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The Man Who Proved Me Right with CEO Bob Chapman and the Barry-Wehmiller Team | A Bit of Optimism | Simon Sinek | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: The Man Who Proved Me Right with CEO Bob Chapman and the Barry-Wehmiller Team | A Bit of Optimism
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Summary
Core Theme
The core theme is the transformative power of "truly human leadership," which prioritizes empathy, trust, and relationships to drive both human well-being and business success, challenging the traditional view of business as solely a source of economic value.
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I wish leaders
took leadership as personally as you do.
They see it as a rank or position. They
see it as as power and authority, but
they don't take it as seriously as
raising a child. And you take taking
care of your people as seriously as
taking care of your children. You deeply
mean it. You deeply feel it. I know
people who turn it on and turn it off.
And you can turn it off. It's it's core
to who you are. I always say Simon you
can retire from a job but you cannot
retire from a calling. Yeah.
>> And when I look today as we talk the
issues we face in the world I see
business as a source of destruction
creating economic value but not human
value. And and I feel a profound sense
of responsibility change the way the
world sees its its responsibility to
people they have the privilege of
leading. I imagine a world in which the
vast majority of people wake up every
single morning inspired, feel safe
wherever they are, and end the day
fulfilled by the work that they do. When
most people hear me say this, they think
it's just the ramblings of a crazy
idealist. And I would actually agree
with them until I met Bob Chapman. When
I met Bob, he claimed that he'd actually
built a company that embodied what I
imagined. And to be honest, I didn't
believe him. Again, I'm a crazy idealist
and what I imagine isn't supposed to
exist in reality. It's supposed to be a
striving, which is why I wanted to go
see for myself. Bob has spent 50 years
leading a company called Barry
Waymiller. And what started as a humble
Midwestern manufacturing company is now
a 3.6 billion global powerhouse with
nearly 12,000 team members. And what
he's built is more than a successful
company. It's a model of what any
company could and should look like. His
approach is called truly human
leadership. And it's a simple idea.
Prioritize empathy, trust, and
relationships to drive performance.
These lessons work in any workplace and
any industry. And it proves that how we
treat people at work, how we care for
people at work can transform our
families, our communities, and indeed
the world around us. I encouraged Bob to
write it all down. And he did in his
book, Everybody Matters, which I am also
proudly the publisher. And with a new
edition recently released, Bob and I
decided to take a trip back to the
factory where he first showed me what he
built. And we did something a little
different in this episode. Yes, I sit
down with my dear friend and yes, there
are tears of inspiration. And this time,
you will also hear from some of the
people whose lives have been touched by
Bob's leadership style. They are proof
that I can no longer be called a crazy
idealist if what I imagine exists in reality.
reality.
This episode is brought to you by
Porsche and their new Macan. And when
they reached out to us and asked if I
would be comfortable to talk about the
new Porsche Macan, well, let's just say
I already owned one. That's actually my
car. So, the simple answer was yes. I am
someone who has lived my entire life
around big cities. So visiting Phillips,
Wisconsin feels like I'm stepping into
some alternative universe, into a place
where life feels simpler, where spending
time outdoors is better than any video
game. And spending time with family and
friends is the most valuable commodity
there is. And work, at least for those
who work at BW Paper Systems, is now one
of the essential parts of the good life.
I remembered the first time I entered
the plant. I was struck by the sheer
size of the place, the high ceilings. It
was like a huge indoor concrete football
field lined with dozens of surprisingly
clean machines. Their movements and
their hums giving the place life. This
is now my fifth time visiting and every
single time I've come back here, I'm
struck by how clean and organized and
magical it all feels. There's no chaos.
Everything is in its place. Everyone
knows their role. It's a sight to
behold. And like an orchestra, there's a
symphony being played by this group of
people with a common cause. But that
doesn't mean that there's a lack of fun.
>> I'm a mover and a groover. Like I don't
have it blaring right now, but when you
none of you are here, my radio is blaring.
blaring.
>> That's Amber Mayor. She's responsible
for the small parts getting to where
they need to be all over the factory.
>> Sometimes there's parts all over this
place and I have to play like you can't
find them. Well, guess what?
>> Here I am, Inspector Gadget, like
running around. So, I do put a lot of
steps in a day.
>> You like see your count? I'm
>> How many How many have you done? How
long What time did you Did you get
>> 6:00? So, I'm at 9,34.
>> You did 9,000 steps in 3 hours.
>> Amber got a job here 3 years ago. Her
husband decided to join her 6 months later.
later.
>> What did you do prior?
>> I bartended/waitress
almost 20 years at Club and Eery right
across the street here. So, I actually
dealt with a lot of these employees and
stuff over there. So, a lot of people
knew me already before I even came here.
So, when it came to me applying here,
they're like, "We want her. We know what
kind of worker she is."
>> And what did you know about them just
from seeing them come through the bar
and the restaurant? How did they talk
about work? Because, you know, usually
people come to a bar.
>> It's a great place to work. It's not like
like
>> they order a double and they they whine
and complain about their bosses.
>> They very rarely had to order because I
already knew what they wanted the minute
they sat down. Like a lot of these
people, like I said, I waited on them a
lot. But um they said that working for
this place was unlike any other factory
or facility that you'd ever worked for
before. Mind you, back in the day, I did
work for another factory. And this place
is so much more laidback and easygoing
than any place like that. Like they're
more focused on the people and like try
to help us and take care of us and make
sure that we are all happy here. How do
you feel when you come to work compared
to the way you would feel in other jobs
when you would go to work?
>> Well, I don't even use an alarm to be
honest with you. I just wake up and get
going before I need an alarm to wake up.
So, and I do not mind, you know, if my
leader were to ask me, can you stay? Or
even this last weekend, I ended up
getting messages and phone calls from
the weekend shift and I'm like, do you
guys need me to come in? I'll come in.
I'll help you out. Like,
>> but weren't you always like that?
Weren't you like that in other jobs?
Isn't that your personality? >> No.
>> No.
>> Say more.
>> It it gets to a point, you know, where
people take advantage of you. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> If you do too much, it's like they know
and they know they can push you and push
you and push you and take more and they
don't respect you anymore. It's like,
well, she did it this one time, so she's
going to continue to do it and we're
going to put more on her plate just
because we know she can handle it. No,
no, no, no. That's not how it works.
Like, make me happy. Like, I'm helping
you. What can you do to help me? You
know, is my mentality. Like,
>> but they do ask you to sometimes come in
on the weekend or go stay longer on your
shift. And yet, >> but
>> but
>> how is that different?
>> For some reason, I feel like it's my
family, it's my team, and I'm helping
them out because I know that if I ask
for something,
>> they're going to return the favor, you
know? I mean, you can't get that everywhere.
Bob Chapman was not always such a
peoplecentric leader. Trained as an
accountant, he used to run his business
well like an accountant. People were
line items. They were an expense to be
managed. But something happened.
Something Bob did not expect. Many years
ago, Bob and his wife were attending a
wedding. They sat in the pews and
watched the ceremony play out in front
of them. The father of the bride walks
his daughter down the aisle and
ceremonially gives her away. Then he
turns and sits down in his seat. Bob
couldn't get this image out of his head.
A father who would give his life for his
precious child was giving her away to
another man with the hope that he will
take care of her with the same love that
he did for so many years. That's when
the epiphany struck. every single person
who works in Bob's company is someone's
son or someone's daughter. That every
single employee is someone's precious
child who's now in Bob's care. It was
this realization that set Bob on a
journey that he did not expect to be on.
One that would completely change the way
I'm so curious like when when you meet
people and they say to you sort of Bob
what have you built? What's your
business? How do you talk about this?
Well, as you know, my first half of my
career was very traditional about
management, financial results, and
growth. And through the series of
revelations I went through were the lens
through which I saw people because I saw
them as machinists, labor, union
members, office people, people working
on the floor, all the traditional ways
we talk about. And the lens was reversed
and I saw them as somebody's precious
child that's been placed in my care.
Everything changed for me. So the lens
through which you see people affects the
way you treat people. If you because I
was raised that you need people to
achieve results and when you don't need
them anymore you let them go. So the
lens was clearly seen if you see people
as somebody's precious child it
profoundly affects your leadership
style. My major responsibility to people
are in company is to give them a
grounded sense of hope for the future.
