He's probably taller than me. Okay. Um, watch. He's like 5'4. I'm connecting.
watch. He's like 5'4. I'm connecting. I'm making it so I remember. Yeah,
I'm making it so I remember. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. Yeah, put that
that's what I'm doing. Yeah, put that over. He's a racist, which is the hate
over. He's a racist, which is the hate thing. Like I
thing. Like I um What was I? Uh oh. Yeah. Oh, I got
um What was I? Uh oh. Yeah. Oh, I got it. I just got what you
it. I just got what you said. Like he's racist. No, I don't
said. Like he's racist. No, I don't think he's racist, but he's taller than
think he's racist, but he's taller than me. Yeah, height. I got it. Height, not
me. Yeah, height. I got it. Height, not hate. Um, but like him, right? You have
hate. Um, but like him, right? You have to just keep saying the same [ __ ] Like,
to just keep saying the same [ __ ] Like, work on your research and then be
work on your research and then be married to it and commit yourself. And
married to it and commit yourself. And this is again, it's like not just
this is again, it's like not just following your whimsy and passion in
following your whimsy and passion in this case. It's discipline and like
this case. It's discipline and like committing to something even for all the
committing to something even for all the times you don't [ __ ] feel like it.
times you don't [ __ ] feel like it. And making yourself a little boring
And making yourself a little boring sometimes cuz you say the same thing.
sometimes cuz you say the same thing. And like also, I mean, the danger the
And like also, I mean, the danger the other thing is like the the willingness
other thing is like the the willingness to pivot and stuff where it's like where
to pivot and stuff where it's like where the danger is like actually commit to a
the danger is like actually commit to a message that might be wrong. That's
message that might be wrong. That's another one that's difficult, right? And
another one that's difficult, right? And that takes a lot of humility actually.
that takes a lot of humility actually. So the ignoring the audience thing is
So the ignoring the audience thing is like not just this like, you know,
like not just this like, you know, strike of light and inspiration and
strike of light and inspiration and above. It's also like subject yourself
above. It's also like subject yourself to criticism and evaluation by being an
to criticism and evaluation by being an object that stays approximately the same
object that stays approximately the same instead of like constantly revising. So
instead of like constantly revising. So people just like, you know, or they're
people just like, you know, or they're just different things rather, you know
just different things rather, you know what I mean? Um, but yeah, in order to
what I mean? Um, but yeah, in order to communicate something, you have to like
communicate something, you have to like just keep [ __ ] saying it. And that's
just keep [ __ ] saying it. And that's one of the things that I found in the
one of the things that I found in the Jordan Peterson research. I also take it
Jordan Peterson research. I also take it as like he's like a dark like inverted
as like he's like a dark like inverted shadow of my career in a lot of
shadow of my career in a lot of different ways. And that's one of the
different ways. And that's one of the things that I kind of found is like um
things that I kind of found is like um you know I've always had some people say
you know I've always had some people say like oh you say the same things or like
like oh you say the same things or like they get a similar value out of like me
they get a similar value out of like me you know um and so uh but but one of so
you know um and so uh but but one of so I you know I also try to take it as like
I you know I also try to take it as like a a lesson uh like of you know how to
a a lesson uh like of you know how to conduct yourself if you don't want to
conduct yourself if you don't want to become that like you know what to do. So
become that like you know what to do. So there's a few different like sides of
there's a few different like sides of that. Um, and I guess probably the
that. Um, and I guess probably the climax of that, like when they all made
climax of that, like when they all made themselves like really really embodied
themselves like really really embodied and clear was I went to see him in Radio
and clear was I went to see him in Radio City uh like in New York um sometime
City uh like in New York um sometime last year
last year um dressed like this, which was fun. I
um dressed like this, which was fun. I remember there's some uh I wanted to
remember there's some uh I wanted to talk to the people there and they they
talk to the people there and they they didn't want to talk to me so much. I was
didn't want to talk to me so much. I was like um but like it was just so
like um but like it was just so interesting. There's like So I want to
interesting. There's like So I want to say I'll say there's like three things.
say I'll say there's like three things. I'll like pull up three. The one was I
I'll like pull up three. The one was I asked the dude in line about like the
asked the dude in line about like the show that we just saw of like his
show that we just saw of like his monologue, his little sermon or
monologue, his little sermon or whatever. So, you went to Jordan
whatever. So, you went to Jordan Peterson's like live show? Yeah, it's
Peterson's like live show? Yeah, it's live show. His performance. Yeah. Yeah.
live show. His performance. Yeah. Yeah. Um and uh where he literally just goes
Um and uh where he literally just goes on stage and monologues for like a
on stage and monologues for like a sermon. Yeah. It's a sermon. Yeah. Well,
sermon. Yeah. It's a sermon. Yeah. Well, it's a sermon. It's a it's a lecture. Um
it's a sermon. It's a it's a lecture. Um it's what he it's it's his craft really.
it's what he it's it's his craft really. He should have a double basist
He should have a double basist like while he's doing it. What a what
like while he's doing it. What a what what comedian did that? Oh, Mitch
what comedian did that? Oh, Mitch Hedber. Yeah, Mitch. Yeah. Yeah, like
Hedber. Yeah, Mitch. Yeah. Yeah, like behind himself or as a bit on No, just
behind himself or as a bit on No, just behind him for the basis. He probably
behind him for the basis. He probably speak in more rhythm as a result and
speak in more rhythm as a result and he'd be like, "Yeah, the thing with with
he'd be like, "Yeah, the thing with with women is they had
it would probably change what he's doing more." And actually, it does speak to
more." And actually, it does speak to what we're saying here, right? So like
what we're saying here, right? So like uh and I mean so the first thing was
uh and I mean so the first thing was that like afterwards this is kind of
that like afterwards this is kind of like talking to a comment section and
like talking to a comment section and realizing a little bit of what's
realizing a little bit of what's happening like the service that Jordan
happening like the service that Jordan Peterson provides which is one of the
Peterson provides which is one of the reasons I wanted to do this
reasons I wanted to do this philosophical deep dive on him is not
philosophical deep dive on him is not actually like education sometimes you
actually like education sometimes you know a lot of time it's like what he's
know a lot of time it's like what he's doing is like um people are enjoying the
doing is like um people are enjoying the aesthetic experience of listening to a
aesthetic experience of listening to a smart person be smart and then that
smart person be smart and then that smartness that performance of smartness
smartness that performance of smartness just justifies their kind of political
just justifies their kind of political alignment. So they like him really
alignment. So they like him really because he fights the woke and he stands
because he fights the woke and he stands for sort of like traditional families.
for sort of like traditional families. You know, this might this is a very
You know, this might this is a very common type of fan. Um and then I asked
common type of fan. Um and then I asked the dude next to me in line. I was like
the dude next to me in line. I was like I was like, "Well, did you like the
I was like, "Well, did you like the show?" And he's like, "Yeah." I was
show?" And he's like, "Yeah." I was like, "What what did you what's
like, "What what did you what's something like new or interesting that
something like new or interesting that you like pulled out of it?" And he was
you like pulled out of it?" And he was like, "Uh I like what he said about uh
like, "Uh I like what he said about uh responsibility." And like it wasn't even
responsibility." And like it wasn't even about responsibility. That's just
about responsibility. That's just something you've heard him say before,
something you've heard him say before, right? His big sticktick. and he was
right? His big sticktick. and he was holding he was holding one of the books
holding he was holding one of the books like I think it was like he wanted to
like I think it was like he wanted to get it signed or I don't know what he
get it signed or I don't know what he maybe he had bought it just then or he
maybe he had bought it just then or he just took it like a Bible to a sermon.
just took it like a Bible to a sermon. Um but yeah that was interesting. Um the
Um but yeah that was interesting. Um the second thing and this is probably the
second thing and this is probably the whole thing really. Well okay no so that
whole thing really. Well okay no so that guy just didn't absorb the the lecture.
guy just didn't absorb the the lecture. I I I don't I don't know. Well, you're
I I I don't I don't know. Well, you're getting something out of it, but it's
getting something out of it, but it's not uh what you're getting out of it
not uh what you're getting out of it isn't actually like isn't it a little
isn't actually like isn't it a little bit depressing on some level to imagine
bit depressing on some level to imagine if let's say me I also I'm doing like
if let's say me I also I'm doing like live lectures and performances literally
live lectures and performances literally the exact same business model as
the exact same business model as Peterson. I was just thinking that yeah
Peterson. I was just thinking that yeah like when I when I've when I when I've
like when I when I've when I when I've spoken at like colleges and stuff I've
spoken at like colleges and stuff I've been like yeah like I think I when you
been like yeah like I think I when you were saying that I was applying it to
were saying that I was applying it to myself. I was like, wonder how many
myself. I was like, wonder how many people were just like, "Yeah, Ben Jordan
people were just like, "Yeah, Ben Jordan like was there." Exactly. I know him.
like was there." Exactly. I know him. And like uh yeah, it would be depressing
And like uh yeah, it would be depressing if like you realize like your kind of
if like you realize like your kind of educational spiel, whatever the thing
educational spiel, whatever the thing you were passionate about, no one was
you were passionate about, no one was really engaging with it at all. And like
really engaging with it at all. And like there was something else like it was
there was something else like it was just like I said, the aesthetic quality
just like I said, the aesthetic quality of listening to a smart person say smart
of listening to a smart person say smart things.
things. even to the concern of like if you give
even to the concern of like if you give like
like your thing and people are interested in
your thing and people are interested in it but it's like an ear out the other
it but it's like an ear out the other like it doesn't you know what I mean
like it doesn't you know what I mean like it would it's just a bummer to me
like it would it's just a bummer to me if someone can like read my book and see
if someone can like read my book and see my live show and not really be able to
my live show and not really be able to say what I believe you know um so that's
say what I believe you know um so that's one thing and then uh the second thing
one thing and then uh the second thing was that the lecture that he gave was it
was that the lecture that he gave was it was the [ __ ] it was um it was he did
was the [ __ ] it was um it was he did Kane and Abel I couldn't [ __ ] believe
Kane and Abel I couldn't [ __ ] believe it cuz this is from is like um 1998 like
it cuz this is from is like um 1998 like maps of meaning. It's like the same
maps of meaning. It's like the same [ __ ] thing. And this is one of the
[ __ ] thing. And this is one of the things I noticed about these people that
things I noticed about these people that you have this radar on um is like
you have this radar on um is like they're thinkers, right? So they're like
they're thinkers, right? So they're like and they and they apply themselves to
and they and they apply themselves to literally every subject matter. So
literally every subject matter. So they'll engage with literally anything,
they'll engage with literally anything, but they actually stop doing their
but they actually stop doing their research like before the first time they
research like before the first time they were on camera. Like they're not
were on camera. Like they're not actually engaging in new research, not
actually engaging in new research, not doing more work, right? They're not
doing more work, right? They're not doing like Jordan Peterson isn't doing
doing like Jordan Peterson isn't doing new academic work. He's left the
new academic work. He's left the institution. He doesn't care. he's just
institution. He doesn't care. he's just saying the same things really and then
saying the same things really and then being basically a Twitter user and
being basically a Twitter user and pontificating like with the cred of like
pontificating like with the cred of like I'm a philosopher, psychologist,
I'm a philosopher, psychologist, whatever, you know. It's strange to me
whatever, you know. It's strange to me too because like I feel like the
too because like I feel like the research is the fun part like for me at
research is the fun part like for me at least like I feel like I I really when
least like I feel like I I really when when I'm making my video the part that's
when I'm making my video the part that's fun is before I write the script, before
fun is before I write the script, before I turn on the camera and then like it's
I turn on the camera and then like it's like okay well now I have to like
like okay well now I have to like justify it and share whatever I learned
justify it and share whatever I learned or whatever I did. Um, well, it tells
or whatever I did. Um, well, it tells you something about these guys though,
you something about these guys though, right? That means that they're they're
right? That means that they're they're showman. Like they in their hearts they
showman. Like they in their hearts they are like they love the performance part.
are like they love the performance part. They like when they get laughs in their
They like when they get laughs in their thing and stuff, you know? Yeah. Um, and
thing and stuff, you know? Yeah. Um, and I I can relate to that cuz I'm an artist
I I can relate to that cuz I'm an artist and I'm a performer, you know. I was
and I'm a performer, you know. I was going to say like the research part is
going to say like the research part is like I love reading research and
like I love reading research and learning new things, but like I would
learning new things, but like I would never call like when I'm prepping for a
never call like when I'm prepping for a debate, I typically try to do a fair bit
debate, I typically try to do a fair bit of research before the debate, but I
of research before the debate, but I would never say that the research part
would never say that the research part is like the fun part. It it's the it's
is like the fun part. It it's the it's the it's the culmination of all my work.
the it's the culmination of all my work. into a debate like I don't that's that's
into a debate like I don't that's that's a funny thing too is I feel like if
a funny thing too is I feel like if somebody was like hey man you want to
somebody was like hey man you want to you want to debate I'd be like like no
you want to debate I'd be like like no like what are you talking
like what are you talking about like like I it's an interesting
about like like I it's an interesting like remnant of a different internet
like remnant of a different internet culture like the debate me bro and it
culture like the debate me bro and it seems the atheist like rationalism
seems the atheist like rationalism there's this moment yeah and I mean I'm
there's this moment yeah and I mean I'm a bad one to ask because I'm obviously
a bad one to ask because I'm obviously in the industry and I really love debate
in the industry and I really love debate and in fact I think what debate has
and in fact I think what debate has become like especially with like Piers
become like especially with like Piers Morgan and stuff is really Um it's like
Morgan and stuff is really Um it's like we've like taken our precious sacred
we've like taken our precious sacred child and like beat it up and cut it up
child and like beat it up and cut it up and put on like weird clothes and and
and put on like weird clothes and and whatnot and now we're being like see
whatnot and now we're being like see debate and it's like this isn't what it
debate and it's like this isn't what it was for cuz I I love Aristotle. I
was for cuz I I love Aristotle. I basically you might hate this take but I
basically you might hate this take but I always say Aristotle saw philosophy and
always say Aristotle saw philosophy and everything since then has just been like
everything since then has just been like a really crappy don't hate that take at
a really crappy don't hate that take at all. Face and for me it's uh Greek
all. Face and for me it's uh Greek philosophy was never my inn. Um, and so
philosophy was never my inn. Um, and so some people they're passionate about
some people they're passionate about that, they start there. But for me, it
that, they start there. But for me, it was like pursuing the things that I was
was like pursuing the things that I was passionate about and then seeing Greek
passionate about and then seeing Greek philosophy just start to like, oh, they
philosophy just start to like, oh, they already did it all. It's like you're
already did it all. It's like you're like, "Oh, this is so cool." You're
like, "Oh, this is so cool." You're like, "Oh, Plato did it." Like did the
like, "Oh, Plato did it." Like did the forms already. You can you will discover
forms already. You can you will discover that again and again. But that's like,
that again and again. But that's like, you know, which is funny to think about
you know, which is funny to think about to to like think that like like somehow
to to like think that like like somehow our generation is like the first
our generation is like the first generation to be like, "What are we like
generation to be like, "What are we like trying to figure that out?" Like we're
trying to figure that out?" Like we're the first. Yeah. like wow we're so lucky
the first. Yeah. like wow we're so lucky to be it's also the way you're taught it
to be it's also the way you're taught it it's too wrote right where it's like
it's too wrote right where it's like this is what the meaning of this is and
this is what the meaning of this is and then you actually have to live life and
then you actually have to live life and then you go oh wait that made me just
then you go oh wait that made me just made me think of that like famous thing
made me think of that like famous thing but I actually you have to connect it to
but I actually you have to connect it to real life experience and not have it
real life experience and not have it abstract yeah so so tying back in to
abstract yeah so so tying back in to answer like what like debate essentially
answer like what like debate essentially how do you get into it yeah it's it's
how do you get into it yeah it's it's because essentially I think one of the
because essentially I think one of the best ways to learn and like grow you
best ways to learn and like grow you probably again see this because of me I
probably again see this because of me I tend to think in dialectics whenever I
tend to think in dialectics whenever I think of an affirmative position ition,
think of an affirmative position ition, I immediately start to attack it and try
I immediately start to attack it and try to tear it down to see how well that
to tear it down to see how well that idea will hold up after scrutiny
idea will hold up after scrutiny essentially. I just think it's a really
essentially. I just think it's a really cool way to think about things and
cool way to think about things and rather than me doing this by myself in
rather than me doing this by myself in my own head, which some people can do
my own head, which some people can do and that's incredible. I typically want
and that's incredible. I typically want like an opponent who can do it and then
like an opponent who can do it and then I can wrestle with my ideas and then in
I can wrestle with my ideas and then in like their very very aratilian way, it's
like their very very aratilian way, it's like I have my perception and view of
like I have my perception and view of the world and then I get another person
the world and then I get another person to come in and lay their perception of
to come in and lay their perception of view and that hopefully will broaden my
view and that hopefully will broaden my own view. Now my view can include some
own view. Now my view can include some of theirs as well. That's why I love
of theirs as well. That's why I love debate. So how do you get into it? You
debate. So how do you get into it? You like join these cringey debate servers
like join these cringey debate servers and they have hosts and they ask you,
and they have hosts and they ask you, "Do you think this insane thing is true
"Do you think this insane thing is true or false?" You be like, "False. That's a
or false?" You be like, "False. That's a crazy thing to say." And they're like,
crazy thing to say." And they're like, "Prove it." Right. Which is kind of fun.
"Prove it." Right. Which is kind of fun. It's kind of a sport. Yeah. It is a
It's kind of a sport. Yeah. It is a sport. It's a skill. And that's the
sport. It's a skill. And that's the other thing about Aristotle, too, like
other thing about Aristotle, too, like the and the rhetorics like before him,
the and the rhetorics like before him, right? Is it is also just an art that
right? Is it is also just an art that you can learn to do for its own sake. It
you can learn to do for its own sake. It is not really a pursuit of truth
is not really a pursuit of truth necessarily. You can also just do it.
necessarily. You can also just do it. you can be. So, it's a beautiful tool
you can be. So, it's a beautiful tool that can be wielded to expand your mind
that can be wielded to expand your mind if you know you're playing a game. But
if you know you're playing a game. But again, speaks to the cult of
again, speaks to the cult of authenticity thing. You know, the debate
authenticity thing. You know, the debate is actually the ideas fighting and these
is actually the ideas fighting and these are the avatars and you have to like r
are the avatars and you have to like r up the audience and win. So, it's just
up the audience and win. So, it's just like a weapon. So, it's not actually an
like a weapon. So, it's not actually an exercise anymore. Exactly. Before the
exercise anymore. Exactly. Before the first time or the Yeah. The first time I
first time or the Yeah. The first time I came on Bridges like before that I I
came on Bridges like before that I I like one of my things I I think I just
like one of my things I I think I just said it on social media because
said it on social media because everybody was telling me, "Oh my god,
everybody was telling me, "Oh my god, Destiny, Bridges, we can't do this." Um,
Destiny, Bridges, we can't do this." Um, and and I was like, I don't want to
and and I was like, I don't want to argue about politics. And the reason I
argue about politics. And the reason I don't want to argue about politics, like
don't want to argue about politics, like I just don't want to be in that
I just don't want to be in that position. And the reason I don't want
position. And the reason I don't want to, it's not that I I like feel like my
to, it's not that I I like feel like my I can't voice my opinions or that my
I can't voice my opinions or that my opinions aren't valid. It's that almost
opinions aren't valid. It's that almost always it always just turns down into or
always it always just turns down into or always just whittleles down to this
always just whittleles down to this argument about what is real. Like if
argument about what is real. Like if something is real or is not real. Like
something is real or is not real. Like that's like you just always end up. So
that's like you just always end up. So it's like if if we could agree to only
it's like if if we could agree to only speak in probabilities then like that
speak in probabilities then like that then we might actually get somewhere but
then we might actually get somewhere but like otherwise I mean cuz if if I
like otherwise I mean cuz if if I started debating with somebody who was
started debating with somebody who was pro-life let's say like somebody who's
pro-life let's say like somebody who's meant like pro-life um what we're
meant like pro-life um what we're debating is like the actual thing that
debating is like the actual thing that we are debating despite everything else
we are debating despite everything else and all the like cultural and political
and all the like cultural and political issues is when does a human being become
issues is when does a human being become a human? Yeah. like which guess what
a human? Yeah. like which guess what there's no answer to that there's and so
there's no answer to that there's and so it's like so it's like then why even
it's like so it's like then why even have this debate anymore like it's
have this debate anymore like it's boring it's always going to go to the
boring it's always going to go to the same places there's never going to be
same places there's never going to be and there's absolutely never going to be
and there's absolutely never going to be one person who who makes a point and the
one person who who makes a point and the other person go huh all right done you
other person go huh all right done you know like that never happens there's too
know like that never happens there's too much identity attached to it yeah not
much identity attached to it yeah not this is why I hate like the the kind of
this is why I hate like the the kind of the current form we see because I when I
the current form we see because I when I first started I actually had lots of
first started I actually had lots of debates that would end with like me and
debates that would end with like me and the other person being like okay yeah I
the other person being like okay yeah I think I changed my mind about this,
think I changed my mind about this, right? Um, and I think it's like a lost
right? Um, and I think it's like a lost form. And to be clear, not just a lost
form. And to be clear, not just a lost form, I'm not even criticizing from this
form, I'm not even criticizing from this pedestal of being like, I'll admit when
pedestal of being like, I'll admit when I'm wrong. I'll admit when I've changed
I'm wrong. I'll admit when I've changed my mind. Like I think even the more you
my mind. Like I think even the more you spend time in the space, the more team
spend time in the space, the more team sportsy you become, which is something I
sportsy you become, which is something I try to be really cautious of of like
try to be really cautious of of like coming from a debate space, but also
coming from a debate space, but also really valuing like the psychology like
really valuing like the psychology like conversational space. Um, again, I try
conversational space. Um, again, I try to hold these two things together and
to hold these two things together and kind of make space for both. Um because
kind of make space for both. Um because I think both are really valuable. Like
I think both are really valuable. Like for example, my biggest critique of the
for example, my biggest critique of the debate space is that it's very
debate space is that it's very hypomascul and competitive and stuff
hypomascul and competitive and stuff like that, but it actually loses one of
like that, but it actually loses one of the greatest like fem things which is
the greatest like fem things which is understanding, right? And it's like if
understanding, right? And it's like if you've lost understanding in a debate,
you've lost understanding in a debate, there's there's no point in doing this
there's there's no point in doing this anymore unless you're being a
anymore unless you're being a performance artist essentially, which
performance artist essentially, which you can do for your own side. And
you can do for your own side. And there's some level of funness to, you
there's some level of funness to, you know, I I view like blood sports as the
know, I I view like blood sports as the closest thing we have to like sorcery
closest thing we have to like sorcery battles because it's like two minds
battles because it's like two minds battling it out, right? But the issue
battling it out, right? But the issue the issue is that like when you're
the issue is that like when you're watching a sorcery battle, it's not like
watching a sorcery battle, it's not like at the end we go, "Oh, that one sorcerer
at the end we go, "Oh, that one sorcerer is truth." Right? We just go, "They won.
is truth." Right? We just go, "They won. The fireballs were bigger." You know?
The fireballs were bigger." You know? Whereas in modern debate, we'd be like,
Whereas in modern debate, we'd be like, "See, this sorcerer said the thing that
"See, this sorcerer said the thing that I liked the most, so they're true." And
I liked the most, so they're true." And it's like that that doesn't mean that
it's like that that doesn't mean that we've like acquired truth, which is the
we've like acquired truth, which is the sad reality of like what I think
sad reality of like what I think performative social media has done to
performative social media has done to the art of debate. Yeah. And I also
the art of debate. Yeah. And I also think that um as with Jordan Peterson
think that um as with Jordan Peterson yet again that like if you also never
yet again that like if you also never shut the [ __ ] up, I no longer trust you.
shut the [ __ ] up, I no longer trust you. Like if you never stop like when you do
Like if you never stop like when you do too much of something when all you do is
too much of something when all you do is debate, there's no way that you can kind
debate, there's no way that you can kind of retain your humanity and humility
of retain your humanity and humility about your craft and like no, you know
about your craft and like no, you know what I mean? You can't see it. You can't
what I mean? You can't see it. You can't even I don't know if you can even see
even I don't know if you can even see yourself. And that's the thing about
yourself. And that's the thing about like uh you know, seeing Jordan Peterson
like uh you know, seeing Jordan Peterson perform is having him walk out on stage.
perform is having him walk out on stage. I'm like, this guy hasn't shut the [ __ ]
I'm like, this guy hasn't shut the [ __ ] up for like 30 years. Just hasn't shut
up for like 30 years. Just hasn't shut the [ __ ] up. How do you trust a thinker
the [ __ ] up. How do you trust a thinker that doesn't take time to think? Like,
that doesn't take time to think? Like, you know, that's it's ridiculous. Right.
you know, that's it's ridiculous. Right. And I saw that's how I felt. It was just
And I saw that's how I felt. It was just autopilot when he walked on. It was just
autopilot when he walked on. It was just like he just he could just do this
like he just he could just do this forever. And there was this like like
forever. And there was this like like there was this pantomime I hated at the
there was this pantomime I hated at the end where it's like the Q&A section came
end where it's like the Q&A section came up where it's like this guy comes out.
up where it's like this guy comes out. He's touring for his book uh what is the
He's touring for his book uh what is the new one. I think it's out now. The God
new one. I think it's out now. The God who we who wrestle with God. And so it's
who we who wrestle with God. And so it's all about God. Um Jordan Peterson book.
all about God. Um Jordan Peterson book. Yes. I don't know. It's his latest one.
Yes. I don't know. It's his latest one. Wash your penis.
