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Black Women Are Doubled Taxed in America. There's Data. | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Black Women Are Doubled Taxed in America. There's Data.
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The content argues that systemic racism and sexism, particularly against Black women and women of color, are actively hindering their advancement and economic participation, despite claims of meritocracy. It highlights the "double tax" of facing discrimination based on both race and gender, and proposes collective action and community support as crucial countermeasures.
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I know we aren't supposed to bring it
up, but racism and sexism exist. And
nowhere is it more apparent these days
than in conversations about meritocracy.
[music] In the 11 months of Trump's
second term, the word was used as some
sort of antithesis of DEI when in
actuality DEI simply meant hiring
qualified people who came from under
reppresented backgrounds. But
nevertheless, [music] these discussions
of meritocracy persisted. And all this
time later, we can see the result.
Qualified, high-powered black women are
being purged from the workforce [music]
while people like this
>> in the tank. There it is.
>> There it is. [screaming]
>> Get promoted. I'm Aquila Hughes. This is
How Is This Better? [music] And today
we're diving into the cost of being a
So, we have this administration in
power. Yeah. Who is not I mean, you
know, the Washington Post, I believe,
posted their numbers about how it's the
whitest in I think at least the 2000s,
the whitest administration, even if
women overall are getting more placement
in terms of like appointments. Turns out
it's it's still real real white. Beyond
that, there's also the reality that
black women are leaving the workforce in
droves, whether they're being pushed out
um because they're the first to go due
to layoffs. But I guess if you could
just talk a little bit about like what
you're seeing in regards to that and how
that sort of lines up with the timeline
of you writing this book because I think
that obviously we're all talking about
employment at this point. The numbers
are down. The country is in a flop era.
>> What numbers? [laughter] Exactly what
>> what numbers
>> you know if you squint and you kind of
count on your own
>> I don't think you understand we're in
like I don't even know what kind of land
we in right now any analysis you're
seeing about jobs is based off of
September numbers
>> yeah [laughter]
>> I want to remind people of this not the
most recent numbers we're we're about a
week and a half maybe till November
numbers but we not ever getting those
October numbers. They told us that.
>> No, they said they say they were like,
"We don't have them and you're not
getting them and don't have
>> we don't HAVE THEM IS CRAZY."
>> YEAH, that's kind of their only job is
to tell us. And they're like, "Well,
we're not doing our job."
>> This is [music] Anna Gy, economist, a
PhD student at the Harvard Kennedy
School and author of The Double Tax: How
Women of Color Arecharged [music] and
Underpaid. And I wanted to talk to her
because the numbers, old and out ofd as
they may be, tell the story of women,
specifically women of color, being the
first on the chopping block [music] as
the economy continues to tank under
Donald Trump. And I would love some
numbers to back up my suspicions that
[music] it's frankly racism that's the
culprit. I'll say first and foremost, I
did not realize a book like this would
drop in such a political and economic
moment. What people don't realize is
that this book was actually supposed to
come out last year, so during the
election time. And I remember I think I
told my team to like push it a year
before that because we just needed more
time with all the interviews that came
in. For those who don't know, like 4,000
people had signed up to share their
story. We don't got 4,000 people money.
So, we had to like whittle it down
>> to learn and read and
>> Yeah. Like we can connect with people
after the fact. Everything that you're
seeing right now is really emblematic of
the double tax. And perhaps what I
should say is things are not great
because this country is committed to
bigotry. That's it. It's really not more
complicated than that. People like, why
aren't we Sweden? Why aren't we Finland?
BECAUSE THERE'S BLACK AND BROWN people here.
here.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> And if you actually look at the data
over there, it's not great for black and
brown people either. So I think that for
me this book is very much I like to say
it's both a prescription and a reaction
because when I was writing it I was like
okay if Kla Harris wins right then maybe
they might use this as a guide for their
policym but if she doesn't win
everything that this man does will be in
direct opposition to it. What I'm
realizing though is that communities are
trying to rebuild as things are being
destroyed and they still do need a
blueprint. And so I think that this book
provides one context and then it
provides some solutions that we know
work and some solutions that we should
really be radical enough to imagine
could work, right? In terms of the
numbers around black women, I just want
to maybe level set for people why you
should be paying attention to those
numbers. So this is um the work of
Katakaroy. Uh Dr. Valerie Wilson has
done work around this. Let me say
something that I know a lot of media
headlines won't say. The data never
tells us whether or not people get like
explicitly fired and why they get fired,
right? So to say that people are being
pushed out is a hard claim to make
that's backed by data. But we can bring
in other data to contextualize why a
bunch of people are leaving suddenly. So
what we know from the data is that in
the good times, black women are the
least likely to be promoted, the most
likely to turn over, and the most likely
to be labeled low performers. As you
noted, we are the last in first out. And
a lot of the industries like
manufacturing, professional, and
business services, and even we're seeing
with the rollbacks of DEI, especially in
certain parts of different industries
are clearly having an impact on black
women anecdotally. So, if we take all of
this together, you can go ahead and say,
"Yeah, black women are being pushed out
of the workforce." Now, you might be
wondering, as a white man, shout out to
>> Thank you, Devin. Deon, [laughter]
>> why should I care? And the reality is
because black women are taxpayers. Black
women are community members. Black women
are members of society, have kids, are
[snorts] trying to feed their families,
are literally plugging into our economic
system. If black women are losing, all
of us are losing because if black women
are not able to bring in an income,
often times other people are relying on
our income. And so it's not just that
you're taking money away from one
person, you're taking money away from an
entire ecosystem of people. And that
spills into [music]
whether or not the economy grows or shrinks.
shrinks.
>> It feels super important to reiterate,
you do not have a successful [music]
economy if a large part of your economy
is shut out from participation [music]
due to race, gender, or both. A healthy
economy requires people to [music] spend
money, which means they have to have
jobs so they can have money to spend.
This is not hard. The double tax is the
compounded cost of racism and sexism.
And I think that lots of black women
know this as misogynoir, right? When we
kind of bear the full discrimination of
being black and also being women. And so
what I basically do is sort of extend
that definition beyond just blackness.
>> Again, here's Anna Gifty. any sort of
proximity to blackness as a racial
minority puts you in this sort of bucket
of dealing with all of these costs that
come with your racial minority status in
addition to all the sexism that we
experience in society. And so I feel
like an example of how this really shows
up is let's say that you know as a woman
you're like having to get ready for an
interview. A lot of times you're
expected to look a certain way, right?
So you might have [laughter]
>> I I feel like this is so important now
that the pod is on video. Uh yeah, it's
a it's not just that I get to show up,
roll out of bed, and look like whatever
and people are fine with they're
listening. [laughter] No, no, no, but
continue just, you know, scrubbing my
paid with your fingers.
>> That's right. There's a even my nail I
don't know if y'all can see that, but
one of my nails is out. So I'm I'm out
here just trying to keep it down, right?
But my point is like there's a cost to
presentability that all women deal with,
right? And I mean that in the most
expansive way possible. But the double
tax says, well, black women, especially
and racial minority women by extension,
are having to do all this extra stuff on
top of that cost to really make up for
the fact that they're minorities as well
as women. Right? So the example that I
use is our hair. To give you a sense of
what I mean, I had to go somewhere
recently and I was literally doing the
costbenefit analysis of whether or not I
should get braids right before because I
was like, I need to catch my flight. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But the braids are going to take like 4
HOURS, 5 HOURS, BUT I don't know if the
ladies are going to go as fast as I need
them to go cuz they're humans, too. So,
you know what? F it. I'm just going to
go ahead and just throw it in some
little bun or whatever. and we're just
gonna pray THAT THE WAY IT WORKS
[laughter] OUT. BUT THAT'S WHAT I MEAN
it by like I'm having to do all these
extra calculations around my existence
because I'm a black woman. So that
blackness and that womanhood is that
double tax.
>> Absolutely. And you know just I guess
another question about the title. Can
you talk a little bit about why you
chose to put color of color in
parenthesis? Because you know, is that
because you think all women will be able
to relate to at least some of what you
identify or, you know, talk speak to us.
>> You know what? Let me It's the end of
the year, so let me just be real honest.
So there there's a couple reasons why I
think we went with of color. So
initially the conversation was whether
or not we make this black women are
overcharged and underpaid, which I think
that if you really read the book, that's
essentially what the book is about. But
there are some areas in life where
that's actually not the case. So, for
example, in retirement, I think uh Asian
women and Latino women are worse off in
terms of their retirement income than
black women. So, I can't say that black
women are on the very bottom of the
economic totem pole, but we are very
close to it, right? Or even in pay where
we know that native and Latino women um
make less. So, I think that that's where
it was like, okay, like like if we're
really trying to be accurate, I have to
use of color. But like this is the
number one question I've gotten from
black women which is like now grown now
why you just say black women. I'm like I
hear you. You know what I'm saying? I
hear you. And so I think for me it's
actually been a really good lesson that
like if I'm talking about black women
let me just like lean all the way into
that. And quite frankly too I was a
little scared because this is my first
book that I've written. I wasn't sure if
like women's spaces would turn away from
a book that was about black women. Turns
out even if you put of color doesn't
make [laughter]
>> Yeah. It's not really it's not really
you know what I'm saying. So >> totally.
>> totally.
>> Yeah. That's basically it. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> I mean it's it's really great to have I
think also your academic lens on this.
It's like there are the things that I've
sort of seen obviously in my own, you
know, personal life and I think
everybody who is a a woman of color or a
black woman or both or [laughter]
neither or whatever, I think that we all
have our anecdotal evidence to like um
what is systemic oppression, but like
having real like hard numbers is really
fascinating. And so I guess like I'm
curious because I think that this is
it's cool that you're the one writing
it. And so I'm curious like how much of
your own life or career shows up in the
book even in ways that readers might not
even realize. [laughter]
[laughter]
I don't know if y'all can hear me
snapping. Um is not new to this. She's
true to this. Exactly. Um, I feel like
there were times when I probably should
have been even more personal. And I
remember even seeing somebody recently,
this black woman author, not not author,
sorry. She's a reviewer, and she was
like, I wish she had said more about her
life. And I was like, man, maybe for the
memoir, I don't know, maybe I'll I'll
speak to it later. But I mean, I think
that there's stories that like when I
read them back, I'm like, this is a
really personal share. Like people in my
life don't know this about me. So, I
think like the first chapter where we
talk about beauty, a lot of people
didn't know that I struggled with like
thoughts of skin bleaching, right? So,
I'm a dark-kinned black woman and I
don't think my parents knew that I was
dealing with those thoughts. I don't
think, you know what I'm saying? So,
that's those are some of the things that
I think were revealed um in me even
writing the book and being like, wait, I
have to bring this into it because if I
don't, then it's an incomplete story.
And so I feel like stuff around my
self-image and my self-confidence I
think has been really personal. I would
even say, you know, a lot of folks
didn't know that I've dealt with so much
discouragement coming up to this point.
So a lot of people assume this was, you
know, zippity zoo zippity zay. It was
like a work situation.
>> Yeah. Exactly. It's all up.
>> Like no, I've had discouragement every
single step of the way, especially from
white men. And so like this is not
something that I'm just like, oh, look
at the the numbers. They're happening,
you know, hypothetical theoretically
over there, but like rather this is
actually my personal experience. And it
turns out the data really does back it
up. And I think at the end of the book,
which every time I finish the book, I
always cry because I feel like uh this
is such a release because I think a lot
of people, especially black women, who
read the book, are like, I knew I wasn't
going crazy. And that's like the best
feeling in the world that okay, all of
this data, this is what people in power
listen to, actually backs up the
experiences that I know to be true, but
now I can show them this as a way to
really provide the evidence for why
things need to change. So, let's dive
into some of the evidence. [music] Black
women make up 7.8% of the US population,
but as far as unemployment goes, we are
bearing the brunt of it right now, which
doesn't square with black women's
achievements academically. But it does
seem to square with that roll back of
scholarships for women of color and the
anti-Dei push. This is, you know, me
asking for your speculation. Do you
think that there is any correlation to
the sort of cracking down on not only
DEI but on who is getting funding for
college and scholarships and all these
things that are being looked at and sort
of, you know, hoping to hold back black
women and women of color?
>> Let let me be frank. These people are
enemies of progress.
>> Yeah. M
>> certified enemies of progress and
they're also eugenicist. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I want to be really blunt. They don't
think that black people, especially
black folks who are poor, are worthy.
Period. So, anything that evens the
playing field, they're anti. I think I
wrote a piece for Bloomberg maybe a year
ago and I said all these attacks on DEI
are not really about merit. Yes, they're
about merit, but what is that? Right.
>> Yeah. Looking around,
>> there's entire ecosystems around just
getting rich white kids into universities
universities
>> where like they're only going there as a
signal because they're going to work for
daddy anyway. So, I don't even know, you
know, what was the reason as Cardi B
would say, right? But [laughter]
like I think to that point, what I
really told folks was these attacks are
really about widening the racial wealth
gap and making it really hard for black
people to build wealth. They know that
home ownership is tied to building
wealth. Why is it that the two prominent
black women that they've attacked and
accused of fraud, it's always mortgage
fraud? Have y'all noticed?
>> Yeah. Actually wild. actually wild.
>> So, they accuse uh my my wonderful
Governor Lisa Cook of mortgage fraud,
and there's already documentation that
she didn't do that. And then they try to
try um uh AG Leticia James of mortgage
fraud twice. Failed both times.
>> Yeah. They keep trying it. They keep
throwing it. [laughter]
>> They're like, "She couldn't possibly
have a house. We did everything in our
power to make sure she doesn't have a
house." And this is really about setting
president around like, oh, like we just
don't think black and brown people
should own things, build things, be able
to have agency. And the crazy thing
about all of this, Akila, is what's
inevitable. And they know it cuz there
was a Brookings report, Brookings is a
think tank, y'all, that came out several
years ago. And basically what it says in
short, this place about to be black and
brown, [laughter] >> RIGHT?
>> RIGHT?
>> SORRY, IT'S ABOUT TO BE BLACK AND BROWN.
YOU LET US IN. [laughter]
>> The white folks aren't having enough
babies. So, the majority of the world
that we know is starting to seep into
the West, which is why you're seeing
intergalactic crashs from across the
globe. Basically, what they're trying to
do at this point, if you guys are
noticing, is they're setting up, I would
like to say, the pillars of what they
hope will become apartheid because in
about a generation or two, this place
will be majority minority, and they know
that that's going to be the case. So,
they're trying to radicalize their men.
They're trying to reprogram their women
and they're trying to set systems in
place that make it impossible for black
and brown people to advance in society. >> Right?
>> Right?
>> The reality is if we're willing to fight
against that, they have no chance
because we do truly outnumber them.
>> If what Anna is saying is true and the
numbers do support the idea that the
future will be way more diverse than
now, how do we fight for a more
equitable future?
>> How do we fight back? I think that we
can take our notes from history. Shout
out to the Black Panther gang. Right. Um
>> Black Panther gang gang.
>> You know, as [laughter] I said that, I
WAS LIKE, SOMEBODY'S GOING TO clip that.
>> Right. Here we go.
>> I don't care. THEY DID A GOOD job with
providing food assistance, health care,
and education to the black community.
That's what I am highlighting right now.
>> Yeah. Specifically that y'all can Yeah,
y'all can have your own conversations
about that. But the the social services
that they provided to the black
community, I think give us a blueprint
into how do we take care of each other
during crisis. And it turns out we
literally just show up for each other.
We pull resources. We protect one
another. You have a vested interest in
somebody else's well-being. I'm starting
to see that single mothers are starting
to buy homes together. That's so
intelligent. I think the other thing
we're starting to see is a lot of
unions. I don't know if folks know the
data show that the unionization has been
on the decline, but we're starting to
see a resurge of union efforts, right?
Even with mom's when we're seeing that a
lot of working family party candidates
are coming to the the top of a lot of
these tickets. We're seeing a lot of
folks who are progress
in the sense that they want free buses,
they want free child care, people just
want to be able to take care of their
neighbors. I think having that spirit
and turning it into action is really,
really important. I keep telling folks,
you got to go outside and touch grass. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You out here spinning out on blue sky is
not making the world better, >> right?
>> right?
>> It's complicating airflow. [laughter] Go
and do something with your life that
helps your community.
>> That's I mean that's fantastic. And like
I'm curious, I guess when you think
about future generations and what that
looks like, we kind of have two paths,
right? we keep going down the path of
more regulation against people of color,
taking away rights from people of color,
um women of color being more oppressed
and at sort of the bottom of this rung,
and then we have another future. [laughter]
[laughter]
Um, and so I guess, you know, you talk
about what people can do to fight back,
but is there anything you've sort of
seen more specifically like economically
that people can start thinking about to
plan for if they want families to not
have to exist in that? My plan is just
to leave, but some people got to stay.
[laughter] So, you know, turns out the
whole world is in America. So,
>> right, I would say Europe is about five
years behind the states at the moment. I
think what I said before still applies
here. Unionization should be happening
in every aspect of our lives. And that
is how we hedge against a future that is
not people centered. Right? I think that
um a lot of folks think that they can go
at this alone. And what you're going to
realize is that people who want ill for
you, they're banking on you doing this
by yourself. And so I think that you
literally linking up with other people,
you plugging into different community
groups, you investing in your community.
So I got like a letter recently in the
mail from my library system. I said, "Go
Books, right?" Like I was like, "Yes."
Because I was like, I I want to support
kids reading in the library. I want that
to be something that is a pillar of my
community growing up. So I feel like
that to me feels like really great
preparation. I think if we're thinking
practically, if you're in the workplace,
for example, you should be talking
openly about how much you're making
because I want to make it very clear
into the mic. I don't know where the mic
is, but let me make it very clear to
y'all. These corporations
don't care about you. I'm so sorry. They
don't care. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> They don't care if you die today because
guess what they gonna do? They gonna put
up an Indeed post talking about we got a
new opening. Isn't that what happened
with that CEO?
>> Yeah. STRAIGHT UP. NEXT WEEK
>> to that end like is there policy
analysis that you've seen that like can
maybe safeguard against the you know
this sort of downward trajectory for us
>> for sure I think one thing we need to do
is reduce the price of child care
literally the price of taking care of
the next generation needs to go down
significantly so we know the child tax
credit which is interestingly enough a
bipartisan supported policy is
definitely something that's on the table
should be a lot higher on that front
having public resources is be wellunded
is extremely important. I'm a PBS kid.
>> Yeah, [laughter] same.
>> Oh, I love it. Wait, what did you watch?
>> So, I'm I think I'm a little bit older
than you, but I was watching Zoom, but
it was like not the original. It was like
like
>> I was on the very tail end of when it it
went off air
>> and like majorly Sesame Street household.
household.
>> Okay. Period. We
>> Now I'm in the NewsHour game.
>> I LOVE IT.
Great news, by the way. They're so good.
>> Yeah, they get to the truth. They get to
the heart of it.
>> That's right. public resources, things
like Head Start are so so important. I
would also say too that I think that
worker power is going to be the future
and it's also going to be what I think
prevents us from living in a purely
exploitative and extractive world.
People just need to literally speak up
and be like, "Nah, I actually am not
going to pay that." I know we all see
the egg prices. They're preposterous. I
was at Roast Brothers the other day. I
just come back from my my little my
little European book tour, whatever. So,
it had been two about a month and a
half. The last time I was at Roach
Brothers, I went to go to Ben and
Jerry's. It cost maybe $4 a pint. I got
there maybe a week OR TWO AGO. $7
>> FOR ICE CREAM.
>> For ice cream
>> in this economy,
>> girl. I said, "Huh?"
>> They said no little treats. [laughter]
>> But my point here is that I think that
we as people forget that we're the 99%.
If we actually want things to change, we
can determine that future together. But
I think that that's exactly what
happens. There's a lot of fractures
because people want to be proximate to
the 1% or they want to benefit from the 1%.
1%.
>> They think they're going to be the 1% if
they just wait long enough.
>> But history has shown that that never
happens. And the only way that progress
actually comes to fruition is when the
people say, "Actually, we not messing
with this collectively." And so I think
those are the ways in which economically
we can protect ourselves to ensure that
some of the policy solutions that are on
the table like reparations, making sure
that entrepreneurs of color, especially
black entrepreneurs get access to
capital, right? Like these are all
things that are super important just to
let folks know, black hiring managers
are more likely to create jobs for black people.
people. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So that's why you want black entrepreneurs.
entrepreneurs. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Cuz they're going to hire black people.
They're going to hire people in their
community. So if they're not getting
capital to pay people, then they can't
employ people and they can't create jobs
for the community. So that's why all of
these things are intertwined. Ensuring
that our economic future doesn't leave
anybody behind. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Let me cut to the chase. How is it
better to strip women of color of
opportunity for advancement to appease
the last gasp of white supremacy that
refuses to honestly and earnestly
[music] compete? It's not. And the only
way forward toward progress is to
support one another. Mutual aid sounds
fringe to many, but sharing meals and
resources is kind of where the onus
stops for us as individuals to fight
huge systemic injustice. Obviously,
voting is going to matter going into
2026, and when we don't vote, it's those
on the margins who tend to feel it most.
So, let's do better this next time. Our
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