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JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

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Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe

Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe

Rogan podcast by night. All

day. Well, my man, what's happening?

Pleasure. No, please. My pleasure. Thank

you for having me here. Pleasure. My

honor. I'm uh I'm very excited about

this new thing you're doing. I'm very

excited about your journey into the

lightweight division.

Something that I feel very excited also

about that. What are you walking around

at? Like what do you walk around at when

you were fighting at 45? I'm I'm going

to tell you in kilos. Okay. I walk

around 80 82.

What is that Jamie? Like 16 170 75 175

180 180 most. Okay. So you were losing

quite a bit of weight. 35 lbs. 25 30

lbs. Like yeah, that's a lot hard. That

was the hardest part of my training of

the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying

at all the last couple of fights that

that I had because it's

like I had to become more professional

on the way cut than in a fight game, you

know, and it was taking a lot of time

and energy from me and I'm like my dream

is to to become a world champion. I want

to end up this this chapter that I have

that I started in 145 and now it's time

to to really enjoy it and I'm very

excited about that. I already have one

fight in 155. J Herbert. Jai Herbert.

Yeah. I really wish the UFC would

eliminate weight cutting. I really wish

there was a way. Why does to do that? I

don't. It's sanctioned cheating that

everybody has to do. It's like you're,

you know, I mean, if you're saying

you're 180 pounds, you're not really

145, right? So, it's crazy that you're

the 145 pound champion, but you're 180

pound man. It's kind of nuts. Yeah. But

but at the same time if you go to the

next weight class you are playing with a

disadvantage because the guy in the next

division is cutting a lot of weight.

Mhm. So if you don't do that at the end

of the day you walk inside the octagon

and you are the smaller guy. Yeah. Like

Islam Islam Akachev is huge. I mean that

guy how he makes 155 is I don't

understand it. Every time I stand next

to him I'm like how are you 155? How

much do you think he he walks around?

He's got to be 190ish in the 190 range.

He's got to be. That's what he looks

like to me. I never saw home in a

person. Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and

big. I mean, he's he's not a small He's

not 155B man. It's just so silly. The

whole thing is just it's it's an it's an

old thing that we kept for no reason.

And I feel like they should blow all the

weight classes. I've talked to Dana

about this. I actually talked to Ari

Emanuel about this when they first

bought the UFC. I said, "The first thing

you should do is get rid of this. get

rid of the weight cutting and just add a

bunch of weight classes, you know,

because some of the weight class gaps,

like the gap between 70 and 85 and then

85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps

are too big. 20 pounds nuts. I would do

something with the with the drug test.

Like if I go to your home to to to make

the drug test, I put you in in in the

scale. If you walk around like 8% or 10%

over your weight, I would obligate you

to go in the in the in the next weight

class. Just to give you an example, for

example, if you're fighting a 100

kilograms, I'm gonna say in kilograms,

and I go to your house, I do the the

drug test, I put you in the scale, and

you weigh this 110 kilograms, I would

force you to go to the next weight

class. Yeah, I think that's realistic.

That makes sense. And I think that they

should have more weight classes cuz the

weight class gaps are just too large.

Oh, maybe that's an option also. Yeah, I

mean at the lower weight classes it's 10

lbs which seems reasonable but really at

the lower weight classes, you know, when

you look at like 125 and 135, it could

easily be 5 lbs. 5 lbs is reasonable,

but Dana doesn't want like 12 weight

classes or 12 15 20 weight classes like

boxing has. He wants it to be like the

UFC has now, but it's not enough. I

don't really know the real reason behind

that, but I would love to talk to Dana

and ask him this these questions also

because it's kind of dangerous also for

the guys and many times you put on a

show for the people and you don't really

know if they going to make the weight

right. Exactly. And they're going to be

compromised. I mean, there's a lot of

guys who fight just deeply dehydrated

from the day before and even though

they've rehydrated themselves, their

brain's not rehydrated yet. Exactly.

It's not smart and it it's not it's also

not necessary. Like why would you It

would make for better fights. Why would

you want someone to be physically

compromised 24 hours before they're

fighting? It doesn't make any sense at

all. But at the same time, the way cut

takes something out from you. That's

crazy. It's like putting a dog inside

the room for 20 days without any food

and you open the door and you put him in

a different room with full of food. It's

like the same thing, you know, when I'm

cutting the weight, I'm like I'm a

different person. I I feel that I'm like

my mind goes different. My thought

process is different. Everything is so

different at at that moment. I'm not so

kind when I'm cutting weight. Yeah. More

focused, dialed in. Exactly. Dominic

Cruz says it's a good thing. He says uh

he likes weight cutting because it gets

you dialed in. He says it gets you

completely dialed in for a fight. How

much he cuts? I don't think he cuts that

much 35. That's why he likes it.

Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it, you

know, cuz when he was fighting at 85, he

was weighing in at 85 and then fighting

in the sk in the cage at 225 226, which

is crazy. I don't know how how that guy

was making 185. That's crazy because

he's huge and he's so tall. Well, how

about Drius Duplo? How the [ __ ] is he

185? That guy's huge. Yeah, that's huge.

Also, there's a lot of these guys like,

but it's it's very deceptive because the

general public thinks that's a 185 pound

man, but he's not. Drius is probably

when he gets into the cage, he's well

into the 220s. He's a big guy. I don't

know in what way he he walks around, but

he's huge guy also. And comes when he

was fighting in 170. Yeah, he was big

also. He was almost killing himself

making the weight was Anthony Rumble

Johnson. Do you remember Anthony? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Anthony, I ran into him once

in between fights. And I said, "How much

do you weigh?" He said, "230." Wow. He

was fighting 170. He He switched How

many weight classes? He started from

170. He went to like light like heavy

weight and then he end up fighting in in

the heavyweight division, right? He went

to middleweight and didn't make weight.

He missed weight and lost that fight and

then he fought heavyweight outside the

UFC and then came back and fought light

heavyweight in the UFC. You know,

something similar happened to me also. I

started fighting in the bantamweight

division. Really? Yeah. Before the UFC

like in cage warriors when I was

fighting in the cage warriors I actually

missed the weight also when I was was

fighting for the belt. I was I I was

fighting at that time in the

banterweight division. Then I I kept

fighting in in the featherweight and now

I'm in the lightweight. I hope I I don't

end up fighting in the welterweight.

How old were you when you first started

fighting

in MMA? You asking? Or or in Well, all

when did you first start martial arts

with four years old? My my dad put me

with my brother in in

judo. Then we went to Georgia. We kept

practicing with the Gra the Garmon

wrestling and then we moved to Spain

when I was 15 years old and completely

by chance we find the gym and we started

training the the MMA, the mixed martial

arts. Totally by chance. Totally by

chance. Wow. So, were you a mixed

martial arts fan at all? I didn't know

anything about the mixed martial arts. I

didn't know anything anything about the

BJJ, the ground game, any [ __ ] thing.

Wow. So we went to to Spain and we

wanted to keep with the same discipline

as we we were doing in Georgia with the

Groman wrestling but they don't have the

culture of of that sport. So we were a

little bit sad you know because we

wanted that sport. My brother was really

really good on that. So my mom was uh

working and he saw a man with the

cauliflower ears. He went to she went to

to him and she asked him like what you

doing because my kids want to to do

wrestling. Do you train in in some gym

or or something and he said no I'm doing

the BJJ bring your kids and I'm going to

I'm going to show you the gym. She came

to home and my dad and and my mom and

they started to convince us like there's

a gym they are practicing like

jujitsu MMA all the sports and um I was

like but what the [ __ ] is this? I don't

know what's this. And my dad start

started to show me the videos of the

Gracies. He he he told me like this one

of the best sports in the world right

now. You are going to guys love it this

and that. And at that day, we went to

the gym and I fell in love since the

first second. Well, it's actually a

great base to start out from. Starting

with judo and then greor roaming

wrestling and then going into jiu-jitsu.

It's really great because you already

have an established grappling base. It's

great. Of course, my recommendation for

everyone is if you want to have a career

in in in MMA, you should start with

wrestling because for me personally,

because this is my personal experience

that it's much easier to learn in the

future boxing than start with boxing and

learn the wrestling. Really? For me,

yes, I think so. And I saw that in in in

many people. But how old were you when

you first started boxing?

17 years old. That's fairly old. Like

when you think about how high level your

striking is. Of course it is. Yeah. But

when I started I was like, okay, I'm

very good with the wrestling. I can take

people down. I can control them. I have

a great ground game. But what if I go to

the highest competition and I I find

some some adversities. I have to be able

to fight in the in in in the striking

also. So I have to de develop my game in

the striking and I start from from from

that and I start with my brother. We

were like the the first people to go

inside the gym and the last ones to live

it. So we were studying every day all

day like so obsessed. We were watching

like all the videos of Julio Chavez of

Canelo all that practicing all the

techniques and then

putting in interaction the sparrings and

all that and I was like finding my

style. what that that I really like to

do. Well, it's interesting because Spain

doesn't have a long history of mixed

martial arts. Mhm. So, like you are the

first champion from Spain in the UFC.

So, it's it's very interesting that you

you got in there as a young man and

there wasn't really like a big

established community yet. So, I was the

first guy to to get into the top 15, the

top 10, the top five, and then the the

world champion. We we had a guy in in

Spain who fought in in in the UFC. I

don't know if you remember him. Enrique

Wasabi. Okay. He did the Ultimate

Fighter. Then we have another guy also

Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job

also. But before that, we didn't have

anyone in the UFC. So when you first

started training, were there amateur

competitions in Spain? Yeah, there was

amateur MMA and I made three fights in

amateur and then I started with a

professional game. I did four fights in

Spain and at some point it was so

difficult to find a fight for me that I

had to start to travel in the European

territory to to to get a fight. Yeah.

And everything started from that. But

it's fascinating because a lot of world

champions generally well there's a good

percentage of them come from an

established gym that already has elite

highle competition but it seems like

that's not the case with your gym. No it

wasn't.

So I don't know I don't know what was

the reason to be honest to to came this

far. I don't know. Well that's always

the question with champions like are

champions born or are they bred? Because

there's there's gyms that develop like

Marvin Haggler came out of the

Petronelli brothers gym in Brockton,

Massachusetts. They're not known for

world championship fighters, but Marvin

Haggler is one of the greatest of all

time. It's like there was something

inside of him that made him excel. The

same thing. There was something inside

that made me the person who I am today.

Did you know when you first started

training, when you first started doing

MMA, that you were going to fight

professionally? Yeah, since the first

day. So my mindset always was the the

same exactly the same as I have right

now. I'm like if someone did it, I also

can do it and if no one did it, I can be

the first one to do it.

This is the mindset I I I always had and

it's

like yeah that I think that the champion

are they are not born they are made also

because you can burn in a extraordinary

uh situation but you can end

up so bad you know and the opposite also

you can burn in a I don't know crazy

situation and end up in a paradise.

Yeah, it's it's such an interesting

thing because they all champions are not

the same type of person either. You

know, you got guys like Sugar Sean Ali

who's silly and smokes weed and has

crazy hair. And then you got guys like

Alex Pereira, very stoic, you know, very

serious. It's everyone's different. He's

very serious. I met him in in in in

Sydney. I went with my bride because he

made his UFC debut and yeah, he was kind

of quiet like Yeah, he's intense. Yeah,

he's so serious. Yeah, he's intense. I

remember watching him fight for the

first time in glory in kickboxing and I

was like, Jesus Christ, I just watched

the way he kos people. I was like, this

guy is different. Huge, great. Crazy

power. His power is just ridiculous. I

mean, like hit guys with Who do you love

watching fight? I love watching you

fight. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a Giant fan. Um I

like all styles, man. I'm fascinated by

the the game in all different styles. I

mean, I I like watching all the

champions. I mean, I love watching Morab

fight. Wow. He's a [ __ ] animal. He's

the machine. I love him. He's an animal.

I mean, I just don't understand that

cardio. His cardio is [ __ ] crazy.

It's like superhuman cardio. And I'm

going to tell you something about Morab

that surprised me that maybe you see him

in the mat and he's not the most special

guy, the most skillful guy in the room,

but I don't know what happens to him

when he gets inside that

octagon. Wow. That man is a [ __ ]

machine. He's a [ __ ] machine. I'm I'm

a right now. You ask me who I love to to

watch fight. That's my rap. I would pay

take my money when he's fighting in the

pay-per-view right now at this. I'm

like, bro, take my money. I love Umar,

too. Umar, you know, that fight was

incredible. That was one of the best

fights I've ever seen because they're so

skillful, so high level. And, you know,

to see him make Umar start to wilt, to

see Umar like you see the wobble when

guys start getting fatigued. You see

this like a little bit of like loose

movement in the way, you know, you see

that. Morab had none. Zero. just

shooting like like he was in the first

round in the fifth round because this is

what I exactly think that happens to

Omar because you see uh Morav from

outside like you are sitting and you you

are seeing him training or fighting and

you're like he's not going to be able to

take me down he's not going to be able

to do that to me and then you get inside

the doctor with him and everything

changes. Yeah. It's like you have a a

machine in front of you who has like

non-stop. Daniel Cormier went to visit

him right after he won the title. Dam

Daniel Cormier went to his house on

Sunday. Yeah. Morab wasn't home. He was

out running. Yeah. He won the title on

Saturday. Daniel went to his house on

Sunday. Morab's out running. Wow. He's

crazy. He He came He came to Spain also

to help me once when I had the training

come. I was supposed to fight with

Moser. He came to to to help me. Crazy.

We the same exact exact team. We we were

like finishing the training. He was

going for a run. He was going like

actually to to his house running. Yeah.

There's no shortcuts. No, there's no

shortcuts. No shortcuts. No shortcuts.

But, you know, like to answer your

question, I'm you know, I'm fascinated

by all the different styles. You know, I

I like watching everybody fight. You

know, I love Vulcanowski. You know, I

love watching him fight this past

weekend. And he's so great. He I was so

happy for him this this Saturday because

he really deserve deserve it to get the

that title back. Does it bother you to

see someone win your title? No, not

that. You good? I'm good. Like I'm good.

I'm good. Happy for him. You established

you won. You defended. I won. I

defended. Right now I have completely

different challenge in front of me. I

wish him nothing but the best. And to

everyone like I wish the best wins all

the time. That's great. Yeah. I don't

care. What about Patty Pimpblelet

though?

He He did a great job. He did a great

job. He did what he had to do. He did.

But for me, it's like I'm I'm going to

be completely honest with you. For me,

Chandler, he never was

a extraordinary fighter. He was like

average level of fighter

like who did he beat like in the UFC?

Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson. Oh, Dan

Hooker. Yeah,

Dan Hooker is a good fighter. He just he

caught well Dan Hooker had that war with

Dustin Porier that and Dustin Porier is

a very good fighter. How many losses he

has? He's got a few losses. Yeah, he's a

good fighter. Very entertaining fighter

like for the fans. He's a wild dog.

