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The Modern Sex Work Debate - Bonnie Blue & Louise Perry (4K)

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This conversation explores the unusual psychology and motivations of a highly successful, seemingly unbothered sex worker, contrasting her experiences and perspectives with those who view the industry through a lens of trauma and distress. It delves into the societal implications of sexual liberation and the commodification of sex.

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Louise, why were you interested in

sitting down with Bonnie?

>> I find it really interesting. I think

that a lot of just having talked to women

women >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> about doing this conversation,

the response from so many women is I

think something like more curiosity. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Like interested in you, confused by you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And wondering, I mean, the

main thing that I'm hoping that to learn

about you today, cuz I've about your

work, is your psychology, your

personality, what it is about you that's

led you to do this

>> because I get the impression from having

watched interviews with you and so on

>> that actually I over the years I've

interviewed loads and loads of women or

spoken to loads and loads of women

who've been in the sex industry in

various ways, whether that's porn or

>> prostitution or brothel, street walking,

whatever. And every single case they've

talked about distress, trauma or having

a horrible time like to varying degrees. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> You don't talk about that. And I think

that you're telling the truth.

>> I think actually you don't find this

work causes you psychological harm. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And I guess I want to find out why. I

think that's a really interesting question.

question.

>> Yeah. No, I think it's good cuz everyone

always assumes and even when I say

multiple times, I'm not traumatized.

have not had a bad upbringing. Everyone

thinks I'm lying. And it's really not

the case. And it's terrible for some

people, unfortunately, they've had a bad

upbringing or terrible things have

happened. But for me, I've just chosen

to do this.

>> How familiar are you with Louise's work?

Do you know what she writes about? Are

you familiar with any of the background? I'm

I'm

>> not. Okay. How would you What's a 30,000

foot view to explain to to Bonnie sort

of your philosophical underpinnings?

>> So, I guess I'm coming at this as a

conservative. Yeah. And I've uh I mean I

wrote a book called the case against the

sexual revolution. I'm generally

critical of the sexual revolution and porn.

porn.

>> Um I worked in a rape crisis center

before I became a journalist which I

guess has informed my sounds very bless you.

you.

>> And I my general view on the sex

industry is like very negative.

>> So we I we're going to come at this from

different perspectives. But I do like

I'm guessing that a lot of people

listening are going to assume that I'm

going to try and like uncover trauma in

you or I'm going to try and like break

through the

>> You'd waste your time.

>> And I I think I actually think that's

right. And that's part of the reason I'm

interested in I'm more interested in

talking to you than I would be to say

Lily Phillips. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz I think that Lily to me and to a lot

of people, I think it's clear that Lily

is actually suffering quite a lot and is

having a hard time.

>> She seems traumatized,

>> right? which is in a way less the less

interesting story.

>> It's more obvious.

>> Yeah. And it is horrible. Like I'm very

lucky and fortunate to be in the

position I'm in because I'm not

traumatized. I'm not upset. I'm not

distressed. But I think for a lot of

people and especially a lot of sex

workers, they're completely out of their

comfort zone or they're doing things for

money and views or unfortunately they've

had a bad upbringing which has led them

to be a sex worker. And it is terrible

and it is horrible. Um, and it's not

always the nicest of industries for most people.

people.

>> Would you advise Lily to stop?

>> Um, yeah. I think if you're going to

keep crying and upset and it's

destroying your family, there's some

things which are a lot more valuable

than money and views. Um, the biggest

thing in life and it's so simple is to

be happy. And if you're not happy, why

do something? Because yes, you could be

driving fancy cars and you know, you

could wear flashy clothes, but if you're

not happy, well, then what is it all

for? Like as long as each day I'm waking

up happy and I'm going to sleep happy,

I'll be proud of myself. Other people

might be disgusted in me and I accept

that. But for me, as long as I'm happy,

then that's okay.

>> What bit of it makes you happy of what

you do?

>> It's a mixture. There's not one thing.

It's not like, oh, it's the orgasm. Oh,

it's the money. It's the it's the views. Um,

Um,

the main part of it is the life I live

now, both inside of work and outside.

like I get to travel the world. I go on

trips I would have dreamed of. Um I get

to spend so much more time with my

family and I don't feel disgusting when

I'm at work or when I'm filming. I'm

surrounded with men which are giving me

compliments and it gives me a massive

confidence boost. So

there's no set answer of what makes me

happy. It's there's no part of my job I

don't really enjoy. Like yes it can

become tiring. It can be hard work at

times, but no one becomes successful or

lives a really happy life without facing

some challenges.

>> Would you I mean something I've often

wondered about with anyone on Only Fans. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Is you could presumably have landed a

rich husband.

>> Like if you had set that as your object,

you're like, I want to live a luxurious

life. Fair enough.

>> You could have made that your goal to be

like the most successful gold digger in

the world and you would have achieved

all of that. the travel, the living

somewhere lovely, all of this without

the sex.

>> I see them as more of a sex worker than

me because they're using their sex

appeal. They're using sex to pleasure

their partner. Their partner is then

going to fund their lifestyle. Their

partner is then going to pay for

holidays, fancy clothes. They're using

sex just like I am. However, I'm not

afraid to admit I use sex to get what I

want. Whereas those people become very

snobby, very uptight. They look down on

most people. Yeah, they're still using

their holes to pay their bills. It's

just someone else is doing it, but I'm independent.

independent.

>> So, you're like the more more honest,

more authentic version of that.

>> For sure. Like, there's nothing I lie

about. There's nothing I you know,

people call me [ __ ] slag, whatever,

and I accept that. And people call me a

sex worker because I am. Whereas, if I

was to say, "Look, you've married your

husband purely for his money. In return,

you give him sex." They'd like, "No, I'm

not a sex worker." If they stopped

giving him sex, he's going to leave and

go elsewhere. But they can't. They need

they need his money.

>> So is it also the vi vulnerability like

you I mean I think at this point you've

earned so much money

>> you're set up for life I would guess.

Whereas I suppose a woman with a rich

husband at any moment he could just pull

the rug.

>> They're on contract.

>> Yeah. They've got a longer shift than I

have. But I could stop. They can't.

>> Yeah. Do you do you think you ever will stop?

stop?

>> Possibly. But I don't have a plan

anymore. And for most people that sounds

really stressful. But I used to have the

most structured life. I knew exactly

what I'd be doing on a Tuesday midday.

Where'd I'd be getting lunch from? And

now I don't have a plan. Because

sometimes when you have a plan, you

become so fixated on the future, what

one year looks like, what 2 years, 5

years down the line looks like. And then

you dismiss everyday happiness. You

become so fixated on what the future

looks like. You forget to live your life

and live in this moment in time. So I

can't say, "Oh, it's going to be 5 years

or 10 years." Because it might be in one

year I no longer enjoy it, so I'll stop.

Um, so there's there's no set set plan

and that's okay. I much prefer my life

now. Even though I don't know what or

where I'm going to be tomorrow, let

alone five years. And you can't always

say like when you was young, you'd enjoy

going to the park and then when you're a

bit older, you might enjoy some other

interest. And when then goes to bird

watching like it always varies. So I

can't say what's going to make me happy

now is going to make me happy in 10 years.

years.

Do you think it would be difficult for

you to stop given that you've attached

so much of your notoriety and sense of

identity to this thing that

if you've made a big song and dance

about this is what I want to do

>> that if you no longer want to do it

there is going to be this uh social

consistency bias this sort of momentum

that's behind you where you go [ __ ] like

every person that said she's not built

for it or this isn't going to be right

I'm going to have to now do this U-turn

whether it is self-generated or

externally imposed.

>> Does that make sense? That you have this

sense of obligation to what you promised

in the past about what you wanted right now.

now. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Um I imagine that

>> even you would struggle. There's going

to be a sense of [ __ ] like I've got this

I've got this uh weird obligation

identity obligation that I used to have.

>> Um I completely understand where you're

coming from, but no, because I don't

care. I don't really get peer pressured

into doing anything. If I think

something, I'll do it. And if I don't

want to do something, I'm very stubborn

and I won't do it. So, and I've always

said I might not be doing it in 10

years. I might be doing it in 10 years.

It depends if it makes me happy or not.

Um, and even if I sat here today and

said, I'm definitely doing this in 10

years. And then if in 5 years I change

my mind, that's fine because I'm in

control. And the big difference between

me and other sex workers is I understand

my limits. I understand my body and what

I can take or what I can't take. So I'm

never left distressed or I'm never left

thinking that was too much for me to

handle because you know I sort of know

what I can and can't do.

>> Well, have you ever hit your limit?

>> Not yet. >> Right.

>> Right.

>> Okay. Tell me about that.

>> I did a really big scene in America. So

I'd always done obviously I did the

thousand in January and then I did one

in the US in like March or April um with

50 porn stars and their penises are a

lot bigger than the average person. the

way they have sex, the way it's

incredibly rough at times. And that was

hard. And I went into it quite naive. I

was thinking, well, I've done a

thousand. What's 50? But that 50 was

really, it was really hard.

>> How so?

>> Just very intense. Um, it was rough.

There was times where like I could not

see at all. Like my eyes were completely

filled with fluids. Um, and yeah, there

was some positions which I was like,

"No, I need to switch this up. It's

actually feeling, you know, a bit

painful." Um, but that was fine as long

as I'm able to say, "Hey, I need to

switch this position up." That you could

be having sex with one person sometimes.

And you think, "Okay, no, my legs are

flinching. I need to switch this." Um,

but you have to speak up. You can't sort

of sit there and go through something

painful and then blame everyone else for

you being in pain. Cuz if you don't tell

someone it hurts, then how are they

going to know? You say a bit painful. I

mean, I think most women are like bowled

over the thought of how painful it would be.

be.

>> Yeah. Do you like do you think that

you're unusual like not wanting to get into

into >> anatomy?

>> anatomy?

>> Yeah. Although it feels funny saying

blue. Um do you have like more physical

endurance do you think than most women?

>> No. I mean I've always said I've been

very athletic. I've always been quite

fit and healthy. Um but no, like when I

first started I didn't really understand

what turned me on and what I enjoyed a

lot more. Like when I'm enjoying it I

find I'm able to have sex a lot rougher.

So now if I need to take more breaks, I

will. I don't feel panicked to sort of

know what I'm I don't ever think I need

to know what I'm doing right now. If I

think, you know what, actually, could I

have someone to lick me out for 5

minutes before we go again? I'll happily

speak up and say that. So,

>> but I do think I have um a good level of endurance.

endurance.

>> How about emotional endurance? Because

another thing that a lot of women will

think is

>> like frankly a lot of these guys are

gross. Like I've seen I've seen videos

of your cues and of the guys who show to

the events and they they they can be

old, they can be fat. Like probably some

of them smell, I'm guessing. Like

>> honestly, everyone says this, but in

terms of the smell, like yeah, some of

them are skinny, some are fat, like some

are spotty, some aren't, but that's

normal. Like um in terms of smell,

genuinely, they never smell. And I think

it's because they're so nervous. They

know they're coming out links before

they show

>> 100%. They know they're coming to me

purely for sex. So they have showered

just before I came. They freshen up just

before they come in. So in terms of

smell, no. But even in terms of body

shapes, I used to say, "Oh, fat people

are lazy." Like they actually irritate

me. But then I when I became a sex

worker, I'd start to speak to these men

a lot more. Yeah, some of them are fat.

And I'd speak to them and realize

they're not necessarily fat all the time

because they're lazy. Their life is so

busy. They've got children now. They're

trying to pay bills. They're trying to

keep on top of things. And they can no

longer prioritize, you know, clean

eating all the time in the gym. So I

don't even judge the fat ones anymore,

but I used to.

>> But you don't get any sense of like

physically recoiling like I don't fancy

this man. You never get that.

>> Well, most women have a blue ski mask in

on. So in terms of face wise, no.

>> Yeah. I think if I really found someone

unattractive, the part I've struggled

with most is the kissing.

>> Um cuz to me that's very I don't know.

You connect a lot when you kiss someone.

>> But no, like I don't always even see

their face. And I know this is going to

repulse a lot of people, but I love the

fact it's like always a rotation. I

don't even always know I've had sex with

someone. I don't always know who's

inside of me. Um, but no, I don't get

repulsed. I sort of see everyone as

they're there for a reason. I don't know

what's happening behind their closed

doors and I'm there purely to give them

a good experience and that's all I sort

of focus on. Some of them I obviously

find more attractive than others. I

think bloody hell, you're hot. And then

other ones I'm like, oh, I wouldn't date

you. But even if you walk past someone

attractive in the street, that's not

what's going to make you come. It's the

way they are, their technique. And I can

remember when I was a full service

worker, one of my clients, he was a bit

bigger. I didn't find him attractive.

And if anything, he repulsed me a little

bit. He made me orgasm and I was like,

"Oh god, should I be disgusted in myself

that this guy that I don't find

attractive has just made me come?" And

then I realized it's not to do with

their looks, it's their technique and

how they treat me in the bedroom. that

you go to sleep with someone really

attractive and they're terrible and bad.

>> So you do have a threshold like

sometimes you will find men slightly

repulsive at least, but it's not so high

a threshold that basically everyone

obviously I look at different people and

think you're more attractive than the

other person. I prefer your body shape

to the other one. Like everyone's got

preferences and I know I have but I

never look at someone and think I don't

want you near me.

>> Interesting. I remember Rachel Moran who

is a she was um uh prostituted as

teenager in in Dublin.

>> Um she something that she says to women

to try and like help them to understand

what it's like to be um in prostitution

is imagine being on a bus or in a cafe

or something and look around every

single man in that room and think I have

to have sex with every single one of

these men like old, young, fat,

whatever. Um, and she she uses that as

the thought experiment for women because

overwhelmingly they respond like and

what's unusual about you is you don't respond.

respond.

>> Yeah. You actually

>> I think if they want smelly and like

stuff like that that really get me like

smell. I just think stick some deodorant

on or have a shower like >> Uhhuh.

>> Uhhuh.

>> But because they don't smell like that

was that's my biggest thing I think is

smell especially cuz they're going to be

in my mouth and I'm licking them. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But in terms of looks I really don't

judge and I probably used to. Um, but now

now

>> have you trained yourself out of it?

>> Not trained myself. I've spoke to them

for years now and hours on end. Like if

someone's got bad skin, it's not their

fault all the time. Sometimes it's cuz

they got a terrible diet and they're

lazy and they're not washing their face

and everything else. But some people

just have bad skin. Some people are

super skinny, some people are fat. And

I'm always very open-minded. And I think

that's allowed me to drop the judgment

and drop the you repulse me because I

might see someone really fat and some of

them come in with genuinely not even an

inch and they're massive and I can

barely find it. But I think you know

what? You've come to the event like this

might really boost your confidence. I

don't know. You might be really

stressing outside of this. You might be

having a bad life and there's probably a

reason of why you're so fat but I just

want to give you a good, you know,

>> very philanthropic in that way.

What do you think sex is for? Do you do

you think of it as something? Is it

sacred, relational, recreational,

nothing? Is it the same as as walking?

>> It's a hobby. It's fun. Um, and there's

not really much to it be like else I

think about it. Before I used to have a

really low body count prior to being a

sex worker. I couldn't imagine having

sex with someone unless I was dating

them or unless I imagined, you know, I

wasn't having sex on a first date. Now

it's within seconds. But to me now, sex

is just a It doesn't have to mean

something. I can still enjoy it. It's a

It's an orgasm and it's as simple as that.

that.

Before, how old were you when you became

a sex worker?

>> Uh 24. I'm doing two years, so 20.

>> And that was straight into fans?

>> Yeah. Well, I did cam for a couple of

weeks. Maybe for like two to four weeks

I did cam and that really boosted my

confidence. Um, and then I set up only

fans. So before then, you said you had a

low body count. You wouldn't do like

gang bangs off camera, right? Cuz that's

now your main thing. That's what you know.

know.

>> Yeah. So prior to that, I was married

and in a long-term relationship. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And so like where's this come from?

Where's this this massive change in your

sexual preferences?

>> Um, to start with money.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I didn't want to go back to

work. I used to work in recruitment,

long hours, restricted annual leave and

I live the same life as everybody else

and then they sit and complain about it. I

>> heard that you worked at Poundland when

you were youn.

>> Yes, I did. That was quite bad to be

honest. I can remember someone pissed in

a potty and gave it to me and I

>> Well, well, both the fact that it's

called Poundland and they pissed in a

potty, that was quite precient, I guess,

for the rest of your life.

>> Yeah, to be honest, I should uh use

that. But yeah, I used to be a waitress.

I was a dance teacher. Worked at

Poundland. just did anything for a bit

of a bit of money and I never really

cared what job I did. Like I worked at

Pound Stretcher cuz that job paid more

than all the other shops at the retail park.

park.

>> Other people wanted a job at McDonald's,

but my job paid nearly two pound extra

an hour.

>> So I've always been more bothered about

what life I can create outside of work

as opposed to being bothered that I had

to wear a pound stretcher outfit. Um,

but yeah, when I first started it was

money and I wanted flexibility in my

life because I knew going back into

recruitment when rush hour traffic

sitting there for 40 hours a week if not

longer and only having Saturday and

Sunday to myself and then Sundays tends

to be food shop cooking for the week and

your whole day is taken up before you

know it. So money and freedom was why I started.

started.

>> And so you hadn't previously been

sexually adventurous?

>> No. Like sex three times a week >> um

>> um

>> with your husband? Mhm. Yeah.

>> How how old were you when you lost virginity?

virginity? >> 13.

>> 13.

>> So that is quite young.

>> Young, but I've always been very grown

up for my age. So if I saw a 13year-old

now, some of them I'm like, "Oh my god,

I can't believe I even had sex at that

age." But I was very mature when I was 13.

13.

>> In terms of the the the group sex events

that you're known for now.

>> Yeah. Why did you start doing that? Was

it because it turns you on or was it

because there was like a niche in the market?

market?

>> It happened by accident to be honest,

the first one. Well, I don't just trip

into, you know, and end up in a gang

bang, but I started off doing things

like freshers and spring break. And I

was at spring break in March

last year. And loads of them had been

saying at the like at the hotel I was at

like, "Oh, I haven't had a chance to

speak with you yet. You've not replied

to my message." And I was leaving the

following day. So, I just shared my

hotel room number. I was like, "Look,

I'm going to be here. I leave at 10:00

a.m. tomorrow. Just queue up. Bring your

friends. Like, the door's going to be

open." And that just naturally ended up

in a gang bang. It got to like 3:00 4:00

a.m. I was really tired and I was like,

"Look, whoever's left in the queue,

look, just come all at once because like

I don't want to leave you waiting." And

that was the first time I did a gang

bang. And I realized it wasn't what I

thought. It wasn't dirty. It wasn't

disgusting. These guys were having a

laugh. They was high-fiving each other.

It was quite It was more funny than it

was sexy, to be honest. Some of them

couldn't get hard. Some of them was

finishing straight away. And I realized

I loved the environment it created. It

wasn't dirty. And I know people imagine

it that way, but it was really just a a

fun experience for me and those involved.

involved.

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>> How did you end up chasing the records?

So doing the hundred, doing the thousand.

thousand.

>> Um, so after that spring break, there

was a journalist who said like what's

next? Like what are you going to do

after this? cuz each time I was doing

these like spring break or freshes, my

numbers was going up and he was like,

"Well, why don't you do the world

record?" So, it was actually a

journalist Joe who sort of mentioned it

and I didn't think too much of it. I was

like, "Yeah, that sounds brilliant." But

I knew I wasn't big enough at the time

to get 900,000 people to be queuing up

and having sex with me cuz it's one

thing saying you're going to do it. The

organization behind it is probably the

biggest headache and the difficult part.

Um, so yeah, it was in the back of my

mind from March and as the months went

on, I continued to grow. My social media

got bigger. I was building a bigger name

for myself. So then that's why I did it

>> If you've got any questions, I can go on

and on.

>> I'm I'm happy watching this go back and

forth. It's girl on girl for now. Um,

>> I do like boy, girl, girl as well.

>> I'm setting this one out. I'm in the

corner. So I guess doing the big events

and like shocking people and one of the

things that you do in terms of your

social media strategy is you you troll

everyone right like and particularly you

often addressing women and like the

wives and girlfriends of these men and

really focus like

>> trying to get a rise out of people

trying to be controversial.

>> And one of the things again that I find

sort of

>> as a woman I find surprising and having

spoken to other women they also find it

surprising is that you don't seem to

mind women hating you.

>> It doesn't upset you. you don't feel

that need to be liked that most women do

feel. It's another way in which like

you've got the physical endurance,

you've got the low threshold for

disgust, you've got and you've got this

appetite for not notoriety.

>> Yeah. I don't hate women at all. I know

it can come across like I hate women and

that's honestly not the case at all. Um

but I say many times like women are very

easy to wind up at times and they're the

ones that spend more time on Tik Tok

than their husbands. So, if I'm using a

platform like Tik Tok, I'm going to

sometimes make my Tik Toks for women

because I know they're going to complain

about it. They're going to sit and watch

it and their husband is then going to

hear it. So, my videos when I do the Tik

Toks, even though it's aimed at women,

it's aimed because I know the husband's

going to hear about this one way or

another. And the things I say, it can

come across very harsh. I do believe

everything I say, but I will word it in

a very, I guess, rude way at times

because Tik Tok, you've got about 10

seconds before someone scrolls off that,

if not shorter. So, I'm going to say it

in the most brutal way possible to get

them watching the rest of that video.

>> Do you have many female friends?

>> Yes, I do. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Um, I know that can seem shocking or

people say, "What do you sleep with

their husband?" Or, "What do your

friends think about what you say?" Um,

but they hear like the long-winded

explanation of why I've said something

or like one of the big ones is, you

know, about husbands cheating and it was

never your husband is cheating on you.

It was just if you're not having sex

with him, he is probably going elsewhere

and I will happily sleep with him. But

it's never to say, look, I'm going to

turn up at your house and drag your

husband out out of your home.

>> Would you feel a particular way if you'd

found out that one of the people in the

ski mask had been the husband of one of

your friends?

Um, yeah, I would obviously feel bad

because I'd feel bad that their

relationship had broke down a lot sooner

before than what they would have

realized for him to have been at one of

my events. It clearly doesn't have a

good communication with his wife.

>> You see it as like a symptom of the

relationship in crisis rather than you

causing crisis.

>> You will have some idiots and some men

that will just cheat because they've

cheated and they've got two brain cells

if that. A lot of the time though, if

someone cheats, there's a reason. and

there's a lack of communication, a lack

of connection with that partner, it's

I'm not the one to blame. I've never

forced them to be there. All I've done

is put the message out and said, "Hey,

would you like to have sex with me?" No

one is forced. No one is, you know,

bribed to be there. No one's even paid.

