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DR JAMES DYSON interviewed for the film 'The Challenge of Rudolf Steiner' | cupolaproductions | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: DR JAMES DYSON interviewed for the film 'The Challenge of Rudolf Steiner'
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Core Theme
Rudolf Steiner's work offers a holistic understanding of human beings, integrating the spiritual and material realms, and suggesting that our inner spiritual development is intrinsically linked to the evolution of the universe.
what do you think asin's key insights in
terms of not just the understanding of
the child but of of the human being all
together I think he's given us given us
a foundation for penetrating the
connection of mind and body of psyche
and Soma of Consciousness and substance
in the sense of of you know metabolic
substances he he was schiner was a
monest he didn't split the world into
into two parts and say one part is
mental and another part is physical one
part is conscious and another part is
material for schiner matter and spirit
worked together and if there was if
there was any anything going on in in
the realm of cognition in the human
being at any rate is connected with a
metabolic process now that doesn't mean
that you can reduce Consciousness to the
materialistic picture of substance that
we have but um neither does it mean that
Consciousness is something that's
floating around
somewhere neither does it mean that
Consciousness is produced by the brain
in the way that say red blood cells are
produced by the bone marrow but all
these images that we struggle to with
which we struggle to understand
Consciousness end up being dualistic and
schiner insisted on on a on seeing the
same thing from two points of view and
his approach to medicine as well as
child development really bears that out
and G and enables us
to to see an awful lot of um things that
are going on
psychologically in terms of their physiological
physiological
correlates and movement I suppose is an
example of that it's a movement the way
we move is a bridge between the
metabolic processes that underly
movement and the gesture the
Consciousness the the drives the
awareness that that movement clearly
embodies you know is move does movement
come from from from Consciousness or
does Consciousness come through movement
it's neither the one nor the
other yeah what then is one to make
ofer's utterances about life after death
when we clearly don't have a physical body
body
I think for schiner the the life after
else I think I think it it was
acknowledging A continuing presence
within the same world that we are
otherwise living in but but at a
different level of
being um you know the the organs of the
Body for instance the liver the kidney
I don't see these organs
as merely instruments of physiological
function but I see them as as the homes
of Spiritual Beings of of living of
Living spirit and soul
beings we don't see them in the
ordinarily understood sense so I don't
see the spiritual world as something out
there but in the mysteries of the heart
which have never been better understood
than now for instance equally well of
the kidney and the liver but the heart
is perhaps a special organ in this
respect you know in in the mysteries of
how the heart functions of of the
coherence of the heart the fact that the
heart is now fully recognized as the
most sensitive sense organ in the body
not it's certainly not a crude pump
pumping the blood round it it it it
plays a unique role within the
circulatory system as a as an
enhancer of movement and and as an organ
of of coherence I would say but equally
well we can begin to be aware that the
heart is also an organ of our
Consciousness cardiac neurology card
neurology is is a subject in its own
right there a lot of work being done on
that in in America in the heart math
Institute for instance which is quite
remarkable how much is is Steiner's work
known about and respected in the medical
world generally I think I would have to
say nothing like as much as I would have
hoped or that I feel it
deserves on the other hand what I would
say is that
that
science not just the neurosciences but
science as a whole
with its increased sophistication
possibilities of you know highly complex
brain scans perfusion studies all the
manner of things that that nowadays are
possible is bringing forward
forward
evidence that those of us who have lived
and worked for many years with schiner
see as confirmation of what schiner has
said I I somehow feel it's it's up to us
to be able able to um often
interpret what is arising nowadays
through scientific research and and and
perhaps you know not not to be too
concerned whether whether people
recognized that schiner had anticipated
it in one way or another of
course in shiner's time science well
biological sciences were very primitive
I don't even know if there was a real
Concept in his day of the immune system
and and therefore he couldn't or even
the endocrine system so he couldn't
speak in in s in language that would
nowadays be regarded as scientific but
