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#AEBF2025 | Day 3 - Grid-Scale Energy Storage Technology | ASEAN Centre for Energy | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: #AEBF2025 | Day 3 - Grid-Scale Energy Storage Technology
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Summary
Core Theme
The discussion highlights the critical and evolving role of energy storage, encompassing both short-duration (battery) and long-duration (pumped hydro) solutions, in enabling rural electrification, integrating variable renewables, enhancing grid stability, and facilitating regional energy interconnection across Southeast Asia.
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ly different from the kind of discussion
that we have in term of how to how
storage right be integrated to a big
grid you know and help help the
operation of the brick grid. So we're
going to talk about ruralification. Uh
the storage come in is because um uh
this a lot of the rural villages are
very far away from the main grid right.
So you need to have some sort of storage
solution. Uh mostly will be solar based
all those kind of energy uh resource.
Then you need to be able to store it so
that you can use electricity at night.
So today um or maybe I should today I
happy to say that we are 99.9 or five 95%
95%
in term of uh coverage in Sarowak. Of
course there's a few more uh villages
and there are new villages and homes
being built everywhere all the time. So
it's kind of chasing know going around
and the last few bits. So anyway we have
we have looked at um uh there are six
six over thousand villages spread out
throughout Sawa and half of it are not
accessible by road then no it's about 10
years ago. So we started uh some project
in term of looking at how's the solar
battery solution uh can can help to help
help us to improve the coverage. Okay.
So um we we we look at the battery
system it's not so much what we learn is
not so much in chasing the technologies.
Yeah. Um because for lur edification the
budget is never enough and you need to
see how you can stretch it to reach as
many people as possible right so you
look at what is a practical solution and
a lot of places where that you just
simply you know can't bring or or have a
have a truck to drive there per say so
so what what technology do you use in
term of be able to you know put a put a
battery or put a system on somebody back
and then they start working for hours to
reach the site and then you by by just
having the hands be able to install the
system. Yeah. So we we come up with
couple of design and we actually have
decided to use the geot type the acid
battery because little maintenance you
know and we also um another reason for
doing that is we have a long longerterm
plan in term of how to provide coverage
to the whole of the state of SA because
we know the roads will come in we know
the the line will be able know one day
come in. So we look at which are the
villages they are kind of closer 10 20
kilometer from away from the grid that
road is uh there's a no not kind of a
signal or noise that road's going to be
built soon then so we only need kind of
this storage for about six years
something five six years so somehow the
this acid battery uh although it's kind
of old tech but it work for us and fit
into our plan yeah so today we have I
don't know 550 to 600 system like that
anything from 20 kilowatt up to 1
megawatt they are big and more no some
are hybrid system. So uh there are
lithium ions solution as well because we
want to explore especially for the
bigger system. Some some places they a
bit more remote. We know that we we need
the system at least for another 10 years
or so. So so we put those in. Yeah. So
there was kind of a more like looking
for practical solution and then you walk
around the whole issues of getting
community buy in. Of course the funding
side from the government and one thing
they always forgot about is we need we
need a group of contractors that is able
to go out procure the right equipment
have the expertise to install and to
maintain and operate in the long term
you know so we have we have to set up
and look at the holistic in and then
find the right solution to do it. So
today it's still running uh finger
crossed still running but we have a
quite ongoing maintenance program and
replacement program as well and as we do
those replacement we also look at what
are the technology is providing us today
there's a lot of improvement in in term
of know different type of batteries now
so we're looking at how to as we change
over what do we what do we use no yeah
and that go hand in hand with our grid
expansion plan as well okay I hope this
quick summaries of uh how how we use uh
storage to reach one of our goal which
is provide electricity for everyone.
>> Yeah. I mean um as uh I mean with
renewables uh we are also able to
democratize the availability of
electricity uh you know right up to the
last mile. uh energy access is a is a
big thing and and storage there has it's
it's like the beginning point of the
application of storage and you could
achieve mega scale which we'll talk
about later today and and a whole range
of things I mean uh storage is not just
a buffering of capacity as we all know
it's got a lot more sophisticated
applications which are being recognized
ized um as as substitutes uh for
managing transmission and distribution
issues. Uh and that also needs uh a lot
of work on the policy side etc. So um
I'm sure um Agora who's doing a lot of
work on that will be able to kind of
walk us through based on their research
and the highlights on the importance of
this short duration storage um for for
integrating uh variable renewable energy
um into the grids. Uh maybe uh Dr.
