This content is a podcast interview discussing the experiences of an English language teacher who lived in Italy for many years, focusing on cultural differences, the challenges of teaching, and the passion for football.
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Just after me and another English guy
decided like, "Oh, let's go for a swim."
Like immediately after eating, I know
where this is going.
>> The Italians were like, "No, no, no.
What's wrong with you?"
>> Oh, they're like calling it out.
>> You need to wait at least 2 or 3 hours. Like,
Like,
>> yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh my god. Like, did you get this as well?
well?
>> All the time. All the time.
>> Well, even now because um so I was in
Italy a couple of weeks ago cuz my wife
is Italian. We we go obviously all
summer spend time with their family with
her family and yeah it like have
something to eat and then it will be
like no one in the sea and then I'll be
like but I'm hot I've done this before
and everyone will be like don't do it
don't do it you've got kids like don't
leave don't leave them without a father
I've done this before I'm going in and
then uh I must admit sometimes like cuz
everyone's like looking at you I start
thinking oh my god am I actually going
Hello everybody and welcome back. Good
morning, good afternoon, good evening or
good night depending on where you are in
the world right now. I'm back in
Brussels and surprisingly sunny
Brussels. For how long, I'm not sure
because the weather has been all over
the place this week. But I'm hoping to
be able to get out, go for a stroll, get
my sunnies on, and uh yeah, listen to a
podcast. But anyway, enough about me. Of
course, we have another fantastic guest
on this week, and um he's there kind of
nodding along, sitting back, and ready
to get started. So, Martin, welcome.
>> Thank you, Louis. Thank you for that
intro. It is always a bit awkward that
bit where the other person's talking. I
just kind of nod and kind of think, "Oh,
Gwen's going to mention me." Uh, but
yeah, we've we've got past that now. So,
happy to hear it and happy to be here.
>> Onwards and upwards from here. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> So, I'm sure most people watching or
listening to this will already have seen
you and know a little bit about you, but
let's get straight into the
introduction. Who are you? What do you
do? Where are you from? and so on and so forth.
forth.
>> Yeah. You know what? So, I've done so
many of these podcasts over the years,
like on someone's podcast, and obviously
the first thing they do is ask you for
that introduction, and I always think,
why don't I prepare something? Because
when it comes to it, you're always like,
"Oh god, what am I going to say?" You
know, like you do something at work and
it's like the thing of like stand up and
introduce yourself. It's
>> so I should really plan this. I've done
this. I just make the same mistake every
single time. Um, so you always feel like
you have to start with your name, don't
you? So, my name is Martin. Um,
>> y start.
>> Yeah, I teach English as a foreign
language. I've been doing that for a
long time. I did the usual thing of,
well, I I moved abroad and then you kind
of think, right, I need to get a job and
then you end up teaching English. Um,
and so I lived in Italy for a long time.
I went there with a suitcase, one
suitcase in 2010. Came back in 2022
with a lorry, a wife, and a child. Um,
since added another child to that. Um,
>> great success.
>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um,
Um,
and yeah, so I have a podcast as well
called Rock and Roll English. I've been
in the online game quite a while now. I
think I'm one of like the OGs now, like
you know, original gangsters. cuz I
think it's only Loops English podcast
maybe who's been going along. So I've
been doing it since 2017
which to me doesn't feel like that long
ago but from what I understand in the
online space it is quite a long time.
>> It sounds like you were ahead of the
curve and this is now what seven eight
years ago. So congrats on the consistency.
consistency.
>> Yeah well I I was a bit more consistent
as you kind of yeah have kids and stuff
the consistency does kind of like go
down a bit. Um, but yes, so I've been
doing the podcast for a while now. Um,
and is that enough of an intro?
>> That's plenty. I can ask you lots of
follow-up questions. So,
>> first, you kind of fell into the same
situation that I think a lot of us fall
into in wanting to go abroad, thinking
like, oh, I'm going to travel the world,
but wait, I don't have any money. How
can I do that? So, then the backup plan
is often, I know, I'll teach English.
>> Absolutely. And uh I also did the same
thing when I moved to Seville. It was
like, well, I'll look for a job, but you
know, the easiest job to find is
probably teaching English. So in your
first weeks or months of teaching
English, what was it like? Did you get
any like impostor syndrome or anything?
>> Oh, do you? So when I started so I then
I since have done lots of different
qualifications and properly studied but
when I started I got a job in a school
in Rome teaching the Kalen method. Now I
don't know if you're familiar with that
>> rings a bell but I'm not sure exactly.
