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The Man Who Proved Me Right with CEO Bob Chapman and the Barry-Wehmiller Team | A Bit of Optimism

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Core Theme

The core theme is the transformative power of "truly human leadership," which prioritizes empathy, trust, and relationships to drive both human well-being and business success, challenging the traditional view of business as solely a source of economic value.

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I wish leaders

took leadership as personally as you do.

They see it as a rank or position. They

see it as as power and authority, but

they don't take it as seriously as

raising a child. And you take taking

care of your people as seriously as

taking care of your children. You deeply

mean it. You deeply feel it. I know

people who turn it on and turn it off.

And you can turn it off. It's it's core

to who you are. I always say Simon you

can retire from a job but you cannot

retire from a calling. Yeah.

>> And when I look today as we talk the

issues we face in the world I see

business as a source of destruction

creating economic value but not human

value. And and I feel a profound sense

of responsibility change the way the

world sees its its responsibility to

people they have the privilege of

leading. I imagine a world in which the

vast majority of people wake up every

single morning inspired, feel safe

wherever they are, and end the day

fulfilled by the work that they do. When

most people hear me say this, they think

it's just the ramblings of a crazy

idealist. And I would actually agree

with them until I met Bob Chapman. When

I met Bob, he claimed that he'd actually

built a company that embodied what I

imagined. And to be honest, I didn't

believe him. Again, I'm a crazy idealist

and what I imagine isn't supposed to

exist in reality. It's supposed to be a

striving, which is why I wanted to go

see for myself. Bob has spent 50 years

leading a company called Barry

Waymiller. And what started as a humble

Midwestern manufacturing company is now

a 3.6 billion global powerhouse with

nearly 12,000 team members. And what

he's built is more than a successful

company. It's a model of what any

company could and should look like. His

approach is called truly human

leadership. And it's a simple idea.

Prioritize empathy, trust, and

relationships to drive performance.

These lessons work in any workplace and

any industry. And it proves that how we

treat people at work, how we care for

people at work can transform our

families, our communities, and indeed

the world around us. I encouraged Bob to

write it all down. And he did in his

book, Everybody Matters, which I am also

proudly the publisher. And with a new

edition recently released, Bob and I

decided to take a trip back to the

factory where he first showed me what he

built. And we did something a little

different in this episode. Yes, I sit

down with my dear friend and yes, there

are tears of inspiration. And this time,

you will also hear from some of the

people whose lives have been touched by

Bob's leadership style. They are proof

that I can no longer be called a crazy

idealist if what I imagine exists in reality.

reality.

This episode is brought to you by

Porsche and their new Macan. And when

they reached out to us and asked if I

would be comfortable to talk about the

new Porsche Macan, well, let's just say

I already owned one. That's actually my

car. So, the simple answer was yes. I am

someone who has lived my entire life

around big cities. So visiting Phillips,

Wisconsin feels like I'm stepping into

some alternative universe, into a place

where life feels simpler, where spending

time outdoors is better than any video

game. And spending time with family and

friends is the most valuable commodity

there is. And work, at least for those

who work at BW Paper Systems, is now one

of the essential parts of the good life.

I remembered the first time I entered

the plant. I was struck by the sheer

size of the place, the high ceilings. It

was like a huge indoor concrete football

field lined with dozens of surprisingly

clean machines. Their movements and

their hums giving the place life. This

is now my fifth time visiting and every

single time I've come back here, I'm

struck by how clean and organized and

magical it all feels. There's no chaos.

Everything is in its place. Everyone

knows their role. It's a sight to

behold. And like an orchestra, there's a

symphony being played by this group of

people with a common cause. But that

doesn't mean that there's a lack of fun.

>> I'm a mover and a groover. Like I don't

have it blaring right now, but when you

none of you are here, my radio is blaring.

blaring.

>> That's Amber Mayor. She's responsible

for the small parts getting to where

they need to be all over the factory.

>> Sometimes there's parts all over this

place and I have to play like you can't

find them. Well, guess what?

>> Here I am, Inspector Gadget, like

running around. So, I do put a lot of

steps in a day.

>> You like see your count? I'm

>> How many How many have you done? How

long What time did you Did you get

>> 6:00? So, I'm at 9,34.

>> You did 9,000 steps in 3 hours.

>> Amber got a job here 3 years ago. Her

husband decided to join her 6 months later.

later.

>> What did you do prior?

>> I bartended/waitress

almost 20 years at Club and Eery right

across the street here. So, I actually

dealt with a lot of these employees and

stuff over there. So, a lot of people

knew me already before I even came here.

So, when it came to me applying here,

they're like, "We want her. We know what

kind of worker she is."

>> And what did you know about them just

from seeing them come through the bar

and the restaurant? How did they talk

about work? Because, you know, usually

people come to a bar.

>> It's a great place to work. It's not like

>> they order a double and they they whine

and complain about their bosses.

>> They very rarely had to order because I

already knew what they wanted the minute

they sat down. Like a lot of these

people, like I said, I waited on them a

lot. But um they said that working for

this place was unlike any other factory

or facility that you'd ever worked for

before. Mind you, back in the day, I did

work for another factory. And this place

is so much more laidback and easygoing

than any place like that. Like they're

more focused on the people and like try

to help us and take care of us and make

sure that we are all happy here. How do

you feel when you come to work compared

to the way you would feel in other jobs

when you would go to work?

>> Well, I don't even use an alarm to be

honest with you. I just wake up and get

going before I need an alarm to wake up.

So, and I do not mind, you know, if my

leader were to ask me, can you stay? Or

even this last weekend, I ended up

getting messages and phone calls from

the weekend shift and I'm like, do you

guys need me to come in? I'll come in.

I'll help you out. Like,

>> but weren't you always like that?

Weren't you like that in other jobs?

Isn't that your personality? >> No.

>> No.

>> Say more.

>> It it gets to a point, you know, where

people take advantage of you. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> If you do too much, it's like they know

and they know they can push you and push

you and push you and take more and they

don't respect you anymore. It's like,

well, she did it this one time, so she's

going to continue to do it and we're

going to put more on her plate just

because we know she can handle it. No,

no, no, no. That's not how it works.

Like, make me happy. Like, I'm helping

you. What can you do to help me? You

know, is my mentality. Like,

>> but they do ask you to sometimes come in

on the weekend or go stay longer on your

shift. And yet, >> but

>> but

>> how is that different?

>> For some reason, I feel like it's my

family, it's my team, and I'm helping

them out because I know that if I ask

for something,

>> they're going to return the favor, you

know? I mean, you can't get that everywhere.

Bob Chapman was not always such a

peoplecentric leader. Trained as an

accountant, he used to run his business

well like an accountant. People were

line items. They were an expense to be

managed. But something happened.

Something Bob did not expect. Many years

ago, Bob and his wife were attending a

wedding. They sat in the pews and

watched the ceremony play out in front

of them. The father of the bride walks

his daughter down the aisle and

ceremonially gives her away. Then he

turns and sits down in his seat. Bob

couldn't get this image out of his head.

A father who would give his life for his

precious child was giving her away to

another man with the hope that he will

take care of her with the same love that

he did for so many years. That's when

the epiphany struck. every single person

who works in Bob's company is someone's

son or someone's daughter. That every

single employee is someone's precious

child who's now in Bob's care. It was

this realization that set Bob on a

journey that he did not expect to be on.

One that would completely change the way

I'm so curious like when when you meet

people and they say to you sort of Bob

what have you built? What's your

business? How do you talk about this?

Well, as you know, my first half of my

career was very traditional about

management, financial results, and

growth. And through the series of

revelations I went through were the lens

through which I saw people because I saw

them as machinists, labor, union

members, office people, people working

on the floor, all the traditional ways

we talk about. And the lens was reversed

and I saw them as somebody's precious

child that's been placed in my care.

Everything changed for me. So the lens

through which you see people affects the

way you treat people. If you because I

was raised that you need people to

achieve results and when you don't need

them anymore you let them go. So the

lens was clearly seen if you see people

as somebody's precious child it

profoundly affects your leadership

style. My major responsibility to people

are in company is to give them a

grounded sense of hope for the future.

They can trust in my care. I take that

incredibly profoundly seriously.

