also was working

at uh companies like alias and then with

microsoft um but it was really uh in

2007 when he published uh this book

which is called uh sketching user

experiences which doesn't quite want to

come in with the blue screen but it's if

um if you have a chance to find a copy

of it it's a very invaluable book for

all fields of design and that's why i

thought that bill's talk would be so

important today because we're working

with computer sciences in the faculty of

science and technology but also with

other scientists as well as of course

the center for architecture and bill's

work cuts across all of these areas so

without further ado i'm gonna just pass

it right over to bill thank you very

much for joining us this morning

great and um yeah i'm if i was late i

had this down at 8 30 so okay

okay

well we're very glad you're here um

um

um all right so uh

so uh let's what

what i what's

i what's

that is my screen sharing working at all

i think christian we may have to make uh

there's a second douglas macleod in and

uh we may have to make uh uh

kristen can you okay

okay

bill you should be able to share it now

here's that

little green button the share screen

button down at the back i know this i've

got what are you seeing on your screen

uh yeah okay got it here we go

there we are now it's starting it's

starting yes now we see your your slides wonderful

wonderful okay

okay

so we can uh we can we can rock and roll so

so um

um

first of all

it's funny to me this way that um

some part of electronics always gets in

the way or or if there's a mediator i

guess is a better way to say it so

so um

um

first of all i if

if

there's a in the chat window if

questions pop up since um it's harder

for me to monitor if say doug if you

monitor that if the things come up i'm i

welcome interruptions

okay and to make this interactive and if

you want more detail along the way just

ask and i'll make sure that we leave

time um

to uh um

um

to to um [Music]

[Music]

for questions so

and i'll do my best there

so we're talking about sketching um

it's interesting one of the reasons i

liked hanging around with with doug and

actually the person who designed the

book is an architect and

and

we'll touch on some of his work

there because i think that from my field

of design which started off as the

design of electronic musical instruments

and morphed into

uh interfaces in general uh on the

musical side the

the part that's kind of interesting is

that for example the multi-touch screen

that's on your iphone and all these

other things grew um

um uh

uh

it didn't

it its growth path its evolution went

right through

the studio where doug used to be on a

drum that i made for a percussionist in

a group called nexus but also you played

on steve reich

he's a hand drummer and um

and it started off as a drum so you

could hit it with two hands and have it

respond the way a hand drum because the

skills that this percussionist had was

drumming not working the computer and so

i had to

make the technology fit into his skills

that he'd worked for years and become

world-class at

and so there's these strange bedfellows

and cross disciplines that really help inform

inform [Music]

[Music]

