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‘Avatar: Fire and Ash’ Burns Bright Before Flaming Out. Plus: Best Picture Power Rankings | Ringer Movies | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: ‘Avatar: Fire and Ash’ Burns Bright Before Flaming Out. Plus: Best Picture Power Rankings
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This podcast episode discusses the latest Avatar film, "Fire and Ash," and the significant news of the Academy Awards telecast moving to YouTube starting in 2029, alongside a review of Oscar shortlists and a "Best Picture Power Rankings."
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I'm Sean Fennessy.
>> I'm Amanda Dobin.
>> And this is the Big Picture Conversation
Show about Avatar, Fire, and Ash. Today
on the show, we're headed back to
Pandora as we dive into the depths of
James Cameron's third Avatar film, Fire
and Ash. We'll talk about how it stacks
up to the previous installments. High
frame rate film making. Amanda, yes,
good morning.
>> Okay. Uh whether or not a Na'Vi can be
hot or sexually desirable. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> we'll talk about that. Uh Cameron's
future with the franchise. Will there be
more of these movies? We shall see. Um
we'll also check in on our best picture
power rankings because this is the last
time we'll be discussing that in the
year 2025. And this is a movie that may
or may not make the cut. We're also
going to talk about the trailer for one
of our most anticipated movies of 2026
and the Oscar short list. And we've just
had some crazy news in the world of The
Big Picture and the Academy Awards right
after this.
This episode of The Big Picture is
presented by Amazon Prime. You know how
in every great holiday movie there's
that last minute scramble to make it all
come together? From gifts to hosting
essentials, Prime's fast shipping is
always there for you during the
holidays, especially when it's last
minute and just can't wait. So, if you
need fast, free delivery that saves the
day, it's on Prime. Head to
amazon.com/prime to shop now.
>> Okay, we're back.
>> You're getting so good at your like
local news tonight at 10 p.m. teaser.
It's like it's really coming through for you.
you.
>> I know. My native broadcaster/game show
host has really popped recently, which
is so great because we're all streaming
now, baby. Including the Academy Awards.
The Academy Awards just announced the uh
Academy of Motion Picture Arts and
Sciences that starting in 2029 they will
be moving their telecast from ABC
>> to YouTube.
>> Yes. So, we knew the rights were on the
block and there were multiple biders
would, you know, would ABC Disney pony
up again? Would it be Netflix who's been
making a real push into live events and
dieballs and all sorts of new
programming? Sure. Yeah. And uh and or
would it be YouTube? And and and here we
are. YouTube wins again. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> I think this is good. That's
>> I have no problem with it.
>> I I think it's good. I think it is. I
think it's logical. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I think it makes a tremendous amount of
sense for the Academy Awards as we know
them right now and probably for its at
least immediate future.
>> And I think it's good for consumers. Yes,
Yes,
>> who are going to be able to watch this
show for free around the world. And I
will emphasize around the world
>> because one, this telecast was not as
clearly and easily available in England,
Scotland, Ireland, Australia, you know,
the a lot of English-speaking countries
that would want to watch. Obviously, the
in addition to that, the Academy has
gotten so international in the last 10
years, and the best picture race has
gotten so international. Right now, my
gut tells me there's going to be three,
maybe even four foreign language
nominees for best picture this year.
Yeah. Stands to reason that this
becoming the World Historical Movie
Awards yearby year, which it was not
really if we're being honest in the
past, but has it has becoming that, it
makes sense that around the world you'd
want to have easy access to this show in
one centralized space. This deal makes
that so.
>> Yes, I am also okay with it. I mean, I
do think user-wise, and I I tend to
think more in terms of consumption
of an American audience because that's
like what we've been talking about, but
I even think for an American audience,
this will be easier and is meeting the
audience where it is. And you know,
we've talked a lot about the YouTube
threat to the movies at large or really
to everyone else. because
I guess they
don't really care whether people are
watching the Oscars on linear TV versus
YouTube. And it's an interesting example
of this is about movie culture. The
Oscars are promoting movie culture, but
it still was a TV show. So, I don't
think you're threatening
like the theatrical experience by
putting the television show honoring
movies that used to be watched on ABC on
a place where more people can find it. I
think it's actually an instance of
making movie culture more available to
people who might be interested in.
>> I think it also makes the Oscars as a
brand a slightly more totalized
streaming experience in ways that are
good and bad. The good I'll cite here.
one, you basically get to build out the
academyy's YouTube presence and then
everything related to the academy all
lives in one place. And since the
academy becomes purely associated with
YouTube, then when they're airing the
governor's ball as they intend to, that
might be more of an event for us to
cover to be a topic of conversation. And
then when Tom Cruz gives that speech,
it's not something that's happening in a
ballroom in the middle of Los Angeles
and then the video will be posted 12
hours later. It's something that people
might tune in to watch. um all the red
carpet coverage is going to end up on
YouTube. That's a huge shift, right?
That's a dramatic and fascinating thing.
Obviously, places like E will still have
access to it, but you're making you're
commodifying all of the apparatuses
around the Academy Awards and around the
Academyy's history into this place. So,
like will the Oscar nominees lunchon be
appearing on YouTube? Does that mean
that that's something that we'll get to
see instead of hear about from five to
10 trade reporters?
>> Probably. I would make the most hay out
of those things that I probably could.
So you get all that. Now the bad is not
a is more of a kind of a cosmic things
are different now bad. I would say that
there is a inevitably a kind of lowering
of the prestige and specialness of the
show by making it something
>> that you almost have to watch on a
device. You know, like obviously people
will be watching it on televisions and
we will too, but
>> YouTube's association with the sort of
like onthe-go short form consumption
>> versus this historically too long telecast.
telecast.
>> There's a bit of signal to noise there.
You know, you will you pop in and check
out the Oscars and then tune out. I
guess some people do that on the
regular, but you know, it does it's less
glamorous to be on YouTube. Let's be honest.
honest.
>> Yeah. Right now anyway in 2025, but it
like it's less glamorous to be on
streaming. And what this is is just a
confirmation of that's it's as you said
it's a it's a streaming duopoly. And
like what's interesting in this in
addition to it being on YouTube is that
Netflix didn't get it.
>> Um and
that that was like my first thought when
I saw this. I was like
>> I think that means since they're
spending so much money right now, they
have the actors awards, right?
>> The actors awards. I'm sorry. It'll
never be funny to me.
>> It's going to take a while for that one
to sink in. I did remember it
thankfully, but you know, they're
getting involved in in live awards programming.
programming.
>> They obviously have spent the last 10
years making awards films. Is it because
that would be seen as a conflict of
interest? I don't really think so
because ABC was owned by Disney, which
also had films that competed.
>> No, I assume it was a I assume it was
money. Um I assumed that, you know,
YouTube cut and Google cut a bigger
check. Let's um Agreed. I you know you
do wonder a little bit whether there's a
little bit of of conscious like and also
we would like to give this to YouTube in
order to not give it to Netflix in order
to not you know further the seeming
monopoly on Hollywood that uh Netflix is
expanding every day this morning. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> As we're recording the Paramount bid was
rejected by uh Warner Brothers
shareholders or
>> no Warner Brothers board
>> Warner Brothers board recommended to the
Yeah. to reject um which was expected
but um
>> it it's that seems to be inching closer
towards Netflix. So you know I who will
know who like ever know if there was a
you know a little bit of lean towards
one offer or another but um I I
certainly thought of that
>> it does feel like the streaming wars are
boiling down to a a a death struggle
between YouTube and Netflix. Obviously
there are plenty of other places that
are going to draw eyeballs. Disney Plus
is not going anywhere right
>> in the world or in my home. But
>> these are really the two big competitors
and you know obviously Instagram and Tik
Tok have something to say about that too
but those are two two platforms that are
not in pursuit of things like the
Academy Awards. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> And so
>> they are short form. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> And in terms of longer please actually
watch this for more than five minutes.
Yes. And I guess YouTube's gambit here
is that this is just a huge advertising
play, you know, and that time spent and
the way that they'll be able to
integrate advertising and you know that
thing that we talked about earlier this
week where it was like why is the Oscars
not just a way station for the premiere
of every single new trailer?
>> Well, that's already what YouTube is on
a daily basis. It's the place we go to
to look at trailers and we will get to
one momentarily. So I that this all
feels very logical.
>> Yeah. I wonder how it will integrate
into YouTube TV and whether it's part of
like a strategic play to though to elevate.
elevate.
>> Yeah, but like would they have their own
channel? You know, I like we are a
YouTube TV household as well. >> Um,
>> Um,
>> but are they just going to then like
portal me over to Is this is are they
trying to wean me off cable further by this?
this?
>> How about this? What if there was an
Oscars channel on YouTube TV?
>> Oh wow.
>> You know, I mean that's the kind of
thing that you could do with these kinds
of rights. So, it's a 4-year license.
This starts at the 101st Academy Awards,
which means the 100th will be the last
one on ABC television. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Which just pure gut check. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Just be be real with me. Yeah. Okay.
>> Are we there?
>> Will we be making this show? >> Oh.
>> Oh. >> Oh,
>> Oh,
>> at this at the first ever YouTube
Academy Awards,
>> a lot of people you got to talk to about
that one that aren't me right now. Um,
let's see. Beatles movies.
What year is that again? For Swag. So
that's 2028.
>> So 2029 is the year that the Beatles
movies would be eligible.
>> And I've said we got to hold on one way
or another, but I'm going to have to get
my business degree, you know. Yeah. And
then a lot of Yeah, that's coming very shortly.
shortly.
>> Maybe you can go.
>> You're taking the speed test, right?
>> Yeah. It's the Kim Kardashian lawyer in
business school at home. Okay, great.
>> Um, and maybe I'll throw a JD in there
as well, you know, just to really
represent our interest fully.
>> But we have I I have said at least that
we got to hold on at least through the
Sam Mendy's Beatles movies,
>> like hold on to the to our lives like or
to this this this show.
>> Both. We I Well, we just need a place to
put our feelings, you know? Like I
haven't done this for as long as we've
been doing this to not have a platform
to talk about these four guys as Beatles
and Sam Mendy's making four movies.
>> That makes me want to cancel the show so
that you have to go on IG live when the
movies come out and like respond to
people asking questions for 17 hours.
>> Who says I won't do that?
>> You might do it regardless. You might do
it regardless. Uh,
>> so but anyway, that's April 7th, 2028,
and they would be eligible for the first
YouTube Oscars
>> hosted by Joseph Quinn.
>> That means those movies are going to be out
out
less than a month after the 100th
Academy Awards. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> And in honor of that, I'll be watching
all 100 telecasts consecutively, and I'm
really excited about that. And I'll be
streaming it on Twitch. Um, any other
thoughts on this? I mean, this is just
>> tectonic news. It is. It is huge news.
The the the earth under our uh feet is moving.
moving.
>> Is are you surprised?
>> Uh no. When you when you when you when
you calm down, it's incredibly logical.
>> Yeah. I think I wasn't I wasn't
surprised. I was like, "Oh, they got
it." Like, "Oh, you know, it's a little
bit of
>> it. It's YouTube flexing and being like,
"Yes, we are in fact YouTube." And you
you guys have all been in a panic about
all your other little stuff and where
your movies are going to go and and then
here we are. I genuinely like that it is
broadcast by a company that is not
actually making movies. I think there is
something coherent about that and that's
really never been the case. So, um
anyway, I think it's a good thing. Yeah.
All right. I mentioned trailers. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> We were trying to figure out last week
with Joanna the name of the Steven
Spielberg film. Was it Disclosure and
was it a remake of the Michael Kiteon
adaptation from the 1990s about sexual
harassment in the workplace? Was it
Disclosure Day? It was in fact
disclosure day. Yes. Trailer hit. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> This is in fact
>> some kind of alien invasion thriller
starring Emily Blunt and Josh Oconor.
>> What did you think of the trailer?
>> Josh Oconor forever. Put him at number
three. I enjoyed his SNL hosting.
>> Oh, I didn't see any of that.
>> I I just I just watched some clips. It
was just mostly him in in sweaters or
giggling, you know. Um
>> it's nice.
>> Just just a big fan. Speaking of
sweaters, I'm really sorry, but like is
this Come to Garson Garson sweater new. It's
It's
>> actually quite old. I just remembered I
have it.
>> Okay. But like it's new in the rotation,
right? I clocked it during talking about
like the future of Hollywood. And I was
like, "Excuse me, Sean. Did we go
shopping without me?"
>> Okay. Thank you. Um
>> we've never been shopping together.
>> That's really not true. And in fact, I
picked the navy jacket, the barn jacket
that you pick out all the time. I picked
out for you.
>> I had brought it with me today. You're
welcome. Anyway, um,
pro Josh Oconor, pro Steven Spielberg.
Uh, I'm I'm open to this.
>> Um, I thought it was an absolutely
thrilling trailer. I am astonished that
a 70-year-old man would make a movie
this big.
>> Keeps happening. Ridley Scott did this
twice with Gladiator 2 in the Last Duel.
We just saw Martin Scorsese make Killers
of the Flower Moon.
>> Um, this is a a tre, you know, Francis
Forcopol and Megalopoulos. Yeah,
>> this is a trend that is happening now.
Um, the film obviously is very much in
the succession of stories like this that
he has been making over the years from
Close Encounters of the Third Kind to ET
to War of the Worlds.
The sound design of this trailer is
incredible in terms of what is happening
to Emily Blunt's voice in the opening
moments. And I'm very excited. There are
a few images that are CGI created that
don't look good. And I'll just be honest
about that. There's one shot in
particular near the end of the trailer
where we see a young girl and a I
believe it's a moose. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And a bird
>> and they are standing before a
>> It looks It looks a little bit more like
a shot from Robert's Mex's here than you
want it to.
>> It does. Or like an AI Hallmark card. Um
so I didn't love that. But everything
that was clearly practically done, for
example, the car chase moment that they
show us very briefly looks incredible.
So, I'm hoping that it's more of that
and less of the former. Okay.
>> But, um, I'm fired up. An original
summer blockbuster about aliens from
Steven Spielberg, June 12th. Good stuff.
>> Put it in the calendar. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Do you think we'll be doing the podcast then?
then?
>> Uh, gosh, I hope so. I sure hope so.
>> Okay. Speaking of blockbusters, it's
time to talk about Fire Nash.
>> Okay. Now,
huh, this is interesting. So, new film
directed by Cameron, of course, written
by Cameron, Rick Jaffa, and Amanda
Silver. Um, shot by Russell Carpenter
again. As always, the film stars Sam
Worththington and Zoe Salana. Sigourney
Weaver is back. Steven Lang is back.
Kate Winslet is back. Introducing Una
Chaplan, Jack Champion is back in the
movie. The log line for Fire and Ashes.
A year after settling in with the Met
Cayena clan, Jake and Nati's family
grapples with grief after Netam's death.
That's their son. They encounter a new
aggressive Na'vi tribe, the Manguan
clan, also called the Ash People, led by
the fiery tribe leader, Verang, who is
allied with Jake's enemy, Koritch, as
the conflict on Pandora, escalates to
devastating consequences.
>> Okay, great. Great summary.
>> Those are great news.
>> Did you write that yourself?
>> I did not.
>> Okay. Um, we saw this film together.
>> We did.
>> Uh, we saw this I met I got there uh
right on time and you'd saved me a seat,
but we were sitting one row back from
the whole Ringer verse clan
>> even though there were seats next to
them in the row in front and I wanted to
ask you what that was about.
>> I was there before most of those people
and I also thought that that whole row
was taken and then so I had to save you
a seat but in fact it was not taken.
>> Um I Well, I appreciate it.
>> There was nothing against them. I spent
the entire 30 minutes that I was there
before the movie started talking to Van
and Joy.
>> I mean, as did I once I arrived, but I
just, you know, so so they were there.
Um, and they were they were with us but
apart. Um,
>> yeah. And they they had a different
experience watching the movie from you. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um,
>> Um,
what did you think?
>> Uh, it's a no for me, Doc. Like it's
it's respectfully the experiment has run
out. Not
>> here. Okay. All right. Let's be real.
Let's let's respect First time ever
you're going to be honest on the podcast
finally. I've been waiting years for you
to just speak your truth.
>> James Cameron uh is a legend and good at
making movies and technically I still
think that these movies are incredible
and they look so much better than all
the other CGI slop and all of the other
you know animated like the created
worlds that we see on screen. It is a
completely different league. You watch a
movie like this and then you get mad
that you have to go back and watch a
Marvel movie or you know Super Mario's
like whatever that just doesn't there
are like the technical craft achievement
>> undeniable. It looks really really good.
I do not care about these characters in
part because I think this story is such
a retread of the last one
>> and so bogged down in its and so
infatuated with its own ideas that it
loses like basic pacing and plotting and
communication of who these people are.
So, in the end, it was just uh big Jim
and all of his toys, computers, and guns
together, and I just wasn't involved. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. I think I share the same
criticism, but that ultimately didn't
doesn't make me dislike the movie. I
think because I the highs in this movie
are so incredibly high relative to any
other blockbuster that's come out this
year that >> I
>> I
was swayed often enough to come out
liking it. I do not feel as positively
about this movie as The Way of Water.
Even though this movie might have higher
highs, I don't think it's as complete a
story as that movie was. And I I
completely agree with you about the very
odd decisions in the script to just
reiterate and replay moments from the
first film and in some cases beat
forbeat when I I don't you know we we
know that the the movies were originally
written to be one and they were split in half.
half.
>> We got to stop doing that.
>> I agree that
>> it's just that means that you haven't
finished editing the one movie that you
have. No, no, I mean like or the one
script that you have.
>> Yeah, I I agree with you. I But what's
so crazy about that is that so does that
mean if the films were together that
they would feature together incidents
repeating themselves like particular
sieges on ships that happened in the
third act of this film which feel very
similar to sieges on ships in the in the
second Avatar film?
>> No, I think I mean it would be that you
have to make choices, you know, and that
you aren't doing things again or doing
it even bigger. And there are just
really no there are no no choices, no
cuts made in this movie. It's just like
let's do this again and let's do this
again and let's do it bigger.
>> Okay. So, let me speak specifically. I
think I said this to you and Mallerie
immediately after the film that
>> the film is a a bit of a complex thing
to digest because it's 3 hours and 14
minutes. It's even longer than the last
film which was quite long as the
listeners of our watch along pod know.
And you will get a high high moment. And
there's a high high moment in the first
act where the family Nati and Jake and
their children are trying to leave the
Met Cyena clan and they they're going to
take these kind of like uh jellyfish
dragons that are transporting them around
around
>> and they're trying to get Spider away
from the Medina clan and away from Kor
being able to find them, his his father,
you know, uh who's been hunting for him
since the second film. And there's a
battle sequence with the ash people on
these jellyfish dragons. I don't know
what they're called. I apologize to
those who know the lore and anthropology
of the world of Pandora.
>> And it is just absolute 10 out of 10
Cameronian mania. Like just really
exciting action, great staging. It's all
very coherent. So many movies like this
and maybe because so much of this work
is done in in um in post but as you see
in the materials like going behind the
scenes like they are actually using real
rigs, real environments to design and
execute on a lot of these sequences and
then after that sequence which is very dramatic.
dramatic.
movies just slow down a lot and they
really take their time letting the
characters sit inside the sadness or the
alienation or the isolation that they
all experience. They all get kind of
spread apart and then the film kind of
>> sets out to hopefully reunite the family
over the course of the film, but he
isn't really comfortable sitting in that
anguish. And the movie slows down a lot
multiple times and it just kind of
messes with the pacing, you know? Oh, it
just it just it's just draggy.
>> And there's just there are also some
logistical issues. I don't know where
everyone is once they're all separated. And
And
>> I personally don't remember who all of
the characters are with enough detail
>> in order to, you know, you're you're
figuring it out as you go along, but you
separate all these people
>> because you're Na'vi racist. You think
they all look the same.
>> That's so true. for a million dollar.
Our friend Michael Ascer sent us a tweet
that was like, "For a million dollars,
can you name three of these people?" And
you did, but it took you a little while.
>> I was just busy. I wasn't able to
respond to that quickly. My guy Loach,
huge movie for Lo for the Loach heads,
>> right? Um
>> and for Pyon
>> Red, I guess. Yeah. Though I honestly
don't remember. Are they redeemed in the
end? I This is the thing. I just like
>> I don't remember what happens. I I
watched this movie and because like
they're all separated and
>> I saw it two weeks ago.
>> Well, but they're also there's not
there's not a lot of de development.
They they all get put in different places
places
>> and the point is just they like got to
get back together and then fight a lot
with guns. And I
>> well I think one of the reasons why and
one of the flaws of the movie to me is
because there's more emphasis in this
movie on Spider who is the human who has
become a kind of adopted member of the
family who's played by Jack Champion and
who is put in I think at a tough spot in
this movie early on in the film. He's
really in peril
>> and he is revived in a kind of magical
way by Giri the Sigourney Weaver character.
character.
>> That's um you went to the bathroom for that.
that.
>> Yes. But I'm I'm aware that that happened.
happened.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you like didn't
really get the full like extent of
what's going on. But that's an it's an
incredible Sigourney Weaver like
>> pretending to have a Na'vi orgasm. Like
it was
>> it was unreal. Van in front of me was
just like what is happening? And then I
like and I was like sitting in the aisle
by myself being like I need someone. It
goes on and on and on cuz she connects
to the spirit tree.
>> I was in the bathroom for like 98
seconds. I and it but it experientially
it goes on for a while and there's like
a lot of swaying and you're like
>> what's wrong with a prolonged orgasm
just out of curiosity?
>> No, I I think that that's great and I
would remind you that Kiri is like a
teenager and it is Sigourney waver but
not me years like how does that work developmentally?
developmentally?
>> I'm not going to insert myself into
that. So we you know she's a 70-year-old
woman like it's okay
>> right that's I know that's true and it's
I'm glad you know life goes on and women
you know
sexual health at all ages and that's
really really important you know
>> I'm not done talking about Na'Vi sex
just for the record on this episode I've
got a lot more on this
>> you know we've made movement on perry
menopause and menopause but it's just
>> there's a there's a world and a life beyond
beyond
>> I'm I'm I'm getting ready to talk about
Verang. Just wait for that.
>> Yeah, I we will we'll talk about it.
It's really long and I still this is
another thing like I I don't understand
the rules of the spirit tree. I don't
feel that the logic
>> and uh world of Pandora are effectively communicating.
communicating.
>> Cinema Sins Dobbins concerned about the
logic of Pandora.
>> Well, I I turned to you at the beginning
of this movie. What did I ask you?
>> I don't remember. What did you say? I
asked you if Pandora was real.
>> Oh, yeah. That's right.
>> And you were like,
>> "Yeah, you did."
>> No, but what I was trying to ask you
was, "Is P Pandora real?"
>> You were like, "Is it a state of mind or
is it
>> is it a real place in the universe of in
the like world of
>> step back and think about what your job
is?" Is an insane question to ask having
watched two films about the planet
Pandora where all of the action takes
place. I've told you that a lot of this
this sci-fi mumbo jumbo often goes over
my head and I do often think that it's
>> when it's when it is legibly and clearly
stated and
>> you can put like where I can put my arms
my brain around it then I like I do
think that's evidence of good
storytelling but if it's too complicated
or if it's just too
>> if it requires like too many flights of
fancy I do begin to fit all like forget
all the bits and bobs.
>> I hear what you're saying. I think that
these movies are very much a go with it
experience and you kind of have to go
with it. Very few people in their lives
will be asked to speak for one hour
consecutively about a movie they saw two
weeks ago. We have a very odd job.
>> But with that in mind, ironically,
relative to what you're saying, these
movies are very simple. You know, the
what the the plotting and the arcs are
very simple. It's like a father who
wants to reunite with his son, another
father grieving his son, this the
preservation of the ecology of this
planet, you know, aquatic life and the
mystery therein and how we protect that
life. All these themes and ideas are all
the same in all these business.
>> But when you slow it down and stretch it
out, you give people more time to be
like, okay, so why is she allowed to
connect to the tree right now, but she
can't before? Why can't they just
connect to the tree all the time? Like
why is only she connecting to the tree?
Like it there's there's lots of
>> Why is Hillary Clinton not working on
this right now? Why is she not
explaining to us the tree logic of Pandora?
Pandora?
>> The Kit Winslet character is like not
not Hillary Clinton.
>> She isn't. She's surprisingly not in the
film very much. I had been led to
believe she was a significant part of
this series and I would not describe it
as such. The person who is a significant
part of this series
>> is the actress Una Chaplan. Yeah. the
granddaughter of Charlie Chaplan,
perhaps best known for her work on Game
of Thrones in the early seasons.
>> I figured out what I knew her from,
which was another I spent another 10
minutes being like, "What's she in?
What's she in?" But like at a respectful
volume, we were in the back of the
theater and you didn't know. I was She
was The Wife on the Hour.
>> Oh, that's right. Yes. The Dominic West
series. Yes. And Roma. Um
>> great. She's a great actress and she
does something that I think really truly
only Zoe Salana has been able to do
which is to become
real in a way to actually convey a a
kind of personality through the Na'vi.
Um, I think Sigourney Weaver does good
work. Sam Warthingington does good work
in these movies. Steven Lang does good
work. But Verang, who is the leader of
the Ash people tribe, >> who,
>> who,
>> you know, for sort of like, I guess
classically doineering survivalist
reasons, wants to be the only surviving
Na'vi tribe,
>> um, attacks all of its
>> I guess genealological competitors. And
so they are at this kind of war.
>> Well, didn't they get burned out of
their home? And so now they need other homes.
homes.
>> Yes. Right.
>> Um but you know, but it was sort of the
way in which they pursue that is a little
little
>> type the fire. We discovered the fire,
but then it ruined us. And I was like,
I'm not really sure what you're trying
to stay say stay here. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And then
Yeah. Then they've just become
>> they're in pursuit of violent conflict.
Yeah. And they're they're they're trying
to take over as much of Pandora as they
possibly can, even though they're a
relatively small tribe based on what we
see. Nevertheless, they become the big
bads of the movie or at least the first
half of the movie. And Verang, >> um,
>> um,
she's she's very sexy. I don't know what
to say. She's a very alluring,
>> hips forward Na'vi.
>> Uh, she all like all the Na'vi a little
skinny. Where are the fat Na'vi? That's
a really good question.
>> They don't exist. And like the body
image in Avatar is not what one would want.
want.
>> That's interesting. I hadn't thought
about that.
>> It's not good. We're back to
>> there must be someone
>> quote unquote heroin chic. There aren't
>> but someone in Pandora who just like
eats too many Cheezits. You know who's
>> they don't have Cheezits because they're
in touch with the uh you know natural
world and also Jim Cameron is a vegan
and so he's against processed foods.
>> That's right. That's right.
>> Um well nevertheless Vang she's got it
like that and uh Cororic notices. Yeah.
and Cororic, who is, you know, in
pursuit of Spider and Jake Sully and he
wants to capture Jake, his mortal enemy,
and and bring his son home.
>> Uh, he falls in with Vang. And there's
an incredible sequence in this movie.
>> Oh, this part's really good
>> where she tempts him into a tent and he
thinks he's in the power position and
then she gets him to snort what I guess
is Na'vi PCP.
PCP. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> And he begins hallucinating. And then in
his hallucination, the film turns into
this psychedelic seduction. >> And
>> And
>> it was very cool.
>> It's a It's a great moment in the movie.
>> I thought it was very funny. I was entertained.
entertained.
>> It's very amusing. And it is very much
like James Cameron, you know, child of
the 60s
>> letting his freak flag fly, you know,
going back to his hippie days of
experimenting. It's documented that he
was a hippie and on and
>> I think he was a he was a
>> he seems a little freak to
>> he was definitely like an erector set
science guy for sure but I think he also
was like a let his freak flag fly guy
you know like
>> this guy was married to Linda Hamilton
and Kathern Bigalow like he could he
knew what he was doing
>> totally but like this is not a man who
to me seems like he's ready to let the
spirits take over now like which and
it's like it's like a take one to no one situation
situation
>> but he might want to plug into that tree
now it's more spirit spiritual rather
than is experimental with others.
>> So you think he's like a Iaska type guy?
Well, see, I felt like the the the the
verang coke was more like Iawaska. Like
that was what it was meant to induce.
Whereas the tree is this like I'm
connecting with with a greater god, you
know, something beyond me. And that's
the polarity I think of the boomer. You
know, the boomer is kind of stuck
between is it god or is it the devil?
And these are the two representations.
This film is incredibly deep as an
exploration of
>> I was just shaking my head at boomers,
you know, like it's it's just it's not
where I want.
>> They really won't.
>> They will not let go. It's just very
boring. Um, yeah, that was a good scene.
It's like there are amusing parts of it,
but I think we've made it what, 75
minutes into the movie.
>> Yeah. And that's the thing is that Vang
is extremely um hostile and intense and
she's a great villain. She she's she's
you really hate her. You really, you
know, despite my my attraction to her,
she's she's evil and she she's attacking.
attacking.
>> You don't hate her. She is like the classical
classical
villain that you're like turned on by
and you're like, "No, I maybe
that's the person that I want to spend
the most time with.
>> Right. And but then when she enters
Koritch's atmosphere, he kind of just
like blotss her out a lot. Yeah. And
then she becomes a part of his story and
she gets like less dialogue. Let's she
becomes less powerful and the film
really takes a big dip into the second
act. I think once you get like roughly
an hour, hour 20 minutes into the movie,
a there is a lot of action and a lot of
stuff that transpires that is
interesting. Um, you know, our guy Pyon,
the whale does go on trial at a certain
point. He gets railroaded by the whale
jury and
>> you know, it's like straight out of the
hurricane. You know, it's like he was
not there that night. Like he he's not
guilty. You have to free Pyakon. You
should not be imprisoning him. He is a
he is a whale who
>> deserves to swim in the ocean freely and
not be outcast by his own people. And uh
you know, a lot of parallels there with
how Loach feels inside of his own
family, you know, and that's his spirit guide.
guide.
>> And that's literalized. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh I liked the whale council. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> That that was funny. I didn't
understand. Then once again,
uh Pyakon is exiled and then there are
other whales that he's talking to, but
like I didn't know he goes far away and
I didn't know who else was talking to him.
him.
>> It's a fair point. We don't really
because the Tolkun don't really speak
English. It's a little hard to know like
where they are and where they're going.
>> It's not It's I don't mind subtitles.
I'm not Chris Ryan. It's just that
>> it I it was not made clear who the other whales
whales
>> and then he just like has to go away to
come back. I like I didn't understand
what the point of the journey was.
Uh, I I think it's that I think it's
just that classical thing where a
character needs to um experience exile
and isolation in order to come back even
stronger and save the day, which is
something that you see in a lot of
Cameron movies. One of the reasons why I
think the movie is struggling a bit is that
that
>> this is actually despite his long and
historic career, something Cameron's
never done before,
>> he's never made a third movie
>> in a series. And he definitely has not
made three consecutive movies in a
series before. He's made Aliens, which
is magnificent, but he did not make
Alien. The extension of a story, he
seems to be like a little flumxed with
how to keep it going. And I think a lot
of your criticisms are are down to that
or sort of like I built this world.
Okay. I got all this cool stuff in my
world, but then even in terms of the Ash
people, like he just doesn't really
fully explore that stuff. Like we don't
really get their world. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> For the last hour and a half of the
movie. And I I thought that there was
going to be like a big conclusive fight
on a volcano >> m
>> m
>> to end the movie. And that's not what we
It's another battle on the water in the
third act.
>> It is true that this is a film titled
fire and ash
>> and there's very little fire and almost
no ash.
>> Where's all this ash?
>> It's in the water.
>> It's [ __ ] It's up's nose,
>> I guess. So that's true.
>> Got that booger ash. Um, I I did like a
lot of the the submarine subterranean
stuff in the movie, especially the crazy
attacking squids that play a big role in
>> those. You chuckled a lot when they
showed up.
>> That was just like maniac camera action
stuff that I was loving. There are
moments where I was delighted during
this movie. But I can't disagree with a
lot of what you're saying in terms of
what doesn't really functionally work
that well about it. Um, but I also do
like it as this crazy man's
representation of like all of his
interests at this stage of his life. I
think there's something cool about that.
And like also as like just clearly as a
father and somebody who spent way too
much time at work,
>> he's like he's going through it with the
way that Jake Sully had his relationship
to Lok to Spider, you know, to Kiri to
like who belongs in the clan and who
doesn't, who's getting his time, who
doesn't. Should you be more of an
authoritarian leader and father? Should
you be softer and warmer to your
children? Like this feels autobiographical,
autobiographical,
does it not?
>> I guess. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> No, it does. But I was literally just
trying to be like, okay, so Jake, he
tries to like ditch Spider somewhere
>> and he tries to kill him. I mean, he he
he he lines up to to to sacrifice him
>> and then they say, "No,
>> course." Yeah. I I was just thinking
more about how the the moms were
entirely sidelined until the very end
where um spoiler alert Kate Winslett's
character who's been pregnant for all of
two films. I'm not really sure like what
>> 27 years. That's the gestation period on Pandora.
Pandora.
>> Takes 27 years to get
>> How long is a year on Pandora though? >> Well,
>> Well, uh
uh
>> there you go, Mr. Science. Time is
meaningless and yet it controls us
anyway. The quote remind me from one battle.
battle. >> Um
>> Um
I don't it's Yeah, time doesn't exist
anyway. Anyway, thank you.
>> Uh so she has a classic, you know, I'm
I'm dying, but I got to give life to
this baby first because that's like what
true mamas do moment. And then Natiri
who has been nowhere for the whole movie
which sucks shows up and is like okay I
will you know preside over this most
like holy act of woman warriorhood which
is you pushing out a baby which like
true or whatever and then Kate Winslet
>> out which is disappointing. It is a you
got this mama movie in a lot of ways. As
much as it is a dad in crisis movie,
it's also a you got this mama movie.
>> That's beautiful.
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>> I half jokingly, but maybe quite
seriously tweeted the movie is a soft
remake of uh John Ford's drums along the Mohawk.
Mohawk. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> I don't know why that hit my mind, but
it is true. And there is a certain kind
of a movie about
>> invaders of a native land and one group
wants to fight for their independence
and then the loyalists want to retain
the colonial pride in the crown. And in
that movie on the New York frontier, the
loyalists cons conscript the uh Native
American people on that land to fight
alongside them against the revolutionaries.
revolutionaries.
Um, I think that's a pretty clever,
smart idea for like a war movie inside
of this modern time. Like, I think it it
works and it makes sense. It's something
that you see like in foreign conflicts
all the time in 2025, too. So, like
that's an aspect of the movie that I
thought was smart that I like the idea
of Vang and her crew like joining the
humans and being and that there's a
confrontation with Cororic and um Edie
Falco's general character, you know,
when when the fire people, the ash
people come back to the human base that
is very amusing. Edie Falco is in a lot
of this movie. Yeah. More than I
expected. Um she looks at some
transparent screens and yells a lot.
>> Right. And she's also in one of the
>> She has a power loader.
>> Is she Is that the power loader in this
movie though or is that just in Way of
Water? And I remember
>> this movie as well. I think so. Um
>> a a lot of Jermaine Clement, you know,
uh and he has a surprisingly heroic
redemption arc in this movie in the way
that he Yeah. and and and works to free
imprison Na'vi.
I don't I think this movie is pretty cool.
cool.
>> I think I think that's fine. It's it is
a real your mileage may vary situation
and it's clear that Big Jim is having a
great time
>> and you had a great time. I think Van
Lean had a great time.
>> He stood and clapped at the end of the
film. Yeah.
>> So like if you're into three hours of
just all out
like machine gun battle sequences
between madeup people and sometimes a
beautiful sea creature and sometimes
some psychedelic experiences, then
you'll have a great time. I don't think
that this movie
like the other like the other two has
genre like you know transcending
I'm going to the movies to have a good
time thing that the first Avatar and the
sec and even way of water it's something
you've never really seen before which
you have in this movie and there is something
something
like experiential
where this is more like, oh, look, he
transform in the way.
>> I can't disagree with you. It's only
been 3 years since The Way of Water and
there's not a lot that is particularly
new here. So, you have to really enjoy
these movies, I think, to enjoy this. I
think you do. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um,
>> Um,
do you think that there will be a fourth
and fifth? Well, how much just ballpark
how much money you think this will make?
I mean, I guess we know it's going to
crack a billion internationally
worldwide just because of how things
work. But the last one made over two
>> 2.34 billion. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
I guess 1.8.
1.8.
>> I feel like it's going to be lower than that.
that.
>> You do? I do. Okay.
>> Because of all of the things that you're
citing and I don't know if you'll get as
many repeat viewings because it is very
long. I don't I don't remember what the
Christmas competition was in 2022. I
guess we could look that up.
>> There are not
>> this is the this is the big fish for
sure this weekend,
>> but there are a lot of movies coming out
in the next week or so.
>> Marty Supreme, The Housemaid, I just saw
Song Blue and I've added it to the
calendar. Be interviewing the director
cuz I really liked it. Um,
>> you know, there's a bunch of stuff
coming out over the course of the next
week or so that is will be chipping into
this at least domestically over that
time. So, I'm curious. I'm going to say
1.6. Okay. And then 1.6. Would that be a
failure? I don't really know. I'm not
really sure how to think about it. I
would be surprised if Cameron, who's 71,
came back for four and five,
>> right? He's already taking on other
things. He's been talking a lot about
The Ghost of Hiroshima.
>> Um, he co-directed a movie with Billy
Isish, which I've seen a lot of trailers
for while getting uh Yeah. My nails done.
done. >> Nice.
>> Nice.
>> And you watch that? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Great. I mean, there there's
footage in the trailer of James Karen
and Billy Isish interacting and I like,
Sure, sign me up. Yeah, why not? Uh, but
it it would seem that he's interested in
things outside of the Na'vi right now.
>> I want to talk about whether or not this
film is going to get nominated for best
picture, but I think we should talk
about the short list first.
>> We should because the short lists, you
know, do shed some light.
>> They do. And and Avatar Fire and Ash did
get shortlisted, I believe, in four
categories. So, it's not as though it
was not represented, but you know, we're
recording this on a Wednesday, so
yesterday the short lists were announced
in 12 categories.
>> Um, this is the first year for the best
casting academy award, which is really
exciting. I think it might be worthwhile
to spend 20 or 30 minutes in February
breaking this down really this category,
what makes sense about it. But, um,
>> just high level, uh, Sinners and Wicked
for Good both were shortlisted eight
times. This is not necessarily a
a
a signpost that these movies are going
to dominate, but it doesn't hurt to be
shortlisted in all these categories. Um,
Frankenstein got six short listings.
>> Also, not really surprising.
>> The surprising one was Serat. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> Surat was shortlisted five times. Now,
>> Surat, which I think I saw in August.
>> Um, and have you seen it yet?
>> No, not yet.
>> Okay. So, you haven't seen it yet? I
mean, I It sounds like we should.
>> No, we're going to do it. It's I mean
it's number one on my list. It just it
was a very quick qualifying run and so I
I hope they'll start making it more available.
available.
>> Yeah. I mean it certainly seems like
people in the academy are watching it
because it's shown up in a bunch of
places here. A couple of other quick uh
reflections before we get into the
specific categories themselves.
>> Um Jay Kelly not in casting or
cinematography. It does feel like Jay
Kelly is DOA right now. >> Agree.
>> Agree.
>> And now I'm nervous about Adam Sandler.
I yeah I you were very confident about
that on the Adam Sandler or Jay Kelly
pod and I just don't really think that
it's going to happen because that's such a
a
>> Jacob Allian Paul Meccoll
>> so for it's for sure Benio Del Toro
Shawn Penn Stellin Scarsgard
I think Meascll's in and
>> and it would have probably have to be a
Lordy in that spot. >> Um
>> Um
>> okay that's annoying. Anyway, I I I
really I thought Jardi was great, but
>> uh Dely Lindo last minute.
>> It's possible. Certainly possible. I
think we're I think that we'll get into
this when we get into best picture power
and things. Interesting sinners moment
right now. Yes.
>> Interesting sinners moment. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Um couple of other things.
>> Uh Wake Up Dead Man in just score. So,
that's not a good sign for Wake Up Dead
Man more broadly. Although, it seems
like people are really liking that
movie, which is cool. Um seems to be
veryable movie.
>> It is. Uh
>> once again, Josh Oconor,
>> he's a man. Um, I would encourage people
to listen to the Ryan Johnson interview
if they liked it. He's really
>> he's incredibly insightful. Um, and if
you liked it, I think he's really good
at explaining why he made certain
choices in the movie.
>> So, the the arguably the biggest thing
that's happening here
>> is that it doesn't seem like
Searchlight's going to have a movie in
best picture. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, The Testament of Van Lee got nothing.
nothing.
>> And I don't know if
>> Yeah. which is, you know, which is a
bummer, but it is like a
>> it's a I guess it's a polarizing movie.
We all quite liked it. Um, like I said,
I saw a tremendous number of Italian
people walking out of it in Venice. A
friend of ours texted me this week. I
was just like, I hated that. And it's
just and and said they just aren't my taste.
taste.
>> I get that. Oh,
>> which I which I get.
>> You mean Mona and Brady? Yeah, I get
that. But like the Brutalist had like
eight nominations. I mean, it was so
>> Sure. Well, one's about men and the
other is about women. So, uh, it's not
really surprising, but
>> yeah, you're right about that. It is the
It's not the testament of Jim Lee. Yeah.
>> It's the testament of Ann Lee.
>> Uh, so Ann Lee,
>> God, I hope Amanda Ciphford is
nominated. She is extraordinary in that
movie. But
>> I I I don't think that movie is really
competing for best picture. We talk
about it. Rental Family is also not
recognized here. Is this thing on? Not recognized.
recognized.
>> So, since 2010, every year except 2016,
Search Light has had a movie in best
picture. And the only reason it didn't
have a movie in 2016 is because they
acquired Birth of a Nation and then Nate
Parker, you know, was entrenched in that
scandal and then that movie kind of got erased
erased
>> and that was a movie that coming out of
Sundance, people were like, well, this
is clearly a best picture contender. So
you were looking at an unbroken run of
16 years of Academy Award and prior to
that, they missed in 2009, but prior to
that, they had a bunch going way back.
So I mean Searchlight is as as
significant an Oscar player over the
last 30 years as SPC, as Miramax, as all
of those companies.
>> It's a big thing.
>> Yeah. But I think you know you are
seeing like a regime change. How many is
Neon going to have this year? What
>> at least three?
>> Yeah, it looks like three, maybe four,
>> right? and and mostly because they just
go to festivals and buy up all the
international films and are running the
table with that
>> and and and them shifting into that
international flare and all of these
movies, you know, even though um Rental
Family is a film that takes place in
Japan and The Testament of Anne Lee has
a kind of foreign component. You know,
these are American productions by and
large. Um and that stuff is not as
powerful. You know, the wake up dead
mans are not as powerful at the Academy
Awards that as they would have been 25
years ago. It's interesting. It's just
notable. Um, it doesn't mean that the
studios like DOA or anything. I think
that that what I think specifically what
Search Light has done for American
movies over the last 25 years is really
good and I hope they get their mojo back
with this sort of thing. And we love Dan
Lee. I'm glad that they picked it up. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> But it's a shame that it's not
recognized here. Okay, let's go into a
couple of the categories. Um, casting. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> I'll read the names really quickly for
the listeners so they know.
Frankenstein, Hamnit, Marty Supreme, One
Battle After Another, The Secret Agent,
Sentimental Value, Sinners, Serat,
Weapons, and Wicked for Good. It's 10
films shortlisted for five spots.
>> It's cool.
>> Interesting mix. Weapons is a shock. I'm
really happy about it. I wonder what
that tells us about how strong Weapons
is right now.
>> Yeah. Or I wonder what that tells us
about how strong Amy Madigan is. >> Agreed.
>> Agreed. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Could be very strong,
>> which is exciting.
>> It is exciting. Um, she is uh hustling
quite a bit. I think Mikey Madison did
like presented a screening of weapons
recently, which is interesting. Um,
Serat being here is even crazier to me. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Serat, but no, no, no, it was just an
accident and no, no other choice >> is
>> is
>> but Sat in best casting.
>> I don't I guess Serat is really on the brain,
brain,
>> but that's what I'm saying. People like it.
it.
>> Yeah. Or it's sticking with them. I
mean, you know, it was also a surprise
at the Golden Globes. I think you're
right. Like that's it's the big
takeaways from this are Jay Kelly out
sarat in maybe not in best picture but
like start paying attention.
>> I know you haven't seen it but when you
see it you're going to be like how the
[ __ ] is this in?
>> Well listen people contain
>> I liked it like I liked it with some
issues but like it is not an academy
movie. Like I I'm kind of shocked but I
think it tells us something about how
this has all changed. Um any other
notables there? I feel like it's roughly
like seven to eight
>> best picture contenders in here. The
Secret Agent train confirmed for sure.
>> Yeah, that's a very good sign for Secret Agent.
Agent. >> Um,
>> Um,
>> we were on that last.
>> I think if Marty Supreme were not in
casting, it would be like a real siren,
like we're in trouble here. So, I'm glad
to see it.
>> Marty really only missed in sound. You
would have liked to have seen it in
sound for it to feel like really
powerful. But, um, okay, let's talk
about international features. So,
>> I'll read the list. I think it's 15
titles. Okay,
>> so the titles include from Argentina,
Bellen, from Brazil, The Secret Agent,
from France, it was just an accident.
From Germany, Sound of Falling from
India, Homebound, from Iraq, The
President's Cake, from Japan, Kokuho,
from Jordan, All That's Left of You from
Norway, Sentimental Value from
Palestine, Palestine, 36 from South
Korea, No Other Choice from Spain, Sarat
from Switzerland, Late Shift from
Taiwan, Left-Handed Girl, and from
Tunisia, The Voice of Hendra.
>> So, I I noted here that I've seen eight
of these.
>> Yeah, let me count.
>> There are a few more that I really would
like to see. I'd like to see Kokuo. I'd
like to see the president's cake. Um I'm
interested in Palestine 36. I'm
interested in Late Shift. But
>> I do think that the eight that I've seen
are going to be enough in terms of being
>> and I think even maybe seven would be
enough. And there is a world now with
the Serat strength that it's five neon movies.
movies.
>> Yeah. Which has been like solidifying
for the last couple months. And it it
was funny like in the summer they just
bought everything. What at can they?
>> Yeah, they at can they bought absolutely
everything and we all made these jokes
and then nothing was released for a while
while
and it seemed kind of quiet and like oh
maybe you know maybe this is a year for
maybe everything will stay like an
international feature and this will be a
more an American year. And it's it's
funny that
we now have we've been like we don't
have an anatomy of a fall, but like
maybe now we have three.
>> I I think you're right. I think you're
right. And it's I've been thinking back
on my like top 10 top 20 for this year
and why it feels chalky.
>> And I think one of the reasons why it
feels chalky is that
>> Cber Mendoza Filio like he never had a
movie distributed by Neon before, you
know, like Jafar Pani hasn't had a movie
distributed at this in this way. So like
movies like that that usually show up on
year end lists are usually small
international features. You know maybe
they get a Sony Pictures Classics or a J
a Janice to release them and they get
recognized and they get loved but they
don't get so widely seen.
>> These movies are getting really widely
sat getting widely seen. It's crazy
>> and neon is just absolutely going for
it. Like then no other choice in
particular they like they were hosting
like a summer intern uh contest. Did you
see they're doing like really gimmicky stuff?
stuff?
>> They invited 500 CEOs. screening.
screening.
It's really good. But they are
>> they have like taken a page out of the
Timothy Shalay playbook and the A24
playbook and are like really like okay
we're leaning into this. Um and and sort
of making these movies that we didn't
immediately think were pop pop through
their marketing.
>> 100%. It's worked really well. They're
obviously we saw it with Anora last
year. They know what they're doing.
really good at this and they are it's a
different strategy for them this year
than in years past where they have a lot
of eggs in a lot of baskets whereas like
A24 has Marty Supreme
>> that's their movie you know Netflix has
a lot of eggs in a lot of baskets
sometimes it's better to have a bunch of
movies sometimes it's better to just
focus on one we'll see what happens
>> best documentary not not a ton to dig
into we'll talk more about this category
when both of us have had a chance to
catch up on some of these I've seen the
major films The Perfect Neighbor um Uh,
Come See Me in the Good Light, Cover Up,
Apocalypse in the Tropics. I think My
Undesirable Friends Part One is like is
the best film, okay, on this list. Maybe
there with Cover Up and has won a couple
of critics prizes already. If
>> if you can see it, we should talk about
it. It is 5 hours long.
>> Um, it is it is it is an intense
durational portrait of Russian
journalists, dissident journalists.
>> Um, but it's a very it's a very good
film. Um, I don't know how many Academy
members will get through it. Okay. Well,
the you know the documentary Darians
that branch is uh
uh they like they're punishing.
>> They are. But then when everyone has to
vote, what happens is the question,
right? So they could nominate the film,
but then everyone would have to vote on
it. Uh no Predators on this list. No
Orwell 2 plus two equals 5, the R Peek
film. No put your soul in your hand and walk.
walk.
If it were left to the people at large,
I think The Perfect Neighbor is probably
in position to win since it's been such
a hit, but we shall see.
>> Uh, I just want to touch on
cinematography and music before we go. >> Right.
>> Right. >> So,
>> So,
>> I'll read the the short listed films.
Ballad of a small player, Beonia, Die My
Love, F1, Frankenstein, Hamnit, Marty,
Supreme, Newvel Vog, One Battle After
Another, Sentimental Value, Sinners,
Surat, Song Blue, Sound of Falling,
Train Dreams, Wicked for Good.
>> You haven't dipped into your F1 theory
on this episode and it's like
>> some signs.
>> It's not not happening.
>> Yeah. Facts, sound, song,
cinematography. Yeah, I do think this is
weird. I this this is a weird list. I
mean, not but yeah, but as you have
noted, no other choice. It was just an
accident and the secret agent like three
almost guaranteed best picture nominees
>> and No other choice in the secret agent
are gorgeously >> unbelievable
>> unbelievable
and then did like did not make it in.
And so you could say to that, okay, well
maybe the cinematographer branch is is
not really, you know, thinking
internationally. But then you have Serat
and Sound of Falling that did make it
>> very odd. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Very odd. Yeah.
>> And Song Blue, which is a good movie
that I liked. I just said that. I don't
want to rag on it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But no other choice not nominated. And
Song Blue nominate. Very
>> mean. Wicked for Good was shortlisted.
So, uh, what are you going to do?
>> Good point. Okay. Uh, best original song.
song.
>> Only one K-pop demon hunters. What are
we doing?
>> And two Wicked for Good.
>> What are we doing? What What is this
category? I don't I don't know.
>> I'm What is this category?
>> I don't know. This is bad.
>> These people are out of control.
>> DUAL LIA DOESN'T HAVE AN Oscar
>> and there's only one K-pop demon
hunters. Save yourselves. You were
handed this gift on a platter. You could
have nominated four songs. It could have
been a K-pop convention. This is It's
really stupid. These It's stupid. I also
don't even understand the rules
themselves because Testament of Anne Lee
is ineligible because they are based off
hymns, but Wicked for Good is an
original song.
>> These are two songs. Those are the
>> these songs were written for the movie.
They stink, but they were written for
the movie.
>> Right. Um >> Right.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. I I mean, we'll get to a similar
quagmire and score when we get there,
but you're right that there are a lot of
inconsistencies with these kinds of
rulings. Um,
I'll be rooting for
uh I Lied to You from Sinners. And
secondarily, I'll be rooting for Asive
as You Need Me to Be by 9in Nails, which
I listened to on the way to work today,
which is an absolute banger.
>> That's beautiful.
>> Thanks. Um, I do love Golden. Golden is
like my third or fourth favorite song on
that album. I've heard that album
probably more than any other album this year.
year.
>> But that's the thing. But it's
what an opportunity, you know, to have
like real songs that are part of the film.
film.
>> Yeah. In the top
>> that are wildly popular.
>> Amanda, you're 100% right.
>> And I just This is This has been a bad
category every year except for the one
year that they gave an Oscar to Lady
Gaga and Mark Ronson.
>> You're right. And you should say it.
>> I I do every year and nothing happens.
>> Let's dig into best score quickly.
>> Okay. Here are the nominees. Avatar Fire
or I should say the short listes. Avatar
Fire and Ash Beonia, Captain America:
Brave New World, Diane Warren,
Relentless, F1, Frankenstein, Hamnit,
Hetta, A House of Dynamite, Jay Kelly,
Marty Supreme, Nermberg, One Battle
After Another, Sinners, Serat, Train
Dreams, Tron Aries, Truth and Re Truth
and Treason, Wake Up Dead Man and Knives
Out Mystery, and Wicked. That's 20
films. Mhm.
>> I would like for you to perform the
Captain America: Brave New World score
for me right now.
>> I I don't know who composed it. I'll
happily look it up. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Um the composer of that score is Laura
Kartman. Um I think Laura Kartman, what
did she do? Did she She's a I think
she's previously an Oscar nominee. I'm
gonna look up what she was nominated
for. I can't remember what it was.
>> American Fiction,
>> which was a good score.
>> Oh, that's a good score.
>> Very different. A jazzy score. Yeah,
>> I'm going Nerburgg.
>> Have you seen it yet?
>> No, I'm I think Christmas Christmas Day.
>> I've got a screener at home.
>> No, I know. I saw it, too.
>> But it is over two hours. Yeah. No, I
clocked that
>> two hours of Russell Crow sitting
>> which I will watch.
>> I You just You really have to do the um
the coral or the corral screener needs
to be up because you don't have it yet.
>> You got to do a Nermberg the coral
double header.
>> Yeah. the se the 78-year-old Shawn
saunters into the Angelica on a Tuesday
at 2 PM. That's that's what those movies are. Nothing against them. Um
are. Nothing against them. Um >> this is Sinners versus One Battle, I
>> this is Sinners versus One Battle, I think. Uh but to Jack's point, I think
think. Uh but to Jack's point, I think Hamnet being here and the idea of
Hamnet being here and the idea of previously used music
previously used music >> from Max Richter appearing in the film
>> from Max Richter appearing in the film clearly didn't disqualify it. It is
clearly didn't disqualify it. It is eligible to be nominated. You know,
eligible to be nominated. You know, interesting. I think Ha getting a look
interesting. I think Ha getting a look here is notable. A movie that is
here is notable. A movie that is otherwise not really super represented.
otherwise not really super represented. House of Dynamite otherwise not really
House of Dynamite otherwise not really represented here.
represented here. >> Um, white wake up dead man we mentioned
>> Um, white wake up dead man we mentioned otherwise not represented. So, you know,
otherwise not represented. So, you know, some stuff here, some some warning
some stuff here, some some warning signs, some like this is always helpful,
signs, some like this is always helpful, I think, for both of us to be like, "All
I think, for both of us to be like, "All right, I got to watch this, this, and
right, I got to watch this, this, and this now."
this now." >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely. >> Um,
>> Um, >> that leads us to best picture power
>> that leads us to best picture power rankings.
rankings. >> Okay,
>> Okay, >> so
>> so the rankings today are brought to you by
the rankings today are brought to you by Scout Motors. And although it's not a
Scout Motors. And although it's not a film, we do want to give an honorable
film, we do want to give an honorable mention to their allnew Scout Terra and
mention to their allnew Scout Terra and Scout Traveler. Iconic in the 70s,
Scout Traveler. Iconic in the 70s, reimagined for tomorrow with plans for
reimagined for tomorrow with plans for advanced four-wheel drive. It'll be a
advanced four-wheel drive. It'll be a showstopper.
showstopper. >> Now, let's go through November 24th's
>> Now, let's go through November 24th's power rankings.
power rankings. >> Number 10 was The Secret Agent. Number
>> Number 10 was The Secret Agent. Number nine was Train Dreams. Number eight was
nine was Train Dreams. Number eight was Avatar Fire and Ash. Number seven was It
Avatar Fire and Ash. Number seven was It Was Just an Accident. Number six,
Was Just an Accident. Number six, Sentimental Value. Number five,
Sentimental Value. Number five, Frankenstein. Number four, Marty
Frankenstein. Number four, Marty Supreme. Number three, Sinners. Number
Supreme. Number three, Sinners. Number two, Hamnit. Number one, One Battle
two, Hamnit. Number one, One Battle After Another.
After Another. >> Okay,
>> Okay, >> now that list was pretty good. Yeah,
>> now that list was pretty good. Yeah, >> we might quibble with the ranking a
>> we might quibble with the ranking a little bit, but I
little bit, but I >> we're maybe only gonna have to strike
>> we're maybe only gonna have to strike one movie off the list and I don't even
one movie off the list and I don't even know about that
know about that >> or maybe two. We can discuss it.
>> or maybe two. We can discuss it. >> Okay, let's Where do you I think the
>> Okay, let's Where do you I think the Testament of Anley is has been quietly
Testament of Anley is has been quietly put to bed.
put to bed. >> I think is this is this thing on has
>> I think is this is this thing on has been quietly put to bed.
been quietly put to bed. >> Okay, so you're going through the
>> Okay, so you're going through the >> the outliers. I think a house of
>> the outliers. I think a house of dynamite is done.
dynamite is done. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah, >> I think rental family is done. Yes,
>> I think rental family is done. Yes, >> I think Springsteen is so done that we
>> I think Springsteen is so done that we can take it off completely. We don't
can take it off completely. We don't even have to mention those words
even have to mention those words anymore.
anymore. >> Though Jeremy Allen White did get a
>> Though Jeremy Allen White did get a nomination, a Golden Globe nomination
nomination, a Golden Globe nomination nomination.
nomination. >> That's Golden Globes Inc. uh holding on
>> That's Golden Globes Inc. uh holding on to their truths.
to their truths. >> The new tier one to me that is on the
>> The new tier one to me that is on the outside looking in and we can decide
outside looking in and we can decide whether or not any of these films is
whether or not any of these films is going to make the list,
going to make the list, >> right,
>> right, >> is as follows. Wicked for Good. Of
>> is as follows. Wicked for Good. Of course, we don't have it in right now,
course, we don't have it in right now, but it is still a contender. They're
but it is still a contender. They're hanging on
hanging on >> and there's going to be a lot of below
>> and there's going to be a lot of below the line nominations for Wicked for
the line nominations for Wicked for Good.
Good. and pro at least two in best actress and
and pro at least two in best actress and supporting actress
supporting actress >> maybe.
>> maybe. >> I think there's certainly supporting
>> I think there's certainly supporting >> there's a strong feeling that Cynthia
>> there's a strong feeling that Cynthia Revo could be out.
Revo could be out. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah, >> I think Chase Infinity could push her
>> I think Chase Infinity could push her out.
out. >> That that would
>> That that would >> we shall see.
>> we shall see. >> Uh I think I think no other choice is
>> Uh I think I think no other choice is still in tier one.
still in tier one. >> I I do as well.
>> I I do as well. >> The nomination at the Globes seems to
>> The nomination at the Globes seems to indicate some strength. Yes, but the
indicate some strength. Yes, but the short list
short list it's it's present but not that present.
it's it's present but not that present. >> You'd like it to be stronger.
>> You'd like it to be stronger. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah, >> for sure.
>> for sure. >> Cinematography baffling.
>> Cinematography baffling. >> I I I don't I can't even imagine what
>> I I I don't I can't even imagine what the point is. F1. I'm putting it in tier
the point is. F1. I'm putting it in tier one.
one. >> Okay, that's fine.
>> Okay, that's fine. >> Welcome to tier one. F1, you you earned
>> Welcome to tier one. F1, you you earned it.
it. >> What's it What is the tier one in F1 the
>> What's it What is the tier one in F1 the sport called?
sport called? >> I don't know. Okay, Jack. Wow. All
>> I don't know. Okay, Jack. Wow. All right.
>> Is Song Blue in Tier One? >> Well, you listen, you're like a little
>> Well, you listen, you're like a little You texted me out of the theater.
You texted me out of the theater. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Right. Um, how long was your drive home
>> Right. Um, how long was your drive home last night, by the way?
last night, by the way? >> It was 1 hour and 4 minutes.
>> It was 1 hour and 4 minutes. >> Okay. Uh, not ideal. And
>> Okay. Uh, not ideal. And >> you were like,
>> you were like, >> I saw two films yesterday. I saw the
>> I saw two films yesterday. I saw the 2hour and 40minute Mellin and then
2hour and 40minute Mellin and then immediately drove 4 minutes away and saw
immediately drove 4 minutes away and saw Son go. You know why? I love film.
Son go. You know why? I love film. >> You know what I'm doing tomorrow?
>> You know what I'm doing tomorrow? >> What are you doing?
>> What are you doing? >> I'm doing a double header of Marty
>> I'm doing a double header of Marty Supreme straight into is this thing on.
Supreme straight into is this thing on. Do I even need to get in my car? No, I
Do I even need to get in my car? No, I don't. I've lined it right up. Thank you
don't. I've lined it right up. Thank you so much.
so much. >> Men okay. Double feature.
>> Men okay. Double feature. Uh, so but you texted me right out of
Uh, so but you texted me right out of the theater and you were like kind of
the theater and you were like kind of surprised how much I liked how much I
surprised how much I liked how much I loved I think you just loved songs on
loved I think you just loved songs on glue.
glue. >> It's just so not really in my bag but
>> It's just so not really in my bag but it's just like a big beautiful steaming
it's just like a big beautiful steaming Christmas ham, you know? Yeah, where
Christmas ham, you know? Yeah, where it's just like sometimes you just want
it's just like sometimes you just want like that pineapple on there and those
like that pineapple on there and those cherries and get that glaze going, you
cherries and get that glaze going, you know, and just like is this good for me?
know, and just like is this good for me? It's debatable, but like I'm I'm
It's debatable, but like I'm I'm loosening the belt tonight for Song
loosening the belt tonight for Song Blue.
Blue. >> So, let's be clear. It's not good for
>> So, let's be clear. It's not good for you. And also, would you actually eat a
you. And also, would you actually eat a ham with pineapple in my days on it? But
ham with pineapple in my days on it? But like right now,
like right now, >> no.
>> no. >> And also, did you ever eat it with the
>> And also, did you ever eat it with the mustard?
mustard? >> [ __ ] no.
>> [ __ ] no. >> That's psychotic behavior.
>> That's psychotic behavior. >> Disgusting. I would never eat that.
>> Disgusting. I would never eat that. >> Okay. I I hear what you're saying. I
>> Okay. I I hear what you're saying. I think that there is
think that there is >> I'm just I'm just I'm just drizzling
>> I'm just I'm just I'm just drizzling idea dust on on this list, you know.
idea dust on on this list, you know. >> Tier one's fine. Tier one's fine.
>> Okay. Tier Tier one. >> Maple glaze on the list.
>> Maple glaze on the list. >> I'll add one more to the top of the
>> I'll add one more to the top of the list. And I think this is in keeping
list. And I think this is in keeping with um
with um >> wait, I got to go back to my list. I
>> wait, I got to go back to my list. I think this is in keeping with um
think this is in keeping with um with the these short list nominations,
with the these short list nominations, which is Weapons. Weapons had been in
which is Weapons. Weapons had been in tier 2.
tier 2. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> But we see it in casting.
>> But we see it in casting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And we know Amy Madigan's going to be
>> And we know Amy Madigan's going to be nominated. I'm not saying it's going
nominated. I'm not saying it's going into best picture. I don't think it is.
into best picture. I don't think it is. >> Right. But you're putting it into tier
>> Right. But you're putting it into tier one. Okay.
one. Okay. >> That means tier two becomes
>> That means tier two becomes >> Rental Family. Is this thing on the
>> Rental Family. Is this thing on the Testament of Man Lee? House of Dynamite,
Testament of Man Lee? House of Dynamite, Jay Kelly, Wake Up Dead Man.
Jay Kelly, Wake Up Dead Man. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Is that track?
>> Is that track? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Now, doing our 10,
I'm going to start from the bottom up. Is it possible Sinners is in first place
Is it possible Sinners is in first place right now?
right now? >> No.
>> No. >> Are you 100% sure it won its first
>> Are you 100% sure it won its first critics prize? It broke the one battle
critics prize? It broke the one battle after another streak?
after another streak? >> Yeah, I think right now we're in the
>> Yeah, I think right now we're in the phase of everyone's tired. It's been a
phase of everyone's tired. It's been a long time. We've got a long time to go.
long time. We've got a long time to go. >> We're looking for narratives. We're
>> We're looking for narratives. We're looking for some juice. We're looking
looking for some juice. We're looking for some maple glaze. I know.
for some maple glaze. I know. >> Three months.
>> Three months. >> And and we're taking one battle for
>> And and we're taking one battle for granted a little. You have been you
granted a little. You have been you yourself, Sean. Fantasy
yourself, Sean. Fantasy >> have been a little uh overconident.
>> have been a little uh overconident. >> Yeah. Presumptuous. And
>> Yeah. Presumptuous. And that's you're right as a as a man
that's you're right as a as a man sitting at this table, but I think that
sitting at this table, but I think that that's reflective of where we are in the
that's reflective of where we are in the race and people are just kind of like, h
race and people are just kind of like, h maybe it's time to talk about sinners
maybe it's time to talk about sinners and that listen, it's good content. I
and that listen, it's good content. I still I think it's two, not one, but
still I think it's two, not one, but >> two.
>> two. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Are you do you did you think Hamn would
>> Are you do you did you think Hamn would be a bigger hit thus far?
be a bigger hit thus far? >> No, I didn't. Like you mean a box office
>> No, I didn't. Like you mean a box office hit? I I I don't I don't think that
hit? I I I don't I don't think that people were going to be rushing out open
people were going to be rushing out open night like you know Paul Mell is the
night like you know Paul Mell is the internet's boyfriend but it's not really
internet's boyfriend but it's not really uh like a Colleen Hoover go with your
uh like a Colleen Hoover go with your girls type of movie.
girls type of movie. >> Bill Simmons loved it.
>> Bill Simmons loved it. >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> Loved it. Texted me
>> Loved it. Texted me >> immediately after seeing it. Wow. Wow.
>> immediately after seeing it. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Wow. >> Wow. Listen, this is what I love about
>> Wow. Listen, this is what I love about Bill. He always surprises. Did he cry?
Bill. He always surprises. Did he cry? >> Uh, he didn't address that when I
>> Uh, he didn't address that when I brought it to him. Okay.
brought it to him. Okay. >> And then I told him what I thought of
>> And then I told him what I thought of the movie, which is what we said on the
the movie, which is what we said on the pod, which is like first hour I really
pod, which is like first hour I really didn't like, but then it really did get
didn't like, but then it really did get me at the end. And then I think he
me at the end. And then I think he listened to the pod and he was like,
listened to the pod and he was like, "You are a heartless fool."
"You are a heartless fool." >> You are.
>> You are. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> I think I think he implied that you were
>> I think I think he implied that you were as well.
as well. >> Oh, I am. I mean, I said I I literally
>> Oh, I am. I mean, I said I I literally cried on that podcast.
cried on that podcast. >> You You did cry. So,
>> You You did cry. So, listen, it's that movie.
listen, it's that movie. >> Let's aggregate that moment, internet.
>> Let's aggregate that moment, internet. I cried and then you started tearing up.
I cried and then you started tearing up. So like I that's fine if I'm heartless.
So like I that's fine if I'm heartless. But uh
But uh >> I I agree we're not heartless. We're
>> I I agree we're not heartless. We're full of heart.
full of heart. >> Okay. So is Hammet in three? It's Do you
>> Okay. So is Hammet in three? It's Do you think it's one battle sinners and Hamnit
think it's one battle sinners and Hamnit right now? Is there anything above it
right now? Is there anything above it coming?
coming? >> No. I think that you would probably have
>> No. I think that you would probably have to put either it was just an accident or
to put either it was just an accident or secret agent
>> or I like sentimental value. I you know I Where are we with that as a community?
I Where are we with that as a community? >> I think it's right where it belongs.
>> I think it's right where it belongs. >> Okay. Where's Bill with that?
>> Okay. Where's Bill with that? >> Uh I don't believe he's seen the film.
>> Uh I don't believe he's seen the film. It is in Norwegian, so no guarantee that
It is in Norwegian, so no guarantee that he's going to watch the film.
he's going to watch the film. >> If you watch it, please text me, too.
>> If you watch it, please text me, too. >> Okay. Cuz you want to be confirmed in
>> Okay. Cuz you want to be confirmed in your feelings of mixedness.
your feelings of mixedness. >> I'm curious. You know, I value his
>> I'm curious. You know, I value his opinion.
opinion. >> I think one Battle Still one, and you're
>> I think one Battle Still one, and you're right that I'm getting overconfident
right that I'm getting overconfident about that.
about that. >> Okay. I do think that Sinners is
>> Okay. I do think that Sinners is increasingly I can see the spoiler done
increasingly I can see the spoiler done because I can see the actors awards
because I can see the actors awards ensemble win on stage. I can see score
ensemble win on stage. I can see score and song going early in the telecast to
and song going early in the telecast to sinners. I could see cinematography
sinners. I could see cinematography going to sinners. Um, I could see a
going to sinners. Um, I could see a couple of things that would make us go,
couple of things that would make us go, "What?" And to your point earlier, if
"What?" And to your point earlier, if somehow when we Masaku and Delroy Lindo
somehow when we Masaku and Delroy Lindo get into those acting races, then it's
get into those acting races, then it's like, "Oh, wow. There's a ton of uh
like, "Oh, wow. There's a ton of uh support." Flip side film didn't do that
support." Flip side film didn't do that well overseas.
well overseas. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> It's a it's a black American film,
>> It's a it's a black American film, right?
right? >> You know, it has obviously elements of
>> You know, it has obviously elements of uh Irish history in it, but it is it is
uh Irish history in it, but it is it is an American movie, and those movies
an American movie, and those movies don't have the strongest track record,
don't have the strongest track record, >> but there's something in the air. I
>> but there's something in the air. I don't know what it is. I think eight
don't know what it is. I think eight short list IDs is a lot. And
short list IDs is a lot. And >> I listen,
>> I listen, >> I'm just I'm flagging it for purposes of
>> I'm just I'm flagging it for purposes of this conversation.
this conversation. >> Number two is where it should be.
>> Number two is where it should be. >> Number two,
>> Number two, >> I don't think you're wrong. It still
>> I don't think you're wrong. It still feels to me like the original screenplay
feels to me like the original screenplay winner
winner >> and um and then some below the line
>> and um and then some below the line stuff and and that's, you know,
stuff and and that's, you know, traditionally the coolest and best award
traditionally the coolest and best award for our favorite person. So that would
for our favorite person. So that would fit that would fit in in my logic as
fit that would fit in in my logic as well.
well. >> Okay. Then here's what I'll propose.
>> Okay. Then here's what I'll propose. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> I think Hammond is still three.
>> I think Hammond is still three. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> I think it is very powerful. I think the
>> I think it is very powerful. I think the people who love it love it. So you'll
people who love it love it. So you'll see a lot of ones on those voting
see a lot of ones on those voting ballots.
ballots. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> I think four I think it was just an
>> I think four I think it was just an accident is an inspired idea. Okay.
accident is an inspired idea. Okay. >> And
>> And >> given all the news about Panahi and some
>> given all the news about Panahi and some of the critical wins that has power.
of the critical wins that has power. >> I still if I were if we were filling out
>> I still if I were if we were filling out our predictions today
our predictions today >> Mhm. It would be one battle best picture
>> Mhm. It would be one battle best picture and panah and best director.
and panah and best director. >> It's definitely possible. Yeah,
>> It's definitely possible. Yeah, definitely possible. That would be
definitely possible. That would be >> which is not like a novel idea. Many
>> which is not like a novel idea. Many people are circling around that.
people are circling around that. >> No, but a lot of people have been
>> No, but a lot of people have been pointing out that the last three or four
pointing out that the last three or four years the Oscars have been going heavy
years the Oscars have been going heavy for one movie instead of you know
for one movie instead of you know spreading the wealth. So we'll we'll see
spreading the wealth. So we'll we'll see if One Battle is truly a juggernaut or
if One Battle is truly a juggernaut or not or if Sinners is stronger than we
not or if Sinners is stronger than we think then everything's on the table.
think then everything's on the table. Um, I would then suggest that if we It
Um, I would then suggest that if we It was just an accident is four, Marty is
was just an accident is four, Marty is five, Frankenstein is six, sentimental
five, Frankenstein is six, sentimental value is seven.
value is seven. >> You think Frankenstein is above
>> You think Frankenstein is above sentimental value?
sentimental value? >> I do.
>> I do. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Because I think it will have more total
>> Because I think it will have more total nominations.
nominations. >> Okay.
>> Okay. One, two, three, four,
One, two, three, four, five.
five. That's in the acting, screenplay, and
That's in the acting, screenplay, and best picture. Do you think? I don't
best picture. Do you think? I don't think it's going to get into screenplay,
think it's going to get into screenplay, but I do think it's going to get into
but I do think it's going to get into directing. And I don't think sentimental
directing. And I don't think sentimental value will get into directing,
value will get into directing, >> but I do think it will get into
>> but I do think it will get into screenplay.
screenplay. >> I think it will get
>> I think it will get >> Wait, what don't you think will get into
>> Wait, what don't you think will get into what's getting into what?
what's getting into what? >> I think sentimental value will get into
>> I think sentimental value will get into screenplay. Yes. And Frankenstein won't.
screenplay. Yes. And Frankenstein won't. >> Agree. Agree. We're on the same
>> Agree. Agree. We're on the same >> Frankenstein will get into directing and
>> Frankenstein will get into directing and sentimental value won't.
sentimental value won't. >> Agree.
>> Agree. >> And then
>> And then >> I I agree with you. Even though do I do
>> I I agree with you. Even though do I do I agree with those choices? No. But I
I agree with those choices? No. But I agree with your assessment. Sentimental
agree with your assessment. Sentimental Value will get three acting noms, but it
Value will get three acting noms, but it will get no below the line nominations.
will get no below the line nominations. Whereas Frankenstein will get like six
Whereas Frankenstein will get like six below the line nominations. That's my
below the line nominations. That's my that's my gut right now.
that's my gut right now. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Could be wrong. I don't know what the
>> Could be wrong. I don't know what the [ __ ] I'm talking about. Um,
[ __ ] I'm talking about. Um, >> so that's the top seven. You got all
>> so that's the top seven. You got all that, Jack?
that, Jack? >> Yeah, he does.
>> Yeah, he does. >> Okay. Avatar Fire and National's getting
>> Okay. Avatar Fire and National's getting in.
in. >> I don't either.
>> I don't either. >> So, we're going to have to figure
>> So, we're going to have to figure something out.
something out. >> All right.
>> All right. >> We've got Train Dreams and the Secret
>> We've got Train Dreams and the Secret Agent at 10 and Nine from last month. I
Agent at 10 and Nine from last month. I feel comfortable just moving those to
feel comfortable just moving those to eight and nine.
eight and nine. >> Eight and nine. Okay. And you still
>> Eight and nine. Okay. And you still think that Train Dreams is ahead of
think that Train Dreams is ahead of Secret Agent?
Secret Agent? >> I think it's pretty tight. I think
>> I think it's pretty tight. I think they're both very wellliked. Very
they're both very wellliked. Very well-liked.
well-liked. >> Secret Agent, I think, is a little bit
>> Secret Agent, I think, is a little bit of a a little bit of a tougher sit for
of a a little bit of a tougher sit for some people because of its length
some people because of its length >> and sort of all over the place. However,
>> and sort of all over the place. However, Brazil very popular, very strong in the
Brazil very popular, very strong in the academy.
academy. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um not been to the country. I'd like to
>> Um not been to the country. I'd like to go one day.
go one day. >> It was lovely.
>> It was lovely. >> Uh you went
>> Uh you went >> when I went? Yeah.
>> when I went? Yeah. >> Did we talk about this?
>> Did we talk about this? >> No, I went with my uh friend Stephanie
>> No, I went with my uh friend Stephanie when I was 25. I got the most sunburn
when I was 25. I got the most sunburn I've ever got in my life. Interesting.
I've ever got in my life. Interesting. What cities did you go to?
What cities did you go to? >> I just went to San Paulo and then to the
>> I just went to San Paulo and then to the to the beach, but I don't remember uh
to the beach, but I don't remember uh the name of the beach, but that it was
the name of the beach, but that it was beautiful.
beautiful. >> Okay, cool.
>> Okay, cool. >> I'd like to go back. I'd like to go to
>> I'd like to go back. I'd like to go to Rio.
Rio. >> Uh so 10. Now, if we're pulling from
>> Uh so 10. Now, if we're pulling from tier one, the tier one choices are
tier one, the tier one choices are Wicked for Good, No Other Choice, F1,
Wicked for Good, No Other Choice, F1, Song Blue, Weapons.
Song Blue, Weapons. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> What's going Okay, so here's We forgot
>> What's going Okay, so here's We forgot to mention one film.
to mention one film. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Surrod.
>> Surrod. You think it's going all the way that I
You think it's going all the way that I mean that would be awesome.
mean that would be awesome. >> I mean we're talking we're just talking
>> I mean we're talking we're just talking on a pod.
on a pod. >> Let's What do you want to put in?
>> Let's What do you want to put in? >> We haven't even seen the film.
>> We haven't even seen the film. >> You want to put it in tier one?
>> You want to put it in tier one? >> Do you know what's going on in this
>> Do you know what's going on in this movie? Do you Are you familiar with what
movie? Do you Are you familiar with what happened?
happened? >> I know like enough that I don't want to
>> I know like enough that I don't want to know the rest. Like stop talking to me
know the rest. Like stop talking to me and I couldn't go to the most recent
and I couldn't go to the most recent screening. I can't remember whether I
screening. I can't remember whether I had to go see
had to go see >> like do you know the premise of the
>> like do you know the premise of the movie?
movie? >> Yeah. It's a rave in the desert. Yeah.
>> Yeah. It's a rave in the desert. Yeah. >> That's how it opens. Yeah.
>> That's how it opens. Yeah. >> No, I don't know the rest. I don't I
>> No, I don't know the rest. I don't I don't want to know anything.
don't want to know anything. >> I'm not going to tell you anything.
>> I'm not going to tell you anything. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> I'm just asking questions.
>> I'm just asking questions. >> Great. And I'm giving you answers. So
>> Great. And I'm giving you answers. So now we have to talk about other things.
now we have to talk about other things. >> So you can't say for sure
>> So you can't say for sure >> if whether it's an academy,
>> if whether it's an academy, >> no other choice or weapons or F1. I mean
>> no other choice or weapons or F1. I mean to me it's like the bold choice right
to me it's like the bold choice right now at this stage of things is F1 Serat,
now at this stage of things is F1 Serat, >> right?
>> right? >> Or no other choice. That's what I those
>> Or no other choice. That's what I those are I think the real contenders. Now you
are I think the real contenders. Now you know what? It might just be wicked for
know what? It might just be wicked for good.
good. It might
It might >> that would be boring,
>> that would be boring, >> but that also is going to have a bunch
>> but that also is going to have a bunch of below the line.
of below the line. >> Will win the cinematic and box office
>> Will win the cinematic and box office achievement award at the Golden Globes
achievement award at the Golden Globes and get that onstage moment. In that
and get that onstage moment. In that category are Avatar, Fire and Ash,
category are Avatar, Fire and Ash, Wicked for Good and K-pop Demon Hunters.
And then, you know, >> I think this is dependent on the first
>> I think this is dependent on the first two weeks of Avatar's box office.
two weeks of Avatar's box office. >> Okay. Cinematic and box office
>> Okay. Cinematic and box office achievement. Uh 2025. I can read the
achievement. Uh 2025. I can read the last the rest.
last the rest. >> Please read the nominees.
>> Please read the nominees. >> Well,
F1 is also in there. Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning, Sinners, Weapons,
The Final Reckoning, Sinners, Weapons, Wicked for Good, Zootopia 2.
Wicked for Good, Zootopia 2. >> Oh, Zootopia 2.
>> Oh, Zootopia 2. >> You think
>> You think >> it's going to make like $1.6 billion?
>> it's going to make like $1.6 billion? >> It's not They're not just looking at the
>> It's not They're not just looking at the box office sheet.
box office sheet. >> It's a cinematic achievement. Yeah. Have
>> It's a cinematic achievement. Yeah. Have you seen the film?
you seen the film? >> I'm going to take Knox. It's an
>> I'm going to take Knox. It's an extraordinary exploration of the way
extraordinary exploration of the way that we allow societies to divide us.
that we allow societies to divide us. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Um I just it I'm saying there's also is
Um I just it I'm saying there's also is this let's see sinners is nominated in
this let's see sinners is nominated in drama and one battle
drama and one battle >> comedy at the glody.
>> comedy at the glody. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So
>> So enhancement was not that strong at the
enhancement was not that strong at the globes. Do you see so you think sinners
globes. Do you see so you think sinners takes drama one battle takes comedy?
takes drama one battle takes comedy? >> I do. And then in this category, you
>> I do. And then in this category, you think it'll be Zootopia over K-pop Demon
think it'll be Zootopia over K-pop Demon Hunters Avatar and Wicked for Good.
Hunters Avatar and Wicked for Good. >> I do.
>> I do. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Unless Zootopia is going to win an
>> Unless Zootopia is going to win an animated feature, which I don't think it
animated feature, which I don't think it is. I think K-pop Demon Hunters.
is. I think K-pop Demon Hunters. >> So, do you think that's how they're
>> So, do you think that's how they're going to do the split?
going to do the split? >> Maybe they give it to Wicked for Good.
>> Maybe they give it to Wicked for Good. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Maybe just because But the truth is is
>> Maybe just because But the truth is is that that movie has not succeeded nearly
that that movie has not succeeded nearly as much as the first film at the box
as much as the first film at the box office.
office. >> Okay. I guess the follow-up question is,
>> Okay. I guess the follow-up question is, do you think that that stage moment for
do you think that that stage moment for whichever of these films matters in
whichever of these films matters in terms of best picture
terms of best picture >> nomination? Okay.
>> nomination? Okay. >> Do you
>> Do you >> I don't know. I think people are
>> I don't know. I think people are impressionable and seeing people on
impressionable and seeing people on stage
stage >> confers an idea of I mean we've we've
>> confers an idea of I mean we've we've always said this about
always said this about >> Do you get a Golden Globe for cinematic
>> Do you get a Golden Globe for cinematic and box office achievement? What do they
and box office achievement? What do they give you like a crunch bar? Like what is
give you like a crunch bar? Like what is that? What's that worth? I love crunch
that? What's that worth? I love crunch bars.
bars. >> I do too. Remember when they did like
>> I do too. Remember when they did like Bunch of Crunch?
Bunch of Crunch? >> Oh yeah.
>> Oh yeah. >> That was so good.
>> That was so good. >> Yeah, that was good.
>> Yeah, that was good. >> Um, we've always said that the Ensemble
>> Um, we've always said that the Ensemble Award at the SEG Awards rebranded as the
Award at the SEG Awards rebranded as the Actor Awards
Actor Awards >> was important in terms of seeing
>> was important in terms of seeing everybody together.
everybody together. >> That's because it's the last big thing
>> That's because it's the last big thing that everyone sees before Oscar voting.
that everyone sees before Oscar voting. That's
That's >> Well, this is the last is this are the
>> Well, this is the last is this are the Globes after the nominations
Globes after the nominations ballots are in. When When is what's the
ballots are in. When When is what's the voting timeline? Oscars voting timeline.
voting timeline? Oscars voting timeline. Timeline
Timeline 2026. This is very exciting.
2026. This is very exciting. >> Like bro, I'm in New Jersey.
>> Like bro, I'm in New Jersey. >> I'm trying to just relax.
>> I'm trying to just relax. >> Nominations voting begins on January
>> Nominations voting begins on January 12th, the morning after. So there.
12th, the morning after. So there. >> Great.
>> Great. >> Okay. I'm just
>> Okay. I'm just >> So you think the cinematic and boxoff
>> So you think the cinematic and boxoff achievement award?
achievement award? >> No, I just want to make sure I'm getting
>> No, I just want to make sure I'm getting this right. You said it's the most
this right. You said it's the most significant bell weather for best the
significant bell weather for best the best picture race in 2026 is what you
best picture race in 2026 is what you said, right?
said, right? >> Just saying lizard brains. People have
>> Just saying lizard brains. People have seen the people on stage and then they
seen the people on stage and then they got to open their portals and you know
got to open their portals and you know testify that they've watched every
testify that they've watched every single movie. What's going at 10? Make a
single movie. What's going at 10? Make a choice.
>> Well, let's see. I Let's Let's be bold. Let's
let's see. I Let's Let's be bold. Let's do Sarat.
do Sarat. >> I love it. That's exactly the right
>> I love it. That's exactly the right choice for the purposes of this list.
choice for the purposes of this list. Yes.
Yes. >> Okay. Let's read our list now.
>> Okay. Let's read our list now. >> At number 10, Serat.
>> At number 10, Serat. >> Yeah. Oliver Lash's Spanish film about a
>> Yeah. Oliver Lash's Spanish film about a well I won't say because I don't want to
well I won't say because I don't want to spoil it for you. Number nine, The
spoil it for you. Number nine, The Secret Agent. Number eight, Train
Secret Agent. Number eight, Train Dreams. Number seven, Sentimental Value.
Dreams. Number seven, Sentimental Value. Number six, Frankenstein. Number five,
Number six, Frankenstein. Number five, Marty Supreme. Number four, It was Just
Marty Supreme. Number four, It was Just an Accident. Number three, Hamnit.
an Accident. Number three, Hamnit. Number two, Sinners. And number one, One
Number two, Sinners. And number one, One Battle After Another. Today's best
Battle After Another. Today's best picture power rankings was brought to
picture power rankings was brought to you by Scout Motors. Bold and cinematic.
you by Scout Motors. Bold and cinematic. Just like these films, the allnew Scout
Just like these films, the allnew Scout Terra and Scout Traveler are planning to
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details. >> Well, that does it.
>> Well, that does it. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> So,
>> So, >> can I ask a question very quickly?
>> can I ask a question very quickly? >> Of course.
>> Of course. >> Avatar Fire and Ash dropping out, more
>> Avatar Fire and Ash dropping out, more specifically, your personal reactions to
specifically, your personal reactions to the film or something larger
the film or something larger collectively you think is being felt by
collectively you think is being felt by the industry?
larger. I think >> I think so.
>> I think so. >> It's just the juice isn't there in the
>> It's just the juice isn't there in the same way. I mean, you know, we we also
same way. I mean, you know, we we also estimated that the box office would be
estimated that the box office would be much lower than Avatar the Way of Water
much lower than Avatar the Way of Water and the critical reactions are it's not
and the critical reactions are it's not just us. Many many people are saying
just us. Many many people are saying that it's not as exciting as the first
that it's not as exciting as the first two. And it's the same logic we're using
two. And it's the same logic we're using for Wicked for Good.
for Wicked for Good. >> It's exactly right. Way of Water was a
>> It's exactly right. Way of Water was a 67 on Metacritic. Avatar Fire and Ash is
67 on Metacritic. Avatar Fire and Ash is a 61 and will probably go down a bit
a 61 and will probably go down a bit over the next couple of days. So,
over the next couple of days. So, I just think there is like the that
I just think there is like the that everything that Amanda said that lack of
everything that Amanda said that lack of the thrill of the news, some of the
the thrill of the news, some of the repetition of the story beats, those
repetition of the story beats, those things are working against it. But it's
things are working against it. But it's a good question and we could be wrong
a good question and we could be wrong >> because you know Ben against Big Jim
>> because you know Ben against Big Jim >> dicey.
>> dicey. >> So far it has not served us. So,
>> So far it has not served us. So, did we have Way of Water in in in last
did we have Way of Water in in in last time in 22?
time in 22? >> I don't remember.
>> I don't remember. >> I don't remember either. Nevertheless,
>> I don't remember either. Nevertheless, the uh next episode of this pod is going
the uh next episode of this pod is going to be very cool because we are talking
to be very cool because we are talking about Ella McKay and is this thing on
about Ella McKay and is this thing on two movies that I have no idea if the
two movies that I have no idea if the audience of this show are going to see.
audience of this show are going to see. Ella McKay just opened to one of the
Ella McKay just opened to one of the single lowest wide release weekend box
single lowest wide release weekend box office numbers in the history of film.
office numbers in the history of film. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> However, the film is also actively being
>> However, the film is also actively being meme'd on the internet.
meme'd on the internet. >> I've also seen it and I have many strong
>> I've also seen it and I have many strong thoughts.
thoughts. >> As do I.
>> As do I. >> Is this thing on you haven't seen yet? I
>> Is this thing on you haven't seen yet? I also have strong thoughts.
also have strong thoughts. >> So, I'm It's going to be real coming on
>> So, I'm It's going to be real coming on hot. It's also we're at that time of
hot. It's also we're at that time of year where it's it's crunch time for
year where it's it's crunch time for it's crunch time for the movies. It's
it's crunch time for the movies. It's crunch time for you and me. And this has
crunch time for you and me. And this has the prime Friday afternoon before
the prime Friday afternoon before Christmas uh second recording of the day
Christmas uh second recording of the day spot. So like I it will have to be seen
spot. So like I it will have to be seen and heard to be believed is these films
and heard to be believed is these films and also the podcast.
and also the podcast. >> We're going to leaven that discussion
>> We're going to leaven that discussion with 10 overlooked and underseen movies
with 10 overlooked and underseen movies from the year.
from the year. >> You'll pick a few. I'll pick a few.
>> You'll pick a few. I'll pick a few. We'll put our list together. will say,
We'll put our list together. will say, "Hey, maybe over the holidays, watch
"Hey, maybe over the holidays, watch these movies." Sound good?
these movies." Sound good? >> That sounds great.
>> That sounds great. >> Okay. Thanks to our producer, Jack
>> Okay. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders for his work on this episode.
Sanders for his work on this episode. Thanks for to CT for filling in in
Thanks for to CT for filling in in studio. We'll see you next time.
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