>> I know you and I have talked about this

about sort of how being a parent and

being a leader are very similar. You

talk about how being a parent, this

child is brought into your life and

you're responsible for its growth and

its upbringing. And in business, a

person is brought into your office and

you're responsible for their growth and

their upbringing. I appreciate that the

lens for you changed where you stopped

seeing people as line items and you know

mechanisms for your success but rather

that you are now responsible for their

growth, their success, their happiness,

their well-being. How did you make the

conversion to be this heartfelt leader

rather than just all head and all

numbers? It was a journey. When I

realized that day at the wedding that

the all 12,000 of our team members

around the world are not functions for

my success. there's somebody's precious

child who I have in my care for 40 hours

a week. It changed everything. And and a

young man asked me about that time, what

is your greatest fear, Bob? Now, you

know me, I'm an internal optimist. And I

had to stop and think and I said my

greatest fear is that we were blessed

with a message of the way the world was

intended to be where people would

genuinely care for each other and would

be dependent upon me and I would leave

this company this earth and what I had

built would fall apart because I've seen

that happen in churches and companies

all over the world. So my greatest fear

is that this blessing we've been given

would not live beyond my time. So we

began I got had an incredible team

around me called the empowerment team

you know some of those members and I

said how do great religions survive all

the time you know this is how we evolve

from great religions and we said they

articulate their beliefs which we have

in the guiding principle of leadership

and then they have disciples who carry

this message forward beyond the founder

because it's not Bob we all believe this

is the way we should treat each other so

we said how are we going to do that we

can't send people back to iversities to

learn to be truly human leaders. So this

eclectic team for the whiteboard said,

"Well, we're going to create our own

university." And they came up with three

powerful classes.

Empathetic listening, which is the most

powerful of all human skills.

Recognition and celebration. How do you

let people know they matter in

thoughtful, appropriate ways? And then

culture of service, serving from it's

all about me to actually care about you.

>> And I know all of the classes that you

teach are uh voluntary. people choose to

go through it and if they don't want to

go through it then that's fine. Um uh

but people can see the impact that it

has on their co-workers, their their

colleagues and friends when they do go

through these classes which is why I

know that there's a there's a good long

waiting list for people to get into your

classes. What is what are the core ideas

that you teach in the empathetic

listening class for example? Well, first

of all, one of the things I've learned

in teaching this is our team member

David Vinol who came up with the idea

because when when somebody said if we're

going to start a university, we need to

teach people to listen. I thought why

would we need to teach adults to listen?

We all know how to listen. Okay, that is

the biggest revolution we realize that

we don't know how to listen. Okay, we

we're taught to speak and we're taught

to debate, but we're not taught to

listen. Okay. The issues we the divide

we have in this country in the world is

because we have a lot of people I'm

right and you're wrong. Okay. That's the

world we see it in politics between our

countries. And so this team came up with

this idea that we would teach empathetic

listening. Okay, which is is the most

foundational human skill that you can

possibly have because it you can you

validate the worth of others when you

listen to them without judge. Not

listening to debate, not listening to

respond or judge, simply listening to

validate the other person. It still

amazes me, Simon, we were simply trying

to change managers into leaders into

disciples, people who would carry this

forward well beyond my time. 95% of the

feedback, 95% was how it affected their

marriage and their relationship with

their children. And I thought, what?

Because I mean, I was never told never.

This class was built to help people

function better at work. Right. That

they would that they would communicate

better at work. Right. Right.

>> I thought when you hire somebody, the

pay and the benefits was the exchange

for the present. As long as you needed

them, you would pay them. But when you

didn't need them, you'd let them go. And

this changed everything because what we

what we realize is what people want to

know is that they matter. Okay? We have

a very prosperous economy but we do not

have a a healthy economy because we have

the depression anxiety because people

don't feel valued they feel used. So

this listening class still amazes me

20ome years later that we've taught all

over the world. This is not an American

issue. This is a global issue. When you

teach people to listen

they tell you the stories of how to

improve their marriage and their

relationship with the kids. So when we

say what's wrong with kids today, I said

where did they come from? It came from

families where parents probably came

home from a job where they don't feel

valued. They don't pro because of that

stress and anxiety whatever and concern

about their future probably don't treat

their spouse as well as possible. And

what do our kids see? They see the

behavior of our parents who don't know

how to care for each other. They may be

in love but they don't know how to

listen to each other. And so it was it

was unbelievable the feedback we got. If

if your listeners could have heard the

thousands of people I've heard around

the world who have taken this class from

India to Serbia to China, it's a

universal truth. The healing power of

Randall Fleming started on this floor 36

years ago. At the time, a young welder

who self-identified

as Darth Vader. Hey, Randall.

>> Hello, Simon.

>> Good to see you.

>> Good to see you, sir.

>> When Barry Waymiller acquired the

company 25 years ago, Randall was not

exactly thrilled. Just like I didn't

believe Bob when I first met him, a lot

of his new employees, like Randall,

didn't believe him either. So, Barry Way

Miller buys the company.

>> Yes. Uh, and they make all kinds of

promises and statements and you hear you

see this

Bob Chap and this weird larger than-l

life character come in. What was it that

he was saying that you sort of rolled

your eyes?

>> Oh man, just about everything. And

>> before the acquisition, there were no

leadership classes and definitely no

touchyfeilly culture. This was a

traditional American manufacturing

plant. Run with a command and control

culture. You clocked in, did your job,

kept your head down, didn't ask

questions, didn't make waves, did your

work, and then clocked out. That was the

culture. But that all changed when Bob

and his team took over.

>> We always had these, we called them

flavor of the month. You have all of

these different things that they

implement and nothing ever really comes

of it. You don't really see any results.

But this was a whole new company coming

in with all of these promises. But then

there was also some major changes that

were happening. And I was standoffish a

lot just because of some of the things

that were occurring business-wise.

Um but more so, you know, this promise

of a better place. It's like I just want

to do my job, you know, just don't

promise me anything. Just leave me

alone. I don't need a speech. I don't

need a company meeting. you know, I just

need to clock in, clock out, and Friday

I'll deposit my check. So, it was just

foreign. I didn't believe anything

because we never heard anything, you

know, that really ever meant anything

>> because you'd heard promises before of

this and that

>> and it was just talk. Maybe it was good

for a week.

>> Yeah. It would you do something, okay,

it's done and then six months later,

what whatever came of that?

>> So, you were cynical at all the

promises, which is totally fair because

you've heard it all before.

>> Yes. But then what happened?

>> Well, one individual came from Green

Bay. They made him what was called the

continuous improvement leader at the

time and he didn't know me um luckily.

And uh then there was another woman that

they was here and they I used to work in

the far end of the building and they

would come by and say hi to me and how's

it going and I would just ignore them.

Um cuz I didn't want to talk to anybody.

Just leave me alone. You know, I don't

like you. Get out of here. But they were

so persistent. I mean day after day

>> like they would say good morning regardless.

regardless. >> Ireardless.

>> Ireardless.

>> Yeah. And I was lucky enough that I had

I was able to surround my work area with

enough work that you literally had to

crawl over it to get in by me. Well, one

day the um Moren was her is her name

crawled over all the steel and walked

right up to me and hi Randall, how are

you doing today? And I was kind of

stunned, but it was a woman so I was

nice. I tried to be nice. But that was

kind of the start of, you know, I

started to hear things that, okay, maybe

this isn't just the flavor of the month.

Maybe this is real. There was a a a

course that I we they advertised. It was

called communication skills and uh 2003

I signed up for the course and um

>> that's was voluntary. Nobody was made to take.

take.

>> So what was the reason you decided to

take the course? What I was thinking in

my mind is you're either going to prove

me right or wrong.

>> What were you hoping to get out of the course?

course?

>> An answer because at that time I was

going through a personal change as well.

But I wanted an answer. Am I going to

stay here or not? In my mind, I had to

answer that question because, you know,

I saw it as this is the it's either the

time for me to leave or the time for me

to, you know, really get on board or

embrace what's going on here because I

was tired of

I don't want to say not knowing, but I I

was just tired of thinking about it. So

just prove me right or wrong so I can

make a decision and either move on or

I'm gonna I'm gonna try this.