Yeah, he's a dog. He he he goes inside

that that that octagon and he fights.

But yeah, I think he's on a resurgence.

I think, you know, he had a skid for a

while and now he's rebuilding himself

and he's on a He's smiling. Look at you,

[ __ ]

So, he beat Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson

when he was like almost four years old.

I think honestly we got Michael Chandler

after his prime. Um, if you go watch

Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez and

Bellator, those were [ __ ] crazy

fights. Crazy fights. Yeah, but at the

end of the day, you see wars. It's a

very competitive fight. Yes. You see

almost a bar fight. You see two guys in

the middle of the octagon exchanging

punches, but you don't see technique.

You don't see skills. You see a great

fight because as a fans, it's a very

entertaining to watch fights like that,

but if you really think about it, it's

like you don't see skills in that fight.

You don't see someone trying to take you

down, control you, some great

submissions, great transitions, I don't

know, striking. You you you see a guy

that he's like looking for a

combination. He's looking for his moment

creating a spaces. You don't see like I

don't know. I see what you're saying.

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hp.com/jre. So is it not as tactical or

technical? Exactly. It's just wild dogs.

It's it's just wild dogs. I mean, that's

why Michael Chandler is so popular

because he fights like a wild dog.

Exactly. And that's cool. That's cool.

You need a guys also like like him. But

I would never recommend my friend to

fight like that. Exactly. I never would

recommend to someone watch this guy and

learn something. Right. Right. Right.

Learn. Yeah. It's like he's so

entertaining, but sometimes it's best to

not be as entertaining and just be

better. Exactly. Yeah. and shut people

down. At the same time, you don't have

to be Balal, right? I see what you're

saying. But you Balal I think gets too

much bad rap. Like Balah when he beat up

Shawn Brady, that was very entertaining.

And Shawn Brady is very good. You know,

I think Bal just does what it takes to

win. And when you're in a div and also

like he didn't really have a background

in wrestling at the level that a lot of

these guys did. He had to develop that

over time. Yeah, but you there are two

type of champions for me. Like there are

champions who prepare themselves to win

and there are the other ones who prepare

themselves to dominate. I prepare myself

not to win because I know that I'm going

to win. I I want to win in fashion. I

want to dominate. I want to more people.

I want people to be entertained. I want

people to be like, "Wow, I'm happy that

I spend the money this Saturday night

going watch this guy. That's what I

want." Yeah. Someone was talking about

that recently on Instagram. I don't

remember who uh the the coach was, but

he was talking about levels of athletes

that there's there's people that train

to compete, there's people that train to

win, and then there's people that train

to dominate, to be the greatest of all

time. Exactly. And there's there's a

different mindset. There's a never

satisfied, always improving mindset that

the great champions have all the time. I

want the people to be entertained all

the time. Like when actually I

was I started with the with with the

MMA. I was like recording myself all the

sparrings and after that I was

rewatching my my my sparring. I was like

will I pay my money to watch

this? What do I have to to to change in

my game to be more entertained?

And this is how I was like looking

myself all the time. I was very crit

critical with with myself. And this is

how I develop and develop and develop.

And all the time I go inside the

octagon. I don't go there just to win.

You know what I mean? I want everyone to

be like, "Wow, what he just did how he

did it. He was the greatest of all time

and he made it made him look easy."

Yeah. This is what I want. I want to

change the game. you know the people to

to I want you to say your friend watch

this guy and learn something. Yeah.

Well, mission

accomplished so far, right? So far so

good. And now uh a new journey into the

lightweight division, you know. Um I

don't understand why they won't just

book you and Islam. There's many times

that I wish I was running the UFC. I

would change so many different things.

That would be one of the first things I

would change. I'm like, "Book that

fight. Book that fight right away." You

would do some fights also in Mars. I'm

I'm sure

I would probably go with the starship. I

have I got some wacky ideas. I don't

even think they should fight in a cage.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the cage is an

unnecessary um it's an I think it's an

unnecessary element in fighting like to

push someone against something or to be

able to get up from something. I don't

think it's necessary. I think they

should be in like a basketball court.

like a basketball court that's matted

up, have a big space, have a warning

track where you can't if you go outside

the warning track too many times, you

you could lose points. Okay? And um so

when someone takes you down, you have to

actually get up. I also think at the end

of a round, like say if you got a guy

mounted at the end of the round, you

start the next round mounted on him. Of

course. Yeah. I don't think because why

would you give him the advantage of

getting up when he never got up? He

never got up. Never got You have to earn

a get up. You have to stand up by

yourself. I love it. I I never thought

about that, actually. No. No standups

ever. Ever. No stand-ups. Unless someone

commits a foul. Like if someone commits

a foul and you want to stand them up and

take a point away, that's fine. But if

the guy's in the bottom and he commits a

foul, if a guy's on the bottom, he

gouges someone's eyes on purpose. Take a

point away. Put him right back in the

same spot. Wow. Because otherwise, like

say if you're fighting a guy like Alex

Pereira who's never taking anybody down,

he's just going to strike with you,

right? Okay. Why would you let him back

up again and have the advantage of him

standing up again? The beginning of the

round, he starts standing up again. Now

you got to take him down again. But

also, you don't think that it's it's a

part of the show? It is a part of the

show. But I don't give a [ __ ] about

that. Yeah, I'm a I mean, I'm a hardcore

fan. I'm a purist. I think it should be

about fighting, about elite fighting.

And elite fighting is you got to get up.

Like if a wrestler takes you down and he

just does this to you and it's not

entertaining. But if he can do that to

you, that's tough [ __ ] That's what he

did. You would change also the time

range like or you would leave a three

round or five minutes with one minute

rest. The good thing about five minute

rounds, the good thing about fiveminute

rounds is it's sustainable and guys can

fight at a high pace. If you had like

just 15 minutes, one 15 minute round,

guys would be exhausted and the end of

it would be sloppy. it wouldn't be the

same. The pace would be much slower. It

wouldn't be as good. So, I think there's

nothing wrong with rounds, but I think

it's one fight. It's not five fights.

So, why does he stand up at the end of

every round? I think if a guy takes you

down and he's got you mounted with like

trapped in arm and he's punching your

ribs trying to secure an arm triangle,

why would you why does he get to stand

up again? It doesn't make any sense.

True. especially if he's a striker and

you wasted all that energy get him to

the ground and you got so close to

cinching up a submission and then all of

a sudden he's back on his feet again.

You have to stand up and he didn't even

earn it. Start him right back down

there. No cage, no standups. No standups

ever. If everybody booze, tough [ __ ] Go

watch baseball. Go watch Go watch

something else. Would you you wouldn't

like to see at some point the World

Championships in mixed martial arts?

Like for example, let's say the seven

best fighters from the United States in

every weight class against seven biders

from I don't know from China or from

Russia. Yeah, I would love that. The

best flyweight against the best

flyweight from the United States and you

do that and you have seven fights

because you have seven weight divisions

and if you win four weight divisions

that country won. M yeah, that will be

fun. Also, that would be great. That's a

great idea. I love that idea. Yeah, I

think that that idea sounds really good.

And also, there is a bit of an issue,

right, with the UFC being the premier

organization for martial arts. The UFC

is like, if you're not a champion in the

UFC, no one thinks of you as a world

champion. Like, you're a world champion.

World champion. Someone can fight in the

PFL and they could say, "Oh, it's the

PFL world champion." Everybody's like,

"Right, come on. Come on.

fighters, but at the end of the day, you

know that you have all the best

fighters, the best collection of

fighters in the UFC. Yes. But I watch

one FC and I watch some of those [ __ ]

animals that they have over there and

I'm like, Jesus Christ, some of these

guys are good, man. Some of these guys

are good. And you know, they're calling

them one one FC world champions. I'm

like, I'd like to see them. I'd like to

see them because some guys look real

good until they fight elite talent. And

we've seen that before. Like some guys

look like destroyers and then they get

in the UFC against guys who are just a

little bit more technical, a little

smarter and they get pieced up. What

happens is that I think that in one

championship you most of the time you

used to fight with strikers. In the UFC,

you don't know who who you're going to

face next. Maybe he's a wrestler, right?

Maybe you're going to fight Demian Maya

who wants to fight you on the ground.

Maybe you fight Alex Pereira. You don't

[ __ ] know. So you have to be good

everywhere and you have to be prepared

for everything in one championship.

Maybe you are good at striking and you

can be a world champion. Yeah, maybe. I

mean there are some good grapplers over

there, but my point is I really wish

there was no organizations.

I really do. I really wish it was just

all the best fighters competing. I don't

Look, I love the UFC. I've been working

for the UFC forever and my loyalty is to

the UFC. But I wish there was just only

fighting. Yeah. You know, no

organizations just like boxing is in

boxing. But the problem with boxing is

it's very difficult to get these guys

because they all have different

promoters. Exactly. And if they all the

same promoter, they all get [ __ ] when

it comes to negotiation, right? If

they're all the same promoter and the

same managers. You know something about

soccer? No. Yeah, I know a little bit

about it. How they do like the Champions

League? Mhm. they have like for example

let's say the Real Madrid they have a

team that's why I would what I would do

is like I would create a team against

another team for example I have Real

Madrid I've I I sign like the best seven

fighters in the world whoever I want in

different weight classes and you have

for example Barcelona you you sign the

seven best fighters in the world around

the world you train them in one place

you do like all the strategy strategy

and We meet each other. We do a

competition like a Champions League and

we do like the whole year calendar and

the best wins at the end of we do like

the finals and we give them the space to

recover. We we create like a competition

between teams, not that individual

um people, you know what I mean? Yes. So

I would do something like that. That's a

great idea. But the problem is I think

guys guys get injured, guys fall out,

guys get sick. That's why in in soccer

you have guys that in your position you

always have two or three guys that if

you are injured you have another guy

that can can can change you or switch

you you know between the rounds even and

you are in soccer sometimes it happens

some someone gets injured in

in Estadio stadium and they can switch

them. Yeah that makes sense. But I mean

at the end of the day like imagine say

if you get scheduled to fight Islam and

uh Islam gets injured and Arman Sooqian

takes his place or something like that.

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Again, you are like focused on uh

individ individuals. You are not focused

on teams because no one is going to care

who is going to fight in from the

flyweight division. Who is going to be

your representative from the flyweight

division or from the lightweight

division. I'm like, maybe I bring you

Islam that I have it in I have him in in

in my team or also I could have Charles

Olua in the same team or maybe I bring

Charlesa because I think that against

your team, the guy you have in the

lightweight division, Charles does it

better. Right. Right. Right. They do

that with grappling like Quintet. They

do that. They have like grappling teams.

Yeah. I mean that would be interesting.

I just there's there's certain fighters

like I was my main regret in MMA that we

never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC

when he was in his prime. That's true.

If if I could have one thing, one fight

in their prime, Fedor Kane Velasquez.

Oh, that would fight. Oh my god. Great.

In their prime. That would have been

incredible. Incredible. Actually, Kane

was an amazing fighter,

bro. That guy had a gas tank that was

superhuman. So for a heavyweight, it

didn't even make any sense. You would

see guys just fall apart. They would

just wilt. Pure boxing style. Pure

boxing style, great wrestling,

incredible chin, and just indomitable

will. Too tough for his own good, which

is why he wind up like towards the end

of his career, he was just his body had

deteriorated so much. He had so many

back injuries, neck injury, shoulder

injury, knee injury. There was actually

What's going on with him? He's He's in

jail right now. He's not Yeah. He got

sentenced. He got sentenced to 5 years.

And the the judge said this was the

least amount he could sentence him. He

didn't want to sentence him. Well, what

happened to him? Do you know that now?

Yes. So Kane's son was going to daycare

and there was a man who molested him at

daycare. Kane found out about it, chased

the man in his car and shot at him. He

tried to catch him in his car and shot

at him. Kane gets arrested. Kane stayed

in jail. The guy gets arrested and he

got out on bail. I don't know what's

happening with the guy. I don't know if

he's been sentenced yet or what, but

this guy molested his son multiple

times. I don't know how many times, but

he did what every father would have

done. You the the if you're not a

father, you do not understand the

murderous rage you would have if some

man molested your baby. You don't

understand. It's it's you would see read

in a way that no one can describe to you

unless you're a parent. That [ __ ]

anger is I mean if there's ever a plea

for temporary

insanity, that's that's the plea. If

there's ever a person who could

justifiably say, "I was temporarily

insane," it's a father that's chasing

after someone, especially a man who

molests your boy.

Wow. Yeah, everybody understands it.

Everybody understands it. He should have

never gone to jail. He's not a threat to

society. He's not a danger. He shouldn't

be in prison. No. And he already did

three years. He was already in jail for

three years. He has been a great example

for so many upcoming guys like for the

new generation. I don't know why guys

like him have to end up in the jail for

something like that. Exactly. He didn't

robber anyone. He didn't Exactly. I

don't know. Exactly. It's It's horrific.

It's horrific, you know. I mean, I just

don't understand it. It's um I mean, the

judge's hands were tied. He had to make

a sentence and this is the I think the

minimum amount. They were trying to give

him 30 years. Yeah. For attempted murder

cuz he was just shooting at this guy.

And obviously, when you're driving and

shooting, you could miss him and and

kill a bystander. It's very dangerous.

But also, the guy was in a murderous

rage for a good reason. For a good

reason, of course. And if he killed that

guy, the world would be better off.

That's my feeling. That's my feeling.

That's true. That's also true. A guy

like that walking around and molest

children should be dead. That I that's

just my feeling. All this thought of I

mean there's a bunch of people on the

left here in the United States that they

have this crazy way of looking at

pedophiles. They they they call them

minor attracted persons. They want to

make it a protected class and say it's,

you know, it's like someone being

attracted to someone of the opposite sex

or someone being attracted to someone of

the same sex. Like, no, it's not. No,

it's not. You're victimizing children,

the most vulnerable and protected people

that we have. Of course, you can't you

can't even talk to the kids about

something like that. You know what I

mean? Yeah. About like I I heard so many

crazy things about that topic that let's

let's leave it right there. will just

get in

trouble. Yeah. I mean, kill them all.

That's how I feel. Kill them all.

Anybody wants to do that to children,

there's no reason for them to exist.

They This I mean, for Yeah. You're just

going to ruin lives. And not just their

lives, but you're going to ruin all the

people whose lives they ruin cuz they're

all [ __ ] up now. You know, you you you

you kill so much potential from a human

being to do that to a baby. It's just

insane. Wow. It's just [ __ ] insane.

So that's unfortunately the story with

Kane right now. And you know he was out

for a while once they let him out. He

was coaching at AKA and you know he's a

amazing coach and we hope

that they going to they going to think

it again and they're going to give him

the freedom he deserves. Yeah. I mean I

hope Trump pardons him. I mean that's

what I really hope makes something

happen with that. Maybe that's possible.