things and if you look around you're

going to find

find

more than enough opportunities for

creativity and that's what this is about exploring

exploring

the creativity and the act of

i want to start though to

to

speak about something i really uh

i want to just set my cards on the table

and i

absolutely am against sort of the great

man theory of uh invention design and

the designer dustin black and the person

who's just this hero

we live in a culture which is so driven

by hero worship that it blinds us to

what actually is going on and

and makes people who are fledging

architects or designers aspire to something

something

that even the most world famous

designers cannot achieve um

um

and and and i'm going to call it the

edison myth because he's the worst

offender in terms of

taking credit personal credit for

everything that was done and the main

thing i would say is

with something like 2000 patents he is supposedly

as a sole inventor

even on his most fundamental patent

namely the filament and the white

incandescent light bulb that made that feasible

feasible

um he wasn't the first one to do a

filament in a light bulb he and he

wasn't even in the building or in this

area when the people who actually did

the work and made the discovery made it

and none of them are listed he is so

inventor on everything he didn't do that

he was a remarkable person

but he wasn't the sole inventor and he

was a great publicist and like steve

jobs he in fact he was the model for

steve jobs he was the first person to

have a publicist to promote his brand of

an individual of the great man and and

and i mean that man with the most sexist

way possible at in that time

and so i want to put and

frame everything i'm saying here in

terms of alchemy the notion of what too

many people aspire to or have been led

to believe is that there is this flash

of genius there's these great creative

people and they're born with it it's

sort of like what spoiled star wars it

was in the first episode the fourth one

made all of a sudden you realize that

the force was

genetic as opposed to something you

built up inside my son stopped watching

star wars when he saw that because it

ruined the entire story

yes the force is with you and no you

don't get it by birth you get it by

by by practice

and it's the alchemist solution you

cannot make gold

you can't just manufacture it it's

there already

and the process and this is by metaphor

the process of design

is the most important part of it is

prospecting prospecting for problems but

also prospecting for solutions and

observing what's going around and if you

can't prospect you're

you're going to be at the tail end and

and there's all kinds of techniques and

tools that you can use for that

but most of us if we're on

out canoeing in the north north of

canada you're walking across the

canadian shield getting eaten by

mosquitoes carrying a canoe you don't

even realize that you're walking over a

diamond mind or a gold mine

because you don't know how to prospect

and then the first thing you do then is

say hey if i if i care about mining that

type of thing then maybe i should invent

the or or find a geiger counter if i'm

looking for uranium just for ease but

that's not enough you first of all have

to prospect and find it the next thing

you have to do is you have to mine it

you have to figure out how to get it out

of the earth

and and get the raw materials and after

that you have to refine those materials

in in terms of uh

taking the gold and it's actually

turning extracting all the other

materials trying not to completely

destroy the earth and then process and

and and actually start to make gold and

but even then your job isn't finished

and and this is the finer parts the most

visible part of design but the part

which is just the dessert the the icing

on the cake is the goldsmithing when you

make you take the gold and by by working

it further you make it worth more than

its weight in gold and

and

and it's really important to understand

if you can't do all of these things or

understand where all these things fit in

the process and how they interrelate

with all the other people

in the in the process then there's a

challenge it's a problem so the process

design is a process

but the minute you get rid of this great

man theory and you start to say

that it's the the the mining theory

then you can start to say we can teach

this you can learn this

and like

any conservatory of music let's say in

salzburg you can become because the

infrastructure is there all the learning

tools are there to become a great

musician if you put the work in that

doesn't mean you'll become mozart

but mozart will only emerge from

from uh

uh

from that infrastructure that was

designed for people like you and me

normal people

and and it's really critical because i i

it's really

gets you down and and of course then you

have to figure out how to deliver

that that wonderful piece to the right

market in the right way all of those things

things

for the product to exist in any

meaningful way as opposed to a piece of

art and art

design is not art

it's a practice

and so where does it fit in

well everywhere that

that that

that from

from

the very beginning right through the

very end design is involved and it's

even designed in the design of the

mining tools

it's recursive and

and and

and

and that means because it fits in in

every stage of the process and i don't

care whether you're talking about

architecture or the design of a new mouse

mouse

um or a new process that

that

that you have to know

everybody else's role in

what it takes um to bring that thing to

market it's a job and you have to know

the stuff and we have to have the craft

and learn it in a way so if we're about

to get divorced the bank's going to

foreclose on our mortgage

we're sick as hell we hate our job we

hate our clients

we hate ourselves kind of and we can

still do the job

because we can fall back on technique

and process

and we don't have to rely on the muse if

you want to rely on the muse then you

might do some great work

but you should probably go become an

artist and and get a canada council

grant as opposed to become a

professional designer and

and

and then they come down to this whole

notion of sketching so where does that

fit in and

and

and it's a really essential tool of

design i think it's fundamental to the

design process

but even there i think there's some

confusions for example people confuse

sketching with drawing

um so it's essential but it's not

sufficient and we have to try and figure

out where it fits into the larger process

process

and and the most

effective way for me

to try and talk about it or even when

i'm talking to myself

is to keep reminding myself it's not the

artifact that it produces

it's what it's the

it's the activity that

that

it engenders

the sketch is

has an intent and the intent is to provoke

provoke

and and and push you further

the sketch itself is a nice artifact to

capture snapshot of one of the steps

but it's the means it's not the end

and so yeah it's a nice drawing great

good on you what ideas express why

should i care unless i'm looking at it as

as

art and so

it comes down to divorce the process

from the from the material the material

can really

make a sketch more effective

but not in the ways that most or many of

us think about

and it's social uh sketches are social

have social relationships with other

sketches those who have preceded those

would follow it but it's social in terms of

of

the conversations that it provokes and

in many ways the whole process of

sketching is to provoke conversations

and to make us think and give us

landmarks reference points so we don't

get lost

they're like when you're

hiking in wilderness if you put down

waypoints with your gps or whatever so

you don't you don't quite get lost or

you can just sort of mark up the spots

but it's not the journey that's not the root

root and

and

yes it could be a drawing

and so for example

this is a detailed from the notebook of time

time

to cola and this is from the mid of

middle of the 15th century and this is

to the best of my knowledge the first

recorded use of sketching

um as opposed to drawing so

so

let's be clear there used to be

sketchbooks in architecture

and there were pattern books and this

goes right you know alexander when he

talks about pattern languages and so on

and in architecture

this has a really long history because

before photography and everything else

people went out and they drew all these

um especially

the classic things there were all these

catalogs of like the sears catalog of

the canadian tire catalog or lee valley

tools catalog with all of the patterns

all of those little details and you

would go through and you'd pick this

thing back when you put it together like

lego in terms of that those are some of

the tools that's not what i'm talking

about those are things to capture

snapshots to set out a mosaic of

materials that you can use just like a

color palette it was a a feature palette

that that and the and you can pick

different styles like different fonts

that would let you make choices and that

that was clearly part of a design

process but those

drawings with a very different intent

they were to capture record so you could

as a memory aid

to call this was the first one where

he's working through ideas and and this

is just about um ways to protect boats

uh ships and in war and different types

of battles and the most important thing

about the sketch and i know it's vague

and fuzzy but heck it's from the middle

of the middle of the 15th century um

he had multiple solutions there

he's got a whole bunch of different ways

to show that

to to stretch out ideas and just capture

them and and notice

there's text in there to annotate

they're messy they're just dirty they're

just but they're

but he's working in multiples he's

really doing fast and it's the number of

ideas that captures the essence of sketching

sketching

not how they're articulated other than

the fact that they look like they're

knocked off really quickly which is an

important aspect actually of of what the

sketchy language was and yes it's on

paper and this is when we think about

sketching this is the um kind of

renderings that you would expect to see

everybody would call that a sketch they

may not say when or when it was done or

whatever but they probably wouldn't

emphasize the point that it was

multiples of the same idea different

variations and that's the most critical

thing it's expiration

um to to find out where where things lie

but it doesn't have to be a drawing this

is a recreation that i made of an early

sketch of the palm pilot which was uh

which kind of uh

was the predecessor to your iphone um or

or whatever um and and the palm pilot

just was that everybody had one it was a

it was the first pen based uh handheld

handheld

that uh

called a pda or or it was like a little

handheld computer that had your address

book and all this stuff in it it was had

a pen you could use your fingers it did

all kinds of very cool things but the

most important thing was it had to be

handheld and so literally the first

prototype was go to the shop get a block

of wood cut it so it'll fit in your

pocket and will it fit in your hand and

what's it like to draw it

and it's an experiential prototype

because the whole thing was it wasn't

what it looked like oh that was

important there's a secondary issue can

it fit in your pocket can it be with you

in the context where it's used and will

it fit in your hand and what does it

feel like can you actually write on it

with a pen what does it feel like

and if you can't feel it and experience

it then you're probably going to get the

design wrong depending um and you have

to do everything you can to figure out

how you can actually experience it

before you build it

my rule is this the only way to engineer

the future tomorrow is to have lifted it yesterday

yesterday

and jimi hendrix had it right when he

said as the philosopher of design is you

ask the fundamental question are you

experienced if you don't have the experience

experience

what have you got to draw when you're

trying to design experiences for others

and so the this whole notion of what a

design team in design culture is about

is about not just the prospecting for

ideas but prospecting

for the um

um

fields in which you can go and and

and find raw materials to prospect for

and and it's a recursive again itself

it's embedded

and you get uh things like this um

and and

and here's another form

of acting out which is what the previous

one was for so you act through it trying

to do it this is a really this is a

world famous psycho

sociologist he taught me everything i

know actually richard harper this guy

here in this image

um when i wrote the book and i gave him

the manuscript he made me throw

something like 40 of the book away and

he said you're saying things too many

times you've said them already and the

book is he's the one who's so

responsible he's not a designer but he's

the most incredible book editor and

author i've ever met and i had to trust

him because he knew more than me about

my own field from the perspective of storytelling

storytelling

but here's the deal

i was trying to talk about context

and as architects you know that there's

you know um

there's this whole thing right uh we

shape our spaces and spaces shape us so

um the fundamental question is what

should the space be like it says what do

i want to be like

once i built that space how is it going

to shape me and what's appropriate

behavior what are the social mores

what's the moral order of any particular

place that you're designing

and so i wanted to emphasize that it's

not about the room it's not about the

meeting it's not about anything when he

walked i just said hey richard i want

you to do something and he looked at me

and said i'm working on the book i said

i want will you come to work tomorrow in

your pajamas because i know you've got a

meeting you've got to present to it and

and

and damn it he did

and and this was this is a stage he came

because i asked him and because i asked

him there's that that respect and

friendship and he's a sociologist right

he's the one who taught me anything i

know about sociology practically

and but he did come to the meeting and i

happened to i took my camera because i

knew he told me he'd do it he did and i

trusted him so i did bring the camera

but the point is you look at this and

this is just wrong

the moral order is wrong you just don't

do this

and yet if he was you know

it would be perfectly fine to be talking

to in a different context in a different

room and there's a meaning in place and

this functions and and

and

and in some sense

going to meetings if you're going to

have something you're trying to make

that point you can act it out that is a

sketch and if you want to think of it

it's sketch comedy in a way except

because it is kind of funny and it's

kind of neat because humor is a huge way

to break the ice when you're trying to

free up if you want to be creative the

point is how can you be creative if

you've got a pickle up your butt and

you're so uptight you're too afraid to

move and and play with things playing

with ideas is really really important

and in fact

alex meno who who teaches at ocado in toronto

toronto

he said to me once and said the last

thing you should do is draw a line the

minute you draw a line you're already

committing yourself to something

and it's all about play and he's written

books about that and

the point is this

you gotta be flexible and what it is

what a design is

and so you just sort of say well

when how what a rendering should should

say and so here's just a sort of like a

timeline of the designs this is from

industrial design but from uh just early

renderings of uh

of a stroller and coming through and

you're getting arrows now coming in and

functional these are look no notice all

a little on the left side there's all

these secondary things about

second ideas that come through the

refining the rendering is refining and

uh and now you're starting to get a

mechanical thing to show up and here's

another the the exploded view and then i

can come into color studies and that

before manufacturing and the point about

this is notice the difference in

rendering style how tight how loose how

tentative versus how how uh how

let's say uh authoritarian they are how

i'm saying this dogmatic these are

starting to say okay this is it and and

now we're gonna manufacture this if you

don't tell me now because this is where

we've gotten to but here's we started

this just says hey you know what this is

what i've whipped out um

you what do you what do you think

and and so if we go along the timeline

from left to right

these are sketches

these are prototypes

when you get over here to

you get into blueprint types of things

and now you're starting getting product renderings

renderings and

and

one of the things

there's two things that happen as

as the

the

rendering gets higher and higher fidelity

fidelity

the number of objects you make

and the number of examples there are

goes down

so quantity

trumps quality

in terms of rendering

but there's the two things that are i

think are really important

what underlies this is when

i i

to when i was preparing the book i

taught some courses fourth year and for

first-year master's courses that on

design that at ocad do and

and the first thing i say when i come

into a class is say i take marks off for

good work

and the students are all trying to

say what what are you talking about no

no i said really if you bring me really

good work i'm gonna fail you

and i don't care how good it is

the better is the more i'm gonna fail

you this is a class on sketching and if

you had time to do that one beautiful rendering

rendering

you had time to do 10

variations meaning for this thing

various versions

because you have already committed to

your first idea and just run with it

and you don't know what you didn't do

because you don't know what you don't

know because you haven't explored the space

space

and and it's too expensive to go

backwards once you've you've committed

and down that path and you hit the brick

wall whereas crap there's something else

i could have done

so quantity goes down as you go forward

and the quality of the renderings come up

up

but the critical thing in the way we

have to think about this is that

that

you need multiples

and we'll get more of that that's a key

part of sketching but

the rendering style

how you render

should never ever

ever

convey a

degree of confidence or commitment

beyond where you are in the design process

process

and the reason i hate even in my own

industry and even in my own company when

they do these envisionment videos and

things like that trying to portray the

future and future ideas

and they do it with the cinematics of

vocabulary of a tv commercial

i think that's

that's

verging on dishonest

because it's saying that makes up if you

use the language of product marketing

i'm sorry

that's misleading because

most people who see it are going to

think you've already done this

and so many people you look on online

that they'll put hey i invented this and

make a 3d beautiful rendering no you didn't

didn't

that's the that's a trivial part of design

design

and this is the process that's how you

this is how you get there and this is where

where

and and we'll talk a bit more about this

but again the quality and the quality so

let's talk about what i'm talking about

what what makes a sketch a sketch

first they have to be quick and timely

and even if you did spend a bunch of

time on it it has to look like that you didn't

didn't

it has to be you have to be able to

deliver right away and it has to look

like it was right away and you know why

because i might want to say hey

get rid of it

and if you spent all night working on

that one piece to make me your client

your boss your colleague or whatever uh

uh

you're not going to be happy

because i'm criticizing you

so you've got to do it fast and they

have to be inexpensive

inexpensive

and disposable or at least to whoever

you're sharing them with they have to

appear that way

so that when i say hey no not this one

but this one's pretty good at that one

because you've got multiples i'm not

attacking you because if you give me

five different sketches each one

meaningfully distinct from each other

and you have not made a decision on your own

own then

then

i can come and say hey this one's uh you

know i like this one i want to take part

of that part of that and put them

together that way

or or

whatever but if i reject them i'm not

rejecting you because there's not a

one-to-one relationship between the work

and the person

you have made up your mind you're giving

me the sketches there not for you to

teach me

about tell me what tell me what to do

but rather it's there to let me contribute

contribute

but also to express an honest opinion

and do so without destroying our relationship

relationship and

and

and by the way don't confuse

this with the other technique that

designers use in marketing and

architects use in buildings we're going

to come in hey to the client i'm going

to give you three designs okay here's

the first one and it's going to be

really really expensive right and you've

got the second one and it's uh it's

minor and it only costs this much then

you do the and then you do the one and

one in the middle by the way this is how

artillery works as well um

and of course what you're doing is to

frame the one

you're trying to get approval on and

you're advocating for the other two are

just um sidesman to try and make you

look good and to help channel the

clients behavior that is not sketching

artillery is the same thing right you're

in the trenches bam the enemy shoots a

shell explodes way behind you ha ha ha

you can't you can't shoot they do

another one it lands in front of you ha

ha ha you you you can't shoot no no they

were just finding the ranch and they're

the wind the third one that's when you

duck you don't have to dock in the first

and the third of the second

but that but but those types of

multiples are not the same thing as

sketching sketching is honest to god

you are indifferent as to which one

because you can see the good and the bad

of each sketch

there has to be lots of them to do this

um in fact

you know what

one one of my colleagues who's uh had a designer

designer

at a major

company whose products you use basically

if a designer comes in with less than five

five

different concepts when they're in early

stages you're fired i mean i mean you

know you're not gonna he's not a jerk

but but but essentially that's on it but

if you keep doing it

um you're gonna not gonna get promoted

you're not gonna have a job

you have to have multiple ideas without

prejudice as to which one and as i said

before the vocabulary that you express

it have to express the intent and

what the level of thinking is the level

of commitment

and there must be just enough uh

resolution to communicate the intent no

more and this was hit for me by a car

designer at one of the major at big

three who's uh and

and he sort of said you know you do the

sketches all this sort of thing that's

just a rough concept and you just for

details you just painted the little part

of it like a tail light red

or or some feature just a little bit of

color here you know what's going to

happen is the executives that's coming

in is going to say hey why is that red

they say no it doesn't matter it's just

a sketch i'm just that it's it's irrelevant

irrelevant

and and they're going no no i really

want to know why it's red and i keep

going you're going to say that and and

you're getting frustrated and say what

an idiot i'm just trying to show them a

concept no you're the idiot i'm the

idiot if i do it because

if it doesn't need to be there it

shouldn't be there you put it there you

had no real reason other than make it

pretty and it just was a diversion

and this is a little bit like drams just

enough detail is necessary and no more and

and

and it's critical that we do this so

that we can get to the essence no distractions

distractions and

and

and again what i've said already the

resolution of the rendering must reflect

the delegate stage of thinking

and here's the one that maybe confuses

people when i say sketches must be ambiguous

ambiguous

you are not telling me

in a sketch

you're provoking thought

and therefore

if it doesn't afford multiple

multiple

interpretations it's not going to serve

its purpose and

and

my favorite way to describe this is

an effect of sketches like swiss cheese

it must be full of holes

um and the reason is because

that leaves enough room for the

imagination i should get that back right so

let's now come back to sort of saying

what's the difference between a sketch

and a prototype because i've already

said we can make physical sketches as

well as um uh paper once on paper and

drawings there's all kinds of way to sketch

sketch plasticine

plasticine

people make maquettes in for animation

and i said before it's about the purpose

and so on the left-hand side these are

the properties of a sketch

and and on the right-hand side uh

there's ones about prototypes and be

very very clear in my industry for at

least within the design of

any type of electronic instrument or or

electronic device and even mechanical devices

devices

um i often make prototypes out of paper

because it's still faster but they're

operational and so on so forth at a

certain point they become um

um

and and

i i i there's some examples in the book

of a juicer which i went through and did

a full case study but there's not time

here to but the sketch

can't um a catalyst for ideas not to teach

teach

it's to ask questions it's a suggest not

to describe it's to explore not to refine

refine

it's to question not answer it's to propose

propose

not test it's to provoke it's not to

resolve it's tentative it's not specific

it's non-committable non-committal

it but that left column

of course

is the first step or an early step

on the way

to teaching describing refining

answering testing resolving being

specific and being a depiction

depiction

but there is a

path from those two extremes

and the whole poor point of the early

phases of design

is to make sure

that when

when you start off with a blank piece of

paper and you get here to a very

accurate description that you're

that you not only

get the design right

but you get the right design

and if you have not just explored every

possibility at every step on every

decision along the way

you are probably going to have

the best product that's a failure

beautifully engineered

gorgeous to look at

and it's a failure

and by the time you're halfway down

the process

you find that out it's too late you

can't go backwards and refactor and

start a game

you're done

the most important part is that the

early phase of the project

that's when you have the lowest burn

rate for your clients

that's when you have the time to

experiment and take these chances

and so what you can by sketching

you can get way further down the process

without going down that process because

you're working at such a low level of

fidelity that that all you can see are

the essential concepts

and some of those might be fine details

god is in the details but but it's

really important to know the difference

and if there's a one word

that defines design in my perspective

it's choice

and so it comes back to the notion of multiples

multiples

if you only have one thing you have no choice

choice

it's it's it's it's a done deal

and its choice for the client is choice

for you it's choice for your colleagues

a choice for the engineers it's choice

for the marketers it's choice for the

exact financial people

and the question is you have to set up

and control the environments around to

make intelligent choices

and so it's in how do you inform and be

and and so if you're going to choose the

most important thing about the design

process is that make sure that you're

not giving five choices of the same thing

thing

and you we the sketching again is a way

to tease out what are the meaningful

distinctions that make things

meaningfully different so there is a

meaningful choice

and one that we can evaluate its viability

viability

and we have to understand that every choice

choice

and every design

has a good side and a bad side

nothing's neutral

technology is not good it's not bad but

nor is it neutral and then the question is

is

what's your criteria for making

the choices and so we're going to get to that

that

but the most important thing here is to

emphasize over and over and over

is it's about multiples but not just

arbitrary multiples and quantity but

also in quality in terms of what the

qualities are what are the design values

they must be meaningfully distinct

and you have to figure out within your

colleagues what are the dimensions of

differentiation that qualify to make

them distinct but there absolutely is no

room for only one solution to just do

this and say okay let's build it

and because you might get lucky you

might be a one-hit wonder

but you cannot repeat it you will not be

able to do that when you're hungover

depressed and and the banks foreclosing

richard sewell he's the um head up

design at sharon college who i worked

with a lot he's founded one of the top

prince dude making studios in canada

called open studio and

and he just sort of said i can't do crit

on a single piece of work

because if i criticize the work and

there's only one piece i'm criticizing

you i've already said this

multiples are important there for many

reasons a they like to explore multiple

ideas but this part emphasizes it also

changes the

social dynamic within the design team

from one of hostility and causing

resentments to one of saying wow you're

super creative you did all these

different things you did them really

quickly that's fantastic what a great

designer because i've learned a lot and

by the way the thing we're going to do

is not any of the ones you did but with

the where we landed it was directly

because of you did those ones you maybe

shut all the other doors that led us to

another door

it doesn't matter

so there's two places to exercise

creativity in design and by the way i

have this operational definition of

creativity and for me creativity is the

act of making the obvious obvious before

it's obvious

if you get it right it's going to be

simple people say hey

that was obvious yeah but it wasn't beforehand

beforehand

and how do you make it obvious because

then when you've got something that in

retrospect is obvious but it wasn't but

was hidden in plain view and you're the

one who had the optics to see

the potential there

that's going to be a really

a a really successful product if if

that's in fact what happened and there

was a need for the thing in the first

place but the two places are

the creativity

that you bring to enumerating the set of

meaningfully distinct things

so

it's not just multiples it's which

multiples one of the candidates that you

nominated for consideration you

nominated to be exploring

and how did you get them what's your process

process

um how diverse are they

how can you convince me that they're not

just variations on the same theme at the

micro level when you should be going

much broader

what are you drawing on

and this is where jimi hendrix comes in again

again what

what

if you're not experienced

the pool from which you can draw

the ocean in which you can fish is much

much smaller

and i don't mean that just as an

individual this is the social part of

design a game

it's amongst your design fellow

designers and and your collective

experience and that's why you never hire

somebody who's like you you've already

got the best one in the world um

um you

you

the old people to work with are people

who are different than you have

different skills

and and and then together you work

together it's what i call a renaissance

team right it was never a renaissance

man or woman if there was leonardo and michelangelo

michelangelo

didn't need the medici why didn't they

do their own banking if they knew

everything we do everything no everybody

needs complimentary skills to be

successful and the enumeration of

meaning set to drawn is directly

correlated to the experience of the

collection of the people who are trying

to uh

work on the concept

and the second thing is once you've made

those choices

how do you i'm sorry once you've you've

been you've done the enumeration the

expansion side how do you then

narrow it down and filter

and i want to be very very very clear

and this is the fundamental part of the

process that cannot be violated or you

completely destroy

the culture of the design team

and people will leave

and that is this

you'll be sent him to the corner

if you reject any idea

all you can do

and it's a given in the culture and this

is what every designer has to

to enforce its discipline themselves

or else because

anyone can destroy the culture just one person

person

and so it's a responsibility

you can enumerate

enumerate

the negative and positive aspects of any

idea hey this is great

it's got these problems but but on the

other hand it's really good here

everything's best for something worse

for something else just take that as a

as a truth

truth

mark those things down

as you enumerate things

but if anybody advocates for the

adoption of a design at this stage or

rejections that's a stupid idea why is

it even here

uh if take them aside if you care about them

them

and try and help modify the behavior

before it destroys your team

because the decision making the refining

comes after you've got a full pallet you

start to sort things you see them

categorizing you'll start to cluster

that's why you have these big boards and

mood boards you spread things around

that's a social aspect of the

process and now you're starting to see

the patterns you're starting to see

things about where this relates to that

and how does it relate to the other

problems because we've got other

problems because there's a whole

different part of the project

and then you can start to make a

holistic view

because you've got a whole overview of

the whole thing before you make those

decisions prematurely

and now the second place of creativity

is the creativity you bring to the

criteria the heuristics according to

which you make decisions

now you can start to do the evaluation

because you've all got agreement on

what the things are and how they relate

or consensus or under agreement who

disagree even but then you start to do that

that

and these are separate phases they have

very different social protocols in terms

of how you behave

and what your purpose is and if you do

not make a clear line

between the two it's going to fail

it's or

it's going to fail more often than it

needs to

so here's the enumeration this is great

i'm a designer come here the world's my

oyster i can do anything i want i'm just

going to fill up this cone a funnel it's

going to just get here and i've got all

these ideas this is all wow this is

great i'm creating things wow wow wow

this is really great

isn't design a wonderful creative thing

it's so positive

no it isn't it's the most negative thing

in the world you start off with a

million things once you get into the

refinement thing and you only get out so

almost every idea is going to be rejected

rejected

and so and most of them are going to be

yours probably it was

something you contributed to came out

there but no you contributed to all of

them by the virtue of going through this

process everybody owns the final design

no matter where that particular thing

came because you contributed to showing

that it was the right thing and

and

and of course these things can overlap

they're going on at the same time and so

there's these little cycles going all

through the process that that um you

start off with the big problems that

define the whole architecture and then

the as you go into refining the class or

problems happen but they're smaller but

they still

are are moving

and so it's sort of like this we

enumerate here on the principal things

and so we start to refine but when we

get to here we get the next order of

problems and so then we go up here and

now we get those we come down so the

level of problems come and we go down

like that so it's like this kind of

structure of enumeration that but each

it's for each class of problems so it's

an iterative thing

but let's be very clear the decisions we

made here they have to hold through

right to there

and and there's got to be a really good

reason you backtrack and rethink and

at microsoft listen if i want to change

something in an operating system there's

3 000 programmers working on that one

design 3000 and that's not including the

backtracking once you've invested

a couple man centuries or person

centuries in the project is kind of expensive

expensive

that's why at the early stages of design

you've got a group of you know let's say

whether it's 10 or 30 or in some cases

100 people working on that on the early stages

stages

that's way fewer

and it's easier to backtrack and revise

revise

when at that early stage than it is when

you've got 3 000 as opposed to

give an example about design so since

your architectures i i love architecture

i love architecture for all kinds of

reasons uh i had people like doug uh

you know pushing this stuff because it's

just a great thing of design but i think

that this is the this is a seattle

public library it was done by oma um

um

josh prince ramos was the architect but

it's around cool house's company

and um

and i wandered because it was a

microsoft i was working at microsoft at

the time i wanted this did a anatomy the

the the person who henry chung who

designed the sketching book actually did

all the interior graphics and the

wayfinding in this building for for josh

and so we spent some time with josh uh

new york i went down just

to try and talk about this because it's

a project that's on a scale of the

things that we do in software and and

and so there's a timeline here that i

think is really important so the call

for proposals was in november 1998. um

the building opened in

july 2004. um

the contract was awarded in may 1999.

and the construction began in 2002

and um and again you see where it's

opened now what is kind of interesting

is that um

the word was given here

um the thing that um already by uh

this they had this um model

model done

done

and it's clearly uh capturing uh the

what the adventure building but you

could sort of say hey the design's done

and and if as architects you'll know

you'll see the model say hey you've

already done the design what so what

well no you haven't

you've defined sort of the form that all the

the

the you know where's the plumbing

where's the where's the power where's

how are the floors laid out

and so on so forth but the thing is this

is but most people who aren't designers

and say hey you've already that's the

design no it's not it's a representation

of the form

and nothing to do with the experience

and and what i find interesting is the

construction starting here it goes that

long but the design cycle

started there and what's critical is the

design not but not the finished thing

the design wasn't finished till after

the building had opened

because you because no matter with 3d

graphics everything else

the even the most visionary architects

whereas frank gehry rem cool house or anybody

anybody

um when they're walking through they cannot

cannot

fully visualize what's appropriate and

those fine level of details to tune the

building until they can actually walk

through it in a near finished state

no matter how great their imagination is

and so they're going to be making those

detailed changes after the billing's

even been delivered

and and the same thing's true in

software and by the way

what nobody pays attention to in my

world is the fact that there was a whole

other architecture firm hired to write

the brief the design brief and the proposals

proposals

that in taking on that job they weren't

allowed to bid on the contract so that

it is architects who were deeply

involved in setting and preparing the call

design fits in off all these stages and

in every every one of them at every

stage and every class of problem

sketching is part of the process

so let's just remind ourselves that

that

this is clearly an architectural sketch

and by the way this is another product

that architects do

and most people don't they think oh

that's kind of the no no this is the key

part this is the meat and potatoes this

is the stuff inside that model

that's what sort of got the model going

but even there there's some vague

notions here but this says we're down to

the point where we're starting to do

blueprints to build this is definitely

not something you give to bill

so let's talk about filling the funnel

you got to work fast

you got to enumerate not adjudicate

you have to take marks off for good work

you have to be playful so that you don't

care you're not getting all uptight

about things and there's a process

called 10 by 10 so you just get small

groups you each come out you take an

idea you do 10 versions and then you

take but you have multiple people you um

and you

you just start to build these things up

and you you break into small groups and

each one does a few maybe you can't come

up with ten ideas but you can come up

with two so get five people now you've

got ten or you you can work like that

you must have multiples they must be

different and you must have a diversion

views and so having one

editorial view point from the beginning

is going to constrain the design um

um

and and

and i'm not going to go through this

there's a workbook that goes that's even

much cheaper than the book that that

that doug showed that that goes through

exercises of how to do this stuff it's

online um there's tutorials and that

sort of stuff so i'm not going to go

through that there's just not enough

time but

i want to but what i want to get to are

some things that aren't in the book and

weren't there that that subsequently if

i ever was going to and i'm not

do a revision

um what i would state differently and

the main thing was i keep talking about um

um

uh you know jimi hendrix and the the art

experienced and that says what are your

references and stuff like that and i

talked about the inherent nature of

designers to be collectors and get all

these reference objects and have them around

around

and i realized

and it i can't tell you how um blind i

am about certain things it's really

important to be self-critical and

reflective because you can learn um

um the

the

marcel prus the french

author philosopher had this great

statement he says

the only true voyage of discovery is not

to go to different places but to see

through different eyes

and as designers that's our job when i say

say

the creativity is making the obvious

obvious before it's obvious how do you

do that you get different eyes

you train yourself to become an optician

you figure out different lenses in which

to view things where do you find those

lenses by looking around what are the

lenses other people when people say

something and you say wow i never

thought about that i never saw that no

no what you should then the next step machine

machine

wow that's really neat i didn't see that

why didn't i see that

next question how did you see that

what is it in you and your training that

gave you that insight

remember says it's it's prospecting it's

prospecting for lenses as well as it is

for the things that lenses reveal

and and and

and so

like marcel duchamp

and i

did this in 1913 it's already made he

made art picasso did the same thing he

took a bicycle seat some handlebars and

made a sculpture of a bowl on the wall

just taking found objects and making things

i

didn't realize

because i just talked about these things

as reference objects that form and

design but no

these are material form of sketching

and i'll tell you what i mean by that

these ready-mades

are simply things you found

found reference objects and

that you can use but when appropriate

to inform the design

and they're and that's a very and they

are really quick they're right there

make use of them they're a different

material but that is still a sketch

so i had this

um i mentioned i had this background in

music and this is me back in the day

somewhere around 1970

2 or 73 there's a bunch of

pretty interesting synthesizers in the

studio that i worked in and helped build

all of these instruments synthesized sound

sound

these sine waves and different things

and then you could modify what you synthesized

synthesized

but then along came this device it was

called a sampler instead of synthesizing

sounds you basically went out

and with a microphone recorded it and

put it on the keyboard and then you

could just call it back and and process

now

in a way

all the sketches

that i've talked about so far have been

synthesized sketches

and what i missed despite this

background and even having that

vocabulary synthesizers and samplers and

understanding completely the difference

and there for some purpose and the

difference in value

and when

it never occurred to me

that by going up with found objects like ready-mades

ready-mades

i was actually sketching

and the sketching process was the

creation of the things i found

interesting collected

and by the way i now have over 800 um

devices and objects that inform my

the

digital devices that we use which i'm

now curating to give away to a museum but

but

probably cooper hewitt in new york but

the key thing is um

um

this notion of sampling

explains the whole compulsion that most

designers have about collecting

it is a form of sketching all of the

things my whole collection started

because the fastest way to convey an

idea is i went and found something

here's an example these are four of the

somewhere around 40 smart watches i have

in my collection

and i would put all of these on my wrist

because i

because i wanted to this is when the

iphone had first come out with touch

screens i'd already been working on

touch screens for some like 10 years

before that happened

and everyone's talking about touch

interfaces and i wanted to make a point

because i really do not like fuzzy

thinking but i've got to train help

train people not to think in that fuzzy

way and don't follow what the press or

some idiots say just because it's said

loud it doesn't make it true we know

three of these watches have touch screens

and

i would suggest to you

that you know that this watch is a

calculator watch

and furthermore you know that because

the keypads are calculator keys and

there's mechanical keys to enter the

numbers and there's where you see the results

results

that i can expect and by the way this is

the watch that does not have a touch screen

this watch is a calculator watch from

the same manufacturer

and unless you uh were fooling around

you would never know

that it's a calculator watch

because there's no keys

because if one of the reason you'd know

is there's a divide sign multiply sign

and it's minus sign and a plus sign here

but the key thing is

you have to enter the numbers by pushing

and use a touch screen it's a soft

keyboard for the heart but that

compromises the amount of space for the

numbers on the screen

but it means you don't have all those

little buttons and

it's but still

they're not mechanical buttons you've

got these little touch things your

fingers are fat and it's awkward to type on

on

but it works

and it has a touchscreen

you can't tell

now this one's even more interesting

because it's got a tiny little screen up here

here

it is also a calculator watch

it has a button on the side here

that turns on the touch screen that's

the same it's the same place on this one

as well

but there's no place to have a graphical keyboard

keyboard

how the hell are you supposed to put the

numbers in well you know what you put

them in way faster and way better than

any of the other

the other two calculator watches because

what you do is you just write on the

surface and you just write one plus two

equals the number comes up on the screen

up there

because it just lets you print like you

learned how to print in kindergarten

and you can do that when you're walking

around you can do it with your finger

and you can write large because you

write each letter on top of the previous

one or each number on top of it and they

do the same thing in terms of the operators

operators

the plus sign the minus sign the divide sign

and by the way this watch with a touch

touchscreen that had gesture recognition

was released in 1984 for 99 and it had a

battery that lasted for

for

this watch

has a touch screen

there isn't a calculator

um but it lets you um

switch modes from an altimeter

to a thermometer to alarms and comp to

to control the compass and the

chronometer you can do all these types

of things on it completely different

function you will never figure this one

out although it's one of my favorite

watches it's one i wear a lot

so the point is

if you talk about touch screens these

three have a lot in common if you talk

about calculators this one this one and

but let me tell you if somebody talks to

you about a touch screen interface

just try to educate them because

because

this touch screen if you know how to use

it teaches you nothing about how to use

this touch screen or this touch screen

knowing how to use any one of these

touch screen watches

does not help you learn use any the

other two the only two watches that were

the skills transfer

are this keyboard here and the keyboard

there and if you know to turn on the

keyboard these two watches

teach each other so they use a they have

a common design language

even if the it's a different dialect

the keyboard is the language

the the mechanical means the execution

is dialect

um the fact i'm using touch on these three

three

you know it's neat but they're night and

day each or except there's only there's

more than night and day there's

there's three primary colors um here in

terms of the use

and conceptually

and i can put those on my watch and i

can give that

to steve balmer who's the ceo of microsoft at the time i can have those

microsoft at the time i can have those on and the space of going up four floors

on and the space of going up four floors i can give them a quick summary of that

i can give them a quick summary of that talk

talk right in front of them with existing

right in front of them with existing products that i just bought on ebay

products that i just bought on ebay and if that doesn't meet the criteria of

and if that doesn't meet the criteria of a sketch i don't know what does

a sketch i don't know what does that saves a huge amount of time

that saves a huge amount of time so here's the point that i want to make

so here's the point that i want to make about design and design education i got

about design and design education i got to tell you that architecture is way

to tell you that architecture is way better at this than

better at this than the fields of human computer interaction

the fields of human computer interaction and hci and that sort of stuff where it

and hci and that sort of stuff where it is by

is by it's pathetic which is pressure i'm

it's pathetic which is pressure i'm getting this collection so that there's

getting this collection so that there's no excuse anymore to be pathetic

no excuse anymore to be pathetic okay here's timeline along here

okay here's timeline along here um here's the past

um here's the past here's now

here's now and here's the future

and here's the future to the right as you go left to right

to the right as you go left to right now

now um

um here's

here's the history of concept a and it follows

the history of concept a and it follows a trajectory graphically represented as

a trajectory graphically represented as that

that now

now i would like you to just use your

i would like you to just use your imagination

imagination where is this going to go in the future

where is this going to go in the future if you had to extend this line

if you had to extend this line how would you do so

how would you do so i would say something like that would be

i would say something like that would be the typical answer again now that is not

the typical answer again now that is not where the future's going to be

where the future's going to be but you can imagine that by the law of

but you can imagine that by the law of inertia

inertia and hysteresis that it's going to be

and hysteresis that it's going to be sort of in that neighborhood you've at

sort of in that neighborhood you've at least got a compass point

least got a compass point to which you've that you can deviate

to which you've that you can deviate from but you kind of know the access

from but you kind of know the access that it's uh that it's on

that it's uh that it's on barring you know

barring you know nuclear war something

nuclear war something and likewise if i do this line

and likewise if i do this line and i could do this with a

and i could do this with a three-year-old they will um draw

three-year-old they will um draw something like that

something like that for the same reasons they'll extrapolate

for the same reasons they'll extrapolate from what happened before to what's

from what happened before to what's going forward

going forward and because one of the things you want

and because one of the things you want to do

to do people talk about disruptive design well

people talk about disruptive design well let's be very clear disruption is really

let's be very clear disruption is really expensive you better be very careful

expensive you better be very careful about the cot the benefit of that cost

about the cot the benefit of that cost of that disruption is is worthwhile

of that disruption is is worthwhile um many companies have failed by trying

um many companies have failed by trying to be disruptive without understanding

to be disruptive without understanding the nature of the process of being

the nature of the process of being destructive and how to design for that

destructive and how to design for that itself

itself and again we come along here and it's

and again we come along here and it's going to extend like that

going to extend like that very different designs different

very different designs different approaches different trajectories

approaches different trajectories and different projections

and different projections but you got something to work with

but you got something to work with so here's the trick and and you can do

so here's the trick and and you can do this with clients

this with clients extend that line because a line is just

extend that line because a line is just a sequence of points and one is a

a sequence of points and one is a sequence of one it's still a sequence

sequence of one it's still a sequence you cannot extrapolate from a point

you cannot extrapolate from a point every direction is the right direction

every direction is the right direction or there's no direction and the point

or there's no direction and the point i'm trying to make here is precisely

that why multiples are important but and sampling is important because you can

sampling is important because you can only sample things that are already

only sample things that are already there that means there is a history

there that means there is a history there's something you can draw on and

there's something you can draw on and coming back to patterns like alexander's

coming back to patterns like alexander's patterns and others there are patterns

patterns and others there are patterns of design in whatever field you're

of design in whatever field you're designing for that are kind of like this

designing for that are kind of like this from which if you're trying to fill the

from which if you're trying to fill the hopper

hopper you can start to look at the past and

you can start to look at the past and say what's been in the hopper before

say what's been in the hopper before and where did it go

and where did it go and now let's work there and use that

and now let's work there and use that not to follow but at least to contrast

not to follow but at least to contrast do the opposite and all these other de

do the opposite and all these other de bono type of things about uh

bono type of things about uh thinking

thinking but but this dot

but but this dot puts to a lie

puts to a lie the notion

the notion of of the

of of the the of the of the

the of the of the nature of creativity

nature of creativity that is harnessed on the great man

that is harnessed on the great man theory

theory the edison

the edison be clear if you go through the lab books

be clear if you go through the lab books he

he and his lab were building on the

and his lab were building on the shoulders of giants and this so here's

shoulders of giants and this so here's the deal

it's not about great invention everything we do

everything we do every success we have

every success we have is due to being able to stand on the

is due to being able to stand on the shoulders of those who came before us

shoulders of those who came before us and the people who don't even know the

and the people who don't even know the shoulders are there are the ones that

shoulders are there are the ones that are crappy designers or lucky

are crappy designers or lucky and they can't repeat it

and they can't repeat it and so part of the curation

and so part of the curation process which is part of the prospecting

process which is part of the prospecting is whose shoulders should we be standing

is whose shoulders should we be standing on

on and the most

and the most important and

important and wonderful

wonderful recognition we can have at the end of

recognition we can have at the end of our careers is not that we invented

our careers is not that we invented something

something but that our shoulders are worth someone

but that our shoulders are worth someone else is standing on

else is standing on and so the curation and the prospecting

and so the curation and the prospecting is about whose work you're building upon

is about whose work you're building upon and so this leads us to

and so this leads us to um

just the next um point of course you got to be ready to

point of course you got to be ready to be wrong but it's a start

be wrong but it's a start this is called the long-nosed theory

this is called the long-nosed theory that you know somewhere around two cert

that you know somewhere around two cert after writing the book i wrote an

after writing the book i wrote an article with kind of

article with kind of i i i actually stole this graphic from

i i i actually stole this graphic from the long tail from chris anderson i just

the long tail from chris anderson i just flipped it around because that's what i

flipped it around because that's what i tend to do i make bad puns all the time

tend to do i make bad puns all the time and i just pointed out that if i looked

and i just pointed out that if i looked at the literature of invention and

at the literature of invention and design is that from the time an idea

design is that from the time an idea came to the time it reached a billion

came to the time it reached a billion dollar industry it was almost always at

dollar industry it was almost always at least 20 years there are no new ideas

least 20 years there are no new ideas most of those ideas are below the radar

most of those ideas are below the radar that's why nobody's aware of them

that's why nobody's aware of them and

and so we were doing my group capacitive

so we were doing my group capacitive multi-touch in 1984. it wasn't until

multi-touch in 1984. it wasn't until 2007 that mike uh that the iphone came

2007 that mike uh that the iphone came out and and microsoft surface came out

out and and microsoft surface came out with that so that's when multi-touch

with that so that's when multi-touch started to happen it took that long it

started to happen it took that long it was just sitting there waiting for

was just sitting there waiting for anybody to stick their head below the

anybody to stick their head below the radar multiple companies did and they

radar multiple companies did and they failed because they didn't know how to

failed because they didn't know how to use it

use it but they but it was there for the

but they but it was there for the picking

picking almost everything is like that if you go

almost everything is like that if you go through the national accounting of

through the national accounting of science and others and look at the data

science and others and look at the data everything in our world today

everything in our world today has had at least 20. the mouse was

has had at least 20. the mouse was invented so to speak in 1965 it wasn't

invented so to speak in 1965 it wasn't that macintosh came out to 1984 with one

that macintosh came out to 1984 with one that was two years after microsoft and

that was two years after microsoft and apple had also

apple had also launched mice but nobody knew about them

launched mice but nobody knew about them and

and and and actually 1968 there was a

and and actually 1968 there was a commercial mouse in in

commercial mouse in in germany that nobody knew about

germany that nobody knew about but it wasn't until windows 95 fully 30

but it wasn't until windows 95 fully 30 years

years and by the way i used to mouse for the

and by the way i used to mouse for the first time as a musician in 1971 at the

first time as a musician in 1971 at the national research of canada because they

national research of canada because they built an animation and computer music

built an animation and computer music system that used to mouse

system that used to mouse and nobody knew about it think about

and nobody knew about it think about that 71 and they'd had the most in 69 71

that 71 and they'd had the most in 69 71 84 is when the macintosh came out and it

84 is when the macintosh came out and it wasn't till windows 95 that everybody

wasn't till windows 95 that everybody had one

had one it nothing

it nothing we here's the deal

we here's the deal anything that's going to be a billion

anything that's going to be a billion dollar industry in the next five years

dollar industry in the next five years is already at least 15 years old

and and so you have to know the history but

and so you have to know the history but the if you want to talk about mining man

the if you want to talk about mining man this is the space you mine you mind the

this is the space you mine you mind the past because just like i mine it for

past because just like i mine it for those watches but you've got to know how

those watches but you've got to know how to prospect but there's a very fine

to prospect but there's a very fine distinction

distinction between riffing off and ripping off

between riffing off and ripping off and so no we're not

and so no we're not plagiarizing i can look at johnny ive's

plagiarizing i can look at johnny ive's work

work one of the most influential industrial

one of the most influential industrial designers in the last 50 years at apple

designers in the last 50 years at apple the work he's done i can tell you where

the work he's done i can tell you where his ideas came from because he's a

his ideas came from because he's a scholar he really did his homework he

scholar he really did his homework he knows the history well and and he knew

knows the history well and and he knew who shoulders to stand on most people

who shoulders to stand on most people don't see that

don't see that and they just think oh he's a genius no

and they just think oh he's a genius no and then they try to do johnny ive

and then they try to do johnny ive without doing the homework and knowing

without doing the homework and knowing the history and they can't and they fail

the history and they can't and they fail because they're trying to do something

because they're trying to do something johnny i couldn't do either neither

johnny i couldn't do either neither could i

could i because they don't know how important it

because they don't know how important it is to to to to

is to to to to recognize a giant much less choose which

recognize a giant much less choose which one you want and and why

one you want and and why so there's a slack line this is this

so there's a slack line this is this thing from climbing that you know you're

thing from climbing that you know you're walking across these canyons and doing

walking across these canyons and doing silly things but you're out there on on

silly things but you're out there on on a loop

a loop and

and and what's important about this

and what's important about this is that

is that you could sort of say you must be insane

you could sort of say you must be insane to do something like that

to do something like that well i'll put it to you this way

well i'll put it to you this way every one of you must be insane to be a

every one of you must be insane to be a designer

designer but i'd also say thank god for that

but i'd also say thank god for that insanity

insanity because the world needs the same people

because the world needs the same people of your particular

of your particular demand the demented state that your

demand the demented state that your parents let you go to school or you're

parents let you go to school or you're putting yourself to school to become a

putting yourself to school to become a designer

designer god

god we have never needed designers more than

we have never needed designers more than we need them now but understand you're

we need them now but understand you're taking on an extreme sport

taking on an extreme sport that makes that going so i want to tell

that makes that going so i want to tell you because i do some of this stuff

you because i do some of this stuff because i'm curating my own experience

because i'm curating my own experience to learn how to deal with risk

to learn how to deal with risk and i've got to tell you i'm going to

and i've got to tell you i'm going to show you right now

show you right now the difference between risk and danger

the difference between risk and danger they're two very different things yeah

they're two very different things yeah that's me i'm climbing up a frozen

that's me i'm climbing up a frozen waterfall in the ghost valley and just

waterfall in the ghost valley and just outside of banff

outside of banff most people if you haven't broken up in

most people if you haven't broken up in canada it's a dangerous thing to just

canada it's a dangerous thing to just walk across a frozen lake that's

walk across a frozen lake that's horizontalized think about the suicidal

horizontalized think about the suicidal if you're going to try to go up

if you're going to try to go up verticalize

verticalize but no i could probably take

but no i could probably take i i wouldn't do it because i'm not

i i wouldn't do it because i'm not qualified but i have friends that could

qualified but i have friends that could take you out and in a weekend you could

take you out and in a weekend you could be doing stuff

be doing stuff so

so what do you need when you go into a

what do you need when you go into a danger sport extreme sport like compared

danger sport extreme sport like compared to ice climbing design is way more

to ice climbing design is way more dangerous

dangerous if you don't know how to do it the risk

if you don't know how to do it the risk of failure colossal failure and crashing

of failure colossal failure and crashing and burning is really high

and burning is really high so how you do and so how do you deal

so how you do and so how do you deal with it

with it first

first you got to figure out you got to get the

you got to figure out you got to get the right skills

and the next thing is um

um having had the right skills

having had the right skills um

um you have to have um

the right fitness you need to be trained

you need to be trained you have to practice

you have to practice don't come out of the gate running full

don't come out of the gate running full speed

speed and you have to have the right tools

and you have to have the right tools and again it says well what is the right

and again it says well what is the right fitness how do i train what tools what

fitness how do i train what tools what are the required tools

are the required tools every one of these things

every one of these things is this room where you need to design

is this room where you need to design and you need to sketch you can use your

and you need to sketch you can use your design skills the fundamentals we're

design skills the fundamentals we're talking about

talking about to figure out enumerate and be creative

to figure out enumerate and be creative about what skills required that you

about what skills required that you might be that other people don't invent

might be that other people don't invent the geiger counter

the geiger counter the fitness

the fitness new training way

new training way new tools

new tools and most important who are your partners

and most important who are your partners and if you have the right skills fitness

and if you have the right skills fitness tools and partners you can turn

tools and partners you can turn something which is

something which is uh would be suicidal for somebody

uh would be suicidal for somebody without those to something which is uh

without those to something which is uh much safer than riding a bicycle down

much safer than riding a bicycle down the streets of toronto

the streets of toronto the most dangerous thing

the most dangerous thing is to take no risk

is to take no risk that will kill you

that will kill you because it'll be sure death but a long

because it'll be sure death but a long slow

slow atrophy

atrophy and so

and so confront it deal with it and build

confront it deal with it and build rather than fade away

rather than fade away and so there's a couple things about the

and so there's a couple things about the design of the team first thing is listen

design of the team first thing is listen be very clear there are no geniuses

be very clear there are no geniuses the dirty little secret of highly

the dirty little secret of highly accomplished people who seem to be

accomplished people who seem to be superstars is what they've had to

superstars is what they've had to neglect in order to become highly

neglect in order to become highly accomplished

accomplished so when we see them they're so brilliant

so when we see them they're so brilliant and that you are like the deer in the

and that you are like the deer in the head proverbial headlights all you can

head proverbial headlights all you can see is this brilliance because you're

see is this brilliance because you're blinded by it and when you can't see

blinded by it and when you can't see there's nothing in the shadows because

there's nothing in the shadows because they to get that brilliant it's a

they to get that brilliant it's a full-time job and they've had to neglect

full-time job and they've had to neglect things that everyone else would take for

things that everyone else would take for granted

granted don't be fooled

don't be fooled and the people to stay away from are the

and the people to stay away from are the ones who believe that their brilliance

ones who believe that their brilliance is full 360.

is full 360. and and when you are hiring it's

and and when you are hiring it's critical

critical that people are aware of their

that people are aware of their weaknesses

weaknesses and and and welcome

and and and welcome someone else filling in the gaps

someone else filling in the gaps as opposed to feeling like you're

as opposed to feeling like you're threatening them

threatening them the smarter i am at what i do

the smarter i am at what i do the more i have to acknowledge my

the more i have to acknowledge my ignorance in other areas and my

ignorance in other areas and my dependence upon others and that's

dependence upon others and that's fundamental to the design studio mutual

fundamental to the design studio mutual respect and so on so let's put it this

respect and so on so let's put it this way you've seen these t-shaped people

way you've seen these t-shaped people and this is how you construct the team

and this is how you construct the team because this is the most important thing

because this is the most important thing in design other than perhaps the process

in design other than perhaps the process so we've heard about this but this is a

so we've heard about this but this is a different way to take it this is the

different way to take it this is the breadth of your experience

breadth of your experience um this is the depth

um this is the depth of your expertise

of your expertise be very clear

be very clear there's a difference between literacy

there's a difference between literacy which is a shallow depth

which is a shallow depth versus expertise which it comes as

versus expertise which it comes as literacy and down like so

literacy and down like so every person you hire and you work with

every person you hire and you work with you want to have this type of thing

you want to have this type of thing they're really deep they have to be deep

they're really deep they have to be deep because the problems you're dealing with

because the problems you're dealing with now are incredibly complex require deep

now are incredibly complex require deep deep expertise

deep expertise you can't be superficial but that but

you can't be superficial but that but because of that you're so deep you don't

because of that you're so deep you don't have the breath to deal with the real

have the breath to deal with the real the whole problem

the whole problem so you need others so if you're the

so you need others so if you're the experienced designer

experienced designer you need somebody who's got the same

you need somebody who's got the same profile but in a different uh

profile but in a different uh depth in a different area in business

depth in a different area in business and in technology

and in technology and um

and um and

and and you know at stanford now and so on

and you know at stanford now and so on this is the stuff that the t i didn't

this is the stuff that the t i didn't deal with t stuff i just started to do

deal with t stuff i just started to do it this type of animation but it's this

it this type of animation but it's this bxt

bxt model which is

model which is what we practice and the stanford does

what we practice and the stanford does at the design school because if you take

at the design school because if you take these people you form a team

these people you form a team notice what you've got you've got you've

notice what you've got you've got you've got a breadth now sufficient if you

got a breadth now sufficient if you chose the right people and you know the

chose the right people and you know the tech skills that are required that you

tech skills that are required that you put together for your team again coming

put together for your team again coming back to the ice climbing but dude but

back to the ice climbing but dude but these overlapping parts of literacy give

these overlapping parts of literacy give you a common ground so you can respect

you a common ground so you can respect and have some enough understanding of

and have some enough understanding of each other's sport and understand that

each other's sport and understand that there's a difference in expertise and

there's a difference in expertise and and

and and and literacy

and and literacy and if we just wrap this around you'll

and if we just wrap this around you'll see that it now becomes all

see that it now becomes all all-encompassing

all-encompassing you have to design the team for the

you have to design the team for the project and the skills are required

project and the skills are required because you have to recruit you need the

because you have to recruit you need the best expertise and this is why your

best expertise and this is why your teams need to be floating

teams need to be floating but you but the fundamental thing here

but you but the fundamental thing here is because we're littered about each

is because we're littered about each other's work we have respect and we

other's work we have respect and we respect them

respect them and their expertise and each person has

and their expertise and each person has the final vote and the deciding vote on

the final vote and the deciding vote on any issue within their domain modulo the

any issue within their domain modulo the person who's

person who's bankrolling the thing they get to to

bankrolling the thing they get to to have a say as well

have a say as well so this basically comes down this notion

so this basically comes down this notion that that of what i've said before that

that that of what i've said before that is that um

is that um the renaissance is over

the renaissance is over uh but long live a renaissance

uh but long live a renaissance and then one other thing about this in

and then one other thing about this in terms of just to go this is that um

terms of just to go this is that um there used to be this prejudice against

there used to be this prejudice against what people call eye shaped people

what people call eye shaped people because they're term narrow and just

because they're term narrow and just they're just not breath but no no that's

they're just not breath but no no that's not i got a different version because

not i got a different version because the eye shaped person is also a t-shaped

the eye shaped person is also a t-shaped person but in a different way but it has

person but in a different way but it has to be an eye-shaped person with a serif

to be an eye-shaped person with a serif font because here i've got i've got um

font because here i've got i've got um skills here

skills here and

and at the level of conceptual thinking and

at the level of conceptual thinking and down here in terms of sense of materials

down here in terms of sense of materials and practical stuff

and practical stuff and what you need

and what you need from my perspective

from my perspective is is you need to cultivate

is is you need to cultivate a deep sense of

a deep sense of the mud the dirt and grime and the

the mud the dirt and grime and the clay the metal the welding the the

clay the metal the welding the the glasses the markers and paper all this

glasses the markers and paper all this the foam core

the foam core you need to have a strong sense of

you need to have a strong sense of materials

materials at the ground level

at the ground level so your feet are down that mud

so your feet are down that mud and and have your head in the clouds

and and have your head in the clouds working at the conceptual so you can

working at the conceptual so you can actually go to abstractions

actually go to abstractions and the thing that i find the most

and the thing that i find the most successful people are in design are the

successful people are in design are the ones who have the ability to take things

ones who have the ability to take things to abstraction and can think abstractly

to abstraction and can think abstractly and find the high order issues

and find the high order issues while at the same time having comfort

while at the same time having comfort down in the mud

down in the mud and have your feet in the mud head in

and have your feet in the mud head in the clouds and be comfortable walking

the clouds and be comfortable walking and if you find yourself and you talk to

and if you find yourself and you talk to each other about about how you work that

each other about about how you work that way um if you see somebody who can

way um if you see somebody who can really think conceptually and bump

really think conceptually and bump things up to the right level of

things up to the right level of abstraction that you can actually make

abstraction that you can actually make the problem manageable talk to them

the problem manageable talk to them learn how they do that practice that if

learn how they do that practice that if you're if you're and and

you're if you're and and they're probably sometimes not as good

they're probably sometimes not as good down on the material side this is where

down on the material side this is where we are mutually support and this is

we are mutually support and this is where we build up literacy in these

where we build up literacy in these parts so that we can complement each

parts so that we can complement each other in the design team

other in the design team and i'm just going to finish up here by

and i'm just going to finish up here by just saying how does this go um listen

just saying how does this go um listen uh this is one of the most beautiful

uh this is one of the most beautiful products i've ever had anything at all

products i've ever had anything at all to do with and i've had very little with

to do with and i've had very little with this one but this is a surface too this

this one but this is a surface too this is this is a you know a computer that is

is this is a you know a computer that is a designer stream it works it's it's

a designer stream it works it's it's just it's just a

just it's just a a nice piece of work um it's not

a nice piece of work um it's not i'm not saying anything against apple or

i'm not saying anything against apple or anybody else it just happens to be i

anybody else it just happens to be i love this particular device it's my

love this particular device it's my favorite computer that you use

favorite computer that you use but all the things i talked about

but all the things i talked about can lead to to this uh if you're

can lead to to this uh if you're interested in industrial design the

interested in industrial design the hinges on these things are just crazy

hinges on these things are just crazy but but it also extends up to

but but it also extends up to architecture everything i'm talking

architecture everything i'm talking about could fit into this house or any

about could fit into this house or any other house you'd like to find so we can

other house you'd like to find so we can move from the industrial design the

move from the industrial design the objects in the house and the software

objects in the house and the software inside those objects maybe to the house

inside those objects maybe to the house itself

itself but

but what's important about today

what's important about today is that the problems are changing and

is that the problems are changing and they're moving

they're moving and they now have to incorporate into

and they now have to incorporate into this case of from the house

this case of from the house um

um uh you have to go up in this hierarchy

uh you have to go up in this hierarchy to the city

to the city and so we need to be literate in the

and so we need to be literate in the equivalent by analogy of urban planning

equivalent by analogy of urban planning it's not enough to be an architect who

it's not enough to be an architect who cares how beautiful your house is if

cares how beautiful your house is if you're in a context which is socially or

you're in a context which is socially or ecologically a disaster

ecologically a disaster and the most important challenge all of

and the most important challenge all of us have today

us have today is around how do we think ecologically

is around how do we think ecologically from the micro level to the macro level

from the micro level to the macro level and try and find a way

and try and find a way to

to do within our power

do within our power incremental positive steps and and

incremental positive steps and and that's where the deepest level of design

that's where the deepest level of design and most impactful level of design in

and most impactful level of design in the long term and we can't do that alone

the long term and we can't do that alone either in terms of our individual

either in terms of our individual projects but in terms of the larger

projects but in terms of the larger ecology but we can at least take that as

ecology but we can at least take that as a principle and not just do clever smart

a principle and not just do clever smart things

things god prevent me from do dads

god prevent me from do dads we have to think systematically

we have to think systematically and that again affects

and that again affects the composition of the team

the composition of the team and the clients we choose and how we

and the clients we choose and how we actually train our clients in the same

actually train our clients in the same way that clients train us

way that clients train us and

and i guess this is the thing

i guess this is the thing [Music]

[Music] when i started saying the computer side

when i started saying the computer side of things the tools

of things the tools the real thing was my god could we

the real thing was my god could we actually make this work and not have a

actually make this work and not have a crash

crash word processors didn't work nothing

word processors didn't work nothing worked and people would buy this stuff

worked and people would buy this stuff no

no those days are gone today essentially we

those days are gone today essentially we can do anything we'd think about

can do anything we'd think about anything we dream of and i prefer for me

anything we dream of and i prefer for me not to be trying to send two or so rich

not to be trying to send two or so rich people up into space and iraq

people up into space and iraq it's like facing real fundamental

it's like facing real fundamental problems

problems and and

and and at all levels

at all levels and what i've tried to say with this

and what i've tried to say with this going from the object to the ecosystem

going from the object to the ecosystem through the house everything else

through the house everything else the tools and the skills that we've

the tools and the skills that we've talked about in terms of design

talked about in terms of design will

will apply at every level of this and

apply at every level of this and furthermore vertically as well as

furthermore vertically as well as horizontally and

horizontally and and

and and so it doesn't matter what field of

and so it doesn't matter what field of design it's the practice and the process

design it's the practice and the process that you've learned to make yourself a a

that you've learned to make yourself a a master craftsman if not even if

master craftsman if not even if or even a journeyman in this in this in

or even a journeyman in this in this in this in this field

this in this field and um and i just say this it's that

and um and i just say this it's that evolution and things evolving the

evolution and things evolving the technology in society and so on that's

technology in society and so on that's just a scientific concept

just a scientific concept this guy mccary versus sociologists he

this guy mccary versus sociologists he made this lovely comment he says

made this lovely comment he says progress

progress um evolution is the scientific concept

um evolution is the scientific concept progress

progress um

um isn't that

isn't that um

um that's a spelling table for me progress

that's a spelling table for me progress is an ethical one

is an ethical one and

and and

and every decision we make

every decision we make it's the final thing to say sort of

it's the final thing to say sort of technology he's one of my heroes his

technology he's one of my heroes his name's melvin kransberg he said

name's melvin kransberg he said technology is not good it's not bad but

technology is not good it's not bad but nor is it neutral it will be some

nor is it neutral it will be some combination of the two

combination of the two every decision you make every decision

every decision you make every decision is an ethical decision the fundamental

is an ethical decision the fundamental question is this are you even aware of

question is this are you even aware of the fact

the fact and then even more are you aware to know

and then even more are you aware to know how to do the triage and make the

how to do the triage and make the decisions necessary to err on the side

decisions necessary to err on the side of the positive

of the positive and as opposed to bias to the negative

and as opposed to bias to the negative and be aware of what the weaknesses are

and be aware of what the weaknesses are if you don't do that

if you don't do that you could be facebook and and see what

you could be facebook and and see what happened because they said oh what could

happened because they said oh what could happen we'll fix it

happen we'll fix it if it breaks we'll fix it no

if it breaks we'll fix it no the errors there were areas of design

the errors there were areas of design that were known in advance they could

that were known in advance they could have been avoided and

have been avoided and they sacrificed that for greed or

they sacrificed that for greed or further further growth

further further growth and it's it's fundamental here that we

and it's it's fundamental here that we have to start thinking these ways and

have to start thinking these ways and taking those responsibilities and

taking those responsibilities and understand that um it's not a bad job if

understand that um it's not a bad job if you can actually make a difference

you can actually make a difference against the things that um that are

against the things that um that are happening right now

happening right now german

german actor at this great thing he said

actor at this great thing he said [Music]

[Music] the future is better in the past as well

the future is better in the past as well well how'd that turn out for you

well how'd that turn out for you his name was colonel valentine

his name was colonel valentine no no

no no i will actually want to make the future

i will actually want to make the future better

better in terms of progress not in terms of

in terms of progress not in terms of change

change and i think with these skills i think

and i think with these skills i think you're earning your careers um

you're earning your careers um you you got the ball to carry and i hope

you you got the ball to carry and i hope this helps pass it on with that update

this helps pass it on with that update questions we've got a bit of time i

questions we've got a bit of time i think we've got about 15 minutes that we

think we've got about 15 minutes that we could spend if you have questions

could spend if you have questions wonderful thank you thank you bill um

wonderful thank you thank you bill um i'm i am monitoring the chat as well but

i'm i am monitoring the chat as well but if anybody wants to um unmute their

if anybody wants to um unmute their microphone and ask bill a question uh

microphone and ask bill a question uh please go ahead

we being canadians we're always a little bit shy about asking the first question

bit shy about asking the first question so um i'll quickly ask

so um i'll quickly ask i'm sorry to ask this one but that

i'm sorry to ask this one but that synthesizer that you were working on

synthesizer that you were working on when you were oh so young what was that

when you were oh so young what was that well oh you know what i can go back

well oh you know what i can go back because uh

because uh why wouldn't i um because i

why wouldn't i um because i somehow

it's just so uh much a part of um

this is just a quick review to trigger your mind as to what

your mind as to what with the questions you wanted to ask we

with the questions you wanted to ask we forgot

forgot okay so

yeah so that's me in 1972 i believe

1972 i believe um 7273 before i went to the netherlands

um 7273 before i went to the netherlands so this synthesizer is called an arp

so this synthesizer is called an arp 2500

2500 and it didn't use patch cards these

and it didn't use patch cards these cherry switches let you make connections

cherry switches let you make connections within it and these are all different

within it and these are all different synthesizer modules so it's

synthesizer modules so it's it's a monophonic keyboard and it's

it's a monophonic keyboard and it's pretty sweet

pretty sweet this is the marvel this is a canadian

this is the marvel this is a canadian thing that

thing that we can't we can't see your screen um oh

we can't we can't see your screen um oh you can't oh that's oh because they're

you can't oh that's oh because they're in the wrong screen okay here we go

okay thank you

thank you now start again this is an rf2500 it is

now start again this is an rf2500 it is i i would still love to have one of

i i would still love to have one of these because but you'd only play one

these because but you'd only play one note at a time but it was an analog

note at a time but it was an analog synthesizer you get all kinds of sound

synthesizer you get all kinds of sound generators they could process the sounds

generators they could process the sounds and filters and do all kinds of uh

and filters and do all kinds of uh things on it um it was a huge thing um

things on it um it was a huge thing um you can now get a an app for your

you can now get a an app for your macintosh or your pc that would emulate

macintosh or your pc that would emulate it exactly

it exactly this thing on my left hand is actually

this thing on my left hand is actually the part that is a tragic story in some

the part that is a tragic story in some sense of design it's got the best all

sense of design it's got the best all the best and all the worst

the best and all the worst it's called a sack but it um if you knew

it's called a sack but it um if you knew anything about a mini mode um it it came

anything about a mini mode um it it came out before the mini moog bob moog was a

out before the mini moog bob moog was a friend of mine uh

friend of mine uh so no slagging off there at all he was

so no slagging off there at all he was brilliant i learned a lot from him but

brilliant i learned a lot from him but it's a single uh keyboard but

it's a single uh keyboard but this is the person who designed this as

this is the person who designed this as the person who taught me about

the person who taught me about capacitive touch at the national

capacitive touch at the national research council of canada when i was up

research council of canada when i was up there working on a computer music system

there working on a computer music system doing with first time i ever saw a

doing with first time i ever saw a computer i was doing a soundtrack for

computer i was doing a soundtrack for right

right a a film

what's a sackbut was an old kind of uh it's like a predecessor uh to the trump

it's like a predecessor uh to the trump uh to a trombone it was uh and and

uh to a trombone it was uh and and and it wasn't it wasn't even but you

and it wasn't it wasn't even but you could

could change notes um you glide you can do the

change notes um you glide you can do the sounding so on top of the keyboard you

sounding so on top of the keyboard you can play one note at a time but there's

can play one note at a time but there's a ribbon controller all the way across

a ribbon controller all the way across so you push down on the key and you

so you push down on the key and you wiggle the key to get vibrato you can

wiggle the key to get vibrato you can push it up and down with the force

push it up and down with the force sensor like after touch when midi came

sensor like after touch when midi came out midi wasn't available yet when this

out midi wasn't available yet when this photograph was taken and you can slide

photograph was taken and you can slide your finger up onto above the keyboard

your finger up onto above the keyboard and then slide to the next note and then

and then slide to the next note and then drop down and hit that note and hit that

drop down and hit that note and hit that so you can actually make sleeps

so you can actually make sleeps so basically you can

so basically you can make smooth transitions uh

make smooth transitions uh between the keyboards gives you random

between the keyboards gives you random access to a discrete set of orders tones

access to a discrete set of orders tones but you could actually slide go sandal

but you could actually slide go sandal between the two by just going up and

between the two by just going up and coming down like a trombone or a violin

coming down like a trombone or a violin as opposed to a normal keyboard it was

as opposed to a normal keyboard it was and and and it had this left-hand

and and and it had this left-hand controller

controller here that let you use like voice formats

here that let you use like voice formats to actually get the various sounds and

to actually get the various sounds and that was very early that you use your

that was very early that you use your non-dominant hand for uh like a game

non-dominant hand for uh like a game controller to change the camera

controller to change the camera dynamically while you could actually get

dynamically while you could actually get that included then you get the tremolo

that included then you get the tremolo vibrato and the glyssandos with the

vibrato and the glyssandos with the right hand on the monica fund it was

right hand on the monica fund it was just a remarkable instrument there were

just a remarkable instrument there were three of them made of this version there

three of them made of this version there were some earlier prototypes and i was

were some earlier prototypes and i was lucky this is the orange one

lucky this is the orange one and this is a cynthia aks it came from

and this is a cynthia aks it came from yeah it was also called the putney this

yeah it was also called the putney this is an earlier version up there

is an earlier version up there behind me there's a whole rack of rack

behind me there's a whole rack of rack mount equipment too but uh it was

mount equipment too but uh it was it was fairly interesting um none of

it was fairly interesting um none of these things stayed in tune

these things stayed in tune and they were largely

and they were largely this one could be used on stage and

this one could be used on stage and that's what i liked about it at that

that's what i liked about it at that time the way as a musician electronic

time the way as a musician electronic music in the 60s and 70s if you

music in the 60s and 70s if you were doing that the great art act of

were doing that the great art act of live performance was to record stuff on

live performance was to record stuff on a reel-to-reel tape recorder take the

a reel-to-reel tape recorder take the tape recorder to the concert hall hook

tape recorder to the concert hall hook it up to a mixer to the speakers and

it up to a mixer to the speakers and then you could be this great artist and

then you could be this great artist and mix this stuff up

mix this stuff up from stereo

from stereo and to the eq in the room and that was

and to the eq in the room and that was the that was your performance that

the that was your performance that didn't quite seem to be as instrumental

didn't quite seem to be as instrumental as adequate and this is what drove the

as adequate and this is what drove the desire and this instrument there and

desire and this instrument there and that guy by meeting him because he was

that guy by meeting him because he was just down the hall

just down the hall he helped invent radar and so they let

he helped invent radar and so they let him play stuff up at nrc which is where

him play stuff up at nrc which is where the computer music system was and the

the computer music system was and the computer animation system was

computer animation system was and um

and um and that's where

and that's where i learned about capacitive touch and its

i learned about capacitive touch and its importance and relevance to music and

importance and relevance to music and other things and that's what led them

other things and that's what led them and that's sort of the step

and that's sort of the step tigers stand in the shoulders of giants

tigers stand in the shoulders of giants hula kane

hula kane that's whose shoulders i was standing on

that's whose shoulders i was standing on that brought the capacitor multi-touch

that brought the capacitor multi-touch and then this guy from

and then this guy from delaware stood on our shoulders and then

delaware stood on our shoulders and then the apple ran with it

the apple ran with it and but there was a guy at bell labs who

and but there was a guy at bell labs who had done it

had done it better than i did at the same time

better than i did at the same time independently it's just

independently it's just we all just contributed that's all and

we all just contributed that's all and uh and everybody riffed off everybody

uh and everybody riffed off everybody else

else but the negative sides of this is why i

but the negative sides of this is why i started building the digital synthesizer

started building the digital synthesizer that you

that you you saw

you saw because it was one of the first portable

because it was one of the first portable digital musical instruments that was

digital musical instruments that was fully digital

fully digital thank you

thank you there is a question in the chat from

there is a question in the chat from hans who says i've been involved in

hans who says i've been involved in numerous debates between mentors and

numerous debates between mentors and students

students on the efficacy of manual sketching with

on the efficacy of manual sketching with pencil and paper versus computer

pencil and paper versus computer sketching given bill's experience with

sketching given bill's experience with computers to generate music what's his

computers to generate music what's his take on hand versus computer sketching

so can i extend that and say and the same thing is true because i used to be

same thing is true because i used to be on the board of the canadian film center

on the board of the canadian film center where um they uh

where um they uh used film and movie cameras and so on

used film and movie cameras and so on and uh

and uh and when and when norman juice and you

and when and when norman juice and you know we talked to him it's all about

know we talked to him it's all about storytelling and i came in and started

storytelling and i came in and started talking about how the digital side of

talking about how the digital side of things there

i have a rule and

and the and what and what the here's the how

the and what and what the here's the how i can give you some tools to answer

i can give you some tools to answer those debates and put them in their

those debates and put them in their place and i don't mean to shut them down

place and i don't mean to shut them down but to basically bring some

but to basically bring some context

context the rule is this i've said it already

the rule is this i've said it already everything's best for something and

everything's best for something and works for something else

works for something else and the wise person is the one who knows

and the wise person is the one who knows the when where why and how to use each

the when where why and how to use each appropriately and when not to

appropriately and when not to and when to transmit from one to the

and when to transmit from one to the other

other they all have their place

they all have their place digital never replaced anything they

digital never replaced anything they just and technology never did

just and technology never did um

um think about paper versus computer

think about paper versus computer sketching think about now

sketching think about now live theater

live theater then to cinema

then to cinema then to television

then to television then to games

then to games then to streaming

then to streaming all of those stages

all of those stages still have a place in the market

none destroyed the other unless they were didn't have any value

unless they were didn't have any value they just changed narrowed the market

they just changed narrowed the market and and but brought in more users so the

and and but brought in more users so the size of the market became larger more

size of the market became larger more people are watching more theater so to

people are watching more theater so to speak whether it's on any of those media

speak whether it's on any of those media but none of them were replaced

but none of them were replaced same thing here

same thing here i have huge respect for working with

i have huge respect for working with paper i do it all the time my look

paper i do it all the time my look um

um i have a post-it note stuck all over my

i have a post-it note stuck all over my desk i have i have but i have i have

desk i have i have but i have i have three pen based computers i have i i

three pen based computers i have i i have all this stuff i use them

have all this stuff i use them differently

differently and it's like the violin doesn't replace

and it's like the violin doesn't replace the cello

the cello and the cello doesn't replace um the

and the cello doesn't replace um the viola and that doesn't replace the

viola and that doesn't replace the contrabass they're all in the violin

contrabass they're all in the violin family and none of them replace anything

family and none of them replace anything else in the orchestra

else in the orchestra and if you're lighthouse you had them in

and if you're lighthouse you had them in the band and toured with a rock band

the band and toured with a rock band with 13 people

with 13 people um

um and so the question is

and so the question is don't not one's better but when would

don't not one's better but when would you use one versus the other

you use one versus the other and and and i would say that uh for a

and and and i would say that uh for a lot of my work

lot of my work uh

uh the

the question is what's more important the way you render the materials you

the way you render the materials you render how you share it it depends who's

render how you share it it depends who's working if i'm working with people that

working if i'm working with people that are um

are um in

in china in a different time zone or in

china in a different time zone or in india

india i'm probably going to use electronic

i'm probably going to use electronic sketching because i could fire it but i

sketching because i could fire it but i would argue that probably

would argue that probably if

if the tools i make for digital drawing and

the tools i make for digital drawing and art draw and sketching aren't don't

art draw and sketching aren't don't bring something better or different

bring something better or different or some real value to paper then paper's

or some real value to paper then paper's way cheaper

way cheaper it feels better

it feels better and um

and um and so

and so what i would be doing typically and how

what i would be doing typically and how i approach things is i sort of say well

i approach things is i sort of say well i'm not gonna try and copy paper i'm

i'm not gonna try and copy paper i'm going to try and capture the skills so

going to try and capture the skills so any skills you have

any skills you have in working with paper and with

in working with paper and with watercolor my wife's a professional

watercolor my wife's a professional artist i i've

artist i i've confronted this when i design a paint

confronted this when i design a paint system uh

system uh which those

which those uh every car in the world is designed

uh every car in the world is designed with a paint system that came out of

with a paint system that came out of my and if you've ever used something

my and if you've ever used something called sketchbook pro um that adobe

called sketchbook pro um that adobe sells now that's that was my product

sells now that's that was my product back in

back in 2000 i think it was but the but the key

2000 i think it was but the but the key the key thing is

the key thing is um

um the the key thing is it's just a

the the key thing is it's just a question of when

question of when this is like is cam our camera is better

this is like is cam our camera is better for capturing the landscape than the

for capturing the landscape than the watercolors or

watercolors or and by the way no watercolor suck why

and by the way no watercolor suck why not use oil no no i should use acrylic

not use oil no no i should use acrylic this would be very clear come back to

this would be very clear come back to film versus digital

film versus digital are you trying to tell me that lead and

are you trying to tell me that lead and oil and pigments are a more holy

oil and pigments are a more holy technology than than electrons

technology than than electrons electronic musical instruments versus

electronic musical instruments versus mechanical electro acoustic versus

mechanical electro acoustic versus mechanical glue sticks they're both

mechanical glue sticks they're both machines

machines the pencil is a machine so they're all

the pencil is a machine so they're all technologies

technologies so now let's get rid of the biases of

so now let's get rid of the biases of what is the favorite it's which is the

what is the favorite it's which is the most appropriate and how do they work

most appropriate and how do they work together

together and why should i be forced to make a

and why should i be forced to make a choice

choice and and uh and how can i have the skills

and and uh and how can i have the skills from one going together because the last

from one going together because the last thing i want to do is

thing i want to do is get rid of canvas and paper but i'd sure

get rid of canvas and paper but i'd sure like to extend the speed with which the

like to extend the speed with which the key thing is if you have a really good

key thing is if you have a really good watercolor thing when i look at

watercolor thing when i look at watercolor

watercolor you get almost perfection you've got

you get almost perfection you've got almost a perfect thing you want to try

almost a perfect thing you want to try something

something and you

and you are afraid that if you do it you'll ruin

are afraid that if you do it you'll ruin the whole

the whole and and so that gives you a chance for

and and so that gives you a chance for experimentation so quick dirty stuff i

experimentation so quick dirty stuff i might um i might switch to i might

might um i might switch to i might switch to digital

switch to digital but what i'd say is the introducing of

but what i'd say is the introducing of markers

markers completely changed industrial design

completely changed industrial design and how the process

and how the process just that from other drawing tools on

just that from other drawing tools on paper forget digital that that

paper forget digital that that technology that was a that was a

technology that was a that was a landmark change if you know anybody

landmark change if you know anybody industrial design

industrial design and uh

and uh and even if you look at how fussy we are

and even if you look at how fussy we are in terms of our fine point hands

in terms of our fine point hands for fine drawing architecture um

for fine drawing architecture um it's

it's it just depends why do we love these

it just depends why do we love these things figure out what the properties

things figure out what the properties are and then you can

are and then you can see how to make better tools even

see how to make better tools even whether they're digital or not

wonderful thank you hans for the question does uh

thank you hans for the question does uh anybody else i'm keeping an eye on the

anybody else i'm keeping an eye on the chat if anybody wants to type in a

chat if anybody wants to type in a question or does anybody want to unmute

question or does anybody want to unmute and ask bill a question

i don't bite and i can't i'm remote otherwise it might bite but i'm not

otherwise it might bite but i'm not going to jump out of the audience and

going to jump out of the audience and smack you in the face either

just just while we're waiting for another question i have to i have to add

another question i have to i have to add a comment and this is a a little bit

a comment and this is a a little bit about the message

sorry terrific go ahead please i did have a really um

have a really um hi bill thanks for your talk um great to

hi bill thanks for your talk um great to great hear your perspectives on design

great hear your perspectives on design and drawing and

and drawing and all those things um

all those things um working as an engineer within the

working as an engineer within the faculty here um i just a really

faculty here um i just a really um basic question about the media that

um basic question about the media that you prefer to use as do you have

you prefer to use as do you have favorite pens or pencils or paper types

favorite pens or pencils or paper types or

or um

um that you you you go to

yeah um so

so you know i i i right now i i tend to use

you know i i i right now i i tend to use a mixture but my favorite because i i'm

a mixture but my favorite because i i'm pencil challenged i

pencil challenged i my son and my wife can just draw without

my son and my wife can just draw without even hatching they just have complete

even hatching they just have complete confidence in line and it pisses me off

confidence in line and it pisses me off that anybody can do that but i'm jealous

that anybody can do that but i'm jealous but in a but also so full of admiration

but in a but also so full of admiration so i find that

so i find that i i can work better with something

i i can work better with something that's very fine tipped and sensitive i

that's very fine tipped and sensitive i but i also have

but i also have a mixture of things depending if with

a mixture of things depending if with what i'm what i'm drawing so i i

what i'm what i'm drawing so i i surround myself with different tools

surround myself with different tools the

the the styluses i use on computers i've

the styluses i use on computers i've worked uh on on these things this one is

worked uh on on these things this one is uh from wacom who's which uh is one of

uh from wacom who's which uh is one of the first companies i visited when i

the first companies i visited when i went to alias to to talk about the sign

went to alias to to talk about the sign of pens but where they can actually

of pens but where they can actually sense tilt and pressure and

sense tilt and pressure and um

um so you can actually get fine beautiful

so you can actually get fine beautiful uh and and you can control different

uh and and you can control different things so they they have different

things so they they have different sensitivities but it's a question of

sensitivities but it's a question of finesse what's a worthy tool you spend

finesse what's a worthy tool you spend so many so much time learning to have

so many so much time learning to have this beautiful craft and then somebody

this beautiful craft and then somebody gives you this it's like

gives you this it's like a lot of computer paint programs they're

a lot of computer paint programs they're like

like you've got these beautiful skills you've

you've got these beautiful skills you've worked through your whole life in high

worked through your whole life in high school you're the best drawer in the

school you're the best drawer in the class on paper and then they give you

class on paper and then they give you this thing it's worse than a crayon it's

this thing it's worse than a crayon it's like

like trying to draw with your best and it's

trying to draw with your best and it's just like

just like i

i here's here's why i think where doug and

here's here's why i think where doug and i sort of

i sort of cross paths and i don't know whether he

cross paths and i don't know whether he would articulate this way but

would articulate this way but but but this holds true with artists too

but but this holds true with artists too that

that there is no profession

because i'm a biased as a musician there's no profession that has a longer

there's no profession that has a longer history of expressing powerful creative

history of expressing powerful creative ideas through a technological

ideas through a technological intermediary than musicians

intermediary than musicians weapons don't count

weapons don't count and and therefore i often uh in europe

and and therefore i often uh in europe when i had to uh sign

when i had to uh sign hotel registers showing your profession

hotel registers showing your profession i would write lutier

i would write lutier which is uh the french word for loot

which is uh the french word for loot builder which has become the generic

builder which has become the generic name for a musical instrument designer

name for a musical instrument designer and builder

and builder and the

and the and the properties all the properties

and the properties all the properties that i would say a musical instrument a

that i would say a musical instrument a digital musical instrument just as a

digital musical instrument just as a digital pen or paint program the measure

digital pen or paint program the measure my measure of a good design is is it

my measure of a good design is is it worth practicing can i improve

worth practicing can i improve and does it make me stupid so i lose my

and does it make me stupid so i lose my skills and it just tries to do it for me

skills and it just tries to do it for me no i want to be able to express

no i want to be able to express everything where i'm in control and if

everything where i'm in control and if it makes me better that's fine

it makes me better that's fine but but in a sense and then like the

but but in a sense and then like the skills i use when i work on the digital

skills i use when i work on the digital will transfer when i go back to paper

will transfer when i go back to paper because i'm not going to get rid of

because i'm not going to get rid of either and the same thing i'm not going

either and the same thing i'm not going to get rid of my conventional

to get rid of my conventional instruments so i kind of throw in my

instruments so i kind of throw in my saxophone because i i've got a

saxophone because i i've got a synthesizer

synthesizer and but the most important thing to

and but the most important thing to respect is the human skill not the thing

respect is the human skill not the thing that enables it it's just a mediator

that enables it it's just a mediator and it has to be analog

and it has to be analog and all of this stuff is digital and it

and all of this stuff is digital and it switches as opposed to flows the reason

switches as opposed to flows the reason the iphone killed microsoft's phone

the iphone killed microsoft's phone business

business isn't because it had a multi-touch it

isn't because it had a multi-touch it wasn't because of icons it wasn't

wasn't because of icons it wasn't because of touch screens all of that

because of touch screens all of that stuff had existed before with existing

stuff had existed before with existing products again if you've gone back into

products again if you've gone back into the history like i have i can illustrate

the history like i have i can illustrate everything i'm saying it was because it

everything i'm saying it was because it was the first digital device

was the first digital device at the consumer level

at the consumer level that had an analog interface it animated

that had an analog interface it animated things flowed they had shape they had

things flowed they had shape they had dynamics and had physics and and by the

dynamics and had physics and and by the way they were terrible at it

way they were terrible at it but relative to the time when it came

but relative to the time when it came out

out it was a night and day

it was a night and day and you just felt ah this feels like

and you just felt ah this feels like normal

normal and so here's my here's the thing about

and so here's my here's the thing about design everybody thinks that they design

design everybody thinks that they design features as opposed to products and they

features as opposed to products and they don't think about design languages so

don't think about design languages so here's here's my my favorite riddle um

here's here's my my favorite riddle um um

do canadian

and transitions have in common

what do canadians and transitions have in common

in common this is a bit of a geeky job

this is a bit of a geeky job they're both dominated by the states

they're both dominated by the states in the sense of when you do a storyboard

in the sense of when you do a storyboard or state transition diagram we'd spend

or state transition diagram we'd spend all our time

all our time in the circles and then just draw a line

in the circles and then just draw a line of an arrow connecting them

the magic that got the iphone where it is is they

that got the iphone where it is is they spent their time on the arrows

spent their time on the arrows and if you look at any book on

and if you look at any book on storyboarding most of them aren't about

storyboarding most of them aren't about story storyboarding but there's one book

story storyboarding but there's one book on

on um

um for directors

for directors and i've worked in hollywood

and i've worked in hollywood and i can just tell you if you look at

and i can just tell you if you look at any storyboard

any storyboard worth of salt

worth of salt it's full of arrows

it's full of arrows there's a huge vocabulary of arrows

there's a huge vocabulary of arrows there's annotations and the arrows will

there's annotations and the arrows will work within the frame and between the

work within the frame and between the frames

frames and there's a lot of text because it's

and there's a lot of text because it's all about the transitions it's all about

all about the transitions it's all about the flow and what we're trying to do is

the flow and what we're trying to do is make it analog make things flow

make it analog make things flow every single thing we do

every single thing we do with every product

with every product is a compound task

is a compound task and if you have to go step interruption

and if you have to go step interruption step interruption for all the micro

step interruption for all the micro steps there's an interruption to get

steps there's an interruption to get from the next step to the next next step

from the next step to the next next step that takes cognitive loads to be able to

that takes cognitive loads to be able to do the planning

do the planning skill to remember the order so you don't

skill to remember the order so you don't make a semantic error and and then and

make a semantic error and and then and there's this is this horrible feeling

there's this is this horrible feeling but when you just go like that

but when you just go like that it flows

it flows and so

and so flow

flow there's this whole part about flowing

there's this whole part about flowing through the cycle that's that's that's

through the cycle that's that's that's fine too i just mean

fine too i just mean undrafted no speed bumps what's the

undrafted no speed bumps what's the activity how to treat it as a whole

activity how to treat it as a whole and and

and and all of my design is that because it's

all of my design is that because it's exactly like music i've got notes i've

exactly like music i've got notes i've got changes in articulation vibrato

got changes in articulation vibrato stuff like that but i'm just playing the

stuff like that but i'm just playing the phrase and i want you to hear the phrase

