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JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria
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Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night. All day. Well, my man, what's happening? Pleasure. No, please. My pleasure. Thank you for having me here. Pleasure. My honor. I'm uh I'm very excited about this new thing you're doing. I'm very excited about your journey into the lightweight division. Something that I feel very excited also about that. What are you walking around at? Like what do you walk around at when you were fighting at 45? I'm I'm going to tell you in kilos. Okay. I walk around 80 82. What is that Jamie? Like 16 170 75 175 180 180 most. Okay. So you were losing quite a bit of weight. 35 lbs. 25 30 lbs. Like yeah, that's a lot hard. That was the hardest part of my training of the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying at all the last couple of fights that that I had because it's like I had to become more professional on the way cut than in a fight game, you know, and it was taking a lot of time and energy from me and I'm like my dream is to to become a world champion. I want to end up this this chapter that I have that I started in 145 and now it's time to to really enjoy it and I'm very excited about that. I already have one fight in 155. J Herbert. Jai Herbert. Yeah. I really wish the UFC would eliminate weight cutting. I really wish there was a way. Why does to do that? I don't. It's sanctioned cheating that everybody has to do. It's like you're, you know, I mean, if you're saying you're 180 pounds, you're not really 145, right? So, it's crazy that you're the 145 pound champion, but you're 180 pound man. It's kind of nuts. Yeah. But but at the same time if you go to the next weight class you are playing with a disadvantage because the guy in the next division is cutting a lot of weight. Mhm. So if you don't do that at the end of the day you walk inside the octagon and you are the smaller guy. Yeah. Like Islam Islam Akachev is huge. I mean that guy how he makes 155 is I don't understand it. Every time I stand next to him I'm like how are you 155? How much do you think he he walks around? He's got to be 190ish in the 190 range. He's got to be. That's what he looks like to me. I never saw home in a person. Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and big. I mean, he's he's not a small He's not 155B man. It's just so silly. The whole thing is just it's it's an it's an old thing that we kept for no reason. And I feel like they should blow all the weight classes. I've talked to Dana about this. I actually talked to Ari Emanuel about this when they first bought the UFC. I said, "The first thing you should do is get rid of this. get rid of the weight cutting and just add a bunch of weight classes, you know, because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85 and then 85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps are too big. 20 pounds nuts. I would do something with the with the drug test. Like if I go to your home to to to make the drug test, I put you in in in the scale. If you walk around like 8% or 10% over your weight, I would obligate you to go in the in the in the next weight class. Just to give you an example, for example, if you're fighting a 100 kilograms, I'm gonna say in kilograms, and I go to your house, I do the the drug test, I put you in the scale, and you weigh this 110 kilograms, I would force you to go to the next weight class. Yeah, I think that's realistic. That makes sense. And I think that they should have more weight classes cuz the weight class gaps are just too large. Oh, maybe that's an option also. Yeah, I mean at the lower weight classes it's 10 lbs which seems reasonable but really at the lower weight classes, you know, when you look at like 125 and 135, it could easily be 5 lbs. 5 lbs is reasonable, but Dana doesn't want like 12 weight classes or 12 15 20 weight classes like boxing has. He wants it to be like the UFC has now, but it's not enough. I don't really know the real reason behind that, but I would love to talk to Dana and ask him this these questions also because it's kind of dangerous also for the guys and many times you put on a show for the people and you don't really know if they going to make the weight right. Exactly. And they're going to be compromised. I mean, there's a lot of guys who fight just deeply dehydrated from the day before and even though they've rehydrated themselves, their brain's not rehydrated yet. Exactly. It's not smart and it it's not it's also not necessary. Like why would you It would make for better fights. Why would you want someone to be physically compromised 24 hours before they're fighting? It doesn't make any sense at all. But at the same time, the way cut takes something out from you. That's crazy. It's like putting a dog inside the room for 20 days without any food and you open the door and you put him in a different room with full of food. It's like the same thing, you know, when I'm cutting the weight, I'm like I'm a different person. I I feel that I'm like my mind goes different. My thought process is different. Everything is so different at at that moment. I'm not so kind when I'm cutting weight. Yeah. More focused, dialed in. Exactly. Dominic Cruz says it's a good thing. He says uh he likes weight cutting because it gets you dialed in. He says it gets you completely dialed in for a fight. How much he cuts? I don't think he cuts that much 35. That's why he likes it. Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it, you know, cuz when he was fighting at 85, he was weighing in at 85 and then fighting in the sk in the cage at 225 226, which is crazy. I don't know how how that guy was making 185. That's crazy because he's huge and he's so tall. Well, how about Drius Duplo? How the [ __ ] is he 185? That guy's huge. Yeah, that's huge. Also, there's a lot of these guys like, but it's it's very deceptive because the general public thinks that's a 185 pound man, but he's not. Drius is probably when he gets into the cage, he's well into the 220s. He's a big guy. I don't know in what way he he walks around, but he's huge guy also. And comes when he was fighting in 170. Yeah, he was big also. He was almost killing himself making the weight was Anthony Rumble Johnson. Do you remember Anthony? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anthony, I ran into him once in between fights. And I said, "How much do you weigh?" He said, "230." Wow. He was fighting 170. He He switched How many weight classes? He started from 170. He went to like light like heavy weight and then he end up fighting in in the heavyweight division, right? He went to middleweight and didn't make weight. He missed weight and lost that fight and then he fought heavyweight outside the UFC and then came back and fought light heavyweight in the UFC. You know, something similar happened to me also. I started fighting in the bantamweight division. Really? Yeah. Before the UFC like in cage warriors when I was fighting in the cage warriors I actually missed the weight also when I was was fighting for the belt. I was I I was fighting at that time in the banterweight division. Then I I kept fighting in in the featherweight and now I'm in the lightweight. I hope I I don't end up fighting in the welterweight. How old were you when you first started fighting in MMA? You asking? Or or in Well, all when did you first start martial arts with four years old? My my dad put me with my brother in in judo. Then we went to Georgia. We kept practicing with the Gra the Garmon wrestling and then we moved to Spain when I was 15 years old and completely by chance we find the gym and we started training the the MMA, the mixed martial arts. Totally by chance. Totally by chance. Wow. So, were you a mixed martial arts fan at all? I didn't know anything about the mixed martial arts. I didn't know anything anything about the BJJ, the ground game, any [ __ ] thing. Wow. So we went to to Spain and we wanted to keep with the same discipline as we we were doing in Georgia with the Groman wrestling but they don't have the culture of of that sport. So we were a little bit sad you know because we wanted that sport. My brother was really really good on that. So my mom was uh working and he saw a man with the cauliflower ears. He went to she went to to him and she asked him like what you doing because my kids want to to do wrestling. Do you train in in some gym or or something and he said no I'm doing the BJJ bring your kids and I'm going to I'm going to show you the gym. She came to home and my dad and and my mom and they started to convince us like there's a gym they are practicing like jujitsu MMA all the sports and um I was like but what the [ __ ] is this? I don't know what's this. And my dad start started to show me the videos of the Gracies. He he he told me like this one of the best sports in the world right now. You are going to guys love it this and that. And at that day, we went to the gym and I fell in love since the first second. Well, it's actually a great base to start out from. Starting with judo and then greor roaming wrestling and then going into jiu-jitsu. It's really great because you already have an established grappling base. It's great. Of course, my recommendation for everyone is if you want to have a career in in in MMA, you should start with wrestling because for me personally, because this is my personal experience that it's much easier to learn in the future boxing than start with boxing and learn the wrestling. Really? For me, yes, I think so. And I saw that in in in many people. But how old were you when you first started boxing? 17 years old. That's fairly old. Like when you think about how high level your striking is. Of course it is. Yeah. But when I started I was like, okay, I'm very good with the wrestling. I can take people down. I can control them. I have a great ground game. But what if I go to the highest competition and I I find some some adversities. I have to be able to fight in the in in in the striking also. So I have to de develop my game in the striking and I start from from from that and I start with my brother. We were like the the first people to go inside the gym and the last ones to live it. So we were studying every day all day like so obsessed. We were watching like all the videos of Julio Chavez of Canelo all that practicing all the techniques and then putting in interaction the sparrings and all that and I was like finding my style. what that that I really like to do. Well, it's interesting because Spain doesn't have a long history of mixed martial arts. Mhm. So, like you are the first champion from Spain in the UFC. So, it's it's very interesting that you you got in there as a young man and there wasn't really like a big established community yet. So, I was the first guy to to get into the top 15, the top 10, the top five, and then the the world champion. We we had a guy in in Spain who fought in in in the UFC. I don't know if you remember him. Enrique Wasabi. Okay. He did the Ultimate Fighter. Then we have another guy also Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job also. But before that, we didn't have anyone in the UFC. So when you first started training, were there amateur competitions in Spain? Yeah, there was amateur MMA and I made three fights in amateur and then I started with a professional game. I did four fights in Spain and at some point it was so difficult to find a fight for me that I had to start to travel in the European territory to to to get a fight. Yeah. And everything started from that. But it's fascinating because a lot of world champions generally well there's a good percentage of them come from an established gym that already has elite highle competition but it seems like that's not the case with your gym. No it wasn't. So I don't know I don't know what was the reason to be honest to to came this far. I don't know. Well that's always the question with champions like are champions born or are they bred? Because there's there's gyms that develop like Marvin Haggler came out of the Petronelli brothers gym in Brockton, Massachusetts. They're not known for world championship fighters, but Marvin Haggler is one of the greatest of all time. It's like there was something inside of him that made him excel. The same thing. There was something inside me that made me the person who I am today. Did you know when you first started training, when you first started doing MMA, that you were going to fight professionally? Yeah, since the first day. So my mindset always was the the same exactly the same as I have right now. I'm like if someone did it, I also can do it and if no one did it, I can be the first one to do it. This is the mindset I I I always had and it's like yeah that I think that the champion are they are not born they are made also because you can burn in a extraordinary uh situation but you can end up so bad you know and the opposite also you can burn in a I don't know crazy situation and end up in a paradise. Yeah, it's it's such an interesting thing because they all champions are not the same type of person either. You know, you got guys like Sugar Sean Ali who's silly and smokes weed and has crazy hair. And then you got guys like Alex Pereira, very stoic, you know, very serious. It's everyone's different. He's very serious. I met him in in in in Sydney. I went with my bride because he made his UFC debut and yeah, he was kind of quiet like Yeah, he's intense. Yeah, he's so serious. Yeah, he's intense. I remember watching him fight for the first time in glory in kickboxing and I was like, Jesus Christ, I just watched the way he kos people. I was like, this guy is different. Huge, great. Crazy power. His power is just ridiculous. I mean, like hit guys with Who do you love watching fight? I love watching you fight. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a Giant fan. Um I like all styles, man. I'm fascinated by the the game in all different styles. I mean, I I like watching all the champions. I mean, I love watching Morab fight. Wow. He's a [ __ ] animal. He's the machine. I love him. He's an animal. I mean, I just don't understand that cardio. His cardio is [ __ ] crazy. It's like superhuman cardio. And I'm going to tell you something about Morab that surprised me that maybe you see him in the mat and he's not the most special guy, the most skillful guy in the room, but I don't know what happens to him when he gets inside that octagon. Wow. That man is a [ __ ] machine. He's a [ __ ] machine. I'm I'm a right now. You ask me who I love to to watch fight. That's my rap. I would pay take my money when he's fighting in the pay-per-view right now at this. I'm like, bro, take my money. I love Umar, too. Umar, you know, that fight was incredible. That was one of the best fights I've ever seen because they're so skillful, so high level. And, you know, to see him make Umar start to wilt, to see Umar like you see the wobble when guys start getting fatigued. You see this like a little bit of like loose movement in the way, you know, you see that. Morab had none. Zero. just shooting like like he was in the first round in the fifth round because this is what I exactly think that happens to Omar because you see uh Morav from outside like you are sitting and you you are seeing him training or fighting and you're like he's not going to be able to take me down he's not going to be able to do that to me and then you get inside the doctor with him and everything changes. Yeah. It's like you have a a machine in front of you who has like non-stop. Daniel Cormier went to visit him right after he won the title. Dam Daniel Cormier went to his house on Sunday. Yeah. Morab wasn't home. He was out running. Yeah. He won the title on Saturday. Daniel went to his house on Sunday. Morab's out running. Wow. He's crazy. He He came He came to Spain also to help me once when I had the training come. I was supposed to fight with Moser. He came to to to help me. Crazy. We the same exact exact team. We we were like finishing the training. He was going for a run. He was going like actually to to his house running. Yeah. There's no shortcuts. No, there's no shortcuts. No shortcuts. No shortcuts. But, you know, like to answer your question, I'm you know, I'm fascinated by all the different styles. You know, I I like watching everybody fight. You know, I love Vulcanowski. You know, I love watching him fight this past weekend. And he's so great. He I was so happy for him this this Saturday because he really deserve deserve it to get the that title back. Does it bother you to see someone win your title? No, not that. You good? I'm good. Like I'm good. I'm good. Happy for him. You established you won. You defended. I won. I defended. Right now I have completely different challenge in front of me. I wish him nothing but the best. And to everyone like I wish the best wins all the time. That's great. Yeah. I don't care. What about Patty Pimpblelet though? He He did a great job. He did a great job. He did what he had to do. He did. But for me, it's like I'm I'm going to be completely honest with you. For me, Chandler, he never was a extraordinary fighter. He was like average level of fighter like who did he beat like in the UFC? Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson. Oh, Dan Hooker. Yeah, Dan Hooker is a good fighter. He just he caught well Dan Hooker had that war with Dustin Porier that and Dustin Porier is a very good fighter. How many losses he has? He's got a few losses. Yeah, he's a good fighter. Very entertaining fighter like for the fans. He's a wild dog. Yeah, he's a dog. He he he goes inside that that that octagon and he fights. But yeah, I think he's on a resurgence. I think, you know, he had a skid for a while and now he's rebuilding himself and he's on a He's smiling. Look at you, [ __ ] So, he beat Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson when he was like almost four years old. I think honestly we got Michael Chandler after his prime. Um, if you go watch Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez and Bellator, those were [ __ ] crazy fights. Crazy fights. Yeah, but at the end of the day, you see wars. It's a very competitive fight. Yes. You see almost a bar fight. You see two guys in the middle of the octagon exchanging punches, but you don't see technique. You don't see skills. You see a great fight because as a fans, it's a very entertaining to watch fights like that, but if you really think about it, it's like you don't see skills in that fight. You don't see someone trying to take you down, control you, some great submissions, great transitions, I don't know, striking. You you you see a guy that he's like looking for a combination. He's looking for his moment creating a spaces. You don't see like I don't know. I see what you're saying. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. 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I see what you're saying. But you Balal I think gets too much bad rap. Like Balah when he beat up Shawn Brady, that was very entertaining. And Shawn Brady is very good. You know, I think Bal just does what it takes to win. And when you're in a div and also like he didn't really have a background in wrestling at the level that a lot of these guys did. He had to develop that over time. Yeah, but you there are two type of champions for me. Like there are champions who prepare themselves to win and there are the other ones who prepare themselves to dominate. I prepare myself not to win because I know that I'm going to win. I I want to win in fashion. I want to dominate. I want to more people. I want people to be entertained. I want people to be like, "Wow, I'm happy that I spend the money this Saturday night going watch this guy. That's what I want." Yeah. Someone was talking about that recently on Instagram. I don't remember who uh the the coach was, but he was talking about levels of athletes that there's there's people that train to compete, there's people that train to win, and then there's people that train to dominate, to be the greatest of all time. Exactly. And there's there's a different mindset. There's a never satisfied, always improving mindset that the great champions have all the time. I want the people to be entertained all the time. Like when actually I was I started with the with with the MMA. I was like recording myself all the sparrings and after that I was rewatching my my my sparring. I was like will I pay my money to watch this? What do I have to to to change in my game to be more entertained? And this is how I was like looking myself all the time. I was very crit critical with with myself. And this is how I develop and develop and develop. And all the time I go inside the octagon. I don't go there just to win. You know what I mean? I want everyone to be like, "Wow, what he just did how he did it. He was the greatest of all time and he made it made him look easy." Yeah. This is what I want. I want to change the game. you know the people to to I want you to say your friend watch this guy and learn something. Yeah. Well, mission accomplished so far, right? So far so good. And now uh a new journey into the lightweight division, you know. Um I don't understand why they won't just book you and Islam. There's many times that I wish I was running the UFC. I would change so many different things. That would be one of the first things I would change. I'm like, "Book that fight. Book that fight right away." You would do some fights also in Mars. I'm I'm sure I would probably go with the starship. I have I got some wacky ideas. I don't even think they should fight in a cage. Yeah. Yeah. I think the cage is an unnecessary um it's an I think it's an unnecessary element in fighting like to push someone against something or to be able to get up from something. I don't think it's necessary. I think they should be in like a basketball court. like a basketball court that's matted up, have a big space, have a warning track where you can't if you go outside the warning track too many times, you you could lose points. Okay? And um so when someone takes you down, you have to actually get up. I also think at the end of a round, like say if you got a guy mounted at the end of the round, you start the next round mounted on him. Of course. Yeah. I don't think because why would you give him the advantage of getting up when he never got up? He never got up. Never got You have to earn a get up. You have to stand up by yourself. I love it. I I never thought about that, actually. No. No standups ever. Ever. No stand-ups. Unless someone commits a foul. Like if someone commits a foul and you want to stand them up and take a point away, that's fine. But if the guy's in the bottom and he commits a foul, if a guy's on the bottom, he gouges someone's eyes on purpose. Take a point away. Put him right back in the same spot. Wow. Because otherwise, like say if you're fighting a guy like Alex Pereira who's never taking anybody down, he's just going to strike with you, right? Okay. Why would you let him back up again and have the advantage of him standing up again? The beginning of the round, he starts standing up again. Now you got to take him down again. But also, you don't think that it's it's a part of the show? It is a part of the show. But I don't give a [ __ ] about that. Yeah, I'm a I mean, I'm a hardcore fan. I'm a purist. I think it should be about fighting, about elite fighting. And elite fighting is you got to get up. Like if a wrestler takes you down and he just does this to you and it's not entertaining. But if he can do that to you, that's tough [ __ ] That's what he did. You would change also the time range like or you would leave a three round or five minutes with one minute rest. The good thing about five minute rounds, the good thing about fiveminute rounds is it's sustainable and guys can fight at a high pace. If you had like just 15 minutes, one 15 minute round, guys would be exhausted and the end of it would be sloppy. it wouldn't be the same. The pace would be much slower. It wouldn't be as good. So, I think there's nothing wrong with rounds, but I think it's one fight. It's not five fights. So, why does he stand up at the end of every round? I think if a guy takes you down and he's got you mounted with like trapped in arm and he's punching your ribs trying to secure an arm triangle, why would you why does he get to stand up again? It doesn't make any sense. True. especially if he's a striker and you wasted all that energy get him to the ground and you got so close to cinching up a submission and then all of a sudden he's back on his feet again. You have to stand up and he didn't even earn it. Start him right back down there. No cage, no standups. No standups ever. If everybody booze, tough [ __ ] Go watch baseball. Go watch Go watch something else. Would you you wouldn't like to see at some point the World Championships in mixed martial arts? Like for example, let's say the seven best fighters from the United States in every weight class against seven biders from I don't know from China or from Russia. Yeah, I would love that. The best flyweight against the best flyweight from the United States and you do that and you have seven fights because you have seven weight divisions and if you win four weight divisions that country won. M yeah, that will be fun. Also, that would be great. That's a great idea. I love that idea. Yeah, I think that that idea sounds really good. And also, there is a bit of an issue, right, with the UFC being the premier organization for martial arts. The UFC is like, if you're not a champion in the UFC, no one thinks of you as a world champion. Like, you're a world champion. World champion. Someone can fight in the PFL and they could say, "Oh, it's the PFL world champion." Everybody's like, "Right, come on. Come on. fighters, but at the end of the day, you know that you have all the best fighters, the best collection of fighters in the UFC. Yes. But I watch one FC and I watch some of those [ __ ] animals that they have over there and I'm like, Jesus Christ, some of these guys are good, man. Some of these guys are good. And you know, they're calling them one one FC world champions. I'm like, I'd like to see them. I'd like to see them because some guys look real good until they fight elite talent. And we've seen that before. Like some guys look like destroyers and then they get in the UFC against guys who are just a little bit more technical, a little smarter and they get pieced up. What happens is that I think that in one championship you most of the time you used to fight with strikers. In the UFC, you don't know who who you're going to face next. Maybe he's a wrestler, right? Maybe you're going to fight Demian Maya who wants to fight you on the ground. Maybe you fight Alex Pereira. You don't [ __ ] know. So you have to be good everywhere and you have to be prepared for everything in one championship. Maybe you are good at striking and you can be a world champion. Yeah, maybe. I mean there are some good grapplers over there, but my point is I really wish there was no organizations. I really do. I really wish it was just all the best fighters competing. I don't Look, I love the UFC. I've been working for the UFC forever and my loyalty is to the UFC. But I wish there was just only fighting. Yeah. You know, no organizations just like boxing is in boxing. But the problem with boxing is it's very difficult to get these guys because they all have different promoters. Exactly. And if they all the same promoter, they all get [ __ ] when it comes to negotiation, right? If they're all the same promoter and the same managers. You know something about soccer? No. Yeah, I know a little bit about it. How they do like the Champions League? Mhm. they have like for example let's say the Real Madrid they have a team that's why I would what I would do is like I would create a team against another team for example I have Real Madrid I've I I sign like the best seven fighters in the world whoever I want in different weight classes and you have for example Barcelona you you sign the seven best fighters in the world around the world you train them in one place you do like all the strategy strategy and We meet each other. We do a competition like a Champions League and we do like the whole year calendar and the best wins at the end of we do like the finals and we give them the space to recover. We we create like a competition between teams, not that individual um people, you know what I mean? Yes. So I would do something like that. That's a great idea. But the problem is I think guys guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick. That's why in in soccer you have guys that in your position you always have two or three guys that if you are injured you have another guy that can can can change you or switch you you know between the rounds even and you are in soccer sometimes it happens some someone gets injured in in Estadio stadium and they can switch them. Yeah that makes sense. But I mean at the end of the day like imagine say if you get scheduled to fight Islam and uh Islam gets injured and Arman Sooqian takes his place or something like that. The NBA 82 game grind is done and now the real fun begins. 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I'm like, maybe I bring you Islam that I have it in I have him in in in my team or also I could have Charles Olua in the same team or maybe I bring Charlesa because I think that against your team, the guy you have in the lightweight division, Charles does it better. Right. Right. Right. They do that with grappling like Quintet. They do that. They have like grappling teams. Yeah. I mean that would be interesting. I just there's there's certain fighters like I was my main regret in MMA that we never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC when he was in his prime. That's true. If if I could have one thing, one fight in their prime, Fedor Kane Velasquez. Oh, that would fight. Oh my god. Great. In their prime. That would have been incredible. Incredible. Actually, Kane was an amazing fighter, bro. That guy had a gas tank that was superhuman. So for a heavyweight, it didn't even make any sense. You would see guys just fall apart. They would just wilt. Pure boxing style. Pure boxing style, great wrestling, incredible chin, and just indomitable will. Too tough for his own good, which is why he wind up like towards the end of his career, he was just his body had deteriorated so much. He had so many back injuries, neck injury, shoulder injury, knee injury. There was actually What's going on with him? He's He's in jail right now. He's not Yeah. He got sentenced. He got sentenced to 5 years. And the the judge said this was the least amount he could sentence him. He didn't want to sentence him. Well, what happened to him? Do you know that now? Yes. So Kane's son was going to daycare and there was a man who molested him at daycare. Kane found out about it, chased the man in his car and shot at him. He tried to catch him in his car and shot at him. Kane gets arrested. Kane stayed in jail. The guy gets arrested and he got out on bail. I don't know what's happening with the guy. I don't know if he's been sentenced yet or what, but this guy molested his son multiple times. I don't know how many times, but he did what every father would have done. You the the if you're not a father, you do not understand the murderous rage you would have if some man molested your baby. You don't understand. It's it's you would see read in a way that no one can describe to you unless you're a parent. That [ __ ] anger is I mean if there's ever a plea for temporary insanity, that's that's the plea. If there's ever a person who could justifiably say, "I was temporarily insane," it's a father that's chasing after someone, especially a man who molests your boy. Wow. Yeah, everybody understands it. Everybody understands it. He should have never gone to jail. He's not a threat to society. He's not a danger. He shouldn't be in prison. No. And he already did three years. He was already in jail for three years. He has been a great example for so many upcoming guys like for the new generation. I don't know why guys like him have to end up in the jail for something like that. Exactly. He didn't robber anyone. He didn't Exactly. I don't know. Exactly. It's It's horrific. It's horrific, you know. I mean, I just don't understand it. It's um I mean, the judge's hands were tied. He had to make a sentence and this is the I think the minimum amount. They were trying to give him 30 years. Yeah. For attempted murder cuz he was just shooting at this guy. And obviously, when you're driving and shooting, you could miss him and and kill a bystander. It's very dangerous. But also, the guy was in a murderous rage for a good reason. For a good reason, of course. And if he killed that guy, the world would be better off. That's my feeling. That's my feeling. That's true. That's also true. A guy like that walking around and molest children should be dead. That I that's just my feeling. All this thought of I mean there's a bunch of people on the left here in the United States that they have this crazy way of looking at pedophiles. They they they call them minor attracted persons. They want to make it a protected class and say it's, you know, it's like someone being attracted to someone of the opposite sex or someone being attracted to someone of the same sex. Like, no, it's not. No, it's not. You're victimizing children, the most vulnerable and protected people that we have. Of course, you can't you can't even talk to the kids about something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. About like I I heard so many crazy things about that topic that let's let's leave it right there. will just get in trouble. Yeah. I mean, kill them all. That's how I feel. Kill them all. Anybody wants to do that to children, there's no reason for them to exist. They This I mean, for Yeah. You're just going to ruin lives. And not just their lives, but you're going to ruin all the people whose lives they ruin cuz they're all [ __ ] up now. You know, you you you you kill so much potential from a human being to do that to a baby. It's just insane. Wow. It's just [ __ ] insane. So that's unfortunately the story with Kane right now. And you know he was out for a while once they let him out. He was coaching at AKA and you know he's a amazing coach and we hope that they going to they going to think it again and they're going to give him the freedom he deserves. Yeah. I mean I hope Trump pardons him. I mean that's what I really hope makes something happen with that. Maybe that's possible. I mean, that might be the best best option. Um, but anyway, in his prime, uh, Kane Velasquez versus Fedor. That's my my biggest regret. A fight that we never got to see cuz when Kane when when Fedor was fighting in Pride, you know, and this is before the UFC was really huge, right? Cuz they were huge in Japan in like 2001, 2002. They were filling stadiums in Japan. when the UFC was just sort of emerging in the United States, it really hadn't hit its peak until 2005. And why do you think that they never bring him to to the UFC? Well, they tried. Uh but I got to be careful how I say this. So Fedor was controlled by uh some Russian people that were uh very uh rough men, okay, as it were, you know, uh gangster type characters. And uh they had a bunch of negotiations with the UFC, but there were very unreasonable demands. Like they wanted part of the promotion. They wanted to own a piece of everything. They wanted a lot cuz they knew that with Fedora, they had their golden ticket and they wanted to play it out as much as possible. Okay. Negotiations were very intense and uh very very confrontational. They got bad where Dana had to up his security. It got It got pretty Yeah, it got heavy. Yeah, these are dangerous people. These were dangerous people. It got Yeah, I can tell you more off air. Yeah. Wow. I didn't know that story. I'll tell you more off air. It got You should talk to Dana about it. It got crazy. Wow. They're rough. That's why. Yeah, because I always thought like why they don't bring that guy to the UFC because it's going to be so fun for the for the fans. They wanted to co-promote. They wanted to be a part of the promotion. They wanted more than they deserved. They didn't just want Fedor to get paid. They wanted to get paid. They wanted to They wanted to make a lot of money and they wanted to get their hooks into the UFC. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Russian gangsters. Yeah. Yeah. I get it from their perspective how they rule like everything. Pride was run by the Yakuza, you know. So, it was Japanese gangsters and Russian gangsters. They speak the same language, you know. It was uh they got along fine. But then when they came over to the UFC, the UFC was like, "That's done. Not the place. Do it over here." No, we'll give him a lot of money. We want him to fight in the UFC. And it never took place, unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. So crazy. Yeah. So, he's about to fight again. Fed is going to fight bare knuckle. Yeah. I I heard something about that. Yeah. I think Connor's promotion. I think it's Connor's promotion. That BKFD, actually. Do you think he's going to come back, Connor? If I had a bet. No. Yeah. No. why he comes back cuz he hasn't come back yet. And he could have, you know, if he really wanted to, he would have been back in the gym, had a fight scheduled, drug tested, clean, training, gone through a camp, had a fight. Like, he had a broken toe before the first fight with Tran Chandler. I understand that. Okay. Why should you fight in a broken toe? Especially a guy who moves a lot like Connor. He relies on movement so much. Yeah, I get it. So, heal that toe up. What's that? That's two months. Broken toes is two months. Yeah. And so then you're back in camp and then you you reschedule a fight and then you fight again. But he didn't. Um and also partying, constant partying, all these law legal problems that he has, you know, scooting around on yachts and, you know, driving around a Lamborghini. He's he's wealthy. He's done. Maybe. I mean, the what's really sad is if he comes back when he's like 39 or 40 and his body just doesn't have it anymore, you know? So, right now, he actually has a great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could fight, right? Right. They could fight right now. Yeah, they could fight because if they put him against Potty, I think Patty beats him easy now. Well, a lot of years off, right? A lot of years off, you know, on the feet. Conor's a [ __ ] No, at the in the feed. He's a [ __ ] I I know that he can knock out like everyone. If he's still the same guy. Yeah. But the thing is he's 36 now, you know, and if he's natural also reality, okay, when he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right? Cuz he's got to do something to heal his leg quicker. So, what is he going to do? Well, you're going to take steroids. So, if you're going to take steroids and you're already 34ish, your endocrine system gets [ __ ] up by taking steroids where your body stops producing testosterone. So, I've had explain it to me by scientists before and essentially say if you take steroids for 6 months, you need at least 6 months before your body starts producing testosterone at a normal level again. Okay? Some people think it's twice as long. So, that would be a year. a year of no steroids before your body regains its natural testosterone levels. If it does, depending if it does, you think that if someone puts steroids in his body, he he never comes back as a as his at his normal body. Vtor Belelffort is the best example of this, right? He's the best guy that we could use as an example, but he took bunch of stuck [Laughter] Luke Rockold said when he when he was weighing in when he fought him, he said, "This guy's got muscles on his [ __ ] teeth." Yeah. On his mark. Exactly, bro. But if you go back to Vtor when he fought Anderson Silva before they had testosterone use exemptions, he didn't look like that at all. No, he looked old actually. He looked like his body was relaxed. Yeah. Because Vtor Yeah. So this is the look at the difference before you saw it and after you saw it. I mean that is a crazy example. So when he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked soft and like his muscles look empty. They just didn't look the same. And that was just a couple of years after test. They [ __ ] up with the testosterone use exemption because what they did was they would test guys and if you're low on testosterone, oh, you can have a testosterone use exemption. But you could get low on testosterone in a night if you wanted to. All you'd have to do is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink and stay up all night and your body's natural levels of testosterone would be low. So you could go get drug you who has normal healthy levels of testosterone. You could wreck your body on purpose, then go get drug tested and they say, "Oh, Ilia, you have low testosterone. I'm going to prescribe to you testosterone exemption." And so then you go and take testosterone, you become a [ __ ] animal and and you're healthy. You don't need it. So there was a lot of guys that were taking it that didn't need it. So you think that at this point there are guys in the UFC that are take uh taking like uh steroids, let's say. I would imagine there's for sure someone doing something they're not supposed to do. Yeah. Wow. I don't know because at this point I feel that they are so strict with the they are so strict. There's a lot of guys that do their camps in far away lands and I think that like people always used to joke around about Dagistan, you know, like try try getting a USADA guy into Dagistan, you know, the moment he lands, everybody's going to call everybody drug test in in in Dagistan. They they test Khabib for example in Dagistan. No, I'm sure I'm sure they must have. And what if someone landed from an issue where some guys from USADA and Kabib's camp they had like they had some issue some issue. Yeah, they had some I remember like something like that. But you go over there like and you know you want to get out you got to be careful. Nah, you get that. Yeah. But I would imagine that if you want to avoid being tested all the time, like say like if you are in America and you know you live in Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all the time. They'll test you a bunch, you know, and there's some people that have been tested a bunch. They get tested a lot. And then some people that don't get tested as much. And if you're going to go and do your camp in Thailand or you're going to go do your camp in Dagistan or it's a lot more difficult to get to you to test you randomly. Yeah. But they can anyway, so you can trust on on if they come or not. But there's short acting stuff. There's like um when uh Alex Rodriguez is that A-Rod, right? Yeah. When he was fighting or excuse me, when he was playing baseball rather, they were taking gummies, testosterone gummies. Okay. And the testosterone literally only lasts for a few hours and it's out of your system. Wow. Yeah. I never heard that. Yeah. There's certain stuff that you can take like EPO that's very shortlasting, very difficult to test, very shortlasting. And there's in my case, I don't like that because I wouldn't feel good with myself, right? I'm I'm going to feel like I'm cheating, right? I I don't deserve the the whim because I'm cheating. I'm a cheater. I I can't have that thought that that thought about myself all the time. I when I walk inside the octagon, I feel that I didn't cheat and I deserve the win and that's why I'm going to win. Well, that's why guys like BJ Penn are so impressive cuz BJ Penn was clean when everybody was cheating. Yeah, cuz back then it was really difficult to test. All they tested was at the weigh-ins. So, at the weigh-ins, that's like an intelligence test. Like if you cheat and take steroids intelligently, by the time you get to the weigh-ins, you're going to be clean. If you do it with a doctor, I know camps and I don't want to say the names, but they had scientists working for the camps. And the scientists, these doctors would study guys blood work and make sure that they were clean by the time they got into camp or by the time they got into the weigh-ins. So when they were on the scale, they still had all the benefits of steroids, but they had no steroids in their system and their body hadn't started to deteriorate yet from the lack of steroids. I know some camp camps also that they use steroids. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, for me, you can have all the muscles in the world, but if you are not mentally strong because that's so specific moment when you are in the backstage, you need your mind so badly. You need it more than your body sometimes because as I told you, you can have all the muscles in the world, but you need this muscle as strong as possible, you know. And if you know you cheated and you know you're cheating bad. Yeah. That you are not in what you in reality are saying that you are. Right. Right. Right. That that's a tough one. I don't want to I don't want to see myself in that situation. Never. That's a champions mindset. Yeah. Yeah. That's a real champions mindset. Some guys, they just want to do anything to win. They want to do anything to win. When and if they have to cheat to win, they'll cheat. They'll And they they'll justify it by saying everybody cheats. Yeah. I I'm a God believer and and my mindset is like, of course, I want to win. I prepare myself to win. But if he destroys my plans is because maybe my plans could destroy me. So I don't want to have anything because I want to have it if he decides it. If God decides to to give it to me, I accept it. I will do everything to get it because I desire it from all my heart. And if he says that if I desire it, I have the faith, I will get it. M so this and the reality is if you give everything you have and you lose you win a lesson and you realize you're not at the level that you need to be there's never a lose or you win or you learn and learn learning is also a winning right where did you develop your mindset have you got any mental coaching did you read books on psychology I I read a lot of books I try to read at least uh 30 minutes a day but it's every day every day what you do and and and your daily habits it it what's what makes the difference right because we can decide our future but we can decide our habits and our habits decide our future yes yeah so like what kind of stuff do you read uh I read more like um I I read a lot of books I love reading books uh of self-development books. Uh also how can I tell you in and yeah this is the most of the books I I I read self-development books I I read uh biographies of of the people that I like for example do Donald Trump Warren Buffett I read that kind of people businessmen yeah I try to why do you read businessmen's biographies because at the end of the day. Right now, I'm in sports, but at some point, I'm going to retire and I'm going to make a I have to make a living from from something, right? Because I'm I'm not going to be fighting my whole life and I don't want it even. So, yeah, I want to I want to prepare myself. So, if you want to have extraordinary life, you have to be extra extraordinary person, right? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm trying to to become an extraordinary person in all walks of life. In all walks of life. Yeah. So, do you have an idea of when you want to retire? Um, how old do you know? Till I enjoy. 28. 28. 28. Till I enjoy. I don't know how many fights. Maybe till 32, 34. Really? Yeah. I don't know. Till I enjoy. Right now, I'm enjoying. I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. So, you'll take that road when it comes. What do you mean? uh you'll find when it when that happens when you no longer enjoy then you will go on a different path then you will retire. I don't know right now I I I want to become a lightweight world champion. I want to hold that belt too. So I don't know what's what's going to happen then if I'm going to keep motivated. It's kind of difficult. This is a fight game. Five game is so hard. so hard because you have to go in and shake someone's head off and you can't you can't be that soft guy, you know what I mean? Like that kind guy. You have to be you you got to have that testosterone app. You got to be vicious. Exactly. Yeah. You got to be technical, you got to be smart, but you also have to be vicious. And at the same time, everyone from my family is involved in in in my career. You know, at some point maybe I will end up do a different things. Maybe some businesses. Right now I'm I'm I'm doing different things and I'm enjoying it also. So you're doing different things outside of fighting. Yeah, I have a promotion in Spain right now. Oh, MMA promotion. MMA promotion. What's it called? Wo. Wo. And the goal with Wo is to to because as you mentioned when you say wo, how you how you spelling that? Uh way of the warrior. Oh wow. Okay. So from Spain to get to the UFC before was so difficult. I had to do so many crazy things to to get to the UFC. But right now, we create WO and actually we are in the UFC fight pass. Everyone can get in in in that promotion fight if you have the the skills, if you are ready, someone's going to see you and they're going to sign you in the UFC. The promoter's life is a hard life. That's a hard job. Yeah. You think so? Yeah. It's very entertaining to be honest. When I talked to Dana at least promoting for the UFC, like I was talking to him this weekend and he was telling me all the issues that they're having and with different fights that was ask I was asking him some questions like what are you doing with this? What are you doing with that? And he starts telling me that oh this guy wants that this I won't fight this guy. He told you something about me. Maybe maybe a little bit if he did I can't tell you. I did ask who you're going to fight and they said we're working on things. But uh he was actually specifically talking about um what happens if Bal wins. You know, because uh Islam and Bal have been they've been talking about Islam fighting Bal. That's going to happen. I would like that to happen if Bal wins, but that's an if. Jack Dela Matalena is a bad [ __ ] He's good, man. That guy's good. Even if he wins, they're going to make that fight happen against Islam. You think so? Yeah. Well, if Jack Damatelena wins, then Jack is the new welterweight champion and you know, maybe he fights Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The problem with Islam fighting Bal is that they train together and I think, you know, they'd kind of sit. How many guys we we see fight fight fighting between each other that they used to train before? Oh, I agree. I mean, I think they should fight. I definitely think they should fight. I think Kabib doesn't like that idea. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel. But it's not just that. I mean, Jana is always putting out a million fires. I mean, think about it. They have 500 fighters on the way on in the roster at least. And, you know, there's all these things that are happening and like like the Arman Surukian thing like his back hurts the day of the fight. Wow. He's got to pull out like this is [ __ ] crazy. This is, you know what I mean? Like imagine that you have this whole promotion based around this uh elite fighter who's who fought Islam in his first fight, short notice. They they go to a very close decision, a very close fight. Arman's gotten a lot better. Islam's gotten a lot better. Then they're going to fight again and then the day of he hurts his back. Crazy. It happens. Yeah. Very crazy. Yeah. But if you will be in the Danish place, who would be my next opponent? Islam. 