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How to Build a Magnetic Brand that Sells Itself ft. Seth Godin

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Core Theme

The core theme of this content is that effective marketing and brand building are not about chasing vanity metrics or broad reach, but about creating genuine value, building trust, and crafting a compelling story that resonates deeply with a specific, "smallest viable audience."

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So attention has always been critically

important and it has a best friend named

trust. So you're measuring the wrong thing.

thing.

>> That's Seth Goden, one of the most

influential marketers of our time and 21

time best-selling author. He's been

teaching people how to stand out, build

trust, and create change for over three decades.

decades.

>> Marketing is telling a true story to

people who want to hear it and creating

a story that people want to spread. In

this episode, Seth shares why most

brands are chasing metrics that don't

matter, how to build something so

remarkable that people talk about it

over time, and how the size of your

audience is completely irrelevant.

>> If you were honest with yourself, would

you buy what you make? Would you listen

to what you do? If you didn't know you,

>> we dive into the smallest viable

audience, the real purpose of marketing,

>> and why if people aren't buying, the

problem isn't them, it's your story.

>> Find the 10 perfect people. If it

doesn't work for them, make something

better. If it does work for them,

perhaps they'll tell the others. If they

tell the others, you grow.

>> This isn't about short-term hacks.

>> This is the blueprint for building an

audience that actually buys. Let's go.

>> So, Seth, you've been at the center of

marketing for decades now, and we really

want to understand when it comes down to

it, when you boil it down, what makes

somebody buy versus not?

>> I don't think many people understand

what marketing is. It's not hustle or

hype or pushing something out there.

It's not getting the word out. Marketing

is telling a true story to people who

want to hear it and creating a story

that people want to spread. If you

create enough value, you'll be fine. And

it's so easy to get addicted to the

endless social media hustle. Likes

doesn't mean anyone likes you. Friends

doesn't mean they're your friend. And

followers doesn't mean they're following

you. What you have to do is figure out

how to matter.

>> I love that. I I just recently listened

to Alex or Mosie on Direo yesterday and

they were talking about how, you know,

you have these people right now that

have 50 million followers, 20 million

followers, all the likes, all the

comments, but nothing is converting for

them. Why do you think that is? And why

can someone that has a much smaller

audience actually get someone to

transact with them? Like what do you

think is the psychology behind that?

You've you've been studying it for so

many years.

>> Well, what does it even mean to have an

audience? Are you are you stealing

attention? Are you a clown putting on a

sideshow? Because a clown can get a lot

of attention, but there aren't very many

people in the clown fan club. So,

the size of the audience is completely

irrelevant. It's like asking how many

words per minute you can type if you're

hiring a programmer. It doesn't matter.

What matters is, would we miss you if

you were gone? Are you offering us

status or affiliation? Is there tension

associated with the thing you're

offering? And I don't want to miss out

because if all you're doing is talking

and creating controversy and having

fights with people and you want to

collect a crowd, I can't stop you from

doing that. But it's no way to make a living.

living.

>> Would you say though that in today's day

and age like attention is a form of

currency and super important are what

you're saying is that attention isn't

everything. You just need to worry about

being as remarkable as possible. So

attention has always been critically

important and it has a best friend named

trust and it is possible to get

attention without trust

um but it's not worth anything. It is

possible to get trust without a lot of

attention that's worth a ton. So you're

measuring the wrong thing. And the idea

of remarkable doesn't mean a gimmick. It

doesn't mean a hustle. It means worth

making a remark about.

So, this show has a lot of people

watching and listening to it. Did they

find out about it because you called

them up at home and said, "Uh, you got

to watch my show." I don't think so.

Most of the people who are listening

have never met the two of you. They

heard about it from someone who else

heard about it who told them about it.

And people spread the idea not because

it's a cataclysm and a joke. They spread

the idea because it will make them look

good if they introduce their friends to

what you're doing. That's what

remarkable means. Worth making a remark

about. Break down for me the difference

between marketing advertising because I

think it gets thrown around a lot and

people just don't have a concrete

definition for the two of these. Can you

go into it really quickly for us?

>> So, if you saw Madman in the old days,

that's an advertising agency. And in the

60s, they were the same, marketing and

advertising. If you had a marketing

budget, it was your ad budget. What

advertising is is spending money to take

people's attention. And if you do it in

a way that makes you a profit, you get

to do it again. So Proctor and Gamble

can spend billions of dollars a year on advertising.

advertising.

Marketing in the post TV world is

totally different because it doesn't

cost cash to a media company. It costs

effort to make something people want to

talk about. So what's Banksy's

advertising budget? Zero.

But his marketing budget, meaning how

much time does Banksy spend imagining

the next thing he's going to create is

huge. So if you're being lazy and

working on a funnel and counting your

clicks and trying to get the word out

there, you're getting exactly what you

deserve. But if you're spending your time

time

putting on an honest show that people

want to see and they want to engage with

and they want to be part of, that's hard

work. That's a useful way to spend your

time. Going back to I guess the podcast

example, I agree that we have a show

that people are talking about and

spreading the word about,

but distribution I feel like is also

important and like staying consistent on

posting content and getting the word out

about our show is also important and I

think that's a big reason why our show

has grown. So, what would you say to

that when it comes to I agree that being

remarkable is having a product that

somebody wants to talk about, but when

it comes to today's day and age where

marketing on social media is like really

important to grow as a business, what

would you say to that?

>> Well, I think first I'm going to call

you out a little bit cuz twice you said

in today's day and age, it's not different.

different. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> It's just easy to make an excuse out of

it. I have to do this because Facebook

gives me no choice. I have to spend all

my time answering my DMs because in

today's day day and age it's the only

way. Well, actually not. No one even

knows Banksy's name. Banksy doesn't seem

to have any problems, right? So, no, you

could go work for free for Mark

Zuckerberg. You could go work for free

for for Tim or anybody else, hustling on

their platform, doing all the things

they say for you to do. No one's ever

gotten ahead doing that. Mr. Beast isn't

Mr. Beast because Mr. beast is better at

posting regularly on YouTube than other

people, right? There's a million people

who are following those playbooks and a

hundred of them win the lottery. So, I

don't believe that following the pattern

of people who might have had better

timing than you or might have had a

better break than you is the way to

catch up with them. It's not. What you

need to do is say, "Can I make an

episode as good as Starly Klein's

episode three of Mystery Show, a podcast

that she recorded nine years ago?"

Because if you can make an episode that

good, people will be talking about you

in nine years.

And what it means to be good is not that

you have a shouting match with Elon

Musk. What it means to be good is you

did something that actually mattered.

>> That is so interesting. It's such a

different way of of thinking about, you

know, where where people should be

putting their time and attention because

I think a lot of the the gurus or the

people that are big in the space right

now are screaming at you to be posting

so consistently on social and it it's

like a it's a running match to fall off

like the end of this cliff almost

instead of really focusing on your

product being spectacular

going forward for like the brands that

might be listening to our show right

now. Maybe they're in this like 1 to 5

million range and they're doing good

work, right? They're they have a product

that works, but they might not be

exceptional and they might have like one

thing of the exceptional brand in their

space. What advice do you have for them

from a more marketing standpoint that

could help them exceed and kind of go to

this next level?

>> Well, it helps to start by admitting

that you're just not that good yet. >> Okay?

>> Okay?

>> Right? that it's possible that you're a

$3 million brand that's already good

enough to be a $300 million brand, but

it's more likely that you're a $3

million brand that through the force of

your will got from half a million to

three million but is running out of

steam because you just can't manually

take it to the next level. That

if you were honest with yourself, would

you buy what you make?

Would you listen to what you do? if you

didn't know you, you know. So, when you

look at the sad people who do MLM and

are hustling their cousins and their

mother-in-law to buy some stuff from

them, well, that's not selling. That's

just leveraging your relatives that what

you want. You know, if if you take a

look at Supreme,

there's a $120 t-shirt. There's a line

out the door to buy this shirt. And I

saw that line and everyone in that line

was already wearing a shirt.

So they weren't selling clothing to

people who were naked. They were selling

something else. And Supreme isn't a $3

million brand. It's probably a $300

million brand because they decided to

stand for something. It doesn't mean

that the cotton in their t-shirt is

better than the cotton in my t-shirt.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm

saying they have a story that's worth

paying for.

And in a double blind study, people

probably couldn't tell it apart. But

we're not double blind. What we buy is

the story. We buy the way it makes us

feel to add that tincture to our morning

shake. Right? If the tincture had

nothing in it but water, it probably

would work just as well because the

placebo is what works and it's worth

paying for. Placeos are great. So if you

got a2 million $3 million brand, I would

ask you the following question.

How many new customers did you get

yesterday as a result of a direct

referral from one of your existing customers?

customers?

And if the answer is I don't know, not

that many, then you got to make a better

story and you got to make a better

product. How can a business track that?

What are like some actual ways that

besides a is it maybe having a form on

their website or just straight up asking

their customers? Is there is there a way

that you can track that?

>> Okay. So, if you're a two or three

million dollar brand, you're only seeing

a few new customers every day. So, don't

act like Microsoft. Just pick up the

phone and call people. Write them a

note. Right? That CDB, which my friend

Derek Civers built into a multi

multi-million dollar company, you can go

Google what the email you got when you

became a customer of CDB was like. That

email did not fit any playbook. that

email was worth however many millions of

dollars it was worth when he sold the

company because he was a a real person

running an actual business and people

are stunned. You know, when I got into

business school, the head of admissions

called me on the phone and I was like,

"Oh my god, I can't believe." And then I

realized, well, only 200 people got in.

It's not that hard for her to call 200

people. So, she did. Just talk to your

customers. They'll talk to you. I feel

like everybody's so focused on growing

and scaling so fast that you can learn

so much about your business by just

asking yourself a few questions and then

reaching out to your existing customers.

I think that's something that people

should do a lot more of.

>> Especially a hell of a lot easier when

you have 10 of them.

