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Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell

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Summary

Core Theme

The core theme of this content is Bob Lazar's account of his alleged work at a secret facility (S4, near Area 51) involving reverse-engineering extraterrestrial spacecraft and propulsion systems, and the subsequent personal and societal implications of his claims.

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two one boom and we're live first of all

cheers gentlemen let's have a little

toast relax bob thank you very much for

doing this i really appreciate it i understand

understand

that you've told this story many many

times you've been grilled many many

times and it's very stressful for you so

i really really appreciate your time

for people who don't know the story

there is a documentary

jeremy corbell has a documentary out

right now it's called bob lazar area 51

and ufos and flying saucers and flying

saucers bombs are air 51 and flying okay um

i first heard your story decades ago

i've i told you last night we went out

to dinner i've seen pretty much every

interview you've ever given i've

followed the story incredibly closely

but for people who don't know the story

let's give them the bullet points you

used to work

at area 51 in area 51 you got you you

went like

well you know we want to be accurate

okay area s4 s4 okay it's about 15 miles

south of area 51. okay um

um you

you worked

worked in

what would you how would you describe it

i i guess

within the area 51 compound you can call

that a subset of area 51.

and you got that job before that you

were working

before that i had worked at los alamos

right national labs in new mexico and

you were involved in what kind of work

nuclear weapon development physics i

mean that's they do everything there so

how do they approach you

to say hey bob once you come on out to

well the way this went down was um

at that time it was 1982 i

had put

a jet engine in my my honda

and los alamos put it on the front page

of the paper

said you know uh

los alamos man physicist at the lab you know

know

built this 200 mile an hour you know on

the jet car that i drove to work every day

day

so uh so i was known in los alamos the

guy with the weird car and you know you

could hear it from you know a mile away anyway

anyway

the day that came out on the front page

of the paper

was the day edward teller the father of

the hydrogen bomb was giving

a lecture

down there at the lab

and we didn't have much going on that

day in our group and i asked if i could

go down there and

and

i went down there early and ed teller

was outside

leaning on a brick wall there and

reading the front page of the paper now

there's a guy out of history so i

introduced myself hey i'm the guy you're

reading about there and we talked for a

little while and it was cool

uh you know fast forward to years later

i had moved out to las vegas

and had you know left los alamos and

you know went on to other things and i

wanted to get back into the scientific

community yeah i left start other

businesses and

and that sort of thing so i sent resumes

out and one of them went out to ed

teller and referenced our meeting

you know back back in that the day

and uh anyway he remembered me and

and

gave me a reference somebody to contact

at egng

and that's pretty much how it started so

you get a phone call or a letter like

well i got a

what did i get i got a letter initially

and um went down for an interview

probably a couple times and it was down

at eg g special projects which was um

at mccarran airport at that time out in

las vegas and did they give you any sort

of job description of what you were

applying for um they said it was for ed

i can't remember exactly what they did

this was a long time ago but i i think

it was um

advanced propulsion or something like

that something relatively generic and

they said it's in a remote area um

you know it's gonna be some days on some

days off and um

you know it was kind of a

it was kind of uh not exactly a

full-time job but you might have to be

out there for two weeks at a time and

take two weeks off so it was kind of uh

the work schedule would be kind of

broken up

and did this seem attractive to you or

did it seem weird

no it really wasn't weird because people

that work at the test site anybody

that's familiar with the area up there

um you know working at the nuclear test

site uh or at the tonopod test range

north of there uh that's typically how

things go so you had known about it from

the scientific community because the

area 51 at that time was no they didn't

say anything about area 51. okay so they

just said it was in a you know in a

remote location and you just know it was

up at the test site right so but there

was no mention of area 51 at that time

so they've done

hundreds of nuclear tests in nevada and

nevada that whole area was there's been

there's giant chunks of nevada the

people yeah there's a big piece of

nevada and it's split up into different

areas there's a nuclear test site

there's area 51 there's the tonopod test

range north of that there's little

sub-areas there's areas where they test

chemical weapons and things like that so

it's all broken up as a you know

gigantic test area so take me back to

first day on the job

you accept a job

they take you out there yeah

yeah

the first day really i didn't really get

to see a whole lot the first day was

essentially just paperwork that's when i

flew into area 51 proper

and i left mccarran airport

and flew what they call the janet flights

flights

just um

you know a passenger plane from las

vegas to area 51

and it was really just going through

a mountain of paperwork that day

from security clearances to um

god there was

it was like two or three hours of just

solid paperwork and that was that was

really an uneventful first day

when did you realize that at what point

in time did you say hey

this is not

normal work like this doesn't even seem

like it's from this planet

that i can't tell you what day that

occurred on because so much time has

gone by

the days have kind of fused into one and

i can't separate the days was it a slow

burn or was there a moment of recognition

recognition

well the

the first inkling i had was when i i

came in normal there's this facility

that is at s4

it's in the side of a mountain and

and

normally we had pulled in with the bus

and gone around the front through a

normal double door

this time that i went in there were

hangar doors open

i went into the hangar door and in the

hangar door was the disc the flying

saucer that i worked on

i saw it sitting there and we walked by

it had a little american flag stuck on

the side and i thought oh my god this

finally explains all the flying saucer

stories this is just an advanced fighter

and it this is [ __ ] hilarious right

so i went by i slid my hand alongside it

i got reprimanded immediately for

touching the thing

and uh there was a guy an armed guard

that followed us in and just said keep

your eyes at forward and your hands at

your side and just walk in the door so

that was the first time i had seen

anything that was weird

it was some time later that i was

introduced to my um

my lab partner barry

and we had some of the subcomponents of

the craft

in the lab

and barry was very anxious to get a new

lab partner so he was very talkative and

couldn't wait to show me different

things and it was in the demonstration

of the reactor working where it caught

my attention to where

this is technology that doesn't even exist

exist

so i mean that was the first time i knew

that this is

really something different what was it

what was it what was a

what was it about this reactor that made

technologically well it was the i

actually have to back up because there

were some briefings that i read it

before that that

that

you know certainly gave me the

impression that this was going to be a

weird job but this was the first

hands-on thing

this was a small reactor about the size

of a hemisphere about the size of a basketball

basketball

on a metal plate and when it was running

it produced a gravitational field a

gravitational field of its own now this

is something that we can't do we can't

produce any gravity the only way we get

gravity is from large quantities of mass

but there's no machine we can have that

turns on that makes gravity like

you know you can turn on an

electromagnet and it makes a magnetic

field we can't make a gravitational

field anyway this device was producing

that and barry said

almost like he was bragging go ahead try

and try and touch the sphere and i i

couldn't it would it pushed my hands

away just like two like poles of a

magnet so that was uh so like when you

take two magnets and try to press them

together yeah you have this each other

yeah kind of cushion feeling but you

can't you can't get them together the

closer you put them the more they push

but then you felt that physically with

my hand yeah now there's nothing there's

nothing that does that

and that immediately caught my attention

going wow this is something else what

was your thought like when you felt that

and you knew that there was nothing that

you were aware of that could produce

that connected me to the briefings that

i read

on the the first day at s4 was that uh

you know everything that i had read was

apparently accurate

what were you reading

i read it was kind of an overview

this project

was to back engineer

the alien craft and

specifically it was to try and back

engineer and see if we can duplicate the

technology with available materials

now to do this they split the project into

into

you know many different pieces for

several reasons they do this on all

classified projects so uh nobody has the

complete story but uh they

compartmentalize everything now we had

the power and propulsion system so what

the briefings they gave me were like a

one or two page overview of some of the

other projects that were going on you

know on the craft the only reason they

do that is just in case what you're

working on is connected intimately in

some way that we don't know of to one of

the other projects you have to know

there excuse me their existence so um

you know i but

again everything from metallurgy to

um you know weapon potential the craft

and these were all you know essentially

very short briefings but mine was just

power and propulsion and

it made it very clear that what i read

was accurate

so when you're reading that before you

actually saw the reactor

what were your thoughts on what they

if you knew that something like that

didn't exist

and they're describing it in the briefings

briefings

what did you think you were going to see

i really i i didn't know at the time i

mean i was reading i thought is this

just some kind of test um

see if you're crazy well not to see if

i'm crazy to

you know a lot of times they'll take in

real high security uh

jobs i mean they'll intentionally insert

nonsense into them um whether it's to

confuse the fact or if for someone was

to leak it out

they would carry that information along

and know where it came from so i

read through the documents but you know

i didn't know if this was you know part

of some kind of test or um

you know or what or was it potentially

realistic i mean i really didn't

consider it being

all that possible as far as being uh

the actual thing that i was going to

work on at the time how did they turn it on

the the reactor yeah the reactor can be

turned on or turned off in a lot of

different ways um the way barry showed

me at the hemisphere is removed

there's a small tower in the middle when

you put the hemisphere on the reactor activates

activates

the reactor shuts down it's it's load

sensing so if there's if there's no load

on the reactor at all it shuts down when

there's a load present on it it starts

up again load meaning

you can consider it an electrical load so

although it doesn't necessarily operate

electrically there's no wiring that

connects any of the sub components

together whatsoever they just have to be

in the immediate vicinity it's uh

it is but the stuff is borderline magic

and that's essentially where we left it

you know when i left the project

so there was no progress made

there was some progress i mean we did

identify at least we think some

processes and

and had a rough idea we think of what

was going on but

i think this is a problem

that they've had for a long time

and um

you know i was replacing somebody

that barry worked with prior to me and i

think there was some horrific accident

that i didn't have a whole lot of

information on but you know barry

alluded to that

horrific accident like where someone

died or yeah where somebody died because

they were trying to tamper with things

or figure out how something worked yeah

the reactor in particular

but yeti let you touch it

yeah i think what they were trying to do

was cut into one now they had they had

more than one there and they that was

supposedly there was an unannounced

nuclear test and

and

that's what it was at the time remember

they would still do an underground

nuclear test at the test site um but

from what i understand according to

barry there was an attempt made now this

must have been a pretty desperate intent

because it's not a very scientific

process to cut you know analyze

something that way but it looked like

they used a plasma cutter or something

like that to cut into an

operating reactor how many of these

things did they have they had nine nine

craft altogether i only got hands on

with one of them so i can't really

say what the how the others operated did

you see the other ones yeah at one time

and only one time the bay doors that

between the hangers were all open and i

could see all the way through and

and

were they all exactly the same no they

were all different different shapes yeah

but they were all from somewhere else

yeah absolutely now

now

did anyone make any attempt to explain

or to

to tell you where they came from no no

no one is the least bit interested in

letting everybody know

all the facts they want to give you the

minimum information that's necessary to

complete your task so

you're not getting the story of where

they came from you're not getting the

story of what how much progress other

people are making you just focus on

the small component but they gave you

some indication that they've been

working on these for a while yeah

when do you think they

acquired these

i really couldn't say

i think they've been around for a while so

they bring you into this room you

see this reactor working you you realize

this is nothing that as far as like the

scientific community at current time

has the ability to create

we still don't

what is your life like from that moment

on is that where everything changes

because you do you i mean i would

imagine the moment you actually make

contact with something that's

extraterrestrial whether it's an object

or a being something where you can

actually absolutely be certain it's not

from here

your whole paradigm the whole world you

live in is now a different place well

this is the only time it became exciting

you know the rest of the time the it was really

really

an ominous feeling being at work but it

at that time

it was exciting i mean this was now i

knew we were on the absolute be actually

beyond the cutting edge of science and i was

was

i was so absolutely excited to be there

every single time i was um

you know it would this was a fantastic

however

in short order it began to concern me we

really have no idea what we're talking about

about and

and

the excitement kind of turned to dread

at some point

because the amount of power we're

dealing with is astronomical i mean to

affect gravity to produce the effects

like this equipment does takes huge

amounts of power and i've given the

example before of

you know taking a small portable nuclear

reactor and you know putting it back

into victorian times you know with the

scientists of the time and just dropping

it in a room and they come and look at

it and see that it's producing power

and wonder how it works so they start

taking it apart and

and

as soon as they get some of the

shielding off the people are going to

drop dead because of the radiation inside

inside

now the people have no idea that

radiation even exists back then

but anybody that comes in to check on

him will also drop dead and

you know

there's no reason that that exact

scenario couldn't happen with what we're

dealing with we have no idea how the

physics operate within this thing the

power levels are are like i said

astronomic like it's incredibly

dangerous to tinker with something like that

that

and you know in some respects we were

guinea pigs just try to find out how to

make this thing so they had a series

as far as you're

surmised that a series of different

scientists try to back engineer this

thing try to figure out what this thing

was and they would bring in new people

and like let's throw bob at it yeah yeah

and they i know i don't know how many

but i knew there was certainly one

before me and i knew he died

during the analysis of the or the

reactor itself and

you don't know how many have worked on

it and no one

gave this could have been there for

50 years it could have been there for

five years when they're giving you

instructions what are they saying like

when they're giving you direction

they're showing you all the stuff like

what what are they saying what

specifically what are they asking of you

well essentially what they ask is is

what i said all we are just to gather as

much information as possible find out

how it operates and see if we can

duplicate it so but they always realize

you where it was from they never let you

ask questions about where it's from well if

the information i read in the briefings

was accurate now what i do have to say is

the information that pertained directly

to the reactor

was accurate what i read did

did

i mean did jive with reality um in terms

of how

in terms of how it was made how what we

saw how it operated the materials how it

you know turned on and what was

discovered uh

discovered about it

i'm sorry the migraine is really making

it hard for me to thank you sorry no

we talked that before the podcast you

tell her buddy bob is getting a migraine

i know you're very stressed out by this

which is one of the reasons why i

appreciate you doing this um

where was i already we were talking oh

right yeah explained it

and uh

so there was some paperwork that

indicated that this was from the zeta

reticuli star system now

yeah now how they obtain that i haven't

i haven't the slightest idea but it

wasn't just from the zeta reticuli star

system it was

what they called zr3 so it was a third

planet in that star system so

there was no other information about it

other than that supposedly where the

craft came from now is that true i don't

know i have no way of verifying that but

that was printed in the same materials

that referenced the reactor now i looked

that stuff up when i went home and

and

zeta reticular is a binary star

two stars that orbit orbit one another

and it's only visible in the southern

hemisphere and it's about thirty some

odd light years away so that's literally

all the information i have about that i

don't know how they found out it came

from there and you also probably have

some suspicions that they give you some

disinformation like you were talking

about before they would yeah yeah to

i mean if you ever decided to talk about

this they added a bunch of nonsense to

make whatever is factual look ridiculous

right or be able to trace it down like

hey this facts came out and you know

this lazar guy said it you know came

from zeta reticulate so they knew it was

when we read zeta reticulate we're like

what in the [ __ ] is this well reading

all of this stuff it was what in the

[ __ ] is this you're like why did i sign

up for this

no no

to me this was cool this is interesting

i said i was just excited to be out in a

secure area you know in the middle of

the desert i said this is awesome how

old are you

i get as in my 20s

yeah so you're probably

totally geeked out oh yeah

this was this was great i mean i i was

excited so i didn't care

reading through everything and so you

read through all the zeta reticuli thing

but then when you see the actual

starship with the little american flag

sticker on it well that was

was that later or before that

that

that was before so before so you see the

thing before and you say oh this is

where what's that before

hard so many years yeah i can't

either way it doesn't matter the days

have fused together it's so hard to

separate what happened in each visit do

you remember the thought process when

you read that it's from zeta reticuli

yeah it it it it didn't hit me like a

ton of bricks or anything it's just like

yeah okay

you think it was [ __ ] i don't know

this is where i don't know now i don't i

mean because when i read it i hadn't

verified anything and this was just a

bunch of stuff i was reading and i

thought maybe after this they're just

going to give me a test and see what i

can remember in right crazy information

and it would but

like i said when i finally

went in with barry um

and had hands-on

experience with what they were talking about

about

it taught on a completely different

meaning so there's a plate there's this

thing that looks like a half a

basketball and when it's on you can't

come anywhere near it you can't touch it

right how is

what is

gravity about that like the the concept

of gravity to most people gravity is

bringing something towards it right well

i guess you would say it's anti-gravity

it's gravity shifted 180 degrees it's uh

you know anti-gravity

anti-gravity

and did they have any understanding

about what could possibly create this effect

effect

did they have any

areas where they'd like you to look into

well

they knew there was a fuel source in it

and they were proficient

at making it work

and again my analogy to something like

this is you can drop a motorcycle off in

the wagon train days and just leave it

with the keys parked outside you know

somebody's place everybody will come

around it and they'll poke and prod and

eventually they'll turn the key get it

to start and become proficient at

writing it

yeah but they won't be able to

understand what the hell's going on they

won't be able to make the plastic fender

much less anything else and i think

that's exactly the state we were at we

played around with the parts long enough

before i got there where they could make

the reactor operate

take the fuel out and know that it makes

it work

how exactly what was going on

in the reactor

remained a mystery at the time

i think we made some progress on

what was going on inside but i don't

think anybody really knew anything they

could just watch what was going on and

make note of it how long were you there

i'd say about six months or so and what

what progress was made while you were there

there

well we came up with a bunch of

reasonably good ideas about how the

reactor worked

and one of them was the base the square

base of it was essentially like a

cyclotron which is a small particle

accelerator a circular one particle

accelerators linear particle

accelerators are just a you know

