The content explores the intersection of science, spirituality, and personal well-being, arguing that while science explains much, it cannot fully account for phenomena like the efficacy of prayer, suggesting a higher power is compatible with scientific understanding and essential for overcoming human limitations.
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I believe in God. I do. I think there
are many things that science can
explain. There are certain things
science can't explain.
>> But I'll [music] even go a step further,
which is that how could it be that the
the thing that's hardest for humans to
do for themselves becomes far easier
when they stop trying to do it for
themselves. It's it's a it's a wild mind
that neuroscience doesn't really
understand. But
>> one, he's a very popular voice in
culture. Two, he's a neuroscientist, so
he's talking about everything from a
really interesting angle. There's
something that we don't know that's
actually data driven that's going on
here when it comes to like [music] prayer
prayer
>> when you're talking about the brain and
all the I mean you you mentioned it last
night and this this had me thinking it's
like when you think how all that works I
have to take an aside and say how could
that happen in nature is without a creator.
creator.
>> Yeah. So, well, here's the thing. I
mean, when you start to study and
understand brain development as I did or neuroplasticity
neuroplasticity
or dopamine,
you have to meaning I don't care if
you're an atheist, agnostic or believer
in creator, you have to step back and
just go, "Wow,
wow." Now then of course there's this
difference among scientists as to who
believes in God, who doesn't. I I'll
just go on record. I'm very comfortable
saying I believe in God. I do. I think
there are many things that science can
explain. There are certain things
science can't explain.
>> But I'll even go a step further, which
is that
all the elements of science are entirely
compatible with the idea of there being
a god. And I'm not the first scientist
to say this. I mean, Einstein believed
in God. Um Carl Jung, one of the
greatest psychologists ever clearly
believed in God. There are many atheist
scientists. There are agnostic
scientists who are just kind of like
unsure, right?
>> And you know, for me, I'm in absolute
awe, absolute awe of biology. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> It's just incredible that we're sitting
here having this conversation is just
it's language that they're little sound
waves that are you're perceiving and
understanding. I mean, it's just and I
think the brain represents the apex of
incredible in terms of biology. Like the
heart is interesting, the immune system
is interesting, the liver is
interesting, but the brain is unbelievable.
unbelievable.
>> I mean, think about the number of
different ways you can move your body
compared to another species. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Think about what you did today. Think
about what I was attempting to do today, right?
right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Spectacular. Think about technology,
these lights, the, you know, Tesla cars,
spaceships. I mean,
>> yeah. the internet. I mean, unbelievable
and yet oh so real. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, you know, I mean, we could talk a
bit about how I, you know, Well, I'll
just say this. Secretly, I've always prayed.
prayed.
>> I grew up in a split religion home. My
family's like the UN. We've got people
from Guatemala, uh, Denmark, Argentina,
New York. Like, all the different
political battles are in my family.
Super left, super right, libertarians,
lefties to the, you know, it's crazy.
Thanksgiving can be difficult.
>> Yeah. But I'll say this, you know, I
absolutely pray.
>> I absolutely love that the idea, but
also what for me is really a deep
belief, which is that we can't control
everything. We're not in as much control
as we think we are. and that the
magnificence of biology and the
magnificence of of nature is um it's
it's impossible to for me to conceive
how that could be come about any other
way. It just is now.
Yeah. I mean I think that you know full stop.
stop.
>> Who do you pray to?
>> Uh that's an interesting one because I
think uh God.
>> Yeah. So I I absolutely do. I've
actually started reading the Bible
recently start to finish. I I feel like
it's my duty to like learn and in some
sense compare Old and New Testament.
>> I I'm like really I'm really interested
in the stories, but I'm also I'm
fascinated by the story of us, right?
And and the story of everything. And so,
but yeah, I pray out loud in the
morning. Um sometimes again in the
middle of the night if I wake up. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And um and it's only recently that I've
been doing this more often. It's given
you peace or
>> My goodness, it's given me so much. It's
given me peace. And you know, this is
going to sound weird and probably people
are going to be like, "What are you
talking about if this it it works." >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> It works. There's a there's a way in
which certain things I was grappling
with, you know, um I just couldn't
resolve. I couldn't do it
>> and it was all internal and I just
couldn't do it. what what how were you
trying to resolve these things like have
an answer?
>> Yeah, discipline myself. I mean it
wasn't like I was super you know
undisiplined. I mean obviously I have a
lot of self-discipline but you know like
I I always pray you know I want to
remove my defects of character. I always
wanted to have a deeper relationship to
to God. I always wanted that and I kind
of was like why don't I have that? Well
duh. That's like saying I want to be
fit. Why I'm not I'm not fit. Well
because you're not running. You're not
lifting. You're not doing the things. It
was like
>> and it was um a couple of different
people that kept showing up in my life
and and and they were doing it and it
was like well pray. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And you know I've learned and I
certainly try and do this that a lot of
prayer is about listening.
>> And a lot of prayer is about you you ask
for things or listen for things and then
an hour later, two days later you go wait.
wait. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Like it doesn't happen in the moment
necessarily. Just like fitness. I don't
want to compare fitness. I don't want to
trivialize prayer by by comparing to
fitness, but there's some parallels that
are relevant. Yeah. You
>> It's consistent work.
>> Yeah. It's consistent work. And then all
of a sudden, like things come up
>> and you're like, "Oh my goodness, I
can't believe it. That makes so much sense."
sense."
>> And now 2 years later
is is where this video came back. Any
thoughts in between?
>> No. I mean, I kind of want to wait to
see the before and after. So, I'll wait.
>> Okay. If you look at the science around
religious belief or belief in higher
power or the notion that humans don't
have all the answers, not even the
collective consciousness, what you find
is that for everything from recovery
from addiction to recovery from immense
immense loss, I mean the kinds of losses
that go way beyond uh you know a death
of a family member, although that's
intense, you know, death of all one's
children, for instance, horrible things
that people have been put through almost
without fail. Moving through that with
any kind of um sense of of
self-preservation and not engaging in
just self-destruction, which is what
most people do, almost always involves
some notion of top-down control from
outside. You know, being being um
encouraged or even instructed to do the
right thing, feeling as if something is
coming through oneself. Now, we often
hear about this in the creative process.
people like Rick Rubin and I'm a big
Twilight Tharp fan, the choreographer
will talk about, you know, it's it most
creatives will talk about sort of
downloading things from outside of them.
It kind of moves through them as opposed
to arising purely within them because of
all that sensory experience. But and
they can get into kind of these higher
realms of spirituality. But when we're
talking about breaking bad habits,
overcoming immensely difficult scenarios
that normally would throw people into
complete self-destruction or just giving
up, which is a bad habit in in its own
its own right, it it's as if the the
top- down control is so immense like the
going against oneself that's required is
so immense that when people hand that
over to God, whether or not it's Christ
or whether or not some other form of God
that they that they are, you know, that
they're attached to, you know, It seems
as if they get some relief from the
process and yet it's very effective. And
you can't deny this, right? Just as a
phenomenon. I mean, let's take off our
hats as scientists and people with kind
of parse things like the it how could it
be that the the thing that's hardest for
humans to do for themselves becomes far
easier when they stop trying to do it
for themselves?
>> It's it's a it's a wild mind that
neuroscience doesn't really understand.
But you know what we're really talking
about? Let's say this were alcohol and
I'm not an alcoholic fortunately, but
let's say I had immense difficulty in
refraining from alcohol and this would
be the precise environment in where this
would where alcohol would be attractive.
The amount of top down control that's
required is immense for somebody that's
recently sober. They have to, you know,
hopefully they're in 12step. They have
to call their sponsor. They're it can be
an jarring anxiety. That anxiety
eventually subsides. I mean, alcoholics
eventually can hang out in bars and not
have a drink, but there's a long period
of time where they can, and many never
will be able to do that. But the notion
of a higher power is is central to
almost every alcoholic at least who goes
through AA getting sober. It's that it's
a it's a almost a prerequisite and in
some sense it is a prerequisite and it's
so brilliant that it is because it takes
away the need for constant top- down
control. You give that over to something
else. this notion of a higher power. For
some people that's God. For some people
it's Christ. For some people it's you
know just general higher power because
12step is very agnostic as to you know
what people consider higher power. But
I think it is not a coincidence that the
Bible writes in these kinds of things
about sins and virtues and the need not
just good works but avoiding sin and
acknowledges in some sense that it's in
some cases near impossible for people to
do on their own. And yes, community can
help and yes, reward processes can help.
And yes, punishment can help. These all
work. We know this. As you can see this
in animal learning studies where humans
are different is that they can as far as
we know humans are unique in their
ability to give this top-down
restriction process over to some other
entity and it makes it easier not harder
and it makes it more concrete somehow
not more abstract. The only abstract
piece of it is that you know you you
can't shake this entity's hand at least
not in the standard sense. Part of me
just like finds it really like curious
that if the data, I guess you could say,
is showing that there's actually some
like general benefit even even if you aren't
aren't
>> orienting your prayer towards your
creator yet, but like the preliminary
step of recognizing your own
>> need for something outside of yourself.
Is it possible that there's a general
grace for that
>> that then God maybe recognizes is like a
crack in the door that then you go I
don't like Dylan was saying I don't want
to pray to like like if if I'm going to
have a higher power what's that going to
be and that starts you off on this quest
of like well then like like in other
words if I'm acknowledging that I need
help from somewhere outside of myself
then where do I want to draw that help from?
from?
>> That's good. And it seems to me like
maybe God has allowed just like general
prayer, if you will,
>> that posture,
>> that posture to have a benefit in and of
itself that's measurable neuroscientifically,
neuroscientifically,
>> but as obviously like a not a gateway
drug, but as a as a stepping stone
>> with the idea, and again, this is just I
want to hear if you disagree, I want to
hear about it, but like
>> I just think of Dylan again saying,
>> "I ultimately like didn't want to pray
to a doororknob because that's stupid
and I felt stupid. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I wanted to then then then think about
what who is my higher power.
>> Yeah. So the Dylan example, by the way,
we have a friend named Dylan who who was
or is an alcoholic. He would say, you
know, he's I think close to 10 years
sober now, but that was his he was an
atheist who his his uh not mentor, his um
um >> sponsor
>> sponsor
>> sponsor was basically saying you have to
pray. And as an atheist, like you said,
he had to go, okay, I'll pray to the
ceiling or whatever. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So for him that
>> Oh, you're right. It was a ceiling, not
a doororknob. Yeah. But the but the
point you're right which is it's
interesting because he came to that
conclusion of I have been my own god. I
don't believe that's I think the dilemma
atheists kind of have which is I don't
have a god so therefore I'm god meaning
I'm the final authority. I'm the final
say. I I get to decide if this is truth
or not truth.
>> Truth isn't revealed. Truth is something
I determine.
>> And in scriptures we see it's truth is a
revelation. Truth is a person revealed
to us. Right.
>> Right. So but I it's funny. So I I think
you're right in some ways, right, where
[snorts] prayer forced him, for example,
to take on this posture of you're
actually not God, right?
>> And you've been and look it, if you are
if you are God, if you are the final
sane authority, you you're terrible at
it. Like you've ruined your life through
alcohol. So he's kind of like I think
even with Huberman, there is that side
of it where he's very pragmatic. And
that's kind of why I brought up Proverbs
like sure I think this is the this is
the thing to me that I'm trying maybe
we're trying to get to
>> is the end goal prayer like even for
Christians, for us who believe in Jesus.
And then let's think if you're not a
Christian, but is my is my goal I just
want to get people to pray or is prayer
a means to the end in some ways
>> and God is the goal.
>> God is the goal.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> But what I'm Yeah. So I I I think that's
right. And I guess what I'm saying
though is if you kind of start to go
down that road of the search for what
your higher power is going to be, you
cannot top Jesus. There there is no
better instantiation, if you will, of
the moral good anywhere. He like in any
world religion, in any philosophy,
he competes with no one. Yeah.
>> And I'm just wondering to myself if God
knows that his incarnation and his
revelation of himself perfectly in the
person of Christ is going to is going to
end up jumping off the page to anyone
earnestly seeking for what they want
their higher power to be.
>> That's so good. you you who who who
would you rather follow like who who who
can who would you rather um pick if you
will I'm thinking about this as
practical and like and trying to be as
non-Christian as possible but who do you
want to pick to follow rather than Jesus
>> seriously like I I I would challenge
anyone to ask that question who would
you rather follow rather base the way
ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra ra
ra ra ra ra rather like if you will like
derive value or derive like power from
other than Jesus. And there's a reason
that he is the most written about,
talked about person in human history.
He's the He's the single most
significant character in all of human
history. And he claims to be God. Seems
like a good place to start. That's all
I'm saying.
>> Seems like a great place to begin your
journey of
>> it's better than the ceiling or a doororknob.
doororknob.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think as you kind of
do the survey of world religions and
world views once I guess this is what
I'm trying to say is once you kind of
cross that chasm of I within myself
don't have the chops to solve my biggest problem.
problem. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Where then shall I go to solve my
biggest problem?
>> That is fascinating to me because then
you go well do I well wait a second.
Islam is just telling me try harder.
>> Well that's what I can't do. I've I've
been trying to try harder for decades
and I can't get free from this. And and
then you kind of go around the board and
you go, it seems like all these
religions are telling me to do better,
to to be better, to do more. And then
Christianity is saying he has done for
you what you cannot do for yourself.
Fundamentally, it's a different message.
He has accomplished for you what you
can't accomplish for your for yourself.
He holds within himself the power source
that you need to be free that you don't
have in and of yourself. All that I'm
saying is like a person who's earnest or
like genuinely self-reflective
>> and begins the search for the quest for
the higher power that they actually want
to bring into their life. I think Jesus
is going to shine out from from there.
>> That's good. That's good. I mean, I
agree. Obviously, I agree. You know, and
that's the part of this, you know, I
think journey we're on cuz then people
go, who is Jesus? You know, is the
Mormon Jesus? Is the Jehovah's Witness
Jesus? Is it the Muslim form of Jesus?
And I mean, we got to and that's why we
obviously go, what is, well, what does
Jesus say about himself? what does he
claim? And you know, so to me it just
does take you on this journey ultimately
because I think that is that is the
question of questions even according to
Jesus, right? In in Matthew, Jesus looks
at his disciples and says, "Who do men
say that I am?" And then he looks at
them and says, "Well, who do you say
that I am?" And I I honestly think the
most important question in life is who
do you say Jesus is? Like if I had to
go, you have one question, what's the
most important question in life is how
do you define Jesus?
>> Right? Because I [clears throat] mean
that does change how you pray. It
changes everything. So because if Jesus
is just a man or a prophet, why even
pray to him?
>> But if he is the mediator between God
and man,
>> like that's 1 Timothy 2, >> right?
>> right?
>> There's one mediator between God and
man. And I love that verse in Job where
Job sees this problem. He goes, "Who can
I think it's Job 9:5? He goes, who can
lay his hand both on God and on man?"
>> And that is only the person of Jesus. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> Who's the person that can lay his hand
on God and on man? How about the God
man, Jesus Christ?
>> Amen. And and that's I I think that's
the ultimate conclusion. So I I love the
Huberman kind of story where I'm going
man like he's he's seeing the value.
It's it's very pragmatic, but I don't
want um like it's not enough because
it's pragmatic because pragmat it's
funny if you told me um you know Josiah
it's to your benefit to talk to your wife
wife
>> because if you talk to your wife, you
know, she might be more close to you and
more intimate with you or like if you
were to tell me like the pragmatic
benefits of communication my wife, you
might be right. You might make good
points and you might even motivate me
for a short period of time. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But the goal isn't just communication
with my wife. It's what's behind the
communication with my It's like I I want
closeness, right?
>> I want nearness. I want friendship.
>> And so I think even with prayer or this
idea of what is prayer and I I do agree
with him. He he focused on this idea of
also listening. That's actually
something we could that's by its own
video. Prayer is not just talking, it's listening.
listening. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But um I I like to me the goal of
marriage or like this prayer is not just
me getting my points across. We're now
communicating, exchanging information,
>> but it's nearness. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's also what I want for people
not like again, so is prayer the end
goal or is it a means that God uses to
intimacy, to closeness, to nearness? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Two really quick last thoughts. One
basically like
just to put what everything that you
just said, which was amazing, into like
a sentence for people to hold on to like
God must not be a means to an end. M
>> if you're doing that with God, you're
creating an idol of something other than
God. Like God, if if you're talking
about the true God, must be the end of
all things. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Or or else it's like it's idol worship
or or it's misordered love. It's it's
going to go you're you want a genie and
a bottle. You want a vending machine.
You're trying to turn God into something
>> other than what he is. In which case,
you're worshiping a a God that isn't
real. If you're talking about the real
God, he will be the end of all ends.
>> It was. And I love the way that you put
that. The second thing I wanted to say
really quick in terms of who does Jesus
say that he is. I have to go to
Revelation chapter one. John on Patos 90
beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat
beat beaten and battered and bruised and
through all kinds of things that we
don't really know about. But all of a
sudden here he is on this island and he
and he sees Jesus the risen Jesus. And
he says when I saw him I fell at his
feet as though dead
>> but he laid his right hand on me saying
fear not John. I am the first and the
last and the living one. I died and
behold I am alive forever more and I
have the keys of death in Hades. So that
that is the Jesus that that we should
really ponder.
>> Not the Jesus who is a good moral
exemplar. Not the Jesus who is the
prophet of Islam. The Jesus who tells us
to fear not because he is the first and
the last and the living one. Although he
died, behold, he is alive forever more.
That's what he says about himself. And
so let's go. Let's go based on that is
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