This content explores a re-examination of the historical accounts surrounding the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, utilizing forensic analysis and historical evidence to challenge the traditional narrative and uncover potential inconsistencies or fabrications.
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I'm not a historian [Music]
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I'm not a detective [Music]
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foreign [Music]
my name is Justin Griffin and I wrote
and directed the documentary who killed
Joseph Smith
we researched every bit of evidence
further than anyone ever had up to that
point we reconstructed the entire crime
scene just so we could run different
scenarios and test our different theories
theories
and we did all of this because we wanted
to know the truth what really happened
to Joseph and Hiram in those two to
now every now and then since the film
came out
I run into somebody who knows what
happened to us after the film
and they asked me
was that all worth it I got a restart an
article about it where she just ripped
it to shreds I almost thought she was 2B
in a way I remember how I described it
but it's it's a load of crap
it's really strong place
but I won't even use the word documentary
documentary
but for being an amateur effort it's
I take any feedback to the film very
seriously I'm asking you to consider my
point of view so of course I'm going to
listen to yours it seemed like a lot of
the initial reaction was very emotional
and that's completely understandable
I mean I know I crossed some very sacred
lines with people but there is one thing
that surprised me and that's the none of
the critics mentioned any of the
evidence I presented in the film
they called me a conspiracy theorist
they said the film was Amateur hour they
accused me of being in a cult group they
said I had a bone to pick with the
church they even tried to make fun of me
for calling myself a Carthage researcher
and that's fine it didn't bother me I
figured when they got that out of their
system now we can finally talk about the
evidence and it never happened they just
ignored it
so I've thought about that reaction for
quite a while and
and
you know it makes sense to me that when
something you hear something that goes
against your beliefs sometimes it's
easier to just ignore it and that's
exactly what had happened to my wife and
I a couple of months earlier when our
local church authorities asked us to
come in and discuss the documentary with them
them
and I did my best to go over the
evidence and you know present what it
was that we were showing in the film
and they just did not want to hear it [Music]
what is your purpose behind that
for truth search for truth and I love
Joseph I love everything about
Carthage about Naboo everything from
yes it changes what the Iowa the
eyewitness accounts so the two
eyewitnesses found in the Joe were John
Taylor and Willard Richards and their
evidence accounts don't match the
evidence so that's what we were tracking
I think very Nance comes to the idea
that it's implicating that
those men were telling the wrong story
for a reason yeah I think I think some
people will come up with that and I
think other people won't but for me yeah
there was a reason why they weren't
accurate but I wasn't there
no one was there so all you can do is
present the evidence and figure out what
it means to you so
so why did Hiram receive according to
the accounts that were there I don't
know to me
to me it doesn't matter
my State president said the exact same
thing that every other church historian
and Scholar has said since the movie was
released the historical accounts are
already proven the physical evidence
does not matter [Music]
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I guess I was just naive enough to think
that people would think this evidence is important
important
you're promoting a film that is putting
doubts into people's hearts questions
questions
I I don't have any problem with questioning
questioning
but but when you were
causing people to doubt
and and possibly be led astray I think
that is dangerous ground
I have to give up the movie
for now yes
and what you're saying is you know
you're so Willard Richards um
John Taylor John Taylor became a prophet
of church you know you're you're
making some awfully stiff claims or or
assumptions that maybe we have no
business of even exploring or making
my wife and I had to make a choice
our leaders didn't feel like it was any
of our business to be exploring the martyrdom
martyrdom
so we had to either choose
to walk away from the movie or to risk
so we we asked for the chance to go home
and pray about that decision
and they said that they would consider
our requests
and then they left the room to
deliberate our case
according to your proposal
we steal and we'll invite you
to consider the things that we invite
as a show
but in the meantime
the process we feel we need to draw your
membership for the church
we really did not want to lose our
membership in the church
the repercussions to our lives were enormous
we live in a small town and the church's
policy was to announce to everyone that
I'm wearing this shirt to try and take
some of the power out of these words in
our world these are tremendously
shameful labels foreign
foreign
we were completely honest with them we
shared what we believe
and what we've experienced we shared our
witness of God and his son Jesus Christ
told them we still believe that Joseph
was a prophet and that the Book of
Mormon is scripture [Music]
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but none of that mattered [Music]
to led us to this
so yeah
I ask myself all the time
was all of this worth it [Music]
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we aren't quitting no way not yet
there are so many other dedicated people
out there right now working every day to
uncover things about our history that
have been hidden
the martyrdom polygamy session
session
all of it
they're driven by their search for the
truth they are well studied they ask the
tough questions and they are not afraid
of the real answers
and they're also getting branded as
apostates but they believe in God in his
son they believe that Joseph is a
prophet and the Book of Mormon is
scripture but they want to know the
I know for my small part in this that
I'm up against an impossible wall
how do I get the church to consider the
physical evidence from Carthage
at this point I realize my chances of
convincing them are pretty slim
but if I can't convince them
then who can [Music]
Firearms are used at many crime scenes
so to analyze the evidence that's left
behind is very important so Matt Steiner
is probably one of the most qualified
and experienced forensic detectives in
the entire country currently he has
millions of views versus trainings and
for his critiques of crime scene
investigations in different popular
movies and television shows I'm a
retired detective with the New York City
Police Department I was a detective for
25 years in the crime scene unit you'll
notice more detail in that I've
investigated over 2 000 crime scenes
most of them being shootings and that's
what Sherlock Holmes is all about it's
all about the devil being in the details
and this is the basic founding principle
of forensic science we're looking for
What's Left Behind yeah this is just
pure television not reality and one of
the fields that they questioned was bite
mark analysis while I was learning
everything I could about forensic
investigations it was Matt's videos that
gave me so many new ideas about how to
approach the evidence at Carthage and
eventually I got the idea to just call
Matt and see if he'd be willing to do a
review of the first part of who killed
Joseph Smith I got a hold of him and he
agreed to do it
hello we're about to watch a documentary
by Justin Griffin who killed Joseph
Smith it is a documentary I have not yet
just getting the beginnings of the story
I do like that the director creator of
this documentary I was trying to think a
very objective a look at the scene and
that's the most important thing for a
crime scene investigators to be
objective notoriously eyewitness
accounts should always be taken with a
grain of salt because you never know
like you know people's biases we also
learned that we have two different
accounts that are recorded 10 years
apart you always want to get that
account right away
your evidence versus what your
eyewitnesses say and do they add them so
there is some error in that equation
especially with the ballistic trajectory
maybe that's not the shot damage to a
substrate or Surface you can measure it
it won't tell you the exact size you
don't have two points so typically for
shooting reconstruction you need two points
points
very powerful a very compelling documentary
after Matt completed his review of the
film I asked him if he'd be willing to
do a full investigation of those two to
three minutes in Carthage and he agreed
now a lot of different critics of the
film have said there is no way that the
Inside Job Theory would stand up to the
criticism of a professional forensic Detective
Detective
so we'll see they might be right at this
point I don't even know what Matt's
going to say it's taking him a couple of
months to go through everything and then
we'll get together and he'll present
what he thinks is the best theory or
want to know one way or another what
actually happened in those two to three
minutes many people who saw the first
film were confused by what I referred to
as the New Evidence so I thought I'd
take a moment to make that a little bit
more clear
the four new pieces of evidence are