>> You can really I mean you can really

learn a ton about why they bought your

product. It's a lot easier. Wow. Yeah,

that is so it's so interesting. Has the

framework changed if you were to go

consult back in the day for these

multi-million dollar brands or versus

like the really teenytiny brands maybe

when you first started that you would

talk to. What has stayed the exact same

and what are a few of the things that

have changed along the way? I know you

mentioned earlier like a lot of the

stuff is still the same. It's like just

maybe people are repackaging it or

saying it differently.

>> Yeah. So, I've never done any

consulting. Sometimes I give free advice

to people I care about.

>> Um and I've given a lot of speeches

around the world. So, I've hung out with

people who spend a lot of money on

advertising and marketing. The thing

that was true

30 or 40 years ago that isn't true now

is there were a lot of people who spent

all their time thinking about what

should be in their ads.

And that because this the length of a

campaign is so short now, they don't

have all year. Like my old boss spent 18

months on a team that redesigned the

packaging for Lays potato chips. That's

all they did for a year and a half. And

after they were done, you couldn't even

tell they had done anything. But because

in those days it was worth it. You only

redid the packaging every five or 10

years. So now people are insanely

distracted by false proxies. A false

proxy is a number that's easy to measure

and worthless.

And in hiring, a false proxy is

something like, um, do you look like me?

Did you go to school where I went to

school? It there's no evidence that that

has anything to do with you doing a good

job. And a false proxy online is all the

numbers that social media companies make

easy for you to find. Every one of those

numbers is irrelevant. Right? I don't

use Twitter or LinkedIn or Facebook

actively. Zero. I don't know what my

numbers are. It doesn't matter. I don't

read my Amazon reviews. It doesn't

matter. What matters is did I change

someone enough that they want to talk to

somebody else so it will raise their

status or enable them to affiliate with

somebody. So, you know, trivial small

business example, there's a a little

microorganism called cooji. It's a spore

that grows on the outside of rice. And

you can use cooji in cooking as a

ferment. and you can make all sorts of

cool sauces and things with it. So, I

bought some koji from one of the only US

cooji manufacturers and he sent me a

nice note by hand inside the box. He

didn't do that so I would blog about

him, but I blogged about him because

that's what I do. And so, I in that one

act sold a lot of cooji. And then a few

weeks later, he sent all of his

customers, as far as I can tell, a

little bag of his new Koji just to see

what we thought about it with a note

saying, "What do you think about this?"

And how many people have I told about

Cooji? A lot of people. I'm sort of a

Cooji boore. Because I find this

fascinating. It raises my status as a

cutting edge kind of cook person and

also makes my friends feel good, some of

whom have gone on to buy Koji. That's a

movement. That's not You could pick

anyone and we're anyone. That's what

most people in the DTC business say. You

need dog food. We have dog food. Yeah,

there are lots of people have dog food.

I don't need to pay attention to you

just because it's important to you. What

is the movement that we're here to

create? It doesn't have to be I'm going

to save the world. Doesn't have to be

I'm going to save the children. It could

be something a little bit more selfish

than that. But it's still a movement in

that you are helping people get to where

they want to go.

>> Seth is just spitting so much game.

>> He's pretty knowledgeable.

>> God, he really is. I got to talk to him

real quick, though, about motion array

cuz there's a really high chance that

someone listening, they might need great

sound effects or even great music

>> or graphics.

>> Or graphics, lower thirds.

>> Come on.

>> I mean, this is this is an episode of a

thought leader. And I feel like a

thought leader, you know, if you're a

thought leader out there listening, you

probably do social content. And we need

you guys to have great assets for your

videos. It's the top link down in the description.

description.

>> If you want to market your product or

services or personal brand better,

assets is the way that's going to take

your content and make it remarkable.

>> I bet your editor's pissed that they

don't have the stuff that's in the top

link down in the description because I

mean, I've seen your stuff. I know that

there's no music behind it.

>> They could use Motion Array.

>> I know you could. And that's why I'm

telling you about it. It's the top link.

You get two months for free if you use

our code. It also helps out The Rock.

So, go check them out. Check them out at

Motion Ray. Let's go.

>> I can hear people hearing your answer

and saying or thinking to themselves,

Seth, that's easy for you to say, you've

been doing this for decades. You've

grown your personal brand. You you've

done it a million talks. Like, you have

decades of experience. I'm kind of just

starting out. How can I not focus on

those things that you're telling me not

to focus on? So, to those people, what

would you say?

>> Well, I would say two things. First of

all, I'm not particularly wellnown. I've

sold uh 21 bestsellers in a row, but not

one of them, not one has reached more

than 1% of the US population. So, to a

rounding error, my market share is zero.

And I like it like that. Number two,

when I started my blog, I only had 30

readers. And I didn't once do any

promotion to get to the scale that I

have now, right? So when I started out,

no one knew who I was and I even had a

little bit of hair. So, but yeah, I have

enormous privilege, an enormous

advantage. And there are things I get

away with that most people can't because

I am trusted, not because I am known.

And what I say is super simple. Can you

find 10 people who trust you? If there

are if there are not 10 people who trust

you, you got big problems. But if there

are 10 people who trust you, can you

bring them your idea? Send them your

novel in PDF form something.

And after you do that, do they tell the

others? If they don't tell the others,

you got to make something better. If

they do tell the others, you're on to

something. So the book that made my

career after permission marketing was

this one. I had been kicked out of the

book industry because I had done a book

that was a total failure. So I had no

publisher. I did have a column and fast

company and I wrote about this book.

There's it's inside the milk carton. And

I said if you want a free copy, send me

five bucks and I'll mail it to you. I

only have 10,000.

So I sold 5,000 of them and I broke

even. So that's only 5,000 people. And

then I did nothing else to promote it

and it ended up selling millions of

copies. Is it because it's the best book

ever written? No. But it's easy to talk

about. It makes your life better if your

boss knows that you are reading Purple Cow.

Cow.

That's what I did. I wrote a book so

that your life would get better if you

told the others.

>> Take me back to getting kicked out of

the publishing industry and what that

moment was like for you cuz you knew you

had something that was great. Like I

mean you put it out to the world knowing

like I put a ton of work into this. This

is an awesome product. I think it's

going to lead to the success of

someone's life. And I'm sure a lot of us

that are listening to this or even us

like we put out an episode and it bombs

and I'm like this was an amazing piece

of advice like this person has done so

much in business but it didn't

translate. What was the conversations

like with yourself when you were at a

place where you were faced with that

rejection? You know, I've been lucky

enough along the way to stumble into

some very powerful and rich and famous

people. And

until very recently, I was sure that if

I could just pitch that person who

seemed to be in charge, it would open

the door. So, I went running with Steve

Casease when he ran AOL and it was the

most important site on the internet. And

I go down this long list of CEOs and

people who I would pitch an idea to and

they would say, "Sure, talk to this

person." And it never works that the

head of the biggest thing, the

well-known brand, they have way less

power than you think. So what had

happened in my career, I've been a book

packager for over a decade. He did 120

books, books about gardening and uh all

manner of stuff. And then I became an

author author and permission marketing

was a bestseller. So on the strength of

that I decided to write the book I'd

always wanted to write which was with a

forward by Charles Darwin and it was

about evolution in business and

the way book publishers tell you they're

excited is they give you an advance

money you don't have to send back to say

we want to publish this don't let

anybody else publish it. So I finally

had my big advance. I finally had the

attention of the people who were big

shots at Simon and Schustster. I'm like,

this is going to be the big thing.

And uh that was three weeks before 911

and that was heartbreaking for an

enormous number of people and and a

trauma and a tragedy, but also meant no

books got sold in the next six months.

So the book flopped was I think we ended

up selling 17,000 copies. And so I had a

black mark next to my name like don't

work with this guy anymore. So no one

even knew about the book Purple Cow. Um,

I just knew that people in publishing

had had enough of me. And it was the

greatest thing that could have happened

because instead of worrying about

pleasing an editor who doesn't even like

business books in New York City, I could

worry about pleasing my readers.

And never again did I worry about the

editors. I was like, if I have readers,

everything else will take care of

itself. And that was the big shift in my head.

head.

>> Yeah. I feel like sometimes you got to

uh you turn a negative into a positive

and at the time you probably were pretty

bummed out, but now looking back you're

like it's actually the greatest thing

that could have happened to me.

>> Explain it.

>> Yeah. Go ahead.

>> Oh, explain to us what the Purple Cow

book like that thesis because I think so

many people will find that extremely

useful in anything that they're doing

whether it's social, their brand, all

the above. So could you explain that to

us briefly? The reason I wrote a book is

because uh I had a dear friend who owned

the most important bakery in Paris and

um he was killed in a helicopter crash

and I wanted to dedicate a book to him

but I didn't have a book so I wrote a

book so I could dedicated to Lionel and

the book is sort of about what he built

because a bakery in Paris by law is

flour, water, salt. and starter. That's

all you get to use. Everyone's got the

same. So, how do you build a bakery that

has a line around the corner? How do you

build a bakery that twothirds of the top

restaurants in Paris serve this stuff?

How do you build a bakery that now 20

years later, his daughter is still

killing it? And the answer is you tell a

story and you live a story that's worth

talking about. So that when I'm there,

there are people who flown in from Japan

to buy four loaves of bread and then fly

home because there's something about all

the pieces he and his family have put

together that make it remarkable. So,

the story in the book is not true. And

it's about me uh driving with a family

through a pastor in uh rural France and

my kids for 17 hours have been making a

commotion and noise. And my wife has

been asleep because she has

transportation narcolepsy unless there's

a good air pl on the plane. And we are

driving through this pasture and I

notice it's quiet in the back seat. My

kids, my 5-year-old and seven-year-old,

are finally falling asleep. And I look

in the back seat. They're not asleep.

They're staring out the window at a cow

for about 3 seconds. Cuz cows are

boring. Cows are all the same. You can

say anything you want about a cow.

They're the same. And then I said, "But

what if it had been a purple cow? If it

had been a purple cow, I would have

pulled over and my wife would have woken

up. She would have gotten out her phone

to take pictures of the cow so she could

show her friends back home. My kids

would have ignored me as usual, opened

the door, run across the street, hopped

over the fence, and rubbed the cow so

that they could go to show and tell in

two weeks and tell everyone that they

had touched a purple cow. So, it's not a

gimmick. It's just everyone's life would

get better if they could talk about the

purple cow. So, we don't need more dog

food or razors or uh, you know,

over-the-counter medication. What we

need is something to talk about. We need

connection. We need meaning. We need a

chance to get to where we're going.

