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A.T. Gimbel - How Do I Develop a Product or Service to Sell? - Part Two - AI Summary, Mind Map & Transcript | Entrepreneurship & Innovation Institute | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: A.T. Gimbel - How Do I Develop a Product or Service to Sell? - Part Two
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The core theme is the iterative process of building a successful product and business, emphasizing rigorous customer discovery, problem validation, and a well-aligned go-to-market strategy before significant investment in development.
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foreign [Music]
[Music]
thank you so much so good
um so we um we've tackled the
prototyping question we've tackled
trying to get a team and what does that
look like I think one question that
again you may be tapping before and
trying to make sure that I cover
everything that we are having the chat
you may be talking about this later but
one of the questions we have is once you
release an MVP what's next ah well let's
get to that we get to the product side
thank you keep the questions coming
um we'll we'll pause here in a little
bit and go through another set but
here's a resource that sums up a lot of
what I just talked about but if you have
not read the mom tests uh by Rob
Fitzpatrick I highly encourage you to go
read this it's a short quick book and
the first time I read it I was like man
I wish I had read this 20 years ago
because it shows me all the mistakes I
made in customer Discovery and I see
this over and over again in entrepreneurs
entrepreneurs
and so the reason it's called the mom
test is you go to your mom and say mom
I've got this great idea to do XYZ what
do you think and what do you think Mom
says mom says that's a great idea son
and then you go to your friends and your
friends say that's great and you go to
other people that's interesting yeah
that's a good idea
the trick is
people are inherently nice
everybody will tell you you have a good
idea you have an interesting idea yeah
I'd use that yeah I'd pay for that and
the reality is they're just being nice
they're not giving you the true feedback
and so the mom test encourages you to
really focus on the problem like I was
talking about before don't talk about
your idea at the beginning at the
beginning it's 100 problem zero percent idea
idea
until you really vet this is a real
problem that's not biased it's
unprompted you're not leading the
witness about what do you think about
this they're saying it on their own and
then over time as you move down through
that framework and get to some of the
customer side then you can start
bringing in some potential Solutions but
really start with the problem and this
is one of the things I see from
entrepreneurs all the time one of my
first questions I asked entrepreneurs
review of them is tell me what you learn
in customer discovery
and there's a lot of people that give
simple answers that say everybody loves it
it
I said well why well everybody said it's
a great idea
those are usually misleading answers
they can give you a false perception uh
that you're on to something so a better
answer would be well I started talking
to 50 potential customers in this space
and here's what they described as their problem
problem
and then as I get forward with them this
is what they told me was most important
to solve and so that's what I'm going to
focus on that's a much better answer uh
than than the previous so highly
encourage you to read this book because
it really focuses you and gives you some
practical advice on how to really ask
questions about the problem and not
about your solution because the minute
you start talking about your solution
you're already biasing uh the answers
all right so I spent a lot of time you
sort of you know free building anything
because I think it's so important to
building a product but now I'm going to
move into some of the elements of go to
market of which product is one I think
those all tie together to really proving
something uh that customers want
so what is go to market think of it as
everything we need to deliver our
product or service and this is important
because it's not just marketing their
strategy their sales there's Finance
there's product all of these things are
critical to building an effective go to
market strategy and they all have to
align you could have the best product in
the world
but if you don't have the right sales
strategy or marketing strategy it's
going to struggle right
um and so you have to align all these it
takes many iterations but I'm going to
talk through a few of those
but this is the coming out of customer
discovery you should have a hypothesis
on these questions and as you start
launching and building your product
these are ones that you want to
continually test who is my Target
customer very specifically what is my
value proposition why would they buy
this they're going to increase Revenue
they're going to lower cost they're
going to how do I price my product
what channels do I sell it through what
market trends am I taking advantage of
that'll help make it easier to sell and
then how do I tell my story around this
because the other reality is right
you put yourself in the shoes of whoever
you're talking to they're pitched by
entrepreneurs and products countlessly
all day
and so what's your story that's going to make
make
your solution and your understanding of
their problem different so these are
good questions to to Think Through
during the discovery side but then as
you start to move forward into go to
market so simple framework I'll use here
to talk through go to market product
price place and promotion and there's
much more detail we go into each from a
touch on each one of them
a little bit and some of the key things
for each so first on the products that's
part of this session right how do you
build the product
so we mentioned before you do all that
research and customer Discovery before building
building
now I've got some of those customers
with authentic demand leaning in well
now what does that look like the first
thing I I talk about here is building
with development Partners these are
those three to five that are willing to
pay something to build a first version
with you
and I don't like free in most cases
because they're not committed to doing it
it
but it's something trivial
a dollar something greater than zero
that makes them put some skin in the
game improve they're willing to take
their wallet out for something that's
you know even if it's a trivial dollar amount
amount
so how does that work so I'd get these
three to five customers they get them to
sign up pay to build it with me but now
it's a much more iterative build with
them it's not me going back in my
basement and building out these 20
product features and then coming back
and saying here it is
it's me building with them hey it could
look like this great let me go build
this show you this hey here's what this
would look like oh tweak this oh here
and they're involved in the process and
what I find is you get much better and
quicker feedback and they'll tell you
that still needs to have these two other
things before I can fully use in my
workflow or like this is good enough now
I want to go live with this now and then
can you also build X or Y or Z so it's a
very iterative one and I encourage you
to build with development Partners as
you start building your first version of
the product
because the other thing is
people also back to that Mom test people
love you tell you oh yeah at uh once you
build XYZ then come back and we'll buy
it and so what did I do I went back and
I spent time and money building XYZ and
I came back and I said here it is and
then they said well I also need ABC
I I don't like the idea of building with
the promise that they'll buy I want to
see that they're willing to put some
money down to then go build it with me
and that's a much truer sign of you're
on to building a good product the right problem
problem
second bullet I'll say is more features
is usually not the answer one of the
things I've learned with customers is
their default answer everything is
another feature I just want a button
that does this I want a report that does
this I want a screen that does this
that's their default that's just how
most customers think
and so what happens is you can then end
up with a product that's full of all
these features and guess what every
feature takes time and money you want to
be laser focused back to that you know
Discovery side what's my unique Target
segment one problem with one feature set
that I can deliver 10x better and be
great at one or two things and don't try
and compete with the Salesforce from our
example on 50 features as a startup your
superpower is Speed and Agility not the
ability to build endless feature sets
and so when you try and build lots of
features you end up being just okay at a
bunch you end up with a lot of technical
debt you got to go fix later you get a
bloated product versus go solve one
problem right now with one feature set
that's 10x better and they'll start
using and paying for that so really
focus versus just building more features
because I can't because again I hear
from a lot of entrepreneurs yep I'm go
raising a million dollars to go build
these six features and then the sales
are going to take off
usually it's not how it works
the last two things here yeah I
mentioned the Storyteller but one of the
things as a product owner and as the CEO
or founder you're the head of product as
well as the head of sales and head of
marketing and all the things at the
beginning right
what is that story and so back to the
problem I loved seeing the ones who can
describe the story so let me tell you
about Martha Martha is a marketer that
struggles to produce endless ads across
all these social media channels today
and so her problem is she doesn't have
the time or the knowledge to make them
all videos and do so one of the things
that we did was we helped somebody like
Martha take her static content and produce
produce
video content in less than five minutes
versus the five hours it takes today and
here's why but you're telling a story
around the type of user the problems
they have and what you're doing is
you're getting that potential buyer or
person you're talking to
I get it now I understand that person
that's me that's my Persona so you tell
that story about their personas versus
I've got a product that does XYZ and
you're pitching your product
put it in the frame of them and not
about you and then the last thing
Senator the universe means is we talked
about being conversant in sales
marketing engineering because as you're
building the product you got to be able
to make sure you're getting the sales
feedback and the marketing and
coordinating uh with those functions
all right Richard should I pause for a
