0:07 so yeah we're lucky enough to have Anton
0:10 Creole here and he started his career
0:14 with trading at about 16 with his own
0:17 money and then got recruited into
0:20 Goldman Sachs headhunted Lehman Brothers
0:24 JP Morgan before retiring traveling the
0:29 world then he you may know that he also
0:32 did a PPC program million-dollar traders
0:35 and proceeded to form his own company
0:38 and next year he's trying he's going to
0:42 travel to space hopefully so yeah it's
0:44 pretty ridiculous career I think we're
0:46 gonna learn a lot from this interview
0:49 and so if we could just have a warm
0:50 welcome and a round of applause for
1:04 Anton and okay so let's make a start and
1:06 how did you get into the world of
1:09 trading and started trading pretty young
1:11 as you mentioned in the in the
1:14 introduction started when I was 16
1:18 basically so grew up in Liverpool and
1:22 was watching documentaries on television
1:26 about the markets said this was like
1:29 1994-95 and there was a lot of
1:31 documentaries on TV about Thatcher's
1:35 Britain and lots of guys in the in the
1:39 city were making lots of money so I was
1:40 watching these documentaries thinking I
1:42 could do it because I'm clever in these
1:45 guys so who heard so literally opened
1:47 the trading account with a local stock
1:50 broker in the north of England and back
1:53 then it was all physical stock so you
1:56 couldn't leverage or borrow money which
2:00 rate so it was 1 for 1 cash trading in
2:04 physical shares and really got into the
2:07 IPO situations where you could buy
2:09 stocks in the morning where you put in
2:11 for the IPO allocation a few weeks
2:15 earlier you get the IPO allocation and
2:17 without even paying for it and then you can
2:18 can
2:21 the IPO like at lunchtime if it goes up
2:24 you know 50 a hundred percent with it
2:26 because it was all t plus three
2:27 settlement so you used to have to send
2:30 the check to the stockbroker and then
2:32 it'd be settled in three days so you you
2:35 were able to flip IPOs are not actually
2:37 pay for them so really got into it that
2:40 way okay and you continued trading at
2:43 university yeah so at university you
2:47 know it was 97 to 2000 so I was pretty
2:50 lucky I caught the tech bull market the
2:53 tech boom so flipping IPOs and trading
2:55 IPOs was actually really straightforward
2:59 and university day used to be get up at
3:03 6:00 a.m. do an hour's research market
3:06 with open at 8:00 put on my positions go
3:08 to lectures lunchtime go in the computer
3:11 room flip them but most of it was
3:14 already done over most of it was done
3:18 over the telephone so in my day wasn't
3:21 so long ago this was the heaven this was
3:24 before broadband so everything was
3:27 dial-up and you know at home it used to
3:29 cost like a pound a minute to plug your
3:33 internet in so and you used to only get
3:35 quotes online and when you pick up the
3:38 telephone to trade the quotes upon the
3:40 brokers would be totally different from
3:42 what you see on the screen so it was
3:46 pretty slow spreads were really wide so
3:47 you had to trade very volatile
3:50 situations and then go home in the
3:52 evening do a bit of research and do the
3:55 same again the next day was it that
3:56 experience that got you into Goldman
4:01 Sachs pretty much yeah the Goldman Sachs
4:04 situation was you know typical situation
4:07 where they come around on the milk rant
4:10 and do presentations so obviously it
4:11 first second year university you go to
4:13 all of these and you get to know all the
4:15 companies I'm sure here you have the
4:20 same even today that the track record
4:22 which is just all of your trades that
4:23 you've ever done and your performance
4:27 and your risk over return the track
4:29 record would you know I basically told
4:31 one of the traders on the desk at the press
4:31 press
4:34 patience you know the amount of money
4:36 that I made in university all the
4:38 situations I was trading and they were
4:42 really interested so I basically had a
4:43 telephone interview the next day and
4:46 emailed them my track record so the
4:48 telephone interview was with the head of
4:51 the desk and then I was invited down the
4:54 next week to have interviews and then
4:56 offered the job on the same day
4:59 basically okay do you think that method
5:01 still applies for getting students into
5:03 the say that for us that want to follow
5:05 in the same sort of path do you think
5:07 that's the right way to go about getting
5:10 a job getting a trading job now one of
5:13 the big problems with with applying to
5:16 investment banks hedge funds all
5:19 financial institutions really is a lot
5:20 of the industries of instructional
5:23 decline at the moment so you see
5:25 investment banks culling tens of
5:26 thousands of people in the Western world
5:30 hedge funds pulling back on hiring the
5:32 insurance industry pretty much the same
5:35 but the amount of applications has gone
5:37 up exponentially in the last 10 15 years
5:39 everyone seems to have an undergraduate
5:42 degree now everyone has a masters so who
5:45 you know differentiating yourself is
5:47 really really hard in my day the way I
5:49 differentiating myself was by doing as
5:51 well and I think it's still really a
5:53 place if you can show something on your
5:55 resume and show something in your
5:58 experience where you've actually applied
6:01 real trading methodologies and use real
6:04 money you stand out in a huge way you
6:05 know everybody's got an undergrad with a
6:08 2:1 everyone's got a master's when I
6:10 used to see CVS right now yeah used to
6:13 hire a lot of people in the industry
6:16 piles of CVS were dropping my desk from
6:19 HR HR is really just a filtering process
6:21 they don't know what makes a good trader
6:24 but they know that people tick all the
6:26 boxes so the Seavey's end up on the desk
6:30 but there's thousands of them and it's
6:32 literally sometimes just taking them and
6:33 going to one
6:36 masters couple of good place
6:38 institutions that you went to nothing
6:40 really interesting about this person bin
6:43 I mean it that's sometimes that can be
6:45 the process
6:47 okay so you're already trading once
6:49 you're at goldman sachs how did how did
6:52 they develop durability and well you
6:55 know publicly you know these companies
6:56 that these companies are public
6:58 companies so they're always gonna say
7:00 that they have official training
7:02 programs it's something you know public
7:03 companies have to show their
7:05 shareholders that they're being
7:09 responsible in in training they're the
7:11 people that they hire so you do have an
7:13 official training program that you go on
7:17 in New York which is pretty much sitting
7:19 in a lecture theatre like we're here now
7:22 for a couple of months but also you're
7:26 given a seat on on the trading floor on
7:28 Wall Street to be honest what you learn
7:30 in those in that situation is really
7:34 about applied finance more that you
7:39 would learn in a masters but also the
7:42 culture of the firm and you get to meet
7:44 everybody and all the right people in
7:47 the US office so you don't really learn
7:50 how to trade or learn about your
7:53 profession in practice that's when you
7:56 come back on the desk and really that's
7:59 where you works what you learn okay so
8:01 you spend about four years at Goldman's
8:05 and what were your highlights highlights
8:07 well walking onto the desk in the first
8:11 week where it's all hands to the pump
8:13 because it was the tech boom so this
8:19 would have been a June 2000 and it was
8:21 crazy so they just give you a pot of
8:23 money with me it was ten million dollars
8:25 to start they say
8:27 learn how to trade this guy next to you
8:28 is going to teach you what to do press
8:30 this button to buy press this button to
8:34 sell and because it was the tech boom it
8:36 was you know every day walking in with
8:38 pretty much very little experience
8:41 saying right we're gonna we're going to
8:43 give you some responsibilities today you
8:45 know after a couple of weeks you'll go
8:48 to IPO this company and I'm like okay so
8:50 I'm on the other side of the IPO now
8:54 that I'm used to ahem and then next day
8:56 doing a rights issue raising capital for
8:58 companies next day selling stake sink
9:00 these four large shareholders and
9:04 pension funds so yeah I mean the first
9:07 couple of months of real baptism of fire
9:10 you know I thought I knew stuff I didn't
9:12 know anything until I walked onto that
9:18 floor I guess big trading situations I
9:20 mean there's so many but ones that you
9:23 know really stand out probably during
9:27 the tech boom doing all the IPOs 2001
9:29 September the 11th a huge situation in
9:33 the market the recession we periods of
9:37 2002 and then the take off of the market
9:41 in oh three oh four okay and we'll have
9:43 a little pause now and get some audience
10:06 questions any so far yeah I really think
10:08 so I mean you've you've really got to do
10:11 it in practice with real money
10:13 if you get the experience doing that
10:15 even if you lose a little bit of money
10:17 you've got to see it as paying for the
10:20 education of trading with real money so
10:22 even if you lose money and say to an
10:24 investment bank or a hedge fund this is
10:26 my track record I lost a couple of
10:28 thousand pounds last year trading they
10:31 will look at that favorably so you've
10:33 got no downside in doing it so as long
10:34 as you show that you've done it and
10:37 you've traded for a year and they say
10:39 well what lessons have you learned well
10:40 I've learned not to do this I've learned
10:42 not to do this the market last year was
10:43 really tough the fact that you're
10:46 actually doing it means you're going to
10:49 learn faster so you because what you
10:50 know there's a great saying you're not
10:52 trading until you've got a position okay
10:54 or you don't know anything about a stock
10:57 until you've got a position you know so
10:59 once you have a position in something
11:02 you're forced to learn and monitor your
11:05 risk so I think it's it's it's really
11:07 really important to do it and you know
11:09 then going into the investment banking
11:12 site it is very very different so the
11:12 approach to trade
11:14 is very different in investment banks
11:17 and hedge funds the way professionals
11:20 did it compared to the retail trader or
11:23 the man on the street so you'll learn
11:25 how to do that but from the ground up
11:28 just having a position will teach you a
11:47 lot I would say okay in terms of volatility
11:47 volatility
11:50 you know volatility creates
11:53 opportunities for traders over any given
11:56 time horizon and that's what traders
11:58 live and die on they need volatility
12:02 otherwise you can't make money so the
12:05 forex market you know implied volatility
12:06 over the last couple of years has been
12:08 absolutely crushed we've actually seen
12:09 it tick up a little bit recently
12:12 especially in dollar yen you know huge
12:17 moves forex is is good to learn in but
12:19 don't expect to make loads of money if
12:21 you're day trading because actually the
12:22 important of ala Atilla T of forex at
12:25 the moment of the major g10 currency
12:28 pairs globally is very very low so it's
12:30 very difficult to make money over short
12:33 periods of time in equities generally
12:37 historically volatility is higher than
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