That's why you should start a small

business, not to be a junior version of

Hines Ketchup.

>> When it comes to

>> That was a rant. Sorry.

>> No, I I loved it. Now, when it comes to

personal brand versus a, you know, uh,

an actual product, a store like the cafe

or the bakery,

do the principles just still stay the

same or is there anything different that

you tell someone who's trying to build

maybe a brickandmortar or an actual

physical product versus building a

personal brand and trying to monetize

that personal brand through digital

products or something

>> or speaking or something like that.

>> Yeah. So what do you think a brand is?

Can you define that for me?

>> I would say a brand is the gut feeling

somebody gets about you or your product

when they come across uh when they come

across you in person or they come across

you online.

>> I I'd second that.

>> Yeah, I agree with that. I think we

should differentiate between a brand and

a logo cuz when a business or a person

says, "I'm rebranding," what they really

mean is, "I'm reloing, putting on a new

outfit." I'm redoing the colors. I'm

doing the color new colors.

>> Yeah, exactly. That's so true.

>> So, Hyatt Hyatt has a logo. Nike has a

brand because if Nike opened a hotel,

you know exactly what it would be like

to stay there. But if Hyatt came out

with sneakers, you have no clue what

they would be like. So, as a result,

what we think of when we think of a

brand is a promise, an expectation. What

do I expect from your next post? What do

I expect from your next episode? Because

if the next episode of this podcast

included an interview with two doulamer

playing people who raise goats, folks

would be very confused because that's

not your brand. That's not part of your

promise. So the Pulen

bakery brand is very clear and if they

decided to open a sandwich shop, we know

just what it would be like.

A personal brand is either I have an

expectation and a trust for you or I

don't. And it might be that my

expectation is you spout nonsense and

you know are annoying. That's a brand.

You could change it, but it would take a

while. So I don't think there's any

difference whatsoever between a personal

brand and a business brand. And so if we

think about how do you make a living as

a speaker,

you don't do it by giving slightly bit

better talks than other people who give talks

talks

because that's not what speakers get

rewarded for. The the market for speakers

speakers

who do that for free is large. You can

definitely give a lot of speeches for

free if you give pretty good speeches.

But if you want to get paid a lot to

give a speech, it's not because you give

a pretty good speech. It's because the

people in the audience when they hear

you're about to give a speech are

thrilled that the conference organizer

hired you. So it's about your

reputation. It's about the expectation.

It's about all those pieces. So, the

single best way to make a living as a

professional speaker is to be successful

enough at something else that you don't

need to make a living as a professional speaker.

speaker.

>> Real quick, we want to talk to our

photographer and videographer listeners.

If that's not you, skip forward a little

bit. But this Sunday, we're hosting a

live training. What are we doing?

>> We're going to break down how you can

charge more for your work and how to

position yourself to start landing more

deals and stop getting ghosted by these

potential new clients.

>> Dude, I don't want you guys going after

the penny pinchers anymore. I want you

making more bread with your camera. We

want to teach you guys really how it's

possible to turn your creative passion

into a full-time career as a creative.

That's exactly what me and Braden have

done and we're going to walk you through

the exact 10step framework to do that

this Sunday.

>> It's literally 25 bucks. It's the second

link in the description. I hope you join

us. It'll be recorded and it'll be

available for 24 hours. So, go check

that out. Let's keep going. Can you talk

to me a little bit about something we

chatted about in the very beginning and

it was like tension and we talked a

little bit about scarcity when like

building out our products and thinking

about the strategy behind it. Where does

tension come into play? Is that the

first thing you think about or is it

like hey is it you know this is where

we're going to be delivering the stuff.

It's we think this group hangs out on

Facebook, Instagram and Tik Tok and then

does it go to the tension side of

things? Like what is the order of

operations for for you?

>> So what's tension? Tension isn't stress.

Stress is bad. Stress is wanting two

things at the same time and you can't

have both.

Tension is this might not work. I might

get left behind. They're going to sell

out. What will my friends think? These

are This is the only reason that standup

comedy works. If the comic blurts out

the punchline before she tells the joke,

it's not funny because there's no

tension. So, the tension at Patagonia is

different than the tension at some

off-brand clothing company. At the

off-brand clothing company, it's you

need clothes, we have clothes. They're

cheaper than those people. There's no

tension there. And that's fine because

if I don't care, that's what I should buy.

buy.

But when a clothing designer comes out

with something that's edgy that you

could wear to the Met Gala, you're

thinking, maybe I'll look like an idiot,

but maybe people will love it. There's

tension, right? If it's, "Oh, I wonder

if other people are going to be wearing

it. Would that be good or would it be

bad?" That's tension. So, if we want

change to happen,

we have to willingly inflict tension,

do it as a service. So, if Taylor is

doing a concert,

people run to get tickets because they

know the tickets won't be there

tomorrow. There's tension. So the

conversation begins at any marketer who

matters not with oh the sample audience

is on Tik Tok. I want to know what's the

change you seek to make. Who are you

trying to change and what is the change

you seek to make?

And then we have to create a narrative

around that change that some people will

eagerly embrace and other people will

eagerly run away from because if it's

for everyone, it's not for anybody.

We're looking for the smallest viable

audience and delivering to them what

they want.

>> What does the smallest viable audience

mean? Is that going is that thinking

about, you know, this is my this is my

ideal person. This is Mike. He's 35. He

works in at the railroad and we want to

sell him these railroad pants and he's,

you know, this is the things that he

does. Like, can you explain that to our

group, the Smiseball?

>> Yeah, you're you're you're really close.

I don't care so much about demographics.

>> I care a lot about psychoraphics. Okay,

>> this is Mike. He believes he's a little

overweight, but that if he had a better

pair of pants, women would think he's

more attractive. This is Mike. Mike

regularly daydreams about possibility.

This is Mike. Mike has money to spend,

but only on things he's sure going to

make a difference. Most people don't fit

that definition. >> Okay,

>> Okay,

>> fine. Right. So, if you go to an Hermes

store and look at a Birkin bag and you

say, "What? This is what? $30,000.

They don't try to justify it by telling

you that the cow was named Trudy and

blah blah blah. They just say, "Oh, you

want to go to that store seven doors

down. Thanks for stopping by." So, if

you're not regularly sending people to

the competition, you don't care about

the smallest viable audience.

>> Yeah. Hermes just calls you broke and

says, "This is you can go to Walmart

down the street."

>> Oh, you must who let who let him in?

Yeah. How'd you get through the door?

Have you something that I noticed a lot

of people that are in the clothing

industry right now, they're struggling

with the dupes on Amazon. So like people

are just choosing like the lowest cost

thing. And maybe that's because the

economy that we're in. Maybe it's

because of a lot of different factors.

But I'm noticing it more and more. If I

go on Amazon and let's say say you're

looking for like a Lululemon shirt and

the damn exact same Llemon shirt is on

there with the same photo, which should

be illegal, but it's on there and people

are choosing for that option. Is is

their brand just not strong enough,

would you say? Like, to to keep people

wanting to just spend that higher number

and have that status symbol of the

little Lululemon logo. When you choose

your customers, you choose your future.

When you choose your competition, you

choose your future. And when you choose

your marketplace, you choose your

future. So

if you show up on a crowded corner where

everybody's selling stolen goods on

bridge tables and you say, "No, no,

mine's really much better. It's

$30,000." You're not going to sell any.

You made the choice to set up on that

street corner.

So Lululemon, my friend Steph Corker

helped build that company. Lululemon did

some brilliant, brilliant marketing and

business decisions. But that doesn't

mean they're entitled to charge what

they charge to every single human on the

planet. It doesn't last forever. The

story they told, the change they seek to

make, they got all the yoga moms, right?

So now, if they want to go to the next

circle, they've got some challenges. And

we can't as marketers be entitled. We

have to be empathic. We have to say,

"Yeah, you're right. If I were in your

shoes, if I had the income you have and

the story I told myself about my income

that you were telling yourself, there's

no way in the world I would buy

Lululemon. Of course, I'd buy this

knockoff. It's the right thing for them

to do. Everyone does the right thing for

them to do if they are informed."

And so the challenge you have is how do

you inform people so that based on who

they are and what they believe and what

they see, they will make the choice that

you're hoping they will make. But it's

not going to happen because you tell

them they're wrong.

>> So are you saying that the people that

would buy the product on Amazon aren't

really your audience anyways that you're

trying to attract? I'm saying that

when you show up with the story you've got,

got,

people are going to make a choice. And

if they're making a choice that isn't

the choice you want them to make,

there's nothing wrong with them. There's

something wrong with your story.

>> I see. And then I just want to take it

back to what you were saying about the

smallest viable audience. Is it possible

to go too narrow? Is that ever a scenario?

scenario?

>> Depends on what you want, right? So if

you want to write a deeply literary

novel that is depressing and elliptical

and intellectual,

please don't be disappointed that it

doesn't sell 10 million copies.

>> You can't have both.

And if you can find the 5,000 people who

say this novel changed me, I think you

should be happy and say that's enough

because it matched the genre. It matched

the possibility. Right? Don't go build a

giant factory and hire thousands of

people to turn out these novels and then

be disappointed that you didn't sell 10

million. So, in general,

my theory is this. Find the 10 perfect people.

people.

If it doesn't work for them, make

something better. If it does work for

them, perhaps they'll tell the others.

If they tell the others, you grow. And

some things people don't want to talk

about. They don't want to talk about the

fact that they signed up for pren

cremation and that they're going to save

their family all this money a thousand

years from now when they're dead, right?

You're just going to have a lot of

trouble turning that into a purple cow

because people don't want to talk about

it. On the other hand, there are lots of

things that people do want to talk

about. One of the my favorite examples,

I am too old to tell you the name of the

brand, but you guys will know. There are

these people who make the little stars

for folks with zits to put on their face.

face.

>> It's amazing. You see those out in

public now all the time. I think when we

were in elementary school

>> would have been great.

