YouTube Transcript:
JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe
Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe
Rogan podcast by night. All
day. Well, my man, what's happening?
Pleasure. No, please. My pleasure. Thank
you for having me here. Pleasure. My
honor. I'm uh I'm very excited about
this new thing you're doing. I'm very
excited about your journey into the
lightweight division.
Something that I feel very excited also
about that. What are you walking around
at? Like what do you walk around at when
you were fighting at 45? I'm I'm going
to tell you in kilos. Okay. I walk
around 80 82.
What is that Jamie? Like 16 170 75 175
180 180 most. Okay. So you were losing
quite a bit of weight. 35 lbs. 25 30
lbs. Like yeah, that's a lot hard. That
was the hardest part of my training of
the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying
at all the last couple of fights that
that I had because it's
like I had to become more professional
on the way cut than in a fight game, you
know, and it was taking a lot of time
and energy from me and I'm like my dream
is to to become a world champion. I want
to end up this this chapter that I have
that I started in 145 and now it's time
to to really enjoy it and I'm very
excited about that. I already have one
fight in 155. J Herbert. Jai Herbert.
Yeah. I really wish the UFC would
eliminate weight cutting. I really wish
there was a way. Why does to do that? I
don't. It's sanctioned cheating that
everybody has to do. It's like you're,
you know, I mean, if you're saying
you're 180 pounds, you're not really
145, right? So, it's crazy that you're
the 145 pound champion, but you're 180
pound man. It's kind of nuts. Yeah. But
but at the same time if you go to the
next weight class you are playing with a
disadvantage because the guy in the next
division is cutting a lot of weight.
Mhm. So if you don't do that at the end
of the day you walk inside the octagon
and you are the smaller guy. Yeah. Like
Islam Islam Akachev is huge. I mean that
guy how he makes 155 is I don't
understand it. Every time I stand next
to him I'm like how are you 155? How
much do you think he he walks around?
He's got to be 190ish in the 190 range.
He's got to be. That's what he looks
like to me. I never saw home in a
person. Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and
big. I mean, he's he's not a small He's
not 155B man. It's just so silly. The
whole thing is just it's it's an it's an
old thing that we kept for no reason.
And I feel like they should blow all the
weight classes. I've talked to Dana
about this. I actually talked to Ari
Emanuel about this when they first
bought the UFC. I said, "The first thing
you should do is get rid of this. get
rid of the weight cutting and just add a
bunch of weight classes, you know,
because some of the weight class gaps,
like the gap between 70 and 85 and then
85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps
are too big. 20 pounds nuts. I would do
something with the with the drug test.
Like if I go to your home to to to make
the drug test, I put you in in in the
scale. If you walk around like 8% or 10%
over your weight, I would obligate you
to go in the in the in the next weight
class. Just to give you an example, for
example, if you're fighting a 100
kilograms, I'm gonna say in kilograms,
and I go to your house, I do the the
drug test, I put you in the scale, and
you weigh this 110 kilograms, I would
force you to go to the next weight
class. Yeah, I think that's realistic.
That makes sense. And I think that they
should have more weight classes cuz the
weight class gaps are just too large.
Oh, maybe that's an option also. Yeah, I
mean at the lower weight classes it's 10
lbs which seems reasonable but really at
the lower weight classes, you know, when
you look at like 125 and 135, it could
easily be 5 lbs. 5 lbs is reasonable,
but Dana doesn't want like 12 weight
classes or 12 15 20 weight classes like
boxing has. He wants it to be like the
UFC has now, but it's not enough. I
don't really know the real reason behind
that, but I would love to talk to Dana
and ask him this these questions also
because it's kind of dangerous also for
the guys and many times you put on a
show for the people and you don't really
know if they going to make the weight
right. Exactly. And they're going to be
compromised. I mean, there's a lot of
guys who fight just deeply dehydrated
from the day before and even though
they've rehydrated themselves, their
brain's not rehydrated yet. Exactly.
It's not smart and it it's not it's also
not necessary. Like why would you It
would make for better fights. Why would
you want someone to be physically
compromised 24 hours before they're
fighting? It doesn't make any sense at
all. But at the same time, the way cut
takes something out from you. That's
crazy. It's like putting a dog inside
the room for 20 days without any food
and you open the door and you put him in
a different room with full of food. It's
like the same thing, you know, when I'm
cutting the weight, I'm like I'm a
different person. I I feel that I'm like
my mind goes different. My thought
process is different. Everything is so
different at at that moment. I'm not so
kind when I'm cutting weight. Yeah. More
focused, dialed in. Exactly. Dominic
Cruz says it's a good thing. He says uh
he likes weight cutting because it gets
you dialed in. He says it gets you
completely dialed in for a fight. How
much he cuts? I don't think he cuts that
much 35. That's why he likes it.
Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it, you
know, cuz when he was fighting at 85, he
was weighing in at 85 and then fighting
in the sk in the cage at 225 226, which
is crazy. I don't know how how that guy
was making 185. That's crazy because
he's huge and he's so tall. Well, how
about Drius Duplo? How the [ __ ] is he
185? That guy's huge. Yeah, that's huge.
Also, there's a lot of these guys like,
but it's it's very deceptive because the
general public thinks that's a 185 pound
man, but he's not. Drius is probably
when he gets into the cage, he's well
into the 220s. He's a big guy. I don't
know in what way he he walks around, but
he's huge guy also. And comes when he
was fighting in 170. Yeah, he was big
also. He was almost killing himself
making the weight was Anthony Rumble
Johnson. Do you remember Anthony? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Anthony, I ran into him once
in between fights. And I said, "How much
do you weigh?" He said, "230." Wow. He
was fighting 170. He He switched How
many weight classes? He started from
170. He went to like light like heavy
weight and then he end up fighting in in
the heavyweight division, right? He went
to middleweight and didn't make weight.
He missed weight and lost that fight and
then he fought heavyweight outside the
UFC and then came back and fought light
heavyweight in the UFC. You know,
something similar happened to me also. I
started fighting in the bantamweight
division. Really? Yeah. Before the UFC
like in cage warriors when I was
fighting in the cage warriors I actually
missed the weight also when I was was
fighting for the belt. I was I I was
fighting at that time in the
banterweight division. Then I I kept
fighting in in the featherweight and now
I'm in the lightweight. I hope I I don't
end up fighting in the welterweight.
How old were you when you first started
fighting
in MMA? You asking? Or or in Well, all
when did you first start martial arts
with four years old? My my dad put me
with my brother in in
judo. Then we went to Georgia. We kept
practicing with the Gra the Garmon
wrestling and then we moved to Spain
when I was 15 years old and completely
by chance we find the gym and we started
training the the MMA, the mixed martial
arts. Totally by chance. Totally by
chance. Wow. So, were you a mixed
martial arts fan at all? I didn't know
anything about the mixed martial arts. I
didn't know anything anything about the
BJJ, the ground game, any [ __ ] thing.
Wow. So we went to to Spain and we
wanted to keep with the same discipline
as we we were doing in Georgia with the
Groman wrestling but they don't have the
culture of of that sport. So we were a
little bit sad you know because we
wanted that sport. My brother was really
really good on that. So my mom was uh
working and he saw a man with the
cauliflower ears. He went to she went to
to him and she asked him like what you
doing because my kids want to to do
wrestling. Do you train in in some gym
or or something and he said no I'm doing
the BJJ bring your kids and I'm going to
I'm going to show you the gym. She came
to home and my dad and and my mom and
they started to convince us like there's
a gym they are practicing like
jujitsu MMA all the sports and um I was
like but what the [ __ ] is this? I don't
know what's this. And my dad start
started to show me the videos of the
Gracies. He he he told me like this one
of the best sports in the world right
now. You are going to guys love it this
and that. And at that day, we went to
the gym and I fell in love since the
first second. Well, it's actually a
great base to start out from. Starting
with judo and then greor roaming
wrestling and then going into jiu-jitsu.
It's really great because you already
have an established grappling base. It's
great. Of course, my recommendation for
everyone is if you want to have a career
in in in MMA, you should start with
wrestling because for me personally,
because this is my personal experience
that it's much easier to learn in the
future boxing than start with boxing and
learn the wrestling. Really? For me,
yes, I think so. And I saw that in in in
many people. But how old were you when
you first started boxing?
17 years old. That's fairly old. Like
when you think about how high level your
striking is. Of course it is. Yeah. But
when I started I was like, okay, I'm
very good with the wrestling. I can take
people down. I can control them. I have
a great ground game. But what if I go to
the highest competition and I I find
some some adversities. I have to be able
to fight in the in in in the striking
also. So I have to de develop my game in
the striking and I start from from from
that and I start with my brother. We
were like the the first people to go
inside the gym and the last ones to live
it. So we were studying every day all
day like so obsessed. We were watching
like all the videos of Julio Chavez of
Canelo all that practicing all the
techniques and then
putting in interaction the sparrings and
all that and I was like finding my
style. what that that I really like to
do. Well, it's interesting because Spain
doesn't have a long history of mixed
martial arts. Mhm. So, like you are the
first champion from Spain in the UFC.
So, it's it's very interesting that you
you got in there as a young man and
there wasn't really like a big
established community yet. So, I was the
first guy to to get into the top 15, the
top 10, the top five, and then the the
world champion. We we had a guy in in
Spain who fought in in in the UFC. I
don't know if you remember him. Enrique
Wasabi. Okay. He did the Ultimate
Fighter. Then we have another guy also
Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job
also. But before that, we didn't have
anyone in the UFC. So when you first
started training, were there amateur
competitions in Spain? Yeah, there was
amateur MMA and I made three fights in
amateur and then I started with a
professional game. I did four fights in
Spain and at some point it was so
difficult to find a fight for me that I
had to start to travel in the European
territory to to to get a fight. Yeah.
And everything started from that. But
it's fascinating because a lot of world
champions generally well there's a good
percentage of them come from an
established gym that already has elite
highle competition but it seems like
that's not the case with your gym. No it
wasn't.
So I don't know I don't know what was
the reason to be honest to to came this
far. I don't know. Well that's always
the question with champions like are
champions born or are they bred? Because
there's there's gyms that develop like
Marvin Haggler came out of the
Petronelli brothers gym in Brockton,
Massachusetts. They're not known for
world championship fighters, but Marvin
Haggler is one of the greatest of all
time. It's like there was something
inside of him that made him excel. The
same thing. There was something inside
me
that made me the person who I am today.
Did you know when you first started
training, when you first started doing
MMA, that you were going to fight
professionally? Yeah, since the first
day. So my mindset always was the the
same exactly the same as I have right
now. I'm like if someone did it, I also
can do it and if no one did it, I can be
the first one to do it.
This is the mindset I I I always had and
it's
like yeah that I think that the champion
are they are not born they are made also
because you can burn in a extraordinary
uh situation but you can end
up so bad you know and the opposite also
you can burn in a I don't know crazy
situation and end up in a paradise.
Yeah, it's it's such an interesting
thing because they all champions are not
the same type of person either. You
know, you got guys like Sugar Sean Ali
who's silly and smokes weed and has
crazy hair. And then you got guys like
Alex Pereira, very stoic, you know, very
serious. It's everyone's different. He's
very serious. I met him in in in in
Sydney. I went with my bride because he
made his UFC debut and yeah, he was kind
of quiet like Yeah, he's intense. Yeah,
he's so serious. Yeah, he's intense. I
remember watching him fight for the
first time in glory in kickboxing and I
was like, Jesus Christ, I just watched
the way he kos people. I was like, this
guy is different. Huge, great. Crazy
power. His power is just ridiculous. I
mean, like hit guys with Who do you love
watching fight? I love watching you
fight. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a Giant fan. Um I
like all styles, man. I'm fascinated by
the the game in all different styles. I
mean, I I like watching all the
champions. I mean, I love watching Morab
fight. Wow. He's a [ __ ] animal. He's
the machine. I love him. He's an animal.
I mean, I just don't understand that
cardio. His cardio is [ __ ] crazy.
It's like superhuman cardio. And I'm
going to tell you something about Morab
that surprised me that maybe you see him
in the mat and he's not the most special
guy, the most skillful guy in the room,
but I don't know what happens to him
when he gets inside that
octagon. Wow. That man is a [ __ ]
machine. He's a [ __ ] machine. I'm I'm
a right now. You ask me who I love to to
watch fight. That's my rap. I would pay
take my money when he's fighting in the
pay-per-view right now at this. I'm
like, bro, take my money. I love Umar,
too. Umar, you know, that fight was
incredible. That was one of the best
fights I've ever seen because they're so
skillful, so high level. And, you know,
to see him make Umar start to wilt, to
see Umar like you see the wobble when
guys start getting fatigued. You see
this like a little bit of like loose
movement in the way, you know, you see
that. Morab had none. Zero. just
shooting like like he was in the first
round in the fifth round because this is
what I exactly think that happens to
Omar because you see uh Morav from
outside like you are sitting and you you
are seeing him training or fighting and
you're like he's not going to be able to
take me down he's not going to be able
to do that to me and then you get inside
the doctor with him and everything
changes. Yeah. It's like you have a a
machine in front of you who has like
non-stop. Daniel Cormier went to visit
him right after he won the title. Dam
Daniel Cormier went to his house on
Sunday. Yeah. Morab wasn't home. He was
out running. Yeah. He won the title on
Saturday. Daniel went to his house on
Sunday. Morab's out running. Wow. He's
crazy. He He came He came to Spain also
to help me once when I had the training
come. I was supposed to fight with
Moser. He came to to to help me. Crazy.
We the same exact exact team. We we were
like finishing the training. He was
going for a run. He was going like
actually to to his house running. Yeah.
There's no shortcuts. No, there's no
shortcuts. No shortcuts. No shortcuts.
But, you know, like to answer your
question, I'm you know, I'm fascinated
by all the different styles. You know, I
I like watching everybody fight. You
know, I love Vulcanowski. You know, I
love watching him fight this past
weekend. And he's so great. He I was so
happy for him this this Saturday because
he really deserve deserve it to get the
that title back. Does it bother you to
see someone win your title? No, not
that. You good? I'm good. Like I'm good.
I'm good. Happy for him. You established
you won. You defended. I won. I
defended. Right now I have completely
different challenge in front of me. I
wish him nothing but the best. And to
everyone like I wish the best wins all
the time. That's great. Yeah. I don't
care. What about Patty Pimpblelet
though?
He He did a great job. He did a great
job. He did what he had to do. He did.
But for me, it's like I'm I'm going to
be completely honest with you. For me,
Chandler, he never was
a extraordinary fighter. He was like
average level of fighter
like who did he beat like in the UFC?
Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson. Oh, Dan
Hooker. Yeah,
Dan Hooker is a good fighter. He just he
caught well Dan Hooker had that war with
Dustin Porier that and Dustin Porier is
a very good fighter. How many losses he
has? He's got a few losses. Yeah, he's a
good fighter. Very entertaining fighter
like for the fans. He's a wild dog.