They can trust in my care. I take that
incredibly profoundly seriously.
>> I know you and I have talked about this
about sort of how being a parent and
being a leader are very similar. You
talk about how being a parent, this
child is brought into your life and
you're responsible for its growth and
its upbringing. And in business, a
person is brought into your office and
you're responsible for their growth and
their upbringing. I appreciate that the
lens for you changed where you stopped
seeing people as line items and you know
mechanisms for your success but rather
that you are now responsible for their
growth, their success, their happiness,
their well-being. How did you make the
conversion to be this heartfelt leader
rather than just all head and all
numbers? It was a journey. When I
realized that day at the wedding that
the all 12,000 of our team members
around the world are not functions for
my success. there's somebody's precious
child who I have in my care for 40 hours
a week. It changed everything. And and a
young man asked me about that time, what
is your greatest fear, Bob? Now, you
know me, I'm an internal optimist. And I
had to stop and think and I said my
greatest fear is that we were blessed
with a message of the way the world was
intended to be where people would
genuinely care for each other and would
be dependent upon me and I would leave
this company this earth and what I had
built would fall apart because I've seen
that happen in churches and companies
all over the world. So my greatest fear
is that this blessing we've been given
would not live beyond my time. So we
began I got had an incredible team
around me called the empowerment team
you know some of those members and I
said how do great religions survive all
the time you know this is how we evolve
from great religions and we said they
articulate their beliefs which we have
in the guiding principle of leadership
and then they have disciples who carry
this message forward beyond the founder
because it's not Bob we all believe this
is the way we should treat each other so
we said how are we going to do that we
can't send people back to iversities to
learn to be truly human leaders. So this
eclectic team for the whiteboard said,
"Well, we're going to create our own
university." And they came up with three
powerful classes.
Empathetic listening, which is the most
powerful of all human skills.
Recognition and celebration. How do you
let people know they matter in
thoughtful, appropriate ways? And then
culture of service, serving from it's
all about me to actually care about you.
>> And I know all of the classes that you
teach are uh voluntary. people choose to
go through it and if they don't want to
go through it then that's fine. Um uh
but people can see the impact that it
has on their co-workers, their their
colleagues and friends when they do go
through these classes which is why I
know that there's a there's a good long
waiting list for people to get into your
classes. What is what are the core ideas
that you teach in the empathetic
listening class for example? Well, first
of all, one of the things I've learned
in teaching this is our team member
David Vinol who came up with the idea
because when when somebody said if we're
going to start a university, we need to
teach people to listen. I thought why
would we need to teach adults to listen?
We all know how to listen. Okay, that is
the biggest revolution we realize that
we don't know how to listen. Okay, we
we're taught to speak and we're taught
to debate, but we're not taught to
listen. Okay. The issues we the divide
we have in this country in the world is
because we have a lot of people I'm
right and you're wrong. Okay. That's the
world we see it in politics between our
countries. And so this team came up with
this idea that we would teach empathetic
listening. Okay, which is is the most
foundational human skill that you can
possibly have because it you can you
validate the worth of others when you
listen to them without judge. Not
listening to debate, not listening to
respond or judge, simply listening to
validate the other person. It still
amazes me, Simon, we were simply trying
to change managers into leaders into
disciples, people who would carry this
forward well beyond my time. 95% of the
feedback, 95% was how it affected their
marriage and their relationship with
their children. And I thought, what?
Because I mean, I was never told never.
This class was built to help people
function better at work. Right. That
they would that they would communicate
better at work. Right. Right.
>> I thought when you hire somebody, the
pay and the benefits was the exchange
for the present. As long as you needed
them, you would pay them. But when you
didn't need them, you'd let them go. And
this changed everything because what we
what we realize is what people want to
know is that they matter. Okay? We have
a very prosperous economy but we do not
have a a healthy economy because we have
the depression anxiety because people
don't feel valued they feel used. So
this listening class still amazes me
20ome years later that we've taught all
over the world. This is not an American
issue. This is a global issue. When you
teach people to listen
they tell you the stories of how to
improve their marriage and their
relationship with the kids. So when we
say what's wrong with kids today, I said
where did they come from? It came from
families where parents probably came
home from a job where they don't feel
valued. They don't pro because of that
stress and anxiety whatever and concern
about their future probably don't treat
their spouse as well as possible. And
what do our kids see? They see the
behavior of our parents who don't know
how to care for each other. They may be
in love but they don't know how to
listen to each other. And so it was it
was unbelievable the feedback we got. If
if your listeners could have heard the
thousands of people I've heard around
the world who have taken this class from
India to Serbia to China, it's a
universal truth. The healing power of
Randall Fleming started on this floor 36
years ago. At the time, a young welder
who self-identified
as Darth Vader. Hey, Randall.
>> Hello, Simon.
>> Good to see you.
>> Good to see you, sir.
>> When Barry Waymiller acquired the
company 25 years ago, Randall was not
exactly thrilled. Just like I didn't
believe Bob when I first met him, a lot
of his new employees, like Randall,
didn't believe him either. So, Barry Way
Miller buys the company.
>> Yes. Uh, and they make all kinds of
promises and statements and you hear you
see this
Bob Chap and this weird larger than-l
life character come in. What was it that
he was saying that you sort of rolled
your eyes?
>> Oh man, just about everything. And
>> before the acquisition, there were no
leadership classes and definitely no
touchyfeilly culture. This was a
traditional American manufacturing
plant. Run with a command and control
culture. You clocked in, did your job,
kept your head down, didn't ask
questions, didn't make waves, did your
work, and then clocked out. That was the
culture. But that all changed when Bob
and his team took over.
>> We always had these, we called them
flavor of the month. You have all of
these different things that they
implement and nothing ever really comes
of it. You don't really see any results.
But this was a whole new company coming
in with all of these promises. But then
there was also some major changes that
were happening. And I was standoffish a
lot just because of some of the things
that were occurring business-wise.
Um but more so, you know, this promise
of a better place. It's like I just want
to do my job, you know, just don't
promise me anything. Just leave me
alone. I don't need a speech. I don't
need a company meeting. you know, I just
need to clock in, clock out, and Friday
I'll deposit my check. So, it was just
foreign. I didn't believe anything
because we never heard anything, you
know, that really ever meant anything
>> because you'd heard promises before of
this and that
>> and it was just talk. Maybe it was good
for a week.
>> Yeah. It would you do something, okay,
it's done and then six months later,
what whatever came of that?
>> So, you were cynical at all the
promises, which is totally fair because
you've heard it all before.
>> Yes. But then what happened?
>> Well, one individual came from Green
Bay. They made him what was called the
continuous improvement leader at the
time and he didn't know me um luckily.
And uh then there was another woman that
they was here and they I used to work in
the far end of the building and they
would come by and say hi to me and how's
it going and I would just ignore them.
Um cuz I didn't want to talk to anybody.
Just leave me alone. You know, I don't
like you. Get out of here. But they were
so persistent. I mean day after day
>> like they would say good morning regardless.
regardless. >> Ireardless.
>> Ireardless.
>> Yeah. And I was lucky enough that I had
I was able to surround my work area with
enough work that you literally had to
crawl over it to get in by me. Well, one
day the um Moren was her is her name
crawled over all the steel and walked
right up to me and hi Randall, how are
you doing today? And I was kind of
stunned, but it was a woman so I was
nice. I tried to be nice. But that was
kind of the start of, you know, I
started to hear things that, okay, maybe
this isn't just the flavor of the month.
Maybe this is real. There was a a a
course that I we they advertised. It was
called communication skills and uh 2003
I signed up for the course and um
>> that's was voluntary. Nobody was made to take.
take.
>> So what was the reason you decided to
take the course? What I was thinking in
my mind is you're either going to prove
me right or wrong.
>> What were you hoping to get out of the course?
course?
>> An answer because at that time I was
going through a personal change as well.
But I wanted an answer. Am I going to
stay here or not? In my mind, I had to
answer that question because, you know,
I saw it as this is the it's either the
time for me to leave or the time for me
to, you know, really get on board or
embrace what's going on here because I
was tired of
I don't want to say not knowing, but I I
was just tired of thinking about it. So
just prove me right or wrong so I can
make a decision and either move on or
I'm gonna I'm gonna try this.
>> And when you say move on because you're
like I can't take all this hokey stuff
like it's not for me. I just want to go
to a place that leaves me and lets me do
my work. Stop saying hi to me every
morning. So that was the
>> the first day in the class I was
listening to the you know what they were
talking about and I was asking a lot of
questions and not getting any answers.
And um one of the individuals that was
there, he was actually the guy that
trained the professors at the time, he
kind of pulled me aside and had a
conversation with me that he literally
said two words through the whole
conversation. So after I talked with him
for a little while, I was like, "Okay, I
think I'm learning something here. This
isn't communication skills. This is
self-reflection." Randall time is really
what that course was about. I came out
of the course with a whole different not
just view of Barry Waym Miller but a
view of how I was doing things how I
thought how I react. Um so if I hadn't
done that I don't know how it would have all
all
>> what were you like before now that you
have cl had clarity
>> looking back how would you have
described yourself you know that looking
at yourself from the outside in >> prior
>> prior
>> yeah pri now now now that you had the
clarity how would you describe
>> well to those I trusted I was probably
an okay guy but for those that I didn't
which was 90% of the rest um probably
wasn't a very good guy. You know, I
didn't like anybody. I I would uh I was
told by an engineer one time that I
turned him around at 50 ft just by
looking at him when he was coming to
talk to me. Um but for those that I
actually trusted, and there was a
handful in the building, >> sure,
>> sure,
>> I probably didn't come off that way, but
I was I liked coming off that way to the
rest of the world. Just leave me alone
>> because it kept people away. Keep it
away. I want to talk to you. Nothing you
can say. I have interest though.
>> As a result of that and the continue and
being open to what all the other stuff
that Barry Whim Miller the way it it it
treats people, the way it leads the
culture. Who are you now?
>> 180 degrees from that other guy is the
best I can put it because
>> um I really enjoy meeting people now. Um
I travel a lot so when I meet people I
usually get into a conversation about
something. Uh yeah just a completely
different person. And you know I look
back on it and I think about how I used
to react to things and think and it's
like it's hard for me to imagine that
now you know why was I like that but
that was just my whole life experience. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You know made me that guy. Looking back
now, you you were in the traditional
factory setting.
You were probably completely unable to
recognize the stress you were under. Can
you look back now and say my life was
like I felt stress compared to now? Is is
is
>> I I can answer that even better was
anger. I never had stress. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> No one could give me stress. I was just
mad at everything.
>> Just ma angry. I mean that affects your
home life.
>> Oh yeah. I got divorced because of it. I
mean, I didn't I wasn't a a bad husband,
but I wasn't a supportive, emotionally
available guy either. Um, and I look
back on that, but you know, it was at
that time in my life, you know,
everything that had led up to that, like
I say, I wasn't I didn't have stress. I
actually had a guy a a physician one
time look at me and go, "You're either
mad or angry. You don't have anything
else." And um I did later on after I
figured this out and was able to change
um I realized that yeah that I only had
one thing. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I was never happy about anything. I
didn't love anything. I just was mad all
the time.
>> I don't think people appreciate just how
poignant this is. You know, I think a
lot of leaders, a lot of companies will
label somebody as a mad person. That's
their personality.
And it I don't think it ever occurs to
anybody that it is work.
>> It is the work environment that somebody
was raised in that made them angry that
makes somebody like that that my job
makes me into the kind of person that
would lead to a divorce. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And simply by changing the work environment,
environment,
the person changes.
the person changes it. I I think
everybody thinks it's the the
personality they come to work and not
that the work makes the personality.
>> Yeah, a lot of it is. I mean, but it it
also feeds it, you know. So,
>> so if you have a a kernel of it, it'll
uh exaggerate it.
>> Yeah. To me, it's really it it spills
way over into my personal life. Um my my
kids and I are best friends. Um and it
wasn't like that. I was dad. They were
kids even when they were grown. But
that's, you know, the what I always call
the big win is, you know, they are you
the same at work as you are at home.
That was always the question I used to
hear is like, well, yeah, I'm the same
here as I am at home.
But luckily, I was able to turn it a
different way. Usually, when a company
wants to change its culture, it hires
some change management consultant.
There's lots of powerpoints given, and
there's an expectation that everyone
changes on the assigned day.
That's not what Bob did. He came in, he
shared his philosophy of leadership and
he simply invited people to join
whenever they wanted on their own time
frame. We've bifurcated the world,
right? It's like you have your home life
and you have your work life.
>> And we forget that it's not two
different worlds. It's one very
integrated world because the people who
are going to work go back home and vice
versa. And so if they go to a place of
work where they don't feel like their
work matters or they don't feel like
they matter, they don't feel like their
leaders care about them as human beings,
they only see them as means of
production. Um that stress that they
carry of course has to go somewhere and
it comes in the form of lack of sleep,
high blood pressure, it comes in the
you're grumpy, you're short-tempered and
that affects one's own health, but it
also affects the health of the family
unit. as you said, you know, you come
home stressed from work uh just cuz you
have a a shitty boss, you know, not a
toxic person, not somebody who's like
screaming and yelling, just doesn't make
you feel like you're mad or they just
care about your your productivity. That
stress comes out at home and that
affects kids grades, kids
self-confidence. And it's an amazing
concept. It's and it's so the logic is
so simple. logic is there which
>> it has to be simple because I I've it's
occurred to me it has to be simple
>> which is if you're teaching these people
how to listen empathetic listening so
that they can better communicate at work
those skills are the skills they're
going home not only do they feel better
at work they're taking those skills
they're raising their kids better it's
having a I mean that a good job and a
good place to work is good for my family
o occurs to nobody >> right
>> right
>> and and that and and that a company
would say come work for us it's good for
your family other than just the the
amount of money we're going to pay you
because that's usually how we measure if
it's good for your family. How much can
I provide?
>> In my education, undergraduate
accounting, MBA, Price Waterhouse, then
running a family business. I was never
taught, never told, never made aware
that the way I would run this company
would affect people's personal lives
other than the compensation and the
benefits. We think that is the exchange.
You give me your gifts, I'll pay you
fairly. But the most powerful thing we
do to people is validate their worth.
And the greatest source of happiness is
a good job doing meaningful work for the
people we enjoy. I get in front of CEOs
all over the world and I say you're all
worried about the cost of healthcare.
You are the problem. 74% of all
illnesses are chronic. The biggest cause
of chronic illness is stress and the
biggest cause of stress is work. Jeffrey
Feifer at Stanford wrote a book dying
for a paycheck. And he doesn't mean
anxious to get it. He estimates we're
killing 120,000 people a year die of
work related stress. Can you imagine if
we taught in our MBAs in our MBA classes
that that that how you lead will
directly affect someone's health and
that if you're a bad leader there's a
very short chain of logic that you're
actually killing somebody increase in
cortisol you know hurts the immune
system you know this slow steady drip of
of cortisol because of the stress at
work I mean to your point which is
people don't feel responsible for the
lives of the people in their span of
care because nobody's connected the dots
for Yeah. I mean, seriously, Simon, you
can't ask people to care. You have to
teach them how to care. You can't ask
people to speak Chinese. You have to
teach them how to speak. We found that
caring is a teachable skill. And the
good news is that with your
encouragement and support and the
evolution of this that we are working
with a number of major universities now
to transform business education to
create tomorrow's leaders who have the
skills and courage to care to bring
these human skills into with academic
skills. So when they leave our
educational system they're ready to live
in the beauty of diversity not the
conflict of diversity. They're ready to
be good stewards of the lives at home,
in their community, at work. But it's a
teachable skill and but we have always
felt academic skills are the key to
>> We interrupt this podcast with an ad
with authenticity. This episode is
sponsored by Porsche and their new
Macan, which is actually my car. I had
it before they called. It's actually my
car and I love it.
>> There there is an entire team in Germany
that just focuses on how material feels
or what what the cadence of the buttons
are or how they feel when you release
them or what sound they make. And I
think that's one thing that really
speaks to me with the brand is that it
comes all the way back to its roots of
engineers and designers within the
Porsche family. And when you have those
two, it really comes back to the senses.
>> My god, it works perfectly. It's the
other reason why I have to say I love
having a German car, which is everything
works always exactly as it was designed.