>> And when you say move on because you're

like I can't take all this hokey stuff

like it's not for me. I just want to go

to a place that leaves me and lets me do

my work. Stop saying hi to me every

morning. So that was the

>> the first day in the class I was

listening to the you know what they were

talking about and I was asking a lot of

questions and not getting any answers.

And um one of the individuals that was

there, he was actually the guy that

trained the professors at the time, he

kind of pulled me aside and had a

conversation with me that he literally

said two words through the whole

conversation. So after I talked with him

for a little while, I was like, "Okay, I

think I'm learning something here. This

isn't communication skills. This is

self-reflection." Randall time is really

what that course was about. I came out

of the course with a whole different not

just view of Barry Waym Miller but a

view of how I was doing things how I

thought how I react. Um so if I hadn't

done that I don't know how it would have all

all

>> what were you like before now that you

have cl had clarity

>> looking back how would you have

described yourself you know that looking

at yourself from the outside in >> prior

>> prior

>> yeah pri now now now that you had the

clarity how would you describe

>> well to those I trusted I was probably

an okay guy but for those that I didn't

which was 90% of the rest um probably

wasn't a very good guy. You know, I

didn't like anybody. I I would uh I was

told by an engineer one time that I

turned him around at 50 ft just by

looking at him when he was coming to

talk to me. Um but for those that I

actually trusted, and there was a

handful in the building, >> sure,

>> sure,

>> I probably didn't come off that way, but

I was I liked coming off that way to the

rest of the world. Just leave me alone

>> because it kept people away. Keep it

away. I want to talk to you. Nothing you

can say. I have interest though.

>> As a result of that and the continue and

being open to what all the other stuff

that Barry Whim Miller the way it it it

treats people, the way it leads the

culture. Who are you now?

>> 180 degrees from that other guy is the

best I can put it because

>> um I really enjoy meeting people now. Um

I travel a lot so when I meet people I

usually get into a conversation about

something. Uh yeah just a completely

different person. And you know I look

back on it and I think about how I used

to react to things and think and it's

like it's hard for me to imagine that

now you know why was I like that but

that was just my whole life experience. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> You know made me that guy. Looking back

now, you you were in the traditional

factory setting.

You were probably completely unable to

recognize the stress you were under. Can

you look back now and say my life was

like I felt stress compared to now? Is is

>> I I can answer that even better was

anger. I never had stress. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> No one could give me stress. I was just

mad at everything.

>> Just ma angry. I mean that affects your

home life.

>> Oh yeah. I got divorced because of it. I

mean, I didn't I wasn't a a bad husband,

but I wasn't a supportive, emotionally

available guy either. Um, and I look

back on that, but you know, it was at

that time in my life, you know,

everything that had led up to that, like

I say, I wasn't I didn't have stress. I

actually had a guy a a physician one

time look at me and go, "You're either

mad or angry. You don't have anything

else." And um I did later on after I

figured this out and was able to change

um I realized that yeah that I only had

one thing. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I was never happy about anything. I

didn't love anything. I just was mad all

the time.

>> I don't think people appreciate just how

poignant this is. You know, I think a

lot of leaders, a lot of companies will

label somebody as a mad person. That's

their personality.

And it I don't think it ever occurs to

anybody that it is work.

>> It is the work environment that somebody

was raised in that made them angry that

makes somebody like that that my job

makes me into the kind of person that

would lead to a divorce. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And simply by changing the work environment,

environment,

the person changes.

the person changes it. I I think

everybody thinks it's the the

personality they come to work and not

that the work makes the personality.

>> Yeah, a lot of it is. I mean, but it it

also feeds it, you know. So,

>> so if you have a a kernel of it, it'll

uh exaggerate it.

>> Yeah. To me, it's really it it spills

way over into my personal life. Um my my

kids and I are best friends. Um and it

wasn't like that. I was dad. They were

kids even when they were grown. But

that's, you know, the what I always call

the big win is, you know, they are you

the same at work as you are at home.

That was always the question I used to

hear is like, well, yeah, I'm the same

here as I am at home.

But luckily, I was able to turn it a

different way. Usually, when a company

wants to change its culture, it hires

some change management consultant.

There's lots of powerpoints given, and

there's an expectation that everyone

changes on the assigned day.

That's not what Bob did. He came in, he

shared his philosophy of leadership and

he simply invited people to join

whenever they wanted on their own time

frame. We've bifurcated the world,

right? It's like you have your home life

and you have your work life.

>> And we forget that it's not two

different worlds. It's one very

integrated world because the people who

are going to work go back home and vice

versa. And so if they go to a place of

work where they don't feel like their

work matters or they don't feel like

they matter, they don't feel like their

leaders care about them as human beings,

they only see them as means of

production. Um that stress that they

carry of course has to go somewhere and

it comes in the form of lack of sleep,

high blood pressure, it comes in the

you're grumpy, you're short-tempered and

that affects one's own health, but it

also affects the health of the family

unit. as you said, you know, you come

home stressed from work uh just cuz you

have a a shitty boss, you know, not a

toxic person, not somebody who's like

screaming and yelling, just doesn't make

you feel like you're mad or they just

care about your your productivity. That

stress comes out at home and that

affects kids grades, kids

self-confidence. And it's an amazing

concept. It's and it's so the logic is

so simple. logic is there which

>> it has to be simple because I I've it's

occurred to me it has to be simple

>> which is if you're teaching these people

how to listen empathetic listening so

that they can better communicate at work

those skills are the skills they're

going home not only do they feel better

at work they're taking those skills

they're raising their kids better it's

having a I mean that a good job and a

good place to work is good for my family

o occurs to nobody >> right

>> right

>> and and that and and that a company

would say come work for us it's good for

your family other than just the the

amount of money we're going to pay you

because that's usually how we measure if

it's good for your family. How much can

I provide?

>> In my education, undergraduate

accounting, MBA, Price Waterhouse, then

running a family business. I was never

taught, never told, never made aware

that the way I would run this company

would affect people's personal lives

other than the compensation and the

benefits. We think that is the exchange.

You give me your gifts, I'll pay you

fairly. But the most powerful thing we

do to people is validate their worth.

And the greatest source of happiness is

a good job doing meaningful work for the

people we enjoy. I get in front of CEOs

all over the world and I say you're all

worried about the cost of healthcare.

You are the problem. 74% of all

illnesses are chronic. The biggest cause

of chronic illness is stress and the

biggest cause of stress is work. Jeffrey

Feifer at Stanford wrote a book dying

for a paycheck. And he doesn't mean

anxious to get it. He estimates we're

killing 120,000 people a year die of

work related stress. Can you imagine if

we taught in our MBAs in our MBA classes

that that that how you lead will

directly affect someone's health and

that if you're a bad leader there's a

very short chain of logic that you're

actually killing somebody increase in

cortisol you know hurts the immune

system you know this slow steady drip of

of cortisol because of the stress at

work I mean to your point which is

people don't feel responsible for the

lives of the people in their span of

care because nobody's connected the dots

for Yeah. I mean, seriously, Simon, you

can't ask people to care. You have to

teach them how to care. You can't ask

people to speak Chinese. You have to

teach them how to speak. We found that

caring is a teachable skill. And the

good news is that with your

encouragement and support and the

evolution of this that we are working

with a number of major universities now

to transform business education to

create tomorrow's leaders who have the

skills and courage to care to bring

these human skills into with academic

skills. So when they leave our

educational system they're ready to live

in the beauty of diversity not the

conflict of diversity. They're ready to

be good stewards of the lives at home,

in their community, at work. But it's a

teachable skill and but we have always

felt academic skills are the key to

>> We interrupt this podcast with an ad

with authenticity. This episode is

sponsored by Porsche and their new

Macan, which is actually my car. I had

it before they called. It's actually my

car and I love it.

>> There there is an entire team in Germany

that just focuses on how material feels

or what what the cadence of the buttons

are or how they feel when you release

them or what sound they make. And I

think that's one thing that really

speaks to me with the brand is that it

comes all the way back to its roots of

engineers and designers within the

Porsche family. And when you have those

two, it really comes back to the senses.

>> My god, it works perfectly. It's the

other reason why I have to say I love

having a German car, which is everything

works always exactly as it was designed.

>> Yeah. Well said. Well said. And and I

will tell you that although the

stereotype is, well, it's just about

efficiency. It's just about perfection.