Yeah, he's a dog. He he he goes inside
that that that octagon and he fights.
But yeah, I think he's on a resurgence.
I think, you know, he had a skid for a
while and now he's rebuilding himself
and he's on a He's smiling. Look at you,
[ __ ]
So, he beat Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson
when he was like almost four years old.
I think honestly we got Michael Chandler
after his prime. Um, if you go watch
Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez and
Bellator, those were [ __ ] crazy
fights. Crazy fights. Yeah, but at the
end of the day, you see wars. It's a
very competitive fight. Yes. You see
almost a bar fight. You see two guys in
the middle of the octagon exchanging
punches, but you don't see technique.
You don't see skills. You see a great
fight because as a fans, it's a very
entertaining to watch fights like that,
but if you really think about it, it's
like you don't see skills in that fight.
You don't see someone trying to take you
down, control you, some great
submissions, great transitions, I don't
know, striking. You you you see a guy
that he's like looking for a
combination. He's looking for his moment
creating a spaces. You don't see like I
don't know. I see what you're saying.
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hp.com/jre. So is it not as tactical or
technical? Exactly. It's just wild dogs.
It's it's just wild dogs. I mean, that's
why Michael Chandler is so popular
because he fights like a wild dog.
Exactly. And that's cool. That's cool.
You need a guys also like like him. But
I would never recommend my friend to
fight like that. Exactly. I never would
recommend to someone watch this guy and
learn something. Right. Right. Right.
Learn. Yeah. It's like he's so
entertaining, but sometimes it's best to
not be as entertaining and just be
better. Exactly. Yeah. and shut people
down. At the same time, you don't have
to be Balal, right? I see what you're
saying. But you Balal I think gets too
much bad rap. Like Balah when he beat up
Shawn Brady, that was very entertaining.
And Shawn Brady is very good. You know,
I think Bal just does what it takes to
win. And when you're in a div and also
like he didn't really have a background
in wrestling at the level that a lot of
these guys did. He had to develop that
over time. Yeah, but you there are two
type of champions for me. Like there are
champions who prepare themselves to win
and there are the other ones who prepare
themselves to dominate. I prepare myself
not to win because I know that I'm going
to win. I I want to win in fashion. I
want to dominate. I want to more people.
I want people to be entertained. I want
people to be like, "Wow, I'm happy that
I spend the money this Saturday night
going watch this guy. That's what I
want." Yeah. Someone was talking about
that recently on Instagram. I don't
remember who uh the the coach was, but
he was talking about levels of athletes
that there's there's people that train
to compete, there's people that train to
win, and then there's people that train
to dominate, to be the greatest of all
time. Exactly. And there's there's a
different mindset. There's a never
satisfied, always improving mindset that
the great champions have all the time. I
want the people to be entertained all
the time. Like when actually I
was I started with the with with the
MMA. I was like recording myself all the
sparrings and after that I was
rewatching my my my sparring. I was like
will I pay my money to watch
this? What do I have to to to change in
my game to be more entertained?
And this is how I was like looking
myself all the time. I was very crit
critical with with myself. And this is
how I develop and develop and develop.
And all the time I go inside the
octagon. I don't go there just to win.
You know what I mean? I want everyone to
be like, "Wow, what he just did how he
did it. He was the greatest of all time
and he made it made him look easy."
Yeah. This is what I want. I want to
change the game. you know the people to
to I want you to say your friend watch
this guy and learn something. Yeah.
Well, mission
accomplished so far, right? So far so
good. And now uh a new journey into the
lightweight division, you know. Um I
don't understand why they won't just
book you and Islam. There's many times
that I wish I was running the UFC. I
would change so many different things.
That would be one of the first things I
would change. I'm like, "Book that
fight. Book that fight right away." You
would do some fights also in Mars. I'm
I'm sure
I would probably go with the starship. I
have I got some wacky ideas. I don't
even think they should fight in a cage.
Yeah. Yeah. I think the cage is an
unnecessary um it's an I think it's an
unnecessary element in fighting like to
push someone against something or to be
able to get up from something. I don't
think it's necessary. I think they
should be in like a basketball court.
like a basketball court that's matted
up, have a big space, have a warning
track where you can't if you go outside
the warning track too many times, you
you could lose points. Okay? And um so
when someone takes you down, you have to
actually get up. I also think at the end
of a round, like say if you got a guy
mounted at the end of the round, you
start the next round mounted on him. Of
course. Yeah. I don't think because why
would you give him the advantage of
getting up when he never got up? He
never got up. Never got You have to earn
a get up. You have to stand up by
yourself. I love it. I I never thought
about that, actually. No. No standups
ever. Ever. No stand-ups. Unless someone
commits a foul. Like if someone commits
a foul and you want to stand them up and
take a point away, that's fine. But if
the guy's in the bottom and he commits a
foul, if a guy's on the bottom, he
gouges someone's eyes on purpose. Take a
point away. Put him right back in the
same spot. Wow. Because otherwise, like
say if you're fighting a guy like Alex
Pereira who's never taking anybody down,
he's just going to strike with you,
right? Okay. Why would you let him back
up again and have the advantage of him
standing up again? The beginning of the
round, he starts standing up again. Now
you got to take him down again. But
also, you don't think that it's it's a
part of the show? It is a part of the
show. But I don't give a [ __ ] about
that. Yeah, I'm a I mean, I'm a hardcore
fan. I'm a purist. I think it should be
about fighting, about elite fighting.
And elite fighting is you got to get up.
Like if a wrestler takes you down and he
just does this to you and it's not
entertaining. But if he can do that to
you, that's tough [ __ ] That's what he
did. You would change also the time
range like or you would leave a three
round or five minutes with one minute
rest. The good thing about five minute
rounds, the good thing about fiveminute
rounds is it's sustainable and guys can
fight at a high pace. If you had like
just 15 minutes, one 15 minute round,
guys would be exhausted and the end of
it would be sloppy. it wouldn't be the
same. The pace would be much slower. It
wouldn't be as good. So, I think there's
nothing wrong with rounds, but I think
it's one fight. It's not five fights.
So, why does he stand up at the end of
every round? I think if a guy takes you
down and he's got you mounted with like
trapped in arm and he's punching your
ribs trying to secure an arm triangle,
why would you why does he get to stand
up again? It doesn't make any sense.
True. especially if he's a striker and
you wasted all that energy get him to
the ground and you got so close to
cinching up a submission and then all of
a sudden he's back on his feet again.
You have to stand up and he didn't even
earn it. Start him right back down
there. No cage, no standups. No standups
ever. If everybody booze, tough [ __ ] Go
watch baseball. Go watch Go watch
something else. Would you you wouldn't
like to see at some point the World
Championships in mixed martial arts?
Like for example, let's say the seven
best fighters from the United States in
every weight class against seven biders
from I don't know from China or from
Russia. Yeah, I would love that. The
best flyweight against the best
flyweight from the United States and you
do that and you have seven fights
because you have seven weight divisions
and if you win four weight divisions
that country won. M yeah, that will be
fun. Also, that would be great. That's a
great idea. I love that idea. Yeah, I
think that that idea sounds really good.
And also, there is a bit of an issue,
right, with the UFC being the premier
organization for martial arts. The UFC
is like, if you're not a champion in the
UFC, no one thinks of you as a world
champion. Like, you're a world champion.
World champion. Someone can fight in the
PFL and they could say, "Oh, it's the
PFL world champion." Everybody's like,
"Right, come on. Come on.
fighters, but at the end of the day, you
know that you have all the best
fighters, the best collection of
fighters in the UFC. Yes. But I watch
one FC and I watch some of those [ __ ]
animals that they have over there and
I'm like, Jesus Christ, some of these
guys are good, man. Some of these guys
are good. And you know, they're calling
them one one FC world champions. I'm
like, I'd like to see them. I'd like to
see them because some guys look real
good until they fight elite talent. And
we've seen that before. Like some guys
look like destroyers and then they get
in the UFC against guys who are just a
little bit more technical, a little
smarter and they get pieced up. What
happens is that I think that in one
championship you most of the time you
used to fight with strikers. In the UFC,
you don't know who who you're going to
face next. Maybe he's a wrestler, right?
Maybe you're going to fight Demian Maya
who wants to fight you on the ground.
Maybe you fight Alex Pereira. You don't
[ __ ] know. So you have to be good
everywhere and you have to be prepared
for everything in one championship.
Maybe you are good at striking and you
can be a world champion. Yeah, maybe. I
mean there are some good grapplers over
there, but my point is I really wish
there was no organizations.
I really do. I really wish it was just
all the best fighters competing. I don't
Look, I love the UFC. I've been working
for the UFC forever and my loyalty is to
the UFC. But I wish there was just only
fighting. Yeah. You know, no
organizations just like boxing is in
boxing. But the problem with boxing is
it's very difficult to get these guys
because they all have different
promoters. Exactly. And if they all the
same promoter, they all get [ __ ] when
it comes to negotiation, right? If
they're all the same promoter and the
same managers. You know something about
soccer? No. Yeah, I know a little bit
about it. How they do like the Champions
League? Mhm. they have like for example
let's say the Real Madrid they have a
team that's why I would what I would do
is like I would create a team against
another team for example I have Real
Madrid I've I I sign like the best seven
fighters in the world whoever I want in
different weight classes and you have
for example Barcelona you you sign the
seven best fighters in the world around
the world you train them in one place
you do like all the strategy strategy
and We meet each other. We do a
competition like a Champions League and
we do like the whole year calendar and
the best wins at the end of we do like
the finals and we give them the space to
recover. We we create like a competition
between teams, not that individual
um people, you know what I mean? Yes. So
I would do something like that. That's a
great idea. But the problem is I think
guys guys get injured, guys fall out,
guys get sick. That's why in in soccer
you have guys that in your position you
always have two or three guys that if
you are injured you have another guy
that can can can change you or switch
you you know between the rounds even and
you are in soccer sometimes it happens
some someone gets injured in
in Estadio stadium and they can switch
them. Yeah that makes sense. But I mean
at the end of the day like imagine say
if you get scheduled to fight Islam and
uh Islam gets injured and Arman Sooqian
takes his place or something like that.
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Again, you are like focused on uh
individ individuals. You are not focused
on teams because no one is going to care
who is going to fight in from the
flyweight division. Who is going to be
your representative from the flyweight
division or from the lightweight
division. I'm like, maybe I bring you
Islam that I have it in I have him in in
in my team or also I could have Charles
Olua in the same team or maybe I bring
Charlesa because I think that against
your team, the guy you have in the
lightweight division, Charles does it
better. Right. Right. Right. They do
that with grappling like Quintet. They
do that. They have like grappling teams.
Yeah. I mean that would be interesting.
I just there's there's certain fighters
like I was my main regret in MMA that we
never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC
when he was in his prime. That's true.
If if I could have one thing, one fight
in their prime, Fedor Kane Velasquez.
Oh, that would fight. Oh my god. Great.
In their prime. That would have been
incredible. Incredible. Actually, Kane
was an amazing fighter,
bro. That guy had a gas tank that was
superhuman. So for a heavyweight, it
didn't even make any sense. You would
see guys just fall apart. They would
just wilt. Pure boxing style. Pure
boxing style, great wrestling,
incredible chin, and just indomitable
will. Too tough for his own good, which
is why he wind up like towards the end
of his career, he was just his body had
deteriorated so much. He had so many
back injuries, neck injury, shoulder
injury, knee injury. There was actually
What's going on with him? He's He's in
jail right now. He's not Yeah. He got
sentenced. He got sentenced to 5 years.
And the the judge said this was the
least amount he could sentence him. He
didn't want to sentence him. Well, what
happened to him? Do you know that now?
Yes. So Kane's son was going to daycare
and there was a man who molested him at
daycare. Kane found out about it, chased
the man in his car and shot at him. He
tried to catch him in his car and shot
at him. Kane gets arrested. Kane stayed
in jail. The guy gets arrested and he
got out on bail. I don't know what's
happening with the guy. I don't know if
he's been sentenced yet or what, but
this guy molested his son multiple
times. I don't know how many times, but
he did what every father would have
done. You the the if you're not a
father, you do not understand the
murderous rage you would have if some
man molested your baby. You don't
understand. It's it's you would see read
in a way that no one can describe to you
unless you're a parent. That [ __ ]
anger is I mean if there's ever a plea
for temporary
insanity, that's that's the plea. If
there's ever a person who could
justifiably say, "I was temporarily
insane," it's a father that's chasing
after someone, especially a man who
molests your boy.
Wow. Yeah, everybody understands it.
Everybody understands it. He should have
never gone to jail. He's not a threat to
society. He's not a danger. He shouldn't
be in prison. No. And he already did
three years. He was already in jail for
three years. He has been a great example
for so many upcoming guys like for the
new generation. I don't know why guys
like him have to end up in the jail for
something like that. Exactly. He didn't
robber anyone. He didn't Exactly. I
don't know. Exactly. It's It's horrific.
It's horrific, you know. I mean, I just
don't understand it. It's um I mean, the
judge's hands were tied. He had to make
a sentence and this is the I think the
minimum amount. They were trying to give
him 30 years. Yeah. For attempted murder
cuz he was just shooting at this guy.
And obviously, when you're driving and
shooting, you could miss him and and
kill a bystander. It's very dangerous.
But also, the guy was in a murderous
rage for a good reason. For a good
reason, of course. And if he killed that
guy, the world would be better off.
That's my feeling. That's my feeling.
That's true. That's also true. A guy
like that walking around and molest
children should be dead. That I that's
just my feeling. All this thought of I
mean there's a bunch of people on the
left here in the United States that they
have this crazy way of looking at
pedophiles. They they they call them
minor attracted persons. They want to
make it a protected class and say it's,
you know, it's like someone being
attracted to someone of the opposite sex
or someone being attracted to someone of
the same sex. Like, no, it's not. No,
it's not. You're victimizing children,
the most vulnerable and protected people
that we have. Of course, you can't you
can't even talk to the kids about
something like that. You know what I
mean? Yeah. About like I I heard so many
crazy things about that topic that let's
let's leave it right there. will just
get in
trouble. Yeah. I mean, kill them all.
That's how I feel. Kill them all.
Anybody wants to do that to children,
there's no reason for them to exist.
They This I mean, for Yeah. You're just
going to ruin lives. And not just their
lives, but you're going to ruin all the
people whose lives they ruin cuz they're
all [ __ ] up now. You know, you you you
you kill so much potential from a human
being to do that to a baby. It's just
insane. Wow. It's just [ __ ] insane.
So that's unfortunately the story with
Kane right now. And you know he was out
for a while once they let him out. He
was coaching at AKA and you know he's a
amazing coach and we hope
that they going to they going to think
it again and they're going to give him
the freedom he deserves. Yeah. I mean I
hope Trump pardons him. I mean that's
what I really hope makes something
happen with that. Maybe that's possible.