number one John Taylor's watch number
two photos of Joseph and Hiram's
skeletal remains number three the laser
pointer through the door panel and
number four Hiram's clothing
first was John Taylor's watch of course
we've always known about the watch but
it wasn't made available for public
examination until
1990. that's when it was first put on
so once this watch
is put on display in 1990 immediately
the church historians and Scholars
started examining it
and eventually proved that it was never shot
foreign
was in 1995 when Shannon Tracy first
published his book which included photos
of Joseph and Hiram's skeletal remains
these photos had never been released to
the public before the photo of Hiram
skull was the single most damaging piece
of evidence against the two eyewitness
accounts of how Hiram died
third in 1996 David Lyon had the idea to
place a laser pointer in The Bullet Hole
in the door panel at Carthage that
showed the second shot was fired at a
five degree downward angle and couldn't
possibly have struck Hiram in the face
if he was standing 10 feet back from the door
door
fourth in 2019 Gary Smith donated Hiram
Smith's clothing to the museum which he
had worn during the martyrdom and that
called into major question the timing of
Hiram's wounds and you can see here
the whole
in the name
that there's no blood around those
wounds and they didn't put the shirt
they don't have that on display but on
the back of it is the whole
supposedly fired from the window and
there's even more evidence that is
surfaced since these four were made public
public
but these are the four that have caused
the biggest disruption to the
long-accepted martyrdom narrative
you you know respond to me and I and I
talked about this case and if there's a
chance for you to review it
and you say yes which is amazing
and so I send you everything I have and
over the last five months you've been
able to go through the evidence and look
at all the different reports and
eyewitness accounts and you know ask me
anything or look at anything you want
and my understanding is is you've come
to a conclusion
I've come up my own theory yes okay
okay um
um
what is it well I don't think you're
what do you mean
well what if the detective proves that
I'd have to
admit I was wrong
do you think the church would take us back
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if they did want us back would you want
I look first at the evidence the
photographs of the evidence I was able
to evaluate that and let that speak to
me uh then I watched her documentary
which was a great kind of overall the
case going into the evidence what
Witnesses were saying current theories
and then at the end you came up with
your own Theory it was impressive that
you know having a group of people that
were not experts in the field that you
all kind of approached the case in the
same systematic methodical order you
guys applied the scientific method too
which which is great and you know it
wasn't just like I think this is what
happened but not back it up let's dive
into the evidence not all of it but some
of those things that I think are key to
understanding the case and first of all
is John Taylor's watch okay
okay believe or don't believe that his
watch was shot no I don't think I'm shy
okay good and just thinking in this case
you have two watches that are shot what
is the odds of that happening up odd
things do happen but again my my point
that you have your eyewitnesses that
know some of this evidence exists and
they're making their stories fit that
evidence so I don't particularly care if
the watch was shot or not I don't even
know if this is the original watch to me
there's a bigger question John Taylor
quaint when it was shot he was falling
out of the window and that shot pushed
him back into the window and onto the
floor in my investigation I was like is
it possible to shoot a watch that
doesn't kill the guy
doesn't have enough power to penetrate
the watch but somehow throws him back
into the room and that's the video I
want to show you you normally fire these
at the time with a hundred to 150 grains
of black powder
but we were worried about throwing that
much in here because we didn't know it
was going to happen so we kept it at 80.
just to be safe so yeah we're way less
plus so many people are like oh they
could just build powder and I'm like
okay so let's account for all of that by
just going to 80 grains and here's
it did budget right
right
but according to the eyewitness accounts
it through them back out of from falling
out of the window back into the room
think of looking at watching Dirty Harry
there's a famous scene in the diner guys
are going flying through the windows as
they're being shot
that's not reality that's basic physics
states that you know you know if there's
enough Force to throw him from the
window yeah into the room then the
person shooting it would have the same
exact opposite Force right Newtonian
physics so this is our 69 caliber musket
this is our 50 caliber rifle
and this one's percussion the biggest
difference between these two is
obviously the size of the ball but they
typically still use the same amount of
powder and this one's rifled and also
because it's a percussion you don't lose
any of the compression in here right
which you do lose in the flintlocks so
this it's a smaller Ball but in ways
it's more accurate and more powerful so
I'm like okay I mean whether it's a
musket or a rifle I mean kinetic energy
it's you know the mass is not as
important as the velocity so if this
bullet is traveling faster and it's
smaller it may have more kinetic energy
than this now you'll see the second shot
from the right [Music]
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this was 80 grains as well [Music]
and then just look at that watch yeah
massive damage well you know
this is how you change people's minds
saying this is what you think
this is what happened do you still think
that right and that's really it I mean
and if they don't if they're stubborn then
then
there's people that you're never going
to convince right they're they're going
to be stuck in their their own mind of
what happened and that they don't want
to listen to reason right so now we're
going to talk about John Taylor's wounds
so according to John Taylor's
description he was shot in a leg with a musk
musk
even if you even if you back that gun up
to whatever the maximum distance from
the doorway to the window so we matched
it here yeah we said you know it's
somewhere between 10 and 15 feet
I mean it ripped chunks of the sure
I was like John Taylor
there's no way you were shot where the
musket because this was only 80 grains
he's not playing the piano after that no
there's no [Music]
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yeah there's no I'm gonna be in bed for
a couple weeks and then I'm better than that
that
this coming out of this would take off
your hand would take off your arm uh it
would you know you're not going to slow
it down enough that it's going to embed
itself you know so yeah to your point
what's more likely that to be in bed
it's gonna be something of a smaller
caliber I agree with you on that all of
these are gonna cause massive damage and
they're going to perforate him they're
not going to penetrate him we both agree
if a 69 caliber was involved he has no
leg he has no knee he has no hand it's
all his hip gone right I mean
this is probably there at the scene this
is being fired probably the one that
goes through the door it may be some
other shots that we don't have any
evidence of or also being shot by this
but you know if we're talking direct
shots direct hits yeah
this is not being stopped by your thigh
bone going at you know over 2 000 feet
per second
so far we both agree that John Taylor's
watch was not shot John Taylor was not
thrown back in the window by a gunshot
and John Taylor's wounds are more
consistent with a small caliber weapon
similar to the pistol Joseph had in the jail
jail
I know that detective Steiner is a top
expert on shot pattern analysis so I'm
very much looking forward to his
insights on the shot through the door
that supposedly struck Hiram
so we're asking the question do you
believe Hiram could have been that wound
could have come through the panel and
hit Hiram whether it was close or far or
whatever is there a scenario where that
shot could have struck him in the side
of the nose
no not not that bullet hole
going back to the theories that are in
place there is a theory saying that
these two are correlated but this is the
entrance and that is the exit right and
that if this is at the door first off I
don't think it happens because we see no
pseudosteplay but let's just say that
some reason there's some barrier there
we don't the door fragments in a way
that they have unbe you know
on it it acts unexpectedly and we don't
have pseudost deadline and then it exits
here but we're still talking a very
awkward angle for him to be at the door
yeah you know where he's perpendicular
to the door and in this way so that the
bullet enters exits and doesn't strike
his chest doesn't strike his shoulder so
I I think that the one shot theory is
great I think it's probably what
happened you know just weighing out what
evidence that we have years later but
it's in reverse and that the damage we
see here and that Barnes cause the
entrance right he's probably associating
with the door which he actually does he
he says in the same exact sentence has
to do with the door but he thinks that
it's pseudo stippling from the wood
wound and around the periphery of this
entrance that he has
you know damage from the wood but
actually I think it is stippling so the
unburned gunpowder that's creating
abrasions around the periphery and that
