The discussion centers on the "high performer trap," emphasizing that true high performance, particularly in trading, stems from mastering fundamental, consistent tasks rather than overcomplicating strategies or solely relying on external validation and identity.
Mind Map
Click to expand
Click to explore the full interactive mind map • Zoom, pan, and navigate
work that they've done, you know,
leading up to it that allows them to
pull it off. So, for me, it's those kind
of simple processes that most traders,
well, a lot of traders I will say that
I've worked with didn't have those
basics dialed in. Um, and they were
trying to solve bigger challenges in
deviating from their trading plan. But
until they had actually put those
building blocks in place, it's hard to
solve the bigger issue. um because
you're missing some of the kind of
standard basic stuff that will carry
that will be the foundation for high performance.
performance.
>> We do have a special guest today uh one
of my favorite performance coaches
Kred Shehi Kelly. Uh she is with us and
we want to have a chat about a
conversation that is really passionate.
It's a passion for me. the psychology of
the you know high performance and peak
performance is really as I mentioned in
the chat room is a topic that I'm very
uh you know interested in how to be in
always the peak performance mindset
physically you know mentally and
everything uh I recently started a
podcast I had a conversation with yeah
Peter I had a conversation with one of
the Canadian Olympians
>> and it was a great conversation because
Olympians are also very similar to us
they are always in the simulator and
then they have to perform and no matter
how good they are in a simulator when
they perform everything matters in that
uh you know live trading or live action
that they're doing. But mentally is a
very very big uh challenge because a lot
of time high performance you know they
uh really connect their identity to
their performance and that can be a
really big impact on their uh mental
health and obviously later physical.
That's why a lot of high performers are
you know struggling with addiction like
Diego Maradona was one of the best
football player in the world you know
what happens and you know and it just
doesn't have to be even in world class
it could be anywhere like my father
struggled with addiction I struggled
with addiction and I'm a high performer
as well and if I can't perform the
failure or just not uh you know
disappointing myself puts a lot of
pressure on my mind and obviously on my
body. So, we want to have that
conversation with Cred. Cred, thanks for
joining us. You're looking great.
>> Thanks for having me, Andrew. I'm super
excited for this conversation,
especially in light of your new podcast.
Um, yeah, I'm really interested to hear
your thoughts on it. So, um, yeah,
thanks for having me on today.
>> Yeah, of course. Tell us about I think
the topic that you wanted to
conversation again, we're very
interested is about the high
performance, you know, identity. How
they connect this, you know, with their
and how can control themselves Exactly.
So what I wanted to talk about was
something that I've seen trip up a lot
of traders. So it's, you know, in
relation to high performance, it applies
to high performers from every domain,
but specifically it's something that I
keep seeing again and again with traders
and traders also who've not quite
reached the high performance level. You
know, they might not be making the money
that they want to make yet, but they
have the mindset of setting out to be
exceptional, but there's something that
often trips this type of person up. And
so I thought it'd be helpful to discuss
it and help people to understand if it's
something that a trap that they're
falling into. So and then what they can
do to overcome it. So I'm calling it the
high performer trap. And it's basically
exactly as you said where you attach
your identity to um the identity of the
high performer rather than just focusing
on the tasks that will take you to the
level of high performance. So it's kind
of like a difference between attaching
your ego from the psychology sense to an
identity and just focusing on tasks. And
so to make this a bit more concrete,
what I see happen is that a lot of
traders overestimate the complexity
required to reach a high performance
level, but they underestimate the amount
of consistency required. So, it's
actually really more about doing the
boring consistent tasks repeatedly and
sticking to that for the long haul more
so than trying to, you know, have really
complex strategies or have one thing
that I see a lot of people try and rely
on is tech that helps them uh, you know,
measure their heart rate variability or
all of these different kind of tech
things that feed into high performance.
But if you don't have the basics right
and if you're not kind of covering those
bases and just doing those things
consistently, all of those additional um
resources for high performance won't
really do anything. So I guess what I'd
love to open up the conversation with
you about is just understanding
especially because you're you know high
performing in trading business and in um
you know in your sporting like mountain
climbing all of that. What's your take
on the that idea of the boring
consistent things just done repeatedly
over time? The stuff that doesn't really
light up anyone's identity or ego but
just requires grit. Um would you find
that that's something that you've had to
do in each of those domains in order to
reach high performance or what would
your take on it be
>> for trading? Uh one thing that uh for
for me trading is that is really I'm
enjoying this video game nature of day
trading. It's like sol solving a puzzle.
I wake up every morning and sometimes
when I miss trading is I'm sad that I
cannot come to play a video game. It's
really a game has been a game gamified
activity for me. Of course, money is uh
important. Not anymore. At the
beginning, it was not, but for me like
$5,000 up and down in the in during that
day doesn't really change my life. But
I'm super excited to come to trade
because I think it's really fun. I made
it really fun for me like video game and
of course the community like I love to
come and see the you know thousand
members that we have they're all friends
um and this is a conversation that I had
with the Olympian uh that I had in
Canada and she said she's also a coach
now she's retired and she said that you
have to make it like a game rather than
a competition and you have to just enjoy
the process of uh you know this uh you
know playing every single day. um for
for climbing that you mentioned that I
think high altitude climbing is you know
a high performance task but again the
climbers the mountaineers over time they
know that the expedition every single
day is fun is not about the summit it's
about the journey is about the views
about meeting new people about going to
cool places in the world rather than
just being on the summit and that summit photo
photo
>> so it's focusing on the process like
enjoying the process of what you have to
do daily in order to achieve the
outcome. Um, yeah, that that makes a lot
of sense. And one thing that I've seen
with traders particularly is that often
people come into trading when they've
been successful in other areas. So,
they've had, you know, a corporate
career and then they want to transition
out of that into trading. They want more
autonomy, whatever it is, or they've
come from maybe the military or sales or
whatever it is. And what it takes to be
successful in those arenas is different
to what it takes to be successful in
trading. Because in many arenas, the
harder you work, the more effort you put
in, the more time on the clock, you
know, the better that or the higher your
performance will be and the better
results you'll get. But in trading, it's
not necessarily about um doing all of
the things or working 24/7, being at the
markets 247,
um reading all the books, all of that.
It's about being strategic in how you
operate. They're working smarter instead
of harder. And so what I see that trips
people up with this high performer trap
is that they they work really hard, but
they're working on the wrong things. And
so they're not actually being efficient
with their time and their energy. And
then that feeds into if they're not
seeing progress because of that, it
feeds into a sense of failing or not
being enough. Um, and actually the fix
is to understand that trading is an
entity unto itself and what's required
to be successful. and trading is
slightly different to what's required to
be successful in those other arenas. And
so it really is about figuring out the
simple straightforward things that you
just need to do repeatedly over time in
order to be successful and releasing
yourself from that attachment to wanting
to be seen as a high performer or um you
know trying to outwork everybody else so
that you can get the results that you
want. I don't know if you see that as
well with traders or how does that land
with you?
>> Yeah, I do. I you know as you mentioned
that there's a lot of high performers
are actually being attracted to trading
because it's it's a challenge. It's a
challenge and usually you know in our
community I've seen you know thousands
of our members in person and they're
coming to Vancouver you've seen them and
[clears throat] they're all successful
in other fields doctors businessmen you
know entrepreneurs and you know
mid-career people and they all you know
come to that however there is one big
difference that uh they will be shocked
most of them is that in business in
career in other fields your success
depends on external
interactions, other people, colleagues,
bosses, you know, employees, but in
trading is all you and you have to
accept all the decision. And that's
usually the thing that people, you know,
get shocked. Like we have the military
people Mike and John I mean when they
are in a battle it's a group work the
orders that come from the top and you
know logistics and everything but in
trading Mike have to make the decision
himself and has to carry the
consequences himself and that's
something that it takes some time for
them to adjust. Uh another thing is that
uh they have to accept that the market
is unpredictable and the mistakes that
they're making is not the losses that
they're having is not because of the
mistakes that they're taking
necessarily. A lot of time a very good
system have 50% you know losses and it's
just nature of the probability um and
that they struggle a lot. I had one
trader that he was air traffic
controller and then he said I'm coming
after 25 years mindset of no mistake.
Mistake means disaster and he just
couldn't figure out this fact that the
market is random and 50% of the time
you're wrong. You're you're a loss but
that doesn't mean that you are wrong.