I mean, that might be the best best
option. Um, but anyway, in his prime,
uh, Kane Velasquez versus Fedor. That's
my my biggest regret. A fight that we
never got to see cuz when Kane when when
Fedor was fighting in Pride, you know,
and this is before the UFC was really
huge, right? Cuz they were huge in Japan
in like 2001, 2002. They were filling
stadiums in Japan. when the UFC was just
sort of emerging in the United States,
it really hadn't hit its peak until
2005. And why do you think that they
never bring him to to the UFC? Well,
they tried. Uh but I got to be careful
how I say this. So Fedor was controlled
by uh some Russian people that were
uh very uh rough men, okay, as it were,
you know, uh gangster type characters.
And uh they had a bunch of negotiations
with the UFC, but there were very
unreasonable demands. Like they wanted
part of the promotion. They wanted to
own a piece of everything. They wanted a
lot cuz they knew that with Fedora, they
had their golden ticket and they wanted
to play it out as much as possible.
Okay. Negotiations were very intense and
uh
very very confrontational. They got bad
where Dana had to up his security. It
got It got pretty Yeah, it got heavy.
Yeah, these are dangerous people. These
were dangerous people. It got Yeah, I
can tell you more off air. Yeah. Wow. I
didn't know that story. I'll tell you
more off air. It got You should talk to
Dana about it. It got crazy. Wow.
They're rough. That's why. Yeah, because
I always thought like why they don't
bring that guy to the UFC because it's
going to be so fun for the for the fans.
They wanted to co-promote. They wanted
to be a part of the promotion. They
wanted more than they deserved. They
didn't just want Fedor to get paid. They
wanted to get paid. They wanted to They
wanted to make a lot of money and they
wanted to get their hooks into the UFC.
Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Russian gangsters.
Yeah. Yeah.
I get it from their perspective how they
rule like everything. Pride was run by
the Yakuza, you know. So, it was
Japanese gangsters and Russian
gangsters. They speak the same language,
you know. It was uh they got along fine.
But then when they came over to the UFC,
the UFC was like, "That's done. Not the
place. Do it over here." No, we'll give
him a lot of money. We want him to fight
in the UFC. And it never took place,
unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. So crazy.
Yeah. So, he's about to fight again. Fed
is going to fight bare knuckle. Yeah. I
I heard something about that. Yeah. I
think Connor's promotion. I think it's
Connor's promotion. That BKFD, actually.
Do you think he's going to come back,
Connor? If I had a bet. No. Yeah. No.
why he comes back cuz he hasn't come
back yet. And he could have, you know,
if he really wanted to, he would have
been back in the gym, had a fight
scheduled, drug tested, clean, training,
gone through a camp, had a fight. Like,
he had a broken toe before the first
fight with Tran Chandler. I understand
that. Okay. Why should you fight in a
broken toe? Especially a guy who moves a
lot like Connor. He relies on movement
so much. Yeah, I get it. So, heal that
toe up. What's that? That's two months.
Broken toes is two months. Yeah. And so
then you're back in camp and then you
you reschedule a fight and then you
fight again. But he didn't. Um and also
partying, constant partying, all these
law legal problems that he has, you
know, scooting around on yachts and, you
know, driving around a Lamborghini. He's
he's wealthy. He's done. Maybe. I mean,
the what's really sad is if he comes
back when he's like 39 or 40 and his
body just doesn't have it anymore, you
know? So, right now, he actually has a
great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could
fight, right? Right. They could fight
right now. Yeah, they could fight
because if they put him against Potty, I
think Patty beats him easy now. Well, a
lot of years off, right? A lot of years
off, you know, on the feet. Conor's a
[ __ ] No, at the in the feed.
He's a [ __ ] I I know that he
can knock out like everyone. If he's
still the same guy. Yeah. But the thing
is he's 36 now, you know, and if he's
natural also
reality, okay, when he breaks his leg,
he gets off the drug testing, right? Cuz
he's got to do something to heal his leg
quicker. So, what is he going to do?
Well, you're going to take steroids. So,
if you're going to take steroids and
you're already
34ish, your endocrine system gets [ __ ]
up by taking steroids where your body
stops producing testosterone. So, I've
had explain it to me by scientists
before and essentially say if you take
steroids for 6 months, you need at least
6 months before your body starts
producing testosterone at a normal level
again. Okay? Some people think it's
twice as long. So, that would be a year.
a year of no steroids before your body
regains its natural testosterone levels.
If it does, depending if it does, you
think that if someone puts steroids in
his body, he he never comes back as
a as his at his normal body. Vtor
Belelffort is the best example of this,
right? He's the best guy that we could
use as an example, but he took bunch of
stuck
[Laughter]
Luke Rockold said when he when he was
weighing in when he fought him, he said,
"This guy's got muscles on his [ __ ]
teeth." Yeah. On his mark. Exactly,
bro. But if you go back to Vtor when he
fought Anderson Silva before they had
testosterone use exemptions, he didn't
look like that at all. No, he looked old
actually. He looked like his body was
relaxed. Yeah. Because Vtor Yeah. So
this is the look at the difference
before you saw it and after you saw it.
I mean that is a crazy example. So when
he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked
soft and like his muscles look empty.
They just didn't look the same. And that
was just a couple of years after test.
They [ __ ] up with the testosterone use
exemption because what they did was they
would test guys and if you're low on
testosterone, oh, you can have a
testosterone use exemption. But you
could get low on testosterone in a night
if you wanted to. All you'd have to do
is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink
and stay up all night and your body's
natural levels of testosterone would be
low. So you could go get drug you who
has normal healthy levels of
testosterone. You could wreck your body
on purpose, then go get drug tested and
they say, "Oh, Ilia, you have low
testosterone. I'm going to prescribe to
you testosterone exemption." And so then
you go and take testosterone, you become
a [ __ ] animal and and you're healthy.
You don't need it. So there was a lot of
guys that were taking it that didn't
need it. So you think that at this point
there are guys in the UFC that are take
uh taking like uh steroids, let's say. I
would imagine there's for sure someone
doing something they're not supposed to
do. Yeah. Wow. I don't know because at
this point I feel that they are so
strict with the they are so strict.
There's a lot of guys that do their
camps in far away lands and I think that
like people always used to joke around
about Dagistan, you know, like try try
getting a USADA guy into Dagistan, you
know, the moment he lands, everybody's
going to call everybody drug test in in
in Dagistan. They they test Khabib for
example in Dagistan. No, I'm sure I'm
sure they must have. And what if someone
landed from an issue where some guys
from USADA and Kabib's camp they had
like they had some issue some issue.
Yeah, they had some I remember like
something like that. But you go over
there like and you know you want to get
out you got to be careful. Nah, you get
that. Yeah. But I would imagine that if
you want to avoid being tested all the
time, like say like if you are in
America and you know you live in
Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all
the time. They'll test you a bunch, you
know, and there's some people that have
been tested a bunch. They get tested a
lot. And then some people that don't get
tested as much. And if you're going to
go and do your camp in Thailand or
you're going to go do your camp in
Dagistan or it's a lot more difficult to
get to you to test you randomly. Yeah.
But they can anyway, so you can trust on
on if they come or not. But there's
short acting stuff. There's like um when
uh Alex Rodriguez
is that A-Rod, right? Yeah. When he was
fighting or excuse me, when he was
playing baseball rather, they were
taking gummies, testosterone gummies.
Okay. And the testosterone literally
only lasts for a few hours and it's out
of your system. Wow. Yeah. I never heard
that. Yeah. There's certain stuff that
you can take like EPO that's very
shortlasting, very difficult to test,
very shortlasting. And there's in my
case, I don't like that because I
wouldn't feel good with myself, right?
I'm I'm going to feel like I'm cheating,
right? I I don't deserve the the whim
because I'm cheating. I'm a cheater. I I
can't have that thought that that
thought about myself all the time. I
when I walk inside the octagon, I feel
that I didn't cheat and I deserve the
win and that's why I'm going to win.
Well, that's why guys like BJ Penn are
so impressive cuz BJ Penn was clean when
everybody was cheating. Yeah, cuz back
then it was really difficult to test.
All they tested was at the weigh-ins.
So, at the weigh-ins, that's like an
intelligence test. Like if you cheat and
take steroids intelligently, by the time
you get to the weigh-ins, you're going
to be clean. If you do it with a doctor,
I know camps and I don't want to say the
names, but they had scientists working
for the camps. And the scientists, these
doctors would study guys blood work and
make sure that they were clean by the
time they got into camp or by the time
they got into the weigh-ins. So when
they were on the scale, they still had
all the benefits of steroids, but they
had no steroids in their system and
their body hadn't started to deteriorate
yet from the lack of steroids. I know
some camp camps also that they use
steroids. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, for
me, you can have all the muscles in the
world, but if you are not mentally
strong because that's so specific moment
when you are in the backstage, you need
your mind so badly. You need it more
than your body sometimes
because as I told you, you can have all
the muscles in the world, but you need
this muscle as strong as possible, you
know. And if you know you cheated and
you know you're cheating bad. Yeah. That
you are not in what you in reality are
saying that you are. Right. Right.
Right. That that's a tough one. I don't
want to I don't want to see myself in
that situation. Never. That's a
champions mindset. Yeah. Yeah. That's a
real champions mindset. Some guys, they
just want to do anything to win. They
want to do anything to win. When and if
they have to cheat to win, they'll
cheat. They'll And they they'll justify
it by saying everybody cheats. Yeah. I
I'm a God believer and and my mindset is
like, of course, I want to win. I
prepare myself to win. But if he
destroys my plans is because maybe my
plans could destroy me. So I don't want
to have anything because I want to have
it if he decides it. If God decides to
to give it to me, I accept it. I will do
everything to get it because I desire it
from all my heart. And if he says that
if I desire it, I have the faith, I will
get it. M so this and the reality is if
you give everything you have and you
lose you win a lesson and you realize
you're not at the level that you need to
be there's never a lose or you win or
you learn and learn learning is also a
winning right where did you develop your
mindset have you got any mental coaching
did you read books on psychology I I
read a lot of books I try to read at
least uh 30 minutes a day but it's every
day every day what you do and and and
your daily habits it it what's what
makes the difference right because we
can decide our future but we can decide
our habits and our habits decide our
future
yes yeah so like what kind of stuff do
you read
uh I read more like
um I I read a lot of books I love
reading books
uh of self-development books.
Uh
also how can I tell you in
and yeah this is the most of the books I
I I read self-development books I I read
uh
biographies of of the people that I like
for example do Donald Trump Warren
Buffett I read that kind of people
businessmen yeah I try to
why do you read businessmen's
biographies because at the end of the
day. Right now, I'm in sports, but at
some point, I'm going to retire and I'm
going to make a I have to make a living
from from something, right? Because I'm
I'm not going to be fighting my whole
life and I don't want it even. So, yeah,
I want to I want to prepare myself. So,
if you want to have extraordinary life,
you have to be extra extraordinary
person, right? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.
And I'm trying to to become an
extraordinary person in all walks of
life. In all walks of life. Yeah. So, do
you have an idea of when you want to
retire?
Um, how old do you know? Till I enjoy.
28. 28. 28. Till I enjoy. I don't know
how many fights.
Maybe till 32, 34. Really? Yeah. I don't
know. Till I enjoy. Right now, I'm
enjoying. I don't know what's going to
happen tomorrow. So, you'll take that
road when it comes. What do you mean? uh
you'll find when it when that happens
when you no longer enjoy then you will
go on a different path
then you will retire. I don't know right
now I I I want to become a lightweight
world champion. I want to hold that belt
too. So I don't know what's what's going
to happen then if I'm going to keep
motivated. It's kind of difficult. This
is a fight game. Five game is so hard.
so hard because you have to go in and
shake someone's head off and you can't
you can't be that soft guy, you know
what I mean? Like that kind guy. You
have to be you you got to have that
testosterone app. You got to be vicious.
Exactly. Yeah. You got to be technical,
you got to be smart, but you also have
to be vicious. And at the same time,
everyone from my family is involved in
in in my career. You know, at some point
maybe I will end
up do a different things. Maybe some
businesses. Right now I'm I'm I'm doing
different things and I'm enjoying it
also. So you're doing different things
outside of fighting. Yeah, I have a
promotion in Spain right now. Oh, MMA
promotion. MMA promotion. What's it
called? Wo. Wo. And the goal with Wo is
to to because as you mentioned when you
say wo, how you how you spelling that?
Uh way of the warrior. Oh wow. Okay. So
from Spain to get to the UFC before was
so difficult. I had to do so many crazy
things to to get to the UFC. But right
now, we create WO and actually we are in
the UFC fight pass. Everyone can get in
in in that promotion fight if you have
the the skills, if you are ready,
someone's going to see you and they're
going to sign you in the UFC. The
promoter's life is a hard life. That's a
hard job. Yeah. You think so? Yeah. It's
very entertaining to be honest. When I
talked to Dana at least promoting for
the UFC, like I was talking to him this
weekend and he was telling me all the
issues that they're having and with
different fights that was ask I was
asking him some questions like what are
you doing with this? What are you doing
with that? And he starts telling me that
oh this guy wants that this I won't
fight this guy. He told you something
about me. Maybe maybe a little bit if he
did I can't tell you. I did ask who
you're going to fight and they said
we're working on things. But uh he was
actually specifically talking about um
what happens if Bal wins.
You know, because uh Islam and Bal have
been they've been talking about Islam
fighting Bal. That's going to happen. I
would like that to happen if Bal wins,
but that's an if. Jack Dela Matalena is
a bad [ __ ] He's good, man. That
guy's good. Even if he wins, they're
going to make that fight happen against
Islam. You think so?
Yeah. Well, if Jack Damatelena wins,
then Jack is the new welterweight
champion and you know, maybe he fights
Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The
problem with Islam fighting Bal is that
they train together and I think, you
know, they'd kind of sit. How many guys
we we see fight fight fighting between
each other that they used to train
before? Oh, I agree. I mean, I think
they should fight. I definitely think
they should fight. I think Kabib doesn't
like that idea.
Yeah.
Yeah. That's how I feel. But it's not
just that. I mean, Jana is always
putting out a million fires. I mean,
think about it. They have 500 fighters
on the way on in the roster at least.
And, you know, there's all these things
that are happening and like like the
Arman Surukian thing like his back hurts
the day of the fight. Wow. He's got to
pull out like this is [ __ ] crazy.
This is, you know what I mean? Like
imagine that you have this whole
promotion based around this uh elite
fighter who's who fought Islam in his
first fight, short notice. They they go
to a very close decision, a very close
fight. Arman's gotten a lot better.
Islam's gotten a lot better. Then
they're going to fight again and then
the day of he hurts his back.
Crazy. It happens. Yeah. Very crazy.
Yeah. But if you will be in the Danish
place, who would be my next opponent?