this is still the exit what I care about
is anything that had the power to make
it through that panel would have caused
far more damage to Hiram's head sure
the three shots that I decided to do was
the musket 69 caliber 80 grains
the rifle 50 caliber at 50 grains and
then for fun I did the pistol 50 caliber
at 25 grains
and here's what happens at a 69 caliber ball
so on this one
we actually caught
the ball
so I don't know what they use for the
I'm sure it's whatever it's probably
similar density the bone is 95
comparative to actual bones shatter point
okay so it didn't knock it completely
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so there's massive damage and there
still is an exit oh wow but it's not
nearly as defined as the as what it made
it through or part of it yeah or part of
it made it through that's right
and the other thing is it cracked the
heck out of the skull there was cracked
all over in it yeah [Music]
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that's the back of this both of their
shoes oh wow I never saw this photo before
before
yeah so there's nothing there's nothing
that's where I'm like okay maybe it
didn't make it all there's there's not
even a crack anywhere and this was just
with 50 grains the back of their both
their skulls are perfect condition
they're perfect
ah did you notice what happened
the thing you're always talking about yeah
yeah
right in the eye yeah that would ruin
your day right there yeah look at all
the wood that's
all over in his face in this gigantic
hole through this and that's really your
strongest evidence of him not being at
is there any way that that wound to
Hiram's head came through whatever was
shot through that panel of the door no
no again the strongest evidence no
matter what bullet size we're looking at
if it's passing through the door it's
bringing parts of that door with it and
we're going to see Associated damage if
he's he's braced up against the door
there was Hiram shot once or twice in
the head I believe it's one shot
again we see no other damage you know we
had the death mask which is telling us
that there's damage to the nose it exits
here you know without hitting the the
nasal cavity right um importantly what
barn says is that he calls this an
entrance that's right we both agree he
was shot once in the head yes we don't
have any other damage to the skull
straight through or even at five degrees
down again this is stuff that you could
look into 10 degrees down you know you
know here to here or here so far where's
the rest of it all we've done so far is
just look at this shot and most people
don't ever test but there's a shot under
the chin and this one does not come
through the door
here's the big thing
I wanted to use the same scroll for both
shutting the nose gently I couldn't use
it on the musket because the first one
was just tore too far so I used a brand
new skull but the other two shots I used
the same scold
and we caught the musket ball look at
that it's not wow a piece of shrapnel or
I mean that would have shown on the
last but not least therapists
25 minutes
isn't that exactly what you're talking
about yep I could see the Creator in
there yeah that's like beveled edging
this is why I think we agree it was one
shot because if it was two shots there
would have been other damage show up in
the skull from the nose and the chin or
one of the there would have been other
Willard Richards and John Taylor both
say the shot through the door panel
struck Hiram on the left side of the nose
nose
Willard Richards also says a second shot
struck hiring below his chin but
detective Steiner and I both agree that
the ball shot through the door panel
could not have struck Hiram and that
Hiram was only shot in the head once
so if these key components of the
eyewitness narratives aren't true then
what really happened in those two to
theorizing okay
that's a big part of what you do correct
yes you come up with a theory
and you present it and people decide and
they build on other things and compare
it and they decide what they think
happened go again saying that all all
previous three theories have parts that
we like that have parts that are are
very astute observations especially for
non-experts uh but all of them are
impossible because the one that involves
being shot through the nose at a door we
don't have any Associated damage so that
X's that out the other one Sam Weston
that these are separate shots no exits
again impossible but for your theory I
st I think is possible
the first three they're not possible
mine is at least possible yeah yours is
possible and don't edit it down just to
I agree with you Justin and everyone
else is full of [ __ ]
I don't I don't think you you've proven
this but I don't think any of the
theories can be proven in court but
I do think that your theory is possible
okay and I think coming up my own theory
is just another possibility and there
could some a third person fourth person
fifth person could come in with another
possible Theory and then I'm going to
rip you on yours if that's all right oh
sure yeah are you okay with that yeah of
course I mean if I if I can I might not
any theory has to be questioned you know
if you're if you're at a crime scene
investigating it actively or doing a
reconstruction later on if you're not
questioning every single thing that you
say you're doing it wrong my theory is
that we have the mob outside the door we
have our four characters inside the room
both pushing on that door back and forth
uh from all accounts we the mob doesn't
know that they're armed inside so maybe
the first thought is we'll just punch
into this room grab him and go hang him
uh and then at some point maybe there's
a conversation who knows but as that
door is being forced open we know that
one shot hits the side of the door and
doesn't damage the door frame so that
means that door is at least partially open
open
maybe that shot strikes Hiram in the
back and that's when he exclaims I'm a
dead man
then releases pressure from the door and
then someone else who's the outside with
a handgun at close range at what an
intermediate range not close range close
range would cause powder Burns but the
intermediate range to say I don't know
that this weapon but say some are
greater than four to six inches away
shoots enters the this side and then
exits to this side uh and then Falls
backwards we see that there's spatter on
the left shoulder of Hiram so that could
be from the exited bullion traveling in
that direction carrying blood with it
then falls on the floor and then all the
other shots come later on could be
postmortem which would be explained why
there isn't you know completely
saturated clothing and blood it would be
harder to clean and maybe just small
some smaller stands right
okay okay so push up against the door
you get shot in the back okay so there's
enough like that people are pushing
it's a shot to the floor that goes
straight through not so inside it hits
it hits the door frame uh again who
knows maybe it's from a smaller caliber
weapon is a less less velocity uh and it
slowed down a bit from going through
halfway through that door which is the
thicker part of the door not the panel
which is a thinner part of the door
absolutely and then strikes them in the
back and then now the pressure of Hyrum
pressing gets them is no longer there
doors open even further and then someone
reaches in from the outside
gets that shot enters here and then
exits out the side of his nose got it
just because someone doesn't have the
same Theory as you right does that mean
that they're wrong it doesn't mean that
you're right it's just both possibilities
possibilities
I think you've done a pretty pretty
great job so far I think you know
stating what restating what I said
before is like looking at the evidence
looking at this the eyewitness accounts
looking at the current theories coming
up with your own I think you could keep
this could keep refining it you know I'm
giving you some more information but
again I told you before I I am an expert
in this but I'm not the be-all end-all
even if you brought in another expert
with similar backgrounds similar
experience in training they may come up
with another theory they may come up
with observations that I did not
I mean you guys have come so far on your
own without training and experience
that I think this has been an
educational process for you and for yes
all our other theorists as well
uh you did things in a very
systematic and methodical order use the
scientific method you looked at what you
had you looked at your evidence you
waited against your witness statements
and then you looked at what current
theories are out there and evaluated
those coming up with your own theory in
the end I think if you could continue to
look at this I've came up with some
suggestions for you for further testing
that you can do some stuff that you
can't do on your own you're gonna need
permission but there's other experts out
there that could look at the same thing
and come up with another theory that's
valid right and then maybe they're going
to see something that I didn't see and
it could be something that's important
for the case foreign
foreign [Music]
I still can't believe that I was sitting
across the table from one of the most
respected detectives in the entire
country talking about the martyrville
I had my doubts about how this was going
to go
I always knew that my theory is possible
but to hear him say that
that was a cool moment but you know
obviously I haven't completely won him
over not yet there's still more work to do
foreign [Music]
so I found a replica of the clothes that
Hiram was wearing during the martyrdom
all of these items are actually from 1837.
