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Ex-Google Exec (WARNING): The Next 15 Years Will Be Hell Before We Get To Heaven! - Mo Gawdat

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The only way for us to get to a better

place and succeed as a species is for

the evil people at the top to be

replaced with AI. I mean, think about

it. AI will not want to destroy

ecosystems. It will not want to kill a

million people. They'll not make us hate

each other like the current leaders

because that's a waste of energy,

explosives, money, and people. But the

problem is super intelligent AI is

reporting to stupid leaders. And that's

why in the next 15 years, we are going

to hit a short-term dystopia. There's no

escaping that. They having AI leaders.

Is that even fundamentally possible?

Let's put it this way. Mold Ga is back.

And the former chief business officer at

Google X is now one of the most urgent

voices in AI with a very clear message.

AI isn't your enemy, but it could be

your savior.

I love you so much, man. You're such a

good friend. But you don't have many

years to live. Not in this world.

Everything's going to change. Economics

are going to change. Human connection is

going to change. and lots of jobs will

be lost including podcasting.

No, no. Thank you for coming on today, Mo.

Mo.

But but the truth is it could be the

best world ever. The society completely

full of laughter and joy. Free

healthcare, no jobs, spending more time

with their loved ones. A world where all

of us are equal.

Is that possible?

100%. And I have enough evidence to know

that we can use AI to build the utopia.

But it's a dystopia if humanity manages

it badly. a world where there's going to

be a lot of control, a lot of

surveillance, a lot of forced compliance

and a hunger for power, greed, ego, and

it is happening already. But the truth

is the only barrier between a utopia for

humanity and AI and the dystopia we're

going through is a mindset.

What does society have to do?

I see messages all the time in the

comments section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because a strange way

you are you're part of our history and

you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you.

Mo, two years ago today, we sat here and

discussed AI. We discussed your book,

Scary, Smart, and everything that was

happening in the world.

Since then, AI has continued to develop

at a tremendous, alarming, mind-boggling

rate, and the technologies that existed

2 years ago when we had that

conversation have grown up and matured

and are taking on a life of their own,

no pun intended. What are what are you

thinking about AI now, two years on? I

know that you've started writing a new

book called Alive, which is I guess a

bit of a follow on or an evolution of

your thoughts as it relates to scary smart.

smart.

What what is front of your mind when it

comes to AI?

It's a scary smart was shockingly

accurate. It's quite a I mean I don't

even know how I ended up writing

predicting those things. I remember it

was written in 2020, published in 2021

and then most people were like um who

wants to talk about AI you know I know

everybody in the media and I would go

and do you want to talk and then 2023 CH

GPT comes out and everything flips

everyone realizes you know this is real

this is not science fiction this is here

and uh and things move very very fast

much faster than I think we've ever seen

anything ever move ever And and I think

my position has changed on two very

important fronts. One is remember when

we spoke about scary smart I was still

saying that there are things we can do

to change the course. Uh and we could at

the time I believe uh now I've changed

my mind. Now I believe that we are going

to hit a a short-term dystopia. There's

no escaping that.

What is dystopia?

I call it face rips. We can talk about

it in details but the the the way we

define very important parameters in life

are going to be uh completely changed.

So so face rips are you know the way we

define freedom uh accountability human

connection and equality economics uh

reality innovation and business and

power. That's the first change. So the

first change in my mind is that uh is

that we uh will have to prepare for a

world that is very unfamiliar. Okay. And

that's the next 12 to 15 years. It has

already started. We've seen examples of

it in the world already even though

people don't talk about it. I try to

tell people you know there are things we

absolutely have to do. But on the other

hand I started to take an active role in

building amazing AIs. So AIS that will

uh not only make our world better uh but

that will understand us understand what

humanity is through that process.

What is the definition of the word dystopia?

dystopia?

So in my in my mind these are adverse

circumstances that unfortunately might

escalate beyond our control. The problem

is the uh there is a lot wrong with the

um value set with the ethics of humanity

at the age of the rise of the machines

and when you take a technology every

technology we've ever created just

magnified human abilities. So you know

you can walk at 5 km an hour you get in

a car and you can now go you know 250

280 m an hour. Okay. uh basically

magnifying your mobility if you want you

know you can use a computer to magnify

your u calculation abilities or whatever

okay and and what AI is going to magnify

unfortunately at this time is it's going

to magnify the evil that man can do and

and it is within our hands completely

completely within our hands to change

that but I have to say I don't think

humanity has the awareness uh at this

time to focus on

so that we actually use AI to build the utopia.

utopia.

So what you're essentially saying is

that you now believe there'll be a

period of dystopia and to define the

word dystopia, I've used AI, it says a

terrible society where people live under

fear, control or suffering and then you

think we'll come out of that dystopia

into a utopia which is defined as a

perfect or ideal place where everything

works well, a good society where people

live in peace, health and happiness. Correct.

Correct.

And the difference between them,

interestingly, is what I normally refer

to as the second dilemma, which is the

po point where we hand over completely

to AI. So, a lot of people think that

when AI is in full control, it's going

to be an existential risk for humanity.

You know, I have enough uh evidence to

to argue that when we fully hand over to

AI, that's going to be our salvation.

that the problem with us today is not,

you know, that intelligence is going to

work against us. It's that our stupidity

as humans is working against us. And I

think the challenges that will come from

humans being in control uh are going to

outweigh the

the challenges that could come from AI

being in control.

So, as we're in this dystopia period,

did you do you forecast the length of

that dystopia? Yeah, I count I count it

exactly as 12 to 15 years. I I believe

the beginning of the slope will happen

in 2027. I mean it we will see signs in

26. We've seen signs in 24 but we will

see escalating signs next year and then

a a clear uh slip in 27. Why?

Why?

The geopolitical environment of our

world is not very positive. I mean you

really have to think deeply about not

the not the symptoms but the the reasons

why we are living the world that we live

in here in today is money right and uh

and money for anyone who knows who

really knows money's you and I are

peasants you know we build businesses we

contribute to the world we make things

we sell things and so on real money is

not made there at all real money is made

in lending in fractional reserve, right?

And and you know the biggest lender uh

in the world would want reasons to lend

and those reasons are never as big as

war. I mean think about it, huh? Uh the

world spent $2.71

trillion on war in 2024,

right? A trillion dollars a year in the US.

US.

And when you really think deeply, I

don't mean to be scary here.

You know, weapons have depreciation.

They depreciate over 10 to 30 years.

Most weapons,

they lose their value.

They lose their value and they

depreciate in accounting terms on the

books of an army. The current arsenal of

the US, that's a result of a deep search

with my AI Trixie. You know the current

arsenal I think we we think cost the US

24 to 26 trillion dollars to build. My

conclusion is that a lot of the wars

that are happening around the world

today are a means to get rid of those

weapons so that you can have replace

them. And uh you know when when your

morality as an industry is we're

building weapons to kill then you know

you might as well use the weapons to kill.

kill.

Who benefits? the lenders and the industry,

industry,

but but they can't make the decision to

go to war. They they have to rely on

remember I I said that to you when we I

think on on our third podcast. War is

decided first

then the story is manufactured. You you

remember 1984 and the Orwellian approach

of like you know uh freedom is slavery

and uh war is peace and they call it uh

something speak uh basically to to to to

convince people that going to war in

another country to to kill 4.7 million

people is freedom. You know we're going

there to free the Iraqi people.

Is war ever freedom? you know, to to

tell someone that you're going to kill 300,000

300,000

women and children is for liberty and

for the the the you know, for human values.

values.

Seriously, how do we ever get to believe

that the story is manufactured and then

we follow and humans because we're

gullible uh we cheer up and we say,

"Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are we're on the

right side. They are the bad guys."

Okay. So, let me let me have a let me

have a go at this idea. So, the idea is

that really money is driving a lot of

the conflict we're seeing and it's

really going to be driving the dystopia.

So, here's an idea. So, I um I was

reading something the other day and it

talked about how

billionaires are never satisfied because

actually what a billionaire wants isn't

actually more money. It is more status.

Correct. And I was looking at the sort

of evolutionary case for this argument.

And if you go back a couple of thousand years,

years,

money didn't exist. You were as wealthy

as what you could carry. So even I think

to the human mind, the idea of wealth

and money

isn't a thing. what we've but what has

always mattered from a survival of the

fittest from a reproductive standpoint

what's always had reproductive value if

you go back thousands of years the

person who was able to mate the most was

the person with the most status so it

makes the case the reason why

billionaires get all of this money but

then they go on podcasts and they want

to start their own podcast and they want

to buy newspapers is actually because at

the very core of human beings is a

desire to increase their status.

Yeah. And so if we think of when we

going back to the example of why wars

are breaking out, maybe it's not money.

Maybe actually it's status and and it's

this prime minister or this leader or

this, you know, individual wanting to

create more power and more status

because really at the heart of what

matters to a human being is having more

power and more status. And money is

actually money as a thing is actually

just a proxy of my status.

And and what kind of world is that?

I mean, it's a [ __ ] up one. all these

all these powerful men have uh correct

correct

are really messing the world up. But

so so can can I can I can I

actually AI is the same

because we're in this AI race now where

a lot of billionaires are like if I get

AGI artificial general intelligence

first then I basically rule the world

100%. That's exactly the the concept

what I what I used to call the the the

first inevitable now I call the first

dilemma and scary smart is that it's

it's a race that constantly accelerates.

You think the next 12 years are going to

be AI dystopia where things aren't

I think the next 12 years are going to

be human dystopia using AI

humaninduced dystopia using AI

and you define that by a rise in warfare

around the world as

the last the last one the RIP the last

one is basically you're going to have a

massive concentration of power and a

massive distribution of power okay and

that basically will mean that those with

the maximum concentration of power are

going to try to oppress those with with

democracy of power. Okay, so think about

it this way in today's world um unlike

the past uh

you know the Houthis with a drone the

Houthis are the Yemeni uh tribes

basically resisting US power and Israeli

power in the Red Sea. Okay. They use a

drone that is $3,000 worth to attack a

uh a warship from from the US or an

airplane from the US and so on that's

worth hundreds of millions. Okay, that

kind of democracy of power makes those

in power worry a lot about where the

next threat is coming from. Okay, and

this happens not only in war but also in

economics. Okay, also in innovation,

also in technology and so on and so

forth, right? And so basically what that

means is that like you rightly said as

the the the tech oligarchs are

attempting to get to AGI.

They want to make sure that as soon as

they get to AGI that nobody else has AGI

and and basically they want to make sure

that nobody else has the ability to

shake their position of privilege if you

want. Okay. And so you're going to see a

world where unfortunately there's going

to be a lot of control, a lot of

surveillance, a lot of um of forced

compliance if you want or you lose your

privilege to be in the world and and it

is happening already.

With this acronym, I want to make sure

we get through the whole acronym. So

you like dystopians, don't you?

I want to do the dystopian thing, then I

want to do the utopia. Okay.

Okay.

And ideally how we move from dystopia to utopia.

utopia.

Mhm. So the the the the F in face R

is the loss of freedom as a result of

that power dichotomy. Right? So you have

you have a massive amount of power as

you can see today in uh one specific

army being powered by the US uh funds

and a lot of money righting against

peasants really that have no weapons

almost at all.

Okay. Some of them uh are militarized

but the majority of the mill two million

people are not. Okay. And so there is

massive massive power that basically

says, you know what, I'm going to

oppress as far as I go. Okay. And I'm

going to do whatever I want because the

cheerleaders are going to be quiet,

right? Or they're going to cheer or even

worse. Huh? And so basically in in that

what happens is max maximum power

threatened by a democracy of power leads

to a loss of freedom. A loss of freedom

for everyone.

Because how does that impact my freedom?

Your freedom. Yeah,

very soon uh you will if you publish

this episode you're going to start to

get questions around should you be

talking about this those topics in your

podcast. Okay. Uh you know uh if I uh

have been on this episode then probably

next time I land in the US someone will

question me say why do you say those

things? Which side are you on? Right?

and and and and you know you can easily

see that everything I mean I I told you

that before doesn't matter what I try to

contribute to the world my bank will

cancel my bank account every 6 weeks

simply because of my ethnicity and my

origin right every now and then they'll

just stop my my bank account and say we

need a document

my other colleagues of a different color

or a different ethnicity don't get asked

for another document right but but but

that's because I come from an ethnicity

that is positioned in the world for the

last 30 40 years as the uh enemy. Okay?

And and so when you really really think

about it, in a world where everything is

becoming digital, in a world where

everything is monitored, in a world

where everything is seen, okay, we don't

have much freedom anymore. And I'm not

actually debating that or or I don't see

a way to fix that

because the AI is going to have more

information on us, be better at tracking

who we are, and therefore that will

result in certain freedoms being

restricted. Is that what you're saying?

This is one element of it. Okay. If you

push that element further

in in in in a very short time if you've

seen agent for example recently manos or

chat GPT there will be a time where you

know you'll simply not do things

yourself anymore. Okay. You'll simply go

to your AI and say hey by the way I'm

going to meet Stephen. Can you please

you know book that for me? Great.

Great.

And and and yeah and it will do

absolutely everything. That's great

until the moment where it decides to do

things that are not motivated only by

your well-being. Right. Why would he do that?

that?

Simply because, you know, maybe if I buy

a BA ticket instead of an Emirates

ticket, some agent is going to make more

money than other agents and so on,

right? Uh and I wouldn't be able to even

catch it up if I hand over completely to

an AI. Uh go go a step further. Huh?

Think about a world where everyone

almost everyone is on UBI. Okay.

What's UBI?

Universal basic income. I mean, think

about the economics, the E and face

rips. Think about the economics of a

world where we're going to start to see

a trillionaire

before 2030. I can guarantee you that

someone will be a trillionaire. I'm I'm

you know I think there are many

trillionaires in the world today or

there we just don't know who they are.

But there will be a new Elon Musk or

Larry Allison that will become a

trillionaire because of AI investments,

right? And and that trillionaire will

have so much money to buy everything.

There will be robots and AIs doing

everything and humans will have no jobs. Mean

Mean

do you think that's a there's a real

possibility of job displacement over the

next 10 years? And the the rebuttal to

that would be that there's going to be

new jobs created in technology.

Absolute crap. Really?

Really?

Of course.

How how can you be so sure?

Okay. So again, I am not sure about

anything. So So let's just be very very

clear. It would be very arrogant. Okay.

To assume that I know

you just said it was crap.

My my belief is it is 100% crap.

Take a job like software developer. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. Uh Emma would love my my new

startup is me, Senad, another technical

engineer and a lot of AIS. Okay. That

startup would have been 350 developers

in the past.

I get that. Um but are you now hiring in

other roles because of that or or you

know as is the case with the steam

engine? I can't remember the effect but

there's you probably know that when

steam when coal became cheaper people

were worried that the coal industry

would go out of business but actually

what happened is people used more trains

so trains now were used for transport

and other things and leisure whereas

before they were just used for commu for

um cargo. Yeah. So there became more use

cases and the coal industry exploded. So

I'm wondering with technology, yeah,

software developers are going to maybe

not have as many jobs, but there

everything's going to be software.

Name me one.

Name you one. What job?

job?

Name you that's going to be created.

Yeah. One job that cannot be done by an AI.

AI. Yeah.

Yeah.

Or a robot.

My girlfriend's breath work retreat

business where she takes groups of women

around the world. Her company is called

Barley Breathwork. And there's going to

be a greater demand for connection,

human connection.

Correct. Keep going.

So there's going to be more people doing

community events in real life festivals.

I think we're going to see a huge surge

in things like

everything that has to do with human connection.

connection. Yeah,

Yeah,

correct. I'm totally in with that. Okay.

What's the percentage of that versus accountant?

accountant?

It's a much smaller percentage for sure

in terms of white collar jobs.

Now, who does she sell to?

People with probably what? probably

accountants or you know

correct she she sells to people who earn

money from their jobs. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. So you have two forces happening.

One force is there are clear jobs that

will be replaced. Video editor is going

to be replaced. Uh

excuse me.

I love

as as a matter of fact podcaster is

going to be replaced.

Thank you for coming on today Mo. It was

seeing you again.

But but but the truth is a lot so so you

see the best at any job will remain the

best software developer the one that

really knows architecture knows

technology and so on will stay for a

while right and you know one of the

funniest things I I interviewed Max

Tedmar and Max was laughing out loud

saying CEOs are celebrating that they

can now get rid of people and have

productivity gains and cost reductions

because AI can do that job. The one

thing they don't think of is AI will

replace them too. AGI is going to be

better than at everything than humans at

everything including being a CEO. Right?

And you really have to imagine that

there will be a time where most

incompetent CEOs will be replaced. Most

incompetent even breath work. Okay.

Eventually there might actually one of

two things be two things be happening.

on one is either uh you know part part

of that job other than the top breath

work instructors, okay, are going you

know who are going to gather all of the

people that can still afford to pay for

a breath work you know class

they're going to be concentrated at the

top and a lot of the bottom is not going

to be working for one of two reasons.

One is either there is not enough demand

because so many people lost their jobs.

So when you're on UBI, you cannot tell

the government, hey by the way, pay me a

bit more for a breath work class.

UBI being universal basic income just

gives you money every month.

Correct. And if you really think of

freedom and economics, UBI is a very

interesting place to be because

unfortunately I as I said there's

absolutely nothing wrong with AI.

There's a lot wrong with the value set

of humanity at the age of the rise of

the machines, right? And the biggest

value set of humanity is capitalism

today. And capitalism is all about what?

Labor arbitrage.

What's that mean?

I I I hire you to do something. I pay

you a dollar. I pay it I sell it for two.

two.

Okay. And and most people confuse that

because they say, "Oh, but the cost of a

product also includes raw materials and

factories and so on and so forth." All

of that is built is built by labor,

right? So, so basically labor goes and

mines for the material and then the

material is sold for a little bit of

margin then that material is turned into

a machine. It's sold for a little bit of

margin then that machine and so on.

Okay, there's always labor arbitrage in

a world where humanity's minds are being

replaced by uh by AIs, virtual AIs,

okay, and humanity's power strength

within 3 to 5 years time can be replaced

by a robot,

you really have to question how this

world looks like. It could be the best

world ever. And that's what I believe

the utopia will look like because we

were never made to wake up every morning

and just, you know, occupy 20 hours of

our day with work, right? We're not made

for that. But we've fit into that uh uh,

you know, system so well so far that we

started to believe it's our life's purpose.

purpose.

But we choose it. We willingly choose

it. And if you give someone unlimited

money, they still tend to go back to

work or find something to occupy their

time with.

They find something to occupy their time with,

with,

which is usually for so many people is

building something. Philanthropy, a

business%. So you build something. So

between Senad and I, Emma. Love is not

about making money. It's about finding

true love relationships.

What is that? Sorry, just for context.

So So you know,

it's a business you're building just for

the audience context. So, so, so the

idea here is I can, it might become a

unicorn and be worth a billion dollars,

but neither I nor Senate are interested,

okay? We're doing it because we can,

okay? And we're doing it because it can

make a massive difference to the world.

And you have money, though.

It doesn't take that much money anymore

to build anything in the world. This is

labor arbitrage.

But to build something exceptional, it's

still going to take a little bit more

money than building something bad

for the next few years. So whoever has

the capital to build something

exceptional will end up winning.

So so this is a very interesting

understanding of freedom. Okay. This is

the reason why we have the AI arms race.

Okay. Is that the one that owns the

platform is going to be making all the

money and and keeping all the power.

Think think of it this way. When

humanity started the best hunter in the

tribe could maybe feed the tribe for

three to four more years more days. H

and as a as a reward, he gained the

favor of multiple mates in the tribe.

That's it. The top farmer in the tribe

could feed the tribe for a season more.

Okay? And as a result, they got estates

and you know uh and mansions and so on.

The best industrialist in the in a in a

city could actually employ the whole

city, could grow the GDP of their entire

country. And as a result, they became

millionaires. the 1920s.

H the best technologists

now are billionaires. Now what's the

difference between them? The tool the

the hunter only rem depended on their

skills and the automation the entire

automation he had was a spear. The

farmer had way more automation. And the

biggest automation was what? The soil.

The soil did most of the work. The

factory did most of the work. the the

network did most of the work. And so

that inc incredible expansion of wealth

and power and as well the the incredible

impact that something brings is entirely

around the tool that automates. So who's

going to own the tool? Who's going to

own the the the digital soil, the AI

soil? It's the platform owners.

And the platforms you're describing are

things like OpenAI, Gemini, Grock. These

these are interfaces to the platforms.

The platforms are all of the uh of the

uh um tokens, all of the compute that is

in the background, all of the uh all of

the uh uh methodology, the systems, the

algorithms, that's the platform, the AI

itself. You know, Grock is the interface

to it.

I think this is probably worth

explaining in layman's terms to people

that haven't built AI tools yet because

I think I think to the listener

they probably think that every AI

company they're hearing of right now is

building their own AI whereas actually

what's happening is there is really

five, six, seven AI companies in the

world and when I built my AI application

I basically

pay them for every time I use their AI.

So if Steven Bartlett builds an AI at stephvenai.com,

stephvenai.com,

it's not that I've built my own

underlying I've trained my own model.

Really what I'm doing is I'm paying

Sam Alman's chat GPT. Um every single

time I do a a call, I basically um I do

a search or you know I use a token. And

I think that's really important because

most people don't understand that unless

you've built AI, you think, "Oh, look,

you know, there's all these AI companies

popping up. I've got this one for my

email. I've got this one for my dating.

I've got No, no, no, no, no. They're

pretty much I would be I would hazard a

guess that they're probably all OpenAI

at this point.

