0:03 I'm Dr Becky and this is good inside
0:05 you know I have three adult kids and
0:06 when I was a parent I didn't know what
0:08 their needs were I had my own issues
0:10 that I hadn't worked out you know from
0:13 my own trauma and childhood and then my
0:16 children showed issues I naturally
0:17 assumed there was something wrong with
0:19 them rather than asking myself what is
0:21 it in a parenting environment that is
0:23 not meeting their needs and what can I
0:26 do to bring myself into a more grounded
0:28 and understanding place so I could
0:30 actually meet their needs rather than
0:32 demand that they need my expectations
0:34 it's a totally different way of parenting
0:35 parenting
0:38 so I recently sat down to talk with Dr
0:41 Gabor mate someone whose work has had a
0:44 profound impact on so many of you and
0:46 I'm excited to share this conversation
0:49 with you Dr mate has had a highly varied
0:51 career he started out as an English
0:53 teacher then he returned to medical
0:56 school to work in family practice and
0:59 then he spent 20 years working in harm
1:01 reduction clinics in Vancouver's
1:02 downtown east side
1:04 we're going to touch on many important
1:07 topics today such as sleep training and
1:09 the relationship between resilience and
1:12 empathy but first let's jump right into
1:15 a conversation about so-called
1:17 oppositional Defiance disorder that
1:19 Gabor and I started having in the booth
1:21 before we realized we had even started recording
1:23 recording
1:25 I feel like my passion project or kids I
1:27 call deeply feeling kids who are often
1:29 labeled with Oppositional Defiant
1:31 Disorder or some other awful set of
1:33 terms which just even forces a parent to
1:35 look at their kid more as a bad kid and
1:36 as obviously as you know just further
1:38 identify that way and yeah when those
1:40 parents here are like I like your kid
1:41 you have a great kid they're struggling
1:43 they're really struggling we're gonna
1:44 figure it out but I like your kid
1:47 they're like wow like nobody has said or
1:50 insinuated anything like that and it is
1:52 relieving like wait maybe I don't have a
1:54 budding sociopath I just I if I can make
1:56 some changes everything can get a little
1:58 bit better right no we haven't started
2:00 the interview yet have we oh no now we
2:02 should start hi I was only gonna say
2:04 because as soon as I'm concerned
2:06 oppositional defense sort of doesn't
2:09 even exist you know well we're recording
2:10 so let's let's keep this is like music
2:13 to my ear my words when people say that
2:15 is like I [ __ ] hate those words so
2:16 you have a you have a nicer way of
2:18 saying it tell me about Oppositional
2:20 Defiant Disorder so when we Define or
2:23 when we diagnose a child without
2:25 position defined disorder we're assuming
2:27 that the child has a disorder some kind
2:30 of a quasi disease or dysfunction of the
2:32 brain or the mind not only does not
2:35 exist in real life odd it can't even
2:38 theoretically exist and here's why if my
2:40 foot was broken would make any
2:43 difference to the Brokenness of my foot
2:44 whether or not I was talking to you
2:47 whether or not even knew you if I had a
2:49 flu would make any difference whether or
2:52 not I was talking to you or whether if I
2:54 knew you no because those are disorders
2:55 within my own body
2:58 but could I oppose you if I didn't know
3:00 you could I oppose you if you weren't in
3:02 a relationship of some kind no there's
3:04 nothing there you can't so oppositions
3:06 by definition happens in a relationship
3:09 so that's the first point if that is the
3:10 case why are we diagnosing the child
3:12 instead of diagnosing a relationship
3:15 that's the first point the second point
3:18 is who are these kids who are oppositional
3:19 oppositional
3:21 their kids who've lost their healthy
3:24 trusting contact with adults and
3:26 therefore they don't trust adults it's
3:28 very natural
3:31 not to obey somebody that you don't
3:34 trust but the lack of trust the lack of
3:36 relationship wasn't the child's fault it
3:39 happened it wasn't the parents fault
3:40 either actually it happens in a culture
3:42 where kids and parents are increasingly
3:44 alienated from each other for all kinds
3:45 of reasons
3:47 if I were to push on you right now
3:49 either emotionally or physically you
3:52 would oppose me you'd resist me so this
3:54 resistance on the part of children has
3:57 to do with the degree of pushing they
3:59 received on the part of adults and so
4:01 the adults shift the behavior the kids
4:03 change almost immediately I couldn't
4:05 agree more and you know I always think