Jeez, he's allowed to say that. I like what he
he's allowed to say that. I like what he says though. That's true. You should
says though. That's true. You should Nothing wrong with that one. You should
Nothing wrong with that one. You should wash your That's a good solid.
wash your That's a good solid. Unfortunately, a lot more young. I feel
Unfortunately, a lot more young. I feel like that was like the beginning like
like that was like the beginning like Yeah. I feel like the when everybody
Yeah. I feel like the when everybody liked him, I feel like all of his all of
liked him, I feel like all of his all of his like messaging towards men, which is
his like messaging towards men, which is generally what what was angled towards
generally what what was angled towards could be like summarized as like wash
could be like summarized as like wash your penis. I had one, this is just
your penis. I had one, this is just personal story, but I have like one
personal story, but I have like one friend that we were just like having
friend that we were just like having like a like a like a like a what's it
like a like a like a like a what's it called the there's a smores board of
called the there's a smores board of various cheeses
various cheeses and wine a social time. I was like
and wine a social time. I was like cheese cheese. My brain was like so
cheese cheese. My brain was like so philosophy thinking mode that I was like
philosophy thinking mode that I was like what is cheese?
what is cheese? Um but like I just had one friend that
Um but like I just had one friend that revealed to me at our last like social
revealed to me at our last like social hangout that like she's just having a
hangout that like she's just having a full-blown like 2018 12 rules for
full-blown like 2018 12 rules for lifestyle Jordan Peterson thing. She's
lifestyle Jordan Peterson thing. She's like, she's like, "No, it it really
like, she's like, "No, it it really makes a lot of sense." And like we're
makes a lot of sense." And like we're dying laughing cuz it's like it's like
dying laughing cuz it's like it's like seven years too late. It's so funny. But
seven years too late. It's so funny. But anyways, no good. But people that get
anyways, no good. But people that get the good stuff out of it, that's great.
the good stuff out of it, that's great. Yep. I was going to say the second book
Yep. I was going to say the second book literally helped save my marriage
literally helped save my marriage between Nick and I. Like I'm I'm not
between Nick and I. Like I'm I'm not joking. I read through the second book.
joking. I read through the second book. Um wash his penis eventually. It's like
Um wash his penis eventually. It's like book wash your penis. Nick can wash his
book wash your penis. Nick can wash his own penis. Okay. Again. Well, the second
own penis. Okay. Again. Well, the second one is a lot more about this like a lot
one is a lot more about this like a lot of it is actually about relationship.
of it is actually about relationship. Well, maybe that's just what I took
Well, maybe that's just what I took away. I think it's true by thesis it is.
away. I think it's true by thesis it is. It's like the chaos version. It's
It's like the chaos version. It's supposed to be more about the feminine
supposed to be more about the feminine unknown side. And that's a criticism he
unknown side. And that's a criticism he got like a lot when he did the order
got like a lot when he did the order thing. It was everyone's like order and
thing. It was everyone's like order and it's masculine and you're preaching
it's masculine and you're preaching about it so why are you obsessed with
about it so why are you obsessed with order? Like that's better. And he's like
order? Like that's better. And he's like I'm not like it's order and chaos. The
I'm not like it's order and chaos. The second book is chaos. You got to and you
second book is chaos. You got to and you got to read the first book that like the
got to read the first book that like the textbook really that genuinely that book
textbook really that genuinely that book unironically saved my marriage. Like it
unironically saved my marriage. Like it was really helpful like one chapter in
was really helpful like one chapter in particular of the tyrant and the slave
particular of the tyrant and the slave was really helpful to see like the
was really helpful to see like the classic relationship breakdown dynamic
classic relationship breakdown dynamic over and over and being like oh my gosh
over and over and being like oh my gosh Nick and I's roles are reversed here
Nick and I's roles are reversed here right at our worst like that. And like
right at our worst like that. And like it's critical of both the enabler and
it's critical of both the enabler and the tyrant, right? Like it's it's
the tyrant, right? Like it's it's critical of both positions, right? He
critical of both positions, right? He tells this story of this woman who's at
tells this story of this woman who's at her husband's deathbed and he's been
her husband's deathbed and he's been like a bully their whole relationship.
like a bully their whole relationship. Not abusive, but a bully, right? In the
Not abusive, but a bully, right? In the very tron kind of way. And as he's
very tron kind of way. And as he's dying, she's clipping his nails for him
dying, she's clipping his nails for him cuz he can't move anymore. But she's
cuz he can't move anymore. But she's intentionally clipping as close to the
intentionally clipping as close to the wick as possible to make him bleed a
wick as possible to make him bleed a little bit. And he's like, "You don't
little bit. And he's like, "You don't want to be in a relationship." Like
want to be in a relationship." Like first of all, you don't want to be the
first of all, you don't want to be the bully whose wife resents you so much
bully whose wife resents you so much that as you're dying, she's like just
that as you're dying, she's like just doing the tiny little things to make it
doing the tiny little things to make it a little bit worse, but you don't want
a little bit worse, but you don't want to be the woman who's in that
to be the woman who's in that relationship making everything just a
relationship making everything just a little bit worse. Living a life of spite
little bit worse. Living a life of spite and destruction, like resignation,
and destruction, like resignation, cynicism. It's kind of suicidal. So
cynicism. It's kind of suicidal. So helpful to like look at and be like,
helpful to like look at and be like, "Oh, I see where I do the spite pieces."
"Oh, I see where I do the spite pieces." And I It was just Yeah. So like I'm not
And I It was just Yeah. So like I'm not I'm not standing. I don't basically
I'm not standing. I don't basically anything of of Jordan Peterson after
anything of of Jordan Peterson after like basically his like coma I just like
like basically his like coma I just like pretty hard like I don't even watch it
pretty hard like I don't even watch it but just you know my like the thesis of
but just you know my like the thesis of the video basically and I'm not going to
the video basically and I'm not going to say like exactly what it is but watch it
say like exactly what it is but watch it yes eventually um uh it's but but it's
yes eventually um uh it's but but it's but it's it's that I philosophically
but it's it's that I philosophically like I found I read I study mo I try to
like I found I read I study mo I try to actually just focus on his first
actually just focus on his first textbook like maps of meaning like
textbook like maps of meaning like that's it I just want to do the
that's it I just want to do the philosophy part and like skip the
philosophy part and like skip the self-help stuff and like you know um I
self-help stuff and like you know um I call it the before times like pre like
call it the before times like pre like actually yeah but just pre pre- 2016 is
actually yeah but just pre pre- 2016 is the before times basically and so it's
the before times basically and so it's like if we just look at this thinker
like if we just look at this thinker that's like incredibly famous and I for
that's like incredibly famous and I for me there's something philosophically and
me there's something philosophically and like back then that I think contributes
like back then that I think contributes to this kind of manicky and moralizing
to this kind of manicky and moralizing route that he eventually took. So I
route that he eventually took. So I don't actually subscribe to the like
don't actually subscribe to the like post coma narrative that a lot of people
post coma narrative that a lot of people are like, "Oh, we changed afterwards."
are like, "Oh, we changed afterwards." Like it was always there. You could
Like it was always there. You could always see it. It got just louder, you
always see it. It got just louder, you know? Well, I feel like the post coma I
know? Well, I feel like the post coma I mean, I feel like that that's when I
mean, I feel like that that's when I started enjoying because like that
started enjoying because like that that's when like he completely lost his
that's when like he completely lost his [ __ ] mind and it was just like I I
[ __ ] mind and it was just like I I would like look at his tweets and just
would like look at his tweets and just be like, "Wow, you know, like wow, he's
be like, "Wow, you know, like wow, he's completely this this man's insane." Um,
completely this this man's insane." Um, but in his in his books, I have to say
but in his in his books, I have to say in his self-help books that he does I I
in his self-help books that he does I I like this and I respect this is that um
like this and I respect this is that um when you're writing a self-help book, he
when you're writing a self-help book, he tones it down for the most part. Like I
tones it down for the most part. Like I would say in 12 rules for life and for
would say in 12 rules for life and for 12 More Rules like his he takes on an
12 More Rules like his he takes on an authoral tone like he tries to be
authoral tone like he tries to be helpful to everybody and it doesn't take
helpful to everybody and it doesn't take every opportunity. It's not all screeds
every opportunity. It's not all screeds about the left or whatever. Like he's
about the left or whatever. Like he's like I'm in self-help book mode like he
like I'm in self-help book mode like he takes on a different voice. He doesn't
takes on a different voice. He doesn't sound like your grandpa who's like just
sound like your grandpa who's like just talking about N. always giving his best
talking about N. always giving his best a little and you're like grandpa Nan was
a little and you're like grandpa Nan was like forever ago like I was thinking of
like forever ago like I was thinking of the music conference I'm
the music conference I'm like cool grandpa I guess cool grandpa
like cool grandpa I guess cool grandpa um okay I had one last question that was
um okay I had one last question that was ruminating in my mind oh something I've
ruminating in my mind oh something I've been wrestling with a lot especially
been wrestling with a lot especially more recently which is like this idea of
more recently which is like this idea of bridging with opposites right in
bridging with opposites right in democracy and pushing into spaces that
democracy and pushing into spaces that make you
make you uncomfortable and the dialectic of And
uncomfortable and the dialectic of And some things are intolerable, right? Like
some things are intolerable, right? Like I would never, as much as I want to like
I would never, as much as I want to like understand other people. Um, I would
understand other people. Um, I would never like want to like spend a lot of
never like want to like spend a lot of time with like cannibalistic people that
time with like cannibalistic people that murder people to the point that I'm
murder people to the point that I'm being like, look, like sometimes there's
being like, look, like sometimes there's like a good time to cannibalize murder
like a good time to cannibalize murder people, right? Like I would never I
people, right? Like I would never I never want to do like the genuine
never want to do like the genuine version of like uh what is it called?
version of like uh what is it called? Likewashing or whatever. Saneashing.
Likewashing or whatever. Saneashing. Have you heard that? Nope. It's like
Have you heard that? Nope. It's like this new liberal purity test right now
this new liberal purity test right now that's driving me crazy. people who are
that's driving me crazy. people who are what making it seem like it's sane by
what making it seem like it's sane by engaging with it with the fact that it's
engaging with it with the fact that it's real or something like basically like
real or something like basically like steel manning really ridiculous
steel manning really ridiculous positions to kind of make it seem more
positions to kind of make it seem more sane essentially and and I think this
sane essentially and and I think this can occur the problem to me is like
can occur the problem to me is like there is a time to do steel manning and
there is a time to do steel manning and there's a time not to steel man and it's
there's a time not to steel man and it's really hard to know the difference right
really hard to know the difference right so like I've very much part of like why
so like I've very much part of like why Steve and I separated in bridges there's
Steve and I separated in bridges there's a number of reasons but one of them is
a number of reasons but one of them is that we have you can probably tell very
that we have you can probably tell very different approach approaches to how we
different approach approaches to how we want to engage with Republicans and
want to engage with Republicans and people that we vehemently politically
people that we vehemently politically disagree with, right? And the problem is
disagree with, right? And the problem is that I'm aware that the nuking
that I'm aware that the nuking everything to the ground approach might
everything to the ground approach might act it might be that time. You know,
act it might be that time. You know, it's possible because there are there
it's possible because there are there was time for revolution, right? I'm not
was time for revolution, right? I'm not opposed to the Civil War, for example. I
opposed to the Civil War, for example. I think that that was a thing that had to
think that that was a thing that had to happen. And so, not that I want civil
happen. And so, not that I want civil war. I mean like the literal American
war. I mean like the literal American civil war had to occur and the
civil war had to occur and the revolution was a good thing, right?
revolution was a good thing, right? Um, how do you think about engaging with
Um, how do you think about engaging with Republicans? Because I feel like I keep
Republicans? Because I feel like I keep on wanting to like talk to them and
on wanting to like talk to them and understand them. The reality is that
understand them. The reality is that Trump had this massive popular vote.
Trump had this massive popular vote. People resonated with him and it's
People resonated with him and it's fundamental that we understand why that
fundamental that we understand why that is. And then I'll
is. And then I'll see I'll like talk to my neighbor who's
see I'll like talk to my neighbor who's a like very insane Republican,
a like very insane Republican, unironically wants me deported. Um, and
unironically wants me deported. Um, and he'll like talk about the terrorists and
he'll like talk about the terrorists and I'm just
I'm just like like I can't you don't you don't
like like I can't you don't you don't understand anything about money. I don't
understand anything about money. I don't understand anything about money and I
understand anything about money and I know that you don't understand anything
know that you don't understand anything about money. So I guess like how do you
about money. So I guess like how do you how do you guys solve this? Cuz I'm I'm
how do you guys solve this? Cuz I'm I'm genuinely querying the answer. I don't
genuinely querying the answer. I don't know. I don't know how to do this cuz I
know. I don't know how to do this cuz I feel like I keep trying to do the
feel like I keep trying to do the empathy piece and then I just get so
empathy piece and then I just get so frustrated
frustrated um that I'm like now I'm like blowing up
um that I'm like now I'm like blowing up the whole empathy goal. But like there's
the whole empathy goal. But like there's also a time where you
also a time where you don't, right? I've worked with child
don't, right? I've worked with child abusers. I've worked with like really
abusers. I've worked with like really brutal people. Yeah. And I very much
brutal people. Yeah. And I very much have this saying of like empathy isn't
have this saying of like empathy isn't just understanding. It's understanding
just understanding. It's understanding but not excusing. Right. Like that is
but not excusing. Right. Like that is empathy. And so I can empathize with
empathy. And so I can empathize with most Republicans by not excusing their
most Republicans by not excusing their behavior. But increasingly it feels like
behavior. But increasingly it feels like I'm getting into the situation where I'm
I'm getting into the situation where I'm like I don't feel like I'm talking to
like I don't feel like I'm talking to please. I don't feel like I'm talking to
please. I don't feel like I'm talking to feel so bad sometimes cuz the dog can
feel so bad sometimes cuz the dog can notice that I'm not giving them the same
notice that I'm not giving them the same amount of and they go to me and they're
amount of and they go to me and they're like where is it? And I'm like I'm
like where is it? And I'm like I'm sorry. It's time. I'm sorry. But I feel
sorry. It's time. I'm sorry. But I feel like less I feel less and less like I'm
like less I feel less and less like I'm talking to somebody who's got a child
talking to somebody who's got a child abuser past and confronting them with
abuser past and confronting them with like your kids don't owe you a
like your kids don't owe you a relationship. And I know that that's
relationship. And I know that that's hard to hear, right? I've had to have
hard to hear, right? I've had to have those conversations with clients. I feel
those conversations with clients. I feel like I'm more talking to my clients
like I'm more talking to my clients where I'm like your dead ex doesn't live
where I'm like your dead ex doesn't live in our basement. She's not there. You're
in our basement. She's not there. You're having a mental break, right? And it's
having a mental break, right? And it's like the way that I engage in empathy
like the way that I engage in empathy with somebody who doesn't have a a
with somebody who doesn't have a a connection to reality is not the same
connection to reality is not the same way that I do with somebody who does.
way that I do with somebody who does. They're just coping and trying to excuse
They're just coping and trying to excuse and justify things they feel ashamed
and justify things they feel ashamed about or things that they're angry about
about or things that they're angry about and hate, right? And so I don't know how
and hate, right? And so I don't know how to solve this cuz increasingly I'm like
to solve this cuz increasingly I'm like is everyone just becoming increasingly
is everyone just becoming increasingly like unironic psychotic? Like did co
like unironic psychotic? Like did co just melt everyone's brains a little bit
just melt everyone's brains a little bit and their gra their ability to even
and their gra their ability to even grasp reality is kind of broken? Like I
grasp reality is kind of broken? Like I don't I don't know. I I just kind of
don't I don't know. I I just kind of treat my neighbor like a crazy old man
treat my neighbor like a crazy old man now. I'm like, "Okay, my I should say
now. I'm like, "Okay, my I should say his name. Okay, Matt." Like that's his
his name. Okay, Matt." Like that's his name is not Matt. When When we were in
name is not Matt. When When we were in Houston, I mean, just a random like when
Houston, I mean, just a random like when we were in Houston, me and Cameron went
we were in Houston, me and Cameron went to a flea market and there was some guy
to a flea market and there was some guy that was like selling like cowboy boots
that was like selling like cowboy boots or, you know, something just random at a
or, you know, something just random at a flea market. And we were looking at it
flea market. And we were looking at it now and me and Cameron were like in some
now and me and Cameron were like in some other conversation and uh and I saw this
other conversation and uh and I saw this some it was some sort of thing some sort
some it was some sort of thing some sort of Rambo thing like some old vintage
of Rambo thing like some old vintage Rambo Sylvester Swan thing and the guy
Rambo Sylvester Swan thing and the guy goes yeah well you want a real hero and
goes yeah well you want a real hero and he pulls he opens his jacket and we're
he pulls he opens his jacket and we're like what the [ __ ] And um he opens his
like what the [ __ ] And um he opens his jacket and he pulls out a Trump trading
jacket and he pulls out a Trump trading card that had him dressed up like Rambo
card that had him dressed up like Rambo and Trump dressed up like Rambo. Yeah.
and Trump dressed up like Rambo. Yeah. And he was like, "Who do you think's or
And he was like, "Who do you think's or no I I said I was like, "Who do you
no I I said I was like, "Who do you think would win in a fight between the
think would win in a fight between the Cuz he was like, "This is the real
Cuz he was like, "This is the real hero." And I was like, "Okay." Uh, "Who
hero." And I was like, "Okay." Uh, "Who do you think would win, Rambo or him?"
do you think would win, Rambo or him?" And he was like, "Trump." And I was
And he was like, "Trump." And I was like, "All right." And then whatever.
like, "All right." And then whatever. You know, it's just like, "Well, why
You know, it's just like, "Well, why even [ __ ] make like but but the funny
even [ __ ] make like but but the funny thing is is
thing is is like, nope." It was almost as if it
like, nope." It was almost as if it happened so fast that we had to go back
happened so fast that we had to go back in time and be like, "How [ __ ] crazy
in time and be like, "How [ __ ] crazy is it to like sell boots at a flea
is it to like sell boots at a flea market that is like 99% Hispanic
market that is like 99% Hispanic people?" Like, like he was like one of
people?" Like, like he was like one of the few white people there. Um, and then
the few white people there. Um, and then see another white person and show them a
see another white person and show them a trading card of Donald Trump, somebody
trading card of Donald Trump, somebody who you support politically, with
who you support politically, with muscles. Like, what the [ __ ] Like,
muscles. Like, what the [ __ ] Like, what? What? Like I I don't like we we
what? What? Like I I don't like we we the only thing that we could really
the only thing that we could really think is like I guess he just wanted to
think is like I guess he just wanted to like talk [ __ ] about Mexicans and
like talk [ __ ] about Mexicans and thought we might be a good like bunny
thought we might be a good like bunny for that. Are you are you cool? He was
for that. Are you are you cool? He was checking if you would code switch and
checking if you would code switch and like how and that's a lot of the you
like how and that's a lot of the you know a lot of this the silliness um is
know a lot of this the silliness um is very clearly like it's uh it's loyalty
very clearly like it's uh it's loyalty testing. Like it's like you know I with
testing. Like it's like you know I with this you know take this man and put him
this you know take this man and put him in like a like a like a like a dog
in like a like a like a like a dog fight. I think he's probably going to
fight. I think he's probably going to bet on the obviously larger dog. Like I
bet on the obviously larger dog. Like I don't I don't know if I don't know if
don't I don't know if I don't know if that cognitive thing is gone. It's more
that cognitive thing is gone. It's more the like I'm demonstrating like my, you
the like I'm demonstrating like my, you know, culture or like my allegiance or
know, culture or like my allegiance or whatever. You know what I mean? But like
whatever. You know what I mean? But like the idea that this person is somebody to
the idea that this person is somebody to be politically debated with is a waste
be politically debated with is a waste of time. You may as well debate with a
of time. You may as well debate with a flat-earther like because it's like okay
flat-earther like because it's like okay well like the probability that the earth
well like the probability that the earth is round is so much higher that this is
is round is so much higher that this is not really worth talking about. But this
not really worth talking about. But this person like this person with the trading
person like this person with the trading card and many of the people that you
card and many of the people that you encounter online, they're clowns. And if
encounter online, they're clowns. And if we had Marjorie Taylor Green here, it
we had Marjorie Taylor Green here, it would get a lot of views, but I don't
would get a lot of views, but I don't want her here because she's a [ __ ]
want her here because she's a [ __ ] clown. She doesn't we're not actually
clown. She doesn't we're not actually going to get any useful information out
going to get any useful information out of her because a she's playing a part
of her because a she's playing a part and b she's a bully. And like and people
and b she's a bully. And like and people who are bullies, I just like I when I
who are bullies, I just like I when I run into a bully, I just want to punch
run into a bully, I just want to punch them or I want to like embarrass them.
them or I want to like embarrass them. And I and that's not what I want to do
And I and that's not what I want to do on my platform ever. And so it's like
on my platform ever. And so it's like that's that's how I feel about that. On
that's that's how I feel about that. On the other end, which is really funny
the other end, which is really funny because like I feel like if we were to
because like I feel like if we were to have a Bridges episode and Marjgery
have a Bridges episode and Marjgery Taylor Green was going to come on it, I
Taylor Green was going to come on it, I would probably try to talk you out of
would probably try to talk you out of it. If you if you had like a convicted
it. If you if you had like a convicted [ __ ] pedophile who wanted I would be
[ __ ] pedophile who wanted I would be like, "Yeah, that's because I'm going to
like, "Yeah, that's because I'm going to learn something from that. Your audience
learn something from that. Your audience is going to learn something from that."
is going to learn something from that." And that and more importantly is instead
And that and more importantly is instead of just like saying that this person
of just like saying that this person deserves to die, this person's the worst
deserves to die, this person's the worst says worse than a murderer. That doesn't
says worse than a murderer. That doesn't help children. Saying that help does not
help children. Saying that help does not help victims at all. Understanding how
help victims at all. Understanding how that person became a pedophile is what
that person became a pedophile is what helps children. And so it's like that's
helps children. And so it's like that's something that actually needs opening
something that actually needs opening up. But it's just really difficult and
up. But it's just really difficult and repulsive to do it for most people. So
repulsive to do it for most people. So they don't want to do it. And it's much
they don't want to do it. And it's much easier to just say, well, no, I don't
easier to just say, well, no, I don't not ped all pedophiles should die, you
not ped all pedophiles should die, you know, or or just like, you know, make it
know, or or just like, you know, make it this binary thing where it's like, well
this binary thing where it's like, well then like you had to if you pretend to
then like you had to if you pretend to care about children that much, you need
care about children that much, you need to change that priority a little bit.
to change that priority a little bit. you need to do something that's a little
you need to do something that's a little bit more difficult to look at that
bit more difficult to look at that because yeah, it it numbers haven't
because yeah, it it numbers haven't lowered since we've put them in prison
lowered since we've put them in prison longer, which would mean that like maybe
longer, which would mean that like maybe we need to actually dive into this and
we need to actually dive into this and and look into it and and because it is
and look into it and and because it is it's but we can all agree that it's
it's but we can all agree that it's wrong to abuse children. Like I I can't
wrong to abuse children. Like I I can't think of anybody I've never met a person
think of anybody I've never met a person in my life who doesn't agree with that.
in my life who doesn't agree with that. Yeah. And so like
Yeah. And so like may maybe this is something that so so
may maybe this is something that so so it is an interesting twist at the end of
it is an interesting twist at the end of this monologue of mine here. It is an
this monologue of mine here. It is an interesting twist to think that like I
interesting twist to think that like I would rather have a pedophile than
would rather have a pedophile than Marjgerie Taylor Green sitting next to.
Marjgerie Taylor Green sitting next to. Well is one that's the other thing is
Well is one that's the other thing is one of them is an active propagandist.
one of them is an active propagandist. Is the other person like actually just
Is the other person like actually just like uh a side of humanity that you are
like uh a side of humanity that you are afraid to look at? Yeah. That you have
afraid to look at? Yeah. That you have this like you know kind of knee-jerk
this like you know kind of knee-jerk again. And it's like I don't want to
again. And it's like I don't want to look at it so I will just say this thing
look at it so I will just say this thing that I think they should all just be
that I think they should all just be murdered. Which is obviously not a
murdered. Which is obviously not a sincere engagement with maybe if you're
sincere engagement with maybe if you're worried about that problem, how would
worried about that problem, how would you like mitigate it? And what do you
you like mitigate it? And what do you actually think? You know what I mean?
actually think? You know what I mean? Like maybe just one last thing, maybe a
Like maybe just one last thing, maybe a more fun way of looking at that is if
more fun way of looking at that is if you
you try to think of your expected answer if
try to think of your expected answer if you asked Marjorie Taylor Green what she
you asked Marjorie Taylor Green what she thinks about pedophiles. Like pretty
thinks about pedophiles. Like pretty easy. You could like write that you
easy. You could like write that you could almost perfectly predict it
could almost perfectly predict it verbatim and then ask a pedophile what
verbatim and then ask a pedophile what they think of Marjgery Taylor Green and
they think of Marjgery Taylor Green and I have no [ __ ] idea. That was just a
I have no [ __ ] idea. That was just a scientist in you. You were just like
scientist in you. You were just like Yeah. No, that's that's that's really
Yeah. No, that's that's that's really interesting because I think I think the
interesting because I think I think the reality is that the way that you engage
reality is that the way that you engage like this is essentially some level of a
like this is essentially some level of a platforming question as well, right?
platforming question as well, right? Which is essentially it's not a simple
Which is essentially it's not a simple answer. It has to be nuanced, right? In
answer. It has to be nuanced, right? In the way that treating crime or addiction
the way that treating crime or addiction has to be nuanced and individualized,
has to be nuanced and individualized, right? Because when I think about the
right? Because when I think about the guy at the flea market for example, a
guy at the flea market for example, a lot of my work in the red pill space for
lot of my work in the red pill space for example is being essentially that one
example is being essentially that one good liberal. So I don't abandon any of
good liberal. So I don't abandon any of my liberal principles but I emphasize
my liberal principles but I emphasize dysfunction for people but I emphasize
dysfunction for people but I emphasize things like yeah men do have it tough.
things like yeah men do have it tough. There are things that are difficult you
There are things that are difficult you know like I essentially go your feelings
know like I essentially go your feelings are fairings are just feelings. It's
are fairings are just feelings. It's fine that you feel that way but this
fine that you feel that way but this this isn't actually true. Like this one
this isn't actually true. Like this one thing isn't true. And also like if you
thing isn't true. And also like if you hold this belief and this will please
hold this belief and this will please simultaneously, you're just being
simultaneously, you're just being inconsistent. Like these two things
inconsistent. Like these two things can't coexist in the same in the same
can't coexist in the same in the same moral principle system, right? And I've
moral principle system, right? And I've wrestled this a lot, but we had a really
wrestled this a lot, but we had a really good conversation with Dr. K where he
good conversation with Dr. K where he said like one thing that's really
said like one thing that's really important to think about is obviously
important to think about is obviously like I'm never going to change Myron's
like I'm never going to change Myron's mind, but that's not why I'm talking to
mind, but that's not why I'm talking to Myron. I'm not trying to be like maybe
Myron. I'm not trying to be like maybe I'll convince Myron to like, you know,
I'll convince Myron to like, you know, change his mind and not hate women. You
change his mind and not hate women. You mean Matt or Wait, what you talking
mean Matt or Wait, what you talking about? My name Sorry. Okay. Yes. Um,
about? My name Sorry. Okay. Yes. Um, yeah. Not my neighborhood. I don't
yeah. Not my neighborhood. I don't really know who that is. Yeah. So, I was
really know who that is. Yeah. So, I was not I think I got the face though.
not I think I got the face though. Right. He's a he's an performative
Right. He's a he's an performative arbiter for the audience I'm actually
arbiter for the audience I'm actually trying to reach. Right. But Dr. K kind
trying to reach. Right. But Dr. K kind of pointed out if if the viewers
of pointed out if if the viewers watching this go, there's no good women
watching this go, there's no good women and there's no good liberals to finally,
and there's no good liberals to finally, well, there's one. It's like you've
well, there's one. It's like you've actually changed a fundamental belief
actually changed a fundamental belief because if there's one, there can always
because if there's one, there can always be more. Right? this is like very much
be more. Right? this is like very much um how I orient myself towards like the
um how I orient myself towards like the red pill, but that doesn't mean that
red pill, but that doesn't mean that that's how I should orient myself
that's how I should orient myself towards Republicans, right? Like to
towards Republicans, right? Like to assume that the model that might be
assume that the model that might be effective with red pill men and what
effective with red pill men and what seems to be like a sal like it works
seems to be like a sal like it works really well isn't necessarily what's the
really well isn't necessarily what's the approach with Republicans, right? where
approach with Republicans, right? where if I go to my crazy neighbor Matt and I
if I go to my crazy neighbor Matt and I understand all of his feelings of why he
understand all of his feelings of why he distrusts Democrats and I'm like, "Yeah,
distrusts Democrats and I'm like, "Yeah, you know, they have done bad things and
you know, they have done bad things and I don't love everything Democrats have
I don't love everything Democrats have done and I am very critical of like
done and I am very critical of like their fakeness. In fact, probably too
their fakeness. In fact, probably too critical on and not critical enough of
critical on and not critical enough of Republicans because I love the left and
Republicans because I love the left and I care about it."
I care about it." Um, it feels like for him that will
Um, it feels like for him that will never make him go, "Oh, well, there's at
never make him go, "Oh, well, there's at least one good liberal, right?" He'll
least one good liberal, right?" He'll just kind of be like, "See, I'm right."
just kind of be like, "See, I'm right." And then when I push back, he basically
And then when I push back, he basically goes like, "La, I don't want to hear it.
goes like, "La, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to
I don't want to hear it. I don't want to engage. I don't want to engage. And so
engage. I don't want to engage. And so then it's like, okay, well, I'm
then it's like, okay, well, I'm appealing to men that hate women through
appealing to men that hate women through their feelings essentially because they
their feelings essentially because they won't listen by facts until I care about
won't listen by facts until I care about their feelings. But I don't know if I'm
their feelings. But I don't know if I'm convinced anymore that the same can be
convinced anymore that the same can be done with like Republicans because their
done with like Republicans because their feelings, even if I can satiate them,
feelings, even if I can satiate them, don't change the fact that we're in
don't change the fact that we're in different realities. Yeah. But it's like
different realities. Yeah. But it's like in my mind, I'm like, but shouldn't it?
in my mind, I'm like, but shouldn't it? So I'm missing something. Basically, I
So I'm missing something. Basically, I know I'm missing something.
know I'm missing something. that goes bullying back in a weird not
that goes bullying back in a weird not bullying back. I don't want to say the
bullying back. I don't want to say the word bullying, but I feel like like
word bullying, but I feel like like there's like maybe maybe my my stature
there's like maybe maybe my my stature and voice and and just the way I present
and voice and and just the way I present myself comes off a little more like
myself comes off a little more like what, you know, one of those people
what, you know, one of those people would consider alpha or something like
would consider alpha or something like that. But I think that there is
that. But I think that there is something too to like hearing somebody
something too to like hearing somebody say something, oh, this is happening and
say something, oh, this is happening and say, shut the [ __ ] up. Like you have no
say, shut the [ __ ] up. Like you have no [ __ ] idea what you're talking about.
[ __ ] idea what you're talking about. Like just being that assertive about it
Like just being that assertive about it often changes And I think like someone
often changes And I think like someone like Bill Burr is a good example of that
like Bill Burr is a good example of that or like somebody who like has a more
or like somebody who like has a more masculine like like aggressive tone
masculine like like aggressive tone where like yeah I mean if you say we
where like yeah I mean if you say we would think we have no idea what he's
would think we have no idea what he's like in real life but we would think
like in real life but we would think that like if you you know said something
that like if you you know said something like no I I think Elon's got some good
like no I I think Elon's got some good points Bill Burr would just [ __ ] tell
points Bill Burr would just [ __ ] tell you shut the [ __ ] up and like and and
you shut the [ __ ] up and like and and you'd be like yeah okay. But but the
you'd be like yeah okay. But but the thing is about that though and this
thing is about that though and this speaks to the alpheness. I think all
speaks to the alpheness. I think all this is real like identity politics
this is real like identity politics plays like a role in this like it's
plays like a role in this like it's real, right? I noticed like even for me
real, right? I noticed like even for me like talking about sometimes like
like talking about sometimes like religious stuff or like self-improvement
religious stuff or like self-improvement sorts of things, right? There's like a
sorts of things, right? There's like a really large like very far-left and very
really large like very far-left and very queer audience that maybe that doesn't
queer audience that maybe that doesn't hear this, but like I'm saying it
hear this, but like I'm saying it literally just because the way I look
literally just because the way I look like does something, you know what I
like does something, you know what I mean? And there's like a there's a
mean? And there's like a there's a mixture of these sort of status signals
mixture of these sort of status signals and like kind of identifiers with
and like kind of identifiers with different communities that like there
different communities that like there there's this is true. this matter. It's
there's this is true. this matter. It's like it affects your message, you know?
like it affects your message, you know? Um, so like also with me it's like I
Um, so like also with me it's like I part of why I studied philosophy the way
part of why I studied philosophy the way that I did uh which was just
that I did uh which was just autodidactic and at home and it was like
autodidactic and at home and it was like yeah I was out of passion but also it's
yeah I was out of passion but also it's so that I could speak the language of
so that I could speak the language of some of these guys you know what I mean
some of these guys you know what I mean like I could you know I don't want to
like I could you know I don't want to say this because it's a kind of scary
say this because it's a kind of scary prospect in some ways and I'm not really
prospect in some ways and I'm not really sure but like if I spoke to Jordan
sure but like if I spoke to Jordan Peterson right um I know all the stories
Peterson right um I know all the stories he knows like I' I've read his books
he knows like I' I've read his books like I know the stuff you know I mean we
like I know the stuff you know I mean we can both talk pragmatism It's just I
can both talk pragmatism It's just I will use the exact same language to
will use the exact same language to point it at like well obviously the
point it at like well obviously the non-binary people are a pragmatic
non-binary people are a pragmatic category obviously right like what do we
category obviously right like what do we you know what I mean like what are we
you know what I mean like what are we doing like there there's so rendering
doing like there there's so rendering yourself able that's that in itself is
yourself able that's that in itself is also like a kind of status thing and so
also like a kind of status thing and so I think what's part of that is um for
I think what's part of that is um for you and something I think is important
you and something I think is important actually is demonstration of competence
actually is demonstration of competence okay so here's the thing is like the uh
okay so here's the thing is like the uh democracy um it's about persuasion right
democracy um it's about persuasion right it's about persuading the voters. Like
it's about persuading the voters. Like that's the job, right? Because the whole
that's the job, right? Because the whole point is instead of violence, we're
point is instead of violence, we're going to use persuasion. And then what
going to use persuasion. And then what we're having a conversation here about a
we're having a conversation here about a little bit is getting a little bit we're
little bit is getting a little bit we're starting to forget that that's like the
starting to forget that that's like the democracy. And I'm saying not like us,
democracy. And I'm saying not like us, but like democracy is forgetting that
but like democracy is forgetting that because you're realizing that and and in
because you're realizing that and and in some cases it's probably just straight
some cases it's probably just straight up real where it's like I can't persuade
up real where it's like I can't persuade Marjorie Taylor Green. It's not
Marjorie Taylor Green. It's not possible. And I think we are definitely
possible. And I think we are definitely seeing the rise in America of a Mauist
seeing the rise in America of a Mauist cult of personality that is get to the
cult of personality that is get to the point of like now we have to fight these
point of like now we have to fight these guys because I think that is I think
guys because I think that is I think that's a close I I don't know it's
that's a close I I don't know it's fascinating to me that I haven't heard
fascinating to me that I haven't heard anyone say this that like the person in
anyone say this that like the person in history that Trump reminds me of the
history that Trump reminds me of the most is clearly like Mao like clearly
most is clearly like Mao like clearly this cult of personality thing like the
this cult of personality thing like the only line between like you know their
only line between like you know their kind of um the way things played out for
kind of um the way things played out for them is you know when Mao was out of
them is you know when Mao was out of power he actually went on the airwaves
power he actually went on the airwaves and said it is legal to kill these guys.
and said it is legal to kill these guys. Go do it. Like these are not the real
Go do it. Like these are not the real rulers. And Trump just like pussi it out
rulers. And Trump just like pussi it out because like he didn't quite want to go
because like he didn't quite want to go that step yet, you know? So like but
that step yet, you know? So like but like to think he would do like imagine
like to think he would do like imagine like if he said that like he can
like if he said that like he can mobilize people like he has that power
mobilize people like he has that power this like you know like black eye
this like you know like black eye hypnotism power and this is just
hypnotism power and this is just something that I'm living through in my
something that I'm living through in my lifetime and there's a point where
lifetime and there's a point where that's just outside of my control like
that's just outside of my control like I'm just watching this. we're in this
I'm just watching this. we're in this part of the karmic cycle like this is
part of the karmic cycle like this is happening and there's no wiggling around
happening and there's no wiggling around that to that end um you know the second
that to that end um you know the second Trump presidency incumbent kingdom like
Trump presidency incumbent kingdom like I am more politicized like I'm like it's
I am more politicized like I'm like it's time to do some work and to do that work
time to do some work and to do that work but I think that that work does look
but I think that that work does look like persuasion because that's the thing
like persuasion because that's the thing right where it's like it is um half the
right where it's like it is um half the population voted for him so it's like
population voted for him so it's like now it's like I can't is this my c my
now it's like I can't is this my c my nation I say my nation broadly as like a
nation I say my nation broadly as like a north north American And um you know I
north north American And um you know I guess we're becoming quite more distinct
guess we're becoming quite more distinct and separate now but um or you might be
and separate now but um or you might be a state so you know one one or the other
a state so you know one one or the other Canadian not funny the joke funny really
Canadian not funny the joke funny really I was like um but uh but but yeah I
I was like um but uh but but yeah I think the task is like persuasion and to
think the task is like persuasion and to that end like when you talked about like
that end like when you talked about like how do you change people's facts I don't
how do you change people's facts I don't think it is [ __ ] about facts it's
think it is [ __ ] about facts it's about persuasion I don't think it's ever
about persuasion I don't think it's ever really necessarily been about facts like
really necessarily been about facts like we have this assumption that it's about
we have this assumption that it's about rational actors and appealing to their
rational actors and appealing to their rationality. I've always said it's about
rationality. I've always said it's about feelings, but I think it's more than
feelings, but I think it's more than feelings. This is the thing that I um I
feelings. This is the thing that I um I can take from like the you know this
can take from like the you know this incredible escalation and
incredible escalation and crystallization of the um cult of
crystallization of the um cult of personality like political movement that
personality like political movement that is like Trump's empire or whatever. Um
is like Trump's empire or whatever. Um like it is speaking to a a yearning for
like it is speaking to a a yearning for mythology. Like I think that's really
mythology. Like I think that's really it's not even because people are making
it's not even because people are making this mistake that people have the wrong
this mistake that people have the wrong fact. They're so crazy that they believe
fact. They're so crazy that they believe these crazy facts, but even uh
these crazy facts, but even uh flat-earthers aren't aren't doing that.
flat-earthers aren't aren't doing that. Like they don't believe the fact that
Like they don't believe the fact that the earth is flat. They're participating
the earth is flat. They're participating in a community and like this kind of
in a community and like this kind of mythology that is like a mode of being
mythology that is like a mode of being and it gives them parties to go to and
and it gives them parties to go to and it gives them meaning and [ __ ] And so
it gives them meaning and [ __ ] And so like that's why you go like uh this is
like that's why you go like uh this is why and same with like you know when you
why and same with like you know when you have like Supreme Leader Putin or like
have like Supreme Leader Putin or like Supreme Leader Mao, you're like and also
Supreme Leader Mao, you're like and also I bet he could beat um everyone in an
I bet he could beat um everyone in an arm wrestle and he's the fastest runner
arm wrestle and he's the fastest runner and he can jump the highest. you just
and he can jump the highest. you just start doing all this [ __ ] because it's
start doing all this [ __ ] because it's it's not because you believe those
it's not because you believe those facts. It's like you're being swept up
facts. It's like you're being swept up in a mythology. And so I think that uh
in a mythology. And so I think that uh mythology actually in is the way to
mythology actually in is the way to appeal to people. Um and that that's the
appeal to people. Um and that that's the kind of persuasion you have to do is
kind of persuasion you have to do is performance where in like that we're in
performance where in like that we're in the age of attention. It is like kind of
the age of attention. It is like kind of about this. And so this comes in a lot
about this. And so this comes in a lot of forms, but I don't think it is about
of forms, but I don't think it is about even sometimes like like debate or
even sometimes like like debate or getting your facts through with someone.
getting your facts through with someone. I think it is about like performance and
I think it is about like performance and influence. So like genuinely you um
influence. So like genuinely you um being so successful and multivaried in
being so successful and multivaried in your like uh many many endeavors um you
your like uh many many endeavors um you know money you are competent. I think
know money you are competent. I think that's the strongest message. I think
that's the strongest message. I think that's something that's where Jordan
that's something that's where Jordan Peterson's just right but the left needs
Peterson's just right but the left needs him. You know what I mean? Cuz we have
him. You know what I mean? Cuz we have to demonstrate competence in like a
to demonstrate competence in like a better story. And I think that's the
better story. And I think that's the thing right like that's why I can I can
thing right like that's why I can I can move people farther left. I've seen that
move people farther left. I've seen that I'm capable of doing that right. you are
I'm capable of doing that right. you are capable of make discrediting these
capable of make discrediting these people by saying man [ __ ] you but that's
people by saying man [ __ ] you but that's your charisma right um and why is that I
your charisma right um and why is that I think it is the demonstration of
think it is the demonstration of competence I think it's quality and it's
competence I think it's quality and it's performance and it's enchanting people
performance and it's enchanting people and that's what you have to do is not
and that's what you have to do is not even convince them but like you know so
even convince them but like you know so like I really do think like um even like
like I really do think like um even like um Mark Carney right the new uh Canadian
um Mark Carney right the new uh Canadian prime minister I uh I hope he wins uh
prime minister I uh I hope he wins uh and I think one of the big strengths of
and I think one of the big strengths of him like bringing this Liberal party
him like bringing this Liberal party back to life and as a force that could
back to life and as a force that could you know help our country and kind of,
you know help our country and kind of, you know, defend against Trump and be a
you know, defend against Trump and be a force in the world that like creates a
force in the world that like creates a sort of cultural identity and like a
sort of cultural identity and like a kind of mythology that like kind of
kind of mythology that like kind of combats this like nefarious bottomless
combats this like nefarious bottomless one. I think like is just the competence
one. I think like is just the competence like the competence in the snark that's
like the competence in the snark that's what he's serving and that's what feels
what he's serving and that's what feels good, right? It's like I'm obviously
good, right? It's like I'm obviously competent. I think you got to and this
competent. I think you got to and this is another thing where it's like the
is another thing where it's like the left kind of having this sort of anyone
left kind of having this sort of anyone that has like a million dollars is like
that has like a million dollars is like part of the enemies, right? not being
part of the enemies, right? not being able to distinguish between like first
able to distinguish between like first of all a person uh that uh that a person
of all a person uh that uh that a person like first of all a person with a
like first of all a person with a million dollars congratulations you need
million dollars congratulations you need that to retire everybody needs that to
that to retire everybody needs that to retire you need that so that's yeah yeah
retire you need that so that's yeah yeah know so so there's that so first of all
know so so there's that so first of all a million dollars it's like okay so that
a million dollars it's like okay so that for a random individual person even it's
for a random individual person even it's like you need that and then when it let
like you need that and then when it let alone talking about like a business or
alone talking about like a business or like an organization that like you know
like an organization that like you know that takes in like $20 million but it's
that takes in like $20 million but it's not like personal it's not in your bank
not like personal it's not in your bank account like this is operations money.
account like this is operations money. Some things cost that much. Net worth of
Some things cost that much. Net worth of a million dollars is like, "Oh, so you
a million dollars is like, "Oh, so you live in the suburbs." Like, you know,
live in the suburbs." Like, you know, that's like and and so like you we need
that's like and and so like you we need to get over our like allergy I'm
to get over our like allergy I'm speaking on behalf of the leftist like
speaking on behalf of the leftist like get over our allergy to like successful
get over our allergy to like successful people and successful institutions
people and successful institutions because you [ __ ] need those. That's
because you [ __ ] need those. That's what you're trying to build, right? And
what you're trying to build, right? And to distinguish between that and like
to distinguish between that and like what how much a billion is, you know?
what how much a billion is, you know? And uh so that's like and and and and
And uh so that's like and and and and because I don't think that I think
because I don't think that I think that's the way to convince that person
that's the way to convince that person too. I think that's the way to um break
too. I think that's the way to um break into the heart of this person that's
into the heart of this person that's like you you want to see my Trump like
like you you want to see my Trump like action figure or whatever. Um is like
action figure or whatever. Um is like you can't really directly do it
you can't really directly do it necessarily. You have to kind of be cool
necessarily. You have to kind of be cool and successful and strong and like and
and successful and strong and like and and be like united like have a vision.
and be like united like have a vision. you actually have to represent something
you actually have to represent something and then you know you see those people
and then you know you see those people like those people do exist like the
like those people do exist like the splitting at the voting booth being like
splitting at the voting booth being like for abortion and for Trump and the
for abortion and for Trump and the people that like vote for AOC and vote
people that like vote for AOC and vote for Trump like those people are here um
for Trump like those people are here um and I just think that yeah that's
and I just think that yeah that's yearning for mythology you know I mean
yearning for mythology you know I mean and they kind of say it's like
and they kind of say it's like authenticity I don't know it's it's I
authenticity I don't know it's it's I would say it's like fundamentally not if
would say it's like fundamentally not if you're if you're yearning for mythology
you're if you're yearning for mythology you're you're yearning for like a some
you're you're yearning for like a some level of greater noun and meaning well I
level of greater noun and meaning well I think it's it's that and that that in
think it's it's that and that that in that greater meaning though I think that
that greater meaning though I think that people do detect it and this is again
people do detect it and this is again using like Petersonian verbage here like
using like Petersonian verbage here like but is like the really real like the why
but is like the really real like the why am I alive real you know what I mean and
am I alive real you know what I mean and that's the you know that's a value
that's the you know that's a value that's why he like muddies the
that's why he like muddies the definition of truth right is like what
definition of truth right is like what about that thing what about that
about that thing what about that animating thing the thing that like
animating thing the thing that like makes people act that changes the world
makes people act that changes the world you know um I think people uh want that
you know um I think people uh want that and they're getting a version of that
and they're getting a version of that with this and then the only way to fight
with this and then the only way to fight is you have to um you know provide
is you have to um you know provide something like meaningful and exciting
something like meaningful and exciting and like you know yeah I like I don't
and like you know yeah I like I don't know I'm tampering out here but
know I'm tampering out here but like it's enchantment I think it's
like it's enchantment I think it's enchanting like you don't even persuade
enchanting like you don't even persuade definitely not rationally and not even
definitely not rationally and not even getting validating their feelings to
getting validating their feelings to like persuade an individual person I
like persuade an individual person I think you have to enchant people yeah
think you have to enchant people yeah like with the with majesty like
like with the with majesty like performance like magic like god you know
performance like magic like god you know cuz that's what they're doing like
cuz that's what they're doing like they're we're entering almost like a a
they're we're entering almost like a a monarchy phase of like collective
monarchy phase of like collective consciousness where we're yearning for
consciousness where we're yearning for kings
kings You know what I mean? And so like, you
You know what I mean? And so like, you know, I think that then the version of
know, I think that then the version of that that is pro-democracy is like uh
that that is pro-democracy is like uh this is why I talk about but like
this is why I talk about but like culture, but having like high status
culture, but having like high status figures that you're not constantly
figures that you're not constantly trying to rip apart that you're happy
trying to rip apart that you're happy that they're successful and that are
that they're successful and that are enchanting and they're exciting and you
enchanting and they're exciting and you want to emulate them. And that's what I
want to emulate them. And that's what I think the left [ __ ] doesn't have
think the left [ __ ] doesn't have right now or like they need to build is
right now or like they need to build is have there's no there's no unifying
have there's no there's no unifying thing that it represents that people are
thing that it represents that people are fighting for. It's just like a a
fighting for. It's just like a a rejection and a fighting against um some
rejection and a fighting against um some other greater known. There's nothing to
other greater known. There's nothing to rally behind truly like at all in a way
rally behind truly like at all in a way that's meaningful, right? Like if Kla
that's meaningful, right? Like if Kla and Biden go like rally behind us, we
and Biden go like rally behind us, we want to keep everything the same.
want to keep everything the same. Everyone's like no, we don't want where
Everyone's like no, we don't want where the hunger is. That's not where the
the hunger is. That's not where the hunger is. So it's it's an enchanting
hunger is. So it's it's an enchanting promise of living a better life. Well, I
promise of living a better life. Well, I also I think that like just due to the
also I think that like just due to the rights the like the way that they fight
rights the like the way that they fight is almost entirely using fear and that's
is almost entirely using fear and that's and they gain a lot of success from it.
and they gain a lot of success from it. And so I I feel like like Joe Biden
And so I I feel like like Joe Biden winning the presidency um in 2020 was
winning the presidency um in 2020 was like it made a lot of sense because like
like it made a lot of sense because like it's a return to normaly. It's like okay
it's a return to normaly. It's like okay we're exhausted from and like right now
we're exhausted from and like right now like I would find it hard to believe
like I would find it hard to believe that a lot that a lot of people on the
that a lot that a lot of people on the right aren't exhausted from Trump. I
right aren't exhausted from Trump. I mean literally I I looked at the news
mean literally I I looked at the news this morning and he's he's threatening
this morning and he's he's threatening nuclear war against Iran. And it's like
nuclear war against Iran. And it's like shut the [ __ ] up. like what wherever you
shut the [ __ ] up. like what wherever you are on this political spectrum after all
are on this political spectrum after all the [ __ ] with the tariffs after
the [ __ ] with the tariffs after everything else like it people do they
everything else like it people do they do get Trump exhaustion and that shows
do get Trump exhaustion and that shows like that's what I mean that's what
like that's what I mean that's what turned Georgia into a purple state is
turned Georgia into a purple state is people are just tired of it whereas they
people are just tired of it whereas they you know before that they were deeply
you know before that they were deeply Republican here. Um, yeah. And it's I
Republican here. Um, yeah. And it's I don't know. And it's the thing is it's
don't know. And it's the thing is it's just not a linear rational decision.
just not a linear rational decision. Like I think it's it really is you have
Like I think it's it really is you have to put like that's what my feeling has
to put like that's what my feeling has always been about Trump that uh upset me
always been about Trump that uh upset me just in 2016. The kind of maybe the
just in 2016. The kind of maybe the first time I was really kind of
first time I was really kind of politicized like watching that happen.
politicized like watching that happen. Um, and it was like my frustration was
Um, and it was like my frustration was like I mean it's just so dark. It was
like I mean it's just so dark. It was just so dark. Something like so uh dark
just so dark. Something like so uh dark in us was like prayed upon and it's the
in us was like prayed upon and it's the laughter and it's like the excitement
laughter and it's like the excitement and then watching other people like the
and then watching other people like the thing that depressed me a lot was like
thing that depressed me a lot was like that moment where like Joe Biden was
that moment where like Joe Biden was like shut up man. like you had that
like shut up man. like you had that thing and it made me sad because it was
thing and it made me sad because it was like my feeling has always been it's
like my feeling has always been it's like you got to just put like a a very
like you got to just put like a a very competent and impressive adult in the
competent and impressive adult in the room and then you have to behave like
room and then you have to behave like that. You know what I mean? And so but I
that. You know what I mean? And so but I guess that's sort of that Bill Bur thing
guess that's sort of that Bill Bur thing I was talking about where where he was
I was talking about where where he was just like would you shut up man and he
just like would you shut up man and he like he actually you know sort of sat on
like he actually you know sort of sat on Trump's head for a second and it really
Trump's head for a second and it really made Trump look tiny. But I don't think
made Trump look tiny. But I don't think you can win in like that. I don't think
you can win in like that. I don't think we can win like that and that's not I
we can win like that and that's not I don't think that's the like I think
don't think that's the like I think that's a degenerative impulse. That's
that's a degenerative impulse. That's the attention impulse. I feel like what
the attention impulse. I feel like what wins that inevitably is going to be like
wins that inevitably is going to be like Elon Musk and Trump. Like I think if
Elon Musk and Trump. Like I think if you're playing the attention game, if
you're playing the attention game, if you're playing like like you know just
you're playing like like you know just purely like trying to dunk like that's
purely like trying to dunk like that's the version that's violence to me. It's
the version that's violence to me. It's the same thing, right? Cuz it's just the
the same thing, right? Cuz it's just the you know what I mean? Um it has to be an
you know what I mean? Um it has to be an appeal to beauty and like put that
appeal to beauty and like put that beside someone like that's what's
beside someone like that's what's happening right now with Mark Carney and
happening right now with Mark Carney and Pierre Palev, right? Is like that's
Pierre Palev, right? Is like that's actually the the prevailing narrative.
actually the the prevailing narrative. kind of working is Mark Carney's coming
kind of working is Mark Carney's coming in like this very competent person with
in like this very competent person with a ridiculous amount of experience and is
a ridiculous amount of experience and is like being excessively pragmatic and
like being excessively pragmatic and then he's being like and Pier probably
then he's being like and Pier probably all he can say is like complain about
all he can say is like complain about like Trudeau it's just fear fear fear
like Trudeau it's just fear fear fear and people sometimes when you and this
and people sometimes when you and this is my belief this is my faith I guess
is my belief this is my faith I guess that I'm staking my life on that gives
that I'm staking my life on that gives my life some meaning and promise for the
my life some meaning and promise for the future is my belief is when you put
future is my belief is when you put something beautiful besides something
something beautiful besides something that is ugly people respond to the
that is ugly people respond to the beautiful thing I and I know that's
beautiful thing I and I know that's insane faith but like that's what I
insane faith but like that's what I think you know So that's my hope. That's
think you know So that's my hope. That's the to the a good I guess a good
the to the a good I guess a good question for me the born American uh in
question for me the born American uh in the middle of two Canadians born
the middle of two Canadians born Canadians. What um we this looks like an
Canadians. What um we this looks like an album cover by the way. I realized a
album cover by the way. I realized a while ago like this is one of your album
while ago like this is one of your album covers. Yeah. What uh this wasn't on
covers. Yeah. What uh this wasn't on purpose. So I guess like how do you how
purpose. So I guess like how do you how did it like well I guess like starting
did it like well I guess like starting from from you since you currently live
from from you since you currently live in Canada and and I'm assuming you're a
in Canada and and I'm assuming you're a proud Canadian. Um, what how did it feel
proud Canadian. Um, what how did it feel to hear a serious
to hear a serious threat talk conversation about Canada
threat talk conversation about Canada becoming a state? Like how like because
becoming a state? Like how like because yeah, when you said like, "Oh, that's
yeah, when you said like, "Oh, that's still a new joke." Um, I it it actually
still a new joke." Um, I it it actually made me like, you know, I don't I don't
made me like, you know, I don't I don't think I ever like had I I mean, the way
think I ever like had I I mean, the way that I think of it is it's obviously
that I think of it is it's obviously going to be very differently than the
going to be very differently than the way that that a Canadian thinks of it
way that that a Canadian thinks of it probably. Maybe. But um yeah, like how
probably. Maybe. But um yeah, like how did it was there like did did you
did it was there like did did you entertain the idea? No. No. Was it just
entertain the idea? No. No. Was it just like it was [ __ ] horrible and
like it was [ __ ] horrible and heartbreaking? I guess. Okay. Well, a
heartbreaking? I guess. Okay. Well, a better question. If it came from
better question. If it came from uh Obama,
uh Obama, would you entertain? It's still
would you entertain? It's still insulting. Yeah. I'm wondering like
insulting. Yeah. I'm wondering like would you entertain the fact that it
would you entertain the fact that it came from Obama? Canadian identity. I
came from Obama? Canadian identity. I have never seen it so like strong. I've
have never seen it so like strong. I've never I've never in my whole life
never I've never in my whole life actually because we are a little bit
actually because we are a little bit like blas P about a lot of that thing
like blas P about a lot of that thing and like generally we're on a path
and like generally we're on a path towards increased friendship and
towards increased friendship and integration with America. That's
integration with America. That's generally the world and generally like
generally the world and generally like we have this kind of performative well
we have this kind of performative well we're not America anti-Americanism just
we're not America anti-Americanism just kind of baked into our cultural
kind of baked into our cultural identity. But really though like people
identity. But really though like people feel positively about America there like
feel positively about America there like those are friends. There's like
those are friends. There's like extremely stalwart uh trading partners.
extremely stalwart uh trading partners. We go there for shopping and we do
We go there for shopping and we do business there and we go there for
business there and we go there for concerts and it's great. And when you
concerts and it's great. And when you meet, you know, when you meet Americans,
meet, you know, when you meet Americans, like there's just like they're the same
like there's just like they're the same culture fundamentally, you know. Um,
culture fundamentally, you know. Um, we're just a little better than you
we're just a little better than you guys. That's typically that's the that's
guys. That's typically that's the that's that's the feeling is we're calmer and
that's the feeling is we're calmer and we're a little morally better and a
we're a little morally better and a little nicer and stuff. Um, no, but the
little nicer and stuff. Um, no, but the heartbreak is is that like the American
heartbreak is is that like the American I don't know the uh is the the
I don't know the uh is the the hostility. It's it's very obviously not
hostility. It's it's very obviously not coming from the American people like and
coming from the American people like and literally like I was um just in like
literally like I was um just in like upstate New York uh recently and just
upstate New York uh recently and just like seeing people I know this is very
like seeing people I know this is very north and very liberal kind of place but
north and very liberal kind of place but people were just like how are you same
people were just like how are you same question like how are you feeling? They
question like how are you feeling? They were like we don't know what to do like
were like we don't know what to do like we're so sorry you know like genuinely
we're so sorry you know like genuinely like like they're like we don't have a
like like they're like we don't have a problem with you and I got to be the
problem with you and I got to be the Canadian representative you like and we
Canadian representative you like and we don't have a problem with the American
don't have a problem with the American people like at all. This is such a prime
people like at all. This is such a prime example of what we were talking about
example of what we were talking about earlier is where Trump literally clearly
earlier is where Trump literally clearly just made a joke like with Justin
just made a joke like with Justin Trudeau like become the 51st state and
Trudeau like become the 51st state and then it gets a reaction and he's like oh
then it gets a reaction and he's like oh this is about me now and he's like okay
this is about me now and he's like okay so I'll keep pulling the threads that
so I'll keep pulling the threads that get big reaction and so you know just
get big reaction and so you know just knowing that as the world kind of
knowing that as the world kind of crumbles and it start goes to fall in on
crumbles and it start goes to fall in on him and he becomes the most important
him and he becomes the most important person in the universe and he's holding
person in the universe and he's holding these levers that are making big things
these levers that are making big things move he's like something's going to
move he's like something's going to happen you know what I mean if I never
happen you know what I mean if I never admit I'm wrong and I just keep you know
admit I'm wrong and I just keep you know doing everything gets a big reaction and
doing everything gets a big reaction and so the This terrifying sad thing is I'm
so the This terrifying sad thing is I'm scared of what your country is like
scared of what your country is like doing to itself. And like I can't
doing to itself. And like I can't believe for the first time in my entire
believe for the first time in my entire [ __ ] life that America is not my
[ __ ] life that America is not my country's best friend. Like I can't
country's best friend. Like I can't believe that like the world has changed
believe that like the world has changed and it's not going to go back for like a
and it's not going to go back for like a while cuz we have to change our whole
while cuz we have to change our whole [ __ ] economy. Maybe we have to. We
[ __ ] economy. Maybe we have to. We can't trust. Yeah. Well, I'm a big fan.
can't trust. Yeah. Well, I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan of state rights. Like I I
I'm a big fan of state rights. Like I I do think that states should be allowed
do think that states should be allowed to be different than from you know I I
to be different than from you know I I do think that there should be less laws
do think that there should be less laws that force states to like it and I I
that force states to like it and I I even even though and I think that a lot
even even though and I think that a lot of times that works in in the favor of
of times that works in in the favor of of what I believe in politically and a
of what I believe in politically and a lot of times that works very against it
lot of times that works very against it like like you know I I could see an
like like you know I I could see an argument for like a state where 70 or
argument for like a state where 70 or 80% of people are pro-life that maybe
80% of people are pro-life that maybe you know they should have the right to
you know they should have the right to democracy consider I actually talked to
democracy consider I actually talked to there was I was even just I I speaking
there was I was even just I I speaking to like a law student like Harvard. I
to like a law student like Harvard. I remember when uh Roie Wade was
remember when uh Roie Wade was overturned and one of the things that
overturned and one of the things that they said is like and this is very left
they said is like and this is very left to people, all of them, right? And
to people, all of them, right? And they're like, we all kind of knew that
they're like, we all kind of knew that it was a little, you know what I mean?
it was a little, you know what I mean? Getting that in there on the federal
Getting that in there on the federal level, you know, like from a legal
level, you know, like from a legal perspective, you know, and so it's like
perspective, you know, and so it's like you can strongarm it for like the
you can strongarm it for like the greater good because you believe it's
greater good because you believe it's moral, that's fine. But sometimes also
moral, that's fine. But sometimes also it's like listen, if a if and like if
it's like listen, if a if and like if just make it purely theoretical, 90% of
just make it purely theoretical, 90% of like a country is like we morally
like a country is like we morally believe this is wrong and they vote for
believe this is wrong and they vote for that. I'm like well that's what that is.
that. I'm like well that's what that is. I think you know. Yeah. Yeah. But so
I think you know. Yeah. Yeah. But so like but then you have to persuade
like but then you have to persuade people. That's the actual task you have.
people. That's the actual task you have. That's the thing and that's the thing is
That's the thing and that's the thing is like it fell apart because they didn't
like it fell apart because they didn't do the real job which was actually
do the real job which was actually persuade people you know it wasn't done.
persuade people you know it wasn't done. So it was and so yeah within those state
So it was and so yeah within those state rights like we we do you know as America
rights like we we do you know as America is a republic with 50 democracies right?
is a republic with 50 democracies right? So like that's that's what it was
So like that's that's what it was initially supposed to be. Like I I get
initially supposed to be. Like I I get really depressed and anxious at borders,
really depressed and anxious at borders, like land borders, like for some like
like land borders, like for some like the mo the Canadian border mostly cuz
the mo the Canadian border mostly cuz like they do [ __ ] like cut open your cut
like they do [ __ ] like cut open your cut open your uh uh air mattresses and crap
open your uh uh air mattresses and crap like just from like touring where you're
like just from like touring where you're just like, "Oh my god."
just like, "Oh my god." But Mexico like yeah like few years ago
But Mexico like yeah like few years ago uh I drove with a friend from like one
uh I drove with a friend from like one end of the country so basically like
end of the country so basically like along the wall the entire Mexican wall
along the wall the entire Mexican wall and it just felt so like you know
and it just felt so like you know culture down m unless you're like in a
culture down m unless you're like in a major city the culture near the Mexican
major city the culture near the Mexican border like in southern Texas and
border like in southern Texas and southern Arizona like southern New
southern Arizona like southern New Mexico everybody speaks Spanish like cuz
Mexico everybody speaks Spanish like cuz they were Mexican like at one point and
they were Mexican like at one point and so it's like there the only difference
so it's like there the only difference is that a long time ago some some
is that a long time ago some some powerful people decided that this is
powerful people decided that this is where that these people are are going to
where that these people are are going to be of this class and these people are
be of this class and these people are going to be of another. And so it's kind
going to be of another. And so it's kind of funny cuz like when I hear when I
of funny cuz like when I hear when I heard that ridiculous rhetoric of like
heard that ridiculous rhetoric of like well we'll just make Canada a state. It
well we'll just make Canada a state. It it was like part of me was like just
it was like part of me was like just that like I guess more libertarian part
that like I guess more libertarian part of me was just like yeah borders are
of me was just like yeah borders are dumb. Yeah. like like even a broken
dumb. Yeah. like like even a broken clock is right twice a day, you know,
clock is right twice a day, you know, like but cuz but when you think about it
like but cuz but when you think about it like when you think about what we are
like when you think about what we are actually worried about with China and
actually worried about with China and what we're actually like I mean in the
what we're actually like I mean in the 90s and early 2000s the European Union
90s and early 2000s the European Union was actually massive threat. It's like
was actually massive threat. It's like whoa whoa whoa you guys can't all just
whoa whoa whoa you guys can't all just become one [ __ ] currency like yeah
become one [ __ ] currency like yeah gez what's happening? Um it's like well
gez what's happening? Um it's like well yeah like there's a lot of people south
yeah like there's a lot of people south of America that want to come north to
of America that want to come north to work and there's a lot of there's a
work and there's a lot of there's a workforce participation in America and
workforce participation in America and in Canada is at historic lows. It's like
in Canada is at historic lows. It's like all of this makes perfect sense. It's
all of this makes perfect sense. It's not one gigantic because like and
not one gigantic because like and culturally too like the the line like
culturally too like the the line like you said with Mexico the line doesn't
you said with Mexico the line doesn't change culture. The culture is
change culture. The culture is geographical. So it's like Toronto and
geographical. So it's like Toronto and New York are very quite similar. It was
New York are very quite similar. It was very different obviously, but like
very different obviously, but like really like especially like you know
really like especially like you know upstate New York and Ontario where I
upstate New York and Ontario where I live. They're the [ __ ] same and see
live. They're the [ __ ] same and see Vancouver. It's fine. And so I'm so pro
Vancouver. It's fine. And so I'm so pro that I'm also I'm 50% of my audience is
that I'm also I'm 50% of my audience is in America. I care a lot about America.
in America. I care a lot about America. I'm invested in it, you know, and I want
I'm invested in it, you know, and I want to work there. So like I would have only
to work there. So like I would have only cared about like deepening the ties. Um
cared about like deepening the ties. Um the thing that I think is al of course
the thing that I think is al of course like in an objective rational vacuum
like in an objective rational vacuum somewhere we're talking like a
somewhere we're talking like a theoretical conversation about deepening
theoretical conversation about deepening the trenches between our or not trenches
the trenches between our or not trenches the opposite of that um bonds between
the opposite of that um bonds between our countries and stuff but like the a
our countries and stuff but like the a clear thing again that sometimes it
clear thing again that sometimes it surprises me just like the discourse
surprises me just like the discourse that Trump manages to generate around
that Trump manages to generate around himself where people aren't pointing to
himself where people aren't pointing to the most obvious thing where it's like
the most obvious thing where it's like he's trying to bring imperialism back
he's trying to bring imperialism back like that's the thing right that's the
like that's the thing right that's the thing he likes the idea he could acquire
thing he likes the idea he could acquire more land. Yeah. He's just trying to
more land. Yeah. He's just trying to normalize. So Canada, Greenland. He's
normalize. So Canada, Greenland. He's like that's great, right? So of course
like that's great, right? So of course he's going to be on the side of like,
he's going to be on the side of like, you know, blowing out the Gaza Strip and
you know, blowing out the Gaza Strip and just the building. He's like he wants
just the building. He's like he wants imperialism to be back because he's a
imperialism to be back because he's a monarch. Like that's his clear thing. So
monarch. Like that's his clear thing. So we're not talking at all about the ties,
we're not talking at all about the ties, the relationship between our countries.
the relationship between our countries. We're just talking about active
We're just talking about active aggression and subjugation and like
aggression and subjugation and like empire, you know, and so you can't No,
empire, you know, and so you can't No, you can't entertain that for a second.
you can't entertain that for a second. Like this is a you need strong cultural.
Like this is a you need strong cultural. Yeah. There's a very big difference
Yeah. There's a very big difference between like for example like cuz I'm
between like for example like cuz I'm from Alberta right which is um like
from Alberta right which is um like obviously Canada's very culturally
obviously Canada's very culturally homogeneous in a lot of ways but also
homogeneous in a lot of ways but also culturally distinct in that like a lot
culturally distinct in that like a lot of prairie provinces are very frustrated
of prairie provinces are very frustrated with like Ontario and Quebec for example
with like Ontario and Quebec for example because we basically have no say or
because we basically have no say or power at a federal level despite being
power at a federal level despite being some of the most important like economic
some of the most important like economic resources.
resources. Um I like how how Cora is just
Um I like how how Cora is just introducing herself to the world as an
introducing herself to the world as an idiot right now. Like that's just like
idiot right now. Like that's just like literally like anybody watching this
literally like anybody watching this just like that dog is dumb. What's
just like that dog is dumb. What's happening? And Lucy's like, "God, I hate
happening? And Lucy's like, "God, I hate her." So yeah. Um yeah, there's some And
her." So yeah. Um yeah, there's some And by the way, and in Alberta, in a few
by the way, and in Alberta, in a few places, there's a little bit of like,
places, there's a little bit of like, "Yeah, I owe America." Like they're very
"Yeah, I owe America." Like they're very Alberta would be a lot more. Most
Alberta would be a lot more. Most Albertans at home when they hear that
Albertans at home when they hear that there's a frustration at the imperialist
there's a frustration at the imperialist kind of um we can just breach your
kind of um we can just breach your sovereignty and there's nothing you can
sovereignty and there's nothing you can do about it. na boooo kind of thing
do about it. na boooo kind of thing where it's kind of like a that's
where it's kind of like a that's literally true militar at a military
literally true militar at a military level like America could just dumpster
level like America could just dumpster Canada you have a big rocket launcher
Canada you have a big rocket launcher like that's true like no question about
like that's true like no question about it in fact America can dumpster any
it in fact America can dumpster any country that it wants to because it it
country that it wants to because it it traded essentially its position in the
traded essentially its position in the hierarchy at the top for uh no
hierarchy at the top for uh no healthcare but high military spending
healthcare but high military spending and NATO and everyone else got to trade
and NATO and everyone else got to trade getting to not spend on military
getting to not spend on military contracted It is a it was a blood pack.
contracted It is a it was a blood pack. That's the thing that first complicated
That's the thing that first complicated my sort of like uh you know my broadly
my sort of like uh you know my broadly just like anarchctic like communist like
just like anarchctic like communist like just leftist leftist leftist without
just leftist leftist leftist without having examined much and that happened
having examined much and that happened because I got a YouTube channel people
because I got a YouTube channel people started repeating stuff I said so it's
started repeating stuff I said so it's just a responsibility I was like I
just a responsibility I was like I should read the book but like uh that
should read the book but like uh that was one of the first things that
was one of the first things that complicated for it for me was I was like
complicated for it for me was I was like being like yeah America empire and like
being like yeah America empire and like it's you know like the police state of
it's you know like the police state of the world it's bad it's military bases
the world it's bad it's military bases are everywhere and I realized I was like
are everywhere and I realized I was like my country just like just took that
my country just like just took that we're just like thank you like you just
we're just like thank you like you just contracted that to be ours and we just
contracted that to be ours and we just don't have it. And it's tough because
don't have it. And it's tough because the reality is that like if the world
the reality is that like if the world was a different place, we wouldn't need
was a different place, we wouldn't need police and we wouldn't need global
police and we wouldn't need global police, but the world is not a different
police, but the world is not a different place and there is some need for it
place and there is some need for it because there like are people um who
because there like are people um who have hatred enough that they want to
have hatred enough that they want to kill and we're in America like we we we
kill and we're in America like we we we see that even within America, right? And
see that even within America, right? And so it's this really difficult tenuous
so it's this really difficult tenuous relationship where Alberta and very much
relationship where Alberta and very much is kind of like a neglected golden child
is kind of like a neglected golden child in many ways or whether it's gives gives
in many ways or whether it's gives gives gives there's actual economic re
gives there's actual economic re repayment systems that go out. So,
repayment systems that go out. So, Albertans are very, very frustrated with
Albertans are very, very frustrated with Canada. And so, a lot of my family at
Canada. And so, a lot of my family at home is like, "Honestly, if we could
home is like, "Honestly, if we could vote, I'd probably vote for it." And I'm
vote, I'd probably vote for it." And I'm like, "Well, you won't get your
like, "Well, you won't get your universal healthcare." And they're like,
universal healthcare." And they're like, "Oh, right." That's like the main thing
"Oh, right." That's like the main thing where Albertans are like, "Oh, but we
where Albertans are like, "Oh, but we really like universal healthcare." Um,
really like universal healthcare." Um, people don't like losing things, and
people don't like losing things, and that's good. That's a good thing that
that's good. That's a good thing that can be like leveraged and persuaded.
can be like leveraged and persuaded. Like cuz I I think like most of like the
Like cuz I I think like most of like the push back on that like again it was
push back on that like again it was Trump and it was him being an [ __ ]
Trump and it was him being an [ __ ] and like they there was no logic behind
and like they there was no logic behind it but I think most of the push back on
it but I think most of the push back on that and most of the push back you ever
that and most of the push back you ever hear about like unifying countries is
hear about like unifying countries is always like well you can't just rob us
always like well you can't just rob us of our c cultural identity and it's like
of our c cultural identity and it's like well go to Louisiana and go to like a
well go to Louisiana and go to like a casian area and like ask them if their
casian area and like ask them if their cultural identity is is you know is
cultural identity is is you know is robbed because they're American. Like
robbed because they're American. Like it's literally no like and I guess it
it's literally no like and I guess it like it burns a little part of me to
like it burns a little part of me to think that like that somebody thinks
think that like that somebody thinks that their cultural identity is decided
that their cultural identity is decided by government. Well, I know that but JJ
by government. Well, I know that but JJ McCulla al obviously feels similarly
McCulla al obviously feels similarly about all this, but like the real thing
about all this, but like the real thing that because I was trying to understand
that because I was trying to understand because I wonder because he's all pro
because I wonder because he's all pro kind of Canada America integration and
kind of Canada America integration and I'm like okay but he's very anti-Trump
I'm like okay but he's very anti-Trump and so I'm like so how is he going to
and so I'm like so how is he going to feel about this? And uh I think the
feel about this? And uh I think the thing is like um and this is just
thing is like um and this is just responding to the state of the world
responding to the state of the world like very tragically some of the things
like very tragically some of the things we care about are being hurt. You know
we care about are being hurt. You know what I mean? So like I think that's the
what I mean? So like I think that's the thing right is that like this thing of
thing right is that like this thing of like you know the the perhaps like the
like you know the the perhaps like the wisdom inside of like you know we should
wisdom inside of like you know we should not you know like the the libertarian in
not you know like the the libertarian in you and the anti-border person in you is
you and the anti-border person in you is being harmed by this kind of act of
being harmed by this kind of act of aggression that's like the most toxic.
aggression that's like the most toxic. It's making your beliefs look bad. It
It's making your beliefs look bad. It sucks you know. And so I I don't know.
sucks you know. And so I I don't know. That's my um I feel the same way about
That's my um I feel the same way about like Christianity, right? It's like that
like Christianity, right? It's like that but like I'm not going to leave the room
but like I'm not going to leave the room like as a Christian because Christians
like as a Christian because Christians are embarrassing me and like they're
are embarrassing me and like they're really damaging something that I really
really damaging something that I really believe in. I was like no, I have to
believe in. I was like no, I have to fight you. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And and
fight you. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And and I think like in a lot of ways like there
I think like in a lot of ways like there are a lot of places where healthcare is
are a lot of places where healthcare is not that bad in the United States in
not that bad in the United States in comparison to others or like you know or
comparison to others or like you know or I mean whatever. What get an AR-15 and
I mean whatever. What get an AR-15 and and walk into a Walmart in California
and walk into a Walmart in California and let me know how that goes for you
and let me know how that goes for you because like you're going to end up in
because like you're going to end up in prison. like there there's a lot of
prison. like there there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of places in America
Yeah, there's a lot of places in America that aren't really Americaish in terms
that aren't really Americaish in terms of like how you think of all the bad
of like how you think of all the bad things with America. Um but yeah,
things with America. Um but yeah, anyway. Yeah, I'm also out of my pay
anyway. Yeah, I'm also out of my pay grade, so it might be a Yeah, I mean I
grade, so it might be a Yeah, I mean I Yeah, I think
Yeah, I think the a pretty natural stopping point
the a pretty natural stopping point actually because it's uh I think I think
actually because it's uh I think I think the problem when it comes to like
the problem when it comes to like figuring out bridging between these
figuring out bridging between these communities and and peace and like all
communities and and peace and like all these like big broad questions is that
these like big broad questions is that like if we had
uh if we had solved that problem uh we wouldn't be here. um like
uh we wouldn't be here. um like philosophy would end even though it did
philosophy would end even though it did end with Aristotle in many ways. Maybe
end with Aristotle in many ways. Maybe Aristotle's got the answer that I'm like
Aristotle's got the answer that I'm like looking for but um history ended too. It
looking for but um history ended too. It turns out it started again. So yeah.
turns out it started again. So yeah. Yeah. And so it's like you know if the
Yeah. And so it's like you know if the answer was simple we wouldn't they like
answer was simple we wouldn't they like be wrestling it. And I guess the best
be wrestling it. And I guess the best that we can do is like try to wrestle
that we can do is like try to wrestle with it honestly um and give space to
with it honestly um and give space to others who are also if they are
others who are also if they are presumably wrestling with it honestly to
presumably wrestling with it honestly to allow them to do so um and be willing to
allow them to do so um and be willing to still unify underneath them. I guess to
still unify underneath them. I guess to some degree if we're not living in a
some degree if we're not living in a simulation and if we are actually like
simulation and if we are actually like fleshy human beings on this planet
fleshy human beings on this planet that's spinning and soaring through
that's spinning and soaring through space then every single thing that we
space then every single thing that we think of to try and improve the world
think of to try and improve the world around us will be uh forgotten when the
around us will be uh forgotten when the last human dies. So doesn't really
last human dies. So doesn't really matter anyway does it?
matter anyway does it? I disagree word from our sponsor.
I disagree word from our sponsor. I disagree mostly because I think we
I disagree mostly because I think we render meaning in and of ourselves. Like
render meaning in and of ourselves. Like I think just because it ends with us, it
I think just because it ends with us, it doesn't make it Well, yeah. And I also
doesn't make it Well, yeah. And I also think that like what we think reality is
think that like what we think reality is is wildly going to be wrong from how it
is wildly going to be wrong from how it actually is. Like, you know, I don't
actually is. Like, you know, I don't think we actually understand.
think we actually understand. Yeah. All I mean, just doing something
Yeah. All I mean, just doing something within my lifetime that makes things
within my lifetime that makes things sound good. Oh, did this this dog my
sound good. Oh, did this this dog my idea of allowing the dogs on the podcast
idea of allowing the dogs on the podcast has really turned out bad in the last 5
has really turned out bad in the last 5 minutes. Like get another thing that I
minutes. Like get another thing that I was right about. Yeah.
was right about. Yeah. As soon as she came in with a tour, I
As soon as she came in with a tour, I was like, "This is not Yeah. Well, she
was like, "This is not Yeah. Well, she brought a stick in here and tore it to
brought a stick in here and tore it to shreds." And this, by the way, is the my
shreds." And this, by the way, is the my the problem I have with dog people.
the problem I have with dog people. Well, for one, it's I just don't have
Well, for one, it's I just don't have the love in my heart like that. But the
the love in my heart like that. But the bigger thing is that like hanging out
bigger thing is that like hanging out with dog is that like the dogs uh
with dog is that like the dogs uh actively subtract sometimes from the
actively subtract sometimes from the human connection where I'm like I show
human connection where I'm like I show up to like have I go show up to hang out
up to like have I go show up to hang out with somebody. This one time I should
with somebody. This one time I should tell the story. I don't know but like
tell the story. I don't know but like you know I met my partners at the time's
you know I met my partners at the time's parents, right? Um and so this was the
parents, right? Um and so this was the introduction like that introduction and
introduction like that introduction and these two big [ __ ] dogs half the time
these two big [ __ ] dogs half the time was like was like Stacy Stacy Stacy
was like was like Stacy Stacy Stacy Stacy and I'm like I'm supposed to shake
Stacy and I'm like I'm supposed to shake your hand and get to know you right now.
your hand and get to know you right now. Like this is my whole life you know.
Like this is my whole life you know. Yeah. Although to be fair, like a good
Yeah. Although to be fair, like a good counterpoint to that is it's just like
counterpoint to that is it's just like kids. Like a kid would come in here with
kids. Like a kid would come in here with a [ __ ] stick and and break it all
a [ __ ] stick and and break it all over the floor.
over the floor. Kids are growing. You can have a
Kids are growing. You can have a relationship with the kids and talk to
relationship with the kids and talk to them and increasingly over time it's
them and increasingly over time it's different to 10. They'll stop. Yeah.
different to 10. They'll stop. Yeah. Whereas a 10-year-old dog won't. Even
Whereas a 10-year-old dog won't. Even like a six-year-old, you have a whole
like a six-year-old, you have a whole conversation with them. Like, you know,
conversation with them. Like, you know, something like they're they're I don't
something like they're they're I don't know. That's good. Dogs don't take care
know. That's good. Dogs don't take care of you when you're elderly. That's true.
of you when you're elderly. That's true. Make you happy, but you guys are
Make you happy, but you guys are something. Bad podcast accessories.
something. Bad podcast accessories. You're fine. You're a bad podcast
You're fine. You're a bad podcast accessory for sure. Yeah. Lucy said,
accessory for sure. Yeah. Lucy said, "Yeah, [ __ ] Cora."
"Yeah, [ __ ] Cora." All right. Well, as you predicted, the
All right. Well, as you predicted, the dogs derailed the conversation by the
dogs derailed the conversation by the end and left us. It's God talking. It's
end and left us. It's God talking. It's God talking. I got to be open to that,
God talking. I got to be open to that, too. Meant to be. You know, there's
too. Meant to be. You know, there's things I don't understand about, you
things I don't understand about, you know, maybe God brought them in to
know, maybe God brought them in to naturally end. Well, Lucy said that
naturally end. Well, Lucy said that Coral was born out of Satan's ass, so
Coral was born out of Satan's ass, so check that. Yeah. You got upcoming
check that. Yeah. You got upcoming shows. Tell us about them. Yeah.
shows. Tell us about them. Yeah. Actually, you know what? Can I just kick
Actually, you know what? Can I just kick Cor out and then we can do that? Here.
Cor out and then we can do that? Here. Come here. All right. So, tell us about
Come here. All right. So, tell us about your new tour.
your new tour. Really? It just gets really Jimmy Kimmel
Really? It just gets really Jimmy Kimmel for a second. Yeah. All right. So,
for a second. Yeah. All right. So, what's coming up for you? What are you
what's coming up for you? What are you looking forward to? Um, well, where do
looking forward to? Um, well, where do people find you? Maybe I can maybe I can
people find you? Maybe I can maybe I can make this like a more
make this like a more um holistic statement. Uh I just think
um holistic statement. Uh I just think it's it's important to be focused
it's it's important to be focused building things like building businesses
building things like building businesses and building like uh institutions and
and building like uh institutions and being with people in real life and kind
being with people in real life and kind of talking about these ideas and
of talking about these ideas and building kind of new ways of thinking
building kind of new ways of thinking and uh new culture in this time. So my
and uh new culture in this time. So my my one of my versions of that is like
my one of my versions of that is like I'm you know I'm doing these uh lectures
I'm you know I'm doing these uh lectures like these live lectures straight up
like these live lectures straight up Jordan Peterson style like with a
Jordan Peterson style like with a slideshow. So I have like three full
slideshow. So I have like three full like 90-minute lectures. Um, and they've
like 90-minute lectures. Um, and they've been like really fun and good or I guess
been like really fun and good or I guess they're like 100 minutes is what I wrote
they're like 100 minutes is what I wrote down. Um, but yeah, it's been [ __ ]
down. Um, but yeah, it's been [ __ ] awesome. So, this cjx.com lectures. Um,
awesome. So, this cjx.com lectures. Um, or you know, subscribe to the mailing
or you know, subscribe to the mailing list at
list at cjx.com/subscribe to have first access
cjx.com/subscribe to have first access to the tickets. Um, and this again is
to the tickets. Um, and this again is like in the name of building like a
like in the name of building like a business to be like completely
business to be like completely independent, you know what I mean? To
independent, you know what I mean? To like make art and like enchant people
like make art and like enchant people and have the resources to do it without
and have the resources to do it without like signing your life away to a
like signing your life away to a platform or like a label and stuff. Like
platform or like a label and stuff. Like in order to do that, you need to make a
in order to do that, you need to make a bunch of [ __ ] money. You know what I
bunch of [ __ ] money. You know what I mean? The first
The news is divided. Ground news puts it back together so you can see how many
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