I mean, that might be the best best

option. Um, but anyway, in his prime,

uh, Kane Velasquez versus Fedor. That's

my my biggest regret. A fight that we

never got to see cuz when Kane when when

Fedor was fighting in Pride, you know,

and this is before the UFC was really

huge, right? Cuz they were huge in Japan

in like 2001, 2002. They were filling

stadiums in Japan. when the UFC was just

sort of emerging in the United States,

it really hadn't hit its peak until

2005. And why do you think that they

never bring him to to the UFC? Well,

they tried. Uh but I got to be careful

how I say this. So Fedor was controlled

by uh some Russian people that were

uh very uh rough men, okay, as it were,

you know, uh gangster type characters.

And uh they had a bunch of negotiations

with the UFC, but there were very

unreasonable demands. Like they wanted

part of the promotion. They wanted to

own a piece of everything. They wanted a

lot cuz they knew that with Fedora, they

had their golden ticket and they wanted

to play it out as much as possible.

Okay. Negotiations were very intense and

very very confrontational. They got bad

where Dana had to up his security. It

got It got pretty Yeah, it got heavy.

Yeah, these are dangerous people. These

were dangerous people. It got Yeah, I

can tell you more off air. Yeah. Wow. I

didn't know that story. I'll tell you

more off air. It got You should talk to

Dana about it. It got crazy. Wow.

They're rough. That's why. Yeah, because

I always thought like why they don't

bring that guy to the UFC because it's

going to be so fun for the for the fans.

They wanted to co-promote. They wanted

to be a part of the promotion. They

wanted more than they deserved. They

didn't just want Fedor to get paid. They

wanted to get paid. They wanted to They

wanted to make a lot of money and they

wanted to get their hooks into the UFC.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Russian gangsters.

Yeah. Yeah.

I get it from their perspective how they

rule like everything. Pride was run by

the Yakuza, you know. So, it was

Japanese gangsters and Russian

gangsters. They speak the same language,

you know. It was uh they got along fine.

But then when they came over to the UFC,

the UFC was like, "That's done. Not the

place. Do it over here." No, we'll give

him a lot of money. We want him to fight

in the UFC. And it never took place,

unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. So crazy.

Yeah. So, he's about to fight again. Fed

is going to fight bare knuckle. Yeah. I

I heard something about that. Yeah. I

think Connor's promotion. I think it's

Connor's promotion. That BKFD, actually.

Do you think he's going to come back,

Connor? If I had a bet. No. Yeah. No.

why he comes back cuz he hasn't come

back yet. And he could have, you know,

if he really wanted to, he would have

been back in the gym, had a fight

scheduled, drug tested, clean, training,

gone through a camp, had a fight. Like,

he had a broken toe before the first

fight with Tran Chandler. I understand

that. Okay. Why should you fight in a

broken toe? Especially a guy who moves a

lot like Connor. He relies on movement

so much. Yeah, I get it. So, heal that

toe up. What's that? That's two months.

Broken toes is two months. Yeah. And so

then you're back in camp and then you

you reschedule a fight and then you

fight again. But he didn't. Um and also

partying, constant partying, all these

law legal problems that he has, you

know, scooting around on yachts and, you

know, driving around a Lamborghini. He's

he's wealthy. He's done. Maybe. I mean,

the what's really sad is if he comes

back when he's like 39 or 40 and his

body just doesn't have it anymore, you

know? So, right now, he actually has a

great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could

fight, right? Right. They could fight

right now. Yeah, they could fight

because if they put him against Potty, I

think Patty beats him easy now. Well, a

lot of years off, right? A lot of years

off, you know, on the feet. Conor's a

[ __ ] No, at the in the feed.

He's a [ __ ] I I know that he

can knock out like everyone. If he's

still the same guy. Yeah. But the thing

is he's 36 now, you know, and if he's

natural also

reality, okay, when he breaks his leg,

he gets off the drug testing, right? Cuz

he's got to do something to heal his leg

quicker. So, what is he going to do?

Well, you're going to take steroids. So,

if you're going to take steroids and

you're already

34ish, your endocrine system gets [ __ ]

up by taking steroids where your body

stops producing testosterone. So, I've

had explain it to me by scientists

before and essentially say if you take

steroids for 6 months, you need at least

6 months before your body starts

producing testosterone at a normal level

again. Okay? Some people think it's

twice as long. So, that would be a year.

a year of no steroids before your body

regains its natural testosterone levels.

If it does, depending if it does, you

think that if someone puts steroids in

his body, he he never comes back as

a as his at his normal body. Vtor

Belelffort is the best example of this,

right? He's the best guy that we could

use as an example, but he took bunch of

stuck

[Laughter]

Luke Rockold said when he when he was

weighing in when he fought him, he said,

"This guy's got muscles on his [ __ ]

teeth." Yeah. On his mark. Exactly,

bro. But if you go back to Vtor when he

fought Anderson Silva before they had

testosterone use exemptions, he didn't

look like that at all. No, he looked old

actually. He looked like his body was

relaxed. Yeah. Because Vtor Yeah. So

this is the look at the difference

before you saw it and after you saw it.

I mean that is a crazy example. So when

he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked

soft and like his muscles look empty.

They just didn't look the same. And that

was just a couple of years after test.

They [ __ ] up with the testosterone use

exemption because what they did was they

would test guys and if you're low on

testosterone, oh, you can have a

testosterone use exemption. But you

could get low on testosterone in a night

if you wanted to. All you'd have to do

is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink

and stay up all night and your body's

natural levels of testosterone would be

low. So you could go get drug you who

has normal healthy levels of

testosterone. You could wreck your body

on purpose, then go get drug tested and

they say, "Oh, Ilia, you have low

testosterone. I'm going to prescribe to

you testosterone exemption." And so then

you go and take testosterone, you become

a [ __ ] animal and and you're healthy.

You don't need it. So there was a lot of

guys that were taking it that didn't

need it. So you think that at this point

there are guys in the UFC that are take

uh taking like uh steroids, let's say. I

would imagine there's for sure someone

doing something they're not supposed to

do. Yeah. Wow. I don't know because at

this point I feel that they are so

strict with the they are so strict.

There's a lot of guys that do their

camps in far away lands and I think that

like people always used to joke around

about Dagistan, you know, like try try

getting a USADA guy into Dagistan, you

know, the moment he lands, everybody's

going to call everybody drug test in in

in Dagistan. They they test Khabib for

example in Dagistan. No, I'm sure I'm

sure they must have. And what if someone

landed from an issue where some guys

from USADA and Kabib's camp they had

like they had some issue some issue.

Yeah, they had some I remember like

something like that. But you go over

there like and you know you want to get

out you got to be careful. Nah, you get

that. Yeah. But I would imagine that if

you want to avoid being tested all the

time, like say like if you are in

America and you know you live in

Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all

the time. They'll test you a bunch, you

know, and there's some people that have

been tested a bunch. They get tested a

lot. And then some people that don't get

tested as much. And if you're going to

go and do your camp in Thailand or

you're going to go do your camp in

Dagistan or it's a lot more difficult to

get to you to test you randomly. Yeah.

But they can anyway, so you can trust on

on if they come or not. But there's

short acting stuff. There's like um when

uh Alex Rodriguez

is that A-Rod, right? Yeah. When he was

fighting or excuse me, when he was

playing baseball rather, they were

taking gummies, testosterone gummies.

Okay. And the testosterone literally

only lasts for a few hours and it's out

of your system. Wow. Yeah. I never heard

that. Yeah. There's certain stuff that

you can take like EPO that's very

shortlasting, very difficult to test,

very shortlasting. And there's in my

case, I don't like that because I

wouldn't feel good with myself, right?

I'm I'm going to feel like I'm cheating,

right? I I don't deserve the the whim

because I'm cheating. I'm a cheater. I I

can't have that thought that that

thought about myself all the time. I

when I walk inside the octagon, I feel

that I didn't cheat and I deserve the

win and that's why I'm going to win.

Well, that's why guys like BJ Penn are

so impressive cuz BJ Penn was clean when

everybody was cheating. Yeah, cuz back

then it was really difficult to test.

All they tested was at the weigh-ins.

So, at the weigh-ins, that's like an

intelligence test. Like if you cheat and

take steroids intelligently, by the time

you get to the weigh-ins, you're going

to be clean. If you do it with a doctor,

I know camps and I don't want to say the

names, but they had scientists working

for the camps. And the scientists, these

doctors would study guys blood work and

make sure that they were clean by the

time they got into camp or by the time

they got into the weigh-ins. So when

they were on the scale, they still had

all the benefits of steroids, but they

had no steroids in their system and

their body hadn't started to deteriorate

yet from the lack of steroids. I know

some camp camps also that they use

steroids. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, for

me, you can have all the muscles in the

world, but if you are not mentally

strong because that's so specific moment

when you are in the backstage, you need

your mind so badly. You need it more

than your body sometimes

because as I told you, you can have all

the muscles in the world, but you need

this muscle as strong as possible, you

know. And if you know you cheated and

you know you're cheating bad. Yeah. That

you are not in what you in reality are

saying that you are. Right. Right.

Right. That that's a tough one. I don't

want to I don't want to see myself in

that situation. Never. That's a

champions mindset. Yeah. Yeah. That's a

real champions mindset. Some guys, they

just want to do anything to win. They

want to do anything to win. When and if

they have to cheat to win, they'll

cheat. They'll And they they'll justify

it by saying everybody cheats. Yeah. I

I'm a God believer and and my mindset is

like, of course, I want to win. I

prepare myself to win. But if he

destroys my plans is because maybe my

plans could destroy me. So I don't want

to have anything because I want to have

it if he decides it. If God decides to

to give it to me, I accept it. I will do

everything to get it because I desire it

from all my heart. And if he says that

if I desire it, I have the faith, I will

get it. M so this and the reality is if

you give everything you have and you

lose you win a lesson and you realize

you're not at the level that you need to

be there's never a lose or you win or

you learn and learn learning is also a

winning right where did you develop your

mindset have you got any mental coaching

did you read books on psychology I I

read a lot of books I try to read at

least uh 30 minutes a day but it's every

day every day what you do and and and

your daily habits it it what's what

makes the difference right because we

can decide our future but we can decide

our habits and our habits decide our

future

yes yeah so like what kind of stuff do

you read

uh I read more like

um I I read a lot of books I love

reading books

uh of self-development books.

also how can I tell you in

and yeah this is the most of the books I

I I read self-development books I I read

biographies of of the people that I like

for example do Donald Trump Warren

Buffett I read that kind of people

businessmen yeah I try to

why do you read businessmen's

biographies because at the end of the

day. Right now, I'm in sports, but at

some point, I'm going to retire and I'm

going to make a I have to make a living

from from something, right? Because I'm

I'm not going to be fighting my whole

life and I don't want it even. So, yeah,

I want to I want to prepare myself. So,

if you want to have extraordinary life,

you have to be extra extraordinary

person, right? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.

And I'm trying to to become an

extraordinary person in all walks of

life. In all walks of life. Yeah. So, do

you have an idea of when you want to

retire?

Um, how old do you know? Till I enjoy.

28. 28. 28. Till I enjoy. I don't know

how many fights.

Maybe till 32, 34. Really? Yeah. I don't

know. Till I enjoy. Right now, I'm

enjoying. I don't know what's going to

happen tomorrow. So, you'll take that

road when it comes. What do you mean? uh

you'll find when it when that happens

when you no longer enjoy then you will

go on a different path

then you will retire. I don't know right

now I I I want to become a lightweight

world champion. I want to hold that belt

too. So I don't know what's what's going

to happen then if I'm going to keep

motivated. It's kind of difficult. This

is a fight game. Five game is so hard.

so hard because you have to go in and

shake someone's head off and you can't

you can't be that soft guy, you know

what I mean? Like that kind guy. You

have to be you you got to have that

testosterone app. You got to be vicious.

Exactly. Yeah. You got to be technical,

you got to be smart, but you also have

to be vicious. And at the same time,

everyone from my family is involved in

in in my career. You know, at some point

maybe I will end

up do a different things. Maybe some

businesses. Right now I'm I'm I'm doing

different things and I'm enjoying it

also. So you're doing different things

outside of fighting. Yeah, I have a

promotion in Spain right now. Oh, MMA

promotion. MMA promotion. What's it

called? Wo. Wo. And the goal with Wo is

to to because as you mentioned when you

say wo, how you how you spelling that?

Uh way of the warrior. Oh wow. Okay. So

from Spain to get to the UFC before was

so difficult. I had to do so many crazy

things to to get to the UFC. But right

now, we create WO and actually we are in

the UFC fight pass. Everyone can get in

in in that promotion fight if you have

the the skills, if you are ready,

someone's going to see you and they're

going to sign you in the UFC. The

promoter's life is a hard life. That's a

hard job. Yeah. You think so? Yeah. It's

very entertaining to be honest. When I

talked to Dana at least promoting for

the UFC, like I was talking to him this

weekend and he was telling me all the

issues that they're having and with

different fights that was ask I was

asking him some questions like what are

you doing with this? What are you doing

with that? And he starts telling me that

oh this guy wants that this I won't

fight this guy. He told you something

about me. Maybe maybe a little bit if he

did I can't tell you. I did ask who

you're going to fight and they said

we're working on things. But uh he was

actually specifically talking about um

what happens if Bal wins.

You know, because uh Islam and Bal have

been they've been talking about Islam

fighting Bal. That's going to happen. I

would like that to happen if Bal wins,

but that's an if. Jack Dela Matalena is

a bad [ __ ] He's good, man. That

guy's good. Even if he wins, they're

going to make that fight happen against

Islam. You think so?

Yeah. Well, if Jack Damatelena wins,

then Jack is the new welterweight

champion and you know, maybe he fights

Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The

problem with Islam fighting Bal is that

they train together and I think, you

know, they'd kind of sit. How many guys

we we see fight fight fighting between

each other that they used to train

before? Oh, I agree. I mean, I think

they should fight. I definitely think

they should fight. I think Kabib doesn't

like that idea.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's how I feel. But it's not

just that. I mean, Jana is always

putting out a million fires. I mean,

think about it. They have 500 fighters

on the way on in the roster at least.

And, you know, there's all these things

that are happening and like like the

Arman Surukian thing like his back hurts

the day of the fight. Wow. He's got to

pull out like this is [ __ ] crazy.

This is, you know what I mean? Like

imagine that you have this whole

promotion based around this uh elite

fighter who's who fought Islam in his

first fight, short notice. They they go

to a very close decision, a very close

fight. Arman's gotten a lot better.

Islam's gotten a lot better. Then

they're going to fight again and then

the day of he hurts his back.

Crazy. It happens. Yeah. Very crazy.

Yeah. But if you will be in the Danish

place, who would be my next opponent?