4:06 when people tell me my kid's been
4:09 diagnosed this way almost just very
4:10 practically the way I'm thinking about
4:12 my kid the way I'm describing my kid
4:14 does it make me want to be close with my
4:16 kid feel on the same team or does my
4:17 framework make me just not like my kid
4:19 and I try to tell myself with my own
4:21 kids like until I'm in the first
4:22 framework I shouldn't do anything
4:24 because like nothing good comes from the
4:26 second framework and I just don't know
4:28 anyone who's like my kid is Oppositional
4:30 Defiant like what oh how amazing are
4:33 they like inherently it makes you it
4:36 reinforces the dynamic that got things
4:38 there in the first place and and then
4:40 also a kid is growing up with you know
4:43 being looked at as a bad kid that's the
4:45 image reflected back to them and I mean
4:47 I know what it's like even as an adult
4:49 when I've been struggling in any
4:50 relationship to be looked at as a bad
4:54 person and it's it's eviscerating
4:56 or if somebody's pushing on you and we
4:58 use this interesting phrase this kid is
5:00 acting out what do you do with the kid
5:01 when they're acting out why don't we
5:03 think about it first what does it mean
5:05 to act out like when I say acting out
5:07 most people think the kid is
5:10 oppositional or or obstreperous or rude
5:12 or aggressive or you know something's
5:14 wrong with the kid but if you look at
5:16 the actual word acting out it actually
5:19 means something when do we act out we
5:22 have to when we don't have the language
5:23 to say it in words and what they're
5:25 acting out of the emotional needs and
5:27 the emotional frustrations so our job as
5:30 parents Educators psychologists it's not
5:33 the trend fix the child's Behavior but
5:34 to understand the message that's being
5:36 acted on I love the way you described
5:37 acting out I've never heard it described
5:39 that way and it's so true with you know
5:41 thinking about not having the language
5:42 I've always thought about kind of quote
5:45 acting out as I don't know it's like the
5:48 feelings or urges or Sensations inside
5:50 my body that I haven't yet developed
5:53 skills to contain not like suppress in
5:54 my body but just allow them them to live
5:56 inside my body they're so overpowering
5:58 those skills that they literally explode
6:01 out of me as as a hit as a scream as a f
6:04 you or whatever however it comes out but
6:07 I think we come together here and right
6:09 and seeing these behaviors are a sign of
6:11 what our kids are struggling with or
6:13 need not a sign of who they are no
6:15 generally they're acting out their own
6:17 needs I mean they're acting about their
6:20 frustrations and we get frustrated when
6:22 our needs aren't met so in this culture
6:24 parents are not educated about chosen needs
6:25 needs
6:28 for healthy development they're educated
6:30 about how to get the kid to behave about
6:32 how they want them to behave which runs
6:34 contrary to their child's needs and
6:38 if your Gardener or serious animals you
6:40 have to begin with understanding what
6:42 are the organisms needs for development
6:44 you're not going to go to a healthy
6:45 garden if you don't know what your
6:47 plants need and it's the same with
6:49 parenting children are born with certain
6:51 non-negotiable needs when I say
6:53 non-negotiable needs I mean needs that nature
6:55 nature
6:58 evolutionarily programmed into them you
7:00 meet those needs those children will
7:02 grow up beautifully if you don't meet
7:03 the needs they're going to have problems
7:05 and then we're going to diagnose the kid
7:07 with the problem instead of recognizing how
7:09 how
7:10 like with my children you know I have
7:12 three adult kids and when I was a parent
7:14 I didn't know what their needs were I
7:15 had my only shoes that I hadn't worked
7:17 out you know from my own trauma and
7:20 childhood and then my children showed
7:22 issues I naturally assumed there was
7:24 something wrong with them
7:26 rather than asking myself as I was
7:29 finally guided to looking at what is it
7:31 in the parenting environment that is not
7:33 meeting their needs that is causing them
7:35 to be in certain ways
7:38 and what can I do to bring myself into a
7:40 more grounded and understanding place so
7:43 I could actually meet their needs rather
7:45 than demand that they need my
7:46 expectations it's a totally different
7:49 way of planting yeah and so I want to
7:50 double click on that for a second
7:52 non-negotiable needs I'm sure listeners
7:53 are saying like oh can he like what I
7:55 want to write them down right like what