long tube essentially and they

accelerate particles with high voltage

and you know radio frequencies till they

reach high speeds but a cyclotron does

that in a smaller circular area and

there is this

very heavy element fuel element 115

something that wasn't on our periodic charts

charts

at the time but it is now it is now yeah

when did it become on the periodic table

now the way the charts now you know i

don't remember do you remember when they 2004

2004

durhamstat germany i think is where they

first fabricated four atoms they lasted

220 milliseconds with the atoms it's

nothing right and then it later was

discovered a couple more times they

could fabricate it then they gave it

they gave it a place then on the

periodic chart after that called it

muscovium so they told you about this

stuff in

1982 yeah well we can 82 what what year

was this it was 88 and 89 when i was

there 82 is one 82 was when you're in

los alamos i'm sorry yeah so 88.89 they

told you about this stuff so this was

not like no they didn't they didn't tell

me about it that's one of the things

that this group came up with

the um um

i keep losing my train of thought with

this thing

so this one area this

this element 115 was the fuel yeah it

the the world will forgive you for

having a migraine i can i just it's

really hard to think throughout this case

case

i just want to say one yeah definitely

as i said one thing you know but for the

last 30 years

people have just been on the attack on

bob you know getting to know him the

personal effects on his life it's really

hard to understand unless you meet his

family and his wife

i mean this is the last thing he wanted

to [ __ ] do was have to talk yeah we

should explain that jeremy you and i had

this conversation i watched your documentary

documentary

we had this conversation and i said i

have to talk to him yeah the document

there's there's been detractors there's

been a bunch of people that called

[ __ ] on many of the things that

you've said but over time

many of the things that you talked about

even in the 80s have proven to be true

things that people said were not true

were proven to be true element 115 was

one of them

right right right

element 115 the fuel they had was stable

in other words it didn't decay it wasn't

emitting radioactivity um when they

synthesized the two or three atoms of

the 115 uh it did decay

and it was not a stable element so

they're they're kind of two different

things but this is kind of typical elements

elements

always have or pretty much always have

uh stable isotopes and unstable isotopes

like i think cesium has like

30 unstable isotopes to it so all right

well hydrogen for example you're

familiar with hydrogen gas

it's stable it's not radioactive but

there's also two other types of hydrogen

deuterium and tritium and deuterium

isn't radioactive it's another

stable isotope hydrogen but tritium is

radioactive now they're all hydrogen but

they just have a different amounts of

neutrons so it's the same thing with

other elements n element 115. depending

designates the isotope but it's 115 they

will continue to take

or experiment and try and make 115 at

different isotopes and i'm sure

eventually they'll come up with a stable

version but it's the stable version that

has the properties that we're talking

about so they somehow or another had

acquired a stable version did they say

that the stable version had come with

this craft it absolutely came with the

graft yeah so at the time you having a

firm knowledge of the periodic chart and

knowing what was real and what wasn't

real what was your reaction to having

this stable element 115 that wasn't even

supposed to exist well everything was

impossible right i mean down down to the

metal i i did get a chance

uh to look inside the craft on only one

occasion and this was important because

where the reactor sat

might have been critical to how it

operated since everything operates

without any interconnection so the

placement of components might be

critical so they allowed me to go inside

and and look at it um

dude again i forgot where the hell i am

so you're going into this craft and what

are you thinking when you're inside of

it like what are you seeing it's um

it's a very ominous feeling because it's

there are no at first of all everything

is one color it's like a dark pewter color

color

and there are no right angles anywhere

it's as if somebody took uh i've said

this before somebody took a a model out of

and fashioned it out of wax and then

heated it just for a short time so

everything melted everything looks like

it's fused together everything has a

radius of curvature where two uh items

meet it's uh it's a really weird looking thing

thing

but um uh

there was almost nothing

other than a small foldable hatchway that

that

that looked recognizable everything was uh

was really unworldly

depicting it a way to describe it so you

you get inside this thing and it's

designed for something that's much

smaller than a human being yeah you

can't really stand up till you get to

the very center of it and how tall are you

you

i'm 5 10. and what do you think this was

designed for i'd say something close to

half my height wow

so these little

three foot tallish creatures

yeah and the the seats were small too i

mean obviously it was made you know for

something something small but there's no

like there's there's nothing else in

there there's just seats the reactor and

some of the sub components there's no

there's no control panels there's no

bathroom there's no

no decorative uh components or artwork

or anything that you would recognize or

trim i mean it's just a very bare bones

thing you're not seeing any screens

well there are archways around it that

are part of the superstructure and

and

that one of the archways can become transparent

transparent

when i was in there there was another

group working on one of the archways and

you could call that a screen more or less

less

so through that archway it would be it

would maintain the solidity the the solid

solid

whatever metal it was yeah but you could

yeah it just became transparent yeah i

saw that happen once or twice before i

left did you ask any questions about

what the phone no there's no there's no

asking questions no

but when you watch something become

transparent and you realize it's still

there but you could now see through it

yeah i mean now that's not that

impressive we do have some liquid

crystal materials that are like that

you know they are seen in smart glass

yeah they call it smart glass so this is

just uh and i don't know if the craft is

made of

you know an advanced metal or a ceramic

it was cold to the touch

so um you know i would lean in more

towards the metal you're not allowed to

ask questions

no the only there they work on the buddy

system so i can only exchange ideas and

talk to barry

now this really interferes with science

because science is based on free

discussion and ideally you get a bunch

of guys together exchange ideas work on

problems and that's how things move forward

forward

but they're so over the top concerned

about security they split everything off and

and

everybody becomes stagnant it it

it just destroys any of the progress you

can make or at least makes it go so slow

um they i think they wind up shooting

themselves in the foot which is probably

why they

arrived at this bottleneck that they

needed to get this madman with a jet

powered honda to come in and see what he

could do i think that was an act of

desperation i think they wanted someone

that thinks out of the box and let's

just give this guy a try here because

they weren't and uh they might have done this

this

four more times since uh you know up to

the point in time today assuming they're

still working on this thing

and when you see this craft and you're

inside was there any

indication that there was an area that

they would use to control it to pilot

was there a pilot seat

was there's there were three seats they

sat around uh the reactor was in the

dead center of it

and then equidistant around there were

three seats

so and that's all there was a a large

you would they're not consoles there are

large rectangular objects also spaced

equidistant around the center um there's

nothing on them there's no buttons

there's no lights and they control the

same color everything is the same color

different shape right

and um

directly underneath them there's three

levels in the craft uh the main level is

what we're talking about directly under that

that

those are the gravity amplifiers the big

rectangular objects underneath them are

the gravity emitters that look like for

lack of a better word a trash can

hanging on a pipe three of those and

then the top layer

i this is just my personal belief i

think that has to do with a

a navigation or their version of a

computer uh with some planar panels

sensor panels around the craft that we

would call portholes but they're not

portholes they're just black areas and i

think that just determines its

you know position in space

but i was i i physically was in the

center section and i stuck my torso in

the bottom section and hung upside down

so i could see

how the gravity amplifiers were positioned

positioned

what is the the roughly the size of this

thing it's a i think it

i don't remember from being there but um

after all this stuff was over i had uh

john andrews a guy from the testers

model corporation and you know we sat

down and tried to figure out from what i saw

saw um

and known sizes of things and we came up

with 52 feet in diameter

so i think that's really small yeah so i

think that's a fair a reasonable guess

now you said there's nine of them and

you got a brief glimpse at the other

ones were they how are they different oh

they looked completely different one

looked like i called it jello mold and

it it looked like a classic jello mold

with the rippled sides to it one was a

very flat disc um

you know like a

oh i don't like a straw hat or something

like that that was sitting up on its

edge and the thin part of it had looked

like a projectile had been fired through

the edge of it so i don't know if they

were attempting to see if the metal

could be penetrated or if something or

if that's

where the thing came from maybe it was

shot down um but that was the only one

where i saw there was you know actual

physical damage to it

and that one was roughly the same size

they're all uh they were kind of too far

away to tell

and did

there was several teams that were

working on the propulsion system so

there was different teams that were

working on these different aircrafts i i

don't know i could only assume

now when you're

sitting in this thing

and you're looking at this

otherworldly craft

your your goal is to try to figure out

how this thing functions your goal is to

try to figure out how this reactor

i mean but you would imagine they would

give you more time than just one day to

check that out oh yeah it wasn't one day right

right

yeah i mean this is barry was there

i think barry was sleeping there i'm

sure they had now

that that isn't weird i mean up at the

toenap test range where they work on

stealth fighters you know you go i think

three weeks on one week off and you stay

up there too so it's not weird to stay

up at the test site right so um yeah i

think he pretty much didn't he acted

like he's been up there for a long time

yeah um

but he's still there yeah who knows do

you do you have contact with this guy no

oh no i wish i did i kind of thought he

was going to come out after i did right

and i think i took so much flack and

it's so much [ __ ] for what went on

i think i actually i wound up helping

security there and everybody became

afraid of you know doing or saying

anything after that

so what kind of reports did you have to

give like so you're not making much

progress right you're just trying to

figure out what this thing is and it

seems impossible so well we didn't

personally make them i mean we were

always there was never a lot of information

information

that we gained um

the guy

you would call him our supervisor his

name was dennis mariani

and kind of a military looking guy and

he would routinely pop in you know

during the day and you know hey what's

going on guys and he would essentially

relay any information anything new we

came up with i mean he was our

go-between you know where we presented

him the information then he took it to

wherever they were

you know

assembling all the data from everybody

no i assume you're working normal days

like an eight-hour day no no

no it was really weird that i would be

only called in on certain times and

certain days and they would be weird

hours too

most of the time was later in the

evening i mean i can get a call at 11

o'clock at night and they'll say you

know it's now 11 o'clock um

by 11 45 you need to be at mccarran

terminal and um

you know we'll let you know when

we have more information but what did

you do while you were there if you're

looking at this

object this

reactor and you can't figure out what it

is or how it works other than the fact

that it works on this element that we

don't even know about sure i mean the

thing was to

what you do in you know

with anything if you're trying to

analyze it all you can do is perform tests

tests

and all we did is try and come up with

every kind of test we possibly could i

mean we tested you know it

it violated

a lot of what we thought was impossible

to violate i mean one of the first laws

of thermodynamics i mean essentially any

machine any device that operates always

makes extra heat

nothing works at 100 efficient

even the headphones you're wearing

anything that takes power some of that

power is going to be con converted to

heat and it's just wasted

this didn't i mean we looked at back

then we had infrared cameras they're

different today but back then you had to

pour liquid nitrogen

into the camera to cool the sensor down

and um

and get these infrared images you've seen

seen

but it never got no matter what the load

was on the reactor it never got above

the ambient temperature which is

impossible i mean you're you know

pulling out huge amounts of power and

nothing ever gets warm

we tried measuring magnetic fields and

there was was nothing there so we

started playing around with the

emission from the emitters the gravity

wave itself

and saw what we could do with it and how

it was focused so we really spent all

our time

just trying to see

what the stuff can do and what we can

control so you were seeing what it could

do but you couldn't ever figure out how

it was doing it

no not really i mean we really we really

could only use a or come up with a best

guess and

now i can't say we really

that i could absolutely state for

certainly or certainty how anything

actually worked now

now

how do did you know at all how they were

piloting it because some they were doing

some tests where they're having these things

things

fly around in the sky

and this is

what gets us deeper into your story

i was out there for uh

one test um

right in fact i was in with barry in the

lab and dennis came in and said uh we're

about to run the test why don't you guys

come out or i think he said barry why

don't you come out here and bring bob

with you uh we went out there and

the craft was already outside the hangar

and was just preparing to lift off now

they were in communication with somebody

in the craft so there's a person in the

crowd yeah there was

certainly a person in there now it's not

a comfortable place to be in because

it's small so the guy has to be sitting

on the floor in the middle uh my best

guess and this is the same specific

craft that you heard that was because

you were that was the only craft that

you were the only one that i i touched

and worked on um

and it it quietly lifted off the ground

which was incredibly impressive to see

quietly or silently what's

what's

well quietly because it

didn't make sense

it produced um

a little corona discharge from the

bottom a corona discharge is kind of a

high voltage brush little bluish glow

discharge as it was lifting off the

ground you can hear a slight hiss sound

now as soon as it cleared the ground by

about five or ten feet

maybe even less than that the hissing

stopped and the blue gold disappeared so

it lifted off quietly and then it

hovered silently if you want to be specific

specific

wow so then what kind of maneuvers was

it doing

it took uh for that particular time it

took off moved a little around around to

the left and right and then sat back down

down

the um

the craft itself um

they communicated with it with a reg

because i saw the guy talking

in a regular vhf radio

to the person in the craft and i even

saw the frequency that was on the

the frequency counter of the uh

communication the transceiver there um

but what's weird is

he shouldn't be able to communicate

with the craft with a radio the radio

the radio wave should bend around the

craft i mean it shouldn't be possible

every single thing about these the craft

and the way they operated

didn't make any sense to us i mean

that's something we talked about for a

while after why should the frequency

bend around the craft well

well

you really have to look at the way the

gravity wave comes out of the craft

there's a the reactors in the center and

there's a waveguide that goes up to the

top there's actually a small appendage

that sticks out at the top of the craft

and it produces a heart-shaped

gravitational distortion around the

craft now if the craft is sitting in the

air and you walk underneath it and look up

you actually cannot see the craft the

light bends around it your bending

gravity bends light it bends radio waves

it's um

it it shouldn't be possible to

communicate with a craft that has an

envelope around it that's distorting all

forms of energy but

but

they were apparently in contact with it

somehow or another through some

unexplained way that they don't bother

explaining to you

so this thing gets up it just does some

very simple maneuvers left right left

right goes down

um and

did they discuss this with you i mean

they said they wanted you to see it no

they they just wanted no they they

didn't discuss anything with me it said

it sat down we looked around for a bit

and barry said let's go back we went

back in the lab all we got to do is see it

it um

fast forward

to some months later

i did have the test flight schedule of

the craft now they had times they had

designated high performance tests this

obviously wasn't one

that was a high performance test the

high performance test went goes above

the mountain range and they do much more

radical moves with the thing look this

is a prized item and they're not doing

anything like taking it out of the

atmosphere or flying around to other

countries or anything like that

they just play with this thing right

over the test site

but they were doing some radical moves

with it

and since i had the test flight schedule statistically

the

amount of traffic and the surrounding

areas on the highway was lowest on

wednesdays and that's why

dennis told us that

all the test flights occurred only on

wednesdays because it'd be the least

chance that anyone would see what's

going on

and this was before the the government

had expanded the forbidden territory

around area 51 and papoose lake and all

that stuff right

yeah i think that occurred

after my story came out then people

started going up on the mountaintops and

trying to look down into there and they

kind of freaked out and then did the

land grab and pushed everybody back but

yeah that i think all that occurred long after

after

i'm sorry that i came out so

you're working there and while you're

working there you're under this crazy schedule

schedule

forgive me for explaining your story but you

you

uh would get these phone calls you would

have to go to the to the airport at 11 p.m

p.m

and your wife started thinking that you

were having an affair

yeah apparently so

um now i did give my permission to have

you know as as part of the

you know security clearance process um i

i gave written permission to have the

phones monitored and things of that sort

so they weren't doing any covert stuff

they um

you know with any queue clearance or

which is civilian top secret clearance

or military top secret clearance they go

talk to friends and

you know

place places you've been make sure

you're not connected to foreign

countries but you know monitoring your

phone is nothing unusual however

however they

they

insisted that

you know you don't even talk

to your loved one to your partner to

your wife whatever about what's going on

so she was essentially in the dark

and didn't know the phone was being monitored

monitored well

well

part of the security clearance

is that not only do you not have any

connections to foreign countries and

aren't a maniac but you have to have a

stable home life too

well she started having an affair with a

flight instructor

now they were monitoring this on the

phone and they knew it and i didn't

so they stopped me

coming in and their attitude at the time was

was

we need to see how this is going to play

out and if lazar is going to get a

little weird or anything so

let's just

you know hold him off from coming in and

and

you know see what happens and they

explain this to you what was happening

well after the fact yeah because time

kind of went on and

and

there were guys that were following me

around and i started getting a little

concerned going well

ted are they

booting me out of the project and if so

they're not just going to let me hang

out at home and go get a new job knowing

what i know so

as time went on i started getting a

little concerned and

i took my closest friends and just kind

of got together and i said hey

remember that job i told you about

this is what's going on

and uh like you don't need to take my

word for it

on wednesday night we need to all go out

here i want to show you what's going on

so i took everybody and we went out to

um remember since i had the test flight

schedule and went outside the base

out into the desert and so everybody

could see you know one of the high

performance tests

and you know it left quite an imprint on

everybody so they knew i wasn't and

there's videos of these tests right yeah

but remember this is in the

it's in in the dark in the 80s with a

big monster-sized camcorder and you got

you know a bright light jumping around

but uh yeah i mean we did video of it

but there's no

by today's standards it's but is your

video specifically available the video

that you took

yeah well george knapp has it it's is it

i have no idea jeremy yeah i show clips

of it in my film it's it's online and

someone did a deep analysis of it uh it

was interesting uh to take a look at how

well this microphone up to your face

about a fist from your face all right

um you know to see how his video looks

now but as far as video evidence i mean

we are talking 80s camp was the most

important thing is the human story here

everybody that he took up there on three

separate occasions they don't all like

each other they don't all talk they all

agree on one thing they saw something

that night at the exact point in time

and space that babazar said and remember

this is 17 15 17 miles south of air 51.

