0:00 perhaps you could give us a sort of
0:02 snapshot view of your reasons for being
0:04 an atheist then we can look at those
0:06 arguments in more detail well my reasons
0:09 for being an atheist are simple enough I
0:11 just simply don't see any compelling
0:13 evidence to believe in deities of any
0:15 kind male or female or
0:18 androgynous um of any culture any race
0:22 any philosophy I don't see that we
0:24 should have to invent gods for things
0:26 that we don't understand and can't
0:28 presently explain
0:30 uh since the concept of if Gods first
0:33 arose and that must have been many tens
0:35 of thousands of years ago with our
0:37 species many things have become
0:39 explained we don't have a rain God any
0:41 longer at least we in the civilization
0:44 as we know it don't have a rain God
0:46 because we understand quite thoroughly
0:48 what causes rain but we still have a a
0:51 God who promises us immortality and
0:53 rewards and Paradise and whatnot um
0:57 things that I find untenable I find them
0:59 unex acceptable they are not necessary
1:02 for My Philosophy to explain the world
1:04 as much as I possibly can that doesn't
1:07 mean that there aren't Mysteries that uh
1:09 sort of bager all of us we'd all like to
1:12 have answers to Mysteries but to invent
1:14 deities in order to explain them I think
1:16 is juvenile okay so you say there there
1:19 are there just no evidence that that
1:22 that's of foundation of your atheism
1:25 certainly a lot of people would say but
1:27 wait a moment isn't there just evidence
1:28 all around us I mean
1:30 fairly common argument is is sometimes
1:32 called the argument from design that the
1:35 world is very complex It's s
1:37 sufficiently complex that we couldn't
1:38 explain it were it not for the the
1:41 presence of a deity uh I take it that
1:44 doesn't convince you could you try to
1:46 say why not it appears when we look at
1:48 the world as if it has to have been
1:50 designed by some sort of intelligence
1:52 but that isn't necessarily so we are
1:55 relying on our experience our limited
1:57 experience of the immediate World in in
2:00 uh in a small time segment that we
2:02 occupi during our lives in order to make
2:04 that judgment it is inescapable that
2:07 given enough time and enough
2:09 combinations and permutations of
2:11 molecules and atoms in order to make
2:13 molecules uh that certain basic forms of
2:16 life are going to develop and that those
2:18 forms of life are going to refine
2:20 themselves and in most cases will uh be
2:23 more and more sophisticated while at the
2:25 same time the vast majority of the new
2:28 species the new variety that come along
2:30 die out because they're not viable it's
2:33 the ones that lived the ones that
2:35 survived that we see today and they are
2:37 very complex we hear often the story
2:40 about well how an organ as very
2:43 sensitive and uh and complex and uh and
2:46 sophisticated as the eye ever developed
2:48 by accident it didn't develop by
2:50 accident it it developed by a process
2:52 called Evolution which is a series of
2:55 experiments that nature plays by uh
2:59 repetition with billions and billions of
3:02 experiments happening every second for
3:04 many billions of years it has to refine
3:06 itself if there's anything to this
3:09 survivability of this particular species
3:12 and of course if there isn't the species
3:13 vanishes all we have is the successes of
3:16 billions and billions of experiments
3:18 down through the years that's all we
3:20 have to show
3:21 for you you've provided reason a sort of
3:25 synopsis of view of why the design
3:26 argument doesn't work and you you've
3:28 tried to to say that the basic reason
3:31 why you're an
3:32 atheist is that you just don't see any
3:35 evidence does that would that mean or is
3:37 it fair to say that that means that you
3:39 think that people who are theists are
3:42 stupid or uninformed how how would you
3:44 describe them how would you how would
3:46 you explain the fact that so many people
3:48 do seem to be theists I think the reason
3:51 that people believe these things by and
3:53 large is that they don't really
3:55 understand how the real world works the
3:57 real world is um a mechanistic world
4:01 it's a it's electrical it's
4:03 electromagnetic in nature it's physical
4:06 in nature it actually works it's a large
4:09 Machinery a very complex Machinery made
4:12 that way by The evolutionary process and
4:15 that includes the organisms that are
4:16 here and the geology of the planet that
4:18 we live on I think that most people have
4:21 very very little knowledge about that
4:23 sort of thing and when they start to
4:26 investigate it they're absolutely
4:27 dumbfounded they're confused and
4:29 confounded they're overrun by the
4:31 problem if they understood a little
4:34 better some of the mechanics of how the
4:36 real world Works they would understand
4:38 the process much better okay so part of
4:41 it is is simply that they're uninformed
4:45 they're uninformed in fact you talked
4:47 about there being mysteries in the world
4:48 things that we can't explain and you
4:51 acknowledge that there are such things
4:52 well not that we can't explain not that
4:55 we can't explain at this
4:57 moment and and perhaps in part of your
4:59 point is that even some of the
5:01 explanations that are there now are not
5:05 explanations that that many of the
5:06 people in Street would know or
5:08 understand and they also may be
5:10 explanations that are not quite correct
5:12 you look at Newton compared to Einstein
5:14 now Newton came up with s = UT plus half
5:17 a t^2 the simple law of of motion of
5:20 bodies falling bodies and whatnot and
5:22 that covers the world very nicely as
5:24 Newton knew it but he didn't know about
5:27 subatomic particles which don't obey
5:29 those laws at all or about things as
5:31 large as galaxies and quazar and black
5:33 holes they don't obey those laws either
