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Matt Walsh: Any country that can’t function without American aid has no right to exist_

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Okay. So, I'm gonna um I'm not on X all

that much, but I do read you and

sometimes I I read your tweets and I'm

like, Matt Walsh, ladies and gentlemen,

spinning people up. Here's one. We've

been saying for many years that gay

adoption surrogacy should be illegal.

Now, everyone else seems to be catching

on. This is an

abomination. We've been saying for many

years that gay adoption is an

abomination. I I've never heard anybody

say that. Uh wow, we're just diving

right in. We're diving right in. Day

adoption is an abomination.

Yeah. Well, I I think there I was

referring to uh social conservatives

because social conservatives still

somehow get a bad rap. So, you know,

so-called social conservatives. Um even

among other conservatives and other

people on the right, uh it seems to me.

But, so when I say we, I mean like

so-called social conservatives. I've

never heard them say that. I've never

heard anybody I I think I agree with

what you said, but I'm not I don't think

I've ever heard a single person say

that. But everyone seems to be afraid to

say that. Uh yeah, most people are.

That's why I think uh but but you know

so-called social conservatism is is

that's why it's not popular even even on

the right. Uh is can I ask you about is

there anything more hated on the right

than social conservatism? I I don't

think so. So you could say like I think

we should drop an atomic bomb on a bunch

of people and just like kill them all

and their kids and people are like well

that's a really good idea. But if you're

like actually we should like save some

kids then they hate you. What is that?

Yeah. Or if we should we should we

should probably we should look at the

way

that human society was structured for

thousands of

years and we should probably consider

that they were right about a lot of that

stuff. You know, maybe not everything,

right? Maybe not everything, but there

there are just certain basic

civilizational truths that uh we have

moved away from in recent decades.

Uh but I don't think there was any good

reason to move away from them. And so if

if human beings did something a certain

way for literally millennia in every

civilization that we know

of, it's it's probably right. I mean,

there's probably it's there's probably a

lot to be said for it. Again, not in

every case, but in in most cases. So

it's worth pondering anyway. It tells

you something. If right if every

civilization none of which that we know

of had contact with each other came to

the same conclusions. Exactly. So so

it's something like the uh you know gay

adoption that and this is this isn't the

only argument against it but I think it

is a worthwhile argument that there's

never been a society anywhere on earth

anywhere period where they have had two

men in a romantic relationship starting

a family. That's just that's never

existed. It's always been a man and a

woman start a family or in certain

ancient civilizations and even some

primitive ones today you might have a

man and several women you might have

polygamy. Um that's a pretty common

feature I would say. Certainly common

but you never had and why do you have

polygamy? I'm not I don't support

polygamy but there was a logic to it

especially in ancient times. Yes. You

got to create people you know and the

whole point is to create the whole point

of the family is to make children and

care for them.

Um, and you know, a a family that's

headed up by two gay men

is that's why it's it's a it's an

abomination. It's just Well, it never

happened before and now it's happening.

And that's why we call it progress,

right? This is progress. It's something

that never been done. Yeah. And well,

it's it's progress in the way it's

progress in the way that cancer

progresses, you know. Oh, so when I when

I hear about

progressivism, I think of I think of

progressivism. It is progress. So we're

at stage four gay right now, would you

say? Oh, yeah. Sta full on stage four.

Yeah. Terminal. It's a It's a terminal

case. Yeah. So yeah, I figured why not

just jump right into it. So um but what

is So I think you make a obvious and

very fair and smart point. We should pay

attention to the way things have always

been done because maybe we can learn

something. It's like discarding it all

French Revolution style doesn't end

well. I totally agree. But what's the

the more affirmative detailed case

against it? These kids don't have homes

and here are two loving parents to watch

over the child. Why is that bad? Yeah.

Well, I think that there are a couple of

things. First of all, it's it's

interesting to note that when this

conversation about gay parenthood first

started really in earnest, like 10 years

ago, most of the conversation was

focused on adoption and gay men want to

adopt. But now what's happened is

there's been a shift and now you've got

a lot of these gay couples that are

turning to surrogacy. Mhm. So, they're

renting wombs, you know, they're renting

the the they're they're purchasing the

body parts of women and renting them,

using them like an Airbnb rental. Um,

wait, I thought we got rid of slavery.

Yeah, I I would have thought, but this

is uh this is exactly this is the in a

very literal sense the objectification

of a human being, treating them like an

object, using them as an object. So,

it's just interesting. There was a study

done recently a survey a couple years

ago actually that found that it was like

60 plus% of gay

couples when they think about parenting

they would prefer surrogacy. So it's a

it's the slight of hand trick you see on

the left a lot where they they want to

bring about some social change and they

they present an argument for it but then

once they get what they want they

abandon that and then you you kind of

you figure out what they actually

wanted. So, it's kind of like adoption

has given way to surrogacy. And then the

whole argument, which I didn't I never

bought, which is that we're rescuing

kids who are in these terrible

situations in foster care. That's out

the window because these are not kids

that you're rescuing. You're creating

them rather than rescuing a kid from an

unfortunate situation. You're creating

them to be in an unfortunate situation

from birth, which is a which is a

different thing. So, that's the first

thing. And the second thing is that um

even if we're talking but would you

concede

that one upside to a collapsing

post-industrial economy is there are a

ton of poor people who are willing to

have babies for profit.

I don't know that I would call that an

upside just like this is so like yeah

that's a people don't take three steps

back like if this were happening and if

you know Dickens were writing about this

in the 1850s you'd be like wow you know

London's a very screwed up place. Yeah.

where we're taking advantage of the

poor. Like that's the step beyond

prostitution. I mean, it really is

treating someone as you said correctly

as an object. But there's but there's

also the the fundamental point whether

it's surrogacy or

adoption. The fundamental

point

is what does the child have a right to?

We we keep hearing about right we hear

about uh this right to parenthood. I

mean, you have gay couples now that are

that are demanding insurance cover

fertility treatments as if the reason

why two men can't make a baby is because

of fertility problems. No, it's because

of the laws of nature. But and that is

that is cloaked under this it's it's

sort of under this umbrella of why I

have I have a right to parenthood. No,

you don't have a right to what does that

mean? No one has a right to be a parent.

Uh it's great to be a parent if you can,

but you're not born with this like

entitlement. you're entitled to a child.

What the hell does that mean? Rather

than talking about the right of the

parent, let's talk about the right of

the child. And this also this applies to

so many other this applies to abortions.

This applies to a lot of topics. Um what

does the child have a right to and I

would say a child has a right to a

mother and a father? A child has a right

the basic fundamental

uh setup that that you know billions of

kids throughout history have had which

is a mother and a father. Now if through

the course of events through no one's

fault that is taken away from a child I

mean you can have a parent that dies you

end up with a single parent. You can

have a divorce which I think is

terrible. Um but it's not supposed to

work that way.

So, if you have a child in foster

care, you're looking for a mother and a

father. And to just say, "Okay, well,

we'll give this child to two dads."

You're basically giving up on that

child. You're saying, "Well, yeah, we

could we couldn't find the right setup

for you, so instead you're getting

this." And I just reject that. I reject

that totally.

Um, and I also think frankly

that you know a lot of people won't like

this but but but I I I think we've

passed the point where Yeah. Right. No

one likes anything that we're saying uh

a child being in foster care is is far

from an ideal scenario. It's very very

sad. Uh a child going to two gay parents

I think is worse. I think it's I think

it's easily worse actually. Why? um it's

just more disordered. It's more

confusing for the child. Um again,

neither neither scenario is good. We

don't like either thing, but

um I I don't see going

to, you know, gay parents as an

improvement over the the the what they

had before. So, do we know that it

screws kids up or we just sort of

intuitively know it? I think we

intuitively know, but also there's been

plenty of studies done about um the

mental health effects of kids that grow

up in these, you know, single sex,

same-sex parent homes. There's been a

lot of studies done about it, but but

honestly, I don't you can look at the

studies, people will fact check and

they're there. I I just I don't need

studies for this. It's it's the same

thing with the trans topic. You

know, from the very beginning when we

started talking about that, you had all

these people saying, "Well, where are

the studies? Where are the studies

showing that we shouldn't chemically

castrate a 5-year-old or, you know, or

or a

12-year-old?" Well, there are studies

now that will bear that out, but I

didn't we don't need a study to tell us

that. This should be this should be

intuitive. We just intuitively know it.

There are c certain things as human

beings that we just know. And one of

them is that sexually mutilating a child

is bad. Another one is that a child

needs a mother and father. We just

intuitively know that. I don't need any

study. I don't care what any academic

says about it. I don't

care. So when you were born, the AIDS

the AIDS crisis, AIDS was um sort of in

its early years. And there were famous

people who had AIDS, who died of AIDS,

who lied about why they were dying

because they don't want to admit that

they were gay. So that was the world you

were born into. Um, now being gay is

like an advantage in college admissions

in a lot of schools and um in hiring. So

like we it's moved completely. It's like

the opposite of what it was in 40 years.

Why do you think that happened and what

do you think its effects are?

Uh yeah, I think that's

um it's the collapse of well it's just

this war on it's kind of what we started

with. It's this war on normaly on on on

civilization really. It's part of the

anti-f family agenda. Um the antihuman

agenda

uh and I think that and that's that's

always been there. Why did it catch on

though to such an extent? I think that

this the side that was supposed to stand

for the family and stand up for

civilization largely failed and

abdicated their responsibility to do so.

You know, conservatives uh the church uh

has just largely

failed and not even failed. Not even

tried really. Not not even tried. Why is

that?

fear,

cowardice, um,

uh,

hypocrisy. I mean, I mean, hypocrisy in

in the in the actual sense, in the

literal sense, of not someone who, you

know, says something and does another,

but, someone who claims to believe

something they don't, which, is what

actual hypocrisy is. Um, and so we have

a lot of hypocrites on the right and in

the church, unfortunately, who are just

claiming to believe things they don't

really believe. And so I think that the

answer is it's like why why

don't why why aren't there enough

pastors in any church in any

denomination standing up and talking

about these issues and leading you know

leading on these issues and uh the

answer is well there's a lot of cowards

but also a certain portion of them don't

really believe it. I mean they don't

believe it's like whether or not they

really believe in God is a question.

So I think that that's a that's a part

of it too. What do you think the fact of

it has

been? Not not just the acceptance of

homosexuality, but the celebration of

it. Like what I remember hearing, you

know, 30 years ago when this was

gathering steam, people saying, "Well,

why? It's not a threat to you. You know,

gays aren't going to break into your

house and, you know, force forcibly make

you gay or something like why do you

care?" And I thought that, you know,

kind of made sense to me at the time.

Um, but

I there's a sense that's just not true

actually that it did have a big effect

on everybody else. Do you think that it

certainly did

because because it's always a lie

obviously when they say, "Oh, this isn't

we just want to do what we want to do

and we're not it does it won't affect

you and we we we don't need you to be

involved."

Um, this is just what we're doing in the

privacy of our own homes.

That was a good argument though, don't

you think? In in theory, in principle,

it's a good I'm just saying as a as a

kind of matter of slogans, you know,

like that's better than just do it for

Nike or have a coconut smile. That's

like a really effective ad campaign for

Americans cuz that matches the American

instinct like you know, live and let

live. And there's and there's a certain

it it it it makes sense to an

extent

that if someone across the street from

me is in their home doing some freaking

weird stuff and that's it. They're just

in their home doing it and I never even

know about it or see it. My children

don't see it. My children don't know

about it. Uh then yeah, it's hard to

make an argument that I'm somehow

impacted by that because I'm not except

maybe in the most indirect sort of way.

But that's not that's not how it

actually works. That's just the slogan.