Superwan can share the work that Agura
has been doing on that.
>> Sure. um in the area of scaling up
battery energy storage uh deployment in
countries the first the very first thing
that is needed is to have the regulatory
clarity most of the countries in Asen um
we don't have the um well regulatory
framework for battery energy storage yet
like there's no um definition of the
clear law of battery storage in the
country whether battery storage would
provide by generation or road or could
be a capacity basis. Uh that for example
some country could use battery storage
to provide a firm capacity during the
peak time. There's also the role of
storage as to provide the energy chips
uh energy shifting uh temporary to
reduce curtailment in some times. So
that's the need um in terms of
regulatory framework to clearly set um
the roles of the battery energy storage
and also to provide the market access
for um battery storage into the power
market. uh along the way there's also
the need to deal with about the
permitting the licensing and also what
what could be the roles of uh market
rules for the m uh for the battery
storage to to participate um in the the
in in the power market. So I think the
first um things first step for the
country to scale up or to deploy BSS is
to ensure that we have uh the country
develop legality framework for for this
So and and now let's uh let's look at
what uh Philip has to say because
Mdonald has actually advised uh several
large scale uh battery projects across
the world and I think more recently
something in our neighborhood here. Um
and and there are several technical and
commercial factors to be taken into
consideration assuming that the policies
part of it has been sorted out. Um and
and these would determine uh whether a
battery best project is bankable
um and and replicable across the region.
So uh Phil over to you uh based on the
lessons learned from recent deployments
of best in the region. Um you can share.
>> Yeah, thank you. And I and I I have some
slides. This slide's been up for a
while. Sorry. Um but we're um we're
working on uh renewables, energy
storage, uh transmission um across the
world and very strong focus in Asia. So
far the battery capacity that's gone in
has a lot of it's been up in Japan,
Taiwan, Korea for example. Um Japan for
a long time had a weak grid in Hokkaido
and so anytime any new renewables went
in, they wanted to control the ramp
rate, so how fast the generation could
go up or down. Um and then there's
ancillary services markets for uh
helping control grid stability. So that
that's what's happened so far. But
that's changing fast and I've got a case
study I want to share on that. Um and
this the change is driven by this
massive reduction in costs both for
solar and battery. You see on the screen
here in the last 18 months battery
prices delivered installed battery
prices have come down by more than 50%.
In some markets we're seeing less than
$100 per kilowatt hour. um which is
incredible change and that's making
applications possible that weren't there
before. We talk about kind of rights law
this virtuous circle of more deployment
price reductions and very steep curves
for that in both solar and battery.
Um just building on what how superwan
introduced you know the concept that I'm
going to be talking about here is not
ancillary services it's um time shifting
so instead of taking all of that solar
um as it comes through the daytime we
store it and we uh dispatch that energy
to the grid at night. And and this is an
example from a report by Ember
which is going a little bit beyond what
is typical now to 24-hour solar
generation. This isn't actually economic
in most places yet except off-rid. But
um you know 18 months ago no one would
have said midmarit was economic and it
already has proven so. So we've got a
plan for this eventuality.
And then this is uh based on US prices
um where battery prices were at um
actually about a year ago. So, not the
latest is showing that um base load
solar battery could be competitive with
coal and mid-mmerit solar battery could
be competitive with gas. That's
obviously going to depend on exactly
where you install it. Coal prices, gas
prices, solar irradiance,
but this isn't hypothetical. We have a
project in our region, Terra Solar. Um,
so it's 3.5 gawatt of solar with 4.5
gatt hours of battery to create a firm
dispatch of 850 megawatt. So this
originally responded to a tender um for
midmerit gas. So it replicates the um
requirements of a thermal plant. It it
complied with all of the grid codes and
procurement requirements for a thermal
plant. So um it's not necessarily the
sweet spot for solar and battery, but it
can do it and it did it cost
effectively. So it was competitive with
coal and gas. Um I think um there's
obviously challenges deploying at such a
large scale. 160 megawatts per month has
not been done outside of home
territories for these lead contractors
before. So it's actually two contractors
that are splitting the projects between
Energy China and Power China. Um the
owners are expecting a workforce up to
20,000 people on site. Not everyone
could deploy that workforce. That that
could be challenging in some places. Um
uh the transport logistics of getting
this many containers to site in this
time were a challenge. They had to look
at seven ports around Lucon and zoomed
in on two. Um and that's before we talk
about the the more technical depth of
you know how we firm our dispatch cost
effectively. Um interestingly this was
purely financed by Philippine banks.