>> Exactly. I think that's one of the
biggest uh challenges that I see with
traders is that inability to accept a
loss. And again it comes back to that
identity. If you've developed your whole
identity over your whole life of being
someone who succeeds in sport, who
succeeds in you know school, college,
whatever career you have before you come
to trading and then suddenly you have to
accept losses and completely switch your
thinking and understand that that's part
of the game and you know that's how you
ultimately reach success. It's a very
hard mindset shift to make. So what I
always recommend to people who might be
struggling with this, you know, high
achiever in one area and then moving
into an area where that just that
framework doesn't hold anymore.
Something that or some simple tasks that
people can do to focus more on the
execution of the actions that are going
to lead to high performance are just
really simple things like tracking your
sleep, um raising your physical,
emotional, and mental state before you
go into the market. So, you already kind
of are checking in with yourself and
have an idea of what state you're in
psychologically before you enter the
market. And sometimes you can catch if
you're not feeling right for whatever
reason, um it might prevent you from
making big mistakes or deviating from
your plan in that session. Other things
are just refining your review. So, a lot
of high achievers and people who are
really striving to be that high
performance trader, something that they
do is they make a really complex
post-trading review process and then
it's so complex and there's so much data
in it that they actually just don't do
it. They don't track it because it's
overwhelming. So, they set out with
great intentions, but then they don't
actually track the data over time and so
the review is kind of meaningless for
them. So really slimming that down,
making it super simple and then tracking
the data religiously every single day
until you start to see patterns in, you
know, um how your emotions are impacting
your execution of your trades. Um maybe
the exact part of the trade that you
need to focus on from a psychology
perspective. Maybe it's jumping out of
trades too soon or not taking A+ setups
and then just laser focusing in on that.
So these simple kind of repetitive tasks
are the things that actually over time
give you real insight into how you're
trading into your own performance and
allow you to see where you can intervene
then to get the biggest uplift in your
performance. So it's usually the simple
things done repeatedly over time that
will actually lift everything across the
board. It's the same with athletes like
you know I've worked with a lot of elite
sports teams and it's say the kicker on
a rugby team staying back after practice
just kicking and kicking and doing it
themselves repeatedly in order to
improve that skill. It's a boring task.
It's not something that anyone is giving
them credit for. But then when they go
into a championship match and it's the
deciding factor if they win the game or
not, you know, comes down to a final
kick and they can pull it off. it's
because of all that boring consistent
work that they've done, you know,
leading up to it that allows them to
pull it off. So, for me, it's those kind
of simple processes that most traders,
well, a lot of traders I will say that
I've worked with didn't have those
basics dialed in. Um, and they were
trying to solve bigger challenges in
deviating from their trading plan. But
until they had actually put those
building blocks in place, it's hard to
solve the bigger issue. um because
you're missing some of the kind of
standard basic stuff that will carry
that will be the foundation for high performance.
performance.
>> What do what do you suggest uh tracking?
Like I started after I got an Apple
Watch, I started tracking my uh sleep
and uh it's how fast it's I'm so
fascinated how
bad I'm sleeping after I started
tracking it. And uh I haven't done much
to improve it but just tracking it it's
in back of my mind that you got to
improve the sleep like you know I I
thought I'm sleeping like 8 n hours but
I'm actually sleeping in average 6 hours
and for someone like me that I'm very
active this is really bad and then I
realized that the you know the nights
that I'm sleeping longer I'm actually
performing better in trading and in
running. Another thing that you know I
had a conversation with this Olympian
and she said something really
fascinating. She said that the re there
are research that if you are a little
bit uh dehydrated your cognitive ability
is down 10%. And they have measured it
and I didn't know that like uh even the
water like proper hydration
impacts the cognitive ability and
trading is all about finding puzzles and
cognitive ability. How do you what are
they you think they should track and how
they make this correlation because it's
also really hard to make the correlation.
correlation.
>> So I love that you're saying that
they're the exact kind of things that
I'm talking about and that hydration one
is so important. So um I think sleep and
sleep hydration like your physical
well-being um is probably paramount and
people maybe you know if you're an
athlete that makes sense because
obviously it's a physical uh game. It's
a physical execution of skill. Um, but
in trading it's equally as important and
I think sleep is the absolute most
critical one. So if somebody comes and
they want to work on confidence or they
say I'm jumping out of trades too soon,
but they're sleeping like five six hours
a night. Usually that's where we'll
start working first because um it's
interesting that you say 6 hours. I'm
going to butcher the explanation of
this, but there's two different studies
that basically combine together suggests
that if you get only six hours or less
uh sleep a night repeatedly, um over
time, I think it's about over about
a week or slightly longer, maybe it was
10 days, you actually start operating as
if you're um impaired as if you were
under the influence of alcohol. So I,
you know, it's a bit more uh I'm not
really explaining that precisely, but it
is in research and I've looked it up
because it's it's something that I've
looked into. So basically, if you're
sleeping six hours or less a night over
a long period of time, it's like you're,
you know, um over the driving limit for
alcohol and you're actually getting in
front of your computer screen and you're
executing trades and you're risking
money under that level of um cognitive
stress. So that's why it's not just a
nice to have well-being side of things
to say sleep is really important. It's
actually critical for you to be able to
execute cognitively at the level that
you need to. And the same with the
hydration. So um at a more complex level
there's an exercise that I do with
traders when I start working with them
onetoone um or my course actually and
they they map out all of the different
factors that impact performance in any
way under different headings. So under
the physical heading, under the
psychology, you know, mental, emotional
heading, um tactical skill, and then
lifestyle. And so in lifestyle, we'd be
putting things like hydration, um sleep,
even downtime, you know, all of these
different things that if you were doing
all of these things optimally would
produce peak trading performance, but
that's a little bit of a complex um
exercise. So even as a quick takeaway,
what I would recommend as an absolute
baseline for everyone to track would be
your hours of sleep the night before you
trade and do it in a in a spreadsheet.
Like so I mean boring actually tracking
the data every day. Um the amount of
sleep that you got last night, the your
physical rating out of 10. So let's say
you've you're suffering with I don't
know a cold or something. Your physical
rating is probably going to be lower. Um
your mental so your mental sharpness out
of 10 and your emotional state out of
10. And then you give yourself an
average as well, you know, of all of
those out of 10. And if you're already
seeing that for whatever reason you're
four out of 10 that day, that's a strong
indicator that maybe you should sit out
of trading that day. You should sit out
of the market. Um or let's say that
you're good physically and mentally, but
emotionally you're a two and you know
that your tendency is to revenge trade
or um go past your daily loss limit when
you're feeling emotionally triggered,
then you'll know to watch out for that
when you're trading. So, I would track
those things and then something simple
like a performance goal. Um, we've
talked about this a lot of times. So,
setting a goal that's focused on the
execution of your plan rather than the
outcome. So, it could be 80% or more of
all trades taken fit my setup criteria
from my um trade book. And just tracking
those simple things like just those
things. So, one key performance goal,
sleep, and that PEM's rating every
single day religiously. Over time,
you'll start to see a pattern. So, if
you're somebody that doesn't get enough
sleep, you'll likely see that on the
nights that you know you got, say, 6
hours or less that you tend to um take
setups that don't fit your criteria. And
you'll start to see correlations in the
data. So it's even those like few
factors if you were to track them over
time that will help you to identify
exactly what's happening in your trading
and why. And so in that situation
someone might come and say I've got a
big problem on the psychology side of
things. You know I just can't I'm not
I'm being impatient. I can't wait for my
setups to appear. I'm jumping into
trades that aren't quality trades. But
the solution will be sleep. So rather
than doing anything on affirmations or
visualization or anything like that, the
first protocol will be to address the
sleep. So that's how that you know
brings us back to that idea of the high
performer trap and trying to make
everything complex and thinking that the
solution is always some complex solution
that requires a lot of time and effort.
Sometimes it's actually just going back
to basics, getting the sleep, tracking
the pens, tracking the performance goal
and and that alone can shift things so
that you find that if you get more
sleep, you're taking more quality setups
and then obviously over time you're
going to be more profitable.
>> Yeah. I mean uh it's uh even even the
overeating is a consequence of lack of
asleep or a lot of other you know not
recovering properly because of the
cortisol level in the body and the body
you know always in the stress modes and
uh it's really fascinating it's really
easy to track uh especially with the you
know this technology like Apple watch
orings and stuff is really I love my
Apple watch it's really nice beautiful
performance and it can do track and
everything and it's quite accurate
actually when I was in Nepal and I was
going through the higher elevation is
really accurately was tracking my uh
oxygen level and breathing noises that I
had. So in the higher elevation I was
fascinating that how can you get my
breathing in my Apple Watch I don't know
how they do that but you know as I was
going through the elevation 5,000 6,000
meter it was telling me that your
breathing is going higher and higher
because your body is under stress for
oxygen is really nice to do that. you
did have a program or some sort of a
package if if I'm not mistaken that how
people track it and did you have that
did you have something
>> it's so it's part of my um so I have a a
signature program so it's my system it's
my methodology of how I help people um
execute their trades better so you know
the biggest challenge psychology side of
things is people not doing what they
know they should be doing so I have a go
deep to level up your trading is my
system that takes people right through
all of the
uh tasks and you know exercises to focus
on in order to build really strong
psychological resilience in the markets
and execute your trades. So that that
exercise that I'm talking about and that
tracking thing is part of it. They're
actually the first two modules is
focused fully on doing a whole audit of
all of the things that impact your
performance like you know down to sleep
down to um you know having a social life
whatever it is that that fills you up
with uh energy and helps you execute
better in the market. There's that
exercise and then we go into really
in-depth goal setting and part of that
is actually setting up a tracking system
for yourself. So, it's really not, you
know, you're talking about really, um,
great technology there, but before we
ever get to that, um, you know, before
you ever get to the sophisticated
journaling tools or any of that from the
psychology side of things, just a simple
spreadsheet and tracking some data can
make a massive difference to people. So,
that's kind of what we focus on. We set
that foundation before we ever go near
looking at subconscious beliefs and how
they're impacting your execution in the
market. We get that baseline stuff
dialed in. So that's probably what
you're talking about, I'd imagine.
>> Yeah, I think so. I think um I know a
few people working with you and uh since
started working with you, they've
changed their life. Like uh like Megan,
for example, is one of them. I know
she's working with you. And then Megan
is now a trail runner. She's uh you
know, she's you know, improving in her
life. And I'm fascinating following her
and uh you know, I know that uh the
changes when she's been working with you
for some time. I think uh um the trading being
being
aware of all of these help a lot of
people in different aspect of life even
if you track you all of these and your
trading doesn't improve you might
actually improve your life much better
and I've seen a lot of people around me
that's uh trading help them to become
much better like Mike for example now is
running marathon Peter did the marathon
you know Megan is a trade runner Thor
for example one of our moderators
Have you seen him recently? He's like a
terminator or like he has changed you
know lost a lot of weight and so feel
running and everything and these are the
people that it's obvious that this
process of becoming better trader have
helped them in uh life and uh uh other
aspects. So tracking them is is a good
thing not only for training for everything.
everything.
>> 100%. Like that's you know a lot of
people actually even in feedback from my
program it's definitely not something
that I put out there as marketing
because it's it's not something I can
stand over and say it'll definitely
happen. But the system that I teach is
it comes from sports psychology as well.
So like it's applicable in sport. It's
applicable pretty much across the board
in any high performance domain. But
through going through that type of um
self-improvement with a very specific
goal in mind, it does force you to look
at what's holding you back. Like what
are the deep blockers within you that
are holding you back from achieving your
goals? Um where can you bring more
consistency to your preparation to your
review so that you can get more out of
the hours that you spend on trading or
on your sport or whatever it is. So, I
do think that um yeah, the process of
becoming better and becoming a high
performer in any arena does force you to
become a different person and in a
positive way. Um and I definitely can't
take credit for Megan's um amazing trail
running and all of that, but I do, you
know, I would agree that what you're
saying, you're seeing that in the BBT um
leaders, moderators, and all of that. as
they're getting more consistent, more
refined, they're performing better in
their trading, it's carrying over to
other areas of their life because you
can't be one person in trading and then
a different person outside in other
areas of your life. It just doesn't work
like that. Like much as we would like to
be able to completely compartmentalize
the person and the performer, there's
only a certain amount really that or a
certain extent that you can do that to.
So, um, trading is probably one of the
harshest arenas where you go in and you
think that you're just going in to learn
a strategy and to become profitable and
you'll make some money. And actually, it
becomes the cleanest, clearest mirror as
to everything that's holding you back in
your life and as a person. And then it
shows you these opportunities to upgrade
your thinking, your behaviors, um, you
know, your knowledge in so that you can
perform better in the market. But in
doing so, then you actually become this
whole different higher version of
yourself. And I've seen that again and
again. And I'm not talking about in just
traders that have worked with me. I mean
traders that are doing it themselves,
working with other people. Anyone who's
had to go through that process of
leveling up in all of these different
areas, becomes a different person in the
process. Um, and I think it's really
rewarding. It does definitely carry
into, you know, personal lives, into
fitness, um, and into overall
fulfillment. I think would you agree
with that?
>> Yeah, I agree. They say there's a saying
that they said that's how you do
anything. That's how you do everything.
Uh um so I have a question actually from
a couple of members. It's a pretty much
the same question. So Amy is asking like
uh you know she's been trading uh for
like trying to trade for about a year
and a half and uh uh she puts her career
on hold to some extent and uh you know
the process of learning to be wrong is
exhausting for her and what advice would
you offer for traders who are at a bar
stage that they were wondering that even
if trading is for them they're another
question that was very similar was that
uh you know how can you stop blaming
yourself that I'm constantly blaming
myself. Oh, I shouldn't have done that
and then so maybe there are two
questions but a lot of people wonder
that okay I'm not getting results I'm
doing all of these stuff
how do I know that it's not for me and I
should stop.
>> So I would say
try everything on the psychology side
before you give up. Obviously, you know,
I don't know your financial situation
and all of that, but if we were just
talking theoretically, usually the piece
that's missing for people, if they keep
if they're working really hard, they're
doing everything, they're reading the
books, you know, they're like giving it
everything and it's not moving, they
they find that they keep experiencing
the same challenge. Usually what's
happening is it's in the subconscious.
So, the area to work on is the
subconscious mind. And it's that
people's deep subconscious um beliefs
and their identity is
there's programs running there that are
not serving their trading. And so it
doesn't matter how much conscious work
you do analyzing um you know like
tracking the data if if there's a
subconscious belief that it's holding
you back. So example that you know um
achievement I derive my self worth from
achievement. So, I'm only worthy as a
person if I'm achieving results. Uh,
that's a really common one. Um, which
would link with not being able to take a
loss. Uh, you know, because taking a
loss means that I'm less of a person.
Those deep beliefs will trip you up in
your trading. And they're usually, in my
experience, if someone is repeatedly
coming up against the same issue and
they're starting to question, you know,
is trading even for me? go and look into
that area of the subconscious beliefs
and how they're impacting your trading
and put some mental training tools in
place to try and reshape that. So you
figure out what the belief is that's
tripping up. Then you reshape it with
mental training and I would say now this
is a total nonressearchbased
uh guest of it but I would say in 95% of
cases that will shift things. So whether
trading is for you or not might be a
bigger question. But if it's because
you're coming up against this repeated
challenge, it's usually the subconscious
mind that's the blocker. And you know,
if you can target that and work on it
with very specific um techniques, you
probably should see then an uplift in
your performance and you'd see that
block dissolving.
>> Um I have a question uh that impacts
myself mostly, but uh I'd like to ask
you. Um I myself going through a
depression right now and uh it's also
some sort of a mid life crisis. I
achieved a lot and uh I know that I've
been plateaued in my achievements like I
made the money that I wanted. I had the
business and I climbed the biggest
mountains and I'm going through a very
you know serious depression in my mind
uh because I can't get that high from
another thing. And
what do you think I should do like uh or
people who reach to this level of uh
achievements through the peak
performance and then they go like again
you know I follow some of the you know
people like Maradona was the situation
like after you know becoming the board
figure and then he cocaine was his thing
until he died he just never could get
that high from something else had to go
through cocaine
what do you think I should do like
that's a question for me [laughter] So,
so I have a very clear specific answer
and first I'll have to do the you know
the ethical obviously if somebody is
experiencing depression and you know
going to sleep seek clinical help and
you know professional help with it
always first protocol but from my perspective
perspective
it's a really classic um example and and
you can disagree with this if you want
this is just my read of it the people
that you know pursue really high lofty
goals and goal after goal and and they
get that high and they set the new goal
Usually what's actually happening is
that they're equating their self-worth,
like their internal worth as a person,
how they feel about themselves, their
self-love, all of that. It entirely
depends on external results and that's
the problem. So it doesn't matter how
many mountains you climb or how many
millions are in the bank account or you
know none of that actually matters
because it's a operating system at your
subconscious level that is out of whack.
So the solution to it which is not easy
it takes a lot of you know internal work
it's actually like loving yourself and
I'm saying this to you but to anyone
who's struggling like this loving
yourself for who you are completely
separate to achieving anything like if
you never achieved anything in your life
but you had self-love you were totally
you know you really um felt inherently
worthy of love and happiness and all of
that just for by virtue of who you are
as a person as opposed to what you
achieve. when you can get to that place
it it you know then the achievements are
great but they don't define you as a
person and that's usually where the kind
of happiness comes back in.
>> Do you do you love yourself for who you
are? Like how
>> I do I do genuinely. I didn't always but
I did a lot of therapy and a lot of
selfwork on that like so you know I'm
I'm a walking example of having gone
from one version of probably being my
you know own biggest enemy to completely
coming full circle. And I genuinely do
love myself like for who I am and uh I
love to achieve things for sure. I'm a
competitive like driven person but and
and it's not perfect like I have to work
on that you know but yeah I could say
that hand on heart I do um but that I
had to do a lot of work to get to that point.
point.
>> Yeah I founded uh you know a lot of the
traders who are high achiever it's a
blessing and it's a curse. uh like my
father was the same like he was a you
know had nothing you know no education
and then really achieved a lot of uh
success financially and then he really
reached to that plateaued and then went
through the depression serious addiction
and he passed away very early in life.
Um and uh a lot of high achievers
getting into challenge of trading and
trying to get better and stuff that has
always served them in life but sometimes
it really catches them and you have to
be really careful but to your point I do
do therapy. I am trying to that's
exactly what my therapist is trying to
work uh on my psyche that go through
with my childhood go through the traumas
that I have and try to connect with my
inner person and try to love that person
uh and this anger that I always had and
make the fuel for my success you know
don't burn me uh and save me you know
after that um I don't know how much time
you have but uh I might may I see if
there's any question that uh people have.
have.
>> Yeah, I'm happy to stay on if that suits
you know I know you have your schedule
so but I'm happy to stay on if there's
>> Just to your point there Andrew I think
it's important like you're doing the
exact work that would resolve it. It
just takes time. Like for me it took 10
years to to overcome depression and an
eating disorder and then it continued to
be something I work on and now it's
completely out of my life. Like I don't
it's not something I struggle with at
all. It's never going to come back. But
like you can be doing all the right
stuff and just in the process of doing
it. It takes time and you know there's
not more you can be doing if you're
doing the work. It just it's a process.
>> Joy was saying that um Joy is asking a
question. It's not a question. It's more
like a statement that day trading saved
my life from a very dark place after
losing a loved one. And again he took uh
apparently this challenge of trading and
getting you know himself challenged to
recover from a crisis a tragedy in his
life and uh I've never actually thought
about that that trading can actually
this challenge can help you come out of
some dark stage of life.
Yeah, that's that's amazing that that uh
I can see how like it's given a focus, a
sense of achievement. It's you know it's
a really positive thing that so that's
wonderful that that's happened for that person
person
>> to answer the question that uh Amy had
uh up there that when to quit I think uh
if as a trader and educator if I want to
answer that is um a lot of time uh it's
psychology is not a problem your system
has the problem and people blame it to
psychology even Dr. Betty Steinberger
was saying that you know people love to
blame psychology for their inconsistency
but a lot of time is actually coming
from their system. So in my opinion is
uh if you give it a good reasonable
amount of time like maybe two years but
not full-time and only couple of hours
uh a day or maybe you know a week and
then you realize that you don't get the
consistency with moderate uh you know
investment that you had in your
education then maybe trading is not for
you and I do believe that trading is not
for everybody like uh some you know
career are not for some people like I
can never be a doctor. I hate blood and
everything. I can never become, you
know, you know, professional athlete in
what I'm picked because I'm not
passionate about and I think that's okay
if you're not [clears throat]
built for something.
>> Do you give this advice credit to some
people that maybe sometimes trading is
not for you.
>> 100%. Absolutely. Like there's so many
things that I could never be good at.
It's not, you know, and it and I might
try it and even if I was interested in
it, I might try it and it's just not
doesn't fit my personality. Doesn't
whatever. Um, I think that the key is
really trying to well probably having an
actual financial number that you know
I'm prepared to lose this much and if I
go past that I'm cut off. I think that's
just practical. Um, but I also think
that like you say um doing everything
you can to get the strategy right like
sometimes even at the higher level when
people have a good strategy sometimes
we'll work on something from the
psychology but actually it will turn out
that the market conditions have changed
and they need to adapt their strategy.
So, like you say, it's not always
psychology, but I think if you give it a
really good shot at learning the
technical side, addressing the
psychology, and you're not enjoying it,
you know, it feels like a strain and a
struggle all the time. Um, I think that,
you know, there there's no uh failure in
admitting that it's not for you. Like, I
quit a PhD in my life and, you know, I
guess a lot of people might see that as
a failure, but I think it's the best one
of the best decisions I made. I put so
much work into it, but it it came to a
point where the effort I was investing
wasn't going to turn into advancing me
down the path I wanted to go and so I
made a decision to cut my losses and you
know I I'm still to this day glad that I
did that. Um I learned a lot from doing
it but I'm glad I did it. So I don't
think that changing direction is failure
if it's the right thing for you. So I
think people find like being able to
figure out if it's right for them or not
is critical.
>> Yeah. And you in that time when you quit
you you didn't I mean now I know you
don't but in that time you felt that you
actually failed or no when you quit the PS
PS
>> no I had I mean I didn't I didn't do it
lightly I but I was so clear on where I
wanted to go with my career and I was so
clear on the trajectory of we lost a
year of research and like it got delayed
and I was having to choose actually
between purely focusing on research or
focusing on the um application. So I
much prefer the applied side of well at
the time it was sports psychology. Um
and I did the PhD on the like assumption
that I'd be able to work on both those
streams at the same time. And it got to
the point where I would have had to have
dropped the applied work in order to
only focus on the research. And that
wasn't my overall goal. Like I loved the
research. It was interesting but
ultimately I always wanted to be an
applied practitioner. And so it just got
to the point where I was like, "This is
taking me down a slightly different path
to where I want to go and it's no longer
like the correct mechanism to get me
where I want to go." And so I I quit it.
But it was definitely like I thought
about a lot, talked to therapists, like
really worked on the decision. So when I
did make the decision, it was a clean cut.
cut.
>> Yeah. Well, uh I really enjoyed the
conversation and uh if people want to uh
connect with you u I put a link uh in
the chat room and in YouTube u you have
a really great website a lot of
resources free resources as well I think
crediterformance.com is that the the URL
>> that's it yeah and there's a free master
class there free trading psychology
masterclass that if people want to um
understand about a few of the key
challenges that people experience as
traders the psychology uh side of if
they want to kind of understand more
about that and learn a few fixes for
those things that they can implement
straight away, that free master class is
probably the first place to start.
>> Yeah. And you have a YouTube channel and
you're active in pretty much all social
media, X and Instagram, I know. Uh and
LinkedIn as well. Um so guys, uh feel
free to uh follow and reach out to Cred
and I think your email is crederformance.com.
crederformance.com. Yes,
Yes,
>> that's it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
>> Seriously, also we have the link on our
website. So if you go to the homepage, I
think there is in one of the menu bars
uh it's it's in your so easy for people
to find you. I'm very grateful and we
have also a book together u on my trade
book uh credit has authored one chapter
which is really nice on psychology and
mental edge. I highly recommend guys uh
uh check it out and um thank you so much
for your time. I I really enjoy uh
talking to you every single time.
>> Thanks, Andrew. I love chatting to you.
It's always a really insightful
discussion. So, thanks for having me and
Click on any text or timestamp to jump to that moment in the video
Share:
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
One-Click Copy125+ LanguagesSearch ContentJump to Timestamps
Paste YouTube URL
Enter any YouTube video link to get the full transcript
Transcript Extraction Form
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
Get Our Chrome Extension
Get transcripts instantly without leaving YouTube. Install our Chrome extension for one-click access to any video's transcript directly on the watch page.