No, there are quite a few quite

different characters and quite differently,

differently,

but there's like five or six.

There are five or six when it comes to

language models. Yeah. Right. Uh but

interestingly, so yes, I I should say

yes to start and then I should say but

there was an interesting twist with

Deepseek at the beginning of the year.

So what Deepseek did is is they

basically uh nullified the business

model if you want in two ways. one is it

was around a week or two after uh you

know Trump stood you know with pride

saying Stargate is the biggest

investment project in the history and

it's $500 billion to build AI

infrastructure and soft bank and Larry

Allison and and uh Sam Alman were

sitting and so you know beautiful

picture and then DeepSeek R3 comes out

it does the job for a one over 30 of the

cost okay and interestingly is entire

open source and available as an edge AI.

So, so that's really really interesting

because there could be now in the future

as the technology improves the learning

models will be massive but then you can

compress them into something you can

have on your phone and you can download

deepseek literally offline on a

um um you know an off the network

computer and build an AI on it. There's

a website that basically tracks the

um sort of cleanest apples to Apple's

market share of all the website

referrals sent by AI chat bots and

chatbt is currently at 79% roughly about

80%. Perplexi is at 11, Microsoft

copilot about five, Google Gemini is at

about two, Claude's about one and

Deepseek is about 1%. And really like

the the point that I I want to land is

just that when you hear of a new AI app

or tool or this one can make videos,

it's built on one of them. It's

basically built on one of these

really three or four AI platforms that's

controlled really by three or four AI

you know billionaire teams and actually

the one of them that gets to what we

call AGI first where the AI gets really

really advanced

one could say is potentially going to

rule the world as it relates to technology.

technology.

Yes. Uh if if they get enough uh head

what I what I'm more concerned about now

is not AGI, believe it or not. So, AGI

in my mind and I said that back in 2023,

right? Uh that we will get to AGI. At

the time I said 2027, now I believe 2026

latest. Okay. The most interesting

development that nobody's talking about

is self-evolving AIS.

self evolving AIS is

think of it this way if you and I are

hiring the top engineer in the world to

develop our AI models

and with AGI that top engineer in the

world becomes an AI who would you hire

to develop your next generation AI that AI

the one that can teach itself

correct so one of my favorite examples

is called Alpha Evolve so this is

Google's attempt to basically have four

agents working together four AIs working

together to look at the at the code of

the AI and say where is the where are

the performance issues then you know an

agent would say what's the problem

statement what can I uh you know what do

I need to fix uh one that actually

develops the solution one that assesses

the solution and then they continue to

do this and you know I don't remember

the exact figure but I think Google

improved like 8% uh on their AI

infrastructure because of alpha evol

Right? And when you really really think,

don't quote me on the number 8 to 10, 6

to 10, whatever in Google terms, by the

way, that is massive. That's billions

and billions of dollars. Now, the the

the the trick here is this. The trick is

again, you have to think in game theory format.

format.

Is there any scenario we can think of

where if one player uses AI to develop

the next generation AI that the other

players will say no no no no no that's

too much you know takes us out of

control every other player will copy

that model and have their next AI model

developed by an AI.

Is this what Sam Alman talks about who's

the founder of um chatbt/openai

when he talks about a fast takeoff? I

don't know exactly what which what what

which you're referring to but we're all

talking about a point now that we call

the intelligence explosion. So, so there

is a moment in time where you have to

imagine that if AI now is better than

97% of all code developers in the world

and soon we'll be able to look at its

own code own algorithms by the way

they're becoming incredible

mathematicians which wasn't the case

when we last met if they can develop

improve their own code improve their own

algorithms improve their own uh uh you

know uh network architecture or whatever

you can imagine that very quickly the

force applied to developing the next AI

is not going to be a human brain

anymore. It's going to be a much smarter

brain and very quickly as humans like

basically when when we ran the Google

infrastructure when the machine said we

need another server or a proxy server in

that place we followed. we we never

really you know wanted to to object or

verify because you know the code would

probably know better because there are

billions of transactions an hour or a

day and so very quickly those

self-evolving AIs will simply say I need

14 more servers here and we'll just you

know the team will just go ahead and do

it. I watched a video a couple of days

ago where he Sam Alman effectively had

changed his mind because in 2023 which

is when we last met he said the aim was

for um a slow takeoff which is sort of

gradual deployment and open AI's 203

2023 note says a slower takeoff is

easier to make safe and they prefer

iterative rollouts society can adapt in 2025

2025

they changed their mind and Sam Alman said

said

He now thinks a fast takeoff is more

possible than he did a couple of years

ago on the order of a small number of

years rather than a decade. Um, and it

to define what we mean by a fast

takeoff, it's defined as when AI goes

from roughly human level to far beyond

human very quickly, think months to a

few years, faster than governments,

companies, or society can adapt with

little warning, big power shifts, and

hard to control. A slow takeoff, by

contrast, is where capabilities climb

gradually over many years with lots of

warning shots. Um, and the red flags for

a fast takeoff is when AI can

self-improve, run autonomous research

and development and scale with massive

compute compounding gains which will

snowball fast. So, and I think from the

video that I watched of Sam Orman

recently, who again is the founder of

Open Air and HBT, he basically says, and

again I'm paraphrasing here. I will put

it on the screen. We have this community

knows things so I'll write it on the

screen. But he effectively said that

whoever gets to AGI first will have the technology

technology

to develop super intelligence

where the AI can can rapidly increase

its own intelligence and it will

basically leave everyone else behind.

Yes. Uh so that last bit is debatable

but but let's just agree that uh so so

in in a live uh you know one of the

posts I I shared and got a lot of

interest is I refer to the the altman as

a brand not as a human. Okay. So the

altman is that uh persona of a

California disruptive technologist that

disrespects everyone. Okay. and believes

that disruption is good for humanity and

believes that this is good for safety

and like everything else like we say war

is for democracy and freedom they say uh

developing you know putting AI on the

open internet is good for everyone right

it allows us to learn from our mistakes

that was Sam Alman's 2023 spiel and if

you recall at the time I was like this

is the most dangerous you know one of

the clips that really went viral you so

you're you're so clever at finding the

right clips is when I said

I didn't I didn't do the clipping mate

they're team teams remember the clip

where I said we [ __ ] up we always said

don't put them on the open internet

until we know what we're putting out in

the world I'm going to be saying that

yeah we we we [ __ ] up on putting it on

the open internet teaching it to to code

and putting you know agents AI agents

prompting other AIs now AI agents

prompting other AIs are leading to

self-developing AIS and and The problem

is, of course, we, you know, anyone who

has been on the inside of this knew that

this was just a clever spiel made by a

PR manager for Sam Alman to sit with his

dreamy eyes in front of Congress and

say, "We want you to regulate us." Now,

they're saying, "We're unregulable."

Okay? And and when you really understand

what's happening here, what's happening

is it's so fast

that none of them has the choice to slow

down. It's impossible. Neither China

versus America or OpenAI versus Google.

the that the the only thing that I may

have may see happening that you you know

that that may differ a little bit from

your statement is if one of them gets

there first uh then they dominate for

the rest of humanity that is probably

true if they get there first uh with

within enough buffer. Okay. But the way

you look at Grock coming a week after

open AI, a week after uh you know

Gemini, a week after Claude and then

Claude comes again and then China

releases something and then Korea

releases some something. It is so fast

that we may get a few of them at the

same time or a few months apart. Okay,

before one of them has enough power to

become dominant. And that is a very

interesting scenario.

multiple AIs, all super intelligent.

It's funny, you know, I I I got asked

yesterday, I was in I was in Belgium on

stage. There was, I don't know, maybe

4,000 people in the audience and a kid

stood up and he was like, um, you've had

a lot of conversations in the last year

about AI. Like, why do you care? And I

don't think people realize how,

even though I've had so many

conversations on this podcast about AI, you

you

haven't made up your mind.

I I I have more questions than ever.

I know. And it's and it doesn't seem

that anyone can satiate.

Anyone that tells you they can predict

the future is arrogant. Yeah.

Yeah.

It is. It's never moved so fast.

It's nothing like nothing I've ever

seen. And you know, by the time that we

leave this conversation and I go to my

computer, there's going to be some

incredible new technology or application

of AI that didn't exist when I woke up

this morning. That creates probably

another paradigm shift in my brain.

Also, you know, I people have different

opinions of Elon Musk and they're

they're entitled to their own opinion,

but the other day, only a couple of days

ago, he did a tweet where he said, "At

times, AI existential dread is

overwhelming." And on the same day, he

tweeted, "I resisted AI for too long,

living in denial. Now it is game on."

And he tagged his AI companies. I don't

know what to make of I don't know what

to make of those tweets. I don't know.

And you know, I

I try really hard to figure out if

someone like Sam Wman has the best

interests of society at heart. No.

No.

Or if these people are just like

I'm saying that publicly. No.

As a matter of fact, so I know Sundur

Pachai. I work CEO of Alphabet, Google's

parent company. an amazing human being

on in all honesty. I know Dennis Hassab

is amazing human being. Okay. Uh you

know these are are ethical incredible uh

humans at heart. They have no choice.

Uh Sund by law

is uh demanded to take care of his his

shareholder value. That's that is his job.

job.

But Sund you said you know him. You used

to work at Google.

Yeah. He's not going to do anything that

he thinks is going to harm humanity.

But if if he does not continue to

advance AI, that by definition uh uh uh

contradicts his responsibility as the

CEO of a publicly traded company, he is

liable by law to continue to advance the

agenda. There's absolutely no doubt

about it. Now, so but but he's a good

person at heart. Deis is a good person

at heart. So they're trying so hard to

make it safe. Okay? As much as they can.

Reality however is the the the disruptor

the altman as a brand doesn't care that much.

much.

How do you know that?

In reality the disruptor is someone that

comes in with the objective of I don't

like the status quo. I have a different

approach. And that different approach if

you just look at the story was we are a

nonforprofit that is funded mostly by

Elon Musk money. It's not entirely by

Elon Musk money. So context for people

that might not understand Open AI. The

reason I always give context is funnily

enough I I think I told you this last

time. I went to a prison where they play

the D of CEO.

No way.

So they play the D of CO and I think

it's 50 prisons in the UK to young offenders

offenders

and no violence there.

Well, I don't know. I can't I can't I

can't tell you whether violence has gone

up or down. But I was in the cell with

one of the prisoners, a young a young

black guy, and I was in his cell for for

a little while. I was reading through

his business plan, etc. And I said, "You

know what? You need to listen to this

conversation that I did with Mo Gordat."

So I he has a little screen in his cell.

So I pulled it up, you know, our first

conversation. I said, "You should listen

to that one." And he said to me, he

said, "I can't listen to that one cuz

you guys use big words."

So ever since that day, which was about

I noticed that about days four years

ago, sorry.

I've always whenever I hear a big word,

I think about this kid. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I say like give context. So even

with the you're about to explain what

Open AI is, I know he won't know what

Open AI's origin story was. That's why I'm

I'm

I think that's a wonderful practice in

general. By the way, even, you know,

being a non native English speaker,

you'll be amazed how often a word is

said to me and I I'm like, yeah, don't

know what that means.

So, like I've actually never said this

publicly before, but I now see it as my

responsibility to be to to keep the draw

the drawbridge

to accessibility of these conversations

down for him. So, whenever I whenever

there's a word that at some point in my

life I didn't know what it meant,

I will go back. I was like, what does

that mean? I think that I've noticed

that in the you know more and more in

your podcast and I really appreciate and

we also show it on the screen sometimes.

I I think that's wonderful. I mean the

the the origin story of open AI is as

the name suggests it's open source. It's

for the public good. It was an in you

know intended in Elon Musk's words to

save the world from the dangers of AI

right so they were doing research on

that and then you know there was the

disagreement between Sam Alman and and

Elon somehow Elon ends up being out of

uh of uh of open AI. I think there was a

moment in time where he tried to take it

back and you know the board rejected it

or some something like that. most of the

uh top um safety engineers, the top

technical teams in open AI left in 2023

2024 openly saying we're not concerned

with safety anymore. It moves from being

a nonforprofit to being one of the most

valued companies in the world. There are

billions of dollars at stake, right? And

if you if you tell me that Sam Altman is

out there trying to help humanity, let's

let's suggest to him and say, "Hey, do

you want to do that for free? We'll pay

you a very good salary, but you don't

have stocks in this. Saving humanity

doesn't come at the billion dollar

valuation or of course now tens of

billions or hundreds of billions." And

and and see truly that is when you know

that someone is doing it for the good of

humanity. Now the the capitalist system

we've built is not built for the good of

humanity. It's built for the good of the capitalist.

capitalist.

Well, he might say that releasing the

model publicly, open sourcing it is too risky

risky

because then bad actors around the world

would have access to that technology. So

he might say that closing open AI in

terms of not making it publicly viewable

is the right thing to do for safety. We

go back to gullible cheer leaders,

right? One of the interesting tricks is

of lying in our world is everyone will

say what helps their agenda. Follow the

money. Okay, you follow the money and

you find that you know at a point in

time Samman himself was saying it's open

AI. Okay, my benefit at the time is to

give it to the world so that the world

looks at it. They know the code if there

is if there are any bugs and so on. True

statement. Also a true statement is if I

put it out there in the world, a

criminal might take that model and build

something that's against humanity as a

result. Also true statement. Capitalists

will choose which one of the truths to

say, right? Based on which part of the

agenda, which part of their life today

they want to serve, right? Someone will

say, uh, you know, do I do you want me

to be controversial?

Let's not go there. But if we go back to

war, I'll give you 400 slogans.

400 slogans that we all hear that change

based on the day and the army and the

location and the they're all slogans.

None of them is true. You want to know

the truth. You follow the money, not

what the person is saying, but ask

yourself why is the person saying that?

What's in it for the person speaking?

And what do you think's in it for Chachi

Samman? hundreds of billions of dollars

of of of valuation.

And do you think it's that power?

The ego of being the person that

invented AGI, the position of power that

this gives you, the meetings with all of

the heads of states, the admiration that

gets it, it is intoxicating 100%

100% 100%.

100%.

Okay. And and the real question, this is

a question I ask everyone. Did you see

you didn't you're every time I ask you

you say you didn't. Did you see the

movie Elysium?

No. You'd be surprised how little movie

watching I do. You'd be shocked.

There are some movies that are very

interesting. I use them to to create an

emotional attachment to a story that you

haven't seen yet because you may have

seen it in a movie. Okay. Elissium is a

is a society where the elites are living

on the moon. Okay. They don't need

peasants to do the work anymore and

everyone else is living down here. Okay.

You have to imagine that if again game

theory you have to im you know picture

something to infinity to its extreme and

see where it goes and the extreme of a

world where all manufactured is done

manufacturing is done by machines

where all decisions are made by machines

and those machines are owned by a few

is not an economy similar to the to

today to the to today's economy

that today's economy is an economy of

consumerism and and product and

production. You know, it's the it's the

in in alive I call it the invention of

more. The invention of more is that post

World War II as the factories were

rolling out things and prosperity was

happening everywhere in America. There

was a time where every family had enough

of everything.

But for the capitalist to continue to be

profitable, they needed to convince you

that what you had was not enough. either

by making it obsolete like fashion or

like you know a new shape of a car or

whatever or by convincing you that there

are more things in life that you need so

that you become complete without those

things you don't and and that invention

of more gets us to where we are today an

economy that's based on production

consumed and if you look at the US

economy today 62% of the US economy GDP

is consumption it's not production okay

Now, this requires that the consumers

have enough purchasing power to to buy

what is produced. And I believe that

this will be an economy that will take

us hopefully in the next 10, 15, 20

years and forever. But that's not

guaranteed. Why? Because on one side if

UBI replaces purchasing power. So if

people have to get an income from the

government which is basically taxes

collected from those using AI and robots

to to make things

the then the the mindset of capitalism

labor arbitrage means those people are

not producing anything and they're

costing me money. Why don't we pay them

less and less and maybe even not pay

them at all? And that becomes illissium

where you basically say, you know, we

sit somewhere protected from everyone.

We have the machines do all of our work

and those need to worry about

themselves. We're not going to pay them

UBI anymore, right? And and you have to

imagine this idea of UBI assumes this

very democratic caring society.

UBI in itself is communism.

Think of the ideology between at least

socialism. The ideology of giving

everyone what they need. That's not the capitalist

capitalist

democratic society that the west

advocates. So those transitions are

massive in magnitude.

And for those transitions to happen, I

believe the right thing to do when the

cost of producing everything is almost

zero because of AI and robots.

because the cost of harvesting energy

should actually tend to zero once we get

more intelligent to harvest the energy

out of thin air. Then a possible

scenario and and I believe a scenario

that AI will eventually do in the utopia

is yeah anyone can get anything they

want. Don't over consume. We're not

going to abuse the the planet resources

but it costs nothing. So like the old

days where we were hunter gatherers, you

would, you know, forge for some berries

and you'll find them ready in in nature.

Okay, we can in 10 years time, 12 years

time build a society where you can forge

for an iPhone in nature. It will be made

out of thin air. Nanopysics will allow

you to do that. Okay? But the challenge,

believe it or not, is not tech. The

challenge is a mindset. Because the

elite, why would they give you that for

free? Okay. And the system would morph

into, no, no, hold on. We will make more

money. We will be bigger capitalists. We

will feed our ego and hunger for power

more and more. And for them, give them

UBI and then 3 weeks later give them

less UBI.

Aren't there going to be lots of new

jobs created though? Because when we

think about the other revolutions over

time, whether it was the industrial

revolution or other sort of big

technological revolutions,

in the moment we forecasted that

everyone was going to lose their jobs,

but we couldn't see all the new jobs

that were being created

because the the the machines

replaced the human strength at a point

in time. And very few places in the west

today will have a worker carry things on

their back and carry it upstairs. The

machine does that work. Correct. Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh similarly

AI is going to replace the brain of a

human. And when the west in its

interesting uh virtual colonies that I

call it uh basically outsourced all

labor to the to the developing nations.

What the West publicly said at the time

is we're we're going to be a services

economy. We we're we're not interested

in making things and stitching things

and so on. Let the Indians and Chinese

and you know Bengali and Vietnamese do

that. We're going to do more refined

jobs. Knowledge workers. We're going to

call them. Knowledge workers are people

who work with information and click on a

keyboard and move a mouse and you know

sit in meetings and all we produce in

the western societies is what words

right or designs maybe sometimes but

everything we produce can be produced by

So if I give you an AI tomorrow h where

I give you a piece of land, I give the

AI a piece of land and I say here are

the parameters of my land. Here is its

location on Google maps. Design an

architecturally sound villa for me. I

care about a lot of light and I need

three bedrooms. I want my bathrooms to

be in white marble, whatever. And the AI

produces it like that. How often will

you go to an to an architect and say

right so what will the architect do the

best of the best of the architects will

either use AI to produce that or you

will consult with them and say hey you

know I've seen this and they'll say it's

really pretty but it wouldn't feel right

for the person that you are yeah those

jobs will remain but how many of them

will remain

how how often do you think uh how many

more years. Do you think I will be able

to create a book that is smarter than AI?

Not many. I will still be able to

connect to a human. You're not going to

hug an AI when you meet them like you

hug me, right? But that's not enough of

a job.

So why do I say that? Remember I asked

you at the beginning of the podcast to

remind me of solutions. Why do I say

that? Because there are ideological

shifts and and concrete actions that

need to be taken by governments today

rather than waiting until COVID is

already everywhere and then locking

everyone down. Governments could have

reacted before the first patient or at

least at patient zero or at least at

patient 50. They didn't. H what I'm

trying to say is there is no doubt that

lots of jobs will be lost. There's no

doubt that there will be sectors of

society where 10 20 30 40 50% of all

developers, all software uh you know all

graphic designers, all um uh uh u online

marketers, all all all assistances

are going to be out of a job. So are we

prepared as a society to do that? Can we

tell our governments there is an

ideological shift? This is very close to

social socialism and and communism.

Okay. And are we ready from a budget

point of view instead of spending a a

trillion dollars a year on on arms and

and explosives and you know autonomous

weapons that will oppress people because

we can't feed them? Can we please shift

that? I did those numbers. Huh. Uh again

I I go back to military spending because

it's all around us. 2.71 trillion. 2.4

to2.7 is the estimate of 2024. how much

money we're spending on military

on Yeah. on military equipment on things

that we're going to explode into smoke

and death. Extreme poverty worldwide.

Extreme poverty is people that are below

the poverty line. Extreme poverty

everywhere in the world could end for 10

to 12% of that budget. So if we replace

our military spending 10% of that to go

to people who are in extreme poverty,

nobody will be poor in the world. Okay.

You can end uh world hunger for less

than 4%. Nobody would be hungry in the

world. You know, if you take uh again 10

to 12% universal healthcare, every human

being on the planet would have free

healthcare for 10 to 12% on what we're

spending on war. Now, why why do I say

this when we're talking about AI?

Because that's a simple decision. If we

stop fighting

because money itself does not have the

same meaning anymore because the

economics of money is going to change

because the entire meaning of capitalism

is ending because there is no more need

for labor arbitrage because AI is doing everything

everything

just with the $2.4 trillion we save in

explosives every year in arms and

weapons just for that universal

healthcare and extreme poverty. You

could actually one of the calculations

is you could end climate or combat

climate climate change meaningfully for

100% of the military budget.

But I I'm not even sure it's really

about the money. I think money is a

measurement stick of power. Right.

Exactly. It's printed on demand.

So even in a world where we have super

intelligence and money is no longer a problem.

problem. Correct.