Islam. 100%. 100%. I wish they I tried

to tell him that this weekend. That

would be a great fight. Yeah, it's the

that's the fight to make. Uh because you

have a world champion versus a world

champion. Like if anybody deserves a

fight for the world title in the next

weight class, it's you. It's it's

simple. It's simple. You knocked out Max

Holloway. I mean, it's simple. You

knocked out Alexander Vulcanowski, one

of the greatest of all time. It's

simple. That's a no-brainer. That's the

fight. You know, he doesn't want to

fight 45 anymore. He wants to fight 55.

World titers. And nobody would argue

with that. That would be a huge fight.

Everybody would get excited about it.

Yeah. Yeah, hopefully they they make

those fights happen. Yeah, hopefully. I

don't have any say. Like I said, I'd get

rid of the cage. I'd get rid of

standups. I get I'd [ __ ] everything up

for them. I would make it uh less

marketable probably. I would. Anyways,

if they give me the fight with Charles,

it's going to be one, too. That's a

great fight, too. That's a great fight,

too. There's a lot of guys in that

division. You know, there's there's a

lot of good fights for you at 155

pounds. Do you have a timeline of when

you would like to fight at 155?

I would like to fight with with Islam.

That's for sure. I I would like to fight

him. But if they don't give you that

fight if they give you like a number one

contender fight. When would you like to

fight next? I I wouldn't fight for a

number one contender fight. You only

want to fight for the title. Yeah, of

course. Really? Okay. Of course. I

understand. That makes sense to me.

Look, also it's the most marketable

fight. Everybody else has lost to him,

right? I don't care if Islam decides

that he doesn't want to fight me. I

don't care. I sit till you're going to

have to fight me. Okay? You say that you

are the world champion. You're going to

keep dominating the the division, all

that. I'm here. You you you can't keep

avoiding me all the time. So, you would

just sit on the sidelines rather than

fight someone else. I don't think that

they're going to do that. I don't think

they they would put me on a sideline

because they asked me to. I I wade the

bell because I told him that I wouldn't

fight in 145 again, but I get the

promise that I would fight for

Tyler in my next fight. Mhm. So, how

much time you will stop me and from the

fighting? So, they did give you a

promise that your next when you vacated

the belt that your next fight if they

give that that chance to everyone, why

why not to me? They gave it to Henry

Sahul. They gave it to Conor McGregor.

They gave it to George Aier. They gave

it to to Jo. They gave it to everyone,

right? And I proved that I deserve that

shot. As you said, I I knock out uh two

of the all-time greats. Two two of the

all-time greats. Two of the greats. Walk

who who was like dominating everyone in

in 145 division. And Max

Holloway, great fighters, bo both of

them, especially after Max Holloway's

victory over Justin Gachi, which is like

the greatest victory of his career.

Yeah. to knock him out after that and no

one did it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean,

I'd say world title fight, but I don't

get to make the rules. And the last

fight he had was in 155, right, against

Justin Gachi, who also fought for the

title. Yep. So, yeah. And then the other

thing is there's not really a compelling

challenger at 155 other than you. If you

look at it like he's kind of cleaned out

the division. There's no no one else. I

mean, Arman's got to build himself back

up. He's not going to get a title shot.

I would put Justin Gachi against Patty

Pimble. Me against Islam. Once I pass

him, I get the title. And you you you

put me against Patty because I think

that he he's gonna You think Patty's

going to beat Justin Gage? Easy. Wow.

Really easy. Yeah. Easy. Really easy.

Yeah. Wow. That's a crazy thing to say

because Justin Gage is a [ __ ] animal.

Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple

and pen knows how. But he's a division

one wrestler. He knows how to grapple.

You don't think he knows how to gra? He

just chooses not to. He chooses to stand

and fight. I don't think so. Did you

ever saw him submitting someone? I don't

believe he's ever submitted someone, but

I think that's because he likes to just

crush people. He likes to bang it out

and fight. He used to fight. What

everyone likes is to dominate people and

and to win as soon as possible. If you

have the ability to submit someone as

soon as you can, you would do it.

I think that's your mindset. I think

Justin Gates's mindset is to be the most

violent person alive. Yeah. Yeah. And I

think that's one of the reasons why he

lost some fights early in his career

because he took unnecessary chances and

he fought recklessly. Then as he

adjusted later in his career, he fought

more intelligently. He took a lot of

risks still, but he was more intelligent

about it. He was more intelligent about

the way he approached fights and then he

started winning and beating guys and

that you know like where he might have

like thrown himself into wars before

like the Michael Johnson fight was just

chaos. Just a war just the first fight

in the UFC just throws himself into

chaos that fight. Yeah, chaos. Yeah, he

would just throw he would just try to

see he was like Michael Chandler but a

better fighter, you know, just more

successful at it at a high level. So,

you pick Justin Gachi over Patty? I

don't say that. Um, I do think that

Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a

lot of miles on him. Although he's a

[ __ ] animal. And how old is Justin

Gage? Justin's probably 35. How old is

Justin? 36. Turns 37 in November. Yeah,

that's when it starts to slip away. If

you're natural everything after 35, like

this is one of the most extraordinary

things about Alexander Vas. I don't

think that he's the type of guy that

takes care of his body all the time and

he's like very strict with his health. I

think he slept more at at day than at

night. Oh, you think so? Did he parties?

I think so. I don't know. They put the

camera on him on the last pay-per-view

and he looked like he was so high.

Like this high I'm not worried about.

What I'm worried about is drunk. Cuz

high doesn't give you the hangover. High

doesn't kill your body. Drunk kills your

body. If guys are in between camps

getting fat and drinking, that's never a

good sign. That's a bad sign. That

that's because you're not just not

training, you're deteriorating your

body. You know, if Justin Gay is just

smoking a little weed, I'm not worried

about that. Um it's not the best for

focus. He doesn't seems to be that guy

that drinks a lot. No, I don't think so.

I don't think so. Cocaine is the worst.

worst. When you hear guys doing coke,

that's the worst. That's the one that

deteriorates you more than anything. I

never ever saw a cocaine in my life. Me

neither. I never never done cocaine

either. I when I was a kid, I had a a

friend whose cousin was hooked on

cocaine. I got to see it up close. Yeah.

I was like, "Fuck that stuff." That's a

scary one for fighters, too, because the

thrill of cocaine, for some reason, is

exciting to people who love like

exciting things. Like, there's something

about fighters are adrenaline junkies.

They like to be pumped up and yeah,

Connor seems to enjoy it, which is one

of the things that makes me think he

probably won't come back. But if he does

come back, it's got to be now, you know,

again at 36 years old now. Patty

Pimpblelet,

that's the fight. That'll be a big

That's going to be a big fight. Big

fight. Yeah. But I don't even think

Connor's in the drug testing pool

anymore.

No. I don't believe so. I don't believe

so. See if you can Google that, find out

if he's in a draw. I think he pulled

back. He's gonna come back. You think

so? Yeah. If they give the the

opportunity to to I don't know to to

guys like I don't know what 40 years old

Arloski. You can have so many names that

they fought at four years at four years

age. Why not Conor? I know that you want

a world title fight at 155, but would

you make an exception for a Conor

McGregor fight in 155?

But right now, right now? No. No. No.

Good for you. Do you think it's going to

be excited if I beat Islam and then I

give the the the chance to Connor? No. I

mean, like right now before Islam, like

if the the UFC calls you up and says, "I

know you want a world title fight. We

guarantee you a world title fight after

this." Actually, we had that talks like

Really? Yeah. But yeah, I don't know.

What was that? What was that talk? Tell

me what that talk was like. No, no, no.

Come on. Come on. Come on.

I did this one and I'm going to get some

calls that you know how the UFC is. They

are like very specific. Don't say

anything, right? To no one. Well, no

one's listening. You can tell everybody.

Yeah. Yeah.

Only couple of million of people is

listening. Yeah.

It'll slip right by. Yeah. If they offer

me a fight against Connor right now,

we'll say why not? Why not? Why not?

Why? I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't say

no. Just for the numbers to get a cut of

that pay-per-view and it hits two

million pies. Yeah. Woo. Why not? That's

the thing about Connor is like still

even though he might not be the best

fighter in the world right now, he's

still the he's the golden goose. Of

course he is. Yeah. That's something you

can't take kind of amazing. you know

that still he still guarantees that many

eyeballs will go to see him. You know,

it just that would be a a great one. But

what excites me more is the fight with

Patty. Really? Yeah, that fight excites

me even more. And if they could put that

fight in Spain in the Bay Nabu Stadium.

Oh, I I know that Dana doesn't like to

to to put the events in stadium, but

that's the only stadium in the world

that they can close the roof. Oh, okay.

Yeah. And this prepared for that kind of

How many people? 80,000.

You get 80,000 in Spain easy, too. Yeah.

If you're fighting in Spain, no problem.

Oh my god, that would be insane. I might

have to go to Spain for that. And and a

lot of people could travel from England

to Spain. Oh yeah. And that happens very

often. But if they do it in Spain, it's

got to be on Spain time. They can't do

that [ __ ] that they did when Leon

Edwards fought. It has to be in Spain

time. But I think that the with

the like the negotiations they they are

having with ESPN and I don't know in

which platform they are going to put the

UFC events.

They're going to ask for space for four

or five events in Europe in the prime

time for Europe. Europe this is listen

Europe time prime time is fine because

it's in the afternoon in America. That's

fine. So the fights at 1:00 in the

afternoon you people watch football

games 100 million people watch a

football game stills to be a virgin uh

market. You know what I mean? You got

500 million people in Europe. It's more

than the United States even, right? And

if they did it on Netflix, everybody has

Netflix. Everybody has Netflix. That

might happen. That's why they're in

negotiation right now. That will be a

massive one in Spain. In Spain against

that that pimple.

What happened with you two? Because I

saw the video where you guys are yelling

at each other. Was it in a hotel or

something? Yeah, he said something about

Georgia. Oh, he said something about

your country. Yeah, he What did he say?

He said like, "Now I understand what why

the why the Russians are are um bombing

Giorgio or something like putting bombs

in Georgia." Like,

whoa. Don't joke with that. You can joke

about me. Say whatever you want to say

about me. Whatever. He's a mushroom.

He's this. He's that. Da da da. Don't

talk about war because you don't know

how is it, right? That's a crazy thing

to say. Don't say that. Yeah. So, that

was the beginning of it. It just out of

nowhere he said that. He said that on

Twitter. Oh, wow. He said that on

Twitter. Maybe he was too high, too

drunk. I don't know. He was talking

[ __ ] you know? I mean, it gets people

to pay attention. He's really good at

getting people to pay attention, you

Yeah, he is. He's really good at that. I

mean, he could be the next Conor

McGregor star. Like that kind of a star

where the whole world is watching. That

weird personality. Yes. Yeah, he has

that. Well, he's very disarming cuz

people they see I talked about this in

the last pay-per-view. I said I said

it's a very sneaky trick because guys

like you, you look at you, the way you

carry yourself, the way you that's a

fighter. Like you look at that guy's a

dangerous [ __ ] But when you see

Patty, he's dancing like this. His hair

is flopping around like he's in the

Beatles, you know? He's like, he seems

silly, but then he [ __ ] people up. And

so I think people he [ __ ] people up

like Michael Chandler, right? But when

he he he faced a real fight, who who did

he face? Well, he hasn't faced anyone

that good yet, but he [ __ ] up Michael

Chandler better than Charles Olivera

did. It does. And Charles Oluea even

this what what I was telling you before,

like when you got 10 losses in your

record, that's not one, two, three,

four, five, six. That's 10. Yeah. Like

when you walk in with a guy that has 10

loes, the level of confidence is

completely different. It's completely

different than when you walk in with a

guy that it's undefeated, right? He's a

dangerous guy in the striking, in the

ground game, everywhere. You you look at

him, he's a dangerous guy. He never

tastes a lose. That's a different

mentality. You got to you're going to

have to kill him to give up. He's not

going to even give up. You're going to

have to kill him. In the case of

Charles, if he finds some adversity,

he's going to go to the to to to the

ground. He's gonna sit and he's gonna be

waiting like till you you end up the

fight. This is what I think. This is

what I feel. This is what I see. That

was certainly the case early in his

career. I think things changed with him

when he had a child. Um then he went on

that run and became a champion. And like

when he beat Justin Gai, when he beat

all those guys, he was he was pretty

elite, man. He was really [ __ ] good.

When he beat Chandler, when Chandler had

beat him up in that first round, he came

back in the second round and [ __ ] him

up. Who? Chandler.

Yeah. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I

get it. Uh Connor's been tested 11 times

last year, five the year before, none

this year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

This He was tested this year. No, none

this year. None this year. That's what

I'm saying. 11 times last year. Yeah.

I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool

anymore. I don't know. I don't know. You

know, I've heard no plans. You know, the

UFC would tell me. I would say, "What's

going on with Connor?" And I don't even

bring it up anymore. It's I think with

him it's going to happen like instantly

if something happens. Well, that's

crazy. I mean, if he's going to prepare,

he needs like a real long camp to really

get his body back to fighting shape,

like real fighting shape. And he's got

to remember, you know, what happened

when he came back from boxing and then

fought Dustin Porier. It depends who

he's going to face because if you put

him against against me, he needs to die

and be burned again.

Yeah, I hear

you. Yeah. If when you when you think

about like your division when you were

um the the champion at 145, would he

have been the fight that you would have

wanted when he was in his prime at 45?

Would that be the number one fight that

you would wanted at 145? For sure. Yeah.

For sure. My god. For sure. He was a

dangerous guy in 145. He was so big. He

was big, dangerous. Yeah, he had that

knockout power. Smart. Yeah.

Yeah. One shot knockout power. Yeah. He

He had that. Yeah. But when he would

make 145, I remember uh that was back

when the weigh-ins were literally right

there. You'd weigh a guy in and then

they they would cheer in front of the

crowd. Now the weigh-ins are early and

it's a ceremonial weigh- in. So when

Connor would weigh in, he would look

like death.

death. Yeah. See if you can find the

video of the weigh-ins with Conor

McGregor versus Jose Aldo. He looks like

he was on a boat in the middle of the

ocean for 6 months. Like, look at him.

Look at his face. Wow. Look at his face.

Look at that one right there with Mike

Goldberg. Click that one with Mike

Goldberg right here. Yeah. Click on

that. My god. Look how [ __ ] skinny he

looks. Look at his face, his cheekbones.

He looks like he just got out of like

some Russian prison. Like, you know what

I mean, bro? That one on the right is

insane.

It's [ __ ] insane. with muscles.

That's insane. I wonder how much weight

he lost.

I think he he he walks around in 185.

So, he lost 40 pounds before he fought.

That's crazy.

He fought also at at the welterweight

division, right? Yes, he fought uh well

he fought Donald Cerrone who was really

not a welterweight either. He was a 155

pounder, you know, but he wanted to

fight welterweight when he came back.

