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Who was Abu Hanifa? With Shaykh Hamza Karamali | Blogging Theology | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Who was Abu Hanifa? With Shaykh Hamza Karamali
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This content explores the life, significance, and legacy of Imam Abu Hanifa, the founder of the Hanafi school of Sunni jurisprudence, highlighting his intellectual independence, integrity, and the unique development of early Islamic civilization.
hello everyone and welcome to blogging
theology uh today I'm delighted to talk
to Sheikh Hamza karamali you're most
welcome again sir thank you for having
me again Paul it's a pleasure to be with
you a pleasure to have you now those who
don't know Hamza is the founder of the
Sierra education where he trains parents
teachers and Scholars in high schools
weekend religious schools and a variety
of other educational institutions how to
show their students why Islam is true
he's developed a textbook an online
teachers portal and is on a mission to
train 10 000 teachers and I link to his
work in the description below
Hamza will be speaking today about Abu
halifa who was a Muslim Theologian
jurist uh who became the eponymous
founder of the hanafi school of Sunni
jurisprudence which has remained the
most widely practiced uh school of law
in the Muslim world and it's reported
actually that he personally met at a
number of the sahaba these the actual
Companions of the Prophet uh including
anas IBN Malik so he's an incredibly
early and significant figure in Muslim
history and he's famous for authoring
this book The the guitar of Imam Abu
hanifa obviously this is the English
translator huge great big wedge a brick
of a book and it is actually the first
book of Islam after the time of the
companions so it's a really important
one it's basically full of Hadith and
it's uh I've been reading it earlier on
again and it's really interesting
actually even today
um so um Sheikh Hamza could you perhaps
uh who was Imam Abu hanifa and why is he
so important
so as you said the reason why he's
normally held to be important is because
he's the founder of one of the four
schools of Sunni Islamic law or Jewish
Prudence he but I think there's another
reason and that reason is why he's one
of my favorite Scholars
um and that reason is that he was a
publicly revered scholar
um people respected him people looked up
to him and he commanded
um public opinion to such a degree that
um caliphs sought out his approval
um he refused to give it to them he was
uh he was a person of Integrity
um and he was an independent scholar he
didn't have any outside influence and he
took a number of dangerous public stands
during his lifetime and because of that
he won the love of the Muslim masses and
I think that that these events that took
place around him they capture something
that's very surprising but very special
about early Islamic civilization that we
should know about much more
wow and it wasn't an Arab was he well I
mean people I must have been an Arab but
he wasn't
that's right he wasn't and
um he actually most Scholars um before
his time just shortly before his time
um they weren't Arab and that comes as a
surprise to have this I have the snipper
it's a famous um conversation that took
place between one of the caliphs and one
of the scholars of the time
um and uh
no caliph was uh the Muslim rulers he
wasn't just like like the pope like a
spiritual figurehead type yeah it was an
actual rule it had political and
military power so to speak uh to him was
really important it wasn't just some
kind of figurehead yeah and this
difference between a caliph and a pope
is I think it's something that's really
important that will come out in um in
today's uh in today's conversation so uh
so there's a one of the uh
lives there was a scholar who came to
him his name was he said he asked him he
said oh and so so the scholars they used
to be in the courts of the caliphs
um there was positive to it there's a
negative to it
um we're going to look at the positive
and the reason why that happened it
comes out in the story of Abu hanifa
we'll get that in a second but the
important thing here is that he asked he
says Oh I thought do you know do you
have any knowledge of the of the leading
Scholars of the Muslim
centers the Muslim cities at this time
so that you had you had there was Medina
there was matka there was Damascus
um there was goofa there's all of these
other all of these cities and each City
had a prominent scholar who was
most respected by the people in that
City so he said yes um I do so he said
who is the leading scholar the leading
fatih of the people of Medina he said
the freed slave of IBN Abdullah is the
son of
and so he had a I mean I'd like to say
quote unquote slave because I think one
of the things that that comes out from
here is that as an institution slavery
was very different in this time than
what we're used to hearing so uh so he's
there's nothing he's one of the teachers
main teachers of Imam Malik and he was
captured in a war and he served uh the
the son of um he became Muslim he was
freed and he became the leading
religious authority of the city of
Medina and he wasn't and so so he says
here the the caliph says
um he didn't he didn't ask but it's
obvious he's not in Arab and the Arabs
they came to him they sat at his feet
they learned from him
um then he said what about of Makkah and
then he said that there's another
another Scholar's name is he said is he
an Arab or is he a maula mola is
normally a freed slave could have a
slightly different relationship as well
so he said he's a mola he's a not
normally a freed slave he said what
about the people of Yemen and he
mentioned somebody called babus and he
asked him again is he Arabian or is he a
mola he said he's a moda he said what
about the people of yamama this is like
he said what about the people of
Damascus he said macro said is he is he
a mola
non-arabian former slave or an Arabian
he said he's a moda he said what about
the people of
um Iraq in between in the Tigers and the
Euphrates Mesopotamia he said he said is
he in Arabian he said he's a he's a moda
he said what about the people of Persia
you mentioned somebody else who's also a
mola when he asked about him he said
what about the people of Basra he said
Hassan and famous he's also amoda and uh
yeah he's a ton of slaves of the wives
of the Prophet saws
and uh and then he said what about the
people of kufa who we're going to look
at today and he mentioned that their
their main scholar is Ibrahim who is in
the chain of teachers of Abu hanifa and
he asked him is he um amola or or an
Arabian said no he's he's an Arabian so
he said I thought that you would that
there wouldn't be any Arabians left so
uh so what happened was that the in this
um some recent writers
um they've they've uh they've described
this phenomenon in a very nice way they
said that the the prophet and his
companions they weren't people of civilization
civilization
they were Bedouins and came from a predominantly
predominantly
illiterate Society but the prophet saws
taught them and they made civilization
they made they made a civilization it
was very literate
um but the but what through these
through this through the interaction
that happened between the Arabians and
the Persians in particular image as a Persian
Persian
um they they came into the Muslim lands
they studied with the Companions and
because they are a literate so these
these quote unquote slaves many of them
they were highly learned educated people
and so when they when they became when
they became Muslim this way of analytic thinking
thinking
um and uh systematic organization
definitions analysis which they're used
to it it
came into into the Muslim world and um
many of the Islamic Sciences the leading
Scholars are all for this reason they're
not they weren't they weren't Arabian
they weren't Arabs see but wait the
founder of Arabic you know he's a
Persian he learned uh it wasn't his uh
native tongue he is famous he went to a
he wanted to study Hadith and um so he
went and he recited a Hadith and he made
a he made a mistake in a in a vowel and
seems like the teacher was maybe a
little bit bad tempered so he got upset
at him and as he said he made a
grammatical mistake in the in the Hadith
of the Prophet salallahu alaihi wasallam
so he swore an oath he said I'm going to
learn a science because of which nobody
will ever say I made a grammatical
mistake again wow and he became sibo is
like he's really big in Arabic grammar
and grammar in general there's no
grammar anywhere in the world Listen to
the first people who invent grammar so
so to come back to the question yes um
Abu hanifa was not in Arab and he was
actually as a Persian from what was
today Iran obviously yeah he was uh in
the so the Persians Persian civilization
it was a um it was one of the
superpowers of the time again it stopped
came it came to an abrupt end
um because of the Muslims it came to an
end at a time with the companions so the
Persians they their lands were far
beyond Iran and Persian
um influential people they were in the
neighboring land so he was actually he
was from a city he's from Kabul present
presentation so that's where his uh his
but he's Persian and his uh grandfather
and father
Persian and they came and they settled
in a city called goofa kufa was built
um in the time of uh Omar and it was uh
built out of nothing so it was just
after the Muslims had won the Battle of
padeshia they taken testifan and the
Persian Empire basically came there was
a capital so because Persia was so far
away and the Muslim armies they departed
from Medina they needed a base that was
closer to uh to Persia so he uh they
looked around the the companions didn't
like to swim as they were scared of
water so so there you had these tigers
and Euphrates so he uh so that he tried
to keep them on this side of the uh of
the water but close as close as possible
to uh to to Persia and Mesopotamia
so they chose this place kufa and they
made a city initially it was tents then
grew into a permanent settlement and he
wanted said normal he wanted to keep the
these Arabian armies away from the
Persians because he didn't want them to
get used to luxury and lose their
um their ruggedness and but it grew into
uh it became very quickly it became an
economic Center
um administrative Center so that's why
um it overtook there were two centers in
the time of the companions there was the
religious Center in Medina but then kufa
it became the financial military
decision-making place that's why in the
time of the fourth kale if Ali he moved
the capital from Medina to kufa and uh
many companions they went there so Abu
halifa's father his name is sabet Abu
hanif his name is Norman his father's
name is Sabbath and when he when his
father as a child was taken to
and it said that he prayed for him and
he I made so kufa was full of Companions
and many many companions came there and
there was was full of learning and um
it's where there's two schools of Arabic
grammar they originated in kufa and
Basra which was close by uh so he was um
he was born there Abu hanifa was born in
the city of kufa
um to a uh influential wealthy and
influential Persian family they were
cloth Merchants
um and uh and yeah so that's where um
that he would have met at some point in
his life the reports were that he
actually met some of the companions
themselves these are actual people who
knew the prophet had seen the prophet
who died upon Islam they actually knew
them or met them at least at when he was
young so they they used to have the
scholars of Hadith they have conditions
for narrating Hadith and they differ so
if there's some hadiths that are
narrated by companions who are children
so Abdullah and Abbas
um there's a famous Hadith the prophet
saws had him sitting behind him on a
camel and uh he said to him oh little
boy I'm going to teach you some words to
remember them and you know be conscious
of Allah Allah Allah will take care of
you so uh the
um famous Hadith but the point here is
that he's a young boy and so there's
many Hadith that are narrated by
Companions and they heard them when they
were young children eight nine ten years
old and that's even Malik one of one of them
them
um but the and so they did that but in
the next in the succeeding Generations
when somebody would come and say that I
heard the prophet say this then in the
Next Generation the scholars of Hadith
they differed regarding how old
somebody needs to be in order for them
to be able to narrate because it's now
now it's an abstract thing in the lives
of the companions it's physical you
remember and it's the most important
person in existence but I believe just
some ordinary child he was an
exceptionally gifted uh and talented
person so he could what I've understood
uh and appreciated what was happening
when he met these eminent personages the
companions of the Prophet I'm just
saying it's not like just some random
child yeah a formidable mind
yeah so it was he he met he met some of
the companions towards the end of their
lives but he didn't he didn't narrate
Hadith from them for this reason because
the people of kufa they said you have to
be 20 years old uh in order for you you
have to hear something when you're 20
years old in order to be able to
um narrate it
to the Next Generation so in terms of
Hadith his his Hadith narrations come
from other from from uh people uh not
Companions and mostly from from not not
the followers but the next next
Generation but he met he met Companions
and I said Malik one of them as a child
that dates him also it dates him almost
the beginning of Islam basically uh yeah
the generation afterwards which is
incredibly early yeah very early yeah
he's the earliest of the four
schools then of uh Jewish Prudence uh
they typically didn't exist it wasn't
even the hanuki school uh early on so
this is before all the the Sunni
jurisprudence have been developed a soul
had happened it was simply extraordinary
individuals like
uh making their ruling doing their doing
their rulings and so on so this really
predates what we later understand as
they developed Sunni Islam exactly yep
that's right yep so [Music]
[Music]
um so how influential exactly was uh
Abel hanifa in his time I mean how much
of a leader was he
so um so he's uh
I think what used to happen and it still
happened to some degree but it used to
happen more
um is that if somebody is a religious
scholar and religion is important to the
lives of people around them then they
are naturally going to be in a position
of leadership because they're if they
say that you know just to take like an
extreme example if they were to say that
um nobody listened to the ruler okay um
didn't do that of course um but if they
were to say that then they would wield
influence people would listen to them
and they wouldn't listen to the caliph
because the caliph is not like the Pope
the caliph is not a
um he's not he's not he doesn't
represent the religion he his role they
had um
executive roles but the uh but the the
the law that they ruled by that law was
developed through a process of scholarly reasoning
reasoning
by the major religious authorities of
the time who were independent Scholars
and they had the support of the people
and so the caliph in order for him to
rule successfully he had to rule by that
law otherwise people wouldn't want him
in place so as Islamic ruler just to
clarify he didn't make up laws like a
modern role I might do and say oh well I
I is the role I would want this law and
that law he followed the law that was
established and codified by independent
Scholars this is the Sharia of course it
wasn't some other law so it was based on
Revelation it's based on macron based on
the Sunnah
um and so on and so on yeah yeah and so
uh so I think to a I think a better a
better contrast would be uh would be in
the medieval period in in uh in
Christian lands where the king he had
the rule of Kings like oh you explained
and so so it's so the the there was no
rule of Kings so they weren't they
weren't people who they weren't absolute
just they didn't say you know that the
Divine the divine right of kings like
Charles exactly Charles II uh uh
interesting I should mentioned Charles II
II um today
um today
um but no he uh Charles the first his
his father uh very much believed in the
divine right of kings and uh it actually
triggered a Civil War in England and he
ended up having his head chopped off
because he was so intransigent and
arrogant and he just he stood on his
authority as Divine King you know I'm
appointed by God you can't touch me but
that's not what the calip was like
you're saying the caliph isn't a
divinely appointed kid is a successor to
the prophet himself and is accountable
in some way to others or to the law
anyway to the the Sharia is that right
yeah so theoretically they were supposed
to be elect they were supposed to be
elected by
um by uh influential people so by the
time of Abu hanifa that election process
which happened at the time of the companions
companions
um and uh but after after that it turned
into a dynasty and there was hereditary
succession so but there was still a um
on paper
um a certain kind of
um people would install them in in into
and and the representatives of the
people who used to
um install them into government would be
prominent religious Scholars because
these were the people who were seen by
the caliphs to be to represent uh to represent
represent
um public will
um and it was like that and so this this
this created a a relationship
unavoidable relationship between the the
caliph and the scholars particularly the
scholars of sharia like uh like Abu
hanifa because
um if the caliph can get
um can get some uh some scholars in his
pocket then he can rule
um very conveniently and with great
power and great Effectiveness so there's
a so there's a move there's a constant
move throughout this this period of
Calis to try and do that and many many
scholars did end up going into their
pockets but they they didn't they didn't
um people recognize that and so so the
the scholars who became influential who
wrote books who were study who who who's
worked for studied these were always um
um
um or predominantly I'll we'll talk
about hanifa student uh they were
predominantly independent Scholars so
Abu hanifa for this reason he's very
influential he is the preeminent scholar
of kufa the student of the preeminent
scholar named Hamad and kufa is an
important administrative military
economic Center so people they all go to
him so when there was a uh there were
several incidents like this the most
famous of them is just after the Addison
Revolution so Abu hanifa straddled the
Umayyads and the abbasids and there was
a um the opposite Revolution was very
um bloody the first uh the first ruler
his um title is a Safa which means the
shadow of blood and he probably took
that title to
strike fear into the hearts of people so
you didn't rule for that long after him
he had his successor his successor is
Abu Jafar and there's a famous um
um
a series of events that took place
between Abu hanifa and abujah
he wanted Abu hanifa to be the chief
judge so this idea of chief judge is
something that's a later invention it's
not there in the in the time of the
companions but it's like chief judge
means that you are such a supreme court
so you have judges and then you have you
can appeal to to the highest level so
the highest level is the is the chief
judge so um Abu hanifa he um he refused
and there's many there's many stories
that are told relation there are stories
they're they're related through
different change of transmission one of
one of the famous ones it shows his wit
is he said um he said he apologized I
said I'm not qualified to be a judge and um
um
got enraged he said you're lying how can
Abu hanifa not be qualified and so he
said well if I'm lying then I'm not qualified
qualified
yeah so he wasn't happy
um he also there's
um there are there's another event where he
he
um he was
um so in this it was a turbulent time so
there's been a revolution and you're
trying to make sure that people listen
to you and um there's armies that will
execute and do all kinds of things to
make sure that that people listen listen
to the ruler so he made a uh a treaty
with with a an agreement a verbal
agreement with with a particular City
and he said that if you Rebel then you
agree that I can kill all of you and so
they rebelled and so he called a number
of Scholars to his um to his court and
so now you can understand why what the
scholars are doing in the court
um it's it's a two-way thing so on one
side it's that the ruler you know wants
to kind of influence them and show
people that that they're on his side but
on the but on the other on the other
side it's because religion is important
and the ruler knows that in order for
his he can't make law so in order for
his um decisions to be obeyed by people
he needs to have approval of the
scholars who people don't see him as a
scholar he's not seen as a pope no
people are not going to so um so there
was other Scholars who said that well
that's what that's what they agreed to and
and
um and so you know go ahead and do what
you want and Abu hanifa is um and
there's a Hadith of the prophet
salallahu he said that that Muslims
he said
um this is one of those British dances
he said that when they when they said
that they gave you they gave you
authority to do something that you can
never have authority to do because you
can't just go around killing people
without reason there's only very
well-defined reasons for
um execution very few high standards of proof
proof
um and uh this appears everybody he told
everybody to go and then he
um listened to Abu hanifa um but he
tried to make him chief judge refuse and
so to him this was
um an affront because now Abu hanifa
when he's refusing to be the judge and
everybody knows you know Abu hanifa has
refused you know he's not under control
he's just Outlet being independently
minded which is shocking yeah but also
if people find out and people did find
out then it's like a republic
did you find him and said no or the
caliph he doesn't approve um
um
yeah so it depends to ask for the
reasons why he said no but yeah the
implication could be that he doesn't
approve of the ruler yeah yeah yeah it
wasn't explicit yeah he didn't he didn't
explicitly say that but but people will
talk and so it doesn't look good anyway
so he was um he was imprisoned he was um beaten
beaten
um severely and he he didn't he he refused
refused
um to to become and that was some
biographers say it was the cause of his
death and this happened more than once
he did this with a with another
um with another ruler before him as well
um so uh so I mean so I think like this is
is
um what this shows is that this you know
this eponymous founder of the honey
School who's revered by the Muslims this
is it's it's there's no
institutionalized church that's been
bought out by a by a king and uh but
it's independent people
um not even in Arabian
um people there's some reports that says
that Abu hanifa's ancestors were slaves
but others his grandson said said they
went but even if he were uh just the the
the way that early Islamic civilization
knowledge-based uh Sharia based uh
civilization civilization worked it
wouldn't have been
um it wouldn't have been a blemish on
his uh wouldn't tarnish his thing he's
still he's influential so this it says
something about how um
um
um Islamic law Sharia it was um
developed and uh you know so I'm it's
one of um it's one of the reasons why I
I'm yeah I mean to compare what was
going on uh in Europe during this time
of uh the life of Abu hanifa and
historians have called this time the
Dark Ages this is the early medieval
period the Dark Ages in Europe and with
good reason after the fall of the
Western Roman Empire uh it was a time
Mark by great economic and intellectual
and cultural decline so the West is
really going into uh Europe I mean is
going to a very dark area at this time
when Islam is flourishing intellectually
and in every other way but one of those
interesting points nonetheless are
almost at the same time as Abu Neva uh
in 773 A.D used the Western calendar
um the king offer of Mercia now he was
an early English king talking a lot
about English kings at the moment trying
not to reference the obvious what's
going on in the world uh but anyway
um he minted a coin that imitated a
was the main coin of the Islamic empire
at that time medieval Islamic Empires
they were called Dinars and the
interesting thing about this coin which
I've seen it exists in London
um it Bears the shahada now this is the
Islamic Declaration of Faith so an
English Royal coin
um uh in Golds made of gold actually
says that there's no God but God the
Muhammad is the prophet of God and it's
on display uh at the British Museum and
uh it's extraordinary but why did he do
this I I think the center of gravity at
that time was so much in the Muslim
World commercially culturally
economically especially the the English
Monarch felt that it was a good idea to
produce uh gold coinage uh that would be
usable in the Mediterranean area but the
the coinage actually had the shahada on
it and uh you can just Google it King
offer o double f a coin and you can see
pictures of it online and it's mostly
remarkable that English Royal coinage
had the Islamic Creed the Islamic
Declaration of Faith so this is at the
time of Abu Khalifa of that just his
life by the way and I'm sure people are
saying you know like we should be like
the Muslims we should be free like the
Muslims we should have economic freedoms
like the Muslims we should have the
freedom to speak up to the government
like the Muslims do we should have all
and that's where all of their uh you
know their Islamic prosperity and
economic uh progress and scientific
progress It's it came from like it was
that's where it came from it was a very
um different time it was a very
different time yes they uh that's a
different story but how long sorry how
did Abu hanifa make a living exactly and
what was his day job if he had one yeah
so um Abu hanifa he came from a family
of cloth merchants and at this time you
know this is
pre-industrial Revolution
um cloth is a very expensive commodity
so in the fifth books
um that were written in the time of Abu
hanifa they actually had a section that
described what you should do if you
don't how how to pray if you don't have
any clothes to wear so which means that
this would this would happen because
people would only have one set of
clothes maybe they're being washed and
clothes and clothing is expensive it's a
very expensive thing so so he was a so
so it's a he sold luxury goods and which
means that he was a very wealthy man and
he used to um that means he didn't need
anybody in fact um he used to support uh
other people other Scholars and one of
the um one of the famous
um so there's a uh one of the famous one
of his most prominent students his name
is Abu Yusuf and Abu Yusuf is he goes on
to become the chief judge not like Abu
hanifa refused Abu Yusuf accepted for
reason we'll talk about that he goes on
to become the chief judge of Haruna
Rashid and but he during the time of Abu
hanifa was poor so he would come to the
the sessions of Abu hanifa he wanted to
learn religious knowledge and his father
would say to him that Abu hanif as a
well-to-do man but if you go and you
study and you don't earn a living then
you won't uh you know you probably make
your ends meet and so he didn't show up
for a couple of times and he came back
and Imam
asked about him this is another great
thing about hanifa how he was as a teacher
teacher
um so he he asked about him and he said
and he found out that he had financial
troubles he said I'll take care of you
and so he gave him a sack of coins he
says when it runs out then tell me but
but Abu Yusuf said that before it ever
ran out somehow he would find out and he
would just replenish it and replenish it
and he went on and he became one of the
greatest Scholars of his time and so the
and all of that is done
um you know just as in one of the
greatest acts of Charity of of uh
had a very interesting
um way of teaching so he he used to
teach in the mosque in the Grand Mosque
of kufa so at that time the mosques
there used to be
um bubbling with uh learning and and
religious activity so his story of how
he became a scholar is that he was
initially he was just a cost Merchant
and there was a famous Hadith scholar
his name is ashabi he saw Abu hanifa
spoke to him got to know him and he was
passing by and he asked him uh which uh
which people do you visit
he said that I visit so and so he
mentioned some cloth Merchants I'm not
talking about business I'm talking about
religious Scholars who do you visit he
said well I don't visit that many he
said you should and um and you know a
man of your intelligence and
um and your intelligence should should
study and this is what intelligent
people at this time did and so he said
that that uh sometimes people say
something it influences you so it
influenced him and he turns to learning
and he went through he studied various
things eventually he had his teacher
Hamad who was his
he studied with like 4 000 teachers
um that doesn't mean that he's studied
with him a lot maybe he just sat with
them once or something
um but uh but he had many many different
people he learned from but the person he
learned from the most was hammad he
studied Buddha for 18 years and he used
and he had a circle
um and people would come and they
narrate they tell that when the way that
he would teach is that he would there
would be an issue that would that would be
be
um an issue of of sharia of sacred law
that would be um
um
put out for discussion and
um and there would be uh scholars in
attendance and somebody would say well I
think it should be like this and
somebody else would say no I think it
should be like this and voice it would
rise and there would be debate and
everything and he would everybody would
have a chance and at the end when his
turn came he would
um he would uh he would give his own
opinion after listening to everybody
else's and everybody would listen to him
and then record what he had said so um
it's a very um
hands off kind of a teaching style and
encouraging people to think and come to
their own conclusions and many of his
students they they they are even after
they heard him they disagreed with him
and that was to be expected so it kind
of be cool
um there's
um that you have uh in books of hanifice
they talk about the Imam which is Abu
hanifa and they talk about the two companions
companions
these are Abu Yusuf and Muhammad
and they frequently disagree so when you
study hanafi you study this is what Imam
hanifa says and this is what he says and
this is what he's and this is the
reasoning for this and this is the
reasoning for this I can confirm this is
the case this is uh the first book of
Islam of the companions the kitab
al-aftha by Abu hanifa and um it's
basically a collection of Hadith
um and this is a Modern English
translator a Modern English tradition
and it actually uh obviously has a his
uh views on uh on various rulings uh on
how to live your life and so on but it
also mentions when um Abel Youssef and
others disagreed with him his his direct
students actually disagreed so you can
you can see uh uh I believe I said this
and then Evolution disagreed
um the fact that he allowed that or it
was permissible there was a certain kind
of openness and a tolerance of diversity
and disagreement uh amongst such an
abusive of course went on to become a
great scholar in his own right as did
the other student whose name I can't
remember how to pronounce yeah
he was a teacher of
so uh but one of the teachers but also
like you mentioned the pope and isn't
this like such a huge contrast so Imam
is not infallible
and he's teaching his students he's not
infallible and his students know that
he's not infallible and there's no so
there's no like infallible Authority
anywhere enforcing any any any any kind
of position but there's that there's but
there's scholarship and there's and so
there's the the best positions in a
culture of learning and intelligence and
inquiry and critique they win out
naturally and so what you end up
happening is you have you ending I have
having high quality um scholarship you
talk about this in a very kind of
layman's terms it distracts me how very
civilized all this is you know yeah
religion apart this kind of open
discourse of uh of presenting views and
having disagreements and you know you're
not kind of condemned or mathematized or
sent to sent off to prison and to be tortured
tortured
um it's very very similar and quite rare
I I don't mean in the world in the
history of religions it's not normally I
think what happens
um certainly not in the Christian Europe
where the slightest deviation from
Orthodoxy be it Catholic or later you
know Protestant Orthodoxy would land you
in severe trouble uh but here we have a
tolerance or plurality of opinions
um and disagreements which were kind of
institutionalized by the great founders
of these jurisprudential schools Abu
hanifa eponymously of course
so yeah
um sorry
yeah so I think that I wanted to also
talk a little bit about Abu Yusuf and uh
yes well I was going to ask you about
that I mean you said that Abby Yusuf
went on uh to become a judge
um for her and our Rasheed but this is
very different from the way of his
teacher and it suggests
didn't want to cuddle up to power he
wanted Independence but his his student
Abu Yusuf actually became a a judge so
how do we account for this change
apparent change in in Behavior so I want
to show you a book it's called
um it's called kitab al-haraj it's
written by uh Abu Yusuf the student of
uh of Abu hanifa so haraj haraj is a
kind of Taxation so he's written
the book of um collecting a certain kind
of tax
and he is uh he's telling I'm going to
read just a little part of the
introduction but he's telling Haruna
Rashid the caliph
how he can and cannot collect taxes so
there's there's Hadith of the Prophet
saws that um speak uh that censure Tax
Collectors Tax Collectors at this time
are evil people because you have the
king's divine right of kings and they
need money so they have their uh minions
who go and knock on people's doors and
say give me a bunch of money people say
no if you don't you're in the Dungeons
and the tax scholarship gets a cut so
the more he takes the more he yeah so
they're like these um these like the
evil people and this is how taxation is happening
happening
um so in the time of the Prophet saws
this is kind of like a tangent but it's
I'm extremely um relevant that uh
basically the only the only tax that was
collected was zakat and zakat was and he
wasn't allowed to take zakat the prophet
wasn't allowed to take the cat and it
was and when he would send people to the
Bedouin tribes and and and when they
became Muslim telling them of zakat he
would tell us taken from the rich among
you and returned to the poor among you
um so just the institution of zakat it's
it's just amazing
um Sharia wise and when you look in the
if you're very brief words what is the
cat for those who might not know what
what why is it significant so zakat is a
pillar one of the pillars of Islam and
it's an act of worship and Islam is the
only religion where almsgiving is an
obligatory act of worship so just as so
it's normally you think of worship as
prostration prayer but one of the acts
of worship that every Muslim has to do
is they have to take
um 2.5 percent of their wealth every
year and give it to the poor and um and
so in the time of the Prophet this was
um this was uh collected and distributed
at the state level and uh efficient
distribution but he himself didn't take
anything wasn't permissible for him to
take anything and it was well defined
and he would send people to collect
collect zakat and he would tell them
don't so they would they would pay zakat
in animals because it was a um ancient
Arabian society the most valuable wealth
is camel and so he would tell them don't
take the best camels don't take the best
cheap but take like middle middle
uh average moderate and then it would be
redistributed and it was like the
formation of a just Society
distribution of wealth basically from
the richest those who needed it most
yeah so in this in this time there's a
in the time of
um Abu Yusuf in addition to zakat
there's other kinds of Taxation mostly
on agricultural wealth
um and Mesopotamia is uh is uh like
agricultural Powerhouse of the of the
world in between the two two uh Tigris
and Euphrates in modern day Iraq of
course is where yes it is on the map I
mean yeah yeah and so it was uh it was
very wealthy in in this time if wealth
isn't in terms of oil but wealth is in
terms of how much agricultural resources
you control so so when so the Muslims in
the time of abusive they are in control
of this most fertile place in the world
and there was taxation that came to the
government and it goes back there's
justification from Hadith about the
amounts and stigmas of the companions
but the important thing is that he is
the caliph isn't
um sending Tax Collectors to arbitrarily
take any amount of wealth that he wants
them to take but he is uh there's a
religious scholar student of Abu hanifa
and Abu hanifa is a man of integrity and
so Abu Yusuf um carries that integrity
and he is he writes a book he writes an
entire book to tell haluna Rasheed how
to and how not to collect taxes so
here's this is an introduction and I
just wanted to read some sections from
from the from the from the introduction
so he at the top of the of this page he says
he said this is this is from a
um a copyist later on he's saying that
this is what Abu Yusuf may Allah have
mercy on him wrote to the the leader of
the Muslims
and so he makes
um he makes uh he prays for for him and
um and then he says that the Amir
he asked me to
put write a book for him that he could
act a Quran in uh in collecting this tax and
and
um and also on there's some zakat is
also in here in in in collecting all of
this and so this is this is very
significant so so what uh Haruna Rasheed
is saying you tell me
how I can and cannot cannot collect
collect taxes and so he's telling him and
and
um and so he he says that um uh and then
in in the in the in this in this in this
third paragraph here he says he said oh
leader of the Believers verily Allah and
all praise is due to him
has has has
um given you a tremendous position its
reward is great
and it's uh it's punishment if you don't
if you don't uh do it properly is the
worst of punishment he has made you
responsible for the Muslims and you uh
you you wake up in the morning and you
go to sleep in the evening and you uh
you you Allah Allah has made you
responsible he's going to ask you on the
day of judgment about all of these
people who who are under under your
charge he has entrusted them to you he
has uh made you their ruler and uh and
he you know he uh he admonishes him
um and he tells him to do good deeds and
don't delay doing the good deeds of
today to tomorrow he tells them to pray
and uh he says um it's just it's just
it's just it's just amazing and so and
and so and this he writes it and it's
published and people all over the world
and for the rest of human history they
copy this book which begins in this this
way and this second page is like the
next page after this it's just he's just
admonishing him and uh and uh and so and
he's he's basically he's placing um
limits on uh on what uh can and cannot
cannot do and this is publicized
everybody knows about it so uh however
she says hey everybody this is what Abu
Yusuf tell me to do and everybody I want
you to I want you I think I I think
everyone she was very different than
from uh his predecessors clearly uh so
the situation had changed radically
whereas Abraham uh rightfully perhaps it
was uh and wisely didn't uh you know get
in with the powers that be here uh with
Haroon we had a very different ruler who
was listening and wanting to to fear God
and to do the right thing
yeah I mean that's there's some really
good stories that are that are told
about him
um but I'm also like so I I admire him
I don't wanna I never want to be in his
shoes you know but um but there's also I
think and also that you should it's good
to have a little bit of healthy
skepticism too because at the end of the
day he is he does know that when he does
this he wins the favor of people so
um so there's there's going to be an
element of that too and inshallah he was
sincere and he's rewarded by uh by God
for for doing the good things he did
things where his uh people who came
after him there were some problems with
his sons
um but it went up and down but we had we
had good we had good good bad but but
the I think the important thing to take
away is that
um is that in this time when you have
this independent body of law making
scholarship that is independent of the
ruler and it's uh it it is people follow
it and the laws that they write are
actually implemented in society
um they they are natural
intermediaries between uh the masses of
Muslims and the rulers
um and rulers need to need to listen to
them they need to and so it's like a
check it's like it's a huge check on
power but what we have in the modern in
the modern age is that with the decline
in religiousness in Muslim countries
this whole institution I don't like to
call it institution because it's like
independent but this this whole group of
people that basically disappear and when
they disappear now Muslims they become
vulnerable to
um to dictatorships and oppression
absolutist Rule and uh and it's like
it's the loss this is how when when uh
when Muslim societies become less
religious and Sharia is less
um important in the lives of people they
um they make themselves susceptible to um
um
to being oppressed by and then you have
the modern State and modern technology
and that just adds to it
very depressed so um coming back to uh
Abu hanifa I mean so how exactly did we
go from Abu hanifa to the hanafi school
the hanafi school is the most widely
followed jurispodential legal School uh
understanding in the world
um today and it has been for many areas
of the Muslim world so how do we go from
Abu hanifa to the hanafi school
yeah so the the school
um uh the school it was
um it takes a while to develop
so what uh all of the schools they so
you have at this point you have figures
who are recognized
um as
for their scholarship by a society that
values religious knowledge and
scholarship so this means that only the
best names will come to the top and then
you have their students Abu Yusuf and uh
and uh
and others as well and then they have
students and then their students have
students and so there were other people
like Abu hanifa but over over time
uh the they were for the four schools
that we that are now known as the four
schools these are the schools whose
students and students and students and
students they they can it's a tradition
that continued the others they um they
died out people sometimes give political
reasons for it but I think I think I I
think it's just a uh it's a description
of quality and uh so over time when you
have lots of people lots of intelligent
people studying and congregating and
disputing and and engaging then the the best
best
um uh the best uh scholarly
scholarly
a compliment accomplishments come to be
recognized and then a school develops so
so around this you have student student
student at every stage there's critique
there's Improvement there's organization
and then you have summaries so somebody
come there's this huge um you know
hundreds of people who have
um opinions within the school it's you
know they agree they disagree and then
somebody comes and they summarize it and
they say that if you want to
um study this way of uh of deriving
legal rulings then start with this start
with the basics and then do this and
then do this and then do this and then
you'll you'll come to a book like
that you were showing of Abu hanifa and
that this becomes a it becomes a school
um over um
um
um over the centuries
and as a plural actually opinion it's
not like everyone has the same view
right from the beginning we have abuse
of disagreeing who's a disciple or
companion or student of uh for
disagreeing with his master so you get
the sense of plurality and diversity of
views within a school
yeah yeah okay so um I've heard uh
Muslims today uh say that Abu hanifa was
weak in Hadith uh what's going on there
well Jesus held up a book of Hadith you
know so
um ascribe to him yeah so Abu hanifa I
think um from the he was a very uh
influential man a very intelligent man
with many students he solved many
problems and he was an original creative
thinker and from the earliest of times
um there were people who um
um
there were some Scholars of Hadith
um IBN headband is one of them and some
others who criticized him
um based on Hadith saying he was weak in
Hadith and didn't have knowledge and it
seems to go against um
um
some Hadith that they knew they didn't
understand how he
um how he came to his conclusions to
come to a conclusion he needed a lot
more than Hadith you need um there's a
whole methodology of which Jihad that uh
that you need so they weren't as
qualified as him but they were good in
in in Hadith and so they they made
certain statements and these statements
came to be transmitted over the ages
um and uh they were when the schools
developed nobody really paid attention
to them but in recent times uh there's
been all of these old statements have
kind of been dug up and
um so to me it's like uh it seems uh you
know it's it's like I think an example
that I sometimes use is you know if
somebody comes and says that says to you
that well this fear theory of relativity
is a really crazy Theory it means that
if you're going really fast time will
will will travel at a different speed
for you than it does for a normal person
and so and so you know how can you be so
um silly and and uh and you know don't
use your mind and just reject this so we
immediately because of our regard for
the authorities of Science and physics
and Einstein we dismissed this
um but uh but what's happening here is
that I don't think I think that we we no
longer have a an appreciation for the
scholarship of people like Abu hanifa
and because of that we become
susceptible to um uh being influenced by
these kinds of objections I would
recommend somebody they want to learn
the hanafi school and Hadith and how it works
works
um I have a friend a young British scholarship
scholarship
he runs um irshad irshad irshad.co.uk
um and he teaches um hanifi hanafi
studies there
um I um highly recommend that for everything
everything
Oxford University in some way
um he had students from there but he's
he has his own independent uh
institution where he teaches yeah thank
you maybe I'll give you the link and you
can put it in there yeah that's a good
idea actually because I'm not familiar
yeah with his work unfortunately I'll
put it in description below so people
can investigate that further hanifi
School Hadith skull I should say in
Britain uh in today's world so uh the
tradition uh lives on of course so well
thank you very much uh Sheikh Hamza
karamali uh for your time and your
knowledge uh and expertise on this
subject very interesting subject very
important and I hope this will lead to
Greater interest in people to explore uh
The Works of the eponymous founder of a
hanifi school and of course there are
three other schools as well let's not
forget that came that came later as as
well so uh thank you very much sir thank
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