>> Um, if a wife has ever been affected to

have sex with her husband, it sounds

rude, but it's they need to look in the

mirror. They need to look at the

communication they're having with their

partner. and I'm sorry they're in a

relationship that's not happy, but I'm

not the one that's ruined that marriage.

>> That's true. But we would you would be

able to say uh a person who's a

recovering alcoholic or a person who

just has a tendency toward addiction, it

is smarter for that person to not be

around alcohol all the time. And if

there was some imposition by the

government that put alcohol on every

street corner, this person would find it

more difficult to avoid that. It's far

easier to avoid temptation than it is to

like to keep yourself away from it than

than it is to stop feeling it altogether.

altogether.

>> Makes it very easy.

>> And the increased prevalence of this,

the increased advertising of this may

cause people to think, well, what what's

wrong with that? Like it's more it's

more easily available. I can put the ski

mask on. No one's going to find out.

>> For sure. It definitely is easy. Um I

literally share the location. You just

turn up. It'd honestly be easier for

them to cheat on a night owl, cheat when

they're at work because they know when

they turn up. Yes, they have a blue

scheme mask on, but they've got to bring

their ID. They've got to sign a consent

form. They've got to take their mask off

to fill in the consent form and fill in

the form. So, it's it'd be much easier

for them to cheat elsewhere. And I think

it's a lot more hurtful.

>> I'm not sure if it would be easier for

them to cheat elsewhere. I think uh

what's referred to in the industry as a

clean kill, which is one that has no

digital footprint when cheating on your

partner, um is

>> hard to give me a phone. we'll meet up

at the end of the night or there's the

room key to the hotel that you've used

or concerns about CCTV. I I get the

sense that a lot of guys would see ski

mask on, briefly take it off, fill the

thing in, put it back on and get to do

this as

repercussion, a repercussionfree way to

be able to cheat on their partner.

>> Yeah. And and I do get that. But for

them to have been there, there's a

reason. If someone was really happy in

their marriage, they they wouldn't they

wouldn't have turned up. But I'm going

to sort of contradict myself a little

bit because I think sometimes people

cheat. It's not cuz they don't love

their wife or their kids, but their wife

no longer has a high sex drive or

they've had children and they feel a bit

body conscious and no longer want to

have sex. And that's okay, but your

husband probably doesn't feel the same.

Your husband's probably still wanting

sex, and he doesn't want to sometimes

hurt you by saying he no longer feels

like he's being pleasured. So, he goes

elsewhere to have sex, meaningful sex.

He's just having it. He's not cheating.

He's just Well, he is, but it's not an

affair. It there's no text and there's

no emotional connection. Literally

coming to someone who's offering himself

up and then going back to you. Um, I

think there is times people cheat and

it's done not to hurt the wife, but if

anything the opposite, just to protect

them and want to keep them happy in

their own little bubble and not ever

sort of pressure them into saying,

"Look, hey, I I want sex from you else.

I'm going to go elsewhere."

>> Bonnie, I've heard you say that you

can't condemn porn stars with your right

hand while masturbating with your left hand.

hand.

>> What do you mean?

>> That if someone was to tweet and say,

"This is horrendous. How dare she do

that whilst also being a user of porn?"

That seems like a little bit of hypocrisy.

hypocrisy.

>> Is that a fair criticism to try and

square that circle in a way?

>> I think I think what you do, Bonnie, not

just in terms of the porn, but also in

your attitude towards money and towards

independence and like

>> you and actually egalitarianism. I mean,

when you talk about like I'll take any

man, I don't judge, whatever, there's

something very um progressive about that

politically, right? Like be super super

egalitarian. What you do is you actually

take a lot of these um ideas that are

present in the culture to their logical conclusion.

conclusion. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> You say, well, okay, you tell me the

culture says that it's fine to be

sexually liberated and to um prioritize

being an entrepreneur and to um not

worry about all these traditional

hang-ups and you basically take that to

it conclusion.

>> Take it to the extreme.

>> You do. And I think what I think what

happens a lot, one of the reasons I

think you sort of rile people up is a

lot of people who have a vague sense

that that stuff is all good and fine and

like they're kind of okay with sexual

freedom and they're kind of okay with

capitalism and and egalitarianism and

they see that taken to its extreme and

they go, "Oh, hang on. I don't like that."

that."

>> So you're saying that Bonnie is like the

reductio adabsum of the sexual revolution.

revolution.

>> Yeah. You hold up a mirror to the

culture is what it is.

>> Is it fair to say that Bonnie is just

the natural end result of modern

feminism? Yeah, as well as other things

too. But yeah, definitely I mean

definitely the idea of prioritizing

sexual liberation above all else and not

seeing I mean what you said about sex

being a hobby. I think that is an

important idea that come the only reason

we think that now is because we have um

reliable contraception. Obviously before

that you couldn't think of sex in that

way because it

>> well especially women like the

>> Exactly. Yeah. It's because the risks

are so high for them. Um but since the

sexual revolution we've come to think I

mean in a slightly schizophrenic way I

think that people actually often think

contradictory things but they often say

oh yeah whatever sex like as long as

everyone's consenting that's fine and

then they see you you doing exactly that

everyone in the in your queues is

consenting you're consenting

>> and they don't like it and one of the

reasons I think that you're such a

notorious figure is because you you

actually invite people to look at those

ideas and think, "Oh, wait. Maybe

actually that if I don't like what

Bonnie Blue is doing, do I actually

support sexual freedom?"

>> Yeah. Well, they sort of say one thing

and then contradict themselves within

two seconds. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And I always say not everyone should do

what I do and not everyone will enjoy it

and that's fine. Like I just think

especially as women, if you want to do

something, do it. As long as it's above

board and legal and everyone's

consenting, do it. Don't care about what

people are going to say. Don't care

about the backlash. Like care about the

backlash if you're going to struggle

dealing with it. But if something makes

you happy, especially as a woman, like

we're not restricted anymore. We can be independent.

independent.

>> Well, a lot of people would say it

shouldn't be legal. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Then they would try and stop you.

>> For sure. Everyone says I'm a, you know,

I groom them to have sex with me. Um,

and then there was a massive argument

because I don't pay the students I have

sex with and they said that's completely

wrong. But then if I'd have paid them,

they're suddenly a sex worker and then

there's bribery involved. So it's I

honestly can't win. And I think that's

why I just don't care so much as well

because if I do one thing, it's wrong.

And if I do the other, it's also wrong.

And one of the main hate comments I get

is, "Oh, if this was a guy, they'd be

arrested. If this was a guy, they'd be

in prison."

>> This is belly legal stuff.

>> H for sure. But teen category has always

been the most searched category in adult

content. Yeah.

>> But the only difference is it's always

been the males that have been older. So

all I've done is switch it. And now

suddenly these women that don't care

about these men saying they hate me

because they're so concerned that if

because if this was a guy they'd be

arrested and they think things should be

equal is it just look in the mirror,

Google, go online, you'll notice it's

always school girls dressed up. Even

when I was young for Halloween, we dress

up as sexy school girls. Like school

girl has always been a thing. And I'm

not saying it's right or wrong, but

don't cry about it being a school boy if

you've never had an issue with the

school girl. You do of course do stuff

with school girls as well.

>> Yeah. Which is quite

>> I don't have an issue with it. I never

said I have. Um and people had a massive

uproar when I did the school girl as

well. Yeah. Before it was an issue

because it was the school boy. So it's

like you know what I'll take both.

>> That's a good way to ensure that

equality is reached across the sexes. Is

it empowering that Bonnie can do this?

The right to say it's empowering. I mean

I I think that the whole

I don't like the word empowering. I

think I think the whole idea of it I

mean I think I think actually you

demonstrate the problems with that

>> with that whole idea that

>> you you clearly are being empowered

certainly financially. Yeah.

>> And in terms of independence and all the

stuff we've talked about. Um but

and I and I believe you when you say

that this is good for you and that

you're happy and you know and the men in

the queue are happy and whatever. I mean

there clearly there is collateral damage

in terms of the wives and girlfriends.

>> For sure.

>> I was going to ask have there been

people you know who say lost jobs or got

in trouble in some way from having come

to one of your events cuz often they're

not wearing masks.

>> For sure. Uh, no. And a lot of people

say when these are, you know, they're 18

or they don't know what they're doing or

they're going to make a mistake or

they're going to regress it when they

apply for a job. I've never known in a

job interview they say, "Hey, is this

your penis? Is this, you know, would you

enter in Bonnie Blue on this day?" Like,

they're not going to see that. Maybe if

you put your face next to mine, they

went for a job interview, it might come

up in question. But a lot of these

people are filming POV, especially the

students, and most of them don't show

their face. And even the ones that are

like, "Oh, I am happy to show my face."

If anything, I'll ask them not to

because I want them to feel really

confident. I want them to feel really

comfortable in the situation. Um, but

yeah, no one's going to give you a job

interview, get up the sex tape, and then

go, "That's your penis." And the other

benefit of of it is I sleep with so many

people, even if they know you slept with

me, they're not going to be able to

pinpoint your sex tape, or they're never

going to be able to prove it's you cuz I

always make sure unless they really,

really want their face out there, I keep

everything really confidential. M so

it's plausible that the amount of direct

collateral damage that you're doing is

quite low. I mean there presumably will

be some relationships that have failed

and so on but you but you would say that

that that's because they had already

failed and this was just the catalytic.

>> Yeah. And it's not to say he's failed.

Um some relationships just don't work

because as you grow older you become

different people. You have different

interests or different hobbies. Like

it's not because a relationship has

failed. Just sometimes you're no longer

meant to be with that person.

>> Sure. So, but the direct harm that

you're causing to yourself, to other

people, is is probably not that high.

So, then which which means that anyone

who um

wants to condemn you on the basis of you

harming people

>> struggles a little bit. It's actually

quite hard to point to someone who like

Bonnie Blue has hurt, right?

>> What do you think the damage is? Where

where is the damage coming into contact

with the world in your opinion?

>> So, I think the damage is cultural and

social. I think it's I think the damage

is bigger and kind of harder to pin

down. It's not like you can just point

to this person if if the only thing you

think that is important is consent then

you can't really point to a single

person and say yeah you know but that's

not my view of it. My view of it is that

there's like a um

you're contributing to a culture that

regards sex as a meaningless hobby and I

think that that's bad in a broader way.

I think you can have both though cuz I

feel like I have very meaningful sex and

then I have can have some sex but I

don't remember the name.

>> I've had some meaningful sex on camera

as well more when it's a boy girl scene

because you're able to focus a lot more.

It's a lot more intimate and you have a

great connection with them.

>> But each one of my either sex tapes or

sex events are very different. There's a

different meaning and a different

purpose of it. But yeah, with the damage

I sort of cause, it's always from women

speaking and saying how hurt they are.

even though I've never touched them,

I've never done anything, yet the people

that come to my events are nothing but

grateful, polite, and say they've had a

good experience. And a lot of these

women that say, you know, I'm damaging,

you skip two videos back and they're

giving me death threats. They're saying,

I want to turn up to one of Bonnie

Blue's events and leave a black and

blue. I want to make sure she leaves in

a coffin. And I'm like, you're the one

in the wrong. I've never hurt anybody

and I've never given anyone a death

threat or said, I'm going to beat you up

or leave you black and blue. I think

from what Louise is saying it is very

difficult to pinpoint okay if we work

very hard on consent and assume that

everyone is allowed to take radical

responsibility including you for what's

going on. Yeah, everybody is consenting

unless there is some situation where a

person is not fully of their mind or

whatever the term would be over the age

of consent. It is difficult to point at

the first order consequence of this but

maybe downstream there is something that

is moving the culture in a kind of

direction. So I guess an interesting

question on that is

>> can you imagine a world in which

anything happened that would make you

question what you're doing? Are there

any sort of consequences or

repercussions that you can think of that

would cause you to second guessess

>> the stuff that you're doing?

>> If the people I was having sex with was

coming to me with issues or saying look

it's ruined my life or I'm really hurt

by this or I regret it. it's a big

mistake. Instead, I just see the same

people a lot of the time at these

events. So, if the hate switched from

the women that don't know me and are

poorly educated switched to the men that

was at my events or the men I speak to

online, I would really reconsider the

way I do things and the way I approach

things. Um, but even with the whole

barely legal things in the students,

like the students themselves find it

really funny. Like they know they know

I'm not walking around the streets

going, "Oh my god, give me an

18year-old." They're walking around

going, "I'm barely legal." And it's they

find it funny cuz they're they're not

stupid. I mean, you've got some 18 years

that are 18 year olds that are, but you

can be stupid at any age. They see how

wound up cuz they're much better at

technology and Tik Tok and everything

than I am and especially their parents.

So, they see the backlash me saying

barely legal causes and they find it

funny. Like, I'll be walking down the

street sometimes. They're like, "I'm

barely legal. I'm a virgin. Can I get,

you know, can I skip the queue?" Um, so

the people that say I'm very damaging

towards 18 year olds and stuff, they're

actually more intelligent than these

people making the Tik Toks because they

know it's I'm not walking down the

street and I'm grabbing them out of

school or universities.

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wisdom.

So a concrete example of

yeah not causing this individual harm

but causing a wider kind of harm is when

you did the thousand in was it January? Yeah,

Yeah,

>> it happened at the same time and

obviously caused a lot of media response

at the same time that grooming gangs

were back in the news because of Elon

Musk talking about it primarily and then

there was a you know the wrangling over

whether there should be an inquiry and

all this kind of stuff

>> and some people pointed out at the time

>> it was not deliberate on your part. Um

but what it contributed to you being in

the news was this sense that British

women are [ __ ]

>> Mhm. And that obviously fed into this

whole discussion around grooming gangs

and the feeling that um the girls have

been asking for it. Well, you know, we

have this sexually liberated culture.

You know, that's obviously the really um

the really really unsympathetic view

that's taken towards the victims of

these gangs.

>> Do you feel like you end up feeding into

that view of what British women are like?

like?

>> No, cuz I mean I don't know how many

women are in the UK, but there's a lot

more than one. I'm one person out of millions.

millions.

>> You have this massive international reputation,

reputation,

>> for sure. But I also get told all the

time I was not normal. So I'm not

there's no part of me that believes I'm

to blame if UK people are being called

[ __ ] because I'm one person. I say look

this is what I consent to. This is what

I enjoy. Every single woman is so

different. I even do hundreds of Tik

Toks saying how lazy women are and how

much they don't want to give [ __ ] So

I highlight the fact they're not [ __ ]

They're quite the opposite.

>> I suppos I suppose that's true.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But yeah, it is. I've been asked

multiple times if I'm a cover up because

the same time I've done something,

something big's gone in the news and

unfortunately it's been sort of pushed

down because my press has, you know,

been spoken about more and that's

terrible and these much more concerning

things in the world to be highlighted

and talked about.

>> Okay. You're saying that your sex events

are false flags to try and drown out

some more deserving story. Okay.

>> I've been asked if I was a spy before as

well. Um, but yeah, like it's sometimes

the timing is bad and I'm, you know,

it's really unfortunate that sometimes

my stories have been spoken about more

than things that are honestly dangerous

and damaging on society. So your your

concern is there's a kind of

propagandistic effect of the type of

pornography coming out of the UK that

might make it more attractive for

foreign people to come here or for

people who don't fully understand the

culture to have an a sense they haven't

been able to do what you've said which

is I keep on being told that I'm not

normal. Something tells me that it isn't

the people who don't have an in-depth

understanding of what the culture is

because the only way they can say that's

not normal is to have something to frame

it against. This is normal. This is not

normal. This is an outlier. But if all

you see is the tiny tip of the iceberg

when you're not delving that deep into

culture, you just see what is the

biggest story which happens to be you.

And if it's consistently to be honest,

you and Lily Phillips like

you guys

>> in the same part of the country as well.

It's funny coincidence. >> What

>> What

is that is that a genuine concern?

>> I mean, I'm not the only person to

notice that the nature of porn is it's

mostly produced in the West and it

mostly features white women and also

East Asian women, but that's like

overwhelmingly. And I think that one of

the things that does end up happening is

men in other cultures watch porn.

Everyone has a smartphone. Everyone can

see it. And they get the impression that

this is what white women are like.

>> And I mean I know just personally like

having traveled to parts of the world where

where

>> you get the most like

pornographic style of sexual harassment

is what I have noticed. Moroccobian

porn related comments and I just thought

you're watching porn aren't you? And in

your head this is what white women are like.

like.

>> White woman equals porn star.

>> Yeah. And it ends up being like racist

propaganda inadvertently. No one's

designing it that way, but that is how

it functions in terms of how it affects

men's views of what women are like.

>> Yeah. I think there is definitely a

bigger picture at times. And I honestly

I'm not that knowledgeable. I'm not that

educated on stuff that's going off in

the world or things which you know

people can escalate and blame me for.

Like I really am a very simple girl.

It's I have sex. I enjoy it. I film it.

I post it and I live my life. And I say

all the time I'm very selfish. I'm not

too concerned about what's going off in

the world. And that can be very bad. But

I also think even if I was to sit here

and really care, I'm not going to make a

difference. Um, presumably you wouldn't

want what you're doing to be

criminalized cuz that's that's what you

you could say no you're just you're just

in it for yourself fine but maybe

there's a responsibility on governments

to say actually this is this is so bad

for like the social fabric that we need

to ban only fans ban the events I mean I

know obviously you've come into conflict

with only fans about some of your events

>> yeah if you was to ban it they're going

to go to other websites sex porn has

always been there so we're very naive to

think if we banned only fans and fans

lay that these issues are going to stop.

You're just going to go to other

platforms which don't have as many

restrictions. At least with the

platforms like Fansley, you have to

upload that many consent forms. It's a

very strict process. If you're going to

go to these other websites and the dark

web and all these other places, you

don't know what age that person is. You

don't know about the consent situation

or you know if someone's forced them to

be there. But with the other platforms,

it is not always safe. But especially

from my side, it is a very safe

environment. Although one of the things

we've learned from the um online harms

act coming in recently is actually that

now men in Britain have to show have to

jump this kind of ID hurdle to get

access to

>> yeah sorry

>> British citizens now have to jump this

ID hurdle it means that actually the

traffic yeah so you have to show your

driving license or something to the and

obviously a lot of people don't want to

give say porn

>> it's scary like yeah but what it's led

to is actually a massive drop in uh porn consumption

consumption

>> yeah it was 47% sent on porn by some.

>> So that does actually show that this is

elastic. It's not like men are always

going to seek out like a fixed

>> the frictionlessness is going to cause

how much people access it.

>> Yeah. And if it's harder to access porn,

people will watch less of it. So I think

the idea that like this is just I I I

agree to some extent that this is an

inevitability and even you know Roman

wall murals featured pornography and you

know this is like a human eternal thing.

But that doesn't mean that

what you do is always going to happen

when you know like it is possible for

governments to crack down on this. >> Yeah,

>> Yeah,

>> it is. But I think I mean sex workers

have helped reduce rape rates. They have.

have.

>> Have they? Do you know?

>> I know people always say that. It's kind

of like I guess it could intuitively

make sense, but it does assume that the

reason the only reason men rape is

because of sexual frustration. No,

there's obviously so many reasons and

you know I'm not intelligent enough to

name every single one, but having sex

workers and having content available

does help um a lot of a lot of women and

make it a lot safer. But with like porn

rates dropping, yeah, there might be 20%

that no longer watch porn cuz they don't

upload their ID and they don't want the

inconvenience of it and it's a bit of a

headache, but there's still going to be

a massive percentage of that that are

now just going elsewhere. They're going

to other websites and other platforms.

And it goes back to those platforms

aren't as controlled and they're not as

safe. Um, and not just that, like

education on sex should be a much bigger

thing um, across all ages.

I think that the idea that so another

example I think which challenges this

idea, which is which is is a common idea

that men are always going to do this,

that they're always going to find a way.

If they don't find it the safe way,

they'll find the unsafe way is um,

surveys done. I can't think of the

numbers off the top of my head, but

surveys done of countries which have

different models in relation to like

street prostitution. Um, so some

countries that have the Nordic model

which criminalizes the punters and some

countries which would have

decriminalized or legalized systems can

often have like neighboring countries or

very similar cultures can have really

similar dissimilar rates of men who say

that they've bought sex like a big gap

in the proportion of men who say that

they bought sex. And in cultures where

it's completely legalized and

normalized, it's common for say men to

go to a brothel for a stag do things

like that. Whereas in countries where

that's not legal, men just stop doing

that. It doesn't mean they completely

stop watching porn. They completely stop

buying sex. But there is a culture

change. People do start thinking that it's

it's

>> Is there a correlation? Do you know if

there's a correlation in those countries

between sexual assault?

>> Not to my knowledge. I mean, this is a

hard thing to study and this is always

and I've always said that when because

obviously I'm critical of porn, right?

And I've always said actually the

strongest argument against my position

which people do occasionally put to me

is if you could absolutely prove that

the existence of porn reduce rape

for me that would be the most compelling

reason to not condemn porn. 100% I think

it be the complete opposite. these guy

if this you know and I don't know but

I'm just thinking of a scenario but if a

guy sat there and he feels really horny

and you know you could be angry and he's

worked up if he's able to access on his

phone is able to release himself and a

lot of guys after they've released

they're like you know what they no

longer have the urge if they're getting

themselves worked up they're not able to

access content it's difficult to say

where that might lead to the problem is

that sometimes sometimes men who might

start off having relatively normal

sexual desires or maybe their desires

are a little bit weird or aggressive or

whatever that they within the normal

bounds. What porn can do because

obviously porn offers every possible

imaginable variety of fetish everything

is that they can start using the weirder

stuff or maybe the more violent stuff or

whatever and they develop a taste for it

and they develop a taste for it and it's

like they double down their taste.

>> This is Mary's law of fap entropy,

>> right? And anecdotally, it's hard thing

to study, but anecdotally,

men like is primarily men do talk about

this that they might have had a little

bit of an interest in something, but

then the porn basically allows them to

like massively massively grow that

interest and little neural highways

become motorways. And this is and and

then all of a sudden it's the only thing

that gets them off and they get more and

more extreme. And to some extent, the

porn sites feed on that because they

want the para distribution guys. They

want the guys who are

>> the power users.

>> Exactly. Um, and I mean that's not I

guess quite as true with your stuff

because it's not like well I mean is it

fetish material do you think

>> is like some of it is massive the gang

bangs but in terms of like the sex world

there's some stuff I watch and it's like

solo content I'm like oh my god that's

crazy like they've just got this massive

deal up they asked I'm like that's

insane whereas they'd watch me doing a

gang bang they're like no that's insane.

So everyone's got different things which

they class as a fetish or extreme. Um,

for me I guess it is somewhat of a

fetish. Like gang bangs isn't for

everyone. Um, but it's not a fetish

compared to like some of the stuff I see

online or some of like the BDSM or some

of the things which I deem crazy. Um,

but to some people that's probably normal.

normal.