7:57 what are children's non-negotiable needs
7:59 there are four basic ones the first one
8:01 is for an attachment relationship image
8:03 the field image the child is absolutely secure
8:04 secure
8:06 attachment is a very powerful dynamic in
8:08 human life because it actually means the
8:10 desire to be close to somebody for the
8:13 sake of being taken care of or for the
8:15 sake taking care of the other and human
8:17 beings need each other so our brains are
8:19 wired with a powerful attachment circuit
8:21 now the more immature you are the more
8:24 helpless and and dependent you are the
8:25 greater your attachment is so infants
8:28 have absolutely infinite attachment
8:31 needs and that attention needs is not
8:33 just for physical nurturing but for
8:35 emotionally being held and seen and
8:38 accepted the second need is that inside
8:40 that relationship the child should have
8:43 rest and rest means the child shouldn't
8:46 have to work to make their lecture work
8:48 it's not that I'll accept you and love
8:50 you unlike you if you behave such and
8:53 such if you're cute if you're smart if
8:56 you're compliant no there's nothing that
8:58 you have to do to make this relationship
9:01 work the third need is the child has an
9:02 absolute need to be able to experience
9:05 all their emotions now our brains are
9:09 wired by Evolution for Joy for play for
9:13 love for grief for fear for panic for
9:16 anger these are all essential emotions
9:19 for survival when parents are told that
9:20 anger children should be punished for
9:22 being angry what you telling the parent
9:24 is is that the child is not allowed to
9:26 experience their emotions one of the
9:28 things I think that I know parents find
9:30 so Illuminating because it's not
9:32 explained to them is there's a
9:33 difference between
9:37 behavior and feelings so I I think it
9:39 you know I remember our parents sitting
9:40 I was kind of saying something similar
9:41 one day in my private practice and
9:43 parents like oh so it's okay my son just
9:44 hits people I was like no well first of
9:45 all I don't even know if it's okay or
9:47 not okay just happened like when my
9:49 coffee's build it wasn't okay or not
9:51 okay it just happened but sure our kid
9:53 needs our protection then to stop
9:55 themselves from hurting someone and stop
9:56 someone else from being hurt that is
9:59 separate from the emotion of anger that
10:01 they haven't learned the skills yet to
10:05 regulate absolutely and I completely
10:06 agree with you and there's two things I
10:09 would say in response one is if a child
10:11 for example is habitually hitting other
10:13 kids we have to ask why because that is
10:15 a very frustrated child and why is that
10:17 so frustrated because there are needs
10:19 aren't being met of course you don't
10:21 allow kids to hit each other you know so
10:23 you you you work with them you're very
10:25 angry right now no hitting but you're
10:28 very angry right now so you don't punish
10:30 somebody you don't allow the behavior
10:31 but you don't hold the emotion against
10:35 them and just differentiating these
10:37 things again it's not taught to us when
10:38 we take a baby home from the hospital
10:42 not only is a kid not bad for having a
10:43 tantrum but here's something else
10:45 important when my kid is a tantrum that
10:47 doesn't mean I have to change change my
10:49 rules right my boundaries I was saying
10:52 it's like don't dictate my kids feelings
10:54 they're allowed to be upset when I make
10:56 a decision and their feelings don't
10:58 dictate my boundaries nobody's bad it's
11:00 inconvenient it's not pleasant like I
11:02 don't like that moment with my kids I'm
11:04 not like uh how amazing is this no it's
11:05 like oh okay I gotta get through this
11:08 but nobody's in the wrong nobody's bad
11:10 no that's right the whole label bad
11:12 already reflects a certain way of
11:14 looking at something you know yes and
11:16 there really are no bad kids you know
11:18 now the fourth need of children so the
11:21 the attention relationship the rest and
11:23 the fourth one is free spontaneous play
11:26 art and nature and fees spontaneous play
11:28 that emerges from the child is not
11:31 programmed for them by some external
11:34 institution or or toy it's more
11:36 essential than intellectual stimulation
11:39 because the emotional scaffolding of our
11:41 brains provides the template for healthy
11:44 intellectual development and so in our
11:46 kindergarten in our schools and in our
11:49 homes there should be far more emphasis
11:51 and spontaneous creative play than on
11:53 the teaching of facts or the teaching of