Like when they were talking about

Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at

middleweight and Chandler was like,

"Okay, like but you know, part of me

wonders like whether he was ever really

going to come back." You know, it's

you know what I mean? He's going I

really think that at some point he's

going to he's going to come back because

I don't think that he he he wants to

leave the sport with a defeat, right?

This what uh what I don't think I think

that he's going to come back, try to get

the win, and then retire in the octagon.

Well, I'd like to see that. I'd like to

see him one more time. Um it'd be good

for him, too, to actually go to a real

camp and stop partying, you know. will

be good for him, for his family, for

everyone, for everyone. But but at some

point, he's going to stop. He's got a

lot of legal problems, too. You know,

there's a lot going on with him in

Ireland. But he he's running for the

president. Well, they're talking about

prosecuting him for old tweets, too.

Ireland Yeah, Ireland is going crazy

with their woke [ __ ] with uh with the

restrictions and censorship. The same

way the UK is. It's it's really scary

stuff. But they're prosecuting people

for tweets. That's crazy. Yeah. England

arrested like 4,000 people last year for

posting things on social media. No way.

Yeah. Yeah.

What did they say? You don't even have

to say anything crazy. You know, you

could just say, "I don't want any more

immigrants in my country," and they'll

they'll [ __ ] prosecute you. It's

really crazy. Wow. Yeah. It's it's

that's not a freedom. No, it's not at

all. Free speech. That's it's

totalitarian government. And it's it's

scary because it's uh they're they're

using it to silence people to silence

people's uh opinions and crazy. Um see

if you can find what's going on with

Connor because there was something about

Conor McGregor possibly being prosecuted

for social media posts from I believe it

was

2023. Some recent posts that he had made

where they were going to bring them back

up and prosecute him for it. And he had

also like the the case with the rabbits

and all that. Yeah. And I think because

he wants to run for president, of

course, then they're going to use the

law to try to stop him because look,

he's very popular in Ireland and he

might win, you know? I mean, if if these

people think that their country is being

invaded by to some people from Ireland,

like what are the odds that Con becomes

the the president? They told me like

probably zero. Conor McGregor will not

face charges over social media posts

made before and during the Dublin riots.

Yeah. You know what? They said that

about Trump, too. That Trump wasn't

gonna win either. They said Trump wasn't

Yeah. All the [ __ ] newspapers,

everything was saying the chances are

none. No, but I asked to the people. I

didn't ask. I didn't read the depends on

who you're talking to, though. Yeah. You

know, it it really depends on how he

conducts himself. To him. Oh, to him.

Okay. Okay. They're like, "No way."

Yeah. Yeah. Look, he should be fighting

and he should be fighting while he can

because you don't want to be 49 years

old sitting back thinking if you could

have just won more. Could have got it

together if I just stopped

partying. I really think that he's going

to come back at some point, but we'll

see. There's also the problem of that

shin, you know, when a shin snaps like

that, that's a nobody really comes back

from that and fights. His body is

[ __ ] He his toy is fact. His chin is

fact. his body's [ __ ] with with that

that much parties and drugs and all

that. You're going to have to pay that

price at some point. Yeah. And you are

you are paying the price with your

health. Yeah. Which is the dumbest thing

you can do in in your entire life. It

is. It is a dumb thing especially for an

athlete. Exactly. Yeah. He he also

suffered a lot with the weight cuts.

That's a a big damage for your body.

That's also one of the reasons why I

changed the the weight class because I

realized that my health is the most

important thing in in in my life. You c

you can have everything in in this life,

but if you are not healthy, you don't

have anything. Yeah. You you know,

you're when you're cutting that much

water out of your body, you're

essentially getting to death's door.

You're getting to death's door 24 hours

before you fight. But you at a world

championship level, which is crazy.

You sometimes feel that you're really

going to

die. I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours

at all because I was so dehydrated. My

body was so like skinny and I was

dreaming with water, with food, with

everything. I was my social media and

reals everything was about the food foot

food. Everything was about food. At that

moment you don't give a [ __ ] about

anything material about anything. So

tell me when you start. So if you were

going to make 145 on Saturday, what is

your weight cut like or on Friday? What

is your weight cut like for the week?

When does it start? And what do you

weigh before it starts? So okay,

basically I start a weight cut since the

first day I started the training camp,

which is 12 weeks. Really? Yeah. I'm on

like very strict diet and I have only

one cheat meal a week on Saturday, on

Wednesday, whenever I choose it. I have

just one cheat

meal. And at the same time, you have to

perform at the highest level. You have

to train as a [ __ ] all the time.

And you have

like 1,800 calories in your body and you

burn four 4,000 calories. Wow. So you

are wasting so much energy but you

aren't getting

back a very low. So that [ __ ] with your

mind right that [ __ ] with your mind

and you don't feel happiness you feel

like stressed

depressed. You don't find the happiness

in anything. They could bring you all

the money in the world but you don't

give a [ __ ] at at that moment in about

anything material. So, you're doing it

all through camp, but when you get to

fight week, what do you what do you

weigh at? Uh, we do the the the water

load. I start on Sunday with eight

liters, and I don't have carbohydrates.

I don't have any sodium, uh, salts and

all that. Uh, do you drink distilled

water? Uh, distilled water. Yeah. Oh,

distilled. Do you know what I'm saying?

No, no, no, no. Just just normal water.

Okay. H I'm not not having

carbohydrates, uh sodiums and fibers.

You you say fibers fibras. Yeah, fiber.

Yeah. I only have fat and and proteins

in a very small portions. And I drink

eight liters on on Sunday, then eight

again on

Monday, six on Thursday. Wednesday I

drink four I think. And then on on

Thursday I don't drink anything till

Friday till the weightins really. And

before the weighins I start to

dehydration the the dehydration like we

do one session in the

morning and I have to lose almost from

two to three kilos and the rest I have

to I have to lose at at night because I

always like to go to the bed uh on on

weight. I don't I don't like to wake up

in the morning and have to cut the the

last part in the morning on Friday

morning. When did you start drinking

wine before weigh-ins? I did it twice in

my in my career. It was once in in Las

Vegas. I was supposed to fight with I

was fighting with Damon

Jackson and I

had I had like

still six kilos or something like this.

That's a lot. That's a lot of weight to

cut. And the guy who was uh taking care

of my nutrition, he he called us and he

told me, "Drink wine. Drink half half

bar of wine." I'm like, "You sure?" Yes.

He told me because if you drink a liter

of wine, you're going to wake up the

next day if you don't put anything else

in your body with two liters less

dehydration. Yeah. Because the the the

alcohol it's going to

uh procate the dehydration.

I did it and it

works. And after that I did it in my

next fight.

But then I was like, I don't feel good.

I don't feel good doing this in the wake

up. This is kind of crazy. It's fun.

It's fun because everyone wants to I

don't know. Everyone is almost dying.

that that that night I was like partying

with my team so skinny drinking wine.

I'm like what the [ __ ] we doing? And

after one day I have to I have to fa

face a monster in inside the

octagon experience in life. And so then

you weigh in and then what is the

rehydration process like? And so I I

used to drink the

electrolytes until I don't start to pee.

I don't put any food in my body. I drink

almost for three four hours in small

portions. And right now we are so lucky

that we have the performance institute.

We have great nutritionist in in in in

that program that help us to to do it

from the right way. So I start drinking

in half liter of of electrolytes for

example let's say for 20 minutes I have

to drink that I can drink more then one

one that 20 minutes passed I have to

drink the another bottle and like that

progressively

and so once you start to pee then you

allow yourself to eat food. Exactly. And

what kind of food are you eating?

Most likely carbohydrates. I don't used

to eat any proteins because it doesn't

help you at all to to have a great

performance in inside the octal, right?

Because the protein

doesn't give you

any how say how to

say glucosa glucose. Yeah, glucose that

your body needs at at that time. You

everything you need it's

electrolytes and carbohydrates. That's

all you need. Not even fibers.

Okay. So, like what kind of food? Like

pasta? Like that kind of stuff? Pasta.

How good does that taste after all that

time, bro? Amazing. Amazing. You You

could cook the pasta for me that day.

And I don't know how good you cook, but

it will be amazing. Amazing. I don't

care about So, you've gone so long

without carbohydrates.

I have like almost a week and a half

without

carbohydrates and I'm struggling for 12

weeks because I have only one cheat

meal. So once I I finish the cheat meal,

I know that in one week I'm not going to

have another cheat meal. So I'm going to

have to eat whatever they tell me to to

to eat. Like I wake up, I know that I'm

going to have two eggs with one slice of

bread and I'm going to have to train I

don't know how much in the morning and

then in the afternoon I'm going to have

to train again and I'm going to have the

same food all the time. And the the good

thing about that is that my

wife she she was like a very important

part in my last training camps because

he made

my my diet more more fun. You know, I

didn't had to to repeat the food all the

time because when I was in charge of

that, just imagine what I was eating all

the time the same. All the same. just

the same boring food just get through

the month food because I didn't even had

like the the opportunities that I have

right now. Right now I have a chef. I

have I set up my home with everything.

Everything is so comfortable. But before

I had to cook for myself, uh go to the

supermarket doing everything for by

myself and it was tough. So all the

foods weighed out, all the calories are

measured, everything's very systematic.

Um, so with this extra 10 lbs, how much

better do you think you'll be able to

perform inside the octagon? Because I

would imagine physically that's got to

take a toll on you. As good as your

performances were, and they were

spectacular, but as good as your

performances were, your body could not

have been operating at 100%.

100%. You are going to see me at 155

that I'm going to touch someone and I'm

going to take his lights out. Even if I

I don't need to touch his chin. I just

touch his head and it will explode. I

feel so powerful at that weight class.

So power, so stable in the ground. Like,

do you want to wrestle? Let's wrestle.

No problem. And I have the gas tank for

five days, not five rounds. Do you think

that a lot of fighters maybe diminish

their potential by competing at a lower

weight class for too long? It depends.

depends. Some of them, yes. Some of them

know because I think there are guys

fighting in 145

that they could fight in 135 because

they are smaller. They like Josie Aldo.

Like Jos Aldo. I mean he was one of the

best ever at 145 and really looks

fantastic now at 135. Exactly. And says

this is the first time at 35 in his

career that he's ever taken nutrition

seriously and had a diet. But at the

same time he was a world champion right

for so long. one of the best and one of

the best. May May he he would cut the

weight at 135 and he wouldn't succeed at

this level, right? Cuz he wouldn't have

the energy, but Jose Aldo was big at 145

back in the day. He would struggle to

make 145 earlier in his career, but I

just think he wasn't doing it the right

way like you're doing it. You know, I

think athletes of today are much more

systematic about that and they have more

information about the nutrition. And

they have we we got more help from the

performance institute as they told you

like the UFC performance institute is

incredible there when when I remember

when they first opened it I was a little

skeptical. I'm like who's going to use

this? What is the big deal? And then I

went there I was like oh bro okay crazy.

This is amazing. Without them you

wouldn't see many of the fights that we

have seen. A lot of people would miss

the weight. A lot of people. Yeah. So at

155 you're going to be able to eat more.

You're going to be able to train more.

or you'll be able to recover better.

Like everything much better. They're

really taking care of you. I can't wait.

I can't wait to see it. I can't wait

either. I can't wait. I want to fight.

So, take me through like what is a

typical training week like for you? How

much strength and conditioning do you

do? How much uh how much do you

concentrate on technique? How much do

you spar?

Outside or inside the training camp? Um,

let's go with outside the training camp

first. So, out outside the training

camp, I try to develop my skills in

every discipline. Like I try to to not

mix it up. I don't train MMA at all. I

do boxing classes, wrestling classes. I

try to learn every discipline separate.

Why do you do that? Because when the

training camp

comes, I try to mix it up and polish

everything that I have been able to to

learn till that moment. You know what I

mean? Everything that work worked for me

in in wrestling and boxing in in in the

places where I feel comfortable like

that's why I want to develop all the

time my my knowledge. I want to get

better all the time. And I can get

better if I only go and train MMA and I

only drill the same things all the time,

right? My head is like get getting stuck

getting stuck, you know? I need to learn

new techniques because I I I think that

I have much more to learn in every

discipline. Like in BJJ, you never end

up learning all the time. You learn new

things, you see new things, you want to

try it and it it takes some time. That's

that technique works for you and and

when you're rolling with someone for

example. Right. Right. So yeah, one

thing is what you know and the other is

what you do with what you know. How do

you know how much time to allocate to

each specific discipline? Because

something like Brazilian jiu-jitsu, it's

a neverending journey. Like there's so

many techniques. It's it's un there's so

many different combinations of things

that you could do to a human body when

you're grappling.

So the thing about me is like you have

to decide what kind of style do you want

to have. Do you want to fight from the

guard? You you how do you say guard?

Yeah. You want to pass the guard like

there are different styles. Right.

Right. But at some point I I was I was

like fighting all the time from the

guard. I was doing like the beating

balls, baby balls, everything because I

needed to to feel what the people feels

when I'm passing the guard, the the

guard. Yeah. You know what I mean? So,

the same thing with boxing for example,

someone has a defensive style. Someone

has uh aggressive style but from

distance. Someone needs to cut to to

distance and work more in in the

body. So, I don't know. It's

like it's so difficult to explain

explain it to you. I know what you're

saying though. I think one of your most

impressive performances uh was Josh EMTT

because in Josh Emtt, he's such a

powerful puncher. He's such a dangerous

puncher, but everything he throws you

has murder on it. Everything. But you

just kind of slipped and moved with

everything and just systematically broke

him down. But you adjusted your style

for his danger. you adjusted your style

for him and just dominated the fight. I

think that was one of the most

impressive performances because it

showed how skillful you could be.

Whereas like imagine if Michael Chandler

fought Josh EMTT, it would be [ __ ]

madness. Just madness. Two dudes just

trying to murder each other just [ __ ]

throwing haymakers, you know. But what

you did was you broke down what he was

doing. You found your openings. You

started to get your timing. You started

to figure out, you put all his movements

into your computer and then you you

rolled with everything. Everything he

threw, you rolled with. When he had big

shots, you you moved with them. All his

big

shots were coming with the right hand.

Like he's the type of guy that ends up

every combination with the right hand.

So everything I had to do, it's all the

time. I didn't have to exchange the

punches with him. I had to let him throw

me all the punches, roll his right hand,

and then start with my combinations. And

this is what I really did. Like I I was

hurting him with with with the cuff

kicks. Then I was going for my

combinations and long combinations all

the time. In MMA, no one works the long

combination combinations. No one. They

always used to do one, two, one, two,

three. But no one does one, two, three,

three, four, five, six.

You know, and like the J Herbert fight.

Exactly. Usually you're getting two

punches, everyone blocks two punches,

but after the second one, they put the

hands down again and then is when I go

again like one, two, one, two, three,

four, five. Boom. You are not waiting

for that. And if I change the levels and

I go in the head and the body, cuff

kicks, I go for the takedowns, I mix it

up, you you get crazy. It's interesting

that you didn't start boxing until you

were 17 because you're probably the best

boxer in not just the featherweight

division, but you might be the best

boxer in the sport in terms of your

movement and then your one punch power.