Islam. 100%. 100%. I wish they I tried
to tell him that this weekend. That
would be a great fight. Yeah, it's the
that's the fight to make. Uh because you
have a world champion versus a world
champion. Like if anybody deserves a
fight for the world title in the next
weight class, it's you. It's it's
simple. It's simple. You knocked out Max
Holloway. I mean, it's simple. You
knocked out Alexander Vulcanowski, one
of the greatest of all time. It's
simple. That's a no-brainer. That's the
fight. You know, he doesn't want to
fight 45 anymore. He wants to fight 55.
World titers. And nobody would argue
with that. That would be a huge fight.
Everybody would get excited about it.
Yeah. Yeah, hopefully they they make
those fights happen. Yeah, hopefully. I
don't have any say. Like I said, I'd get
rid of the cage. I'd get rid of
standups. I get I'd [ __ ] everything up
for them. I would make it uh less
marketable probably. I would. Anyways,
if they give me the fight with Charles,
it's going to be one, too. That's a
great fight, too. That's a great fight,
too. There's a lot of guys in that
division. You know, there's there's a
lot of good fights for you at 155
pounds. Do you have a timeline of when
you would like to fight at 155?
I would like to fight with with Islam.
That's for sure. I I would like to fight
him. But if they don't give you that
fight if they give you like a number one
contender fight. When would you like to
fight next? I I wouldn't fight for a
number one contender fight. You only
want to fight for the title. Yeah, of
course. Really? Okay. Of course. I
understand. That makes sense to me.
Look, also it's the most marketable
fight. Everybody else has lost to him,
right? I don't care if Islam decides
that he doesn't want to fight me. I
don't care. I sit till you're going to
have to fight me. Okay? You say that you
are the world champion. You're going to
keep dominating the the division, all
that. I'm here. You you you can't keep
avoiding me all the time. So, you would
just sit on the sidelines rather than
fight someone else. I don't think that
they're going to do that. I don't think
they they would put me on a sideline
because they asked me to. I I wade the
bell because I told him that I wouldn't
fight in 145 again, but I get the
promise that I would fight for
Tyler in my next fight. Mhm. So, how
much time you will stop me and from the
fighting? So, they did give you a
promise that your next when you vacated
the belt that your next fight if they
give that that chance to everyone, why
why not to me? They gave it to Henry
Sahul. They gave it to Conor McGregor.
They gave it to George Aier. They gave
it to to Jo. They gave it to everyone,
right? And I proved that I deserve that
shot. As you said, I I knock out uh two
of the all-time greats. Two two of the
all-time greats. Two of the greats. Walk
who who was like dominating everyone in
in 145 division. And Max
Holloway, great fighters, bo both of
them, especially after Max Holloway's
victory over Justin Gachi, which is like
the greatest victory of his career.
Yeah. to knock him out after that and no
one did it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean,
I'd say world title fight, but I don't
get to make the rules. And the last
fight he had was in 155, right, against
Justin Gachi, who also fought for the
title. Yep. So, yeah. And then the other
thing is there's not really a compelling
challenger at 155 other than you. If you
look at it like he's kind of cleaned out
the division. There's no no one else. I
mean, Arman's got to build himself back
up. He's not going to get a title shot.
I would put Justin Gachi against Patty
Pimble. Me against Islam. Once I pass
him, I get the title. And you you you
put me against Patty because I think
that he he's gonna You think Patty's
going to beat Justin Gage? Easy. Wow.
Really easy. Yeah. Easy. Really easy.
Yeah. Wow. That's a crazy thing to say
because Justin Gage is a [ __ ] animal.
Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple
and pen knows how. But he's a division
one wrestler. He knows how to grapple.
You don't think he knows how to gra? He
just chooses not to. He chooses to stand
and fight. I don't think so. Did you
ever saw him submitting someone? I don't
believe he's ever submitted someone, but
I think that's because he likes to just
crush people. He likes to bang it out
and fight. He used to fight. What
everyone likes is to dominate people and
and to win as soon as possible. If you
have the ability to submit someone as
soon as you can, you would do it.
I think that's your mindset. I think
Justin Gates's mindset is to be the most
violent person alive. Yeah. Yeah. And I
think that's one of the reasons why he
lost some fights early in his career
because he took unnecessary chances and
he fought recklessly. Then as he
adjusted later in his career, he fought
more intelligently. He took a lot of
risks still, but he was more intelligent
about it. He was more intelligent about
the way he approached fights and then he
started winning and beating guys and
that you know like where he might have
like thrown himself into wars before
like the Michael Johnson fight was just
chaos. Just a war just the first fight
in the UFC just throws himself into
chaos that fight. Yeah, chaos. Yeah, he
would just throw he would just try to
see he was like Michael Chandler but a
better fighter, you know, just more
successful at it at a high level. So,
you pick Justin Gachi over Patty? I
don't say that. Um, I do think that
Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a
lot of miles on him. Although he's a
[ __ ] animal. And how old is Justin
Gage? Justin's probably 35. How old is
Justin? 36. Turns 37 in November. Yeah,
that's when it starts to slip away. If
you're natural everything after 35, like
this is one of the most extraordinary
things about Alexander Vas. I don't
think that he's the type of guy that
takes care of his body all the time and
he's like very strict with his health. I
think he slept more at at day than at
night. Oh, you think so? Did he parties?
I think so. I don't know. They put the
camera on him on the last pay-per-view
and he looked like he was so high.
Like this high I'm not worried about.
What I'm worried about is drunk. Cuz
high doesn't give you the hangover. High
doesn't kill your body. Drunk kills your
body. If guys are in between camps
getting fat and drinking, that's never a
good sign. That's a bad sign. That
that's because you're not just not
training, you're deteriorating your
body. You know, if Justin Gay is just
smoking a little weed, I'm not worried
about that. Um it's not the best for
focus. He doesn't seems to be that guy
that drinks a lot. No, I don't think so.
I don't think so. Cocaine is the worst.
worst. When you hear guys doing coke,
that's the worst. That's the one that
deteriorates you more than anything. I
never ever saw a cocaine in my life. Me
neither. I never never done cocaine
either. I when I was a kid, I had a a
friend whose cousin was hooked on
cocaine. I got to see it up close. Yeah.
I was like, "Fuck that stuff." That's a
scary one for fighters, too, because the
thrill of cocaine, for some reason, is
exciting to people who love like
exciting things. Like, there's something
about fighters are adrenaline junkies.
They like to be pumped up and yeah,
Connor seems to enjoy it, which is one
of the things that makes me think he
probably won't come back. But if he does
come back, it's got to be now, you know,
again at 36 years old now. Patty
Pimpblelet,
that's the fight. That'll be a big
That's going to be a big fight. Big
fight. Yeah. But I don't even think
Connor's in the drug testing pool
anymore.
No. I don't believe so. I don't believe
so. See if you can Google that, find out
if he's in a draw. I think he pulled
back. He's gonna come back. You think
so? Yeah. If they give the the
opportunity to to I don't know to to
guys like I don't know what 40 years old
like
Arloski. You can have so many names that
they fought at four years at four years
age. Why not Conor? I know that you want
a world title fight at 155, but would
you make an exception for a Conor
McGregor fight in 155?
But right now, right now? No. No. No.
Good for you. Do you think it's going to
be excited if I beat Islam and then I
give the the the chance to Connor? No. I
mean, like right now before Islam, like
if the the UFC calls you up and says, "I
know you want a world title fight. We
guarantee you a world title fight after
this." Actually, we had that talks like
Really? Yeah. But yeah, I don't know.
What was that? What was that talk? Tell
me what that talk was like. No, no, no.
Come on. Come on. Come on.
I did this one and I'm going to get some
calls that you know how the UFC is. They
are like very specific. Don't say
anything, right? To no one. Well, no
one's listening. You can tell everybody.
Yeah. Yeah.
Only couple of million of people is
listening. Yeah.
It'll slip right by. Yeah. If they offer
me a fight against Connor right now,
we'll say why not? Why not? Why not?
Why? I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't say
no. Just for the numbers to get a cut of
that pay-per-view and it hits two
million pies. Yeah. Woo. Why not? That's
the thing about Connor is like still
even though he might not be the best
fighter in the world right now, he's
still the he's the golden goose. Of
course he is. Yeah. That's something you
can't take kind of amazing. you know
that still he still guarantees that many
eyeballs will go to see him. You know,
it just that would be a a great one. But
what excites me more is the fight with
Patty. Really? Yeah, that fight excites
me even more. And if they could put that
fight in Spain in the Bay Nabu Stadium.
Oh, I I know that Dana doesn't like to
to to put the events in stadium, but
that's the only stadium in the world
that they can close the roof. Oh, okay.
Yeah. And this prepared for that kind of
How many people? 80,000.
You get 80,000 in Spain easy, too. Yeah.
If you're fighting in Spain, no problem.
Oh my god, that would be insane. I might
have to go to Spain for that. And and a
lot of people could travel from England
to Spain. Oh yeah. And that happens very
often. But if they do it in Spain, it's
got to be on Spain time. They can't do
that [ __ ] that they did when Leon
Edwards fought. It has to be in Spain
time. But I think that the with
the like the negotiations they they are
having with ESPN and I don't know in
which platform they are going to put the
UFC events.
They're going to ask for space for four
or five events in Europe in the prime
time for Europe. Europe this is listen
Europe time prime time is fine because
it's in the afternoon in America. That's
fine. So the fights at 1:00 in the
afternoon you people watch football
games 100 million people watch a
football game stills to be a virgin uh
market. You know what I mean? You got
500 million people in Europe. It's more
than the United States even, right? And
if they did it on Netflix, everybody has
Netflix. Everybody has Netflix. That
might happen. That's why they're in
negotiation right now. That will be a
massive one in Spain. In Spain against
that that pimple.
What happened with you two? Because I
saw the video where you guys are yelling
at each other. Was it in a hotel or
something? Yeah, he said something about
Georgia. Oh, he said something about
your country. Yeah, he What did he say?
He said like, "Now I understand what why
the why the Russians are are um bombing
Giorgio or something like putting bombs
in Georgia." Like,
whoa. Don't joke with that. You can joke
about me. Say whatever you want to say
about me. Whatever. He's a mushroom.
He's this. He's that. Da da da. Don't
talk about war because you don't know
how is it, right? That's a crazy thing
to say. Don't say that. Yeah. So, that
was the beginning of it. It just out of
nowhere he said that. He said that on
Twitter. Oh, wow. He said that on
Twitter. Maybe he was too high, too
drunk. I don't know. He was talking
[ __ ] you know? I mean, it gets people
to pay attention. He's really good at
getting people to pay attention, you
Yeah, he is. He's really good at that. I
mean, he could be the next Conor
McGregor star. Like that kind of a star
where the whole world is watching. That
weird personality. Yes. Yeah, he has
that. Well, he's very disarming cuz
people they see I talked about this in
the last pay-per-view. I said I said
it's a very sneaky trick because guys
like you, you look at you, the way you
carry yourself, the way you that's a
fighter. Like you look at that guy's a
dangerous [ __ ] But when you see
Patty, he's dancing like this. His hair
is flopping around like he's in the
Beatles, you know? He's like, he seems
silly, but then he [ __ ] people up. And
so I think people he [ __ ] people up
like Michael Chandler, right? But when
he he he faced a real fight, who who did
he face? Well, he hasn't faced anyone
that good yet, but he [ __ ] up Michael
Chandler better than Charles Olivera
did. It does. And Charles Oluea even
this what what I was telling you before,
like when you got 10 losses in your
record, that's not one, two, three,
four, five, six. That's 10. Yeah. Like
when you walk in with a guy that has 10
loes, the level of confidence is
completely different. It's completely
different than when you walk in with a
guy that it's undefeated, right? He's a
dangerous guy in the striking, in the
ground game, everywhere. You you look at
him, he's a dangerous guy. He never
tastes a lose. That's a different
mentality. You got to you're going to
have to kill him to give up. He's not
going to even give up. You're going to
have to kill him. In the case of
Charles, if he finds some adversity,
he's going to go to the to to to the
ground. He's gonna sit and he's gonna be
waiting like till you you end up the
fight. This is what I think. This is
what I feel. This is what I see. That
was certainly the case early in his
career. I think things changed with him
when he had a child. Um then he went on
that run and became a champion. And like
when he beat Justin Gai, when he beat
all those guys, he was he was pretty
elite, man. He was really [ __ ] good.
When he beat Chandler, when Chandler had
beat him up in that first round, he came
back in the second round and [ __ ] him
up. Who? Chandler.
Yeah. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I
get it. Uh Connor's been tested 11 times
last year, five the year before, none
this year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
This He was tested this year. No, none
this year. None this year. That's what
I'm saying. 11 times last year. Yeah.
I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool
anymore. I don't know. I don't know. You
know, I've heard no plans. You know, the
UFC would tell me. I would say, "What's
going on with Connor?" And I don't even
bring it up anymore. It's I think with
him it's going to happen like instantly
if something happens. Well, that's
crazy. I mean, if he's going to prepare,
he needs like a real long camp to really
get his body back to fighting shape,
like real fighting shape. And he's got
to remember, you know, what happened
when he came back from boxing and then
fought Dustin Porier. It depends who
he's going to face because if you put
him against against me, he needs to die
and be burned again.
Yeah, I hear
you. Yeah. If when you when you think
about like your division when you were
um the the champion at 145, would he
have been the fight that you would have
wanted when he was in his prime at 45?
Would that be the number one fight that
you would wanted at 145? For sure. Yeah.
For sure. My god. For sure. He was a
dangerous guy in 145. He was so big. He
was big, dangerous. Yeah, he had that
knockout power. Smart. Yeah.
Yeah. One shot knockout power. Yeah. He
He had that. Yeah. But when he would
make 145, I remember uh that was back
when the weigh-ins were literally right
there. You'd weigh a guy in and then
they they would cheer in front of the
crowd. Now the weigh-ins are early and
it's a ceremonial weigh- in. So when
Connor would weigh in, he would look
like death.
death. Yeah. See if you can find the
video of the weigh-ins with Conor
McGregor versus Jose Aldo. He looks like
he was on a boat in the middle of the
ocean for 6 months. Like, look at him.
Look at his face. Wow. Look at his face.
Look at that one right there with Mike
Goldberg. Click that one with Mike
Goldberg right here. Yeah. Click on
that. My god. Look how [ __ ] skinny he
looks. Look at his face, his cheekbones.
He looks like he just got out of like
some Russian prison. Like, you know what
I mean, bro? That one on the right is
insane.
It's [ __ ] insane. with muscles.
That's insane. I wonder how much weight
he lost.
I think he he he walks around in 185.
So, he lost 40 pounds before he fought.
That's crazy.
He fought also at at the welterweight
division, right? Yes, he fought uh well
he fought Donald Cerrone who was really
not a welterweight either. He was a 155
pounder, you know, but he wanted to
fight welterweight when he came back.