11:56 Technology why do they play because this
11:58 is how they develop into adults and
12:00 we've taken that away from our kids so
12:03 those four needs in our society are
12:05 frustrated in so many ways and then we
12:07 wonder why so many kids are diagnosed
12:09 with this or that so-called disorder and
12:11 then we're trying to treat the kid and
12:13 medicate the kid instead of looking at
12:15 the environment in the context which
12:17 creates the problem in the first place
12:19 yeah people ask me a lot I'm sure they
12:20 ask you too like is it harder to parent
12:23 these days like is it is is it harder we
12:25 see all these statistics of kids and the
12:26 things you're struggling with and
12:29 suicide rates and you know and teenagers
12:30 and one of the things related to your
12:33 your last point about play and also just
12:35 related to attachment and right what
12:37 kids want more than anything else is to
12:39 feel connected to their parents and and
12:41 all and I know you're open about parts
12:42 of your parenting too but one of the
12:44 things I think about a lot
12:46 is what percentage of the time when I
12:48 looked at my parents did they have a
12:49 device between me and them like
12:51 literally it was Zero there weren't
12:52 devices you could carry around what
12:54 percentage of the time that one of my
12:56 kids looks at me do they not even see my
12:58 face but might they see literally
13:00 something blocking
13:02 their attachment with me not only their
13:05 screens my screens right yes the
13:07 parenting is much more difficult than it
13:08 should have been or it is done by Nature
13:12 if we understand human evolution then
13:14 um for hundreds of thousands of years
13:17 human beings and our precursors lived in
13:19 small band hunter-gather groups where
13:20 children were always there on their
13:23 parents and even our own species Homo
13:26 sapiens no in the United States today 25
13:29 of mothers have to go back to work
13:31 within two weeks are giving birth the
13:33 mother doesn't intend it that way it's
13:36 economic constraints that force her to
13:38 go back to work but it means that the
13:41 children loses the relationship the
13:43 constant contact with the parent that
13:46 his her their system naturally demands
13:49 for a much longer period of time and
13:51 even parents who are able to stay home
13:53 they're very stressed they don't have
13:56 the support of the community the clan
13:58 the extended family they're isolated so
14:00 we have a good inside Community there's
14:03 so many parents and I asked them to
14:07 share questions for you uh let's hear
14:09 from Megan
14:11 hi my name is Megan and I'm a mom to a
14:12 three and a half year old and a
14:15 two-year-old my question is for Dr Gabor
14:16 mate as it relates to sleep training
14:19 specifically the Ferber method or other
14:21 forms that are more or less that
14:23 my understanding is that he used to
14:24 advocate for it and promote sleep
14:27 training as a physician and now he
14:28 believes that it's harmful to an
14:30 infant's development and their long-term
14:32 emotional health
14:34 so my question is does he believe that
14:35 sleep training is detrimental to
14:37 development in an environment that
14:40 otherwise promotes a secure attachment
14:43 with primary caregivers and what would
14:44 he say to all the parents who have
14:46 practiced sleep training their children
14:48 I personally have sleep trains one of my
14:51 children and not the other I'm curious
14:53 to know what he says about the long-term
14:54 impact of sleep training on the one
14:58 child I did sleep train yes first of all
15:00 we have to say that state training would
15:01 desire to practice it is very
15:03 understandable in our society when we
15:05 were parenting in its communities and
15:07 his groups and extended families
15:09 parents had other adults to hold the kid
15:13 while they're rested so how we evolved
15:14 is there was no need for sleep training
15:16 a bear doesn't have to sleep during the
15:18 bear cubs cat mother doesn't have to
15:20 Sleep Train the little kittens kids
15:21 don't need to be trained her to sleep
15:24 they know how to sleep it's just that
15:26 they have needs and one of their needs
15:28 is that a passionate relationship and
15:30 that attachmentship is not time by the
15:32 hour you know so when they're lonely
15:35 they cry that cry is designed to bring
15:37 the parent to pick them up and to hold
15:41 them so Dr Spock who for decades was the
15:43 parenting Maven to millions of parents
15:46 talked about The Chronic resistance to
15:48 sleep of the infant the infants doesn't
15:50 have resistance to sleep
