0:08 Hunter Biden, welcome to the show, man.
0:10 >> Thanks, man. Big fan.
0:12 >> I can't believe you're a fan. >> Why?
0:13 >> Why?
0:16 >> I don't know. It's just It's just I just
0:20 never It just It's wild to me that
0:22 you're a fan. Yeah, man. We're I'm
0:24 finding So, I mean, I pretty much
0:26 interviewed almost everybody that's on
0:29 the Trump admin now.
0:31 >> Yeah. And uh that kind of I think people
0:33 maybe I don't know people got maybe the
0:35 wrong impression to me that I agree with
0:37 everything that that side of the aisle
0:41 says and I don't but uh but you know we did
0:41 did
0:42 >> I'm going to get you in trouble. I got
0:44 the I got the exact opposite [laughter]
0:46 of impression.
0:49 >> Right on. But uh but uh yeah I don't
0:50 know. There's just some You know who
0:53 else? Elizabeth Warren's team listens to
0:55 my show a lot. That really really
0:56 surprised me.
1:00 >> Okay. So here here's why is that you're
1:02 a great listener
1:09 [snorts] and I think that the uh the
1:11 authentic way in which you listen and respond
1:13 respond
1:16 leads me to believe that um that you're
1:18 just open like you're open to
1:21 information and you're not judging it as
1:23 it's coming over the transom unless it's
1:24 just [ __ ] outrageous,
1:29 >> you know, um or somebody's is being uh
1:34 hateful or or lying or insincere. >> And
1:35 >> And
1:37 you know, I was saying to those guys out
1:39 there, I watch you do the um I've
1:41 watched everything. Not everything, but
1:43 I've watched I really do. I you know, I
1:47 I listen to you while I paint. And um
1:51 and uh
1:56 the the thing that always comes across
2:00 to me with you is that fundamentally you
2:03 have like a
2:07 core set of beliefs of values and
2:09 and
2:12 um and they're the same values I have. I
2:14 mean, and maybe that's a shock or a
2:16 surprise, but you know, I was saying to
2:18 you guys out there,
2:21 like we all think that, you know, if
2:23 you're Republican or Democrat, you know,
2:25 that we got nothing in common.
2:27 >> But I will tell you what I was raised,
2:31 what my my what what what I what I try
2:35 to, you know, I mean, obviously, I I try
2:37 and I've failed in many in many
2:42 respects. um and uh
2:46 and and and failed in in my addiction
2:47 and [clears throat] um and sometimes
2:50 fail in my sobriety in being the man
2:53 that I I I aspire to be. But I care
2:55 about my family.
2:59 I care about my friends. I care about my
3:02 community. I care about my country. And
3:04 I care about my faith. And
3:06 And
3:09 I'm, you know, maybe being presumptuous.
3:11 I think that's what you care about. And
3:13 I don't mean that like some saccharine [ __ ]
3:14 [ __ ]
3:18 >> but our prescription of how to make all
3:22 those things better may be different.
3:24 You know, and those are the things that
3:26 we used to argue about. >> Yeah.
3:26 >> Yeah.
3:30 >> You know, my, you know, I'd grown up,
3:31 you know, the majority of my friends
3:34 were all Republicans. you know, you
3:38 know, I I aspired, you know, uh I mean,
3:41 my heroes were the guy, you guys, you
3:44 know, um the people that served like my
3:48 brother, like you, like um you know, and uh
3:49 uh
3:54 and so anyway, my point is
3:58 I don't think uh
4:00 um I don't know why you'd be shocked
4:03 other than by the the impression
4:07 that's been left about me. Um, I don't know.
4:07 know.
4:10 >> I think I'm shocked because I'm doing
4:13 with this [ __ ] man. You grew up in this
4:15 in politics, you know, and and um
4:17 >> I didn't grow up in this, though, Sean.
4:18 >> Yeah, you're That's true. I mean, I
4:21 guess what I'm getting at is it's just,
4:23 man, it's so [ __ ] politicized now.
4:26 [clears throat] And so you think that I
4:28 mean you think that the Republican
4:30 Democrat which I don't even [ __ ] know
4:32 what it means to be a Republican anymore
4:33 to be honest with you. Think
4:35 everything's just so far off base now
4:36 that I I don't
4:40 >> I don't even know I have I have
4:42 conservative values and that's all I can
4:46 say anymore, you know. But um but it's
4:49 just become so divisive that this it it
4:51 appears that the decision has already
4:54 been made for you to most people on who
4:56 you can associate with, who you can
4:58 watch, who you can take information
5:00 from, and who you can't. And while I
5:05 don't I don't and will never again fall
5:09 into those [ __ ] lines. Um, I think a
5:10 lot of people, you know, I think a lot
5:12 of people can't they can't
5:13 [clears throat] see past and some things
5:15 have happened to me too, you know, since I've
5:16 I've
5:18 >> been in this game of [ __ ] podcasting
5:20 and started diving into politics. And,
5:24 you know, what I've realized is that um,
5:26 you know, whatever the mainstream media
5:28 determines the narrative is going to be
5:31 about you, that's what it's going to be.
5:34 Whether it has
5:37 Exactly right. But I mean, you know, I
5:40 am not a MAGA cultist. I don't agree
5:42 with everything that [clears throat]
5:46 >> that that comes out of that whatever uh
5:48 political movement. In fact, as time
5:50 moves on, I've agree with less less and
5:52 less and less of it. But, you know, but
5:54 if you look at the mainstream media, the
5:55 first thing they put in front of my
5:58 [ __ ] name every single [ __ ] time
6:01 is mega influencer, mega podcaster, mega
6:04 mega podcast, mega mega podcaster, Shawn
6:05 Ryan. It's like where do you come up?
6:08 Where do you come up with this [ __ ] But
6:09 >> but so anyways,
6:11 >> well maybe I missed some interviews. [laughter]
6:11 [laughter]
6:12 >> That's that's why
6:13 >> start getting nervous.
6:14 >> No, I mean I don't think you've missed much.
6:15 much.
6:16 >> No, I haven't. I've watched my heart on
6:19 my sleeve. I have like I have I have uh
6:22 you know serious disagreements with you
6:23 know with people that have been really
6:26 really I think objectively like cruel to
6:28 me. Like Tucker's been objectively cruel
6:29 to me. And I know that you're friends
6:31 with Tucker. I used to be uh I used to
6:33 know Tucker. I wasn't friends with Tucker.
6:34 Tucker. Um
6:35 Um
6:42 uh but you know I think that we're all
6:44 uh we look we should all have a common
6:47 enemy and the truth of the matter is
6:49 it's not any politician or federal
6:50 government worker.
6:54 >> Mhm. you know, who's who's benefiting
6:56 right now?
6:58 Who there, you know, whether the
7:00 Democrats are in control of Congress or
7:02 whether the Republicans are, who
7:05 ultimately seems to be benefiting?
7:06 >> Well, I can tell you who's not benefiting.
7:07 benefiting.
7:09 >> Not normal people. >> Yeah.
7:09 >> Yeah.
7:11 >> Not regular guys, not the guys you
7:12 served with, not the guys that I went to
7:15 high school with, not the, you know,
7:18 nobody that I know. um you know the
7:19 people that are benefiting and the
7:23 people that seem to have always some way
7:26 avoid the consequences
7:30 and uh and and win. >> Mhm.
7:30 >> Mhm.
7:35 >> And that's, you know, the.1%. >> Mhm.
7:35 >> Mhm.
7:37 >> And it's not even the 1% anymore. I
7:40 mean, it's like literally the, you know,
7:42 and I'm not saying, you know, all
7:44 billionaires are evil. I'm not saying
7:48 that. I promise you. Um but I am saying
7:54 uh that from from my vantage point
7:56 we are all the victims of the algorithms
7:59 that they have caged us in
8:02 every one of us and
8:03 and
8:08 we are uh are why are we all so mad at
8:10 each other? I can't I don't understand
8:12 this bad politics never used to be like
8:14 this. It didn't be like I'll tell you
8:17 why. Where's my the phone? Like
8:18 >> pick up your phone, man.
8:21 >> And then people are incentivized.
8:23 >> The people that we used to trust are
8:24 incredibly incentivized in a very
8:27 perverse way to make me hate you. >> Mhm.
8:28 >> Mhm.
8:31 >> To label you, Sean. Uh you're you're a
8:34 vet, special ops. You have a um inside
8:36 view of that. You have conservative
8:39 values. And so therefore, you know, at
8:41 one point or another, you supported um
8:43 you know, some of the things that Donald
8:45 Trump was saying. and you know and the
8:46 people that surrounded him and so
8:48 therefore you know what you are you're
8:51 my [ __ ] enemy you're my enemy I
8:52 shouldn't be sitting here >> y
8:53 >> y
8:56 >> you know what I mean you're
8:58 I the one thing I've come to the
9:01 conclusion of because my own experience
9:03 it's all [clears throat]
9:06 such a bunch of [ __ ] such a bunch of
9:08 [ __ ] I wish people would just wake up
9:09 up
9:09 >> I know man
9:13 >> wake up man remember your neighbor
9:15 remember your neighbor who by the way
9:18 may have voted for Donald Trump but
9:20 didn't vote for this
9:23 didn't vote for this now I could have
9:26 told him maybe do you know what I mean?
9:29 >> Mhm. But
9:35 I am uh I'm so I saw one of your shows
9:40 uh where you talked about um like some
9:42 days it feels like we're really on the
9:45 verge of real violence.
9:48 Not this uh what do they call it?
9:51 Stastic violence. not not these kind of
9:53 the the the seemingly endless violence
9:55 that we witness as it relates to what
9:57 just happened to Rob Reiner to his son
9:58 or what happened to Charlie Kirk or what
10:01 happened to the the students at Brown
10:04 University or what happened to the the
10:07 um people celebrating Hanukkah on Bondai
10:09 Beach, you know, and by the way that was
10:11 all what except for Charlie Kirk within
10:13 the past day
10:16 day. But beyond that violence, I saw you
10:18 talking to somebody about it. Like, are
10:20 we gonna be are we gonna pick picking up guns?
10:21 guns?
10:23 >> Well, what I think what you're referring
10:24 to is, you know, you you see
10:25 [clears throat] all this talk about revolution,
10:27 revolution,
10:29 >> you know, civil war, all this type of
10:32 [ __ ] And I mean, if you think if you
10:34 think about, you know, how would you how
10:36 would you destroy
10:37 the [clears throat] United States of
10:41 America? I mean, I don't think that you
10:44 destroy it by by
10:45 kinetic war.
10:48 >> I don't think you nuke it. I don't think
10:51 you send in troops. I don't think you,
10:53 you know, do a naval battle.
10:57 >> You divide them because I mean, there
10:59 are more guns
11:00 >> in this country. And I'm a gun orderer
11:03 and I'm a [ __ ] pro2A guy. Don't ever
11:04 try to take my damn guns. But >> yeah,
11:05 >> yeah,
11:06 >> you know, but
11:08 >> Okay. I mean, there are so many here
11:11 that if if if [clears throat] there was
11:13 an adversary that was successful in in
11:15 in dividing us so much so that it
11:17 actually ended up in kinetic war,
11:19 >> nobody could come in. You you can't even
11:22 send a country to come in here to aid
11:24 because there are so I mean there are so
11:28 many [ __ ] guns and I spent 14 years
11:31 in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, all over
11:33 the Middle East. They don't have half
11:34 the damn guns that we have in this
11:36 country. And that place is I mean there
11:38 are places there that you just I mean
11:40 you you're [ __ ] dead if you go
11:42 outside [clears throat]
11:44 and maybe you're dead if you don't go outside.
11:45 outside. >> Yeah.
11:45 >> Yeah.
11:47 >> And this here >> Yeah.
11:48 >> Yeah.
11:51 >> would be way worse.
11:53 >> Way worse than that. If when when the
11:55 desperation sets in, people start
11:58 getting hungry, cold,
12:00 >> they need warm clothes, they need food,
12:02 they need water, they need medication.
12:04 like when the system [ __ ] breaks down,
12:05 down,
12:07 >> this will be the most dangerous place in
12:09 the entire world without
12:12 >> 100% agree. I 100% agree. And so,
12:14 you know, [clears throat]
12:17 that's why I asked the question,
12:20 who's benefiting?
12:22 And one thing I know that who's
12:23 benefiting from what's happening in our
12:25 country right now is the immediate
12:27 answer to that is our is our is our
12:29 adversaries. her most obvious adversaries,
12:31 adversaries,
12:33 uh, Russians, Chinese,
12:37 um, the anacadri of other actors that I
12:39 think sometimes pretend that they're,
12:42 um, uh, our allies, but would would just
12:47 as well see us burn. Um, and then, uh,
12:49 who else is benefiting? The only people
12:52 that are are doing better and have consistently
12:54 consistently
12:56 amassed wealth
12:59 to a degree that has never been seen
13:03 before in human history are the oligarch
13:08 class of the uh the um uh the Elon Musks
13:11 and the Peter Teals and uh you know and
13:13 a whole host of other people. I'm not
13:15 just just picking them out, you know.
13:19 and Jeff Bezos and you know and and uh
13:22 and so there's a very very very finite
13:24 um uh uh infantism
13:26 infantism
13:29 in terms of number of people that are
13:31 that are benefiting
13:34 to a degree that we've never witnessed
13:36 before except one other time which was
13:40 in the turn of the century um in like
13:46 the 1900s early 1900s late 1800s uh and
13:49 uh with um you know the the uh the
13:52 guilded age and and uh you know JD
13:56 Rockefeller and and um uh the
14:01 >> Standard Oil and and that period of time
14:06 >> and I think to myself well what's the
14:09 solution right now what do I what you
14:13 know I think first first thing is is the
14:15 realization that you
14:17 There's no um
14:21 there's no savior coming.
14:24 There's no um uh
14:29 uh uh Christ uh character
14:32 of some political bent that is going to
14:34 come and you know fix everything. >> Mhm.
14:35 >> Mhm.
14:36 >> And going to um [clears throat] allow
14:40 people to begin to talk to each other
14:43 across the fence and you know across the
14:46 dinner table in any
14:49 you know near future. Mhm.
14:51 >> We have
14:56 uh but if the if the problem can't be solved
14:58 solved politically,
15:00 politically,
15:03 then how's it going to be solved?
15:05 Because it ain't getting any better.
15:09 And if you have uh if these people uh
15:11 that I that I watch on your shows and
15:14 and uh you know I'm a orange share
15:17 expert like everybody else on AI but if
15:18 you just listen to the people that are
15:20 actually building these things you know
15:22 what is it they think that there's a 20
15:26 to 30% chance that you know super
15:28 intelligence could cause a mass
15:30 extinction event and they think that you
15:31 know we're going to reach AGI in the
15:35 next 3 years and that AGI basically
15:36 means that we're going to have anywhere
15:41 from, you know, 70 to 90% unemployment.
15:46 And uh, you know, and so at a time in
15:50 which we're as a human race making an
15:53 evolutionary step
15:58 that that is never that that supersedes
15:59 every other evolutionary step that's
16:02 ever occurred before, what is the most
16:04 important thing that we could have? leadership
16:06 leadership
16:09 and what do we have? We have utter and
16:13 complete chaos right now and
16:15 at least from my perspective and I don't
16:18 you know like so I think well what can
16:22 we do? I listen to you. I listen to you
16:25 talk to people that I don't dis that I
16:27 don't necessarily obvious in any obvious
16:29 way agree with that. Some of by the way
16:33 who have been been really cruel to me personally.
16:35 personally.
16:38 Um but I listen
16:42 and try to figure out
16:46 is there any way that we can see eye to eye
16:47 eye
16:54 Because
16:57 what's the alternative? [snorts]
16:58 [snorts]
17:00 What's the alternative other than the
17:02 topic vision that you just talked about?
17:04 >> Well, I think the unfortunate thing,
17:05 Hunter, is a lot of people are hoping
17:08 for that to happen,
17:10 >> but they've never lived in that. So,
17:12 they don't know really what that's going
17:14 to be like. And I don't even know what
17:15 the [ __ ] that's going to be.
17:17 >> There's a lot of tough guys out there. a
17:18 lot of tough guys that that think that
17:22 they you know uh you know that think
17:24 that they because they own uh some of
17:26 the guns that you've shot in places
17:28 where they will never have been.
17:33 >> Mhm. including myself like you know um
17:35 let me give you example and I know that
17:38 we're done like and I the one thing I
17:40 promised myself that I wouldn't do is
17:42 like I think people are so sick like who
17:43 who gives a [ __ ] what Hunter Biden
17:46 thinks about politics right now and and
17:49 um but I can tell you just from my I can
17:50 only talk about from my personal experience
17:53 experience
17:56 and being witnessed to it at in a in a
17:58 very intimate way and being victim of it
18:01 in some ways and uh not a victim of it.
18:02 That's a that's a pretty lame way to say
18:04 it. Um uh
18:06 uh
18:11 being uh uh trapped by it, caged by it
18:13 in many ways, not by any choice of my own.
18:20 The president just put out that tweet,
18:22 okay, or what the whatever they call it
18:23 about Robert. >> Mhm.
18:24 >> Mhm.
18:29 And there somebody trying to break down the
18:34 [laughter]
18:37 I don't know what the [ __ ] that was.
18:39 They're storming the gates. They know
18:41 I'm in here. [laughter]
18:45 They're going to rip you off air. Yeah.
18:48 Well, anyway, uh
18:51 the president put out that uh true
18:54 social thing and um and everybody's
18:56 like, "God, it's just Harvard taste."
18:58 And it beneath the president, you know,
19:02 he basically basically bra blaming Rob
19:05 Reiner's murder and his wife Michelle's
19:11 murder on the fact that he is a um uh
19:12 that of Trump derangement syndrome. >> Mhm.
19:14 >> Mhm.
19:17 Everybody says, you know, just like, has
19:18 he lost his mind? Does he have, you
19:20 know, dementia and this and that? And,
19:22 you know, he's
19:24 and I I think he knows exactly what he's doing.
19:26 doing.
19:28 What he's doing is this. What he's
19:31 always done is he's giving people
19:33 permission structure.
19:38 Rob Reiner died violently because
19:40 because
19:43 he opposed me.
19:46 and I wish him his family well. Rest in
19:50 peace. That's what he's saying. And
19:52 And
19:54 in so doing, I think what he's basically
19:57 saying is, you know what, like stand in
20:01 my way and this is what happens.
20:04 And so
20:08 90% of people, I really believe 90% of
20:10 people, even his supporters, 90% of his
20:11 supporter goes like, "Oh, why did you
20:14 say that? That's so cruel. 10%.
20:16 10%.
20:26 And I see him do that over and over
20:28 again. And it really worries me. And by
20:30 the way, I don't saying that there
20:32 aren't people on the on the left that do
20:33 the same goddamn thing. >> Mhm.
20:34 >> Mhm.
20:38 >> And it is, you know, it it it turns my
20:40 stomach then.
20:42 >> Yeah. The difference is is the
20:43 president. [clears throat]
20:44 >> President has a responsibility.
20:45 >> I think the most important
20:48 responsibility of a president is not the
20:50 you know other than uh you know the
20:54 question of uh you know the deployment
20:57 of force is the tone that he sets for
20:59 the country more than any law more than anything.
21:00 anything. >> Mhm.
21:00 >> Mhm.
21:02 >> It's just the tone that he sets.
21:05 >> I'm with you. I mean it's you know just
21:08 it's it does though. It comes from you
21:11 know it's not just him. It it it you
21:12 know I mean with the with the Charlie
21:14 Kirk stuff and with the you know other
21:18 assassination attempt on him and Butler
21:20 which actually they shut down the
21:22 investigation on that for whatever
21:23 reason. I don't know why you wouldn't
21:24 want to know who tried to [ __ ] kill
21:28 you, but whatever, right? Nothing to see
21:30 here. But, you know, I mean, when you
21:32 when you have, you know, when you have a
21:34 political party that's continuously
21:37 saying you're a Nazi, you know, a
21:39 fascist, Nazi, fascist, Nazi, he's like
21:42 Hitler. You know what I mean? And then
21:44 you got assassination attempts all over
21:47 the [ __ ] country. It's just it's it's
21:49 it's it's uh
21:51 >> I know but you look I I don't want to
21:53 get into like the argument over the and
21:56 I really mean it but like I hear you. I
21:58 hear what you're saying but part of me
22:00 also says you don't want to be called a
22:02 fascist. Don't act like a fascist. And
22:06 I'm what I mean by fascism is this is deputizing
22:08 deputizing
22:12 a a largest federal
22:17 police force in history to go on
22:20 America's streets masked without
22:23 warrants and drag pregnant women out of
22:26 their cars in the snow and kneel on
22:28 their backs
22:33 of sending people to prisons.
22:37 death camps in El Salvador with no due process.
22:39 process.
22:42 I promise you
22:45 that I believe this with all my heart is
22:49 that you and I don't have any
22:51 any distance between us and what we
22:53 think about immigrants and immigration.
22:55 How many how many immigrants did you
22:56 serve with?
22:56 >> How many what
22:58 >> immigrants did you serve with?
22:58 >> Quite a few.
23:02 >> Quite a few. amazing people, right? How
23:04 about in your personal life? How many
23:06 people around here or that are in this
23:08 community that you're in or when you
23:12 were growing up that are from
23:14 immigrants? By the way, some, by the
23:16 way, that may have meant the rules to be
23:18 able to get in here and they shouldn't have
23:18 have
23:20 >> and they should probably leave if they did.
23:20 did. >> Mhm.
23:23 >> Mhm.
23:25 But I don't think that we have any
23:27 disagreement that one of the things that
23:30 makes this country an incredible country
23:32 is immigration. >> Yeah.
23:32 >> Yeah.
23:35 >> 30% of every new business in the United
23:37 States annually is started by an immigrant.
23:38 immigrant. >> Mhm.
23:39 >> Mhm.
23:43 >> 35% of the Fortune 100 CEOs in the
23:45 United States of America, top 100
23:47 companies in America are immigrants.
23:48 >> I did not know that. >> Yeah.
23:49 >> Yeah.
23:51 >> You know, I don't think I guess I
23:53 shouldn't. I I can't even [ __ ] say I
23:56 don't think anybody for myself, you
23:58 know, with the immigration thing, I I
24:01 think I think for me for me the issue
24:03 with the immigration stuff is is how
24:05 it's prioritized. So, I'll give you an example.
24:07 example.
24:09 I I know we need immigrants. I mean, we
24:10 built I mean, yeah,
24:12 >> we're building a studio. Ice rolls
24:14 through town. [laughter]
24:16 >> We couldn't get anybody to [ __ ] work
24:18 to finish building this out.
24:20 And this is only this is about 3 months
24:24 old. But point being I mean we have to
24:27 have them you know they I we have to
24:30 have them. They they they are the I mean
24:32 they just they are the worker base now.
24:35 It just is to our economy. But what I
24:36 what what I will say is when it comes to
24:39 the pri prioritization the stuff that
24:41 I'm talking about I mean I think what
24:43 for me specifically I got no problem
24:45 with immigration and I think what's
24:47 going on right now is also a [ __ ]
24:50 disaster. I think, you know, I think
24:55 that before we before we go in and and
24:57 deport every single person that's come
25:00 here, I I I I think we need to fix the
25:04 actual the system. The system on how you
25:06 get in. It's [ __ ] up. People can't get
25:09 in. Good. People can't get in. You know
25:10 what I mean? But what what's what's
25:13 happened from my from my perspective,
25:16 what I see is, you know, you look,
25:19 Hunter, we got all these guys coming
25:21 home and women, you know, from from
25:25 Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, 20 [ __ ]
25:28 plus years of war, right? Most of these
25:32 people can't even get help in the VA.
25:34 Can't even [ __ ] get that. You know
25:36 what I mean? Everybody knows there's a
25:39 veteran suicide epidemic. It's 22 a day.
25:41 It's been going on for more than a decade.
25:42 decade.
25:43 >> You know, we have a major suicide
25:45 epidemic going on with veterans. We have
25:48 a major addiction problem going on with
25:51 veterans. PTSD, traumatic brain injury.
25:54 I mean,
25:56 you name it.
25:58 Our people that spent 20 plus [ __ ]
26:00 years protecting this country can't get
26:03 the help they need. But if you flip on
26:08 the news, all you see is free hotels for
26:10 immigrants in New York. But Sean,
26:10 >> free healthcare.
26:13 >> Sean, I got I this free that. It's like
26:15 [ __ ] man. Like we we
26:17 >> that's real pain fighting for this
26:19 [ __ ] country. You know what I mean?
26:22 >> I got it. If that's if if if that's the
26:24 dichotomy that you're presented with. >> Okay.
26:26 >> Okay.
26:29 >> But again, I'll say this. You know what?
26:31 That's your algorithm, man.
26:35 Okay? Because here's the deal is that no
26:40 one that I know of, okay? Uh
26:42 Uh
26:44 that would say that they're a Democrat.
26:45 I don't even know if I'm a Democrat
26:47 anymore. I don't know if I'm a part of
26:48 any political because it's just like,
26:50 you know, pucks on all your houses in my
26:52 opinion. But not that you shouldn't
26:54 engage in the political process is like
26:55 I'm just talking about the parties. I
26:57 think it's like imperative that we don't
27:00 give up on politics as a solution. We
27:04 got to because what's the alternative?
27:07 >> I mean truly if if the politics and
27:09 process aren't a solution to our
27:12 problems that the only solution to is
27:15 who who who wins
27:19 in a zero sum game. Who wins? Guns
27:22 >> in that violence that you talked about.
27:25 But if you think that
27:30 and I again I don't want to make all
27:33 this about political about you know I
27:36 know that there that that that um the
27:38 people that you brought through here
27:40 really really care
27:42 um about the issues that you just talked
27:44 about. I care about them. I know my dad
27:48 did. I know. I know 100% he did about
27:50 veterans, about what's happening at the
27:53 VA, about the addiction problem, about
27:56 the suicide rate among veterans. I'm
27:57 absolutely certain that he did. And so
27:59 that's, you know, that's why he did the
28:02 PAC Act. That's why he did a whole host
28:03 of other things as it relates to
28:05 veterans, but I'm not going to like see
28:06 I don't want to get into my dad's policy
28:08 prescriptions because then everybody
28:09 just like turns off.
28:13 >> Yeah. But I can say this is this is that
28:16 nobody right now
28:19 is um uh in any way making even remotely
28:22 a credible argument
28:25 that uh if we
28:29 uh you know uh uh if we stop giving
28:32 immigrants free hotel rooms
28:35 then we'd be able to prioritize veterans instead.
28:35 instead. >> Mhm.
28:36 >> Mhm.
28:39 >> Like what a bunch of [ __ ] Like of
28:41 course that's what you prioritize.
28:42 >> Of course that's what you do. And not
28:45 only that is this is that okay let's
28:47 agree with this. It's a the system is
28:49 [ __ ] broken.
28:51 >> Completely broken. So let's get together
28:53 and do a bipartisan legislation as it
28:54 relates to it and we let's get the most
28:56 conservative senator in the United one
28:58 of the most conservative senators in the
29:00 United States Senate to come up with a
29:03 plan that his caucus will accept and
29:05 that he can sell to the uh to the Democrats.
29:05 Democrats. >> Mhm.
29:07 >> Mhm.
29:09 and let's let's let's create a piece of
29:12 legislation that a president sitting
29:14 president will sign into law that'll at
29:16 least begin to address some of these
29:17 problems. Some of the inequities on both
29:20 sides that are occurring
29:22 and what do we do?
29:25 >> James Inhof did that. Republican party
29:27 and the United States Senate did that.
29:28 They got an agreement with the
29:30 Republicans in Congress and the House
29:32 side that they would uh that they would
29:34 vote for the legislation.
29:36 And then Donald Trump stepped in six
29:39 months before the election and told them
29:40 that he was going to primary every
29:51 And the people when you say you turn on
29:56 the TV and what you see is a sea of of disinformation,
29:59 disinformation,
30:03 some of it real about the [ __ ] uh
30:09 you know uh you know uh uh over um uh
30:12 abundance of uh you know of of resources
30:14 that immigrants are are taking out of
30:17 the United States. And what do I see
30:20 when I turn on my um uh TV or open up my phone?
30:22 phone?
30:25 I see the exact opposite. >> Mhm.
30:26 >> Mhm.
30:28 >> And so we're both addicted to the problem.
30:29 problem. >> Mhm.
30:30 >> Mhm.
30:32 >> And nobody's talking about the solution.
30:34 And there's not somebody in politics
30:38 right now that I that is uh you know, I
30:39 think there are some people, but I I
30:42 don't think that we should expect
30:45 somebody to come in and save us.
30:46 I don't either.
30:48 >> I'll be honest with you, I [ __ ] have
30:52 given up. Like, I just I
30:52 it sucked.
30:54 >> But here's my problem. My problem is,
30:56 and I guess this goes to the the reason
30:59 why I why when you said you're surprised
31:01 that I listen, I I'm I'm I'm surprised
31:04 that uh I'm not surprised. I understand
31:06 where you're coming from on that.
31:09 >> Is this is Don't you think I want to >> Sorry.
31:10 >> Sorry.
31:11 >> I said, don't you think I want to figure
31:13 out a solution to the immigration issue?
31:14 I think a lot of people do.
31:15 >> Hey, let me ask you a question. Don't
31:17 you think Gavin Newsome wants to figure
31:21 out now he he I I assume that anybody
31:23 that's running for president, if they
31:25 could fix the immigration issue, would
31:29 try to fix the immigration issue,
31:33 right? Because we need immigration.
31:36 We need a vibrant immigration,
31:38 but we don't want immigrants that are
31:41 coming here illegally draining us of
31:45 resources and also um uh and and and
31:48 being prioritized above
31:50 people that are actual literal heroes
31:52 that are coming home that are uh that
31:56 are still recovering from uh 21 20 years
31:58 of of endless war
32:02 >> or anybody else in our society, Right.
32:03 Right. >> Mhm.
32:04 >> Mhm.
32:06 >> But nobody's everybody's talking past
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33:49 I mean, you know, when you talk about
33:51 nobody's coming to save us, nobody I
33:53 mean, there is no Christlike figure
33:56 coming, but but then you also say we
33:58 can't totally abandon politics as a as a
34:01 way to fix the problem. I think I think
34:02 that's what you've said.
34:05 >> I Yeah, I know. And it it's it's u I
34:15 that it is a um
34:18 uh oxymoronical I guess right so it that
34:21 uh but I'm I'm I'm trying to figure it
34:22 out and the only thing that I can think
34:24 of is conversations like this and not
34:28 that I'm some that uh in in any way
34:32 important but I really really think that
34:35 some people that have skin in the game
34:38 uh whether by any virtue of of what
34:40 they're doing in terms of their
34:41 professional life or their political
34:43 aspirations or that have been thrust
34:48 into it whether they chose to or not me
34:50 have an obligation to say I find that
34:52 there are more that I have more in
34:54 common I'm positive that I have more in
34:57 common with Shawn Ryan who's considered by
34:58 by
35:01 whoever incorrectly
35:06 as a mega influencer than I do um than I
35:07 than I don't have in common with them.
35:10 >> Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. I
35:10 think that uh
35:13 >> I I think I just [ __ ] you over. [laughter]
35:14 [laughter]
35:17 >> I think there's a chance upon on the
35:19 edit that you're going to want to take
35:22 that part out. But um uh No, but I'm I'm
35:24 being serious. Is it
35:25 >> I think we all have a lot more in common
35:28 with each other than than than we don't.
35:31 and uh and so I'm I'm 100% with you on
35:34 that. And uh but you know, you got to
35:36 have a conversation to find out the
35:39 answer. And uh people aren't doing that. So
35:40 So
35:45 >> but um well, Hunter, I want to do a a
35:50 life expose on you and um starting from
35:52 birth all the way to now. And uh
35:54 obviously there'll be some tough
35:56 questions, but I think uh I think we
35:59 will hit every array of emotions out
36:01 there. I think we'll get some laughs,
36:04 some sadness, some happiness, some
36:06 anger, and uh I think it's going to make
36:09 a great interview. So once again, I just
36:10 I just want to say thank you for coming.
36:12 I' I've really been looking forward to
36:14 this. So thank you. [clears throat]
36:18 >> But um Me, too. But in other news,
36:21 >> if you see my beef with Dan Krenshaw,
36:22 he's going to sue me. Hunter,
36:23 >> I know he's
36:24 >> he's going to sue me.
36:24 >> I'm sorry, buddy.
36:26 >> But uh so
36:29 >> I would So you're a Yale educated
36:30 attorney. Yeah.
36:32 >> Can you give us a can you give us a
36:35 legal analysis breakdown of the Dan
36:37 Krenshaw lawsuit against Shawn Ryan?
36:39 >> Well, technically I've been disbarred,
36:40 so I have to
36:43 >> I saw that. [laughter] I I have to say
36:46 that it's very technically meaning I've
36:51 been disparred. So um uh uh look to be
36:56 serious about it. Is it um like
36:58 like
37:00 what are you even talking about? like
37:03 I've followed this and and uh it's the
37:05 same I don't know whether that these
37:09 people that are um uh become so high on
37:13 their own supply um uh think and the
37:16 people that um uh like their like the
37:20 the sucker fishes that attached to them
37:25 like these lawyers think that in any way
37:28 that sending you a [ __ ]
37:31 letter, demand letter was going to do
37:34 anything but make you say, "Fucking try
37:35 me." [laughter]
37:38 I mean, what the hell, man? I mean,
37:42 look, I I I there's a there's a bunch of
37:44 things that you could do. Like, number
37:48 one, it seems to me that you you you
37:50 potentially could sue him right now. >> Really?
37:51 >> Really?
37:53 >> Yes. And and that's for instance that's
37:55 what Michael Wolf did with uh the first
37:58 lady is that she continued to threaten
37:59 him and continue to threaten him like
38:01 they threatened me. And my response to
38:03 that was bring it on. Like you want to
38:06 you want to go through a discovery
38:09 process with me in which I get to depose
38:12 you the president and every person that
38:14 you were associated with while you were
38:17 friends with Jeffrey Epstein. Like you
38:19 want to do that then I'm I'm willing I'm
38:20 willing to do that. I'm gonna need a
38:23 GoFundMe, but you know what I mean? But
38:25 I'm willing to do that. Um, and I never
38:27 heard from them again. Okay. And I
38:28 didn't say anything that Michael Wolf
38:30 didn't, but they continued to send
38:33 Michael Wolf uh letters.
38:35 Whatever you think about Michael Wolf is
38:39 that Michael Wolf um basically said um
38:41 uh is that
38:44 threatening someone with a lawsuit that
38:49 is engaged in um uh in protected speech,
38:52 particularly when who you're speaking
38:53 about is a sitting United States
38:54 congressman, which basically you can say
38:56 whatever the [ __ ] you want about him, no
38:58 matter what. That's that's America. [laughter]
38:59 [laughter]
39:02 You know what I mean? Seriously. is that
39:06 it's called abuse of process and and
39:08 potentially torsious interference,
39:10 meaning that he's interfering, he's
39:11 attempting to interfere with your
39:16 business. So, but if you if if you if
39:19 you want to engage him, you could um uh
39:21 potentially, and I'm not positive, but
39:24 preemptive uh you know, preemptively sue
39:27 him for [ __ ] with you. and and and
39:33 uh and it seems to me that uh I I I saw
39:35 his response and I don't know didn't
39:38 crunch off or anything. I think Dan had
39:38 a bad night that
39:40 >> Oh, he really had a bad night. And I
39:42 don't get it. Like what? Like if you're
39:44 going to if you're going to respond
39:46 after you made a threat of a lawsuit,
39:48 then you file the lawsuit if you truly
39:50 believe that you want to go through the
39:53 process of sitting down for a you know,
39:55 however many day deposition and going
39:57 through every stock trade that you've
39:59 made since you became a United States
40:01 congressman and the information that you
40:04 may have received or not received as it
40:05 related to the companies whose stock
40:08 you're trading. along with what you said
40:10 to every member of SEAL team 6 and what
40:12 they said back to you when you said I've
40:15 been talking to um you know my boys at
40:18 six. It's like I'll tell you what I I
40:21 don't see how any reasonable per person
40:23 that would receive a text like that
40:26 would not think like like are you
40:27 threatening me? >> Mhm.
40:28 >> Mhm.
40:30 >> And I don't know anybody that reasonable
40:31 and I certainly know that there's not a
40:33 jury in the world that wouldn't um
40:34 wouldn't believe that. So the notion
40:37 that that is unreasonable for you to
40:39 come to that conclusion or thought that
40:42 maybe that's what he was trying to say and
40:43 and
40:48 anyway it's just a um uh number
40:50 one you got nothing to worry about but
40:52 it may be an opportunity for you also.
40:53 That's good to hear.
40:55 >> It's kind of kind of the way that I view
40:56 these things. I
40:58 >> I don't really enjoy legal warfare but I
41:01 got to be honest this one you know it's
41:03 like oh no it's horrible. Let's do the
41:07 discovery, Dan. I would I would love to
41:09 dive into your financial history as a congressman.
41:10 congressman. >> Yeah.
41:11 >> Yeah.
41:12 >> Yeah. You know,
41:13 >> and it's much more, by the way, and it's
41:15 much broader than that. >> Okay.
41:16 >> Okay.
41:18 >> I had a guy that
41:20 >> he's also like actively threatening to
41:22 kill people online. >> Yeah.
41:22 >> Yeah.
41:24 >> Like he threatened to kill or he's like,
41:26 "If I ever see Tucker, I'll kill him." I
41:27 saw that. And then he said, >> "Yeah,
41:27 >> "Yeah,
41:29 >> I'm not joking."
41:32 >> No, I know. So why wouldn't I take but
41:34 uh I don't know see that's the thing
41:37 that I don't get is um
41:40 uh anyway you know the broader picture
41:42 is this license that people think that
41:43 they have particularly in Congress to be
41:45 to hide behind the speech and debate
41:47 clause. Now the fact of the matter is is
41:50 if he had been smart he should have gone
41:52 to the floor of the house you the the
41:55 House of Representatives and he could
41:56 have talked about you as much as he
42:00 wanted to. Um uh but the idea that he
42:02 would send you a private DM with that,
42:04 you know, with with that kind of like
42:07 oblique or direct threat, who knows?
42:08 >> Boys at six.
42:11 >> Yeah, exactly. I mean
42:15 >> like I don't have any um uh I don't have
42:19 any insight into your world um other
42:22 than having watched you having watched
42:26 the the uh the men uh you know I just
42:29 watched that interview with Jaco and um
42:32 and a number of others that you have um
42:35 interviewed many of which are you know
42:38 are right to the till of the hunt but
42:41 you don't come I come away with the
42:44 impression of this is the one thing that
42:49 they care about more than anything is uh
42:52 is are their the bond that they have
42:54 with each that you guys have with each other
42:54 other
42:58 >> and like a code of loyalty that that
43:01 means and I can't imagine anyone would
43:05 have been um too impressed with somebody
43:07 saying that
43:09 uh publicly or privately.
43:11 to the member and not just go like,
43:14 well, that is really weak sauce, man.
43:16 >> And I maybe I'm maybe I'm I'm way
43:18 reading way too much into anything.
43:20 >> I think I think
43:22 >> Are you familiar with Poly Market?
43:24 >> I only from listen
43:26 >> Yeah. I mean, I literally from listening
43:27 to some of
43:29 >> prediction prediction market,
43:31 >> they they only give they actually did a
43:34 a thing on this. They only give Dan a 9%
43:38 chance that he actually sues me. So, [laughter]
43:38 [laughter]
43:41 I think I mean we're both we're both we
43:44 both battled addiction, right? I've
43:45 spent many of nights where I've made
43:47 shitty decisions and woken up the next
43:49 morning going, [sighs]
43:50 >> "Oh, fuck."
43:50 >> By the way,
43:52 >> I think Dan did that two nights in a row.
43:52 row.
43:55 >> Yeah, I By the way, I really do too,
43:56 >> you know.
43:58 >> You know, and so in that sense, I I have
44:00 a uh
44:03 I have a little bit of a like
44:05 >> maybe somebody in his life.
44:07 >> Yeah. You know, uh,
44:09 >> I feel bad for him, too. I hope Dan can
44:11 put the bottle down. I mean, he can't
44:13 even do international travel right now
44:14 cuz he's such a [ __ ] lush.
44:15 >> Oh, is that true?
44:18 >> It's really bad. It's really bad.
44:20 >> No, he's not allowed. He's not allowed
44:23 to travel suits I'm involved in right
44:25 now. [laughter]
44:27 You're sucking me into another one. I
44:28 can't afford it, man.
44:30 >> No, it's it's real. It's a real thing.
44:31 >> It's a real thing. Okay. Okay.
44:34 >> Maybe you'll get a shirt, too. We'll see
44:38 each other. Exactly. I sued a guy, okay?
44:39 You know, Patrick Burn, the overstock guy.
44:39 guy. >> Uhhuh.
44:40 >> Uhhuh.
44:44 >> Okay. He um he wrote this thing and said
44:47 that um I was the person responsible for
44:49 releasing the $8 billion in sanctioned
44:52 Iranian money that was being held by the
44:55 South Koreans and I took a 10% fee for
44:59 doing so and put it in um uh you know,
45:01 bank accounts around the world. And that
45:04 was the money that was used to fund
45:07 Hamas's attack on Israel on October 7th,
45:10 resulting in the death of,400 people.
45:11 >> You know how many things people have
45:14 said about me that are like I mean on
45:16 your show, by the way. [laughter]
45:17 >> I'm aware of
45:19 >> I know you are, [ __ ]
45:24 >> Yeah, I know. Um and and he so he says
45:29 this uh craziness, okay? And I'm like I
45:30 said to one of my lawyers I was like
45:34 just just please can we like can someone
45:36 help me sue this guy and anyway I found
45:38 somebody to do it and uh contingency
45:41 incredible lawyer Dickarian and we went
45:42 to and he said I'm going to get him and
45:44 I'm going to go after him and this is
45:46 burn he goes on all these shows and he
45:48 says he has tapes and he has the FBI
45:51 informant and he has the the former DEA
45:54 agent and he's got the the the Iranian
45:58 spy who he's going to bring and he
46:00 doesn't even show up to the trial. He
46:02 refuses to come to the trial. He fires
46:03 all his lawyers the day before we're
46:06 supposed to begin uh picking a jury. He
46:08 doesn't produce anything. Okay? He
46:10 literally doesn't produce anything. A
46:12 default judgment is filed against him.
46:15 And um uh but now I'm I'm like 2 years
46:18 into this. I mean, it's been since
46:19 >> Are you serious?
46:20 >> Two years into this and we still don't
46:24 have a full thing. And like and the
46:25 court is going to decide about punitive
46:27 damages. And so in between the time he
46:29 gets the default judgment and the courts
46:32 decide he goes back on Alex Jones and
46:34 repeats the entire thing over
46:36 >> are you serious all over again. Yeah.
46:38 They just do this stuff with impunity.
46:39 But the whole reason I tell this story
46:44 is this is your instinct is right. It's
46:47 awful. Litigation sucks. I've been I
46:50 look I've been tied up
46:56 in in criminal and civil and in courts
46:59 and you know I mean like I I I got you I
47:02 don't know 14 15 million dollars in debt
47:04 that I have no idea that I'm going to be
47:07 able to pay off. I I have uh you know I
47:11 mean millions of dollars in debt um uh
47:14 that you know nobody's riding to the
47:16 rescue for Hunter Biden. My dad, you
47:18 know, entered the the presidency as the
47:20 poorest man to ever take the office and
47:22 he left the presidency the, you know,
47:24 not poorest, I mean, which he's fine,
47:26 but, you know, like he has no we have no
47:28 generational wealth. I don't have any,
47:30 you know, despite what these guys say,
47:32 like there's no billions of dollars
47:34 buried underneath my dad's house in, you
47:38 know, Delaware. And so in order what I
47:42 think these people rely on is they are
47:46 so uh they either have the money and
47:48 they just hire people to go harass
47:51 people through the legal process like
47:53 Trump does that a lot. I mean that's for
47:58 real. Um and uh or um uh or they just
48:02 don't care. And because litigation, even
48:04 civil civil litigation like what you're
48:06 talking about, it just overwhelms your life.
48:07 life. >> Mhm.
48:07 >> Mhm.
48:09 >> I mean, the depositions that you have to
48:10 sit through and to prepare for and then
48:12 you got to go through, you know, if
48:13 you're suing for damages and you got to
48:16 sit down with a psychologist of their
48:17 choice to go through your entire life
48:20 and, you know, I mean, just a it puts it
48:21 puts you in a really uncomfortable
48:26 position. And then you're dependent upon
48:28 the idea that your lawyers are going to
48:30 have uh make, you know, be able to make
48:32 it through the process, the motions
48:35 process and the motions practice and you
48:38 know and all and and 3 years later you
48:39 wake up and you go what the [ __ ] did I
48:43 do this for? you know, and so my
48:54 I think that you got the response
48:56 um uh
48:59 uh I think you won already. Okay. And I
49:00 know that you didn't enter this with the
49:02 intention of winning anything. [clears throat]
49:02 [clears throat]
49:05 is that you were stating a fact based
49:06 upon your own personal experience and
49:08 obviously the personal experience of
49:09 some of the people in the community that
49:11 you come from that have a real disdain
49:12 for this guy. >> Mhm.
49:13 >> Mhm.
49:14 >> And the way that they treated um they
49:16 were treated by him
49:18 >> um in his position of authority.
49:22 >> And so you speak a a truth what you
49:24 believe to be a truth or ask a question
49:26 that's worthy of asking about anybody
49:28 that is in position of power which is
49:31 the right of every American to do. And
49:35 you do that and his response is to send
49:37 you a letter from his lawyers
49:40 to tell you he's talking to his boys at
49:42 six and then to get on and saying, you
49:44 know, that you're a liar and this and
49:46 that and so we'll just let it go now
49:48 >> and challenge me to an interview. >> Yeah.
49:48 >> Yeah.
49:50 >> The funny thing is Hunter,
49:53 >> I invited him on the [ __ ] show in the
49:55 original thing and then after that he
49:57 challenges me to an interview. It's like,
49:57 like,
49:59 >> well Dan, you didn't really have to
50:01 challenge me. I know you feel tough
50:03 doing it. I'm sure you feel real tough
50:05 doing it in front of your,
50:06 >> you know, six followers that aren't
50:09 bashing you right now, but
50:10 >> I already [ __ ] invited you, so you
50:12 didn't have to do that.
50:14 >> Yeah, exactly. And I mean it that's my
50:16 point is that if he thought that there
50:19 was a value in him actually sitting down
50:22 with you, then he can get on a plane
50:24 like I did, fly his ass into Nashville
50:26 and come to the studio and sit down with
50:30 you, you know. And so I don't think
50:32 that's going to happen though, Sean.
50:33 >> We'll see.
50:35 >> Man, I [ __ ] hope it does.
50:36 >> I'm just taking bets. We'll have to look
50:38 at Poly Market after this to
50:39 >> I know, right? I think they're going to
50:41 do another one. I'll bet they do another
50:42 one. Well, well, actually, what what
50:44 we're going to really I want to look at
50:47 is Poly Market right now of whether or
50:48 not you're going to get cancelled after
50:50 you air this interview with me. [laughter]
50:52 [laughter]
50:53 >> I'll bet the answer's no.
50:54 >> No, I bet you.
50:57 >> But, uh, all right, Hunter, I want to
50:59 get in I want to get into your story.
51:01 So, everybody starts with an
51:04 introduction. Hunter Biden, son of the
51:07 46th president of the United States, Joe
51:10 Biden, and the late Nelia Biden. And the
51:13 anniversary of her death is tomorrow.
51:15 That happened two days.
51:16 >> 53 years ago.
51:17 >> Yep, that's right.
51:18 >> I'm really sorry, man. >> Yeah.
51:18 >> Yeah.
51:22 >> And um survived a car accident in 1972
51:24 that killed your mother and babysitter.
51:26 Worked as a lawyer, businessman,
51:28 lobbyist, and naval officer. A
51:30 recovering drug addict who's been sober
51:33 for over 6 years. Like I said earlier, congratulations.
51:33 congratulations.
51:34 >> Thanks, man.
51:38 >> You've turned art as a form of into a
51:40 form of therapy and recovery from
51:42 addiction. Author of the best-selling
51:44 memoir, Beautiful Things, happily
51:46 married to Melissa, and you're a father
51:49 of five children. [clears throat]
51:50 You have lived one of the most
51:53 scrutinized, polarizing, and chaotic
51:57 American lives of the last decade. So,
52:00 once again, welcome to the show. And uh
52:03 just a couple of things to crank out.
52:05 Everybody gets a gift.
52:07 >> Mention a couple gifts.
52:09 >> So those are Vigilance League gummy
52:11 bears made here in the USA. >> Yeah.
52:11 >> Yeah.
52:13 >> Up in Michigan.
52:15 >> Legal in all 50 states. So you're not
52:16 going to >> Yeah.
52:16 >> Yeah.
52:19 >> sabotage your sobriety. [laughter] But
52:21 uh and then I got
52:23 >> What are these? Are these What What's
52:26 the What's the the the principal
52:27 ingredient in these?
52:29 >> It's just sugar. Just literally just
52:31 sugar. Yeah. I was going to do CBD
52:34 gummies cuz I have sleep problems. >> Yeah.
52:34 >> Yeah.
52:35 >> And then my marketer was like, "You're
52:37 going to get sued for catering CBD to
52:38 kids and gummy bears." And I said,
52:40 "Fine, we'll just do [ __ ]
52:41 >> I'm all for sugar, man."
52:41 >> Right on.
52:42 >> Yeah. Thank you.
52:47 >> And then I got you something else.
52:49 And this is
52:52 So I know you grew up Catholic.
52:54 >> I don't know where you stand today, but
52:57 um that is from one of my friends. a
52:59 really good friend of mine over at Seal
53:03 Team 6 uh was at Seal Team 6 and um he
53:06 has since retired and he calls those the
53:07 Warriors rosary.
53:09 >> I love this. Thank you very much.
53:09 >> You're welcome.
53:11 >> Means the world to me for real.
53:13 >> You're welcome. And uh I carry one of
53:15 those around with me everywhere for
53:17 protection. In fact, mine's in my pocket
53:18 right now. So,
53:20 >> thank you. My dad wears one on on his uh
53:22 on his wrist. No kidding.
53:24 >> Yeah, it's always
53:25 >> right on, man.
53:27 >> Um this means a lot to me. I brought you
53:30 a gift. Um, it's in the um, it's in the
53:32 other room, but uh, I'll show you at the break.
53:32 break. >> Perfect.
53:33 >> Perfect.
53:35 >> Perfect meaning.
53:36 >> Um, but [clears throat] I really really
53:38 appreciate this. It's really meaningful.
53:39 Thank you very much.
53:39 >> You're welcome. >> Yeah.
53:40 >> Yeah.
53:42 >> And then the last thing before we get
53:44 into it, I have a Patreon account. It's
53:46 a subscription account and uh, it's
53:48 turned into one hell of a community. [sighs]
53:49 [sighs]
53:51 And so what do I I I offer them the
53:53 opportunity to ask every single guest a
53:56 question. And this is from Ian Lane.
53:58 You've spoken openly about addiction,
54:00 loss, and recovery while living under
54:02 intense public scrutiny. How do you
54:05 reconcile taking personal responsibility
54:07 for your actions while also resisting
54:10 being reduced to your worst moments? >> Yeah.
54:12 >> Yeah.
54:14 You know, I was talking to some of you
54:18 guys before we came in here and um
54:21 one of the things that I was uh I think
54:30 people would be the most surprised about
54:35 me is that the past six years of my life
54:39 since I got clean and sober,
54:41 those years in which all of this
54:44 scrutiny me um I mean descended upon me
54:47 like you know people say
54:49 you know you must be used to this your
54:50 dad's been in politics his whole life
54:52 there's nothing nothing that I've ever
54:54 experienced or I know anybody else
54:55 that's ever experienced I mean I was on
54:57 the I think the cover of the New York
54:59 Post more times in one year than anybody
55:00 in the history of the paper going back
55:03 to like 1780 and none of it was good.
55:05 >> Are you serious? I didn't know that. At
55:10 one point, uh, the New York Post was,
55:13 uh, was publishing, uh, like 2.5
55:15 articles about me a day. >> Wow.
55:16 >> Wow.
55:18 >> For like
55:20 months, months, months long period of
55:23 time. And, um, and again, none of it was
55:24 good. Then you Daily Mail and you had
55:27 the whole kind of Right.
55:31 Anyway, my point being is this is that
55:34 there's scrutiny and then there's just like
55:36 like
55:38 complete and utter like you know living
55:43 in a in a a glass house naked um uh you
55:47 know in with the lights on 24/7
55:49 and and that's what it was like. And so
55:52 it forced me to make a decision
55:54 particularly in early recovery which was this
55:57 this
56:00 when I woke up in the morning do I want
56:03 to live or do I want to die
56:08 and when you choose to live it's um uh
56:10 it's not that you realize you're making
56:13 the choice not on your terms on life's
56:16 terms I choose to live on life's terms
56:19 whatever comes my Okay. Is I got to make
56:22 a choice because and when I say live or
56:25 die, I mean this is that I still am
56:27 absolutely certain that if I touch a
56:30 drink or a drug, I'm dead. It's a matter
56:32 of life and death for me. Now, I think
56:35 that that that that
56:37 uh you can relapse and you can people
56:38 have been able to, but I don't think
56:42 that I can. And um and so I was given
56:46 that gift of utter complete desperation
56:51 to remain clean and sober. Um and
56:54 and I you've been through it and that's
56:57 a beautiful thing to have.
57:00 And the other thing that it did for me
57:04 is it forced me on a daily basis
57:16 I don't know. I mean, I I talk about it
57:19 in my in in my book and
57:22 and uh but it
57:25 I was making a decision on a daily basis
57:27 to kill myself, but it was the coward's way.
57:29 way.
57:30 >> How would you have done it?
57:33 >> Well, drinking and drugging to the
57:34 degree that I was. I was drinking a, you
57:36 know, a handle of vodka a day. >> Mhm.
57:36 >> Mhm.
57:38 >> I mean, which is worse than, you know,
57:40 the the amount of crack that I was
57:42 smoking. the the the problem with the
57:44 crack is the positions that you put put
57:46 you in in order to get it. That was the
57:48 most dangerous part about the crack. The
57:50 most dangerous part to my physical body
57:53 was was alcohol by far and away in terms
57:57 of the way in which um it impacts every
58:00 organ in your body. Um
58:02 and uh you know it's the only drug that
58:05 you can die from other than benzo for um
58:11 withdrawing from and um and so uh
58:13 that's what I was doing to myself and
58:17 when I got uh
58:25 accepted the miracle of
58:26 believing that there's something greater
58:28 than myself
58:32 uh that could help me uh get clean and sober.
58:34 sober. Um
58:37 Um
58:40 uh I lived in in in with that
58:42 realization at the front of my brain
58:44 every every morning that I woke up and
58:49 still do and still do. So despite the
58:51 perspective that anyone would have from
58:54 the outside world uh understandably
58:58 whether you love me or you hate me um
59:01 I I would suggest if you hate me you
59:03 don't know me get to know me then you
59:06 can hate me. Um but uh regardless is
59:10 [clears throat] that it has been um the
59:12 last 6 and 1/2 years despite everything
59:16 that has gone on has uh been uh the most
59:20 incredibly difficult but fulfilling
59:26 um uh period of my life. Yeah. I I I I feel
59:33 I know um
59:35 I know myself better than I've ever
59:39 known myself in my my whole life now and
59:42 I'm still learning. But I feel more
59:44 comfortable in my skin today than I've
59:47 ever felt in my skin.
59:48 >> Good for you.
59:52 >> Good for you, man. man, just, you
59:54 [clears throat] know, doing the math and
59:57 thinking about
60:00 the last six years, you know, of what what what what we've what what we've
60:03 what what what we've what what we've been through in this country and then to
60:05 been through in this country and then to think about what what what you have been
60:08 think about what what what you have been through in your first six years of
60:10 through in your first six years of sobriety. I mean, holy [ __ ] dude. That
60:13 sobriety. I mean, holy [ __ ] dude. That is your dad's campaign. Yeah.
60:15 is your dad's campaign. Yeah. >> Four years in the White House and then
60:17 >> Four years in the White House and then the first year of the Trump
60:19 the first year of the Trump administration. I mean, wow.
60:22 administration. I mean, wow. [clears throat]
60:23 [clears throat] That's a lot to go through for your
60:25 That's a lot to go through for your first six [ __ ] years of sobriety.
60:27 first six [ __ ] years of sobriety. >> Yeah.
60:27 >> Yeah. >> Congratulations. I appreciate it, man.
60:30 >> Congratulations. I appreciate it, man. I'm I'm really, you know, I have to say
60:34 I'm I'm really, you know, I have to say I know that I haven't handled it all.
60:37 I know that I haven't handled it all. Uh,
60:39 Uh, you know, I'm I'm I'm
60:46 by no stretch of any imagination remotely um uh perfect [laughter]
60:50 remotely um uh perfect [laughter] to say the least. But I am really proud
60:53 to say the least. But I am really proud of of uh of at least that. Good. I'm
60:57 of of uh of at least that. Good. I'm proud of my um I'm proud of my recovery.
61:00 proud of my um I'm proud of my recovery. Good. Should be. Yeah. [sighs]
61:04 Good. Should be. Yeah. [sighs] >> All right, Hunter. Are you ready?
61:05 >> All right, Hunter. Are you ready? >> I'm ready, man. Where did you grow up?
61:10 >> I'm ready, man. Where did you grow up? >> I grew up in Wilmington, Delaware. Um,
61:14 >> I grew up in Wilmington, Delaware. Um, you know, Wilmington is a um is about 30
61:17 you know, Wilmington is a um is about 30 minutes outside of Philadelphia, south
61:19 minutes outside of Philadelphia, south of Philly. And uh Delaware is uh as
61:24 of Philly. And uh Delaware is uh as everybody knows, a really small state.
61:26 everybody knows, a really small state. And um
61:29 And um when my my dad was 29 years old, he uh
61:34 when my my dad was 29 years old, he uh he ran against a uh a three-term
61:37 he ran against a uh a three-term incumbent uh senator guy named Caleb
61:41 incumbent uh senator guy named Caleb Bogs who then became a friend of my
61:43 Bogs who then became a friend of my dad's after. But uh that nobody thought
61:46 dad's after. But uh that nobody thought that he would win. He was 29. He was too
61:49 that he would win. He was 29. He was too young to be sworn in when he was elected
61:52 young to be sworn in when he was elected and it was 1972 and he he won by a few
61:56 and it was 1972 and he he won by a few thousand votes and he became the
61:58 thousand votes and he became the youngest ever elected um member of the
62:01 youngest ever elected um member of the United States Senate that wasn't
62:02 United States Senate that wasn't appointed as they were um before like
62:05 appointed as they were um before like 1935 and um
62:09 1935 and um and uh despite the fact that my dad was
62:13 and uh despite the fact that my dad was a a United States senator, you know, uh
62:16 a a United States senator, you know, uh Delaware is a really small state and
62:18 Delaware is a really small state and when My mom and my sister were killed in
62:20 when My mom and my sister were killed in that accident. Uh my brother and I were
62:22 that accident. Uh my brother and I were in the back seat and um and it's
62:26 in the back seat and um and it's amazing. I just got a letter from uh
62:30 amazing. I just got a letter from uh someone
62:32 someone that said the woman and I literally just
62:35 that said the woman and I literally just got it and when I was on I just saw it
62:38 got it and when I was on I just saw it for the first time on the plane. a woman
62:39 for the first time on the plane. a woman and I didn't even know this story
62:42 and I didn't even know this story that was on um
62:46 that was on um she was an offduty nurse
62:49 she was an offduty nurse and she uh and she was she drove by the
62:53 and she uh and she was she drove by the scene in which we got uh struck by a
62:56 scene in which we got uh struck by a tractor trailer that was coming down a
62:58 tractor trailer that was coming down a hill on this like four lane road or
63:00 hill on this like four lane road or two-lane road and my mom pulled out into
63:02 two-lane road and my mom pulled out into the intersection I guess um
63:06 the intersection I guess um and
63:08 and Um,
63:10 Um, and
63:12 and we, Bo and I were trapped in the car.
63:14 we, Bo and I were trapped in the car. And according to this note that I just
63:16 And according to this note that I just got, everybody assumed, just thought
63:19 got, everybody assumed, just thought that we were dead.
63:21 that we were dead. And so we were in the car for a extended
63:24 And so we were in the car for a extended period of time. And the nurse came onto
63:27 period of time. And the nurse came onto the scene. She just was passing by. And
63:31 the scene. She just was passing by. And she's the one that reached in and gave
63:33 she's the one that reached in and gave us the first aid to save our lives.
63:36 us the first aid to save our lives. Whoa. And I'd never met her.
63:38 Whoa. And I'd never met her. And you just got a letter from just got
63:40 And you just got a letter from just got a letter from one of her family's
63:41 a letter from one of her family's members saying that she just passed away
63:43 members saying that she just passed away and that she thought that I would want
63:45 and that she thought that I would want to know. Ain't that amazing?
63:47 to know. Ain't that amazing? >> Wow.
63:50 >> Wow. Wow.
63:51 Wow. >> Yeah.
63:53 >> Yeah. It's amazing.
63:55 It's amazing. And um that literally I only tell the
63:59 And um that literally I only tell the story because that uh it was a really
64:02 story because that uh it was a really really violent and horrific
64:04 really violent and horrific um event. My brother ended up in the
64:07 um event. My brother ended up in the hospital.
64:09 hospital. Both of us ended up in the hospital for
64:10 Both of us ended up in the hospital for extended period of time. My biggest
64:12 extended period of time. My biggest issue was I had um serious brain trauma
64:15 issue was I had um serious brain trauma and my brother was basically in a cast a
64:18 and my brother was basically in a cast a body cast for you know intraction for a
64:21 body cast for you know intraction for a long time. [ __ ]
64:22 long time. [ __ ] >> And um
64:25 >> And um and uh uh but the amazing part was is
64:29 and uh uh but the amazing part was is that the Delaware is small state. I mean
64:33 that the Delaware is small state. I mean the state adopted us, you know, they I
64:37 the state adopted us, you know, they I mean really like I have more aunts and
64:40 mean really like I have more aunts and uncles that I grew up with that I mean
64:43 uncles that I grew up with that I mean uh and in that respect um
64:48 uh and in that respect um you know
64:51 you know my dad came from a normal middle-ass
64:53 my dad came from a normal middle-ass family and he entered the United States
64:57 family and he entered the United States Senate a normal middle class guy and you
65:01 Senate a normal middle class guy and you know I that he made a um he made a vow
65:06 know I that he made a um he made a vow in 1972 because it was right prior to
65:09 in 1972 because it was right prior to the beginning of Watergate and you had
65:11 the beginning of Watergate and you had Spiragno and he made a he he made a
65:13 Spiragno and he made a he he made a pledge that he would never own a stock
65:15 pledge that he would never own a stock or a bond and he hasn't other than
65:18 or a bond and he hasn't other than through whatever retirement account that
65:20 through whatever retirement account that he has with the United States
65:21 he has with the United States government.
65:22 government. >> Wow. and he's goddamn mother [laughter]
65:26 >> Wow. and he's goddamn mother [laughter] because I have I have some legal bills
65:28 because I have I have some legal bills that I could use some of this bond.
65:32 that I could use some of this bond. But [clears throat] my point was is
65:34 But [clears throat] my point was is that, you know, uh, despite the fact
65:38 that, you know, uh, despite the fact that my dad was a United States senator
65:39 that my dad was a United States senator my whole life, Delaware is a really
65:41 my whole life, Delaware is a really small place. And, um, so, you know, if I
65:45 small place. And, um, so, you know, if I got pulled over for speeding, my brother
65:47 got pulled over for speeding, my brother and I on our way to school, you know, it
65:49 and I on our way to school, you know, it wasn't like, oh, it was like your dad,
65:52 wasn't like, oh, it was like your dad, your dad, Joe's going to kick your
65:53 your dad, Joe's going to kick your asses. You know what I mean? That like
65:55 asses. You know what I mean? That like that was kind of the way in which we
65:56 that was kind of the way in which we grew up because my dad commuted every
65:58 grew up because my dad commuted every day. He decided that um my aunt moved in
66:02 day. He decided that um my aunt moved in into the house and my uncle my uncle
66:05 into the house and my uncle my uncle built a apartment above the little
66:07 built a apartment above the little garage that we had and he moved in for a
66:10 garage that we had and he moved in for a period of time and uh we spent almost
66:13 period of time and uh we spent almost every other day at least with my
66:15 every other day at least with my grandparents. Um and uh so we were
66:19 grandparents. Um and uh so we were raised and then we got remarried when my
66:20 raised and then we got remarried when my when I was
66:22 when I was uh seven, Bo was eight. And um
66:27 uh seven, Bo was eight. And um and uh so I had pretty normal life, you
66:29 and uh so I had pretty normal life, you know. Um and out of that tragedy, I kind
66:32 know. Um and out of that tragedy, I kind of gained a a
66:37 of gained a a whole kind of extended family that maybe
66:40 whole kind of extended family that maybe I wouldn't have otherwise. It was a
66:42 I wouldn't have otherwise. It was a beautiful thing.
66:43 beautiful thing. >> Yeah.
66:43 >> Yeah. >> Yeah. and my relationship with my
66:45 >> Yeah. and my relationship with my brother, you know, I I literally I think
66:48 brother, you know, I I literally I think I one way or another except when he was
66:51 I one way or another except when he was in Iraq for a year to talk to him, my
66:53 in Iraq for a year to talk to him, my brother, at least once a day.
66:55 brother, at least once a day. >> Really?
66:55 >> Really? >> Yeah. We were
66:58 >> Yeah. We were um inseparable and we used to fight and
67:02 um inseparable and we used to fight and beat the [ __ ] out of each other like
67:03 beat the [ __ ] out of each other like brothers do. But yeah. Yeah. It was the
67:07 brothers do. But yeah. Yeah. It was the closest
67:09 closest thing I had in the world.
67:11 thing I had in the world. >> What kind of stuff were you into as a
67:12 >> What kind of stuff were you into as a kid?
67:13 kid? sports, you know,
67:15 sports, you know, >> sports.
67:15 >> sports. >> Yeah.
67:16 >> Yeah. >> What kind of sports?
67:17 >> What kind of sports? >> I played football, but you know, when I
67:19 >> I played football, but you know, when I was much younger, um, you know, I played
67:21 was much younger, um, you know, I played everything. But then in high school,
67:24 everything. But then in high school, football. Yeah.
67:27 football. Yeah. But we did everything. You know what I
67:28 But we did everything. You know what I mean? I mean, we spent we How How old
67:31 mean? I mean, we spent we How How old are you?
67:32 are you? >> 43.
67:33 >> 43. >> Yeah. So, I'm 55. So, you you're the
67:35 >> Yeah. So, I'm 55. So, you you're the tail end of I mean, you're actually No,
67:37 tail end of I mean, you're actually No, you're not. But like we spend our lives
67:39 you're not. But like we spend our lives outside like from you know
67:42 outside like from you know the rule was when you know when the
67:44 the rule was when you know when the street lights went on then you had to
67:46 street lights went on then you had to come in.
67:46 come in. >> Yeah.
67:47 >> Yeah. >> And so we just literally and whether it
67:49 >> And so we just literally and whether it was you know
67:51 was you know summer winter it didn't matter. We spent
67:53 summer winter it didn't matter. We spent our entire time outside on BMXes and
67:57 our entire time outside on BMXes and skateboards and you know in the pond
67:59 skateboards and you know in the pond behind the house and you know all we did
68:02 behind the house and you know all we did was you know shoot guns at each other.
68:05 was you know shoot guns at each other. >> Nice.
68:06 >> Nice. >> Yeah. [clears throat]
68:07 >> Yeah. [clears throat] What uh I mean
68:10 What uh I mean what's it like growing up in in in
68:13 what's it like growing up in in in politics in the in the political?
68:15 politics in the in the political? >> That's what I'm trying to say is that
68:17 >> That's what I'm trying to say is that for us I didn't grow up in DC.
68:19 for us I didn't grow up in DC. >> Yeah. you know,
68:22 >> Yeah. you know, uh, my dad never he never had I never
68:25 uh, my dad never he never had I never experienced that, you know, DC insider.
68:28 experienced that, you know, DC insider. And that's maybe why I have such an
68:30 And that's maybe why I have such an amazing disdain for the people that
68:32 amazing disdain for the people that continue to like, you know, one of the
68:33 continue to like, you know, one of the things that you realize about DC and
68:35 things that you realize about DC and about being the United States senator,
68:36 about being the United States senator, you know, in Congress is that there, you
68:40 you know, in Congress is that there, you know, there [clears throat] are a lot of
68:41 know, there [clears throat] are a lot of people that give the the true blood,
68:43 people that give the the true blood, sweat, and tears to become elected, but
68:45 sweat, and tears to become elected, but there's like a permanent power class in
68:48 there's like a permanent power class in DC that, and I'm not talking about like
68:51 DC that, and I'm not talking about like some shadow government or I mean,
68:53 some shadow government or I mean, they're identifiable people
68:55 they're identifiable people >> that go from administration to
68:56 >> that go from administration to administration that go from, you uh um
68:59 administration that go from, you uh um you know working from for you know one
69:02 you know working from for you know one think tank to another. Um, and my dad
69:05 think tank to another. Um, and my dad was never a part of that, you know, he,
69:08 was never a part of that, you know, he, you know, uh, uh, I mean, he came home
69:12 you know, uh, uh, I mean, he came home every night. Um, he famously hated to
69:14 every night. Um, he famously hated to fundra um, and he didn't need to fundra
69:17 fundra um, and he didn't need to fundra that much. Um, because, you know, come
69:20 that much. Um, because, you know, come from a state of, you know, just under a
69:21 from a state of, you know, just under a million people. And, um, and so in many
69:26 million people. And, um, and so in many respects, I get a very, very normal
69:28 respects, I get a very, very normal life. You know, I went to, you know, I
69:30 life. You know, I went to, you know, I went to a little Quaker school and then
69:32 went to a little Quaker school and then I went to St. Edmonds Academy and um you
69:34 I went to St. Edmonds Academy and um you I think I got more demerits than anyone
69:37 I think I got more demerits than anyone in the history according to somebody I
69:38 in the history according to somebody I just saw in the history of that school
69:42 just saw in the history of that school and I went to the you know the Catholic
69:43 and I went to the you know the Catholic high school that my dad went to and then
69:45 high school that my dad went to and then I went to Georgetown. I worked for the
69:46 I went to Georgetown. I worked for the Jesuit Volunteer Corps when I got out of
69:48 Jesuit Volunteer Corps when I got out of school. It's like domestic Peace Corp,
69:50 school. It's like domestic Peace Corp, you know what I mean? Um but in terms of
69:53 you know what I mean? Um but in terms of growing up in politics,
69:55 growing up in politics, the only thing that I can say is that we
69:57 the only thing that I can say is that we had an incredible um u uh we had a rule
70:03 had an incredible um u uh we had a rule which was it was based out of the the
70:06 which was it was based out of the the accident is that Bo and I could go with
70:09 accident is that Bo and I could go with my dad anywhere if we asked. Um, and we
70:14 my dad anywhere if we asked. Um, and we also knew enough not to take advantage
70:17 also knew enough not to take advantage of it to the degree that it was became
70:19 of it to the degree that it was became like to get out of, you know, the math
70:21 like to get out of, you know, the math test or something like that. But we did
70:23 test or something like that. But we did take advantage of it to the degree we
70:24 take advantage of it to the degree we went everywhere with my dad. That's
70:26 went everywhere with my dad. That's really me and my dad like everywhere.
70:29 really me and my dad like everywhere. And um, and the rule was, you know, you
70:33 And um, and the rule was, you know, you speak when you're spoken to
70:35 speak when you're spoken to >> and if you're going to sit in a meeting,
70:37 >> and if you're going to sit in a meeting, you you know, and when since we were 5
70:40 you you know, and when since we were 5 years old is you go up and you shake
70:42 years old is you go up and you shake somebody's hand. You say, "Um, nice to
70:43 somebody's hand. You say, "Um, nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you, ma'am."
70:45 meet you, sir. Nice to meet you, ma'am." And then if you want to stay in the
70:46 And then if you want to stay in the room, then you you know, you sit you you
70:49 room, then you you know, you sit you you sit and you sit quietly until you've
70:52 sit and you sit quietly until you've spoken to. And and we love to do that.
70:55 spoken to. And and we love to do that. >> Really?
70:56 >> Really? >> Yeah. I So we were, you know, we were
70:58 >> Yeah. I So we were, you know, we were with my dad.
71:00 with my dad. We went everywhere together. Everywhere.
71:03 We went everywhere together. Everywhere. And um
71:05 And um uh and what a gift, you know? I mean
71:08 uh and what a gift, you know? I mean like
71:10 like uh and so we would go get on a train
71:13 uh and so we would go get on a train with him and we'd go and we'd go and sit
71:15 with him and we'd go and we'd go and sit in the cloak room while he would go out
71:17 in the cloak room while he would go out and you know on the Senate floor but
71:19 and you know on the Senate floor but then we would um we would leave. So
71:21 then we would um we would leave. So unlike other United States senators and
71:24 unlike other United States senators and their families or Congress people that
71:26 their families or Congress people that move their families to DC and get a you
71:28 move their families to DC and get a you know house in Georgetown and go to you
71:31 know house in Georgetown and go to you know St. Albins's and you know go to all
71:34 know St. Albins's and you know go to all the same restaurants. Um, uh, Bo and I
71:38 the same restaurants. Um, uh, Bo and I like, you know, were a little shadow of
71:42 like, you know, were a little shadow of a of a United States Senator, but then
71:43 a of a United States Senator, but then we get back on the train and go back to
71:45 we get back on the train and go back to Delaware. And so, um, in that respect,
71:49 Delaware. And so, um, in that respect, it was a really unique kind of life and
71:53 it was a really unique kind of life and one that I I never didn't have. My dad's
71:56 one that I I never didn't have. My dad's so proud.
71:57 so proud. >> So, you were you were like really close
71:59 >> So, you were you were like really close with your dad. Oh,
72:02 with your dad. Oh, >> he was so proud. He, you know, the thing
72:04 >> he was so proud. He, you know, the thing he loved to do more than anything is
72:05 he loved to do more than anything is take people. He would literally he we we
72:08 take people. He would literally he we we would be walking in the Senate um and he
72:12 would be walking in the Senate um and he would run into some tourists from
72:19 Jiminy. I mean, like it didn't matter what state. And they and because they'd
72:21 what state. And they and because they'd be like asking somebody how to get
72:23 be like asking somebody how to get somewhere. He go, "Come on." And he
72:25 somewhere. He go, "Come on." And he would take them and he would take them
72:26 would take them and he would take them to all these corners of the capital and
72:29 to all these corners of the capital and show them like the you know the chambers
72:30 show them like the you know the chambers that nobody gets to go in. And if the
72:32 that nobody gets to go in. And if the Senate wasn't in session, he'd take them
72:34 Senate wasn't in session, he'd take them to the, you know, to the Senate floor
72:36 to the, you know, to the Senate floor and open other senators desk for him. It
72:39 and open other senators desk for him. It just be some like re Republican, you
72:43 just be some like re Republican, you know, uh, uh, you know, tourist from,
72:46 know, uh, uh, you know, tourist from, uh, from, you know, De Moines or, you
72:48 uh, from, you know, De Moines or, you know, or, you know, uh, Omaha. I mean,
72:51 know, or, you know, uh, Omaha. I mean, literally. And, um, and I love that with
72:55 literally. And, um, and I love that with my dad. He just so proud. He knew every
72:57 my dad. He just so proud. He knew every story of every, you know, of every uh of
73:02 story of every, you know, of every uh of every great person that had come before
73:05 every great person that had come before him. And and and I got to sit, you know,
73:08 him. And and and I got to sit, you know, uh spent a a lot of time with people
73:11 uh spent a a lot of time with people that of names that nobody would
73:13 that of names that nobody would remember, but they were kind of like our
73:15 remember, but they were kind of like our babysitters to Bo and I. Um um and
73:18 babysitters to Bo and I. Um um and people that would would uh kind of be
73:22 people that would would uh kind of be shocked in terms of the politics. Almost
73:24 shocked in terms of the politics. Almost all of them. Not all of them, but great
73:26 all of them. Not all of them, but great deal of them Republicans. Very
73:28 deal of them Republicans. Very interesting. Conservative Republicans. I
73:30 interesting. Conservative Republicans. I mean, I I suggest if you want to read
73:32 mean, I I suggest if you want to read something about the way in which my dad
73:34 something about the way in which my dad served as United States senator, go read
73:36 served as United States senator, go read his eulogy for Strom Thurman.
73:39 his eulogy for Strom Thurman. >> Okay? And um for whoever listening to
73:43 >> Okay? And um for whoever listening to this is Trump Thurman, you know, started
73:45 this is Trump Thurman, you know, started the Dixier Party because he broke from
73:48 the Dixier Party because he broke from the Democratic Party based upon their um
73:52 the Democratic Party based upon their um uh
73:53 uh uh position on civil rights and on the
73:56 uh position on civil rights and on the Voting Rights Act. And over a very very
73:59 Voting Rights Act. And over a very very long period of time, uh St. up there and
74:04 long period of time, uh St. up there and very much changed. But he had he led a
74:07 very much changed. But he had he led a career that that was incredibly um
74:10 career that that was incredibly um divisive as relates. But my dad um was
74:14 divisive as relates. But my dad um was able to work with them and um and he was
74:18 able to work with them and um and he was able to work with people like Jesse
74:19 able to work with people like Jesse Helms and uh and I think that you know
74:24 Helms and uh and I think that you know he had more success in terms of
74:26 he had more success in terms of bipartisan legislation than any
74:28 bipartisan legislation than any president in modern history. And one of
74:30 president in modern history. And one of the reasons is is because he was trusted
74:34 the reasons is is because he was trusted by uh you know Mitch McConnell and the
74:36 by uh you know Mitch McConnell and the people that had worked with him for
74:39 people that had worked with him for decades
74:40 decades >> in the Republican party.
74:43 >> in the Republican party. >> But anyway, that that was my life. And
74:44 >> But anyway, that that was my life. And so the um it was very very normal in the
74:48 so the um it was very very normal in the respect of like you know went to
74:51 respect of like you know went to Catholic day school. I went to uh a um
74:54 Catholic day school. I went to uh a um Catholic high school my dad went to.
74:57 Catholic high school my dad went to. Played football. I got in trouble. I um
75:01 Played football. I got in trouble. I um you know uh uh got in fights you know
75:06 you know uh uh got in fights you know made it through and um uh uh not
75:11 made it through and um uh uh not completely unscathed but you know uh
75:13 completely unscathed but you know uh with an incredibly tight-knit close
75:16 with an incredibly tight-knit close family um and uh and pretty idyllic
75:21 family um and uh and pretty idyllic childhood combined with this experience
75:23 childhood combined with this experience that I don't know of anybody that I know
75:25 that I don't know of anybody that I know of that had as um at least during that
75:28 of that had as um at least during that period of
75:29 period of as a kid was able to witness some of the
75:32 as a kid was able to witness some of the things that Bow and I were able to
75:33 things that Bow and I were able to witness it.
75:34 witness it. >> That's interesting.
75:35 >> That's interesting. >> Yeah, it was really really amazing.
75:38 >> Yeah, it was really really amazing. Yeah.
75:47 How was it when How are you and Jill's relationship? Are
75:49 How are you and Jill's relationship? Are you Are you
75:49 you Are you >> very close?
75:50 >> very close? >> Very close. Yeah.
75:51 >> Very close. Yeah. >> How was it when she came to the came
75:53 >> How was it when she came to the came into the picture when you were a kid?
75:54 into the picture when you were a kid? Sounds like you were about five.
75:56 Sounds like you were about five. >> Yeah. And [clears throat] so my mom, I
75:59 >> Yeah. And [clears throat] so my mom, I was just about three. I was a month or
76:01 was just about three. I was a month or so away from uh from turning three when
76:05 so away from uh from turning three when my mom died. And Bo was just before his
76:08 my mom died. And Bo was just before his fourth birthday. We're Bo and I were a
76:10 fourth birthday. We're Bo and I were a year and a day apart, February 3rd and
76:12 year and a day apart, February 3rd and 4th. And um
76:15 4th. And um and uh my sister was 13 months younger.
76:19 and uh my sister was 13 months younger. And um and uh and she obviously passed
76:23 And um and uh and she obviously passed in the in the accident.
76:26 in the in the accident. And I guess my dad and my mom met like a
76:32 And I guess my dad and my mom met like a couple years later. And then um I think
76:36 couple years later. And then um I think you know famously my dad asked my mom to
76:38 you know famously my dad asked my mom to marry him like five times before she
76:41 marry him like five times before she said yes. And she explains it this way
76:43 said yes. And she explains it this way is that
76:45 is that she was so in love with Bonai
76:48 she was so in love with Bonai and she loved my dad, but she just she
76:51 and she loved my dad, but she just she she was so scared that she would um uh
76:55 she was so scared that she would um uh that it was so and I love that about
76:58 that it was so and I love that about her. I said, um, then I don't want to
77:02 her. I said, um, then I don't want to speak for my mom, but she was, um, but
77:06 speak for my mom, but she was, um, but yeah, my mom is is I Bo and I asked her,
77:10 yeah, my mom is is I Bo and I asked her, we literally got our dad by the hand and
77:12 we literally got our dad by the hand and went into the, um, [clears throat] uh,
77:14 went into the, um, [clears throat] uh, into the room and we said, "Will you
77:16 into the room and we said, "Will you marry us?"
77:17 marry us?" >> It was our idea to do it. Yeah.
77:19 >> It was our idea to do it. Yeah. >> That's how it Yeah.
77:20 >> That's how it Yeah. >> Wow.
77:21 >> Wow. >> That's I think that's when she finally
77:23 >> That's I think that's when she finally said yes. [laughter]
77:25 said yes. [laughter] >> With the assist from Bone, I Yeah.
77:27 >> With the assist from Bone, I Yeah. >> Do you remember doing that? I I 100%
77:30 >> Do you remember doing that? I I 100% remember. No kidding.
77:31 remember. No kidding. >> Yeah. Yeah.
77:32 >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's cool, man.
77:33 >> That's cool, man. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so when people said call
77:37 >> Yeah. Yeah. And so when people said call her my my stepmom or refer to is that
77:40 her my my stepmom or refer to is that she's my mom. I mean I have my what you
77:43 she's my mom. I mean I have my what you know but I always referred because from
77:46 know but I always referred because from the age it was mommy. and his mom. And
77:49 the age it was mommy. and his mom. And um and uh and my mom has always been
77:55 um and uh and my mom has always been incredibly
77:57 incredibly uh reverential about my birth mom, my
78:01 uh reverential about my birth mom, my Neilia. Um uh and um has always given us
78:07 Neilia. Um uh and um has always given us a space to honor that and you know, it's
78:11 a space to honor that and you know, it's a hard thing to do.
78:12 a hard thing to do. >> Yeah.
78:12 >> Yeah. >> We did it.
78:13 >> We did it. >> Yeah. I I credit all that to my dad,
78:15 >> Yeah. I I credit all that to my dad, too. You know, being able to thread that
78:18 too. You know, being able to thread that needle. I tell you what,
78:21 needle. I tell you what, you know, he's the best dad I've ever
78:24 you know, he's the best dad I've ever read about, heard about. I swear to God,
78:26 read about, heard about. I swear to God, I'm not just saying that. Is it um
78:29 I'm not just saying that. Is it um you know, it's not an easy job. And uh
78:34 you know, it's not an easy job. And uh and uh and
78:37 and uh and I'm sure he thinks he's made mistakes,
78:39 I'm sure he thinks he's made mistakes, but but I don't. Um
78:44 but but I don't. Um anyway, so yeah, that was kind of what
78:47 anyway, so yeah, that was kind of what it was like growing up. So I got no
78:49 it was like growing up. So I got no excuses, Sean. [laughter]
78:51 excuses, Sean. [laughter] >> Gotcha.
78:51 >> Gotcha. >> So all my fuckups are my own. That's
78:54 >> So all my fuckups are my own. That's what I've come to determination of.
78:56 what I've come to determination of. >> Hey, that's a good way to be, right?
78:58 >> Hey, that's a good way to be, right? >> Yeah, man.
78:59 >> Yeah, man. >> Extreme ownership.
78:59 >> Extreme ownership. >> Well, that was one of the questions is I
79:01 >> Well, that was one of the questions is I think you said is the accountability
79:02 think you said is the accountability piece of it. Yeah.
79:04 piece of it. Yeah. >> And I'll tell you what,
79:07 >> And I'll tell you what, I I you know,
79:10 I I you know, uh last six years,
79:13 uh last six years, you know, I mean, I know that we'll get
79:15 you know, I mean, I know that we'll get to this part because it's the end of the
79:17 to this part because it's the end of the at least the end of the beginning of the
79:19 at least the end of the beginning of the story is um uh the pardon, but the um
79:23 story is um uh the pardon, but the um but I I I I
79:31 think that, you know, I' I've I paid a price.
79:32 price. definitely pay the price.
79:34 definitely pay the price. >> Yeah.
79:34 >> Yeah. >> Maybe people don't think it's enough and
79:37 >> Maybe people don't think it's enough and I don't think they will ever think that
79:38 I don't think they will ever think that it's enough,
79:39 it's enough, >> but um I I promise you and maybe you
79:43 >> but um I I promise you and maybe you know this too is that nobody can hold
79:45 know this too is that nobody can hold you accountable more um harshly than you
79:49 you accountable more um harshly than you uh hold yourself.
79:50 uh hold yourself. >> Yeah.
79:50 >> Yeah. >> And I've been there and I'm over it and
79:52 >> And I've been there and I'm over it and I'm done with it and I'm not going to
79:53 I'm done with it and I'm not going to live in that guilt and shame anymore.
79:56 live in that guilt and shame anymore. And um and I am uh uh I'm at peace. Uh
80:05 And um and I am uh uh I'm at peace. Uh and knowing that I'm still trying to
80:08 and knowing that I'm still trying to figure things out, you know what I mean?
80:10 figure things out, you know what I mean? I try to do the next right thing, but
80:11 I try to do the next right thing, but sometimes I [ __ ] up still. Um I think
80:14 sometimes I [ __ ] up still. Um I think less and less and uh never because of
80:18 less and less and uh never because of not trying.
80:21 not trying. What what kind of
80:24 What what kind of what what are the discussions like at
80:26 what what are the discussions like at the Biden dinner table nowadays?
80:28 the Biden dinner table nowadays? >> I mean, do you guys talk about politics?
80:30 >> I mean, do you guys talk about politics? Do you talk about
80:31 Do you talk about >> Can you believe he [ __ ] said that?
80:33 >> Can you believe he [ __ ] said that? >> Really? It's Or do you guys totally just
80:36 >> Really? It's Or do you guys totally just >> No, we're just like any other family.
80:38 >> No, we're just like any other family. Not at all. I mean, Jesus Christ. that I
80:41 Not at all. I mean, Jesus Christ. that I that I say to people, you know, I mean,
80:43 that I say to people, you know, I mean, here's the [ __ ] is this is
80:49 here's the [ __ ] is this is and I maybe we'll get to this at some
80:51 and I maybe we'll get to this at some point, but I don't want to but I don't
80:52 point, but I don't want to but I don't want to spend time on it because like in
80:54 want to spend time on it because like in in defense, my dad got old.
80:57 in defense, my dad got old. >> Mhm.
80:58 >> Mhm. >> He got old in front of people's eyes.
81:00 >> He got old in front of people's eyes. >> Mhm.
81:01 >> Mhm. >> He literally lost a step. Like literally
81:03 >> He literally lost a step. Like literally lost a physical step.
81:07 lost a physical step. But he didn't lose a step in terms of
81:10 But he didn't lose a step in terms of his capacity and his capability, in
81:12 his capacity and his capability, in terms of his intellectual ability to be
81:15 terms of his intellectual ability to be the president of the United States. So
81:17 the president of the United States. So all this [ __ ] about, you know, Joe
81:20 all this [ __ ] about, you know, Joe Biden didn't know what was going on and
81:22 Biden didn't know what was going on and did I mean find one person to go on the
81:27 did I mean find one person to go on the record, one person that is actually
81:32 record, one person that is actually worked for or worked with Joe Biden.
81:36 worked for or worked with Joe Biden. Like here's my problem with Jake Tapper,
81:39 Like here's my problem with Jake Tapper, okay? who wrote a book um you know uh
81:44 okay? who wrote a book um you know uh well the other guy wrote the book and
81:46 well the other guy wrote the book and Jake Tapper slapped his name on it but
81:48 Jake Tapper slapped his name on it but wrote a book without one single on the
81:51 wrote a book without one single on the record source to say that it was a kind
81:54 record source to say that it was a kind of open secret that Joe Biden was
81:56 of open secret that Joe Biden was mentally incapacitated
81:58 mentally incapacitated find one person Sean [snorts] and I and
82:01 find one person Sean [snorts] and I and that's the thing but what you did see is
82:04 that's the thing but what you did see is this
82:06 this you saw someone become
82:09 you saw someone become physically
82:11 physically less robust and more frail. You saw him
82:15 less robust and more frail. You saw him uh the the way that he walked in his
82:17 uh the the way that he walked in his shortened gate. You saw his movements
82:21 shortened gate. You saw his movements become stiffer. You saw um uh a slower
82:26 become stiffer. You saw um uh a slower speech. And um and that's called getting
82:30 speech. And um and that's called getting old. And it happened, you know, I mean,
82:32 old. And it happened, you know, I mean, and I don't know if you have parents,
82:34 and I don't know if you have parents, but you know, I was I was shocked by it.
82:37 but you know, I was I was shocked by it. I mean, I and I don't know. There's one
82:38 I mean, I and I don't know. There's one of these other things where just I think
82:40 of these other things where just I think people just need to use your common
82:41 people just need to use your common sense.
82:42 sense. >> Mhm.
82:43 >> Mhm. >> Is it It's not like it's unique. Now,
82:46 >> Is it It's not like it's unique. Now, here's the thing.
82:53 Does that mean that uh he should have stepped aside,
82:57 that uh he should have stepped aside, shouldn't have stepped aside? Um you
82:59 shouldn't have stepped aside? Um you know, the debate was like a it like it
83:01 know, the debate was like a it like it it it blew up the whole thing. It blah
83:03 it it blew up the whole thing. It blah blah blah blah blah blah all of that
83:04 blah blah blah blah blah all of that stuff. But the the fact of the matter is
83:07 stuff. But the the fact of the matter is is that I'm sitting here having this
83:11 is that I'm sitting here having this discussion about you know
83:15 discussion about you know uh
83:18 uh my dad when I mean are you kidding me? I
83:22 my dad when I mean are you kidding me? I mean, I've watched the president,
83:25 mean, I've watched the president, current president, I mean, I've
83:26 current president, I mean, I've literally watched him, we all have, fall
83:30 literally watched him, we all have, fall asleep
83:32 asleep in a press conference that is his
83:36 in a press conference that is his in the Oval Office
83:39 in the Oval Office multiple times now. And that's not, you
83:42 multiple times now. And that's not, you know, and by the way, I don't think he
83:44 know, and by the way, I don't think he has dementia.
83:46 has dementia. And I'm not saying that at all,
83:48 And I'm not saying that at all, >> but he's getting old, too. And I think
83:51 >> but he's getting old, too. And I think that we, you know, [clears throat]
83:52 that we, you know, [clears throat] >> do you I mean,
83:54 >> do you I mean, >> how do we even start talking about this?
83:56 >> how do we even start talking about this? Did I just bring this up?
83:56 Did I just bring this up? >> You just brought it up. So, [ __ ] What?
83:59 >> You just brought it up. So, [ __ ] What? >> I actually wasn't planning on talking
84:00 >> I actually wasn't planning on talking about this. Gotcha. I knew he would do.
84:02 about this. Gotcha. I knew he would do. >> But I mean, I will say that, you know,
84:05 >> But I mean, I will say that, you know, and
84:06 and >> yeah,
84:07 >> yeah, >> I I just Hunter, I want to be able to
84:09 >> I I just Hunter, I want to be able to speak without offending you, you know,
84:11 speak without offending you, you know, and and so I'm just I'm going to be
84:13 and and so I'm just I'm going to be blunt, but you know, I mean, I have seen
84:16 blunt, but you know, I mean, I have seen your dad on air fumble his words and
84:20 your dad on air fumble his words and seemingly forget what he's talking
84:22 seemingly forget what he's talking about. But I don't think that that is I
84:25 about. But I don't think that that is I don't think that is I'm not attacking
84:28 don't think that is I'm not attacking your dad. I'm not.
84:30 your dad. I'm not. >> Yeah.
84:30 >> Yeah. >> I think that I think there are a lot of
84:32 >> I think that I think there are a lot of people that have spent way too many way
84:34 people that have spent way too many way too many years in politics.
84:36 too many years in politics. >> I think Mitch McConnell is one of those
84:38 >> I think Mitch McConnell is one of those people.
84:39 people. >> I mean, when you watch Mitch over the
84:41 >> I mean, when you watch Mitch over the past year or two, there's been several
84:44 past year or two, there's been several examples where he totally blanks out
84:47 examples where he totally blanks out completely.
84:48 completely. >> That's a very different thing, Sean. And
84:50 >> That's a very different thing, Sean. And by the way, Yeah. No, I think I think
84:52 by the way, Yeah. No, I think I think that I think there are a lot of people
84:55 that I think there are a lot of people in government right now, president
84:57 in government right now, president included, who are too [ __ ] old to be
84:59 included, who are too [ __ ] old to be there.
84:59 there. >> But but so you come from it and the
85:02 >> But but so you come from it and the reason that I'm sitting here is I've
85:04 reason that I'm sitting here is I've heard you say that and you don't come
85:05 heard you say that and you don't come from it with a cruelty
85:07 from it with a cruelty >> and and or a [ __ ] or make having to
85:09 >> and and or a [ __ ] or make having to make things up or to say you personally
85:12 make things up or to say you personally know like I've seen some of your guest
85:14 know like I've seen some of your guest sits here and say like, "Oh yeah, we
85:16 sits here and say like, "Oh yeah, we everybody knew that he had X, Y, or Z."
85:19 everybody knew that he had X, Y, or Z." And I just it makes you so angry as a
85:22 And I just it makes you so angry as a son. Um but I've never heard you say
85:24 son. Um but I've never heard you say that before. And um and I can say to you
85:28 that before. And um and I can say to you is that I totally completely can
85:30 is that I totally completely can appreciate the position that you have
85:32 appreciate the position that you have about that.
85:33 about that. >> Mhm.
85:33 >> Mhm. >> Now I can go through a series of
85:37 >> Now I can go through a series of rationale
85:38 rationale for why my dad
85:42 for why my dad decided to run for a second term. Okay.
85:45 decided to run for a second term. Okay. Number one, he's the only guy that was
85:48 Number one, he's the only guy that was able to beat Donald Trump. And this is
85:50 able to beat Donald Trump. And this is what people I think and that that I I
85:53 what people I think and that that I I sit and I listen to these um you know uh
85:59 sit and I listen to these um you know uh these Democratic pundits that have made
86:02 these Democratic pundits that have made millions of dollars off of just
86:05 millions of dollars off of just breathing hot air into a microphone and
86:08 breathing hot air into a microphone and living off of the fact that they, you
86:10 living off of the fact that they, you know, they they they um carried Barack
86:13 know, they they they um carried Barack Obama's bag. Do you know what I mean?
86:15 Obama's bag. Do you know what I mean? >> Mhm.
86:16 >> Mhm. >> Or taking credit for, you know, running
86:18 >> Or taking credit for, you know, running his campaign like David Axelrod does.
86:20 his campaign like David Axelrod does. Nobody nobody made Barack Obama except
86:23 Nobody nobody made Barack Obama except Barack Obama. Um but they sit around and
86:27 Barack Obama. Um but they sit around and they act as if they they know um uh they
86:31 they act as if they they know um uh they know things that other people don't and
86:33 know things that other people don't and they make, well, you know, he should
86:35 they make, well, you know, he should have just he he he shouldn't have run
86:37 have just he he he shouldn't have run for a second term.
86:40 for a second term. when they know better about the reality
86:43 when they know better about the reality of the politics of the presidency, which
86:45 of the politics of the presidency, which is this, is that Joe Biden got 81
86:50 is this, is that Joe Biden got 81 million votes. He got more votes than
86:53 million votes. He got more votes than anyone that has ever run for president
86:56 anyone that has ever run for president of the United States by 7 million votes.
86:59 of the United States by 7 million votes. More than anyone that's ever run. He had
87:02 More than anyone that's ever run. He had a higher voter participation rate than
87:04 a higher voter participation rate than any time since 1900.
87:08 any time since 1900. Okay?
87:09 Okay? and he came into the presidency and in a
87:12 and he came into the presidency and in a 2-year period of time, he passed more
87:14 2-year period of time, he passed more bipartisan legislation than any
87:17 bipartisan legislation than any president since Lyndon Johnson since 60
87:20 president since Lyndon Johnson since 60 years ago. Okay? He passed the PAC Act
87:24 years ago. Okay? He passed the PAC Act and the Chips and Science Act and the I
87:26 and the Chips and Science Act and the I mean, just go down the list. He passed
87:28 mean, just go down the list. He passed the infrastructure act and then he
87:30 the infrastructure act and then he passed the IRA. He passed more
87:32 passed the IRA. He passed more legislation on a bipartisan basis, by
87:35 legislation on a bipartisan basis, by the way, than anybody. He would have
87:36 the way, than anybody. He would have passed immigration reform if Trump
87:38 passed immigration reform if Trump hadn't kaibashed it at the end.
87:42 hadn't kaibashed it at the end. And so he goes into the midterms and he
87:45 And so he goes into the midterms and he has the most successful midterms of any
87:49 has the most successful midterms of any president since FDR.
87:51 president since FDR. He limits the losses in the House of
87:53 He limits the losses in the House of Representatives to single digits. He
87:56 Representatives to single digits. He gains a seat in the United States
87:57 gains a seat in the United States Senate, which hasn't happened since
87:59 Senate, which hasn't happened since 1932. and he picked up more
88:02 1932. and he picked up more governorships in in um and h in uh state
88:05 governorships in in um and h in uh state houses than any president since FDR
88:08 houses than any president since FDR since 1932 also who worked with
88:10 since 1932 also who worked with supermajorities. So after that what's
88:13 supermajorities. So after that what's the decision that you make as a
88:16 the decision that you make as a president of the United States? Because
88:18 president of the United States? Because if you say that you're not going to run
88:19 if you say that you're not going to run at that time what ends up happening is
88:22 at that time what ends up happening is you become a lame duck. You use all the
88:25 you become a lame duck. You use all the power of influence that you have.
88:28 power of influence that you have. And so based upon that success and based
88:31 And so based upon that success and based upon the feeling that while he was
88:33 upon the feeling that while he was losing a physical step, while his speech
88:35 losing a physical step, while his speech slowed, that he still had the capacity
88:37 slowed, that he still had the capacity to be able to make the most important
88:39 to be able to make the most important decisions that had led to the successes
88:41 decisions that had led to the successes that he's had up until that point.
88:44 that he's had up until that point. He decided that he was going to run
88:45 He decided that he was going to run again. And then he and he ran. And then
88:49 again. And then he and he ran. And then what happened was is
88:52 what happened was is every little thing, every time he went
88:56 every little thing, every time he went up the steps of Air Force One and if he
88:58 up the steps of Air Force One and if he used the short steps instead of the long
89:00 used the short steps instead of the long steps and if he stumbled when he was
89:02 steps and if he stumbled when he was walking to the podium and if he tripped
89:04 walking to the podium and if he tripped over a word of a president of that he
89:07 over a word of a president of that he was talking about the uh he's talking
89:08 was talking about the uh he's talking about India and not Iraq and every
89:11 about India and not Iraq and every single thing became a a New York Times
89:15 single thing became a a New York Times um uh level two-page expose. say
89:19 um uh level two-page expose. say >> the New York Times wrote over 100 I
89:22 >> the New York Times wrote over 100 I think in 20 separate pieces on Joe
89:24 think in 20 separate pieces on Joe Biden's age in a like 11month period of
89:27 Biden's age in a like 11month period of time.
89:28 time. >> Fox News didn't stop talking about it.
89:32 >> Fox News didn't stop talking about it. And so here you are is it you can't run
89:35 And so here you are is it you can't run away from the impression and then comes
89:36 away from the impression and then comes the debate
89:38 the debate and that was a complete and utter
89:41 and that was a complete and utter disaster.
89:43 disaster. And he recovered in the debate. If you
89:45 And he recovered in the debate. If you go back and watch the debate, he
89:47 go back and watch the debate, he recovered in the debate and was able to,
89:49 recovered in the debate and was able to, you know, get through the debate, but it
89:51 you know, get through the debate, but it reinforced every preconceived notion
89:54 reinforced every preconceived notion that people had whether you loved him or
89:56 that people had whether you loved him or hated him. So then he's got to make a
89:59 hated him. So then he's got to make a decision about whether or not he's going
90:01 decision about whether or not he's going to stay in the race. And the primary is
90:04 to stay in the race. And the primary is over. He overwhelmingly won. He'd gotten
90:07 over. He overwhelmingly won. He'd gotten a challenge from Dean Phillips. Anyone
90:09 a challenge from Dean Phillips. Anyone could have run against him. Anybody in
90:10 could have run against him. Anybody in the party could have run against him.
90:13 the party could have run against him. and no one did.
90:15 and no one did. >> Why didn't they?
90:16 >> Why didn't they? >> Because he had the most successful
90:19 >> Because he had the most successful presidency of any Democrat or any
90:21 presidency of any Democrat or any president in in in his two years in the
90:24 president in in in his two years in the three years that he was there.
90:26 three years that he was there. Regardless of whether you think so or
90:27 Regardless of whether you think so or not in terms of whether you the
90:29 not in terms of whether you the affordability or whether he had gotten
90:31 affordability or whether he had gotten inflation down enough or anybody, but
90:32 inflation down enough or anybody, but just in terms of the brass tax, I mean,
90:35 just in terms of the brass tax, I mean, look at what he did as it relates to
90:37 look at what he did as it relates to NATO.
90:39 NATO. He was able to negotiate a and you may
90:41 He was able to negotiate a and you may disagree with us strengthening NATO, but
90:44 disagree with us strengthening NATO, but he was able to bring Sweden and Finland
90:46 he was able to bring Sweden and Finland into NATO, the first uh uh separate new
90:49 into NATO, the first uh uh separate new members of NATO since the pact was um
90:52 members of NATO since the pact was um created in 1944
90:54 created in 1944 48. I mean,
90:57 48. I mean, whatever your position on the things
91:00 whatever your position on the things that he did, he did them exceedingly
91:02 that he did, he did them exceedingly well and accomplished them and he and he
91:05 well and accomplished them and he and he had mistakes like every other president
91:07 had mistakes like every other president has had. Um um some that I may disagree
91:10 has had. Um um some that I may disagree with but absolutely 100% had some real
91:12 with but absolutely 100% had some real failures also.
91:14 failures also. >> What do you think some of those failures
91:15 >> What do you think some of those failures were?
91:16 were? >> I think the failure one of the failures
91:17 >> I think the failure one of the failures was the way in which they executed the
91:20 was the way in which they executed the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I think it
91:22 withdrawal from Afghanistan. I think it was an obvious [ __ ] failure. I think
91:24 was an obvious [ __ ] failure. I think 13 uh uh uh Marines are dead. I think
91:27 13 uh uh uh Marines are dead. I think that there was a better way to do it.
91:30 that there was a better way to do it. And I think that um uh and I can blame
91:33 And I think that um uh and I can blame it on his generals. I can blame it on
91:34 it on his generals. I can blame it on the people the way way in which we did
91:36 the people the way way in which we did it. But my dad always knew this also is
91:38 it. But my dad always knew this also is that the bug stops with him. I think
91:40 that the bug stops with him. I think that that was a failure. I don't think
91:42 that that was a failure. I don't think leaving Afghanistan I think leaving
91:44 leaving Afghanistan I think leaving Afghanistan was the right thing to do. I
91:47 Afghanistan was the right thing to do. I think that in in terms of the 20 years
91:50 think that in in terms of the 20 years of blood that your brothers gave uh to
91:53 of blood that your brothers gave uh to to for an endless war and $8 trillion
91:57 to for an endless war and $8 trillion is that there is a neverending lust to
92:01 is that there is a neverending lust to continue to sell material and and and
92:05 continue to sell material and and and our blood, sweat, and and and money um
92:08 our blood, sweat, and and and money um to uh to a country that has uh that that
92:12 to uh to a country that has uh that that has never been uh uh anything but a
92:14 has never been uh uh anything but a killing ground for empires. Mhm.
92:17 killing ground for empires. Mhm. >> So regardless of whether you believe
92:19 >> So regardless of whether you believe that or not, the execution of the
92:21 that or not, the execution of the withdrawal
92:23 withdrawal resulted, I think, in um uh and by the
92:26 resulted, I think, in um uh and by the way, you can blame part of it on Trump
92:27 way, you can blame part of it on Trump and that he let all those people out of
92:29 and that he let all those people out of the prison and television, but you know
92:30 the prison and television, but you know what, but it stops with the president
92:31 what, but it stops with the president and that's what he said. That was a
92:33 and that's what he said. That was a mistake.
92:34 mistake. >> Well, how does he feel about that now?
92:36 >> Well, how does he feel about that now? same way that I do is that those lives
92:40 same way that I do is that those lives literally are, you know, uh I mean, I
92:42 literally are, you know, uh I mean, I don't think that there's anything that
92:44 don't think that there's anything that um uh that uh is more and I I don't want
92:48 um uh that uh is more and I I don't want to speak for my dad, but I know my dad,
92:52 to speak for my dad, but I know my dad, you know, is crushed by that. Crushed by
92:56 you know, is crushed by that. Crushed by it.
92:58 it. Just absolutely crushed.
93:01 Just absolutely crushed. And um
93:05 And um and I've been and I don't and I don't
93:06 and I've been and I don't and I don't expect
93:08 expect uh I don't like when when do we lose the
93:12 uh I don't like when when do we lose the idea that that would be a surprise to
93:13 idea that that would be a surprise to anybody? Like for instance, I disagree
93:16 anybody? Like for instance, I disagree [clears throat] with George Bush on a
93:17 [clears throat] with George Bush on a lot of [ __ ]
93:19 lot of [ __ ] when he was president.
93:22 when he was president. But I never ever ever questioned whether
93:25 But I never ever ever questioned whether or not um he um
93:30 or not um he um uh was a patriot,
93:33 uh was a patriot, you know, or by the way and I I I guess
93:36 you know, or by the way and I I I guess I I who patriot what what does that even
93:39 I I who patriot what what does that even mean? is that um
93:43 mean? is that um is that if he could
93:46 is that if he could uh he would do anything that he could to
93:49 uh he would do anything that he could to protect people that we send to serve in
93:52 protect people that we send to serve in harm's way for our for our freedom.
93:56 harm's way for our for our freedom. I just believe that and um doesn't make
93:59 I just believe that and um doesn't make it any easier for the people that have
94:02 it any easier for the people that have lost people, for the families that have
94:04 lost people, for the families that have lost people, for the brothers or sister,
94:07 lost people, for the brothers or sister, the dad, you know. I mean, [ __ ]
94:12 the dad, you know. I mean, [ __ ] Uh I don't know for certain that my
94:16 Uh I don't know for certain that my brother's brain cancer was the direct in
94:20 brother's brain cancer was the direct in uh you know, result of the burn pits
94:22 uh you know, result of the burn pits that he lived by for a year in Iraq when
94:24 that he lived by for a year in Iraq when he was there. But I bet you had
94:27 he was there. But I bet you had something to do with it.
94:29 something to do with it. >> Oh, I bet it had something to do with
94:30 >> Oh, I bet it had something to do with it.
94:30 it. >> That's not like being shot. I'm positive
94:32 >> That's not like being shot. I'm positive it had something to do with it. But I
94:33 it had something to do with it. But I mean, like, I don't want to like the the
94:35 mean, like, I don't want to like the the point being is um
94:42 I don't know. I think that there's a lot of things uh
94:44 I think that there's a lot of things uh that you can't imagine
94:48 that you can't imagine the kinds of decisions that you have to
94:51 the kinds of decisions that you have to make as a president and that if you have
94:53 make as a president and that if you have a heart and you care is just um uh must
94:58 a heart and you care is just um uh must be so overwhelmingly beyond
95:00 be so overwhelmingly beyond comprehension difficult.
95:03 comprehension difficult. >> I cannot [ __ ] stand the way the
95:04 >> I cannot [ __ ] stand the way the Afghan withdrawal happened. Yeah,
95:09 Afghan withdrawal happened. Yeah, >> it it it it
95:12 >> it it it it I don't even want to talk about it
95:13 I don't even want to talk about it because it's it's it's it's going to get
95:15 because it's it's it's it's going to get me into a really dark place.
95:18 me into a really dark place. >> But I will say that um you know when you
95:21 >> But I will say that um you know when you have to make a decision on whether
95:25 have to make a decision on whether when you have to make a decision and
95:27 when you have to make a decision and whatever decision you're going to make,
95:29 whatever decision you're going to make, people are going to die.
95:30 people are going to die. >> Yeah.
95:31 >> Yeah. >> Because of the decision that you made.
95:33 >> Because of the decision that you made. >> Yeah.
95:34 >> Yeah. That would be a really [ __ ] tough
95:36 That would be a really [ __ ] tough call.
95:36 call. >> Yeah.
95:37 >> Yeah. >> So, I will I will give him that.
95:39 >> So, I will I will give him that. >> Yeah.
95:40 >> Yeah. >> But
95:41 >> But >> Yeah.
95:42 >> Yeah. But the way that went down is uh
95:46 But the way that went down is uh >> I don't disagree with you, Sean. And I
95:48 >> I don't disagree with you, Sean. And I don't think that uh and I again I don't
95:49 don't think that uh and I again I don't got to speak for my dad, but I I would
95:52 got to speak for my dad, but I I would say this is that um
95:56 say this is that um uh
95:58 uh I I I
96:01 I I I hear your anger and and I'm not here to
96:07 hear your anger and and I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't be angry,
96:10 tell you that you shouldn't be angry, you know. And one of the things is this
96:13 you know. And one of the things is this is that
96:15 is that I don't think that um uh
96:24 one of the things my dad taught me that he learned from a guy named Mike
96:25 he learned from a guy named Mike Mansfield. He talks about it all the
96:26 Mansfield. He talks about it all the time. So it's not like it's a story that
96:28 time. So it's not like it's a story that is um it's one thing to question um uh a
96:34 is um it's one thing to question um uh a man's judgment and that's okay. You can
96:37 man's judgment and that's okay. You can say I think you use poor judgment this
96:38 say I think you use poor judgment this decision that you made but to question
96:40 decision that you made but to question their intent
96:43 their intent um question their uh whether or not they
96:48 um question their uh whether or not they came to the job of whatever they're
96:50 came to the job of whatever they're doing um uh out of some you know mal
96:55 doing um uh out of some you know mal intent or because they're just bad
96:57 intent or because they're just bad people is um you never get anywhere. But
97:02 people is um you never get anywhere. But you can question their judgment, you
97:04 you can question their judgment, you know, question their judgment whether
97:06 know, question their judgment whether they made the right judgment or whether
97:08 they made the right judgment or whether they were convinced by other people or
97:09 they were convinced by other people or maybe there, you know, whatever the
97:11 maybe there, you know, whatever the circumstance. And I don't I don't know,
97:12 circumstance. And I don't I don't know, but I hear your I I hear your anger
97:14 but I hear your I I hear your anger about that. And I don't have any
97:15 about that. And I don't have any response to it other than the fact that
97:17 response to it other than the fact that I know that my dad came to it from a
97:19 I know that my dad came to it from a position of that 20 years was enough.
97:24 position of that 20 years was enough. and and uh
97:27 and and uh and it was not in the interest of anyone
97:30 and it was not in the interest of anyone in the United States, particularly those
97:31 in the United States, particularly those that serving, to continue to to to turn
97:34 that serving, to continue to to to turn people through. Um the the 1%
97:37 people through. Um the the 1% that have decided that they are going to
97:39 that have decided that they are going to be a part of protecting this country by
97:42 be a part of protecting this country by holding the gun and uh you know,
97:44 holding the gun and uh you know, climbing into helicopters and putting
97:46 climbing into helicopters and putting themselves in harm's way.
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99:38 Well, let's get back to you. >> Yeah, man.
99:39 >> Yeah, man. >> Georgetown University. Did your dad ever
99:42 >> Georgetown University. Did your dad ever or your mom I mean, what did they did
99:44 or your mom I mean, what did they did they ever talk about what they wanted
99:45 they ever talk about what they wanted you to be? Did they want you to get into
99:47 you to be? Did they want you to get into politics? Did they want you to be an
99:49 politics? Did they want you to be an attorney?
99:50 attorney? >> No. No. My dad My dad wasn't like that.
99:52 >> No. No. My dad My dad wasn't like that. I mean, I I kind of, you know, I uh I
99:57 I mean, I I kind of, you know, I uh I always wanted to write and paint. I
99:59 always wanted to write and paint. I mean, literally, that's all. No kidding.
100:01 mean, literally, that's all. No kidding. You were always into the time. I was a
100:02 You were always into the time. I was a kid. Yeah. And um and uh and I think the
100:06 kid. Yeah. And um and uh and I think the truth of the matter is that I never um I
100:10 truth of the matter is that I never um I never had the the the courage to do it.
100:13 never had the the the courage to do it. I mean it takes a lot of courage. Um
100:16 I mean it takes a lot of courage. Um people may think that that's a
100:18 people may think that that's a exaggeration, but put yourself out there
100:20 exaggeration, but put yourself out there through whatever creative process that
100:23 through whatever creative process that you're like privately engaged in, you
100:25 you're like privately engaged in, you know? I mean takes a lot. You know what
100:27 know? I mean takes a lot. You know what I mean? Like it's like, you know, I'm
100:29 I mean? Like it's like, you know, I'm always amazed by people that can get up
100:30 always amazed by people that can get up and dance in front of other people. I
100:32 and dance in front of other people. I was never that guy. And but I really
100:34 was never that guy. And but I really mean it. I mean, and instead of seeing
100:35 mean it. I mean, and instead of seeing it as like, oh, they're goofy, I look at
100:37 it as like, oh, they're goofy, I look at them and I go, God, I wish I could do
100:38 them and I go, God, I wish I could do that. Well, one of the things that I
100:40 that. Well, one of the things that I >> that I knew that I loved to do, but I
100:43 >> that I knew that I loved to do, but I didn't ever have the courage to do
100:45 didn't ever have the courage to do openly. I mean, openly in the sense of
100:47 openly. I mean, openly in the sense of like share it with beyond, you know, my
100:51 like share it with beyond, you know, my brother was to paint and uh and to
100:54 brother was to paint and uh and to write.
100:55 write. >> No kidding.
100:56 >> No kidding. >> Yeah.
100:56 >> Yeah. >> When did you start that?
100:57 >> When did you start that? >> Oh, since I was a kid. A little kid.
100:59 >> Oh, since I was a kid. A little kid. Yeah. I mean, my I think my my aunt
101:03 Yeah. I mean, my I think my my aunt always used to tell me this story that
101:05 always used to tell me this story that my my my mom my birth mom
101:09 my my my mom my birth mom said that that um I was the poet and B
101:12 said that that um I was the poet and B was the politician. And so maybe that
101:15 was the politician. And so maybe that was ingrained in me through that kind of
101:17 was ingrained in me through that kind of a thing. But that was um uh uh I and I
101:22 a thing. But that was um uh uh I and I think that I I denied myself that. And
101:25 think that I I denied myself that. And so I, by the way, you know, so I went to
101:27 so I, by the way, you know, so I went to Georgetown
101:30 Georgetown and um uh and I Georgetown was okay, but
101:34 and um uh and I Georgetown was okay, but I I had a everybody gets a uh Jesuit
101:37 I I had a everybody gets a uh Jesuit when you move in to to your freshman
101:40 when you move in to to your freshman dorm, the Jesuit lives on your floor.
101:42 dorm, the Jesuit lives on your floor. And a guy named Ted Deziaak and Ted
101:45 And a guy named Ted Deziaak and Ted Deziaak um had started the Jesuit
101:48 Deziaak um had started the Jesuit International Volunteer Corps. And it
101:51 International Volunteer Corps. And it was like a um uh similar to the Peace
101:54 was like a um uh similar to the Peace Corps um but it was um kind of a branded
101:58 Corps um but it was um kind of a branded as a as a um uh under the Jesuit order
102:02 as a as a um uh under the Jesuit order um but only in the sense is
102:03 um but only in the sense is noncumenical. It wasn't like a you know
102:05 noncumenical. It wasn't like a you know out procilitizing it was like working in
102:07 out procilitizing it was like working in the community social justice um thing.
102:09 the community social justice um thing. So they had um uh a program in Dangria,
102:14 So they had um uh a program in Dangria, Bise and they had program in Micronesia
102:17 Bise and they had program in Micronesia and they had a program in Nepal and um
102:20 and they had a program in Nepal and um not a program they had volunteer
102:21 not a program they had volunteer opportunities in those places. And so
102:24 opportunities in those places. And so Ted Deziaak and I I became close with
102:26 Ted Deziaak and I I became close with father Diac and and uh he we along he
102:30 father Diac and and uh he we along he along with nine or uh I think 10 other
102:33 along with nine or uh I think 10 other students started a summer program which
102:36 students started a summer program which is now in like I don't know 13 different
102:38 is now in like I don't know 13 different countries and there's a summer volunteer
102:41 countries and there's a summer volunteer program and like for like 20 Jesuit
102:44 program and like for like 20 Jesuit universities
102:46 universities all over the world. Um but we started it
102:48 all over the world. Um but we started it in um Jesuit international volunteer
102:51 in um Jesuit international volunteer summer program in BISE and so when I
102:54 summer program in BISE and so when I graduated from college that's what I
102:57 graduated from college that's what I wanted to do and I thought I was going
102:59 wanted to do and I thought I was going to go into the Peace Corps um and uh and
103:04 to go into the Peace Corps um and uh and another uh guy that I was friends with
103:06 another uh guy that I was friends with Bill Watson another Jesuit priest um
103:10 Bill Watson another Jesuit priest um these are young really brilliant
103:13 these are young really brilliant uh guys um you know PhDs in philosophy
103:17 uh guys um you know PhDs in philosophy and just amazing amazing individuals,
103:19 and just amazing amazing individuals, really dynamic people that lived all
103:20 really dynamic people that lived all over the world. And he
103:23 over the world. And he suggested that I not go uh there's no
103:26 suggested that I not go uh there's no need to go outside the United States. Is
103:28 need to go outside the United States. Is that if I wanted to serve, there was
103:29 that if I wanted to serve, there was plenty of communities to serve here. And
103:32 plenty of communities to serve here. And so I did the uh Jesuit domestic
103:36 so I did the uh Jesuit domestic volunteer corp, the JBC Northwest. I
103:39 volunteer corp, the JBC Northwest. I ended up in I was supposed to go to an
103:41 ended up in I was supposed to go to an Indian reservation in uh in eastern uh
103:46 Indian reservation in uh in eastern uh Washington state and I ended up that uh
103:50 Washington state and I ended up that uh ended up going to Portland, Oregon and
103:52 ended up going to Portland, Oregon and uh ran an emergency services center for
103:56 uh ran an emergency services center for um for people that basically the
103:58 um for people that basically the families that didn't have enough money
104:00 families that didn't have enough money to uh like turn on their utilities to
104:03 to uh like turn on their utilities to turn the lights or their gas or man, you
104:05 turn the lights or their gas or man, you know, pe people with small or or
104:08 know, pe people with small or or groceries.
104:09 groceries. And I was the, you know, I sat in the
104:12 And I was the, you know, I sat in the sat in the basement of a St. Vincent de
104:15 sat in the basement of a St. Vincent de Paul church in, you know, off Martin
104:18 Paul church in, you know, off Martin Luther King Avenue in uh Northwest
104:20 Luther King Avenue in uh Northwest Portland and uh people would come in and
104:24 Portland and uh people would come in and I'd figure out how to get them groceries
104:25 I'd figure out how to get them groceries or go advocate for them to get their,
104:27 or go advocate for them to get their, you know, their utilities turned back on
104:29 you know, their utilities turned back on or make sure their kids could get to
104:31 or make sure their kids could get to somewhere with heat um until we figured
104:33 somewhere with heat um until we figured it out. and and um then I did that for a
104:37 it out. and and um then I did that for a year and that's where I uh met uh my
104:40 year and that's where I uh met uh my first wife and we had Naomi
104:44 first wife and we had Naomi shortly after that.
104:45 shortly after that. >> How'd you meet her?
104:46 >> How'd you meet her? >> Yeah, she was also a volunteer.
104:47 >> Yeah, she was also a volunteer. >> She was in there.
104:48 >> She was in there. >> Yeah. And uh and uh and then Naomi I and
104:54 >> Yeah. And uh and uh and then Naomi I and then I
104:55 then I kind of realized that we're about to
104:57 kind of realized that we're about to have a baby and um you know 80 bucks a
105:00 have a baby and um you know 80 bucks a month uh wasn't going to cut it. That's
105:04 month uh wasn't going to cut it. That's what you made as a volunteer. No, you
105:05 what you made as a volunteer. No, you got to live rentree in a house with
105:07 got to live rentree in a house with other volunteers, but you got 80 bucks a
105:10 other volunteers, but you got 80 bucks a month and everybody pulled their money
105:12 month and everybody pulled their money for groceries. And uh and even in 1992,
105:16 for groceries. And uh and even in 1992, 80 bucks a month was pretty pretty
105:20 80 bucks a month was pretty pretty >> pretty rough.
105:20 >> pretty rough. >> Pretty rough, but it was amazing
105:22 >> Pretty rough, but it was amazing experience. And um but then I went to I
105:26 experience. And um but then I went to I I I I
105:28 I I I decided I need to go to law uh to go to
105:30 decided I need to go to law uh to go to back to school. And so I went to um
105:34 back to school. And so I went to um uh I applied to two places. My brother
105:37 uh I applied to two places. My brother was at Syracuse and I applied to
105:39 was at Syracuse and I applied to Syracuse because they had a famous um uh
105:42 Syracuse because they had a famous um uh program for uh writing program at
105:45 program for uh writing program at Syracuse. Um and two schools, one was uh
105:49 Syracuse. Um and two schools, one was uh University of Iowa um program and
105:52 University of Iowa um program and Syracuse's program. And so I got into
105:54 Syracuse's program. And so I got into that writing program and um but then I
105:58 that writing program and um but then I also got into Georgetown Law School and
105:59 also got into Georgetown Law School and and Duke and um and I didn't know how I
106:03 and Duke and um and I didn't know how I would be able to raise a a uh have a
106:07 would be able to raise a a uh have a baby. I was 23. I thought I got a beaten
106:10 baby. I was 23. I thought I got a beaten family,
106:10 family, >> man.
106:11 >> man. >> And so we went to DC and I went to law
106:14 >> And so we went to DC and I went to law school and then I and then I um I
106:17 school and then I and then I um I transferred because I didn't get into
106:19 transferred because I didn't get into Yale when I first applied. Um, but the
106:23 Yale when I first applied. Um, but the dean had told me that if I do really
106:26 dean had told me that if I do really well in my first year, um, I would make
106:29 well in my first year, um, I would make it to I could I could apply to transfer.
106:32 it to I could I could apply to transfer. And so, like I I got in I I was one of
106:36 And so, like I I got in I I was one of 10 people out I don't know, like 5,000
106:40 10 people out I don't know, like 5,000 to apply to transfer, but I did really
106:42 to apply to transfer, but I did really well. And um I had my I had Naomi
106:47 well. And um I had my I had Naomi on the day of my last exam on December
106:52 on the day of my last exam on December 21st
106:53 21st u my civil procedure exam and Professor
106:56 u my civil procedure exam and Professor Abanati let me out of the exam to go
106:58 Abanati let me out of the exam to go have the baby.
106:59 have the baby. >> No kidding.
107:00 >> No kidding. >> Yeah. And uh and then and I took it
107:03 >> Yeah. And uh and then and I took it after Christmas.
107:05 after Christmas. >> Right on.
107:05 >> Right on. >> But I did well. And uh and then I went
107:07 >> But I did well. And uh and then I went to Yale and we lived in a basement
107:09 to Yale and we lived in a basement apartment on Court Street.
107:12 apartment on Court Street. And I think we're the only um I'm the
107:14 And I think we're the only um I'm the only person that uh got to cut the line
107:18 only person that uh got to cut the line at Sally's Pizza because Flo was the
107:21 at Sally's Pizza because Flo was the famous Flo who sat this famous pizza
107:24 famous Flo who sat this famous pizza place in New Haven who has the best
107:26 place in New Haven who has the best pizza in the world.
107:28 pizza in the world. Uh I mean I look like a kid. I mean,
107:32 Uh I mean I look like a kid. I mean, when I was 23 years old walking around
107:34 when I was 23 years old walking around with Naomi, um I mean, I went everywhere
107:37 with Naomi, um I mean, I went everywhere with her and um yeah, I mean, I look
107:40 with her and um yeah, I mean, I look like I was 16. People used to stop us
107:43 like I was 16. People used to stop us all the time and go, "Now, when you get
107:45 all the time and go, "Now, when you get home, tell your parents
107:48 home, tell your parents that your little sister,
107:50 that your little sister, >> damn,
107:51 >> damn, >> needs to, you know, do this, that, or
107:53 >> needs to, you know, do this, that, or the other thing." And
107:54 the other thing." And >> how how old is she now? She's 31 and she
107:57 >> how how old is she now? She's 31 and she just had my um not just 10 months ago,
108:00 just had my um not just 10 months ago, 11 months ago, she had u Willie Willie,
108:03 11 months ago, she had u Willie Willie, my grandson.
108:05 my grandson. >> Congratulations.
108:06 >> Congratulations. >> Yeah, man.
108:06 >> Yeah, man. >> How is it being a granddad?
108:08 >> How is it being a granddad? >> Oh, it's uh it's the best. It's
108:10 >> Oh, it's uh it's the best. It's incredible.
108:12 incredible. Yeah. Yeah, it's uh and she's the best.
108:16 Yeah. Yeah, it's uh and she's the best. I mean, I she's um she's an incredibly
108:19 I mean, I she's um she's an incredibly accomplished woman. uh her husband is a
108:22 accomplished woman. uh her husband is a I love a lot and um and uh he's a public
108:27 I love a lot and um and uh he's a public defender. He served in uh uh he was an
108:30 defender. He served in uh uh he was an active duty um JAG officer for
108:34 active duty um JAG officer for uh uh for about two years when he got
108:37 uh uh for about two years when he got out of law school
108:38 out of law school >> and he's in the reserves now and um and
108:41 >> and he's in the reserves now and um and he's now a public defender and uh in LA
108:45 he's now a public defender and uh in LA and now he's a fifth year associate in a
108:48 and now he's a fifth year associate in a big law firm. [sighs]
108:50 big law firm. [sighs] >> Yeah.
108:52 >> Yeah. >> Where do we go? Where do we go from
108:54 >> Where do we go? Where do we go from here? Well, after that, um, I had I had
108:58 here? Well, after that, um, I had I had a decision to make
109:01 a decision to make and I had a lot of debt and, um, so I
109:05 and I had a lot of debt and, um, so I had my law school debt and I had my
109:07 had my law school debt and I had my college debt. And so, um, and at the
109:10 college debt. And so, um, and at the time, I remember it was like $140,000.
109:14 time, I remember it was like $140,000. Um, you know, between law school and
109:16 Um, you know, between law school and and, uh, and Georgetown. Um, because I
109:20 and, uh, and Georgetown. Um, because I had taken out loans to go, but my dad
109:22 had taken out loans to go, but my dad couldn't afford. I remember my dad gave
109:23 couldn't afford. I remember my dad gave me the for my first semester, gave me
109:26 me the for my first semester, gave me the the check. It was $7,500 for my
109:28 the the check. It was $7,500 for my first semester at Georgetown. And he
109:30 first semester at Georgetown. And he said, "This was more money than I think
109:34 said, "This was more money than I think uh than my entire um uh college and law
109:38 uh than my entire um uh college and law school combined." [laughter]
109:40 school combined." [laughter] And it was $7,500. And you think about
109:42 And it was $7,500. And you think about it today, and that was my dad. My dad
109:44 it today, and that was my dad. My dad had to um uh in order for us to do that,
109:47 had to um uh in order for us to do that, he um I remember distinctly he bought a
109:51 he um I remember distinctly he bought a a an old property in in uh in Wilmington
109:54 a an old property in in uh in Wilmington in little in this little part of
109:56 in little in this little part of Wilmington called Greenville. And he
109:58 Wilmington called Greenville. And he this little beat up uh a house, a
110:00 this little beat up uh a house, a beautiful house, but he bought it for
110:02 beautiful house, but he bought it for like $100,000, but it had like 5 acres.
110:04 like $100,000, but it had like 5 acres. And so like he sold off pieces of
110:07 And so like he sold off pieces of property to pay for, you know, my first
110:10 property to pay for, you know, my first year of college, but then we took out
110:12 year of college, but then we took out loans. And so then I was married and
110:15 loans. And so then I was married and then I had law school loans and the the
110:17 then I had law school loans and the the only way I was living off it was the
110:19 only way I was living off it was the money I would make as a summer
110:20 money I would make as a summer associate. So when I was getting out of
110:22 associate. So when I was getting out of law school, what I thought I would do is
110:24 law school, what I thought I would do is to spend a few years and do what a lot
110:27 to spend a few years and do what a lot of people that I was working with then
110:28 of people that I was working with then is instead of going to the public
110:30 is instead of going to the public service directly is go work in the
110:31 service directly is go work in the banking world. And I was going to go
110:33 banking world. And I was going to go work I got offers from Goldman Sachs and
110:35 work I got offers from Goldman Sachs and a bunch of other uh and I couldn't see
110:37 a bunch of other uh and I couldn't see how I'd live in New York City with a
110:39 how I'd live in New York City with a baby. just didn't I mean I and I met
110:42 baby. just didn't I mean I and I met somebody in Delaware that was running a
110:44 somebody in Delaware that was running a big bank there and they convinced me to
110:46 big bank there and they convinced me to go work in Delaware
110:49 go work in Delaware and I went to work for um a bank in
110:51 and I went to work for um a bank in Delaware and I was in like their
110:53 Delaware and I was in like their executive management program
110:56 executive management program and after about two years of it I just
110:59 and after about two years of it I just like I was like I couldn't do it and um
111:04 like I was like I couldn't do it and um >> not because it was a wonderful place to
111:05 >> not because it was a wonderful place to work but it's just like I just like my
111:07 work but it's just like I just like my heart was in it and so I went down and I
111:10 heart was in it and so I went down and I I served in the Clinton administration
111:12 I served in the Clinton administration the last two years of it and I was
111:15 the last two years of it and I was executive director of e-commerce policy
111:17 executive director of e-commerce policy for the department of commerce when they
111:19 for the department of commerce when they used to call it e-commerce.
111:21 used to call it e-commerce. >> How was that?
111:22 >> How was that? >> It was a great experience. I worked for
111:23 >> It was a great experience. I worked for Bill Dailyy for uh two years and um and
111:28 Bill Dailyy for uh two years and um and I traveled the world with them and
111:29 I traveled the world with them and e-commerce at the time was a new thing
111:31 e-commerce at the time was a new thing and and u there was real questions about
111:33 and and u there was real questions about you know privacy a lot of stuff that
111:35 you know privacy a lot of stuff that still hasn't been resolved to this day
111:36 still hasn't been resolved to this day but it was a big job and that um you
111:39 but it was a big job and that um you know my title was was uh a lot bigger
111:42 know my title was was uh a lot bigger than my um uh than my you know ability
111:46 than my um uh than my you know ability to affect anything but um but it was a
111:48 to affect anything but um but it was a great learning experience
111:50 great learning experience >> you know when you when you were growing
111:51 >> you know when you when you were growing up especially I don't maybe from teenage
111:54 up especially I don't maybe from teenage years on. I mean, your your dad's a
111:56 years on. I mean, your your dad's a senator.
111:57 senator. >> Yeah.
111:57 >> Yeah. >> You know, and and I would imagine that a
112:00 >> You know, and and I would imagine that a lot of people would try to
112:05 lot of people would try to use your dad's kids to get to him. Uh,
112:09 use your dad's kids to get to him. Uh, for example, the bank that you worked
112:10 for example, the bank that you worked out, I know I have that they were a
112:13 out, I know I have that they were a major a major donor to your dad's
112:15 major a major donor to your dad's campaigns.
112:16 campaigns. I mean, would that would they ever who
112:19 I mean, would that would they ever who who what what type of people would try
112:21 who what what type of people would try to use you to get to your dad? How would
112:23 to use you to get to your dad? How would they do I mean, that's the thing is that
112:25 they do I mean, that's the thing is that the the reality is this is that
112:33 you come to the understanding that I don't really think that there's a um uh
112:35 don't really think that there's a um uh that there's an industry
112:38 that there's an industry um or a uh or a profession that a United
112:44 um or a uh or a profession that a United States senator
112:47 States senator uh doesn't have some uh influence over.
112:50 uh doesn't have some uh influence over. >> Mhm.
112:51 >> Mhm. And so, you know, the question is is
112:56 And so, you know, the question is is whether or not uh
112:58 whether or not uh there's ever been an instance in which
113:00 there's ever been an instance in which I've asked my dad to do anything on
113:02 I've asked my dad to do anything on behalf of somebody that's employing me
113:04 behalf of somebody that's employing me or paying me. And the answer to that is
113:06 or paying me. And the answer to that is no. And the proof of that is this. He
113:10 no. And the proof of that is this. He said you have my digital footprint.
113:13 said you have my digital footprint. Everybody does. The entire world has
113:16 Everybody does. The entire world has literally the entirety of my digital
113:19 literally the entirety of my digital footprint. every text message, every
113:21 footprint. every text message, every email, every phone uh uh voicemail,
113:25 email, every phone uh uh voicemail, every photograph,
113:28 every photograph, everything. And some of it not even
113:30 everything. And some of it not even real, but everything for over 25 years
113:34 real, but everything for over 25 years going back to uh 2000.
113:39 going back to uh 2000. And I challenge you to find one time in
113:42 And I challenge you to find one time in which you will find one communication
113:44 which you will find one communication from me or a communication from someone
113:46 from me or a communication from someone uh uh in in my dad's in in a position of
113:49 uh uh in in my dad's in in a position of authority in my dad's office in which
113:51 authority in my dad's office in which you said, you know, I need you to do
113:53 you said, you know, I need you to do this because I'm getting paid.
113:56 this because I'm getting paid. >> I'm not accusing you of anything.
113:57 >> I'm not accusing you of anything. >> I know, but but here's what I'm what I'm
113:59 >> I know, but but here's what I'm what I'm saying is is that everybody else is.
114:02 saying is is that everybody else is. Mhm.
114:03 Mhm. >> You may not be accusing me of that, but
114:05 >> You may not be accusing me of that, but my response to it is this. Is that
114:08 my response to it is this. Is that unlike anybody else, I'm the most
114:10 unlike anybody else, I'm the most transparent [ __ ] you ever met.
114:13 transparent [ __ ] you ever met. [laughter]
114:14 [laughter] >> Right on.
114:15 >> Right on. >> I mean, come on, man.
114:16 >> I mean, come on, man. >> Yeah.
114:16 >> Yeah. >> You got it all. Everybody, I'm not you.
114:18 >> You got it all. Everybody, I'm not you. I'm not I'm I'm not But you got it. They
114:21 I'm not I'm I'm not But you got it. They got it all.
114:23 got it all. Everything.
114:24 Everything. >> They got it all. Not only did they get
114:26 >> They got it all. Not only did they get it all, but they spent seven years
114:28 it all, but they spent seven years investigating me with every single
114:30 investigating me with every single Alphabet agency in the country and in
114:33 Alphabet agency in the country and in the world.
114:35 the world. Everybody.
114:36 Everybody. And what did they come up with is that I
114:38 And what did they come up with is that I didn't pay my taxes on time for a 2-year
114:40 didn't pay my taxes on time for a 2-year period of time in which I was a
114:42 period of time in which I was a ineterate addict and I wrote a book
114:44 ineterate addict and I wrote a book about it and then paid my taxes with
114:46 about it and then paid my taxes with penalties and interest. And [snorts]
114:48 penalties and interest. And [snorts] during that time when I wrote a book is
114:51 during that time when I wrote a book is that I bought a gun.
114:55 that I bought a gun. That's it. Now every other accusation
114:59 That's it. Now every other accusation and I know where you're getting to and
115:01 and I know where you're getting to and not where you're getting to. It's not
115:03 not where you're getting to. It's not it's a it's a um I think a an incredibly
115:06 it's a it's a um I think a an incredibly fair question particularly in a time in
115:08 fair question particularly in a time in which there is just such open corruption
115:10 which there is just such open corruption is what you know like the impression
115:15 is what you know like the impression that I think that the New York Post and
115:17 that I think that the New York Post and everybody else or even Tucker for that
115:19 everybody else or even Tucker for that matter has tried to leave people with is
115:21 matter has tried to leave people with is that I've been drifting off the
115:22 that I've been drifting off the coattails of my father and my brother
115:25 coattails of my father and my brother and that I am you know like I went back
115:27 and that I am you know like I went back and I worked for MBNA MBANA was the
115:29 and I worked for MBNA MBANA was the largest credit card bank in the United
115:30 largest credit card bank in the United States and at that time And uh like any
115:33 States and at that time And uh like any other banker, they had significant
115:35 other banker, they had significant interest before Congress.
115:37 interest before Congress. I worked in the in the general counsel's
115:39 I worked in the in the general counsel's office in MBNA.
115:40 office in MBNA. >> Mhm.
115:41 >> Mhm. >> You know.
115:42 >> You know. >> Mhm.
115:43 >> Mhm. >> I don't know what to tell you is that
115:45 >> I don't know what to tell you is that there's the largest employer in the
115:47 there's the largest employer in the state of Delaware. I wanted to live in
115:48 state of Delaware. I wanted to live in the state of Delaware. Now, I could have
115:50 the state of Delaware. Now, I could have gone to work for Bank of America,
115:54 gone to work for Bank of America, or I could have gone to work for Goldman
115:55 or I could have gone to work for Goldman Sachs, or I could have gone to work for
115:58 Sachs, or I could have gone to work for JP Morgan, but they have any less of a
116:02 JP Morgan, but they have any less of a interest. And
116:03 interest. And >> it it doesn't mean that any of those
116:05 >> it it doesn't mean that any of those banks weren't major donators also to
116:08 banks weren't major donators also to your dad.
116:08 your dad. >> They all were. But by the way, but by
116:10 >> They all were. But by the way, but by the way I what I'm saying is is that
116:13 the way I what I'm saying is is that >> there is a um uh here's another you know
116:16 >> there is a um uh here's another you know another major donor to my dad is the um
116:19 another major donor to my dad is the um uh trial lawyers. So if I went to work
116:22 uh trial lawyers. So if I went to work with the trial lawyers
116:23 with the trial lawyers >> Mhm. Mhm.
116:25 >> Mhm. Mhm. >> And um and by the way I'm not saying
116:28 >> And um and by the way I'm not saying like woe is me. Oh my god my choices are
116:30 like woe is me. Oh my god my choices are so limited and things like that. I'm
116:32 so limited and things like that. I'm saying this is that you know the
116:34 saying this is that you know the question becomes
116:37 question becomes is there um uh any instance in which
116:41 is there um uh any instance in which I was credibly accused of in any way of
116:48 I was credibly accused of in any way of using my relationship with my father
116:52 using my relationship with my father to influence
116:55 to influence him on behalf of a client on behalf of
116:57 him on behalf of a client on behalf of somebody that I was being paid by.
116:59 somebody that I was being paid by. >> Mhm. And um I can not only say no and
117:04 >> Mhm. And um I can not only say no and hope that you believe me, but I can say
117:06 hope that you believe me, but I can say not only no,
117:09 not only no, go look, you can look at every email
117:11 go look, you can look at every email that I ever sent.
117:13 that I ever sent. >> Mhm.
117:13 >> Mhm. >> You can look at every text message that
117:15 >> You can look at every text message that I ever sent. So I'm not sitting here
117:17 I ever sent. So I'm not sitting here telling you and hoping that you believe
117:20 telling you and hoping that you believe me. And that's what I was talking about,
117:21 me. And that's what I was talking about, I think, earlier is one of the real
117:23 I think, earlier is one of the real gifts of the last six years is is that I
117:29 gifts of the last six years is is that I got like I got nothing to hide, Sean. I
117:33 got like I got nothing to hide, Sean. I mean, it is all out there for anybody
117:35 mean, it is all out there for anybody that wants to um you know, uh look at it
117:38 that wants to um you know, uh look at it now. You can continue to to people can
117:41 now. You can continue to to people can continue to lie about me
117:43 continue to lie about me and make [ __ ] up.
117:49 Hunter, I I just want you to know that I didn't mean any That's not where I was
117:52 didn't mean any That's not where I was going with this question.
117:53 going with this question. >> No, I didn't think you were going there.
117:54 >> No, I didn't think you were going there. I took it there. And the reason I took
117:56 I took it there. And the reason I took it there is because I found it an
117:57 it there is because I found it an enormous opportunity to talk to somebody
117:59 enormous opportunity to talk to somebody who uh uh would would listen about it
118:02 who uh uh would would listen about it without being defensive about it.
118:04 without being defensive about it. >> Well, I'm I'm going to tell you the
118:06 >> Well, I'm I'm going to tell you the tough questions that I'm going to ask
118:07 tough questions that I'm going to ask you before we get there. I'll tell you
118:10 you before we get there. I'll tell you what they are. I'm going to ask you some
118:12 what they are. I'm going to ask you some tough questions about Barisma.
118:15 tough questions about Barisma. I'm going to ask you some tough
118:17 I'm going to ask you some tough questions about the laptop.
118:20 questions about the laptop. I'm going to ask some tough questions
118:22 I'm going to ask some tough questions about actually not even touch tough
118:25 about actually not even touch tough questions. I'm just going to ask you to
118:27 questions. I'm just going to ask you to tell the story about your brother's
118:30 tell the story about your brother's ex-wife and and you [clears throat]
118:32 ex-wife and and you [clears throat] and uh I think we'll have a really good
118:35 and uh I think we'll have a really good discussion about um addiction and uh I
118:40 discussion about um addiction and uh I think the last
118:42 think the last tough questions will come towards the
118:45 tough questions will come towards the end when we get to the pardon and other
118:47 end when we get to the pardon and other than that we're just having a discussion
118:51 than that we're just having a discussion and so with with that question what I
118:53 and so with with that question what I was what I was actually what I What I
118:55 was what I was actually what I What I was trying to get to is
118:58 was trying to get to is your old band is is in a and is a
119:01 your old band is is in a and is a position of major influence.
119:03 position of major influence. >> Mhm. And through my journey here just as
119:06 >> Mhm. And through my journey here just as a [ __ ] podcaster, I can see how
119:09 a [ __ ] podcaster, I can see how people
119:11 people use my wife to get to me. And I am
119:14 use my wife to get to me. And I am anticipating on how they're going to try
119:16 anticipating on how they're going to try to manipulate my kids when they're old
119:19 to manipulate my kids when they're old enough to get to me because I know it's
119:22 enough to get to me because I know it's going to [ __ ] happen because I'm I'm
119:24 going to [ __ ] happen because I'm I'm starting to see like
119:26 starting to see like how people are and and when you're in a
119:30 how people are and and when you're in a position of influence and how people
119:32 position of influence and how people turn and and and change as that happens.
119:36 turn and and and change as that happens. >> And so what I'm what I'm asking you is,
119:39 >> And so what I'm what I'm asking you is, you know, how how would people approach
119:41 you know, how how would people approach you? How would they try to manipulate
119:44 you? How would they try to manipulate you to get to your dad?
119:48 you to get to your dad? And how would that make you feel?
119:51 And how would that make you feel? Well, I think that there's uh that um at
119:55 Well, I think that there's uh that um at least in my experience,
119:58 least in my experience, there's u
120:05 there were two obvious ways in which um uh that would happen. But there were
120:08 uh that would happen. But there were the the one way is is just a full
120:10 the the one way is is just a full frontal assault.
120:12 frontal assault. you know, which was easy to say like I
120:15 you know, which was easy to say like I have no interest in speaking to you, you
120:18 have no interest in speaking to you, you know, where people would come and say,
120:21 know, where people would come and say, "Hey,
120:23 "Hey, can you talk to your dad about X, you
120:27 can you talk to your dad about X, you know, I think it could be really cool
120:28 know, I think it could be really cool for you."
120:30 for you." You know what I mean? And uh it like,
120:32 You know what I mean? And uh it like, you know, this could be really great or
120:34 you know, this could be really great or um uh and that was an obvious uh uh it's
120:40 um uh and that was an obvious uh uh it's an obvious no. And so now it's an an
120:42 an obvious no. And so now it's an an immediate at least in my experience is
120:45 immediate at least in my experience is like
120:46 like >> no like I don't do that and I really
120:48 >> no like I don't do that and I really don't do that and I never did do that
120:51 don't do that and I never did do that and and regardless of whether anybody
120:53 and and regardless of whether anybody believes me or not um that 100% was the
120:58 believes me or not um that 100% was the bright line rule in anything that I did
121:02 bright line rule in anything that I did uh in my professional career and
121:04 uh in my professional career and everybody knew that. And then the other
121:07 everybody knew that. And then the other way however was the much more insidious
121:09 way however was the much more insidious way which I'm sure that you know
121:11 way which I'm sure that you know whatever level uh that you're talking
121:13 whatever level uh that you're talking about in terms of your own familiar
121:16 about in terms of your own familiar relations and and u as you become more
121:19 relations and and u as you become more influential or as you your influence has
121:21 influential or as you your influence has grown is just more in a much more
121:24 grown is just more in a much more insidious way about people that you
121:28 insidious way about people that you believed to be honest, straightforward
121:33 believed to be honest, straightforward um uh interesting thing um uh in which
121:40 um uh interesting thing um uh in which uh you figure out though at some point
121:45 uh you figure out though at some point that they have an agenda.
121:47 that they have an agenda. >> Mhm.
121:48 >> Mhm. >> And they have an agenda that's all about
121:50 >> And they have an agenda that's all about them and not about uh uh you personally,
121:56 them and not about uh uh you personally, but about what you um uh that what your
122:00 but about what you um uh that what your wife can do for them as it relates to
122:02 wife can do for them as it relates to you.
122:03 you. >> But you find that out pretty quickly.
122:05 >> But you find that out pretty quickly. Mhm.
122:06 Mhm. >> And um
122:08 >> And um and uh you know, and that's really kind
122:11 and uh you know, and that's really kind of easy to figure out. um uh at some
122:14 of easy to figure out. um uh at some point when when my dad was a United
122:17 point when when my dad was a United States senator
122:18 States senator um
122:21 um uh because I was I was
122:25 uh because I was I was you know uh
122:28 you know uh highly aware of it my whole life is that
122:31 highly aware of it my whole life is that he had the capacity to do things like
122:33 he had the capacity to do things like for instance
122:34 for instance >> um getting people into the Naval
122:36 >> um getting people into the Naval Academy. the United States senator as
122:39 Academy. the United States senator as you know is the capacity that they have
122:42 you know is the capacity that they have a a um they get to choose what is it two
122:46 a a um they get to choose what is it two candidates per year
122:47 candidates per year >> [ __ ] I don't know
122:48 >> [ __ ] I don't know >> yeah I think that's how it works and
122:50 >> yeah I think that's how it works and Jeremy or anybody else can uh explain it
122:53 Jeremy or anybody else can uh explain it better but they have a I think every
122:56 better but they have a I think every United States senator has the um uh on
122:59 United States senator has the um uh on an annual basis picks two for every
123:02 an annual basis picks two for every service academy they can appoint two
123:04 service academy they can appoint two people
123:06 people and so a lot of the things that my dad
123:08 and so a lot of the things that my dad did as it relates to things like that
123:09 did as it relates to things like that realizing that there is an enormous uh
123:11 realizing that there is an enormous uh room for abuse of that is like he
123:14 room for abuse of that is like he created a independent panel of people
123:16 created a independent panel of people and took the decision out of his hands
123:18 and took the decision out of his hands to be able to do that and I just use
123:20 to be able to do that and I just use that as an example of the ways in which
123:23 that as an example of the ways in which you know
123:24 you know >> and one of the rules in in in my family
123:27 >> and one of the rules in in in my family not just apply to me apply to anybody
123:29 not just apply to me apply to anybody [clears throat] in my family is that if
123:31 [clears throat] in my family is that if you're if if you're working for somebody
123:33 you're if if you're working for somebody if you're getting paid for somebody
123:35 if you're getting paid for somebody don't come into my don't come into my
123:36 don't come into my don't come into my dad's office and ask anybody to do
123:38 dad's office and ask anybody to do anything on on behalf of those people
123:40 anything on on behalf of those people that you're being paid to work for,
123:43 that you're being paid to work for, regardless of how good the cause is,
123:45 regardless of how good the cause is, regardless of how um uh uh how righteous
123:49 regardless of how um uh uh how righteous you may feel that it is. But that was
123:51 you may feel that it is. But that was the rule. And um
123:55 the rule. And um and so uh
123:58 and so uh those are the two kind of obvious ways
124:01 those are the two kind of obvious ways that um one less obvious one in which
124:04 that um one less obvious one in which you know um uh there's there's like a
124:07 you know um uh there's there's like a level of seduction that uh that occurs
124:09 level of seduction that uh that occurs um and where people sometimes even
124:12 um and where people sometimes even unwittingly overstep a boundary that at
124:15 unwittingly overstep a boundary that at least that I would have or anybody else
124:17 least that I would have or anybody else in my family would have. Mhm.
124:19 in my family would have. Mhm. >> Um
124:20 >> Um uh and then um uh and then there's the
124:26 uh and then um uh and then there's the the um uh ways in which I'm now only in
124:32 the um uh ways in which I'm now only in um retrospect
124:34 um retrospect um have become kind of fully cognizant
124:37 um have become kind of fully cognizant of that are much much more sophisticated
124:40 of that are much much more sophisticated in terms of the ways in which uh you can
124:44 in terms of the ways in which uh you can be manipulated um by people sometimes
124:47 be manipulated um by people sometimes wittingly, sometimes s unwittingly
124:49 wittingly, sometimes s unwittingly sometimes, you know, uh, you know, but
124:53 sometimes, you know, uh, you know, but but I think that there's much more
124:54 but I think that there's much more sophisticated um, ways of doing that.
124:57 sophisticated um, ways of doing that. >> Could you give me an example?
125:00 >> Could you give me an example? >> Um,
125:03 >> Um, yeah. I You want to get to Bisma?
125:06 yeah. I You want to get to Bisma? >> Yeah, let's get the barista.
125:07 >> Yeah, let's get the barista. >> Okay. So here's the the the you know I
125:17 >> could you start off with just describing what is Maurice?
125:19 what is Maurice? >> Okay. What was it?
125:19 >> Okay. What was it? >> Well but but let's step back from
125:21 >> Well but but let's step back from Barisma. Okay.
125:22 Barisma. Okay. >> Okay.
125:22 >> Okay. >> All right. Is this
125:25 >> All right. Is this is that I leave the commerce department
125:29 is that I leave the commerce department in that job. Okay. And I was um you know
125:32 in that job. Okay. And I was um you know I worked at the end of the Clinton
125:33 I worked at the end of the Clinton administration from 1998 to you know
125:35 administration from 1998 to you know left in January of 2001. And um and I
125:39 left in January of 2001. And um and I started um I started a law firm, my own
125:41 started um I started a law firm, my own law firm. And I and I did kind of um
125:44 law firm. And I and I did kind of um advisory work for um as related to the
125:47 advisory work for um as related to the you know what I knew about um privacy
125:49 you know what I knew about um privacy and the new world of e-commerce. And
125:51 and the new world of e-commerce. And there was an enormous amount of
125:52 there was an enormous amount of opportunity in that at that time because
125:54 opportunity in that at that time because it was the.com bubble. So I had a lot of
125:56 it was the.com bubble. So I had a lot of people that I had gone to college with
125:58 people that I had gone to college with and law school with and on paper that
126:00 and law school with and on paper that were like killing it. You know what I
126:01 were like killing it. You know what I mean? they that they were you know they
126:03 mean? they that they were you know they started.com whatever and it was you know
126:07 started.com whatever and it was you know uh and there was an enormous need for
126:09 uh and there was an enormous need for legal representation and understanding
126:12 legal representation and understanding of the kind of regulatory framework that
126:14 of the kind of regulatory framework that these new e-commerce with uh you know
126:19 these new e-commerce with uh you know entities were going to operate and so I
126:21 entities were going to operate and so I started a law firm uh with that in mind
126:24 started a law firm uh with that in mind and then
126:25 and then you know it was the.com bubble burst and
126:29 you know it was the.com bubble burst and um And I had a friend uh uh a Jesuit um
126:37 um And I had a friend uh uh a Jesuit um uh uh priest who had become president of
126:42 uh uh priest who had become president of uh of St. Joseph's University at the
126:45 uh of St. Joseph's University at the time and um and they had a program in um
126:51 time and um and they had a program in um in which they got uh an earmark what
126:53 in which they got uh an earmark what they called it at the time and uh and
126:56 they called it at the time and uh and for a program in which they sent their
127:00 for a program in which they sent their graduate education students into the
127:03 graduate education students into the poorest school in Philadelphia in which
127:07 poorest school in Philadelphia in which uh they sent basically student teachers
127:11 uh they sent basically student teachers in to fill in the gaps in Overbrook High
127:14 in to fill in the gaps in Overbrook High School in the Overbrook uh school system
127:16 School in the Overbrook uh school system [snorts] and they've been doing it for
127:18 [snorts] and they've been doing it for years and if you know anything about
127:20 years and if you know anything about Jesuit universities they're the oldest
127:22 Jesuit universities they're the oldest organizations almost I mean they're
127:25 organizations almost I mean they're they're the almost always the oldest
127:27 they're the almost always the oldest community organizations in any city that
127:29 community organizations in any city that you go to. So whether it's St. shows in
127:32 you go to. So whether it's St. shows in Philadelphia or whether it's been there
127:33 Philadelphia or whether it's been there for 120 years or Georgetown University
127:35 for 120 years or Georgetown University was been there for 200 years or
127:37 was been there for 200 years or University of Denver that's been there
127:39 University of Denver that's been there for you know I mean you go down the list
127:41 for you know I mean you go down the list University of San Francisco been there
127:43 University of San Francisco been there 140 years Detroit Mercy had been there
127:45 140 years Detroit Mercy had been there for you know it's the only university
127:46 for you know it's the only university left inside the city ind the the city
127:49 left inside the city ind the the city limits of Detroit
127:51 limits of Detroit so father uh that at uh the president of
127:56 so father uh that at uh the president of the university asked me if I could help
127:57 the university asked me if I could help him do that and I did and I helped him
128:00 him do that and I did and I helped him uh uh and kind of navigating um
128:03 uh uh and kind of navigating um Congress, the House of Representatives
128:05 Congress, the House of Representatives in terms of figuring out who his
128:07 in terms of figuring out who his representatives were. I think it was
128:08 representatives were. I think it was Chaka Fata at that at the time and where
128:11 Chaka Fata at that at the time and where it would go in a in a in a earmark. And
128:14 it would go in a in a in a earmark. And they got the um I don't know what it was
128:17 they got the um I don't know what it was uh $50,000 um uh you know, a semester to
128:21 uh $50,000 um uh you know, a semester to be able to um send students to fill in
128:25 be able to um send students to fill in the gaps in this impoverished um school
128:27 the gaps in this impoverished um school system.
128:29 system. And then he referred me to a the
128:32 And then he referred me to a the president of Detroit Mercy. And Detroit
128:35 president of Detroit Mercy. And Detroit Mercy was the only dental school, but it
128:38 Mercy was the only dental school, but it was the only dentist in the entire city
128:42 was the only dentist in the entire city of Detroit at the time. So every other
128:44 of Detroit at the time. So every other dentist had moved out to the suburbs,
128:46 dentist had moved out to the suburbs, but within the city limits of Detroit,
128:48 but within the city limits of Detroit, there literally was not one dentist
128:49 there literally was not one dentist office. Wow. And so what they wanted to
128:51 office. Wow. And so what they wanted to do is they wanted to take their um the
128:53 do is they wanted to take their um the dental school which was serving the
128:55 dental school which was serving the community at the time free and do mobile
128:58 community at the time free and do mobile dental clinics so that they could do
129:00 dental clinics so that they could do preventative care throughout these
129:02 preventative care throughout these neighborhoods. And and so I helped them
129:05 neighborhoods. And and so I helped them to get the money for that. And then I
129:07 to get the money for that. And then I went to um and then I got referred to
129:10 went to um and then I got referred to Xavier and Xavier University. They had a
129:13 Xavier and Xavier University. They had a veterans program where they took
129:15 veterans program where they took disabled vets that were coming back um
129:18 disabled vets that were coming back um from uh from Iraq and Afghanistan and
129:21 from uh from Iraq and Afghanistan and that this is like 2004 at the time and
129:24 that this is like 2004 at the time and veterans community in which they gave
129:27 veterans community in which they gave them a uh uh uh they enrolled them at
129:29 them a uh uh uh they enrolled them at Xavier University but they also had them
129:32 Xavier University but they also had them do community work as it related to I
129:34 do community work as it related to I forget what the exact uh what it was but
129:37 forget what the exact uh what it was but it was for disabled vets in Xavier
129:39 it was for disabled vets in Xavier University. And so I helped them get
129:41 University. And so I helped them get money to do that and list goes on and I
129:43 money to do that and list goes on and I ended up representing like I don't know
129:46 ended up representing like I don't know I think it was at the height of it like
129:48 I think it was at the height of it like 14 15 Jesuit universities and that was
129:50 14 15 Jesuit universities and that was my entire practice. I was really proud
129:52 my entire practice. I was really proud of it.
129:53 of it. >> Wow.
129:53 >> Wow. >> Yeah.
129:54 >> Yeah. >> That's solid work.
129:55 >> That's solid work. >> And [clears throat] then at that time I
129:57 >> And [clears throat] then at that time I went on the board of uh Amtrak. I became
130:01 went on the board of uh Amtrak. I became the uh vice chairman and actually got
130:03 the uh vice chairman and actually got elected to be the chairman of the board
130:04 elected to be the chairman of the board of Amtrak after serving on it for over
130:06 of Amtrak after serving on it for over seven six years. and
130:10 seven six years. and and I had by that time gone on to the
130:12 and I had by that time gone on to the board of the US UN World Food Program
130:14 board of the US UN World Food Program which was the largest humanitarian
130:16 which was the largest humanitarian organization in the world. Uh serving 80
130:19 organization in the world. Uh serving 80 million people a day in 72 different
130:22 million people a day in 72 different countries, winner of the Nobel Peace
130:24 countries, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. Um uh and I had uh and eventually
130:30 Prize. Um uh and I had uh and eventually became chairman of that board. I was
130:32 became chairman of that board. I was senator um uh vice chairman of the board
130:34 senator um uh vice chairman of the board for Truman National Security Project
130:36 for Truman National Security Project which put uh veterans that were looking
130:38 which put uh veterans that were looking to enter political office and we
130:40 to enter political office and we supported them the center for national
130:42 supported them the center for national policy. I became a adjunct professor at
130:45 policy. I became a adjunct professor at the um at Georgetown University's uh
130:48 the um at Georgetown University's uh school of foreign service um in the
130:50 school of foreign service um in the master's program and I taught a course
130:53 master's program and I taught a course called the art of advocacy in and
130:55 called the art of advocacy in and outside of government. It was the idea
130:57 outside of government. It was the idea that you could uh the way in which you
130:59 that you could uh the way in which you could use your influence to be able to
131:01 could use your influence to be able to do good things for good people. And so
131:04 do good things for good people. And so one of the the case studies that we used
131:07 one of the the case studies that we used for that was the creation of PEPAR and
131:09 for that was the creation of PEPAR and the um in the way in which you had
131:11 the um in the way in which you had bipartisan support that uh to institute
131:14 bipartisan support that uh to institute a policy which eventually um has saved
131:17 a policy which eventually um has saved over 25 million lives.
131:19 over 25 million lives. >> Wow. And um and I taught that class for
131:23 >> Wow. And um and I taught that class for four years. And um and then my dad ran
131:26 four years. And um and then my dad ran for to uh for president, lost, and then
131:29 for to uh for president, lost, and then Obama picked him to be um
131:33 Obama picked him to be um uh to be vice president.
131:36 uh to be vice president. And in so doing,
131:40 And in so doing, he had a group of people that I find to
131:42 he had a group of people that I find to be really distasteful and hypocrites,
131:44 be really distasteful and hypocrites, but they uh uh they you said that I
131:50 but they uh uh they you said that I needed to uh uh they to give up my
131:53 needed to uh uh they to give up my because it was, you know, I was uh
131:56 because it was, you know, I was uh working for these universities, but I
131:58 working for these universities, but I was assisting them both in the legal and
132:00 was assisting them both in the legal and the policy perspective and lobbying to
132:02 the policy perspective and lobbying to help them get money to do these programs
132:06 help them get money to do these programs And you know, so you know, it was, you
132:09 And you know, so you know, it was, you know, I was a lobbyist and um and so
132:13 know, I was a lobbyist and um and so I voluntarily, but with a lot of
132:16 I voluntarily, but with a lot of pressure from them, none from my dad,
132:18 pressure from them, none from my dad, had to give up that business. And um and
132:22 had to give up that business. And um and so I basically started back in square
132:24 so I basically started back in square one and I started a consulting firm
132:28 one and I started a consulting firm because I also stepped down from the
132:29 because I also stepped down from the board of Amtrak because they said that
132:31 board of Amtrak because they said that that was a conflict of interest. Uh, and
132:34 that was a conflict of interest. Uh, and they were concerned that it was conflict
132:35 they were concerned that it was conflict of interest.
132:36 of interest. >> So, you had to shut pretty much
132:37 >> So, you had to shut pretty much everything down. Shut everything down.
132:39 everything down. Shut everything down. Fact that your dad just took VP.
132:41 Fact that your dad just took VP. >> Yeah. And I had to rebuild and I didn't
132:42 >> Yeah. And I had to rebuild and I didn't have any savings. I had three girls all
132:44 have any savings. I had three girls all private school at the time and you know
132:46 private school at the time and you know don't have any money. And so anyway,
132:48 don't have any money. And so anyway, regardless, not in any different
132:50 regardless, not in any different position than a lot of people is I had
132:53 position than a lot of people is I had to figure it out again. And so what I
132:55 to figure it out again. And so what I did is I started a consulting uh uh
132:57 did is I started a consulting uh uh company but mainly focused on
132:59 company but mainly focused on infrastructure in rail because I knew a
133:01 infrastructure in rail because I knew a lot about rail by this point. having
133:03 lot about rail by this point. having served on the board of Amtrak for as
133:05 served on the board of Amtrak for as long as I did and there was a lot of
133:07 long as I did and there was a lot of potential private projects that were
133:09 potential private projects that were going on as a that you know have all
133:12 going on as a that you know have all fizzled out over the years. But I worked
133:14 fizzled out over the years. But I worked I represented a a
133:17 I represented a a really old large Midwestern
133:20 really old large Midwestern infrastructure um uh firm like guys to
133:23 infrastructure um uh firm like guys to actually you know dig the tunnels and
133:25 actually you know dig the tunnels and and build the rails and um and I uh and
133:29 and build the rails and um and I uh and I and I advised them from you know
133:31 I and I advised them from you know projects in anywhere from Baltimore to
133:35 projects in anywhere from Baltimore to you know Beijing if they were interested
133:37 you know Beijing if they were interested um uh with just an understanding of how
133:40 um uh with just an understanding of how the process works. And so
133:44 the process works. And so that was I that was what I did. I was
133:46 that was I that was what I did. I was consulting on basically infrastructure
133:48 consulting on basically infrastructure projects and things like that. And then
133:50 projects and things like that. And then um and then I began to consult um uh for
133:55 um and then I began to consult um uh for uh
133:57 uh uh groups that were looking to raise
133:59 uh groups that were looking to raise capital. So infrastructure private
134:01 capital. So infrastructure private equity firms that were looking for
134:02 equity firms that were looking for institutional capital to put into the
134:04 institutional capital to put into the private equity firms to be able to
134:06 private equity firms to be able to invest in infrastructure projects mainly
134:08 invest in infrastructure projects mainly all domestic. And so I uh uh partnered
134:12 all domestic. And so I uh uh partnered with someone that had a long-term
134:14 with someone that had a long-term experience. One of my partners got his
134:15 experience. One of my partners got his series 7. we started an investment
134:18 series 7. we started an investment advisory firm um and uh on top of the
134:22 advisory firm um and uh on top of the infrastructure advisory firm and um and
134:26 infrastructure advisory firm and um and that's what we did for um you know as I
134:28 that's what we did for um you know as I taught as I was chairman of the board of
134:30 taught as I was chairman of the board of the world food program as I was vice
134:32 the world food program as I was vice chairman of the board of center for
134:33 chairman of the board of center for national policy the true national
134:35 national policy the true national security project you know I was on the
134:37 security project you know I was on the board of Catholic Charities I was on the
134:38 board of Catholic Charities I was on the board of about I think at least a dozen
134:42 board of about I think at least a dozen if not more uh you know uh small medium
134:46 if not more uh you know uh small medium large uh major institutions and so you
134:49 large uh major institutions and so you know I mean for instance on board of
134:50 know I mean for instance on board of Amtrak I was the chair of the corporate
134:52 Amtrak I was the chair of the corporate governance board for six year period of
134:54 governance board for six year period of time and I also took a job as the um
134:59 time and I also took a job as the um as the uh uh of council to um at the
135:03 as the uh uh of council to um at the time I think was probably the most
135:05 time I think was probably the most significant law school law firm in the
135:07 significant law school law firm in the in the country which was Boyce Schiller
135:09 in the country which was Boyce Schiller Flexner and I was off council boy
135:11 Flexner and I was off council boy Flexner and I focused on corporate
135:13 Flexner and I focused on corporate governance. Yeah. And so that's when we
135:18 governance. Yeah. And so that's when we come to Burisma.
135:25 And the way that Berisma came to me was through a partner, a guy that I and that
135:28 through a partner, a guy that I and that one not a partner as much as a what I
135:31 one not a partner as much as a what I potential partner who I who
135:34 potential partner who I who I had a great relationship. And then um
135:38 I had a great relationship. And then um uh anyway, it doesn't matter.
135:46 Uh he just got a pardon from Donald Trump. [laughter]
135:47 Trump. [laughter] >> What did he get pardoned for?
135:49 >> What did he get pardoned for? >> No, he he ripped off some um uh uh a
135:54 >> No, he he ripped off some um uh uh a Native American tribe and some bond deal
135:56 Native American tribe and some bond deal that he did with some uh grifter and and
135:59 that he did with some uh grifter and and anyway, I a huge disappointment. But
136:01 anyway, I a huge disappointment. But anyway, he introduced me to the uh to
136:04 anyway, he introduced me to the uh to Burisma and um and Berisma
136:09 Burisma and um and Berisma uh this is right after the Russians I
136:12 uh this is right after the Russians I mean the Russians already taking Crimea
136:14 mean the Russians already taking Crimea but they had made a inroads into Donbass
136:16 but they had made a inroads into Donbass and and Daesk and remember they were
136:19 and and Daesk and remember they were that that significant incursion um uh
136:23 that that significant incursion um uh past Crimea into the uh into the eastern
136:26 past Crimea into the uh into the eastern um uh part of Ukraine and Berisma. It
136:30 um uh part of Ukraine and Berisma. It was the uh largest independent
136:33 was the uh largest independent completely independent natural gas uh uh
136:36 completely independent natural gas uh uh driller in Ukraine. Um and NapG which is
136:41 driller in Ukraine. Um and NapG which is um probably one of the most corrupt
136:43 um probably one of the most corrupt organizations worlds is the stateowned
136:46 organizations worlds is the stateowned natural natural gas entity in Ukraine.
136:49 natural natural gas entity in Ukraine. And one of the things that is beyond the
136:52 And one of the things that is beyond the potential rare earth minerals, the most
136:54 potential rare earth minerals, the most lucrative uh uh commodity in Ukraine um
136:58 lucrative uh uh commodity in Ukraine um other than the um uh the level of
137:01 other than the um uh the level of education of their um uh other
137:03 education of their um uh other population is natural gas
137:07 population is natural gas and berisma
137:09 and berisma was under direct threat from Putin. I
137:12 was under direct threat from Putin. I mean that's what basically why Putin
137:16 mean that's what basically why Putin wants that particular part of Ukraine
137:19 wants that particular part of Ukraine also is the uh natural resources and
137:22 also is the uh natural resources and also the fact that he runs pipelines
137:24 also the fact that he runs pipelines through uh through Ukraine to to Europe
137:28 through uh through Ukraine to to Europe and there was a board member who's a guy
137:32 and there was a board member who's a guy named uh presidentski who is the first
137:35 named uh presidentski who is the first democratically elected president of
137:36 democratically elected president of Poland outside like Valencia um after
137:39 Poland outside like Valencia um after like Valencia wasn't democratically
137:41 like Valencia wasn't democratically elected the uh in a and a champion of
137:45 elected the uh in a and a champion of democracy and and uh in a in uh in a
137:50 democracy and and uh in a in uh in a postsviet um Europe um Eastern Europe
137:54 postsviet um Europe um Eastern Europe and he was on the board and he made an
137:55 and he was on the board and he made an argument to me that um they were worth
137:58 argument to me that um they were worth representing because I said that I would
137:59 representing because I said that I would talk to them if they wanted to talk to
138:01 talk to them if they wanted to talk to me about um uh representation through
138:04 me about um uh representation through Boyce Schiller and there was an enormous
138:07 Boyce Schiller and there was an enormous amount of of uh subject matter expertise
138:10 amount of of uh subject matter expertise in Boyill Um there are two partners that
138:13 in Boyill Um there are two partners that were very steeped and that had worked
138:15 were very steeped and that had worked both at the CIA and the State Department
138:16 both at the CIA and the State Department and in uh in um in the last
138:20 and in uh in um in the last administration that were very steeped in
138:23 administration that were very steeped in uh uh Ukraine and issues as relates to
138:25 uh uh Ukraine and issues as relates to Ukraine. And that's what lawyers do. And
138:27 Ukraine. And that's what lawyers do. And so I said you should talk to them and
138:29 so I said you should talk to them and they did. And they and I um and they
138:32 they did. And they and I um and they came in through me as a um you know the
138:35 came in through me as a um you know the referring partner um uh you know of
138:38 referring partner um uh you know of council member you know and
138:41 council member you know and in in talking to them you know I I
138:46 in in talking to them you know I I became convinced by President Kafneski
138:48 became convinced by President Kafneski that I should join the board and he said
138:52 that I should join the board and he said look
138:54 look the CEO of the company is not a um is is
138:58 the CEO of the company is not a um is is no you know uh Uh he's angel. Um but
139:03 no you know uh Uh he's angel. Um but he's not one of the bad guys. He's a guy
139:05 he's not one of the bad guys. He's a guy that's under threat from the real bad
139:06 that's under threat from the real bad guys. the Dmitri Fertashes of the world
139:10 guys. the Dmitri Fertashes of the world who were controlling NAFTA gas and um uh
139:14 who were controlling NAFTA gas and um uh and you know was wanted up until I think
139:17 and you know was wanted up until I think like three days ago um uh you know
139:19 like three days ago um uh you know extradited by the United States for uh
139:22 extradited by the United States for uh for I don't know 47 different RICO
139:24 for I don't know 47 different RICO charges and bribery and is connected
139:26 charges and bribery and is connected directly to um you know to Putin who had
139:30 directly to um you know to Putin who had been basically siphoning all the money
139:32 been basically siphoning all the money of NAFTA gas back into Russia. um th
139:37 of NAFTA gas back into Russia. um th those are the people that he was that
139:39 those are the people that he was that the CEO of Berisma were set up against
139:41 the CEO of Berisma were set up against and they were uh like uh wolves at the
139:45 and they were uh like uh wolves at the gate and trying to take over Berisma.
139:48 gate and trying to take over Berisma. And he said, you know, and
139:52 And he said, you know, and you just simply by being on the board
139:54 you just simply by being on the board would be a message. It would be a
139:56 would be a message. It would be a message. And I'll tell you what is that
139:59 message. And I'll tell you what is that it is well worth your um uh while. And
140:03 it is well worth your um uh while. And so two things is that I did believe in
140:06 so two things is that I did believe in it. I had done a cruel report and I'd
140:08 it. I had done a cruel report and I'd done a uh uh Nordelloo um uh security
140:12 done a uh uh Nordelloo um uh security report on the firm while I was at Boy
140:15 report on the firm while I was at Boy Schiller and working for them as an
140:17 Schiller and working for them as an attorney for the about two-month period
140:18 attorney for the about two-month period of time before they asked me to go on
140:20 of time before they asked me to go on the board. And then he made a real push
140:23 the board. And then he made a real push for me to go on the board and I made the
140:25 for me to go on the board and I made the decision to go on the board. And this
140:29 decision to go on the board. And this idea that I didn't have any expertise or
140:31 idea that I didn't have any expertise or I didn't know what I was talking about
140:33 I didn't know what I was talking about or that I didn't have any experience
140:34 or that I didn't have any experience with Bors or that I didn't speak
140:36 with Bors or that I didn't speak Ukrainian or I didn't know about the I
140:38 Ukrainian or I didn't know about the I mean it's all [ __ ] All complete and
140:40 mean it's all [ __ ] All complete and utter absolute [ __ ] in which they
140:43 utter absolute [ __ ] in which they try to paint me as not having as much
140:45 try to paint me as not having as much experience as you know Don Jr. who just
140:48 experience as you know Don Jr. who just got a $695 contract from a $695 million
140:52 got a $695 contract from a $695 million contract for a startup priv uh private
140:54 contract for a startup priv uh private equity firm for a startup drone company
140:57 equity firm for a startup drone company that he's you know with 30 employees you
140:59 that he's you know with 30 employees you know in like I mean I I am uh almost
141:04 know in like I mean I I am uh almost beyond offended uh you know the idea
141:08 beyond offended uh you know the idea that
141:10 that certain people in the in that world have
141:13 certain people in the in that world have painted of me as being a near dwell you
141:16 painted of me as being a near dwell you know kind of drifter that you that cut
141:18 know kind of drifter that you that cut on the board. Was it a mistake to go on
141:20 on the board. Was it a mistake to go on the board? Yeah. Yeah, it was absolutely
141:26 the board? Yeah. Yeah, it was absolutely a uh mistake. Not because of anything
141:31 a uh mistake. Not because of anything that I did that I am embarrassed about
141:33 that I did that I am embarrassed about or in any way whatsoever feel conflicted
141:37 or in any way whatsoever feel conflicted about as it relates to what I did for
141:38 about as it relates to what I did for Bisma, but because of the political
141:40 Bisma, but because of the political position that put that that put us all
141:42 position that put that that put us all in. They use that as the as the the toe
141:45 in. They use that as the as the the toe in the door to be able to call my
141:48 in the door to be able to call my family, the Biden crime family, without
141:50 family, the Biden crime family, without any evidence. The person that said that
141:53 any evidence. The person that said that Joe Biden took a bribe
141:56 Joe Biden took a bribe to like, you know, protect Berisma is
141:59 to like, you know, protect Berisma is sitting in a jail cell.
142:02 sitting in a jail cell. Sitting in a jail cell
142:04 Sitting in a jail cell for lying to the FBI.
142:07 for lying to the FBI. And meanwhile, there still is this like
142:13 And meanwhile, there still is this like lingering question that people have
142:15 lingering question that people have about Berisma. So I guess before I
142:17 about Berisma. So I guess before I continue to just like go on is that what
142:20 continue to just like go on is that what do you think happened in Berisma?
142:23 do you think happened in Berisma? >> I mean I think that I mean just a little
142:26 >> I mean I think that I mean just a little more context for on Barisma. been
142:29 more context for on Barisma. been Barisma. Would you would it be fair to
142:31 Barisma. Would you would it be fair to say that Barisma could have potentially
142:40 supplied the vast majority of natural gas to Europe?
142:42 gas to Europe? >> No.
142:42 >> No. >> No,
142:43 >> No, >> no, not absolutely not. Briema's almost
142:45 >> no, not absolutely not. Briema's almost all of Briezma's natural gas um uh uh
142:51 all of Briezma's natural gas um uh uh supply that production was internal to
142:54 supply that production was internal to Ukraine, Ukrainian industry,
142:57 Ukraine, Ukrainian industry, >> would you? Okay. Yeah. But that could
143:00 >> would you? Okay. Yeah. But that could have supplied that could have been a
143:01 have supplied that could have been a major supply to
143:04 major supply to do all of Europe. Correct.
143:06 do all of Europe. Correct. >> Well, only if they wanted only if they
143:08 >> Well, only if they wanted only if they wanted to drain uh Ukraine of the of the
143:11 wanted to drain uh Ukraine of the of the vital natural gas that they need to run
143:12 vital natural gas that they need to run their economy. But yeah, the the the uh
143:16 their economy. But yeah, the the the uh but [snorts] no, Burisma did not have
143:18 but [snorts] no, Burisma did not have the capacity was not large enough to
143:20 the capacity was not large enough to supply all the natural gas needs of of
143:22 supply all the natural gas needs of of in any way shape close even remotely of
143:25 in any way shape close even remotely of of the needs of Germany alone.
143:28 of the needs of Germany alone. >> Okay.
143:29 >> Okay. >> The production was not nearly that big.
143:31 >> The production was not nearly that big. >> No.
143:32 >> No. >> Could it have been though with if we
143:34 >> Could it have been though with if we built up the infrastructure? Were the
143:36 built up the infrastructure? Were the was the resources there that could have
143:39 was the resources there that could have implemented that kind of infrastructure?
143:41 implemented that kind of infrastructure? You build up the infrastructure of
143:42 You build up the infrastructure of NAFTA, the stateowned company
143:45 NAFTA, the stateowned company potentially,
143:46 potentially, >> but not even remotely for Berezeman. No,
143:49 >> but not even remotely for Berezeman. No, >> I think that I think that if look, if I
143:55 >> I think that I think that if look, if I was the owner of the of a company
143:57 was the owner of the of a company >> Yeah.
143:57 >> Yeah. >> that had that kind of that kind of
143:59 >> that had that kind of that kind of resource,
144:00 resource, >> Yeah.
144:01 >> Yeah. >> I would very much want the president of
144:03 >> I would very much want the president of the United States son on my board.
144:06 the United States son on my board. >> Oh, by the way, Sean, I don't there's no
144:09 >> Oh, by the way, Sean, I don't there's no doubt.
144:10 doubt. >> Or vice president. Yeah. At that time,
144:11 >> Or vice president. Yeah. At that time, >> not but by the way, not for any specific
144:13 >> not but by the way, not for any specific endgame like that.
144:15 endgame like that. >> Mhm.
144:15 >> Mhm. >> I I'm I'm absolutely certain that that
144:17 >> I I'm I'm absolutely certain that that was not I think that what he was afraid
144:19 was not I think that what he was afraid of is that he was going to get killed.
144:22 of is that he was going to get killed. >> I'm positive that the CEO of NA was not
144:24 >> I'm positive that the CEO of NA was not by anybody in the United States is that
144:27 by anybody in the United States is that he was going to get killed by Putin.
144:29 he was going to get killed by Putin. >> Mhm.
144:29 >> Mhm. >> And so he 100% thought that by bringing
144:33 >> And so he 100% thought that by bringing me on board, number one is that I was
144:35 me on board, number one is that I was absolutely qualified. Number two is that
144:38 absolutely qualified. Number two is that I demanded that we be transparent about
144:39 I demanded that we be transparent about it. You realize I went on the board and
144:41 it. You realize I went on the board and I put out a press release saying that I
144:43 I put out a press release saying that I went on the board.
144:44 went on the board. >> I wasn't hiding it from anybody.
144:47 >> I wasn't hiding it from anybody. And who else was on the board? [snorts]
144:50 And who else was on the board? [snorts] And I'm absolutely certain that the that
144:54 And I'm absolutely certain that the that part of of the reason that he wanted me
144:57 part of of the reason that he wanted me on the board was for protection for he
145:01 on the board was for protection for he thought that if at least that he was
145:02 thought that if at least that he was associated with with with that name that
145:05 associated with with with that name that it would give him some protection from
145:08 it would give him some protection from the the forces of the Russian force
145:11 the the forces of the Russian force forces writ large
145:14 forces writ large that were out to literally bury him.
145:17 that were out to literally bury him. >> Mhm.
145:17 >> Mhm. >> So I don't have any doubt about that.
145:19 >> So I don't have any doubt about that. Was [snorts]
145:20 Was [snorts] there some All I All I know is this is
145:24 there some All I All I know is this is that I served my five years on the
145:26 that I served my five years on the board. No one ever asked me to do
145:29 board. No one ever asked me to do anything
145:31 anything that my dad had any control of. And
145:33 that my dad had any control of. And three of the years in which I was on on
145:35 three of the years in which I was on on the board, three and a half of the years
145:37 the board, three and a half of the years which I was on the board, my dad wasn't
145:38 which I was on the board, my dad wasn't in office.
145:41 in office. I took that job because it afforded me
145:43 I took that job because it afforded me the opportunity to do do two things.
145:46 the opportunity to do do two things. Number one is that I felt incredibly
145:48 Number one is that I felt incredibly comfortable serving on a board just from
145:50 comfortable serving on a board just from a capacity and the confidence of being
145:52 a capacity and the confidence of being able to be able of of uh of value that I
145:56 able to be able of of uh of value that I was being paid to do something that I
145:58 was being paid to do something that I had the capacity and was capable of
145:59 had the capacity and was capable of doing. Number one. And number two, it
146:03 doing. Number one. And number two, it gave me freedom because they paid me a
146:05 gave me freedom because they paid me a [ __ ] lot of money.
146:06 [ __ ] lot of money. >> Mhm.
146:07 >> Mhm. >> And my brother had just been diagnosed
146:08 >> And my brother had just been diagnosed with a uh with cancer and a incurable
146:12 with a uh with cancer and a incurable form of cancer. And so it gave me an
146:15 form of cancer. And so it gave me an enormous amount of of of uh of space to
146:18 enormous amount of of of uh of space to be able to spend time and do that. And
146:20 be able to spend time and do that. And I'm not saying like I did it for my
146:21 I'm not saying like I did it for my brother. I'm a saint and that's the only
146:23 brother. I'm a saint and that's the only reason I did it. That's [ __ ]
146:26 reason I did it. That's [ __ ] I did it because it paid well and I knew
146:29 I did it because it paid well and I knew where the lines were and that's what I
146:32 where the lines were and that's what I did.
146:33 did. >> Do you think that it would have been
146:36 >> Do you think that it would have been in our intelligence agency's best
146:38 in our intelligence agency's best interest for you to be on that board?
146:40 interest for you to be on that board? >> No. I now
146:41 >> No. I now >> not that they manipulated you. just do
146:43 >> not that they manipulated you. just do you think it would be in their best
146:45 you think it would be in their best interest to have
146:46 interest to have >> in our in our intelligence?
146:53 >> I think it ends up being that it was in a lot of people's best interests other
146:55 a lot of people's best interests other that that were not mine nor my father's.
146:58 that that were not mine nor my father's. >> So it could be yes
147:00 >> So it could be yes >> that all of these things are true at the
147:02 >> that all of these things are true at the same time. What being that? What all of
147:04 same time. What being that? What all of what things
147:05 what things >> that intelligence agencies wanted you in
147:07 >> that intelligence agencies wanted you in there that that it that the the the that
147:11 there that that it that the the the that the the guy that wanted protection, he
147:13 the the guy that wanted protection, he wanted you in there for protection and
147:16 wanted you in there for protection and also wheeling and dealing in the future.
147:18 also wheeling and dealing in the future. >> Yeah. I think
147:19 >> Yeah. I think >> I think that all these things,
147:20 >> I think that all these things, >> you know, could could uh
147:22 >> you know, could could uh >> Yeah.
147:23 >> Yeah. >> be true at the same time.
147:24 >> be true at the same time. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I think I think that
147:27 >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I think I think that you're right. and and you know I I
147:29 you're right. and and you know I I refrained from doing this in terms of
147:31 refrained from doing this in terms of like the what aboutism is that I didn't
147:33 like the what aboutism is that I didn't go work for the Ukrainian government. I
147:35 go work for the Ukrainian government. I didn't go work for um for instance the
147:38 didn't go work for um for instance the Saudis. I didn't go work for the
147:41 Saudis. I didn't go work for the Albanians. I didn't go work for the
147:44 Albanians. I didn't go work for the Serbians. I didn't go work for the
147:47 Serbians. I didn't go work for the Amiradis. I didn't go work for the
147:50 Amiradis. I didn't go work for the Qataris. I didn't take money for the
147:52 Qataris. I didn't take money for the purposes of changing US policy as it
147:55 purposes of changing US policy as it relates to weapon systems or individuals
147:59 relates to weapon systems or individuals that um were murdered or anything like
148:02 that um were murdered or anything like that.
148:03 that. And I got paid a amount that I was
148:07 And I got paid a amount that I was transparent about what I got paid. I
148:08 transparent about what I got paid. I served my five years on the board. Three
148:10 served my five years on the board. Three of which were when my father was not in
148:13 of which were when my father was not in office in any shape or form.
148:16 office in any shape or form. And then I left. And so whether those
148:20 And then I left. And so whether those things could have happened as it relates
148:21 things could have happened as it relates to me, sure. Are those things happening
148:24 to me, sure. Are those things happening not just in front of our faces, but like
148:27 not just in front of our faces, but like like you might as well be coming and
148:30 like you might as well be coming and slapping us in the face. Mhm.
148:31 slapping us in the face. Mhm. >> Jared Kushner is right now negotiating a
148:36 >> Jared Kushner is right now negotiating a peace deal with the Ukrainians and the
148:39 peace deal with the Ukrainians and the Russians with direct interest as it
148:42 Russians with direct interest as it relates to the energy um uh uh uh the
148:45 relates to the energy um uh uh uh the the energy interest inside of Russia and
148:48 the energy interest inside of Russia and their partners whether it's in India the
148:49 their partners whether it's in India the Saudi Arabia or what's going about to
148:51 Saudi Arabia or what's going about to happen with Nordstream pipeline a direct
148:54 happen with Nordstream pipeline a direct interest of which he's been taking $2.5
148:59 interest of which he's been taking $2.5 billion dollars from partners
149:01 billion dollars from partners to impact those changes.
149:08 I served on the board for two years. You have every email that I've ever sent,
149:10 have every email that I've ever sent, every text message that I've ever sent,
149:12 every text message that I've ever sent, every single communication that I have
149:14 every single communication that I have ever had, including during that period
149:16 ever had, including during that period of time. And there is not a single
149:18 of time. And there is not a single communication other than the one thing
149:22 communication other than the one thing that they hung their hat on is a guy
149:24 that they hung their hat on is a guy that was in Washington DC at the time,
149:26 that was in Washington DC at the time, was the secretary to the board, said,
149:27 was the secretary to the board, said, "Hey, Hunter, thank you. It was nice
149:29 "Hey, Hunter, thank you. It was nice meeting your dad. And when she was
149:31 meeting your dad. And when she was walking out of a restaurant and my dad
149:33 walking out of a restaurant and my dad was walking into a restaurant with me
149:36 was walking into a restaurant with me and I introduced the two of them and
149:38 and I introduced the two of them and that's it.
149:41 that's it. >> I think
149:42 >> I think >> we started an impeachment investigation
149:44 >> we started an impeachment investigation over this.
149:44 over this. >> I think one thing, one question that a
149:47 >> I think one thing, one question that a lot of people have is
149:50 lot of people have is the 10% for the big guy remark.
149:53 the 10% for the big guy remark. >> Not from me. And I'll tell you exactly
149:55 >> Not from me. And I'll tell you exactly what it was. is from a guy named James
149:58 what it was. is from a guy named James Gilliard along with Tony uh uh Bob
150:02 Gilliard along with Tony uh uh Bob something. Yeah. Tony Babalinsky who
150:05 something. Yeah. Tony Babalinsky who claims to have known me so well. You
150:06 claims to have known me so well. You know how many times I met Tony
150:07 know how many times I met Tony Babalinsky?
150:08 Babalinsky? >> Maybe four, maybe three times in which I
150:11 >> Maybe four, maybe three times in which I told him to go [ __ ] himself and that I
150:13 told him to go [ __ ] himself and that I wouldn't do business with him.
150:16 wouldn't do business with him. In which they're negotiating a deal not
150:18 In which they're negotiating a deal not having, by the way, anything to do with
150:21 having, by the way, anything to do with with Bisma. Nothing to do with Berisma.
150:25 with Bisma. Nothing to do with Berisma. It had to do with a entity that had a
150:30 It had to do with a entity that had a was starting a US entity of a Chinese
150:32 was starting a US entity of a Chinese energy firm in which they wanted to
150:35 energy firm in which they wanted to partner and create an investment vehicle
150:39 partner and create an investment vehicle and
150:41 and James Gillard sends a email not me sends
150:45 James Gillard sends a email not me sends an email to six other people including
150:47 an email to six other people including Tony Bolinsky in which I'm CCD on in
150:50 Tony Bolinsky in which I'm CCD on in which he proposes equity splits of which
150:53 which he proposes equity splits of which he says 10% for the big guy.
150:57 he says 10% for the big guy. And I don't know whether what what what
151:00 And I don't know whether what what what uh James Gillard was was referring to
151:03 uh James Gillard was was referring to but I know this is that that structure
151:08 but I know this is that that structure that proposed group of people of
151:10 that proposed group of people of proposed partnership to do like an
151:12 proposed partnership to do like an energy number one was occurring when my
151:15 energy number one was occurring when my dad was out of office and was not a
151:17 dad was out of office and was not a candidate for president and was two
151:19 candidate for president and was two years away from being vice president and
151:21 years away from being vice president and his career public service according to
151:23 his career public service according to everybody else was over. So, number one,
151:26 everybody else was over. So, number one, who gives a [ __ ]
151:29 who gives a [ __ ] Who gives a [ __ ] Number two, I didn't
151:32 Who gives a [ __ ] Number two, I didn't say that. And number three, it never
151:34 say that. And number three, it never happened.
151:36 happened. So, 10% for the big guy. Go [ __ ]
151:38 So, 10% for the big guy. Go [ __ ] yourself.
151:41 yourself. My dad has been My dad has given what,
151:44 My dad has been My dad has given what, 32 years, 40 years of his tax returns.
151:48 32 years, 40 years of his tax returns. You have every tax return I've ever had.
151:52 You have every tax return I've ever had. Everyone. You can go find them on the
151:54 Everyone. You can go find them on the internet.
151:57 internet. I had the DOJ. I had the FBI. I had
152:02 I had the DOJ. I had the FBI. I had Crimax. I had the oversight committee. I
152:05 Crimax. I had the oversight committee. I had the judiciary committee. I had the
152:07 had the judiciary committee. I had the Ways and Means Committee in both the
152:09 Ways and Means Committee in both the House and the Senate. I had the US
152:11 House and the Senate. I had the US attorney's office in LA, in DC, in B
152:15 attorney's office in LA, in DC, in B excuse me, in Baltimore, in Delaware, in
152:18 excuse me, in Baltimore, in Delaware, in Pittsburgh. All investigate me. Holy
152:21 Pittsburgh. All investigate me. Holy [ __ ] all of them at the behest of
152:24 [ __ ] all of them at the behest of Donald Trump beginning in 2017.
152:28 Donald Trump beginning in 2017. And what did they come up with? So you
152:31 And what did they come up with? So you think that there is like some hidden 10%
152:33 think that there is like some hidden 10% for the big guy because this
152:34 for the big guy because this [ __ ] Tony Bubalinsky who's some
152:37 [ __ ] Tony Bubalinsky who's some you know uh you know uh wannabe uh you
152:40 you know uh you know uh wannabe uh you know soldier who tried to convince me
152:43 know soldier who tried to convince me that he was a part of the did what you
152:45 that he was a part of the did what you did was one of those guys. Maybe he is.
152:48 did was one of those guys. Maybe he is. I don't I don't know. But all I know is
152:50 I don't I don't know. But all I know is every guy that I've ever met that did
152:52 every guy that I've ever met that did what you did never told me that they did
152:54 what you did never told me that they did what you did or tried to impress upon me
152:56 what you did or tried to impress upon me that they did. And that's why I told
152:58 that they did. And that's why I told Tony to go [ __ ] himself. They never did
153:01 Tony to go [ __ ] himself. They never did a deal with anybody that suggested 10%
153:04 a deal with anybody that suggested 10% for the big guy, which by the way again
153:07 for the big guy, which by the way again occurred when my dad was neither vice
153:09 occurred when my dad was neither vice president nor president and was never
153:10 president nor president and was never going to be in public life again, even
153:12 going to be in public life again, even if he was. So I'm not baming James
153:14 if he was. So I'm not baming James Gilliard.
153:16 Gilliard. If James Gillard sent that and his
153:18 If James Gillard sent that and his intent was maybe he's going to be able
153:20 intent was maybe he's going to be able to get the former vice president of the
153:23 to get the former vice president of the United States to be, you know, somehow
153:25 United States to be, you know, somehow involved in this,
153:27 involved in this, then why would he be able to say that?
153:30 then why would he be able to say that? >> Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?
153:34 >> Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? He's selling I mean, I will be surprised
153:38 He's selling I mean, I will be surprised if when they leave this White House that
153:40 if when they leave this White House that the copper pipes are still in the walls.
153:44 the copper pipes are still in the walls. I'm not joking.
153:45 I'm not joking. It is the most openly corrupt in
153:48 It is the most openly corrupt in everything that they do, Sean, is
153:50 everything that they do, Sean, is projection or confession. So, I'll say
153:52 projection or confession. So, I'll say it to you again, is that I believe that
153:55 it to you again, is that I believe that it was a mistake because I was very,
153:58 it was a mistake because I was very, very naive about what a viper's den
154:02 very naive about what a viper's den Ukraine is. What an absolute like talk
154:06 Ukraine is. What an absolute like talk about a like a level of corruption that
154:10 about a like a level of corruption that I that I am I still staggering because
154:13 I that I am I still staggering because they're part of a of a kleptocracy of a
154:16 they're part of a of a kleptocracy of a greater kleptocracy which is you know I
154:18 greater kleptocracy which is you know I mean what Russia is nothing more than a
154:22 mean what Russia is nothing more than a you know a country mas a gas station
154:25 you know a country mas a gas station masquerading as a country as John McCain
154:27 masquerading as a country as John McCain used to say with one person that is the
154:30 used to say with one person that is the is the is is the ultimate dawn of all
154:32 is the is is the ultimate dawn of all dons.
154:34 dons. And I don't mean Trump's I mean I mean
154:36 And I don't mean Trump's I mean I mean and that's Putin in which
154:40 and that's Putin in which so getting involved in that anyway even
154:43 so getting involved in that anyway even though it was through a private company
154:45 though it was through a private company even though I served on the board even
154:46 even though I served on the board even though you have every communication I've
154:48 though you have every communication I've ever had even though you have testimony
154:51 ever had even though you have testimony thousands of hours of testimony from
154:52 thousands of hours of testimony from anybody that's worked for my dad under
154:54 anybody that's worked for my dad under oath by the way under oath.
154:58 oath by the way under oath. So
155:01 So when Tony Babalinsky under oath
155:05 when Tony Babalinsky under oath went before the um uh oversight
155:08 went before the um uh oversight committee,
155:09 committee, what did he have to say?
155:12 what did he have to say? What he had to say? What what crime
155:14 What he had to say? What what crime under oath did he accuse me of?
155:16 under oath did he accuse me of? >> He didn't.
155:17 >> He didn't. >> He didn't because he was under oath. But
155:19 >> He didn't because he was under oath. But then you know what he did? He went on to
155:21 then you know what he did? He went on to Fox News and Tuck Carlson and accused me
155:23 Fox News and Tuck Carlson and accused me of crimes. And then Devin went to um uh
155:27 of crimes. And then Devin went to um uh you know Tucker and he literally stuck
155:31 you know Tucker and he literally stuck his lips around the ass of Don Jr. and
155:34 his lips around the ass of Don Jr. and Eric and he got a and he got a pardon
155:36 Eric and he got a and he got a pardon out of it
155:38 out of it and so did his partner that ripped off
155:40 and so did his partner that ripped off the um uh the Indian tribes to the tune
155:43 the um uh the Indian tribes to the tune of millions and millions and millions of
155:45 of millions and millions and millions of dollars of which they were absolved from
155:49 dollars of which they were absolved from having to pay back I think it was like
155:50 having to pay back I think it was like close to $100 million. I don't know the
155:53 close to $100 million. I don't know the exact number. So, you know, don't sue
155:55 exact number. So, you know, don't sue me. I really don't. And I don't know
155:57 me. I really don't. And I don't know anything about it other than is that
156:01 anything about it other than is that everybody under oath, everybody in the
156:04 everybody under oath, everybody in the court of law, look, I was I had a
156:08 court of law, look, I was I had a special prosecutor.
156:15 There was a independent investigation from a special prosecutor of the only US
156:17 from a special prosecutor of the only US attorney left in the United States that
156:19 attorney left in the United States that was appointed by Donald Trump that my
156:21 was appointed by Donald Trump that my dad left in place. And when he was a US
156:24 dad left in place. And when he was a US attorney in Delaware, he came to the
156:26 attorney in Delaware, he came to the conclusion that no charges should be
156:28 conclusion that no charges should be brought against me.
156:31 brought against me. And I went to a um a a we came to a
156:36 And I went to a um a a we came to a resolution in which I was going to plead
156:38 resolution in which I was going to plead guilty to two misdemeanors of failing to
156:40 guilty to two misdemeanors of failing to file my taxes on time because I had
156:42 file my taxes on time because I had already paid them back with penalties
156:43 already paid them back with penalties and interest. I paid over $800,000 in
156:46 and interest. I paid over $800,000 in interest in penalties because during 201
156:50 interest in penalties because during 201 16 and 17 or 15 and 16, I forget because
156:53 16 and 17 or 15 and 16, I forget because the the years is that I literally
156:57 the the years is that I literally was out of my mind and I thought that it
157:00 was out of my mind and I thought that it was being taken care of me. Whatever the
157:02 was being taken care of me. Whatever the reason, I didn't pay my taxes. And when
157:04 reason, I didn't pay my taxes. And when I figured out that I did in 2019, when I
157:06 I figured out that I did in 2019, when I came out of recovery, the first thing I
157:07 came out of recovery, the first thing I did, I went to an accountant and I said,
157:09 did, I went to an accountant and I said, um, you know, I got to figure out my
157:11 um, you know, I got to figure out my taxes. and they gave me the uh the
157:14 taxes. and they gave me the uh the number at the end of the day. And as
157:15 number at the end of the day. And as soon as I got the number of what I owed
157:17 soon as I got the number of what I owed with penalties and interest, I went to
157:19 with penalties and interest, I went to the United States government and I
157:21 the United States government and I borrowed the money and I and I and I
157:23 borrowed the money and I and I and I sent them the check.
157:32 Four years later, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. Five years later, three days before
157:34 23. Five years later, three days before the statute of limitations ran, they
157:37 the statute of limitations ran, they charged me after coming to a negotiated
157:40 charged me after coming to a negotiated settlement with me and a plea deal. They
157:43 settlement with me and a plea deal. They blow up the plea deal because Magga went
157:46 blow up the plea deal because Magga went nuts and they decide to charge me with
157:50 nuts and they decide to charge me with seven counts of tax evasion that would
157:53 seven counts of tax evasion that would have resulted in over 35 years in prison
157:57 have resulted in over 35 years in prison for taxes that I paid with penalties and
158:00 for taxes that I paid with penalties and interest. I can't find one single case
158:03 interest. I can't find one single case as president in which someone similarly
158:06 as president in which someone similarly situated was ever charged. Roger Stone
158:08 situated was ever charged. Roger Stone didn't pay taxes for I think like eight
158:10 didn't pay taxes for I think like eight years and had secret bank accounts
158:15 years and had secret bank accounts at the same time secret foreign bank
158:18 at the same time secret foreign bank accounts I believe and I'm like I I
158:20 accounts I believe and I'm like I I don't know Roger so you know again and
158:24 don't know Roger so you know again and they came to a settlement they never the
158:26 they came to a settlement they never the the United States government never
158:28 the United States government never informed me that I was being audited
158:31 informed me that I was being audited they never audited me
158:34 they never audited me I informed them
158:37 I informed them we called them and said, "Hey, we can't
158:41 we called them and said, "Hey, we can't find the transcripts." My accountants
158:42 find the transcripts." My accountants did for 2017 and or 17 and 18. I forget
158:46 did for 2017 and or 17 and 18. I forget what the two years are. They 17 and 18
158:49 what the two years are. They 17 and 18 because I went into 19
158:52 because I went into 19 and said and they said, "Huh?" And then
158:56 and said and they said, "Huh?" And then we figured out that my accountant had
159:00 we figured out that my accountant had done the taxes and sent them to an
159:03 done the taxes and sent them to an office that was empty and then he died.
159:05 office that was empty and then he died. My accountant. So, I got a new
159:07 My accountant. So, I got a new accountant in LA when I came out of my
159:09 accountant in LA when I came out of my two years of like, you know, uh, my
159:11 two years of like, you know, uh, my crack addiction and I took care of the
159:13 crack addiction and I took care of the wreckage of the past and I took
159:15 wreckage of the past and I took responsibility for what I did. And
159:18 responsibility for what I did. And that's why they decided that they were
159:19 that's why they decided that they were not going to charge me because they
159:20 not going to charge me because they couldn't find any criminal intent in
159:22 couldn't find any criminal intent in what in what I did or any way in which I
159:24 what in what I did or any way in which I was truly trying to evade my taxes
159:27 was truly trying to evade my taxes because I came to them. But they blew up
159:29 because I came to them. But they blew up the plea deal and they not only charged
159:31 the plea deal and they not only charged me with that, but then they charged me
159:33 me with that, but then they charged me with a a um 922 G3 um uh violation
159:37 with a a um 922 G3 um uh violation that's never been used against anybody
159:39 that's never been used against anybody except me other than people that uh are
159:43 except me other than people that uh are go and purchase a gun in the commission
159:45 go and purchase a gun in the commission of a violent felony in which they also
159:48 of a violent felony in which they also find that they uh can show that they
159:50 find that they uh can show that they were addicted uh to a substance or user
159:53 were addicted uh to a substance or user of a of a schedule um one substance.
159:57 of a of a schedule um one substance. >> [ __ ] ever.
160:00 >> [ __ ] ever. How many people that do you know smoke
160:03 How many people that do you know smoke pot and own guns regularly?
160:06 pot and own guns regularly? >> A lot.
160:06 >> A lot. >> A lot. Right. They're all in violation
160:08 >> A lot. Right. They're all in violation of 922 G3. Every single one of them.
160:12 of 922 G3. Every single one of them. They charge me with three different
160:14 They charge me with three different charges under that. Again, 35 years in
160:16 charges under that. Again, 35 years in prison.
160:19 prison. Three different charges. No, I if I
160:21 Three different charges. No, I if I challenge anybody out there, find anyone
160:23 challenge anybody out there, find anyone else. And by the way, the Supreme
160:25 else. And by the way, the Supreme Court's about to overturn the um the
160:27 Court's about to overturn the um the constitutionality of uh 922G3 based on
160:30 constitutionality of uh 922G3 based on Second Amendment and Breuan and uh uh
160:33 Second Amendment and Breuan and uh uh the case Ammani. And so it's not it's
160:36 the case Ammani. And so it's not it's not going to even be a I think
160:39 not going to even be a I think constitutionally viable within the next
160:41 constitutionally viable within the next 4 months.
160:41 4 months. >> Wow.
160:42 >> Wow. >> But they took that and they charged me
160:44 >> But they took that and they charged me with it. Now, how fair do you think that
160:47 with it. Now, how fair do you think that that is when the only way that they
160:48 that is when the only way that they became informed of the fact that I
160:50 became informed of the fact that I purchased a gun is through a group
160:54 purchased a gun is through a group message from the gun shop owner, Don
160:57 message from the gun shop owner, Don Jr., and a former state police officer
161:01 Jr., and a former state police officer that heard a story about me throwing
161:04 that heard a story about me throwing away uh someone throwing away a a gun
161:06 away uh someone throwing away a a gun that I had purchased 10 days before that
161:07 that I had purchased 10 days before that I owned for 10 days in a lock box in my
161:11 I owned for 10 days in a lock box in my truck that was never loaded and never
161:13 truck that was never loaded and never fired.
161:18 5 years later. >> Wow.
161:19 >> Wow. >> Five years later.
161:22 And >> that's how that came about.
161:24 >> that's how that came about. >> Yeah.
161:25 >> Yeah. >> So, a conversation with three people.
161:27 >> So, a conversation with three people. >> Yeah. According to the um uh uh there's
161:32 >> Yeah. According to the um uh uh there's this incredible investigative reporter
161:34 this incredible investigative reporter in um that like dug up all of this
161:36 in um that like dug up all of this stuff. Yeah.
161:38 stuff. Yeah. >> Yeah.
161:40 >> Yeah. Incredible. They put it on a some
161:42 Incredible. They put it on a some right-wing blog
161:45 right-wing blog and then the US attorney came to it and
161:46 and then the US attorney came to it and you know what the US attorney did is
161:47 you know what the US attorney did is they came to the right decision uh in
161:50 they came to the right decision uh in after 3 years of that investigation
161:54 after 3 years of that investigation in which they had been investigating me
161:56 in which they had been investigating me for over 5 years and they came to first
161:59 for over 5 years and they came to first a nonprosecution agreement and then it
162:01 a nonprosecution agreement and then it was called a diversion agreement saying
162:03 was called a diversion agreement saying technically they believe that I violated
162:05 technically they believe that I violated the law so I would agree not to buy a
162:08 the law so I would agree not to buy a gun and
162:09 gun and >> they they spent three years
162:11 >> they they spent three years investigating whether you
162:14 investigating whether you did any drugs when you bought that
162:16 did any drugs when you bought that weapon.
162:16 weapon. >> They never found that I did drugs when I
162:18 >> They never found that I did drugs when I did that weapon. You know what they did?
162:20 did that weapon. You know what they did? They put me in front of a jury and they
162:22 They put me in front of a jury and they took my book
162:25 took my book and they played the audio version of my
162:27 and they played the audio version of my book in which I talk about my addiction
162:32 book in which I talk about my addiction during that period of time and they just
162:35 during that period of time and they just mash it all together. Now 922 G3 under
162:40 mash it all together. Now 922 G3 under any standard is a state of mind
162:42 any standard is a state of mind question, right? Are you addicted to are
162:45 question, right? Are you addicted to are you user of a controlled substance?
162:52 Well, I may have been an addict in the past. Am I an addicted to or a user of a
162:54 past. Am I an addicted to or a user of a controlled substance?
162:57 controlled substance? Right now, if I went to your range and
162:59 Right now, if I went to your range and fired a gun, would I be in violation of
163:02 fired a gun, would I be in violation of 922 G3?
163:03 922 G3? >> No.
163:04 >> No. >> No.
163:06 >> No. according to their standard I am and I
163:10 according to their standard I am and I will forever be. Have you had or do you
163:12 will forever be. Have you had or do you have friends that have struggled with
163:15 have friends that have struggled with alcohol or or um or illegal substances
163:19 alcohol or or um or illegal substances that have owned guns during that period
163:21 that have owned guns during that period of time?
163:28 >> Yes, I do. And do you know people personally that may have had substance
163:31 personally that may have had substance abuse problems
163:33 abuse problems that own guns at that time? And do you
163:35 that own guns at that time? And do you believe that the federal government
163:37 believe that the federal government should have the right to put them in
163:38 should have the right to put them in jail for 10 years if on a form they said
163:42 jail for 10 years if on a form they said when they bought the weapon that they
163:44 when they bought the weapon that they truly believed that they had overcome
163:46 truly believed that they had overcome their addiction? Because no addict
163:49 their addiction? Because no addict believes that they're an addict when
163:50 believes that they're an addict when they're not using.
163:56 But it didn't matter. They wanted to get me for something. So they got me for
163:58 me for something. So they got me for something. And what they did is they put
164:01 something. And what they did is they put they they embarrassed me. They spent
164:04 they they embarrassed me. They spent the entire trial
164:07 the entire trial and um uh for instance, you said that
164:10 and um uh for instance, you said that you wanted to talk about the
164:11 you wanted to talk about the relationship that I have with my
164:12 relationship that I have with my sister-in-law. Like my god, I'll tell
164:15 sister-in-law. Like my god, I'll tell you what, they put her on the stand.
164:18 you what, they put her on the stand. Talk about my addiction. It was [ __ ]
164:20 Talk about my addiction. It was [ __ ] awful. It was awful. And one of the most
164:24 awful. It was awful. And one of the most difficult things for me in my entire
164:25 difficult things for me in my entire life is how much I [ __ ] that up. I
164:29 life is how much I [ __ ] that up. I mean, two people in a state of grief,
164:32 mean, two people in a state of grief, out of their [ __ ] minds, me in
164:34 out of their [ __ ] minds, me in particular, thinking that they had found
164:35 particular, thinking that they had found the solution to um uh to the to the
164:39 the solution to um uh to the to the bleak uh you know, the positions that
164:42 bleak uh you know, the positions that they found themselves in and the brother
164:44 they found themselves in and the brother the the thing that they loved the most.
164:47 the the thing that they loved the most. And that's all I can say. And it was an
164:50 And that's all I can say. And it was an enormous mistake. And I take full
164:52 enormous mistake. And I take full responsibility for it. And I am beyond
164:55 responsibility for it. And I am beyond embarrassed what I put my family
164:56 embarrassed what I put my family through. beyond embarrassed what I put
164:58 through. beyond embarrassed what I put my family through. But in the moment, it
165:01 my family through. But in the moment, it was not some like sick whatever. It was
165:05 was not some like sick whatever. It was literally grasping for some like for
165:07 literally grasping for some like for life, for grasping for something,
165:10 life, for grasping for something, grasping for some chance at like at at
165:13 grasping for some chance at like at at at living again. But you know what? Like
165:17 at living again. But you know what? Like you judge me, not you.
165:20 you judge me, not you. Just anybody. Do you've never known
165:21 Just anybody. Do you've never known anybody to be able to to go through like
165:23 anybody to be able to to go through like a grief like that? and and and it's
165:27 a grief like that? and and and it's [ __ ] up. You do [ __ ] up things. I
165:30 [ __ ] up. You do [ __ ] up things. I certainly did. And I've been paying for
165:32 certainly did. And I've been paying for them. I've been paying for them for a
165:35 them. I've been paying for them for a long time now.
165:37 long time now. And I'm done.
165:40 And I'm done. I'm done killing myself over it.
165:43 I'm done killing myself over it. >> I think that there is a side to what
165:47 >> I think that there is a side to what happened there that nobody's heard. And
165:49 happened there that nobody's heard. And that's why I want to bring that up
165:51 that's why I want to bring that up because I think that
165:58 I think that is part of your redemption. I think people need to hear that.
166:00 I think people need to hear that. >> Yeah,
166:02 >> Yeah, maybe.
166:05 maybe. >> Maybe
166:06 >> Maybe >> because the way it's described in there
166:09 >> because the way it's described in there is definitely not the way it's described
166:11 is definitely not the way it's described in the media.
166:12 in the media. >> No. you know, and um
166:17 >> No. you know, and um you know, without injecting my opinion
166:19 you know, without injecting my opinion on anything,
166:21 on anything, I think it's going to change a lot of
166:23 I think it's going to change a lot of opinions when they hear when they hear,
166:27 opinions when they hear when they hear, you know, when they hear all of the
166:29 you know, when they hear all of the details, when they hear the story, when
166:30 details, when they hear the story, when they hear why, when they hear what you
166:32 they hear why, when they hear what you were going through, when they hear what
166:33 were going through, when they hear what she was going through, it just paints
166:36 she was going through, it just paints it's just it's just a it's a different
166:37 it's just it's just a it's a different picture than than what has been
166:41 picture than than what has been portrayed through the media. Yeah,
166:44 portrayed through the media. Yeah, you know,
166:46 you know, and I will I mean I we can talk about
166:48 and I will I mean I we can talk about it, but I will tell you this
166:51 it, but I will tell you this is that um
166:55 is that um many ways part of it's not my story to
166:57 many ways part of it's not my story to tell and the level of pain
167:00 tell and the level of pain uh that um I in uh
167:05 uh that um I in uh that that caused my family and and and
167:09 that that caused my family and and and by the way and and still does in terms
167:12 by the way and and still does in terms Um
167:13 Um is something that is really really
167:15 is something that is really really really really
167:17 really really um
167:23 it's it's tough. But I can tell you this,
167:26 this, it was not um uh
167:30 it was not um uh and I almost don't feel like I like I
167:32 and I almost don't feel like I like I owe I understand what you're saying is
167:35 owe I understand what you're saying is owe these people
167:37 owe these people that judge
167:39 that judge think that they have a judgment about
167:41 think that they have a judgment about it, an explanation in any way other than
167:43 it, an explanation in any way other than this
167:45 this is that two people desperate to find a
167:50 is that two people desperate to find a way out.
167:52 way out. and it and and clung to each other as
167:56 and it and and clung to each other as being the nearest thing to the thing
167:58 being the nearest thing to the thing that they both valued the most in the
168:00 that they both valued the most in the world and lost. And that's the answer to
168:03 world and lost. And that's the answer to that. And and and
168:13 it was an attempt to keep something alive
168:15 keep something alive that was permanently dead.
168:19 that was permanently dead. and uh
168:22 and uh and just a gigantic miscalculation about
168:24 and just a gigantic miscalculation about the way in which that would impact the
168:26 the way in which that would impact the the the ecosystem of the rest of of of
168:29 the the ecosystem of the rest of of of my family.
168:31 my family. And um
168:38 and I am uh
168:41 I am uh all I know is this is that um
168:57 it has been harder on everybody else than it has been on me.
168:59 than it has been on me. And uh
169:08 but I think that we're you know in a place it's very different now in
169:11 in a place it's very different now in which been a lot of healing
169:15 which been a lot of healing but you know
169:17 but you know uh I take full accountability for that.
169:22 uh I take full accountability for that. Is Bose's death what sent you down
169:26 Is Bose's death what sent you down the path of addiction? Hm.
169:29 the path of addiction? Hm. I think that what it did is it sent me
169:31 I think that what it did is it sent me down the path of addict that there
169:34 down the path of addict that there anything
169:36 anything I think I don't know if you your
169:37 I think I don't know if you your experience as it relates to addiction to
169:39 experience as it relates to addiction to the people in your life, your own life
169:41 the people in your life, your own life is that you don't need much of an excuse
169:43 is that you don't need much of an excuse to use um you know it could be sunny, it
169:46 to use um you know it could be sunny, it could be um raining um
169:50 could be um raining um you could be up, you could be down. Uh,
169:53 you could be up, you could be down. Uh, [gasps]
169:54 [gasps] but what Bose's death did do to me was
169:57 but what Bose's death did do to me was it sent me down a path of nealism that
170:00 it sent me down a path of nealism that I'd never experienced before in which
170:02 I'd never experienced before in which nothing mattered.
170:04 nothing mattered. And uh uh and when it all fell apart and
170:08 And uh uh and when it all fell apart and in the immediate aftermath of Bose's
170:11 in the immediate aftermath of Bose's death, there was a sense of real um
170:13 death, there was a sense of real um purpose.
170:15 purpose. But then um my marriage of 22 years um
170:20 But then um my marriage of 22 years um began to falter. And I ended up on my
170:22 began to falter. And I ended up on my own uh for the first time in my life. uh
170:26 own uh for the first time in my life. uh literally uh in terms of living alone
170:27 literally uh in terms of living alone for the first time in my life because
170:29 for the first time in my life because remember I I I left I went to college um
170:33 remember I I I left I went to college um the Jesuit volunteer corps got married
170:35 the Jesuit volunteer corps got married had a baby had two more and you know and
170:39 had a baby had two more and you know and uh and uh and I in that period of time
170:44 uh and uh and I in that period of time directly after B's death is that I
170:47 directly after B's death is that I didn't have the availability of my my
170:48 didn't have the availability of my my dad uh for the first time in my life and
170:52 dad uh for the first time in my life and that he was so like Hey, I mean grief is
170:56 that he was so like Hey, I mean grief is a is is a solitary journey in many ways
170:59 a is is a solitary journey in many ways as much as you try to cling to people. I
171:01 as much as you try to cling to people. I think one of the reasons that people uh
171:03 think one of the reasons that people uh um when they lose a a uh a child or you
171:07 um when they lose a a uh a child or you know a couple is that they uh they
171:11 know a couple is that they uh they sometimes lose each other and and for
171:13 sometimes lose each other and and for for a period of time there I felt like
171:15 for a period of time there I felt like I'd lost my dad. I felt like I'd lost
171:18 I'd lost my dad. I felt like I'd lost the entire structure of my existence.
171:20 the entire structure of my existence. And um
171:23 And um and so I'm you know and I grasped
171:26 and so I'm you know and I grasped towards one thing that was um uh and and
171:30 towards one thing that was um uh and and and not in a in a in a nefarious purious
171:34 and not in a in a in a nefarious purious purant way in any way to to someone that
171:37 purant way in any way to to someone that that was the nearest thing to what my
171:39 that was the nearest thing to what my brother was. And we and we I grasp each
171:42 brother was. And we and we I grasp each other and we and and I and and my
171:45 other and we and and I and and my addiction completely 100% [ __ ] that
171:48 addiction completely 100% [ __ ] that up. And um and uh it was awful. And um
171:56 up. And um and uh it was awful. And um so
171:58 so I do know that uh Bose's death didn't
172:02 I do know that uh Bose's death didn't make me an addict, but um
172:08 make me an addict, but um but by my own actions, by uh my um uh by
172:13 but by my own actions, by uh my um uh by the circumstances that I found myself
172:15 the circumstances that I found myself in,
172:17 in, uh by the depth to which I didn't think
172:20 uh by the depth to which I didn't think that there was a a way out, Um, it
172:24 that there was a a way out, Um, it certainly um uh was a factor in what
172:26 certainly um uh was a factor in what sent me down a a rabbit hole that I'd
172:29 sent me down a a rabbit hole that I'd never gone before, which was completely
172:31 never gone before, which was completely wanting to disappear from the face of
172:33 wanting to disappear from the face of the earth.
172:39 It was awful. You know, I think that people have this
172:40 You know, I think that people have this vision of
172:42 vision of uh you know that it's kind of funny when
172:45 uh you know that it's kind of funny when Marjorie Taylor Green like shows
172:47 Marjorie Taylor Green like shows pictures of me and you know naked and
172:50 pictures of me and you know naked and you know by the way 90% of which is like
172:53 you know by the way 90% of which is like aren't selfies people taking pictures of
172:56 aren't selfies people taking pictures of me passed out in the bathtub with a
172:57 me passed out in the bathtub with a crackpipe. you know, I I wasn't taking
172:59 crackpipe. you know, I I wasn't taking pictures of myself, you know, remotely
173:02 pictures of myself, you know, remotely while I was, you know, passed out and,
173:05 while I was, you know, passed out and, you know, um but whatever the the case
173:08 you know, um but whatever the the case may be is I don't do anything but cry
173:12 may be is I don't do anything but cry when when I think about those times. Not
173:15 when when I think about those times. Not for anybody but myself. I mean, it was
173:18 for anybody but myself. I mean, it was it was it was truly demoralizing. I
173:21 it was it was truly demoralizing. I mean, I am um uh
173:25 mean, I am um uh what people I don't think fully
173:27 what people I don't think fully comprehend about addiction, if they're
173:29 comprehend about addiction, if they're not the direct addict, that sometimes
173:31 not the direct addict, that sometimes can take you to a place in which all
173:34 can take you to a place in which all you're doing is thinking about getting
173:37 you're doing is thinking about getting high or thinking about how you're going
173:40 high or thinking about how you're going to get high, thinking about how you're
173:42 to get high, thinking about how you're going to cover up getting high, and
173:44 going to cover up getting high, and thinking about how you're going to come
173:46 thinking about how you're going to come down from getting high. And then it
173:48 down from getting high. And then it becomes just this roundthe-clock thing
173:50 becomes just this roundthe-clock thing in which it's not even about getting
173:51 in which it's not even about getting high. It's about not dying. It's
173:54 high. It's about not dying. It's literally about feel the feeling that if
173:56 literally about feel the feeling that if I don't if I don't I cannot I cannot get
173:59 I don't if I don't I cannot I cannot get up from this bed unless somebody hands
174:02 up from this bed unless somebody hands me a drink in order for my body to
174:04 me a drink in order for my body to function.
174:06 function. And um and that's the level to which I
174:11 And um and that's the level to which I um I found myself for a long period of
174:13 um I found myself for a long period of time. I mean relatively in anyone's life
174:18 time. I mean relatively in anyone's life like the fact that I didn't die I
174:20 like the fact that I didn't die I believe is a miracle.
174:23 believe is a miracle. >> How many times do you think you were
174:24 >> How many times do you think you were close to death?
174:25 close to death? >> Oh dozens.
174:28 >> Oh dozens. Dozens. Whether it was by um you know
174:31 Dozens. Whether it was by um you know like finding my places in which people
174:33 like finding my places in which people were pulling guns on me to um uh to
174:37 were pulling guns on me to um uh to putting I one time I woke up in a uh
174:41 putting I one time I woke up in a uh you know face down in a pool you know uh
174:47 you know face down in a pool you know uh and I don't even remember that but
174:49 and I don't even remember that but that's what they told me. um you know I
174:53 that's what they told me. um you know I um uh
174:56 um uh by anybody's standards was um
175:00 by anybody's standards was um um
175:06 I mean I I talk about it very descriptive
175:07 descriptive >> very descriptive in in the book and the
175:09 >> very descriptive in in the book and the reason is you know people kind of make
175:11 reason is you know people kind of make fun of me about that when I talk about
175:12 fun of me about that when I talk about like I search the carpet uh for drugs
175:16 like I search the carpet uh for drugs and the point of this story is not that
175:18 and the point of this story is not that it's some [ __ ] funny story for you to
175:20 it's some [ __ ] funny story for you to laugh about and you know Laura Ingram to
175:22 laugh about and you know Laura Ingram to go haha hi he's a crackhead and you know
175:24 go haha hi he's a crackhead and you know Donnie Jr. and you know these guys are
175:26 Donnie Jr. and you know these guys are all [ __ ] tough guys that you know
175:29 all [ __ ] tough guys that you know like you know because they go to UFC
175:30 like you know because they go to UFC fights. Um
175:34 fights. Um I tell those stories because you know
175:39 I tell those stories because you know what I think I know I'm positive that
175:43 what I think I know I'm positive that people write me and say thank you.
175:46 people write me and say thank you. Thanks for sharing that because in the
175:48 Thanks for sharing that because in the program that I come from is that the one
175:51 program that I come from is that the one things that keeps you trapped is your
175:54 things that keeps you trapped is your secrets
175:56 secrets is the things that you did in the dark
175:59 is the things that you did in the dark that nobody else knows about except the
176:02 that nobody else knows about except the people that you were in that motel room
176:04 people that you were in that motel room with like crawling around on the floor
176:07 with like crawling around on the floor for hours looking for crumbs of crack
176:09 for hours looking for crumbs of crack cocaine.
176:11 cocaine. till your hands and your fingernails get
176:13 till your hands and your fingernails get bloody.
176:22 If I can tell you that in front of everybody and write a book
176:25 in front of everybody and write a book about it and my dad's the president of
176:28 about it and my dad's the president of the United States and I came from a
176:30 the United States and I came from a place of incredible privilege, what I'm
176:32 place of incredible privilege, what I'm trying to tell you is that you have
176:34 trying to tell you is that you have nothing to be ashamed of if you've then
176:37 nothing to be ashamed of if you've then figured out how to get clean and sober.
176:40 figured out how to get clean and sober. All I have is respect for you. Doesn't
176:43 All I have is respect for you. Doesn't mean that I don't think that you should
176:44 mean that I don't think that you should be held accountable for the [ __ ] that
176:46 be held accountable for the [ __ ] that you did that was stupid while you were
176:47 you did that was stupid while you were high. But I want to tell you something
176:50 high. But I want to tell you something is that if you were me,
176:52 is that if you were me, if you were me,
176:55 if you were me, you know, calling through the cut down
176:58 you know, calling through the cut down in uh, you know, uh, at 3:00 a.m. in
177:01 in uh, you know, uh, at 3:00 a.m. in downtown LA,
177:04 downtown LA, you know, with a gun to your head,
177:13 begging somebody to sell you crack, and you made it out of that.
177:17 and you made it out of that. [ __ ] more power to you and [ __ ]
177:19 [ __ ] more power to you and [ __ ] anybody that [ __ ] would make fun of
177:21 anybody that [ __ ] would make fun of you for it that you can't talk to
177:23 you for it that you can't talk to anybody about it.
177:25 anybody about it. [ __ ] you and [ __ ] all those people
177:31 [ __ ] you and [ __ ] all those people that judge over it.
177:35 that judge over it. You can judge me
177:37 You can judge me for the decisions that I that I made and
177:40 for the decisions that I that I made and for the fuckups, but I've been paying
177:42 for the fuckups, but I've been paying the price and I take responsibility for
177:44 the price and I take responsibility for those things.
177:46 those things. And and I and I fully fully have been
177:51 And and I and I fully fully have been transparent about it for the pure
177:53 transparent about it for the pure purpose is that we are only as sick as
177:57 purpose is that we are only as sick as our secrets, man.
178:00 our secrets, man. And I know that what the gift that has
178:02 And I know that what the gift that has been given to me is that I don't have to
178:05 been given to me is that I don't have to I don't have any more secrets.
178:07 I don't have any more secrets. Not a one.
178:10 Not a one. Not a one.
178:13 Not a one. Wow.
178:24 I live the same [ __ ] way. I was not expecting to like you this much.
178:28 expecting to like you this much. [laughter]
178:29 [laughter] >> Well,
178:30 >> Well, >> uh I mean, dude, I just um
178:32 >> uh I mean, dude, I just um >> we got a lot more time. I still can [ __ ]
178:34 >> we got a lot more time. I still can [ __ ] I can [ __ ] that up. I promise.
178:35 I can [ __ ] that up. I promise. >> I mean, I can I I just I mean I'm not
178:38 >> I mean, I can I I just I mean I'm not [ __ ] around, man. I I live by that. I
178:41 [ __ ] around, man. I I live by that. I have talked about damn near everything
178:44 have talked about damn near everything publicly and I don't have any secrets
178:46 publicly and I don't have any secrets left.
178:47 left. >> Yeah.
178:47 >> Yeah. >> But I've talked about how [ __ ] up I
178:49 >> But I've talked about how [ __ ] up I was on my cocaine addiction, on my
178:51 was on my cocaine addiction, on my benzo, on my sleeping pills, on my
178:53 benzo, on my sleeping pills, on my booze, on my woman eyes, all of it. It's
178:55 booze, on my woman eyes, all of it. It's all [ __ ] out there.
178:56 all [ __ ] out there. >> Yeah.
178:56 >> Yeah. >> And you know when you what I realized
179:00 >> And you know when you what I realized is every every [ __ ] skeleton in that
179:04 is every every [ __ ] skeleton in that closet that you release out into the
179:06 closet that you release out into the world, it's like freeing part of your
179:09 world, it's like freeing part of your soul, man. Yeah,
179:11 soul, man. Yeah, >> because
179:12 >> because what do you come at me? I don't give a
179:15 what do you come at me? I don't give a [ __ ] It's all out there.
179:17 [ __ ] It's all out there. >> Yeah.
179:17 >> Yeah. >> I got nothing left to lose, buddy.
179:19 >> I got nothing left to lose, buddy. >> And by the way, it doesn't mean that
179:21 >> And by the way, it doesn't mean that you're [ __ ] proud of it.
179:23 you're [ __ ] proud of it. >> Yeah.
179:23 >> Yeah. >> What it means is is that you're free of
179:25 >> What it means is is that you're free of it.
179:26 it. >> You're free of it. And it also sets an
179:28 >> You're free of it. And it also sets an example for others to follow. And just
179:31 example for others to follow. And just like you said, just like you just said,
179:33 like you said, just like you just said, you know,
179:35 you know, coming from where you've come from with
179:37 coming from where you've come from with with with with your dad being the
179:39 with with with your dad being the president of the United States, I mean,
179:40 president of the United States, I mean, there that is a that is a tremendous
179:42 there that is a that is a tremendous amount of shame because of the
179:44 amount of shame because of the expectations that have been put on you
179:46 expectations that have been put on you by society because of the because of the
179:51 by society because of the because of the the the the position that your family
179:53 the the the position that your family members are in.
179:54 members are in. >> Yeah.
180:00 And so to come out and to have the courage to say, "Yeah, I [ __ ] this up.
180:02 courage to say, "Yeah, I [ __ ] this up. This is what happened. This is the
180:03 This is what happened. This is the description. This is how I saw it and
180:05 description. This is how I saw it and this is how I lived." And to be that
180:08 this is how I lived." And to be that open about it. I mean, that
180:11 open about it. I mean, that I know how much courage that is.
180:13 I know how much courage that is. Actually, maybe I don't because I don't
180:16 Actually, maybe I don't because I don't have any family members in that type of
180:19 have any family members in that type of a position. But I mean, but I'm in an
180:21 a position. But I mean, but I'm in an influential position and to to to come
180:24 influential position and to to to come clean on all of those things. And I
180:26 clean on all of those things. And I mean, [ __ ] just the other day I had to
180:28 mean, [ __ ] just the other day I had to deal with something where I [ __ ]
180:29 deal with something where I [ __ ] something up and I talk [ __ ] about
180:31 something up and I talk [ __ ] about somebody that I a group of people that I
180:33 somebody that I a group of people that I shouldn't have. I had to come clean. I
180:35 shouldn't have. I had to come clean. I did it. Also did the same damn thing to
180:37 did it. Also did the same damn thing to Camala Harris who I couldn't [ __ ]
180:38 Camala Harris who I couldn't [ __ ] stand and I did a public apology.
180:40 stand and I did a public apology. Anyways,
180:42 Anyways, addictions and and all of that all of
180:45 addictions and and all of that all of that all of that stuff and how bad it
180:47 that all of that stuff and how bad it gets and
180:48 gets and >> yeah,
180:48 >> yeah, >> scrging around for drugs and going to
180:50 >> scrging around for drugs and going to get more and the thrill of finding it
180:52 get more and the thrill of finding it and all. I mean, I I could [ __ ] get I
180:54 and all. I mean, I I could [ __ ] get I could I could go for days about that
180:58 could I could go for days about that stuff. But, um, and maybe we will,
181:01 stuff. But, um, and maybe we will, >> but I do want to commend you, you know,
181:03 >> but I do want to commend you, you know, for coming clean and and and being that
181:06 for coming clean and and and being that open about it because most people will
181:07 open about it because most people will never see that kind of courage.
181:10 never see that kind of courage. I really appreciate that, man. And I
181:12 I really appreciate that, man. And I really mean it. It uh
181:15 really mean it. It uh I know that you surprised by that, but
181:17 I know that you surprised by that, but coming from me, that means a lot. Thank
181:19 coming from me, that means a lot. Thank you. You're welcome.
181:20 you. You're welcome. >> Yeah. Let's take a break.
181:21 >> Yeah. Let's take a break. >> Yeah, man.
181:27 My days don't slow down. Between work, the gym, and time with the kids, I need
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183:51 >> All right, Hunter, we're back from the break.
183:52 break. >> Yeah.
183:53 >> Yeah. >> Getting ready to uh dive into the life
183:56 >> Getting ready to uh dive into the life of a crack addict.
183:57 of a crack addict. >> Absolutely. Mine was Coke.
183:59 >> Absolutely. Mine was Coke. >> Yeah.
184:00 >> Yeah. >> But I'll dive in there with you.
184:01 >> But I'll dive in there with you. >> And um
184:02 >> And um >> same thing, just a little bit different.
184:04 >> same thing, just a little bit different. >> Yeah. [laughter]
184:05 >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Well, you started with Coke, right?
184:08 >> Well, you started with Coke, right? >> Uh yeah, I mean, basically, but the um
184:11 >> Uh yeah, I mean, basically, but the um when I really uh I went uh
184:16 when I really uh I went uh I went straight to to crack when I like
184:20 I went straight to to crack when I like decided that I was gonna
184:23 decided that I was gonna drop off the face of the earth.
184:24 drop off the face of the earth. >> Go full time.
184:25 >> Go full time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Did you do did you I'm just
184:28 >> Yeah. Yeah. Did you do did you I'm just curious. Did you partake in any drug use
184:31 curious. Did you partake in any drug use as a child?
184:32 as a child? >> Uh yeah. I I you know I tried everything
184:36 >> Uh yeah. I I you know I tried everything but I had I didn't Nothing stuck nothing
184:39 but I had I didn't Nothing stuck nothing stuck like alcohol.
184:40 stuck like alcohol. >> Nothing.
184:41 >> Nothing. >> Yeah. I mean I had tried coke. I you
184:46 >> Yeah. I mean I had tried coke. I you know I you know the one drug that I'm
184:49 know I you know the one drug that I'm 100% certain that I'm incapable of
184:53 100% certain that I'm incapable of handling?
184:54 handling? >> Which one?
184:54 >> Which one? >> Pot. really
184:57 >> Pot. really [laughter] just serious. I mean in like
185:00 [laughter] just serious. I mean in like a great like a like a great addict is
185:03 a great like a like a great addict is like I am absolutely certain of it
185:06 like I am absolutely certain of it because after 400 failed attempts
185:09 because after 400 failed attempts being [laughter]
185:11 being [laughter] curled in a ball like you know hugging
185:14 curled in a ball like you know hugging my um you know on a on the tile floor in
185:16 my um you know on a on the tile floor in a bathroom I it literally makes it it is
185:19 a bathroom I it literally makes it it is the it's one of the only drugs I clearly
185:21 the it's one of the only drugs I clearly cannot in any way metabolize without it
185:23 cannot in any way metabolize without it literally turning me into a a complete
185:26 literally turning me into a a complete and utter incompetent.
185:30 and utter incompetent. I just turn into a total fat ass on
185:32 I just turn into a total fat ass on that.
185:32 that. >> Can't stop [ __ ] eating.
185:34 >> Can't stop [ __ ] eating. >> I I mean, I literally become so
185:37 >> I I mean, I literally become so anxietyridden. It's really
185:38 anxietyridden. It's really >> Well, that happens, too. My friend Eddie
185:41 >> Well, that happens, too. My friend Eddie Gallagher posted a diagram of a joint
185:43 Gallagher posted a diagram of a joint once and it was basically like, you
185:46 once and it was basically like, you know, the first little bit is it's all
185:49 know, the first little bit is it's all good. The next little bit maybe a little
185:51 good. The next little bit maybe a little bit of paranoia. The next little bit, oh
185:54 bit of paranoia. The next little bit, oh [ __ ] the cop. And then the last little
185:56 [ __ ] the cop. And then the last little bit is like the CIA's [ __ ] coming to
185:58 bit is like the CIA's [ __ ] coming to get me. [laughter]
186:00 get me. [laughter] I was like, damn, dude. That's like
186:02 I was like, damn, dude. That's like right on the money.
186:03 right on the money. >> But, you know, I don't I don't want to
186:05 >> But, you know, I don't I don't want to make like a joke out of the whole
186:07 make like a joke out of the whole situation, but you know, I but sometimes
186:10 situation, but you know, I but sometimes you kind of have to. That's just how you
186:12 you kind of have to. That's just how you get through it. And um at least for me,
186:14 get through it. And um at least for me, I've got a really dark [ __ ] dark
186:16 I've got a really dark [ __ ] dark sense of humor. But you know, with with
186:19 sense of humor. But you know, with with with with my addiction, I I
186:23 with with my addiction, I I I mean, I was I was a boozer since high
186:26 I mean, I was I was a boozer since high school, but I didn't do any hard drugs
186:29 school, but I didn't do any hard drugs until my 30s.
186:31 until my 30s. >> Yeah. I mean, I I had tried it. there
186:35 >> Yeah. I mean, I I had tried it. there there was no real um you know prevalent
186:38 there was no real um you know prevalent availability and you know I I played
186:40 availability and you know I I played sports and so and you know football
186:42 sports and so and you know football season you you know we tried not to even
186:44 season you you know we tried not to even drink and you know and high school and
186:48 drink and you know and high school and um and I uh but I tried uh cocaine when
186:52 um and I uh but I tried uh cocaine when I was in high school and then not
186:56 I was in high school and then not throughout college
186:58 throughout college uh I dabbled uh maybe and um
187:03 uh I dabbled uh maybe and um but It it it wasn't really around. It
187:06 but It it it wasn't really around. It was almost the my problem was alcohol.
187:08 was almost the my problem was alcohol. Um
187:10 Um and um
187:12 and um and it remained alcohol until I walked
187:15 and it remained alcohol until I walked into that park which I described in in
187:16 into that park which I described in in the book is you know I left a um I was
187:20 the book is you know I left a um I was in a an outpatient program which I was
187:23 in a an outpatient program which I was committed to and I had relapsed and um
187:27 committed to and I had relapsed and um and I was in the middle of a divorce and
187:30 and I was in the middle of a divorce and uh and separated
187:33 uh and separated and I had spent
187:36 and I had spent uh I'd done everything to try to get
187:38 uh I'd done everything to try to get back. And I'd gone to um
187:42 back. And I'd gone to um uh like 45 days of a impatient program
187:47 uh like 45 days of a impatient program and then I did uh about 3 months of a
187:51 and then I did uh about 3 months of a sober coach in which I blew into a a um
187:56 sober coach in which I blew into a a um >> breathalyzer that took your picture
187:58 >> breathalyzer that took your picture whenever the sober coach would call
188:01 whenever the sober coach would call >> um with the commitment
188:03 >> um with the commitment uh with u that if I failed it that I
188:07 uh with u that if I failed it that I would go back into uh into treatment and
188:12 would go back into uh into treatment and um and I did that and then that wasn't
188:14 um and I did that and then that wasn't good enough for um under for whatever
188:17 good enough for um under for whatever reason. Um, and so then I committed to
188:19 reason. Um, and so then I committed to doing an outpatient program which was uh
188:22 doing an outpatient program which was uh 5 days a week and um you know uh about 5
188:26 5 days a week and um you know uh about 5 hours a day from like 8 to 2 and um
188:32 hours a day from like 8 to 2 and um and I and I relapsed and um
188:37 and I and I relapsed and um and I told them that I relapsed and they
188:40 and I told them that I relapsed and they wanted me to take a um uh uh they they
188:44 wanted me to take a um uh uh they they wanted me to to pee in a cup. Um, and I
188:48 wanted me to to pee in a cup. Um, and I said, "Look, I relapsed. I used cocaine
188:51 said, "Look, I relapsed. I used cocaine and but I I drank primarily and I used
188:54 and but I I drank primarily and I used cocaine, but that's what I did. I'm
188:55 cocaine, but that's what I did. I'm telling you
188:57 telling you the I didn't want it as any part of a
188:59 the I didn't want it as any part of a record in which people don't fully
189:02 record in which people don't fully understand is the kind of the uh
189:07 understand is the kind of the uh it's the the conundrum that some addicts
189:10 it's the the conundrum that some addicts find themselves in in in treatment
189:12 find themselves in in in treatment facilities that are also facing like
189:14 facilities that are also facing like legal issues or divorces or things like
189:16 legal issues or divorces or things like that is that it's not protected by
189:18 that is that it's not protected by HIPPA. So you can go into a rehab and be
189:22 HIPPA. So you can go into a rehab and be in the middle of a divorce and have all
189:24 in the middle of a divorce and have all of that of those records dodge. They can
189:27 of that of those records dodge. They can be subpoenaed or if you're in a civil I
189:29 be subpoenaed or if you're in a civil I mean like so many which is a a real
189:32 mean like so many which is a a real um uh I think oversight on the part of
189:36 um uh I think oversight on the part of people as it relates to privacy and
189:38 people as it relates to privacy and getting people to be as honest as
189:40 getting people to be as honest as possible. And so I was like look I'm
189:42 possible. And so I was like look I'm telling you I relapsed. I mean, what's
189:45 telling you I relapsed. I mean, what's the difference if you have a They said,
189:47 the difference if you have a They said, "Well, you can't come back
189:50 "Well, you can't come back if you don't take the test." And I said,
189:52 if you don't take the test." And I said, "But I'm admitting to you what I did."
189:55 "But I'm admitting to you what I did." And um they said, "No, it's just our
189:58 And um they said, "No, it's just our policy. Unless you unless you submit to
190:00 policy. Unless you unless you submit to the test, you can't come back."
190:04 the test, you can't come back." So, I walked out and um and it was in
190:08 So, I walked out and um and it was in downtown DC. Uh, and I went over to a
190:11 downtown DC. Uh, and I went over to a park, Lincoln Park, and um, you know,
190:15 park, Lincoln Park, and um, you know, not far from the White House. Uh, my dad
190:18 not far from the White House. Uh, my dad at this point was not in office or
190:19 at this point was not in office or anything, but uh, it was between the
190:22 anything, but uh, it was between the apartment that I was running and Shaw
190:25 apartment that I was running and Shaw and uh, and um, and I saw somebody in
190:29 and uh, and um, and I saw somebody in the park that I recognized from
190:31 the park that I recognized from literally years and years ago, but she
190:32 literally years and years ago, but she was kind of a famous person. Her name
190:34 was kind of a famous person. Her name was Bicycles. Everybody called her
190:36 was Bicycles. Everybody called her Bicycles.
190:38 Bicycles. And um and I said to her, "Can you give
190:40 And um and I said to her, "Can you give me crack?" And she did, you know, and uh
190:46 me crack?" And she did, you know, and uh when I say she she she was a a kind of a
190:49 when I say she she she was a a kind of a very well-known like um uh
190:53 very well-known like um uh uh homeless semihomeless kind of um
190:58 uh homeless semihomeless kind of um u drug user and that that like bicycled
191:02 u drug user and that that like bicycled up and down
191:03 up and down >> like a character almost.
191:04 >> like a character almost. >> Yeah, she total character. Everybody
191:05 >> Yeah, she total character. Everybody knew her. And um not everybody didn't
191:07 knew her. And um not everybody didn't know her. I knew her knew of her.
191:12 know her. I knew her knew of her. And um you know, five months later, she
191:15 And um you know, five months later, she was you know uh the keys to my apartment
191:18 was you know uh the keys to my apartment and
191:19 and and uh we'd become uh using buddies for
191:25 and uh we'd become uh using buddies for a extended period of time. And um
191:29 a extended period of time. And um uh and it it's a you know uh
191:34 uh and it it's a you know uh it's it's everything that they say that
191:38 it's it's everything that they say that it is. Um and
191:40 it is. Um and nobody fully um um
191:44 nobody fully um um I think
191:46 I think captures the the power of crack cocaine.
191:51 captures the the power of crack cocaine. Nor explains it correctly. It's all so
191:54 Nor explains it correctly. It's all so wrapped up in in a lot of um prejudice
191:58 wrapped up in in a lot of um prejudice and um and bias based upon kind of the
192:02 and um and bias based upon kind of the racial profile that people that you know
192:05 racial profile that people that you know crack addicts and you know at least if
192:07 crack addicts and you know at least if you're from my generation in '90s in
192:10 you're from my generation in '90s in which
192:11 which >> if you know it was introduced to the
192:13 >> if you know it was introduced to the streets and just tore communities apart
192:16 streets and just tore communities apart and the thing that truly tore
192:18 and the thing that truly tore communities apart was not necessarily
192:19 communities apart was not necessarily the addiction, it was the response to it
192:21 the addiction, it was the response to it and um and So anyway, long story short
192:24 and um and So anyway, long story short is that's,
192:26 is that's, you know, I I I actively sought out the
192:29 you know, I I I actively sought out the thing that I thought was the most
192:31 thing that I thought was the most destructive thing that I could do to
192:32 destructive thing that I could do to myself at that moment in time beyond
192:34 myself at that moment in time beyond physically harming myself.
192:36 physically harming myself. >> What
192:38 >> What What was it that
192:41 What was it that What was it that took you to rehab? What
192:43 What was it that took you to rehab? What was it that made you want to get better?
192:45 was it that made you want to get better? Like what was the realization
192:48 Like what was the realization >> finally in the at the at the end? I mean
192:52 >> finally in the at the at the end? I mean that was the that was in 200 u I think
192:56 that was the that was in 200 u I think what I get my years a little bit mixed
192:57 what I get my years a little bit mixed up but that was two like that was a year
192:59 up but that was two like that was a year after B's death 2016 where I basically
193:02 after B's death 2016 where I basically stayed sober and and attempted to stay
193:05 stayed sober and and attempted to stay sober for that year year period in which
193:08 sober for that year year period in which I was under the care of somebody a
193:10 I was under the care of somebody a professional and the thing that wanted
193:12 professional and the thing that wanted me to to stay sober and clean is my
193:15 me to to stay sober and clean is my family is that you know I have I my um
193:19 family is that you know I have I my um uh
193:21 uh Uh my three oldest daughters are the my
193:23 Uh my three oldest daughters are the my uh are
193:25 uh are like they were my whole world and um and
193:31 like they were my whole world and um and and they and I was an enormous you know
193:34 and they and I was an enormous you know I was like a constant presence in in her
193:36 I was like a constant presence in in her life because for the vast majority of it
193:38 life because for the vast majority of it I was clean and sober and and I uh was
193:43 I was clean and sober and and I uh was and I and I was not uh a user or a
193:46 and I and I was not uh a user or a drinker in that I would ever kind of do
193:48 drinker in that I would ever kind of do it around them. I don't think that there
193:50 it around them. I don't think that there are more than maybe a handful of times
193:53 are more than maybe a handful of times and I I can't speak for them. All I can
193:56 and I I can't speak for them. All I can say is this is that I was a very present
193:59 say is this is that I was a very present parent. Um
194:02 parent. Um and then all of a sudden I was gone.
194:05 and then all of a sudden I was gone. All of a sudden I was uh uh completely
194:10 All of a sudden I was uh uh completely unavailable. And I don't think there's
194:12 unavailable. And I don't think there's anything more uh traumatic that you can
194:16 anything more uh traumatic that you can do than that. and um and so uh to to be
194:22 do than that. and um and so uh to to be there and then not be there.
194:24 there and then not be there. >> Have you been able to redeem yourself to
194:26 >> Have you been able to redeem yourself to your for
194:27 your for >> Oh, yeah.
194:28 >> Oh, yeah. >> to your daughters for that.
194:29 >> to your daughters for that. >> Well, I I I I'm not I can't be the judge
194:31 >> Well, I I I I'm not I can't be the judge of whether I've redeemed myself, but all
194:33 of whether I've redeemed myself, but all I know is that we have a very very very
194:35 I know is that we have a very very very close relationship. Um and um but there
194:40 close relationship. Um and um but there that and again it's literally the I
194:42 that and again it's literally the I think the worst thing that I could
194:43 think the worst thing that I could possibly do is speak for anybody else
194:45 possibly do is speak for anybody else that has uh suffered because of somebody
194:48 that has uh suffered because of somebody else's addiction. That's one of the
194:50 else's addiction. That's one of the things that I'm 100% certain is uh is I
194:54 things that I'm 100% certain is uh is I never want to do. But all I can say is
194:57 never want to do. But all I can say is that
194:59 that um you know it is a uh it is a constant
195:03 um you know it is a uh it is a constant work in progress because of the fact
195:06 work in progress because of the fact that um I'm bound [clears throat] and
195:08 that um I'm bound [clears throat] and determined
195:10 determined to at least um uh
195:13 to at least um uh make up for any of that of of all of
195:16 make up for any of that of of all of that lost time that neglect because I
195:20 that lost time that neglect because I [clears throat] don't um uh
195:23 [clears throat] don't um uh and I and I don't Um,
195:32 I know this. I know my daughters love me deeply
195:34 deeply and have been there for me and are
195:38 and have been there for me and are beyond Melissa.
195:40 beyond Melissa. Um,
195:41 Um, the singular
195:44 the singular uh uh thing that made me think that
195:49 uh uh thing that made me think that there was something worth living for.
195:57 and um but you know
196:00 but you know caused a lot of pain
196:02 caused a lot of pain you know.
196:03 you know. >> Who do you think you hurt the most?
196:05 >> Who do you think you hurt the most? >> Beyond myself.
196:17 definitely um my daughters.
196:20 my daughters. Yeah.
196:22 Yeah. And uh and again the reason being is
196:24 And uh and again the reason being is that they were older but um
196:29 that they were older but um they had just lost
196:32 they had just lost um their uncle Bo
196:36 um their uncle Bo to them
196:38 to them um was everything. Um
196:43 um was everything. Um and uh I mean he was he was as present
196:47 and uh I mean he was he was as present in their lives as he was in mine. And
196:49 in their lives as he was in mine. And you know, my brother was not perfect,
196:51 you know, my brother was not perfect, but he was about as close to perfect as
196:52 but he was about as close to perfect as he can be as a human being. And I really
196:55 he can be as a human being. And I really mean that.
196:57 mean that. And I and I challenge anybody that knew
196:59 And I and I challenge anybody that knew my brother that that didn't feel the
197:02 my brother that that didn't feel the same way almost universally. And I know
197:04 same way almost universally. And I know that people talk about people in death
197:05 that people talk about people in death as if they are um something more than
197:09 as if they are um something more than they were. But um in my brother's case,
197:11 they were. But um in my brother's case, I couldn't say enough things that could
197:13 I couldn't say enough things that could fully describe what an extraordinary
197:15 fully describe what an extraordinary human being he was. And when I graduated
197:18 human being he was. And when I graduated from law school, my brother moved in
197:21 from law school, my brother moved in with me and my wife and my two daughters
197:24 with me and my wife and my two daughters and he took the third floor of the house
197:27 and he took the third floor of the house that we renovated um this old farmhouse
197:30 that we renovated um this old farmhouse and um and he just was never present in
197:34 and um and he just was never present in in their lives also. So the one thing
197:38 in their lives also. So the one thing that was probably the most um un not
197:42 that was probably the most um un not intentionally cruel but the uh u cruel
197:46 intentionally cruel but the uh u cruel is that they lost an uncle Bo and then
197:49 is that they lost an uncle Bo and then they lost me at the same time.
197:53 they lost me at the same time. >> Yeah. And I became so wrapped up and
197:57 >> Yeah. And I became so wrapped up and selfish in my own grief.
197:59 selfish in my own grief. And um and uh I don't think that there
198:05 And um and uh I don't think that there uh is is it that um there's anything
198:08 uh is is it that um there's anything that I ever can do to make up for that.
198:12 that I ever can do to make up for that. Um and those are some of the things.
198:14 Um and those are some of the things. Now, do I believe that they've forgiven
198:16 Now, do I believe that they've forgiven me for that? Absolutely. I mean, I I
198:18 me for that? Absolutely. I mean, I I they I know they adore me and I I really
198:21 they I know they adore me and I I really mean that and I I know that. But but
198:24 mean that and I I know that. But but it's not up for me to be able to
198:25 it's not up for me to be able to determine whether I've ever made up for
198:27 determine whether I've ever made up for what I um that that that level that deep
198:31 what I um that that that level that deep deep level of hurt that children more
198:33 deep level of hurt that children more than anybody ends up experiencing for a
198:36 than anybody ends up experiencing for a parent that um that has suffered from
198:39 parent that um that has suffered from addiction.
198:41 addiction. >> Do you think they're going to watch
198:42 >> Do you think they're going to watch this?
198:43 this? >> Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah.
198:46 >> Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah. >> What would you say to them right now?
198:49 >> What would you say to them right now? Oh, everything I've already said to
198:50 Oh, everything I've already said to their face is to them personally. I
198:53 their face is to them personally. I mean, I I I call my I call them almost
198:55 mean, I I I call my I call them almost every day. Finan have been in a little
198:57 every day. Finan have been in a little bit of a fight about that. But
198:59 bit of a fight about that. But [laughter] yeah, but um is that they are
199:04 [laughter] yeah, but um is that they are each in uh in their own way
199:06 each in uh in their own way [clears throat] extraordinary
199:08 [clears throat] extraordinary people that I am
199:10 people that I am uh immeasurably proud of. and they have
199:14 uh immeasurably proud of. and they have uh um they have been a a greater source
199:19 uh um they have been a a greater source of strength to me than they will ever
199:22 of strength to me than they will ever fully appreciate.
199:28 >> Yeah. I bet they'll love to hear that. >> Yeah. I I tell them all the time and
199:30 >> Yeah. I I tell them all the time and then they, you know, and maybe they call
199:32 then they, you know, and maybe they call me back, maybe they don't. [laughter]
199:38 And then I get my dad calls me. He goes, "Have you talked to Maisy? You talked to
199:40 "Have you talked to Maisy? You talked to Maisy?" I'm like, "Jesus Christ, Dad."
199:42 Maisy?" I'm like, "Jesus Christ, Dad." Yeah, I tried I tried her. Well, I
199:44 Yeah, I tried I tried her. Well, I called her. I got her I got her on the
199:45 called her. I got her I got her on the phone. The only thing that makes me mad
199:47 phone. The only thing that makes me mad about my dad is she's an even better
199:48 about my dad is she's an even better grandfather than he is a even a parent.
199:52 grandfather than he is a even a parent. But yeah, they're they're they're
199:54 But yeah, they're they're they're extraordinary women. And you know, one
199:58 extraordinary women. And you know, one of the things about you know, the
200:03 of the things about you know, the like all of this is um
200:08 like all of this is um you know, I sometimes get down and be
200:10 you know, I sometimes get down and be like, "What the [ __ ] these people are
200:12 like, "What the [ __ ] these people are awful and they're ruining my life and
200:14 awful and they're ruining my life and they're doing this and you know and and
200:19 they're doing this and you know and and um then I'd think
200:22 um then I'd think like
200:24 like this isn't hard on me, it's them.
200:29 this isn't hard on me, it's them. How hard is it on them? How hard is it
200:32 How hard is it on them? How hard is it for
200:34 for them to walk in to work as grown women
200:38 them to walk in to work as grown women and um uh working in New York City in an
200:42 and um uh working in New York City in an office building and everybody know who
200:45 office building and everybody know who you are and your dad's on the um you
200:49 you are and your dad's on the um you know for no apparent reason other than
200:51 know for no apparent reason other than just to shame me on the front cover of
200:54 just to shame me on the front cover of the New York Post with a crackpipe
200:56 the New York Post with a crackpipe dangling out with shirtless with a woman
200:58 dangling out with shirtless with a woman standing behind him and then again the
201:00 standing behind him and then again the next day and then again the next day and
201:03 next day and then again the next day and then again the next day. And um and so I
201:09 then again the next day. And um and so I always always uh at least when I when I
201:13 always always uh at least when I when I start to feel um sorry for myself be
201:18 start to feel um sorry for myself be like [ __ ] like god damn how lucky am I?
201:28 How lucky am I that they still pick up the phone?
201:35 Never stop loving me. I don't deserve that. Nobody deserves
201:38 I don't deserve that. Nobody deserves that. But I have it. And um
201:55 It's a good boy to love. Yeah, [sighs]
201:56 Yeah, [sighs] it's a um
202:04 but god, you know, I still [ __ ] up. I still don't do it the right way. I still
202:06 still don't do it the right way. I still let people down. I mean, the only thing
202:09 let people down. I mean, the only thing that's different now in in my life is
202:12 that's different now in in my life is that I truly don't start from a position
202:15 that I truly don't start from a position of what's in it for me first in terms of
202:18 of what's in it for me first in terms of what can I get to alleviate this pain.
202:21 what can I get to alleviate this pain. like I like
202:23 like I like um
202:25 um uh I at least know that it uh that the
202:31 uh I at least know that it uh that the uh
202:37 uh that I'm not ashamed of the mistakes that I make today. Do you know what I is
202:39 that I make today. Do you know what I is because I'm I um or I am I'm certain uh
202:45 because I'm I um or I am I'm certain uh that I'm uh trying to to be the best
202:49 that I'm uh trying to to be the best person I can be and I'm doing my best at
202:51 person I can be and I'm doing my best at it. Do you know what I mean? like I'm
202:52 it. Do you know what I mean? like I'm trying every day and I know that I'm
202:54 trying every day and I know that I'm failing but it's not you know I'm I'm at
202:58 failing but it's not you know I'm I'm at the same time I'm comfortable with who I
203:00 the same time I'm comfortable with who I am and I don't think I think a lot of my
203:03 am and I don't think I think a lot of my life
203:05 life although I wouldn't admit it is I felt
203:09 although I wouldn't admit it is I felt lesser than
203:11 lesser than um for whatever reason I don't know what
203:14 um for whatever reason I don't know what what you know what I mean like I I just
203:16 what you know what I mean like I I just like you know uh
203:21 like you know uh uh
203:22 uh >> lesser than who?
203:24 >> lesser than who? >> Anybody didn't matter felt alone in a
203:26 >> Anybody didn't matter felt alone in a crowd, you know. Um
203:30 crowd, you know. Um I felt like I I uh like for instance
203:33 I felt like I I uh like for instance like with art like I I wanted to be an
203:36 like with art like I I wanted to be an artist, you know. No, I ended up going
203:39 artist, you know. No, I ended up going to Y law school and and you know, having
203:42 to Y law school and and you know, having a pretty successful career and doing the
203:44 a pretty successful career and doing the things that that I did, but you know,
203:46 things that that I did, but you know, like I just never, you know, like I felt
203:48 like I just never, you know, like I felt like I'm not good enough,
203:50 like I'm not good enough, you know, I I don't want to show people,
203:53 you know, I I don't want to show people, you know, you know, my stupid, you know,
203:57 you know, you know, my stupid, you know, uh, you know, I mean, I don't know
204:01 uh, you know, I mean, I don't know whether it was my poetry or my paintings
204:04 whether it was my poetry or my paintings or my, you know, but that's the person
204:05 or my, you know, but that's the person that I wanted to be and I didn't have
204:07 that I wanted to be and I didn't have the courage when I was that age to do
204:09 the courage when I was that age to do it. And I had to be completely, utterly
204:11 it. And I had to be completely, utterly broken, humiliated, and dehumanized in
204:15 broken, humiliated, and dehumanized in order for me to say to myself, "Fuck
204:17 order for me to say to myself, "Fuck everybody else. Just be the who the [ __ ]
204:20 everybody else. Just be the who the [ __ ] you are." You know? I mean, everybody
204:22 you are." You know? I mean, everybody tells me to stop using the [ __ ] f
204:24 tells me to stop using the [ __ ] f word so much, but [ __ ] you. [laughter]
204:26 word so much, but [ __ ] you. [laughter] You know what I mean?
204:27 You know what I mean? >> I get told time, too.
204:29 >> I get told time, too. >> You know, it's like I I don't know. like
204:32 >> You know, it's like I I don't know. like I don't have to I don't have to um
204:38 I don't have to I don't have to um I don't have to be anything except
204:40 I don't have to be anything except exactly who I am.
204:43 exactly who I am. And I don't owe you any explanation, but
204:47 And I don't owe you any explanation, but I owe myself
204:50 I owe myself to be radically honest with when I [ __ ]
204:52 to be radically honest with when I [ __ ] up and what is my responsibility
204:57 up and what is my responsibility and when I should say sorry to somebody.
204:59 and when I should say sorry to somebody. But the one thing I know about anybody
205:01 But the one thing I know about anybody that's ever come into um you know into
205:04 that's ever come into um you know into recovery decided that they got to stop
205:06 recovery decided that they got to stop using or they got to stop drinking. And
205:08 using or they got to stop drinking. And you know a lot of people can drink and
205:10 you know a lot of people can drink and use responsibly.
205:12 use responsibly. But anybody that I know that decided not
205:14 But anybody that I know that decided not to, they didn't come in on a [ __ ]
205:15 to, they didn't come in on a [ __ ] winning streak, man. They didn't decide
205:18 winning streak, man. They didn't decide to stop drinking because, you know,
205:19 to stop drinking because, you know, things were so good.
205:22 things were so good. But when they put that down
205:25 But when they put that down and
205:27 and what are they going to what are they
205:28 what are they going to what are they going to you know what fills that hole?
205:31 going to you know what fills that hole? And for so long in my recovery I didn't
205:34 And for so long in my recovery I didn't h I didn't have anything to fill that
205:35 h I didn't have anything to fill that hole because I wasn't I I didn't feel
205:38 hole because I wasn't I I didn't feel whole. I didn't feel like I was being
205:41 whole. I didn't feel like I was being honest with myself no matter who I
205:43 honest with myself no matter who I wanted to be or you know anything.
205:47 wanted to be or you know anything. >> What got you there? the complete and
205:50 >> What got you there? the complete and utter uh you know destruction of my ego
205:55 utter uh you know destruction of my ego >> psychedelics. No, I think that the um I
205:58 >> psychedelics. No, I think that the um I think that everything was a little bit
205:59 think that everything was a little bit of a step towards that, but ultimately
206:02 of a step towards that, but ultimately at the end of the day, the gift that was
206:04 at the end of the day, the gift that was given to me was given to me by the most
206:06 given to me was given to me by the most horrendous people in the world is the
206:09 horrendous people in the world is the people that, you know, stole my digital
206:12 people that, you know, stole my digital images and put them in the New York Post
206:14 images and put them in the New York Post and Miranda Divine used me to, you know,
206:17 and Miranda Divine used me to, you know, to cash her checks and and, you know,
206:20 to cash her checks and and, you know, and the Daily Mail, you know, I mean,
206:22 and the Daily Mail, you know, I mean, like all of that, the worst humili
206:25 like all of that, the worst humili ation. I think that in in a in a modern
206:27 ation. I think that in in a in a modern digital [clears throat] age
206:28 digital [clears throat] age >> that's what you mean by destruction of
206:30 >> that's what you mean by destruction of the ego.
206:31 the ego. >> Yes. Completely. Because you have to
206:33 >> Yes. Completely. Because you have to decide is that you
206:36 decide is that you and if it isn't then who are you?
206:41 and if it isn't then who are you? Then who the [ __ ] are you? And you
206:43 Then who the [ __ ] are you? And you realize is that I I used to that I in
206:48 realize is that I I used to that I in the past would think
206:52 the past would think I think that that a lot of addicts do
206:54 I think that that a lot of addicts do this like I watch you, okay? And I and I
206:58 this like I watch you, okay? And I and I would and I would um and I would put you
207:02 would and I would um and I would put you on uh this pedestal, okay? somebody that
207:06 on uh this pedestal, okay? somebody that I respected, somebody that served,
207:08 I respected, somebody that served, somebody that put themselves physically
207:10 somebody that put themselves physically in harm's way on behalf of other people,
207:13 in harm's way on behalf of other people, um, somebody who had the discipline and
207:15 um, somebody who had the discipline and the courage to do the things that you
207:18 the courage to do the things that you did. And so that's your your outward
207:21 did. And so that's your your outward persona. And I would and I would compare
207:24 persona. And I would and I would compare myself to you
207:26 myself to you and I would think I'm never going to
207:28 and I would think I'm never going to live up to that.
207:30 live up to that. and um and and then something in your
207:34 and um and and then something in your life happens like
207:38 life happens like they completely dehumanize you through,
207:42 they completely dehumanize you through, you know, I mean, by the way, imagine if
207:44 you know, I mean, by the way, imagine if I was a woman. Imagine if I was Ivanka
207:47 I was a woman. Imagine if I was Ivanka Trump. And I know that sounds really
207:48 Trump. And I know that sounds really stupid, but just say they released one,
207:51 stupid, but just say they released one, you know, uh nude selfie of of how crazy
207:55 you know, uh nude selfie of of how crazy would people [ __ ] go about the
207:57 would people [ __ ] go about the violation of privacy that is. How insane
208:00 violation of privacy that is. How insane would they go? Rightfully so.
208:03 would they go? Rightfully so. But
208:05 But I was the crack addict, degenerate son
208:07 I was the crack addict, degenerate son of the former vice president of the
208:08 of the former vice president of the United States and I was fair game in the
208:10 United States and I was fair game in the world. And and I had a decision that I
208:13 world. And and I had a decision that I had to make is when I would think I
208:18 had to make is when I would think I would become obsessed with the idea like
208:20 would become obsessed with the idea like I how do I ever earn your respect again?
208:25 I how do I ever earn your respect again? And then I realized
208:27 And then I realized and I don't know whether I like it was
208:30 and I don't know whether I like it was like a like a there was no like light
208:33 like a like a there was no like light bulb moment. It wasn't like being struck
208:34 bulb moment. It wasn't like being struck by lightning, but just gradually I just
208:37 by lightning, but just gradually I just realized like every day that I got out
208:39 realized like every day that I got out of bed and I put one foot in front of
208:41 of bed and I put one foot in front of the other and I sat down and I painted
208:45 the other and I sat down and I painted and I shared what I made in my creation
208:48 and I shared what I made in my creation with the people around me and then a
208:50 with the people around me and then a wider group of people and then um uh
208:53 wider group of people and then um uh pick up the phone and call somebody else
208:55 pick up the phone and call somebody else that was sick and suffering and would
208:57 that was sick and suffering and would tried to be of service to somebody that
208:59 tried to be of service to somebody that was um you know looking for a way out
209:03 was um you know looking for a way out And just as long as I was true to myself
209:06 And just as long as I was true to myself and try to uh make amends with the
209:08 and try to uh make amends with the people that I needed to make amends
209:09 people that I needed to make amends with, as long as I [ __ ] did that, I
209:12 with, as long as I [ __ ] did that, I could get to the next day.
209:20 I don't know if I'm explaining it >> no
209:20 >> no >> in any way
209:23 >> in any way >> that makes sense but they completely
209:26 >> that makes sense but they completely deconstructed me
209:29 deconstructed me and that humiliation and dehumanization
209:35 and that humiliation and dehumanization which was a fulltime 24/7 campaign that
209:40 which was a fulltime 24/7 campaign that was directly coordinated
209:42 was directly coordinated you know right from the president I mean
209:44 you know right from the president I mean the whole where's hunter thing I mean
209:46 the whole where's hunter thing I mean you don't know what kind of havoc that
209:48 you don't know what kind of havoc that wre in my life, man. When he started to
209:51 wre in my life, man. When he started to say, "Where's Hunter?" in front of
209:52 say, "Where's Hunter?" in front of 70,000, 50,000, 30,000, whatever crowd
209:55 70,000, 50,000, 30,000, whatever crowd side he made up in his head, and they
209:57 side he made up in his head, and they aired it on every single cable channel
209:59 aired it on every single cable channel and played it over and over again on on
210:01 and played it over and over again on on Fox News. Surprise, surprise, people
210:04 Fox News. Surprise, surprise, people showed up at my [ __ ] house with
210:05 showed up at my [ __ ] house with bullhorns in the middle of the night and
210:08 bullhorns in the middle of the night and followed us. I don't have any security.
210:11 followed us. I don't have any security. My wife is pregnant. They ran her off
210:12 My wife is pregnant. They ran her off the road twice.
210:16 the road twice. I mean, it has real world consequences,
210:19 I mean, it has real world consequences, man. And then, so we moved a second time
210:21 man. And then, so we moved a second time in the middle of the night and we were
210:22 in the middle of the night and we were in Venice and we lived on the canal and
210:24 in Venice and we lived on the canal and one of my friends had put us in this
210:26 one of my friends had put us in this place until they found us there. And
210:28 place until they found us there. And then they got canoes and they sat out in
210:30 then they got canoes and they sat out in the canal this far away, as far away as
210:33 the canal this far away, as far away as that wall with a bullhorn for hours on
210:36 that wall with a bullhorn for hours on hours and hours with the six-month-old
210:39 hours and hours with the six-month-old screaming, yelling um for me to come
210:41 screaming, yelling um for me to come out. And then they got a billboard truck
210:45 out. And then they got a billboard truck and they parked the billboard truck a
210:47 and they parked the billboard truck a full-size billboard digital billboard
210:49 full-size billboard digital billboard truck and ran with in front of and sat
210:51 truck and ran with in front of and sat in front of the house and ran all of the
210:53 in front of the house and ran all of the pictures from the laptop of me naked of
210:56 pictures from the laptop of me naked of me smoking crack of me being you know a
210:58 me smoking crack of me being you know a criminal for a week for 10 days for two
211:02 criminal for a week for 10 days for two weeks until we moved
211:04 weeks until we moved and then they followed us there.
211:08 and then they followed us there. And so
211:10 And so it had real real world consequences. But
211:13 it had real real world consequences. But it put me in the position of having to
211:15 it put me in the position of having to make a choice every day. Am I that?
211:18 make a choice every day. Am I that? And if I'm not, who am I?
211:22 And if I'm not, who am I? Who am I?
211:24 Who am I? Am I the character that Tucker Carlson
211:26 Am I the character that Tucker Carlson makes me out to be?
211:30 makes me out to be? Or, you know, am I um am I
211:35 Or, you know, am I um am I uh who am I?
211:37 uh who am I? And I think that I've answered that
211:39 And I think that I've answered that question and I think that that uh but
211:41 question and I think that that uh but that's for me and you know
211:45 that's for me and you know I guess the one thing I've learned is
211:47 I guess the one thing I've learned is this. You know you talk about that book
211:49 this. You know you talk about that book that you recommend to everybody which is
211:53 that you recommend to everybody which is um basically the red letter words of of
211:55 um basically the red letter words of of Christ. Um
211:57 Christ. Um >> do you want one?
211:58 >> do you want one? >> I'd love one. I I already have it on on
212:01 >> I'd love one. I I already have it on on a book on tape. I had it before you said
212:03 a book on tape. I had it before you said that I'd gotten it and um on on audio.
212:05 that I'd gotten it and um on on audio. I'd love the hard copy.
212:08 I'd love the hard copy. But what's the thing? What's a singular
212:12 But what's the thing? What's a singular message
212:14 message of Christ?
212:16 of Christ? >> Love.
212:16 >> Love. >> In my opinion, love.
212:23 Love one another. Love your neighbor. And love God.
212:33 And do not judge unless you want to be judged.
212:36 you want to be judged. But more than anything, it's just love.
212:40 But more than anything, it's just love. And
212:41 And and uh
212:44 and uh and that's what I think like I like
212:47 and that's what I think like I like what's the real epiphany is that the
212:50 what's the real epiphany is that the first place that you got to love is
212:53 first place that you got to love is yourself.
212:54 yourself. And if you're going to love yourself,
212:56 And if you're going to love yourself, you got to be honest with yourself.
212:58 you got to be honest with yourself. Because if how do you love the person
213:00 Because if how do you love the person that's keeping the secret about the
213:01 that's keeping the secret about the thing that you're ashamed of?
213:04 thing that you're ashamed of? you just can't. It's impossible.
213:08 you just can't. It's impossible. And I figured out how to love myself.
213:11 And I figured out how to love myself. And that doesn't mean
213:14 And that doesn't mean that I I don't [ __ ] up and and and uh
213:19 that I I don't [ __ ] up and and and uh you know I certainly uh fail every day
213:24 you know I certainly uh fail every day at uh applying the the at least the way
213:30 at uh applying the the at least the way in which by the way I think that you
213:31 in which by the way I think that you find the same lessons in um uh not just
213:36 find the same lessons in um uh not just in um the the red letters of of of
213:39 in um the the red letters of of of Christ the actual words that that he
213:41 Christ the actual words that that he spoke. Um I think you find it in the
213:44 spoke. Um I think you find it in the Bhagavad Gita. I think you find it
213:47 Bhagavad Gita. I think you find it throughout all of the uponads. I think
213:49 throughout all of the uponads. I think that you find it in all of the the um uh
213:53 that you find it in all of the the um uh most sacred texts.
213:55 most sacred texts. uh uh is that it comes down to one thing
213:58 uh uh is that it comes down to one thing and you asked me before is how are we
214:00 and you asked me before is how are we going to find our way out of this as a
214:02 going to find our way out of this as a as a country as a as a people as a um is
214:05 as a country as a as a people as a um is is the only way I know is the thing that
214:09 is the only way I know is the thing that people are desperate [ __ ] for is
214:12 people are desperate [ __ ] for is connection.
214:14 connection. The only way
214:16 The only way and and that's what each one of these
214:19 and and that's what each one of these messages is about of all of the sacred
214:22 messages is about of all of the sacred text is that we are all connected.
214:26 text is that we are all connected. We know whether we think it or not. I
214:28 We know whether we think it or not. I mean literally down to the scientific
214:30 mean literally down to the scientific level that Carl Sean would um uh uh uh
214:35 level that Carl Sean would um uh uh uh has taught us is that literally we are
214:38 has taught us is that literally we are stardust and we are all connected and we
214:42 stardust and we are all connected and we are not just in the metaphysical sense
214:44 are not just in the metaphysical sense but in the actual physical sense
214:47 but in the actual physical sense and um
214:54 and unless for me it just go back to to me is that
214:57 for me it just go back to to me is that unless you figure out a way to love
215:01 unless you figure out a way to love yourself,
215:03 yourself, then all you're going to end up doing is
215:05 then all you're going to end up doing is hurting other people. Anyway, I don't
215:07 hurting other people. Anyway, I don't know if that makes sense to you.
215:09 know if that makes sense to you. >> That makes sense. I mean, we had a
215:11 >> That makes sense. I mean, we had a conversation offline about psychedelics.
215:14 conversation offline about psychedelics. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
215:15 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And we talked about 5 MOD DMT.
215:18 >> And we talked about 5 MOD DMT. >> Yeah.
215:18 >> Yeah. >> And we had
215:21 >> And we had >> I guess we can't say the exact same
215:22 >> I guess we can't say the exact same experience, but
215:24 experience, but >> we had the same experience. And that
215:26 >> we had the same experience. And that experience however you arrive there is
215:29 experience however you arrive there is probably different but
215:32 probably different but >> I don't think so
215:33 >> I don't think so >> when you when you arrive
215:36 >> when you when you arrive >> you feel the oneness you feel the
215:39 >> you feel the oneness you feel the connected the connectivity you see that
215:41 connected the connectivity you see that everything's connected I mean you you
215:43 everything's connected I mean you you described it you described it the exact
215:45 described it you described it the exact same way that I describe it when I took
215:48 same way that I describe it when I took it
215:48 it >> I don't know if you were blindfolded or
215:50 >> I don't know if you were blindfolded or if you
215:51 if you >> weren't for the 5me I was for the I gain
215:54 >> weren't for the 5me I was for the I gain I was not
215:55 I was not >> I took the blind blindfold off for the 5
215:56 >> I took the blind blindfold off for the 5 MO.
215:57 MO. >> Oh, you did?
215:58 >> Oh, you did? >> Yeah. And I had no visualizations,
216:02 >> Yeah. And I had no visualizations, no hallucinations, none of that.
216:04 no hallucinations, none of that. >> Yeah.
216:05 >> Yeah. >> What I did have was a
216:09 >> What I did have was a very profound
216:12 very profound intuitiveness
216:14 intuitiveness >> and it showed me.
216:17 >> and it showed me. I could feel I could feel the flow of
216:20 I could feel I could feel the flow of energy
216:22 energy going through everything. I could feel
216:25 going through everything. I could feel it coming through the ocean, onto the
216:27 it coming through the ocean, onto the islands, back into the ocean, onto the
216:29 islands, back into the ocean, onto the onto the beach, up the trees and the
216:31 onto the beach, up the trees and the grass and the birds and the air.
216:33 grass and the birds and the air. Everything you could [clears throat]
216:35 Everything you could [clears throat] it it became
216:38 it it became everything is one, everything is good.
216:42 everything is one, everything is good. And if there's something bad, then it
216:43 And if there's something bad, then it would have been like a spotlight in the
216:46 would have been like a spotlight in the dark. You would have been able to point
216:48 dark. You would have been able to point it out immediately.
216:50 it out immediately. >> Yeah.
216:50 >> Yeah. >> I mean, like
216:52 >> I mean, like >> Yeah.
216:53 >> Yeah. And that's what I felt and that's what
216:55 And that's what I felt and that's what you described. And so, you know, when
216:58 you described. And so, you know, when you're talking about
217:01 you're talking about judgment and ridicule and all of these
217:05 judgment and ridicule and all of these things, I mean, in the end, I mean, if
217:07 things, I mean, in the end, I mean, if you're if you're spewing that [ __ ] into
217:09 you're if you're spewing that [ __ ] into the [ __ ] ecosystem, into the world,
217:11 the [ __ ] ecosystem, into the world, it's going to come back
217:12 it's going to come back >> exactly
217:13 >> exactly >> on you. And
217:16 >> on you. And if you spread goodness throughout the
217:19 if you spread goodness throughout the world, then that also is going to come
217:21 world, then that also is going to come back on you.
217:22 back on you. >> And [clears throat] that's that's one of
217:25 >> And [clears throat] that's that's one of the major life lessons I think that I
217:27 the major life lessons I think that I learned that day. Probably not even
217:29 learned that day. Probably not even realizing that I learned it that day.
217:32 realizing that I learned it that day. >> But
217:32 >> But >> no. Yeah.
217:33 >> no. Yeah. >> You know, it showed me that
217:37 >> You know, it showed me that if I treat you like [ __ ] or put anybody
217:39 if I treat you like [ __ ] or put anybody else in front of me and I treat that
217:42 else in front of me and I treat that person like [ __ ] that's
217:44 person like [ __ ] that's That's treating myself like [ __ ] because
217:46 That's treating myself like [ __ ] because that's got to [ __ ] come back to me.
217:48 that's got to [ __ ] come back to me. >> Yeah.
217:49 >> Yeah. >> Because it's all connected.
217:50 >> Because it's all connected. >> Yeah.
217:52 >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense?
217:53 >> Does that make sense? >> It makes total sense. and and and
217:56 >> It makes total sense. and and and [clears throat]
218:03 it's uh it's this the uh that experience um for
218:06 it's this the uh that experience um for me didn't have the same level kind of a
218:09 me didn't have the same level kind of a profound immediate effect as it related
218:12 profound immediate effect as it related to my um
218:14 to my um uh sobriety. But
218:18 uh sobriety. But uh but it was a here's the really
218:21 uh but it was a here's the really interesting part about it. It's the only
218:23 interesting part about it. It's the only drug that I know that I haven't um uh
218:26 drug that I know that I haven't um uh that I've taken and enjoyed that I
218:29 that I've taken and enjoyed that I haven't craved. Do you have that? I
218:31 haven't craved. Do you have that? I mean, I don't feel like the desperate
218:33 mean, I don't feel like the desperate need to try 5me again.
218:36 need to try 5me again. >> I've done it a handful of times.
218:38 >> I've done it a handful of times. >> Yeah.
218:38 >> Yeah. >> I do it I do it maybe once every couple
218:42 >> I do it I do it maybe once every couple years to
218:43 years to >> Yeah. Yeah. And myself. My point about
218:46 >> Yeah. Yeah. And myself. My point about it is
218:46 it is >> no I don't crave it because I have a
218:49 >> no I don't crave it because I have a very healthy respect for it and a
218:51 very healthy respect for it and a tremendous amount of fear.
218:53 tremendous amount of fear. >> Okay. Yeah. And that's what I was about
218:55 >> Okay. Yeah. And that's what I was about to say is that I think that I came to
218:57 to say is that I think that I came to that experience with Iowa Game and 5 MO
218:59 that experience with Iowa Game and 5 MO with the right um uh um
219:04 with the right um uh um uh respect for um and reverence for the
219:08 uh respect for um and reverence for the the plant medicine time. I tried Iawaska
219:12 the plant medicine time. I tried Iawaska um uh uh in a in a different environment
219:17 um uh uh in a in a different environment for the same purpose and had a very very
219:19 for the same purpose and had a very very very horrible dark experience. But I
219:21 very horrible dark experience. But I came to it with a very um uh insincere
219:26 came to it with a very um uh insincere >> intentions
219:26 >> intentions >> intentions um uh and both ostensibly in
219:31 >> intentions um uh and both ostensibly in an attempt to um find sobriety. I think
219:36 an attempt to um find sobriety. I think that there is so much incredible promise
219:38 that there is so much incredible promise in uh in some of these um plant
219:42 in uh in some of these um plant medicines as it relates to people that
219:44 medicines as it relates to people that suffer from PTSD, particularly in the
219:47 suffer from PTSD, particularly in the studies that they've done in the
219:48 studies that they've done in the communities. I know that you talked to
219:50 communities. I know that you talked to um Governor Nome about that and they
219:52 um Governor Nome about that and they making some real inroads.
219:55 making some real inroads. Um but um
219:58 Um but um but just all I can talk about it is from
220:01 but just all I can talk about it is from the personal experience and how it
220:03 the personal experience and how it informs me as like you know what was the
220:05 informs me as like you know what was the thing that made me ready. I don't know
220:07 thing that made me ready. I don't know the combination of uh of attempts that I
220:11 the combination of uh of attempts that I made that all led up to um me being um
220:16 made that all led up to um me being um open and willing to like like look in
220:19 open and willing to like like look in Melissa's eyes and when she said this
220:21 Melissa's eyes and when she said this ends now to say okay to a stranger and
220:24 ends now to say okay to a stranger and put myself at the mercy of someone to
220:26 put myself at the mercy of someone to trust that they um are going to help me
220:29 trust that they um are going to help me do the hard work. Um
220:33 do the hard work. Um but anyway um
220:36 but anyway um I think people are desperate to be
220:37 I think people are desperate to be connected and I think that that is um uh
220:41 connected and I think that that is um uh both a beautiful thing and one of the
220:43 both a beautiful thing and one of the things that u uh has exposed people to
220:47 things that u uh has exposed people to um and and made them very easy targets
220:51 um and and made them very easy targets including myself to the algorithms that
220:53 including myself to the algorithms that I you know bent to that to the need to
220:55 I you know bent to that to the need to be a part of something. easiest thing to
220:57 be a part of something. easiest thing to be a part of is um is uh is hate.
221:03 be a part of is um is uh is hate. You know,
221:04 You know, >> it's the easiest thing.
221:07 >> it's the easiest thing. >> It's really easy to get um people to to
221:10 >> It's really easy to get um people to to band together to uh
221:15 band together to uh to blame somebody else.
221:17 to blame somebody else. >> Mhm.
221:18 >> Mhm. >> Whether it's a group or an individual,
221:20 >> Whether it's a group or an individual, you know, and that's why I give people a
221:22 you know, and that's why I give people a real break. And I kind of understand
221:24 real break. And I kind of understand like I can imagine I I don't read the
221:27 like I can imagine I I don't read the the the comments anymore but I was in um
221:32 the the comments anymore but I was in um uh I give you an example is that Bowie
221:36 uh I give you an example is that Bowie was about not about
221:39 was about not about he was a year and a couple months old or
221:42 he was a year and a couple months old or a few months old and it was a Halloween
221:44 a few months old and it was a Halloween of 2021
221:47 of 2021 and so he's like this big and he's in a
221:50 and so he's like this big and he's in a in one of those like zip-up Chewbacca
221:52 in one of those like zip-up Chewbacca costumes It was like the coolest. He was
221:53 costumes It was like the coolest. He was the the cutest thing you've ever seen in
221:55 the the cutest thing you've ever seen in your life. And we went with my uh with
221:59 your life. And we went with my uh with Melissa Bo and my father-in-law who was
222:02 Melissa Bo and my father-in-law who was visiting from South Africa and my
222:05 visiting from South Africa and my mother-in-law had just passed 3 months
222:07 mother-in-law had just passed 3 months earlier to glyobblasto like my brother
222:10 earlier to glyobblasto like my brother did almost exactly 5 years apart from my
222:14 did almost exactly 5 years apart from my brother six. And um
222:18 brother six. And um and Lee, my father-in-law, we went to
222:22 and Lee, my father-in-law, we went to this little place in Cornell, uh which
222:24 this little place in Cornell, uh which is like in the mountains behind Malibu.
222:27 is like in the mountains behind Malibu. And I mean, you know, back it's it's
222:28 And I mean, you know, back it's it's rural. I mean, it's as rural as out
222:30 rural. I mean, it's as rural as out here, that part of California. And
222:33 here, that part of California. And there's this little place
222:35 there's this little place that outdoor seating and it was like
222:38 that outdoor seating and it was like that, you know, that in between time
222:39 that, you know, that in between time with co
222:41 with co and um [clears throat]
222:43 and um [clears throat] and I put Bowie on my shoulders and it's
222:45 and I put Bowie on my shoulders and it's one of those beautiful it's Halloween
222:47 one of those beautiful it's Halloween day and it's like around 4:00 and it's a
222:50 day and it's like around 4:00 and it's a magnificently beautiful fall day and
222:53 magnificently beautiful fall day and we're walking to the car and this couple
222:56 we're walking to the car and this couple comes like bursting around the side of
222:58 comes like bursting around the side of the restaurant because all the tables
223:00 the restaurant because all the tables were outside and is The the woman has a
223:03 were outside and is The the woman has a phone out. She's filming me with just
223:06 phone out. She's filming me with just raise in her eyes. And the guy who about
223:08 raise in her eyes. And the guy who about my size is like gets like this far from
223:12 my size is like gets like this far from me, which means he's this far from from
223:14 me, which means he's this far from from a one and a half-year-old. It's like the
223:16 a one and a half-year-old. It's like the most cute little thing you'd ever seen
223:18 most cute little thing you'd ever seen in your life. And he's screaming, "You
223:21 in your life. And he's screaming, "You [ __ ] criminal. You should [ __ ] be
223:24 [ __ ] criminal. You should [ __ ] be executed. You [ __ ] criminal
223:26 executed. You [ __ ] criminal pedophile. You I mean, and is screaming.
223:29 pedophile. You I mean, and is screaming. The woman's screaming the same thing."
223:31 The woman's screaming the same thing." And Melissa goes to step in front of us.
223:34 And Melissa goes to step in front of us. And at this point, we have Secret
223:36 And at this point, we have Secret Service. And the Secret Service like
223:37 Service. And the Secret Service like jump in and we're 2 feet from the car,
223:40 jump in and we're 2 feet from the car, put us in the car, and we go away.
223:48 And it was the first actual physical like altercation that I nearly came in.
223:50 like altercation that I nearly came in. Um, and it really shook my
223:52 Um, and it really shook my father-in-law.
223:54 father-in-law. And um
223:57 And um and I went to uh everybody went to bed
224:01 and I went to uh everybody went to bed and I'm up and I'm flipping through my
224:03 and I'm up and I'm flipping through my phone and I my Apple feed and there's
224:05 phone and I my Apple feed and there's this story
224:07 this story that was out that day about a woman that
224:11 that was out that day about a woman that was a school teacher in Orange County I
224:15 was a school teacher in Orange County I think or I forget whether it's Ventura
224:16 think or I forget whether it's Ventura County or Orange County 8th grade
224:18 County or Orange County 8th grade history teacher and one of her students
224:21 history teacher and one of her students videotaped her class and in her class
224:24 videotaped her class and in her class for close to the 40 full five full
224:27 for close to the 40 full five full minute of the class she was teaching her
224:29 minute of the class she was teaching her class that Hunter Biden was running a
224:32 class that Hunter Biden was running a pedophile ring in China and that he's
224:36 pedophile ring in China and that he's taken billions of dollars and that he
224:38 taken billions of dollars and that he was responsible with George Soros for um
224:42 was responsible with George Soros for um uh for uh being a part of the conspiracy
224:47 uh for uh being a part of the conspiracy to to release uh CO um at the Wuhan lab
224:53 to to release uh CO um at the Wuhan lab and like and just went through like
224:55 and like and just went through like everything every conspiracy, everything
224:58 everything every conspiracy, everything the New York Post, everything that Sean
225:00 the New York Post, everything that Sean Hannity like gave like a little bit of
225:02 Hannity like gave like a little bit of life to and every one of those things
225:06 life to and every one of those things and it made me realize this.
225:14 If you believe that about me, if you really believe that about me,
225:17 if you really believe that about me, wouldn't it be incumbent upon you to get
225:20 wouldn't it be incumbent upon you to get up from your [ __ ]
225:22 up from your [ __ ] lunch and [ __ ] scream at me at the
225:25 lunch and [ __ ] scream at me at the least? If you truly believed that I was
225:30 least? If you truly believed that I was a running a pedophile ring,
225:38 wouldn't it be incumbent upon you as a decent human being to confront me?
225:41 decent human being to confront me? >> Mhm.
225:42 >> Mhm. >> And it made me realize like what do we
225:45 >> And it made me realize like what do we [ __ ] do?
225:47 [ __ ] do? What do we do now, man?
225:50 What do we do now, man? Because I can come here and I can talk
225:51 Because I can come here and I can talk to you and I can make it clear and I can
225:54 to you and I can make it clear and I can say, but you know what? There's
225:57 say, but you know what? There's there is so much money to be made
226:01 there is so much money to be made in that in that hatred in those lies.
226:07 in that in that hatred in those lies. The realization that how do I combat
226:10 The realization that how do I combat that? How does anybody combat that in
226:12 that? How does anybody combat that in this moment in time?
226:15 this moment in time? You can say a lot of things about my
226:17 You can say a lot of things about my dad,
226:19 dad, you know, that I don't have any problem
226:22 you know, that I don't have any problem with about his policies or whether you
226:24 with about his policies or whether you think that he was too old or whether you
226:26 think that he was too old or whether you think that he whatever. But you know
226:29 think that he whatever. But you know what? To say anything other than my dad
226:31 what? To say anything other than my dad is the most incredible father I've ever
226:33 is the most incredible father I've ever met in my entire life and is a decent
226:35 met in my entire life and is a decent decent human being that has real empathy
226:38 decent human being that has real empathy and cares about people.
226:41 and cares about people. It's like,
226:43 It's like, you know, like I can I don't have any
226:46 you know, like I can I don't have any problem with you criticizing, but you
226:48 problem with you criticizing, but you know how many how how many people
226:52 know how many how how many people believe that my dad is a pedophile
227:00 because some [ __ ] stole my sister's trauma diary
227:02 sister's trauma diary and sold it to Don Jr.
227:05 and sold it to Don Jr. and took things in the trauma diary
227:07 and took things in the trauma diary because she had faced sexual violence
227:10 because she had faced sexual violence when she was that's my sister's story
227:13 when she was that's my sister's story and and then and then created a idea
227:17 and and then and then created a idea that uh that my father was a pedophile.
227:21 that uh that my father was a pedophile. Do you know how much that lives in that
227:23 Do you know how much that lives in that world and how much directly comes from
227:26 world and how much directly comes from the Trumps?
227:28 the Trumps? Directly comes from from literally
227:31 Directly comes from from literally people like Don Jr.
227:33 people like Don Jr. who was directly involved in that?
227:36 who was directly involved in that? Who was directly involved in contacting
227:38 Who was directly involved in contacting the owners of the gun shop to have them
227:41 the owners of the gun shop to have them go to the state police to doctor a um a
227:46 go to the state police to doctor a um a they doctorred the form? The actual
227:49 they doctorred the form? The actual form.
227:50 form. >> It's not the actual form I filled out.
227:53 >> It's not the actual form I filled out. >> What they do when I went in to buy the
227:55 >> What they do when I went in to buy the buy the gun. Okay. You have to come up
227:57 buy the gun. Okay. You have to come up with you have to have an ID.
227:59 with you have to have an ID. >> You have to have a a state ID. Mhm.
228:02 >> You have to have a a state ID. Mhm. >> And I didn't have one
228:05 >> And I didn't have one and they said, "No problem."
228:14 And so when the D the the um when uh ATF came to get the form after
228:18 when uh ATF came to get the form after they were like supposedly tipped off by
228:22 they were like supposedly tipped off by uh you know they actually they forged
228:25 uh you know they actually they forged the form the actual form of which I was
228:28 the form the actual form of which I was charged with the crime for
228:31 charged with the crime for filling out incorrectly. It wasn't the
228:33 filling out incorrectly. It wasn't the the the the form that the de that that
228:36 the the the form that the de that that the uh Department of Justice used to
228:38 the uh Department of Justice used to prosecute me was not the actual form.
228:41 prosecute me was not the actual form. The gun shop owners actually uh um uh
228:46 The gun shop owners actually uh um uh forged it.
228:47 forged it. >> How do you know that?
228:48 >> How do you know that? >> Oh, it's part of the record. You can go
228:50 >> Oh, it's part of the record. You can go look at it in the record. Go look at uh
228:52 look at it in the record. Go look at uh uh reporting uh from the Empty Wheel and
228:55 uh reporting uh from the Empty Wheel and the actual documents. I'll show you the
228:56 the actual documents. I'll show you the documents. I'll show you the two
228:57 documents. I'll show you the two different things. We tried to get them
228:58 different things. We tried to get them introduced in court and the judge said
229:00 introduced in court and the judge said it was irrelevant.
229:02 it was irrelevant. How is it irrelevant?
229:04 How is it irrelevant? >> Exactly.
229:05 >> Exactly. Exactly.
229:07 Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I literally I will show
229:09 Exactly. I mean, I literally I will show you so you can put it up on on the
229:11 you so you can put it up on on the thing. Two separate forms.
229:13 thing. Two separate forms. >> We'll put it up. You have the forms.
229:15 >> We'll put it up. You have the forms. >> Yeah.
229:15 >> Yeah. >> We'll put them up.
229:16 >> We'll put them up. >> Yeah. I'll get uh my lawyers to send
229:18 >> Yeah. I'll get uh my lawyers to send them to you.
229:19 them to you. >> And that's the point is that my my point
229:23 >> And that's the point is that my my point is is that they're literally directly
229:26 is is that they're literally directly involved in that.
229:29 involved in that. And if you can make people believe
229:33 And if you can make people believe uh the worst possible thing, what's that
229:36 uh the worst possible thing, what's that called? That that um
229:39 called? That that um I always I literally have a a u a mental
229:44 I always I literally have a a u a mental break. But the idea being is [snorts]
229:46 break. But the idea being is [snorts] that if you can convince people even a
229:49 that if you can convince people even a very small sub subset
229:52 very small sub subset that
229:54 that uh that
229:57 uh that someone is
229:59 someone is the the worst thing that you could
230:02 the the worst thing that you could possibly say what's what worse could you
230:03 possibly say what's what worse could you say about somebody other than that
230:04 say about somebody other than that they're a pedophile right I don't think
230:07 they're a pedophile right I don't think of anything that I can possibly think of
230:08 of anything that I can possibly think of that is like egregious but if you can
230:10 that is like egregious but if you can convince even 5 10% of the population
230:12 convince even 5 10% of the population that somebody's that that that they
230:14 that somebody's that that that they think somebody could be a pedophile,
230:17 think somebody could be a pedophile, then you certainly can uh convince 35%
230:20 then you certainly can uh convince 35% of the population that you just flood
230:23 of the population that you just flood the zone of that [ __ ] with that they are
230:26 the zone of that [ __ ] with that they are a um that they're corrupt
230:29 a um that they're corrupt or that they that they were part of some
230:31 or that they that they were part of some bribery scheme. Even if that bribery
230:35 bribery scheme. Even if that bribery scheme turns out to be a concoction by a
230:38 scheme turns out to be a concoction by a guy that was working with Russian
230:40 guy that was working with Russian intelligence that is sitting in a jail
230:42 intelligence that is sitting in a jail cell
230:43 cell in uh in out in California right now in
230:46 in uh in out in California right now in a federal penitentiary
230:49 a federal penitentiary blow the whole thing up.
230:52 blow the whole thing up. But that's what they do. And um
230:57 But that's what they do. And um anyway, I guess my whole point and I'm
230:59 anyway, I guess my whole point and I'm now talking um
231:03 now talking um uh too much and
231:06 uh too much and losing his train of thought is that
231:09 losing his train of thought is that um
231:12 um people are desperate for connection
231:15 people are desperate for connection and when they find connection and a
231:16 and when they find connection and a cause of a common enemy,
231:19 cause of a common enemy, um uh they feel a part of something.
231:23 um uh they feel a part of something. and what uh what we've given each other
231:27 and what uh what we've given each other uh not not you and me but um
231:31 uh not not you and me but um this country that we live in right now
231:33 this country that we live in right now all we've given each other is um people
231:35 all we've given each other is um people to to to think of as enemies.
231:38 to to to think of as enemies. >> Yeah. [clears throat]
231:40 >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> And it makes me really and I don't I
231:42 >> And it makes me really and I don't I don't mean this in any saccharine way.
231:45 don't mean this in any saccharine way. It is um is probably the most
231:49 It is um is probably the most devastating
231:51 devastating um emotionally devastating thing
231:54 um emotionally devastating thing other than the uh the death of a family
231:58 other than the uh the death of a family that I've experienced in my life is a
232:01 that I've experienced in my life is a feeling that this thing that my family
232:05 feeling that this thing that my family has given 50 years of our life to
232:08 has given 50 years of our life to is is I'm about to we're about to to
232:13 is is I'm about to we're about to to lose it. I really feel that and I don't
232:15 lose it. I really feel that and I don't think that that's kind of, you know,
232:17 think that that's kind of, you know, melodrama.
232:19 melodrama. You know, I listen to you and I listen
232:20 You know, I listen to you and I listen to other people that are on the other
232:21 to other people that are on the other side of this that that say the same
232:23 side of this that that say the same thing
232:25 thing and I kind of look at them and I think
232:28 and I kind of look at them and I think like, God, can you not see that we're
232:31 like, God, can you not see that we're trying to figure out the same thing?
232:34 trying to figure out the same thing? Can you not see the humanity in me?
232:36 Can you not see the humanity in me? because I'm not the person that high
232:39 because I'm not the person that high school that eighth grade teacher
232:42 school that eighth grade teacher informed by Alex Jones
232:45 informed by Alex Jones and
232:46 and you know uh Jesse Waters would have you
232:49 you know uh Jesse Waters would have you believe that I am. Promise you I'm not.
232:54 believe that I am. Promise you I'm not. Spend a minute
232:56 Spend a minute because those [ __ ]
232:59 because those [ __ ] they got one thing that they're doing.
233:02 they got one thing that they're doing. They're making money
233:05 They're making money as we all suffer.
233:08 as we all suffer. They are they're just laughing all the
233:12 They are they're just laughing all the way to the bank.
233:42 you know, driving with a friend of mine.
233:46 driving with a friend of mine. He's a really close friend. He's had
233:48 He's a really close friend. He's had some real health problems. And um I came
233:52 some real health problems. And um I came back in Delaware and we're I took him
233:55 back in Delaware and we're I took him out to lunch
233:58 out to lunch and [clears throat] we drove by one of
234:00 and [clears throat] we drove by one of those like huge American flags
234:04 those like huge American flags and I used to fill me with an enormous
234:06 and I used to fill me with an enormous sense of pride
234:14 and I'm driving by it and he goes he goes Jesus Christ.
234:17 he goes Jesus Christ. And I don't know of anybody that's more
234:18 And I don't know of anybody that's more patriotic than this person. He's like
234:22 patriotic than this person. He's like makes me cry.
234:35 And I am I think
234:38 think who who did I [ __ ] let take that away
234:40 who who did I [ __ ] let take that away from me?
234:42 from me? I got mad at myself.
234:52 You know, I I get I get so angry and I find that the thing that I get angry
234:53 find that the thing that I get angry about are from the perspective of a of a
234:56 about are from the perspective of a of a son, you know, like I really went off on
234:59 son, you know, like I really went off on George Clooney and I really went off on
235:01 George Clooney and I really went off on the Pot Save America guys. And and um
235:05 the Pot Save America guys. And and um and the reason I did is because I think
235:06 and the reason I did is because I think they're a bunch of [ __ ] arrogant
235:08 they're a bunch of [ __ ] arrogant [ __ ]
235:10 [ __ ] I do.
235:13 I do. I think that Jake Jake Tapper is a is a
235:16 I think that Jake Jake Tapper is a is a um is a pompous, arrogant [ __ ]
235:25 But you know what? I think they love this country.
235:31 I don't think that they're bad people. I think they're just arrogant [ __ ]
235:34 I think they're just arrogant [ __ ] bucks from my own personal experience.
235:39 bucks from my own personal experience. And my point is it like
235:58 anybody to steal that pride from me? What What is with Jake Tapper? He's such
236:01 What What is with Jake Tapper? He's such a He's such a I mean, look,
236:05 a He's such a I mean, look, I almost got in a fight with Jake Tapper
236:06 I almost got in a fight with Jake Tapper at the Super Bowl in I forget when it
236:08 at the Super Bowl in I forget when it was.
236:09 was. >> I mean, the first Eagles Super Bowl. Uh,
236:11 >> I mean, the first Eagles Super Bowl. Uh, not the first, but uh, it must have
236:14 not the first, but uh, it must have been. It was shortly after my brother's
236:15 been. It was shortly after my brother's death. And he had done something that I
236:16 death. And he had done something that I thought was totally [ __ ] up. And I
236:18 thought was totally [ __ ] up. And I told him I would [ __ ] if it weren't
236:19 told him I would [ __ ] if it weren't in front of a lot of people, I would
236:20 in front of a lot of people, I would knock him the [ __ ] out. And this is how
236:22 knock him the [ __ ] out. And this is how much of a [ __ ] he is.
236:25 much of a [ __ ] he is. He called my dad and demanded an
236:28 He called my dad and demanded an apology. What? [laughter]
236:32 apology. What? [laughter] >> He's a grown [ __ ] man.
236:35 >> He's a grown [ __ ] man. He called one of my dad's staffers and
236:37 He called one of my dad's staffers and he calls and he said, "I felt threatened
236:39 he calls and he said, "I felt threatened and Hunter owes me an apology." And by
236:42 and Hunter owes me an apology." And by the way, I I I felt incredibly
236:44 the way, I I I felt incredibly justified. I'm not going to tell this
236:45 justified. I'm not going to tell this story because it that it's it's it's too
236:47 story because it that it's it's it's too convoluted. But just that that's who
236:49 convoluted. But just that that's who Jake Tapper is. I mean, you know, he
236:52 Jake Tapper is. I mean, you know, he talks big, hides behind a pen in a desk,
236:55 talks big, hides behind a pen in a desk, and and I don't think that he
236:57 and and I don't think that he contributes in any way to the to the
236:59 contributes in any way to the to the discourse or provides any real
237:00 discourse or provides any real journalism whatsoever. And so, I'm
237:03 journalism whatsoever. And so, I'm allowed to to to have my own personal
237:05 allowed to to to have my own personal feelings, but my whole point of it is is
237:07 feelings, but my whole point of it is is that like, who cares though?
237:09 that like, who cares though? >> Is he the one that kind of like did he
237:11 >> Is he the one that kind of like did he write a book about your dad's cognitive
237:13 write a book about your dad's cognitive decline and released it like right at
237:15 decline and released it like right at the very end of the event?
237:16 the very end of the event? >> Yes. right at the end like within 2
237:18 >> Yes. right at the end like within 2 weeks of the
237:19 weeks of the >> way to jump on the bandwagon, bud.
237:21 >> way to jump on the bandwagon, bud. >> Yeah.
237:22 >> Yeah. >> You're about 3 years and 6 months. Too
237:25 >> You're about 3 years and 6 months. Too [ __ ] late.
237:25 [ __ ] late. >> Yeah. No sources. No. No on the record
237:28 >> Yeah. No sources. No. No on the record sources.
237:29 sources. >> No [ __ ]
237:29 >> No [ __ ] >> None.
237:30 >> None. >> Wow.
237:31 >> Wow. >> Nobody on the record will go on the
237:32 >> Nobody on the record will go on the record. But, you know, he was certain
237:34 record. But, you know, he was certain and he was absolutely this and that and
237:36 and he was absolutely this and that and the other thing. He's just so full of
237:37 the other thing. He's just so full of [ __ ]
237:38 [ __ ] >> Anyway,
237:39 >> Anyway, >> he really came around to the narrative
237:41 >> he really came around to the narrative early on that one.
237:42 early on that one. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
237:45 >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> [snorts]
237:45 >> [snorts] >> Uh but my point is this is so would a a
237:50 >> Uh but my point is this is so would a a world of incredibly disingenuous and um
237:54 world of incredibly disingenuous and um uh but I I I
237:59 uh but I I I don't know um
238:03 don't know um what it is that is like I I'm I'm at a
238:06 what it is that is like I I'm I'm at a loss
238:08 loss about what it is brings it together. And
238:10 about what it is brings it together. And that brings us back to this conversation
238:12 that brings us back to this conversation is that at the very beginning you saying
238:14 is that at the very beginning you saying to me, I can't believe that you like
238:15 to me, I can't believe that you like like this. Like what don't you get is
238:19 like this. Like what don't you get is this is that I don't get any of that
238:22 this is that I don't get any of that from listening to you. Even though you
238:24 from listening to you. Even though you you [clears throat] even when you
238:26 you [clears throat] even when you platform people that I think are [ __ ]
238:27 platform people that I think are [ __ ] out of their mind
238:29 out of their mind and I don't say platform,
238:30 and I don't say platform, [clears throat]
238:31 [clears throat] but you know what?
238:36 [laughter] From probably the majority of your
238:38 From probably the majority of your audience are thinking this exactly that
238:40 audience are thinking this exactly that about me right now.
238:42 about me right now. >> Guarantee you.
238:43 >> Guarantee you. >> Yeah, guarantee you. Um uh
238:48 >> Yeah, guarantee you. Um uh but um I don't know. I don't know how we
238:50 but um I don't know. I don't know how we how we fix it.
238:52 how we fix it. I don't know.
238:54 I don't know. Well,
238:56 Well, >> let me uh second here. I'll tell you how
238:59 >> let me uh second here. I'll tell you how we'll fix it.
239:06 >> I thought you were going to get that gun in the corner. [laughter]
239:08 in the corner. [laughter] >> I said, "What the fuck?"
239:09 >> I said, "What the fuck?" >> That's method.
239:10 >> That's method. >> That would be method number two.
239:12 >> That would be method number two. >> I literally thought that you were going
239:13 >> I literally thought that you were going over to pull that [laughter] Glock off
239:15 over to pull that [laughter] Glock off the [ __ ]
239:17 the [ __ ] Jesus Christ,
239:19 Jesus Christ, he's getting real here. I got something
239:22 he's getting real here. I got something for you, buddy.
239:28 >> What is today? The 16th. >> 16th.
239:41 Great. Oh, man. Oh, dude. I It's a It's a drawing I did.
239:43 a drawing I did. >> That's a drawing.
239:44 >> That's a drawing. >> Yeah. So, it's um Anyway, it's my it's
239:48 >> Yeah. So, it's um Anyway, it's my it's my version of an eco. You can You got to
239:50 my version of an eco. You can You got to get You got to put it in a in a uh
239:53 get You got to put it in a in a uh Amazon frame and put it in your bathroom
239:55 Amazon frame and put it in your bathroom somewhere.
239:55 somewhere. >> Yeah. Yeah.
239:57 >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Let's not go in that Amazon frame. Are
239:59 >> Let's not go in that Amazon frame. Are you [ __ ] kidding me?
240:01 you [ __ ] kidding me? >> Anyway,
240:02 >> Anyway, >> dude, thank you.
240:05 >> dude, thank you. >> This is awesome.
240:07 >> This is awesome. >> Thanks, man.
240:09 >> Thanks, man. >> I've always wanted some Hunter Biden
240:10 >> I've always wanted some Hunter Biden art.
240:11 art. >> Well, you got it.
240:11 >> Well, you got it. >> Thank you.
240:12 >> Thank you. >> Yeah,
240:14 >> Yeah, >> that is awesome. Of course, the next one
240:17 >> that is awesome. Of course, the next one um according to the New York Post is is
240:19 um according to the New York Post is is at least a half million dollars.
240:21 at least a half million dollars. [laughter]
240:23 [laughter] I'll be expecting that. You can you can
240:26 I'll be expecting that. You can you can pay me in um uh in Trump cryptocurrency.
240:31 pay me in um uh in Trump cryptocurrency. [laughter]
240:35 >> I don't have any of that, but >> Okay.
240:35 >> Okay. >> But [clears throat] uh yeah,
240:37 >> But [clears throat] uh yeah, >> here you go. Jesus calling.
240:39 >> here you go. Jesus calling. >> Thank you, man. I appreciate
240:42 >> Thank you, man. I appreciate >> the only thing that fixes this. Yep.
240:46 >> the only thing that fixes this. Yep. Yeah.
240:48 Yeah. Thank you.
240:49 Thank you. >> You're welcome. Thank you. This is
240:52 >> You're welcome. Thank you. This is [ __ ] awesome.
240:52 [ __ ] awesome. >> Cool.
240:53 >> Cool. >> Thank you.
240:55 >> Thank you. >> Glad you like it, man.
241:01 >> Lot of dark stuff going on in the world right now. And it's to the point where I
241:03 right now. And it's to the point where I don't even believe my own eyes anymore
241:05 don't even believe my own eyes anymore because I cannot verify what people are
241:08 because I cannot verify what people are saying about all the political violence,
241:11 saying about all the political violence, the division. I partner with this
241:14 the division. I partner with this production company called Ironclad and
241:16 production company called Ironclad and we're doing an eightpart audio series on
241:20 we're doing an eightpart audio series on SCOPS on why foreign countries,
241:23 SCOPS on why foreign countries, governments, maybe even our own
241:25 governments, maybe even our own government would conduct a SCOP on its
241:28 government would conduct a SCOP on its own people. And I just think that that
241:30 own people. And I just think that that this series is going to be extremely
241:32 this series is going to be extremely important because it's going to open the
241:34 important because it's going to open the eyes of people on why these things
241:36 eyes of people on why these things happen. You can head over to
241:38 happen. You can head over to scopshow.com,
241:40 scopshow.com, order it today. I think you're going to
241:42 order it today. I think you're going to get a lot out of this. Who's pulling the
241:44 get a lot out of this. Who's pulling the strings? Who's pulling them?
242:32 the my explanation as it relates to the Don Junior's involvement with my
242:34 Don Junior's involvement with my sister's diary is that I believe with
242:36 sister's diary is that I believe with the they uh the person that stole it
242:38 the they uh the person that stole it initially brought it to a fundraiser at
242:41 initially brought it to a fundraiser at Mara Lago and um
242:44 Mara Lago and um and uh and try and and and got it to
242:48 and uh and try and and and got it to like Don Jr. who I think was the one who
242:50 like Don Jr. who I think was the one who eventually connected them with the
242:51 eventually connected them with the people at Project Veritas and and then
242:54 people at Project Veritas and and then they just weaponized [clears throat] it.
242:55 they just weaponized [clears throat] it. Um and uh
243:00 Um and uh um
243:01 um do you mind if I ask what was the I mean
243:04 do you mind if I ask what was the I mean I'm just curious what was the
243:06 I'm just curious what was the conversation within the family when when
243:08 conversation within the family when when that came out?
243:10 that came out? the the the the
243:12 the the the the >> oh just god like the the like
243:15 >> oh just god like the the like >> the journal
243:16 >> the journal >> um uh like barbarity of of these people
243:22 >> um uh like barbarity of of these people um and I really mean it. It's like
243:26 um and I really mean it. It's like uh
243:28 uh like how do you get how do you get away
243:30 like how do you get how do you get away with that and not um
243:35 with that and not um uh pay for it? I mean like again like
243:39 uh pay for it? I mean like again like let's move this into the the laptop.
243:43 let's move this into the the laptop. Okay, this the same thing and uh writ
243:46 Okay, this the same thing and uh writ large you know in which
243:50 large you know in which you steal someone's digital
243:55 you steal someone's digital life
243:57 life and you turn it into whatever boogeyman
244:02 and you turn it into whatever boogeyman that you want to.
244:03 that you want to. >> Mhm. And um and
244:07 >> Mhm. And um and [clears throat] and just from uh let's
244:09 [clears throat] and just from uh let's just go to the to the most basic level
244:12 just go to the to the most basic level of of uh
244:15 of of uh the
244:17 the uh of how wrong that is of of what what
244:21 uh of how wrong that is of of what what a what a it what a a
244:31 incredible invasion of anyone's privacy that is.
244:33 that is. And
244:35 And for instance, is it
244:38 for instance, is it if I stole your phone, you have an
244:40 if I stole your phone, you have an encrypted phone, and um and I was able
244:44 encrypted phone, and um and I was able to then cobble together or broke into
244:48 to then cobble together or broke into your iCloud, of which I know that they
244:49 your iCloud, of which I know that they did, or um uh and cobbled together
244:54 did, or um uh and cobbled together whatever they ended up calling a laptop.
244:57 whatever they ended up calling a laptop. Okay.
244:59 Okay. and then
245:02 and then um uh and was able to through the the
245:06 um uh and was able to through the the worst period in your life. Okay. Which
245:08 worst period in your life. Okay. Which you talk openly about. You talk openly
245:10 you talk openly about. You talk openly about you know um uh you know your
245:14 about you know um uh you know your issues with um uh substances that that
245:17 issues with um uh substances that that didn't make you proud of who you're
245:19 didn't make you proud of who you're being and and try to change. And I took
245:22 being and and try to change. And I took those moments
245:24 those moments and I uh uh
245:28 and I uh uh and I took the the uh every photo that
245:33 and I took the the uh every photo that was taken of you during that time in the
245:36 was taken of you during that time in the worst period of your life and and made a
245:40 worst period of your life and and made a monster out of you in order to and I
245:44 monster out of you in order to and I know that was never about me.
245:46 know that was never about me. It was about my dad
245:49 It was about my dad and it was to destroy to destroy my dad.
245:51 and it was to destroy to destroy my dad. I think that the the thing that they
245:53 I think that the the thing that they truly thought I think that the thing
245:54 truly thought I think that the thing that Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani
245:57 that Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani believed was that they would be able to
245:59 believed was that they would be able to repeat history in the same way that they
246:02 repeat history in the same way that they um uh and do the same thing that they
246:04 um uh and do the same thing that they did to um uh uh Senator Musky in 1972.
246:12 did to um uh uh Senator Musky in 1972. And they broke into his wife's
246:14 And they broke into his wife's psychiatrist office. They stole the um
246:17 psychiatrist office. They stole the um uh their private notes. Um they revealed
246:21 uh their private notes. Um they revealed that she was a um struggled with
246:23 that she was a um struggled with alcoholism and um you know every other
246:27 alcoholism and um you know every other embarrassing thing about her. And Ed
246:30 embarrassing thing about her. And Ed Musky, everybody knew um who was a
246:32 Musky, everybody knew um who was a decent hardworking um bluecollar senator
246:35 decent hardworking um bluecollar senator from uh New Hampshire uh that uh that by
246:40 from uh New Hampshire uh that uh that by all accounts was the only guy that could
246:42 all accounts was the only guy that could beat Nixon at that time. And they um and
246:45 beat Nixon at that time. And they um and they broke him. They broke him because
246:48 they broke him. They broke him because they knew there was nothing that he
246:49 they knew there was nothing that he cared about more in this world than his
246:51 cared about more in this world than his relationship with his wife and his wife
246:53 relationship with his wife and his wife and his family. And they broke him and
246:57 and his family. And they broke him and he uh cried on stage and talking about
247:00 he uh cried on stage and talking about her and in a in a in a time in which
247:02 her and in a in a in a time in which that was, you know, the end of
247:04 that was, you know, the end of somebody's political career and he had
247:06 somebody's political career and he had to drop out of the race. And that was
247:09 to drop out of the race. And that was what their intent was with um me. It was
247:13 what their intent was with um me. It was never about um uh because there is no
247:17 never about um uh because there is no evidence of of uh of corruption in the
247:21 evidence of of uh of corruption in the laptop. None. Tell me what you think the
247:24 laptop. None. Tell me what you think the laptop is. I mean, what what
247:26 laptop is. I mean, what what >> what do I think the laptop is? I think
247:28 >> what do I think the laptop is? I think that the [clears throat] I think that I
247:32 that the [clears throat] I think that I found out about the laptop. I think the
247:34 found out about the laptop. I think the first time I've I I found out about the
247:36 first time I've I I found out about the laptop, I interviewed this guy, Peter
247:38 laptop, I interviewed this guy, Peter Schwitzer,
247:40 Schwitzer, and that was, if I remember correctly,
247:42 and that was, if I remember correctly, this is years ago, that was a major part
247:44 this is years ago, that was a major part of the interview.
247:45 of the interview. >> And he actually gave me a hard drive of
247:50 >> And he actually gave me a hard drive of the laptop.
247:51 the laptop. >> Yeah.
247:52 >> Yeah. >> And said that this had been scrubbed
247:56 >> And said that this had been scrubbed to take all the kitty porn off of it.
247:58 to take all the kitty porn off of it. Otherwise, I couldn't have this. It
247:59 Otherwise, I couldn't have this. It would be illegal.
248:00 would be illegal. >> Yeah. Exactly. I never opened it cuz I
248:03 >> Yeah. Exactly. I never opened it cuz I was I just
248:03 was I just >> Yeah, but that's my point is that's the
248:05 >> Yeah, but that's my point is that's the [ __ ] that they did.
248:06 [ __ ] that they did. >> That's that's what they and then and
248:08 >> That's that's what they and then and then of course all the pictures of you
248:10 then of course all the pictures of you with hookers and
248:13 with hookers and the barista emails and apparently it was
248:15 the barista emails and apparently it was all on there and the fact in and that
248:19 all on there and the fact in and that you had dropped it off to a laptop
248:21 you had dropped it off to a laptop repair guy.
248:22 repair guy. >> Yeah. So, but for instance, just that is
248:25 >> Yeah. So, but for instance, just that is that remember the first thing that Rudy
248:27 that remember the first thing that Rudy Giuliani did.
248:29 Giuliani did. It's called eliminationist rhetoric is
248:32 It's called eliminationist rhetoric is that he went to the steps of the
248:33 that he went to the steps of the Newcastle County courthouse in Delaware
248:36 Newcastle County courthouse in Delaware and stood on the steps and demanded a
248:39 and stood on the steps and demanded a meeting with the uh the chief of the
248:41 meeting with the uh the chief of the Newcastle County police in Delaware and
248:43 Newcastle County police in Delaware and the state police and the attorney
248:44 the state police and the attorney general and the US attorney. And he said
248:48 general and the US attorney. And he said basically he pulled a um uh
248:51 basically he pulled a um uh you know one of those I have here in my
248:54 you know one of those I have here in my hands a evidence of uh you know uh the
248:57 hands a evidence of uh you know uh the mistreatment of children and blah blah
248:59 mistreatment of children and blah blah blah blah blah.
249:01 blah blah blah. It's just all complete and utter
249:04 It's just all complete and utter [ __ ]
249:06 [ __ ] So Peter Schwitzer Breitbart he said
249:09 So Peter Schwitzer Breitbart he said they had to scrub it of of uh of you
249:12 they had to scrub it of of uh of you know uh of of images of of children. Let
249:16 know uh of of images of of children. Let me ask you a question. Do you think
249:17 me ask you a question. Do you think those images would have come out by now?
249:19 those images would have come out by now? I mean, it is absolutely insane in a
249:23 I mean, it is absolutely insane in a complete and utter fabrication. A
249:26 complete and utter fabrication. A complete lie
249:28 complete lie completely. But that's where they
249:30 completely. But that's where they started because they realized that it
249:32 started because they realized that it didn't have any evidence of the
249:33 didn't have any evidence of the corruption that they then concocted
249:36 corruption that they then concocted about a bribe or might uh uh you know uh
249:40 about a bribe or might uh uh you know uh billions of dollars flowing through like
249:42 billions of dollars flowing through like you say the Bereisma emails. Yeah, there
249:44 you say the Bereisma emails. Yeah, there were emails from and to Berisma from me
249:47 were emails from and to Berisma from me as a board member of a company in which
249:49 as a board member of a company in which I served on and I was transparent about
249:52 I served on and I was transparent about and I actually put out a press release
249:54 and I actually put out a press release about in which show no evidence of any
249:58 about in which show no evidence of any any whatsoever criminal activity,
250:01 any whatsoever criminal activity, any involvement of my father. Not one
250:04 any involvement of my father. Not one single communication between me and
250:07 single communication between me and anyone in my dad's staff or my dad or
250:09 anyone in my dad's staff or my dad or anyone about me asking for a favor on
250:13 anyone about me asking for a favor on behalf of a client. Not one. Not a
250:15 behalf of a client. Not one. Not a single one.
250:17 single one. So what they originally revert to? They
250:21 So what they originally revert to? They originally reverted to basically
250:24 originally reverted to basically accusing me of the worst thing that you
250:26 accusing me of the worst thing that you could possibly ever accuse anybody of.
250:30 could possibly ever accuse anybody of. That
250:30 That >> child porn.
250:31 >> child porn. >> Yeah.
250:33 >> Yeah. I mean,
250:36 I mean, imagine having to wake up from that. I
250:39 imagine having to wake up from that. I wake up the next day,
250:45 from that, and thinking
250:47 and thinking even if one of the people that you
250:49 even if one of the people that you respect in the world
250:52 respect in the world believe that that could be true,
250:56 believe that that could be true, like, oh my god.
250:59 like, oh my god. Like, how do you ever get out of bed?
251:03 Like, how do you ever get out of bed? And then how do you defend yourself,
251:04 And then how do you defend yourself, Sean?
251:06 Sean? What do you go out and do this? You go,
251:07 What do you go out and do this? You go, I I'm not a I'm not a pedophile. I'm not
251:09 I I'm not a I'm not a pedophile. I'm not a pedophile. Like literally, like I
251:12 a pedophile. Like literally, like I don't beat my wife.
251:14 don't beat my wife. You know what I mean?
251:22 And that's what they did. And then they just repeated it over and over again
251:24 just repeated it over and over again until it kind of played out until at
251:27 until it kind of played out until at least some responsible journalists said,
251:28 least some responsible journalists said, "Okay, like if you keep like we're not
251:32 "Okay, like if you keep like we're not going to keep repeating this because
251:33 going to keep repeating this because it's patently false and there's zero
251:35 it's patently false and there's zero evidence of it." So then they moved on
251:38 evidence of it." So then they moved on to the next thing. They moved on to the
251:40 to the next thing. They moved on to the next thing that I was a, you know, uh,
251:42 next thing that I was a, you know, uh, the next thing was a like a symbiotic
251:46 the next thing was a like a symbiotic relationship between the Russian GRU and
251:49 relationship between the Russian GRU and um, and like Steve Bannon and GA, the
251:51 um, and like Steve Bannon and GA, the Chinese billionaire, you know, that were
251:53 Chinese billionaire, you know, that were in the Chinese that that that that cult
251:56 in the Chinese that that that that cult in which what they determined then was
251:59 in which what they determined then was is that I was funding weapons labs in
252:03 is that I was funding weapons labs in Ukraine with George Soros to infect
252:05 Ukraine with George Soros to infect migratory birds to um, murder the
252:08 migratory birds to um, murder the population in Russia.
252:10 population in Russia. That was a whole thing that got me
252:12 That was a whole thing that got me sanctioned by the um uh by the Russians.
252:14 sanctioned by the um uh by the Russians. They did a like a two and a half hour
252:16 They did a like a two and a half hour press conference on it and then it just
252:19 press conference on it and then it just comes around and then in the in the
252:23 comes around and then in the in the the right-wing, you know, uh podcast
252:25 the right-wing, you know, uh podcast ecosphere from from Alex Jones back to
252:29 ecosphere from from Alex Jones back to uh you know, uh Russia, back to Chinese
252:32 uh you know, uh Russia, back to Chinese operatives, back to Gao, back to Bannon,
252:35 operatives, back to Gao, back to Bannon, and then they recycle it again. And then
252:38 and then they recycle it again. And then what ends up happening is that the New
252:39 what ends up happening is that the New York Post and and and Sean Hannity um
252:42 York Post and and and Sean Hannity um you know give it some credence. They
252:44 you know give it some credence. They don't do it in a way that is completely
252:46 don't do it in a way that is completely um uh absurd, but they report on the
252:49 um uh absurd, but they report on the accusations. And then the New York Times
252:53 accusations. And then the New York Times writes a story about the story. And then
252:56 writes a story about the story. And then it gets on CNN and Jake Tapper does a
252:59 it gets on CNN and Jake Tapper does a piece on, well, this may not be true,
253:03 piece on, well, this may not be true, but clearly there's uh you know, Hunter
253:05 but clearly there's uh you know, Hunter Biden's corrupt.
253:07 Biden's corrupt. It's like what the [ __ ] are you talking
253:09 It's like what the [ __ ] are you talking about?
253:11 about? And what do you do? So, I started the
253:13 And what do you do? So, I started the day as a pedophile and I went to bed um
253:18 day as a pedophile and I went to bed um as a um uh as some super spy that is um
253:24 as a um uh as some super spy that is um uh providing billions of dollars in in
253:26 uh providing billions of dollars in in in funding for weapons labs. And I woke
253:29 in funding for weapons labs. And I woke up the next morning um being uh accused
253:32 up the next morning um being uh accused of uh of something else.
253:37 of uh of something else. And it and it became almost impossible.
253:39 And it and it became almost impossible. So what I can tell you about the laptop
253:41 So what I can tell you about the laptop is that there is no laptop. That that's
253:44 is that there is no laptop. That that's [ __ ] What was provided out there?
253:46 [ __ ] What was provided out there? What the um
253:48 What the um >> there was no [ __ ] laptop.
253:50 >> there was no [ __ ] laptop. >> There is an actual physical laptop that
253:54 >> There is an actual physical laptop that somebody had, but the guy that had that
253:57 somebody had, but the guy that had that said he had the laptop.
253:59 said he had the laptop. The existence of the search for the
254:01 The existence of the search for the laptop came before he was even a twinkle
254:05 laptop came before he was even a twinkle in Rudy Giuliani's eye. There were
254:07 in Rudy Giuliani's eye. There were people talk to Le Parnes. Le Parnes
254:10 people talk to Le Parnes. Le Parnes literally went to Ukraine to get a
254:12 literally went to Ukraine to get a laptop from Dimmitri Fertach to get a
254:16 laptop from Dimmitri Fertach to get a hard drive Hunter Biden's hard drive
254:18 hard drive Hunter Biden's hard drive from Dmitri Fertach and Andre Durkatch
254:21 from Dmitri Fertach and Andre Durkatch in Ukraine in Austria 4 months before
254:25 in Ukraine in Austria 4 months before John Paul McGisac ever even nobody ever
254:28 John Paul McGisac ever even nobody ever existed.
254:30 existed. And so what they did is they cobbled
254:31 And so what they did is they cobbled together stolen, concocted, fabricated
254:35 together stolen, concocted, fabricated mishmash of digital information largely
254:39 mishmash of digital information largely which is you know thousands and
254:41 which is you know thousands and thousands and thousands of emails
254:44 thousands and thousands of emails for 20 from 25 years. I mean no laptop
254:48 for 20 from 25 years. I mean no laptop could have held all of that. And so what
254:51 could have held all of that. And so what they did is they just they they put it
254:53 they did is they just they they put it all together and then they talk about
254:54 all together and then they talk about it. I mean, John Paul McIac, who is
254:56 it. I mean, John Paul McIac, who is literally blind,
254:58 literally blind, has no there's no videotape of me ever
255:02 has no there's no videotape of me ever dropping off a laptop. There's no
255:04 dropping off a laptop. There's no whatever.
255:05 whatever. >> You You never dropped off a laptop.
255:07 >> You You never dropped off a laptop. >> I have no recollection whatsoever of
255:09 >> I have no recollection whatsoever of ever dropping off a laptop to John Paul
255:12 ever dropping off a laptop to John Paul McIac to his shop. And so what he did
255:15 McIac to his shop. And so what he did though, let me just put it this way. Say
255:17 though, let me just put it this way. Say I did, say I took my laptop in to get
255:21 I did, say I took my laptop in to get repaired, okay? and
255:25 repaired, okay? and you're John Paul McIac and what he says
255:28 you're John Paul McIac and what he says is he reads and he goes to repair the
255:32 is he reads and he goes to repair the laptop but then he starts to read the
255:35 laptop but then he starts to read the files in the in the laptop
255:38 files in the in the laptop and he reads a file and he sees a files
255:42 and he reads a file and he sees a files about Burisma by the way a board of
255:45 about Burisma by the way a board of which I'm on of a independent private
255:48 which I'm on of a independent private Ukrainian company in which I am a a
255:51 Ukrainian company in which I am a a board member doing corporate governance
255:53 board member doing corporate governance as an attorney
255:56 as an attorney and he says that the only thing that he
255:59 and he says that the only thing that he can think of doing is calling Rudy
256:02 can think of doing is calling Rudy Giuliani.
256:04 Giuliani. He's a laptop repair shop owner in
256:07 He's a laptop repair shop owner in Wilmington, Delaware who live whose
256:09 Wilmington, Delaware who live whose store is three and a half miles at most
256:13 store is three and a half miles at most from where my parents live, where
256:14 from where my parents live, where everybody knows my parents live. So if
256:16 everybody knows my parents live. So if he had a laptop that he wanted to
256:17 he had a laptop that he wanted to return, he thinks that the best thing to
256:19 return, he thinks that the best thing to do is call Julie Anise
256:23 do is call Julie Anise Rudy Giuliani's lawyer Bob Costello and
256:26 Rudy Giuliani's lawyer Bob Costello and give it to my sworn enemy
256:30 give it to my sworn enemy who then take it and in it I will once
256:33 who then take it and in it I will once again ask you this question. What crime
256:37 again ask you this question. What crime has anyone ever
256:39 has anyone ever >> But there was no laptop, right?
256:41 >> But there was no laptop, right? >> No. There he has he had he took a hard
256:44 >> No. There he has he had he took a hard drive. He took whatever he said. He said
256:47 drive. He took whatever he said. He said that he had a damaged laptop and what he
256:49 that he had a damaged laptop and what he did is he downloaded a hard drive and
256:51 did is he downloaded a hard drive and then he gave that hard drive to um Bob
256:53 then he gave that hard drive to um Bob Castello and then from that hard drive
256:57 Castello and then from that hard drive um uh you have people like Patrick Burn
256:59 um uh you have people like Patrick Burn and um and Jack Maxi and a whole bunch
257:02 and um and Jack Maxi and a whole bunch of other people like I could list the
257:04 of other people like I could list the names that come together. There's one
257:07 names that come together. There's one woman that's like known as cat lady or
257:09 woman that's like known as cat lady or something like that literally. And what
257:10 something like that literally. And what they say that they did is they cobbled
257:12 they say that they did is they cobbled together all of this digital material
257:14 together all of this digital material that was floating out everywhere that
257:16 that was floating out everywhere that had been stolen from phones that have
257:17 had been stolen from phones that have been taken from uh the dark web that had
257:19 been taken from uh the dark web that had been taken from the hard drive that John
257:22 been taken from the hard drive that John and they consolidated it all and they
257:24 and they consolidated it all and they made it out to be this thing. And so
257:26 made it out to be this thing. And so then the story doesn't become about the
257:28 then the story doesn't become about the laptop at all
257:30 laptop at all >> because there's nothing in the laptop
257:31 >> because there's nothing in the laptop other than a record of me being a
257:34 other than a record of me being a degenerate a degenerate drug addict in
257:36 degenerate a degenerate drug addict in my in at the worst moment in my life. at
257:39 my in at the worst moment in my life. at the worst moment in my life of people
257:41 the worst moment in my life of people clearly me not taking selfies of people
257:43 clearly me not taking selfies of people clearly taking pictures of me in the
257:46 clearly taking pictures of me in the rooms that I found myself in smoking
257:48 rooms that I found myself in smoking crack, doing drugs, doing whatever.
257:56 Nothing criminal other than obviously drug use and what
258:00 other than obviously drug use and what other people would think is, you know,
258:03 other people would think is, you know, abhorrent behavior.
258:06 abhorrent behavior. I mean, whatever. I mean, having sex
258:08 I mean, whatever. I mean, having sex with women
258:10 with women and so they take that and then you can
258:13 and so they take that and then you can say whatever you want. No one no one
258:16 say whatever you want. No one no one read the stories.
258:18 read the stories. When you put me naked on the front page
258:21 When you put me naked on the front page of the New York Post over and over again
258:24 of the New York Post over and over again with a crackpipe in my mouth, it becomes
258:26 with a crackpipe in my mouth, it becomes like gold. And Miranda Divine said it
258:29 like gold. And Miranda Divine said it was the most read the the most followed
258:32 was the most read the the most followed story in the history of the paper.
258:34 story in the history of the paper. >> Wow. She's written and sold two
258:36 >> Wow. She's written and sold two bestselling books based upon that.
258:39 bestselling books based upon that. And it's all about the pictures. It's
258:41 And it's all about the pictures. It's like sex, drugs, and politics, man. And
258:44 like sex, drugs, and politics, man. And that's what they did. So then
258:47 that's what they did. So then it became about the cover up of the
258:49 it became about the cover up of the laptop story. You know why Twitter took
258:51 laptop story. You know why Twitter took down that story?
258:54 down that story? because non-consensual um uh pornography
258:59 because non-consensual um uh pornography is because under what is the law today
259:03 is because under what is the law today that was pushed by Melania Trump is
259:05 that was pushed by Melania Trump is revenge porn. You're not allowed to take
259:08 revenge porn. You're not allowed to take a picture that is stolen from somebody's
259:10 a picture that is stolen from somebody's digital material of them in and in and
259:14 digital material of them in and in and uh naked and um uh with with a with
259:17 uh naked and um uh with with a with another person and publish it.
259:22 another person and publish it. I mean, you're not allowed to do that.
259:23 I mean, you're not allowed to do that. It's a crime.
259:25 It's a crime. But in my in my instance and so that's
259:28 But in my in my instance and so that's what the New York Post story ran and the
259:30 what the New York Post story ran and the initial story and it had naked pictures
259:33 initial story and it had naked pictures of me in there and under the terms of
259:35 of me in there and under the terms of Twitter they took it down when I
259:37 Twitter they took it down when I objected to it. So you got to take that
259:39 objected to it. So you got to take that down.
259:42 down. And so they took it down and then that
259:44 And so they took it down and then that became the the the hobby horse for
259:47 became the the the hobby horse for everybody is that it was a it was it was
259:49 everybody is that it was a it was it was an issue of free speech and how the deep
259:52 an issue of free speech and how the deep state um uh you know buried the story.
259:56 state um uh you know buried the story. What story? that I was a drug addict and
260:00 What story? that I was a drug addict and that I was in rooms in which people took
260:01 that I was in rooms in which people took pictures of me and I took pictures of
260:03 pictures of me and I took pictures of myself
260:11 because otherwise I've sat across from uh from from
260:14 I've sat across from uh from from journalists. I've shot across from
260:17 journalists. I've shot across from detractors
260:19 detractors and I don't know of anybody that's kind
260:21 and I don't know of anybody that's kind of at least more informed than you are
260:24 of at least more informed than you are in terms of the the number of people
260:26 in terms of the the number of people that have come through uh this studio
260:29 that have come through uh this studio that have had an opinion about it and I
260:32 that have had an opinion about it and I know that you prepare and you have a
260:33 know that you prepare and you have a team that prepares. Has anyone of your
260:36 team that prepares. Has anyone of your team ever been able to tell you of any
260:39 team ever been able to tell you of any crime other than crimes of uh of as it
260:43 crime other than crimes of uh of as it relates to illicit drug use that is on a
260:46 relates to illicit drug use that is on a laptop? [snorts] And I mean wouldn't you
260:48 laptop? [snorts] And I mean wouldn't you have if there were wouldn't you come and
260:50 have if there were wouldn't you come and by the way obviously like it's all there
260:53 by the way obviously like it's all there Sean like there's nothing more to show.
260:57 Sean like there's nothing more to show. So there's not a single instance of a
260:59 So there's not a single instance of a crime and I told you is that I got
261:01 crime and I told you is that I got investigated by crim tax and main
261:03 investigated by crim tax and main justice. I got to a six years of
261:06 justice. I got to a six years of investigation of the US attorney in the
261:08 investigation of the US attorney in the state of Delaware, in the state of uh in
261:09 state of Delaware, in the state of uh in the uh in Pittsburgh, in Baltimore, in
261:12 the uh in Pittsburgh, in Baltimore, in the Baltimore field office, in the
261:14 the Baltimore field office, in the Philadelphia field office, the US
261:15 Philadelphia field office, the US attorney in Los Angeles, the House Ways
261:18 attorney in Los Angeles, the House Ways and Means Committee, the House Judiciary
261:20 and Means Committee, the House Judiciary Committee, um the House uh uh oversight
261:24 Committee, um the House uh uh oversight committee, the Senate Judiciary
261:25 committee, the Senate Judiciary Committee, Oversight Committee, all of
261:28 Committee, Oversight Committee, all of every one of them, and probably a number
261:30 every one of them, and probably a number of of of foreign um uh operative uh you
261:33 of of of foreign um uh operative uh you foreign uh intelligence agencies.
261:36 foreign uh intelligence agencies. Not a single criminal act has been even
261:41 Not a single criminal act has been even even accused of me that that is based on
261:46 even accused of me that that is based on evidence from the laptop.
261:50 evidence from the laptop. So the the the irony is is that the
261:55 So the the the irony is is that the thing that they hang around my neck as
261:58 thing that they hang around my neck as being this, you know, uh this great sin,
262:00 being this, you know, uh this great sin, the laptop, is in actuality
262:04 the laptop, is in actuality evidence of the absolute [ __ ] of
262:07 evidence of the absolute [ __ ] of their accusations.
262:08 their accusations. >> Wow.
262:09 >> Wow. >> So they say that I was engaged in some
262:12 >> So they say that I was engaged in some type of bribery
262:14 type of bribery in Ukraine. Now, the person that that
262:16 in Ukraine. Now, the person that that that stated that to an FBI agent in an
262:20 that stated that to an FBI agent in an FD1023,
262:22 FD1023, a uh a confidential informant
262:26 a uh a confidential informant statement,
262:29 statement, was then arrested
262:32 was then arrested by
262:33 by the same special prosecutor that was
262:36 the same special prosecutor that was prosecuting me because they blew up my
262:40 prosecuting me because they blew up my plea deal because you had Congress come
262:43 plea deal because you had Congress come to them, come to the attorney and say,
262:45 to them, come to the attorney and say, "This is [ __ ] We know that he was
262:47 "This is [ __ ] We know that he was engaged in in bribery because we have an
262:49 engaged in in bribery because we have an FD1023, a private confidential uh thing,
262:53 FD1023, a private confidential uh thing, a a an informant that claims that he was
262:57 a a an informant that claims that he was engaged in bribery
262:59 engaged in bribery and has evidence of it. So they they
263:02 and has evidence of it. So they they blow up my my plea deal, okay, because
263:05 blow up my my plea deal, okay, because of that. And they pretend like it well,
263:07 of that. And they pretend like it well, it was because some confusion as it
263:09 it was because some confusion as it relates to, you know, I had immunity."
263:12 relates to, you know, I had immunity." Everybody gets immunity when they do a
263:13 Everybody gets immunity when they do a plea deal. Why would you enter a plea
263:14 plea deal. Why would you enter a plea deal if you didn't get immunity from the
263:16 deal if you didn't get immunity from the federal government that they weren't
263:17 federal government that they weren't going to come back and, you know, charge
263:19 going to come back and, you know, charge you with something else? And so
263:22 you with something else? And so they blow up the plea deal and they
263:25 they blow up the plea deal and they bring this guy in, the informant, uh,
263:28 bring this guy in, the informant, uh, um, uh, Smirnoff.
263:30 um, uh, Smirnoff. They bring him in and they say, "Okay,
263:33 They bring him in and they say, "Okay, tell us about this bribery.
263:35 tell us about this bribery. tell us about this FD1023 that you have
263:38 tell us about this FD1023 that you have uh members of Congress out there waving
263:41 uh members of Congress out there waving around as evidence of Joe Biden's
263:43 around as evidence of Joe Biden's corruption. And he basically breaks down
263:47 corruption. And he basically breaks down and says like it's all [ __ ] He was
263:50 and says like it's all [ __ ] He was encouraged to do so by others. He was
263:52 encouraged to do so by others. He was encouraged to do so by people in
263:54 encouraged to do so by people in intelligence in um Russian intelligence.
263:58 intelligence in um Russian intelligence. That's the story. go read the story
263:59 That's the story. go read the story about uh Smirnoff who's sitting in jail
264:02 about uh Smirnoff who's sitting in jail >> serving a sentence for lying on FD1023.
264:07 >> serving a sentence for lying on FD1023. Well, now that that story blows up, what
264:09 Well, now that that story blows up, what do they do?
264:11 do they do? 3 days before the statute of limitation
264:13 3 days before the statute of limitation runs on these charges, they charge me
264:15 runs on these charges, they charge me with the with the things that they had
264:16 with the with the things that they had just come to a plea with me on.
264:26 Anyway, man, the laptop once again, you know, there
264:31 the laptop once again, you know, there are people out there that have just
264:33 are people out there that have just dined out on this, you know, the laptop
264:36 dined out on this, you know, the laptop and it become a kind of buzzword for,
264:39 and it become a kind of buzzword for, you know, uh uh corruption of some kind
264:43 you know, uh uh corruption of some kind of like uh you know, epic uh you know,
264:47 of like uh you know, epic uh you know, uh uh road mapap to the to the Biden
264:50 uh uh road mapap to the to the Biden crime family.
264:53 crime family. Tell me, other than me being a a
264:57 Tell me, other than me being a a evidence of me being a crack addict,
265:00 evidence of me being a crack addict, what the laptop
265:02 what the laptop tells you
265:04 tells you because not a single person
265:08 because not a single person that is at less from a good place like
265:10 that is at less from a good place like you say, well, you know, 10% from the
265:12 you say, well, you know, 10% from the big guys. Somebody sent me an email
265:14 big guys. Somebody sent me an email about a deal when my dad was not vice
265:16 about a deal when my dad was not vice president of the United States and when
265:18 president of the United States and when he was not president of the United
265:20 he was not president of the United States in which they proposed
265:22 States in which they proposed if that's what they meant that my dad uh
265:25 if that's what they meant that my dad uh the big guy would uh get 10% of the deal
265:28 the big guy would uh get 10% of the deal of which I never entered into the deal
265:30 of which I never entered into the deal with them and never did a deal with
265:32 with them and never did a deal with them.
265:35 them. It's funny how those details don't make
265:37 It's funny how those details don't make it in.
265:39 it in. [clears throat]
265:39 [clears throat] >> And so,
265:41 >> And so, you know, all of this [ __ ] well
265:44 you know, all of this [ __ ] well about like for instance, like, you know,
265:46 about like for instance, like, you know, 35 former, you know, that they they harp
265:48 35 former, you know, that they they harp on all the time. And then it became
265:50 on all the time. And then it became about free speech. Well, then it became
265:52 about free speech. Well, then it became about about the big cover up of the
265:53 about about the big cover up of the story, you know, remember that? and they
265:56 story, you know, remember that? and they had hearings on it and they, you know,
265:57 had hearings on it and they, you know, they uh after um uh Elon bought uh
266:02 they uh after um uh Elon bought uh Twitter and turned it into X and they
266:03 Twitter and turned it into X and they had that Matt whatever that reporter's
266:06 had that Matt whatever that reporter's name come on he said you know lamented
266:08 name come on he said you know lamented the fact that you know the story was
266:10 the fact that you know the story was taken down and the reason it was taken
266:12 taken down and the reason it was taken down is because the deep state and CIA
266:15 down is because the deep state and CIA and you know the remember remember when
266:18 and you know the remember remember when the story was taken down
266:20 the story was taken down in the Trump administration
266:26 my dad wasn't president. When the story was taken down, he wasn't vice
266:28 was taken down, he wasn't vice president. When the story was taken
266:29 president. When the story was taken down, Trump controlled all levers of
266:33 down, Trump controlled all levers of government.
266:35 government. Twitter took down the story because it
266:37 Twitter took down the story because it violated their own revenge porn laws
266:40 violated their own revenge porn laws because it was publishing pictures of me
266:43 because it was publishing pictures of me naked with other people
266:47 naked with other people having consensual sex but without my
266:50 having consensual sex but without my consent which is an absolute and
266:52 consent which is an absolute and complete violation of any of the rules
266:54 complete violation of any of the rules of Twitter or even the ex as it stands
266:57 of Twitter or even the ex as it stands now. That's why they took it down.
267:01 now. That's why they took it down. And let me ask you that is anybody
267:03 And let me ask you that is anybody that's listening to this. If somebody
267:05 that's listening to this. If somebody stole your phone for whatever reason and
267:08 stole your phone for whatever reason and decided that they wanted to accuse you
267:09 decided that they wanted to accuse you of other things, but the way they were
267:11 of other things, but the way they were going to do is they were going to show
267:12 going to do is they were going to show you and your wife having sex
267:15 you and your wife having sex naked in their bedroom. Do you think
267:16 naked in their bedroom. Do you think they should be able to do that and put
267:18 they should be able to do that and put it up on X-ray now?
267:20 it up on X-ray now? >> No.
267:20 >> No. >> And in that accuse you of other things.
267:23 >> And in that accuse you of other things. say, uh, you know, Hunter Biden, uh,
267:27 say, uh, you know, Hunter Biden, uh, accused of bribery
267:29 accused of bribery without anything to back it up, but then
267:31 without anything to back it up, but then show a picture of you in a motel room,
267:36 show a picture of you in a motel room, uh, uh, doing drugs naked
267:41 uh, uh, doing drugs naked with a woman.
267:43 with a woman. Does anybody have the right to do that?
267:45 Does anybody have the right to do that? Do you think that that that that X
267:48 Do you think that that that that X shouldn't have taken that down or that
267:49 shouldn't have taken that down or that that Twitter shouldn't have taken that
267:51 that Twitter shouldn't have taken that down? Because I'll tell you what it did
267:53 down? Because I'll tell you what it did is it Bannon's a genius because then
267:56 is it Bannon's a genius because then that became the story and that became
267:58 that became the story and that became the cover up and that became the thing
268:01 the cover up and that became the thing that was the the great injustice,
268:04 that was the the great injustice, you know, which led into the whole J6
268:06 you know, which led into the whole J6 thing and the stop the steel part of it.
268:08 thing and the stop the steel part of it. And if they had just let the story of
268:10 And if they had just let the story of Hunter Biden's laptop come out, they
268:12 Hunter Biden's laptop come out, they actually that that's where the how the
268:14 actually that that's where the how the election was stolen is that if the if
268:16 election was stolen is that if the if the if the corruption that the laptop
268:18 the if the corruption that the laptop proved well I I keep coming back to what
268:22 proved well I I keep coming back to what did it prove
268:28 and I keep coming back to like the idea I don't know of anybody that is more
268:29 I don't know of anybody that is more informed in terms of the people that
268:31 informed in terms of the people that they have spoken to than you. Has
268:34 they have spoken to than you. Has anybody been able to tell you what
268:35 anybody been able to tell you what Hunter Biden's laptop proves?
268:40 No, >> I know. And so here I am six years
268:43 >> I know. And so here I am six years later, Sean, and I'm still talking about
268:46 later, Sean, and I'm still talking about a [ __ ] laptop that actually it's not
268:48 a [ __ ] laptop that actually it's not even a laptop. It's an amalgamation and
268:51 even a laptop. It's an amalgamation and con of of concocted digital material
268:54 con of of concocted digital material that has been stolen from me over the
268:56 that has been stolen from me over the course of 22 years and some of it
268:59 course of 22 years and some of it fabricated. And all you got to do is
269:01 fabricated. And all you got to do is just add a little bit here and there. I
269:02 just add a little bit here and there. I mean, that's what GO did. And there's
269:04 mean, that's what GO did. And there's tapes of it. There's tapes of Gal
269:06 tapes of it. There's tapes of Gal talking to Bannon the night before the
269:09 talking to Bannon the night before the election in 2020 in which he's talking
269:12 election in 2020 in which he's talking about how they've taken the hard drive
269:14 about how they've taken the hard drive to New Zealand and they're manufacturing
269:17 to New Zealand and they're manufacturing pictures of me um with children in
269:21 pictures of me um with children in China.
269:22 China. >> Are you serious?
269:23 >> Are you serious? >> Yes. There's literal they could they I
269:25 >> Yes. There's literal they could they I mean you literally have gal I mean go to
269:27 mean you literally have gal I mean go to the mother
269:28 the mother >> access to that.
269:28 >> access to that. >> Yeah. Go to the mother Jones. It's all
269:30 >> Yeah. Go to the mother Jones. It's all in reported but nobody listens. I mean,
269:32 in reported but nobody listens. I mean, literally, there are tapes of Bannon Gal
269:36 literally, there are tapes of Bannon Gal and others sitting around talking about
269:38 and others sitting around talking about how they've stolen the laptop, how
269:41 how they've stolen the laptop, how they've stolen the hard drive, and how
269:42 they've stolen the hard drive, and how they're manufacturing images because
269:44 they're manufacturing images because they can do any they can you can say
269:46 they can do any they can you can say whatever you want at this point. Go
269:48 whatever you want at this point. Go listen to the tapes. They're literal
269:50 listen to the tapes. They're literal tapes.
269:50 tapes. >> He was very close to winning outright
269:53 >> He was very close to winning outright then and shutting down Trump. That the
269:56 then and shutting down Trump. That the hard drive from hell stopped his
269:58 hard drive from hell stopped his momentum.
270:07 Then the other thing is the way we blunted the way we drove up Biden's
270:09 blunted the way we drove up Biden's negatives. The only thing that stopped
270:11 negatives. The only thing that stopped momentum was the hard drive from hell.
270:14 momentum was the hard drive from hell. Right. And and two parts of that were
270:16 Right. And and two parts of that were were Luda's where Luda's editorial uh uh
270:19 were Luda's where Luda's editorial uh uh uh uh creativity
270:21 uh uh creativity over the pictures [laughter] and and the
270:24 over the pictures [laughter] and and the and and really the CCP involvement.
270:26 and and really the CCP involvement. That's what shocked the American people.
270:28 That's what shocked the American people. Sleepy Joe. He never drove up Biden's
270:30 Sleepy Joe. He never drove up Biden's negatives. It was only when we got the
270:32 negatives. It was only when we got the hard drive and got it to you that in the
270:33 hard drive and got it to you that in the post.
270:34 post. >> Yeah.
270:34 >> Yeah. >> If you if you look here's what here's
270:36 >> If you if you look here's what here's where the Biden's [ __ ] up from the day
270:39 where the Biden's [ __ ] up from the day the post story came out and then you
270:41 the post story came out and then you started pumping out. We got you the
270:42 started pumping out. We got you the stuff and you started just dumping it
270:44 stuff and you started just dumping it out and then the internet started
270:45 out and then the internet started picking up and they suppressed it.
270:47 picking up and they suppressed it. Remember the best thing that happened to
270:48 Remember the best thing that happened to us was Twitter and Facebook suppressing
270:51 us was Twitter and Facebook suppressing it because then everybody wants to see
270:53 it because then everybody wants to see it. Remember you we hammered this guy
270:56 it. Remember you we hammered this guy every day for 10 days with the worst
270:58 every day for 10 days with the worst pictures in the world. Drug addict
271:01 pictures in the world. Drug addict taking money from CCP, from Chinese
271:02 taking money from CCP, from Chinese spies. No response, nothing. And and the
271:06 spies. No response, nothing. And and the and the negatives just keep going up
271:08 and the negatives just keep going up because people are sitting there going,
271:10 because people are sitting there going, I didn't know that about Joe Biden. But
271:11 I didn't know that about Joe Biden. But Joe Biden, nobody, not one person came
271:13 Joe Biden, nobody, not one person came out and said those pictures are not
271:16 out and said those pictures are not true. Right? Nobody came out and said
271:18 true. Right? Nobody came out and said anything you're saying is not true. Even
271:19 anything you're saying is not true. Even the wildest allegations when Trump got
271:22 the wildest allegations when Trump got co
271:23 co And when Trump had that first debate,
271:25 And when Trump had that first debate, within that that oneweek period, Biden
271:28 within that that oneweek period, Biden Biden could have put him away. The
271:29 Biden could have put him away. The campaign would have been over. Biden
271:31 campaign would have been over. Biden would have won with 500 electoral votes,
271:34 would have won with 500 electoral votes, but they didn't do it. And we're able to
271:35 but they didn't do it. And we're able to stop. So now, I'm not saying Trump's
271:37 stop. So now, I'm not saying Trump's going to win, but we have a fighting
271:38 going to win, but we have a fighting chance.
271:39 chance. >> These are legit.
271:40 >> These are legit. >> Oh, 100% legit.
271:43 >> Oh, 100% legit. 100%.
271:44 100%. >> I mean, I would believe Mother Jones,
271:46 >> I mean, I would believe Mother Jones, but they wrote a hit piece on me. That's
271:48 but they wrote a hit piece on me. That's complete [ __ ] So, [laughter] well,
271:50 complete [ __ ] So, [laughter] well, by the way, by the way, the tapes exist,
271:53 by the way, by the way, the tapes exist, and I I I I will I will send you the the
271:56 and I I I I will I will send you the the link to the to the to the Mother Jones
271:58 link to the to the to the Mother Jones article with the physical tapes that
271:59 article with the physical tapes that have never no one's ever denied actually
272:01 have never no one's ever denied actually exist.
272:03 exist. Oh, by the way, with Bannon's partner,
272:07 Oh, by the way, with Bannon's partner, >> Miles Quack Guac, who who by the way is,
272:10 >> Miles Quack Guac, who who by the way is, you know, um in in prison for the next,
272:13 you know, um in in prison for the next, you know, 45 years from stealing over $1
272:16 you know, 45 years from stealing over $1 like8 billion dollars from uh uh from uh
272:19 like8 billion dollars from uh uh from uh Chinese uh dissident.
272:22 Chinese uh dissident. >> Do you know why the
272:23 >> Do you know why the >> He's the one that lit his fight his his
272:24 >> He's the one that lit his fight his his his apartment on fire when the FBI
272:27 his apartment on fire when the FBI raided it in the Sherry Netherland or on
272:29 raided it in the Sherry Netherland or on Park Avenue.
272:31 Park Avenue. >> Wait, what? Yeah, they raided his they
272:33 >> Wait, what? Yeah, they raided his they they they raided his apartment. He had
272:35 they they raided his apartment. He had the penthouse as this Sherry Netherlands
272:36 the penthouse as this Sherry Netherlands or you know that one right on Park
272:38 or you know that one right on Park Avenue and the FBI came in and all of
272:41 Avenue and the FBI came in and all of the um all the hard drives went up in
272:43 the um all the hard drives went up in flames and uh and and burned the whole
272:46 flames and uh and and burned the whole um penthouse apartment on Park Avenue.
272:54 By the way, Steve Bannon's partner, who at the same time, at that exact same
272:56 at the same time, at that exact same time, Steve Bannon is sitting with
272:59 time, Steve Bannon is sitting with Jeffrey Epstein, coaching him about how
273:02 Jeffrey Epstein, coaching him about how he can uh, you know, fool the American
273:04 he can uh, you know, fool the American people into the fact that he's not
273:06 people into the fact that he's not really a [ __ ] pedophile.
273:08 really a [ __ ] pedophile. That's Steve Bannon
273:11 That's Steve Bannon who concocted this whole thing, who put
273:14 who concocted this whole thing, who put this whole thing together
273:18 this whole thing together and handed parts of it off to Rudy
273:20 and handed parts of it off to Rudy Giuliani.
273:25 I mean, it's all there. Talk to Noel Dumpy, his assistant. Talk to talk to Le
273:28 Dumpy, his assistant. Talk to talk to Le Parnes. I mean, Le Parnes says the
273:30 Parnes. I mean, Le Parnes says the entire Russia thing, the entire thing
273:32 entire Russia thing, the entire thing about Ukraine and bribery and the
273:34 about Ukraine and bribery and the corruption of the Biden family. He was
273:35 corruption of the Biden family. He was the guy that that
273:38 the guy that that uh Giuliani literally deputized that
273:41 uh Giuliani literally deputized that Trump literally deputized to go to
273:43 Trump literally deputized to go to Ukraine and dig up dirt on me. Talk to
273:46 Ukraine and dig up dirt on me. Talk to Le partis
273:48 Le partis says it's all [ __ ] We made it all
273:50 says it's all [ __ ] We made it all up. Then we sat there with John Solomon
273:55 up. Then we sat there with John Solomon and uh and uh uh Ken Vogle of the New
273:59 and uh and uh uh Ken Vogle of the New York Times and and and uh Rudy
274:04 York Times and and and uh Rudy and um uh uh what's his name? I'm going
274:07 and um uh uh what's his name? I'm going to get names wrong and I'm going to get
274:08 to get names wrong and I'm going to get sued. But the my my my point is it's all
274:11 sued. But the my my my point is it's all there. I'm not making any of this [ __ ]
274:13 there. I'm not making any of this [ __ ] up. Bob Costello.
274:17 up. Bob Costello. They literally went to Ukraine and took
274:21 They literally went to Ukraine and took a dossier and filmed it with O from a
274:25 a dossier and filmed it with O from a guy named Durkatch, okay? Who was a
274:29 guy named Durkatch, okay? Who was a known Russian GRU agent and I swear to
274:32 known Russian GRU agent and I swear to God I'm not making any of this even
274:33 God I'm not making any of this even remotely up who's wanted for treason who
274:37 remotely up who's wanted for treason who who fled to Russia and now serves in the
274:39 who fled to Russia and now serves in the Duma in Russia as a Russian senator.
274:44 Duma in Russia as a Russian senator. He's the one that came up with the
274:46 He's the one that came up with the [ __ ] bribery thing.
274:49 [ __ ] bribery thing. >> Are you [ __ ] kidding?
274:50 >> Are you [ __ ] kidding? >> No, it's a And by the way, and this is
274:52 >> No, it's a And by the way, and this is the thing that drives me insane. You can
274:55 the thing that drives me insane. You can It's Rou Giuliani with an OAN film crew
274:58 It's Rou Giuliani with an OAN film crew with Durkatch who is literally has been
275:01 with Durkatch who is literally has been tried in abstentia in convicted of
275:04 tried in abstentia in convicted of treason inside of Ukraine who has fled
275:07 treason inside of Ukraine who has fled Russia and has made it clear that he is
275:10 Russia and has made it clear that he is a Russian agent. He was sanctioned and
275:13 a Russian agent. He was sanctioned and um u and and convicted in such a um or
275:16 um u and and convicted in such a um or charged in the United States for being a
275:18 charged in the United States for being a GRU agent. That's where Giuliani was
275:21 GRU agent. That's where Giuliani was getting all of his information. He's the
275:23 getting all of his information. He's the one that told them that Dmitri Fertach
275:26 one that told them that Dmitri Fertach wanted to sell Hunter Biden's laptop 5
275:29 wanted to sell Hunter Biden's laptop 5 months before um uh uh 5 months before
275:33 months before um uh uh 5 months before this, you know, uh uh what's his name
275:36 this, you know, uh uh what's his name ever existed, the laptop repair shop
275:38 ever existed, the laptop repair shop guy.
275:41 guy. Wow.
275:43 Wow. >> And I'm I I I'm
275:46 >> And I'm I I I'm 100%
275:48 100% give you each one of these things. I can
275:50 give you each one of these things. I can give you the tapes of the Mother Jones
275:52 give you the tapes of the Mother Jones of the conversation between Bannon Ga
275:54 of the conversation between Bannon Ga and the and the four or five other
275:55 and the and the four or five other people that were in his apartment the
275:56 people that were in his apartment the night before. That's when Bannon says
275:59 night before. That's when Bannon says that you know what we're going to do
276:01 that you know what we're going to do when he loses the election. We're just
276:02 when he loses the election. We're just going to say it's stolen.
276:09 That's what we're going to do. He lays out the entire um uh uh uh stop the
276:12 out the entire um uh uh uh stop the steel effort.
276:14 steel effort. >> This shit's 100% real. It's
276:16 >> This shit's 100% real. It's >> 100% real.
276:17 >> 100% real. >> It's not that 11 Labs that
276:19 >> It's not that 11 Labs that or any of that [ __ ]
276:20 or any of that [ __ ] >> 100% real.
276:27 100% real. And so all of this stuff exists, but you
276:29 And so all of this stuff exists, but you know what? Nobody gives a [ __ ] about me
276:31 know what? Nobody gives a [ __ ] about me in the in the aftermath of what happened
276:33 in the in the aftermath of what happened with J6. Nobody gives a [ __ ] about a
276:36 with J6. Nobody gives a [ __ ] about a what they what they did in terms of what
276:38 what they what they did in terms of what I was talking about in terms of like the
276:39 I was talking about in terms of like the complete dehumanization of me. And so
276:42 complete dehumanization of me. And so then I became the pariah by everyone.
276:46 then I became the pariah by everyone. Nobody in the Democratic party stepped
276:47 Nobody in the Democratic party stepped up except for maybe a couple people
276:52 up except for maybe a couple people that um uh that that
276:55 that um uh that that like stood by me. You want to figure out
276:58 like stood by me. You want to figure out who's your friend?
277:00 who's your friend? Here's another gift that they gave me.
277:03 Here's another gift that they gave me. I know who's really my friend because if
277:07 I know who's really my friend because if you were willing to stand with me or
277:09 you were willing to stand with me or even be seen with me or be associated
277:12 even be seen with me or be associated with me with any way for a period of
277:14 with me with any way for a period of time,
277:16 time, there was nothing in it for you.
277:18 there was nothing in it for you. Absolutely zero nothing.
277:22 Absolutely zero nothing. The biggest regret that I have is I
277:24 The biggest regret that I have is I allowed them to think that I couldn't be
277:26 allowed them to think that I couldn't be around my dad
277:28 around my dad because of because I would rub off
277:31 because of because I would rub off because I would bring I I by by the way
277:33 because I would bring I I by by the way like for instance
277:36 like for instance like this [ __ ] the the you know the
277:38 like this [ __ ] the the you know the cocaine in the in the cubby hole in the
277:41 cocaine in the in the cubby hole in the in the West Wing
277:44 in the West Wing like I we were talking about it before
277:46 like I we were talking about it before like on what [ __ ] planet
277:50 like on what [ __ ] planet am I walking in off of West Exec Avenue
277:54 am I walking in off of West Exec Avenue with my own Secret Service uh uh detail,
278:00 with my own Secret Service uh uh detail, stopping by the cubby
278:03 stopping by the cubby in the situation for that before you go
278:06 in the situation for that before you go into the situation room and deciding
278:08 into the situation room and deciding that I'm going to put a a a baggie of
278:11 that I'm going to put a a a baggie of cocaine into the cubby hole before I
278:14 cocaine into the cubby hole before I make it on my way to um uh to the
278:17 make it on my way to um uh to the residence.
278:19 residence. In what world? In what world does that
278:21 In what world? In what world does that make even the even the most insane drug
278:25 make even the even the most insane drug addict like sense of anything? But you
278:28 addict like sense of anything? But you [snorts] know how many people [ __ ]
278:29 [snorts] know how many people [ __ ] believe that? You've had guests on here
278:31 believe that? You've had guests on here who come and accuse me of actually that
278:33 who come and accuse me of actually that of that being mine. But that could be I
278:35 of that being mine. But that could be I wasn't even there. You know how much
278:38 wasn't even there. You know how much time I spent in the White House over the
278:40 time I spent in the White House over the course of uh of the four years? I'd say
278:44 course of uh of the four years? I'd say no more than maybe eight to 10 days a
278:48 no more than maybe eight to 10 days a year the entire time that my dad was in
278:51 year the entire time that my dad was in office. And this is a this is a family
278:53 office. And this is a this is a family that does everything together.
278:57 that does everything together. You know how hard that was for me not to
278:59 You know how hard that was for me not to be there just to be there for him?
279:04 be there just to be there for him? like he didn't have my brother and then
279:06 like he didn't have my brother and then he and then basically virtually lost me
279:09 he and then basically virtually lost me because I allowed people to to you know
279:12 because I allowed people to to you know I mean people around him that I'll never
279:15 I mean people around him that I'll never forgive
279:16 forgive for not pushing back
279:24 and then you start to think well you're the drug addict Hunter you're the one
279:27 the drug addict Hunter you're the one you're the one that put yourself in
279:29 you're the one that put yourself in those rooms you're the one that um uh
279:32 those rooms you're the one that um uh allowed those pictures to be taken or
279:34 allowed those pictures to be taken or took.
279:36 took. You're the one that um you know that uh
279:40 You're the one that um you know that uh allowed your stuff to be stolen or lost.
279:44 allowed your stuff to be stolen or lost. You're the one that um embarrassed the
279:46 You're the one that um embarrassed the family,
279:49 family, you know, so best just to stay away.
279:52 you know, so best just to stay away. [ __ ] that, man. You know, I figured out
279:55 [ __ ] that, man. You know, I figured out that, you know, a while back
279:58 that, you know, a while back is that that was exactly what they they
280:02 is that that was exactly what they they uh uh
280:08 what they wanted is for me is for me to to fail, is for
280:11 is for me is for me to to fail, is for me to relapse.
280:14 me to relapse. I truly believe that what they really
280:16 I truly believe that what they really wanted to happen is they wanted to make
280:17 wanted to happen is they wanted to make it impossible for my dad to emotionally
280:20 it impossible for my dad to emotionally even uh remotely um uh mount a campaign
280:24 even uh remotely um uh mount a campaign or to um uh or to govern
280:28 or to um uh or to govern knowing that there's only one thing that
280:30 knowing that there's only one thing that he cares more about than this country
280:32 he cares more about than this country and uh as I think everybody should is
280:34 and uh as I think everybody should is their is their family
280:37 their is their family is his family and and I refused I
280:42 is his family and and I refused I refused to allow them to do that.
280:50 And I knew there was one way, fastest way to fail
280:53 way to fail is to not figure out how to be clean and
280:55 is to not figure out how to be clean and sober
280:57 sober for good.
281:08 But I tell you what, they're good at it.
281:11 they're good at it. And I sit here and I talk about like the
281:14 And I sit here and I talk about like the laptop or I was on the board of a of a
281:17 laptop or I was on the board of a of a company Bisma. You see what they're
281:19 company Bisma. You see what they're doing, man?
281:21 doing, man? I don't care what you think about
281:23 I don't care what you think about anything. I don't know how you can look
281:25 anything. I don't know how you can look at what they're doing and the way in
281:26 at what they're doing and the way in which they are profiting off the
281:27 which they are profiting off the presidency directly profiting and
281:30 presidency directly profiting and directly. Don Jr.
281:32 directly. Don Jr. opened up a club in Georgetown called
281:36 opened up a club in Georgetown called the executive club and he's charging
281:38 the executive club and he's charging people an eight a $500,000 initiation
281:41 people an eight a $500,000 initiation fee to join the club with the stated
281:44 fee to join the club with the stated purpose of the club being it is the
281:47 purpose of the club being it is the place where you can come and rub
281:48 place where you can come and rub shoulders with the decision makers in
281:50 shoulders with the decision makers in his father's administration half a
281:52 his father's administration half a million dollars the second most
281:53 million dollars the second most expensive club in the country
281:55 expensive club in the country >> are you serious
281:56 >> are you serious >> and ponder serious half a million
281:59 >> and ponder serious half a million dollars to join so They opened a club.
282:02 dollars to join so They opened a club. >> They opened a club. And on opening night
282:04 >> They opened a club. And on opening night of the club, they had half the cabinet
282:06 of the club, they had half the cabinet there
282:08 there of the club. A half a million dollar
282:10 of the club. A half a million dollar initiation fee for a private club run
282:12 initiation fee for a private club run and owned by Don Jr. called the
282:14 and owned by Don Jr. called the executive club.
282:16 executive club. And they state the purpose. It's the
282:20 And they state the purpose. It's the place to go to be able to be with the
282:22 place to go to be able to be with the people that are the greatest influence
282:24 people that are the greatest influence within the administration, cabinet
282:26 within the administration, cabinet members.
282:27 members. He has a private equity company, a
282:30 He has a private equity company, a private Don Jr. has a private equity
282:32 private Don Jr. has a private equity company. It's just in the New York P New
282:33 company. It's just in the New York P New York Times and in the Washington Post
282:35 York Times and in the Washington Post and in the Wall Street Journal and in
282:36 and in the Wall Street Journal and in every newspaper on page 14 of which his
282:40 every newspaper on page 14 of which his private equity company has a majority I
282:42 private equity company has a majority I think majority stake in a um in a
282:45 think majority stake in a um in a startup drone company that's never
282:47 startup drone company that's never produced a drone has uh 13 or 30
282:49 produced a drone has uh 13 or 30 employees. I don't know. They got the
282:51 employees. I don't know. They got the largest
282:53 largest uh uh loan guarantee of $695 million
282:56 uh uh loan guarantee of $695 million that the Pentagon has ever issued. And
282:58 that the Pentagon has ever issued. And that's just one of the companies in
283:00 that's just one of the companies in which he has uh his private equity firm
283:02 which he has uh his private equity firm has invested that has contracts with the
283:04 has invested that has contracts with the Pentagon. Just one.
283:10 You want to talk about they talk about me doing foreign business?
283:13 me doing foreign business? What [ __ ] foreign business are you
283:14 What [ __ ] foreign business are you talking about?
283:17 talking about? I had a partner who was Chinese was part
283:19 I had a partner who was Chinese was part of a private equity company and we were
283:21 of a private equity company and we were going to invest in natural gas in the
283:23 going to invest in natural gas in the United States in in an industry that I
283:25 United States in in an industry that I knew of and it fell apart and it didn't
283:27 knew of and it fell apart and it didn't happen. And I worked for on the board of
283:31 happen. And I worked for on the board of a Ukrainian gas company and as a lawyer
283:33 a Ukrainian gas company and as a lawyer I represented a guy that was from uh um
283:36 I represented a guy that was from uh um Romania for a three-month period of
283:38 Romania for a three-month period of time. There's my foreign business. I
283:41 time. There's my foreign business. I never had any business with any foreign
283:43 never had any business with any foreign government ever. ever.
283:46 government ever. ever. They're building towers in Saudi Arabia.
283:48 They're building towers in Saudi Arabia. They're building towers in the UAE.
283:50 They're building towers in the UAE. They're building a they're they're doing
283:53 They're building a they're they're doing uh uh uh spas and golf courses and um
283:57 uh uh uh spas and golf courses and um and uh residential properties in uh in
284:00 and uh residential properties in uh in Qatar. They're doing uh they're building
284:03 Qatar. They're doing uh they're building on government property that they bought
284:05 on government property that they bought through Jared Kushner's [ __ ] private
284:07 through Jared Kushner's [ __ ] private equity fund, a um a a government-owned
284:10 equity fund, a um a a government-owned island um in Albania, I think it is. and
284:14 island um in Albania, I think it is. and they're doing a one of the last public
284:16 they're doing a one of the last public spaces in uh in Serbia, a deal directly
284:19 spaces in uh in Serbia, a deal directly with the government. And that's just the
284:22 with the government. And that's just the tip of the [ __ ] iceberg.
284:23 tip of the [ __ ] iceberg. >> Well, don't forget about Gaza.
284:26 >> Well, don't forget about Gaza. And Jared Kushner
284:29 And Jared Kushner is basically, not basically, has flat
284:32 is basically, not basically, has flat out stated that Gaza is all about a real
284:36 out stated that Gaza is all about a real estate play
284:43 in which it is the best beachfront property in the Mediterranean.
284:46 property in the Mediterranean. And they're going to redevelop Gaza. And
284:48 And they're going to redevelop Gaza. And where are they going to get the money to
284:49 where are they going to get the money to do it? They're going to get the money
284:51 do it? They're going to get the money from the Saudi royal royal family.
284:53 from the Saudi royal royal family. They're going to get it from the
284:54 They're going to get it from the Emiratis. They're going to get it from
284:55 Emiratis. They're going to get it from the Qataris. They're going to get it
284:57 the Qataris. They're going to get it from the Russians. They're going to get
284:58 from the Russians. They're going to get it from the oligarchs, from Blovatnik,
285:01 it from the oligarchs, from Blovatnik, from all of these guys. from Dimmitri
285:03 from all of these guys. from Dimmitri Fertash who has been wanted for
285:05 Fertash who has been wanted for extradition in Australia and the United
285:07 extradition in Australia and the United States for the past 10 years and all of
285:09 States for the past 10 years and all of a sudden he's off the extradition list
285:12 a sudden he's off the extradition list but by the way he's doing a deal with
285:14 but by the way he's doing a deal with NAFTA Gas and um and the Saudis and uh
285:17 NAFTA Gas and um and the Saudis and uh and Don um as it relates to um um uh the
285:23 and Don um as it relates to um um uh the the pipeline
285:31 as Jared Kushner and what's his name? Wickoff who has zero experience.
285:33 Wickoff who has zero experience. Everybody says that I don't have
285:34 Everybody says that I don't have experience. I was a [ __ ] adject
285:37 experience. I was a [ __ ] adject professor at Georgetown University
285:39 professor at Georgetown University School of Foreign [ __ ] Service. I'd
285:40 School of Foreign [ __ ] Service. I'd served on like I don't know 19 different
285:42 served on like I don't know 19 different boards. I was the chairman of the board
285:44 boards. I was the chairman of the board of the largest humanitar the the largest
285:46 of the largest humanitar the the largest support group for the largest
285:48 support group for the largest humanitarian organization in the world.
285:50 humanitarian organization in the world. I had traveled the world. I had been to
285:52 I had traveled the world. I had been to every [ __ ] all the places that you
285:54 every [ __ ] all the places that you were jumping from. I've been not with a
285:56 were jumping from. I've been not with a gun,
285:58 gun, but there in the refugee camps
286:02 but there in the refugee camps and everywhere else. And they said that
286:06 and everywhere else. And they said that I didn't have experience as a Yale
286:07 I didn't have experience as a Yale [ __ ] educated lawyer.
286:10 [ __ ] educated lawyer. What experience does Don Jr. have in
286:16 What experience does Don Jr. have in anything other than being handed a check
286:19 anything other than being handed a check in an office by his dad? Name one.
286:24 in an office by his dad? Name one. Jared Kushner
286:26 Jared Kushner had the biggest real estate
286:30 had the biggest real estate failure of in the history of real estate
286:33 failure of in the history of real estate in New York. And when he bought the 666
286:35 in New York. And when he bought the 666 building
286:38 building on Fifth Avenue,
286:40 on Fifth Avenue, it had to be bailed out by the Qataris
286:50 when Trump was president. And we're wondering like whether Hunter
286:53 And we're wondering like whether Hunter Biden.
287:00 I don't get it, man. I really don't.
287:04 I really don't. And I sit here and I think like, well,
287:06 And I sit here and I think like, well, shouldn't that make you [ __ ] mad?
287:09 shouldn't that make you [ __ ] mad? Shouldn't that make everybody mad?
287:10 Shouldn't that make everybody mad? Forget about me. Forget about whether
287:12 Forget about me. Forget about whether you think I'm a [ __ ] uh, you know,
287:14 you think I'm a [ __ ] uh, you know, crook or whatever. Whatever you want to
287:15 crook or whatever. Whatever you want to believe.
287:17 believe. They're doing it right in front of her
287:19 They're doing it right in front of her face. I mean, the New Yorker, you know,
287:21 face. I mean, the New Yorker, you know, assessment of how much money that
287:23 assessment of how much money that they've made over the in in the in the
287:25 they've made over the in in the in the first 10 months is like what three $3.4
287:28 first 10 months is like what three $3.4 billion that they got identify and the
287:32 billion that they got identify and the and the increase in the wealth of the
287:33 and the increase in the wealth of the Trump family
287:35 Trump family in 9 months. And by the way, it's not
287:38 in 9 months. And by the way, it's not like we didn't that they're not like
287:40 like we didn't that they're not like directly telling us this. And I don't
287:42 directly telling us this. And I don't know understand like if okay so if I
287:45 know understand like if okay so if I give myself
287:47 give myself um or give the people
287:51 um or give the people that voted for him the widest latitude
287:54 that voted for him the widest latitude with the belief that like what you said
287:56 with the belief that like what you said is because they gave a [ __ ] about
287:57 is because they gave a [ __ ] about things. They gave about [ __ ] about the
287:59 things. They gave about [ __ ] about the prioritization of what's wrong in the
288:02 prioritization of what's wrong in the United States rather than what's wrong
288:04 United States rather than what's wrong overseas of us um uh of us taking care
288:07 overseas of us um uh of us taking care of vets instead of taking care of um uh
288:10 of vets instead of taking care of um uh illegal immigrants. of all of the [ __ ]
288:12 illegal immigrants. of all of the [ __ ] that you wanted me to give them the
288:13 that you wanted me to give them the latitude to believe that that's why they
288:15 latitude to believe that that's why they voted for Donald Trump. Shouldn't this
288:17 voted for Donald Trump. Shouldn't this make you really [ __ ] pissed off?
288:20 make you really [ __ ] pissed off? >> Hunter, I've been pissed off for a long
288:22 >> Hunter, I've been pissed off for a long [ __ ] time.
288:23 [ __ ] time. >> Yeah, I know. But but I mean, I'm not
288:24 >> Yeah, I know. But but I mean, I'm not just talking about you and I don't want
288:25 just talking about you and I don't want to get you in trouble, but I can I can
288:27 to get you in trouble, but I can I can like almost feel like the the resistance
288:30 like almost feel like the the resistance from your audience of of this message
288:32 from your audience of of this message coming from me. But let me give you this
288:34 coming from me. But let me give you this one. He's in the [ __ ] Epstein files,
288:36 one. He's in the [ __ ] Epstein files, man.
288:37 man. >> Yep.
288:38 >> Yep. >> And that's the reason that we're not
288:39 >> And that's the reason that we're not getting them. And it's like like what
288:41 getting them. And it's like like what are we even talking about?
288:43 are we even talking about? >> Yeah.
288:43 >> Yeah. >> Susie Wilds came out today in a Vanity
288:46 >> Susie Wilds came out today in a Vanity Fair article. Have you read that?
288:48 Fair article. Have you read that? >> No.
288:49 >> No. >> And says that he rem she his chief of
288:52 >> And says that he rem she his chief of staff said that he acts like an
288:55 staff said that he acts like an alcoholic and that of course he's in the
288:58 alcoholic and that of course he's in the Epstein files and that Pam Bondi
289:01 Epstein files and that Pam Bondi completely screwed this thing up
289:04 completely screwed this thing up and totally screwed them all. That's his
289:06 and totally screwed them all. That's his sitting chief of staff on the record in
289:08 sitting chief of staff on the record in Vanity Fair that came out today. And
289:11 Vanity Fair that came out today. And what are we supposed to be distracted
289:12 what are we supposed to be distracted by? We're supposed to be distracted by
289:14 by? We're supposed to be distracted by the absolute ugliness of someone taking
289:18 the absolute ugliness of someone taking the the barbaric murder of a beloved
289:22 the the barbaric murder of a beloved liberal. He's a beloved liberal, but he
289:24 liberal. He's a beloved liberal, but he made like the movies of my uh uh that
289:28 made like the movies of my uh uh that made my generation. A Few Good Men,
289:31 made my generation. A Few Good Men, Misery, Stand by Me, When Harry Met
289:34 Misery, Stand by Me, When Harry Met Sally, like my god. just as an artist
289:36 Sally, like my god. just as an artist alone. Like Jesus God, let's give the
289:38 alone. Like Jesus God, let's give the guy the the the the the uh the reverence
289:41 guy the the the the the uh the reverence that he's due for for for for for
289:45 that he's due for for for for for gifting humanity the princess bride as a
289:49 gifting humanity the princess bride as a movie.
289:51 movie. And he says that basically he was
289:55 And he says that basically he was murdered because he was infected by
289:59 murdered because he was infected by Trump derangement syndrome.
290:01 Trump derangement syndrome. >> Yeah. We'll throw the uh tweet or
290:04 >> Yeah. We'll throw the uh tweet or whatever you call it on truth social. I
290:06 whatever you call it on truth social. I don't um
290:07 don't um >> whatever whatever that we'll throw it up
290:09 >> whatever whatever that we'll throw it up on screen so everybody can read it. I
290:11 on screen so everybody can read it. I think
290:14 think the response that I saw from that was
290:16 the response that I saw from that was [ __ ] horrendous. And
290:19 [ __ ] horrendous. And and
290:22 and >> I wanted to bring this up a little
290:23 >> I wanted to bring this up a little earlier, but you know, when you're
290:25 earlier, but you know, when you're talking
290:26 talking cuz you see s you seemed surprised at
290:30 cuz you see s you seemed surprised at what people believe and [clears throat]
290:33 what people believe and [clears throat] I can see how you would think that from
290:35 I can see how you would think that from from your vantage point, from your
290:37 from your vantage point, from your perspective. But I'll give you the
290:40 perspective. But I'll give you the perspective of everybody else.
290:41 perspective of everybody else. >> Yeah.
290:42 >> Yeah. >> And so the perspective of everybody else
290:44 >> And so the perspective of everybody else is Yes. You know, we saw we saw, you
290:47 is Yes. You know, we saw we saw, you know, whether they're true, whether
290:48 know, whether they're true, whether they're not [ __ ] true, I don't I
290:50 they're not [ __ ] true, I don't I don't know. You know, I don't I just I
290:52 don't know. You know, I don't I just I just don't have the insight and I'm not
290:54 just don't have the insight and I'm not I'm not the person.
290:57 I'm not the person. I think a lot of people are painting
290:58 I think a lot of people are painting things as fact now that are all complete
291:01 things as fact now that are all complete [ __ ] It makes it damn near [ __ ]
291:03 [ __ ] It makes it damn near [ __ ] impossible to find what's if there is
291:05 impossible to find what's if there is any real truth anymore.
291:06 any real truth anymore. >> Yeah. But what here's what you know what
291:08 >> Yeah. But what here's what you know what we see is we see we just see
291:14 we see is we see we just see corruption
291:16 corruption >> that's never corrected and there are
291:18 >> that's never corrected and there are never any consequences. We see Eric
291:20 never any consequences. We see Eric Swallwell [ __ ] Chinese spies still
291:23 Swallwell [ __ ] Chinese spies still sitting in there. We see, you know, we
291:26 sitting in there. We see, you know, we we saw all the corruption with Trump and
291:29 we saw all the corruption with Trump and whether you're whether you believe it,
291:31 whether you're whether you believe it, whether you don't believe it, whether
291:32 whether you don't believe it, whether you think he's guilty, whether you don't
291:34 you think he's guilty, whether you don't think he's [ __ ] guilty, they went at
291:36 think he's [ __ ] guilty, they went at him hard, nothing happened. Whether you
291:39 him hard, nothing happened. Whether you believe the stuff that happened to you,
291:41 believe the stuff that happened to you, whether you don't believe it, you know
291:43 whether you don't believe it, you know what I mean? Whether the laptop's real,
291:44 what I mean? Whether the laptop's real, whether it's not, whe doesn't matter.
291:46 whether it's not, whe doesn't matter. Barisma stuff, nothing happened. the
291:50 Barisma stuff, nothing happened. the stuff, you know, when your dad was
291:51 stuff, you know, when your dad was president.
291:53 president. >> I can't think of any examples off the
291:55 >> I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. I know there's a
291:56 top of my head. I know there's a thousand of them before we're gonna get
291:57 thousand of them before we're gonna get >> I got to stop you.
292:00 >> I got to stop you. But what I'm saying is you never see you
292:02 But what I'm saying is you never see you never whether it's true or not true, you
292:05 never whether it's true or not true, you never see any [ __ ] accountability on
292:07 never see any [ __ ] accountability on the Democrat side, on the Republican
292:10 the Democrat side, on the Republican side. Right now, you brought it up, the
292:12 side. Right now, you brought it up, the Epstein files. We've been talking about
292:14 Epstein files. We've been talking about this [ __ ] for I don't know how many
292:16 this [ __ ] for I don't know how many [ __ ] years now. and and and and and
292:19 [ __ ] years now. and and and and and Trump was a big part of that and the
292:21 Trump was a big part of that and the Republican party was a big part of that.
292:23 Republican party was a big part of that. Well, now we got the [ __ ] presidency,
292:25 Well, now we got the [ __ ] presidency, we got the House, and we got the [ __ ]
292:27 we got the House, and we got the [ __ ] Senate,
292:28 Senate, and we still have zero Epstein files,
292:33 and we still have zero Epstein files, you know, and we and I sat right across
292:36 you know, and we and I sat right across from the [ __ ] current director of the
292:38 from the [ __ ] current director of the FBI and listened to him spew lie after
292:43 FBI and listened to him spew lie after [ __ ] lie after [ __ ] lie to me, not
292:48 [ __ ] lie after [ __ ] lie to me, not even realizing he was going to get
292:49 even realizing he was going to get director of the FBI while he's sitting
292:51 director of the FBI while he's sitting in front of me. Yeah,
292:52 in front of me. Yeah, >> but he did [ __ ] get it and he told us
292:55 >> but he did [ __ ] get it and he told us all what he was going to do if he did
292:56 all what he was going to do if he did get it.
292:58 get it. >> I don't see anything. I don't I don't
293:00 >> I don't see anything. I don't I don't see any differences in and so you see
293:03 see any differences in and so you see what I'm saying, which is just I know
293:05 what I'm saying, which is just I know >> pass the buck. Pass the buck. This guy's
293:08 >> pass the buck. Pass the buck. This guy's guilty. This guy's guilty. Never never I
293:11 guilty. This guy's guilty. Never never I mean
293:12 mean >> we just never [ __ ] see any
293:14 >> we just never [ __ ] see any accountability. And so then then it then
293:16 accountability. And so then then it then it becomes the political elite class,
293:19 it becomes the political elite class, the oligarch class, which you are a part
293:22 the oligarch class, which you are a part of, whether you got a lot of money or
293:25 of, whether you got a lot of money or not, been in politics for a long time.
293:28 not, been in politics for a long time. And it you see what I'm getting at? You
293:30 And it you see what I'm getting at? You see people, you see a population of
293:33 see people, you see a population of people that are getting beat to [ __ ]
293:35 people that are getting beat to [ __ ] with
293:36 with >> the most offensive thing that you've
293:38 >> the most offensive thing that you've ever said to
293:39 ever said to >> with with all my with with All right, I
293:43 >> with with all my with with All right, I get it. I get it.
293:44 get it. I get it. I get what you're saying is that is that
293:46 I get what you're saying is that is that the perception that but here's what I
293:47 the perception that but here's what I want to say to you there is truth John
293:52 want to say to you there is truth John and the fact of the matter is is that
293:54 and the fact of the matter is is that the only people that are benefiting is
293:56 the only people that are benefiting is how I started off when we talked started
293:57 how I started off when we talked started talking five hours ago who's benefiting
294:01 talking five hours ago who's benefiting >> them.
294:02 >> them. >> Yeah,
294:04 >> Yeah, >> I sure as hell not.
294:06 >> I sure as hell not. >> I see that.
294:07 >> I see that. >> And and but I'll sit here and answer any
294:10 >> And and but I'll sit here and answer any question. Like for instance, let me just
294:11 question. Like for instance, let me just like stop you on like one thing. like
294:13 like stop you on like one thing. like Eric Swallwell, that whole thing.
294:15 Eric Swallwell, that whole thing. [ __ ]
294:17 [ __ ] There is the truth. It's [ __ ] It's
294:20 There is the truth. It's [ __ ] It's a total [ __ ] story.
294:22 a total [ __ ] story. >> He didn't [ __ ] a Chinese spy.
294:24 >> He didn't [ __ ] a Chinese spy. >> He 100% did not [ __ ] a Chinese spy. 100%
294:27 >> He 100% did not [ __ ] a Chinese spy. 100% completely concocted. Have Have Eric on
294:31 completely concocted. Have Have Eric on Have Eric on this show. And I promise
294:33 Have Eric on this show. And I promise you, it's absolute 100% [ __ ] But
294:37 you, it's absolute 100% [ __ ] But here's the thing. We are all a victim of
294:40 here's the thing. We are all a victim of our algorithms.
294:41 our algorithms. >> Mhm. And so are you. And so am I. And
294:44 >> Mhm. And so are you. And so am I. And I'm not I'm not like pointing the
294:46 I'm not I'm not like pointing the finger.
294:46 finger. >> No, I'm aware. And I don't care.
294:47 >> No, I'm aware. And I don't care. >> And that's my story about the people
294:49 >> And that's my story about the people that came up to me at the, you know,
294:51 that came up to me at the, you know, screaming in my face.
294:53 screaming in my face. >> Is it? But there is a truth, Sean. But
294:55 >> Is it? But there is a truth, Sean. But who's benefiting? Who's benefiting from
294:59 who's benefiting? Who's benefiting from turning us all like I I mean like at
295:02 turning us all like I I mean like at each other's throats of con like
295:05 each other's throats of con like concocting this [ __ ]
295:07 concocting this [ __ ] I'll tell you that to begin with it's
295:10 I'll tell you that to begin with it's our adversaries and then on the second
295:13 our adversaries and then on the second it's the people that really control
295:16 it's the people that really control these [ __ ] things and it's oligarch
295:19 these [ __ ] things and it's oligarch not political
295:22 not political people it is the people that control
295:26 people it is the people that control billions and billions and billions of
295:29 billions and billions and billions of dollars
295:31 dollars and those are the people that are
295:32 and those are the people that are benefiting
295:34 benefiting >> 100%. Do you think that Mark Zuckerberg
295:36 >> 100%. Do you think that Mark Zuckerberg gives a [ __ ] [ __ ] about any of this?
295:38 gives a [ __ ] [ __ ] about any of this? Do you think that in any way?
295:40 Do you think that in any way? >> No.
295:40 >> No. >> I mean, let me point this out.
295:43 >> I mean, let me point this out. >> Whistleblower. You want to talk?
295:44 >> Whistleblower. You want to talk? >> Just watched every single tech
295:48 >> Just watched every single tech billionaire olig whatever you want to
295:50 billionaire olig whatever you want to call them. Literally switched from the
295:53 call them. Literally switched from the Biden administration
295:55 Biden administration right into the Trump administration.
295:57 right into the Trump administration. They're all there. They were all
295:58 They're all there. They were all bitching about Trump before.
296:00 bitching about Trump before. >> But here's the thing. They hated my dad.
296:01 >> But here's the thing. They hated my dad. What did we do? We brought in the
296:02 What did we do? We brought in the whistleblower. We tried to we we not we
296:05 whistleblower. We tried to we we not we I don't have anything to do with the
296:07 I don't have anything to do with the [ __ ] part of it. And I agree with
296:08 [ __ ] part of it. And I agree with you. Nobody's [ __ ] held them
296:10 you. Nobody's [ __ ] held them accountable. If you really wanted to be
296:11 accountable. If you really wanted to be able to hold the social media companies
296:13 able to hold the social media companies accountable, make them liable like
296:14 accountable, make them liable like everybody else for [ __ ] killing
296:16 everybody else for [ __ ] killing little girls because driving them to
296:18 little girls because driving them to suicide. I mean, they literally
296:20 suicide. I mean, they literally testified before Congress and
296:21 testified before Congress and whistleblower and showed how they
296:23 whistleblower and showed how they manipulated the algorithm to send our
296:26 manipulated the algorithm to send our children into depression and suicidal
296:29 children into depression and suicidal states.
296:30 states. >> And you know what? They didn't change
296:32 >> And you know what? They didn't change it. Even when they were notified of it
296:34 it. Even when they were notified of it and even when they became aware of it
296:36 and even when they became aware of it and even when they saw that people were
296:38 and even when they saw that people were taking their lives, teenagers, kids,
296:41 taking their lives, teenagers, kids, they did nothing about it. And we have
296:44 they did nothing about it. And we have the facts and the data and all of an
296:48 the facts and the data and all of an actual witness testimony that they did
296:50 actual witness testimony that they did this. What did they do?
296:53 this. What did they do? >> Not a damn thing.
296:54 >> Not a damn thing. >> And did anyone hold them accountable?
296:57 >> And did anyone hold them accountable? Anybody in Congress? You know why?
296:59 Anybody in Congress? You know why? Because the biggest [ __ ] problem that
297:00 Because the biggest [ __ ] problem that we have in this country is money. Is
297:03 we have in this country is money. Is money in our politics and money in our
297:05 money in our politics and money in our media and and and that's nothing new.
297:09 media and and and that's nothing new. >> But if you want to find a common enemy,
297:11 >> But if you want to find a common enemy, you know, I don't understand how they
297:13 you know, I don't understand how they don't realize
297:15 don't realize that there people are going to pick up
297:17 that there people are going to pick up some [ __ ] pitchfork soon, man.
297:20 some [ __ ] pitchfork soon, man. >> Maybe they do realize it.
297:23 >> Maybe they do realize it. >> Well, I'll tell you what.
297:25 >> Well, I'll tell you what. Maybe that's why they're building their
297:27 Maybe that's why they're building their bunkers and their billion-dollar yachts
297:30 bunkers and their billion-dollar yachts and their hidden structure. I don't
297:32 and their hidden structure. I don't know. But it is it at some point I think
297:37 know. But it is it at some point I think what I was saying before is that there
297:41 what I was saying before is that there is this
297:43 is this uh there is going to be this unholy
297:45 uh there is going to be this unholy union
297:47 union between radicals
297:49 between radicals that both come to the to the same
297:52 that both come to the to the same conclusion
297:54 conclusion is that no one can be trusted and
297:57 is that no one can be trusted and everyone is the enemy and chaos is the
298:00 everyone is the enemy and chaos is the only answer.
298:06 violence is the only answer and that's what we're being driven towards
298:08 what we're being driven towards >> and I really truly believe that. But
298:10 >> and I really truly believe that. But there is a truth
298:13 there is a truth there is a truth about for instance Eric
298:16 there is a truth about for instance Eric Swallwell that I know and I know to be a
298:19 Swallwell that I know and I know to be a lie. There is a truth about let me give
298:23 lie. There is a truth about let me give you an example. The [ __ ] case against
298:26 you an example. The [ __ ] case against Donald Trump as a related in in New York
298:28 Donald Trump as a related in in New York was [ __ ]
298:30 was [ __ ] I think it was a [ __ ] [ __ ] case.
298:34 I think it was a [ __ ] [ __ ] case. I think he's a crook. I think that he I
298:37 I think he's a crook. I think that he I think that he stole um uh documents. I
298:40 think that he stole um uh documents. I think that was a real case. I think he
298:42 think that was a real case. I think he tried to overthrow our government.
298:45 tried to overthrow our government. I think that he tried for a [ __ ]
298:47 I think that he tried for a [ __ ] coup. I think that was a real case. But
298:49 coup. I think that was a real case. But the case in New York was [ __ ]
298:52 the case in New York was [ __ ] If you're going to charge him, you
298:53 If you're going to charge him, you should have charged about 14 other real
298:54 should have charged about 14 other real estate magnets in New York for the same
298:56 estate magnets in New York for the same [ __ ] [ __ ] that he's doing.
299:02 But [clears throat] what we do is is that we allow ourselves to be driven by
299:04 that we allow ourselves to be driven by our algorithms to believe things that
299:07 our algorithms to believe things that just are not even remotely um uh uh true
299:10 just are not even remotely um uh uh true and which then we all give up. Like you
299:14 and which then we all give up. Like you just said, nobody's held accountable.
299:16 just said, nobody's held accountable. You know why the Biden Justice
299:18 You know why the Biden Justice Department did not This is This is the
299:22 Department did not This is This is the explanation that I have.
299:24 explanation that I have. Why did Joe Biden not demand that the
299:26 Why did Joe Biden not demand that the release of the Epstein files if it was
299:28 release of the Epstein files if it was such a big deal to Democrats?
299:30 such a big deal to Democrats? >> I don't know.
299:30 >> I don't know. >> The same reason that Joe Biden didn't
299:32 >> The same reason that Joe Biden didn't demand that um they drop the prosecution
299:34 demand that um they drop the prosecution of me because he didn't involve himself
299:36 of me because he didn't involve himself with the Department of Justice because
299:38 with the Department of Justice because as every other president before him
299:40 as every other president before him other than Richard Nixon who resigned
299:42 other than Richard Nixon who resigned because of it, he didn't direct the
299:45 because of it, he didn't direct the Department of Justice to do one thing or
299:47 Department of Justice to do one thing or another. Why didn't Merrick Garland do
299:49 another. Why didn't Merrick Garland do it? Guess as good as mine. I don't know.
299:54 it? Guess as good as mine. I don't know. But I will tell you this is that now
299:57 But I will tell you this is that now we're here after we have an FBI
300:00 we're here after we have an FBI director, a deputy FBI director, a
300:03 director, a deputy FBI director, a attorney general, and several other
300:06 attorney general, and several other people that are in his cabinet and the
300:08 people that are in his cabinet and the president himself who largely got
300:10 president himself who largely got elected through the energy of the people
300:12 elected through the energy of the people that wanted to have for absolutely the
300:15 that wanted to have for absolutely the right reasons these files released
300:18 right reasons these files released regardless of whose names were in it.
300:22 regardless of whose names were in it. and they haven't released it and they
300:25 and they haven't released it and they fought it tooth and nail and then they
300:27 fought it tooth and nail and then they had to get legislation and then they
300:29 had to get legislation and then they passed the legislation and he said don't
300:31 passed the legislation and he said don't sign it or don't vote for it and then he
300:33 sign it or don't vote for it and then he said do go ahead and vote for it and
300:35 said do go ahead and vote for it and then we have reports that there's what
300:39 then we have reports that there's what 100 FBI agents that spent thousands and
300:41 100 FBI agents that spent thousands and thousands of hours of scrubbing his name
300:43 thousands of hours of scrubbing his name from the files.
300:44 from the files. >> Oh, I'm sure they did.
300:45 >> Oh, I'm sure they did. >> Yeah. And now we can't trust anything
300:47 >> Yeah. And now we can't trust anything that's going to come out. And who
300:49 that's going to come out. And who [ __ ] loses? the the children.
300:55 [ __ ] loses? the the children. It's not like it's a it's not like it's
300:56 It's not like it's a it's not like it's an insignificant thing in any way. And
300:59 an insignificant thing in any way. And they talk about these, you know, these
301:01 they talk about these, you know, these um young women. They weren't young
301:03 um young women. They weren't young women. [ __ ] 14y olds. Kids
301:08 women. [ __ ] 14y olds. Kids kids. Hundreds of them. Entire networks
301:12 kids. Hundreds of them. Entire networks that they developed.
301:18 >> What do you think that was? >> What do I think that was? What do you
301:19 >> What do I think that was? What do you think this whole Epstein
301:22 think this whole Epstein debacle was? Do you think this was a
301:24 debacle was? Do you think this was a >> I don't even [ __ ] know at this point
301:26 >> I don't even [ __ ] know at this point and I really mean it. It's like I I will
301:28 and I really mean it. It's like I I will tell you is that the only thing that is
301:30 tell you is that the only thing that is the that is clear to me is this.
301:33 the that is clear to me is this. Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump during
301:37 Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump during a period of his life were [ __ ] thick
301:39 a period of his life were [ __ ] thick as thieves. And Donald Trump has tried
301:42 as thieves. And Donald Trump has tried to pass this off as being what Palm
301:46 to pass this off as being what Palm Beach was in the '9s. Okay. And that may
301:49 Beach was in the '9s. Okay. And that may be his view of it, but I've seen enough
301:55 be his view of it, but I've seen enough evidence of Donald Trump and his teen
301:58 evidence of Donald Trump and his teen modeling agencies and what he said on
302:01 modeling agencies and what he said on Howard Stern about how he can go he
302:05 Howard Stern about how he can go he would go into the back of these, you
302:06 would go into the back of these, you know, Miss Teen USA pageantss and, you
302:10 know, Miss Teen USA pageantss and, you know, walk up to the girls naked.
302:11 know, walk up to the girls naked. They're talking about girls when he's
302:13 They're talking about girls when he's talking about doing that. and wonder
302:15 talking about doing that. and wonder whether or not Donald Trump in his mind
302:17 whether or not Donald Trump in his mind has come up with this concoction that it
302:20 has come up with this concoction that it was all just what they did in the '90s.
302:22 was all just what they did in the '90s. It was models. I mean, that's what
302:24 It was models. I mean, that's what Michael Wolf says. Michael Wolf says
302:27 Michael Wolf says. Michael Wolf says that the justification in Trump's mind
302:29 that the justification in Trump's mind was is that they were models.
302:38 >> Wow. >> 14, 15 years old. I mean, we have a
302:41 >> 14, 15 years old. I mean, we have a president that has been that has been
302:43 president that has been that has been credibly accused by over well over a
302:48 credibly accused by over well over a dozen and a half women, if not more, of
302:50 dozen and a half women, if not more, of sexual assault.
302:57 And we're wondering whether or not as he fights tooth and nail for the Epstein
303:00 fights tooth and nail for the Epstein files that all of his supporters demand
303:03 files that all of his supporters demand it be released so that they could nail
303:06 it be released so that they could nail Bill Clinton to a cross.
303:09 Bill Clinton to a cross. and he won't release him. Why? Out of
303:11 and he won't release him. Why? Out of the kindness of his heart for the people
303:12 the kindness of his heart for the people that may get hurt. Do you have Have you
303:14 that may get hurt. Do you have Have you ever known the president to act out of
303:17 ever known the president to act out of anything but his own self-interest?
303:19 anything but his own self-interest? >> Mm-
303:20 >> Mm- >> Ever.
303:23 >> Ever. And so we're sitting here and acting as
303:26 And so we're sitting here and acting as if like, okay, I'm will I I'm I'm
303:30 if like, okay, I'm will I I'm I'm willing to believe that people can vote
303:34 willing to believe that people can vote for him and support him and overlook the
303:37 for him and support him and overlook the kind of the personal cruelty of his
303:39 kind of the personal cruelty of his politics. Because by the way, according
303:41 politics. Because by the way, according to everybody, Donald Trump is an
303:42 to everybody, Donald Trump is an incredibly charming person in person.
303:45 incredibly charming person in person. He really supposedly is.
303:47 He really supposedly is. >> He is. You know, I know that he had like
303:50 >> He is. You know, I know that he had like I think he told my dad when he came to
303:51 I think he told my dad when he came to the White House, he's like, "Joe, we
303:52 the White House, he's like, "Joe, we would have been best of friends if it
303:54 would have been best of friends if it weren't for politics."
304:01 And so I don't know what kind of sociopathic
304:03 sociopathic mind is able to do those things and then
304:06 mind is able to do those things and then the next day say that Joe Biden is a uh
304:09 the next day say that Joe Biden is a uh you know uh uh the worst human being to
304:12 you know uh uh the worst human being to have ever lived
304:15 have ever lived and um uh and and a you know a corrupt
304:19 and um uh and and a you know a corrupt scenile um you know uh criminal.
304:22 scenile um you know uh criminal. >> Well, I mean I talked about this with
304:23 >> Well, I mean I talked about this with Megan Kelly too. She talks about her
304:25 Megan Kelly too. She talks about her account on on I don't know if you
304:27 account on on I don't know if you remember that whole debacle back
304:29 remember that whole debacle back >> Yeah. handful of years ago, but she
304:32 >> Yeah. handful of years ago, but she pretty much says the exact same thing.
304:35 pretty much says the exact same thing. >> Yeah, man. And so I don't you know
304:40 >> Yeah, man. And so I don't you know just where have we gotten to, man?
304:44 just where have we gotten to, man? >> I don't know.
304:49 >> I want to tell you something, but I don't want to offend you.
304:50 don't want to offend you. >> Yeah. And
304:53 >> Yeah. And but I'm going to say it.
304:54 but I'm going to say it. >> Yeah.
304:56 >> Yeah. >> You know the thing that makes you look
304:58 >> You know the thing that makes you look really guilty
305:00 really guilty >> and after sitting here with you for
305:04 >> and after sitting here with you for 6 and 1/2 hours now with the brakes and
305:07 6 and 1/2 hours now with the brakes and everything.
305:07 everything. >> Yeah.
305:08 >> Yeah. >> I find you to be a very genuine person
305:11 >> I find you to be a very genuine person and um and I believe you.
305:16 and um and I believe you. >> The thing that makes you look very
305:18 >> The thing that makes you look very guilty is the pardon.
305:21 guilty is the pardon. the pardon from was it 20 2014 to
305:25 the pardon from was it 20 2014 to >> what 20 20 20 24
305:28 >> what 20 20 20 24 >> Can I tell you why?
305:29 >> Can I tell you why? >> Yeah.
305:30 >> Yeah. >> Makes me look guilty is because I was
305:32 >> Makes me look guilty is because I was found guilty
305:34 found guilty and that's what a pardon's for.
305:36 and that's what a pardon's for. >> Mhm. But it was a blanket pardon.
305:39 >> Mhm. But it was a blanket pardon. >> Yeah. Because you have to be able to go
305:40 >> Yeah. Because you have to be able to go back because the charges stemmed from
305:43 back because the charges stemmed from over 7 years ago. So, they went all the
305:47 over 7 years ago. So, they went all the way back to 2015
305:51 way back to 2015 for my taxes. That's what I was charged
305:54 for my taxes. That's what I was charged with. It's now 2025.
305:57 with. It's now 2025. Those are the crimes that I was pardoned
305:58 Those are the crimes that I was pardoned for in which I plead guilty to not
306:04 for in which I plead guilty to not filing my taxes on time and incorrectly
306:07 filing my taxes on time and incorrectly identifying business expenses as uh uh
306:10 identifying business expenses as uh uh personal expenses as business expenses.
306:12 personal expenses as business expenses. >> That is all it's for.
306:14 >> That is all it's for. >> Yeah. So
306:15 >> Yeah. So >> there's like there's like eight
306:17 >> there's like there's like eight different charges for over two different
306:19 different charges for over two different years. But yeah, that's what it is.
306:20 years. But yeah, that's what it is. Those are all that the charges are for.
306:22 Those are all that the charges are for. And then there's the gun charge that
306:24 And then there's the gun charge that went back to 2017. So it goes back to
306:27 went back to 2017. So it goes back to the beginning of their investigation as
306:29 the beginning of their investigation as it relates to my tax investigation,
306:31 it relates to my tax investigation, which is was back to 2014, I believe,
306:34 which is was back to 2014, I believe, and so 2024. It goes back 10 years. And
306:38 and so 2024. It goes back 10 years. And that's the blanket pardon is for those
306:40 that's the blanket pardon is for those crimes. And when you give someone a
306:42 crimes. And when you give someone a pardon, that's the pardon that you give
306:43 pardon, that's the pardon that you give them. And the reason to give me the
306:45 them. And the reason to give me the pardon is this and which I have make no
306:48 pardon is this and which I have make no apologies for anymore.
306:50 apologies for anymore. is this. Do you think
306:54 is this. Do you think that under the Donald Trump Department
306:57 that under the Donald Trump Department of Justice that I would have gotten a
306:59 of Justice that I would have gotten a fair shake as it related to what I knew
307:03 fair shake as it related to what I knew that I would get a fair shake for, which
307:05 that I would get a fair shake for, which is I believe that I would have won the
307:07 is I believe that I would have won the appeal
307:09 appeal and that 922 G3 is going to be ruled
307:12 and that 922 G3 is going to be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court,
307:14 unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, which would have uh which would nullify
307:16 which would have uh which would nullify my my conviction. And I believe that I
307:19 my my conviction. And I believe that I would have won on an appeal in the way
307:21 would have won on an appeal in the way in which they brought the tax case
307:22 in which they brought the tax case against me.
307:24 against me. And during that period of time, however,
307:27 And during that period of time, however, I would have been under the opaces of
307:29 I would have been under the opaces of the Bureau of Federal Prisons,
307:32 the Bureau of Federal Prisons, which is controlled by Donald Trump and
307:35 which is controlled by Donald Trump and controlled by Pam Bondi and controlled
307:37 controlled by Pam Bondi and controlled by the the people that have been saying
307:41 by the the people that have been saying for over eight years at that point that
307:44 for over eight years at that point that I was literally the spawn of the devil.
307:48 I was literally the spawn of the devil. And the demand, even if it wasn't in
307:51 And the demand, even if it wasn't in their interest, the demand from their
307:54 their interest, the demand from their most vitriolic and hateful followers
307:58 most vitriolic and hateful followers would have been the same way that they
308:00 would have been the same way that they blew up my plea deal. is [snorts] that
308:02 blew up my plea deal. is [snorts] that that I needed to be in jail at that
308:05 that I needed to be in jail at that time, that I shouldn't be held uh uh on
308:08 time, that I shouldn't be held uh uh on release, that I should be charged with
308:10 release, that I should be charged with other things, that they really are just
308:12 other things, that they really are just letting me off easy,
308:14 letting me off easy, that you know, I was engaged in bribery
308:18 that you know, I was engaged in bribery or I was You don't think that they would
308:20 or I was You don't think that they would have used me if I was under the thumb of
308:24 have used me if I was under the thumb of the federal government and the Federal
308:26 the federal government and the Federal Bureau of of of of parole
308:29 Bureau of of of of parole to silence my dad or silence anybody in
308:31 to silence my dad or silence anybody in my family or silence the people around
308:33 my family or silence the people around me because that's what they're doing
308:35 me because that's what they're doing right now to everybody else.
308:38 right now to everybody else. And so I don't make I I I don't
308:41 And so I don't make I I I don't apologize for it. And then just a poorly
308:43 apologize for it. And then just a poorly on a human level. My dad's 83 years old.
308:47 on a human level. My dad's 83 years old. I'm 55.
308:49 I'm 55. Even if you think that I [ __ ] up,
308:53 Even if you think that I [ __ ] up, even if you think that I am uh there is
308:57 even if you think that I am uh there is not a there's not a a a legal
309:00 not a there's not a a a legal commentator in the world that would say
309:02 commentator in the world that would say to you that as a firsttime offender, I
309:04 to you that as a firsttime offender, I would have ever received a jail sentence
309:07 would have ever received a jail sentence for a nonviolent crime of owning a gun
309:09 for a nonviolent crime of owning a gun for 10 days and lying on a form or for
309:12 for 10 days and lying on a form or for failure to pay my taxes on time and take
309:15 failure to pay my taxes on time and take um uh after paying penalties and
309:17 um uh after paying penalties and interest, full penalties two $2.8
309:20 interest, full penalties two $2.8 million
309:25 that I would have end up serving any time. But do you think that I wouldn't
309:26 time. But do you think that I wouldn't have served time?
309:28 have served time? That it wouldn't have been an enormous
309:29 That it wouldn't have been an enormous amount of pressure to do that?
309:30 amount of pressure to do that? >> I tell you what I think.
309:32 >> I tell you what I think. >> And that they wouldn't have been able to
309:33 >> And that they wouldn't have been able to violate me on a parole if they decided
309:35 violate me on a parole if they decided that they wanted to take a P test and
309:36 that they wanted to take a P test and and tell me that I was, you know, a
309:38 and tell me that I was, you know, a junkie. Would anybody ever believe me?
309:47 >> I think that no, they wouldn't believe you. No, I don't think he would have get
309:50 you. No, I don't think he would have get a received a fair trial. And with that
309:53 a received a fair trial. And with that being said, I don't think anybody
309:58 being said, I don't think anybody in the Trump family would have received
309:59 in the Trump family would have received a fair trial.
310:00 a fair trial. >> No, I agree with you. I 100% agree with
310:03 >> No, I agree with you. I 100% agree with you. I do.
310:04 you. I do. >> I think that we no longer have a fair
310:08 >> I think that we no longer have a fair and justice department.
310:12 and justice department. >> Tell you what, man. I don't think I I I
310:14 >> Tell you what, man. I don't think I I I I won't I won't argue that with you. I
310:17 I won't I won't argue that with you. I won't argue with that with you. And I
310:20 won't argue with that with you. And I and I I loathe to think that that I'm in
310:25 and I I loathe to think that that I'm in any way associated uh with um with that
310:28 any way associated uh with um with that because that's the truth of the matter
310:30 because that's the truth of the matter too, Sean. It's [ __ ] up.
310:32 too, Sean. It's [ __ ] up. >> Yeah,
310:33 >> Yeah, >> it's [ __ ] up. And that I, you know,
310:34 >> it's [ __ ] up. And that I, you know, like that my dad gave me a pardon. You
310:36 like that my dad gave me a pardon. You don't think that that like really makes
310:37 don't think that that like really makes me like feel like [ __ ] like I'm the
310:40 me like feel like [ __ ] like I'm the poster boy for for that? I'm the poster
310:44 poster boy for for that? I'm the poster boy for, you know, the the elite son of
310:47 boy for, you know, the the elite son of the president who got a um who got
310:49 the president who got a um who got something nobody else could possibly
310:51 something nobody else could possibly ever get simply by by the fact of his of
310:55 ever get simply by by the fact of his of his birth. No matter how much he [ __ ]
310:56 his birth. No matter how much he [ __ ] up, he got he got away with it. And to
310:58 up, he got he got away with it. And to your point, you got these guys sitting
311:00 your point, you got these guys sitting here trying to figure out how they're
311:02 here trying to figure out how they're going to [ __ ] um uh make ends meet to
311:04 going to [ __ ] um uh make ends meet to make it to the end of the week and that
311:05 make it to the end of the week and that are getting um you know, they just got
311:08 are getting um you know, they just got pulled over by some [ __ ] state cop
311:10 pulled over by some [ __ ] state cop that's giving them a [ __ ] hard time.
311:12 that's giving them a [ __ ] hard time. and they come back and they turn on Fox
311:13 and they come back and they turn on Fox News or they put on the Shawn Ryan show
311:16 News or they put on the Shawn Ryan show and here's here's [ __ ] Hunter Biden
311:20 and here's here's [ __ ] Hunter Biden like he got a pardon. He got something I
311:22 like he got a pardon. He got something I didn't. It would piss me the [ __ ] off,
311:23 didn't. It would piss me the [ __ ] off, too. I get it.
311:27 too. I get it. I mean, what do you want me to do?
311:29 I mean, what do you want me to do? >> Like I said, I I hope you don't take
311:31 >> Like I said, I I hope you don't take that the wrong way.
311:32 that the wrong way. >> I don't take it personally at all. And
311:33 >> I don't take it personally at all. And it's like literally it's one of the
311:35 it's like literally it's one of the things I keep coming back to you about
311:37 things I keep coming back to you about like what I it's like I've been forced
311:40 like what I it's like I've been forced into the into uh either deciding that
311:45 into the into uh either deciding that I I truly can't
311:48 I I truly can't exist
311:49 exist in any healthy way whatsoever if I gave
311:52 in any healthy way whatsoever if I gave a [ __ ]
311:55 a [ __ ] about what other people think beyond the
311:58 about what other people think beyond the people that I um uh know that I owe a um
312:04 people that I um uh know that I owe a um uh owe them my respect. And that may be
312:06 uh owe them my respect. And that may be people that I meet like you or people
312:08 people that I meet like you or people that I watch that I want to earn their
312:11 that I watch that I want to earn their respect like you. Like I said, I don't
312:14 respect like you. Like I said, I don't think there's anybody that I learned in
312:16 think there's anybody that I learned in my family that we should respect more
312:18 my family that we should respect more than the people that uh and I know and
312:19 than the people that uh and I know and I'm not blowing [ __ ] smoke and like,
312:21 I'm not blowing [ __ ] smoke and like, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I love
312:22 you know what I mean? Like, oh, I love the, you know, I love guys that, you
312:23 the, you know, I love guys that, you know, I didn't serve. Well, I did serve.
312:25 know, I didn't serve. Well, I did serve. I got kicked out of the Navy.
312:27 I got kicked out of the Navy. And um and uh but
312:33 And um and uh but and to know
312:35 and to know that
312:37 that uh that that's the perception
312:41 uh that that's the perception is that I I got to get out of bed in the
312:43 is that I I got to get out of bed in the morning and just try to do the [ __ ]
312:44 morning and just try to do the [ __ ] right thing.
312:46 right thing. That's all I can do.
312:47 That's all I can do. >> Yeah.
312:48 >> Yeah. >> But I'm not going to apologize. I'm not
312:50 >> But I'm not going to apologize. I'm not going to apologize for uh I will
312:52 going to apologize for uh I will apologize for a lot. I will apologize to
312:55 apologize for a lot. I will apologize to my family. If I will apologize to my
312:57 my family. If I will apologize to my friend, I will apologize to the people
312:59 friend, I will apologize to the people in the community that I care about and
313:02 in the community that I care about and which I you know like I I mean I have a
313:04 which I you know like I I mean I have a lot of people that I've apologized to.
313:06 lot of people that I've apologized to. I've spent I spent 5 years making amends
313:09 I've spent I spent 5 years making amends trying to make amends and I still owe a
313:10 trying to make amends and I still owe a lot more amends to a lot of people that
313:12 lot more amends to a lot of people that I haven't been able to make amends with
313:14 I haven't been able to make amends with or had the bravery or the courage enough
313:16 or had the bravery or the courage enough to do yet. And this is personal stuff.
313:20 to do yet. And this is personal stuff. And um
313:23 And um but what I won't apologize for is um uh
313:28 but what I won't apologize for is um uh for for things that I did not do
313:32 for for things that I did not do for for [ __ ]
313:35 for for [ __ ] uh uh conspiracy theories that that uh
313:41 uh uh conspiracy theories that that uh the laptop I won't apologize
313:46 the laptop I won't apologize for Burisma may not been you know the
313:49 for Burisma may not been you know the smartest thing to do in retrospect in
313:50 smartest thing to do in retrospect in light of the the the the fact that they
313:52 light of the the the the fact that they try to impeach my father over it,
313:56 try to impeach my father over it, but I'm not going to apologize for it.
314:00 but I'm not going to apologize for it. Um, I know what I need to apologize for.
314:03 Um, I know what I need to apologize for. I've done a lot of it and I still got a
314:05 I've done a lot of it and I still got a lot to go.
314:12 But God, I hate I hate and I'm fully fully aware of every room
314:15 and I'm fully fully aware of every room that I walk in and I walk in with your
314:18 that I walk in and I walk in with your guys, you know, and I see that you put
314:21 guys, you know, and I see that you put together a team of people that are like
314:23 together a team of people that are like they're they're buttoned up from the guy
314:26 they're they're buttoned up from the guy that picked me up at the airport to um
314:29 that picked me up at the airport to um you know to Jeremy
314:31 you know to Jeremy like they're they're buttoned up guys.
314:34 like they're they're buttoned up guys. And I mean, you just get a sense in
314:37 And I mean, you just get a sense in that. And I bet you they don't [ __ ]
314:39 that. And I bet you they don't [ __ ] think that I'm a decent human being
314:40 think that I'm a decent human being before I walked in here.
314:42 before I walked in here. I know I walk into that room uh with an
314:46 I know I walk into that room uh with an the uh the incredible advantage of
314:48 the uh the incredible advantage of incredibly low expectations
314:52 incredibly low expectations because they not only think that I'm uh
314:54 because they not only think that I'm uh you know a near do well and somebody
314:57 you know a near do well and somebody that's been given all of the advantages
314:58 that's been given all of the advantages of the world and squandered them, but
315:01 of the world and squandered them, but they also think that I'm sleazy on top
315:03 they also think that I'm sleazy on top of that and that, you know, I'm a part
315:06 of that and that, you know, I'm a part of the problem. And that's and and you
315:09 of the problem. And that's and and you know it is a beautiful thing to be given
315:11 know it is a beautiful thing to be given the space to try to um uh
315:16 the space to try to um uh uh give them a different impression.
315:20 uh give them a different impression. >> What do you think they think now?
315:28 >> Uh I don't know. I think that um they think that I probably [ __ ] talk way
315:30 think that I probably [ __ ] talk way too much [laughter] and that they're
315:32 too much [laughter] and that they're thinking when is he going to shut up
315:35 thinking when is he going to shut up because we want to go home and eat
315:37 because we want to go home and eat dinner with our families. I think that
315:38 dinner with our families. I think that that's what they're thinking at this
315:40 that's what they're thinking at this point is that I've just literally tired
315:42 point is that I've just literally tired them out. I have submission by um by
315:46 them out. I have submission by um by verbal diarrhea. That's what I think
315:48 verbal diarrhea. That's what I think they think. No, I I I don't know.
315:51 they think. No, I I I don't know. >> You know what I think they're thinking?
315:52 >> You know what I think they're thinking? What
315:53 What >> [ __ ] We got fooled again.
315:57 >> [ __ ] We got fooled again. Yeah.
315:59 Yeah. Well, I tell you, you know, I wish that
316:02 Well, I tell you, you know, I wish that I had the energy to go one by one by the
316:05 I had the energy to go one by one by the people that I really mean this, you
316:08 people that I really mean this, you know, the people that remind me of my
316:10 know, the people that remind me of my brother.
316:24 anyway, [clears throat and cough]
316:31 what would you say to Bo? I say it to him all the time.
317:07 single thing that I never doubted in my life
317:09 life [clears throat]
317:30 And he could beat the [ __ ] out of me and I could, you know, I mean, we were
317:33 I could, you know, I mean, we were brothers,
317:34 brothers, you know. I mean, [sighs] I don't know.
317:39 you know. I mean, [sighs] I don't know. We uh then we fought and
317:43 We uh then we fought and and uh but
317:47 and uh but never in my life uh you know would ever
317:52 never in my life uh you know would ever ever doubt
317:54 ever doubt that no matter what uh sorry is that um
318:21 Yeah, sorry. Jesus Christ. It's been 10 years. I'm still crying over it. But not
318:24 years. I'm still crying over it. But not bad tears. I promise you. It's uh like
318:29 bad tears. I promise you. It's uh like um I feel so incredibly lucky
318:39 to have that relationship and still have it. I really mean it. I still have it. I
318:41 it. I really mean it. I still have it. I mean, that's the one thing that um I'm
318:44 mean, that's the one thing that um I'm positive of is that um is that I am uh
318:51 positive of is that um is that I am uh in my best moments I'm fully 100%
318:54 in my best moments I'm fully 100% connected to that.
318:59 connected to that. And God,
319:12 You talk to him often? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all the time.
319:15 >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all the time. There's not a day that goes by. There's
319:17 There's not a day that goes by. There's probably not, you know, and I don't mean
319:18 probably not, you know, and I don't mean in a, you know, in a melodramatic, you
319:20 in a, you know, in a melodramatic, you know, macob way. It's just that, you
319:23 know, macob way. It's just that, you know, I went through a period of time
319:25 know, I went through a period of time where I I uh did everything in my power
319:29 where I I uh did everything in my power to drown out his voice in my head. I
319:33 to drown out his voice in my head. I mean, I literally, you know, I I I uh in
319:38 mean, I literally, you know, I I I uh in that period of time, I tried to smoke
319:41 that period of time, I tried to smoke smoke him out.
319:43 smoke him out. Couldn't I couldn't do it.
319:46 Couldn't I couldn't do it. And um but there's never a moment, and I
319:49 And um but there's never a moment, and I don't and I and I really don't mean it
319:52 don't and I and I really don't mean it in a melodramatic way. There's never a
319:54 in a melodramatic way. There's never a moment that I'm not having a
319:56 moment that I'm not having a conversation,
319:59 conversation, you know,
320:01 you know, and uh
320:07 usually, you know, he's telling me to shut up,
320:16 stop talking. Have you ever got anything back from
320:17 Have you ever got anything back from him?
320:18 him? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I really mean it. I
320:20 >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. I really mean it. I mean, I I I I uh and I I don't think
320:24 mean, I I I I uh and I I don't think this is like I uh was I I I 100%,
320:31 this is like I uh was I I I 100%, you know, uh and I and I don't mean it
320:34 you know, uh and I and I don't mean it in like some like, you know, uh you
320:37 in like some like, you know, uh you know, cinematic, you know, ghost kind of
320:39 know, cinematic, you know, ghost kind of thing like my brother's hovering over my
320:41 thing like my brother's hovering over my shoulder. It's just that his voice is in
320:43 shoulder. It's just that his voice is in my head like I can hear him talking to
320:46 my head like I can hear him talking to me. And I don't mean that it's kind of
320:48 me. And I don't mean that it's kind of coming coming out of left field. It's
320:50 coming coming out of left field. It's like when I have a conversation and want
320:51 like when I have a conversation and want to figure out how to do things, it's
320:53 to figure out how to do things, it's like, you know, I can hear him
320:56 like, you know, I can hear him uh kind of uh whether it's the echo of
320:59 uh kind of uh whether it's the echo of it or, you know, and there's never a
321:02 it or, you know, and there's never a time that I don't feel um uh I feel the
321:07 time that I don't feel um uh I feel the same thing about my mom, you know. Um
321:13 same thing about my mom, you know. Um uh
321:21 I don't think that that uh people leave us. Um
321:24 us. Um I think that they
321:27 I think that they uh I think that whatever that energy is
321:29 uh I think that whatever that energy is is um uh is is becomes
321:34 is um uh is is becomes uh only discernible to us to the degree
321:36 uh only discernible to us to the degree with which we are um try to tie
321:38 with which we are um try to tie ourselves in with the rest of the
321:42 ourselves in with the rest of the uh with every sensient [clears throat]
321:45 uh with every sensient [clears throat] thing and I mean everything. And um
321:50 thing and I mean everything. And um I don't know. I'm now I'm getting uh
321:53 I don't know. I'm now I'm getting uh Yeah, people are going to truly think
321:56 Yeah, people are going to truly think that
321:59 that uh I'm talking to ghosts. But no, I I
322:01 uh I'm talking to ghosts. But no, I I really mean it. I talk to my brother all
322:02 really mean it. I talk to my brother all the time.
322:03 the time. >> I talk to him, man.
322:04 >> I talk to him, man. >> Yeah.
322:04 >> Yeah. >> I don't give a [ __ ] what people think.
322:06 >> I don't give a [ __ ] what people think. >> Yeah. No, I don't. I truly don't. I'm
322:09 >> Yeah. No, I don't. I truly don't. I'm giving you an out to be able to say,
322:10 giving you an out to be able to say, "Well, he was a little crazy at that
322:12 "Well, he was a little crazy at that point." But the um but yeah, I I talk to
322:14 point." But the um but yeah, I I talk to him all the time.
322:16 him all the time. talk to him all the time.
322:19 talk to him all the time. Used to write to him in those moments
322:23 Used to write to him in those moments and just to write it down and uh
322:38 and the messages I get back aren't, you know, all sunshine and roses.
322:42 know, all sunshine and roses. A lot of it's tough love.
322:44 A lot of it's tough love. A lot of it's telling me, you know, the
322:48 A lot of it's telling me, you know, the only thing what I hear from my brothers,
322:50 only thing what I hear from my brothers, the only thing
322:53 the only thing that'll save you is radical honesty with
322:57 that'll save you is radical honesty with yourself,
322:59 yourself, you know.
323:02 you know. Um, and he's right in.
323:04 Um, and he's right in. >> I said to you guys out there, I said,
323:05 >> I said to you guys out there, I said, you know, I just don't like I I don't
323:09 you know, I just don't like I I don't I don't feel like [clears throat] I I
323:10 I don't feel like [clears throat] I I hope it is not coming off as like I'm
323:12 hope it is not coming off as like I'm like like in any way being like
323:14 like like in any way being like defensive, but I at the same time want
323:18 defensive, but I at the same time want to be able to tell the truth. And the
323:20 to be able to tell the truth. And the truth is is that I [ __ ] up a lot of
323:22 truth is is that I [ __ ] up a lot of [ __ ]
323:24 [ __ ] my life, my family, my um I I created
323:28 my life, my family, my um I I created and and you know
323:30 and and you know um you know
323:35 um you know Jake Tapper went on some show and and
323:37 Jake Tapper went on some show and and after I criticized him for the book that
323:39 after I criticized him for the book that he wrote and he said you know Hunter
323:41 he wrote and he said you know Hunter Biden is demonstrabably a scumbag. I
323:45 Biden is demonstrabably a scumbag. I think he used the word scumbag
323:47 think he used the word scumbag um uh or sleasball or something like
323:50 um uh or sleasball or something like that who um who dated his brother's wife
323:55 that who um who dated his brother's wife and cheated on her uh uh brother's widow
324:00 and cheated on her uh uh brother's widow and cheated on his wife and abandoned
324:03 and cheated on his wife and abandoned his children and like went through this
324:04 his children and like went through this whole list list of things and is a is a
324:07 whole list list of things and is a is a known crack addict who uh you know who's
324:10 known crack addict who uh you know who's been a long-term addict and you know
324:12 been a long-term addict and you know went through this whole [ __ ] you
324:23 and um and you know
324:30 yeah was a crack addict
324:33 was a crack addict showed really poor judgment when I was
324:35 showed really poor judgment when I was addicted to drugs. I had uh
324:41 addicted to drugs. I had uh I made real mistakes
324:44 I made real mistakes in my personal life.
324:47 in my personal life. Never had an intention of cruelty or
324:49 Never had an intention of cruelty or some kind of venal, you know, all of it
324:52 some kind of venal, you know, all of it basically out of grief and and trauma
324:55 basically out of grief and and trauma and loss and and desperation,
324:57 and loss and and desperation, selfishness to try to fix that whatever
325:01 selfishness to try to fix that whatever hole was in my in my heart.
325:11 But haven't we all? And I really mean this.
325:13 this. Haven't we all?
325:14 Haven't we all? >> Lord knows I have. And you know, I say
325:18 >> Lord knows I have. And you know, I say to people like Jake, you know,
325:21 to people like Jake, you know, you cast what what's it? Cast the first
325:24 you cast what what's it? Cast the first stone, you know,
325:26 stone, you know, like
325:34 like man, like who the [ __ ] are you or anybody else for me to judge you?
325:38 anybody else for me to judge you? Now I've had the gift of making it
325:44 Now I've had the gift of making it all for everybody to judge.
325:53 I mean the gift of like realizing that no one else's judgment defines me.
325:58 no one else's judgment defines me. I'm just honored that you gave me the
326:00 I'm just honored that you gave me the space
326:02 space and I really mean it to
326:05 and I really mean it to just spend six hours.
326:07 just spend six hours. Who the hell else [ __ ] cares, Sean? I
326:10 Who the hell else [ __ ] cares, Sean? I mean, who am I? But it really means the
326:12 mean, who am I? But it really means the world to me that like, you know, and you
326:16 world to me that like, you know, and you let everybody else, but more importantly
326:18 let everybody else, but more importantly to me, it just meant to me be able to
326:19 to me, it just meant to me be able to sit with you.
326:21 sit with you. >> Thank you, man.
326:32 >> I think that's what it's all about, man. Redemption and owning your [ __ ] It's
326:35 Redemption and owning your [ __ ] It's the greatest story in in the history of
326:37 the greatest story in in the history of the world. The redemption story.
326:42 the world. The redemption story. >> You got a hell of a story, man.
326:44 >> You got a hell of a story, man. >> I still got a long ways to go.
326:48 >> I still got a long ways to go. >> You want to end this with a prayer?
326:49 >> You want to end this with a prayer? >> Yeah.
326:50 >> Yeah. >> You want to lead it? The prayer that I
326:53 >> You want to lead it? The prayer that I always say is Hail Mary because I'm a
326:56 always say is Hail Mary because I'm a I'm a I'm a Catholic boy. So, Hail Mary,
326:59 I'm a I'm a Catholic boy. So, Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
327:02 full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, blessed is
327:03 Blessed art thou among women, blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary,
327:05 the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now
327:07 mother of God, pray for us sinners, now at the hour of our death. Amen.
327:10 at the hour of our death. Amen. >> Amen.
327:10 >> Amen. >> Amen.
327:12 >> Amen. >> Yeah.
327:13 >> Yeah. >> Honor.
327:14 >> Honor. >> Thanks, man.
327:15 >> Thanks, man. >> Thank you, man.
327:16 >> Thank you, man. >> Appreciate it.
327:17 >> Appreciate it. >> What a [music] [ __ ] interview, dude.
327:19 >> What a [music] [ __ ] interview, dude. >> Thank you.
327:23 >> Thank you. >> [music]
327:35 >> No matter where you're watching Shan Ryan Show from, if you get anything out
327:37 Ryan Show from, if you get anything out of this, please like, comment,
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