Your one punch power is pretty [ __ ]

crazy, which I think you either have or

you definitely can develop it and it

definitely is dependent upon technique,

but either you have power or you don't

have power. Have you? So, did you always

notice that like from the very beginning

when you first started training? I

always had power. Is that crazy? Yeah,

it is. It's a God-given thing. God-given

thing. 100%. I always had that power. I

remember myself without much technique,

but I was connecting the punches and

putting guys to sleep in the trainings.

And I wasn't that skeptical

guy, but I had that power. But you were

smart enough. See, this is the

difference between like a Josh EMTT

approach and your approach. You were

smart enough to realize that, okay, I've

got this power, but now I need to

develop laser sharp techniques, of

course. And I have to be able to find

the moment. I don't have to just throw

it and believe that I have the power. If

I connect it, I put you to sleep. No,

it's not if I I'm going to connect you

that punch. I'm going to work for that

and I'm going to find that specific

moment to put your lights out. And I

know with everyone, even if in in 155, I

know that I'm going I'm going to be able

to find that find that moment where I'm

going to be able to connect that one

punch or two or three punches because

sometimes it's not only one. I'm able to

combinate punches. You know, sometimes

you think that I'm going for your head

and I'm going my main

combination is to go to the body and I

go to to that with that liver shot and

that hurts also. Oh yeah. Yeah. And

little by maybe I I I I don't knock you

out but it takes a lot of cardio from

you. A lot of moment you start doubting

in yourself. You you getting like wow.

If he connects me with this punch in in

the chin, I'm done. And you're starting

to to to to doubt and then the doubts

kill you at the end. Yeah. It's like

little by little by little. Yeah. It's

um it's interesting how few guys really

work the body. Well, that's one thing

about Jack Dela Matalena is that he's a

very good body puncher, which is one of

the things that I think is very

interesting about this fight with Bal

Muhammad. He's a dangerous body puncher.

He's very good at mixing up and down. No

one uh usually used to attack the body

in the UFC. I don't know why. So, such a

beautiful technique to go to go and work

the body. Not only the head, everyone

goes for the head. Mhm. But there are

also weaknesses in the human being's

body, which is the the body, especially

with those little MMA gloves, you know,

everything hard. Yeah. And you're you're

digging digging into that rib cage. But

it's just it's interesting how the sport

evolves. And I think when a guy like you

comes around that does mix things up so

well and does have elite boxing, the

next generation will also copy you. that

will copy your style, you know, because

like think about the calf kick. There

was no calf kicks forever. Forever. I

don't know when they started with the

calf kick. Benson Henderson. Benson

Henderson. Benson Henderson. He was the

first guy I ever saw do him. He was

doing a lot. And I remember pointing it

out like he wasn't doing it as

effectively where he was like crippling

guys mo movement, but he was doing it a

lot. And then I remember when Dustin

Porier fought Jim Miller, Jim Miller

almost took him out with calf kicks.

Like Justin Porier's calf was destroyed

in that fight and then you know Dustin

Porier became a really good calf kicker

after that and then it became

ubiquitous. Everybody has to have a calf

kick but it comes from Muay Thai. It

comes from kickboxing. It comes from It

sort of does but in Muay Thai they don't

throw it very often. It's not a common

technique in kickboxing or Muay Thai

which is interesting. It's not as common

as it is in MMA. Not so much. It's like

a jab but for the legs.

job. It also cripples your movement

which is terrible because you can't

punch as hard because you don't have a

left leg anymore or right leg depending

on what's forward. And at the same time

it distracts you a lot, right? You know

what I mean? It hurts so much. Yeah. It

hurts. It distracts you. You have to you

you don't only have to think about the

hands, you have to think about also

about the kicks. Well, Izzy said that

when he lost to Alex Pereira the first

fight in in the UFC, he said he wasn't

hurt that bad with the punches. He said

he couldn't move. He said his leg was so

destroyed. He said my leg my left leg

was so compromised I couldn't move. And

then in the second fight when Alex when

he knocked Alex out in the first round,

he said my leg was [ __ ] already. He's

like he was getting me again. He's so

sneaky with that calf kick cuz he throws

it. He's got that weird style. He stands

he and he just kind of throws it out

there and you don't even see it coming

because he's not twisting his hips. He's

not and it's still he hits so hard that

he doesn't have to turn his body weight

into it. and he's still [ __ ] you up.

And at the same time, he had that muscle

memory. He was like, "If he starts with

the calf cake, I'm going to be fucked."

Yeah. He He said that to me. He's like

at the end of the round, I was like,

"Oh, this [ __ ] did it again. I

can't believe he got me again." He's

like, "My leg was fucked." And then he

caught him with that right hand. What's

your alltime favorite fighter to watch

in the UFC?

Boy, I don't think I have one. I don't

think I have one. It's just top five.

Well, you're in there. You're in the top

five. Really? Yeah. For real. Joe,

for real. Yeah, definitely. I mean, how

could you not be? You knocked out two

Hall of Famers. Two of the all-time

greats. Vulcganowski and Max Holloway

are alltime greats. Two of the greatest

featherweight champions. So, if you're a

great featherweight champion, you're the

greatest in a division that probably

has, if not the most skill. There's like

there's an argument for the most skill.

I think it's 45 and 55. I think those

are the two divisions that have the most

skill. Yeah. So to be a a champion at 45

or 55, you're a champion in the most

skillful weight class. Like look at 45.

So many [ __ ] killers at 45 now. Like

look at what Jean Silva just did to

Bryce Mitchell and he wasn't even

ranked. Yeah. You know, I mean this

guy's a [ __ ] man. You know, and

these guys are coming up and they're so

goddamn good. And Yay Rodriguez, you

know, you got these guys that are so

skillful. You got so much talent. I

don't know what to tell you about Gyra

because I'm not a big fan of him. Yer.

Yeah. No. How come? No. No. I don't

know. I I see I see him. He's the type

of guy that you don't even need to take

him down. He goes to the ground by

himself. I don't know. He's like very

spectacular at the way he fights and the

striking and the kicks he throws and all

that.

But I don't know. I'm not a big fan of

him. I'm fan of Wulk and Max Holloway.

Well, actually they were the smartest

guy smartest guys that I ever faced

inside the octagon. I felt that they

were smart. They had that fight IQ. They

they know how to fight. Do you think Max

Holloway made a mistake in going up to

55 and then back down to 45 again cuz he

got big when he fought? 100%. Yeah, I

think so too. 100%. Yeah, he he looked

too compromised. He looked he didn't

look healthy at 45. He get crazy for the

title shot. He was like, "Take the

gold." Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I understand it. I get it.

I understand it. And the guy who was the

145 lb champion, he knew it'd be hard to

make the weight, but he felt like he

could do it. But the thing is, he he

gained so much muscle to get to 55 to

fight Gachi. And he did it over a long

period of time where he really bulked up

well. But at the same time, I don't

know if he wouldn't try it, he would

stay for life like with the doubt that

if I Yeah. Yeah. So, another one is

Pereira just because what he's done

inside the octagon is so crazy. Two

division world champion is a short

period of time and hadn't been fighting

MMA for but three or four years. Crazy.

It was crazy. And it's also what he does

when he hits people. They like what he

did to um well I mean but basically what

he does to everybody when he connects I

mean his his power is just different

than what he did to Jamal Hill one left

hook boom and Jamal Hill who's good at

taking a shot all of a sudden he's gone

you know he's just there's some Yuri

Prohaska that fight like the the second

fight it's crazy crazy he just like he

hits you one time it's like that was

with a with a headkick right uh headkick

in the second round but dropped him with

a left hook he was basically on after

the first round cuz it was at the

buzzer. He hit him with a left hook and

then he drops and then the bell rings.

Um, and then he knocks him out with a

head kick in the second round, but he

he's just got this crazy style that's

different than anybody else's style. And

he's such a specialist, such a

kickboxing specialist. Two division

world champion in glory and then goes on

and becomes a two division special. And

37, you know, he's older. He's an older

guy, you know, to be fighting at such an

elite level, you know. Jon Jones,

definitely. Jon Jones, one of the

greatest of all time. I mean, and John,

what do you think about he's going to

come back? He's going to fight Tom. Yes.

I think he'll fight Tom. I think he'll

hang out. You don't think so? No.

Really? I don't think so. How come?

For

what? For glory. He already has the

glory. Yeah. One more glory before the

lights fade. Yeah. Yeah. I think John's

a conqueror. I think he is. I think he

sit back. He's the best of of all time.

No one can say say the the opposite of

that. He he he's the best. Look, the guy

developed a spinning back kick at 36.

didn't have a spinning back kick his

whole career and all a sudden knocks out

Stipe with a spinning back kick for the

heavyweight title at 36 37 years old.

That's crazy. And uh they showed me a

video the three days ago, four days ago,

John before the fight with Steve, he was

practicing that kick at the day of uh of

the fight. Yes. And he said something

like, "This is the kick. I'm going to

knock him out with this kick." And the

guy showed me the video. That's crazy.

Well, John's fight IQ is insane. Insane.

Insane. Insane. He's a smart he's a

smart guy. And did a lot of his career

partying, which is even crazier. Like

diminish his body. Did co like one of

the things he said to Daniel cocaine,

Daniel Cormier, rather, which is one of

the uh coldest things anybody's ever

said. He said, "I beat you when I was on

Coke."

That's such a cold blooded thing to say.

It's so cold blooded. It's so cold

blooded. Crazy. He's so crazy. He was so

good. But he was so good. He was better

than everybody in his division, so he

didn't work hard. But then when he has

to work hard, he's [ __ ] terrifying.

Like when he fought Alexander Gustoson,

barely trained. They said he barely

trained. Barely was in the gym. They

they were really worried about him. They

were Greg Jackson said they were even

considering not letting him fight.

They're like, "You shouldn't be

fighting. You're not training." Yeah.

And then he he guts it out in the final

rounds, wins the decision, very close

fight. Then they have a rematch. And in

the rematch, he's [ __ ] trained. Yeah.

And then he just destroyed him in the

rematch. The first fight was very

competitive. Second one. Yeah. He

dominated. Not competitive at all. Yeah.

When Jon is focused and Jon is in shape

and training, he's the greatest of all

time. I think he fights Aspenol because

I think it's going to be a lot of money.

It's it's it's glory. And look, Aspenol

is amazing. He's unbelievable. He's fast

as [ __ ] for a heavyweight. He's big. He

can grapple. Black belt and jiu-jitsu.

He's got knockout power. But he's never

been in deep

water ever. I don't even know if he's

gone to a second round. I don't want to

say that he he doesn't have any chance

because everyone has it. One punch can

change everything in in in inside the

octagon. Of course, we everyone think

that Jon Jones is gonna gonna get it,

but you can't count count him out at at

all the Tom Aspina, but I don't think

that he's gonna come back. Me

personally, do you think what is this

here? One time Andrek took him to the

second round. That's it. Oh, really?

Wow. I don't even remember that. And

then he TKO'ed him. That was four years

ago. That's kind of crazy if you look at

his career. It's all one and two. And

then in Bama, he had a two two round

fight. That's great, but it's also not

great because he doesn't have any deep

water experience. You know, if you're

fighting a guy like imagine if he fought

Stipe when Stipe was in his prime or he

fought

Kane, you can't have one round fights

and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a

five round war because the chances are

you're not going to catch him in the

first round and he's gonna his cardio is

just like an alien. Yeah, but at the

same time, you don't know how how he's

going to look at the fourth and fifth

round. He might be great. Might he might

be great. Sure, he might be great, but

he doesn't have that experience. So, in

his head, you've got to think there's

got to be some no matter how confident

he is, there's got to be a couple

questions if you've never been like Jon

has no questions, right? There's no

questions in Jon Jones's head. He's gone

through five round wars like the

Gustoson fight. Five round war, no

training wins. He knows that he's got

what it takes. He's got heart. It's It's

undeniable. So, there's no questions.

But with Aspenol, it's like, yeah, he

can get everybody out of there. He's got

the confidence that he gets everybody

out of there. That's for sure. Like,

he's got the confidence if he connects.

He's so fast and athletic for a

heavyweight. And he's a legitimate

heavyweight. Like Tom Aspenol is not

making 205. He's big. He is big. He's a

big [ __ ] He's big. So for him, you

know, it's But Jon Jones is special.

He's special. He is special and he has

that fight IQ. He's not that type of guy

that he walks in and you, for example, I

don't know, Francis Ninganu, you know

that he he got that one punch power.

Mhm. But he doesn't have the same level

of fight IQ as Jon Jones, right? You

know what I mean? with Jon is like if he

feels that you are dangerous in the

striking, he's going to grab your legs,

try to mold you a little bit in the

ground. Then if you go in the second

round with him in the striking, you're

going to be tired. He also beats the

[ __ ] out of your knees. That front leg

side kick to the knee, the oblique kick

to the knee. He's a bad guy. He wants to

hurt you. He's trying to [ __ ] you up. He

He doesn't care to go with the elbow,

with the knee. He wants to hurt you.

John, when you know when he fought uh

Thiago, Thiago Santos, at the end of

that fight, Thiago needed two knee

surgeries. Both of his knees were

destroyed and he was basically never the

same fighter since ever after that

fight. What happened with that guy? I

never saw him. Never ever. Well, he

fought again after that and he left the

UFC. But his his knees were never the

same. He had multiple knee surgeries

after that fight. Crazy. Both of his

knees got kicked out. I mean, he was

front leg sidekicking the [ __ ] out of

his knees. And what about you used to

train sometimes? MMA, jiu-jitsu. What?

Mostly jiu-jitsu. I did Muay Thai. Yeah,

but I started in taekwond do and then I

started I would love to share some

training with you. I would love to share

some training with you, too. I want to

see what you do, man. I watched you uh

grapple with Morab. I was super

impressed. Yeah. I watched a video you

grapple. I'm like, anybody that could do

that to Morab. Like, holy [ __ ] Cuz

people think about you. They're scared

of your striking. But one of the things,

well, like you opened up a lot of

people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight

because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle.

He was like this elite Brazilian

jiu-jitsu black belt who do a lot of

strange things like he would like turn

his back to people and do weird things.

He'll hook BJ Penn like that in the

first round like with that I role. Yeah.

But when you dominated him like that, I

was like Jesus Christ. And then you put

his lights out, I was like wow. Because

people think when people see a guy who

can strike like you do, they kind of

forget about the ground game. You know,

they forget that your ground game is

very elite, too, you know, which is

really interesting because you you you

tend to put people in categories of

danger, but with you it's all danger.

Like you you're you have a a very

wellbalanced game, you know, which is

unusual. Like Pereira, for instance,

doesn't have a balanced game. you know,

his game is he's going to connect and

you're going to wake up, you know,

that's that's all it is. His his game is

kickboxing, but your game is like it's

everything. It's all over the place, you

know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight.

