This analysis explores the theory that Oberyn Martell poisoned Tywin Lannister, arguing that Tywin was likely already dying from poison when Tyrion shot him, and that Oberyn successfully achieved his long-sought vengeance against House Lannister.
Mind Map
Click to expand
Click to explore the full interactive mind map • Zoom, pan, and navigate
did oberin Martell poison Tywin
Lannister would Tywin have died anyway
even if Tyrion hadn't shot him did the
martells actually get the Vengeance they
desired on House Lannister hi everyone
this is Robert welcome to indeep geeek
on this channel we cover A Song of Ice
and Fire in nerdy detail as well as the
Lord of the Rings The Witcher and more
welcome so did Obin Martell poison Tywin
well let's start with the obvious
question of why why many people think
that Tywin had already been poisoned
when Tyrion shot him with that crossbow
because that's the idea we are working
with here Tyrion may have killed Tywin
but it didn't actually make any
difference Tywin would have died anyway
in a few days and with apologies if
you've just had your dinner our first
clue comes with where Tyrion found Tywin
he was on the privy apparently
struggling to relieve himself he had
been sat there for some time it seems at
least long enough time for Tyrion to
creep into his bed chamber talk to sheay
strangle her to death hunt for a weapon
load a crossbow then make his own way to
the privy and when tirian finally shot
Tywin we're told that tywin's bowels
opened and there was a sudden stench a
stink that filled the room fair enough
you might think human bodies can do that
when life ends but it shows that
although Tywin had been sat there a
while his bowels were still full so
there was definitely at least some kind
of constipation going on and the top
toxic smell is mentioned a couple of
times later after tywin's body had been
embalmed and placed on display in the
great sept it gets even more Grim we
read this the king's hand was rotting
visibly his face had taken on a greenish
tinge and his eyes were deeply sunken
two black pits fisures had opened in his
cheeks and a foul white fluid was
seeping through the joints of his
Splendid golden Crimson armor to pool
beneath his body the septons were the
first to see when they returned for
their Dawn devotions they sang their
songs and prayed their prayers and
wrinkled up their noses and one of the
most devout grew so faint that he had to
be helped from the sept that doesn't
sound like a normal corpse there's
something very wrong with it the septons
are professionals at dealing with dead
bodies and one of them had to be helped
from the room so great was the smell
tommen later was physically sick from it
it certainly seems as as if there was
something toxic at work on that body and
as it happens we're told a few chapters
earlier about a poison that would do
exactly what we see happen to Tywin
widows blood Grand maester pyel mentions
it during tyrion's trial for Joffrey's
murder which is completely unrelated to
this murder in case you were wondering I
did a separate video on that widows
blood this one is called he said for the
color a cruel potion it shuts down a
man's bladder and bowels until he drowns
in his own
poisons so we have a poison that shuts
down someone's bladder and bowels until
they drown in their own internal toxins
and Tywin whose bladder and bowels
clearly stopped working properly and
whose body after death seemed to be
consumed by its own toxins oh and that
bottle of widow's blood that pyel talked
about it was stolen mysteriously from
pyel stores yes the notion that Tywin
was poisoned seems pretty strong but why
blame Obin there were a lot of people
who might want Tywin dead well we should
probably start by being clear that
oberin really really wanted Tywin dead
in fact that was the reason he was there
in King's Landing in the first place to
understand why let's go back to before
all the upheaval and Devastation of
Robert's Rebellion Prince rhaegar was
married to Elia Martell oberin's sister
and they had two small children Reise
and Aon
during the sack of King's Landing at the
end of the Rebellion Elia was murdered
as were her two children and not just
killed it was brutal horrible and it was
clear who was to blame the Lannisters in
particular the mountain who we obviously
know and Sir Amory lch who we meet
briefly at Haron Hall in the books and
the order to do it came direct from
Tywin Lannister himself ellia wasn't
just a random member of House Martell
we're told that Obin and she were very
close so close that when she was killed
Obin tried to raise an army to take on
the Lannisters in retribution before
Doren managed to persuade him that that
was Folly and persuaded him to embrace a
longer term plan Vengeance wasn't set
aside just postponed and so for a decade
and more the martells held their fire
and plotted they secretly supported the
restoration of the Targaryen monarchy
because once the targaryens were back
the Lannisters would easier prey Arianne
doran's daughter was secretly betrothed
to viseris the king in Exile but then
that plan fell through viseris died
Drogo poured molten gold over his head
Doran tried to patch things up sending
quent into Meine to try to secure a
marriage to Daenerys but he could no
longer reasonably hold back oberin from
seeking Revenge particularly as the
Lannisters were now very much in control
any pretense that this was a barathan
monarchy was now now gone their
opportunity actually came quite quickly
Tyrion as acting hand of the king at the
time invited Doran to come to King's
Landing and be a part of New King
Joffrey's small Council Tyrion had his
reasons of course at the time the
barathan lanister rain was faced with
what seemed to be an existential threat
from reny barathon in Alliance with the
tyrells Tyrion knew that the laners
needed allies hence him trying to get
Doran on side Tyrion knew enough of the
history between the Martel and the
Lannisters to understand that he would
have to make the offer to come to King's
Landing a good one so as well as a seat
on the small counil he offered Marcella
Lannister's hand in marriage to tristain
Martell and crucially he offered to hand
over the men responsible for killing
Elia Martell and her children Doren
probably knew that he wasn't going to
get a better offer but instead of going
himself he sent oberin of course when
oberin actually arrived Tyrion was no
longer acting hand and his father Tywin
was back in control although he honored
tyrion's offer of a place on the small
Council he had no intention of handing
anyone over to oberin for justice he
told him that ellia and her children had
all been killed by Amory lch and he was
now dead so Justice had been served Obin
was not going to accept that though he
had three targets for Revenge amyy lch
who had indeed been killed by a bear at
Haren Hall Gregor Cain the mountain who
was at the time in the riverlands and
Tywin himself who despite the lack of
documentary evidence had almost
certainly given the order to kill Elia
and her children so one down and two to
go we should be clear that it isn't just
speculation that oberin came to King's
Landing with the specific aim of killing
Tywin Lannister he's very open about it
before he'd even made it inside the city
Gates he says this to Tyrion I did not
come for some M show of an inquiry I
came for for justice for ellia and her
children and I will have it starting
with this lumu Gregor Cain but not I
think ending there before he dies the
enormity that rides will tell me whence
came his orders please assure your lord
father of that he smiled I am a
bloodthirsty man you see and it is me
you must contend with now not my patient
prudent and gouty
brother and the threats don't stop there
your father said Prince oberin may not live
live
forever something about the way he said
it made the hairs on the back of
tyrion's neck bristle suddenly he was
mindful of elier again and all that Obin
had said as they crossed the field of
Ashes he wants the head that spoke the
words not just the hand that swung the
sword strong words and the Red Viper is
exactly the kind of person to back up
his words with actions we should be more
surprised if he hadn't tried to kill
Tywin as well as the other two people he
held responsible Amory lch and the
mountain he took a little bit of
persuading but he did eventually seem to
believe the story that amyy lch had been
killed muled by a bear at Haron Hall to
be fair it sounded like a tall story but
it was the truth his opportunity to kill
the mountain of course came when Gregor
Caine returned to King's Landing to take
part in the trial by combat to decide on
tyrion's fate oberin quickly decided to
fight for Tyrion as it gave him the
opportunity to legally kill Gregor and
despite most people's expectations he
had the best of the fight moving quickly
finding holes in the Mountain's armor
and cutting his hamstrings the mountain
was pinned to the ground and dying all
Obin had to do was walk away and he
would win but instead he went close and
tried to force Gregor to admit his guilt
for the murders of Elia and baby aegon
which he did while grabbing oberin and
killing him as a couple of asides here
Tyrion would have been free if oberin
hadn't been so obsessed with getting
that confession from the mountain Obin
may have been tyrion's Champion but he
wasn't thinking about Tyrion at all just
his own Vengeance and second it's clear
that oberin used poison to be sure of
killing the mountain Obin wasn't just a
theoretical master of poisons he used
them to kill his opponents so Obin died
in killing Gregor Cain and Amy lch died
else where but he didn't get to kill
Tywin or did he Obin would have known
that he couldn't exactly kill Tywin In
Cold Blood in King's Landing so he had
to find another way and as we've said
Obin was known to be a master of poisons
Tyrion thinks about it the very first
time he meets oberin and we are reminded
of it so many times so the motive is
there that's undeniable the means also
he studied potions at the Citadel and
there was that vial of widow's tears
that went missing and finally he had the
opportunity we're told of a private
meeting between oberin Tywin and Mace
Tyrell that fits the timeline we don't
see it but could oberin have had the
opportunity to slip something into
tywin's drink then on any of the other
multiple times Obin is sitting literally
next to Tywin definitely so Obin wanted
to kill Tywin he had the skill and
knowledge to do it the poison he needed
was at hand he had the opportunity to do
it and all the evidence suggests that
Tywin was indeed poisoned which makes it
feel like an open and shut case and I
think that is what happened but just to
address a challenge we noted earlier in
the video lots of people wanted Tywin
dead why don't we suspect them well we
should probably just clarify who these
lots of people are I think it's fair to
say that although team Stark and team
Stannis may have wanted Tywin out of the
way neither would have stooped to poison
him and we don't get any evidence from
either of their camps that such an order
was even considered similarly we have
multiple POV chapters from Cersei Tyrion
and others with not even a hint that
they knew about it so it's not them
either although and this may be
absolutely nothing but I do wonder
whether Tyrion suspected that Tywin was
being poisoned by oberin he knew how
much Obin wanted Tywin dead would have
noted that widow's blood had been stolen
and crucially went to the privy with a
loaded crossbow because he knew that's
where his father would be Shay hadn't
said where Tywin was tyrian just knew if
so tyrion's murder of his father takes a
different turn yes he killed his father
but was it a mercy killing that allowed
Tyrion to vent his anger it's possible
anyway most other theories on who might
have been poisoning tywin's Center on
Varys and it's undeniable that it was in
varys's best interests for Tywin to die
please check out my varis videos if
you're not sure on that point and Varys
does have a track record of killing or
removing competent Lannisters and others
from their posts like Kevin in the
epilogue to A Dance with Dragons for
instance but if we credit Varys with
even a fraction of the intelligence and
intelligence gathering expertise that he
has he will know that Obin wanted to
kill Tywin so he doesn't have to at the
last even Tyrion acknowledges that varis
must have heard oberin's threat to Tywin
several times in fact if Varys had his
little birds listening oberin was giving
them a ripe aall Tyrion thought and then
he wants the head that spoke the words
not just the hand that swung the sword
it is not wise to speak such treasons in
the red keep my prince said Tyrion the
little birds are
listening let them so if varis wanted
Tywin dead why would he bother to get in
the way of oberin who wanted to do it
anyway that way the dornish would get
the blame not him and if Varys was
poisoning Tywin why bother giving Tyrion
such clear instructions on how to get to
tywin's Chambers because he did 230
rungs up the tunnel to the left no more
than 60 ft keep one hand on the wall as
you go you will feel the doors the bed
chamber is the third those are quotes
varis basically told Tyrion how to go
and kill his own father and cut all ties
to the Seven Kingdoms no there's no
reason to believe that Varys poisoned
Tywin he didn't have to oberin had
already done that so although we might
think of obin's Revenge mission to
King's Landing as a glorious failure he
actually achieved all he set out to do
Amory lch was already dead he killed
Gregor Cain even making him admit to his
guilt in elia's death and he killed
Tywin too Tyrion shooting him was
probably a mercy actually though no one
would ever know it yes oberin died but
he gave his life doing what he had
wanted to do for nearly two decades get
Vengeance on the
Lannisters if you'd like to see more
videos about the world of Ice and Fire
there's a link to my playlist on the
left of your screen now or to support
this channel thank you there's a link to
my patreon page on the right of your
screen thanks for watching that's all
Click on any text or timestamp to jump to that moment in the video
Share:
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
One-Click Copy125+ LanguagesSearch ContentJump to Timestamps
Paste YouTube URL
Enter any YouTube video link to get the full transcript
Transcript Extraction Form
Most transcripts ready in under 5 seconds
Get Our Chrome Extension
Get transcripts instantly without leaving YouTube. Install our Chrome extension for one-click access to any video's transcript directly on the watch page.