Like when they were talking about
Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at
middleweight and Chandler was like,
"Okay, like but you know, part of me
wonders like whether he was ever really
going to come back." You know, it's
you know what I mean? He's going I
really think that at some point he's
going to he's going to come back because
I don't think that he he he wants to
leave the sport with a defeat, right?
This what uh what I don't think I think
that he's going to come back, try to get
the win, and then retire in the octagon.
Well, I'd like to see that. I'd like to
see him one more time. Um it'd be good
for him, too, to actually go to a real
camp and stop partying, you know. will
be good for him, for his family, for
everyone, for everyone. But but at some
point, he's going to stop. He's got a
lot of legal problems, too. You know,
there's a lot going on with him in
Ireland. But he he's running for the
president. Well, they're talking about
prosecuting him for old tweets, too.
Ireland Yeah, Ireland is going crazy
with their woke [ __ ] with uh with the
restrictions and censorship. The same
way the UK is. It's it's really scary
stuff. But they're prosecuting people
for tweets. That's crazy. Yeah. England
arrested like 4,000 people last year for
posting things on social media. No way.
Yeah. Yeah.
What did they say? You don't even have
to say anything crazy. You know, you
could just say, "I don't want any more
immigrants in my country," and they'll
they'll [ __ ] prosecute you. It's
really crazy. Wow. Yeah. It's it's
that's not a freedom. No, it's not at
all. Free speech. That's it's
totalitarian government. And it's it's
scary because it's uh they're they're
using it to silence people to silence
people's uh opinions and crazy. Um see
if you can find what's going on with
Connor because there was something about
Conor McGregor possibly being prosecuted
for social media posts from I believe it
was
2023. Some recent posts that he had made
where they were going to bring them back
up and prosecute him for it. And he had
also like the the case with the rabbits
and all that. Yeah. And I think because
he wants to run for president, of
course, then they're going to use the
law to try to stop him because look,
he's very popular in Ireland and he
might win, you know? I mean, if if these
people think that their country is being
invaded by to some people from Ireland,
like what are the odds that Con becomes
the the president? They told me like
probably zero. Conor McGregor will not
face charges over social media posts
made before and during the Dublin riots.
Yeah. You know what? They said that
about Trump, too. That Trump wasn't
gonna win either. They said Trump wasn't
Yeah. All the [ __ ] newspapers,
everything was saying the chances are
none. No, but I asked to the people. I
didn't ask. I didn't read the depends on
who you're talking to, though. Yeah. You
know, it it really depends on how he
conducts himself. To him. Oh, to him.
Okay. Okay. They're like, "No way."
Yeah. Yeah. Look, he should be fighting
and he should be fighting while he can
because you don't want to be 49 years
old sitting back thinking if you could
have just won more. Could have got it
together if I just stopped
partying. I really think that he's going
to come back at some point, but we'll
see. There's also the problem of that
shin, you know, when a shin snaps like
that, that's a nobody really comes back
from that and fights. His body is
[ __ ] He his toy is fact. His chin is
fact. his body's [ __ ] with with that
that much parties and drugs and all
that. You're going to have to pay that
price at some point. Yeah. And you are
you are paying the price with your
health. Yeah. Which is the dumbest thing
you can do in in your entire life. It
is. It is a dumb thing especially for an
athlete. Exactly. Yeah. He he also
suffered a lot with the weight cuts.
That's a a big damage for your body.
That's also one of the reasons why I
changed the the weight class because I
realized that my health is the most
important thing in in in my life. You c
you can have everything in in this life,
but if you are not healthy, you don't
have anything. Yeah. You you know,
you're when you're cutting that much
water out of your body, you're
essentially getting to death's door.
You're getting to death's door 24 hours
before you fight. But you at a world
championship level, which is crazy.
You sometimes feel that you're really
going to
die. I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours
at all because I was so dehydrated. My
body was so like skinny and I was
dreaming with water, with food, with
everything. I was my social media and
reals everything was about the food foot
food. Everything was about food. At that
moment you don't give a [ __ ] about
anything material about anything. So
tell me when you start. So if you were
going to make 145 on Saturday, what is
your weight cut like or on Friday? What
is your weight cut like for the week?
When does it start? And what do you
weigh before it starts? So okay,
basically I start a weight cut since the
first day I started the training camp,
which is 12 weeks. Really? Yeah. I'm on
like very strict diet and I have only
one cheat meal a week on Saturday, on
Wednesday, whenever I choose it. I have
just one cheat
meal. And at the same time, you have to
perform at the highest level. You have
to train as a [ __ ] all the time.
And you have
like 1,800 calories in your body and you
burn four 4,000 calories. Wow. So you
are wasting so much energy but you
aren't getting
back a very low. So that [ __ ] with your
mind right that [ __ ] with your mind
and you don't feel happiness you feel
like stressed
depressed. You don't find the happiness
in anything. They could bring you all
the money in the world but you don't
give a [ __ ] at at that moment in about
anything material. So, you're doing it
all through camp, but when you get to
fight week, what do you what do you
weigh at? Uh, we do the the the water
load. I start on Sunday with eight
liters, and I don't have carbohydrates.
I don't have any sodium, uh, salts and
all that. Uh, do you drink distilled
water? Uh, distilled water. Yeah. Oh,
distilled. Do you know what I'm saying?
No, no, no, no. Just just normal water.
Okay. H I'm not not having
carbohydrates, uh sodiums and fibers.
You you say fibers fibras. Yeah, fiber.
Yeah. I only have fat and and proteins
in a very small portions. And I drink
eight liters on on Sunday, then eight
again on
Monday, six on Thursday. Wednesday I
drink four I think. And then on on
Thursday I don't drink anything till
Friday till the weightins really. And
before the weighins I start to
dehydration the the dehydration like we
do one session in the
morning and I have to lose almost from
two to three kilos and the rest I have
to I have to lose at at night because I
always like to go to the bed uh on on
weight. I don't I don't like to wake up
in the morning and have to cut the the
last part in the morning on Friday
morning. When did you start drinking
wine before weigh-ins? I did it twice in
my in my career. It was once in in Las
Vegas. I was supposed to fight with I
was fighting with Damon
Jackson and I
had I had like
still six kilos or something like this.
That's a lot. That's a lot of weight to
cut. And the guy who was uh taking care
of my nutrition, he he called us and he
told me, "Drink wine. Drink half half
bar of wine." I'm like, "You sure?" Yes.
He told me because if you drink a liter
of wine, you're going to wake up the
next day if you don't put anything else
in your body with two liters less
dehydration. Yeah. Because the the the
alcohol it's going to
uh procate the dehydration.
I did it and it
works. And after that I did it in my
next fight.
But then I was like, I don't feel good.
I don't feel good doing this in the wake
up. This is kind of crazy. It's fun.
It's fun because everyone wants to I
don't know. Everyone is almost dying.
that that that night I was like partying
with my team so skinny drinking wine.
I'm like what the [ __ ] we doing? And
after one day I have to I have to fa
face a monster in inside the
octagon experience in life. And so then
you weigh in and then what is the
rehydration process like? And so I I
used to drink the
electrolytes until I don't start to pee.
I don't put any food in my body. I drink
almost for three four hours in small
portions. And right now we are so lucky
that we have the performance institute.
We have great nutritionist in in in in
that program that help us to to do it
from the right way. So I start drinking
in half liter of of electrolytes for
example let's say for 20 minutes I have
to drink that I can drink more then one
one that 20 minutes passed I have to
drink the another bottle and like that
progressively
and so once you start to pee then you
allow yourself to eat food. Exactly. And
what kind of food are you eating?
Most likely carbohydrates. I don't used
to eat any proteins because it doesn't
help you at all to to have a great
performance in inside the octal, right?
Because the protein
doesn't give you
any how say how to
say glucosa glucose. Yeah, glucose that
your body needs at at that time. You
everything you need it's
electrolytes and carbohydrates. That's
all you need. Not even fibers.
Okay. So, like what kind of food? Like
pasta? Like that kind of stuff? Pasta.
How good does that taste after all that
time, bro? Amazing. Amazing. You You
could cook the pasta for me that day.
And I don't know how good you cook, but
it will be amazing. Amazing. I don't
care about So, you've gone so long
without carbohydrates.
I have like almost a week and a half
without
carbohydrates and I'm struggling for 12
weeks because I have only one cheat
meal. So once I I finish the cheat meal,
I know that in one week I'm not going to
have another cheat meal. So I'm going to
have to eat whatever they tell me to to
to eat. Like I wake up, I know that I'm
going to have two eggs with one slice of
bread and I'm going to have to train I
don't know how much in the morning and
then in the afternoon I'm going to have
to train again and I'm going to have the
same food all the time. And the the good
thing about that is that my
wife she she was like a very important
part in my last training camps because
he made
my my diet more more fun. You know, I
didn't had to to repeat the food all the
time because when I was in charge of
that, just imagine what I was eating all
the time the same. All the same. just
the same boring food just get through
the month food because I didn't even had
like the the opportunities that I have
right now. Right now I have a chef. I
have I set up my home with everything.
Everything is so comfortable. But before
I had to cook for myself, uh go to the
supermarket doing everything for by
myself and it was tough. So all the
foods weighed out, all the calories are
measured, everything's very systematic.
Um, so with this extra 10 lbs, how much
better do you think you'll be able to
perform inside the octagon? Because I
would imagine physically that's got to
take a toll on you. As good as your
performances were, and they were
spectacular, but as good as your
performances were, your body could not
have been operating at 100%.
100%. You are going to see me at 155
that I'm going to touch someone and I'm
going to take his lights out. Even if I
I don't need to touch his chin. I just
touch his head and it will explode. I
feel so powerful at that weight class.
So power, so stable in the ground. Like,
do you want to wrestle? Let's wrestle.
No problem. And I have the gas tank for
five days, not five rounds. Do you think
that a lot of fighters maybe diminish
their potential by competing at a lower
weight class for too long? It depends.
It
depends. Some of them, yes. Some of them
know because I think there are guys
fighting in 145
that they could fight in 135 because
they are smaller. They like Josie Aldo.
Like Jos Aldo. I mean he was one of the
best ever at 145 and really looks
fantastic now at 135. Exactly. And says
this is the first time at 35 in his
career that he's ever taken nutrition
seriously and had a diet. But at the
same time he was a world champion right
for so long. one of the best and one of
the best. May May he he would cut the
weight at 135 and he wouldn't succeed at
this level, right? Cuz he wouldn't have
the energy, but Jose Aldo was big at 145
back in the day. He would struggle to
make 145 earlier in his career, but I
just think he wasn't doing it the right
way like you're doing it. You know, I
think athletes of today are much more
systematic about that and they have more
information about the nutrition. And
they have we we got more help from the
performance institute as they told you
like the UFC performance institute is
incredible there when when I remember
when they first opened it I was a little
skeptical. I'm like who's going to use
this? What is the big deal? And then I
went there I was like oh bro okay crazy.
This is amazing. Without them you
wouldn't see many of the fights that we
have seen. A lot of people would miss
the weight. A lot of people. Yeah. So at
155 you're going to be able to eat more.
You're going to be able to train more.
or you'll be able to recover better.
Like everything much better. They're
really taking care of you. I can't wait.
I can't wait to see it. I can't wait
either. I can't wait. I want to fight.
So, take me through like what is a
typical training week like for you? How
much strength and conditioning do you
do? How much uh how much do you
concentrate on technique? How much do
you spar?
Outside or inside the training camp? Um,
let's go with outside the training camp
first. So, out outside the training
camp, I try to develop my skills in
every discipline. Like I try to to not
mix it up. I don't train MMA at all. I
do boxing classes, wrestling classes. I
try to learn every discipline separate.
Why do you do that? Because when the
training camp
comes, I try to mix it up and polish
everything that I have been able to to
learn till that moment. You know what I
mean? Everything that work worked for me
in in wrestling and boxing in in in the
places where I feel comfortable like
that's why I want to develop all the
time my my knowledge. I want to get
better all the time. And I can get
better if I only go and train MMA and I
only drill the same things all the time,
right? My head is like get getting stuck
getting stuck, you know? I need to learn
new techniques because I I I think that
I have much more to learn in every
discipline. Like in BJJ, you never end
up learning all the time. You learn new
things, you see new things, you want to
try it and it it takes some time. That's
that technique works for you and and
when you're rolling with someone for
example. Right. Right. So yeah, one
thing is what you know and the other is
what you do with what you know. How do
you know how much time to allocate to
each specific discipline? Because
something like Brazilian jiu-jitsu, it's
a neverending journey. Like there's so
many techniques. It's it's un there's so
many different combinations of things
that you could do to a human body when
you're grappling.
So the thing about me is like you have
to decide what kind of style do you want
to have. Do you want to fight from the
guard? You you how do you say guard?
Yeah. You want to pass the guard like
there are different styles. Right.
Right. But at some point I I was I was
like fighting all the time from the
guard. I was doing like the beating
balls, baby balls, everything because I
needed to to feel what the people feels
when I'm passing the guard, the the
guard. Yeah. You know what I mean? So,
the same thing with boxing for example,
someone has a defensive style. Someone
has uh aggressive style but from
distance. Someone needs to cut to to
distance and work more in in the
body. So, I don't know. It's
like it's so difficult to explain
explain it to you. I know what you're
saying though. I think one of your most
impressive performances uh was Josh EMTT
because in Josh Emtt, he's such a
powerful puncher. He's such a dangerous
puncher, but everything he throws you
has murder on it. Everything. But you
just kind of slipped and moved with
everything and just systematically broke
him down. But you adjusted your style
for his danger. you adjusted your style
for him and just dominated the fight. I
think that was one of the most
impressive performances because it
showed how skillful you could be.
Whereas like imagine if Michael Chandler
fought Josh EMTT, it would be [ __ ]
madness. Just madness. Two dudes just
trying to murder each other just [ __ ]
throwing haymakers, you know. But what
you did was you broke down what he was
doing. You found your openings. You
started to get your timing. You started
to figure out, you put all his movements
into your computer and then you you
rolled with everything. Everything he
threw, you rolled with. When he had big
shots, you you moved with them. All his
big
shots were coming with the right hand.
Like he's the type of guy that ends up
every combination with the right hand.
So everything I had to do, it's all the
time. I didn't have to exchange the
punches with him. I had to let him throw
me all the punches, roll his right hand,
and then start with my combinations. And
this is what I really did. Like I I was
hurting him with with with the cuff
kicks. Then I was going for my
combinations and long combinations all
the time. In MMA, no one works the long
combination combinations. No one. They
always used to do one, two, one, two,
three. But no one does one, two, three,
three, four, five, six.
You know, and like the J Herbert fight.
Exactly. Usually you're getting two
punches, everyone blocks two punches,
but after the second one, they put the
hands down again and then is when I go
again like one, two, one, two, three,
four, five. Boom. You are not waiting
for that. And if I change the levels and
I go in the head and the body, cuff
kicks, I go for the takedowns, I mix it
up, you you get crazy. It's interesting
that you didn't start boxing until you
were 17 because you're probably the best
boxer in not just the featherweight
division, but you might be the best
boxer in the sport in terms of your
movement and then your one punch power.