1837.
what I'm going to do is
you know try to test the detective's theory
theory
so I've ordered a full ballistic gel torso
torso
and I'm going to dress it in these clothes
clothes
and I'm going to fire at it through a
panel the thickness of the side of the door
door and
and
see if I can get that shot what happens
with that shot after I make that shot
I'm going to take the clothing off of
that ballistic gel
gel and
and
put blood on it and see where that soaks
in and how and then you leave that blood
for a day and then after a day I'll wash
it as vigorously as I possibly can and
see can I get you know every
back or any remnant of blood out of the
clothing to where it looks like it does
the actual clothing in the museum today
where there is not a spa of blood
whatsoever on that clothing how do you
think the detective will respond well
well
um he's a very logical guy so I think
he'll hear me out and
and
you know when I when after we had our
discussion and he presented his theory
to me I started thinking about it
immediately and how I had set up
different tests
um to test his theory and I was looking
through some photos that I had taken
and one of them I found was this one
of me standing at the door in Carthage
and you can see right here this is the shot
shot
that he is saying struck Hiram in the back
back
and you can tell right off the bat that
shot is super high I'm about the height
of Hiram
and that would not hit me in the lower
back that would be you know that would
come through my ribs
so right off the bat I'm like I think
that's pretty strong evidence against
his theory that he was shot through the
door in the back first how many people
do you think have been convinced by the
forensic evidence you've presented
um that's a good question
I think most people who watch the film
were convinced by that that there is no
way that the narrative the way that it
is told now that that could have worked now
now
I could have stopped there and been fine
and accomplished my goal but I I kept
going and this is where I got into
trouble is because then I wanted to know
well if they if that's not what happened
those narratives then what did happen
and so I came up with my own Theory the
Inside Job Theory after reviewing everything
everything
and uh
you know I don't think I agree with the
detective I don't have enough evidence
to prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt in
the court of law I don't think I would
convince the whole jury Beyond a
reasonable doubt that it was an inside job
job
but I also agree with the detective none
of the other theories could do that
either so
the jury is still out on what actually
happened that day nobody's made a case
so far
that proves absolutely that this is what
happened but out of all of the theories
that I've come across and many people
have shared many different theories with
me I've tested most of them and I'm
going to test the detectives Theory most
of them get eliminated so so far the
only one that I've personally seen that
is still standing is the Inside Job Theory
Theory
what was your motivation for making this
uh uh my motivation
has evolved over time
it started out I just was seeking for
the truth what happened in those two to
three minutes because I don't think
anybody knows
and I hear all sorts of different
stories and I didn't want to take anyone
else's word for it like I had my whole
life I wanted to figure it out for
myself what happened and I was willing
to do the work
and uh
you know by the by the time I had
finished most of my initial tests I uh
could very well explain in my own words
what I thought happened
and so you know I
that motivation went away
but after time
you know I got I got excommunicated
for presenting that theory and
you know that's when I lost everything
that's when everything in my life changed
changed
and my motivation changed also at that
point I just wanted to vindicate myself
and so I got into all sorts of debates
and fights with people
and I just wanted to show them no I was axed
axed
for the wrong reasons this is really
what happened in Carthage and I wasn't
fair what they did
but that
puts you in a really dark place um
um
you know I wasn't building relationships
I was destroying relationships or
putting big wedges in relationships by
by doing that so I realized that and I
just stopped so I didn't want to prove
anything to anyone else I'd already
proved what I wanted to prove to myself
and I was ready to you know put this project
project
side and maybe work on something else
but then the movie came out and
I started getting all sorts of messages
from people about it and uh
there's there's four when you've
hear something if you've been a member
of the church your whole life and you
hear something about the history that
just rocks you to the core that you
didn't know
there's four ways that I've seen people
react to that
and the first is to just ignore it and
act like it never happened the second is
people that just double down on
defending the church and I think their
motivation is well I know the church is
true therefore there has to be an answer
for this so they just
defend defend the church
the third reaction that I've seen is
people that are just so frustrated and
they feel so betrayed about whatever
thing they learned from the past that
they just throw all of it out
and then the fourth reaction is
is
the people who turn to God
and say you know I've relied on man my
whole life they've given me all these
answers now I can see that there's
problems in those answers what am I
supposed to do
and I was more along the lines of my own reaction
reaction
um so the so the different messages that
I was getting I definitely tons of
people just ignored the evidence
um I got all sorts of messages from
people who just absolutely hated the
movie and hated what I did
um you know
I think his name is dark I did a four
hours worth of podcast just ripping the
movie and everything about it and then
that works with Fair he came out and was
like I wish the church could have
excommunicated him twice so I got I got
a lot of that reaction
but I also got a ton of reaction
from people who had turned to God
at one point in their life already
and they know how to go to him and ask
for answers or Direction on what to do
when they come to a difficult question and
and
you know
most of these people when they reached
out to me said I've known for a long
time that there's something wrong with
the martyrdom that this story doesn't
add up
but I didn't know what it was until you
made this movie and you put that into words
words
so that was
that was awesome you know it was worth
doing all this just to meet these people
and be able to talk anyone that puts God
first doesn't freak out when you ask the
hard questions that's somebody I wanted
to be friends with and have a
relationship with then you have that
final group the people who threw
everything out and this is this is the
saddest one
and I even had people who reached out to me
me
that said they had thrown everything out
they had given up on God given up on
Christ given up on the church the book
of woman they threw everything
because they just didn't want to trust
in man they had felt so betrayed and
then they watched the movie somehow they
found it
and they said to me
you know if this narrative is not
correct if what the church is saying
didn't really happen you know what does
and
it helped them realize that they had
been putting their faith in man
and that's why they had a faith crisis
is because they trusted man
but in their hearts they'd always known
that God was there
and so when they saw that man can mess
up and man can make mistakes and the
history is not correct well what else
could they maybe not be correct about
that gave them the opportunity to
start looking for answers themselves so
not just trusting the normal narrative
but going to God themselves
toying with them and watching people
who've thrown it all out come back to
their testimony of God of Jesus Christ
The Book of Mormon and even the Prophet Joseph
Joseph
has been one of the most rewarding parts
of of doing this work so that's what my
motivation is now is to continue to
reach out to those who are wondering
about the history and what happened and
helping them to find their own answers
do you think the leaders of the LDS
um
well that would be great if they did but
I understand that there's no way the
leaders of the church can answer every
single question that everybody has
about hurt church history or you know