It's it's everywhere. It's stand up.

It's the ground. It's comprehensive.

It's like George St. Pierre when he was

in his prime. It was coming from all

different angles. You never knew if he

was going to take you down. You didn't

know if he was going to strike with you.

It was all your mind was overwhelmed

with possibilities, which is, in my

opinion, what I like to watch. That's

what I like the most. A guy who can do

everything. I love specialists. I love

like Damen Maya because when Damen Mia

would get you, who'd he clinch you?

Like, oh, you're [ __ ] Back, you're

[ __ ] To this day, the one fight that

drives me the most crazy where a referee

[ __ ] it up was Kamaro Usman and Damen

Mia. Cuz in the first round, Damen Mia

had Camaro Usman's back standing up, had

one leg laced, had his back, but it was

taking too long and the referee

separated them. And I'm like, you

[ __ ] He's so close. He's so

close. This is it. Look at this [ __ ]

Like Camaro Usman's in deep [ __ ] here.

He's in deep [ __ ] here. And the referee

[ __ ] separated

him. This is crazy. He's doing this.

This referee This drives me nuts. Go

back it up a little bit. Back it up a

little bit because it's before this.

It's before this. So like when once he

finally secures it go a little bit

before

that. A little bit before a little bit

before little bit before.

Maybe do it do it right from the moment

where they they clinch up. Okay. Right

here. So as soon as he clinches up and

he ties that leg as soon as he gets his

hands together. Camaro is in deep [ __ ]

right here. Deep [ __ ] Camaro has one

loss on his record and that's by rear

naked choke. And now he's grappling with

one of the best to ever do it. To this

day, this [ __ ] me up. This is one of

the reasons why I hate when they

separate fighters. I hate when they

stand people up and I hate when they

separate fighters. This is a huge

mistake here by this referee because

you've got one of the greatest ground

specialists of all time. Do do you think

that he was the most dangerous guy in in

the ground? Yes. In in his in his prime.

In his prime, he he dominated people.

Oh. Oh god. This is so close, man.

Camaro's in real trouble here. The way

his arm is compromised behind his back.

He's [ __ ] here. You got to get out of

this. You can't get separated just cuz

the crowd's booing. The referee's like

too involved. Get the [ __ ] out of there.

Get out of there and let him work

because if he gets to the ground

tomorrow might be [ __ ] here. And

there's two minutes to work. There's

plenty of time to this day. That drives

me nuts. He's doing something very

interesting there with the with the

butterfly. Yes. With that left

butterfly. Yeah. He's constantly keeping

you off base. And you know that if you

make any mistakes here, that right hook

is coming over. The arm's coming over

the top. As soon as he lets go Yes. So,

as soon as he lets go of that arm, that

arm that he's got trapped, that arm that

he's got trapped with his over with uh

his left arm, as soon as Kamaru is if he

gets that arm over the top of the

shoulder, Camaro's [ __ ] man. This is

a terrible spot to be. And for the

referee to separate them and not let him

work. I was talking to Matt Sarah about

it the other day and he was like, "Yes,

he [ __ ] them." Yeah, he [ __ ] him.

They did. They [ __ ] him. Then Camaro

wins this fight and then, you know, I

watched this fight. The world changes.

It changes because this could have been

a loss and then Camaro could have been

back to the drawing board. It's a bad

situation to be in with a ground. See,

look. Now he has this advantage of being

able to stand up again. like why why

does he have this advantage? Why why you

should be back where you were? There's

no reason to separate those guys.

Referee mistakes are crazy. You know,

like there's there's moments in fights

where referees make mistakes where a

fighter's whole career just changes,

just flashes before their eyes. The

other day also something happened in the

in in the paper in in the car with with

Dan Eager. Yes. Yes. I don't know why he

stopped the fight and yes that that was

a bad decision too. That was bad as

well. Same thing. Sean Woodson. Yeah, I

think he would win the fight anyways,

but he didn't had to stop the fight. It

was a bad stoppage. It was a bad

stoppage. Yeah. Yeah, there's bad

stoppages, Matt. I mean, it happens. It

happened to Jared Canineer. Jared

Cananeer had a bad stoppage. Uh I guess

uh who was that against? Was it Emov?

The worst

tappage, the Robbie Lawler against Ben

Ascarin. Oh yeah, that was the worst.

That was the worst one. That was the

worst one. They thought he was out and

he wasn't out. I was so excited for that

fight. Robbie was beating the [ __ ] out

of him too before that headlock. Yeah,

that was terrible. That was a bad

stoppage. Yeah, there's been some bad

stuff. But you know, look, the referees

have the second hardest job in the

sport. The first hardest job in the

sport. Yeah, here it is. This is Jared

Cananeer and Amov. So he gets Look at

that right there. That's crazy. That's a

crazy stoppage. He stopped the fight.

Why? Yes. No. Yeah. Look at this. He got

hurt. He got hurt, but he's covering up.

And by the way, Jared Caner can [ __ ]

take it, man. He comes back. Jared Caner

came back against Rodriguez in his last

fight. He was hurt way worse than this.

And he came back to score a knockout.

But that was a crazy stoppage. It just,

you know, like I said, referees have the

second hardest job. Fighters have the

first hardest job. Second hardest job is

being a referee. Because those moments

when you make a decision like ah, you

can't take it back. The fight's over.

That's true. It's terrible. It's hard to

be a referee. Yeah, it is. And then

there's the judging. Some judges. The

judging. Yeah. How do they also

Something that drives me crazy. It's

like,

how do they keep having the same bad

judges come back again? That's what's

crazy because the UFC has no control of

the judges. The judges are all

established by the athletic commissions.

Yeah. So sometimes you get great judging

and it's like, "Oh, the judges are good

tonight. These are good decisions." And

sometimes you get, "What the [ __ ] is

going on?" Yeah. Sometimes judges are

horrible. There's horrible. Doesn't make

any sense. You never know if they

give you more points for wrestling, for

striking, for defending, right? It's

crazy. Well, some judges just aren't

qualified, right? They don't have a

martial arts experience. They don't they

don't have a background, you know? They

just learned how to judge that. You

can't I don't think you can do that.

It's like I don't speak Spanish, but if

you taught me some Spanish and then I

was judging Spanish, would I with you

know what I'm saying? Like crazy. I'm

not qualified, right? You are not,

right? So, if you have a guy who doesn't

really understand who's got the dominant

position, like maybe you see a [ __ ]

guillotine that has no chance, it's not

like they never fought. It's they not

even never trained. Right. Exactly. Most

of them. I remember early on in the UFC,

one of the judges

turned to one of the uh people next to

this person. It was a woman. She turns

to this person. He goes, "What is he

doing?" No way. Yeah. Yeah. What is he

doing? Someone was trying to get a

kamura and she's like, "What is he

doing?" She didn't know what a kamura

was. So, how did they get there? They

were boxing judges. So, the boxing

judges, they started using them for MMA

fights with no martial arts experience

at all. Never never stepped on the mat,

never put in a mouthpiece, never got

punched in the face.

That's crazy. That's crazy. They don't

know how it works. And it's they're

judging at a professional world

championship level at the highest level.

It's crazy. It's crazy. I think they

should have more judges. Let Let me ask

you something. What do you think was the

the decay of success of the UFC? Like it

was Dana White, it was the matchmakers,

it was the fighters, it was the

promotion. What it was? I think the big

thing was the Ultimate Fighter. I think

everybody kind of agrees with that. The

Ultimate Fighter reality show. What what

made the UFC huge was that first season

of the reality show because this was

2005. So reality shows were really

popular back then. this is, you know,

Survivor and Fear Factor and there's all

these reality shows and Big Brother and

so they had this reality show that

people are watching with fighters and

then they have the finale and in the

finale Forest Griffin fights Stephan

Bonner and it's such a crazy fight that

people are just to telling their friends

the the the ratings were going up as the

fight went on and you know the Fertittas

the people that owned the UFC before

this uh current company they were in the

hole $40

million and they just kept losing money

and they said, "Listen, this is the last

they were going to sell the UFC at one

point in time." And then they got to

this point where they're like, "Look,

let's just try this one more thing.

Let's just try this one more thing." And

they they did this this reality show and

the reality show worked. And then 2005

and then they had Chuck Liddell. And

Chuck Liddell was the perfect poster boy

for this new cage fighting thing. This

[ __ ] maniac with a mohawk and a

tattoo on his head and he's just

crushing everybody, you know? He was a

perfect guy because the fights were so

exciting and he had this insane style.

This insane almost like Michael Chandler

style but better. Entertaining style.

Very very entertaining. Just warrior. He

was a good boxer. Good striker. Fast

hands. Yeah. Fast hands. Vicious

knockout power. And he was a wrestler,

but he didn't wrestle anybody. He was a

heavyweight. Light heavyweight. Yeah.

Big guy. Yeah. He was light heavyweight.

Big guy. KO's people with one punch and

you know it was perfect for the sport

because like he was so exciting and he

looked the part. He was like a maniac

and after we'd win he'd go and run

around the cage. It was so exciting. So

exciting. He was the poster boy. He was

the guy. He was the guy that put the

sport on the map because people would

watch him and they go gez. Yeah. That

time timeline of MMA was so fun with

Rampage Jackson also. Oh yeah. And then

when Rampage KO'ed him, you know, he

became the man and you know, and then

Jon Jones comes along and you know, it's

like the sport. That's what's crazy

about John, right? Jon's been dominant

now for like what 15 16 years. Yeah.

That's nuts, man. That's why I I say

he's the best. He's the goat. He's the

goat. He's the goat. I don't know how

how they don't put him as the number one

poundfor-pound. He's the number one

pound for pound. You know, it's just

because he doesn't fight as often as

Islam. You know, Islam has defended his

title more recently, more often against

top flight competition, whereas John is,

you know, John takes a year off, does a

year off here, a year off there. But

when you look at the overall record, the

overall career, he's the greatest of all

time. But when I when I talk about like

just technique, you got to listen, you

got to think about Mighty Mouse, too,

man. Mighty Mouse in his prime was a bad

[ __ ] man. He would do [ __ ] to

guys like s when he suplexed Ray Borg

and caught him with an armbar in the

middle of the air and finished him. You

don't think so? I see your face. I see

your face. No, no, no. It's not like But

I don't

know. I never was a big fan of him. No.

No. Never.

I think when you call yourself a Mickey

Mouse, mighty Mighty Mouse Mighty

Mouse. So, I always thought that he was

a Mickey Mouse. I'm like, "Bro, how the

[ __ ] you calling yourself a Mickey

Mouse?" No, he was a good fighter. He

was a good fighter. He was a very

technical fighter. He dominated the

whole division. How many times he

defended his belt? Like, many times. 14

times. Many times. He [ __ ] a lot of

people up. But then there's an issue

where the quality of the competition in

the 125 pound division back then was not

at the level that it is now. Like

Pantosia, he's a bad [ __ ] I

would have loved to see Aleandre

Pantosia versus Mighty Mouse in their

prime. Pantosia is a [ __ ] animal,

man. That guy's a [ __ ] animal.

There's a guy coming up in

125. He fought in the last pay-per-view

in London. His last name is Kavana in

125. He's going to be a problem in that

division. He's very skillful fighter.

Well, I think like all weight classes,

um, now you have the best fighters of

all time because we see guys from the

Dana White Contender Series now that are

coming along that that enter into the

UFC for their first fight. And you see

these guys like, Jesus Christ, this guy

looks like he has 15 pro fights in the

UFC. They look elite. You know, that

that's a cool program. Also, a Dana

White Contender Series. That's something

cool because they have some story behind

them before they get to the UFC. Mhm.

And that's cool. And actually they make

a good matchmaker matchmaking also to

for that fight. I I like to see

sometimes Dana White contenders series

within some fight nights. Yeah. You get

to see guy Well, that's where we found

Sugar Shawn Omali. you get to see guys

uh I prefer that to the Ultimate Fighter

because I don't want to watch all the in

the house [ __ ] and all the games

that they play. I don't care about all

that. I don't care. I just want to see

him fight. Not anymore. But before it

was very entertaining in the beginning.

In the early days, but the I mean now

they're on like season 2000. Like who

[ __ ] there's been so many seasons

like I can't even keep track. I forget

who won you know there's so many

seasons. But the my point is that the

caliber of new guys when they're just

entering the like Mauricio Rufi, perfect

example. Yeah. You see this guy first

fight in the UFC lightweight, right?

Yeah. He's [ __ ]

huge. You see this guy first fight in

the UFC, you're like, whoa, this guy is

elite already. You know, same thing with

Jean Silva. Elite already. Like these

guys, they're entering into the sport at

a very Carlos Pates, same thing. like

right away like you're seeing like a

very high level right away and uh I just

think that because there's so many guys

like you to watch there's so many guys

like you know Hamzad and all these

people you get to see elite

talent. So these young fighters that are

coming up they have a higher level they

yeah a higher level to aspire to. That's

true. Now like the the sport is growing

that the talents are better than before.

Yeah. Because the the sport has

developed so much that right now you

have so much experience. You can learn

so much about the game. Like even in

YouTube, you go on YouTube, you can

learn everything by yourself. I think in

the future guys like you will be

everywhere. There will be only guys like

you at world championship level. I don't

think there'll be any specialists

anymore. I think there'll be guys who

are elite everywhere. everywhere. This

is what what I was saying like all the

time. Now it's time for the new

generation. What's the new generation?

That if you want to want to be the best,

you have to be the best in everywhere

the the fight the fight takes the place

in the ground and the wrestling and the

striking. You have to be good everywhere

because that's how how the sport is de

developing right now. Because before

before you were good only uh in

wrestling you would take people down and

no problem you you you could become a

world champion but right now so tough so

tough the competition all the time is

higher and higher and higher and there's

more knowledge in the in the sport.

Yeah, there really is. It's um it's very

inspiring and it's very interesting

because there's no other sport where you

could go back and look at it from

1993 to 2025 and it's almost like a

completely different sport. The the

athletes are so much better than they

were. I mean, even from like 2000, go

back to 2000 and watch the sport and

then watch it today. At least in the

UFC,

it changed a lot. A lot everything. Even

the production. Oh, yeah. Everything.

everything changed everything. I mean

it's uh it's so it's so interesting

because it's the one sport also that

translates it translates to all

languages like everybody understands it

but UK is so special that because you

saw the sport growing since since

nothing and you saw so many great fights

in front of you. Yeah I'm very lucky

man. Yeah that's I feel very fortunate.

What about what about you? Like do you

have a plan where you want to retire or

you are just enjoying and you love what

you're doing? Because I I I think that

it's a I don't know. You are enjoying a

lot. Yeah. I just enjoy it. I don't

think about retiring. No. No. If Dana

White quits, I might quit. But that's

it. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually in my

contract. No. Yeah. If he leaves, I

leave. Yeah. So, in my contract, if he

leaves, I don't have to stay.

Why that? Something personal. I wouldn't

be doing it if it wasn't for him. Yeah.

Yeah. He's my friend. He talked me into

doing it. I mean, I started working for

the UFC before him. I started working

for the UFC in 1997. Uh when it was

nothing that nobody was watching. It was

we did it at a a small like a high

school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama.

You had to take a propeller plane to get

there.

Like [ __ ] scary ass planes. And u

that was the first time Vtor fought.

Okay. I was actually training at the

same gym as Vtor when Vtor made his

debut. Vtor was 19 years old and uh we

were at Carlson Gracie. Start very

young. Yeah. Yeah. We were at Carlson

Gracy's gym in Hollywood. Hollywood,

California. That's where I was training.

I just dumb luck. I was a white belt. I

just started. So you how old you were

when you started like training or you

had some relationship with the sport? Uh

well jiu-jitsu. Well martial arts I

started when I was 15. Well, I started

when I was 14, but really seriously when

I was 15, and then I competed in

Taekwondo from 15 to 21, and then I

kickboxed until I was 22. And then I was

doing comedy at the same time. And then

I realized I I was half in, half.

Something crazy about you is when I hear

you explaining some positions, I'm like,

this guy has to know how to fight, how

to do it because the way he is explain

it, I couldn't be able to to explain it.

And I'm a world champion. I know the

game, but you explain it like way better

than anyone else. I I think that you put

10 world champions together, you still

explain it much better than all of us.

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.

Well, I learned how to explain it

because I learned how to teach people

that didn't know what was happening once

it went to the ground. Right. Cuz in the

beginning, nobody understood the ground

game. Exactly. You know, and I'm a black

belt in jiu-jitsu, so when it goes to

the ground, I I can explain what's

happening. I'm very specific.

Well, you have to be specific cuz some

people don't know. Like sometimes I'll

be watching with my wife at home. Like

we watching fights that I'm not calling

and she's like, "What's going on?" And

I'd be like, "His right arm is in

trouble right now." Like, see what see

where his elbow is now? If he can get

his elbow past this point, he's [ __ ]

I'm like, "Okay, now he's fucked." And

then I would I would I would explain it

and I I would say, "Now what he's going

to do, he's going to take his right leg.

He's going to wrap it over the top. Oh,

he's got it. Oh, he's got it." Okay.

He's going to cinch the left leg over

the top. That's it. That's it. He's

[ __ ] You're the best. Yeah. That's

it's just I it's you can't passion.

Yeah. Either you love it or you don't

love it. And if you don't love it, you

can't pretend it won't work. No one's

going to believe you. Like if you're

just a regular sports guy, say like you

call hockey and they hire you. You're

going to learn about MMA and you're

going to call MMA.

Come on. Come on. Yeah. There's no

You're not going to be able to do it

right. Of course, because you got to do

it like you like if I was calling

hockey, I'm like, "Yay, this [ __ ]

puck went in the net. Woo. I don't give

a [ __ ] I don't give a [ __ ] if the puck

goes in the net. It doesn't mean

anything to me. But when someone gets

your [ __ ] neck [ __ ] [ __ ] and you

see the guys going to tap he's tapping.

That that to me is life. That's

everything. That is like it's not just

winning. You're not just winning. You're

you killed that guy. We can see that. I

promise you. We can see your passion

every time. Like even right now I'm

here. I feel your passion. It's not like

I see it. I feel your your passion like

you passionate about what you're doing.

And that's something that I I admire

people like you. Well, I wouldn't do it

if I didn't feel that way. I don't have

to do it. I don't do it for money. I

just do it I mean, this is the only

person I work for is the UFC. Everything

else I do for myself. Everything I work

for myself. Yeah. I'm self-employed

except for the UFC. But I've been

working for them for 20

[ __ ] three years. Yeah. 23 years. 23

years. Yeah. And then before that, I did

it two years before that. So, it's 25

years total. And And when was the the

moment Maybe I'm going like too deep,

but I I wanted to ask you this like when

was the moment when you feel like I'm

succeed in life? I feel that I'm I'm

having success. And what's for you

actually success? Like how do you

describe it? Um well, I guess the moment

was when I didn't worry about success

anymore. I don't think about success. I

think about what do I enjoy doing and am

I doing it the best that I can do it?

That's what I think about. I don't

think, oh, I'm going to make more money.

Oh, I'm gonna do this and now I want to

do I want this goal and that goal. I'm

a process oriented person. I think about

the process of what I'm doing and then

the results come. So, I think like what

am I doing? Am I doing it the best that

I can do it? And if I'm not, I better I

better either quit if I don't want to do

it anymore. If I like that's why I

stopped fighting. I was there was no

money in fighting when I was fighting.

There was no money. There was no UFC.

And I was just getting brain damage for

no reason. And it was really I was I was

sparring and having [ __ ] headaches

every night. I was like, "What am I

doing with my life?" And then I would

also meet guys in the gym that were

punch drunk. And they those guys scared

the [ __ ] out of me cuz back then

everybody was stupid, too. And like in,

you know, this is 1989. Everybody was

stupid. They just beat the [ __ ] out of

each other. They didn't There was no

like sparring, you know, like technical

sparring. It was just wars. It was just

fights. Always fights. And there was no

future. And I It's still like that in in

some gyms. Yeah. A lot of gyms. A lot of

gyms. You know, some gyms are

intelligent, but there's a lot of gyms

that are stupid. I I I don't used to

spar at all. Really? Yeah. I don't spar.

Only in training camps. But I see you

spar in training camps. So, it's only in

training camps. Only in training camps.

So, when you're not in camp, what do you

do? I do like as I told you, spankings

maybe and boxing. But before I used to

go like more crazy than now before

because before I had like more ego. I

had I I wanted to pro myself like I can

knock you out. I can submit you. I can

do this and I but once like you you you

winning

fights, you're growing as a person,

you're like I don't need to prove

anything here in in in the gym. I know

what I'm able to do and the

competition is the day when I have to

fight the fight. That's the day when I'm

when I'm get paid and and that's it. I'm

not gonna going to dam damage anyone no

more because

sometimes you knock people out and then

you go back home and you feel bad. You

you're like I could not doing it right.

And he's suffering right now. I sent so

much people to the hospital. so much

people to the hospital like I'm sure

I've seen a few broken eyes

opened so much damage that right now I'm

like no no no sometimes people comes to

me like let's spar I'm like

I recommend you to know

I recommend you to not

yeah that's good advice yeah it's

interesting right it's like the your ego

can help you because your ego is what

makes You want to be great, but at a

certain point in time, you got to put a

leash on it. Yeah. You got to say, "Not

not right now, [ __ ] When I let

you go, when I say sickum, then I'm

going to let you off that leash, but not

right now." And like that's Marcelo

Garcia always used to say that about

jiu-jitsu that you have to open up your

game in the gym and don't be afraid

about being tapped. He goes, you got to

be open. You got to take chances in the

gym and learn and put yourself in bad

positions on purpose and and you might

lose training sessions, but that's not

what's important. What's important is

growing. I see a lot of guys struggling

with that. Like they don't want to lose

and train and I'm like, well, a lot of

guys never develop a guard because they

never want to be on their back. There's

a lot of guys like that. They have no

[ __ ] guard. Like, which is crazy.

It's crazy. There's black belts out

there that you get them on their back,

they look like a turtle because they

don't want to lose. Exactly. They don't

They don't know how to have to lose.

Like, if you top out, no problem. You

get better. Like, yes. H how I don't put

myself in this position. But that's the

fascinating dance of the mind that

allows someone to become a champion

versus someone to become just a good

fighter. Like whether you can figure

that out like when to put your ego on a

leash and when to be able to look at

yourself objectively like what you're

doing with separating all of your

disciplines. I think is very important.

I think that's a a very interesting way

that you put it because I think it's a

very intelligent way to approach it.

Like get very good at your boxing, get

very good at your Muay Thai, get very

good at your jiu-jitsu, but do it

different. Do it separately. I like

every week, every Sunday, I sit down and

I do my schedule by myself. Like I'm I'm

on Monday, I'm going to do boxing at the

from this hour to this, then I'm going

to do afternoon. And how do you decide

what you're going to do? depends of how

I feel what I want to what I want to do.

What do you want to work on what I and

and what I want to work on and where I

feel like I have to develop something.

What I want to do

what's what do I feel in reality? It's

not like all the time um I'm going to do

this because I have to do it. No, I

don't have to do anything. I choose to

do it because I enjoy it. Every time I

go to training, I enjoy it. I don't do

it because I feel forced. Sometimes in

training camp, yes, I feel forced

because I feel tired. I don't have food

in my body. I don't have any energy and

I have to do it because I'm forced. But

outside the training camp, I enjoy it.

Even if I retire tomorrow, I would keep

training like that because that's

something that I enjoy. And you said

something very interesting before that

like right now

I'm in in in the moment of my life where

everything I do, I do it because I enjoy

it. I don't do anything be to make

anyone's h anyone happy. Uh I don't live

a life dreaming to have another one. I

just enjoy the moment I'm living right

now. That's so important. That is so

important. It's so important to be

satisfied with your life. So important

to just

just live in the moment. It's so hard

for people to do. It's so hard for

people to do especially if you [ __ ]

off too many times. you just like made

too many mistakes and slacked off and

lazy and this is the best moment we have

right now. Right now. This is it. The

best moment. This is who we are. Yeah,

it is. It is. No one knows what's going

to happen tomorrow. So, and you know

what's really important? hearing a guy

like you say this, hearing a guy like

you say this to to young people out

there that are listening, they're just

not sure like how to approach life

because the way you think about life and

the way you decide to approach life can

change your the whole direction of your

future. 100% 100%. And so a young guy is

probably listening guaranteed there are

people not just one many young people

are listening to you talk right now. I'm

sure there many people come to you like

Joe tell me the secret. Yeah, there are

no secret. There's no bottom for the

elevator. Exactly. Everything in life

you get step by step. The slowest the

fastest way to get where you want to be.

I was talking to David Gogggins about

that. You know who David Gogggins is?

Yeah, of course. [ __ ] maniac. David

Gogggins said there's no finish line.

He's like it never ends. Like it never

ends. Never ends. You never make it. You

ever feel like you make it? I'm like you

never make it. There's no making it.

It's [ __ ] One day you you don't

think about it anymore and you just

every day you're just trying to get

better. Of course. And if you don't feel

like that, it's not fun. If you're not

really trying to do something difficult

and aspire to greatness and just trying

to do your best all the time, you don't

have satisfaction in your life 100%.

Everything. Some people thinks that like

you accomplish something and that's

going to make you happy. That's a

[ __ ] Well, you know, I think also

there's the poison of social media

because social media poisons people to

think that one day I'm going to make it.

I'm going to be like Conor McGregor

driving my yacht around. Like those

videos are so bad for you. Those videos

of people like, "Look at me. Look at my

watch. Look at my diamonds. Look at

this. Look at my house. Look at this.

Look at these girls. Don't you wish you

were me?" Everyone is showing you the

best part of their life. No one is going

to show you how they are struggling, the

problems they are facing in the in the

daily basis. I mean like no one is going

to show you that. No one's going to show

you, look, I have a pimple here in my

face. No, I'm going to use a filter to

Yeah. hide that. Yeah. It's It's not

good. It's not good for young people,

that's for sure. Because they aspire to

all the wrong things. You ask young

people today what do they want? Most of

them just want to be famous.

They want to be famous and they think

that money makes them rich and you

skills make you rich, not the money. If

you don't have the skills and you don't

have the mindset, you're going to keep

poor all the time. Not only that, you're

not going to have the satisfaction of

knowing you got really good at

something. There's something about

getting really good at something that

gives you a deep satisfaction that's not

available anywhere else. If you just win

the lottery, those are the most

depressed people in the world. They all

go broke. They win the lottery and then

everybody wants money from them and then

they feel empty and hollow and they

don't know what to do with themselves

and now they don't have any goals

because they have a hundred million

dollars in the bank. They don't know

what the [ __ ] to do. Yeah. But in

reality they don't have any ability.

They don't have nothing to enjoy with

you. I say that success comes from not

worrying about money. Success doesn't

come from making a lot of money. Success

comes from now I don't have to think

about that. Money is not a thing. Now I

think about what am I doing? What am I

doing? I want to be the best parent I

can be. I want to be the best friend

that I can be. I want to be everything I

do. I want to do it to the best of my

abilities. Yeah. Becoming the best

person you could be. Yeah. The best

person you can be. When I was a kid, my

martial arts instructor told me this

that I'll never forget and I say it all

the time. Martial arts are a vehicle for

developing your human potential. Through

that struggle, through that difficult

thing, you will learn how to be better

at everything.

100%. 100%. 100% that's that's what I

think life is about and that's why

martial arts are so exciting to me. You

know, people think, "Oh, you like

violence. You like this." Like, that's

not it. Like, that's why I don't like

slap fighting. I think it's stupid. You

stand in front of each other, smack each

other in the head. I want to see a

guy enter into a cage fully prepared

with skills against another guy fully

prepared with skills. I always describe

martial arts, mixed martial arts in

particular, as highlevel problemolving

with dire physical consequences. That's

what it is. It's problem solving with

dire physical consequences. That's so

cool. Yeah, that's what it is. People

most of time, they didn't understand

what's behind a fighting game. It's not

like only violence. You have to prepare

yourself. You have to be smart. You have

to be you have to work smart smarter

than the the other guy you you are going

to face. There's so much factors that

it's going to play out that that day.

It's so much sacrifices that someone has

to make before getting in in inside that

octagon. It's not only

fighting. It's more than that. I don't

know. I don't it's

I love that. I don't know. Most of the

people before they used to see fighting

as something very violent in in Spain.

They hate it. Right now it's becoming

bigger and bigger and bigger and they're

starting to love that. And I and I saw

that since the day I started because I

used to say to the people like 10 years

ago in Spain, what you doing? I'm

fighting. Ah, don't do

that. Start learning something. Start

studying. I'm like, I'm

starting. Everyone choose a a career in

his life. Someone wants to be a doctor,

someone wants to be a constructor,

someone wants to be this or that. I want

to be a fighter. Yeah. And I have to

learn to be a fighter also. But by your

example, by being a true champion and by

living the way you live and by

performing the way you perform, you will

change people's opinions and they will

see it and they will say, "Oh, this is

different. This is not what I thought it

was. This is something special. I hope

so. For sure, brother. For sure. It's in

the cards. Well, listen, my friend.

Thank you very much for being here. I

appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan

and I can't wait to see you inside the

Octagon again. And uh all the best, Joe.

Thank you very much, bro. Has been a big

pleasure for me to be with you. Thanks

very much. All right. Bye, everybody.

Bye.

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YouTube Transcript:JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

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JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria