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Dealing with Feelings: A Conversation With Dr. Marc Brackett | Good Inside | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Dealing with Feelings: A Conversation With Dr. Marc Brackett
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This content emphasizes the critical importance of emotional literacy and regulation skills, arguing that emotions are valuable data, not inherently good or bad, and that learning to manage them is essential for personal growth, relationships, and overall well-being.
Today I'm talking with Dr. Mark
Brackett. Mark is the founding director
of the Yale Center for Emotional
Intelligence. He's the author of
Permission to Feel and he's the author
of his brand new book, Dealing with
Feeling. Dr. Brackett has developed a
framework that helps kids, parents, and
educators build emotional literacy
skills for recognizing, naming, and
working with emotions in ways that help
us thrive and get in touch with our
capability. I've known Mark for a while
and he is one of my favorite people to
talk with. So, you are really in for a
treat. I think you'll think about
emotions in a different way. You'll
think about coping in a different way.
And without a doubt, you'll end with
practical strategies you can use today.
I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside.
We'll be back right after this.
>> So happy to have you here today.
>> Thank you.
>> I have so many things I want to talk
about, but let's just start with you and
kind of what brings you to this work.
So, you spent your whole career
basically studying emotions, right? And
as parents, emotions are at the center
of our lives. Parents emotions, kids
emotions, emotions about in-laws.
There's a lot of emotions. I just want
to know what really drew you to this
work in the first place.
>> Well, since we're talking with a
parenting expert, um, I'll be frank. I
just feel like my emotional life was
kind of robbed for me as a kid. Um, I
had terrible abuse in my childhood and a
lot of bullying and just felt like there
was no place to go with my feelings. So,
what did I do? I ate them. I cried them.
I banged my head them. I did everything
that you would call unhealthy
>> to deal with them.
>> And just before we continue, cuz I know
that probably that led into so much
research and you really like took that and
and
>> turned it into a whole journey. All
those things you were naming, I just
have to say, were incredibly adaptive
things to figure out as a kid. Yeah.
>> Because emotions are they're so
powerful. You can't stop them. So, if
you don't have coping skills or you
don't have support, you got to got to go somewhere.
>> embarrassment for some people, right? >> Shame.
>> Shame. >> Shame.
>> Shame. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> You know, um yeah, they're all there.
And I think that's one thing that's
really interesting for me because I was
not the um I didn't come from a family
that was very into education. And so um
and I have two brothers and we all have
doctorates. So we're always like we were
together last weekend and we every time
we get together we're always like how do
we end up all becoming doctors
and um
but you know I study and I work with
people who all have perfect SAT scores.
They all have amazing gradepoint
averages. They all play instruments I
never heard of. They all have traveled
to countries I didn't know were ever on
the map. all to get into this place.
Yeah. You know, and uh and the
assumption I had when I was a young
professor was everyone's gonna be
successful because gosh, look at that.
Look at the credentials.
>> And now after 23 years, I've seen otherwise.
otherwise.
>> You know, I don't know if this will take
us off on a tangent. It'll be like a
side quest. We'll come back to the main
quest. Um but I I have three kids and
one of my kids especially,
it just things come really easily. Like
I I someone told me this term like he's
like a life natural like he's been here
before, right?
>> And people are surprised when I say that
that's the kid I worry the most about. >> Sure.
>> Sure.
>> Versus another one of my kids had major
speech delays like had to work so hard.
Things definitely don't come as easily.
And I think about the grittiness and
resilience and and also how much that
child has to build selfworth inside out
because there's no opportunity to build
it based on all of the accolades, right?
Um and I just wonder if that's related
to what you're talking about.
>> Well, what you're reminding me of is the
research which shows that, you know, for
kids who are naturally kind of talented
and skilled,
>> we tend to praise them for that as
opposed to praise them for their effort.
And the research is pretty clear
>> that um praising for like amazing job,
you're so talented, you're so amazing,
gosh, you hit that ball, you know, right?
right?
>> Doesn't actually help them develop
resilience and skills. And then later on,
on,
>> I I say this also, it's funny you
brought this up because you would assume
that a lot of my students would have a
growth mindset.
>> They don't. They only want the A. I
always joke I teach this course on
emotional intelligence and I I have like
you know all these different experiences
I want them to have. I want them to
learn the skills and practice the skills
and they're like what do I need to get
the end the test
>> like I want to memorize the correlation
coefficient between you know I'm like I
don't remember the correlation co it's
my own research >> seriously
>> seriously
>> like that's not what this is about. This
is about like learning a set of skills
that are going to help you in life.
Well, you know, and you and I, I feel
like whenever we talk like just go off
each other all day long. This is going
to be a 19 hour podcast. Um,
listeners, it will not just stay with
us. Um, but one of the things I always
think about is we can't develop skills
for emotions we don't allow ourselves to have.
have. >> Correct.
>> Correct.
>> Right. And we also just can't develop
skills to manage emotions that we don't
have. So if we think about if getting
rejected when you applied to college if
and it wasn't for you but if that is
your first experience with
disappointment ever because you are so
kind of quote naturally talented or
maybe life has been made you know
smoother for you whatever it was
>> why would you have coping skills as an
18-year-old that are any different than
I don't know a six-month old you wouldn't
wouldn't
>> you wouldn't and this is
>> like no one gifts them to you by age.
Well, you my argument which is based in
my research is that you know we weren't
born that way. There's no area of your
brain called emotion regulation. It is
100% learned. 100% learned. And my
research shows and I cover this in my
book which is that I studied thousands
of people during the pandemic and after
the pandemic because I was really curious
curious
because I struggled a lot dealing with
my own feelings during the pandemic. I
mean my mother-in-law moved in. It was
like a whole crazy thing and I failed a
lot and I was I go to bed at night wake
but Mark you're the director of the
center for emotional intelligence. It's
like who cares? He's not very good at
this right now. And I really took that
to heart in terms of like here I am as a
researcher and a expert but I was not
doing well at it. And so I started
studying people and what I found among
tens of thousands of people only 10% of
people said they had any education in
emotions or emotion regulation at home
and like 6 to 7% at school. So we have
people who are, you know, running around
without knowing or using these
evidence-based skills.
>> I think people, it's interesting, call
them soft skills. Yeah.
>> I was actually just talking to a
university yesterday about kind of their education
education
>> um curriculum. And we were talking about
like reversing that like how helpful it
is how how helpful is it to have amazing
mathematical skills if you have no
frustration tolerance. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> Not helpful. It's actually a
precondition to use your cognitive
skills. You and I, I know we we see this
similarly. Um, and so, yeah, I just
think it's a really powerful thing to
think about when your kids especially
are younger. The times when they don't
get invited to that birthday party or
don't make the soccer team.
>> Um, or I always think about, you know,
something that happened with one of my
kids where they all got assigned in
their grade kind of these special
projects. And some of these projects are
like amazing and very cool
opportunities. And some of them,
frankly, are just like,
>> I don't know, fairly mundane. Mhm.
>> And there's also the factor of whether
you're with your like crew of friends or
whether you're with totally random kids
in the first year of these projects. My
kid in that grade had no friends and got
I truly think one of like the worst
projects, right? And I did and and I do
think about this like I had I didn't say
this to him, but I have this like sick
joy of like, okay,
>> this is like this is where the stuff is
made. Like this is it. Because when he's
older, he's probably not going to have
special project week, but he's going to
be disappointed. He's going to be left
out. He's going to have FOMO. He's going
to not get what he wants. And if he's
not building these skills now,
>> well, the stakes are only higher then.
>> Agree. And it's developmental as you
know. And so what I needed, you know, in
kindergarten was different what I need
than what I needed in middle school than
high school than now. I mean, I'm 55. I
run a center at a university. You know,
the world's in a weird place right now.
Everybody's activated. And so the
regulation strategies that I have to
apply in my life now are not the same
ones that I needed when I was 5 or 10 or
15. Mhm.
>> And I think that's the beauty of the
work. It's also what makes people afraid
of it. It's why I think people are so
obsessed with the quick fix.
>> You know, everybody say like, "What's
the one strategy to help me deal with my
feelings?" I'm like, "I don't have the
answer for that. I'm sorry." I
>> I get that all the time, too. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I have one kid tantruming, another kid's
drawing with Sharpie on the wall, a kid
screaming, "I hate you. What would you
do?" I was like, "I have no idea." >> Right.
>> Right.
>> I don't know.
>> Yeah. Take a deep breath and people
think that's the answer for everything.
>> Exactly. You talk about emotions as data,
data,
>> correct? So just can you expand on that?
>> Emotions are signals. They tell us to
approach or avoid. So I'm looking at
your facial expression right now. I'm
looking at your body language. I'm
listening to the tone of your voice and
it's telling me like Mark, you're
welcome here. Or Mark, like I'm not
interested in you. I'm getting the
former just so you know. But um that's
what emotions are for. They ensure our
survival. Uh they help us to thrive in
life. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And I argue that emotions are
information and there are five reasons
why every parent, every leader, every
teacher should care. The first is that
emotions drive attention. So, for
example, if you were bored with me right
now, well, I would dislike you a lot.
>> But, um, you know, it would just it
would be that there's something not
going right. Just like something doesn't
go right at home or in the classroom.
And it's not a bad emotion. It just
means that like what's being presented
to me doesn't click and my brain has
decided to go someplace else.
>> The second is decision-m. So I have tons
of research and others research which
shows that we think that we're like cold
cognitive creatures that were like I
made this choice because of this reason.
Hate to tell you this but you know for
parents like when you've been really
upset with your kid and you've been like
at the end of your rope and you're
really pissed and then you say that
thing that you regretted. How many of
you think you were like in that moment
you're like, I hate my kid right now and
I'm gonna say something that's going to
be meaning cruel. No, it's automatic. It
comes out and um if you were, you know,
intellectual about it, you would be
like, why would I be doing this? It's
not the way it works. The third is relationships.
relationships.
And so, just think about it. You know,
as I said, my facial expression, my body
language, all sends messages. The fourth
is mental health. And the last one we
spoke about already which is about
performance. If you don't have the
skills to deal with your emotions
especially for people who are really
creative. What I find in our research on
creativity is that emotions fuel the
creative process but emotional
intelligence and emotion regulation is
what determines whether that process
becomes a product. There's so many
things I want to double click on, but
just this idea of emotions as data and
information I think is very different
from how a lot of people think about
emotions where there's like positive
versus negative. Right. Exactly. Which
whenever I hear that just an unhelpful
binary because I think about a CEO of a company
company
>> and someone bringing them information
that would make them change a decision. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> I don't know if anyone think that's like
negative information. That's useful
information, right?
>> All emotions are information.
>> Exactly. And some are more uncomfortable
than others. Just like when you're going
one direction
>> on a plane flight and a pilot gets new
information, like there's a new light
going off or weather pattern they have
to change. That's inconvenient. But I
don't think anyone in the air is
thinking that's negative information. My
pilot should Yeah, exactly. Let's just
pay attention to the good stuff.
>> Deny, ignore. No,
>> no way. And so I think that in and of
itself is life-changing for people. Like
there's no positive or negative.
>> We don't. Emotions are data information
as we said. And I think you know when it
comes time to um regulate our emotions.
I think often times people think that
the goal is to get rid of negative
emotions. And I just want to say very
clearly that you can't get rid of your
feelings first. They don't where they're
going to go like it's not like you know
they come out of your head. I always
thought that, by the way, for years
before I really became knowledgeable
about science. I was like, "Someone's
going to go into my brain. I'm going to
carve out that area of my amydala and my
hippocampus, and I'm not going to feel
that anxiety anymore.
I haven't had that operation yet."
>> Um, and I also learned very clearly that
my anxiety is actually helped me get to
where I'm at. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Because I I worry about the things that
I care about. >> Yep.
>> Yep.
>> And if I reframe it that way, anxiety is
no longer a negative emotion. It
actually is motivating.
