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How To Find Direction When Nothing Feels Right - Chris Bumstead (4K)

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The conversation explores the profound personal transition from elite competition to retirement, focusing on the challenges of finding new direction, processing suppressed emotions, and redefining self-worth beyond external achievements.

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You've stopped competing and you're more

tired than ever. How's retirement going?

>> It's a great question.

It's a very broad question to start. I

don't even know where to dive into that.

It's both good and bad in different

ways. I would say it's interesting

because when people ask me if I miss

competing, especially right now with the

Olympic coming up, it's like there's

parts that I miss, but I don't wish I

was doing it. Like I trained with Ryan

Terry and like seeing the mindset he's

in, remembering the pressure I felt and

everything that came with it. I was like

I don't wish I was there right now, but

there's aspects I miss. I'm happy with

my decision, but there's also a lot of

like feeling of like lost in direction

and what am I doing, where am I going

right now? And I feel like I've filled

that up with a lot of busy work. I feel

like in the last year there's been

business, there's been being a dad,

there's been just moving on to one thing

to another. And I haven't slowed down to

really process like life is very

different now. You know, you had 10

years of chasing a single goal of being

the best in the world at one thing that

was eat, sleep, train, and now it's gone,

gone,

>> you know. So, it's definitely been

interesting. But I feel like the fact

that I'm feeling a lot now in terms of

like a bit of stress, this tired in my

body, this like somatic experience that

I might not have before, it like shows

that things are coming up that might

have been masked by the overwhelming

pressure of competing. M

>> so there's like this side of me

discovering like the new side of myself

like this ego death of like body's gone

now who are you and then there's this

other part of my life that's like the

most incredible aspect which is being a

father now you know my daughter's

getting old enough to say my name me and

my wife are getting the hang of things

we're really starting to find our groove

in that so it's like the most beautiful

thing in my life and I feel like they're

kind of balancing each other out

>> but it's still not like neutral peace >> but

>> but

>> I've heard you say physically and

emotionally you don't feel much until

slow down. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. That was a

big awakening for this year for me. I

feel like year after year after year

it's like Olympia hero's journey kind of

compete, come down, go through it. Some

type of adverse event, come through it

again, win, high, back down, repeat,

repeat, repeat. And I was never able to

really experience things. And I feel

like what I really found out about

myself recently is that I like

constantly feel like I need to improve

something in myself. Like I constantly

need more. or I need to progress at

something. I need to make my health

better. I need to

do X more. And I was channeling that

heavily into bodybuilding, which made me

an incredible bodybuilder. But once what

once drove me started to drain me over

time. So, it's kind of started to alter.

And now slowing down and not having that

singular goal I was working towards, I

realized now I'm trying to find all

these other external things to progress

in as if I need to be proving myself

that I'm getting better and better and I

can't just rest and be good enough as

things are. M

>> and I don't think I would have

experienced that if I hadn't actually

properly retired and stepped away from

it. So, it's one of the journeys

currently experiencing.

>> Lots of things get hidden under momentum

and bravado and

attention and chaos.

>> You hide all of the quiet fleeting

thoughts. You're like, "No, shut up. I

don't need to listen to you." Like,

>> quiet down subconscious. I've got a

competition to win or a podcast to

record or whatever.

>> I can go to the gym. I can focus on

eating. I do this. Don't think about it.

>> Yeah. You get pulled through those

little fleeting thoughts with the momentum

momentum

>> Oh, [ __ ] All of those fleeting thoughts

are kind of they're not drowned out as

easily anymore.

>> Yeah. No, I definitely had this like

selective emotional efficiency where I

could like understand

what was important to me and how to

actively work towards the things and

like practical capabilities of applying

specific things,

>> you know, like bodybuilding is

important. Prioritize life for that. It

makes me feel better to do these

physical things X Y and Z, but I wasn't

really feeling the things I needed to

feel in the same way. So like the

practical capabilities of understanding

emotion and lining up life so I was in a

good place with good but the ability to

express the good and the bad through it.

the kind of messier side of things

>> wasn't really my expertise

>> and it put me in this state of like

constant hypervigilance that could be

easily hidden from by momentum and

competing and I could fuel energy and

more success and more and more and more

and I was falling forward and going good

but eventually I was just tired you know

it was like this lack of deep rest and

like it's the joke that I have the worst

HRV ever you my average is 29 now we're

chilling that's going on brought it back up

>> going on the way up and I don't know if

that's even connected to it but I don't

need to have an HRV on my wrist to tell

me that like they're like, "Do you feel

calm?" I'm like, "Yeah, do you feel

stressed?" Not really, but like have you

had deep rest recently? Have you felt

deeply calm and at peace? And it's like,

"Not really." You know, cuz it's

constantly moving through that thing and

that state of hypervigilance of am I

safe to express this emotion or am I

trying to control progress forward and

the practical capabilities to be perfect

and progressing in my life so I feel

like I'm doing enough rather than just

sitting in the moment of what I need to

feel. M

>> to me I feel like I've been rewarded

heavily for that side of practical

capability but still the expression of

emotion the going through things rather

than learning felt very like high risk

low reward for me so my body just as a

way to protect hid from it but being

constantly hypervigilant means you're

constantly on constantly kind of stress

aware even if I'm not aware of it it's

like subconsciously happening hence the

feeling of tired now you know I don't

have that energy burst from the success

and progress that's gone in terms of

bodybuilding. So now I'm able to feel

what I've always been really experiencing

experiencing

>> for who knows how long

>> process through.

>> Funny to say that

you don't get rewarded necessarily from

being tapped in to the subtler emotions.

kind of like um if you needed to drink 2

L of wine a day, you probably wouldn't

be quite as attuned to the lighter notes

and the subtle flavors because you've

just got [ __ ] to do. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And big goals. Uh especially one that's

very difficult. You don't have time to

indulge yourself in, oh, I wonder if

this is connected to that thing that

happened when I was in third grade. Shut

up. Like, I need to win this

competition. You know, I don't have

time. And you're right. It's it's not a

performance enhancer. Yeah. H

>> how is

maybe and I would put you as far as

world champions go in the time that

we've spoken

significantly more attuned than anyone

else that I've spoken to and even you

are saying and I was hiding most of that

and it's all coming up now that I've

finished and so on and so forth. So you

can only think if you're the, you know,

the Tiger Woodses of the world, the

Michael Jordans of the world, the guys

who kind of made it their brand almost

to um continue to drive through to not

do the tap-in thing unless it unless the

emotion was in service of the

performance directly. It wasn't an

emotion that was permitted, if that

makes sense. Um, I I had this

uh journal entry from before I even

started the podcast when I'd started

doing personal development. And I

remember reflecting on why I always felt

like I needed to make progress every

single day. And I wonder if this

resonates with you at least part of it I

think was

even if I don't like myself right now

and even if I feel insufficient and not

enough right now if I can project that

where where I will be in future is going

to be better doesn't matter that I think

I might be a little bit of a piece of

[ __ ] in the moment because tomorrow will

be okay like I don't love myself today

but I might love myself tomorrow because

I'm moving moving in the direction of

better and that's dopamine and that's

reward and that's progress. But as soon

as that starts to either flatten or you

know very worst if it feels like it

slows down you go oh god not only am I

not enough today but I might be even

less tomorrow and I need to take my

sense of selfworth from somewhere

different. I need to take it from

God, my honesty or, you know, my

openness or uh mundane successes and

boring victories or the fact that I was

kind to that lady at the supermarket

today. Like how pitiful, how small is

your life? That that's what's going on.

It's not grand enough. It's not

impressive enough. And you're not moving

in the right direction. You always need

to be making progress. Mhm. So this um

the addiction to progress and what it

feels like to be in progress rehab is uh

something that I I I feel very much as well.

well.

>> Yeah. I feel like it's a tough battle

too because if you don't have

a goal or something you're working to in

your life, it feels like your life has

no meaning in a sense. You know, there's

like the idea of that gap between like

the man you know you can be versus the

man you are. And it's almost like the

meaning you find in life is in the

journey between those two.

>> But it's kind of about the tension

between the two. So much about the

journey. If there's too much tension of

I need to do X to be good enough or I

need X, then it starts to hurt, you

know? And it needs to be I was thinking

about this the other day. It needs to be

the goal needs to be a free choice. And

I don't think I don't mean a free choice

of like someone's making you do it, but

like if you were to think about it your

brain like do you think your mind is free?

free?

That's a good question.

>> As a whole,

>> I don't know. That's a good question.

>> It's not easily. Of course, I'm free.

Yes. Like, are the decisions you make

about like I made the decision to

compete in bodybuilding like okay, I

did, but am I making I'm making the

decision to stay technically, but is it

a free choice if I feel like I have to

do it to be good enough? If I feel like

my self worth and my identity to is

attached to competing now,

>> so this goal I have, this journey I have

now has this intense tension because

it's not a free choice of or a positive

choice. It's not a free choice of like

this is wanting to do this. It's like I

have to do this to be good enough.

>> So if you can re-evaluate those goals

and when I started about it was kind of

just like the gym was a beautiful place

for me to go and escape and enjoy it.

And I loved it. Started to see progress

and it changed over time. It just kind

of like shifted into a bit of a pressure

and I started to tie my identity to it

and like kind of like I needed a lot of

aspects of it and I never wanted to. I

never wanted to attach my ego to it.

thought I was different because I was

aware that attaching your identity to

something would be bad. So I was like,

cuz I'm aware that's possible, I'm not

going to do it.

>> You knew it up here, but you were still

motivated by it.

>> Exactly. It was like a shell game in my

mind of being like this illusion I

created around myself of like, okay,

well, if I know that, I can tell myself

I'm not and just ignore the fact that I

really am. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And maybe there's nothing wrong with that.

that.

>> It's just a more sophisticated version

of cope.

>> Exactly. Yeah.

>> But you're culpable for it because you know,

know,

>> it's even worse because you think, well,

I've got nowhere to hide. I have no

escape from this. The uh Steven

Presfield talks about

>> uh shadow careers.

>> So he worked in Hollywood for ages

before he became a successful author and

he saw lots of people whose original

aspiration was to become an actor or a director

director

>> and they were scared of going for the

big one. So they ended up working close

to it but in a slightly adjacent

industry. So they'd be uh an attorney,

an entertainment attorney, or they'd be

an agent or something. So they didn't

actually go after the thing that they

wanted, but they went for something that

was close, which is that like escape

valve sort of trapdo thing that they've

got that's going on. So I guess

were you aware before you decided to

retire and retired

how difficult retirement would be from a existential

existential

who am I in the world's place.

>> It's funny the way my mind works is like

a sense of cope. I'm like I know it's

going to be hard. It's not now but I

know it's going to come but I don't know

what's going to come. M and I think what

I thought I was going to miss was like

being Mr. Olympia, getting on stage,

prep, all the things in between. But

it's like

the reason I feel like I mean the words

thrown around, but it feels like a

genuine ego death is cuz I was so

unaware of what it hit me. And one of

the moments where it hit me really hard

and I'm not even proud to admit this is

I went on Instagram and I looked at my

followers and it was like last month you

decreased 10,000. And I was like, oh, I

had this feeling in my body that I

didn't like that. And I was like, I've

told myself for a decade that I don't

give a [ __ ] about that. But it's easy to

say when it's just constant skyrocket

up. Like I don't care about the success.

I'm not attached to this. And then all

of a sudden it was like not there. And I

was like it just made me really go

inside and be like what? Like what was I

doing it for? What did I really care

about? What was like the have toss that

I had to do it to be good enough? Was it

because of the attention and all this

stuff before it was like

the love of the sport? It was love of

bodybuilding and then it became this

attachment to this like need of like

what came with it. You know, I started

to love the outcome. You know, when

you're doing something for an outcome,

you're more like bound to it. You're

stuck to it. It's creating like a tension.

tension.

>> And I think I really that was like a

very modernday millennial ego death wake

up for me to be like, damn, I thought I

was better than that. And then I had to

like really be honest with myself

clearly you were attached to that and

now you might lose it all. Would you be

okay with that? Would you be okay with

it all gone? what's what's left, you

know, and it really made me reflect back

on my career of like what served me

throughout and why I decided to retire

and the fact that like I wasn't getting

anything from it anymore that was

serving me. My values started to shift,

but I was still doing things in my life

that were bringing in more and more

success that were separate from my most

important values.

>> And it was almost take taking away from

what my values were. And I feel like one

of the most important things I've done

the last few years is like consistently

reeal re-evaluate my values and try and

make decisions based off the highest

ones even if in the moment I don't

really feel like it's what I want. So

like competing I could have kept

winning. I could have kept getting more

followers and more money and more fame

and more success and more X. But those

things weren't of high value to me

anymore. you know, starting to be a

family, discovering who I was, being

present with my family, having a mind

that is emotional in tune enough to be

there for my family and to enjoy life

and to enjoy all the stuff I'd worked

for. Those were values that were much

more important to me. So then I started

to have this like

different feeling around bodybuilding.

And going into the last year, I didn't

even I wasn't enjoying it. It was more

of an attitude of like I have to go work

out so I can win the Olympia.

>> Mhm. rather than like I get to [ __ ]

train today and I have the opportunity

to be the best in the world if I do it

right. It was just this different

mindset shift that I realized in myself

of why I was like this isn't for me

anymore. It's time for me to get off the

stage because this isn't serving me and

this isn't the proper reason. You know,

why you start something typically

changes over time. And like I said

earlier, like why you start something

might have driven you, but now if it

drains you, it's time to reevaluate what

you're doing. And that was a huge

important thing for me to do and make

this decision. and all those stuff are

incredible. Don't get me wrong. It's not

like my don't value having money and

attention. It's like I'm human. I enjoy

it, but it's not what was making me feel

good dayto-day. It was taking away from

my ability to be at home. And I would be

like, I have to eat again. I missed a

meal. I came to an event and I lost a

pound. Am I going to be are my legs big

enough this year? I feel like my waist

got bigger. Like on that day, that one

day, that 10 minutes on stage, am I

going to be good enough to be the best

in the world? That pulls you away from

being present in your day-to-day life

cuz you're constantly worrying about

that. And that's because I became more

attached to the outcome than just the

love of the game.

>> The idea that you're able to

talk in this very

mindful, elevated, enlightened approach,

um this sort of abundance mindset when

everything is going in the right

direction is such a good insight. It's

fantastic. you know, it's the uh the

billionaire that's able to be generous

>> um as opposed to the person whose wealth

is going in the other direction. So,

well, how generous are you if things

start to feel a little bit more scarce,

even if you still have lots of money,

but they're going in the wrong

direction. And um we spoke about this on

stage at the Gym Shark event, but

modeling somebody's rise, not their

result, I think is a really important

insight that hasn't fully caught

everyone's attention yet. Cuz when you

ask most people that have the platform

to be able to give advice have got the

platform because they're successful. And

if they're successful, that means that

they have done something for a

sufficiently long time at a grand enough

scale for people to consider them an

authority in one form or another.

>> But the problem is you

almost certainly are at the beginning of

your career and they are the person at

the top of the mountain. They might be

able to remember what they were doing 6

months ago or one year ago or right now

and the challenges and the very

particular sort of unique elite

stratosphere that they're in that they

need to deal with. They can't remember

what it was like to be a beginner. Yeah.

So when you ask somebody

what is the key to success in business

and they say well you know it's all

about work life balance. I think it's

very important. You know you you need to

be using your intuition and your gut.

And you go huh. What did you do when you

were at my stage? It's like oh

everything was completely planned out

and I didn't have any time for my

friends or family. You go right.

>> I should probably do what you did when

you were my stage not what you do now

that you have the luxury to do whatever

you want. And I think with

Yeah. talking about how

I'm above this the shallow need for

validation and social

love from those around me and the

strangers on the internet. You know,

it's all I don't need it. Well, yeah,

you don't because you have an abundance

of it. You have so much there's a surplus.

surplus.

>> What happens when it feels like that's

being taken away from you? You kind of

that old adage of you don't know what

you've got until it's gone. You don't

know what you valued until it starts to

decrease a little bit. >> So

>> So

>> yeah, even in like the like the

emotional side of what's driving you,

it's like, well, I the whole time

thought it was bad to be driven by like,

oh, I'm not good enough, so I need to

accomplish X to be good enough. And it's

I don't think that's a way to live, but

maybe that's a good way to start. A lot

of people are driven to high levels of

success by doing that. And maybe that

puts you in a position of abundance, of

success, to show you the things that are

important to you, to give you enough

confidence, to give you enough life

experience to go inside and reflect on

ways that you can find lasting genuine selfworth.

selfworth.

>> You know, maybe if you're like, well,

no, you shouldn't do something

>> because you're not good enough. Well,

then maybe you never start, you know, or

maybe it makes you an incredible

bodybuilder. You go on this huge run and

you're able to go on this journey of

self-discovery and then figure it out in

the end. But I wouldn't have changed

that going back of whyever I started

even if it was coming from a insecure or

bad place because it got me to the place

>> I am now.

>> Especially at the beginning you just

need to use whatever fuel you've got. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And just go.

>> Yeah. This is again it's model the rise

not the result. It's all well and good

saying it's this beautiful balance. You

know, I don't really think about the

chip on my shoulder or the parents that

didn't believe in me or the teachers

that were mean to me at school. Well,

yeah, because you you used that fuel

when you needed to get off the launch

pad and then you used another bit of

fuel after that and then it was your

competition and then it was just

something else and now that you're

like floating out in space. Cool. Okay.

Yeah, sweet. You've got this much more

balance because you've worked through

all of those things. Each one of those

was a little, you know, the idea of

false peaks in mountaineering. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, you look and you go, "Oh,

we're at the top." [ __ ] No, we're not.

We're at the top. Yeah. [ __ ] Not this

time either. And um that those were all

false peaks. All of those. And it's only

after reaching them and then going,

"Damn it, I I thought that was the

thing. I thought that was going to be it."

it."

>> That you have to restart and go again

and go again. And um yeah, this is a

homozyism where he says, you know, um

use the fuel you can. And at the start,

most people have way more hate than they

do love. So yeah, all of the chips on

your shoulder and the bitterness and

resentment that you've got, you just use

it. You the the need for validation, the

want to prove yourself. I got to get the

girl. I got to do the riches. I need to,

you know,

>> fine. I don't think that that's a bad

thing. And I think it's largely a luxury

belief of people who have big platforms

that can say this is the thing that you

should do from the very start because

it's not how they got there.

>> It's not how I got here. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> It's not how you got to where you are either.

either.

>> Yeah. 100%. Even in that direct form

when I was competing, I was at the end I

was like, I'm not trying to beat anyone.

I don't know who's going to come second.

I don't even think about it. I'm just

know I'm going to come in and be my best

and I'm going to win.

>> But like I didn't start like that.

Especially when I was second place, I

was like, I'm beating that guy, you

know? I'm coming after him. It's a very

different game.

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and modernwisdom a checkout. If you

hadn't won, crazy world, I know. If you

hadn't won, would you have still retired

>> this year? That's an incredible

question. I actually haven't even

It's so funny cuz I went into that year

without even like

every year and my sister one year looked

at me in the Olympia. She's like, "Are

you ever going to [ __ ] believe you're

going to win?" Cuz I she's cuz it'd be

the day before

>> time three or four or five. It was like

in between prejudging and night show

when I just dominated the show. She's

like, "So, you feel good about it?" I

was like, "I don't know." Like, "Maybe

I'll win." She's like, "Are you ever

going to [ __ ] believe that you're

going to win?" Like, and I was and I

didn't. And then the last year I went

into that prep and I like I didn't even

like I had those moments of do I love

this? Do I not? And I worked my way back

to a point of like this is the last

time. And I enjoyed it and I like loved

the experience, but the whole time it

was just like am I going to do it? I'm

going to am I going to win or am I going

to not compete?

>> That was what was in my brain. I didn't

even think and it was finally that point

where I just believed in myself where I

knew like I know what to do. I know my

what I'm capable of and like I'm going

to come in and win if I do it.

>> So I never even thought about it. But

>> that is a champion mentality, right? Finally.

Finally.

>> I finally got it and I and I leave. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but no. Yeah. I like to believe that

I would have retired or

>> I would have stuck to my principles

>> regardless. And looking back now, I

can't I can't imagine being in a prep

right now, you know? And it, like I

said, it's very different because my

mind did just like release all these

focuses where it opened up the ability

to realize all these things that I had

been holding that might have been

creating tension in my life. So, I'm in

a state right now where I can't imagine

trying to lock in and focus on being so

selfish at something with a pregnant

wife, 16-month old year old daughter,

>> life-ch changing like it is, but

my ego would love to tell you. Hell

yeah, man. I would have retired

regardless. I wouldn't cared if I lost.

>> Well, it's a luxury belief because you

won. You can say whatever you want. You

can't go back and run it run the

experiment again.

>> Very true.

>> You know, Mark Cavendish, he's a cyclist

in the tour to France. British British

guy from Manchester I think

>> uh 37

38 now so older in the tour and he's a

sprinter as well and um the tour to

France Unchained if people need a good

documentary it's drive to survive

formula 1 but for the tour to France

they've done it for three years now and

uh in the second year he just needs one

stage win

to have the title of the most stage wins

in tour to France history so It's I

guess it must be a particular hack that

the sprinters have got that because they

work for the finish they actually end up

with more stage wins than the general

classification the yellow jersey and he

is going for it and he's saying this is

my final year I just need one stage win

and his wife's there and the kids are

there and he's sort of working himself

up to it and he has a couple of near

misses and then he has a big crash at at

the sprint finish

>> and he's devastated. Oh, no. He has I

think he it breaks his collarbone in

maybe a pilot partway through which is

even less glorious.

And uh the whole thing was this was

going to be the final year he was going

to win. And then season 3 comes along

and he's made this big song and dance.

He has this sort of tearful announcement

about how he's going to leave the sport

behind. And you I've given my given my

life to this sport and he raced for uh

England, Great Britain, all this stuff.

And then it comes back and it's him and

his wife. And his wife basically says,

"I know that you're not going to rest. I

know that you're not going to be

satisfied. He's like, what does it

matter? You said that you were going to

leave. You're not satisfied. So, run it

back. Do it again. And he does. And he

gets his victory. And he he sort of goes

out on his shield.

>> But the opposite of that is Jon Jones.

>> Jon Jones, uh, it seems, wanted to

vacate the title rather than lose it to

Tom Aspenol, who is real aggressive

fighter, also from Manchester.

it it just seems like he was so

concerned about his legacy being marred

with the final fight up against this

young very heavy very talented natural

heavyweight. Uh as opposed to John who's

maybe not quite so in his prime. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> And you have someone who in both cases

have got the same mentality which is my

final performance cannot be a loss. Yeah,

Yeah,

>> I either need to go back and do it again

in order to be able to achieve victory

or I need to bow out on my own terms as

people remember the way that you left

the party so to speak in that way. Like

the the footnote or the the the final

song, the encore of your entire career

is so amazing. Shame about how his final

competition went, you know, like when he

got beaten by whatever, whatever.

>> Yeah. So I it doesn't surprise me that

that would be a difficult question to answer.

answer.

>> Yeah. No, it's funny too. Hormosi sent

me a text going into the last prep and

he had like suspicions that I was going

to retire that year and he said

something I can't even remember exactly

what he said about me going and winning

or something and I threw like a little

flick back at him cuz we think very

differently and I like respect how like

what he does. Incredible. This is like

the beautiful champion mentality like

you can think however you want. You just

have to win. And I was like well what if

I lost? what about the lesson that I

could learn in the loss? And he was he

posted on Instagram the next day being

like, I got a text from someone last

night and it made me mad.

He went off and I commented like that

was me. But no, like genuinely like when

I like I was talking about my most

important values right now. If I trust

and believe in myself to live up to

those values, what I would have been

able to do was to use that loss,

something out of my control to take what

is in my control, how I handle it, to

learn something and try and apply it to

be the best version of myself and

>> to stick to my values and in trusting

myself, I would have still made the

decision that I know I need to step

away. Cuz before I won, before I had the

chance of losing, I had made the

decision why I was walking away. what it

was most

>> to do with

>> and it wasn't about if I win I'll lose

or if I lose it was unrelated to all

that stuff. It was or what's best for me

and my life and my family is to step

away right now and it's for the love

because I love the sport I'm walking

away so I don't put myself into position

where I'll resent it

>> cuz people who go too long then they'll

stop away and they'll look back at their

whole career with resentment either if

it leads to health issues or injuries or

on a loss or something. It taints it in

your own mind and it loses that like

>> kind of

beautiful like live you have on it.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. You're able to

yourself into

>> What's that with the rosecolored

glasses? You can look back and be like,

"It was perfect, you know." And I have

the privilege now to be like, "My career

was perfect." Which it was far from

>> Well, imagine if it had been the other

way and your only second place victory

had been the final one. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Why I was second before, but yes,

>> it' be my third second.

Did you ever secretly want to quit

before, but you stuck around due to expectation?

>> I'm still unraveling why I wanted to

quit before, but I did announce

privately that I was retiring after my

fifth win.

>> Right. So, one year prior when you

actually did it.

>> And that that was the year I had a

really bad injury. We had discovered

Courtney was pregnant. There was all

this stuff going on. There was some

personal all this like chaos in my life

that was pulling me away from focusing

on competing. And I was like, I couldn't

handle all of it in the moment. And I

was like, I can't do this anymore. And I

was stepping away from it. And I

realized I was stepping away from it in

fear. And because I had so much external

things muddying my decision of is it

because I don't love competing or is it

because of all these other things going

on right now.

>> The injury that almost made me lose. I

should have dropped out. I kept pushing

through all these things

>> that I wanted to give myself an

opportunity to try again and be in it

and be like, is this still for me? Can I

still do this and love it and want more

or am I going to compete again and be

like no I am then.

>> So I actually had this like double

moment of choosing whether or not I was

going to retire

>> and that I feel like that that was the

only time where I was really truly like

it wasn't even a quitting. It was like a

peaceful relief of I'm done. M

>> and then after half afterwards and this

is why I know this year is so different

cuz after that Olympia about a month

after I was like [ __ ]

>> I was like

>> told all of these people in my life have

to reverse the time.

>> I made this huge thing. I cried. I was

like this is so beautiful. I had a video

on my phone I recorded of me like

talking and I've only done this once in

my life of me crying in my gym after a

workout being like this is my last

Olympia like I got through this injury.

>> You didn't even do it when you actually

left the Olympia.

>> I did do it.

>> No. all the it's it's really cool cuz

there's some like unseen unspoken thing

that are all like that video will be in

the documentary that's coming out about it.

it.

>> So that video will be in it.

>> Yeah. I've never It's been in my hidden

album for no one to see.

>> Oh wow. That's it's in there with all of

the other unspeakable memes and stuff

that you

>> I couldn't I couldn't watch it. They

were like you need to send that to us. I

was like I can't go look at it. It's too embarrassing.

embarrassing.

>> Blindly like

>> Exactly. Yeah. But no, it was that was

really the only moment where I was like,

I'm done stepping away and then I had to

come back and be like, I'm not done. I'm

doing this again.

>> I think that suggests that it's the

right decision.

>> Yeah. And that was Sorry, that's what I

was getting. Yeah. I was immediately

after I knew I was like this tense like

I didn't make the right decision.

Whereas this year, I'm like waiting for

it to come back and I'm like, "Oh,

wait." Like I actually am at peace with

my decision. There's a lot I need to do

and figure out in life to be at peace in

life, but I'm at peace with my decision.

>> I suppose the I mean, this is a a huge

topic a lot of people deal with, which

is life change, life direction change.

You finish full-time education. You're

22, 23, and you're you've been in

full-time education since you were five,

university or something, and you go,

"Okay, I'm not in a set of train tracks

anymore, and I need to choose my own

direction." That's difficult. or you

want to change careers or move to a new

city or leave a relationship or start a

relationship or start a family or you

know these life directions that split

off in lots of different directions.

People have

loss aversion, scarcity mindset and some

cost fallacy and anchoring bias and the

need for validation. All of this stuff

just loops together in this big mess and

trying to untangle that is hard. I

suppose the the interesting thing that I

can think about with your situation,

which would be different for instance to

mine, you're working towards one very

big goal, which is basically success or failure,

failure,

and that has identity wrapped up in it

in the same way that I do, but it's not

there's no such thing as this is the

podcast that I would go out on and not

the next one or the next or the next

one. And there's not really the same

criteria of success and failure either.

Uh even in sports like football, uh I

guess maybe you've did you win the

league that year or not, but you're part

of a team. How well did you play? How

well did the team play? Is it really

about you or the team's performance or

your performance? And which league is it

that you won? Was it champions?

>> It's not expected for the same team to

win every year.

>> Exactly. Yeah. There's way more

variables in that. So, uh, as solo

sports go with a ruthless binary black

or white outcome with all of the

preparation working toward, how long do

you spend on stage each year? 10 minutes

maybe in total.

>> It's probably a little bit longer than

that for me, but under 20 probably.

>> Okay. So, whatever. 364 days, 23 hours,

and 40 minutes

of an entire 12 month period

>> to go on stage. Um, >> yeah,

>> yeah,

>> it's about I mean, I can't think of

I can't think of much else that's I

mean, maybe the presidency, you've got

four years to try and work toward that

as opposed to just one. The Olympics in

some ways, but at least, you know,

there's bits that you get to along

>> Olympics is intense, too. That's also

why you hear of the intense depression afterwards.

afterwards.

>> Gold medalist syndrome or silver

medalist syndrome.

>> Yeah. Or even just leaving the weekend.

They come back in four years.

>> You see a stat that um bronze medalists

are less depressed than silver medalists?

medalists? >> No.

>> No.

>> Because they weren't that close. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very funny.

>> Our minds are so crazy.

Has no longer having the Olympia

impacted your drive and passion in other

areas of your life? You know, you've got

the dad husband thing, business,

desire to work on yourself in a sort of

from a personal standpoint.

How have you found drive and motivation

separate and also wrapped up in what you

were doing previously? >> Mhm.

I wouldn't say it directly decreased

because there's no Olympia, but I think

almost as like a byproduct of what the

Olympia was for me of like a schedule of

a year of like the first half of the

year is X. You have some time off, you

can recover, give yourself a break, and

then you start to ramp up. You travel,

focus on business, and then near the

end, you go inward. You figure out

what's driving you, what's pulling you

back right now. self-reflect, spend time

away from [ __ ] focus on yourself,

be selfish, work, intense schedule, and

like it was this like organized routine,

and then all of a sudden it was all

gone. And that on top of the singular

goal of being like where do I put my

energy now? I think definitely left me

in a place of feeling a little bit lost

of not figuring out like where do I

still have the passion for anything?

Where do I find that energy to put into

something? What do I put it into? Does

it even exist? Will it exist again? And

then it kind of led to me then I had an

injury. I stopped working out for a

while and I just started to wake up in

the morning exhausted and not knowing

what to do going in and helping with

this business going on this trip for

travel and meeting here with a

distribution center all these little

things for all these other things that

weren't really like driving me. I didn't

have like an important big role in them.

I was just like kind of coasting

through. And I started to wake up and

feel pretty lost in general of like

where do I where am I progressing to

essentially? And that was when I was

kind of like what I'm honestly I'm still

working through it. I don't have this

answer, but a thing I'm working for is

just like empathizing with myself that I

don't need to be constantly progressing

towards something that I don't need to

be getting better and have this big goal

and doing X and I can just sit and rest

for a while and like truly just like do

nothing and be good enough as that is

and let something come and figure it as

it goes. And that's that was tough for

me is tough for me and speaking in proper

proper

>> verbiage of figuring that out. And the

funniest little thing of what has made

me feel better recently was working out

again on a schedule and eating five

meals a day and weighing out my food and

having that little bit of structure of

like and not having to as well. It's

like all this stuff's going on my life.

I don't know. I'm kind of lost. What can

I do? Well, I can go work out again

>> and I don't have to. So now I'm choosing

to. Well, why you still work out so

hard? Why are you training so hard? It's

like well I just cuz I love it. I feel good.

good.

>> Why I used to do it 12 years ago.

>> Exactly. And now it's all of a sudden

I'm getting more and more excited to go

back in the gym or even in prep last

year I started oh I have to go work out

and then all of a sudden I start to feel

better dayto-day and it's these little

changes and I realize this is truly how

I fell in love with the gym and why I'm

such a big advocate of weightlifting.

Like I honestly kind of hope I don't

inspire people to get into bodybuilding

cuz it's tough. It's [ __ ] up. It's not

good for your health. But I do want to

inspire people to go lift weights, get

in the gym and want to get jacked

because it's such like oh I'm lost. I

don't know what to do. Just go work out.

Apply some discipline. Work hard. Find

something you love that's like difficult

that shows you progress, builds

confidence, and just go do it. And then

from there, then you can clear your mind

a little bit, have self-confidence,

start looking around a little bit more,

clear, start looking inward and figuring

out what is next for you and finding

that next goal and working towards it.

So for me, that's why like I just

[ __ ] love the gym so much. And I'm so

grateful that I'm back to a point of

like loving the gym.

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[Laughter]

This is the cash value. Oh, this was the

price that you pay in retirement. I

think you know cuz what you're talking

about it's going to be difficult and

things will be hard and you won't have

the um the drive or the goal that you

used to in the past. All of those things

that kind of fluffy concepts but they

come into land. They actually sort of

meet reality with

>> I woke up on the morning and didn't know

what to do. I felt tired a lot. I didn't

want to train. I was short and snappy

with my business partners. I I found

myself getting distracted with lots of

little tasks because it made me feel

important and like people needed me. I

packed my calendar out and did cuz

>> a lot of the time in advance of

something happening, we probably have a

good idea about what it's going to be

like in the macro, but what we don't

know is how it's actually going to

appear, manifest in life. And it's

navigating those things. So, for

instance, I've been sick for the last 18

months or so, and that's been hard. And

I knew

based on what the trajectory was going

to be, what was going to be tough, that

I was going to have a lot of self-doubt,

that I was going to lose confidence and

self-esteem, that um I would feel like I

was moving backward, all of these

things. Uh but the way that that

actually appears like the individual

building block thoughts that you have

like that mean random little voice or

that one night where you ruminate about

that one thing or you're more sensitive

to criticism and that one comment from

that person or you can't really focus on

your meditation as much like none of

those are I am going to lose confidence

they are the individual incidents that

contribute to my confidence has gone

down even if you knew it was going to

happen in advance and even if in

retrospect you can say oh wow both of

these things converged each of the

little steps that occurred to make that

happen kind of come out of nowhere a

little bit because you don't know the

effect of each little thing. Does that

make sense? Yeah. So, it's the pack

calendar, the lots of travel, the I'm

tired, I don't really want to go train.

I don't really I'm not weighing my food.

I'm maybe eating

>> weird diets compared with what I used

to. And this lack of structure feels

alien and uncomfortable to me. But it

also feels like

relapse or or uh rest or uh change or

variation. But that's also uncomfortable

because it's unfamiliar. And yeah, each

of these little building blocks is

contributing to that like

I don't feel like me. I don't feel like

me. Yeah.

>> And and not in the way that I wanted to either.

either.

>> Mhm. Yeah. and it it creeps in like that

and you have absolutely no idea that

it's coming until one day you're like I

don't feel good. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> So it's definitely interesting and I

feel like you need to you need to I

needed to treat myself like a science

experiment of like taking and removing

pieces and see what's important. It's

like okay bodybuilding was creating a

bit of

pressure and stress in my life. Is it

>> or was it the whole, you know? So, like

as I pulled out like, well, I'm not

competing anymore. I don't need to eat

on a schedule. I don't need to train at

the same time. I don't need to leave my

phone outside the gym and be locked in

and focus as much. I don't need to wake

up with my alarm. I can kind of sleep. I

can do all these little things that I

can let go of cuz now I don't have to

because the goal is different. But then

I start to not feel good. And it was

like, okay, it wasn't those things that

weren't making me feel bad. those were

actually making me feel good. It was the

outcome like I said before. So now

taking those things that from

bodybuilding put in the back in my life

and realizing, oh wait, the structure

and the discipline makes me feel better.

It filled me with more confidence and

ability to go do other things rather

than taking away

>> regardless of whether it's in service of

becoming Mr. Olympia.

>> Yeah. And I mean I know those things,

but like you said, it was all of a

sudden it was like, oh well, I'll just

cut one meal out cuz like I'm busy now.

Oh, well, my shoulder's injured, so I'm

going to do my rehab, but like I don't

really want to, you know, I'm going to

competing this year. Like, who even cares?

cares?

>> Yeah, I'm busy. I'm going to reply to

emails in between sets. I'm going to

sleep in cuz I went to bed late last

night. Like, all these little things.

Next thing you know, you're like, I feel

like [ __ ] I don't want to do anything.

And you're way harder to pull yourself

out of that than if you'd cut it earlier.

earlier.

>> So, that's life though, you know?

There's no direct ascent to the top.

It's ups and downs and

>> building a new self as you go.

What would you say to anybody that's

lost direction in life in the way that

I would say I'm still in the midst of

it, but I do believe it will be for the

better. I feel like the path I was on

wasn't I knew when I was on it wasn't

the best for me. So if I stayed on that

path, I might might not might not be

lost, but I'm not discovering anything

else. And at least in being lost, you

might discover something new that's

better or different, but still good. You

know, better is a subjective word. I

guess nothing will be like the Olympia,

but things will be incredible in my life.

life.

>> And I would say actively, like I said,

the gym has been like the

>> thing for me of when I'm lost, it's

always there. So having a constant in

your life, having something within your

control when things feel out of control

to just go do just to give you that

little postural upkeep, I think is so

crucial. And again, that's why like

young kids were like, I don't know, I

don't know too much. Just go work out,

go lift weights.

>> Start there. Just get jacked and figure

it out. Obviously, you can't just get

jacked, figured it out from

>> you can't just stick with that. But I

think understanding that a lot of people

don't feel lost their whole life, but

they're just stuck in this like box

until they're 70 and they're like look

back and they're like, "How did I get

here?" You know, because they had such a

clearly defined path for them and maybe

it wasn't where they wanted to be. So an

being lost is an opportunity to stop and

slow down and reflect where you truly

want to go. And that's what I'm trying

to use that for right now and being

like, "Oh, it's time to do this that

that that." It's like people are like,

"What are you going to do next?" I'm

like, "Right now, nothing. I'm not

adding anything to my life because I'm

trying to figure out what that is. And

it's okay to be lost right now.

>> Telling myself it's okay to be lost

right now.

>> Dear Christopher,

>> it's okay to be lost right now.

>> It will get better and you'll figure it

out. And just do what you can. Fill

yourself up right now. Learn who you are

in this season of life and

>> just trust that whatever will come will come.

come.

>> Isn't it uh poetically ironic that the

thing you walked away from was the thing

that you needed to give you structure

after you'd walked away from it? The gym

was the kind of the thing that I left

behind. And when I worked out what it

was that I needed to do in order to get

myself at least back in a good state of

mind, it was go back to the gym again.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Everyone needs some kind of

constant in their life. And the the true

>> Just the ability to

be seen by someone else I feel like is

such a cheat code for life. If you're

feeling lost and you feel alone,

there's like the genuine the word lost.

Would you rather be in a forest by

yourself or with someone else who is

lost with you? It's so it's just such a

drastic thing.

>> And I feel like the being able to be

with someone through hard times and

understanding I'm dealing with all these

issues of identity. I'm losing this. I'm

losing that. Did people like me for

this? Am I losing followers now? Am I

going to be the same? Is this going to

still be a part of my life? do I still

care about this? But when I go home, my

wife doesn't treat me different. She

doesn't see me different. She just sees

what I'm going through and loves me the

exact same no matter what I'm doing

externally. Whatever success I have,

that's it's like can't define it better

than a cheat code for life. There's no

better confidence and ability to believe

in yourself than when someone else says

and when they see you no matter what.

And you feel safe to be whatever you

need to be with them.

>> Whether you win, whether you lose,

whether you stop, whether you keep going.

going. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm still am. Yeah.

>> Where does your selfworth come from now?

Then I think that's the

if there's challenges with sort of the

structural side. What does my day look

like? What do I do? What am I working

toward? There is sort of a momentto-

moment who who am I and why am I

important? And I've lost followers. Oh

my god, I'm irrelevant. People don't

care about me so much anymore. Who's the

next hot thing? That's whatever. Um,

where do you think about selfworth

I would say

by genuinely knowing and believing that

I'm living up to what my most important

values are. Like for example, if I want

to be a good father,

if I know I'm showing up as being a good

father, that's my value.

that's within my control then I feel

good but the difference of that of like

oh I want my daughter to love me or be

happy with me or whatever it might be

something like that is out of your

control in the moment and those are what

I would worry for where if my daughter

looked at me and she's like I hate you

dad which probably will inevitably

happen at some point and then my self

worth is attached to her not hating me

so then I have a crumble and I believe

it and then I act in a certain way

rather than being able to dissociate

with that and be like what are my values

being a good dad am I being a good dad

Yes, I know I have been being a good

dad. My self worth isn't attached to her

not saying she hates me. It's in how I

know I show up.

>> And in believing in my character and who

I'm being. So when she says, "I hate

you, dad."

>> I can not react to that and be able to

be like, "Something's going on with her.

What is she experiencing?" And I don't

have to have the selfish response of,

"Well, I need to get her to love me

now." It's like, "No, she's hurting

right now. Let me be there for her." And

I feel like that that is I mean that's a

double cheat code of being a good dad

and having controlled selfworth, but

learning to apply your values or learn

what your values are and live by them in

a way that they're within your control.

>> Well, I mean, how wonderful it would be

if people could do that in the Olympia.

I didn't win this year, but I did my

best. I gave it my all. I did all the

I'm trying to work out what the

difference is between those two

pursuits, right? Uh be good dad is process

process

raise daughter well is outcome right

something like that like

>> yeah whatever the whatever the way that

the child interacts with me being a good

dad is right it's like even if there

isn't specifically an outcome

>> we could come up with some equivalent

equation for the Olympia like um

train and eat in a disciplined manner

win Olympia is maybe one of the outcomes

but those two things aren't necessarily

linked. You can do the first one and not

get the second one. And you can get the

second one without necessarily doing all

of the things of the first one. I'm sure

that you had cheat meals at some point.

>> Someone else will have done too, but for

some reason the

>> constitution that you have and the way

that you approached it, your cheat meals

and volume of and missed reps,

individual missed reps and you know,

shortcuts and stuff

allowed you to still win at the end

>> and for somebody else doesn't.

>> Yeah. So I my point is I wonder whether

it's easier to be a bit more

embodied and mindful and sort of gentle

and um

like not philanthropic but like

charitable sort of like giving in that

way and less attached to the outcome

because it's more

resonant and it's more in inner than it

is and I will get the accolade on stage

and I will. Which is maybe why the sort

of classic tiger mom archetype of the

parents who are living vicariously

through the performance of their

children are stricter with their kids

than they've ever been with themselves. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, they demand a level of

dedication and performance from their

children that they don't from themselves because

because

>> their children are a performance. They

like that outcome of that child is them.

that's their goal that they're working

towards as opposed to I just want to be

the best dad I can be or I just want to

be the best mom I can be.

>> It's it's tough and I've had this debate

and I have no idea the answer of like

when you're working towards something

like that and you're like all I care

about is that I gave my all. I did

everything I could and then whether I

win or lose I don't care. Sounds

beautiful. But does it

>> and easy to say when you keep winning

>> and easy to say when you keep winning of

course but does that is that is it

possible is it does it make you better

or does that level of like enlightenment

also turn you into a place where

you there's no desire attached to the

outcome it's just in the effort and then

does that lead you to less effort

>> I I think it's unrealistic you this is where

where

the rationality and the emotion kind of

come into conflict with each other. And

it's all well and good to say

um if I was a closed system or if I was

some GPT that I could program, this

would be the optimal way to do it

because it allows me to maximize utility

in the moment whilst reducing stress

about the outcome which facilitates

performance to achieve the outcome. But

that's not how humans work. like we are

uh um like telic creatures, right? Like

we're working toward this tlos, this

goal, this thing that we're aiming up

at. You go without that, all of this is

[ __ ] all of the the steps that I'm

using to get myself toward the destination

destination

like this is supposedly the reason that

the dopamine system or one of the

reasons that as you approach a thing

that you want, let's say it's a tree

that's on the horizon that you know has

some fruit in that you need to bring

back. As you run toward the tree and the

tree slowly grows and grows and grows

and grows and grows on the horizon, you

get closer and closer and closer, you

feel reward because it motivates you to

keep going or else you go, "Fuck, it's

still so far away. I can't be bothered.

So, but if the tree was not there or if

you didn't know where the tree was,

running towards is way harder. The same

reason that Uber works. Uber works for

two reasons. First one is that you can

order a cab from anywhere on the planet

with one app. But the second reason is

you know how long the [ __ ] cab is

before it gets to you. So you go, "Ah,

it's only 4 minutes away. That's good."

And oh, it's getting closer. And think

about how frustrated you get when the

guy takes a wrong turn and it goes from

3 minutes to 4 minutes and you're like,

"God damn it, he's got to go around the

one way." Um, I think it sounds great in

principle to say detach yourself from

the outcome, just focus on the process,

all the rest of it. And that might be a

useful thinking tool, but practically

when it comes down to can I grow some

[ __ ] corn out of this strategy.

I'm yet to see anybody that performs at

the peak of their sport, including you,

most mindful champion that I've ever

spoken to still

still

like sort of glanced at it a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Like had a little side eye look at it

and was like, "Fuck off." I would I

would wonder if someone would even be

driven to achieve that goal if they were

in that place

>> because it's unreasonable

>> because it if they're in a place where

like what what's that outside thing

driving them probably a self worth

selfworth issue if they feel like

they're completely good as they are win

or lose maybe they well why am I even

doing this

>> you know like the people who like I joke

a lot about doing Iaska haven't done it

would love to one day still haven't done

it yet but I've spoken to people like

I'm just afraid like I'll just won't

like my life anymore more. And in my I

don't know what it's like. I haven't

done it. But in my idea, the vision is,

well, if you don't already don't love

your job, you're doing it for the wrong

reasons. It will just show you that.

People like, well, I want to be rich

first and then I'll do it because I'll

be detached from money afterwards and

then blah blah blah. Well, if you're in

a journey to be Mr. Olympia and you

awaken and you're like, I don't care

about the outcome. It's like, well, why

am I going to suffer through all this

[ __ ] and beat on myself every day

and keep pushing through all these

moments I don't want to if I don't even

care about the outcome? Maybe maybe it

is a better way to live to not care

about the outcome. But maybe it will

lead you to not doing it at all.

>> Which again, if you're there, you won't care,

care,

>> but it's just different. If you're in a

place of your life where you'd rather

keep yourself in that box and achieve

the things and get the abundance and you

no, it's really good for me, but I still

want to do it cuz it's fun right now.

And then I'll go on the other side and

open up beyond that,

>> but when are you ready to do that? Does

it matter? Like

>> fascinating question, dude. I think

about this so much. um sacrificing the

thing that you want for the thing that's

supposed to get it

>> is it's kind of like again equations

seems like a theme this week equations

um it's one of these little sequences

that seems to show up a lot. So don't

sacrifice happiness in order to achieve

success so that when you're finally

sufficiently successful you can give

yourself permission to be happy. and you

say, "Well, maybe I can just if you if

it was an equation, you could sort of

just cross off success on both sides and

you're left with happiness, right?

You're making yourself miserable in the

pursuit of an outcome that hopefully can

make you sufficiently successful to make

you happy." You go, "Okay, that feels

like sacrificing the thing you want for

the thing which is supposed to get you

the thing that you want." Um, but

we're not perfectly logical, rational

creatures. We are social animals. We

need validation. We want to feel

recognized and we want to look back and

go [ __ ] like I made a dent in the

world like I actually

>> I like hit it and I've left a mark there

and that's [ __ ] cool.

>> Uh as opposed to however many people

just, you know,

>> orange robes in a a cave somewhere,

which I can see you pivoting to at some point.

point.

>> Well, you've got the hair transplant, so

you can't do the bald thing anymore.

>> I guess I'll shape my head. >> Whatever.

>> Whatever.

>> Bick it. Um but that that sequence you

know you are a um hard charging uh woman

in their career and things are going

real great and you sort of have it in

your head. Yeah, I think I think kids

would be would be really really good.

Well, okay, you're going to sacrifice

something that you know already does

give you a sense of well-being and

fulfillment and recognition and

validation and safety, which is your

career and all of the accutrants and

stuff that come along with it

>> for a thing that you have an inclination

might be good for you, but you have real

no idea about whether or not it is. So,

okay, you're telling me that I should

sacrifice what I have, verifiable

information does make me happy for the

thing that I have like a hint that it

might be fulfilling, might be more

fulfilling. Well, how long do I need to

stay in the career before I feel like

I've got like career saturation or

fulfillment saturation or something from this?

this? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And then I can pivot into this other

mode again like the booster rocket

thing. I've spent this fuel and then

I've got this next booster rocket and

then I've got this next thing. And um

I think a lot about the bravery that is

needed to be able to say goodbye to

something like that. Like I know that

this thing gives me a sense of selfworth

>> [ __ ] That quiet voice in the back of my

head keeps getting louder and it just

keeps saying the same thing which is

this isn't right for you and you should

probably try this other thing. And how

many people are trapped by

loss aversion, fear,

uncertainty, lack of self-belief,

scarcity mindset. >> Yeah,

>> Yeah,

>> I don't think that I can make that jump. And

And

you I I was trying to think about this

when I was filming the interview for

your doc with Mark and uh you I had it

in the back of my mind. I everybody was

like how many times is he going to stick

about like you know is he going to do go

for six, go for seven, do whatever and I

had it in the back of my head. I was

like how many athletes have left their sport

sport

in their prime or maybe even before

their prime, right? Like there's nothing

that says that 31year-old you title 7

wouldn't have been better. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> Like who does that? No one. No one does

that. No one does that at all. I told

Mark this. No one does that. Nobody gets

even close to thinking cuz you finally

[ __ ] arrived, right? You just got there and now you're going to

there and now you're going to voluntarily leave. You work your entire

voluntarily leave. You work your entire life to get to this esteemed stage,

life to get to this esteemed stage, this, you know, very exclusive VIP party

this, you know, very exclusive VIP party of one. And now that you've got access

of one. And now that you've got access to it, you go, "Yeah, I'm done." Nobody

to it, you go, "Yeah, I'm done." Nobody does that. I mean, Michael Jordan

does that. I mean, Michael Jordan briefly did baseball, I suppose. But

briefly did baseball, I suppose. But most people, most champions especially,

most people, most champions especially, are forced into retirement due to some

are forced into retirement due to some sort of an injury. They um can see the

sort of an injury. They um can see the writing on the wall in terms of where

writing on the wall in terms of where that arc is, which is sort of the Jon

that arc is, which is sort of the Jon Jones approach, like don't think I'm

Jones approach, like don't think I'm going to be able to make it on this next

going to be able to make it on this next one. Like, I'll I'll leave it there. Uh

one. Like, I'll I'll leave it there. Uh or they stick about so long. Floyd

or they stick about so long. Floyd Mayweather's

Mayweather's 50 fights, 51, 52, 53, 54, like who are

50 fights, 51, 52, 53, 54, like who are we going to fight next?

we going to fight next? >> Um, and just can't say no and can't

>> Um, and just can't say no and can't stop. Uh so I for me I think it was

stop. Uh so I for me I think it was especially in our world fitness

especially in our world fitness bodybuilding stuff a much needed

example a much a very important uh role model situation of what happens

uh role model situation of what happens if you decide to step away from

if you decide to step away from something

something on your own terms. People say I did it

on your own terms. People say I did it on my own terms. It's like was it really

on my own terms. It's like was it really did you had an injury no one knew about

did you had an injury no one knew about you had some something coming up you

you had some something coming up you were so yeah it's but I guess how much

were so yeah it's but I guess how much was it on your own terms because you run

was it on your own terms because you run out of motivation right like you if

out of motivation right like you if someone held a gun to your head I'm sure

someone held a gun to your head I'm sure you could have done it for one more year

you could have done it for one more year but like I don't know just I I I think

but like I don't know just I I I think it's a an important example for people

it's a an important example for people to see a world champion multi-time world

to see a world champion multi-time world champion decide to step away when he

champion decide to step away when he could have got better not when he was on

could have got better not when he was on the decline. I think it's so

the decline. I think it's so >> Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people

>> Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people think like

think like everything's very black and white, like

everything's very black and white, like they're waiting for to be like, I hate

they're waiting for to be like, I hate bodybuilding and I'm done and I'll love

bodybuilding and I'm done and I'll love being retired. But it life doesn't work

being retired. But it life doesn't work like that. You know, multiple things are

like that. You know, multiple things are usually true. It's like I really miss a

usually true. It's like I really miss a lot of things about bodybuilding and I'm

lot of things about bodybuilding and I'm sad and there's a grief and it's sad and

sad and there's a grief and it's sad and life is good now and there's parts I

life is good now and there's parts I miss it and it's not like clear.

miss it and it's not like clear. Nothing's cleancut like that. Or like

Nothing's cleancut like that. Or like you said, the woman who working really

you said, the woman who working really hard and wants kids, like well like you

hard and wants kids, like well like you will miss your job. you did work hard to

will miss your job. you did work hard to get there and it will be hard to pull

get there and it will be hard to pull away and you will love your children

away and you will love your children >> and it will be the best thing in your

>> and it will be the best thing in your life but you will miss it's like it's

life but you will miss it's like it's this constant kind of like and I feel

this constant kind of like and I feel like social media [ __ ] us with that

like social media [ __ ] us with that because it's like and I've probably been

because it's like and I've probably been guilty of this where like exactly what

guilty of this where like exactly what we were talking about the per person at

we were talking about the per person at the end of their journey is the one

the end of their journey is the one talking about it and social media is

talking about it and social media is just a platform of people at the end of

just a platform of people at the end of their journey talking about like

their journey talking about like >> we're here this why like that

>> we're here this why like that >> view from the top of the mountain really

>> view from the top of the mountain really nice

nice >> this 50-year-old man in the orange robes

>> this 50-year-old man in the orange robes being like, "Look at me. I'm free." It's

being like, "Look at me. I'm free." It's like, well, I wouldn't have chosen any

like, well, I wouldn't have chosen any way to be different. There was a lot of

way to be different. There was a lot of stress and pressure I felt through my

stress and pressure I felt through my 20s, but like I would go through all

20s, but like I would go through all that again because it's the only way

that again because it's the only way that you can have that perspective in

that you can have that perspective in the future. And maybe it's a good thing

the future. And maybe it's a good thing to go through the [ __ ] times. You don't

to go through the [ __ ] times. You don't want to avoid them. The bad reasons why

want to avoid them. The bad reasons why you do stuff, the hell, the this, the

you do stuff, the hell, the this, the 20s to

20s to >> shortcut that,

>> shortcut that, >> to shortcut that, to detach and let go.

>> to shortcut that, to detach and let go. And you should just be like,

And you should just be like, "My dad never said I was good enough.

"My dad never said I was good enough. I'm going to [ __ ] tell him, you know,

I'm going to [ __ ] tell him, you know, be like, "Fuck yeah, go tell him." You

be like, "Fuck yeah, go tell him." You know, maybe you should.

know, maybe you should. >> I think but that's a really nice

>> It's a way that you can't really get it wrong. And I think a lot of the time

wrong. And I think a lot of the time what people have a fear of is doing it

what people have a fear of is doing it wrong.

wrong. >> Like I don't want to make the wrong

>> Like I don't want to make the wrong decision. Like what if the right

decision. Like what if the right decision is for you to do what feels

decision is for you to do what feels right to you right now and to have faith

right to you right now and to have faith in the little voice that's sort of in

in the little voice that's sort of in the back of your mind, which is, "Fuck

the back of your mind, which is, "Fuck you, dad." It's like, "All right, cool.

you, dad." It's like, "All right, cool. Go and do like go and tell him [ __ ] you.

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I had this idea of unteable lessons, which are these types of insights in

which are these types of insights in life that you can't accumulate without

life that you can't accumulate without learning for yourself firsthand. Uh,

learning for yourself firsthand. Uh, money won't make you happy, fame won't

money won't make you happy, fame won't fix your self-worth problem, um, you

fix your self-worth problem, um, you don't love that girl, she's just hot and

don't love that girl, she's just hot and difficult to get, uh, you should see

difficult to get, uh, you should see your parents more, um, you don't need to

your parents more, um, you don't need to work so hard, etc., etc. Like, it just

work so hard, etc., etc. Like, it just keeps going. And there's a lot of

keeps going. And there's a lot of criticism whenever people talk about

criticism whenever people talk about this on the internet for a couple of

this on the internet for a couple of reasons. First off, it sounds like a

reasons. First off, it sounds like a luxury belief, right? It's easy to say

luxury belief, right? It's easy to say money won't make you happy if you have

money won't make you happy if you have loads of money.

loads of money. >> Well, it is a luxury belief.

>> Well, it is a luxury belief. >> Yeah. Well, you're right. It is a luxury

>> Yeah. Well, you're right. It is a luxury belief, but it's also a luxury dream

belief, but it's also a luxury dream that money will fix my problems of

that money will fix my problems of happiness. That fame will fix my safe

happiness. That fame will fix my safe self-worth problem. Because at least the

self-worth problem. Because at least the person who's at the bottom of the ladder

person who's at the bottom of the ladder still has the belief that there is a

still has the belief that there is a solution. The person that's at the top

solution. The person that's at the top of the ladder is now rich and famous and

of the ladder is now rich and famous and still [ __ ] miserable and doesn't have

still [ __ ] miserable and doesn't have any self-esteem. And it's like, "Oh,

any self-esteem. And it's like, "Oh, I thought I thought that thing was going

I thought I thought that thing was going to You're telling me that the external

to You're telling me that the external solution won't fill my internal void.

solution won't fill my internal void. >> Oh, [ __ ] Now I need to now I actually

>> Oh, [ __ ] Now I need to now I actually really need to do some inner work." The

really need to do some inner work." The person that is on the and both of them

person that is on the and both of them will be jealous of each other. It's

will be jealous of each other. It's like, I wish I had your hope. Well, I

like, I wish I had your hope. Well, I wish I had your situation. So, I I do

wish I had your situation. So, I I do get it. But um the the thing about these

get it. But um the the thing about these unteable lessons is

unteable lessons is trying to

trying to tell anybody about them

tell anybody about them is really interesting

is really interesting >> and almost exclusively pointless. I

>> and almost exclusively pointless. I think I I don't think that people can

think I I don't think that people can speedrun this through insight. Um, I

speedrun this through insight. Um, I don't think that uh Z or Rammon Raymon

don't think that uh Z or Rammon Raymon uh the two guys that are sort of maybe

uh the two guys that are sort of maybe battling for your now vacant title

battling for your now vacant title >> is in the open now.

>> is in the open now. >> Oh, has he? He's got too big.

>> Oh, has he? He's got too big. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Well, so who's going to be

>> All right. Well, so who's going to be the two front runners?

the two front runners? >> Probably Mike Somefield, Raone,

>> Probably Mike Somefield, Raone, Terrence Ruffen, maybe.

Terrence Ruffen, maybe. >> Okay. Those guys are not going to look

>> Okay. Those guys are not going to look at you and be like

at you and be like >> Chris said it didn't even matter. Chris

>> Chris said it didn't even matter. Chris said that you holding his daughter was

said that you holding his daughter was the most important thing or I should

the most important thing or I should just shortcut my you know it's not it's

just shortcut my you know it's not it's not the way it works and um

not the way it works and um people are critical of something that

people are critical of something that sounds like a trit

sounds like a trit wellworn cliche platitudy thing because

wellworn cliche platitudy thing because they go yeah money won't make you happy

they go yeah money won't make you happy whatever fame won't fix your selforth

whatever fame won't fix your selforth heard it before and you go okay

heard it before and you go okay first off if something has been repeated

first off if something has been repeated enough times to be obvious and trit, it

enough times to be obvious and trit, it might be because there's some truth in

might be because there's some truth in it. And secondly,

it. And secondly, if it's not true, why does almost

if it's not true, why does almost everyone who reaches this kind of

everyone who reaches this kind of destination so reliably

destination so reliably start to proclaim it like they've just

start to proclaim it like they've just gone through [ __ ] religious

gone through [ __ ] religious revelation? Like, well, do you think

revelation? Like, well, do you think that there's some weird cabal secret

that there's some weird cabal secret community when people get to a certain

community when people get to a certain level of wealth? when you hit your first

level of wealth? when you hit your first million or something that they message

million or something that they message and go, "Hey, by the way, you need to

and go, "Hey, by the way, you need to tell all of the poor people that it

tell all of the poor people that it doesn't actually make you happy so they

doesn't actually make you happy so they can keep the wealth for themselves."

can keep the wealth for themselves." Yeah, exactly. It's like, "No, it's not.

Yeah, exactly. It's like, "No, it's not. It's because everyone arrives at the

It's because everyone arrives at the same place and has the same realization,

same place and has the same realization, which was, [ __ ]

which was, [ __ ] >> I thought that this thing was going to

>> I thought that this thing was going to fix my internal problem. It doesn't.

fix my internal problem. It doesn't. I've got the thing and I'm still I still

I've got the thing and I'm still I still feel the same way about myself that I

feel the same way about myself that I used to."

used to." >> In like a

>> In like a >> damn it

>> damn it like paradoxical way, don't you then

like paradoxical way, don't you then think that it is the thing? Also, it's

think that it is the thing? Also, it's not the only route there, but money

not the only route there, but money doesn't buy you happiness, but if money

doesn't buy you happiness, but if money having money shows you that money isn't

having money shows you that money isn't the thing that makes you happy, then

the thing that makes you happy, then it's still having money that's making

it's still having money that's making you happy.

you happy. >> Yes. Yes. It's a

>> Yes. Yes. It's a >> in like an offsand way.

>> in like an offsand way. >> It is. It's not the uh it's not the

>> It is. It's not the uh it's not the outcome that is going to make you happy,

outcome that is going to make you happy, but it's the stepping stone to prove to

but it's the stepping stone to prove to you what does make you happy. Yeah.

you what does make you happy. Yeah. Naval says it's far easier to achieve

Naval says it's far easier to achieve our material desires than to renounce

our material desires than to renounce them. Mhm.

them. Mhm. >> Like it's way easier to drive a beaten

>> Like it's way easier to drive a beaten up truck if your last car was a Ferrari

up truck if your last car was a Ferrari than if you spend your entire life

than if you spend your entire life thinking, wonder what it would be like

thinking, wonder what it would be like to own a Ferrari. You go breaks down all

to own a Ferrari. You go breaks down all the time and it's highly impractical and

the time and it's highly impractical and I can't drive it over speed bumps and

I can't drive it over speed bumps and everyone wants to key it and it's it

everyone wants to key it and it's it runs out of gas and it needs to be in

runs out of gas and it needs to be in the shop. All the things. Remember there

the shop. All the things. Remember there was this guy

was this guy >> I went to uni with and uh he was big

>> I went to uni with and uh he was big into pickup artistry. So he was, you

into pickup artistry. So he was, you know, doing the cycling through women

know, doing the cycling through women thing, but it was almost like a sport.

thing, but it was almost like a sport. was like very very accomplished doing

was like very very accomplished doing it. I remember thinking I was like dude

it. I remember thinking I was like dude like you really love sort of dating

like you really love sort of dating girls and going out on dates and working

girls and going out on dates and working on game and and he said yeah man my

on game and and he said yeah man my future wife better appreciate this. I'm

future wife better appreciate this. I'm like

like okay square square this circle for me.

okay square square this circle for me. How do we get to my future wife should

How do we get to my future wife should appreciate me running through half of

appreciate me running through half of Newcastle? And uh he said, "Yeah, well,

Newcastle? And uh he said, "Yeah, well, you know, I'm walking down the street,

you know, I'm walking down the street, my wife, and I see a Brazilian chick

my wife, and I see a Brazilian chick going past me and I'm pushing the

going past me and I'm pushing the stroller with the kids in it. I don't

stroller with the kids in it. I don't want to think, I wonder what it's like

want to think, I wonder what it's like to [ __ ] a Brazilian chick. I want to

to [ __ ] a Brazilian chick. I want to have ticked off every different box, all

have ticked off every different box, all of the different things." And that look,

of the different things." And that look, that might be a lot of cope.

that might be a lot of cope. But the idea stuck with me, which was,

But the idea stuck with me, which was, it's easier to do the things that you

it's easier to do the things that you want to do so that you no longer need to

want to do so that you no longer need to do them than it is to try and release

do them than it is to try and release yourself of the desire overall. on uh

yourself of the desire overall. on uh yeah, whether it's

yeah, whether it's >> the hell of an example.

>> the hell of an example. >> Look, I I I know my audience. So,

>> Look, I I I know my audience. So, >> yeah.

>> yeah. >> Um

>> Um >> that's funny. I've always connected with

>> that's funny. I've always connected with the Jim Carrey versions of that. He has

the Jim Carrey versions of that. He has like a couple quotes of it where one of

like a couple quotes of it where one of them is specifically I wish for everyone

them is specifically I wish for everyone to achieve their hopes and dreams so

to achieve their hopes and dreams so they can realize that it doesn't make

they can realize that it doesn't make them complete. It's like damn. And then

them complete. It's like damn. And then the other one was his like ironic I

the other one was his like ironic I think it was Golden Globe acceptance

think it was Golden Globe acceptance speech. He goes up there and I don't

speech. He goes up there and I don't remember it word for word, but he's

remember it word for word, but he's like, "Hello everyone. I'm Jim Carrey,

like, "Hello everyone. I'm Jim Carrey, five-time Golden Globe winner. Today I'm

five-time Golden Globe winner. Today I'm gonna go to bed and I'm gonna dream

gonna go to bed and I'm gonna dream about being Jim Carrey, six time Golden

about being Jim Carrey, six time Golden Globe winner, and then and then I will

Globe winner, and then and then I will be enough." And then the whole crowd

be enough." And then the whole crowd just starts laughing and they're all

just starts laughing and they're all just, "Ah, he's funny." And like few

just, "Ah, he's funny." And like few people you could see like whoa,

people you could see like whoa, >> you know, like that's [ __ ] deep, you

>> you know, like that's [ __ ] deep, you know? like he's

know? like he's >> just up there like

>> just up there like >> blasting on the whole

>> blasting on the whole >> industry essentially, the whole

>> industry essentially, the whole construct they're all seeking after of

construct they're all seeking after of goals and all these things. It's just

goals and all these things. It's just like he's beyond it now and he's just

like he's beyond it now and he's just like when's enough enough, you know?

like when's enough enough, you know? >> Did you see is it Scotty Schiffler?

>> Did you see is it Scotty Schiffler? Shiffler, the golfer,

Shiffler, the golfer, >> the golfer. Yeah. Hell yeah. I had like

>> the golfer. Yeah. Hell yeah. I had like five people send that to me.

five people send that to me. That was incredible.

That was incredible. that that speech that he gave talking

that that speech that he gave talking about how and

about how and it must have resonated with you because

it must have resonated with you because his entire thing is I work all this

his entire thing is I work all this time, I practice, I play all of these

time, I practice, I play all of these competitions for these five minutes and

competitions for these five minutes and I got to go home and change nappies and

I got to go home and change nappies and decide what I have for dinner and

decide what I have for dinner and continue to play this game.

continue to play this game. There's a few

There's a few people in that position that are really

people in that position that are really sort of tapped in. You were one of them.

sort of tapped in. You were one of them. Scotty's another. Um Jim Carrey is

Scotty's another. Um Jim Carrey is another. And uh it's never going to be

another. And uh it's never going to be a lot of the time when you see something

a lot of the time when you see something that looks like an effective philosophy,

that looks like an effective philosophy, life philosophy or approach, go well if

life philosophy or approach, go well if it makes you more happy eventually it'll

it makes you more happy eventually it'll be so effective that the meme will

be so effective that the meme will spread and more people will do it.

spread and more people will do it. But because of the you need to achieve

But because of the you need to achieve it before you can get rid of it thing. I

it before you can get rid of it thing. I think that

think that the need for validation meritocracy

the need for validation meritocracy chase chase chase is always going to

chase chase chase is always going to exist and so will this counterculture

exist and so will this counterculture and it will only be spoken about by

and it will only be spoken about by people that have already gone and

people that have already gone and achieved it. And all of the people that

achieved it. And all of the people that haven't yet achieved it will always call

haven't yet achieved it will always call them luxury belief velvet prison like uh

them luxury belief velvet prison like uh opulent wankers. And that that will just

opulent wankers. And that that will just continue to repeat for the rest of time.

continue to repeat for the rest of time. >> I just don't think it's ever going to

>> I just don't think it's ever going to stop.

stop. >> And the people who haven't achieved

>> And the people who haven't achieved something and have realized that it's

something and have realized that it's not the achievement that makes them

not the achievement that makes them happy and are just happy with their life

happy and are just happy with their life are just at home happy.

are just at home happy. >> No one will listen to care about telling

>> No one will listen to care about telling >> they also don't care to post it on

>> they also don't care to post it on Instagram cuz they're too busy at home

Instagram cuz they're too busy at home happy with their life.

happy with their life. >> They don't need to declare it to the

>> They don't need to declare it to the world.

world. >> I didn't sacrifice the thing I wanted

>> I didn't sacrifice the thing I wanted for the thing that's supposed to get it.

for the thing that's supposed to get it. Yeah.

Yeah. >> Uh, I'm interested, and I'm sure a lot

>> Uh, I'm interested, and I'm sure a lot of other people are, in how quickly an

of other people are, in how quickly an Olympia level physique falls apart when

Olympia level physique falls apart when you stop training.

>> It's tough to answer because of my injury I had this year. As a whole, it

injury I had this year. As a whole, it was holding on like real good until I

was holding on like real good until I had like the shoulder surgery and then I

had like the shoulder surgery and then I took about 3 months off training. And in

took about 3 months off training. And in the midst of that,

the midst of that, >> three full months basically.

>> three full months basically. >> Yeah. I was I had I couldn't lift my arm

>> Yeah. I was I had I couldn't lift my arm for like a week or two and then I was

for like a week or two and then I was using like those fat grips.

using like those fat grips. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz I couldn't hold a weight to try and

>> Cuz I couldn't hold a weight to try and do like a external rotator cuff with

do like a external rotator cuff with like a 3-in range of motion. Like it was

like a 3-in range of motion. Like it was like a serious rehab back to moving my

like a serious rehab back to moving my arm. And in the midst of that, I'm like

arm. And in the midst of that, I'm like I'm going to do a 80 hour fast because I

I'm going to do a 80 hour fast because I have never been able to do this as a

have never been able to do this as a bodybuilder and it's great for my

bodybuilder and it's great for my health. I lost like 8 pounds doing that

health. I lost like 8 pounds doing that alone. And then I I only ended up losing

alone. And then I I only ended up losing like

like I mean I lost at that point I lost about

I mean I lost at that point I lost about 25 lbs of muscle of like pure muscle

25 lbs of muscle of like pure muscle which was drastic on my physique the

which was drastic on my physique the change it was and I was like damn that

change it was and I was like damn that was a lot but then it bounced back quick

was a lot but then it bounced back quick too. I think muscle memory is absolutely

too. I think muscle memory is absolutely insane.

insane. >> So I think it's harder than people

>> So I think it's harder than people realize to really lose that muscle. Like

realize to really lose that muscle. Like obviously there's the peed side of

obviously there's the peed side of things and I'm not doing that [ __ ]

things and I'm not doing that [ __ ] anymore. Still on TRT because

anymore. Still on TRT because >> once you run that kind of stuff you kind

>> once you run that kind of stuff you kind of need to which is the dangers of doing

of need to which is the dangers of doing it at a young age. Mhm.

it at a young age. Mhm. >> But it's life. So me not doing all that

>> But it's life. So me not doing all that stuff anymore and just eating healthy

stuff anymore and just eating healthy and training hard because I love it, I

and training hard because I love it, I can still be 250 lbs like no problem

can still be 250 lbs like no problem that you can maintain that it's an

that you can maintain that it's an Olympia level physique,

Olympia level physique, >> but I could bounce back in like 6

>> but I could bounce back in like 6 months, you know?

months, you know? >> You think if if push came to shove, do

>> You think if if push came to shove, do you think that how long do you think you

you think that how long do you think you could take off before it would be really

could take off before it would be really really tough to come back within the

really tough to come back within the space of a year?

space of a year? >> I have no idea.

>> I have no idea. >> Interesting question. It's very

>> Interesting question. It's very interesting. And I'm like like most a

interesting. And I'm like like most a lot of bodybuilders, I mean classic

lot of bodybuilders, I mean classic physique is still a new division, but

physique is still a new division, but most open bodybuilders peak when they're

most open bodybuilders peak when they're like 35. It's different for classic cuz

like 35. It's different for classic cuz we need less muscle. Your waist get

we need less muscle. Your waist get bigger over time. So it would be a

bigger over time. So it would be a younger age, but still like your ability

younger age, but still like your ability to put on muscle like that continues

to put on muscle like that continues into your mid-30s. So

into your mid-30s. So >> look at the strong man, Brian Shaw.

>> look at the strong man, Brian Shaw. These guys, you know, uh

These guys, you know, uh >> who's the huge black guy that did that

>> who's the huge black guy that did that uh really long hold? He's like in his

uh really long hold? He's like in his 40s. And uh yeah, strength sports, but

40s. And uh yeah, strength sports, but endurance sports too.

endurance sports too. >> Endurance. Yeah.

>> Endurance. Yeah. >> Yeah. Is it I guess fast twitchy stuff.

>> Yeah. Is it I guess fast twitchy stuff. Um I'm going to guess weightlifters

Um I'm going to guess weightlifters probably not so great. Like Olympic

probably not so great. Like Olympic weightlifters not so great into later

weightlifters not so great into later life. Sprinters I'm going to guess once

life. Sprinters I'm going to guess once you get past 40 probably not

you get past 40 probably not >> quite the same.

>> quite the same. >> I wonder if that's an injury thing too.

>> I wonder if that's an injury thing too. There's a lot more likely to

There's a lot more likely to >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> stuff. Yeah. It's just an attrition

>> stuff. Yeah. It's just an attrition rate. It's just these people have been

rate. It's just these people have been like headsh shoted out of the or rotator

like headsh shoted out of the or rotator cuff shoted out of the thing. So your um

cuff shoted out of the thing. So your um >> uh bloods and stuff coming back down

>> uh bloods and stuff coming back down into normal life, what have you learned

into normal life, what have you learned about the post competition physiology of

about the post competition physiology of someone that's done to their body, what

someone that's done to their body, what you did to it,

>> like health-wise in general. >> Mhm. and hormones and all all the rest

>> Mhm. and hormones and all all the rest of the stuff cuz I know that you you

of the stuff cuz I know that you you were already being as gentle as

were already being as gentle as possible, trying to get as much out of

possible, trying to get as much out of as little from PD standpoint, trying to

as little from PD standpoint, trying to you just take a month off

you just take a month off >> each year from like even dieting and

>> each year from like even dieting and kind of aggressive training type stuff.

kind of aggressive training type stuff. Just

Just >> that was like a stretch of three where I

>> that was like a stretch of three where I was in lowering and ramping up. Yeah.

was in lowering and ramping up. Yeah. >> So, yeah, I'm just interested in what

>> So, yeah, I'm just interested in what your health after the Olympias looked

your health after the Olympias looked like.

like. um

feeling very grateful that I had that mindset of not trying to do too much and

mindset of not trying to do too much and getting the least out of the most

getting the least out of the most because my I had like health issues in

because my I had like health issues in the past that were unrelated to

the past that were unrelated to bodybuilding, autoimmune and stuff and

bodybuilding, autoimmune and stuff and that affected my health. And then it

that affected my health. And then it feels like bodybuilding wasn't declining

feels like bodybuilding wasn't declining it, it was kind of keeping it in a

it, it was kind of keeping it in a level. And now I'm at a point now where

level. And now I'm at a point now where I've worked with a bunch of doctors and

I've worked with a bunch of doctors and they're like, you're actually healthier

they're like, you're actually healthier than I thought you would be given what

than I thought you would be given what you've done to your body. And I was

you've done to your body. And I was like, "Well, thank God I retired at 30

like, "Well, thank God I retired at 30 cuz I don't want to hear like, oh, like

cuz I don't want to hear like, oh, like [ __ ]

[ __ ] >> you pushed it too far.

>> you pushed it too far. >> You push it too far, you know?" And

>> You push it too far, you know?" And obviously the longer you do something,

obviously the longer you do something, the better. And a few doctors have told

the better. And a few doctors have told me like in your 30s, your body is a lot

me like in your 30s, your body is a lot more likely, I mean, obvious to recover

more likely, I mean, obvious to recover in your 40s or in your 35 or whatever it

in your 40s or in your 35 or whatever it may be.

may be. >> So, there definitely is some damage that

>> So, there definitely is some damage that happened to my health and was another

happened to my health and was another huge reason of why it was easy for me to

huge reason of why it was easy for me to retire because I wasn't willing to make

retire because I wasn't willing to make that sacrifice anymore. just I was very

that sacrifice anymore. just I was very conscious of bodybuilding is not good

conscious of bodybuilding is not good for your health

for your health >> and I don't want to continue to do this

>> and I don't want to continue to do this to me with a family now and priorities

to me with a family now and priorities and different values shifting. So,

and different values shifting. So, >> there's a lot of focus on my health now,

>> there's a lot of focus on my health now, >> and I'm realizing you can't really

>> and I'm realizing you can't really attack everything at once. Like, hey, I

attack everything at once. Like, hey, I want to fix this, this, this, this.

want to fix this, this, this, this. Well, you can only take so many vitamins

Well, you can only take so many vitamins and do so many things a week. So, like

and do so many things a week. So, like the crowd here. Exactly. Yeah. So, right

the crowd here. Exactly. Yeah. So, right now it's I'm trying to fix my gut, which

now it's I'm trying to fix my gut, which is something that had gotten beat up for

is something that had gotten beat up for a while. You know, bodybuilders

a while. You know, bodybuilders >> SIBO

>> SIBO >> eat constantly. I have SIBO, mold, leaky

>> eat constantly. I have SIBO, mold, leaky gut, some heavy metals, and all this

gut, some heavy metals, and all this stuff kind of affecting

stuff kind of affecting >> a my guts. Hell yeah.

>> a my guts. Hell yeah. Are you doing the antibiotic or are you

Are you doing the antibiotic or are you trying to do the natural route?

trying to do the natural route? >> Uh combination of both. So I'm using

>> Uh combination of both. So I'm using minycline, but minycline is at quite a

minycline, but minycline is at quite a high dose now. 200 milligrams a day.

high dose now. 200 milligrams a day. >> Uh a lot of herbal antivirals, some

>> Uh a lot of herbal antivirals, some peptides. Uh we using LL37, SS31, uh

peptides. Uh we using LL37, SS31, uh BPC,

BPC, >> uh plus I was using oral BPC for a

>> uh plus I was using oral BPC for a while.

while. Yeah, it's it's because if you're doing

Yeah, it's it's because if you're doing the antibiotic thing, you can't do the

the antibiotic thing, you can't do the rebuild the gut thing at the same time.

rebuild the gut thing at the same time. >> Probiotic thing.

>> Probiotic thing. >> So, it's bro, it's nightmare. It's so

>> So, it's bro, it's nightmare. It's so hard.

hard. >> All I don't even know what the words

>> All I don't even know what the words are. I didn't do it like the kill,

are. I didn't do it like the kill, restore, reininoculate, rebuild, like

restore, reininoculate, rebuild, like all this like you have to go through

all this like you have to go through these phases of like kill everything

these phases of like kill everything kill. I no I'm

kill. I no I'm the guy helping me wanted me to build a

the guy helping me wanted me to build a little bit of like resilience in my gut

little bit of like resilience in my gut first and then kill and then rebuild

first and then kill and then rebuild just so the kill wasn't so like tough on

just so the kill wasn't so like tough on my body

my body >> so when I get back from this I start the

>> so when I get back from this I start the antibiotics

antibiotics >> yeah yeah

>> yeah yeah >> fun talk

>> fun talk >> yeah no I get it um you mentioned TRT is

>> yeah no I get it um you mentioned TRT is that

that I I don't know how it works with the

I I don't know how it works with the suppression of sort natural stuff.

suppression of sort natural stuff. >> Mhm.

>> It's just easier and simpler than trying to completely go off and survive and see

to completely go off and survive and see if it comes back online naturally with a

if it comes back online naturally with a ton of gentle supplementation. It's just

ton of gentle supplementation. It's just easier to sit at a low dose therapeutic

easier to sit at a low dose therapeutic dose of of replacement. Is that kind of

dose of of replacement. Is that kind of the philosophy that you've come to? I

the philosophy that you've come to? I still haven't really fully decided what

still haven't really fully decided what my goals are in that in the future, but

my goals are in that in the future, but I do know or have at least seen

I do know or have at least seen anecdotally through others that if you

anecdotally through others that if you drop it too hard after being so high for

drop it too hard after being so high for so long that it's really bad on your

so long that it's really bad on your body and your mind. You know, people go

body and your mind. You know, people go through some intense people go through

through some intense people go through depression from natural low test versus

depression from natural low test versus like having insane to just dropping it

like having insane to just dropping it down. So getting your body used to

down. So getting your body used to slowly decreasing over time is a lot

slowly decreasing over time is a lot better for your body to not have that

better for your body to not have that like big shock of change.

like big shock of change. >> Mhm. So, but yeah, it's difficult and

>> Mhm. So, but yeah, it's difficult and you know, I like people to be aware of

you know, I like people to be aware of the fact that putting an exogenous

the fact that putting an exogenous hormone in your body stops your body's

hormone in your body stops your body's natural production of it. It means you

natural production of it. It means you may have to take it for the rest of your

may have to take it for the rest of your life. It's reality, you know. So, kind

life. It's reality, you know. So, kind of going through if I'm even going to

of going through if I'm even going to try to go that route or not right now.

try to go that route or not right now. >> Well, dude, people say that testosterone

>> Well, dude, people say that testosterone decreases sperm count and you just

decreases sperm count and you just continue to pump kids out. snake just

continue to pump kids out. snake just >> you win some, you lose some, you know.

>> you win some, you lose some, you know. >> Well, I I'm glad that the table's so

>> Well, I I'm glad that the table's so long so that I don't get pregnant from

long so that I don't get pregnant from being over here.

being over here. >> I won't come close.

>> I won't come close. >> But yeah, dude, pregnant again.

>> But yeah, dude, pregnant again. Congratulations.

Congratulations. >> Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

>> Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. We're excited. Very excited

We're excited. Very excited >> having Will it be two under two?

>> having Will it be two under two? >> It'll be two under two. 20 months apart.

>> It'll be two under two. 20 months apart. >> Let's [ __ ] go, dude.

>> Let's [ __ ] go, dude. >> Yeah. I don't know why everyone knows

>> Yeah. I don't know why everyone knows that saying. It sound It feels scary.

that saying. It sound It feels scary. They're like They look at you.

They're like They look at you. >> I'm pretty sure Courtney put a story out

>> I'm pretty sure Courtney put a story out saying she said it.

saying she said it. >> Oh god. Like anyone with advice for two

>> Oh god. Like anyone with advice for two under two. Yeah, moms will look at us or

under two. Yeah, moms will look at us or her and be like, "2, oh, good luck." You

her and be like, "2, oh, good luck." You know, which I hate. I hate that kind of

know, which I hate. I hate that kind of mindset of parenting. I think it's huge.

mindset of parenting. I think it's huge. And all my

And all my >> friends two, congratulations. It's

>> friends two, congratulations. It's >> Yeah. Like even like men with girls

>> Yeah. Like even like men with girls like, "Oh, you have a girl. Good luck."

like, "Oh, you have a girl. Good luck." When they're teenagers, it's like, "Fuck

When they're teenagers, it's like, "Fuck that. It's being if you're a good dad

that. It's being if you're a good dad and you raise your kids, right?" Like,

and you raise your kids, right?" Like, it's beautiful. We're excited,

it's beautiful. We're excited, >> dude. It's so exciting. It's so cool. I

>> dude. It's so exciting. It's so cool. I think, you know, the the main thing I

think, you know, the the main thing I took away from our conversation last

took away from our conversation last year

year was how much more

was how much more stability and confidence you were given

stability and confidence you were given by

by your identity being distributed, you

your identity being distributed, you know, on the blockchain. It's like a

know, on the blockchain. It's like a decentralized network of of stuff. Yeah.

decentralized network of of stuff. Yeah. >> You know, the best in the world at this

>> You know, the best in the world at this thing.

thing. >> I'm also the most important person in

>> I'm also the most important person in the world and in this world and I've

the world and in this world and I've also got this business thing. I'm pretty

also got this business thing. I'm pretty important there, too. and people care

important there, too. and people care about me and I get to contribute and

about me and I get to contribute and hooray that's lovely and I got some

hooray that's lovely and I got some friends and they seem to like me as well

friends and they seem to like me as well and

and >> I like cars and I have a couple of

>> I like cars and I have a couple of hobbies and ah wow his I asked Tim

hobbies and ah wow his I asked Tim Ferrris about this the start of last

Ferrris about this the start of last year I was like how do you cuz he's got

year I was like how do you cuz he's got a a tendency toward low mood he's a

a a tendency toward low mood he's a sensitive guy

sensitive guy like how do you hedge your

like how do you hedge your or how do you uh stop yourself from

or how do you uh stop yourself from being at the mercy of you're a New York

being at the mercy of you're a New York Times bestseller and my podcast number

Times bestseller and my podcast number one in the world. Oh my god, I've fallen

one in the world. Oh my god, I've fallen back again. And he said about uh hedging

back again. And he said about uh hedging your identity, distributing where you

your identity, distributing where you take your self worth from in that way.

take your self worth from in that way. And yeah, the

And yeah, the >> the fact that you've just got this

>> the fact that you've just got this amazing journey that you're on

amazing journey that you're on personally

personally and

and it gives you the confidence, I think,

it gives you the confidence, I think, even if you're uh even if it's just cope

even if you're uh even if it's just cope to say, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have

to say, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have mattered if I'd won. Uh

mattered if I'd won. Uh >> it gives you the confidence to at least

>> it gives you the confidence to at least be able to think it.

be able to think it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> As opposed to someone that goes, I can

>> As opposed to someone that goes, I can say this and not even I I even know that

say this and not even I I even know that that wouldn't be true. Like it just

that wouldn't be true. Like it just sounds like the thing I'm supposed to

sounds like the thing I'm supposed to say. But yeah, you know,

say. But yeah, you know, >> even when you're increasing like the

>> even when you're increasing like the amount of most important people in your

amount of most important people in your life, more kids, your wife, people, then

life, more kids, your wife, people, then you have more people who love you and

you have more people who love you and like I was reading his book and it was

like I was reading his book and it was one line that wasn't even meant to stand

one line that wasn't even meant to stand out, but it was like if for 10 if for

out, but it was like if for 10 if for one minute you could see yourself the

one minute you could see yourself the way your child sees you, you would never

way your child sees you, you would never be the same. like you are like the

be the same. like you are like the biggest special hero, God strength, like

biggest special hero, God strength, like just everything you do is just wow to

just everything you do is just wow to them, you know, like pure love and awe

them, you know, like pure love and awe that no matter what you do, if I lost an

that no matter what you do, if I lost an Olympia, if I told them when she was

Olympia, if I told them when she was older I lost Olympia, whatever, like

older I lost Olympia, whatever, like there's no change in that.

there's no change in that. >> It's like they don't care, you know? My

>> It's like they don't care, you know? My wife doesn't care. and having more

wife doesn't care. and having more people like hedging that too of having

people like hedging that too of having more people in your life who don't care

more people in your life who don't care win or lose on things does make you able

win or lose on things does make you able to go through losses and it not affect

to go through losses and it not affect you the same and still make the right

you the same and still make the right decisions in life regardless of

decisions in life regardless of outcomes. So I think it's just the best

outcomes. So I think it's just the best thing ever.

thing ever. We'll get back to talking in just one

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and modern wisdom a checkout. It's an interesting one with

interesting one with girl dads especially that you are the

girl dads especially that you are the first man that she's going to love and

first man that she's going to love and the imprinting

the imprinting it does seem like dads are very

it does seem like dads are very important. I don't know why I had

important. I don't know why I had animation on who wrote life of dad.

animation on who wrote life of dad. She's doing her new book is actually

She's doing her new book is actually going to be about dads again for the

going to be about dads again for the second time. She um I think this her

second time. She um I think this her first kid she had a complicated birth

first kid she had a complicated birth and uh uh like really complicated and

and uh uh like really complicated and then mom and kid were rushed out of the

then mom and kid were rushed out of the hospital room and you know all the

hospital room and you know all the priorities on them and dad was just left

priorities on them and dad was just left sort of wondering whether

sort of wondering whether >> the love of his life and his newborn kid

>> the love of his life and his newborn kid was okay and no one came in

was okay and no one came in >> to explain anything to check on him and

>> to explain anything to check on him and you know there's talk

you know there's talk the uh trauma that women go through in

the uh trauma that women go through in childirth and them needing to kind of

childirth and them needing to kind of postpartum depression, all of this

postpartum depression, all of this stuff. Absolutely. Like she's done the

stuff. Absolutely. Like she's done the leg work, right? But there is a a world

leg work, right? But there is a a world in which looking at dads they're not

in which looking at dads they're not they are surplus to requirements at

they are surplus to requirements at least in part like they're not

least in part like they're not breastfeeding they're not getting like

breastfeeding they're not getting like they the baby wants mom at least for the

they the baby wants mom at least for the first bit but then there's kind of this

first bit but then there's kind of this you sort of get tagged in after a few

you sort of get tagged in after a few >> years time and then oh okay now it's

>> years time and then oh okay now it's sort of

sort of >> it's your turn to step up and it seems

>> it's your turn to step up and it seems like that's really important. So,

like that's really important. So, >> I feel like that what you're saying

>> I feel like that what you're saying about like I've been thinking a lot

about like I've been thinking a lot about that and like I said, people being

about that and like I said, people being like, "Oh, good luck with the girl and

like, "Oh, good luck with the girl and being a dad and where's your purpose and

being a dad and where's your purpose and having a baby now infant? You're right.

having a baby now infant? You're right. Your job is really just supporting mom

Your job is really just supporting mom and

and >> making sure she's still like okay and

>> making sure she's still like okay and feels like a priority, especially when

feels like a priority, especially when she was pregnant woman. Oh my god, so

she was pregnant woman. Oh my god, so exciting. Now it's baby. Oh my god, so

exciting. Now it's baby. Oh my god, so exciting. Mom's over here." You know,

exciting. Mom's over here." You know, it's like, "See you later. Baby's so

it's like, "See you later. Baby's so cute." So like understanding as like a

cute." So like understanding as like a man like maybe you're not always in the

man like maybe you're not always in the spotlight but you always have a very

spotlight but you always have a very important role

important role >> and it's not as important in the

>> and it's not as important in the beginning when the kids are young cuz

beginning when the kids are young cuz yes men are

yes men are >> not always men

>> not always men >> however we like to define these things

>> however we like to define these things >> everyone can have their own roles

>> everyone can have their own roles whatever by tradition I would like to be

whatever by tradition I would like to be the

the >> provider logical rational thinker of the

>> provider logical rational thinker of the family

family >> not always just the support but wanting

>> not always just the support but wanting to be both but if you just are stepped

to be both but if you just are stepped away when they're young and all of a

away when they're young and all of a sudden they're like a little girl and

sudden they're like a little girl and you don't really know them. You haven't

you don't really know them. You haven't built a bond or connection when they

built a bond or connection when they were an infant before they could talk. A

were an infant before they could talk. A lot of dads I read feel awkward with

lot of dads I read feel awkward with their children, especially daughters who

their children, especially daughters who like I don't know how to hang out with

like I don't know how to hang out with them alone like want to go play sports

them alone like want to go play sports or like no let's just sit and play tea

or like no let's just sit and play tea and talk you know if unless you keep

and talk you know if unless you keep that going from a very young age there

that going from a very young age there might be a moment where it feels awkward

might be a moment where it feels awkward and you know it is very important to be

and you know it is very important to be in their life as a dad and I feel like

in their life as a dad and I feel like >> not enough people talk about how

>> not enough people talk about how important the role is for a man in a

important the role is for a man in a daughter's life. Of course, it's

daughter's life. Of course, it's important. We talk about daddy issues,

important. We talk about daddy issues, but we don't talk about how important it

but we don't talk about how important it is to avoid that.

is to avoid that. >> You you talk about what it is when it

>> You you talk about what it is when it goes wrong, but not how you do things to

goes wrong, but not how you do things to get it

get it >> right. Yeah. It's like I'm absolutely

>> right. Yeah. It's like I'm absolutely like working going to take so much pride

like working going to take so much pride in wanting my daughter to talk to me and

in wanting my daughter to talk to me and come to me with things. Like, I don't

come to me with things. Like, I don't want to teach her about sex and I don't

want to teach her about sex and I don't want to know about it, but I'd much

want to know about it, but I'd much rather her come and talk to me about

rather her come and talk to me about things than be afraid to. I'd rather her

things than be afraid to. I'd rather her to be safe enough to come to me to talk

to be safe enough to come to me to talk about boyfriends rather than, well,

about boyfriends rather than, well, dad's going to get mad if I even talk to

dad's going to get mad if I even talk to a boy, so don't hide it from, you know,

a boy, so don't hide it from, you know, I want her to be like, "Dad, I'm talking

I want her to be like, "Dad, I'm talking to this guy, blah, blah, blah." And I

to this guy, blah, blah, blah." And I want to be able to talk through it with

want to be able to talk through it with her, you know, not be

her, you know, not be >> I want to be able to warn her off him

>> I want to be able to warn her off him immediately and all of them for the rest

immediately and all of them for the rest of time.

of time. >> I would like to,

>> I would like to, >> but no, the goal would be more so to be

>> but no, the goal would be more so to be able to hear her and feel safe to talk

able to hear her and feel safe to talk to me. So then she can I can work my way

to me. So then she can I can work my way into now she feels safe with me and then

into now she feels safe with me and then my opinions are more structured. I'm

my opinions are more structured. I'm still dad. I'm still her hero. So, if

still dad. I'm still her hero. So, if she feels safe to talk to me, then I

she feels safe to talk to me, then I have the opportunity to really give,

have the opportunity to really give, well, here's what I think about it. And

well, here's what I think about it. And there's a much more likely that she'll

there's a much more likely that she'll listen to me if she feels safe first and

listen to me if she feels safe first and heard and validated and then understands

heard and validated and then understands what my opinions and boundaries are.

what my opinions and boundaries are. >> What have you learned about child

>> What have you learned about child rearing and strategies? We had a

rearing and strategies? We had a conversation in a gym and some clip from

conversation in a gym and some clip from that about

that about >> Oh, yeah. Well, cry it out but not cry

>> Oh, yeah. Well, cry it out but not cry it out. Healthy whatever it's called.

it out. Healthy whatever it's called. Attachment parenting went beyond [ __ ]

Attachment parenting went beyond [ __ ] viral. I never thought that we would

viral. I never thought that we would trend on mummy talk.

trend on mummy talk. >> Um but I I think people have very strong

>> Um but I I think people have very strong opinions about how to raise kids

opinions about how to raise kids >> and when you hear something that sounds

>> and when you hear something that sounds a little bit more

a little bit more gentle, maternal, grounded, um that

gentle, maternal, grounded, um that seems to resonate. But strategies, you

seems to resonate. But strategies, you guys did a lot of reading beforehand.

guys did a lot of reading beforehand. You made sure that there were no toxins

You made sure that there were no toxins in the the blanket and stuff. I know you

in the the blanket and stuff. I know you went through all of that. What did you

went through all of that. What did you learn about

learn about good and bad ways, at least so far, for

good and bad ways, at least so far, for child rearing?

>> I mean, it's such a multiaceted question. I feel like it comes down to

question. I feel like it comes down to like that idea. You think you're reading

like that idea. You think you're reading these books and trying to prepare and

these books and trying to prepare and you're getting the non-flame return like

you're getting the non-flame return like non-toxic this and then all of a sudden

non-toxic this and then all of a sudden you're just like drowning and it's like

you're just like drowning and it's like opening a book and reading how to swim

opening a book and reading how to swim as you're taking a boat into the middle

as you're taking a boat into the middle of the ocean the book down and looking

of the ocean the book down and looking up and being like and diving in, you

up and being like and diving in, you know, like you you just

know, like you you just >> learn by doing.

>> learn by doing. >> You just learn by doing. You got to

>> You just learn by doing. You got to figure out and you're right. People have

figure out and you're right. People have so many opinions and their own thing. So

so many opinions and their own thing. So there's no right way of doing things

there's no right way of doing things that I remember that thing going off

that I remember that thing going off about the all the mom. It was like this

about the all the mom. It was like this combo of women being like, "Hell yeah,

combo of women being like, "Hell yeah, go guys." And who are these [ __ ] two

go guys." And who are these [ __ ] two >> idiot bros telling us how to dude? I had

>> idiot bros telling us how to dude? I had I had moms and daughters of moms come up

I had moms and daughters of moms come up to me in the gym. I'm like, "You think

to me in the gym. I'm like, "You think it's going to be my my son is a huge fan

it's going to be my my son is a huge fan of your channel or whatever." It's like,

of your channel or whatever." It's like, "I saw you talking about gentle

"I saw you talking about gentle parenting and cry it out. doesn't get we

parenting and cry it out. doesn't get we I've ended up in a corner of the

I've ended up in a corner of the internet I did not think existed.

internet I did not think existed. >> Yeah. And it's and it's valid and I

>> Yeah. And it's and it's valid and I understand it after going through at

understand it after going through at least the baby part of the baby stage. I

least the baby part of the baby stage. I mean I'm toddler now.

mean I'm toddler now. >> What what do you mean you understand?

>> What what do you mean you understand? >> Like you have no idea what you're

>> Like you have no idea what you're getting into, you know, and people who

getting into, you know, and people who are going through a hard time and

are going through a hard time and everyone has their own experiences. It's

everyone has their own experiences. It's hard to have someone else who hasn't

hard to have someone else who hasn't gone through it talk about like fair and

gone through it talk about like fair and I still can't because she's still just a

I still can't because she's still just a toddler. But you know I'm we did just

toddler. But you know I'm we did just that. We we didn't let her cry it out.

that. We we didn't let her cry it out. We gave her the love and support.

We gave her the love and support. Courtney was always there for her when I

Courtney was always there for her when I wasn't around. Like she we gave her what

wasn't around. Like she we gave her what she needed in terms of understanding

she needed in terms of understanding when she was uncomfortable or sad or

when she was uncomfortable or sad or scared. You know, you start to learn

scared. You know, you start to learn what their cries are like and what they

what their cries are like and what they mean. And we comfort her for that. And

mean. And we comfort her for that. And now we're at a stage where we're just

now we're at a stage where we're just learning boundaries. You know, we're

learning boundaries. You know, we're we're not punishing her because she does

we're not punishing her because she does something bad, but she's starting to

something bad, but she's starting to learn, oh, if I have a tantrum and freak

learn, oh, if I have a tantrum and freak out, then you're going to give me back

out, then you're going to give me back the ex you took away from me, you know?

the ex you took away from me, you know? So instead of like punishing her or

So instead of like punishing her or putting her away or in a corner, timeout

putting her away or in a corner, timeout or whatever, we're just like withholding

or whatever, we're just like withholding our boundaries firmly. Like if it's time

our boundaries firmly. Like if it's time for us to take away not do X anymore,

for us to take away not do X anymore, well then we're not giving it back if

well then we're not giving it back if you have a tantrum. But I'm also not

you have a tantrum. But I'm also not going to like reject your emotion right

going to like reject your emotion right now. We can't we can't talk to her, but

now. We can't we can't talk to her, but it's like okay, we hold her like sh.

it's like okay, we hold her like sh. It's okay. We comfort her through it.

It's okay. We comfort her through it. Like you're not going to get it, but I

Like you're not going to get it, but I still love you.

still love you. >> My boundaries are here to protect you

>> My boundaries are here to protect you because I know what's best for you. I'm

because I know what's best for you. I'm not going to isolate you because of your

not going to isolate you because of your emotion. Your emotions are okay. It's

emotion. Your emotions are okay. It's okay that you're angry, but also I'm not

okay that you're angry, but also I'm not going to give it back to you, and I love

going to give it back to you, and I love you regardless of how you feel. And it's

you regardless of how you feel. And it's more right now, it's more about being

more right now, it's more about being able to show her with body language and

able to show her with body language and like comforting through that. So,

like comforting through that. So, you figure it as you go. You know,

you figure it as you go. You know, there's so much to it, but our our deep

there's so much to it, but our our deep philosophy is her wanting to feel safe

philosophy is her wanting to feel safe and secure with her, her her feeling

and secure with her, her her feeling that her emotions are valid, even if her

that her emotions are valid, even if her behaviors are not. Teaching her, it's

behaviors are not. Teaching her, it's okay to feel like this, but you might

okay to feel like this, but you might not get what you want. Have you

not get what you want. Have you considered that pivoting into

considered that pivoting into uh fathering influencer might be the

uh fathering influencer might be the next?

next? >> We'll see.

>> We'll see. >> Maternal Gym Sharkwire

>> Maternal Gym Sharkwire >> raw supplements for kids.

>> raw supplements for kids. >> Paternal Gym Shark.

>> Paternal Gym Shark. >> Paternal. Yeah.

>> Paternal. Yeah. >> Yeah. Dad bod. You could do a You could

>> Yeah. Dad bod. You could do a You could do a Dadbud release. Clen, get on that.

do a Dadbud release. Clen, get on that. Thank you. Slack.

Thank you. Slack. >> Working on it.

>> Working on it. >> It's very important. Okay. Thank you.

>> It's very important. Okay. Thank you. No, there they're I've shared a few

No, there they're I've shared a few things recently and I do want to speak

things recently and I do want to speak my mind more because I feel like I do

my mind more because I feel like I do these podcasts and I do and people take

these podcasts and I do and people take from it. I like speaking about my

from it. I like speaking about my experience about stuff I've done that

experience about stuff I've done that like is for me and trying to specify

like is for me and trying to specify that because I don't know what other

that because I don't know what other people are going through and

people are going through and >> and I also don't know what I'm doing

>> and I also don't know what I'm doing myself

myself >> and I don't know what the [ __ ] I'm

>> and I don't know what the [ __ ] I'm doing. So at least I can be like we did

doing. So at least I can be like we did this and it didn't work and we did this

this and it didn't work and we did this and it did work.

and it did work. >> Yeah. But I do just think it's important

>> Yeah. But I do just think it's important to to advocate as someone who is

to to advocate as someone who is incredibly happy and fulfilled

incredibly happy and fulfilled in large part because of their marriage

in large part because of their marriage and their family. You know, in a in a

and their family. You know, in a in a world where some people are afraid to

world where some people are afraid to get in relationships and they trust or

get in relationships and they trust or kids are bad or I want to bring them in

kids are bad or I want to bring them in the world of like being like, okay,

the world of like being like, okay, fair. If you want to live that life

fair. If you want to live that life valid, do what's best for you, but I'm

valid, do what's best for you, but I'm someone who at least is absolutely

someone who at least is absolutely fulfilled and loving life right now and

fulfilled and loving life right now and this is how I'm going about it and it's

this is how I'm going about it and it's pouring into my relationship that being

pouring into my relationship that being a priority. And then it's being a father

a priority. And then it's being a father and my daughter being second priority to

and my daughter being second priority to my wife. And then it's whatever else I

my wife. And then it's whatever else I need for myself mixed in it and all the

need for myself mixed in it and all the things along that. The conversation that

things along that. The conversation that we had last year, a couple of weeks

we had last year, a couple of weeks before the Olympia in Florida, kind of

before the Olympia in Florida, kind of felt to me personally,

felt to me personally, uh, a little bit like a glitch in the

uh, a little bit like a glitch in the matrix because

matrix because people at home get affected hopefully

people at home get affected hopefully positively by the messages that they

positively by the messages that they take away from these conversations.

take away from these conversations. But [ __ ] me, like being here firsthand

But [ __ ] me, like being here firsthand and

and watching it unfold is a a unique place

watching it unfold is a a unique place to be. And I used this analogy that when

to be. And I used this analogy that when I have different decisions to make,

I have different decisions to make, sometimes it feels like I've got uh

sometimes it feels like I've got uh Horosi on one shoulder and you on the

Horosi on one shoulder and you on the other. And Alex is saying, "Stop being

other. And Alex is saying, "Stop being such a [ __ ] just work harder." And

such a [ __ ] just work harder." And you're saying, "You should probably

you're saying, "You should probably listen to your emotions more." And um

listen to your emotions more." And um that that chat that we had last year I

that that chat that we had last year I think was really formative for me

think was really formative for me because I'd been in this sort of homosy

because I'd been in this sort of homosy energy for a long time which was good

energy for a long time which was good and that was what I needed

and that was what I needed >> and um really made a lot of progress and

>> and um really made a lot of progress and changes in the right direction but just

changes in the right direction but just seeing how

seeing how somebody that I think is wired

somebody that I think is wired in terms of nervous system and emotions

in terms of nervous system and emotions in not too dissimilar of a

had sort of cut through so much of the [ __ ] that people try

so much of the [ __ ] that people try people end up getting distracted by what

people end up getting distracted by what are the different directions I should go

are the different directions I should go down to try and find fulfillment and you

down to try and find fulfillment and you just said hey I just found a woman that

just said hey I just found a woman that I love that makes me feel safe and we

I love that makes me feel safe and we decided to build a family

decided to build a family shocking I know you know what a

shocking I know you know what a revolutionary philosophy but it really

revolutionary philosophy but it really it it took a long time it's like still

it it took a long time it's like still now kind of there's echo because of

now kind of there's echo because of that. But for months afterward, I was

that. But for months afterward, I was thinking like, "Holy fuck." Like that's

thinking like, "Holy fuck." Like that's that speaks to me on so many different

that speaks to me on so many different levels. This thing that sort of is

levels. This thing that sort of is shouting out to me. You're right. People

shouting out to me. You're right. People are scared of getting into

are scared of getting into relationships. There's lots and lots of

relationships. There's lots and lots of stories online. I talk about dating

stories online. I talk about dating dynamics a ton on the show and lots of

dynamics a ton on the show and lots of them are not good. Um, but

them are not good. Um, but how rare is it that you hear somebody

how rare is it that you hear somebody that says what you or Courtney do? like

that says what you or Courtney do? like that is, you know, I stand up for this

that is, you know, I stand up for this is something that made me really really

is something that made me really really [ __ ] happy and I had options to be

[ __ ] happy and I had options to be happy from other things as well. This

happy from other things as well. This isn't me doing it from a place of um of

isn't me doing it from a place of um of need, right? That oh, my relationship's

need, right? That oh, my relationship's the most important thing in the world.

the most important thing in the world. Dude, you had nothing else going on.

Dude, you had nothing else going on. >> Let's you had nothing else going on.

>> Let's you had nothing else going on. Like, it's the only thing going on in

Like, it's the only thing going on in your world. Um, and I think that's a

your world. Um, and I think that's a it's a really good a really good role

it's a really good a really good role model and it certainly [ __ ] flipped

model and it certainly [ __ ] flipped my world upside down. So, thanks for

my world upside down. So, thanks for that.

that. >> Yeah, that's what I do.

>> Yeah, that's what I do. >> Uh, how was the official wedding? I

>> Uh, how was the official wedding? I think you must have delayed due to all

think you must have delayed due to all manner of other stuff going on.

manner of other stuff going on. >> Do you think even though marriage has

>> Do you think even though marriage has been for a while official ceremony? Is

been for a while official ceremony? Is that important? Like

that important? Like >> to us it was to us it was and I didn't I

>> to us it was to us it was and I didn't I mean we had been married technically

mean we had been married technically legally but like you said yeah we we're

legally but like you said yeah we we're having kids bouncing around life is

having kids bouncing around life is crazy win Olympias and it was hard to

crazy win Olympias and it was hard to ever plan it out efficiently and I knew

ever plan it out efficiently and I knew it was very important to her and as a

it was very important to her and as a man you're kind of like yeah like

man you're kind of like yeah like whatever and we have to pay how much for

whatever and we have to pay how much for this

this you know

you know >> Italy or Spain or

>> Italy or Spain or >> the typical and luckily we got to the

>> the typical and luckily we got to the point where we had eight people at our

point where we had eight people at our wedding because it was we just want our

wedding because it was we just want our close ones around and keep it super

close ones around and keep it super simple. But it really wasn't until like

simple. But it really wasn't until like coming into it, I was like, "This is

coming into it, I was like, "This is important. Celebrate our love. Really

important. Celebrate our love. Really like implant this as like a thing." And

like implant this as like a thing." And it was more of um

it was more of um a reminder, a deep reminder of how

a reminder, a deep reminder of how valuable we are to each other. And the

valuable we are to each other. And the day as a whole was just like, you know,

day as a whole was just like, you know, you lead up to it. It was a little bit

you lead up to it. It was a little bit chaotic. We're traveling with a baby,

chaotic. We're traveling with a baby, yada yada. But then the morning we wake

yada yada. But then the morning we wake up, Bradley's sleeping in. We're in this

up, Bradley's sleeping in. We're in this beautiful resort. I walk out and I have

beautiful resort. I walk out and I have my vows I had roughly written on my

my vows I had roughly written on my phone and we decided to handw write

phone and we decided to handw write them. And so I go in this beautiful

them. And so I go in this beautiful garden with with my coffee and fountains

garden with with my coffee and fountains and I'm sitting there and I'm writing

and I'm sitting there and I'm writing down with my by hand, which I'd never

down with my by hand, which I'd never do, our vows. And I'm sitting there, I

do, our vows. And I'm sitting there, I have like tears coming up. I'm like

have like tears coming up. I'm like changing them. I'm like thinking of like

changing them. I'm like thinking of like how deeply important she is to my life

how deeply important she is to my life and how much we've been through

and how much we've been through together. how crazy it is that we've

together. how crazy it is that we've lasted even this long and now we've

lasted even this long and now we've promising to go forever together

promising to go forever together continuously. And this just agreement

continuously. And this just agreement that no matter what life does, no matter

that no matter what life does, no matter what comes at you, even if you go

what comes at you, even if you go through a phase where you hate each

through a phase where you hate each other, you're still not going to give

other, you're still not going to give up. You're going to always come back to

up. You're going to always come back to that center together, no matter what.

that center together, no matter what. And I think just that agreement to that,

And I think just that agreement to that, I think it's just so beautiful. And

I think it's just so beautiful. And having that day to reflect and remember

having that day to reflect and remember what you've been through, why you love

what you've been through, why you love each other so much, it's like was

each other so much, it's like was incredible. Well, then I didn't see her.

incredible. Well, then I didn't see her. And then you do the surprise, the first

And then you do the surprise, the first reveal after all the writing, and she

reveal after all the writing, and she comes out in her wedding dress looking

comes out in her wedding dress looking so beautiful.

so beautiful. >> If you hold it together at the altar,

>> If you hold it together at the altar, >> I didn't sob, but I was crying. I had

>> I didn't sob, but I was crying. I had tears coming down my eyes. We did a We

tears coming down my eyes. We did a We actually did a private reveal.

actually did a private reveal. >> Yeah, you do. First, it's called a first

>> Yeah, you do. First, it's called a first look.

look. >> First look,

>> First look, >> first look.

>> first look. >> First look.

>> First look. >> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. You got to check with the

>> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. You got to check with the women in the room.

women in the room. >> Um

>> Um the How many weddings have I been to?

the How many weddings have I been to? Maybe been to five weddings or something

Maybe been to five weddings or something since I've been in America.

since I've been in America. This may be

This may be indicative of the sort of men that I'm

indicative of the sort of men that I'm friends with. So, I'm going to caveat

friends with. So, I'm going to caveat that this might not be for all men, but

that this might not be for all men, but every wedding I've been to since I've

every wedding I've been to since I've lived in America,

lived in America, every single groom has cried. And it's

every single groom has cried. And it's always been at the same point, even if

always been at the same point, even if they've done a first look. And it's not

they've done a first look. And it's not when they're doing the vows. They've

when they're doing the vows. They've held it together when they've done the

held it together when they've done the vows. It's when the wife is walking up

vows. It's when the wife is walking up fiance

fiance >> fiance

>> fiance >> is walking down the aisle toward them

>> is walking down the aisle toward them and I've really tried to think do you

and I've really tried to think do you sat at a wedding sort of observing this

sat at a wedding sort of observing this thing unfold and it kind of happens in

thing unfold and it kind of happens in slow motion a little bit at least that

slow motion a little bit at least that bit does to me

bit does to me >> I'm watching this guy

>> I'm watching this guy and he's like

and he's like swallowing swallowing a little bit and

swallowing swallowing a little bit and it's sort of tears are streaming down

it's sort of tears are streaming down he's knows that there's 100 or 200 or

he's knows that there's 100 or 200 or 300 people that watching

300 people that watching and he's still trying to hold it

and he's still trying to hold it together and he's got all of this

together and he's got all of this concern about being embarrassed. I've

concern about being embarrassed. I've been thinking about what it is that

been thinking about what it is that causes men to cry when they see their

causes men to cry when they see their wife at the end of the aisle arm in- arm

wife at the end of the aisle arm in- arm with father maybe. I think one of them

with father maybe. I think one of them maybe is that it's the

maybe is that it's the the sense of being chosen

the sense of being chosen that of all of the options in all of the

that of all of the options in all of the world.

world. A lot of the time guys might feel

A lot of the time guys might feel on the outside or alone or broken.

on the outside or alone or broken. There's a big uncertainty about whether

There's a big uncertainty about whether or not somebody's going to choose me. Am

or not somebody's going to choose me. Am I okay? Am I enough? Is someone going to

I okay? Am I enough? Is someone going to actually love me for me? I think women's

actually love me for me? I think women's value to the world is um

value to the world is um they arrive in the world with value

they arrive in the world with value whereas men tend to need to sort of

whereas men tend to need to sort of build it up at least a little bit more.

build it up at least a little bit more. Men are more disposable in that regard

Men are more disposable in that regard sort of evolutionarily. You've got twice

sort of evolutionarily. You've got twice as many um uh mothers as you do fathers

as many um uh mothers as you do fathers ancestrally. It's like 40% of women uh

ancestrally. It's like 40% of women uh 40% of men reproduced, 80% of women

40% of men reproduced, 80% of women reproduced. So even just like the

reproduced. So even just like the lottery of I'm one of the 40%. It's

lottery of I'm one of the 40%. It's going well. Um, but yeah, a guy stood at

going well. Um, but yeah, a guy stood at the end of the aisle crying. I think

the end of the aisle crying. I think it's because

it's because someone shows him and he's watching this

someone shows him and he's watching this very slow walk, depending on how heavy

very slow walk, depending on how heavy the dress is.

the dress is. Very slow walk come toward him and uh

Very slow walk come toward him and uh yeah, it's beautiful. But every single

yeah, it's beautiful. But every single time that there's been a wedding, it's

time that there's been a wedding, it's been the guy that's cried and not the

been the guy that's cried and not the girl. Uh, I'm sure that she's cried it

girl. Uh, I'm sure that she's cried it before and the dad and all the rest of

before and the dad and all the rest of the stuff, but yeah, that's uh I don't

the stuff, but yeah, that's uh I don't know. It's it's interesting thing I've

know. It's it's interesting thing I've observed.

observed. >> I think men too, we just take way less

>> I think men too, we just take way less time to allow ourselves to feel emotion.

time to allow ourselves to feel emotion. Back to our [ __ ] it's happening.

Back to our [ __ ] it's happening. >> Our typical conversation, we're always

>> Our typical conversation, we're always like thinking, progressing, fixing this,

like thinking, progressing, fixing this, that that women have are much more

that that women have are much more attuned with actually allowing

attuned with actually allowing themselves to feel emotion. And so how

themselves to feel emotion. And so how many times do you stop and truly like

many times do you stop and truly like you have your vows written as this day

you have your vows written as this day is you're prepping for it. There's no

is you're prepping for it. There's no distraction. You're in this moment.

distraction. You're in this moment. You're staring at your wife. Took all

You're staring at your wife. Took all day to look as beautiful as she could.

day to look as beautiful as she could. You're thinking of your whole

You're thinking of your whole relationship. And then you have this

relationship. And then you have this moment like we bicker about this that

moment like we bicker about this that this that. And those are just all washed

this that. And those are just all washed away. And you just remember that like

away. And you just remember that like you and this woman have this connection

you and this woman have this connection that you're agreeing to be together

that you're agreeing to be together forever. That no matter what happens,

forever. That no matter what happens, it's like endless. And she accepts you

it's like endless. And she accepts you for all that you are regardless of. She

for all that you are regardless of. She knows who you are, too. She's seen you

knows who you are, too. She's seen you at your worst, at your best. All this

at your worst, at your best. All this [ __ ] that you lie to everybody about. I

[ __ ] that you lie to everybody about. I don't do that. I would never act like

don't do that. I would never act like that. I would never do. She's seen all

that. I would never do. She's seen all of it. She knows all of it. And yet,

of it. She knows all of it. And yet, she's choosing to come and be with you

she's choosing to come and be with you forever. You know, men don't take enough

forever. You know, men don't take enough time to think about these things. So, in

time to think about these things. So, in that moment, there's just they probably

that moment, there's just they probably don't even know what's coming up. And I

don't even know what's coming up. And I don't didn't fully myself when I was

don't didn't fully myself when I was crying. I cried the first look the vows

crying. I cried the first look the vows and walking down. So there was multiple

and walking down. So there was multiple moments of so maybe I need to think

moments of so maybe I need to think about it too but I don't think we give

about it too but I don't think we give ourselves enough time to really reflect

ourselves enough time to really reflect and think about how special that is and

and think about how special that is and how important that is to our lives.

how important that is to our lives. >> I think the what you're suggesting is

>> I think the what you're suggesting is that women would have maybe processed

that women would have maybe processed and alchemized and done like little ups

and alchemized and done like little ups and downs like oh that's a thing oh

and downs like oh that's a thing oh that's interesting oh that's a thing oh

that's interesting oh that's a thing oh that's interesting whereas you've gone

that's interesting whereas you've gone like nothing nothing holy [ __ ] like you

like nothing nothing holy [ __ ] like you get catapulted to the moon. Yeah. Um,

get catapulted to the moon. Yeah. Um, yeah. I think another thing,

yeah. I think another thing, one consideration is being the groom at

one consideration is being the groom at a wedding is a little bit like being the

a wedding is a little bit like being the first fighter in the ring. That once

first fighter in the ring. That once you've done, you've done your walk out

you've done, you've done your walk out and now you're just stood there

and now you're just stood there nervously shadow boxing and then you've

nervously shadow boxing and then you've got to wait for the the other your

got to wait for the the other your opponent or your other half to come down

opponent or your other half to come down the aisle. So, you're just sort of sat

the aisle. So, you're just sort of sat watching. You're like, you don't you

watching. You're like, you don't you can't move around or pace. There's no

can't move around or pace. There's no blowing off of energy. You're just sort

blowing off of energy. You're just sort of sat watching this thing unfold and

of sat watching this thing unfold and you're like, "Oh god, the emotions are

you're like, "Oh god, the emotions are coming." Uh,

coming." Uh, [Laughter]

[Laughter] let him out.

let him out. >> Yeah. What about um

>> Yeah. What about um I guess one of the challenges that at

I guess one of the challenges that at least it seems

least it seems you had in part during Olympia prep

you had in part during Olympia prep but would have been hidden by the pull

but would have been hidden by the pull toward the final goal would have been

toward the final goal would have been thinking and overthinking and asking

thinking and overthinking and asking questions and

questions and getting caught up in thought which I

getting caught up in thought which I think a lot of people can resonate with.

think a lot of people can resonate with. Um,

Um, when you can no longer hide those

when you can no longer hide those fleeting thoughts and those emotions in

fleeting thoughts and those emotions in the

the the pull, the momentum, the drive toward

the pull, the momentum, the drive toward this end goal,

this end goal, how much more difficult has it been to

how much more difficult has it been to not to not overthink and not not not get

not to not overthink and not not not get lost in thought and not deal with

lost in thought and not deal with self-doubt and and and self-esteem and

self-doubt and and and self-esteem and stuff like that? Has that been a

stuff like that? Has that been a challenge?

challenge? I think to a fault, I've busied myself

I think to a fault, I've busied myself with even more things with the amount I

with even more things with the amount I have going on in my life right now. And

have going on in my life right now. And it's hard too as a like I say, I'm very

it's hard too as a like I say, I'm very busy and I'm busy, but I kind of like

busy and I'm busy, but I kind of like overstretch that. Hopefully, no one at

overstretch that. Hopefully, no one at work was watching this because I spend

work was watching this because I spend my mornings slow with my family and my

my mornings slow with my family and my nights slow with my family. So, in

nights slow with my family. So, in between, I only have x amount of time to

between, I only have x amount of time to work out and do everything I need for

work out and do everything I need for work. and I travel a lot. So, I try and

work. and I travel a lot. So, I try and prioritize as much time as I can of not

prioritize as much time as I can of not like being busy essentially. But those

like being busy essentially. But those moments are still very like present with

moments are still very like present with your family, but that's not going inward

your family, but that's not going inward and reflecting and what you're going

and reflecting and what you're going through. There's no down time or alone

through. There's no down time or alone time ever in a day anymore.

time ever in a day anymore. >> And I I'm learning to I'm going to need

>> And I I'm learning to I'm going to need to restructure and find that and create

to restructure and find that and create a schedule now for doing nothing because

a schedule now for doing nothing because >> that's in conflict with I want to be a

>> that's in conflict with I want to be a good dad, right? It's finding a balance,

good dad, right? It's finding a balance, you know, and understanding, well, will

you know, and understanding, well, will it make me a better dad to do this? Will

it make me a better dad to do this? Will it make me a better husband to be able

it make me a better husband to be able to work through these things so that I

to work through these things so that I can be even more present and show up as

can be even more present and show up as more of myself in more moments, you

more of myself in more moments, you know, and balancing all that out is just

know, and balancing all that out is just part of the difficulties of life. But it

part of the difficulties of life. But it becomes a challenge, you know, and for

becomes a challenge, you know, and for Courtney even more than me, it's you get

Courtney even more than me, it's you get no time off as a mom, you know, it's

no time off as a mom, you know, it's it's not like

it's not like >> especially when your child's young and

>> especially when your child's young and they constantly need to be doing

they constantly need to be doing something, you know, it's like they

something, you know, it's like they can't go play on the by their own

can't go play on the by their own really. They're too young for that

really. They're too young for that still.

still. >> So, I think that's still been a

>> So, I think that's still been a challenge for me. And even just having

challenge for me. And even just having enough time to speak with Courtney

enough time to speak with Courtney alone, you know, is without distraction,

alone, you know, is without distraction, without, hey, we start talking and the

without, hey, we start talking and the baby starts crying or wants to not be

baby starts crying or wants to not be here or throwing food or something. It's

here or throwing food or something. It's like constantly kind of interrupted. And

like constantly kind of interrupted. And for me, a huge thing that helped me to

for me, a huge thing that helped me to process stuff was being able to

process stuff was being able to communicate with her about it. And just

communicate with her about it. And just to be able to talk about it and let her

to be able to talk about it and let her see me and work through things like

see me and work through things like that. And we've had less time to do

that. And we've had less time to do that. So again, that kind of sprint when

that. So again, that kind of sprint when you first have a children is kind of

you first have a children is kind of like chaos. And then you come out of it

like chaos. And then you come out of it and you're like, "Okay, we still need to

and you're like, "Okay, we still need to figure out how to have alone time. We

figure out how to have alone time. We still need to have figure out how to

still need to have figure out how to have a loan time together as a couple

have a loan time together as a couple and prioritize this." And sometimes it's

and prioritize this." And sometimes it's not possible, though. You are getting

not possible, though. You are getting through the best you can without it. But

through the best you can without it. But when you get to a point where you can,

when you get to a point where you can, you need it. So I think I haven't had

you need it. So I think I haven't had more time to sit and reflective

more time to sit and reflective thoughts. If anything, I haven't had

thoughts. If anything, I haven't had enough.

enough. >> And I have never been someone who

>> And I have never been someone who doesn't do well when I have too much

doesn't do well when I have too much time to sit and think. If anything, I

time to sit and think. If anything, I usually helps me to think and work

usually helps me to think and work through things. So,

through things. So, >> I'm trying to carve out more time for

>> I'm trying to carve out more time for that. And, you know, it's part of the

that. And, you know, it's part of the reason why I've been a little bit more

reason why I've been a little bit more like

like I think anxious recently and on edge and

I think anxious recently and on edge and just like rolling through and bouncing

just like rolling through and bouncing because I haven't had time to sit back

because I haven't had time to sit back and reflect enough. Even when we've done

and reflect enough. Even when we've done podcasts in the past, I know I've been

podcasts in the past, I know I've been like, "Okay,

like, "Okay, >> let me like do some time like

>> let me like do some time like journaling." [ __ ] if I were to write

journaling." [ __ ] if I were to write a I do this I used to do this thing way

a I do this I used to do this thing way more where I like I would write a

more where I like I would write a chapter of a book about something I'm

chapter of a book about something I'm going through that would never get

going through that would never get published anywhere just like a biography

published anywhere just like a biography of myself and just write through

of myself and just write through something and think about and that would

something and think about and that would allow me to talk about things a lot

allow me to talk about things a lot better and okay I'm going to do a

better and okay I'm going to do a podcast like start reflecting more go

podcast like start reflecting more go inward what are you going to talk about

inward what are you going to talk about what are you feeling recently this

what are you feeling recently this what's coming up I was like okay I'm

what's coming up I was like okay I'm going to do that last night I'm lying in

going to do that last night I'm lying in bed like I didn't do it once and I'm

bed like I didn't do it once and I'm tired I'm going to bed you know like it

tired I'm going to bed you know like it just it's part of life how it changes

just it's part of life how it changes And

And even within that, it's just finding the

even within that, it's just finding the moments that you can, you know. And

moments that you can, you know. And again, like my relationship is such a

again, like my relationship is such a big thing. Courtney literally sent me a

big thing. Courtney literally sent me a text actually last night that almost

text actually last night that almost like put me in tears cuz I was like

like put me in tears cuz I was like going to bed like hard anxious. And it

going to bed like hard anxious. And it was like she just sent something saying

was like she just sent something saying like, "I see you essentially." And I was

like, "I see you essentially." And I was like, "I don't need to be [ __ ]

like, "I don't need to be [ __ ] reflecting and doing this. I just need

reflecting and doing this. I just need to slow down and like I understand it's

to slow down and like I understand it's okay as it is."

okay as it is." >> So beautiful, man. I mean, this is my

>> So beautiful, man. I mean, this is my favorite conversation that we've had of

favorite conversation that we've had of of all three. So,

of all three. So, >> you know, maybe maybe actually writing

>> you know, maybe maybe actually writing was

was >> hurting it.

>> hurting it. >> Yeah. Performance performance detractor.

>> Yeah. Performance performance detractor. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um,

>> Um, >> you know, when you think about

>> you know, when you think about what's been hidden in some of the fog of

what's been hidden in some of the fog of chaos over the last year,

chaos over the last year, >> what do you think will be the emotions

>> what do you think will be the emotions that maybe you weren't letting yourself

that maybe you weren't letting yourself feel? Is there anything that you when

feel? Is there anything that you when you spend a little bit of time hearing

you spend a little bit of time hearing those quieter voices in the back of your

those quieter voices in the back of your mind,

mind, what are the things that have come up

what are the things that have come up that you've probably been a little bit

that you've probably been a little bit too afraid or too distracted to be able

too afraid or too distracted to be able to hear?

Sure, there's a lot, but one thing I know, I have a pretty like

know, I have a pretty like on and off have a pretty

on and off have a pretty self-deprecating voice inside my head in

self-deprecating voice inside my head in many ways. Like I'll beat myself up and

many ways. Like I'll beat myself up and then I won't let myself feel beat up.

then I won't let myself feel beat up. Like well your life's so good. You

Like well your life's so good. You shouldn't be stressed out. Like this is

shouldn't be stressed out. Like this is hard. But like I so grateful for this is

hard. But like I so grateful for this is I shouldn't I shouldn't feel like that.

I shouldn't I shouldn't feel like that. So I won't even let myself feel that. So

So I won't even let myself feel that. So >> shame at your own self-criticism.

>> shame at your own self-criticism. >> Exactly. Yeah. So, I guess having

>> Exactly. Yeah. So, I guess having empathy for myself within those thoughts

empathy for myself within those thoughts and

and >> being conscious enough of them to see

>> being conscious enough of them to see them and change them and grow through

them and change them and grow through them rather than just constantly

them rather than just constantly subconsciously beating myself up and

subconsciously beating myself up and saying you're not good enough and you're

saying you're not good enough and you're not allowed not only that, but you're

not allowed not only that, but you're not allowed to feel not good enough.

not allowed to feel not good enough. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> But even mundane things of like

>> But even mundane things of like expressing emotion like gratitude or

expressing emotion like gratitude or like complimenting people and stuff

like complimenting people and stuff sometimes feels hard when you're unaware

sometimes feels hard when you're unaware of it, you know, in a culture where it's

of it, you know, in a culture where it's like

like you just kind of go inward as a man. You

you just kind of go inward as a man. You don't really like go to a bro, a guy,

don't really like go to a bro, a guy, like a friend and be like,

like a friend and be like, >> "Wow, when you said this to me, I really

>> "Wow, when you said this to me, I really appreciated when you helped me with

appreciated when you helped me with that." Like you mean so much to me.

that." Like you mean so much to me. Thank you for being in my life. You

Thank you for being in my life. You know, like those little things like that

know, like those little things like that is even a vulnerable thing that you're

is even a vulnerable thing that you're like withholding cuz like I said

like withholding cuz like I said earlier, it's like high risk, low

earlier, it's like high risk, low reward. It's unsafe. You know, from

reward. It's unsafe. You know, from whatever it was in your childhood where

whatever it was in your childhood where emotions started to feel unsafe. You

emotions started to feel unsafe. You build this idea of I can't remember who

build this idea of I can't remember who explained it of the idea when you're

explained it of the idea when you're young, you either choose to be authentic

young, you either choose to be authentic or accept it. You usually have to pick

or accept it. You usually have to pick between one of the two.

between one of the two. >> And you will always choose to be

>> And you will always choose to be accepted because as a baby, subconscious

accepted because as a baby, subconscious of course, but as a baby, if you're not

of course, but as a baby, if you're not accepted by your parents or whatever,

accepted by your parents or whatever, you get kicked out, you die or as a

you get kicked out, you die or as a child even cuz you can't survive on your

child even cuz you can't survive on your own. So, you'll sacrifice authenticity

own. So, you'll sacrifice authenticity to be accepted by your parents if

to be accepted by your parents if they're feeling like, "Oh, if I'm angry,

they're feeling like, "Oh, if I'm angry, they put me in a corner or if I do this,

they put me in a corner or if I do this, then they're mad at me. So, I'm going to

then they're mad at me. So, I'm going to avoid doing the things that upset them,

avoid doing the things that upset them, which is my authentic self and what I'm

which is my authentic self and what I'm feeling in order to be accepted." And

feeling in order to be accepted." And then that carves out how you live your

then that carves out how you live your life forever. And then you slowly need

life forever. And then you slowly need to peel those layers back over time to

to peel those layers back over time to get back to your authentic self.

get back to your authentic self. >> And even figuring out what that is,

>> And even figuring out what that is, >> which is even harder when you have

>> which is even harder when you have public persona and momentum and bravado

public persona and momentum and bravado and expectation

and expectation and attachment, sense of identity all

and attachment, sense of identity all tied up in this thing that's outside out

tied up in this thing that's outside out there performance. I must be that.

there performance. I must be that. >> Yeah. The greater the self-image, the

>> Yeah. The greater the self-image, the harder it is to break.

harder it is to break. beauty of

beauty of social media influencing in this world

social media influencing in this world too.

too. >> It's a curse of success as well, right?

>> It's a curse of success as well, right? That again, wildly unpopular opinion

That again, wildly unpopular opinion that nobody wants to hear, but

that nobody wants to hear, but if your uh self-image is one that isn't

if your uh self-image is one that isn't sought after and all that admirable or

sought after and all that admirable or admired, might be admirable but but not

admired, might be admirable but but not admired.

admired. It's significantly easier for you to be

It's significantly easier for you to be flexible with it, but as soon as you

flexible with it, but as soon as you start to get some positive reinforcement

start to get some positive reinforcement from the world,

from the world, like you have something to lose.

like you have something to lose. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> Right. The the person that came number

>> Right. The the person that came number two last year and is going to be number

two last year and is going to be number one this year, oh my god, look at the

one this year, oh my god, look at the trajectory. But if you're the champion

trajectory. But if you're the champion that fell off, and it's the same thing

that fell off, and it's the same thing with your identity, it's much harder to

with your identity, it's much harder to let something go when it's proven to you

let something go when it's proven to you that it is a place that you can actually

that it is a place that you can actually get. Finally, the world gives me at

get. Finally, the world gives me at least a little bit of validation. Give

least a little bit of validation. Give me at least a little bit of um it's way

me at least a little bit of um it's way harder when there's actually something

harder when there's actually something to lose there. which is so interesting

to lose there. which is so interesting because I I imagine you can agree or

because I I imagine you can agree or relate to this of like I feel like a lot

relate to this of like I feel like a lot of people have sacrificed authenticity

of people have sacrificed authenticity and not to the point of like these

and not to the point of like these people are fake and they suck. Like

people are fake and they suck. Like we're all just struggling to do the best

we're all just struggling to do the best we can, but there's like this theme of

we can, but there's like this theme of so many people I talk to where even if

so many people I talk to where even if someone's a dick, you're like at least

someone's a dick, you're like at least they're being themselves.

they're being themselves. >> It's just I'm just glad they're being

>> It's just I'm just glad they're being authentic cuz they're an [ __ ]

authentic cuz they're an [ __ ] They're not or they're saying some crazy

They're not or they're saying some crazy ass [ __ ] where like at least they're

ass [ __ ] where like at least they're being honest. There's this like weird

being honest. There's this like weird appreciation recently amongst people I

appreciation recently amongst people I speak to where someone could be the type

speak to where someone could be the type of personality that is annoying or you

of personality that is annoying or you don't want to be around, but if you know

don't want to be around, but if you know it's like they're being authentic or

it's like they're being authentic or they're not doing it to get something

they're not doing it to get something out of anyone or to prove something,

out of anyone or to prove something, there's that's just

there's that's just >> the type of respect that comes from

>> the type of respect that comes from that.

that. >> At least they're being honest, you know?

>> At least they're being honest, you know? It's like a justification for things. At

It's like a justification for things. At least that's better than being fake.

least that's better than being fake. >> So true. It's so true. I uh

>> So true. It's so true. I uh I wonder why. I mean, maybe it's always

I wonder why. I mean, maybe it's always been the case, or maybe it's more tuned

been the case, or maybe it's more tuned up now that

up now that the curation of everybody's lives online

the curation of everybody's lives online means

means no one feels real.

no one feels real. >> Mhm. And

>> Mhm. And there's already a ton of

there's already a ton of uh

uh justifications for why you should hide

justifications for why you should hide your true self. And people do it, and

your true self. And people do it, and they don't want to show this bit of

they don't want to show this bit of them, and they're scared. And it's a

them, and they're scared. And it's a good example of that. Uh, it doesn't

good example of that. Uh, it doesn't take much to make me tear up. I think

take much to make me tear up. I think I've cried on the show. You'll be

I've cried on the show. You'll be episode 980 or something. I think I've

episode 980 or something. I think I've cried on the show maybe twice, maybe two

cried on the show maybe twice, maybe two or three times. And there's tons tons of

or three times. And there's tons tons of times where there's been something that

times where there's been something that I could have let myself feel and I've

I could have let myself feel and I've decided to like

decided to like swerve around it or laugh it off or just

swerve around it or laugh it off or just not fully embrace that thing. And that's

not fully embrace that thing. And that's one tiny little part over and over and

one tiny little part over and over and over and over again. This ex sense of

over and over again. This ex sense of expectation.

expectation. Who am I supposed to be?

Is is it okay to be that? Like what are people going to think? Maybe they'll

people going to think? Maybe they'll laugh at me.

laugh at me. It's a

It's a a challenge that only gets sort of

a challenge that only gets sort of deeper, I think.

deeper, I think. >> Mhm. Because

>> Mhm. Because the more attuned you are to your

the more attuned you are to your emotions, the like richer your

emotions, the like richer your experience of them. It's like just I'm

experience of them. It's like just I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm anxious, I'm

sad, I'm angry, I'm anxious, I'm depressed, whatever. It's like I'm

depressed, whatever. It's like I'm feeling something that's really really

feeling something that's really really rich and wide. And that's your thing of

rich and wide. And that's your thing of you can't feel the good without feeling

you can't feel the good without feeling the bad. Um

the bad. Um >> yeah, it's uh

>> yeah, it's uh >> it's so interesting cuz I feel like

>> it's so interesting cuz I feel like people would look at me and be like,

people would look at me and be like, "Oh, you're great at that." And like my

"Oh, you're great at that." And like my career and a lot of it, my relationship,

career and a lot of it, my relationship, a lot of things started from the first

a lot of things started from the first video I put on YouTube of me crying. But

video I put on YouTube of me crying. But even myself,

even myself, >> even your marriage.

>> even your marriage. >> My marriage. Yeah. Even myself as a man,

>> My marriage. Yeah. Even myself as a man, like yes, I did that. But there's And

like yes, I did that. But there's And I've cried other times. I've cried on

I've cried other times. I've cried on stage giving a speech and all these

stage giving a speech and all these things. But it's like I have to have

things. But it's like I have to have gone through something extremely

gone through something extremely difficult and then it's okay that I

difficult and then it's okay that I cried. I just did something incredible

cried. I just did something incredible and now I'm on stage and is this like

and now I'm on stage and is this like extremely masculine

extremely masculine show of success and now it's okay to

show of success and now it's okay to cry. And then in the moments in between,

cry. And then in the moments in between, I've done the same thing where I've

I've done the same thing where I've started to cry in public or something.

started to cry in public or something. It's just you fight it, you fight it.

It's just you fight it, you fight it. And it's like, well, then I don't want

And it's like, well, then I don't want to become the guy who just cries all the

to become the guy who just cries all the time.

time. >> You know, there's like as a man, it's

>> You know, there's like as a man, it's like there's a balance of how much

like there's a balance of how much you're allowed to cry until you're the

you're allowed to cry until you're the guy who cries too much. And it's just a

guy who cries too much. And it's just a challenge I feel like to be able to

challenge I feel like to be able to authentically let that stuff out and to

authentically let that stuff out and to feel all those emotions as they come up.

feel all those emotions as they come up. And I'm the talking about it more than

And I'm the talking about it more than anyone. And it's because I speak about

anyone. And it's because I speak about it is because it's a struggle of

it is because it's a struggle of something I work on. Did I ever show you

something I work on. Did I ever show you the manpoints essay I wrote about you?

the manpoints essay I wrote about you? >> A nine-point essay?

>> A nine-point essay? >> Man points?

>> Man points? >> Oh, man points.

>> Oh, man points. >> Men need to accumulate sufficient man

>> Men need to accumulate sufficient man points before they can open up about

points before they can open up about their feelings. It feels like men have

their feelings. It feels like men have to earn the right to talk about their

to earn the right to talk about their emotions. Chris Bumstead can talk about

emotions. Chris Bumstead can talk about crying and fear and insecurities, but

crying and fear and insecurities, but only because he's the greatest

only because he's the greatest bodybuilder of his era and a six-time

bodybuilder of his era and a six-time champion. Only men who have achieved

champion. Only men who have achieved some degree of success in typical

some degree of success in typical masculine pursuits like status,

masculine pursuits like status, resources, attractiveness, muscularity,

resources, attractiveness, muscularity, and strength can open up about emotions

and strength can open up about emotions with credibility. Once they've

with credibility. Once they've accumulated sufficient manpoints, some

accumulated sufficient manpoints, some unspoken video game level unlock happens

unspoken video game level unlock happens where emotions are finally allowed. But

where emotions are finally allowed. But opening up before having the requisite

opening up before having the requisite man points is interpreted as feeble and

man points is interpreted as feeble and weak. The world still has many aches

weak. The world still has many aches around men showing their emotions, but

around men showing their emotions, but far fewer if it comes from a place of

far fewer if it comes from a place of prestige than one of poverty. And even

prestige than one of poverty. And even the guy who has all of the bits of

the guy who has all of the bits of prestige to permit him to do it feels

prestige to permit him to do it feels like he needs to accumulate little

like he needs to accumulate little credits within that go, I did something

credits within that go, I did something really hard and now I'm okay to be

really hard and now I'm okay to be emotional.

emotional. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> This it's a tough one. It's a tough one.

>> This it's a tough one. It's a tough one. And I but again a place where I don't

And I but again a place where I don't feel like that that home with my wife,

feel like that that home with my wife, you know, there's no like holding back

you know, there's no like holding back of tears there because that's the place

of tears there because that's the place where I'm safe. And we talk about like

where I'm safe. And we talk about like oh like on stage, on social media, on a

oh like on stage, on social media, on a podcast or on YouTube, that's like

podcast or on YouTube, that's like that's not real life. That shouldn't

that's not real life. That shouldn't even exist, you know? It's not a lot of

even exist, you know? It's not a lot of it isn't really serving people. Your

it isn't really serving people. Your real life is with the people who know

real life is with the people who know you and see you. And that's where it's

you and see you. And that's where it's important to have relationships with

important to have relationships with people who you can be safe with.

people who you can be safe with. That's when it's hard when you don't

That's when it's hard when you don't even have that in my opinion.

even have that in my opinion. >> There's not anywhere on the planet

>> There's not anywhere on the planet >> if you don't even have anyone which I

>> if you don't even have anyone which I feel like

feel like >> I hope most people some people don't of

>> I hope most people some people don't of course I think some people do and are

course I think some people do and are >> I think it's an increasing number of

>> I think it's an increasing number of people who don't.

people who don't. >> Yeah,

>> Yeah, >> I think it is and I think it's uh

>> I think it is and I think it's uh something increasingly needed and

something increasingly needed and decreasingly hard.

decreasingly hard. >> Yeah. I think there's a come of people

>> Yeah. I think there's a come of people being so afraid to earn it too.

being so afraid to earn it too. >> Mhm. like to do the things to build the

>> Mhm. like to do the things to build the relationship to keep up and to check in

relationship to keep up and to check in with and to let them cry with you to

with and to let them cry with you to then build a strong enough safe enough

then build a strong enough safe enough relationship.

relationship. >> Allow them to be a burden so you can be

>> Allow them to be a burden so you can be a burden. Exactly. Don't keep score

a burden. Exactly. Don't keep score about who was a burden the most.

about who was a burden the most. >> Yeah. Doesn't need to be even.

>> Yeah. Doesn't need to be even. >> Yeah. It's crazy.

>> Yeah. It's crazy. >> Dude, I love you. I I appreciate very

>> Dude, I love you. I I appreciate very much the impact that you've had on me

much the impact that you've had on me and everybody else as well. So, I uh I

and everybody else as well. So, I uh I look forward to seeing what comes next.

look forward to seeing what comes next. And uh

And uh yeah, I I really really hope that you

yeah, I I really really hope that you don't stop talking about the stuff that

don't stop talking about the stuff that you do because I think you've got more

you do because I think you've got more now to actually add to the world than

now to actually add to the world than you did when you were on stage. So,

you did when you were on stage. So, well, I appreciate that and hoping to

well, I appreciate that and hoping to discover that myself and life does is

discover that myself and life does is changing very fast. So,

changing very fast. So, I hope I hope so. And some of my

I hope I hope so. And some of my greatest moments I've had with people

greatest moments I've had with people are talking about my podcast with you

are talking about my podcast with you and what I've shared here. So, I

and what I've shared here. So, I appreciate the opportunity to do this

appreciate the opportunity to do this for a third time and hopefully have a

for a third time and hopefully have a fourth. I'd love to. Chris Bumpstead

fourth. I'd love to. Chris Bumpstead said, "Ladies and gentlemen,

said, "Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for tuning in. This

thank you very much for tuning in. This was probably my favorite conversation

was probably my favorite conversation I've ever had with Chris and the other

I've ever had with Chris and the other two were fantastic. Also had a really

two were fantastic. Also had a really great conversation with Sam Sulk,

great conversation with Sam Sulk, which you can watch right here. Come on.

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YouTube Transcript:How To Find Direction When Nothing Feels Right - Chris Bumstead (4K)

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How To Find Direction When Nothing Feels Right - Chris Bumstead (4K)