Doctrine or whatever so what they
typically do is they refer you to your
local authorities either your Stig
president or your Bishop to help you
with your questions and in my case that
didn't work out very well obviously
but I've heard stories of other people
who go in with their bishop or their
stake president and they end up having a wonderful
wonderful
experience working together you know
some of these Bishops are just like I
don't know the answer to that but I'll
study it with you and let's go through
it and let's pray and see if we can come
to conclusions together so I mean how
cool would that be
if my leaders my local leaders have been
like let's do that
um they didn't they didn't choose that
path with me maybe maybe someday they
will but you know in the meantime I
don't think yeah I'm not ever thinking
the church
you know authorities are ever going to
watch it or respond to it what's the
biggest weakness of the inside job Theory
Theory
that's easy
it's the historical account
and what do I mean by that
so when I was in that debate mode with
people every time I lost a debate
it was because they would bring up the
historical account
and I couldn't speak to it I've tried my
best to convince them why the physical
but if they don't want to believe that
that's fine so what I've done over the
last year
is studied the historical evidence
myself I found over 70 accounts of the
martyrdom pertaining to what happened in
that two to three minutes at Carthage
and that took a long time to study those
and understand those and
now I'm ready
if anyone wants to have a discussion or
talk about the martyrdom and in a or a
debate or whatever you want kind of
conversation if you want to get to the
truth and you want to talk about the
in Dallin Oaks Carthage conspiracy he
quotes you Dosha Marsh
her brother-in-law was an officer in the
Graze assigned to guard the jail on the
evening of the martyrdom he burst into
a party of men are coming to take Joe
Smith from jail and hang him in the Square
I didn't just make that up about the
hanging in the first film and udosha
Marsh wasn't the only one who said it
one of the baggage wagon drivers for the
mob named Benjamin brackenberry
testified under oath that he also
thought The Mob wanted to grab Joseph
and hang him why is this tiny overlooked
detail so important it's because it
paints a completely different picture
than the standard narrative we've all
in our minds we see a huge angry mob
pushing their way into the jail and
barreling up the stairs with their
muskets so they can shoot everyone in
the room
in reality it was only a few probably
very scared mom members who actually
went into the jail Thomas Dixon
testified in court that it was only
about a half a dozen
and according to other eyewitness
as soon as the mob arrived at the jail
those in charge yelled out to the Jailer
to surrender the prisoners and when he
refused they ordered their youngest guys
Colonel Williams shouted out rush in
there's no danger boys all is right
according to William Matthias they were
given liquor so they'd have the courage
to go through with it
William Daniels and brackenberry both
said this exact same thing
but when these kids got to the top of
the stairs the door was shut and they
had no idea what to do
in the adrenaline rush of the moment a
few of them shot at the door with their muscles
now imagine these young men's surprise
when the door flew open and Joseph
started firing at them no one told them
that the prisoners would be armed what
would you have done in that situation
five different Witnesses at the jail
that day described what happened next
Henry Matthias William Webb William
Daniels William R Hamilton and Benjamin brackenberry
brackenberry
each of these accounts gives different
names different wounds and different
descriptions of what happened when they
were trying to grab Joseph including
William Grover who claimed Joseph
punched him twice in the face all of
these accounts are full of
inconsistencies and contradictions and I
understand now why historians rarely
refer to them
even so I think there is enough of an
overlap between them that it's safe to
assume there was a gunfight at the top
there is no way Joseph was going to let
them take him hire him or his supposed
friends not again
not like they did when he was tart and feathered
[Music] foreign
Jonathan [Music]
[Applause] [Music]
you can see now why Joseph fought back inside of the jail
it is interesting to note that none of the witnesses who were part of that
the witnesses who were part of that gunfight in the jail ever mention
gunfight in the jail ever mention anything about Taylor and Richards
anything about Taylor and Richards knocking down their muskets with walking
knocking down their muskets with walking sticks
this is the walking stick that we used in the movie okay
in the movie okay and we had the actors jamming these
and we had the actors jamming these muskets through the door with the
muskets through the door with the bayonets on them
bayonets on them and look at the damage
one day I was sitting there looking at that thinking to myself both of them had
that thinking to myself both of them had walking sticks
walking sticks that they were doing this knocking the
that they were doing this knocking the musket down there's probably marks on
musket down there's probably marks on there yeah so we have that walking stick
there yeah so we have that walking stick in the museum no marks
in the museum no marks so it's it's a really strange it has all
so it's it's a really strange it has all these bumps on it
these bumps on it and some of the bumps are torn off but
and some of the bumps are torn off but there's none of these scrapes right
there's none of these scrapes right so if you if you saw a more linear
so if you if you saw a more linear damage which would be associated with
damage which would be associated with hitting the the blade of the um so I'm
hitting the the blade of the um so I'm like does this future analysis church if
like does this future analysis church if they would let me Analyze That walking
they would let me Analyze That walking stick and then I get equivalent ones and
stick and then I get equivalent ones and run and see what happens to the damage
run and see what happens to the damage yeah now if I show that that was the
yeah now if I show that that was the real walking stick and there was no
real walking stick and there was no damage on it
damage on it would you say misremembering or lying
would you say misremembering or lying that they were knocking down muskets
that they were knocking down muskets yeah I would say that would be lie yeah
yeah I would say that would be lie yeah okay because that's a complete creation
okay because that's a complete creation of an act that didn't happen
of an act that didn't happen both the physical evidence and the
both the physical evidence and the historical evidence suggest this part of
historical evidence suggest this part of Taylor and Richard's narrative could
Taylor and Richard's narrative could have been a complete fabrication
have been a complete fabrication I look forward to exploring this
I look forward to exploring this evidence further
evidence further on the other hand nobody disputes that
on the other hand nobody disputes that Joseph had a six shooter or that Hiram
Joseph had a six shooter or that Hiram had a single shot pistol
had a single shot pistol but
but did Taylor and Richards also have guns
did Taylor and Richards also have guns in part one I made a startling
in part one I made a startling allegation that John Taylor had a six
allegation that John Taylor had a six shooter and Willard Richards was hiding
shooter and Willard Richards was hiding two pistols in his coat
two pistols in his coat as it turns out
as it turns out the historical record backs up this
the historical record backs up this possibility
in the Warsaw signal extra Thomas sharp printed that Joe and his fellow
printed that Joe and his fellow prisoners it seems had provided
prisoners it seems had provided themselves with pistols
themselves with pistols Governor Thomas Ford laments in his
Governor Thomas Ford laments in his history that he was the one blamed for
history that he was the one blamed for not having the prisoners checked for
not having the prisoners checked for these weapons in John Hayes account many
these weapons in John Hayes account many years later he questions General Deming
years later he questions General Deming the Jack Mormon sheriff for not
the Jack Mormon sheriff for not investigating the matter and then goes
investigating the matter and then goes on to State one of the most intriguing
on to State one of the most intriguing facts in the entire historical record he
facts in the entire historical record he said that Joseph Smith had two six
said that Joseph Smith had two six barrel revolvers in the jail two
barrel revolvers in the jail two but he believes Joseph could only have
but he believes Joseph could only have fired one of them
fired one of them there they are
there they are the possible murder weapons
the fact that the historical record proves John Taylor and Willard Richards
proves John Taylor and Willard Richards also had pistols
also had pistols was startling
was startling but imagine my surprise when I came
but imagine my surprise when I came across the statement given by Elder
across the statement given by Elder Samuel Jones
Samuel Jones three days after the martyrdom he
three days after the martyrdom he claimed an eyewitness at the jail named
claimed an eyewitness at the jail named Dixon saw that Joseph and Hiram were
Dixon saw that Joseph and Hiram were murdered by friends
murdered by friends foreign
it's not easy finding any further confirming details of Elder Jones
confirming details of Elder Jones bombshell revelation except that he was
bombshell revelation except that he was a well-respected member of the church
a well-respected member of the church a few months after saying it he was
a few months after saying it he was excommunicated
excommunicated [Music]
[Music] a jaw-dropping details don't stop there
a jaw-dropping details don't stop there for the longest time I've suspected the
for the longest time I've suspected the mob only shot their muskets a few times
mob only shot their muskets a few times into the room my suspicion was confirmed
into the room my suspicion was confirmed when I discovered the missionary couple
when I discovered the missionary couple who remodeled the jail in the 1930s they
who remodeled the jail in the 1930s they scraped all of the plaster in the room
scraped all of the plaster in the room off the walls and found no bullet marks
off the walls and found no bullet marks in any of the underlying lather Stone
in any of the underlying lather Stone maybe the laugh had been replaced but
maybe the laugh had been replaced but the stone was still original and I can
the stone was still original and I can tell you by personal experience that if
tell you by personal experience that if you fire a 69 caliber musket into a
you fire a 69 caliber musket into a limestone block even if it's covered
limestone block even if it's covered with a layer of plaster it's still going
with a layer of plaster it's still going to leave a permanent mark
bite the lack of any physical evidence many people today still believe the room
many people today still believe the room ended up riddled with bullet holes in
ended up riddled with bullet holes in the walls
the walls this assumption is prevalent and it may
this assumption is prevalent and it may have started with the only two
have started with the only two contemporary Witnesses who mentioned
contemporary Witnesses who mentioned bullet holes
bullet holes the first was Willard Richards who wrote
the first was Willard Richards who wrote that a shower of balls was pouring
that a shower of balls was pouring through all parts of the room many of
through all parts of the room many of which lodged in the ceiling just above
which lodged in the ceiling just above the head of Hiram
the head of Hiram that's odd
that's odd the second was Joseph Smith's attorney
the second was Joseph Smith's attorney J.W Woods who claims to have inspected
J.W Woods who claims to have inspected the jail the day after the martyrdom and
the jail the day after the martyrdom and noted 35 bullets lodged in the room I
noted 35 bullets lodged in the room I had a hard time believing Woods account
had a hard time believing Woods account because he was completely mistaken in
because he was completely mistaken in his description of Joseph's wounds
his description of Joseph's wounds according to Woods
according to Woods Joseph was raising the East window to
Joseph was raising the East window to escape the room when a ball hit him
escape the room when a ball hit him under the jaw and passed out through his
under the jaw and passed out through his left eye
left eye now why would Joseph need to open that
now why would Joseph need to open that window if John Taylor had already tried
window if John Taylor had already tried to jump out of it
to jump out of it articles appearing in the Warsaw signal
articles appearing in the Warsaw signal and Quincy Herald also said that window
and Quincy Herald also said that window was closed
was closed but all of the other accounts say it was
but all of the other accounts say it was already open
already open so who knows
Woods then Wades into the leaped versus fell debate by siding with those who
fell debate by siding with those who said Joseph fell out of the window after
said Joseph fell out of the window after he was shot
he was shot let me explain why this debate is so
let me explain why this debate is so important we have 19 different accounts
important we have 19 different accounts of people describing how Joseph came out
of people describing how Joseph came out of the window 14 of which came from
of the window 14 of which came from eyewitnesses who were in Carthage when
eyewitnesses who were in Carthage when it happened
it happened Richards Taylor and Harman used the word
Richards Taylor and Harman used the word leaped and Willie Hamilton Wilson and
leaped and Willie Hamilton Wilson and Dixon said he fell Webb said that he
Dixon said he fell Webb said that he jumped which puts him more in the leaped
jumped which puts him more in the leaped camp but then turned around and also
camp but then turned around and also said Joseph fell it's hard to know which
said Joseph fell it's hard to know which side Daniels was on because he said
side Daniels was on because he said Joseph leaped fell and hung on the
Joseph leaped fell and hung on the window ledge for a few minutes
window ledge for a few minutes Samuel Arthur Williams used the word
Samuel Arthur Williams used the word tumbled
tumbled sharp said Joseph threw himself out of
sharp said Joseph threw himself out of the window countered by Sherman and
the window countered by Sherman and Marsh who both said Joseph was thrown
Marsh who both said Joseph was thrown out or pitched headlong
out or pitched headlong Barnes first used the word leaped in his
Barnes first used the word leaped in his account which he repeated from Richards
account which he repeated from Richards but then corrected himself and said fell
but then corrected himself and said fell I suspect most of the other witnesses
I suspect most of the other witnesses that used the word leaped were also
that used the word leaped were also influenced by Richards now why do you
influenced by Richards now why do you suppose Willard Richards would be so
suppose Willard Richards would be so anxious for people to believe Joseph
anxious for people to believe Joseph leaped from the window rather than fell
regardless of whether Joseph leaped or fell out of the window none of the other
fell out of the window none of the other Witnesses standing outside of the jail
Witnesses standing outside of the jail mentioned seeing John Taylor ever come
mentioned seeing John Taylor ever come to the window which adds to my suspicion
to the window which adds to my suspicion that that part of his story also never
that that part of his story also never happened
happened so J.W Woods said fell which more
so J.W Woods said fell which more witnesses agreed with
witnesses agreed with he also matched several other key
he also matched several other key details from different accounts
details from different accounts so it is conceivable he wasn't just
so it is conceivable he wasn't just embellishing his story about the 35
embellishing his story about the 35 bullet holes
bullet holes but still how could he have been so
but still how could he have been so wrong about Joseph's wounds
wrong about Joseph's wounds let's look at his statement again
let's look at his statement again a ball hit him under the jaw and passed
a ball hit him under the jaw and passed through his left eye
through his left eye can you see it that's not Joseph that's
can you see it that's not Joseph that's Hiram
