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James Randi On Atheism & Religious Faith
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perhaps you could give us a sort of
snapshot view of your reasons for being
an atheist then we can look at those
arguments in more detail well my reasons
for being an atheist are simple enough I
just simply don't see any compelling
evidence to believe in deities of any
kind male or female or
androgynous um of any culture any race
any philosophy I don't see that we
should have to invent gods for things
that we don't understand and can't
presently explain
uh since the concept of if Gods first
arose and that must have been many tens
of thousands of years ago with our
species many things have become
explained we don't have a rain God any
longer at least we in the civilization
as we know it don't have a rain God
because we understand quite thoroughly
what causes rain but we still have a a
God who promises us immortality and
rewards and Paradise and whatnot um
things that I find untenable I find them
unex acceptable they are not necessary
for My Philosophy to explain the world
as much as I possibly can that doesn't
mean that there aren't Mysteries that uh
sort of bager all of us we'd all like to
have answers to Mysteries but to invent
deities in order to explain them I think
is juvenile okay so you say there there
are there just no evidence that that
that's of foundation of your atheism
certainly a lot of people would say but
wait a moment isn't there just evidence
all around us I mean
fairly common argument is is sometimes
called the argument from design that the
world is very complex It's s
sufficiently complex that we couldn't
explain it were it not for the the
presence of a deity uh I take it that
doesn't convince you could you try to
say why not it appears when we look at
the world as if it has to have been
designed by some sort of intelligence
but that isn't necessarily so we are
relying on our experience our limited
experience of the immediate World in in
uh in a small time segment that we
occupi during our lives in order to make
that judgment it is inescapable that
given enough time and enough
combinations and permutations of
molecules and atoms in order to make
molecules uh that certain basic forms of
life are going to develop and that those
forms of life are going to refine
themselves and in most cases will uh be
more and more sophisticated while at the
same time the vast majority of the new
species the new variety that come along
die out because they're not viable it's
the ones that lived the ones that
survived that we see today and they are
very complex we hear often the story
about well how an organ as very
sensitive and uh and complex and uh and
sophisticated as the eye ever developed
by accident it didn't develop by
accident it it developed by a process
called Evolution which is a series of
experiments that nature plays by uh
repetition with billions and billions of
experiments happening every second for
many billions of years it has to refine
itself if there's anything to this
survivability of this particular species
and of course if there isn't the species
vanishes all we have is the successes of
billions and billions of experiments
down through the years that's all we
have to show
for you you've provided reason a sort of
synopsis of view of why the design
argument doesn't work and you you've
tried to to say that the basic reason
why you're an
atheist is that you just don't see any
evidence does that would that mean or is
it fair to say that that means that you
think that people who are theists are
stupid or uninformed how how would you
describe them how would you how would
you explain the fact that so many people
do seem to be theists I think the reason
that people believe these things by and
large is that they don't really
understand how the real world works the
real world is um a mechanistic world
it's a it's electrical it's
electromagnetic in nature it's physical
in nature it actually works it's a large
Machinery a very complex Machinery made
that way by The evolutionary process and
that includes the organisms that are
here and the geology of the planet that
we live on I think that most people have
very very little knowledge about that
sort of thing and when they start to
investigate it they're absolutely
dumbfounded they're confused and
confounded they're overrun by the
problem if they understood a little
better some of the mechanics of how the
real world Works they would understand
the process much better okay so part of
it is is simply that they're uninformed
they're uninformed in fact you talked
about there being mysteries in the world
things that we can't explain and you
acknowledge that there are such things
well not that we can't explain not that
we can't explain at this
moment and and perhaps in part of your
point is that even some of the
explanations that are there now are not
explanations that that many of the
people in Street would know or
understand and they also may be
explanations that are not quite correct
you look at Newton compared to Einstein
now Newton came up with s = UT plus half
a t^2 the simple law of of motion of
bodies falling bodies and whatnot and
that covers the world very nicely as
Newton knew it but he didn't know about
subatomic particles which don't obey
those laws at all or about things as
large as galaxies and quazar and black
holes they don't obey those laws either
but then when we get into relativity
such as Einstein and quantum physics
which is a large group of people Beyond
Einstein we begin to understand how
these things uh are explained and S = UT
plus half a t^2 is not wrong it's simply
buried in all the more complex um
theories and equations that Express
really how the world Works Newton wasn't
wrong he just covered of more limited
aspect of the universe a smaller part of
the spectrum so science corrects itself
as it goes along that's something that
things like religion don't do they never
correct themselves they make up dogmas
those dogmas are established they're
axioms they don't go anywhere beyond
that they just simply say this is true
and always will be true and I don't want
to hear any discussion about it I think
that's very close minded and I think
that the that science really has the
attitude that we should be going after
which is show me I want to know more
we've talked some about the arguments uh
for the existence of God why people
think they might have evidence the other
way which people often go when they
describe why they are theists is they
will say or talk about
faith how how would you understand
claims about
faith Define your term for me well I
don't know I I guess the basic idea is
that that the average person
who use the language will say there
mysteries in the world of things we
can't
explain uh that we have to have some
kind of Faith either to provide that
explanation to provide meaning in life
to provide
morality whatever it might happen to be
well people say that I have no faith I
have more faith than the average person
I think but it's not the kind of faith
that they have there are only two
varieties of faiths so far as I see it
Blind Faith and reasoned faith I have
reasoned faith in the the probability
the very strong probability that the sun
will rise again tomorrow as it always
has that is that the Earth will rotate
uh in the direction of the sun and the
sun will appear to rise off the horizan
I know that from past experience and I
know that it's been going on for many
millions of years and I expect that it
will go on for many millions more I do
that based on reason and expectation and
past experience but blind Fai is oh I'm
going to live live forever I just know
it when I die I won't really die I'll go
someplace else there I don't want to
think anything more about that I've just
decided That's the Way It Is I've
decided that's what I'm going to accept
that's blind fate because there is no
evidence for that whatsoever the kind of
faith that I have is faith uh based upon
evidence I have faith in my friends I
have faith in the the chair that I'm
sitting on I've been sitting on this for
many years now it hasn't collapsed yet
when it does collapse my faith will be
broken in this chair and I'll even get a
new one or to fix it but faith is a very
useful part of our Lives of course if
it's based upon experience and upon
evidence other people when they talk
about their beliefs will say they've had
certain experiences that they've seen
God work that prayer has been answered
as a former magician I mean how do you
how do you evaluate these sorts of
claims what do you what do you have to
say about them let's handle the uh their
prayers have been answered what
percentage of their prayers have been
answered that's always the question that
I ask and they say oh always I never get
never have any failure that way what do
you pray for do you pray that you'll
have enough food to put on the table
tomorrow and you do have it but that's
largely due to your own efforts is it
not yes but uh it's possible that I
might not have found the food or might
not have had the money to buy the food
that's that's all possible too these
people are very selective in their
thinking I hear people say all the time
I've made pray prayers and I've never
had one of my prayers
refused but I find that very difficult
to believe because if I then ask them to
pray for something they say oh no no it
has to be something that originates with
me it has to have be something that had
a real positive need but look at the
prayers that went up from daa and aitz
look at the millions of people who
prayed that they would not die and they
did die viciously cruy savagely and they
prayed not to die where was God at that
time we can easily say oh but God works
in mysterious ways he had his own reason
for doing that that's a rationalization
that I'm sorry I find very difficult to
accept what I'd like to do is now turn
back and talk a little bit about this
idea of the importance of critical
thinking skills when you say critical
thinking skills what exactly does that
imply and how does a person inculcate
those instead of accepting things that
are published in the media or because
they appeared on Oprah or because
someone wrote a besteller book about it
uh look into these things investigate
them start from the bottom go to the
library and look up the uh the opposite
point of view perhaps and put them side
by side okay 20 second summary on why
you're atheist I just don't find
sufficient evidence out there that would
make me create or maintain the belief in
a deity of any
sort all right thank you very much for
appearing on the show
today
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