minute I see some more chat stuff coming
in yes so we have a question
um from Prashant
um I just made sure
um there's some on the call so the
question is I have an idea that would
work and even nowhere to start I need a
technical partner a data scientist how
do I one meet one and then two protect
my interest so he or she were they
doesn't run away with this idea and do
their own thing
great so first part I'd answer back to
what I said at the beginning
I would ask why do you know you have a
good idea probably is but like what
customer Discovery have you done and
what people do you have leaning in to
tell you why it's a good idea and if
they're leaning in
how can they help build it with you and
maybe they have some of those folks on
their team that will help you build it
um there's I know like a data scientist
like I know at Georgia Tech and I'm sure
Georgia State there's plenty of folks
that are majoring or using stuff like
that there's probably places and groups
you can go to meet people like that uh
to help you iterate through that and the
second part about your idea this is the
trade-off in in life right that again
the more protective the less resources
you'll have available to help you
um and the less feedback you'll get on
whether it's truly a good idea or not
yes somebody could take your idea and
run with it but again my experience is
the execution is far more important than
the idea and So within reason finding
people that are trusted or referred and
having conversations and you can even
test them a little bit before you folds
the deep deep secrets of your idea right
um but I err on the side of just being
more transparent than Knox I think
you'll you'll get somewhere bigger and
faster than if you're more secretive
but I know there are different opinions so
so
thanks A.T now I I've kind of answered
this in the chat as well but for those
on the call
um if you have a non-technical idea
um what all the principles that you're
talking about still apply
um I want to make sure that you're able
to answer that I've answered that in the
chat as well but I want to make sure
that um so you have a non-technical idea
right so like a fashion or candle or you
know one of those visits that may not
have a some of them will tie in Tech
they're Tech enabled but not necessarily
Tech focused yeah so the building of a
product may be different but the same
framework around problem Market customer
still all holds true
I I meet lots of folks doing
non-technical businesses the same thing
I ask about tell me what you learned in
customer Discovery and so all my friends
want this
well what does that mean well who what
type of friends what do they look like
what do they need what's their problem
understanding those things around
problem and marketing customers are
still just as important no matter what
thank you so much I think at the moment
that's kind of the questions we have
lingering and so yes all right I'll keep
going I'll get to some examples if I
know we're getting closer to the time so
I'll move a little a little quicker here
one thing I'll say I'm pricing there's a
lot of things but we've got an Roi
calculator on our spreadsheet but one
thing to think about is what is the
value you're delivering and the reason I
say this is like look
you could have a product that's priced
at ten dollars and nobody would buy it
because they don't think they're getting
enough value from it it's not worth ten
dollars you could have a product priced
at a million dollars but that company is
getting several million dollars of value
and they're it's a no-brainer to sign up
so one thing I think about with pricing
is how do you define the value your
customers got to receive so there's hard
value which is this is going to help
them boost revenue for their business or
save costs that's the best kind it's
easy to quantify and show
but the vast majority of folks have what
I call soft value they say this is going
to be make us more efficient or save us time
time
all true but those tend to be more nice
to have ideas that are harder to
consistently sell and retain customers
and so one trick I've learned with this
is you could have that efficiency
so let's just say I'm going to make a
marketer 25 more efficient
well great that's good but then when the
marketer goes to get approval from the
CFO for the budget the CFO says well
what did you do with that efficiency and
if the marketer can't say well I spent
more time in campaigns and got this many
more leads or I didn't have to hire
these Consultants or I didn't have to
fill this role that's where it starts to
become a hard value so help your customers
customers
take the next step from yeah it made me
more efficient or save me time to what
did that efficiency or Time Savings mean
in terms of dollars so I'd encourage
all right on the
marketing side you know sort of the the
product price place and promotions on
the the play side there's a couple
different levers here that have I think
are important one is there's a lot of
things that you control sort of this
owned media you can build your own blog
on your website and have your message on
your own social channels uh one things I
love to test ideas is having a landing
page before you've built anything you
put a landing page I've got something
that's gonna do XYZ click here to sign
up uh coming fall 2023. how many people
click to sign up and each person that
clicks that's a free customer Discovery
call to follow up with them and learn