15:52 if it just sleeps when they want to
15:53 sleep and they want to be awake when
15:55 they're awake and as they grow older
15:57 they learn to sleep through the night
16:00 Spock's advice was that how you resist
16:01 the tyranny of the infant that's what he
16:04 called it is you will put them in a
16:05 badge you walk out of their room and you
16:07 shut the door and you don't go back in
16:09 other words you ignore the child's
16:13 desperate cries for attachment and being
16:15 held so
16:17 what are we teaching children why why
16:19 your kids crying either because they're
16:21 physically uncomfortable or hungry or
16:22 because the emotionally they need you
16:24 when you don't meet that need what
16:26 message does the child get that the
16:28 needs don't matter
16:30 like they don't matter that their
16:32 emotions will not be responded to on the
16:34 from the physiological level the kid is
16:37 stressed that's why they're crying when
16:40 a kid's stressed cortisol the stress
16:43 hormone is coursing through their body
16:46 when you pick up the child the cortisol
16:48 level go down when you don't pick up the
16:50 child the stress gets worse until the
16:52 child gives up becomes apathetic and
16:54 goes back to sleep to escape from the
16:55 distress now you've trained them to
16:58 sleep you've also taught them that their
17:00 emotions that their existence doesn't
17:03 matter to you now this is in a very this
17:05 is a very Stark way of putting it
17:09 however it's not the only Factor so if
17:11 parents absolutely have to sleep to in
17:12 their kids because their life is
17:14 impossible otherwise I'm not here to
17:17 blame them for that it's not the way it
17:18 ought to be
17:21 our culture really lets parents down by
17:22 putting that kind of pressure on them
17:25 what for example if that was decent
17:27 child support so that parents didn't
17:29 have to go back to work
17:31 then they wouldn't have to sleep all
17:32 night then they could you know look
17:34 after their kids so this is another
17:36 personal parenting failures we're
17:37 looking at the whole culture that just
17:39 doesn't value the importance of
17:41 connected parenting
17:44 but but but if you're in that situation
17:47 at least recognize that you are whether
17:49 you like it or not hurting your kid and
17:52 compensate for it during the day hold
17:55 them a lot really respond to them attach
17:57 with them connect with them attune with
18:00 them then you're mitigating the harm
18:03 so this is such a thoughtful question
18:05 from Megan and Gabor one of the things
18:08 that you talk about a lot which I
18:10 appreciate is parents are not equipped
18:12 or set up for any type of kind of
18:14 success in the world we live in right
18:18 the demands on adults and on Families
18:21 versus the lack of you know support of
18:24 any type always would mean if you're not
18:26 set up for Success everybody in any
18:27 situation would have to be making
18:29 decisions that are less than ideal
18:33 exactly so I know for me you know as a
18:34 pragmatist what I would say to parents
18:37 also listening is we do the best we can
18:40 with the resources we have and
18:42 what I know from a lot of parents who
18:44 have decided to Sleep Train is the
18:46 version of a human being they could be
18:49 while they weren't sleeping was really
18:51 really low and and if that's you
18:54 listening what I want to say is
18:57 putting any one decision aside making a
19:00 decision that you feel like I have to do
19:02 this even though it doesn't feel good to
19:04 show up for the other hours like I
19:06 understand that and those are those are
19:09 hard decisions to make and decisions
19:12 that you probably had to make and I do
19:14 think whatever research shows to me
19:16 about sleep training
19:19 I have a hard time imagining that it's
19:22 that versus things that are not able to
19:24 be measured attuning to your kid during
19:26 the day like you said picking them up
19:30 even saying hey last night you cried a
19:33 lot you wanted me and I didn't comment I
19:35 know that felt bad and yes or someone's
19:37 thinking I should say that to my
19:40 six-month-old yes yes you should do they
19:42 understand they do do they understand
19:44 the same way a 16 year old would no but
19:47 yes they understand and they get it and
19:51 that matters and you did not I'm just
19:52 gonna say this you did not mess up your
19:55 kid forever if you let them cry when you
19:58 needed sleep and if it feels right Megan
20:00 to say to your kid even though they
20:01 might look at you like what are you
20:03 talking about you know when you were a