100%. 100%. I wish they I tried to tell him that this weekend. That would be a great fight. Yeah, it's the that's the fight to make. Uh because you have a world champion versus a world champion. Like if anybody deserves a fight for the world title in the next weight class, it's you. It's it's simple. It's simple. You knocked out Max Holloway. I mean, it's simple. You knocked out Alexander Vulcanowski, one of the greatest of all time. It's simple. That's a no-brainer. That's the fight. You know, he doesn't want to fight 45 anymore. He wants to fight 55. World titers. And nobody would argue with that. That would be a huge fight. Everybody would get excited about it. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully they they make those fights happen. Yeah, hopefully. I don't have any say. Like I said, I'd get rid of the cage. I'd get rid of standups. I get I'd [ __ ] everything up for them. I would make it uh less marketable probably. I would. Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's going to be one, too. That's a great fight, too. That's a great fight, too. There's a lot of guys in that division. You know, there's there's a lot of good fights for you at 155 pounds. Do you have a timeline of when you would like to fight at 155? I would like to fight with with Islam. That's for sure. I I would like to fight him. But if they don't give you that fight if they give you like a number one contender fight. When would you like to fight next? I I wouldn't fight for a number one contender fight. You only want to fight for the title. Yeah, of course. Really? Okay. Of course. I understand. That makes sense to me. Look, also it's the most marketable fight. Everybody else has lost to him, right? I don't care if Islam decides that he doesn't want to fight me. I don't care. I sit till you're going to have to fight me. Okay? You say that you are the world champion. You're going to keep dominating the the division, all that. I'm here. You you you can't keep avoiding me all the time. So, you would just sit on the sidelines rather than fight someone else. I don't think that they're going to do that. I don't think they they would put me on a sideline because they asked me to. I I wade the bell because I told him that I wouldn't fight in 145 again, but I get the promise that I would fight for Tyler in my next fight. Mhm. So, how much time you will stop me and from the fighting? So, they did give you a promise that your next when you vacated the belt that your next fight if they give that that chance to everyone, why why not to me? They gave it to Henry Sahul. They gave it to Conor McGregor. They gave it to George Aier. They gave it to to Jo. They gave it to everyone, right? And I proved that I deserve that shot. As you said, I I knock out uh two of the all-time greats. Two two of the all-time greats. Two of the greats. Walk who who was like dominating everyone in in 145 division. And Max Holloway, great fighters, bo both of them, especially after Max Holloway's victory over Justin Gachi, which is like the greatest victory of his career. Yeah. to knock him out after that and no one did it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'd say world title fight, but I don't get to make the rules. And the last fight he had was in 155, right, against Justin Gachi, who also fought for the title. Yep. So, yeah. And then the other thing is there's not really a compelling challenger at 155 other than you. If you look at it like he's kind of cleaned out the division. There's no no one else. I mean, Arman's got to build himself back up. He's not going to get a title shot. I would put Justin Gachi against Patty Pimble. Me against Islam. Once I pass him, I get the title. And you you you put me against Patty because I think that he he's gonna You think Patty's going to beat Justin Gage? Easy. Wow. Really easy. Yeah. Easy. Really easy. Yeah. Wow. That's a crazy thing to say because Justin Gage is a [ __ ] animal. Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple and pen knows how. But he's a division one wrestler. He knows how to grapple. You don't think he knows how to gra? He just chooses not to. He chooses to stand and fight. I don't think so. Did you ever saw him submitting someone? I don't believe he's ever submitted someone, but I think that's because he likes to just crush people. He likes to bang it out and fight. He used to fight. What everyone likes is to dominate people and and to win as soon as possible. If you have the ability to submit someone as soon as you can, you would do it. I think that's your mindset. I think Justin Gates's mindset is to be the most violent person alive. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why he lost some fights early in his career because he took unnecessary chances and he fought recklessly. Then as he adjusted later in his career, he fought more intelligently. He took a lot of risks still, but he was more intelligent about it. He was more intelligent about the way he approached fights and then he started winning and beating guys and that you know like where he might have like thrown himself into wars before like the Michael Johnson fight was just chaos. Just a war just the first fight in the UFC just throws himself into chaos that fight. Yeah, chaos. Yeah, he would just throw he would just try to see he was like Michael Chandler but a better fighter, you know, just more successful at it at a high level. So, you pick Justin Gachi over Patty? I don't say that. Um, I do think that Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a lot of miles on him. Although he's a [ __ ] animal. And how old is Justin Gage? Justin's probably 35. How old is Justin? 36. Turns 37 in November. Yeah, that's when it starts to slip away. If you're natural everything after 35, like this is one of the most extraordinary things about Alexander Vas. I don't think that he's the type of guy that takes care of his body all the time and he's like very strict with his health. I think he slept more at at day than at night. Oh, you think so? Did he parties? I think so. I don't know. They put the camera on him on the last pay-per-view and he looked like he was so high. Like this high I'm not worried about. What I'm worried about is drunk. Cuz high doesn't give you the hangover. High doesn't kill your body. Drunk kills your body. If guys are in between camps getting fat and drinking, that's never a good sign. That's a bad sign. That that's because you're not just not training, you're deteriorating your body. You know, if Justin Gay is just smoking a little weed, I'm not worried about that. Um it's not the best for focus. He doesn't seems to be that guy that drinks a lot. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Cocaine is the worst. worst. When you hear guys doing coke, that's the worst. That's the one that deteriorates you more than anything. I never ever saw a cocaine in my life. Me neither. I never never done cocaine either. I when I was a kid, I had a a friend whose cousin was hooked on cocaine. I got to see it up close. Yeah. I was like, "Fuck that stuff." That's a scary one for fighters, too, because the thrill of cocaine, for some reason, is exciting to people who love like exciting things. Like, there's something about fighters are adrenaline junkies. They like to be pumped up and yeah, Connor seems to enjoy it, which is one of the things that makes me think he probably won't come back. But if he does come back, it's got to be now, you know, again at 36 years old now. Patty Pimpblelet, that's the fight. That'll be a big That's going to be a big fight. Big fight. Yeah. But I don't even think Connor's in the drug testing pool anymore. No. I don't believe so. I don't believe so. See if you can Google that, find out if he's in a draw. I think he pulled back. He's gonna come back. You think so? Yeah. If they give the the opportunity to to I don't know to to guys like I don't know what 40 years old like Arloski. You can have so many names that they fought at four years at four years age. Why not Conor? I know that you want a world title fight at 155, but would you make an exception for a Conor McGregor fight in 155? But right now, right now? No. No. No. Good for you. Do you think it's going to be excited if I beat Islam and then I give the the the chance to Connor? No. I mean, like right now before Islam, like if the the UFC calls you up and says, "I know you want a world title fight. We guarantee you a world title fight after this." Actually, we had that talks like Really? Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. What was that? What was that talk? Tell me what that talk was like. No, no, no. Come on. Come on. Come on. I did this one and I'm going to get some calls that you know how the UFC is. They are like very specific. Don't say anything, right? To no one. Well, no one's listening. You can tell everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Only couple of million of people is listening. Yeah. It'll slip right by. Yeah. If they offer me a fight against Connor right now, we'll say why not? Why not? Why not? Why? I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't say no. Just for the numbers to get a cut of that pay-per-view and it hits two million pies. Yeah. Woo. Why not? That's the thing about Connor is like still even though he might not be the best fighter in the world right now, he's still the he's the golden goose. Of course he is. Yeah. That's something you can't take kind of amazing. you know that still he still guarantees that many eyeballs will go to see him. You know, it just that would be a a great one. But what excites me more is the fight with Patty. Really? Yeah, that fight excites me even more. And if they could put that fight in Spain in the Bay Nabu Stadium. Oh, I I know that Dana doesn't like to to to put the events in stadium, but that's the only stadium in the world that they can close the roof. Oh, okay. Yeah. And this prepared for that kind of How many people? 80,000. You get 80,000 in Spain easy, too. Yeah. If you're fighting in Spain, no problem. Oh my god, that would be insane. I might have to go to Spain for that. And and a lot of people could travel from England to Spain. Oh yeah. And that happens very often. But if they do it in Spain, it's got to be on Spain time. They can't do that [ __ ] that they did when Leon Edwards fought. It has to be in Spain time. But I think that the with the like the negotiations they they are having with ESPN and I don't know in which platform they are going to put the UFC events. They're going to ask for space for four or five events in Europe in the prime time for Europe. Europe this is listen Europe time prime time is fine because it's in the afternoon in America. That's fine. So the fights at 1:00 in the afternoon you people watch football games 100 million people watch a football game stills to be a virgin uh market. You know what I mean? You got 500 million people in Europe. It's more than the United States even, right? And if they did it on Netflix, everybody has Netflix. Everybody has Netflix. That might happen. That's why they're in negotiation right now. That will be a massive one in Spain. In Spain against that that pimple. What happened with you two? Because I saw the video where you guys are yelling at each other. Was it in a hotel or something? Yeah, he said something about Georgia. Oh, he said something about your country. Yeah, he What did he say? He said like, "Now I understand what why the why the Russians are are um bombing Giorgio or something like putting bombs in Georgia." Like, whoa. Don't joke with that. You can joke about me. Say whatever you want to say about me. Whatever. He's a mushroom. He's this. He's that. Da da da. Don't talk about war because you don't know how is it, right? That's a crazy thing to say. Don't say that. Yeah. So, that was the beginning of it. It just out of nowhere he said that. He said that on Twitter. Oh, wow. He said that on Twitter. Maybe he was too high, too drunk. I don't know. He was talking [ __ ] you know? I mean, it gets people to pay attention. He's really good at getting people to pay attention, you Yeah, he is. He's really good at that. I mean, he could be the next Conor McGregor star. Like that kind of a star where the whole world is watching. That weird personality. Yes. Yeah, he has that. Well, he's very disarming cuz people they see I talked about this in the last pay-per-view. I said I said it's a very sneaky trick because guys like you, you look at you, the way you carry yourself, the way you that's a fighter. Like you look at that guy's a dangerous [ __ ] But when you see Patty, he's dancing like this. His hair is flopping around like he's in the Beatles, you know? He's like, he seems silly, but then he [ __ ] people up. And so I think people he [ __ ] people up like Michael Chandler, right? But when he he he faced a real fight, who who did he face? Well, he hasn't faced anyone that good yet, but he [ __ ] up Michael Chandler better than Charles Olivera did. It does. And Charles Oluea even this what what I was telling you before, like when you got 10 losses in your record, that's not one, two, three, four, five, six. That's 10. Yeah. Like when you walk in with a guy that has 10 loes, the level of confidence is completely different. It's completely different than when you walk in with a guy that it's undefeated, right? He's a dangerous guy in the striking, in the ground game, everywhere. You you look at him, he's a dangerous guy. He never tastes a lose. That's a different mentality. You got to you're going to have to kill him to give up. He's not going to even give up. You're going to have to kill him. In the case of Charles, if he finds some adversity, he's going to go to the to to to the ground. He's gonna sit and he's gonna be waiting like till you you end up the fight. This is what I think. This is what I feel. This is what I see. That was certainly the case early in his career. I think things changed with him when he had a child. Um then he went on that run and became a champion. And like when he beat Justin Gai, when he beat all those guys, he was he was pretty elite, man. He was really [ __ ] good. When he beat Chandler, when Chandler had beat him up in that first round, he came back in the second round and [ __ ] him up. Who? Chandler. Yeah. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I get it. Uh Connor's been tested 11 times last year, five the year before, none this year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This He was tested this year. No, none this year. None this year. That's what I'm saying. 11 times last year. Yeah. I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool anymore. I don't know. I don't know. You know, I've heard no plans. You know, the UFC would tell me. I would say, "What's going on with Connor?" And I don't even bring it up anymore. It's I think with him it's going to happen like instantly if something happens. Well, that's crazy. I mean, if he's going to prepare, he needs like a real long camp to really get his body back to fighting shape, like real fighting shape. And he's got to remember, you know, what happened when he came back from boxing and then fought Dustin Porier. It depends who he's going to face because if you put him against against me, he needs to die and be burned again. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. If when you when you think about like your division when you were um the the champion at 145, would he have been the fight that you would have wanted when he was in his prime at 45? Would that be the number one fight that you would wanted at 145? For sure. Yeah. For sure. My god. For sure. He was a dangerous guy in 145. He was so big. He was big, dangerous. Yeah, he had that knockout power. Smart. Yeah. Yeah. One shot knockout power. Yeah. He He had that. Yeah. But when he would make 145, I remember uh that was back when the weigh-ins were literally right there. You'd weigh a guy in and then they they would cheer in front of the crowd. Now the weigh-ins are early and it's a ceremonial weigh- in. So when Connor would weigh in, he would look like death. death. Yeah. See if you can find the video of the weigh-ins with Conor McGregor versus Jose Aldo. He looks like he was on a boat in the middle of the ocean for 6 months. Like, look at him. Look at his face. Wow. Look at his face. Look at that one right there with Mike Goldberg. Click that one with Mike Goldberg right here. Yeah. Click on that. My god. Look how [ __ ] skinny he looks. Look at his face, his cheekbones. He looks like he just got out of like some Russian prison. Like, you know what I mean, bro? That one on the right is insane. It's [ __ ] insane. with muscles. That's insane. I wonder how much weight he lost. I think he he he walks around in 185. So, he lost 40 pounds before he fought. That's crazy. He fought also at at the welterweight division, right? Yes, he fought uh well he fought Donald Cerrone who was really not a welterweight either. He was a 155 pounder, you know, but he wanted to fight welterweight when he came back. Like when they were talking about Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at middleweight and Chandler was like, "Okay, like but you know, part of me wonders like whether he was ever really going to come back." You know, it's you know what I mean? He's going I really think that at some point he's going to he's going to come back because I don't think that he he he wants to leave the sport with a defeat, right? This what uh what I don't think I think that he's going to come back, try to get the win, and then retire in the octagon. Well, I'd like to see that. I'd like to see him one more time. Um it'd be good for him, too, to actually go to a real camp and stop partying, you know. will be good for him, for his family, for everyone, for everyone. But but at some point, he's going to stop. He's got a lot of legal problems, too. You know, there's a lot going on with him in Ireland. But he he's running for the president. Well, they're talking about prosecuting him for old tweets, too. Ireland Yeah, Ireland is going crazy with their woke [ __ ] with uh with the restrictions and censorship. The same way the UK is. It's it's really scary stuff. But they're prosecuting people for tweets. That's crazy. Yeah. England arrested like 4,000 people last year for posting things on social media. No way. Yeah. Yeah. What did they say? You don't even have to say anything crazy. You know, you could just say, "I don't want any more immigrants in my country," and they'll they'll [ __ ] prosecute you. It's really crazy. Wow. Yeah. It's it's that's not a freedom. No, it's not at all. Free speech. That's it's totalitarian government. And it's it's scary because it's uh they're they're using it to silence people to silence people's uh opinions and crazy. Um see if you can find what's going on with Connor because there was something about Conor McGregor possibly being prosecuted for social media posts from I believe it was 2023. Some recent posts that he had made where they were going to bring them back up and prosecute him for it. And he had also like the the case with the rabbits and all that. Yeah. And I think because he wants to run for president, of course, then they're going to use the law to try to stop him because look, he's very popular in Ireland and he might win, you know? I mean, if if these people think that their country is being invaded by to some people from Ireland, like what are the odds that Con becomes the the president? They told me like probably zero. Conor McGregor will not face charges over social media posts made before and during the Dublin riots. Yeah. You know what? They said that about Trump, too. That Trump wasn't gonna win either. They said Trump wasn't Yeah. All the [ __ ] newspapers, everything was saying the chances are none. No, but I asked to the people. I didn't ask. I didn't read the depends on who you're talking to, though. Yeah. You know, it it really depends on how he conducts himself. To him. Oh, to him. Okay. Okay. They're like, "No way." Yeah. Yeah. Look, he should be fighting and he should be fighting while he can because you don't want to be 49 years old sitting back thinking if you could have just won more. Could have got it together if I just stopped partying. I really think that he's going to come back at some point, but we'll see. There's also the problem of that shin, you know, when a shin snaps like that, that's a nobody really comes back from that and fights. His body is [ __ ] He his toy is fact. His chin is fact. his body's [ __ ] with with that that much parties and drugs and all that. You're going to have to pay that price at some point. Yeah. And you are you are paying the price with your health. Yeah. Which is the dumbest thing you can do in in your entire life. It is. It is a dumb thing especially for an athlete. Exactly. Yeah. He he also suffered a lot with the weight cuts. That's a a big damage for your body. That's also one of the reasons why I changed the the weight class because I realized that my health is the most important thing in in in my life. You c you can have everything in in this life, but if you are not healthy, you don't have anything. Yeah. You you know, you're when you're cutting that much water out of your body, you're essentially getting to death's door. You're getting to death's door 24 hours before you fight. But you at a world championship level, which is crazy. You sometimes feel that you're really going to die. I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours at all because I was so dehydrated. My body was so like skinny and I was dreaming with water, with food, with everything. I was my social media and reals everything was about the food foot food. Everything was about food. At that moment you don't give a [ __ ] about anything material about anything. So tell me when you start. So if you were going to make 145 on Saturday, what is your weight cut like or on Friday? What is your weight cut like for the week? When does it start? And what do you weigh before it starts? So okay, basically I start a weight cut since the first day I started the training camp, which is 12 weeks. Really? Yeah. I'm on like very strict diet and I have only one cheat meal a week on Saturday, on Wednesday, whenever I choose it. I have just one cheat meal. And at the same time, you have to perform at the highest level. You have to train as a [ __ ] all the time. And you have like 1,800 calories in your body and you burn four 4,000 calories. Wow. So you are wasting so much energy but you aren't getting back a very low. So that [ __ ] with your mind right that [ __ ] with your mind and you don't feel happiness you feel like stressed depressed. You don't find the happiness in anything. They could bring you all the money in the world but you don't give a [ __ ] at at that moment in about anything material. So, you're doing it all through camp, but when you get to fight week, what do you what do you weigh at? Uh, we do the the the water load. I start on Sunday with eight liters, and I don't have carbohydrates. I don't have any sodium, uh, salts and all that. Uh, do you drink distilled water? Uh, distilled water. Yeah. Oh, distilled. Do you know what I'm saying? No, no, no, no. Just just normal water. Okay. H I'm not not having carbohydrates, uh sodiums and fibers. You you say fibers fibras. Yeah, fiber. Yeah. I only have fat and and proteins in a very small portions. And I drink eight liters on on Sunday, then eight again on Monday, six on Thursday. Wednesday I drink four I think. And then on on Thursday I don't drink anything till Friday till the weightins really. And before the weighins I start to dehydration the the dehydration like we do one session in the morning and I have to lose almost from two to three kilos and the rest I have to I have to lose at at night because I always like to go to the bed uh on on weight. I don't I don't like to wake up in the morning and have to cut the the last part in the morning on Friday morning. When did you start drinking wine before weigh-ins? I did it twice in my in my career. It was once in in Las Vegas. I was supposed to fight with I was fighting with Damon Jackson and I had I had like still six kilos or something like this. That's a lot. That's a lot of weight to cut. And the guy who was uh taking care of my nutrition, he he called us and he told me, "Drink wine. Drink half half bar of wine." I'm like, "You sure?" Yes. He told me because if you drink a liter of wine, you're going to wake up the next day if you don't put anything else in your body with two liters less dehydration. Yeah. Because the the the alcohol it's going to uh procate the dehydration. I did it and it works. And after that I did it in my next fight. But then I was like, I don't feel good. I don't feel good doing this in the wake up. This is kind of crazy. It's fun. It's fun because everyone wants to I don't know. Everyone is almost dying. that that that night I was like partying with my team so skinny drinking wine. I'm like what the [ __ ] we doing? And after one day I have to I have to fa face a monster in inside the octagon experience in life. And so then you weigh in and then what is the rehydration process like? And so I I used to drink the electrolytes until I don't start to pee. I don't put any food in my body. I drink almost for three four hours in small portions. And right now we are so lucky that we have the performance institute. We have great nutritionist in in in in that program that help us to to do it from the right way. So I start drinking in half liter of of electrolytes for example let's say for 20 minutes I have to drink that I can drink more then one one that 20 minutes passed I have to drink the another bottle and like that progressively and so once you start to pee then you allow yourself to eat food. Exactly. And what kind of food are you eating? Most likely carbohydrates. I don't used to eat any proteins because it doesn't help you at all to to have a great performance in inside the octal, right? Because the protein doesn't give you any how say how to say glucosa glucose. Yeah, glucose that your body needs at at that time. You everything you need it's electrolytes and carbohydrates. That's all you need. Not even fibers. Okay. So, like what kind of food? Like pasta? Like that kind of stuff? Pasta. How good does that taste after all that time, bro? Amazing. Amazing. You You could cook the pasta for me that day. And I don't know how good you cook, but it will be amazing. Amazing. I don't care about So, you've gone so long without carbohydrates. I have like almost a week and a half without carbohydrates and I'm struggling for 12 weeks because I have only one cheat meal. So once I I finish the cheat meal, I know that in one week I'm not going to have another cheat meal. So I'm going to have to eat whatever they tell me to to to eat. Like I wake up, I know that I'm going to have two eggs with one slice of bread and I'm going to have to train I don't know how much in the morning and then in the afternoon I'm going to have to train again and I'm going to have the same food all the time. And the the good thing about that is that my wife she she was like a very important part in my last training camps because he made my my diet more more fun. You know, I didn't had to to repeat the food all the time because when I was in charge of that, just imagine what I was eating all the time the same. All the same. just the same boring food just get through the month food because I didn't even had like the the opportunities that I have right now. Right now I have a chef. I have I set up my home with everything. Everything is so comfortable. But before I had to cook for myself, uh go to the supermarket doing everything for by myself and it was tough. So all the foods weighed out, all the calories are measured, everything's very systematic. Um, so with this extra 10 lbs, how much better do you think you'll be able to perform inside the octagon? Because I would imagine physically that's got to take a toll on you. As good as your performances were, and they were spectacular, but as good as your performances were, your body could not have been operating at 100%. 100%. You are going to see me at 155 that I'm going to touch someone and I'm going to take his lights out. Even if I I don't need to touch his chin. I just touch his head and it will explode. I feel so powerful at that weight class. So power, so stable in the ground. Like, do you want to wrestle? Let's wrestle. No problem. And I have the gas tank for five days, not five rounds. Do you think that a lot of fighters maybe diminish their potential by competing at a lower weight class for too long? It depends. It depends. Some of them, yes. Some of them know because I think there are guys fighting in 145 that they could fight in 135 because they are smaller. They like Josie Aldo. Like Jos Aldo. I mean he was one of the best ever at 145 and really looks fantastic now at 135. Exactly. And says this is the first time at 35 in his career that he's ever taken nutrition seriously and had a diet. But at the same time he was a world champion right for so long. one of the best and one of the best. May May he he would cut the weight at 135 and he wouldn't succeed at this level, right? Cuz he wouldn't have the energy, but Jose Aldo was big at 145 back in the day. He would struggle to make 145 earlier in his career, but I just think he wasn't doing it the right way like you're doing it. You know, I think athletes of today are much more systematic about that and they have more information about the nutrition. And they have we we got more help from the performance institute as they told you like the UFC performance institute is incredible there when when I remember when they first opened it I was a little skeptical. I'm like who's going to use this? What is the big deal? And then I went there I was like oh bro okay crazy. This is amazing. Without them you wouldn't see many of the fights that we have seen. A lot of people would miss the weight. A lot of people. Yeah. So at 155 you're going to be able to eat more. You're going to be able to train more. or you'll be able to recover better. Like everything much better. They're really taking care of you. I can't wait. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait either. I can't wait. I want to fight. So, take me through like what is a typical training week like for you? How much strength and conditioning do you do? How much uh how much do you concentrate on technique? How much do you spar? Outside or inside the training camp? Um, let's go with outside the training camp first. So, out outside the training camp, I try to develop my skills in every discipline. Like I try to to not mix it up. I don't train MMA at all. I do boxing classes, wrestling classes. I try to learn every discipline separate. Why do you do that? Because when the training camp comes, I try to mix it up and polish everything that I have been able to to learn till that moment. You know what I mean? Everything that work worked for me in in wrestling and boxing in in in the places where I feel comfortable like that's why I want to develop all the time my my knowledge. I want to get better all the time. And I can get better if I only go and train MMA and I only drill the same things all the time, right? My head is like get getting stuck getting stuck, you know? I need to learn new techniques because I I I think that I have much more to learn in every discipline. Like in BJJ, you never end up learning all the time. You learn new things, you see new things, you want to try it and it it takes some time. That's that technique works for you and and when you're rolling with someone for example. Right. Right. So yeah, one thing is what you know and the other is what you do with what you know. How do you know how much time to allocate to each specific discipline? Because something like Brazilian jiu-jitsu, it's a neverending journey. Like there's so many techniques. It's it's un there's so many different combinations of things that you could do to a human body when you're grappling. So the thing about me is like you have to decide what kind of style do you want to have. Do you want to fight from the guard? You you how do you say guard? Yeah. You want to pass the guard like there are different styles. Right. Right. But at some point I I was I was like fighting all the time from the guard. I was doing like the beating balls, baby balls, everything because I needed to to feel what the people feels when I'm passing the guard, the the guard. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, the same thing with boxing for example, someone has a defensive style. Someone has uh aggressive style but from distance. Someone needs to cut to to distance and work more in in the body. So, I don't know. It's like it's so difficult to explain explain it to you. I know what you're saying though. I think one of your most impressive performances uh was Josh EMTT because in Josh Emtt, he's such a powerful puncher. He's such a dangerous puncher, but everything he throws you has murder on it. Everything. But you just kind of slipped and moved with everything and just systematically broke him down. But you adjusted your style for his danger. you adjusted your style for him and just dominated the fight. I think that was one of the most impressive performances because it showed how skillful you could be. Whereas like imagine if Michael Chandler fought Josh EMTT, it would be [ __ ] madness. Just madness. Two dudes just trying to murder each other just [ __ ] throwing haymakers, you know. But what you did was you broke down what he was doing. You found your openings. You started to get your timing. You started to figure out, you put all his movements into your computer and then you you rolled with everything. Everything he threw, you rolled with. When he had big shots, you you moved with them. All his big shots were coming with the right hand. Like he's the type of guy that ends up every combination with the right hand. So everything I had to do, it's all the time. I didn't have to exchange the punches with him. I had to let him throw me all the punches, roll his right hand, and then start with my combinations. And this is what I really did. Like I I was hurting him with with with the cuff kicks. Then I was going for my combinations and long combinations all the time. In MMA, no one works the long combination combinations. No one. They always used to do one, two, one, two, three. But no one does one, two, three, three, four, five, six. You know, and like the J Herbert fight. Exactly. Usually you're getting two punches, everyone blocks two punches, but after the second one, they put the hands down again and then is when I go again like one, two, one, two, three, four, five. Boom. You are not waiting for that. And if I change the levels and I go in the head and the body, cuff kicks, I go for the takedowns, I mix it up, you you get crazy. It's interesting that you didn't start boxing until you were 17 because you're probably the best boxer in not just the featherweight division, but you might be the best boxer in the sport in terms of your movement and then your one punch power. Your one punch power is pretty [ __ ] crazy, which I think you either have or you definitely can develop it and it definitely is dependent upon technique, but either you have power or you don't have power. Have you? So, did you always notice that like from the very beginning when you first started training? I always had power. Is that crazy? Yeah, it is. It's a God-given thing. God-given thing. 100%. I always had that power. I remember myself without much technique, but I was connecting the punches and putting guys to sleep in the trainings. And I wasn't that skeptical guy, but I had that power. But you were smart enough. See, this is the difference between like a Josh EMTT approach and your approach. You were smart enough to realize that, okay, I've got this power, but now I need to develop laser sharp techniques, of course. And I have to be able to find the moment. I don't have to just throw it and believe that I have the power. If I connect it, I put you to sleep. No, it's not if I I'm going to connect you that punch. I'm going to work for that and I'm going to find that specific moment to put your lights out. And I know with everyone, even if in in 155, I know that I'm going I'm going to be able to find that find that moment where I'm going to be able to connect that one punch or two or three punches because sometimes it's not only one. I'm able to combinate punches. You know, sometimes you think that I'm going for your head and I'm going my main combination is to go to the body and I go to to that with that liver shot and that hurts also. Oh yeah. Yeah. And little by maybe I I I I don't knock you out but it takes a lot of cardio from you. A lot of moment you start doubting in yourself. You you getting like wow. If he connects me with this punch in in the chin, I'm done. And you're starting to to to to doubt and then the doubts kill you at the end. Yeah. It's like little by little by little. Yeah. It's um it's interesting how few guys really work the body. Well, that's one thing about Jack Dela Matalena is that he's a very good body puncher, which is one of the things that I think is very interesting about this fight with Bal Muhammad. He's a dangerous body puncher. He's very good at mixing up and down. No one uh usually used to attack the body in the UFC. I don't know why. So, such a beautiful technique to go to go and work the body. Not only the head, everyone goes for the head. Mhm. But there are also weaknesses in the human being's body, which is the the body, especially with those little MMA gloves, you know, everything hard. Yeah. And you're you're digging digging into that rib cage. But it's just it's interesting how the sport evolves. And I think when a guy like you comes around that does mix things up so well and does have elite boxing, the next generation will also copy you. that will copy your style, you know, because like think about the calf kick. There was no calf kicks forever. Forever. I don't know when they started with the calf kick. Benson Henderson. Benson Henderson. Benson Henderson. He was the first guy I ever saw do him. He was doing a lot. And I remember pointing it out like he wasn't doing it as effectively where he was like crippling guys mo movement, but he was doing it a lot. And then I remember when Dustin Porier fought Jim Miller, Jim Miller almost took him out with calf kicks. Like Justin Porier's calf was destroyed in that fight and then you know Dustin Porier became a really good calf kicker after that and then it became ubiquitous. Everybody has to have a calf kick but it comes from Muay Thai. It comes from kickboxing. It comes from It sort of does but in Muay Thai they don't throw it very often. It's not a common technique in kickboxing or Muay Thai which is interesting. It's not as common as it is in MMA. Not so much. It's like a jab but for the legs. job. It also cripples your movement which is terrible because you can't punch as hard because you don't have a left leg anymore or right leg depending on what's forward. And at the same time it distracts you a lot, right? You know what I mean? It hurts so much. Yeah. It hurts. It distracts you. You have to you you don't only have to think about the hands, you have to think about also about the kicks. Well, Izzy said that when he lost to Alex Pereira the first fight in in the UFC, he said he wasn't hurt that bad with the punches. He said he couldn't move. He said his leg was so destroyed. He said my leg my left leg was so compromised I couldn't move. And then in the second fight when Alex when he knocked Alex out in the first round, he said my leg was [ __ ] already. He's like he was getting me again. He's so sneaky with that calf kick cuz he throws it. He's got that weird style. He stands he and he just kind of throws it out there and you don't even see it coming because he's not twisting his hips. He's not and it's still he hits so hard that he doesn't have to turn his body weight into it. and he's still [ __ ] you up. And at the same time, he had that muscle memory. He was like, "If he starts with the calf cake, I'm going to be fucked." Yeah. He He said that to me. He's like at the end of the round, I was like, "Oh, this [ __ ] did it again. I can't believe he got me again." He's like, "My leg was fucked." And then he caught him with that right hand. What's your alltime favorite fighter to watch in the UFC? Boy, I don't think I have one. I don't think I have one. It's just top five. Well, you're in there. You're in the top five. Really? Yeah. For real. Joe, for real. Yeah, definitely. I mean, how could you not be? You knocked out two Hall of Famers. Two of the all-time greats. Vulcganowski and Max Holloway are alltime greats. Two of the greatest featherweight champions. So, if you're a great featherweight champion, you're the greatest in a division that probably has, if not the most skill. There's like there's an argument for the most skill. I think it's 45 and 55. I think those are the two divisions that have the most skill. Yeah. So to be a a champion at 45 or 55, you're a champion in the most skillful weight class. Like look at 45. So many [ __ ] killers at 45 now. Like look at what Jean Silva just did to Bryce Mitchell and he wasn't even ranked. Yeah. You know, I mean this guy's a [ __ ] man. You know, and these guys are coming up and they're so goddamn good. And Yay Rodriguez, you know, you got these guys that are so skillful. You got so much talent. I don't know what to tell you about Gyra because I'm not a big fan of him. Yer. Yeah. No. How come? No. No. I don't know. I I see I see him. He's the type of guy that you don't even need to take him down. He goes to the ground by himself. I don't know. He's like very spectacular at the way he fights and the striking and the kicks he throws and all that. But I don't know. I'm not a big fan of him. I'm fan of Wulk and Max Holloway. Well, actually they were the smartest guy smartest guys that I ever faced inside the octagon. I felt that they were smart. They had that fight IQ. They they know how to fight. Do you think Max Holloway made a mistake in going up to 55 and then back down to 45 again cuz he got big when he fought? 100%. Yeah, I think so too. 100%. Yeah, he he looked too compromised. He looked he didn't look healthy at 45. He get crazy for the title shot. He was like, "Take the gold." Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I understand it. I get it. I understand it. And the guy who was the 145 lb champion, he knew it'd be hard to make the weight, but he felt like he could do it. But the thing is, he he gained so much muscle to get to 55 to fight Gachi. And he did it over a long period of time where he really bulked up well. But at the same time, I don't know if he wouldn't try it, he would stay for life like with the doubt that if I Yeah. Yeah. So, another one is Pereira just because what he's done inside the octagon is so crazy. Two division world champion is a short period of time and hadn't been fighting MMA for but three or four years. Crazy. It was crazy. And it's also what he does when he hits people. They like what he did to um well I mean but basically what he does to everybody when he connects I mean his his power is just different than what he did to Jamal Hill one left hook boom and Jamal Hill who's good at taking a shot all of a sudden he's gone you know he's just there's some Yuri Prohaska that fight like the the second fight it's crazy crazy he just like he hits you one time it's like that was with a with a headkick right uh headkick in the second round but dropped him with a left hook he was basically on after the first round cuz it was at the buzzer. He hit him with a left hook and then he drops and then the bell rings. Um, and then he knocks him out with a head kick in the second round, but he he's just got this crazy style that's different than anybody else's style. And he's such a specialist, such a kickboxing specialist. Two division world champion in glory and then goes on and becomes a two division special. And 37, you know, he's older. He's an older guy, you know, to be fighting at such an elite level, you know. Jon Jones, definitely. Jon Jones, one of the greatest of all time. I mean, and John, what do you think about he's going to come back? He's going to fight Tom. Yes. I think he'll fight Tom. I think he'll hang out. You don't think so? No. Really? I don't think so. How come? For what? For glory. He already has the glory. Yeah. One more glory before the lights fade. Yeah. Yeah. I think John's a conqueror. I think he is. I think he sit back. He's the best of of all time. No one can say say the the opposite of that. He he he's the best. Look, the guy developed a spinning back kick at 36. didn't have a spinning back kick his whole career and all a sudden knocks out Stipe with a spinning back kick for the heavyweight title at 36 37 years old. That's crazy. And uh they showed me a video the three days ago, four days ago, John before the fight with Steve, he was practicing that kick at the day of uh of the fight. Yes. And he said something like, "This is the kick. I'm going to knock him out with this kick." And the guy showed me the video. That's crazy. Well, John's fight IQ is insane. Insane. Insane. Insane. He's a smart he's a smart guy. And did a lot of his career partying, which is even crazier. Like diminish his body. Did co like one of the things he said to Daniel cocaine, Daniel Cormier, rather, which is one of the uh coldest things anybody's ever said. He said, "I beat you when I was on Coke." That's such a cold blooded thing to say. It's so cold blooded. It's so cold blooded. Crazy. He's so crazy. He was so good. But he was so good. He was better than everybody in his division, so he didn't work hard. But then when he has to work hard, he's [ __ ] terrifying. Like when he fought Alexander Gustoson, barely trained. They said he barely trained. Barely was in the gym. They they were really worried about him. They were Greg Jackson said they were even considering not letting him fight. They're like, "You shouldn't be fighting. You're not training." Yeah. And then he he guts it out in the final rounds, wins the decision, very close fight. Then they have a rematch. And in the rematch, he's [ __ ] trained. Yeah. And then he just destroyed him in the rematch. The first fight was very competitive. Second one. Yeah. He dominated. Not competitive at all. Yeah. When Jon is focused and Jon is in shape and training, he's the greatest of all time. I think he fights Aspenol because I think it's going to be a lot of money. It's it's it's glory. And look, Aspenol is amazing. He's unbelievable. He's fast as [ __ ] for a heavyweight. He's big. He can grapple. Black belt and jiu-jitsu. He's got knockout power. But he's never been in deep water ever. I don't even know if he's gone to a second round. I don't want to say that he he doesn't have any chance because everyone has it. One punch can change everything in in in inside the octagon. Of course, we everyone think that Jon Jones is gonna gonna get it, but you can't count count him out at at all the Tom Aspina, but I don't think that he's gonna come back. Me personally, do you think what is this here? One time Andrek took him to the second round. That's it. Oh, really? Wow. I don't even remember that. And then he TKO'ed him. That was four years ago. That's kind of crazy if you look at his career. It's all one and two. And then in Bama, he had a two two round fight. That's great, but it's also not great because he doesn't have any deep water experience. You know, if you're fighting a guy like imagine if he fought Stipe when Stipe was in his prime or he fought Kane, you can't have one round fights and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a five round war because the chances are you're not going to catch him in the first round and he's gonna his cardio is just like an alien. Yeah, but at the same time, you don't know how how he's going to look at the fourth and fifth round. He might be great. Might he might be great. Sure, he might be great, but he doesn't have that experience. So, in his head, you've got to think there's got to be some no matter how confident he is, there's got to be a couple questions if you've never been like Jon has no questions, right? There's no questions in Jon Jones's head. He's gone through five round wars like the Gustoson fight. Five round war, no training wins. He knows that he's got what it takes. He's got heart. It's It's undeniable. So, there's no questions. But with Aspenol, it's like, yeah, he can get everybody out of there. He's got the confidence that he gets everybody out of there. That's for sure. Like, he's got the confidence if he connects. He's so fast and athletic for a heavyweight. And he's a legitimate heavyweight. Like Tom Aspenol is not making 205. He's big. He is big. He's a big [ __ ] He's big. So for him, you know, it's But Jon Jones is special. He's special. He is special and he has that fight IQ. He's not that type of guy that he walks in and you, for example, I don't know, Francis Ninganu, you know that he he got that one punch power. Mhm. But he doesn't have the same level of fight IQ as Jon Jones, right? You know what I mean? with Jon is like if he feels that you are dangerous in the striking, he's going to grab your legs, try to mold you a little bit in the ground. Then if you go in the second round with him in the striking, you're going to be tired. He also beats the [ __ ] out of your knees. That front leg side kick to the knee, the oblique kick to the knee. He's a bad guy. He wants to hurt you. He's trying to [ __ ] you up. He He doesn't care to go with the elbow, with the knee. He wants to hurt you. John, when you know when he fought uh Thiago, Thiago Santos, at the end of that fight, Thiago needed two knee surgeries. Both of his knees were destroyed and he was basically never the same fighter since ever after that fight. What happened with that guy? I never saw him. Never ever. Well, he fought again after that and he left the UFC. But his his knees were never the same. He had multiple knee surgeries after that fight. Crazy. Both of his knees got kicked out. I mean, he was front leg sidekicking the [ __ ] out of his knees. And what about you used to train sometimes? MMA, jiu-jitsu. What? Mostly jiu-jitsu. I did Muay Thai. Yeah, but I started in taekwond do and then I started I would love to share some training with you. I would love to share some training with you, too. I want to see what you do, man. I watched you uh grapple with Morab. I was super impressed. Yeah. I watched a video you grapple. I'm like, anybody that could do that to Morab. Like, holy [ __ ] Cuz people think about you. They're scared of your striking. But one of the things, well, like you opened up a lot of people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle. He was like this elite Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt who do a lot of strange things like he would like turn his back to people and do weird things. He'll hook BJ Penn like that in the first round like with that I role. Yeah. But when you dominated him like that, I was like Jesus Christ. And then you put his lights out, I was like wow. Because people think when people see a guy who can strike like you do, they kind of forget about the ground game. You know, they forget that your ground game is very elite, too, you know, which is really interesting because you you you tend to put people in categories of danger, but with you it's all danger. Like you you're you have a a very wellbalanced game, you know, which is unusual. Like Pereira, for instance, doesn't have a balanced game. you know, his game is he's going to connect and you're going to wake up, you know, that's that's all it is. His his game is kickboxing, but your game is like it's everything. It's all over the place, you know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight. It's it's everywhere. It's stand up. It's the ground. It's comprehensive. It's like George St. Pierre when he was in his prime. It was coming from all different angles. You never knew if he was going to take you down. You didn't know if he was going to strike with you. It was all your mind was overwhelmed with possibilities, which is, in my opinion, what I like to watch. That's what I like the most. A guy who can do everything. I love specialists. I love like Damen Maya because when Damen Mia would get you, who'd he clinch you? Like, oh, you're [ __ ] Back, you're [ __ ] To this day, the one fight that drives me the most crazy where a referee [ __ ] it up was Kamaro Usman and Damen Mia. Cuz in the first round, Damen Mia had Camaro Usman's back standing up, had one leg laced, had his back, but it was taking too long and the referee separated them. And I'm like, you [ __ ] He's so close. He's so close. This is it. Look at this [ __ ] Like Camaro Usman's in deep [ __ ] here. He's in deep [ __ ] here. And the referee [ __ ] separated him. This is crazy. He's doing this. This referee This drives me nuts. Go back it up a little bit. Back it up a little bit because it's before this. It's before this. So like when once he finally secures it go a little bit before that. A little bit before a little bit before little bit before. Maybe do it do it right from the moment where they they clinch up. Okay. Right here. So as soon as he clinches up and he ties that leg as soon as he gets his hands together. Camaro is in deep [ __ ] right here. Deep [ __ ] Camaro has one loss on his record and that's by rear naked choke. And now he's grappling with one of the best to ever do it. To this day, this [ __ ] me up. This is one of the reasons why I hate when they separate fighters. I hate when they stand people up and I hate when they separate fighters. This is a huge mistake here by this referee because you've got one of the greatest ground specialists of all time. Do do you think that he was the most dangerous guy in in the ground? Yes. In in his in his prime. In his prime, he he dominated people. Oh. Oh god. This is so close, man. Camaro's in real trouble here. The way his arm is compromised behind his back. He's [ __ ] here. You got to get out of this. You can't get separated just cuz the crowd's booing. The referee's like too involved. Get the [ __ ] out of there. Get out of there and let him work because if he gets to the ground tomorrow might be [ __ ] here. And there's two minutes to work. There's plenty of time to this day. That drives me nuts. He's doing something very interesting there with the with the butterfly. Yes. With that left butterfly. Yeah. He's constantly keeping you off base. And you know that if you make any mistakes here, that right hook is coming over. The arm's coming over the top. As soon as he lets go Yes. So, as soon as he lets go of that arm, that arm that he's got trapped, that arm that he's got trapped with his over with uh his left arm, as soon as Kamaru is if he gets that arm over the top of the shoulder, Camaro's [ __ ] man. This is a terrible spot to be. And for the referee to separate them and not let him work. I was talking to Matt Sarah about it the other day and he was like, "Yes, he [ __ ] them." Yeah, he [ __ ] him. They did. They [ __ ] him. Then Camaro wins this fight and then, you know, I watched this fight. The world changes. It changes because this could have been a loss and then Camaro could have been back to the drawing board. It's a bad situation to be in with a ground. See, look. Now he has this advantage of being able to stand up again. like why why does he have this advantage? Why why you should be back where you were? There's no reason to separate those guys. Referee mistakes are crazy. You know, like there's there's moments in fights where referees make mistakes where a fighter's whole career just changes, just flashes before their eyes. The other day also something happened in the in in the paper in in the car with with Dan Eager. Yes. Yes. I don't know why he stopped the fight and yes that that was a bad decision too. That was bad as well. Same thing. Sean Woodson. Yeah, I think he would win the fight anyways, but he didn't had to stop the fight. It was a bad stoppage. It was a bad stoppage. Yeah. Yeah, there's bad stoppages, Matt. I mean, it happens. It happened to Jared Canineer. Jared Cananeer had a bad stoppage. Uh I guess uh who was that against? Was it Emov? The worst tappage, the Robbie Lawler against Ben Ascarin. Oh yeah, that was the worst. That was the worst one. That was the worst one. They thought he was out and he wasn't out. I was so excited for that fight. Robbie was beating the [ __ ] out of him too before that headlock. Yeah, that was terrible. That was a bad stoppage. Yeah, there's been some bad stuff. But you know, look, the referees have the second hardest job in the sport. The first hardest job in the sport. Yeah, here it is. This is Jared Cananeer and Amov. So he gets Look at that right there. That's crazy. That's a crazy stoppage. He stopped the fight. Why? Yes. No. Yeah. Look at this. He got hurt. He got hurt, but he's covering up. And by the way, Jared Caner can [ __ ] take it, man. He comes back. Jared Caner came back against Rodriguez in his last fight. He was hurt way worse than this. And he came back to score a knockout. But that was a crazy stoppage. It just, you know, like I said, referees have the second hardest job. Fighters have the first hardest job. Second hardest job is being a referee. Because those moments when you make a decision like ah, you can't take it back. The fight's over. That's true. It's terrible. It's hard to be a referee. Yeah, it is. And then there's the judging. Some judges. The judging. Yeah. How do they also Something that drives me crazy. It's like, how do they keep having the same bad judges come back again? That's what's crazy because the UFC has no control of the judges. The judges are all established by the athletic commissions. Yeah. So sometimes you get great judging and it's like, "Oh, the judges are good tonight. These are good decisions." And sometimes you get, "What the [ __ ] is going on?" Yeah. Sometimes judges are horrible. There's horrible. Doesn't make any sense. You never know if they give you more points for wrestling, for striking, for defending, right? It's crazy. Well, some judges just aren't qualified, right? They don't have a martial arts experience. They don't they don't have a background, you know? They just learned how to judge that. You can't I don't think you can do that. It's like I don't speak Spanish, but if you taught me some Spanish and then I was judging Spanish, would I with you know what I'm saying? Like crazy. I'm not qualified, right? You are not, right? So, if you have a guy who doesn't really understand who's got the dominant position, like maybe you see a [ __ ] guillotine that has no chance, it's not like they never fought. It's they not even never trained. Right. Exactly. Most of them. I remember early on in the UFC, one of the judges turned to one of the uh people next to this person. It was a woman. She turns to this person. He goes, "What is he doing?" No way. Yeah. Yeah. What is he doing? Someone was trying to get a kamura and she's like, "What is he doing?" She didn't know what a kamura was. So, how did they get there? They were boxing judges. So, the boxing judges, they started using them for MMA fights with no martial arts experience at all. Never never stepped on the mat, never put in a mouthpiece, never got punched in the face. That's crazy. That's crazy. They don't know how it works. And it's they're judging at a professional world championship level at the highest level. It's crazy. It's crazy. I think they should have more judges. Let Let me ask you something. What do you think was the the decay of success of the UFC? Like it was Dana White, it was the matchmakers, it was the fighters, it was the promotion. What it was? I think the big thing was the Ultimate Fighter. I think everybody kind of agrees with that. The Ultimate Fighter reality show. What what made the UFC huge was that first season of the reality show because this was 2005. So reality shows were really popular back then. this is, you know, Survivor and Fear Factor and there's all these reality shows and Big Brother and so they had this reality show that people are watching with fighters and then they have the finale and in the finale Forest Griffin fights Stephan Bonner and it's such a crazy fight that people are just to telling their friends the the the ratings were going up as the fight went on and you know the Fertittas the people that owned the UFC before this uh current company they were in the hole $40 million and they just kept losing money and they said, "Listen, this is the last they were going to sell the UFC at one point in time." And then they got to this point where they're like, "Look, let's just try this one more thing. Let's just try this one more thing." And they they did this this reality show and the reality show worked. And then 2005 and then they had Chuck Liddell. And Chuck Liddell was the perfect poster boy for this new cage fighting thing. This [ __ ] maniac with a mohawk and a tattoo on his head and he's just crushing everybody, you know? He was a perfect guy because the fights were so exciting and he had this insane style. This insane almost like Michael Chandler style but better. Entertaining style. Very very entertaining. Just warrior. He was a good boxer. Good striker. Fast hands. Yeah. Fast hands. Vicious knockout power. And he was a wrestler, but he didn't wrestle anybody. He was a heavyweight. Light heavyweight. Yeah. Big guy. Yeah. He was light heavyweight. Big guy. KO's people with one punch and you know it was perfect for the sport because like he was so exciting and he looked the part. He was like a maniac and after we'd win he'd go and run around the cage. It was so exciting. So exciting. He was the poster boy. He was the guy. He was the guy that put the sport on the map because people would watch him and they go gez. Yeah. That time timeline of MMA was so fun with Rampage Jackson also. Oh yeah. And then when Rampage KO'ed him, you know, he became the man and you know, and then Jon Jones comes along and you know, it's like the sport. That's what's crazy about John, right? Jon's been dominant now for like what 15 16 years. Yeah. That's nuts, man. That's why I I say he's the best. He's the goat. He's the goat. He's the goat. I don't know how how they don't put him as the number one poundfor-pound. He's the number one pound for pound. You know, it's just because he doesn't fight as often as Islam. You know, Islam has defended his title more recently, more often against top flight competition, whereas John is, you know, John takes a year off, does a year off here, a year off there. But when you look at the overall record, the overall career, he's the greatest of all time. But when I when I talk about like just technique, you got to listen, you got to think about Mighty Mouse, too, man. Mighty Mouse in his prime was a bad [ __ ] man. He would do [ __ ] to guys like s when he suplexed Ray Borg and caught him with an armbar in the middle of the air and finished him. You don't think so? I see your face. I see your face. No, no, no. It's not like But I don't know. I never was a big fan of him. No. No. Never. I think when you call yourself a Mickey Mouse, mighty Mighty Mouse Mighty Mouse. So, I always thought that he was a Mickey Mouse. I'm like, "Bro, how the [ __ ] you calling yourself a Mickey Mouse?" No, he was a good fighter. He was a good fighter. He was a very technical fighter. He dominated the whole division. How many times he defended his belt? Like, many times. 14 times. Many times. He [ __ ] a lot of people up. But then there's an issue where the quality of the competition in the 125 pound division back then was not at the level that it is now. Like Pantosia, he's a bad [ __ ] I would have loved to see Aleandre Pantosia versus Mighty Mouse in their prime. Pantosia is a [ __ ] animal, man. That guy's a [ __ ] animal. There's a guy coming up in 125. He fought in the last pay-per-view in London. His last name is Kavana in 125. He's going to be a problem in that division. He's very skillful fighter. Well, I think like all weight classes, um, now you have the best fighters of all time because we see guys from the Dana White Contender Series now that are coming along that that enter into the UFC for their first fight. And you see these guys like, Jesus Christ, this guy looks like he has 15 pro fights in the UFC. They look elite. You know, that that's a cool program. Also, a Dana White Contender Series. That's something cool because they have some story behind them before they get to the UFC. Mhm. And that's cool. And actually they make a good matchmaker matchmaking also to for that fight. I I like to see sometimes Dana White contenders series within some fight nights. Yeah. You get to see guy Well, that's where we found Sugar Shawn Omali. you get to see guys uh I prefer that to the Ultimate Fighter because I don't want to watch all the in the house [ __ ] and all the games that they play. I don't care about all that. I don't care. I just want to see him fight. Not anymore. But before it was very entertaining in the beginning. In the early days, but the I mean now they're on like season 2000. Like who [ __ ] there's been so many seasons like I can't even keep track. I forget who won you know there's so many seasons. But the my point is that the caliber of new guys when they're just entering the like Mauricio Rufi, perfect example. Yeah. You see this guy first fight in the UFC lightweight, right? Yeah. He's [ __ ] huge. You see this guy first fight in the UFC, you're like, whoa, this guy is elite already. You know, same thing with Jean Silva. Elite already. Like these guys, they're entering into the sport at a very Carlos Pates, same thing. like right away like you're seeing like a very high level right away and uh I just think that because there's so many guys like you to watch there's so many guys like you know Hamzad and all these people you get to see elite talent. So these young fighters that are coming up they have a higher level they yeah a higher level to aspire to. That's true. Now like the the sport is growing that the talents are better than before. Yeah. Because the the sport has developed so much that right now you have so much experience. You can learn so much about the game. Like even in YouTube, you go on YouTube, you can learn everything by yourself. I think in the future guys like you will be everywhere. There will be only guys like you at world championship level. I don't think there'll be any specialists anymore. I think there'll be guys who are elite everywhere. everywhere. This is what what I was saying like all the time. Now it's time for the new generation. What's the new generation? That if you want to want to be the best, you have to be the best in everywhere the the fight the fight takes the place in the ground and the wrestling and the striking. You have to be good everywhere because that's how how the sport is de developing right now. Because before before you were good only uh in wrestling you would take people down and no problem you you you could become a world champion but right now so tough so tough the competition all the time is higher and higher and higher and there's more knowledge in the in the sport. Yeah, there really is. It's um it's very inspiring and it's very interesting because there's no other sport where you could go back and look at it from 1993 to 2025 and it's almost like a completely different sport. The the athletes are so much better than they were. I mean, even from like 2000, go back to 2000 and watch the sport and then watch it today. At least in the UFC, it changed a lot. A lot everything. Even the production. Oh, yeah. Everything. everything changed everything. I mean it's uh it's so it's so interesting because it's the one sport also that translates it translates to all languages like everybody understands it but UK is so special that because you saw the sport growing since since nothing and you saw so many great fights in front of you. Yeah I'm very lucky man. Yeah that's I feel very fortunate. What about what about you? Like do you have a plan where you want to retire or you are just enjoying and you love what you're doing? Because I I I think that it's a I don't know. You are enjoying a lot. Yeah. I just enjoy it. I don't think about retiring. No. No. If Dana White quits, I might quit. But that's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually in my contract. No. Yeah. If he leaves, I leave. Yeah. So, in my contract, if he leaves, I don't have to stay. Why that? Something personal. I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for him. Yeah. Yeah. He's my friend. He talked me into doing it. I mean, I started working for the UFC before him. I started working for the UFC in 1997. Uh when it was nothing that nobody was watching. It was we did it at a a small like a high school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama. You had to take a propeller plane to get there. Like [ __ ] scary ass planes. And u that was the first time Vtor fought. Okay. I was actually training at the same gym as Vtor when Vtor made his debut. Vtor was 19 years old and uh we were at Carlson Gracie. Start very young. Yeah. Yeah. We were at Carlson Gracy's gym in Hollywood. Hollywood, California. That's where I was training. I just dumb luck. I was a white belt. I just started. So you how old you were when you started like training or you had some relationship with the sport? Uh well jiu-jitsu. Well martial arts I started when I was 15. Well, I started when I was 14, but really seriously when I was 15, and then I competed in Taekwondo from 15 to 21, and then I kickboxed until I was 22. And then I was doing comedy at the same time. And then I realized I I was half in, half. Something crazy about you is when I hear you explaining some positions, I'm like, this guy has to know how to fight, how to do it because the way he is explain it, I couldn't be able to to explain it. And I'm a world champion. I know the game, but you explain it like way better than anyone else. I I think that you put 10 world champions together, you still explain it much better than all of us. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. Well, I learned how to explain it because I learned how to teach people that didn't know what was happening once it went to the ground. Right. Cuz in the beginning, nobody understood the ground game. Exactly. You know, and I'm a black belt in jiu-jitsu, so when it goes to the ground, I I can explain what's happening. I'm very specific. Well, you have to be specific cuz some people don't know. Like sometimes I'll be watching with my wife at home. Like we watching fights that I'm not calling and she's like, "What's going on?" And I'd be like, "His right arm is in trouble right now." Like, see what see where his elbow is now? If he can get his elbow past this point, he's [ __ ] I'm like, "Okay, now he's fucked." And then I would I would I would explain it and I I would say, "Now what he's going to do, he's going to take his right leg. He's going to wrap it over the top. Oh, he's got it. Oh, he's got it." Okay. He's going to cinch the left leg over the top. That's it. That's it. He's [ __ ] You're the best. Yeah. That's it's just I it's you can't passion. Yeah. Either you love it or you don't love it. And if you don't love it, you can't pretend it won't work. No one's going to believe you. Like if you're just a regular sports guy, say like you call hockey and they hire you. You're going to learn about MMA and you're going to call MMA. Come on. Come on. Yeah. There's no You're not going to be able to do it right. Of course, because you got to do it like you like if I was calling hockey, I'm like, "Yay, this [ __ ] puck went in the net. Woo. I don't give a [ __ ] I don't give a [ __ ] if the puck goes in the net. It doesn't mean anything to me. But when someone gets your [ __ ] neck [ __ ] [ __ ] and you see the guys going to tap he's tapping. That that to me is life. That's everything. That is like it's not just winning. You're not just winning. You're you killed that guy. We can see that. I promise you. We can see your passion every time. Like even right now I'm here. I feel your passion. It's not like I see it. I feel your your passion like you passionate about what you're doing. And that's something that I I admire people like you. Well, I wouldn't do it if I didn't feel that way. I don't have to do it. I don't do it for money. I just do it I mean, this is the only person I work for is the UFC. Everything else I do for myself. Everything I work for myself. Yeah. I'm self-employed except for the UFC. But I've been working for them for 20 [ __ ] three years. Yeah. 23 years. 23 years. Yeah. And then before that, I did it two years before that. So, it's 25 years total. And And when was the the moment Maybe I'm going like too deep, but I I wanted to ask you this like when was the moment when you feel like I'm succeed in life? I feel that I'm I'm having success. And what's for you actually success? Like how do you describe it? Um well, I guess the moment was when I didn't worry about success anymore. I don't think about success. I think about what do I enjoy doing and am I doing it the best that I can do it? That's what I think about. I don't think, oh, I'm going to make more money. Oh, I'm gonna do this and now I want to do I want this goal and that goal. I'm a process oriented person. I think about the process of what I'm doing and then the results come. So, I think like what am I doing? Am I doing it the best that I can do it? And if I'm not, I better I better either quit if I don't want to do it anymore. If I like that's why I stopped fighting. I was there was no money in fighting when I was fighting. There was no money. There was no UFC. And I was just getting brain damage for no reason. And it was really I was I was sparring and having [ __ ] headaches every night. I was like, "What am I doing with my life?" And then I would also meet guys in the gym that were punch drunk. And they those guys scared the [ __ ] out of me cuz back then everybody was stupid, too. And like in, you know, this is 1989. Everybody was stupid. They just beat the [ __ ] out of each other. They didn't There was no like sparring, you know, like technical sparring. It was just wars. It was just fights. Always fights. And there was no future. And I It's still like that in in some gyms. Yeah. A lot of gyms. A lot of gyms. You know, some gyms are intelligent, but there's a lot of gyms that are stupid. I I I don't used to spar at all. Really? Yeah. I don't spar. Only in training camps. But I see you spar in training camps. So, it's only in training camps. Only in training camps. So, when you're not in camp, what do you do? I do like as I told you, spankings maybe and boxing. But before I used to go like more crazy than now before because before I had like more ego. I had I I wanted to pro myself like I can knock you out. I can submit you. I can do this and I but once like you you you winning fights, you're growing as a person, you're like I don't need to prove anything here in in in the gym. I know what I'm able to do and the competition is the day when I have to fight the fight. That's the day when I'm when I'm get paid and and that's it. I'm not gonna going to dam damage anyone no more because sometimes you knock people out and then you go back home and you feel bad. You you're like I could not doing it right. And he's suffering right now. I sent so much people to the hospital. so much people to the hospital like I'm sure I've seen a few broken eyes opened so much damage that right now I'm like no no no sometimes people comes to me like let's spar I'm like I recommend you to know I recommend you to not yeah that's good advice yeah it's interesting right it's like the your ego can help you because your ego is what makes You want to be great, but at a certain point in time, you got to put a leash on it. Yeah. You got to say, "Not not right now, [ __ ] When I let you go, when I say sickum, then I'm going to let you off that leash, but not right now." And like that's Marcelo Garcia always used to say that about jiu-jitsu that you have to open up your game in the gym and don't be afraid about being tapped. He goes, you got to be open. You got to take chances in the gym and learn and put yourself in bad positions on purpose and and you might lose training sessions, but that's not what's important. What's important is growing. I see a lot of guys struggling with that. Like they don't want to lose and train and I'm like, well, a lot of guys never develop a guard because they never want to be on their back. There's a lot of guys like that. They have no [ __ ] guard. Like, which is crazy. It's crazy. There's black belts out there that you get them on their back, they look like a turtle because they don't want to lose. Exactly. They don't They don't know how to have to lose. Like, if you top out, no problem. You get better. Like, yes. H how I don't put myself in this position. But that's the fascinating dance of the mind that allows someone to become a champion versus someone to become just a good fighter. Like whether you can figure that out like when to put your ego on a leash and when to be able to look at yourself objectively like what you're doing with separating all of your disciplines. I think is very important. I think that's a a very interesting way that you put it because I think it's a very intelligent way to approach it. Like get very good at your boxing, get very good at your Muay Thai, get very good at your jiu-jitsu, but do it different. Do it separately. I like every week, every Sunday, I sit down and I do my schedule by myself. Like I'm I'm on Monday, I'm going to do boxing at the from this hour to this, then I'm going to do afternoon. And how do you decide what you're going to do? depends of how I feel what I want to what I want to do. What do you want to work on what I and and what I want to work on and where I feel like I have to develop something. What I want to do what's what do I feel in reality? It's not like all the time um I'm going to do this because I have to do it. No, I don't have to do anything. I choose to do it because I enjoy it. Every time I go to training, I enjoy it. I don't do it because I feel forced. Sometimes in training camp, yes, I feel forced because I feel tired. I don't have food in my body. I don't have any energy and I have to do it because I'm forced. But outside the training camp, I enjoy it. Even if I retire tomorrow, I would keep training like that because that's something that I enjoy. And you said something very interesting before that like right now I'm in in in the moment of my life where everything I do, I do it because I enjoy it. I don't do anything be to make anyone's h anyone happy. Uh I don't live a life dreaming to have another one. I just enjoy the moment I'm living right now. That's so important. That is so important. It's so important to be satisfied with your life. So important to just just live in the moment. It's so hard for people to do. It's so hard for people to do especially if you [ __ ] off too many times. you just like made too many mistakes and slacked off and lazy and this is the best moment we have right now. Right now. This is it. The best moment. This is who we are. Yeah, it is. It is. No one knows what's going to happen tomorrow. So, and you know what's really important? hearing a guy like you say this, hearing a guy like you say this to to young people out there that are listening, they're just not sure like how to approach life because the way you think about life and the way you decide to approach life can change your the whole direction of your future. 100% 100%. And so a young guy is probably listening guaranteed there are people not just one many young people are listening to you talk right now. I'm sure there many people come to you like Joe tell me the secret. Yeah, there are no secret. There's no bottom for the elevator. Exactly. Everything in life you get step by step. The slowest the fastest way to get where you want to be. I was talking to David Gogggins about that. You know who David Gogggins is? Yeah, of course. [ __ ] maniac. David Gogggins said there's no finish line. He's like it never ends. Like it never ends. Never ends. You never make it. You ever feel like you make it? I'm like you never make it. There's no making it. It's [ __ ] One day you you don't think about it anymore and you just every day you're just trying to get better. Of course. And if you don't feel like that, it's not fun. If you're not really trying to do something difficult and aspire to greatness and just trying to do your best all the time, you don't have satisfaction in your life 100%. Everything. Some people thinks that like you accomplish something and that's going to make you happy. That's a [ __ ] Well, you know, I think also there's the poison of social media because social media poisons people to think that one day I'm going to make it. I'm going to be like Conor McGregor driving my yacht around. Like those videos are so bad for you. Those videos of people like, "Look at me. Look at my watch. Look at my diamonds. Look at this. Look at my house. Look at this. Look at these girls. Don't you wish you were me?" Everyone is showing you the best part of their life. No one is going to show you how they are struggling, the problems they are facing in the in the daily basis. I mean like no one is going to show you that. No one's going to show you, look, I have a pimple here in my face. No, I'm going to use a filter to Yeah. hide that. Yeah. It's It's not good. It's not good for young people, that's for sure. Because they aspire to all the wrong things. You ask young people today what do they want? Most of them just want to be famous. They want to be famous and they think that money makes them rich and you skills make you rich, not the money. If you don't have the skills and you don't have the mindset, you're going to keep poor all the time. Not only that, you're not going to have the satisfaction of knowing you got really good at something. There's something about getting really good at something that gives you a deep satisfaction that's not available anywhere else. If you just win the lottery, those are the most depressed people in the world. They all go broke. They win the lottery and then everybody wants money from them and then they feel empty and hollow and they don't know what to do with themselves and now they don't have any goals because they have a hundred million dollars in the bank. They don't know what the [ __ ] to do. Yeah. But in reality they don't have any ability. They don't have nothing to enjoy with you. I say that success comes from not worrying about money. Success doesn't come from making a lot of money. Success comes from now I don't have to think about that. Money is not a thing. Now I think about what am I doing? What am I doing? I want to be the best parent I can be. I want to be the best friend that I can be. I want to be everything I do. I want to do it to the best of my abilities. Yeah. Becoming the best person you could be. Yeah. The best person you can be. When I was a kid, my martial arts instructor told me this that I'll never forget and I say it all the time. Martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential. Through that struggle, through that difficult thing, you will learn how to be better at everything. 100%. 100%. 100% that's that's what I think life is about and that's why martial arts are so exciting to me. You know, people think, "Oh, you like violence. You like this." Like, that's not it. Like, that's why I don't like slap fighting. I think it's stupid. You stand in front of each other, smack each other in the head. I want to see a guy enter into a cage fully prepared with skills against another guy fully prepared with skills. I always describe martial arts, mixed martial arts in particular, as highlevel problemolving with dire physical consequences. That's what it is. It's problem solving with dire physical consequences. That's so cool. Yeah, that's what it is. People most of time, they didn't understand what's behind a fighting game. It's not like only violence. You have to prepare yourself. You have to be smart. You have to be you have to work smart smarter than the the other guy you you are going to face. There's so much factors that it's going to play out that that day. It's so much sacrifices that someone has to make before getting in in inside that octagon. It's not only fighting. It's more than that. I don't know. I don't it's I love that. I don't know. Most of the people before they used to see fighting as something very violent in in Spain. They hate it. Right now it's becoming bigger and bigger and bigger and they're starting to love that. And I and I saw that since the day I started because I used to say to the people like 10 years ago in Spain, what you doing? I'm fighting. Ah, don't do that. Start learning something. Start studying. I'm like, I'm starting. Everyone choose a a career in his life. Someone wants to be a doctor, someone wants to be a constructor, someone wants to be this or that. I want to be a fighter. Yeah. And I have to learn to be a fighter also. But by your example, by being a true champion and by living the way you live and by performing the way you perform, you will change people's opinions and they will see it and they will say, "Oh, this is different. This is not what I thought it was. This is something special. I hope so. For sure, brother. For sure. It's in the cards. Well, listen, my friend. Thank you very much for being here. I appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan and I can't wait to see you inside the Octagon again. And uh all the best, Joe. Thank you very much, bro. Has been a big pleasure for me to be with you. Thanks very much. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye. [Music]
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