5:35 but then when we get into relativity
5:37 such as Einstein and quantum physics
5:39 which is a large group of people Beyond
5:41 Einstein we begin to understand how
5:44 these things uh are explained and S = UT
5:47 plus half a t^2 is not wrong it's simply
5:50 buried in all the more complex um
5:54 theories and equations that Express
5:56 really how the world Works Newton wasn't
5:58 wrong he just covered of more limited
6:01 aspect of the universe a smaller part of
6:03 the spectrum so science corrects itself
6:05 as it goes along that's something that
6:07 things like religion don't do they never
6:09 correct themselves they make up dogmas
6:12 those dogmas are established they're
6:14 axioms they don't go anywhere beyond
6:16 that they just simply say this is true
6:18 and always will be true and I don't want
6:20 to hear any discussion about it I think
6:22 that's very close minded and I think
6:25 that the that science really has the
6:27 attitude that we should be going after
6:29 which is show me I want to know more
6:32 we've talked some about the arguments uh
6:34 for the existence of God why people
6:36 think they might have evidence the other
6:38 way which people often go when they
6:40 describe why they are theists is they
6:43 will say or talk about
6:46 faith how how would you understand
6:49 claims about
6:52 faith Define your term for me well I
6:55 don't know I I guess the basic idea is
6:57 that that the average person
7:00 who use the language will say there
7:01 mysteries in the world of things we
7:03 can't
7:04 explain uh that we have to have some
7:08 kind of Faith either to provide that
7:11 explanation to provide meaning in life
7:13 to provide
7:14 morality whatever it might happen to be
7:17 well people say that I have no faith I
7:19 have more faith than the average person
7:21 I think but it's not the kind of faith
7:23 that they have there are only two
7:25 varieties of faiths so far as I see it
7:27 Blind Faith and reasoned faith I have
7:30 reasoned faith in the the probability
7:32 the very strong probability that the sun
7:35 will rise again tomorrow as it always
7:37 has that is that the Earth will rotate
7:39 uh in the direction of the sun and the
7:41 sun will appear to rise off the horizan
7:44 I know that from past experience and I
7:46 know that it's been going on for many
7:48 millions of years and I expect that it
7:50 will go on for many millions more I do
7:52 that based on reason and expectation and
7:55 past experience but blind Fai is oh I'm
7:58 going to live live forever I just know
8:00 it when I die I won't really die I'll go
8:02 someplace else there I don't want to
8:04 think anything more about that I've just
8:06 decided That's the Way It Is I've
8:08 decided that's what I'm going to accept
8:10 that's blind fate because there is no
8:12 evidence for that whatsoever the kind of
8:14 faith that I have is faith uh based upon
8:17 evidence I have faith in my friends I
8:19 have faith in the the chair that I'm
8:21 sitting on I've been sitting on this for
8:22 many years now it hasn't collapsed yet
8:25 when it does collapse my faith will be
8:27 broken in this chair and I'll even get a
8:29 new one or to fix it but faith is a very
8:32 useful part of our Lives of course if
8:35 it's based upon experience and upon
8:37 evidence other people when they talk
8:39 about their beliefs will say they've had
8:43 certain experiences that they've seen
8:46 God work that prayer has been answered
8:49 as a former magician I mean how do you
8:51 how do you evaluate these sorts of
8:53 claims what do you what do you have to
8:54 say about them let's handle the uh their
8:56 prayers have been answered what
8:58 percentage of their prayers have been
9:00 answered that's always the question that
9:02 I ask and they say oh always I never get
9:04 never have any failure that way what do
9:06 you pray for do you pray that you'll
9:07 have enough food to put on the table
9:09 tomorrow and you do have it but that's
9:11 largely due to your own efforts is it
9:13 not yes but uh it's possible that I
9:16 might not have found the food or might
9:17 not have had the money to buy the food
9:19 that's that's all possible too these
9:21 people are very selective in their
9:23 thinking I hear people say all the time
9:25 I've made pray prayers and I've never
9:28 had one of my prayers
9:30 refused but I find that very difficult
9:33 to believe because if I then ask them to
9:35 pray for something they say oh no no it
9:37 has to be something that originates with
9:38 me it has to have be something that had
9:40 a real positive need but look at the
9:43 prayers that went up from daa and aitz
9:46 look at the millions of people who
9:48 prayed that they would not die and they
9:51 did die viciously cruy savagely and they
9:55 prayed not to die where was God at that
9:58 time we can easily say oh but God works
10:01 in mysterious ways he had his own reason
10:03 for doing that that's a rationalization
10:06 that I'm sorry I find very difficult to
10:09 accept what I'd like to do is now turn
10:12 back and talk a little bit about this
10:14 idea of the importance of critical
10:16 thinking skills when you say critical
10:18 thinking skills what exactly does that
10:20 imply and how does a person inculcate
10:22 those instead of accepting things that
10:24 are published in the media or because
10:26 they appeared on Oprah or because
10:28 someone wrote a besteller book about it
10:30 uh look into these things investigate
10:33 them start from the bottom go to the
10:35 library and look up the uh the opposite
10:37 point of view perhaps and put them side
10:40 by side okay 20 second summary on why
10:43 you're atheist I just don't find
10:46 sufficient evidence out there that would
10:48 make me create or maintain the belief in
10:50 a deity of any
10:52 sort all right thank you very much for
10:54 appearing on the show
10:56 today
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