That's not what really happens. And so

we follow the trajectory and we've seen

this time and time again. It always

starts

with tolerance. They say, "Well, just

just tolerate

this, which which is which I guess we're

supposed to think

means, you know, just people are doing

this on their own. You don't have to you

could just stay out of it and they'll

stay away from you and just tolerate it,

right?"

um tolerance. So it starts

there, but then it goes to very quickly

acceptance. Then then they start saying,

well, you should accept this. Well,

accept and tolerate are not exactly the

same thing. How are they different?

Well, tolerate means I just like put up

with it. I allow it. I allow it. I put

up with it. I don't try to stop it,

right? Is what tolerance means in in the

most literal sense. accept

means I'm embracing it, right? You know,

it means I'm embracing it.

And but then they don't stop at

accepting because then they go to well,

okay, now actually we need you to

celebrate it, you know. So it's it goes

from tolerance to acceptance to

celebration and um pretty fast actually.

Pretty fast. Yeah. I think I think there

there was a time when that process might

have taken you know 10 years and now it

seems like it takes 10 minutes.

Um, so we we went from decades ago it

was, hey, they're just in their private

in their private lives, in their own

homes doing this, doesn't affect you, to

now, well, they're I mean, literally

marching in the street, you know, in

leather bondage gear, like flaunting in

front of confused children standing

there having sex on the street actually.

Yeah. Right. Engaged in sexual acts. A

and even worse than that, they're going

into the school systems. They're putting

this stuff in the school. They're

they're trying to tell my kids when my

kids aren't in the school system, but

you know, they're trying to tell our

kids. Do the authorities know your kids

aren't in the school system? They do

now. We still I'm in Tennessee, so we

still have we still have that right in

Tennessee so far. But then they start

going into the school system and they

start they start promoting this. They

start trying to tell our kids that uh

that you should also tolerate this and

accept it and embrace it and and

celebrate it.

Um there's this kind of there's

a you know what what what they're

telling kids in school about

homosexuality for example is not just

biology. There's a moral message.

They're giving them a moral message and

the moral message is this is okay.

There's nothing wrong with it. It's this

is you know a gay couple is equal in

every way to a straight couple. These

are just different variations. You know

it's a it's morally neutral. That's

their message. That's that's ideology.

That's not biology. And um and once you

start doing that then it's like very

clear how this affects me you know but

how does it affect the society?

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below. It scramles the gender roles.

That's what I notice and that's what

upsets me most because I think

everything is built on biology on nature

and gender roles are a function of

nature and I think if you scramble that

if you confuse that if you convince

people that there's no difference

between men and women like that's when

civilization falls then you have like

women fighting your wars. Yeah. You know

what I mean? And that's and gender roles

is another one

uh that again it goes back

to sus human civilization worked a

certain way for thousands of years and

it seemed to work. Uh and we went from

you know mud huts to uh walking on the

moon if you believe we walked on the

moon which I absolutely do. Uh boy you

are taking some bold positions this.

That is bold. That is bold. You're

taking on the entire internet. We so we

went we went from from there to there

uh with a kind of basic structure with a

basic setup. Gender roles is one of

them. There's like this ba you they were

so basic so fundamental that you didn't

even you didn't have a word for it. You

know if you go back to 1700 and use the

term gender roles to anyone they're not

going to have any idea what the hell

you're talking about even though their

entire society is structured around it.

Exactly. And uh and this is true even

now if you go if you go outside of the

kind of liberal western bubble which

I've done which I've done once when we

were doing what is a woman I went to we

went to Kenya and we talked to the

Messiah tribe in in in Kenya. Did they

know what a woman was? They did know

what a woman

was. They were confused by the question

not because they didn't know the answer

but because they couldn't possibly

understand why it would even be asked.

Right. Right.

Um, but then I even I remember a lot of

this didn't make it in the movie because

it was it wasn't totally connected, but

talking about gender roles with them.

And again, they had no idea what that

term even

meant. But their whole society is

completely structured around it. It was

if you're a man, this is what you do. If

you're a woman, this is what you do. And

that's it. And um and I remember asking

one of the the women. I was in their in

her uh her hut which is actually made of

like cowdung and it's a one room hut and

they all sleep on one bed, you know, mud

mud floor. And she was telling me what

she does all day as the woman of the

house which is she takes care of the

house, she takes care of the kids. And

uh I asked her if she was happy doing

this and she she laughed at me because

it was such a ridiculous question cuz of

course she is. And then I asked about

depression and this might be in the

movie. I said, you know, where I come

from, there's a lot of people are

depressed. And one of the guys said to

me, well, we don't have that here. We

don't we don't do that. We don't have we

don't have depression. That's not a

thing here.

Um, and that's not and you

know, of course there's unhappiness.

It's not like a utopia. I wouldn't want

to live there to to be perfectly uh

clear about it. But uh you do notice

that in these societies that are

structured around gender roles, there

just there's a lot of anxiety and

hang-ups that they don't have because

they know they have a basic concept of

who they are and what they're supposed

to do. Well, they're not at war with

nature every day, right? You you can't

beat nature. If if I go out into a

blizzard with my boxer shorts, I don't

care what, you know, my resolve level is

or my courage. It's like I'm going to

freeze to death because you can't beat

nature because it's bigger than you

because God created it, right? And and

and uh and we are certainly discovering

that in this in this culture. And that's

why, you know, you you can go on Tik Tok

any which I don't recommend, but you can

go on Tik Tok anytime and you can it's a

whole genre of video now on Tik Tok

where you've got these young women. It's

it's usually it's usually young women

who do these videos, these selfie videos

where they're in

tears crying because they went out into

the working world and they found it so

miserable and depressing and empty and

they just hate it and they don't want to

work and they don't want to do it and

they just and they're in despair over

it.

Um and and that's that's exactly what's

what's happened. I think we were we were

you know the message to win. So you're

not only against gay adoption, you're

against women working at banks.

yeah, for the most Where did she get all

these opinions? You know, it it's not

the ideal setup cuz I mean, and just to

clear, I don't

uh I think that there there are families

where both parents have to work. I think

there are a lot of families where they

think both parents have to work, but

they don't actually have to. Uh, it just

depends on what your priorities are and

if you're willing to make the

sacrifices. I I think most families if

you you know people say to me all the

time, well, I'd love to have I'd love

for it to be one income. I'd love to

homeschool. I'd love to have a family

like we can't afford it. Um, I mean, but

you went to Harvard and had a big trust

fund. It's easy for you to say, right?

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. No, you didn't have

any trust fund and you didn't even go to

college and you worked at Blockbuster

and then you told me this last night at

dinner. I had no idea. You worked at a

couple Blockbusters. I did. Yeah. Yeah.

I was an assistant manager on the boat.

Is that true? It was. That's how low

their standards were towards the end. It

was definitely toward the end. I left

Blockbuster and then they went out of

business shortly thereafter. So you you

can connect the dots on that one. It's

not the fir by the way. It's not the

first company you've worked at that's no

longer with us, which is interesting.

You are the destroyer. Um but you you

got how old when you got married? 25.

Then your how long after that did your

wife get pregnant with twins? It was

about a year. year and a half. Yeah. Did

um in that point, I assume she was

raising the twins, right? Right. Yeah.

Yeah. We we uh Yeah. I was working I was

making about $40,000 a year at the time.

Half that when we first got married, but

by the time we had kids, I was making

about $40,000 a year. And that was the

only income in the family. That was the

only income in the family. And no trust

fund at all? No. No. No. Uh I No. when

we uh no savings of any kind, you know,

this was a

time there there there was one time I

remember I went to the gas station to

get gas and my card was declined, got

insufficient funds and uh and I I'm at

the gas station, I have no money. I

can't and the gas tank is empty cuz like

when you're broke, your gas is always

almost empty and so I have no gas. I

insufficient funds and I remember

thinking this is after I had two kids

already. This is how broke we were. Um,

but I remember thinking, I'm gonna have

to ask someone at a gas station for

money. I'm gonna have to do this. I

can't believe I'm gonna have to. But I

didn't. I just started looking under the

under the chair for coins. And I found

about like a buck 50 in coins. And I

went and paid for gas. A buck 50 worth

of gas in coins. Enough to get home. And

then we'll figure out the problem. But

anyway, the point is we we had no money.

Um, we were very broke. And you know,

money went a little bit farther back

then, but not that much farther. I mean,

this was this wasn't 50 years ago,

right? How many years ago was this was

11 years ago?

11 years ago. All of us remember 11

years ago. It was same country. Yeah, it

was the same country. And um and we had

so we we had one we we decided we wanted

to have one income. We wanted to have a

one-inccome family. So family of four on

one income. It was not a it was not a a

high income at all. It can be done. I

think in most cases, you just have to be

willing to make the sacrifices. And a

lot of people aren't. And that's fine,

too, because you have to decide on what

your priorities are. And so, you might

say, "Look, it's a priority to us that

we um have a big enough house that each

person can have their own room. We don't

want to share rooms for kids. It's a

priority to us that we have two cars,

that we can go on vacation, a nice

vacation once a year, that we can have

two or three uh TVs, that everyone can

have a smartphone with all the plans,

and we want to have, you know, we want

to have five different streaming

subscriptions, and we want to be able to

eat out whenever we want. Like, that's a

priority to us. And okay, if that's a

priority, then yeah, in mo in a lot of

cases, you're going to need uh double

income. But if you're willing to say,

"Okay, we're going to we're going to

downsize our home. Uh, we're going to

share bedrooms. We're going to have one

TV. We're going to have one

car. We're going to have we're going to

go on much more modest

vacations and um, and we're going to cut

things down to the bone a bit because

it's worth it to us to be able to keep

mom at home and to be able to homeschool

or whatever it is. So, I think if you're

if you're willing to say that, a lot of

people could do it. But, do you think it

is worth it?

Yeah, absolutely. Why? 100%.

Um because a lot of the other stuff

doesn't matter really. It's like there's

no happiness in that. Um I I think I

think that's clearly true. Uh on the

other hand, you know, it's it's a drag

not having enough money. I've had more

than enough money most of my life, but I

have had periods where didn't have

enough and had to sell stuff. And

everyone goes through that and it's a

it's a it's a bummer. It's it's it's

very hard. Like I say, yeah, I having

gone through it, it's it's it's really

difficult. I I much prefer having money

to not having

it, but

uh not at the expense of having someone

else raise my kids. So, what's the

upside of, you know, making the

conscious decision to have the mother of

your children raise those children?

the downside. I mean, you just you just

described it like you're going to

sacrifice in order to get that, but if

you do get that, what do you get?

Uh happiness in the in the home is a is

a big thing. Not not perfectly happy.

It's not you're going to have your your

problems and your struggles and some of

them might may be financial and there

can be some real misery that comes from

that. I don't I don't deny

it. But it's just a fundamentally

happier home in my experience.

uh when the children are being raised by

their mother, by their parents, the kid

the kids are happier. Uh and and beyond

happiness, you you can control how your

children are raised and you can raise

them with a your value system and

maintain that which which

is almost impossible if you're putting

your kids in public school. say it's

almost impossible because the kids are

going to they're going to

spend 5 days a week, you know, 7 hours a

day, 9 months a year for 12 or 13 years

of their formative years, uh, not with

you or your or your wife in this

government indoctrination center around

their peers. And so inevitably they're

going to be

absorbing, they're going to start

orienting themselves to the world based

on that by looking at their peers, not

even so much what their teachers are

telling them, but what their peers are

doing. And that's what's going to

happen. So so, so at a at a certain

point, you're going to

lose you run the risk that you're just

going to lose them. And that's why you

have these parents who turn around and

uh everything they've instilled in their

kids seems to have just gone out the

window.