no one even knew really about air 51

we're talking papoose lake and they all

agree they saw something that night they

had never seen before and they've never

seen since right when he said it so

that's one of like the six things where

i'm like how did he know you can dismiss

him i i tried to dismiss it but some

things we can't get around and and

there's about five or six of them how

did he know about this if jamie wants to

find that video right now what would he

look under

bob lazar ufo

s for

area 51 just kind of like that uh so

it's like this s4 ufo video bob lazar

and a guy does an analysis but you're

not analyzing these 80s videos right he

from the very beginning bob never said i

have proof of my story and i'm going to

tell the world he said at the very

beginning i cannot prove my story that's

not why i'm telling this george knapp

convinced him to tell people

and he lived through it and i i didn't

believe it either until i i talked with george

george

okay so you

you filmed these

this test flight one test flight and

then you get caught

actually it was i think the third time

because it

we went out there the first time

everybody saw it everybody was amazed

because it did some radical maneuvers

and um you know everybody had a lot of

maneuvers that i've seen i've seen the

video it doesn't i don't think there's

something we have now that does that no

in terms of like a human piloted craft

i mean i don't know obviously with the

government no it's it's impossible

nothing can move like that and remember

we didn't start filming from the very beginning

beginning

you know

we were waiting for something you know

to happen the craft took off and then

came flying at us stopped you know

turned it a right angle flew back and

then you know after it did some you know

amazing stuff

to get the camera and then we started

filming so it doesn't have all of it on

there it just has some the way i

describe it to my friends and they said

what does it look like i said take a

laser pointer and then have a wall and

then move it around the wall like you

know how it moves around the wall it

doesn't seem like it has anything to do

with inertia or physics or it's not

impeded in any way by the atmosphere

yeah that's what it looks like you're

essentially separated from reality as

crazy as that sounds with it being in in

case it's an own gravitational envelope

inertia is not going to affect it and

you know this is

this is how some of those recent

sightings of commander david fravor i'm

sure you've heard of the

ufo i mean he describes exactly

that the thing operates exactly the way

i was describing that's why

he was interested to talk to me um but

we saw this and

and

you know on the way home it's like hey

we got away with it we should try it

again the next test flight date so this

became a thing to do

and i think it was on

the third time

that we got caught i mean we started

becoming a little careless i think we

took a motor home out there

you know i mean it was like the

stupidest thing you could possibly start

tailgating yeah it was ridiculous and um

again you're in your 20s yeah and you

know what was funny was um

we went out there and

my friend gene huff and i were leaning

on the front of a vehicle and

and

just for some reason we just started

talking [ __ ] like uh well i hope they

realize that uh

i don't remember what we were saying but

you know that

something about attacking the base or

something along those lines and stealing

the craft or

something like that

and um

then about 20 feet in front of us we see

a little green light

fall on the ground and roll to us

and unbeknownst to us now it's pitch

black you can't see your hand in front

of your face there were a bunch of

guards standing right out there and they

had a night vision scope where they were

like from here to the wall looking at us

listening to us and the guy dropped it

and the scope rolled over to us and you

could see the green screen

you know we turn the lights on and all

these guys are there so

it was uh whoa yeah yeah so we did

incredibly stupid stuff and got caught

as we should have because so when they

catch you and they bring you in then

what happens well i went in for debriefing

debriefing

the following day i went to indian

springs air force base which is kind of

a defunct

base that they used to use at the

nuclear test site

and this is when they brought out um

the transcript of the phone call

with my wife

and you know they sat me down and we

said you know when we meant to keep the

secret we meant you can't tell your

friends right you know and it just being

sarcastic and trying to mm-hmm um and

then they got real serious

uh but this is where they

you know took the transcript out and

were reading me what uh

my wife and

and

you know our friend were talking about

and uh

it was a hard time so what happens from there

what do they do with you why don't they

arrest you

i don't i don't know i don't know why

i'm not sure they exactly they knew what

to do but they did let me go

that night and i went home

and that this is kind of when the most

stressful part started because you're

realizing you're being monitored

yeah now i know not only am i being

monitored but now i know i'm in trouble

and uh it wasn't a short time after that

that i contacted you know at that time the

the

only investigative reporter i had heard

of in las vegas was george knapp

and um you know told him some of the

story because i had no idea what the

hell was going to happen at that point

so george knapp

tries to

dissect your story tries to find holes

in it

tells it puts it online and makes

everybody aware of it and that's how i

found out about it yeah to make a long

story short

what happens yeah to really make a long

story short what happens from there on i

mean do they contact you and say hey bob

how

did they try to label you as crazy was there

there

there were boy there were a lot of

things that happened at you know between

that point um i'm leaving out a lot of

stuff to fill in the story

we'd have to go back to los alamos and and

and

well i really don't want to talk about

that the um

top secret weapons

stuff that you were working on

no i'm talking about the 115. um

well i don't know i have to think about

how i'd

i don't want to get myself into more

trouble by admitting something so

um i just have to dance around a couple

he was created just during the filming

of the movie people thought the movie's

great by the way thanks joe and uh it's

on netflix right now if anybody wants to

check it out and if you're one of those

people like me

who um you know i've always

loved the idea of ufos i became

extremely weary talking to people who

are ufo believers and ufo fanatics

because there's so many of them that are

full of [ __ ] and not just full of [ __ ]

they're they're childishly delirious

like the way they talk about things i

mean there's so many people that are

that i'm in contact they they reach me

in the night and they explain to me what

we're doing to the ocean is wrong and

like you're like okay this is one of the

well it's i mean it's no joke we've had

people literally camp out on our front

lawn and uh

you know

in some ways i can relate to some of

these people you know maybe some of them

did really have some kind of experience

or saw something and all their friends

think they're crazy but hey now there's

this guy i heard on the radio

and uh at least he knows i'm not full of

[ __ ] so i gotta talk to him and so most

of the

correspondents i get are people trying

to get a hold of me going bob you you

gotta listen to me i'm i'm coming to

talk to you i'm you know i'm driving

from oklahoma or whatever and and and

but some of them are just [ __ ] bad

[ __ ] crazy yeah they're frightening

there's a lot of schizophrenics that are

involved in the conspiracy world so

there's a lot of people that have real

issues joe

it would be a disservice to your

audience to not say that

we have to look at what's going on now

and understand i've heard

on your show a bunch of stuff about

what's going on now and to not really

understand what's going on now you can't

see bob's story in the correct light

after 30 years and at some point we

should just touch upon that

um the the biggest being that things

like the tic tac ufo case that came out

i've heard people even on the show say oh there's a glitch in the radar

oh there's a glitch in the radar that's a data poor perspective you just

that's a data poor perspective you just don't know yet what's really going on

don't know yet what's really going on commander fravor i was able to get the

commander fravor i was able to get the interview with him to talk with him way

interview with him to talk with him way before it became public i got that from

before it became public i got that from him he saw it other pilots saw it this

him he saw it other pilots saw it this is a big thing that's going on right now

is a big thing that's going on right now they had more sightings on the east

they had more sightings on the east coast recently cubes with spherical

coast recently cubes with spherical auras these are not aerodynamic and

auras these are not aerodynamic and these are the people we trust to defend

these are the people we trust to defend us on 911 commander favor protected los

us on 911 commander favor protected los angeles and 911. so we trust them but

angeles and 911. so we trust them but they're not trained observers

they're not trained observers radar

radar individuals see these things and the big

individuals see these things and the big the big one just to throw down so we can

the big one just to throw down so we can consider a story a little differently

consider a story a little differently there's more depth to it the big one is

there's more depth to it the big one is the united states government has

the united states government has admitted that they have been

admitted that they have been continuously studying the ufo phenomenon

continuously studying the ufo phenomenon that program was called a tip advanced

that program was called a tip advanced error or sorry

error or sorry was called awsap that that's the

was called awsap that that's the mother program george knapp got that out

mother program george knapp got that out they they announced through the new york

they they announced through the new york times about a tip

times about a tip but awesome these acronyms asap advanced

but awesome these acronyms asap advanced aerospace weapon systems applications

aerospace weapon systems applications program who cares

program who cares that was the mother program so they've

that was the mother program so they've admitted we didn't stop studying ufos in

admitted we didn't stop studying ufos in 1969 with project blue book we don't

1969 with project blue book we don't think it's crazy we actually want to

think it's crazy we actually want to reverse engineer the technology that's

reverse engineer the technology that's why on your other show you said what's

why on your other show you said what's this aav thing it's like they're making

this aav thing it's like they're making up another ufo name well hold on there's

up another ufo name well hold on there's a reason because in the documents the

a reason because in the documents the the dia documents that george knapp

the dia documents that george knapp released that everybody said was fake

released that everybody said was fake till now they know is real

till now they know is real they call them aavs which is advanced

they call them aavs which is advanced aerospace vehicles people are getting

aerospace vehicles people are getting the acronyms wrong so the reason for the

the acronyms wrong so the reason for the terminology change is so that we can

terminology change is so that we can mimic what we're reading in the dia

mimic what we're reading in the dia documents people can look for that now

documents people can look for that now so they changed the names to get people

so they changed the names to get people away from ufo or uap even like hillary

away from ufo or uap even like hillary clinton said on air right so what are

clinton said on air right so what are you talking about hillary clinton

you talking about hillary clinton hillary clinton

hillary clinton informed the public on jimmy kimmel oh

informed the public on jimmy kimmel oh jimmy we don't call them ufos anymore we

jimmy we don't call them ufos anymore we call them uaps unidentified aerial

call them uaps unidentified aerial phenomenon

phenomenon right so she kind of was giving their

right so she kind of was giving their the clintons are very into the ufo topic

the clintons are very into the ufo topic senator reid you know he he's done a lot

senator reid you know he he's done a lot for the for the subject the study of it

for the for the subject the study of it right

right so she informed the public so they could

so she informed the public so they could look for the right term so these terms

look for the right term so these terms are important because the dia in those

are important because the dia in those documents they've been calling them aavs

documents they've been calling them aavs for quite some time now and they change

for quite some time now and they change the name to anomalous no that that's

the name to anomalous no that that's kind of a misnomer

kind of a misnomer so

so they always mess around with things but

they always mess around with things but it's actually advanced right but when

it's actually advanced right but when they're describing it in the news they

they're describing it in the news they were calling an anomalous space vehicle

were calling an anomalous space vehicle totally and that's cool they were also

totally and that's cool they were also saying anomalous aerospace threats aat

saying anomalous aerospace threats aat right because they want the sense of a

right because they want the sense of a threat right so my point is all of if

threat right so my point is all of if people don't know this now and they

people don't know this now and they think this stuff is is fantasy this this

think this stuff is is fantasy this this part of it that we're studying it that

part of it that we're studying it that we take it seriously we're spending

we take it seriously we're spending money on it and that we're getting great

money on it and that we're getting great data from from visual pilots to to radar

data from from visual pilots to to radar that's why we know it's aerospace they

that's why we know it's aerospace they dropped from 80 000 feet but guess what

dropped from 80 000 feet but guess what that's the top scope of the spy 1 radar

that's the top scope of the spy 1 radar is 80 000 feet so the radar system they

is 80 000 feet so the radar system they were using it was coming from above that

were using it was coming from above that so my point is this

so my point is this if you don't understand that this is

if you don't understand that this is happening you're just behind the curve

happening you're just behind the curve because you don't have the information

because you don't have the information because of the stigma that you're

because of the stigma that you're talking about i saw you get totally

talking about i saw you get totally upset with the ufo topic i met you first

upset with the ufo topic i met you first when you're totally upset with the ufo

when you're totally upset with the ufo topic it's the people when

topic it's the people when when when you're doing your

when when you're doing your i'm sorry man when you're when you're

i'm sorry man when you're when you're doing your show you know the joe organ

doing your show you know the joe organ questions everything

questions everything i could see

i could see how

how how frustrating is trust me i have been

how frustrating is trust me i have been frustrated to hell luckily my mentors

frustrated to hell luckily my mentors george knapp and he's taught me the pit

george knapp and he's taught me the pit bull pitfalls as i went through it my

bull pitfalls as i went through it my whole point in this rant right here

whole point in this rant right here is just that we have to now look at

is just that we have to now look at bob's story but knowing the facts

bob's story but knowing the facts not someone saying it's a bird it's a

not someone saying it's a bird it's a plane it's a glitch

plane it's a glitch they're not and so if you don't know

they're not and so if you don't know that you just don't have the information

that you just don't have the information yet not just that knowing the facts as

yet not just that knowing the facts as we know him in 2019 not in 1988

we know him in 2019 not in 1988 absolutely and so what has he said

absolutely and so what has he said that has come true he's totally

that has come true he's totally unimpressed with it right what has he

unimpressed with it right what has he said this come true so i was like bob

said this come true so i was like bob they've announced gravity as a wave you

they've announced gravity as a wave you were right man you're vindicated and he

were right man you're vindicated and he looks at me and he's like well if you

looks at me and he's like well if you think about it jeremy i had like a 50 50

think about it jeremy i had like a 50 50 chance he was not very impressed right

chance he was not very impressed right when did they announce gravity as a wave

when did they announce gravity as a wave so they detected in a sense they

so they detected in a sense they detected gravity waves who were who was

detected gravity waves who were who was they

they you might know more there's two black

you might know more there's two black holes that were colliding and that's how

holes that were colliding and that's how they were able to detect yeah somebody

they were able to detect yeah somebody bill i don't know which group it was or

bill i don't know which group it was or what part of the government that's what

what part of the government that's what google's for yeah would it but they um

google's for yeah would it but they um you know built a gigantic gravity wave

you know built a gigantic gravity wave detector and pretty much

detector and pretty much detected that there are such things as

detected that there are such things as first observation of gravitational waves

first observation of gravitational waves it says it was in 2016.

it says it was in 2016. okay the first observation of

okay the first observation of gravitational waves was made on 14th of

gravitational waves was made on 14th of september 2015 right as announced by the

september 2015 right as announced by the ligo and virgo collaborators on the 11th

ligo and virgo collaborators on the 11th of february 2016 previously

of february 2016 previously gravitational waves had only been

gravitational waves had only been inferred indirectly via their effect on

inferred indirectly via their effect on the timing of pulsars in binary star

the timing of pulsars in binary star systems

the waveform connected by both ligo ligo observatories match the

ligo ligo observatories match the predictions of general relativity for

predictions of general relativity for gravity for a gravitational wave

emanating from the inward sp i'm trying to get this from the inward spiral and

to get this from the inward spiral and merger of a pair of black holes around

merger of a pair of black holes around 36 and 29 solar masses and the

36 and 29 solar masses and the subsequent

subsequent ring down

ring down of the single resulting black hole

of the single resulting black hole well that i mean

well that i mean yeah it's not he was in the 80s the

yeah it's not he was in the 80s the predominant theory was gravity is

predominant theory was gravity is produced by gravitons okay you know part

produced by gravitons okay you know part of theoretic theoretical particles but

of theoretic theoretical particles but um they're not they're waves they're not

um they're not they're waves they're not particles and that's so the thought is

particles and that's so the thought is that the way we experience gravity it's

that the way we experience gravity it's based on mass which is why the moon

based on mass which is why the moon which is

which is roughly one quarter the size of the

roughly one quarter the size of the earth has one sixth of the earth's

earth has one sixth of the earth's gravity so there's some sort of a

gravity so there's some sort of a computation you can make based on mass

computation you can make based on mass right and and remember

right and and remember we can observe

we can observe the effects of gravity but we have no

the effects of gravity but we have no idea what it is all we can do is observe

idea what it is all we can do is observe it and we can't make it the only way you

it and we can't make it the only way you can make gravity is just put more mass

can make gravity is just put more mass together and it's just a product of

together and it's just a product of gravity but if you can make a if you

gravity but if you can make a if you have a machine that makes gravity

have a machine that makes gravity you can pretty much do anything you can

you can pretty much do anything you can affect time you can have force fields

affect time you can have force fields all that stuff that's in science fiction

all that stuff that's in science fiction becomes reality if you have a machine

becomes reality if you have a machine that can make gravity and what we worked

that can make gravity and what we worked on in the desert was a machine that

on in the desert was a machine that makes gravity i love your analogy of

makes gravity i love your analogy of dropping off a small nuclear reactor to

dropping off a small nuclear reactor to the victorian era i love that that

the victorian era i love that that analogy because back then that was

analogy because back then that was impossible that was magic

impossible that was magic what you're talking about here the fact

what you're talking about here the fact that they just discovered this four

that they just discovered this four years ago that this is a wave when we're

years ago that this is a wave when we're as much as we know and as impressed as

as much as we know and as impressed as we are as we should be with how much

we are as we should be with how much more

more technologically advanced we are than

technologically advanced we are than every other creature on this planet

every other creature on this planet we're still in many ways in the

we're still in many ways in the adolescence of technological innovation

adolescence of technological innovation absolutely

absolutely absolutely if even adolescence and when

absolutely if even adolescence and when you're talking about this binary star

you're talking about this binary star system zeta reticuli and who knows how

system zeta reticuli and who knows how much longer these things have been

much longer these things have been around than us who knows what their

around than us who knows what their evolutionary cycle's been who knows what

evolutionary cycle's been who knows what i mean we might be talking about

i mean we might be talking about something that's a million years more

something that's a million years more advanced than us

advanced than us yeah yeah it could easily be now i'm not

yeah yeah it could easily be now i'm not in

in believe it or not i'm not into ufos i

believe it or not i'm not into ufos i don't follow stories or you know even

don't follow stories or you know even after your experiences no i'm fascinated

after your experiences no i'm fascinated with the technology and i i it really it

with the technology and i i it really it irks me like every night i go to sleep

irks me like every night i go to sleep that you know i don't

that you know i don't that it was my own doing essentially

that it was my own doing essentially that

that that prevented me from continuing on in

that prevented me from continuing on in the in the project i mean it's the

the in the project i mean it's the that to be on that cutting edge of

that to be on that cutting edge of technology is so alluring to me right

technology is so alluring to me right but

but you know by the same token i don't

you know by the same token i don't really care that there's aliens or where

really care that there's aliens or where they come from i mean the prize is the

they come from i mean the prize is the technology and that's what i'm

technology and that's what i'm fascinated by but so i don't listen to

fascinated by but so i don't listen to ufo stories and that sort of thing but

ufo stories and that sort of thing but george knapp is um

george knapp is um i mean he's the guy that has the context

i mean he's the guy that has the context and tries to thread everything together

and tries to thread everything together and

and what he recently told me is he found

what he recently told me is he found i don't know is either documentation or

i don't know is either documentation or people that he spoke to it's at this the

people that he spoke to it's at this the existence of this project the project

existence of this project the project that i was on it's something that they

that i was on it's something that they seem to take out every eight or ten

seem to take out every eight or ten years so that's a very specific memo and

years so that's a very specific memo and this is actually i this is the first

this is actually i this is the first time i'll be very clear with people

time i'll be very clear with people about it it's a big topic of

about it it's a big topic of conversation right now it's called the

conversation right now it's called the wilson memo

wilson memo you can look it up

you can look it up admiral wilson met with a scientist

admiral wilson met with a scientist who's actually was featured in one of my

who's actually was featured in one of my films

films everybody has been debating whether or

everybody has been debating whether or not this document

not this document of a conversation

of a conversation with a with a sitting admiral at the

with a with a sitting admiral at the time is a real

time is a real document it's an actual conversation

document it's an actual conversation that happened and this document is real

that happened and this document is real everybody wants to know the world is

everybody wants to know the world is going crazy right now in the ufo world

going crazy right now in the ufo world i'll tell you straight up right now

i'll tell you straight up right now i'm in the position to know and it is a

i'm in the position to know and it is a real document

real document that it is real so the conversation you

that it is real so the conversation you read in that

read in that that conversation was had i can't attest

that conversation was had i can't attest to everything

to everything you're not being very clear sure please

you're not being very clear sure please no problem

no problem so there was a document that is

so there was a document that is circulating right now that is really big

circulating right now that is really big it's going around everywhere people are

it's going around everywhere people are asking what is this talking about it's

asking what is this talking about it's called the wilson memo is what how you

called the wilson memo is what how you can find it online

can find it online the or the wilson leak there it is

the or the wilson leak there it is jimmy's got it the wilson memorandum use

jimmy's got it the wilson memorandum use of human volunteers no no no no no

of human volunteers no no no no no yeah so uh

yeah so uh admiral wilson meets with this scientist

admiral wilson meets with this scientist and they have this discussion oddly

and they have this discussion oddly enough at special projects at egng and

enough at special projects at egng and if i remember the document is from 2001

if i remember the document is from 2001 i'm telling everybody right now it's

i'm telling everybody right now it's real and we'll see my history is pretty

real and we'll see my history is pretty good with like saying if something's

good with like saying if something's real or not right so here we go the

real or not right so here we go the document comes out they meet at eg

document comes out they meet at eg special projects in 1989 they stumble

special projects in 1989 they stumble into a problem

into a problem this happens they put the technology

this happens they put the technology away and then they bring it back out and

away and then they bring it back out and see if material science has caught up

see if material science has caught up and if they can make any progress so

and if they can make any progress so this document kind of talks about this

this document kind of talks about this process the big thing i get from it and

process the big thing i get from it and a lot of it's vindicating to bob and one

a lot of it's vindicating to bob and one of the things that's vindicating besides