$2.7 billion of of um of project finance
from the Philippine lenders which closed
in April this year. uh as of June it was
the largest solar plant in the
Philippines. So it had 700 megawatts and
um is continuing to to grow so far on
schedule on a very aggressive schedule.
So I think um you know this is a really
interesting case study of what's
possible. Um it's a it's a huge land
area but we're seeing the same um
concept deployed for the Rio Island
projects that will bring uh power into
Singapore from the Indonesian islands.
Um and those would again be gigascale
solar, gigascale battery with a subc
cable. Very similar concept, similar
kind of firming uh to a mid-marit uh
dispatch. And so this um this is a new
new tool, right? This didn't exist as a
as an economic possibility year ago. Uh
right now it's competitive. This is 14
hours a day dispatch um on weekdays um
50% average through the year. that range
is going to keep extending as battery
prices keep coming down and you know we
talk about um the energy transition
mechanism what's going to replace coal
we now have a much easier answer is um
as or one answer not the only answer one
answer so so this is only one
application of batteries but I think an
important one that's really you know
Yeah, this is actually you know we
started with off-grid u rural
electrification batteries to real grid
scale uh not just as buffering but firm
dispatch so so the whole range of
coverage and potential that is emerging
with storage um it's becoming a reality
I think this will need uh the
governments and the private developers
to work more closely together this is a
very good example the tender was for a
gas plant and the private developer
decided to bid in with a with a solar
project. This must have taken a lot of
coordination. Um so so what would it
take? I think as a let's start with Dr.
Shen as a developer. What would it take
in terms of co you know the government
and private sector collaboration to move
you know these kind of projects. I mean
you guys are also moving some mountains
out there in Sarowak energy. So maybe
Dr. if we can start with you and maybe
every one of you you are working with
governments directly um so each one of
you can share your thoughts on that.
>> Okay. Um I think we still very much in
the early days or come to storage. Um
but in the S context we we we have large
hydro so hydro will reser it is a
storage no so we have experience with
that. So we and with the topology for
hydro there is potential for storage as
well in term of managing the water not
the availability of water whether it's
open loop or cross loop and whichever
way. So we we we are prospecting and uh
we found very good sites. So we are
looking to the design and looking at the
economics of having it having them now.
But more importantly I think um we also
need to learn how to make use of them in
the efficient way. Okay. So in fact what
we what we're doing now we working with
a group of consultants uh supported by
the Australian government to be exact P4
one of the P4 studies. Uh some of my
team here actually involved in that. Um
we we try to learn how energy storage
system whether it's short duration or
long duration can know can add values to
the way we operate the grid and in
consideration of the generation mix that
we have because we have in ter capacity
we 60% for large hydrop power uh we
adding solar by the end of this decade
probably uh what I say 15% or so will be
from solar you know and the race are gas
and coal more gas than coal
um gas are predominantly CGT some
flexibility but not that that much and
and and and the other factor is also our
grid have is quite unique because two3
of our demand go to industrial customer
so our lot factor is 90 over% so it's
kind of flat so it kind of different
challenges and so we need to understand
how our grid behave and how the storage
can come in no into the system yeah so
earlier this year we commissioned a 60
megawatt or 60c or actually 80 something
megawatt hour of BSS. Um initially we
will put it in to provide spinning
reserve so that we can optimize the
operation of one of our new um gas tiine
uh CGT.
But at the end when the operators start
using it that hey we can use it more.