phrase and i want you to hear the phrase everything else is just amplifying the

everything else is just amplifying the phrase but i'm focused on the

phrase but i'm focused on the microstructure not the macro because

microstructure not the macro because it's poorly designed and that's that's

it's poorly designed and that's that's the case nearly every paint program only

the case nearly every paint program only lets you use one hand

lets you use one hand you cannot draw without rotating the

you cannot draw without rotating the work and so on and so forth with the

work and so on and so forth with the other hand when you're working with

other hand when you're working with paper

paper there's there's there's no no computer

there's there's there's no no computer system that you do that

system that you do that fundamentally i've done video tapes of

fundamentally i've done video tapes of people sketching

people sketching and

and we know by mechanically you can draw

we know by mechanically you can draw better pulling than pushing vertically

better pulling than pushing vertically but but it's less vessel when you're

but but it's less vessel when you're going left to right

going left to right and so you'll rotate depending on the

and so you'll rotate depending on the fine and all these types of things

fine and all these types of things there's all these things about the

there's all these things about the biomechanics and so it isn't about paper

biomechanics and so it isn't about paper it's about the fit to the human

it's about the fit to the human and the paper and our practice on paper

and the paper and our practice on paper have evolved to fit the human whereas

have evolved to fit the human whereas the computers take the superficial thing

the computers take the superficial thing and every piece of paper is nailed to

and every piece of paper is nailed to the table you can't change your

the table you can't change your orientation and you can't hold a palette

orientation and you can't hold a palette in your other hand you have to go up and

in your other hand you have to go up and take your brush way over here

take your brush way over here you know it's it's like

you know it's it's like if you go to the reich's museum and look

if you go to the reich's museum and look at the night watch you do not see it

at the night watch you do not see it full of holes where rembrandt nailed his

full of holes where rembrandt nailed his palette onto this onto the canvas so

palette onto this onto the canvas so they could do that

they could do that and and and it was covering up he could

and and and it was covering up he could just pull it away and and and that all

just pull it away and and and that all those types of actions i studied a human

those types of actions i studied a human i

i the the technology i care about as a

the the technology i care about as a human and then i try to find the the way

human and then i try to find the the way to mediate that that those natural

to mediate that that those natural skills as opposed to saying here let me

skills as opposed to saying here let me fit you to that this isn't perfect

fit you to that this isn't perfect because i'm a genius i know how to do

because i'm a genius i know how to do engineering software and the part is

engineering software and the part is when i come to engineers whether

when i come to engineers whether structural engineers or electrical or

structural engineers or electrical or mechanical engineers the um

mechanical engineers the um the the key thing is they actually get

the the key thing is they actually get it and we can find the common language

it and we can find the common language and the the problem is is that we speak

and the the problem is is that we speak very different languages and um

very different languages and um and i'll just tell you one other thing

and i'll just tell you one other thing as a designer working in a high-tech

as a designer working in a high-tech company i'm actually a translator

company i'm actually a translator because for some fluke i i ended up

because for some fluke i i ended up because i was in a computer artisan

because i was in a computer artisan residence in the computer science

residence in the computer science department i i i'm bilingual i can speak

department i i i'm bilingual i can speak engineer and i can speak uh design and

engineer and i can speak uh design and so this is my biggest tip for the social

so this is my biggest tip for the social things about when you are trying to get

things about when you are trying to get on with others because when i came to

on with others because when i came to microsoft people said those stupid

microsoft people said those stupid designers they have their head in clouds

designers they have their head in clouds they can't do a thing they're useless

they can't do a thing they're useless and stuff like that there is they won't

and stuff like that there is they won't listen to anything and they're just all

listen to anything and they're just all going over this stuff a bunch of hippies

going over this stuff a bunch of hippies and the designers think those engineers

and the designers think those engineers are so ill-retentive they just have no

are so ill-retentive they just have no imagination they're so stuck on things

imagination they're so stuck on things and and it's like no no there's not a

and and it's like no no there's not a single stupid person there

single stupid person there there's i have never met a stupid person

there's i have never met a stupid person i've never met anybody who wasn't highly

i've never met anybody who wasn't highly motivated

motivated they're but there's such cultural

they're but there's such cultural differences but you don't see the

differences but you don't see the differences they all go to the same

differences they all go to the same universities drink the same beer cheer

universities drink the same beer cheer for the same hockey team and stuff like

for the same hockey team and stuff like that and all of a sudden they come to

that and all of a sudden they come to work they're they're just like

work they're they're just like like oil and fit and water so the thing

like oil and fit and water so the thing is this

you can leverage this remember said about the critique this is where it's

about the critique this is where it's really valuable this is where you get in

really valuable this is where you get in danger when you've got people with an

danger when you've got people with an engineering science technology

engineering science technology background versus working with people

background versus working with people with a design background especially in

with a design background especially in architecture where crit is really

architecture where crit is really important and this this

people in the arts background show how good they are

show how good they are but how they can make art or create

but how they can make art or create great things out of anything give me

great things out of anything give me anything and i can i can do make music

anything and i can i can do make music with it

with it that's my pride

that's my pride the analytic

the analytic i mean you know bifurcating in an

i mean you know bifurcating in an exaggerated way

exaggerated way there they prove how smart they are by

there they prove how smart they are by spotting the holes

spotting the holes where the weaknesses are where it's

where the weaknesses are where it's going to fail why it can't do this it

going to fail why it can't do this it can't do that

can't do that and so one side sees each other is fully

and so one side sees each other is fully negative no one thinks that much about a

negative no one thinks that much about a bunch of hippie optimists who are

bunch of hippie optimists who are backgrounded in reality

backgrounded in reality and the fact is if you take cransberg's

and the fact is if you take cransberg's first life and especially something or

first life and especially something or something else

something else if you mediate this through appropriate

if you mediate this through appropriate critique

critique following the rules

following the rules no rejection or advocate or advocating

no rejection or advocate or advocating for rejection or acceptance

for rejection or acceptance just enumerate the pump strengths and

just enumerate the pump strengths and weaknesses and get that all up on the

weaknesses and get that all up on the table without rancor and without uh

table without rancor and without uh judge and just making objective judges

judge and just making objective judges with a design ratio explicit design

with a design ratio explicit design rationale for that judgment

rationale for that judgment then you step back and say oh

then you step back and say oh we were both right but we approached the

we were both right but we approached the problem from different sides but we're

problem from different sides but we're on the same team

on the same team and those types of social mediations i

and those types of social mediations i spend really a lot of my time and i'll

spend really a lot of my time and i'll just say hey stop

just say hey stop um here's what i heard you say

um here's what i heard you say uh here's what i think you said and

uh here's what i think you said and here's what i think you understood is

here's what i think you understood is that correct yes okay and and then but

that correct yes okay and and then but here's what he was meant is that you

here's what he was meant is that you meant yes yes

meant yes yes okay and they were arguing about to tear

okay and they were arguing about to tear each other's throats up when they were

each other's throats up when they were actually agreeing on they actually

actually agreeing on they actually agreed on the same thing they just

agreed on the same thing they just didn't know how to communicate and those

didn't know how to communicate and those are the types of skills that that's

are the types of skills that that's where i talk about the importance of

where i talk about the importance of literacy you have to understand that

literacy you have to understand that we'll use references when i'm dealing

we'll use references when i'm dealing with somebody from engineering or for

with somebody from engineering or for business i want to know who their heroes

business i want to know who their heroes are who are the stars and read and be

are who are the stars and read and be literate on that side so i can try and

literate on that side so i can try and explain things in their vocabulary

explain things in their vocabulary and i and here's the other rule

and i and here's the other rule if i want them to understand design i

if i want them to understand design i think they don't understand anything

think they don't understand anything about design a bunch of idiots that

about design a bunch of idiots that can't read your design they make all

can't read your design they make all these stupid comments

these stupid comments ask yourself do i know as much about

ask yourself do i know as much about what they do how they're evaluated what

what they do how they're evaluated what they aspire to and the nature of their

they aspire to and the nature of their work and how they're about everything

work and how they're about everything as i expect them to have of mine and if

as i expect them to have of mine and if i don't shut up and go learn take them

i don't shut up and go learn take them out

out talk to them forever about what they do

talk to them forever about what they do and stuff like that at a certain point

and stuff like that at a certain point they'll be so embarrassed that it's all

they'll be so embarrassed that it's all about them they'll say oh what do you do

about them they'll say oh what do you do and then they'll ask as opposed to you

and then they'll ask as opposed to you trying to push it

trying to push it and there's all these ways to social

and there's all these ways to social engineer these things when you are

engineer these things when you are working in this diverse heterogeneous

working in this diverse heterogeneous team but by definition

team but by definition a renaissance team is heterogeneous in

a renaissance team is heterogeneous in terms of skills and cultures

terms of skills and cultures and the key thing that holds it together

and the key thing that holds it together is that openness and this willingness to

is that openness and this willingness to actually learn to uh understand each

actually learn to uh understand each other's references who are the great

other's references who are the great people you know if you're talking about

people you know if you're talking about advertising just start talking about

advertising just start talking about bill bernbach or something like that um

bill bernbach or something like that um and so on and and uh and and

and so on and and uh and and and all of a sudden things will change

and all of a sudden things will change and and

and and and people start asking you for advice

and people start asking you for advice about your field and and for their

about your field and and for their problems and back and forth and then you

problems and back and forth and then you know you've made it when each other

know you've made it when each other asking um people from other disciplines

asking um people from other disciplines um for advice on your own discipline

um for advice on your own discipline within the process can i can i ask you

within the process can i can i ask you before

before we go on to the next question you were

we go on to the next question you were about to mention a book um about story

about to mention a book um about story of different kind of storyboarding about

of different kind of storyboarding about the transitions i think from a

the transitions i think from a director's point of view yes

director's point of view yes um

um i i'm gonna have to i can't pull it off

i i'm gonna have to i can't pull it off the top of my head um okay but i it just

the top of my head um okay but i it just ping me and i'll and you can spread it

ping me and i'll and you can spread it out but the book is called shot by shot

out but the book is called shot by shot okay and it's got a blue cover and it's

okay and it's got a blue cover and it's uh it's a book from

uh it's a book from [Music]

[Music] quite a while ago but it's it's it's

quite a while ago but it's it's it's it's it's it's um

it's it's it's um it's it's it's so

it's it's it's so it it's really good and

it it's really good and actually guys work in hollywood he's

actually guys work in hollywood he's taking

taking doing analysis but especially how you

doing analysis but especially how you plan the shots

plan the shots but i've i've worked in

but i've i've worked in sessions some on feature films with you

sessions some on feature films with you know um

know um uh and and and i gotta tell you that i i

uh and and and i gotta tell you that i i worked um

i worked one and now so i was working with the head of production for

with the head of production for lucasfilm and places like that and and

lucasfilm and places like that and and the

and [Music]

[Music] in filmmaking they sketch

in filmmaking they sketch george lucas man i i saw

george lucas man i i saw the complete

the complete um in this case it was the fourth

um in this case it was the fourth episode the the

episode the the one of the pod racers scenes and that

one of the pod racers scenes and that um and i probably have clips on my

um and i probably have clips on my computer and some i could show you but i

computer and some i could show you but i saw that completed film before they even

saw that completed film before they even started principal photography

started principal photography they start

they start um just with animatics and they just

um just with animatics and they just have these little they'll have just

have these little they'll have just paper sketches stuck in and they'll put

paper sketches stuck in and they'll put them in the film they're just standing

them in the film they're just standing there static and the music will be

there static and the music will be starting to come in and they'll have a

starting to come in and they'll have a pacing and disney started this whole

pacing and disney started this whole thing you start with a finished film

thing you start with a finished film it's just um 90 minutes of leader

it's just um 90 minutes of leader and then you start splicing stuff in

and then you start splicing stuff in and and just adding and gradually

and and just adding and gradually refining the dtl editing and so you get

refining the dtl editing and so you get the pacing and and you just have

the pacing and and you just have uh

uh key shots it's like what we use in

key shots it's like what we use in design for mood boards which stick them

design for mood boards which stick them up and uh look at that you have all this

up and uh look at that you have all this stuff it's the same process

stuff it's the same process and it and and it gradually comes out

and it and and it gradually comes out um

um and and and in uh the earlier ones when

and and and in uh the earlier ones when you saw the star fighters going no no he

you saw the star fighters going no no he just went and got uh world war one

just went and got uh world war one biplane dogfight footage like

biplane dogfight footage like documentary and rotoscoped it and then

documentary and rotoscoped it and then replaced the uh the stuff in the film

replaced the uh the stuff in the film with with uh just uh 3d models and or

with with uh just uh 3d models and or even by hand animator stuff by keyframe

even by hand animator stuff by keyframe and but but use that as the motion

and but but use that as the motion capture system to get the dynamics right

capture system to get the dynamics right and the whole flow

and the whole flow and you're just watching world war one

and you're just watching world war one dogfights when you see those those

dogfights when you see those those things going on

things going on that's that's where it came from he

that's that's where it came from he sampled the world he didn't synthesize

sampled the world he didn't synthesize that

that and that's where the vocabulary became

and that's where the vocabulary became and you don't see it

and you don't see it and and

and and and

and and talking about materials in the pod

and talking about materials in the pod racing scenes when these guys are going

racing scenes when these guys are going around if you know this film

those pod racers none of when they crashed there was no animation there at

crashed there was no animation there at all they used our software and they used

all they used our software and they used the physics embedded in it so they

the physics embedded in it so they designed they spent a fortune

designed they spent a fortune designing the mechanicals and how the of

designing the mechanicals and how the of those devices they they stole some

those devices they they stole some really good card designers in the major

really good card designers in the major studios and when they crashed they just

studios and when they crashed they just crashed them into hard materials and

crashed them into hard materials and they'd let it physics go then they

they'd let it physics go then they tweaked the rules of physics to

tweaked the rules of physics to exaggerate because it's a movie

exaggerate because it's a movie but at the same time you have the most

but at the same time you have the most expensive 3d graphics and strongly ever

expensive 3d graphics and strongly ever been done up to that point

been done up to that point in the crowd scene

the synthesms because they weren't people

people were q-tips and paint

were q-tips and paint in the same frame

in the same frame and they realized that the directors

and they realized that the directors their job is to direct your eye not to

their job is to direct your eye not to direct the film

direct the film and

and and

and so

so talking about materials

talking about materials um james cameron would have like

um james cameron would have like full 3d models walking on the deck of

full 3d models walking on the deck of the dynamic where you got the shot from

the dynamic where you got the shot from way far away that you had to render

way far away that you had to render really expensive

really expensive q-tips for work

q-tips for work very very different approaches to how to

very very different approaches to how to use technology and understanding where

use technology and understanding where what the purposes are and what the costs

what the purposes are and what the costs are

are and

and and so

and so uh

uh my characterization of george lucas is

my characterization of george lucas is uh

uh he's the cheapest

he's the cheapest uh

uh he's cheapest uh person in hollywood

he's cheapest uh person in hollywood and now you doug this is where you say

and now you doug this is where you say well how cheap was he bill

well how cheap was he bill he's so cheap

he's so cheap george lucas is so cheap he'll spare no

george lucas is so cheap he'll spare no expense to save money

and in a sense that's what we need to do

that's what we need to do in terms of our interactions with

in terms of our interactions with management

management no we're not expensive

no we're not expensive if you invest up front

if you invest up front when the team the burn rate is low

and we can actually do our jobs better because we've got the right staffing and

because we've got the right staffing and the right

the right teams

teams we're not going to be late we're going

we're not going to be late we're going to be early on delivery

to be early on delivery and the product is going to be tested

and the product is going to be tested it's going to be loud reliable will

it's going to be loud reliable will never be 100

never be 100 in terms of successful

in terms of successful but you'll find out sooner and it'll

but you'll find out sooner and it'll cost you less

cost you less and the and the percentages would be far

and the and the percentages would be far higher and that we can demonstrate

higher and that we can demonstrate and all of this can be taught

and all of this can be taught it's there's no magic

and trying to you know and voltaire said it right uh

voltaire said it right uh perfect is the enemy of the good

perfect is the enemy of the good just be able to do good work and every

just be able to do good work and every once in a while to do going on work

once in a while to do going on work but good's got to be good enough because

but good's got to be good enough because there's a lot of bad stuff and here's

there's a lot of bad stuff and here's the one last reason about this where i

the one last reason about this where i got to go so let's get another meeting

got to go so let's get another meeting this is this

this is this whatever you think

whatever you think i can never get my product market or i

i can never get my product market or i can't be successful

can't be successful look at the crappy products that are out

look at the crappy products that are out there and what kind of bozos must have

there and what kind of bozos must have done them how could they somebody who

done them how could they somebody who you would be contempt yourself in terms

you would be contempt yourself in terms of the quality of work

of the quality of work instead of being critical to say

instead of being critical to say my god

my god if they could get that to market

if they could get that to market what's wrong with me that i can't get a

what's wrong with me that i can't get a really good idea to market what do they

really good idea to market what do they know that i don't know because they're

know that i don't know because they're not that stupid they just are bad

not that stupid they just are bad designers or to have a brand product

designers or to have a brand product and so

and so go find out look in the look at the

go find out look in the look at the failures don't just look at the

failures don't just look at the successes

successes because um almost every product that's a

because um almost every product that's a huge success

huge success has had an earlier version that was a

has had an earlier version that was a total failure

total failure oh by the way

oh by the way to emphasize that i'll just give you one

to emphasize that i'll just give you one example

the iphone is maybe the most successful computer

computer you know digital gadget in history

you know digital gadget in history from a financial perspective

from a financial perspective johnny if was the lead designer in that

do you know what his he was hired what product he was hired to do when he went

product he was hired to do when he went to apple

to apple the second generation of the newton one

the second generation of the newton one of the biggest disasters

of the biggest disasters and if you hold up a newton beside an

and if you hold up a newton beside an iphone you'll realize they're

iphone you'll realize they're essentially the same product

essentially the same product they're handheld touchscreen

they're handheld touchscreen pda devices

um and and um

and and um he

he uh was not a famous guy in those days he

uh was not a famous guy in those days he was a really good designer

was a really good designer but we only see the successes we don't

but we only see the successes we don't see where it came from we don't see the

see where it came from we don't see the connection

connection and by the way the iphone uh

and by the way the iphone uh came the that pda that

came the that pda that palm two sorry the

palm two sorry the second generation newton

second generation newton came out around the same time as ibm

came out around the same time as ibm came out with the simon smartphone

came out with the simon smartphone which is in 1963 was this was the first

which is in 1963 was this was the first phone which is a full smartphone with a

phone which is a full smartphone with a touchscreen with icons the pen and all

touchscreen with icons the pen and all the sort of stuff graphics and it was an

the sort of stuff graphics and it was an iphone if i described it to you you'd

iphone if i described it to you you'd say the you just described the iphone

say the you just described the iphone and that was

and that was um

um way

way earlier but it was around the same time

earlier but it was around the same time johnny i've said and he that he knew

johnny i've said and he that he knew that phone absolutely

that phone absolutely and he put that together with the newton

and he put that together with the newton stuff

stuff and with the changes in technology

and with the changes in technology figured the trajectories on the long

figured the trajectories on the long nose and said okay this is when these

nose and said okay this is when these things are going to mature this is where

things are going to mature this is where we're going to do it any convinced jobs

we're going to do it any convinced jobs job sign the vision to do it and give it

job sign the vision to do it and give it and they and and they want

and they and and they want and uh

and uh and the rest is history

and the rest is history but those

but those this is what i talk about the history

this is what i talk about the history look at the case studies just like you

look at the case studies just like you pretend you're in business school

pretend you're in business school pretend you're in law

pretend you're in law do the case studies

do the case studies and and and do and do the history

and and and do and do the history um i know you have to leave us but i

um i know you have to leave us but i have to make a final comment based on

have to make a final comment based on this this picture because um the the for

this this picture because um the the for those who don't know the national

those who don't know the national research council of canada did

research council of canada did extraordinary things about the time this

extraordinary things about the time this picture was taken not just in

picture was taken not just in music synthesizers but also in animation

music synthesizers but also in animation and it gave

and it gave canada for a little while really a leg

canada for a little while really a leg up in both of these areas and part of it

up in both of these areas and part of it was because it was so open so i bill was

was because it was so open so i bill was in a famous canadian band called

in a famous canadian band called lighthouse but i also had occasion to

lighthouse but i also had occasion to talk to paul hofford who was in the same

talk to paul hofford who was in the same band he told me

band he told me that he was driving through ottawa one

that he was driving through ottawa one day he went by a building called the

day he went by a building called the national research council he thought

national research council he thought that sounded interesting he he walked

that sounded interesting he he walked into the building he told them what he

into the building he told them what he did and they said that sounds

did and they said that sounds interesting would you like to be a

interesting would you like to be a research associate

research associate and one of the things as we move forward

and one of the things as we move forward with research and we talk about these

with research and we talk about these ideas and bringing them to fruition is

ideas and bringing them to fruition is the idea

the idea that we really need to open the doors

that we really need to open the doors to a lot of different points of view and

to a lot of different points of view and research canada sadly has closed it all

research canada sadly has closed it all down now you need a phd in and 16

down now you need a phd in and 16 million papers to get that research

million papers to get that research grant but it didn't used to be like that

grant but it didn't used to be like that and it actually gave us an incredible

and it actually gave us an incredible leg up in terms of innovation in two

leg up in terms of innovation in two critical areas yeah so can i get two two

critical areas yeah so can i get two two three really quick things and then we go

three really quick things and then we go so i'll give you a pointer on my webpage

so i'll give you a pointer on my webpage uh billbox.com and by the way

uh billbox.com and by the way shoemaker's child my webpage is so bad

shoemaker's child my webpage is so bad it's it's it's embarrassing

it's it's it's embarrassing um

um i don't know what to say about that i

i don't know what to say about that i should lose all credibility but the on

should lose all credibility but the on the papers page there's a fundamentally

the papers page there's a fundamentally called the folly research funding in

called the folly research funding in canada and it speaks to the national

canada and it speaks to the national research council so one um i knew

research council so one um i knew lighthouse i knew paul he's a really

lighthouse i knew paul he's a really close friend

close friend we've done tons of things together i

we've done tons of things together i wasn't in the band i was i had a

wasn't in the band i was i had a different group but but um

different group but but um but i've serving and recording sessions

but i've serving and recording sessions and stuff uh with the they're

and stuff uh with the they're and so and

and so and and

and but our show our stories are similar

but our show our stories are similar and to put

and to put on the ground i used to ride my

on the ground i used to ride my motorcycle up from queens as an

motorcycle up from queens as an undergraduate

undergraduate in the music you know composition and

in the music you know composition and theory program at queen's i'd ride up

theory program at queen's i'd ride up there

there and i got to use the computer

and i got to use the computer from

from six o'clock in the evening till six

six o'clock in the evening till six o'clock in the morning and then i go

o'clock in the morning and then i go back down to kingston

back down to kingston and and and sometimes i'd stay overnight

and and and sometimes i'd stay overnight and to do film soundtrack i'd never seen

and to do film soundtrack i'd never seen a computer before i had two hours of

a computer before i had two hours of instruction and then they gave me they

instruction and then they gave me they just gave me the run of the place and

just gave me the run of the place and that i could work on my own with only

that i could work on my own with only two hours to do the thing with this

two hours to do the thing with this computer graphics this is in 1971 that's

computer graphics this is in 1971 that's the same stuff that paul was working on

the same stuff that paul was working on that's and that's one place where we

that's and that's one place where we overlapped very much

overlapped very much but who was working in the mornings

but who was working in the mornings from six in the morning till six at

from six in the morning till six at night there was a guy named peter fuldis

night there was a guy named peter fuldis and he did a classic film from the nfb

and he did a classic film from the nfb if you go to the site is called hunger

if you go to the site is called hunger that is where and there's this too

that is where and there's this too nestor burt nick and marceli wein who

nestor burt nick and marceli wein who were there

were there um

um they built that animation system they

they built that animation system they won an academy award for it protect

won an academy award for it protect scientific and technical achievement um

scientific and technical achievement um and and and bill reeves who was the with

and and and bill reeves who was the with john lasseter did

john lasseter did got the kind of wars to toy story bill

got the kind of wars to toy story bill reeves got that's that

reeves got that's that his skills came out there

his skills came out there my sharon academy word for scientific

my sharon academy word for scientific for maya and stuff like that came um

for maya and stuff like that came um came out of that it comes out of that

came out of that it comes out of that experience but very clear pierre was

experience but very clear pierre was there doing that film

there doing that film using exactly the same computer the same

using exactly the same computer the same tools but on a different medium while i

tools but on a different medium while i was doing uh my music stuff and

was doing uh my music stuff and and it was spectacular

and it was spectacular and

and and the worst thing that happened

and the worst thing that happened is they started to change it to say you

is they started to change it to say you have to provide

have to provide um a business case and get business

um a business case and get business sponsorship and this notion of curiosity

sponsorship and this notion of curiosity driven research

driven research and the entire canadian

and the entire canadian placement in things like teledon digital

placement in things like teledon digital media video production um filmmaking all

media video production um filmmaking all of that

of that huge came with huge always a huge debt

huge came with huge always a huge debt to that

to that experience and on a couple universities

experience and on a couple universities that were doing uh open up to to do

that were doing uh open up to to do things that let people like me come in

things that let people like me come in and just take over the computer systems

and just take over the computer systems to to do music stuff

to to do music stuff and

and those doors got closed in the interest

those doors got closed in the interest of innovation and what they did is in

of innovation and what they did is in the process they styled the innovation

the process they styled the innovation and um and ended

and um and ended and and hence a lot of us have not been

and and hence a lot of us have not been able to have a career in canada uh we've

able to have a career in canada uh we've had to go elsewhere

had to go elsewhere to work meet our potential and um

to work meet our potential and um and it's

and it's these are things you've got to deal with

these are things you've got to deal with and um

and um but i think the tide is changing because

but i think the tide is changing because people are recognizing now that the

people are recognizing now that the importance of design and and if those

importance of design and and if those changes are happening there's places

changes are happening there's places like nrc that planted the seeds of some

like nrc that planted the seeds of some of us who are now senior enough that we

of us who are now senior enough that we can actually

can actually uh have a larger voice to try and bring

uh have a larger voice to try and bring about the change but that's also why i

about the change but that's also why i do stuff like this because i

do stuff like this because i it's really important that um

it's really important that um people uh

people uh as i say take the risk because it's way

as i say take the risk because it's way more dangerous to not take the risk and

more dangerous to not take the risk and go for it

go for it absolutely

absolutely thank you so much bill and thank you

thank you so much bill and thank you everybody for for staying with us today

everybody for for staying with us today um and

um and just a quick plug um it it correct me if

just a quick plug um it it correct me if i'm wrong but veronica on april 23rd

i'm wrong but veronica on april 23rd we'll be having the the mentorship mixer

we'll be having the the mentorship mixer so um stay tuned for that as well and

so um stay tuned for that as well and thank you very much everybody for

thank you very much everybody for participating and please please uh tell

participating and please please uh tell me about this the sketching workshop and

me about this the sketching workshop and and the stuff that was on just when i

and the stuff that was on just when i was arrived so we can have that offline

was arrived so we can have that offline but um down the road because i i'm not

but um down the road because i i'm not aware of that and i'm i'm just shocked

aware of that and i'm i'm just shocked that i there's such something like that

that i there's such something like that that i don't know about and uh

that i don't know about and uh all the reason why to reach out and

all the reason why to reach out and touch base with other people we're

touch base with other people we're learning something all the time

learning something all the time definitely i'll send you a kind of a

definitely i'll send you a kind of a summary of what we did and why it's why

summary of what we did and why it's why it's kind of interesting and important

it's kind of interesting and important and some links to the mural board uh all

and some links to the mural board uh all the mural board stuff is is absolutely

the mural board stuff is is absolutely open to people so we can get that out to

open to people so we can get that out to you yeah yeah i'm i'm

you yeah yeah i'm i'm you may know about service hub and stuff

you may know about service hub and stuff like that and and

like that and and and

and if you don't know my stuff on the

if you don't know my stuff on the portfolio wall which i think relates

portfolio wall which i think relates directly to that um

directly to that um i'll send you that those videos too okay

i'll send you that those videos too okay wonderful great we could add that into

wonderful great we could add that into the mirror board oh yeah

the mirror board oh yeah and i'd love to try it i i have let's

and i'd love to try it i i have let's put it this way i have

put it this way i have access to uh

access to uh you know we make 90

you know we make 90 you know 84-inch uh

you know 84-inch uh walmart

walmart and no no it's i

and no no it's i it's

it's especially if remote work if we can't

especially if remote work if we can't work on the same surface interactively

work on the same surface interactively with with seeing each other working

with with seeing each other working together and if you want to have a

together and if you want to have a separate conversation i fill you in if

separate conversation i fill you in if you want to talk about this stuff

you want to talk about this stuff um

um as in a separate conversation

as in a separate conversation [Music]

[Music] i i would love to learn about this

i i would love to learn about this and just just let me know whenever you

and just just let me know whenever you can okay oh absolutely um given that we

can okay oh absolutely um given that we you know we're a virtual university and

you know we're a virtual university and we are uh we are doing uh design studios

we are uh we are doing uh design studios almost every day of the week online with

almost every day of the week online with people around the world we would be this

people around the world we would be this would be a wonderful uh thing to talk

would be a wonderful uh thing to talk about and if you're doing that and you

about and if you're doing that and you have really good people um my interns

have really good people um my interns our interns are not virtual they're real

our interns are not virtual they're real and we're looking for ones that have

and we're looking for ones that have this kind of background

this kind of background oh really okay maybe we could also uh

oh really okay maybe we could also uh twist your arm or one of your or

twist your arm or one of your or somebody you work with to be part of the

somebody you work with to be part of the mentoring mixer as well because the

mentoring mixer as well because the students have really expressed an

students have really expressed an interest to be more cross-disciplinary

interest to be more cross-disciplinary it's possible so um

it's possible so um that's a conversation i'm open to

that's a conversation i'm open to great thank you very much okay okay well

great thank you very much okay okay well basically thanks for asking and see you

basically thanks for asking and see you everybody and thanks for your patience

everybody and thanks for your patience and uh i hope this has helped you just

and uh i hope this has helped you just wonderful thank you very much everybody

wonderful thank you very much everybody just go for it okay

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Sketching User Experiences with Bill Buxton

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