So it's a it's a weird kind of method of
like so basically I read a question and
say for example do you like sausages and
then I have to basically elicit the
answer from you and I say like yes I
like and you repeat like yes I like
sausages so it's like this parrot method
basically the student is a parrot and you're
you're
>> so I wouldn't even really call that
properly teach him. However, when
imposter syndrome, if anyone ever asked
me like a grammar question or anything,
my most embarrassing moment was
obviously I'm from Essex and when I
first moved abroad, I couldn't say the
th sound properly because I had a very
thick accent. I think it has kind of
gone a bit more neutral in recent years.
So, instead of the word mother, for
example, with like a mother, I would say mother.
mother.
And one of the words because it was
quite heavy on pronunciation this thing
was that word and I was saying mother
>> and this Italian person was saying
mother and I was going yeah uh mother
and then I remember mother and then he
went mother
and uh as as a joke but yeah so I was
there and I walked out of that lesson
thinking there's going to be a student
out walking around saying my mother and
I was like, "What am I doing?" It was it
was horrific.
>> But I mean, all accents are equal in
terms of being like valid. Of course,
you can speak like a Scott, you can
speak like a Welshman, you can speak
like you're from Essex. And I mean, I
think that's one of the beautiful things
about the United Kingdom that whenever
you teach students for a while,
sometimes they'll pick up your accent
and it's like, "Yes, come on."
>> Yeah. But also true, but I don't know
just that that one particular thing. So
So for example, when you teach students,
I'd imagine if you say the word bath,
how would you teach them how to say that?
that? >> Bath.
>> Bath. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> I'm going to have a bath.
>> Yeah. So that for me like that I
wouldn't think, oh my god, that sounds
horrible. Because that that's just like
you say the way people from the north
will say that word. Um
but the mother I I don't know. That was
that was a low point in my life.
I mean I did have a similar experience
in my first job because there were
certain classes which were focused on
identifying like minimal pairs and
similar sounds and all of the content
that was pre-prepared and we just had to
like deliver it
>> and they'd always make us say for
example sun
uh country and all of these like h
sounds rather than the
>> that we pronounce more in the orphan in
particular in Yorkshire like oh it's
proper sunny like sunny
>> whereas they would tell us to say it's
really sunny
>> like in a car I'm like no this is wrong
but I kind of had to
>> do it and change my accent and
neutralize it at the same time. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So I also have exactly this a
similar thing with minimal pairs and it
was three like I am as free as a bird
and three the number three and I could
not distinguish them at all and I was
saying to everyone okay free and free
and they were like that's just saying
the same thing and I was just like oh
god how am I going to get out of this
lesson alive? Um, yeah, some some bad
days at the start, but luckily, well, I
hope to think that I have become a much
better teacher since those days because
yeah, I had like no training there. It
was just literally thrown in the lion's
den and um yeah, but that was a long
time ago now. Luckily,
>> it was sink or swim and you swam by the
looks of it. And
>> I was sinking for a long time. Um,
just about survived. I think I was
unconscious for a while but then got
resuscitated when they picked me up on
the beach.
>> Exactly. You made it. And then um given
that you mentioned that you started your
podcast in 2017,
>> I remember that I had already started
listening to podcasts back then, but I
never crossed my mind to make my own one
until many many years later. Um, but
does that mean you're a kind of
techsavvy person that these ideas come
naturally or even business savvy?
>> I would say definitely not to both of
those questions and e even now kind of
like tech skills.
Well, when I see other people like say
my wife who doesn't terrible with
technology, I it does make me feel a bit
better, but I wouldn't say I'm techsavvy
at all. I keep things really really
simple. Um, and same as business, I just
kind of make things up as I go along.
But the reason I started a podcast there
was there's a few reasons. I think one
of the main inspirations
was um Rick Jacece. Now he
>> I I think I I might be wrong in saying
this, but I think he was like he made
the first podcast like he basically he
invented podcasts in the UK. He was like
the first well certainly the first name
to start a podcast and it was basically
him uh some other people Steven Merchant
and Cole Pilkington just talking rubbish
and then I kind of thought I could just
talk rubbish as well. Um and then I
noticed that Luke's English podcast
existed and he just talks a lot of
rubbish. Uh, and I don't mean that
that's not in a sort of like offensive
way. Just like has a chat and
>> rambles as I think he says. Yeah. And
then I thought, you know, I think I
think I could do that. And I was
actually trying to get some decent
listening material for my students. So I
thought, you know what, I'm just going
to make some of these. And I made the
first kind of like 10 episodes of my
podcast. I kind of just made for my
students and I just saved them as audio
files and used to send them by email to
my students.
And then I thought, right, okay, I'll
try and get a bit more serious here. And
then it started.
>> Per fact. I mean, that actually does
remind me that um in I don't know, 2018,
2019, I did send like audio files to
students uh telling them it was a
podcast, but it was never listed as a
podcast. And if only I'd have started
back then.
>> If only. But hey. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
And um given that you had this online
presence, does that mean that you
started teaching online classes before
the pandemic and before all of the
lockdown? Uh yes. Um however, I was
still working at a school in Italy. Um
so it was kind of like a side project,
but that it was kind of during the p
pandemic where I thought, well, okay,
I'm going to do this full-time now, I
think. Um but yeah, I was still running
online classes before that. I was quite
familiar with Zoom and breakout rooms uh
before the pandemic. Yeah.
>> Good times. Good times.
>> Yeah, indeed.
>> But um anyway, let's talk about the name
Rock and Roll English. Is that because
you're into rock and roll?
>> Again, a question I get a lot when I do
these things. Sorry. Um now um yeah
again few kind of things now again you
would think that you would think that
I'm into rock and roll and you know like
null Gallagher got a like Union Jack um
guitar but that is not the case really.
I have a friend who is a dentist and we
were out one night and we were talking
and someone said, "Oh, aren't you a
dentist?" And he said, "No, I'm a rock
and roll dentist." And I thought, "That
sounds so cool." And I was looking for a
name of my podcasts and you you often
get like um English with
Rob, English with Le.
>> Uh and I thought I maybe something a bit
more. So I just thought how about rock
and roll English and then basically went
with that. So, um, yeah. However, I like
to say now that on the podcast we do
talk about taboo subjects. So, it's kind
of the rock and roll spirit of like say
what you want, do what you want, be what
you want. That's why it's called rock
and roll English. That that I suppose
would be a more like philosophical
answer. But the reality is a friend said
she's a rock and roll dentist and I
thought that sounded cool. So, >> mate.
>> mate. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
Exactly.
>> Awesome. Cool. Now, let's talk a little
bit more about Italy and about Sicily in
particular because before we started
recording, we were, you know, having a
bit of a chat, getting to know each
other, talking about things that we'll
later go on to talk about in a bit more
depth. But, um, I mentioned in passing
that I went to, uh, Palemo, uh, where I
did my Arasmus. Had a great time. It was
amazing. Didn't really improve my
Italian that much. Didn't really make
that many Italian friends.
But hey, it is what it is. But I was
unaware that you actually lived in
Palmo. I just knew that you used to live
in Italy. So yes. Um, why did you first
move to Palemo or did you first move to
Palemo? Um, what's Sicily story?
>> Yeah. Again, I haven't really got any
simple answers for you, have I? Because
it's not really a simple answer again.
So, um, where to start with this one? I
was working in investment banking in
London years and years ago and then I
thought this is not for me at all and so
I thought you know what I would like to
go and live in Italy a bit because my
grandparents were Italian but I didn't
as a child didn't speak any Italian um
and I always thought you know I'd like
to learn some Italian and I ended up
getting a job in a hostel in Palmo
>> and so I'd gone from working in an
investment bank on the left on Friday to
working in a hostel on the Monday. So it
was your
>> mom and dad must have been buzzing.
>> Oh yeah, they were they were over the
moon. So it was a bit of a career
change. So I I spent a little bit of
time in Pedmont
and then after a few months I moved to Rome.
Rome. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And then when I was in Rome then after a
while I got a job for an Italian law
company. Um and they had an office in
Pedmont and said would you like to live
here? And because I already knew the
city, I thought, well, why not? Um, so I
did that. Um, because I was like
teaching English where I was doing
things with the lawyers and like
drafting emails and things like this. So
then I moved back to Pedmont for that
and then I got bored of that job. Got
another English teaching job.
>> So that's I think I answered your
question there, didn't I? Of why
Pedmont? Yeah, I think that was the
question, wasn't it? You know, you start
talking sometimes, don't you? And then
you're just talking rubbish for so long
you kind of think what was the question
again. No,
>> this is what I tell people. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah. For exams actually. But anyway,
yeah. So that's why
>> perfect. I mean a lot of the time
whenever I'm interviewing people
thinking of questions at the same time
I'm like kind of like okay got to listen
to pay attention but I've also got to
start thinking of my next question. So
then I'm like okay uh what's going on
isn't it? Yeah >> exactly.
>> exactly.
But with Talen, I remember that the city
is beautiful.
And of course, you've got a huge like
mountain just around it. I can't
remember the name.
>> Montego Montelino. Then you've got the port.
port.
>> The beaches in the city center don't
really exist, but you've got Mondello. >> Montlo,
>> Montlo,
>> which is just near the Palemo Football
Club Stadium
>> and kind of
>> kind of Yeah. Yeah, you have to go past
that from the city kind of go if you get
the bus you certainly go past the
stadium. Yeah,
>> exactly. But I mean I look back on that
time like really fondly that I had a
really good time obviously. I think I
moved there in February and the first
weekend we went to the beach and
actually went for a swim. So I was like
>> that is
>> I could get used to this. Of course it
wasn't boiling but it was like 20° in
February, quite humid as well. So, I was
like, "Wait, I've just come from England
where it's absolutely freezing and dark
at 3:00 and I've arrived here in Italy
eating pasta, pizza, gelato, and I've
just gone for a swim." So, huh, what's
not to like, right? Absolutely. That is
the exact reason why I always ask myself
what I'm doing back in the UK. Um, I
used to live in a house with a sea view.
Um, and like you said, I used to go, cuz
I lived that outside of the city, I used
to go to the beach 12 months a year. Not
not every day, but every month there
were some days like in January, in
February where, like you said, it's 20°,
you can go, obviously the water is cold,
but you can I was always the crazy
English person obviously like the
>> uh, things like this." Then like, you
know, I would go out with wet hair and
they would be like, "Oh my god, you're
going to get a cold. You're going to
die." I'd be like, "Don't worry about
it. I'm English. I'm all right."
But yeah, so I the weather especially,
the weather and the food, like two
things you mentioned there, things that
I miss a lot.
Um, so we'll get on to why you moved
back to the UK soon, but that just
reminded me that I remember we went to
some kind of like barbecue gathering and
it must have been in May or June and we
had a lot to eat and just after me and
another English guy decided like, "Oh,
let's go for a swim." Like immediately
after eating.
>> Oh, I know where this is going.
>> The Italians were like, "No, no, no.
What's wrong with you?"
>> Oh, they were like calling it out. wait
at least 2 or 3 hours like
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh my god. Like did you get this as well?
well?
>> All the time. All the time. Even now
because um so I was in Italy a couple of
weeks ago cuz my wife is Italian. We we
go obviously all summer spend time with
their family with her family and yeah
like have something to eat and then it
will be like no one in the sea and then
I'll be like but I'm hot. I've done this
before. And everyone be like, "Don't do
it. Don't do it. You've got kids." Like,
"Don't leave. Don't leave them without a
father." I've done this before. I'm
going in. And then uh I must admit
sometimes like cuz everyone's like
looking at you, I start thinking, "Oh my
god, am I actually going to die here?"
Um but luckily I haven't died so far. So
So far so good. Cuz that's the thing I
say. It's not even like you'll get a
stomach ache. It's you will die. It's like
like
so yeah, that's a really common thing.
>> I I didn't get it at the time and I was
I've just like you can see I'm crying a
little bit because I'm remembering that
moment of like a group of Italians with
their their head in their hands like no
don't do it. Don't go into the water.
You've just had a steak. Come on, chill out.
out.
>> Yeah, that is a really common thing.
But anyway, Palenmore. Um, what are the
things that you liked the most about
living in Palemo? Obviously, the food,
but what was it like and what were the
highlights of this long experience, this
big period of your life? You know, I
I've I say this to my wife regularly
that I feel
healthier and stronger in Italy and I
think it's because of the sun. um just
generally just in a better mood because
of that. So again, I used to go out for
example from like May or even before
that kind of like April to October
often before work I used to cycle to the
beach, have a swim, come home, have a shower,
shower,
>> and then go to work.
>> Now imagine that in comparison to waking
up, it's gray, it's cold, and it's
raining and you go to work. like there's
just there's just no comparison. Um, and
I I also felt that I could sleep less in
Italy. In the UK, I feel like I need to
sleep more because I think it's
something to do with the weather. Um,
so I I don't know, I just felt
healthier. And another thing is I was I
feel as if I was outdoors much more
whilst in the UK like even you know in
the summer you say to your friends, what
do you want to do? let's go to a pub and
then you're in like a dark dingy smelly
pub. Um whilst when I was in Italy like
you're always eating outside, drinking
outside and just generally outside. Um
so yeah those are the things and another
thing bit more practical thing here is
the cost of life um because in the UK
certainly near London it's everything is
so expensive whilst in Palmo especially
Italy is much cheaper everything is
cheaper than in the UK however the more
south you go
>> the cheaper you things are and you can't
really get more south than Sicily um so
like going out I remember near work
there was a place and a nice place to
sit outside and I used to get on a
Friday when they used to do it. Um,
pasta with like salmon and it was €3 for
like a whole plate of pasta. Um, now in
the UK that would probably be like 18 quid.
quid.
>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
>> exactly. I mean the cost of living like
obviously around London it's more
expensive than it is up north where I'm
from and the opposite happens of course
in Italy where if you go to Milan it's
going to be quite pricey and maybe in
Rome as well if you go to these like
touristy areas but like you when I was
in Pedmont I'd often go to university
and have a three course meal for I don't
know whether it was €3 or4 €4, but I'd
get there every day and have my starter,
my man, and my dessert and pay them in
like coins, which the fact that I could
pay them in coins was just like, what a
bargain. And then it was so filling. So,
you didn't really need to eat much else
for the rest of the day or before that.
So, it was like I can eat for four quid
a day
>> per week. That's what, like,
>> 20, 30 quid.
>> I know. Um, and because of that, it's
just I don't know. It's just like nice
like in the UK like now if you if you
want to go out and have something to eat
like well so I've got a wife, two
children, it's like nearly £100. Um so
you kind of think well I can't I can't
do this all the time whilst when so like
I said I was in Sicily recently um and
you just feel like you can just go out
not every day but certainly Friday and
Saturday Saturday night going out have
something to eat like standard if you do
that if you do that every Friday and
Saturday in the UK
>> then yeah you're going to be spending a
lot of money
>> correct. So, all right. Um, why did you
move back to the UK then?
>> Yeah. I should go get my wife and she
can tell you cuz it was more her um but
so well so she was of the opinion that
um it's better to raise children in the UK.
UK.
We we still often talk about this because
because
not really sure. And the idea was kind
of like we'll try, we'll go to the UK
cuz otherwise we would live with the doubt
doubt
>> and then if we don't like it, we'll move
back. I kind of get the feeling we don't
like it but we're just too lazy to move
back because it's too much effort. Um,
so no, there are like everywhere there
are pros and cons to everything. So
there are definitely some pros of living
in the UK and I think raising children
in the UK. However, there are also pros
and cons of exactly the same things in
Italy. Um,
>> so yeah, it's a tough one really.
>> We will see. I mean, I think it's nice
and it makes it easier to raise them
bilingually as well because if they've
spent time in both countries, then it
not all of the pressure and
responsibility falls on the parents
because if they were still in Sicily,
then I imagine they'd be speaking
Italian the vast majority of the time
and you'd be like the point of call, the
teacher for your children. So that's
maybe a little bit less pressure in that regard.
regard.
>> Yeah. Luckily the bilingual thing I mean
yeah being a parent I've had obviously
loads of problems. Everything I find
difficult. However luckily the thing
about language which is something before
I had children I honestly was losing
sleep about. I honestly couldn't sleep
at night thinking about it. So I thought
my daughter is at the time we only had a
daughter. I thought she's not going to
speak English because I was mainly
working and I thought she's not going to
see me as much and everyone's going to
be talking Italian. She's not going to
learn English and I honestly couldn't
sleep at night. Um, but luckily they
both speak English and Italian fine. Um,
which is I'm very happy about because
yeah, obvious if they didn't speak
Italian, they wouldn't be able to speak
to my wife's family. If they didn't
speak English, they wouldn't be able to
talk to my family. That would be a
nightmare. Um, however, that has been
zero problems. I could talk about all
the other things which have been given
us problems but luckily that is one
which hasn't and I know people in the UK
we know other Italians and they have had
problems. So it's one of those things as
like a parent you think it almost makes
you feel good when people have problems
because you think oh god at least it's
not me this time because we're having we
have problems with everything else but
sometimes you think oh thank god at
least it's not me. So yeah the language
thing luckily all good.
>> Okay. And is there a trick to that? Like
I've heard that usually like each parent
speaks in their own mother tongue and
that way it's easier.
>> Uh that that's what we do. I don't think we've
we've
we've always stuck to that. One parent,
one language. My wife always speaks
Italian. I always speak English. And
that's worked for us. But I I think
other people have tried the same which
doesn't and maybe hasn't worked. But um
that's what we've done and it's worked
and it flows nicely because if if we're
having dinner for example cuz my wife
understands English, I understand
Italian. So my say one of the children
will say something to my wife in Italian
and I will respond to that in English.
So it's not like it's not weird. Every
everyone always asks well how how do you
manage at dinner like you have to choose
a language like no it just flows
naturally and nicely which is which is
good. It would it would be weird like if
my wife spoke a different language that
I don't speak that would I suppose make
things more complicated because that
moment of like when you're all talking
it would it would be like what did you
just say? Um but luckily that that's not
the case for us.
>> Perfect. Now moving on from family,
let's talk about a topic that
>> brings us together and uh starting with
Palemore football club
>> because I remember when I was there I
went to a stadium two or three times
>> because it was peanuts. It was so cheap and
and
>> I can't remember how much I paid but it
was nothing and I wasn't working and I
didn't complain about the cost of living
or anything. But back then, Palma, I
think they'd just been sanctioned and
they had gone down to Sier or something
like that.
>> Um, first, were you and are you a Palmar fan?
fan?
>> I cuz I was, as I mentioned in our
pre-pod chat, so engulfed in English
football. I never really got that much
into Italian football. So when I lived
in Rome, I went there stud Olympigo a
few times to see like
um but not really. I've never really
been like really into it for example.
Like you kind of keep an eye out for
them. Um but not really to be honest. So
like I follow them on Instagram and I
talk to friends that are like Paladmore
fans but I wouldn't say that I'm really
up to date with what's going on. I know
they're in CB now. Mhm.
>> Um, but no, I'm not because I spend all
of my time listening to podcasts about
English football and watching English
football. So, I don't really have that
extra time to dedicate to uh Italian
football. I must admit I do find Italian
football quite boring as well. um that
like the football itself and the thing
which I think in England I think is what
makes football so good in England is
like the atmosphere in the stadiums and
like for example your team leadeds when
they were down I think in like did they
go to league one as well?
>> Yeah. Yeah. We're in one for two years.
Yeah. still get still getting like high
attendances whilst like if you go to
like the like which would say a in Italy
like the third division essentially you
you got like a man and his dog watching
that and that makes you haven't got that
electric atmosphere often like for
example away fans like it's a common
thing in the UK like even like in even
my local team Chelmstead City when I go
and watch them they're away fans that
come more away fans than go to like a
sele match in Italy sometimes.
>> Um and that like rivalry and that
electric atmosphere is just something I
think which makes English football
fantastic. Even if you're watching it on
TV as well, you just you can feel the
atmosphere. And in fact, Italians often
say like that's what when you it feels
like English fans almost like part of
the game that you're watching whilst
obviously when you we watch a big game
in Italy that's is that might happen but
for the majority of matches that's not
the case. Um so yeah, I'm not a massive
fan of Italian football but yeah I've
always kept an eye on it obviously. I
mean it is true that like in Italy for
example and in some teams in Spain uh
like there aren't as many dieh hard fans
or maybe there are a lot of fans which
will support I don't know the bigger
club instead of the local club. wink wink.
wink.
And then you look at uh the UK and
Germany in particular where you feel
that like football is for the fans and
that's why they've got this model of I
don't know what it's called but
basically fan groups own half of uh each
club. So then they're not allowed to
become I don't know mega rich states or
they're not allowed to go against what
the fans want and there is power from
the fans to keep football being a
popular sport where everybody
>> is allowed to go and they can afford to go.
go.
>> So something's not right there needs to
be fixed. I my theory I don't know if
this is true on this is that um because
I mean let's face it football well
certainly was originally supposed to be
a workingass sport okay I always say
it's for like workingass scum like me
like those I mean that's probably a bit
harsh to describe it like that but it is
kind of sort of like workingass people workingass
workingass
>> uh people sport um and in for example
let's use Pmore as an example okay so
they do have those dieh hard fans that
do go to every match in like the
quarterf as they say like the curve
let's say um however I've never spoken
to these people but the idea of them
going to watch when they were in like
going to watch like uh u away like so
they'd have to pay for flights for hotel
like that just would not they would not
be able to do that whilst in in the UK
obviously like well we've got like
minimum wage and stuff like that. Um and
so people going to football the people
that maybe do go home and away. So when
I used to do that for example I was in
my early 20ies I had like lots of
disposable income because didn't have
wife didn't have children things like
this and you're earning half decent
money so you can just spend it on
football. Um whilst if I compare that to
and maybe an Italian in the same
situation like early 20s probably be a
student um or like unemployed. So it's
just it it's not that easy to do that.
Um-i- which by the way is my theory of
why England fans are always so always
like the worst behaved because those
people that maybe
are not so well educated um use all
their money to go abroad and just get
drunk and smash places up and really do
our country proud.
>> It's not good. Whenever there is a World
Cup or Euros or anything, it's always
really nice to see
>> Irish fans or Scottish fans and Welsh
fans and they're all really really proud
and of course form part of uh the United
Kingdom, not Republic of Ireland, not
but um
>> it's like they're good vibes, friendly,
everybody gets along with them and then
it is so different when you compare it
to the typical English fans where
everybody knows what kind of people I'm
speaking about and they're always
looking for a fight.
>> Obviously, they're really, really drunk.
No problem with that. You can be drunk
and you can be very happy and friendly
as well,
>> but it's just, you know, you want to be
patriotic and proud when it comes to
football, but then this is
>> the dark side of the English national team.
team.
>> Absolutely. Um, yeah, it's it's horrible
when that happens. Um I I've been to
like so I remember so going like
European aways with Manchester United
and being with some people like you get
talking to people and then they start
doing things and you're like okay I'm
just going to try and just slowly get
away from you without without you
noticing cuz I am scared you might also
hit me. Um but yeah, that's that's
that's the not nice thing about
football. Even I don't know if you feel
the same when you tell people you like
football sometimes almost feel a bit
embarrassed because um
>> like it has got that kind of like oh
you're just some kind of like
>> some kind of scum. Yeah, especially I'm
English. I like football. Um I I
specifically remember once when I was in
Pedmont, an English girl actually had um
a boyfriend and you could see like
really sort of welldressed and I just
came like like Adidas top on and
>> jeans and um the so I think like she had
gone to the toilet and that I wasn't
just I wasn't the third wheel. It wasn't
them two plus me. There was a group of
people but I was quite good friends with
this girl. I thought I'll try and make
the effort to like make friends with her
new her new fella, let's say.
>> And um so I was talking and the
conversation was really dry and then I
thought, right, I'm going to have to
just throw this one out there, which I
don't like to do, but I just said like,
do you like football? Cuz if they say
yes to that question, it's like, oh,
thank God. And then you right, we can
just talk all night now. So I said, do
you like football? And he said, no, I
hate football. Um he said I just find it
like lots of people just like I can't
remember the specific words but sort of
said some sort of bad things and then he
said in fact I've never watched a full
football match in my life. What about
I mean there were some weekends where I
might watch like six games in a weekend
but I was like h you know just the odd
one or two I think. Uh
>> I mean I bet you were just like oh no
what are we going to speak about for the
rest of the night
>> because what those times when you do
when you say like do you like football
cuz you might have that thing it's a bit
awkward you don't know what to say to
someone but it's just like do you like
football and they say yes like they are
really into football it's just like bang
and then so they might even be from a
different country and then you can use
your championship manager knowledge um
oh yeah yeah like I remember talking to
someone from Romania once. She said,
"I'm from Klu." I Oh, yeah. Of course.
Yeah. Cluj played them in the Champions
League once. Yeah.
No, it is 100% something that like does
bring people together. I can think here
in Brussels that usually if I'm out
socializing and speaking to people that
I don't know that well or maybe we don't
have that much in common, but if they
like football and I like football as
well and usually we hang out at the
weekend, so then you're like, "Oh, have
you seen the result? what's going on?
Oh, how how are they doing in the table?
And so on.
>> There are no words to describe the
relief when someone says that. Um I
remember another example again quite
similar. Um this when I was living in
Rome and an ex-girlfriend, I was out
with her and her friend and her
boyfriend was from Monteneg Montenegro
and that weekend it was England
Montenegro and I thought brilliant. I
was like England Montenegro this
weekend. And he I hate football, not
interested. And I was like, "God, like
this weekend we're playing your country.
Like, what are the odds? I I thought we
could have a in-depth chat about like
players to watch out for. Uh, it's
horrible. What a night, man. Well, um,
we've only got a few more minutes, but
I'd like to touch on your favorite club,
which you did mention is Manchester
United. Um, that when you were growing
up, it was the glory days, you know, the
class of 92 as well. Um,
obviously I'm a leads fan, so I've been
through a pretty tough time over the
last 20 years as well. So, we can we can
be in that together at least. But, um,
what about the future of Manchester
United? How do you feel about it? Are
you optimistic in any way that you might
be able to bring back the glory days?
It's very difficult to
to certainly the glory days like because
like you said um when I if you make a
comparison with leads they've had a
really tough time because they were
like pushing like when I was like in
school and stuff like Champions League
semi-finals like near the top of the
league. Um, so yeah, if Manchester
United situation is not great, but if I
compare compared to Lee, that must have
been a real real heartache. But um,
yeah, it's difficult. It just looks like
the same mistakes are being made over
and over again. Got a new manager in,
he's got a new system, he gets his
players in, spends loads of money,
doesn't look like it's working. Things
have got to start changing pretty
quickly, otherwise he is going to he
won't be able to survive. And then a new
manager is going to come in and he's got
like specialist players like he's going
to change the formation and he's have to
get rid of these like wing backs and
like extra like number 10s. Um so it it
looks like we're just going round and
round in circles really and especially
at the top of the club when they're like
making decisions like you see every week
of like um people now are not allowed
food. They they like they have to bring
their own food and like they were like
making people redundant that were on
like 25 grand a year and then they said,
"Oh, because we're going to be out of
money." And then they go and spend like
250 million or whatever. It's just kind
of like
>> it doesn't sit well with people.
>> No, it doesn't sit well. But it's also
like if those are the people that are
making like the decisions. I mean these
decisions that I just mentioned are like
quite lowlevel things but if they're
making bigger decisions it's like do you
trust them to make the right decisions?
Um probably not. So I mean football goes
in cycles doesn't it? Um
and yeah you you've got to suffer as
well. It's part it's part of the beauty
of football though isn't it? um the
suffering. It means that you're going to
savor and rejoice and enjoy these
moments more when you do have success. I
know for sure if leads ever do
>> become a really successful club again in
the future because you've been down in
the doldrums and you've been >> absolutely
>> absolutely
>> in League One and the Championship and
through financial troubles as well. Then
if we do ever win a trophy or qualify
for European competitions, people will
absolutely love it. Like even last
season when we won the league, the
championship and got promoted, there was
a huge parade and hundreds of thousands
of people lining the streets all wearing
white and yellow and it's like you can
feel the passion.
>> This is the beauty of football. Yeah.
>> It's pushed to an extreme after you've
suffered a lot. Absolutely. Yeah. No,
this is the absolute beauty of football.
A few years ago, West Ham won a European
trophy for the first time. Like you can
just feel it like and seeing with
because West Ham in that final scored in
like the almost the 90th minute and you
can just see from the reaction of the
fans like and and like like I said, it's
almost that which is so great because
during COVID for example, football was
terrible, wasn't it? Um so that is what
makes football so brilliant. Um like the
fans and that in in English football is
something that I love one of the things
I love the most. Like for example like
fan chants in the UK like oh my god they
are so so good. Um I could spend all day
just watching fan chants on Instagram.
>> But yeah no brilliant. Now, on that
note, we have run out of time. I've got
to go, but you will be seeing us
together again in the future because uh
in a week or so, I'm going to be a
guest, I believe, on Rock and Roll
English. So, I'm looking forward to
that. And uh yeah, if you don't like
football, I apologize for the last 15
minutes, but um
>> I have tried to keep it general and talk
about like the instead of like going
into details about like what Beels Elsa
was like and what you think of him. Um,
so I have tried to keep it like general.
Um, so I hope that we manage to do that.
I reckon there'll be some people who
will have absolutely loved these last 15
minutes. And uh, if you are one of these
people, let us know in the comments and
maybe in the future we can do a football
special or do
>> a Premier League preview at the
beginning of every season or something
like that. The possibilities are endless.
endless.
>> Could talk about this all day. World Cup
next year as well. I'd like to do a
world a pre-World Cup pod. So, we could
definitely do that. Yeah,
>> I'm excited. I can't wait. Well, um,
it's been a pleasure. I look forward to
chatting again soon and uh, thank you
everybody for watching and, uh, lots of
love to everybody.
>> Thank you very much. See you soon. Bye-bye.
Bye-bye. [Music]
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