more so there's a lot of things that you
can control that don't really cost much
money and I encourage folks to really
start there because you're in full
control of that message uh and how you
interact there so know that there's a
lot of things you own
the next level is ones that you earn
you know referrals from friends or folks
in Industry you may be able to get in a
publication or some PR or you get
customers to leave some reviews there's
lots of things you can do here and
encourage but it takes a little bit
extra step uh to get those about your
business and then the last one obviously
you can pay for certain things whether
it's you know ads on a Google or social
platform or or other things but those
sort of tend to come last you can test a
few things there but as you're building
the idea I tend to start less there
dabble that maybe a little bit but focus
on what you can control on the own side
as you're getting going with the business
business
and then the the fourth P product price
place and promotion the other thing you
want to think about as you're building
your product is how is it helping people
get through my sales funnel and so
here's a very basic sales funnel but it
applies to building a product how is
this helping what else do you need to
help so the first thing is awareness how
do people even know to look for my
product and so we mentioned there's some
of the things you can do around you're
writing about it on your blog and you're
an expert in your field there you're
running some search ads that are pulling
people in you're attending a conference
there's a lot of different ways but one
part is building that awareness
the second part is then the
consideration right so now that they've
got my awareness I know that company X I
should look at
what do I have available on my website
demos white papers trials what sort of
things get them to consider and pricing
and and take a look at it deeper
down to the next one sort of the
conversion side how does my products
help get them across the Finish Line to
sign what do they see what do they not
see as as customers sign up I love
asking them why did you sign up what was
it about my product or if they don't
what was it about it you know that
prohibited you from and learn because
that all helps you refine your product I
mean it could be the product itself it
could be the messaging it could be the
value there's lots of those go to market
levers and then ultimately this is the
secret sauce here down the end so once
you've done that there's still more
product work around loyalty so once you
sign them are they going to stay are
they going to renew and then advocacy
are they going to tell their friends
so one of the businesses that we're
fortunate enough to work with uh hear
from beginning in Atlanta is coming out
calendly and one of the things that they
did that was so amazing is they nailed
that loyalty and advocacy piece that
they had a simple button
or a little logo at the bottom of every
meeting invite that said powered by
calendly and so Risha would send me when
it first got started a calendly invite
and I'd see powered by counting I was
like well that was that was simple and
then I'd see another one and another one
and before you know it I saw a couple
and I said wait a minute I should go try this
this
and then I would go try it oh it was a
free version great and then I wish it
had these other things so I could do
different meeting types oh it does
and then wait several of us in the
office all have it we should get our
boss to pay for the premium version and
so we go and get is a business sale but
the point was they built an amazing
model of loyalty and advocacy that
helped make their funnel even easier
because their customers were creating
their own awareness and consideration
and conversion for them so they had to
spend next to zero dollars in sales and
marketing to really get the virality
going so this is one example but the
point of this is know that how you build
your product and evolve your product is
a function of what you're finding here
as you may find I'm getting a ton of
awareness but little conversion why is
that how do I revolve it or like
everybody that's coming through is
converting I'm just not getting the
awareness why is that and how do I
refine the product uh in the message there
there
all right so let me pause there reach
any other questions where I go into two
examples with specifics of companies and
how they did this no I think everyone is
in tune with what you're saying and so
um I think on the edge of our seats
trying to figure out what's the next
step that you're going to tell us how to
do so all right let me give you two
examples of companies we started in our studio
studio
and how it went through the process so
green Z is a company that builds
software to make commercial lawnmowers autonomous
autonomous
so how did we move through the process
started with the problem
problem was
there are tasks that are
boring repetitive and dangerous and
humans don't like those tasks
humans love challenging tasks or you
know things that aren't dangerous
they're fun but boring repetitive
dangerous tasks people don't like and
lawn mowing happens to be one of those
my first business I ever started as an
entrepreneur in high school was a lawn
mowing business and I can tell you uh
being out in the August heat riding
mowers back and forth all day is not a
fun job it's boring it's repetitive and
so what we found was there were lots of
folks that are having a hard time
finding the labor to do lawn mowing and
so we start with an idea well what about
maybe like a residential little little
roombas for the yard and what we found
was there's some technical challenges
but people were already doing that so we
started talking to to other folks like
commercial landscapers that have a truck
that pulls up five guys jump out and
they ride mowers back and forth all day
in the hot sun on like a 10-acre park or field
field
boring repetitive but they can't find
enough labor so they have to not take
deals or have
the labor not show up and then they
can't do it
so interesting so we started riding
around with some of them what does their
day look like you know one of the things
we saw right is that for residential the
yard's got to be perfect and look really
good and there's Hills and there's
obstacles and there's kids running
around well for a Big Field
they're usually flat there's usually
fewer obstacles
okay that's interesting we started in
some of the market well with autonomous
vehicles and the cars all of that
technology that's getting better and
cheaper can be applied to lawn mowing
and hasn't historically been done that
way right and as we look forward that
there was no question that five to ten
years from now and this was you know
four or five years ago
there's gonna be autonomous lawnmowers
everywhere nobody wants this job right
they like to do the edging and the
trimming and stuff that looks good not
the boring stuff
and so we said all right
problem check Market check go to the
customer side start talking to folks and
people were like
getting those lean in questions right
and so one of the things we did we put
up a landing page had built nothing
again not touch building a product that
said we've got an autonomous lawnmower
that can do XYZ click here to sign up
and be on the pre-order for the coming year
year
the number of folks that clicked on that
that said we've been waiting for this
how many can I buy what dealers do I get
it from what does it cost does it do
this type or does it do that type all
signs of authentic demand and buying and
so what did we do back to my development
partner's comment we went and found two
of the largest landscapers in the
country that said I want to pay to go
build this with you
and so started iterating with them of
course the first versions don't do all
the features don't fully work but you're
building it with them getting the
feedback in the field versus in the lab
that's the other advantage of building
with customers is you we learned what
happened when you went into a ditch or
when it overheated when it was 110
degrees versus if we were building it in
a controlled lab we wouldn't have
learned those things
and so building those early things with
develop partners and then now ultimately
starting to scale that up across
multiple dealers multiple developers
different motor types we got several
different manufacturers we're building
these but the point was we went through
that process of problem Market customer
iterated through that a couple times got
some development partners and used that
to start building up uh and growing so
so that was an example uh with with
green Z
I'll give you one other example here
another company we started so back to
you know the question about
non-technical businesses this is more of
a non-technical business a company
called in Town Golf Club
say indoor golf and Social Club
uh right in the heart of Buckhead
and the concept here was well we started
with the problem problem was
there are people that love golf but it
takes too much time or it's too expensive
expensive
and if you look anymore the land in a
city is far more valuable
to put buildings and apartments and
other things than to put a golf course
on it and golf courses aren't very Green
from an environment perspective
but yet there's places like Topgolf that
show there's alternative models for golf
they're food and entertainment we looked
around in Korea there are these indoor
golf simulator places uh golfs on that
there's five times as many as there are
Starbucks in Korea so in other
geographies there was a need for this so
we started doing more research and
tuning in and really found that there's
advantages of country clubs or private clubs
clubs
but people don't like to pretentiousness
or it's not accessible or the cost is
available but there's people like Golf
and want to be able to play golf at
seven in the morning seven at night when
it's dark when it's hot when it's rainy
when it's cold when it's snowy and hey
instead of taking five hours it takes me
30 minutes to go play around a golf at a
place like this I know by the way
there's a community of folks that are
like-minded and I can and hang out with
and have have stuff so
how do we do this we went through some
of those problem areas went through the market
market
started talking to customers
and again before we built anything we
wanted to go sell pre-sell 100
memberships to this place with nothing
built no drawings just an idea and we
sold 100 memberships with nothing no product
product
so then we said all right great we think
there's something there we went and
raised some money then go start doing
some drawings and here's what the place
can look like and and work with some
construction firms to just build it and
finding a location
and so as we started going through that
process we wanted to sell the next 300
memberships before it even opened to
prove the authentic demand and so we
went and sold those next 300 and now
it's fully sold out has a waiting list
we're open locations and multiple cities
around the country but back to the point
of really vetting the idea before you
start building we were able to pre-sell
memberships just on the idea of building
no product and again had it not happened
great we were just pivoted and revised
the idea then but it's so much easier to
change and pivot your idea before you've
built anything versus once you've built
something it gets that much harder so
you this is an example again of saying
how do you test that customer's
governing authentic demand to know what
the product needs to be before you start
building it and then you're that much
more confident uh to go build it and grow
grow
all right two examples there before I
wrap up reset any other other questions
or wrap up here and then we'll Circle back
back
we don't have any questions but I had a
thought for those who are building
non-technical things which your examples
are fantastic about giving a technical
and non-technical aspect of it so if you
have a smaller product say you're
selling pies or something would you
recommend say going to say a farmer's
market or you know just places like that
that are simple that you can test out
your idea or building as you said a
landing page what would be your advice
for both the great both are great ideas
you know incredible landing page and say
we're going to build these pies again I
would ask a lot of the questions of well
who is my Target customer why are they
not happy with existing pies what's
going to make my pies different or
better right really understanding those
questions and talking to folks right and
so having an idea of that again before
you're even building or baking pies and
then once you've got an idea then that's
a great idea go to the local farmers
market you bake five or ten
sell them talk to people get feedback
right or show up at you know an event
sponsor some you know show up and give
them away free at a Georgia State event
right and get some feedback
um but I love that idea of just testing
in small batches uh and learning before
you go all in on building a location and
and stuff like that
thank you we have no questions at the
moment but again fantastic information
that we're getting I see Justin taking
notes and all of that so um all right so
well let me wrap let me wrap up here and
then we can go to any other questions or
any other topics you want me to cover but
but
you know this entrepreneurship is hard
um it it is you know the the numbers
show that most businesses don't succeed
but I think it's a fun journey and
whether it's successful or not most
folks I talk to say that experience was
worth it for all the learnings of how to
build and one of the things I like is
that you're in control as an
entrepreneur a lot of things in life you
can't control but as an entrepreneur you
can control a little more uh than most
and so here's a couple of takeaways I
have just you know for everything we
talked about is the first is you know
build a product that solves a must-have
Mission critical problem really spend
the time on the problems anything you
take away from this don't go build a
product go prove the problem and the
authentic demand first because it just
sets you up for Success if it's there
and if it's not that's okay like in our
studio we go after problems and we do
more customer Discovery we realize
that's not the right place to go and we
pivot it before we built stuff and so
that's okay that's normal and that's a
good thing but really spend the time to
make sure before you start building that
it's a must-have Mission critical
problem you're solving and all about the
problem not about your solution
second is just
find Target customers with a clear value
proposition so again back to the pi
example there's plenty of Pies out there
people like pies but what is your
specific Target customer what's
different about your pies how do you
Market to them differently how do you
sell your product differently what's the
value prop that makes people say this is
the best pie for this type of person
with this you know needs right
um and then the the third bullet point
is we mentioned some of those go to
market pieces that really tie into
making the product effective around
product price place and promotion but
that's an iterative process too and you
have to get that right to really start
scaling up your business as well so even
if you've proved there's a real problem
with authentic demand and you build a
early version of a product with
development Partners the next step to
start making it scalable is aligning and
adjusting that go to market strategy
where you're tweaking the product you're
tweaking the price you're tweaking the
promotion you're tweaking the place uh
and iterating through all that uh to
ultimately help you continue to scale up
and then here if you go to our website I
mentioned we've got lots of resources
there's more detail on all these things
like in each section I've got questions
to ask blog posts about it uh tools and
templates like what you have to feel to
move on to the next step uh then we've
got you know lots of other events and
things on there as well so encourage you
to check out our website Atlanta Ventures
Ventures
dot com and with that Risha all sort of
pause and answer any other questions
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