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Former US Ambassador: Vietnam has become a leader in the region | Amb. Daniel Kritenbrink | EP 350 | Vietnam Innovators Digest | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Former US Ambassador: Vietnam has become a leader in the region | Amb. Daniel Kritenbrink | EP 350
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The content reflects on the transformative journey of US-Vietnam relations, moving from a history of conflict to a strong contemporary alliance, and discusses the strategic importance of Vietnam in the global economy, particularly in the context of trade and investment.
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When I was growing up, when I heard the
word Vietnam, I thought only of the war,
tragedy, controversy, and shame and
angst. When I departed Vietnam as
ambassador, it's very emotional for me.
Vietnam is a beautiful country. I think
arguably one of America's most important
friends and allies.
Daniel Kinbrick, he is no longer living
in Vietnam, but holds Vietnam very dear
to his heart. He's visiting again since
he left his ambassador post and he's
moved on to a new role at the Asia
Group. I've always believed in my entire
career of diplomacy. It's all about
trust and about mutual respect. We were
trying to do something interesting that
was supposed to show respect to Vietnam
and the Vietnamese people and celebrate
the Tet holiday. And when it came out,
not every comment is going to be
positive or nice because I got a
handwritten note from former President
Barack Obama.
When President Trump made his
announcement on April 2, 46% tariffs are
announced for Vietnam. Vietnamese
friends are shocked and well, this is
terrible. We're not going to engage and
we're going to figure out some other
path. Why did Vietnam end up with a more
favorable deal? And I think they had a
choice. There's a first mover advantage.
The first American ambassador to the
Socialist Republic of Vietnam was Pete
Peterson. And I told him once over
dinner that what the United States and
Vietnam had accomplished together was a
miracle. And Ambassador Peterson got
very unhappy with me. And he said, "I
don't like the word miracle. Miracle
implies that it just happened or was an
accident and or an act of God." He said,
"That's not what happened here." Will
Vietnam be quote unquote the next
Singapore? Don't get me wrong, I have a
lot of respect and admiration for
Singapore as well. But [Music]
[Music]
good afternoon everyone. Welcome to
another episode of the Vietnam
Innovators podcast. I'm your host. Thank
you for tuning in every single week and
supporting the podcast. Uh today we
actually have a very special guest. Uh
he is no longer living in Vietnam, but
holds Vietnam very dear to his heart,
I'm sure. Um he's visiting again um
since he left his ambassador post and
he's moved on to a new role at the Asia
group. Uh but I'll let him explain
everything. Uh Daniel Kittenberg,
>> welcome to the podcast.
>> Mr. How are you? Such a pleasure and
honor to be here.
>> Yes, thank you. [Music]
[Music] [Applause]
[Applause] [Music]
>> Let's just wind back the clock a little
bit. ambassador. Um, uh, in my notes
here, one of your first, or sorry, one
of your last, uh, things that you did
with the Vietnamese government was a
very endearing photo with the former
general secretary, um, upon your
departure. And I think that really
marked, uh, not only the end of your
time in Vietnam, but also the beginning
of some uh, new things to look forward to.
to. >> Um,
>> Um,
>> drawing from your time as the
ambassador, how would you say Vietnam
has changed
>> since then? Well, how thanks for the qu,
you know, um I I reflect on that. I I
remember when I when I left when I
departed Vietnam as ambassador. It's
very emotional for me. You know, I moved
here with my family. We were here for
for 3 and 1/2 years. You get very
invested in a place. We we loved every
minute of being here. You know, traveled
all over the country, met so many
people. I talked about develop the
developing these relationships of trust
and these friendships that that was hard
to uh to walk away from. And you know um
you know even officially I was really
gratified you know the general secretary
allowed me to call on him as did the you
know the president and the prime
minister and foreign minister and
others. Um and part of the reason why I
think it was so meaningful to me is that
you know I was here during the 25th
anniversary uh of US Vietnam ties and of
course was here over this last week to
celebrate the 30th anniversary. When you
reflect on that, it's really
extraordinary what the United States and
Vietnam have accomplished together. And
to feel like I made a small contribution
to that is really the greatest honor of
my life. My my first political memories
that I remember as a child were of the
Vietnam War and of the Watergate
hearings uh which were not uh unrelated
as you may recall uh from our history.
Uh, and when I was growing up, you know,
Vietnam, when I heard the word Vietnam,
I thought only of the war. I thought of
this tragedy. Even for someone of my
generation, um, it was uh, it was a
source of controversy and shame and uh,
and angst. And then to discover in the
course of my diplomatic career that uh
Vietnam is a beautiful country uh with
amazing people who today
um you know is really I think arguably
one of America's uh most important
friends and allies and when you when you
reflect on that journey uh it's really
gratifying and it's and it's quite
emotional. You ask how Vietnam has
changed the most. Look, I think Vietnam
has changed in an extraordinary way over
the last especially 30 years. Uh, and
the US Vietnam relationship has changed
alongside it and there's a direct
correlation there. You know, I mean, I
think Vietnamese leaders decided that
they were going to pursue a new path, a
path of international integration and
part of that uh was dependent on
normalizing ties with the United States.
As you know, the United States still had
an economic embargo on Vietnam and and
was probably the main roadblock to
Vietnam's internationalization strategy.
So, the the two went hand inand
Vietnamese reform, desire to integrate
uh internationally, and then a desire to
normalize ties with the United States.
All of that came together. Uh I think
Vietnam has changed uh in really
dramatic ways, and Vietnam has
accomplished so much. I think the
Vietnamese people and the Vietnamese
leadership should be incredibly proud of
what what you accomplished. Vietnam
today uh is a leader. It's a leader in
the region. Um it's an incredible example
example
uh of what a country can achieve. You
know, it's partly related to the
normalization story with the US. I think
it's much more related to what a people
and a country can do when they set out
an ambitious uh plan and when they work
towards it. You know, Vietnam's, as you
know, one of the fastest growing
economies in the world. You are one of
the youngest countries in the world. And
when I come here, I'm just addicted to
the dynamism and the energy
uh that I feel. And also, perhaps most
surprisingly, to the incredible
positivity towards the United States.
You know, a couple years ago when I was
here as ambassador, I used to say,
"America is more popular in Vietnam than
any other country in the world." Can you
imagine that after everything that we've
been through? But but it's true. I I'll
share one more story. The first American
ambassador to the Socialist Republic of
Vietnam was Pete Peterson. I don't know
if you're aware of his story, but you
know, he was um uh he was a fighter
pilot during the war. He was shot down.
He was imprisoned in the Hanoi Hilton
for uh 7 years, about a year longer than
John McCain was. And he ends up becoming
the first American ambassador and does
such an amazing job uh and really got us
off uh I think on the right foot. Got to
know him when I was ambassador here. I
used to host him at my home regularly
and I told him once over dinner that
what the United States and Vietnam had
accomplished together was a miracle and
Ambassador Peterson got very unhappy
with me and I was surprised and I said
why what did I say and he said I don't
like the world the word miracle he said
what the United States and Vietnam have
achieved is extraordinary and we should
celebrate it but miracle implies that it
just happened or it was an accident and
or an act of God he said that's not what
happened here what we've achieved is the
result of hard work, courage,
commitment, and goodwill by people and
leaders on both sides. And I was I was
really inspired by that. So, look,
Vietnam has accomplished a lot through
the hard work of your people and your
leadership. Uh the United States and
Vietnam have done the same together.
Hasn't been easy, but um you should be
proud of what you've done and we we
should be proud and celebrate together
what we've achieved. Now you you know
what you know today which is um probably
not much more than than most people in
terms of like the details of the
negotiation but you know the context how
the people are thinking about it. Um why
did Vietnam end up with a more favorable
deal would you say? Of course it's not a
done deal. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh aside from the trust social I think
it's what it's called. Social true
social sorry.
>> Um was it strategy? Was it trust
something else? uh give us a little
backstory of what what you're thinking
on that.
>> Yeah. No, the these are great questions.
How and something that we you know
follow very closely and spend a lot of
time talking about. May maybe I'll say a
couple of things. Um look, I I have
tremendous respect I think you can tell
for Vietnam and for Vietnam Vietnamese
diplomacy, which I think is is been very
skillful over the years. You know, I
talked earlier about what Vietnam has achieved.
achieved.
I think diplomatically Vietnam has
achieved all that it's had because your
leadership and your diplomats are very
strategic and very practical. Uh and I
think uh Vietnam has brought that same
strategic thinking and practicality to
the current challenge over tariffs. I do
think when President Trump made his
announcement on April 2 to um issue the
so-called uh liberation day tariffs, the
the reciprocal tariffs, I do think
Vietnamese friends were were shocked and
a bit uh a bit bewildered. Some were
maybe a bit a bit angry. And I think
what I had heard in the runup to April 2
was some version of, you know, a lot of
Vietnamese friends felt like they had
engaged so positively with the first
Trump administration. This is when I was
here as ambassador. Of course, President
Trump visited twice. President Trump
stated explicitly, publicly, and
privately that he likes Vietnam. He said
that earlier this year in a in an early
phone call that General Secretary Dolom
made. And I think that that made a lot
of Vietnamese friends feel like we did
really well under the first Trump
administration. We're going to follow
that same playbook. We know the
president generally likes Vietnam.
Everything's going to be fine. Then the
April 2 announcement happens uh and 46%
tariffs are announced for Vietnam.
There's Vietnamese friends are shocked
and bewildered. And I think they had a
choice. They could have been upset and
angry and said, "Well, well, this is
terrible. Um we're not going to engage
and we're going to figure out some other
path forward, right?" But that's not
what Vietnam did. And I think in classic
Vietnamese fashion, Vietnamese
leadership and diplomats said, "We're
going to engage and we're going to
engage aggressively and we're going to
bank our success on a belief that
there's a first mover advantage." And I
think the Trump administration was
trying to signal that was the case. Uh,
but I got to tell you, I think the
Vietnamese may have engaged Washington
as successfully, maybe more successfully
than anyone else. General Secretary
Dolan was the first leader to call
President Trump after April 2. They
spoke on April 4. Uh there was a formal
agreement that Vietnam was going to be
on the the short list of fast-tracked
trade negotiations. Uh the Vietnamese uh
and the US sides have had I've lost
track. I want to say something like five
rounds of negotiations both in person uh
and virtually. Deputy Prime Minister
Faul came to the United States. Trade
Minister Zen came to the United States
multiple times. Lots of virtual
um engagements as well. And look, the
Vietnamese have been strategic. They've
been practical. They've been concrete.
They've been detailed. I think they
brought a lot to the table. They put a
lot on the table. And I think my
understanding from talking with friends
on both sides, um, the Vietnamese uh,
they they they came to play. Uh, they
brought their the their agame. They put
on the table a pretty broad
comprehensive package of commercial
purchases, uh, steps to address market
access barriers, non-tariff barriers,
uh, and then, um, um, some creative uh,
responses to US concerns, whether it was
trans shipment, Chinese content or
tariff levels or whatever. So, um, look,
I I think the deal as it stands today is
the result of hard work on both sides.
But I give a lot of credit to, uh,
Vietnamese diplomats and negotiators for
that outcome. I I do think though we're
not quite done, and it's important to
focus on that for a couple of reasons.
It's hard to tell exactly how the
Vietnamese deal may stack up to others
um, uh, you know, before the other deals
are concluded. I think what I've learned
from the Vietnamese negotiators and
others, it's the relative tariff rate
that's more important than anything. So,
you know, when I push Vietnamese
friends, hey, what's your bottom line on
tariffs? They say, well, I'm not going
to give you one. It all all depends on
how our competitors are doing. Right?
That's point one. Point two would be
it's not quite done yet because I think
following the the most recent phone call
between President Trump and President
Dolam. Uh my sense is there's there's a
little bit of confusion and ambiguity on
both sides and basically both sides are
figuring out how do we implement in
detail what was discussed on the call
and what's been negotiated between the
two sides because I know Vietnamese and
American companies feel this way. I know
our clients feel this way. When you've
invested billions of dollars in the
Vietnamese market, either for the
Vietnamese market or especially for
export out of Vietnam, which is what
most of the investment is focused on,
the relative tariff rate is existential
to your business and to the survival of
at least that supply chain that's
dependent on Vietnam, maybe to the
entire business. So, companies and
investors need certainty and they they
crave it. They're desperate for it. And
I think we can't see soon enough the
issuance of this joint statement that's
being negotiated uh because we need to
lay out the clarity.
What is 20% uh across the board on
reciprocal tariffs really mean? Does
that include the the the previous MFN
tariffs? Is it in place of that? On top
of that, what does 40% on transship
goods mean? Um I don't know anybody
quite on either side of the Pacific who
knows yet, right? because you can define
trans shshipment in different ways. Um
is it related to fraudulent rules of
origin or just Chinese content? And then
uh on the 0% tariffs, does that mean
select um you know select sectors of
goods will have 0% tariffs in Vietnam or
is that across the board? So anyway,
we're not quite there yet, but I still
think the thrust of your question is is
is a good one. Vietnamese have done
quite well. Uh overall what's been
announced actually stacks up pretty well
compared to other markets, but I I still
think we got a lot of details that have
to be hammered out. [Music]
[Music] [Applause]
[Applause] [Music]
[Music]
>> Uh Dan, one thing as I researched your
background just a bit further is, you
know, I realized you were appointed
ambassador um during Trump's first uh term.
term.
>> Yeah. And and so you could say that
you're one of the very few people in the
world that know both sides quite well in
terms of I would say not just relationship.
relationship.
>> I I do feel like I know both sides.
>> You might be actually the only person.
Another thing about it because you know
Vietnam and and the US um the history of
trade is not as lengthy as let's say
Japan or Korea which have a few decades
on it obviously in terms of uh history
>> and I think in the relationship you have
this unique lens into it. So my my
question is the other way around. How
can Vietnamese businesses
>> uh get a better insight into how the
current administration is thinking about
Vietnam trade? how can they perhaps
prepare just a little bit better? >> Um,
>> Um,
>> no, that's really well said. Well, look,
for for those uh for those clients who
hire the Asia Group, that's what we do
is is we we help them uh on a daily
basis try to understand what's happening
in the negotiations, what does it mean
for your sector? because as I as we
understand it um
you know the the the the draft agreement
uh at least before the phone call I
think was pretty sophisticated in terms
of depending on the sector and level of
foreign content there were different
tariff levels and the like and so I
think it's important to know that but
maybe to take a step back before we get
too bogged down in the details maybe
look at this issue uh maybe from a bit
more of a philosoph ophical viewpoint.
We've tried to advise clients, don't
make any rash decisions right now. Um, I
think we all crave clarity and whether
you're uh a company that's thinking
about investing in Vietnam or the United
States or exporting to one market or the
other, whether you're considering again
an investment in a new supply chain or
even considering moving your supply
chains, I I I think now is the moment to
probably hang tight to follow the
situation very closely and to wait until
we see how these relative tariff levels
settle settle out before making any big
decisions. That would be number one. I
do think it's important to follow the
issues closely. But thirdly, I think
what we normally advise is that
companies ought to be quite proactive as
well. Um, you know, our conversation
today is focus mostly on sort of risk
mitigation and the risks we see. I think
a lot of companies and the public go to
that uh sort of in the first instance.
But one thing we try to do at the Asia
Group is we try to tell clients, look,
there's always opportunity as well. And
there really is because we're in the
midst of a trade negotiation where both
sides have a lot of stake. You could
argue both sides have a lot of leverage
right now. This is the moment as far as
I'm concerned to resolve a lot of the
longstanding market access uh issues and
non-tariff barriers as well. So I think
the companies that have s succeeded the
best are the ones that have gotten their
issues on the agenda. Whether it's
American companies petitioning the
American the US government or Vietnamese
companies petitioning the the Vietnamese
government or a little bit of both. This
is also a moment to think how how can we
how can we navigate this? and um because
there's a real desire in Washington and
Hanoi to conclude a deal uh there's an
opportunity to resolve some long-term
issues here as well. So I think I think
the biggest advice I would give to
Vietnamese companies work really hard to
understand the current moment and
whether that's you know hiring a
world-class consulting firm or uh
engaging with your your peers in in in
the sector. Do everything you can to
have a sophisticated understanding of
what's happening. But but I'd be very
deliberate and careful. I wouldn't make
rash decisions right now. But I I would
definitely take a proactive approach.
And again, it's not all gloom and doom.
It's not all risk and downside. There
are tremendous opportunities here. And
to go back to your very first question
on this subject, Vietnam looks pretty
good from where we sit today. If we can
land this deal that we're negotiating
right now, um I I think Vietnam's going
to come out in a pretty strong position.
I I think that's that's where I would
bet my money right now. But we got to
watch really closely because uh this
deal is not fully done yet. And again,
it depends on on the relative tariff
rate for for the other markets as well.
>> Uh Dan, on that note, before I continue
as well, um I've been meeting a few
other business leaders uh over the last
week since we scheduled this podcast. Uh
today's the 15th of July, just for the
audience to know. We'll release this
very quickly after recording. Um and I I
noted that, hey, we're having Dan on the
show. Um he's at the Asia Group. Um he's
going to be sharing about this topic and everyone
everyone
>> wanted to listen to this podcast. Oh wow.
wow.
>> And actually,
>> you know, just as a side note, we'll
have to revisit it later. Um, some of
them actually really wanted to do like a
closed door session with you, like an
offline event to hear from you and your team.
team.
>> Look, my friend, I'm I'm game. So, if
you want to do something like that,
let's talk because
>> um, you know, whether it's on a future
trip or something that we do
>> uh remotely, I'd love to do that. When
you look at US Vietnam trade and the
role of the market, you know, we got
decades worth of experience with one
another. decades worth of investment and
trade and relationships. And I know that
the United States remains Vietnam's
largest export market. I don't think
that's going to change overnight. And as
I said earlier, it's the relative tariff
rate that's more important than
anything. So, so let's see where things
shake out. I actually think Vietnam's
position pretty well right now. So, I
again, I wouldn't make any rash
decisions at this point. Uh I think um
we're going to know more in the um you
know in the coming weeks but um I I I
remain I remain bullish on Vietnam and
US Vietnam relations regardless.
>> Uh will Vietnam be quote unquote the
next Singapore, Southeast Asia? Um is
that the wrong comparison altogether? Is
it making its own story? And and what is
that story if you were just to give that
quick elevator pitch?
Well, look, don't get me wrong. I have a
lot of respect and admiration for
Singapore as well, but and look, these
are Vietnam's sovereign decisions.
Vietnamese leaders know better than
anybody else what are the challenges and
opportunities for Vietnam here in the
21st century and what's the the right
path forward. But I think for me, I I'd
probably be reluctant to sort of hop on
the bandwagon of let's talk about being
the next Singapore. You know, I'd want
to I'd probably pitch it as how can
Vietnam be its best self, be the best
Vietnam that it could be and think about
all the attributes that you have. You
have this, you know, when we talked a
little about a little bit earlier, but I
reflect a little bit more on what is it
that American and other investors see in
Vietnam. again, they they see this
young, rapidly developing economy with
with Vietnamese people who work hard,
who uh are pretty well educated and
trained to begin with, but are hungry
and eager for more. Um, who are sincere
and honest and dedicated. Again, you've
got a leadership that's focused
strategically on trying to take Vietnam
to the next level of development and is
committed to uh private sector to grow
growth in FDI. There's a lot to be
optimistic about here. So, that that's
what I'm focused on. Um, you know, I've
heard a little bit since I've been here
this idea of Vietnam is the next
Singapore. And look, uh, there's a lot
to learn from in Singapore, a lot to like.
like.
Again, for me, I I think Vietnam needs
to just think about what are its unique
attributes and how can it be its very
best self. The things that I worry the
most about as a friend of Vietnam is how
are you going to solve your energy
challenge? To keep this amazing story
going and the the Vietnamese economic
miracle going,
um Vietnam has to meet its energy
demands. You know, from what the general
secretary and others say that Vietnam
knows better than anybody what those
challenges are, but there's also been
talk about this for the last couple of
decades and probably not as much
progress as needs to be made. Vietnamese
leaders are also talking about uh how do
we um you know, how do we make Vietnam
and and IT superpower? How do we uh
invest in semiconductor supply chains?
How do we build data centers here and
take advantage of the AI revolution?
you've got a lot of attributes there as
well, but a lot of that's going to
depend on uh meeting the the power needs
as well. And so I I really hope that the
reforms the general secretary and others
are talking about can really take off
and we can speed up the reform a and the
project approvals that will meet those
energy demands. I hope hope to see some
acceleration there. I think that'll be
that'll be really key. But I I've been
really impressed in talking with
investors and people here. you know, the
things you're doing in the IT sector and
in software development. I mean, hey,
guess that's why you're here, right? I
mean, it's it's pretty extraordinary.
You think about the number of, you know,
Vietnamese and Silicon Valley and the
like there's a lot to work with here
that I'm I'm really excited about. I'm
confident that Vietnam will continue to
find its own path, but that's probably
what what I would think about. Look, but
it's always great to look for examples.
I I've seen Vietnamese people taking
bits and parts of what they like from
the from the the the Singapore model
from every country, bits and pieces from
like the Korean and Japanese success
stories and the like. You I I just
encourage Vietnam to find its own way
and um that that'll almost certainly be
the best way.
>> You know, it's been a few years since
our team um kind of interacted with you
in the past and I didn't get a chance to
meet you with you, but our team did. Um,
and it's all about that rap video.
>> It's pretty amazing
>> that that went viral online. Um, why
don't we just start there to kind of set
the tone a little bit?
>> Um, do you remember any lines from the
rap video?
>> Well, you know, by the time we got done
filming, I probably did it a thousand
times. So, I I remember all the lines,
but um um yeah, you don't you you can
test me if you want, but no. Okay. You
know, the funny thing was I don't know
if you could tell when we first started
doing that. Um, you know, I I didn't
know it very well. Matt Ference, I don't
know if you knew Matt when he was here.
He was the public affairs officer here
in Ho Chi Min City. And basically, he
came to me
>> uh in my last year in Vietnam and said,
"Hey, Mr. Ambassador, I got an idea for you."
you."
>> He said, "I know annually you do a Tet video
video
>> because we we always tried to show great
respect to Vietnam and the Vietnamese
people." So, every year I would do some
kind of a video to commemorate Tet. And
Matt came to me and said, you know,
they're pretty good, but they're, you
know, uh he said, "I think we can do
something more exciting." Uh, and he
said, "Did you know that rap or hip-hop
is the most popular, you know, musical
art form among young Vietnamese people?
Clear US Nexus." He said, "Why don't we
do a rap video for Tet this year?" Uh,
and I said, "Why not? Let's do it." So,
so he he did the whole thing, you know,
he wrote it. He
>> uh he hired you to produce it, you know,
did did the whole thing. I was just his
prop. But when we started shooting, I I
didn't have it memorized at all. And
there there were there were two guys
holding Q cards behind the camera and I
was reading for some of those early
takes. But seriously, I bet we did like
who knows 100 maybe a thousand takes. So
yeah, it's it's kind of imprinted in my
brain. I'm so grateful to you for doing
I'm grateful to Matt cuz he thought of something,
something,
>> you know, a little bit unorthodox,
you know, um 50-year-old white guy from
from Nebraska doing a a hiphop, you
know, a rap video partly in Vietnamese
about Ted. It's a little bit unorthodox
obviously. I I remember when I I he
actually sent me a formal memo. I
remember I signed off on and I said,
"You know what? I might lose my job over
this cuz we're taking a risk." But I
said, "Why not?" And I think the thing
that excited me is I've always believed
in my entire career of diplomacy. I
learned early on it's all about trust
and about mutual respect. And so we we
were trying to do something interesting
that was supposed to show respect to
Vietnam and the Vietnamese people and
celebrate the Tet holiday. do it in a
way that maybe would resonate with them.
And in this amazing, you know,
globalized world, I thought rap or
hip-hop might be the the medium to do
that. And um well, it's it's just
amazing. Um I I can mention a couple
other things that stood out about it. Um
it was really cool that that we got
Wowee to do it. I don't know if that was
you or Matt or who who did that, but I I
really love I really love Wow. And I
remember at one point in the filming, he
looked at me and he said, "Mr.
ambassador, I'm going to make you
famous." And I guess and I guess he was
right. Um, but it was kind of amazing.
You know, we did it for the Vietnamese
audience to show respect and hopefully
highlight this great intercultural
uh exchange that's taken place um
between, you know, Americans and
Vietnamese. And when it came out, uh, I
was really pleasantly surprised how
popular it was in Vietnam. I mean, it it
exceeded our expectations, right? But
then there was this really kind of
strange period where about 48 hours
later it it sort of went viral globally
>> and and and and I wasn't prepared for
that. You know, I I felt a little
nervous and a little bit embarrassed.
People are calling me from from all over
the world. But what I loved about it is
then it gave me this this vehicle to
talk about the United States in Vietnam.
And I used to tell people, hey, the idea
that an American ambassador would think
it was a good idea to do this in
Vietnam. And the fact that it was
popular, I think speaks volumes to how
close the US and Vietnam have become,
how much our relationship has changed
for the better.
>> So, I was really gratified for and and I
have to like I I have to sort of brag
about two things. So, I felt like it
went okay in the end
>> because I got a handwritten note from
former President Barack Obama saying,
"Hey, great great job on, you know, on
the video." And then MC Hammer retweeted
the video.
>> Um, so I felt those two things kind of
kind of validated, but but we did it we
did it for the Vietnamese audience and I
I was really gratified how well it went
and I really just can't thank you and
your team enough. You guys were uh amazing.
amazing.
>> It's it's probably one of the things
I'll never forget about running this
company. So, thank you so much
ambassador for that opportunity and the
audience reception to it was incredible.
I remember reading comments and I
reviewed them this morning before this podcast.
podcast.
>> Some people said it was a milestone in
US Vietnam relation. And you know, you
put something out that goes viral
globally. Not not every comment is going
to be positive or nice.
>> But I thought for the people that didn't
like it, I think they didn't understand
what we were doing. And and I think for
for most people who did, which was the
majority of people, I think they
understood what we were what we were
trying to do. And um you know, another
thing I was very conscious about was I
was trying to be respectful of Vietnam
and respectful of of the art form and I
was just trying to be be myself. So you
know, when we talked about like how do I
dress, what do I do, you know, I thought
I thought Matt and your team said the
right thing like just be yourself. So
you know, had my suit on and a sweater
vest and we we did our thing.
>> Awesome. Uh, we'll have to arrange a uh
reunion for you and Wowi and Bins.
>> I I would love to do, you know, when I
left Vietnam, I guess it was probably
Yeah, it was just a couple months after
that, actually,
>> um, Wow. We actually came to one of my
farewell events, and I was I was really
touched. He's He's a great guy. >> Okay.
>> Okay. [Music]
[Music]
>> Um, let's turn to your current work. Yeah,
Yeah,
>> Daniel. Um,
>> it's you're on the front lines of what's
going on, especially in the private
sector. Um, so you're a partner at the
Asia Group, which is a global firm
helping primarily American companies, as
I understand, uh,
>> kind of expand, uh, do good work, um,
create value in Asia. Um, and you've
been in this role since February. >> Yep.
>> Yep.
>> Uh, so not too far ago. Um, how did you
find this transition from public to
private sector? um and also what
surprised you the most and perhaps what
sort of skills that you picked up in the
public sector have helped you thus far
in your current.
>> Thank you. How those are great
questions. Look, I I have loved every
minute uh of my new career at the Asia
Group and I've really enjoyed being in
the private sector, even much more so
than I than I anticipated. You know, I I
I was really inspired to uh a career in
public service by uh really by some of
the professors I had when I was a
university student in Nebraska and and I
had the opportunity to meet um both some
American and and foreign diplomats
during that time and that's what really
inspired me to pursue a career in public
service. But after 31 years and and
having so many amazing opportunities, I
I feel so privileged and blessed, you
know, to serve as ambassador to Vietnam.
I was the assistant secretary for East
Asia in the Pacific at the State
Department. I was senior director for
Asia in the White House. Uh spent a long
time in in China and Japan. I felt like
I'd achieved everything I ever dreamt
possible, even more so than I' I'd ever
dreamed might be possible. So, I I was
looking for hopefully a new career and a
new a new opportunity and a new way to
to contribute. Uh I'm really grateful to
be uh at the Asia Group. Uh I think it's
the finest business consultancy focused
primarily on Asia. And I guess what I've
found is um I think the skill set of
people like me is directly applicable to
to the private sector. You know what I
learned throughout my my public career
was that diplomacy is all about
relationships and especially
relationships of trust. Uh and I think
that's uh you know it's that kind of
ethos and that spirit that we bring to
our work uh at the Asia Group. Um, you
know, we talk about helping our clients
navigate this new geoc moment that we
find ourselves uh in. Um, you know, I
think more than ever we're finding
public policy, especially emanating from
Washington uh is having a huge impact on
on uh corporate strategy. Uh, and if
you're going to navigate that moment, I
think you have to embrace where we are,
you have to understand it, and then we
have to help companies in a really
sophisticated way navigate that. You
asked me what surprised me the most. I
think what what surprised me uh on the
upside is look you are right. We we are
headquartered in Washington DC but we
have 13 offices uh uh overseas in Asia.
40% of our workforce uh is in Asia and
although we do have a large number of
American clients, we also have uh a
really large number of Asian clients as
well. And and we do some of the things
that you would expect. We help a lot of
uh uh American and uh other foreign
companies uh figure out how to operate
in Asia. We're helping uh a Asian
companies um navigate the US market. But
I've been most pleasantly surprised by
the number of Asian clients we have that
ask for our help elsewhere in Asia.
>> Uh for example, as soon as I finish up
here in in Ho Chi Min City, uh I'm going
to go spend two days in Seoul. uh we
have a a really important and growing
practice uh in in Korea. Uh and
increasingly we find a number uh of
Korea's leading companies um uh are
working with us to to invest elsewhere
in Asia. And I don't need to tell you or
anybody else how important Vietnam is to
South Korea and we hope at the Asia
Group to continue playing a role in
that. I think that that's probably the
the the the biggest surprise I've had
really on the upside that that we feel
like we can bring the understanding that
we as a firm have of uh of Asian
countries and governments of of the US
um market and US policy and then help uh
help our our clients put together a
strategy that allows them to navigate
that in the most successful way
possible. So, look, I've loved every
minute of it. I've loved being able to
come back to Vietnam. You know, I I work
uh I work a lot on Vietnam, I also uh am
very engaged in our China practice, but
given my given my background across the
region, uh I I work as well uh a bit uh
on uh you know, supporting our clients
in Korea and Japan and across Southeast
Asia as well.
>> You have a very fun job.
>> I have a great job. You know, I was
joking the other day. you know, in some
ways I still feel like a diplomat just
now I'm a commercial diplomat and I'm
working mostly on behalf of our clients.
And so, you know, it changes your
perspective. You're bringing a similar,
I think, skill set and you're using, you
know, the same knowledge and experiences
that I've developed over decades and
that we as a firm have developed uh over
over the last decade plus, but just from
a from a new perspective. So, again, I
tell people I feel like I'm a commercial
diplomat now. And the the other thing
though that's still really important to
me is I think for myself and many
colleagues at the Asia group, you know,
I think collectively if you look at who
we are almost to a person, we've
dedicated our entire adult lives to Asia.
Asia.
So we have really deep and lasting relationships
relationships
uh across the region. uh and so from uh
from the sidelines and in an informal
way, we still try to to to help and
provide advice where we can to diplomats
across the region as well. I'm
passionately invested in the US Vietnam
partnership and friendship and I'll do
whatever I can even informally uh to try
to support the the continue the
continued growth of the friendship
between our two countries and I feel the
same way about um you know what we're
trying to do elsewhere in the region.
you know that we that doesn't generate
any income that doesn't keep uh keep our
company afloat but I think it's it's
something that we all feel passionately
about and and we try to do what we can
look I I can speak for myself and I
guarantee I can speak for you know the
Asia group and our our chairman Kirk
Campbell and our CEO Narov Patel and
others we fundamentally believe that the
the future of the 21st century is going
to be written right here in Asia and
that uh America's security and
prosperity depends on what happens uh in
Asia, including right here in Vietnam
and and we need to be a part of that and
we intend to do so.
>> Yeah. And um I'm I'm curious. I I
haven't been living in the US for 10
years now since I left. Yeah.
>> Um, how has US firms and investors their
view of Vietnam evolved and especially
as of late with, you know, the tariffs
happening, um, some shifts in in trade?
>> Uh, have their view of Vietnam and the
kind of questions they're asking about
Vietnam changed?
>> Yeah, those are great questions. How I I
probably ought to break that down into
different components. We can talk about
how people see Vietnam and the
tremendous opportunities here, but I
think, you know, we we then also have to
analyze what's happening in Washington,
especially regarding trade and tariff
policy and how that's affecting um you
know, calculations on the part of uh of
investors whether it's in the United
States and elsewhere. Look, maybe I I'll
take the the first one. What what's
happening in Vietnam and views of
Vietnam? Look, I I think a lot of
American uh companies, you know, like me
and like all of us at the Asia Group,
we're bullish on Vietnam, we see
tremendous opportunity here, right? Um
in one of the regions of one of the
world's fastest growing economies, one
of the youngest, most dynamic countries
in the region and the world, uh you've
got a stable leadership and and
political scene. You've got a leadership
I think particularly
um you know under the new general
secretary Dolam, you've got a leadership
that's that's really focused strategically
strategically
uh I think in trying to position Vietnam
uh to best succeed in the 21st century.
I I I have to say I'm I'm really taken
by his vision. I came here in March um
partly on my own and partly as part of a
US ASEAN business council mission. We
had the the chance to meet directly with
the general secretary and to hear his
vision about how Vietnam is going to
focus under his leadership on economic
development first and foremost
uh primarily fueled by uh the private
sector and foreign direct investment and
in the key uh strategic sectors that
Vietnam believes will be central to its
growth strategy which is you know it and
high-tech energy especially uh uh clean energy
energy
um you know infrastructure,
transportation, healthcare and the like.
That that's a pretty impressive vision.
So look, I I think you know whether it's
American investors or South Korean or
Japanese investors, there are a lot of
reasons to be excited about the
opportunity here in Vietnam. You know, a
growing economy uh and increasingly
wealthy populace with uh cash to spend
on all sorts of things. is again the
leadership focused on areas really
growing energy demands that if they're
not resolved soon uh are going to be a
real bottleneck to Vietnamese growth,
but I'm cautiously optimistic Vietnam
will will meet that. So that's the
opportunity I think uh um American and
other investors see. Uh I I will say
that um because we want Vietnam to
succeed, I think we and and many of our
clients are also honest about some of
the challenges that we see here. And you
know the main challenges that we see
despite all the optimism would be the
the the slow pace of of project
approvals including in the energy
sector. I think there's a sense that uh
the Vietnamese bureaucracy probably
moves a bit slower than it needs to uh
in those areas. I think there, you know,
there's some concern about the the
opacity of the the policym process and
you always hear concerns about um you
know, some tax policies and the like. Um
but but I will say this, when I when I
first arrived in Vietnam as ambassador,
I had all kinds of American companies
coming in asking for help. Uh, and I
used to joke that what I discovered is
American companies don't call on the
American ambassador to say, "Hey, Dan,
just wanted to let you know how well
we're doing. Um, just thought I'd tell
you that. Nice to meet you. Bye." No,
like American companies come to see the
American ambassador because they have a
problem and they want the ambassador's
help. So, I started to develop kind of a
skewed, I think, view early in my tenure
of Vietnam. I thought, "Wow, there's so
many challenges here." to make sure I
had the right view though, I went and
talked to some of our most experienced
business people and consultants and
lawyers. Uh and and and um what what I
discovered was this. They said, "You you
need to start asking additional
questions of the companies that come to
complain." And so what I started doing
was okay, you know, uh Mr. or or Ms. US
business representative, you got this
concern. We're going to help you. Let me
ask you a question. Uh are you committed
to Vietnam for the long term? And the
answer 100% of the time was of course we
are. Are you leaving anytime soon? No.
We're not going anywhere. Uh okay,
that's helpful. And then I would say how
does Vietnam, despite this challenge,
compared to the rest of Asia? And almost
every representative would say, oh well,
the situation in Vietnam is much better
than elsewhere.
>> So what it taught me was, you know, the
Vietnamese market isn't perfect. There
are some of the challenges that I've
talked about, but for the companies that
are invested here, they're here for the
long term. They're bullish on Vietnam.
and almost to a person they'd say as
well that the Vietnamese leadership
really over the last decade and that's
still the case under general secret is
also committed to meeting with
businesses and addressing their
concerns. So, you know, there are
challenges here. Um, I think a lot of us
remain really bullish that um we can we
can meet the moment and help contribute
to Vietnam's development. [Music]
[Music]
>> Uh Daniel, we're near the end of our
podcast. Just a couple questions left
for you, by the way. Um, I want to hear
some uh advice from you about how
Vietnamese businesses can prepare to go
global, especially in the US and also
vice versa. How can US companies come to
Vietnam? Just that one, two, three, uh,
kind of straight up advice
>> and takeaways that you can offer.
>> Yeah, look, you you got to know your
market. You got to do great research.
Uh, you got to focus on talent. got to
have the best talent to operate, you
know, in in in in either market. Um, and
you you really got to do your your due
diligence and and you have to, you know,
through that research and due diligence
and hiring great talent, you you have to
figure out the unique needs of that
market. You know, operating in the
United States, you know, brings its own
set of opportunities and challenges. you
know, from different regulations in
every state in the United States to
meeting, you know, standards and
regulations depending on the the sector
you're in. And also, you know,
understanding the market and American
tastes and preferences and the like. And
the same holds true here here in
Vietnam, you know, may maybe even even
more so. Um, you know, when I think about,
about,
you know, especially the companies and
the investors that we see uh succeed
here, they're the ones that are here for
the long run. They're the ones that do
hire the the the right talent uh and
that that work really hard to succeed in
this environment, not to come to Vietnam
and say, "Uh, Vietnam, you got to change
to suit me." to say no, you know, how
are we going to tailor our approach and
our goods and our products to the
Vietnamese market? You know, I have said
here there are some things that I think
foreign investors want to see in
Vietnam, but I I learned early on from
one of my one of my former bosses, a
former president who who stated very
clearly to the Vietnamese leadership,
America is invested in Vietnam success.
So when we raise concerns or make
suggestions, we do it from the
standpoint of wanting Vietnam to
succeed, wanting to see the best for
Vietnam, wanting to see the best for for
the US and Vietnam together. So from
that perspective, you you'll always hear
suggestions, but again, I'll just I'll
just foot stomp what I said a moment
ago. If you're going to succeed in
either market, you really got to do your
homework. You got to be committed to to
to meeting, you know, the needs and the
desires and the requirements in that
market. And that that takes a long-term
approach and um you know it's certainly
what I'm committed to doing. I know it's
what we're committed to doing uh at the
Asia Group. Um and and I can't wait to
continue to come back here on a on a
regular basis and to see if we can drive
as much American investment as possible
in Vietnam that works for both
countries. And as I mentioned, drive as
much investment from other markets uh in
Asia into Vietnam because I think
everyone can see um you know what the
opportunities are here. You could argue
it's the golden age like the past 5 10
years FDI has only grown but it could be
actually a period of even accelerated
velocity of that investment.
>> Absolutely. It's like top 10 into
Vietnam. It's not even top five I think.
>> Yeah. You know if it depends on who you
ask and how you count. most you know I
heard it today I had had the honor of
meeting with um deputy part party
secretary here in in Ho Chi Min City
really really great me really impressive
vision so you know you see this
impressive vision at the national level
you see it here uh at the local level
here in Ho Chi Min City as well but he
he quoted the US as being number nine
and and I guess what I would say is you
know because I'm American and I'm
competitive I always want to be better I
always want to see more American
investment one reason why those I think
those numbers are a little lower than
the reality though is is a lot of
investment that comes in here comes via
Singapore from American companies that
are either headquartered or registered
there and I think those flows get
counted as coming out of Singapore as well.
well.
>> So I I think the numbers are a bit
higher but I either way it's still look
it's still quite quite substantial. Um
and then as I've talked about huge
investment flows from Korea and Japan
and and elsewhere and we hope to
continue playing a role to facilitate
that as well. And and I should should
also underscore uh I'm really excited as
well just in the in the 5 months I guess
since I joined the Asia group we're
talking with a lot of uh Vietnam's
leading companies as well uh about how
they might succeed in the US market or
other overseas markets and again you
know uh how we can help them do that as
well and yeah this really could be the
golden age both you know for Vietnam's
economic development, for US Vietnam
economic ties, but I think some of the
some of the household names of
Vietnamese corporations here in Vietnam
are going to be known uh on the global
stage soon as well. Really excited to be
uh to be a part of it. I know I've said
it a million times, but I'm really
optimistic about Vietnam's future.
really bullish about um you know the
prospects for for Vietnam going forward
and look forward to hopefully being a
part of that.
>> Very good. Uh Dan, last question please
>> for you. Uh we have you on the program
today to share your insights both in
your diplomatic career but also the new
private sector career that you're taking
forward and you know you're still
speaking to the same people though
ironically just in a different way. >> True.
>> True.
>> Um lots of great insights. Thank you so
much. I learned a lot today and I hope
our audience has as well. Um my question
for you would be uh we have you on the
podcast to share insights. Who can we
have on this podcast so that you can
learn from?
>> Oh wow.
>> So it could be not a specific person.
You don't need to name names but an
expert in some industry, a sector, a
topic that you're just really curious
about. Well, if you're if you're asking
me, and I'm going to be selfish, the
kinds of things I'm interested in, I'd
love to hear from some of Vietnam's
corporate leaders about how they see the
same set of issues that we're dealing
with, right? Uh the opportunities for
Vietnam's future growth, some of the
challenges and bottlenecks that they
see. Um a similar analysis of US Vietnam
relations and trade going forward. That
would be fantastic. I'd love if you
bring on uh some of the young
Vietnamese, the the up and cominging
generation that you referenced a moment
ago. I'd love to hear what they're
saying about all of this. How do they
see their own country in its own future?
You know, I'm sitting here as,
>> you know, as an American business
consultant and a former diplomat
pronouncing on what I see and what I
think is happening in Vietnam. I'd love
to hear um if if your Vietnamese
audience and this this really exciting,
talented generation if if they're as
bullish on Vietnam as I am. Um and look,
if you could swing it, uh I'd love to
see you get some uh you know, Vietnamese
and and American officials on here as
well and maybe see what what they say as
well. Uh but I I've really enjoyed our
conversation. I've learned a lot from
you as well and uh can't wait to see who
else you have on the program. I'm I'm
excited to learn from them.
>> Fantastic. Um if anyone listening here
today on today's program feels like they
can help Dan. He'd love to hear from
you. Uh but also vice versa. If you want
to learn from Dan and the Asia Group,
let us know in the comments below. You
have my email, too. You can also
probably reach Dan somewhere on the
internet uh and his team. They'd love to
hear from you. And Dan, uh, like I
mentioned earlier in the podcast, I
think if we did do some sort of program,
um, with our audience, especially the F2
generation, they would
>> absolutely love to hear from you
directly. So, um, we'll have to follow
up with that another time. Uh, everyone,
that was another episode of the Vietnam
Innovators podcast. Daniel Kittenbrink,
partner at the Asia Group and former US
ambassador to Vietnam, possibly one of
the only few people on this planet that
knows the two parties. so well and so
intricately such a pleasure to learn
from you today and I hope to have you on
the podcast again.
>> Thank you. Thanks so much. Really
enjoyed our time. Look forward to the
next session.
>> Very good. Uh thank you guys and see you
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