he was able to see into a field so for
instance he said that an endocrine land
what is that an endocrine land a
secretor land like the thyroid or the
adrenal gland is a kind of an extension
of the brain into the metabolism well
that's an imaginative picture what do
you make of it but when you appreciate
now that the brain is a a neuros
secretory organ and that there is a
connection between
neurotransmitters and hormones and that
the hormones secreted in the body also
have an influence back on on
neurological development so there's a
kind of conversation going on between
between metabolic processes through the
glands and the Brain you can immediately
see what it was that schiner was was getting
getting
at um but in a in a way there's no point
in then saying well Shiner should have
got a Nobel Prize for it but
nevertheless in many areas some of his
insights medically as well as
scientifically were clearly way ahead of
their time you know I could one could
give examples of that he mentioned he
mentioned lead poisoning for instance he
mentioned the relationship of of
fluoride to the teeth
um there were many many many connections
that he made which have since been been
substantiated but I think that that it's
our job to be able to use what he said
to make more of current
science do you feel that the word
spiritual is confusing even misleading
for people today it varies enormously I
think in many ways it's much less
confusing than it was when I started my
career 30 odd years ago um I think many
I think many people appreciate that by
Spirit one doesn't mean something
floating around supernaturally but one
is referring to the creative core of a
of a person the self in Psychology for
instance in psychospiritual or even
transpersonal psychology the terms self
and spirit are often used almost interchangeably
interchangeably
because the character and the nature of
self I think is is increasingly
recognized as having something quite um
unique and separate from the the its
biological basis of course in saying
that I'm in a way falling prey to my own
dualism but it's difficult to get around
so I don't I don't personally feel
constrained by the use of the word
Spirit In My Own in my own work I I find
that people
generally um know exactly what one
means of course you can't use the word
in in in a scientifically in a scientific
scientific
environment you have you have to find
other ways but that's not not always so
difficult I think what's more
problematic with schiner shiner's
vocabulary is that he did adop
words that that were originally derived
from a kind of Eastern theosophical
context so much of his medical writings
and not only also the educational do use
terms like astral body and etheric body
which which were the terms that he had
out of the necessity of his own
biography inherited and they were the
terms that people were familiar with who
were asking him the key questions and he
said for instance in his lectures to
Young doctors I wish we could reinvent
our vocabulary here but we can't so I
just you just have to appreciate what I
mean by what I
say what what is his picture of the
human being I mean in in language that
we could relate to now people talk about
Body Soul and
Spirit but
he's little more scientific than that in
a sense isn't he I'm sure he was the
first person to to speak about Body Soul
and Spirit in in a holistic way but he
also spoke about how how we are
supported by our by the physical
substance how we have a functional body
what would nowadays perhaps be called an ecological
ecological
body uh in which the the life is held
and a a body of Consciousness a body of sentient
sentient
awareness which we share with the
animals and then this unique capacity to
self-reflect to um
observe the very process the very
activity that is going on within oneself
at any given moment we can
disidentify from
our body feelings mind and who is doing the
disidentification that's the self and
that would be the the gateway to the
spirit and the bridge between spirit and
body and schiner also
um connected the these different
functional systems which interrelate
they're not they're not separate but
they they're only separate as far as our
thinking is concerned he he he related
them to the classical elements as
described in ancient Greece and pre in
other in other earlier cultures so the
the the actual mineral world the fluid
world the air reform the air the gasius
and the Fire or the warmth um schiner
reinstated not as mere descriptions of
states of matter but
as conditions through which
different systems in the human being
were able to connect to the physical so consciousness
consciousness
is very much sentience Consciousness
reactivity sense perception is very much
held within within the the gasius
element the air element and the the life
processes very much within the fluid body
body
um and and of course one can translate
this nowadays into uh into chemistry
because of course we know just how
important the dissolved gases are in the
body in relation to our
Consciousness oxygen carbon dioxide and
indeed also nitrogen you know our our