And I think this is a big reason why.

But then we're told that if you don't do

that, if you don't submit to the

culture, then your kids are out of step

with their peers. They're weird. They

never quite fit in. They're just weird.

They're

weird. Is that a risk? Is that a

meaningful downside? Like, what do you

think of that? I don't think it's

meaningful. I Weird

is There are bad kinds of weird, but

this is a good kind of weird. Um, yes.

Yeah, I hear this a lot. People will

say, "Well,

how do you socialize them?" Yeah. How do

you socialize them?

Do you want to have Do you want to keep

your kid in a bubble? Yes. And it's

like, yeah, I do. I I absolutely want to

keep my kids in a bubble. I really do.

Um, not not, you know, but are they

getting enough porn if they're in that

bubble? Right. Enough porn, enough time

on TikTok. I mean all that all that sort

of thing. That's that's the point. You

you are supposed to be providing an

environment for your child to grow and

develop and mature physically, morally,

spiritually, uh to have a childhood,

have actual childhood experiences. I

hear from people all the time, people my

age and older that say, "Oh man, I

remember when I was a kid and we were

outside, we would run around in the

woods and we would be outside all the

time playing tag. And I just wish my

kids had that because kids these days

are just on the screens all day. They

don't have a real childhood. And I say

that your kids can have that. There's no

reason why they can't have it. My kids

have that. I I work in media and and yet

my kids have exactly that kind of

childhood because we just determined

from the beginning that our kids are

they're going to have a real childhood.

They are going to run outside and scrape

their knees and and climb trees and

that's what they're going to do. That's

the kind of that's the kind of childhood

they should have and it is possible to

have it. The only difference now is that

it has to be a choice. You know, I think

I think 30 years

ago that was just the default more than

a choice. I mean, you have to organize

Well, you're the one with six kids who

are homeschooled, so you tell me. But it

it sounds from the outside like you have

to reorganize your entire life around

that goal.

You do. It doesn't happen naturally.

Right. Right. It doesn't happen

naturally. That's why I said it has to

be a priority. if it's an actual

priority, if you really are

lamenting that kids today don't have a

real childhood, which I agree. I think

that many of them don't and I think it's

a horrible tragedy. It really is.

Um, but if you really care about that

and if it troubles you, then yeah, you

have to you have to make So, what if you

I mean, if you don't mind, if this is

too personal, just just say stop being

so creepy and and I will pull back. But

if you don't mind, like describe in

specific terms the steps that you've

taken to protect your children and allow

them a childhood in in a world that

would deny them one like what have you

done? Well, it starts with what we don't

send them to public school. You know, we

we have always homeschooled from the

beginning. So, that's a big step. Uh

they don't have phones. They don't have

access to any screens except for our

family TV. We have a family TV. Uh we

don't do there's a policy my wife and I

have had since the beginning is we don't

do screens be there will be no screens

in a room that has a door on it. Uh so

we have one TV and it's in a very public

area of the house where anyone can hear

it when they walk in and and that's it.

So we do have that like our kids can

watch TV. They can't watch it all day

but they can watch it and we're going to

know anything that they watch. you know,

they're not going to just sit there on

the TV and choose something. Tell us

what you want to watch. If it's

something I never heard of, well, you're

not watching that until I can watch it

first.

Um, and they don't have any internet

access at all. You know, no phones, no

tablets, nothing like that. Laptop, no

laptop, no no computer at all. And, uh,

our oldest kids are almost 12 now. The

the only exception we make is if we go

on long car rides, which for us is 4

hours plus, then we have tablets that

are for the car, 4 hour plus car ride.

There's no internet on it. It's books

and like educational games and and and

the tablets have that. And in the car,

if it's four plus hours, you can use

those tablets. Um and then when we get

to our destination, we're taking the

tablets back. And I and I've and

I've and I've noticed this that that

even this this little bit of access to

this that kind of technology that we do

give to our kids in the car in this

really Yeah. in this really specific

scenario.

You see how this it just has this pull

on them. Yeah. And it becomes a

especially if it's one, you know, we

sometimes go places, it's a 15 hour, 16

hour ride over a couple of days. So

during that time, they do have the

tablets for a while. And when we get

there, it's almost like a detox. Yeah.

They they they're they're just they're

they're jonesing for the giving them one

jelly bean. They want more. Exactly.

Exactly. And I had uh and I've had to

take, you know, what some people would

consider extreme steps uh to get them

over that. How how extreme. Well, to me,

it's not extreme because it's like what

my dad would have done, but I remember

it was last year. We had just come back

from a long car ride and uh so we took

the tablets away and then my my son who

was seven at the

time freaked out like he he want he

started screaming that he wanted his

tablet. Yeah. And I said, "No, we

don't we're not that family. We don't we

don't have seven-year-olds screaming

about tablets. We're not going to do

that." And so I I said, "Come here, bud.

Come over here." I brought them over to

the where our trash can is in the

kitchen and I said, "Here's where the

tablet's going. It's in the trash." And

um and that's it. We're throwing it

away. You're not getting it back. Did he

have a funeral for it? Uh you know,

emotionally in his heart, he did. He was

he was shocked. I He was He was

distraught. Um but we threw it away. I

didn't give it back to him. it it went

in the trash and uh like a year later he

got a new one

um for the

car and he freaked out and about 10

minutes later he was fine and he was

running around outside using a stick

like a lightsaber or whatever. But it

shows you why most parents despite I

think wanting to do what you do I do

think a lot of parents will hear this

and say man I would like to do that or I

should have done that. Um, but the

reason they don't is the push back from

the kids is really intense. Denying

kids electronics, denying them what all

of their peers, what all their friends

have, like it's it's hard. It is hard.

It is hard. And especially if it it's

easier uh we have it a little bit easier

because our kids are

homeschooled and most of their friends

are like homeschooled Christian families

and most of them are on the same page.

Not all of them, but most of them are.

And it just it does make it easier. It

certainly does. Uh if your kids in

public school, it's going to be a lot

harder because they

are there there's a whole culture, you

know, that comes out of these out of the

screens, out of the the devices, there's

a language that comes out of it. And

when I when I see one of my kids, like

one of the

12-year-olds or or the 8-year-old around

one of their peers who are not part of

the homeschool community, but just like

a, you know, a kid from public school or

something, the difference is is stark.

Uh, it really is in in every way. You

can just the way that they speak. Like I

said, they have a different language

that they pick up. Um, the way that they

carry

themselves. I think a lot of these kids

are a lot more just sort of jaded and

cynical. They seem a lot harder to

impress. They're overstimulated. Yes.

They're not interested in things outside

of the

screen.

Um, you know, my son, my 12-year-old son

is, and I was the same way when I was

when I was his age. I'm still this way,

but he goes through these phases where

he becomes really obsessed with a

certain topic, and it changes. It'll

it'll change every four to six months.

He picks a new topic that he's just

obsessed with. It's the only thing he

cares about is this topic. And it could

be anything from he went through a phase

where where he was obsessed with Indian

Native American culture. It could be

Lord of the Rings. It could be uh

anything. Space, you know, he did a

dinosaur thing as a lot of boys do.

Anyway,

uh so when he's around his friends or

he's around other kids, he wants to talk

about whatever that is. He wants to talk

about this this thing that he's really

interested in and he'll learn everything

there is to know about it. He'll end up

knowing more about the subject than I

do. I'm learning from him about it. Um

but he'll be around these other kids and

he wants to that's what he wants to talk

about. He wants to talk about, hey, let

me tell you this really interesting

thing I learned.

And uh with some of these kids, they'll

look at him like he's like he's weird,

you know, because that's just

not they don't do that. They they want

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ExpressVPN.com/tucker. What do you think

of video games?

I've gotten a lot of trouble with uh

some some in my audience. You're not

allowed to criticize video games or

marijuana. Those are the two things

you're not allowed to criticize. You

really can't. You really can't. Um which

which to me only validates a lot of the

criticisms that people are that attached

to it. Because here's here's my thing

with video games. I I don't think

there's anything intrinsically wrong

with them.

We don't we don't do video games with

our kids because it's a screenbased

activity and we've just decided that

we're not our kids are not going to have

a childhood dominated by screens and so

we're just not going to do that. That's

a decision that we made. But there's

nothing intrinsically wrong with them.

Uh I I think I

would a lot of the the gamers they'll

they'll anytime I I offer some mild

criticism of you know video games or

what's your mild criticism?

It's not about the game itself. It's

about it's about the attachment to it.

You know it's about it's about revolving

your whole life around it. And so the

when we get into this conversation, the

uh video game fans will say to me,

"Well, this is no different. You know,

you're a football fan," which I am. I'm

a big NFL

fan and uh they say, "Well, what's

what's the difference between playing a

video game and watching football on a

Sunday afternoon?" And I think that's a

valid point. I think that there probably

is little difference. I think there's a

little bit of a difference, but not

much. And I would say the same thing

about being a sports fan that it it's

fine to like sports. I do. I love

football. It shouldn't dominate your

life. And there are people out there who

it just do their sports fandom is the

central thing about them. It's their

whole personality. And that's excessive.

That should not be your personality. You

know, your your affinity for some group

of guys playing a game should not be

your personality. It shouldn't be your

identity. And I and I and that's my

point about video games. That's it. So

that's why I say it's a very mild

criticism. You want to play the games,

that's fine. You don't need my

permission.

But it should not be the central fact of

your life. It shouldn't be your number

one priority. You shouldn't have an

um a a a an attachment to it. You

shouldn't have a, you know, a a a an

excessive

attachment to it. That's

it. And I think that's pretty

reasonable. You know, why are people

touchy about that?

people are they they it's part of the

culture. People take their people take

their entertainment and their recreation

very

seriously and I think for a lot of

people it just that is their the central

fact of their identity and so they kind

of take it personally. They take it as a

personal attack which is not how I mean

it. Where are you on marijuana?

Uh I I think it's awful. I think it's

terrible. I I used to have a more kind

of libertarian view of it. Yeah. Uh if

you were to go back 10 years, 15 years,

my view was I don't like it personally,

but you were never a weed smoker. I I've

had it. I've never been uh years and

years and years ago. Not not not in

adulthood. Uh it's not for me. It's not

for me. But and my view used to be well

it's not for me

but probably all this I kind of bought

into the war on drugs thing and all this

money that we're spending to try to stop

people for smoking it is a waste and so

it should probably just be legal even if

I don't like it. Uh there's this

argument from the marijuana fans that

well it's no different from uh than

alcohol and we know how prohibition of

alcohol worked out and so if we're going

to allow people to go out and get a

drink why shouldn't they be able to go

out worked out pretty well I think I

think cerosis deaths went way down

didn't they did yeah I yeah so I'm not

I'm not convinced by the argument for

that reason I'm also not entirely

convinced that alcohol and marijuana

are are comparable

uh for for one thing and alcohol can be

really bad and it there's addiction and

it destroys it can destroy families and

lives. Alcohol is though at least a more

social it's a social lubricant. Mhm. So

if you're with a group of people and

you're you're having a drink, it can

help you have kind loosen up. You have a

better time as long as you're not being

excessive. Now, if somebody gets

trashed, then it kind of ruins the time

for everyone, and that can happen. I

think marijuana is not like that. It's

it it it

it kind of turns you inward. It makes

you

antisocial, you know? So, if you're

sitting around a table with some people

and a couple of them are drinking a

beer, even if you're not drinking, you

can have a perfectly nice time. But if

you're sitting around a table and a

couple of the people are

stoned, it's like

that's it's lame. You don't even want to

talk to that person. They've got nothing

to contribute. Yeah. Um does seem to

isolate people. Yeah. I think it's

isolating. I think it turns you I think

it turns you inward. But regardless of

all that, my my my opinion was Yeah. It

should probably just be legal. But I

also believe in when you get new data,

you get new facts, you need to analyze

them. You need to be willing to change

your mind.