of the things that's vindicating besides the eg g thing

the eg g thing is that private industry so this guy's

is that private industry so this guy's an admiral and he says i found out about

an admiral and he says i found out about your sap your special access program i

your sap your special access program i need to know about it and he's going to

need to know about it and he's going to a private part of industry

a private part of industry and he is denied access

and he is denied access and he says i you know i should be

and he says i you know i should be running this program and they were able

running this program and they were able to deny him access

to deny him access so i think the takeaway here is check it

so i think the takeaway here is check it out i'm telling you that that is an

out i'm telling you that that is an actual correct that is a leak now

actual correct that is a leak now everything said in that document i'm i

everything said in that document i'm i don't know what are you talking about

don't know what are you talking about what what is said in that document

what what is said in that document specifically it's it's a between a

specifically it's it's a between a scientist and an admiral that are

scientist and an admiral that are sitting and they're having a meeting and

sitting and they're having a meeting and they're talking about

they're talking about the the search for the the ufo subject

the the search for the the ufo subject the search to get special access program

the search to get special access program access to all of these different things

access to all of these different things like reverse engineering programs

like reverse engineering programs so in this document they talk about it

so in this document they talk about it uh i believe that

uh i believe that this document that the person that went

this document that the person that went was employed by robert bigelow you know

was employed by robert bigelow you know one of the guys that has a couple of

one of the guys that has a couple of orbiting satellites and all that stuff

orbiting satellites and all that stuff who's the guy owned skinwalker ranch no

who's the guy owned skinwalker ranch no he's not he was the guy the walker okay

he's not he was the guy the walker okay yeah he used to own it there's a new

yeah he used to own it there's a new owner and i i interview him for my other

owner and i i interview him for my other film

film but there's a new owner and you'll be

but there's a new owner and you'll be hearing a lot more about that soon

hearing a lot more about that soon but uh like it'll just there's there's

but uh like it'll just there's there's stuff that you'll be hearing about

stuff that you'll be hearing about skinwalker ranching because there's a

skinwalker ranching because there's a new owner anyway the whole point of this

new owner anyway the whole point of this you know insertion here is just that

you know insertion here is just that that document kind of validates a lot of

that document kind of validates a lot of this idea bob just said that they make a

this idea bob just said that they make a little progress then they can't go

little progress then they can't go anywhere they tuck it away and then they

anywhere they tuck it away and then they bring it back out you know 10 years

bring it back out you know 10 years later and start working on it

later and start working on it what is the limiting factor i think bob

what is the limiting factor i think bob should speak on this but it's the

should speak on this but it's the material science

material science yeah it's really where physics is so i i

yeah it's really where physics is so i i can i can see them doing that i mean i

can i can see them doing that i mean i didn't have any

didn't have any uh

uh information on that but i think what you

information on that but i think what you know george uncovered is probably

know george uncovered is probably accurate that uh you know we try and do

accurate that uh you know we try and do what we can and once we reach a

what we can and once we reach a roadblock on we really can't figure it

roadblock on we really can't figure it out it's just friggin wait put the thing

out it's just friggin wait put the thing away wait for science to catch up and

away wait for science to catch up and you know a decade later let's take the

you know a decade later let's take the project out again and see all right now

project out again and see all right now where can we go but there's got to be

where can we go but there's got to be someone who remains informed right oh

someone who remains informed right oh yeah you've got your scientists like you

yeah you've got your scientists like you and barry you got your people that you

and barry you got your people that you compartmentalize you got these people

compartmentalize you got these people working on yeah there has to be some

working on yeah there has to be some people right that know everything you've

people right that know everything you've got security and then someone's going to

got security and then someone's going to be on the outside saying hey we need

be on the outside saying hey we need people to guard this building don't let

people to guard this building don't let anybody in for ten years i think i think

anybody in for ten years i think i think a lot of that is private industry and i

a lot of that is private industry and i think that's how they keep it yeah i

think that's how they keep it yeah i think that's how they literally because

think that's how they literally because the government is just so leaky i think

the government is just so leaky i think that's kind of what they're doing that's

that's kind of what they're doing that's what the document kind of proves you

what the document kind of proves you just articulated that that um it is in

just articulated that that um it is in control private industry what private

control private industry what private industry

industry some aerospace company something i don't

some aerospace company something i don't know yeah they wouldn't they would the

know yeah they wouldn't they would the guy with the admiral wouldn't name it in

guy with the admiral wouldn't name it in the car right in the conversation right

the car right in the conversation right so

so they

they still have these things supposedly

still have these things supposedly i would guess i mean i don't have any

i would guess i mean i don't have any information have you ever asked anyone

information have you ever asked anyone that has any inkling of any idea of

that has any inkling of any idea of where they got them or how they got them

where they got them or how they got them no but um

no but um something must have been said to me um

something must have been said to me um from barry

from barry and but i i it was just too long ago and

and but i i it was just too long ago and i i can't quite remember what was said

i i can't quite remember what was said but it

but it it just left a seat in my mind i think

it just left a seat in my mind i think at least one of them was part of an

at least one of them was part of an archaeological dig

archaeological dig so

so it's old

it's old something one at least one of them is

something one at least one of them is old i don't know if it was the one i

old i don't know if it was the one i worked on but i remember

worked on but i remember something to do with an archaeological

something to do with an archaeological dig whoa so that's uh

dig whoa so that's uh that means it's not just old it's

that means it's not just old it's ancient that'd be a great stephen

ancient that'd be a great stephen spielberg movie yeah right

spielberg movie yeah right [Laughter]

[Laughter] as all of it would yeah that took me out

as all of it would yeah that took me out when he said that for the first time

when he said that for the first time yeah that's a freak out right there just

yeah that's a freak out right there just a couple of dudes with some brushes

a couple of dudes with some brushes looking for a tyrannosaurus rex bone and

looking for a tyrannosaurus rex bone and metal and when did they find it you know

metal and when did they find it you know that they have nine of them well and how

that they have nine of them well and how could we have not heard about that what

could we have not heard about that what about the guys with the brushes how

about the guys with the brushes how could you uncover something like that

could you uncover something like that and joe's newspaper at home does i mean

and joe's newspaper at home does i mean they said it on that first day oh you

they said it on that first day oh you mean the roswell yeah yeah yeah you told

mean the roswell yeah yeah yeah you told me yeah yeah i have a cover what is this

me yeah yeah i have a cover what is this here james it's the document but i had

here james it's the document but i had to do some digging to find it yes it's

to do some digging to find it yes it's just kind of

just kind of yeah so this is where they meet at egng

yeah so this is where they meet at egng and this is admiral wilson and there's a

and this is admiral wilson and there's a lot more coming out now i want to be

lot more coming out now i want to be clear george didn't put this out he

clear george didn't put this out he didn't

didn't leak this out to anybody this is i can

leak this out to anybody this is i can tell you how i recorded this this

tell you how i recorded this this conversation so this was an employee

conversation so this was an employee of at the time robert bigelow and this

of at the time robert bigelow and this is in 2002 right do you remember when he

is in 2002 right do you remember when he had that government contract called

had that government contract called awesap the world all knows about now and

awesap the world all knows about now and he had nids that studied the ranch so

he had nids that studied the ranch so that 22 million everybody is saying it

that 22 million everybody is saying it was for atip um advanced aerospace

was for atip um advanced aerospace threat identification program

threat identification program the 22 million dollars was for ossap

the 22 million dollars was for ossap that was pushed through through congress

that was pushed through through congress three congressmen right an astronaut it

three congressmen right an astronaut it was pushed through

was pushed through and that's what that 22 million dollars

and that's what that 22 million dollars by the way they spend more money on

by the way they spend more money on viagra every year than they do studying

viagra every year than they do studying ufos if it was just this program which i

ufos if it was just this program which i think is funny but they probably make a

think is funny but they probably make a lot more money from fragrance they

lot more money from fragrance they probably do ufos well you never know how

probably do ufos well you never know how it seeds into population but anyway this

it seeds into population but anyway this program

program uh this is what was the mother program

uh this is what was the mother program so it it got the 22 million and really

so it it got the 22 million and really it was to study skinwalker ranch oddly

it was to study skinwalker ranch oddly enough that 22 million all was inspired

enough that 22 million all was inspired by the phenomenon they were seeing at

by the phenomenon they were seeing at skinwalker ranch because the scientists

skinwalker ranch because the scientists they're seeing vehicles come through

they're seeing vehicles come through like a space in the sky yeah we went

like a space in the sky yeah we went there i went through it yeah we

there i went through it yeah we interviewed

interviewed a bunch of people that seemed full of

a bunch of people that seemed full of [ __ ] but a couple that didn't but it's

[ __ ] but a couple that didn't but it's very very interesting totally any

very very interesting totally any there's but if you look i spent a lot of

there's but if you look i spent a lot of time in the area i'm not talking about

time in the area i'm not talking about those stories i'm saying there were

those stories i'm saying there were scientists hired by the government right

scientists hired by the government right through bigelow to study the ranch

through bigelow to study the ranch because they thought it was important

because they thought it was important and you know whatever whatever the point

and you know whatever whatever the point is that 22 million was to study that

is that 22 million was to study that then we have atip which is like an

then we have atip which is like an auxiliary kind of program of military

auxiliary kind of program of military settings like commander framers and that

settings like commander framers and that sort of thing this document is just one

sort of thing this document is just one of those things that has now come

of those things that has now come forward that through the bigelow studies

forward that through the bigelow studies it was government funded and then it was

it was government funded and then it was personally funded and then government

personally funded and then government funded

funded it's just one of those things that kind

it's just one of those things that kind of shakes you because you got this

of shakes you because you got this military guy who can't get access

military guy who can't get access because of the private industry that's

because of the private industry that's holding these

holding these non-terrestrial materials that they

non-terrestrial materials that they can't study it so that's the the claim

can't study it so that's the the claim right now give it some time let people

right now give it some time let people dig more into this

dig more into this it's fascinating man

it's fascinating man so

so you are

you are essentially

essentially you're you're

you're you're you're kicked out right you're you're

you're kicked out right you're you're out of the this program you can't work

out of the this program you can't work with these crafts anymore and

with these crafts anymore and do they give you any threats do they

do they give you any threats do they tell you what you have to do from here

tell you what you have to do from here on out

on out yeah well i mean the way it ended was

yeah well i mean the way it ended was um i told george knapp

um i told george knapp all this stuff and um you know he said

all this stuff and um you know he said well let's just get it on tape should

well let's just get it on tape should something happen at least we have a

something happen at least we have a record of it and um i don't remember

record of it and um i don't remember what the emphasis was but um at some

what the emphasis was but um at some point george wanted to air it and he

point george wanted to air it and he said

said you know you make the call on it

you know you make the call on it and look if at any point you change your

and look if at any point you change your mind

mind we won't air it and it came down to the

we won't air it and it came down to the day where george wants to put her on the

day where george wants to put her on the five o'clock news he said hey this is

five o'clock news he said hey this is important stuff people have to know

important stuff people have to know about it and i thought it was too either

about it and i thought it was too either it's kind of a crime i know you've got

it's kind of a crime i know you've got to keep the technology secret but you

to keep the technology secret but you can't not tell everybody that this stuff

can't not tell everybody that this stuff is going on that we have you know actual

is going on that we have you know actual hardware from another civilization it's

hardware from another civilization it's a big [ __ ] deal you know probably the

a big [ __ ] deal you know probably the biggest one there ever was

biggest one there ever was and um

and um george

george said you know today's the day we got to

said you know today's the day we got to put it on the news or something to that

put it on the news or something to that effect and when it came

effect and when it came right down to the time to air it i

right down to the time to air it i changed my mind and i said

changed my mind and i said we're not doing it

we're not doing it and that's what turned into the famous

and that's what turned into the famous wrestling match between me and george

wrestling match between me and george trying to get the tape but he won

trying to get the tape but he won because he was a bigger guy so he

because he was a bigger guy so he actually physically wrestled well i

actually physically wrestled well i think it was more of a pulling match we

think it was more of a pulling match we were i don't think we ever hit the

were i don't think we ever hit the ground but

ground but he got the tape he put it in the player

he got the tape he put it in the player and boom five o'clock news was on and

and boom five o'clock news was on and then um

then um i got a call after that and they said it

i got a call after that and they said it was from dennis he said you have any

was from dennis he said you have any idea what we're gonna do to you now and

idea what we're gonna do to you now and he hung up the phone that was the last

he hung up the phone that was the last communication i had with him

communication i had with him and what has happened to you since then

and what has happened to you since then after that

a lot of people i've known either were

either were audited by the irs people had anybody i

audited by the irs people had anybody i know that had clearances that worked in

know that had clearances that worked in secure programs had the clearances

secure programs had the clearances pulled one of them uh

pulled one of them uh friendly

friendly one of mine that jeremy knows he's going

one of mine that jeremy knows he's going on camera with me soon he'll tell the

on camera with me soon he'll tell the story now that he's out of work up there

story now that he's out of work up there he was working up at the tonopah test

he was working up at the tonopah test range waiting for his clearance to come

range waiting for his clearance to come through and you know they they pulled

through and you know they they pulled that it would it became it's like if

that it would it became it's like if they can't get the person that's

they can't get the person that's involved they just create a problem for

involved they just create a problem for everybody that surrounds them and so i

everybody that surrounds them and so i mean the way it turns out it hurt a lot

mean the way it turns out it hurt a lot of people's lives that i was connected

of people's lives that i was connected to

to and that's an effective way of shutting

and that's an effective way of shutting someone up did you feel that by coming

someone up did you feel that by coming forward and going public they couldn't

forward and going public they couldn't just snuff you out that was i mean

just snuff you out that was i mean that's what i was told and george and

that's what i was told and george and everybody you know said that you got oh

everybody you know said that you got oh it's you know it's public there's you

it's you know it's public there's you know no one will touch you and i i you

know no one will touch you and i i you know i i fell for it um

know i i fell for it um and i i wish you didn't yeah sometimes

and i i wish you didn't yeah sometimes sometimes when it's just over stress and

sometimes when it's just over stress and people are camping on your lawn yeah but

people are camping on your lawn yeah but it's this is gonna make things worse

it's this is gonna make things worse doing this no this is gonna make things

doing this no this is gonna make things better i was trying to tell them how is

better i was trying to tell them how is this gonna make things better because

this gonna make things better because you're getting a real chance to explain

you're getting a real chance to explain yourself in a way that's going to

yourself in a way that's going to make people who are not only work in the

make people who are not only work in the government people that are

government people that are police officers and firefighters and

police officers and firefighters and first responders and doctors and

first responders and doctors and scientists they're going to empathize

scientists they're going to empathize emphasize

emphasize empathize and and empathize with

what it must be like to be a person like you in your 20s who gets thrust into

you in your 20s who gets thrust into this world unknowingly

this world unknowingly and confronted with

and confronted with one of the most if not the most

one of the most if not the most important discovery in the history of

important discovery in the history of human beings the big question

human beings the big question are we alone it's the number one

are we alone it's the number one question there's two questions right

question there's two questions right what happens when we die and are we

what happens when we die and are we alone those are the two big questions

alone those are the two big questions right

right and if we're not alone and someone knows

and if we're not alone and someone knows we're not alone and these some people

we're not alone and these some people who know we're not alone are these

who know we're not alone are these bungling

bungling sort of even if they weren't it's a

sort of even if they weren't it's a crime that they're not telling the rest

crime that they're not telling the rest of us but i mean i don't mean bungling

of us but i mean i don't mean bungling in terms they're incompetent i mean they

in terms they're incompetent i mean they can't be competent it seems to me to

can't be competent it seems to me to what you're describing that no one can

what you're describing that no one can be competent with this technology

be competent with this technology like the victoria victorian era scholars

like the victoria victorian era scholars analyzing some sort of a nuclear reactor

analyzing some sort of a nuclear reactor there's there's no way why do you think

there's there's no way why do you think beyond that why do you think they're not

beyond that why do you think they're not telling us let's just make an assumption

telling us let's just make an assumption that this is true right now

that this is true right now why do you think that they're not

why do you think that they're not telling us that our government doesn't

telling us that our government doesn't tell us what's your best well let me put

tell us what's your best well let me put it into

it into what would you do if i'm the president

what would you do if i'm the president okay and i get this information what do

okay and i get this information what do i do with this what do i do with this

i do with this what do i do with this there's something that we don't know

there's something that we don't know there's something we don't understand

there's something we don't understand there's something that came from another

there's something that came from another world we got it tucked away in the

world we got it tucked away in the mountains and uh just wanted you guys to

mountains and uh just wanted you guys to know about it hey sleep tight hey

know about it hey sleep tight hey american motto's on tonight who do you

american motto's on tonight who do you think's going to win yeah who's going to

think's going to win yeah who's going to win america

one is uncertainty and the other one is what bob and i have talked about a lot

what bob and i have talked about a lot absolutely not knowing what to tell

absolutely not knowing what to tell people because you don't really

people because you don't really understand it yourself even though

understand it yourself even though you've got what do you say if you want

you've got what do you say if you want to run a government you want to get

to run a government you want to get people to pay their taxes but there's

people to pay their taxes but there's something else yeah

something else yeah what do you say so you have these

what do you say so you have these objects fine with impunity right and you

objects fine with impunity right and you that you have something else well not

that you have something else well not only that what can you say like how much

only that what can you say like how much do you really know i think it's mainly

do you really know i think it's mainly the technology yeah they just want to

the technology yeah they just want to keep the technology secret because if

keep the technology secret because if there's

there's yeah whoever gets this dude yeah

yeah whoever gets this dude yeah you you control the where you become you

you you control the where you become you literally become invincible once you

literally become invincible once you master the technology you can't you

master the technology you can't you cannot penetrate a field like that so

cannot penetrate a field like that so imagine that's i know it's all science

imagine that's i know it's all science fiction but science fiction turns into

fiction but science fiction turns into science fact if you have

science fact if you have real force fields around aircraft and

real force fields around aircraft and battleships

battleships you you win

you you win you win you can force your will upon

you win you can force your will upon anybody and uh

anybody and uh like i said there's so much more to the

like i said there's so much more to the story when i was first there

story when i was first there um

um there were russian scientists at s4 that

there were russian scientists at s4 that was this was early on in the project so

was this was early on in the project so this was before operation paper clip

this was before operation paper clip became public as well right so i would

became public as well right so i would imagine that was i don't know what the

imagine that was i don't know what the date yeah when was that when did was

date yeah when was that when did was that

that 98 i think 98 yeah yeah i don't know the

98 i think 98 yeah yeah i don't know the dates on it so it's roughly 10 years

dates on it so it's roughly 10 years later operation paperclip becomes

later operation paperclip becomes freedom of information actually it's

freedom of information actually it's about russia not germany he's not a

about russia not germany he's not a russian scientist yeah but i mean

russian scientist yeah but i mean russian scientists a lot of them came

russian scientists a lot of them came from germany a lot of those those rocket

from germany a lot of those those rocket scientists that work with nasa they all

scientists that work with nasa they all came from nazi scientists got it so some

came from nazi scientists got it so some russians got some of them i just know

russians got some of them i just know that and at some point there was intense

that and at some point there was intense cooperation with even exchanging some

cooperation with even exchanging some ideas on nuclear weapons and you know

ideas on nuclear weapons and you know emp tests and stuff things we would

emp tests and stuff things we would never have discussed with them but at

never have discussed with them but at the same time it was in the late 80s uh

the same time it was in the late 80s uh they were involved and actually in the

they were involved and actually in the area at s4 with us so you got to

area at s4 with us so you got to communicate with these guys or you saw

communicate with these guys or you saw them no i knew they were there barry

them no i knew they were there barry barry would talk about the commies that

barry would talk about the commies that were there the communities the commies

were there the communities the commies and um that was back when they were the

and um that was back when they were the commies

at some point it wasn't our group but at some point there was a big discovery

some point there was a big discovery made

made and this did not happen when i was there

and this did not happen when i was there it happened in between my trips to there

it happened in between my trips to there and after that apparently they decided

and after that apparently they decided it was just too cool to share with

it was just too cool to share with anybody and the russians were never

anybody and the russians were never allowed back on the base after that but

allowed back on the base after that but you don't know what that discovery was

you don't know what that discovery was no no like i said it wasn't my group so

no no like i said it wasn't my group so one of the other groups really found out

one of the other groups really found out something

something but the you know

but the you know in typical american fashion is all right

in typical american fashion is all right this is ours you guys get the hell out

this is ours you guys get the hell out of here was there any inkling that any

of here was there any inkling that any other government had something similar

other government had something similar no no nothing that i had heard see that

no no nothing that i had heard see that was the thing that always freaked me out

was the thing that always freaked me out was why if if something was so superior

was why if if something was so superior to human beings it's almost like

to human beings it's almost like visiting an ant colony like why would

visiting an ant colony like why would you go to the queen i don't give a [ __ ]

you go to the queen i don't give a [ __ ] who the queen is i'm a human i'm so

who the queen is i'm a human i'm so superior to ants i don't care who you

superior to ants i don't care who you have running your hive i'm just gonna

have running your hive i'm just gonna study it i think it's who got it who got

study it i think it's who got it who got it look at the

it look at the you know rocket technology in germany

you know rocket technology in germany but they got nine of them

but they got nine of them yeah that doesn't make sense to me

yeah that doesn't make sense to me either so they were either in the same

either so they were either in the same area

area or you know one had clues to where

or you know one had clues to where others were

others were i mean i don't know you you have to fill

i mean i don't know you you have to fill that in there but you're right i mean

that in there but you're right i mean nine of them that's a that's a a big dig

nine of them that's a that's a a big dig if it was archaeological well one of the

if it was archaeological well one of the more recent

more recent recent sightings and the these

recent sightings and the these discussions that have been coming out

discussions that have been coming out recently from air force pilots and navy

recently from air force pilots and navy pilots they've been talking about things

pilots they've been talking about things happening in the ocean

happening in the ocean and that that something

and that that something go literally goes into the water or

go literally goes into the water or something maybe below the surface

something maybe below the surface thinking about water 2004 tic tac nimitz

thinking about water 2004 tic tac nimitz case so that's when george knapp and i

case so that's when george knapp and i broke on the radio twice before the new

broke on the radio twice before the new york times so i know this one really

york times so i know this one really well commander fravor and those pilots

well commander fravor and those pilots there was

there was a disturbance on the surface of the

a disturbance on the surface of the water

water commander fravor visually saw what

commander fravor visually saw what looked like similar to across some

looked like similar to across some object so it's like as if you have some

object so it's like as if you have some like coral under the water and you've

like coral under the water and you've got it's breaking over right the tic tac

got it's breaking over right the tic tac is doing this crazy maneuver that defies

is doing this crazy maneuver that defies it's a gravity-propelled system they saw

it's a gravity-propelled system they saw it in the sky before they saw in the

it in the sky before they saw in the water right yeah so there was um there

water right yeah so there was um there were radar that was picking this these

were radar that was picking this these things coming down from 80 000 feet

things coming down from 80 000 feet dropping to 50 feet in less than a

dropping to 50 feet in less than a second this is it jamie what is this

second this is it jamie what is this this is actually on the news today there

this is actually on the news today there was a briefing so a lot of people get

was a briefing so a lot of people get this confused not this one then either

this confused not this one then either no so

no so that is called the gimbal so there's

that is called the gimbal so there's three videos released by the pentagon

three videos released by the pentagon that are all active play and keep the

that are all active play and keep the volume off

volume off i i would i would really just pay

i i would i would really just pay attention to the source video so you've

attention to the source video so you've got the tic tac which is this object the

got the tic tac which is this object the commander fravor saw another pilot

commander fravor saw another pilot filmed it with a flir pod and it goes

filmed it with a flir pod and it goes but this one you see is really important

but this one you see is really important to bob's story the gimbal craft it's

to bob's story the gimbal craft it's been recently analyzed it's fleer not

been recently analyzed it's fleer not only does it it's definitive that it's

only does it it's definitive that it's not a conventional anything by the by

not a conventional anything by the by its movements but there's a pocket of

its movements but there's a pocket of cold air

cold air around a propulsion source

around a propulsion source so this object by the way sat stationary

so this object by the way sat stationary for days if not weeks it sat stationary

for days if not weeks it sat stationary yeah they found it 11 hours later and

yeah they found it 11 hours later and they were saying there's no way this

they were saying there's no way this thing using that kind of energy to go

thing using that kind of energy to go that fast could just hover the amount of

that fast could just hover the amount of time and by the way you're seeing a very

time and by the way you're seeing a very small part of what happened that day

small part of what happened that day this object was not alone

this object was not alone and so hopefully that information comes

and so hopefully that information comes out and we can i mean i wish we had

out and we can i mean i wish we had video of it i'm sure we'd all want to

video of it i'm sure we'd all want to see it

see it but that's called the gimbal that was

but that's called the gimbal that was east coast

east coast right 2015.

right 2015. west coast 2004 was the tic tac

west coast 2004 was the tic tac the disturbance on the water commander

the disturbance on the water commander fraber believes there was something

fraber believes there was something under that water that was causing that

under that water that was causing that disturbance when the tic tac was coming

disturbance when the tic tac was coming around to doing it

around to doing it with inside the the people that are

with inside the the people that are studying this they're thinking maybe the

studying this they're thinking maybe the tic tac system was causing the

tic tac system was causing the disturbance

disturbance but the uso unidentified submerged

but the uso unidentified submerged object that he visually saw

object that he visually saw uh the whole interesting thing about

uh the whole interesting thing about that is i would love bob to describe it

that is i would love bob to describe it is why it doesn't matter if these craft

is why it doesn't matter if these craft are in

are in space

space air or water why doesn't it matter i

air or water why doesn't it matter i love when he talks about this [ __ ]

love when he talks about this [ __ ] well first of all commander fravor was

well first of all commander fravor was the f-18 pilot off the nimitz that was

the f-18 pilot off the nimitz that was sent out to find out what this stuff is

sent out to find out what this stuff is but and it wasn't just i got a chance to

but and it wasn't just i got a chance to talk to him recently and it wasn't just

talk to him recently and it wasn't just a radar image i mean commander fravor

a radar image i mean commander fravor had eyes on it for over five minutes

had eyes on it for over five minutes watching this thing as four other pilots

watching this thing as four other pilots did so this wasn't a radar blip or

did so this wasn't a radar blip or anything i mean these guys were watching

anything i mean these guys were watching this thing but

this thing but you know one of the things i think in

you know one of the things i think in the gimbal video

the gimbal video the way the craft that we worked on

the way the craft that we worked on flies

flies is it doesn't fly like

is it doesn't fly like a conventional aircraft does and it

a conventional aircraft does and it doesn't fly like a flying saucer with in

doesn't fly like a flying saucer with in a 1950s movie it flies belly first

a 1950s movie it flies belly first i mean it may set down conventionally

i mean it may set down conventionally but it always rotates it does a role

but it always rotates it does a role maneuver puts its belly towards the

maneuver puts its belly towards the target and then moves away so it's like

target and then moves away so it's like a car flying with the wheels forward

a car flying with the wheels forward right

right right

right i mean it may lift land on the wheels

i mean it may lift land on the wheels but at some point when it wants to leave

but at some point when it wants to leave flips flips up points the wheels where

flips flips up points the wheels where it wants to go and takes off and the

it wants to go and takes off and the gimbal video you can see the craft do

gimbal video you can see the craft do the roll maneuver and uh

the roll maneuver and uh it's really interesting it behaves

it's really interesting it behaves exactly like the crafts that i worked on

exactly like the crafts that i worked on so

so much like we have different shaped

much like we have different shaped aircrafts and fighter jets and cars they

aircrafts and fighter jets and cars they probably have different shapes of these

probably have different shapes of these objects that operate under similar

objects that operate under similar principles

principles right but they all have the same power

right but they all have the same power source they all have the same power

source they all have the same power source and we're also dealing with

source and we're also dealing with if you think about

if you think about the laws of technological progression

the laws of technological progression you know you think of moore's law and

you know you think of moore's law and you think of how things accelerate

you think of how things accelerate you've got to think that if this

you've got to think that if this civilization is who knows how many years

civilization is who knows how many years more advanced than we are

more advanced than we are if not even years i mean i mean we're

if not even years i mean i mean we're thinking about in terms of conventional

thinking about in terms of conventional terms right the way the way we look at

terms right the way the way we look at the world i mean they meet they might be

the world i mean they meet they might be just

just superior in terms of their intellect

superior in terms of their intellect they've got to be maybe maybe we don't

they've got to be maybe maybe we don't know right well the only reason i

know right well the only reason i i say that is because

i say that is because look everyone doesn't necessarily start

look everyone doesn't necessarily start at a steam engine right and go to an

at a steam engine right and go to an internal combustion engine and then you

internal combustion engine and then you know electric power nuclear power and go

know electric power nuclear power and go up the ladder that we right come on um

up the ladder that we right come on um you know the binary if the stuff is true

you know the binary if the stuff is true about the origin and the binary star

about the origin and the binary star system and they have heavier elements

system and they have heavier elements that we don't have and this element

that we don't have and this element stable element 115 is a naturally

stable element 115 is a naturally occurring material

occurring material maybe that's the first thing they

maybe that's the first thing they started experimenting with and the

started experimenting with and the version of their steam engine their

version of their steam engine their first product was something that

first product was something that operated like this and actually when

operated like this and actually when they came to earth to look around or you

they came to earth to look around or you know whatever they were amazed at the

know whatever they were amazed at the stuff we were doing these guys burned

stuff we were doing these guys burned stuff and squirted out the back to go

stuff and squirted out the back to go forward so right um right you know who

forward so right um right you know who says they follow any kind of normal

says they follow any kind of normal progression like that my my thought was

progression like that my my thought was if you went back to the 1400s and then

if you went back to the 1400s and then you went from 1400 to 1500 you're not

you went from 1400 to 1500 you're not going to see that much of a difference

going to see that much of a difference technologically right if you go from

technologically right if you go from 2000 to 3000 i assume there's going to

2000 to 3000 i assume there's going to be a radical change right well the yeah

be a radical change right well the yeah the delta the rate of change is is

the delta the rate of change is is magnificently higher than it used to be

magnificently higher than it used to be right so if you think about what they

right so if you think about what they had in 1988 and you think about what

had in 1988 and you think about what they probably have in 2019

they probably have in 2019 just

just logically seems like they would advance

logically seems like they would advance i would think so

i would think so the only

the only question is like

question is like are they living

are they living is that a living thing in terms of like

is that a living thing in terms of like a biological thing

a biological thing or are they some sort of an artificially

or are they some sort of an artificially created creation like we are working on

created creation like we are working on right now i mean we're in the middle of

right now i mean we're in the middle of working on artificial reality artificial

working on artificial reality artificial beings sentient beings artificial

beings sentient beings artificial intelligence there's cons silicon based

intelligence there's cons silicon based life forms that they're essentially

life forms that they're essentially trying to create boston dynamic or was

trying to create boston dynamic or was it boston dynamics of the company

it boston dynamics of the company robots yeah you can make machines out of

robots yeah you can make machines out of flesh right so a cyborg or cybernetic

flesh right so a cyborg or cybernetic organism is just that you know that's

organism is just that you know that's what a lot of people think those like

what a lot of people think those like gray things are you know that people

gray things are you know that people call the grays yeah it's like they were

call the grays yeah it's like they were like they're machines printed from flash

like they're machines printed from flash so what you're saying is like well they

so what you're saying is like well they could just be no synthetic

could just be no synthetic they don't even need to be you know

they don't even need to be you know machines well they seem to have no sex

machines well they seem to have no sex organs the way they're described by

organs the way they're described by people that have had interactions with

people that have had interactions with them assuming these people aren't liars

them assuming these people aren't liars right or crazy or whatever right that

right or crazy or whatever right that they have no sex organs and that they

they have no sex organs and that they don't seem to have any muscle that is

don't seem to have any muscle that is almost like a frame right and they have

almost like a frame right and they have enormous heads i mean if you look at

enormous heads i mean if you look at australopithecus or depictions of you

australopithecus or depictions of you know ancient hominids and then you go to

know ancient hominids and then you go to human beings one of the things you see

human beings one of the things you see is bigger heads and weaker bodies well

is bigger heads and weaker bodies well you see a clear progression of evolution

you see a clear progression of evolution too where for something like that i

too where for something like that i would lean towards a synthetic organism

would lean towards a synthetic organism because it looks like it was made for a

because it looks like it was made for a specific task there was no reproductive

specific task there was no reproductive organs so i mean that almost kind of

organs so i mean that almost kind of leaves out any kind of you know physical

leaves out any kind of you know physical evolution right well that's also our

evolution right well that's also our bottleneck right our bottleneck is our

bottleneck right our bottleneck is our biological imperative the the need to

biological imperative the the need to breed emotions fear anxiety all these

breed emotions fear anxiety all these different things that exist in order to

different things that exist in order to force us into making sure we reproduce i

force us into making sure we reproduce i mean that's essentially there's human

mean that's essentially there's human reward systems that aren't necessary

reward systems that aren't necessary once they can figure out a way to make

once they can figure out a way to make some sort of sentient artificial life

some sort of sentient artificial life some sort of thing that doesn't have

some sort of thing that doesn't have these biological limitations that we

these biological limitations that we have by the way these craft all these

have by the way these craft all these different kinds have been reported

different kinds have been reported because it was confusing i always

because it was confusing i always thought of flying saucers what i heard

thought of flying saucers what i heard bob lazar talk about flying saucer right

bob lazar talk about flying saucer right but if you look back in history people

but if you look back in history people have always reported the weirdest shapes

have always reported the weirdest shapes like none of them are alike you know

like none of them are alike you know there are the saucers but you got cigar

there are the saucers but you got cigar shaped you got you know the top hat

shaped you got you know the top hat shape you have orbs why maybe they're

shape you have orbs why maybe they're serving different purposes they're doing

serving different purposes they're doing different things like we'd use different

different things like we'd use different tools and i want to be clear the reason

tools and i want to be clear the reason i know that memo is real is because i

i know that memo is real is because i spent a lot of time with dr edgar

spent a lot of time with dr edgar mitchell six man to walk on the moon

mitchell six man to walk on the moon last guy to film him before he died

last guy to film him before he died right

right that's how i know i don't want any

that's how i know i don't want any journalists thinking i got it from

journalists thinking i got it from anywhere else i know because of dr

anywhere else i know because of dr mitchell and he said the same thing

mitchell and he said the same thing maybe these things are

maybe these things are performing different tasks you know and

performing different tasks you know and that's what i seem if you if you think

that's what i seem if you if you think about what an alien is in terms of our

about what an alien is in terms of our our

our the sort of iconic image of an alien

the sort of iconic image of an alien like the steven spielberg closing cows

like the steven spielberg closing cows are the third time the third kind alien

are the third time the third kind alien they seem like

they seem like what we'd assume a human being would

what we'd assume a human being would eventually become right

eventually become right and if these things are tiny human

and if these things are tiny human beings are smaller than they've ever

beings are smaller than they've ever been before they're weaker than they've

been before they're weaker than they've ever been before and there seems to be a

ever been before and there seems to be a trend in that direction and this trend

trend in that direction and this trend seems to be amplified by our

seems to be amplified by our technological progression

technological progression there our

there our lack of need for muscle strength and our

lack of need for muscle strength and our lack of need for violence and we're

lack of need for violence and we're moving in a society to try to get away

moving in a society to try to get away from all the things that we think are

from all the things that we think are abhorrent about human beings and the

abhorrent about human beings and the terrible behaviors that we have if we

terrible behaviors that we have if we one day do give birth to some sort of an

one day do give birth to some sort of an artificial being like marshall mcluhan's

artificial being like marshall mcluhan's uh

uh quote we are the sex organs of the

quote we are the sex organs of the machine world

machine world you know that one day okay i'll buy this

you know that one day okay i'll buy this yeah mcloone was brilliant and that that

yeah mcloone was brilliant and that that quote has always been one of my

quote has always been one of my favorites because okay what are we doing

favorites because okay what are we doing when we're constantly technologically

when we're constantly technologically innovating we're constantly looking for

innovating we're constantly looking for faster cars better computers bigger

faster cars better computers bigger screens faster more resolution more

screens faster more resolution more pixels more this more that higher

pixels more this more that higher bandwidth 5g 10g right what are we doing

bandwidth 5g 10g right what are we doing we're moving into this in this if you

we're moving into this in this if you just follow it objectively stay stand

just follow it objectively stay stand back don't attach yourself or your

back don't attach yourself or your civilization your culture to it and look

civilization your culture to it and look at what it is we're moving

at what it is we're moving a hundred percent towards technological

a hundred percent towards technological innovation if you looked at this species

innovation if you looked at this species from afar and if you weren't a part of

from afar and if you weren't a part of it you would say what does this species

it you would say what does this species do oh they make things they make things

do oh they make things they make things better every year beehives are the same

better every year beehives are the same [ __ ] thing that you see 10 years ago

[ __ ] thing that you see 10 years ago you go by you see a beehive it's amazing

you go by you see a beehive it's amazing it's cool but they're the same [ __ ]

it's cool but they're the same [ __ ] thing they figured out how to do it they

thing they figured out how to do it they make a beehive right we don't do that we

