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#AEBF25 | Day 3 - Asia Zero Emission Community (AZEC) Business Forum

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The ASAC Business Forum convened stakeholders to accelerate Asia's decarbonization and sustainability efforts by translating ambitious net-zero goals into tangible projects and actionable solutions, focusing on collaboration between public and private sectors.

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A very good morning to our distinguished

guests, partners of the ASAC Business

Forum, stakeholders, ladies and

gentlemen, Konichiwa, Sawadi, or as we

say in Malaysia and Indonesia, Salamat

Sajatra, or may you be well to all of

you here with us this morning. I'm Sheni

Imani and on behalf of our organizers,

it is my honor to welcome all of you to

the Azac Business Forum, a vital

platform advancing collaboration towards

a decarbonized and sustainable Asia.

This morning's session focuses on how

both the public and private sectors can

turn ambition into action, exploring

pathways such as zero emission thermal

power, sustainable fuels, and transition

finance. Building on the momentum from

the second ASAC ministerial meeting held

in Jakarta last year, this forum

continues the conversation, translating

ASAC's shared vision into real projects,

tangible partnerships, and actionable

solutions. Over the next few hours,

we'll hear the latest developments,

examine challenges, and look ahead to

the innovations driving our region

towards a net zero future, one that

balances climate action, economic

growth, and energy security. To kick

things off for our session, let's start

with the first of our three opening

remarks this morning. For that,

representing the advocacy group of ASAC,

please allow me to invite Mr. Mr. Kabori

Hideki, vice chair of the Japan Business

Federation, Kadan Ren and chairman and

director of Asahi Cas Corporation. Over

Uh, thank you very much introduction.

Uh, good morning everyone.

So I am addressing you today on behalf

of a Japanese business community.

I am delight I'm delighted to see so

many representative of government uh key

agency and business community here today

at the Azek business forum uh from both

the Asian countries and beyond.

uh Azek has aimed for a triple

breakthrough by stimul stimultaneously

uh achieving uh decarbonization,

economic growth and energy security in

Asia through debas pathway.

Now energy security is a growing in

importance worldwide. geometical risk uh

worldwide as the geometical risks increase

increase

uh the Russia invasion of Ukraine

and so risk

uh the EU which before took a one size

fit all approach to decarbonization

is starting to adopt an more pragmatic approach

approach

it critical execute uh uh sorry so it

now seeks to uh uh deci de uh deconizing

self s self s self s self s self s self

s selfizing

gain in industrial uh comp competitiveness

competitiveness competitiveness

competitiveness

uh this demonstrate that need to uh

pursue diverse pathways uh is coming to

better understand around the

uh ESIC significance is growing as a

The ESIC initiative has made steady progress

progress

action plan for the next decade was

adopted at the second editor's meeting

in October last year.

uh agreement with the with the uh first

a project has also been concluded.

Uh also the idea of estab establishment

establishing an Asian empowered grid is

gaining momentum.

We hope that the step will be taken to

make it happen while tapping private

sector technology through public private partnerships.

partnerships.

The Japanese business community continue

to have a high expectation for ESICH.

We appreciate that the Azek initiative

have made headway. However, progress

have been have been slow.

Uh Kedarin therefore released a second

set of recommendation

last months to follow follow up on the

last year's

uh we uh we did so in the brief that

it's a critical to execute

uh individ individual decodination

project quickly. Let me briefly share

these recommendations with you.

First uh the coordination project and

wide policy uh coordination need to be

trusted as the two complimentary approaches

approaches

with regards to a policy issue that

relate uh specifically to today's agenda.

agenda.

The issue of a unifying standard and

certification system is of a

considerable interest to Japanese companies

companies

especially uh vehicle bofuels are an

immediate way to reduce CO2 emission

since they can be used even in motor vehicles.

vehicles.

We encourage Ezek partnered government

to take swift action to design and

develop systems of the pro uh uh pro

promoting their wider use.

Uh further financing is essential to

executing individual project.

Predict capability of return on the

investment is the one concern when it

come to transion financing.

Uh project project eligible for support

therefore need to be clearly identified.

We are also calling for the

establishment of a mechanism enable

organic strategy use of funding from the

Japanese government international bies

and public private financial institutions.

institutions.

Uh finally I would like to say that the

government and the private sector must

work together if carbon neutrality is to

be achieved.

May today's the business forum be a

opportunity to accelerate accelerate

effort to implement the ESC initiative.

Thank you very much.

>> Thank you Mr. Kabori. It is thanks to

community partners like Kanren that ASAC

can continue to thrive and make

Ladies and gentlemen, in the leadup to

today's forum, a pitch event for startup

companies called ASEAN Sparks was held

in this venue just yesterday. And later

today, there will be another event

taking place, a collaboration between

Japan and ASEAN called Safia or the

Clean Energy Future Initiative for

ASEAN. Both of these events are

significant for industrial development,

energy conservation, and decarbonization

within the ASEAN region, and they align

closely with the objectives of this ASAC

business forum. With that in mind, let's

take the opportunity to hear from the

ASEAN Center for Energy or ACE, the

organizer of both these events

representing ACE. Ladies and gentlemen,

please welcome on stage Yamabah Razip

Daw, executive director of the ASEAN

>> Thank you, Madame MC.

Asalam alaikum

salamatra.

Um excellencies,

distinguished delegates, ladies and gentlemen,

gentlemen,

um it is my great pleasure to welcome

you all to this ASEAN zero emission

community of Azac business forum. So the

forum marks an important role for our

region to work together for a common and

shared prosperity.

So this year 2025 under Malaysian's

chairmanship of ASEAN.

So the AMS or energy

meeting of energy minister meeting have

adopted the team of powering Azan

bridging boundaries and building

prosperity. So this team reflects our

collective commitment for more energy

cooperations towards prosperity to

ensure that our economic growth remains

dynamic, innovative and people centered.

So this is the broad vision that's not

only being a key features

of the Asan energy business forum but

also the discussion at the official

municipal agenda on the same uh level

this venue. So this is a strong

collective theme on how ASEAN can move

toward together

as a group towards a shared energy

security and transition. AEAN have also

endorsed the new business plan or the

new blueprint what we call AEAN plan of

action for energy cooperation or well

known as Apike for the next five years

starting 2026 to 2030 and another

important uh road map AEAN renewable

energy long-term road map

with others annual priorities

So this moment marks a new chapter for

the AEAN energy cooperation. Building

from the AEAN community vision 2045,

our energy corporation shall provide a

just, secured and people centered growth

for all. Excellencies, ladies and

gentlemen, it is my hope that today's

forum can amplify this theme and message

from the Assean Energy Corporation to

broader community. We commend the close

dialogue uh partnership with Japan

including through many other joint activities.

activities.

It is only through this type of uh

cooperation that we can move forward

together as a region for our dreams and vision.

vision.

It is my also hope that our cooperation

platform in the Aminim plus three and

seafia and aan sparks and others can

continue to strengthen our dialogue partnership.

partnership.

With that I warmly invite all of you. We

still have another day today to join the

business forum but asan energies

business forum which is held

this year. I think with that note again

salam thank you Razib and we look

forward to more great initiatives from

ACE like and its collaborators as well

like ASEAN Sparks and Sofhia as we move

ahead towards net zero goals.

And last but not least, ladies and

gentlemen, let's also hear from the

Ministry of Economy, Trade, and Industry

of Japan, a vital partner of the ASAC

Business Forum. For that, let's invite

on stage, Mr. Kimura Nhiro, the

ministry's senior negotiator for the

climate change and global environmental

Good morning. uh excellency uh

distinguished delegates and uh ladies

and gentlemen uh my name is Norhiro

Kimura uh senior negotiator for climate

change GX policy group at ministry of

economic trade and industry of Japan I'm

honored to be here uh making open

opening speech on behalf of METI

thank you very much for joining us today

for the joint opening of three important

events such as Asan sparks a business

forum and the ACIA government private

forum held in conjunction with the ASC

minister meeting.

I believe Mr. uh Kobi Hideki, vice chair

of Kadan and chairman director of Asakas

Corporation as well as Mr. Dato Lazib

Dawud exe director of Assean Center for

Energy have already outlined the

objectives and key points of each event.

What I would like to uh emphasize here

is that these three events are just not

not just being held in parallel rather

these three events are working together

in an organically linked manner in order

to achieve energy transition towards

carbon neutrality which is a common

challenge for Japan as the partner countries.

countries.

The fight against climate change we are

facing right now is no longer something

that can be addressed by any one country

alone. Nor can it be solved by single

technology or sector.

For example,

in the case of bofuel, Asan countries

have huge potential of production while

Japan can offer technologies for

utilization of bofuel.

Crosscutting collaboration across

innovation, investment, institutional

frameworks and international cooperation

is now imperative.

In fact, these three events are serving

as a platform to achieve this kind of collaboration.

collaboration.

At Asan Sparks held yesterday, 20

outstanding startup andmemes

engaging decarbonization and clean

energy technologies presented their solutions.

solutions.

As a result, promising eight companies

were selected. as a future driving force

forces towards the decarbonization.

As many women led startups participate

in this event, we look forward to the

emergence of new solutions from such

diverse innovators.

Right after this opening, the ASIC

business forum will take place aiming

for discussing the potential and

challenges of decarbonization business

in the region.

broadening investment opportunities and

cross business collaboration.

Through this dialogue among private

sectors, international organization and

governments, we expect new partnership

will be developed accelerating the

energy transition across the entire region.

region.

The SEPHIA government private forum will

be held this afternoon serving as a

platform to support and advance these

initiatives through public private

partnership from business institutional

and policy aspects.

Meti and ACE are actively engaged in

promoting the smooth introductions of

decarbonization technologies by private

companies through capacity building

seminars and information sharing.

These efforts are currently beginning to realize

realize

concrete demonstration project.

The joint statement issued at Azek

ministerial and the leaders meetings in

the past two years have repeatedly

emphasized the importance of pursuing

various and practical transitions in

line with each country's national circumstances

circumstances

within the AG region. We share the views

that it is important to achieve these

transitions in a manner compatible with

economic growth and to utilize various

energy sources and technologies.

While these three events take different

approaches and activities,

each of them is a steady and practical

initiative aiming for securing various

pathways towards energy transition. In

this context,

I believe the strength strength of these

three events lies in the fact that they

bring together a wide range of stakeholders,

stakeholders,

governments, international organization,

startups and large corporations

working across boundary.

This kind of collaboration is our key

advantage and the value all of the

participants here can offer to the world.

world.

The outcome of these events will be

shared during the ASC ministerial

meeting this afternoon and be reflected

in its joint statement.

We will continue to make best effort to

ensure that these public private initiatives

initiatives

further expand throughout the region and

ASEAN countries. Finally,

Finally,

please join us and enjoy the discussion

at the Azek Business Forum and the

Sephia government private forum

immediately following this opening event.

event.

We look forward to networking with you

all during lunch and other uh break time.

time.

Thank you so much for attention.

>> Thank you so much Mr. Kimura.

And thank you very much gentlemen, Mr.

Kabori, Yamabhagedato and Mr. Kimura.

It's heartening to note that ASAC is

leading the way for zero emissions

initiatives in this region proving that

no one country can go it alone and

dialogue, partnership and collaboration

are the way to go. With that we conclude

the opening session ladies and gentlemen

and now it's time to move into our forum.

For our first session, we will discuss

the ASEAN power grid, an important

initiative to enhance regional energy

connectivity and utilize renewable

resources more effectively. Although

each country's systems and regulations

differ, progress is being made through

several ongoing projects. Today, our

speakers from ASAC member countries and

the private sector will share updates,

challenges, and possible solutions to

further advance the ASEAN power grid.

I'm pleased to share that all our

sessions here today will be moderated by

economists from the economic research

institute for ASEAN and East Asia or

area to chair this first session. I'm

honored to welcome on stage Dr. Lean Fe

policy fellow area as our moderator as

well as our panelists. Over to you Dr. Lee.

>> Uh so good morning distinguished guests,

ladies and gentlemen. Um my name is M

Lee from Aria. So it's my great honor to

be here to moderate this uh very

important and interesting session uh on

asham power grid APG. Um and I think

this is a perfect uh timing and place

for us to uh talk about this topic. Um

because of this uh just announced uh

newou and also uh this is a perfect

place because it's in association with

uh AMM and uh uh EMM. So uh very uh

honored. We also today have uh several

experts from ACE from TMBB uh and Kai

Electric as well as uh ADB joining us.

They represent the think tank uh the uh

energy companies and also uh the

financial institutes. Uh so hopefully we

will today have a very fruitful

discussion. So without further ado uh

allow me to uh announce the beginning of

our session starting with uh

presentations from our panelist. Uh

please uh is please

>> thank you very much Dr. Yanfe. Um please

allow me to introduce myself. My name is

Nadila Shani. I'm the head of the power

generations and interconnections

department in ACE. And for today to open

the discussions uh I would like to give

some um context and updates as well on

what's the progress of the APG. So I

think you've heard all um these three

days uh about uh ASEAN power grid and

how we are um made a prog quite

significant progress uh uh although that

we have been um sh uh initiating this

since like two decades ago but I think

recently this past five years we've made

um quite a dynamic uh and momentum to

commencing and accelerating the

development of the APG. Um as you see in

the slide that uh currently uh under the

ASEAN cooperations uh on APG we've had

um listed like 18 crossber projects um

that is prioritized to push it in the

regions and there will be many more that

perhaps uh led by the bilateral

cooperations between the countries and

as of today we have like nine

interconnections in operations with with

um differentiations of like grid to grid

oper uh gridto grid interconnections

also generations to grid

interconnections and why this is

important is because like in the recent

Asan interconnections master plan study

that we conducted as the regional

planning of the regions we envisaged

that by having this much of

interconnections we could evacuate the

renewable energy sources um from the

different parts of the assean and then

we can optimize it to share the

renewable energy sources to be used

widely in the regions and I think this

will bring uh greater benefits um in

terms of um higher renewable energy

penetrations in the regions. Uh uh we

will need more stronger interconnections

between the power system to handle the

resiliency um uh of the uh grid itself

and it will um can reduce this um uh

cost as well uh in an saving and

generations capacity if we could

maximize the interconnections.

And this is uh the study that we are

doing as well um looking at the current

existing interconnections and how the

infrastructure could develop uh until um

2040 and basically we want to also um

see the pathway on how we can use the

existing and the future interconnections

to enable trade between countries as

well. So uh currently the existing most

of the existing interconnections that we

use under APG is for um uh not for

commercial purposes with some of this um

uh especially the generations to grid

for commercial purposes but mostly it's

for like uh uh resiliency and also the

um reliability of the interconnected

power system but as of we we are more

interconnected in the future we'll see

that this um infrastructure could also

be um the backbones uh to use um for us

to uh trade um between each other and

we've had the first um multilateral

power trade uh pilot uh under the Lao

Thailand Malaysia Singapore as a basis

and in how we want to develop further uh

from crossber bilateral interconnections

to multilateral um power trade learning

from the lessons from the first um LTM MS

and then um I just want to highlight as

well perhaps we'll discuss more in the

panel um in um developing this

infrastructure and also market

development in Assean there will be um

several challenges um like policy and

regulatory institution uh institution uh

institutional um challenges technical

and also financial um and its

implementations. I think this is um

where we are under the uh uh regional

cooperations framework to facilitate to

solve um um and help address some of

these challenges because this is

something that perhaps uh not can be

solved uh uh under the bilateral

cooperations itself. For example, um

you've hear from yesterday that uh ASEAN

uh as a group managed to finish the new APGMOU.

APGMOU.

Uh this enhanced APGMOU is this uh will

serve as the intergovernmental agreement

between all the ASEAN member states on

how we develop the APG. So this is one

of the enablers on how we are moving

forward in terms of um developing the

APG infrastructure and initiate the

development of the markets um in the

Asan regions. And this um sort of like

um higher uh uh new enhanced MOU will

provide sort of like more clearer

institutional framework and governance

in the regional level. So hopefully that

this would help um the projects um

moving as well bilaterally and also uh

in the regional level there is uh some

technical and financial challenges that

needs to be solved as well that perhaps

we'll discuss more um in the panel. Um

thank you very much.

>> Yes, thank you um Miss Shani. Uh I think

that is a wonderful presentation giving

us the uh overall view on APG and its

related uh policy and institutional

developments. Next uh um let's uh zoom

in a little bit from company's point of

view. U allow me to uh invite TMB to

Salamatra a very good morning

distinguished guest, fellow delegates.

Uh thank you Dr. Lee for introducing uh

let me uh introduce uh myself. Uh my

name is uh Rahim Yusov. Uh I'm from

Tanaga National. Uh currently I'm in

charge of the heading uh department of

uh uh grid strategy. uh basically

uh crafting the policies as well as

strategy for future grid network in uh

peninsula Malaysia for Tanaga National.

Uh I will do quick introduction of the

company uh portfolio and so on. uh later

during the Q&A sessions uh I will go

into details uh what are our priorities

in terms of promoting the ashan power

grid in for the Malaysia perspective.

Okay. Uh okay. Tanaga National is the

largest utility company in Malaysia. Uh

we hold about uh 48% of the domestic

generation capacity. Uh our green

network span from north to south. uh

it's about uh transmission length is

about 30,000 30 29,000 kilometers of

transmissions sub station session 543

uh currently our performance for the

grid system minute is 0.0019 0019.

Uh for the last uh 8 years we have been

uh the performance for the grid network

is below 2 minute. Yeah. Uh and then for

our distribution network uh is about uh

the length of the network is about 738

uh kilometer uh 1,000 kilometer about

99,000 substations with the performance

of SID is about 47 uh minute and our

customer is about 10.4 4 millions and

currently our customer satisfaction

index position at 87 uh%. We also have

our uh just to elaborate further uh we

have our subsidiary uh SAI electricity

on the east of Malaysia. Uh

on the group portfolio uh current uh

gross capacity is about 21 gig uh with

domestic about 17 gig uh international

about 3.2 2 uh just for mention our

network for Tanaga National span uh

across uh country is 500 KV is the

highest voltage. The lowest voltage is

132. So we have 500 275 KV running at a

50 Hz uh frequency. Uh we also several

main subsidiaries there. Uh we have a

manufacturing uh subsidiaries as well as

providing uh consultancy to various

go next. Uh

on the international uh platform uh

level uh we also invest quite a

significant use of investment. Uh for

example in 2021 we have established

disadvantage area in United Kingdom. Uh

we have onshore wind about 124 megawatt.

Uh also we have offshore winds about 41

megawatt total about uh solar is 276

megawatt in United Kingdom. In 2016, we

also invest in Turkey, GMA

uh through our uh subsidiary uh as well

as uh REMA is one of the our biggest

subsidiary that expand mainly focusing

on the Middle East uh utility

uh as well as uh the others. Recently we

also uh in the plan of going one uh

solar plant uh acquisition in Australia.

So this is all this international uh

division uh also

looking into increasing our portfolio in

re development not only in Malaysia but

also focusing uh rest of the uh area in

the in this region as well is in Australia

Australia

uh and other country as well. With that

uh I end for my introduction. Uh later

during the QA I will show into detail uh

on the TMBB perspective of the AEAN

power grid. Thank you very much. Thank you.

you.

>> Thank you Mr. Rahim. Um I think uh

utility companies like uh TMBB certainly

have uh expertise uh and capacity. So

look forward to seeing more leadership

uh from uh TMBB in the specific uh APG

projects in future. Um next uh maybe we

can uh look beyond Ashan uh for the time

being let's uh invite Kansai electric to

share with us their expertise and

experience please Kai.

>> Thank you Dr. Lee. Uh good morning

everyone. My name is Sego Yagi uh from

Kai Power in Japan. Uh I'm head of the

project development the global ex

division. I'm uh the exploring the new

investment opportunity globally. So I'd

like to uh introduce briefly my company

and also what can I want to do in uh

This is our history. We established it

more than 70 years ago. that we are

becoming the one of the largest UT

companies in Japan with a track record

of innovation and leadership in the

power industry.

We I'd like to uh highlight about the

power grid business. uh in we in 2000 we

deployed Anan Kihok direct current

mainline 200 KV uh transmission line

project in Japan and also that in 2018

we joined the Noi connect UK Germany 500

KV interconnector project. This is under construction

now that we have the zerocarbon uh the

vision 2050 to achieve the zerocarbon

society in the future. So that we

believe the power grid system the stable

and reliable is quite important for the

This is our the the key figures but uh

I'd like to skip the in detail but uh

please note that the transmission

distribution business was unbundled in

Japan under the regulatory regime but

now that we are working together with

TND company uh in the international business

here is our the global portfolio. We are

not the doing the business in Japan but

also the expanding our business in uh

Asia, Europe and the United States. In

power grid business we deploy the UK and

Germany the interconnect project but

also that we uh are very uh keen to

involved in the such business in Asan countries.

Uh this is the case of the NOI connect

UK Germany interconnector project.

First HVDC interconnector project uh

between UK and Germany to contribute the

enhancing the utilization of renewable

energy resources and uh reducing CO2

emissions which already the uh the

previous presenters mentioned.

This is uh good structured uh with the

project finance uh strong support by the

JBIC uh because the there is a stable

revenue schemes in both the UK and

Germany that such the government is

quite supportive for the this project.

This is a DC 500 KV and 1.4 gawatt uh

gawatt capacity. The length is uh about

720 kilometers.

Now the revenue scheme in UK the capan

floor and also the Germany uh provide a

cost plus fee uh leg uh revenue scheme.

So that this is a quite important for us

to join this project as a uh business aspect.

We can have a uh strong confidence to

contribute the this kind of the HVDC

project from the physibility study

phases and development construction and

the final operation phases. So we have

to uh we would like to commit the

business plan modeling technical design

on the modeling and uh main suppliers

contract and also the finance agreement

all aspects we would like to uh bring

the our experience uh to the this project.

project.

Final one is uh our the recent

activities in Indonesia backed Azek

initi in initiatives.

The under the EIC in initiatives the

Indonesia grid working group has

established in since 2022.

Now the Indonesian government PLN and

KAI entered into the MOU to expertise

these activities in Indonesia.

The Japanese government and also the

Indonesian government's EQUIN have

jointly held the expert group meeting

recently uh to address the several

challenges uh including transmission

line project uh under the GDG G scheme.

So cancer is leading these kind of

activities in Indonesia. So I'm would

like to uh expand further our

contribution to the Asian countries.

That's all. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Yagi. I think your

presentation is um reminder to us uh not

only the importance of uh technologies

uh from within or from beyond the region

uh could be key enablers and also uh

ASAC uh as an initiative regional

initiative may play very important role.

So uh last but not least, let's move on

to ADB. Uh very importantly, how are we

going to finance all this? Please.

>> Thank you. Um and thank you. Um I'd like

to thank uh the um ASCA organizer for

bringing in the um organizing this panel

um with the research institute to

utility to the um and developers and the

financing. This is a great um um set of

uh people here in the panel. Um my name

is Ku Mitsahashi. I'm the energy

director at the uh Asian Development

Bank. I'm very happy to be here. Um I'd

like to cover um bit of the challenges

that there is especially on the

financing side um and the initiative uh

and explain that the APG financing

initiatives and its objective and also

the solutions um to uh including the

diverse financing solutions that can um

and how coordination will will help and

because it's a short presentation I'll

prepare the script and then go through

the script uh together with the slides. today.

today.

So the ASEAN power grid is a

transformative initiative that's is

center central to the achieving a more

resilient and sustainable energy future

for ASEAN. As I highlighted yesterday at

the uh joint preliminary opening, the

APG is vital for promoting economic

integration, growth, energy security and

energy transition across the region.

Momentum is building behind the APG with

increasing interconnections

preparation for subc cable projects and

national grid strengthening effort.

The SM ministers underscores that these

uh developments are not just technical

upgrades. They are strategic moves to

ensure long-term prosperity and

The delivering the APG vision requires

concerted action to overcome a range of

challenges. Financing remains a critical

hurdle. Uh several her several hurdles

um and constraints have been identified.

Large funding needs for project

developments in preparation especially

for complex subcable projects.

Coordination challenges that can lead to

ineffic ineffective allocation and

sequencing of support.

Gaps in basic project data which

essential for sound physibility judgment.

judgment.

The need for sustained support from a

say member states to attract

development partners and financiers.

To address these financing supports

should maximize regional opportunities,

mobilize large-scale financing for both

project and provide an inclusive

flexible approaches uh for utilities and sponsors.

sponsors.

Generating data and evidence of uh APG

project benefits uh is uh also crucial

ADB and the World Bank are partnering

with ASEAN to deliver the ASEAN power

financing initiative APGF

with um ASEAN's vision. The APGF aims to

bring together solutions and partners to

enable end-to-end financing for APG

project. Key objectives include

developing a robust pipeline of APG

related projects, mobilizing additional

capital and increasing access to

sustainable finance by demonstrating the

contribution of the APG project to

regional integration, resilience and decarbonization.

decarbonization.

providing technical assistance to

translate project needs into information

suitable for funders and investors.

Convening the APG financing ecosystem

around the project specific requirements

and aligning different forms of support

behind spec specific project needs. The

APGF working group is established

together with World Bank as in center

for energy and as in secretariat to lead

the financing agenda and then ensure

timely delivery of assistance requests.

The partner for assean connectivity on

energy uh or pace will enhance

collaboration align activities and

surface common issues for certain activi visibility.

Finally, the APGF will mobilize diverse

financing uh solutions by improving

coordination and information flows. A

range of financing options is a

available across the project cycle from

feasibility to capex stage including

grants for studies and investments often

attached to loans. Loans for both public

and private sector projects with

flexible structure and extended teners.

Equity investment and blended financing

to low cost or absorbed risks.

de-risisking instruments such as partial

risk and the credit risk credit guarantee

guarantee

uh forex hedging and liquidity facilities

facilities

by facilitating access to project

preparation and financing support accel

accelerating project progress and

mobilizing additional financing and

d-risking support. APGF aims to unlock

the full potential of SEM power grid.

In summary, the SMAG grid is a

cornerstone for regional integration and

energy transition. Overcoming financing

and coordination challenges through the

APGF and its collaborative appro

approach uh will be key to realizing the

vision and delivering sustainable

resilience energy for Thank you.

>> Thank you Mr. Kru for uh elaborating on

how financing uh could be a key enabler

and uh we certainly look forward to more

APG projects uh to be enabled and

reaching FID with the help of uh ADB and

your partners. Um but uh as we all also

have seen from all these uh

presentations uh financing of course is

not the uh only uh sort of uh challengy

and also um enabler that we will uh have

to take care of. So we have more uh

issues to discuss. Therefore, uh allow

me to take the advantage of being a

moderator here because uh area has also

been uh developing uh almost a decade of

uh research on APG. So allow me to take

the lead to raise uh several I think uh

essential questions about APG to our

I would like to I would like to begin uh

with uh Shani from ACE. Um so you have

mentioned about this uh enhanced MOU and

uh we uh also very much look forward to

this exciting development. So could you

help us um u shed some light uh on the

most important differences that this one

will make? Yeah.

>> Yes. Um thank you Dr. Yanfe. So just uh

uh previous history the uh the first

APGOU that ASEAN had was in 2007 and in

uh the the content of the MOU is

basically providing the uh focus area of

cooperations under the APG and during

that time theou is focusing on how uh

it's uh to build a a regional study how

we as a um asan regions could um uh uh

implement the AP PG and the the focus uh

under the MOU is explorations mode. So

it includes like uh cooperations in

developing studies and etc. uh not so

much focusing on like how to drive the

uh or facilitate the bilateral

cooperations for the APG. the

differences and why it's now uh called

enhanceou because I think there is a

reaffirmations of the commitment from

the asan member states that translates

to uh we want to move from studies to

more like uh making a framework for

implementations. So this translates to

the points in the MOU that in order to

move this APG projects uh and faster to

uh accelerate the development we need to

address the several uh points as a

regions together. First is the

institutional capacity or uh

arrangement. So this means that

currently we have uh the uh APG related

bodies like APGCC, hapua and earn which

is a platform for different stakeholders

to convene. at how B basically these

three bodies could actually contribute

in um making a framework to develop the

um APG in in the implementation as a

projects that's the first the second is

also technical challenges uh so enhance

the regional planning that we have and

also the financing um challenges as well

so I think one of the concrete one is

the uh establishment of the APGF that's perhaps

perhaps

to the uh visions that the asan that

this thisou will focus on moving from

the study into implementations.

>> Thank you Charnie for sharing your

insights. I think this is a very

exciting uh momentum and um many more uh

facilitation tools are coming on the

stage to help accelerate APG. Yeah. So

it's very exciting. Uh next uh uh I

would like to turn to Mr. Rahim um from

TMBB's point of view. So uh Malaysia is

already engaged in the uh APG projects.

So what are the uh current challenges

associated with these projects? Uh maybe

you can share with us more details and

insights. Yeah,

>> thank you uh Dr. um before uh deep dive

into all the challenges that we are

facing now as well as in the future, let

me give you a very brief uh recap on

what we having now in Malaysia. uh

currently uh for Peninsula Malaysia

especially for TMBB we are focusing on

the around five interconnection that we

are going to build although in the

screen you saw uh you can see sevens uh

but we are focusing on the first five

first step okay I start with the uh you

see uh in the a study uh in the as three

study uh they have identified for Assean

region under APG into a three category

region we call it uh if I'm not mistaken

north, south and west something like

that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So as we all

know for the north uh

region under Assan APG we can see that

uh they got huge substantial significant

hydro in the greater me sub region. Yeah

around 229 gawatt. This is quite huge re

there. So imagine that uh we can deliver

this clean energy throughout all these

Assean country. So for this part of the

story that's that that's why uh Malaysia

uh especially for TMBB uh has positioned

itself to facilitate and enable all this

clean energy to be distributed and then

we can go for uh sales or something like

that for the rest of the country. Okay.

for Malaysia perspective. Uh the first

interconnection that uh currently we uh

we have in Thailand and EGAT and Tanaga

National Bahad. Uh we have uh currently

we have HBDC

uh 300 megawatt. Uh soon it's going to

be retired in 2029.

Yeah. Uh we have done the 50 study to

upgrade the current uh HBDC.

uh you may go for uh upgrading for 10,00

gig also 1,00 megawatt or your one gig

uh HPDC between EGT and TMBB

uh FS we have more or less completed uh

we just uh reaching for our counterpart

in Thailand just to have uh further

detail so we can go further with this

project uh and the good things that uh

as you all know TMBB is under regulated

business. Uh we have a full support from

our energy commission to have this uh

connection to be further upgraded. Uh

the second link that I would like to

further detail is between the

interconnection between uh

Vietnam to uh

Malaysia. Uh

it's a wind power. uh wind as as you

know Vietnam got a lot of huge resources

in terms of our wind power. We target to

commission by 2034. Uh this one is we

working together with our

uh our national oil company Petronas

looking into this. Uh we have more or

less completed the pre prefs study. uh

now we are discussing with the of course

uh apart from the power to be used in

Malaysia as well as uh imported to

Singapore. Yeah. So now we are in the

final stage uh discussing with the MA as

well with the SAMCO and so forth. Okay.

Uh number three is Sraa interconnection.

We target to complete by 2036. All just

information all these connection are two

subc cables. Uh subc cables. uh the

first one the Vietnam site is about

almost 800 kilometer of subse

uh in fact yesterday I went to the site

the landing site uh at the Kotto near

the we call it Kandis uh is a beautiful

place yeah uh even uh based on study on

the seabed that earlier that from

different study I think it's quite

feasible to land there yeah uh so the

other one are looking for is a Sraawa

interconnection with about up to two gig

Sra you have a lot of hydro there uh

it's going to land from sadi in slawat

land in uh uh sidili we identify three

location in sideli there uh to further

decide uh which one is the best

locations uh that one will be connected

to our main grid later and up to 2 gig

hydro slawa have enormous potential of

hydro uh resource and then uh number

four is on the uh currently we have uh 250

250

megawatt connection to the Singapore. Uh

we uh

uh plan to introduce another link we

call it second link uh up to two gig. Uh

we on the fin already final stage on the

basically identifying before the full as

can be done. In fact uh today we're

going to yesterday we have signed a

joint development agreement with

Singapore power and SGI

uh to develop this second link

interconnection up to 2 gig uh the final

one will be uh from uh Sumatra to penal

Mia Sumatra in Praang uh contact to the

where in Malakaong

there's about sub cable about 50

kilometer uh the rest is all the

transmission 500 KB line. Of course,

there's all converter station there.

Okay. Uh that's only the intro daughter.

What's the challenge? Then interesting

part. So what's the challenge? I'll just

uh uh give to you the two things that we

are facing now. Uh which I'll go further

later in elaborate on this. First uh

what's the challenge? I think uh the

first thing we should do is we shall get

our house in order in such a way that we

going to increase the our grid capacity

in the peninsula before we are receiving

all these juice from the rest of the

country. So we are focusing on upgrading

of our transmission lines uh capacity reconductoring

reconductoring

uh in fact uh we have a challenge uh as

you all know uh Malaysia strive to have

a major hub for data center recently we

have quite for the last two or three

years we have quite a lot of uh

application as well we have commission

number of data center data center is

we'll know consume a lot of power and

then uh then we can take this

opportunity import from the power from

the rest of the green energy from the

rest of Asan country. So we can so the

challenge now is to have this uh uh

capac uh this grid to be uh upgraded

everywhere. And uh second thing that uh

just quick one uh just to share others

challenge that we have a crossber

alignment uh we have the mutual

agreement with the rest of the aan

country interconnection capacity uh

whether the subc or the grid on the

network itself uh for example that from

Vietnam side landing there in clant

there candis uh inshallah we're going to

build uh a new we call it new 500 KV

East coast corridor to be connected to

the west coast corridor. So west coast

corridor. So we have a kind of loop

there. Uh we are building about 800

kilome 500 KB transmission line. The

good things that uh we are ready for

this. In fact now we are in the phase of

acquiring the land. Okay. uh the

challenge that of course uh uh when we

know there are project coming uh the the

price you know all this land price and

so so there's a quite a number of

challenge there so uh uh okay uh and

then uh grid reliability uh okay uh to

ensure the grid is reliable uh resilient

uh we have to invest in advanced

technology and modernize the grid uh

regulatory framework uh also another

thing that uh we are looking into for

example we are IBR under incentive based

regul uh regulation uh whereby the link

should be under merchant I believe so

whether at the interfacing

uh there's a quite a challenge whether

will that be uh some sort of clear

boundary between the merchant link and

as well as the regulated

in France

Uh other thing that uh challenges is

that the

uh financing part uh the economic

justification sometimes uh this

interconnection uh basically

basically

uh need a lot of money.

So you should have a willing buyer and

willing seller. At the end of the day

the offtaker is very important whether

the price is uh is competitive enough to

drive uh this project. Uh there's uh

several number of challenge they are

facing now. Thank you Dr.

>> Yes. Thank you Mr. Rahim uh for the

insights and also quite uh comprehensive

perspectives from Malaysian side. Um I

think uh yeah uh there are so many

challenges and also there are so many

exciting projects um area is a think

tank now changing to also focus more on

project level how we can help to

facilitate so hope we can make more

contributions um uh more importantly I

think uh since we have you talking about

money also uh and there are so many uh

projects uh with varieties of challenges

so I think uh private sector should be

able to you know uh make their

contributions by becoming uh one of the

important uh type of uh partners.

Therefore uh my next question to uh Mr.

Yaki from Kai Electric is um uh I

understand that your company has rich

experience especially in overseas market

like Europe. Therefore, maybe you can

shed some light on, you know, in these

um uh APG projects in Asham uh how we

can mobilize uh private capital um share

uh you know learning from the external

experiences. Thank you. Yeah, thank you

for your questions and I already

explained in my presentation but uh I

would like to uh highlight again so that

if the private sector joined such kind

of the big the capital project uh that

we need uh to secure the appropriate

return uh with the the stable and the predictable return mechanism supported

predictable return mechanism supported by the government. So the uh without

by the government. So the uh without such the the stable uh stream uh scheme

such the the stable uh stream uh scheme the we the private sector is it's quite

the we the private sector is it's quite difficult to join the project and also

difficult to join the project and also that I I guess that it's quite difficult

that I I guess that it's quite difficult to provide a finance from the financial

to provide a finance from the financial sectors. So the I strongly expect the

sectors. So the I strongly expect the government to support that to establish

government to support that to establish such a stable revenue scheme in the uh

such a stable revenue scheme in the uh ACM power grid uh business. I learned a

ACM power grid uh business. I learned a lot from the UK and Germany the project

lot from the UK and Germany the project the the government supported quite the

the the government supported quite the massive uh to uh involve the private

massive uh to uh involve the private sectors for the such the big project. So

sectors for the such the big project. So I believe the the this kind of the

I believe the the this kind of the phenomenon is coming to the Asian

phenomenon is coming to the Asian regions to create the such stable power

regions to create the such stable power grid system.

grid system. >> Thank you Mr. Yagi. Um yes um uh I

>> Thank you Mr. Yagi. Um yes um uh I strongly agree with you the uh suitable

strongly agree with you the uh suitable business models uh supported by

business models uh supported by government with uh policies and also

government with uh policies and also other facilitations like from

other facilitations like from institutional side the regulatory side

institutional side the regulatory side to ensure stable stream of revenue that

to ensure stable stream of revenue that is uh key for successful financing and

is uh key for successful financing and then attract private uh uh partners. Um

then attract private uh uh partners. Um so uh in this regard maybe we can uh

so uh in this regard maybe we can uh have some learnings from uh those uh sub

have some learnings from uh those uh sub regions in Ashan that started early uh

regions in Ashan that started early uh to um conduct the um uh to to uh explore

to um conduct the um uh to to uh explore the integration of regional markets and

the integration of regional markets and therefore you know this is related to um

therefore you know this is related to um the uh stable stream. Therefore uh may I

the uh stable stream. Therefore uh may I move on to Mr. Ku? Uh yes uh regarding

move on to Mr. Ku? Uh yes uh regarding the um you know we we we know that ADB

the um you know we we we know that ADB engaged quite early in the GMS uh region

engaged quite early in the GMS uh region development. So uh I I wonder uh if you

development. So uh I I wonder uh if you can share with us any uh key lessons uh

can share with us any uh key lessons uh we learned from there uh and also if

we learned from there uh and also if possible perhaps also some updates on

possible perhaps also some updates on the latest progress uh from GMS site.

the latest progress uh from GMS site. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Um so ASEAN covers

>> All right. Thank you. Um so ASEAN covers the 10 countries but then um the GMS

the 10 countries but then um the GMS part within the ASEAN you know is

part within the ASEAN you know is limited to um uh few countries in the um

limited to um uh few countries in the um uh the Meon area and if you look at it

uh the Meon area and if you look at it um Lao Vietnam they are connected some

um Lao Vietnam they are connected some part of it uh Cambodia Vietnam as well

part of it uh Cambodia Vietnam as well and then uh Lao Thailand uh of course

and then uh Lao Thailand uh of course and then so uh there are lot of progress

and then so uh there are lot of progress already there and then ADB has been part

already there and then ADB has been part of uh the development um for these um um

of uh the development um for these um um projects in mainly IP projects there. Uh

projects in mainly IP projects there. Uh recent one is the Monzen winds project

recent one is the Monzen winds project which uh is a 600 megawatt wind u

which uh is a 600 megawatt wind u project uh export from Lao to Vietnam.

project uh export from Lao to Vietnam. uh COD was uh August uh this year and

uh COD was uh August uh this year and then this is one of the flagship project

then this is one of the flagship project that we structured uh with the blended

that we structured uh with the blended financing solution and then also uh some

financing solution and then also uh some oft um uh risk mitigation and um you can

oft um uh risk mitigation and um you can see these are more bilateral connections

see these are more bilateral connections and these are possible. I think the

and these are possible. I think the challenge is to look at the power market

challenge is to look at the power market developments uh with the multiple

developments uh with the multiple parties and moving away you know or or

parties and moving away you know or or beyond the typical long-term PPA to more

beyond the typical long-term PPA to more of uh the market development. So uh

of uh the market development. So uh these are the new challenges that uh we

these are the new challenges that uh we should be working in the context of uh

should be working in the context of uh as

as >> yes uh thank you Mr. Ketu for sharing

>> yes uh thank you Mr. Ketu for sharing the um from ADB's uh stance. Um so uh I

the um from ADB's uh stance. Um so uh I think we have very uh limited time uh

think we have very uh limited time uh left for us. So uh allow me to throw

left for us. So uh allow me to throw another round of questions but uh I

another round of questions but uh I would like to request all panelists to

would like to request all panelists to uh give me very concise response maybe

uh give me very concise response maybe within one minute. Very short. Yeah. So

within one minute. Very short. Yeah. So my questions I try to also be uh quick

my questions I try to also be uh quick and short. Um from ACE the think tank

and short. Um from ACE the think tank point of view you have the big picture.

point of view you have the big picture. So uh can I invite you to comment more

So uh can I invite you to comment more on um the uh sort of uh expectations of

on um the uh sort of uh expectations of private sector and APG uh and and the

private sector and APG uh and and the government sector to promote uh APG uh

government sector to promote uh APG uh perhaps linking these to the uh enhance

perhaps linking these to the uh enhance theou what additional expectations we uh

theou what additional expectations we uh could have for these two groups private

could have for these two groups private sector and government sector.

sector and government sector. >> Yes. Um thank you. So I think uh we've

>> Yes. Um thank you. So I think uh we've we've heard from uh Babarim as well that

we've heard from uh Babarim as well that u the more and more uh projects are

u the more and more uh projects are initiated and developed and a lot of

initiated and developed and a lot of that it's also long distance subcables

that it's also long distance subcables as well. So there are projects that is

as well. So there are projects that is new to us which is requires not only the

new to us which is requires not only the utilities but also the private um uh

utilities but also the private um uh contributors as well. Um so basically

contributors as well. Um so basically what's needed is the how the the

what's needed is the how the the framework basically uh because this kind

framework basically uh because this kind of projects involve multi-arties but

of projects involve multi-arties but also multi countries as well with

also multi countries as well with different regulatory regime. So I think

different regulatory regime. So I think there should be um a framework where the

there should be um a framework where the government to government could sit down

government to government could sit down together to figure out how this

together to figure out how this different parties could collaborate and

different parties could collaborate and include uh how to include the private um

include uh how to include the private um uh contributors or like private

uh contributors or like private involvement in um developing this

involvement in um developing this projects because I think from the

projects because I think from the private sectors they need a clarity on

private sectors they need a clarity on policy and regulatory framework for them

policy and regulatory framework for them to be able to to see that this is a a

to be able to to see that this is a a business that they can work and um how

business that they can work and um how to derisk uh this kind of projects

to derisk uh this kind of projects especially for the like subc um projects

especially for the like subc um projects that requires uh a lot of expertise and

that requires uh a lot of expertise and a lot of uh capital as well.

a lot of uh capital as well. >> Thanks Shani. Um I think uh next I would

>> Thanks Shani. Um I think uh next I would like to move on to the country

like to move on to the country perspective again uh from TMBB um you

perspective again uh from TMBB um you talk about you know enhancing uh grid

talk about you know enhancing uh grid capacity so that all these wonderful

capacity so that all these wonderful project can uh take place uh perhaps

project can uh take place uh perhaps with uh accelerated developments. So uh

with uh accelerated developments. So uh c could you help us explain uh more

c could you help us explain uh more about the aspects of the grid

about the aspects of the grid development uh that should be uh

development uh that should be uh prioritized uh in future and also uh

prioritized uh in future and also uh linking this to uh their significance uh

linking this to uh their significance uh in Malaysia's energy transition and

in Malaysia's energy transition and regional connectivity issues. Yeah,

regional connectivity issues. Yeah, thank you.

thank you. >> Uh thank you brother. Basically uh for

>> Uh thank you brother. Basically uh for TMBB currently for the grid expansion uh

TMBB currently for the grid expansion uh we are focusing on three area. one is uh

we are focusing on three area. one is uh try to get our re to be connected

try to get our re to be connected anywhere anytime in the grid. Okay. So

anywhere anytime in the grid. Okay. So we are in the middle of crafting a new

we are in the middle of crafting a new re zone third part of it. Okay. Second

re zone third part of it. Okay. Second is the support the APG and uh the

is the support the APG and uh the interconnections. Uh third one will be

interconnections. Uh third one will be the to serve the demand. Currently

the to serve the demand. Currently Malaysia have a significant increase of

Malaysia have a significant increase of uh power required for data center. We

uh power required for data center. We are talking about 25 gigs in 10 years

are talking about 25 gigs in 10 years time almost double

time almost double the current demand that we have that is

the current demand that we have that is on the on the pre-construct stage some

on the on the pre-construct stage some on the supply application stage some on

on the supply application stage some on the energy supply agreement stage some

the energy supply agreement stage some within the construction. Currently our

within the construction. Currently our data center connected is about three gig

data center connected is about three gig about almost three gig. So we have

about almost three gig. So we have commissioned about 20 numbers of

commissioned about 20 numbers of subision just to support this uh data

subision just to support this uh data center and then the the number is going.

center and then the the number is going. So we can see the huge demand there and

So we can see the huge demand there and then they are willing to go for the

then they are willing to go for the clean energy. So what by hope or by

clean energy. So what by hope or by group uh we need to upgrade our capacity

group uh we need to upgrade our capacity while we are doing increasing our capac

while we are doing increasing our capac uh our network. uh remember that uh we

uh our network. uh remember that uh we used to have a 500 KV network meant for

used to have a 500 KV network meant for the backbone of the country now it's not

the backbone of the country now it's not that the situations we have to build a

that the situations we have to build a 500 KV especially for this data center

500 KV especially for this data center for the customer side so this is quite a

for the customer side so this is quite a significant the the good thing is that

significant the the good thing is that the government has introduced this crest

the government has introduced this crest h with the firm capacity about 20 cent

h with the firm capacity about 20 cent per kilow hour 40 cent for non-firm

per kilow hour 40 cent for non-firm capacity

capacity uh 40 cents or per kilowatt hour so this

uh 40 cents or per kilowatt hour so this kind of uh promote uh uh this all this

kind of uh promote uh uh this all this desire to use a clean energy. So we need

desire to use a clean energy. So we need this actually this uh interconnection

this actually this uh interconnection actually the clean energy because nature

actually the clean energy because nature itself not have enough.

itself not have enough. So that be my

So that be my my for that one first one the second

my for that one first one the second part is on the financing part uh we also

part is on the financing part uh we also explaining the business model the cap

explaining the business model the cap and flow model the purely merching or

and flow model the purely merching or even a related model and so I think uh

even a related model and so I think uh we don't much time so we go to that

we don't much time so we go to that later maybe okay thank you

later maybe okay thank you >> yes thank you Mr. Rahim let's uh look

>> yes thank you Mr. Rahim let's uh look forward to more synergy from technology

forward to more synergy from technology and uh government planning uh this

and uh government planning uh this climate ambitions and private sector

climate ambitions and private sector efforts as well as from uh importantly

efforts as well as from uh importantly uh support from financing institutes. Um

uh support from financing institutes. Um next uh um allow me to uh zoom in

next uh um allow me to uh zoom in further more uh I would like to explore

further more uh I would like to explore uh for opinions from uh Kai Electric Mr.

uh for opinions from uh Kai Electric Mr. Yucky um uh based on your experience

Yucky um uh based on your experience about your projects in this this region

about your projects in this this region uh what are the uh barriers uh key

uh what are the uh barriers uh key barriers to realizing great network uh

barriers to realizing great network uh project uh projects um and uh how can

project uh projects um and uh how can these challenges be overcome maybe you

these challenges be overcome maybe you share insights

share insights >> yeah thank you and uh I'm sorry to

>> yeah thank you and uh I'm sorry to repeat again so the the healthy revenue

repeat again so the the healthy revenue mechanism is quite important but uh as

mechanism is quite important but uh as long as there is a such kind of the

long as there is a such kind of the healthy uh revenue mechanism in the ACM

healthy uh revenue mechanism in the ACM power grid business and we are happy to

power grid business and we are happy to join the as a private sector to invest

join the as a private sector to invest in the project but the still that there

in the project but the still that there is some you know barriers and the

is some you know barriers and the challenges in this market the one of the

challenges in this market the one of the most difficult challenges right now is

most difficult challenges right now is to procure the subc cable and also the

to procure the subc cable and also the main transformer the homer or other

main transformer the homer or other equipment for the uh big project. So the

equipment for the uh big project. So the supply chain is quite the the

supply chain is quite the the competitive right now. So the if we want

competitive right now. So the if we want to procure the timely manner we have to

to procure the timely manner we have to ex access accelerate to uh you know the

ex access accelerate to uh you know the make a order to the suppliers but the

make a order to the suppliers but the before that we would like to establish

before that we would like to establish the healthy uh revenue mechanism with

the healthy uh revenue mechanism with the financing institutions. So the so

the financing institutions. So the so that that's why I'm

that that's why I'm always the talking about the revenue

always the talking about the revenue mechanism but the yes the if we are

mechanism but the yes the if we are facing the challenges to the supply

facing the challenges to the supply chain uh we can like to discuss about

chain uh we can like to discuss about this matter with Japanese government and

this matter with Japanese government and also the Japanese manufacturers uh to

also the Japanese manufacturers uh to procure the timely in timely manner for

procure the timely in timely manner for the project to accelerate uh to achieve

the project to accelerate uh to achieve the our target uh completion date. Thank

the our target uh completion date. Thank you. Yes, thanks for revealing more

you. Yes, thanks for revealing more details about the challenges uh that

details about the challenges uh that we're facing especially the uh technical

we're facing especially the uh technical ones that are embedding. Um but I I

ones that are embedding. Um but I I believe that uh with um this cohort of

believe that uh with um this cohort of uh partners uh here from our community

uh partners uh here from our community uh we will find a solution with better

uh we will find a solution with better coordination and better planning. Um

coordination and better planning. Um next uh uh and also probably my uh my

next uh uh and also probably my uh my last opportunity to raise my question

last opportunity to raise my question here. Uh I would like to uh raise this

here. Uh I would like to uh raise this one to um ADB Mr. Ku. So um uh because

one to um ADB Mr. Ku. So um uh because uh multilateral power trade has been

uh multilateral power trade has been mentioned just now several times and we

mentioned just now several times and we also uh from think tank point of view

also uh from think tank point of view fully understand the importance of this

fully understand the importance of this one to generate return to this uh

one to generate return to this uh investment uh on the APG hardware.

investment uh on the APG hardware. Therefore, may I ask from ADB's uh

Therefore, may I ask from ADB's uh consideration

consideration um how uh can you play some roles to

um how uh can you play some roles to support uh the development of all forms

support uh the development of all forms of crossber power trade in Asha? Please

of crossber power trade in Asha? Please share your insights.

share your insights. >> Thank you. I think asan ambition is to

>> Thank you. I think asan ambition is to connect all the 10 countries. I think

connect all the 10 countries. I think it'll be 11 soon. Um and then to

it'll be 11 soon. Um and then to energize, integrate grid to grid. But

energize, integrate grid to grid. But again um I think how

again um I think how regional power trade develop in other

regional power trade develop in other part of the world also tells us is that

part of the world also tells us is that it starts small it starts bilateral. So

it starts small it starts bilateral. So our approach to look is to look at the

our approach to look is to look at the bilateral trade and then whether that

bilateral trade and then whether that works or not and then go to the sub

works or not and then go to the sub region like the GMS um sub region

region like the GMS um sub region framework and BMPA could be another one

framework and BMPA could be another one or different part of a Assean uh power

or different part of a Assean uh power grid may be able to look at this

grid may be able to look at this multilateral power trade for this uh we

multilateral power trade for this uh we do uh also provide technical assistance

do uh also provide technical assistance and knowledge support and then we are

and knowledge support and then we are going to conduct a uh shadow trading

going to conduct a uh shadow trading exercise a pilot shadow trading. So it's

exercise a pilot shadow trading. So it's a scenario analysis using the real data

a scenario analysis using the real data and the real transaction uh on a on a

and the real transaction uh on a on a hypothetical basis u uh in in focusing

hypothetical basis u uh in in focusing on the greater American sub region and

on the greater American sub region and so that's the utilities there and the

so that's the utilities there and the players there will be able to experience

players there will be able to experience what it means to trade and then what's

what it means to trade and then what's benefits you can get out of it. So by

benefits you can get out of it. So by going through a small steps practice uh

going through a small steps practice uh I think you build the confidence and

I think you build the confidence and find the gaps that need to be um

find the gaps that need to be um improved and this is how we want to

improved and this is how we want to approach uh to support the multilateral

approach uh to support the multilateral trade from this I would say software

trade from this I would say software side in addition to hardware side. Thank

side in addition to hardware side. Thank you.

you. >> Thank you Mr. Ku. I fully agree with you

>> Thank you Mr. Ku. I fully agree with you this uh practical uh approach uh

this uh practical uh approach uh starting with the solid background uh of

starting with the solid background uh of solid ground of uh bilateral trade then

solid ground of uh bilateral trade then we uh increase the flexibility uh by of

we uh increase the flexibility uh by of course uh doing some pilot or experiment

course uh doing some pilot or experiment uh projects first. Yes. Uh and area is

uh projects first. Yes. Uh and area is actually conducting relevant studies. So

actually conducting relevant studies. So hopefully uh we we can work together on

hopefully uh we we can work together on this. Yeah. Um so uh without further ado

this. Yeah. Um so uh without further ado uh maybe I um yes we still have some

uh maybe I um yes we still have some time uh let's open uh to the floor to

time uh let's open uh to the floor to invite uh uh maybe uh two questions yeah

invite uh uh maybe uh two questions yeah to to our um panelist here. Do we have

to to our um panelist here. Do we have any?

any? We actually have like four minutes. So

We actually have like four minutes. So um I think APG topic is important enough

um I think APG topic is important enough and uh all this Yes, please.

Please introduce yourself as well briefly.

briefly. >> Yeah. Hello. Good morning. My name is

>> Yeah. Hello. Good morning. My name is Ekko. Uh I'm from Indonesia and uh my

Ekko. Uh I'm from Indonesia and uh my company now is promoting the large hydro

company now is promoting the large hydro scale power plant in Kalimantan. Uh we

scale power plant in Kalimantan. Uh we have the potential around 9 gawatt. But

have the potential around 9 gawatt. But you know the main problem is the

you know the main problem is the offtaker ratio in Kimatan is very low.

offtaker ratio in Kimatan is very low. currently only two giga in Indonesia. So

currently only two giga in Indonesia. So I think from my perspective the most

I think from my perspective the most important thing in the APG I think we

important thing in the APG I think we need to get the support from the each

need to get the support from the each government because it's not only about

government because it's not only about the power trade but also how the

the power trade but also how the economic can be bilaterally or

economic can be bilaterally or multilaterally can be benefited by each

multilaterally can be benefited by each countries of Asian. We learned also from

countries of Asian. We learned also from the crossber project from Indonesian to

the crossber project from Indonesian to Singapore though there is a kind of a

Singapore though there is a kind of a formality agreement has been already

formality agreement has been already signed but to materialize the project is

signed but to materialize the project is also not easy because there is a

also not easy because there is a conflict from the geopolitic

conflict from the geopolitic perspective. So in this context I would

perspective. So in this context I would like to understand how APG can address

like to understand how APG can address the issue. So then the

the issue. So then the uh APG is not only talking about the

uh APG is not only talking about the power trade but also how the economic of

power trade but also how the economic of each Asian can support each other. Thank

each Asian can support each other. Thank you.

you. >> I think that's an excellent question and

>> I think that's an excellent question and uh it's relevant to the expertise of

uh it's relevant to the expertise of everyone here. So may I maybe start with

everyone here. So may I maybe start with this and then go around very quickly.

this and then go around very quickly. >> Yeah. I think um one of the uh point on

>> Yeah. I think um one of the uh point on the enhance and moyu um that we agree

the enhance and moyu um that we agree among the asan member state is to

among the asan member state is to enhance our regional planning. So I

enhance our regional planning. So I think in realizing the the benefits or

think in realizing the the benefits or like uh understanding what are the

like uh understanding what are the actual benefit of this interconnections

actual benefit of this interconnections cannot be seen if you are only planning

cannot be seen if you are only planning within your boundaries or like your

within your boundaries or like your country itself. So you need to have like

country itself. So you need to have like either sub regional like for example in

either sub regional like for example in Kalimantan if you see like you have like

Kalimantan if you see like you have like 9 gawatt uh 9 gawatt potential of

9 gawatt uh 9 gawatt potential of renewables perhaps the offtaker itself

renewables perhaps the offtaker itself is not Indonesia but also the

is not Indonesia but also the surrounding countries as well but in

surrounding countries as well but in order to see that you need a subregional

order to see that you need a subregional or even like regional um sort of like

or even like regional um sort of like planning so that this results of this

planning so that this results of this regional planning is basically to to

regional planning is basically to to make the confidence and to convince the

make the confidence and to convince the stakeholders within within it's the

stakeholders within within it's the governor what are the economic benefits

governor what are the economic benefits that they can gain in a wider manner not

that they can gain in a wider manner not only looking from their own jurisdiction

only looking from their own jurisdiction so I think on the regional cooperation

so I think on the regional cooperation level that's uh what ACE is trying to

level that's uh what ACE is trying to facilitate uh to work with different

facilitate uh to work with different utilities and different government as

utilities and different government as well to um exercise and to um enhance

well to um exercise and to um enhance this kind of practice because then at

this kind of practice because then at the end like mentioned by the gentleman

the end like mentioned by the gentleman here it how to turn it into real

here it how to turn it into real projects right and then the how what uh

projects right and then the how what uh like interconnection ctions project is

like interconnection ctions project is mostly approved by the government. So I

mostly approved by the government. So I think it's important to also increase

think it's important to also increase the confidence and the buy in of the

the confidence and the buy in of the governments and one of the uh way is to

governments and one of the uh way is to have like a better regional planning to

have like a better regional planning to answer that

answer that >> we quick one okay uh to on the same note

>> we quick one okay uh to on the same note with uh Shani point just now uh as we

with uh Shani point just now uh as we all know each country have their own we

all know each country have their own we call it transmission development

call it transmission development planning such as in Malaysia uh we have

planning such as in Malaysia uh we have this uh we call it annual transmission

this uh we call it annual transmission development planning

development planning We do planning for 10 years. This

We do planning for 10 years. This planning is under the license condition

planning is under the license condition from the regulator. So I think EGAT also

from the regulator. So I think EGAT also have the same thing. I think in

have the same thing. I think in Indonesia have also have the same thing.

Indonesia have also have the same thing. 10 years rolling review every year. This

10 years rolling review every year. This plan actually is approved by the

plan actually is approved by the government where the investment is

government where the investment is approved.

approved. So imagine if we can have a Assean

So imagine if we can have a Assean transmission grid planning

transmission grid planning is now each countries tend to have can

is now each countries tend to have can their own if you have the ASEAN

their own if you have the ASEAN transmission grid planning endorsed by

transmission grid planning endorsed by the AM.

the AM. So I believe echo your question one of

So I believe echo your question one of maybe we call it integrated system

maybe we call it integrated system planning for ASEAN approved by the

planning for ASEAN approved by the government. So definitely we get a

government. So definitely we get a support from the government. That's my

support from the government. That's my point.

>> Uh thank you for your comment and the questions. I totally agree with you and

questions. I totally agree with you and I'm not appropriate person to answer

I'm not appropriate person to answer your question. I agree I'm standing by

your question. I agree I'm standing by you. So the uh but uh I would like to

you. So the uh but uh I would like to say that uh you are correct. uh the

say that uh you are correct. uh the benefit for not only the private sector,

benefit for not only the private sector, not only for the one government but also

not only for the one government but also that we have to consider the uh the

that we have to consider the uh the benefit for both countries, both

benefit for both countries, both regions, both business partners, the all

regions, both business partners, the all the stakeholders. The it's quite

the stakeholders. The it's quite important to consider the what is the

important to consider the what is the most economic economical and

most economic economical and environmental beneficial project for all

environmental beneficial project for all each regions and countries. Thank you.

each regions and countries. Thank you. Uh yeah thank you. Uh it's a it's a very

Uh yeah thank you. Uh it's a it's a very good question. Uh I think this issue of

good question. Uh I think this issue of uh who benefit who benefits and who

uh who benefit who benefits and who doesn't or who benefits more has been a

doesn't or who benefits more has been a big issue uh in this uh power grid. And

big issue uh in this uh power grid. And let's not forget this asan power grid is

let's not forget this asan power grid is not about the wire and then pylons. It's

not about the wire and then pylons. It's also about the economic impact. And this

also about the economic impact. And this is why uh the I think asan um body

is why uh the I think asan um body started to uh understand that this is

started to uh understand that this is not just an energy issue. It's a finance

not just an energy issue. It's a finance but it's also an economy and there's a

but it's also an economy and there's a interface meeting at the ministerial

interface meeting at the ministerial level to really appreciate how important

level to really appreciate how important APG is and then APG financing. Now at

APG is and then APG financing. Now at ADB uh we are looking at this uh

ADB uh we are looking at this uh benefits assessment of uh as power grids

benefits assessment of uh as power grids for exporters for producer surplus and

for exporters for producer surplus and for consumer on the consumer surplus.

for consumer on the consumer surplus. But we also want to look at different

But we also want to look at different stakeholders have a different impact

stakeholders have a different impact including the um rural and then uh more

including the um rural and then uh more um uh I would say marginalized you know

um uh I would say marginalized you know community and they need to be part of

community and they need to be part of this APG story. So this is why we are

this APG story. So this is why we are working on our knowledge support on to

working on our knowledge support on to understands the impact of APG for the

understands the impact of APG for the whole um for the whole economy.

whole um for the whole economy. >> Thank you all for sharing uh your

>> Thank you all for sharing uh your insights. Uh I realize that the numbers

insights. Uh I realize that the numbers uh on the screen are not ticking for us

uh on the screen are not ticking for us anymore. So probably that's a sign uh we

anymore. So probably that's a sign uh we have to uh wrap up here. Uh I think uh

have to uh wrap up here. Uh I think uh we have uh actually taking this

we have uh actually taking this opportunity of the session fully

opportunity of the session fully inspired each other. Uh and also I was

inspired each other. Uh and also I was supposed to make a quick uh concluding

supposed to make a quick uh concluding remarks but I think every one of us have

remarks but I think every one of us have our own version already. So much uh

our own version already. So much uh ideas and information have already been

ideas and information have already been shared. Uh I would just like to say one

shared. Uh I would just like to say one thing very quickly that uh uh we have

thing very quickly that uh uh we have this uh like a think tank uh uh ACE and

this uh like a think tank uh uh ACE and also the governments working on the top

also the governments working on the top approach and also uh companies and the

approach and also uh companies and the private uh sector we are working from

private uh sector we are working from the uh bottom up approach joining hands

the uh bottom up approach joining hands with the financial institute to look for

with the financial institute to look for practical uh solutions. So I believe

practical uh solutions. So I believe soon uh with the new m momentum from u

soon uh with the new m momentum from u uh the newou and also ASAC uh these two

uh the newou and also ASAC uh these two ends will meet each other and dedicate

ends will meet each other and dedicate us to uh solutions perfect solutions to

us to uh solutions perfect solutions to accelerate APG and MPT. So thank you

accelerate APG and MPT. So thank you very much for giving us this

very much for giving us this opportunity. Uh would you join me in

opportunity. Uh would you join me in thanking the panelist for their

thanking the panelist for their wonderful sharing? Thank you.

wonderful sharing? Thank you. >> Thank you very much to Dr. Lee and our

>> Thank you very much to Dr. Lee and our panelists. Could I please invite our

panelists. Could I please invite our moderator and panelist to the center of

moderator and panelist to the center of the stage for a quick photo opportunity

the stage for a quick photo opportunity together?

a reflection perhaps of uh positive momentum moving forward. Ladies and

momentum moving forward. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you once again Dr. Lee,

gentlemen, thank you once again Dr. Lee, Miss Nadil Shani, Mr Abdul Rahi, Mr.

Miss Nadil Shani, Mr Abdul Rahi, Mr. Yagi, and of course, Mr. Amitsu Hashi

Yagi, and of course, Mr. Amitsu Hashi for those fantastic insights into the

for those fantastic insights into the ASEAN power grid. And while

ASEAN power grid. And while infrastructure policy and financing

infrastructure policy and financing hurdles certainly exist, the updates and

hurdles certainly exist, the updates and suggestions shared from our speakers

suggestions shared from our speakers represent a positive step forward to

represent a positive step forward to making the ASEAN power grid a reality.

making the ASEAN power grid a reality. Ladies and gentlemen, in our second

Ladies and gentlemen, in our second session, we will turn our attention now

session, we will turn our attention now to sustainable bofuel for vehicles.

to sustainable bofuel for vehicles. While electric vehicles continue to

While electric vehicles continue to expand across ASEAN and globally, many

expand across ASEAN and globally, many countries are also advancing the use of

countries are also advancing the use of biodeiesel and bioeanol as practical

biodeiesel and bioeanol as practical lowcarbon options for existing

lowcarbon options for existing combustion engines. Next, we will hear

combustion engines. Next, we will hear from producers, suppliers, and private

from producers, suppliers, and private sector users of sustainable fuels, who

sector users of sustainable fuels, who will share their ongoing initiatives,

will share their ongoing initiatives, the challenges they face, and their

the challenges they face, and their perspectives on the future of bofuels

perspectives on the future of bofuels within the ASAC region. To chair the

within the ASAC region. To chair the session, I'm honored to welcome on stage

session, I'm honored to welcome on stage Dr. Dr. Wirro Chantanakome, senior

Dr. Dr. Wirro Chantanakome, senior consultant on energy policy area as our

consultant on energy policy area as our moderator as well as his panelists.

moderator as well as his panelists. From Malaysia, Mr. Ahmed Adi Alias, vice

From Malaysia, Mr. Ahmed Adi Alias, vice president of refining, marketing and

president of refining, marketing and trading, Petronas from Indonesia, Mr.

trading, Petronas from Indonesia, Mr. Andre Harah, VP business development,

Andre Harah, VP business development, NRE Pamina new and renewable energy.

NRE Pamina new and renewable energy. From Thailand, Mr. Pongat Pomakon,

From Thailand, Mr. Pongat Pomakon, Executive Director of the Energy

Executive Director of the Energy Research Division, Ministry of Energy

Research Division, Ministry of Energy Thailand. And of course, from Japan, Mr.

Thailand. And of course, from Japan, Mr. Prosish executive vice president Toyota

Prosish executive vice president Toyota motor Asia Japan over to you Dr. Wiraat.

motor Asia Japan over to you Dr. Wiraat. >> Thank you very much indeed. I think we

>> Thank you very much indeed. I think we not we don't have much time but we going

not we don't have much time but we going to start right now you know that uh

to start right now you know that uh welcome to this session bofuel for Wo.

welcome to this session bofuel for Wo. So I think you know as you heard uh APG

So I think you know as you heard uh APG is very important but in Assean at the

is very important but in Assean at the same time you know the sustainable

same time you know the sustainable biouels you know I mean it is not just a

biouels you know I mean it is not just a stoppage. I think the the biouels for

stoppage. I think the the biouels for assean is kind of strategic solution for

assean is kind of strategic solution for I mean today transport you know system

I mean today transport you know system especially when electricity I mean uh

especially when electricity I mean uh electricification something like that

electricification something like that may take time. So I think this session

may take time. So I think this session will try to reflect you know on the

will try to reflect you know on the innovation on the cooperation on the

innovation on the cooperation on the vision. So today we have uh our expert

vision. So today we have uh our expert from I would say four countries you know

from I would say four countries you know start from Thailand the department of

start from Thailand the department of alternative energy development and

alternative energy development and efficiency of the ministry of energy of

efficiency of the ministry of energy of Thailand uh and then

Thailand uh and then followed by Petronas followed by Petina

followed by Petronas followed by Petina and Toyota. I'd like you to introduce

and Toyota. I'd like you to introduce yourself anyway. But anyway, without any

yourself anyway. But anyway, without any further ado, we like to hear your

further ado, we like to hear your background maybe a few minute under your

background maybe a few minute under your slide then we come up with a Q&A. So

slide then we come up with a Q&A. So with that, I'd like to invite uh

with that, I'd like to invite uh Minister of Energy first to

Minister of Energy first to introduce yourself and present three

introduce yourself and present three minute. Thank you. Start with Thailand.

minute. Thank you. Start with Thailand. Do you have a paper?

Do you have a paper? >> Thank you uh Dr. Riat and thank you for

>> Thank you uh Dr. Riat and thank you for kind. My name is uh good morning uh

kind. My name is uh good morning uh everyone. Uh my name is Pongak Pongcon

everyone. Uh my name is Pongak Pongcon from Department of Alternative Energy uh

from Department of Alternative Energy uh and efficiency uh ministry of energy

and efficiency uh ministry of energy Thailand and

Thailand and I don't see okay

I don't see okay slide please.

slide please. >> Okay. Okay. Okay.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. uh

uh uh this is because uh I am on only one

uh this is because uh I am on only one from the government side and we start

from the government side and we start from the uh bofuel development plan in

from the uh bofuel development plan in in Thailand and and uh this is a show

in Thailand and and uh this is a show about the bio in Thailand. uh in the

about the bio in Thailand. uh in the past we have a long history about our

past we have a long history about our Bfield in Thailand and uh right now uh

Bfield in Thailand and uh right now uh we have a bio and body bar cell in

we have a bio and body bar cell in action and we you can see in this slide

action and we you can see in this slide we have a various uh branding ratio of

we have a various uh branding ratio of ethanol and bar cell and uh for the

ethanol and bar cell and uh for the future uh we uh plan to uh expand to our

future uh we uh plan to uh expand to our field like a uh s for session field for

field like a uh s for session field for uh sector and also we focusing on the

uh sector and also we focusing on the hydrogen. This is the uh as you may know

hydrogen. This is the uh as you may know uh EV coming uh for the the replace for

uh EV coming uh for the the replace for the uh uh IC in uh compensation engine

the uh uh IC in uh compensation engine but uh hydrogen is also have a operative

but uh hydrogen is also have a operative for the like uh uh heavy duty because uh

for the like uh uh heavy duty because uh limitation of the energy density of a

limitation of the energy density of a battery. Uh so we have a hydrogen for

battery. Uh so we have a hydrogen for for our future and for the uh promotion

for our future and for the uh promotion bofuel in Thailand we do a lot of thing.

bofuel in Thailand we do a lot of thing. Yeah. Uh uh as you know uh we bofuel of

Yeah. Uh uh as you know uh we bofuel of normally expensive than the fossil fuel.

normally expensive than the fossil fuel. When we bring bofuel with uh fossil fuel

When we bring bofuel with uh fossil fuel the price uh increase and in Thailand we

the price uh increase and in Thailand we use uh like uh like a price incentive.

use uh like uh like a price incentive. We sub subsidy uh the price by use oil

We sub subsidy uh the price by use oil fund to uh incentivize for the people to

fund to uh incentivize for the people to use a bio and also we uh develop the

use a bio and also we uh develop the specification for the bio bodies cell

specification for the bio bodies cell and bio internal. Uh before we blending

and bio internal. Uh before we blending bofuel with the uh normal field uh we

bofuel with the uh normal field uh we need to adjust some parameter for the

need to adjust some parameter for the bio biodeiesel. Uh let me uh give you an

bio biodeiesel. Uh let me uh give you an example. Uh in the past we uh increase

example. Uh in the past we uh increase the present brain of the bio biod cell.

the present brain of the bio biod cell. We need to adjust some parameter like a

We need to adjust some parameter like a monocistry in decrease the monocy in in

monocistry in decrease the monocy in in bed cell and also reduce uh like uh

bed cell and also reduce uh like uh water content in in uh the cell and uh

water content in in uh the cell and uh we work uh together with uh like oil

we work uh together with uh like oil company and automobile uh uh to adjust

company and automobile uh uh to adjust uh uh and do the research development

uh uh and do the research development like uh uh compatible material and do

like uh uh compatible material and do research about rotate and field test and

research about rotate and field test and uh do uh research about uh energy

uh do uh research about uh energy efficiency and

this is a slide I show you a long history of the bio field in Thailand. uh

history of the bio field in Thailand. uh you can see the B represent for the bio

you can see the B represent for the bio cell and E for represent for the bio

cell and E for represent for the bio channel and the number follow uh uh of

channel and the number follow uh uh of the B and E is represent to the uh how

the B and E is represent to the uh how many% brand of the bio and bio on uh in

many% brand of the bio and bio on uh in the gasoline and in the cell you can see

the gasoline and in the cell you can see we have a various uh um percent of the

we have a various uh um percent of the bio cell and bioeninal

bio cell and bioeninal and this is uh next two slides Okay,

and this is uh next two slides Okay, this slide and next next slide I will

this slide and next next slide I will give you information about uh set

give you information about uh set occurren set of the bio bio about this.

occurren set of the bio bio about this. You can see this slide you we uh there

You can see this slide you we uh there are 28 external producer and total

are 28 external producer and total capacity about uh 7 millit per day and

capacity about uh 7 millit per day and for the bodies we have uh 14 ber

for the bodies we have uh 14 ber producer and around uh 12 milll per day

producer and around uh 12 milll per day and you can see uh in the bottom of the

and you can see uh in the bottom of the slide this is about the uh volume we use

slide this is about the uh volume we use bio cell and bio and for the challenge

bio cell and bio and for the challenge of the bioell uh we we see the uh

of the bioell uh we we see the uh advancing of the uh EV technology. This

advancing of the uh EV technology. This is the

is the effect to the fossil fuel like the cell

effect to the fossil fuel like the cell and benzene. And uh from the bottom uh

and benzene. And uh from the bottom uh of the this slide you can see uh we do

of the this slide you can see uh we do uh projection last year uh in uh five

uh projection last year uh in uh five year or 10 year the demand of the cell

year or 10 year the demand of the cell and uh gasoline uh will decrease uh

and uh gasoline uh will decrease uh significant increase and also affect to

significant increase and also affect to leading to the uh decrease of the bio

leading to the uh decrease of the bio cell and bioethanol and uh one of the uh

cell and bioethanol and uh one of the uh regulation Ch in Thailand. Uh in the

regulation Ch in Thailand. Uh in the past we use a subsidy from the oil fund

past we use a subsidy from the oil fund and next year we we cannot uh use the

and next year we we cannot uh use the oil fund to subsidy for the bofuel bio

oil fund to subsidy for the bofuel bio and bioenol. Uh this is uh because of

and bioenol. Uh this is uh because of our regulation

our regulation and uh for the future. Yeah. Uh we we uh

and uh for the future. Yeah. Uh we we uh as mentioned we we cannot use bio for

as mentioned we we cannot use bio for the uh and use a subsidy. uh we need to

the uh and use a subsidy. uh we need to adjust the the uh type of uh bio ethanol

adjust the the uh type of uh bio ethanol in the uh fueling station uh to decrease

in the uh fueling station uh to decrease the management cost of the uh uh uh oil

the management cost of the uh uh uh oil company and we also promote the high

company and we also promote the high value product like uh bio oil bio

value product like uh bio oil bio transformer and I also uh uh like uh uh

transformer and I also uh uh like uh uh develop for the s for the uh our future

develop for the s for the uh our future uh for the ev sector and as I mentioned

uh for the ev sector and as I mentioned hydrogen is also for our future. And in

hydrogen is also for our future. And in conclusion, I uh uh want to uh told you

conclusion, I uh uh want to uh told you about Thailand maintain promote uh

about Thailand maintain promote uh bofuel and we need to adjust some uh

bofuel and we need to adjust some uh mechanism and uh we seeking for the uh

mechanism and uh we seeking for the uh opportunity for the new fuel. Thank you

opportunity for the new fuel. Thank you very much.

very much. >> Thank you very much indeed, Mr. Pong.

>> Thank you very much indeed, Mr. Pong. Dr. Pac you have shown the overall

Dr. Pac you have shown the overall picture you know of the bofuels roadmap

picture you know of the bofuels roadmap for Thailand toward decarbonization.

for Thailand toward decarbonization. Indeed actually you know the department

Indeed actually you know the department of the alternative energy development

of the alternative energy development and efficiency or DD I think they play a

and efficiency or DD I think they play a you know kind of important role to

you know kind of important role to support ethanol and biode cell blending

support ethanol and biode cell blending mandates you know from E1020 E285

mandates you know from E1020 E285 toward B20 currently you use B7 right in

toward B20 currently you use B7 right in temporarily just depend on the market

temporarily just depend on the market and now I think that you explore for the

and now I think that you explore for the bio only finally as well right and

bio only finally as well right and obation by field like SA but thank you

obation by field like SA but thank you very much become to you again on this on

very much become to you again on this on the on through the question. So without

the on through the question. So without time limit so I'd like to move on to our

time limit so I'd like to move on to our vice president you know I'd like to

vice president you know I'd like to invite our president uh Dr.

invite our president uh Dr. to be the second speaker from

to be the second speaker from >> not doctor.

>> not doctor. >> It's okay. Introduce yourself please.

>> It's okay. Introduce yourself please. >> All right. Thank you.

Um very quickly I'm Adi heading up the refining marketing trading and

refining marketing trading and of Petronas. um of course all the

of Petronas. um of course all the refineries in Malaysia today um trading

refineries in Malaysia today um trading of crude and lubricant products across

of crude and lubricant products across more than 100 countries under my purview

more than 100 countries under my purview but very quickly um I know there's a

but very quickly um I know there's a time limit and I'll dispense with the

time limit and I'll dispense with the presentries um but thank you for the

presentries um but thank you for the organizers for having me here how are we

organizers for having me here how are we enabling lowcarbon mobility uh Malaysia

enabling lowcarbon mobility uh Malaysia as a country also introduced um B10 and

as a country also introduced um B10 and to some instances B20 so Petronas as the

to some instances B20 so Petronas as the oil manufacturer and producer in

oil manufacturer and producer in Malaysia who are supporting that agenda.

Malaysia who are supporting that agenda. But there are also hard to evade

But there are also hard to evade vehicles if you can call it transport

vehicles if you can call it transport sectors. In this case, if you talk about

sectors. In this case, if you talk about the aviation industry, the marine

the aviation industry, the marine industry,

industry, you know, the current solution to

you know, the current solution to lowcarbon mobility like electric

lowcarbon mobility like electric vehicles may not be able to support

vehicles may not be able to support these industries. And again to provide a

these industries. And again to provide a context um I just recently bought an EV

context um I just recently bought an EV car um I didn't realize how heavy it is

car um I didn't realize how heavy it is but for a 95 kilowatt battery it could

but for a 95 kilowatt battery it could range between 450 to 700 kg and that

range between 450 to 700 kg and that will give you approximately 450

will give you approximately 450 kilometers. So now imagine if you had a

kilometers. So now imagine if you had a plane that would go thousands of

plane that would go thousands of kilometers and how heavy that battery

kilometers and how heavy that battery would be. And therefore the solution to

would be. And therefore the solution to this would be like sustainable aviation

this would be like sustainable aviation fuel as mentioned by the panelist from

fuel as mentioned by the panelist from energy ministry of Thailand.

energy ministry of Thailand. So what are we doing in that area? Um we

So what are we doing in that area? Um we recently took FID of a bofuels refinery

recently took FID of a bofuels refinery in Pungarang which with all intent and

in Pungarang which with all intent and purposes is to manufacture

purposes is to manufacture sustainable aviation fuel over and above

sustainable aviation fuel over and above HVO hydrotrated vegetable oil which is a

HVO hydrotrated vegetable oil which is a straight drop into or a straight drop or

straight drop into or a straight drop or substitute to diesel. Today we have B10,

substitute to diesel. Today we have B10, B20 and I know my neighbors in Indonesia

B20 and I know my neighbors in Indonesia are planning to go to B50 but there are

are planning to go to B50 but there are always challenges around the blend wall

always challenges around the blend wall but if you have HVO as an alternative it

but if you have HVO as an alternative it can be a straight drop and 100% could be

can be a straight drop and 100% could be used to substitute your conventional

used to substitute your conventional diesel and why are we building this

diesel and why are we building this bofuel refinery as most of us would know

bofuel refinery as most of us would know the end to end life cycle of a bio fuel

the end to end life cycle of a bio fuel in this case a hoer technology would

in this case a hoer technology would reduce your carbon footprint between 70

reduce your carbon footprint between 70 to 80%. So that's a significant

to 80%. So that's a significant improvement in terms of us enabling that

improvement in terms of us enabling that lowcarbon fuels into the industry.

lowcarbon fuels into the industry. And of course I I need to mention that

And of course I I need to mention that this bofuel refinery is in collaboration

this bofuel refinery is in collaboration with two other parties in particular

with two other parties in particular Annie of Italy and also Uglina of Japan.

Annie of Italy and also Uglina of Japan. So the challenges some of the key

So the challenges some of the key challenges that we are facing is around

challenges that we are facing is around feed stock and that's why I'll talk a

feed stock and that's why I'll talk a little bit about it later when I give

little bit about it later when I give the opportunity uh I presume we'll do a

the opportunity uh I presume we'll do a little bit of uh you know deliberation

little bit of uh you know deliberation around some of the key challenges around

around some of the key challenges around bofuels.

bofuels. Finally, um, in order for us to make

Finally, um, in order for us to make sure that we have sustainable delivery

sure that we have sustainable delivery of an ecosystem that makes sure that

of an ecosystem that makes sure that bofuels continue to be the transition

bofuels continue to be the transition fuel until we get into

fuel until we get into a real, you know, if I can speak to our

a real, you know, if I can speak to our ambition would probably be pure

ambition would probably be pure electrification, hydrogen as this as the

electrification, hydrogen as this as the final ambition, but in between that in

final ambition, but in between that in order for us to ensure liquid fuel fuel

order for us to ensure liquid fuel fuel is still delivered in a form of a more

is still delivered in a form of a more lower carbon again talking to bofuels

lower carbon again talking to bofuels these are the five pillars that I would

these are the five pillars that I would like to talk to a little bit more but

like to talk to a little bit more but given the time constraint I don't know

given the time constraint I don't know Dr. Was it still three three minutes or

Dr. Was it still three three minutes or five? Because with three minutes my time

five? Because with three minutes my time is up but very quickly four four my time

is up but very quickly four four my time is still up. No but feed stock very

is still up. No but feed stock very important element because today the

important element because today the hephera technology uses um feed stock

hephera technology uses um feed stock which is all competing around the same

which is all competing around the same you know use cooking oil palm oil meal

you know use cooking oil palm oil meal affluent tallows. So we're all competing

affluent tallows. So we're all competing in the same space and there are limited

in the same space and there are limited supply of feed stock infrastructure very

supply of feed stock infrastructure very important. Recently we tested the

important. Recently we tested the infrastructure in Ka to locally blend

infrastructure in Ka to locally blend south and actually pass it into uh our

south and actually pass it into uh our multi-product pipeline from Malaca right

multi-product pipeline from Malaca right into KIA because system readiness is

into KIA because system readiness is going to be very critical for us to

going to be very critical for us to ensure that we are able to sustainably

ensure that we are able to sustainably deliver and scale up bofuel policy. I

deliver and scale up bofuel policy. I think as the um representative from

think as the um representative from energy of Thailand, ministry of

energy of Thailand, ministry of Thailand, Minister of Energy from

Thailand, Minister of Energy from Thailand just now mentioned policy is

Thailand just now mentioned policy is going to be very important. I'm implore

going to be very important. I'm implore the the why Thailand is actually

the the why Thailand is actually reducing subsidies. For me, it has to be

reducing subsidies. For me, it has to be public and also private sector

public and also private sector involvement which could include if it's

involvement which could include if it's not subsidy then penalties like carbon

not subsidy then penalties like carbon taxes. Finally, ISC certification is

taxes. Finally, ISC certification is very critical to ensure that we deliver

very critical to ensure that we deliver on that bofuel agenda and also

on that bofuel agenda and also technology and consumerism around being

technology and consumerism around being able to pay and technology bringing the

able to pay and technology bringing the price of products down. Thank you very

price of products down. Thank you very much.

much. >> Oh, thank you, Vice President. I think

>> Oh, thank you, Vice President. I think very clear, you know, within the limited

very clear, you know, within the limited time. I think your company like pomminas

time. I think your company like pomminas have been contributing a lot to the

have been contributing a lot to the Malaysian bofuel road map right toward

Malaysian bofuel road map right toward B30 and B7 perhap

B30 and B7 perhap B20 for transport something like that

B20 for transport something like that it's quite clear and you talk about SA

it's quite clear and you talk about SA let's discuss about SA after this

let's discuss about SA after this because SA is another bofuel that's

because SA is another bofuel that's going to come for sustainability so let

going to come for sustainability so let me move to the third one you know um our

me move to the third one you know um our vice president Andre from Pameina.

vice president Andre from Pameina. Please introduce yourself again and you

Please introduce yourself again and you have three minute accord something like

have three minute accord something like that.

that. >> Okay. Thank you very much. A very good

>> Okay. Thank you very much. A very good morning uh to uh all of you ladies and

morning uh to uh all of you ladies and gentlemen. Uh thank you uh moderator and

gentlemen. Uh thank you uh moderator and thank you for the organizer for the kind

thank you for the organizer for the kind invitation.

invitation. My name is uh Andre Harab. I'm a VP

My name is uh Andre Harab. I'm a VP business development for new and

business development for new and renewable energy for uh Patamina holding

renewable energy for uh Patamina holding new and renewable energy. Um so um you

new and renewable energy. Um so um you know because we have a limited of time

know because we have a limited of time which is it was five minutes but now

which is it was five minutes but now it's only two and a half uh minutes.

it's only two and a half uh minutes. Okay we'll try to deal with it. Um just

Okay we'll try to deal with it. Um just a quick a quick one while I also

a quick a quick one while I also introducing my uh organization. So in

introducing my uh organization. So in Patamina we have a a dual growth

Patamina we have a a dual growth strategy which is of course uh um

strategy which is of course uh um maximizing our legis legacy business

maximizing our legis legacy business which is the fossil fuel obviously

which is the fossil fuel obviously because we are fully integrated company

because we are fully integrated company um and we are also building lowcarbon

um and we are also building lowcarbon solutions and businesses which is on the

solutions and businesses which is on the right hand side right which is where my

right hand side right which is where my organization is. So within our

organization is. So within our portfolio, quite a bit of a diverse uh

portfolio, quite a bit of a diverse uh and uh broad portfolio. We have a

and uh broad portfolio. We have a geothermal um uh portfolios. We have uh

geothermal um uh portfolios. We have uh solar um wind. We have a gas to power.

solar um wind. We have a gas to power. We are developing green hydrogen. Uh we

We are developing green hydrogen. Uh we are also doing carbon um uh trading. Um

are also doing carbon um uh trading. Um we are uh also working on CCS with our

we are uh also working on CCS with our sisters companies uh of the uh upstream

sisters companies uh of the uh upstream uh subolding but uh today of course we

uh subolding but uh today of course we are I'm going to share with you about

are I'm going to share with you about the bofuel more specifically also on

the bofuel more specifically also on bioethanyl.

bioethanyl. So this is uh our organization where I

So this is uh our organization where I am uh is in the one in the middle which

am uh is in the one in the middle which is the green one uh that uh is in charge

is the green one uh that uh is in charge for B power and new and renewable energy

for B power and new and renewable energy and in this uh specific context we are

and in this uh specific context we are uh developing the bio eternal uh

uh developing the bio eternal uh portfolio.

portfolio. Um, Protamina as stateowned companies of

Um, Protamina as stateowned companies of course have been uh in the field of um

course have been uh in the field of um um bofuels right we started the journey

um bofuels right we started the journey of course in the biodiesel

of course in the biodiesel uh we have a products already now as

uh we have a products already now as mentioned by previous speakers we are uh

mentioned by previous speakers we are uh in advanced stage we are now in B35

in advanced stage we are now in B35 uh going towards B40 and very soon next

uh going towards B40 and very soon next year the government has set the target

year the government has set the target to go on B50 50 right. Um while on the

to go on B50 50 right. Um while on the bioethanyl side we are still having uh

bioethanyl side we are still having uh room to catch right at the moment we are

room to catch right at the moment we are uh starting the development of E5 with

uh starting the development of E5 with the pertamax green 95 products and um

the pertamax green 95 products and um the other one uh which is to go on more

the other one uh which is to go on more uh green uh solution uh for diesel. We

uh green uh solution uh for diesel. We are working on the HVO uh feed stocks as

are working on the HVO uh feed stocks as well as uh UCO for the sustainable

well as uh UCO for the sustainable aviation fuel.

aviation fuel. Now um as I mentioned that um we are

Now um as I mentioned that um we are quite advanced uh on in fact maybe very

quite advanced uh on in fact maybe very advanced in amongst ASEAN countries. We

advanced in amongst ASEAN countries. We are now B35 going to B40 and B50. You

are now B35 going to B40 and B50. You know, I'm I'm I'm glad when when

know, I'm I'm I'm glad when when Indonesia is uh is ahead uh amongst uh

Indonesia is uh is ahead uh amongst uh the peers. We just lost uh our football

the peers. We just lost uh our football uh team from the World Cup, but here we

uh team from the World Cup, but here we are winning. So, uh it's a good news,

are winning. So, uh it's a good news, right? Um just to say that uh of course

right? Um just to say that uh of course there are there are challenges right uh

there are there are challenges right uh from technical issues uh from

from technical issues uh from availability of the feed stock as well

availability of the feed stock as well as the availability of the fund to

as the availability of the fund to compensate the use of the uh farm that

compensate the use of the uh farm that is bought uh by Patamina to blend right

is bought uh by Patamina to blend right but however um we are working of course

but however um we are working of course to expand our uh uh plantations uh with

to expand our uh uh plantations uh with the expansion of uh of the upstream side

the expansion of uh of the upstream side as well.

as well. Um now on biotanel as I mentioned we

Um now on biotanel as I mentioned we have uh still um uh room to catch quite

have uh still um uh room to catch quite a bit. We have laid out our road map uh

a bit. We have laid out our road map uh in four phases. The first one is

in four phases. The first one is obviously uh to utilize the available

obviously uh to utilize the available uh but yet not sustainable

uh but yet not sustainable um in terms of business continuity of

um in terms of business continuity of the feed stock which is molass right. So

the feed stock which is molass right. So uh Indonesia is still now a net importer

uh Indonesia is still now a net importer uh of the uh um sugar for consumptions.

uh of the uh um sugar for consumptions. Therefore we cannot use our sugar cane

Therefore we cannot use our sugar cane uh to make biotanol but we use the

uh to make biotanol but we use the molass. However, the molass price have

molass. However, the molass price have been fluctuating and in the recent uh

been fluctuating and in the recent uh year or so, the price has been uh very

year or so, the price has been uh very high because our uh neighboring

high because our uh neighboring countries uh Philippine and some of it

countries uh Philippine and some of it to Thailand is importing for the

to Thailand is importing for the bioethanyl production. However, uh

bioethanyl production. However, uh today's uh environment has changed,

today's uh environment has changed, right? Uh uh that bring down the molassa

right? Uh uh that bring down the molassa price. So we can uh then hope that uh

price. So we can uh then hope that uh our bioethanyl program can move ahead

our bioethanyl program can move ahead while we're also developing the other

while we're also developing the other feed stock which is the palm uh sugar

feed stock which is the palm uh sugar palm sugar uh sorghum and also multif

palm sugar uh sorghum and also multif stock. One minute one minute let me just

stock. One minute one minute let me just uh uh um uh finish uh my sharing. So the

uh uh um uh finish uh my sharing. So the previous uh speaker mentioned that was

previous uh speaker mentioned that was just the introduction but not yet the

just the introduction but not yet the challenge. So this these are the

challenge. So this these are the challenge right the policy and regul

challenge right the policy and regul regulatory uh alignment which is the um

regulatory uh alignment which is the um which is the regulation to make sure

which is the regulation to make sure that the feed stock is available and

that the feed stock is available and sustainable will be a key to um roll out

sustainable will be a key to um roll out the long-term plan or long-term strategy

the long-term plan or long-term strategy for bofuel and be it biodeiesel or

for bofuel and be it biodeiesel or bioethanol right the second is of course

bioethanol right the second is of course related to that is the availability of

related to that is the availability of the fits stock. Now in Indonesia, we are

the fits stock. Now in Indonesia, we are still putting excise uh or chukai or

still putting excise uh or chukai or excise fee to the bioetanel

excise fee to the bioetanel um fuel grade. we are asking uh

um fuel grade. we are asking uh government to lift or to wave for it

government to lift or to wave for it because it contribute almost 10% of the

because it contribute almost 10% of the final uh price of the retail of the

final uh price of the retail of the gasoline right um now and then of course

gasoline right um now and then of course the build of the infrastructures and the

the build of the infrastructures and the uh improvement of the technical uh

uh improvement of the technical uh challenges would be required uh for the

challenges would be required uh for the successful program of bofuel going

successful program of bofuel going forward. Now lastly of course Patamina

forward. Now lastly of course Patamina is uh very open and looking forward for

is uh very open and looking forward for collaboration. I think the key uh

collaboration. I think the key uh takeaway if there is anything is a

takeaway if there is anything is a collaboration between uh stakeholders

collaboration between uh stakeholders and between countries to build together

and between countries to build together the ecosystem of the bofuels and we are

the ecosystem of the bofuels and we are welcoming potential partners to

welcoming potential partners to participate as a equity partners as a

participate as a equity partners as a feed stocks alliance co-developing

feed stocks alliance co-developing projects of course we are also looking

projects of course we are also looking always for um financial funding uh

always for um financial funding uh technology partnerships uh as as well as

technology partnerships uh as as well as work together on policy uh between

work together on policy uh between government. So thank you.

government. So thank you. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you very much the VP

>> Okay. Okay. Thank you very much the VP Andre. I think you have shown us very

Andre. I think you have shown us very clear on the status of the bofuel

clear on the status of the bofuel production to show direction and

production to show direction and challenge. This is very important then

challenge. This is very important then discuss more during the Q&A but I'd like

discuss more during the Q&A but I'd like to touch upon the direction that toward

to touch upon the direction that toward B50 right now B35

B50 right now B35 uh in place right currently. So I think

uh in place right currently. So I think I'd like to uh you know commend that

I'd like to uh you know commend that planning to transition from volume based

planning to transition from volume based mandates to more sustainability focused

mandates to more sustainability focused and export ready by field is your

and export ready by field is your pathway uh in the future. So I think you

pathway uh in the future. So I think you can talk more on that uh in the Q&A. So

can talk more on that uh in the Q&A. So last but not least I'd like to invite

last but not least I'd like to invite our executive vice president Mr. PL of

our executive vice president Mr. PL of Toyota to introduce yourself and yeah

Toyota to introduce yourself and yeah again to be finement. Thank you.

again to be finement. Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you very much. Uh, first of

>> Yeah, thank you very much. Uh, first of all, it's a pleasure to be here. Uh, my

all, it's a pleasure to be here. Uh, my name is Pras and I'm with Toyota. Uh,

name is Pras and I'm with Toyota. Uh, I'm not going to be talking too much

I'm not going to be talking too much about my company. I hope you are aware

about my company. I hope you are aware of who we are and what we do. Uh, today

of who we are and what we do. Uh, today I wanted to talk very specifically about

I wanted to talk very specifically about the topic that we have here. Uh, since

the topic that we have here. Uh, since this is also about energy, energy

this is also about energy, energy transition and emissions, I would like

transition and emissions, I would like to keep the energy level as high as

to keep the energy level as high as possible during my presentation. So uh

possible during my presentation. So uh first of all uh you know when it comes

first of all uh you know when it comes to Toyota, Toyota actually set up its

to Toyota, Toyota actually set up its ambition related to carbon neutrality uh

ambition related to carbon neutrality uh 10 years ago in 2015 uh when we had uh

10 years ago in 2015 uh when we had uh you know the Paris Accord where we

you know the Paris Accord where we actually spoke about trying to go to

actually spoke about trying to go to zero emissions uh fundamentally from new

zero emissions uh fundamentally from new car sales by 2050. And then in 2021 we

car sales by 2050. And then in 2021 we kind of recommitted to this including

kind of recommitted to this including pulling forward some of our targets like

pulling forward some of our targets like plant CO2. But our approach was always a

plant CO2. But our approach was always a bit different from other companies. Our

bit different from other companies. Our approach was not that we will go into a

approach was not that we will go into a single pathway which is only

single pathway which is only electrification because we recognized

electrification because we recognized that actually the focus should be on

that actually the focus should be on carbon and not really focused on a

carbon and not really focused on a specific technology because there are

specific technology because there are many issues when it comes to emissions

many issues when it comes to emissions when it comes to economics when it comes

when it comes to economics when it comes to consumers that require to be properly

to consumers that require to be properly considered. And that's the reason why we

considered. And that's the reason why we kind of approached it through what we

kind of approached it through what we call the multiple pathway approach. Uh

call the multiple pathway approach. Uh this is very much aligned also with the

this is very much aligned also with the Japanese government and Kesho. So we

Japanese government and Kesho. So we appreciate the support and advice that

appreciate the support and advice that we get always from the Japanese

we get always from the Japanese government on this area. When it comes

government on this area. When it comes to the multiple pathway, our approach is

to the multiple pathway, our approach is that in certain segments of course zero

that in certain segments of course zero emission vehicles like battery electric

emission vehicles like battery electric vehicles and fuel cell electric vehicles

vehicles and fuel cell electric vehicles and I'm only talking about tailpipe

and I'm only talking about tailpipe emissions are suitable. We believe that

emissions are suitable. We believe that it comes to electrification the most

it comes to electrification the most optimal electrification. solution for

optimal electrification. solution for mass electrification especially in the

mass electrification especially in the next 10 years is probably hybrid

next 10 years is probably hybrid electric vehicles. And then we also

electric vehicles. And then we also believe that we have to look at internal

believe that we have to look at internal combustion engines and how can we

combustion engines and how can we further reduce the emissions even on

further reduce the emissions even on internal combustion engines because it

internal combustion engines because it has to become a suitable solution that

has to become a suitable solution that works in every country. We have to

works in every country. We have to understand that we do not operate only

understand that we do not operate only in markets like Norway. We have to

in markets like Norway. We have to operate everywhere. And when we look at

operate everywhere. And when we look at consumers and we look at mobility and

consumers and we look at mobility and very importantly when we look at the

very importantly when we look at the energy source in each country we have to

energy source in each country we have to align with the energy sources as well.

align with the energy sources as well. Now very specifically talking about

Now very specifically talking about bofuel we strongly believe that bofuel

bofuel we strongly believe that bofuel has a key role through what we call the

has a key role through what we call the three E uh emissions economics and

three E uh emissions economics and energy security and I'll talk a bit

energy security and I'll talk a bit about this but I also want to uh kind of

about this but I also want to uh kind of very clearly mention that we think that

very clearly mention that we think that lowcarbon bofuels are a very strong

lowcarbon bofuels are a very strong transition technology before we can get

transition technology before we can get to second generation bofuels or carbon

to second generation bofuels or carbon neutral fuels that we are still working

neutral fuels that we are still working on. So this is uh the area now very

on. So this is uh the area now very briefly talking about the three E that

briefly talking about the three E that we have. First of all when it comes to

we have. First of all when it comes to emissions so of course we have

emissions so of course we have biodeiesel as well as bioethanol. So

biodeiesel as well as bioethanol. So very specifically looking at bioethanol,

very specifically looking at bioethanol, we feel that E20 or E85 blends uh

we feel that E20 or E85 blends uh significantly reduce the tailpipe

significantly reduce the tailpipe emissions that you actually have. And of

emissions that you actually have. And of course if it is based on renewable

course if it is based on renewable energy or or kind of you know bio uh

energy or or kind of you know bio uh fuel itself, biogenic production, we can

fuel itself, biogenic production, we can reduce the amount of emissions

reduce the amount of emissions significantly. But we do also know that

significantly. But we do also know that bioeththanol has some impact for example

bioeththanol has some impact for example on the distance and efficiency of the

on the distance and efficiency of the vehicle as well. And that's the reason

vehicle as well. And that's the reason why Toyota as with many other car

why Toyota as with many other car companies have flexifuel vehicles that

companies have flexifuel vehicles that can allow the vehicle to be utilized

can allow the vehicle to be utilized even uh for example with uh bofuels or

even uh for example with uh bofuels or even without the blend. And then we also

even without the blend. And then we also have hybrid electric vehicles that can

have hybrid electric vehicles that can actually bring back the power back to

actually bring back the power back to the original power source. So about 30%

the original power source. So about 30% loss in uh kind of the efficiency can be

loss in uh kind of the efficiency can be gained back through the hybrid electric

gained back through the hybrid electric vehicles. And this is something that is

vehicles. And this is something that is now starting to gain a lot of steam in

now starting to gain a lot of steam in markets such as Brazil and now we're

markets such as Brazil and now we're starting to see that even in India going

starting to see that even in India going forward. The second big reason that we

forward. The second big reason that we need to talk about uh you know bofuels

need to talk about uh you know bofuels and bioethanol is also the economics. We

and bioethanol is also the economics. We see that biouels has a significant

see that biouels has a significant economic benefit when it comes to

economic benefit when it comes to boosting the agricultural sector. But we

boosting the agricultural sector. But we also need to consider it not just from

also need to consider it not just from one segment but we need to look at it

one segment but we need to look at it from the oil import reduction also the

from the oil import reduction also the growth in refinery or the growth in

growth in refinery or the growth in other sectors that go along with it. So

other sectors that go along with it. So if we look at Brazil as an example we

if we look at Brazil as an example we know that about 1.4 4 million people are

know that about 1.4 4 million people are employed uh based on bofuel and we also

employed uh based on bofuel and we also know that in the area surrounding their

know that in the area surrounding their plantations about a thousand dollars per

plantations about a thousand dollars per head GDP has also improved and we are

head GDP has also improved and we are starting to see signs like that even in

starting to see signs like that even in India and the third thing and probably

India and the third thing and probably the most critical issue that we need to

the most critical issue that we need to talk about today is also on energy

talk about today is also on energy security I think geopolitics has changed

security I think geopolitics has changed a lot from 9 months ago to today and in

a lot from 9 months ago to today and in the current world what is absolutely

the current world what is absolutely crucial is we have to understand uh how

crucial is we have to understand uh how are we able to actually manage energy

are we able to actually manage energy security in the most optimal way looking

security in the most optimal way looking at sustainable domestic alternatives in

at sustainable domestic alternatives in each market and avoiding geopolitical

each market and avoiding geopolitical instability or over reliance on one

instability or over reliance on one country or one source of energy. So it's

country or one source of energy. So it's extremely important that we look at kind

extremely important that we look at kind of domestic sources and we know

of domestic sources and we know especially if we look at ASEAN we have a

especially if we look at ASEAN we have a significant amount for example on palm

significant amount for example on palm fruit or sugarcane or rice or these kind

fruit or sugarcane or rice or these kind of activities that can help us grow the

of activities that can help us grow the bofuel as well and specifically when we

bofuel as well and specifically when we talk about the area asse

talk about the area asse 30 in Brazil it's a perfect opportunity

30 in Brazil it's a perfect opportunity for a lot of the global south to start

for a lot of the global south to start kind of enabling their own energy

kind of enabling their own energy transition and talking about bofuels uh

transition and talking about bofuels uh in the current geopolitical environment.

in the current geopolitical environment. The final slide I just wanted to mention

The final slide I just wanted to mention before handing over and getting into the

before handing over and getting into the conversation is that it's not that

conversation is that it's not that bofuel is without challenges and we do

bofuel is without challenges and we do see challenges both on the supply side

see challenges both on the supply side and demand side whether it's on raw

and demand side whether it's on raw material making sure feed stock uh is

material making sure feed stock uh is not kind of linked with food security or

not kind of linked with food security or deforestation looking at production and

deforestation looking at production and logistics cost. So how do we improve the

logistics cost. So how do we improve the productivity of the crop or improving uh

productivity of the crop or improving uh more facilities for logistics or

more facilities for logistics or refining uh distribution as well to make

refining uh distribution as well to make sure that there is appropriate

sure that there is appropriate distribution networks and then of course

distribution networks and then of course to support for example flexifuel

to support for example flexifuel vehicles that can build be the offtaker.

vehicles that can build be the offtaker. So this requires governments uh

So this requires governments uh corporate sector and academia to work

corporate sector and academia to work together. So I think I look forward to

together. So I think I look forward to the discussion that we will have right

the discussion that we will have right now. Thank you.

now. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. the VP uh price. I

>> Thank you very much. the VP uh price. I think Toyota you know I mean you are

think Toyota you know I mean you are well known for the multi-art pathway

well known for the multi-art pathway right the multi-art way for example uh

right the multi-art way for example uh promoting hybrid promoting fuel cell

promoting hybrid promoting fuel cell even IC running bofuel or I mean

even IC running bofuel or I mean something like that thank you for your

something like that thank you for your vision of Toyota sharing with us we can

vision of Toyota sharing with us we can have a Q&A for you in a minute so

have a Q&A for you in a minute so without further de I think we have

without further de I think we have around less than 20 minutes I think we

around less than 20 minutes I think we should have a very good Q&A now so let

should have a very good Q&A now so let me move very quickly to to Thailand

me move very quickly to to Thailand Okay. Well, I think I understand that uh

Okay. Well, I think I understand that uh Thailand has been I mean focusing from

Thailand has been I mean focusing from bofuel such as you mentioned E20

bofuel such as you mentioned E20 even uh E85 something like that know B20

even uh E85 something like that know B20 B7 for such a long time. So what is the

B7 for such a long time. So what is the current status again on bofuel

current status again on bofuel production? What are the future

production? What are the future direction and what challenge are being

direction and what challenge are being faced currently make it in few minutes

faced currently make it in few minutes few minute for us again.

few minute for us again. >> Okay. Thank you for question. uh for

>> Okay. Thank you for question. uh for tailan as I mentioned about for my

tailan as I mentioned about for my presentation for uh in the past where we

presentation for uh in the past where we use oil fund to subsidy and we have a

use oil fund to subsidy and we have a many type of uh fuel in in fueling

many type of uh fuel in in fueling station and uh when we have a many tai

station and uh when we have a many tai many many tai this come with management

many many tai this come with management court for the oil company and we need to

court for the oil company and we need to reduce the uh fuel in in gasing uh to

reduce the uh fuel in in gasing uh to the uh we and comply with uh like uh oil

the uh we and comply with uh like uh oil fund cannot subsidy We like uh more for

fund cannot subsidy We like uh more for the mandate for one one field for

the mandate for one one field for gasoline, one field for uh uh diesel and

gasoline, one field for uh uh diesel and maybe uh E20 for for gasoline and B B7

maybe uh E20 for for gasoline and B B7 for biodeiesel for diesel. Yes.

for biodeiesel for diesel. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you very much. I think we we

>> Okay. Thank you very much. I think we we will come back for another alternative

will come back for another alternative but I like to move quickly to our vice

but I like to move quickly to our vice president Petronage. So what are the key

president Petronage. So what are the key supply chain? I would say like food

supply chain? I would say like food stock feed stock like related barrier

stock feed stock like related barrier that you are facing when when you are

that you are facing when when you are trying to scale up the bofuels

trying to scale up the bofuels particularly like for the heavy duty you

particularly like for the heavy duty you know I mean transport or even aviation

know I mean transport or even aviation that you trying to try to say on the

that you trying to try to say on the south I mean in other words I mean what

south I mean in other words I mean what are your biggest supply side challenges

are your biggest supply side challenges in scaling up bofuel especially heavy

in scaling up bofuel especially heavy duty and aviation use.

duty and aviation use. >> Okay thank you. Um in terms of supply

>> Okay thank you. Um in terms of supply side, as I alluded earlier, the key

side, as I alluded earlier, the key challenge for us is securing the feed

challenge for us is securing the feed stock.

stock. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And the technology that's been proven

>> And the technology that's been proven today and then adopted by many

today and then adopted by many bio-refineries is the Hford technology

bio-refineries is the Hford technology which uses uh fatty acids um for example

which uses uh fatty acids um for example use cooking oil, pom, palm oil,

use cooking oil, pom, palm oil, milfluent pad, tallows. One of the thing

milfluent pad, tallows. One of the thing that we are very clear in Petronas is we

that we are very clear in Petronas is we will not compete food and waste right

will not compete food and waste right and balance

and balance >> food and fuel. So we would never use

>> food and fuel. So we would never use virgin palm oil

virgin palm oil >> and is also in terms of our meeting the

>> and is also in terms of our meeting the ISC requirements for export into

ISC requirements for export into European markets is also not allowed to

European markets is also not allowed to use virgin only.

use virgin only. >> Yes. Yes.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Uh waste and other form of products

>> Uh waste and other form of products which are more certified. Hence the key

which are more certified. Hence the key issue for us is securing that feed stock

issue for us is securing that feed stock in most countries today it is very

in most countries today it is very fragmented

fragmented >> collections are not deliberate uh

>> collections are not deliberate uh sometimes it's on volvoluntary you have

sometimes it's on volvoluntary you have small small small collectors then you

small small small collectors then you need to get an aggregator before the

need to get an aggregator before the aggregator can get a sizable volume that

aggregator can get a sizable volume that goes into the bio-refinery this adds

goes into the bio-refinery this adds cost to all the part of that value chain

cost to all the part of that value chain >> so if we get into the situation where

>> so if we get into the situation where the cost become too prohibitive and we

the cost become too prohibitive and we know sustainable efficient fuels is tend

know sustainable efficient fuels is tend to be depending can be two to five times

to be depending can be two to five times more expensive than conventional that

more expensive than conventional that cost must come down

cost must come down >> and also the volatility of prices um in

>> and also the volatility of prices um in terms of CPO which also dictates what

terms of CPO which also dictates what used cooking oil would be priced at. So

used cooking oil would be priced at. So these are some of the key concerns that

these are some of the key concerns that we have in term of the supply side

we have in term of the supply side >> including something like sebam

>> including something like sebam >> sebam you know sebam EU right is a kind

>> sebam you know sebam EU right is a kind of a barrier

of a barrier >> oh yes yes yes

>> oh yes yes yes >> maybe part of it

>> maybe part of it >> affected right

>> affected right >> I'd like to ask you on the s but before

>> I'd like to ask you on the s but before that I like to move to terminina BP on

that I like to move to terminina BP on the question like like like like that

the question like like like like that Indonesia right now focus on bofuel

Indonesia right now focus on bofuel right that you mentioned tell us again

right that you mentioned tell us again what the status of bofuel production and

what the status of bofuel production and the issue of direction that I think you

the issue of direction that I think you want to share more detail on challenges.

want to share more detail on challenges. >> Yeah. Uh thank you very much for a

>> Yeah. Uh thank you very much for a question. Uh when I hear uh my uh fellow

question. Uh when I hear uh my uh fellow panelists share actually the challenges

panelists share actually the challenges in Indonesia are not very different and

in Indonesia are not very different and in fact very similar. Right? We are

in fact very similar. Right? We are talking about the availability and

talking about the availability and sustainability of the feed stocks. Um

sustainability of the feed stocks. Um and then um in Thailand uh has already

and then um in Thailand uh has already implemented the mandatory blending for

implemented the mandatory blending for the ethanol and biodiesel. So I think if

the ethanol and biodiesel. So I think if if we can learn from each other and

if we can learn from each other and actually implement what has been the

actually implement what has been the success I think those challenges can be

success I think those challenges can be overcome. Um in Indonesia um one of the

overcome. Um in Indonesia um one of the main challenge of the adoption of the

main challenge of the adoption of the bioethanol uh is uh currently there is

bioethanol uh is uh currently there is not yet a mandatory blend from the

not yet a mandatory blend from the government for the bioethanol blend to

government for the bioethanol blend to the gasoline. Why? Because of the

the gasoline. Why? Because of the availability of the fish stock. So

availability of the fish stock. So everything is interrelated right. Um I

everything is interrelated right. Um I think I think that is uh one um

think I think that is uh one um harmonization of the policy uh and then

harmonization of the policy uh and then the strengthening of the supply chain uh

the strengthening of the supply chain uh will be the uh enabler and um

will be the uh enabler and um >> also uh bringing the new potential of

>> also uh bringing the new potential of fit stocks. Um I have not mentioned that

fit stocks. Um I have not mentioned that Pertamina at the moment is developing a

Pertamina at the moment is developing a new actually is very well-known uh crops

new actually is very well-known uh crops which is oil um not oil it's a sugar

which is oil um not oil it's a sugar palm it's arenaing pinata which uh in

palm it's arenaing pinata which uh in Indonesia or maybe you you use it in the

Indonesia or maybe you you use it in the brown sugar or palm sugar oh yeah as a

brown sugar or palm sugar oh yeah as a commodity we can turn that also uh to to

commodity we can turn that also uh to to to make for ethanol obviously

to make for ethanol obviously >> now why it has not been developed

>> now why it has not been developed because this crop is uh grown um not

because this crop is uh grown um not being cultivated so far, right? It's

being cultivated so far, right? It's gone in the wild uh in in the in in the

gone in the wild uh in in the in in the forest etc.

forest etc. >> It's costly costly.

>> It's costly costly. >> Yeah. So, uh and also a difficulty to

>> Yeah. So, uh and also a difficulty to harvest it to get the sap, right? People

harvest it to get the sap, right? People have to climb over like 10 20 m of this

have to climb over like 10 20 m of this uh uh sugar palm tree to get, you know,

uh uh sugar palm tree to get, you know, 10 liter 20 liters of of the sap. Now um

10 liter 20 liters of of the sap. Now um Pertamanu and renewable energy is

Pertamanu and renewable energy is looking into this very deeply because um

looking into this very deeply because um we we we know that the yield to convert

we we we know that the yield to convert it uh from a liter of um sap into

it uh from a liter of um sap into bioeththanol is actually uh four to

bioeththanol is actually uh four to eight times more than the molass or

eight times more than the molass or sugar cane. Right? So if we can

sugar cane. Right? So if we can cultivate it that and then make

cultivate it that and then make efficient the um the harvesting and

efficient the um the harvesting and mechanization of of this from from the

mechanization of of this from from the uh um uh uh farmers I think the

uh um uh uh farmers I think the potential is huge and this crop is

potential is huge and this crop is actually growing in in um you don't you

actually growing in in um you don't you don't really need the like um like a

don't really need the like um like a fertilizer that you would have in oil

fertilizer that you would have in oil pump,

pump, >> right? And it's uh actually growing uh

>> right? And it's uh actually growing uh also in degraded forests. So it's also

also in degraded forests. So it's also good for uh forest reforestrations.

good for uh forest reforestrations. It's also can be used of course for food

It's also can be used of course for food um and and other uses. So we are uh

um and and other uses. So we are uh trying to bring other source of um

trying to bring other source of um non-edible uh um uh feed stocks uh to be

non-edible uh um uh feed stocks uh to be used rather than uh using of course

used rather than uh using of course what's competing with the food. We need

what's competing with the food. We need to put further effort on that because

to put further effort on that because you know not only technical point of

you know not only technical point of view but the kind of trade barriers

view but the kind of trade barriers environment thing like that you know

environment thing like that you know going to important you know that you

going to important you know that you don't do it you're going to lose the

don't do it you're going to lose the market at the end of the day anyway

market at the end of the day anyway quickly thank you so much now to Toyota

quickly thank you so much now to Toyota I like to ask this question long ago but

I like to ask this question long ago but this time I would ask tell me more on

this time I would ask tell me more on the role of your bofuel you know I mean

the role of your bofuel you know I mean like in Asan or in some countries the EV

like in Asan or in some countries the EV transition

transition you know may take long time as you know

you know may take long time as you know especially in the far away rural area or

especially in the far away rural area or even on the heavy duty segment. So how

even on the heavy duty segment. So how just how does Toyota view IC compatible

just how does Toyota view IC compatible bofuel?

bofuel? >> Yeah, thank you very much. So I think

>> Yeah, thank you very much. So I think the first thing to consider is when we

the first thing to consider is when we start talking about electrification and

start talking about electrification and ASEAN uh as I briefly mentioned even if

ASEAN uh as I briefly mentioned even if we look at emissions economics and

we look at emissions economics and consumer behavior there's probably a

consumer behavior there's probably a threshold beyond which electrification

threshold beyond which electrification cannot go. So we still see even in 2035

cannot go. So we still see even in 2035 2040 there will still be a significant

2040 there will still be a significant amount of internal combustion based

amount of internal combustion based engines and fossil fuel-based vehicles

engines and fossil fuel-based vehicles that will be required. uh in that

that will be required. uh in that context if we start looking at for

context if we start looking at for example passenger vehicles and

example passenger vehicles and commercial vehicles we may need to look

commercial vehicles we may need to look at these slightly differently for

at these slightly differently for passenger vehicles we think uh ethanol

passenger vehicles we think uh ethanol blends are very suitable also in terms

blends are very suitable also in terms of utilizing ethanol blends linking it

of utilizing ethanol blends linking it with hybrid engines flexif fuel hybrid

with hybrid engines flexif fuel hybrid engines so we think this actually can

engines so we think this actually can become uh you know truly an alternative

become uh you know truly an alternative that can become lowcarbon solutions that

that can become lowcarbon solutions that can be a very suitable solution for the

can be a very suitable solution for the public and even when we start looking at

public and even when we start looking at commercial vehicles

commercial vehicles Previously, of course, we were looking a

Previously, of course, we were looking a lot at hydrogen, but we also look at the

lot at hydrogen, but we also look at the economics because when we talk about

economics because when we talk about sustainability, fundamentally, it's two

sustainability, fundamentally, it's two things. It's economic sustainability and

things. It's economic sustainability and environmental sustainability. There's no

environmental sustainability. There's no point talking about one without the

point talking about one without the other. So,

other. So, >> what must be clearly understood is that

>> what must be clearly understood is that for hydrogen we and we're looking at

for hydrogen we and we're looking at kind of the TCO visa v diesel, it's

kind of the TCO visa v diesel, it's still going to take a bit of time. And

still going to take a bit of time. And in that context we still see that for

in that context we still see that for example biodeiesel blends as well as

example biodeiesel blends as well as even bioethanol for example for longer

even bioethanol for example for longer distance and lighter loading

distance and lighter loading >> can be suitable solutions. So we still

>> can be suitable solutions. So we still see a lot of potential.

see a lot of potential. >> Uh and the final point I just wanted to

>> Uh and the final point I just wanted to mention is

mention is >> just we have to understand that this is

>> just we have to understand that this is something that ASEAN can control uh much

something that ASEAN can control uh much more than kind of being uh determinant

more than kind of being uh determinant on any other external factor. So that's

on any other external factor. So that's the reason why I'm very bullish and very

the reason why I'm very bullish and very positive even by seeing Astachita

positive even by seeing Astachita movement in Indonesia or movement

movement in Indonesia or movement recently in Malaysia as well as Thailand

recently in Malaysia as well as Thailand and we see Brazil and India's movement.

and we see Brazil and India's movement. I think this is the time when we will

I think this is the time when we will see a lot more focus back onto bofuel uh

see a lot more focus back onto bofuel uh in in the next few years. interesting

in in the next few years. interesting you know that's why Toyota or even Honda

you know that's why Toyota or even Honda they don't try to move 100% on EV

they don't try to move 100% on EV because of this you you have kind of

because of this you you have kind of alternative and waiting for some change

alternative and waiting for some change anyway because it transitional period if

anyway because it transitional period if you go 100% EV may be another story so

you go 100% EV may be another story so that's why bofuel still play do you

that's why bofuel still play do you think so

think so >> yes absolutely and I don't think I mean

>> yes absolutely and I don't think I mean maybe this may not be the popular

maybe this may not be the popular opinion but Toyota has always said this

opinion but Toyota has always said this we do not think EV is the only solution

we do not think EV is the only solution ution. I think the focus should be on

ution. I think the focus should be on carbon and not on the technology. The

carbon and not on the technology. The technology will change between now and

technology will change between now and 2050. I don't think 20 years ago or 25

2050. I don't think 20 years ago or 25 years ago we were talking about EVs. So

years ago we were talking about EVs. So why should we be talking about the

why should we be talking about the technology for 2050 today? It's a bit

technology for 2050 today? It's a bit strange.

strange. >> Or perhap uh from bofuel jump to

>> Or perhap uh from bofuel jump to hydrogen fuel cell. You never know.

hydrogen fuel cell. You never know. Okay, let move move back to Thailand

Okay, let move move back to Thailand again. I think I have a second round for

again. I think I have a second round for this time one minute and a half. Okay,

this time one minute and a half. Okay, because warning me, you know. Okay,

because warning me, you know. Okay, Thailand, I like to ask this question

Thailand, I like to ask this question again to Thailand long ago. So from the

again to Thailand long ago. So from the from the P policy perspective, I mean

from the P policy perspective, I mean how your government I mean from Thailand

how your government I mean from Thailand plan to support emer technologies like a

plan to support emer technologies like a saf

tell us tell us about that. >> Okay. uh as as I mentioned about the uh

>> Okay. uh as as I mentioned about the uh effect of the uh EV coming and uh uh

effect of the uh EV coming and uh uh effect to the oil demand uh decrease

effect to the oil demand uh decrease significant and uh when we uh by and

significant and uh when we uh by and decrease and uh uh raw material we need

decrease and uh uh raw material we need to uh want to chip to auto outer field

to uh want to chip to auto outer field sap is one option for for us uh we can

sap is one option for for us uh we can produce uh s from uh escort to jet pway

produce uh s from uh escort to jet pway and can produce from raw material that

and can produce from raw material that we were used to uh produce by resell

we were used to uh produce by resell also. This is the one reason for for us

also. This is the one reason for for us and another one reason is about uh uh as

and another one reason is about uh uh as you know Thailand want to be the half of

you know Thailand want to be the half of transportation and we have a in uh

transportation and we have a in uh planning to increase the infrastructure

planning to increase the infrastructure like a airport uh uh and one of the key

like a airport uh uh and one of the key reason uh for the green travel is staff.

reason uh for the green travel is staff. This is a uh key me into the national

This is a uh key me into the national plan already, right? In China.

plan already, right? In China. >> Yes. Yes. In in Thailand 80% of uh uh

>> Yes. Yes. In in Thailand 80% of uh uh jet fuel in Thailand, 80% from inter

jet fuel in Thailand, 80% from inter international fry and 20% is a domestic

international fry and 20% is a domestic f.

f. >> So the same question now go to our vice

>> So the same question now go to our vice president here. I do understand that the

president here. I do understand that the the renown phamina is really active act

the renown phamina is really active act actively promoting the you know I mean

actively promoting the you know I mean the kind of s I I see the company on s

the kind of s I I see the company on s under you right? Yes.

under you right? Yes. >> Sab company. So it mean how serious are

>> Sab company. So it mean how serious are you go for I mean advancing the SA?

you go for I mean advancing the SA? >> Okay. Uh for Petronas we have a ambition

>> Okay. Uh for Petronas we have a ambition to be net zero by 2050 and the means to

to be net zero by 2050 and the means to get there.

get there. Having a bofuel refinery is one of the

Having a bofuel refinery is one of the few steps to get there besides some of

few steps to get there besides some of the thing that also putting like CCS and

the thing that also putting like CCS and all that. So we are very clear around

all that. So we are very clear around our pathway to get there. We play a role

our pathway to get there. We play a role in advocation advocating the government

in advocation advocating the government also to some extent uh to support the

also to some extent uh to support the new energy transition road map which

new energy transition road map which have that ambition.

have that ambition. >> So it's very critical for us to play

>> So it's very critical for us to play that role to also shape it. So here we

that role to also shape it. So here we are not just purely from a commercial

are not just purely from a commercial perspective but we're shaping towards

perspective but we're shaping towards that low carbon fuel economy.

that low carbon fuel economy. >> Okay. I think you know if we go south I

>> Okay. I think you know if we go south I would suggest that we should go like a

would suggest that we should go like a joint project Indonesia, Thailand and

joint project Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia because palm oil right so we

Malaysia because palm oil right so we can solve problem among other you have

can solve problem among other you have problem with EU or not I do not know but

problem with EU or not I do not know but if Thailand we don't have problem then

if Thailand we don't have problem then we can work together on something to

we can work together on something to supplement each other what do you think

supplement each other what do you think about that

about that >> by all means um but it doesn't have to

>> by all means um but it doesn't have to be a cooperation at the level of that

be a cooperation at the level of that entity that produces that bofuels

entity that produces that bofuels >> but if we can harmonize all the policies

>> but if we can harmonize all the policies across the five on at least the major

across the five on at least the major economies within ASEAN then we also can

economies within ASEAN then we also can ensure that there consistent in the

ensure that there consistent in the standards

standards >> okay

>> okay >> you know fax fuel vehicles as our friend

>> you know fax fuel vehicles as our friend from Toyota mentioned all these will be

from Toyota mentioned all these will be critical for us to advance that low

critical for us to advance that low carbon economy

carbon economy >> good news is that uh I think I talked to

>> good news is that uh I think I talked to Ireina director yesterday I think is

Ireina director yesterday I think is working on s roadmap for asen and he's

working on s roadmap for asen and he's going to come up with the next two

going to come up with the next two months so I think we can share with you

months so I think we can share with you and then from that we can work together

and then from that we can work together I think single So isolation not good to

I think single So isolation not good to move on this kind of thing. So quickly

move on this kind of thing. So quickly we still have around 10 minute I I I

we still have around 10 minute I I I call our vice president from I like to

call our vice president from I like to ask you about I mean what is needed from

ask you about I mean what is needed from like public and private sector to

like public and private sector to promote adoption of the low carbon field

promote adoption of the low carbon field such as bofuel in the your perspective

such as bofuel in the your perspective public and private

public and private promote. Yeah, I think um I I would like

promote. Yeah, I think um I I would like to echo what uh my colleague from

to echo what uh my colleague from Petronas uh mentioned, right? Um I think

Petronas uh mentioned, right? Um I think um what the uh private of course uh

um what the uh private of course uh would need to do uh in terms of to

would need to do uh in terms of to promote uh the adoption of the bofuel is

promote uh the adoption of the bofuel is um

um it would start from the harmonization of

it would start from the harmonization of the policy. If we talk about ASEAN, we

the policy. If we talk about ASEAN, we spoke we speak about SAF. I think that

spoke we speak about SAF. I think that that should be um a one um harmonized

that should be um a one um harmonized regulation of the mandatory soft usage

regulation of the mandatory soft usage because it's very difficult to implement

because it's very difficult to implement um a soft adoption if one country is man

um a soft adoption if one country is man um um mandating it the 1% 2% whatever

um um mandating it the 1% 2% whatever while the other countries doesn't right

while the other countries doesn't right especially for cross borders kind of a

especially for cross borders kind of a transportation such as uh um um

transportation such as uh um um airplanes right so I think uh that that

airplanes right so I think uh that that would be uh the the important thing um

would be uh the the important thing um from the public I think um what's very

from the public I think um what's very important as well is the um is the

important as well is the um is the communication and also the education

communication and also the education >> regulation

>> regulation >> um yes of the why why it is important

>> um yes of the why why it is important for all of us right it's not important

for all of us right it's not important only for the companies to you know

only for the companies to you know generate business generate revenue you

generate business generate revenue you know the triple uh um profitability

know the triple uh um profitability sustainability uh model but also for all

sustainability uh model but also for all of us, right? Um um maybe uh among the

of us, right? Um um maybe uh among the audience there are some Indonesians um

audience there are some Indonesians um but maybe also uh it overheard across

but maybe also uh it overheard across the border. Uh in the recent weeks there

the border. Uh in the recent weeks there has been a hype of the um the the the

has been a hype of the um the the the international

international um fuel distributors doesn't have a

um fuel distributors doesn't have a gasoline products because of the

gasoline products because of the importation regulation.

importation regulation. >> Okay. And it's it has been brought to

>> Okay. And it's it has been brought to the attention because the international

the attention because the international um distributors doesn't want to offtake

um distributors doesn't want to offtake the uh the fuel that has been provided

the uh the fuel that has been provided because it has ethanol

because it has ethanol >> right so it's strange we are all talking

>> right so it's strange we are all talking about the uh E5 E10 while uh here well

about the uh E5 E10 while uh here well back home there's an issue of um you

back home there's an issue of um you know the base fuel having ethanol so uh

know the base fuel having ethanol so uh the the the the public is is um is I

the the the the public is is um is I think it's a is a misleaded right. I

think it's a is a misleaded right. I think what's important as well is the

think what's important as well is the education and the uh and the proper and

education and the uh and the proper and the real uh good communication uh of you

the real uh good communication uh of you know the the importance of of this

know the the importance of of this >> particularly about the cost

>> particularly about the cost >> of course I mean cost is is the main I

>> of course I mean cost is is the main I think is is by default right I mean uh

think is is by default right I mean uh coming back to the mandatory thing in

coming back to the mandatory thing in Indonesia we don't yet have the

Indonesia we don't yet have the mandatory blending of ethanol of course

mandatory blending of ethanol of course the

the >> we have 2 minutes

>> we have 2 minutes >> yes anyway Okay. I I like I like to for

>> yes anyway Okay. I I like I like to for have Thank you very much. I think clear.

have Thank you very much. I think clear. But one last minute I like to go through

But one last minute I like to go through the Toyota because you know I mean uh I

the Toyota because you know I mean uh I like you to say more about the public

like you to say more about the public private partnership in terms of Toyota

private partnership in terms of Toyota perspective that how how do you think

perspective that how how do you think that this kind of partnership can

that this kind of partnership can accelerate supply demand or not? I mean

accelerate supply demand or not? I mean the gap between vehicle technology and

the gap between vehicle technology and fuel supply.

fuel supply. >> You just uh

>> You just uh >> R&D sandbox something like that. I mean

>> R&D sandbox something like that. I mean very frankly I think the technology is

very frankly I think the technology is there the technology is completely

there the technology is completely available today. So if you're talking

available today. So if you're talking about flexif fuel vehicles if you're

about flexif fuel vehicles if you're talking about uh vehicles that can

talking about uh vehicles that can actually manage different blends even

actually manage different blends even for biodiesel or even for uh FFV hybrids

for biodiesel or even for uh FFV hybrids we have all of the technology the

we have all of the technology the question that is really required is

question that is really required is awareness to the public uh policy uh

awareness to the public uh policy uh that's supporting I think Koborisan

that's supporting I think Koborisan mentioned it right at the beginning

mentioned it right at the beginning which I strongly agree with. We need to

which I strongly agree with. We need to have unification of standards,

have unification of standards, certification and regulation. If there's

certification and regulation. If there's a unified standard, certification and

a unified standard, certification and regulation, I think a lot of the current

regulation, I think a lot of the current hesitation can be uh kind of overcome.

hesitation can be uh kind of overcome. And just one final point based on some

And just one final point based on some of the discussion even uh as our

of the discussion even uh as our gentleman and we are by the way talking

gentleman and we are by the way talking about partnership. We are working very

about partnership. We are working very closely with Pertamina uh as well on

closely with Pertamina uh as well on different kind of core projects as well

different kind of core projects as well as in Thailand with CP group, SCG and

as in Thailand with CP group, SCG and PTT as well. But what we do see is that

PTT as well. But what we do see is that uh there is a misunderstanding or

uh there is a misunderstanding or sometimes hype that is mentioned related

sometimes hype that is mentioned related to food security issues. For example, in

to food security issues. For example, in Brazil most of the I think almost all of

Brazil most of the I think almost all of the bioethanol that is produced that can

the bioethanol that is produced that can offtake 50% of the oil importation

offtake 50% of the oil importation >> is actually coming only from 2% of land

>> is actually coming only from 2% of land and this is mainly degraded land. So but

and this is mainly degraded land. So but there is a lot of accusations about you

there is a lot of accusations about you know food security or deforestation. So

know food security or deforestation. So I think we need a standard of validation

I think we need a standard of validation of the land and validation of the

of the land and validation of the production. So I think it's questions of

production. So I think it's questions of these standards and maybe we definitely

these standards and maybe we definitely need governments.

need governments. >> We need uh you know companies such as

>> We need uh you know companies such as Petronas uh and of course people like us

Petronas uh and of course people like us to work together.

to work together. >> I think we have to well balance the

>> I think we have to well balance the nexus you know nexus. I have one last

nexus you know nexus. I have one last minute clearly I like to spend a few

minute clearly I like to spend a few second with all of you and I don't I

second with all of you and I don't I don't want to close by myself. I want

don't want to close by myself. I want each of you to say a word. What is the

each of you to say a word. What is the single most important enabler to advance

single most important enabler to advance sustainable fuels in the region of

sustainable fuels in the region of Assean in the next five years? Don't too

Assean in the next five years? Don't too long start from you.

long start from you. >> Partnership.

>> Partnership. >> Partnership.

>> Partnership. >> Yep. Okay.

>> Yep. Okay. >> It's critical for us to ensure we can

>> It's critical for us to ensure we can move this.

move this. >> Take away partnership.

>> Take away partnership. >> Okay. As the second two words then it's

>> Okay. As the second two words then it's a it's a collaboration and

a it's a collaboration and harmonization.

harmonization. >> Okay. Clear. Thailand.

>> Okay. Clear. Thailand. >> Uh for Thailand is unai. uh I think if

>> Uh for Thailand is unai. uh I think if uh we need to work together

uh we need to work together >> okay together partnership again and last

>> okay together partnership again and last >> policy

>> policy >> policy

>> policy >> if we work

>> if we work >> okay so with that is close my session

>> okay so with that is close my session thank you very much

thank you very much >> thank you so much Dr. Thank you and all

>> thank you so much Dr. Thank you and all our panelists if we could kindly invite

our panelists if we could kindly invite our moderator and panelists to just step

our moderator and panelists to just step forward to the center of the stage for a

forward to the center of the stage for a quick photo to commemorate this moment.

quick photo to commemorate this moment. Let's give them another round of

Let's give them another round of applause. That was very insightful and

applause. That was very insightful and very fascinating look into sustainable

very fascinating look into sustainable bofuels and also flexifuel vehicles in

bofuels and also flexifuel vehicles in this region.

Of course, we have to have the mandatory thumbs up photo. Thank you so much Dr.

thumbs up photo. Thank you so much Dr. Virat, Mr. Ahmad Adi, Mr. Andre, Mr.

Virat, Mr. Ahmad Adi, Mr. Andre, Mr. Pongac, and of course, Mr. PRA. Again,

Pongac, and of course, Mr. PRA. Again, ladies and gentlemen, we see how

ladies and gentlemen, we see how partnership, harmonization,

partnership, harmonization, collaboration, and policy are going to

collaboration, and policy are going to be vital to overcoming common challenges

be vital to overcoming common challenges and ensuring the development of flexi

and ensuring the development of flexi fuel vehicles and the expansion of

fuel vehicles and the expansion of bofuels as a transition fuel across the

bofuels as a transition fuel across the region on route to a true zero emission

region on route to a true zero emission energy secure alternative for the

energy secure alternative for the future.

future. All right, ladies and gentlemen, for the

All right, ladies and gentlemen, for the next session, we're going to spend

next session, we're going to spend around 15 minutes hearing from

around 15 minutes hearing from representatives of key international

representatives of key international energy organizations as they present

energy organizations as they present their reports on transition finance. Our

their reports on transition finance. Our first report prepared by area ADB and

first report prepared by area ADB and METI will be presented by Mr. Kosen Pong

METI will be presented by Mr. Kosen Pong Sapal, senior financial sector

Sapal, senior financial sector specialist, economic research and

specialist, economic research and development impact department of the

development impact department of the Asian Development Bank. Over to you, Mr.

Asian Development Bank. Over to you, Mr. Pong Pongal.

And of course we heard earlier in all of our panel discussions financing is going

our panel discussions financing is going to be a very big part of energy security

to be a very big part of energy security in the future. Over to you sir.

in the future. Over to you sir. >> Right. Thank thank you very much and um

>> Right. Thank thank you very much and um this has been a long long morning and

this has been a long long morning and apologies you know to to be um you know

apologies you know to to be um you know speaking you know without any coffee

speaking you know without any coffee break um you know for for all of you. So

break um you know for for all of you. So I'll keep my session short so that we

I'll keep my session short so that we can you know back on track in terms of

can you know back on track in terms of our time. So this morning um you know

our time. So this morning um you know it's our um you know privilege um know

it's our um you know privilege um know to be presenting this um know report on

to be presenting this um know report on decarbonizing Southeast Asia's how to

decarbonizing Southeast Asia's how to abate and high emitting sectors Asian

abate and high emitting sectors Asian finance technologies and policy

finance technologies and policy approaches um on behalf of the Asian

approaches um on behalf of the Asian Development Bank ADB and also our

Development Bank ADB and also our partners um the ministry of um economies

partners um the ministry of um economies and trade and industry of Japan as well

and trade and industry of Japan as well as the economic research institute for

as the economic research institute for Southeast uh for ASEN and East Asia or

Southeast uh for ASEN and East Asia or or area. So in my session um I will very

or area. So in my session um I will very um you know give you very briefly an

um you know give you very briefly an overview of the report you know which

overview of the report you know which will set the stage um you know for the

will set the stage um you know for the panel discussion to discuss outcome of

panel discussion to discuss outcome of this report um in more details.

So as as many of you may know um you know our region has experienced you know

know our region has experienced you know rapid economic growth um in in recent

rapid economic growth um in in recent years um that's also led to a sharp

years um that's also led to a sharp increase in energy um demand which in

increase in energy um demand which in turn led to the increase of investment

turn led to the increase of investment in coal and other fossil fuels you know

in coal and other fossil fuels you know power plants. This actually lead to the

power plants. This actually lead to the increasing um you know greenhouse gas um

increasing um you know greenhouse gas um you know emissions in the region. But

you know emissions in the region. But this also means that um you know our

this also means that um you know our core five power plants are still

core five power plants are still relatively young right and they are

relatively young right and they are locked in um into the long-term you know

locked in um into the long-term you know power purchase agreements making early

power purchase agreements making early retirement financially and transition

retirement financially and transition away from core very difficult. So when

away from core very difficult. So when we talk about transition or

we talk about transition or decarbonization um it's important to

decarbonization um it's important to highlight that um it is a process over

highlight that um it is a process over time and this cannot be done overnight.

time and this cannot be done overnight. Um, it is not only about converting to

Um, it is not only about converting to renewable energy or clean energy, but

renewable energy or clean energy, but it's also about ensuring energy security

it's also about ensuring energy security and sustainability for businesses, local

and sustainability for businesses, local communities, and the reskilling of

communities, and the reskilling of workers as well as the well-being of

workers as well as the well-being of their families. It's about developing a

their families. It's about developing a transition plans. A plan that is

transition plans. A plan that is ambitious um credible and verifiable

ambitious um credible and verifiable taking into account technology

taking into account technology advancements, potential environmental

advancements, potential environmental and social impacts and the alignment

and social impacts and the alignment with international and regional um

with international and regional um targets. Um that is what actually

targets. Um that is what actually investors are looking for. Right? So

investors are looking for. Right? So this is not an easy task and and any

this is not an easy task and and any delay uh will actually worsen the um the

delay uh will actually worsen the um the the situation.

the situation. So given the um the the urgency and also

So given the um the the urgency and also the complexity um you know of this issue

the complexity um you know of this issue that's why um you know matey area and

that's why um you know matey area and ADB um you know we came together to to

ADB um you know we came together to to de develop this report to identify key

de develop this report to identify key barriers and propose practical enablers

barriers and propose practical enablers for decarbonization in Southeast Asia

for decarbonization in Southeast Asia especially in the hard to abate and high

especially in the hard to abate and high emitting um sectors like power and

emitting um sectors like power and industry you know which together account

industry you know which together account for more than 20% um more than 70% um of

for more than 20% um more than 70% um of um the emissions um you know in our

um the emissions um you know in our region. So this report calls for a

region. So this report calls for a combination of technology adoption,

combination of technology adoption, policy reforms and transition finance as

policy reforms and transition finance as key enablers for unlocking investments

key enablers for unlocking investments in transition projects through three

in transition projects through three priority investment themes. um you see

priority investment themes. um you see on the left hand side I won't go into

on the left hand side I won't go into details but you know why we are um you

details but you know why we are um you know proposing these three investment

know proposing these three investment themes because asen countries have

themes because asen countries have different starting points we have

different starting points we have different national priorities and we

different national priorities and we have different key challenges right so a

have different key challenges right so a single one-sizefitit all strategy

single one-sizefitit all strategy doesn't work for our region instead we

doesn't work for our region instead we need a one goal with various pathways

need a one goal with various pathways approach focusing on three key

approach focusing on three key investment themes in order to deliver

investment themes in order to deliver energy transition

energy transition uh projects at scale across the region

uh projects at scale across the region and deployment appropriate technologies

and deployment appropriate technologies across all three areas.

Um the first one is on the um on on the transition um you know finance um which

transition um you know finance um which is relatively new concept in sustainable

is relatively new concept in sustainable finance um in the region. As many of us

finance um in the region. As many of us may be familiar with the use of proceed

may be familiar with the use of proceed bonds, you know, green bonds,

bonds, you know, green bonds, sustainability bonds, you know, which

sustainability bonds, you know, which require the proceeds um to be allocated

require the proceeds um to be allocated to projects that are already green,

to projects that are already green, right? Such as renewable energy um

right? Such as renewable energy um projects, you know, green buildings, um

projects, you know, green buildings, um lowcarbon transportations.

lowcarbon transportations. But the concept of transition finance um

But the concept of transition finance um is quite new in the region and it's only

is quite new in the region and it's only started um you know, getting traction,

started um you know, getting traction, you know, after we introduced the AS

you know, after we introduced the AS taxonomy for sustainable finance, right?

taxonomy for sustainable finance, right? So which you know follow the traffic

So which you know follow the traffic light approach and is considered a

light approach and is considered a transition taxonomy for the region that

transition taxonomy for the region that paved the way for energy transition um

paved the way for energy transition um you know in our region. So since then we

you know in our region. So since then we have seen many national um sustainable

have seen many national um sustainable finance taxonomies have followed this

finance taxonomies have followed this approach um Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam

approach um Thailand, Singapore, Vietnam for example to categorize projects and

for example to categorize projects and activities that is green in and in amber

activities that is green in and in amber tiers. So this provide clarity for those

tiers. So this provide clarity for those activities in the amber tier with the

activities in the amber tier with the pathway um that they need to do in order

pathway um that they need to do in order to achieve the green tier uh which is uh

to achieve the green tier uh which is uh align with the global um you know

align with the global um you know agreements. But one key feature of

agreements. But one key feature of transition finance is that is highly

transition finance is that is highly context um you know dependent. So

context um you know dependent. So entities must develop transction plans

entities must develop transction plans that are science-based that are credible

that are science-based that are credible that are verifiable in order to attract

that are verifiable in order to attract um you know financing and this is

um you know financing and this is particularly um you know beneficial um

particularly um you know beneficial um you know for those in hard to abate

you know for those in hard to abate sectors especially um the utility

sectors especially um the utility operators and industrial sector which we

operators and industrial sector which we have seen that majority of them on the

have seen that majority of them on the on the top row is actually tapping into

on the top row is actually tapping into the transition finance um you know

the transition finance um you know market. So as we discussed um you know

market. So as we discussed um you know earlier um you know session finance is

earlier um you know session finance is context dependent. So the report also

context dependent. So the report also proposed various type of financing

proposed various type of financing instruments um to support the

instruments um to support the carbonization um of the issuers. So we

carbonization um of the issuers. So we have provided several examples in the

have provided several examples in the report um you know one is the use of

report um you know one is the use of sustainability link bonds um you know

sustainability link bonds um you know issuance by the government of Thailand

issuance by the government of Thailand in November last year. We were supported

in November last year. We were supported by ADB um you know with the key

by ADB um you know with the key performance indicators you know linked

performance indicators you know linked to the reduction of 30% of national

to the reduction of 30% of national greenhouse gas emissions. So we also

greenhouse gas emissions. So we also highlight you know a few other case

highlight you know a few other case studies um using different examples of

studies um using different examples of transition finance um instruments um

transition finance um instruments um that we have seen um you know in the

that we have seen um you know in the market. Another key areas that I would

market. Another key areas that I would like to highlight is about the

like to highlight is about the importance of resilience and adaptation.

importance of resilience and adaptation. So as we promote investment in clean

So as we promote investment in clean energy it's also important to ensure

energy it's also important to ensure that these projects are located in areas

that these projects are located in areas that are resilient to climate related um

that are resilient to climate related um you know impacts. So this is a great

you know impacts. So this is a great opportunity for for us to to address

opportunity for for us to to address both um the the the climate as well as

both um the the the climate as well as the uh mitigation um issues.

So we talk about finance right my my time is up my apologies. Um but in order

time is up my apologies. Um but in order to accelerate AG transition in ASEAN um

to accelerate AG transition in ASEAN um the two NWS um you know stand out first

the two NWS um you know stand out first the technology adoption um as well as a

the technology adoption um as well as a policy um you know unlocks um are

policy um you know unlocks um are equally important and we also heard from

equally important and we also heard from previous session that the the policies

previous session that the the policies and partnership are extremely um

and partnership are extremely um important um on technology adoption. The

important um on technology adoption. The report also proposes you know six

report also proposes you know six priority actions as you may have seen on

priority actions as you may have seen on the left hand side um along with a

the left hand side um along with a multi-layered policy approach um you

multi-layered policy approach um you know from macro level all the way down

know from macro level all the way down to the project levels um to to support

to the project levels um to to support um transitions.

um transitions. Um in the report we also highlighted you

Um in the report we also highlighted you know different case studies you know how

know different case studies you know how we put together the technology adoption

we put together the technology adoption policy as well as fashion finance. So,

policy as well as fashion finance. So, so you can refer to um different case

so you can refer to um different case studies um you know in the report um you

studies um you know in the report um you know which has been you know went live

know which has been you know went live um you know yesterday and will be

um you know yesterday and will be formally launched again this afternoon.

formally launched again this afternoon. So with that um I would like to to to

So with that um I would like to to to end my presentation is that um you know

end my presentation is that um you know commitments from government is very

commitments from government is very important regional collaboration is very

important regional collaboration is very important partnership is very important.

important partnership is very important. the speed and also the willingness um of

the speed and also the willingness um of everyone in the room is also um you know

everyone in the room is also um you know very very um important and these issues

very very um important and these issues will be discussed again you know in the

will be discussed again you know in the panel discussion. So lastly, I would

panel discussion. So lastly, I would like to to to to thanks um our

like to to to to thanks um our colleagues from from Miy and and areas

colleagues from from Miy and and areas uh for for this um you know partnership

uh for for this um you know partnership um know to work together to to finalize

um know to work together to to finalize um you know this report and on behalf of

um you know this report and on behalf of the um the the the the co-authors we

the um the the the the co-authors we would hope to see that this this report

would hope to see that this this report will actually help catalyze you know

will actually help catalyze you know into actual project developments. Um

into actual project developments. Um thank you very much.

thank you very much. >> Thank you for your presentation Mr.

>> Thank you for your presentation Mr. Cosen. Could we kindly have you remain

Cosen. Could we kindly have you remain on stage as we invite up the two

on stage as we invite up the two co-authors of this paper for a joint

co-authors of this paper for a joint photo opportunity. We'd like to welcome

photo opportunity. We'd like to welcome Mr. Hayashi Sho of Area and also Mr.

Mr. Hayashi Sho of Area and also Mr. Kimura Norhiro of the Ministry of

Kimura Norhiro of the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry Japan. And

Economy, Trade and Industry Japan. And uh for our photographers, we're going to

uh for our photographers, we're going to take two photos. For our first photo,

take two photos. For our first photo, we'll have all of the authors holding up

we'll have all of the authors holding up the book in front of them,

jointly symbolizing their work together on this very important reports.

And for our second photo, of course, we must have the mandatory thumbs up.

must have the mandatory thumbs up. That's right.

Ladies and gentlemen, let's give our co-authors another big round of

co-authors another big round of applause. Thank you so much for your

applause. Thank you so much for your work on this. Clearly, zero mission

work on this. Clearly, zero mission goals can't be attained without the fund

goals can't be attained without the fund options offered by transition financing.

options offered by transition financing. Thank you to our report authors for

Thank you to our report authors for highlighting the available options for

highlighting the available options for public and private sector players

public and private sector players driving sustainability energy

driving sustainability energy sustainable energy in the region. Now,

sustainable energy in the region. Now, as we move on to the second report, we'd

as we move on to the second report, we'd like to invite our next two speakers to

like to invite our next two speakers to stand by on stage.

stand by on stage. Our next transition finance report

Our next transition finance report prepared by the IEA will be presented by

prepared by the IEA will be presented by Mr. Sadamori Kesuk, Director Energy

Mr. Sadamori Kesuk, Director Energy Markets and Security and Mr. Mr.

Markets and Security and Mr. Mr. Yamazaki Rio, Special Adviser, Energy

Yamazaki Rio, Special Adviser, Energy Investment Unit, Office of the Chief

Investment Unit, Office of the Chief Energy Economist. Please give them a

Energy Economist. Please give them a warm welcome. Mr. Saramorei, Mr.

warm welcome. Mr. Saramorei, Mr. Yamazaki, over to you.

Yamazaki, over to you. >> Uh thank you. Uh thank you for this uh

>> Uh thank you. Uh thank you for this uh the opportunity uh for the IA to launch

the opportunity uh for the IA to launch this very important report on uh

this very important report on uh transition financing. So first uh the

transition financing. So first uh the Southeast Asia is one of the fastest

Southeast Asia is one of the fastest growing regions in the world in terms of

growing regions in the world in terms of the energy demand. In comparing the

the energy demand. In comparing the energy demand growth across the regions

energy demand growth across the regions the over the next decade, Southeast Asia

the over the next decade, Southeast Asia stands as the second fastest largest

stands as the second fastest largest after India driven by population growth

after India driven by population growth and also the robust economic expansion

and also the robust economic expansion and this clarif clearly demonstrates

and this clarif clearly demonstrates that the region will play an

that the region will play an increasingly important role in both the

increasingly important role in both the uh the global economic and energy

uh the global economic and energy landscape. However, the energy

landscape. However, the energy investment has not kept pace with the

investment has not kept pace with the rapid growth in demand. So to sustain

rapid growth in demand. So to sustain the region's future energy development,

the region's future energy development, a substantial increase in investment

a substantial increase in investment will be essential.

will be essential. Now, of course, uh the part of this

Now, of course, uh the part of this investment will be supported through the

investment will be supported through the uh green finance uh which plays a

uh green finance uh which plays a crucial role. However, the green finance

crucial role. However, the green finance alone will not be sufficient to deliver

alone will not be sufficient to deliver full energy and the economic transitions

full energy and the economic transitions required. So in the coming decade

required. So in the coming decade alongside the continued green investment

alongside the continued green investment it will be equally important to provide

it will be equally important to provide financing together with the transition

financing together with the transition strategies to hardtopate sectors sectors

strategies to hardtopate sectors sectors where the emissions reductions are

where the emissions reductions are particularly difficult and to the

particularly difficult and to the emerging uh the market and the

emerging uh the market and the developing economies including this

developing economies including this region Southeast Asia. And this approach

region Southeast Asia. And this approach allow uh allows the economic activity to

allow uh allows the economic activity to continue while making meaningful uh

continue while making meaningful uh contributions to emissions reductions

contributions to emissions reductions and the financing provided with these uh

and the financing provided with these uh guardrails is what we call the uh

guardrails is what we call the uh transition finance.

transition finance. Scaling up transition finance uh

Scaling up transition finance uh requires both public and the private

requires both public and the private players to design supportive frameworks

players to design supportive frameworks guided by two key principles. One is

guided by two key principles. One is credibility and the other is

credibility and the other is inclusiveness to ensure credibility. The

inclusiveness to ensure credibility. The clear national level guidance for the

clear national level guidance for the transition is important and the

transition is important and the follow-up process to review and update

follow-up process to review and update strategies uh is also essential to

strategies uh is also essential to achieve inclusiveness. It is important

achieve inclusiveness. It is important to recognize the value of uh transition

to recognize the value of uh transition finance and acknowledge that providing

finance and acknowledge that providing capital where emission reductions are

capital where emission reductions are most challenging is as vital as the

most challenging is as vital as the green investments that deliver

green investments that deliver short-term emission cuts. And finally to

short-term emission cuts. And finally to strengthen the value of transition

strengthen the value of transition finance within the international

finance within the international initiatives. This ASEC uh can serve as

initiatives. This ASEC uh can serve as an important platform. It can help

an important platform. It can help acknowledge the essential contributions

acknowledge the essential contributions of transition finance, overcome barriers

of transition finance, overcome barriers to financial inflows into this region

to financial inflows into this region and accelerate financing for the

and accelerate financing for the region's uh transitions. Now I would

region's uh transitions. Now I would like to hand over to Mr. Yamasaki, the

like to hand over to Mr. Yamasaki, the lead author of this report. Thank you.

>> Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Salomi. So, I will now focus on the key analysis

So, I will now focus on the key analysis and takeaway presented in our report.

and takeaway presented in our report. Because Sunj finance reflects each

Because Sunj finance reflects each region's unique energy pathway, it is

region's unique energy pathway, it is difficult to precisely estimate its

difficult to precisely estimate its total post potential at a scale.

total post potential at a scale. However, to provide some indicative

However, to provide some indicative numbers, we analyze it based on the IIA

numbers, we analyze it based on the IIA scenario and we estimate that over the

scenario and we estimate that over the next decade, four to five trillion of

next decade, four to five trillion of investment can be supported by

investment can be supported by transition finance.

transition finance. This is not exhaustive number but it

This is not exhaustive number but it covers a wide range of hard to sectors

covers a wide range of hard to sectors such as natural gas, industry, building,

such as natural gas, industry, building, transport and critical minerals.

transport and critical minerals. And importantly, half of this investment

And importantly, half of this investment should be directed to emerging market

should be directed to emerging market and developing economies. Of course,

and developing economies. Of course, whether these investment can be

whether these investment can be supported by trans finance uh it depends

supported by trans finance uh it depends on meeting key process requirements such

on meeting key process requirements such as the ex existence of credible

as the ex existence of credible transgress.

Even so four to five trillion over 10 years or roughly 400 to 500 billion

years or roughly 400 to 500 billion annually is comparable in scale to

annually is comparable in scale to today's green bond market. Looking back

today's green bond market. Looking back the green finance market expanded nearly

the green finance market expanded nearly 15 hold over the past decade growing

15 hold over the past decade growing from a modest base to become uh an

from a modest base to become uh an important driver of clean energy

important driver of clean energy investment. In the coming decade,

investment. In the coming decade, achieving a similar growth trajectory

achieving a similar growth trajectory for tangent finance will be essential to

for tangent finance will be essential to make tangible progress in supporting

make tangible progress in supporting investment in hard to avoid sector and

investment in hard to avoid sector and emerging countries.

As mentioned earlier, both credibility and inclusiveness are essential for

and inclusiveness are essential for scaling app finance. to maintain

scaling app finance. to maintain credibility. Having a clear transition

credibility. Having a clear transition strategy is of course important but

strategy is of course important but talking KPIs and ensuring continuous

talking KPIs and ensuring continuous followup and update are equally

followup and update are equally critical.

critical. In our report we provide sectoral

In our report we provide sectoral insight on island steel cement critical

insight on island steel cement critical mineral and natural gas along with

mineral and natural gas along with recommended KPIs to help track progress

recommended KPIs to help track progress in decarbonization.

in decarbonization. Also given today's economic and

Also given today's economic and geopolitical uncertainty, it is

geopolitical uncertainty, it is difficult to capture all factors at the

difficult to capture all factors at the initial planning stage. So strategy need

initial planning stage. So strategy need to be regularly updated to remain

to be regularly updated to remain realistic and relevant over time.

realistic and relevant over time. On inclusiveness side, we need to

On inclusiveness side, we need to consider how far the discussion on

consider how far the discussion on transion finance actually reaches.

transion finance actually reaches. In many emerging economies, there are

In many emerging economies, there are entities that have not yet developed

entities that have not yet developed transion strategy not only due to lack

transion strategy not only due to lack of intent but due to limited capacity.

of intent but due to limited capacity. This includes sector where emissions

This includes sector where emissions reduction are particularly challenging

reduction are particularly challenging as well as many small and midsize

as well as many small and midsize enterprises.

enterprises. So in our report we focus on those who

So in our report we focus on those who have opted out or being left out of the

have opted out or being left out of the tunch of finance discussion.

tunch of finance discussion. The key question is how to bring these

The key question is how to bring these players into the conversation enabling

players into the conversation enabling them to continue investing while

them to continue investing while advancing their own pway toward emission

advancing their own pway toward emission reduction rather than excluding them

reduction rather than excluding them from the transition process.

Okay. So I'd like to conclude our presentation with this page. Dungeon

presentation with this page. Dungeon Finance holds the potential to support 4

Finance holds the potential to support 4 to five trillion of investment over the

to five trillion of investment over the next decade. However, it has not yet

next decade. However, it has not yet reached its full potential.

reached its full potential. Unlocking this potential will require

Unlocking this potential will require both creativity and inclusiveness as we

both creativity and inclusiveness as we have discussed and this call for the

have discussed and this call for the effort of both policy maker and

effort of both policy maker and stakeholders.

stakeholders. To strengthen coability, government can

To strengthen coability, government can provide clear national level guidance

provide clear national level guidance such as sectoral transition.

such as sectoral transition. Also, robust followup mechanisms on the

Also, robust followup mechanisms on the private side are equally vital. At the

private side are equally vital. At the same time, enhancing the international

same time, enhancing the international recognition and repositioning of trans

recognition and repositioning of trans finance is essential.

finance is essential. The true value of trans finance lies in

The true value of trans finance lies in its ability to enable progress in area

its ability to enable progress in area where decarbonization is difficult where

where decarbonization is difficult where investment needs are urgent and where

investment needs are urgent and where existing mainstream approaches are not

existing mainstream approaches are not sufficient. So its core value lies in

sufficient. So its core value lies in engaging with these these realities not

engaging with these these realities not avoiding them.

avoiding them. With the right support structure in

With the right support structure in place, TWI finance can move from being

place, TWI finance can move from being seen as a second tier of growing finance

seen as a second tier of growing finance to becoming a second pillar of global

to becoming a second pillar of global financing for the TWIN. Thank you very

financing for the TWIN. Thank you very much.

much. >> Thank you so much, gentlemen. Could we

>> Thank you so much, gentlemen. Could we please invite both speakers to the

please invite both speakers to the center of the stage for a quick photo,

center of the stage for a quick photo, Mr. Samorei and of course, Mr. Yamasaki.

And of course uh ladies and gentlemen our first photo with will be with the

our first photo with will be with the report itself

and of course a second photo with our thumbs up.

Thank you so much to Mr. Sadamorei and Mr. Yamasaki, another big round of

Mr. Yamasaki, another big round of applause for our speakers for presenting

applause for our speakers for presenting that report. And with that, we thank our

that report. And with that, we thank our international energy organizations for

international energy organizations for their diligence in preparing and pres

their diligence in preparing and pres presenting their transition finance

presenting their transition finance reports. And now, ladies and gentlemen,

reports. And now, ladies and gentlemen, with the insight derived from both

with the insight derived from both reports, we now arrive at our last

reports, we now arrive at our last session. A timely discussion on

session. A timely discussion on transition finance. As the shift to net

transition finance. As the shift to net zero cannot be achieved in a single

zero cannot be achieved in a single step, steady and realistic progress

step, steady and realistic progress during the transition period is

during the transition period is essential. This underscores the need for

essential. This underscores the need for financial mechanisms that mobilize both

financial mechanisms that mobilize both public and private investment.

public and private investment. Now we will hear from financial

Now we will hear from financial institutions and international

institutions and international organizations involved in transition

organizations involved in transition finance as they share their initiatives,

finance as they share their initiatives, challenges and perspectives on

challenges and perspectives on supporting the path towards

supporting the path towards decarbonization. To chair the session,

decarbonization. To chair the session, I'm honored to welcome on stage Dr. Han

I'm honored to welcome on stage Dr. Han Bumin, senior energy economist from area

Bumin, senior energy economist from area as our moderator as well as his

as our moderator as well as his panelist. Over to you Dr. Han. Thank

panelist. Over to you Dr. Han. Thank thank you so much. Very good uh

thank you so much. Very good uh afternoon. We are standing uh uh between

afternoon. We are standing uh uh between the lines. So hope we all keep uh up the

the lines. So hope we all keep uh up the time. So uh the final session here is on

time. So uh the final session here is on transition finance which is quite

transition finance which is quite important. Uh following the two report

important. Uh following the two report just launched by the uh area ADB and MIT

just launched by the uh area ADB and MIT and followed by IA. I think set a very

and followed by IA. I think set a very nice scene for today uh transition this

nice scene for today uh transition this session uh discussion. uh as you may

session uh discussion. uh as you may know that this region particularly Asia

know that this region particularly Asia uh their energy system particularly is

uh their energy system particularly is uh um more fossil more fossil fuel based

uh um more fossil more fossil fuel based energy system. So to make sure they are

energy system. So to make sure they are moving away from that it need financing

moving away from that it need financing and to do that it transition finance is

and to do that it transition finance is very critical to allow those country to

very critical to allow those country to move away gradually from this uh carbon

move away gradually from this uh carbon intensive energy system toward more

intensive energy system toward more efficient and lowcarbon energy system.

efficient and lowcarbon energy system. In this way I think we able to assemble

In this way I think we able to assemble the right panel today. But as the

the right panel today. But as the presentation highlight we need very

presentation highlight we need very intensive uh large capital basically to

intensive uh large capital basically to how to unlock this private and uh and

how to unlock this private and uh and private and public uh finance is quite

private and public uh finance is quite important to ensure that we have enough

important to ensure that we have enough capital to finance this energy

capital to finance this energy transition. Uh without further ado uh we

transition. Uh without further ado uh we have very four distinguished uh

have very four distinguished uh panelists today. Uh I think uh you have

panelists today. Uh I think uh you have five minute each and I will start off

five minute each and I will start off with uh Mr. Kenit Kato the chief

with uh Mr. Kenit Kato the chief representative Japan Bank for

representative Japan Bank for international cooperation and the floor

international cooperation and the floor is your please.

is your please. >> Thank you Dr. Han. Um good afternoon

>> Thank you Dr. Han. Um good afternoon maybe um not afternoon uh before lunch.

maybe um not afternoon uh before lunch. Um hello everybody. Thank you for

Um hello everybody. Thank you for inviting our bank to this uh panel

inviting our bank to this uh panel session. Um

session. Um our bank maybe some of you already know

our bank maybe some of you already know our name. Uh we're uh Japan Bank for

our name. Uh we're uh Japan Bank for international corporation. We call

international corporation. We call ourselves uh policy based financial

ourselves uh policy based financial institutions. Um we used to be like a

institutions. Um we used to be like a export credit agencies but we're kind of

export credit agencies but we're kind of mixture of like DFIs and ECAs and we now

mixture of like DFIs and ECAs and we now call ourselves policy based financing.

call ourselves policy based financing. Uh which is not like we are based on

Uh which is not like we are based on policy. we work with the policy. So we

policy. we work with the policy. So we worked uh together with the Japanese

worked uh together with the Japanese government and with the clients to make

government and with the clients to make the policy better and to um make things

the policy better and to um make things go well. Um basically we have four

go well. Um basically we have four missions in our law um to support the

missions in our law um to support the Japanese economy. Um it's written here

Japanese economy. Um it's written here the one is the natural resources. Uh we

the one is the natural resources. Uh we are poor of the natural resources. So um

are poor of the natural resources. So um to promote the overseas development of

to promote the overseas development of the securement of the resources for

the securement of the resources for which is very important for Japan we

which is very important for Japan we finance the developing um projects all

finance the developing um projects all over the world and another ones to uh

over the world and another ones to uh support the overseas business

support the overseas business development of the Japanese corporates.

development of the Japanese corporates. So maintaining maintaining improving the

So maintaining maintaining improving the international corp competitiveness of

international corp competitiveness of the Japanese industries and the other

the Japanese industries and the other mission is to uh environmental pre

mission is to uh environmental pre preservation. So promoting the overseas

preservation. So promoting the overseas business and having the purpose of

business and having the purpose of preserving the global environment uh we

preserving the global environment uh we support that as our mission and um basic

support that as our mission and um basic information obviously our headquarters

information obviously our headquarters in Tokyo but we have 18 rep offices and

in Tokyo but we have 18 rep offices and I'm one of the chief rep uh I am

I'm one of the chief rep uh I am stationing in Singapore uh which covers

stationing in Singapore uh which covers all the ass regions including Australia

all the ass regions including Australia so we should say APAC

so we should say APAC um outstanding of our asset is about uh

um outstanding of our asset is about uh 106 billion US as of March 2025.

So let me briefly introduce you about our fifth medium-term business plan uh

our fifth medium-term business plan uh which still plays a very important role

which still plays a very important role in the sustainability finance. Um so we

in the sustainability finance. Um so we aim to contribute towards realizing both

aim to contribute towards realizing both carbon neutrality and economic growth.

carbon neutrality and economic growth. So we will support the conversions of

So we will support the conversions of the cleaner energies in saving power

the cleaner energies in saving power generations facilities in conjunction

generations facilities in conjunction with uh introducing renewable energies

with uh introducing renewable energies and strengthening grids. But while we

and strengthening grids. But while we confirm um and we have a close tag with

confirm um and we have a close tag with countries each partners countries road

countries each partners countries road map for carbon neutrality this is

map for carbon neutrality this is meaning that we're not only supporting

meaning that we're not only supporting the renewable energies but we are

the renewable energies but we are supporting the transition energies and

supporting the transition energies and this uh I will go into details in later

this uh I will go into details in later but it obviously include gas.

So let me introduce uh our activities in renewable project in asen recently. This

renewable project in asen recently. This is the one project in the geothermal

is the one project in the geothermal power expansion project and valable u

power expansion project and valable u project but this is not obviously uh the

project but this is not obviously uh the transition but it's a green energy but I

transition but it's a green energy but I want to focus on the left hand side that

want to focus on the left hand side that how we approach this kind of projects so

how we approach this kind of projects so um basically we start with identifying

um basically we start with identifying the social issues in the host country so

the social issues in the host country so the countries here in Asia we have have

the countries here in Asia we have have like engaging dialogue with the host

like engaging dialogue with the host countries and We define what are the u

countries and We define what are the u social issues in the each countries and

social issues in the each countries and then we move forward to proposing

then we move forward to proposing solutions and what we can do as a jbeic

solutions and what we can do as a jbeic in this um part is that we have a strong

in this um part is that we have a strong network with Japanese clients uh we've

network with Japanese clients uh we've se electric in the other panels but not

se electric in the other panels but not only kite electric but all the other

only kite electric but all the other companies are our clients and we know

companies are our clients and we know their technologies uh we've been

their technologies uh we've been financing these clients for is by

financing these clients for is by providing project financing, corporate

providing project financing, corporate financing, export financing, all this.

financing, export financing, all this. So we will form a Japanese international

So we will form a Japanese international consortium in partnership with the

consortium in partnership with the foreign companies. Then we'll provide

foreign companies. Then we'll provide these kind of solutions, concrete

these kind of solutions, concrete solutions toward their projects and

solutions toward their projects and finally uh of course we will go into the

finally uh of course we will go into the financing sections uh to realize these

financing sections uh to realize these projects. So this is kind of approach

projects. So this is kind of approach that we take in the um global projects

that we take in the um global projects and um first part of the engagement with

and um first part of the engagement with the host countries. Um we recently start

the host countries. Um we recently start with meeting u very high officials in

with meeting u very high officials in the government. So we see prime minister

the government. So we see prime minister Anal in this picture. Uh this is with

Anal in this picture. Uh this is with our chairman Mada. We uh chairman Maida

our chairman Mada. We uh chairman Maida and Prime Minister Anal um had a

and Prime Minister Anal um had a dialogue and we discuss about real like

dialogue and we discuss about real like how we utilize the APG which was the one

how we utilize the APG which was the one topic in the panel and then we go down

topic in the panel and then we go down to um more realistic way of providing

to um more realistic way of providing solutions. So we have like this kind of

solutions. So we have like this kind of workshop. This is example of a workshop

workshop. This is example of a workshop together with Tanaga who was also in the

together with Tanaga who was also in the panel and uh we provided kind of this

panel and uh we provided kind of this workshop together with uh like Simito

workshop together with uh like Simito electrics ori energy Toshiba Kai

electrics ori energy Toshiba Kai together to provide this kind of

together to provide this kind of workshop to actually um presentate the

workshop to actually um presentate the solutions and uh recent move within this

solutions and uh recent move within this region that we had with a Sarabaku

region that we had with a Sarabaku energy to advance regional

energy to advance regional decarbonization.

decarbonization. So this kind of the dialogues we start

So this kind of the dialogues we start with

with and um maybe my time is up. Okay. Um f I

and um maybe my time is up. Okay. Um f I will go into details later but uh one

will go into details later but uh one thing I want to mention is that we also

thing I want to mention is that we also support gas as a transition finance and

support gas as a transition finance and uh so I think the topic is transition

uh so I think the topic is transition finance for this session and we I will

finance for this session and we I will go details in the later part how we can

go details in the later part how we can support gas project. Thank you very

support gas project. Thank you very much.

much. >> Thank thank you so much uh Mr. Kosan uh

>> Thank thank you so much uh Mr. Kosan uh for your insights I think without uh

for your insights I think without uh delay I think uh if the slide is ready

delay I think uh if the slide is ready um but JBI have very hand-on experience

um but JBI have very hand-on experience in uh providing financing and next we

in uh providing financing and next we will see how we uh the the bank can

will see how we uh the the bank can unlock this potential to accelerate the

unlock this potential to accelerate the credible project around the transition

credible project around the transition finance so the next speaker will be from

finance so the next speaker will be from Mr. uh Praep Tanakhan the director of

Mr. uh Praep Tanakhan the director of energy transition from Asian Development

energy transition from Asian Development Bank. The floor is yours.

Bank. The floor is yours. >> Thank you very much and uh good morning

>> Thank you very much and uh good morning to all of you. Um and thanks to Azek for

to all of you. Um and thanks to Azek for inviting the Asian Development Bank uh

inviting the Asian Development Bank uh to this event and to this panel. Um I

to this event and to this panel. Um I think as you heard earlier today both

think as you heard earlier today both from the ADB my colleague and from IEA

from the ADB my colleague and from IEA um there is a fair amount of momentum on

um there is a fair amount of momentum on green finance. Now we need to double,

green finance. Now we need to double, triple or even quadruple the amount of

triple or even quadruple the amount of financing that's going towards green

financing that's going towards green field clean energy projects. Um there is

field clean energy projects. Um there is a significant second need that I think

a significant second need that I think we want to focus on today which is

we want to focus on today which is really transition finance. Focusing on

really transition finance. Focusing on what we call the high emitting and the

what we call the high emitting and the hard to evade sectors. So when you look

hard to evade sectors. So when you look at transition finance, you're really

at transition finance, you're really looking at a a ladder of options or

looking at a a ladder of options or mitigation measures, right? You first

mitigation measures, right? You first what you want to do is you want to

what you want to do is you want to maximize energy efficiency. That is the

maximize energy efficiency. That is the lowest hanging fruit possible. Once

lowest hanging fruit possible. Once you've done that, you need to electrify

you've done that, you need to electrify industrial processes to the extent you

industrial processes to the extent you can and transportation. And in order to

can and transportation. And in order to be able to do that using renewables to

be able to do that using renewables to the highest levels, you need to

the highest levels, you need to interconnect the power grid. You heard

interconnect the power grid. You heard all about the APG and that effort

all about the APG and that effort earlier today as well. But there are

earlier today as well. But there are still things that that electrification

still things that that electrification cannot meet which you know and there

cannot meet which you know and there that's where you look at green and

that's where you look at green and alternative fuels such as SAF in some

alternative fuels such as SAF in some cases also green ammonia green methanol

cases also green ammonia green methanol and so on. Then there is still the

and so on. Then there is still the problem of existing brownfield fossil

problem of existing brownfield fossil fuel assets coal and gas. These are

fuel assets coal and gas. These are often contracted and they they persist

often contracted and they they persist and operate for decades into the future.

and operate for decades into the future. So we need to be able to also abate

So we need to be able to also abate emissions from those including early

emissions from those including early termination. And finally the residual

termination. And finally the residual carbon dioxide emissions that are you

carbon dioxide emissions that are you know prevalent they need to be captured

know prevalent they need to be captured utilized or stored. Now this is a

utilized or stored. Now this is a simplistic slide. It doesn't mean that

simplistic slide. It doesn't mean that these steps are sequential or that this

these steps are sequential or that this is the order of how you would pursue

is the order of how you would pursue them. There are opportunities and and

them. There are opportunities and and prospects where you can actually do a

prospects where you can actually do a couple of them together or you might

couple of them together or you might even reverse the order. But again like

even reverse the order. But again like most models it is a simplistic

most models it is a simplistic presentation.

presentation. Second is what does it really take to do

Second is what does it really take to do these kinds of you know transition pro

these kinds of you know transition pro finance projects as you heard earlier

finance projects as you heard earlier today you need clear plans you need

today you need clear plans you need credible narratives at the country level

credible narratives at the country level that there is a net zero plan in place.

that there is a net zero plan in place. This plan has been well thought through.

This plan has been well thought through. You have modeled how we going to get

You have modeled how we going to get there and you have accompanying policies

there and you have accompanying policies in place. The second is you need

in place. The second is you need keystone projects. Now you need certain

keystone projects. Now you need certain what we call firstofakind projects that

what we call firstofakind projects that will actually move the market,

will actually move the market, demonstrate technologies, bring

demonstrate technologies, bring stakeholders together and create a

stakeholders together and create a certain amount of confidence which will

certain amount of confidence which will then scale the market. You need pools of

then scale the market. You need pools of capital and this pools of capital has to

capital and this pools of capital has to be from multiple sources. They have to

be from multiple sources. They have to be blended finance is really an option

be blended finance is really an option uh to deliver on this and then you need

uh to deliver on this and then you need people. You heard all about, you know,

people. You heard all about, you know, the role of of experts, the role of

the role of of experts, the role of stakeholders, the role of champions

stakeholders, the role of champions within government and within the private

within government and within the private sector. And finally, partnerships.

sector. And finally, partnerships. Again, something that was mentioned

Again, something that was mentioned earlier today, you need partnerships

earlier today, you need partnerships between government and the private

between government and the private sector. Within the government, you need

sector. Within the government, you need partnerships between the state and the

partnerships between the state and the local government. And finally, you need

local government. And finally, you need partnerships uh between countries. Now

partnerships uh between countries. Now if you look at some of the largest sort

if you look at some of the largest sort of energy transition projects that are

of energy transition projects that are being um uh experimented with globally

being um uh experimented with globally and by the way sorry for that typo it

and by the way sorry for that typo it should be first of a kind and not first

should be first of a kind and not first of a king that was just to make sure if

of a king that was just to make sure if you guys are actually paying attention

you guys are actually paying attention and can catch that typo but let's look

and can catch that typo but let's look at what does it take to get first few of

at what does it take to get first few of these projects off the ground. The first

these projects off the ground. The first thing is you need proven customer

thing is you need proven customer demand. You heard that several times in

demand. You heard that several times in the panel earlier. You need a clear

the panel earlier. You need a clear forward-looking market demand. This can

forward-looking market demand. This can come through mandates. It can come

come through mandates. It can come through targets or it can come through

through targets or it can come through green premium markets or through taxes.

green premium markets or through taxes. But the the project proponent needs to

But the the project proponent needs to know that their product will have a

know that their product will have a market into the decades into the future.

market into the decades into the future. Second, you need experienced leadership.

Second, you need experienced leadership. These projects are complex. They are

These projects are complex. They are first of a kind. You need to have people

first of a kind. You need to have people that can pull this off. People you

that can pull this off. People you frankly have extremely high levels of

frankly have extremely high levels of expertise. Third, you need to derisk

expertise. Third, you need to derisk them. If you look at the first carbon

them. If you look at the first carbon dioxide CCUs as a storage project in

dioxide CCUs as a storage project in Norway or you look at the first green

Norway or you look at the first green steel project that's picking up or you

steel project that's picking up or you look at the new interconnector that was

look at the new interconnector that was talked about earlier between Germany and

talked about earlier between Germany and the UK, there is strong government

the UK, there is strong government ownership of these projects. government

ownership of these projects. government comes in with d-risking in the form of

comes in with d-risking in the form of of it could be grants, it could be

of it could be grants, it could be credit enhancement, it could be

credit enhancement, it could be guarantees and just the fact that you

guarantees and just the fact that you have governments shaking hands and

have governments shaking hands and deciding to go ahead with these

deciding to go ahead with these strategic projects helps in de-risisking

strategic projects helps in de-risisking and then you need optimal project

and then you need optimal project location and execution. It's not a

location and execution. It's not a surprise that the first green ammonia

surprise that the first green ammonia export projects in the world are being

export projects in the world are being cited in Saudi Arabia, in Oman, in

cited in Saudi Arabia, in Oman, in India, and potentially in in in

India, and potentially in in in subsahara and Africa because that's

subsahara and Africa because that's where you have the lowest cost of

where you have the lowest cost of electricity. And and you need to put

electricity. And and you need to put these projects in places where you have

these projects in places where you have the requisite infrastructure, the people

the requisite infrastructure, the people and access to lowcost renewables.

and access to lowcost renewables. So I just want to have a call call to

So I just want to have a call call to action uh in this room and say look if

action uh in this room and say look if we really want to talk about transition

we really want to talk about transition finance you saw the launch of two

finance you saw the launch of two reports you know we've set the context

reports you know we've set the context we've identified the issues but if you

we've identified the issues but if you really want to move the agenda we need

really want to move the agenda we need to talk about projects in the region it

to talk about projects in the region it could be the first CCUS project that

could be the first CCUS project that involves companies in the region green

involves companies in the region green ammonia for instance blue methanol from

ammonia for instance blue methanol from you know natural gas with CCS or

you know natural gas with CCS or eco-industrial parks so perhaps during

eco-industrial parks so perhaps during the Q&A session we can talk a bit more

the Q&A session we can talk a bit more about this. Thanks.

about this. Thanks. >> Thank you so much uh Mr. Prad very uh

>> Thank you so much uh Mr. Prad very uh good insight into how securing finance

good insight into how securing finance and also you set a key example of

and also you set a key example of practical project in transition finance

practical project in transition finance already. I think without further ado we

already. I think without further ado we move to the next speaker Mr. Joe

move to the next speaker Mr. Joe Yamasukisan the special advisor for

Yamasukisan the special advisor for energy investment unit from IEA. The

energy investment unit from IEA. The floor is yours.

floor is yours. >> Yeah thank you very much. So as we have

>> Yeah thank you very much. So as we have just presented our overview. So let me

just presented our overview. So let me now elaborate a few points

now elaborate a few points and first one is yes this slide show

and first one is yes this slide show about 425 trillion in investment could

about 425 trillion in investment could be supported by 20 finance. So again

be supported by 20 finance. So again this figure is not exhaustive and it is

this figure is not exhaustive and it is the result of our analytical aggregation

the result of our analytical aggregation as the phase can be supported uh implies

as the phase can be supported uh implies that these investment are not

that these investment are not automatically classified as transient

automatically classified as transient finance because the presence of the

finance because the presence of the credible transion strategy is the one of

credible transion strategy is the one of the most essential requirement for this.

the most essential requirement for this. Likewise the areas not included here are

Likewise the areas not included here are not excluded from tion finance. Our

not excluded from tion finance. Our estimates simply reflect the scope of

estimates simply reflect the scope of the IIA analysis and expertise focusing

the IIA analysis and expertise focusing on primary on the energy and endo use

on primary on the energy and endo use sectors.

sectors. So this calculation cover investments

So this calculation cover investments such as energy efficiency in endo use

such as energy efficiency in endo use sectors fuel switching especially in

sectors fuel switching especially in emerging countries emission reduction

emerging countries emission reduction technology industry and natur

technology industry and natur distribution network or energy project

distribution network or energy project and gas fire that integrate emission

and gas fire that integrate emission reduction uh measures. So I think this

reduction uh measures. So I think this is this have some link with uh Mr. Kato

is this have some link with uh Mr. Kato mentioned in in earlier and all of these

mentioned in in earlier and all of these uh represent critical investment uh

uh represent critical investment uh early in the coming decade. Their

early in the coming decade. Their importance is particularly high in

importance is particularly high in emerging economies where applying

emerging economies where applying technology that fit into the green

technology that fit into the green category remains more challenging.

And to address the key question of why finance has not yet unlocked its full

finance has not yet unlocked its full potential, our report identifies several

potential, our report identifies several key challenges as shown here. So first

key challenges as shown here. So first in terms of credibility the foundation

in terms of credibility the foundation lies in strategic planning and consist

lies in strategic planning and consist uh consistent followup. While we do not

uh consistent followup. While we do not prescribe spec prescribe specific

prescribe spec prescribe specific requirement for transition strategy the

requirement for transition strategy the KPIs I mentioned uh can serve as

KPIs I mentioned uh can serve as practical tools within the planning

practical tools within the planning process and also tracking process

process and also tracking process against them is essential for build

against them is essential for build credibility. So that's the reason why we

credibility. So that's the reason why we provide analysis for the uh iron, steel,

provide analysis for the uh iron, steel, cement, uh critical minerals, natural

cement, uh critical minerals, natural gas in our report

gas in our report and equally important is the for process

and equally important is the for process which will require further discussion

which will require further discussion going forward.

going forward. Tion is of course a long-term journey

Tion is of course a long-term journey and it is difficult to anticipate all

and it is difficult to anticipate all the change uh that may occur along the

the change uh that may occur along the way. Therefore maintaining momentum

way. Therefore maintaining momentum requires update to strategy and

requires update to strategy and continuous adaptation to evolving

continuous adaptation to evolving condition

condition and on the expansion of the fin

and on the expansion of the fin expanding finance for we have already

expanding finance for we have already discussed the importance of

discussed the importance of inclusiveness. So I would like to

inclusiveness. So I would like to address the remaining point.

So this t this table shows the status of advanc

this table shows the status of advanc economy and emerging market uh and

economy and emerging market uh and development economies. As you can see

development economies. As you can see the second and third columns present the

the second and third columns present the size of equity and bond markets and it

size of equity and bond markets and it clearly indicate that capital market in

clearly indicate that capital market in EMD are much smaller than those in

EMD are much smaller than those in advanced economies. However, the forc

advanced economies. However, the forc illustrate that EMD asen China is where

illustrate that EMD asen China is where the largest energy investment will be

the largest energy investment will be needed over the next decades.

needed over the next decades. This makes crossborder capital info

This makes crossborder capital info essential.

essential. But in discussion on transition finance,

But in discussion on transition finance, difference in regional frameworks and

difference in regional frameworks and energy transition pway sometimes clear

energy transition pway sometimes clear create a barrier to its active use.

create a barrier to its active use. Indeed our liboard we conduct a survey

Indeed our liboard we conduct a survey of more than 20 global finance

of more than 20 global finance institution and we found that nearly

institution and we found that nearly half of the bank and about onethird of

half of the bank and about onethird of institutional investor explicitly

institutional investor explicitly consider both home country and host

consider both home country and host countries framework when making

countries framework when making investment decision. So we think that we

investment decision. So we think that we need to uh approach this close border

need to uh approach this close border capital info to how we can expand that

capital info to how we can expand that and finally looking at the right it is

and finally looking at the right it is perhaps unsurprising things but that

perhaps unsurprising things but that many of the world's taxomy framework

many of the world's taxomy framework including transient taxonomy existing in

including transient taxonomy existing in emerging economics side so the demand

emerging economics side so the demand side of finance these framework uh

side of finance these framework uh developed

developed align with their own transition pathway

align with their own transition pathway way. The challenge now is to make

way. The challenge now is to make effective use of this framework and to

effective use of this framework and to advance interoperability toward greater

advance interoperability toward greater equivalence ensuring that capital can

equivalence ensuring that capital can flow to where it is most needed

and this is the last page for me. So the reason why the inclusion of emerging

reason why the inclusion of emerging economies and hard to abate sector is so

economies and hard to abate sector is so important is that excluding these area

important is that excluding these area list create what we called financial

list create what we called financial carbon leakage.

carbon leakage. So many financial institutions use

So many financial institutions use finest finest emission as a key

finest finest emission as a key performance metrics. However, if this

performance metrics. However, if this indicator is applied too narrowly or

indicator is applied too narrowly or assessed only over short-term horizon,

assessed only over short-term horizon, it can unintentionally create different

it can unintentionally create different incentive like encourage

incentive like encourage encouraging institution to reduce these

encouraging institution to reduce these finance emission not by supporting

finance emission not by supporting decarbonization among bowers or

decarbonization among bowers or investors but simply by withdrawing

investors but simply by withdrawing finance from carbon intensive sectors

finance from carbon intensive sectors altogether.

altogether. Such behavior does not contribute to

Such behavior does not contribute to global decarbonization.

global decarbonization. It just shift lending and investment

It just shift lending and investment from regulated areas to those outside of

from regulated areas to those outside of the regulatory framework. So moreover,

the regulatory framework. So moreover, it can make it even more difficult to

it can make it even more difficult to engage with and support the sector where

engage with and support the sector where transition is most urgly needed. So this

transition is most urgly needed. So this is the concern behind financial carbon

is the concern behind financial carbon leakage and avoiding it is essential to

leakage and avoiding it is essential to achieve real world emission reduction in

achieve real world emission reduction in the border economy. I'd love to speak

the border economy. I'd love to speak here. Thank you.

here. Thank you. >> Thank thank you so much Mr. Yamasakisan

>> Thank thank you so much Mr. Yamasakisan for your insight from the IA. Uh I think

for your insight from the IA. Uh I think we'll come back to you. Uh let me invite

we'll come back to you. Uh let me invite the next speaker uh Mr. Kanichi Kurasan,

the next speaker uh Mr. Kanichi Kurasan, the chief manager and head of natural

the chief manager and head of natural resource group, Nepon Export and

resource group, Nepon Export and Investment Insurance, Nexi. The floor is

Investment Insurance, Nexi. The floor is yours.

>> Um, thank you very much for uh your introduction and um and thank you for

introduction and um and thank you for having us and hello everyone. I'm Konoma

having us and hello everyone. I'm Konoma from um Nexc Toko. Uh let me uh

from um Nexc Toko. Uh let me uh introduce ourselves

introduce ourselves um briefly actually. um the Nexi as a

um briefly actually. um the Nexi as a kind of Japanese governmental agency uh

kind of Japanese governmental agency uh the uh 100% owned by a Japanese

the uh 100% owned by a Japanese government and then uh simply say that

government and then uh simply say that we our kind of mission will be to

we our kind of mission will be to encouraging the Japanese uh companies

encouraging the Japanese uh companies like overseas business by providing the

like overseas business by providing the insurance uh directly to the Japanese

insurance uh directly to the Japanese company but indirectly to the bene

company but indirectly to the bene benefit to the uh borrower side as well

benefit to the uh borrower side as well but uh that's something we're doing Um

but uh that's something we're doing Um the the several insurance as I said that

the the several insurance as I said that um uh insurance type is mainly like

um uh insurance type is mainly like three uh we providing the export

three uh we providing the export insurance um the and investment

insurance um the and investment insurance as well as the u loan

insurance as well as the u loan insurance this like basically three uh

insurance this like basically three uh type of insurance and covering the

type of insurance and covering the political risk as well as uh commercial

political risk as well as uh commercial uh the uh project risk as well. Um

uh the uh project risk as well. Um the uh this shows that uh in details

the uh this shows that uh in details more like three type of insurance uh the

more like three type of insurance uh the export credit insurance as

export credit insurance as um the oversee investment insurance

um the oversee investment insurance number two and then number three loan

number two and then number three loan insurance and then in terms of um you

insurance and then in terms of um you know thinking uh as we think about the

know thinking uh as we think about the transition financing we are like more

transition financing we are like more like focusing on loan type of insurance

like focusing on loan type of insurance here. Now I'm also kind in charge of the

here. Now I'm also kind in charge of the loan insurance uh for oil and gas

loan insurance uh for oil and gas sector. So

sector. So uh go to the next slide. Um this is kind

uh go to the next slide. Um this is kind of you know loan type of loan insurance

of you know loan type of loan insurance uh simply like two type. One is like

uh simply like two type. One is like buyer credit insurance which is kind of

buyer credit insurance which is kind of linked to the uh Japanese export we call

linked to the uh Japanese export we call like tide financing and then the right

like tide financing and then the right side is uh oversee anti- loan insurance

side is uh oversee anti- loan insurance which is um so-called untied insurance.

which is um so-called untied insurance. uh it's not tied to the export but uh

uh it's not tied to the export but uh more like supporting to uh Japanese

more like supporting to uh Japanese obviously business like investment or

obviously business like investment or maybe off tech or so

um the uh the ext expansion of the ants online insurance uh we call it a lead

online insurance uh we call it a lead program from um a few years ago um this

program from um a few years ago um this is also kind of extension of the

is also kind of extension of the antsides type of program uh which uh try

antsides type of program uh which uh try to find the uh sort of uh Japan interest

to find the uh sort of uh Japan interest as much as as as wide as possible. Uh so

as much as as as wide as possible. Uh so that you can see that right uh you know

that you can see that right uh you know the bottom side of LE a uh the capital

the bottom side of LE a uh the capital word uh we support you know the uh

word uh we support you know the uh leading technologies environmental stuff

leading technologies environmental stuff and um you know alliance and development

and um you know alliance and development which if it's related to such you know

which if it's related to such you know it's context uh we'll be able to support

it's context uh we'll be able to support uh anti program for that project as

uh anti program for that project as well. So that in text of the transition

well. So that in text of the transition financing uh it's uh happy to have a

financing uh it's uh happy to have a kind of Japanese involvement obviously

kind of Japanese involvement obviously so that we can support the uh maybe from

so that we can support the uh maybe from title finance or maybe untitle finance

title finance or maybe untitle finance in addition we can also support the

in addition we can also support the transition finance based on the this uh

transition finance based on the this uh lead initiatives

lead initiatives uh which could be like you know relating

uh which could be like you know relating to the environmental energy and could be

to the environmental energy and could be the alliance uh with the other country

the alliance uh with the other country countries in including the Asan

countries in including the Asan countries

countries Um

Um uh this is also show you the kind of

uh this is also show you the kind of recommended loan interest. Uh

sorry about that. Um maybe it's it's too detailed. So maybe let us skip this

detailed. So maybe let us skip this slide. I just explains about the what's

slide. I just explains about the what's the buy the credits and OI.

the buy the credits and OI. Uh this is case study of lead program uh

Uh this is case study of lead program uh loan insurance to the uh Turkey exam

loan insurance to the uh Turkey exam bank. Uh this is something we're doing

bank. Uh this is something we're doing uh for some countries.

uh for some countries. Uh this number two uh for uh uh sort of

Uh this number two uh for uh uh sort of like green innovation like type of

like green innovation like type of programming in Egypt um wind power

programming in Egypt um wind power project as well.

project as well. Um this show you also kind of learn

Um this show you also kind of learn insurance uh for over uh overseas all

insurance uh for over uh overseas all over the world uh including some uh

over the world uh including some uh project in Asia. Uh this is uh uh sorry

project in Asia. Uh this is uh uh sorry uh this is uh overseas anti law. anti uh

uh this is uh overseas anti law. anti uh so too many untide project in not only

so too many untide project in not only Asia but overseas um so that's maybe our

Asia but overseas um so that's maybe our position is like uh as I said that we

position is like uh as I said that we are kind of government agency and then

are kind of government agency and then try uh the supporting to the the uh

try uh the supporting to the the uh private company a Japanese company and

private company a Japanese company and then uh we are always align with the uh

then uh we are always align with the uh you know we are close to the ministry of

you know we are close to the ministry of economy and trade and industry uh so

economy and trade and industry uh so well well known as METI uh we are kind

well well known as METI uh we are kind of always aligned to uh the what you

of always aligned to uh the what you know SME is thinking of in terms of

know SME is thinking of in terms of their strategy for including the energy

their strategy for including the energy so that um the uh we are uh keep

so that um the uh we are uh keep supporting that kind of project which is

supporting that kind of project which is the line with the MEI as well as the

the line with the MEI as well as the Japanese companies thanks so much

Japanese companies thanks so much >> thank thank you so much uh Mr. uh

>> thank thank you so much uh Mr. uh Kumarasan for for your insight about

Kumarasan for for your insight about nexis I think in the project financing I

nexis I think in the project financing I think insurance is quite important to

think insurance is quite important to ensure that uh uh the whole process of

ensure that uh uh the whole process of financing is currently so the role of

financing is currently so the role of nex is quite important in this case I

nex is quite important in this case I will come back to you I think um I will

will come back to you I think um I will throw the first round of question to our

throw the first round of question to our uh panelist uh starting from uh Katosan

uh panelist uh starting from uh Katosan I think uh from J big I want to know

I think uh from J big I want to know also how the financing for this

also how the financing for this transition project progressing so far

transition project progressing so far and where do you still see the gap in

and where do you still see the gap in mobilizing private capital across the

mobilizing private capital across the AAN or as Asia countries uh please uh if

AAN or as Asia countries uh please uh if you may uh share your insight please

you may uh share your insight please okay thank you very much um I will start

okay thank you very much um I will start with the figures so um the results so

with the figures so um the results so concerning the number of the green and

concerning the number of the green and transition finance so we including green

transition finance so we including green finance also but the project total

finance also but the project total confirming amount of the our loan or

confirming amount of the our loan or co-inancing amount we um basically

co-inancing amount we um basically co-inance with the commercial banks so

co-inance with the commercial banks so we at the commercial bank portion but

we at the commercial bank portion but it's about approximately 10 billion US

it's about approximately 10 billion US dollars uh it fluctuate it used to be 20

dollars uh it fluctuate it used to be 20 uh US 20 billion US in 2023 whether it

uh US 20 billion US in 2023 whether it was just 7.5 billion US for 2024 but I

was just 7.5 billion US for 2024 but I think it's just a matter of the pipeline

think it's just a matter of the pipeline you know um so it's basically average of

you know um so it's basically average of about 10 billion US dollars so this is

about 10 billion US dollars so this is how we are by means of figures um by

how we are by means of figures um by means of the the financing gap I mean we

means of the the financing gap I mean we see many uh financing gaps in all the

see many uh financing gaps in all the areas of the transition fields so we

areas of the transition fields so we have close dialogue with the Vietnam

have close dialogue with the Vietnam government uh Indonesian government Thai

government uh Indonesian government Thai government Malaysian government and

government Malaysian government and Singaporean government they're all in

Singaporean government they're all in the term of transition era um I think

the term of transition era um I think most of the I think most of the people

most of the I think most of the people mentioned about the coal fire but people

mentioned about the coal fire but people are transitioning into more into gas

are transitioning into more into gas into renewables. Uh so when they want to

into renewables. Uh so when they want to trans transition to new kind of um

trans transition to new kind of um powers like gas to powers they need the

powers like gas to powers they need the regulations. So we are now on the um

regulations. So we are now on the um situation of having closed with all the

situation of having closed with all the governments how we create um the ASUPA

governments how we create um the ASUPA project and all the other transition

project and all the other transition project to be bankable and I think all

project to be bankable and I think all the people in the panel mentioned about

the people in the panel mentioned about how we create the business to be

how we create the business to be beneficial and bankable ways we are

beneficial and bankable ways we are under situation of having this kind of

under situation of having this kind of dialogue. Uh this is what we are now.

dialogue. Uh this is what we are now. >> Thank you so much for your insight kan.

>> Thank you so much for your insight kan. Next I move to the ADB uh brands I think

Next I move to the ADB uh brands I think uh my question to you is because you

uh my question to you is because you already in your presentation present

already in your presentation present about energy transition mechanism and we

about energy transition mechanism and we want to know more what progress have ADB

want to know more what progress have ADB achieve through that mechanism and in

achieve through that mechanism and in Southeast Asia and how can we attract

Southeast Asia and how can we attract more private uh sector partnership in

more private uh sector partnership in these sectors if you can share your

these sectors if you can share your insight.

insight. >> Uh thank you. I think um if there's one

>> Uh thank you. I think um if there's one thing that we can all take away from

thing that we can all take away from this panel is that u you know there is

this panel is that u you know there is increasing momentum to finance green but

increasing momentum to finance green but very few people really want to finance

very few people really want to finance the brown to green transition and and

the brown to green transition and and you heard about all the reasons why that

you heard about all the reasons why that is the case. So what ADB did is back in

is the case. So what ADB did is back in 2021 is we decided to see if we can go

2021 is we decided to see if we can go out and look at one particular problem

out and look at one particular problem within the brown to green uh area and

within the brown to green uh area and see if we can tackle it and that's how

see if we can tackle it and that's how we developed this the energy transition

we developed this the energy transition mechanism approach and we've started

mechanism approach and we've started focusing on grid connected large scale

focusing on grid connected large scale coal fired power plants as I said

coal fired power plants as I said earlier this is a particular problem

earlier this is a particular problem because across Southeast Asia the

because across Southeast Asia the average age of a cold fired power plant

average age of a cold fired power plant is about 15 years now if you look at

is about 15 years now if you look at Europe or you look at the US plants are

Europe or you look at the US plants are you know The average age is 40 to 50

you know The average age is 40 to 50 years. Which means the plants in

years. Which means the plants in Southeast Asia are young and they are

Southeast Asia are young and they are going to operate if you don't stop them

going to operate if you don't stop them deliberately. They're going to operate

deliberately. They're going to operate for the next 3 to four to five decades.

for the next 3 to four to five decades. Now

Now energy demand is growing. So you can say

energy demand is growing. So you can say we can just keep adding renewables. But

we can just keep adding renewables. But that doesn't always help because if you

that doesn't always help because if you look at the island of Java, you've got

look at the island of Java, you've got over supply. And the fact that you have

over supply. And the fact that you have a lot of existing coal fired power

a lot of existing coal fired power plants means you don't have space to

plants means you don't have space to bring in renewables into the mix. So

bring in renewables into the mix. So that's what the ETM is about. It's

that's what the ETM is about. It's really about releveraging and

really about releveraging and refinancing these assets and providing

refinancing these assets and providing an incentive for them to be uh shut down

an incentive for them to be uh shut down or terminated earlier than the existing

or terminated earlier than the existing power purchase agreement or the

power purchase agreement or the contracted agreement in place. Now,

contracted agreement in place. Now, we've been working in multiple countries

we've been working in multiple countries across the region. We're working on

across the region. We're working on several pilot uh transactions. Um we're

several pilot uh transactions. Um we're not in a place to sort of celebrate by

not in a place to sort of celebrate by saying we've actually managed to close

saying we've actually managed to close on any of them. There are several

on any of them. There are several challenges. uh we've talked about them

challenges. uh we've talked about them in different ways and running running

in different ways and running running out of time but I think suffice to say

out of time but I think suffice to say that we brought together the private

that we brought together the private sector bilateral governments who

sector bilateral governments who provided grants and concessional money

provided grants and concessional money and ADB's own balance sheet in

and ADB's own balance sheet in collaboration with governments in

collaboration with governments in Indonesia in the Philippines uh in

Indonesia in the Philippines uh in Vietnam uh in Cambodia and other places.

Vietnam uh in Cambodia and other places. We are looking to develop a series of

We are looking to develop a series of pilots and we hope we'll be able to have

pilots and we hope we'll be able to have some successes in the coming weeks and

some successes in the coming weeks and months and years. Thanks. Thank you so

months and years. Thanks. Thank you so much Zan for your insight. Very

much Zan for your insight. Very grateful. Uh the next I want to ask the

grateful. Uh the next I want to ask the IA again Mr. Yamas Sakisan. I think um

IA again Mr. Yamas Sakisan. I think um you already highlight in your

you already highlight in your presentation but we want to know more

presentation but we want to know more what are the main barrier uh to deploy

what are the main barrier uh to deploy the large transition uh finance

the large transition uh finance technologies at scale how to do that and

technologies at scale how to do that and then how uh can policy coordination can

then how uh can policy coordination can unlock uh investment for to support the

unlock uh investment for to support the transition finance.

transition finance. >> Thank you very much. Yeah. So the of

>> Thank you very much. Yeah. So the of course the challenge uh the for the

course the challenge uh the for the trenchion technology. So the each

trenchion technology. So the each technology have the different challenge

technology have the different challenge and also if we talk about the uh

and also if we talk about the uh investment uh especially in emerging

investment uh especially in emerging economies so there are the various risk

economies so there are the various risk about the country risk or currency risk

about the country risk or currency risk and also the policy and the the

and also the policy and the the regulatory uncertainty. So I think that

regulatory uncertainty. So I think that that kind of the whole investment uh

that kind of the whole investment uh value uh it is very important to

value uh it is very important to collaborate with the uh maybe the MDB or

collaborate with the uh maybe the MDB or the government related bank like the JB

the government related bank like the JB or ADB or Nexi that is a very important

or ADB or Nexi that is a very important things and another thing uh from the

things and another thing uh from the transition finance perspective the one

transition finance perspective the one thing is the how you can explain uh your

thing is the how you can explain uh your how the transition characteristic that

how the transition characteristic that is very important. So from our analysis

is very important. So from our analysis so I think still uh in this moment the

so I think still uh in this moment the KPI is very important for explain that

KPI is very important for explain that so how because sometimes the if you

so how because sometimes the if you don't have the clear evidence or the

don't have the clear evidence or the explanation for your transition process

explanation for your transition process that will uh the people hesitate to uh

that will uh the people hesitate to uh support that investment so how you can

support that investment so how you can show the progress of the decouponation

show the progress of the decouponation by the appropriate KPI for I think that

by the appropriate KPI for I think that is not we can't have a uh unified KPI

is not we can't have a uh unified KPI for the all sectors. It should be very

for the all sectors. It should be very detailed or the sector specific KPI but

detailed or the sector specific KPI but that will also help the uh investment.

that will also help the uh investment. >> Thank you so much uh Yamasikan. I think

>> Thank you so much uh Yamasikan. I think the next for nexis I would like also

the next for nexis I would like also want to know how Nexis support energy

want to know how Nexis support energy transition project especially for

transition project especially for natural gas and LG facility amid

natural gas and LG facility amid tightening ESG uh standard. So how you

tightening ESG uh standard. So how you balance those

balance those >> inve

we are kind of keen to support the transition financing type of things and

transition financing type of things and including gas uh we are kind of open to

including gas uh we are kind of open to like support the gas but maybe challenge

like support the gas but maybe challenge will be um you know we have to um sort

will be um you know we have to um sort of like uh involve the commercial banks

of like uh involve the commercial banks as you know they have kind of faced

as you know they have kind of faced difficulty about the uh their financial

difficulty about the uh their financial emissions uh finance emissions uh uh

emissions uh finance emissions uh uh kind of scope three type of thing. So uh

kind of scope three type of thing. So uh for the gas uh so it's uh for maybe

for the gas uh so it's uh for maybe having the kind of transition finance

having the kind of transition finance how uh to to common understanding that

how uh to to common understanding that that necessity of the transition finance

that necessity of the transition finance it's important also how to involve that

it's important also how to involve that kind of commercial bank including of

kind of commercial bank including of course the Japanese banks and then the

course the Japanese banks and then the international well-known bank actually

international well-known bank actually the uh until yesterday I went to kind of

the uh until yesterday I went to kind of attended the um DXF Asia in 2025 and

attended the um DXF Asia in 2025 and then we talked with the se you It's

then we talked with the se you It's commercial international commercial bank

commercial international commercial bank and they are still you know keen to uh

and they are still you know keen to uh support the some type of the gas project

support the some type of the gas project uh could could be possible could not be

uh could could be possible could not be possible to the upstreams but still they

possible to the upstreams but still they are very keen to support about the kind

are very keen to support about the kind of midstream downstream like including

of midstream downstream like including energy plant or maybe the gas power so

energy plant or maybe the gas power so that that's uh encouraging me to uh

that that's uh encouraging me to uh support that project as well so

support that project as well so >> thank you so much for your insight I

>> thank you so much for your insight I think uh maybe the next round uh each

think uh maybe the next round uh each maybe limit to one minutes because we

maybe limit to one minutes because we don't have much time uh with regard with

don't have much time uh with regard with the uh natural gas I think it link with

the uh natural gas I think it link with these uh financer is uh particular for

these uh financer is uh particular for JB I also want to know that how JB can

JB I also want to know that how JB can balance support for gas infrastructure

balance support for gas infrastructure with a long-term uh uh carbon neutral

with a long-term uh uh carbon neutral goal in this regard

goal in this regard >> um thank you very much um first of all I

>> um thank you very much um first of all I would like to presentate how we approach

would like to presentate how we approach gas projects. So uh Nex you mentioned

gas projects. So uh Nex you mentioned about the upstream and midstream and

about the upstream and midstream and downstream but for us we um support all

downstream but for us we um support all the value chain. So we do from upstream

the value chain. So we do from upstream to midstream to downstream. This is our

to midstream to downstream. This is our approach at this moment. But it's not

approach at this moment. But it's not like uh we can do any kind of gas

like uh we can do any kind of gas projects all over the world. Uh we have

projects all over the world. Uh we have to determine that in the long term the

to determine that in the long term the decarbonization

decarbonization um road map of the each partner in

um road map of the each partner in countries. So we examine the um the role

countries. So we examine the um the role of the gas in each country's power uh

of the gas in each country's power uh power development plans or energy road

power development plans or energy road map. How are they going to try the

map. How are they going to try the carbon neutrality within 2050 or any

carbon neutrality within 2050 or any time of period of that they say that

time of period of that they say that they going to have reach to carbon

they going to have reach to carbon neutrality. So um we of course align

neutrality. So um we of course align with their policies and then we provide

with their policies and then we provide our solutions how we can deal with that

our solutions how we can deal with that starting from gas to carbon to our

starting from gas to carbon to our project. So um of course we will go into

project. So um of course we will go into more details of alternative fuels like

more details of alternative fuels like the bofuels or uh hydrogen ammonia all

the bofuels or uh hydrogen ammonia all together as a package we provide

together as a package we provide financing. Yeah. Thank you.

financing. Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you so much uh the insight from

>> Thank you so much uh the insight from JB. Next for the ADB I think uh the next

JB. Next for the ADB I think uh the next question we want to know also what

question we want to know also what lesson can we draw from the successful

lesson can we draw from the successful successful decarbonization project in

successful decarbonization project in heart of bed sector like steel cement

heart of bed sector like steel cement and heavy uh transportation

and heavy uh transportation >> yeah you know that's a question that

>> yeah you know that's a question that probably can't be answered because we

probably can't be answered because we don't have any successful examples I

don't have any successful examples I mean just just last week u the financial

mean just just last week u the financial times had an article that said that the

times had an article that said that the largest green steel project in Europe

largest green steel project in Europe that the whole world is watching to see

that the whole world is watching to see how it's going to pan out is already

how it's going to pan out is already running into trouble. This this is

running into trouble. This this is despite having received hundreds of

despite having received hundreds of millions of dollars or Swedish corona in

millions of dollars or Swedish corona in this case of aid from the government. Um

this case of aid from the government. Um so I think uh we're maybe if I can just

so I think uh we're maybe if I can just reiterate what I said earlier is that

reiterate what I said earlier is that you really need exceptional uh project

you really need exceptional uh project sponsors to come together. You need very

sponsors to come together. You need very strong government support uh on policies

strong government support uh on policies on mandates and actual money on the

on mandates and actual money on the table in terms of supporting these

table in terms of supporting these projects. You need very good project

projects. You need very good project execution. You cannot get anything wrong

execution. You cannot get anything wrong because these first-of-akind projects

because these first-of-akind projects are extremely complex. You only get one

are extremely complex. You only get one chance to get get them right. Um and you

chance to get get them right. Um and you need partnerships. You need you need

need partnerships. You need you need unconventional financiers to come in.

unconventional financiers to come in. What we are seeing in the case of some

What we are seeing in the case of some of these projects, you have

of these projects, you have philanthropies coming in, your venture

philanthropies coming in, your venture capital is coming in and you if you look

capital is coming in and you if you look at the project company, it's not your

at the project company, it's not your typical uh you know developers. Now you

typical uh you know developers. Now you have some of your suppliers are now on

have some of your suppliers are now on your uh project company. Your offtakers

your uh project company. Your offtakers are now getting on your on your capital

are now getting on your on your capital table. So I think it's unconventional

table. So I think it's unconventional partnerships also I think will be

partnerships also I think will be important. Thank you. Thank you so much

important. Thank you. Thank you so much for your insight and very frank uh

for your insight and very frank uh experience sharing with with our uh

experience sharing with with our uh audience today. And uh the next uh for

audience today. And uh the next uh for the IA I think this important how are

the IA I think this important how are the shifting global energy strategy in

the shifting global energy strategy in the US and the Europe saping the capital

the US and the Europe saping the capital flow and transition finance in Asia. How

flow and transition finance in Asia. How those geopolitic will save the

those geopolitic will save the transition finance in Asia?

transition finance in Asia? >> Yeah, thank you. So of course the many

>> Yeah, thank you. So of course the many can be made about the current situation

can be made about the current situation but the I think the important thing is

but the I think the important thing is from the policy side is a clear clear

from the policy side is a clear clear prioritization and direction and also

prioritization and direction and also the uh international collaboration. So

the uh international collaboration. So from the policy side I think the the two

from the policy side I think the the two key area uh for government. So one is

key area uh for government. So one is the developing the national level maybe

the developing the national level maybe road map or a clear direction clear

road map or a clear direction clear strategy for decarbonization also

strategy for decarbonization also linking with the uh the the energy

linking with the uh the the energy security or supply chain security or

security or supply chain security or also the industrial company

also the industrial company independence. I think that clear

independence. I think that clear guidance uh it is it support the

guidance uh it is it support the corporate or project level uh activities

corporate or project level uh activities and also one more things is the

and also one more things is the importance is the international

importance is the international cooperation and how we can uh recognize

cooperation and how we can uh recognize the real value of this transient finance

the real value of this transient finance because the uh now uh so how I think the

because the uh now uh so how I think the incentive is also needed for this

incentive is also needed for this transient finance especially from the

transient finance especially from the advance economies to the emerging

advance economies to the emerging countries. So how we can uh make some uh

countries. So how we can uh make some uh effort in the international

effort in the international collaboration and also maybe the

collaboration and also maybe the collaboration with finance side to how

collaboration with finance side to how we can uh tweet this transion finance in

we can uh tweet this transion finance in the finance machine uh accounting or

the finance machine uh accounting or other uh climate target is very

other uh climate target is very important. So I think yeah those can

important. So I think yeah those can help and also that this committee is

help and also that this committee is very important to

very important to recognize this value of the tip finance.

recognize this value of the tip finance. Thank thank you so much uh for your

Thank thank you so much uh for your insight from the IEA. I think the last

insight from the IEA. I think the last question to uh the next is uh that uh

question to uh the next is uh that uh what kind of measure can we strengthen

what kind of measure can we strengthen the regional cooperation for kind of

the regional cooperation for kind of Japanese style transition finance that

Japanese style transition finance that could be applied and support to a

could be applied and support to a >> um thank you very much for asking. uh

>> um thank you very much for asking. uh maybe it's difficult to like explain it

maybe it's difficult to like explain it within short time for the Japanese style

within short time for the Japanese style uh transition finance but uh actually uh

uh transition finance but uh actually uh Nexi attended the kind of sub working uh

Nexi attended the kind of sub working uh uh led by me for the transition

uh led by me for the transition financing promotion in Asia so that

financing promotion in Asia so that maybe in firstly to understand to make

maybe in firstly to understand to make them the people understand the common

them the people understand the common understanding for uh the uh Japanese

understanding for uh the uh Japanese style transition finance is the first

style transition finance is the first way and also to involve the uh you know

way and also to involve the uh you know uh discussion

uh discussion with the other countries the government

with the other countries the government sort of like G2G framework for that for

sort of like G2G framework for that for example let's say like uh the the

example let's say like uh the the framework uh making the kind of listing

framework uh making the kind of listing of the transition uh what which is a

of the transition uh what which is a transition activity so that maybe we can

transition activity so that maybe we can determine and then then we are uh going

determine and then then we are uh going to support that transition uh for uh by

to support that transition uh for uh by the transition financing together with

the transition financing together with maybe the governmental uh you know

maybe the governmental uh you know agency like uh Nexi uh that's one of the

agency like uh Nexi uh that's one of the things also like involving the uh other

things also like involving the uh other like advanced country like uh let's say

like advanced country like uh let's say like uh now UK is quite quite ke

like uh now UK is quite quite ke transition finance Canada as well. So uh

transition finance Canada as well. So uh we try to find the company friends. So

we try to find the company friends. So >> thank thank you so much. I think we are

>> thank thank you so much. I think we are run out of time but I think without your

run out of time but I think without your participation seem uh we are not very

participation seem uh we are not very been responding to the audience. So

been responding to the audience. So unless you have if one question if you

unless you have if one question if you really want to ask raise your hand that

really want to ask raise your hand that the last opportunity

the last opportunity anyone have question raise your hand and

anyone have question raise your hand and okay before we stand between your lines

okay before we stand between your lines let me wrap up I think today discussion

let me wrap up I think today discussion have reaffirmed that transition finance

have reaffirmed that transition finance is not the option but it necessity to

is not the option but it necessity to ensure the Asia's particular grow remain

ensure the Asia's particular grow remain sustainable and inclusive Ive key

sustainable and inclusive Ive key takeaway from this important session

takeaway from this important session including strengthening regional

including strengthening regional financing framework through the ASEX uh

financing framework through the ASEX uh activity encourage dual PLA financing

activity encourage dual PLA financing recognizing transition along the green

recognizing transition along the green finance also mobilize blend finance and

finance also mobilize blend finance and the risk private investment through

the risk private investment through institution like here JB ADB Nexis and

institution like here JB ADB Nexis and other international organization to

other international organization to support LI including the IA and area

support LI including the IA and area here. Uh thank you uh our distinguished

here. Uh thank you uh our distinguished panelists and please uh uh share with me

panelists and please uh uh share with me and give them a big applause, a round of

and give them a big applause, a round of appl applause. Thank you so much by the

appl applause. Thank you so much by the way. Yeah.

way. Yeah. >> Thank you very much to Dr. Han and of

>> Thank you very much to Dr. Han and of course our panelist. Could we kindly

course our panelist. Could we kindly have our moderator and panelist step

have our moderator and panelist step forward for a quick photo please?

And I'm sure you don't need me to tell you.

you. Thumbs up, please.

>> Thank you so much once again, Dr. Han, Mr. Kato, Mr. Praep, Mr. Yamasaki, and

Mr. Kato, Mr. Praep, Mr. Yamasaki, and of course, Mr. Konuma. Hopefully with

of course, Mr. Konuma. Hopefully with strong transition finance solutions in

strong transition finance solutions in place the necessary partnerships we

place the necessary partnerships we urgently need for a zero emission future

urgently need for a zero emission future can indeed forge ahead. As we come to

can indeed forge ahead. As we come to the end of our event, let's take this

the end of our event, let's take this opportunity to invite on stage for his

opportunity to invite on stage for his closing remark a council member of the

closing remark a council member of the ASEAN BAC Malaysia and group CEO of

ASEAN BAC Malaysia and group CEO of Yissan Holdings Bhat representing the

Yissan Holdings Bhat representing the advocacy group of ASAC. Ladies and

advocacy group of ASAC. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Mr. Lim Chern

gentlemen, please welcome Mr. Lim Chern Yuan.

Good afternoon, excellencies, esteemed colleagues, and business

esteemed colleagues, and business leaders. It is an honor to deliver the

leaders. It is an honor to deliver the closing remarks for what has been a

closing remarks for what has been a productive and insightful ASAC business

productive and insightful ASAC business forum. Over the past day, we have

forum. Over the past day, we have discussed bridging the gap. Bridging the

discussed bridging the gap. Bridging the gap between ambitious net zero

gap between ambitious net zero commitments and on the ground commercial

commitments and on the ground commercial practical realities of ASEAND and its

practical realities of ASEAND and its partners energy transition. The dialogue

partners energy transition. The dialogue has been character characterized by

has been character characterized by sharing of honest experiences, cautious

sharing of honest experiences, cautious optimism and a unified vision for a

optimism and a unified vision for a sustainable, affordable, inclusive

sustainable, affordable, inclusive future. We set out to find the practical

future. We set out to find the practical pathways towards carbon neutrality and I

pathways towards carbon neutrality and I felt the case studies and panel

felt the case studies and panel discussions have delivered precisely

discussions have delivered precisely that.

that. We saw that the Assam power grid

We saw that the Assam power grid highlighted not just not just an usual

highlighted not just not just an usual infrastructure project but as a

infrastructure project but as a foundational necess necessary

foundational necess necessary infrastructure in bring regional grid

infrastructure in bring regional grid stability and energy interoperability.

stability and energy interoperability. It is a key to unlocking crossborder

It is a key to unlocking crossborder renewable energy trade and enhancing

renewable energy trade and enhancing energy security, stability in power

energy security, stability in power supply and affordability,

supply and affordability, allowing countries to share their

allowing countries to share their natural resources and bring down more

natural resources and bring down more importantly the cost of power for each

importantly the cost of power for each other. The focus on sustainable bofuels

other. The focus on sustainable bofuels for vehicles moved the conversation be

for vehicles moved the conversation be beyond long-term electrification goals

beyond long-term electrification goals and into immediate actionable

and into immediate actionable decarbonization efforts for our existing

decarbonization efforts for our existing and emerging transport fleets. Our

and emerging transport fleets. Our discussion on transition finance

discussion on transition finance revealed the critical mechanism needed

revealed the critical mechanism needed to scale these initiatives. The

to scale these initiatives. The consensus among financial experts was

consensus among financial experts was clear. We need to innovate, execute

clear. We need to innovate, execute projects well, especially on green and

projects well, especially on green and transition infrastructure and

transition infrastructure and investments. We need to blend public and

investments. We need to blend public and private capital effectively and develop

private capital effectively and develop local capacity to structure these

local capacity to structure these complex deals to make it bankable. The

complex deals to make it bankable. The financing tools are definitely there for

financing tools are definitely there for us to tap on.

us to tap on. These sessions reinforce the core

These sessions reinforce the core principle of the Azac platform. One

principle of the Azac platform. One goal, various pathway. We understand

goal, various pathway. We understand that there's no single solution feasible

that there's no single solution feasible for 11 diverse nations. Each country

for 11 diverse nations. Each country across ASEAN and its partners must

across ASEAN and its partners must pursue decarbonization at a pace and

pursue decarbonization at a pace and through technological mix that sustains

through technological mix that sustains its economic growth. The forum has

its economic growth. The forum has proven that the pathway may vary, but

proven that the pathway may vary, but the destination of carbon neutrality

the destination of carbon neutrality while sustaining economic and social

while sustaining economic and social inclusivity is possible.

inclusivity is possible. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the

Ladies and gentlemen, we have the ambitions, natural resources and capital

ambitions, natural resources and capital within ASEAN. What we need now is an

within ASEAN. What we need now is an inclusive marketplace that rewards this

inclusive marketplace that rewards this ambition, mobilizes private sector

ambition, mobilizes private sector finance at speed and ensure every

finance at speed and ensure every pathway, whether it's bofuel, renewables

pathway, whether it's bofuel, renewables or crossber partnership is optimized for

or crossber partnership is optimized for scale. This brings me to our critical

scale. This brings me to our critical closing message and a call to action for

closing message and a call to action for every businesses represented today.

every businesses represented today. Asseanbach is currently advocating the

Asseanbach is currently advocating the ASEAN common carbon market framework.

ASEAN common carbon market framework. This framework is essential. It is the

This framework is essential. It is the tool that will integrate our varied

tool that will integrate our varied national efforts into a single cohesive

national efforts into a single cohesive and powerful economic driver. It will

and powerful economic driver. It will turn climate action from a cost center

turn climate action from a cost center into a competitive advantage. For the

into a competitive advantage. For the ACCAF to succeed, it requires the active

ACCAF to succeed, it requires the active leadership and unwavering support of all

leadership and unwavering support of all the business community in this room. So

the business community in this room. So let us commit to moving from dialogue to

let us commit to moving from dialogue to decisive action. Let us embrace our role

decisive action. Let us embrace our role as the architects of a common,

as the architects of a common, prosperous and sustainable ASEAN future.

prosperous and sustainable ASEAN future. The success of Azac vision and viability

The success of Azac vision and viability of our region's transition will also

of our region's transition will also develop faster when we support and build

develop faster when we support and build this unified carbon market. So with that

this unified carbon market. So with that I thank you all and may the work begin.

I thank you all and may the work begin. Thank you.

Thank you. >> Thank you Mr. Lim for highlighting the

>> Thank you Mr. Lim for highlighting the key messages of our forum today and

key messages of our forum today and emphasizing what needs to be done to

emphasizing what needs to be done to move forward together towards net zero.

move forward together towards net zero. Ladies and gentlemen, as we conclude the

Ladies and gentlemen, as we conclude the ASAC business forum, we'd like to extend

ASAC business forum, we'd like to extend our sincere appreciation to all our

our sincere appreciation to all our speakers and participants for their

speakers and participants for their valuable insights and contribution

valuable insights and contribution today. And yes, that's all of you. Let's

today. And yes, that's all of you. Let's give yourself a big round of applause.

give yourself a big round of applause. You're still here despite lunch calling.

You're still here despite lunch calling. Through our discussions on the ASEAN

Through our discussions on the ASEAN power grid, sustainable bofuels and

power grid, sustainable bofuels and transition finance, we have deepened our

transition finance, we have deepened our shared understanding of the pathways

shared understanding of the pathways towards a decarbonized and sustainable

towards a decarbonized and sustainable Asia. Thank you once again for your

Asia. Thank you once again for your presence here. We look forward to seeing

presence here. We look forward to seeing your continued progress throughout the

your continued progress throughout the Azac Partnership. I'm Sheni Iman Lee

Azac Partnership. I'm Sheni Iman Lee signing off. Stay safe and have a

signing off. Stay safe and have a productive afternoon ahead.

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YouTube Transcript:#AEBF25 | Day 3 - Asia Zero Emission Community (AZEC) Business Forum