20:06 baby and you you know you cried
20:10 sometimes at night and I didn't come and
20:12 I know at least the part of your memory
20:14 that's with words doesn't remember it
20:16 but I remember it and it felt bad and I
20:18 wanted to let you know that I know that
20:21 felt bad and I love you like that I
20:22 always think about repair like I think
20:24 that matters what do you think about
20:26 that well I totally agree with you and
20:27 that's what I was trying to say the
20:28 previous question if you have to do it
20:30 because the circumstances just constrain
20:32 you to do it at least realize what's
20:34 being lost and compensate for it as best
20:36 you can yeah you know so so sometimes we
20:38 have to give up things that nature would
20:41 have us do and most parents when they
20:43 sleep in their babies if you ask them
20:44 how did you feel while you're doing it
20:46 their heart was breaking because the
20:49 Apparently Instinct was screaming for
20:51 them to pick up that child so if you
20:53 really decide that you have to just as
20:55 you say then Becky at least attune with
20:58 the child and empathize with them and I
21:01 want to move to another question that's
21:04 also about childhood so this is um the
21:05 question I'm gonna play Let's listen it together
21:06 together
21:08 I have a question for Gabor around
21:11 building resilience and empathy in our
21:13 kids I love the way you teach
21:16 resiliences the ability to tolerate discomfort
21:17 discomfort
21:20 but for so many of us resilience was
21:21 taught as being
21:24 tough not letting things get you down
21:26 pushing through
21:30 and often shutting down feelings I've
21:32 also noticed people that don't seem to
21:33 cope well with discomfort feel
21:36 everything very deeply and have great
21:39 empathy but often as a result of
21:42 codependency so I'm curious to hear
21:45 gabor's thoughts on how to Foster
21:47 resilience and empathy in our kids
21:50 simultaneously is validating feelings
21:54 the key and is this enough well
21:55 well
21:56 um there's no contradiction between
21:58 resilience and empathy in fact the more
22:00 resilient the person is the more likely
22:01 they will they're going to be able to be
22:04 empathetic to others so resilience is
22:07 not pushing through you know I in the
22:09 book I give the example of a very famous
22:13 politician uh Hillary Clinton who the
22:14 night she was nominated for the
22:17 Democratic presidency in 2016.
22:20 they had a video of her life
22:24 shown on public television in front of
22:26 the thousands assembled at the
22:29 Democratic Democratic Convention and she
22:30 was talking about her mother helped to
22:33 become resilient and tough and the
22:34 example she gave was
22:36 that she's four years old she's being
22:39 bullied by neighborhood kids and she
22:41 runs into the house to seek protection
22:43 from the mom and the mom says there's no
22:45 room for cards in his house now you get
22:47 out there and deal with those kids
22:50 and this was given as an example of
22:51 resilience building
22:54 and the millions of people watching it
22:56 the commentators the journalists nobody
22:58 realized that what was being celebrated
23:00 is the traumatization of a child
23:02 because a four-year-old child who runs
23:04 for protection for mother is not a
23:06 coward she's a child
23:08 that's the natural thing to do the real
23:10 message to the child is that there's no
23:12 room for your vulnerability you have to
23:13 suck it up
23:16 60 years later the candidate becomes ill
23:18 with pneumonia do you all remember what
23:21 she did with it she got feverish and
23:22 dehydrated and she collapsed in the street
23:23 street
23:25 her secret servicemen had to lift her
23:26 into the van
23:29 because she was sucking it up
23:31 for the sake of Continuum
23:33 that's not resilience
23:35 that's ignoring your own needs is what
23:37 it is
23:38 resilience is
23:41 when you squeeze a rubber ball and it
23:44 gets defined and smaller I mean Let It
23:47 Go it bounced back to its original size
23:51 and capacities results in human terms is
23:52 the capacity to grow from negative
23:54 experience not to become more
23:56 constricted that's what resilience is
23:59 now how you teach resilience is you
24:02 teach faith in the person's capacity
24:06 to heal and to understand themselves you
24:08 know you do that is by fully accepting
24:10 and loving and supporting the child
24:12 and when you do that they will also
24:15 naturally develop empathy you yeah like
24:17 I I mean going back to attachment and
24:19 connection and aloneness right when a
24:21 kid is is really upset about something