>> You do lean towards rough sex and sort

of pro-choking, at least for yourself.

>> Yeah. Louis, I know that you've done

work in the past around

a particular loophole with regards to

BDSM choking killings.

>> Yeah. So, I used to work for a campaign

group. Um I'm only not working for it

now only because we like succeeded in

our goal which was to change the law.

But there was a period where um it was

increasingly common for women to get

killed by men and then the men would

claim that they'd consented to whatever

had caused their death. they say that,

"Oh, I accidentally strangled her to

death, but she did consent."

>> Um, and this was becoming more and more

common as a defense tactic. And so men

were often getting really short

manslaughter sentences when actually

from like it could very well have been

that actually this was just

straightforward domestic violence. You

had no way of knowing that this woman

had consented to anything. I'd say the

police though, it's not I wouldn't say

that's purely porn's fault. I'd say a

lot of that's the police. like they

wouldn't just be if there's a massive

domestic violence and I know some guys

could just lose it and kill their

partners. But if that was the case, it

was probably a buildup. There's probably

additional bruises, text messages, phone

calls, other things which could say like

it wasn't purely because they'd watched

rough porn. I think domestic violence,

these a lot of other reasons and a lot

more realistic reasons.

>> Yeah. I think often there was failures

happening at every stage and often different

different

>> police or judges or juries were quite

credulous and they didn't take um

seriously the alternative hypothesis

>> for sure

>> but I think it was a clear example. It

is it's still an issue in other

countries. Um, thankfully since the law

changed, we actually haven't really had

I don't think we've had any men

attempting this defense tactic. But, um,

it was evidence, I think, of when rough

sex and choking is normalized,

>> all of a sudden you have juries who a

generation ago would never have known

anything about this. It would have been

like a really weird outside of their

realm of experience thing. Suddenly

thinking, "Oh, yeah, that's plausible."

Like, I know that I know that all the

the all the Zuma girls love being choked

nowadays. Sure.

>> I guess it makes sense that this would

be the case. And I think that's a good

example of how

>> you can look at this just on an

individual level and say, well, I'm

consenting and I'm consenting that's

fine. But it can scale to having really

destructive cultural

>> consequences. I I do think

trying to sort of as I am sitting in the

middle here and hearing

in a world that pedestalizes radical

responsibility, personal accountability,

freedom, all that stuff. uh it is tough

to come up with a first order push back.

It's like everyone's consenting. This is

all allowed. That does seem to me to to

hold quite a bit of water, which is

>> what happens when you start to move

culture. What happens when guys start to

think, well, Bonnie Blue likes it and

she's the most famous porn star in the

UK. And then you get to a situation

where I do imagine that girls could be

traumatized by guys try dudes are

nervous in the bedroom and they want to

try and perform in a way that they think

is going to make them attractive and

masculine and I'm going to do the thing

you go it shouldn't have been that like

it wasn't that thing that thing wasn't

the thing you should have been doing and

that influence that

>> sexual culture influence the reason that

we don't tend to typically talk about it

is that we don't try on sexual tactics

the same way as we see somebody in a

cool pair of cargo pants. Mh.

>> We that has only been a very recent

invention that you would even be able to

you know maybe your uncle that was kind

of a little bit like chill would have

said oh well you know you can do this in

the bedroom or whatever and that's it.

It wouldn't maybe your older brother

perhaps I guess but even that's a bit

weird. So this world of um sex technique

influence and trends I have to assume

kind of really

>> it's an internet phenomenon I think

>> didn't exist previously and you are you

are going to be contributing to that.

>> See I disagree. I think the reason is

like the porn I make there's the consent

is discussed on camera. When I'm talking

about being choked I always say hey can

you choke me like this? Actually can you

do it a bit looser? And I've said from

the start, some of these guys when I

started doing 18 year old content would

come to me and do just that. They'd want

to perform. They'd want to go really

rough and they'd slap and choke and I'd

like, well, hold on a second. You're

actually hurting me now. I'm confident

enough to speak up to say, "Hey, like

just how guys try and perform and really

impress the girls." Sometimes a lot of

girls will just take it because they

want to seem they want to impress the

guy as well, make out they can take it.

Yeah. And there's and there's so many

anecdotal examples I've heard of

>> girls who don't have your confidence

>> and don't feel able to be assertive in

that way and they'll have some some guy

choke them and they find it terrifying.

Particular if it's someone you don't

really know. You're like, "Is this guy

going to murder me?"

>> Yeah. But they think, "Oh, I'm going to

go along with it because it looks sexy

or it's attractive." And I always say like

>> in porn that's never discussed. And I do

think that should change. It should be

look in this video. You know when you

like watch Americans Got Talent or

Brit's Got Talent, it's like don't try

this at home or this is done by an

expert. Pornhub or other platform should

say look within this content that is

extreme. The token is done in a safe

environment and it's supposed to be a

jackass. This contain this program

contains strobe lighting effects, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

>> But how many teenage boys did try what

was on Jackass? Right. >> Like

>> Like

>> everybody in my school

>> despite saying this was done by trained

professionals do not try.

>> Yeah. At least you you sort of know

because some of these people that watch

porn, they're not intelligent or they

don't know or they've gone from sex

education at school, which middle-aged

teacher, not been laid, and you think,

I'm not listening to anything you say.

You might have had a quick chat with

your parents. Maybe your uncle or a

brother has mentioned a few techniques.

That's it. You feel as a guy, oh, okay,

I just need to try and give this crazy

performance. I'm going to rough

slapping, hair pulling, and give her

this crazy sex. And she probably doesn't

like it. She's going to be too nervous

to say, but in the sex I have with these

18 year olds or sometimes older because

they're not very experienced. I explain

to them how I enjoy to be choked, how

long to choke me for. No, move your hand

down a little bit. And that's all left

in. I don't edit that out. I don't crop

it. You see that in the video. And

discussing consent isn't weird. It's

sexy. It's sexy to say to a guy, I

really like it when you do this, or can

you do this? Or, you know, stick another

finger in. Whereas most porn, it looks

like this most perfect art performance.

And when I used to do porn, I used to do

that. I used to edit out all the bits

where I've had to stop and get some

extra lube or I've had to switch

positions because I thought it needed to

look perfect and look like everyone

else's porn. And then I realized when I

started sleeping with 18year-olds, how

damaging that is even in terms of the

fact I only slept with body shapes that

no enough had perfect abs and big dicks

because that was what's you know in the

porn industry. Then when I realized how

I guess lack of information is shared

with these people, I was like, I'm going

to keep all that in. It's not unsexy to

not know how to pull hair or how to

choke properly or the fact you can't get

hard or the fact you finish really

quickly, but it's made to seem

unattractive because it's always cropped

out and we don't talk about it.

Would you ban that type of porn? The

really fake style?

>> No, but it should just come with a

disclaimer. It's like a movie. If you

wanted to learn how to drive a car, you

don't watch Fast and Furious to learn.

>> Yeah. And it's also not damaging to

watch that.

>> But who's going to make it have a

disclaimer? Like, do you think the porn

industry should be regulated or do you

think it should be

>> I think a lot of it is. There's a lot of

content I would like to do and I can't

do because they're saying it doesn't agree.

agree.

>> What like

>> I'd love to be Well, I wanted to be tied

up in a glass box. Um,

>> a petting zoo.

>> Yes. And I loved the idea. I was

consenting to it. Everyone that would

have turned up would have been under

understood my restrictions, my yeses, my

nos. Um, and that's another big thing as

well. Yes and nos are discussed before

you start a porn a professional porn

shoot. You go through every you have a

sheet and it has every single thing you

could imagine like fingering, hair

pulling, slapping and you go through

that. That's never shown. You only see

the end result. You see the perfect

edited part. Whereas with my content,

it's very different. It's very, very

consensual. And yes, there is choking,

but it's spoke about during it. Um,

yeah, I think porn should be have

restrictions and it should be told, hey,

this was done by a professional. Consent

was discussed off camera. So then when

these young guys are watching it and

they go to have sex with another

18-year-old girl that's probably not

that confident and going to speak up, in

the back of their head, they sort of

know the porn they watched did discuss

consent and they discussed each other's limits.

limits.

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>> You admit that you're you're an unusual

you're an unusual person. You're unusual

woman. Like there are a whole bunch of

ways in which your your preferences,

your personality is is like

>> you're like a far right tail on so many

different traits. Um that is it really

true to say therefore that when men

watch your content they're learning

about how they should have sex with

other women?

>> Not always. No. Like my porn really

varies. Like I've still some of the

cliche I've had sex with my personal

trainer and oh I've tripped and suddenly I'm having sex. Like I still do some of

I'm having sex. Like I still do some of the cliche porn but a lot of my content

the cliche porn but a lot of my content isn't that. Um, but I'm not also saying,

isn't that. Um, but I'm not also saying, "Oh, well, come and watch me for a sex

"Oh, well, come and watch me for a sex education lesson." And I wouldn't be the

education lesson." And I wouldn't be the right person at this point in time to

right person at this point in time to educate properly on sex. Because I could

educate properly on sex. Because I could say something which contradicts that.

say something which contradicts that. But I do think more things,

But I do think more things, especially porn, or whether that's at

especially porn, or whether that's at school or university, should be

school or university, should be discussed about consent, sex, people's

discussed about consent, sex, people's different limits, things they enjoy. Um,

different limits, things they enjoy. Um, cuz everyone just gets embarrassed about

cuz everyone just gets embarrassed about the conversation. Your parents might

the conversation. Your parents might say, "Look, don't have sex or you have

say, "Look, don't have sex or you have to wear a condom." That's sort of as far

to wear a condom." That's sort of as far as it goes. We're very naive to think

as it goes. We're very naive to think one, they're not having sex before 18,

one, they're not having sex before 18, that they're not watching stuff online.

that they're not watching stuff online. Um, and they don't know what they're

Um, and they don't know what they're doing. So, teach them.

>> Nearly 2/3, about 64% of men under age 25 support making it harder to access

25 support making it harder to access pornography online, up for 51%

pornography online, up for 51% >> in 2013. If young people are becoming

>> in 2013. If young people are becoming more conservative about sex and

more conservative about sex and pornography, how come Bonnie is still

pornography, how come Bonnie is still breaking records?

breaking records? >> Well, I guess even though you earn so

>> Well, I guess even though you earn so much money, like you've still got

much money, like you've still got >> your audience is not all men by any

>> your audience is not all men by any means, right? Like you've got a fairly

means, right? Like you've got a fairly small number of men who are supporting

small number of men who are supporting you.

you. >> Um I I also sense there's this move

>> Um I I also sense there's this move against from the younger men. There's

against from the younger men. There's this move and women as well against

this move and women as well against porn. And I suspect that that comes from

porn. And I suspect that that comes from the fact that these are say zoomers

the fact that these are say zoomers who've grown up on the internet.

who've grown up on the internet. >> What does zoomers mean?

>> What does zoomers mean? >> Like born this century.

>> Like born this century. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> They were brought up on the internet.

>> They were brought up on the internet. They were exposed to porn really young

They were exposed to porn really young ages. I mean it's often like I think

ages. I mean it's often like I think average age is 11 for boys, something

average age is 11 for boys, something like that.

like that. >> Crazy.

>> Crazy. >> And so and they often been exposed to

>> And so and they often been exposed to really extreme stuff. And it's it's

really extreme stuff. And it's it's damaged them psychologically and

damaged them psychologically and sexually in that they I mean like what

sexually in that they I mean like what we were talking about earlier with

we were talking about earlier with sometimes weird tastes escalating,

sometimes weird tastes escalating, >> but also often say struggling with

>> but also often say struggling with erectile dysfunction when you're

erectile dysfunction when you're actually in the room with like if you've

actually in the room with like if you've trained yourself on porn and on your own

trained yourself on porn and on your own hand

hand >> when you're then in the room with a real

>> when you're then in the room with a real woman, you might not be able to get it

woman, you might not be able to get it up

up >> for sure.

>> for sure. >> Or having uh unrealistic expectations

>> Or having uh unrealistic expectations just not being able to find normal women

just not being able to find normal women as attractive because you've become used

as attractive because you've become used to watching women like you. And I think

to watching women like you. And I think that a lot of men have just learned from

that a lot of men have just learned from their own personal experience and just

their own personal experience and just purely selfishly like regardless of the

purely selfishly like regardless of the whether or not porn is fair trade,

whether or not porn is fair trade, they've learned that actually it's bad

they've learned that actually it's bad for them.

for them. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And it's probably bad for everyone. Like

>> And it's probably bad for everyone. Like I mean when it comes to porn addiction

I mean when it comes to porn addiction for instance, I wouldn't wish it on my

for instance, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It's a terrible thing.

worst enemy. It's a terrible thing. >> I think even with porn, like you

>> I think even with porn, like you mentioned then they think unrealistic

mentioned then they think unrealistic body shapes because they're looking at

body shapes because they're looking at these women that no, we do it for for a

these women that no, we do it for for a job. Well, it's not a job in most

job. Well, it's not a job in most people's eyes, but they also shouldn't

people's eyes, but they also shouldn't do that though. That cuz that's stupid

do that though. That cuz that's stupid because probably the porn they're

because probably the porn they're watching, their penis is probably half

watching, their penis is probably half the size of that, and nor do they have a

the size of that, and nor do they have a chiseled six-pack. So, um yeah, it is

chiseled six-pack. So, um yeah, it is terrible when some guys can no longer

terrible when some guys can no longer get hard because they've watched so much

get hard because they've watched so much porn or they have unrealistic

porn or they have unrealistic expectations of women and they shouldn't

expectations of women and they shouldn't because one, they don't most probably

because one, they don't most probably don't perform like a porn star. Um but

don't perform like a porn star. Um but I'm not saying porn is the answer for

I'm not saying porn is the answer for everything. It's there's a much bigger

everything. It's there's a much bigger issue problem, but I don't think banning

issue problem, but I don't think banning porn is the solution of that. I just

porn is the solution of that. I just think it should be better regulated and

think it should be better regulated and more conversations about just sex in

more conversations about just sex in general. Whether you can't get hard, you

general. Whether you can't get hard, you struggle to stay hard, you come really

struggle to stay hard, you come really quickly, or maybe you don't come at all.

quickly, or maybe you don't come at all. It's should just be more of a

It's should just be more of a conversation and less taboo. So, but

conversation and less taboo. So, but people become less embarrassed by

people become less embarrassed by talking about it. But should people

talking about it. But should people watch more porn? Cuz there's quite a big

watch more porn? Cuz there's quite a big chunk of the population that don't watch

chunk of the population that don't watch porn at all. probably more varied porn.

porn at all. probably more varied porn. You shouldn't always just watch one type

You shouldn't always just watch one type of porn. Um,

of porn. Um, >> that's not going to be the issue though.

>> that's not going to be the issue though. If you're talking about people who are

If you're talking about people who are being educated and getting used to sex

being educated and getting used to sex in general, a power user or even a

in general, a power user or even a normal user of porn.

normal user of porn. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I'm not convinced that they need a

>> I'm not convinced that they need a varied diet. What we're talking about is

varied diet. What we're talking about is like one big group of people who don't

like one big group of people who don't use porn at all and then this other

use porn at all and then this other group of people who some of whom

group of people who some of whom continue to use it healthily and then

continue to use it healthily and then some of whom sort of tumble down these

some of whom sort of tumble down these darker rabbit holes.

darker rabbit holes. >> You could say that with anything.

>> You could say that with anything. Alcohol. alcohol, chocolate, like it's

Alcohol. alcohol, chocolate, like it's you can't summarize what one person can

you can't summarize what one person can do. How I could easily have a couple of

do. How I could easily have a couple of drinks and stop. Another person can't do

drinks and stop. Another person can't do that. They're going to, you know, finish

that. They're going to, you know, finish the whole bar.

the whole bar. >> Well, gambling might be a good

>> Well, gambling might be a good comparison because obviously gambling is

comparison because obviously gambling is legal in this country, but we know that

legal in this country, but we know that there are it hasn't always been. There's

there are it hasn't always been. There's been periods where it's been banned and

been periods where it's been banned and there are certain things which are

there are certain things which are banned like the really um sort of

banned like the really um sort of predatory

predatory end of the gambling industry. And we

end of the gambling industry. And we know that things like the apps can be

know that things like the apps can be really addictive and people ruin their

really addictive and people ruin their lives gambling. Like they'll lose the

lives gambling. Like they'll lose the family home, their marriages will break

family home, their marriages will break down, everything.

down, everything. >> And so

>> And so I I certainly think there should be

I I certainly think there should be regulation. I think most people do.

regulation. I think most people do. >> Um if you're you know I I guess in this

>> Um if you're you know I I guess in this comparison like you're like the gambling

comparison like you're like the gambling boss who owns who owns the app that's

boss who owns who owns the app that's like

like >> normalizing this, bringing this into

>> normalizing this, bringing this into everyone's homes. Like is there not some

everyone's homes. Like is there not some sense of responsibility? Like he's he's

sense of responsibility? Like he's he's obviously just he's playing by the

obviously just he's playing by the rules. He's obeying the law. But it's

rules. He's obeying the law. But it's not a subscriber saying to me like,

not a subscriber saying to me like, "Look, I've spent so much money on you

"Look, I've spent so much money on you this month. I'm going to I can't afford

this month. I'm going to I can't afford to pay my mortgage. I can't afford the

to pay my mortgage. I can't afford the food shop." 100%. I'm like, "Look, let's

food shop." 100%. I'm like, "Look, let's just chat. Stop spending so much money

just chat. Stop spending so much money on me. I I clearly want you to be able

on me. I I clearly want you to be able to pay your bills and do your food

to pay your bills and do your food shop." So, yeah, when I'm speaking to to

shop." So, yeah, when I'm speaking to to guys online and they'd, you know, just

guys online and they'd, you know, just sometimes disclose very personal

sometimes disclose very personal information with me, I would never want

information with me, I would never want to put them in a difficult or vulnerable

to put them in a difficult or vulnerable situation, but I can't be responsible.

situation, but I can't be responsible. Have you got

Have you got >> on that? Have you got an opinion on the

>> on that? Have you got an opinion on the financial domination industry? Are you

financial domination industry? Are you familiar with this?

familiar with this? >> About where like find stuff?

>> About where like find stuff? >> Yeah. So like girls will like a guy will

>> Yeah. So like girls will like a guy will pay for a girl's life and then like

pay for a girl's life and then like completely rinse their bank account.

completely rinse their bank account. >> Yeah. I mean it goes even more extreme

>> Yeah. I mean it goes even more extreme than that. Uh that

than that. Uh that >> the end of this is typically guys will

>> the end of this is typically guys will get their paycheck and then immediately

get their paycheck and then immediately send all of it to a girl.

send all of it to a girl. >> Yeah. who drip feeds money back to him

>> Yeah. who drip feeds money back to him as he begs for his own money back.

as he begs for his own money back. >> Oh yeah.

>> Oh yeah. >> Now it's this very odd is this consent?

>> Now it's this very odd is this consent? Is this an addiction? Like you are

Is this an addiction? Like you are transferring this to them. Yeah.

transferring this to them. Yeah. >> A lot of the time the girls that are

>> A lot of the time the girls that are doing this will have compromising

doing this will have compromising material. I know a friend that was at

material. I know a friend that was at university with me who was doing this

university with me who was doing this with a guy and she had videos of him

with a guy and she had videos of him coming in a cheeseburger and then eating

coming in a cheeseburger and then eating it and he was married. He was begging

it and he was married. He was begging her to have £1 so that he could put some

her to have £1 so that he could put some fuel in the car and she says there's 50p

fuel in the car and she says there's 50p get the bus to work. Uh and his bank

get the bus to work. Uh and his bank account has nothing in his wife is

account has nothing in his wife is completely unaware that this is

completely unaware that this is happening again with that consenting

happening again with that consenting adults. This seems to be you know there

adults. This seems to be you know there the I'm trying to find where your limit.

the I'm trying to find where your limit. >> Yeah. Like morally for me I wouldn't be

>> Yeah. Like morally for me I wouldn't be happy with that.

happy with that. >> But you use the word moral in this

>> But you use the word moral in this conversation. Yeah.

conversation. Yeah. >> Yeah. Morally like that's not for me.

>> Yeah. Morally like that's not for me. That that isn't something I'd enjoy. I

That that isn't something I'd enjoy. I wouldn't like that. I'm not doing this

wouldn't like that. I'm not doing this for power.

for power. >> You know what's interesting that uh a

>> You know what's interesting that uh a lot of what you talked about in the very

lot of what you talked about in the very beginning, your justification was around

beginning, your justification was around finances. So, we may have managed to

finances. So, we may have managed to find something close to the bullseye of

find something close to the bullseye of where your sort of sensitivity sits,

where your sort of sensitivity sits, which is

which is >> Yeah. Don't make people poor, Chris.

>> Yeah. Don't make people poor, Chris. That

That >> Yeah, exact. Yeah. You you may play with

>> Yeah, exact. Yeah. You you may play with my private parts, but not my bank

my private parts, but not my bank account type thing.

account type thing. >> These I want people to be happy, but

>> These I want people to be happy, but then it's weird I say that because that

then it's weird I say that because that guy clearly enjoys that. And I have got

guy clearly enjoys that. And I have got some friends that will absolutely rinse

some friends that will absolutely rinse guys for money. and their sort of

guys for money. and their sort of argument, which is true, if it wasn't

argument, which is true, if it wasn't them, it'd be someone else. And at least

them, it'd be someone else. And at least then they know they're going to do it in

then they know they're going to do it in a very controlled situation. Um, but for

a very controlled situation. Um, but for me, I just wouldn't feel comfortable

me, I just wouldn't feel comfortable with that. And everyone is really

with that. And everyone is really different.

different. >> You found a limit. Congratulations.

>> You found a limit. Congratulations. >> For me, I just it stressed me out. Um,

>> For me, I just it stressed me out. Um, and it wouldn't sit comfortably with me.

and it wouldn't sit comfortably with me. Loads of things will take virgins. I'll

Loads of things will take virgins. I'll sleep with 18y olds. And those girls

sleep with 18y olds. And those girls would probably say, "God, that's

would probably say, "God, that's disgusting. I wouldn't feel comfortable

disgusting. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that." But for me, I'd be stressed

with that." But for me, I'd be stressed and be going to sleep thinking, "Oh my

and be going to sleep thinking, "Oh my god, like what if the wife needs to buy

god, like what if the wife needs to buy some emergency shoes?"

>> What do you think that Bonnie has lost by doing what she does?

by doing what she does? >> From dignity.

>> From dignity. >> Has she lost anything?

>> Has she lost anything? >> You've lost some future choices.