>> No, it would have been great, but I

think that people at that time maybe

wouldn't have wouldn't have adopted it.

I feel like it became like a thing because

because

>> I feel like there was this like I don't

give a [ __ ] mentality of like if it's on

my Yeah, I have a pimple. Like everyone

has pimples, you know?

>> Yeah. It was brilliant. Absolutely

brilliant. And where you get that lesson

is from Alcoholics Anonymous.

>> First, it's not anonymous. Nobody knows

who's in charge. They have no ad

campaign. But everyone knows what

Alcoholics Anonymous is. And how do we

know? We know because an alcoholic told

us. And so what they did was they

created a status loop for people who

needed help, who wanted to offer help in

return. And people talked about it. So

when you find this thing that's causing

some people shame and you can figure out

how to build a story around it that can

turn it into pride and affirmation, you

can build a whole brand around that.

>> If someone's listening to this episode

and they have a brand and they're

thinking to themselves, man, I don't

really have any strategy when it comes

to marketing. I'm kind of just winging

it. I'm doing it the same way I've been

doing it for the past decade. It's

worked, but maybe I see bigger things

for me. What would you say are those few

key questions they should ask themselves

or how can they go about auditing the

way they're running their business to

then start implementing a strategy when

it comes to marketing?

>> Yeah, it's a great question. That's what

my last book is about. That's why I

called it this is strategy and I made a

Udemy course too. The I and there are no

secrets here. There are four big ideas.

Time, systems, games, and empathy. Time

because tomorrow is different than

today. What are you doing today that

tomorrow will thank you for as opposed

to racing around to do today's

checklist? Systems, which we could talk

about for four hours, is the invisible

conspiracy that runs everything. Like

the TV industrial complex and the

wedding industrial complex and the

college industrial complex. If you got a

six-year-old and they bring home a

report card, their first report card

ever, do you give them feedback on their

grades? Why? They're six,

right? You give them feedback on their

grades because you've been sucked into

the college industrial complex and

you're already grooming them to get into

Harvard and we think that's normal, but

it's not games because any situation

where there's humans and scarcity is a

game. So if you want to build a direct

to consumer razor business, you got to

compete with Gillette and Schick and

Harry's. If you do this, what are they

going to do? It's a game. And the last

one is empathy, which is the people you

seek to serve. what do they believe?

Because they don't care what you believe

one bit, but they care a lot about what

they believe. And if you can get clear

about that, then you can be of service.

Have you always looked at everything you

do as a game or is that something that

came later on? Because I I find myself

heavily gamifying like everything that I

do. Otherwise, I can't even get myself

to do stuff. I'm like, dude, if you go

to the gym 5 days this week, I don't

know. I'll make a a weird award up that

I get, but like I get get a gold noodle

star and maybe we can go get ice cream.

But, you know, and I think that that's

really like helped me and I I feel like there

there

>> there's always a game within the game as

well. I'd love for you to tell us a

little bit more about that principle.

>> Okay. So, board games are different than games.

games. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> And Monopoly is a stupid game, but board games,

games,

we use words like gify and stuff. That's

not what I'm talking about. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Um, I started thinking this way when I

was 12. My dad was my hockey coach and

one of the drills, I was the scrawny

little kid, easily bullied. One of the

drills was there'd be two people on the

little red circle and he'd throw the

puck in the corner and one person would

have to go and take it that way and one

person would have to go and take it that

way. And I realized that if I got there

a half a step slower than the other

person, I could knock them into the

boards instead of them knocking me into

the boards. And so I would play the game

of how and it took them like two weeks

for them to realize what I was doing. So

then they started slowing down and

finally my dad said I had to stop doing

that. But the point is that's a game and

it's a game to get into business school

and it's a game to make a sale and it's

a game to fix climate change because

these are really important issues. But

we have players and we have rules and we

have scarcity and we have strategies. So

you don't have to take it personally

when you fail. You can just say, "I made

the wrong moves." That doesn't mean

you're a bad person, right? I didn't get

into Harvard. How come I I'm an idiot.

No, it's not cuz you're an idiot. It's

cuz you didn't play the game the way the

other people played the game. They saw a

system that you didn't see and that's

how they got in.

>> Earlier in this conversation, you

brought up trust. And a word that is

often associated with trust is being

authentic online. But I know that you

claim that being authentic is [ __ ] [ __ ]

[ __ ]

and you would rather be consistent. And

I would love to talk about this because

I just I would love to hear you talk

about it and then I'd love to have some

discourse a little bit back and forth

because I I see where you're coming

from, but I I also not that I disagree,

but I'm just curious to hear your take

and then I'd love to talk a little bit

about it.

>> It's such a trap. I don't know why it's

stuck around for so long. If you're

truly authentic and you get rejected,

you've been actually rejected. If you're

truly authentic and you don't feel like

it, then you shouldn't do it. If you are

acting like a jerk and you say, "Well, I

was just being authentic." The fact is

you were still acting like a jerk. So,

what we want in every interaction except

from a Kardashian is consistency, not authenticity.

authenticity.

And consistency is make a promise and

keep it. That we want Coca-Cola to be

consistently Coca-Cola. And we want our

chiropractor to be consistently our

chiropractor. And if we have surgery, we

don't want to have bad surgery because

the person was authentically in a bad

mood. Come on. We want a professional.

And professionals are consistent. So, if

you think I talk to people in my life

like I'm talking to you all the time

like this, that's crazy. I am playing

the role of Seth Goden, the author,

today. That's my job. I am being

consistent at that. We're not having a

conversation here about whether I have a

little scrape on my foot because I

slipped on something. That would be me

whining, but that's not the consistent

Seth Goden you wanted to hear from. I

want to go a little bit deeper on this

and I kind of want to go the route of

personal brand because

>> like with the era of AI that's at our

fingertips. We were talking about this

before and we're saying I feel like why

people gravitate towards our show is

because we are so ourselves on here like

you get the you meet me in person you're

going to be yes Ste if I go and hang out

with my mom am I going to talk to her

about business and all this stuff?

Probably not. like we're going to have a

different level of conversation. But I

think right here we really do put our

best foot forward to be ourselves. And I

think it's why

>> No, no, no. You put your best foot

forward and good for you. There is an alignment

alignment

>> between who you usually are, okay,

>> and the brand you chose to have,

>> right? So what I got a phone call 20

years ago. Would I please audition to be

one of the judges on the launch of Shark

Tank in the United States?

And I had seen the British thing. I

said, "Oh, you want me to be the nasty

judge?" And they were like, "Yeah."

Well, they picked a different bald guy

because I didn't show up. And cuz I

would have broken myself if I had to be

consistently the nasty one cuz it's not

who I am. So yes, please build a

personal brand that rhymes with who you

are comfortable being. I'm not saying

you should be a fraud. It's too hard

>> to consistently be a fraud.

>> I'm saying you should pick a brand where

you can show up consistently in a way

that rhymes with who you want to be, but

you're not allowed to phone it in or be

a jerk and claim it's cuz you were being authentic.

authentic.

>> Totally. I totally understand what

you're saying.

>> Yeah. I guess my mind was like if you're

um you know if you preach uh health and

wellness and positivity,

my mind was going to oh, you can't share

that you're having a bad day or you

missed a workout or you ate pizza. Um

that's kind of where my mind initially

went to. But I totally understand.

>> I'm saying I'm sorry to interrupt, but

I'm saying something really different

than that. that Tony Robbins can consistently

consistently

talk about the times he hasn't been the

pinup child for any of his things.

That's part of the brand. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Right. And so, yes, we're all

hypocrites. We shouldn't hide all of our hypocrisy,

hypocrisy,

>> but we should lean into the parts that

we can maintain over time.

>> Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Thank you

for clarifying that. I I have so many

more, but I want to get you out of here

in the respect.

>> Yeah, we do want to respect your time.

>> Yeah. So, thank you so much. Seriously,

for for coming to hang out with us

today. It was awesome.

>> An absolute pleasure.

>> The first ever 505 pod post pod debrief.

>> I'm here for it on the couch.

>> I think this couch from what everyone

said, I mean, this this is where we need

to be hanging out.

>> What would you rank this couch on

comfiness level?

>> 94. Yeah,

>> it's up there.

>> Feels nice.

>> And I think that this is what we're

going to strive for as we build out the

new set. >> Totally.

>> Totally.

>> We talked to you guys about this. We're

going to Texas. When you listen to this,

we'll be in Texas,

>> I believe. So,

>> yeah. To to film with the three rocks.

We got Guzman, Heidi Summers, Max

Tuning. It's going to be really hell

>> of a lineup.

>> Really fun lineup. But we need to talk

about this episode.

>> We sure do.

>> Okay. I think it was really interesting

to hear about how a lot of what started

in Seth's career in the very beginning

hasn't changed a ton.

>> No, I think how he thinks about

marketing hasn't changed. just the way

that people get out their message and

promote their product or service has changed.

changed.

>> Yes. And I think something that we've

heard him talk about in TED talks and in

his books is this concept of being

remarkable and in a sea full of crap is

what he was talking about like

everything is so mediocre that what

people are putting out the messages

they're just sharing the same

regurgitated information over and over

again. If you are remarkable, you will

cut through the noise and people will

share your message for you. >> Absolutely.

>> Absolutely.

>> And I mean, I even think about it with

as we were trying to build out our pod,

I was like, Kosis, we weren't remarkable

obviously to start. We were we were

thought we were, but we we were

definitely not remarkable.

>> You talked to Kosis and Fig episode 8.

We had the biggest and best show on the internet.

internet.

>> We were like, this could be this could

be number one. Why are we not topping

the charts?

>> Why are we getting 200 views? It doesn't

make any sense.

>> I think though at the forefront of our

brains as we were making the show was

always though to try to provide you guys

with so much value. Regardless of who it

was that we had on, we were trying to

extract information to then hopefully

help you build your business, enhance

your creativity, and do something that's

going to better your life in some way,

shape, or form. And I think now that's

like that's still working. That's not

like a that's not a new thing. like

people that share great information that

impacts you. Like those are the people

that I talk about. Those are people that

I go share their message and spread

their word for them. I think there's a

book I read a really long time ago. It

was like it's called like Maven or it

maybe was had the topic of this word

Maven and it essentially was people

spreading your word for you and going

out and like you know if I had a great a

great show with you guys or if I had a

great hangout session with the two rocks

I'm going to go out and tell a friend

because I'm like this was so impactful

and I really liked this one part from

this guest or something like that. And

with anything that you do, the people

that are spreading it word of mouth are

your strongest people that you need to

be thinking about and taking care of. I

even think about Blue Stripe and like my

company and the people that come to me

and say, "Hey, we chatted with this

person." There's no sale that has to

happen there. I don't have to sell

ourselves at all. It's like, "Oh, I know

Mike. Mike really liked you guys. Spoke

very highly of you. We want to do work

for you guys." Absolutely. And it's like

there there needs to be no nothing needs

to be said besides the fact of this is

what we do. How can I help you guys? You

know, and it's such a different dynamic

than having to go out and be like, "Oh,

hey, this do you need stuff? Like, can

we help you?" I also think taking it one

step further, every time you guys do a

shoot and you guys bring on people,

it's kind of an audition to work with

you guys again. and the people who are

remarkable at their job and that you

guys enjoy working with, you guys are

going to call them back. And so at level

one, being remarkable, like Seth talked

about, is the best marketing strategy

you can have because even regardless of

how saturated a market is, if something

comes out that is just the best, there's

always room for it. You see content

creators popping up all the time or new

businesses popping up all the time and

their content's just better or their

product's just better and they're

marketed in an interesting way and they

stand out. They break through the noise.

And I think

like you brought up on the podcast, in a

world with AI, the last podcast we did

was about AI and how so much more

content is going to be coming out. I

think at the very

start, at at the very basic level, how

can you be as remarkable as possible?

And you brought up our podcast when we

were first starting out. Our show in our

eyes has improved a lot since we first

started. And I think that it can be

really daunting when you're first starting

starting

>> to think that that remarkable word kind

of freaks you out a little bit. you're

like, "How am I supposed to be number

one or the best out there if I'm just

getting started?" And I want to remind

people listening to this,

you get better as you go. And sometimes

we can let perfection get in the way of

us even starting in the first place.

Every single person, Seth included, or

every every, you know, every business

owner or every creator that you look up

to started somewhere.

>> They were all ass.

>> Exactly. And so, like, we look back at

episode one of the show and it's nowhere

near what it is today. Um, and so don't

let that word remarkable

stop you or scare you from starting in

the first place. Start where you are and

continue to improve every single day and

you can work up to being remarkable. You

can't be afraid to fail. I love that he

shared the story of him getting kicked

out of the publishing industry because

that shows you someone like him who's

had 21 bestsellers has had failures in

his life still. And you might look at

Seth who's been doing it for 30, 40

years, and you kind of put him on a

pedestal, but you have to remind

yourself that, you know, maybe he wasn't

as remarkable as he is today when he was

first starting out, but he started somewhere.

somewhere.

>> I was thinking as you were saying that

about LeBron James's uh company, it's

like strive for greatness. And I think

that's what you got to remind yourself

at the very beginning is you are

striving for greatness and you're trying

to get better every single time. Like I

remember when we first did the show,

that's what we would talk about is like,

"Oh, what if we did uh what if we lit it

like this or what if we had like this

mic setup or what could we do with the

cameras?" And even in my agency when we

do shoots, Reef and I love doing this

after and I read this in a book

somewhere and I've taken it. I don't

remember what their company did, but

after the shoot, we call each other and

we were like, "Wow, what did we [ __ ] up

and what was exceptional?" And like can

we fix any of these things that are

[ __ ] up or some of them we just have

to like deal with that and try to figure

out ways to work around it. And every

time we do a shoot I think we do get

literally like five times better because

there is this review process of talking

about the entire day. What could the

producer have done differently? What

could I have done to know my shots

better or what could you have said to

the talent that maybe made us not flow

or whatever the heck the thing may be.

Having that type of want to get better

just makes everything so much better in

the grand scheme of things. And like

look at how much our show has 10xed with

just overall like everything. I mean now

if you're if you're watching these ones

from Texas like now we have three camera

angles and one of them doesn't shut off

every 30 [ __ ] minutes.

>> Using a ZV1 is not ideal for a long form podcast.

podcast.

>> It is not the vibe and we're trying.

Also, okay, for all my camera people out there,

there,

>> ZVE1, they market it as having the same

sensor as an FX3, and it's [ __ ]

>> You know what that is?

>> Cap. Look at that.

>> Cap, dude.

>> Dude, [ __ ] cap. Okay,

>> Cap City.

>> We've tested it multiple times. The ZV1,

great [ __ ] camera, okay? Does not

produce the same level of image quality

as an FX3. It doesn't.

>> It does not. It doesn't.

>> So, Sony, stop saying that, okay? we

love you, but you're kind of capping.

>> Another thing that he talked about was

how the size of the audience is totally

irrelevant. And we see that with these

huge Tik Tockers or people that, you

know, are really big on short form most

of the time. It doesn't translate to

in-person and it doesn't translate to

YouTube. We see we've seen that time and

time again. Like people want to be on a

long form place whether it's a podcast

whether it's a YouTube channel. They

want you to go over there because we all

know like you guys listening we all know

this. That is where you want your

community to be to be at cuz there's so

much more connection that can develop

over 20 plus minutes rather than 30

seconds. Like people just forget. And

think about I mean when you're scrolling

we're scrolling for like a consistent

period of time. You're not scrolling

you're not being like I'm scrolling for

5 minutes right now. You're just kind of

mindlessly going through there and maybe

you save something, but think about how

much [ __ ] we've all saved. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you go back to it real often? Not

super often, right? Like

>> the amount of recipes I have saved on

TikTok is absurd. I think you're right,

though. I think he brought up the idea

of focusing on false proxies, meaning

you're focusing on the wrong metrics.

So, when it comes to social media,

you're really focused on how many

followers you have or how many likes and

views you have when instead you should

be really focusing on what's the

conversation like in your comments and

are people sharing your stuff, your

content with other people. He brought up

the fact that marketing is creating

conditions for people to spread the word

about your product or service to other

people. Word of mouth. I think in a

digital world where so many of us are on

Instagram and social media in general,

the equivalent to that is the share

button. So if you can create content or

create a product that people want to

share with other people or share on

their story or share in the DMs,

that is in my mind the digital

equivalent of word of mouth marketing. I

think so, too. And we've seen it with

the posts that do well for both of us

and and for the pod. If something gets shares,

shares,

>> we know it's going to go off. We know

it's going to do super well. If if it's

that first 20, 30 minutes and there's

not one share, you know, the thing's not

going to do super well. And then on top

of that, I would argue, okay, me and you

both maybe don't have the most amount of

followers compared to other creators out

there, or our podcast doesn't have as

many subscribers or might not get as

many views as the next podcast out

there. But I would argue that if we do

an in-person event, people are willing

to come out and support us and hang out

with us because of the trust that we've

built and being consistent and keeping

that promise like he talks about over a

consistent and long period of time. And

so that was something that was very

interesting just the trust being built

with your group. And dude, trust is one

of those things that takes 10 years to

build and 10 seconds to lose.

>> Yeah. like you see it time and time

again with either a quick cash grab um

you know during the I'm not even going

to get into it but there there's been a

lot of people that we've noticed in social

social

>> that have had things happen that they've

said or

>> just done one stupid like ridiculously

stupid thing and you're like what what

was going through you guys not have

anyone to talk to about this >> dude

>> dude

>> it's unbelievable

>> yeah it's crazy

>> it's insane

when he brought up or when we brought up

the fact that he believes authenticity

is [ __ ]

>> This was this was this is really interesting.

interesting.

>> So authenticity is [ __ ] and

consistency is more important in his eyes.

eyes. >> Now

>> Now

>> me and Braden were talking before the

pod. I go I'm going to call him out cuz

I think that is ridiculous. I didn't

understand really what he was saying.

Now I have a better understanding and I

believe him to be true.

him saying that he's different online or

when he's like promoting himself or

having a talk. He's

he's a different version of himself.

He's still himself. It's still quote

unquote authentic to him.

>> That's what I was going to say though.

He's still being authentic,

>> but maybe it's just a slightly different

version of him. And what he said in

rebuttal to that is, I'm not telling you

to be a fraud. I'm telling you to be who

you are, who you show up online or in

person, and be that person consistently.

The word for that is constancy.

>> We love this word. Constancy is super

important, which is it means keeping the

promise, staying consistent. Whatever

message you're saying, saying it

consistently over and over over a long

period of time. That's what constencancy

is. And constancy is what builds trust.

And trust is what makes people show up

for you in person and want to buy your products.

products.

>> That is the best I've ever heard you

explain what that word is.

>> Dude, I feel like I'm kind of flowing.

>> I feel like you got that word down,

>> dude. Yeah. I remember I see that word.

I'm like,

>> "What the [ __ ] does constancy mean?"

>> They spelled consistency wrong.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You know what I mean? >> Uh,

>> Uh,

>> what else?

>> What else we got here? Let's see. >> Oh, okay.

>> Oh, okay. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, go.

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, go. >> We were thinking about this. Um,

>> We were thinking about this. Um, obviously you want people to share your

obviously you want people to share your stuff and creating conditions for people

stuff and creating conditions for people to share your stuff. Word of mouth is

to share your stuff. Word of mouth is number one. I I don't think there beats

number one. I I don't think there beats anything nothing's more powerful than

anything nothing's more powerful than somebody you [ __ ] with telling you about

somebody you [ __ ] with telling you about something that they [ __ ] with and you're

something that they [ __ ] with and you're like, "Okay, I got to go check it out."

like, "Okay, I got to go check it out." Whether it's another creator or a

Whether it's another creator or a product,

product, >> clothing product,

>> clothing product, >> absolutely.

>> absolutely. >> I think as a business who has a physical

>> I think as a business who has a physical product, if you're listening to this and

product, if you're listening to this and a business owner, you can create

a business owner, you can create conditions for people to want to share

conditions for people to want to share your product. So, if you have a clothing

your product. So, if you have a clothing brand, what does the package look like

brand, what does the package look like when you send somebody your t-shirt or

when you send somebody your t-shirt or your pants or your shorts? You're

your pants or your shorts? You're sending out a PR package to maybe a

sending out a PR package to maybe a group of influencers or you're doing a

group of influencers or you're doing a pop-up or you're doing a popup event. Do

pop-up or you're doing a popup event. Do you have moments that people can capture

you have moments that people can capture and then want to share on their social

and then want to share on their social media and share your message or product

media and share your message or product for you? And I think yes, you want to be

for you? And I think yes, you want to be remarkable because the the easiest way

remarkable because the the easiest way to have people talk about you is to be

to have people talk about you is to be [ __ ] great, but from a more tactical

[ __ ] great, but from a more tactical standpoint, I think you can create

standpoint, I think you can create moments for yourself as a business to

moments for yourself as a business to have people spread the message for you.

have people spread the message for you. >> I even think about when we had taken a

>> I even think about when we had taken a hiatus, maybe it was after like our

hiatus, maybe it was after like our first season. When we came back, we had

first season. When we came back, we had posted like a graphic and so many people

posted like a graphic and so many people shared that graphic for us of like we're

shared that graphic for us of like we're coming back for season two and tried to

coming back for season two and tried to build up a little bit of hype around us

build up a little bit of hype around us just coming back to the show and you

just coming back to the show and you guys really did help us. And like you

guys really did help us. And like you have no idea how many new people

have no idea how many new people probably saw it and was like, "What the

probably saw it and was like, "What the heck is this?" And maybe they check it

heck is this?" And maybe they check it out, maybe they don't, but at least

out, maybe they don't, but at least we're doing our best to create the

we're doing our best to create the condition for these ideas or our pod to

condition for these ideas or our pod to spread. Um, I think of somebody when we

spread. Um, I think of somebody when we think about this, I think of our good

think about this, I think of our good buddy Sam Newton.

buddy Sam Newton. >> Okay,

>> Okay, >> he's got a good amount of subscribers on

>> he's got a good amount of subscribers on YouTube.

YouTube. He makes incredible work when it comes

He makes incredible work when it comes to like the travel film space. He's

to like the travel film space. He's remarkable at that. He's able to have

remarkable at that. He's able to have 500 people come out and come from all

500 people come out and come from all over, not just LA, come from out of

over, not just LA, come from out of town, fly in to come to his film

town, fly in to come to his film festival.

festival. And I would argue that there's some

And I would argue that there's some other creators who have more subscribers

other creators who have more subscribers than him that can't pull in that many

than him that can't pull in that many people to come see them in person

people to come see them in person because Sam has done such a great job of

because Sam has done such a great job of being remarkable and staying consistent

being remarkable and staying consistent over a long period of time. And then

over a long period of time. And then another thing that he's talked about

another thing that he's talked about like you just brought up is maybe he

like you just brought up is maybe he doesn't post for a week or two or maybe

doesn't post for a week or two or maybe takes a month off cuz he's feeling burnt

takes a month off cuz he's feeling burnt out or whatever. his audience is still

out or whatever. his audience is still going to be there for him when he comes

going to be there for him when he comes back. And that's the scariest thing as a

back. And that's the scariest thing as a creator because we constantly feel like

creator because we constantly feel like we need to be pumping out content to

we need to be pumping out content to stay quote unquote relevant and you're

stay quote unquote relevant and you're on this hamster wheel. But the more

on this hamster wheel. But the more remarkable you are, I think about

remarkable you are, I think about somebody like Tarantino, right? You

somebody like Tarantino, right? You think about these big directors.

think about these big directors. They're taking

They're taking years

years between creating new films, but because

between creating new films, but because their films are so [ __ ] good,

their films are so [ __ ] good, >> they're also very they're very unique,

>> they're also very they're very unique, too. You go to like Tarantino or

too. You go to like Tarantino or Christopher Nolan's films, and they're

Christopher Nolan's films, and they're different. They're different than all

different. They're different than all the stuff that we get fed on Netflix on

the stuff that we get fed on Netflix on on a weekly basis. They have a different

on a weekly basis. They have a different look and feel to them. there. You can

look and feel to them. there. You can tell that there's so much craftsmanship

tell that there's so much craftsmanship that has gone into making the thing

that has gone into making the thing happen and putting it on this big screen

happen and putting it on this big screen in front of us to watch and then you go

in front of us to watch and then you go talk about it to your friends. Like we

talk about it to your friends. Like we we spread the word for them.

we spread the word for them. I saw

I saw Oh my god, who did I see talk about

Oh my god, who did I see talk about this? Denzel Washington.

this? Denzel Washington. >> Okay. Oh, I know exactly what you're

>> Okay. Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.

talking about. >> I believe he gave Michael B. Jordan this

>> I believe he gave Michael B. Jordan this piece of advice where he said you need

piece of advice where he said you need to give your audience

to give your audience >> time to miss you.

>> time to miss you. >> And

>> And >> you think this only works though for

>> you think this only works though for like A-list actors cuz I feel like could

like A-list actors cuz I feel like could you imag Bro if we went away for 2

you imag Bro if we went away for 2 months no one would give a [ __ ]

months no one would give a [ __ ] >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> They'd be like they'd move on to the

>> They'd be like they'd move on to the next thing. But it's an interesting

next thing. But it's an interesting point of like

point of like >> it's an interesting thing for the I feel

>> it's an interesting thing for the I feel like for these actors or actresses to

like for these actors or actresses to not be as public facing cuz it makes you

not be as public facing cuz it makes you want to like they're in a movie. You're

want to like they're in a movie. You're like, "Oh, I want to go see them."

like, "Oh, I want to go see them." >> Yeah, scratch that shitty advice. If

>> Yeah, scratch that shitty advice. If you're making content, stay consistent.

you're making content, stay consistent. >> That was probably some of the worst

>> That was probably some of the worst advice you've ever given.

advice you've ever given. >> But I think the the thesis of it might

>> But I think the the thesis of it might be fair.

be fair. If you're an actor or an actress,

If you're an actor or an actress, >> the more remarkable you are, the less

>> the more remarkable you are, the less maybe super [ __ ] in somebody's face

maybe super [ __ ] in somebody's face you need to be.

you need to be. >> Like if you came out once a month and it

>> Like if you came out once a month and it was a movie.

was a movie. >> Yeah. You'd give you give them you'd

>> Yeah. You'd give you give them you'd give them the grace to to be like

give them the grace to to be like >> you think okay you take somebody like

>> you think okay you take somebody like Sam Cer.

Sam Cer. >> That's exactly who I was thinking of.

>> That's exactly who I was thinking of. >> Sam Cer I mean [ __ ] remarkable

>> Sam Cer I mean [ __ ] remarkable YouTuber filmmaker.

YouTuber filmmaker. >> Twice a year we get blessed with a

>> Twice a year we get blessed with a little video.

little video. >> Yeah. or somebody like uh do you watch

>> Yeah. or somebody like uh do you watch Andreas Hem?

Andreas Hem? >> Yeah. Andreas would go he'd be like guys

>> Yeah. Andreas would go he'd be like guys I'm doing a daily vlog on YouTube and

I'm doing a daily vlog on YouTube and then be gone.

then be gone. >> So that's a perfect example of like

>> So that's a perfect example of like YouTube creators.

YouTube creators. >> It was a movie every time.

>> It was a movie every time. >> Exactly. So I guess the more time you

>> Exactly. So I guess the more time you take between pieces of content, the more

take between pieces of content, the more [ __ ] remarkable you better be or else

[ __ ] remarkable you better be or else people ain't tuning in. The purple cow

people ain't tuning in. The purple cow theory was something I want to briefly

theory was something I want to briefly touch on because I had read that book

touch on because I had read that book quite a bit of time ago. But

quite a bit of time ago. But in a sea of sameness, when everyone's

in a sea of sameness, when everyone's zigging, you got to be the rock that

zigging, you got to be the rock that zags. You know, you see like

zags. You know, you see like specifically right now cuz I've been on

specifically right now cuz I've been on LinkedIn quite a bit and every single

LinkedIn quite a bit and every single >> Hold on. Wait.

>> Hold on. Wait. >> Huh?

>> Huh? >> Our dog.

>> Our dog. >> It's empty.

>> It's empty. >> Oh, okay. Thought I thought our dog was

>> Oh, okay. Thought I thought our dog was good. I've been on LinkedIn quite a bit

good. I've been on LinkedIn quite a bit right now and it's very similar stuff,

right now and it's very similar stuff, dude. Like all the stuff feels the exact

dude. Like all the stuff feels the exact same. And I noticed the people that I

same. And I noticed the people that I actually do enjoy like reading some of

actually do enjoy like reading some of their posts,

their posts, >> they feel very handwritten. They don't

>> they feel very handwritten. They don't feel like something that is AI

feel like something that is AI generated. And you can tell like you can

generated. And you can tell like you can tell immediately, dude, people don't

tell immediately, dude, people don't talk how they talk on LinkedIn. So, I

talk how they talk on LinkedIn. So, I think that the people that I really

think that the people that I really enjoy watching are very candid and like

enjoy watching are very candid and like they'll have a typo or something. It's

they'll have a typo or something. It's it just feels like a much more human

it just feels like a much more human interaction rather than some [ __ ] that's

interaction rather than some [ __ ] that's like, "What's up, man? I'm Corporate Ben

like, "What's up, man? I'm Corporate Ben and I'm here to I'm here to help you

and I'm here to I'm here to help you learn how to market today."

learn how to market today." >> It's just not the same. Like,

>> It's just not the same. Like, >> you feel like an accent just comes

>> you feel like an accent just comes through when you're typing.

through when you're typing. >> I'm just like, it comes right here. You

>> I'm just like, it comes right here. You know, it it's just a different kind of

know, it it's just a different kind of feel on there.

feel on there. >> I get you.

>> I get you. >> You know what I'm saying?

>> You know what I'm saying? >> I get you, brother. I think uh the

>> I get you, brother. I think uh the purple cow theory is is interesting and

purple cow theory is is interesting and I totally agree. It's like if you saw a

I totally agree. It's like if you saw a purple cow in a field of a ton of cows,

purple cow in a field of a ton of cows, you're going to point out the purple cow

you're going to point out the purple cow cuz it's different and it's unique. I

cuz it's different and it's unique. I also think if the cow was twice the size

also think if the cow was twice the size of the other cows, you're also going to

of the other cows, you're also going to point it out. And I think of that as yo,

point it out. And I think of that as yo, if your [ __ ] is just so much [ __ ]

if your [ __ ] is just so much [ __ ] better than the next guy, if you were

better than the next guy, if you were looking for an editor to hire, if you

looking for an editor to hire, if you saw an editor and they were just dirty,

saw an editor and they were just dirty, like they had the sauce, you'd want

like they had the sauce, you'd want them. And it's not necessarily that

them. And it's not necessarily that they're like so unique, they're just so

they're like so unique, they're just so [ __ ] good at what they do, and then

[ __ ] good at what they do, and then they're willing to charge a premium

they're willing to charge a premium because they're that much better at what

because they're that much better at what they do.

they do. We were saying this earlier before we

We were saying this earlier before we started in like in videography and

started in like in videography and photography and podcasting like those

photography and podcasting like those are super saturated niches. Maybe when

are super saturated niches. Maybe when we started it wasn't like this like

we started it wasn't like this like back, you know, 10 years ago. Now it's

back, you know, 10 years ago. Now it's super saturated. But I'll still see a

super saturated. But I'll still see a random person pop up and I'm like, "This

random person pop up and I'm like, "This is different. This is totally

is different. This is totally different." And I bet they're booked all

different." And I bet they're booked all the time. And if they're not, give me a

the time. And if they're not, give me a call.

call. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Please.

>> Please. >> Absolutely.

>> Absolutely. >> Can hire you for stuff.

>> Can hire you for stuff. >> Yeah. It's so interesting though because

>> Yeah. It's so interesting though because the amount of DMs now that I get on

the amount of DMs now that I get on LinkedIn and on Instagram that are like,

LinkedIn and on Instagram that are like, "Hey man, can you check out this edit?"

"Hey man, can you check out this edit?" Like, "I'm an editor." They all suck.

Like, "I'm an editor." They all suck. >> Yeah,

>> Yeah, >> they're terrible. They're They're bad.

>> they're terrible. They're They're bad. And then every now and then I'll get one

And then every now and then I'll get one where I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] this is so

where I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] this is so You're you're so talented. It's

You're you're so talented. It's unbelievable." Think about how many DMs

unbelievable." Think about how many DMs we get on a daily basis being like, "Hey

we get on a daily basis being like, "Hey man, your clips suck. I can make your

man, your clips suck. I can make your clips better."

clips better." >> Every every day we get one of those. And

>> Every every day we get one of those. And their clips, guess their clips are dog

their clips, guess their clips are dog water.

water. >> Yeah. And I'm like, you're telling me

>> Yeah. And I'm like, you're telling me that you thought your clip was better

that you thought your clip was better than this clip that we that we have?

than this clip that we that we have? Come on.

Come on. >> We also just like

>> We also just like >> we just brought on a new clips person,

>> we just brought on a new clips person, so it's not like the right time. That's

so it's not like the right time. That's also another thing. I think timing also

also another thing. I think timing also plays a huge part. Um,

plays a huge part. Um, >> what did you think about the part where

>> what did you think about the part where Seth was talking about the duping of

Seth was talking about the duping of different products?

different products? >> That's Yeah, that was something we

>> That's Yeah, that was something we wanted to bring up. That's really

wanted to bring up. That's really interesting. So, it's something that

interesting. So, it's something that Christian Guzman brought up to us in our

Christian Guzman brought up to us in our pre-show call with him, and it's really

pre-show call with him, and it's really interesting because there's not really

interesting because there's not really much he can do, but he was just super

much he can do, but he was just super frustrated because they're

frustrated because they're >> should be illegal. First of all,

>> should be illegal. First of all, >> I think they're using the same content.

>> I think they're using the same content. I also saw Jacob Owens post about this

I also saw Jacob Owens post about this with Prism Lens Effects. Like, people

with Prism Lens Effects. Like, people are

are >> they're using his exact exact photos,

>> they're using his exact exact photos, bro. That's crazy.

bro. That's crazy. >> And I think

>> And I think >> and they're big ass companies, too.

>> and they're big ass companies, too. That's the even crazier part.

That's the even crazier part. >> I guess it's just it's frustrating cuz

>> I guess it's just it's frustrating cuz there's nothing you can do about it. But

there's nothing you can do about it. But I guess it's just

I guess it's just part of the game and maybe the person

part of the game and maybe the person that was going to buy the knockoff just

that was going to buy the knockoff just wasn't your customer in the first place

wasn't your customer in the first place and maybe he just has to go harder on

and maybe he just has to go harder on marketing and becoming even more

marketing and becoming even more >> making the stuff better X Y and Z. You

>> making the stuff better X Y and Z. You know what's interesting too? One of my

know what's interesting too? One of my mom's friends used to own a very

mom's friends used to own a very successful clothing brand and they were

successful clothing brand and they were they were like a knockoff brand. So they

they were like a knockoff brand. So they like a Zara and it sold for tens of

like a Zara and it sold for tens of millions of dollars. It was it was worth

millions of dollars. It was it was worth a lot of money.

a lot of money. >> They would go to like Italy during, you

>> They would go to like Italy during, you know, during the summer and they would

know, during the summer and they would take pictures of what the women were

take pictures of what the women were wearing and what was in the designer

wearing and what was in the designer stores because over in Europe they were

stores because over in Europe they were ahead they were ahead of America, right?

ahead they were ahead of America, right? So they would set the trend and then

So they would set the trend and then they'd go knock it off and figure out

they'd go knock it off and figure out how to make it for cheaper and bring it

how to make it for cheaper and bring it back over here.

back over here. go into Zara tomorrow.

go into Zara tomorrow. >> Yeah,

>> Yeah, >> they're they're knocking off all of the

>> they're they're knocking off all of the biggest brands. Like that is their

biggest brands. Like that is their playbook. Is it right or wrong? It's up

playbook. Is it right or wrong? It's up for you to decide. That's a that's a

for you to decide. That's a that's a topic for another day. But it's

topic for another day. But it's interesting because it's always been a

interesting because it's always been a thing. I mean, fashion is the king of it

thing. I mean, fashion is the king of it all, right? All these big players in

all, right? All these big players in fashion, like they do that [ __ ] all the

fashion, like they do that [ __ ] all the time, bro. If a little brand is on the

time, bro. If a little brand is on the come up, I see this all the time on

come up, I see this all the time on Twitter, but I think back to the combo

Twitter, but I think back to the combo that we had with Gary about the Mark

that we had with Gary about the Mark Zuckerberg saying, "Oh, I want Facebook

Zuckerberg saying, "Oh, I want Facebook to be a place where, you know, we do

to be a place where, you know, we do everything." And just basically it was

everything." And just basically it was like arbitrage the entire ad agency and

like arbitrage the entire ad agency and put all these [ __ ] out of business.

put all these [ __ ] out of business. He's like, "Yeah, [ __ ] do it. You

He's like, "Yeah, [ __ ] do it. You should do it cuz that's the game."

should do it cuz that's the game." >> And Seth talked about it briefly. I wish

>> And Seth talked about it briefly. I wish we had way more time to talk to him

we had way more time to talk to him about gamesmanship because he had a

about gamesmanship because he had a whole section in his book, This is

whole section in his book, This is Strategy on Games and it kind of is,

Strategy on Games and it kind of is, dude, it's just part of the [ __ ]

dude, it's just part of the [ __ ] game. If someone ripped our pod, the 405

game. If someone ripped our pod, the 405 pod, and it was [ __ ] better and they

pod, and it was [ __ ] better and they they were more entertaining, dude, kudos

they were more entertaining, dude, kudos to them. We'd have to figure out how to

to them. We'd have to figure out how to iterate. And I feel like the creators

iterate. And I feel like the creators that we've watched that have withtood

that we've watched that have withtood the test of time cuz, dude, the YouTube

the test of time cuz, dude, the YouTube YouTube creators are kind of like the

YouTube creators are kind of like the NBA guys, man.

NBA guys, man. >> They got a little They got a few seasons

>> They got a little They got a few seasons in them.

in them. >> True. Four years. 4.4 years is the

>> True. Four years. 4.4 years is the average for the NB an NBA player. So,

average for the NB an NBA player. So, they're not in there very long. And

they're not in there very long. And NFL's even shorter. I think it's like 3

NFL's even shorter. I think it's like 3 point something. Not for long. NFL not

point something. Not for long. NFL not for long.

for long. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> You have to figure out a way to

>> You have to figure out a way to continuously evolve. And think about how

continuously evolve. And think about how we used to not have like an intro on our

we used to not have like an intro on our show. And then you go watch what Dire of

show. And then you go watch what Dire of CEO are doing and all the biggest

CEO are doing and all the biggest players in the space. You go, "Oh [ __ ]

players in the space. You go, "Oh [ __ ] okay, that's what the tiptop dogs are

okay, that's what the tiptop dogs are doing. We need to figure out something

doing. We need to figure out something because we're not keeping people past 30

because we're not keeping people past 30 seconds. Yeah. I also think you brought

seconds. Yeah. I also think you brought up the NFL or you brought up the NBA and

up the NFL or you brought up the NBA and LeBron.

LeBron. I believe LeBron had his highest

I believe LeBron had his highest threepoint percentage either this past

threepoint percentage either this past season or the year before.

season or the year before. >> His game has changed so much. He used to

>> His game has changed so much. He used to be he used to be just dunking all the

be he used to be just dunking all the time and flying around. And then as he

time and flying around. And then as he got a little bit older, he completely

got a little bit older, he completely reinvented his game to shoot more

reinvented his game to shoot more threes. And so I think that is also part

threes. And so I think that is also part of being remarkable is knowing and

of being remarkable is knowing and understanding that what works today

understanding that what works today might not work tomorrow and having the

might not work tomorrow and having the ability to adapt. I think that that is

ability to adapt. I think that that is the whole thing if you're going to be

the whole thing if you're going to be making stuff online. It's like

making stuff online. It's like >> what worked for us in 2000 we're in

>> what worked for us in 2000 we're in 2025. What worked for us in 2022 on Tik

2025. What worked for us in 2022 on Tik Tok

Tok >> does not work today. It's totally

>> does not work today. It's totally different. And what might work this year

different. And what might work this year might not work here in the next 6 to 12

might not work here in the next 6 to 12 months because these platforms are

months because these platforms are constantly shifting and changing. And

constantly shifting and changing. And like right now that trend is going on uh

like right now that trend is going on uh where people are saying like it's like

where people are saying like it's like two different perspectives and on top

two different perspectives and on top it's a photo perspective and on bottom

it's a photo perspective and on bottom it's like a reframe perspective. That's

it's like a reframe perspective. That's going to work for another like day and

going to work for another like day and then it'll it'll change. It'll change to

then it'll it'll change. It'll change to something else. And it's our jobs as

something else. And it's our jobs as creators or as entrepreneurs with our

creators or as entrepreneurs with our business to always be figuring out how

business to always be figuring out how we can change or adapt or you just

we can change or adapt or you just [ __ ] die and your business closes.

[ __ ] die and your business closes. That happens all the time. Businesses

That happens all the time. Businesses don't adapt and they don't change and

don't adapt and they don't change and they close.

they close. >> Bringing up Christian Guzman, something

>> Bringing up Christian Guzman, something that he brought up again is that

that he brought up again is that influencer marketing isn't converting as

influencer marketing isn't converting as well as it maybe was in the past. So he

well as it maybe was in the past. So he has to change his marketing strategy to

has to change his marketing strategy to go a lot

go a lot more deep on just like traditional

more deep on just like traditional marketing. And that's really

marketing. And that's really interesting. And that's just a that's

interesting. And that's just a that's another perfect that's another perfect

another perfect that's another perfect example of how what worked in the past

example of how what worked in the past might not work today. And you have to be

might not work today. And you have to be able to to change and stay up to date

able to to change and stay up to date with the times. And you also see, you

with the times. And you also see, you know, creators, like you said, they have

know, creators, like you said, they have seasons. You know, some creators you

seasons. You know, some creators you might be super into. Um, yeah, today and

might be super into. Um, yeah, today and then you might not be in too the next

then you might not be in too the next day. I uh I actually I made a video

day. I uh I actually I made a video about this. I thought this was really

about this. I thought this was really interesting. I came across a girl on

interesting. I came across a girl on TikTok,

TikTok, >> okay?

>> okay? >> And she was pretty big. She had about 3

>> And she was pretty big. She had about 3 million followers and she had just been

million followers and she had just been acquired her she sold her company. I

acquired her she sold her company. I don't even know what the company was,

don't even know what the company was, but she started off the video saying,

but she started off the video saying, "Hey, what's going on? I'm so I just

"Hey, what's going on? I'm so I just sold my company. I know you guys have

sold my company. I know you guys have heard this story a million times. It was

heard this story a million times. It was my first time seeing her. So, I think

my first time seeing her. So, I think another really important point is that

another really important point is that there's always a fresh set of eyes and

there's always a fresh set of eyes and ears to consume your content. And so, be

ears to consume your content. And so, be remarkable,

remarkable, but also don't be afraid to share your

but also don't be afraid to share your story and put yourself out there because

story and put yourself out there because you never know who's who's watching.

you never know who's who's watching. >> 100%.

>> 100%. Dude, can you believe we're we're going

Dude, can you believe we're we're going to Texas tomorrow?

to Texas tomorrow? >> Are you packed?

>> Are you packed? >> We're we're in Texas. I'm in Texas right

>> We're we're in Texas. I'm in Texas right now.

now. >> I'm in Texas. Texas, I'm in you.

>> I'm in Texas. Texas, I'm in you. >> Haven't packed at all.

>> Haven't packed at all. >> I haven't packed. We uh I do think we

>> I haven't packed. We uh I do think we need to go.

need to go. >> We got to go shopping.

>> We got to go shopping. >> Get some drip. Some shorts.

>> Get some drip. Some shorts. >> Short drip.

>> Short drip. >> I want to hit I want to hit Kith.

>> I want to hit I want to hit Kith. >> Should we get some cool shorts?

>> Should we get some cool shorts? >> I think so. I think we should drip out.

>> I think so. I think we should drip out. >> Oh, there's a Kith right around this

>> Oh, there's a Kith right around this corner, isn't it?

corner, isn't it? >> Literally right down the street. Have

>> Literally right down the street. Have you had Okay.

you had Okay. >> Kith treats.

>> Kith treats. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Kith treats. Cookies and cream.

>> Kith treats. Cookies and cream. >> Okay. Might be the best ice cream I've

>> Okay. Might be the best ice cream I've ever had.

ever had. >> It is good. I've had I've had I've had

>> It is good. I've had I've had I've had the cookies and cream.

the cookies and cream. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think we do need to go get a

>> Yeah. I think we do need to go get a little bit of a fit. We're going to get

little bit of a fit. We're going to get a lift in with with Christian.

a lift in with with Christian. >> That fires me up bomb. Can't believe.

>> That fires me up bomb. Can't believe. >> I don't know. I got to text him. He's

>> I don't know. I got to text him. He's like, "It's not happening anymore." I'm

like, "It's not happening anymore." I'm like, "Okay, [ __ ] me."

like, "Okay, [ __ ] me." >> What time's our pod with him?

>> What time's our pod with him? >> I think our pod with him is like 11:00

>> I think our pod with him is like 11:00 and then we got like an hour break in

and then we got like an hour break in between him and Heidi and then we do Max

between him and Heidi and then we do Max on Friday.

on Friday. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Dude, I hit a bomb last night.

>> Dude, I hit a bomb last night. >> Dude, you did. You went [ __ ] bummed,

>> Dude, you did. You went [ __ ] bummed, >> guys. Roll the clip.

>> guys. Roll the clip. >> You have no idea how far I hit this

>> You have no idea how far I hit this ball,

ball, >> dude. Wooden bat, too.

>> dude. Wooden bat, too. >> Come on.

>> Come on. >> Like 360.

>> Like 360. >> I feel like

>> I feel like >> I think I could have a chance. Dude,

>> I think I could have a chance. Dude, >> is there ability to walk on to like a

>> is there ability to walk on to like a single A team?

single A team? >> That'd be a funny piece of content.

>> That'd be a funny piece of content. >> Oh, no. That's what I'm saying. That's

>> Oh, no. That's what I'm saying. That's why I would want to do it.

why I would want to do it. >> Just show up to spring training.

>> Just show up to spring training. >> I like go up to the coach after like,

>> I like go up to the coach after like, "What did you rank me?" He's like 350.

"What did you rank me?" He's like 350. I'm like, "How many guys are here?" He's

I'm like, "How many guys are here?" He's like

like >> 340.

Show my show with my bat and glove. What an insane story arc from

an insane story arc from >> from Lakers videographer to podcaster to

>> from Lakers videographer to podcaster to double baseball player.

double baseball player. >> Yeah. Something about like crossing over

>> Yeah. Something about like crossing over those lines

those lines >> feel different, man. Be like, "Dude, I

>> feel different, man. Be like, "Dude, I was once I was the filmer guy." Yeah.

was once I was the filmer guy." Yeah. >> And dude, I would dap up all the camera

>> And dude, I would dap up all the camera guys.

guys. >> Maybe that could be that could be the

>> Maybe that could be that could be the story arc of the year.

story arc of the year. >> Yeah. Make sure to get my angle right.

>> Yeah. Make sure to get my angle right. Okay. Make sure that shit's in focus.

Okay. Make sure that shit's in focus. It's the right side.

It's the right side. >> I'm going yard right now.

>> I'm going yard right now. >> Could you could you switch that into 60

>> Could you could you switch that into 60 for me?

for me? >> What's the frame rate? You're going to

>> What's the frame rate? You're going to want this slow down. Okay, this one's

want this slow down. Okay, this one's going in the dock.

going in the dock. >> Anyways,

>> Anyways, >> God, this is fun. This is a great pod.

>> God, this is fun. This is a great pod. >> If you guys want Okay, the reason, full

>> If you guys want Okay, the reason, full transparency, the reason we're doing the

transparency, the reason we're doing the pod debrief is cuz we only had 45

pod debrief is cuz we only had 45 minutes with Mr. Seth.

minutes with Mr. Seth. >> If you guys [ __ ] with the pod debriefs,

>> If you guys [ __ ] with the pod debriefs, let us know because

let us know because >> I feel like we should do these. I feel

>> I feel like we should do these. I feel like this is a fun

like this is a fun >> 25 to 40 minute little postpod chat.

>> 25 to 40 minute little postpod chat. >> It also allow if you're OG, you know

>> It also allow if you're OG, you know that we used to do rock talk at the

that we used to do rock talk at the beginning for like 10, 15 minutes, then

beginning for like 10, 15 minutes, then get into the episodes. This kind of

get into the episodes. This kind of allows us to [ __ ] a little bit.

allows us to [ __ ] a little bit. >> We can talk about our lives.

>> We can talk about our lives. >> Yeah. And it doesn't even have to be 25,

>> Yeah. And it doesn't even have to be 25, 30 minutes. It could be

30 minutes. It could be >> 60 minutes.

>> 60 minutes. >> It could be, you know, a 5 to 10 minute

>> It could be, you know, a 5 to 10 minute debrief. But let us know if you guys

debrief. But let us know if you guys [ __ ] with this and what you guys have

[ __ ] with this and what you guys have been thinking of the episodes as of

been thinking of the episodes as of late.

late. >> Dude, be a rock. Share it with a homie.

>> Dude, be a rock. Share it with a homie. And we'll see you guys all

And we'll see you guys all >> in Texas.

>> in Texas. >> Come on. Let's go.

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YouTube Transcript:How to Build a Magnetic Brand that Sells Itself ft. Seth Godin