Your one punch power is pretty [ __ ]
crazy, which I think you either have or
you definitely can develop it and it
definitely is dependent upon technique,
but either you have power or you don't
have power. Have you? So, did you always
notice that like from the very beginning
when you first started training? I
always had power. Is that crazy? Yeah,
it is. It's a God-given thing. God-given
thing. 100%. I always had that power. I
remember myself without much technique,
but I was connecting the punches and
putting guys to sleep in the trainings.
And I wasn't that skeptical
guy, but I had that power. But you were
smart enough. See, this is the
difference between like a Josh EMTT
approach and your approach. You were
smart enough to realize that, okay, I've
got this power, but now I need to
develop laser sharp techniques, of
course. And I have to be able to find
the moment. I don't have to just throw
it and believe that I have the power. If
I connect it, I put you to sleep. No,
it's not if I I'm going to connect you
that punch. I'm going to work for that
and I'm going to find that specific
moment to put your lights out. And I
know with everyone, even if in in 155, I
know that I'm going I'm going to be able
to find that find that moment where I'm
going to be able to connect that one
punch or two or three punches because
sometimes it's not only one. I'm able to
combinate punches. You know, sometimes
you think that I'm going for your head
and I'm going my main
combination is to go to the body and I
go to to that with that liver shot and
that hurts also. Oh yeah. Yeah. And
little by maybe I I I I don't knock you
out but it takes a lot of cardio from
you. A lot of moment you start doubting
in yourself. You you getting like wow.
If he connects me with this punch in in
the chin, I'm done. And you're starting
to to to to doubt and then the doubts
kill you at the end. Yeah. It's like
little by little by little. Yeah. It's
um it's interesting how few guys really
work the body. Well, that's one thing
about Jack Dela Matalena is that he's a
very good body puncher, which is one of
the things that I think is very
interesting about this fight with Bal
Muhammad. He's a dangerous body puncher.
He's very good at mixing up and down. No
one uh usually used to attack the body
in the UFC. I don't know why. So, such a
beautiful technique to go to go and work
the body. Not only the head, everyone
goes for the head. Mhm. But there are
also weaknesses in the human being's
body, which is the the body, especially
with those little MMA gloves, you know,
everything hard. Yeah. And you're you're
digging digging into that rib cage. But
it's just it's interesting how the sport
evolves. And I think when a guy like you
comes around that does mix things up so
well and does have elite boxing, the
next generation will also copy you. that
will copy your style, you know, because
like think about the calf kick. There
was no calf kicks forever. Forever. I
don't know when they started with the
calf kick. Benson Henderson. Benson
Henderson. Benson Henderson. He was the
first guy I ever saw do him. He was
doing a lot. And I remember pointing it
out like he wasn't doing it as
effectively where he was like crippling
guys mo movement, but he was doing it a
lot. And then I remember when Dustin
Porier fought Jim Miller, Jim Miller
almost took him out with calf kicks.
Like Justin Porier's calf was destroyed
in that fight and then you know Dustin
Porier became a really good calf kicker
after that and then it became
ubiquitous. Everybody has to have a calf
kick but it comes from Muay Thai. It
comes from kickboxing. It comes from It
sort of does but in Muay Thai they don't
throw it very often. It's not a common
technique in kickboxing or Muay Thai
which is interesting. It's not as common
as it is in MMA. Not so much. It's like
a jab but for the legs.
job. It also cripples your movement
which is terrible because you can't
punch as hard because you don't have a
left leg anymore or right leg depending
on what's forward. And at the same time
it distracts you a lot, right? You know
what I mean? It hurts so much. Yeah. It
hurts. It distracts you. You have to you
you don't only have to think about the
hands, you have to think about also
about the kicks. Well, Izzy said that
when he lost to Alex Pereira the first
fight in in the UFC, he said he wasn't
hurt that bad with the punches. He said
he couldn't move. He said his leg was so
destroyed. He said my leg my left leg
was so compromised I couldn't move. And
then in the second fight when Alex when
he knocked Alex out in the first round,
he said my leg was [ __ ] already. He's
like he was getting me again. He's so
sneaky with that calf kick cuz he throws
it. He's got that weird style. He stands
he and he just kind of throws it out
there and you don't even see it coming
because he's not twisting his hips. He's
not and it's still he hits so hard that
he doesn't have to turn his body weight
into it. and he's still [ __ ] you up.
And at the same time, he had that muscle
memory. He was like, "If he starts with
the calf cake, I'm going to be fucked."
Yeah. He He said that to me. He's like
at the end of the round, I was like,
"Oh, this [ __ ] did it again. I
can't believe he got me again." He's
like, "My leg was fucked." And then he
caught him with that right hand. What's
your alltime favorite fighter to watch
in the UFC?
Boy, I don't think I have one. I don't
think I have one. It's just top five.
Well, you're in there. You're in the top
five. Really? Yeah. For real. Joe,
for real. Yeah, definitely. I mean, how
could you not be? You knocked out two
Hall of Famers. Two of the all-time
greats. Vulcganowski and Max Holloway
are alltime greats. Two of the greatest
featherweight champions. So, if you're a
great featherweight champion, you're the
greatest in a division that probably
has, if not the most skill. There's like
there's an argument for the most skill.
I think it's 45 and 55. I think those
are the two divisions that have the most
skill. Yeah. So to be a a champion at 45
or 55, you're a champion in the most
skillful weight class. Like look at 45.
So many [ __ ] killers at 45 now. Like
look at what Jean Silva just did to
Bryce Mitchell and he wasn't even
ranked. Yeah. You know, I mean this
guy's a [ __ ] man. You know, and
these guys are coming up and they're so
goddamn good. And Yay Rodriguez, you
know, you got these guys that are so
skillful. You got so much talent. I
don't know what to tell you about Gyra
because I'm not a big fan of him. Yer.
Yeah. No. How come? No. No. I don't
know. I I see I see him. He's the type
of guy that you don't even need to take
him down. He goes to the ground by
himself. I don't know. He's like very
spectacular at the way he fights and the
striking and the kicks he throws and all
that.
But I don't know. I'm not a big fan of
him. I'm fan of Wulk and Max Holloway.
Well, actually they were the smartest
guy smartest guys that I ever faced
inside the octagon. I felt that they
were smart. They had that fight IQ. They
they know how to fight. Do you think Max
Holloway made a mistake in going up to
55 and then back down to 45 again cuz he
got big when he fought? 100%. Yeah, I
think so too. 100%. Yeah, he he looked
too compromised. He looked he didn't
look healthy at 45. He get crazy for the
title shot. He was like, "Take the
gold." Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I understand it. I get it.
I understand it. And the guy who was the
145 lb champion, he knew it'd be hard to
make the weight, but he felt like he
could do it. But the thing is, he he
gained so much muscle to get to 55 to
fight Gachi. And he did it over a long
period of time where he really bulked up
well. But at the same time, I don't
know if he wouldn't try it, he would
stay for life like with the doubt that
if I Yeah. Yeah. So, another one is
Pereira just because what he's done
inside the octagon is so crazy. Two
division world champion is a short
period of time and hadn't been fighting
MMA for but three or four years. Crazy.
It was crazy. And it's also what he does
when he hits people. They like what he
did to um well I mean but basically what
he does to everybody when he connects I
mean his his power is just different
than what he did to Jamal Hill one left
hook boom and Jamal Hill who's good at
taking a shot all of a sudden he's gone
you know he's just there's some Yuri
Prohaska that fight like the the second
fight it's crazy crazy he just like he
hits you one time it's like that was
with a with a headkick right uh headkick
in the second round but dropped him with
a left hook he was basically on after
the first round cuz it was at the
buzzer. He hit him with a left hook and
then he drops and then the bell rings.
Um, and then he knocks him out with a
head kick in the second round, but he
he's just got this crazy style that's
different than anybody else's style. And
he's such a specialist, such a
kickboxing specialist. Two division
world champion in glory and then goes on
and becomes a two division special. And
37, you know, he's older. He's an older
guy, you know, to be fighting at such an
elite level, you know. Jon Jones,
definitely. Jon Jones, one of the
greatest of all time. I mean, and John,
what do you think about he's going to
come back? He's going to fight Tom. Yes.
I think he'll fight Tom. I think he'll
hang out. You don't think so? No.
Really? I don't think so. How come?
For
what? For glory. He already has the
glory. Yeah. One more glory before the
lights fade. Yeah. Yeah. I think John's
a conqueror. I think he is. I think he
sit back. He's the best of of all time.
No one can say say the the opposite of
that. He he he's the best. Look, the guy
developed a spinning back kick at 36.
didn't have a spinning back kick his
whole career and all a sudden knocks out
Stipe with a spinning back kick for the
heavyweight title at 36 37 years old.
That's crazy. And uh they showed me a
video the three days ago, four days ago,
John before the fight with Steve, he was
practicing that kick at the day of uh of
the fight. Yes. And he said something
like, "This is the kick. I'm going to
knock him out with this kick." And the
guy showed me the video. That's crazy.
Well, John's fight IQ is insane. Insane.
Insane. Insane. He's a smart he's a
smart guy. And did a lot of his career
partying, which is even crazier. Like
diminish his body. Did co like one of
the things he said to Daniel cocaine,
Daniel Cormier, rather, which is one of
the uh coldest things anybody's ever
said. He said, "I beat you when I was on
Coke."
That's such a cold blooded thing to say.
It's so cold blooded. It's so cold
blooded. Crazy. He's so crazy. He was so
good. But he was so good. He was better
than everybody in his division, so he
didn't work hard. But then when he has
to work hard, he's [ __ ] terrifying.
Like when he fought Alexander Gustoson,
barely trained. They said he barely
trained. Barely was in the gym. They
they were really worried about him. They
were Greg Jackson said they were even
considering not letting him fight.
They're like, "You shouldn't be
fighting. You're not training." Yeah.
And then he he guts it out in the final
rounds, wins the decision, very close
fight. Then they have a rematch. And in
the rematch, he's [ __ ] trained. Yeah.
And then he just destroyed him in the
rematch. The first fight was very
competitive. Second one. Yeah. He
dominated. Not competitive at all. Yeah.
When Jon is focused and Jon is in shape
and training, he's the greatest of all
time. I think he fights Aspenol because
I think it's going to be a lot of money.
It's it's it's glory. And look, Aspenol
is amazing. He's unbelievable. He's fast
as [ __ ] for a heavyweight. He's big. He
can grapple. Black belt and jiu-jitsu.
He's got knockout power. But he's never
been in deep
water ever. I don't even know if he's
gone to a second round. I don't want to
say that he he doesn't have any chance
because everyone has it. One punch can
change everything in in in inside the
octagon. Of course, we everyone think
that Jon Jones is gonna gonna get it,
but you can't count count him out at at
all the Tom Aspina, but I don't think
that he's gonna come back. Me
personally, do you think what is this
here? One time Andrek took him to the
second round. That's it. Oh, really?
Wow. I don't even remember that. And
then he TKO'ed him. That was four years
ago. That's kind of crazy if you look at
his career. It's all one and two. And
then in Bama, he had a two two round
fight. That's great, but it's also not
great because he doesn't have any deep
water experience. You know, if you're
fighting a guy like imagine if he fought
Stipe when Stipe was in his prime or he
fought
Kane, you can't have one round fights
and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a
five round war because the chances are
you're not going to catch him in the
first round and he's gonna his cardio is
just like an alien. Yeah, but at the
same time, you don't know how how he's
going to look at the fourth and fifth
round. He might be great. Might he might
be great. Sure, he might be great, but
he doesn't have that experience. So, in
his head, you've got to think there's
got to be some no matter how confident
he is, there's got to be a couple
questions if you've never been like Jon
has no questions, right? There's no
questions in Jon Jones's head. He's gone
through five round wars like the
Gustoson fight. Five round war, no
training wins. He knows that he's got
what it takes. He's got heart. It's It's
undeniable. So, there's no questions.
But with Aspenol, it's like, yeah, he
can get everybody out of there. He's got
the confidence that he gets everybody
out of there. That's for sure. Like,
he's got the confidence if he connects.
He's so fast and athletic for a
heavyweight. And he's a legitimate
heavyweight. Like Tom Aspenol is not
making 205. He's big. He is big. He's a
big [ __ ] He's big. So for him, you
know, it's But Jon Jones is special.
He's special. He is special and he has
that fight IQ. He's not that type of guy
that he walks in and you, for example, I
don't know, Francis Ninganu, you know
that he he got that one punch power.
Mhm. But he doesn't have the same level
of fight IQ as Jon Jones, right? You
know what I mean? with Jon is like if he
feels that you are dangerous in the
striking, he's going to grab your legs,
try to mold you a little bit in the
ground. Then if you go in the second
round with him in the striking, you're
going to be tired. He also beats the
[ __ ] out of your knees. That front leg
side kick to the knee, the oblique kick
to the knee. He's a bad guy. He wants to
hurt you. He's trying to [ __ ] you up. He
He doesn't care to go with the elbow,
with the knee. He wants to hurt you.
John, when you know when he fought uh
Thiago, Thiago Santos, at the end of
that fight, Thiago needed two knee
surgeries. Both of his knees were
destroyed and he was basically never the
same fighter since ever after that
fight. What happened with that guy? I
never saw him. Never ever. Well, he
fought again after that and he left the
UFC. But his his knees were never the
same. He had multiple knee surgeries
after that fight. Crazy. Both of his
knees got kicked out. I mean, he was
front leg sidekicking the [ __ ] out of
his knees. And what about you used to
train sometimes? MMA, jiu-jitsu. What?
Mostly jiu-jitsu. I did Muay Thai. Yeah,
but I started in taekwond do and then I
started I would love to share some
training with you. I would love to share
some training with you, too. I want to
see what you do, man. I watched you uh
grapple with Morab. I was super
impressed. Yeah. I watched a video you
grapple. I'm like, anybody that could do
that to Morab. Like, holy [ __ ] Cuz
people think about you. They're scared
of your striking. But one of the things,
well, like you opened up a lot of
people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight
because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle.
He was like this elite Brazilian
jiu-jitsu black belt who do a lot of
strange things like he would like turn
his back to people and do weird things.
He'll hook BJ Penn like that in the
first round like with that I role. Yeah.
But when you dominated him like that, I
was like Jesus Christ. And then you put
his lights out, I was like wow. Because
people think when people see a guy who
can strike like you do, they kind of
forget about the ground game. You know,
they forget that your ground game is
very elite, too, you know, which is
really interesting because you you you
tend to put people in categories of
danger, but with you it's all danger.
Like you you're you have a a very
wellbalanced game, you know, which is
unusual. Like Pereira, for instance,
doesn't have a balanced game. you know,
his game is he's going to connect and
you're going to wake up, you know,
that's that's all it is. His his game is
kickboxing, but your game is like it's
everything. It's all over the place, you
know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight.
It's it's everywhere. It's stand up.
It's the ground. It's comprehensive.
It's like George St. Pierre when he was
in his prime. It was coming from all
different angles. You never knew if he
was going to take you down. You didn't
know if he was going to strike with you.
It was all your mind was overwhelmed
with possibilities, which is, in my
opinion, what I like to watch. That's
what I like the most. A guy who can do
everything. I love specialists. I love
like Damen Maya because when Damen Mia
would get you, who'd he clinch you?
Like, oh, you're [ __ ] Back, you're
[ __ ] To this day, the one fight that
drives me the most crazy where a referee
[ __ ] it up was Kamaro Usman and Damen
Mia. Cuz in the first round, Damen Mia
had Camaro Usman's back standing up, had
one leg laced, had his back, but it was
taking too long and the referee
separated them. And I'm like, you
[ __ ] He's so close. He's so
close. This is it. Look at this [ __ ]
Like Camaro Usman's in deep [ __ ] here.
He's in deep [ __ ] here. And the referee
[ __ ] separated
him. This is crazy. He's doing this.
This referee This drives me nuts. Go
back it up a little bit. Back it up a
little bit because it's before this.
It's before this. So like when once he
finally secures it go a little bit
before
that. A little bit before a little bit
before little bit before.
Maybe do it do it right from the moment
where they they clinch up. Okay. Right
here. So as soon as he clinches up and
he ties that leg as soon as he gets his
hands together. Camaro is in deep [ __ ]
right here. Deep [ __ ] Camaro has one
loss on his record and that's by rear
naked choke. And now he's grappling with
one of the best to ever do it. To this
day, this [ __ ] me up. This is one of
the reasons why I hate when they
separate fighters. I hate when they
stand people up and I hate when they
separate fighters. This is a huge
mistake here by this referee because
you've got one of the greatest ground
specialists of all time. Do do you think
that he was the most dangerous guy in in
the ground? Yes. In in his in his prime.
In his prime, he he dominated people.
Oh. Oh god. This is so close, man.
Camaro's in real trouble here. The way
his arm is compromised behind his back.
He's [ __ ] here. You got to get out of
this. You can't get separated just cuz
the crowd's booing. The referee's like
too involved. Get the [ __ ] out of there.
Get out of there and let him work
because if he gets to the ground
tomorrow might be [ __ ] here. And
there's two minutes to work. There's
plenty of time to this day. That drives
me nuts. He's doing something very
interesting there with the with the
butterfly. Yes. With that left
butterfly. Yeah. He's constantly keeping
you off base. And you know that if you
make any mistakes here, that right hook
is coming over. The arm's coming over
the top. As soon as he lets go Yes. So,
as soon as he lets go of that arm, that
arm that he's got trapped, that arm that
he's got trapped with his over with uh
his left arm, as soon as Kamaru is if he
gets that arm over the top of the
shoulder, Camaro's [ __ ] man. This is
a terrible spot to be. And for the
referee to separate them and not let him
work. I was talking to Matt Sarah about
it the other day and he was like, "Yes,
he [ __ ] them." Yeah, he [ __ ] him.
They did. They [ __ ] him. Then Camaro
wins this fight and then, you know, I
watched this fight. The world changes.
It changes because this could have been
a loss and then Camaro could have been
back to the drawing board. It's a bad
situation to be in with a ground. See,
look. Now he has this advantage of being
able to stand up again. like why why
does he have this advantage? Why why you
should be back where you were? There's
no reason to separate those guys.
Referee mistakes are crazy. You know,
like there's there's moments in fights
where referees make mistakes where a
fighter's whole career just changes,
just flashes before their eyes. The
other day also something happened in the
in in the paper in in the car with with
Dan Eager. Yes. Yes. I don't know why he
stopped the fight and yes that that was
a bad decision too. That was bad as
well. Same thing. Sean Woodson. Yeah, I
think he would win the fight anyways,
but he didn't had to stop the fight. It
was a bad stoppage. It was a bad
stoppage. Yeah. Yeah, there's bad
stoppages, Matt. I mean, it happens. It
happened to Jared Canineer. Jared
Cananeer had a bad stoppage. Uh I guess
uh who was that against? Was it Emov?
The worst
tappage, the Robbie Lawler against Ben
Ascarin. Oh yeah, that was the worst.
That was the worst one. That was the
worst one. They thought he was out and
he wasn't out. I was so excited for that
fight. Robbie was beating the [ __ ] out
of him too before that headlock. Yeah,
that was terrible. That was a bad
stoppage. Yeah, there's been some bad
stuff. But you know, look, the referees
have the second hardest job in the
sport. The first hardest job in the
sport. Yeah, here it is. This is Jared
Cananeer and Amov. So he gets Look at
that right there. That's crazy. That's a
crazy stoppage. He stopped the fight.
Why? Yes. No. Yeah. Look at this. He got
hurt. He got hurt, but he's covering up.
And by the way, Jared Caner can [ __ ]
take it, man. He comes back. Jared Caner
came back against Rodriguez in his last
fight. He was hurt way worse than this.
And he came back to score a knockout.
But that was a crazy stoppage. It just,
you know, like I said, referees have the
second hardest job. Fighters have the
first hardest job. Second hardest job is
being a referee. Because those moments
when you make a decision like ah, you
can't take it back. The fight's over.
That's true. It's terrible. It's hard to
be a referee. Yeah, it is. And then
there's the judging. Some judges. The
judging. Yeah. How do they also
Something that drives me crazy. It's
like,
how do they keep having the same bad
judges come back again? That's what's
crazy because the UFC has no control of
the judges. The judges are all
established by the athletic commissions.
Yeah. So sometimes you get great judging
and it's like, "Oh, the judges are good
tonight. These are good decisions." And
sometimes you get, "What the [ __ ] is
going on?" Yeah. Sometimes judges are
horrible. There's horrible. Doesn't make
any sense. You never know if they
give you more points for wrestling, for
striking, for defending, right? It's
crazy. Well, some judges just aren't
qualified, right? They don't have a
martial arts experience. They don't they
don't have a background, you know? They
just learned how to judge that. You
can't I don't think you can do that.
It's like I don't speak Spanish, but if
you taught me some Spanish and then I
was judging Spanish, would I with you
know what I'm saying? Like crazy. I'm
not qualified, right? You are not,
right? So, if you have a guy who doesn't
really understand who's got the dominant
position, like maybe you see a [ __ ]
guillotine that has no chance, it's not
like they never fought. It's they not
even never trained. Right. Exactly. Most
of them. I remember early on in the UFC,
one of the judges
turned to one of the uh people next to
this person. It was a woman. She turns
to this person. He goes, "What is he
doing?" No way. Yeah. Yeah. What is he
doing? Someone was trying to get a
kamura and she's like, "What is he
doing?" She didn't know what a kamura
was. So, how did they get there? They
were boxing judges. So, the boxing
judges, they started using them for MMA
fights with no martial arts experience
at all. Never never stepped on the mat,
never put in a mouthpiece, never got
punched in the face.
That's crazy. That's crazy. They don't
know how it works. And it's they're
judging at a professional world
championship level at the highest level.
It's crazy. It's crazy. I think they
should have more judges. Let Let me ask
you something. What do you think was the
the decay of success of the UFC? Like it
was Dana White, it was the matchmakers,
it was the fighters, it was the
promotion. What it was? I think the big
thing was the Ultimate Fighter. I think
everybody kind of agrees with that. The
Ultimate Fighter reality show. What what
made the UFC huge was that first season
of the reality show because this was
2005. So reality shows were really
popular back then. this is, you know,
Survivor and Fear Factor and there's all
these reality shows and Big Brother and
so they had this reality show that
people are watching with fighters and
then they have the finale and in the
finale Forest Griffin fights Stephan
Bonner and it's such a crazy fight that
people are just to telling their friends
the the the ratings were going up as the
fight went on and you know the Fertittas
the people that owned the UFC before
this uh current company they were in the
hole $40
million and they just kept losing money
and they said, "Listen, this is the last
they were going to sell the UFC at one
point in time." And then they got to
this point where they're like, "Look,
let's just try this one more thing.
Let's just try this one more thing." And
they they did this this reality show and
the reality show worked. And then 2005
and then they had Chuck Liddell. And
Chuck Liddell was the perfect poster boy
for this new cage fighting thing. This
[ __ ] maniac with a mohawk and a
tattoo on his head and he's just
crushing everybody, you know? He was a
perfect guy because the fights were so
exciting and he had this insane style.
This insane almost like Michael Chandler
style but better. Entertaining style.
Very very entertaining. Just warrior. He
was a good boxer. Good striker. Fast
hands. Yeah. Fast hands. Vicious
knockout power. And he was a wrestler,
but he didn't wrestle anybody. He was a
heavyweight. Light heavyweight. Yeah.
Big guy. Yeah. He was light heavyweight.
Big guy. KO's people with one punch and
you know it was perfect for the sport
because like he was so exciting and he
looked the part. He was like a maniac
and after we'd win he'd go and run
around the cage. It was so exciting. So
exciting. He was the poster boy. He was
the guy. He was the guy that put the
sport on the map because people would
watch him and they go gez. Yeah. That
time timeline of MMA was so fun with
Rampage Jackson also. Oh yeah. And then
when Rampage KO'ed him, you know, he
became the man and you know, and then
Jon Jones comes along and you know, it's
like the sport. That's what's crazy
about John, right? Jon's been dominant
now for like what 15 16 years. Yeah.
That's nuts, man. That's why I I say
he's the best. He's the goat. He's the
goat. He's the goat. I don't know how
how they don't put him as the number one
poundfor-pound. He's the number one
pound for pound. You know, it's just
because he doesn't fight as often as
Islam. You know, Islam has defended his
title more recently, more often against
top flight competition, whereas John is,
you know, John takes a year off, does a
year off here, a year off there. But
when you look at the overall record, the
overall career, he's the greatest of all
time. But when I when I talk about like
just technique, you got to listen, you
got to think about Mighty Mouse, too,
man. Mighty Mouse in his prime was a bad
[ __ ] man. He would do [ __ ] to
guys like s when he suplexed Ray Borg
and caught him with an armbar in the
middle of the air and finished him. You
don't think so? I see your face. I see
your face. No, no, no. It's not like But
I don't
know. I never was a big fan of him. No.
No. Never.
I think when you call yourself a Mickey
Mouse, mighty Mighty Mouse Mighty
Mouse. So, I always thought that he was
a Mickey Mouse. I'm like, "Bro, how the
[ __ ] you calling yourself a Mickey
Mouse?" No, he was a good fighter. He
was a good fighter. He was a very
technical fighter. He dominated the
whole division. How many times he
defended his belt? Like, many times. 14
times. Many times. He [ __ ] a lot of
people up. But then there's an issue
where the quality of the competition in
the 125 pound division back then was not
at the level that it is now. Like
Pantosia, he's a bad [ __ ] I
would have loved to see Aleandre
Pantosia versus Mighty Mouse in their
prime. Pantosia is a [ __ ] animal,
man. That guy's a [ __ ] animal.
There's a guy coming up in
125. He fought in the last pay-per-view
in London. His last name is Kavana in
125. He's going to be a problem in that
division. He's very skillful fighter.
Well, I think like all weight classes,
um, now you have the best fighters of
all time because we see guys from the
Dana White Contender Series now that are
coming along that that enter into the
UFC for their first fight. And you see
these guys like, Jesus Christ, this guy
looks like he has 15 pro fights in the
UFC. They look elite. You know, that
that's a cool program. Also, a Dana
White Contender Series. That's something
cool because they have some story behind
them before they get to the UFC. Mhm.
And that's cool. And actually they make
a good matchmaker matchmaking also to
for that fight. I I like to see
sometimes Dana White contenders series
within some fight nights. Yeah. You get
to see guy Well, that's where we found
Sugar Shawn Omali. you get to see guys
uh I prefer that to the Ultimate Fighter
because I don't want to watch all the in
the house [ __ ] and all the games
that they play. I don't care about all
that. I don't care. I just want to see
him fight. Not anymore. But before it
was very entertaining in the beginning.
In the early days, but the I mean now
they're on like season 2000. Like who
[ __ ] there's been so many seasons
like I can't even keep track. I forget
who won you know there's so many
seasons. But the my point is that the
caliber of new guys when they're just
entering the like Mauricio Rufi, perfect
example. Yeah. You see this guy first
fight in the UFC lightweight, right?
Yeah. He's [ __ ]
huge. You see this guy first fight in
the UFC, you're like, whoa, this guy is
elite already. You know, same thing with
Jean Silva. Elite already. Like these
guys, they're entering into the sport at
a very Carlos Pates, same thing. like
right away like you're seeing like a
very high level right away and uh I just
think that because there's so many guys
like you to watch there's so many guys
like you know Hamzad and all these
people you get to see elite
talent. So these young fighters that are
coming up they have a higher level they
yeah a higher level to aspire to. That's
true. Now like the the sport is growing
that the talents are better than before.
Yeah. Because the the sport has
developed so much that right now you
have so much experience. You can learn
so much about the game. Like even in
YouTube, you go on YouTube, you can
learn everything by yourself. I think in
the future guys like you will be
everywhere. There will be only guys like
you at world championship level. I don't
think there'll be any specialists
anymore. I think there'll be guys who
are elite everywhere. everywhere. This
is what what I was saying like all the
time. Now it's time for the new
generation. What's the new generation?
That if you want to want to be the best,
you have to be the best in everywhere
the the fight the fight takes the place
in the ground and the wrestling and the
striking. You have to be good everywhere
because that's how how the sport is de
developing right now. Because before
before you were good only uh in
wrestling you would take people down and
no problem you you you could become a
world champion but right now so tough so
tough the competition all the time is
higher and higher and higher and there's
more knowledge in the in the sport.
Yeah, there really is. It's um it's very
inspiring and it's very interesting
because there's no other sport where you
could go back and look at it from
1993 to 2025 and it's almost like a
completely different sport. The the
athletes are so much better than they
were. I mean, even from like 2000, go
back to 2000 and watch the sport and
then watch it today. At least in the
UFC,
it changed a lot. A lot everything. Even
the production. Oh, yeah. Everything.
everything changed everything. I mean
it's uh it's so it's so interesting
because it's the one sport also that
translates it translates to all
languages like everybody understands it
but UK is so special that because you
saw the sport growing since since
nothing and you saw so many great fights
in front of you. Yeah I'm very lucky
man. Yeah that's I feel very fortunate.
What about what about you? Like do you
have a plan where you want to retire or
you are just enjoying and you love what
you're doing? Because I I I think that
it's a I don't know. You are enjoying a
lot. Yeah. I just enjoy it. I don't
think about retiring. No. No. If Dana
White quits, I might quit. But that's
it. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually in my
contract. No. Yeah. If he leaves, I
leave. Yeah. So, in my contract, if he
leaves, I don't have to stay.
Why that? Something personal. I wouldn't
be doing it if it wasn't for him. Yeah.
Yeah. He's my friend. He talked me into
doing it. I mean, I started working for
the UFC before him. I started working
for the UFC in 1997. Uh when it was
nothing that nobody was watching. It was
we did it at a a small like a high
school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama.
You had to take a propeller plane to get
there.
Like [ __ ] scary ass planes. And u
that was the first time Vtor fought.
Okay. I was actually training at the
same gym as Vtor when Vtor made his
debut. Vtor was 19 years old and uh we
were at Carlson Gracie. Start very
young. Yeah. Yeah. We were at Carlson
Gracy's gym in Hollywood. Hollywood,
California. That's where I was training.
I just dumb luck. I was a white belt. I
just started. So you how old you were
when you started like training or you
had some relationship with the sport? Uh
well jiu-jitsu. Well martial arts I
started when I was 15. Well, I started
when I was 14, but really seriously when
I was 15, and then I competed in
Taekwondo from 15 to 21, and then I
kickboxed until I was 22. And then I was
doing comedy at the same time. And then
I realized I I was half in, half.
Something crazy about you is when I hear
you explaining some positions, I'm like,
this guy has to know how to fight, how
to do it because the way he is explain
it, I couldn't be able to to explain it.
And I'm a world champion. I know the
game, but you explain it like way better
than anyone else. I I think that you put
10 world champions together, you still
explain it much better than all of us.
Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.
Well, I learned how to explain it
because I learned how to teach people
that didn't know what was happening once
it went to the ground. Right. Cuz in the
beginning, nobody understood the ground
game. Exactly. You know, and I'm a black
belt in jiu-jitsu, so when it goes to
the ground, I I can explain what's
happening. I'm very specific.
Well, you have to be specific cuz some
people don't know. Like sometimes I'll
be watching with my wife at home. Like
we watching fights that I'm not calling
and she's like, "What's going on?" And
I'd be like, "His right arm is in
trouble right now." Like, see what see
where his elbow is now? If he can get
his elbow past this point, he's [ __ ]
I'm like, "Okay, now he's fucked." And
then I would I would I would explain it
and I I would say, "Now what he's going
to do, he's going to take his right leg.
He's going to wrap it over the top. Oh,
he's got it. Oh, he's got it." Okay.
He's going to cinch the left leg over
the top. That's it. That's it. He's
[ __ ] You're the best. Yeah. That's
it's just I it's you can't passion.
Yeah. Either you love it or you don't
love it. And if you don't love it, you
can't pretend it won't work. No one's
going to believe you. Like if you're
just a regular sports guy, say like you
call hockey and they hire you. You're
going to learn about MMA and you're
going to call MMA.
Come on. Come on. Yeah. There's no
You're not going to be able to do it
right. Of course, because you got to do
it like you like if I was calling
hockey, I'm like, "Yay, this [ __ ]
puck went in the net. Woo. I don't give
a [ __ ] I don't give a [ __ ] if the puck
goes in the net. It doesn't mean
anything to me. But when someone gets
your [ __ ] neck [ __ ] [ __ ] and you
see the guys going to tap he's tapping.
That that to me is life. That's
everything. That is like it's not just
winning. You're not just winning. You're
you killed that guy. We can see that. I
promise you. We can see your passion
every time. Like even right now I'm
here. I feel your passion. It's not like
I see it. I feel your your passion like
you passionate about what you're doing.
And that's something that I I admire
people like you. Well, I wouldn't do it
if I didn't feel that way. I don't have
to do it. I don't do it for money. I
just do it I mean, this is the only
person I work for is the UFC. Everything
else I do for myself. Everything I work
for myself. Yeah. I'm self-employed
except for the UFC. But I've been
working for them for 20
[ __ ] three years. Yeah. 23 years. 23
years. Yeah. And then before that, I did
it two years before that. So, it's 25
years total. And And when was the the
moment Maybe I'm going like too deep,
but I I wanted to ask you this like when
was the moment when you feel like I'm
succeed in life? I feel that I'm I'm
having success. And what's for you
actually success? Like how do you
describe it? Um well, I guess the moment
was when I didn't worry about success
anymore. I don't think about success. I
think about what do I enjoy doing and am
I doing it the best that I can do it?
That's what I think about. I don't
think, oh, I'm going to make more money.
Oh, I'm gonna do this and now I want to
do I want this goal and that goal. I'm
a process oriented person. I think about
the process of what I'm doing and then
the results come. So, I think like what
am I doing? Am I doing it the best that
I can do it? And if I'm not, I better I
better either quit if I don't want to do
it anymore. If I like that's why I
stopped fighting. I was there was no
money in fighting when I was fighting.
There was no money. There was no UFC.
And I was just getting brain damage for
no reason. And it was really I was I was
sparring and having [ __ ] headaches
every night. I was like, "What am I
doing with my life?" And then I would
also meet guys in the gym that were
punch drunk. And they those guys scared
the [ __ ] out of me cuz back then
everybody was stupid, too. And like in,
you know, this is 1989. Everybody was
stupid. They just beat the [ __ ] out of
each other. They didn't There was no
like sparring, you know, like technical
sparring. It was just wars. It was just
fights. Always fights. And there was no
future. And I It's still like that in in
some gyms. Yeah. A lot of gyms. A lot of
gyms. You know, some gyms are
intelligent, but there's a lot of gyms
that are stupid. I I I don't used to
spar at all. Really? Yeah. I don't spar.
Only in training camps. But I see you
spar in training camps. So, it's only in
training camps. Only in training camps.
So, when you're not in camp, what do you
do? I do like as I told you, spankings
maybe and boxing. But before I used to
go like more crazy than now before
because before I had like more ego. I
had I I wanted to pro myself like I can
knock you out. I can submit you. I can
do this and I but once like you you you
winning
fights, you're growing as a person,
you're like I don't need to prove
anything here in in in the gym. I know
what I'm able to do and the
competition is the day when I have to
fight the fight. That's the day when I'm
when I'm get paid and and that's it. I'm
not gonna going to dam damage anyone no
more because
sometimes you knock people out and then
you go back home and you feel bad. You
you're like I could not doing it right.
And he's suffering right now. I sent so
much people to the hospital. so much
people to the hospital like I'm sure
I've seen a few broken eyes
opened so much damage that right now I'm
like no no no sometimes people comes to
me like let's spar I'm like
I recommend you to know
I recommend you to not
yeah that's good advice yeah it's
interesting right it's like the your ego
can help you because your ego is what
makes You want to be great, but at a
certain point in time, you got to put a
leash on it. Yeah. You got to say, "Not
not right now, [ __ ] When I let
you go, when I say sickum, then I'm
going to let you off that leash, but not
right now." And like that's Marcelo
Garcia always used to say that about
jiu-jitsu that you have to open up your
game in the gym and don't be afraid
about being tapped. He goes, you got to
be open. You got to take chances in the
gym and learn and put yourself in bad
positions on purpose and and you might
lose training sessions, but that's not
what's important. What's important is
growing. I see a lot of guys struggling
with that. Like they don't want to lose
and train and I'm like, well, a lot of
guys never develop a guard because they
never want to be on their back. There's
a lot of guys like that. They have no
[ __ ] guard. Like, which is crazy.
It's crazy. There's black belts out
there that you get them on their back,
they look like a turtle because they
don't want to lose. Exactly. They don't
They don't know how to have to lose.
Like, if you top out, no problem. You
get better. Like, yes. H how I don't put
myself in this position. But that's the
fascinating dance of the mind that
allows someone to become a champion
versus someone to become just a good
fighter. Like whether you can figure
that out like when to put your ego on a
leash and when to be able to look at
yourself objectively like what you're
doing with separating all of your
disciplines. I think is very important.
I think that's a a very interesting way
that you put it because I think it's a
very intelligent way to approach it.
Like get very good at your boxing, get
very good at your Muay Thai, get very
good at your jiu-jitsu, but do it
different. Do it separately. I like
every week, every Sunday, I sit down and
I do my schedule by myself. Like I'm I'm
on Monday, I'm going to do boxing at the
from this hour to this, then I'm going
to do afternoon. And how do you decide
what you're going to do? depends of how
I feel what I want to what I want to do.
What do you want to work on what I and
and what I want to work on and where I
feel like I have to develop something.
What I want to do
what's what do I feel in reality? It's
not like all the time um I'm going to do
this because I have to do it. No, I
don't have to do anything. I choose to
do it because I enjoy it. Every time I
go to training, I enjoy it. I don't do
it because I feel forced. Sometimes in
training camp, yes, I feel forced
because I feel tired. I don't have food
in my body. I don't have any energy and
I have to do it because I'm forced. But
outside the training camp, I enjoy it.
Even if I retire tomorrow, I would keep
training like that because that's
something that I enjoy. And you said
something very interesting before that
like right now
I'm in in in the moment of my life where
everything I do, I do it because I enjoy
it. I don't do anything be to make
anyone's h anyone happy. Uh I don't live
a life dreaming to have another one. I
just enjoy the moment I'm living right
now. That's so important. That is so
important. It's so important to be
satisfied with your life. So important
to just
just live in the moment. It's so hard
for people to do. It's so hard for
people to do especially if you [ __ ]
off too many times. you just like made
too many mistakes and slacked off and
lazy and this is the best moment we have
right now. Right now. This is it. The
best moment. This is who we are. Yeah,
it is. It is. No one knows what's going
to happen tomorrow. So, and you know
what's really important? hearing a guy
like you say this, hearing a guy like
you say this to to young people out
there that are listening, they're just
not sure like how to approach life
because the way you think about life and
the way you decide to approach life can
change your the whole direction of your
future. 100% 100%. And so a young guy is
probably listening guaranteed there are
people not just one many young people
are listening to you talk right now. I'm
sure there many people come to you like
Joe tell me the secret. Yeah, there are
no secret. There's no bottom for the
elevator. Exactly. Everything in life
you get step by step. The slowest the
fastest way to get where you want to be.
I was talking to David Gogggins about
that. You know who David Gogggins is?
Yeah, of course. [ __ ] maniac. David
Gogggins said there's no finish line.
He's like it never ends. Like it never
ends. Never ends. You never make it. You
ever feel like you make it? I'm like you
never make it. There's no making it.
It's [ __ ] One day you you don't
think about it anymore and you just
every day you're just trying to get
better. Of course. And if you don't feel
like that, it's not fun. If you're not
really trying to do something difficult
and aspire to greatness and just trying
to do your best all the time, you don't
have satisfaction in your life 100%.
Everything. Some people thinks that like
you accomplish something and that's
going to make you happy. That's a
[ __ ] Well, you know, I think also
there's the poison of social media
because social media poisons people to
think that one day I'm going to make it.
I'm going to be like Conor McGregor
driving my yacht around. Like those
videos are so bad for you. Those videos
of people like, "Look at me. Look at my
watch. Look at my diamonds. Look at
this. Look at my house. Look at this.
Look at these girls. Don't you wish you
were me?" Everyone is showing you the
best part of their life. No one is going
to show you how they are struggling, the
problems they are facing in the in the
daily basis. I mean like no one is going
to show you that. No one's going to show
you, look, I have a pimple here in my
face. No, I'm going to use a filter to
Yeah. hide that. Yeah. It's It's not
good. It's not good for young people,
that's for sure. Because they aspire to
all the wrong things. You ask young
people today what do they want? Most of
them just want to be famous.
They want to be famous and they think
that money makes them rich and you
skills make you rich, not the money. If
you don't have the skills and you don't
have the mindset, you're going to keep
poor all the time. Not only that, you're
not going to have the satisfaction of
knowing you got really good at
something. There's something about
getting really good at something that
gives you a deep satisfaction that's not
available anywhere else. If you just win
the lottery, those are the most
depressed people in the world. They all
go broke. They win the lottery and then
everybody wants money from them and then
they feel empty and hollow and they
don't know what to do with themselves
and now they don't have any goals
because they have a hundred million
dollars in the bank. They don't know
what the [ __ ] to do. Yeah. But in
reality they don't have any ability.
They don't have nothing to enjoy with
you. I say that success comes from not
worrying about money. Success doesn't
come from making a lot of money. Success
comes from now I don't have to think
about that. Money is not a thing. Now I
think about what am I doing? What am I
doing? I want to be the best parent I
can be. I want to be the best friend
that I can be. I want to be everything I
do. I want to do it to the best of my
abilities. Yeah. Becoming the best
person you could be. Yeah. The best
person you can be. When I was a kid, my
martial arts instructor told me this
that I'll never forget and I say it all
the time. Martial arts are a vehicle for
developing your human potential. Through
that struggle, through that difficult
thing, you will learn how to be better
at everything.
100%. 100%. 100% that's that's what I
think life is about and that's why
martial arts are so exciting to me. You
know, people think, "Oh, you like
violence. You like this." Like, that's
not it. Like, that's why I don't like
slap fighting. I think it's stupid. You
stand in front of each other, smack each
other in the head. I want to see a
guy enter into a cage fully prepared
with skills against another guy fully
prepared with skills. I always describe
martial arts, mixed martial arts in
particular, as highlevel problemolving
with dire physical consequences. That's
what it is. It's problem solving with
dire physical consequences. That's so
cool. Yeah, that's what it is. People
most of time, they didn't understand
what's behind a fighting game. It's not
like only violence. You have to prepare
yourself. You have to be smart. You have
to be you have to work smart smarter
than the the other guy you you are going
to face. There's so much factors that
it's going to play out that that day.
It's so much sacrifices that someone has
to make before getting in in inside that
octagon. It's not only
fighting. It's more than that. I don't
know. I don't it's
I love that. I don't know. Most of the
people before they used to see fighting
as something very violent in in Spain.
They hate it. Right now it's becoming
bigger and bigger and bigger and they're
starting to love that. And I and I saw
that since the day I started because I
used to say to the people like 10 years
ago in Spain, what you doing? I'm
fighting. Ah, don't do
that. Start learning something. Start
studying. I'm like, I'm
starting. Everyone choose a a career in
his life. Someone wants to be a doctor,
someone wants to be a constructor,
someone wants to be this or that. I want
to be a fighter. Yeah. And I have to
learn to be a fighter also. But by your
example, by being a true champion and by
living the way you live and by
performing the way you perform, you will
change people's opinions and they will
see it and they will say, "Oh, this is
different. This is not what I thought it
was. This is something special. I hope
so. For sure, brother. For sure. It's in
the cards. Well, listen, my friend.
Thank you very much for being here. I
appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan
and I can't wait to see you inside the
Octagon again. And uh all the best, Joe.
Thank you very much, bro. Has been a big
pleasure for me to be with you. Thanks
very much. All right. Bye, everybody.
Bye.
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