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#AEBF25 | Day - 3 Improving the Bankability of Clean Energy Projects | ASEAN Centre for Energy | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: #AEBF25 | Day - 3 Improving the Bankability of Clean Energy Projects
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This content highlights a collaborative learning approach designed to bridge the gap between industry practitioners, bankers, and academia to foster greater understanding and facilitate financing for emerging opportunities, particularly in green and sustainable projects.
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finance trainings program that we
actually work together with the
regulators, the banks, universities and
the partners to design a structured
learning pathway to help banker identify
and captures the emerging opportunities.
Yeah. So during our training sessions in
the past few years, what we observe is
we see the disconnections. Yeah. the
disconnections about on the industry
practitioners where they always claim
that the bank doesn't understand me.
Yeah. The banks always turn down
[clears throat] our projects. Yeah. And
for the bankers uh we also see they
always have a um uh argument saying that
um we cannot see any bankable and
scalable projects in the market. And a
lot of bankers also complain that my
client don't understand what I'm talking
about. uh so they are not willing to
transitions right so we see the
disconnection throughout our observation
of trainings through the banks and also
some of their clients so this is where
we think the disconnection is about lack
of understanding the mutual
understanding for both of them right so
yep so these are the pain point that uh
we figure out so the project develop
struggle to prove the physibilities and
cash flow to the financial year where
the bank's penpoint are lack of
consistent data, unclear risk profile or
the thing is very small or sometimes
it's just a oneoff project. Yeah. So
then uh back to relate to our session
here we're talking about how to improve
the bankability. I would tweet it is
more to how to make uh the readiness for
bankability. Yeah. So um a bankability
just recap is actually for the project
how you can give confidence to the
bankers that they're willing to fund you
right how you give the confidence to
them. So um there are the few things
that to prove that uh the technical
physibility okay and commercial
viability financial strength and
governance. So it's about always is
about how to derisk your technology to
ensure your cash flow visibility and
abiding taxonomy alignment from the
start. Yeah. Okay. So this is where uh
after our observations we uh carve out
this collaborative learning approach
where we found out that re previously a
lot of training is purely very siloy.
The energy sector have their own energy
sectors trainings. So the finance sector
have their own finance sectors training.
So this is where we cut off the
collaborative trainings that we include
the industry peoples we include um the
uh the regulator the policy the
universities uh academicians to cough up
co-develop programs that can make
everybody uh can speak the same language
right so uh we will call oursel as a
bridge to connect those academia
industry and finance to equip our
financial the bankers to have better
knowledge Yeah on to access theories. So
the unique of this is actually um yeah
this is how we connect it. So yeah this
is uh some of the highlights in this two
years uh for this collaborative uh
trainings approach we have been trained
more than uh 10 leadings bank and more
than 50 sessions uh about them how to
identify the opportunity the risk how to
structures the loans okay and how
importantly how to engage with their
clients right so these are some of the
programs that we have been uh uh uh
developed so these are the one that
certif certification program is
currently we are being we are trained a
lot of our bankers especially the
frontlininer that equip the knowledge
and skill right uh we call it green
financing advisor GFA we have GFC in
Singapore and then we have a green
finance expert for the uh yeah in
Singapore so and another one is because
of the requirement from our Malaysia
central bank to conduct the due
diligence so the taxonomical right so
these are some of the banks that we have
been trained especially for the
sustainable finance finance uh majority
in Malaysia's and throughout the journey
what are the output the transformation
output we we realized that banker have
now become more confident and more
creative to uh engage their client on
energy transition and sustainability and
developers the project developers and
innovator now also like better
understand how to make their projects
bankable what language should I tell my
bankers right to get my project readily
yeah bankable readily
So for the academia and consultant who
have began they learn how to align their
research to make it more become a
financial needs more commercial levels.
Yeah. So these are some of the photos
and case studies that we share like this
is one of the program that we conducted
for RB the GFA. So yeah you can see park
here. Later we can invite Cypark here to
share how they engage with the uh
bankers and what question the bank would
like to ask him. Okay. So and at the
same time the banker also have the
chance to really understand what are the
real challenges yet that the the
industries is facing okay how they
manage their risk and the funding as
well. So yeah this is Saip yeah we have
one Narza here later she will be one of
our speaker as well. So and we also have
this because of this collaboration uh
partnerships right we also have a lot of
opportunities that our trainer our pool
trainer also have the opportunity to
visit the site like the waste to energy
plant invited by scark okay like Huawei
okay uh in Shenzhen to understand more
about energy storage system the risk and
so on so this is where we able to really
have the practical real case study that
when we give the trainings to our
bankers right so This is also one of
something very interesting. We're able
to if the causes conducting in some of
the green building yeah especially in
our buildings right is which is a green
building certified. So uh while they are
learning the theories about what is
energy efficiency, they also have the
chance to really site visit uh practice
how to interview the buildings managers
and also yeah do uh identify what are
the green features right so they not
only learn from theory from broke they
also cited the thing and they're
experentiating it right yeah these are
some of the causes that we do the banker
now also like the engineer they need to
go to see all this Yeah, they learn how
to ask questions and so on. Yeah. So, we
also have uh as you know that um data
center is something that very big coming
in in Malaysia. They are actually one of
the biggest reveals in our regions.
