This content explores the persistent and often overlooked evidence of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP), suggesting a deeper, potentially non-human intelligence interacting with Earth, particularly around nuclear sites, and challenging conventional scientific and governmental narratives.
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They're not coming in from another star
system every other Tuesday. They're
they're present here.
There are handfuls of people doing weird
things here and there. Those people are
all over the place. Some of them I knew
when I was at NASA have come talked to
me and said, "Oh, yeah. I was
interested. I know something about this
or that."
>> Have you met anybody working on the
crafts themselves?
>> I've met people who've claimed to have
worked on them or seen them. So, yeah.
So the question I've had is why when we
had the NASA commission, why was there
no section on what astronauts have seen
in space?
I talked to Alan Bean. He was from
Apollo 12. He said that when he went up
to Skyab, they actually photographed a
red flashing light. Nobody puts lights
on satellites. First, you don't need
them, and second, it's more weight.
>> Also, satellites back then weren't doing
proximity operations. They were just
following predictable orbit. They
weren't changing orbits.
>> They weren't changing orbits either. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> They actually had a craft pull up
alongside of them in half their orbit.
And the cosminaut drew a picture of the
object. The story Musgrave, a shuttle
pilot, also talked about seeing things
like snakes. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> Things writhing around in space. Really? >> Yeah.
>> This is a phenomena that people have
seen for centuries. This case is going
back to the 1800s.
Balls of light coming out of the water,
hovering next to the ship, following the
ship, and then taking off into the clouds.
clouds.
And um that's why I think there's
probably bases underwater is your best bet.
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back to the show. Kevin Kuth, uh, this
is an absolute honor. It's been a long
time coming. Um, you're a physicist at
the University of Albany and and to me,
you are one of the few people who speaks
about UFOs in a really concrete,
hard-headed way. I think you're one of
the few people I know who are studying
how these crafts actually fly, how to
detect them. Um, and so I'm really
excited to have you. Thank you.
>> Well, then thank you so much for having
me. This is very exciting.
>> Oh, no. It's an absolute honor. And you
you have a a NASA background as well. I
I I want to know how you got into UFOs
to begin with because a lot of people
with your sort of credentials and
background uh think UFOs are a joke,
>> right? Yeah. I mean, I've I've always
been interested in in UFOs. I was 12
when Star Wars came out in 1977. And
during and during that time, I mean, it
was the same year Close Encounters: The
Third Kind came out. It was, you know, another
another
movie studios response to Star Wars that
came out in December. And I didn't I
didn't like it as much cuz there weren't
spaceships shooting each others with
lasers, right? So So as a 12-year-old,
that wasn't that exciting. But um but at
the same time, you know, there were TV
shows like In Search of with Leonard
Leonard Nemoy um and they would cover
UFO topics and that was on every night
like at 6:30 when we're eating dinner.
So So I watched that all the time. So
I've always been interested in them and um
um
and I think I wasn't so so this so I
went to graduate school in 1988. Um, I'm
grew up in Wisconsin and I moved out to
Montana to go to graduate school at
Montana State University in Bosezeman.
And our first week or two there, I had
just moved there. And um, there was a
cattle mutilation
>> where two cows were killed and
surgically manipulated. I don't have a
good word for what happened to them.
>> The blood was drained.
>> The blood was drained. The the the
sensory organs removed. the genitals
removed. One of them had like a core
sample. It had this cylindrical hole
punched through it. Just bizarre. I
mean, really bizarre. And the stand and
the people on the news were crazed about
this, right? Oh my god, there's, you
know, these two cows on this ranch were
killed. And there were UFO reports in
the county that night, hundreds of
reports. And um so the two stories were
that it was either aliens or Satanists.
And and and everybody's all got their
undies in a bundle over this, right? And
so, so we're at the physics department
and um some of us grad students are
talking about this and especially the
new graduate students, we've all just
moved there into a PhD program. So,
you're looking down the barrel of
spending five or six years of your life
at this place and we want what where did
what kind of place did we just move to
where cows are
>> murdered this way, right? This is really
bizarre. So, we're discussing this in
the hallway
>> and it was this heated discussion and I
remember I remember shouting at one
point, I don't know why aliens would do
it and I don't know how Satanists would
do it. I mean, it was that that level of
stupid discussion, right, that that
students would have and we were quite
loud and disturbed one of the professors
down the hall and he came out from his
office to find out what we're talking
about. He comes down the hall and we
tell him and I don't know if he was
trying to make us feel better cuz it was
the opposite, but he said, "Oh yeah,
yeah, this happens from time to time and
they'll investigate it and they won't
figure anything out and then everybody
will just forget about until it happens
again." And we're just like, "What?
That's even crazier than
than what we're already talking about."
And then he adds and he goes, "But you
know what's really strange? There are,
he goes, I have friends who work up at
Malmstrom Air Force Base and they have
problems with UFOs flying over the
nuclear missile sites and shutting down
nuclear missiles.
And you know, we listened politely and
when he walked away, we laughed our
asses off cuz this was the at the time
it was the silliest thing I thought I'd
ever heard. I mean, UFOs are shutting
down nuclear missiles and this isn't
>> everybody's not on red alert. I mean the
the the our our entire military should
be mobilized or something like that, right?
right?
>> So we just didn't believe it. We thought
this was just silly and it became kind
of a running joke. Anytime something
weird would happen at, you know, at
school or somebody's telling a story,
oh, this weird thing happened to me,
someone would invariably interject, but
you know what's really strange? UFOs are
shutting down nuclear missiles up in
Msrom Air Force. And we would all laugh,
right? This and so that was a running
joke for a whole year. And so now time
passes and um that was September of 1988
and he had said that it was ongoing. He
said they are doing this presently. Right.
Right. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And so now fast forward to
it was about 2015. So it's a couple
years before the New York Times article
and um I was teaching an astronomy
class. And we got to the point we're
talking about possibility of life
elsewhere. And some of the students
wanted me to comment on UFOs. I'm like,
well, I don't know anything about UFOs
and it's not certainly not science. This
is an astronomy class. So So I was just
poking around on the internet if there
is there anything reasonable I can
actually say other than the Drake
equation and the Fairmy paradox, right?
The two typical things that scientists
might talk about. And I was just poking
around at like 2 a.m. and I stumbled on
um Robert Hastings news um conference
from like 2010 where he had six people
on from the Air Force, various Air Force
positions. The first one was Robert Solace
Solace
talking about UFOs shutting down nuclear
missiles at Monstrom Air Force Base. And
I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I
heard about this in grad school. That
was a joke, right? And then I'm
listening to this. I'm like, that's is
not a joke.
>> Between September of ' 66
and March of ' 67,
we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity.
>> It's wild. Yeah. >> 30.
>> 30.
>> 30. That's pretty pretty insane.
>> Now, now what are you doing? He's
talking about events from 1966.
>> And I heard about it in 1988. And the
professor that told me in 1988 about
this was said that it is happening.
>> So this has been going on for 20 years
and no one's paying any attention to
this. I mean the army is still not the
military is still not mobilized and
worrying about this and I thought there
is something really wrong here.
>> And and I and I spent some time thinking
about it. I was up late that night
teaching class early, right? I didn't
barely slept. But I was thinking about
it and I thought, I mean, it's either
nonsense and the people who are in
charge of our nuclear missiles are
people who we shouldn't be trusting with
anything, or this is actually real,
which makes more sense considering the
amount of time that's involved, a
20-year time span, and um and nobody's
reacting to it, maybe because they all
think it's nonsense. And I thought,
"This is extremely dangerous. We're
going to get blindsided by something if
we're not careful." And I thought,
"Somebody ought to look into this." And
I thought, "I'm going to start looking
into this UFO business. What's all what
what is here? How real is this? How
possible is this?" And I so I so that's
when I started looking into it.
>> And I was and I had actually given a
talk in our department
like a year later after I looked into it
somewhat. I thought this is actually
really interesting. So I gave a talk in
our physics department about it, just an
informal talk and um and the room was
packed. I mean we I don't know how many
people can actually sit in that room but
it was well over the fire limit, right?
I mean we had people sitting
cross-legged right up to the front screen
screen
>> and um and I the talk went on there were
so many questions I talk of it for
almost 3 hours
>> and and most people just stayed for it
cuz everybody was really interested and
I thought yeah see this is interesting.
I mean this is an interesting problem
here and it's not that simple. And then
of course a year after that the New York
Times article comes out and um
>> and I thought well somebody has to be
somebody ought to study this and I
thought well shoot you just do it. >> Yeah
>> Yeah
>> I should do it.
>> And the nuclear link I could see that
being the perfect gateway for a rigorous
scientist like yourself because I think
science in the conventional sense has to
be repeatable. you need, you know, every
time you you drop this pen, it needs to
fall in sort of the same way for it to
be science, right?
>> And so I think the nuclear link is a
version of that with UFOs where UFOs
seem to show up across nuclear bases,
not only in the US, but all over the
world. And
>> yeah, and that's that's one thing that
worried me once I looked into it. I
thought, wow, this is happening in the
Soviet Union. This is happening in
France. This is happening in England. We
were talking before the show. I'm
wearing my American Alchemy Japan shirt,
which is paying homage to Leno, which is
a town next to their Fukushima
prefraracture, where they have they're
famous for their nuclear spill in 2011.
They have their civilian energy grid,
and UFOs were reported to show up there.
They have a whole museum dedicated to
UFOs. Vice did a documentary on them in
2022, and it's the town in Japan that's
obsessed with UFOs, and it's right next
to this nuclear. There was a Netflix
encounter episode I think episode 4
focused on that as well.
>> And Malmstrom where you mentioned that
is the site of
>> tons and tons of activity. You have Bob
Salace obviously in in ' 67 but before
that you had this this Echoflight
incident you know I think it was like
very it was 10 days before or something.
One was March 16th one was March 24th.
Then you have uh John Mills this retired
missile technician in the early 90s
seeing a bunch of UFOs there. You even
have an interview with this guy Chris
Langan, which say what you will about
the guy. He says he's has the highest IQ
in the world. He seems a little cocky to
me, but he's just offhand. He's saying
he's he's seen UFOs and he's seen them
around Malmstrom uh Air Force Base.
>> On the UFO thing, I was working for the
Forest Service not too far from
Malmstrom Air Force Base. One day I was
up there in a Forest Service pickup
truck at a certain campground and uh I
was there and suddenly I look up and I I
say suddenly it was just in the sky. I
became aware that it was up there and I
looked up there's this huge spheroidal
you know but elliptical not not a
perfect spheroid like a saucer that was
turned partially on its side >> right
>> right
>> and so it's just this recurring trope
from all these uncorrelated sources. uh
Robert Hastings who wrote the book UFOs
and Nukes got into this whole subject
because his father was actually uh um
working at Malmstrom base and um he was
learning radar theory from one of the
radar operators there. Uh Bob Hastings
was while he was a janitor. He was in
high school and the the radar operator
was like, "We're tracking some of these
unknowns. You should take a look." And
then that that was it for him. He was
hooked and he dedicated his life to
studying this stuff.
>> Crazy. Yeah.
>> So yeah.
>> Yeah. It's cool. I was maybe 3 years
ago. We were down in Louisiana visiting
my in-laws for for Marty Gro. And so
we're it was February and we're grill
outside grilling, right? And um and I
was grilling with my wife's uncle Matt
and he had his Air Force cap on and I
and I spotted Malmstrom Air Force Base
on his Air Force cap and I was like,
"Uncle Matt, you were at the air you
were in the Air Force and you were at
Mstrom. You were at Malmstrom." And he
goes, "Yeah, I was stationed in Malta."
I When were you there? And he goes, "Uh,
like 1971 through 74 or something like
that and early '7s." And I said, "Did
you ever hear anything about UFO
incursions at nuclear weapons sites?" He
goes, "Oh, that happened all the time.
These things would come in and shut down
the nuclear weapons." And he was going
on and on about this. I'm like, like
it's common knowledge. Yep.
>> Right. And how how is it Congress is
just finding out about this, right? And
my wife's uncle Matt has known this
since 1971. Th this is something to
worry about, right? And I was so
excited. I I I told him, "Okay, can you
tell my wife this because I'm tired of
being the only crazy person in
but but it was his response was amazing.
Oh yeah, this happened all the time."
And like like it's nothing, right? So on
the one hand, you have UFOs showing up
around our most important assets or
nuclear assets with people who are on
the PRP program who literally like they
have to report if they're on ibuprofen.
These are people who work at the nuclear
bases. They're the picture of mental
health and of sound mind and they all
see tic tac, saucers, orbs, you know,
shutting down nukes, >> right?
>> right?
>> There's that and then there's the idea
that the US government might have
saucers and hangers,
>> right? Do you think it's clear that this
is happening the nuclear thing? That's
that's clear.
>> Absolutely clear. Yeah.
>> Do you think the US government has
saucers and hangers and we have a an
active reverse engineering program for
nuts and bolts physical craft?
>> I think that's probably true. I've heard
this from enough people who've done that
kind of work for years now. That that's
probably the case. Yeah.
>> Have you met anybody working on the
crafts themselves?
>> I've met people who've claimed to have
worked on them or seen them. So, yeah.
Anybody that you can mention or
>> No, I shouldn't do that. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> These are these are whispers that you
get every note and I can't.
>> Did you Did you find them believable though?
though?
>> Yeah. Entirely believable. Yeah.
>> Really? Yeah.
>> No. You didn't sense any sort of deception?
deception?
>> No. No. One of the most believable
things I've heard is, "Well, have you
been able to figure anything out?" No,
we don't know. We don't know what
anything is or how anything works. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> That was my most And and I was like,
"All right, that makes sense." >> Interesting.
>> Interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's like um you know, giving an
iPhone to a a
just caveman or something
>> something like that. Yeah. >> Interesting.
>> Interesting.
>> I mean, it seem it seems like that the
tech any technologies they've got from
it are just, you know, surface level
type stuff. Oh, this is some interesting
material. What's it made of that that level?
level?
>> If if I were on the inside, I would
probably want somebody like you working
on this sort of thing.
>> I'd love to be working on this, but I
not not black work. I'd love to work on
this in the open.
>> Have you ever been contacted to do black
work? Uh, I had the opportunity to to
have clearance when I worked at NASA.
Okay. But but I turned it down
>> because you've always wanted to do
things in an open transparent way.
>> I'm a scientist and I want to and this
and one of the benefits of being a
scientist is we share information. We
work together. We cooperate.
>> Do you think that's
>> and and yeah, there's some competition,
but there's a lot of collaboration as
well. So, and that's very healthy.
>> Do you think that's part of what's held
back the legacy UFO program?
>> Back. If if it's held back at all, it's
because you've got 10 people closeted
working on one thing and they don't get
extra information that you might need to
get interesting ideas. You know, the
more people you have working on a
problem, the more diversity of ideas
you're going to get. And
>> do you think that there are certain
scientific things that you can't work on
in the kind of civil side, you know,
open world of of science without
receiving backlash?
Uh, UFOs is one of them. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. We There was some backlash
some backlash when we started working on
UFOs. There's You mentioned on Danny
Jones that you've had various friends
work on anti-gravity and receive sort of backlash,
backlash,
>> threatened threats and things like that.
Yeah. Too.
>> That's scary.
>> That's very strange. Yeah.
>> What do you think that is with the
anti-gravity stuff?
>> I really have no idea. Yeah, I mean I,
you know, you can jump to conclusions
and say, well, because somebody doesn't
want other people discovering things
that they know about and have control
over. I mean, you could jump to that
conclusion, but I don't I don't actually
know what the situation is. It's hard to tell.
tell.
>> Doesn't that feel like the base case
conclusion? Like if you if somebody's
getting threatened over discovering a
thing, um it would seem like there'd be
some group on the inside that would be
tracking people trying to discover a
thing that they're already aware of,
right? Yeah. Like that seems like the
AAMS razor easy explanation.
>> It leads to a whole sets of conspiracy
theories, right? And it's it's difficult.
difficult.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I've done deep dives on this
guy like Towns and Brown who I'm really
fascinated with and I I talk about him
probably too much for the audience
always laughs when I talk but but you
know I I find him to be really
interesting because I do think he made
breakthroughs in the world of gravity.
this sort of biffield brown effect which
is I think a very simple experiment but
I have you looked into that at all or
>> I haven't looked into that much at all.
Um you have limited time that's the
problem. I've got stacks of books I want
to read and things I want to look at and
yeah, it's just you have to pick and
choose. And I think that's and that's
one reason why you don't have academics
in the past looking into UFOs because
why spend time on something that's
probably nonsensical when you can be
sending spending time on something that
is probably going to pay off. And I
think that's the calculation most people
are doing. And
>> how do you
>> except at this point I don't think it's
nonsensical. So the payoff's huge,
right? How do you think UFOs fly?
>> I have no idea.
They're ve they're very strange in a lot
of ways. First, the um
how many ways are they strange, right?
The the speeds and accelerations are
crazy, right? The accelerations,
nobody's going to survive that. So, so
the equipment isn't going to survive it.
So, you know, in the Nimtt's case, we
estimated the acceleration of the tic
tac dropping from 28,000 ft to sea level
in 7 5 seconds or so, 78 seconds. Um,
it's about 5,000 gs of acceleration
minimum, right? 5,000 gs is insane. Um,
the new F-35 fighter jets, their wings
rip off at 13gs.
You know, most missile frames can't
handle more than a a missile can't
maneuver at more than about 35 gs.
>> And the frame isn't going to survive
more than 60 gs.
>> And now you got this tic tac thing
accelerating at 5,000 gs. That's not
possible. I mean, equipment won't
survive. So now this leads you to think
the only solutions there is you've got
to be playing with inertia somehow.
You've got to be playing with gravity
somehow. And um and so that leads you
down the path of general relativity and
warp drive and that way of thinking, right?
right?
>> Do you have a like a prop a propulsion
modality that you like best when it
comes to UFOs?
>> No, I don't exactly. So then but then
the other problem is power. If you look
at energies and power involved, the the
amount of power for that tic tac dropping
dropping
>> is something like um what was it was,00
gawatt of power.
You know, I remember Back to the Future
with Doc Doc Brown 2.1 gaww like that's
crazy or something. This thing was,00
gawatts, right? I mean, this is
>> And he had he had Mr. Fusion, which was
a nuclear fusion machine. Yeah,
>> that's right. Yeah. So, this is more
power. The tic tac maneuver took more
power than the total nuclear power
output of the United States.
>> Wow. Wow.
>> And that's in in that tic tac in the
size of an F-18. I mean, that's crazy.
And so now how do you how do you get
your head around that if so if if you so
let's say they're they can deal with
that kind of power for some reason they
have access to that much energy.
>> Um equipment is never 100% efficient.
>> So a 1% inefficiency. So you most of the
things we make are like 20% efficient at
best, right? Um so let's say they're
really good at this. They can get to 99%
efficiency. That means you've got a 1% inefficiency.
inefficiency.
>> 1% of 1,000 gawatt is like 11 gawatt of power.
power.
>> That means 11 gawatts of power is going
into waste heat.
>> The thing would melt. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So now what's happening? Are they really
more efficient than 99%.
>> Or is or do we have something wrong? Are
we looking at this the wrong way? Maybe
maybe they're not actually moving in
such a way that takes that much power.
>> Do you have any theories?
>> I don't exactly. Um warp drive is
certainly on the table. >> Um
>> Um
but that too is messy because we don't
how you know since there has been
theoretical work done on on warp bubbles
um we don't really know how these would
interact with matter. M so what does a
warp bubble do in an atmosphere? We
don't nobody's I don't think has looked
into that. So so these things are
strange because they don't appear to be
interacting with the atmosphere at all.
There's no sonic boom. There's no
fireball. There's no sound in many
cases. Uh the underwater UFOs you've
even got more in you should should be a
much more friction there. These things
are moving. The the one with the H the
the New Zealand frigot in 1980s, the HMNZS
HMNZS Southland
Southland
um had an 800 foot long USO
following it and it was about 2 km
behind the ship and actually closed that
distance in 25 seconds and went under
the ship and drained all the batteries,
drained all the power from the ship. And
you've got a clear the the width of this
thing was about 150 ft in diameter. This
cylindrical shaped object 800 ft long.
So it's so it's what is that? That's 30%
longer than the largest um Russian sub
to be the typhoon class subs, right? So
it's 30% bigger than a typhoon class
sub. The thing closes 2 km in 25
seconds. This gives you an acceleration
right underwater. The top speed is
something like 3,500 miles an hour and
you've got to clear a
a 150 foot diameter cylind 2 kmter long
cylinder of water out of the way to move
this thing in in 25 seconds. That water
had to go somewhere. Water is not
compressible. So you would have had
waves coming up. Um that did not happen.
So the thing is acting like it's not
even interacting with the water.
Yet we have sonar records from this
which mean sonar works by water
molecules banging on things right and
bouncing off. So the water molecules are
bouncing off this thing but it's not
interacting with the water all at the
same time.
How how this works I I have no
explanation for this. Um but that's the
data. Now now what do you do? Hm. Interesting.
Interesting.
>> It's really perplexing. These things are
really not simple.
>> Yeah. Do you think you've ever studied
UFO parts?
>> Um my colleague Matthew Shadalagus has
been working on studying debris from
purported crashes. >> Really?
>> Really?
>> Yeah. He has a new technique for um
detecting isotopes um using neutron
activation. So he's developed this
technique and he's been working on this
furiously for the last couple months.
>> Neutron activations, how is that
different than massspec?
>> Um mass spec basically you um typically
you you dissolve the material in nitric
acid and then you spray it into a into a
some electric plates that basically
electrify it, ionize it and then you
shoot it into a magnetic field that
constant magnetic field. The thing will
move in a circle. So, and the radius of
the circle depends on the mass. So, then
it hits a screen depending on where the
mass is. It changes where it hits the
screen. So, you can measure the mass of
the isotopes inside that spray.
>> And to back up for the audience, um,
isotope differences are are neutron
differences in various elements, right?
And if you were to find some, you know,
isotope ratios in a material that don't
occur naturally on Earth and don't
pattern match to asteroids, that would
be this really exciting, you know,
possible smoking gun that the thing is
actually a UFO,
>> right? Exactly. Well said. You
summarized that very nicely.
>> Yeah, that's exactly it. And um so
Matthew's technique is different. He
basically irradiates the material with neutrons
neutrons
>> with with a neutron source and basically
creates um
heavier isotopes with these extra neutrons
neutrons
>> and um and then he watches them decay
back into the the states that they were
in before. So he can tell what the
isotopes he created were and then he can
infer what they were originally um from
that. And it's non-destructive because
the they they decipate back to where
they were and u pretty quickly. And um
and you're not doing it to most of the
material. You're only you know rating
thousands of these atoms rather than as
compared to Avagadro's number for the
whole sample. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> It's so amazing. I mean Gary Nolan is
also doing this at Stanford. He's using
mass spec. Right. So, it's cool to see
that there's, you know, there are
updates even on his work as far as this
material analysis. The UFO Legacy
program has to be keeping tabs on what
you guys are doing. That would be my
guess, right? Right.
>> Like they you'd want some sort of like
civilian like the smartest like
>> Yeah. No, I know there there's there's
interest in Matthew's work. He's had
contact with government people and I
can't really talk about those details, but
but
>> Okay. Yeah. Are the parts like arts
parts? the the parts that
>> some of them were arts parts, but he's
he's had other ones, too. He's had
material from Ukraine and Israel and >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> all over. Yeah. >> Interesting.
>> Interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Arts parts. It's this rumor that
Art Bell, right, eventually ended up uh
in possession of this material that I
think was from the Was it from the Roswell?
Roswell?
>> Some of it's from Roswell. Yeah. Yeah.
and and the the material is in Artbell
obviously famous coast to coast you know
amazing you know um radio show host that
reached you know 10 to 15 million people
every night super into UFOs and it's so
interesting that he received these
pieces cuz he you know he's so
passionate about about this stuff I
believe one of the pieces is magnesium
bismouth is that right
>> because that's what Nolan has as well I
find this really interesting because in
the Biffield brown effect with towns and
brown the anti-gravity stuff. Uh, and I
don't have any I have a little bit of
evidence that Towns and Brown might have
been involved in one UFO crash
retrieval, but I don't have a ton I I
mostly have evidence that he figured out
an anti-gravity modality, but magnesium
uh or or bismouth rather is constantly
talked about bismouth because bismouth
is a high K dialectric. So it stores and
discharges easily a lot of
electromagnetism and that in the Bfield
Brown effect if you use that as the
insulator between the two you know
negative and positive electrodes that
creates greater thrust. So I find it
fascinating that you have UFO parts that
in the only anti-gra or in one of the
few anti-gravity experiments that we
know of it creates more thrust in that
experiment. That seems really
significant to me.
>> Right. And the other interesting thing
is it has nano layers of the bismouth
and magnesium. And the and one of one of
the two is paramagnetic and the other is diamagnetic.
diamagnetic.
>> So they're they have two very different
magnetic properties which is
interesting. So a lot of the
>> a lot of the modern work that we do in
material science on like spinronics and
this sort of thing basically is dealing
with magnetic spins with diamagnetic and
paramagnetic materials. So
>> so a lot of the new
breakthroughs in material science is
related to these types of materials as
well. So this is interesting stuff.
>> Super interesting. Yeah. Gary was also
when I was at his lab, he showed me some
of the pieces and he mentioned that some
of these materials might be able to
microsize wave guides for terraertz power.
power.
>> And um do do you think that that that's
true? Do you think these these pieces
are able to
>> I don't know if that's I don't know if
that's possible. Um that we haven't
looked into and I know I know what
Matthew's done, but I don't think that
he's looked into that at all. Yeah.
>> What is What is one scientific truth
that you adamantly believe that
conventional science disagrees with you
vehemently on? >> Oh,
that's a good question.
I don't know if I have an answer immediately.
immediately.
>> You you could dwell on it if you want
for in the movie if it comes up.
>> Have to think about that. What do I What
do I What interesting? Yeah. I don't
know if I don't know if there is one exactly.
exactly.
>> Yeah. At at NASA um you mentioned the
people there weren't really into UFOs.
How does how do you square that with all
this lore of them being interested in
UFOs and like I don't know, you have
like um Diana Pulka. Have you ever read
her book American Cosmic? So, she has
this NASA mission controller who
>> I guess now is public, but his his name
is Tim Taylor and you know, he's going
around taking them to crash UFO crash
sites, right?
>> Seems extremely read into any sort of
UFO program that exists. There are there
are individuals at NASA who are
interested and I and since I've gotten
interested and been vocal about it. I've
had some of the some of them I knew when
I was at NASA have come talked to me and
said, "Oh, yeah. I was interested or I
knew I know some something about this or that."
that." >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> It's so strange cuz it Yeah. You have
Hal Pavmeer who was a I think he was
both CIA and NASA showing up at Chris
Bledso's door when he starts to attract UFOs.
UFOs.
Very It's like
>> Yeah. Well, people come kind of come out
of the woodwork. You find that, you
know, I've now had a couple people from
NASA I find out were interested in
remote viewing.
>> Like I wouldn't have thought that when I
was back, you know, when I worked there, but
but >> interesting.
>> interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Is there a are they doing remote viewing
in a professional capacity at NASA?
>> No. Well, yeah. So, um I don't know. I
don't want to tell on anybody, but some
of this is actually public, but nobody's
noticed. Um, so one of the people at
NASA's actually written a CIA training
manual for remote viewing. >> Really?
>> Really? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But this this is public. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Well, then well, we can people are
going to look it up.
>> You can figure out who it is.
>> Okay. All right.
>> Yeah. No, I actually I was Yeah, there
was a Yeah. So, but
>> Well, if it's public, it's you know interesting.
interesting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> That's fascinating. and and that person
did it before they came to NASA but um
but are currently or were were NASA they
may be retired now at this point
>> you know they also have a patent I
believe in 2003 on a barrel-shaped
asymmetric capacitor and they put they
say this is we're talking about Thomas
Towns and Brown
>> Oh yeah that that works interesting too yeah
yeah
>> it's very interesting
>> yeah there are the these there are
handfuls of people doing weird things
here and there right and Yeah.
Yeah.
>> And they've been I mean you and once
I've gotten involved with this I find
that those people are all over the place
and they're all studying things they're
not supposed to be studying which is >> fascinating.
>> fascinating.
>> On that patent that NASA patent I
believe Larry Smallley has his name
there. He's a University of Alabama
Huntsville. He was the physics chair and
under him was a woman named Ning Lee and
she was studying I think like um superconductorbased
superconductorbased
you know kind of weight reduction uh via
kind of anti-gravity I think she she
called it gravitons gravity particles um
would would cause this sort of effect
and um you know obviously you know
groundbreaking sort of controversial
claim and she speaks about this at some
sort of MITER Corporation event and Um
then she kind of you know goes dark I
think gets a security clearance but um
her physics she leaves and starts a a
company I think it's called anti-gravity
LLC or something and then her physics
chair Larry Smallley goes and joins her
which I think is lends credence to the
actual findings right if your physics
chair leaves I mean you you know
academia it's kind of okay everybody's
got to be high conviction at that point
>> yeah yeah you don't leave a tenure position
position
>> and then his name shows up on a patent
around a barrel-shaped asymmetric
capacitor which is town that's talking
about towns and brown and I'm like,
okay, what's going on?
>> Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Wow.
>> I find it fascinating. Yeah. But but I
mean, one question I have is you have
all these names pop up, right? And you
have, you know, how put off is obviously
like seems so at the center of so much
UFO physics. Um, but a lot of a lot of
the names that pop up in in UFO science,
quote unquote, uh, it's almost like
there's some sort of like substructure
of a lot of these like mega structure.
So, like NASA, I don't like it. It
almost seems like what you're saying is
there is no official knowledge of UFOs,
but it's like these people within NASA
that are extremely interested in this
stuff. How do you square that with like
you watch the age of disclosure and it's
like we have a legacy program which you
would that implies some sort of like you
know it's like super wellcoordinated
>> it's a different thing. Yeah.
>> So like what I always try to ask I try
to press on people here is it like is
there a program or is it like this
hermetic substructure where people come
together via synchronicities
>> just people doing things. Um, I mean
that's one thing. I mean scientists
tinker as well, right? And
>> and NASA isn't like that now, but when I
worked there, which was the early 2000s,
you still were able to do like blue sky
research as as long as I mean the
requirement was you had to convince your
aerial lead that this was in line with
NASA's missions basically in some way.
And so um, so and that's all you had to
do. And so then you could go off and
work on this project, you know, now and
and while I worked there, near the end
of the time I worked there during the
Bush administration, they started what
they called full cost accounting
>> where they have to account for all their
costs. So now now you have to
>> you have to account for the time you
spend on things and and if you're doing
that, then you can't do this blue sky
research on this. You can't do this
little thing on the side. So for
example, one of the things that we tried
to do on the side, so this was a um
Yeah, why not? We we had I was
interested in the the Roswell um story
and I
was struck by the fact that the picture,
you know, Jesse Marcel says one thing
about the the material and and sounds
entirely believable and then they get
the picture the in the newspaper with
General Remy with what clearly is
aluminum foil and balsa wood.
>> Oh yeah.
>> In the picture. Right.
and and you look at that picture and you
think there's no way anybody's going to
mistake that for any kind of craft debris.
debris.
So, what was Jesse Marcel thinking or
did was it as they claimed that they
switched the debris, right? And I think
it's more likely they switched the debris.
debris.
>> Well, Marcel claimed that the the real
UFO debris was off to the side right
outside of the frame that frame. Did he
say that?
>> He did. Yeah. He also said he brought it
home and that his son played with it.
>> He showed it with his son. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So I think he would know the difference.
>> He would know the difference. Right. So
So then there there's the picture of
General Ramy and he's holding a memo
that you can see in the photographs and
it's a clearly a it's stamped top secret
and I thought what does that memo say?
And so me and one of my colleagues at
NASA because we were I was in the
intelligent systems division. So our job
was to develop um machine learning
systems to analyze data. And so we were
doing a lot of work with imagery.
>> I worked with Hubble imagery and I
thought why don't we try to clean why
don't we try cleaning up this memo and
see what the memo says. So we actually
wrote the algorithms to actually read
this this memo. and um wrote them, got
them running and we're testing them and
um and we just didn't have the computer
power at the time. It was a 300
megahertz machines we were working on
and you know we couldn't use the
supercomputer for this. So we couldn't
get away with that, right? We could get
away with using the 300 MHz computer um
on this and um it just didn't have the
computing power and computing time to do
it. So, so we abandoned the project, but
but we had thought that we were going to
we're going, you know, our little dream
was all right, we're going to figure out
what this memo says and then we're going
to publish it as a NASA publication,
>> but it's going to be buried as an example.
example.
>> We're going to the publication will be
on our methodology and our algorithm and
then we'll have several examples and one
of them will be the Roswell memo and
then we'll make it public and make it an
official NASA publication. Right? That
was that was our little plan, right?
Yeah, our sneaky plant and it just
didn't work out because we couldn't
analyze that imagery, right? But this is
but this is what's going on behind the
scenes and all at probably a lot of
government labs people are doing stuff
like this.
>> You know, maybe not trying to publish
it, but um
>> but trying to figure out if they can get
something to work or try something interesting.
interesting.
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So it's like there is this UFO truth.
You have, you know, various crashes. You
have various maybe scientific frameworks
that are not public. And then you just
have a bunch of vigilante efforts in
little pockets and compartment
attempting things. You got people, smart
people trying things. And it's, you
know, I think what, you know, John, I
think it was John Stewart said, "Isn't
it amazing what scientists can do when
no one makes them stop?"
>> And I think that's all it is. It's no
one's making them stop and they're
discovering things and
>> some of them are useful, some aren't.
And some are really interesting and some
they feel they probably shouldn't talk
about and I think that it's that simple. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> In a lot of cases.
>> Yeah. It's so fascinating. You have an
interesting theory around water worlds
and you know water being this really
important kind of variable for UFO
transport. Do you want to uh explain that?
that?
>> Yeah. Well, there's a few Yeah. So it
is why you know I was at one point
wondering why are there so many USOs
submerged unidentified submerged craft?
Why is that such a big thing? And um
and when you think about living on a
planet um living under an atmosphere is
horrible. It's difficult. The weather is
the the the conditions change every day.
They change daily, you know, hourly
even. And I'm coming down here from
Albany. I'm down here to Austin. You
know, we had snowstorm this weekend in
Albany or north of Albany. I drove
through it from Montreal to Albany
through a snowstorm. Um, and now we're
down here and it's what 60° and sunny
and I hope to go to the botanical garden
before I leave or something. Right. So,
the atmospheres are very
>> are quite variable. Now, now you go from
Earth to Venus. Venus's atmosphere has
100 times the air pressure on Earth,
>> which would crush you.
>> And it's about 800° Fahrenheit. And
actually, I was at NASA as when the
Mellan probe was doing radar mapping of
Venus. And we were perplexed because the
mountain tops
>> would become radar reflective
>> at times and then it would fade. And
then they would become reflective again
and fade. And we were like, what's going
on with this these mountain tops? And
realized they would become reflective
when the temperature would drop. So the
temperature would drop, the mountain
tops would become radar reflective. And
they realized what was happening is
vaporized lead and bismouth
was making was actually um making snowflakes.
snowflakes.
And so it was actually snowing leaden
bismouth snow on the mountain tops. I
mean, imagine what that would I can't
imagine what that would look like to
have metal snow. I want to go there and
actually see that. But that's what they
That's a cold day in hell, by the way,
>> when you've got metal snow raining on
the mountain tops.
>> So, that's what Venus's atmosphere is
like, right? And then you go to Mars,
and Mars has 1/100th
>> the atmospheric pressure of Earth. So,
you need a space suit and it's cold. You
know what? 100° below zero Fahrenheit,
something like that.
>> Colder than Antarctica temperatures. So
now, so now comparing Venus to Mars, the
temperature difference is is
a factor of 10,000
>> different. It's huge. And now you
consider a water world, water
is only liquid from 0° C to 100° C,
right? So you've got as long as you have
liquid water, you you are in that
temperature range. You're not going out
of it. And so it's much more stable
temperature- wise. The pressure varies
with depth dramatically. I mean,
atmospheric pressure varies with
atmospheric height as well, but but
because water is so much more dense,
it's much more dramatic. So, you can
control what pressure you like by
controlling the depth. And um
and water has such a high heat capacity,
the temperature doesn't change that
much. You don't have the temperature
fluctuations of water temperature that
you do in an air temperature.
So, it's a much more stable environment.
You're protected from solar radiation.
You're protected from ultraviolet rays.
You're protected from cosmic rays.
You're protected from, you know, small
meteorites at least. Um, it's and it's a
great place to hide electromagnetism.
Electromagnetic waves don't travel far
in water, so you can't see far. You
can't detect things with
electromagnetism very well. And which is
why we use sonar, right? And um so it's
a great place to hide. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> it's so there's every reason to go to
the water. Um
>> it's fascinating. So if you were like a
cardv three or four scale civilization
and you wanted to colonize a bunch of
other planets, water is the perfect
hideout spot. It's evidence. >> Water.
>> Water.
>> Yeah. Well, that's the other thing. So
you you only have you only have a couple
choices, right? So if you're going to go
col colonize another star system,
>> you've got to carry everything you need
to do it with you, right? So getting
already the traveling is hard. It's
going to be hard for anybody. Um but but
bringing everything you need to to build
up a base or some kind of settlement is
is going to be extra difficult. So So
you really have have a few options. And
um water worlds we now know are
relatively common. You know, we have
several water worlds in our in our solar
system. Mostly most of them are frozen
moons, icy surfaces, but there's oceans
underneath, right? So, you can either
you can either plan to colonize
you can either just plan to stay in your
spaceships, right? We're just going to
live in our spaceships. That's probably
the easiest thing to do, right? Um
or to colonize airless worlds like the
moon, which is no different than staying
in your spaceship. Um but then the other
option is to live on a planet. And if
you want to live on a planet to access
its resources, you're either going to go
with an airless world and stay in your
spaceship. Um, or the next most
reasonable choice would go to be to go
to water.
>> Yeah. And so it's it's also evidence, as
you said, of this kind of Goldilocks
temperature zone. I think water is
specifically unique as well because the
way that hydrogen and oxygen bond in an
H2O molecule is a perfect crystal
lattice structure. And so it's unique in
that the solid form of it is actually
less dense than the liquid form of it.
So you end up with, you know, these
worlds that don't flood because you end
up with a lot of lot of ice. Um, and so,
you know, that's fascinating as well.
And then I think that the final thing on
the UFO front is you're talking about
tons and tons of power. Uh, if you were
to theoretically break hydrogen and
oxygen bonds in H2O, you would get a ton
of power.
>> Yeah. Yeah, you can use water for for
storing energy that way.
>> Yeah. Or for fuel.
>> And then seas and you know seas have
dissolved minerals in them. So
>> you could I mean it's not a fast
process, but you can you could extract
any kind of mineral you want.
>> Any atom any atom you want you can
probably pull out of seawater. You know
whether you can do it fast enough to get
a substantial amount is really the
question. But so but that would be
easier than mining, right?
>> Do you think there are UFO bases in our
oceans? Tim Berschett recently said
there are five uh oceanic hot spots
across the world.
>> We have a higher propensity of sightings
around these five or six I believe deep
area deep water areas. And so to me it
just um it creates a um a question there.
there.
>> Do you think there are UFO bases?
>> I think that's probably that that's
probably the best bet. >> Really?
>> Really? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And you went to Catalina, right?
>> Went to Catalina. which is one of the
it's off the coast of Southern
California and a lot of people think
it's this UFO hotspot. There's a great
um book I think it's called under
underwater or undersea UFO base by
Preston Dennit, right?
>> And there's a ton of history in the
region. And so what did you find when
you went out there?
>> Yeah. Well, we we spent we spent 5 days
on a rooftop in Laguna Beach and
watching the skies and um
and it's all documented in the the movie
A Tear in the Sky. So um and the movie
best documents what the
the
basically how the mission progressed,
right? And so it's one of the first, you
know, universities supported
UFO data collection missions that that
we know of has happened. Right. So um so
there's a lot of excitement. There's a
lot of excitement in that movie and
that's real excitement, right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And um and we did see we did see some
interesting things that um and so here
comes some spoilers
and and so I'm going to spoil things
twice. So, so there's at one point
there's a bright light that's seen from
the team in Catalina Island which is
across the Catalina channel. We had two
two teams.
>> They spotted this bright light that was
moving um and they said it's too bright
to be a satellite. It's it's you know
going in this direction. So, we're we're
looking for it as well. So, we recorded
this object and um then it just abruptly
disappears and which is very strange.
And um and the problem with
documentaries is that yes, it takes a
long time to make a film, maybe a year
to two years in some cases. Um science
takes a lot longer.
>> We're a lot slower.
>> And um so the scientific study of what
the data we collected took a lot longer
and that got published just last year.
So our mission was what in 2021, tear in
the sky, I think came out in 2023,
something like that. And our scientific
paper on the mission came out just this summer.
summer.
>> Um, Matthew Shadagus was the first
author of that paper. And so we found
that that bright light was the space station.
station.
>> Um, why didn't we figure that out
earlier? The app we were using to track
satellites didn't take into account
daylight savings time.
>> A stupid mistake, right, that we
shouldn't have made. But
>> this is your first time doing this sort
of thing. And you make and and I
remember telling Matthew on our way,
>> the space station looks weird, by the
way. And it looks really like a UFO. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> And I remember telling Matthew on the
airplane, he you know, we were both
excited. Oh, this is going to be so much
fun. Think imagine what we can see. And
I said,
>> "Yeah, but the problem is we're just
what we're probably going to learn is
what not to do,
>> right?" And that's really what happened
that first mission. We learned how not
to do it.
>> Um, but Matthew is the one who figured
out it was the space station. and he put
it all together and he actually took the
pixel size on the camera
>> and then um knowing the altitude of the
space station figured out how big the
space station should be and he was
within one foot
>> of the side of the space size of the
space station. It's really a nice
analysis he does. We put it in the
appendex and
>> um and yeah something to be proud of the
fact that yeah we identified it to be
the space station and actually proved it
right. So, that's cool.
>> Um, another another event that happened
was these um one of the fleer cameras
was showing these objects dropping into
the sea and um and I was actually at the
time looking through night vision
goggles. This didn't end up in the movie
and people were too excited about the
fleer camera to hear me shouting about
the night. I was telling people, "Put on
your night vision goggles and look over
here." Um, but I saw something actually
drop and hit the water in infrared. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> Um,
>> Um,
>> you got that on video?
>> No. No. I was just looking through the
goggles watching for things. And um,
>> but it was through infrared.
>> It was in infrared. Yeah. And then then
um and I think they tried to simulate
this in the film, but it's not simulated
properly. They showed this thing
hovering. It wasn't It just dropped. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> But but the fleer cameras recorded
things dropping into the sea. And we um
>> So you think you saw a UFO? I don't know
what I saw actually but because but but
I was excited because it happened about
the same time the fleer camera was
showing things dropping but then we
figured out later that the fleer camera
was actually malfunctioning and that's
and that's a failure mode of the flare
cameras. We actually talked to the
engineers who worked on something.
>> Yeah, these things falling down is
actually a failure mode.
>> Oh, so maybe it was an issue with the camera.
camera.
>> So, so the flare camera recording we had
was not something dropping into the sea.
Um, I don't know what I saw and probably
will never know because you can't has to
be reproducible, right? You have to be
able to see it again and try different things.
things.
>> Is there a best sensor modality if
you're trying to spot UFOs?
>> I think as many sensors as you can
>> is there one say you had to pick one and
you had to you know what what would you pick?
pick?
>> If I picked one, I would try. That's tough.
tough.
I think I would go with a fleer camera
is a good choice for a few reasons. One,
you get a visual record of the object.
It's not a very good visual record
because it's going to be blurry because
it's infrared.
>> I've heard people complain, "Oh, the
Navy produces all these in these blurry
photos of UFOs." Well, they're infrared
images. What do you expect? I've heard
scientists say this, and you want to
slap them upside the head and say, "What
did you think was going to happen?"
>> And so, you know, but the other benefit
of is for with a flare camera is you can
measure the temperature of the object. M
>> because you're picking up infrared um
emissions, right? So those
>> that black body infrared spectrum
actually gives you the temperature of
the object. So
>> where where white hot comes from.
>> Yeah. So now so so not only do you get a
visual record of the object, but you get
its temperature too, which is which is
in you get extra pieces of information
for that. So for that reason, I probably
would choose a fleer camera. Is there a
sighting or a crash that you rank as
highest conviction as far as your
analysis of it that like you you are
convinced that this happened? >> Oh,
I would have to say
the most convincing one is one of the
most hard to believe ones. It's um JAL
Airlines 6 JAL 1628.
>> It was a Japan Airlines cargo flight
piloted by Captain Kenju Teruchi. This
is the sketch Tuchi drew of what he says
he saw at his window that night. And
this Japanese television graphic is
based on his description.
>> This is just a small space ship. We can see
see
big. This one is size is
carrier. to mother ships
>> and I and I remember I remember that
being on the nightly news. I remember
watching it was on NBC
Tom Broka Connie Chung. I remember that
being on the news and being holy [ __ ]
there's giant aircraft carriers sized
walnutshaped UFO followed that Japanese
Airlines for 45 minutes across Alaska.
>> Wild give us the whole sequence.
>> Yeah. So they've got So the
Japanese airlines they it's a it's not a
passenger jet. It's a 747. They are
transporting Boule Nuvo. Yep. They got
wine in the back. Let the skeptics
rejoice. No, the pilots were not drunk
on Ballet Nuvo. That's just a silly thing.
thing.
>> They're just transporting it.
>> Yeah, they're just transporting it. And
they're flying across Alaska. And and
first I I don't remember all the events.
Several things happened. They actually
saw several UFOs. First, these
rectangular things show up in front of
the ship and have these lights that go
up and down shining light into the
cockpit. And the the pilots could feel
the heat from the light of these objects
and they're like scanning or you know
like that kind of behavior. Um, and they
follow in front of the plane for some
time and then um, and then this giant walnut-shaped
walnut-shaped
object shows up that's something like
4747s in length. Right? So, this thing's
the thing's the size of an aircraft
carrier. And the the pilot said that
when it was in front of the plane, he
couldn't see anything but the craft.
It's it's it's that big. So, it's
unmistakable. I mean, and he's screaming
at air traffic control,
you know, what do I do about this? And
they're not picking it up on radar. And
so, um, it was later found that military
heightf finding radar was picking it up.
And so that radar actually that those
radar records actually got collected.
And um, and so this walnutshaped craft
basically follow the 747 for about 45
minutes. stayed about seven kilometers
away, but it would go from one side of
the plane to the other. It was bouncing
around from one side to the other. And
um and we analyzed its
speed and acceleration just crudely
based on the description of what it was
doing. So it would go so at one point it
would be at like 1:00 and then the next
sweep of the radar, which is about 12
seconds or so, would be would be at 6:00. And so we were using those
6:00. And so we were using those that information to estimate speeds and
that information to estimate speeds and accelerations. Um Daniel Kumbbe another
accelerations. Um Daniel Kumbbe another um physicist from the Neils Boore
um physicist from the Neils Boore Institute actually took the radar. I
Institute actually took the radar. I didn't I didn't know that we could get
didn't I didn't know that we could get our hands on the radar measurements when
our hands on the radar measurements when we published that paper. But he actually
we published that paper. But he actually got the radar data and he analyzed that.
got the radar data and he analyzed that. He was analyzing the jumps and he found
He was analyzing the jumps and he found that the object was accelerating at took
that the object was accelerating at took several dumps jumps different
several dumps jumps different accelerations at different times. But
accelerations at different times. But there were three three of them were the
there were three three of them were the accelerations were greater than 9,000
accelerations were greater than 9,000 gs.
gs. One of them was like 11,000 gs. And the
One of them was like 11,000 gs. And the top speed he estimated to be 250,000 m
top speed he estimated to be 250,000 m an hour.
an hour. And at 250,000 mph, you can get to the
And at 250,000 mph, you can get to the moon in 54 minutes.
moon in 54 minutes. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> That's That's not a joke. You got so
>> That's That's not a joke. You got so you've got something the size of an
you've got something the size of an aircraft carrier that could get to the
aircraft carrier that could get to the moon in less than an hour, right? That's
moon in less than an hour, right? That's basically what you you're dealing with
basically what you you're dealing with here. So that's and we have and we have
here. So that's and we have and we have the radar data from that.
the radar data from that. >> We have the radar data.
>> We have the radar data. >> You have the radar data.
>> You have the radar data. >> That's amazing. I didn't know that.
>> That's amazing. I didn't know that. >> That's amazing. Yeah. John Callahan, who
>> That's amazing. Yeah. John Callahan, who was the FAA
was the FAA chief of accidents and investigations,
chief of accidents and investigations, actually reviewed the case and then
actually reviewed the case and then Reagan, President Reagan's scientific
Reagan, President Reagan's scientific team and the CIA showed up and they
team and the CIA showed up and they wanted all the data.
wanted all the data. >> No way.
>> No way. >> And so they came to collect the data.
>> And so they came to collect the data. Callahan copied it and put it in a box
Callahan copied it and put it in a box that he just put under his desk.
that he just put under his desk. And so he had a copy of it and he didn't
And so he had a copy of it and he didn't turn that over. So they got
turn that over. So they got >> And that's public now.
>> And that's public now. >> And now that's public.
>> And now that's public. >> He held on to it for like 20 years and
>> He held on to it for like 20 years and then when he retired he made it public.
then when he retired he made it public. >> Good for him.
>> Good for him. >> Yeah. He's a hero, right? That's
>> Yeah. He's a hero, right? That's amazing.
amazing. >> Yeah. But he said so when he was in the
>> Yeah. But he said so when he was in the meeting with Reagan's scientific team,
meeting with Reagan's scientific team, they were all excited. They said, "We've
they were all excited. They said, "We've never had 45 minutes of radar data from
never had 45 minutes of radar data from one of these things before."
one of these things before." >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> And so um so that exists, but but from
>> And so um so that exists, but but from that radar data, it's accelerating at
that radar data, it's accelerating at 10,000 gs, 250,000 miles an hour. And
10,000 gs, 250,000 miles an hour. And and you can actually see the position of
and you can actually see the position of the plane on the radar. The one point
the plane on the radar. The one point where the plane actually does a 360 to
where the plane actually does a 360 to try to shake this thing. You can
try to shake this thing. You can actually see that on the radar. So the
actually see that on the radar. So the radar is working.
radar is working. >> Is the Are the pilots still alive?
>> Is the Are the pilots still alive? >> Yeah, I think so.
>> Yeah, I think so. >> I want to get in touch with that.
>> I want to get in touch with that. >> Yeah, I'm sure. The one pilot was
>> Yeah, I'm sure. The one pilot was actually fired.
actually fired. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> For going public with it. He was fired
>> For going public with it. He was fired and had his license taken away and then
and had his license taken away and then several years later was reinstated.
several years later was reinstated. >> That's horrible that he was fired for
>> That's horrible that he was fired for that. I mean, what what are you supposed
that. I mean, what what are you supposed you experienced something that kind of
you experienced something that kind of traumatic and and world view shattering?
traumatic and and world view shattering? >> What what would lying about it be a
>> What what would lying about it be a better thing to do for flight safety?
better thing to do for flight safety? >> You're right.
>> You're right. >> I think that's really the question.
>> I think that's really the question. >> Just ignore it. Yeah. That's crazy. Um
>> Just ignore it. Yeah. That's crazy. Um fascinating. You know, there's that
fascinating. You know, there's that audio recording of Steven Spielberg, I
audio recording of Steven Spielberg, I believe, talking about his trip to the
believe, talking about his trip to the White House and um they do a viewing of
White House and um they do a viewing of ET.
ET. >> Oh, right. I've heard this. Yes. And
>> Oh, right. I've heard this. Yes. And Reagan says, uh, you know, a lot of you
Reagan says, uh, you know, a lot of you in this room know that everything on
in this room know that everything on that screen there that you just watched
that screen there that you just watched is true.
is true. >> And he just stood up and he looked
>> And he just stood up and he looked around the room almost like he was doing
around the room almost like he was doing a headcount. And he said, I want to
a headcount. And he said, I want to thank you for bringing ET to the White
thank you for bringing ET to the White House. We really enjoyed your movie. And
House. We really enjoyed your movie. And then he looked around the room and he
then he looked around the room and he said, "And there are a number of people
said, "And there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on
in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true." And he
that screen is absolutely true." And he said it without smiling. Um um but he
said it without smiling. Um um but he but but but he he said that and
but but but he he said that and everybody laughed by the way the whole
everybody laughed by the way the whole room laughed because he presented it
room laughed because he presented it like a joke but he wasn't smiling as he
like a joke but he wasn't smiling as he said it
said it >> and so pretty interesting right
>> and so pretty interesting right >> that's interesting right
>> that's interesting right >> yeah well that's fascinating that people
>> yeah well that's fascinating that people from his scientific team I mean it
from his scientific team I mean it sounds like they were pretty aware of
sounds like they were pretty aware of this to to say oh we've we've never had
this to to say oh we've we've never had 45 minutes but it's like that implies
45 minutes but it's like that implies okay you're sitting on maybe you know
okay you're sitting on maybe you know shorter clips of UFOs
shorter clips of UFOs >> yeah they've got something That's
>> yeah they've got something That's something. Yeah. I mean, Alaska is a hot
something. Yeah. I mean, Alaska is a hot spot historically uh as well. I believe
spot historically uh as well. I believe um Nathan Twining, who's head of air
um Nathan Twining, who's head of air material command, responsible for all
material command, responsible for all aircraft development of the Air Force,
aircraft development of the Air Force, wrote the famous Twining memo in 1947
wrote the famous Twining memo in 1947 saying UFOs are not vision visionary nor
saying UFOs are not vision visionary nor fictitious, right?
fictitious, right? >> Um he he uh I believe they had like an
>> Um he he uh I believe they had like an observation program going on in Alaska.
observation program going on in Alaska. And then just recently you had it was
And then just recently you had it was this weird sequence of events, but in
this weird sequence of events, but in 2020, early 2023, you had the Chinese
2020, early 2023, you had the Chinese spy balloon.
spy balloon. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> And then right after that, you had this
>> And then right after that, you had this bizarre, you know, these things seem to
bizarre, you know, these things seem to show up and like jam, you know, the
show up and like jam, you know, the radars of these F-22s. And one of them
radars of these F-22s. And one of them specifically was in Alaska
specifically was in Alaska >> and crashed. And I've heard some very
>> and crashed. And I've heard some very strange things around this specific
strange things around this specific craft. I've heard things like it
craft. I've heard things like it reassembled itself and was seen in the
reassembled itself and was seen in the air over Canada. I' bizarre.
air over Canada. I' bizarre. >> I've heard something I've heard
something about deleted emails involving this specific craft uh the National
this specific craft uh the National Military Command Center servers. So I I
Military Command Center servers. So I I don't know. It seems like there's
don't know. It seems like there's something strange about this craft and
something strange about this craft and this this was also in Alaska. So
this this was also in Alaska. So >> right, who knows?
>> right, who knows? >> That's amazing.
>> That's amazing. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing to know
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing to know that, you know, his scientific Reagan
that, you know, his scientific Reagan scientific team had gotten that data.
scientific team had gotten that data. What did they do with it? What is, you
What did they do with it? What is, you know, what are what are their reports? I
know, what are what are their reports? I would like to see that. You know, the
would like to see that. You know, the you know, disclose those. That would be
you know, disclose those. That would be interesting. You know, alone. Um the
interesting. You know, alone. Um the Kexsburg, Pennsylvania
Kexsburg, Pennsylvania UFO
UFO crash.
crash. >> Yeah. 1965.
>> Yeah. 1965. >> Yeah. And my my dad's cousin, Donald
>> Yeah. And my my dad's cousin, Donald Hornig, he was later the president of
Hornig, he was later the president of Brown University was was on
Brown University was was on he was the scientific adviser to
he was the scientific adviser to presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and
presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson. What? Yeah, that was my dad's
Johnson. What? Yeah, that was my dad's my dad's cousin did that. In fact, he
my dad's cousin did that. In fact, he he's the person who he designed the the
he's the person who he designed the the electronic triggers for the the um
electronic triggers for the the um plutonium bomb.
plutonium bomb. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> In the um Manhattan project.
>> In the um Manhattan project. >> What was his name? Donald Hornig.
>> What was his name? Donald Hornig. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> And and the night before the first test
>> And and the night before the first test in Trinity that he was Oenheimer gave
in Trinity that he was Oenheimer gave him a sidearm and had him babysit the
him a sidearm and had him babysit the bomb up in the tower during a
bomb up in the tower during a thunderstorm.
thunderstorm. >> What?
>> What? >> And and I was surprised that they didn't
>> And and I was surprised that they didn't put that in the movie Oppenheimer
put that in the movie Oppenheimer because it's an awesome story, but the
because it's an awesome story, but the movie is about Oenheimer, not about the
movie is about Oenheimer, not about the Manhattan Project. But but he was um
Manhattan Project. But but he was um Yes. So that was and his wife was but
Yes. So that was and his wife was but his wife was in the movie. Lenny Lily
his wife was in the movie. Lenny Lily Hornig was in the movie. She was the
Hornig was in the movie. She was the woman who came from Harvard and um some
woman who came from Harvard and um some of the things she actually said, she
of the things she actually said, she told us this at dinner once we visited
told us this at dinner once we visited her in Rhode Island when she was still
her in Rhode Island when she was still alive, but she said when she got to um
alive, but she said when she got to um Los Alamos and was being interviewed for
Los Alamos and was being interviewed for a position, they asked her how fast she
a position, they asked her how fast she typed and she goes, "They don't teach
typed and she goes, "They don't teach typing at Harvard." And they used that
typing at Harvard." And they used that line in the movie, which was great.
line in the movie, which was great. Whoa, that is fascinating.
Whoa, that is fascinating. >> So, but I but so I mentioned that
>> So, but I but so I mentioned that because um because Donald Hering was was
because um because Donald Hering was was the chief scientific adviser to
the chief scientific adviser to President Johnson
President Johnson >> who was president during the Kexsburg
>> who was president during the Kexsburg crash. And I found I had actually found
crash. And I found I had actually found a document about the Kexsburg UFO and
a document about the Kexsburg UFO and Donald Horn was listed as being present.
Donald Horn was listed as being present. >> I thought, "Oh my god." And I I didn't
>> I thought, "Oh my god." And I I didn't never got to meet him. Um, and and I did
never got to meet him. Um, and and I did I did ask his wife, Lily, about it, but
I did ask his wife, Lily, about it, but she didn't know
she didn't know >> what document.
>> what document. >> Uh, I don't know. I maybe I have to look
>> Uh, I don't know. I maybe I have to look for it. There was some kind of summary
for it. There was some kind of summary about the Kexsburg crash and something.
about the Kexsburg crash and something. It was some kind of government summary.
It was some kind of government summary. >> Official official government.
>> Official official government. >> Official. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Official. Yeah. Yeah. >> And
>> And >> but he was listed as being present,
>> but he was listed as being present, which he should have been. So I was
which he should have been. So I was like, wow, this is pretty.
like, wow, this is pretty. >> But that's that's even absent the fact
>> But that's that's even absent the fact that he's your dad's cousin, which is a
that he's your dad's cousin, which is a remarkable synchronicity. The fact that
remarkable synchronicity. The fact that a pre the presidential science adviser
a pre the presidential science adviser is on site at a UFO crash
is on site at a UFO crash >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> is amazing unto itself.
>> is amazing unto itself. >> Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's a good
>> Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's a good point.
point. >> That's a really big deal. I think Eric
>> That's a really big deal. I think Eric Walker was supposedly present as well at
Walker was supposedly present as well at the Cexsburg crash. He was the um I
the Cexsburg crash. He was the um I believe president of Penn State and he
believe president of Penn State and he was kind of a material science guy. I
was kind of a material science guy. I don't know if you know anything about
don't know if you know anything about him.
him. >> He's an interesting guy.
>> He's an interesting guy. >> Wow. who like seems to imply to many
>> Wow. who like seems to imply to many researchers, UFO researchers, that he's
researchers, UFO researchers, that he's very aware of the Majestic 12 and what
very aware of the Majestic 12 and what they do and you know, who knows,
they do and you know, who knows, >> right?
>> right? >> I don't know. Do Do you lend credence to
>> I don't know. Do Do you lend credence to any of those sorts of stories? The idea
any of those sorts of stories? The idea that they're sort of an elite military
that they're sort of an elite military scientific
scientific >> I I can't I I wouldn't be surprised if
>> I I can't I I wouldn't be surprised if they were true.
they were true. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um I don't know if I would just jump on
>> Um I don't know if I would just jump on believing they're true without any
believing they're true without any evidence, but um
evidence, but um >> Yeah. But, you know, if I was if I found
>> Yeah. But, you know, if I was if I found out they were true, I wouldn't it
out they were true, I wouldn't it wouldn't shock me at all.
wouldn't shock me at all. >> Well, it's like if the UFO issue is real
>> Well, it's like if the UFO issue is real and understood at the highest levels of
and understood at the highest levels of government, of course, they would have
government, of course, they would have some sort of elite body some kind of
some sort of elite body some kind of group of and if it's not a formal group,
group of and if it's not a formal group, there's probably informal groups and
there's probably informal groups and >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> All all that sort of thing. Yeah.
>> All all that sort of thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. Do you think, you know, we've
>> Yeah. Do you think, you know, we've mentioned the nuclear connection a bunch
mentioned the nuclear connection a bunch in this uh conversation. Do you think
in this uh conversation. Do you think that uh not only UFOs are just showing
that uh not only UFOs are just showing up around nuclear sites, but that the
up around nuclear sites, but that the secrecy uh involved in the Atomic Energy
secrecy uh involved in the Atomic Energy Commission and the Department of Energy
Commission and the Department of Energy uh overlays UFO secrecy and that the
uh overlays UFO secrecy and that the program is somehow bound up in, you
program is somehow bound up in, you know, atomic stuff?
know, atomic stuff? >> Well, that's a good question, too. Yeah,
>> Well, that's a good question, too. Yeah, it's not clear how
I mean what it what it it looks like the the an SEU did a study of this of UFOs
the an SEU did a study of this of UFOs monitoring nuclear sites. And so it
monitoring nuclear sites. And so it looks like
looks like whoever is behind the whole UFO
whoever is behind the whole UFO business, whoever these guys are have
business, whoever these guys are have been performing, you know, surveillance
been performing, you know, surveillance this whole time. They're surveilling us
this whole time. They're surveilling us and and it's intelligent surveillance.
and and it's intelligent surveillance. They know what they're doing.
They know what they're doing. >> And in fact, the SCEU study showed that
>> And in fact, the SCEU study showed that >> not only do you So when you they
>> not only do you So when you they compared UFO sightings at nuclear sites
compared UFO sightings at nuclear sites compared to nearby military bases and
compared to nearby military bases and nearby population centers and the
nearby population centers and the nuclear sites have more, you know, in
nuclear sites have more, you know, in the early 40s had more um UFO sightings
the early 40s had more um UFO sightings than any of the other places.
than any of the other places. >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> Nearby. So it shows that it's stat
>> Nearby. So it shows that it's stat statistically significant that they're
statistically significant that they're hanging out at nuclear sites.
hanging out at nuclear sites. >> Now what's weird about it is that they
>> Now what's weird about it is that they are present at the nuclear sites before
are present at the nuclear sites before we before they were totally constructed.
we before they were totally constructed. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> And before they had nuclear material
>> And before they had nuclear material there, radioactive material there.
there, radioactive material there. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So while some of these sites were being
>> So while some of these sites were being built, UFOs were present.
built, UFOs were present. >> That's definitely right.
>> That's definitely right. >> So now you're like, wait a minute, how
>> So now you're like, wait a minute, how did they know that something important
did they know that something important is going to be there? Right. How do they
is going to be there? Right. How do they know what they know?
know what they know? >> There's something about nuclear that
>> There's something about nuclear that they're really concerned with or
they're really concerned with or interested in. There's I think in 1945
interested in. There's I think in 1945 there's a pilot named Bud Clem and he's
there's a pilot named Bud Clem and he's flying over Hanford plutonium base and
flying over Hanford plutonium base and it was like yeah before the thing was
it was like yeah before the thing was fully up
fully up >> and he's seeing UFOs and uh Robert
>> and he's seeing UFOs and uh Robert Hastings has an interview with him. When
Hastings has an interview with him. When we got down there, they told us that
we got down there, they told us that this bogey was out there right over the
this bogey was out there right over the Hanford Ordinance Works and directed the
Hanford Ordinance Works and directed the Lieutenant Commander Brown to take off
Lieutenant Commander Brown to take off and challenge him.
and challenge him. >> And I think I mentioned him in our
>> And I think I mentioned him in our paper. I've got the um
paper. I've got the um >> we published a paper this year on the
>> we published a paper this year on the scientific study of UAP and basically
scientific study of UAP and basically goes through the history of how people
goes through the history of how people have tried to study this.
have tried to study this. >> And I and I mentioned Bud Bud Clem's
>> And I and I mentioned Bud Bud Clem's sightings at at Hanford there.
sightings at at Hanford there. >> Yeah. It's so it's so fascinating that
>> Yeah. It's so it's so fascinating that that connection is and there all these
that connection is and there all these theories you can one can have. One is
theories you can one can have. One is that they're sort of doing some sort of
that they're sort of doing some sort of intelligence recon or something and then
intelligence recon or something and then another is that they're just protecting
another is that they're just protecting their resources somehow the earth
their resources somehow the earth maintaining itself in its current form
maintaining itself in its current form is is important or maybe we're a
is is important or maybe we're a resource you humans are a resource to
resource you humans are a resource to them and so they need to intervene and
them and so they need to intervene and ensure you know things don't we don't
ensure you know things don't we don't blow ourselves up or something
blow ourselves up or something >> but it's it's really hard to say. I
>> but it's it's really hard to say. I mean, I know like the Age of Disclosure
mean, I know like the Age of Disclosure Lou Alzando, you know, kind of crew like
Lou Alzando, you know, kind of crew like they talk about it as far as like uh
they talk about it as far as like uh they're monitoring our ability to
they're monitoring our ability to achieve energy breakthroughs. So, that
achieve energy breakthroughs. So, that would be the tip of the spear of energy
would be the tip of the spear of energy breakthroughs like high energy physics
breakthroughs like high energy physics occurs in the national labs and your,
occurs in the national labs and your, you know, atomic sites and that sort of
you know, atomic sites and that sort of thing. And, you know, we could we could
thing. And, you know, we could we could break out of our our cage or something
break out of our our cage or something if we if we achieve some unlock. And so,
if we if we achieve some unlock. And so, there humans are a hot mess, right? And
there humans are a hot mess, right? And so if they if they're
so if they if they're >> present in the universe and in our
>> present in the universe and in our neighborhood and then right now they
neighborhood and then right now they don't have to deal with us directly, but
don't have to deal with us directly, but if we go out there they might have to
if we go out there they might have to deal with us. I think Stanton Freeman
deal with us. I think Stanton Freeman put it this way. It's kind of like
put it this way. It's kind of like you've got a neighborhood where you've
you've got a neighborhood where you've got this one house on the block with
got this one house on the block with crazy neighbors. There's always the
crazy neighbors. There's always the police are always there. There's
police are always there. There's screaming and yelling and things
screaming and yelling and things breaking and you can hear that going on
breaking and you can hear that going on in the house in the block. And then one
in the house in the block. And then one day the neighbors come out of the out of
day the neighbors come out of the out of the house and they're in the yard and
the house and they're in the yard and now you have to deal with them, right?
now you have to deal with them, right? And so he was he was describing human
And so he was he was describing human the humanity this way and I thought
the humanity this way and I thought that's pretty good pretty good
that's pretty good pretty good description.
description. >> Yeah. No, that that feels pretty pretty
>> Yeah. No, that that feels pretty pretty apt to me.
apt to me. >> I want to talk cuz you're in a a I think
>> I want to talk cuz you're in a a I think very unique vantage point as somebody
very unique vantage point as somebody who uh is at the intersection of kind of
who uh is at the intersection of kind of credible physics and then kind of very
credible physics and then kind of very speculative UFO, you know, interest. Uh
speculative UFO, you know, interest. Uh there are a couple of interesting
there are a couple of interesting objects of interest of late that kind of
objects of interest of late that kind of you know hit that intersection. The
you know hit that intersection. The first I want to talk about is actually
first I want to talk about is actually this discovery of um Beatatric Valale at
this discovery of um Beatatric Valale at Stockholm University who you know I I
Stockholm University who you know I I had the pleasure of interviewing her and
had the pleasure of interviewing her and she was looking at the Palmer
she was looking at the Palmer Observatory which was the most you know
Observatory which was the most you know inuse observatory you know in kind of
inuse observatory you know in kind of mid-century in the US. that's in San
mid-century in the US. that's in San Diego. And she found over a 100,000 in
Diego. And she found over a 100,000 in an 8-year period what appeared to be
an 8-year period what appeared to be UFOs, mirror like objects, little
UFOs, mirror like objects, little transients, light flashes, and um they
transients, light flashes, and um they seem to actually be correlated with
seem to actually be correlated with nuclear sites, too. There's like a
nuclear sites, too. There's like a follow-up study that they're 68% more
follow-up study that they're 68% more likely to show up a day before or after
likely to show up a day before or after a nuclear detonation. Um, so this is
a nuclear detonation. Um, so this is just fascinating study and and nobody in
just fascinating study and and nobody in the credentialed conventional physics
the credentialed conventional physics world has debunked it. It's been peer-
world has debunked it. It's been peer- reviewviewed and you have people like
reviewviewed and you have people like Sabina Hosenfelder and Brian Keading,
Sabina Hosenfelder and Brian Keading, you know, people you don't think of as
you know, people you don't think of as like UFO nuts, right? Like going on, you
like UFO nuts, right? Like going on, you know, YouTube and saying like this
know, YouTube and saying like this actually seems kind of intriguing. So
actually seems kind of intriguing. So what what do you make of it?
what what do you make of it? >> Oh, it's I mean her that's the Vasco
>> Oh, it's I mean her that's the Vasco project. I mean it's an excellent idea
project. I mean it's an excellent idea for a project. you've got all of these
for a project. you've got all of these photographic plates from the 1940s
photographic plates from the 1940s that um
that um that if you have something in orbit, you
that if you have something in orbit, you might pick you might be able to detect
might pick you might be able to detect it in a photograph. Right? So that's the
it in a photograph. Right? So that's the that's the premise. Um and she she
that's the premise. Um and she she published a few early papers which I
published a few early papers which I found really interesting. The one you
found really interesting. The one you know the ones where you have a several
know the ones where you have a several of them like in a line or something like
of them like in a line or something like this and I thought I think that's
this and I thought I think that's fascinating. Um,
fascinating. Um, it's tough. The most recent papers with
it's tough. The most recent papers with 100,000, that's hard to believe. That
100,000, that's hard to believe. That would that's a little shocking.
would that's a little shocking. >> Um, that makes me worry that
>> Um, that makes me worry that you really have to double your efforts
you really have to double your efforts to look to make sure there's not an
to look to make sure there's not an artifact issue that you haven't
artifact issue that you haven't considered.
considered. >> Well, it's Yeah, it was 100,000 between
>> Well, it's Yeah, it was 100,000 between 1949 and 1957. The reason you'd ended in
1949 and 1957. The reason you'd ended in 1957 is because Sputnik goes up. So,
1957 is because Sputnik goes up. So, it's pre-satellites, which is that's
it's pre-satellites, which is that's remarkable. And it's they're all in
remarkable. And it's they're all in geostationary orbit, geo, so it's like
geostationary orbit, geo, so it's like the, you know, outer Earth's orbit.
the, you know, outer Earth's orbit. >> So, it's I think it's
>> So, it's I think it's >> it's pretty remarkable. That does seem
>> it's pretty remarkable. That does seem really high as well. I think she says
really high as well. I think she says there could be an air rate of up to 30%
there could be an air rate of up to 30% or something. So, that's a you know,
or something. So, that's a you know, it's a big margin.
it's a big margin. >> Yeah. But what what's remarkable is like
>> Yeah. But what what's remarkable is like when she put this out, the main
when she put this out, the main detraction, the main way people tried to
detraction, the main way people tried to kind of straw man or or you know beat
kind of straw man or or you know beat this thing was they said uh you know uh
this thing was they said uh you know uh these have to be plate defects. These
these have to be plate defects. These have to be sort of, you know, the the
have to be sort of, you know, the the the the astronomical plates, you know,
the the astronomical plates, you know, uh have all sorts of weird, you know,
uh have all sorts of weird, you know, chemical issues over long periods of
chemical issues over long periods of time and you end up with these sort of
time and you end up with these sort of stains and issues and then, you know,
stains and issues and then, you know, those could look like transients or
those could look like transients or UFOs.
UFOs. >> But then she followed up on the study
>> But then she followed up on the study and she said, "Is there a so obviously
and she said, "Is there a so obviously you have the sun, it's hitting the earth
you have the sun, it's hitting the earth and then you have the shadow of the
and then you have the shadow of the earth, right? You have kind of a dark
earth, right? You have kind of a dark side of the earth." She said, "Is um you
side of the earth." She said, "Is um you know, are these objects dropping off on
know, are these objects dropping off on the dark side of the Earth
the dark side of the Earth >> when when they shouldn't be being
>> when when they shouldn't be being illuminated by the sun?" I think that's
illuminated by the sun?" I think that's the idea, right?
the idea, right? >> That's right. Are they physical objects?
>> That's right. Are they physical objects? Are they reflecting off the sun? A, and
Are they reflecting off the sun? A, and B, if they're plate defects,
B, if they're plate defects, plate defects would not play favorites
plate defects would not play favorites between the Earth's shadow and, you
between the Earth's shadow and, you know, the the sun side of the Earth,
know, the the sun side of the Earth, right?
right? >> You should have the plate defect, right?
>> You should have the plate defect, right? Should be constant.
Should be constant. >> It would be completely proportional and
>> It would be completely proportional and constant. And so, uh, she found a, you
constant. And so, uh, she found a, you know, a serious drop off. And so, that
know, a serious drop off. And so, that seems like pretty significant.
seems like pretty significant. >> It's interesting. Yeah, certainly. It's
>> It's interesting. Yeah, certainly. It's interesting. I think it's, um, it's one
interesting. I think it's, um, it's one of the the
of the the I mean, the hallmark of science is
I mean, the hallmark of science is reproducibility, right? So, what you
reproducibility, right? So, what you need to have is you need to have other
need to have is you need to have other other labs look at those plates and
other labs look at those plates and actually do the study, try to replicate
actually do the study, try to replicate the study. And I think that's what needs
the study. And I think that's what needs to happen. And that's what she's
to happen. And that's what she's beautiful about her kind of orientation
beautiful about her kind of orientation towards this whole thing is she's now
towards this whole thing is she's now saying you can go look at the data for
saying you can go look at the data for yourself. So the the raw data I think is
yourself. So the the raw data I think is online now for people to Oh, it's not
online now for people to Oh, it's not online. Okay. It will be it will be
online. Okay. It will be it will be tried to get it.
tried to get it. >> Okay. You've tried to get it. Okay.
>> Okay. You've tried to get it. Okay. Okay. Then she says she's putting it
Okay. Then she says she's putting it online.
online. >> She's working on that.
>> She's working on that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think that
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think that the the next holy grail would be you'd
the the next holy grail would be you'd want it from another observatory and
want it from another observatory and you'd want the actual transients to line
you'd want the actual transients to line up one to one ideally at least with some
up one to one ideally at least with some correlation. That would be multiple
correlation. That would be multiple observatories. That would be ideal.
observatories. That would be ideal. >> Yeah. So, yeah, totally agree. There's
>> Yeah. So, yeah, totally agree. There's work to be done there, but pretty
work to be done there, but pretty intriguing, I think.
intriguing, I think. >> Yeah, it is intriguing. It is. Yeah.
>> Yeah, it is intriguing. It is. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It was a It's a nice idea for a
>> Yeah. It was a It's a nice idea for a project. I mean, it's a You've got all
project. I mean, it's a You've got all of these photographic records and to go
of these photographic records and to go through them. I mean, just to look for
through them. I mean, just to look for transients in the first place. I mean,
transients in the first place. I mean, transients would be anything that you
transients would be anything that you don't have a good explanation for. So
don't have a good explanation for. So there's potential for lots of
there's potential for lots of discoveries there, not just things
discoveries there, not just things orbiting the earth. So
orbiting the earth. So >> do you think UFOs come from space or do
>> do you think UFOs come from space or do you think they are sort of, you know,
you think they are sort of, you know, going through wormholes, you know, or or
going through wormholes, you know, or or time travelers?
time travelers? >> Absolutely no idea. They they are I
>> Absolutely no idea. They they are I think that many of them that we see that
think that many of them that we see that are observed by people are actually
are observed by people are actually coming from Earth
coming from Earth >> presently. You know, Carl Sean once
>> presently. You know, Carl Sean once quipped, I think it's extremely doubtful
quipped, I think it's extremely doubtful that somebody is arriving from
that somebody is arriving from international from interstellar space
international from interstellar space every other Tuesday. You know, he made
every other Tuesday. You know, he made something like that. You know, basically
something like that. You know, basically saying that I don't think that
saying that I don't think that >> he didn't say interstellar travel was
>> he didn't say interstellar travel was impossible. It wasn't going to happen
impossible. It wasn't going to happen every other Tuesday is basically what he
every other Tuesday is basically what he was saying. It's not going to be common.
was saying. It's not going to be common. And I think he's right.
And I think he's right. >> They're not they're not coming in from
>> They're not they're not coming in from another star system every
another star system every >> other Tuesday. They're they're present
>> other Tuesday. They're they're present here.
here. >> Yeah. And um that's why I think there's
>> Yeah. And um that's why I think there's probably bases underwater is your best
probably bases underwater is your best bet or maybe somewhere else in the solar
bet or maybe somewhere else in the solar system.
system. >> But we know that they can't be more than
>> But we know that they can't be more than in many cases they can't be more than a
in many cases they can't be more than a light day away because they showed up
light day away because they showed up the ne so when you had the Fukushima
the ne so when you had the Fukushima disaster they showed up the next day. M
disaster they showed up the next day. M >> so if they're coming from another star
>> so if they're coming from another star system it would take years for the for
system it would take years for the for the sign any signal any information
the sign any signal any information about Fukushima to get out to that star
about Fukushima to get out to that star system and then years for them to come
system and then years for them to come back for them to come
back for them to come >> unless fast and light communications and
>> unless fast and light communications and travel is possible
travel is possible >> or something like that right
>> or something like that right >> but yes in general relativity it would
>> but yes in general relativity it would need to be
need to be >> but they're probably coming from earth
>> but they're probably coming from earth in that case
in that case >> interesting uh do you know of any
>> interesting uh do you know of any interesting space-based encounters of
interesting space-based encounters of UFOs like NASA encounters
UFOs like NASA encounters That's also a good question. So, um
That's also a good question. So, um I know a few of them. There's Well,
I know a few of them. There's Well, there's several cosminauts have reported
there's several cosminauts have reported seeing things in space, and that's
seeing things in space, and that's important. Um
important. Um Oh, I can't I'm blanking on his name
Oh, I can't I'm blanking on his name right now. Of course, it's a long
right now. Of course, it's a long Russian name that I'm not familiar with.
Russian name that I'm not familiar with. Starts with an A. But they actually had
Starts with an A. But they actually had a craft pull up alongside of them in
a craft pull up alongside of them in >> half their orbit and they took pictures.
>> half their orbit and they took pictures. Um, the cosminaut drew a picture of the
Um, the cosminaut drew a picture of the object.
object. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> Because the pictures all got confiscated
>> Because the pictures all got confiscated by the Soviet
by the Soviet >> the Nagarin.
>> the Nagarin. >> No, it's not Gagarin. It's
>> No, it's not Gagarin. It's >> Check this out.
>> Check this out. >> Akenv. Okay.
>> Akenv. Okay. >> Akan Atanv.
>> Akan Atanv. >> And he drew a UFO.
>> And he drew a UFO. >> He drew a picture of what they took
>> He drew a picture of what they took photographs of.
photographs of. >> Wow. What What mission was this? Do you
>> Wow. What What mission was this? Do you know? Or
know? Or >> No, I think it was one when they were
>> No, I think it was one when they were going to um one of the beginning early
going to um one of the beginning early space stations.
space stations. >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> Yeah. This thing pulled up. It had it
>> Yeah. This thing pulled up. It had it had windows. It had windows and pulled
had windows. It had windows and pulled up and followed them for part of the
up and followed them for part of the orbit and then left.
orbit and then left. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> Yeah. Which is awesome.
>> Yeah. Which is awesome. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I talked to Alan Bean. I met him and
>> I talked to Alan Bean. I met him and talked to him. He was from Apollo
talked to him. He was from Apollo 12
12 and he said that when he went up to
and he said that when he went up to Skyab, they were on Skyab, I think
Skyab, they were on Skyab, I think 1977ish,
1977ish, um they actually photographed a red
um they actually photographed a red flashing light. Well, what is Skyab for
flashing light. Well, what is Skyab for the idea?
the idea? >> Skyab was one of our early space
>> Skyab was one of our early space stations.
stations. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> And um and they actually saw a red
>> And um and they actually saw a red flashing light that followed them for
flashing light that followed them for part of their orbit and then
part of their orbit and then disappeared.
disappeared. >> Really?
>> Really? >> Yes. And they had photographs of that.
>> Yes. And they had photographs of that. Yeah.
Yeah. >> What did he say happened to the
>> What did he say happened to the photographs?
photographs? >> Oh, they're actually public. You can
>> Oh, they're actually public. You can find them online.
find them online. >> Okay. Wow.
>> Okay. Wow. >> It's a the big problem. You're
>> It's a the big problem. You're photographing a light in the sky and
photographing a light in the sky and it's a handheld camera
it's a handheld camera >> on a spaceship through a window and
>> on a spaceship through a window and Yeah. It's bouncy and blurry and out.
Yeah. It's bouncy and blurry and out. >> But it's a red light that seems to be
>> But it's a red light that seems to be falling.
falling. >> It's a red flashing light in space.
>> It's a red flashing light in space. Nobody Nobody puts lights on satellites.
Nobody Nobody puts lights on satellites. First, you don't need them. And second,
First, you don't need them. And second, it's more weight. You know, every every
it's more weight. You know, every every ounce is going to cost you a crazy
ounce is going to cost you a crazy amount.
amount. >> Also, satellites back then weren't doing
>> Also, satellites back then weren't doing proximity operations. They were just
proximity operations. They were just following predictable orbit. They
following predictable orbit. They weren't changing orbits. They weren't
weren't changing orbits. They weren't changing orbits either. Yeah.
changing orbits either. Yeah. >> Okay. So, that's a big deal.
>> Okay. So, that's a big deal. >> The whole thing is very strange.
>> The whole thing is very strange. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yeah. And so you and then you have the
>> Yeah. And so you and then you have the um the Gemini 11 mission where the from
um the Gemini 11 mission where the from the transcripts the um
the transcripts the um the astronauts are working on were we're
the astronauts are working on were we're were working and something flew over
were working and something flew over their Houston acid that just something
their Houston acid that just something just fly over you and they say
just fly over you and they say affirmative weird weird weird and then
affirmative weird weird weird and then there's something like 6 minutes of no
there's something like 6 minutes of no transcript right and um but when the
transcript right and um but when the thing flew over the object flew over
thing flew over the object flew over them. They it drained um their it
them. They it drained um their it drained one of their battery stats. Um
drained one of their battery stats. Um stack charlie stack got drained. So
stack charlie stack got drained. So stack C got drained. So it's almost a
stack C got drained. So it's almost a classic UFO sighting and they see an
classic UFO sighting and they see an object in space. It flies over their
object in space. It flies over their ship and then drains their batteries.
ship and then drains their batteries. Right. And so that's in the transcripts
Right. And so that's in the transcripts of Gemini 11.
of Gemini 11. >> Wow. And that's public that audio
>> Wow. And that's public that audio >> public as well. Yeah. And now so so the
>> public as well. Yeah. And now so so the question I've had is why when we had the
question I've had is why when we had the NASA commission
NASA commission >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> why was there no section on what
>> why was there no section on what astronauts have seen in space?
astronauts have seen in space? >> I mean story Musgrave a shuttle pilot
>> I mean story Musgrave a shuttle pilot also talked about seeing things like
also talked about seeing things like snakes.
snakes. >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> Things writhing around in space. And so
>> Things writhing around in space. And so yeah
yeah >> none of that mentioned in the NASA
>> none of that mentioned in the NASA commission's report.
commission's report. >> So
>> So >> so you've got and then you have what is
>> so you've got and then you have what is there the the mission the Soviet mission
there the the mission the Soviet mission to Phobos.
to Phobos. >> Mhm. where their craft got disabled.
>> Mhm. where their craft got disabled. >> The last picture shows an object like a
>> The last picture shows an object like a fin in the like a tail fin of a plane
fin in the like a tail fin of a plane looks like in the picture.
looks like in the picture. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> That's the last picture it took and then
>> That's the last picture it took and then the whole thing was disabled.
the whole thing was disabled. >> The whole thing was disabled. And Gemini
>> The whole thing was disabled. And Gemini 11 also it looks like the audio like
11 also it looks like the audio like like there was some sort of power
like there was some sort of power interference or something as well.
interference or something as well. Right. Right. Like electromagnetic
Right. Right. Like electromagnetic interference.
interference. >> You got multiple events in space that
>> You got multiple events in space that weren't even talked weren't even
weren't even talked weren't even mentioned in the NASA Commission report.
mentioned in the NASA Commission report. Why shouldn't that be of interest? I
Why shouldn't that be of interest? I mean,
mean, >> they all sign NDAs, right?
>> they all sign NDAs, right? >> The astronauts.
>> The astronauts. >> Oh, I don't know what they do.
>> Oh, I don't know what they do. >> I believe I believe they do.
>> I believe I believe they do. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So, do do you think I mean, you were you
>> So, do do you think I mean, you were you were at NASA. Do you think NASA is sort
were at NASA. Do you think NASA is sort of systematically covering this stuff
of systematically covering this stuff up?
up? >> I would have no idea
>> I would have no idea >> because the the other interesting thing
>> because the the other interesting thing from Beatric Val is she says she was in
from Beatric Val is she says she was in touch with a current NASA person who
touch with a current NASA person who said that NASA tracks what they call
said that NASA tracks what they call uncorrelated targets all the time. So
uncorrelated targets all the time. So these are these are, you know, sort of,
these are these are, you know, sort of, you know, noise.
you know, noise. >> Well, they're not necessarily alien
>> Well, they're not necessarily alien spaceships, right? But it's but
spaceships, right? But it's but >> yeah,
>> yeah, >> these are things that should be
>> these are things that should be reported.
reported. >> Figure out what they are.
>> Figure out what they are. >> If you don't know what they are and
>> If you don't know what they are and you've got a
you've got a >> if you've if you're running a commission
>> if you've if you're running a commission on unidentified aerial phenomenon and
on unidentified aerial phenomenon and you've got a bunch of unidentified
you've got a bunch of unidentified things, you should talk about them to
things, you should talk about them to >> totally. But als apparently the
>> totally. But als apparently the uncorrelated targets are systematically
uncorrelated targets are systematically tracked by Space Force,
tracked by Space Force, >> right? and up according to this insider
>> right? and up according to this insider again I don't I don't know if this is
again I don't I don't know if this is true but
true but >> that's really interesting um
>> that's really interesting um >> so all all of our government documents
>> so all all of our government documents on these things even the recent ones
on these things even the recent ones barely have any information in them
barely have any information in them meanwhile the French in 1999 put out the
meanwhile the French in 1999 put out the KDA report which was 100 pages or
KDA report which was 100 pages or something right
something right >> yeah it's just crazy about 10 pages
>> yeah it's just crazy about 10 pages >> the French have a UFO research group
>> the French have a UFO research group officially called Gipen which unlike
officially called Gipen which unlike Arrow doesn't gaslight the population
Arrow doesn't gaslight the population they you know admit that this stuff was
they you know admit that this stuff was real and are open about it.
real and are open about it. >> That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Committ
>> That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Committ report's final analysis from 1999 was
report's final analysis from 1999 was that was that yeah, these things could
that was that yeah, these things could be alien spacecraft. There might be a
be alien spacecraft. There might be a base somewhere in our solar system and
base somewhere in our solar system and the US is probably hiding information.
the US is probably hiding information. >> So fascinating.
>> So fascinating. >> And that's what they actually said. The
>> And that's what they actually said. The United States is probably covering up
United States is probably covering up information. And that was their other
information. And that was their other result.
result. >> That was their official official report.
>> That was their official official report. Yeah.
Yeah. >> That's amazing. So, and then and I I
>> That's amazing. So, and then and I I believe the head of their uh CIA, former
believe the head of their uh CIA, former head of their CIA, Elaine Juliet, uh was
head of their CIA, Elaine Juliet, uh was extremely interested in UFOs and
extremely interested in UFOs and publicly to this day is like this big,
publicly to this day is like this big, you know, UFO proponent. So, right,
you know, UFO proponent. So, right, >> they have a long history. Um so, Gemini
>> they have a long history. Um so, Gemini 11, that was Pete Conrad was the
11, that was Pete Conrad was the astronaut.
astronaut. >> Yeah. Conrad and Gordon.
>> Yeah. Conrad and Gordon. >> And Gordon and did they come back and
>> And Gordon and did they come back and say we saw a UFO? Did they say anything?
say we saw a UFO? Did they say anything? >> I don't think so.
>> I don't think so. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, because that's the
>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, because that's the other look, I I've looked into all the
other look, I I've looked into all the moon landing stuff, and I just actually
moon landing stuff, and I just actually had Joe Rogan on the podcast, which was
had Joe Rogan on the podcast, which was a big honor. Um, he he kind of um uh was
a big honor. Um, he he kind of um uh was the the first person to be in our
the the first person to be in our spaceship uh set, which we just built,
spaceship uh set, which we just built, which is really cool. Yeah. And um
which is really cool. Yeah. And um >> I just couldn't couldn't think of
>> I just couldn't couldn't think of anybody better for that. And um we we
anybody better for that. And um we we talked about uh a lot of the moon moon
talked about uh a lot of the moon moon landing weirdness, you know, in the
landing weirdness, you know, in the presentation of the moon landing. And I
presentation of the moon landing. And I think neither of us are suggesting that
think neither of us are suggesting that definitively like the US didn't go to
definitively like the US didn't go to the moon. I think you can to you know
the moon. I think you can to you know the the inverse of that you you can say
the the inverse of that you you can say definitively the presentation of
definitively the presentation of whatever happened is weird and it was
whatever happened is weird and it was sanitized and manicured and presented in
sanitized and manicured and presented in a bizarre way and there was definitely
a bizarre way and there was definitely some
some uh you know managing of that that was
uh you know managing of that that was that was going on that that's obvious
that was going on that that's obvious >> and so I wonder if you know maybe maybe
>> and so I wonder if you know maybe maybe we did actually attempt or go and maybe
we did actually attempt or go and maybe we just saw UFOs along the way or maybe
we just saw UFOs along the way or maybe there's very ontologically weird about
there's very ontologically weird about the trip to space that's hard to come
the trip to space that's hard to come back with as far as a revelation to the
back with as far as a revelation to the public or some I don't know but um I
public or some I don't know but um I mean Edgar Mitchell came back talking
mean Edgar Mitchell came back talking about having an epiphany of how we're
about having an epiphany of how we're all connected in the un you know
all connected in the un you know thinking about different way of thinking
thinking about different way of thinking about the universe and humanity but then
about the universe and humanity but then after that he was very very much um
after that he was very very much um involved with UFOs but he grew up in
involved with UFOs but he grew up in Roswell
Roswell >> grew up in Roswell Apollo 14 astronaut
>> grew up in Roswell Apollo 14 astronaut >> and he had gotten and so because he was
>> and he had gotten and so because he was an Apollo astronaut. He got to hear all
an Apollo astronaut. He got to hear all sorts of things about Roswell from
sorts of things about Roswell from people from at all levels. So
people from at all levels. So >> he was very close with Warner von Braonn
>> he was very close with Warner von Braonn who seemed really interested in UFOs as
who seemed really interested in UFOs as well. He's the father of our of our
well. He's the father of our of our space program. Essentially
space program. Essentially >> Vernon Braun's mentor was Herman Herman
>> Vernon Braun's mentor was Herman Herman Oberth who who gave a lecture in 1954 on
Oberth who who gave a lecture in 1954 on UFOs.
UFOs. >> After so many witnesses have seen the
>> After so many witnesses have seen the so-called flying saucers, their
so-called flying saucers, their existence can no longer be denied.
existence can no longer be denied. I believe that these flying objects come
I believe that these flying objects come from another solar system.
from another solar system. >> I have his notes and his lecture notes
>> I have his notes and his lecture notes and in there he mentions that he has
and in there he mentions that he has they he has seen numerous radar
they he has seen numerous radar measurements
measurements of their speeds up to 19 km a second
of their speeds up to 19 km a second which is about 40,000 mph. He also says
which is about 40,000 mph. He also says that the rocket program was helped and
that the rocket program was helped and and he was he's basically the the father
and he was he's basically the the father of German rocketry and he said that it
of German rocketry and he said that it was aided by these these non-human
was aided by these these non-human beings. So
beings. So >> that's great.
>> that's great. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. But that so that's that's going
>> Yeah. But that so that's that's going back to 19 so 1954. We knew that these
back to 19 so 1954. We knew that these things traveled at spacecraft speeds.
things traveled at spacecraft speeds. >> We already knew that in 1954.
>> We already knew that in 1954. >> And and
>> And and why are we playing catchup just now?
why are we playing catchup just now? Yeah.
Yeah. >> Why did this why did this take a half a
>> Why did this why did this take a half a century to unfold is really crazy.
century to unfold is really crazy. >> Well, proof that um NASA, you know,
>> Well, proof that um NASA, you know, probably know something a thing or two
probably know something a thing or two internally about the UFO stuff. And I
internally about the UFO stuff. And I know this is something you've looked
know this is something you've looked into, and I think my buddy Chris Ramsey
into, and I think my buddy Chris Ramsey might be doing an interesting follow-up
might be doing an interesting follow-up with you on on all this stuff, but
with you on on all this stuff, but >> Oh, yeah. Right.
>> Oh, yeah. Right. >> There's um there's a the Simpson photo
>> There's um there's a the Simpson photo around Gemini 11 that flight. And
around Gemini 11 that flight. And there's maybe the best UFO photo you
there's maybe the best UFO photo you could ever ask for. It's like a perfect
could ever ask for. It's like a perfect UFO photo. In fact, I have the book uh
UFO photo. In fact, I have the book uh right here. I'm I'm going to take it.
right here. I'm I'm going to take it. >> I'll go grab it.
>> I'll go grab it. >> So, we have we have this um this
>> So, we have we have this um this Simpkinson NASA UFO archive and this
Simpkinson NASA UFO archive and this photo, which is like maybe the best UFO
photo, which is like maybe the best UFO photo of all time. Um, if it's real and
photo of all time. Um, if it's real and it comes from Gemini 11 and you you
it comes from Gemini 11 and you you figured out that this was a Gemini 11
figured out that this was a Gemini 11 photo, right?
photo, right? >> Um, well, Ed Wilson knew that.
>> Um, well, Ed Wilson knew that. >> Oh, okay. Ed Wilson did. Okay.
>> Oh, okay. Ed Wilson did. Okay. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> But it actually says on it says strange
>> But it actually says on it says strange object as seen by the astronauts of
object as seen by the astronauts of Gemini 11. I think that's what it says
Gemini 11. I think that's what it says underneath on on the lithograph. So it's
underneath on on the lithograph. So it's a So what he found was a n was a
a So what he found was a n was a lithograph which is a printing a printed
lithograph which is a printing a printed photograph and they printed them um kind
photograph and they printed them um kind of like a a lithograph is kind of like a
of like a a lithograph is kind of like a um
um comic book is printed with all the dots
comic book is printed with all the dots right which makes it horrible to
right which makes it horrible to analyze. If you're trying to find stars
analyze. If you're trying to find stars in that picture you're you were so out
in that picture you're you were so out of luck. I mean several of us were
of luck. I mean several of us were trying to identify stars and things like
trying to identify stars and things like this in that picture and you just can't
this in that picture and you just can't do it. Is that a UFO?
do it. Is that a UFO? >> Um, I actually I I So, what I my best
>> Um, I actually I I So, what I my best assessment of what that image shows is
assessment of what that image shows is that it is probably a mockup of what the
that it is probably a mockup of what the astronauts claim to have seen.
astronauts claim to have seen. >> And um
>> And um >> why is that your assessment? because um
>> why is that your assessment? because um Ed actually found the original
Ed actually found the original photograph in the University of Arizona
photograph in the University of Arizona archives that shows Earth with that
archives that shows Earth with that cloud pattern in the background and
cloud pattern in the background and there's no UFO there.
there's no UFO there. >> Now, of course, it's easy to claim,
>> Now, of course, it's easy to claim, well, NASA erased the UFO from that
well, NASA erased the UFO from that picture.
picture. >> Um,
>> Um, and it doesn't. Now, of course, doing an
and it doesn't. Now, of course, doing an image analysis like that on on a scanned
negative, right, where you don't know what kind of process and it's JPEG,
what kind of process and it's JPEG, which is which is um a lossy encoding
which is which is um a lossy encoding and all this these types of image
and all this these types of image analysis problems. So, it's not great im
analysis problems. So, it's not great im you it's not great for doing an image
you it's not great for doing an image analysis on, but I found no evidence
analysis on, but I found no evidence that anything was erased from that
that anything was erased from that picture. M
picture. M >> and um and and that picture actually is
>> and um and and that picture actually is showing the end of the tether
showing the end of the tether experiment. So so NASA the Gemini
experiment. So so NASA the Gemini project Gemini meaning twins was all
project Gemini meaning twins was all about docking.
about docking. >> Can we actually dock with another
>> Can we actually dock with another spacecraft in space and so Gemini 11 was
spacecraft in space and so Gemini 11 was the last one of the series and it was
the last one of the series and it was unique one in that their goal was to go
unique one in that their goal was to go up literally launch and dock within one
up literally launch and dock within one orbit. So, what they were doing
orbit. So, what they were doing previously, they'd go and they'd get up
previously, they'd go and they'd get up into orbit and then they'd maneuver to
into orbit and then they'd maneuver to dock. But the trick was, can we just go
dock. But the trick was, can we just go up and dock?
up and dock? >> And that's what they tried to do with
>> And that's what they tried to do with the Gemini 11 and they were successful.
the Gemini 11 and they were successful. And after they docked, they um then were
And after they docked, they um then were tethered to the other craft and they did
tethered to the other craft and they did a tether experiment where they actually
a tether experiment where they actually got the two crafts spinning like this.
got the two crafts spinning like this. I'm going to knock things over. got the
I'm going to knock things over. got the two crafts spinning on a tether and then
two crafts spinning on a tether and then um and did experiments to see how stable
um and did experiments to see how stable that is and what goes wrong. And um so
that is and what goes wrong. And um so they had just finished that experiment
they had just finished that experiment and they had just released the other
and they had just released the other craft, the unmanned craft. And that's in
craft, the unmanned craft. And that's in the picture that the background of that
the picture that the background of that lithograph is from.
lithograph is from. >> And there's no indication that the
>> And there's no indication that the astronauts saw any UFO at that time in
astronauts saw any UFO at that time in the transcripts. They were busy with
the transcripts. They were busy with the, you know, yeah, they're busy with
the, you know, yeah, they're busy with the tether experiment.
the tether experiment. >> So, when was the Cuz you just said
>> So, when was the Cuz you just said earlier that
earlier that >> then the UFO sighting, the weird thing
>> then the UFO sighting, the weird thing that happened happened an hour later,
that happened happened an hour later, >> which would put it in another orbit,
>> which would put it in another orbit, right?
right? >> 2/3 of an orbit.
>> 2/3 of an orbit. >> So, you did some forensic investigating
>> So, you did some forensic investigating and realized that the timing was off.
and realized that the timing was off. >> The timing is off
>> The timing is off >> for for when they actually did see the
>> for for when they actually did see the UF.
UF. >> So, so the big problems with that being
>> So, so the big problems with that being a real picture are are first the the um
a real picture are are first the the um first we don't have a picture of the UF.
first we don't have a picture of the UF. We don't have an actual photograph of
We don't have an actual photograph of the UFO.
the UFO. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> We just have the lithograph.
>> We just have the lithograph. >> Um there doesn't seem to be any evidence
>> Um there doesn't seem to be any evidence of temp those that photograph being
of temp those that photograph being tampered with. Um there was no
tampered with. Um there was no indication that they saw a UFO at that
indication that they saw a UFO at that time
time >> and the UFO they did see happened an
>> and the UFO they did see happened an hour later.
hour later. >> Yeah. So so so what's your best
>> Yeah. So so so what's your best explanation as to how that photo
explanation as to how that photo surfaced at all with the UFO? What I
surfaced at all with the UFO? What I suspect happened is is it's I I think
suspect happened is is it's I I think that what that photo is is exactly what
that what that photo is is exactly what it says under the photo. What's printed
it says under the photo. What's printed there, strange object as seen by Gemini
there, strange object as seen by Gemini 11 astronauts?
11 astronauts? >> I think it's a mockup to show what the
>> I think it's a mockup to show what the astronauts saw
astronauts saw >> and but didn't photograph.
>> and but didn't photograph. >> Was that officially published in some
>> Was that officially published in some NASA thing?
NASA thing? >> No, it wasn't officially published
>> No, it wasn't officially published anywhere which was it made it
anywhere which was it made it interesting. It was found in Scott
interesting. It was found in Scott Simkinson was a NASA engineer.
Simkinson was a NASA engineer. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Um he was he was actually the first
>> Um he was he was actually the first engineer hired by NASA.
engineer hired by NASA. >> Whoa.
>> Whoa. >> I think and his nickname was Scotty.
>> I think and his nickname was Scotty. >> Everybody called him Scotty. And I can't
>> Everybody called him Scotty. And I can't and I can't help but think is there any
and I can't help but think is there any connection between Scott Simpson Scotty
connection between Scott Simpson Scotty and Scotty in the Enterprise? I don't
and Scotty in the Enterprise? I don't know. But he was very well known right
know. But he was very well known right in the 50s and 60s. So there might be a
in the 50s and 60s. So there might be a connection there.
connection there. >> That's fascinating. Well, it sounds like
>> That's fascinating. Well, it sounds like he's kind of as insidery as it gets.
he's kind of as insidery as it gets. Yeah. And the fact that he, you know,
Yeah. And the fact that he, you know, you find in his in his records, he
you find in his in his records, he >> designed some of the spacecraft. I mean,
>> designed some of the spacecraft. I mean, >> designed some of the spacecraft. So, if
>> designed some of the spacecraft. So, if there's some sort of even if it's an
there's some sort of even if it's an artist rendition where they're
artist rendition where they're >> So, he had he he had and he had a
>> So, he had he he had and he had a collection of his NASA files. He and his
collection of his NASA files. He and his secretary Emily Erdle had a collection
secretary Emily Erdle had a collection of of their NASA files and um and then
of of their NASA files and um and then when he died and she died they were made
when he died and she died they were made public and they were put to auction and
public and they were put to auction and Ed Wilson bought them and that's how
Ed Wilson bought them and that's how that's how he got them and he discovered
that's how he got them and he discovered the lithograph amongst them. Well, if
the lithograph amongst them. Well, if there's a painting of a UFO in that
there's a painting of a UFO in that photo and it's found in his records,
photo and it's found in his records, that implies that there's almost
that implies that there's almost institutional NASA knowledge of the fact
institutional NASA knowledge of the fact that the Gemini 11 astronauts did see a
that the Gemini 11 astronauts did see a UFO.
UFO. >> I saw something I think well and and
>> I saw something I think well and and they that's what's said in the
they that's what's said in the transcript. So,
transcript. So, >> even if it's painted on, it's like this
>> even if it's painted on, it's like this inside joke or way to commemorate this
inside joke or way to commemorate this very real event. It's not
very real event. It's not >> record way to record what happened as
>> record way to record what happened as best they can. Yeah,
best they can. Yeah, >> that's fascinating. That's so
>> that's fascinating. That's so interesting. And
interesting. And >> why none of this is mentioned in the
>> why none of this is mentioned in the NASA commission's report, I have no
NASA commission's report, I have no idea. Did they not? Maybe they didn't
idea. Did they not? Maybe they didn't know. I mean, it's possible they didn't
know. I mean, it's possible they didn't know.
know. >> I don't know.
>> I don't know. >> Who knows?
>> Who knows? >> I mean, speaking of NASA obstruction,
>> I mean, speaking of NASA obstruction, three Atlas, uh, you know, we have this
three Atlas, uh, you know, we have this Manhattan sized object that is now uh uh
Manhattan sized object that is now uh uh come around back around the sun and it
come around back around the sun and it is headed towards Jupiter. It's going to
is headed towards Jupiter. It's going to pass the Earth uh December 19th. So,
pass the Earth uh December 19th. So, this might be out by the time um you
this might be out by the time um you know, it's it's it's already sort of
know, it's it's it's already sort of passed. Um so, so what what do you
passed. Um so, so what what do you think's going on with this object? You
think's going on with this object? You have like most of the astronomical
have like most of the astronomical community basically like ignoring it or
community basically like ignoring it or saying it's so, you know, it doesn't
saying it's so, you know, it doesn't matter or whatever. And then you have
matter or whatever. And then you have Avi Loe going crazy going on literally
Avi Loe going crazy going on literally every single podcast that exists saying,
every single podcast that exists saying, you know, 40% chance that this is an
you know, 40% chance that this is an alien craft and, you know, it could be
alien craft and, you know, it could be it could be a harbinger of, you know,
it could be a harbinger of, you know, either the Messiah or, you know, it
either the Messiah or, you know, it could be an invader or something. So,
could be an invader or something. So, what what's going on?
what what's going on? >> Yeah, that's I mean,
>> Yeah, that's I mean, >> and then NASA is is is did this stupid
>> and then NASA is is is did this stupid gaslighting press conference where I was
gaslighting press conference where I was honestly a little skeptical of some of
honestly a little skeptical of some of AI's statements. I felt like he was like
AI's statements. I felt like he was like extrapolating and you know jumping to
extrapolating and you know jumping to conclusions but I ended up I I wanted to
conclusions but I ended up I I wanted to side with Avi after watching this
side with Avi after watching this gaslighting NASA
gaslighting NASA >> first. NASA press conferences are the
>> first. NASA press conferences are the absolute worst.
absolute worst. >> You want to geek out a little bit Tom?
>> You want to geek out a little bit Tom? >> You were geeking out so expertly Nikki
>> You were geeking out so expertly Nikki to begin with. So that was that was
to begin with. So that was that was fabulous.
fabulous. >> I mean that every every even when I was
>> I mean that every every even when I was at NASA you wait for this press
at NASA you wait for this press conference. Oh, there's going to be some
conference. Oh, there's going to be some exciting news about something and it's
exciting news about something and it's >> not very exciting. No. and and and
>> not very exciting. No. and and and you're always and and the part of the
you're always and and the part of the problem is that your expectation for
problem is that your expectation for excitement from NASA is is way too high,
excitement from NASA is is way too high, right? And unreasonably high. So that's
right? And unreasonably high. So that's part of the problem. So So I can't that
part of the problem. So So I can't that not all the blame should go to NASA for
not all the blame should go to NASA for that. But but the press conferences are
that. But but the press conferences are are always quite bor I mean part of it
are always quite bor I mean part of it also is science is kind of boring and if
also is science is kind of boring and if you're giving a so if you're giving a
you're giving a so if you're giving a press conference about science that
press conference about science that might be kind that that's often kind of
might be kind that that's often kind of boring
boring >> but you should expect a photo that's
>> but you should expect a photo that's better resolution than what amateur
better resolution than what amateur astronomers are taking of three atlas
astronomers are taking of three atlas it's like this
it's like this >> it's hard if you've got you've got a
>> it's hard if you've got you've got a you've got a spacecraft in orbit around
you've got a spacecraft in orbit around Mars designed to image the surface of
Mars designed to image the surface of Mars and you're trying to use it to
Mars and you're trying to use it to image something much further away that's
image something much further away that's tough Right. But then crowdsource. If
tough Right. But then crowdsource. If you're the official government body and
you're the official government body and you get billions in funding every year,
you get billions in funding every year, then find the the amateur astronomer
then find the the amateur astronomer where they can do it and do it. Do you
where they can do it and do it. Do you work with them? Contra. You have the
work with them? Contra. You have the money. Like
money. Like >> that would be nice.
>> that would be nice. >> That'd be nice.
>> That'd be nice. >> Yeah. I I mean I'm not surprised that we
>> Yeah. I I mean I'm not surprised that we can't get a good image of it. That's
can't get a good image of it. That's that's hard to do. Um
that's hard to do. Um I mean three three eye atlas is is
I mean three three eye atlas is is weird. And I don't know. I mean, why the
weird. And I don't know. I mean, why the astronomical
astronomical astronomical society won't or community
astronomical society won't or community won't recognize that is kind of strange.
won't recognize that is kind of strange. I mean, maybe is are they kind of
I mean, maybe is are they kind of quieted by Avi being so loud about it
quieted by Avi being so loud about it being possibly an alien craft? That
being possibly an alien craft? That could be part of it. They don't want to
could be part of it. They don't want to get into this mess. Um, but but it's a
get into this mess. Um, but but it's a weird thing. I mean, I
weird thing. I mean, I Yeah, great. easy to say comet, but
Yeah, great. easy to say comet, but when it came back around from around the
when it came back around from around the sun, if I'm remembering right, I mean,
sun, if I'm remembering right, I mean, these are numbers that I'm not horribly
these are numbers that I'm not horribly invested in remembering, but was only
invested in remembering, but was only like 4% water vapor as it came back
like 4% water vapor as it came back around. That's hardly any the things
around. That's hardly any the things that comets are dirty snowballs. They're
that comets are dirty snowballs. They're made of water. 4% water. Well, now what
made of water. 4% water. Well, now what is this thing? Um, it's got iron or it's
is this thing? Um, it's got iron or it's got nickel, but no iron. iron and nickel
got nickel, but no iron. iron and nickel come together. I mean, they're they're
come together. I mean, they're they're next to each other on the periodic
next to each other on the periodic table. To separate iron and nickel,
table. To separate iron and nickel, you're going to need some weird pro some
you're going to need some weird pro some difficult processes to separate these
difficult processes to separate these two. You and meteorites, metal
two. You and meteorites, metal meteorites are always iron, nickel
meteorites are always iron, nickel meteorites. Iron and nickel come
meteorites. Iron and nickel come together. So, now you've got something
together. So, now you've got something that's nickel and not iron. This is a
that's nickel and not iron. This is a weird thing.
weird thing. >> And um it suggests some weird processes
>> And um it suggests some weird processes that went into its formation. Um
that went into its formation. Um >> has an anti-ale, not just a tail. got a
>> has an anti-ale, not just a tail. got a tail and an anti-tail. It's yeah,
tail and an anti-tail. It's yeah, there's there's a lot to worry about
there's there's a lot to worry about here and
here and and I suspect I mean if from from a
and I suspect I mean if from from a practical standpoint
practical standpoint clearly this is something that we don't
clearly this is something that we don't know much about.
know much about. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And so just claiming it's a comet and
>> And so just claiming it's a comet and throwing up your hands and walking away
throwing up your hands and walking away is stupid.
is stupid. >> Just just flat out stupid and ignorant.
>> Just just flat out stupid and ignorant. Um
Um to say it's an inter to say it's an
to say it's an inter to say it's an alien spacecraft. Well, I mean, yeah,
alien spacecraft. Well, I mean, yeah, that's you don't have a lot of evidence
that's you don't have a lot of evidence for that either, so that's tough, too.
for that either, so that's tough, too. Um, but it is something we ought to
Um, but it is something we ought to study. And I remember there were several
study. And I remember there were several people who were saying, "Well, it's not
people who were saying, "Well, it's not worth studying." I'm like, "No, this is
worth studying." I'm like, "No, this is an interstellar object that tells us
an interstellar object that tells us what the conditions are like around
what the conditions are like around another star system." Yeah, this is
another star system." Yeah, this is something you should study. If you're
something you should study. If you're going to spend money to study another
going to spend money to study another one of our asteroids over something from
one of our asteroids over something from another star system, what's there's
another star system, what's there's nothing reasonable about that. That's
nothing reasonable about that. That's the problem with this whole conversation
the problem with this whole conversation around UFOs is you have on the one hand
around UFOs is you have on the one hand most conventional astronomers not even
most conventional astronomers not even looking at the data set often around
looking at the data set often around like I see these guys I think this Piers
like I see these guys I think this Piers Morgan just had on this guy I think
Morgan just had on this guy I think David Kipping or something he seems like
David Kipping or something he seems like a really good
a really good >> oh I know David
>> oh I know David >> you know David seems like a really
>> you know David seems like a really actually I I loved his episode on Rogan
actually I I loved his episode on Rogan exoplanet guy
exoplanet guy >> yeah exoplanet guy really smart on that
>> yeah exoplanet guy really smart on that dimension but like this data set that
dimension but like this data set that we're talking about with UFOs showing up
we're talking about with UFOs showing up around nuclear weapons just like totally
around nuclear weapons just like totally ignorant of And like he's talking about
ignorant of And like he's talking about UFOs, but it's like as if they have to
UFOs, but it's like as if they have to be things that are traveling from from
be things that are traveling from from space. And I I don't even think he's
space. And I I don't even think he's probably familiar with a lot of the NASA
probably familiar with a lot of the NASA cases, you know, cuz these seem like
cases, you know, cuz these seem like anecdotal small sample size, you know,
anecdotal small sample size, you know, conspiratorial things. I would argue
conspiratorial things. I would argue that the nuclear thing is a ubiquitous
that the nuclear thing is a ubiquitous global pattern.
global pattern. >> It's a huge deal
>> It's a huge deal >> that you have to contend with as a
>> that you have to contend with as a scientist, right? So you end up with
scientist, right? So you end up with these people who like again don't want
these people who like again don't want to like knock him like super smart
to like knock him like super smart conventional guy but like is mired in
conventional guy but like is mired in kind of current astronomical data around
kind of current astronomical data around UFOs and just will won't really look at
UFOs and just will won't really look at it and it's all relying on you know it's
it and it's all relying on you know it's all like well if the government has
all like well if the government has something they should release it or
something they should release it or something but can't look at the open
something but can't look at the open source stuff and then on the other side
source stuff and then on the other side it's people who are sure that it's
it's people who are sure that it's extraterrestrial they're here they're
extraterrestrial they're here they're star seeds probably you know and we have
star seeds probably you know and we have all the it's like you're jumping super
all the it's like you're jumping super to conclusions. You're not just
to conclusions. You're not just following the evidence.
following the evidence. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it's those two. It's there's no like
>> So, it's those two. It's there's no like middle path of like this is the
middle path of like this is the evidence.
evidence. >> It's like dealing with a scientific It's
>> It's like dealing with a scientific It's like a scientific community with bipolar
like a scientific community with bipolar disorder.
disorder. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> It's like crazy.
>> It's like crazy. >> Yeah. It's it's really difficult. the um
>> Yeah. It's it's really difficult. the um I mean the best the the the quote that
I mean the best the the the quote that comes to mind is from Stanton Freeman
comes to mind is from Stanton Freeman who said
who said if you're a scientist and a professional
if you're a scientist and a professional you need to do your homework before you
you need to do your homework before you open your mouth
open your mouth >> period that's it
>> period that's it >> if you haven't done your homework if you
>> if you haven't done your homework if you haven't researched it then you you have
haven't researched it then you you have nothing to say you have nothing to share
nothing to say you have nothing to share and and you can't go with the excuse
and and you can't go with the excuse that I hear time and time again well I
that I hear time and time again well I don't that's mostly nonsense and I don't
don't that's mostly nonsense and I don't have time to read nonsense. Well, then
have time to read nonsense. Well, then why are you finding the time to talk
why are you finding the time to talk about
about >> argue against nonsense? You can find the
>> argue against nonsense? You can find the time to argue against nonsense without
time to argue against nonsense without looking into the nonsense. I mean that's
looking into the nonsense. I mean that's but you can't find the time to research
but you can't find the time to research it and then and first my first response
it and then and first my first response to that first it's not nonsense. This is
to that first it's not nonsense. This is something that this is a phenomena that
something that this is a phenomena that people have seen for centuries
people have seen for centuries centuries. I mean, you had Richard Dolan
centuries. I mean, you had Richard Dolan on and he just put out a book on on um
on and he just put out a book on on um UFOs in water, underwater UFOs, and his
UFOs in water, underwater UFOs, and his cases going back to the 1800s.
cases going back to the 1800s. >> These are the same things. They they're
>> These are the same things. They they're coming balls of light coming out of the
coming balls of light coming out of the water, hovering next to the ship,
water, hovering next to the ship, following the ship, and then taking off
following the ship, and then taking off into the clouds. Same things.
into the clouds. Same things. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> And for since the 1800s, and this Nobody
>> And for since the 1800s, and this Nobody in the 1800s is making this up to sound
in the 1800s is making this up to sound like what somebody reported last week.
like what somebody reported last week. No, totally. And you have you have third
No, totally. And you have you have third world places now like in third world
world places now like in third world countries where it's like
countries where it's like >> these people like Virginia, James Fox
>> these people like Virginia, James Fox just got back, you know, from Brazil. He
just got back, you know, from Brazil. He keeps going back and like this whole
keeps going back and like this whole town uncorrelated disperate sources.
town uncorrelated disperate sources. They all report this cigar- shaped tic
They all report this cigar- shaped tic tac- like object crashing
tac- like object crashing >> and and three beings coming out, you
>> and and three beings coming out, you know, um two of one of which was
know, um two of one of which was captured and and and taken to a
captured and and and taken to a hospital. And everybody working at the
hospital. And everybody working at the hospital says that they saw the being.
hospital says that they saw the being. And one neuroscientist who's still alive
And one neuroscientist who's still alive to this day goes on record says he's
to this day goes on record says he's staring the being in the face for 4
staring the being in the face for 4 minutes.
minutes. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And this guy's alive. And you have that
>> And this guy's alive. And you have that this whole there's a saucer in the town
this whole there's a saucer in the town dedicated to you of us. Why? They none
dedicated to you of us. Why? They none of these people are making a penny. Some
of these people are making a penny. Some of them were offered briefcases of cash
of them were offered briefcases of cash to shut up about this thing. So So like
to shut up about this thing. So So like what? Like explain to me why they would
what? Like explain to me why they would lie. Like it's ridiculous. It's actually
lie. Like it's ridiculous. It's actually absurd. I wish I could see a UFO so
absurd. I wish I could see a UFO so somebody could offer me a sh to shut up.
somebody could offer me a sh to shut up. >> Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, I'll take it.
>> Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, I'll take it. >> That's a good deal. Maybe that's what's
>> That's a good deal. Maybe that's what's happening with some of the scientists.
happening with some of the scientists. >> Yeah. Well, maybe. Maybe because I want
>> Yeah. Well, maybe. Maybe because I want like somebody like a Neil deGrasse
like somebody like a Neil deGrasse Tyson, you know, like he goes on these
Tyson, you know, like he goes on these podcast tours and he's just he'll just
podcast tours and he's just he'll just it's the same thing over and over again
it's the same thing over and over again which is like no high resolution imagery
which is like no high resolution imagery and you know it's like you know why
and you know it's like you know why don't we have and we you know why aren't
don't we have and we you know why aren't we drowning in imagery because we all
we drowning in imagery because we all have cell phones or whatever and you you
have cell phones or whatever and you you have
have >> there any high resolution pictures of
>> there any high resolution pictures of quazars
quazars >> right
>> right >> I don't think so
>> I don't think so >> but they exist
>> but they exist >> but they exist I mean we don't have high
>> but they exist I mean we don't have high resolution pictures of exoplanets either
resolution pictures of exoplanets either Better yet, David Kipping and I study
Better yet, David Kipping and I study them.
them. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> I mean, come on.
>> I mean, come on. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's I mean, why ask the average
>> That's I mean, why ask the average person to
person to >> Why is it a scientist th when they come
>> Why is it a scientist th when they come to this topic, they throw their brains
to this topic, they throw their brains out the window and then open their
out the window and then open their mouth? It's it's it's maddening.
mouth? It's it's it's maddening. >> Yeah. I think there's some sort of Well,
>> Yeah. I think there's some sort of Well, I I think unorthodox and independent
I I think unorthodox and independent thinking don't scale with IQ. And so
thinking don't scale with IQ. And so there are a lot of people that can be
there are a lot of people that can be shephered into bad frameworks into not
shephered into bad frameworks into not even looking at certain stigmatized
even looking at certain stigmatized topics because
topics because ideas are fashion statements and those
ideas are fashion statements and those are bad fashion or whatever even though
are bad fashion or whatever even though they can like do well on an SAT or
they can like do well on an SAT or something. And so that I think that's a
something. And so that I think that's a really, you know, not well understood
really, you know, not well understood thing. And so you think of this priestly
thing. And so you think of this priestly citadel as like infallible when it comes
citadel as like infallible when it comes to thinking about these things, but in
to thinking about these things, but in fact they can be shepherded into, you
fact they can be shepherded into, you know, in some ways they can be shephered
know, in some ways they can be shephered even more easily because they think
even more easily because they think they're so smart. They think they can't
they're so smart. They think they can't be tricked or something,
be tricked or something, >> right?
>> right? >> And it's just I don't know. I think it's
>> And it's just I don't know. I think it's sad cuz you there are all these first
sad cuz you there are all these first principles argument. So you can you can
principles argument. So you can you can you can go at you know Neil deGrasse
you can go at you know Neil deGrasse Tyson with around you know red shifts
Tyson with around you know red shifts and blue shifts and you know
and blue shifts and you know gravitational perturbations that will
gravitational perturbations that will like you know uh uh cause issues with
like you know uh uh cause issues with general optical photography you know and
general optical photography you know and you know it's like he wouldn't have
you know it's like he wouldn't have anything to say after that he would just
anything to say after that he would just say well it can't be it can't be so like
say well it can't be it can't be so like there's there's that that ends the
there's there's that that ends the conversation with a person like that you
conversation with a person like that you know
know >> so it's it's like extremely frustrating
>> so it's it's like extremely frustrating >> right
>> right >> I'm sure you deal with it because you
>> I'm sure you deal with it because you have to straddle academia and this sort
have to straddle academia and this sort of more, you know, crazy world.
of more, you know, crazy world. >> I've been in numerous discussions where
>> I've been in numerous discussions where the academic person I've been talking to
the academic person I've been talking to just throws their brain out the window
just throws their brain out the window and stops thinking. You know, you talk
and stops thinking. You know, you talk if I talk about something else, another
if I talk about something else, another scientific talk topic, they're fine. But
scientific talk topic, they're fine. But this, they just seem to stop thinking.
this, they just seem to stop thinking. It's very it's very odd.
It's very it's very odd. >> You you're in upstate New York. Um do
>> You you're in upstate New York. Um do you think you're in the general vicinity
you think you're in the general vicinity of uh Stonybrook University? Do you
of uh Stonybrook University? Do you think they have anything to do with
think they have anything to do with UFOs?
UFOs? >> I don't know of anything going on at
>> I don't know of anything going on at Stony Brook
Stony Brook >> at Stony Brook. Okay. Cuz they Yeah,
>> at Stony Brook. Okay. Cuz they Yeah, they have I don't know a bunch of
they have I don't know a bunch of interesting They have like differential
interesting They have like differential geometry stuff going on and you know
geometry stuff going on and you know they have Jim Simons is like a big guy
they have Jim Simons is like a big guy there.
there. >> Yeah. No, Stony Brook has a great
>> Yeah. No, Stony Brook has a great physics department, but I don't think
physics department, but I don't think they do anything with UFOs.
they do anything with UFOs. >> With UFO stuff. Okay. Because David
>> With UFO stuff. Okay. Because David Spurggle, who's Jim Simons, you know, um
Spurggle, who's Jim Simons, you know, um uh foundation guy. So Jim Simons is like
uh foundation guy. So Jim Simons is like runs you he just passed away ran the
runs you he just passed away ran the best performing hedge fund in the US
best performing hedge fund in the US over you know a 30-year period um you
over you know a 30-year period um you know uh Renaissance Technologies the
know uh Renaissance Technologies the medallion fund and before that he was an
medallion fund and before that he was an NSA codereaker and also like a brilliant
NSA codereaker and also like a brilliant physicist who's contributed a lot to
physicist who's contributed a lot to fundamental physics and like Yang Mills
fundamental physics and like Yang Mills and you know all interesting stuff. So,
and you know all interesting stuff. So, um,
um, my former colleague Eric Weinstein has
my former colleague Eric Weinstein has suspected that maybe he has something to
suspected that maybe he has something to do with the UFO question or something
do with the UFO question or something and that they maybe that that
and that they maybe that that Renaissance technology is sort of
Renaissance technology is sort of printing money and then they're putting
printing money and then they're putting it towards, you know, the UFO the UFO
it towards, you know, the UFO the UFO question. And I I honestly I thought all
question. And I I honestly I thought all of that was kind of conspiratorial and
of that was kind of conspiratorial and ridiculous until 2022 happened. There's
ridiculous until 2022 happened. There's a NASA UAP panel and then David Spurggle
a NASA UAP panel and then David Spurggle who's you know Jim Simon's top science
who's you know Jim Simon's top science adviser runs the science foundation.
adviser runs the science foundation. >> Yeah, he wrote he he was the main author
>> Yeah, he wrote he he was the main author on the report
on the report >> on the NASA UAP review panel,
>> on the NASA UAP review panel, >> right?
>> right? >> So I'm like what's going on? Is is there
>> So I'm like what's going on? Is is there some sort of connection there?
some sort of connection there? >> That's a good question. I don't know
>> That's a good question. I don't know >> cuz we were just talking about all the
>> cuz we were just talking about all the weird NASA data and that seems to be
weird NASA data and that seems to be Yeah.
Yeah. >> Like you know it seems like it might be
>> Like you know it seems like it might be suppressed or something. So
suppressed or something. So >> yeah,
>> yeah, >> who knows? Well, this has been a
>> who knows? Well, this has been a pleasure, Kevin. I really love talking
pleasure, Kevin. I really love talking to you and um yeah, I wish you the best
to you and um yeah, I wish you the best of luck with all of your interesting
of luck with all of your interesting work at University of Albany.
work at University of Albany. >> Oh, thank you.
>> Oh, thank you. >> And is there anything you'd like to plug
>> And is there anything you'd like to plug or anything the audience can help kind
or anything the audience can help kind of promote or support? Um that that that
of promote or support? Um that that that helps you out.
helps you out. >> Well, our work at U Albany would be
>> Well, our work at U Albany would be great to support. We we just got a
great to support. We we just got a generous donation from a from Tony
generous donation from a from Tony Gorman who's a local businessman and um
Gorman who's a local businessman and um and that has really given us a big boost
and that has really given us a big boost and um we can always use a little more
and um we can always use a little more boost. So if anybody wants to donate
boost. So if anybody wants to donate taxfree to some to or to to um you
taxfree to some to or to to um you Albany for our work on UAPs that'd be
Albany for our work on UAPs that'd be awesome.
awesome. >> That's awesome. and yeah, one of the few
>> That's awesome. and yeah, one of the few academic institutions that is actually
academic institutions that is actually systematically looking into this
systematically looking into this question. So
question. So >> yeah, so we're basically we Matthew
>> yeah, so we're basically we Matthew Shadagus and I and
Shadagus and I and >> you know we were original members with
>> you know we were original members with UAPX and now UAPX has been
UAPX and now UAPX has been >> has been disbanded and moved to U Albany
>> has been disbanded and moved to U Albany and it's now U Albany Project X
and it's now U Albany Project X >> and Matthew Shadagus and I and and
>> and Matthew Shadagus and I and and Professor Cecilia Levy has joined us as
Professor Cecilia Levy has joined us as well. So
well. So >> awesome. And we're and the grant the
>> awesome. And we're and the grant the grant the gift we got has created an
grant the gift we got has created an endowment which will fund us in
endowment which will fund us in perpetuity to some degree. So we have we
perpetuity to some degree. So we have we are here to stay.
are here to stay. >> Wow. Love it. It's exciting. Well
>> Wow. Love it. It's exciting. Well excited to see uh you know as you make
excited to see uh you know as you make breakthroughs on a go forward basis and
breakthroughs on a go forward basis and would love to have you back and really
would love to have you back and really appreciate you coming out here.
appreciate you coming out here. >> Thank you so much for having me.
>> Alchemist. Did you enjoy that? If you want the full picture, head over to the
want the full picture, head over to the American Alchemy magazine we just
American Alchemy magazine we just launched on Substack. That's where we
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