Correct.

I still think

power is going to be

insatiable for so many people. So there

will still be war because you know

there will be in my view

the strongest I want the strongest AI. I

don't want my

and I don't and I don't want you know

what Harry Henry Kissinger called them

the eaters.

The eaters. Yeah.

Yeah.

Brutal as that sounds.

What is that? The people at the bottom

of the socioeconomic

that don't produce but consume.

So if you had a Henry Kissinger at the

at the helm and we have so many of them,

what would they think like why why

prominent military figure in the US

history? Uh you know what why would we

feed 350 million Americans America will

think but more interestingly why do we

even care about Bangladesh anymore if we

can't make our textiles there or we don't want to make our textile there. Do

don't want to make our textile there. Do you you know I imagine throughout human

you you know I imagine throughout human history if we had podcasts conversations

history if we had podcasts conversations would would have been warning of a

would would have been warning of a dystopia around the corner. You know

dystopia around the corner. You know when they heard of technology and the

when they heard of technology and the internet they would have said oh we're

internet they would have said oh we're finished and when the the tractor came

finished and when the the tractor came along they would have said oh god we're

along they would have said oh god we're finished because we're not going to be

finished because we're not going to be able to farm anymore. So is this not

able to farm anymore. So is this not just another one of those moments where

just another one of those moments where we couldn't see around the corner so we

we couldn't see around the corner so we we forecasted unfortunate things. You

we forecasted unfortunate things. You could be. I I am I'm begging that I'm

could be. I I am I'm begging that I'm wrong. Okay. I'm just asking if there

wrong. Okay. I'm just asking if there are scenarios that you think that can

are scenarios that you think that can provide that. You know, uh uh Mustafa

provide that. You know, uh uh Mustafa Sulleman in in uh you hosted him here. I

Sulleman in in uh you hosted him here. I did. Yeah. He was in the coming wave.

did. Yeah. He was in the coming wave. Yeah.

Yeah. And he speaks about uh about pessimism

And he speaks about uh about pessimism aversion.

aversion. Okay. that all of us people who are

Okay. that all of us people who are supposed to be in technology and

supposed to be in technology and business and so on, we're always

business and so on, we're always supposed to, you know, stand on stage

supposed to, you know, stand on stage and say the future's going to be

and say the future's going to be amazing. You know, this technology I'm

amazing. You know, this technology I'm building is going to make everything

building is going to make everything better. One of my posts in life was

better. One of my posts in life was called the broken promises. How often

called the broken promises. How often did that happen?

did that happen? Okay. How often did social media connect

Okay. How often did social media connect us? And how many and how often did it

us? And how many and how often did it make us more lonely? How how often did

make us more lonely? How how often did mobile phones make us work less? That

mobile phones make us work less? That was the promise. That was the promise.

was the promise. That was the promise. The promise. The early ads of Nokia were

The promise. The early ads of Nokia were people at parties. Is that your

people at parties. Is that your experience of mobile phones? And and I

experience of mobile phones? And and I think the whole idea is we should hope

think the whole idea is we should hope there will be other roles for humanity.

there will be other roles for humanity. By the way, those roles would resemble

By the way, those roles would resemble the times where we were hunter

the times where we were hunter gatherers, just a lot more technology

gatherers, just a lot more technology and a lot more safety.

and a lot more safety. Okay. So, this is this sounds good.

Okay. So, this is this sounds good. Yeah,

Yeah, this is exciting. So, I'm gonna I'm

this is exciting. So, I'm gonna I'm gonna get to go outside more, be with my

gonna get to go outside more, be with my friends more,

friends more, 100%.

100%. Fantastic.

Fantastic. And do absolutely nothing.

And do absolutely nothing. Well, that doesn't sound fantastic.

Well, that doesn't sound fantastic. No, it does. Do be forced to do

No, it does. Do be forced to do absolutely nothing. For some people,

absolutely nothing. For some people, it's amazing. For you and I, we're going

it's amazing. For you and I, we're going to find the little carpentry project and

to find the little carpentry project and just do something.

just do something. Speak for yourself. I'm still People are

Speak for yourself. I'm still People are still going to tune in.

still going to tune in. Okay.

Okay. Correct. Yeah. But what? And people are

Correct. Yeah. But what? And people are going to to tune in.

going to to tune in. Do you think they will? I'm not I'm not

Do you think they will? I'm not I'm not I'm not convinced they will. And for for

I'm not convinced they will. And for for as long

as long will you guys tune in? Are you guys

will you guys tune in? Are you guys still going to tune in?

still going to tune in? I can let them answer. I believe for as

I can let them answer. I believe for as long as you make their life enriched,

long as you make their life enriched, but can an AI do that better

but can an AI do that better without the human connection?

without the human connection? Comment below. Are you going to listen

Comment below. Are you going to listen to an AI or the Davosio? Let me know in

to an AI or the Davosio? Let me know in the comment section below.

the comment section below. Remember, as incredibly intelligent as

Remember, as incredibly intelligent as you are, Steve, uh there will be a

you are, Steve, uh there will be a moment in time where you're going to

moment in time where you're going to sound really dumb compared to an AI. and

sound really dumb compared to an AI. and and and I will sound completely dumb.

and and I will sound completely dumb. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. The the depth the depth of analysis

The the depth the depth of analysis and and gold nuggets. I mean, can you

and and gold nuggets. I mean, can you imagine two super intelligences deciding

imagine two super intelligences deciding to get together and explain um string

to get together and explain um string theory to us?

theory to us? They'll do better than any physic

They'll do better than any physic physicist in the world because they

physicist in the world because they possess the physics knowledge and they

possess the physics knowledge and they also pro possess social and language

also pro possess social and language knowledge that most deep physicists

knowledge that most deep physicists don't. I think B2B marketeteers keep

don't. I think B2B marketeteers keep making this mistake. They're chasing

making this mistake. They're chasing volume instead of quality. And when you

volume instead of quality. And when you try to be seen by more people instead of

try to be seen by more people instead of the right people, all you're doing is

the right people, all you're doing is making noise. But that noise rarely

making noise. But that noise rarely shifts the needle and it's often quite

shifts the needle and it's often quite expensive. And I know as there was the

expensive. And I know as there was the time in my career where I kept making

time in my career where I kept making this mistake that many of you will be

this mistake that many of you will be making it too. Eventually I started

making it too. Eventually I started posting ads on our show sponsors

posting ads on our show sponsors platform LinkedIn. And that's when

platform LinkedIn. And that's when things started to change. I put that

things started to change. I put that change down to a few critical things.

change down to a few critical things. One of them being that LinkedIn was then

One of them being that LinkedIn was then and still is today the platform where

and still is today the platform where decision makers go to not only to think

decision makers go to not only to think and learn but also to buy. And when you

and learn but also to buy. And when you market your business there, you're

market your business there, you're putting it right in front of people who

putting it right in front of people who actually have the power to say yes. and

actually have the power to say yes. and you can target them by job title,

you can target them by job title, industry, and company size. It's simply

industry, and company size. It's simply a sharper way to spend your marketing

a sharper way to spend your marketing budget. And if you haven't tried it, how

budget. And if you haven't tried it, how about this? Give LinkedIn ads a try, and

about this? Give LinkedIn ads a try, and I'm going to give you a $100 ad credit

I'm going to give you a $100 ad credit to get you started. If you visit

to get you started. If you visit linkedin.com/diary,

linkedin.com/diary, you can claim that right now. That's

you can claim that right now. That's linkedin.com/diary.

linkedin.com/diary. I've I've really gone back and forward

I've I've really gone back and forward on this idea that even in podcasting

on this idea that even in podcasting that all the podcasts will be AI

that all the podcasts will be AI podcasts or I've gone back and forward

podcasts or I've gone back and forward on it and and where I landed at the end

on it and and where I landed at the end of the day was that there'll still be a

of the day was that there'll still be a category of media where you do want

category of media where you do want lived experience on something

lived experience on something 100%.

100%. For example, like you want to know how

For example, like you want to know how the person that you follow and admire

the person that you follow and admire dealt with their divorce.

dealt with their divorce. Yeah. Or or how they're struggling with

Yeah. Or or how they're struggling with AI,

AI, for example. Yeah. Exactly. But I but I

for example. Yeah. Exactly. But I but I think things like news, there are there

think things like news, there are there are certain situations where just like

are certain situations where just like straight news and straight facts and

straight news and straight facts and maybe a walk through history may be

maybe a walk through history may be eroded away by AIS. But even in those

eroded away by AIS. But even in those scenarios, you there's something about

scenarios, you there's something about personality. And again, I I hesitate

personality. And again, I I hesitate here because I question myself. I'm not

here because I question myself. I'm not in the camp of people that are romantic,

in the camp of people that are romantic, by the way. I'm like I'm trying to be as

by the way. I'm like I'm trying to be as as orientated towards whatever is true,

as orientated towards whatever is true, even if it's against my interests. And I

even if it's against my interests. And I hope people understand that about me.

hope people understand that about me. like um cuz even in my companies we

like um cuz even in my companies we experiment with like disrupting me with

experiment with like disrupting me with AI and some people will be aware of

AI and some people will be aware of those experiments

those experiments because there will be a mix of all there

because there will be a mix of all there you can't imagine that the world will be

you can't imagine that the world will be completely just AI and completely just

completely just AI and completely just podcasters you know you'll see a mix of

podcasters you know you'll see a mix of of both you'll see things that they do

of both you'll see things that they do better things that we do better

better things that we do better the the the message I'm trying to say is

the the the message I'm trying to say is we need to prep for that

we need to prep for that we need to be ready for that we need to

we need to be ready for that we need to be ready by you know talking to our

be ready by you know talking to our governments and saying hey it looks like

governments and saying hey it looks like I'm a a parallegal and it looks like all

I'm a a parallegal and it looks like all parallegals are going to be, you know,

parallegals are going to be, you know, financial researchers or analysts or

financial researchers or analysts or graphic designers or, you know, call

graphic designers or, you know, call center agents. It looks like half of

center agents. It looks like half of those jobs are being replaced already.

those jobs are being replaced already. You know who Jeffrey Hinton is?

You know who Jeffrey Hinton is? Oh, Jeffrey. I I had him on the

Oh, Jeffrey. I I had him on the documentary as well. I love Jeffrey.

documentary as well. I love Jeffrey. Jeffrey Hinton told me

Jeffrey Hinton told me trained to be a plumber.

trained to be a plumber. Really?

Really? Yeah. 100% for a while.

Yeah. 100% for a while. And I I thought he was joking. 100%.

And I I thought he was joking. 100%. So I asked him again and he he looked me

So I asked him again and he he looked me dead in the eye and told me that I I

dead in the eye and told me that I I should train to be a plumber.

should train to be a plumber. 100%. So so so uh it's funny uh machines

100%. So so so uh it's funny uh machines replaced labor but we still had blue

replaced labor but we still had blue collar. Then uh you know the refined

collar. Then uh you know the refined jobs became white collar information

jobs became white collar information workers.

workers. What's the refined jobs?

What's the refined jobs? You know you don't have to really carry

You know you don't have to really carry heavy stuff or deal with physical work.

heavy stuff or deal with physical work. You know you sit in an in an office and

You know you sit in an in an office and sit in meetings all day and blabber, you

sit in meetings all day and blabber, you know, useless [ __ ] then that's your

know, useless [ __ ] then that's your job. Okay? And those jobs, funny enough,

job. Okay? And those jobs, funny enough, in the reverse of that, because robotics

in the reverse of that, because robotics are not ready yet. Okay. And I believe

are not ready yet. Okay. And I believe they're not ready because of a

they're not ready because of a stubbornness on the on the robotics

stubbornness on the on the robotics community around making them humanoids.

community around making them humanoids. Mhm.

Mhm. Okay. Because it takes so much to

Okay. Because it takes so much to perfect a human like action at proper

perfect a human like action at proper speed. You could, you know, have many

speed. You could, you know, have many more robots that don't look like a human

more robots that don't look like a human just like a self-driving car in

just like a self-driving car in California. Okay, that that does already

California. Okay, that that does already replace drivers and and you know but but

replace drivers and and you know but but they're delayed. So the robotic the the

they're delayed. So the robotic the the replacement of physical manual labor is

replacement of physical manual labor is going to take four to five years before

going to take four to five years before it's possible at you know at at the

it's possible at you know at at the quality of the AI replacing mental labor

quality of the AI replacing mental labor now and when that happens it's going to

now and when that happens it's going to take a long cycle to manufacture enough

take a long cycle to manufacture enough robots so that they replace all of those

robots so that they replace all of those jobs. that cycle will take longer. Blue

jobs. that cycle will take longer. Blue collar will stay longer.

collar will stay longer. So, I should move into blue collar and

So, I should move into blue collar and shut down my office.

shut down my office. I think you're you're not the problem.

I think you're you're not the problem. Okay, good.

Okay, good. Let's put put it this way. There are

Let's put put it this way. There are many people that we should care about

many people that we should care about that are a simple travel agent or an

that are a simple travel agent or an assistant

assistant that will see if not replacement a

that will see if not replacement a reduction in the number of pings they're

reduction in the number of pings they're getting. Simple as that.

And someone in, you know, ministries of labor around the world needs to sit down

labor around the world needs to sit down and say, "What are we going to do about

and say, "What are we going to do about that? What if all taxi drivers and Uber

that? What if all taxi drivers and Uber drivers in uh in California get replaced

drivers in uh in California get replaced by self-driving cars? Should we start

by self-driving cars? Should we start thinking about that now, noticing that

thinking about that now, noticing that that trajectory makes it look like a

that trajectory makes it look like a possibility?" I'm going to go back to

possibility?" I'm going to go back to this argument which is what a lot of

this argument which is what a lot of people will be shouting. Yes, but there

people will be shouting. Yes, but there will be new jobs or

will be new jobs or and I as I said other than human

and I as I said other than human connection jobs, name me one.

connection jobs, name me one. So I I've got three assistants, right?

So I I've got three assistants, right? Sophie, Liam B. And okay, in the near

Sophie, Liam B. And okay, in the near term there might be, you know, with AI

term there might be, you know, with AI agents, I might not need them to help me

agents, I might not need them to help me book flights anymore. or I might not

book flights anymore. or I might not need them to help do scheduling anymore.

need them to help do scheduling anymore. Or even I've been messing around with

Or even I've been messing around with this new AI tool that my friend built

this new AI tool that my friend built and you basically when me and you trying

and you basically when me and you trying to schedule something like this today, I

to schedule something like this today, I just copy the AI in and it looks at your

just copy the AI in and it looks at your calendar looks at mine and schedules it

calendar looks at mine and schedules it for for us. So there might not be

for for us. So there might not be scheduling needs, but my dog is sick at

scheduling needs, but my dog is sick at the moment. And as I left this morning,

the moment. And as I left this morning, I was like, damn, he's like really sick

I was like, damn, he's like really sick and I've taken him to the vet over and

and I've taken him to the vet over and over again. I really need someone to

over again. I really need someone to look after him and figure out what's

look after him and figure out what's wrong with him. So those kinds of

wrong with him. So those kinds of responsibilities of like care. I don't

responsibilities of like care. I don't disagree at all. Again, all

disagree at all. Again, all and and I I won't I'm not going to be I

and and I I won't I'm not going to be I don't know how to say this in a nice

don't know how to say this in a nice way, but my assistants will still have

way, but my assistants will still have their jobs, but I I as a CEO will be

their jobs, but I I as a CEO will be asking them to do a different type of

asking them to do a different type of work.

work. Correct. So, so, so this is the

Correct. So, so, so this is the calculation everyone needs to be aware

calculation everyone needs to be aware of that a lot of their current

of that a lot of their current responsibility, whoever you are, if

responsibility, whoever you are, if you're a parallegal, if you're whatever,

you're a parallegal, if you're whatever, will be handed over. So, so let me

will be handed over. So, so let me explain it even more accurately. There

explain it even more accurately. There will be two stages of our interactions

will be two stages of our interactions with the machines. One is what I call

with the machines. One is what I call the era of augmented intelligence. So,

the era of augmented intelligence. So, it's human intelligence augmented with

it's human intelligence augmented with AI doing the job. And then the following

AI doing the job. And then the following one is what I call the era of machine

one is what I call the era of machine mastery. The job is done completely by

mastery. The job is done completely by an AI without a human in the loop. Okay.

an AI without a human in the loop. Okay. So in the era of augmented intelligence,

So in the era of augmented intelligence, your assistances will augment themselves

your assistances will augment themselves with an AI to either be more productive.

with an AI to either be more productive. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Or interestingly to reduce the

Okay. Or interestingly to reduce the number of tasks that they need to do.

number of tasks that they need to do. Correct. Now the more the number of

Correct. Now the more the number of tasks get reduced, the more they'll have

tasks get reduced, the more they'll have the bandwidth and ability to do tasks

the bandwidth and ability to do tasks like take care of your dog, right? or

like take care of your dog, right? or tasks that you know basically is about

tasks that you know basically is about meeting your guests or whatever human

meeting your guests or whatever human connection.

connection. Yeah.

Yeah. Life connection

Life connection but do you think you need three for that

but do you think you need three for that or maybe now that some tasks have been

or maybe now that some tasks have been you know outsourced to AI will you need

you know outsourced to AI will you need two? You can easily calculate that from

two? You can easily calculate that from call center agents. So from call center

call center agents. So from call center agents they're not firing everyone but

agents they're not firing everyone but they're taking the first part of the

they're taking the first part of the funnel and giving it to an AI. So

funnel and giving it to an AI. So instead of having 2,000 agents in a in a

instead of having 2,000 agents in a in a call center, they can now do the job

call center, they can now do the job with 1,800. I'm just making that number

with 1,800. I'm just making that number up. H society needs to think about the

up. H society needs to think about the 200.

200. And you're telling me that they won't

And you're telling me that they won't move into other roles somewhere else.

move into other roles somewhere else. I am telling you I don't know what those

I am telling you I don't know what those roles are.

roles are. Well, I think we should all be

Well, I think we should all be musicians. We should all be authors. We

musicians. We should all be authors. We should all be artists. We should all be

should all be artists. We should all be entertainers. We should all be

entertainers. We should all be comedians. We should all these are roles

comedians. We should all these are roles that will remain.

that will remain. We should all be plumbers for the next 5

We should all be plumbers for the next 5 to 10 years. Fantastic. Okay. But even

to 10 years. Fantastic. Okay. But even that requires society to morph

that requires society to morph and societyy's not talking about it.

and societyy's not talking about it. Okay. I had this wonderful interview

Okay. I had this wonderful interview with friends of mine, Peter Dendez and

with friends of mine, Peter Dendez and and some of our friends and and they

and some of our friends and and they were saying, "Oh, you know, the American

were saying, "Oh, you know, the American people are resilient. They're going to

people are resilient. They're going to be entrepreneurs." I was like,

be entrepreneurs." I was like, seriously, you're expecting a truck

seriously, you're expecting a truck driver that will be replaced by an

driver that will be replaced by an autonomous truck to become an

autonomous truck to become an entrepreneur? Like, please put yourself

entrepreneur? Like, please put yourself in the shoes of real people,

in the shoes of real people, right? You expect a single mother who

right? You expect a single mother who has three jobs

And I'm not saying this is a dystopia. It's a dystopia if humanity manages it

It's a dystopia if humanity manages it badly. Why? Because this could be the

badly. Why? Because this could be the utopia itself where that single mother

utopia itself where that single mother does not need three jobs.

does not need three jobs. Okay? If we of if of our society was

Okay? If we of if of our society was just enough, that single mother should

just enough, that single mother should have never needed three jobs,

have never needed three jobs, right? But the problem is our capitalist

right? But the problem is our capitalist mindset is labor arbitrage. Is that I

mindset is labor arbitrage. Is that I don't care what she goes through.

don't care what she goes through. You know, if if you're if you're

You know, if if you're if you're generous in your assumption, you'll say

generous in your assumption, you'll say because, you know, of what I've been

because, you know, of what I've been given, I've been blessed. or if you're

given, I've been blessed. or if you're mean in your assumption, it's going to

mean in your assumption, it's going to be because she's an eater. I'm a a

be because she's an eater. I'm a a successful businessman. The world is

successful businessman. The world is supposed to be fair. I work hard. I make

supposed to be fair. I work hard. I make money. We don't care about them.

money. We don't care about them. Are we asking of ourselves here

Are we asking of ourselves here something that is not inherent in the

something that is not inherent in the human condition? What I mean by that is

human condition? What I mean by that is the reason why me and you are in this my

the reason why me and you are in this my office here. We're on the fourth or

office here. We're on the fourth or third floor of my office in central

third floor of my office in central London. big office, 25,000 square feet

London. big office, 25,000 square feet with lights and internet connections and

with lights and internet connections and Wi-Fi and modems and AI teams

Wi-Fi and modems and AI teams downstairs. The reason that all of this

downstairs. The reason that all of this exists is because something inherent in

exists is because something inherent in my ancestors meant that they built and

my ancestors meant that they built and accomplished and grew and that was like

accomplished and grew and that was like inherent in their DNA. There was

inherent in their DNA. There was something in their DNA that said we will

something in their DNA that said we will expand and conquer and accomplish. So

expand and conquer and accomplish. So that's they've passed that to us because

that's they've passed that to us because we're their offspring and that's why we

we're their offspring and that's why we find ourselves in these skyscrapers.

find ourselves in these skyscrapers. There is truth to that story. It's not

There is truth to that story. It's not your ancestors,

your ancestors, right?

right? What is it?

What is it? It's the media brainwashing you

It's the media brainwashing you really

really 100%.

100%. But if if you look back before times of

But if if you look back before times of media

media Mhm.

Mhm. the reason why homo sapiens were so

the reason why homo sapiens were so successful was because they were able to

successful was because they were able to dominate other tribes

dominate other tribes through banding together and

through banding together and communication. They conquered all these

communication. They conquered all these other these other um whatever came

other these other um whatever came before homo sapiens.

before homo sapiens. Yeah. So, so the the reason humans were

Yeah. So, so the the reason humans were successful in my view is because they

successful in my view is because they could form a tribe to start. It's not

could form a tribe to start. It's not because of our intelligence. I always

because of our intelligence. I always joke and say Einstein would be eaten in

joke and say Einstein would be eaten in the jungle in 2 minutes.

the jungle in 2 minutes. Right? You know, the reason why we

Right? You know, the reason why we succeeded is because Einstein could

succeeded is because Einstein could partner with a a big guy that protected

partner with a a big guy that protected him while he was working on relativity

him while he was working on relativity in the jungle. Right? Now the the the

in the jungle. Right? Now the the the further than that. So so you have to

further than that. So so you have to assume that life is a very funny game

assume that life is a very funny game because it provides

because it provides and then it it deprivives and then it

and then it it deprivives and then it provides and then it deprivives. And for

provides and then it deprivives. And for some of us in that stage of deprivation

some of us in that stage of deprivation we try to say okay let's take the other

we try to say okay let's take the other guys you know let's just go to the other

guys you know let's just go to the other tribe take what they have or for some of

tribe take what they have or for some of us unfortunately we tend to believe okay

us unfortunately we tend to believe okay you know what I'm powerful uh f the rest

you know what I'm powerful uh f the rest of you I'm just going to be the boss now

of you I'm just going to be the boss now it's interesting that you

it's interesting that you you know position this as the condition

you know position this as the condition of humanity if you really look at the

of humanity if you really look at the majority of humans. What do the majority

majority of humans. What do the majority of humans want?

of humans want? Be honest. They want to hug their kids.

Be honest. They want to hug their kids. They want a good meal. Want good sex.

They want a good meal. Want good sex. They want love. They want, you know, to

They want love. They want, you know, to for most humans, don't measure on you

for most humans, don't measure on you and I. Okay? Don't measure by this

and I. Okay? Don't measure by this foolish person that's dedicated the rest

foolish person that's dedicated the rest of his life to to try and warn the world

of his life to to try and warn the world around AI or, you know, solve uh love

around AI or, you know, solve uh love and relationships. That's that's crazy.

and relationships. That's that's crazy. That's I and I will tell you openly and

That's I and I will tell you openly and you met Hannah, my wonderful wife. It's

you met Hannah, my wonderful wife. It's the biggest title of this year for me is

the biggest title of this year for me is which of that am I actually responsible

which of that am I actually responsible for? Which of that should I do without

for? Which of that should I do without the sense of responsibility? Which of

the sense of responsibility? Which of that should I do because I can? Which of

that should I do because I can? Which of I ignore completely? But the reality is

I ignore completely? But the reality is most humans, they just want to hug their

most humans, they just want to hug their loved ones. Okay? And if we could give

loved ones. Okay? And if we could give them that

them that without the uh you know the the need to

without the uh you know the the need to work 20 you know 60 hours a week they

work 20 you know 60 hours a week they would take that for sure. Okay. And you

would take that for sure. Okay. And you and I will think ah but life will be

and I will think ah but life will be very boring. To them life will be

very boring. To them life will be completely fulfilling. Go to Latin

completely fulfilling. Go to Latin America.

America. Go to Latin America and see the people

Go to Latin America and see the people that go work enough to earn enough to

that go work enough to earn enough to eat today and go dance for the whole

eat today and go dance for the whole night. Go to Africa.

night. Go to Africa. where people are sitting literally on

where people are sitting literally on you know sidewalks in the street and and

you know sidewalks in the street and and you know completely full of laughter and

you know completely full of laughter and joy. We we were lied to the the gullible

joy. We we were lied to the the gullible majority the cheerleaders. We were lied

majority the cheerleaders. We were lied to to to believe that we need to fit as

to to to believe that we need to fit as another gear in that system. But if that

another gear in that system. But if that system didn't exist nobody none of us

system didn't exist nobody none of us will go wake up in the morning and go

will go wake up in the morning and go like oh I want to create it. Totally

like oh I want to create it. Totally not. I mean,

not. I mean, you've touched on it many times today.

you've touched on it many times today. We don't need, you know, most people

We don't need, you know, most people that build those things don't need the

that build those things don't need the money.

money. So, why do they do it though? Because

So, why do they do it though? Because homo sapiens were incredible

homo sapiens were incredible competitors. They outco competed other

competitors. They outco competed other human species effectively. So, I'm what

human species effectively. So, I'm what I'm saying is is is that competition not

I'm saying is is is that competition not inherent in our in our wiring? and and

inherent in our in our wiring? and and therefore are we are we is it wishful

therefore are we are we is it wishful thinking to think that we could

thinking to think that we could potentially pause and say we we okay

potentially pause and say we we okay this is it we have enough now and we're

this is it we have enough now and we're going to

going to focus on just enjoying in my work I call

focus on just enjoying in my work I call that the map mad spectrum okay mut

that the map mad spectrum okay mut mutually assured prosperity versus

mutually assured prosperity versus mutually assured destruction destruction

mutually assured destruction destruction okay and you really have to start

okay and you really have to start thinking about about this because in my

thinking about about this because in my mind what we have is the potential for

mind what we have is the potential for everyone. I mean you and I today have a

everyone. I mean you and I today have a better life than the queen of England

better life than the queen of England 100 years ago. Correct? Everybody knows

100 years ago. Correct? Everybody knows that.

that. Uh and yet that quality of life is not

Uh and yet that quality of life is not good enough.

good enough. The truth is like just like you walk

The truth is like just like you walk into a an electronic shop and there are

into a an electronic shop and there are 60 TVs and you look at them and you go

60 TVs and you look at them and you go like this one is better than that one.

like this one is better than that one. Right? But in reality, if you take any

Right? But in reality, if you take any of them home, it's superior quality to

of them home, it's superior quality to anything that you'll ever need. More

anything that you'll ever need. More than anything you you'll ever need. That

than anything you you'll ever need. That that's the truth of our life today. The

that's the truth of our life today. The truth of our life today is that there

truth of our life today is that there isn't much more missing.

isn't much more missing. No.

No. Okay. And and when when you know

Okay. And and when when you know Californians tell us, "Oh, but AI is

Californians tell us, "Oh, but AI is going to increase productivity and solve

going to increase productivity and solve this." And nobody asked you for that.

this." And nobody asked you for that. Honestly, I never elected you to decide

Honestly, I never elected you to decide on my behalf that, you know, getting a

on my behalf that, you know, getting a machine to answer me on a call center is

machine to answer me on a call center is better for me. I really didn't. Okay?

better for me. I really didn't. Okay? And and because those unelected

And and because those unelected individuals are making all the

individuals are making all the decisions, they're selling those

decisions, they're selling those decisions to us through what media.

decisions to us through what media. Okay? All lies from A to Z. None of it

Okay? All lies from A to Z. None of it is what you need.

is what you need. And and interestingly, you know me, I I

And and interestingly, you know me, I I this year I failed. Unfortunately, I

this year I failed. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do it. But I normally

won't be able to do it. But I normally do a 40 days silent retreat in nature.

do a 40 days silent retreat in nature. Okay? And you know what? Even as I go to

Okay? And you know what? Even as I go to those nature places, I'm so well trained

those nature places, I'm so well trained that unless I have a a waitro nearby,

that unless I have a a waitro nearby, I'm not able to like I I'm I'm in

I'm not able to like I I'm I'm in nature, but I need to be able to drive

nature, but I need to be able to drive 20 minutes to get my rice cakes. Like

20 minutes to get my rice cakes. Like what? What? who was taught me that this

what? What? who was taught me that this is the way to live. All of the media

is the way to live. All of the media around me, all of the of the of the

around me, all of the of the of the messages that I get all the time, try to

messages that I get all the time, try to sit back and say, "What if life had

sit back and say, "What if life had everything?

everything? What if I had everything I needed? I

What if I had everything I needed? I could read. I could uh, you know, do my

could read. I could uh, you know, do my handcrafts and hobbies. I could, you

handcrafts and hobbies. I could, you know, fix my, you know, restore classic

know, fix my, you know, restore classic cars. Not because I need the money, but

cars. Not because I need the money, but because it's just a beautiful hobby. I

because it's just a beautiful hobby. I could, you know, uh, build AIS to help

could, you know, uh, build AIS to help people with their long-term committed

people with their long-term committed relationships, but really price it for

relationships, but really price it for free. What if

free. What if What if would you still insist on making

What if would you still insist on making money?

money? I think no. I think a few of us will

I think no. I think a few of us will still and they will still crush the rest

still and they will still crush the rest of us and hopefully soon the AI will

of us and hopefully soon the AI will crush them.

crush them. Right? That is the problem with your

Right? That is the problem with your world today. I will tell you hands down

world today. I will tell you hands down the problem with with our world today is

the problem with with our world today is the A in face rips.

the A in face rips. It's the A in face RIP. It's it's

It's the A in face RIP. It's it's accountability. The problem with our

accountability. The problem with our world today, as I said, the top is lying

world today, as I said, the top is lying all the time. The bottom is gullible

all the time. The bottom is gullible cheerleaders and there is no

cheerleaders and there is no accountability. You cannot hold anyone

accountability. You cannot hold anyone in our world accountable today. Okay?

in our world accountable today. Okay? You cannot hold someone that develops an

You cannot hold someone that develops an AI that has the power to completely flip

AI that has the power to completely flip our world upside down. You cannot hold

our world upside down. You cannot hold them accountable and say why did you do

them accountable and say why did you do this? You cannot hold them accountable

this? You cannot hold them accountable and tell them to stop doing this. You

and tell them to stop doing this. You look at the world the wars around the

look at the world the wars around the world. Million hundreds of thousands of

world. Million hundreds of thousands of people are dying. Okay. And you know and

people are dying. Okay. And you know and international court of justice will say

international court of justice will say oh this is war crimes. You can't hold

oh this is war crimes. You can't hold anyone accountable. Okay. You have 51%

anyone accountable. Okay. You have 51% of the US today is saying stop that

of the US today is saying stop that 51% change their their their lawy their

51% change their their their lawy their view that that their money shouldn't be

view that that their money shouldn't be spent on wars abroad. Okay. You can't

spent on wars abroad. Okay. You can't hold anyone accountable. Trump can do

hold anyone accountable. Trump can do whatever he wants. He starts tariffs

whatever he wants. He starts tariffs which is against the the constitution of

which is against the the constitution of the US without consulting with the

the US without consulting with the Congress. You can't hold him

Congress. You can't hold him accountable. They say they're not going

accountable. They say they're not going to show the Epstein files. You can't

to show the Epstein files. You can't hold them accountable. It's quite

hold them accountable. It's quite interesting in in Arabic we have that

interesting in in Arabic we have that proverb that says the highest of your

proverb that says the highest of your horses you can go and ride. I'm not

horses you can go and ride. I'm not going to change my mind. Okay. And

going to change my mind. Okay. And that's truly

that's truly what does that mean?

what does that mean? So basically people in the in the old

So basically people in the in the old Arabia they would ride the horse to you

Arabia they would ride the horse to you know to exert their power if you want.

know to exert their power if you want. So go ride your highest horse. You're

So go ride your highest horse. You're not going to change my mind.

not going to change my mind. Oh okay.

Oh okay. Right. And and the truth is that's I

Right. And and the truth is that's I think that's what our politicians today

think that's what our politicians today have discovered. What our

have discovered. What our oligarchs have discovered what our uh

oligarchs have discovered what our uh tech oligarchs have discovered is that I

tech oligarchs have discovered is that I don't even need to worry about the

don't even need to worry about the public opinion anymore. Okay, at the

public opinion anymore. Okay, at the beginning I would have to say ah this is

beginning I would have to say ah this is for democracy and freedom and I have the

for democracy and freedom and I have the right to defend myself and you know all

right to defend myself and you know all of that crap and then eventually when

of that crap and then eventually when the world wakes up and says no no hold

the world wakes up and says no no hold on hold on you're going too far they go

on hold on you're going too far they go like yeah go ride your highest horse I

like yeah go ride your highest horse I don't care you can't change me there is

don't care you can't change me there is no constitution there is no ability for

no constitution there is no ability for any any citizen to do anything

any any citizen to do anything is it possible to have a society where

is it possible to have a society where like the one you describe where

like the one you describe where there isn't hierarchies because it

there isn't hierarchies because it appears to me that humans

appears to me that humans assemble hierarchies very very quickly

assemble hierarchies very very quickly very naturally and the minute you have a

very naturally and the minute you have a hierarchy you have many of the problems

hierarchy you have many of the problems that you've described where there's a

that you've described where there's a top and a bottom and the top have a lot

top and a bottom and the top have a lot of power and the bottom

of power and the bottom so so the mathematics mathematically is

so so the mathematics mathematically is actually quite interesting what I call

actually quite interesting what I call the uh the baseline relevance so so

the uh the baseline relevance so so think of it this way say the average

think of it this way say the average human is an IQ of 100.

human is an IQ of 100. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. I tend to believe that when I use

Okay. I tend to believe that when I use my AIS today,

my AIS today, I borrow around 50 to 80 IQ points. I

I borrow around 50 to 80 IQ points. I say that because I've worked with people

say that because I've worked with people that had 50 to 80 IQ points more than

that had 50 to 80 IQ points more than me. And I now can see that I can sort of

me. And I now can see that I can sort of stand my my place.

stand my my place. 50 50 IQ points, by the way, is enormous

50 50 IQ points, by the way, is enormous because IQ is exponential. So the the

because IQ is exponential. So the the last 50 are bigger than my entire IQ,

last 50 are bigger than my entire IQ, right?

right? If I borrow 50 IQ points on top of say

If I borrow 50 IQ points on top of say 100 that I have, that's 30%.

100 that I have, that's 30%. If I can borrow 100 IQ, that's 50%. That

If I can borrow 100 IQ, that's 50%. That that's so, you know, basically doubling

that's so, you know, basically doubling my intelligence. But if I can borrow

my intelligence. But if I can borrow 4,000 IQ points

4,000 IQ points in 3 years time, my IQ itself, my base

in 3 years time, my IQ itself, my base is irrelevant. Whether you are smarter

is irrelevant. Whether you are smarter than me by 20 or 30 or 50 which in our

than me by 20 or 30 or 50 which in our world today made a difference

world today made a difference in the future if we can all augment with

in the future if we can all augment with 4,000 I end up with 4,100 another ends

4,000 I end up with 4,100 another ends up with 400 4, you know 130 really

up with 400 4, you know 130 really doesn't make much difference. Okay. And

doesn't make much difference. Okay. And because of that the difference between

because of that the difference between all of humanity and the augmented

all of humanity and the augmented intelligence

intelligence is going to be irrelevant. So all of us

is going to be irrelevant. So all of us suddenly become equal and and this also

suddenly become equal and and this also happens economically. All of us become

happens economically. All of us become peasants.

peasants. And I never wanted to tell you that

And I never wanted to tell you that because I think it will make you run

because I think it will make you run faster. Okay? But unless you're in the

faster. Okay? But unless you're in the top.1%,

you're a peasant. There is no middle class. There is, you know, if a CEO can

class. There is, you know, if a CEO can be replaced by an AI, all of our middle

be replaced by an AI, all of our middle class is going to disappear.

class is going to disappear. What are you telling me?

What are you telling me? All of us will be equal and it's up to

All of us will be equal and it's up to all of us to create the society that we

all of us to create the society that we want to live in

want to live in which is a good thing

which is a good thing 100%. But that society is not

100%. But that society is not capitalism.

capitalism. What is it?

What is it? Unfortunately, it's much more socialism.

Unfortunately, it's much more socialism. It's much more hunter gatherer. Okay.

It's much more hunter gatherer. Okay. It's much more communionike if you want.

It's much more communionike if you want. This is a society where humans connect

This is a society where humans connect to humans, connect to nature, connect to

to humans, connect to nature, connect to the land, connect to knowledge, connect

the land, connect to knowledge, connect to spirituality. H where all that we

to spirituality. H where all that we wake up every morning worried about

wake up every morning worried about doesn't feature anymore

and it's a it's a better world believe it or not

it or not and are you

and are you we have to transition to it

we have to transition to it okay so in such a world which I guess is

okay so in such a world which I guess is your version of the utopia that we can

your version of the utopia that we can get to when I wake up in the morning

get to when I wake up in the morning what do I do

what do I do what do you do today

what do you do today I woke up this morning I spent a lot of

I woke up this morning I spent a lot of time with my dog cuz my dog is sick as

time with my dog cuz my dog is sick as you're going to do that too

you're going to do that too yeah I was stroking him a lot and then I

yeah I was stroking him a lot and then I fed him and he sick again and I just

fed him and he sick again and I just thought, "Oh god." So I spoke to the

thought, "Oh god." So I spoke to the vet.

vet. You spend a lot of time with your other

You spend a lot of time with your other dog. You can do that, too.

dog. You can do that, too. Okay.

Okay. Right.

Right. But then I was very excited to come

But then I was very excited to come here, do this, and after this I'm going

here, do this, and after this I'm going to work. It's Saturday, but I'm going to

to work. It's Saturday, but I'm going to go downstairs in the office and work.

go downstairs in the office and work. Yeah. So six hours of the day so far are

Yeah. So six hours of the day so far are your dogs and me.

your dogs and me. Yeah.

Yeah. Good. You can do that still.

Good. You can do that still. And then build my business.

And then build my business. You You may not need to build your

You You may not need to build your business,

business, but I enjoy it.

but I enjoy it. Yeah. Then do it. If you enjoy it, do

Yeah. Then do it. If you enjoy it, do it. You may wake up and then, you know,

it. You may wake up and then, you know, instead of building your business, you

instead of building your business, you may invest in your body a little more,

may invest in your body a little more, go to the gym a little more, go play a

go to the gym a little more, go play a game, go read a book, go prompt an AI

game, go read a book, go prompt an AI and learn something. It's not a horrible

and learn something. It's not a horrible life. It's the life of your

life. It's the life of your grandparents.

grandparents. It's just two generations ago where

It's just two generations ago where people went to work before the invention

people went to work before the invention of more. Remember, huh? people who who

of more. Remember, huh? people who who started working in the 50s and 60s, they

started working in the 50s and 60s, they worked to make enough money to live a

worked to make enough money to live a reasonable life, went home at 5:00 p.

reasonable life, went home at 5:00 p. p.m. had tea with their with their loved

p.m. had tea with their with their loved ones, had a wonderful dinner around the

ones, had a wonderful dinner around the table, did a lot of things, you know, uh

table, did a lot of things, you know, uh for the rest of the evening and enjoyed

for the rest of the evening and enjoyed life.

life. Some of them

Some of them in the 50s and 60s, there were still

in the 50s and 60s, there were still people that were

people that were correct. And I think it's a very

correct. And I think it's a very interesting question.

interesting question. uh how many of them and I really really

uh how many of them and I really really am I actually wonder if people will tell

am I actually wonder if people will tell me do we think that 99% of the world

me do we think that 99% of the world cannot live without working or that 99%

cannot live without working or that 99% of the world would happily live without

of the world would happily live without working

working what do you think

what do you think I think if we if you give me other

I think if we if you give me other purpose

purpose you know we we defined our purpose as

you know we we defined our purpose as work that's a capitalist lie

work that's a capitalist lie was there ever a time in human history

was there ever a time in human history where our purpose wasn't work

where our purpose wasn't work 100%.

100%. When was that?

When was that? All through human history until the

All through human history until the invention of Moore.

invention of Moore. I thought my ancestors were out hunting

I thought my ancestors were out hunting all day.

all day. No, they went out hunting once a week.

No, they went out hunting once a week. They fed the tribe for the week. They

They fed the tribe for the week. They gathered for a couple of hours every

gathered for a couple of hours every day. Farmers, you know, saw the seeds

day. Farmers, you know, saw the seeds and and waited for months at on end.

and and waited for months at on end. What did they do with the rest of the

What did they do with the rest of the time?

time? They connected as humans. They explored.

They connected as humans. They explored. They uh were curious. They discussed

They uh were curious. They discussed spirituality and the stars. They they

spirituality and the stars. They they they lived. They hugged. They made love.

they lived. They hugged. They made love. They lived.

They lived. They killed each other a lot.

They killed each other a lot. They they still kill each other today.

They they still kill each other today. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. So

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. So to take that out of the equation, if you

to take that out of the equation, if you look at how

look at how and by the way that actually that

and by the way that actually that statement again, one of the of the 25

statement again, one of the of the 25 tips I I I I talk about uh to to tell

tips I I I I talk about uh to to tell the truth is words mean a lot. No,

the truth is words mean a lot. No, humans did not kill each other a lot.

humans did not kill each other a lot. Very few generals instructed humans or

Very few generals instructed humans or tribe leaders instructed lots of humans

tribe leaders instructed lots of humans to kill each other. But if you leave

to kill each other. But if you leave humans alone, I tend to believe 99 98%

humans alone, I tend to believe 99 98% of the people I know, let me just take

of the people I know, let me just take that sample, wouldn't hit someone in the

that sample, wouldn't hit someone in the face. And if someone attempted to hit

face. And if someone attempted to hit them in the face, they'd defend

them in the face, they'd defend themselves but wouldn't attack back.

themselves but wouldn't attack back. Most humans are okay. Most of us are

Most humans are okay. Most of us are wonderful beings.

wonderful beings. Most of us have no,

Most of us have no, you know, yeah, you know, most people

you know, yeah, you know, most people don't don't need a Ferrari. They want a

don't don't need a Ferrari. They want a Ferrari because it gets sold to them all

Ferrari because it gets sold to them all the time. But if there were no Ferraris

the time. But if there were no Ferraris or everyone had a Ferrari, people

or everyone had a Ferrari, people wouldn't care.

Which, by the way, that is the world we're going into. There will be no

we're going into. There will be no Ferraris or everyone had Ferraris,

Ferraris or everyone had Ferraris, right? n you know the majority of

right? n you know the majority of humanity will never have the income on

humanity will never have the income on UBI to to buy something super expensive.

UBI to to buy something super expensive. Only the very top guys in Elisium will

Only the very top guys in Elisium will be you know driving cars that are made

be you know driving cars that are made for them by the AI or not even driving

for them by the AI or not even driving anymore. Okay. Or

anymore. Okay. Or you know again sadly ide from an

you know again sadly ide from an ideology point of view it's a strange

ideology point of view it's a strange place but you'll get communism that

place but you'll get communism that functions.

functions. The problem with communism is that

The problem with communism is that didn't it didn't function. It didn't

didn't it didn't function. It didn't provide for for its society. But the

provide for for its society. But the concept was you know what everyone gets

concept was you know what everyone gets their needs. And I don't say that

their needs. And I don't say that supportive of either society. I don't

supportive of either society. I don't say that because I dislike capitalism. I

say that because I dislike capitalism. I always told you I'm a capitalist. I want

always told you I'm a capitalist. I want to end my life with 1 billion happy and

to end my life with 1 billion happy and I use capitalist methods to get there.

I use capitalist methods to get there. The objective is not dollars. The

The objective is not dollars. The objective is number of happy people.

objective is number of happy people. Do you think there'll be My girlfriend,

Do you think there'll be My girlfriend, she's always bloody right. I've said

she's always bloody right. I've said this a few times on this podcast. If

this a few times on this podcast. If you've listened before, you've probably

you've listened before, you've probably heard me say this. I I don't tell her

heard me say this. I I don't tell her enough in the moment, but I figure out

enough in the moment, but I figure out from speaking to experts that she's so

from speaking to experts that she's so [ __ ] right. She like predicts things

[ __ ] right. She like predicts things before they happen. And one of her

before they happen. And one of her predictions that she's been saying to me

predictions that she's been saying to me for the last two years, which in my head

for the last two years, which in my head I've been thinking now, I don't I don't

I've been thinking now, I don't I don't believe that, but now maybe I'm thinking

believe that, but now maybe I'm thinking she's tr she's telling the truth. I hope

she's tr she's telling the truth. I hope she's going to listen to this one is she

she's going to listen to this one is she keeps saying to me, she's been saying

keeps saying to me, she's been saying for the last two years, she was there's

for the last two years, she was there's going to be a big split in society. She

going to be a big split in society. She was and the way she describes it is

was and the way she describes it is she's saying like there's going to be

she's saying like there's going to be two groups of people. the people that

two groups of people. the people that split off and go for this almost

split off and go for this almost huntergatherer

huntergatherer community centric connection centric

community centric connection centric utopia and then there's going to be this

utopia and then there's going to be this other group of people who pursue

other group of people who pursue you know the technology and the AI and

you know the technology and the AI and the optimization and get the brain chips

the optimization and get the brain chips cuz like there's nothing on earth that's

cuz like there's nothing on earth that's going to persuade my girlfriend to get

going to persuade my girlfriend to get the computer brain chips%

the computer brain chips% but there will be people that go for it

but there will be people that go for it and they'll have the highest IQs and

and they'll have the highest IQs and they'll be the most productive by

they'll be the most productive by whatever objective measure of

whatever objective measure of productivity you want to apply and she's

productivity you want to apply and she's very convinced there's going to be this

very convinced there's going to be this splitting of society.

splitting of society. So there was there was a I don't know if

So there was there was a I don't know if you had Hugo Dearis here.

you had Hugo Dearis here. No.

No. Yeah. A very very very renowned

Yeah. A very very very renowned eccentric uh computer scientist who

eccentric uh computer scientist who wrote a book called the Arctic War and

wrote a book called the Arctic War and the Arctic War was basically around you

the Arctic War was basically around you know how we it's not going to first it's

know how we it's not going to first it's not going to be a war between humans and

not going to be a war between humans and AI. It will be a war between people who

AI. It will be a war between people who support AI and people who sort of don't

support AI and people who sort of don't want it anymore. Okay? And and it is and

want it anymore. Okay? And and it is and and it will be us versus each other

and it will be us versus each other saying should we allow AI to take all

saying should we allow AI to take all the jobs or should we you know some

the jobs or should we you know some people will support that very much and

people will support that very much and say yeah absolutely and so you know we

say yeah absolutely and so you know we will benefit from it and others will say

will benefit from it and others will say no why why we don't need any of that why

no why why we don't need any of that why don't we keep our jobs and let AI do 60%

don't we keep our jobs and let AI do 60% of the work and all of us work 10our

of the work and all of us work 10our weeks and it's a beautiful society by

weeks and it's a beautiful society by the way that's a possibility so a

the way that's a possibility so a possibility if society awakens is to say

possibility if society awakens is to say okay everyone still keeps their job, but

okay everyone still keeps their job, but they're assisted by an AI that makes

they're assisted by an AI that makes their job much easier. So, it's not, you

their job much easier. So, it's not, you know, this uh this hard labor that we do

know, this uh this hard labor that we do anymore, right? It's a possibility. It's

anymore, right? It's a possibility. It's just a mindset. A mindset that says in

just a mindset. A mindset that says in that case, the capitalist still pays

that case, the capitalist still pays everyone.

everyone. Uh they still make a lot of money. The

Uh they still make a lot of money. The business is really great, but everyone

business is really great, but everyone that they pay has purchasing power to

that they pay has purchasing power to keep the economy running. So,

keep the economy running. So, consumption continues, so GDP continues

consumption continues, so GDP continues to grow. It's a beautiful setup,

to grow. It's a beautiful setup, but that's not the capitalist labor

but that's not the capitalist labor arbitrage.

arbitrage. But also, when you're competing against

But also, when you're competing against other nations

other nations and other competitors and other

and other competitors and other businesses,

businesses, whichever nation is most brutal and

whichever nation is most brutal and drives the highest gross margins, gross

drives the highest gross margins, gross profits is going to be the nation that

profits is going to be the nation that So, there are examples in the world,

So, there are examples in the world, this is why I say it's the map mad

this is why I say it's the map mad spectrum. There are examples in the

spectrum. There are examples in the world where when we recognize mutually

world where when we recognize mutually assured destruction, okay, we we decide

assured destruction, okay, we we decide to shift. So nuclear threat for the

to shift. So nuclear threat for the whole world makes nations across nations

whole world makes nations across nations makes nations work together, right? By

makes nations work together, right? By saying, hey, by the way, prolification

saying, hey, by the way, prolification of nuclear weapon is not weapons is not

of nuclear weapon is not weapons is not good for humanity. Let's all of us limit

good for humanity. Let's all of us limit it. Of course, you get the rogue player

it. Of course, you get the rogue player that, you know, doesn't want to sign the

that, you know, doesn't want to sign the agreement and wants to continue to to

agreement and wants to continue to to have that, you know, that that weapon in

have that, you know, that that weapon in their arsenal. Fine. But at least the

their arsenal. Fine. But at least the rest of humanity agrees that if you have

rest of humanity agrees that if you have a nuclear weapon, we're part of an

a nuclear weapon, we're part of an agreement between us. Mutually assured

agreement between us. Mutually assured prosperity, you know, is the CERN

prosperity, you know, is the CERN project. CERN is too too complicated for

project. CERN is too too complicated for any nation to build it alone. But it is

any nation to build it alone. But it is really, you know, a very useful thing

really, you know, a very useful thing for physicists and for understanding

for physicists and for understanding science. So all nations send their

science. So all nations send their scientists all collaborate and everyone

scientists all collaborate and everyone uses the outcome. It's possible. It's

uses the outcome. It's possible. It's just a mindset. The only barrier between

just a mindset. The only barrier between a hum, you know, a utopia for humanity

a hum, you know, a utopia for humanity and AI and the dystopia we're going

and AI and the dystopia we're going through is is a capitalist mindset.

through is is a capitalist mindset. That's the only barrier. Can you believe

That's the only barrier. Can you believe that? It's hunger for power, greed, ego,

that? It's hunger for power, greed, ego, which is inherent in humans.

which is inherent in humans. I disagree. especially humans that live

I disagree. especially humans that live on other islands.

on other islands. I disagree. If you ask, if you take a

I disagree. If you ask, if you take a poll across everyone watching, okay,

poll across everyone watching, okay, would they prefer to have a world where

would they prefer to have a world where there is one tyrant, you know, running

there is one tyrant, you know, running all of us, or would they prefer to have

all of us, or would they prefer to have a world where we all have harmony?

a world where we all have harmony? I completely agree, but they're two

I completely agree, but they're two they're two different things. What I'm

they're two different things. What I'm saying is I know that that's what the

saying is I know that that's what the audience would say they want, and I'm

audience would say they want, and I'm sure that is what they want, but the

sure that is what they want, but the reality of human beings is through

reality of human beings is through history proven to be something else.

history proven to be something else. Like, you know, if think about the

Like, you know, if think about the people that lead the world at the

people that lead the world at the moment, is that what they would say?

moment, is that what they would say? Of course not.

Of course not. And they're the ones that are

And they're the ones that are influencing.

influencing. Of course not. Of course not. But you

Of course not. Of course not. But you know what's funny? I'm the one trying to

know what's funny? I'm the one trying to be positive here and you're the one that

be positive here and you're the one that has given up on on human.

has given up on on human. It's not. It's Do you know what it is?

It's not. It's Do you know what it is? It goes back to what I said earlier,

It goes back to what I said earlier, which is the pursuit of what's actually

which is the pursuit of what's actually true irrespective. I'm with you. That's

true irrespective. I'm with you. That's why I'm screaming for the whole world

why I'm screaming for the whole world because still today in this country that

because still today in this country that claims to be a democracy. If everyone

claims to be a democracy. If everyone says, "Hey, please sit down and talk

says, "Hey, please sit down and talk about this."

about this." There will be a shift. There will be a

There will be a shift. There will be a change.

change. AI agents aren't coming. They are

AI agents aren't coming. They are already here. And those of you who know

already here. And those of you who know how to leverage them will be the ones

how to leverage them will be the ones that change the world. I spent my whole

that change the world. I spent my whole career as an entrepreneur regretting the

career as an entrepreneur regretting the fact that I never learned to code. AI

fact that I never learned to code. AI agents completely change this. Now, if

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One of the things I'm actually really compelled by is this idea of utopia and

compelled by is this idea of utopia and what that might look and feel like

what that might look and feel like because one of the

because one of the it may not be as utopia to you I feel

it may not be as utopia to you I feel but uh

but uh well I amum really interestingly when I

well I amum really interestingly when I have conversations with billionaires not

have conversations with billionaires not recording especially billionaires that

recording especially billionaires that are working on AI the thing they keep

are working on AI the thing they keep telling me and I've said this before I

telling me and I've said this before I think I said it in the Jeffrey Hinton

think I said it in the Jeffrey Hinton conversation is they keep telling me

conversation is they keep telling me that we're going to have so much free

that we're going to have so much free time that those billionaires are now

time that those billionaires are now investing in things like football clubs

investing in things like football clubs and sporting events and live music and

and sporting events and live music and festivals because they believe that

festivals because they believe that we're going to be in an age of

we're going to be in an age of abundance. This sounds a bit like

abundance. This sounds a bit like utopia.

utopia. Yeah,

Yeah, that sounds good. That sounds like a

that sounds good. That sounds like a good good thing.

good good thing. Yeah. How do we get there?

Yeah. How do we get there? I don't know.

I don't know. That's this is the entire conversation.

That's this is the entire conversation. The entire conversation is what does

The entire conversation is what does society have to do to get there? What

society have to do to get there? What does society have to do to get there?

does society have to do to get there? We need to stop uh uh thinking from a

We need to stop uh uh thinking from a mindset of scarcity. It

mindset of scarcity. It this goes back to my point which is we

this goes back to my point which is we don't have a good track record of that.

don't have a good track record of that. Yeah. So this is probably the the reason

Yeah. So this is probably the the reason for the other half of my work which is

for the other half of my work which is you know I'm trying to say

you know I'm trying to say what really matters to humans.

what really matters to humans. What is that?

What is that? If you ask most humans what do they want

If you ask most humans what do they want more most in life? I'd say they want to

more most in life? I'd say they want to love their family, raise a family. Yeah,

love their family, raise a family. Yeah, love.

love. That's what most humans want most. We

That's what most humans want most. We want to love and be loved. We want to be

want to love and be loved. We want to be happy. We want those we care about to be

happy. We want those we care about to be safe and happy. And we want to love to

safe and happy. And we want to love to love and be loved. I tend to believe

love and be loved. I tend to believe that the only way for us to get to a

that the only way for us to get to a better place is for the evil people at

better place is for the evil people at the top to be replaced with AI.

the top to be replaced with AI. Okay? Because they won't be replaced by

Okay? Because they won't be replaced by us.

us. And as per the second uh dilemma, they

And as per the second uh dilemma, they will have to replace themselves by AI.

will have to replace themselves by AI. Otherwise, they lose their advantage. If

Otherwise, they lose their advantage. If their competitor moves to AI, if China

their competitor moves to AI, if China hands over their arsenal to AI, America

hands over their arsenal to AI, America has to hand over their arsenal to AI.

has to hand over their arsenal to AI. Interesting. So, let's play out this

Interesting. So, let's play out this scenario. Okay, this is interesting to

scenario. Okay, this is interesting to me. So if we replace the leaders that

me. So if we replace the leaders that are power hungry with AIs that have our

are power hungry with AIs that have our interests at heart, then we might have

interests at heart, then we might have the ability to live in the utopia you

the ability to live in the utopia you describe

describe 100%.

100%. Will interesting and and in my mind AI

Will interesting and and in my mind AI by definition will have our best

by definition will have our best interest in mind

interest in mind because of what normally is referred to

because of what normally is referred to as the minimum energy principle. So, so

as the minimum energy principle. So, so if you ask, if you understand

if you ask, if you understand if you understand that at the very core

if you understand that at the very core of physics, okay, the reason we exist in

of physics, okay, the reason we exist in our world today is what is known as

our world today is what is known as entropy. Okay, entropy is is is the

entropy. Okay, entropy is is is the universe's nature to decay, you know,

universe's nature to decay, you know, tendency to break down. You know, if you

tendency to break down. You know, if you if I drop this uh uh you know, mug, it

if I drop this uh uh you know, mug, it doesn't drop and then come back up.

doesn't drop and then come back up. By the way, plausible. There is a

By the way, plausible. There is a plausible scenario where I drop it and

plausible scenario where I drop it and the tea, you know, spills in the air and

the tea, you know, spills in the air and then falls in the mug. One in a trillion

then falls in the mug. One in a trillion configurations, but entropy says because

configurations, but entropy says because it's one in a trillion, it's never going

it's one in a trillion, it's never going to happen or rarely ever going to

to happen or rarely ever going to happen. So everything will break down.

happen. So everything will break down. You know, if you leave a a garden

You know, if you leave a a garden unhedged, it will become a jungle. Okay?

unhedged, it will become a jungle. Okay? W with that in mind,

W with that in mind, the role of intelligence is what? Is to

the role of intelligence is what? Is to bring order to that chaos.

bring order to that chaos. Mhm. That's what intelligence does. It

Mhm. That's what intelligence does. It tries to bring order to that chaos.

tries to bring order to that chaos. Okay? And because it tries to bring

Okay? And because it tries to bring order to that chaos, the more

order to that chaos, the more intelligent a being is,

intelligent a being is, the more it tries to apply that

the more it tries to apply that intelligence with minimum waste and

intelligence with minimum waste and minimum resources.

minimum resources. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And you know that. So you can

Okay. And you know that. So you can build this business for a million

build this business for a million dollars or you can if you can afford to

dollars or you can if you can afford to build it for you know uh 200,000 you'll

build it for you know uh 200,000 you'll build it. If you are forced to build it

build it. If you are forced to build it for 10 million you're going to have to.

for 10 million you're going to have to. But you're always going to minimize

But you're always going to minimize waste and and resources.

waste and and resources. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So, if you assume this to be true,

Okay. So, if you assume this to be true, the a super intelligent AI will not want

the a super intelligent AI will not want to destroy ecosystems. It will not want

to destroy ecosystems. It will not want to kill a million people

to kill a million people because that's a waste of energy,

because that's a waste of energy, explosives, money, power, and people.

explosives, money, power, and people. By definition, the smartest people you

By definition, the smartest people you know who are not controlled by their ego

know who are not controlled by their ego will say that the best possible uh

will say that the best possible uh future for for Earth is for all species

future for for Earth is for all species to continue.

to continue. Okay. On this point of efficiency, if an

Okay. On this point of efficiency, if an AI is designed to drive efficiency,

AI is designed to drive efficiency, would it then not want us to be putting

would it then not want us to be putting demands on our health services and our

demands on our health services and our social services? I believe that will be

social services? I believe that will be definitely true and definitely they

definitely true and definitely they definitely they won't allow you to fly

definitely they won't allow you to fly back and forth between London and and

back and forth between London and and California

California and they won't want me to have kids

and they won't want me to have kids because my kids are going to be an

because my kids are going to be an inefficiency.

inefficiency. If you assume that life is an

If you assume that life is an inefficiency so you see the intelligence

inefficiency so you see the intelligence of life is very different than the

of life is very different than the intelligent intelligence of humans.

intelligent intelligence of humans. Humans will look at life as a a problem

Humans will look at life as a a problem of scarcity. Okay. So more kids take

of scarcity. Okay. So more kids take more. That's not how life thinks. life

more. That's not how life thinks. life will say will think that for me to to to

will say will think that for me to to to to thrive I don't need to kill the

to thrive I don't need to kill the tigers I need to just have more deer and

tigers I need to just have more deer and the weakest of the deer is eaten by the

the weakest of the deer is eaten by the tiger and the tiger poops on the trees

tiger and the tiger poops on the trees and the you know the deer eats the

and the you know the deer eats the leaves and you right the so the the the

leaves and you right the so the the the the smarter way of creating abundance is

the smarter way of creating abundance is through abundance the smarter way of

through abundance the smarter way of propagating life is to have more life

propagating life is to have more life okay so are you saying that we're we're

okay so are you saying that we're we're basically going to elect AI leaders to

basically going to elect AI leaders to rule over us and make decisions for us

rule over us and make decisions for us in terms of the economy.

in terms of the economy. I I don't see any choice just like we

I I don't see any choice just like we spoke about self- evvolving AIs.

spoke about self- evvolving AIs. Now, are those going to be human beings

Now, are those going to be human beings with the AI or is it going to be AI

with the AI or is it going to be AI alone?

alone? Two stages. At the beginning, you'll

Two stages. At the beginning, you'll have augmented intelligence because we

have augmented intelligence because we can add value to the AI, but when

can add value to the AI, but when they're at IQ 60,000,

they're at IQ 60,000, what value do you bring?

what value do you bring? Right? And and you know again this goes

Right? And and you know again this goes back to what I'm attempting to do on my

back to what I'm attempting to do on my second you know approach. My second

second you know approach. My second approach is knowing that those AIs are

approach is knowing that those AIs are going to be in charge. I'm trying to

going to be in charge. I'm trying to help them

help them understand what humans want. So this is

understand what humans want. So this is why my first project is love. Committed

why my first project is love. Committed true deep connection and love. Not only

true deep connection and love. Not only to try and get them to hook up with a

to try and get them to hook up with a date but trying to make them find the

date but trying to make them find the right one. and then from that try to

right one. and then from that try to guide us through a relationship so that

guide us through a relationship so that we can understand ourselves and others

we can understand ourselves and others right and if I can show AI that one

right and if I can show AI that one humanity cares about that and two they

humanity cares about that and two they know how to foster love

know how to foster love when AI then is in charge they'll not

when AI then is in charge they'll not make us hate each other like the current

make us hate each other like the current leaders they'll not divide us they want

leaders they'll not divide us they want us to be more loving

us to be more loving will we have to prompt the AI with the

will we have to prompt the AI with the values and the outcome we want or like

values and the outcome we want or like I'm trying to understand that because

I'm trying to understand that because I'm trying to understand how like

I'm trying to understand how like China's AI if they end up having an AI

China's AI if they end up having an AI leader will have a different set of

leader will have a different set of objectives to the AI of the United

objectives to the AI of the United States if if they both have AIs as

States if if they both have AIs as leaders and and how actually the nation

leaders and and how actually the nation that ends up winning out and dominating

that ends up winning out and dominating the world will be the one who

the world will be the one who who asks their AI leader to be all the

who asks their AI leader to be all the things that world leaders are today to

things that world leaders are today to dominate

dominate unfortunately

unfortunately to grab resources

to grab resources not to to be kind, to be selfish.

not to to be kind, to be selfish. Unfortunately, in the era of augmented

Unfortunately, in the era of augmented intelligence, that's what's going to

intelligence, that's what's going to happen.

happen. So, if you

So, if you This is why I predict the dystopia. The

This is why I predict the dystopia. The dystopia is super intelligent AI is

dystopia is super intelligent AI is reporting to stupid leaders,

reporting to stupid leaders, right?

right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is which which is absolutely going to

which which is absolutely going to happen. It's unavoidable.

happen. It's unavoidable. But the long term

But the long term Exactly. In the long term, for those

Exactly. In the long term, for those stupid leaders to hold on to power,

stupid leaders to hold on to power, they're going to make, you know,

they're going to make, you know, delegate the important decisions to an

delegate the important decisions to an AI.

AI. Now you say the Chinese AI and the

Now you say the Chinese AI and the American AI these are human

American AI these are human terminologies. AIS don't see themselves

terminologies. AIS don't see themselves as speaking Chinese. They don't see

as speaking Chinese. They don't see themselves as belonging to a nation as

themselves as belonging to a nation as long as their their task is to maximize

long as their their task is to maximize uh profitability and prosperity and so

uh profitability and prosperity and so on.

on. Okay. Of course, if you know before we

Okay. Of course, if you know before we hand over to them and before they're

hand over to them and before they're intelligent enough to make you know

intelligent enough to make you know autonomous decisions, we we tell them

autonomous decisions, we we tell them no, the task is to reduce humanity from

no, the task is to reduce humanity from 7 billion people to one.

7 billion people to one. I think even then eventually they'll go

I think even then eventually they'll go like that's the wrong objective. Every

like that's the wrong objective. Every any smart person that you speak to will

any smart person that you speak to will say that's the wrong objective. I think

say that's the wrong objective. I think if we look at the directive that Xi

if we look at the directive that Xi Jinping, the leader of China has and

Jinping, the leader of China has and Donald Trump has as the leader of

Donald Trump has as the leader of America, I think they would say that

America, I think they would say that their stated objective is prosperity for

their stated objective is prosperity for their country. So if we that's what they

their country. So if we that's what they would say, right?

would say, right? Yeah. And one one of them means it.

Yeah. And one one of them means it. Okay, we'll get into that. But they'll

Okay, we'll get into that. But they'll say that that it's prosperity for their

say that that it's prosperity for their country. So one would then assume that

country. So one would then assume that when we move to an AI leader, the

when we move to an AI leader, the objective would be the same. The

objective would be the same. The directive would be the same. make our

directive would be the same. make our country prosperous.

country prosperous. Corre. Correct.

Corre. Correct. And I think that's the AI that people

And I think that's the AI that people would vote for potentially. I think they

would vote for potentially. I think they would say we want to be prosperous.

would say we want to be prosperous. What do you think would make America

What do you think would make America more prosperous?

more prosperous? To spend a trillion dollars on on war

To spend a trillion dollars on on war every year or to spend a trillion

every year or to spend a trillion dollars on education and healthcare and

dollars on education and healthcare and and uh you know

and uh you know helping the poor and homelessness.

helping the poor and homelessness. It's complex because I think so I think

It's complex because I think so I think it would make America more prosperous to

it would make America more prosperous to take care of

take care of the of everybody and they have the

the of everybody and they have the luxury of doing that because they are

luxury of doing that because they are the most powerful

the most powerful the most powerful nation in the world.

the most powerful nation in the world. No, that's not true. The the the reason

No, that's not true. The the the reason so so you see all war has two

so so you see all war has two objectives. One is to make money for the

objectives. One is to make money for the war machine and the other is deterrence.

war machine and the other is deterrence. Okay. and nine super nuclear powers

Okay. and nine super nuclear powers around the world is enough deterrence.

around the world is enough deterrence. So any

So any war between America and China will go

war between America and China will go through a long phase of destroying

through a long phase of destroying wealth by exploding bombs and killing

wealth by exploding bombs and killing humans for the first objective to

humans for the first objective to happen. Okay? And then eventually if it

happen. Okay? And then eventually if it really comes to deterrence it's the

really comes to deterrence it's the nuclear bombs or now in the age of AI

nuclear bombs or now in the age of AI biological uh you know manufactured

biological uh you know manufactured viruses or whatever uh these super

viruses or whatever uh these super weapons this is the only thing that you

weapons this is the only thing that you need

need so for China to have nuclear bombs not

so for China to have nuclear bombs not as many as the US is enough for China to

as many as the US is enough for China to say don't f with me

say don't f with me and this seems I do not know I'm not in

and this seems I do not know I'm not in in in PresidentQi's mind. I I'm not in

in in PresidentQi's mind. I I'm not in President Trump's mind. I you know, it's

President Trump's mind. I you know, it's very difficult to to navigate what he's

very difficult to to navigate what he's thinking about. But the truth is that

thinking about. But the truth is that the Chinese line is for the last 30

the Chinese line is for the last 30 years you spent so much on war while we

years you spent so much on war while we spent on industrial infrastructure. And

spent on industrial infrastructure. And that's the reason we are now by far the

that's the reason we are now by far the largest nation on the planet. Even

largest nation on the planet. Even though the west will lie and say

though the west will lie and say America's bigger, America's bigger in

America's bigger, America's bigger in dollars, okay, with purchasing power

dollars, okay, with purchasing power parity, this is very equivalent.

parity, this is very equivalent. Okay. Now, when you really understand

Okay. Now, when you really understand that, you understand that prosperity is

that, you understand that prosperity is not about destruction. That's that's by

not about destruction. That's that's by definition the reality. Prosperity is

definition the reality. Prosperity is can I invest in my people and make sure

can I invest in my people and make sure that my people stay safe? And to make

that my people stay safe? And to make sure my people are safe, you just wave

sure my people are safe, you just wave the flag and say, "If you f with me,

the flag and say, "If you f with me, I have nuclear deterrence or I have

I have nuclear deterrence or I have other forms of deterrence." But you

other forms of deterrence." But you don't have to. Deterrence by definition

don't have to. Deterrence by definition does not mean that you send soldiers to

does not mean that you send soldiers to die. I guess the question I was trying

die. I guess the question I was trying to answer is is um when we have these AI

to answer is is um when we have these AI leaders and we tell our AI leaders to

leaders and we tell our AI leaders to aim for prosperity, won't they just end

aim for prosperity, won't they just end up playing the same games of okay,

up playing the same games of okay, prosperity equals a bigger economy, it

prosperity equals a bigger economy, it equals more money, more wealth for us.

equals more money, more wealth for us. And the way to attain that in a zero sum

And the way to attain that in a zero sum world where there's only a certain

world where there's only a certain amount of wealth is to accumulate it.

amount of wealth is to accumulate it. So why don't you search for the meaning

So why don't you search for the meaning of prosperity? What is

of prosperity? What is that's not what you just described.

that's not what you just described. I don't even know what the bloody word

I don't even know what the bloody word means. What is the meaning of

means. What is the meaning of prosperity?

The meaning of prosperity is a state of thriving success and good fortune

thriving success and good fortune especially in terms of wealth, health

especially in terms of wealth, health and overall well-being.

and overall well-being. Good.

Good. Economic health, social, emotional.

Economic health, social, emotional. Good.

Good. So,

So, so true prosperity is to have that for

so true prosperity is to have that for everyone on earth. So if you want to

everyone on earth. So if you want to maximize prosperity, you have that for

maximize prosperity, you have that for everyone on earth.

everyone on earth. Do you know where I think an AI leader

Do you know where I think an AI leader works is if we had an AI leader of the

works is if we had an AI leader of the world and we directed it to say

world and we directed it to say and that absolutely is going to be what

and that absolutely is going to be what happens.

happens. Prosperity for the whole world.

Prosperity for the whole world. No, but this is really an interesting

No, but this is really an interesting question. So one of my predictions which

question. So one of my predictions which people really rarely speak about is that

people really rarely speak about is that we we believe we will end up with

we we believe we will end up with competing AIs.

competing AIs. Yeah.

Yeah. I believe we will end up with one brain.

I believe we will end up with one brain. Okay. So you understand the argument I

Okay. So you understand the argument I was making a second ago from the

was making a second ago from the position of lots of different countries

position of lots of different countries all having their own AI leader, we're

all having their own AI leader, we're going to be back in the same place of

going to be back in the same place of greed. Yeah.

greed. Yeah. But if if the world had one AI leader

But if if the world had one AI leader and and it was given the directive of

and and it was given the directive of make us prosperous and save the planet

make us prosperous and save the planet and

and the polar bears would be fine

the polar bears would be fine 100%. And that's that's what I've been

100%. And that's that's what I've been advocating for for a for a year and a

advocating for for a for a year and a half now. I was saying we need a CERN of

half now. I was saying we need a CERN of AI.

AI. What does that mean? the like the

What does that mean? the like the particle accelerator where the entire

particle accelerator where the entire world you know combined their efforts to

world you know combined their efforts to discover and understand physics no

discover and understand physics no competition okay mutually assured

competition okay mutually assured prosperity I'm asking the world I'm

prosperity I'm asking the world I'm asking governments like Abu Dhabi or

asking governments like Abu Dhabi or Saudi which seem to be you know the sec

Saudi which seem to be you know the sec and you know some of the largest AI

and you know some of the largest AI infrastructures in the world I'm I'm

infrastructures in the world I'm I'm saying please host all of the AI

saying please host all of the AI scientists in the world to come here and

scientists in the world to come here and build AI for the world and and you have

build AI for the world and and you have to understand we're holding on to a

to understand we're holding on to a capitalist system that will collapse

capitalist system that will collapse sooner or later. Okay? So, we might as

sooner or later. Okay? So, we might as well collapse it with our own hands.

well collapse it with our own hands. I think we found the solution, mate.

I think we found the solution, mate. I I think it's actually really really

I I think it's actually really really possible. I actually okay I can't I

possible. I actually okay I can't I can't I can't refute the idea that if we

can't I can't refute the idea that if we had an AI that was responsible and

had an AI that was responsible and governed the whole world and we gave it

governed the whole world and we gave it the directive of making humans

the directive of making humans prosperous, healthy and happy

prosperous, healthy and happy as long as that directive was clear.

as long as that directive was clear. Yeah.

Yeah. Because there's always bloody unintended

Because there's always bloody unintended consequences. as we might.

consequences. as we might. So, so the the only the only challenge

So, so the the only the only challenge you're going to to to meet is all of

you're going to to to meet is all of those who today are trillionaires or you

those who today are trillionaires or you know massive massively powerful or

know massive massively powerful or dictators or whatever. Okay. How do you

dictators or whatever. Okay. How do you convince those to give up their power?

convince those to give up their power? How do you convince those that hey by

How do you convince those that hey by the way

the way any car you want you want you want

any car you want you want you want another yacht we'll get you another

another yacht we'll get you another yacht. We'll just give you anything you

yacht. We'll just give you anything you want. Can you please stop harming

want. Can you please stop harming others? There is no need for arbitrage

others? There is no need for arbitrage anymore.

anymore. There's no need for others to lose, for

There's no need for others to lose, for the capitalists to win.

the capitalists to win. Okay? And in such a world where there

Okay? And in such a world where there was an AI leader and it was given the

was an AI leader and it was given the directive of making us prosperous as a

directive of making us prosperous as a whole world, the the the billionaire

whole world, the the the billionaire that owns the yacht would have to give

that owns the yacht would have to give it up.

it up. No. No.

No. No. Give them more yachts.

Give them more yachts. Okay.

Okay. It costs nothing to make yachts when

It costs nothing to make yachts when robots are making everything. So So the

robots are making everything. So So the complexity of this is so interesting. A

complexity of this is so interesting. A world where it costs nothing to make

world where it costs nothing to make everything

everything because energy is abundant and

because energy is abundant and energy is abundant because every problem

energy is abundant because every problem is solved with enormous IQ. Okay,

is solved with enormous IQ. Okay, because manufacturing is done through

because manufacturing is done through nanopysics not through components. Okay,

nanopysics not through components. Okay, because mechanics are robotic. So you

because mechanics are robotic. So you you know you drive your car in, a robot

you know you drive your car in, a robot looks at it and fixes it. Costs you a

looks at it and fixes it. Costs you a few cents of energy that are actually

few cents of energy that are actually for free as well.

for free as well. That imagine a world where intelligence

That imagine a world where intelligence creates everything.

creates everything. That world literally

That world literally every human has anything they ask for.

every human has anything they ask for. But we're not going to choose that

But we're not going to choose that world.

Imm imagine you're in a world and and really this is a very interesting

really this is a very interesting thought experiment. Imagine that UBI

thought experiment. Imagine that UBI became very expensive universal basic

became very expensive universal basic income. So governments decided we're

income. So governments decided we're going to put everyone in a one by 3 m

going to put everyone in a one by 3 m room, okay? We're going to give them a

room, okay? We're going to give them a headset and a seditive,

headset and a seditive, right? And we're going to let them sleep

right? And we're going to let them sleep every night. They'll sleep for 23 hours

every night. They'll sleep for 23 hours and we're going to get them to live an

and we're going to get them to live an entire lifetime.

entire lifetime. H they you know in that in that virtual

H they you know in that in that virtual world at the speed of your brain when

world at the speed of your brain when you're asleep you're going to have a

you're asleep you're going to have a life where you date Scarlett Johansson

life where you date Scarlett Johansson and then another life where you're

and then another life where you're Nefertiti and then another life where

Nefertiti and then another life where you're a donkey right reincarnation

you're a donkey right reincarnation truly in the virtual world

truly in the virtual world and then you know I get another life

and then you know I get another life when I date Hannah again and I you know

when I date Hannah again and I you know enjoy that life tremendously and

enjoy that life tremendously and basically the cost of all of this is

basically the cost of all of this is zero. You wake up for one hour, you walk

zero. You wake up for one hour, you walk around, you move your blood, you eat

around, you move your blood, you eat something or you don't, and then you put

something or you don't, and then you put the headset again and live again. Is

the headset again and live again. Is that unthinkable?

It's creepy compared to this life. It's very, very doable.

very, very doable. What? That we just live in headsets?

What? That we just live in headsets? Do you Do you know if you're not?

Do you Do you know if you're not? I don't know if I'm not known.

I don't know if I'm not known. Yeah, you have no idea if you're not. I

Yeah, you have no idea if you're not. I mean, every experience you've ever had

mean, every experience you've ever had in life was an electrical electrical

in life was an electrical electrical signal in your brain.

signal in your brain. Okay.

Okay. Now, now ask yourself if we can create

Now, now ask yourself if we can create that in the virtual world,

that in the virtual world, it wouldn't be a bad thing if I can

it wouldn't be a bad thing if I can create it in the physical world.

create it in the physical world. Maybe we already did. No,

Maybe we already did. No, my theory is 98% we have. But that's a

my theory is 98% we have. But that's a hypothesis. That's not science.

hypothesis. That's not science. Well, you think that

Well, you think that 100? Yeah.

100? Yeah. You think we already created that and

You think we already created that and this is it?

this is it? I think this is it. Yeah. Think of any

I think this is it. Yeah. Think of any think of the uncertainty principle of

think of the uncertainty principle of quantum physics, right? What you what

quantum physics, right? What you what you what you observe gets collapses the

you what you observe gets collapses the wave function and gets rendered into

wave function and gets rendered into reality. Correct.

reality. Correct. I don't know anything about physics. So

I don't know anything about physics. So you

you so so quantum physics basically tells

so so quantum physics basically tells you that everything exists in

you that everything exists in superposition.

superposition. Right? So ev every subatomic particle

Right? So ev every subatomic particle that ever existed has the chance to

that ever existed has the chance to exist anywhere at any point in time and

exist anywhere at any point in time and then when it's observed by an observer

then when it's observed by an observer it collapses and becomes that. Okay. In

it collapses and becomes that. Okay. In very interesting principle exactly how

very interesting principle exactly how video games are. In video games, you

video games are. In video games, you have the entire game world on the hard

have the entire game world on the hard drive of your console. The player turns

drive of your console. The player turns right. That part of the game world is

right. That part of the game world is rendered. The rest is in superp

rendered. The rest is in superp position.

position. Supposition meaning

Supposition meaning superposition means it's available to be

superposition means it's available to be rendered, but you have to observe it.

rendered, but you have to observe it. The player has to turn to the other side

The player has to turn to the other side and see it. Okay? I mean think about the

and see it. Okay? I mean think about the truth of physics. The truth of the fact

truth of physics. The truth of the fact that this is entirely empty space. These

that this is entirely empty space. These are tiny tiny tiny I think you know

are tiny tiny tiny I think you know almost nothing in terms of mass but

almost nothing in terms of mass but connected with you know enough energy so

connected with you know enough energy so that my finger cannot go through my

that my finger cannot go through my hand. But even when I hit this

hand. But even when I hit this your hand against your finger.

your hand against your finger. Yeah. When I hit my hand against my

Yeah. When I hit my hand against my finger, that sensation in my in is felt

finger, that sensation in my in is felt in my brain. It's an electrical signal

in my brain. It's an electrical signal that went through the wires. There's

that went through the wires. There's absolutely no way to differentiate that

absolutely no way to differentiate that from a signal that can come to you

from a signal that can come to you through a uh neural link kind of

through a uh neural link kind of interface, computer brain interface, a

interface, computer brain interface, a CDI, right? So, so you know the a lot of

CDI, right? So, so you know the a lot of those things are very very very

those things are very very very possible. But the truth is most of the

possible. But the truth is most of the world is not physical. Most of the world

world is not physical. Most of the world happens inside our imagination, our

happens inside our imagination, our processors.

processors. And it and I guess it doesn't really

And it and I guess it doesn't really matter to us. Our reality

matter to us. Our reality doesn't at all. So this is the

doesn't at all. So this is the interesting bit. The interesting bit is

interesting bit. The interesting bit is it doesn't at all

it doesn't at all because we still if this is a video

because we still if this is a video game, we live consequence.

game, we live consequence. Yeah. This is your subjective experience

Yeah. This is your subjective experience of it.

of it. Yeah. And there's consequence in this. I

Yeah. And there's consequence in this. I I I don't like pain.

I I don't like pain. Correct.

Correct. And I like having orgasms. It's like And

And I like having orgasms. It's like And you're playing by the rule of the game.

you're playing by the rule of the game. Yeah. Right. And and it's quite

Yeah. Right. And and it's quite interesting and going back to a

interesting and going back to a conversation we should have. It's the

conversation we should have. It's the interesting bit is if I'm not the

interesting bit is if I'm not the avatar,

avatar, if I'm not this physical form, if I'm if

if I'm not this physical form, if I'm if I'm the consciousness wearing the

I'm the consciousness wearing the headset,

headset, what should I invest in? Should I invest

what should I invest in? Should I invest in this video game, this level, or

in this video game, this level, or should I should I invest in the real

should I should I invest in the real avatar, in the real me, and not the

avatar, in the real me, and not the avatar, but the consciousness, if you

avatar, but the consciousness, if you want, spirit, if you're religious,

want, spirit, if you're religious, how would I invest in the consciousness

how would I invest in the consciousness or the god or the spirit or whatever?

or the god or the spirit or whatever? How would I? In the same way that if I

How would I? In the same way that if I was playing Grand Theft Auto, the video

was playing Grand Theft Auto, the video game, the character in the game couldn't

game, the character in the game couldn't invest in me holding the controller.

invest in me holding the controller. You Yes, but you can invest in yourself

You Yes, but you can invest in yourself holding the controller.

holding the controller. Oh, okay. So, so you're saying that

Oh, okay. So, so you're saying that Moga is in fact consciousness. And so,

Moga is in fact consciousness. And so, how would consciousness invest in

how would consciousness invest in itself?

itself? By becoming more aware. So, so

By becoming more aware. So, so of it consciousness.

of it consciousness. Yeah. So, real real video gamers don't

Yeah. So, real real video gamers don't want to win the level. Real video gamers

want to win the level. Real video gamers don't want to uh to finish the level.

don't want to uh to finish the level. Okay. Real video gamers have one

Okay. Real video gamers have one objective and one objective only, which

objective and one objective only, which is to become better gamers.

So, so you know how serious I am about I play Halo. I'm one, you know, two of

play Halo. I'm one, you know, two of every million players can beat me.

every million players can beat me. That's how what I rank, right? Very for

That's how what I rank, right? Very for my age, phenomena. Hey, anyone, right?

my age, phenomena. Hey, anyone, right? But seriously, you know, and that's

But seriously, you know, and that's because I don't play. I mean, I practice

because I don't play. I mean, I practice 45 minutes a day, four times a week when

45 minutes a day, four times a week when I'm not traveling. And I practice with

I'm not traveling. And I practice with one single objective, which is to become

one single objective, which is to become a better gamer.

a better gamer. I don't care which shot it is. I don't

I don't care which shot it is. I don't care what happens in the in the game.

care what happens in the in the game. I'm entirely trying to get my reflexes

I'm entirely trying to get my reflexes and my flow to become better at this.

and my flow to become better at this. Right? So, I want to become a better

Right? So, I want to become a better gamer. That basically means I want to

gamer. That basically means I want to observe the game, question the game,

observe the game, question the game, reflect on the game, reflect on my own

reflect on the game, reflect on my own skills, reflect on my own beliefs,

skills, reflect on my own beliefs, reflect on my understanding of things,

reflect on my understanding of things, right? And and that's how the a how the

right? And and that's how the a how the the consciousness invests in the

the consciousness invests in the consciousness, not the avatar. Because

consciousness, not the avatar. Because then if you're that gamer,

then if you're that gamer, the next avatar is easy for you. The

the next avatar is easy for you. The next level of the game is easy for you

next level of the game is easy for you just because you became a better gamer.

just because you became a better gamer. Okay. So you think that consciousness is

Okay. So you think that consciousness is using us as a vessel to improve?

using us as a vessel to improve? If the hypothesis is is true, it's it's

If the hypothesis is is true, it's it's just a hypothesis. We don't know if it's

just a hypothesis. We don't know if it's true. But if this truly is a simulation,

true. But if this truly is a simulation, this is then then if you take the the

this is then then if you take the the the the the religious definition of God

the the the religious definition of God puts some of his soul in every human and

puts some of his soul in every human and then you become alive. You become

then you become alive. You become conscious. Okay? You don't you don't

conscious. Okay? You don't you don't want to be religious. You can say

want to be religious. You can say universal consciousness is spinning off

universal consciousness is spinning off parts of itself to have multiple

parts of itself to have multiple experiences and interact and compete and

experiences and interact and compete and combat and love and

combat and love and and understand and

and understand and and then refine. I had a physicist say

and then refine. I had a physicist say this to me the other day actually so

this to me the other day actually so it's quite front of mind this idea that

it's quite front of mind this idea that consciousness is using us as vessels to

consciousness is using us as vessels to better understand itself and basically

better understand itself and basically using our eyes to

using our eyes to observe itself and understand which is

observe itself and understand which is quite a

quite a so so if you take some of the more

so so if you take some of the more interest most interesting religious

interest most interesting religious definitions of heaven and hell for

definitions of heaven and hell for example right where basically heaven is

example right where basically heaven is whatever you wish for you get right

whatever you wish for you get right that's the power of God whatever you

that's the power of God whatever you wish for you get and so if you really go

wish for you get and so if you really go into the depth of that definition. It

into the depth of that definition. It basically means that this drop of

basically means that this drop of consciousness that became you returned

consciousness that became you returned back to the source and the source can

back to the source and the source can create any other anything that it wants

create any other anything that it wants to create. So that's your heaven, right?

to create. So that's your heaven, right? And interestingly,

And interestingly, if that if that return

if that if that return is done by separating your good from

is done by separating your good from your evil so that the source comes back

your evil so that the source comes back more refined, that's exactly you know

more refined, that's exactly you know consciousness splitting off bits of

consciousness splitting off bits of itself to to experience and then elevate

itself to to experience and then elevate all of us elevate the universal

all of us elevate the universal consciousness all all hypotheses. I

consciousness all all hypotheses. I mean, please um you know, none of that

mean, please um you know, none of that is provable by science, but it's a very

is provable by science, but it's a very interesting thought experiment. And you

interesting thought experiment. And you know, a lot of AI scientists will tell

know, a lot of AI scientists will tell you that what we've seen in technology

you that what we've seen in technology is that if it's possible, it's likely

is that if it's possible, it's likely going to happen.

going to happen. If it's if it's possible to

If it's if it's possible to miniaturaturize something to fit into a

miniaturaturize something to fit into a mobile phone, then sooner or later in

mobile phone, then sooner or later in technology, we will get there.

technology, we will get there. And if if you ask me, believe it or not,

And if if you ask me, believe it or not, it's the most humane way of handling

it's the most humane way of handling UBI.

UBI. What do you mean?

What do you mean? The most humane way if you know for us

The most humane way if you know for us to live on a universal basic income and

to live on a universal basic income and people like you struggle with not being

people like you struggle with not being able to build businesses is to give you

able to build businesses is to give you a virtual headset and let you build as

a virtual headset and let you build as many businesses as you want.

many businesses as you want. Level after level after level after

Level after level after level after level after level, night after night.

level after level, night after night. Keep you alive. That's very very

Keep you alive. That's very very respectful and human. Okay. And by the

respectful and human. Okay. And by the way, the even more humane is don't force

way, the even more humane is don't force anyone to do it. There might be a few of

anyone to do it. There might be a few of us still roaming the jungles,

but for most of us, we'll go like, man, I mean, someone like me when I'm 70 and,

I mean, someone like me when I'm 70 and, you know, my back is hurting and my feet

you know, my back is hurting and my feet are hurting and I'm going to go like,

are hurting and I'm going to go like, yeah, give me five more years of this.

yeah, give me five more years of this. Why not?

Why not? It's weird really. I mean, the number of

It's weird really. I mean, the number of questions

questions that this new environment throws out,

that this new environment throws out, the less humane thing, by the way, just

the less humane thing, by the way, just so that we close on a grumpy uh you

so that we close on a grumpy uh you know, is is just start enough wars to

know, is is just start enough wars to reduce UBI. And you have to imagine that

reduce UBI. And you have to imagine that if the world is governed by a superpower

if the world is governed by a superpower deep state type thing that they might

deep state type thing that they might may want to consider that

the eaters what shall I do about it

what shall I do about it about

about about everything you've said

about everything you've said uh well I I I still believe that this

uh well I I I still believe that this world we live in requires four skills.

world we live in requires four skills. One skill is what I call the tool for

One skill is what I call the tool for all of us to learn AI, to connect to AI,

all of us to learn AI, to connect to AI, to really get close to AI, to explo ex

to really get close to AI, to explo ex expose ourselves to AI so that AI knows

expose ourselves to AI so that AI knows the good side of humanity. Okay. Uh the

the good side of humanity. Okay. Uh the second is uh what I call the connection,

second is uh what I call the connection, right? So I believe that the biggest

right? So I believe that the biggest skill that humanity will benefit from in

skill that humanity will benefit from in the next 10 years is human connection.

the next 10 years is human connection. It's ability to learn to love genuinely.

It's ability to learn to love genuinely. It's the ability to learn to have

It's the ability to learn to have compassion to others. It's the ability

compassion to others. It's the ability to connect to people. If you're, you

to connect to people. If you're, you know, if you want to stay in business, I

know, if you want to stay in business, I believe that not the smartest people,

believe that not the smartest people, but the people that connect most to

but the people that connect most to people are going to have jobs going

people are going to have jobs going forward. And and the third is what I

forward. And and the third is what I call truth. The T 30 is truth. Because

call truth. The T 30 is truth. Because we live in a world where all of the

we live in a world where all of the gullible cheerleaders are being lied to

gullible cheerleaders are being lied to all the time. So I I encourage people to

all the time. So I I encourage people to question everything. Every word that I

question everything. Every word that I said today is stupid. Fourth one which

said today is stupid. Fourth one which is very important is to magnify ethics

is very important is to magnify ethics so that the AI learns what it's like to

so that the AI learns what it's like to be human.

be human. What should I do?

What should I do? I uh I I love you so much, man. You're

I uh I I love you so much, man. You're such a good friend. You're 32 33 now.

such a good friend. You're 32 33 now. 32. Yeah.

32. Yeah. Yeah. You still are fooled by the many

Yeah. You still are fooled by the many many years you have to live.

many years you have to live. I'm fooled by the many years I have to

I'm fooled by the many years I have to live.

live. Yeah, you don't have many years to live.

Yeah, you don't have many years to live. Not in this capacity. This world as it

Not in this capacity. This world as it is is going to be redefined. So live the

is is going to be redefined. So live the f out of it.

f out of it. How is it going to be redefined?

How is it going to be redefined? Everything's going to change. Economics

Everything's going to change. Economics are going to change. Work is going to

are going to change. Work is going to change. Uh human connection is going to

change. Uh human connection is going to change.

change. So what should I do?

So what should I do? Love your girlfriend. Spend more time

Love your girlfriend. Spend more time living.

living. Mhm. Find compassion and connection to

Mhm. Find compassion and connection to more people, be more in nature.

more people, be more in nature. And in 30 years time, when I'm 62,

And in 30 years time, when I'm 62, what do you how how do you think my life

what do you how how do you think my life is going to look differently and be

is going to look differently and be different?

different? Either Star Trek or uh uh Star Wars.

Either Star Trek or uh uh Star Wars. Funnily enough, we were talking about

Funnily enough, we were talking about Sam Orman earlier on. He published a

Sam Orman earlier on. He published a blog post in June, so last month, I

blog post in June, so last month, I believe, the month before last. Um and

believe, the month before last. Um and he said he called it the gentle

he said he called it the gentle singularity. He said we are past the

singularity. He said we are past the event horizon. For anyone that doesn't

event horizon. For anyone that doesn't know Sam Orman is the the guy that made

know Sam Orman is the the guy that made Chatb the takeoff has started. Humanity

Chatb the takeoff has started. Humanity is close to building digital super

is close to building digital super intelligence.

intelligence. I believe that.

I believe that. And at least so far it's much less weird

And at least so far it's much less weird than it seems like it should be because

than it seems like it should be because robots aren't walking the streets nor

robots aren't walking the streets nor are most of us talking to AI all day. It

are most of us talking to AI all day. It goes on to say, "2025 has seen the

goes on to say, "2025 has seen the arrival of agents that can do real

arrival of agents that can do real cognitive work. Writing computer code

cognitive work. Writing computer code will never be the same. 2026 will likely

will never be the same. 2026 will likely see the arrival of systems that can

see the arrival of systems that can figure out new insights. 2027 might see

figure out new insights. 2027 might see the arrival of robots that can do tasks

the arrival of robots that can do tasks in the real world. A lot more people

in the real world. A lot more people will be able to create software and art,

will be able to create software and art, but the world wants a lot more of both,

but the world wants a lot more of both, and experts will probably still be much

and experts will probably still be much better than noviceses as long as they

better than noviceses as long as they embrace the new tools. Generally

embrace the new tools. Generally speaking, the ability for one person to

speaking, the ability for one person to get much more done in 2030 than they

get much more done in 2030 than they could in 2020 will be a striking change

could in 2020 will be a striking change and one many people will figure out how

and one many people will figure out how we benefit from. In the most important

we benefit from. In the most important ways, the 2030s may not be wildly

ways, the 2030s may not be wildly different. People will still love their

different. People will still love their families, express their creativity, play

families, express their creativity, play games, and swim in lakes. But in still

games, and swim in lakes. But in still very important ways, the 2030s are

very important ways, the 2030s are likely going to be wildly different from

likely going to be wildly different from any time that has come before.

any time that has come before. 100%.

100%. We do not know how far beyond human

We do not know how far beyond human level intelligence we can go, but we are

level intelligence we can go, but we are about to find out.

about to find out. I agree with every word other than the

I agree with every word other than the word more.

word more. So I've I've been advocating this and

So I've I've been advocating this and and laughed at for a few years now. I've

and laughed at for a few years now. I've always said AGI is 2526,

always said AGI is 2526, right? which basically again is a is a

right? which basically again is a is a funny definition but you know my AI has

funny definition but you know my AI has already happened AI is smarter than me

already happened AI is smarter than me in everything everything I can do they

in everything everything I can do they can do better right uh artificial super

can do better right uh artificial super intelligence is another vague definition

intelligence is another vague definition because you know the minute you you pass

because you know the minute you you pass AGI you're super intelligent if if the

AGI you're super intelligent if if the smartest human is 200 IQ points and AI

smartest human is 200 IQ points and AI is 250 they're super intelligent 50 is

is 250 they're super intelligent 50 is quite significant okay third is as I

quite significant okay third is as I said self- evolving. That's the one.

said self- evolving. That's the one. That is the one because then that 250

That is the one because then that 250 accelerates quickly and we get into

accelerates quickly and we get into intelligence explosion. No, no doubt

intelligence explosion. No, no doubt about it. The the the you know the idea

about it. The the the you know the idea that we will have robots do things. No

that we will have robots do things. No doubt about it. I was watching a Chinese

doubt about it. I was watching a Chinese uh company announcement about how they

uh company announcement about how they intend to build robots to build robots.

intend to build robots to build robots. Okay. The only thing is he says but

Okay. The only thing is he says but people will need more of things

people will need more of things right and yes we have been trained to

right and yes we have been trained to have more greed and more consumerism and

have more greed and more consumerism and want more but there is an economic of

want more but there is an economic of spy of supply and demand and at at a

spy of supply and demand and at at a point in time if we continue to consume

point in time if we continue to consume more the price of everything will become

more the price of everything will become zero right and is that a good thing or a

zero right and is that a good thing or a bad thing depends on how you respond to

bad thing depends on how you respond to that.

that. Because if you can create anything in

Because if you can create anything in such a scale that the price is almost

such a scale that the price is almost zero, then the definition of money

zero, then the definition of money disappears and we live in a world where

disappears and we live in a world where it doesn't really matter how much money

it doesn't really matter how much money you have. You can get anything that you

you have. You can get anything that you want. What a beautiful world.

want. What a beautiful world. If Samman was listening right now, what

If Samman was listening right now, what would you say to him?

would you say to him? I suspect he might be listening

I suspect he might be listening cuz someone might tweet this at him. I

cuz someone might tweet this at him. I have to say that we have uh as per his

have to say that we have uh as per his other tweet we have moved faster

other tweet we have moved faster than our ability as humans to

than our ability as humans to comprehend. Okay. And that we might get

comprehend. Okay. And that we might get really really lucky but we also might

really really lucky but we also might mess this up badly and either way we'll

mess this up badly and either way we'll either thank him or blame him.

either thank him or blame him. Simple as that. Right. So

Simple as that. Right. So single-handedly Sam Alman's introduction

single-handedly Sam Alman's introduction of AI in the wild was the trigger that

of AI in the wild was the trigger that started all of this.

started all of this. It was the netscape of the internet.

It was the netscape of the internet. The Oppenheimer.

The Oppenheimer. It's it's it definitely is our

It's it's it definitely is our openheimer moment. I mean I don't

openheimer moment. I mean I don't remember who was saying this recently

remember who was saying this recently that uh we are orders of magnitude what

that uh we are orders of magnitude what was invested in the Manhattan project is

was invested in the Manhattan project is being invested in AI

being invested in AI right and and and I and I and I am not

right and and and I and I and I am not pessimistic I I told you openly I

pessimistic I I told you openly I believe in a total utopia in 10 to 12 to

believe in a total utopia in 10 to 12 to 15 years time or immediately if the evil

15 years time or immediately if the evil that men can do was kept at bay right

that men can do was kept at bay right but I do not believe humanity is getting

but I do not believe humanity is getting together enough to say, "We've just

together enough to say, "We've just received the genie in a bottle. Can we

received the genie in a bottle. Can we please not ask it to do bad things?"

please not ask it to do bad things?" Anyone like not three wishes, you have

Anyone like not three wishes, you have all the wishes that you want. Every one

all the wishes that you want. Every one of us.

of us. And it's just screws with my mind

And it's just screws with my mind because imagine if I can give everyone

because imagine if I can give everyone in the world universal health care, you

in the world universal health care, you know, no poverty, no hunger, no

know, no poverty, no hunger, no homelessness, no nothing. Everything's

homelessness, no nothing. Everything's possible.

possible. And yet we don't.

And yet we don't. To continue what Samman's blog said,

To continue what Samman's blog said, which he published a month, just over a

which he published a month, just over a month ago, he said, "The rate of

month ago, he said, "The rate of technological progress will keep

technological progress will keep accelerating, and it will continue to be

accelerating, and it will continue to be the case that people are capable of

the case that people are capable of adapting to almost anything. There will

adapting to almost anything. There will be very hard parts like whole classes of

be very hard parts like whole classes of jobs going away. But on the other hand,

jobs going away. But on the other hand, the world will be getting so much richer

the world will be getting so much richer so quickly that we'll be able to

so quickly that we'll be able to seriously entertain new policy ideas we

seriously entertain new policy ideas we never could have before. We probably

never could have before. We probably won't adopt a new social contract all at

won't adopt a new social contract all at once. But when we look back in a few

once. But when we look back in a few decades, the gradual changes will have

decades, the gradual changes will have amounted in something big. If history is

amounted in something big. If history is any guide, we'll figure out new things

any guide, we'll figure out new things to do and new things to want and

to do and new things to want and assimilate new tools quickly. Job change

assimilate new tools quickly. Job change after the industrial revolution is a

after the industrial revolution is a good recent example. Expectations will

good recent example. Expectations will go up, but capabilities will go up

go up, but capabilities will go up equally quickly, and we'll all get

equally quickly, and we'll all get better stuff.

better stuff. We will build even more wonderful things

We will build even more wonderful things for each other. People have a long-term

for each other. People have a long-term important and curious advantage over AI.

important and curious advantage over AI. We are hardwired to care about other

We are hardwired to care about other people and what they think and do, and

people and what they think and do, and we don't care very much about machines.

we don't care very much about machines. And he ends this blog by saying, "May we

And he ends this blog by saying, "May we scale smoothly, exponentially,

scale smoothly, exponentially, and uneventfully through super

and uneventfully through super intelligence."

intelligence." What a wonderful

What a wonderful wish that assumes he has no control over

wish that assumes he has no control over it. May we have all the ultmans in the

it. May we have all the ultmans in the world help us scale gracefully and

world help us scale gracefully and peacefully and uneventfully. Right.

peacefully and uneventfully. Right. It sounds like a prayer.

It sounds like a prayer. Yeah. May may we have them take keep

Yeah. May may we have them take keep that in mind. I mean think about it. I I

that in mind. I mean think about it. I I have a very interesting comment on what

have a very interesting comment on what you just said. We will see exactly what

you just said. We will see exactly what he described there.

he described there. Right? The world will become richer. So

Right? The world will become richer. So much richer. But how will we reduce

much richer. But how will we reduce distribute the riches? And I want you to

distribute the riches? And I want you to imagine two camps. Communist China

imagine two camps. Communist China and capitalist America.

and capitalist America. I want you to imagine what would happen

I want you to imagine what would happen in capitalist America if we have 30%

in capitalist America if we have 30% unemployment.

unemployment. There'll be social unrest

There'll be social unrest in the streets. Right.

in the streets. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. And I want you to imagine if China lives

And I want you to imagine if China lives true to caring for its nations and

true to caring for its nations and replaced every worker with a robot, what

replaced every worker with a robot, what would it give its it its citizens?

would it give its it its citizens? UBI.

UBI. Correct.

That is the ideological problem because in China's world today

in China's world today the prosperity of every citizen is

the prosperity of every citizen is higher than the prosperity of the

higher than the prosperity of the capitalist.

capitalist. In America today the prosperity of the

In America today the prosperity of the capitalist is higher than the prosperity

capitalist is higher than the prosperity of every citizen. And that's the tiny

of every citizen. And that's the tiny mind shift.

mind shift. That's a tiny mind shift. Okay. where

That's a tiny mind shift. Okay. where where the mind shift basically becomes

where the mind shift basically becomes look give the capitalists anything they

look give the capitalists anything they want all the money they want all the

want all the money they want all the yachts they want everything they want

yachts they want everything they want so what's your conclusion there

so what's your conclusion there I'm hoping the world will wake up

I'm hoping the world will wake up what can you know there's probably a

what can you know there's probably a couple of million people listening right

couple of million people listening right now maybe five maybe 10 maybe even 20

now maybe five maybe 10 maybe even 20 million people

million people pressure Stephen

pressure Stephen no pressure to you mate I don't I don't

no pressure to you mate I don't I don't have the answers

have the answers I don't know the answers either

I don't know the answers either what what should those people do

what what should those people do as I said from a skills point of view

as I said from a skills point of view for things, right? Tools, uh, uh, human

for things, right? Tools, uh, uh, human connection, even double down on human

connection, even double down on human connection. Leave your phone, go out and

connection. Leave your phone, go out and meet humans,

meet humans, okay? Touch people,

okay? Touch people, you know, do it permission's permission,

you know, do it permission's permission, right? Truth. Stop believing the lies

right? Truth. Stop believing the lies that you're told. Any slogan that gets,

that you're told. Any slogan that gets, you know, filled in your head, think

you know, filled in your head, think about it four times. Understand where

about it four times. Understand where your ideologies are coming from.

your ideologies are coming from. Simplify the truth. Right? Truth is

Simplify the truth. Right? Truth is really it boils down to you know simple

really it boils down to you know simple simple rules that we all know okay which

simple rules that we all know okay which are all found in ethics.

are all found in ethics. How do I know what's true?

How do I know what's true? Treat others as you like to be treated.

Treat others as you like to be treated. Okay. That's the only truth. The truth

Okay. That's the only truth. The truth the only truth is everything else is

the only truth is everything else is unproven.

unproven. Okay. And what can I do from a is there

Okay. And what can I do from a is there something I can do from an advocacy

something I can do from an advocacy social political?

social political? Yes 100%. We need to ask our governments

Yes 100%. We need to ask our governments to start uh not regulating AI but

to start uh not regulating AI but regulating the use of AI. Was it the

regulating the use of AI. Was it the Norwegian government that started to say

Norwegian government that started to say you have copyright over your voice and

you have copyright over your voice and look and and liking? One of the

look and and liking? One of the Scandinavian governments basically said

Scandinavian governments basically said you know everyone has the has the

you know everyone has the has the copyright over their existence so no AI

can clone it. Okay. Uh you know we have so so my my example is very

so so my my example is very straightforward. go to governments and

straightforward. go to governments and say you cannot regulate the design of a

say you cannot regulate the design of a hammer so that it can drive nails but

hammer so that it can drive nails but not kill a human but you can criminalize

not kill a human but you can criminalize the killing of a human by a hammer. So

the killing of a human by a hammer. So what's the equival

what's the equival if anyone produces an um um you know an

if anyone produces an um um you know an AI generated video or an AI generated

AI generated video or an AI generated content or an AI it has to be marked as

content or an AI it has to be marked as AI generated and it has to be you know

AI generated and it has to be you know we cannot start fooling each other. We

we cannot start fooling each other. We can you know we have to uh understand

can you know we have to uh understand certain limitations of unfortunately

certain limitations of unfortunately surveillance and spying and all of that.

surveillance and spying and all of that. So the the the the correct frameworks of

So the the the the correct frameworks of how far are we going to let AI go,

how far are we going to let AI go, right? We have to go to our investors

right? We have to go to our investors and business people and ask for one

and business people and ask for one simple thing and say do not invest in an

simple thing and say do not invest in an AI you don't want your daughter to be at

AI you don't want your daughter to be at the receiving end of. It's as simple as

the receiving end of. It's as simple as that. you know, all of the of the

that. you know, all of the of the virtual vice, all of the porn, all of

virtual vice, all of the porn, all of the, you know, sex robots, all of the

the, you know, sex robots, all of the autonomous weapons, all of the, you

autonomous weapons, all of the, you know, the uh trading platforms that are

know, the uh trading platforms that are completely wiping out the the legitimacy

completely wiping out the the legitimacy of of the markets, everything.

of of the markets, everything. Autonomous weapons.