Now we are able to uh optimize it the
grid even further because at times of
peak lot we still have to turn on some
diesel generation and having added this
battery we we see that we can avoid that
all I think almost completely now. So so
my CFO very happy because we reducing
the diesel uh price. So I think um
storage is such a wonderful tools that
uh once you put it in you start to learn
more and you start to know find uh new
application that you can you can make
use of that. So in ter of how to work
with um government in ter of this um we
are lucky in the sense that our
political leaders uh are very much eye
to eye in ter journey towards energy
transition renewable energy development
hydropower development and they also
have cash on into the potential of palm
storage. So they're very supportive of
us. So we're working with them in term
of uh um not just having the policy in
term of the process to GI but uh also in
term of um opening up the opportunity
for private sector to come in and
basically to to build the thing together
rather than we have to build everything
ourself right either from a technology
provider equipment provider or some
investor uh still early days we haven't
wor out the all the mechanism or how to
uh get everyone involved but uh it's
exciting time uh We walk through it and
if there's anyone that is know in this
room here they are interested to be be
involved or or in your portfolio have
some sort of investment in this system.
Yeah. We very welcome everyone to come
on board and come and talk to us you
know. Yeah. So so not much of an answer
in ter experience we haven't really
journey through it. Um but we do have
certain outlook in term of uh looking at
what happened in Australia what happened
in other part of the world. uh how how
uh where are the potential how we can
you know unlock all these potential and
we talk about transition Asian power
grid I think we see that storage will be
something that is we need to have in our
systems yeah um may not be immediately
but maybe in five 10 years time I think
and and the process and the mechanism
had to be put in place right because
only with that then you have security
you have assurance then the financing
will come along and then the project can
Yeah, maybe we would like to add that
Dr. mentioned that the government has an
important role to open the market access
for example having like did an auction
that Philip joy right so um the
government has an important role to
provide um create an environment where
the private sector can have the
predictable revenue streams of the
project whether it's through um the
procurement programs like auctions for
example and also provide regulatory um
framework as I mentioned that it would
be important
um to ensure the the stable uh
investment for the private sector. At
the same time, the private sector they
bring in expertise in technologies uh in
finance and in project execution. So the
private sectors can also propose new
business models, right? And also can
prove the viable like projects
demonstrate the new uh availability of
the project through pilot. And of course
that gonna happen because the government
also need to open the market access for
for those new uh business model and
innovation um to happen as well. So we
need collaboration and effort from both
government side and also from the
>> So so yeah I mean uh like Dr. Shen said
once the once Sarowak energy had the
storage they realized that they could
put it to different uses. Um so given an
asset all of us want to make the best
use of that asset and and best actually
provides a number of the same asset can
do a lot of things
um and and that's where the markets and
the policy part of it comes into play
and if we have the strong support from
the government and and the market
mechanisms I think Philippines is
evolving pretty rapidly uh in that
direction uh to to get better asset
utilization um and hence making this
more attractive. Um so so let's kind of
move from short duration storage to long
duration storage now because that's
another um need of the hour as we see.
So um I think again we would start with
the technology part with Philip uh
because they have again worked on very
innovative pumped hydro storage um in
several places globally.
So there's a lot of advancement on the
technology and approaches to this. So
maybe Philillips can Philip can actually
share with us uh on the long duration
storage uh experiences. Yeah. And to to
make the contrast here, the project we
just talked about, Terraas Solar, right?
It's it doesn't really have to worry
about seasonal changes in solar
resource. The solar resource is pretty
consistent throughout the year. So, it's
mostly just transferring solar from
daytime to nighttime. Um it's kind of
intraday storage. Whereas, um if we want
to go longer than that, BA batteries are
not currently the right solution, right?
and and um pump storage hydro um has I
mean in some ways there's some
innovations in some ways it's the most
proven storage technology there is it's
been deployed um for over a century um
you know and the fundamentals haven't
changed you know things things have
improved tunneling techniques have
improved um uh the turbines themselves
the reversible turbines have improved um
but but fundamentally it's a very proven
technology um maybe another innovation
though is that um and maybe I'll say
first pump storage is also not new to
the region you know uh there's there's a
number of schemes already in the region
there's a number of new schemes
announced as we can see on on the screen
so this is something where there's
already a lot of interest um at the at
the gigawatt scale in many cases
um you know but there's been a real
renaissance and a lot of projects moving
forward quite fast down in Australia
because they had a very high um
renewables penetration so Um and
you know uh in East Asia there's
actually um um as much pump storage
capacity planned or potentially more
than conventional hydrobat at this point.
point.
Um and some of that can be off river. It
doesn't have to be on a water course. um
it can actually just make use of the
existing topography to connect um uh two
areas that are not on a water course um
to have an upper reservoir and a lower
reservoir that you can pump water
between. This is a map from the
Australian National University of
potential sites of different classes.
But the main takeaway from this is
Um I'm going to talk about one specific
project which is based at a um a former
gold mine in in Australia um up in up in Queensland.
Queensland.
It's a pump storage hydro project. It's
also a renewable energy hub.
So this was um the um Kidston um gold
mining pits that had filled up with
water naturally um before it was
envisioned to become a pump storage scheme.
scheme.
And this is what it looks like. Um, you
know, some of this is already built,
some of it's under construction. Um, you
have one of the pits becoming a lower
reservoir, one of the pits becoming the
upper reservoir, a solar farm and and a
wind farm um, which are combining to um,
mainly uh, the pump storage is actually
mainly about ancillary services rather
than time shifting, but does have the
storage capacity to um, provide that
So, um, some of the stats. Um, it's 250
megawatt, 2,000 megawatt hours. So, it's
designed for 8 hours of storage. You
could design for longer. Um, you could
store for longer. Um, it's the first
pumped hydro project in Australia um for
40 years. Um, u, it's low capex because
you're using the existing um, mining
pits. Um, there may be opportunities to
use existing transmission structure.
infrastructure, existing water rights,
existing access roads. Um there's likely
to or because it's brownfield, the the
consenting and the environmental impact
is generally going to be much less. So
um it's a 30-month uh construction time
frame for an 80-year time uh lifespan.
Um and it has two reversible turbines
which um have less than a 30 second
startup time. And there's variable speed
options there which is one of the
innovations um alongside using these
Um so some of the key takeaways on this
it's a mature technology um that has a
variety of different revenue streams um
related to storage. Um this can be quite
a modular design so it can be rolled out
in multiple locations in a very similar
way. Um uh there's a lot of room for
optimizing the cost um um through
deploying the experience of the more
recent schemes that have been built. And
just to highlight again that actually
most of the revenues are coming from
ancillary services so supporting the
So yeah, so the technology exists um as
we have seen and the potential that was
mapped by the Australian university
across the region shows that there is
potential and let's see how um Dr.
Shen's team in Sarowak energy is looking
at this potential and looking to explore
this especially you know with the grand
plans of the APG this kind of uh
infrastructure will become very very
useful. So what's uh Saravak Energy
doing on this? There's potential,
there's technology, there's a market.
Now what?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um
in the in a way um you know we have as a
utility we have a conventional way of
doing generation planning, transmission
planning and one of the key is reserve
margin. How much reserve you going to
have to ensure the energy security and
reliability of the system. Right now
once you add a battery how how would
that affect that system? How how do you
put into the numbers in term of looking
at the system security? So you add
complexity into how do you model it? So
essentially what I mean is that we need
to be able to know how to have tools
like this you know um short duration
which is come from B battery system or
pump storage potential as a long-term uh
potential to develop. How would we how
we add to the house system? how how do
we consider them as part of our in in
our planning you know as we look into
our whether uh medium-term or long-term
time horizons. Yeah. So so we look at
this all these potential and try to uh
more sophisticated modeling in term of
how to be able to uh deploy this. I mean
one thing that we have to uh take
consious is that um storage doesn't add
new energy into the system. Sorry just
you need to store it you need you need
to charge it first kind of thing right
and then discharge it so it's useful for
you to know sh it know between when the
supply is available when the demand is
required right you know that kind of
thing yeah so we need to find find that
but and we we are we're learning new
surprises I should say that I admit that
our study is still ongoing uh we
learning new surprises we we find that
yeah adding battery you can help you to
actually make better use of whatever
capacity that you have in the system so
So for us in um maybe to to to answer uh
to give a kind of quick answer is we're
looking for low hanging fruits you know
like what Philip mentioned that project
because there was existing go you know
so you're looking at low hanging fruit
where you can uh find find solution that
uh the cost can be a bit lower right and
then you can put out a system that you
can prove the concept and prove that it
works because you need to show how it
works eventually right and then that
will then lead on to bigger and other
projects and other potential that we can
look into in the future. So at the
moment the team is looking for um how we
how our grid is going to use energy
storage whether short-term or long-term.