Hiram Joseph's attorney is describing the shot
Joseph's attorney is describing the shot that killed Hyrum
that killed Hyrum Woods also said that a ball shot through
Woods also said that a ball shot through Joseph's back struck the watch in his
Joseph's back struck the watch in his left vest pocket
left vest pocket that's how I know for sure he was really
that's how I know for sure he was really talking about Hiram
Dr Barnes and the coroner's jury both described the same thing Hiram was shot
described the same thing Hiram was shot in the throat the ball exited out of the
in the throat the ball exited out of the left side of his nose
by now I hope you're asking yourself the same
I hope you're asking yourself the same question I've been asking myself
pointing to an inside job have been in the historical record this entire time
the historical record this entire time and none of us knew about them
and none of us knew about them such a good question
such a good question so far out of the 73 different martyrdom
so far out of the 73 different martyrdom accounts I've found
accounts I've found one in particular has bothered me the
one in particular has bothered me the most
after the martyrdom the Nauvoo neighbor reprinted an article from the Quincy
reprinted an article from the Quincy Herald stating that it would probably
Herald stating that it would probably never be known who shot Joseph and Hiram
never be known who shot Joseph and Hiram it only took two weeks for both sides to
it only took two weeks for both sides to concede that this conspiracy would never
concede that this conspiracy would never be solved
be solved here we are
here we are almost 200 years later
almost 200 years later and I just can't live with that
and I just can't live with that and I think the leaders from both sides
and I think the leaders from both sides giving up so easily is very telling
giving up so easily is very telling I understand how all of the conflicting
I understand how all of the conflicting testimonies make this investigation a
testimonies make this investigation a mess but once you understand the
mess but once you understand the forensic evidence you can better see in
forensic evidence you can better see in the historical account how Willard
the historical account how Willard crafted his narrative and used it to
crafted his narrative and used it to influence the other Witnesses
influence the other Witnesses for example Thomas Barnes was one of the
for example Thomas Barnes was one of the first people in the jail after the mob
first people in the jail after the mob fled Carthage
fled Carthage he was the doctor that removed the ball
he was the doctor that removed the ball from Taylor's hand and he asked Willard
from Taylor's hand and he asked Willard how he was the only one of the four men
how he was the only one of the four men not wounded Willard responded that he
not wounded Willard responded that he had been hiding in the corner to the
had been hiding in the corner to the right of the door using it as a shield
right of the door using it as a shield William Hamilton was also one of the few
William Hamilton was also one of the few in the jail immediately after the attack
in the jail immediately after the attack he also confirmed the same story about
he also confirmed the same story about Willard hiding in the corner
Willard hiding in the corner Willard must have regretted saying that
Willard must have regretted saying that to Barnes and Hamilton almost
to Barnes and Hamilton almost immediately
immediately perhaps he thought it sounded cowardly
perhaps he thought it sounded cowardly because later that night in his first
because later that night in his first written account of the martyrdom he
written account of the martyrdom he changes his story to say he stood on the
changes his story to say he stood on the left of the door with Joseph and John
left of the door with Joseph and John Taylor
Taylor then a month later in his seventh
then a month later in his seventh account
account that's when he first added in the detail
that's when he first added in the detail about bravely knocking down muskets with
about bravely knocking down muskets with his walking stick
his walking stick both Barns and Hamilton saw with their
both Barns and Hamilton saw with their own eyes Hiram laying on the floor dead
own eyes Hiram laying on the floor dead both say he was struck by the bullet
both say he was struck by the bullet shot through the door panel
shot through the door panel the forensic evidence now proves that's
the forensic evidence now proves that's impossible
impossible but even if it was possible how could
but even if it was possible how could they have known neither of them were in
they have known neither of them were in the jail when it happened there is only
the jail when it happened there is only one way they could have come up with
one way they could have come up with that story
that story Willard
Willard and that's exactly why the mob members
and that's exactly why the mob members who shot through the door also said it
who shot through the door also said it struck Hiram but how could they have
struck Hiram but how could they have known that if the door was closed
after the mob ran out of the jail and saw Joseph die next to the well
saw Joseph die next to the well Willard dragged Taylor into the
Willard dragged Taylor into the adjoining cell and then stood in the
adjoining cell and then stood in the doorway and waited for them to return he
doorway and waited for them to return he knew once Joseph was dead that they'd be
knew once Joseph was dead that they'd be back for Hiram when they came back up
back for Hiram when they came back up the stairs and opened the door they must
the stairs and opened the door they must have been pretty confused to see Hiram
have been pretty confused to see Hiram already dead on the floor but Willard
already dead on the floor but Willard was right there anxious to explain that
was right there anxious to explain that it was their shot through the door panel
it was their shot through the door panel that killed him a couple of half
that killed him a couple of half inebriated teenagers had no reason to
inebriated teenagers had no reason to believe Willard was lying and Willard
believe Willard was lying and Willard was happy to let them take the credit
was happy to let them take the credit that made these kids instant Heroes and
that made these kids instant Heroes and celebrities to everyone in the county
celebrities to everyone in the county who thought the Smiths were dangerous
who thought the Smiths were dangerous criminals
criminals fact two of them were gifted new suits
fact two of them were gifted new suits of clothing by the citizens of Warsaw
of clothing by the citizens of Warsaw and green plains for their bravery in
and green plains for their bravery in the matter
the matter it was the perfect cover-up
it was the perfect cover-up [Music]
I have invited multiple LDS historians and Scholars with expertise on the
and Scholars with expertise on the martyrdom for a sit-down interview and
martyrdom for a sit-down interview and they all refused
they all refused I understand how being in someone else's
I understand how being in someone else's film would be a risk but the invitation
film would be a risk but the invitation still stands anytime any of you would
still stands anytime any of you would like to try and explain again how the
like to try and explain again how the history has been settled let me know
history has been settled let me know and I'll be there
in the coming weeks we will post every known martyrdom account on the who
known martyrdom account on the who killed josephsmith.com website
killed josephsmith.com website this will be the first time ever that
this will be the first time ever that every account will be available in one
every account will be available in one searchable database we will also
searchable database we will also continue to add new accounts as they are
continue to add new accounts as they are identified
identified for example just last year Mormon expert
for example just last year Mormon expert John hiacek acquired a trove of early
John hiacek acquired a trove of early Utah Mormon documents from a private
Utah Mormon documents from a private collection
collection within those documents he discovered a
within those documents he discovered a curious sermon given by John Taylor on
curious sermon given by John Taylor on January 23 1848.
January 23 1848. in that sermon John Taylor argued that
in that sermon John Taylor argued that there is such a thing as a righteous
there is such a thing as a righteous motive for murder
motive for murder Elder Taylor cautioned members of the
Elder Taylor cautioned members of the church to not judge others for murder
church to not judge others for murder when you do not fully understand their
when you do not fully understand their motives
motives he likened this to Moses explaining that
he likened this to Moses explaining that he was wrongfully judged by his brethren
he was wrongfully judged by his brethren for killing the Egyptian which was a
for killing the Egyptian which was a righteous act and he did it in order to
righteous act and he did it in order to save his people from oppression
save his people from oppression this account has never before been made
this account has never before been made public
public we look forward to continuing our
we look forward to continuing our examination of whatever new evidence the
examination of whatever new evidence the future brings
the night of the premiere was an incredible experience I met so many
incredible experience I met so many amazing people
amazing people but there's some unfinished business
but there's some unfinished business from that night after we showed the film
from that night after we showed the film we had a question and answer period And
we had a question and answer period And a lady from the audience raised her hand
a lady from the audience raised her hand she looked a little bit distraught and
she looked a little bit distraught and she asked the question
she asked the question what are we supposed to do now
I knew exactly what she was asking but I didn't answer her
didn't answer her I hope that someday we can meet again so
I hope that someday we can meet again so we can talk that through but if not I
we can talk that through but if not I hope she's watching this
hope she's watching this because what I would say to her now
because what I would say to her now is when you first start realizing that
is when you first start realizing that the martyrdom may have been an inside
the martyrdom may have been an inside job your instinct is going to be to deny
job your instinct is going to be to deny it
it but that's why in ether chapter 8 verse
but that's why in ether chapter 8 verse 24 the Lord commands us to wake up to
24 the Lord commands us to wake up to our awful situation don't go back to
our awful situation don't go back to sleep if John Taylor really was involved
sleep if John Taylor really was involved with this how could he have been a
with this how could he have been a prophet and if he wasn't a prophet is
prophet and if he wasn't a prophet is the church today still true
these are questions that only God can answer for you but if you want the truth
answer for you but if you want the truth you're going to have to go into the
you're going to have to go into the wilderness
wilderness that's what God calls it in the
that's what God calls it in the scriptures
scriptures when you go on an Epic Journey
all alone and leave everything behind
and leave everything behind to go and find him
to go and find him [Music]
labeled and rejected
[Music]
[Music] in the wilderness
in the wilderness this label doesn't mean anything
this label doesn't mean anything the only thing here is you
the only thing here is you and God
and God and it came to pass that he departed
and it came to pass that he departed Into the Wilderness
Into the Wilderness and he left his house and the land of
and he left his house and the land of his inheritance and his gold and his
his inheritance and his gold and his silver and his precious things and took
silver and his precious things and took nothing with him
nothing with him and I will also be your light in the
and I will also be your light in the wilderness and I will prepare the way
wilderness and I will prepare the way before you if it's so be that you shall
before you if it's so be that you shall keep my Commandments
and they did Harden their hearts from time to time
time to time [Music]
[Music] and the Lord did straighten them in the
and the Lord did straighten them in the wilderness with his rod
[Music] [Applause]
[Applause] [Music]
[Music] foreign
foreign [Music]
[Music] God
and if it's so be that the children of men keep the Commandments of God head of
men keep the Commandments of God head of nourish them and strengthen them and
nourish them and strengthen them and provide means whereby they can
provide means whereby they can accomplish the thing which he has
accomplish the thing which he has commanded them
and they began to Bear their journeyings without murmurings
[Music] yea and the Lord said also that after
yea and the Lord said also that after you have arrived in the promised land
you have arrived in the promised land you shall know that I the Lord am God
yeah I think everything's gonna be okay
men saying things they are starting to seem like they're fighting to be the one
seem like they're fighting to be the one true God
here on my knees I will seek to receive something I've never said that's on my
something I've never said that's on my mind
[Applause] [Music]
[Music] [Applause]
[Applause] Darkness invades oh my sins is afraid
Darkness invades oh my sins is afraid falling all I can do is call your name
falling all I can do is call your name [Music]
[Music] I see in my mind's eye blinding two
I see in my mind's eye blinding two figures
[Music] about down before you I bow down
[Music] [Applause]
[Music] [Applause]
before you father
father and always
[Music] the father foreign
[Music] [Applause]
foreign [Applause]
[Applause] [Music]
[Music] [Applause]
[Music] maybe you still believe John Taylor and
maybe you still believe John Taylor and Willard Richards were telling the truth
Willard Richards were telling the truth even though the evidence contradicts
even though the evidence contradicts their accounts of the martyrdom maybe
their accounts of the martyrdom maybe the contradictions don't bother you
the contradictions don't bother you because you know that eyewitnesses are
because you know that eyewitnesses are usually mistaken or maybe you believe it
usually mistaken or maybe you believe it doesn't matter because it's impossible
doesn't matter because it's impossible for anyone to know exactly what happened
for anyone to know exactly what happened that long ago
that long ago or perhaps you feel it's immoral to
or perhaps you feel it's immoral to accuse someone of a crime when they
accuse someone of a crime when they aren't alive to defend themselves
aren't alive to defend themselves these reactions might sound reasonable
these reactions might sound reasonable but if you believe any of them and how
but if you believe any of them and how can you still be so sure about polygamy
can you still be so sure about polygamy why do you believe the self-proclaimed
why do you believe the self-proclaimed eyewitnesses who claim Joseph was a
eyewitnesses who claim Joseph was a polygamist how could you understand
polygamist how could you understand everything Joseph was doing almost 200
everything Joseph was doing almost 200 years ago why are you okay with accusing
years ago why are you okay with accusing him
him he isn't here to defend himself
he isn't here to defend himself undeniable truth is that from 1830 to
undeniable truth is that from 1830 to 1844 in many printed Publications
1844 in many printed Publications numerous public sermons forceful letters
numerous public sermons forceful letters private journals and highly public
private journals and highly public trials and excommunications Joseph Smith
trials and excommunications Joseph Smith in concert with his brother Hiram and
in concert with his brother Hiram and his beloved wife Emma vehemently
his beloved wife Emma vehemently preached relentlessly taught indeed
preached relentlessly taught indeed fiercely fought against polygamy
fiercely fought against polygamy plurality of wives spiritual wifery and
plurality of wives spiritual wifery and anything like them in the scriptures he
anything like them in the scriptures he revealed and in many public statements
revealed and in many public statements Joseph equated any form of polygamy with
Joseph equated any form of polygamy with adultery and whoredoms the only private
adultery and whoredoms the only private statements recorded by Joseph regarding
statements recorded by Joseph regarding polygamy expressly condemn and forbid
polygamy expressly condemn and forbid the practice without exception some of
the practice without exception some of his final words ever spoken to thousands
his final words ever spoken to thousands of gathered Saints just weeks before his
of gathered Saints just weeks before his murder were what a thing it is to be
murder were what a thing it is to be accused of having seven wives when I can
accused of having seven wives when I can only find one in contrast there is not a
only find one in contrast there is not a single public or private statement
single public or private statement contemporaneous document or verifiable
contemporaneous document or verifiable action taken by Joseph Smith during his
action taken by Joseph Smith during his lifetime in support of or tying him to
lifetime in support of or tying him to the practice period
the practice period but still you may be saying well he may
but still you may be saying well he may have been against it publicly but he
have been against it publicly but he practiced it privately right
practiced it privately right well
well guess who started that rumor
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