0:02 All right, let's do the let's do the
0:04 Ross Dow debat. The original title for
0:06 this video was different. I forget what
0:08 it was, but uh now they changed it.
0:10 There's an accompanying New York Times
0:12 piece with this as well. For those of
0:13 you who don't know, Ross Doued, of
0:15 course, is a right-winger. He's a
0:17 conservative, but he is supposed to be
0:18 like, and he's not even like a
0:20 anti-Trump conservative, if I'm not
0:22 mistaken. I'm pretty sure he's like at
0:24 least like uh either Trump agnostic or
0:27 proTrump. I can't remember now. Did you
0:28 request they change it? No, I didn't.
0:30 Um, they do that all the time. They will
0:32 come out with like a crazy title and
0:33 then people will get mad at them and
0:35 then they'll change it. They did that
0:38 with the the the style section piece.
0:41 Remember MAGABody? Oh yeah, the original
0:44 title was in my in my um How radical is
0:45 the Twitch sty flirtation with violence.
0:47 Meet the online star who likes to play
0:48 with fire. I knew that it was going to
0:50 be a contentious conversation, but it
0:52 was going to be a polite one overall.
0:54 Uh, and I hope that I was able to get
0:57 some of the positions that I have across
1:00 in a somewhat hostile, somewhat
1:04 contentious, but very large platform
1:06 because the New York Times, this YouTube
1:07 video won't do like crazy numbers or
1:09 whatever, and that doesn't matter. But
1:12 the New York Times and interviews like
1:16 this do reach a lot of power brokers, a
1:17 lot of people who are in positions of
1:22 power. So, let's take a look. I think uh
1:26 conservatives have a really great way of
1:28 designing a narrative that makes sense
1:31 to as broad of an audience as possible.
1:32 >> Everyone is everyone is in the business
1:34 of crafting media narratives, right? And the
1:34 the
1:36 >> I wish Democrats were a little bit
1:46 >> Hassan Per has no filter. Or at least
1:48 that's the generous way to describe his
1:51 marathon streaming broadcasts.
1:52 >> Fascists need to go to prison permanently.
1:53 permanently.
1:56 >> Sig Hiling has one use.
1:56 >> You're a Nazi.
1:58 >> If Donald Trump is going somewhere, it
2:00 is certainly not heaven. Israel is an
2:02 illegal entity. Okay. Which cover
2:04 everything from the war in Gaza.
2:06 >> It's crazy to me that we treat Israel
2:08 like this unstoppable force. Like they
2:10 are not human beings that are making
2:12 these decisions to bomb schools,
2:15 mosques, hospitals. to his fitness regimen.
2:15 regimen.
2:17 >> Are you on creatine? Yes, I love
2:19 creatine. I love creatine.
2:21 >> He's a self-proclaimed Marxist and anti-imperialist.
2:22 anti-imperialist.
2:24 >> We here in the United States of America
2:26 live under the comfort of being a part
2:27 of the labor aristocracy
2:30 >> who's been hopefully called the left's
2:32 answer to Joe Rogan and who's compared
2:34 himself to Rush Limbbo. And he keeps
2:37 getting suspended from his platform
2:39 Twitch for language that he calls
2:41 hyperbolic and other people call
2:45 incitement. Is this person calling for
2:48 the death of a US senator? Of course
2:50 not. Hello. If you're watching this,
2:51 that means I just got banned.
2:54 >> Is he the future of the left or is he
2:56 just another example of how living on
2:59 the internet drives everyone insane.
3:02 Hassan [ __ ] welcome to interesting times.
3:03 times.
3:05 >> We are living in some interesting times
3:08 considering that uh it is you, Ross Da,
3:10 who is interviewing me for the New York
3:12 Times. Who else?
3:14 >> Who else would it be, man? This is this
3:17 is a show. This is a place for
3:20 >> um the interesting perspectives of our moment.
3:21 moment.
3:22 >> Did you hear this intro? No, I didn't
3:24 hear this intro. It was new.
3:25 >> I think I think that's what you
3:27 represent. And we're going to get we're
3:28 going to get into that. We're going to
3:31 talk about the Hassan [ __ ] worldview.
3:33 We're going to talk about debates about
3:35 political violence. But I thought we
3:38 should start because I know what you do.
3:40 I'm very techsavvy. Obviously, I'm, you
3:42 know, very online. I understand I
3:44 understand the internet, but there may
3:48 be some listeners and viewers um who
3:52 don't know what a Twitch streamer is.
3:54 So, I want you to tell me what a Twitch
3:57 streamer is.
4:00 >> Yeah. Um Twitch streamers broadly for
4:02 the most part play video games. Uh I'm a
4:04 little bit unique to the space uh
4:08 because I cover politics. I I do news
4:10 and political commentary for the most
4:12 part. I do lifestyle stuff as well, and
4:13 I do the regular things that Twitch
4:15 streamers do on the side, but that's
4:18 secondary. Twitch is basically a live
4:21 streaming platform. So, for the boomers
4:23 that read the New York Times, I would
4:26 say it's like YouTube, but it's always
4:29 live. It's like just live stream
4:31 YouTube. That's it.
4:33 >> Right? So when I make a podcast, I come
4:35 into this beautiful, wonderful studio
4:37 and I sit down and it's like a
4:39 self-contained thing, but then it's
4:42 edited and cut up and, you know, turn
4:44 turned into the product, right?
4:46 >> But when you But when you sit down, you
4:50 go for seven hours like
4:52 >> uh if you ask my audience now, they'll
4:55 say half day uh half day and they'll say
4:58 seven hours, which is a joke. But yeah,
5:00 I I used to do it for 8 to 10 hours
5:02 every day, but I've uh you've cut back.
5:03 >> I'm 34 now. Yeah.
5:05 >> So I just I lowered it to seven.
5:06 >> Okay. And are you going you're doing it
5:08 after we record this, right? >> Yeah.
5:08 >> Yeah.
5:09 >> So it's
5:10 >> And I go seven days a week as well.
5:13 Every Sunday. Sunday. Okay. >> Yeah.
5:13 >> Yeah.
5:16 >> And I think if someone, you know, they
5:18 can see you right now with the mic and
5:20 the background, right? But if someone
5:21 who wasn't familiar with this sort of
5:23 dropped into the stream, they'd see
5:26 other stuff on screen, >> right?
5:26 >> right?
5:28 >> Yeah. So, what would they see? What What
5:30 do you share the screen with? >> Um,
5:31 >> Um,
5:33 normally at any given moment, if you
5:36 tune in, uh, you can either see me full
5:37 screen like this, just doing direct to
5:40 camera commentary,
5:43 uh, or most likely reading an article,
5:46 criticizing it piece by piece. And also
5:50 sometimes, uh, I offer commentary over
5:54 uh, media from, uh, from TV channels as
5:57 well. And it's a it's a broad spectrum
5:58 of political ideology.
6:01 >> And you're also talking to people who
6:03 are talking to you though, right?
6:06 >> So there are
6:08 tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of
6:10 thousands of concurrent live viewers, >> right,
6:10 >> right,
6:13 >> that are in my chat. So we broadly call
6:15 it chat. They're on the side of the
6:17 screen. You can see it as well. It's
6:19 just constantly going up and down like
6:21 it's the Matrix, right? because it's
6:26 just a constant flow of thoughts. And I
6:27 don't know exactly how I figured this
6:31 out. Maybe it's my ADHD, but uh I have
6:35 been able to somehow offer
6:36 commentary that people consider
6:37 compelling, right?
6:40 >> While simultaneously through
6:40 through
6:42 >> and you're responding, somebody writes,
6:44 >> "Why is he infantilizing you?" No, no,
6:46 no. This part is actually pretty good.
6:48 So, what he's doing here for like the
6:51 first, I would say like 15 minutes to 20
6:56 minutes is explaining what I do to an a
6:59 media executive that's like 60 years
7:01 old. Cuz you have to remember like for
7:02 you this is every day. Of course, you
7:06 know what the I do. But for a person
7:08 that reads the New York Times and is
7:11 familiar with Ross Dowid, that person
7:13 has no clue what the I do. They don't
7:15 know what Twitch is. They don't know
7:17 anything. And the reason why he's
7:19 actually giving this backstory, and it's
7:21 the right thing to do for the record,
7:22 but the reason why he's giving this
7:26 backstory here is because he's going to
7:29 then at least give me like an honest
7:31 shake because he's going to obviously
7:33 criticize me, but he wants to make sure
7:36 that it is uh contextually appropriate.
7:38 Cuz if he just like came into it and
7:40 said, "You've said this and you've said
7:42 that." Then we would have to go back and
7:44 forth on like, "Well, it's a long, you
7:47 know, it's a long uh uh the medium
7:49 requires you to talk endlessly for seven
7:51 hours with like constant feedback and a
7:53 lot gets lost in the sauce. A lot gets
7:54 lost in the messaging, all this stuff."
7:57 Instead of doing that, he's basically
7:58 explaining to people exactly what this is,
7:59 is,
7:59 >> you know,
8:01 >> but he's also belittling a little bit.
8:02 No, I don't even think so. I think
8:03 that's just the tone he takes. Because
8:06 the reality of the matter is if Ross
8:09 Daled uh wanted to belittle someone like
8:12 myself, he just wouldn't do this at all.
8:13 He would just write an article. I think
8:15 what he wanted to do instead was not to
8:20 belittle me, but to to present me as a
8:21 somewhat of a dangerous figure in
8:24 American politics because I do think he
8:26 considers me to be somewhat of a
8:28 dangerous figure in American politics.
8:29 The political side of it comes from
8:30 like, oh well, you live in a nice
8:32 mansion. like you don't want violent
8:34 revolutionary violence to come down your
8:36 doorstep like not understanding that
8:39 like yeah I I I don't want that in
8:41 general like I want I understand that
8:44 violence is a is a a constant presence
8:47 in politics but like my advocacy
8:50 revolves around reform anyway let's continue
8:51 continue
8:53 >> that's stupid Hassan because of this and
8:57 you're like no you know gremlin user 47
9:00 >> I'm brilliant you say right Well, I
9:02 wouldn't I wouldn't
9:04 >> I don't know if I would say that, but
9:05 sometimes it's complimentary information
9:07 that's coming in. So, it's almost like a
9:10 hive mind that uh can quickly extract
9:12 and find information all around the
9:14 internet and sometimes it's contentious
9:16 where people come in and they're
9:18 right-wingers or they come in and
9:20 they're liberals who disagree with me on
9:21 something and they'll be like, "This is
9:23 wrong. Here is why you're wrong." And
9:25 then there's like a very quick uh
9:27 spirited debate. Uh and sometimes it can
9:29 even get a little heated. So, the way
9:33 I've always described what I do is that
9:35 uh I'm I'm basically like Rush Limbob,
9:38 but for zoomers. So, it's almost like AM
9:41 radio in the spirit of like conservative
9:43 commentary. But obviously uh I think I
9:47 have a a higher standard for for the
9:49 veracity of the information that I'm
9:50 looking at because a big part of what I
9:52 do I think especially in this age on the
9:55 internet uh is is sift through the
9:57 misinformation. So, uh, a big part of
9:59 what I do is also just like going
10:02 through all of that and, um, in in real
10:04 time and also trying to instill some
10:08 sense of media, uh, literacy in in the
10:10 audience. So, I I explain it as I'm
10:12 holding your hand through the journey of
10:14 reading the news.
10:15 >> Do you take a bathroom break? Like,
10:16 what's your
10:16 >> I do.
10:19 >> How many bathroom breaks do you take? I
10:22 I don't know, but my um there are some
10:24 people in the community that time my
10:26 bathroom breaks and I think Okay,
10:27 >> so it
10:28 >> can range anywhere from
10:30 >> I I don't need to know how long the
10:31 bathroom breaks are actually.
10:32 >> The bathroom breaks range from 22
10:35 seconds to sometimes a minute and 10. Um >> Okay.
10:36 >> Okay. >> But
10:36 >> But
10:39 >> and I'm away from the screen for a brief
10:40 moment. Y
10:42 >> and often times I'll just have like the
10:44 video running like the live video feed
10:48 running. Um and I'll I'll stay tuned to
10:51 it so I'm not like missing anything. Uh
10:55 and uh I do I'll have my father uh who
10:57 who comes and stays with me over
10:59 extended periods of time uh make me a
11:02 meal and I'll eat that on camera as well
11:03 cuz I'm live for seven hours a day. I
11:05 eat at the same time every single day. I
11:09 have a very strict regimen. And so
11:12 regimen so like how does your body feel?
11:15 So I after I podcast this is you know
11:17 too much confession but it's like I'm
11:19 kind of exhausted in a way that is not
11:21 the case if you sit down and write a
11:23 column. I assure you right like it's a
11:26 physical experience to talk to someone
11:27 or interview them in a way that I didn't
11:30 expect before I got into this business.
11:32 Right? And most of the time you do have
11:33 guests, but most of the time you're not
11:36 doing interviews, but you are arguing
11:38 with people in real time, right? Like
11:40 are you just spent at the end of the
11:42 seven hours or do you need to do you
11:44 like go off and exercise? Like what's
11:46 what is the lifestyle?
11:50 >> Well, um the lifestyle that your paper
11:53 style section actually documented was um
11:54 >> Yeah, I read I read that I read that piece.
11:54 piece.
11:57 >> Yeah. So, I um was quite the
11:59 controversial title for that piece that
12:01 everybody everybody seemingly got mad
12:04 at, but um you're you're absolutely correct.
12:05 correct.
12:06 >> What was what was the title? What was
12:07 the title?
12:09 >> I think it was a progressive mind and a
12:10 MAGA body or something.
12:11 >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
12:15 >> Yeah. Um so, it depletes my social
12:16 battery on like anything else that I've
12:18 ever done. after the end of like a
12:21 seven, eight, 10 hour broadcast, I do uh
12:24 oftentimes feel the need to just like
12:27 kind of unwind and I have a hard time
12:30 just like talking to people um
12:33 >> in the immediate aftermath of that cuz
12:35 the way I see it like you're constantly
12:38 on you have to be entertaining every
12:41 single second every single second of the
12:42 eight hour broadcast like you can't have
12:46 dead air you have to be constantly uh uh
12:48 entertaining people, you uh or
12:51 constantly trying to educate people. So,
12:53 uh there are some some difficulties in
12:56 that. um you're also constantly online
12:58 and uh in order not to feel super
13:02 isolated and and super sheltered from
13:05 you know how regular people operate and
13:10 how they feel uh I I always find uh that
13:13 uh I I I ground myself basically by
13:16 being around what I like to call normies
13:19 or civilians. Uh, and I spend most of my
13:23 time offline directly outside going to
13:25 public parks, hanging out with my
13:28 friends, and also working out is a big
13:30 part of this as well, obviously. Um,
13:32 >> well, that's you can't have the MAGA
13:34 body if you aren't if you aren't if you
13:35 aren't working out, right? >> Yeah,
13:36 >> Yeah,
13:37 >> that's what that's what they tell me. I
13:39 haven't put it to the test yet, but you
13:42 know, um, what So, you you mentioned
13:44 you're 34, right? So, you're too old.
13:46 You're too old to go for 9 or 10 hours.
13:48 you have to go for seven hours.
13:49 >> Um, you don't have a family, right?
13:51 You're not you're not married. >> No.
13:51 >> No.
13:53 >> Um, like are you going to be doing this
13:54 at 50
13:57 >> at my at my age of 45? The ancient the
13:59 ancient years. I
14:00 >> I think so. Okay.
14:02 >> Yeah. The the reason why I say that is
14:05 because like I've designed everything in
14:08 my life so that uh I can continue doing
14:10 this. This is what I'm good at. This is
14:11 the only thing I'm good at. Well, you've
14:14 designed it, but like not to, you know,
14:16 not to not to play the social
14:18 conservative advice giver, right? But
14:20 like, do you want to have kids?
14:21 >> Like, I do. Yeah.
14:24 >> Okay. But you might have to redesign
14:25 your life someday. >> Yeah.
14:25 >> Yeah.
14:28 >> Yeah. Fit fit the kid in. I mean, fit
14:29 the kids in
14:31 >> Well, there might be an issue, but yeah.
14:32 All right. Let's let's let's
14:34 >> No, no, I meant like there is no issue
14:37 with with uh scaling back on certain
14:39 aspects of my life is what I mean,
14:40 >> right? So the weekends could free up someday.
14:42 someday. >> Yeah.
14:42 >> Yeah.
14:43 >> Okay. Good. For sure.
14:44 >> All right. Let's talk about the cause
14:47 then. The what what you're fighting for.
14:50 Give me the Hassan [ __ ] worldview. What
14:52 do you believe?
14:55 >> I believe that the United States of
14:58 America is a profoundly wealthy nation.
15:00 It's the wealthiest nation on earth
15:03 right now. and therefore uh it could be
15:06 doing right by all of the people that
15:09 are in the United States of America and
15:12 it and yet it refuses to do so. And I
15:17 want to uh through a system uh of of
15:19 at first modest social democratic
15:23 reforms basically claw back autonomy for
15:27 the the everyday person and hopefully uh
15:28 give them more of a voice in their
15:30 workplace and also in the political
15:33 process as well and slowly but surely
15:36 yield more egalitarian outcomes. Um on
15:39 the global dominance side, I think that
15:43 we should uh significantly uh scale back
15:45 uh imperialism
15:47 and and the endless wars that we engage
15:51 in and focus on helping people in this
15:53 country and even focus on helping people
15:55 in other countries but in a meaningful
15:58 way. uh not in a way where we uh change
16:01 their own internal governance structures
16:04 uh aggressively and sometimes directly
16:06 through intervention and by force.
16:10 >> Okay. So situate that narrative relative
16:13 to actual democratic politicians and
16:16 activists and so on, right? Like are you
16:18 where Bernie Sanders is and Alexandria
16:21 Okasiocortez are? Or are you someone
16:24 who's saying that's a good start but fundamentally
16:26 fundamentally
16:28 you know we want to be democratic
16:29 socialists but with an emphasis on the
16:31 socialism like how how far do you want
16:36 to take the transformation of America?
16:38 >> Okay. Um so it's not just the
16:40 transformation of America. I think it's
16:41 the it's the transformation of global
16:44 politics uh in its entirety. I think
16:46 that uh capitalism was an evolution away
16:50 from feudalism and and monarchies and I
16:53 think it was uh a a fantastic evolution
16:55 away from that structure and liberal
16:57 capitalist democracies I think for a
17:00 very long time presented this this
17:02 wonderful new evolution but I think it's
17:05 time for an alternative vision uh to
17:10 take place considering that the the
17:12 tremendous amount of bloodshed that
17:14 keeps propping up the system continues
17:17 and I feel like we have an opportunity
17:20 to to move away from this especially at
17:23 a time when liberalism is demonstrabably
17:27 failing and uh we are seeing even as
17:32 Cassinstein uh recognizes uh illiberals
17:35 that are uh taking advantage of this of
17:36 this situation. Now of course he would
17:38 probably consider me to be illiberal in
17:39 some respects.
17:40 >> Well, we don't have to we don't have to
17:42 say illiberal. Let's say post liberal.
17:43 Right? So you've got people people on
17:45 the right
17:47 >> who would call themselves post-liberal.
17:49 You've got religious post-lberals.
17:51 You've got the Curtis Yarvin, you know,
17:54 we're going to have a you know a Silicon
17:56 Valley King post liberal. Right. So
17:58 you're a left post liberal. I think
17:59 that's fair.
18:01 >> But I wouldn't say I'm a liberal. Yeah.
18:03 >> Right. You're you're post right. So you
18:04 want something.
18:05 >> I agree with everything you said about
18:06 your mission, but holy wordy answer may
18:07 for newbies to the channel sound like
18:10 Hakeem Jeffrey speak. Brother, I'm
18:11 talking to the New York Times. I'm
18:12 talking to Ross Dow that I have to be
18:13 very careful with the words I'm
18:15 choosing. You will see exactly why I
18:16 have to be very careful with the words
18:19 I'm choosing. Um, liberalism was good
18:21 for a while, but it's generated too many
18:24 inequalities. It's too harsh on the
18:27 world. Um, but what is the alternative?
18:31 Is it Marxist? Is it, you know, is it
18:34 essentially deeper and more profound
18:35 government management of the economy?
18:37 What are we talking about?
18:39 I think I don't have the the perfect
18:41 solution for this and this is something
18:43 that I readily admit but I think moving
18:46 in the direction of socialism would be a
18:49 wonderful start. Uh and the reason why I
18:51 say that is because as you mentioned
18:52 like a lot of the post-liberal
18:56 conversations uh almost always revolve
19:00 around uh unifying strength in the hands
19:03 of one singular figure or one person. uh
19:08 going back to a a a neofudalist or or
19:09 like a like a >> aristocratic
19:10 >> aristocratic
19:12 >> crypto monarch structure that Curtis
19:13 Yarvin advocates for. What I'm
19:17 advocating for is more democracy um
19:20 principled democracy. Not even in the
19:22 the anarchist sense where uh everything
19:24 has to be handled with uh or all
19:26 unjustifiable hierarch hierarchies must
19:28 be abolished through uh direct
19:31 participation. but at least like having
19:33 a more democratic process and getting
19:36 people more involved uh starting at the
19:38 the point of commodity production and
19:40 then moving all the way to political participation.
19:42 participation.
19:46 Um, I want to talk in a minute about
19:48 sort of how you developed this worldview
19:51 and and your background, but I I want to
19:55 pause on that idea of sort of democratic
19:58 change, right? um
20:02 is all effective change democratic or
20:03 you know the thing that the original
20:06 post-lberal Marxists tended to believe
20:08 right was that you know there are
20:09 certain things you can accomplish
20:11 through a democratic system but there's
20:13 also revolutionary moments right to be
20:15 clear this isn't just a Marxist idea
20:16 obviously this is the United States of
20:18 America we're founded on a revolution right
20:19 right
20:23 >> um but like what is what is your view of
20:26 revolution as a
20:28 potential transformative force in the world.
20:29 world.
20:32 >> Uh all politics in my worldview revolves
20:35 around the distribution of resources and
20:37 the distribution of power. And a big
20:38 part of that component is of course
20:41 violence as well. Revolutionary violence
20:44 for example. And um it just simply means
20:47 like who gets to do the violence
20:49 >> and who gets to be on the receiving end
20:51 of that violence that we have normalized
20:52 because the systems that we exist under
20:54 are inherently violent. all political
20:57 systems are um it's just more so uh
21:01 about redirecting that and I know
21:04 violence is such a scary concept in this
21:06 uh in this when we're discussing in this
21:07 way but we're talking about it in an
21:12 academic context um but um but basically
21:15 the the idea is instead of having a
21:17 system that currently benefits the the
21:21 very few uh I I want
21:24 a system that benefits as many people as
21:26 possible that has more, like I said,
21:28 egalitarian outcomes.
21:29 >> Did it not seem like he just wanted you
21:32 arrested a little bit? I jokingly said
21:36 uh that this is Ross Det very uh gently
21:40 nudging the administration to uh arrest
21:43 me in the aftermath of this interview.
21:46 >> And the current system, as you said,
21:47 uses violence. And yeah, all political
21:50 systems are about the monopoly of force
21:51 in the end, right?
21:54 You use the phrase redirect violence.
21:55 What does it mean to say we need to
21:57 redirect violence?
22:00 >> I mean I first of all I abhore violence.
22:03 Let's just start there, right? But
22:06 violence in this uh abstract concept
22:09 would be equivalent to the the
22:11 structural violence of poverty for
22:13 example. So when I'm talking about
22:15 violence I want to make it very clear.
22:18 I'm not talking like go out take up arms
22:20 and like start shooting people right?
22:22 I'm I'm talking about the structural
22:24 violence of poverty. Redirecting that
22:26 redirect in the same way would be
22:29 >> uh the the structural structural
22:32 violence of equity because structural
22:35 eradication of unjust wealth.
22:37 >> Would that be fair?
22:38 >> That would be that would be a
22:41 >> So the socialist So the socialist society
22:42 society
22:46 >> does not go out and shoot people.
22:47 >> No. Yeah. though this has happened in
22:50 some socialist societies in the past.
22:54 >> I should just note. Um but it goes into
22:56 you live in you live in LA, right?
23:00 >> Um so it goes into you know um Beverly
23:03 Hills or something and it says today
23:06 >> the you know the city council has voted
23:08 to expropriate
23:09 >> expropriate your
23:10 >> dude I'm convinced he used a Reddit
23:12 talking points. No he didn't. He didn't
23:13 use Reddit talking points. This is
23:15 Frosted. Assan is not a revolutionary.
23:16 He just appreciates violence and he uses
23:18 a clip from Asmin when he have sourced
23:21 it from you. No, calm down. This is New
23:23 York Times. They did not source their
23:25 target. This is not the free press. All
23:27 of the snark that you are experiencing
23:29 from Ros Dow that is coming from him and
23:32 maybe one of his like producers. That's
23:35 homegrown. You guys are crazy. You You
23:36 literally don't understand it. I'm sure
23:38 he used the asthma clip cuz like someone
23:41 in his uh someone in his uh in his
23:44 payroll brought it up. But like I will
23:45 say Ross is very good at what he does
23:47 here. He knows what he's doing even
23:48 though I hate it. Yeah, he is setting
23:51 this up and you will see in a second.
23:53 He's setting this up to say your ver
23:56 your world view is violent. And I know
23:57 he's setting it up to say that. And
24:01 that's precisely why I'm starting the
24:04 conversation by describing what I mean
24:05 when we're talking about violence, like
24:07 the structural forms of violence.
24:10 Because basically, poverty is is
24:13 structural violence. Not being able to
24:16 to make rent and then being evicted is
24:19 structural violence, right? Eviction is
24:22 a violent process. And the reversal of
24:25 that process would be seemingly violent
24:28 for those with the power, those with
24:32 capital. It would be violent to force
24:35 the the landlords to no longer be able
24:37 to evict people, for example, or be
24:40 violently taking away their profit
24:42 margins, eradicating or shredding their
24:44 profit margins in its entirety. That
24:47 would be a a a different way to examine
24:50 structural violence in a hypothetical
24:53 socialist utopia. The IRS collecting
24:54 taxes, which I I think brought up in
24:57 this conversation eventually, is what
25:00 libertarians would consider to be the
25:02 state exercising or enforcing its
25:05 monopoly of violence by telling you
25:06 you're going to go to prison if you
25:08 don't pay the taxes. So when I talk
25:10 about structural violence of that sort,
25:13 even the uh reformist positions that I
25:16 have that are fairly modest, reformist
25:18 positions that I have like increasing
25:21 taxes for example, yeah, that will be
25:23 seen as something that is unimaginably
25:24 violent for those who are at the highest
25:26 percentage in the highest tax bracket.
25:28 The reason why I started this
25:29 conversation with structural violence,
25:31 however, is because I know it's going to
25:33 go back to direct violence, the type of
25:37 violence that liberals actually see as
25:39 as truly violent because no one actually
25:40 recognizes structural violence as like
25:43 another form of violence. Lavish
25:45 undeserved wealth and return your homes
25:48 to the people. And that's backed up by
25:51 police power. So, it's violent, but it's
25:53 not it's not, you know, shooting people
25:54 against the wall. But like, is that is
25:56 that what you mean? that kind of redirection.
25:56 redirection.
25:58 >> A similar Yeah, a similar structure I
26:01 think like has been attempted or or uh
26:03 was exhibited in in Cuba and and I think
26:05 it was Fidel Castro himself who
26:10 personally uh took back uh any farmland
26:12 from his own family members that that
26:14 went above and beyond what the state had
26:15 designed. Now obviously this is a
26:18 terrifying concept for a lot of people.
26:21 So this is so far in the future. Yeah,
26:24 this is so far out in the future uh for
26:26 for even someone like myself that like I
26:28 don't even see the necessity of arguing
26:32 on how this would work because I'm more
26:34 invested in especially in the short term
26:36 getting socialized medicine like getting
26:39 universal health care uh getting free
26:41 schooling uh all the way up to the
26:43 college education especially for public
26:46 universities ensuring that we have some
26:48 semblance of of government competition
26:49 if you want to call it that that
26:51 interferes with the with the regular
26:55 market to claw back housing prices for
26:57 example by by creating public housing.
27:01 Uh things that exist in other uh fairly
27:03 robust social democracies and things
27:06 that actually a lot poorer nations have
27:08 been able to develop just good governance.
27:09 governance. >> Okay.
27:11 >> Okay.
27:13 But we're having so we're having a
27:15 debate right now about political
27:18 political violence in the US. Right. So
27:20 yes, I agree. The expropriation of the
27:23 property of wealthy Angelinos is
27:25 abstract and we can, you know, far far
27:27 in the future, right? But debates about
27:29 political violence in this moment
27:33 aren't. And your platform Twitch is
27:35 right now looks like it might be one of
27:37 the Trump administration's
27:39 targets in the aftermath of the Kirk
27:40 shooting. There's been a lot of Isi
27:41 coming at you for living in LA. It's a
27:44 not so subtle jab at like you're a a
27:46 fake revolutionary. You live in a nice
27:48 house. of course you don't want that.
27:50 But he fails to comprehend that like I
27:52 want more equitable outcomes for every
27:55 single person. The example I always use
27:57 was when people would be like socialist
28:01 but as a Porsche. And it's like if in
28:03 the future in Los Angeles if the only
28:06 way that we could achieve robust public
28:09 transit was for me to dump my car into
28:11 the ocean, I'd be the first to dump my
28:13 car into the ocean. I want these
28:16 outcomes for everyone. And yes, this is
28:18 consequential for my bottom line as
28:19 well, but I don't give a but in the
28:21 interim, the idea that like I have to
28:24 live like Dioynes is stupid about, you
28:26 know, we're going to go after
28:28 uh, you know, institutions and
28:30 organizations that support political
28:32 radicalism or incite violence. I think
28:35 Congress is calling CEOs from Discord
28:37 and Steam and Twitch and Reddit to
28:39 testify next month. >> Yeah.
28:39 >> Yeah. >> Um,
28:41 >> Um,
28:43 why are they doing this? Why is why is
28:46 Twitch Why is Twitch a target?
28:49 >> Um I I suspect a big part of the reason
28:51 why Twitch is a target here, even though
28:52 it was not mentioned in the
28:55 investigation at all, like there's no
28:57 evidence that Tyler Robinson, the
28:59 alleged shooter of Charlie Kirk, was
29:01 ever on Twitch. He might have he might
29:03 have been, right? But there's no
29:05 evidence for it uh whatsoever. But the
29:08 reason why uh they're they're being
29:10 called in, I think, is specifically
29:14 because the administration currently is,
29:17 in my opinion, perhaps in a very cynical
29:20 manner, utilizing Charlie Kirk's uh
29:24 death, as a way to bring about significant
29:25 significant
29:28 uh clawbacks of the the First Amendment.
29:31 um free expression and and free
29:34 organization, free free organizing of
29:36 the political left. And they haven't
29:39 necessarily made this a secret either.
29:41 They've gone after Jimmy Kimmel and
29:43 numerous other
29:45 uh cultural figures that conservatives
29:49 have petty grievances around, right? And
29:52 they've done so in a in a way where uh
29:54 even the most vanilla, the most timid
29:57 assessment of events is is enough for
30:00 the administration to pull the FCC in
30:03 >> to to demand uh taking Jimmy Kimmel off
30:05 the air. And this has created tremendous
30:08 backlash from uh even Republicans, as a
30:09 matter of fact, because a lot of people
30:11 do love free speech. I love free speech.
30:14 I come from a country that does not have
30:16 free speech. I came to the United States
30:18 of America from Turkey originally, uh, a
30:20 country that actually does jail
30:22 political dissident and journalists uh,
30:23 quite frequently and I don't want that
30:25 to happen here in the United States of America,
30:26 America,
30:28 >> right? So, it's it's
30:29 >> but that is what they're going towards,
30:31 >> right? So, you have you have the Jimmy
30:33 Kimmel controversy as of
30:36 >> Yeah. Look, he's like he his position
30:38 basically is he doesn't ever fully say
30:40 it, but his position basically is,
30:41 "Yeah, it's really stupid that they went
30:42 after Jimmy Kimmel. They should have
30:51 cuz you do deserve getting arrested for
30:54 your speech. As of this conversation,
30:57 he's back on the air. But what they're
30:59 doing with calling in Twitch and so on,
31:02 like that's that's kind of about you,
31:05 right? Like you are you are a target
31:06 >> for sure,
31:09 >> right? And are you a target? Are you a
31:12 target just just because you say, you
31:13 know, you're some kind of Marxist who
31:15 wants to be post-lberal, or is it
31:17 something else?
31:21 >> I think uh conservatives have a really
31:25 great way of designing a narrative that
31:27 makes sense to as broad of an audience
31:30 as possible, even though their own
31:32 setback is is
31:35 >> uh often times uh how hard they go after
31:38 certain people. Um, but in the in the
31:40 grand design of things, if you look at
31:42 like the Antifa designation as a
31:44 domestic terror group, for example, if
31:46 you read the executive order, it makes
31:48 sense. They're they're presenting this
31:52 as a as a uh this this violent leftist
31:54 organized unit that is like responsible
31:56 for so much political violence that's
31:58 taking place. It's of course built up uh
32:01 around this hysteria that they expertly
32:04 craft as a media narrative first and
32:06 foremost, but then but then they they
32:09 want to tackle it. Notice how any time I
32:11 start cooking, he goes, "Okay." And he
32:13 has to interject. I want to talk about
32:16 some serious and he's like, "Okay, but
32:18 what about you?" He's teasing the idea
32:19 of you being violent might have more
32:20 validity than you're leading on is
32:22 snarky and gross. No, I know that. I
32:25 know that. I knew that going in. That's
32:27 why I have to keep steamrolling through
32:29 it to get to the meat of the matter
32:30 because I also know the environment that
32:33 I'm in. I'm speaking not to Ross Doubt
32:35 it. I'm speaking to New York Times
32:38 readers which also include, you know,
32:39 right-wing Republicans and conservatives
32:40 that are going to see this and be like,
32:43 "Wow, this is a dangerous guy." So, on
32:45 the one hand, that's what I'm cognizant
32:49 of. But also on the other hand, I I I
32:51 know that the the the
32:55 real thing that Ros Dowit is not
32:57 interested in talking about because he
32:59 is a Republican
33:01 is the fact that the administration is
33:03 doing that. But he wants to legitimize
33:06 the administration's actions in that
33:08 direction by simply saying, "Well, you
33:09 kind of deserve it, though. So if they
33:12 do come after you, don't you think you
33:14 deserve it?" And yes, the New York Times
33:17 readership is liberal, but Ross doubt it
33:20 is not. Or unless you mean liberal in
33:23 like the the actual political theory.
33:25 What were your objectives? Inform and
33:26 convince them. No, my object my
33:30 objectives were to talk to a right-wing
33:32 figure at the New York Times who was a a
33:35 pretty decent interviewer uh and get
33:39 across some of my fears. get across some
33:40 of my fears about the Trump
33:42 administration so that as broad an
33:44 audience of New York New York Times
33:46 readership as possible is also aware.
33:48 It's the same [ __ ] that I do here every
33:50 day. Everyone is in the business of
33:52 crafting media narratives, right? And the
33:52 the
33:53 >> I wish Democrats were a little bit
33:54 better at it to be fair. The media
33:57 narrative around Antifa, right, exists
33:59 at some level of hype, but also some
34:01 level of reality because if you lived in
34:03 Portland, Oregon in the year of our Lord
34:06 2020, you had a lot of experiences of
34:07 political protest and violence that
34:09 involved people who called themselves
34:12 Antifa. That was not fake, right? And
34:13 it's also not fake that you are a
34:16 provocator, right? like they're not, you
34:18 know, there there are plenty of people
34:19 on Twitch who
34:22 >> he also will add a second thing onto the
34:24 back end that I agree with cuz like I do
34:26 agree with being a political provocator.
34:28 I don't agree with the Antifa
34:29 designation, but I agree with being
34:32 called a political provocator. So, in
34:33 that vein, like it looks like I'm
34:34 agreeing with everything he's saying,
34:35 but I'm actually agreeing with the
34:36 second half of the statement
34:38 >> are, you know, who they're not who who
34:41 are not highlighted by conservatives,
34:43 right? I just want to give you one more
34:47 chance to describe the things about you
34:49 in your own words that people are going
34:51 after before I describe them for you.
34:54 >> Yeah. No, I I I'm sure that we'll get to
34:56 that point as well, but like I said,
34:57 >> in just a second we will.
34:59 >> The things the things that I the things
35:02 that I advocate for are pretty clear.
35:05 Um, but of course it's this is something
35:06 that conservatives have experienced and
35:09 have considered cancel culture or like
35:12 wokeness uh in particular for for quite
35:15 a bit where you can just like reframe
35:17 someone and and smear them especially in
35:21 the format that uh that I exist in. It's
35:23 quite simple to take people completely
35:26 out of context or make it seem as though
35:29 they are incapable of using metaphor or
35:32 uh incapable of being insincere or or um
35:35 hyperbolic in moments, right? And so it
35:37 it kind of goes back to the same thing
35:40 is like Antifa is a serious threat to
35:42 American stability and order and it's an
35:44 organized unit that must be tackled
35:47 because they're justifying uh violence
35:49 against uh you know,
35:50 >> and what do they think you are?
35:52 and things of that nature.
35:53 >> The equivalent of that would be
35:54 conservatives saying that you're
35:56 inciting violence, right?
35:58 >> Yes. I think that is precisely what
36:00 they're going to try to do. And not just
36:04 like inciting violence necessarily, but
36:05 uh inciting terror. >> Right.
36:06 >> Right.
36:08 >> Revolutionary terror, you might say.
36:10 >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And I think that
36:13 is the grand design and the ways in
36:16 which uh the the conservative apparatus
36:19 is going to try and stamp out any sort
36:22 of political discontent like any sort of
36:25 political disscent really. Um because
36:26 that much has been clear to me where
36:30 it's not just about people like myself
36:32 who they can who they can single out and
36:34 target and say are like you know very
36:37 scary individuals but it's also Gavin
36:39 Newsome, right? like Gavin Newsome will
36:41 come out and and make this symbolic
36:43 gesture where he has no power over
36:46 federal agents, but he'll he'll say that
36:49 in the next year, ICE agents that are
36:52 conducting ICE operations in California
36:54 state have to be unmasked when they're
36:56 doing this, right? And this is I think
36:58 it's a fairly reasonable provision even
37:00 though it's uh it's ultimately symbolic.
37:02 Having said that, however, could the
37:03 conservative apparatus will point to
37:06 that as like Gavin Newsome wants to kill
37:08 ICE agents and docks them? Like that's
37:11 not the case, right? I mean, that's just
37:12 that's ridiculous.
37:13 >> All right, so let's let's let's make
37:13 this a little more.
37:15 >> Yeah, he hates when I he hated every
37:18 single time I compared myself. every
37:20 single time I packaged like what the
37:23 administration is actually doing, he
37:26 would just get a little annoyed and try
37:30 to get it back to just me cuz his entire
37:33 framework is like the administration
37:35 might come after you and when that
37:37 happens it's actually totally just
37:40 because you're a rabble rouser.
37:42 Now, of course, obviously, he doesn't
37:44 fully subscribe to that notion because
37:46 if he thought I was like a dangerous
37:48 terrorist, he wouldn't be having a
37:50 non-contentious conversation with or
37:51 somewhat contentious conversation with
37:54 me. But he is actively in this
37:56 conversation trying to separate me from
37:57 the likes of Jimmy Kimmel and separate
37:59 me from the likes of Gavin Newsome. But
38:02 from the administration's perspective,
38:04 there is no stopping. And that's my
38:07 point. There is no there is no stopping
38:10 at Hassan Hassan Abi [ __ ] the dangerous
38:13 radical because I'm not a dangerous
38:16 radical to begin with. I think he might
38:18 consider me that, but he's also, you
38:21 know, a pro-life Republican and someone
38:23 who's very right-wing. Like I I consider
38:26 him to be a dangerous radical, right?
38:29 So, the goal here is to to separate me
38:32 from the rest of the crop of like, you
38:34 know, high-profile liberals that the
38:36 administration is going after. But
38:37 unfortunately for him, the
38:39 administration is going after them even
38:41 harder than they're going after me. So,
38:42 that's why he keeps getting annoyed. And
38:44 it's not even that he's annoyed with me,
38:45 it's more so that he's annoyed with the
38:47 administration. Did he think you were a
38:48 [ __ ] going into this? He really
38:49 undermined his own approach by letting
38:51 you humanize and contextualize these
38:52 topics before his analysis? No. I think
38:55 that was fair of him to do so. I think I
38:57 don't think he thinks I'm a [ __ ] but I
38:58 don't but I think he thought that I
39:00 would dance around too much and I
39:03 wouldn't appear confident in my world
39:05 view. I mean, think about it this way.
39:07 He had this convers he had a similar
39:09 conversation with like Peter Theel, for
39:12 example. He talks to a lot of very
39:14 powerful people who are very confident
39:16 in their abilities even if they actually
39:18 don't have the skill to to properly
39:20 communicate their positions. Peter Theal
39:22 is one of those people and that's why he
39:24 had like a awesome moment with Peter the
39:26 where he was like are you the antichrist
39:27 and he's like uh uh or do you want
39:29 humanity to survive and he's like uh uh
39:32 I don't know. I think that's maybe what
39:34 he thought he could get out of this
39:35 potentially cuz I don't think he's like
39:38 a huge fan of mine or anything. I think
39:40 he thought like even if he even if he
39:41 was like charitable in the beginning he
39:43 would be able to cook. But the problem
39:46 there is twofold. one, while he might
39:47 consider my worldview to be radical, I
39:50 don't think it actually is. It might
39:53 come across as uh radical if you if you
39:54 look at like some edge cases or
39:57 whatever, some clips out of context. But
39:59 he's not indecent enough to go that hard
40:01 on that kind of stuff, cuz that's like
40:03 not the New York Times way.
40:05 Cuz if he were to go that hard, then I
40:07 think even the New York Times audience
40:10 would be like, "The are you doing?" Like
40:11 at a time when Donald Trump is the
40:13 president and and Donald Trump is
40:14 literally talking about killing
40:17 protesters and you're focusing on some
40:18 like random leftwing Twitch streamer
40:20 that I've never heard of the this like
40:21 it would look he would look too
40:23 insincere. He thought you would spend
40:24 all your time defending yourselves
40:25 instead of criticizing the administic
40:27 actions. That's also true that but I'm
40:29 not I'm not there to talk about myself.
40:31 Zora Mumdani does a very good job with
40:33 this as well. I haven't fought you for
40:34 long time. Am I missing something? How
40:35 they think you're violent? I assume you
40:37 share the same confusion. Don't make
40:39 sense. No, I know. I know exactly where
40:42 that uh uh animosity is coming from. Uh
40:44 there are there are clips out there of
40:46 course over the course of tens of
40:48 thousands of hours that people could
40:50 point to from many many years ago or
40:53 even recently like when uh when I talked
40:55 about how Democrats need to be cutthroat
40:57 in debates. They need to shank their
41:00 opponents. Like I'm being hyperbolic,
41:01 but Republicans would clip that to be
41:03 like he wants people to kill people.
41:05 like he wants dem he wants Nancy Pelosi
41:06 to take a knife out and like
41:09 unironically stab you know Mike Johnson
41:11 or some like there are plenty of
41:12 instances where you can do that to
41:14 someone like myself especially the way
41:16 I've come to terms with this is that it
41:19 is virtually impossible for any human
41:23 being on the planet who speaks to as
41:25 large an audience as I do for as long as
41:28 I have in a medium where there is
41:30 constant back and forth communication
41:32 with haters and whatnot it is virtually
41:34 impossible for them to remain
41:37 infallible, to look like they have never
41:39 had a moment that can be clipped out of
41:42 context. It's impossible.
41:46 >> You are telling a story where it's you
41:48 and Jimmy Kimmel and Gavin Newsome,
41:50 right? And you're all targets of the conservative.
41:51 conservative.
41:52 >> I don't want to ask him if he thinks
41:53 Alice Jones should be in prison because
41:55 I think he would say yes.
41:58 >> Paratus. Okay. But you're you're pretty
42:00 different from Jimmy Kimmel and Gavin
42:02 Newsome in part a lot for reasons we
42:03 were just discussing, right? They're
42:06 liberals. They're good milktoast
42:08 liberals, whatever they may say.
42:09 >> And you are more radical. You're
42:12 post-liberal in some way. You want a
42:13 different a different horizon, a
42:15 different future.
42:19 >> But beyond that, you are also willing to
42:22 push your rhetoric further than they do.
42:23 Certainly further than Jimmy Kimmel
42:25 does. Right. And I say this, I want to
42:27 be clear. I have a pretty high tolerance
42:29 for, let's say, vivid political
42:31 rhetoric. I came of age as a newspaper
42:34 columnist in the 2010s when my liberal
42:36 friends were all saying like, "Oh, every
42:38 time the Tea Party, you know, talks
42:40 about revolution and taking our country
42:42 back, they're inciting violence." And
42:44 now I live in a world where my
42:46 conservative friends say Gavin Newsome's
42:48 inciting violence. Anyone who calls
42:50 Trump a fascist is fighting violence. I
42:51 think this is a I think this
42:52 >> not even a Hassan [ __ ] fan. And I do
42:54 not understand how people blame him for
42:57 barely existing leftist bias. Um, you
42:59 should have gone harder for the on the
43:00 cancer of liberalism to the New York
43:02 Times audience in my opinion. No, I need
43:03 the liberals who are reading the
43:05 newspaper to be my allies when the
43:08 administration comes after me. You're
43:09 wrong. Your analysis is not even
43:10 controversial from most political
43:12 science. I do not understand why you get
43:13 so much hate. You can read books with
43:16 similar analysis to yours. Yes, because
43:19 those are books that you read in college
43:23 and they're not being blasted on the
43:26 timeline to hundreds of thousands of
43:29 young people in America. That's the
43:31 difference. Like I'll give you an
43:34 example. The the indigenous rights
43:36 professor at Cornell University who's
43:40 Jewish was uh recently suspended for
43:42 teaching a course on Palestine. Okay.
43:45 Okay, the professor is Jewish and that
43:46 professor was suspended after like, you
43:49 know, there was like a unit 8200 IDF guy
43:50 in the class. He was like filming
43:51 people. He was being disruptive,
43:54 whatever, right? But that professor
43:57 initially was targeted by Canary Mission
43:59 and Richie Torres. Why am I talking
44:01 about this professor? Because it proves
44:03 the argument that I'm presenting to you.
44:06 When Canary Mission actually targeted
44:07 this professor, I'm going to pull the
44:09 quote for you real quick. They actually
44:11 pointed to something that he talked
44:16 about in his lecture. The thing he said
44:20 only comes across as offensive to those
44:23 who are completely
44:25 not knowledgeable about the issue about
44:28 Hamas. This was it. Are you ready?
44:31 Richie Torres posting a Canary mission
44:34 uh uh tweet says, "Eric Chaffitz, who's
44:35 a Cornell professor, demonizes Israel
44:37 and lionizes Hamas, treating good and
44:39 evil as evil, good as evil, and evil is
44:41 good. He insists Hamas is morally
44:42 different from al-Qaeda and ISIS because
44:44 it does not advocate for universal
44:45 jihad. It simply seeks to wipe Israel
44:47 off the map. Chafitz is untroubled by
44:49 genocide when the target is the homeland
44:50 of the Jewish people. Poisonous
44:51 professors like Chafitz are poisoning
44:53 young minds at taxpayer expense." This
44:55 is the quote. Unlike al-Qaeda or ISIS,
44:57 Hamas does not advocate for universal
44:59 jihad. It is focused solely on the
45:01 liberation of Palestine from Zionist
45:03 fundamentalism in parentheses apartheid
45:05 and the end of the state of Israel.
45:09 November 4th, 2023. Now, nothing that
45:12 Eric Chafitz, who is Jewish himself, by
45:14 the way, said there is actually even
45:17 remotely offensive. As a matter of fact,
45:19 it's the exact opposite. It is what you
45:21 need from college professors. You need
45:25 honesty and truth from educators in
45:27 these esteemed institutes of higher
45:30 learning like Cornell. What he is saying
45:32 is factually accurate.
45:35 Okay, this is not an opinion.
45:38 This is just a fact. He is describing a
45:42 fact. But to the broader audience, that
45:45 fact is something that they don't want
45:47 to hear. That's a fact that they do not
45:49 want to hear. So what do they do? They
45:52 bastardize that fact. they chop it up or
45:54 sometimes directly present that
45:56 factually accurate statement and go,
45:58 "Can you believe this college professor
46:01 said this?" So yes, while certain things
46:03 might be completely true in an academic
46:06 context, it can be very dangerous for a
46:09 much larger audience to hear that scary
46:12 truth, at least in the eyes of those who
46:14 are very powerful and have an interest
46:16 in making sure that the broader audience
46:20 doesn't hear the truth. So, my problem
46:22 isn't that I'm engaging in like violent
46:25 rhetoric or whatever. My problem is that
46:28 I'm saying stuff like this, but often
46:32 times also using hyperbole, jokes, and
46:35 making that process as entertaining as
46:38 possible. And because of that, I'm able
46:40 to do that to a much larger audience
46:41 than a college professor could in their
46:44 own lecture. That's the fear. That's
46:48 what makes it so uh so crazy for a lot
46:50 of people because if Eric Chavis was
46:53 saying that on a Twitch stream, he'd get
46:55 yelled at all the same. As a matter of
46:56 fact, he's getting yelled at for doing
47:00 it in a lecture that is directly about
47:03 anti-colonial movements. His lecture is
47:07 about Hamas. His lecture is about other
47:09 indigenous movements that have fought
47:12 against uh previous forms of empire and
47:15 contemporary current forms of empire,
47:17 imperial power. It's the medium that I
47:19 do it and the way that I do it that
47:22 makes it uh very scary for a lot of
47:25 people because before the internet there
47:28 was a filter as Noom Chsky talks about.
47:30 There was a filter for someone to reach
47:32 a very broad audience to reach this
47:34 massive audience massive number of
47:37 people. You could only get there if you
47:39 were from an aristocratic family or you
47:41 went to the right schools. You kissed
47:44 the right asses and you chose your words
47:47 very carefully and you got elevated
47:48 through the regular process in
47:51 mainstream news. And therefore people
47:54 self-censored in order to get to that
47:57 level in order to be in front of in
47:59 order to have the privilege of being in
48:02 front of a massive audience and to be
48:05 able to influence them. Whether they
48:07 were going through that process in a
48:08 newspaper, whether they were going
48:09 through that process through a
48:11 television channel, doesn't matter. But
48:13 now that the internet exists, you can
48:15 have even larger audiences than CNN
48:18 while sitting in a hotel room or while
48:20 sitting in your own living room. And you
48:21 don't have to filter yourself in that
48:24 same way. But that's what's so scary
48:27 about what I'm doing. That's what's so
48:29 uh worrisome about what I'm doing
48:31 because you can't have people being
48:34 like, "Israel is a illegal criminal
48:36 entity that is doing genocide." Because
48:38 if there weren't more independent voices
48:39 on the internet, if there wasn't Tik
48:40 Tok, there wasn't like people on Twitter
48:42 and whatnot saying this over and over
48:44 again, you wouldn't see this level of
48:46 mass discontent. It's about controlling
48:49 flows of information. Why do why do we
48:53 think Tik Tok was sold to Larry Ellison?
48:56 Because the algorithm that was
48:58 previously controlled by a foreign
49:02 government was allowing unique thoughts
49:05 to flourish in that algorithm. allowing
49:07 thoughts that normally allowing speech
49:12 that normally would not ever be heard in
49:14 front of as broad of an audience as it
49:16 was being heard on Tik Tok. If this
49:18 wasn't so important or so scary for
49:21 those who want to control flows of
49:22 information, if it if they didn't
49:23 consider this to be dangerous, they
49:24 wouldn't have sold Tik Tok. They
49:26 wouldn't have forced Tik Tok to be sold
49:28 to someone who is one of the biggest
49:31 donors to the IDF. Right. Yes. Even
49:32 after the sale, it's still controlled by
49:34 a foreign government. I know it's Israel
49:36 instead of China. I know doesn't matter
49:38 >> the country. I think if you want to call
49:40 Donald Trump a fascist, you're free to
49:42 do so. If I want to call you a commie,
49:44 I'm free to I'm free to do so. You know,
49:44 >> people do it all the time.
49:47 >> People do it all the time. I you know,
49:51 >> but this is my reading and I'll let you
49:52 tell me why I'm wrong in a minute. I
49:55 think you push further and I think you
49:57 like to play with the rhetoric of
49:59 violence. So like you were suspended
50:02 from Twitch I think for a day. Still you
50:02 are arguing for a process of
50:04 consolidation that should be normal in a
50:05 functioning democracy not calling for
50:08 anarchy or violence. I know but his
50:10 entire purpose here is to say I am
50:12 actively calling for violence and if he
50:15 if I were to like when he initially
50:18 started asking me about like you know
50:21 what my worldview is he wanted me to say
50:22 like no through a system of violence we
50:23 will seize the means of production or
50:25 some so we could just start talking
50:27 about how dangerous of a rhetoric it is.
50:28 And for the record, there are plenty of
50:30 people who do believe that. And no,
50:32 that's not a dangerous rhetoric either.
50:34 Let's be real, that's not actually
50:36 dangerous rhetoric. Partially because
50:39 it's completely marginal and partially
50:42 because of the same exact underlying
50:43 principle that I mentioned as well,
50:46 which is structural violence being uh a
50:49 a a constant and permanent part of
50:52 people's existence. My point is uh there
50:53 are people who do believe that and they
50:56 are either marginal figures or overall
50:59 at most they're talking about like
51:02 historic examples that have existed. And
51:04 the only reason why we see that as like
51:06 a form of violence as opposed to like
51:08 World War II being a form of violence
51:10 that is like permissible is because
51:11 they're on the other side. They're on
51:12 the opposing side. We're capitalists.
51:15 It's that simple. If the entire world
51:17 was socialist and you had a bunch of
51:19 capitalists living in a socialist
51:21 government and they were fantasizing
51:23 about capitalist forms of violence, the
51:24 socialist government would look at that
51:26 and go, "This is dangerous. This is
51:28 violent rhetoric." It's that simple. We
51:31 live in a capitalist country. Of course,
51:32 any sort of redistributive policies are
51:35 are looked at with tremendous scrutiny.
51:37 Obviously, that's the reason why people
51:39 evening yell at me when I say we we want
51:41 to give socialized medicine to
51:45 Americans. like that is seen as a
51:46 dangerous prospect, a dangerous
51:48 proposition for many people.
51:49 >> It was argument you're having about
51:51 Medicare fraud, right?
51:53 >> And the GOP was going to crack down on
51:55 Medicare fraud. And you said, well, if
51:56 they really cared about Medicare fraud
51:58 or Medicaid fraud, you would kill Rick
52:00 Scott. This is the Florida Center. And
52:01 it's a reference to the fact that
52:02 Scott's company
52:05 >> uh paid some huge fines for they they
52:06 were engaged in some kind of Medicare
52:09 fraud, right? But you didn't say we
52:11 should put Rick Scott in jail for
52:13 Medicare fraud, right? You said
52:15 >> if you cared about Medicare fraud or
52:19 Medicaid fraud, you would Rick Scott,
52:21 okay? You wouldn't make Rick Scott
52:23 former governor of Florida Rick Scott.
52:24 >> This is not as gold clip. This is from
52:26 my own YouTube video chatters.
52:29 >> You wouldn't make him uh a prominent
52:31 part of the Republican party.
52:33 >> Well, this was for the record. Yeah,
52:36 >> this was a in response directly to Mike
52:38 Johnson and it is something that I take
52:40 ownership over. I did I did apologize
52:42 for the language that I use instead of
52:43 saying like, you know, just you should
52:44 jail Rick Scott, >> right?
52:45 >> right?
52:46 >> Uh which would have been the most
52:49 inoffensive. It was a hyperbolic
52:52 statement that I made uh not with like
52:54 uh any sort of significant death threat
52:56 issued to a sitting elected
52:58 representative. Obviously,
53:00 >> I agree. I don't think I issuing a death
53:01 threat. I agree.
53:03 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, but but you're right
53:06 that is hyperbolic language for sure and
53:09 it's it's uh it's one statement in a
53:12 grand uh sea of others that that of
53:15 course gets highlighted through the same
53:17 outrage machine and then uh people
53:19 demand punishments and then those
53:21 punishments do come down and it causes
53:23 me to be even more careful with my
53:25 language. Having said that, given the
53:27 10-hour format that I have, there are
53:28 definitely going to be weak moments
53:30 where I just like say something without
53:32 even thinking about what that might come
53:34 across as. >> Yeah,
53:35 >> Yeah,
53:38 I mean, you do. Again, I I read I read through
53:39 through
53:41 you have a lot of content,
53:42 >> right? So, I'm not going to tell you
53:44 that I have read through every every
53:47 hour, every transcript. Um, >> yeah,
53:47 >> yeah,
53:49 >> but I feel like I read enough to get a
53:51 sense of sort of what you mean by
53:53 hyperbole, right? And it means it means
53:55 different things, right? It means like
53:57 you're you know you're talking about
53:59 you're talking about landlords and why
54:01 they're bad. I think you were t you know
54:03 you were talking to a landlord friend at
54:04 the time, right? But you said, you know,
54:06 let the street soak in their bleeping
54:09 red capitalist blood, dude. >> Right.
54:09 >> Right.
54:10 >> So yeah, I don't
54:13 >> and I also said in a video game, but right
54:13 right
54:16 >> to to showcase the silliness of the
54:17 statement of
54:19 >> Right. Okay. So it's like ironic or is
54:21 it Marxist revolutionary rhetoric? I I
54:23 just want to bring this to a fine point.
54:26 There's the great case of Luigi Manion,
54:29 right? Um who is charged with murdering
54:30 the CEO.
54:31 >> Unsurprising that this is presented as
54:32 some kind of advanced level tone
54:35 policing critique. Yeah, I mean that
54:36 that is what it is. Why is he talking to
54:39 you like the school principal? Because
54:42 that's what's going on. Aka he read
54:44 whatever viral conservatives think this
54:45 guy wants to genocide the wise clips.
54:47 Guys, it doesn't matter. Those clips are
54:51 out there. Ross Douet is probably one of
54:54 the I would say one of the better uh
54:57 formats and one of the better Republican
54:59 thinkers to address those clips with. No
55:00 way people are saying you lost the
55:02 debate. No. Who the [ __ ] is saying that?
55:04 The comments don't seem to think that at
55:05 all. They actually enjoy the
55:08 conversation. Dude, I coulding
55:10 absolutely eviscerate whatever
55:12 interlocator in the marketplace of ideas
55:14 and there is going to be a crop of
55:16 people online who are going to say,
55:18 "Dude, he got owned." That's just what
55:22 they do. Those are the same people who
55:24 quite literally when I made a public
55:26 statement about not going to TwitchCon
55:29 out of concern for the safety of others
55:31 around me, not even myself, but the
55:33 safety of others around me. Literally
55:35 use that as an opportunity to dunk. You
55:36 need to you need to understand like
55:38 these there's just gonna be people that
55:40 do that regardless
55:42 >> of United Healthcare in broad daylight
55:45 in New York City and you're going to
55:46 tell me that you've always said that
55:49 murder is wrong and that Luigi Banjon
55:52 should not have committed murder. Um,
55:56 but you've talked a lot about Luigi and you
55:57 you
55:58 >> I think it's one of the most
56:00 consequential it's one of the most
56:02 consequential instances of adventurism
56:05 which I always will say is
56:09 >> wrong because I think it invokes social
56:12 instability which I think is is bad in
56:15 general to to exist under. But what I
56:17 try to always do, especially with the
56:19 Luigi Manion case, is to talk about the
56:22 concept, for example, of social murder,
56:25 the notion of of our our systems that
56:26 already exist, like the the
56:28 privatization of healthcare and the
56:33 denial of care that uh that make people
56:35 infinitely less tolerant than we
56:39 normally would in a civilized society to
56:42 an adventurist act of of violence such
56:44 as the case with Luigi Manion. Who is
56:47 we? I'm interested in talking about just
56:47 pause there.
56:49 >> That make you're talking because this is
56:51 this is something you've done
56:53 >> a bunch, right? You sort of
56:56 >> you don't say I love Luigi. You're like
56:59 we people people are you know he's seen
57:01 as a positive figure for most of
57:03 America. He says I'm going to dish out
57:05 what many Americans have experienced to
57:06 the figurehead
57:10 >> of that of that pain. Right. Mhm.
57:14 >> Do you think like most Americans
57:17 sympathize with like who who is the we
57:20 who looks at shooting United Healthcare
57:24 CEO and says that's understandable.
57:28 >> I think it's the people online that are
57:31 not necessarily like card carrying DSA
57:32 members or whatnot, but just like
57:34 >> that's Democratic Socialist of America
57:34 just for
57:36 >> you know. Yeah. Yeah. not not the like
57:38 the DSA guys or the Democratic Socialism
57:40 of America or or you know Party for
57:42 Socialism and Liberation, but it's like
57:44 the the Barbers and the Deborres as I
57:46 like to call it that you know live in
57:51 the Midwest and are are uh truly
57:55 uh repulsed by the way that uh that
57:57 private healthc care operates in this
58:00 country. And for them, I think the Luigi
58:02 Mun case is really unique because
58:04 Americans do not like political
58:07 violence, right? Nobody likes it. I
58:09 mean, it's this is poll after poll that
58:12 has shown everyone thinks that obviously
58:14 murder is wrong. Uh I think murder is
58:16 wrong. Everyone thinks political
58:18 violence is wrong. And yet in the case
58:22 of Luigi Manion, a lot of people I think
58:26 had such a deep personal experience with
58:28 the way that the health care system has
58:31 harmed them in some way that the
58:34 reaction ultimately was very different
58:37 than one I had expected. From the moment
58:39 that before they even found out who the
58:41 alleged shooter was, from the moment
58:44 that people recognized that the victim
58:49 was the faceless uh uh CEO of a
58:51 healthcare company, everyone immediately
58:53 understood not faceless, right?
58:55 >> No, no. I'm saying like for
58:57 >> for most people, the healthcare company
58:59 had previously been faceless and now
59:01 there was a debt ban who had a face. >> Right.
59:02 >> Right.
59:06 >> Exactly. and and I think that was a
59:07 unique case that needed to be examined
59:09 and that's precisely the reason why the
59:10 media was covering it in the same way as
59:12 well. The only difference is that
59:14 tonally speaking they were just more so
59:17 outraged by the reaction in of itself
59:19 rather than trying to examine why people
59:21 felt this way. And I think what I try to
59:23 do in this situ I mean look at this bro
59:25 look at this
59:29 yuggov December 17th 2024
59:31 net favorability of Luigi Manion 18 to
59:34 29 year olds plus 9% 30 to 44 year olds
59:39 minus 1%. I mean that's crazy 18 to 44
59:42 either as a positive opinion or like
59:45 50/50 split on them. Yeah. If people
59:49 have more financial security, then they
59:51 have uh they they have less interest in
59:54 in this kind of like dangerously uh
59:57 unstable moment. That's it. If people
59:59 are hopeless about their future, they
60:02 end up leaning on adventurism. That is my argument. That is the point I'm
60:04 my argument. That is the point I'm making. It took people recognizing who
60:07 making. It took people recognizing who the victim's job. not who the victim
60:10 the victim's job. not who the victim was, but just what the job was of the
60:13 was, but just what the job was of the CEO or of the of the person who was shot
60:15 CEO or of the of the person who was shot for them to immediately know, oh, I know
60:18 for them to immediately know, oh, I know what happened here. If Luigi Manion went
60:20 what happened here. If Luigi Manion went out and shot a cop, they would not have
60:22 out and shot a cop, they would not have responded that way. If he went out and
60:25 responded that way. If he went out and shot a politician, even people would not
60:27 shot a politician, even people would not have responded that way. But healthc
60:28 have responded that way. But healthc care is such a universal burden on all
60:31 care is such a universal burden on all Americans that they literally understood
60:35 Americans that they literally understood exactly what the was going on and
60:37 exactly what the was going on and responded the way that they did and many
60:40 responded the way that they did and many others is to explain why people feel
60:43 others is to explain why people feel this way because for them uh when their
60:47 this way because for them uh when their grandparent has cancer and then that
60:49 grandparent has cancer and then that treatment is denied or the coverage is
60:51 treatment is denied or the coverage is denied even though they're paying these
60:53 denied even though they're paying these incredibly costly premiums to this
60:54 incredibly costly premiums to this healthcare company, they view that as
60:57 healthcare company, they view that as murder. They view that as as a a
61:00 murder. They view that as as a a tremendous wrong that was done to them.
61:03 tremendous wrong that was done to them. And I seek to address these problems so
61:05 And I seek to address these problems so that there isn't decentralized forms of
61:08 that there isn't decentralized forms of violence where people uh make up their
61:10 violence where people uh make up their own minds and assume that they have uh
61:12 own minds and assume that they have uh the the righteous vindication and
61:15 the the righteous vindication and they're going to go out and do things
61:16 they're going to go out and do things like this.
61:17 like this. >> I don't know, man. I think you're kind
61:18 >> I don't know, man. I think you're kind of a hype man.
61:19 of a hype man. >> Yeah, but that's not a good that is not
61:21 >> Yeah, but that's not a good that is not a good counter to what I just said. If
61:23 a good counter to what I just said. If we're just going banan forb on just
61:26 we're just going banan forb on just debate. Okay, we're talking about this
61:28 debate. Okay, we're talking about this from just the perspective of a debate.
61:31 from just the perspective of a debate. Okay, I laid it out exactly. I said
61:34 Okay, I laid it out exactly. I said decentralized forms of violence is a
61:37 decentralized forms of violence is a risk. It's a risk for societal collapse
61:40 risk. It's a risk for societal collapse because for many people, society is
61:41 because for many people, society is already unwinding. They understand they
61:44 already unwinding. They understand they they have have universalized this burden
61:47 they have have universalized this burden of private healthcare. for them. They're
61:50 of private healthcare. for them. They're like Brian Thompson for the perspective
61:52 like Brian Thompson for the perspective of the average person is people like
61:55 of the average person is people like Brian Thompson are responsible for a
61:57 Brian Thompson are responsible for a death of a loved one by denying them
61:58 death of a loved one by denying them coverage. I know he's a cog in the
62:00 coverage. I know he's a cog in the machine and I know he's not directly
62:01 machine and I know he's not directly responsible for it, but that's precisely
62:03 responsible for it, but that's precisely how people reflected on it. And of
62:05 how people reflected on it. And of course, I think it's worthy of of
62:07 course, I think it's worthy of of analysis. And he goes, "Yeah, I don't
62:09 analysis. And he goes, "Yeah, I don't know, man.
62:12 know, man. How is that a how how is that? That's
62:17 How is that a how how is that? That's not a counter. I don't know. I think you
62:19 not a counter. I don't know. I think you like it. Okay. Well,
62:22 like it. Okay. Well, why did I describe everything then?
62:27 why did I describe everything then? Check the comments. Everything is
62:28 Check the comments. Everything is negative and he pinned the one neutral
62:29 negative and he pinned the one neutral comment. Yeah, I have it right here. By
62:31 comment. Yeah, I have it right here. By the way, I don't know what he personally
62:32 the way, I don't know what he personally or what the New York Times personally
62:34 or what the New York Times personally pinned, but the reader picks are cooking
62:36 pinned, but the reader picks are cooking them. I'd love to have someone take the
62:38 them. I'd love to have someone take the most controversial statements that have
62:39 most controversial statements that have been espoused by Assad and contrast that
62:40 been espoused by Assad and contrast that with the inflammatory and incipit
62:41 with the inflammatory and incipit language of the mainstream media and the
62:43 language of the mainstream media and the right. I think some folks would be
62:44 right. I think some folks would be surprised that compared to some of
62:45 surprised that compared to some of Kirks, Limbball's or Carson's or Pools
62:47 Kirks, Limbball's or Carson's or Pools or Coward statements, he does not have
62:48 or Coward statements, he does not have nearly the same level of anger or ritual
62:50 nearly the same level of anger or ritual that these people speak on. Truly, we
62:52 that these people speak on. Truly, we live in some interesting times.
62:53 live in some interesting times. Especially in the end, Ross comes across
62:55 Especially in the end, Ross comes across as totally out of his depth in a
62:57 as totally out of his depth in a conversation that he's ostensibly
62:58 conversation that he's ostensibly leading. Hard to not see this whole
63:00 leading. Hard to not see this whole exchange being embleatic of the media
63:01 exchange being embleatic of the media landscape. The traditional media seems
63:03 landscape. The traditional media seems to be operating in an outdated paradigm
63:04 to be operating in an outdated paradigm that stopped in Trump's first term,
63:07 that stopped in Trump's first term, which was nearly a decade ago. Now,
63:09 which was nearly a decade ago. Now, there's no doubt in my mind that Donald
63:10 there's no doubt in my mind that Donald Trump is far more inflammatory than
63:12 Trump is far more inflammatory than anything this man Assan [ __ ] can
63:13 anything this man Assan [ __ ] can possibly say. And Donald Trump and his
63:15 possibly say. And Donald Trump and his disgraceful minions have proven that
63:16 disgraceful minions have proven that they will attempt to carry out even uh
63:18 they will attempt to carry out even uh every one of their violent and divisive
63:20 every one of their violent and divisive acts in the name of my government.
63:21 acts in the name of my government. Whatever Mr. Assan expresses, and I'm
63:22 Whatever Mr. Assan expresses, and I'm not at all familiar with him, I cannot
63:24 not at all familiar with him, I cannot express how disturbing I find the blas
63:26 express how disturbing I find the blas manner in which Mr. Doubted attempts to
63:28 manner in which Mr. Doubted attempts to associate people like me with violent
63:29 associate people like me with violent rhetoric wherever it rears ugly head,
63:31 rhetoric wherever it rears ugly head, especially while he winks away through
63:33 especially while he winks away through the disgrace of this administration. He
63:35 the disgrace of this administration. He explicitly says he doesn't endorse
63:36 explicitly says he doesn't endorse violence. So strange title. The double
63:39 violence. So strange title. The double standard that the left has to be a
63:40 standard that the left has to be a paragon of virtue while they say
63:41 paragon of virtue while they say everyone deserves healthcare, food, and
63:42 everyone deserves healthcare, food, and a roof over their head is insane.
63:44 a roof over their head is insane. Advocating for policies that end state
63:45 Advocating for policies that end state violence is far less violent than what
63:47 violence is far less violent than what the right does and says.
63:49 the right does and says. Assan has a better grasp of political
63:51 Assan has a better grasp of political working-class politics and the youth
63:52 working-class politics and the youth vote than 99.9% of elected Democrats.
63:55 vote than 99.9% of elected Democrats. Now do the version where you investigate
63:56 Now do the version where you investigate most of all political and cultural
63:58 most of all political and cultural figures on the right. You don't see
64:00 figures on the right. You don't see permission for violence in Kirk saying
64:01 permission for violence in Kirk saying that gay should be stoned to death. In
64:03 that gay should be stoned to death. In Kirk saying that he's willing to accept
64:04 Kirk saying that he's willing to accept some gun deaths to maintain American gun
64:06 some gun deaths to maintain American gun culture. and Kirk saying trans people
64:07 culture. and Kirk saying trans people should be lobbottomized. This is like
64:08 should be lobbottomized. This is like people dunking on this Patrick guy who I
64:10 people dunking on this Patrick guy who I guess said something like negative about
64:12 guess said something like negative about me. You found the original Patrick
64:14 me. You found the original Patrick comment. I'm not MAGA. Voted for Harris,
64:16 comment. I'm not MAGA. Voted for Harris, but I'll take 10,000 Charlie Kirks over
64:23 but I'll take 10,000 Charlie Kirks over 10,000 Pikers any day of the week.
64:24 10,000 Pikers any day of the week. Piker's all over the map as you'd expect
64:26 Piker's all over the map as you'd expect from someone who streams his conscious 7
64:27 from someone who streams his conscious 7 hours a day. But there's an unmistakable
64:29 hours a day. But there's an unmistakable permission for violence that runs
64:30 permission for violence that runs through his interview. Charlie Kirk
64:31 through his interview. Charlie Kirk never did that. Ezra Klein took a lot of
64:33 never did that. Ezra Klein took a lot of grief for complimenting Kirk's style,
64:34 grief for complimenting Kirk's style, but I much prefer the one-on-one logical
64:35 but I much prefer the one-on-one logical argumentative style over the run-on
64:37 argumentative style over the run-on formless dialogue with unseen and
64:39 formless dialogue with unseen and unheard viewers peppering him with cash
64:40 unheard viewers peppering him with cash dips that characterizes Piker's whole
64:41 dips that characterizes Piker's whole stick. By which I mean, [ __ ] was a
64:44 stick. By which I mean, [ __ ] was a great interview subject. Nicely done,
64:45 great interview subject. Nicely done, Mr. Doued. I'm sure that many of your
64:47 Mr. Doued. I'm sure that many of your readers/ listeners had no idea who [ __ ]
64:48 readers/ listeners had no idea who [ __ ] is or what he does or the way he offers
64:50 is or what he does or the way he offers excuses for shocking violence under the
64:52 excuses for shocking violence under the banner of socialism and progressivism.
64:55 banner of socialism and progressivism. And every one of the New York Times
64:56 And every one of the New York Times readers is like, "What the are you
64:58 readers is like, "What the are you talking about? This is ludicrously
65:00 talking about? This is ludicrously revisionist about Charlie Kirk's public
65:01 revisionist about Charlie Kirk's public stances. Things like Islam is the sword
65:03 stances. Things like Islam is the sword of the left is using to slit the throat
65:05 of the left is using to slit the throat of America. Do you think that that's a
65:06 of America. Do you think that that's a call for his followers to engage in
65:07 call for his followers to engage in reasoned, measured debate with
65:09 reasoned, measured debate with conflicting viewpoints to allow
65:10 conflicting viewpoints to allow themselves to be convinced of things?
65:12 themselves to be convinced of things? Come off it. Marxists believe in ending
65:14 Come off it. Marxists believe in ending the capitalist system just as liberals
65:16 the capitalist system just as liberals believe in ending the feudal system.
65:17 believe in ending the feudal system. Whether that process is violent or not
65:19 Whether that process is violent or not is ultimately up to the ruling class.
65:21 is ultimately up to the ruling class. Patrick, more Patrick Dunks. If you
65:23 Patrick, more Patrick Dunks. If you truly dude, they went crazy on my boy
65:26 truly dude, they went crazy on my boy Patrick. Patrick simply wanted to get
65:28 Patrick. Patrick simply wanted to get aing slam in there and be like, "This a
65:30 aing slam in there and be like, "This a song guy. Charlie Kirk is so much better
65:32 song guy. Charlie Kirk is so much better than him." And the New York Times
65:34 than him." And the New York Times readership is eating his ass alive. If
65:36 readership is eating his ass alive. If you truly believe that Kirk never
65:38 you truly believe that Kirk never flirted with permission for violence,
65:39 flirted with permission for violence, then you are very forgetful. Charlie
65:40 then you are very forgetful. Charlie Kirk was very nonchalant about excusing
65:42 Kirk was very nonchalant about excusing violence. For example, when thugs
65:43 violence. For example, when thugs assaulted store workers and destroyed uh
65:45 assaulted store workers and destroyed uh uh store property during the Pride Month
65:47 uh store property during the Pride Month in 2023, he further encouraged such
65:49 in 2023, he further encouraged such displays of violence by painting them as
65:50 displays of violence by painting them as shows of force. Literally, tonight we
65:52 shows of force. Literally, tonight we show them that they're the losers. Or
65:54 show them that they're the losers. Or when Paul Pelosi was attacked in his own
65:55 when Paul Pelosi was attacked in his own home and Kirk encouraged his fathers to
65:57 home and Kirk encouraged his fathers to bail him out while painting the attacks
65:58 bail him out while painting the attacks as karma against the Democrats. Or when
66:00 as karma against the Democrats. Or when he called the biblical passage that
66:02 he called the biblical passage that calls for the death penalty against
66:03 calls for the death penalty against homosexuals the perfect rule. Charlie
66:05 homosexuals the perfect rule. Charlie Kirk was not the calm reasonable
66:06 Kirk was not the calm reasonable debating type. You desperately pretend
66:08 debating type. You desperately pretend he was. Bro, if you get this dogpiled
66:12 he was. Bro, if you get this dogpiled this hard by a bunch of Barbara's
66:14 this hard by a bunch of Barbara's Deborah's that are New York Times
66:17 Deborah's that are New York Times readers who take the time out to comment
66:19 readers who take the time out to comment on a New York Times article, you got to
66:23 on a New York Times article, you got to unsubscribe from the New York Times. You
66:24 unsubscribe from the New York Times. You You're getting This is like getting
66:26 You're getting This is like getting dunked on in the hub's comment section.
66:29 dunked on in the hub's comment section. Doubted response to [ __ ] using the term
66:30 Doubted response to [ __ ] using the term adventurism. We already covered this
66:32 adventurism. We already covered this today on Interesting Times. Ross pushing
66:33 today on Interesting Times. Ross pushing harder on a streamer from the left than
66:35 harder on a streamer from the left than he does when he interviews people on the
66:36 he does when he interviews people on the right with actual power and incite the
66:38 right with actual power and incite the perpetuate actual violence. Peter Theal
66:40 perpetuate actual violence. Peter Theal and JD Vance. It's so obvious how we
66:42 and JD Vance. It's so obvious how we ended up here as a country and
66:42 ended up here as a country and continually discouraging that our media
66:44 continually discouraging that our media continues to hand us the shovels that we
66:45 continues to hand us the shovels that we use to dig ourselves deeper into a
66:46 use to dig ourselves deeper into a failing state.
66:53 And even people who are like somewhat neutral to me that don't know who the I
66:56 neutral to me that don't know who the I am and are basically like this is their
66:58 am and are basically like this is their first introduction to who I am. They
67:01 first introduction to who I am. They basically say this, he's he's a fringe
67:03 basically say this, he's he's a fringe figure. He can have an audience of
67:05 figure. He can have an audience of hundreds of thousands, but think about
67:07 hundreds of thousands, but think about how tame he is in compared to the
67:08 how tame he is in compared to the American extreme right or even Rush
67:10 American extreme right or even Rush Limbaugh back in the day. Per doesn't
67:12 Limbaugh back in the day. Per doesn't cons doesn't consider conservatives
67:13 cons doesn't consider conservatives unamerican. Doesn't hate them. Doesn't
67:15 unamerican. Doesn't hate them. Doesn't want to use the power of the state to
67:17 want to use the power of the state to literally exterminate them. The reverse
67:18 literally exterminate them. The reverse simply isn't true. Exactly. I want to
67:21 simply isn't true. Exactly. I want to literally exterminate their medical
67:23 literally exterminate their medical debt. Dude, that's what I want for
67:25 debt. Dude, that's what I want for conservatives.
67:26 conservatives. Conservatives want me deported. I want
67:30 Conservatives want me deported. I want conservatives health care costs to be
67:32 conservatives health care costs to be deported. That's the difference between
67:34 deported. That's the difference between me and the average conservative. Now,
67:37 me and the average conservative. Now, they can turn around and act as though
67:39 they can turn around and act as though they're not advocating for violence by
67:40 they're not advocating for violence by simply presenting the Bible. They can be
67:43 simply presenting the Bible. They can be like, "Oh, the Bible told me it's okay
67:44 like, "Oh, the Bible told me it's okay to stone the gays." That's the Bible.
67:46 to stone the gays." That's the Bible. Take it up with the Bible over and over
67:48 Take it up with the Bible over and over again. I don't sit around and go, "Look
67:50 again. I don't sit around and go, "Look at the look at Das Capatel. Dascapatel
67:52 at the look at Das Capatel. Dascapatel told me this." That's not what I'm
67:54 told me this." That's not what I'm doing. That's Bart from Idaho, by the
67:56 doing. That's Bart from Idaho, by the way. Not a Hassanabi head. He is just
67:58 way. Not a Hassanabi head. He is just fine. In case somebody bothers to
68:00 fine. In case somebody bothers to understand what he's talking about, just
68:01 understand what he's talking about, just fine. We are living in a baffling time
68:03 fine. We are living in a baffling time in which a Twitch streamer is held to a
68:04 in which a Twitch streamer is held to a higher standard of the president of the
68:05 higher standard of the president of the United States. I listened very carefully
68:07 United States. I listened very carefully to this whole interview. I couldn't help
68:09 to this whole interview. I couldn't help but notice that every time I was
68:10 but notice that every time I was especially compelled by Piker's response
68:11 especially compelled by Piker's response to something, which is to say, when I
68:13 to something, which is to say, when I thought [ __ ] was about to take down
68:14 thought [ __ ] was about to take down Douedit's assumption, thesis, argument
68:16 Douedit's assumption, thesis, argument in especially powerful and eloquent way,
68:18 in especially powerful and eloquent way, Douet would interrupt and either
68:19 Douet would interrupt and either redirect or focus on a minute point in
68:21 redirect or focus on a minute point in effect derailing the narrative. This is
68:23 effect derailing the narrative. This is a very smart tactic and one that is
68:24 a very smart tactic and one that is difficult to combat. It requires the
68:26 difficult to combat. It requires the interviewe to have 100% presence of mind
68:28 interviewe to have 100% presence of mind and not be knocked off their feet. It's
68:30 and not be knocked off their feet. It's also a cheap tactic, understandable, but
68:32 also a cheap tactic, understandable, but cheap. By grip moments overcame it by
68:34 cheap. By grip moments overcame it by talking over Douat's interruptions, but
68:35 talking over Douat's interruptions, but obviously Delta had the home team
68:37 obviously Delta had the home team advantage. To everyone's credit though,
68:38 advantage. To everyone's credit though, I thought this was a great conversation,
68:40 I thought this was a great conversation, and I would be super supportive of more
68:42 and I would be super supportive of more of this. The two sides need to keep
68:43 of this. The two sides need to keep talking to each other in this way
68:44 talking to each other in this way instead of staying in echo chambers.
68:47 instead of staying in echo chambers. Check this one. Assam [ __ ] has turned
68:50 Check this one. Assam [ __ ] has turned his reckless rhetoric into a full-time
68:51 his reckless rhetoric into a full-time job. He's the guy who once said,
68:52 job. He's the guy who once said, "America deserves 911." Compared Hamas.
68:54 "America deserves 911." Compared Hamas. Okay, this guy is a [ __ ] this has to
68:56 Okay, this guy is a [ __ ] this has to be like a sex pestiny fan, right? I
68:59 be like a sex pestiny fan, right? I don't think the average New York Times
69:00 don't think the average New York Times reader is is that tuned into, you know,
69:04 reader is is that tuned into, you know, this has got to be like a like a Ethan
69:06 this has got to be like a like a Ethan Kleiner or like a Asmin Gold fan or like
69:08 Kleiner or like a Asmin Gold fan or like a sex pad. The the lone check the
69:11 a sex pad. The the lone check the YouTube comments. He pinned the one
69:12 YouTube comments. He pinned the one neutral comment. Everyone else is
69:13 neutral comment. Everyone else is cooking him. Oh, on YouTube he pinned
69:15 cooking him. Oh, on YouTube he pinned it. Love the podcast. Quickly becoming
69:17 it. Love the podcast. Quickly becoming the best show. Ross tries to bait us on
69:19 the best show. Ross tries to bait us on and call for an act of violence. Hassan
69:21 and call for an act of violence. Hassan chuckles. How to grown up in the Middle
69:23 chuckles. How to grown up in the Middle East radicalize you. This guy's a real
69:24 East radicalize you. This guy's a real piece of work. Nice to see a successful
69:26 piece of work. Nice to see a successful journalist sitting down with an
69:27 journalist sitting down with an upandcomer like Ross.
69:30 upandcomer like Ross. This reminds me of why I stopped reading
69:32 This reminds me of why I stopped reading the New York Times in the first place.
69:33 the New York Times in the first place. It's hard to tell if Ross is
69:34 It's hard to tell if Ross is intentionally misrepresenting Kosama
69:35 intentionally misrepresenting Kosama with the explicit intent to deceptively
69:37 with the explicit intent to deceptively warp his audience's perception or his
69:39 warp his audience's perception or his worldview is so distorted that he
69:40 worldview is so distorted that he genuinely thinks what he said is true. I
69:42 genuinely thinks what he said is true. I don't know which is worse. Insane
69:44 don't know which is worse. Insane interview. Ross putting words in Assam's
69:45 interview. Ross putting words in Assam's mouth and basically saying, "I don't
69:46 mouth and basically saying, "I don't believe you when you say you don't
69:47 believe you when you say you don't advocate for violence is embarrassing."
69:49 advocate for violence is embarrassing." Assant people are being murdered by
69:50 Assant people are being murdered by health insurance companies because they
69:51 health insurance companies because they refuse to provide payment for curable
69:53 refuse to provide payment for curable illnesses, diseases, etc. That is
69:55 illnesses, diseases, etc. That is structural violence. Ross, I don't know,
69:56 structural violence. Ross, I don't know, man. I think you're hyping up the
69:58 man. I think you're hyping up the violence. That literally just happened.
70:00 violence. That literally just happened. We we just paused it right there. Like
70:04 We we just paused it right there. Like literally
70:06 literally that is verbatim a summary of the of the
70:10 that is verbatim a summary of the of the last five minutes of me like
70:13 last five minutes of me like thoughtfully trying to describe to him.
70:15 thoughtfully trying to describe to him. Dude hated you before the interview now
70:17 Dude hated you before the interview now hates you even more after reading those
70:18 hates you even more after reading those comments. No, I think like this will
70:20 comments. No, I think like this will this will work well for him because he
70:22 this will work well for him because he got his point across. I think not only
70:25 got his point across. I think not only did he get his point across, but then
70:26 did he get his point across, but then also on top of that he was able to this
70:29 also on top of that he was able to this will this will do good numbers. Like he
70:30 will this will do good numbers. Like he gets good engagement out of this. So I
70:32 gets good engagement out of this. So I don't think these guys care about that
70:33 don't think these guys care about that kind of stuff
70:35 kind of stuff >> though. Like you're Yes, I I agree.
70:37 >> though. Like you're Yes, I I agree. You're doing analysis and sometimes the
70:39 You're doing analysis and sometimes the analysis you're people would have
70:41 analysis you're people would have celebrated Luigi Manion obviously
70:44 celebrated Luigi Manion obviously without you Hassan [ __ ]
70:45 without you Hassan [ __ ] >> talking about him all the time, right?
70:47 >> talking about him all the time, right? But I listen to the way you talk about
70:49 But I listen to the way you talk about him. Like you're fascinated by him too.
70:51 him. Like you're fascinated by him too. you're participating in the fascination
70:53 you're participating in the fascination and you're doing a thing where you're
70:55 and you're doing a thing where you're like, well, you know, I'm not saying
70:58 like, well, you know, I'm not saying violence is good, but you've got to
71:00 violence is good, but you've got to understand that there's other forms of
71:02 understand that there's other forms of violence in society besides this one.
71:04 violence in society besides this one. And people who like Manion,
71:07 And people who like Manion, >> um, they're saying this violence maybe
71:09 >> um, they're saying this violence maybe isn't as bad as that kind of violence.
71:11 isn't as bad as that kind of violence. And this just seems to me like
71:13 And this just seems to me like >> you're not the guy who starts the
71:15 >> you're not the guy who starts the revolution, but you're the violence
71:17 revolution, but you're the violence appreciator. That's that's sort of how
71:20 appreciator. That's that's sort of how how I feel about your manion coverage.
71:22 how I feel about your manion coverage. You're you're out there.
71:24 You're you're out there. It's like, okay, tell me why it's not
71:26 It's like, okay, tell me why it's not fair.
71:26 fair. >> But but the reason why I'm saying I
71:28 >> But but the reason why I'm saying I wouldn't say that that's fair is because
71:29 wouldn't say that that's fair is because like I do make it obviously very clear
71:31 like I do make it obviously very clear that um and I I refer to this over and
71:34 that um and I I refer to this over and over again, adventurism
71:36 over again, adventurism and and people taking matters into their
71:38 and and people taking matters into their own hands is a mere uh reaction to the
71:44 own hands is a mere uh reaction to the social contract unwinding in real time
71:46 social contract unwinding in real time in front of us. I don't think this is a
71:48 in front of us. I don't think this is a good thing. I want to make sure that we
71:50 good thing. I want to make sure that we have a system that helps everyone and
71:54 have a system that helps everyone and and a part of that is creating the same
71:56 and a part of that is creating the same social stability that existed. Now, you
71:58 social stability that existed. Now, you can do that by force uh by stamping out
72:01 can do that by force uh by stamping out disscent and moving in the direction of
72:03 disscent and moving in the direction of the Trump administration or you can try
72:05 the Trump administration or you can try and do that by by uh addressing some of
72:09 and do that by by uh addressing some of these inequities that exist that do
72:12 these inequities that exist that do actually harm a lot of people. Right?
72:14 actually harm a lot of people. Right? because I don't think you disagree with
72:15 because I don't think you disagree with my assessment that systems are
72:17 my assessment that systems are inherently violent no matter which way
72:20 inherently violent no matter which way they go and that uh but and I assume you
72:24 they go and that uh but and I assume you understand what I mean when I say like
72:25 understand what I mean when I say like the social murder of tens of thousands
72:28 the social murder of tens of thousands of Americans in the process of of having
72:30 of Americans in the process of of having their their healthcare coverage denied.
72:32 their their healthcare coverage denied. Like it must interest you as well,
72:34 Like it must interest you as well, right? because it interests uh certainly
72:36 right? because it interests uh certainly people at CNN and many other uh
72:39 people at CNN and many other uh mainstream outlets like why people are
72:41 mainstream outlets like why people are doing this but their reflection on it is
72:43 doing this but their reflection on it is >> I I think it I think it is I think it's
72:46 >> I I think it I think it is I think it's 100% the case
72:48 100% the case >> that people had certain people
72:50 >> that people had certain people >> you want to know why this was a lost
72:52 >> you want to know why this was a lost cause for Ross
72:56 cause for Ross because I feel like even Elizabeth
72:58 because I feel like even Elizabeth Warren went on television after and
73:01 Warren went on television after and everyone was like you know everyone was
73:03 everyone was like you know everyone was like why are people celebrating ating
73:04 like why are people celebrating ating Luigi Manion. We can't understand it.
73:06 Luigi Manion. We can't understand it. And even Elizabeth Warren was like, why
73:08 And even Elizabeth Warren was like, why do you think
73:10 do you think like look at the health care system?
73:13 like look at the health care system? Like what do you think is going on in
73:16 Like what do you think is going on in the American health care system when
73:18 the American health care system when people have their their care coverage
73:22 people have their their care coverage denied? Like that's it's over at that
73:24 denied? Like that's it's over at that point. Like what do you expect? That's
73:26 point. Like what do you expect? That's Elizabeth Warren. Elizabeth Warren is
73:28 Elizabeth Warren. Elizabeth Warren is never going to say some [ __ ] like that.
73:30 never going to say some [ __ ] like that. but had terrible experiences with the
73:33 but had terrible experiences with the health insurance bureaucracy.
73:35 health insurance bureaucracy. Um,
73:36 Um, >> also apparently Ros Douad defended
73:39 >> also apparently Ros Douad defended Pinocha in his Harvard days
73:42 Pinocha in his Harvard days and I did not know that but I mean that
73:45 and I did not know that but I mean that does track. I wonder if I did I bring up
73:48 does track. I wonder if I did I bring up Pinoce at all in this conversation
73:51 Pinoce at all in this conversation because it did go into numerous
73:52 because it did go into numerous directions at times
73:54 directions at times >> you know had a re reaction to
73:56 >> you know had a re reaction to >> I didn't know that he defended Pinoch
73:58 >> I didn't know that he defended Pinoch but it does make sense that is like what
74:01 but it does make sense that is like what you described I think that's absolutely
74:03 you described I think that's absolutely real and it says something about the way
74:05 real and it says something about the way the system works in America on the other
74:08 the system works in America on the other hand I also think and again because I'm
74:10 hand I also think and again because I'm not a socialist utopian right I think
74:12 not a socialist utopian right I think that I think that there is not this
74:14 that I think that there is not this magical alternative
74:16 magical alternative where you know if we only have nasty
74:19 where you know if we only have nasty politicians who love the rich imposing
74:21 politicians who love the rich imposing austerity everyone would get all the
74:22 austerity everyone would get all the care that they want. I don't think that
74:24 care that they want. I don't think that world exists. You know I have a lot of
74:26 world exists. You know I have a lot of personally negative experiences with the
74:28 personally negative experiences with the American healthcare system. Um I had
74:31 American healthcare system. Um I had technically still have chronic Lyme
74:33 technically still have chronic Lyme disease which is a disease that
74:35 disease which is a disease that officially doesn't exist. um it
74:38 officially doesn't exist. um it definitely exists and I have known a lot
74:41 definitely exists and I have known a lot of people in that world who have a very
74:43 of people in that world who have a very specific version of the kind of anger
74:46 specific version of the kind of anger you're describing that's directed
74:47 you're describing that's directed towards the medical establishment and
74:50 towards the medical establishment and how it interacts with insurance
74:51 how it interacts with insurance companies and you know these are people
74:53 companies and you know these are people who've had their lives
74:55 who've had their lives >> ruined by this illness that the system
74:57 >> ruined by this illness that the system does not effectively cover
74:59 does not effectively cover >> or treat. Um but it's really important
75:03 >> or treat. Um but it's really important right as a society
75:06 right as a society that if one of my friends who had
75:09 that if one of my friends who had chronic Lyme disease went out and killed
75:12 chronic Lyme disease went out and killed someone who they felt was involved in
75:14 someone who they felt was involved in denying them treatment and maybe was
75:17 denying them treatment and maybe was >> right that you wouldn't do that it would
75:20 >> right that you wouldn't do that it would be irresponsible for me to do a podcast
75:23 be irresponsible for me to do a podcast and be like man that person looks
75:26 and be like man that person looks badass. I think that would be
75:27 badass. I think that would be irresponsible even if I was appreciating
75:30 irresponsible even if I was appreciating something real. And that's that's where
75:31 something real. And that's that's where I think you're it's not you saying it's
75:35 I think you're it's not you saying it's really interesting how people have this
75:37 really interesting how people have this reaction to it is is what I'm
75:40 reaction to it is is what I'm challenging or questioning. It's the
75:42 challenging or questioning. It's the extent to which again you're like oh
75:45 extent to which again you're like oh he's an adventurer. It's the propaganda
75:46 he's an adventurer. It's the propaganda of the deed.
75:47 of the deed. >> He's not an adventurer. He's an
75:49 >> He's not an adventurer. He's an adventurist.
75:50 adventurist. I think he understands what that means
75:52 I think he understands what that means by the way cuz he says propaganda of the
75:54 by the way cuz he says propaganda of the deed. So he gets it. Of course,
75:56 deed. So he gets it. Of course, propaganda of the deed would be a more
75:58 propaganda of the deed would be a more positive association with that sort of
75:59 positive association with that sort of thing. Whereas adventurism is the
76:02 thing. Whereas adventurism is the Marxist interpretation, which is a
76:04 Marxist interpretation, which is a negative association with that sort of
76:05 negative association with that sort of thing. So obviously as a Harvard
76:08 thing. So obviously as a Harvard educated guy, I think he knows I I think
76:10 educated guy, I think he knows I I think he understands that,
76:12 he understands that, >> man. Well, okay. Yeah. But a society
76:15 >> man. Well, okay. Yeah. But a society that has those adventurers is going to
76:17 that has those adventurers is going to be in a lot of trouble pretty quick.
76:19 be in a lot of trouble pretty quick. >> I agree. I I don't disagree with you on
76:22 >> I agree. I I don't disagree with you on this. I think it's a it's a reflection
76:24 this. I think it's a it's a reflection of the the very social fabric that keeps
76:27 of the the very social fabric that keeps us together and keeps us stable unwind.
76:30 us together and keeps us stable unwind. According to Ross, the proper course of
76:31 According to Ross, the proper course of action to respond to Luigi Manion is to
76:32 action to respond to Luigi Manion is to keep watching it happen and do
76:33 keep watching it happen and do absolutely nothing other than look at
76:35 absolutely nothing other than look at each instance of violence and go that's
76:37 each instance of violence and go that's bad. That's bad. That's bad. That's bad
76:39 bad. That's bad. That's bad. That's bad in perpetuity. You on the other hand can
76:41 in perpetuity. You on the other hand can go maybe we can put an end to it
76:42 go maybe we can put an end to it perhaps. Yeah. I mean it's the same with
76:45 perhaps. Yeah. I mean it's the same with like gun violence. It's the same with
76:48 like gun violence. It's the same with gun violence. I felt I I feel like I
76:50 gun violence. I felt I I feel like I lost my mind a long time ago try
76:52 lost my mind a long time ago try constantly trying to to to make sense of
76:56 constantly trying to to to make sense of the senseless violence that exists in
76:58 the senseless violence that exists in America where I was just like what are
77:00 America where I was just like what are we doing like this is insane please some
77:03 we doing like this is insane please some sensible legislation please can we have
77:06 sensible legislation please can we have some sensible legislation please nope it
77:08 some sensible legislation please nope it doesn't make any sense in real time
77:11 doesn't make any sense in real time America is a very vi violent country
77:14 America is a very vi violent country right but we have systematized this
77:16 right but we have systematized this violence and we have normalized
77:19 violence and we have normalized And inevitably that violence has also
77:22 And inevitably that violence has also come back to the domestic front where
77:25 come back to the domestic front where there's uh unlimited bloodshed happening
77:28 there's uh unlimited bloodshed happening at schools. I mean Charlie Kirk's
77:30 at schools. I mean Charlie Kirk's assassination was the 46th uh school
77:32 assassination was the 46th uh school shooting technically a shooting that
77:34 shooting technically a shooting that happened at a school and then the 47th
77:36 happened at a school and then the 47th happened uh only only an hour later in
77:39 happened uh only only an hour later in Colorado. And our our reflection on
77:43 Colorado. And our our reflection on these sorts of events is that because
77:45 these sorts of events is that because it's so normalized because the system
77:47 it's so normalized because the system must continue because there are numerous
77:49 must continue because there are numerous different interests at play here
77:50 different interests at play here specifically gun manufacturers for
77:52 specifically gun manufacturers for example a very important part of uh our
77:55 example a very important part of uh our our you know domestic manufacturing
77:57 our you know domestic manufacturing industry we
77:58 industry we >> and America is an a big part of American
78:01 >> and America is an a big part of American culture
78:01 culture >> and America is an extremely
78:04 >> and America is an extremely >> libertarian personal liberties devoted
78:07 >> libertarian personal liberties devoted society in ways that have right-wing
78:09 society in ways that have right-wing connotations like lots of gun ownership
78:11 connotations like lots of gun ownership and
78:12 and >> leftwing connotations too. But but yes,
78:14 >> leftwing connotations too. But but yes, go on.
78:15 go on. >> Certainly. And and what I'm trying to
78:17 >> Certainly. And and what I'm trying to say is that uh in the absence of any
78:19 say is that uh in the absence of any sort of of significant initiative to
78:21 sort of of significant initiative to claw back some of that to to have uh
78:24 claw back some of that to to have uh some kind of, you know, reasonable
78:27 some kind of, you know, reasonable policy that will say, "All right, guys,
78:30 policy that will say, "All right, guys, like we all like guns. I like guns. I
78:32 like we all like guns. I like guns. I like shooting guns, right? I do not have
78:35 like shooting guns, right? I do not have any sort of gun culture in my in my
78:36 any sort of gun culture in my in my development. I you began my journey of
78:39 development. I you began my journey of understanding guns because I was writing
78:41 understanding guns because I was writing about gun control and I was like I need
78:42 about gun control and I was like I need to learn about this stuff. But having
78:44 to learn about this stuff. But having said that, I still believe that there
78:46 said that, I still believe that there needs to be reasonable gun safety,
78:48 needs to be reasonable gun safety, reasonable gun control. This is not a a
78:52 reasonable gun control. This is not a a call to action to say like, oh, it's
78:54 call to action to say like, oh, it's awesome that like school shootings are
78:56 awesome that like school shootings are happening or it's awesome that political
78:57 happening or it's awesome that political assassinations are taking place left and
78:59 assassinations are taking place left and right.
78:59 right. >> No, but this is this is the difference
79:01 >> No, but this is this is the difference and I say that it's no longer just like
79:04 and I say that it's no longer just like random school children that are being
79:05 random school children that are being killed is what I mean. The only reason
79:07 killed is what I mean. The only reason why this is becoming a a more
79:10 why this is becoming a a more significant, more consequential problem
79:11 significant, more consequential problem in the eyes of many people in the media
79:13 in the eyes of many people in the media is because it's no longer uh people that
79:16 is because it's no longer uh people that we can just kind of see as collateral
79:18 we can just kind of see as collateral damage and like consider to be
79:20 damage and like consider to be invisible.
79:21 invisible. >> I don't I don't think that's right.
79:22 >> I don't I don't think that's right. First of all, I think that the media has
79:25 First of all, I think that the media has >> now we start to debate a little bit
79:27 >> now we start to debate a little bit >> a lot of coverage to school shootings. I
79:29 >> a lot of coverage to school shootings. I think it would be strange to say that
79:30 think it would be strange to say that the media has ignored that issue in any
79:32 the media has ignored that issue in any way, shape, or form. I think the lie,
79:35 way, shape, or form. I think the lie, but I but I think the lie you're like
79:36 but I but I think the lie you're like the reason people are upset in this
79:37 the reason people are upset in this case, the reason that people are upset
79:39 case, the reason that people are upset in this particular case, right, is that
79:42 in this particular case, right, is that when school shootings happen,
79:44 when school shootings happen, >> right, there is except in very online
79:47 >> right, there is except in very online communities, there is not valorization
79:50 communities, there is not valorization of the school shooters. Nobody calls a
79:52 of the school shooters. Nobody calls a school shooter an adventurer,
79:54 school shooter an adventurer, >> right? and the people people obviously
79:58 >> right? and the people people obviously we don't want to live in a world with
80:00 we don't want to live in a world with school shootings but we especially don't
80:02 school shootings but we especially don't want to live in a world where it seems
80:04 want to live in a world where it seems like people who are sort of in the
80:06 like people who are sort of in the public scrum like you right
80:10 public scrum like you right >> are are sort of appreciating violence
80:13 >> are are sort of appreciating violence like if I you know I'm pro-life I think
80:15 like if I you know I'm pro-life I think abortion abortion is a form of murder um
80:19 abortion abortion is a form of murder um I think if you know if somebody killed
80:22 I think if you know if somebody killed an abortionist
80:24 an abortionist And I went in the New York Times the
80:27 And I went in the New York Times the next day and tried to write something
80:30 next day and tried to write something that was in the vein of what you said
80:32 that was in the vein of what you said about Maniona. And I
80:33 about Maniona. And I >> Yeah. The difference is abortion is not
80:35 >> Yeah. The difference is abortion is not murder. Okay. That's the difference. And
80:38 murder. Okay. That's the difference. And he knows it's not murder.
80:41 he knows it's not murder. Whereas someone who is dying from a a
80:45 Whereas someone who is dying from a a disease that they could prevent, but
80:47 disease that they could prevent, but because it's paywalled, that is seen as
80:49 because it's paywalled, that is seen as actual murder. Having said that, there
80:52 actual murder. Having said that, there are plenty of right-wing commentators
80:54 are plenty of right-wing commentators who have unironically advocated to
80:56 who have unironically advocated to directly murder doctors. The most famous
80:59 directly murder doctors. The most famous example of this, of course, is Billing
81:01 example of this, of course, is Billing O'Reilly, which I did bring up. I don't
81:04 O'Reilly, which I did bring up. I don't know if they actually br is in the in
81:05 know if they actually br is in the in the cut here. I said Bill O'Reilly quite
81:08 the cut here. I said Bill O'Reilly quite literally did that with a doctor, Dr.
81:11 literally did that with a doctor, Dr. Tiller. He called him Tiller Tiller the
81:13 Tiller. He called him Tiller Tiller the baby killer. And then one of his fans
81:15 baby killer. And then one of his fans went to his uh went to the church that
81:17 went to his uh went to the church that he was at and shot and killed him. I
81:20 he was at and shot and killed him. I concede writing and talking are
81:21 concede writing and talking are different, right? But if I done that, it
81:23 different, right? But if I done that, it wouldn't be published and I might be
81:24 wouldn't be published and I might be fired. Not as a violation of my free
81:26 fired. Not as a violation of my free speech rights, but because I would be
81:28 speech rights, but because I would be crossing a line of again, not
81:32 crossing a line of again, not endorsement, but even just appreciation,
81:35 endorsement, but even just appreciation, like the appreciation of the violent
81:37 like the appreciation of the violent act. I think there's a taboo around that
81:39 act. I think there's a taboo around that for a reason. And you like pushing at
81:41 for a reason. And you like pushing at that taboo. I just think that's what you
81:43 that taboo. I just think that's what you like to do. I don't I don't it's not
81:45 like to do. I don't I don't it's not something that I like to do necessarily,
81:48 something that I like to do necessarily, but I want to examine the contradictions
81:51 but I want to examine the contradictions of even what you just said, right?
81:53 of even what you just said, right? >> Um you say abortion is murder. I
81:56 >> Um you say abortion is murder. I obviously don't agree with that. I'm I'm
81:59 obviously don't agree with that. I'm I'm uh I'm pro-choice. Um I think it's it's
82:03 uh I'm pro-choice. Um I think it's it's a matter of of bodily autonomy and the
82:05 a matter of of bodily autonomy and the government shouldn't interfere in this
82:07 government shouldn't interfere in this between a medical professional and a and
82:08 between a medical professional and a and a woman. Um, having said that,
82:13 a woman. Um, having said that, you get to argue about women's bodily
82:17 you get to argue about women's bodily autonomy
82:19 autonomy being potentially removed by making the
82:24 being potentially removed by making the argument through the systematized
82:26 argument through the systematized version of violence. Because I think, as
82:28 version of violence. Because I think, as you would probably also recognize,
82:30 you would probably also recognize, abortion restrictions have come down in
82:32 abortion restrictions have come down in numerous states since the decision of
82:34 numerous states since the decision of Roie Wade was overturned. And in the
82:36 Roie Wade was overturned. And in the process, women have found themselves in
82:38 process, women have found themselves in this unique predicament where they can't
82:41 this unique predicament where they can't even get their ectopic pregnancies dealt
82:43 even get their ectopic pregnancies dealt with uh because their medical
82:45 with uh because their medical professionals are worried about
82:47 professionals are worried about potential prosecution. This has led to a
82:49 potential prosecution. This has led to a lot of pain and a lot of torment and
82:52 lot of pain and a lot of torment and maybe even in some instances death. When
82:55 maybe even in some instances death. When you argue on behalf of the pro-life
82:58 you argue on behalf of the pro-life position, you can you don't have to say
83:01 position, you can you don't have to say like uh Bill O'Reilly did uh tiller
83:04 like uh Bill O'Reilly did uh tiller tiller the baby killer and then someone
83:07 tiller the baby killer and then someone goes out and actually shoots a doctor.
83:09 goes out and actually shoots a doctor. You can simply say
83:12 You can simply say this is this. I'm not putting words in
83:15 this is this. I'm not putting words in your mouth. I don't know what your
83:16 your mouth. I don't know what your position is on on or your advocacy
83:18 position is on on or your advocacy around abortion, but someone of this
83:20 around abortion, but someone of this mindset can easily just advocate for the
83:25 mindset can easily just advocate for the harm that is done to millions of
83:28 harm that is done to millions of Americans potentially
83:31 Americans potentially without uttering a single word that
83:34 without uttering a single word that could be considered remotely violent by
83:37 could be considered remotely violent by most by the broadest subsets of American
83:39 most by the broadest subsets of American society.
83:40 society. >> Right. So, you're right. You know, I
83:50 That is the reason why I wanted to have this conversation.
83:52 this conversation. The asymmetry that exists with the ways
83:56 The asymmetry that exists with the ways in which the right get to dominate the
84:00 in which the right get to dominate the narrative dominate violent rhetoric and
84:04 narrative dominate violent rhetoric and say violent with regular frequency.
84:07 say violent with regular frequency. Charlie Kirk was a great example of
84:09 Charlie Kirk was a great example of this.
84:10 this. I even brought up Ben Shapiro earlier on
84:13 I even brought up Ben Shapiro earlier on in the conversation. They did cut that
84:14 in the conversation. They did cut that part out, I'm pretty sure, because I
84:16 part out, I'm pretty sure, because I said, "This is how Ben Shapiro gets away
84:18 said, "This is how Ben Shapiro gets away with being violent." He never says, "Go
84:20 with being violent." He never says, "Go out and kill black people." He says, "In
84:22 out and kill black people." He says, "In a system where there is disproportionate
84:24 a system where there is disproportionate targeting of black people in the hands
84:26 targeting of black people in the hands of the police, where the state has a
84:27 of the police, where the state has a monopoly on violence." He says, "I want
84:30 monopoly on violence." He says, "I want more targeting. I want more police
84:32 more targeting. I want more police targeting in black communities because
84:34 targeting in black communities because they're poor and because they're violent
84:37 they're poor and because they're violent communities that need to be targeted."
84:39 communities that need to be targeted." He doesn't have to say that these are
84:41 He doesn't have to say that these are violent thugs, even though he does from
84:43 violent thugs, even though he does from time to time. Or he doesn't have to
84:45 time to time. Or he doesn't have to directly do a call to action in the same
84:48 directly do a call to action in the same vein that like a clansman does. He can
84:50 vein that like a clansman does. He can just lean on the pre-existing violent
84:52 just lean on the pre-existing violent constructs. That's what I said about Ben
84:54 constructs. That's what I said about Ben Shapiro in this uh in this conversation.
84:56 Shapiro in this uh in this conversation. I don't know if they kept it cuz that
84:57 I don't know if they kept it cuz that was the main point that I was trying to
85:00 was the main point that I was trying to put forward.
85:02 put forward. That is my main proposition. My argument
85:06 That is my main proposition. My argument is right-wingers of course can sit
85:09 is right-wingers of course can sit around and say I abhore political
85:11 around and say I abhore political violence while they demand a metric ton
85:14 violence while they demand a metric ton of it. And when people respond to that
85:16 of it. And when people respond to that now and say that's fascist because that
85:18 now and say that's fascist because that is the most like understandable like
85:21 is the most like understandable like most understood form of uh serialized
85:25 most understood form of uh serialized systematized violence is fascism. It's
85:28 systematized violence is fascism. It's the type of violent systems that we here
85:30 the type of violent systems that we here in America luckily right now we're still
85:33 in America luckily right now we're still anti-fascist somewhat. look at and say
85:36 anti-fascist somewhat. look at and say that's violent. Okay, we look at that
85:38 that's violent. Okay, we look at that and we say that's violent. That's
85:39 and we say that's violent. That's fascist. And Republicans now want to
85:43 fascist. And Republicans now want to make it illegal to even say that. And
85:45 make it illegal to even say that. And when Ross Dow comes after people like
85:47 when Ross Dow comes after people like myself, he's actually leaning into that
85:49 myself, he's actually leaning into that censorship agenda as well. The uneven
85:52 censorship agenda as well. The uneven dynamic is what I'm trying to
85:53 dynamic is what I'm trying to >> I understand your argument but your
85:55 >> I understand your argument but your strategy your argument is that
85:57 strategy your argument is that effectively
85:58 effectively >> advocacy for policies that cause harm
86:03 >> advocacy for policies that cause harm economic harm or physical harm
86:06 economic harm or physical harm >> could itself in this case right but we
86:08 >> could itself in this case right but we were talking about economic harm earlier
86:10 were talking about economic harm earlier so both both
86:11 so both both >> economic harm also leads to physical
86:13 >> economic harm also leads to physical harm as well but
86:14 harm as well but >> that that constitutes a form of could be
86:18 >> that that constitutes a form of could be argued to constitute a form of
86:19 argued to constitute a form of incitement
86:21 incitement Right.
86:22 Right. >> Yes. That's precisely what I'm saying.
86:23 >> Yes. That's precisely what I'm saying. Right.
86:24 Right. >> Yeah. And and that's actually the
86:26 >> Yeah. And and that's actually the argument with like policing,
86:28 argument with like policing, >> right? But
86:28 >> right? But >> policing is a necessary institution.
86:31 >> policing is a necessary institution. People can just point to it and demand
86:32 People can just point to it and demand more of it, but that in that demand,
86:35 more of it, but that in that demand, they're technically demanding more of
86:38 they're technically demanding more of the the unreasonable outcomes and
86:40 the the unreasonable outcomes and unjustifiable outcomes of policing that
86:42 unjustifiable outcomes of policing that lead to, for example, the death of
86:44 lead to, for example, the death of George Floyd. Right. Right. Or numerous
86:46 George Floyd. Right. Right. Or numerous other cases. But this analogy is itself
86:49 other cases. But this analogy is itself part of why people think you are
86:54 part of why people think you are normalizing
86:56 normalizing the things that are taboo which would be
86:58 the things that are taboo which would be which again would include right-wing
87:00 which again would include right-wing forms of violence. But if you say if
87:02 forms of violence. But if you say if your theory is all of these things are
87:05 your theory is all of these things are incitement if you support
87:07 incitement if you support >> He's about to say you're a hypocrite but
87:09 >> He's about to say you're a hypocrite but he doesn't understand you have your own
87:10 he doesn't understand you have your own moral compass. Yeah. I mean I think he's
87:12 moral compass. Yeah. I mean I think he's like gearing up to be like well that's
87:14 like gearing up to be like well that's what you do. like you're saying that uh
87:16 what you do. like you're saying that uh you know right-wingers are doing this
87:18 you know right-wingers are doing this that's what you do and I'm saying yeah
87:20 that's what you do and I'm saying yeah my job is to describe that that is wrong
87:23 my job is to describe that that is wrong that's what I'm doing that's why I think
87:25 that's what I'm doing that's why I think it was important that I laid out
87:27 it was important that I laid out initially that like politics is about
87:29 initially that like politics is about the distribution of resources and power
87:32 the distribution of resources and power and one of the key components of the
87:34 and one of the key components of the distribution of power is a distribution
87:36 distribution of power is a distribution of violence like who gets to do it who
87:37 of violence like who gets to do it who gets to be on the receiving end of
87:39 gets to be on the receiving end of violence so like in that sense it is a
87:44 violence so like in that sense it is a constant
87:44 constant Yeah, right-wingers do that for police
87:47 Yeah, right-wingers do that for police brutality. I say it is unacceptable.
87:50 brutality. I say it is unacceptable. Those systems of violence are
87:51 Those systems of violence are unacceptable. And one of the undesirable
87:54 unacceptable. And one of the undesirable yet inevitable outcomes of such a
87:56 yet inevitable outcomes of such a violent structure is going to be violent
87:59 violent structure is going to be violent resistance. Sometimes that violent
88:01 resistance. Sometimes that violent resistance is going to be just.
88:02 resistance is going to be just. Sometimes that violent resistance is
88:04 Sometimes that violent resistance is going to be unjust. But the very fact
88:06 going to be unjust. But the very fact that it's not always just in terms of
88:08 that it's not always just in terms of retaliatory violence is the reason why
88:11 retaliatory violence is the reason why we must solve these issues at the
88:14 we must solve these issues at the legislative level. That's it. Or at
88:16 legislative level. That's it. Or at least deal with it in a more organized
88:19 least deal with it in a more organized fashion, in a more directional fashion.
88:22 fashion, in a more directional fashion. That's my argument.
88:23 That's my argument. >> Putting more people in jail, that's
88:25 >> Putting more people in jail, that's incitement. If you support uh you know
88:28 incitement. If you support uh you know uh border security, that's incitement.
88:30 uh border security, that's incitement. It's incitement all the way down. Like
88:33 It's incitement all the way down. Like you're you're basically saying the
88:35 you're you're basically saying the person who incites violence against a
88:38 person who incites violence against a politician is in the same position as
88:39 politician is in the same position as the person who supports border border
88:41 the person who supports border border security. And that seems like an
88:43 security. And that seems like an argument that lends itself to
88:46 argument that lends itself to encouraging people to commit political
88:48 encouraging people to commit political violence because you're saying, "Oh,
88:49 violence because you're saying, "Oh, it's all normal already. What's a little
88:51 it's all normal already. What's a little more? What's one more act of incitement
88:53 more? What's one more act of incitement in a world of incitement?" You're just
88:55 in a world of incitement?" You're just normalizing it when you make that
88:56 normalizing it when you make that argument.
88:58 argument. >> Yeah. My argument is that I'm not
89:00 >> Yeah. My argument is that I'm not normalizing it. It's already normal. I
89:03 normalizing it. It's already normal. I don't want it to be normal. I want it to
89:05 don't want it to be normal. I want it to be abnormal. I want people to to
89:08 be abnormal. I want people to to actually take a serious look at the
89:10 actually take a serious look at the violent structures that already exist
89:12 violent structures that already exist that from the point of the recipient is
89:15 that from the point of the recipient is already experienced as like a direct
89:17 already experienced as like a direct form of violence. But do but do you
89:19 form of violence. But do but do you understand the broader point that I
89:20 understand the broader point that I tried to arrive at in these
89:22 tried to arrive at in these conversations for the record which of
89:23 conversations for the record which of course lend themselves so perfectly to
89:27 course lend themselves so perfectly to uh quippy clips to just make it seem as
89:29 uh quippy clips to just make it seem as though you know this is a this is a
89:31 though you know this is a this is a person that is uh uh very clearly
89:34 person that is uh uh very clearly inciting a certain thing or do you think
89:36 inciting a certain thing or do you think I'm just like do you think I'm just like
89:38 I'm just like do you think I'm just like uh dancing around the issue? You can be
89:39 uh dancing around the issue? You can be honest.
89:40 honest. >> I think I think that there's a I'll be
89:42 >> I think I think that there's a I'll be honest. I think there's a reason that um
89:45 honest. I think there's a reason that um certain kinds of Marxism and socialist
89:48 certain kinds of Marxism and socialist radicalism when they
89:50 radicalism when they >> you ain't challenging me. Come on live.
89:52 >> you ain't challenging me. Come on live. It will be what the [ __ ]
89:56 It will be what the [ __ ] are you trying to go meat for meat?
89:57 are you trying to go meat for meat? What's this? Are you trying to go sword
90:00 What's this? Are you trying to go sword fighting with our penises?
90:02 fighting with our penises? Take power or trying to come to power
90:05 Take power or trying to come to power tend to resort to violence. And it is
90:08 tend to resort to violence. And it is inherent in the argument that you've
90:10 inherent in the argument that you've made. I'm not saying it's an an argument
90:13 made. I'm not saying it's an an argument that doesn't have a certain power. If it
90:14 that doesn't have a certain power. If it didn't have a certain power, lots of
90:16 didn't have a certain power, lots of people wouldn't have believed in it.
90:17 people wouldn't have believed in it. Right? There is an inherent violence in
90:20 Right? There is an inherent violence in the use of state power. There is an
90:22 the use of state power. There is an inherent coercion in all kinds of
90:24 inherent coercion in all kinds of policies, including policies that I
90:26 policies, including policies that I support,
90:27 support, >> right? You know, I support I support
90:29 >> right? You know, I support I support restrictions on drugs, right? That I'm
90:32 restrictions on drugs, right? That I'm probably you do not that absolutely
90:34 probably you do not that absolutely involve coercion. I believe in
90:35 involve coercion. I believe in restrictions on bodily autonomy enforced
90:39 restrictions on bodily autonomy enforced by state power that uses violence. I
90:42 by state power that uses violence. I believe in that.
90:43 believe in that. >> Yeah,
90:43 >> Yeah, >> I understand that someone can say as,
90:46 >> I understand that someone can say as, you know, a as as a radical on the left,
90:50 you know, a as as a radical on the left, this violence exists and we want to
90:52 this violence exists and we want to redirect the violence. And do I think
90:54 redirect the violence. And do I think that you, Hassan [ __ ] you know,
90:57 that you, Hassan [ __ ] you know, prosperous, prosperous media personality
90:59 prosperous, prosperous media personality in Los Angeles, are enthusiastic about,
91:03 in Los Angeles, are enthusiastic about, you know, the expropriation of wealth
91:05 you know, the expropriation of wealth and punitive violence by communist death
91:09 and punitive violence by communist death squads? I don't think you are. Um but I
91:12 squads? I don't think you are. Um but I but I but I think that the reason I
91:14 but I but I think that the reason I think that the reason you have strong
91:17 think that the reason you have strong taboss against sort of you know about
91:22 taboss against sort of you know about >> I will say what I'm saying
91:23 >> I will say what I'm saying >> is to prevent is to prevent that that
91:25 >> is to prevent is to prevent that that slope that slope from
91:28 slope that slope from >> from slipping in that way. Um,
91:29 >> from slipping in that way. Um, >> okay. So, I am enthusiastic about the
91:31 >> okay. So, I am enthusiastic about the expropriation of wealth for people such
91:34 expropriation of wealth for people such as myself as well in the form of
91:37 as myself as well in the form of taxation though. And that's basically
91:39 taxation though. And that's basically the grand design that I have. Right now
91:42 the grand design that I have. Right now though, no one's going to deplatform
91:44 though, no one's going to deplatform you, right? You know, Twi Twitch is not
91:46 you, right? You know, Twi Twitch is not going to suspend you for saying that you
91:49 going to suspend you for saying that you want to raise taxes on the rich and use
91:52 want to raise taxes on the rich and use >> the the force of the state to take. But
91:54 >> the the force of the state to take. But what do you think like do you think it
91:56 what do you think like do you think it do you think it was reasonable for
91:58 do you think it was reasonable for Twitch to suspend you for a day for
92:01 Twitch to suspend you for a day for talking about killing Rick Scott? Like
92:02 talking about killing Rick Scott? Like what are what are the obligations I
92:04 what are what are the obligations I guess is I'm asking of what's so crazy
92:06 guess is I'm asking of what's so crazy about this also is like he plays fast
92:09 about this also is like he plays fast and loose with the killing of Rick Scott
92:10 and loose with the killing of Rick Scott thing because he also like early on
92:13 thing because he also like early on recognizes that it's not a death threat,
92:15 recognizes that it's not a death threat, right? Like he very quickly starts
92:16 right? Like he very quickly starts conversation by being like it's not a
92:18 conversation by being like it's not a death threat. We both know it. And then
92:21 death threat. We both know it. And then he just still kind of brings that back
92:23 he just still kind of brings that back in a way in this way where it's like
92:25 in a way in this way where it's like what am I supposed to do like literally
92:27 what am I supposed to do like literally talk about that endlessly? I can't I
92:29 talk about that endlessly? I can't I have to move on
92:30 have to move on >> of platforms with this stuff.
92:34 >> of platforms with this stuff. >> Yeah. No, I think I think it's
92:35 >> Yeah. No, I think I think it's understandable that uh Twitch did that
92:38 understandable that uh Twitch did that which is why I apologize for the the use
92:40 which is why I apologize for the the use of my language as well. Like I said,
92:42 of my language as well. Like I said, there are certainly instances where uh
92:44 there are certainly instances where uh it's an emotionally charged conversation
92:46 it's an emotionally charged conversation or I'm being careless and it comes
92:49 or I'm being careless and it comes across
92:50 across uh it it it it reaches an unintended
92:54 uh it it it it reaches an unintended audience that that sees it as uh in this
92:57 audience that that sees it as uh in this like super short format in a very
92:59 like super short format in a very negative way. Um it's unfortunately a
93:01 negative way. Um it's unfortunately a byproduct of the the medium that I'm in
93:04 byproduct of the the medium that I'm in real time discourse happening with
93:05 real time discourse happening with random anonymous accounts.
93:07 random anonymous accounts. >> But you're okay with some kind of some
93:09 >> But you're okay with some kind of some kind of taboo maintenance here. Oh, for
93:11 kind of taboo maintenance here. Oh, for sure.
93:12 sure. >> Yeah.
93:12 >> Yeah. >> In order for for normal discourse to
93:15 >> In order for for normal discourse to flourish, obviously, uh some kind of
93:18 flourish, obviously, uh some kind of terms of service need to be implemented.
93:21 terms of service need to be implemented. You know, like a direct call to violence
93:22 You know, like a direct call to violence is of course going to be considered
93:24 is of course going to be considered unacceptable. I totally understand that.
93:26 unacceptable. I totally understand that. Even if it's a even if it's like being
93:28 Even if it's a even if it's like being made in or even if it's like being
93:30 made in or even if it's like being misunderstood in that moment without the
93:32 misunderstood in that moment without the without the appropriate context. Yeah.
93:34 without the appropriate context. Yeah. Having said that, however, if we're
93:36 Having said that, however, if we're talking about like broader things, um
93:38 talking about like broader things, um like uh and and we didn't really get to
93:40 like uh and and we didn't really get to talk about this a lot, but um a
93:44 talk about this a lot, but um a deplatforming initiative has taken place
93:46 deplatforming initiative has taken place on Twitch and on numerous other
93:48 on Twitch and on numerous other platforms uh mostly championed by the
93:50 platforms uh mostly championed by the ADL and some other actors as well uh
93:53 ADL and some other actors as well uh because of my anti-Zionist advocacy. I
93:57 because of my anti-Zionist advocacy. I am an avowed anti-ionist. I openly say
93:59 am an avowed anti-ionist. I openly say it. I have also spent all of my
94:02 it. I have also spent all of my professional career uh combating
94:04 professional career uh combating anti-semitism which has grown in this
94:06 anti-semitism which has grown in this country as well and and yet uh a lot of
94:10 country as well and and yet uh a lot of these organizations I think and a lot of
94:12 these organizations I think and a lot of people have falsely maligned and smeared
94:15 people have falsely maligned and smeared me as an anti-semite despite my advocacy
94:18 me as an anti-semite despite my advocacy against anti-semitism.
94:19 against anti-semitism. >> So this this is this brings us to the
94:21 >> So this this is this brings us to the last area I want to talk about. You've
94:23 last area I want to talk about. You've mentioned you've mentioned a few times
94:25 mentioned you've mentioned a few times growing up in Turkey. Mhm.
94:26 growing up in Turkey. Mhm. >> Just talk about for a minute your your
94:28 >> Just talk about for a minute your your background in the Middle East and how it
94:30 background in the Middle East and how it shaped your politics. How it even how it
94:32 shaped your politics. How it even how it radicalized you might be a good way of
94:34 radicalized you might be a good way of putting it.
94:35 putting it. >> Yeah. I mean I have I think a very
94:38 >> Yeah. I mean I have I think a very different opinion about American foreign
94:40 different opinion about American foreign policy than the average American has due
94:42 policy than the average American has due to the fact that I didn't grow up in
94:44 to the fact that I didn't grow up in America. I had more proximity or a
94:46 America. I had more proximity or a closeness to uh I guess the the
94:49 closeness to uh I guess the the recipient of American violence and
94:51 recipient of American violence and American intervention. uh being uh
94:55 American intervention. uh being uh someone who who uh grew up in Turkey and
94:59 someone who who uh grew up in Turkey and yes, bro, Middle East is is like is a
95:02 yes, bro, Middle East is is like is a wild way to talk about it, but it is
95:05 wild way to talk about it, but it is what it is. Come on, just move.
95:06 what it is. Come on, just move. Therefore, my starting position is very
95:08 Therefore, my starting position is very different uh to uh to the way that like
95:12 different uh to uh to the way that like the American world police narrative was
95:14 the American world police narrative was designed in the United States of
95:16 designed in the United States of America, admonishing its enemies, making
95:18 America, admonishing its enemies, making them seem as though they're uh you know,
95:20 them seem as though they're uh you know, barbaric uh and and deserving of like
95:23 barbaric uh and and deserving of like some kind of direct military
95:25 some kind of direct military intervention. These are things that I
95:27 intervention. These are things that I obviously consider to be not only wrong,
95:30 obviously consider to be not only wrong, but also uh uh incredibly consequential.
95:35 but also uh uh incredibly consequential. This kind of sentiment was incredibly
95:36 This kind of sentiment was incredibly consequential for people who had to live
95:39 consequential for people who had to live in these countries and had to be victims
95:41 in these countries and had to be victims to uh boots on the ground military
95:43 to uh boots on the ground military warfare and and even like the drone wars
95:46 warfare and and even like the drone wars that uh greatly escalated under Obama.
95:50 that uh greatly escalated under Obama. >> What what do you think about the
95:51 >> What what do you think about the government of Turkey?
95:54 government of Turkey? I
95:56 I I am not a fan of the government of
95:59 I am not a fan of the government of Turkey and uh I've written uh
96:02 Turkey and uh I've written uh extensively about uh my criticisms of
96:04 extensively about uh my criticisms of the government of Turkey. uh and uh
96:07 the government of Turkey. uh and uh there it's part of the reason why I
96:09 there it's part of the reason why I can't really go back to Turkey even
96:11 can't really go back to Turkey even though my whole family lives there uh
96:13 though my whole family lives there uh out of fear that uh I might be uh I
96:16 out of fear that uh I might be uh I might be jailed
96:18 might be jailed and I don't think the Trump
96:19 and I don't think the Trump administration would demand my return as
96:21 administration would demand my return as an American citizen.
96:24 an American citizen. I I'm curious how you think about how
96:26 I I'm curious how you think about how left-wing politics and Middle Eastern
96:30 left-wing politics and Middle Eastern culture and Islamic politics fit
96:32 culture and Islamic politics fit together. And I understand you're not
96:35 together. And I understand you're not you're not you're not a Muslim. You
96:36 you're not you're not a Muslim. You don't consider yourself a Muslim and so
96:38 don't consider yourself a Muslim and so on, right? But you culturally I'm
96:41 on, right? But you culturally I'm cultally Muslim in the same way many
96:42 cultally Muslim in the same way many secular Jews are Jewish or many American
96:45 secular Jews are Jewish or many American Protestants say that they're Christian
96:46 Protestants say that they're Christian but they're not really.
96:47 but they're not really. >> Right. So I'm going to ask you for a
96:48 >> Right. So I'm going to ask you for a take and you know based based on that
96:51 take and you know based based on that background cuz I'm really interested in
96:52 background cuz I'm really interested in the ways that sort of
96:54 the ways that sort of >> he's going to say Islamociism.
96:57 >> he's going to say Islamociism. Dude, the mind of an American
96:59 Dude, the mind of an American right-winger that is like an
97:00 right-winger that is like an intellectual version is so funny because
97:04 intellectual version is so funny because the intellectual version of of the
97:07 the intellectual version of of the American right is Ross Dowid, right? And
97:09 American right is Ross Dowid, right? And that is literally the perspective that
97:11 that is literally the perspective that he's about to describe here is like the
97:14 he's about to describe here is like the average racist in France, okay, down the
97:17 average racist in France, okay, down the street because he is trying to
97:20 street because he is trying to intellectualize islamogism,
97:22 intellectualize islamogism, okay? Islamo Marxism, Islamo leftism.
97:25 okay? Islamo Marxism, Islamo leftism. This is like the the hot European uh
97:28 This is like the the hot European uh bigoted sentiment. In America, we look
97:30 bigoted sentiment. In America, we look at that as like an advanced version, an
97:33 at that as like an advanced version, an intellectual version, an intellectual
97:35 intellectual version, an intellectual man, a thinking man's uh way of saying
97:38 man, a thinking man's uh way of saying Muhammadan.
97:43 Conservative forms of Islam and the culture of the progressive left right
97:45 culture of the progressive left right now fit together both in Europe and the
97:48 now fit together both in Europe and the United States because in a in a way
97:50 United States because in a in a way these are
97:51 these are >> some of the most different groups you
97:54 >> some of the most different groups you can imagine, right? sort of forms of
97:57 can imagine, right? sort of forms of Islamic cultural traditionalism are
97:59 Islamic cultural traditionalism are pretty distant from
98:01 pretty distant from >> the norms and mores of like the secular
98:03 >> the norms and mores of like the secular western left right
98:05 western left right >> at the same time including on some of
98:08 >> at the same time including on some of the issues that you've been talking
98:09 the issues that you've been talking about opposition to US foreign policy uh
98:12 about opposition to US foreign policy uh Israel Palestine and so on there's a
98:15 Israel Palestine and so on there's a very strong alliance often um between
98:20 very strong alliance often um between >> it's like the classic thing it's like
98:22 >> it's like the classic thing it's like yeah these guys are barbaric they don't
98:25 yeah these guys are barbaric they don't abide by your worldview. Uh why do you
98:27 abide by your worldview. Uh why do you not want them to be genocided? And I do
98:30 not want them to be genocided? And I do this thing where I was explaining to him
98:32 this thing where I was explaining to him like a worldview that I find morally
98:34 like a worldview that I find morally repugnant or abhorrent that is not
98:36 repugnant or abhorrent that is not morally equivalent. I I will use the KKK
98:39 morally equivalent. I I will use the KKK example here instead of Hamas. And then
98:40 example here instead of Hamas. And then I also explained like but this isn't
98:43 I also explained like but this isn't obviously a perfect example. I'm just
98:45 obviously a perfect example. I'm just using the KKK as a as the most extreme
98:48 using the KKK as a as the most extreme position that I completely disagree
98:49 position that I completely disagree with. Right? even even those people I
98:53 with. Right? even even those people I don't think should be firebombed and and
98:55 don't think should be firebombed and and killed and uh you know genocided or
98:57 killed and uh you know genocided or whatever but anyway let's keep going
98:59 whatever but anyway let's keep going >> of Muslims who feel the US is too
99:01 >> of Muslims who feel the US is too imperialist or too too pro-Israel right
99:03 imperialist or too too pro-Israel right and these these groups and it's a very
99:05 and these these groups and it's a very this is a pretty important force in
99:07 this is a pretty important force in European politics and you see it I think
99:09 European politics and you see it I think you see it more in progressive politics
99:11 you see it more in progressive politics in the US right now as sort of
99:14 in the US right now as sort of opposition to Israeli military
99:17 opposition to Israeli military operations
99:17 operations >> also dismissing the progressive aspects
99:19 >> also dismissing the progressive aspects of Muslims while calling them evil
99:20 of Muslims while calling them evil because of Islam Goism. Yeah.
99:24 because of Islam Goism. Yeah. Uh if you're Muslim, automatically
99:26 Uh if you're Muslim, automatically you're barbaric and evil and right-wing
99:27 you're barbaric and evil and right-wing and backwards. Also, often times the
99:29 and backwards. Also, often times the people that say that are literally evil
99:31 people that say that are literally evil and backwards and right-wing, which is
99:33 and backwards and right-wing, which is really funny. Uh it's it's something
99:35 really funny. Uh it's it's something that I joke about all the time. Like
99:37 that I joke about all the time. Like conservatives hate the conservatism of
99:41 conservatives hate the conservatism of brown conservatives. Like how many times
99:43 brown conservatives. Like how many times have you heard like Ben Shapiro or even
99:45 have you heard like Ben Shapiro or even like Asmagall will do this sometimes?
99:47 like Asmagall will do this sometimes? He'll be like, "Oh, they hate trans
99:49 He'll be like, "Oh, they hate trans people over there." Right? And it's
99:50 people over there." Right? And it's like, but but don't you also kind of
99:52 like, but but don't you also kind of hate trans people? Like, I don't
99:53 hate trans people? Like, I don't understand. You don't want them in your
99:54 understand. You don't want them in your video games? You make a big deal out of
99:55 video games? You make a big deal out of it all the time. Or not even Asiggo.
99:57 it all the time. Or not even Asiggo. Grums. Grums is a great example of this.
99:59 Grums. Grums is a great example of this. He was celebrating that Saudi Arabia
100:01 He was celebrating that Saudi Arabia bought Electronic Arts. And he was like,
100:04 bought Electronic Arts. And he was like, "Finally, no more gays in video games."
100:06 "Finally, no more gays in video games." I'm like, "Dog,
100:08 I'm like, "Dog, hello. Do you hear yourself? You're
100:12 hello. Do you hear yourself? You're saying like awesome. Now, it's like the
100:14 saying like awesome. Now, it's like the the Saudi kingdom, which is perhaps the
100:17 the Saudi kingdom, which is perhaps the most like fundamentalist long-standing
100:20 most like fundamentalist long-standing form of monarchy, will now control the
100:23 form of monarchy, will now control the the cultural output of this uh formerly
100:26 the cultural output of this uh formerly beloved, not really, but you know, this
100:30 beloved, not really, but you know, this this otherwise like western enterprise,
100:33 this otherwise like western enterprise, and you think it's like awesome. You're
100:34 and you think it's like awesome. You're basically saying like, "Oh, no, it's
100:36 basically saying like, "Oh, no, it's cool. Like, I I want the the the Taliban
100:39 cool. Like, I I want the the the Taliban to own EA Sports." like that's or EA in
100:43 to own EA Sports." like that's or EA in general cuz like that I hate the the gay
100:45 general cuz like that I hate the the gay people in the same way that like I think
100:47 people in the same way that like I think the Saudi government hates gay people.
100:49 the Saudi government hates gay people. Is that the argument like that's what
100:50 Is that the argument like that's what you're honestly saying? Okay, cool.
100:52 you're honestly saying? Okay, cool. Thank you for being honest. I guess
100:54 Thank you for being honest. I guess >> has become more and more of a litmus
100:55 >> has become more and more of a litmus test.
100:56 test. >> I'm by the way, no one is going to Saudi
100:58 >> I'm by the way, no one is going to Saudi Arabia is not going to make is not going
101:00 Arabia is not going to make is not going to do an anti-woke initiative for EA.
101:02 to do an anti-woke initiative for EA. They don't give a they just want to
101:04 They don't give a they just want to diversify their portfolio. People are so
101:06 diversify their portfolio. People are so stupid.
101:07 stupid. >> Yeah. I'm just curious if you have
101:08 >> Yeah. I'm just curious if you have thoughts on like how that how that fits
101:12 thoughts on like how that how that fits together. These two very different very
101:15 together. These two very different very culturally different groups having a
101:17 culturally different groups having a kind of alliance of is it alliance of
101:19 kind of alliance of is it alliance of convenience? Is it something more? What
101:20 convenience? Is it something more? What do you think about that?
101:22 do you think about that? >> Super easy to explain. I disagree
101:25 >> Super easy to explain. I disagree vehemently with the clan. I don't want
101:28 vehemently with the clan. I don't want Arkansas to be firebombed
101:31 Arkansas to be firebombed into oblivion. I don't want the children
101:33 into oblivion. I don't want the children of clans members to be killed at their
101:36 of clans members to be killed at their schools. I don't want the hospitals that
101:38 schools. I don't want the hospitals that clans members go to to be bombed as
101:41 clans members go to to be bombed as well. And I'm not even making an
101:42 well. And I'm not even making an equivocation between the clan and for
101:44 equivocation between the clan and for example Hamas, which I consider to be a
101:47 example Hamas, which I consider to be a resistance group. They they have a
101:49 resistance group. They they have a emancipatory movement ultimately. I
101:51 emancipatory movement ultimately. I don't agree with their internal
101:52 don't agree with their internal politics, their domestic affairs. I
101:54 politics, their domestic affairs. I don't agree with uh a lot of the things
101:56 don't agree with uh a lot of the things that they represent or a lot of the
101:58 that they represent or a lot of the things that they say, but these are
101:59 things that they say, but these are utterly inconsequential in the grand
102:02 utterly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things in the overarching
102:03 scheme of things in the overarching hierarchy. Uh where the the number one
102:08 hierarchy. Uh where the the number one most consequential wrong that's taking
102:10 most consequential wrong that's taking place is not only um 78 plus years of of
102:15 place is not only um 78 plus years of of brutal occupation and apartheid, but
102:18 brutal occupation and apartheid, but then also the ongoing genocide for the
102:20 then also the ongoing genocide for the past 2 years. I feel like that is far
102:23 past 2 years. I feel like that is far more important to address than any
102:26 more important to address than any number of of different like civil
102:28 number of of different like civil liberty initiatives that Muslim
102:30 liberty initiatives that Muslim countries could engage in. And I think a
102:32 countries could engage in. And I think a lot of people see it that way as well
102:34 lot of people see it that way as well where they're just like I don't think
102:35 where they're just like I don't think this should be happening. I don't think
102:37 this should be happening. I don't think that this violence should be happening
102:39 that this violence should be happening and we need to solve that first and
102:41 and we need to solve that first and foremost. It's not necessarily that uh
102:43 foremost. It's not necessarily that uh leftists in the west are like uh uh firm
102:47 leftists in the west are like uh uh firm and committed believers in I don't know
102:50 and committed believers in I don't know whatever kind of like stereotype version
102:53 whatever kind of like stereotype version of of uh Islamic fundamentalism.
102:55 of of uh Islamic fundamentalism. >> No, I don't Oh, I don't think they are
102:57 >> No, I don't Oh, I don't think they are at all that people present.
102:58 at all that people present. >> No, I I completely agree. That's that's
103:01 >> No, I I completely agree. That's that's I think a big part of why it's
103:03 I think a big part of why it's >> an interesting an interesting political
103:05 >> an interesting an interesting political formation. Right.
103:07 formation. Right. >> I'm going to run with the clan analogy
103:09 >> I'm going to run with the clan analogy just because you offered it to me,
103:11 just because you offered it to me, right? like if there was a war against a
103:15 right? like if there was a war against a small political state controlled by the
103:18 small political state controlled by the KKK that followed in the aftermath of
103:21 KKK that followed in the aftermath of the KKK going out and killing a lot of
103:24 the KKK going out and killing a lot of African-Americans, black women and
103:26 African-Americans, black women and children. Um
103:28 children. Um >> and the larger region consisted of a
103:32 >> and the larger region consisted of a bunch of regimes that even if they
103:33 bunch of regimes that even if they weren't fully KKK, had some sort of
103:36 weren't fully KKK, had some sort of white supremacist.
103:36 white supremacist. >> He thinks this is a gotcha, but it's
103:38 >> He thinks this is a gotcha, but it's not. And you'll see why.
103:39 not. And you'll see why. you know, elements uh at all. We're
103:41 you know, elements uh at all. We're authoritarian and so on, right? Like
103:45 authoritarian and so on, right? Like >> I feel like a lot of people would see a
103:47 >> I feel like a lot of people would see a little more complexity in that drama
103:50 little more complexity in that drama than your than you do in the way you
103:52 than your than you do in the way you talk about Israel and Zionism.
103:54 talk about Israel and Zionism. >> Yeah.
103:55 >> Yeah. >> And I should say I think I think
103:57 >> And I should say I think I think opposition to and skepticism of the
104:00 opposition to and skepticism of the Israeli strategy in Gaza is totally
104:02 Israeli strategy in Gaza is totally understandable and I've expressed it
104:03 understandable and I've expressed it myself. Right. But you're something
104:05 myself. Right. But you're something more. again, you are you're an you're an
104:07 more. again, you are you're an you're an anti-ionist.
104:09 anti-ionist. >> Yeah.
104:09 >> Yeah. >> You've in fact you've said as long as
104:11 >> You've in fact you've said as long as we're doing KKK things in one of your
104:13 we're doing KKK things in one of your one of your arguments. You've said sort
104:15 one of your arguments. You've said sort of, you know, uh a certain kind of
104:17 of, you know, uh a certain kind of Zionist tendency should be treated the
104:18 Zionist tendency should be treated the same way we treat neo-Nazi tendencies,
104:20 same way we treat neo-Nazi tendencies, right? And and that kind of rhetoric
104:22 right? And and that kind of rhetoric shows up around around on the left.
104:24 shows up around around on the left. >> These are my favorite moments. I know
104:26 >> These are my favorite moments. I know like in the New York Times circles see
104:29 like in the New York Times circles see the other stuff like Luigi Manion
104:31 the other stuff like Luigi Manion whatever like not Luigi Manion but like
104:33 whatever like not Luigi Manion but like landlord stuff like those sorts of
104:36 landlord stuff like those sorts of things the New York Times readers are
104:37 things the New York Times readers are going to be like oo that's kind of scary
104:39 going to be like oo that's kind of scary actually but many of them are adults and
104:41 actually but many of them are adults and they're obviously completely aware of
104:43 they're obviously completely aware of like what is taking place here because
104:45 like what is taking place here because they're tuned into the goddamn New York
104:47 they're tuned into the goddamn New York Times they know what the Trump is up to
104:49 Times they know what the Trump is up to but these guys think that those
104:53 but these guys think that those statements are actually reflected on
104:57 statements are actually reflected on poorly by the audience. When the
105:00 poorly by the audience. When the audience hears me say those things, his
105:03 audience hears me say those things, his audience,
105:05 audience, New York Times readers, when they hear
105:06 New York Times readers, when they hear me say those things, they're going to be
105:07 me say those things, they're going to be like, "Oh, I agree with everything that
105:09 like, "Oh, I agree with everything that you just presented as like violent and
105:11 you just presented as like violent and and negative commentary." Cuz the
105:14 and negative commentary." Cuz the reality of the matter is when he tries
105:16 reality of the matter is when he tries to present this as like, "Well, you
105:17 to present this as like, "Well, you know, Zionists are should be treated
105:20 know, Zionists are should be treated like the KKK." It's like, "Yeah, I
105:22 like the KKK." It's like, "Yeah, I agree." Cuz they are.
105:24 agree." Cuz they are. >> Yeah. Isn't there something a little bit
105:26 >> Yeah. Isn't there something a little bit strange from a left-wing perspective
105:29 strange from a left-wing perspective about the that kind of focus on the
105:33 about the that kind of focus on the crimes of one country?
105:34 crimes of one country? >> He's doing the why do you care so much
105:36 >> He's doing the why do you care so much about the Jewish state?
105:38 about the Jewish state? >> God, I got to actually do like a
105:40 >> God, I got to actually do like a full-blown debate with someone on Israel
105:43 full-blown debate with someone on Israel cuz honestly I I think like I've dealt
105:47 cuz honestly I I think like I've dealt with all of this so many times that it's
105:49 with all of this so many times that it's just like I really I really want to do
105:51 just like I really I really want to do it. Maybe Ben Shapiro. It could happen
105:55 it. Maybe Ben Shapiro. It could happen maybe in the month of January. It could
105:56 maybe in the month of January. It could happen
105:57 happen >> that you've just yourself analogized to
106:00 >> that you've just yourself analogized to to the KKK.
106:02 to the KKK. >> So, great question. Um, the reason why I
106:05 >> So, great question. Um, the reason why I made certain to mention that I find the
106:10 made certain to mention that I find the clan's political opinions to be
106:11 clan's political opinions to be repugnant, but I still would not
106:13 repugnant, but I still would not advocate to firebomb them. then also
106:15 advocate to firebomb them. then also made a distinction between Hamas as an
106:18 made a distinction between Hamas as an emancipatory movement that is that has
106:21 emancipatory movement that is that has evolved over the years to fight back in
106:25 evolved over the years to fight back in ways that I might even personally find
106:27 ways that I might even personally find to be uh uh inappropriate or morally
106:31 to be uh uh inappropriate or morally repugnant. Um ultimately
106:32 repugnant. Um ultimately >> one or the other
106:34 >> one or the other >> there is more more of more inappropriate
106:36 >> there is more more of more inappropriate or more morally repugnant. I think that
106:40 or more morally repugnant. I think that as as someone who believes in human
106:42 as as someone who believes in human rights, I think like targeting civilians
106:43 rights, I think like targeting civilians is the major reason why I criticize
106:45 is the major reason why I criticize Israel. It would be very hypocritical if
106:47 Israel. It would be very hypocritical if I consider targeting civilians to be
106:50 I consider targeting civilians to be appropriate if it was uh done during an
106:53 appropriate if it was uh done during an emancipatory struggle. Having said that,
106:55 emancipatory struggle. Having said that, I do have uh the same understanding or
106:58 I do have uh the same understanding or the same uh uh the the same
107:00 the same uh uh the the same conceptualization of that kind of
107:02 conceptualization of that kind of resistance uh as I do with the ANC or as
107:06 resistance uh as I do with the ANC or as I do with the IRA or even uh with with
107:09 I do with the IRA or even uh with with the abolition of slavery in this
107:11 the abolition of slavery in this country. Right? The reason why I don't
107:13 country. Right? The reason why I don't think it's an apt analogy to compare the
107:14 think it's an apt analogy to compare the KKK to Hamas beyond like disagreements
107:18 KKK to Hamas beyond like disagreements and and and enforcement is because the
107:21 and and and enforcement is because the clan has not been dominated or or the
107:26 clan has not been dominated or or the the clan itself has not existed under a
107:28 the clan itself has not existed under a a brutal structure of like black
107:31 a brutal structure of like black supremacy uh that uh that wiped them
107:35 supremacy uh that uh that wiped them out. This is the reason why I don't
107:37 out. This is the reason why I don't think the comparison is apt in that
107:39 think the comparison is apt in that regard because I I do agree with
107:41 regard because I I do agree with Palestinian liberation as as a concept.
107:45 Palestinian liberation as as a concept. Whereas I would liken the clans
107:47 Whereas I would liken the clans operations or their worldview uh to the
107:51 operations or their worldview uh to the same kind of ethnoreigious supremacy
107:52 same kind of ethnoreigious supremacy that is baked into Zionism as well and
107:55 that is baked into Zionism as well and the exterminationist policies I think
107:57 the exterminationist policies I think that also exists within Zionism as well.
107:59 that also exists within Zionism as well. So the clan is a closer analogy uh when
108:02 So the clan is a closer analogy uh when when it formalizes and it turns into a
108:04 when it formalizes and it turns into a system of violence to what Israel is
108:06 system of violence to what Israel is doing. This is why I'm also not shy
108:08 doing. This is why I'm also not shy about making comparisons to even Nazi
108:10 about making comparisons to even Nazi Germany which a lot of people I think
108:12 Germany which a lot of people I think maybe a couple years ago even myself uh
108:15 maybe a couple years ago even myself uh would cons would would shy away from
108:16 would cons would would shy away from doing.
108:17 doing. >> Yeah. I mean, I think those comparisons
108:19 >> Yeah. I mean, I think those comparisons are are, you know, not really persuasive
108:23 are are, you know, not really persuasive at all if you actually read about the
108:25 at all if you actually read about the things that the Nazis
108:26 things that the Nazis >> I have.
108:29 >> I have. This is where it gets a little bit more
108:30 This is where it gets a little bit more heated cuz this is where he like he goes
108:33 heated cuz this is where he like he goes into New York Times mode, okay, where
108:35 into New York Times mode, okay, where he's like, "Okay, burp must defend
108:37 he's like, "Okay, burp must defend Israel did on the Eastern Front and
108:39 Israel did on the Eastern Front and compare them to, you know, whatever war
108:43 compare them to, you know, whatever war crimes you accuse Israel of." Th those
108:45 crimes you accuse Israel of." Th those comparisons seem pretty faulty to me.
108:47 comparisons seem pretty faulty to me. And they seem faulty in a way that again
108:50 And they seem faulty in a way that again I think yields a kind of unique
108:54 I think yields a kind of unique scapegoating of the Zionist state within
108:57 scapegoating of the Zionist state within the wider range of there's fundamentally
108:59 the wider range of there's fundamentally no difference to a clan crossing in a
109:01 no difference to a clan crossing in a black family's yard versus settler spray
109:03 black family's yard versus settler spray painting Jewish star in a Palestinian
109:04 painting Jewish star in a Palestinian home. Straight the up of course and
109:06 home. Straight the up of course and that's just the that's just the settler
109:08 that's just the that's just the settler violence which is again backed by the
109:09 violence which is again backed by the state in the same way that the clan was
109:11 state in the same way that the clan was backed by the state as well or at least
109:12 backed by the state as well or at least the state was turning a blind eye to. I
109:14 the state was turning a blind eye to. I would go so far as to say that like um I
109:16 would go so far as to say that like um I mean no actually it's a great comparison
109:18 mean no actually it's a great comparison but we're not even talking about when
109:19 but we're not even talking about when we're talking about Gaza obviously then
109:22 we're talking about Gaza obviously then the comparison goes away from the clan
109:23 the comparison goes away from the clan to Nazi Germany anyway let's see what he
109:26 to Nazi Germany anyway let's see what he had he said accuse you accuse Israel of
109:30 had he said accuse you accuse Israel of war crimes
109:31 war crimes >> middle eastern states especially right
109:33 >> middle eastern states especially right so like you know it's if you look at the
109:36 so like you know it's if you look at the history of the Middle East over the last
109:38 history of the Middle East over the last 80 years
109:40 80 years >> most of the crimes that you're accusing
109:42 >> most of the crimes that you're accusing the Israeli government of committing ha
109:45 the Israeli government of committing ha you know I mean if you look at the
109:47 you know I mean if you look at the history of Iraq if you look at what
109:49 history of Iraq if you look at what happened to the Jews in Arab countries
109:51 happened to the Jews in Arab countries after 1947 and 1948 if you're looking
109:54 after 1947 and 1948 if you're looking for you know ruthless oppression you can
109:56 for you know ruthless oppression you can look next door
109:57 look next door >> to Egypt right like
109:59 >> to Egypt right like >> it seems like there are many many
110:02 >> it seems like there are many many potential targets of a leftist utopian
110:06 potential targets of a leftist utopian form of moral
110:07 form of moral >> I've heard this so many times
110:08 >> I've heard this so many times >> I wish this entire thing was about
110:10 >> I wish this entire thing was about Israel dude I I would have I God I could
110:13 Israel dude I I would have I God I could talk about that foring hours. Also, this
110:16 talk about that foring hours. Also, this was like um I think we talked for 2
110:18 was like um I think we talked for 2 hours and this is an hour long. So, hour
110:20 hours and this is an hour long. So, hour and 14. So,
110:21 and 14. So, >> right now Israel is conducting a brutal
110:24 >> right now Israel is conducting a brutal war. And so, I'm not saying I'm not
110:27 war. And so, I'm not saying I'm not going to be a genocide.
110:28 going to be a genocide. >> I agree. I agree with you that like
110:29 >> I agree. I agree with you that like right now it would be weird for you to
110:31 right now it would be weird for you to go on your stream and say,
110:33 go on your stream and say, >> "Let's not talk about Gaza, you know,
110:35 >> "Let's not talk about Gaza, you know, let's talk about how the corruption of
110:37 let's talk about how the corruption of the Saudi monarchy." I I agree with
110:39 the Saudi monarchy." I I agree with that. at the same
110:40 that. at the same >> which by the way I do I do talk about
110:42 >> which by the way I do I do talk about the the Saudi monarchy quite a bit or
110:45 the the Saudi monarchy quite a bit or numerous other uh collaborative states
110:49 numerous other uh collaborative states uh far before even the Abraham Accords
110:51 uh far before even the Abraham Accords were implemented. I mean
110:52 were implemented. I mean >> but you wouldn't describe yourself right
110:55 >> but you wouldn't describe yourself right as an I don't I don't know what the
110:57 as an I don't I don't know what the right term is but you wouldn't say like
110:59 right term is but you wouldn't say like it's you know it's wrong for Saudi
111:02 it's you know it's wrong for Saudi Arabia to exist because it was you know
111:04 Arabia to exist because it was you know founded in some acts of violence, right?
111:06 founded in some acts of violence, right? >> Well, can I can I elaborate on that?
111:09 >> Well, can I can I elaborate on that? Yeah,
111:10 Yeah, >> I would say that it is utterly
111:12 >> I would say that it is utterly inappropriate and wrong if there were
111:15 inappropriate and wrong if there were exclusionary practices and some of this
111:17 exclusionary practices and some of this does exist in in the Muslim states that
111:19 does exist in in the Muslim states that we're talking about where uh there was
111:23 we're talking about where uh there was no uh no allowance for for example Jews
111:26 no uh no allowance for for example Jews to come and live in these countries,
111:29 to come and live in these countries, right? And and as a matter of fact,
111:31 right? And and as a matter of fact, >> oh no, this is like recent. So yeah, he
111:33 >> oh no, this is like recent. So yeah, he still doesn't call it a genocide even
111:34 still doesn't call it a genocide even after the UN called it a genocide.
111:37 after the UN called it a genocide. pretty sure speaking I'm pretty sure
111:38 pretty sure speaking I'm pretty sure speaking as a Christian that there are
111:40 speaking as a Christian that there are some pretty exclusivist rules in more
111:42 some pretty exclusivist rules in more than a few Middle Eastern countries.
111:44 than a few Middle Eastern countries. Right. So absolutely and I see that as a
111:47 Right. So absolutely and I see that as a as a uh as a byproduct of the rampant
111:51 as a uh as a byproduct of the rampant destabilization that has existed in this
111:53 destabilization that has existed in this resourcerich region and I my criticism
111:56 resourcerich region and I my criticism against these countries not having the
111:58 against these countries not having the allowance or not having any moment of of
112:00 allowance or not having any moment of of respit to be able to evolve. Um, I see
112:04 respit to be able to evolve. Um, I see that as a byproduct of American
112:06 that as a byproduct of American imperialism and Western imperialism as
112:08 imperialism and Western imperialism as well because it makes it a lot more
112:11 well because it makes it a lot more difficult for people to have uh any sort
112:13 difficult for people to have uh any sort of civil rights struggle when they're so
112:16 of civil rights struggle when they're so predisposed with uh being bombed or
112:18 predisposed with uh being bombed or being destabilized in one way, shape or
112:20 being destabilized in one way, shape or form other uh either in the hands of
112:22 form other uh either in the hands of Israel as as a destabilizing factor in
112:25 Israel as as a destabilizing factor in the region or directly through American
112:26 the region or directly through American intervention, British intervention and
112:28 intervention, British intervention and the like for for coups and whatnot to
112:30 the like for for coups and whatnot to take place in these countries. makes it
112:32 take place in these countries. makes it quite difficult for for uh the the
112:35 quite difficult for for uh the the regime change to take place in a
112:37 regime change to take place in a revolutionary manner. And the Iranian
112:39 revolutionary manner. And the Iranian revolution also is a is a great example
112:41 revolution also is a is a great example of this as well. When you put a puppet
112:43 of this as well. When you put a puppet state in charge that is western aligned,
112:45 state in charge that is western aligned, a lot of people and that puppet state
112:47 a lot of people and that puppet state must enforce its dominance over and over
112:49 must enforce its dominance over and over again through brutal practices of
112:51 again through brutal practices of torture and and mass incarceration.
112:53 torture and and mass incarceration. People are inevitably going to revolt
112:55 People are inevitably going to revolt against that. And what I have seen in my
112:57 against that. And what I have seen in my experience as someone growing up in
112:59 experience as someone growing up in Turkey, more often than not, the people
113:02 Turkey, more often than not, the people that actually find themselves the most
113:05 that actually find themselves the most earnest anti-western figures, the people
113:08 earnest anti-western figures, the people that that uh that these uh resentful
113:11 that that uh that these uh resentful populations can unite behind, often
113:13 populations can unite behind, often times actually wear fundamentalism as as
113:16 times actually wear fundamentalism as as a as a way to show how anti-western they
113:21 a as a way to show how anti-western they are. And this is the reason why some of
113:22 are. And this is the reason why some of these like despotic regimes actually end
113:25 these like despotic regimes actually end up uh taking power.
113:27 up uh taking power. >> But you wouldn't you wouldn't extend it
113:30 >> But you wouldn't you wouldn't extend it seems to me like you wouldn't extend
113:32 seems to me like you wouldn't extend that kind of structural argument and
113:35 that kind of structural argument and narrative to the Israelis, right? You're
113:38 narrative to the Israelis, right? You're like, well, to a certain degree I do,
113:40 like, well, to a certain degree I do, but Israel is a colonial power in this
113:42 but Israel is a colonial power in this situation. So yes, there's a difference
113:44 situation. So yes, there's a difference between victims of settler colonialism
113:46 between victims of settler colonialism versus those who are doing settler
113:48 versus those who are doing settler colonialism. And there's certainly a
113:50 colonialism. And there's certainly a difference between people who have
113:53 difference between people who have experienced colonialism or war and the
113:56 experienced colonialism or war and the destabilizing nature of war itself or
113:59 destabilizing nature of war itself or even CIA intervention like in the case
114:01 even CIA intervention like in the case with Iran are obviously going to have
114:04 with Iran are obviously going to have revolutionary movements that are going
114:06 revolutionary movements that are going to have fundamentalist leaders because
114:08 to have fundamentalist leaders because those are the earnest anti-western
114:10 those are the earnest anti-western figures. Israel is not a comparison that
114:13 figures. Israel is not a comparison that you can make with Iran because Israel's
114:15 you can make with Iran because Israel's fundamentalism is similar to America's
114:18 fundamentalism is similar to America's fundamentalism, which I think I brought
114:21 fundamentalism, which I think I brought up here as well, where I talk about
114:23 up here as well, where I talk about Israel uh uh growing in its hate because
114:25 Israel uh uh growing in its hate because of its refusal to examine the inherent
114:28 of its refusal to examine the inherent contradiction of the humanity of
114:29 contradiction of the humanity of Palestinians that they always have to
114:31 Palestinians that they always have to dehumanize and then forcibly exise from
114:34 dehumanize and then forcibly exise from the land.
114:35 the land. >> You know, there's so much there's
114:36 >> You know, there's so much there's Western imperialism, you know, there's
114:39 Western imperialism, you know, there's war, there's violence. This is this is
114:41 war, there's violence. This is this is how the Middle East, you know, ends up
114:42 how the Middle East, you know, ends up with dictators and theocrats. Okay. The
114:46 with dictators and theocrats. Okay. The state of Israel has been surrounded by
114:48 state of Israel has been surrounded by countries that deny its right to exist,
114:50 countries that deny its right to exist, have invaded it repeatedly. And
114:53 have invaded it repeatedly. And >> you said Israel is too busy killing
114:54 >> you said Israel is too busy killing Palestinians to have a civil rights
114:55 Palestinians to have a civil rights evolution to respect Palestinians. I
114:57 evolution to respect Palestinians. I know that's nuts.
114:59 know that's nuts. >> I don't think and and yet that narrative
115:01 >> I don't think and and yet that narrative to you
115:03 to you >> does not inspire any sympathy for
115:05 >> does not inspire any sympathy for >> cringe lord. Thank you for the 50
115:08 >> cringe lord. Thank you for the 50 >> because because they're because they're
115:09 >> because because they're because they're currently winning.
115:10 currently winning. >> It's incorrect to say that my analysis
115:12 >> It's incorrect to say that my analysis does not factor in uh like externalities
115:15 does not factor in uh like externalities or or resistance against like uh
115:18 or or resistance against like uh Israel's incursions, for example.
115:20 Israel's incursions, for example. Ultimately, it goes back to did the
115:22 Ultimately, it goes back to did the Palestinians have good reason to say we
115:27 Palestinians have good reason to say we oppose this. The war wouldn't have
115:29 oppose this. The war wouldn't have happened if Hamas committed mass murder.
115:30 happened if Hamas committed mass murder. Hamas are ISIS. Can you not see that?
115:32 Hamas are ISIS. Can you not see that? And Ben Shapiro wouldn't waste his time
115:34 And Ben Shapiro wouldn't waste his time on you knowing your brainwashed to think
115:36 on you knowing your brainwashed to think Palestine are the divine. Well, I I
115:39 Palestine are the divine. Well, I I mentioned Ben Shapiro on purpose because
115:41 mentioned Ben Shapiro on purpose because he is going to waste his time on me. Exo
115:44 he is going to waste his time on me. Exo Sophie. Exo. You can go back hundreds of
115:46 Sophie. Exo. You can go back hundreds of years and they always started their own
115:47 years and they always started their own wars with five Jewish countries. You
115:49 wars with five Jewish countries. You know what's really funny about this, by
115:50 know what's really funny about this, by the way? This is a damn near verbatim
115:53 the way? This is a damn near verbatim identical argument against like Muslims
115:57 identical argument against like Muslims that Nazis used against the Jews. Dude,
116:00 that Nazis used against the Jews. Dude, that's what's so crazy to me. Jewish
116:03 that's what's so crazy to me. Jewish Nazis straight up took what anti-Jewish
116:07 Nazis straight up took what anti-Jewish Nazis were saying about Jews and made it
116:10 Nazis were saying about Jews and made it their own thing. This is literally
116:13 their own thing. This is literally verbatim the 109 countries narrative bar
116:17 verbatim the 109 countries narrative bar forbar. When you hear Nazis go it's got
116:20 forbar. When you hear Nazis go it's got to be a reason why Jews were kicked out
116:23 to be a reason why Jews were kicked out of 109 countries. That's what these
116:26 of 109 countries. That's what these stupid Zionist Nazi morons are doing.
116:30 stupid Zionist Nazi morons are doing. They don't even realize it. There's not
116:32 They don't even realize it. There's not even a shred of irony in this situation.
116:34 even a shred of irony in this situation. Not even a little bit of an irony. Like,
116:36 Not even a little bit of an irony. Like, you don't even understand it. You don't
116:38 you don't even understand it. You don't understand that you are literally a
116:40 understand that you are literally a neo-Nazi. Okay? You are a Jewish
116:43 neo-Nazi. Okay? You are a Jewish neo-Nazi. How is this so difficult to
116:46 neo-Nazi. How is this so difficult to comprehend? You're saying that about
116:48 comprehend? You're saying that about Muslims.
116:50 Muslims. All of the Oh, there's a reason why
116:52 All of the Oh, there's a reason why nobody wants the Palestinians.
116:55 nobody wants the Palestinians. I feel like half of the people that were
116:57 I feel like half of the people that were sitting in like Holocaust studies were
117:00 sitting in like Holocaust studies were taking notes to be like, "This is the
117:02 taking notes to be like, "This is the most scary I've ever heard. We got to
117:04 most scary I've ever heard. We got to make sure this never happens again." And
117:06 make sure this never happens again." And then the other half was sitting there
117:07 then the other half was sitting there being like, "Well, that's pretty good. I
117:09 being like, "Well, that's pretty good. I think we can use this one. Wow, they
117:12 think we can use this one. Wow, they really cooked on this one. Okay, maybe
117:14 really cooked on this one. Okay, maybe not the oven thing, but we can just use
117:16 not the oven thing, but we can just use conventional munitions." Like, what the
117:19 conventional munitions." Like, what the is this? It literally feels like you
117:21 is this? It literally feels like you were taking nose when during Holocaust
117:23 were taking nose when during Holocaust studies. They'd be like, "This is what
117:24 studies. They'd be like, "This is what we should do to the Palestinians. This
117:25 we should do to the Palestinians. This is what we should say about the the
117:27 is what we should say about the the Muslims as a whole and the Palestinians
117:29 Muslims as a whole and the Palestinians as a whole. What the happened
117:32 as a whole. What the happened Israeli state? Was it born out of
117:34 Israeli state? Was it born out of ancient anti-semitism?" Check her reply
117:37 ancient anti-semitism?" Check her reply bar for bar. What' she say? What' that
117:39 bar for bar. What' she say? What' that dumbass say?
117:41 dumbass say? It's facts. Nothing Nazi about it. Yes.
117:44 It's facts. Nothing Nazi about it. Yes. Nazis say that about Jews, dumbass. And
117:48 Nazis say that about Jews, dumbass. And when they're called out for it, they
117:50 when they're called out for it, they turn around and say the exact same
117:52 turn around and say the exact same thing.
117:54 thing. You're so stupid.
117:57 You're so stupid. God damn. That's literally That's just
118:00 God damn. That's literally That's just fascism. That's just fascism. There's no
118:02 fascism. That's just fascism. There's no better description that this is a a a
118:05 better description that this is a a a fascist ideology than this exact
118:07 fascist ideology than this exact conversation that just took place.
118:09 conversation that just took place. >> Or was it born out of an emancipatory
118:11 >> Or was it born out of an emancipatory need that all indigenous people have,
118:13 need that all indigenous people have, all peoples of the world have in terms
118:15 all peoples of the world have in terms of developing autonomy
118:17 of developing autonomy that Israel makes for its own Jewish
118:20 that Israel makes for its own Jewish determination, right? a Jewish state's
118:22 determination, right? a Jewish state's self-determination, which
118:24 self-determination, which >> but surely it could be both, right? You
118:26 >> but surely it could be both, right? You could say, of course, there's, you know,
118:27 could say, of course, there's, you know, there's an admirable, understandable
118:29 there's an admirable, understandable desire for emancipation, a desire to
118:32 desire for emancipation, a desire to have your home own homeland. Um,
118:34 have your home own homeland. Um, >> and but at the same time, at a certain
118:36 >> and but at the same time, at a certain point, when it hits,
118:38 point, when it hits, >> you know, certain a certain level of uh,
118:42 >> you know, certain a certain level of uh, you know, KKK style hatred, you would
118:46 you know, KKK style hatred, you would say even if the original motivation is
118:48 say even if the original motivation is correct, even if they're understandable
118:49 correct, even if they're understandable motivations here, something hatred is
118:51 motivations here, something hatred is correct. That's precisely the reason why
118:53 correct. That's precisely the reason why it invokes a violent resist or re
118:55 it invokes a violent resist or re reaction though. But ultimately
118:57 reaction though. But ultimately >> that is what Zionism ends up becoming.
119:00 >> that is what Zionism ends up becoming. And like he doesn't understand. I think
119:02 And like he doesn't understand. I think he's talking about KKK style and talking
119:04 he's talking about KKK style and talking about Hamas and I'm talking about
119:06 about Hamas and I'm talking about Israel.
119:08 Israel. Like that's why I was like yeah you're
119:10 Like that's why I was like yeah you're right. Of course the KKK style hatred is
119:13 right. Of course the KKK style hatred is going to invoke some kind of violent
119:14 going to invoke some kind of violent resistance. And I'm like, no, that's why
119:17 resistance. And I'm like, no, that's why Hamas is resisting violently.
119:19 Hamas is resisting violently. >> If left unressed, this inherent
119:21 >> If left unressed, this inherent contradiction, this this notion that uh
119:24 contradiction, this this notion that uh of
119:24 of >> he doesn't understand that the
119:26 >> he doesn't understand that the comparison is more apt when we're
119:27 comparison is more apt when we're talking about like KKK versus Israel,
119:29 talking about like KKK versus Israel, the comparison is more apt for Israel
119:30 the comparison is more apt for Israel instead of Hamas. Self-determination is
119:33 instead of Hamas. Self-determination is presented as like a totally normal
119:35 presented as like a totally normal thing. Everybody has self-determination.
119:37 thing. Everybody has self-determination. People have a right to to develop their
119:38 People have a right to to develop their own nation state. But this one
119:41 own nation state. But this one specifically has demographic concerns.
119:44 specifically has demographic concerns. demographic concerns that require the
119:46 demographic concerns that require the eradication or the mass displacement of
119:48 eradication or the mass displacement of the indigenous population that do not
119:50 the indigenous population that do not fit the the inroup, the demographic
119:53 fit the the inroup, the demographic inroup.
119:55 inroup. Come on, tell me that's not a cooking
119:56 Come on, tell me that's not a cooking though for like liberals. I mean, yeah,
120:00 though for like liberals. I mean, yeah, everybody has a right to
120:02 everybody has a right to self-determination, but you can't do
120:03 self-determination, but you can't do that by being like, "My right, my
120:05 that by being like, "My right, my self-determination requires me to be an
120:07 self-determination requires me to be an ethnostate. Sorry." That's a cooking.
120:11 ethnostate. Sorry." That's a cooking. All right? And that is at the heart of
120:14 All right? And that is at the heart of this this uh problem of of of how
120:16 this this uh problem of of of how certain societies
120:18 certain societies >> get more and more comfortable with
120:20 >> get more and more comfortable with fascist violence. And I see this as a as
120:23 fascist violence. And I see this as a as a dual problem in America as well as
120:25 a dual problem in America as well as Israel.
120:26 Israel. >> So let's take let's just take that
120:27 >> So let's take let's just take that because I know you have to go stream.
120:28 because I know you have to go stream. This is this is the last
120:30 This is this is the last >> I mean I could talk about this all day
120:31 >> I mean I could talk about this all day by the way especially on the New York
120:32 by the way especially on the New York Times. I mean this
120:33 Times. I mean this >> but you I'm sure you will be talking
120:35 >> but you I'm sure you will be talking about it all day. Some of us
120:37 about it all day. Some of us >> I told the facts the history of be
120:39 >> I told the facts the history of be thinking is facts do check it. You and
120:41 thinking is facts do check it. You and your followers are in a woke world that
120:42 your followers are in a woke world that will make you see. What? What are you
120:44 will make you see. What? What are you talking about? Like, what are you
120:46 talking about? Like, what are you talking about? What are you talking
120:47 talking about? What are you talking about, dude? You literally said
120:49 about, dude? You literally said Palestinians are getting kicked out all
120:50 Palestinians are getting kicked out all the time. Arabs are the ones who always
120:52 the time. Arabs are the ones who always start the wars. And you're straight up
120:55 start the wars. And you're straight up using Nazi rhetoric when talking about
120:58 using Nazi rhetoric when talking about Jews. Like, this is what Nazis say about
121:01 Jews. Like, this is what Nazis say about Jews. If that's not enough for you, I
121:03 Jews. If that's not enough for you, I don't know what else to say. You're
121:04 don't know what else to say. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're just
121:06 wrong. You're wrong. You're just straight up wrong. Jewish people were
121:08 straight up wrong. Jewish people were not or Jewish people were there. 2% of
121:12 not or Jewish people were there. 2% of the population in Palestine was Jewish,
121:14 the population in Palestine was Jewish, but Jewish people did not like
121:16 but Jewish people did not like materialize there and then all of a
121:18 materialize there and then all of a sudden everyone was like, "Whoa, what
121:20 sudden everyone was like, "Whoa, what the like we have to purge the Jews
121:22 the like we have to purge the Jews because we're anti-Semitic." Like that's
121:24 because we're anti-Semitic." Like that's not how this happened, okay? It was a
121:26 not how this happened, okay? It was a settler colonial occupation deliberately
121:29 settler colonial occupation deliberately designed to slowly but surely through a
121:32 designed to slowly but surely through a process of aliyah through a process of
121:34 process of aliyah through a process of immigration initially pilgrimages in the
121:37 immigration initially pilgrimages in the same way that like the early colonists
121:39 same way that like the early colonists did in the United States of America came
121:42 did in the United States of America came in and caused a lot of chaos. The
121:45 in and caused a lot of chaos. The indigenous population understandably
121:47 indigenous population understandably resisted against it. There were riots
121:48 resisted against it. There were riots and protests and whatnot. Some of that
121:50 and protests and whatnot. Some of that even turned bloody and deadly. But
121:52 even turned bloody and deadly. But ultimately the colonial power pulled
121:55 ultimately the colonial power pulled back and the Zionist brigades took over
121:58 back and the Zionist brigades took over and mass slaughtered and then ethnically
122:00 and mass slaughtered and then ethnically cleansed the Palestinians. Oh god, I
122:03 cleansed the Palestinians. Oh god, I can't believe we're doing this. Too
122:04 can't believe we're doing this. Too scared to read the whole thing. 99% of
122:07 scared to read the whole thing. 99% of the population think the way I do. Dude,
122:09 the population think the way I do. Dude, you are literally skitso.
122:12 you are literally skitso. Straight up. No one agrees with you. The
122:15 Straight up. No one agrees with you. The overwhelming majority of the population
122:17 overwhelming majority of the population is anti-Israel. And a scary percentage
122:19 is anti-Israel. And a scary percentage of the population is now also
122:21 of the population is now also anti-Semitic as well. They're not even
122:23 anti-Semitic as well. They're not even just anti-Israel. They are unimaginably
122:25 just anti-Israel. They are unimaginably anti-semitic, too. And a lot of dumb I
122:28 anti-semitic, too. And a lot of dumb I don't even know where they exist, but
122:31 don't even know where they exist, but they just straight up think that that's
122:32 they just straight up think that that's not the case. She's defo in Israel, and
122:34 not the case. She's defo in Israel, and in that case, she's right. Yeah. The
122:36 in that case, she's right. Yeah. The only place on the planet where that
122:38 only place on the planet where that position is the majority position is
122:40 position is the majority position is Israel. That's it. Most
122:42 Israel. That's it. Most >> of us though don't have the same
122:43 >> of us though don't have the same stamina. So, I'm just going to ask a
122:45 stamina. So, I'm just going to ask a last question off that point. Right.
122:47 last question off that point. Right. You're talking about parallels between
122:49 You're talking about parallels between the Israeli situation and the US
122:51 the Israeli situation and the US situation. You know, you're talking
122:53 situation. You know, you're talking about, you know, the idea that the
122:55 about, you know, the idea that the Israeli situation represents fascism
122:58 Israeli situation represents fascism facing facing resistance. The US
123:01 facing facing resistance. The US situation, obviously, lots of people on
123:03 situation, obviously, lots of people on the left consider Trump a fascist.
123:05 the left consider Trump a fascist. >> This is a very dark narrative. And one
123:09 >> This is a very dark narrative. And one of my recurring sort of themes over the
123:12 of my recurring sort of themes over the last month has been watching the left as
123:15 last month has been watching the left as an outsider and seeing it go dark in
123:18 an outsider and seeing it go dark in effect get really really pessimistic. So
123:21 effect get really really pessimistic. So I want to ask you about that about
123:24 I want to ask you about that about nihilism and despair. You have a
123:26 nihilism and despair. You have a worldview you know that has a very bleak
123:29 worldview you know that has a very bleak >> bro hit the NVE talking points by the
123:31 >> bro hit the NVE talking points by the way. Like even the nihilism,
123:34 way. Like even the nihilism, the last point is like even the
123:35 the last point is like even the nihilism. Like if I was transgender,
123:38 nihilism. Like if I was transgender, he'd be calling the authorities. You
123:40 he'd be calling the authorities. You know what I mean?
123:46 It's like uh dangerous violent rhetoric uh rhetoric, anti- capitalist sentiment,
123:48 uh rhetoric, anti- capitalist sentiment, anti-American sentiment, anti-Israel
123:50 anti-American sentiment, anti-Israel sentiment. Um, like
123:54 sentiment. Um, like this is this is straight up like the the
123:57 this is this is straight up like the the last thing that I I don't have, which we
124:01 last thing that I I don't have, which we didn't get into was like the dangerous
124:03 didn't get into was like the dangerous gender rhetoric, extremist rhetoric
124:05 gender rhetoric, extremist rhetoric around gender. And if he had hit that
124:07 around gender. And if he had hit that one, too, cuz nihilism he's talking
124:09 one, too, cuz nihilism he's talking about too. Wait, he dead ass thinks you
124:11 about too. Wait, he dead ass thinks you have a nihilistic worldview. No, I I
124:12 have a nihilistic worldview. No, I I don't think he he thinks I'm a n I don't
124:15 don't think he he thinks I'm a n I don't think he thinks that. I think he's just
124:16 think he thinks that. I think he's just asking that question because there is a
124:18 asking that question because there is a lot of nihilism out there. been of the
124:21 lot of nihilism out there. been of the US empire as a global force.
124:23 US empire as a global force. >> I wouldn't say that. Okay. So, tell me
124:25 >> I wouldn't say that. Okay. So, tell me tell me why tell me why you're
124:27 tell me why tell me why you're optimistic. Let's end there.
124:28 optimistic. Let's end there. >> Yes. So, what I constantly and I see
124:32 >> Yes. So, what I constantly and I see this as well. I think nihilism is a
124:34 this as well. I think nihilism is a major problem in in the increasingly
124:37 major problem in in the increasingly alienated, increasingly isolated uh
124:40 alienated, increasingly isolated uh permanently online generations that are
124:44 permanently online generations that are born into a universe where they just
124:46 born into a universe where they just have an iPad in front of them from the
124:48 have an iPad in front of them from the start, right?
124:50 start, right? and and that nihilism is born out of uh
124:53 and and that nihilism is born out of uh our lack of our inability to make
124:57 our lack of our inability to make changes, meaningful changes in the
124:59 changes, meaningful changes in the system. One example I will use is like
125:01 system. One example I will use is like the Black Lives Matter protest that took
125:03 the Black Lives Matter protest that took place. Black Lives Matter protest took
125:05 place. Black Lives Matter protest took place. A lot of people in the aftermath
125:06 place. A lot of people in the aftermath of these lockdowns were very frustrated.
125:08 of these lockdowns were very frustrated. They they they saw something that was so
125:11 They they they saw something that was so patently unjust and they wanted to make
125:13 patently unjust and they wanted to make demands. They did all of the right
125:14 demands. They did all of the right things. They protested some of those
125:16 things. They protested some of those protests actually with uh police
125:18 protests actually with uh police intervention. in some instances turned
125:20 intervention. in some instances turned even violent, right? Many people were
125:22 even violent, right? Many people were arrested as a consequence of this, but
125:25 arrested as a consequence of this, but the broad majority of the protests were
125:26 the broad majority of the protests were were started off peacefully and the the
125:29 were started off peacefully and the the argument was perfectly reasonable. We
125:32 argument was perfectly reasonable. We have to do something about uh the the
125:36 have to do something about uh the the unfair practice of policing in black and
125:38 unfair practice of policing in black and brown neighborhoods and and uh the
125:41 brown neighborhoods and and uh the systemic racism that exists within the
125:42 systemic racism that exists within the criminal justice system. And it's an
125:44 criminal justice system. And it's an argument that I also of course agree
125:46 argument that I also of course agree with. Now after that they also then
125:49 with. Now after that they also then turned around and voted. They voted for
125:51 turned around and voted. They voted for the Democratic party. Joe Biden won over
125:54 the Democratic party. Joe Biden won over Donald Trump. There was uh a period of
125:57 Donald Trump. There was uh a period of celebration but no change actually came.
126:01 celebration but no change actually came. The same structures of oppression
126:03 The same structures of oppression existed and the Democrats actually
126:05 existed and the Democrats actually presented an alternative. They spent
126:07 presented an alternative. They spent most of their time criticizing uh the
126:10 most of their time criticizing uh the the activist born defund the police
126:12 the activist born defund the police movement uh without trying to understand
126:14 movement uh without trying to understand exactly what that meant. Basically for
126:18 exactly what that meant. Basically for the political normie they did everything
126:21 the political normie they did everything by the book and Blake Nef this doubt
126:24 by the book and Blake Nef this doubt that Hassan [ __ ] interview is deranged.
126:26 that Hassan [ __ ] interview is deranged. Look look I'll just summarize it. The
126:27 Look look I'll just summarize it. The structural violence of equity. Yeah
126:29 structural violence of equity. Yeah that's the kind of term you hear 10
126:30 that's the kind of term you hear 10 minutes before a commasar shoots you in
126:31 minutes before a commasar shoots you in the head. Okay dude keep fantasizing.
126:34 the head. Okay dude keep fantasizing. Okay producer for the Charlie Kirk show.
126:36 Okay producer for the Charlie Kirk show. What am I supposed to do with this?
126:38 What am I supposed to do with this? Like, that's just your fantasy. You have
126:41 Like, that's just your fantasy. You have derived a fantastical narrative, a
126:44 derived a fantastical narrative, a hysterical narrative off of this
126:47 hysterical narrative off of this conversation. That's not my fault. How
126:50 conversation. That's not my fault. How am I supposed to literally be like,
126:52 am I supposed to literally be like, "Well, I guess you have a sincere fear
126:55 "Well, I guess you have a sincere fear here.
126:56 here. Go ahead, sir. Lock me up." Like, what
127:00 Go ahead, sir. Lock me up." Like, what do you mean? Change came. What do you
127:03 do you mean? Change came. What do you expect in the aftermath of that but
127:05 expect in the aftermath of that but nihilism? But my solution to that always
127:07 nihilism? But my solution to that always been uh has always been to maintain
127:09 been uh has always been to maintain revolutionary optimism. I tell people
127:11 revolutionary optimism. I tell people not to succumb to nihilism all the time.
127:13 not to succumb to nihilism all the time. I tell people to maintain revolutionary
127:15 I tell people to maintain revolutionary optimism. And the reason why I say that
127:18 optimism. And the reason why I say that is because I I myself understand how
127:22 is because I I myself understand how change takes place, how long it takes
127:25 change takes place, how long it takes for actual systemic change, seismic
127:28 for actual systemic change, seismic shifts uh to take place in society, even
127:31 shifts uh to take place in society, even in a democratic one that maybe is a
127:33 in a democratic one that maybe is a theoretical democracy but doesn't
127:34 theoretical democracy but doesn't actually abide by the democratic wishes
127:36 actually abide by the democratic wishes of the majority. I know that these
127:38 of the majority. I know that these things take time and one thing that I
127:41 things take time and one thing that I have seen that has given me tremendous
127:42 have seen that has given me tremendous confidence has been the attitude the
127:44 confidence has been the attitude the societal attitude on on the issue of
127:47 societal attitude on on the issue of Israel. I think the sheer brutality of
127:50 Israel. I think the sheer brutality of Israel's conquest over the Palestinians,
127:52 Israel's conquest over the Palestinians, what I uh and and the international
127:55 what I uh and and the international community now recognizes as a genocide
127:58 community now recognizes as a genocide has, I think, made people in spite of
128:02 has, I think, made people in spite of the the media sanitation, made people
128:05 the the media sanitation, made people reflect on that and made people
128:07 reflect on that and made people recognize the truth. So that actually
128:10 recognize the truth. So that actually gives me a little bit of hope that I
128:12 gives me a little bit of hope that I think people do have the capacity to see
128:15 think people do have the capacity to see uh exactly what's going on and and and
128:17 uh exactly what's going on and and and have uh have the capacity to recognize
128:19 have uh have the capacity to recognize right from wrong and to demand change no
128:21 right from wrong and to demand change no matter how uh impossible said change
128:25 matter how uh impossible said change feels.
128:26 feels. >> Hassan [ __ ] thanks so much for joining
128:27 >> Hassan [ __ ] thanks so much for joining me.
128:28 me. >> Thank you for having me.
128:29 >> Thank you for having me. >> You're very welcome.
128:32 >> You're very welcome. >> I got to I got to I got to talk to Ezra,
128:34 >> I got to I got to I got to talk to Ezra, bro. That's what I got to do. I got to
128:37 bro. That's what I got to do. I got to talk to Ezra. Give me Ezra. I'm going
128:40 talk to Ezra. Give me Ezra. I'm going after I'm going after all the New York
128:42 after I'm going after all the New York Times guys one by one. I thought I think
128:44 Times guys one by one. I thought I think Assan actually walked an impressive line
128:45 Assan actually walked an impressive line in this interview. No rage bay but
128:47 in this interview. No rage bay but politically advantageous considering the
128:48 politically advantageous considering the audience here. You can see the exact
128:49 audience here. You can see the exact moment Ross finds out you can't throw
128:50 moment Ross finds out you can't throw Hassan around like a chunky Reese
128:52 Hassan around like a chunky Reese Witherspoon. Wait, what? Insane
128:56 Witherspoon. Wait, what? Insane interview. Ross putting words in Han's
128:57 interview. Ross putting words in Han's mouth and basically I don't believe you
128:58 mouth and basically I don't believe you when you say you don't advocate for
128:59 when you say you don't advocate for violence is embarrassing. For those who
129:02 violence is embarrassing. For those who are not aware, the guy on the right is
129:03 are not aware, the guy on the right is 45 years old, only 10 years older than
129:04 45 years old, only 10 years older than Hassan Lamau. The hilarious way with
129:06 Hassan Lamau. The hilarious way with Hassan will describe his worldview in
129:08 Hassan will describe his worldview in this New York Time dude tries to reframe
129:09 this New York Time dude tries to reframe Assange Thurman by inserting as many
129:10 Assange Thurman by inserting as many violent semantics as possible and then
129:12 violent semantics as possible and then just ask Hassan if he agrees with it.
129:13 just ask Hassan if he agrees with it. This isn't the debate's agonizing series
129:15 This isn't the debate's agonizing series of attempted gotchas. The US is
129:17 of attempted gotchas. The US is literally in the middle of a farright
129:18 literally in the middle of a farright coup that will probably never be undone
129:20 coup that will probably never be undone and the centrist intellectuals think the
129:22 and the centrist intellectuals think the problem is socialist same as it ever
129:23 problem is socialist same as it ever was.
129:26 was. That's why the the right-wing worldview
129:28 That's why the the right-wing worldview is so funny because I mean this guy per
129:31 is so funny because I mean this guy per this guy perfectly describes it. The
129:33 this guy perfectly describes it. The audacity of that interview call the left
129:35 audacity of that interview call the left dark after saying he's okay with
129:36 dark after saying he's okay with systematic violence on women and denying
129:38 systematic violence on women and denying the genocide is actually wild. This is
129:40 the genocide is actually wild. This is why I have hope because there are so
129:42 why I have hope because there are so many liberals themselves who look at
129:45 many liberals themselves who look at what's going on right now and are
129:47 what's going on right now and are understandably disturbed, understandably
129:49 understandably disturbed, understandably terrified about the future and therefore
129:53 terrified about the future and therefore they're trying to make this a thing.
129:55 they're trying to make this a thing. Yeah. there. This is the takeaway. The
129:56 Yeah. there. This is the takeaway. The main takeaway from the New York Times
129:58 main takeaway from the New York Times thing is like the right-wingers are
129:59 thing is like the right-wingers are trying to use only this clip to to be
130:02 trying to use only this clip to to be like, well,
130:04 like, well, you know, there's a lot of liberals that
130:06 you know, there's a lot of liberals that are being shifted by this. I hope so.
130:08 are being shifted by this. I hope so. Ross, I think you lack the understanding
130:09 Ross, I think you lack the understanding of the term adventurous and it's meaning
130:10 of the term adventurous and it's meaning on left circles. You keep saying
130:11 on left circles. You keep saying adventurous if it's on the hunt meant as
130:14 adventurous if it's on the hunt meant as a compliment. Adventurism is frowned
130:15 a compliment. Adventurism is frowned upon by most marks seen as lack of
130:16 upon by most marks seen as lack of understanding of theory and discipline.
130:18 understanding of theory and discipline. Chatter said they showed their mom and
130:20 Chatter said they showed their mom and they were surprised that their mom liked
130:21 they were surprised that their mom liked you, Lamount. No, I think like liberals
130:24 you, Lamount. No, I think like liberals will uh look at that interview and not
130:28 will uh look at that interview and not they they won't leave that interview
130:29 they they won't leave that interview with like a very negative approach or a
130:31 with like a very negative approach or a negative taste in their mouth about like
130:34 negative taste in their mouth about like what I'm uh what I'm talking about. Mic
130:37 what I'm uh what I'm talking about. Mic drop. I want people to actually take a
130:39 drop. I want people to actually take a serious look at the violent structures
130:40 serious look at the violent structures that already exist from the point of the
130:41 that already exist from the point of the recipient is already experienced as a
130:43 recipient is already experienced as a direct form of violence. Pike is an
130:45 direct form of violence. Pike is an interesting guy, but he's pretty clearly
130:47 interesting guy, but he's pretty clearly trying to have his cake and eat it too.
130:48 trying to have his cake and eat it too. saying inflammatory radical things while
130:49 saying inflammatory radical things while trying to sidestep the culture these
130:51 trying to sidestep the culture these things produce by saying it was always
130:52 things produce by saying it was always there or some such thing seems to me to
130:54 there or some such thing seems to me to be an enormous copout. Frankly, in an
130:56 be an enormous copout. Frankly, in an era of such profound inertia, who hasn't
130:58 era of such profound inertia, who hasn't entertained the thought? What leverage
131:00 entertained the thought? What leverage is required to affect meaningful change?
131:01 is required to affect meaningful change? We acknowledge that violence is not
131:03 We acknowledge that violence is not merely a social construct, but a
131:04 merely a social construct, but a fundamental observable element of
131:05 fundamental observable element of nature, a force capable of unimaginable
131:07 nature, a force capable of unimaginable cruelty. Yet, as a society, we are bound
131:09 cruelty. Yet, as a society, we are bound by principle, and we rightly denounce
131:11 by principle, and we rightly denounce it. The irony is that the true
131:12 it. The irony is that the true glorification of force often comes from
131:13 glorification of force often comes from those in power. After all, Trump has
131:15 those in power. After all, Trump has explicitly equated fear as the ultimate
131:17 explicitly equated fear as the ultimate source of power. While figures like a
131:18 source of power. While figures like a samper may occasionally push boundaries
131:20 samper may occasionally push boundaries in their rhetoric, their honesty is a
131:21 in their rhetoric, their honesty is a vital counterpoint to the political
131:22 vital counterpoint to the political hypocrisy. Let us remember that
131:24 hypocrisy. Let us remember that revolution, which need not be violent,
131:26 revolution, which need not be violent, is sometimes a necessary catalyst. The
131:28 is sometimes a necessary catalyst. The collective task of discerning that
131:29 collective task of discerning that moment falls to all of us. This got to
131:32 moment falls to all of us. This got to be chatbt, right? I feel like it's a
131:34 be chatbt, right? I feel like it's a it's a chatbt moment, maybe. I like
131:36 it's a chatbt moment, maybe. I like Parker, though. I think he has a
131:37 Parker, though. I think he has a responsibility to be more careful with
131:38 responsibility to be more careful with his rhetoric. I think the foolishness
131:39 his rhetoric. I think the foolishness that he occasionally exhibits sometimes
131:40 that he occasionally exhibits sometimes with live stream reform. I'm not sure it
131:42 with live stream reform. I'm not sure it brings out the best in anyone. Whatever
131:43 brings out the best in anyone. Whatever his faults, I think [ __ ] bears witness
131:44 his faults, I think [ __ ] bears witness to the lack of a coherent sense of
131:45 to the lack of a coherent sense of community in our society. That is
131:47 community in our society. That is something the far left is attempting to
131:48 something the far left is attempting to address. While the center seems to
131:49 address. While the center seems to satisfy with the same old, same old
131:51 satisfy with the same old, same old liberalism. They don't see that is what
131:54 liberalism. They don't see that is what brought us Trump, but [ __ ] does. He's
131:56 brought us Trump, but [ __ ] does. He's ahead of the game in most aspects.
131:58 ahead of the game in most aspects. Narcissistic young influencers who
131:59 Narcissistic young influencers who believe that every instantly conceived
132:01 believe that every instantly conceived opinion is worth the attention of
132:02 opinion is worth the attention of thousands of the products of our poor
132:03 thousands of the products of our poor discourse platforms. Interesting how we
132:05 discourse platforms. Interesting how we can't have a similar discussion about
132:06 can't have a similar discussion about Charlie Kirk's views. And not just
132:08 Charlie Kirk's views. And not just because of his murder, but because the
132:08 because of his murder, but because the right in his Russia canonized Kirk has
132:10 right in his Russia canonized Kirk has to ignore the major racism and sexism
132:12 to ignore the major racism and sexism advocated. Why is a liberal even a
132:13 advocated. Why is a liberal even a Marxist revolution to be feared, but
132:14 Marxist revolution to be feared, but beliefs that have held women back for
132:16 beliefs that have held women back for thousand years left minorities in fear
132:17 thousand years left minorities in fear or celebrated? God forbid we advocate
132:19 or celebrated? God forbid we advocate for a living wage or reasonable
132:20 for a living wage or reasonable apartment rents. But if you want to
132:22 apartment rents. But if you want to promote lynching or celebrate women
132:24 promote lynching or celebrate women being forced back in the kitchen, why
132:25 being forced back in the kitchen, why you're a hero worthy of comparison to
132:27 you're a hero worthy of comparison to Jesus himself? Let's pause and reflect
132:28 Jesus himself? Let's pause and reflect on the fact that Jesus was pretty much
132:29 on the fact that Jesus was pretty much to the left of Pike here. Pike
132:32 to the left of Pike here. Pike proclaiming the need to feed the hungry,
132:34 proclaiming the need to feed the hungry, house the homeless, and forgive our
132:35 house the homeless, and forgive our enemies. But sure, clearly all of our
132:37 enemies. But sure, clearly all of our problems are uh due to the excess of
132:39 problems are uh due to the excess of liberals, right? Jesus would want mass
132:40 liberals, right? Jesus would want mass ice stormtroopers in our neighborhoods.
132:42 ice stormtroopers in our neighborhoods. Or maybe the real hypocrites are those
132:43 Or maybe the real hypocrites are those who pretend to be Christians. Maybe the
132:45 who pretend to be Christians. Maybe the real messengers are those pretend to be
132:46 real messengers are those pretend to be secular Marxists. Maybe the rich aren't
132:48 secular Marxists. Maybe the rich aren't supposed to be our models. What the
132:50 supposed to be our models. What the brother, the New York Times comment
132:53 brother, the New York Times comment section is writing revolutionary pros.
132:57 section is writing revolutionary pros. It's like, I didn't realize. Amazing.
133:00 It's like, I didn't realize. Amazing. This is the first time I've seen an
133:00 This is the first time I've seen an actual Marxist be given even a second of
133:02 actual Marxist be given even a second of time in a newspaper that lately seems to
133:03 time in a newspaper that lately seems to spend more and more time in articles
133:04 spend more and more time in articles that make fascism seem normal. If people
133:06 that make fascism seem normal. If people heard what actual Marxists and
133:07 heard what actual Marxists and anti-imperialists had to say, they might
133:08 anti-imperialists had to say, they might actually find themselves agreeing with
133:10 actually find themselves agreeing with us, which I have to assume is why we are
133:12 us, which I have to assume is why we are so rarely allowed to speak in this
133:13 so rarely allowed to speak in this space. I sincerely appreciate doubt that
133:14 space. I sincerely appreciate doubt that allowing this rare glimpse of a
133:15 allowing this rare glimpse of a different world. People like this guy
133:17 different world. People like this guy cracks me up. Free schools, free
133:18 cracks me up. Free schools, free healthcare, free everything sounds
133:19 healthcare, free everything sounds fantastic. Problem is, someone has to
133:20 fantastic. Problem is, someone has to pay. Pay the teachers, pay the doctors.
133:22 pay. Pay the teachers, pay the doctors. I guess this is what you get when you
133:23 I guess this is what you get when you sit in front of a computer for seven
133:25 sit in front of a computer for seven hours a day. Yeah, Don didn't like it.
133:28 hours a day. Yeah, Don didn't like it. Keep this level of announcement of
133:29 Keep this level of announcement of Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump, Pete Hexit,
133:30 Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump, Pete Hexit, JD Vance, Steven Crowder, Nick Fuentes,
133:32 JD Vance, Steven Crowder, Nick Fuentes, Matt Walsh, Candace Owens, Stucker Ross
133:33 Matt Walsh, Candace Owens, Stucker Ross and Rush Limbbo, Jesse Waters, and Greg
133:34 and Rush Limbbo, Jesse Waters, and Greg Gutfeld. Why does the New York Times
133:36 Gutfeld. Why does the New York Times insist on such an inflammatory title of
133:37 insist on such an inflammatory title of the thoughtful informed discussion by
133:38 the thoughtful informed discussion by Assan? The implication is that he's
133:40 Assan? The implication is that he's inciting violence when he's talking
133:41 inciting violence when he's talking about the violence of our current system
133:42 about the violence of our current system and why people are so upset and that
133:44 and why people are so upset and that there is way out the weaponization of
133:46 there is way out the weaponization of the government and the media by the
133:47 the government and the media by the Trump administration is real and
133:48 Trump administration is real and threatening and we need 100s more picars
133:51 threatening and we need 100s more picars who clearly say individual violence is
133:53 who clearly say individual violence is wrong and collective action is needed to
133:55 wrong and collective action is needed to move forward move towards fairer
133:57 move forward move towards fairer society. What is going on? Asan [ __ ]
134:01 society. What is going on? Asan [ __ ] speaks word salad. He appears to be
134:02 speaks word salad. He appears to be making a very good living by doing so.
134:04 making a very good living by doing so. He's just another guy on the web making
134:05 He's just another guy on the web making a living by talking and talking and
134:07 a living by talking and talking and talking.
134:08 talking. That's my favorite type of guy who's
134:10 That's my favorite type of guy who's like, "Man, this guy's a real yapper."
134:12 like, "Man, this guy's a real yapper." Okay, that's all he does. It's like,
134:14 Okay, that's all he does. It's like, okay, who the do you think Ross Doubt
134:17 okay, who the do you think Ross Doubt is? That that he's doing the same I've
134:19 is? That that he's doing the same I've been doing.
134:21 been doing. What is this? To be a socialist, to
134:22 What is this? To be a socialist, to understand how hollow those symbols are
134:24 understand how hollow those symbols are without a commitment to those empowered
134:25 without a commitment to those empowered little represent too much wealth is
134:26 little represent too much wealth is conscious and too few hands. And now
134:28 conscious and too few hands. And now those hands are pulling the strings of a
134:29 those hands are pulling the strings of a fascist administration. Our democracies
134:30 fascist administration. Our democracies dying while they get rich. They are the
134:32 dying while they get rich. They are the enemy. The sooner you accept that, the
134:33 enemy. The sooner you accept that, the sooner we can start fighting in earnest.
134:36 sooner we can start fighting in earnest. Oh my god.
134:47 What is happening? New York Times comment section being
134:49 New York Times comment section being like we must do a we must
134:52 like we must do a we must we must engage in agitative propaganda
134:54 we must engage in agitative propaganda in our lives in order to ferment a
134:56 in our lives in order to ferment a revolutionary sentiment in the in the
134:59 revolutionary sentiment in the in the proletarian now not tomorrow but now. We
135:03 proletarian now not tomorrow but now. We must not wait.
135:05 must not wait. I am taking action immediately.
135:08 I am taking action immediately. This pen lecture is full of himself.
135:12 This pen lecture is full of himself. I listened to the first 20 minutes or so
135:13 I listened to the first 20 minutes or so Ross Doued stopping at the point where
135:15 Ross Doued stopping at the point where he becomes clear he has no understanding
135:16 he becomes clear he has no understanding of politics at all. Senior lecturer in
135:18 of politics at all. Senior lecturer in political science at pen. And to be
135:20 political science at pen. And to be clear, it's not that Doued was really
135:21 clear, it's not that Doued was really tough, let alone unfair in the
135:22 tough, let alone unfair in the interview. You just let [ __ ] talk and
135:23 interview. You just let [ __ ] talk and in talking he has no understanding of
135:25 in talking he has no understanding of politics at all. Yeah. I mean, yeah,
135:27 politics at all. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're gonna if you have
135:31 you're gonna if you have no Oh. Barry Wise to be named
135:32 no Oh. Barry Wise to be named editor-inchief of CBS News. So, not just
135:35 editor-inchief of CBS News. So, not just a boss, the boss. H
135:46 Oh, this is my favorite type of Oh. Oh, he hates Trump because of populism.
135:49 he hates Trump because of populism. These guys love talking about populism.
135:52 These guys love talking about populism. That's the real That's the real issue is
135:54 That's the real That's the real issue is the is the populism. That way you can
135:56 the is the populism. That way you can say the extreme left is populist and
135:59 say the extreme left is populist and they're wrong and the extreme right is
136:00 they're wrong and the extreme right is populist and they're wrong. Notes from
136:02 populist and they're wrong. Notes from the middle ground. Exactly.
136:06 the middle ground. Exactly. Oh, these guys are these guys are
136:08 Oh, these guys are these guys are awesome because their ideology has been
136:10 awesome because their ideology has been such a spectacular failure and it has
136:14 such a spectacular failure and it has unironically led to the development of a
136:18 unironically led to the development of a a fascist movement not only in this
136:21 a fascist movement not only in this country but all around the world. Like
136:23 country but all around the world. Like these guys have created an environment
136:25 these guys have created an environment for fascism to thrive in and now they
136:27 for fascism to thrive in and now they just have to sit there and still yell at
136:29 just have to sit there and still yell at the left and be like, "Well, the left is
136:31 the left and be like, "Well, the left is the left is radical, too." They're also
136:34 the left is radical, too." They're also radical, too. I promise this is what
136:36 radical, too. I promise this is what you're doing to the New York Times
136:37 you're doing to the New York Times audience. I know exactly what this clip
136:38 audience. I know exactly what this clip is. I knew
136:39 is. I knew >> you will be brainwashed.
136:40 >> you will be brainwashed. >> Me, America's son. H That will be a
136:45 >> Me, America's son. H That will be a challenge.
136:48 challenge. >> You bet.
136:49 >> You bet. >> I knew this was
136:50 >> I knew this was >> Are all those in league with
136:52 >> Are all those in league with imperialism? the bureaucrats, the big
136:55 imperialism? the bureaucrats, the big landlord class and the reactionary
136:56 landlord class and the reactionary section of the intelligencia attached to
136:58 section of the intelligencia attached to them.
137:00 them. New York Times New York Times comment
137:02 New York Times New York Times comment section is is the vanguard is happening.
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