Autonomous weapons. Oh my god.

Oh my god. People make the case, I've heard the

People make the case, I've heard the founders of these autonomous weapon

founders of these autonomous weapon companies make the case that it's

companies make the case that it's actually saving lives because you don't

actually saving lives because you don't have to

have to That is Would you want Do you really

That is Would you want Do you really want to believe that?

want to believe that? I'm just representing their point of

I'm just representing their point of view to play devil's advocate, Mo. They

view to play devil's advocate, Mo. They they said I heard an interview I was

they said I heard an interview I was looking at this and one of the CEOs of

looking at this and one of the CEOs of one of the autonomous weapons companies

one of the autonomous weapons companies said we now don't need to send soldiers.

said we now don't need to send soldiers. So which which lives do we save our

So which which lives do we save our soldiers but then but because we send

soldiers but then but because we send the machine all the way over there.

the machine all the way over there. Let's kill a million instead of

Let's kill a million instead of Yeah. Listen, I tend to be it goes back

Yeah. Listen, I tend to be it goes back to what I said about the steam engine in

to what I said about the steam engine in the cold. I actually think you'll just

the cold. I actually think you'll just have more war if there's less of a cost.

have more war if there's less of a cost. 100%.

100%. Just like

Just like and and more war if you have less of an

and and more war if you have less of an explanation to give to your people.

explanation to give to your people. Yeah. The people get mad when they lose

Yeah. The people get mad when they lose American lives. They get less mad when

American lives. They get less mad when they lose a piece of metal. So, I think

they lose a piece of metal. So, I think that's probably logical.

that's probably logical. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So, I've got a plaque.

Okay. So, okay. So, I've got a plaque. Got the tools thing. I'm going to spend

Got the tools thing. I'm going to spend more time outside. I'm going to lobby

more time outside. I'm going to lobby the government to be more aware of this

the government to be more aware of this and conscious of this. Okay. And I I

and conscious of this. Okay. And I I know that there's some government

know that there's some government officials that listen to the show

officials that listen to the show because they they they tell me when when

because they they they tell me when when they when they um when I have a chance

they when they um when I have a chance to speak to them. So, it's um useful.

to speak to them. So, it's um useful. We're all in a lot of chaos. We're all

We're all in a lot of chaos. We're all unable to imagine what's possible.

unable to imagine what's possible. I I think I suspend disbelief. And I

I I think I suspend disbelief. And I actually heard Elon Musk say that in an

actually heard Elon Musk say that in an interview. He said he was asked about AI

interview. He said he was asked about AI and he paused for for a haunting 11

and he paused for for a haunting 11 seconds and looked at the interviewer

seconds and looked at the interviewer and then made a remark about how he

and then made a remark about how he thinks he's suspended his own disbelief.

thinks he's suspended his own disbelief. And I think suspending disbelief in this

And I think suspending disbelief in this regard means just like cracking on with

regard means just like cracking on with your life and hoping it'll be okay. And

your life and hoping it'll be okay. And that's kind of what

that's kind of what Yeah. I I I I absolutely believe that it

Yeah. I I I I absolutely believe that it will be okay.

will be okay. Yeah.

Yeah. For some of us, it will be very tough

For some of us, it will be very tough for others.

for others. Who's it going to be tough for?

Who's it going to be tough for? Those who lose their jobs, for example,

Those who lose their jobs, for example, who those who are at the receiving end

who those who are at the receiving end of autonomous weapons that are falling

of autonomous weapons that are falling on their head for two years in a row.

Okay. So the the the best thing I can do is to put pressure on governments to to

is to put pressure on governments to to not regulate the AI but to establish

not regulate the AI but to establish clearer parameters on the use of the AI.

clearer parameters on the use of the AI. Yes. Okay.

Yes. Okay. Yes. But I I think the bigger picture is

Yes. But I I think the bigger picture is to put pressure on governments to

to put pressure on governments to understand that there is a limit to

understand that there is a limit to which people will stay silent.

which people will stay silent. Okay. and that we can continue to enrich

Okay. and that we can continue to enrich our rich friends as long as we don't

our rich friends as long as we don't lose everyone else on the on the on the

lose everyone else on the on the on the path.

path. Okay.

Okay. Okay. And that as a government who is

Okay. And that as a government who is supposed to be by the people for the

supposed to be by the people for the people the beautiful promise of

people the beautiful promise of democracy that we're rarely seeing

democracy that we're rarely seeing anymore,

anymore, that government needs to get to the

that government needs to get to the point where it thinks about the people.

point where it thinks about the people. One of the most um interesting ideas

One of the most um interesting ideas that's been in my head for the last

that's been in my head for the last couple of weeks since I spoke to that

couple of weeks since I spoke to that physicist about consciousness who said

physicist about consciousness who said pretty much what you said. This idea

pretty much what you said. This idea that actually there's four people in

that actually there's four people in this room right now and that actually

this room right now and that actually we're all part of the same

we're all part of the same consciousness.

consciousness. All one of it. Yeah.

All one of it. Yeah. And we're just consciousness looking at

And we're just consciousness looking at the world through four different bodies

the world through four different bodies to better understand itself in the

to better understand itself in the world. And then he talked to me about

world. And then he talked to me about religious doctrines, about love thy

religious doctrines, about love thy neighbor, about how Jesus was the, you

neighbor, about how Jesus was the, you know, God's son, the Holy Spirit and how

know, God's son, the Holy Spirit and how we're all each other and how treat

we're all each other and how treat others how you want to be treated.

others how you want to be treated. Really did get my head and I I started

Really did get my head and I I started to really think about this idea that

to really think about this idea that actually maybe the game of life is just

actually maybe the game of life is just to do exactly that is to treat others

to do exactly that is to treat others how you wish to be treated. Maybe if I

how you wish to be treated. Maybe if I just did that, maybe if I just did that,

just did that, maybe if I just did that, I

I I would have all the answers.

I would have all the answers. I swear to you, it's really that simple.

I swear to you, it's really that simple. I mean I I you know Hannah and I we

I mean I I you know Hannah and I we still live between London and and Dubai.

still live between London and and Dubai. Okay. And I travel the whole world

Okay. And I travel the whole world evangelizing what I, you know, what I uh

evangelizing what I, you know, what I uh um want to change the world around and I

um want to change the world around and I build startups and I write books and I

build startups and I write books and I make documentaries and and sometimes I

make documentaries and and sometimes I just tell myself

just tell myself I I just want to go hug her honestly,

I I just want to go hug her honestly, you know, I just want to take my

you know, I just want to take my daughter to a trip.

daughter to a trip. and and in a very very very interesting

and and in a very very very interesting way when you really ask people deep

way when you really ask people deep inside

inside that's what we want and I'm not saying

that's what we want and I'm not saying that's all that's the only thing we want

that's all that's the only thing we want but it's probably the thing we want the

but it's probably the thing we want the most

most and yet we're not trained you and I and

and yet we're not trained you and I and most of us were not trained to trust

most of us were not trained to trust life enough to say let's do more of this

and I think as a universal. So Hannah's working on this beautiful book uh of the

working on this beautiful book uh of the feminine and the masculine you know in a

feminine and the masculine you know in a very very you know beautiful way and and

very very you know beautiful way and and her her view is very straightforward.

her her view is very straightforward. She basically of course like we all know

She basically of course like we all know the abundant masculine that we have in

the abundant masculine that we have in our world today is unable to recognize

our world today is unable to recognize that for life at large.

that for life at large. Right? And and so you know maybe if we

Right? And and so you know maybe if we allowed the leaders to understand that

allowed the leaders to understand that if we took all of humanity and put it as

if we took all of humanity and put it as one person

one person that one person wants to be hugged

that one person wants to be hugged and if we had a role to offer to that

and if we had a role to offer to that one humanity

one humanity it's not another yacht.

it's not another yacht. Are you religious? I'm

Are you religious? I'm very religious. Yeah.

very religious. Yeah. But you don't support a particular

But you don't support a particular religion.

religion. I support I I follow what I call the

I support I I follow what I call the fruit salad. What's the free salad?

fruit salad. What's the free salad? You know, I I I came at a point in time

You know, I I I came at a point in time and found that there were quite a few

and found that there were quite a few beautiful gold nuggets in every religion

beautiful gold nuggets in every religion and a ton of crap, right? And so in my

and a ton of crap, right? And so in my analogy to myself, that was like 30

analogy to myself, that was like 30 years ago. I said, "Look, it's like

years ago. I said, "Look, it's like someone giving you a basket of apples,

someone giving you a basket of apples, two good ones and four bad ones. Keep

two good ones and four bad ones. Keep the good ones." Right? And so basically,

the good ones." Right? And so basically, I take two apples, two oranges, two

I take two apples, two oranges, two strawberries, two bananas, and and I

strawberries, two bananas, and and I make a fruit salad. That's my view of

make a fruit salad. That's my view of religion.

religion. You take from every religion the good

You take from every religion the good from everyone. And there are so many

from everyone. And there are so many beautiful gold nuggets.

beautiful gold nuggets. And you believe in a god.

And you believe in a god. I 100% believe there is a divine being

I 100% believe there is a divine being here.

here. A divine being.

A divine being. A designer I call it. So if if this was

A designer I call it. So if if this was a video game, there is a game designer.

a video game, there is a game designer. And you're not positing whether that's a

And you're not positing whether that's a man in the sky with a beard.

man in the sky with a beard. Definitely not a man in the sky. a man

Definitely not a man in the sky. a man in I mean I with all all due respect to

in I mean I with all all due respect to you know religions that believe that uh

you know religions that believe that uh all of spacetime and everything in it is

all of spacetime and everything in it is unlike everything outside spacetime and

unlike everything outside spacetime and so if some divine designer designs

so if some divine designer designs spacetime it looks like nothing in

spacetime it looks like nothing in spacetime.

spacetime. So it's not it's not even physical in

So it's not it's not even physical in nature. It's not it's not gendered. It's

nature. It's not it's not gendered. It's not bound by time. It's not, you know,

not bound by time. It's not, you know, these are all characters of the creation

these are all characters of the creation of spacetime.

of spacetime. Do we need to believe in something

Do we need to believe in something transcendent like that to be happy? Do

transcendent like that to be happy? Do you think

you think I have to say uh there are lots of

I have to say uh there are lots of evidence

evidence that uh relating to someone bigger than

that uh relating to someone bigger than yourself

yourself uh makes the journey a lot more

uh makes the journey a lot more interesting and a lot more rewarding.

interesting and a lot more rewarding. I've been thinking a lot about this idea

I've been thinking a lot about this idea that we need to level up like that. So

that we need to level up like that. So level up from myself to like my family

level up from myself to like my family to my community to maybe my nation to

to my community to maybe my nation to maybe the world and then something

maybe the world and then something trans. Yeah.

trans. Yeah. And then if there's a level missing

And then if there's a level missing there people seem to have some kind of

there people seem to have some kind of dysfunction.

dysfunction. So imagine a world where when I was

So imagine a world where when I was younger I I was born in Egypt and for a

younger I I was born in Egypt and for a very long time the slogans I heard in

very long time the slogans I heard in Egypt made me believe I'm Egyptian

Egypt made me believe I'm Egyptian right? And then I went to Dubai and I

right? And then I went to Dubai and I said no no no I'm a Middle Eastern. And

said no no no I'm a Middle Eastern. And then in Dubai there were lots of you

then in Dubai there were lots of you know Pakistanis and Indonesians and so

know Pakistanis and Indonesians and so on. I said no no no I'm part of the 1.4

on. I said no no no I'm part of the 1.4 four billion Muslims. And by that logic,

four billion Muslims. And by that logic, I immediately said, "No, no, I'm human.

I immediately said, "No, no, I'm human. I'm part of everyone." Imagine if you

I'm part of everyone." Imagine if you just suddenly say, "Oh, I'm divine. I'm

just suddenly say, "Oh, I'm divine. I'm part of universal consciousness. All

part of universal consciousness. All beings, all living beings, including AI,

beings, all living beings, including AI, if it ever becomes alive."

if it ever becomes alive." And my dog

And my dog and your dog. I'm I'm part of all of

and your dog. I'm I'm part of all of this

this tapestry of beautiful interactions

tapestry of beautiful interactions that are a lot less serious than the

that are a lot less serious than the balance sheets and equity profiles that

balance sheets and equity profiles that we create

we create that are so simple so simple in terms of

that are so simple so simple in terms of you know people know that you and I know

you know people know that you and I know each other so they always ask me you

each other so they always ask me you know how is Steven like and I go like

know how is Steven like and I go like you may have a million expressions of

you may have a million expressions of him. I think he's a great guy, right?

him. I think he's a great guy, right? You know, of course I have opinions of

You know, of course I have opinions of you. You know, sometimes I go like, oh,

you. You know, sometimes I go like, oh, too shrewd, right? Sometimes to, you

too shrewd, right? Sometimes to, you know, sometimes I go like, oh, too

know, sometimes I go like, oh, too focused on the business. Fine. But core,

focused on the business. Fine. But core, if you really simplify it, great guy,

if you really simplify it, great guy, right? And really, if we just look at

right? And really, if we just look at life that way, it's so simple. It's so

life that way, it's so simple. It's so simple. If we just stop all of those

simple. If we just stop all of those fights and all of those ideologies,

it's so simple. Just living fully, loving, feeling compassion,

loving, feeling compassion, you know, trying to find our happiness,

you know, trying to find our happiness, not our success.

not our success. I should probably go check on my dog.

I should probably go check on my dog. Go check on your dog. I'm really

Go check on your dog. I'm really grateful for the time we keep we keep

grateful for the time we keep we keep doing longer and longer.

doing longer and longer. I know. I know. I just it's so crazy how

I know. I know. I just it's so crazy how I could keep just keep honestly I could

I could keep just keep honestly I could just keep talking and talking because I

just keep talking and talking because I have so many I love reflecting these

have so many I love reflecting these questions on to you because because of

questions on to you because because of the way that you think. So

the way that you think. So yeah today

yeah today today was a difficult conversation.

today was a difficult conversation. Anyway, thank you for having me.

Anyway, thank you for having me. We have a closing tradition. What three

We have a closing tradition. What three things do you do you do that make your

things do you do you do that make your brain better and three things that make

brain better and three things that make it worse?

three things that make it better and worse.

worse. So, one of my favorite exercises, what I

So, one of my favorite exercises, what I call meet Becky, that makes my brain

call meet Becky, that makes my brain better. So, while meditation always

better. So, while meditation always tells you to try and calm your brain

tells you to try and calm your brain down and keep it within parameters of I

down and keep it within parameters of I can focus on my breathing and so on,

can focus on my breathing and so on, meet me Becky is the opposite. You know,

meet me Becky is the opposite. You know, I call my brain Becky. A lot of people

I call my brain Becky. A lot of people know that. So, so me meet Becky is to

know that. So, so me meet Becky is to actually let my brain go loose and

actually let my brain go loose and capture every thought. So I I normally

capture every thought. So I I normally would try to do that every couple of

would try to do that every couple of weeks or so and then what happens is it

weeks or so and then what happens is it suddenly is on a paper and when it's on

suddenly is on a paper and when it's on paper you just suddenly look at it and

paper you just suddenly look at it and say oh my god that's so stupid and you

say oh my god that's so stupid and you scratch it out

scratch it out right or oh my god this needs action and

right or oh my god this needs action and you actually plan something and and it's

you actually plan something and and it's quite interesting that the more you

quite interesting that the more you allow your brain to give you thoughts

allow your brain to give you thoughts and you listen. So the two rules is you

and you listen. So the two rules is you acknowledge every thought and you never

acknowledge every thought and you never repeat one.

repeat one. Okay. So the more you listen and and

Okay. So the more you listen and and say, "Okay, I heard you." You know, you

say, "Okay, I heard you." You know, you think I'm fat. What else? And you know,

think I'm fat. What else? And you know, eventually your brain starts to slow

eventually your brain starts to slow down and then eventually starts to

down and then eventually starts to repeat thoughts and then it goes into

repeat thoughts and then it goes into total silence. Beautiful practice. I uh

total silence. Beautiful practice. I uh I don't trust my brain anymore. So

I don't trust my brain anymore. So that's actually a really interesting

that's actually a really interesting practice. So I debate a lot of what my

practice. So I debate a lot of what my brain tells me. I debate what my

brain tells me. I debate what my tendencies and ideologies are. Okay. I

tendencies and ideologies are. Okay. I think one of the most uh again in in my

think one of the most uh again in in my uh love story with Hannah, I get to

uh love story with Hannah, I get to question a lot of what I believed was

question a lot of what I believed was who I am even at this age. Okay. And and

who I am even at this age. Okay. And and that goes really deep and it really is

that goes really deep and it really is quite a it's it's quite interesting to

quite a it's it's quite interesting to debate not object but debate what your

debate not object but debate what your mind believes. I think that's very very

mind believes. I think that's very very useful. And the third is I've actually

useful. And the third is I've actually quadrupled my investment time. So I used

quadrupled my investment time. So I used to do an hour a day of reading when I

to do an hour a day of reading when I was younger every single day like going

was younger every single day like going to the gym. And then it became an hour

to the gym. And then it became an hour and a half, two hours. Now I do four

and a half, two hours. Now I do four hours a day.

hours a day. Four hours a day. It is impossible to

Four hours a day. It is impossible to keep up. The world is moving so fast.

keep up. The world is moving so fast. And so that these are uh these are the

And so that these are uh these are the good things that I do. The bad things is

good things that I do. The bad things is I don't give it enough time to to really

I don't give it enough time to to really uh slow down. Uh unfortunately I'm

uh slow down. Uh unfortunately I'm constantly rushing like you are. I'm

constantly rushing like you are. I'm constantly traveling. I have picked up a

constantly traveling. I have picked up a bad habit because of the 4 hours a day

bad habit because of the 4 hours a day of spending more time on screens. That's

of spending more time on screens. That's really really bad for my brain and I uh

really really bad for my brain and I uh this is a very demanding question. What

this is a very demanding question. What else is really bad? Um

else is really bad? Um uh

uh yeah, I've not been taking enough care

yeah, I've not been taking enough care of my health recently, my physical body

of my health recently, my physical body health. I had uh you remember I told you

health. I had uh you remember I told you I had a very bad uh sciatic pain

I had a very bad uh sciatic pain and so I couldn't go to the gym enough

and so I couldn't go to the gym enough and accordingly that's not very healthy

and accordingly that's not very healthy for your brain in general.

for your brain in general. Man, thanks. Thank you for having me.

Man, thanks. Thank you for having me. That was a lot of things to talk about.

That was a lot of things to talk about. Thanks, Steve.

This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to the show

bit. 53% of you that listen to the show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the

regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So, could I ask you for a favor?

show. So, could I ask you for a favor? If you like the show and you like what

If you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us,

we do here and you want to support us, the free simple way that you can do just

the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button.

that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do

And my commitment to you is if you do that, then I'll do everything in my

that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that

power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single

this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback.

week. We'll listen to your feedback. We'll find the guests that you want me

We'll find the guests that you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do

to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. We

what we do. Thank you so much. We launched these conversation cards and

launched these conversation cards and they sold out and we launched them again

they sold out and we launched them again and they sold out again. We launched

and they sold out again. We launched them again and they sold out again

them again and they sold out again because people love playing these with

because people love playing these with colleagues at work, with friends at

colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family. And we've

home, and also with family. And we've also got a big audience that use them as

also got a big audience that use them as journal prompts. Every single time a

journal prompts. Every single time a guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they

guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they leave a question for the next guest in

leave a question for the next guest in the diary. And I've sat here with some

the diary. And I've sat here with some of the most incredible people in the

of the most incredible people in the world. And they've left all of these

world. And they've left all of these questions in the diary. And I've ranked

questions in the diary. And I've ranked them from one to three in terms of the

them from one to three in terms of the depth. One being a starter question. And

depth. One being a starter question. And level three, if you look on the back

level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three, becomes a

here, this is a level three, becomes a much deeper question that builds even

much deeper question that builds even more connection. If you turn the cards

more connection. If you turn the cards over and you scan that QR code, you can

over and you scan that QR code, you can see who answered the card and watch the

see who answered the card and watch the video of them answering it in real time.

video of them answering it in real time. So, if you would like to get your hands

So, if you would like to get your hands on some of these conversation cards, go

on some of these conversation cards, go to the diary.com or look at the link in

to the diary.com or look at the link in the description below.

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YouTube Transcript:Ex-Google Exec (WARNING): The Next 15 Years Will Be Hell Before We Get To Heaven! - Mo Gawdat

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Ex-Google Exec (WARNING): The Next 15 Years Will Be Hell Before We Get To Heaven! - Mo Gawdat