It's just about mechanical ability. The

people behind these product

developments, they are lifelong Porsche

owners, lifelong Porsche fans, racing

fans, and they dedicate years to the

smallest decisions and how this whole

car comes together. And that part is so

fun for me on the inside.

>> It says a lot when the people who are

making the car that you drive are fans

of the car you drive. There's passion

and love and you feel it.

>> I totally agree. Feel it.

There are some people who are cynical

that this is all fine and good and

hippie-dippy when the economy is great,

but when the economy dips, you know, you

got to you got to tighten the belt and

focus on the numbers. And you know, and

we see it all the time, even

well-intentioned companies, as soon as

you know something dips the numbers, the

first thing to suffer is the people.

They cut the recognition programs. They

cut the spending on the leadership

programs. They lay people off, right?

>> You know, it's it's the first thing we

do. So, it sounds like these things are

all nice to haves if if if if you're

thriving. What do you have to say to

those companies that that's the first

thing they cut people and programs when

when when struggle happens? I mean, what

does Barry Weey Miller do?

>> Well, it starts with we have a

constitution of our culture, the guiding

principle of leadership. Yeah. And the

overwhelming the vision is we measure

success by the way we touch the lives of

people. So we kind of have a

constitution that guides us like our

country does in terms of the the

responsibility of leadership. So if you

embrace that and you end up with an

economic situation, what do we do?

>> In 2008 when the housing market

collapsed, it sent the economy into a

financial crisis. Savings were wiped

out, companies collapsed, and lives were

shattered. As the economy went into full

recession, most companies thought that

they had no other option but to lay

people off in order to survive. BW was

also hit hard by the recession. But Bob

Our orders dropped by 30%. And I was

taught, well, you know, what you got to

do is you got to let people go because,

you know, that's what just what you do.

It's not personal. It's just what we do. We

>> I once, as you know, in the Air Force

asked some of the generals, how do you

teach these young men and women to kill?

They said, "We don't. We teach them to

take out targets that made bad

decisions." They try to dehumanize

the hurt they're going to infect and

dropping bombs. We do that in business.

We say, "Well, we had we rightsize the

company. You know, we organized the

company. We gave the shareholders what

they want. We dehumanized reduce headcount.

headcount.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We we dehumanize the impact.

Psychological studies show that when

people are let go, I walk up to you and

say, "Sorry, I know you just bought a

house. I know we just, but I'm going to

have to let you go because we got to

make the numbers work." It is a major

failure of stewardship because I tell

our people around the world, my primary

responsibility as a leader of this

company is to have a business model that

you feel safe. Okay? that you can raise

a family, you can have a home. Layoffs

are a broken part of our society. It

means your business model failed. You

let people down. Okay.

>> Okay. I got to go deeper in that. You

see, if you embrace layoffs, it means

your business model failed.

>> Most major

uh public companies and unfortunately a

lot of private companies, but most major

public companies have fully embraced

>> layoffs as an as a regular mechanism to

balance the books. Have their business

models failed?

>> Yes. Well, their leadership failed.

Remember, very profitable companies.

Jack Welch taught us years ago, you can

always probably let 5% of your people go

and you'll actually do better, not just

to reduce cost, but you know, it's good

to kind of take the low performers out.

So I was taught from very early age

layoffs are a positive thing you do for

a company because you improve

profitability and investment advisors

will come to your company and say you

want to improve your your image in the market

market

lay off some people and and say we're

going to we're going to make more money

and it so part of it is the investing

public rewards companies that do this.

Their share price goes up when they lay

off people. To me, it should go down

because they I mean, I guarantee you

when a board considers a public company

or private company considers a layoff

where you're going to hurt people, okay?

You're going to hurt people. They don't

talk about consequence of those people.

It's just it's just so they'll find

another job. How many weeks should we

pay them for? I've never heard ever in

my 50-year career ever heard a human way

of talking about layoffs, downsides, and

rise. But we're taught just one of the

things you do. It's not fun. It's not

pleasant. So my responsibility to our

people is to say my main responsibility

is to make sure you're safe in my care

where we can create economic and human

value in harmony. And when people feel

safe, they will share greater gifts with

you. You will attract greater talent.

There's no downside. Again, some people

think it's just about being nice. Okay?

It's much more profound like parenting

is being nice. Parenting is not being

nice and being a good steward of the

child in your care. leadership is

identical and part of it is having a

safe business model where they can raise

a family, they can count on you and put

their trust in you and have a career

with you. That is a foundational

responsibility and I've never heard that

said before.

>> I think a lot of leaders forget about

the ripples, right? Which is they

understand that, you know, even though

they don't talk about it or think about

it, the the impact it has on people's

lives when they get laid off, they also

forget about the people who didn't lose

their jobs but they watch their friends

get laid off. you know, now, you know,

now fear is injected into the system. Am

I next? You know, and one of the

craziest things I've seen is companies

announce, "We're going to lay off 20,000

people. We're going to do a thousand a

week." Yeah. And you're just like, how

on earth do you think that risk-taking

and entrepreneurship and sticking your

neck out for the greater good is going

to happen? People are going to retreat.

They're going to keep their heads down

because the unbelievable fear that that

I'm next. Not to mention the fact that

it sucks to see your friends get laid

off, you know, for no fault of their

own. It wasn't a meritocracy. Uh, and

you said boards aren't talking about the

impact on the lives of the people they

lay off. And they're also not talking

about how it'll affect the culture for

many, many months uh beyond, if not years.

years.

>> You know, Simon, some people say to me,

how do you justify this investment, this

cost of caring for your people, your

university, your classes?

And I said, I look at him, I say, I

don't need to justify caring. How do you

justify not caring? Okay, because people

really struggle going from using people

to care about people because, you know,

it's it's really it's a major bridge to

cross for most people. But I say

>> I, you know, nobody has to justify

safety. In other words, safety glasses,

hard to shoes, safety. No, no company.

Why? because we have workman's

compensation insurance and we want to

manage the cost of it. So it's a cost.

Okay. So I would say to you we don't

have to justify safety. Why do we have

to justify caring? Because this caring

is the safety of your soul. I don't need

to justify this because you know our

company we've had a 25 year growth in

our share price like 12% compounded for

25 years. So we're trying to prove

>> 12% compounded growth for 20 years in

our share price. Okay. Okay. And your

share price

>> because we have a very technical way of

creating share price that emulates the

market. And so I'd say to you, we have

exceeded almost everybody, you know, for

a long period of time. We take a

long-term view, but we again,

>> so anybody cynical who says no, but

performance, performance, performance.

Okay, fine. What you're demonstrating is

that your uh leadership strategy

outperforms the market. So, if you just

look at the statistics that you've heard

me say that 88% of all people feel they

work for an organization that doesn't

care about them. And if you hear the

statistics, three out of four people are

disengaged in what they're doing. When

you look at the 12,5,200

people work for you and you know these

statistics say that they're doing what

they need to do to keep their job.

They're not giving you their gifts and

you're sending them home damaged because

you were not good stewards of that life.

And that's why I say business could be

the most profound source of good in the

world if we simply knew how to care for

the people. We have a society right now

based on money, power, and position.

Doesn't matter how you get it as long as

you get it legally because then you can

write a check to charity and they'll

have a a banquet to celebrate your

goodness. They won't ask you how you got

your money. They'll celebrate you. And I

say to CEOs around the world, the

greatest act of charity is not the

checks you write. The greatest act of

charity is how you treat the people you

have the privilege of leading.

>> I have CEOs on here uh now and then and

honestly um in general CEOs are the

worst guests uh because it's hard to

have candid conversations with them.

They're very very media trained. They

come in with their talking points. You

know, it doesn't matter what I ask. They

know how to get their point across.

They're going to tell me about their

success. They're going to tell me about

their product. They're going to tell me

about the quality. I mean, I'm sitting

here in one of your factories and not

once have we talked about your product,

what this factory makes, the quality.

Not once have we talked about your

product. And this is completely opposite

than almost every other CEO I talked to.

>> Well, Simon, again, it was a couple

years ago that university organizational

development professors interviewed me

for an hour and a half, normal

interview. At the end of hour and a

half, they said, "We have never talked

to a CEO that never talked about your

product." And I sat back and I said,

"We've been talking about our product

for the last hour and a half. It's our

people." Okay? I'm not going to go to my

grave proud of the machinery we built

because we build great machinery. I'm

going to go to my grave proud of the

For Bob, it always comes back to the

people and the trust he places in those

who give him at least 40 hours a week of

their lives.

>> And there's one story I've been telling

for years about two of those lives,

Jared Nelson and Lance Johnson.

>> It's a story of a big company trusting

someone with a high school education to

spend hundreds of thousands of dollars

to buy a new machine.

>> So, I got to tell you what a treat it is

for me. I mean, we met briefly, you

know, but I've never actually had the

chance to talk to you in depth. I heard

your story and I have been telling your

story from the stage for for literally

years. So, I'm going to tell it. Tell me

if I get the facts right. Okay? Because

this is how I've been telling it,

>> which is bunch of years ago, Barry Way

Miller, where we are, um, one of the

machines is getting old and needs to be

replaced. Traditionally, when a company

needs to replace a machine, somebody in

procurement puts together a budget and

goes and buys a machine in the open

market. That's traditionally how it's

done. Some guy in a suit goes and buys a machine.

machine.

>> But Barry Way Miller did it differently.

They came to the two guys who work on

the machine, which was you two. You're

not accountants.

You're not in procurement. You don't

have any advanced degrees in how to do

this stuff. you just work on the

machine. And they said to you, "We've

got $750,000 budget. Go buy a machine."

And you went out into the marketplace.

You looked at new machines. You looked

at used machines. And where these people

who sell machines are used to people

standing there in a suit and clipboard

talking about the machine. You guys show

up and you're climbing inside the machines.

machines.

>> You end up buying a brand new machine.

You spend $500,000.

The company saved $250,000 and that

machine will never break because it's

your machine. That's the story I've been telling.

telling.

>> Yep. It's really close. Really close.

>> What did I get wrong? So Derek was an

operator that we had. Jared was another

operator. when I had the opportunity to,

you know, given uh given to me to go

purchase a machine, I knew right away

that to get buyin from the operators was

probably going to be the most important

thing on my side as a leader in that

area. So, I went to Jared and Derek and

I basically said, "Guys, this is what we

got to play with as far as a cash

amount. I don't know what we should get.

You guys are the experts on this

matter." So, I I basically used a lot of

responsible freedom for these guys. And

I sort of went, "Well, we'll see how

this goes." They came to work the next

morning and they had advertisement,

flyers, email clippings, everything sent

to me to to to review. And at that

point, I sort of went, you know what,

maybe this won't be as hard as what it

would sound because, you know, in my

life, obviously growing up and raising a

family, you can buy a car, you buy a

house, capital Equipment, like you said,

that's really not anything that would

have been in my realm of I'm going to do

this someday. So, I got Jared and

Dererick involved and they were both uh

great, you know, to work with on this process.

process.

um these were the two that were going to

make or break this product and getting

the buy in with with them guys and

knowing that they didn't want to, you

know, fail. That was that was a success. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> And going back, Derek and I I worked

second shift, Derrick worked first

shifts, you know, so we'd take turns.

He'd go look for stuff during the day

and we'd figure out what we wanted, what

kind of machine we needed, you know,

what we all wanted in that machine. And

then we'd, you know, meet up at the end

of the shift on first shift and we talk

it over and we went from there. and we

did pretty good and we had a lot of

insight from guys that we worked with in

the past, field technicians and stuff

like that. So, they kind of drove us,

you know, in the right direction of what

we wanted and what kind of machine we

needed for capabilities and stuff like

that. So,

>> this is an even better story than I've

been telling because you were assigned

to buy the machine. Y

>> and you went and said, I need help. >> I

>> I

>> you said you know this better than I do.

And so, it's it's not just a story of

giving responsibility. I get to talk to

the person who said who admits >> y

>> y

>> I probably shouldn't make this decision.

Most people don't want to admit that in

a corporate environment for fear that

it's going to make them look bad or hurt

their promotability. But you say I'm

>> not the best qualified person to make

this decision. The best qualified people

to make this decision are the people who

work on the machine

>> every single day.

>> And here you're given threequarters of a

million dollars,

>> right? And I think most companies

wouldn't trust uh and I'll use

traditional language. I know that's not

how we talk here, but a couple of guys

who work on a factory floor.

>> That's exactly it.

>> You know, there's threequarters of a

million dollars go because there's this

ridiculous stupid mentality

>> that somehow you're going to waste the

money and they're going to save the

money when the reality is is you know

what things cost. You know the value.

How many years ago was that when you

bought that machine? I mean, you were a

kid back then.

>> Yeah. 20 some years old in my early 20s, right?

right?

>> Um, we believe it was in 2013 we

purchased that machine.

>> So, that machine was Let's do math real

quickly. So, 2013, 23. So, 12 years ago, >> correct?

>> correct?

>> Right. So, that machine is 12 years old.

How's it doing?

>> It's fine.

>> It's operational and doing everything we

needed to do. And and I think that was

one thing that we were told we need to

be able to produce parts here in

Phillips, Wisconsin. And you know what

would you guys recommend?

>> Had you worked at different companies

before Barry Wayey Miller?

>> Uh when I was in high school. So right

out of high school here straight out of

high school.

>> I worked at a company called Phips

Plating over across the road and then I

came here when I was 19 20 years old.

>> 1920 years old. Amazing. So your only experience

experience

>> of what work is like.

>> It's here.

>> Is here. Y

>> you don't realize how good it is,

>> right? But I do.

>> How do you know?

>> I just know. You know, my brother works

for a couple of companies and I've you

hear what he has to say about work every

day and you come here and it's it's a

different story.

>> How does he describe work?

>> Just a punch click, you know, a time

clock, you know, number on the wall and

go home, go to work, go home, go to

work. So,

>> rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Uh, is he happy?

>> Oh, is >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. He gets by, but

>> he's not happy going to work every day,

you know.

>> Yeah. Had you had had you worked

somewhere else before here?

>> I had part-time jobs before I started

here, but I actually started here five

days out of high school

>> also. So, both of you straight out of

high school. Do you know how do you know

that it's good?

>> This is your own experience only experience.

experience.

>> I know it was good. My dad actually was

a long tenure and team member here. He

had over 25 years. And when I got out of

high school, 18 years old, you know what

you want to do the rest of your life?

Not so much, right? I figured this would

be a good starting point. time went to

school for fabrication, worked here

part-time, and you know, once again, I

wanted to move on and possibly go into

engineering, but I haven't had a reason

to leave yet. And the amount of

opportunities that we've been given here

in Phillips, it doesn't feel like it's

been 30 years because I've learned so

many different parts of the business. I

work with a lot of great people. Um,

family oriented facility and uh I really

enjoy it. My uh my son works here now,

my wife works here, my daughter-in-law

works here. So, Philips is home.

>> So your dad knew what it was like

working here before Barry Waym Miller. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> How would he describe what it was? Like

would he tell you the stories of old?

How did he how did you hear about it? Or

maybe you saw it in your dad.

>> I got to see a little bit of it myself

because I started right before in '95.

So I had about five years of that

experience as well where you'd come to

work and you'd be walking in with a

friend, a co-orker, and that afternoon

you'd see him carrying his lunchbox or

tools out the door because he was no

longer a team member.

>> Just got fired.

>> Just, you know, layoffs, you know, just

just a lot of fluctuation with, you

know, who we had working and how much

our business model was slow or fast.

>> There was always change and that's one

thing. We have a lot of stability.

>> You've been here how many years now?

>> 17. So straight out of high school, been

here 17 years. That's unusual for any in

any job, you know, manufacturing or, you

know, sort of an office job for somebody

to remain in a job these days with any

company for 17 years. It's almost

unheard of. What's the reason you stay?

You know, there's opportunity. There's a

big world out there.

>> Well, with Phillips, I love living here.

Um, like him, I have four children. They

rely on me and I go to bed at night and

I know when I wake up in the morning,

I'm going to have a job to come to every

single day. Um, and not only that with

like um growth opportunity, I've done a

lot here. I've um started be seen back

by the laser. Um took a role here in L3

and then I went to CPD in HR and was our

safety leader here for four years and

now I'm in field service.