>> You've lost some future choices. Obviously, you've you've gained a lot of

Obviously, you've you've gained a lot of choices in terms of your finances,

choices in terms of your finances, >> but um there are now all sorts of things

>> but um there are now all sorts of things like you couldn't become a teacher would

like you couldn't become a teacher would just be one example.

just be one example. >> No, imagine how irritating that would

>> No, imagine how irritating that would be. What a salary of 25K and 20 days

be. What a salary of 25K and 20 days annual leave.

annual leave. >> Like I'm guessing you wouldn't

>> Like I'm guessing you wouldn't necessarily want to, but like there are

necessarily want to, but like there are certain thing if you ever end up having

certain thing if you ever end up having children.

children. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Have you I mean have you thought about

>> Have you I mean have you thought about that the impact that that will have on

that the impact that that will have on them in terms of everyone knowing what

them in terms of everyone knowing what their mom

their mom >> I've not thought about it really deeply.

>> I've not thought about it really deeply. It is a question I've been asked before.

It is a question I've been asked before. Um, I would like children in the future,

Um, I would like children in the future, I think. Yes, it's going to be difficult

I think. Yes, it's going to be difficult and horrible for them for sure at

and horrible for them for sure at moments, but they're also going to have

moments, but they're also going to have the most beautiful life. And I know

the most beautiful life. And I know money doesn't buy happiness, but it will

money doesn't buy happiness, but it will buy me so much time with them. I know

buy me so much time with them. I know for most of my friends that still work,

for most of my friends that still work, their children go to childcare

their children go to childcare full-time. They miss their first steps,

full-time. They miss their first steps, their first words. They can't be there

their first words. They can't be there for all their school holidays. They only

for all their school holidays. They only go on one quality holiday a year. And

go on one quality holiday a year. And for some people, that's fine. But when I

for some people, that's fine. But when I if I'm lucky enough to have children,

if I'm lucky enough to have children, I'll be able to take them around the

I'll be able to take them around the world. They will be able to

world. They will be able to >> You be a stay at home mom.

>> You be a stay at home mom. >> Yeah, I'd be more than happy to be a

>> Yeah, I'd be more than happy to be a stay at home.

stay at home. >> The tread wife pipeline

>> The tread wife pipeline >> for sure.

>> for sure. >> Um and I have no issue with that. But

>> Um and I have no issue with that. But >> for me, the memories I'd be able to give

>> for me, the memories I'd be able to give my children and even in terms of health

my children and even in terms of health care and the life they'd live and the

care and the life they'd live and the security they'd have, they'd be able to

security they'd have, they'd be able to do whatever they want in their life as

do whatever they want in their life as well. they'd have enough money to either

well. they'd have enough money to either invest or never work if they don't want

invest or never work if they don't want to work or maybe they want to do charity

to work or maybe they want to do charity work or like a lot of people when you

work or like a lot of people when you like sort of don't have money you sort

like sort of don't have money you sort of just go into a job but if you

of just go into a job but if you actually had all the money you'd be take

actually had all the money you'd be take a lot longer I think in choosing what

a lot longer I think in choosing what you want to do or what you want to

you want to do or what you want to achieve with your life and I'll be able

achieve with your life and I'll be able to offer my children that but of course

to offer my children that but of course it's going to come with backlash and

it's going to come with backlash and comments but whether you're too pretty

comments but whether you're too pretty you're ugly skinny fat your mom might

you're ugly skinny fat your mom might drive a weird car kids get bullied on um

drive a weird car kids get bullied on um So I think it would be stupid.

So I think it would be stupid. >> There are levels to this game though

>> There are levels to this game though >> for sure. Like oh my god your mom's body

>> for sure. Like oh my god your mom's body blue and she set with a thousand people.

blue and she set with a thousand people. But um it's yeah they they will get

But um it's yeah they they will get picked on.

picked on. >> What do you reckon? What do you reckon's

>> What do you reckon? What do you reckon's the percentage likelihood of you having

the percentage likelihood of you having a family in future future?

a family in future future? >> Um I'd say quite high.

>> Um I'd say quite high. >> I'd say very likely. Um before I was

>> I'd say very likely. Um before I was very fixated on having children and

very fixated on having children and having a family because I because of

having a family because I because of society thought okay you sort of finish

society thought okay you sort of finish school maybe you go to university you

school maybe you go to university you get a job you find a partner you get

get a job you find a partner you get married you get a house you have a

married you get a house you have a couple of children and that's what I

couple of children and that's what I just thought life was and as a whole

just thought life was and as a whole that is if someone said to you right

that is if someone said to you right describe life that is what you would

describe life that is what you would sort of say that's also what you're made

sort of say that's also what you're made to believe happiness is everyone looked

to believe happiness is everyone looked at me cuz I I had all of that before

at me cuz I I had all of that before with but no children thinking god you

with but no children thinking god you must be so happy. You live the most

must be so happy. You live the most amazing life. And I thought, I'm with

amazing life. And I thought, I'm with the wrong person. Like, I'm happy, but

the wrong person. Like, I'm happy, but I'm not in love with him. Or I live this

I'm not in love with him. Or I live this life and it looks perfect, but it's not

life and it looks perfect, but it's not for me. Um, and yeah, it took me a while

for me. Um, and yeah, it took me a while to realize that, but I've realized it,

to realize that, but I've realized it, and that's the main thing.

and that's the main thing. >> Do you think you'd have taken the same

>> Do you think you'd have taken the same path in life if you'd had kids with your

path in life if you'd had kids with your ex-husband? Um,

ex-husband? Um, I probably would have done some sort of

I probably would have done some sort of sex work later on, but probably not when

sex work later on, but probably not when the children were still young. And I

the children were still young. And I probably would have lived off my

probably would have lived off my husband's wage for a few years, would

husband's wage for a few years, would have gone to go back to work. I thought,

have gone to go back to work. I thought, you know what, I don't want to. I want

you know what, I don't want to. I want flexibility. Cuz that's the other thing

flexibility. Cuz that's the other thing this, you know, sex work offers. You

this, you know, sex work offers. You don't have to be very public with it.

don't have to be very public with it. Like when I did cam work, I could have

Like when I did cam work, I could have done that and no one would have known.

done that and no one would have known. Or you don't even have to show your face

Or you don't even have to show your face or you could wear a mask. Like sex work

or you could wear a mask. Like sex work isn't always extreme. There's a lot of

isn't always extreme. There's a lot of people that do sex work alongside a

people that do sex work alongside a normal job and no one ever knows and

normal job and no one ever knows and it's just a bit of extra cash so they

it's just a bit of extra cash so they can go on nicer holidays. Um, so yeah, I

can go on nicer holidays. Um, so yeah, I probably would have always done it

probably would have always done it because it gave me instant flexibility

because it gave me instant flexibility and I know you could do multiple other

and I know you could do multiple other things and get that, but it's also not

things and get that, but it's also not very realistic.

very realistic. What's the what's the biggest downside

What's the what's the biggest downside from you being famous? I've heard you

from you being famous? I've heard you talk about uh not really going out alone

talk about uh not really going out alone anymore, for instance. Yeah, like I have

anymore, for instance. Yeah, like I have security, but that's I think that got

security, but that's I think that got sort of not twisted, but people thought

sort of not twisted, but people thought it's because people are horrible to me

it's because people are horrible to me or it's, you know, I can't go out

or it's, you know, I can't go out without someone shouting something

without someone shouting something negative. It's the complete opposite.

negative. It's the complete opposite. It's because I can't walk anywhere

It's because I can't walk anywhere without people swarm me for photos,

without people swarm me for photos, people coming up saying hi. And that's

people coming up saying hi. And that's men and women, families, women. The

men and women, families, women. The women are probably I say the worst, but

women are probably I say the worst, but they're the ones that are coming up

they're the ones that are coming up non-stop. I even have moms with children

non-stop. I even have moms with children under the age of 18 saying, "Can you

under the age of 18 saying, "Can you grab a photo for my son?" Or, "Can we

grab a photo for my son?" Or, "Can we grab a family photo with you?" What do

grab a family photo with you?" What do the women say that aren't the moms with

the women say that aren't the moms with the kids under 18?

the kids under 18? >> Um, a lot of screaming like, "Oh my god,

>> Um, a lot of screaming like, "Oh my god, I can't believe it's you. Oh, I love

I can't believe it's you. Oh, I love your content. I love your videos. I've

your content. I love your videos. I've seen you online." Um, it's honestly I've

seen you online." Um, it's honestly I've received near enough zero hate in

received near enough zero hate in person.

person. >> Is that surprising, Louise?

>> Is that surprising, Louise? >> I think it's not surprising in person

>> I think it's not surprising in person because I think in general people um

because I think in general people um most people don't want to be negative to

most people don't want to be negative to someone in the flesh. Like if you see me

someone in the flesh. Like if you see me say hi, then they're like, I [ __ ]

say hi, then they're like, I [ __ ] hate that girl. I'm not saying that

hate that girl. I'm not saying that they're talking positively about me, but

they're talking positively about me, but even some of these families and some of

even some of these families and some of these families I literally slate online

these families I literally slate online saying, "Yeah, you stay at home. You

saying, "Yeah, you stay at home. You don't do anything. You complain." And

don't do anything. You complain." And then I sometimes I was at the airport

then I sometimes I was at the airport recently and I saw a family and it

recently and I saw a family and it looked like the exact family. I mean,

looked like the exact family. I mean, this is me judging that I slate online.

this is me judging that I slate online. I thought, "Oh, here we go." And there

I thought, "Oh, here we go." And there was quite a out, you know, speaking very

was quite a out, you know, speaking very loud and I thought, "They're going to

loud and I thought, "They're going to say something." And instead was like,

say something." And instead was like, "Oh my god, can my husband grab a photo

"Oh my god, can my husband grab a photo with you? Oh, we find you so funny." And

with you? Oh, we find you so funny." And it just makes me realize like the hate

it just makes me realize like the hate you get online. I'm probably the most

you get online. I'm probably the most one of the most hated people in the UK

one of the most hated people in the UK if not you know across all countries at

if not you know across all countries at times but in person I am very much

times but in person I am very much loved. So the security isn't because I

loved. So the security isn't because I can't leave the house scared. It's just

can't leave the house scared. It's just because I need to be able to get

because I need to be able to get somewhere and I get completely swamped

somewhere and I get completely swamped for photos.

for photos. >> You've probably heard me talk about

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below by heading to drinklnt.com/modern wisdom. That's drinklnt.com/modern

wisdom. >> Chris and I were talking earlier about

>> Chris and I were talking earlier about the fact that we're both very like we

the fact that we're both very like we don't like negative feedback. We don't

don't like negative feedback. We don't we're quite we're quite sensitive,

we're quite we're quite sensitive, right? We don't and I for me I find this

right? We don't and I for me I find this your ability to just withstand that

your ability to just withstand that level of to say something like I'm

level of to say something like I'm probably the most hated woman in Britain

probably the most hated woman in Britain and be quite chill about it I find

and be quite chill about it I find almost as confusing as your ability to

almost as confusing as your ability to not be repulsed by a bunch of ugly men.

not be repulsed by a bunch of ugly men. >> I don't know where it's come from. I

>> I don't know where it's come from. I don't

don't >> you always like that?

>> you always like that? >> No, I'd say I've not always cared what

>> No, I'd say I've not always cared what people thought but I've never been this

people thought but I've never been this much you know oblivious but so much I

much you know oblivious but so much I don't care

don't care >> flippant about it.

>> flippant about it. >> Yeah. Like I don't know where it's come

>> Yeah. Like I don't know where it's come from. And my sister, she's really

from. And my sister, she's really sensitive. Like one of the hate comments

sensitive. Like one of the hate comments the other day was like, "Oh, that bed

the other day was like, "Oh, that bed sheet." I did like a day in the live

sheet." I did like a day in the live vlog and I was at home and they said,

vlog and I was at home and they said, "Oh, her bedding was from Sheen and it

"Oh, her bedding was from Sheen and it made her cry." Like she's very

made her cry." Like she's very sensitive. Um like

>> she really likes that bed in. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Um but yeah, I'm just not bothered. I

>> Um but yeah, I'm just not bothered. I think it's because I know I'm happy. I

think it's because I know I'm happy. I know everyone I sort of work with, speak

know everyone I sort of work with, speak with are happy. So I'm like, why am I

with are happy. So I'm like, why am I bothered about hate comments? And one of

bothered about hate comments? And one of the biggest comments I get is, "Oh, I'm

the biggest comments I get is, "Oh, I'm actually 47." And I think, "How am I

actually 47." And I think, "How am I going to be bothered about you judging

going to be bothered about you judging my age or recently went viral that I'm

my age or recently went viral that I'm apparently transgender?" And all these

apparently transgender?" And all these hate comments are just completely made

hate comments are just completely made up. And I find it more amusing than I do

up. And I find it more amusing than I do hurtful.

hurtful. >> Do you ever get I know I personally the

>> Do you ever get I know I personally the criticisms I dislike the most and

criticisms I dislike the most and criticisms that I think are probably

criticisms that I think are probably true.

true. >> Like when when they're ridiculous, I

>> Like when when they're ridiculous, I think, or whatever, but when they're a

think, or whatever, but when they're a bit close to the bone, they hurt more.

bit close to the bone, they hurt more. Do you ever are there ever criticisms

Do you ever are there ever criticisms you get which do sting a little bit cuz

you get which do sting a little bit cuz they're a bit true?

they're a bit true? >> Um I mean I get called flatch chested

>> Um I mean I get called flatch chested and stuff a lot sometimes and yeah I

and stuff a lot sometimes and yeah I have got small boobs but I'm not

have got small boobs but I'm not bothered by that I think. Do you have

bothered by that I think. Do you have body anxieties? Cuz obviously you're

body anxieties? Cuz obviously you're just like endlessly naked on film.

just like endlessly naked on film. >> Well like the top I was meant to wear

>> Well like the top I was meant to wear today was strapless but I have eczema

today was strapless but I have eczema sometimes on my arms. I was like oh

sometimes on my arms. I was like oh actually I don't fancy wearing that

actually I don't fancy wearing that today. It's like I clearly do care but

today. It's like I clearly do care but not to the point where I used to. Like

not to the point where I used to. Like when I first moved to Australia, I

when I first moved to Australia, I actually wore a lot of oversized

actually wore a lot of oversized t-shirts. I didn't always want to go to

t-shirts. I didn't always want to go to the beach. I felt quite insecure and I

the beach. I felt quite insecure and I was sort of bothered. Yet when I started

was sort of bothered. Yet when I started this job, and bear in mind when I did

this job, and bear in mind when I did that, no one cared what I looked like.

that, no one cared what I looked like. No one was giving me hate. No one was

No one was giving me hate. No one was saying anything. Yet when I started this

saying anything. Yet when I started this job, even though I started receiving

job, even though I started receiving hundreds and hundreds of hate comments,

hundreds and hundreds of hate comments, I became more confident than ever

I became more confident than ever because the positive for me outweighed

because the positive for me outweighed every negative comment. You are aware

every negative comment. You are aware that that's very non-typical for humans,

that that's very non-typical for humans, right? That we remember the criticisms

right? That we remember the criticisms and forget the compliments. We have a

and forget the compliments. We have a negativity bias. And it seems like

negativity bias. And it seems like you've managed to do some sort of

you've managed to do some sort of Gryffindor only drinks in that which

Gryffindor only drinks in that which makes it stronger thing.

makes it stronger thing. >> And yeah, like Brazilian jiu-jitsu,

>> And yeah, like Brazilian jiu-jitsu, >> what for most people would be a

>> what for most people would be a catastrophic amount of criticism, but

catastrophic amount of criticism, but >> do you think you get more hate than love

>> do you think you get more hate than love >> online? Yes, for sure. in person

>> online? Yes, for sure. in person completely different. But it depends

completely different. But it depends what platform you go on. Like my Twitter

what platform you go on. Like my Twitter is very positive, but if you go on like

is very positive, but if you go on like Tik Tok, especially like my backup

Tik Tok, especially like my backup accounts or my like my main accounts is

accounts or my like my main accounts is very positive, but you go on my

very positive, but you go on my additional accounts, they're very

additional accounts, they're very negative. So, it really depends what

negative. So, it really depends what you're sort of clicking on. Um, but

you're sort of clicking on. Um, but there's not many things I I want people

there's not many things I I want people to take away from me, but it's just

to take away from me, but it's just don't care. Don't live your life by

don't care. Don't live your life by judgment. And it's like when you went to

judgment. And it's like when you went to school, I don't know if you ever fell

school, I don't know if you ever fell out with your friends or you was like,

out with your friends or you was like, "Oh my god, my friend at school today.

"Oh my god, my friend at school today. I'm going to be sat by myself at lunch."

I'm going to be sat by myself at lunch." And your parents are like, "Look, just

And your parents are like, "Look, just don't care what people think." Or you're

don't care what people think." Or you're just at school, it doesn't matter. And

just at school, it doesn't matter. And then you come away from school and you

then you come away from school and you realize how silly it was to a certain

realize how silly it was to a certain degree for caring about what people

degree for caring about what people thought about you at school. And if they

thought about you at school. And if they thought you was popular or not in the

thought you was popular or not in the popular group, yet even though you

popular group, yet even though you realize looking back that was silly to

realize looking back that was silly to care, then you then suddenly care about

care, then you then suddenly care about what your colleagues think about you at

what your colleagues think about you at work. And then when you leave that job,

work. And then when you leave that job, you realize how insignificant to a

you realize how insignificant to a certain degree their opinion was. But

certain degree their opinion was. But then you keep continuing to stress about

then you keep continuing to stress about your current surroundings. But I don't

your current surroundings. But I don't care. And that is genuinely I think one

care. And that is genuinely I think one of the best things about me is is I'm

of the best things about me is is I'm not I am sensitive, but I'm not

not I am sensitive, but I'm not sensitive to the point of I'm aware that

sensitive to the point of I'm aware that I'm never going to look back on my life

I'm never going to look back on my life and go I wish I cared about I wish I

and go I wish I cared about I wish I cared less about what people thought

cared less about what people thought about me. I'm already in that mindset.

about me. I'm already in that mindset. And for most people, they can't do that.

And for most people, they can't do that. they're worried about what their

they're worried about what their colleagues think or what the family

colleagues think or what the family think or what someone you went to school

think or what someone you went to school with is going to say about their new car

with is going to say about their new car or their job they're in.

or their job they're in. >> I mean, it's such a natural human

>> I mean, it's such a natural human instinct though to care about your your

instinct though to care about your your peer group and about I mean, something

peer group and about I mean, something that I've um I've often said is that

that I've um I've often said is that there are there are various ways in

there are there are various ways in which men and women are different from

which men and women are different from one another psychologically and

one another psychologically and personality wise and stuff. And even

personality wise and stuff. And even though there are obviously individual

though there are obviously individual outliers, there are quite big average

outliers, there are quite big average differences. And so for instance, women

differences. And so for instance, women are less keen on casual sex than men are

are less keen on casual sex than men are on average.

on average. >> And that means that a culture of casual

>> And that means that a culture of casual sex is on balance going to be worse for

sex is on balance going to be worse for women and better for men.

women and better for men. >> I think cuz men focus so much on them a

>> I think cuz men focus so much on them a lot of the time in the bedroom. If it's

lot of the time in the bedroom. If it's a one night stand, they're just thinking

a one night stand, they're just thinking I think cuz men physically come as well.

I think cuz men physically come as well. >> Yeah. It's sort of so focused on on

>> Yeah. It's sort of so focused on on them. And a lot of women like especially

them. And a lot of women like especially myself when I first started I didn't

myself when I first started I didn't feel confident enough to speak up to be

feel confident enough to speak up to be like actually can you do it a bit

like actually can you do it a bit softer. Can you you know yeah go a

softer. Can you you know yeah go a little bit to the left. It's partly

little bit to the left. It's partly that. It's also partly that actually

that. It's also partly that actually most women do have

most women do have most women do not fancy like really do

most women do not fancy like really do not fancy the vast majority of men.

not fancy the vast majority of men. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Like they do not want to have sex with

>> Like they do not want to have sex with the vast majority of men. Their

the vast majority of men. Their threshold is really high in terms of who

threshold is really high in terms of who they're willing to to sleep with. Um and

they're willing to to sleep with. Um and you're of course not like that as we've

you're of course not like that as we've discussed. But I've always said like I

discussed. But I've always said like I don't think that our current sexual

don't think that our current sexual culture is on balance very good for

culture is on balance very good for women in general, but that I I I believe

women in general, but that I I I believe that there surely is like some unicorn

that there surely is like some unicorn woman out there who is perfectly suited

woman out there who is perfectly suited to the sex industry. And I think maybe

to the sex industry. And I think maybe you're it. Like I think you've got every

you're it. Like I think you've got every trait necessary in order to withstand it

trait necessary in order to withstand it and do well by it. Um, I guess the

and do well by it. Um, I guess the problem is not everyone

problem is not everyone you have to spend a long time talking to

you have to spend a long time talking to you to realize that that's true and to

you to realize that that's true and to realize quite how unusual you are. And

realize quite how unusual you are. And >> cuz I feel bad when other sex workers

>> cuz I feel bad when other sex workers try and

try and >> like either do the same or think, "God,

>> like either do the same or think, "God, for me to be a successful sex worker, I

for me to be a successful sex worker, I need to do that." And that really,

need to do that." And that really, right, who I think we all agree is is

right, who I think we all agree is is suffering from this. Actually, um,

suffering from this. Actually, um, you're a real one in maybe 7 billion

you're a real one in maybe 7 billion kind of person. who are kind of like the

kind of person. who are kind of like the LeBron James of socioexuality

LeBron James of socioexuality and discussed sensitivity.

and discussed sensitivity. >> If I ever find a boyfriend, I'll have to

>> If I ever find a boyfriend, I'll have to tell him I'm one in seven million.

tell him I'm one in seven million. >> 7 billion. Seven billion. Yeah.

>> 7 billion. Seven billion. Yeah. >> But I mean, you do get quite a lot of

>> But I mean, you do get quite a lot of backlash from people within the porn

backlash from people within the porn industry, right?

industry, right? >> Oh, yeah. Most of them hate me.

>> Oh, yeah. Most of them hate me. >> Yeah. Why do they hate you? One, I've

>> Yeah. Why do they hate you? One, I've made their fake [ __ ] fan content so

made their fake [ __ ] fan content so irrelevant. Um, they used to think, oh,

irrelevant. Um, they used to think, oh, faking I've had sex with one stranger

faking I've had sex with one stranger was going to be the biggest thing of

was going to be the biggest thing of their career. And I've sort of just

their career. And I've sort of just highlighted one it was fake and second

highlighted one it was fake and second of all it's I'll do a thousand shut up

of all it's I'll do a thousand shut up about your one. But they

about your one. But they just say I'm some of them have said I

just say I'm some of them have said I promote rape culture. Um that it's

promote rape culture. Um that it's dangerous. It's making their subscribers

dangerous. It's making their subscribers ask for more extreme content. And I get

ask for more extreme content. And I get that and I I do feel sorry for them. But

that and I I do feel sorry for them. But if things are changing or your

if things are changing or your subscribers are no longer interested in

subscribers are no longer interested in you, that's not my fault. That's that's

you, that's not my fault. That's that's a you problem. You can't blame me for

a you problem. You can't blame me for everything.

everything. >> I mean it is difficult if you say sex is

>> I mean it is difficult if you say sex is a resource to be traded like any other

a resource to be traded like any other and then capitalist market dynamics get

and then capitalist market dynamics get applied to that which you have stepped

applied to that which you have stepped into.

into. >> It is very difficult to say I should not

>> It is very difficult to say I should not be subject to the same supply demand and

be subject to the same supply demand and competition curves that every other

competition curves that every other industry is. if you accept that going in

industry is. if you accept that going in that I think the problem is that people

that I think the problem is that people get this sort of crossover and this is

get this sort of crossover and this is something that Mary's written about

something that Mary's written about which is

which is >> the world is at a weird intersection at

>> the world is at a weird intersection at the moment that sex is uh simultaneously

the moment that sex is uh simultaneously completely meaningless and can be done

completely meaningless and can be done casually and doesn't have anything uh uh

casually and doesn't have anything uh uh beyond the physical action attached to

beyond the physical action attached to it. You can sleep at him and not catch

it. You can sleep at him and not catch feels. And also if done incorrectly can

feels. And also if done incorrectly can be the single most traumatic event of

be the single most traumatic event of your life that never changes that you're

your life that never changes that you're never able to recover from. And squaring

never able to recover from. And squaring the circle is difficult. And I think

the circle is difficult. And I think this is where it kind of meets when you

this is where it kind of meets when you actually see the raw economics of this

actually see the raw economics of this that you think well if consenting

that you think well if consenting uh workers within that industry are

uh workers within that industry are having to up their consensual work

having to up their consensual work ethic, work rate, uh level of work

ethic, work rate, uh level of work extremity. It would be like having a

extremity. It would be like having a salesperson who is particularly

salesperson who is particularly unbelievable at sales because of one

unbelievable at sales because of one specific tactic, but this tactic is very

specific tactic, but this tactic is very taxing on their body and very few people

taxing on their body and very few people can go and do it and now everybody else

can go and do it and now everybody else has got to try and do the same sales

has got to try and do the same sales tactic.

tactic. >> Yeah,

>> Yeah, >> it it is difficult to come up with some

>> it it is difficult to come up with some sort of ethical grounding where you can

sort of ethical grounding where you can defend that that isn't permissible

defend that that isn't permissible within the rules that that system

within the rules that that system already had. Does that make sense? Is

already had. Does that make sense? Is that is do you agree with that? I mean,

that is do you agree with that? I mean, I honestly sort of think that actually

I honestly sort of think that actually as someone who is critical of porn and

as someone who is critical of porn and sex and the sexual revolution and

sex and the sexual revolution and everything,

everything, you're almost doing my job for me

you're almost doing my job for me because you're highlighting, you're

because you're highlighting, you're taking everything to its logical

taking everything to its logical conclusion and highlighting that there

conclusion and highlighting that there are fundamental problems with this

are fundamental problems with this worldview. You're like, it's very hard

worldview. You're like, it's very hard for because there's a lot of people who

for because there's a lot of people who say that they are in favor of sexual

say that they are in favor of sexual liberation and pornography and so on,

liberation and pornography and so on, >> but they're not in favor of Bonnie Blue.

>> but they're not in favor of Bonnie Blue. >> It is the redial Adam Surdom thing for

>> It is the redial Adam Surdom thing for everything. So I do think you can be and

everything. So I do think you can be and then see me as too far. Like I also

then see me as too far. Like I also think that's fine. Like I'm not saying

think that's fine. Like I'm not saying you could agree with porn and then

you could agree with porn and then sudden you see me and say you have to

sudden you see me and say you have to agree. Like you can completely agree

agree. Like you can completely agree with porn and then look at me and think

with porn and then look at me and think that's too far and that is okay.

that's too far and that is okay. Everyone's got their own opinions. It's

Everyone's got their own opinions. It's just when people try to give me facts.

just when people try to give me facts. I'm like you're not speaking fact or

I'm like you're not speaking fact or you're speaking opinion. Um, but yeah,

you're speaking opinion. Um, but yeah, these are many many issues with the sort

these are many many issues with the sort of I guess industry and a lot of content

of I guess industry and a lot of content creators say. Um, you know, I they're

creators say. Um, you know, I they're just no longer relevant and that's and

just no longer relevant and that's and that's my fault. But it's not I get

that's my fault. But it's not I get social media banned all the time. I get

social media banned all the time. I get new restrictions. I have new issues and

new restrictions. I have new issues and probably more issues than any other sex

probably more issues than any other sex worker because I'm so big and so

worker because I'm so big and so outspoken. I get banned that other

outspoken. I get banned that other content creators don't get just because

content creators don't get just because they don't have the techniques I do. Um,

they don't have the techniques I do. Um, but I adjust and I change and that's

but I adjust and I change and that's what you should be doing with any job or

what you should be doing with any job or any situation you're in. If you're

any situation you're in. If you're hitting restrictions, work around it or

hitting restrictions, work around it or you change your technique.

you change your technique. >> Are you worried about Bonnie as a

>> Are you worried about Bonnie as a mother?

mother? >> I I would definitely worry if you were

>> I I would definitely worry if you were still doing it.

still doing it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, certainly like bringing punters

>> I mean, certainly like bringing punters into the home. I'm guessing you probably

into the home. I'm guessing you probably wouldn't do that.

wouldn't do that. >> No. Like even now, I never film at home.

>> No. Like even now, I never film at home. I always film at a venue. Um, and I have

I always film at a venue. Um, and I have filmed at home before, but I no longer

filmed at home before, but I no longer enjoy that. I was like, "No, I know what

enjoy that. I was like, "No, I know what my home is. You know, I want to keep my

my home is. You know, I want to keep my home my home, and I want to be able to

home my home, and I want to be able to separate from that." And not that I've

separate from that." And not that I've ever needed that separation,

ever needed that separation, >> but I'd always like the fact if I needed

>> but I'd always like the fact if I needed it, I'm not somewhere where I think, you

it, I'm not somewhere where I think, you know what, I've just been gangbang

know what, I've just been gangbang banged on this sofa. It's

banged on this sofa. It's >> a separate place and I can if I need a

>> a separate place and I can if I need a break, I've got the opportunity to have

break, I've got the opportunity to have that. you could probably go quite a long

that. you could probably go quite a long way in sort of transforming your

way in sort of transforming your identity to protect the kids from the

identity to protect the kids from the backlash at school. Um different I mean

backlash at school. Um different I mean Bonnie Blue obviously isn't your real

Bonnie Blue obviously isn't your real name anyway, right? Um but um how are

name anyway, right? Um but um how are you going to talk to them? How would you

you going to talk to them? How would you talk to them about what how you living?

talk to them about what how you living? How you've got this amazing house? You

How you've got this amazing house? You know,

know, >> no idea very early age. I know that

>> no idea very early age. I know that would be very young age for them because

would be very young age for them because whatever age you think your either kids

whatever age you think your either kids start swearing or they start saying

start swearing or they start saying different things at the playgrounds or

different things at the playgrounds or start watching content, it's probably a

start watching content, it's probably a lot younger. So it would really depend

lot younger. So it would really depend on the society in at that moment in

on the society in at that moment in time. Like you said the current age is

time. Like you said the current age is 11 that might go even even younger. Um I

11 that might go even even younger. Um I don't know how the conversation would go

don't know how the conversation would go to be honest. I don't know what would be

to be honest. I don't know what would be you know depends how long if I'm no

you know depends how long if I'm no longer in the industry, how much is

longer in the industry, how much is still out there, how much I'm still

still out there, how much I'm still being spoken about, how much I would

being spoken about, how much I would have to disclose. Um I definitely want

have to disclose. Um I definitely want would want to disclose everything. I'd

would want to disclose everything. I'd never want anyone telling my children or

never want anyone telling my children or surprising them with what I do. I'd want

surprising them with what I do. I'd want them to hear it from me. And that's sort

them to hear it from me. And that's sort of how I deal with my family at the

of how I deal with my family at the moment. Anything I plan to do or

moment. Anything I plan to do or anything I do, they hear it from me.

anything I do, they hear it from me. Even with I did a documentary recently

Even with I did a documentary recently and it showed a lot of sex. It showed um

and it showed a lot of sex. It showed um a lot of the gang bangs, a lot of the

a lot of the gang bangs, a lot of the things I get up to and I actually took

things I get up to and I actually took my family to the screening and some of

my family to the screening and some of the journalists was disgusted that my I

the journalists was disgusted that my I had taken my family there and it was

had taken my family there and it was hard to watch it with them. For sure it

hard to watch it with them. For sure it was.

was. >> Did you know it was going to be as

>> Did you know it was going to be as explicit as it was? Um, I'd watched a

explicit as it was? Um, I'd watched a rough edit and I knew there was going to

rough edit and I knew there was going to be sex in there. I did not know it was

be sex in there. I did not know it was going to be as explicit as it was. Um,

going to be as explicit as it was. Um, and I was thinking during it, like I was

and I was thinking during it, like I was sat next to my dad, my grandma was

sat next to my dad, my grandma was there, my mom, my sister, her boyfriend,

there, my mom, my sister, her boyfriend, and there was times where I couldn't

and there was times where I couldn't look at the screen. I had my head down.

look at the screen. I had my head down. >> What was that sensation that came up for

>> What was that sensation that came up for you?

you? >> It was me showing my [ __ ] saying, "I've

>> It was me showing my [ __ ] saying, "I've just been railed by x amount of people."

just been railed by x amount of people." >> No, that's what was on the screen. What

>> No, that's what was on the screen. What was the sensation that came up for you

was the sensation that came up for you when you were sat in the seat? Um,

when you were sat in the seat? Um, I just felt a bit sick and it wasn't

I just felt a bit sick and it wasn't because of what I'd done. It was just,

because of what I'd done. It was just, uh, this is the first time my family

uh, this is the first time my family have really been exposed to this right

have really been exposed to this right now when they're sat front row in like

now when they're sat front row in like this cinema room and they've got

this cinema room and they've got journalists behind it.

journalists behind it. >> I'm trying I'm going to just keep my

>> I'm trying I'm going to just keep my sort of foot on this point for a second.

sort of foot on this point for a second. Beyond feeling sick,

Beyond feeling sick, >> I I What was the emotion that came up?

>> I I What was the emotion that came up? Like what did you what was the feeling?

Like what did you what was the feeling? What was the sense beyond physically how

What was the sense beyond physically how it manifested in your body?

it manifested in your body? >> I was just hoping like my dad was okay.

>> I was just hoping like my dad was okay. Like I think

Like I think >> again that's not an emotion.

>> again that's not an emotion. >> Yeah. But I apart from literally feeling

>> Yeah. But I apart from literally feeling sick and thinking like oh my gosh I hope

sick and thinking like oh my gosh I hope my dad's okay. That was all that was

my dad's okay. That was all that was going through my mind and what I was

going through my mind and what I was feeling.

feeling. >> What were you worried he might feel?

>> What were you worried he might feel? >> Um

>> Um I don't know like potentially be

I don't know like potentially be disgusted potentially think this is

disgusted potentially think this is humiliated.

humiliated. >> Yeah. You mentioned front row. So

>> Yeah. You mentioned front row. So they've got journalists looking at them.

they've got journalists looking at them. So was that feeling of like journalist

So was that feeling of like journalist behind. Yeah, it was it was hard and I

behind. Yeah, it was it was hard and I would just like I always want to protect

would just like I always want to protect my dad. Like my dad is super sweet and

my dad. Like my dad is super sweet and I I don't wrap him in bubble wrap at

I I don't wrap him in bubble wrap at all. They're fully aware of what I do

all. They're fully aware of what I do and to the extreme and they're fully

and to the extreme and they're fully supportive.

supportive. Um yeah, during the whole documentary I

Um yeah, during the whole documentary I was sort of like oh I felt so nervous. I

was sort of like oh I felt so nervous. I just wanted to say to him like how do

just wanted to say to him like how do you feel? Are you okay? Like

you feel? Are you okay? Like >> okay so you did feel nervous there. I'm

>> okay so you did feel nervous there. I'm I'm the reason the reason that I say it

I'm the reason the reason that I say it >> is

>> is >> I want my family to be proud of me and I

>> I want my family to be proud of me and I was worried them seeing that might take

was worried them seeing that might take that taking that feeling away. Um but

that taking that feeling away. Um but there was other parts of the documentary

there was other parts of the documentary my mom, dad, my grandma, they're all

my mom, dad, my grandma, they're all laughing and they're they're finding it

laughing and they're they're finding it funny and they're happy and the other

funny and they're happy and the other parts they just looked away. But I'm

parts they just looked away. But I'm really glad they watched it because

really glad they watched it because their friends have going to have watched

their friends have going to have watched it. the everyone in that town would have

it. the everyone in that town would have watched it and if anything was to say

watched it and if anything was to say anything to them, they're not going to

anything to them, they're not going to be shocked or surprised because they've

be shocked or surprised because they've watched it and they know what to expect.

watched it and they know what to expect. And that's how I I guess I would treat

And that's how I I guess I would treat my children is just always being very

my children is just always being very transparent with them and sort of not

transparent with them and sort of not hiding things from them because I know

hiding things from them because I know they'll find out. How do you feel about

they'll find out. How do you feel about your daughter doing what you do for a

your daughter doing what you do for a living?

living? >> Um, if I had a daughter, I would

>> Um, if I had a daughter, I would explain. Look, I'm very different. Most

explain. Look, I'm very different. Most people are going to be very hurt by

people are going to be very hurt by this. They're not going to be able to

this. They're not going to be able to deal with this mentally and physically.

deal with this mentally and physically. But if they wanted to do that, I would

But if they wanted to do that, I would not disown them. I wouldn't be like,

not disown them. I wouldn't be like, "No, don't do it." Like I said, the main

"No, don't do it." Like I said, the main reason I got into it originally was

reason I got into it originally was money. Um, yes, that has shifted, but

money. Um, yes, that has shifted, but they would have so much money and so

they would have so much money and so much opportunity to do anything they

much opportunity to do anything they wanted. Um, and not many people are like

wanted. Um, and not many people are like me, so I can't imagine my daughter would

me, so I can't imagine my daughter would want to do it just because,

want to do it just because, you know, not many people do. you're the

you know, not many people do. you're the LeBron James app.

LeBron James app. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um,

>> Um, >> but if they did do that, as long as they

>> but if they did do that, as long as they understood it's not cuz I think

understood it's not cuz I think sometimes I make it look very easy. I

sometimes I make it look very easy. I make it look like it's a breeze in a

make it look like it's a breeze in a park and because for me that is and I

park and because for me that is and I think that's what can be damaging on

think that's what can be damaging on society or it can be hard for people

society or it can be hard for people online because they see me going, "Oh, I

online because they see me going, "Oh, I earn loads of money and I'm really happy

earn loads of money and I'm really happy and I love my life." Most people try and

and I love my life." Most people try and copy it. They're traumatized. The

copy it. They're traumatized. The families are upset. Um, so yeah, it's

families are upset. Um, so yeah, it's just making them aware. It's I do say

just making them aware. It's I do say it's easy cuz I think of my dad working

it's easy cuz I think of my dad working hard. He worked two jobs. He worked

hard. He worked two jobs. He worked night shifts. He had to work in terrible

night shifts. He had to work in terrible weather conditions. I'm like that's hard

weather conditions. I'm like that's hard work. Me lying on my back ain't that

work. Me lying on my back ain't that hard. So it's not hard but it is hard. I

hard. So it's not hard but it is hard. I was just thinking of that scene in Black

was just thinking of that scene in Black Adder. Do you remember Black Adder goes

Adder. Do you remember Black Adder goes the second series of the TUDA one where

the second series of the TUDA one where it starts off with a a man who's saying,

it starts off with a a man who's saying, "Oh daughter, we're so poor blah blah

"Oh daughter, we're so poor blah blah blah." And she says, "Yes, father. I'm

blah." And she says, "Yes, father. I'm going to go to London. I'm going to make

going to go to London. I'm going to make my fortune." He says, "No, I want you to

my fortune." He says, "No, I want you to go on the game. Just make a living lying

go on the game. Just make a living lying on your back. It's so much easier. Um,

on your back. It's so much easier. Um, what would you think about your son um

what would you think about your son um having sex with a future Bonnie Blue

having sex with a future Bonnie Blue aged 18 virginity?

aged 18 virginity? >> Yeah. No, I'd be recommending it.

>> Yeah. No, I'd be recommending it. >> You'd be recommending it

>> You'd be recommending it >> 100%. 18 year olds when they lose their

>> 100%. 18 year olds when they lose their virginity. It's an unsafe environment.

virginity. It's an unsafe environment. They've probably been drinking. They're

They've probably been drinking. They're under the influence. They haven't

under the influence. They haven't discussed consent. They haven't

discussed consent. They haven't discussed the choking, the hair pulling,

discussed the choking, the hair pulling, and all of that. And that could be

and all of that. And that could be damaging for him the next day. It could

damaging for him the next day. It could be the girl comes forward and says, "You

be the girl comes forward and says, "You hurt me." or it can just be damaging for

hurt me." or it can just be damaging for them because they're made to feel

them because they're made to feel insecure or they're laughed at for

insecure or they're laughed at for whatever reason. Them being sent to a

whatever reason. Them being sent to a sex worker is a very safe controlled

sex worker is a very safe controlled environment. Um, would you worry about

environment. Um, would you worry about your son, because you've said you're an

your son, because you've said you're an outlier, would you worry about your son

outlier, would you worry about your son contributing to the trauma of that

contributing to the trauma of that woman? Because most sex workers are not

woman? Because most sex workers are not like you personality.

like you personality. >> I probably want to know who they're

>> I probably want to know who they're going to because you could also go to a

going to because you could also go to a sex worker that's just an escort and

sex worker that's just an escort and they don't do the crazy things I do. um

they don't do the crazy things I do. um or like I mean every single person is

or like I mean every single person is different and I'd want to I'd want to

different and I'd want to I'd want to help them. Um because yeah, I wouldn't

help them. Um because yeah, I wouldn't want them to go into someone that

want them to go into someone that absolutely hates it and is doing it

absolutely hates it and is doing it purely for the money and they feel

purely for the money and they feel traumatized from it. So I'd want to help

traumatized from it. So I'd want to help the guy and make sure they go to a se a

the guy and make sure they go to a se a good sex worker. What would you say if

good sex worker. What would you say if your children of either sex?

your children of either sex? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um say they became

>> Um say they became >> uh religious and they decided that

>> uh religious and they decided that actually they wanted to wait until

actually they wanted to wait until marriage to lose their virginity and do

marriage to lose their virginity and do it the traditional way. What would you

it the traditional way. What would you say to that choice?

say to that choice? >> That's fine. Like I think it's sometimes

>> That's fine. Like I think it's sometimes it's lovely when people are really

it's lovely when people are really religious. Um I don't have an issue with

religious. Um I don't have an issue with it. I don't I personally will never be

it. I don't I personally will never be religious. Um but yeah, if they wanted

religious. Um but yeah, if they wanted to, they would. But

to, they would. But >> never say never, Bonnie. That might be

>> never say never, Bonnie. That might be the new challenge.

the new challenge. >> I'm burning in this building right now.

>> I'm burning in this building right now. Um but it's

Um but it's Yeah, if they became religious. I mean,

Yeah, if they became religious. I mean, I can't imagine my children would. Um

I can't imagine my children would. Um but if they did, that's fine. I think

but if they did, that's fine. I think those that do, I think, oh my god, that

those that do, I think, oh my god, that sex you've thought about for about, I

sex you've thought about for about, I don't know, 25 years is going to be

don't know, 25 years is going to be terrible. It isn't going to be good.

terrible. It isn't going to be good. >> Uh, I remember you, I think you were

>> Uh, I remember you, I think you were quoted in an article saying, "I have

quoted in an article saying, "I have never confirmed I was pregnant because I

never confirmed I was pregnant because I would never ever lie about pregnancy,"

would never ever lie about pregnancy," Bonnie added, saying that doing so would

Bonnie added, saying that doing so would be a step too far. Yeah,

be a step too far. Yeah, >> there doesn't seem to be many lines

>> there doesn't seem to be many lines where you would draw and say this is a

where you would draw and say this is a step too far with uh your self-promotion

step too far with uh your self-promotion with the things that you would do, the

with the things that you would do, the things that you would say. You've

things that you would say. You've already mentioned I curate my Tik Tok

already mentioned I curate my Tik Tok 10second hooks to be as annoying to

10second hooks to be as annoying to women as possible.

women as possible. >> What is it about pregnancy that's

>> What is it about pregnancy that's sufficiently sacred that I would never

sufficiently sacred that I would never ever lie about it? doing so would be a

ever lie about it? doing so would be a step too far.

step too far. >> I tried for many well about a year and a

>> I tried for many well about a year and a half with my partner to get pregnant and

half with my partner to get pregnant and I was unsuccessful and I found out if I

I was unsuccessful and I found out if I wanted to conceive it'd have to be

wanted to conceive it'd have to be through IVF. Um which was really hard

through IVF. Um which was really hard especially at the time I would not have

especially at the time I would not have had the money to go through IVF. I would

had the money to go through IVF. I would have had to save up for an you know a

have had to save up for an you know a couple of years and when your friends

couple of years and when your friends around you having children and

around you having children and everyone's falling pregnant so naturally

everyone's falling pregnant so naturally it was very hurtful to to continue to

it was very hurtful to to continue to try and even buy like all the ovulation

try and even buy like all the ovulation tests to help my chances. It was really

tests to help my chances. It was really expensive and I couldn't afford to keep

expensive and I couldn't afford to keep to keep doing it. Um, so yeah, the press

to keep doing it. Um, so yeah, the press in a nutshell, I think this was like

in a nutshell, I think this was like shortly after the thousand was there was

shortly after the thousand was there was rumors saying I was pregnant. It started

rumors saying I was pregnant. It started off on Tik Tok, then it was on Twitter

off on Tik Tok, then it was on Twitter and then Instagram.

and then Instagram. >> Lily Phillips was um doing the same

>> Lily Phillips was um doing the same thing if I remember correctly.

thing if I remember correctly. >> Well, yeah, the rumors had started about

>> Well, yeah, the rumors had started about me on Tik Tok and all these other social

me on Tik Tok and all these other social media platforms. And then journalists

media platforms. And then journalists started reaching out saying, "We want to

started reaching out saying, "We want to we want you to comment on your

we want you to comment on your pregnancy." And we just ignored it for a

pregnancy." And we just ignored it for a couple of days thinking, "Well, we're

couple of days thinking, "Well, we're not commenting. I'm not pregnant. I

not commenting. I'm not pregnant. I don't know where this is coming from."

don't know where this is coming from." and it just continued to escalate. So

and it just continued to escalate. So then I decided, okay, let's play into

then I decided, okay, let's play into this and then we'll use the extra income

this and then we'll use the extra income we get from the more press, the more

we get from the more press, the more views to put towards somebody's IVF

views to put towards somebody's IVF journey. So the only thing I did do was

journey. So the only thing I did do was upload a photo on my Instagram story of

upload a photo on my Instagram story of a pickle covered in chocolate and

a pickle covered in chocolate and sprinkles and put cravings. And then the

sprinkles and put cravings. And then the following day it was, oh, Bonnie

following day it was, oh, Bonnie confirmed she's pregnant. Oh, Bonnie's

confirmed she's pregnant. Oh, Bonnie's comment on the fact she's pregnant. And

comment on the fact she's pregnant. And I hadn't like there was already 10, 20,

I hadn't like there was already 10, 20, 30 articles saying I was pregnant even

30 articles saying I was pregnant even though I hadn't commented. I hadn't said

though I hadn't commented. I hadn't said anything. And that's obviously hurtful.

anything. And that's obviously hurtful. Like I was fine with it, but I knew I

Like I was fine with it, but I knew I couldn't get pregnant. I knew I couldn't

couldn't get pregnant. I knew I couldn't fall pregnant naturally. So that

fall pregnant naturally. So that obviously wasn't very nice. And then I

obviously wasn't very nice. And then I think like 48 hours after that, I did a

think like 48 hours after that, I did a YouTube video and just said, "Look, hey,

YouTube video and just said, "Look, hey, I'm not pregnant." I uploaded one video

I'm not pregnant." I uploaded one video of a pickle. The journalists seem to

of a pickle. The journalists seem to think it's okay to make stories up about

think it's okay to make stories up about a woman in a woman's body without

a woman in a woman's body without understanding my situation.

understanding my situation. >> Sensitive for you.

>> Sensitive for you. >> Yeah, for sure. And I can't get pregnant

>> Yeah, for sure. And I can't get pregnant and I'm going to use this money and I

and I'm going to use this money and I have paid for two people's IVF journeys.

have paid for two people's IVF journeys. Um, since then.

Um, since then. >> Do you think I remember thinking when

>> Do you think I remember thinking when you did the thousand that the most

you did the thousand that the most reliable contraception on the market,

reliable contraception on the market, which is the Marina IUD, it has a one in

which is the Marina IUD, it has a one in a,000 failure rate, right? Um, but I

a,000 failure rate, right? Um, but I guess if you know that actually you

guess if you know that actually you can't conceive naturally. Yeah.

can't conceive naturally. Yeah. >> Do you It doesn't cross your mind even

>> Do you It doesn't cross your mind even though I mean obviously the men wear

though I mean obviously the men wear condoms.

condoms. >> It's not impossible.

>> It's not impossible. >> Condoms fail.

>> Condoms fail. >> Yeah, for sure. It's not impossible. Um,

>> Yeah, for sure. It's not impossible. Um, but yeah, the the chances would be

but yeah, the the chances would be beyond

beyond >> if there's less than one in a thousand

>> if there's less than one in a thousand then

then >> Yeah, it'd be beyond for me to to sort

>> Yeah, it'd be beyond for me to to sort of fall pregnant. So yeah, that's where

of fall pregnant. So yeah, that's where the whole the whole pregnancy thing came

the whole the whole pregnancy thing came from. Um, and that's what I said would

from. Um, and that's what I said would be sort of be too far. And even that I

be sort of be too far. And even that I got backlash when I I then went and did

got backlash when I I then went and did a bit of a press, you know, I think I

a bit of a press, you know, I think I went to Daily Mail and a few other

went to Daily Mail and a few other articles um a few other places and just

articles um a few other places and just did some general press. I think I was

did some general press. I think I was heading to spring break shortly after

heading to spring break shortly after that. And I then they asked me about the

that. And I then they asked me about the pregnancy and they was like, "Why do you

pregnancy and they was like, "Why do you think it was okay to upload a photo of

think it was okay to upload a photo of pickle even though the Daily Mail had

pickle even though the Daily Mail had already uploaded an article prior to

already uploaded an article prior to that saying I was pregnant?" And I was

that saying I was pregnant?" And I was like, "So, it's okay for you to say it

like, "So, it's okay for you to say it and to apparently confirm I'm pregnant,

and to apparently confirm I'm pregnant, but then when I upload a photo of a

but then when I upload a photo of a pickle, I'm the one in the wrong." And

pickle, I'm the one in the wrong." And then mentioned about the IVF journey.

then mentioned about the IVF journey. And the woman was like, "Well, you

And the woman was like, "Well, you should have just done that without ever

should have just done that without ever uploading the photo with the pickle."

uploading the photo with the pickle." And I've said many times, "You don't

And I've said many times, "You don't have to be charitable. If I want to burn

have to be charitable. If I want to burn the money on clothes and whatever I

the money on clothes and whatever I want, I will. But if I also want to help

want, I will. But if I also want to help someone out, I'll do that as well." And

someone out, I'll do that as well." And that's when I I think I became very

that's when I I think I became very aware of no matter what good I do, it

aware of no matter what good I do, it will always be twisted. Even that was

will always be twisted. Even that was put in a very negative light.

>> I'm interested in that particular area of sensitivity.

particular area of sensitivity. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And

>> And you've had uh varying levels of strength

you've had uh varying levels of strength of accusation that you're a psychopath

of accusation that you're a psychopath or um on other corners of ex that you're

or um on other corners of ex that you're possessed by demons. Yeah.

possessed by demons. Yeah. >> Um

>> would you say the reason I asked and kept on pushing about and what did you

kept on pushing about and what did you feel was to try and get that embodied

feel was to try and get that embodied sense from you as somebody who doesn't

sense from you as somebody who doesn't seem to have much discussed sensitivity

seem to have much discussed sensitivity very yeah the tail end LeBron James of

very yeah the tail end LeBron James of socioexuality on the far side.

What how would people have described you as a kid? Would you were you an

as a kid? Would you were you an emotional girl? not emotional in terms

emotional girl? not emotional in terms of crying loads and like really upset

of crying loads and like really upset but I've always been really happy like

but I've always been really happy like and I've recently which has been wrong

and I've recently which has been wrong for me to say like oh I'm not emotional

for me to say like oh I'm not emotional but it's because every time I say I'm

but it's because every time I say I'm not emotional I'm referring to me crying

not emotional I'm referring to me crying and being upset and it's cuz I live a

and being upset and it's cuz I live a very easy happy life so it's very easy

very easy happy life so it's very easy for me to sit here and say I'm not

for me to sit here and say I'm not emotional but

emotional but >> referring to negative emotions probably

>> referring to negative emotions probably >> emotion being happy and smiling and

>> emotion being happy and smiling and laughing that's also so I am emotional

laughing that's also so I am emotional like my I've had the best sort of two

like my I've had the best sort of two weeks of my life and I continue to have

weeks of my life and I continue to have the best days I've ever experienced and

the best days I've ever experienced and I'm very happy and very smiley, but a

I'm very happy and very smiley, but a lot of the time that's not shown in like

lot of the time that's not shown in like podcasts and interviews because I'm

podcasts and interviews because I'm usually being interrogated. I'm being

usually being interrogated. I'm being told I'm disgusted and I'm having to

told I'm disgusted and I'm having to defend myself. So, of course, I'm not

defend myself. So, of course, I'm not going to be sat there smiling and

going to be sat there smiling and laughing. But if you was to watch me,

laughing. But if you was to watch me, you know, when I'm at spring break and

you know, when I'm at spring break and I'm meeting people, I'm nothing but

I'm meeting people, I'm nothing but smiling and happy. So people like to

smiling and happy. So people like to pick and choose which parts they analyze

pick and choose which parts they analyze me or some of them will say I blinked

me or some of them will say I blinked after I said a certain word so that

after I said a certain word so that means x y and zed or I looked a certain

means x y and zed or I looked a certain way and it's like you know I probably

way and it's like you know I probably had something in my eye or I got twitchy

had something in my eye or I got twitchy or I got bored like people think too

or I got bored like people think too much into things. Um but I am an

much into things. Um but I am an emotional person but not in terms of

emotional person but not in terms of crying.

crying. The reason I ask is

The reason I ask is I wonder how formative those 18 months

I wonder how formative those 18 months of trying to get pregnant were

of trying to get pregnant were >> and it does seem like a bit of an

>> and it does seem like a bit of an inflection point in your life. And maybe

inflection point in your life. And maybe this is just part of a marriage that

this is just part of a marriage that wasn't right and a bunch of things

wasn't right and a bunch of things coalesed at the same time.

coalesed at the same time. >> Maybe you did get some sort of

>> Maybe you did get some sort of realization. Maybe this was one

realization. Maybe this was one realization that caused a bunch of

realization that caused a bunch of different torpedoes to be fired at

different torpedoes to be fired at different areas of your life. I'm going

different areas of your life. I'm going to do in terms of a career, what I'm

to do in terms of a career, what I'm going to do in terms of a future, what

going to do in terms of a future, what I'm going to see myself as, my level of

I'm going to see myself as, my level of >> sexual openness, my current partner. Um,

>> sexual openness, my current partner. Um, all of that together plus

all of that together plus I would never ever lie about pregnancy

I would never ever lie about pregnancy to me showed potentially uh laid an

to me showed potentially uh laid an explanation that hm how much of this is

explanation that hm how much of this is the blast radius of [ __ ] I really

the blast radius of [ __ ] I really wanted kids and it turned out that I

wanted kids and it turned out that I couldn't get them and I'm now

couldn't get them and I'm now >> coping.

>> coping. >> Yeah, I completely see that. But I if I

>> Yeah, I completely see that. But I if I wanted to be with my ex, I could have

wanted to be with my ex, I could have been. If I then wanted to get pay for

been. If I then wanted to get pay for IVF, I'm in a situation where I could

IVF, I'm in a situation where I could pay for it for myself now. So, if it was

pay for it for myself now. So, if it was I was still doing this because I'm

I was still doing this because I'm trying to pay for IVF or I'm wanting my

trying to pay for IVF or I'm wanting my ex back, I'd completely agree. But I

ex back, I'd completely agree. But I couldn't get the divorce through

couldn't get the divorce through quicker. Um, and I'm not in a situation

quicker. Um, and I'm not in a situation at the moment I don't want children. I

at the moment I don't want children. I was so fixated back then because I was

was so fixated back then because I was actually missing happiness in my life. I

actually missing happiness in my life. I think I'm

think I'm to a certain degree grateful I didn't

to a certain degree grateful I didn't fall pregnant because I my life would

fall pregnant because I my life would have been very different and as much as

have been very different and as much as children bring a lot of happiness for me

children bring a lot of happiness for me I was thinking I was more doing it

I was thinking I was more doing it because all my friends was I just got

because all my friends was I just got married everyone was asking me a lot

married everyone was asking me a lot including my family like when are you

including my family like when are you when you going to have children and when

when you going to have children and when you start a family for for yourself and

you start a family for for yourself and I think I just started to think okay I

I think I just started to think okay I don't feel overly happy what's missing

don't feel overly happy what's missing oh it's children

oh it's children really it was having freedom flexibility

really it was having freedom flexibility traveling and doing all the things I

traveling and doing all the things I wanted to do, but I kept thinking I was

wanted to do, but I kept thinking I was too old to do or oh, I've passed that

too old to do or oh, I've passed that now or I can't just go traveling around

now or I can't just go traveling around the world and go on crazy holidays. I've

the world and go on crazy holidays. I've not got the money or I've not got the

not got the money or I've not got the the time for it. I presume that um this

the time for it. I presume that um this period of trying to get pregnant was

period of trying to get pregnant was before you started camming.

before you started camming. >> Yes. Do you think then that going into

>> Yes. Do you think then that going into because you talked about how actually

because you talked about how actually before then you had a low body count and

before then you had a low body count and actually you were pretty like sexually

actually you were pretty like sexually conservative. Um, do you think that

conservative. Um, do you think that learning about your infertility

learning about your infertility changed your whole attitude toward sex?

changed your whole attitude toward sex? Made it more like a hobby cuz obviously

Made it more like a hobby cuz obviously that is the way that like humans come

that is the way that like humans come into the world is through sex. It has

into the world is through sex. It has it's in we were all conceived in that

it's in we were all conceived in that way

way >> apart from IVF, you know, but that's a

>> apart from IVF, you know, but that's a recent thing. Um, so there is an

recent thing. Um, so there is an obviously meaningful consequential thing

obviously meaningful consequential thing built into it, but if it can't lead to

built into it, but if it can't lead to conception, do you think do you think

conception, do you think do you think that's fed into your feeling that it's

that's fed into your feeling that it's just a hobby? It doesn't matter.

just a hobby? It doesn't matter. Commoditize it, whatever.

Commoditize it, whatever. >> Uh, no. Completely get where you're

>> Uh, no. Completely get where you're coming from. But I was never having sex

coming from. But I was never having sex only on my ovulation days. I was only

only on my ovulation days. I was only having sex on the days I thought I was

having sex on the days I thought I was going to conceive. So sex, even when I,

going to conceive. So sex, even when I, you know, wasn't trying to get pregnant,

you know, wasn't trying to get pregnant, was a hobby with my partner. I did it

was a hobby with my partner. I did it just for the pleasure. Um, so no, if I

just for the pleasure. Um, so no, if I was only having sex prior to that around

was only having sex prior to that around ovulation, then yeah, I'd completely

ovulation, then yeah, I'd completely agree. But I don't think as much as it

agree. But I don't think as much as it was hurtful and it was a very difficult

was hurtful and it was a very difficult time when I tried to get pregnant, I

time when I tried to get pregnant, I don't think it's had any knock on

don't think it's had any knock on effect. I mean, to a certain degree it

effect. I mean, to a certain degree it has, cuz it's made me, I guess, more

has, cuz it's made me, I guess, more sensitive towards the subject, which is

sensitive towards the subject, which is why I'm so strong about I wouldn't lie

why I'm so strong about I wouldn't lie on it. Um, and it's made me want to help

on it. Um, and it's made me want to help people because I think it's horrible

people because I think it's horrible that so many people try. I mean, some

that so many people try. I mean, some people they've got six kids, they

people they've got six kids, they couldn't give a [ __ ] they're not eating

couldn't give a [ __ ] they're not eating properly, they're, you know, they're

properly, they're, you know, they're tramps and they can still pop out kids.

tramps and they can still pop out kids. And there's some people that would offer

And there's some people that would offer the most beautiful family and beautiful

the most beautiful family and beautiful homes and they they can't unfortunately

homes and they they can't unfortunately have children. So, I guess it made me

have children. So, I guess it made me more sensitive on the subject, but it's

more sensitive on the subject, but it's not left me then thinking, "Oh, I'll do

not left me then thinking, "Oh, I'll do sex as a hobby or change my opinion

sex as a hobby or change my opinion >> on sex." I don't think too deeply on

>> on sex." I don't think too deeply on some things. I take things as they are.

some things. I take things as they are. Oh, this made me feel like this. Okay,

Oh, this made me feel like this. Okay, great. Well, I'm going to deal with it

great. Well, I'm going to deal with it and then I move on. I don't drag

and then I move on. I don't drag emotions.

emotions. >> Ultimate basian update thinker there

>> Ultimate basian update thinker there like just permanently upgrading your

like just permanently upgrading your worldview. What

worldview. What somebody that's dissecting the micro

somebody that's dissecting the micro expressions of a pawn star nonypical.

expressions of a pawn star nonypical. Why do you think people are fascinated

Why do you think people are fascinated by the Bonnie Blue question?

by the Bonnie Blue question? >> I think it's because of your outlier

>> I think it's because of your outlier status. You're so unusual. I mean, I

status. You're so unusual. I mean, I guess in both senses that that you are

guess in both senses that that you are almost an outcast as well, like you've

almost an outcast as well, like you've chosen this. You've chosen to be

chosen this. You've chosen to be >> the most hated woman in Britain. Your

>> the most hated woman in Britain. Your words

words >> and

>> and >> Yeah. I mean, you said you've said a few

>> Yeah. I mean, you said you've said a few times in this conversation that you're

times in this conversation that you're not intelligent. I've heard you say that

not intelligent. I've heard you say that elsewhere. I think you're actually

elsewhere. I think you're actually really intelligent.

really intelligent. >> I am, but on things that like you won't

>> I am, but on things that like you won't want me on a pub quiz. You won't I don't

want me on a pub quiz. You won't I don't I'm not good at geography and all of

I'm not good at geography and all of that. Like, and there's loads of things

that. Like, and there's loads of things about the world that I probably should

about the world that I probably should know, but I have no interest in.

know, but I have no interest in. >> But you're very quick.

>> But you're very quick. >> Yeah. Like I'm if you was to question me

>> Yeah. Like I'm if you was to question me on sex and 18 year olds, the reason I

on sex and 18 year olds, the reason I never

never >> expert.

>> expert. >> Yeah, I am. Like it's because that's

>> Yeah, I am. Like it's because that's what I enjoy. That's what I do each day.

what I enjoy. That's what I do each day. But even with that, these loads I don't

But even with that, these loads I don't know and I don't pretend to know. But I

know and I don't pretend to know. But I get asked sometimes really intelligent

get asked sometimes really intelligent questions. I think don't understand half

questions. I think don't understand half the words you've just shued used. I

the words you've just shued used. I don't know what's going off, but like

don't know what's going off, but like I'm never claiming I know everything.

I'm never claiming I know everything. Like I simply don't.

Like I simply don't. >> Yeah. One of the things I've I've I've

>> Yeah. One of the things I've I've I've noticed in how you talk about people is

noticed in how you talk about people is that you'll you'll be you'll be so um

that you'll you'll be you'll be so um non-judgmental about say men being fat

non-judgmental about say men being fat or all this kind of the physical stuff

or all this kind of the physical stuff etc. Um one group though that you that

etc. Um one group though that you that you are consistently judgmental towards

you are consistently judgmental towards are lazy people.

are lazy people. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> People who don't work, benefit scers,

>> People who don't work, benefit scers, you know that kind of and they're the

you know that kind of and they're the ones that complain about life the most.

ones that complain about life the most. And I think you lazy [ __ ] get off and do

And I think you lazy [ __ ] get off and do something about it. leg. Unless your

something about it. leg. Unless your arms and legs are chopped off, you can

arms and legs are chopped off, you can probably get up and do something about

probably get up and do something about it. And that goes for people other

it. And that goes for people other people as well. Like if you're

people as well. Like if you're complaining about something, they're the

complaining about something, they're the ones that blame everyone else and

ones that blame everyone else and they're unhappy, they're miserable, and

they're unhappy, they're miserable, and they take zero responsibility for it.

they take zero responsibility for it. Like I take responsibility for my

Like I take responsibility for my actions. And I have taken my life in my

actions. And I have taken my life in my control. And even if I'm talking about

control. And even if I'm talking about to family or friends and they're

to family or friends and they're complaining about something, I'm like,

complaining about something, I'm like, "Do something about it. Don't keep

"Do something about it. Don't keep coming to me with the same issues

coming to me with the same issues because you're gonna have a very blunt

because you're gonna have a very blunt answer.

answer. >> You're a very high agency person.

>> You're a very high agency person. >> High agency. What does that mean?

>> High agency. What does that mean? >> In that you you set your mind to

>> In that you you set your mind to something and you just make it happen.

something and you just make it happen. >> For sure. And a lot of people aren't

>> For sure. And a lot of people aren't like that. And I wonder I mean cuz so

like that. And I wonder I mean cuz so many people are are interested in you

many people are are interested in you because they see you as strange and they

because they see you as strange and they that you confuse them. Do you feel the

that you confuse them. Do you feel the other way? Like do you ever struggle to

other way? Like do you ever struggle to empathize with why say some women really

empathize with why say some women really wouldn't want to have sex in the way

wouldn't want to have sex in the way that you do or some people are really

that you do or some people are really upset by negative criticism or do you

upset by negative criticism or do you find more normal people confusing

find more normal people confusing because I'm actually so normal like I

because I'm actually so normal like I >> you know sorry sorry Bonnie I really

>> you know sorry sorry Bonnie I really need to stop you there that's not true

need to stop you there that's not true >> like aides from you know the

>> like aides from you know the >> everything we've talked about

>> everything we've talked about >> my dayto-day life you would be amazed

>> my dayto-day life you would be amazed like if you knew me say if didn't have a

like if you knew me say if didn't have a phone, you didn't go on the internet,

phone, you didn't go on the internet, and you didn't know I did what I did,

and you didn't know I did what I did, and you just knew me as a person. You

and you just knew me as a person. You would never add up me as a person does

would never add up me as a person does this because I am surprisingly normal. I

this because I am surprisingly normal. I always say I'm just a girl. I'm actually

always say I'm just a girl. I'm actually very simple with what I enjoy. I'm not

very simple with what I enjoy. I'm not high maintenance. I'm

high maintenance. I'm >> spending money on cuz you've got so

>> spending money on cuz you've got so much. Like, do you have really expensive

much. Like, do you have really expensive toasts?

toasts? >> Um, I spend a lot on fashion. Like, I

>> Um, I spend a lot on fashion. Like, I really enjoy um sort of the fashion side

really enjoy um sort of the fashion side of things. Memories. Like I would sell

of things. Memories. Like I would sell every single item of clothing I have to

every single item of clothing I have to make memories. Like I recently went to

make memories. Like I recently went to the moldies and went snorkeling. It was

the moldies and went snorkeling. It was the most beautiful experience. Like I'd

the most beautiful experience. Like I'd always choose memories over anything

always choose memories over anything materialistic. Um but it's hard to burn

materialistic. Um but it's hard to burn through so much money to be honest. So I

through so much money to be honest. So I save a lot.

save a lot. >> I remember look uh Chelsea Ferguson. Do

>> I remember look uh Chelsea Ferguson. Do you remember her?

you remember her? >> I recognize the name.

>> I recognize the name. >> Admire me.Vvip. She was the girl that

>> Admire me.Vvip. She was the girl that founded that which was a early British

founded that which was a early British competitor to Only Fans.

competitor to Only Fans. >> Oh okay. Yeah.

>> Oh okay. Yeah. >> Charles Ferggo. the this I'm dating

>> Charles Ferggo. the this I'm dating myself a little bit here, but she was

myself a little bit here, but she was sort of the Jordie Shaw world of this.

sort of the Jordie Shaw world of this. She was huge on Snapchat and she was

She was huge on Snapchat and she was like a proto Bonnie Blue. Yeah.

like a proto Bonnie Blue. Yeah. >> Uh in one way. I'll never forget that

>> Uh in one way. I'll never forget that she did a stunt that was her outside of

she did a stunt that was her outside of her brand new four bed new build house

her brand new four bed new build house in Darlington somewhere in the northeast

in Darlington somewhere in the northeast of the UK and there was a brand new

of the UK and there was a brand new range and a brand new land a brand new

range and a brand new land a brand new Lambo and the front of the number plates

Lambo and the front of the number plates on both sides were Charles Ferggo you

on both sides were Charles Ferggo you know some custom number plate and it

know some custom number plate and it said uh all this from showing pictures

said uh all this from showing pictures of my fanny help me put petrol in my

of my fanny help me put petrol in my Lambo atmy.vip/chellsfgo VIP/

Lambo atmy.vip/chellsfgo VIP/ Shellsfoggo. So

Shellsfoggo. So the rage bait drive clicks through

the rage bait drive clicks through flash on lifestyle and that's in some

flash on lifestyle and that's in some ways more materialistic. I don't know if

ways more materialistic. I don't know if I've ever seen you flex wealth.

I've ever seen you flex wealth. >> Like I mean I've got a Ferrari and I

>> Like I mean I've got a Ferrari and I posted that cuz it was quite fun. Like

posted that cuz it was quite fun. Like the number plate spells porn. The seats

the number plate spells porn. The seats say Bonnie blue. Uh the whole thing is

say Bonnie blue. Uh the whole thing is blue. Like

blue. Like >> you went very subtle with it.

>> you went very subtle with it. >> Yeah. Like it's I mean it's like a work

>> Yeah. Like it's I mean it's like a work thing. Like if that gets spotted around,

thing. Like if that gets spotted around, people take photos, you upload it

people take photos, you upload it online.

online. >> Okay. Yeah. Business expense.

>> Okay. Yeah. Business expense. >> The first thing I asked, I was like,

>> The first thing I asked, I was like, "Does it fit through McDonald's

"Does it fit through McDonald's drive-thru?" Since they've said no, I've

drive-thru?" Since they've said no, I've never driven it. I've got no interest in

never driven it. I've got no interest in it.

it. >> I posted that. But aside from that, I

>> I posted that. But aside from that, I don't like share a lot of the things

don't like share a lot of the things that I sort of spend my money on. Like I

that I sort of spend my money on. Like I want to post a bit more about fashion

want to post a bit more about fashion and and clothes cuz I know if I was

and and clothes cuz I know if I was watching that as a girl I've been

watching that as a girl I've been treated on oh how much like I'll go and

treated on oh how much like I'll go and drop on a shopping trip like 50k and I

drop on a shopping trip like 50k and I don't think anything of it. It's just a

don't think anything of it. It's just a a normal shopping trip whereas that

a normal shopping trip whereas that would have been a house deposit plus

would have been a house deposit plus more when I was younger.

more when I was younger. >> What do you reckon you'll net this year?

>> What do you reckon you'll net this year? >> A lot of money. A very comfortable

>> A lot of money. A very comfortable living.

living. >> Can you get anywhere close in a range?

>> Can you get anywhere close in a range? >> Um no but I live a nice life is what

>> Um no but I live a nice life is what I'll say. Um,

I'll say. Um, >> I've heard you say that, um, I think

>> I've heard you say that, um, I think this is in the Channel 4 doc, so it

this is in the Channel 4 doc, so it would have been filmed a little while

would have been filmed a little while ago, that you you were currently you

ago, that you you were currently you were at the time earning a million a

were at the time earning a million a month and your goal was to earn 5

month and your goal was to earn 5 million a month.

million a month. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And I thought listening to that,

>> And I thought listening to that, >> once you're at a million a month,

>> once you're at a million a month, >> like what else? What are you going to

>> like what else? What are you going to spend the rest of that money on? It

spend the rest of that money on? It becomes just a numbers game at that

becomes just a numbers game at that point.

point. >> For sure. Like I've always said I want

>> For sure. Like I've always said I want to hit 5 mil and I think I will hit 5

to hit 5 mil and I think I will hit 5 mil a month at some point. But if it

mil a month at some point. But if it came at a cost of my happiness, I'd stop

came at a cost of my happiness, I'd stop because my life ever since I started

because my life ever since I started earning a certain bracket didn't really

earning a certain bracket didn't really change. Um maybe when I went from, you

change. Um maybe when I went from, you know, 50k a month to 400 there was a big

know, 50k a month to 400 there was a big difference and then 400 to the million

difference and then 400 to the million probably a bit. But even that there

probably a bit. But even that there wasn't much of a change. Um I don't have

wasn't much of a change. Um I don't have like yes I have expensive taste and I do

like yes I have expensive taste and I do burn through money quite quickly but the

burn through money quite quickly but the main thing I want is just happiness and

main thing I want is just happiness and memories and yes you do need money for

memories and yes you do need money for some memories like some of the trips I

some memories like some of the trips I went on was you know we hired the boat

went on was you know we hired the boat for the day and I didn't think anything

for the day and I didn't think anything of it or just a yeah of course I'll hide

of it or just a yeah of course I'll hide the boat no I don't want other people on

the boat no I don't want other people on the boat I I want it to myself and

the boat I I want it to myself and things like that is what I'm beyond

things like that is what I'm beyond grateful for like if I was ever having a

grateful for like if I was ever having a tough day I'd look back at things like

tough day I'd look back at things like that and think How lucky am I? And lucky

that and think How lucky am I? And lucky is not always the best word because no

is not always the best word because no one's given me this. Um,

one's given me this. Um, >> but I do just feel every day so lucky

>> but I do just feel every day so lucky and so grateful to have the people

and so grateful to have the people around me I do in the life I live. Um, I

around me I do in the life I live. Um, I don't know. I just to most people I live

don't know. I just to most people I live the most disgusting life. But to me, I

the most disgusting life. But to me, I couldn't wish for a more beautiful life.

couldn't wish for a more beautiful life. >> Beautiful life, Louise.

>> Beautiful life, Louise. >> To each their own. I suppose

>> To each their own. I suppose >> I believe you when you say that. It's

>> I believe you when you say that. It's just it's just the wider effect

just it's just the wider effect >> for sure.

>> for sure. >> I think it helps that I'm selfish cuz I

>> I think it helps that I'm selfish cuz I don't care. Like, you know, if someone's

don't care. Like, you know, if someone's saying, "Look, you're having a really

saying, "Look, you're having a really bad knockoff effect. You've ruined my

bad knockoff effect. You've ruined my marriage."

marriage." >> Um, I'd be putting on my flippers and

>> Um, I'd be putting on my flippers and snorkel and thinking, "That's your

snorkel and thinking, "That's your problem."

problem." >> You never get that like

>> You never get that like tummy broiling, hands shaking, like

tummy broiling, hands shaking, like feeling. You never feel um nervous in

feeling. You never feel um nervous in conflict or those kind of physical

conflict or those kind of physical sensations. If someone were to say

sensations. If someone were to say something like that to you, you've

something like that to you, you've ruined my life, Bonnie.

ruined my life, Bonnie. >> No, I'd say like I'd want to understand

>> No, I'd say like I'd want to understand why maybe. Um,

why maybe. Um, >> but you'd be steady like a like a top

>> but you'd be steady like a like a top surgeon.

surgeon. >> It'd be more like I'm going to

>> It'd be more like I'm going to understand why, but it's not me. I

understand why, but it's not me. I didn't do it. The fact I don't know your

didn't do it. The fact I don't know your name shows I didn't ruin your life. I

name shows I didn't ruin your life. I didn't There's something there's a lack

didn't There's something there's a lack of I think most things is communication.

of I think most things is communication. Like if I've ruined your marriage,

Like if I've ruined your marriage, there's a lack of communication there.

there's a lack of communication there. And I'm not saying that's every case,

And I'm not saying that's every case, but for most things, whether that's

but for most things, whether that's friendships, your job's not worked, your

friendships, your job's not worked, your relationship's not worked, it's simple.

relationship's not worked, it's simple. It's communication.

It's communication. >> You were about to say, can I ask?

>> You were about to say, can I ask? >> Can I ask a basic question? Why did you

>> Can I ask a basic question? Why did you choose the name Bonnie Blue? Bonnie's

choose the name Bonnie Blue? Bonnie's quite an old lady name.

quite an old lady name. >> I know. Yeah, I think it's quite nice.

>> I know. Yeah, I think it's quite nice. It's quite traditional. Um, I wish I

It's quite traditional. Um, I wish I could tell you a really interesting

could tell you a really interesting story, but I just Googled porn names and

story, but I just Googled porn names and it was like a porn translator. Not

it was like a porn translator. Not translator. What's the word?

translator. What's the word? >> Generator. B.

>> Generator. B. >> Yeah. And the word Bonnie Be came up.

>> Yeah. And the word Bonnie Be came up. you put. So, I chose Bonnie and then you

you put. So, I chose Bonnie and then you chose one from the other side and it was

chose one from the other side and it was blue.

blue. But I never knew it was going to be like

But I never knew it was going to be like this. I thought I was going to be a cam

this. I thought I was going to be a cam girl. No one's going to know about it.

girl. No one's going to know about it. But I love the name Bonnie Blue now.

But I love the name Bonnie Blue now. Like it's, you know, I guess quite

Like it's, you know, I guess quite catchy. It's very easy to remember. I

catchy. It's very easy to remember. I love the color blue. Um, Ver Bonnie is

love the color blue. Um, Ver Bonnie is quite a traditional name. Um, but yeah,

quite a traditional name. Um, but yeah, it was honestly thought within about two

it was honestly thought within about two minutes, if that.

minutes, if that. >> What do you think about people that call

>> What do you think about people that call you a victim?

you a victim? a victim of war. Like these videos, I

a victim of war. Like these videos, I see women all the time on Tik Tok

see women all the time on Tik Tok saying, "Oh, she was sexually assaulted

saying, "Oh, she was sexually assaulted as a ch child. Oh, she's been through

as a ch child. Oh, she's been through all this." And I think you're you think

all this." And I think you're you think I'm sick. You're sick. You've just found

I'm sick. You're sick. You've just found a photo of me on Google from when I was

a photo of me on Google from when I was about 10, 11 years old and then made up

about 10, 11 years old and then made up a sex sex story. You've made up that

a sex sex story. You've made up that I've been sexually assaulted. Like, how

I've been sexually assaulted. Like, how disturbed are you to do that in your

disturbed are you to do that in your spare time? And the only Tik Tok I've

spare time? And the only Tik Tok I've seen that's really hurt me was a video

seen that's really hurt me was a video got uploaded of this woman talking and

got uploaded of this woman talking and in the background was a photo of me and

in the background was a photo of me and my granddad that passed away saying,

my granddad that passed away saying, "Oh, he sexually assaulted me as a

"Oh, he sexually assaulted me as a child." And I think, why why would you

child." And I think, why why would you ever look at a photo, you've gone out

ever look at a photo, you've gone out your way to find that and then make up a

your way to find that and then make up a story and apparently I'm the disturbed

story and apparently I'm the disturbed one. Um,

one. Um, so yeah, it's

so yeah, it's some negative comments do get you only

some negative comments do get you only that. Um because that went quite viral.

that. Um because that went quite viral. It was when I like only just sort of

It was when I like only just sort of just started and that made me really

just started and that made me really think, wow, I've really dragged my

think, wow, I've really dragged my family through this cuz I chose to do

family through this cuz I chose to do this but

this but >> my family didn't.

>> my family didn't. >> Bonnie Blue is a victimhood status.

>> Bonnie Blue is a victimhood status. Louise,

Louise, >> no. I don't think you're a victim. Yeah,

>> no. I don't think you're a victim. Yeah, I think that most women in the sex

I think that most women in the sex industry are at least to some extent.

industry are at least to some extent. Like it's it's a complicated

Like it's it's a complicated combination. Um, I do think that you're

combination. Um, I do think that you're really unusual and but there is a

really unusual and but there is a problem though, right, with that most

problem though, right, with that most people don't know that. They can't tell

people don't know that. They can't tell that.

that. >> The fact that you it can be very

>> The fact that you it can be very difficult to tell at first glance the

difficult to tell at first glance the difference between say you and Lily

difference between say you and Lily Phillips.

Phillips. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And you you think one smiles, one cries,

>> And you you think one smiles, one cries, >> I suppose. So, but sometimes they leave

>> I suppose. So, but sometimes they leave sometimes they leave smiles. Some people

sometimes they leave smiles. Some people can be really good at faking it. And

can be really good at faking it. And some people as well, it can be when

some people as well, it can be when they're actually in when they're in it,

they're actually in when they're in it, they they get through by convincing

they they get through by convincing themselves that it's okay and they will

themselves that it's okay and they will sort of tell themselves a story. Almost

sort of tell themselves a story. Almost like if you're in an abusive

like if you're in an abusive relationship and when you're in it,

relationship and when you're in it, you'll be like, "Oh, he loves me. It's

you'll be like, "Oh, he loves me. It's fine." And then it's only later when

fine." And then it's only later when you've left it that you're able to

you've left it that you're able to realize quite how horrible it was. And

realize quite how horrible it was. And that's quite a common story in the sex

that's quite a common story in the sex industry.

industry. >> Um,

>> Um, >> I mean, do you think that there are

>> I mean, do you think that there are women who aspire to be like you in terms

women who aspire to be like you in terms of the wealth in particular? women in

of the wealth in particular? women in the sex industry and who are putting

the sex industry and who are putting themselves through trauma to try and

themselves through trauma to try and compete with you, not realizing that

compete with you, not realizing that they just don't have what it takes in

they just don't have what it takes in terms of the psychology.

terms of the psychology. >> I mean, I've seen it online before.

>> I mean, I've seen it online before. There's obviously people crying. There's

There's obviously people crying. There's been people that have, you know, been

been people that have, you know, been hospitalized. Um, all of which then

hospitalized. Um, all of which then given credit because, you know, people

given credit because, you know, people see them being vulnerable and they're

see them being vulnerable and they're like, "Oh my god, that person's crying

like, "Oh my god, that person's crying or that person's gone to hostile." And

or that person's gone to hostile." And then I get the hate because I'm not

then I get the hate because I'm not crying or not being hospitalized. And

crying or not being hospitalized. And >> it is it's not easy. Like I say it's

>> it is it's not easy. Like I say it's easy because it's easy for me because it

easy because it's easy for me because it comes very natural and I know my body

comes very natural and I know my body limits, but I wouldn't necessarily

limits, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to loads of people. It's

recommend it to loads of people. It's you've got to do what's best for you and

you've got to do what's best for you and you've got to focus on happiness because

you've got to focus on happiness because you could have all the money in the

you could have all the money in the world. You could have the biggest

world. You could have the biggest following. It's all honestly pointless

following. It's all honestly pointless if you aren't happy. Um so I don't think

if you aren't happy. Um so I don't think you should ever copy anyone else. And I

you should ever copy anyone else. And I think that's how I've been able to stay

think that's how I've been able to stay happy as well because no one's ever done

happy as well because no one's ever done what I've done that they've done it

what I've done that they've done it afterwards or tried to but I'm not

afterwards or tried to but I'm not following anyone. Like the things I'm

following anyone. Like the things I'm even doing this month, no one's ever

even doing this month, no one's ever done before. So no, I'm not looking at

done before. So no, I'm not looking at >> What have you done this month?

>> What have you done this month? >> This month I've just had a Bonnie Blue

>> This month I've just had a Bonnie Blue Bang Bus made and I'm starting off at

Bang Bus made and I'm starting off at Scotland which is at the top of the

Scotland which is at the top of the country and working my way down and I'm

country and working my way down and I'm going to visit loads of universities to

going to visit loads of universities to [ __ ] the students.

[ __ ] the students. >> Right. So

>> Right. So >> on the road,

>> on the road, >> not aware of anyone having done that

>> not aware of anyone having done that before. So

before. So >> yeah, it honestly looks really cool.

>> yeah, it honestly looks really cool. It's like a blue.

It's like a blue. >> Of course, blue. It says Bonnie Blue on

>> Of course, blue. It says Bonnie Blue on it. Bonnie Blues Bang Bus in really big

it. Bonnie Blues Bang Bus in really big writing.

writing. >> Mhm. There any legal ramifications about

>> Mhm. There any legal ramifications about that?

that? >> No. Um I mean my family

>> No. Um I mean my family >> Imagine you must have a [ __ ] attorney

>> Imagine you must have a [ __ ] attorney law team for this.

law team for this. >> Not really. No. Like you're having as

>> Not really. No. Like you're having as long as I can park up. I mean people

long as I can park up. I mean people have sex in the car, don't they?

have sex in the car, don't they? >> Not convinced that's legal.

>> Not convinced that's legal. >> No. Well, maybe in the hotel or their

>> No. Well, maybe in the hotel or their dorm rooms they can invite me in.

dorm rooms they can invite me in. >> I would get someone to check that

>> I would get someone to check that >> first. I do think a strong legal council

>> first. I do think a strong legal council might be a good idea because just Well,

might be a good idea because just Well, my point being that

my point being that [ __ ] hell,

[ __ ] hell, >> I have people check things over like

>> I have people check things over like before we do it as well cuz I I

before we do it as well cuz I I understand I like to reach limits. So,

understand I like to reach limits. So, I've got to fully understand where that

I've got to fully understand where that limit is cuz everyone wants to arrest

limit is cuz everyone wants to arrest me. Everyone, not the police, but

me. Everyone, not the police, but everyone online's like, "I phoned the

everyone online's like, "I phoned the police on her today. I've reported and

police on her today. I've reported and I'm like, reported me for what? Like, oh

I'm like, reported me for what? Like, oh my god, she's slept with a barely

my god, she's slept with a barely legal." the second one and that is

legal." the second one and that is legal. So, you're an idiot. Um, but

legal. So, you're an idiot. Um, but yeah, I do make sure everything I do is

yeah, I do make sure everything I do is is legal because I'd be the first

is legal because I'd be the first person. Like I see some of the Tik Toks

person. Like I see some of the Tik Toks or some of the social media other off

or some of the social media other off girls or fancy girls do to promote their

girls or fancy girls do to promote their socials. I think, God, if I had done

socials. I think, God, if I had done that, I'd been arrested instantly or I

that, I'd been arrested instantly or I would have my socials taken.

would have my socials taken. >> Um, I think you get a harder time. You

>> Um, I think you get a harder time. You have more haters because you don't come

have more haters because you don't come across as a victim and because you never

across as a victim and because you never cry.

cry. >> That's why I get more hate.

>> That's why I get more hate. >> You don't any sympathy. Sympathy is such

>> You don't any sympathy. Sympathy is such a huge driving force.

a huge driving force. >> Uh so much so that

>> Uh so much so that >> you saying I am not a victim. Victim of

>> you saying I am not a victim. Victim of what? Uh has not managed to dispel

what? Uh has not managed to dispel people calling you a victim.

people calling you a victim. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Uh

>> Uh >> I think it's a shame because so many

>> I think it's a shame because so many people are victims and it's taken away

people are victims and it's taken away from them like focus on them, help them

from them like focus on them, help them like leave me you know I'm too far gone

like leave me you know I'm too far gone as some people say but I am not a victim

as some people say but I am not a victim of anything. I'm in control and that

of anything. I'm in control and that scares people.

scares people. >> I think a lot of people are desperate to

>> I think a lot of people are desperate to think that you're a victim. A lot of

think that you're a victim. A lot of women. Yeah.

women. Yeah. >> Because they are so disturbed at the

>> Because they are so disturbed at the thought that you actually like it.

thought that you actually like it. >> Yeah. And that is okay. But don't make

>> Yeah. And that is okay. But don't make up I'm a victim or don't make up sexual

up I'm a victim or don't make up sexual stories from when I was a child. Like

stories from when I was a child. Like >> it's [ __ ] up.

>> it's [ __ ] up. >> Is there anything that you still don't

>> Is there anything that you still don't understand about Bonnie?

understand about Bonnie? >> I think that you're a marvel of science.

>> I think that you're a marvel of science. We might have to Yeah. Yeah, I mean I'm

We might have to Yeah. Yeah, I mean I'm sure cuz I'm sure there's something we

sure cuz I'm sure there's something we were talking earlier about this this

were talking earlier about this this scan, right, where you can check, you

scan, right, where you can check, you know, your cortisol levels and all this

know, your cortisol levels and all this sort of stuff to

sort of stuff to >> um to understand the the chemistry of

>> um to understand the the chemistry of your psychology.

your psychology. >> I mean, I would guess I'd love you to do

>> I mean, I would guess I'd love you to do a big five personality test if you've

a big five personality test if you've never done one.

never done one. >> Why is that?

>> Why is that? >> It's like a it's like the gold standard

>> It's like a it's like the gold standard of psychometric testing for personality.

of psychometric testing for personality. So, it's things like your consciousness.

So, it's things like your consciousness. I would guess you're really industrious.

I would guess you're really industrious. >> I was going to say do a do a some of

>> I was going to say do a do a some of these words. I don't know what you say

these words. I don't know what you say yet.

yet. >> It's okay. We'll Louise will be able to

>> It's okay. We'll Louise will be able to say bring it bring it down bring it down

say bring it bring it down bring it down to well uh do a big five analysis just

to well uh do a big five analysis just based on

based on >> my guess. Yeah. Okay. So there so there

>> my guess. Yeah. Okay. So there so there are five facets obviously.

are five facets obviously. >> Can I add in the fact I love animals?

>> Can I add in the fact I love animals? >> Does that affect her?

>> Does that affect her? >> Yeah, maybe. Um

>> Yeah, maybe. Um >> I don't think there's a dimension for

>> I don't think there's a dimension for loving animals but it probably

loving animals but it probably >> before that gets busted. I mean like I

>> before that gets busted. I mean like I love animals.

love animals. >> So the five facets are um openness to

>> So the five facets are um openness to experience. I think you're off the

experience. I think you're off the charts.

charts. >> 100 percentile.

>> 100 percentile. >> Yeah. Um conscientiousness. So meaning

>> Yeah. Um conscientiousness. So meaning like your how hard you work, like

like your how hard you work, like showing up on time, being really

showing up on time, being really diligent, again, off the charts.

diligent, again, off the charts. >> Extraversion.

>> Extraversion. >> What does that mean?

>> What does that mean? >> You tell me like how do you get

>> You tell me like how do you get exhausted from talking to people all day

exhausted from talking to people all day or could you just talk all day?

or could you just talk all day? >> No, I I could talk. I get sometimes

>> No, I I could talk. I get sometimes bored of answering the same questions.

bored of answering the same questions. Like I did an interview yesterday and it

Like I did an interview yesterday and it was the same [ __ ] Oh, your family don't

was the same [ __ ] Oh, your family don't love you. Your family this, family that.

love you. Your family this, family that. I'm like, look, I'm generally bored of

I'm like, look, I'm generally bored of it. Like I can understand why you'd

it. Like I can understand why you'd think it, but like so I sometimes get

think it, but like so I sometimes get bored of answering the same things. Like

bored of answering the same things. Like I love that these questions today have

I love that these questions today have been very different. Usually I sound

been very different. Usually I sound like a robot and it's probably why I

like a robot and it's probably why I become so switched off because as soon

become so switched off because as soon as you start the question usually I

as you start the question usually I already know the answer before.

already know the answer before. >> Drop into the scripted thing I've said

>> Drop into the scripted thing I've said five times before.

five times before. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um so I think probably you are

>> Um so I think probably you are extroverted at least quite extroverted.

extroverted at least quite extroverted. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Agreeable? No.

>> Agreeable? No. >> I think you're deeply deeply

>> I think you're deeply deeply disagreeable and that's part of the

disagreeable and that's part of the reason why which which so agreeableness

reason why which which so agreeableness is like your how much you worry about

is like your how much you worry about other people's feelings.

other people's feelings. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> How selfless you are. How how much

>> How selfless you are. How how much you're willing to sort of put other

you're willing to sort of put other people for yourself. I think again we're

people for yourself. I think again we're off the charts in the other direction

off the charts in the other direction >> and neurotic. You're probably the least

>> and neurotic. You're probably the least neurotic person I've ever spoken to.

neurotic person I've ever spoken to. >> Like your sensitivity to negative

>> Like your sensitivity to negative feelings, how much you worry about

feelings, how much you worry about things, how depressed you get.

things, how depressed you get. >> I mean, you're as you say, you're just

>> I mean, you're as you say, you're just happy all the time. Just kind of happy.

happy all the time. Just kind of happy. >> I know everyone thinks I honestly I see

>> I know everyone thinks I honestly I see many many videos like she must be so

many many videos like she must be so depressed, you must be so unhappy. And

depressed, you must be so unhappy. And I'm like I'm I'm not. And I know people

I'm like I'm I'm not. And I know people think I fake it and you know I could be

think I fake it and you know I could be lying to you, but

lying to you, but >> I'm good liar. So,

>> I'm good liar. So, >> yeah. And I'm I'm not like I wish I

>> yeah. And I'm I'm not like I wish I guess more people could see my life

guess more people could see my life outside of it, but it's not always

outside of it, but it's not always shown. I don't always have time to show,

shown. I don't always have time to show, but I do want to I guess make an effort

but I do want to I guess make an effort more so to show what happens when I'm

more so to show what happens when I'm not filming or when what happens when

not filming or when what happens when I'm not Bonnie Blue or when I'm out in

I'm not Bonnie Blue or when I'm out in public that I'm not this massively hated

public that I'm not this massively hated person.

person. Given the

Given the little logic puzzles that we've stepped

little logic puzzles that we've stepped through today, on what basis can someone

through today, on what basis can someone condemn what Bonnie does given the world

condemn what Bonnie does given the world that we're in?

that we're in? >> Well, given the world that we're in,

>> Well, given the world that we're in, yeah, I don't think that you can condemn

yeah, I don't think that you can condemn Bonnie Blue if you're generally in favor

Bonnie Blue if you're generally in favor of sexual liberation and the free market

of sexual liberation and the free market and just letting all this stuff rip. I

and just letting all this stuff rip. I don't think you can. I think you just

don't think you can. I think you just have to accept that Bonnie has followed

have to accept that Bonnie has followed all this stuff through to the logical

all this stuff through to the logical end point and is and is winning that

end point and is and is winning that game.

game. >> Yeah. um if you I mean it doesn't bother

>> Yeah. um if you I mean it doesn't bother doesn't worry me because I've already

doesn't worry me because I've already thought for for years and I've always

thought for for years and I've always said that actually sexual liberation has

said that actually sexual liberation has some really serious costs

some really serious costs >> um as does letting the free market rip

>> um as does letting the free market rip and so on. So um

and so on. So um >> yeah, I've really enjoyed talking to you

>> yeah, I've really enjoyed talking to you and you're really likable person.

and you're really likable person. >> Same. I like how you're you know you

>> Same. I like how you're you know you don't agree with what I do but you're

don't agree with what I do but you're very open to listening because I've had

very open to listening because I've had I always say you don't have to agree.

I always say you don't have to agree. I'm It's not my job to convince you and

I'm It's not my job to convince you and I I'm not bothered. But I always really

I I'm not bothered. But I always really appreciate when someone can just listen

appreciate when someone can just listen to my side because I'm not just some

to my side because I'm not just some blonde porn star that's got no brain

blonde porn star that's got no brain cells. Like I'm not overly intelligent,

cells. Like I'm not overly intelligent, but I can explain. And the justify is

but I can explain. And the justify is probably not the correct word because I

probably not the correct word because I don't need to justify, but I can explain

don't need to justify, but I can explain why I do what I do and why I believe

why I do what I do and why I believe it's acceptable and why it's it's not

it's acceptable and why it's it's not damaging. So it's always

damaging. So it's always >> good to have people that can listen. I'm

>> good to have people that can listen. I'm not saying you're now going to be

not saying you're now going to be queuing up and I won't lend you a blue

queuing up and I won't lend you a blue ski mask just yet, but it's nice to have

ski mask just yet, but it's nice to have an open conversation.

an open conversation. >> I want to try and finish up by getting

>> I want to try and finish up by getting you guys to steelman the cases for the

you guys to steelman the cases for the other side. You know what that is? Steel

other side. You know what that is? Steel manning. So, you know straw man, it's uh

manning. So, you know straw man, it's uh I take your argument, I make the weakest

I take your argument, I make the weakest version out of it.

version out of it. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Steelmanning is taking the other side

>> Steelmanning is taking the other side and making the strongest version for

and making the strongest version for that case. So, if you could uh think of

that case. So, if you could uh think of the biggest tradeoff or or downside of

the biggest tradeoff or or downside of your worldview being successful, um if

your worldview being successful, um if your perspective and lifestyle was sort

your perspective and lifestyle was sort of more widely adopted, what would be

of more widely adopted, what would be the most negative externalities? What's

the most negative externalities? What's the best case that is anti Bonnie Blue?

the best case that is anti Bonnie Blue? And I guess Louise, you might be able to

And I guess Louise, you might be able to start and do what is the best case

start and do what is the best case that's pro Bonnie Blue and also what are

that's pro Bonnie Blue and also what are the negative externalities of if you

the negative externalities of if you were successful with what you wanted to

were successful with what you wanted to have happen.

have happen. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, if I had my way, um, I

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, if I had my way, um, I would like criminalize most of what you

would like criminalize most of what you do and you wouldn't have all this money,

do and you wouldn't have all this money, >> right? So, obviously personal

>> right? So, obviously personal >> in prison.

>> in prison. >> Well, but not for money. Um,

>> Well, but not for money. Um, >> so that's obviously like a personal cost

>> so that's obviously like a personal cost for you. I guess also that um maybe it

for you. I guess also that um maybe it is true that for some men access to porn

is true that for some men access to porn reduces their sexual aggression towards

reduces their sexual aggression towards other women or reduces the chances of

other women or reduces the chances of them going to um bisexual women in

them going to um bisexual women in prostitution. So maybe I mean I've never

prostitution. So maybe I mean I've never really seen that case made strongly, but

really seen that case made strongly, but I think I said earlier in the

I think I said earlier in the conversation that if that were true that

conversation that if that were true that it did actually reduce sexual violence,

it did actually reduce sexual violence, >> I would accept it as being the worst of

>> I would accept it as being the worst of the options.

the options. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Sorry, the better of bad options.

>> Sorry, the better of bad options. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> I think sometimes it's hard though

>> I think sometimes it's hard though because people think it's either got to

because people think it's either got to be A or B.

be A or B. >> It's not always got to be the case.

>> It's not always got to be the case. Sometimes for one person something works

Sometimes for one person something works and the other person it doesn't. or we

and the other person it doesn't. or we try and say, "Okay, porn is better to

try and say, "Okay, porn is better to cancel it." But sometimes it's not like

cancel it." But sometimes it's not like everyone tries to be fit in a box and

everyone tries to be fit in a box and sometimes things are one or the other.

sometimes things are one or the other. Or sometimes it might depend on what day

Or sometimes it might depend on what day it is and like you don't have to

it is and like you don't have to pinpoint yourself to one or the other.

pinpoint yourself to one or the other. >> What is the best case argument against

>> What is the best case argument against Bonnie Blue and the world that she wants

Bonnie Blue and the world that she wants that you can think of?

that you can think of? >> Um, I mean, for me, I'm already in it. I

>> Um, I mean, for me, I'm already in it. I get to do what I want and no one can

get to do what I want and no one can stop me basically. But the one of the

stop me basically. But the one of the main things I want is people that do pay

main things I want is people that do pay for porn, do pay for sex workers or the

for porn, do pay for sex workers or the RQin for people to be more open-minded

RQin for people to be more open-minded about and that they're not disgusting,

about and that they're not disgusting, they're not desperate, they're not here

they're not desperate, they're not here to hurt anybody, they are genuinely

to hurt anybody, they are genuinely lovely people. So that would be the

lovely people. So that would be the biggest thing I would love to happen.

biggest thing I would love to happen. >> No. What would be the case against?

>> No. What would be the case against? >> against.

>> against. >> Yeah. So Louise's position of anti- porn

>> Yeah. So Louise's position of anti- porn would criminalize, would monetize. If

would criminalize, would monetize. If you were to make the argument for that,

you were to make the argument for that, is there something where you think,

is there something where you think, okay, this is the best way that I could

okay, this is the best way that I could justify what Louise is saying? Can you

justify what Louise is saying? Can you see the other side?

see the other side? >> Yeah. Like I mean, I think a lot more

>> Yeah. Like I mean, I think a lot more restrictions should be added like it's

restrictions should be added like it's this was done by a professional either

this was done by a professional either speak to the person. It should be like a

speak to the person. It should be like a a clause beforehand. Um I think it's

a clause beforehand. Um I think it's hard cuz I think a lot of porn is very

hard cuz I think a lot of porn is very heavily regulated. um and the amount of

heavily regulated. um and the amount of consent forms and IDs you've got to

consent forms and IDs you've got to upload but as a whole just greater

upload but as a whole just greater education um I think you do see that

education um I think you do see that complete wild west porn is is bad even

complete wild west porn is is bad even if the indiv individuals are consenting

if the indiv individuals are consenting do you think that there's a cultural

do you think that there's a cultural harm done if we had completely let rip

harm done if we had completely let rip you know watch it at any age watch

you know watch it at any age watch anything you want do you think that

anything you want do you think that there would be a significant downside

there would be a significant downside from that

from that >> yeah I don't think it should be any age

>> yeah I don't think it should be any age but at the same time people are watching

but at the same time people are watching porn a lot younger than 18 and it's

porn a lot younger than 18 and it's they're also having sex so you know you

they're also having sex so you know you could stop watching porn I mean you

could stop watching porn I mean you could they make so many restrictions you

could they make so many restrictions you can only watch watch porn once you're 18

can only watch watch porn once you're 18 they're probably having sex those

they're probably having sex those younger than that though so who's

younger than that though so who's educating them on them younger years and

educating them on them younger years and I'm not saying porn's the best place to

I'm not saying porn's the best place to educate them but something needs to fill

educate them but something needs to fill that gap

that gap >> I have got an example that brings this

>> I have got an example that brings this into sort of my area of expertise which

into sort of my area of expertise which is bro science and

is bro science and I'm going to talk about fake natties you

I'm going to talk about fake natties you what that is. It's not to do with boobs.

what that is. It's not to do with boobs. It is uh guys who are in the fitness

It is uh guys who are in the fitness industry and have achieved a very

industry and have achieved a very admirable physique and claim that they

admirable physique and claim that they haven't done it without

haven't done it without performance-enhancing drugs, but they

performance-enhancing drugs, but they have used performance-enhancing drugs,

have used performance-enhancing drugs, fake naturals, fake natties. Um what the

fake naturals, fake natties. Um what the argument against fake natties and

argument against fake natties and specifically the sort of ethical

specifically the sort of ethical argument is these men are

argument is these men are creating an unrealistic expectation of

creating an unrealistic expectation of what can be achieved naturally which

what can be achieved naturally which inevitably means that any guy who tries

inevitably means that any guy who tries to do what they do feels inferior.

to do what they do feels inferior. They're going to fall short. The costs

They're going to fall short. The costs of trying to do what this person has

of trying to do what this person has done with peeds

done with peeds >> is unattainable. Therefore saying that

>> is unattainable. Therefore saying that you didn't use them is giving them a

you didn't use them is giving them a false sense of hope. Also, if you then

false sense of hope. Also, if you then come out and say that you did use drugs,

come out and say that you did use drugs, there's often an accusation that this

there's often an accusation that this person is now encouraging the use of

person is now encouraging the use of testosterone because they have an

testosterone because they have an admirable physique in this person that

admirable physique in this person that downstream effect of using uh hormones

downstream effect of using uh hormones on yourself as a guy.

on yourself as a guy. >> I wonder whether you are kind of not the

>> I wonder whether you are kind of not the fake natty because you're completely

fake natty because you're completely open about it, but you are the

open about it, but you are the testosterone hyperresponder of the sex

testosterone hyperresponder of the sex world, which is

world, which is your results may vary and Bonnie's are

your results may vary and Bonnie's are the most outlier that you're going to

the most outlier that you're going to have. Most guys, most women would not be

have. Most guys, most women would not be able to sort of run the cycle that you

able to sort of run the cycle that you have, as in run the testosterone

have, as in run the testosterone performance-enhancing drug cycle, and

performance-enhancing drug cycle, and survive in the same way that you have.

survive in the same way that you have. Most girls

Most girls >> would not be able to live the life that

>> would not be able to live the life that you do. And I think when we're talking

you do. And I think when we're talking about like without exaggeration a one in

about like without exaggeration a one in 3.5 billion outlier,

3.5 billion outlier, lots of people would ask the question,

lots of people would ask the question, does it make women want to emulate her

does it make women want to emulate her or warn them off of her behavior, not do

or warn them off of her behavior, not do it? But the issue is you are so

it? But the issue is you are so non-representative,

non-representative, there is no warning those people off

there is no warning those people off because there's no negative

because there's no negative externalities that happen within this

externalities that happen within this system that is you. Does that make

system that is you. Does that make sense?

sense? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I tried to bring fake natties into this.

>> I tried to bring fake natties into this. But

But >> no, I I get it though. Like the good

>> no, I I get it though. Like the good thing is I'm very transparent. I'm very

thing is I'm very transparent. I'm very open. And

open. And >> I don't think you're transparent about

>> I don't think you're transparent about how weird you are.

how weird you are. >> Yes, I would agree. We

>> Yes, I would agree. We >> did say earlier. Yeah. Cuz you did say

>> did say earlier. Yeah. Cuz you did say earlier I'm I'm really normal. I swear

earlier I'm I'm really normal. I swear I'm really

I'm really >> honestly anyone like so a lot of people

>> honestly anyone like so a lot of people that either work with me or my friends

that either work with me or my friends when people that know they either work

when people that know they either work with me or they know me. One of the

with me or they know me. One of the first questions they get asked is, "Oh

first questions they get asked is, "Oh my god, what is she like?" And they're

my god, what is she like?" And they're like, "She is surprisingly."

like, "She is surprisingly." >> But you're surprisingly normal. This is

>> But you're surprisingly normal. This is exactly the same as me talking about Jon

exactly the same as me talking about Jon Jones or actually not Jon Jones, that's

Jones or actually not Jon Jones, that's a bad example. Tom Asenol who's UFC

a bad example. Tom Asenol who's UFC champion. I go, "Oh, he's a normal guy.

champion. I go, "Oh, he's a normal guy. You know, he sits down, he eats dinner,

You know, he sits down, he eats dinner, he plays with his kids, he does the

he plays with his kids, he does the thing." It's like, yeah, but he also

thing." It's like, yeah, but he also beats people up that are over 200 lb for

beats people up that are over 200 lb for a living. Like, this guy has a very

a living. Like, this guy has a very specific skill set within a very narrow

specific skill set within a very narrow domain. And yeah, he's normal outside of

domain. And yeah, he's normal outside of that, but is also within that a world

that, but is also within that a world champion. So I I think I would encourage

champion. So I I think I would encourage you to to check check your thinking for

you to to check check your thinking for one of a better term on I am not that

one of a better term on I am not that weird because nobody else you've already

weird because nobody else you've already said yourself nobody else has been able

said yourself nobody else has been able to do what you can do. The people that

to do what you can do. The people that are trying to go in your power this is

are trying to go in your power this is the same as you having unbelievable

the same as you having unbelievable natural strength and being able to

natural strength and being able to squat. There's a guy who recently broke

squat. There's a guy who recently broke the deadlift record. um no one else in

the deadlift record. um no one else in the planet has ever been able to do that

the planet has ever been able to do that and somebody else trying to do that will

and somebody else trying to do that will snap themselves in half trying to chase

snap themselves in half trying to chase it. He is a 1 in 3.5 billion uh human.

it. He is a 1 in 3.5 billion uh human. Yeah.

Yeah. >> And I do think

>> And I do think >> that creates a an odd sense of the cost

>> that creates a an odd sense of the cost that other people would pay if they were

that other people would pay if they were to try and do the same thing.

to try and do the same thing. >> For sure

>> For sure >> because you do not deal with the

>> because you do not deal with the situation in the same way. Like largely

situation in the same way. Like largely you're inhuman in the way that you are

you're inhuman in the way that you are dealing with

dealing with >> what is going on here. Is that is that

>> what is going on here. Is that is that >> I think I guess

>> I think I guess >> fair

>> fair >> it'd be easier if I did struggle a bit

>> it'd be easier if I did struggle a bit and I could open up and say look it

and I could open up and say look it comes at this cost. It comes at me

comes at this cost. It comes at me crying myself to sleep at night. It

crying myself to sleep at night. It comes at my family are you know upset

comes at my family are you know upset with me and I'm dealing with physical

with me and I'm dealing with physical issues but that isn't the case. Like for

issues but that isn't the case. Like for me it really has been an easy ride and

me it really has been an easy ride and but I do always like to try and make it

but I do always like to try and make it as clear as possible. This is not normal

as clear as possible. This is not normal for most people. I I am a normal girl,

for most people. I I am a normal girl, but in terms of the way I deal with it

but in terms of the way I deal with it and the way I've able to manage it all,

and the way I've able to manage it all, yeah, to a certain degree isn't normal.

yeah, to a certain degree isn't normal. And I don't have any tips,

And I don't have any tips, >> as much as I wish I could say, look, if

>> as much as I wish I could say, look, if you do want to do this, here's some tips

you do want to do this, here's some tips on how to manage it or how to be

on how to manage it or how to be successful in it because

successful in it because >> I don't know. I just

>> I don't know. I just >> You were just constructed for this sort

>> You were just constructed for this sort of

of LeBron James of porn.

LeBron James of porn. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Louis and Bonnie, thank you very much.

>> Louis and Bonnie, thank you very much. It's been really uh it's been really

It's been really uh it's been really interesting to see. I

interesting to see. I do. Do I wish I don't I don't wish that

do. Do I wish I don't I don't wish that I could have come away from it and said

I could have come away from it and said and you know I saw the second set of

and you know I saw the second set of eyelids open and close or you know there

eyelids open and close or you know there was there was something in there that

was there was something in there that showed she was being contrived or seemed

showed she was being contrived or seemed to be playing some sort of a game and

to be playing some sort of a game and that is where the fascination I think

that is where the fascination I think and the questions will continue because

and the questions will continue because it is easier for people to assume that

it is easier for people to assume that there is something being hidden then

there is something being hidden then holy [ __ ] I just do not have a model for

holy [ __ ] I just do not have a model for how this person's mind works in this way

how this person's mind works in this way and

and >> if it was probably any other industry

>> if it was probably any other industry that wasn't so heavily moralized.

that wasn't so heavily moralized. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I think people would be fascinated but

>> I think people would be fascinated but for different reasons. They would be

for different reasons. They would be fascinated in the same way that a chess

fascinated in the same way that a chess grandmaster or an elite strength athlete

grandmaster or an elite strength athlete or a psychopath killer or you know

or a psychopath killer or you know anyone that's like

anyone that's like >> I have no understanding of how this

>> I have no understanding of how this person's mind works. Um, but because it

person's mind works. Um, but because it is wrapped up in some bravado, a lot of

is wrapped up in some bravado, a lot of exposure, and a very heavily moralized

exposure, and a very heavily moralized private thing that's now been

private thing that's now been commercialized and made public. Yeah,

commercialized and made public. Yeah, you are the reductio adabsum of the

you are the reductio adabsum of the sexual revolution. I guess

sexual revolution. I guess >> you're the spirit of the age. See, my

>> you're the spirit of the age. See, my brain honestly not much going off in the

brain honestly not much going off in the best of times. Like it's a very simple

best of times. Like it's a very simple brain. Um, but yeah, and I sort of get

brain. Um, but yeah, and I sort of get what you mean. You can't walk away

what you mean. You can't walk away going, you know what, I completely saw

going, you know what, I completely saw Bonnie's side or actually I saw a

Bonnie's side or actually I saw a different side of her. Yeah, you would

different side of her. Yeah, you would have seen a different side of me

have seen a different side of me slightly, but it's

slightly, but it's as a whole, I'm just a nice person. I'm

as a whole, I'm just a nice person. I'm always open for a conversation and I'm

always open for a conversation and I'm not going to come in and go, you know

not going to come in and go, you know what, I want to [ __ ] all your camera

what, I want to [ __ ] all your camera crew and I'm going to turn this into a

crew and I'm going to turn this into a gang.

gang. >> Please don't. Please don't. Please

>> Please don't. Please don't. Please don't.

don't. >> And what's the big table for? But I will

>> And what's the big table for? But I will make jokes and remarks, but I don't just

make jokes and remarks, but I don't just walk around having sex with people. I

walk around having sex with people. I don't just, you know, instantly bend

don't just, you know, instantly bend over or assume I'm having sex each day.

over or assume I'm having sex each day. It's as a whole. It's to a certain

It's as a whole. It's to a certain degree two people. Well, thank you for

degree two people. Well, thank you for coming on. I appreciate you both for

coming on. I appreciate you both for having me. Thank you.

having me. Thank you. >> Thank you very much for watching. In the

>> Thank you very much for watching. In the corner, there's a full length episode

corner, there's a full length episode just between me and Louise available

just between me and Louise available right here if you still got any gas in

right here if you still got any gas in the tank.

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YouTube Transcript:The Modern Sex Work Debate - Bonnie Blue & Louise Perry (4K)

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The Modern Sex Work Debate - Bonnie Blue & Louise Perry (4K)