In fact we are finding we need battery
storage about 4 hours that seem to fit
our the the demand profile that we have
and the different generation mix that we
have. It help us to be able to make
better use of whatever uh hydro uh and
gas particularly capacity that we
already have in the system. In other
word log to meet the log growth instead
of putting out another gas turbine we
can put battery still maintain the same
energy security and resistant
reliability. So we're learning that.
Yeah. So that they that you know the the
storage become another avenue for us to
expand our grid basically. Yeah. So we
need to uh add that into the model. I
think people that developing this uh
analysis system or modeling software uh
also becoming more sophisticated adding
this thing in. And if you put on top of
it the the Assean dream of having a
integrated grid APG that is add another
level of complexity into it. How do you
plan between different jurisdiction? How
do you plan their planting out and where
the opportunity exceeds for system like
that right to take advantage take
advantage of the the availability you
know the the difference the imbalances
between the supply and demand situation.
I see. Yeah. So I don't have exact
answer to that but this is what we are
working on. uh I think uh we getting
clarity as we as we go uh I think I
think over the next five years or so uh
we will I'm quite confident that we will
be uh making some strong decision in
term of further battery and uh no
looking at some of the make serious
decision on some of the pump storage
hydro yeah yeah also not to say that not
to forget to mention that we are looking
at building new hydro again because we
need our demand is growing right so we
we thinking of how much of the new hydro
how much is will the pump storage,
right? As well as the gas and then the
the battery system as well. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And and as you were mentioning
earlier on on our chat that this region
is becoming more wet, there's expected
more precipitation. So I think a
combination of hydro plus pumped hydro
might be a good solution.
>> Uh which which can also act as a buffer
for other types of renewables. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. So it's it's a great uh so yeah
the audience um if you have uh any
questions uh because this is a real hot
topic um on on storage both short and
long duration. Um while we get to one
more question to discuss if you have any
questions at the top of your mind for
the panelists uh please feel free to
raise your hands and uh we'll send the
I think the model is kind of obvious
option uh when we don't have a
liberalized market now the easiest thing
that to get to and get get things
started uh in S we have been always been
doing everything oursel I think it's not
that because we don't like to work with
anyone per say but it's kind of is there
a protype for other investor to come in
then we need to work out the appropriate
remuneration remuneration kind of
mechanism so that that you know they
will cover whatever you need to get the
project off across the line. Yeah. So we
open to that as well. So uh as I
mentioned we have one battery system. So
I think we we are looking seriously to
have a second one and looking at some
location closer to the within the city
help us to reduce the um distribution
system constraint things like that. Um
then we also looking at is there uh
appetite from the private sector in term
of uh no invest in that and then we will
work out some sort of mechanism to make
sure the project can get the finance
necessary financing can able to do it uh
we kind of having a open mind that we
need that we think that we don't we
don't have to do everything oursel I
think we there are different way
different model to do it out there and
maybe I should say that I don't think we
need to actually transform the entire
way or how we uh manage the system
whether in the the technical s or in the
know commercial s in order to have
system like this I think there's always
a possibility to you know uh work out an
arrangement that is a win-win from both
side and then the the project will go
ahead you know yeah sure
maybe just to add um so clearly if there
is an ancillary services market it's
much more flexible about how you invest
in one of these but just taking the case
of uh India Yeah, there there's a
there's a dispensation where if you're a
big industry user and you have power
generation located elsewhere in the
country, you can get concessions on how
you wheel through the grid. Right? So,
we have clients that have big portfolios
of solar and wind and combine it with
pump storage hydro to just give a an
overall effectively a capacity payment,
an overall aggregate payment for that
portfolio. And so, the the pump storage
hydro in that sense is is not making its
money through ancillary services. it's
making its money through um its value in
firming the renewables. And I think um
if we think about the uh the EMA, the
Singapore Energy Market Authority call
for renewable energy imports, the the
project that was um given conditional
award coming down from Cambodia to
Singapore. The concept there was very
much a blend of um run of river hydro
and and pump storage hydro which would
would be a similar concept, right? So
even without ancillary services markets
clearly it's more flexible and there's
more options there but there's there's
>> Yeah. I mean in in in markets like
Australia or in the US also um initially
most of the storage systems were for
capacity firming but as the markets
opened up calling for ancillary services
they the same asset actually started
making more money from from ancillary
services and that's definitely um an an
upside that that we could look at. I
mean they are already using some of
their storageages as spinning reserve as
as Dr. mentioned, right? So, so it's
it's a flexible asset. You can do a
number of things with it. Um, yeah, and
but but for all of that, uh, scaling up
and collaboration across the region,
especially for scaling grids, uh, grids
scale storage. Um, this will require
tremendous amount of coordination and
planning, especially if we want to have
all this flexibility
um, of use. Um so at both the national
level and of course after APG we
probably have more at the regional level
as well but but what should be the
countries doing to kind of um you know
make best use of this I mean Dr. Superan
if um you you've been talking to the
countries and you know motivating them
what are you telling them
>> usually um it actually start with um we
should the country should consider to
integrate storage as part of their
national power development plan. By that
way they can uh the country can set the
target for grid scale utility storage
project or pump hydro uh started
project. um by setting the C the the
long-term target that would provide the
investment signals for the private
sector as well that there's the
long-term um long-term opportunities to
invest in BSS projects in in those
countries. So once the government
incorporate this um um storage in the
national energy plan and set the
long-term targets, the government can
also consider um implementing the
transparent procurement mechanisms where
they can provide policy incentives for
specific projects. For example, I think
um in the Philippines, they provide the
uh tariff incentives um for the project
that that would be preferential tariffs
for the projects that include storage
for renewable project that include
storage in the in the green energy
auction program. And we see example from
Malaysia as well that as part of the
corporate renewable supply scheme
there's also the the reduction of
billing charge um like from 45 um cents
per kilowatt hour to 25 cents such a
huge reduction of billing charge for the
project that also include or collocated
with BS or battery energy storage
system. So um the government can also
provide such kind of policy incentives
that renovate or um provide revenue um
streams uh or cost saving for for for
the project. We could also see um
examples of market based uh incentives
as well for like Philippine also allow
um the the the private sector to also
join the NCL market. um that that also
one incentives and we may also see some
like interesting uh model from from
China as well that they have the shared
energy storage model that allow the
private sector to lease capacity to
different um comp to different projects.
Um and I think also one of the main
procurement mechanism is the evolution
of the auction design that could also
incorporate um some of the design. Um
for example, open for high bit auction
that allow for um the firm to have in to
incent incentivize the firm to also
include battery storage to provide firm
capacity as a requirement in the auction
or in countries like Indonesia they put
the local content requirement um in the
auction eligibility requirement uh with
the aim that to develop the battery
manufacturing um industries in the
country. So there are so many um policy
angles that the government could support
both in terms of providing uh incentives
in terms of renumeration and also
provide um rules some rules to also
ensure that the the the implementation
of the battery storage would help with
the great reliability or even help build
the local um new industry or battery
manufacturing industry in in that
country. Yeah. So there so u many roles
that the policy could play to scaling up
this battery storage.
>> What about integrated planning? I mean
one is the policy but I think there
there's a huge role for integrated
planning um as well right? >> Yeah
>> Yeah
>> to to kind of identify
um where and how batteries have to be
used. This was something which uh in the
panel discussion uh Dr. Dr. Titipon from
EGAT did mention that EGAT in Thailand
is now um taking u you know identifying
those nodes where they should be
locating storage as part of the
transmission planning um and and
distribution planning and to your point
I think in we are seeing uh battery
storage in several PDPs that are now
coming out like Vietnam's PDP did have
clearly uh storage in it Cambodia has
storage in it so PDPs are coming out
with storage clearly mentioned not just
colloccated best which used to be
earlier the case right so so yeah so
that brings us I mean on the note that
uh again um APG is the crown jewel uh
the the energy sector in uh has has
actually demonstrated significant
leadership um in Azan uh on Azan
cooperation um what do you think on the
storage side we could kind of get
together um everybody in Azan could get
together to drive this further. Philip
from a technology point of view,
standards etc. see the need for a
So whereas the APG is an inherently
collaborative effort and requires a lot
of um work across borders, um I think a
lot of the work on the battery side can
be done under a national policy
framework and there's plenty of good
precedents out there to choose from as
to how to structure that. Um I think
pump storage hydro and longduration
storage is maybe an exception where I
see a really strong synergy with the
ASEAN grid. There's an opportunity to
firm the flows through those cables. you
know, you want to be using the cable's
capacity as much as possible. You don't
want to um so therefore, you know, um if
you're exporting um power from the
Mikong um or from Borneo, um the
opportunity to use pump storage hydro to
firm those and and that being part of
that overall master plan, I think is is
an important scenario to consider. Um
probably one of several scenarios. Um
again I I don't see um in that
particular case a lot of regulatory
architecture needed at the the regional
level but certainly there's a lot of
opportunity for best practice sharing
and for uh uh joint scenario planning on
h how we want to make a strong asen grid
overall you know um ultimately a uh
clean grid will need a lot of
flexibility services interconnectors
pump storage batteries they're all
flexibility services that can contribute
>> Okay. Um yeah, maybe I I can add more
from uh I call it the social perspective
of the whole thing. Uh of course in uh I
think the biggest um for APG the biggest
challenge um I I myself think is the
number one challenge in realizing APG is
a different economic status of different
countries and the affordability to pay
you know. So how how do we balance it?
You know um different country have
different national objective because
they need to meet those national object
as well as before they kind of start
sharing the resources. So in ter of
generation plan or however we're looking
at that but in terms of the storage
where does it make sense basically know
uh in in our case for example in S we do
have a lot of resources um but our
business environment at the moment
require us to be able to maintain the
competitiveness in our electricity price
to get know to get the industry in we we
have some pluses with some minuses in
ter of doing business in what so car
energy is given given the business there
be advantage so we need to maintain that
how do we maintain that uh and be
conscious of the additional cost that we
put into the system. So by at the same
time we also looking at uh know we all
know that we are looking at um
interconnections sub cable to this part
know of Assean to peninsula to
Singapore. Um reason is obvious because
the market is here uh their player
oftaker they have they have the ability
to uh to pay well at a higher premium
and and so then where the storage should
be sitted. So, so storage be sitting on
sooily alo storage sitting on this part
of of the um soal no the assean is part
of the the systems right once they
connected so like what bal the moderator
mentioned integrated planning how do we
work with the other the planner from
both side how do we start to um instead
of just looking within our boundary how
do we look beyond that and find a
synergy of where it makes sense for us
to have that system to be sitted Yeah.
So we're talking the Singapore side EMA
of course in the way of if we have
surplus variable renewable energy or
variable solar kind of I think do we
ship over this excess over to them and
then they can do their own storage
system and whatever and maintain it or
would it be make more sense to put it on
our site before we ship it over these
are the kind of discussion but I think
it need to have uh need to have more of
that discussion and more even more kind
of integrated uh planning among the
whole assean then we can really take
advantage of the interconnection that
we're going to build or in fact then we
can make uh the the the right decision
of what kind of optimal grid no
interconnection that we should be
looking at what is the demand on one
side but as a resources on the other
side you know and build not just in term
of generation solar hydro also in term
of where to put a put a storage yeah
>> yeah thank you I think um yeah we we did
walk through technology we did walk
through uh the policy and and a lot on
the operation side. Um and and
flexibility and uh which which storage
brings in um in my view has a
significant uh impact on making these um
high-cost infrastructure decisions. the
subc cable. Yesterday we saw an
excellent uh example of how the Viking
project um it the idea of now that's
another asset and how do we keep that
asset uh fully utilized and and if we
have a lot of variability in the
utilization of that asset I mean then we
start having doubts in investing in that
as well. So this whole uh you know
storage is a gamecher in in from from
what we see in also driving some of the
investments downstream of that I mean
especially on connectivity and that's
how I see that pumped storage especially
long duration storage of any kind would
would be very significant in driving
this stability of APG and some of these
big investment decisions that we have to
make and and we saw those number of
dots. So there is probably a lot of
potential to explore. So on that note,
we are at the top of the hour at the end
of this discussion and I hope uh the
audience did enjoy this one. I did
really enjoy uh speaking to the eminent
panelists here. Thank you very much um
for for being here and nice to see uh
the room almost full on the last day of
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