our soul life our Consciousness life is
intimately related with particularly the
gaseous elements within
us you see that for instance in in the way
way
that stress is handled in the body
nitrogenous products nitrous oxide
are involved in the maintenance of blood
pressure the whole connection of
something like blood high blood pressure
I mean hypertension with stress which is a
a
psychophysiological inter relationship
which I think everyone now recognizes
and which has so much to do with the
with the
kidney these connections schiner
appointed to long before the the
detailed physiology of the kidney in
relation to
rein Angiotensin nitrogen metabolism
carbonate secretion all these things
were were were were
known he he also you know he made
statements such as the much that goes by
the by way of heart disease today and
enlarged Hearts should be seen in terms
of kidney pathology well people would
stare at that at the time and not know
what he meant nowadays the relationship
between the the two is well established
and much of heart pathology is treated
via the
kidney I think what what this points to
is that is that Steiner's
insights were looking for physiological
verification he wanted this he always
said the spiritual researcher can show the
the
direction but the scientific researcher
has to corroborate this show that it
that it that it holds together and from
a certain point of view schiner was born
much too early because the science of
his day the instrumenty the the
investigations simply couldn't do what
he was needing on any level nowadays he
would have been
um working with the scientific
researchers in a much more active way
than was possible in in his time therefore
inevitably I think a split arose between
the the the general approach of the
anthroposophical doctor and the approach
that conventional medicine took and I
think that nowadays we're all really
working at at Cross referencing here we
we don't want there to be such a thing
as anthroposophical
medicine we want there to be medicine
but a great deal that schiner has said
and addressed can take hold of and and
make much more sense of medicine as it
is so yes we have to
maintain something of our own identity
because it's not possible for the two
streams to flow together instantaneously
but the direction we're working is one of
of
integration and certainly in the
practice of Medicine
nowadays there is no way that an
anthroposophical doctor can can isolate
himself from what's going on out there
in the
mainstream it's
impossible James what about um the
nature nurture debate I mean
that's kind of cliche almost that the
that these two
factors explain as it were where we are
now what what what is where does time is
in insights come in in that sense I mean
nature would nowadays be we would see
very much in terms of genetics I think
and nurture
environment I think one of the most
Illuminating fields of modern research
is is some
epigenetics which is epigenetic
regulation for instance it's
studying the relationship between the
effect of sense
perception and
via VIA the nervous system obviously how
influence which genes become active the
whole balance between the stimulator and
the inhibitor genes during the
developmental period of life you see
schiner made an outrageous statement in
this field which which we've been um
staring at for a long time um with I
think on the one hand realizing yes what
he's saying is is right in principle but
how on Earth can we justify it
scientifically the statement was that by
the time a child is seven he's overcome
the forces of in of his inheritance he
has he is a genetically different
individual from the person that was born
well of course DNA testing um doesn't
exactly confirm that fact however what
we are now aware of is the extent to
which our genetic inheritance is not
determining how that will necessarily
manifest in our life it will depend upon
how it is regulated particularly in the
early years of childhood and that's epigenetic
epigenetic regulation
regulation
and there is a particular window of
opport opportunity for this particularly
in the in the first three years but I
think it extends a little longer and it
also works between Generations
so how a child deals with the
environment now and what what comes
towards a child may not necessarily have
an immediate effect on the on on the
genetic expression of that child but may
so back to your question of Nature and
nurture they work
together the given the the the genetic
material that is given
is far more
malleable than our um traditional
science of genetics would have thought
in the past far more open and malleable
to sense perception and of course this
this emphasizes just how important early
the early years of childhood are in
terms of establishing um genetic
Pathways and in in terms of
salutogenesis in terms of health
promotion but in in in simpler terms am
I right in thinking then that we are not
totally determined uh by our genetic
inheritance on the one hand and the the
sort of environment in which we grow up
on the other other that there is another
factor which what exists already before
we're born I mean that's the implication
is yes that that's very much the
implication that what that what we meet
in our environment is not actually
arbitrary no more than what we meet in
our body is
arbitrary and the two are not as
disconnected as our dualistic
Consciousness might imagine
there is there is perhaps even a lock
and key relationship so how does one
understand that one can imagine a kind
of a kind of unifying system if you like
at a higher level that is linking and
body but okay and and I mean to to to
put it in to put it in dualistic
language the human the human self the
human Spirit pre-exists birth
and exists after
death the spirit is at work before birth
both in the building up of the body and
in the building up of the
environment both this is this is if you
like the story that schiner is offering
us perhaps it's a
parable we can't can't take it too
literally because the language in which
it's expressed is is Earthly language
and it's talking about something that
transcends the Earth but I think the the
essence of it is that we are not simply
arbitrarily placed here on this planet
the victim of our genetic makeup or for
that matter the victim of our
environment but
that there is there is a part of us
which is the architect of both and that
is the part that awakens in our
Consciousness as self we may not be
aware of it but an increasing number of
people nowadays often are you know
people do have not only near-death
experiences but experiences of of of
birth and pre-birth memories this is
well well known and well
established also you know all the work
that Yung did
around the theme of
coincidence you know the outer event
matching the inner
process this is confirmation of the fact
that we don't we don't simply live in a
cause and effect relationship to the
outside world but a an ecological one
that there is in fact a a
coherence between the two now we can
call that coherence the third factor
that transcends the nature and the
nurture but but works through
both I think that would be that would be
one attempt to to describe something
that is in in its Essence um
transcendental and
transpersonal I think Barfield would
have called it no etic I think and it's
this what you call third element then
that in a wall of school they are also
as it were addressing and and nurturing
with that be right if you hold an
awareness of this third element in terms
of an attitude in terms of a of an
approach to the child I think that that
your your possibility of of empathy
increases and I think that your your
capacity to be there to serve the
individual nature of each child is is
enhanced I I think it it it helps to
build faculty
rather than holding uh you know I mean
was it Aristotle who said education has
more to do with lighting fires than
filling buckets you know well if you're
talking about lighting a fire what are
you talking about fire warmth Spirit
self and the spirit in the child needs
to be seen the spirit needs to be heard seen
seen
recognized a child's neurology
neurology
mirrors being seen the the act of being
seen is vital for the inner stimulation
of the
child's bioc
pychology even even to the extent that
that there are neurons nowadays
identified called mirror neurons and I
think they have something to do with
their activity I think has something to
do with with autis or the autistic
Spectrum but in a sense all of us not
just children are hugely influenced by
how other people perceive
us I think we're not just seeing
outwardly but a sense of what we are or
might become
yes and and this is vital in ter in
terms in terms of an approach to
education because if you concentrate
solely on weable and measurable
outcomes then you already have a mold
fulfill you can hold that as part of
your your picture but there is another
half there is another part
there what's seeking to emerge what's
seeking to unfold because a human being
doesn't just replicate a species in the
way that an animal does a human being
has this unique capacity to unfold
something new and creative that will
make a difference in the world
fundamentally but that depends upon the
human being knowing that they
are valued that they are
important so a child centered education
vital that's very well
expressed should we tackle re Carnation
means I mean how does that play into
doctor well I certainly don't claim to
be able to
trace illness or happenings in this life
to former lives and neither do I see
that as my my task for yourself or for
your patient or both for both generally speaking
speaking
but the the way that you the way that you
you
carry if you see if you see a human life
as a segment of a much bigger
process then it enables you to
appreciate that the mission or the
Destiny or or the the the motivation
that lives in a child is
probably an activity of will that is
carried over from a former life that
there is something there of a mission
that was perhaps in a former life only
able to come to a very provisional um
fruition or expression and is now being
um given an opportunity to go
further and I I certainly hold the
picture that that
um we take
stock of what it is that we're here
for and that
we we then at the end of our life as is
indeed often described in you know
people who've had near-death experiences
meet the question what have you done
with your
life now no human life can never fulfill
its entire potential it can only be a
fragment a part and for me I find the
the idea that that is one fragment among
many very helpful but of course it's not
the it's not the the personality that
reincarnates it it's that invisible
intell that we're calling self that is
able to self-
observe it is it is a part of the
universal self it's a part of the universal
universal
spirit and I think that through
reincarnation and
Karma the spirit is evolving through human
beings you know a remarkable statement
schiner once made is that human beings
are the religion of the
Gods another way of putting that is is
the spirit that through the spirit in
the human being the spirit in the
universe is also evolving and that in
the course of evolution human beings are
in this sense um Co
co-participants in in in the
Divine and within every individual human
spark for me the picture of
reincarnation and Karma thoughts that
makes it more more coherent more more more
more
intelligible and one would then be able
to look
upon even
illnesses as as possibly a part of the
the resistance that we have to meet in
order to fulfill our potential because
resistance in life is vital you know
without without resistance psychology
talks about optimal
resistance if if a child isn't given
resistance nothing develops it's the
same in with muscles isn't it you know
we muscles need resistance in order to develop
develop
strength psychological muscles need
resistance too and sometimes in our
lives we have to we have to meet
resistance and pain in order that it
will eventually bring the best out of us and
and
that that is now now dayss in in in
medical in the medical field we call that
that
self-regulation the the the the ability
of a human being to to be aware of the
resistances of illness and to to take
account of them and assume assume
responsibility within them rather than
expecting Medical Science to just do it
for you because however much Medical
Science indeed can and does do it's the
self-regulating activity that is
probably the the health promoting
activity if you want to make a person
ill you disempower them you give them
you you put them in an environment in
which they their ability to feel that
they matter is worn down and it's the
worn down person who has no longer any sense
sense
of the ability to change the environment
that they're in that will die it's the
the spirit that remains
remains
um inwardly active and responsible under
adversity that survives the concentration
concentration
camp and therefore this is seen
increasingly um
Factor antonovsky work in America B
bears that
out James one of the sort of stumbling
blocks for for people they come across China
China
is how can somebody know these sort of
things with that sort of exactitude and
certainty it's even quite
off-putting what what would you say to
that well in the first instance I think
it's a matter of
it's a matter of living living with the
facts as you perceive them and coming to
terms with with the facts isn't
it what facts well
well
schiner shiner's work is so
all-encompassing so
transdisciplinary it spans so much that
we would assume that it's unrealistic
that any one human being could have
brought so much forward and indeed many
people have said if schiner had just
specialized on any one field he would have
have
become the Einstein the Freud or
whatever of that particular field given
that he he
was interdisciplinary multidisciplinary
he could never achieve that status
that's that's true but it is it is
remarkable that a human being is is able
to say so much from
a from the point of view of what he he
himself calls uh spiritual cognition spiritual
perception you can only live with it and
live with it um with your own
questioning questioning
mind and see to what extent it makes
sense and that's what he asks us to
do probably most people dismiss it
because it it it doesn't it doesn't
appear to easy digestion that's for sure
to to really
work to really get to grips with schiner
you have to you have to work hard very
hard over over over years over decades
decades and
gradually something of where he's coming
from conveys itself and a sense of a
sense of integrity and and confidence in
this person grows not because you're
believing in his authority but but
because there there is a a coherent
inter relationship between what he says
in one context and what he brings in
another and also because you will be
looking for substantiative evidence in
in the fields in which he's speaking and
also the proof of the pudding is in the
eating you know you know W of
education has its result
as does anthroposophic
medicine as does biodynamic farming
farming
um now
how if that if that fact increases one's
awe and respect for what the human
spirit is capable
of that can only be a good thing and
schiner had a particular capacity which
um and he he came at a particular moment
in evolution and culture you know at
that moment when the 19th century
materialism was in a way falling falling
away but when the the modern world of of
Science and Technology was beginning he
he stood at that critical point also at
the time when
psychoanalysis was was in its infancy
but you know it was already launched but
this this this this this amazing time at
the beginning of the 20th
century and maybe he could only it he
could only have lived at that time and
brought forward what he did in the way
that he did
then it's no answer to your question
it's just it's an attempt at a
response Steiner did of course
indicate that the these faculties that
he were was drawing on were potentially
in all of
us y I mean that's important isn't it
because it stops one putting him in some
sort of ultimately UNH helpful box well
schiner schiner of course said a very
great deal from his out of his own let's
let's say intuitive spiritually
intuitive faculties which perhaps nobody
since has been able to say in quite that
way but his his message was to
everybody the capacity to come to
spiritual insights is latent in every
single individual person and the the
path the most important thing is that
each and every one of us finds their own
access to that to that development and
it will be a different access point for different
different
people phenomenology of the natural
world cultiv activating the ability to
observe to truly observe
nature um as for instance Dennis kochek
is is exemplifying Craig holridge people
I think you've already spoken spoken to
um these are individuals who are
developing and to a degree have
developed in their field a kind of
reliable perception of phenomena that
could be termed
spiritual following in many cases in
most cases the the indications that
schiner gave and schiner um also gave
us simple but nevertheless quite arduous
exercises to do in in order to to
develop um intuitive insights even um
quite apart from from developing
anything vaguely resembling
Clairvoyance so taking a child the
perception of a child how they've spoken
to you what's lived on in your
perception of that child into the night in
in
sleep and then noticing what you wake up
with in the morning in relation to the
child can awaken uh a capacity of of
practical intuition which he suggested
teachers developed and indeed this uh
something very similar can can happen
with a you know with with a doctor or a
therapist um one doesn't one doesn't
have to achieve the stage
of Clairvoyant perception that schiner
himself obviously had done in order to
be a a spiritual researcher and in order
to take further what he's
said um and I think that
the particularly in the last 20 years
the amount of secondary literature
that's appeared from schiner
from people who've been influenced by
schinina but have done independent
impressive schiner expressed in a verse
the the the the concept of the inter
relationship of the the macrocosm and
the human being and I if I remember
rightly it says um in the free human
being the whole universe is gathered
up so with the free resolve of your
heart take your own life in hand and you
will find the world
the spirit of the world will find
herself in you I think that was the
particular way he framed it in this in
verse one can't prove such a thing it
it's not a it's not a scientific
statement I don't think if by science
you mean you mean something that can be
Quantified but if the spirit of the
world if the Universal spirit that is
out there spiritual physical neither
matter nor Spirit but that which
underlies both if that spirit is
evolving in its own very
existence through human beings then it
follows from that that each human being
has to be an inner kind of has to have a
representative is is a drop of the ocean
has represents something of that
totality now you know schiner was often
very very crude and simple in the way
that he he said things you know when he
in his lectures to the Workman for
instance he said
well the hairs on our head are like the
grass on the
fields he made comparisons which from a
certain point of view seem seem very
simplistic but when you live into them
they're not necessarily
simplistic the stars in the sky
relate to the neurons in the brain why
not how many stars are there in the sky
has anybody tried to quantify it it's
it's probably an unquantifiable
question it's probably an unquantifiable
question how many interconnections
between neurons is it possible to have
quantifiable the these are imaginative
pictures which which if you take them
seriously can deepen your your
relationship to to who you are and how
you relate to the world and can overcome
alienation you know part of the problem
nowadays in depression is that the human
being feels powerless and alienated so
often from the
environment if we live with the picture
that what's out there in the universe
also lives in us and we can bring it to
an expression
in every every thought and every deed
then that can can give us a sense of our
own worth it can stimulate our
initiative it can bring out the best in
US whereas a you know a picture that
just shugs its shoulders at the whole
cynicism I think we have to distinguish
really between the what Shina gives as living
living
imaginations which an individual person
may fruitfully live with and if you like
facts that are in the literal sense true
um schiner works with both but we have
to know when he's doing the one and when
he's doing the other so this picture
that the human being is a microcosm of a
macrocosm um is is at least in the first instance
instance
an imagination to live with and to
explore it it's an Avenue into a
meditative approach to the
world schiner said for instance imagine
that our sense organs our eyes and our
ears are
like the source of a river in in the top
of a
mountain and then imagine that our
muscles and blood are like the salt
water of the sea
and imagine how the the water in the
springs is connected to the water in the
sea and
recycles and in the same way imagine how
what we take in through our sense
perceptions enters into our blood and
muscles and inspires our action and our
will and
then goes beyond us because our actions
that we put into the world are no longer
bound up with ourselves they then have
their own life and fate out there in the
world that's that's in a way like the
water returning to its source it's a cyclical
cyclical
picture now living living with pictures
like that
connects the scientificness of the fact
with with the feeling and it can
stimulate um
initiative and these pict es can can
live fruitfully not not not in a not in
the sense are they true or are they
untrue but what do they release and
unlock within the human
being they they
also depend very much on the way they
are taken up you know that the mood the
sole mood and this is where I think for
schiner the the the science Shin of the
scientist the artist and the religious
person flowed together they weren't
science art and religion were not Forin
of three different things the scientific
fact should engender a response in the
feeling and should invoke an an awesome
feeling in the will which is of more of
a religious character let's say a
respect and there is then a a kind of
cycle from the one through the one to the
other GIA Consciousness
Consciousness
theme an appreciation that the the
universe that we live in um nurtures us
and has the the quality and character of
the mother this is a
a an expression of the the picture that
we are we are children of the universe
that we're not just objects that have
evolved in an arbitrary way and that we
together last
question the film's called The Challenge
of Rin what what do you see is the
challenge schina challenged us to take
our own
thinking very very
seriously he challenged us to think Way
Beyond The Logical framework of what's
inside the box but to make connections
in our thinking which we could continually
continually test
test
the the challenge of schiner is to
uphold the freedom of the individual
human being and to awaken in each of us
a sense of our
responsibility for the not just for the
future of the planet physically but for
the for the evolution of this this
Matrix in which we find ourselves this
firmament as Shakespeare called it to
evoke a sense not just of
connectedness but of co-responsibility
and in that in the challenge of that
path we have to meet also
um limitations and our own potential for
evil we have to we have to meet in other
words our own
Freedom we can't just
replicate what what we've been told but
something has to be reborn in us because
we will it so because we think it
so I think that's perhaps the ultimate
Challenge to to to help to bring human
beings to the point where we can sit
around a table together and say our
collaboration is in the service of
of the universe as we know it we can
change we can we can make a
difference and he's given us a unique
set of tools to approach that if we can
if if we if we if we resonate with them
and and take them up you haven't use the word
God I I I don't I don't want to
postulate I don't want to postulate a
hypothetical god um but the the material
world of which we are part
part
is is in its Essence Divine substance I
mean that that that that schiner was
quite clear about
about
substance silica
calcium magnesium
carbon the these are the clothing of the
body of
God and God is that being through which
all these
substances find find their ultimate um
sublimation God created the
substances and they they've come to rest
just for a short while in order that
human beings can find their freedom in
relationship to them and I think at some
future point we will all go into a kind
of um process together again the world
that we know won't be here in this form
forever how can it be if it's if it's in
evolution you know the sun's life is
limited the Earth's life is limited but
does it all stop when the the outer
manifestation Falls
away this is this is the ultimate
existential question question for human
beings isn't it can you
disidentify from the manifestation and
still retain a connection to the sense
of being and I think for many people God
being the ground of our existence that
we through which we experience our own our
our
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