24:23 they were bullied they were left out you
24:24 know they didn't make the soccer team
24:27 their body's gonna remember whether that
24:30 feeling was encoded in aloneness or
24:33 encoded in attachment and we all know
24:34 there's power in numbers right so your
24:37 kid's body remembers your parental
24:41 presence around that tough emotion which
24:43 inherently makes it you know a little
24:46 easier to cope with over time and so
24:48 yeah the idea of resilience is not as
24:50 toughening up but I love what you said
24:52 too of kind of expanding from an
24:53 experience or growing or not being alone
24:56 you know is a big difference just like I
24:57 think empathy there's a big difference
25:00 too right empathy to me it's not feeling
25:03 other people's feelings for them right
25:05 actually empathy requires really firm
25:07 boundaries between what is mine and what
25:10 is yours so people who are empathic
25:12 don't take on the feelings of others at
25:13 all right maybe that's more you know
25:15 codependency if you had to name it as
25:18 something but empathy actually requires
25:20 seeing oh that is that person's feelings
25:22 not mine I care about that person I care
25:25 about those feelings but I don't have to
25:27 take them into my body and process them
25:29 as if they're my own exactly and and a
25:30 lot of
25:33 but people call Compassion fatigue I I
25:35 often say that nobody gets tired of
25:37 being compassionate compassion is part
25:40 of our nature what they get tired of is
25:41 taking on other people's problems
25:43 because they lack compaction for
25:45 themselves you know so that empathy is
25:48 both fellow feeling with boundaries it's
25:52 not fellow feeling without boundaries so what
25:52 what
25:54 knowing that there's a lot of parents
25:57 listening to this knowing that also it's
25:59 easy when we hear new information to go
26:01 into uh I'm the worst I messed up my kid
26:03 forever mode I know I can do that too
26:07 any any last kind of words for you know
26:09 for the parents here yeah well I often
26:12 talk to groups of parents or groups in
26:14 which there's a lot of parents and I say
26:16 if you're worried about having screwed
26:17 up your kids don't worry about it of
26:20 course you did we all do you know we
26:21 can't help it in this particular culture
26:24 I certainly passed on my promise to my
26:27 kids first of all look at yourself the
26:29 fact is you did your best be all do our best
26:30 best
26:32 a best is constrained by what we know or
26:34 don't know about ourselves when we
26:35 become parents when I became a parent
26:37 there's a whole lot I didn't know about
26:40 myself and to the extent that I didn't I
26:42 passed on some of my issues to my kids
26:45 but they're also resilient they were
26:47 loved it's not a question of are they
26:49 without problems do they have the
26:51 capacity to work out those problems so
26:54 drop the guild is what I said parents
26:56 you did your best in a very difficult
26:58 culture in what I would say is a toxic
27:01 environment for parenting in many ways
27:02 and um
27:05 stay open to your kids at whatever age
27:07 if you have to own what you've missed or
27:08 what you did that you shouldn't have
27:12 done own it your guilt doesn't help your
27:14 kids in fact your kids don't want to be
27:15 seen Through The Eyes of your guilt
27:17 nobody wants to be seen as somebody
27:19 else's mistake or somebody else's
27:21 failure your kids don't deserve that
27:22 they don't need it then it's not good
27:24 for them yeah realize that you you
27:25 probably did
27:28 missed some things that you ought to
27:30 have done you you pass did some things
27:32 that you shouldn't have done
27:35 but you did do your best and continue to
27:37 do your best it's never too late to
27:39 develop a great relationship with you
27:41 kids never
27:47 thanks for listening to share a story or
27:50 ask me a question go to goodinsside.com
27:54 podcast you could also write me at
28:00 parenting is the hardest and most
28:02 important job in the world
28:04 and parents deserve resources and
28:06 support so they feel empowered confident
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28:25 good inside with Dr Becky is produced by
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28:42 Valenzuela and the rest of the good
28:43 inside team
28:46 and One Last Thing Before I Let You Go
28:49 let's end by placing our hands on our
28:52 hearts and reminding ourselves
28:54 even as I struggle
28:57 and even as I have a hard time on the outside
28:58 outside
29:03 I remain good inside foreign
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