And so we we have legalized it in many

places across the country in many cities

and I've been to these cities as many of

us have where where weed is now it's

like cigarettes were 30 years ago.

Everybody's smoking and I think the

early returns are not good.

You don't think Denver and New York are

pretty great? I really don't. I think

they're quite it's it's quite terrible.

It's not all because of

weed but

Just the experience of walking around,

everybody's high, it reeks of weed

everywhere. How has this made anyone's

life better? That's my question. That's

what I want to know. I I'd be willing to

adjust my view on this. And I've asked

this question before. I haven't gotten a

satisfactory

answer, but we've made weed legal in a

lot of these

places. In what way has it impas has it

impas has it measurably improved life

anywhere now that it's legal? Well, I

don't know. I mean, it's degraded people

to the point where they're very easy to

control. Don't you think that's an

upside? So, if you're like running a

criminal enterprise posing as a

government and you don't want people to

rebel violently against you, then you

give them drugs, so they won't. And if I

was if I was uh in a position of power

politically, then maybe I'd feel that

way. But for me, I mean, that that does

like take three steps back like what is

this? The whole population is like

adultled with something, you know?

The ladies are on benzo, the kids are on

amphetamines, the young men are on weed.

Yeah. Like no one's in his right mind,

but everybody's kind of grooving out to

his own music and testosterone levels

have just like dropped through the floor

and so probably not going to have an

insurrection when everyone's high,

right? Yeah. It makes people compliant.

It makes them

uh apathetic even more than I think

people just sort of naturally are these

days. And of course in reality these are

all bad things. So it kind of goes back

to how has it made anyone's life better?

And right and I don't know I'm a I'm I'm

a simple person. Maybe I can be guilty

of being simplistic

sometimes. So if that's the case then

guilty is charged. But to me, it's

like I think a policy is

bad if it makes people's lives worse and

doesn't improve anything. What if it

works in theory? What if it's a

beautiful theory?

Well, theories are great. Then we it's

then we can talk about it. Then it's a

lot of fun to talk about. It's like that

that famous the de Gaul line which I

think is probably fake. We know it works

in practice. The question is does it

work in theory? Yeah. I do feel like

that's in in operation in the United

States. It's like, well, you know,

people have the right to X, Y, or Z.

Therefore, we're doing this. And it's

like, actually, that's a disaster, but

people have a right. You know what I

mean? It's like there's no reference

point in reality there. It's just like

the theory makes sense. Let's go with

it. Yeah. And that's why I increasingly

I I when people start talking about

their rights, it it it doesn't mean a

lot to me. I I don't even know what

people mean when they say it. You know,

I'm not trying to be pedantic,

but the next time someone says, "Well, I

have a right to this." Just ask them,

"What do you mean you have a right to

it?" What does that mean? Oh, I know.

They really have no They don't know what

they're saying. I think the vast

majority of people talking about their

rights, if you ask them to define the

word right, they would not be able to do

it. Define anywhere. What's white

supremacy? What's racism? What's what's

anti-semitism? What is any word used as

a cudel to make people be quiet and

control them? No one ever is forced to

define what the term means, right? In

fact, there are even laws that I'm

aware, you know, around those questions

that are laws. They carry punishments

and the term is never defined. Yeah. I

just I feel like this is a trend where

language isn't used to communicate, it's

used to control. And therefore, it has

to remain not fully defined. Right. And

that's why I

think all I can do in response to that

is if it's one of these terms that

doesn't mean anything anymore. Yeah.

Then it

then it it's not persuasive to me in an

argument. Right. Um it it it's a term

that has become not useful and it may

have been useful at a time. It may even

be a term that used to have a definition

or should have a definition, right?

But there are a lot of terms that are

just not useful anymore in a

conversation because they don't clarify

anything. They don't what? Well, right,

you know, rights, that's one. It's just

not it's not a it I'm not saying rights

don't exist. I'm saying it's not a

useful term in a conversation most of

the time because when somebody says,

"Oh, I have a right to this." I don't

know what they mean by that and I think

they don't know what they mean by that,

right? Um I don't think they care

actually.

and uh and and but also racism, uh white

supremacy, anti-semitism, any any of the

the isms, these are all these are not

useful terms

anymore because, you know, when you're

calling someone

racist, that doesn't tell me anything

about him. Actually, it could be if

you're if you're pointing to a guy

saying that guy's racist, maybe he

thinks that all black people are

inferior and should be enslaved. That's

racist. So maybe that's what you're

telling me about him. But you could be

trying to tell me that that's a guy who

understands that, you know, young black

males are disproportionately violent and

he's and he has pointed that

out. So you could be using the term to

describe that also, which is not

actually racist at all. So when you say

racist, I don't know what you mean. So

it's just it's not a useful term. You

need be more specific. Well, it means

something I don't like. Right. Like

something that gets in my way. Right.

There's there's Yeah, exactly. there.

You're saying there's something about

that guy that I don't like. Yeah. I I

want this thing and you're between me

and this thing and how do I get you out

of my way? How do I incapacitate or

destroy you so I can get what I want?

You're racist or any of those other

terms. Like you're in the way. Exactly.

I should have asked you this, but I'm

interested if you don't mind. What is

your spiritual practice at home? Like

you you educate your children yourself.

You and your wife, I assume your wife

primarily educates your children,

but as head of head of household, how do

you think about your requirements as

like the spiritual leader of your home?

Yeah, we're Catholic.

Um, so, and we pray we pray together

every night as a family, which I think

is is uh and we can get lazy about that.

I think a lot of families do, but I

think

it's really important. Doesn't have to

anything, you know, it doesn't need to

be a two-hour uh routine, but but you

say your prayers before bed, right?

Yeah. As a family,

all of you, all eight of you. Yeah.

Well, not the babies. The two-year-olds,

they they get out of it for now, but uh

but basically, you've got a whole

congregation. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Uh on,

you know, it's I think it's important to

be on your knees. This is just a a

bodily physically Yeah. Physically on

our knees. And you know why? Because

it's a it's a it's

a a symbol of humility and submission

before God. Now, you don't have to be on

your knees to pray. There's perfectly

valid prayer if you're not on your

knees, but um if you can, I think you

should be. And I think it's a good and I

think it's a good

image for the kids to see. It's a good

image. It's a good It's good for my kids

to see me on my knees praying. It's good

for them to see Why?

Um because to my kids I am the authority

figure in the home. Uh I don't answer to

anybody in the home. I don't have to ask

anyone's permission for

anything. And I I I'm ultimately like

the source of discipline in the home as

the father as I should be. But for them

to see that, oh, even even that guy,

even

dad who in the home, you know, this is

his castle, but even he is

um showing submission and obedience and

humility toward towards some power above

him. I think that's a really powerful

image for for my kids to have and that I

had with my with my own dad growing up.

So, uh, so we do

that. And I think this is

also I think I'm I'm at the point where

my it's kind of like my my my whole

ideology, my political ideology at this

point

is that I want my kids to go to

heaven. I want my kids to go to heaven

and I want them I want them to be good

and happy people. That's what I want.

Uh, so everything that we do in the

home, and we're not perfect. We don't

get this right perfectly, not even close

to it, but everything we do in the home

should be tailored towards that end to

help our kids be good and happy

people. And

uh, and that's also those are the

policies that I support. You know, I I I

this is this is that that's my that's my

those are my politics. Sounds like

Christian nationalism, Matt. Guilty is

charged. I'm a nationalist. I'm a

Christian. So, another term I have never

heard defined. Um, well, that's Wow,

what an interesting way to frame it.

What a what a great way to frame it.

What do you think of as your duties as a

husband and father?

I think it's

provide, you know, I'm I'm we talked

about gender roles. So, I I do believe

that the father should be the provider

in more ways than one. You know, you're

providing financially, like bringing

home the bacon is a is is a really

important part of that, and I think that

the father should do that.

Um, but you're also providing

safety, security. You're protecting

protecting and it and you know, I know

when you say that it sounds like, well,

that's that's easy cuz like what what

are what are the chances that I'm

actually going to have to fight off some

bad guy that breaks in the house? It's

not It could happen. It's not

impossible. They're increasingly high,

actually. Yeah, increasingly high. But I

haven't had to do it yet. Uh, and maybe

I'll never have to do I hope I never

have to do it.

But but but it's not just about that.

You know, as a

man, you should be, I believe, a a

stabilizing presence to your family.

Like when they're around you, they

should just feel safer and

calmer and not necessarily because

they're worried that a bad guy is going

to there's that's part of it, but it's

not just that. Like they're they're the

world's a confusing place. The world is

a dark place. Everyone has anxieties.

And when you're there, they should just

feel calmer and better having you

around. And if something goes wrong, if

there's um, you know, the hits the

fan, there's there's a

problem, they should be able to know

that, okay, well, thank God dad's here

or thank god my husband's here. And I

think that's that's one of the the

central duties of of a father, which

which means which means that, you know,

we've gotten away from in large part in

this society, we've gotten away from uh

we we don't talk about stoicism as a

virtue anymore at all. No one really

talks about that. I I happen to believe

in it a lot. I may take it a little bit

too far. I you know, I I maybe I heir

too much in that direction, but if you

had cancer, you wouldn't tell anybody.

Correct.

I admire that. If Yeah. I I I if I

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product I have seen this firsthand

including recently and I vehemently

agree with you and I think it's I think

it's a gender specific thing I think

that's a man's burden to whine but I and

I again I I've seen it in a very

profound way it changed my life actually

seeing it but I haven't thought through

why it's important but I know that it

is. It sounds like you have thought

through why that's important. Why is it?

Well, it goes back to what I said that

you that as the

man, you should be a stabilizing

protective force in the house. You

should be a calming force in the house

uh for your family. Um you should be

relieving their anxieties to the extent

that you

can. I if you are verbalizing all of

your many complaints and your

anxieties, then you've inverted that,

you know, now now you're looking to your

wife and your children. Exactly. To to

sort of carry that burden for your

emotional support animals. Right. Right.

And and you're you're turning to them to

carry this. Totally right. And I just I

don't I don't believe in that. And I

think that

that it it is it's just different. You

know, women it's it's not the same for a

woman. I think that women have are much

more relational. Women share their, you

know, they're feminine. It's that we

used to say the fairer, gentler sex. And

so it's just a different thing. And and

and I also think for women now, most

women, I think I've been conditioned

that that they aren't allowed to say out

this part out loud, but I think it's

true that they also don't really want a

man who's going

to complain and and open up to them too

much. I I know they can you say that one

more time? They don't want a higher

volume because I think that people need

to men need to hear this, right? it.

Women will we have been conditioned to

believe that opening up and sharing your

emotions is just a good thing. Crying in

front of your girlfriend, right? She

really wants you to cry. That's what

we've been told. And your and your

girlfriend might might tell you that.

She might tell you, "Oh, you know what?

I really want you to open up more."

But what's she thinking inside? Right.

He's such a Yes. That's why you

ne never cry in front of your uh wife or

your girlfriend. Like never. I mean, in

the rarest of cases, you have a you have

a a a close family member dies, that's

one

thing. Your daughter walking down the

aisle, but other than that, just never

cry in front of

them. Especially not because you're

stressed out, because you're just

dealing with some kind of

anxiety, you know. And people think that

this is extreme or they or they want to

pretend that well if women can cry then

men can cry. But just I like like

imagine a scenario

uh you let's say you're in the

car and it's the weather gets really bad

and then you get lost. Maybe the GPS

goes out and and you're lost. Weather's

bad. It's really stressful. One of those

stressful things. It's the it's dark.