>> So you completely changed. >> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Is that unusual in manufacturing? You

know, if somebody starts on a factory

floor, you know, they die on the factory

floor. Is that is that a like what's a

normal manufacturing trajectory in America?

America?

>> I would say normal in America would be

that yes, you're stuck on the floor and

that's where you're going to stay.

>> You get small raises every year hopefully,

hopefully,

>> right? Field service.

>> Field service, which means

>> um where we send our field guys out in

the field to work. I'm actually um

running our PM programs. So we have

>> PM is

>> preventative maintenance.

>> Okay. So we have 116 contracts and we

sell those contracts to our customers

for our techs to come in and maintenance

their machines. So

>> what is your hope for American business

based on what you know based on what

you've seen possible? What's your dream

for American business?

I would like to see obviously the

business booms again and get these

smaller towns back to being bright and

vibrant and and giving hope to the

community to know that stability is here

and and families can can prosper and and

obviously you know some of us have been

lucky enough to find that and stay here.

But there's so much in this area that we

all love and that's the main reason why

we've decided not to go anywhere. We

don't want to lose. We want to keep jobs

here in Phillips.

>> You you've used the word stability. Mhm.

>> quite a quite a lot. Um, and stability

isn't just having a factory in a small

town in America.

>> You're not just simply talking about

bringing businesses to, >> right,

>> right,

>> and opening the factories in these

towns. You're talking about how they're led,

led, >> right?

>> right?

>> What is what is it that you want to see

how the the modern American factory is

led? What do you want it to go from?

What do you want it to go to?

I think the terminology we even use

managers versus leaders, right? We've

we've had opportunities to be led in our

in our jobs and I've been blessed to

have a lot of great leaders. I know what

a manager look like as well because I

experienced that. But if we can get

companies to start leading and growing

and looking at the talent that you have

within and looking at the opportunities

that you can present with this team

member, if they're loyal to a company,

we're going to grow them. We're going to

>> Language matters and Bob knows it. He's

obsessed with making sure his language

perfectly captures his message. At Barry

Waymiller, for example, they don't track

their headcount, they track their heart

count. Randall and I are standing on the

floor where he started as a welder back

in 1988.

Today, he's a production leader. The

former loner now leads teams of people.

The former skeptic is now one of the top

rated professors at Barry Waymiller

University, teaching what he's learned

about putting people first. One of the

things that I love about this place

is, you know, I've been to other

factories before and you've worked at

many places before. They're dirty generally

generally

and there's signs all over the place

that say safety first, safety first,

safety first. And the, you know, the how

many days since we've had an accident is

like four, you know. Uh, here it's

spotless. There's no big signs

everywhere that say safety first.

Where are all the signs and how is it so clean?

clean?

>> You're looking at all the signs.

Everyone in this building is part of the

culture. We're the signs. It's the way

that that we are as team members and

leaders. We support everyone. We support

each other. We help each other. That's

what this culture is about. And as a

leader, my only real job, as I can see

it, is to help my team succeed at all

cost. When somebody feels seen, heard,

understood, feel supported. As you said,

we were all the signs. The reaction is,

I want to keep this place clean, not for

me, but for you. I want to keep this

place safe. I want to keep you safe

because I care about you. And so you

don't need big signs, marketing

campaigns that let's be honest, they

don't work. It's just a way of management

management

>> saying they are prioritizing safety.

We're trying.

>> And what a lot of companies don't

realize is take care of the people. PE

people will take care of each other and

they'll take care of the space they're

working in.

[Music]

>> The biggest lesson from Barry Way Miller

is clear. When we make people feel truly

valued and take care of their lives,

they take care of each other. They show

up, they step up, they outperform, not

because they have to, but because they

want to. And all this in turn takes good

care of the company. This is exactly why

I love Bob Chapman. He is my mentor. He

is my friend and he inspires me. I met

you because you reached out to me um and

and showed me this magical place. I got

to know you and I wrote I ch I decided

to write about uh this amazing place

that you had built in in in a book I

wrote called Leaders Eat Last. You're

sort of the the sort of a central

character in that book, I would argue.

And you and I have become friends over

the years and and and you've been a

mentor to me. I've learned a lot about

how to improve my own leadership uh uh

ability from you. What have you learned

uh even about yourself over these past

15 years?

>> Well, Simon, when you came, we were on

this journey. Yeah.

>> And it was just an just an incremental

journey and you came in and you saw

something that we didn't see. I mean we

thought things were going well but you

you amplified our awareness that we had

been blessed and so what I have learned

because since we first met I've given

hundreds of speeches around the world

the Harvard case study the TEDex talk

you did the book

there's no question as I sit here today

since we first met that some higher

power is using us to show the world the

way he meant it to be where people

genuinely care for each other and I feel

this today I feel this tremendous

calling to take this responsibility of

this message I've been blessed with and

make sure it lives well beyond my time

with voices like yours, your books, your

your talks around the world. So, I feel

this tremendous sense of obligation. Why

would somebody pick a manufacturing

company in America that makes machinery

to show the world what it should be?

Okay. Okay. Why would he pick a

carpenter to, you know, be the father of

uh of our Christ? So I would say to you

I feel a profound and it grows because

the reaction I mean I speak in

healthcare, I speak in the military, I

speak in Congress, I speak in everywhere

I speak I see the hurt in the world and

so I'd say to you what has been

amplified is because you've opened the

door to the world. How could we have a

culture here in a traditional business

that the world said I've never seen

anything like? How is that possible? I'm

just a simple accountant from North St.

lowest one in a manufacturing plant

because we were blessed with a message

that could heal the world. And when I

look today as we talk, the issues we

face in the world. I see business as a

source of destruction creating economic

value but not human value and and I feel

a profound sense of responsibility with

you and our partnership. Change the way

the world sees its its responsibility to

people they have the privilege of

leading. I want to tell the story when I

first went on the tour of all your

factories and I saw this thing and I

remember saying to you, I can no longer

be accused of being a crazy idealist

because what I imagine exists in

reality. I I remember seeing the magic

and then you introduced me to the

culture team that had that was

responsible for these classes and a lot

of what you helping you implement what

you imagined. And after I'd seen this

tour and you knew my opinion of what I'd

seen, I remember they all sitting there

with big smiles thinking I was just

going to say, "You guys are amazing. You

guys are amazing." and they all waiting

with a big smile on their face. And I

remember my first comments to your

culture team

were, um, I think you may be the most

selfish company I've ever met, I said.

And I remember them all shocked. And I

said, oh yeah, I saw what you built and

it is nothing short of remarkable and it

is incredible what you have done for the

lives of back then 3,000 people. I said,

'Me meanwhile there are millions of

people struggling at work and you are

keeping to yourselves something that the

world would benefit from and uh I

remember it was on that day you sort of

said batter up and uh you started on a

speaking circuit to share what you'd

done. You've written your book Everybody

Matters to get the word out there. You

set up uh uh consultancy to help

companies learn what you're doing. you

set up a not for-p profofit to bring the

listening courses to civil servants

around the the country so that they may

benefit from from from the learning. So

you can help policing organizations,

ambulances, nurses, all of you know

firefighters that these are the people

that you're helping with these with

these courses. And it really is it is an

amazing thing. It's it's it's been an

amazing thing for me to watch this small

company that was very insular and doing

something amazing that you you really

are one of the leaders of the the

movement to to to make business a force for good for the health of people, not

for good for the health of people, not just for the prosperity of people. It's

just for the prosperity of people. It's been an amazing journey. Do you want to

been an amazing journey. Do you want to know how I've seen you change since I've

know how I've seen you change since I've met you?

met you? >> I gotten older.

>> I gotten older. >> Well, not not not in spirit. You have

>> Well, not not not in spirit. You have the same amazing energy from when I

the same amazing energy from when I first met you. Um, you are softer. And I

first met you. Um, you are softer. And I don't mean your voice is softer. I mean,

don't mean your voice is softer. I mean, uh, I never I it took years before I saw

uh, I never I it took years before I saw you choke up for the first time because

you choke up for the first time because of what you were saying. And, uh, I see

of what you were saying. And, uh, I see you choke up more often now. It was

you choke up more often now. It was always personal, but it's become

always personal, but it's become really personal. And, and you're more

really personal. And, and you're more willing to wear your emotions on your

willing to wear your emotions on your sleeve more than you used to. Even even

sleeve more than you used to. Even even even the way you used to give me like

even the way you used to give me like you know sort of like good to see you

you know sort of like good to see you Simon sort of like a tap on the shoulder

Simon sort of like a tap on the shoulder you know and then it became like a tap

you know and then it became like a tap on the back and then it became a bro hug

on the back and then it became a bro hug and and now you hug me you know you hug

and and now you hug me you know you hug me with love and I've seen that I felt

me with love and I've seen that I felt that that's going to it's going to make

that that's going to it's going to make me cry.

me cry. Um

Um I wish leaders

I wish leaders took leadership as personally as you do.

took leadership as personally as you do. you know, they they see it as

you know, they they see it as they see it as a rank or position. They

they see it as a rank or position. They see it as as power and authority. Um,

see it as as power and authority. Um, but they don't take it as seriously as

but they don't take it as seriously as raising a child. And you take taking

raising a child. And you take taking care of your people as seriously as

care of your people as seriously as taking care of your children. I mean, it

taking care of your children. I mean, it is not a punchline when you say that

is not a punchline when you say that everybody who works for you is someone's

everybody who works for you is someone's son and someone's daughter. I mean,

son and someone's daughter. I mean, you deeply mean it. and you deeply feel

you deeply mean it. and you deeply feel it.

it. You know, I have the pleasure of getting

You know, I have the pleasure of getting to talk to you when we're off camera.

to talk to you when we're off camera. And what people don't understand is this

And what people don't understand is this preaching that you do when you're on a

preaching that you do when you're on a microphone. This is how you are all the

microphone. This is how you are all the time.

time. >> I mean, like, can't you just have

>> I mean, like, can't you just have dinner?

dinner? >> My wife reminds me of that.

>> My wife reminds me of that. >> Can we just have dinner? Like, I got it.

>> Can we just have dinner? Like, I got it. I got it. I heard it. But this is this

I got it. I heard it. But this is this is it's so ingrained in who you are and

is it's so ingrained in who you are and how personally you take this. Um it's

how personally you take this. Um it's such a source of inspiration. I got to

such a source of inspiration. I got to tell you. Um I know people who turn it

tell you. Um I know people who turn it on and turn it off. And you can turn it

on and turn it off. And you can turn it off. It's it's core to who you are.

off. It's it's core to who you are. >> I always say, Simon, you can retire from

>> I always say, Simon, you can retire from a job, but you cannot retire from a

a job, but you cannot retire from a calling.

calling. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I'm sure you can imagine what it feels

>> I'm sure you can imagine what it feels like when I get in front of crowds all

like when I get in front of crowds all over the world and I see people come to

over the world and I see people come to tears. I see get standing ovations

tears. I see get standing ovations because can you imagine how it feels

because can you imagine how it feels again all the talks I've given in all

again all the talks I've given in all parts of the country to have the most

parts of the country to have the most healing message that people ever heard I

healing message that people ever heard I mean the reaction to our message

mean the reaction to our message universally

universally >> standing in ovation emotions because it

>> standing in ovation emotions because it gives people hope to think that some

gives people hope to think that some higher power selected this kid from

higher power selected this kid from North St. law with an accounting degree.

North St. law with an accounting degree. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> To show the world the way he meant it to

>> To show the world the way he meant it to be is profoundly meaningful. I mean, I

be is profoundly meaningful. I mean, I don't know how I don't how you don't get

don't know how I don't how you don't get emotional when you think I'm carrying a

emotional when you think I'm carrying a message that could heal the world. I

message that could heal the world. I mean, how how do you handle something

mean, how how do you handle something like that without emotion? I mean, you

like that without emotion? I mean, you can't it's not an academic feeling. It

can't it's not an academic feeling. It is right down here. And you can't say

is right down here. And you can't say things about this message when you get

things about this message when you get the feedback. The healing power of this

the feedback. The healing power of this is profound. And when look at the issues

is profound. And when look at the issues we face in this country and the world

we face in this country and the world that I get this exposure to talk to

that I get this exposure to talk to people all over the world and I see the

people all over the world and I see the same reaction. It's a universal truth in

same reaction. It's a universal truth in our world that people simply want to

our world that people simply want to know they matter.

know they matter. >> They simply want to know they matter.

>> They simply want to know they matter. >> The big joke of it all,

>> The big joke of it all, the big joke of it all

the big joke of it all is you were one of the highest

is you were one of the highest performing companies in your category.

performing companies in your category. You outperform the markets. Your people

You outperform the markets. Your people love working here. They work. They

love working here. They work. They people want their children to work here.

people want their children to work here. You have generations

You have generations of people working here. I I I I met uh

of people working here. I I I I met uh uh Lance before. His dad worked here. He

uh Lance before. His dad worked here. He works here. His his kids work here. His

works here. His his kids work here. His his his daughter-in-law works here. His

his his daughter-in-law works here. His wife works here. I mean, and it's there

wife works here. I mean, and it's there are there are other opportunities. There

are there are other opportunities. There are other places to work in in in

are other places to work in in in Phillips. They they want to work here.

Phillips. They they want to work here. They want their kids to work here. Like

They want their kids to work here. Like to have that level of devotion and love.

to have that level of devotion and love. I talked to people. I walked around

I talked to people. I walked around today. We talked to some of your folks

today. We talked to some of your folks who it is a joy for them to go the extra

who it is a joy for them to go the extra mile uh uh for you. It doesn't feel like

mile uh uh for you. It doesn't feel like a burden or a task. And this is what is

a burden or a task. And this is what is so astonishing to me that though you

so astonishing to me that though you don't do it for the business reasons,

don't do it for the business reasons, the connection is so damn obvious. Your

the connection is so damn obvious. Your people are just better people than in

people are just better people than in other companies. They themselves are not

other companies. They themselves are not better but they are given the

better but they are given the opportunity to be their best selves at

opportunity to be their best selves at Barry Wayne Miller and the company and

Barry Wayne Miller and the company and they are the beneficiaries because a

they are the beneficiaries because a profitable company means you can expand

profitable company means you can expand and take more care of your people better

and take more care of your people better care of your people that you can you can

care of your people that you can you can expand the number of classes available.

expand the number of classes available. You can invest in in training and you

You can invest in in training and you can invest in all the nice things

can invest in all the nice things because the business model works and

because the business model works and this is the thing that drives me nuts.

this is the thing that drives me nuts. It drives me nuts that people want us to

It drives me nuts that people want us to give economic reasons why they should do

give economic reasons why they should do this rather than

this rather than >> human reasons.

>> human reasons. >> I mean I mean it's like give me an e

>> I mean I mean it's like give me an e economic reason why I should be good to

economic reason why I should be good to my child

my child >> you know to if I'm good to my child will

>> you know to if I'm good to my child will my child increase their earning

my child increase their earning potential. The good news is that we are

potential. The good news is that we are clearly with your help, your voice in

clearly with your help, your voice in the world, your book, your voice, your P

the world, your book, your voice, your P is the world is is validating that this

is the world is is validating that this is the way to go and we are on a journey

is the way to go and we are on a journey to transform and create a more caring

to transform and create a more caring world where people feel they matter

world where people feel they matter regardless of your role in the company

regardless of your role in the company that you feel you matter and when you do

that you feel you matter and when you do that you see this goodness come out of

that you see this goodness come out of people. Again, I want to make sure you

people. Again, I want to make sure you cannot ask people to care. who can't go

cannot ask people to care. who can't go to a CEO of a major company and say,

to a CEO of a major company and say, "You need to care about your people."

"You need to care about your people." Say, "Sure, I do, but we're going to

Say, "Sure, I do, but we're going to have a layoff next week, but you know, I

have a layoff next week, but you know, I care about them." Okay, but I pay them

care about them." Okay, but I pay them well and they got good. It's it's we

well and they got good. It's it's we have to change the whole perspective of

have to change the whole perspective of our society where we are stewards of the

our society where we are stewards of the people we have the privilege to leave. I

people we have the privilege to leave. I say to executives all the time, the

say to executives all the time, the greatest act of charity is not the

greatest act of charity is not the checks you write to the Cancer Society

checks you write to the Cancer Society or all those other noble causes. The

or all those other noble causes. The greatest act of charity is how you treat

greatest act of charity is how you treat the people you have the privilege of

the people you have the privilege of leading. Yeah,

leading. Yeah, >> that is the greatest. And if we had

>> that is the greatest. And if we had that, we wouldn't need all the charities

that, we wouldn't need all the charities to to fix the brokenness of the world.

to to fix the brokenness of the world. >> You told me a story a bunch of years ago

>> You told me a story a bunch of years ago of uh a wealthy guy who had retired and

of uh a wealthy guy who had retired and he'd made boatloads of cash running a

he'd made boatloads of cash running a very very large business and he came to

very very large business and he came to you for advice on how to be a

you for advice on how to be a philanthropist on how to how to

philanthropist on how to how to distribute that money.

distribute that money. >> Yeah. This is a gentleman in traditional

>> Yeah. This is a gentleman in traditional terms extremely successful had

terms extremely successful had contributed $120 million to his alma

contributed $120 million to his alma mada and had heard me speak and just

mada and had heard me speak and just flew out to talk to me. He was touched

flew out to talk to me. He was touched by my speech. Good Christian man, good

by my speech. Good Christian man, good values, good Midwestern values. And

values, good Midwestern values. And again the what led to that is I said,

again the what led to that is I said, "What are you proud of in your life?"

"What are you proud of in your life?" And he said, "This minority student

And he said, "This minority student athletic scholarship program." I had no

athletic scholarship program." I had no idea of this company. So I just said

idea of this company. So I just said again, "How many people work for your

again, "How many people work for your company?" He said, "100,000." And I

company?" He said, "100,000." And I said, "So, you really care about five or

said, "So, you really care about five or six people you can help with a with a

six people you can help with a with a scholarship and you don't care about the

scholarship and you don't care about the 100,000 people?" And he he virtually

100,000 people?" And he he virtually leaned back in his chair and he said, "I

leaned back in his chair and he said, "I never thought about that." And again the

never thought about that." And again the one other story that amplifies that is I

one other story that amplifies that is I was giving a speech in a church a major

was giving a speech in a church a major church uh to a lunchon event and I did

church uh to a lunchon event and I did as a favor to somebody and a gentleman

as a favor to somebody and a gentleman came up to me running a major

came up to me running a major international organization said I

international organization said I thought my job was to be the market

thought my job was to be the market leader in our industry in the world and

leader in our industry in the world and we achieved that. I thought that was my

we achieved that. I thought that was my job.

job. >> But until I heard you speak,

>> But until I heard you speak, it never occurred to me to care for the

it never occurred to me to care for the 130,000 people in our organization. Then

130,000 people in our organization. Then he added, "You've given me a whole

he added, "You've given me a whole different purpose to my role."

different purpose to my role." >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And and again, we have a society where

>> And and again, we have a society where we celebrate financial success, market

we celebrate financial success, market share gains. We don't and again, we

share gains. We don't and again, we don't look at how you treated people.

don't look at how you treated people. So again, the biggest message then is

So again, the biggest message then is the way we treat people affects the way

the way we treat people affects the way they go home and live. If we're worried

they go home and live. If we're worried about kids today, what's wrong with kids

about kids today, what's wrong with kids today? Where do they come from? They

today? Where do they come from? They come from our families. Okay. What's

come from our families. Okay. What's wrong with their families? Parents come

wrong with their families? Parents come home from work.

home from work. Exhausted.

Exhausted. Okay. TGIF. Thank God it's Friday. Get

Okay. TGIF. Thank God it's Friday. Get out of that place. I imagine a day with

out of that place. I imagine a day with the work we're doing together. We're

the work we're doing together. We're going to go to TGIM. Thank goodness it's

going to go to TGIM. Thank goodness it's money. get away from the kids, the

money. get away from the kids, the spouse, and be back to a place where I

spouse, and be back to a place where I really enjoy being a part of the team.

really enjoy being a part of the team. So, I would say to you, the vision that

So, I would say to you, the vision that we've been working on for 13 years, we

we've been working on for 13 years, we have made tremendous progress in

have made tremendous progress in bringing this message to the world and

bringing this message to the world and to make sure that it will not die with

to make sure that it will not die with me, that it will live on well beyond our

me, that it will live on well beyond our time. With your work, your book, your

time. With your work, your book, your talks, and our and our new book,

talks, and our and our new book, Everybody Matters, a new edition, we

Everybody Matters, a new edition, we have a chance to shape the world that

have a chance to shape the world that desperately is looking for hope right

desperately is looking for hope right now. Well, I promised you I sent you an

now. Well, I promised you I sent you an email years ago.

email years ago. >> I know. It's framed in my office.

>> I know. It's framed in my office. >> I know. I know. I I I promised you years

>> I know. I know. I I I promised you years ago in an email I sent you that uh that

ago in an email I sent you that uh that I I will carry your torch

for all the years I have left. And then I'll pass it on to the next person.

I'll pass it on to the next person. Thank you for your stewardship.

I love you. I really do.

I really do. I'm so grateful for that crazy 1-hour

I'm so grateful for that crazy 1-hour lunch that became a three-hour lunch and

lunch that became a three-hour lunch and this crazy adventure you've taken me on,

this crazy adventure you've taken me on, you know,

you know, because uh we've said it a thousand

because uh we've said it a thousand times to each other. We validate each

times to each other. We validate each other's work. you know, I validated your

other's work. you know, I validated your work by saying, you know, in the

work by saying, you know, in the marketplace in the in sort of in in my

marketplace in the in sort of in in my work

work that's the right way. You know, I know I

that's the right way. You know, I know I validated your your theories and your

validated your your theories and your ideas at scale and you validated my work

ideas at scale and you validated my work because it's I'm just an idiot idealist

because it's I'm just an idiot idealist who writes about these what could happen

who writes about these what could happen and uh you made it real. This is a very

and uh you made it real. This is a very large company. Make no mistake of it.

large company. Make no mistake of it. This is thousands and thousands of

This is thousands and thousands of employees, billions of dollars worth of

employees, billions of dollars worth of revenue, international global company. I

revenue, international global company. I mean, this is not some little mom and

mean, this is not some little mom and pop corner store that takes care of its

pop corner store that takes care of its people. You know, this is this is a

people. You know, this is this is a large operation at scale. And you prove

large operation at scale. And you prove that not only are the people happier and

that not only are the people happier and their families are happier and their

their families are happier and their communities are happier, but it is a

communities are happier, but it is a phenomenal recipe for prosperity.

phenomenal recipe for prosperity. Healthy people make for prosperous

Healthy people make for prosperous companies and healthy healthy people

companies and healthy healthy people make for prosperous nations. Um Bob,

make for prosperous nations. Um Bob, thank you for being a light, a beacon.

thank you for being a light, a beacon. Thank you for being who you are. You

Thank you for being who you are. You know, we should probably turn it off

know, we should probably turn it off right now before we both just

right now before we both just blubber fest.

blubber fest. >> Uh but uh yeah, I love what you're

>> Uh but uh yeah, I love what you're doing. You're what you I I I see your

doing. You're what you I I I see your soul when you talk because we've touched

soul when you talk because we've touched your soul. Not your mind, your soul.

your soul. Not your mind, your soul. This is the way the world was meant to

This is the way the world was meant to be. And when you see it,

be. And when you see it, >> yeah,

>> yeah, >> you know that this is the way it was

>> you know that this is the way it was meant to be. That we learn to care for

meant to be. That we learn to care for each other.

each other. >> Amen.

>> Amen. >> Amen.

>> Amen. >> Thank you.

>> A bit of optimism is a production of the Optimism Company. Lovingly produced by

Optimism Company. Lovingly produced by our team, Lindseay Garbinius, Phoebe

our team, Lindseay Garbinius, Phoebe Bradford, and Devin Johnson. Subscribe

Bradford, and Devin Johnson. Subscribe wherever you enjoy listening to

wherever you enjoy listening to podcasts. And if you want even more cool

podcasts. And if you want even more cool stuff, visit simonscynic.com.

stuff, visit simonscynic.com. Thanks for listening. Take care of

Thanks for listening. Take care of yourself. Take care of each other.

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The Man Who Proved Me Right with CEO Bob Chapman and the Barry-Wehmiller Team | A Bit of Optimism