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Debunking Systemic Racism & Having Common Decency (Pt. 2) | Thomas Sowell | POLITICS | Rubin Report
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what would you do about our school
systems oh my goodness I'll try out you
try to be rational do try yeah there
they are so awful but the public has no
idea what I'm reading a book about
schools and the woman who's writing a
Diane rabbit just talking about how
teachers have due process before they
can be fired now when you look into the
facts of it right down here and I think
there's a certain they cost a half a
million dollars to fire one incompetent
teacher you know you don't have a big
enough budget you know and right and the
in New York yes when I call the rubber
room there's the teachers who are so
incompetent that the principal's don't
want them in the classroom yeah and they
get paid full salary and they show up
and they accrue a pension rights and so
forth and the last time I forget how
many millions of dollars are spent a
year in New York paying for teachers who
don't teach and in fact don't do
anything but show up at the same time as
if they were teaching and they read
magazines or whatever they feel like
doing and this this force goes on at a
time when they don't have enough money
to provide the kids with decent supplies
so how do we scale back this I mean you
can talk we can talk about it through
the lens of Education but in any and in
a area where the government has taken on
a bigger role than it's supposed to I
think one of the things you hear all the
time is it's sort of too late I think a
lot of people think it's too late to
take back no government power no you you
heavens uh during the Reagan
administration that was the only time I
know of when the Federal Register grew
smaller that is where they compile all
the laws that have been passed in a
given time so it can be done it's not
it's not it's not it's not and that's
not easy but it can be done someone
wants although some issue is said Reagan
was discussing and someone say you know
it it's complicated he said it's not
complicated it's just not easy to do I
mean right now we I
I one of the big forces out here it
talks about affordable housing and
they're pointing Blue Ribbon committees
to look into why there's no affordable
housing and I think that's that's like
appointing a blue-ribbon committee to
explain why the ground is wet after a
rain I mean it's very simple if you
prevent people from building housing and
the population is growing you're gonna
have a housing shortage yeah and you
won't have affordable housing it's
really you know economics one during the
first first two weeks they're not very
good at taking economics 101 I don't
think so so would your answer it be in
almost every case to just scale back
government scale back regulation is the
president what they don't know there was
some things that government is necessary
to do so what are those type of things
that you owe for security first of all
having having dependable laws up some
people think that if you're for free
markets that means you don't think the
government should do anything no you can
the free markets don't operate except
within a framework of laws that's wholly
different from having them operate with
politicians jumping in unpredictable
times to suddenly pass some new
legislation yeah what can we do right
now I mean so really this would be about
just sort of electing more libertarian
minded politicians then I mean is that
really the only way we can change things
do you think no I think the main thing
people have to know what the facts are
themselves if everyone knew what all the
facts were I think you'd have an
entirely different set of people elected
I I can't believe that either of the
presidential candidates in 19 and 2016
would have would have been the
candidates if you had an informed public
how much of this do you think is part of
a media's fault that's one of the things
well the media are mostly uninformed no
no they're not
uninformed they are misinformed hmm and
and and they simply do not check the
facts on the large issues are small yeah
what what can we do to fix that do you
think I mean I suppose this no no I know
you know writing books like this well
but I think more fun
mentally the public that votes has to
itself become informed and not be so
easily stampeded by slogans and a few
numbers thrown around like you know
women make X percent of what men make
and so on yeah and when I was started
studying that some years ago for example
I found out that young young female
doctors made much less money than young
male doctors not to seem like very odd
and it's right but when you're looking
into it you discover that young male
doctors work an average of 500 hours a
year more than young female doctors and
they get paid for the 500 hours but but
there's no reason why the women and men
should be doing the same thing their
circumstances are different so are there
any laws that are in place right now
that you believe are discriminatory one
way or another tort towards any
community or against any community I
would have to write a larger book to
cover them all the minimum wage law is
absolutely devastating the policy of
saying that you cannot have more kids
from one ethnic group disciplined in the
school and from another is nonsense I
mean
groups are different from each other and
umpteen ways and then this helis have
the presumption that they are the same
except for the way their they're treated
there's nonsense that's never been true
and I don't know why we would think it's
true here today so I do sense that some
of what you just said there is bubbling
up into the national consciousness evil
from black conservatives now people that
feel that they haven't been represented
fairly or that the the you know the
so-called leaders of the black community
that are on television all the time are
actually preaching the complete reverse
of everything that you've said here yeah
do you sense that there is some sort of
growing conservative movement well no
there was a community there was a time
when when that that community would
consisted of me and Walter well yeah I
know all they used to say we with the -
it should never fly on the same plane
otherwise the whole movement will
disappear that goes down well I
mentioned to you before we started that
Larry
Eldar caused my awakening because I was
a progressive and I said something to
him about systemic racism non-air man he
beat me senseless with facts and I had
to go back and reassess what was wrong
with my thinking well you know anyone in
one of the in one of the chapters there
I have a little section about the era of
apartheid under South in South Africa
and I had that in there because there's
so much argument of how much racism is
there so forth I said let's test this
hypothesis in a setting where there's
absolutely no doubt it
and that's apartheid in South Africa
with a government where blacks are not
allowed to vote and so forth and you
then apply the economic principle and
you find that the economic principles
apply in South Africa that there are
some occupations see blacks weren't
allowed by law to be insane occupations
more than the same percentage and in
some occupations couldn't be hired at
all and some of those occupations where
they couldn't be hired at all illegal to
hire them at all there were more blacks
hired than there were whites because
there are economic factors that come in
and you don't just pass law and that
automatically produces the results you
want
yeah can you go into some of the
economic factors that you mentioned
there because I thought it was sort of
interesting about the types of jobs that
I had and why that would affect well
it's it's no it's the competitiveness of
the industry and a competitive industry
discrimination and then in the sense
that we that we use for
anti-discrimination laws it costs the
discriminator as well as the others now
insofar as that price can be evaded by
the discriminated he will he will
describe for example minimum wage laws
let when you have a minimum wage law you
have more people applying for jobs in
those categories then there are jobs
available because the Razr were Asian
the wage rate causes more people to
apply and employers to hire fewer
because they're more expensive and so we
have a chronic surplus now if you've got
a chronic surplus in an industry it
costs nothing to discriminate but and
and but but if you have a competitive
market then of course it does cost
something for every person that you
discriminate against was qualified
you've got to hire somebody else and you
to raise that pavé kept raised in order
to get people in so I show how
competitive industries have much less
discrimination than say regulated public
utilities so I was wondering when I was
reading it if you were ever going to
talk about how now technology is also
changing this so we see a lot of these
movements for $15 minimum wage and I
know why you don't think that's a great
idea but even now where we see
McDonald's and some of these other
places just replacing people with yes
and computers this has been happening I
don't know when I grew up in Harlem when
you went into a movies here this is a
little neighborhood movie theater in
Harlem there would be a kid who would
walk by hot rock down the aisle with you
with a place light show you to you to
see you see and so now now that we have
so many compassionate people who wanted
want people to be paid a minute a living
wage you actually stumbled down the
charge that down the aisle to your seat
the best way you can yeah because
they're not gonna pay that kind of money
you know that's unrelated to
productivity yeah what would you say to
the people I hear a growing movement of
people saying well this is why we need a
universal basic income because
technology is going to force for so many
people out of the work place
oh and that has been and that is that
always been made for centuries and it
has been proven wrong for centuries I
would ask the question what has happened
we've moved in that direction already we
have lots of people who can live off the
welfare say and not and not and not have
to had to be productive and are they
better people as a result of that one of
I saw some time back and I haven't
followed this that young people is
suicide rates among young people were
among the negative consequences of the
1960s people you you you've taken all
meaning out of people's lives and so
they find all kinds of crazy things to
do drugs whatever and then again it's
not peculiar to the United States as you
find us in Britain other countries and
so again people who say this almost
never look at any facts about what's
happened as we expanded the welfare
state that people behave better
no you know I mean what I want one of
the one of the things that moments that
I remember very well when I was I was
back in the school in Harlem for some
reason maybe doing research and I looked
out the window and I said said you know
I when I was a teenager I used to walk a
dog my dog in that Park and look look so
horror came over the students faces
because that was a different world and
so and and when I tell them that I used
to sleep out on a fire escape on hot
summer nights go who who could afford
air-conditioning and they think I'm a
man from all people did that all over
New York they did it in Washington they
did it in North Carolina relatives were
in Washington used to go down and Haines
point down near the Jefferson Memorial
on hot summer nights and sleep there so
you know sometime after midnight when
they didn't win it when there was heat
wouldn't be so bad they'd go home at
that time you'd be out of your mind to
do that today it'd be too dangerous
yeah so how do we sort of untie some of
this so my sister right now lives on the
Upper West Side of Manhattan not too far
from Harlem and she's in a half rent
stabilizer rent-controlled building and
a 10 1/2 market price she's on the
market price so she's paying that
two-bedroom in New York City I don't
even want to tell you how expensive it
is but then there are basically half of
the building that's paying next to
nothing and that of course incentivizes
people not to get off the dole because
if you're living in a nice area on the
Upper West Side very cheap why in the
world would you ever get off the dole
how do we start solving these problems
and I know I know facts is your is your
bedrock and yes but but what can we do
to get people to understand some of this
stuff because it's C it seems so basic
to understand if someone was giving you
something that you didn't earn again
there's always hard to this again this
is common one of this and in Europe and
they England especially it's a special
problem because you you have the Hat you
have this place with where where the
you're in is subsidized and say you're
in London and job is a disappearing in
London and they are opening up in
Manchester now if you go to Manchester
you know you know you
a waiting list for that kind of job and
if you stand in London you're unemployed
but your rent is low and so Peter so you
slow down the movement of people you
slow down the turnover of people in
these apartments but again most people
who talk about this don't even talk in
terms of if this than that they talk
about it is this is how the world ought
to be well heck I got any of all kinds
of things to how I think the world ought
to be but unfortunately most of those
things involve a cost a trade-off do you
think there's a system or a government
that's doing it better doing freedom
better than we're doing it here for all
the flaws that we have in this in this
system is anyone doing it better than us
although there may be marginally so but
I think most of the Western world is
less free that than it was say 30 years
ago 40 years ago by what measurements do
you view that oh just the amount of
regulations things you could use and
also by consequences either I was
reading up Milton Friedman's he and his
wife had a joint autobiography and she's
looking at one point she says she's
looking back on the days when she would
ride the IND subway in Manhattan and
what a joy it was and she said in those
long-gone days and the IND subway goes
through Harlem and Oakland Freeman and
his wife and they were still quoting
used to go dancing at the Savoy Ballroom
very few people want want and you know
the famous theme song of Duke Ellington
take the A train the a train goes right
through Harlem on the I in these line
and so Friedman who was only five foot
two had no fear of being mugged or even
a costume and go there they were and
this was common it wasn't where there
was a black actress who used to get
finished with play and her socializing
afterwards and at one o'clock in the
morning she said she would be taking the
subway up to a hundred and 55th Street
and st. Nicholas Avenue by herself and
what I'm walking home
nobody does that these days
and so you have to look wanted what are
the facts how did they change and and
and you don't simply say the other thing
is that they're saying the No Child Left
Behind thing with bush yeah yeah there
are kids who go to school to raise hell
and a handful of those can prevent the
whole class from learning anything now
the logical thing would be to separate
those kids out and that ones who wanted
to learn something learn something you
can't do that because the ideology says
no and again so and so you sacrifice
whole generations of poor and minority
kids for this ideology and this utopian
notion yeah and we end up in an odd
dystopia probably you know I'm favor you
can say the best is the enemy of the
good and of course it would be better if
everybody could be educated at the same
time it can't be done so as someone that
has survived the the arrows and and the
the venom that the left can throw at you
because I see a lot of this these days I
see you even what they say to me I find
I get a lot of email from people saying
well how can I be brave enough to do it
and I think it's particularly a unique
situation for minorities that consider
themselves conservative or libertarian
or a little bit to the right
so I mentioned larry elder before and of
course you and my friend david webb and
i you know there there are some more
black conservatives than perhaps there
used to be oh no question about what
would be if someone's watching this
right now and just needs that little
extra bit of courage to start saying no
no no no you you have to look look at
this circumstances
I mean I've advised some young people do
not go into to indication in public
schools because the odds are so stacked
against you and people can write bad
references from you for you between
specially when you're young and you and
what they say about you is all that
there's someone sees now by the time I
was teaching at some of these schools
I remember one place where the
department used to threaten one of my
colleagues
he would
right good Rabb references form I had I
had you know I publish stuff while I was
still in graduate school I had Milton
Freeman and joy stay with the right
references for me what this guy said
there another department wouldn't
wouldn't matter a bit but but most
people don't don't have that situation
yeah and so you have to pick you yet to
pick your face so I want to time is
limited here I want to mention one thing
that you say right at the end of the
book that really what we need more than
anything else perhaps is common decency
yes and we've kind of lost that isn't
common anymore I mean when I was going
to school and we'd have fights on the
schoolyard grounds when once one guy was
clearly beaten whoever was the toughest
kids in the crowd would simply step in
and stop it the other guys he said you
want to fight you can fight me yeah that
we need in the public square now yes yes
but but with it would I mean the pool is
only so much the police can do if he if
you don't have common decency that the
the cops have are not not going to be
able to handle it especially when
everyone is second yes I love it when
people who have never fired a gun in
their lives say why did the cops fire so
many kindness now at one time I taught
pistol shooting in the Marine Corps it
doesn't surprise me in the slightest of
a shot that fired so many things under
those conditions but people you people
can't be knowledgeable about everything
but they can be knowledgeable about the
extent of their own ignorance even if
they have PhDs sir this has been a true
honor and a pleasure and I know I can
see it in your eyes even the sort of
humility that you have in humbleness but
you you've affected so many people and
are still continuing to affect so many
people and I hope that we might have
just given that a little extra bump
today so I'm truly honored that you took
your time well thank you boys
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