You know, it would not be uncommon in

that scenario for if you're with your

wife, she might start crying like she's

very nervous. She starts crying. Oh my

gosh, we're lost. What are we going to

do? And that would not be an uncommon

thing. And as a man, you don't think

less of your wife for that. Uh hopefully

you're you're there to comfort her and

say, "No, I got this. We're going to be

fine. We got it." Now, you as the man,

if you started crying because you're

stressed out and lost and it's dark and

it's raining and you don't know where

you're

going and your wife saw that, she will

never look at you the same way again.

She will always remember that. She'll

remember the time when it was stressful

and she needed you to take over and be

in control and figure it out and you

started crying like a little She

will always remember it.

Um, and I think we again I think we all

intuitively understand that. We

understand that it's it's okay in that

scenario for the woman to cry is normal.

For the man to cry it's ridiculous. It's

shameful. But it's interesting that you

said at the outset we've been told the

opposite. And it's almost

like, well, it's not almost like, it is

that all the ingredients in a successful

marriage and family and in fact in a

successful life have been systematically

targeted by the people in charge and

their proxies for destruction. So like

everything you need to know to have a

successful life has been undermined.

Like no, you definitely cry in front of

your wife. Like show your feelings. No,

she should go get a higher paying job

than you. Like, you should do more of

the housework. Like, you need to be the

woman actually in the relationship. No,

it's totally fine to spend all Saturday

playing video games while getting high

or whatever. Like, we're getting not

just like 3° off good advice, but we're

getting 180 degrees opposite advice.

It's like our societ I'm not it's not

like our society has been targeted

intentionally for destruction. And I'm

wondering why where does that come from?

If you read the feminine mystique by

Betty Ferdan which came out I think in

the early 60s you know over 50 years ago

that

book is like a recipe for destroying a

society and yet it was promoted. That's

sort of the the root of modern

feminism. What is that? Is it spiritual?

Are these like spiritual forces working

to destroy the West? Are they What? Do

you have any clue? Uh, it's so

comprehensive. Everything you said is

the opposite of what your kids are

taught. Yeah. In school, it's uh it's

it's certainly a spiritual attack. This

this all feels demonic because it is in

my opinion.

Uh it's also it's it's all an effort I

think to d to destroy the family to to

upend the fundamental societal

institution which is the family.

because all of the you know nefarious

forces that want to control

us, want to control what we do, control

what we think, control what our children

think. The family is an enemy to them.

The family is the one thing standing in

the way. Yeah. Um and so it's all about

destroying the family. Even even the the

things that seem little like it's okay

to cry in front of your wife. No, it's

not. It's not. And and that again that's

an attack on the family because if if a

man takes that advice and starts acting

feminine and emotional, it it's going to

hurt his marriage. It might destroy his

marriage. Yes. And so that's the

ultimate goal. And um and I think a lot

of that mean you mentioned feminism. I

think a lot of this does go back to

feminism. I think that

was way more way more destructive than

any plague in history. Feminism by far

and a way is the most destructive

ideology in human history. It's not even

close. I agree with that. Why do you say

that? Well, let's start with the body

count. Uh 60 million dead

babies since row just in this country.

And if we're talking worldwide, you

know, hundreds of millions. U but in

this country, 60 million children were

killed by through abortion, which is the

feminist

sacrament. So you really you don't even

need to go beyond that. That's that's

kind of enough, I think, to make the

point, but of course you can. Um, ever

since feminism took

hold, divorce rates have

skyrocketed, birth rates have

plummeted. I mean, we're watching the

the the disintegration of the family

unit in real time, and people are un are

are less happy. They're unhappy. I mean,

as as much as there's this cliche kind

of image of the 1950s housewife who, you

know, was was was depressed and and all

the Hollywood films are always

like with this with this image of the

the the housewife was depressed and she

was on whatever drugs secretly and, you

know, the the husband was off having sex

with the secretary. Um, and most of that

is just Hollywood. It's a Hollywood

cartoon and in

reality it's kind of the opposite. Now

is when all that is happening that the

wi women are depressed, anxiety riddled

anti-depressants.

Um men too. So birth rates plummeting,

60 million dead babies.

Uh divorce rates

skyrocketed. People are unhappy. they're

anti-depressants. I you don't need to go

much further than that. No, you don't.

So, let's say you're emerging from

adolescence into the world you're

describing now. You're 18, 18-year-old

male, um,

Americanborn. What's your program?

What's your advice to that to that kid?

How do you make your way in this world?

What do you do? How do you live a happy,

meaningful life that gets you in the in

the end to heaven given that you know

you're

facing these cultural

headwinds? What would you do if you're

18 right

now? I would I would do the same thing

that I I a version of what I did do. You

know,

um the road map is the same.

Some of the obstacles are different.

Some of the challenges are harder. Not

all of them. In some ways, it's, you

know, there's some there are some things

that are easier about today than than

300 years ago,

certainly. So, a lot of the challenges

might be different, but the basic path

is the same. And you can't give up on it

because to give up on it is is despair.

I mean, that's just giving up. So, hold

fast to your faith.

number one.

Um, number

two, figure out what your vocation is,

you know, and and you know, you you'll

have a professional vocation, something

you're supposed to be doing with your

life and go and pursue that, no matter

what it is and no matter how hard it is.

And also keep in mind that if you're 18

years old, and I say this to younger

guys all the

time, in many ways I'm I'm I I admit I'm

quite happy that I'm not 18 years old,

20 years old in this environment. I am

happy for that. And I'm certainly happy,

thank God, that I'm already married

certainly.

But you do have one huge advantage

um one enviable advantage which is that

which is the same advantage that that

that every young man has had that you're

you're young, you're hopefully

physically healthy,

uh you're not married, you have no kids,

you have no

dependence. So you

can it's very low stakes. You can go

anywhere and try

anything, right? Like you don't I if if

you're looking around and saying, "Well,

there are no jobs in my town. I can't

find any

jobs." We go to a different town. Go

anywhere. Um you can go any if you end

up living in your car for a week or two

months. It's not great. That sucks, but

you you can do that because it's just

you. Now, for me, when I I got six kids,

so if things fall apart for me, it it's

much higher stakes. And it's not as

simple as I can't just like go anywhere

and try to do anything at this point. I

can't just like, okay, well, I'll go get

a job at McDonald's. It's not going to

work. I got all these kids to take care

of. But for you, you you can go anywhere

and do anything and you can take risks

and if it doesn't work out, it it'll be

hard, but it won't be

disastrous.

Um, so that's one

thing and and that's your whatever your

professional vocation is, but there's

the personal vocation. that I think for

all men is the same which is that every

man is called to be a father. Every

man. For most men that will come in the

form of biological fatherhood. Not all.

There are other forms of fatherhood.

There's spiritual fatherhood. I think

some men are called to religious life.

If you're Catholic, called to the

priesthood. You don't get married. But

you're you were still a father in a

spiritual sense. But every man is called

to fatherhood in some s. No man, no man

is called to to live for himself only

and serve only himself. No man is called

to live a life where

they go to work, come home, play video

games, have no one depending on them,

um no one that they love. No one is

called to that

life. So go and pursue that, you know,

go pursue that and go pursue it

fearlessly and know what you're looking

for and realize that there there are a

lot of women who are also looking for

the same thing. I hear from conservative

Christian men all the time

saying, "I'm a conservative. I'm

Christian. There are no good women

left." Yes, there are no there are no

women out there who share my values.

Constantly you hear that. But then I

also hear from women all the time who

are conservative Christians saying, "I'm

conservative. I'm Christian. There are

no good men. There are no men who share

my values. And I'm like, well, you know,

you guys, you're both out there. You you

both exist. I know you're out there.

Um, so you just have to pursue it and

pursue it fearlessly and know what

you're looking for. And um, and and

don't waste your time as a man. Like,

don't waste your time with women who,

you know, don't share your fundamental

values. When I when I met my my wife, we

got

engaged. Six months later, we got

engaged. So, it was a quick it was

quick. And uh we talked about on our

first date, we talked about everything.

We talked about religion,

politics, everything. Just got it all

out in the open because at that point,

we were both, you know, I was 25, she

was 24, but uh so young. You're getting

old. Yeah. Uh but uh by today's

standards that's that's you know young

to to be um getting married. But we

didn't want to we just didn't want to

waste time. Like what's the what's the

point? If we if we have if we if our

fundamental values don't align then this

this can only end in heartbreak. So

there's no point. I'm not going to waste

my time. I'm not going to waste two

years of my life dating this person when

there's no future. And I know for a fact

that the heartbreak is coming. it's the

only way it can end and I'm just

delaying it for no apparent reason. Uh

I'm not going to do that.

So, we laid all that out really early on

and

um people ask like, well, how do you

know that someone's values align with

yours? Ask them. That's that's one way

to find out. Now, somebody can lie, but

you can weed out a lot of people just by

asking. And then and then after you've

done that and you go to the polygraph

stage, right? Polygraph

uh that's where dating comes in and you

kind of you you get to know them a

little bit. Doesn't have to be that

long. You don't need to date them for 5

years. It doesn't take that long to get

to know someone to to know what they're

really about, I think. And if somebody's

a total fraud, if they're a terrible

person, most people are not good at

hiding it. Like I think most of us can

tell I could talk to someone for two

hours or less. Of course I can talk to

someone for 20 minutes easily. Um and if

you're dating someone for six months,

that's more than enough time. I mean all

the time you spend with

them, it's more than enough time to

figure out what they're really

about. So and it's still possible. And

uh and and and my my that's my main

message to to young men is that

uh you know there's this kind of what do

they call it?

Migttow men go their own way movement

online among like some right-wing men in

the what they the manosphere. What does

that mean? Men go their own way. I I I

guess it it basically means uh the whole

system is rigged against men and the

family courts are rigged. Yeah.

Everything's rigged. True. Which is

true. Yeah. That's true. I don't deny

it. What I deny is their conclusion

which is that it's hopeless. men just

need to go their own way, do their own

thing, like like go be gay.

I don't think that they would. Sounds

pretty gay to me. To me it does. To me

it does. Uh I think in practice, I don't

know if it involves that in practice. I

think often in practice it just means uh

go get a job, live your life on your

own, and give up on the hope. No girls.

Yeah. G give up on the hope of uh of of

ever like having a happy marriage

because it's not possible. Wake up by

yourself every day. Exactly.

That sounds like a lot of fun. That's

the That's And that's despair. That is

Oh, it's also It's also weak. I mean,

look, I think everything is rigged

against men, obviously, particularly

white men,

obviously. But, okay, then, you know,

you've had tough tasks before. Like,

make it your your job, your duty to to

help fix it. Like, give the give the

middle finger to the people who are

oppressing you and be happy. Build a

great happy life. have decent children.

Like that's the greatest possible Yeah.

attack. That's exactly right. And that's

exactly the right

message

is when someone says, "Well,

everything's rigged. It's not fair. It's

really hard. I might

fail." Right. Okay. Yeah, that's the

answer. But yeah, yes, you're right.

Okay. Uh what now? Now that we've

established that, now that we've

established how bad it is, which we

have, what what's next? What are you

gonna do tomorrow? Now we we're all on

the same page. It's rigged. It sucks.

It's bad. Exactly. I hate it. I wish it

wasn't this way. And yeah, even after

everything I just said, you could still

get married and somehow you end up with

a sociopath who was able to hide it,

which I think is rare, but it can

happen. And then you have kids and she

cheats on you and she takes the kids,

she ruins your life. Yep. Yep. I've seen

that. That can happen. Yep.

Um, okay. Now that we've established all

of that, when you wake up in the morning

tomorrow, what are you going to do? What

are you going to do with that

information? What are you actually going

to do with your life? You're going to

say to yourself, "I'm not afraid cuz I'm

a man. I get hit by a bus. I could get

ALS." Like, the number of bad endings

that are possible in your life is like

limitless. And by the way, the end will

be bad. like you're going to die in pain

and afraid. Okay, we know that. But

knowing all of that, you still like

have to be courageous and just jump face

first into it anyway. I mean, that's

kind of the whole point, right? Right.

And especially when you have kids, once

you have kids, the

possibility of

tragedy increases exponentially. Oh,

yeah. Well, I mean, now now you cuz

before it was like all the tragic things

that can happen to you. Now it's what

are all the tragic things that can

happen to my kids? Oh yeah. And then

times that by however many kids you

have. Yeah. And then you got your wife

and it's like there are so many horrible

ways that this could go. Oh yeah. And

may and may. Right. But but then but

then it if any of that happens, what's

the end result? The end result

is could be misery and

despair. Okay. So then your solution is

just to embrace misery and despair at

the outset. Yeah. Tell me because you're

afraid that it might happen. Agree.

Um and I and I by the and you know I

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Well, you are going to end up miserable

in some tragic scenario at some point.

That's just a fact. Like that we

shouldn't hide that from ourselves

actually. Like that's g something

horrible is going to happen to you for

sure. You're going to get the diagnosis.

Someone you love is going to get the

diagnosis or worse. And the whole point

is, you know, you're dead. You're not

afraid. Yeah. Right. I mean, you're

running toward the sound of gunfire, not

away from it. That's like your whole

role. Yeah. I I totally agree. That's

that's of all the unpopular uh uh

messages that we've talked about, that's

probably the mo the most unpopular is is

that like it's going to end in tragedy

no matter what. We're all going to die.

Like we're all going to die. Oh yeah,

it's bad. Yeah, right. It's bad. That's

the thing that nobody wants to think

about and talk about. We should probably

think about it and talk about it a lot

more than we do. Oh, the more you think

about it, the the lighter you're bearing

and the more cheerful you are. If I was

I was reading someone recently who said

um you know meditating on death every

day is the is the most certain way to

joy and cheerfulness and lightness. And

I think that's right. I I kind of agree

with that. I mean I read a

book there's this um there was a book

that was written years ago called Denial

of Death. You ever read that? No.

And I'm blanking on the name of the guy

who wrote it. It'll come to me. But

anyway, the book is called Denial of

Death. I don't agree with it's kind of

psych psychoan analytical. There's a lot

of psycho babble in it. Uh it was

written by an author who ironically

wrote this book, published it, won I

believe a Pulitzer and died and uh died

of of cancer. I think he didn't know

that he had it when he wrote this book,

but then he published the book and he

died. But anyway, his his his kind of

theory was

that like all of modern society is

actually fundamentally set up to

distract us from the fact that we're

going to die. Of course, that terror of

death is what

drives

everything. Um, and he takes that

farther than I would probably take it,

but I think there's actually a lot of

truth to And I remember I read this book

and I and I uh and I and I and I could

see a lot of that in my own in my own

life, of course. But then I I I

discovered that that once I once I

started actually thinking about that and

meditating on it, maybe not literally

meditating, but really thinking about

it, uh I did become h I became less

fearful somehow of it. Of course, cuz

you've you've looked the monster in the

face and like accepted, you know, there

is something snuffling under your bed,

you know. Okay. So, how have your um

well, two-part question. How have your

views changed and how has the definition

speaking of definitions of conservatism

changed in say the past 20 years? Let's

start with

you. I don't know that any of my views

have they haven't fundamentally changed.

I've I've become more radical. I've

certainly become radicalized on pretty

much every issue. I'm I'm just farther

to the right on everything. Mhm. Uh my

whole life I've just been I started on

the right. I come from a conservative

Catholic family and so I'm already

starting like way over here

and everything that's happened in the

country and also in my personal life has

only just moved me farther and

farther. So that's the only way that my

views and where does that lead at the

end? Like what's your view of Francisco

Franco?

Where does it lead in the end? I don't

know. Like, so if you start right and

you keep going right, where do you wind

up? Are we still filming is the

question? Uh,

where is the 80-year-old Matt Walsh on

the issues?

That'll be interesting. It'll be

interesting to check in. I don't know.

I'll be long gone. But um uh but I I

think so that that's that's my own

personal trajectory.

The definition of conservatism

though has has only changed in that I

think it's

in that it it has no definition. I I

think it's like so many we talked about

the words that don't mean anything

anymore. Words that used to be useful

and maybe used to mean something and

they just don't anymore because of how

they've been misused and abused and

overused. Uh and I think conservatism is

another one of those words. I just when

when you when you tell me

now that someone is conservative,

uh I I I don't it doesn't tell me a lot

about them. I don't know what you mean.

Um it generally means I'm not going to

like them. Um yeah. Well, they're going

to be some kind of fraud, you know, on

the internet. Uh luring people with

false prophecy. That's kind of what I

that's that's my gut reaction. So

discredited has that word become. But

what I mean what the reason I asked this

it's a moving target of course it means

something different in every generation

or maybe every year. But because Donald

Trump just got elected after four

probably the worst four years since the

American Civil War under Joe Biden,

there is this like large group, tens of

millions of people who are aligned in

this thing, this movement, this block of

voters, this ideology, and what is it

and how has it changed?

These are big questions, Matt. So, I'm

going to let you I'm going to give you a

second to pause, okay?

because I I don't know what it is

exactly is my point. I don't know what

it I I think it's I know what it isn't.

think so. One thing that unites us is

that we have this general idea of

wokeness, leftism, whatever you want to

call

it. Uh and we don't like

that. So, I think we all have that in

common. You know, we we when we look at

a a woman with blue hair and a no nose

piercing, everyone on the right, we

could look at that woman and we could

say we probably don't like her and we

probably don't agree with anything she

thinks. So, we we don't agree with the

blue hairs. That's one thing we have in

common. And and the main thing that we

don't agree with them on is that we

think free speech is like a foundational

concept, the foundational concept of the

United States. And if you have an

opinion, you ought to be able to express

it. And I thought this was what

everybody agreed on. I thought this why

they voted for Trump. Shows you how dumb

I am. And then I wake up and I see these

people, many of whom I know,

scolding Rogan, me, just scolding in

general. You, you're not supposed to

platform that person or that set of

ideas or that those are words that

shouldn't be

spoken. And I'm like, what? You know,

we're a hundred days into this and

already people I thought were on my side

are mad because of like naughty words or

concepts or ideas or questions

questions. Literally people on the

so-called right are mad about asking

questions. It's like a parody or

something. I thought that's like we made

fun of the left. Like they'd be like

just asking questions. Your questions

are more than questions. They're

assaults on me. And I'm literally

hearing people on the right say that

about me. So it pisses me off, but not

it's not just me. Like what the hell is

going on? Yeah. I don't take you

seriously. If you use the word

platforming,

yeah, negative. I I don't I don't take

you seriously. I've already lost respect

for you. I agree. That to me that's a

leftist thing. That to me that's the

blue when I think of the blue hair woman

with the nose piercing. I think of her

as someone who scolds you for Why did

you platform that person? Well, that's

why I don't like her in, you know, all

things being equal, I'd feel sorry for

her. She's got blue hair and a nose

ring. There's no man who loves her.

Like, I feel sad for her. That would be

my default view. The only reason I don't

like her is cuz she's scolding me for

platforming people she doesn't agree

with, right? Um Well, I I don't like her

for a lot of other reasons, too, but I

don't You're a lot nicer than me. Uh but

yes, that so so using that term as like

pjorative, as this forbidden thing is is

that that should be a leftist. I mean,

that should be one of the quintessential

we think about wokeness. That's one of

the quintessential features of wokeness,

whatever that is exactly, is this idea

you want to platform people. Uh I I just

don't agree with it. I mean, what what

is what does that even mean? And also,

uh usually when someone is accused of

platforming someone

else, it's like it doesn't even make

sense to begin with because the person

that they're saying is being platformed

already had a platform. Like we all have

platforms. We're all we're we're out

there saying what we think already. So

usually when they say platforming, what

they really mean is you talked to that

person. It's not that we don't want you

to platform that person. They already

had a platform. We don't want you to

speak to that person and have any kind

of conversation with them. Um but what

they're really trying to do is set guard

rails around my mind and treat me like a

slave, a non-human being. They're

they're trying to tell me you're not

allowed to to think certain things and I

reserve the right. I think it's an

absolute right to think whatever I want.

A B if you disagree with what I think,

it's incumbent on you to convince me

that I'm wrong through reason. Like,

show me the counterveailing evidence.

It's not enough to say my views are

naughty. The person I'm talking to is

naughty. They're discredited. They're

bad. I mean, that's like a species of

religion and a false religion, I would

say. And yet I'm seeing that impulse

that that reveals a way of thinking that

totalitarian and low and dumb and

embarrassing and that I associate with

the left, but I'm seeing it everywhere

on the right. Like what the I'm trying

not to use the f word. What the heck is

going on, Matt Walsh?

Like if I disagree with you, Matt Walsh,

I would say I disagree with you and

here's why, right? And I would pay you

the respect of taking your ideas

seriously and trying to dissuade you

from those ideas. I would not say, "How

dare you, Matt Walsh, think that because

that's insulting not just simply to you,

but I'm insulting my own intelligence.

That's how dumb people communicate."

Right. Yeah. And and I I believe in free

speech in principle. So people should

and to me, free speech is it it's not a

complicated

uh idea. Free speech means that you have

the freedom to express whatever opinion

or perspective you want. Mhm.

Uh I can agree or disagree. It doesn't

matter. Now, that doesn't extend to

things like in my mind hardcore

pornography. That's not speech. That's

not an opinion that's being expressed.

That is digital

prostitution. But if it's an opinion, if

you're just sending a message about what

you believe, you should be able to do

that. Period. Um so that's the first

thing. But then also

strategically, you know, when you start

complaining about platforming, it's just

a it's a bad strategy because all you

when when you point to someone and you

say that person shouldn't be

platformed. Uh all you're doing if

you're worried about what that person is

saying, all you're doing is making

people more interested in what that

person says. I know I I'm that way. If

if I

hear that there's a controversy because

so and so was

platformed and I've never heard of that

person, I immediately say, "Oh, what's

this person all about? I got to look

into them." Yeah. I always do that. Oh,

I I take it one step further and then

book the person on the show. Yeah. Yeah.

Always. Of course. Because it's it's

like and whatever it is you said that

upset upsets people, I'm interested

because people are so upset. I might not

agree with it, but I'm interested. Uh

and I I just reject in principle. Like

we if you are telling me that I

shouldn't hear that person or talk to

them or take them seriously or listen to

their ideas just in principle I want to

say no f you now I'm going to listen

even more. Now I'm going to listen to a

two-hour podcast that I wouldn't have

listened to otherwise just because you

said that. Exactly. And especially if

you don't explain the person's ideas and

why they're wrong. I mean I I think a

lot of ideas are wrong and there are a

lot of poisonous people out there

selling crap. Poisonous crap. Um, I

completely agree with that. I just think

it's important. It's essential. It

should be required to explain why it's

wrong, not just that it's bad. What did

you think of the debate? A lot of this

kind of broke through the surface in the

debate between Dave Smith and um,

Douglas Murray on Rogan a couple of

weeks ago. Did you watch that? And what

I did. I watched I ended up watching the

I wasn't planning on watching the whole

thing, but I watched the whole thing

uh over the course of a few days. It was

a long debate.