Yeah. So, we also on board the data
centers uh industry practitioners to
come in to share with the banker and the
banker have the chance to ask a lot of
questions to them from that they know
where is the gap is actually. Yeah. So,
these are some of the uh things we done.
So this is uh the GFA program we done
from other bank then you can see yeah
they they really have the chance to
really experential it right. So this is
just some uh we even have uh opportunity
to bring a group of banks to China also
because they have a lot of these supply
chains the vendor is actually from China
they also want to know about yeah how
they manage and governance and and a lot
of things. Yeah. So yeah, so this is
about how we integrate the collaborative
learnings that combine finance,
taxonomy, technology in a structured
learning way that connect in the real uh
transactions. Okay. So these are some of
our coming soon um uh causes that later
maybe you can find out more. Yeah, this
is on our Singapore site. So what our
experience tell us that making a clean
energy bankable actually start from
people learning together. Yeah. So when
knowledge is shared, confidence grow. So
when confidence grows, financing will
flow. Yeah. This is what we believe on
that. So now uh allow me to introduce my
panel speaker to share. Yeah. What's the
journeys that we have go through? Okay.
So yeah, allow to invite uh Angus from
RHB group. Yeah. Group sustainable
officer from RHB. Yeah. Mr. Tan uh uh OB
Singapore. Um head of battery
manufacturings and energy storage. Yeah.
He fly in all the way from Singapore.
Yeah. So, Buano Arza. Yeah. The head
operations of sustainably cypark
resources brahhat. And also we have
associate professor Dr. Ho from UTM.
Okay. So yes um all my good friends is
here. [laughter]
Okay. Okay, I would like to um maybe I
would like to uh start with um
throughout some of the uh photos that we
see just now, right? Our sessions just
now. So maybe I would like to start with
uh Noraza. Yeah. So uh uh what are the
challenges that you see? Uh maybe you
can introduce yourself a little bit
about site park first and then you can
share about what are the challenges you
see as a projects. Yeah. uh developers
the area project developers and uh that
you've been invited into our trainings
right so what are the things that you
can see it can helps yeah
>> thank you Sharon good morning everyone
uh my name is Aaram Muslim uh I'm the
head operational sustainability from
cypark resources
um as you know that cypark uh we are the
public listed company uh since 2010 um
and our vertical
uh is solar energy as well as bio gas
biomass and we are the pioneer for waste
to energy. We only operated at in
Malaysia now. Um
so we have um our presence uh we have
from from Kaluples uh in also the
largest floating solar in Dong to Uban
uh as well as hybrid the largest hybrid
floating solar at Merchang. Uh we have
at Sik and also at uh Nis Milan and uh
Pontian for the solar. As for the biogas
we have a plant in Kong Gaja together
with biomass plant. Um as for the waste
to energy we process about thousand
metric ton a day. Um 6 600 metric ton
goes to the waste to energy and the rest
we have another landfield uh and that's
why our facility is called integrated uh
waste management facility. All right. So
um your your question.
>> Yeah. So uh no have come to join us and
giving a fireside chart way of
trainings. Okay. To our bankers to have
chance to know more about what cypart is
doing what are the challenges is doing.
So what are those uh things that
throughout these few sessions with
banker what is your experience? Yeah.
>> Okay. So um from this uh experience of
um joining the session with um the
bankers also with the academia like Dr.
Ho uh from UTM so we have gained a lot
of exposure. So now we have we can talk
um uh like the bankers I mean like
language now you can talk
>> language uh we have common understanding
and uh on the banking side so we
incorporate that in our um bankability
readiness process so when we even go to
the market we did that and uh I would
say that it really helps especially when
we did the onboarding checklist given by
the banks it's like it's a long list of
checklist I would say lots of parameters
but uh with this um collaboration and um
and the fireside charts uh really help
to really understand what actually uh
the bankers want what are their risk
appetite and what their expectations
from us as developers. So sometime we we
when we submit things we we thought that
hey uh they could read our minds right
but actually we need to give um a really
accurate evidence quantifiable it's not
just uh qualitative but again um
together with the due diligence so I
would say that um ASB ABS
[clears throat] sorry has done a really
good job in bridging um the industry and
academia to be on the same platform and
talking about the same thing.
>> I think the unique part for this session
is um is a small group fireside chart
means we structure it like uh they learn
the concept they learn about taxonomies.
Okay. And they coming in as a industrial
practitioner to share the real
challenges. Yeah. I still remember you
share a lot of like the elephants case
and also uh how is destroy and so on.
Yeah. So and I remember at the first
when she came right Yeah. She prepare a
lot of techn technical things right
banker is not interested into it at all
right [laughter]
banker just want to ask what question
they always ask you what question they
always ask you just remember
>> always ask about IRRa and about payback period
period
>> yeah I still remember a banker always
challenging how you make money like this
I got so many challenges and so on so I
think from time to time no also able to
get what actually the banker want to
look at the more that they come the more
that she know what to prepare and
recently I remember recently the banker
was say can we have a chat to sit down
and discuss more about this let's see
the opportunity the banker also see the
opportunity on that yeah that's from RHB
bankers actually yeah okay so maybe
later you can add on also so now I pass
to uh Angus so angus can you will share
from banking perspective right what are
the challenges for you to really
accelerate the financing to push for
these uh cleaner energies in ASEAN or in
Malaysia And uh what is currently RSB is
doing to support this? Yeah,
>> good morning. Uh thank you Sharon. Good
morning everybody. So um bankers get a
bad rap, right? So it's it's all our
problem. It's all our fault. But but let
me put it to you this way.
You know the I'm going to go back to
what back what banking is. Banking is
financial intermediation. So what we do
is that we take um surplus units surplus
cash in the market and we lend it to
deficit uh units. So that's the creation
of credit. Now a creation of credit is
important because that drives economic
activity. So you know for bankers do
provide an integral um uh aspect of
economic growth by virtue of financial
mediation. So whether it's green, brown,
pink, purple, it doesn't really matter.
Um financial mediation is a core driver
of economic activity. So now in order
for economic activity to be sustainable
and we talk about sustainability we
always talk about sustainability in
regards to climate in regards to social
but financial sustainability is equally
important for reasons I mentioned
earlier about what financial mediation
is is supposed to do. So in that regard,
we as bankers have a fiduciary duty to
our shareholders to ensure that there's
a return because once there is a return
on their on their investment in the
bank, it means that there is trust and
confidence in the financial system and
core to driving economic activity and
trust and and confidence in in the
financial system is equally important.
So, so by virtue of why the bankers are
probably a bit more diligent in terms of
asking questions on new projects is
because we have that fiduciary duty to
our stakeholders to ensure that they are
looked after. So a banker has a duty of
care. This is what we learn out in
banking school is the duty of care and
that duty of care extends far beyond our
responsibility of just lending money but
is to ensure that our stakeholders are
taken care of and looked after because
paramount to banking is the trust and
confidence that you all must have uh in
the financial system for it to progress.
Now at RHB um we are the fourth largest
banking group in Malaysia. Uh we do have
an ASEAN presence because we have
offices in in Indonesia, Singapore and Indo-China.
Indo-China.
Uh we are also very committed to sustainability
sustainability
um in regard to our commitment. So we've
set up a group sustainability division
which has just come into formation uh
this year and I run that group sustainability.
sustainability.
um out of which we have two very
distinct um areas. Sustainable finance
which is a core driver of finance and we
have sustainability strategic management
which drives our strategic positioning
within the sustainable landscape. Um we
set very very clear KPIs. Uh we want to
mobilize 90 billion sustainable
financial services by 2027.
Um and that clearly if you turn that
around means that we're willing to
commit 90 billion to sustainable social
transition projects in the market. So we
have set the money aside and we just
want to find make sure that they're
feasible and bankable feasible
commercially and bankable financial for
the banks. Uh and and to that end you
know we are putting our money where our
mouth is.
In addition to that, we've set ourselves
a decarbonization target. So it has to
be a purpose. Our investment in the
market or sustain market must come with
a purpose. Our purpose is to ensure that
we decarbonize because the bigger
picture is this that we have to contain
climate change to 1 and a half degrees
Celsius uh by 2100 in in order to ensure
now this goes back to the the money part
that economic activity is sustainable as
we know it. That's to ensure that we
continue to have social well-being. So,
we've set ourselves a 20%
decarbonization target by 2030 and a 96%
decarbonization target by 2050.
Admittedly, our baseline is not back to
when we started in 1900s, but uh to uh
2022, right? So, that's that's where we
are. Uh in addition to that, um you
know, leave nobody behind. So, what
we've done is that we want to uplift
communities. So we've also uh embarked
upon another target of uh ensuring that
there's financial inclusion for two and
a half million people or businesses uh
by the 2027 target. And then women in
leadership is another KPI uh that we
want to have at least 33.3% of women in
leadership positions. So very very
distinct four KPIs. So again that will
be the structure that we move forward
with. Now coming back to the point I
think KPI 1 and KPI 2 is probably what
we're going to talk about more this morning.
morning.
So yes what we find there is a gap in is
in terms of technological
um uh advancement or technological usage
commercial feasibility of the projects
and uh my bankability making sure that I
make returns for my stakeholders. So
those are the things that we're going to
have to uh juggle with um as a banker.
Now there is no perfect science to this
because sustainability whether we like
it or not is a new novice embryionic
part of our uh economic development. So
we are going to make mistakes. We are
going to be overzealous in terms of
asking questions and the reason for that
is not because uh we want to burden our
customers is because we want to ensure
that we're asking the right questions so
we're learning. So I think that coming
back capacity and capabil capability
building is important and that's why we
work very closely with the Asian banking
school uh to drive our RMS to to partake
in their courses to get certified
because as certification uh comes more
into play capability capacity building
becomes more prevalent uh then I think
that those ability to deal with
customers like Cypark will be a lot
better and more seamless. us uh right so
that's something that we're doing first
to ensure that we bridge the gap between
what I talked about earlier the other
thing is about automation we're looking
to actually ensure that um our loan portfolios
portfolios
uh the scope 3 emissions from there are
actually data which is credible so we're
working with some technological vendors
now to ensure that we automate uh the
extraction of finance emissions from our
loan portfolio to a credible uh platform
where we can use that data not
necessarily um just to keep it as a
record but to use that as a proxy for
similar customers in that bracket. So
that allows our RMS to identify that um
you know we may not necessarily need to
ask too many questions or BTubers
because we know what similar companies
are doing in the market. So we're
looking to actually enhance technology
and AI uh to ensure that uh we become
more customerdriven or customer ccentric
from that perspective. And thirdly it's
about the bankability of a project and
where we're working in RHB is on carbon
pricing. I think the reason why we find
that uh projects are not bankable is
because we're mispricing carbon right
and carbon is not just a carbon tax.
carbon is about the detriment that brown
financing is doing to the environment.
What's that cost? What's the external
cost? We don't know. uh but if we can
actually have a gauge in terms of what
brown financing is because of the uh
carbon risk premium then I think we'll
see that more and more RMS and more more
banks will be more willing to be moving
towards green financing because they
know that the physical and the
transition risk of brown financing is
just way too high for our stakeholders
to actually commit to. So three three
key areas that we're looking at and
again bear with us be patient with us. I
know you know some of our uh principal
companies uh find that there's too many
questions and so on and we don't then
some of our arms don't know but I think
it will have to be a progressive journey
for bankers as well. I'll stop here first.
first.
>> Okay. Yeah. I think it's very true that
uh what uh Angus has mentioned actually
our banking industry is working very
hard. Yeah. To really close the gap.
Yeah. So that's why um in the past two
three years that we start the trainings
we do see the banker is like forced to
come for training because they don't
understand all this thing is just know
that we need to do something until now
they want to learn more about it because
they really see a lot of opportunity and
also they are not only doing for themsel
they also to see how can they help their
client. I remember RP also they come out
something like the no one left behind
right you have all the solutions for all
your customer. So we do see the
progress. Yeah, like you said, please
bear with us. We are working very hard
now. Yeah. To close the gap. Yeah. Then
uh I will pass on to uh Dr. Ho. Uh he's
actually one of our core trainers that
at first when I meet him, he tell me so
many kilowatt per hour stories that I
don't understand like infra is also one
of our trainers here. I tell him I I
banker is not interested to how to
calculate your kilowatt per hour things
that he also find very difficult to
understand what you actually want.
Right? So we work together, we evolve
and the banker has also become a trainer
to train them as well, right? So what
you want to share? Yeah.
>> Um okay. Yeah. So um just to introduce
I'm from UTM. Okay. So uh my expert is
on renewable energy and energy
management. So I did a lot of studies
regarding all this system. So um that
time when Sharon came to me here I'm
going to talk a little bit on how we
actually designed the course to try to
close the gap. So when Sharon came to
me, he was asking me to deliver this um
solar energy uh course. So my slide was
very technical, [snorts] right? It's
showing you all the efficiency, how to
calculate them, the radiation, you know,
do all that. Then when Sharon looked
over the slide, it's like I don't
understand what you're doing. And then I
asked her back, then what do you want
from me? [laughter] Right? This is the
course that I deliver in my university.
And I thought you know as a banker if
you really want to understand a
technology you need to understand all
these technical backgrounds and all
these basis for you to successfully
evaluate them. But you know as times
goes by when we communicate more and
then we did the delivery the first round
actually we we have a lot of
improvement. The first time I deliver
until now my approach is actually
different. So I think the first thing is
I try to put myself in the shoe of the
bankers like what they actually need to
know because yes like Sharon said they
don't need to know the technical things.
I think one thing that the industry when
they send in their application the
concern of the industry actually is like
how will this project works right that
is the main thing that you are trying to
show that this project actually worked
but for the bankers like to me they're
looking for how this project can last
right you don't want a white elephant
project you don't want a project that is
susceptible to a lot of risk but this is
the disconnection where the industry
sometimes they
tell you the picture on the risk aspect
like what is the factors that can affect
this project how it may fail and what
are the mitigation plan behind it. So
these are the things that when we design
it we start to incorporate which is why
when I deliver the course I always
relate back to some of a real life
scenario and what are the problems that
has been done before which is I think
what mentioned by Mr. Angus just now
that you are currently developing a
system where you have existing cases. So
the RM now can refer to those cases and
then they can use that as the basis to
increase the confidence of their financing.
financing.
So that that is where I come in right I
start telling them stories like okay if
you do this from some previous project
they face some problem. So for example,
one of it is like last time when we
talked about solar financing when they
do the fee in tariff like a businessman
will always use the cheapest land which
is agriculture land but a solar project
is not agriculture. So technically it's
illegal to do that but now now you can
do that because the government put some
condition where they can provide you a a
special permit to build it. But that
that was the situation. So there was a
plant that I know they they got the
plant demolished like partially then
only then they change again. So this
type of little things right this is what
bankers want to know right. So what are
the problems? So when we designed the
time we came out with the we still
include those technical terms but in a
very simple format that they can
understand like these are the minimum
requirement for you to at least know how
this thing works and then
>> because banker like checklist check box
so I tell him you don't tell so many
thing you just tell summary how many
thing need to do and check and ask right
>> yes yes and another one is the
documentations right because they need
proof if someone going to tell you oh my
plan is going to be all right for the
next 20 years will you believe that them
or not? Right. So I think the banker was like
like
>> yeah but but but I think the banker
banker wells all documentation is all
good and all that but we do run our own
due diligence. So what we do is that we
see who the offtaker is and you're right
uh prof because when you say that we
want to see whether the the project will
last whether but but for bankers it's
giving a loan is be the ability to repay
right so we don't mind giving 90 billion
loans as long as we know that we can
there's visibility in terms of that
repayment schedule we know that the
offtaker is credible so every time when
we look at project we have say TNB
behind it or we have Petronus behind it
or we have a strong offtaker behind it
and we can see that the contractual um
obligation of the offtaker is 10 20
years in the future. We know we are safe
and so we know we're more willing to
actually provide um money to that. The
trick is for us as bankers is to do the
supply chain to how well are we going to
be able to u provide financing for the
lesser credits. So in RHP what we do is
that we've created this thing called the
ecoycle the ESG ecos. So what the
ecoycle is is that when we do a credit
assessment there it's it's a it's a dual
credit assessment not just on credit but
on the on the maturity profile of the
customer from an ESG perspective whether
they're um uh emerging progressive or
advanced. So by virtue of that we can
then decide okay well this guy may be
emerging so he's more you know whilst we
can give him a loan and we know what the
repayment schedule is but there's an
opportunity for us to also offer him a
bespoke uh transition pathway so that he
can actually then transition uh during
the course of the loan with us. So we
will give him um incentives but we'll
also um expect him or her uh to
transition in a way that we feel is
progressive and purposeful uh towards
more greener activities. So it it is
something that we work on both. So our
credit assessment papers now include an
ESG maturity profile as well. So um
that's that's where we are with that. So
it isn't because of documentation.
documentation is sometimes not worth the
worth the paper that is printed on but
what we do is that we look at the
repayment schedule and that's why as
bankers we have so many other things
that we look at we look at the security
that being offered uh we look at the
potential business plan we also run
analysis through AI now thankfully that
you know how how feasible is the
projected commercialability of that
project so yeah there are various
measures that we can use now but it's
getting everything together and yeah so
yeah so to that point Dr. Prof um you
know it's it's something that we look at
but we do run our own diligent as well
>> so thank you very much Mr. Angus. Yeah.
So I guess that that is the thing where
the technical side and the banking
industry there's a not miscommunication
but there's a gap in communication.
Yeah. Because initially when I started
teaching I never thought of all those
things like the plan you know how to
gain the confidence. So when Sharon was
talking to me I like okay Sharon can you
explain to me exactly what you're trying
to say? Yeah. So I I think I will stop
for now. But basically this this is what
we had is actually trying to put the
technical terms as simple as possible
for the banker to understand so they can
use it back and translate it into what
they need in order to plan properly the
financial and everything. So yeah
>> so it means like it says improving the
readiness of bankabilities to close the
gap on it. Yeah. So actually for
educator perviews right what can you do to
to
improve the what what would you plan to
do can make all our life more easier
researchers and educator here
>> um I think what I was planning to say is
actually very similar to what Mr. Angus
has already mentioned because I think as
an academician sometimes we are in this
whole chain as a third party that is
neutral right we are not specifically
biased toward the banking industry or
rather the indust the industry
themselves so here I was thinking you
know is actually if you want really to
close the gap so the academician can
create a platform but of course with the
support from the government because it
has to be kind of a top- down initiative
where we can gather all this information
regarding existing project emerging
technologies and emerging technologies
into that point is actually the most
tricky thing because green technology
evolve every day today for solar you are
talking about previously monoristalline
poly crystalline now it's
monochristalline now you're saying
bacial and somebody else is now talking
about peroskite so what are they I
[laughter] guess you may not hear of all
these terms right so when it comes to
this they need someone that they can
refer to which I believe actually they
do have now as a technical expert in the
bank. So they do execute their due
diligent to understand the technology
but sometime if it evolving too fast is
difficult and as an academician that is
where we are the forefront of this
technology evolution because that's what
we do our bread and butter which is to
study and improve this technology. So if
we can have this ecosystem where they
can refer to us in order to get
information on how good this project can
be and maybe to evaluate those type of
technical reports that the industry
provided to them so that at least they
know okay this is a third I mean it's a
neutral view on whether is it really
feasible or not something like if you
talk about like land like we have land
valuers so you can trust those reports
saying that yes but for green technology
at the moment there is none but I do
understand that the difficulty of that
is because there's just too many things.
We're talking about waste management. We
are talking about renewable energy,
energy efficiency. There is just a very
big scope. But I do think this is
something that we maybe need to start
even if it's small. Yeah. And this could
actually helps in terms of the
bankability and the project development
in Malaysia. Yeah.
>> No, I sorry I I don't want to hog the
limelight here, but the thing is I
agree. Yes. Okay, I agree with that
because what we do in RHB is that what
we've done and under sustainable finance
is that we've we've actually hired
renewable energy specialists to say that
they're not bankers but they're there
but they they need to be able to
actually provide some diligence in terms
of the projects that we're supposed to
finance. Now at the same time we as
bankers we are teaching them how to be
financiers as well. So we send them to
the AICB for
>> they want to learn how to read financial
statement. there's another type of
training that we need to train
>> but but I think that I don't think we
should um you know in the space that
we're in sustainability we should beat
ourselves up and saying that we don't
have the we don't have the technology or
we don't have the capac capacity or
capability we don't because it's it's a
new market and I think that we have to
accept and uh and and and understand
that you know this is obviously going to
be a learning journey for both the
bankers the industry you know the
academicians as well because the data
points have not been formed formed. But
I think there'll come a day when
sustainability will be embedded in
banking. It'll be mainstream banking.
More and more people will be more sustainabilitydriven.
sustainabilitydriven.
So this will be second nature. But we
have to start somewhere. I think the the
problem at this point in time is that
we're not starting. We have to start.
And I think if you start that's already
uh to me a good thing, right?
>> Okay. So yes, thank you Angus for that.
So yeah, we have to start somewhere that
I but I think I I truly see the progress
is really going on now compared to the
past few year. So we talk about emerging
technologies actually we are happy to
have uh Mr. Tan here from Yobi. He's um
they specialize in this um battery
storage system. Yeah Mr. Tan will you
like to share more? Yeah.
>> Yeah. First of all I want to say a big
thank you to uh Sharon and the ABS team
uh for inviting uh me here and a
privilege uh to join the panel. I think
as kudos to them especially to bring
together academia industry player
financials and I guess uh sort of
incorporating the policies regulators to
sort of bring up uh enable this platform
for cross exchange of ideas uh upping
the game uh not just for Malaysia but uh
hopefully in the Assean region uh to
accelerate uh the pace towards
sustainability. Uh in fact we are at a
crossroads and all of you might have
heard uh read in the news the Assean
energy ministers yesterday have just
endorsed uh uh for Assean uh uh to
collaborate accelerating towards 45% of
green energy sort of uh power mix uh in
the next 5 years and this actually uh uh
here today uh talking here today I think
hopefully the ideas that we have today
will generate ripples that eventually
will cause waves to help us propel
towards that direction. Now, also from a
uh uh UB standpoint, uh very fortunate
uh UB just celebrated our 90 year
celebration uh as one of sort of uh top
three Singapore bank uh in in the last
uh uh 90 years, we have grown a lot. Uh
in fact we have hoped more than 5,000
companies uh uh deploying 50 billion of
capital generating a quarter million of
job uh in the ASEAN region and uh uh UB
is proud uh to be able uh to be able to
play a role and uh uh help to sort of uh
uh move the sustainability effort along
as well. So uh three things I wanted to
do in the next couple of minutes. I want
to first also start a little bit more uh
uh high level on the UB structure uh
where I come from and a bit of uh
introduction about my background how I
can contribute to this and then I'll
dive into the technology. So as I
mentioned UB is one of uh top three
Singapore banks uh we have a strong
presence in ASEAN we also have presence
in the west uh in uh in North America,
London and Australia as well. uh we have
a double A minus rating uh uh because we
are in uh also strong in Asia Pacific
including China, North Asia where a lot
of course of the manufacturing of the
new technologies of stem from and with
the geopolitics that's unfortunately
rolling out now we see a lot of the
investment flow coming to the ASEAN
region and with the an increase of
demand of energy in this region we also
see again a push both a push a pull
factor for some of this new technology
to be deployed and at the same time how
some of this investment can be very
efficiently deployed into the area and
where how our bank will play. Now
personally I worked for UB for almost 12
years now. I spent the first 10 years in
North America. I was in charge of UB's
energy portfolio. Uh I mean prior to
that I was uh with Shell. I was actually
really an engineer chemical engineers. I
work in their value chain before I I I
joined UB. having learned the North
America sort of uh uh uh financing and
structuring. So uh last year UB sort of
extended an offer for me to sort of move
back to the region. Uh I was told that
the the region is uh burgeoning with
lots of needs for green uh uh and
emerging technology and I was fortunate
to be tasked uh to look at the entire
battery value chain in fact starting
from the EV battery covering to the
battery energy storage as well. So
that's the area and and uh that I have
been in. So a year after I moved back
when I first came back one of the first
duty and responsive I had was to visit
all the um technology players starting
from the manufacturers uh to the
assemblers in China learning how they
work and also sharing with them how UB
could sort of help them import the
technology and investment into this
region. at the same time also reach out
to the countries that we have presence
of Malaysia uh uh Indonesia, Philippines
where some of these technology are
deployed and in the last year uh life
and busy uh we financed one of the first
largest uh uh battery energy storage
project in UK and we also did
subsequently a couple of uh projects in
Australia and have learned quite a few
things about what are the structuring
that we can actually deploy and help the
market grow here. So now moving into uh
the battery energy storage uh technology
of course we see a lot of players we see
a lot of uh different uh structuring but
if you take a step back and look at how
the uh uh battery technology has evolved
uh some sort of trends that actually
help uh um uh such projects become more
bankable. So on the technology side we
saw how the battery technologies has
evolved so quickly that the uh life of
the battery has extended by leaps and
bounds. Uh the the degradation curve has
actually uh uh tampered somewhat uh
allowing the battery life to operate for
much longer and also with the potential
for battery augmentation to further
extend the battery life. Now when the
battery life is extended from a project
finance standpoint, you actually able to
depreciate it for for for a longer term
and therefore improving the uh uh uh the
bankability of such. But at the same
time uh when the battery cost uh uh
because of technology improvement we
also see uh battery costs also coming
down making it a lot more sort of uh uh
uh bankable uh to actually support the
intermittency of uh uh a lot of the
renewable projects. So a few things I
wanted to mention here as countries uh
as A assean energy minister sort of
recommend for us to push towards the 45%
power energy mix. Let's not forget there
are number of challenges. Number one
green energy the wind and the sun
doesn't necessarily or the sun doesn't
necessarily shine when we need it the
most. Neither does the wind actually
blow the strongest when we need it.
Right? So as a result the intermittency
is a challenge in itself. And secondly,
for a very long time uh especially in
the Assean region, we have not actually
invested in the infrastructure in the
transmission and distribution
infrastructure. As a result uh uh the
infrastructure itself is under strain as
we put more and more renewables uh on
it. And thirdly, what we see is the
recent uh emergence of the data center.
We all all of us including the uh the
school now who operate on AI and Mr.
Angus alluded to bankers even using AI
to help with our analysis. Now all these
AI centers are huge power sync. They
need a lot of power but they need stable
power. They cannot operate on
intermittent power and therefore battery
energy storage plays a vital gap in a
few ways. Number one, it actually
provides uh uh a stabilizing effect
ensuring that the power is not
intermittent. it absorb the excess power
when it's not needed and release it when
there's inefficiency of power. Secondly,
battery also can respond very quickly to
any sort of uh emergency situation uh
where it can cause a stress on the grid.
So it actually provides uh uh uh a back
stop for very old uh grid
infrastructure. So a fast a sort of a
less capex intensive compared to having
to renew the entire uh grid
infrastructure. And thirdly, with the
emergence of the data centers, the data
centers actually like to be uh most of
the time like to be placed in an area
where there are lots of data flow and we
all know that Singapore attracting a lot
of the MNC requires a lot of the data
power and similarly in the north of
Malaysia where the industry park is
Pinang is also attracting a lot of DC.
Now all this draws in a lot of power and
therefore we see that the power was also
sort of uh uh sparking the need for uh
uh for battery energy storage. I mean
just half a year ago uh we saw how
Portugal and Spain suffered uh in an
unprecedented scale right because uh
they underestimated that intermittency
while uh the the whole European sort of
infra network is quite integrated but
when it comes to a certain sort of uh uh
power swing we saw that countries need
to protect their own power and therefore
when when that happens as a domino
effect they have a huge uh blackout and
unfort there's billions of dollars of
losses and that could have been avoided
uh with of course accelerated investment
in battery similarly the opportunity
here uh we heard all here about the Asan
power uh integration as a result of
Singapore needing a lot of power but we
Singapore is lack of space so therefore
uh building the uh uh uh solar plus or
wind plus best hybrid uh sort of uh
delivering power into Singapore. Uh it's
now sort of another driver for battery
energy storage sort of to bloom. Okay.
Now we want to quickly dive in some of
the uh interesting solutions that our
bank can brought in because uh uh in my
role I actually look across the energy
uh the battery value chain. I'm I'm
geographic agnostic. So uh that means
that I'm able to uh to work with my team
uh in different countries to structure
the best solution especially to
facilitate crossborder investment
because a lot of these equipment either
most of in China but in some in
Indonesia and now we have uh
manufacturers in starting to bring their
value chain to ecosystem to Malaysia and
Indonesia. How then do they deploy this
uh uh battery into the other countries?
We have internally uh developed a
financial supply chain management
solution which are tailored solution to
help uh projects optimize the capex flow
in order to improve the project irr. And
again because I look at the value chain
I work with the funds and when the
project IRR increases automatically
increase the interest of the funds to
come in and draw in the investors. I
mean case case in point we recently saw
how how solar west partner with
brokefield both our valuable partner uh
to help come into Malaysia to accelerate
uh this. So and maybe very quickly I
know I just want to mention some of uh
how in the mature markets how battery
storage could actually uh have a very
sort of complex structuring to enable
its bankability. Now the uh one of the
UK uh uh project that uh we financed uh
was actually based on a stacking revenue
basis. Now what does that mean? Uh from
an uh now here in Malaysia uh I mean
we'll be we have rolled out the first
inaugural my best and hopefully the
results will roll out soon. We all know
that the uh the the returns model is
based on a fixed sort of cost recovery
plus a uh margin sort of improvement on
its charge. Whereas in the UK where the
market is much more developed there are
three buckets of uh actually revenues to
it. One is actually the trading because
as and when uh with the uh volatility of
your power and with the enough depth and
breath of your liquidity of your market
you can actually do intraday intraday
intra hours or even on the wholesale
market trading. So the best unit can be
used to take in the power when it's
cheap and release it when it's uh when
when when the market and sell it back
when the market needs most at a higher
price. That's a delta arbitrage that you
could use. Now the second bucket is
actually the capacity market. You can
actually uh if you size your battery
correctly and with the probability
calculation, you can actually contract
part of your capacity of battery to uh
to to capture a capacity uh uh uh sort
of uh uh revenue stream that gives you
the base layer sort of to back stop your
your uh your return. And lastly on the
frequency response essentially it's like
your uh how the batteries call into
service when the uh grid is stressed and
you has various forms of contract to
sort of again st value chain. Now to add
to that complexity um uh what we also
see in the uh more advanced market you
can actually bundle this together and
then contract this capacity contract
this uh uh exposure for uh uh for sort
of arbitrage to a offtaker where the
offer pay a fixed price uh to the
battery energies uh storage operator and
then they will use this asset to trade
in the market. So that also increases
the bankability for the bank. So we see
a lot of this structure and as Malaysia
uh and in the region and the Asan region
sort of grow uh eventually uh we hope to
see some of this structure mature and
then having the knowledge how we
structure uh hopefully will benefit the
market and we can grow together.
>> Thank you Mr. Tan. So we can see that
every one of us play our role and we are
working very hard to get the gap smaller
and smaller. So yeah this is what uh we
we hope to look uh forward. So maybe is
a time I'm open for the floor. Do you
have any suggestions for us here? How
can we work togethers in a ecosystem? No,
>> thank you. I have a question here. Uh
I'm Puana from Puana Meta and what we do
is uh landfield diversion and recycling.
So my concern here is I'm very happy to
see the clean energy and all but what is
the end of the life of these batteries
and solar panels? Do we have the
solution and uh financial support? So
that's my main concern here. Thank you.
>> Maybe I can answer that. Um okay. Um I'm
the technical committee with Seda to
develop the guidelines for use solar
panel. I think probably it will be
published by end of this year. Um of
course um as the developer we also have
the same uh problem to tackle the use
panel um due to of course replacements
and um the inefficiency of the pen that
you have to do um you know you have to
change it and um sometimes when you also
want to go for warranty it's going to
take time. So some of it is being you
know um stacked and kept at the storage
at our site and hence um all the
developers has actually sit with Seda
and department of environment at the
moment. Um PV panel DOE did not regard
it as schedule waste. Um but we have to
still manage it because they there they
there are values right the the the
frames aluminum frames the glass can be
recycled uh to be the black powder and
can be you know uh recovered um for
other purposes. Uh so the government is
looking into um developing um guidelines
so that it can also cover extended
producer responsibility.
uh where the responsibility should lie
with the manufacturer. Uh-huh. And then
um to increase the value for circular
economy um they have identified um
Zenvirro one of these company in clang
where they could they have the
technology to recycle the uh USPV to
make it into um other products and it
has been authorized by DOE. So in
hopefully by the end of this year we
could have the guidelines ready that
help the developers and industry uh to
do the proper way on recycling of the PV
panel. Yep.
>> If it's okay I'm happy to supplement it.
So because I mentioned that I look at
the entire value chain uh especially on
the battery side. It's actually very
interesting that the uh uh from a uh
battery material uh recycle standpoint
some of the uh uh recycle payers are
able to recycle up to uh over 95% of uh
the battery material. Yeah. In fact uh
if you look at count's policy as uh uh
alluded by just now I think countries
are starting to also realizing the need
for that. Uh but I just take example for
China. I think China realizing the
potential to recycle. They're one of the
uh uh uh of course uh lead player in the
uh EV play uh and Bass as well. They
already actually put a ban on some of
the exporting of uh this recycled
material despite some of uh the very
strong recycled sort of setup shop in
different countries. So uh and even
players like Cat and these are public
information that you can look at. they
actually have a uh dedicated subsidiary
that will actually look at how they
recycle uh uh the battery material uh in
and and how they sort of complete a
value chain and uh and and make sure
that uh uh there's a circular economy to
that. Now the other part I also want to
mention I was uh I was also a panelist
at the global battery alliance uh last
year in Shanghai and um one of the uh
drivers the global battery alliance is
actually so prop as a strong proponent
which is already happening in uh Europe
is to mandate that new batteries would
have to have up to a certain component
of recycled battery material in order to
make sure that uh uh the circular is uh
economy is maximized. Now with that say
within OB we have uh specific ESG
solution uh that we actually work with
uh our
sort of clients and uh uh uh players to
help sort of finance and look at how we
can optimize the capital inflow so that
uh yeah when we say we use battery it
can be truly green. Maybe I can add a
little bit like uh for myself we have
been helping the Johaw state government
to come up with the policy on renewable
energy and actually one of the main
thing we are talking about is the
recycling of the panel. Um so just now
like they uh mentioned the frame and
everything right but the problem now is
we don't have a proper guideline like
during installation or during dismantle
how is it easy to separate them back so
at least that will help in term of the
recycling proc procedure right so we are
also looking into this at this at this
moment yeah so that is something that
hopefully in the future there will be a
proper guideline on how to do all that yeah
yeah
>> okay so thank you very much so at
actually is doing a waste management
challenge is also one of my uh friends
and clients. So you see with joining the
ecosystem become bigger and bigger until
the battery to the use battery how this
work. So I think this is a beautiful or
how the collaborative learning platforms
will really work and in a small scale a
targeted way. So I think this is
something that uh we we are just more
action here. We are just a very small
player in the ecosystem as a training
providers but we hope this can be really
uh accelerated and maybe as a lesson
learned from other Assean country. Yeah.
To work on with a collaborative way of
learning and we also welcome more
partner to join us as a ecosystem uh
learning uh partners together. Yeah. So
thank you very much for all the audience
here and also all our uh speaker here
for the insightful sharings. So thank
you very much. And now I would like to
invite uh my directors uh to give a
token of appreciations to orus speakers. Right.
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