>> Yeah. Well said. Well said. And and I
will tell you that although the
stereotype is, well, it's just about
efficiency. It's just about perfection.
It's just about mechanical ability. The
people behind these product
developments, they are lifelong Porsche
owners, lifelong Porsche fans, racing
fans, and they dedicate years to the
smallest decisions and how this whole
car comes together. And that part is so
fun for me on the inside.
>> It says a lot when the people who are
making the car that you drive are fans
of the car you drive. There's passion
and love and you feel it.
>> I totally agree. Feel it.
There are some people who are cynical
that this is all fine and good and
hippie-dippy when the economy is great,
but when the economy dips, you know, you
got to you got to tighten the belt and
focus on the numbers. And you know, and
we see it all the time, even
well-intentioned companies, as soon as
you know something dips the numbers, the
first thing to suffer is the people.
They cut the recognition programs. They
cut the spending on the leadership
programs. They lay people off, right?
>> You know, it's it's the first thing we
do. So, it sounds like these things are
all nice to haves if if if if you're
thriving. What do you have to say to
those companies that that's the first
thing they cut people and programs when
when when struggle happens? I mean, what
does Barry Weey Miller do?
>> Well, it starts with we have a
constitution of our culture, the guiding
principle of leadership. Yeah. And the
overwhelming the vision is we measure
success by the way we touch the lives of
people. So we kind of have a
constitution that guides us like our
country does in terms of the the
responsibility of leadership. So if you
embrace that and you end up with an
economic situation, what do we do?
>> In 2008 when the housing market
collapsed, it sent the economy into a
financial crisis. Savings were wiped
out, companies collapsed, and lives were
shattered. As the economy went into full
recession, most companies thought that
they had no other option but to lay
people off in order to survive. BW was
also hit hard by the recession. But Bob
Our orders dropped by 30%. And I was
taught, well, you know, what you got to
do is you got to let people go because,
you know, that's what just what you do.
It's not personal. It's just what we do. We
We
>> I once, as you know, in the Air Force
asked some of the generals, how do you
teach these young men and women to kill?
They said, "We don't. We teach them to
take out targets that made bad
decisions." They try to dehumanize
the hurt they're going to infect and
dropping bombs. We do that in business.
We say, "Well, we had we rightsize the
company. You know, we organized the
company. We gave the shareholders what
they want. We dehumanized reduce headcount.
headcount.
>> Yeah. Yeah. We we dehumanize the impact.
Psychological studies show that when
people are let go, I walk up to you and
say, "Sorry, I know you just bought a
house. I know we just, but I'm going to
have to let you go because we got to
make the numbers work." It is a major
failure of stewardship because I tell
our people around the world, my primary
responsibility as a leader of this
company is to have a business model that
you feel safe. Okay? that you can raise
a family, you can have a home. Layoffs
are a broken part of our society. It
means your business model failed. You
let people down. Okay.
>> Okay. I got to go deeper in that. You
see, if you embrace layoffs, it means
your business model failed.
>> Most major
uh public companies and unfortunately a
lot of private companies, but most major
public companies have fully embraced
>> layoffs as an as a regular mechanism to
balance the books. Have their business
models failed?
>> Yes. Well, their leadership failed.
Remember, very profitable companies.
Jack Welch taught us years ago, you can
always probably let 5% of your people go
and you'll actually do better, not just
to reduce cost, but you know, it's good
to kind of take the low performers out.
So I was taught from very early age
layoffs are a positive thing you do for
a company because you improve
profitability and investment advisors
will come to your company and say you
want to improve your your image in the market
market
lay off some people and and say we're
going to we're going to make more money
and it so part of it is the investing
public rewards companies that do this.
Their share price goes up when they lay
off people. To me, it should go down
because they I mean, I guarantee you
when a board considers a public company
or private company considers a layoff
where you're going to hurt people, okay?
You're going to hurt people. They don't
talk about consequence of those people.
It's just it's just so they'll find
another job. How many weeks should we
pay them for? I've never heard ever in
my 50-year career ever heard a human way
of talking about layoffs, downsides, and
rise. But we're taught just one of the
things you do. It's not fun. It's not
pleasant. So my responsibility to our
people is to say my main responsibility
is to make sure you're safe in my care
where we can create economic and human
value in harmony. And when people feel
safe, they will share greater gifts with
you. You will attract greater talent.
There's no downside. Again, some people
think it's just about being nice. Okay?
It's much more profound like parenting
is being nice. Parenting is not being
nice and being a good steward of the
child in your care. leadership is
identical and part of it is having a
safe business model where they can raise
a family, they can count on you and put
their trust in you and have a career
with you. That is a foundational
responsibility and I've never heard that
said before.
>> I think a lot of leaders forget about
the ripples, right? Which is they
understand that, you know, even though
they don't talk about it or think about
it, the the impact it has on people's
lives when they get laid off, they also
forget about the people who didn't lose
their jobs but they watch their friends
get laid off. you know, now, you know,
now fear is injected into the system. Am
I next? You know, and one of the
craziest things I've seen is companies
announce, "We're going to lay off 20,000
people. We're going to do a thousand a
week." Yeah. And you're just like, how
on earth do you think that risk-taking
and entrepreneurship and sticking your
neck out for the greater good is going
to happen? People are going to retreat.
They're going to keep their heads down
because the unbelievable fear that that
I'm next. Not to mention the fact that
it sucks to see your friends get laid
off, you know, for no fault of their
own. It wasn't a meritocracy. Uh, and
you said boards aren't talking about the
impact on the lives of the people they
lay off. And they're also not talking
about how it'll affect the culture for
many, many months uh beyond, if not years.
years.
>> You know, Simon, some people say to me,
how do you justify this investment, this
cost of caring for your people, your
university, your classes?
And I said, I look at him, I say, I
don't need to justify caring. How do you
justify not caring? Okay, because people
really struggle going from using people
to care about people because, you know,
it's it's really it's a major bridge to
cross for most people. But I say
>> I, you know, nobody has to justify
safety. In other words, safety glasses,
hard to shoes, safety. No, no company.
Why? because we have workman's
compensation insurance and we want to
manage the cost of it. So it's a cost.
Okay. So I would say to you we don't
have to justify safety. Why do we have
to justify caring? Because this caring
is the safety of your soul. I don't need
to justify this because you know our
company we've had a 25 year growth in
our share price like 12% compounded for
25 years. So we're trying to prove
>> 12% compounded growth for 20 years in
our share price. Okay. Okay. And your
share price
>> because we have a very technical way of
creating share price that emulates the
market. And so I'd say to you, we have
exceeded almost everybody, you know, for
a long period of time. We take a
long-term view, but we again,
>> so anybody cynical who says no, but
performance, performance, performance.
Okay, fine. What you're demonstrating is
that your uh leadership strategy
outperforms the market. So, if you just
look at the statistics that you've heard
me say that 88% of all people feel they
work for an organization that doesn't
care about them. And if you hear the
statistics, three out of four people are
disengaged in what they're doing. When
you look at the 12,5,200
people work for you and you know these
statistics say that they're doing what
they need to do to keep their job.
They're not giving you their gifts and
you're sending them home damaged because
you were not good stewards of that life.
And that's why I say business could be
the most profound source of good in the
world if we simply knew how to care for
the people. We have a society right now
based on money, power, and position.
Doesn't matter how you get it as long as
you get it legally because then you can
write a check to charity and they'll
have a a banquet to celebrate your
goodness. They won't ask you how you got
your money. They'll celebrate you. And I
say to CEOs around the world, the
greatest act of charity is not the
checks you write. The greatest act of
charity is how you treat the people you
have the privilege of leading.
>> I have CEOs on here uh now and then and
honestly um in general CEOs are the
worst guests uh because it's hard to
have candid conversations with them.
They're very very media trained. They
come in with their talking points. You
know, it doesn't matter what I ask. They
know how to get their point across.
They're going to tell me about their
success. They're going to tell me about
their product. They're going to tell me
about the quality. I mean, I'm sitting
here in one of your factories and not
once have we talked about your product,
what this factory makes, the quality.
Not once have we talked about your
product. And this is completely opposite
than almost every other CEO I talked to.
>> Well, Simon, again, it was a couple
years ago that university organizational
development professors interviewed me
for an hour and a half, normal
interview. At the end of hour and a
half, they said, "We have never talked
to a CEO that never talked about your
product." And I sat back and I said,
"We've been talking about our product
for the last hour and a half. It's our
people." Okay? I'm not going to go to my
grave proud of the machinery we built
because we build great machinery. I'm
going to go to my grave proud of the
For Bob, it always comes back to the
people and the trust he places in those
who give him at least 40 hours a week of
their lives.
>> And there's one story I've been telling
for years about two of those lives,
Jared Nelson and Lance Johnson.
>> It's a story of a big company trusting
someone with a high school education to
spend hundreds of thousands of dollars
to buy a new machine.
>> So, I got to tell you what a treat it is
for me. I mean, we met briefly, you
know, but I've never actually had the
chance to talk to you in depth. I heard
your story and I have been telling your
story from the stage for for literally
years. So, I'm going to tell it. Tell me
if I get the facts right. Okay? Because
this is how I've been telling it,
>> which is bunch of years ago, Barry Way
Miller, where we are, um, one of the
machines is getting old and needs to be
replaced. Traditionally, when a company
needs to replace a machine, somebody in
procurement puts together a budget and
goes and buys a machine in the open
market. That's traditionally how it's
done. Some guy in a suit goes and buys a machine.
machine.
>> But Barry Way Miller did it differently.
They came to the two guys who work on
the machine, which was you two. You're
not accountants.
You're not in procurement. You don't
have any advanced degrees in how to do
this stuff. you just work on the
machine. And they said to you, "We've
got $750,000 budget. Go buy a machine."
And you went out into the marketplace.
You looked at new machines. You looked
at used machines. And where these people
who sell machines are used to people
standing there in a suit and clipboard
talking about the machine. You guys show
up and you're climbing inside the machines.
machines.
>> You end up buying a brand new machine.
You spend $500,000.
The company saved $250,000 and that
machine will never break because it's
your machine. That's the story I've been telling.
telling.
>> Yep. It's really close. Really close.
>> What did I get wrong? So Derek was an
operator that we had. Jared was another
operator. when I had the opportunity to,
you know, given uh given to me to go
purchase a machine, I knew right away
that to get buyin from the operators was
probably going to be the most important
thing on my side as a leader in that
area. So, I went to Jared and Derek and
I basically said, "Guys, this is what we
got to play with as far as a cash
amount. I don't know what we should get.
You guys are the experts on this
matter." So, I I basically used a lot of
responsible freedom for these guys. And
I sort of went, "Well, we'll see how
this goes." They came to work the next
morning and they had advertisement,
flyers, email clippings, everything sent
to me to to to review. And at that
point, I sort of went, you know what,
maybe this won't be as hard as what it
would sound because, you know, in my
life, obviously growing up and raising a
family, you can buy a car, you buy a
house, capital Equipment, like you said,
that's really not anything that would
have been in my realm of I'm going to do
this someday. So, I got Jared and
Dererick involved and they were both uh
great, you know, to work with on this process.
process.
um these were the two that were going to
make or break this product and getting
the buy in with with them guys and
knowing that they didn't want to, you
know, fail. That was that was a success. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And going back, Derek and I I worked
second shift, Derrick worked first
shifts, you know, so we'd take turns.
He'd go look for stuff during the day
and we'd figure out what we wanted, what
kind of machine we needed, you know,
what we all wanted in that machine. And
then we'd, you know, meet up at the end
of the shift on first shift and we talk
it over and we went from there. and we
did pretty good and we had a lot of
insight from guys that we worked with in
the past, field technicians and stuff
like that. So, they kind of drove us,
you know, in the right direction of what
we wanted and what kind of machine we
needed for capabilities and stuff like
that. So,
>> this is an even better story than I've
been telling because you were assigned
to buy the machine. Y
>> and you went and said, I need help. >> I
>> I
>> you said you know this better than I do.
And so, it's it's not just a story of
giving responsibility. I get to talk to
the person who said who admits >> y
>> y
>> I probably shouldn't make this decision.
Most people don't want to admit that in
a corporate environment for fear that
it's going to make them look bad or hurt
their promotability. But you say I'm
>> not the best qualified person to make
this decision. The best qualified people
to make this decision are the people who
work on the machine
>> every single day.
>> And here you're given threequarters of a
million dollars,
>> right? And I think most companies
wouldn't trust uh and I'll use
traditional language. I know that's not
how we talk here, but a couple of guys
who work on a factory floor.
>> That's exactly it.
>> You know, there's threequarters of a
million dollars go because there's this
ridiculous stupid mentality
>> that somehow you're going to waste the
money and they're going to save the
money when the reality is is you know
what things cost. You know the value.
How many years ago was that when you
bought that machine? I mean, you were a
kid back then.
>> Yeah. 20 some years old in my early 20s, right?
right?
>> Um, we believe it was in 2013 we
purchased that machine.
>> So, that machine was Let's do math real
quickly. So, 2013, 23. So, 12 years ago, >> correct?
>> correct?
>> Right. So, that machine is 12 years old.
How's it doing?
>> It's fine.
>> It's operational and doing everything we
needed to do. And and I think that was
one thing that we were told we need to
be able to produce parts here in
Phillips, Wisconsin. And you know what
would you guys recommend?
>> Had you worked at different companies
before Barry Wayey Miller?
>> Uh when I was in high school. So right
out of high school here straight out of
high school.
>> I worked at a company called Phips
Plating over across the road and then I
came here when I was 19 20 years old.
>> 1920 years old. Amazing. So your only experience
experience
>> of what work is like.
>> It's here.
>> Is here. Y
>> you don't realize how good it is,
>> right? But I do.
>> How do you know?
>> I just know. You know, my brother works
for a couple of companies and I've you
hear what he has to say about work every
day and you come here and it's it's a
different story.
>> How does he describe work?
>> Just a punch click, you know, a time
clock, you know, number on the wall and
go home, go to work, go home, go to
work. So,
>> rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Uh, is he happy?
>> Oh, is >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. He gets by, but
>> he's not happy going to work every day,
you know.
>> Yeah. Had you had had you worked
somewhere else before here?
>> I had part-time jobs before I started
here, but I actually started here five
days out of high school
>> also. So, both of you straight out of
high school. Do you know how do you know
that it's good?
>> This is your own experience only experience.
experience.
>> I know it was good. My dad actually was
a long tenure and team member here. He
had over 25 years. And when I got out of
high school, 18 years old, you know what
you want to do the rest of your life?
Not so much, right? I figured this would
be a good starting point. time went to
school for fabrication, worked here
part-time, and you know, once again, I
wanted to move on and possibly go into
engineering, but I haven't had a reason
to leave yet. And the amount of
opportunities that we've been given here
in Phillips, it doesn't feel like it's
been 30 years because I've learned so
many different parts of the business. I
work with a lot of great people. Um,
family oriented facility and uh I really
enjoy it. My uh my son works here now,
my wife works here, my daughter-in-law
works here. So, Philips is home.
>> So your dad knew what it was like
working here before Barry Waym Miller. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> How would he describe what it was? Like
would he tell you the stories of old?
How did he how did you hear about it? Or
maybe you saw it in your dad.
>> I got to see a little bit of it myself
because I started right before in '95.
So I had about five years of that
experience as well where you'd come to
work and you'd be walking in with a
friend, a co-orker, and that afternoon
you'd see him carrying his lunchbox or
tools out the door because he was no
longer a team member.
>> Just got fired.
>> Just, you know, layoffs, you know, just
just a lot of fluctuation with, you
know, who we had working and how much
our business model was slow or fast.
>> There was always change and that's one
thing. We have a lot of stability.
>> You've been here how many years now?
>> 17. So straight out of high school, been
here 17 years. That's unusual for any in
any job, you know, manufacturing or, you
know, sort of an office job for somebody
to remain in a job these days with any
company for 17 years. It's almost
unheard of. What's the reason you stay?
You know, there's opportunity. There's a
big world out there.
>> Well, with Phillips, I love living here.
Um, like him, I have four children. They
rely on me and I go to bed at night and
I know when I wake up in the morning,
I'm going to have a job to come to every
single day. Um, and not only that with
like um growth opportunity, I've done a
lot here. I've um started be seen back
by the laser. Um took a role here in L3
and then I went to CPD in HR and was our
safety leader here for four years and
now I'm in field service.
>> So you completely changed. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Is that unusual in manufacturing? You
know, if somebody starts on a factory
floor, you know, they die on the factory
floor. Is that is that a like what's a
normal manufacturing trajectory in America?
America?
>> I would say normal in America would be
that yes, you're stuck on the floor and
that's where you're going to stay.
>> You get small raises every year hopefully,
hopefully,
>> right? Field service.
>> Field service, which means
>> um where we send our field guys out in
the field to work. I'm actually um
running our PM programs. So we have
>> PM is
>> preventative maintenance.
>> Okay. So we have 116 contracts and we
sell those contracts to our customers
for our techs to come in and maintenance
their machines. So
>> what is your hope for American business
based on what you know based on what
you've seen possible? What's your dream
for American business?
I would like to see obviously the
business booms again and get these
smaller towns back to being bright and
vibrant and and giving hope to the
community to know that stability is here
and and families can can prosper and and
obviously you know some of us have been
lucky enough to find that and stay here.
But there's so much in this area that we
all love and that's the main reason why
we've decided not to go anywhere. We
don't want to lose. We want to keep jobs
here in Phillips.
>> You you've used the word stability. Mhm.
>> quite a quite a lot. Um, and stability
isn't just having a factory in a small
town in America.
>> You're not just simply talking about
bringing businesses to, >> right,
>> right,
>> and opening the factories in these
towns. You're talking about how they're led,
led, >> right?
>> right?
>> What is what is it that you want to see
how the the modern American factory is
led? What do you want it to go from?
What do you want it to go to?
I think the terminology we even use
managers versus leaders, right? We've
we've had opportunities to be led in our
in our jobs and I've been blessed to
have a lot of great leaders. I know what
a manager look like as well because I
experienced that. But if we can get
companies to start leading and growing
and looking at the talent that you have
within and looking at the opportunities
that you can present with this team
member, if they're loyal to a company,
we're going to grow them. We're going to
>> Language matters and Bob knows it. He's
obsessed with making sure his language
perfectly captures his message. At Barry
Waymiller, for example, they don't track
their headcount, they track their heart
count. Randall and I are standing on the
floor where he started as a welder back
in 1988.
Today, he's a production leader. The
former loner now leads teams of people.
The former skeptic is now one of the top
rated professors at Barry Waymiller
University, teaching what he's learned
about putting people first. One of the
things that I love about this place
is, you know, I've been to other
factories before and you've worked at
many places before. They're dirty generally
generally
and there's signs all over the place
that say safety first, safety first,
safety first. And the, you know, the how
many days since we've had an accident is
like four, you know. Uh, here it's
spotless. There's no big signs
everywhere that say safety first.
Where are all the signs and how is it so clean?
clean?
>> You're looking at all the signs.
Everyone in this building is part of the
culture. We're the signs. It's the way
that that we are as team members and
leaders. We support everyone. We support
each other. We help each other. That's
what this culture is about. And as a
leader, my only real job, as I can see
it, is to help my team succeed at all
cost. When somebody feels seen, heard,
understood, feel supported. As you said,
we were all the signs. The reaction is,
I want to keep this place clean, not for
me, but for you. I want to keep this
place safe. I want to keep you safe
because I care about you. And so you
don't need big signs, marketing
campaigns that let's be honest, they
don't work. It's just a way of management
management
>> saying they are prioritizing safety.
We're trying.
>> And what a lot of companies don't
realize is take care of the people. PE
people will take care of each other and
they'll take care of the space they're
working in.
[Music]
>> The biggest lesson from Barry Way Miller
is clear. When we make people feel truly
valued and take care of their lives,
they take care of each other. They show
up, they step up, they outperform, not
because they have to, but because they
want to. And all this in turn takes good
care of the company. This is exactly why
I love Bob Chapman. He is my mentor. He
is my friend and he inspires me. I met
you because you reached out to me um and
and showed me this magical place. I got
to know you and I wrote I ch I decided
to write about uh this amazing place
that you had built in in in a book I
wrote called Leaders Eat Last. You're
sort of the the sort of a central
character in that book, I would argue.
And you and I have become friends over
the years and and and you've been a
mentor to me. I've learned a lot about
how to improve my own leadership uh uh
ability from you. What have you learned
uh even about yourself over these past
15 years?
>> Well, Simon, when you came, we were on
this journey. Yeah.
>> And it was just an just an incremental
journey and you came in and you saw
something that we didn't see. I mean we
thought things were going well but you
you amplified our awareness that we had
been blessed and so what I have learned
because since we first met I've given
hundreds of speeches around the world
the Harvard case study the TEDex talk
you did the book
there's no question as I sit here today
since we first met that some higher
power is using us to show the world the
way he meant it to be where people
genuinely care for each other and I feel
this today I feel this tremendous
calling to take this responsibility of
this message I've been blessed with and
make sure it lives well beyond my time
with voices like yours, your books, your
your talks around the world. So, I feel
this tremendous sense of obligation. Why
would somebody pick a manufacturing
company in America that makes machinery
to show the world what it should be?
Okay. Okay. Why would he pick a
carpenter to, you know, be the father of
uh of our Christ? So I would say to you
I feel a profound and it grows because
the reaction I mean I speak in
healthcare, I speak in the military, I
speak in Congress, I speak in everywhere
I speak I see the hurt in the world and
so I'd say to you what has been
amplified is because you've opened the
door to the world. How could we have a
culture here in a traditional business
that the world said I've never seen
anything like? How is that possible? I'm
just a simple accountant from North St.
lowest one in a manufacturing plant
because we were blessed with a message
that could heal the world. And when I
look today as we talk, the issues we
face in the world. I see business as a
source of destruction creating economic
value but not human value and and I feel
a profound sense of responsibility with
you and our partnership. Change the way
the world sees its its responsibility to
people they have the privilege of
leading. I want to tell the story when I
first went on the tour of all your
factories and I saw this thing and I
remember saying to you, I can no longer
be accused of being a crazy idealist
because what I imagine exists in
reality. I I remember seeing the magic
and then you introduced me to the
culture team that had that was
responsible for these classes and a lot
of what you helping you implement what
you imagined. And after I'd seen this
tour and you knew my opinion of what I'd
seen, I remember they all sitting there
with big smiles thinking I was just
going to say, "You guys are amazing. You
guys are amazing." and they all waiting
with a big smile on their face. And I
remember my first comments to your
culture team
were, um, I think you may be the most
selfish company I've ever met, I said.
And I remember them all shocked. And I
said, oh yeah, I saw what you built and
it is nothing short of remarkable and it
is incredible what you have done for the
lives of back then 3,000 people. I said,
'Me meanwhile there are millions of
people struggling at work and you are
keeping to yourselves something that the
world would benefit from and uh I
remember it was on that day you sort of
said batter up and uh you started on a
speaking circuit to share what you'd
done. You've written your book Everybody
Matters to get the word out there. You
set up uh uh consultancy to help
companies learn what you're doing. you
set up a not for-p profofit to bring the
listening courses to civil servants
around the the country so that they may
benefit from from from the learning. So
you can help policing organizations,
ambulances, nurses, all of you know
firefighters that these are the people
that you're helping with these with
these courses. And it really is it is an
amazing thing. It's it's it's been an
amazing thing for me to watch this small
company that was very insular and doing
something amazing that you you really
are one of the leaders of the the
movement to to to make business a force for good for the health of people, not
for good for the health of people, not just for the prosperity of people. It's
just for the prosperity of people. It's been an amazing journey. Do you want to
been an amazing journey. Do you want to know how I've seen you change since I've
know how I've seen you change since I've met you?
met you? >> I gotten older.
>> I gotten older. >> Well, not not not in spirit. You have
>> Well, not not not in spirit. You have the same amazing energy from when I
the same amazing energy from when I first met you. Um, you are softer. And I
first met you. Um, you are softer. And I don't mean your voice is softer. I mean,
don't mean your voice is softer. I mean, uh, I never I it took years before I saw
uh, I never I it took years before I saw you choke up for the first time because
you choke up for the first time because of what you were saying. And, uh, I see
of what you were saying. And, uh, I see you choke up more often now. It was
you choke up more often now. It was always personal, but it's become
always personal, but it's become really personal. And, and you're more
really personal. And, and you're more willing to wear your emotions on your
willing to wear your emotions on your sleeve more than you used to. Even even
sleeve more than you used to. Even even even the way you used to give me like
even the way you used to give me like you know sort of like good to see you
you know sort of like good to see you Simon sort of like a tap on the shoulder
Simon sort of like a tap on the shoulder you know and then it became like a tap
you know and then it became like a tap on the back and then it became a bro hug
on the back and then it became a bro hug and and now you hug me you know you hug
and and now you hug me you know you hug me with love and I've seen that I felt
me with love and I've seen that I felt that that's going to it's going to make
that that's going to it's going to make me cry.
me cry. Um
Um I wish leaders
I wish leaders took leadership as personally as you do.
took leadership as personally as you do. you know, they they see it as
you know, they they see it as they see it as a rank or position. They
they see it as a rank or position. They see it as as power and authority. Um,
see it as as power and authority. Um, but they don't take it as seriously as
but they don't take it as seriously as raising a child. And you take taking
raising a child. And you take taking care of your people as seriously as
care of your people as seriously as taking care of your children. I mean, it
taking care of your children. I mean, it is not a punchline when you say that
is not a punchline when you say that everybody who works for you is someone's
everybody who works for you is someone's son and someone's daughter. I mean,
son and someone's daughter. I mean, you deeply mean it. and you deeply feel
you deeply mean it. and you deeply feel it.
it. You know, I have the pleasure of getting
You know, I have the pleasure of getting to talk to you when we're off camera.
to talk to you when we're off camera. And what people don't understand is this
And what people don't understand is this preaching that you do when you're on a
preaching that you do when you're on a microphone. This is how you are all the
microphone. This is how you are all the time.
time. >> I mean, like, can't you just have
>> I mean, like, can't you just have dinner?
dinner? >> My wife reminds me of that.
>> My wife reminds me of that. >> Can we just have dinner? Like, I got it.
>> Can we just have dinner? Like, I got it. I got it. I heard it. But this is this
I got it. I heard it. But this is this is it's so ingrained in who you are and
is it's so ingrained in who you are and how personally you take this. Um it's
how personally you take this. Um it's such a source of inspiration. I got to
such a source of inspiration. I got to tell you. Um I know people who turn it
tell you. Um I know people who turn it on and turn it off. And you can turn it
on and turn it off. And you can turn it off. It's it's core to who you are.
off. It's it's core to who you are. >> I always say, Simon, you can retire from
>> I always say, Simon, you can retire from a job, but you cannot retire from a
a job, but you cannot retire from a calling.
calling. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I'm sure you can imagine what it feels
>> I'm sure you can imagine what it feels like when I get in front of crowds all
like when I get in front of crowds all over the world and I see people come to
over the world and I see people come to tears. I see get standing ovations
tears. I see get standing ovations because can you imagine how it feels
because can you imagine how it feels again all the talks I've given in all
again all the talks I've given in all parts of the country to have the most
parts of the country to have the most healing message that people ever heard I
healing message that people ever heard I mean the reaction to our message
mean the reaction to our message universally
universally >> standing in ovation emotions because it
>> standing in ovation emotions because it gives people hope to think that some
gives people hope to think that some higher power selected this kid from
higher power selected this kid from North St. law with an accounting degree.
North St. law with an accounting degree. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> To show the world the way he meant it to
>> To show the world the way he meant it to be is profoundly meaningful. I mean, I
be is profoundly meaningful. I mean, I don't know how I don't how you don't get
don't know how I don't how you don't get emotional when you think I'm carrying a
emotional when you think I'm carrying a message that could heal the world. I
message that could heal the world. I mean, how how do you handle something
mean, how how do you handle something like that without emotion? I mean, you
like that without emotion? I mean, you can't it's not an academic feeling. It
can't it's not an academic feeling. It is right down here. And you can't say
is right down here. And you can't say things about this message when you get
things about this message when you get the feedback. The healing power of this
the feedback. The healing power of this is profound. And when look at the issues
is profound. And when look at the issues we face in this country and the world
we face in this country and the world that I get this exposure to talk to
that I get this exposure to talk to people all over the world and I see the
people all over the world and I see the same reaction. It's a universal truth in
same reaction. It's a universal truth in our world that people simply want to
our world that people simply want to know they matter.
know they matter. >> They simply want to know they matter.
>> They simply want to know they matter. >> The big joke of it all,
>> The big joke of it all, the big joke of it all
the big joke of it all is you were one of the highest
is you were one of the highest performing companies in your category.
performing companies in your category. You outperform the markets. Your people
You outperform the markets. Your people love working here. They work. They
love working here. They work. They people want their children to work here.
people want their children to work here. You have generations
You have generations of people working here. I I I I met uh
of people working here. I I I I met uh uh Lance before. His dad worked here. He
uh Lance before. His dad worked here. He works here. His his kids work here. His
works here. His his kids work here. His his his daughter-in-law works here. His
his his daughter-in-law works here. His wife works here. I mean, and it's there
wife works here. I mean, and it's there are there are other opportunities. There
are there are other opportunities. There are other places to work in in in
are other places to work in in in Phillips. They they want to work here.
Phillips. They they want to work here. They want their kids to work here. Like
They want their kids to work here. Like to have that level of devotion and love.
to have that level of devotion and love. I talked to people. I walked around
I talked to people. I walked around today. We talked to some of your folks
today. We talked to some of your folks who it is a joy for them to go the extra
who it is a joy for them to go the extra mile uh uh for you. It doesn't feel like
mile uh uh for you. It doesn't feel like a burden or a task. And this is what is
a burden or a task. And this is what is so astonishing to me that though you
so astonishing to me that though you don't do it for the business reasons,
don't do it for the business reasons, the connection is so damn obvious. Your
the connection is so damn obvious. Your people are just better people than in
people are just better people than in other companies. They themselves are not
other companies. They themselves are not better but they are given the
better but they are given the opportunity to be their best selves at
opportunity to be their best selves at Barry Wayne Miller and the company and
Barry Wayne Miller and the company and they are the beneficiaries because a
they are the beneficiaries because a profitable company means you can expand
profitable company means you can expand and take more care of your people better
and take more care of your people better care of your people that you can you can
care of your people that you can you can expand the number of classes available.
expand the number of classes available. You can invest in in training and you
You can invest in in training and you can invest in all the nice things
can invest in all the nice things because the business model works and
because the business model works and this is the thing that drives me nuts.
this is the thing that drives me nuts. It drives me nuts that people want us to
It drives me nuts that people want us to give economic reasons why they should do
give economic reasons why they should do this rather than
this rather than >> human reasons.
>> human reasons. >> I mean I mean it's like give me an e
>> I mean I mean it's like give me an e economic reason why I should be good to
economic reason why I should be good to my child
my child >> you know to if I'm good to my child will
>> you know to if I'm good to my child will my child increase their earning
my child increase their earning potential. The good news is that we are
potential. The good news is that we are clearly with your help, your voice in
clearly with your help, your voice in the world, your book, your voice, your P
the world, your book, your voice, your P is the world is is validating that this
is the world is is validating that this is the way to go and we are on a journey
is the way to go and we are on a journey to transform and create a more caring
to transform and create a more caring world where people feel they matter
world where people feel they matter regardless of your role in the company
regardless of your role in the company that you feel you matter and when you do
that you feel you matter and when you do that you see this goodness come out of
that you see this goodness come out of people. Again, I want to make sure you
people. Again, I want to make sure you cannot ask people to care. who can't go
cannot ask people to care. who can't go to a CEO of a major company and say,
to a CEO of a major company and say, "You need to care about your people."
"You need to care about your people." Say, "Sure, I do, but we're going to
Say, "Sure, I do, but we're going to have a layoff next week, but you know, I
have a layoff next week, but you know, I care about them." Okay, but I pay them
care about them." Okay, but I pay them well and they got good. It's it's we
well and they got good. It's it's we have to change the whole perspective of
have to change the whole perspective of our society where we are stewards of the
our society where we are stewards of the people we have the privilege to leave. I
people we have the privilege to leave. I say to executives all the time, the
say to executives all the time, the greatest act of charity is not the
greatest act of charity is not the checks you write to the Cancer Society
checks you write to the Cancer Society or all those other noble causes. The
or all those other noble causes. The greatest act of charity is how you treat
greatest act of charity is how you treat the people you have the privilege of
the people you have the privilege of leading. Yeah,
leading. Yeah, >> that is the greatest. And if we had
>> that is the greatest. And if we had that, we wouldn't need all the charities
that, we wouldn't need all the charities to to fix the brokenness of the world.
to to fix the brokenness of the world. >> You told me a story a bunch of years ago
>> You told me a story a bunch of years ago of uh a wealthy guy who had retired and
of uh a wealthy guy who had retired and he'd made boatloads of cash running a
he'd made boatloads of cash running a very very large business and he came to
very very large business and he came to you for advice on how to be a
you for advice on how to be a philanthropist on how to how to
philanthropist on how to how to distribute that money.
distribute that money. >> Yeah. This is a gentleman in traditional
>> Yeah. This is a gentleman in traditional terms extremely successful had
terms extremely successful had contributed $120 million to his alma
contributed $120 million to his alma mada and had heard me speak and just
mada and had heard me speak and just flew out to talk to me. He was touched
flew out to talk to me. He was touched by my speech. Good Christian man, good
by my speech. Good Christian man, good values, good Midwestern values. And
values, good Midwestern values. And again the what led to that is I said,
again the what led to that is I said, "What are you proud of in your life?"
"What are you proud of in your life?" And he said, "This minority student
And he said, "This minority student athletic scholarship program." I had no
athletic scholarship program." I had no idea of this company. So I just said
idea of this company. So I just said again, "How many people work for your
again, "How many people work for your company?" He said, "100,000." And I
company?" He said, "100,000." And I said, "So, you really care about five or
said, "So, you really care about five or six people you can help with a with a
six people you can help with a with a scholarship and you don't care about the
scholarship and you don't care about the 100,000 people?" And he he virtually
100,000 people?" And he he virtually leaned back in his chair and he said, "I
leaned back in his chair and he said, "I never thought about that." And again the
never thought about that." And again the one other story that amplifies that is I
one other story that amplifies that is I was giving a speech in a church a major
was giving a speech in a church a major church uh to a lunchon event and I did
church uh to a lunchon event and I did as a favor to somebody and a gentleman
as a favor to somebody and a gentleman came up to me running a major
came up to me running a major international organization said I
international organization said I thought my job was to be the market
thought my job was to be the market leader in our industry in the world and
leader in our industry in the world and we achieved that. I thought that was my
we achieved that. I thought that was my job.
job. >> But until I heard you speak,
>> But until I heard you speak, it never occurred to me to care for the
it never occurred to me to care for the 130,000 people in our organization. Then
130,000 people in our organization. Then he added, "You've given me a whole
he added, "You've given me a whole different purpose to my role."
different purpose to my role." >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And and again, we have a society where
>> And and again, we have a society where we celebrate financial success, market
we celebrate financial success, market share gains. We don't and again, we
share gains. We don't and again, we don't look at how you treated people.
don't look at how you treated people. So again, the biggest message then is
So again, the biggest message then is the way we treat people affects the way
the way we treat people affects the way they go home and live. If we're worried
they go home and live. If we're worried about kids today, what's wrong with kids
about kids today, what's wrong with kids today? Where do they come from? They
today? Where do they come from? They come from our families. Okay. What's
come from our families. Okay. What's wrong with their families? Parents come
wrong with their families? Parents come home from work.
home from work. Exhausted.
Exhausted. Okay. TGIF. Thank God it's Friday. Get
Okay. TGIF. Thank God it's Friday. Get out of that place. I imagine a day with
out of that place. I imagine a day with the work we're doing together. We're
the work we're doing together. We're going to go to TGIM. Thank goodness it's
going to go to TGIM. Thank goodness it's money. get away from the kids, the
money. get away from the kids, the spouse, and be back to a place where I
spouse, and be back to a place where I really enjoy being a part of the team.
really enjoy being a part of the team. So, I would say to you, the vision that
So, I would say to you, the vision that we've been working on for 13 years, we
we've been working on for 13 years, we have made tremendous progress in
have made tremendous progress in bringing this message to the world and
bringing this message to the world and to make sure that it will not die with
to make sure that it will not die with me, that it will live on well beyond our
me, that it will live on well beyond our time. With your work, your book, your
time. With your work, your book, your talks, and our and our new book,
talks, and our and our new book, Everybody Matters, a new edition, we
Everybody Matters, a new edition, we have a chance to shape the world that
have a chance to shape the world that desperately is looking for hope right
desperately is looking for hope right now. Well, I promised you I sent you an
now. Well, I promised you I sent you an email years ago.
email years ago. >> I know. It's framed in my office.
>> I know. It's framed in my office. >> I know. I know. I I I promised you years
>> I know. I know. I I I promised you years ago in an email I sent you that uh that
ago in an email I sent you that uh that I I will carry your torch
for all the years I have left. And then I'll pass it on to the next person.
I'll pass it on to the next person. Thank you for your stewardship.
I love you. I really do.
I really do. I'm so grateful for that crazy 1-hour
I'm so grateful for that crazy 1-hour lunch that became a three-hour lunch and
lunch that became a three-hour lunch and this crazy adventure you've taken me on,
this crazy adventure you've taken me on, you know,
you know, because uh we've said it a thousand
because uh we've said it a thousand times to each other. We validate each
times to each other. We validate each other's work. you know, I validated your
other's work. you know, I validated your work by saying, you know, in the
work by saying, you know, in the marketplace in the in sort of in in my
marketplace in the in sort of in in my work
work that's the right way. You know, I know I
that's the right way. You know, I know I validated your your theories and your
validated your your theories and your ideas at scale and you validated my work
ideas at scale and you validated my work because it's I'm just an idiot idealist
because it's I'm just an idiot idealist who writes about these what could happen
who writes about these what could happen and uh you made it real. This is a very
and uh you made it real. This is a very large company. Make no mistake of it.
large company. Make no mistake of it. This is thousands and thousands of
This is thousands and thousands of employees, billions of dollars worth of
employees, billions of dollars worth of revenue, international global company. I
revenue, international global company. I mean, this is not some little mom and
mean, this is not some little mom and pop corner store that takes care of its
pop corner store that takes care of its people. You know, this is this is a
people. You know, this is this is a large operation at scale. And you prove
large operation at scale. And you prove that not only are the people happier and
that not only are the people happier and their families are happier and their
their families are happier and their communities are happier, but it is a
communities are happier, but it is a phenomenal recipe for prosperity.
phenomenal recipe for prosperity. Healthy people make for prosperous
Healthy people make for prosperous companies and healthy healthy people
companies and healthy healthy people make for prosperous nations. Um Bob,
make for prosperous nations. Um Bob, thank you for being a light, a beacon.
thank you for being a light, a beacon. Thank you for being who you are. You
Thank you for being who you are. You know, we should probably turn it off
know, we should probably turn it off right now before we both just
right now before we both just blubber fest.
blubber fest. >> Uh but uh yeah, I love what you're
>> Uh but uh yeah, I love what you're doing. You're what you I I I see your
doing. You're what you I I I see your soul when you talk because we've touched
soul when you talk because we've touched your soul. Not your mind, your soul.
your soul. Not your mind, your soul. This is the way the world was meant to
This is the way the world was meant to be. And when you see it,
be. And when you see it, >> yeah,
>> yeah, >> you know that this is the way it was
>> you know that this is the way it was meant to be. That we learn to care for
meant to be. That we learn to care for each other.
each other. >> Amen.
>> Amen. >> Amen.
>> Amen. >> Thank you.
>> A bit of optimism is a production of the Optimism Company. Lovingly produced by
Optimism Company. Lovingly produced by our team, Lindseay Garbinius, Phoebe
our team, Lindseay Garbinius, Phoebe Bradford, and Devin Johnson. Subscribe
Bradford, and Devin Johnson. Subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to
wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts. And if you want even more cool
podcasts. And if you want even more cool stuff, visit simonscynic.com.
stuff, visit simonscynic.com. Thanks for listening. Take care of
Thanks for listening. Take care of yourself. Take care of each other.
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