And you know, I have a a different I

come in with a different perspective

than maybe some people who are really

interested in the debate in that I don't

have a dog in the fight. Mhm. I

don't Everyone is I'm constantly hearing

from the peanut gallery demanding that I

um kind of give my my verdict or my take

on Israel and Israel versus Palestine

and all this kind of stuff. And I and I

have given my take and my take is I

don't care that much. Uh so I don't I

just don't care that much. I'm a I'm not

just America first. I'm I'm an American

chauvinist in that I only care about my

own country. I I honestly don't care

about other countries. I wish them well.

I don't I don't wish any of them I don't

wish them ill. I wish the people of

other countries well. Uh I think they

all have a right to defend themselves

and and they should.

I think that if you can't defend

yourself as a nation or if you can't

survive without

um being propped up by another

government, say ours, then you shouldn't

exist as a country. Uh that's just the

way of the world. So wait, wait, wait.

If you if you can't exist without being

propped up by another government, say

ours, you shouldn't exist.

Israel cannot exist without being

propped up by the United States. You

think so? Its nuclear program came from

the United States. its weapons come from

the United States, its economy is

supported by the United States. I'm not

attacking Israel. I'm just saying in

point of fact, I think that's true. And

I mean, Israel thinks it's true or they

wouldn't have armies of lobbyists and

influencers in the United States. BB

wouldn't have shown up twice in the past

3 months. Yeah. I mean, the

way from my perspective, it seems like

they can handle themselves quite fine.

Uh but any country, if there is any

country out there

that fundamentally cannot exist without

being subsidized by American

taxpayers, then not only should that

country not exist, but that country

already does not exist. It's it's not

really That's interesting. It's not

really a country, right? No, it's um and

unless we want to go back to the old

way, which was, you know, back in in the

bad old days, uh when we did real

empires, you know, if you want to just

be conquered and and you're going to be,

you know, you're going to be a vassal

state of ours and we're going to sort of

own you, then uh then that's that's one

system. But we don't really do that, at

least not directly anymore.

So if if you can I ask you a question

that's such an interesting not only does

it have no right to exist it already

doesn't exist is not a real country.

Yeah. Not a real country. If any country

that that right that that's true of

Yeah. Now I'm I'm not convinced at all

that that is true of Israel. I'm not

convinced at all. Yeah. I mean I don't

know either by the way and I think

Israel seems like a perfectly functional

and strong country including with a

strong economy that goes up and down but

basically I mean they have a robust tech

sector. They've got a lot going for

them. And so I think I kind of agree.

I'm just saying they don't seem to feel

that way. But who knows what the truth

is. I I think that if we were to

withdraw I think we should withdraw

withdraw all federal all uh uh foreign

aid from every country. You know I I

don't think we should be doing it at

all. I think Yeah. And I think if we did

that I think Israel would still exist. I

think I think if we took away all the

foreign aid tomorrow, next week, two

months from now, Israel would still be I

agree with that a country. Yes, there

are probably other countries on the

planet that just would not exist

anymore. But countries have to make more

realistic decisions when there's no

backs stop. In the same way that people

do and in the same way that people on

welfare or people with trust funds

equally kind of tend to make terrible

decisions about their own lives. I think

that it's also true for countries. You

get way overextended when you're

dependent. Yeah. Yeah. And this is and

by the way, this is when I say that a

country that can't survive without us

shouldn't exist or doesn't exist, that's

not any kind of like moral judgment.

It's just this is the way of human

civilization. You you have to be able

to you have to be able to stand on your

own two feet to to be to even qualify as

a country, right? And um I think the

American taxpayers have been saddled for

many years now with propping up country

after country after

country. Um when that that is not a

responsibility that should fall to me or

you or to my kids. Um our responsibility

is is to our is to ourselves. And it's

also true of us. If we could not exist.

Well, I agree. you know, if if if we

were depending on uh welfare from some

other country in order to exist, then I

would say that like we we're not a

country

anymore. So, you know, take it away and

like let whatever happens happens. Let

let the thing fall apart and maybe from

the ashes we can build a real country.

That would be my take if it was true of

us. So, I mean, we get um I I vehemently

agree with you. I don't think I've ever

heard it as well put. Um, but I don't

think anything you said is radical. I

think it's, as you just said, it's the

way of human civilization. How do we get

to a place where that qualifies as a

radical

view? I think it's it's people have been

conditioned that

um, you know, xenophobia is a is a is a

great

sin. And so I don't know, it's this I

don't really understand it cuz I've

never felt it. But for a lot of people,

they just fe it it it feels wrong to

them to actually prioritize their own

country. It feels it I guess it feels

unnatural to people, which is crazy.

It's bizarre. Uh because to me, it's the

most natural thing in the world. Like

I it's not it should not be

controversial to

say I care more about my country than I

care about anybody else. I care more

about the people in my country than I

care about anyone

else. And the amount that I sort of care

about

you it it increases the closer you are

to me. That that's the way people work.

So I care the most about my own kids. I

care more about my own kids than anyone

else. If my kids are in a fire and

someone else is in a fire, I'm saving my

own kids a thousand times out of a

thousand. Um, if I had to choose between

one of my kids and a thousand other

people, I'd save my kid over the

thousand because that's that's my, you

know, they're my kids. That's my blood.

and and then, you know, branching out

from

there. I care about my my family, my my

larger family. I care about from there

my community where I live. Um and then,

you know, this is subsidiarity and then

and then branching out from there, I

care about circles of obligation.

Exactly. And that's that should just be

so natural. That's that's how people

work and and that's how everyone works.

Like if I told

you, anyone who hears this and thinks

that it sounds cruel or something, well,

if I came to you and told you

that your friend's child

died, you would be really broken up. I

would assume. In tears? Yeah, I would.

You'd be in tears about it. If I came to

you and

said, you know, just a few minutes ago,

a child in China uh was hit by a car and

died,

you would say, that's that's too bad.

That's sad. And then you would not think

about it again. Correct. You would move

on with your life and never even think

about it. Even though that's a child,

it's a child. The child died. It's a

terrible thing. It's really sad.

Objectively, that child in China dying

objectively is as terrible as your

friend's child dying, but your

attachment to that child in China is

much less is is basically non-existent.

um your obligation to that child is the

idea is that what you're describing is

sentiment sentimentality really and that

it's our job as evolved beings to

override that false

sentimentality with like a clearer moral

code. I don't think it is sentiment. I

think it's the opposite. I I think the

idea that we should but you know what I

mean like yeah that's what they said.

This is effective altruism actually.

It's like no that every human life has

equal value which I think you would

agree with as a Christian. Absolutely.

Yeah. Therefore our obligation to every

human being is identical.

And I and and you're right that they

would so that what I'm saying they would

call false sentimentality. But but that

is false

sentimentality. This idea that we're

citizens of the world and we value

everyone the same is a false sentiment.

No one actually thinks it. You know, you

would save your own child from the fire.

Is it because you think your child has

more moral worth than anyone else's

child? No. Is it because your child

dying in a fire is objectively more sad

than someone else's child? No. But

that's your blood. That's not sentiment.

That's your blood. That's your family.

But that means something. But blood

doesn't matter. Genetics aren't real.

I think it's the most it's one of the

most real things there is, you know, and

um and and it's obligation, you know,

it's it it should also it be it should

be inherent. It's instinctual, but it's

also ob you have an obligation to your

child. And then branching out of the

concentric circles, you have you have an

obligation to your country and you have

an attachment you should have an

attachment to your country and a pride

in your country. Um these are your

people. This is your history. These are

your ancestors.

Um,

and and so that's it. I mean, and and to

me, it's the most it's the most natural

thing in the world. And um, so

nationalism is is not really an

ideology. It's just like nature. It's

just the default position. It's like,

yes, it's the natural state of human

beings. The natural state of It's the

natural way that societies are

organized. That's all natural. Why is

everyone afraid of it and against it?

I think it's

it's a lot of it is confusion not

understanding what nationalism even is.

Um it's part of the kind of globalist

agenda. It's part of this

destructive like I said a lot of it

comes down to destroying the family and

and and we do that by inverting

everybody's priorities. Yeah. So that

like they want to get you to the point

where you're where you're more concerned

about peace in Ukraine than you are

about

uh protecting your own child. Well,

they've absolutely succeeded. By the

way, I go on social media, which I

really try to avoid, but whenever I go

on it and it's all right-wingers or

whatever they are now, but it's all

Trump voters right in my

feed. They're yelling at each other over

mostly about Israel, but also about

Ukraine, but about foreign countries.

That's what they're mad at. I mean,

they're totally

obsessed. And by the way, I think it's

legitimate to have views on all for I've

got a million views on a million

different foreign countries, including

those two. But that's their overriding

concern. It does seem, I hate the word

op, but it does seem like by design,

someone has sapped the vital energy from

Trump's voting base by convincing them

that what's happening in these foreign

countries is more important than what's

happening in their own. That's what I

see. Do you see this? I I do see it. And

uh and and I don't I don't understand

it. I don't understand

why how do we get to a point

where the the the dominant conversation

in this country is about what's

happening in other countries. I I don't

I don't understand it. I don't

understand the people that are

obsessively focused on it on either side

of it really. I agree.

Um because and can I say America's role

in the world is a different question

like we play a role in the world. We

certainly have. What's the appropriate

role is a question that Americans should

be concerned with because it's our money

and the lives of our young men. So, but

this is something different. You're

saying people's like obsession about a

foreign conflict between two like

foreign actors. Is that what you're

saying? Or I don't want to put words in

your mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Obsession with a

conflict.

um taking any foreign country and making

it the centerpiece of our political

debates makes no sense to me. Uh and and

I think people on either side do that

where I when I go on Twitter go on

X and you know no matter what the topic

is it seems it's like you know used to

be six degrees of Kevin Bacon or

whatever. Yeah.

uh now it's two degrees of Israel. Like

no matter what the topic is, it always

comes back for a lot of people to Israel

one way or another. And

um that's not how I see it. I don't see

Israel as the as the the the centerpiece

of any of these debates at all. It does

seem like it's blowing or blowing up is

probably too strong, but it's definitely

dividing the you know, Trump's voter

base big time. Do you feel that? I do.

And it's a shame because why are we

being divided over that of all things?

What's be divided over fentanyl or

tariffs or whatever something, you know

what I mean? Yeah. So that's going going

all the way back to what actually your

question that I never answered. I don't

think I gave you a chance. I was off and

Well, I was I was also off. Uh but about

the the Dave Smith and Douglas Murray

debate, uh my point was I'm going into

it. I don't really have a dog in the

fight. I don't know why these guys

either. And uh I don't know either of

the guys. I don't really I'm not

following the issue that closely. I'm

just not I'm focused on

America. And so

I'm I'm really just interested to see

how this turns out. I you know I'm I'm

I'm listening to both arguments.

And I thought that

um Douglas Murray, who seems like a

really smart

guy, I I thought he made a crucial

mistake in the debate by starting it

seemed like the first 45 minutes to an

hour was this kind of this litigation

over who's an expert and who

isn't. And that's just not you're not

going to win the argument that way.

Nobody wants to hear it. Nobody should

want to hear it.

credentialism. You're not an expert. You

know, we we've seen what the expert

class

has given us, especially over the last

five years. Pretty good job or no? I I

would I would give it a solid D

minus. Very generous. Very generous.

Uh so, nobody wants to hear it. Nobody

wants to hear about about

um calling yourself an expert goes back

again to words that don't mean anything

anymore. Yeah, that's a word that should

mean something. It should it is

possible. Expertise is a real thing.

There are people who can be experts on a

subject. I I would hope that the pilot

of my plane is an expert in flying a

plane. Um, as we've seen, we can't we

can't rely on that being the case either

anymore. But that's what it should mean.

But we've also used the word expert and

applied it to people who are making

outrageously false claims. I mean the

experts are the ones who told us that

you know you can castrate your son and

turn him into a girl. That was the

expert opinion. That was the opinion of

the expert class for years and

and still is with some of them. So in a

world like that, in a world where the

experts are telling us that women have

penises and men can have babies, the

word expert just doesn't mean anything

anymore. It should, but it doesn't.

Which means that if you're going to have

this conversation, skip past that. We

don't need like we don't need to

litigate what an expert is or who an

expert is. Yeah. Why not begin with the

merits of the debate, right? Just just

get into it. It doesn't matter. This guy

that you're sitting next to, whether

he's an expert or not, makes no

difference. I don't care if he's a

scholar. I don't care if he's a homeless

guy you just pulled off the

street. His arguments are valid or they

aren't. Exactly. And that's all that

matters. That's all that anyone cares

about. So, this went on for an hour.

Yeah, that's I'd say the first hour was

was about who was an expert and who

isn't. What is that? I mean, Douglas

Murray is famous for being smart. What

do you think that was? I don't know. I I

I honestly don't. I thought it was a

just a strategic error. Um, a pretty

serious one. And

then by the time you actually get into

the debate, then a lot of people have

just kind of checked out because it

comes off as kind of snobbish.

Um, and it comes off as, you know, as

credentialism as as you're trying to

invalidate the argument before it's even

presented,

right? Um, so that that was the mistake.

Then when they actually got into the

actual conversation, I found it to be I

just thought it was interesting. I

really did. And I thought they both made

valid points. They both know more about

the subject than I do. A lot more. That

was very clear to me.

Um, and I I I think if you could chop

off the first hour of the debate, it was

an interesting

conversation. Who do you think made a

more compelling case on the mer once

they actually got down to the question

at hand?

I don't know. I think that so Douglas

Murray said one thing. He made one point

that I thought was was really good,

which is a simple one. I like simple

points. Me, too.

And at one point he asked Dave because

once they got into arguing about what

happened after October 7th, how Israel

responded, and Dave has all of his

criticisms about what Israel has

done. And then Douglas Murray said uh

said, "Well, what what would you what

would you have them do? What what would

you prefer to have for them to have done

if they want to rescue the hostages and

also destroy

Hamas? What what do you want them to do

instead?" And then from what I remember,

Dave, he pointed out that, okay,

destroying Hamas and rescuing hostages

are kind of are not necessarily the same

objective. Uh, and then they started

talking about rescuing

hostages. They didn't really circle back

to the destroying Hamas part. And I

would have liked to see him stick on

that point, like get an answer. Well, so

so if you're Israel, you have a foreign,

you know, these these foreign enemy

that's come into your country, uh,

slaughtered hundreds of

people. What should how should you

respond to that?

Um, and I think he should have uh he

should have pressed that and he and he

didn't. And so it became it was sort of

unfocused because I would have I would

have legitimately like to hear the

answer to that for sure. What what would

you have them do? So we could talk about

maybe there are other ways to rescue the

hostages, but do you think they should

try to destroy Hamas given what

happened? And if you do, how else should

they go about it?

Um, but they kind of moved on to other

things and it became this kind of it

became a sort of unfocused in my mind

sort of like circular conversation as

these debates tend to devolve into very

often. If you were in control of what

people on Twitter debated, what would

they be debating right now?

Everything we talked about for the

first, you know, hour of this

conversation is is what like let's talk

about the war on the family. Yeah. Uh on

marriage, things that affect our

kids, you

know, how do we how do we raise healthy,

happy kids? Let's talk about that. Any

of these issues, these like serious deep

cultural issues in our country. Yes, is

what we should be talking about. In my

mind, you feel like it's very hard to go

from affluence to less affluence. It's

very hard to move backward. It's like

hard for the human brain to deal with

it. But it's possible.

Um, you feel like the United States

could become significantly poor, not

poor, but less rich than it is now, and

still remain cohesive and happy people

with meaningful lives who love their

neighbors and their spouses and their

children. But you you're not going to do

that without

families. You can't do that if people

are living in studio apartments by

themselves with their cats. Like, that's

just not going to happen. Right. Right.

So, I just think objectively that's the

most important issue. Why isn't it the

topic of discussion or

debate? And why did the Republican party

shunt aside social conservatives like

circus freaks for 40 years? Like, what

was

that?

Uh, I think there are a lot of people

invested in it not being the topic of

conversation because once you start

talking about it, you start noticing

things that they don't want you to

notice.

Well, you start noticing who the, you

know, this the the actual agenda to

destroy the family, to destroy marriage.

Uh, you start you start noticing that,

you know, we we veered

off, took kind of the left turn veer off

away from the way civilization was

structured for thousands of years. It

hasn't really worked out.

um you start looking at any of these

things and and you say, "Okay, well, we

started making all these changes, all

these reforms, all this supposed

progress." Uh and a lot of the these

wheels have been in motion for

decades. How has it worked out? You

know, what what are what's what what by

by its fruits, you shall know it. So,

how has it worked out? None of it has

worked out.

Um, and I think you notice that and and

I think there are people who don't want

you to. And also some of these social

issues when you're talking about

families and these kinds of things, it

hits closer to home. That's for sure. As

it should more than tax rates, you can

hurt people's feelings. Yeah, it hits

closer to home. And so people feel

everyone has they have their own

hang-ups. They have their own

sensitivities. They have maybe mistakes

they feel they've made in their own

families or their own marriages or with

their own kids. and they feel indicted,

think. So, I think for for some people

it's just feels it's safer to talk about

issues that are 10,000 miles away. Um,

do you ever get I mean, there are plenty

of conservative so-called influencers

who, you know, have personal lives that

are what you're describing as bad. Do

they ever call you and say, "Hey, Matt

Walsh, you hurt my feelings."

Uh, certainly don't call me. No, they

don't call me to say it, but

uh plenty of conservative influencers,

quote unquote, will, you know, they'll

I'll say something, they'll send out a

tweet, they'll attack me publicly. So,

I'd much prefer the call. I'd much

prefer the It's not hard to get my

number if you're in the, you know,

business or send me a message or

something, but people don't generally do

that. That's not how people operate.

Have you noticed that like a huge

percentage of war crazed Republican

senators are secretly gay? What is that?

Uh are they? Yeah. Like what is

that? What is the connection between

which are the ones that are secretly

gay? I don't know that the ones who are

secret about it.

Um but there is some kind of there I I

guess all I'm saying I'm not being

caddyy. I'm trying not to be catty or

cruel or whatever, but I do think

there's a connection to the way that you

live at

home, connection between the way you

live at home and like the policies that

you espouse and the impulses that you

have and like the vision that you have

for the country you lead. Like I don't I

don't really know if you want a people

with like truly unsettled dark personal

lives with power. Do you? No. I mean, I

I even outside of the people running the

country, I

um I automatically have at least some

semblance of respect for a man if you

know he's a good husband and a good

father. And you can't always tell that,

but I think often you can. And those are

the kinds of people I want to surround

myself with. I don't want to be around

people who

aren't. Um people have disordered

personal lives. I don't I don't really

want to be around them. So, if I don't

want to be around them, I don't want

them running the country.

Fair. Last question. Broad question. 100

days into Trump. How's it going? Are you

Are you happy with it? I assume you vote

you voted for Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah.

Um I mean, has it been what you

expected? It it in some ways it's been

better than I expected in some

significant ways. I I I think that my

number one criticism of Trump in his

first term was despite all the talk

about how he's a fascist

dictator. In reality, in his first term,

it seemed to me he was very shy about

wielding his power and his authority,

um he seemed to be a lot more worried

about what people say about him, what

the media says about him, a lot more

focused on the coverage and all all that

sort of thing. And this time around that

doesn't seem to be the case, you know,

and jumping in with 2,000 executive

orders or whatever it was, dozens. Um,

touching on some real hot button

controversial issues. What was your

favorite?

Uh, well, I mean, as someone who's been

really invested in this issue, the

there's several executive orders uh

dealing with gender ideology. I mean,

even something as simple as illegally

defining what a man and woman is. We

shouldn't have to do that, but we did

and he

did.

Um prohibiting to the extent that it's

possible from his position the

castration and mutilation of children.

Now, Congress has to follow up with

these executive orders and codify them

into law, which hasn't happened with I

don't think any of them, which I am

worried about because the thing about an

executive order is that when the next

guy gets in there, if he's a Democrat,

he can just he can undo that as quickly

as it was done. So,

uh that's that's a it's a band-aid. It's

not the permanent solution.

Um, why hasn't why hasn't there been a

law yet passed by

Congress federally banning the

mutilation and castration of children?

Cuz they're for

it. For it or they or they don't care

that much? Well, same thing, you know,

same thing. I think I mean, if you

you're in a position to stop something,

it's not that hard and you don't, I

think it's fair to assume you approve of

that thing.

you yeah you approve of it or you just

don't you don't you don't it's you don't

care enough to try to stop it which

effectively it's it's one and the same.

Um so I all that was good. I liked all

that and I think that he's using his

power as authority. He's not he's not

he's not afraid to do that this time

around which I think is really good. If

there's one

major criticism or or um area for

improvement, it's, you know, I don't

know what the deportation numbers are

exactly. I think they should probably be

a lot

higher. Easier said than done, of

course. And also, we have to I

acknowledge that there are fewer people

coming in now, you know, which is going

to bring your deportation numbers down,

but I think that should be a lot higher.

And and I think I think that I

understand politically focusing on

illegal aliens who have committed

heinous crimes. We should focus on them,

but not just them. I mean, we should be

deporting anyone who's in this country

is not supposed to be

here. You know, I don't care if you had

a speeding ticket or a DUI or a

manslaughter charge. I mean, I care.

That's a big difference. But in any of

those cases or if you had nothing, you

shouldn't be in the country. Then what?

And but there are plenty of people, the

majority, I would say, of people in

Washington are arguing the opposite,

which is like, you know, it doesn't

matter that they're breaking the law.

That's what they're arguing. In fact,

they should be protected as they break

the law. So why are you following laws

as someone who was born here, paying all

the taxes for all this stuff? Like, are

you following the law? As far as you

know, I am. Yeah. as far as text your

wife and find out. Um I hope not because

you'd be an idiot to do that, wouldn't

you? Yeah. Well, well, except that of

course I realize that this this, you

know, get out of jail free card is

doesn't is not does not apply to

everybody and doesn't apply to me. Fool

like you're propping up a system with at

least half of the money you make every

year. At least half. More than half if

you total it all up even in

Tennessee. and you're paying for a

system in

which like you're the it's only downside

for you and it's upside for people who

are mocking the laws that you pay to

enforce. I don't

like do you feel like foolish? Yeah, you

feel like a sucker. But also, what's the

what's the alternative? Because if I

were to say, well, hey, if they don't

have to follow the law, then neither do

I. Well, really quickly, the system will

come along and disabuse me of the notion

that this is a this is that you have as

many rights as a Asian. there legally.

Yeah, exactly. Because I don't. So that

won't apply to me, especially as a, you

know, as a dreaded white man. So,

uh, so we're kind of left with no

choice. I'm only throwing it out there

because you said you were becoming much

more radical and I'm trying to

accelerate the process by pointing out

some things that I want you to think

about. I appreciate that. It's It'd be

hard to accelerate it at this point. I

can

tell. I love it. There's a forest fire

of truth within you, Matt Walsh. Thank

you for submitting to all this. That was

I really enjoyed it. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you.

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