make a beehive right we don't do that we make better things what would you

make better things what would you constantly and at some point i think

constantly and at some point i think that technology is going to fuse with us

that technology is going to fuse with us yes and we're going to become it's

yes and we're going to become it's already happening yeah elon musk talked

already happening yeah elon musk talked about it on my podcast that we are

about it on my podcast that we are cyborgs you just carry it in your pocket

cyborgs you just carry it in your pocket it's a phone it answers any question you

it's a phone it answers any question you want you can talk to it it'll give you

want you can talk to it it'll give you the answers the answers instantaneously

the answers the answers instantaneously it navigates you it has all your phone

it navigates you it has all your phone numbers and it has all your contacts you

numbers and it has all your contacts you can get a hold of people people

can get a hold of people people listening to you through it it's

listening to you through it it's connecting us in ways even involuntarily

connecting us in ways even involuntarily haptics that kind of thing yeah it's

haptics that kind of thing yeah it's also getting on your wrist how many

also getting on your wrist how many people have eye watches apple watches

people have eye watches apple watches right and that's only because we can't

right and that's only because we can't integrate them yet but you know that

integrate them yet but you know that point is 100

point is 100 yeah i didn't joke about it last night

yeah i didn't joke about it last night but i have a bit about it that i do

but i have a bit about it that i do about the the integration between humans

about the the integration between humans and technology that's what would you do

and technology that's what would you do if you were a hyper intelligence right

if you were a hyper intelligence right would you do the work yourself or would

would you do the work yourself or would you create some cool things called like

you create some cool things called like humans to do it for you would you create

humans to do it for you would you create things that are cybernetic organisms to

things that are cybernetic organisms to come in with machines and do it for you

come in with machines and do it for you if you're a hyper intelligence that has

if you're a hyper intelligence that has kind of changed like you've described

kind of changed like you've described you'd probably create workers right well

you'd probably create workers right well that's a vast conspiracy theory i'm not

that's a vast conspiracy theory i'm not talking about conspiracy but it is a

talking about conspiracy but it is a kind of a conspiracy i'm asking you well

kind of a conspiracy i'm asking you well i mean i don't think it's necessarily

i mean i don't think it's necessarily that i mean you could look at it that

that i mean you could look at it that way but that is the way a conspiracy

way but that is the way a conspiracy theorist would look at it the way i

theorist would look at it the way i would look at it is like there's

would look at it is like there's obviously a progression going on a

obviously a progression going on a biological progression there's some sort

biological progression there's some sort of an integration with technology

of an integration with technology there's some sort of imperative this

there's some sort of imperative this need for technological innovation it's

need for technological innovation it's inescapable everyone has it we and i

inescapable everyone has it we and i think it's attached to materialism in

think it's attached to materialism in some sort of a strange way because so

some sort of a strange way because so many people work so hard to get new

many people work so hard to get new things and like god that seems so

things and like god that seems so illogical and preposterous and it makes

illogical and preposterous and it makes people unhappy and depression's on the

people unhappy and depression's on the rise but nobody seems to be able to stop

rise but nobody seems to be able to stop it like why is that well maybe it's

it like why is that well maybe it's because we are the

because we are the caterpillars that give birth to the

caterpillars that give birth to the butterfly maybe that's what we're doing

butterfly maybe that's what we're doing very well what our job is to do is to

very well what our job is to do is to make some sort of a cocoon and we don't

make some sort of a cocoon and we don't even know we're doing it while we're

even know we're doing it while we're doing it do you think a caterpillar is

doing it do you think a caterpillar is well hey caterpillar what are you doing

well hey caterpillar what are you doing man just i'm doing my thing it's my job

man just i'm doing my thing it's my job i have to make a cocoon then become like

i have to make a cocoon then become like a body this could be a natural part of

a body this could be a natural part of evolution it could be that we're just

evolution it could be that we're just supposed to do this exactly and make the

supposed to do this exactly and make the jump to

jump to some sort of mechanized right

some sort of mechanized right yeah non-biological an orangutan that is

yeah non-biological an orangutan that is uh fishing with a spear

uh fishing with a spear no they they've figured out how to fish

no they they've figured out how to fish with spears there's

with spears there's uh there's um

uh there's um primatologists

primatologists without somebody showing them how to

without somebody showing them how to fish no they've imitated human beings

fish no they've imitated human beings doing it and now they do it but they do

doing it and now they do it but they do it independently they're not trained

it independently they're not trained orangutans they're wild around look at

orangutans they're wild around look at that

that there's a wild rice okay that's

there's a wild rice okay that's impressive very impressive well there's

impressive very impressive well there's these primatologists i guess you would

these primatologists i guess you would call them primatologists that's a term

call them primatologists that's a term that's a great biologist biologists that

that's a great biologist biologists that believe that

believe that monkeys and chimps

monkeys and chimps and some of the great apes are moving

and some of the great apes are moving into the stone age that they've

into the stone age that they've currently entered the stone age like

currently entered the stone age like they're not staying what they were a

they're not staying what they were a hundred thousand years ago or five

hundred thousand years ago or five hundred thousand years ago but they're

hundred thousand years ago but they're actively using tools and they're

actively using tools and they're experimenting with different different

experimenting with different different ways to use those tools and then they're

ways to use those tools and then they're making tools out of stone they're making

making tools out of stone they're making tools out of sticks and they're they're

tools out of sticks and they're they're using them

using them well this might just be what happens

well this might just be what happens this might just be what happens

this might just be what happens i mean why else why would why the [ __ ]

i mean why else why would why the [ __ ] we work so hard i mean i i was i was

we work so hard i mean i i was i was driving to la this morning um i had a

driving to la this morning um i had a doctor's appointment so i was on the 405

doctor's appointment so i was on the 405 at uh eight in the morning like jesus

at uh eight in the morning like jesus christ like this is so crazy when you're

christ like this is so crazy when you're in the 405 in l.a at eight o'clock in

in the 405 in l.a at eight o'clock in the morning you see literally a million

the morning you see literally a million cars

cars and this is everywhere you go as people

and this is everywhere you go as people but and also i'm in a tesla so i have it

but and also i'm in a tesla so i have it on autopilot so i'm there sitting i'm

on autopilot so i'm there sitting i'm listening to a podcast i barely have my

listening to a podcast i barely have my hand on the wheel i'm not touching [ __ ]

hand on the wheel i'm not touching [ __ ] this car's driving me along i'm not even

this car's driving me along i'm not even doing anything i'm just i'm just hanging

doing anything i'm just i'm just hanging out it's so much less stressful by the

out it's so much less stressful by the way to do that that way right so it

way to do that that way right so it encourages you to innovate it encourages

encourages you to innovate it encourages you to embrace this new technology i got

you to embrace this new technology i got this giant screen it's showing me the

this giant screen it's showing me the navigation in front of me i'll be there

navigation in front of me i'll be there five minutes early excellent and i'm

five minutes early excellent and i'm listening to a podcast wirelessly it's

listening to a podcast wirelessly it's bluetooth screen streaming from my phone

bluetooth screen streaming from my phone and i pulled that podcast which came out

and i pulled that podcast which came out today out of the [ __ ] sky and i'm

today out of the [ __ ] sky and i'm listening to it and i'm all comfortable

listening to it and i'm all comfortable in my nice little car just driving on my

in my nice little car just driving on my way to the doctor's office this is

way to the doctor's office this is irresistible stuff yeah yeah different

irresistible stuff yeah yeah different than your walkman yeah you know that can

than your walkman yeah you know that can be irresistible

be irresistible it is a resistance it's frighteningly

it is a resistance it's frighteningly irresistible but is it frightening i

irresistible but is it frightening i mean if you were a monkey right if you

mean if you were a monkey right if you were um an australiopithecus would you

were um an australiopithecus would you go man i don't want to [ __ ] be a

go man i don't want to [ __ ] be a person i live in a house that's [ __ ]

person i live in a house that's [ __ ] i like just swinging around on trees i

i like just swinging around on trees i like uh running from jaguars this is

like uh running from jaguars this is life guys life is running from

life guys life is running from crocodiles it's not living in a [ __ ]

crocodiles it's not living in a [ __ ] suburban there's probably some that are

suburban there's probably some that are like that yeah i don't think so i think

like that yeah i don't think so i think i think

i think when it comes we're going to embrace it

when it comes we're going to embrace it we're going to embrace it the same way

we're going to embrace it the same way you embrace cell phones the same way

you embrace cell phones the same way embrace television there's going to be a

embrace television there's going to be a few holdouts i don't even have an email

few holdouts i don't even have an email address man those are those there's a

address man those are those there's a few and far between the good luck with

few and far between the good luck with that [ __ ] face go move to the woods ted

that [ __ ] face go move to the woods ted kaczynski yeah i was just going to throw

kaczynski yeah i was just going to throw ted's against

ted's against ted kaczynski was right this is

ted kaczynski was right this is something that i think about sometimes

something that i think about sometimes when i get really high that ted

when i get really high that ted kaczynski was a part of the harvard lsd

kaczynski was a part of the harvard lsd studies this has been proven ted

studies this has been proven ted kaczynski they cooked his [ __ ] brain

kaczynski they cooked his [ __ ] brain when he was at harvard and then when he

when he was at harvard and then when he went over to berkeley and became a

went over to berkeley and became a professor his goal was to make enough

professor his goal was to make enough money so that he could

money so that he could implement this program and live in the

implement this program and live in the woods and then write his manifesto and

woods and then write his manifesto and start killing people that were involved

start killing people that were involved in propagating technology he was

in propagating technology he was expunged from the harvard uh logs by the

expunged from the harvard uh logs by the way this is something my friend just

way this is something my friend just called me about so there's like this uh

called me about so there's like this uh private library and they used to print

private library and they used to print people's names whenever they were part

people's names whenever they were part of a university and he was one of a

of a university and he was one of a handful of people that were expunged

handful of people that were expunged from it i want to jump back to the one

from it i want to jump back to the one thing joe

thing joe i want to be very careful with that word

i want to be very careful with that word conspiracy theorist

conspiracy theorist what i was what i was saying to you was

what i was what i was saying to you was we we terraform our earth right

we we terraform our earth right we terraform we change the environment

we terraform we change the environment we do all this innovation

we do all this innovation what is stopping us from thinking that

what is stopping us from thinking that that's not being done i'm not saying it

that's not being done i'm not saying it is i'm saying what's stopping us from

is i'm saying what's stopping us from thinking that that's being done on a

thinking that that's being done on a much bigger level on a cosmic level you

much bigger level on a cosmic level you mean like aliens coming down doing that

mean like aliens coming down doing that to humans i'm telling you that there is

to humans i'm telling you that there is something here that's there's a fact you

something here that's there's a fact you know there's something there a craft

know there's something there a craft they're here they're not ours they're

they're here they're not ours they're here so the question is

here so the question is what is that about and i'm just looking

what is that about and i'm just looking at what we do with what you're

at what we do with what you're describing with technology

describing with technology i think it's much more likely that the

i think it's much more likely that the same way we observe chimps and we

same way we observe chimps and we observed that they are now in the stone

observed that they are now in the stone age that they're observing us and that

age that they're observing us and that they're recognizing that there is a

they're recognizing that there is a pattern that there is uh there's steps

pattern that there is uh there's steps that happen i mean carl sagan talked

that happen i mean carl sagan talked about the different levels of

about the different levels of civilization and that you know if we

civilization and that you know if we don't get past certain levels we're

don't get past certain levels we're never going to reach this i mean we're

never going to reach this i mean we're in type 1 civilization we're going to

in type 1 civilization we're going to stay at type zero well we're in this

stay at type zero well we're in this warring

warring polluting yeah pillaging we're awesome

polluting yeah pillaging we're awesome civilizations

civilizations are awesome it's like well we're awesome

are awesome it's like well we're awesome in a lot of ways you know but in that

in a lot of ways you know but in that way we're not well yeah we're we're

way we're not well yeah we're we're children that have immense power that we

children that have immense power that we didn't really the other thing is you're

didn't really the other thing is you're using the immense power that other

using the immense power that other people have created right i mean even

people have created right i mean even when you're driving a car you're

when you're driving a car you're stomping on the gas like whew you didn't

stomping on the gas like whew you didn't invent the [ __ ] engine you didn't

invent the [ __ ] engine you didn't invent tires there's all these things

invent tires there's all these things that were in involved in the creation of

that were in involved in the creation of this thing that is

this thing that is really outside of your

really outside of your [Music]

[Music] grasp of understanding but yet you have

grasp of understanding but yet you have the ability to use it like a person with

the ability to use it like a person with a gun i'm just gonna bang bang bang

a gun i'm just gonna bang bang bang people you don't you didn't invent a gun

people you don't you didn't invent a gun so like you've you've without the

so like you've you've without the intellect to craft and engineer and and

intellect to craft and engineer and and and manifest these creations you just

and manifest these creations you just have access to them because you have

have access to them because you have paper or you have bitcoin or you have

paper or you have bitcoin or you have whatever the [ __ ] you're using using a

whatever the [ __ ] you're using using a credit card now you have

credit card now you have almost no responsibility you just you

almost no responsibility you just you could just flippantly use these things

could just flippantly use these things which is why

which is why we uh

we uh you know we're very childlike in our

you know we're very childlike in our actions because we haven't had to earn

actions because we haven't had to earn the responsibility we haven't had to

the responsibility we haven't had to earn these things that we've been able

earn these things that we've been able to have and you've only been able to

to have and you've only been able to have them because other people have

have them because other people have innovated and spent

innovated and spent ungodly amounts of time and effort and

ungodly amounts of time and effort and focus in the lab to create these things

focus in the lab to create these things and then they've all put them together

and then they've all put them together and then what is the what's the reason

and then what is the what's the reason to put them together to profit well

to put them together to profit well what's the reason of prop well why are

what's the reason of prop well why are you doing this so you can buy more

you doing this so you can buy more things what are we doing what are we

things what are we doing what are we doing we're making better things that's

doing we're making better things that's what we do that's all that's all we do

what we do that's all that's all we do is make better things yeah why the [ __ ]

is make better things yeah why the [ __ ] do we need oil why do we need oil why

do we need oil why do we need oil why can't we just burn wood and stay home

can't we just burn wood and stay home why can't we grow chickens and food in

why can't we grow chickens and food in the backyard why can't we do well we

the backyard why can't we do well we [ __ ] can we certainly can people do

[ __ ] can we certainly can people do do it but we decide to make that almost

do it but we decide to make that almost impossible our preferred way of living

impossible our preferred way of living is to stuff everyone into a very small

is to stuff everyone into a very small area where no one grows anything other

area where no one grows anything other than weed

than weed this is what la is la is 20 million

this is what la is la is 20 million people with hard surfaces as many hard

people with hard surfaces as many hard surfaces as you can boy if you've got an

surfaces as you can boy if you've got an acre backyard in l.a holy [ __ ] look at

acre backyard in l.a holy [ __ ] look at all that green this is amazing well no

all that green this is amazing well no that's the [ __ ] earth coming through

that's the [ __ ] earth coming through this weird sort of creation that we've

this weird sort of creation that we've put on top of the earth but the goal is

put on top of the earth but the goal is that like new york city that's there's

that like new york city that's there's none of it right you just got you've got

none of it right you just got you've got central park and they just got human

central park and they just got human [ __ ] you stacked up no one's growing

[ __ ] you stacked up no one's growing anything and then constant work

anything and then constant work everyone's up early go go go

everyone's up early go go go innovate progress make that money so you

innovate progress make that money so you can buy more things and every year hey

can buy more things and every year hey apple where's this [ __ ] new phone as

apple where's this [ __ ] new phone as if your phone isn't good enough yeah

if your phone isn't good enough yeah like your phone's taking pictures and

like your phone's taking pictures and videos and people are calling you and

videos and people are calling you and you got applications to tell you which

you got applications to tell you which way the wind's blowing it's not good

way the wind's blowing it's not good enough a blink of an eye blink of an eye

enough a blink of an eye blink of an eye it's all gone though that you know like

it's all gone though that you know like 10 000 years and the hoover dam goes or

10 000 years and the hoover dam goes or whatever you know mount rushmore

whatever you know mount rushmore disintegrates so it's amazing because we

disintegrates so it's amazing because we have created that and and everything's

have created that and and everything's trying to spring up through that we keep

trying to spring up through that we keep it maintenance down but we're we're a

it maintenance down but we're we're a blink man something hits

blink man something hits but we don't think that way well you

but we don't think that way well you know you think in terms of your own life

know you think in terms of your own life right you think in terms of what you

right you think in terms of what you want and what you need right now

want and what you need right now you know what it's we are in many ways

you know what it's we are in many ways this combination of this weird primitive

this combination of this weird primitive ape-like thing

ape-like thing with

with the ability to calculate and manipulate

the ability to calculate and manipulate our world and our environment that makes

our world and our environment that makes us wholly unique on top of that with

us wholly unique on top of that with existential angst and and fear so what

existential angst and and fear so what do you do with that we [ __ ] water it

do you do with that we [ __ ] water it down with the anti-depressants give

down with the anti-depressants give these [ __ ] people some [ __ ] that

these [ __ ] people some [ __ ] that keeps them moving

keeps them moving they're worried about the future they're

they're worried about the future they're trying to figure out what reality is if

trying to figure out what reality is if this you're on a goddamn convertible

this you're on a goddamn convertible spaceship spinning a thousand miles an

spaceship spinning a thousand miles an hour hurling through infinity there's no

hour hurling through infinity there's no meaning to this thing just keep making

meaning to this thing just keep making [ __ ] keep making stuff and then one day

[ __ ] keep making stuff and then one day they're going to be able to hit that

they're going to be able to hit that switch and this life will be born out of

switch and this life will be born out of innovation and thinking and progress and

innovation and thinking and progress and technology and more than likely it's

technology and more than likely it's probably going to be what we're seeing

probably going to be what we're seeing that these things are that you're you're

that these things are that you're you're observing

observing i'm not observing them but yeah

i'm not observing them but yeah someone's obviously

someone's obviously are you implying that they're us

are you implying that they're us i don't think they are us but i think

i don't think they are us but i think they are what happens when things keep

they are what happens when things keep going

going it's not us just like we're not monkeys

it's not us just like we're not monkeys right i'm not a chimp

right i'm not a chimp oh that'd be cool

oh that'd be cool they're from here is your idea no no no

they're from here is your idea no no no that this is what happens all over the

that this is what happens all over the universe right yeah this is what

universe right yeah this is what happened look here's the thing you know

happened look here's the thing you know i went to see brian cox's um

i went to see brian cox's um he has this amazing live show with robin

he has this amazing live show with robin ins where they

ins where they they have these led screens these huge

they have these led screens these huge screens with high resolution depictions

screens with high resolution depictions of the cosmos and one of the most

of the cosmos and one of the most mind-blowing things

mind-blowing things was he has this large-scale image of the

was he has this large-scale image of the universe and it shows all the individual

universe and it shows all the individual galaxies of the universe and it just

galaxies of the universe and it just keeps moving through all these galaxies

keeps moving through all these galaxies in three dimensions

in three dimensions and it's [ __ ] incredible but what's

and it's [ __ ] incredible but what's stunning is the relative uniformity of

stunning is the relative uniformity of it even at you know i mean you're

it even at you know i mean you're obviously looking at

obviously looking at an incredibly small depiction of

an incredibly small depiction of something that's immensely large like a

something that's immensely large like a galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars

galaxy of hundreds of billions of stars you're seeing it as this little dot but

you're seeing it as this little dot but this little dot that's flying through

this little dot that's flying through space surrounded by other little darts

space surrounded by other little darts with very similarly spaced distances

with very similarly spaced distances yeah

yeah yeah so mike if we see uniformity in

yeah so mike if we see uniformity in that form in terms of like the distance

that form in terms of like the distance between galaxy so many galaxies is so

between galaxy so many galaxies is so it's so similar they might vary slightly

it's so similar they might vary slightly and that slightly might be hundreds of

and that slightly might be hundreds of millions of light years right but but

millions of light years right but but but there's so much uniformity why would

but there's so much uniformity why would we not assume that that uniformity

we not assume that that uniformity exists pretty much everywhere and that

exists pretty much everywhere and that all these things that you're seeing that

all these things that you're seeing that are so similar you do see binary star

are so similar you do see binary star systems you do see single star systems

systems you do see single star systems like star but there's also some some

like star but there's also some some speculation that earth and that our

speculation that earth and that our solar system is one time was a binary

solar system is one time was a binary star system right i mean that's one of

star system right i mean that's one of the the speculations about that that

the the speculations about that that object that they find outside the kuiper

object that they find outside the kuiper belt that they think is 10 times larger

belt that they think is 10 times larger than earth they think it might have been

than earth they think it might have been at one point in time a star but this

at one point in time a star but this this uniformity that you see why

this uniformity that you see why wouldn't we think that that

wouldn't we think that that that has its same implications

that has its same implications biologically that there's some sort of a

biologically that there's some sort of a biological uniformity and that this

biological uniformity and that this happens

happens given the right sets of circumstances

given the right sets of circumstances you should tell them some of the stuff

you should tell them some of the stuff that you read that you don't know is

that you read that you don't know is true i mean if the the stuff was true

true i mean if the the stuff was true about the

about the propulsion stuff i mean anyway he well

propulsion stuff i mean anyway he well what have you read

what have you read what you saw too and you know what are

what you saw too and you know what are you talking about

you talking about spill the beans bob

spill the beans bob i gotta poke the bear here let's get

i gotta poke the bear here let's get some more liquor in you

some more liquor in you the um

the um well i mean

well i mean the again the the only thing i could

the again the the only thing i could verify was what i had my hands on um

verify was what i had my hands on um they were

they were you know there was talk of weapon

you know there was talk of weapon systems that there were different

systems that there were different projects project galileo project

projects project galileo project sidekick was supposed to be weapon

sidekick was supposed to be weapon applications of the craft

applications of the craft project looking glass had to do with

project looking glass had to do with time any effects of time in the craft

time any effects of time in the craft now i don't think we're not

now i don't think we're not talking about making a time machine like

talking about making a time machine like in science fiction but we're talking

in science fiction but we're talking about you know small distortions

about you know small distortions intentional distortions of time and how

intentional distortions of time and how that can be

that can be used

used you know as a uh not as a well it was

you know as a uh not as a well it was part of a weapon program how are you

part of a weapon program how are you informed in this these again where

informed in this these again where there's just those small briefings that

there's just those small briefings that i read but

i read but again i don't really like to talk about

again i don't really like to talk about those because i don't have any

those because i don't have any information on them and it was just you

information on them and it was just you know small briefings but he told

know small briefings but he told commander fravor that what he saw might

commander fravor that what he saw might have been a time dilation

have been a time dilation well it could be because gravity affects

well it could be because gravity affects time you know space time i'm sure you've

time you know space time i'm sure you've heard of that and um

heard of that and um you know what what commander fraber saw

you know what what commander fraber saw as he was in the f-18 approaching it he

as he was in the f-18 approaching it he said that he described it as a

said that he described it as a ping-pong ball in a cup and shaking it

ping-pong ball in a cup and shaking it back and forth it was moving that fast

back and forth it was moving that fast now obviously if there's anything inside

now obviously if there's anything inside there

there it it's going to be battered to hell but

it it's going to be battered to hell but you know my point was was that well one

you know my point was was that well one of two things

of two things either there's a gravitational envelope

either there's a gravitational envelope in there which negates any inertia

in there which negates any inertia effects

effects or

or you are seeing through a gravity

you are seeing through a gravity distortion field

distortion field so you know just like you're looking at

so you know just like you're looking at a

a a hot highway and you see

a hot highway and you see you know an optical distortion going

you know an optical distortion going through there well the same thing

through there well the same thing happens in gravity and the craft may not

happens in gravity and the craft may not actually be moving like that it may just

actually be moving like that it may just look like it because you're seeing you

look like it because you're seeing you can only see it through the field so it

can only see it through the field so it may be making much more gentle moves i'm

may be making much more gentle moves i'm not saying that's it but it has to be

not saying that's it but it has to be one of the two

one of the two and the thing shows up 60 miles away

and the thing shows up 60 miles away they noticed it on radar 60 seconds

they noticed it on radar 60 seconds after left commander favor but it was at

after left commander favor but it was at his cap point which is the next point he

his cap point which is the next point he was destined to go to

was destined to go to 60 miles away and in 60 seconds on radar

60 miles away and in 60 seconds on radar the same object ends up there so it's

the same object ends up there so it's going a mile a second no

going a mile a second no they i think the radar just picked it up

they i think the radar just picked it up in 60 seconds

in 60 seconds yeah it could have been there instantly

yeah it could have been there instantly but yeah we don't know the cycle time

but yeah we don't know the cycle time nobody knows that that's whole thing oh

nobody knows that that's whole thing oh so it cycles like radar cycles yeah it

so it cycles like radar cycles yeah it doesn't it doesn't sweep but i mean it

doesn't it doesn't sweep but i mean it scans yeah it's a planar array so it

scans yeah it's a planar array so it just

just you know

you know scans around it at random places that's

scans around it at random places that's a spy one does the really cool yeah it

a spy one does the really cool yeah it doesn't do the whole loop anymore right

doesn't do the whole loop anymore right the point uh the point is though that

the point uh the point is though that the craft moved to his next location

the craft moved to his next location before he knew where his next location

before he knew where his next location was gonna be jesus and

was gonna be jesus and that's

that's i mean that's well documented

i mean that's well documented so that's uh that's a pretty shocking

so that's uh that's a pretty shocking piece of information what's fascinating

piece of information what's fascinating to me too is that you were discussing

to me too is that you were discussing this um the the way this reactor worked

this um the the way this reactor worked and that these things were not really

and that these things were not really connected

connected no nothing is connected

no nothing is connected there's no wiring at all

that freaks me the [ __ ] out charge your iphone you know yeah one wireless

iphone you know yeah one wireless yeah

yeah yeah i mean that's the that's a simple

yeah i mean that's the that's a simple electromagnetic

electromagnetic yeah i know again but that's just simple

yeah i know again but that's just simple electromagnet magnetic induction right

electromagnet magnetic induction right but i mean tesla the scientist had this

but i mean tesla the scientist had this concept of right

he wanted to send wireless electricity through the sky and

wireless electricity through the sky and westinghouse was like get the [ __ ] out

westinghouse was like get the [ __ ] out of here with that like when anybody

of here with that like when anybody could just pull electricity out of this

could just pull electricity out of this meter yeah they couldn't they couldn't

meter yeah they couldn't they couldn't just talk in the car right over and

just talk in the car right over and trying to chill him out you know we're

trying to chill him out you know we're talking about tesla and how he you know

talking about tesla and how he you know he couldn't be metered and how it all

he couldn't be metered and how it all went down so it's funny bring it up yeah

went down so it's funny bring it up yeah yeah that that i mean who knows what

yeah that that i mean who knows what would have happened in terms of

would have happened in terms of innovation had he been allowed to go

innovation had he been allowed to go forward with that well we probably

forward with that well we probably wouldn't have computers

wouldn't have computers you think

you think yeah i'm pretty positive i mean forget

yeah i'm pretty positive i mean forget about microelectronics well this is

about microelectronics well this is dumping huge amounts of electromagnetic

dumping huge amounts of electromagnetic energy in the air and yeah we'd be able

energy in the air and yeah we'd be able to wirelessly turn on our lights but

to wirelessly turn on our lights but there'd be no radio communication the

there'd be no radio communication the interference would be something we could

interference would be something we could would be overwhelming it would induce

would be overwhelming it would induce electric currents in anything with a

electric currents in anything with a small wire on it so integrated circuits

small wire on it so integrated circuits transistors would be disintegrated

transistors would be disintegrated before they were even you know tested

before they were even you know tested for operation so it it would it would

for operation so it it would it would destroy [ __ ] us up yeah it would have

destroy [ __ ] us up yeah it would have stopped us dead we'd have it'd be great

stopped us dead we'd have it'd be great you could turn lighters on and heaters

you could turn lighters on and heaters from all over the place with no wires

from all over the place with no wires but it would stop modern electronics and

but it would stop modern electronics and if we became dependent on it it would

if we became dependent on it it would almost be like our dependence on fossil

almost be like our dependence on fossil fuels although it's destructive it's

fuels although it's destructive it's very difficult for us to get off the

very difficult for us to get off the nipple

nipple it would have changed the course of how

it would have changed the course of how we developed which is so interesting

we developed which is so interesting when you talk about if a civilization

when you talk about if a civilization another star system didn't even start

another star system didn't even start with fossil fuels they had 115 naturally

with fossil fuels they had 115 naturally on their planet and they're like cool

on their planet and they're like cool anti-gravity is pretty awesome well the

anti-gravity is pretty awesome well the fact that i think it's important that

fact that i think it's important that that actually happened yeah

that actually happened yeah it might have been stopped in its tracks

it might have been stopped in its tracks for a reason

for a reason whoa

whoa and

and it's just it's i think it's incredibly

it's just it's i think it's incredibly difficult for us to imagine

difficult for us to imagine technological progression under another

technological progression under another timeline other than the one that we've

timeline other than the one that we've experienced yeah that's difficult

experienced yeah that's difficult if we imagine what this

if we imagine what this alien race must have been like and

alien race must have been like and i mean god

i mean god just just to be able to see something

just just to be able to see something take like i mean obviously we've seen it

take like i mean obviously we've seen it in different life forms right like we

in different life forms right like we see the life of certain beetles in

see the life of certain beetles in comparison to the life of certain fish

comparison to the life of certain fish very very different existence very

very very different existence very different life cycles octopus yeah

different life cycles octopus yeah octopus yeah i mean we see all these

octopus yeah i mean we see all these different variables in terms of

different variables in terms of biological entities on earth but we

biological entities on earth but we don't see it in terms of technological

don't see it in terms of technological innovation as we're the only one that's

innovation as we're the only one that's intelligent that can innovate when we

intelligent that can innovate when we have intelligent creatures but they're

have intelligent creatures but they're in the ocean the only other thing that

in the ocean the only other thing that are like us are dolphins and orcas and

are like us are dolphins and orcas and whales and they don't have the ability

whales and they don't have the ability to manipulate their environment and

to manipulate their environment and subsequently because they don't have the

subsequently because they don't have the ability to manipulate their environment

ability to manipulate their environment we put them in fish tanks and we're like

we put them in fish tanks and we're like get in the tank do some tricks right

get in the tank do some tricks right you know the only thing he saw in the

you know the only thing he saw in the craft if we were considering bob's story

craft if we were considering bob's story the only thing that you he saw in the

the only thing that you he saw in the craft that he related to that looked

craft that he related to that looked like a human could make was this

like a human could make was this honeycomb hatch and i always loved that

honeycomb hatch and i always loved that because you're like obsessed with this

because you're like obsessed with this thing that you could recognize you know

thing that you could recognize you know the re yeah i i only focus on that

the re yeah i i only focus on that because it was the one thing that i

because it was the one thing that i understood how it worked what was it and

understood how it worked what was it and it was it was the access to the level

it was it was the access to the level below

below and

and it was um

it was um well you know if you take uh

well you know if you take uh you have a six pack of beer and you take

you have a six pack of beer and you take out the cardboard dividers

out the cardboard dividers set it on the table you can put a lot of

set it on the table you can put a lot of pressure on the top

pressure on the top but if you push it from the sides it

but if you push it from the sides it collapses flat

collapses flat so it was something like that in a

so it was something like that in a honeycomb shape that was essentially

honeycomb shape that was essentially some sort of sheet metal and you could

some sort of sheet metal and you could walk on that in the upper layer but if

walk on that in the upper layer but if you took the corner stuck your finger in

you took the corner stuck your finger in and pushed it collapsed and made a

and pushed it collapsed and made a an entryway so i thought that was a

an entryway so i thought that was a really unique i'd never seen that before

really unique i'd never seen that before and it was the only thing in the craft

and it was the only thing in the craft that made absolute sense to me i said ah

that made absolute sense to me i said ah we can make that and all that is is a

we can make that and all that is is a hatchway was there any discussion about

hatchway was there any discussion about the materials that were used to make the

the materials that were used to make the craft

craft i'm sure there was but that was a

i'm sure there was but that was a metallurgy division had nothing to do

metallurgy division had nothing to do with us so you never got a

with us so you never got a not even the slightest briefing i don't

not even the slightest briefing i don't even know if it was metal or it was

even know if it was metal or it was ceramic it's i think it there's a fine

ceramic it's i think it there's a fine line between the two

line between the two now one of the things that's happened to

now one of the things that's happened to you that has allowed people to discredit

you that has allowed people to discredit you was

you was there's obviously been some sort of an

there's obviously been some sort of an effort to erase your past

effort to erase your past yeah some sort of a ref uh an effort to

yeah some sort of a ref uh an effort to erase your education history your

erase your education history your employment history at los alamos in fact

employment history at los alamos in fact the only way your employment history was

the only way your employment history was proven at los alamos is someone got a

proven at los alamos is someone got a list a directory of the employees from

list a directory of the employees from the past

the past and read into it and you were on that

and read into it and you were on that list so it proved that you worked there

list so it proved that you worked there even though people were trying to deny

even though people were trying to deny and they were trying to use that as a

and they were trying to use that as a way to discredit you that you never did

way to discredit you that you never did work at los alamos you weren't really a

work at los alamos you weren't really a scientist

scientist what was what was that like to

what was what was that like to experience i mean of course we're

experience i mean of course we're talking about the 1980s the 1990s when

talking about the 1980s the 1990s when you could get away with something like

you could get away with something like that

that yeah obviously there are a lot less

yeah obviously there are a lot less uh

uh a lot less records on computers at that

a lot less records on computers at that time it was still file cabinets and

time it was still file cabinets and folders but uh yeah that was frightening

folders but uh yeah that was frightening that was one of the first things

i think it's i think george knapp was the first one that uncovered that i mean

the first one that uncovered that i mean he saw my birth certificate disappear he

he saw my birth certificate disappear he um it disappeared yeah there was no

um it disappeared yeah there was no record of you yeah there was there was

record of you yeah there was there was no record of that there was uh no record

no record of that there was uh no record his mom tells me about that like it was

his mom tells me about that like it was frightening for her for he's got a real

frightening for her for he's got a real family you know he's a real person it's

family you know he's a real person it's frightening for her

frightening for her but if the los alamos thing really

but if the los alamos thing really surprised me and that they were so

surprised me and that they were so adamant that no this guy never worked

adamant that no this guy never worked here don't be ridiculous and george went

here don't be ridiculous and george went back and forth you know for i got the

back and forth you know for i got the letters on the wall yeah months i mean

letters on the wall yeah months i mean it was ridiculous but fortunately

it was ridiculous but fortunately somebody came up with a 1982 phone book

somebody came up with a 1982 phone book directory i mean and also

directory i mean and also uh originally i told you uh

uh originally i told you uh you know when i worked there i was on

you know when i worked there i was on the front page of the the paper so they

the front page of the the paper so they were still able to archive you know

were still able to archive you know bring that back from the archives and

bring that back from the archives and you know bob lazar a physicist working

you know bob lazar a physicist working here at los alamos so there was at least

here at los alamos so there was at least something there but uh somehow george

something there but uh somehow george came up with the phone director and then

came up with the phone director and then george then bob took george with cameras

george then bob took george with cameras into los alamos oh yeah yeah so we flew

into los alamos oh yeah yeah so we flew out there and i said look come on in

out there and i said look come on in i'll show you where i worked we'll go in

i'll show you where i worked we'll go in we'll meet people and george went with

we'll meet people and george went with me and you know

me and you know i navigate the place oh yeah and you

i navigate the place oh yeah and you know met people and you know and almost

know met people and you know and almost was also the place where they had the

was also the place where they had the machine that was able to read the the

machine that was able to read the the size of your digits no no that wasn't

size of your digits no no that wasn't awesome that was s4 that was s4 and

awesome that was s4 that was s4 and explain that

explain that so

so now this was back in the 80s and this is

now this was back in the 80s and this is back in the 80s where when you discuss

back in the 80s where when you discuss this people like this doesn't even exist

this people like this doesn't even exist yeah okay what was it it was a way

yeah okay what was it it was a way you know this is before fingerprint

you know this is before fingerprint scanners and

scanners and you know and anything of

you know and anything of anything any high resolution scanner at

anything any high resolution scanner at that time so what it was was a device

that time so what it was was a device that uh had a little picture of a hand

that uh had a little picture of a hand on a glass plate with pins in it so you

on a glass plate with pins in it so you could jam your hand in there and there

could jam your hand in there and there was a bright light above it and a sensor

was a bright light above it and a sensor underneath and when you put your hand in

underneath and when you put your hand in there the light would turn on and it

there the light would turn on and it would measure the bones in your finger

would measure the bones in your finger because the light shown through your

because the light shown through your bones

bones and apparently

and apparently the length of the bones in your fingers

the length of the bones in your fingers are extremely unique and easy to measure

are extremely unique and easy to measure and they use that when you put your

and they use that when you put your hands on there the light would turn on

hands on there the light would turn on and your badge would pop out there's it

and your badge would pop out there's it right oh there it is that's that's it

right oh there it is that's that's it and i tried to describe this um to

and i tried to describe this um to people and they said that is the most

people and they said that is the most ridiculous thing we've ever heard

ridiculous thing we've ever heard and um

and um i said hey that my badge came out of

i said hey that my badge came out of that thing i put my hand on it badge

that thing i put my hand on it badge popped out and that's how i could open

popped out and that's how i could open the doors and get into s4

the doors and get into s4 and um you know and everybody

and um you know and everybody discredited that they said it was

discredited that they said it was [ __ ] it was science fiction and

[ __ ] it was science fiction and jeremy you found this

jeremy you found this i i found it through a good friend of

i i found it through a good friend of mine named tyler rogoway and he had some

mine named tyler rogoway and he had some good sources inside of area 52 where

good sources inside of area 52 where they also used these for the stealth

they also used these for the stealth program right around that time so now

program right around that time so now i've got all these people that worked

i've got all these people that worked within who you know said only if you're

within who you know said only if you're in certain programs would we use this

in certain programs would we use this technology it's kind of [ __ ] actually

technology it's kind of [ __ ] actually they didn't keep it for very long

they didn't keep it for very long beginning of biometrics so i was able to

beginning of biometrics so i was able to reveal it in my film i kept my mouth

reveal it in my film i kept my mouth shut until i showed it to bob you know

shut until i showed it to bob you know the movie is the first time he saw it

the movie is the first time he saw it was how you see it in the documentary

was how you see it in the documentary that's his genuine reaction i'm getting

that's his genuine reaction i'm getting goosebumps that was a great idea the way

goosebumps that was a great idea the way you did it thank you man because you

you did it thank you man because you know what guess what i'm actually trying

know what guess what i'm actually trying to see if he's telling the truth that's

to see if he's telling the truth that's how i started you know that's how i

how i started you know that's how i started so it was really cool to see

started so it was really cool to see that that you get to see it his actual

that that you get to see it his actual reaction has that been verified by other

reaction has that been verified by other people yeah so

people yeah so yeah so to me it has uh personally i get

yeah so to me it has uh personally i get emails every day and people are telling

emails every day and people are telling me where these are used and how they're

me where these are used and how they're used and send me photos i got a lot of

used and send me photos i got a lot of photos of identity mats now well how

photos of identity mats now well how they were used right they're not how

they were used right they're not how they were used yeah but uh i don't the

they were used yeah but uh i don't the most recent one was

most recent one was way more recent than i thought in

way more recent than i thought in another country but yeah that technology

another country but yeah that technology was used so what's so funny is

was used so what's so funny is um

um that this technology even in the area 52

that this technology even in the area 52 where they'd use him for tonopah one of

where they'd use him for tonopah one of the guys who will go on camera with me

the guys who will go on camera with me he will do an interview with me he was a

he will do an interview with me he was a technician for one of these and and he

technician for one of these and and he hated them because they were really bad

hated them because they were really bad they always broke down and never and he

they always broke down and never and he was a technician for him now he won't

was a technician for him now he won't tell me where if he worked at area 52 so

tell me where if he worked at area 52 so it's probably tonopah

it's probably tonopah it's very separated even on base but

it's very separated even on base but yeah so

yeah so there was that yeah there is your

there was that yeah there is your education record that was also like what

education record that was also like what happened with that

happened with that well that disappeared also you know that

well that disappeared also you know that i i've i've never gone

i i've i've never gone i've never gone anywhere for education

i've never gone anywhere for education i've never gone i never attended any

i've never gone i never attended any classes at caltech i never attended

classes at caltech i never attended anything at mit

anything at mit you did attend classes in those places i

you did attend classes in those places i did attend classes in those places do

did attend classes in those places do you know anybody that you went to school

you know anybody that you went to school with

with yes i do and have they verified that

yes i do and have they verified that they went to school with you well i gave

they went to school with you well i gave jeremy some names but people yeah i the

jeremy some names but people yeah i the reason i don't say these names publicly

reason i don't say these names publicly is because every single time i mention a

is because every single time i mention a name somebody gets injured they don't

name somebody gets injured they don't want to be of course yeah yeah of course

want to be of course yeah yeah of course um but what what is that experience like

um but what what is that experience like seeing your birth certificate erased

seeing your birth certificate erased seeing your employment well it's

seeing your employment well it's frightening it's it's absolutely

frightening it's it's absolutely frightening it's also the fuel that the

frightening it's also the fuel that the debunkers use the so-called air quote

debunkers use the so-called air quote skeptics i don't like the term skeptics

skeptics i don't like the term skeptics i'm going to say this publicly because i

i'm going to say this publicly because i really only said this privately i think

really only said this privately i think it's a sloppy lazy way to look at things

it's a sloppy lazy way to look at things to just be a skeptic

to just be a skeptic i want people to be objective

i want people to be objective and i think there's a lot of things you

and i think there's a lot of things you should be skeptical of i think you

should be skeptical of i think you should you should look at things and

should you should look at things and look at things

look at things from a hard-line science perspective you

from a hard-line science perspective you should be subjective but the idea of

should be subjective but the idea of skeptics the problem with that is you're

skeptics the problem with that is you're always looking for things to be [ __ ]

always looking for things to be [ __ ] yeah and i think that's dangerous

yeah and i think that's dangerous because i think some things aren't

because i think some things aren't [ __ ] it's confirmation bias on the

[ __ ] it's confirmation bias on the other end you're just deciding to take a

other end you're just deciding to take a square thing and put it around hold no

square thing and put it around hold no matter what and i find a lot of them to

matter what and i find a lot of them to be lazy

be lazy a lot of them to be lazy thinkers sure

a lot of them to be lazy thinkers sure because they're always putting it into

because they're always putting it into that box instead of going hmm

that box instead of going hmm instead of just separating their ego

instead of just separating their ego they're trying they're playing a game

they're trying they're playing a game and the game is calling [ __ ] i want

and the game is calling [ __ ] i want to call [ __ ] and i'm gonna line up

to call [ __ ] and i'm gonna line up all these reasons why it's [ __ ] and

all these reasons why it's [ __ ] and i'm gonna ignore anything that might be

i'm gonna ignore anything that might be contrary to that definition yeah

contrary to that definition yeah every time i'm thinking i'm going to

every time i'm thinking i'm going to catch him in something you know all

catch him in something you know all along this process um i found dr krangle

along this process um i found dr krangle he came forward and said i was in

he came forward and said i was in security briefings with bob lazar the

security briefings with bob lazar the physicist at los angeles he went on the

physicist at los angeles he went on the record with me now the other people i

record with me now the other people i talked with why won't they go on the

talked with why won't they go on the record with me because they're still

record with me because they're still working there

working there so that that's the difference right what

so that that's the difference right what is that what can the public have right

is that what can the public have right or even if they're not working there

or even if they're not working there that you know they want to live their

that you know they want to live their lives why i mean obviously people have

lives why i mean obviously people have seen what's happened to you mike thigpen

seen what's happened to you mike thigpen after 30 years yeah really if you look

after 30 years yeah really if you look at all the information on

at all the information on you know concerning my accounts that's

you know concerning my accounts that's that's verifiable

that's verifiable it can't possibly be a [ __ ] story

it can't possibly be a [ __ ] story anymore it's really way past that point

anymore it's really way past that point yeah i mean that was my big pin is i

yeah i mean that was my big pin is i mean how could i possibly know

mean how could i possibly know uh so mike fig pin

uh so mike fig pin was the guy that did the security

was the guy that did the security clearances to go to the bait one of the

clearances to go to the bait one of the guys that was this is the guy that you

guys that was this is the guy that you worked with he said he did

worked with he said he did right and and george knapp you know

right and and george knapp you know george didn't believe him george put him

george didn't believe him george put him through four polygraph tests right he

through four polygraph tests right he tried to see man this is a big risk it

tried to see man this is a big risk it sounds interesting but let's see if he's

sounds interesting but let's see if he's telling the truth one of the things was

telling the truth one of the things was bob said there's a guy named mike

bob said there's a guy named mike thigpen he did security clearances for

thigpen he did security clearances for the base and that's a weird name it's

the base and that's a weird name it's very specific

very specific for 30 years george

for 30 years george found this guy in this weird department

found this guy in this weird department that he didn't even know it was my big

that he didn't even know it was my big pin the guy wouldn't talk to me ghosted

pin the guy wouldn't talk to me ghosted him totally ghosting for 30 years used

him totally ghosting for 30 years used facebook and google image match through

facebook and google image match through his children i was able to find him

his children i was able to find him after 30 years and i talked to him three

after 30 years and i talked to him three times on the phone he lives on the east

times on the phone he lives on the east coast he almost went on camera with me

coast he almost went on camera with me confirmed that he did security

confirmed that he did security clearances for the base in 1989

clearances for the base in 1989 confirmed he remembers bob lazar and

confirmed he remembers bob lazar and what you don't know is there's a

what you don't know is there's a handwritten note that a friend of yours

handwritten note that a friend of yours has from mike what i know i'm gonna give

has from mike what i know i'm gonna give it to you later i don't but that is real

it to you later i don't but that is real that is actual so a handwritten note

that is actual so a handwritten note that says what you know like this is new

that says what you know like this is new to me so when the i

to me so when the i when you're

when they do security client clearances they go through all your friends and

they go through all your friends and they go to your friend's phone yeah yeah

they go to your friend's phone yeah yeah so this is too bob and

so this is too bob and i had people come to me for a friend of

i had people come to me for a friend of mine that's serving and they're doing

mine that's serving and they're doing the security clearance for him and even

the security clearance for him and even though i'm like the ufo guy

though i'm like the ufo guy they did you know the fbi come and visit

they did you know the fbi come and visit my house and make sure that they talk

my house and make sure that they talk about my friend and they lift a little

about my friend and they lift a little card and when my wife told him to get

card and when my wife told him to get away because he didn't know who they

away because he didn't know who they were they left a little card it's super

were they left a little card it's super cute now back then it was a handwritten

cute now back then it was a handwritten note and his friend has it for him that

note and his friend has it for him that you haven't seen in oh my god two

you haven't seen in oh my god two decades

decades so if you're listening

so if you're listening you're telling me what it is

you're telling me what it is what is this card

what is this card it's just a little handwritten note with

it's just a little handwritten note with mike thigpen's signature card like like

mike thigpen's signature card like like a like a postcard

a like a postcard like a piece of paper that he left on

like a piece of paper that he left on the door saying when bob gets back or

the door saying when bob gets back or whatever it says on it so it's just

whatever it says on it so it's just another little funny thing i found the

another little funny thing i found the guy he does the security clearances he

guy he does the security clearances he admitted to me he did it and he admitted

admitted to me he did it and he admitted to me he was dodging george knapp

to me he was dodging george knapp because when george said his name on the

because when george said his name on the writ on the on the news he dropped his

writ on the on the news he dropped his fork into his steak or into his potatoes

fork into his steak or into his potatoes or whatever and he's looking at his wife

or whatever and he's looking at his wife he was in trouble his name's never

he was in trouble his name's never supposed to be out there like it's just

supposed to be out there like it's just a security clearance guy but you don't

a security clearance guy but you don't want national attention associated with

want national attention associated with anything bob has to say but anyway this

anything bob has to say but anyway this unique name bob said for 30 years and

unique name bob said for 30 years and the guy ghosted george knapp george

the guy ghosted george knapp george could prove he existed he actually

could prove he existed he actually talked to me man he talked to me three

talked to me man he talked to me three times he almost went on camera with me

times he almost went on camera with me it's just crazy what what do you what

it's just crazy what what do you what happens after 30 years you just get more

happens after 30 years you just get more info well that's one of the reasons why

info well that's one of the reasons why when you and me and jeremy and george

when you and me and jeremy and george knapp had that conversation on the phone

knapp had that conversation on the phone yeah i said i think

yeah i said i think what we can do

what we can do with this podcast

with this podcast is important i really do i think it's

is important i really do i think it's important for people to hear this

important for people to hear this from you in a very clear

from you in a very clear just very concise way

just very concise way and if you examine all the information

and if you examine all the information that you've said today if you you look

that you've said today if you you look at all the things that the detractors

at all the things that the detractors have said if you look at all of the new

have said if you look at all of the new recent evidence that's coming out and

recent evidence that's coming out and all these

all these really high-level people in the military

really high-level people in the military and the government that are discussing

and the government that are discussing this

this it gives you

it gives you far more credibility than you would have

far more credibility than you would have had in the 19 years when this came out

had in the 19 years when this came out [ __ ] yes you can't ignore his story just

[ __ ] yes you can't ignore his story just because you don't like it anymore that's

because you don't like it anymore that's why i thought it was important that you

why i thought it was important that you come out and refresh the world's memory

come out and refresh the world's memory and let people know and like i said i've

and let people know and like i said i've been i mean i want to say i'm a fan of

been i mean i want to say i'm a fan of yours but i guess i'm a fan of yours as

yours but i guess i'm a fan of yours as a human being i'm a fan of yours but

a human being i'm a fan of yours but i've been following you for decades i've

i've been following you for decades i've been following the story for decades i

been following the story for decades i mean i'm kidding i have vhs tapes bob

mean i'm kidding i have vhs tapes bob like a lot of the world has yeah it's

like a lot of the world has yeah it's crazy well anybody that has any sort of

crazy well anybody that has any sort of uh a vested interest or a just a even uh

uh a vested interest or a just a even uh just a fascination with ufos has

just a fascination with ufos has followed your story because there's no

followed your story because there's no one else there's no one else that comes

one else there's no one else that comes for this some guy who said i worked

for this some guy who said i worked underground with the aliens they shot my

underground with the aliens they shot my hand off like there's a bunch of wacky

hand off like there's a bunch of wacky dudes

dudes they're underground there's bases

they're underground there's bases they're shooting lasers through the

they're shooting lasers through the earth's crust and they move them at

earth's crust and they move them at light speed there's a lot of those guys

light speed there's a lot of those guys they seem schizophrenic they seem crazy

they seem schizophrenic they seem crazy they might even be disinformation agents

they might even be disinformation agents they might be people that are designed

they might be people that are designed to muddy the waters which for sure has

to muddy the waters which for sure has happened people are coming forward

happened people are coming forward though now it's amazing by doing this

though now it's amazing by doing this what you're doing you're providing an

what you're doing you're providing an opportunity for bob to tell a story you

opportunity for bob to tell a story you know believe it or not he can tell a

know believe it or not he can tell a story it's amazing because more people

story it's amazing because more people will come forward now

will come forward now that are involved with these projects

that are involved with these projects they'll come forward to you to me

they'll come forward to you to me they're coming forward and so what

they're coming forward and so what you've done here is provide that

you've done here is provide that opportunity if they need it and it's

opportunity if they need it and it's amazing i just want to say bob just

amazing i just want to say bob just don't come forward no don't come forward

don't come forward no don't come forward to bob

to bob why were you freaking nauseous at the

why were you freaking nauseous at the beginning of this like so

beginning of this like so upset why was your why'd you have a

upset why was your why'd you have a migraine because that started off so

migraine because that started off so hard my god i was sitting here like did

hard my god i was sitting here like did this why are you asking him why because

this why are you asking him why because obviously anxiety the guy's gone through

obviously anxiety the guy's gone through 30 [ __ ] years of being persecuted i

30 [ __ ] years of being persecuted i just want to erase his birth certificate

just want to erase his birth certificate i just want to hear what you hear from i

i just want to hear what you hear from i want to hear him say i want them why did

want to hear him say i want them why did i have to say that you don't just set it

i have to say that you don't just set it up get it i step out okay settle down

yeah well i get it you were it was hard for you to get them here you know and i

for you to get them here you know and i was for us yeah you you don't you do

was for us yeah you you don't you do what really annoys me are the people

what really annoys me are the people that think you know you guys just came

that think you know you guys just came up with the story to make a bunch of

up with the story to make a bunch of money or get a bunch of you know

money or get a bunch of you know attention and that's a good point so

attention and that's a good point so please explain that first of all i don't

please explain that first of all i don't get any money out of this at all and i

get any money out of this at all and i may i didn't even let you guys buy plane

may i didn't even let you guys buy plane tickets for me to come out here or

tickets for me to come out here or anything i mean

anything i mean any time like when jeremy

any time like when jeremy uh pre-previewed i guess the movie up in

uh pre-previewed i guess the movie up in michigan

michigan i mean they it brought in like a couple

i mean they it brought in like a couple thousand dollars i made sure that two

thousand dollars i made sure that two thousand dollars went to science

thousand dollars went to science programs at the local high schools there

programs at the local high schools there dirty money i don't want to touch it i

dirty money i don't want to touch it i don't take any money from this stuff and

don't take any money from this stuff and as far as attention

as far as attention i hate [ __ ] attention i don't like

i hate [ __ ] attention i don't like being on shows i just want to kind of

being on shows i just want to kind of hide in the corner and do my own thing

hide in the corner and do my own thing so that's i got enough hugs when i was a

so that's i got enough hugs when i was a kid okay i don't need any attention so

kid okay i don't need any attention so now that if if you if you think somehow

now that if if you if you think somehow we came up with this thing then you got

we came up with this thing then you got to tell me why we did it well you've

to tell me why we did it well you've done a great job of

done a great job of making sure you have your bases covered

making sure you have your bases covered in that regard that you haven't profited

in that regard that you haven't profited off of this and like you said that you

off of this and like you said that you have donated whatever money that came

have donated whatever money that came your way to science programs it's i mean

your way to science programs it's i mean it it doesn't make any sense

it it doesn't make any sense any other way

any other way i mean what you're what i've gotten out

i mean what you're what i've gotten out of here is what i thought i was going to

of here is what i thought i was going to get out of here when i watched the

get out of here when i watched the documentary that you what you're saying

documentary that you what you're saying makes sense it doesn't make sense that

makes sense it doesn't make sense that it's [ __ ] that happened exactly like

it's [ __ ] that happened exactly like i said it did joe i believe you

i said it did joe i believe you um in closing is there anything else

um in closing is there anything else you'd like to say

no i can't think of anything other than really don't come and try to visit me

really don't come and try to visit me [Laughter]

[Laughter] well um i know that you have paid a huge

well um i know that you have paid a huge personal cost to get this information

personal cost to get this information out and i mean maybe you didn't

out and i mean maybe you didn't understand what that cost would have

understand what that cost would have been when you first initially came

been when you first initially came forward with the story but over the past

forward with the story but over the past 30 years it's been immense it's been

30 years it's been immense it's been great and i just want to thank you for

great and i just want to thank you for that and thank you for all these people

that and thank you for all these people that would not have gotten this

that would not have gotten this information and would not have really

information and would not have really had this story any other way

had this story any other way oh thanks joe thank you

oh thanks joe thank you and thank you jeremy and one more time

and thank you jeremy and one more time the documentary is available on netflix

the documentary is available on netflix right now yeah it's called bob lazar

right now yeah it's called bob lazar area 51 and flying saucers all right

area 51 and flying saucers all right that's it folks good night

that's it folks good night [Music]

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YouTube Transcript:Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell

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YouTube Transcript:
Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell