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Exposing My $2M/yr Sales Call Strategy (For Sales Systems Agencies) | Saad Belcaid | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Exposing My $2M/yr Sales Call Strategy (For Sales Systems Agencies)
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Video Transcript
Sales are kind of like that sad piece of
bread that everyone in the AI and
automation space seems to ignore. But
sales is where sales are made. And in
talking with hundreds of freelancers and
entrepreneurs, the same problem I keep
hearing is, "I know how to build, but I
don't know how to sell." So today, I
want to share with you a raw video of me
giving live feedback on a sales call. I
had no idea OBS was running in the
background, so I figured it would be
beneficial for you guys to hear it, too.
This is a full master class the same way
I train sales reps inside my 165k a
month salesome agency. So let's get into
it. What's up? What's up everybody? How
you guys doing?
>> How's it going? Pretty good.
>> Hey Max, you want to act today?
>> Yeah, I think it might be fun.
>> Awesome. You want to be a prospect or a closer?
closer?
>> Uh I've got a closing script that I'd
like to try out.
>> So hopefully you guys all brought your notepads
notepads
because it's going to be a pretty hefty
session. Hey Mik, hey David, Mika, Akos.
Good to see you guys. So today we're
going to pick the fintech industry.
I think we've never done it. We've done
recruitment right now. We've done cyber
security, AI startups, a bunch of
industries. We actually also we also did
um recruitment. So IT recruitment. Yeah,
it was pretty good. It was last week. So
today we're going to tackle fintech.
It's a pretty spicy niche. I've had
multiple clients in different tech
space. So, it would be uh awesome for
you guys to also
learn how to speak to these decision
makers within that space. Sounds good.
Uh, hey guys, I have my first sales call
in 3 hours. Do you think this offer
would work? Also, should I say that 30
30-day period? Yes. Yes. Always. You
want to say our guarantee starts after
the warm-up process. Usually after 14 to
21 days. Okay. It starts after the 14 to
21 days. and make sure to include that
in your proposal always. It's actually
in the classroom um templates in the
panda dooc proposal. You will see that I
include that. So for people that are new
here, the way these calls usually go is
we pick a member as a closer and the
other person is going to act as a
prospect and then you guys can just go
to town and then I'm going to constantly
give feedback as you guys go. Sounds good.
good.
>> Is there any background info on the
fintech company?
>> Yes, I'll tell you exactly. So
essentially you are pitching the
decision maker within a fintech company.
It doesn't have to be a startup.
Actually let's not do startup. It has to
be just a generic fintech company within
the fintech industry. You are on a sales
call with a decision maker. Okay.
Obviously you don't know their their
ideal client. So you're just basically
in discovery call. You want to close
them. Okay.
>> Okay. Cool. Hey uh hey Harry. How's it
uh how's it going? What uh made you want
to hop on the call today?
Hey. Yeah, thank you. So, I saw your
email and I found it interesting. So,
here I am.
>> Nice. Nice. Pretty cool. Are you in uh
San Francisco?
>> Uh, it looks like it, doesn't it? But no.
no.
>> Yeah. Now, where are you calling in from?
from?
>> I'm calling from India. What about you?
>> Oh, cool. I'm in uh I'm in Michigan.
It's nice day today.
>> Is it like cold there? Like you wearing
a jacket?
Yeah, it just turned 60°. So, now we're
wearing uh sweatshirts.
>> Okay. So,
>> I don't get the Fahrenheit reference,
but okay. Seems still.
>> Yeah, it's uh it's pretty warm, but uh
it's cold relative to actual summer.
>> Anyways, I want to really jump right
into this. So, um uh the reason why
we're on this call today is cuz I I
wanted to learn about, you know, you
guys' current growth process and uh how
you guys help connect companies.
uh like your guys' fintech with decision
makers already searching for um your
guys' solutions. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And see if Okay. Uh that was good. I
gotta give feedback right now. Okay. So,
I like the small talk. That was good.
That was 10 out of 10 small talk.
Amazing. I like how you broke the ice.
One more thing I would do. Um instead of
like asking this this generic question,
I would go straight into the pain. Okay?
For example, you want to do your small
talk. You want to say, "Hey, okay. I
appreciate you taking the time today. uh
before we dive into okay for example
let's say uh you've never worked with a
fintech company before okay let's say
you never did that you can say okay uh
appreciate you taking the time today um
I've been studying the fintech space
intensely and noticed most companies
struggle with the same acquisition
bottlenecks I'm curious what what's been
your biggest challenge with customer
acquisition so far
more detailed, right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, I've been studying. That's a
good way to bypass. Have you ever like,
have you ever worked with the fintech?
You know, because they're going to be
like, okay, I'll pull up the case
studies. Well, you don't have the case studies.
studies.
>> Ding, ding. So, you want to say, I've
been studying the fintech space
intensely and noticed more most
companies struggle with the same
acquisition bottleneck. So, what does
that mean? Right? Uh so it shows that
you've done homework without claiming
experience. Okay, that's one. And this
is another thing that you guys can use.
It's called the it's like a power
technique. It's called uh I don't like I
don't remember this like the book that I
like where I read where I read this. Uh
it's called assumed uh commonality. All
right. So it's kind of like you're
unconsciously suggesting that their
problems are likely similar to others in
their space which usually is right.
Make sure you guys are uh muting yourself.
yourself.
>> Let me see.
>> So, noticed a bottleneck in uh pip
pipeline or
>> uh No, you want to say Yeah, you want to
say I noticed that most companies
struggle with the same acquisition
bottlenecks. I'm curious what's been
your biggest challenge with customer
acquisition so far. Okay, do you guys
want to know what is assumed
commonality? It's a really good
technique you can use.
it's a good mental model to go for
especially in sales calls and it also
So it's kind of like selling ice cream
you know. Okay, let me think of an
analogy. If you sell ice cream, you
probably worry about let's say like you
probably worry about equipment
breakdown. For example, if you run a
gym, right, um you likely stress about,
for example, January signups and March
dropouts, if you're fintech, you almost
certainly dealing with the I the problem
of client acquisition, right? So, when
you say, I noticed that most most
fintech companies struggle with the same
acquisition bottleneck, you're assuming,
you know, you're assuming commonality.
I'm telling them your problems aren't
unique without directly saying it. Does
that make sense?
So, it's kind of like like a like a hack
to use that makes the prospect feel
understood without needing specific
specific experience with them. Okay. All
right, guys. So, you guys can continue.
>> Okay. Cool. So,
I appreciate you hopping on the call
today. Before we dive in, I've been
studying in the fintech space and
noticed uh a lot of fintech companies
struggle with um you know acquisition
bottlenecks and curious uh if you guys
were in a similar position.
>> Yeah, you're right. Like fintech like
the financial space in itself is like a
whole bubble and it's always a struggle
because these are mostly relationshipdriven
relationshipdriven
u industries and it's hard to get in. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> So, so how are you guys getting in those
relationships right now?
>> So, we have our agents um we have like
five to six sales agent that have these
warm connections with these private
equity firms and they just uh tell us
that hey let's hop on a 30 60 minute
call and figure out the solutions that
we have would make sense to them and
yeah I'm just looking for more agents now.
now.
Okay, gotcha. So, how much how much
money does it take to get a single agent
on your team?
>> So, we pay them $10.99. Uh, it's pretty
straightforward and they usually give
four to five introductions a month, but
these are like pretty warm introductions.
introductions.
>> Okay, that's that's decent. It sounds
like um you know you guys are spending a
lot of money upfront for a whole bunch
of people to manually source contacts
and I hear that you know from my
research a lot of other fintexs are
doing the same thing and uh I feel like
there's a lot of money being left on the
table here by by doing these you know
Is that uh are you guys happy with this
process or are you guys looking for a
more consistent
>> M? So it's working for now but obviously
now we are in a growing stage. So we are
just hiring in more agents. We have
interestingly a call with my agent right
after this call that we'll probably hire.
hire.
>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay cool. So before
before I move on, I kind of want to ask
like what are the types of decision
makers that these um SDRs or you know
your guys' agents are reaching out to.
>> So it's hard to get with the managing
partners of private equities because of
how big these firms are and how busy
they are. But usually the head of sales
and a head of partnerships um are the
ones that we talk with.
>> Okay, cool. And then what do they kind
of do to get into the door? Are they
doing like are they just trying to find
the contact then reach out? Uh are they
doing like deep research on the company
to try to figure out how they can
provide unique value or uh like kind of
what's what's going on?
>> So most of the target audience is
American. So for example the the third
agent that I have lives in Ohio and he
has contacts with the private equity
that he has built over his years and he
just simply connects us with those
private equities and to further increase
those networks they just go B2B or sorry
doortodo wherein they just reach out to
these private equity firms that hey uh
are you open on discussing automation solutions?
solutions?
>> Gotcha. So you guys are targeting
private equity.
>> Yeah, that's the main focus.
>> Okay. And then like so your guys' uh you
know fintech, how do you guys help
private equity like what's your main
value proposition that gets their attention?
attention?
>> Yeah. So uh we are an AI automation
company, right? So with the private
equities we see that there are a lot of
workflow and they get a lot of deals
that needs to be systemized. So we
provide automated solutions for them
that decreases their workload and employees.
employees.
>> Gotcha. Okay. So then the main value
prop sounds like you're reducing a lot
of the workload
uh and you guys are speeding up the the
sales cycle.
>> Not not the sales cycle like directly
but yeah indirectly you could say.
>> Okay cool. Cool. So then how much is
that worth for a private equity firm
usually in your guys tip like uh
previous deals
>> like work as in how
>> like how much how much are they uh
getting in value versus how much are you
guys actually charging them?
>> Okay, that's a good question. So they
usually save in 12 hours weekly and
that's about two interns that they hire
and uh we charge them like the customer
lifetime value is can be anywhere around
>> So it's it's only 50 to 100k for you guys.
guys. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Gotcha. So then
um how many deals are you guys getting
on the plate right now? You said you had
like five or six agents
um and then they're booking like three
to five meetings or something or
>> Yeah. So we have six clients at the moment.
moment. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
Um so so how how many meetings does it
usually take to get a single client?
>> Well, it depends on these meetings. Um
because sometimes the private equity
think that they need us but when we talk
it turns out that they don't even have
that workload that we can automate for them.
them. >> So
>> So
>> those are the calls that are not the one
that fruit us. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So would you say you even have enough
meetings that you can identify your
guys' conversion rate?
Uh as I said it depends on agent to
agent because like our top agent he has
brought us three meetings and we got one
client but for some it it can take up to
10 meetings to close one.
>> Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So, it sounds like
what you have going has worked in the past,
past,
but from the data you're able to provide
me, it sounds like you guys are really
lacking on the the pipeline, which is
preventing you guys from having real
insights on how to even scale this up.
So, uh, just from the way that you're
talking about this, having a consistent
pipeline of leads would not only like
10x your guys' business, but also
provide you your you and your other uh,
you know, higher up owners and decision
makers with a lot of valuable insights
to be able to optimize and focus on
>> Yeah. Yeah. U, like as I said, we are
trying to grow. So we are finding
different ways of what it's going to
take for us to reach the next level.
>> Okay, cool. So before we um go further,
I kind of want to hear just like where's
the vision of where you guys want to
take the company?
>> So we currently at 250k a month in
revenue and our goal is to by next year
at least double it.
>> That's that's good. So you guys are you
guys are doing 250k a month with systems
that are really not that scalable
and you said what was the the vision?
>> Uh at least double in a year.
>> Double in a year. Okay. So then your
vision is actually kind of small like
you guys are just trying to double in a
year and uh you guys are you know you're
looking at just trying to expand your
team to double the size. But, you know,
I I want to I don't want to like, you
know, on what you guys are doing
right now. Clearly, it's working. You
guys are making a lot of money, but it
sounds like what you're doing is pretty
stressful. So, uh you know, if you guys
were able to have a consistent pipeline,
uh without doubling your guys' team and management,
management,
um you know, what would that how would
that make you guys feel?
uh like if I don't have to manage more
people because I'm the head of the sales
myself, right? So I have manage all
these agents that would be good but at
the same time I assume you guys are not
working for free right so uh it could be
good it couldn't be I don't know
>> for sure yeah completely so that's
actually one I wanted to uh talk about
is like you know before we go for
further like you know being able to
get that uh pipeline filled increases
your guys' is revenue like 10x
um pretty much overnight if you have
that consistent pipeline cuz then you
guys have consistent meetings flowing
in. Those turn into meaningful
conversations that continue going on.
You said you have like 10 or maybe even
20 meetings before you really close one
of these 50 to 100k deals. Um, so being
able to have a pipeline really reduces
your guys's um, stress that one of these
deals lands, allowing you guys to
execute at a higher level on these
meetings with more abundance, less
scarcity. So your conversion rate would
go up um, as well as the amount of deals
you're closing is going up just by
virtue of doubling your pipeline. Um and
then not only increasing the conversion
rate, right? So, um just seeing that
vision right there, like
I think you can you see the value.
>> Um okay. Okay. I need to stop here.
Never say can you see the value. Always
assume that the value is there.
>> Okay. Because this shows that you're not
confident in your solution. Okay. Plus,
I like how the conversation went. flew
naturally, 10 out of 10, conversational
tone, everything was good. Um, one thing
that I would add is I would like when he
mentioned the hiring because you said
you like he he said he wants to hire
more sales reps, right?
>> Yeah. So, yeah, Max is a beast. Of
course, Max is a beast, right?
>> Yeah. Okay. So when he said about when
he spoke about hiring, you want to go
straight to it. That's literally the
gap. Okay? So I don't want to talk about
conversion rate because their conversion
rate is already good. So here's how I
would respond. I would say if they say,
"Okay, sales reps, you want to say,
okay, well hiring and training reps is a
massive resource drain. We all know
this, right? Don't you guys think?" So I
hear that. So companies usually spend 6
to9 months just to get a rep profitable
and many never even make it that far. So
I would want to even ask them after I
would say what specific aspects of
hiring or training have been the most
challenging for you. So now I'm going to
get them to like talk about the pain themselves.
themselves.
They know that it's painful to hire
sales reps and it's you like it costs a
lot of time and money to ramp a rep.
It's called ramping up a sales rep,
okay? Which means training them. So,
it's very challenging. So, you It's kind
of like getting them to talk about the
pain for you. By the way, I like how you
mirror his language. It sounds like, you
know, this is pure like textbook
psychology. It's textbook never split
the difference from Chris Voss. It's
called mirroring where you say what the
prospect said to them. Okay? And then
once you ask the what specific aspects
of training of hiring and training have
been difficult for you, you want to
listen listen carefully because they
they might find like good people. They
might like they may say okay we find
good people but long ramp times or
inconsistent results are always going to
be the the bottleneck. And then once
they talk about this you might you guys
might be might be thinking okay what do
we say after this? Well, and how is this
hiring challenge directly impacting the
growth target right now? Because he
spoke about getting to like doubling the
250k in a year, right? So, you want to
connect here's the main idea. You want
to connect their operational problem
which is what hiring to business
outcomes. So, the psychology here is
framing. You're helping them see their
hiring problem not as an HR issue but as
a growth bottleneck. Does that make sense?
sense?
>> Gotcha. So when he's sharing his current
strategy is to do it through hiring.
>> Exactly. Exactly. >> Whatever.
>> Whatever.
>> Yeah. recording in progress
>> and he's saying this is his goal. Then
we want to pick at that process at that
strategy which they think is going to double
double
>> and point it out that this is actually
the reason that >> yes
>> yes
>> you're not. That's like the traditional
growth lever that any indust like any
company in any industry has to go
through which is hiring more salespeople
because they think it's volume so it's
spray and prey right and then once you
do that okay once you show them that
it's not an HR issue but it's a growth
bottleneck okay
>> you want to pivot to your solution
quickly okay because we found the pain
boom we go straight into it we find it
and then we attack it so what we found
that companies spending tons of money
and resources hiring and training reps
are often or usually trying to solve a
lead generation problem with a people solution.
solution.
Ah so now it's the difference.
So our sales systems or our systematic
outbound approach, this is literally
what I say, our systematic outbound
approach can generate qualified intros
without adding headcount. Would it be
valuable to see how other companies have
used our system to bypass the rep hiring
cycle completely?
So here I'm refing. Okay, I'm reframing
it. So I'm saying uh it's kind of like
the psychological principle here is
called reframing. You're shifting their
perspective from I need better sales
reps to I need a better system to reduce
my dependence on sales reps. Does that
make sense? You're not dismissing their
stated problem. You're acknowledging it
while suggesting there's a root cause
they haven't addressed. It's like
telling someone uh with a headache, for
example. Let me think of an analogy.
Yeah. Yeah. It's like telling someone
with a headache that while painkillers
help, fixing the dehydration would solve
the underlying issue behind it. Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I felt like I was trying to
tackle what you just tackled very
smoothly and it was pretty bumpy and
then I sounded like I was just insulting
it. Um,
>> not at all, man. You did great. It was
like a nine out of 10. Yeah, you did
great. Okay, so now we discovered the
pain. We tackled So, first we tackled
setting the agenda, asking the
questions. We discovered the pain. So,
Harpit literally talked about the pain.
It's a hiring challenge right now.
impacting their growth target. Okay. So,
now I want you to introduce the
solution. Show me how you're going to do it
it
and transition into the close.
>> Cool. So, hey Harry. So, you're you're
telling me that you know your vision is
to double the company in the next next
12 months and your guys's current method
and approach to doing that is to hire
more people, right?
>> Yeah, you're right.
>> Okay. And you know when in the past when
you were doing this uh hiring you know
how long does it usually take to to
hire? Is this like nine six to nine
month process or is it super short?
>> Yeah like we hire a person in a month or
so but the training part is where it
takes time. Like interestingly we hire
some agents in Europe and in the first
week they said that they were gone for
vacation. So that was another headache.
I wish I could have like a dream team
but it's hard to point out in the sales
world I guess and yeah you have to go
through how we like to be approached
because most of them have uh ruined our
reputation. So we have to teach them as
to how you're presenting us when you
talk to these people.
>> Gotcha. Okay. So then, you know, it
might take you guys a month to to double
your guys' team, right? And then then of
that doubled team, how many of those
guys actually reach the finish line
where they're trained reps who can
actually provide meetings for you guys?
>> Uh so for example, if we hire eight, at
the end of three or four months, we will
find three to four that would be like to
sign a long-term relation with. >> Okay?
>> Okay?
because at the end we are looking for
people that we can work long term with
and build something sustainable.
>> Okay. So what I'm hearing is that even
if you guys double the team, you'll only
have inc uh you know.5x
the or not.5 but a 50% increase in your
guys's uh potential to grow. Um,
so but also you guys would have lost 3
to four months on training those guys.
So they're only useful to get you guys
scale for you know the other three
quarters of the year. So by using this
strategy you guys are undershooting your
guy your doubling target by a long shot.
And in order to actually double, you'd
have to like quadruple the size of your
team and not just double it.
>> uh that's the thing because of that we have
have
only the goals to at least double it on
the bare minimum because it like it
takes a lot of time finding these
connections because at the start of the
call I said that this is a hard industry
to penetrate and we prefer warm
connections uh that already know them so
it's a smooth transition
Right. Exactly. And I completely agree
with you and that's that's how our
systems different is we're able to, you
know, have this uh curated outbound
quality approach, getting relevant leads
for or relevant uh conversations with our
our
uh clients
without having to scale up and adding
>> Okay. and like what will I get in the
end of the day?
>> At the end of the day, we are able to
get you to your 2x company goal without
getting any of the headcount. So on a
more micro level, that means the same
deliverable that a single agent is able
to deliver except at a much higher scale.
scale.
>> Okay, be specific with that. You want to
>> Okay. So, we're able to deliver 17 times
more than a normal SDR.
>> Okay. Uh in what way? Like 17 more times
more introductions than a normal agent.
>> Yeah. 17x more high quality, relevant,
more warm introductions. So that
actually your existing team of agents
is able to do 17x all of their works. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> So where are these bomb connections from?
from?
>> So we use our private network and
industry data and then we com combine
that with tools that identify the right
person in the right company at the right
moment. So we do all the heavy lifting
of warming up this uh warm warming them
up with context and once they signal
interest we connect you directly. So by
the time you speak it's a mutual
conversation not a cold pitch.
>> Excellent. 10 out of 10.
>> So for now you don't have these warm
introductions like these are cold
approach that you do right.
No, they're not cold approach. These
are, you know, highly relevant, you
know, industry assets that we are, you
know, messaging and we're just gauging
their interest if it's right at this
time. So, we don't you don't have to
waste your valuable resources to figure
out if it's the right time or find these
assets cuz we already have these assets,
right? And at the same time, we're able
to do this in complete ambiguity. Like,
we're we're able to do this without
hurting your guys' reputation
um for for being spammy and stuff like
that because you're only getting
introduced once they're already warmed up.
up.
>> Okay. Excellent work. I like how you
framed it. That was amazing. You can
definitely add some juice to this. Okay.
You can say, so what you said was 10 out
of 10. If you want to make it 11 out of
10, you can say uh you can literally
call out other agencies. You can say see
other agencies can tell you prepackaged
warm intros.
And if you guys don't know, it actually
exists. There's agencies that do this,
okay? Especially those veterans, they
have like connections. All right? So you
want to say uh like most agencies won't
tell you this but they can sell you
prepackaged warm intros and they get
burned through quick and often come with
hidden baggage. So the the people
willing to take those meetings have
usually already been shopped around.
Okay. Instead, what we do is we build
you a custom outbound engine that
continuously generates fresh
conversations with decision makers who
match your specific criteria.
The first meetings or introductions
typically start hitting calendars within
3 to four weeks.
Would it be valuable to see some actual
examples of how we've turned this into
actual conversations for other clients?
Okay, so you want to demonstrate
authority. I like how you frame that. It
was already 10 out of 10, but you don't
want to be pretend to have something you
don't, which builds trust. Okay, it
builds trust immediately. Instead, you
reframe their understanding of what's
valuable, okay, which is ongoing, fresh
conversations versus like a onetime
batch of introductions.
So, it's it really taps into like
unconventional wisdom, okay? Addressing
the gap between what they asked for and
what you offer rather than trying to
blur the lines or change the entire
subject. Most sales people, and this is
coming from me since I trained them,
most sales people would dodge or deflect
this question and it damages credibility
and then makes them lose the sale. Okay.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> So, and by the way, you can also add
something else. When they spoke like
when they speak about the challenge and
they finish, okay, there's like a pause.
There's awkward pause. You want to say,
I appreciate you sharing that. Here's
what we do. This is how we frame the
offer. Well, we built like a systematic
outbound engine that connects fintech
companies, for example, directly with
their ideal clients without relying,
this is a line that I use without
relying on an army of sales reps. I like
to use symbolism, an army of sales reps.
So, our approach combines uh outbound
and AI automation to identify and engage
and also qualify prospects before you
even get on a call with them. So the
difference is we're not just, you know,
sending thousands of generic messages
hoping for responses, you know, and this
is not me batching the legion space and
typical spray and prey agencies. So
we've what we've done is we're creating
like personalized outreach at scale that
feels like it was written specifically
for each recipient. And the result is
you get qualified intros with decision
makers who are already who already
understand your value without the
overhead of hiring, training, and
managing a full sales team, which I
understand it's a headache. One client
was able to redirect three plan sales
hires into product development while
increasing their pipeline by 40%. This
is something that I usually say, okay,
uh would it make sense to like would it
make sense to show you specifically how
this could work for your fintech
offering? Now you speak in like a more
you know uh more like using more
authority these fancy words they like
this especially since you're speaking to
a visionary right now. You said the
vision. I like how you framed that in
the beginning. Okay. So you're speaking
about the vision of the company. So you
already like assumed the sale which is
awesome. Okay. So you want to
acknowledge their pain first. Builds
rapport. Presents a direct alternative
to their current approach. Creates
contrast. And then you want you want to
emphasize yeah the third the third thing
is emphasizing a systematic and engine
language. Okay. This is the language
that I'm speaking. This is the logos
that I'm speaking. It suggests
reliability and skin in the game. Okay.
And then after that you want to add okay
specific acidity and then it's going to
be 40% figure which is creates basically
credibility and then you want to end
with a question that assumes continued
uh conversation which is it's called in
the sales word it's called directional
close okay you don't start with features
or process details you focus entirely on
the outcome getting intros without the
hiring pain most you know most sales
most people you know make the mistake of
explaining how their situation works
before establishing why the prospect
should even care. Okay, so hopefully
that helps. Now you guys can continue
into the close. So now since we already
have like we have like uh we have 20
minutes so you guys can can discuss the
proposal and whether you're going to
close or not.
>> Uh okay. So then kind of skipping that
step we just talked about.
>> Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, it was 10
out of 10.
How does the proposal start off?
>> No, you want to since you spoke about
your solution, well, would it make sense
to show you specifically how this work
would could work for you? Okay. So,
you're asking how to transition to the close.
>> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. How to transition to the close?
Well, since we Okay, we uh so far you
can say okay based on you can use this line
line
>> present the offer and then there's
objection or concern handling and then
>> because I still don't know the place.
>> Yeah, we you can pitch now. You can
pitch now and then if there's any
objections we can handle them. Okay, you
can say you can transition using this
line. So based on what you've shared
about your hiring challenge, again I'm
mirroring the challenge, like I'm
literally like getting them to think
about the pain, feel the pain every damn
freaking second
>> based on Yeah,
>> it's Mavillion. Yeah,
>> I don't care. Based on everything you've
shared, you say, based on everything
you've shared about your hiring
challenges and growth targets, I think
we have a clear path forward. Let me
summarize what I'm hearing. You're
spending a significant resource, you
know, hiring and training sales reps,
but it's creating bottlenecks in your
growth. Okay, this is the reality.
What you need isn't more salespeople.
It's a consistent system delivering
qualified intros and meetings with
fintech decision makers. We could build
that sales system engine for you in
about two weeks with the first meetings
typically landing on calendars by week
three or four. Our clients usually see
10 to 15 qualified intros per month once
we've optimized the campaign. Those are
or these are two ways we typically work
with companies like yours. And then
check this out. You want to present two
packages. Okay. Uh since it's a fintech
startup uh and they making 250K. Well,
thinking about it, I'm just going to
pull like a number out of my my mind.
Our core package starts at 5,384.
5,384.
We build, manage, and optimize your
entire sales system from identifying
targets to landing meetings on your
calendar. All you do is show up and
close. And what I'm going to do is I'm
going to uh offer you again, we have
another enterprise package which is
around 9,564.
It includes everything in the core plus
custom integrations with your tech stack
and dedicated campaign strategists
who've worked specifically in financial
services. We can also include CRM
integrations. So every meeting that gets
added to your calendar also gets added
to your CRM. So your sales reps can just
go ahead and look at the time the
calendar. They can just click a button
and go straight to the call. Which of
these approaches makes sense for your
situation right now?
Am I cooking? >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> bro. I just want to eat some popcorn
right now. Uh, I can't wait to recording.
recording.
>> So, yeah, you want to just be you want
to sound like a master.
>> So, you want to like sound like a
psychology here has to be mastery. Okay.
Sales is mastery, right? I've created a
So, you want to create like a choice
between two yeses.
>> Two yeses rather than a yes or no. Does
that make sense? So rather than a yes or
no decision, you want to create two
yeses. And this is called again another
mental model is called alternative
choice close.
>> Exactly. If you want to buy or buy,
>> it's called alternative choice close. By
offering two options, I've implicitly
removed the do nothing as the default choice.
choice. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> So, I've also used
>> you know in like uh you know middle
school or something there's a a word
problem word math problem and then
there's a whole bunch of extra information.
information.
>> It's elementary wisdom if you really
think about it
>> you know. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So
>> So
also another thing if you notice I've
used like firm numbers and time frames
to create certainty
>> because vague promises create hesitation
but specific expectations create
confidence. So again we can extrapolate
from here unconventional wisdom is to
make someone or the prospect feel like a
natural like the close has to feel like
a natural conclusion rather than a high
pressure moment. So I've summarized
their problem connected it directly to
my solution and presented clear next
steps. The entire close feel like feels
like a helpful guidance, you know? It's
kind of like a magician doing its thing.
Like the entire close is like a helpful
guidance rather than just selling. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Uhhuh.
>> Uhhuh. >> Yeah.
>> So that's uh that's how you transition
into it. So hopefully that was not too
much. Probably it was, but you can use
>> what's your objection, Harper?
uh uh to this I would say the first
option to me the first option makes sense.
sense. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But how can you guarantee 10 meetings in
how can I guarantee 10 meetings in a month?
month?
>> Yeah, because that's the offer like the
first offer you pitched, right?
>> Yeah. So, how we can guarantee you 10
meetings a month is the first day we hop
on a call and we confirm your ICP and
your targeting criteria. So, we're
looking at the role, we're looking at
the industry, the geography, deal size,
use case, all this information which is
going to help us uh target exactly who
you're looking to to get deals and
meetings for, right? And then from
there, we'll use our industry data and
we'll use our tools to be able to scour
the internet, find and make these lists.
And then we use our um our technology
and a little bit of AI to help us cate
the messaging that break through the
through the noise of the rest of the the
um people who are, you know, trying to
spam and market and they keep on um
>> Okay, Max,
>> here's what you want to do.
>> You want to address the elephant in a room,
room,
>> okay? Because they said guarantee. Now,
I don't offer guarantees in any of my
stuff as you guys know. I don't offer
guarantees because uh like sometimes
like the offer like the client's offer
is I don't guarantee that, right?
I'm gu I can show you how many people
are actually uh achieved success. But I
can't guarantee you that. For example,
let me give you an example. Let's say
I'm a gym trainer. I can't guarantee
you're going to eat the food. I can't
guarantee you're going to go to the gym,
right? So, what I say is we don't offer
guarantees. And I'll tell you exactly
why, okay? With an agency, yeah, I don't
do any guarantees with any of my stuff,
obviously, because I can't like everyone
who says guarantee, you know, they're
lying through their teeth. Okay? The
reason why they put money in a CD is
because they guarantee you an outcome
and they know they're making, you know,
a ton of money on the back end.
Okay? So, you want to say, "We don't
offer guarantees." I'll tell you exactly
why. Any agency promising guaranteed
meeting number is playing a dangerous
game. they'll eventually sacrifice
quality to hit quotota. So it's like in
practice it's sending you intros with me
with people who have no business talking
to you. What we do instead is we built a
system designed for predictable results.
For example, our average clients see x
amount of qualified intros monthly after
optimizations. But I won't promise you
like a specific number before understand
your exact target provided. Okay? But
here's what I can guarantee. I can
guarantee complete transparency. You'll
see every metric, response rate, meeting
conversion rate in real time. You'll
know exactly how the system is
performing and where we're making
adjustments. Because the companies that
succeed with us aren't looking for
guarantees. They're looking for partners
who understand that quality
conversations beats quantity every time.
So, one solid meeting with the right
decision maker is worth more than 10
meetings with people who can't buy and
just waste your time. Does that approach
align with how you prefer to work with partners?
partners?
So, that's how you basically bypass the
guarantee. Okay? Because you want to
establish yourself as a trusted expert
who refuses to compromise standards. Do
you do you think Alex Hormuzzi offers
guarantees? No. when he offers a
coaching session. No, he doesn't. Right?
Because it's Alex Huzzi. So, there's no
guarantees here. Okay? The more like
there's a rule. The more you can
control, the more guarantees you can
give. The less you can control, the less
guarantees you can give. So, you want to
like you want to reject the premise of
guarantees. Okay? You're actually
increasing your perceived value when you
remove the guarantees because now you
you don't trigger something called loss
aversion. When I speak about guarantees,
well, your brain envisions envisions
like an image because humans think in
images. We all know this. You envision
an image of the system not working. So,
I don't even want to have that. Okay?
Because when I say guarantee, well, why
are you even saying the word guarantee?
Okay, am I going to fail? This is why
you offer guarantee. It's funny how the
human brain works, right? It's called
loss aversion. Okay? So you want to
increase your perceived value by don't
even not even like talking about
guarantees and rejecting it completely.
Okay. So again since we do this every
single time what is the conventional
wisdom here? Well you want to address
why guarantees are problematic rather
than dancing around it. Okay like I want
I go straight to the problem. Okay I
talk about it you know I don't want to
like dance around like a they ask me
again well what about guarantees? is I
want to like go straight to it, you
know? I don't want to like create this
false promise. I don't want to like I
want to address the elephant in the
room, if that makes sense. So, I don't
want to make I don't want to dance
around it. I don't want to make I don't
want to make empty promises, okay?
Because I know a lot of agencies that I
speak to like agency owners that I speak
to in LinkedIn, etc., like they would
either reluctantly offer like a water
down guarantee or deflect the entire
question. Okay? So, you want to explain
your philosophy. This is our philosophy.
This is our company's philosophy, okay?
And you're establishing that you operate
at a higher level than a typical agency.
So, you're subtly qualifying them
unconsciously. Clients who insist on
guarantees are usually the most
problematic and the least profitable in
my experience. You just don't want to
deal with them anyway. Okay?
>> That's how you bypass the guarantee.
>> Any more objections?
Uh so if I say I'll think about it and
and when he discovers that I'll say that
I'm not the only decision maker. I have
another co-founder that I have to talk to.
to.
>> So if if you say I think about it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. But yeah, it's easy. Well, he can
easily like you you guys can see. Well,
I appreciate that. Making decisions
without proper reflection rarely ends
well. While you're thinking, let me ask,
what aspects or what specific aspects do
you need to consider before moving
forward? Is it budget concern, timing,
or something about our approach that
doesn't fully align with what you're
looking for? >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> So, yeah. So, you don't want to overcome
their objection. That's wrong. You want
to treat their hesitation as legitimate
while seeking to understand the real
barrier. You know, it's called
respectful curiosity. I'm just curious.
I'm not desperate to close now, but I'm
invested enough to understand their
Yeah. Uh yeah. And then based on their
answer, if it's a budget, okay, well,
that makes sense. Many clients initially
view this as a cost rather than an
investment, would it be helpful to walk
you through the ROI calculation based on
your average deal size and close rate
systematically? We don't have to like
just ourselves, you know, if
it's Simon. Yeah, it's I completely
understand. Many companies we work with
initially planned to solve the this like
the next quarter. What's interesting,
you know, is that the sooner we start
building the system is very interesting.
The sooner it begins generating
meetings, well, what timing would work
better for your situation?
If it's uncertainty, okay, about
results, typical, classic, you can say,
well, that's the exact reason we don't
lock clients into long contracts. We
typically see initial results within
three or four weeks. Would a shorter
trial period give you the confidence to
evaluate whether this is working for
you? Okay, so you don't want to like you
want to like make it feel like you're
not pushing for immediate commitment,
but you are. Okay. It's like push and
pull, hot and cold.
>> Instead, I'm treating like instead of
like I'm treating
>> uh I'll think about it as you know I'm
treating I'll think about it as the
beginning of a more honest conversation,
you know, rather than an objection to
overcome. So, it's going to build like
tremendous trust with them because
you're not treating them like a
transaction that needs to close today.
And guys remember in high ticket sales
patient you like patience usually closes
more deals than pressure
So I think we tackled budget timing and
also uncertainty about results. So what else?
else?
I I was about to say that this would
change our whole approach because
currently we are talking with agents but
I guess you tackle that with the one
month trial period. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> What if they say I don't believe you?
>> Kind of just stonewall like
>> what if they say like I don't believe you.
you.
>> How how is that? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't understand. Like like if if you
give one of these awesome riffs, you
know that we're like,
>> "Yeah, definitely. I can tell you what
to say.
>> I've had this before. I don't believe
you." Well, you can say again, we use
the same formula again. Acknowledge and
then we systematically just, you know,
just remove all this. We can say, "Well,
I respect the skepticism." In your
position, I'd feel the same way. Again,
I'm respecting it. while the outbound or
the AI automation space is filled with
agencies with wild claims they can't
back up. So in trying to instead of
trying to convince you with words, let
me show you something concrete. Can I
share my screen for 2 minutes to walk
you through an actual campaign data from
a client in X Y and Z industry. You'll
see real numbers including the rough
patches and how we corrected them. No
cherrypicked stats, just the unfiltered
dashboard. And I would share my screen.
Okay? Or you can say um let me send you
something after this call. I'll put
together like a case study showing the
full journey of a client in a similar
industry. Not to just show the end
results but the like week by week
progression like uh including when
things weren't working and what we
adjusted. You'll see actual message sequ
sequences which is the reason why I
always say document your process guys.
Document your process guys. Document
your process guys. By the way, document
your process guys. You know, so you will
just want to like use another like big
psychology hack which is instead of
defending yourself against their
disbelief and this just snowballs to
anything in life. You never want to
defend yourself. Let's say someone says
bad about you or like they say, "Oh, you
are like a bad person." You don't like
you don't like don't defend yourself,
you know, you don't care about it.
You're acknowledging it as irrational
and just offering evidence rather than
arguments. Okay? Just not worth your
energy. And then you can say, well, um,
so you want to like the first thing you
want to share is scare and the second
thing I believe. Yeah. And then send
them the case study. That's pretty much it.
it.
>> Acknowledge and then kind of dismantle.
>> Exactly. You just want to dismantle. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Embrace skepticism rather than trying to
overcome it.
>> That's like a my mantra. Yeah.
>> Embrace skepticism rather than trying to
overcome it.
>> Okay. Never get defensive because most
people they get defensive when someone
doesn't believe them which only confirms
the p the other person's doubt like
doubts. By treating their disbelief as
completely reasonable and just offering
them like a transparent evidence, you'd
be essentially just demonstrating
confidence in your actual results.
>> Okay. So then after you have that part,
then I notice you're asking a question
to like try to rebuild yourself or like
try try to dive a little bit deeper
maybe into their frame of what they think.
think.
>> Uh I'm not trying to ask them like
justify myself. I said I respect the
skepticism. In your position, I'd feel
the same way. Like the space is filled
with agencies making wild claims they
can't up. And then instead of
trying to convince you with words, I'll
let you just show like I'll just show
you something concrete. Share my screen,
walk you through an actual campaign.
This is the actual camp. You can even
use something. Let me show you the
actual campaign that got us on a call today.
today. >> Boom.
>> Boom.
This exact data research how I found
you, how we got on a call. Everything
was like like it was everything was laid
down. It was a system. It's like this
crazy magician that did this, right? Nice.
Nice.
>> Okay. Then at the very end, you're kind
of just saying
something along the lines of, "Does this
address what you're
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, >> paranormal.
>> paranormal.
>> Yeah. Like sort of. Yeah.
>> Sort of. Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> So, I believe that's pretty much it. We
have five minutes left. Let's do like a couple
couple
>> like a quick questions here.
That was genuinely like
>> Oh yeah, that's a good question, Max. So
yeah, I'll answer the last two
questions. One from Max and one from Nick.
Nick.
>> Okay. Um,
so the two option approach. Yes, of
course, man. Of course. Yeah, it's
universal and also industry agnostic.
Okay. It's industry agnostic. So it
works also like extremely well across
all the high LTV industries you know
including fintech recruitment because
you know the psychology like I said is
universal for example let me give you a
couple example for recruitment it's
actually even more effective let's say
you're targeting recruitment because
recruiters inherently know the value of
qualified intros their entire business
model depends on it the for example
since I I'm speaking about recruitment
the recruitment industry has chronic
fee or famine and cycles. So either like
making consistent lead flow or
incredibly low results, you know,
and they really like heavily rely on
LinkedIn outreach. I mean, I was an
Upwork freelancer and I used to sell
cold email systems to recruiters, right?
Like like recruiters would come to
Upwork and they would say, "Hey, I need
this, you know, but usually like the pay
is like very low, like $200, which was
annoying." So I was like, "You know what?
what?
I'm not doing this,
you know. So, for example, like
recruitment, they have very clear
economics. They know exactly what a
placement is worth, like straight to it,
you know. So, making ROI calculations
are is going to be very straightforward,
So like I mean like their LTV might be
lower per client than fintech but their
buying cycle is typically faster and
they're more willing to take action when
they are presented with like a clear
path to more conversations. But uh the
fundamental here like the fundamental
truth here is like any business that
lives or dies by conversations which is
essentially any B2B business and planet
earth and the entire cosmos they will
respond to two option close because both
options solve their core problem. The
alternative approach works the second
one the the most expensive one because
it shifts the question from should I buy
to how should I buy you know and that
psychological shift is is just industry
agnostic. So I hope I hope hope this
Uh next question which is going to be
the last one. 5K per month and then
first month will get one to two
meetings. Yes. Uh s if you don't offer
guarantees. So are they ba buying based
nonrust? Um
yeah exactly they're buying based on
trust. Yeah. No guarantees. That's the
core like that's the core value of high
value sales. Look, before we end this
up, guarantees are for commodity
products where there's little differentiation.
differentiation.
When McDonald's guarantees your order in
3 minutes, they're selling a
predictable, low value transaction. But
when a surgeon operates on you, they
don't guarantee outcomes. You choose
them based on expertise, track record
and trust, you know. So there's also
something called transparency. We show
them the full dashboard of every metric,
not just the highlights. Okay. So they
see what's working and what isn't in
real time. Okay. Another thing is case
studies. You walk them through the
actual journey of similar clients,
including the bumps and adjustments, not
just the end results. Okay. So another
thing you can also like demonstrate
which is um um skin in the game which we
structure deals where our incentives
align with theirs. Okay, we don't get
paid for activity, we get paid for
results. And there's also something
called process mastery. Well, we
demonstrate deep expertise in our
methodology that makes success
predictable even if not guaranteed.
Okay? And by the way, the irony is that
companies obsessed with guarantees
usually get worse results. They choose
partners who are willing to make
promises they can't keep rather than
partners that understand the complexity
of the work. So the best clients are the
ones that worth having, they don't buy
guarantees. They buy on trust,
expertise, and alignment. They
understand that meaningful results can
be guaranteed, but they can be achieved
through partnerships with the right
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