>> Yes, that's actually so many different
ways of explaining nervous feelings to
my kids. They have really latched on to
this idea of like nervous means I care.
>> I love that.
>> Right. And it it then becomes this like empowering
empowering >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> You know, yeah, I do care about this
test. So, it makes sense that I'm
nervous about it.
>> Exactly. I think the rule that I've
created, which is a simple rule to help
people, is that if you have a particular
emotion for a really long period of time
and it's intense and your coping ability,
ability,
>> you know, is you're struggling with
that, that's when you need to regulate.
But for the most part, you know, I argue
and my research supports this, by the
way, that the first strategy for healthy
regulation is permission to feel. >> Yes,
>> Yes,
>> it's saying, you know what, okay, hi
anxiety, welcome today. I that's just a
different attitude about it. It's a
mindset shift as opposed to oh my god
I'm anxious. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Just a you think just feel it like oh my
god I'm anxious versus
>> hi anxiety welcome.
>> Yeah it is. And I find personifying it
to be so useful. Like there there are
friends we have that are a little pesky.
Like we love them but like they're a
little annoying but we can't can't make
them. They're just at the dinner party.
And like if you ignore them or try to
make them go away they usually get
noisier and they try to get our
attention in more dramatic
>> ways. Now I have a question because what
I've seen and I'm curious what you've seen,
seen,
you know, from your research and also
just from students. Is there
more of an inclination now than years
ago to kind of quote bring uncomfortable
emotions to a zero
>> than there used to be?
>> Yeah. I think that we, you know, have
I gotten to a place where people uh this
I was asked the other day about like
what does it mean to be emotional? And I
said, "Let's let's throw that term out.
It has no meaning. It's ridiculous."
>> And uh and then people, I think, are so
uncomfortable being uncomfortable
>> that they'd rather either suppress or
deny or people just want to figure out a
way like what do you need? What do you
need right now?
>> None of that is helpful.
>> Um and that's why I really feel strongly
about teaching people buckets of
strategies to deal with their emotions.
and permission to feel is one bucket.
But believe it or not, as you probably
know because we talked about what we
were having for lunch earlier. Um, and I
just say this because what you eat and
how well you sleep and the physical
activity you get are really highly
correlated with your ability to regulate.
regulate.
>> With parents, what I find is that in the
mornings they say, "I'm trying to be my
best self, but I just can't. I'm just
like irritable and I'm, you know, my I
set a goal to be my best self as a mom
and then I fail the first thing in the
morning and I say, "Well, how much sleep
did you get?" "Oh, I had a terrible
night's sleep." Oh, so your best self is
possible, but you're not thinking about
what's behind it that's getting in the way.
way. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And the point, I think, of all this is
that people are trying to get rid of
their feelings as opposed to use their
feelings to achieve their goals. Mhm.
>> And that the work I really um what I
strive to help people understand is that
the goal of emotion regulation is not to
control your feelings is to learn how to
use all of your emotions wisely to
achieve a goal.
>> I think that's exactly right. And I
think a good example is like I notice
I'm really frustrated with my kids. I'm
snapping and instead of the spiral of
like I'm a monster, I'm a horrible
parent or you know other people would
find this easier than I do. Like okay
I'm frustrated like what's going on for
me? Um, have I done anything for myself
on the weekend?
>> You know, and then that information,
that frustration could actually help me
if I can recognize it. Permission to
feel frustrated that's happening.
>> Okay, maybe I should carve out I'm
making this up 45 minutes for myself or
ask my partner to do more, right? It
would give me that information if I
listen to it. One thing I wanted to I
was thinking about coming here today and
given you know the people that you reach
and kind of there's a there's a big
controversy right now out there and it's
one that's driving me crazy which is
that being self-aware is self-indulgent
>> and people are arguing like against my
work saying things like you know you're
causing kids to be so reflective that
it's causing them to ruminate and become
depressed even and creating more mental
illness. And I just want to I have to
talk about that with you for a moment
because it's driving me crazy. Yeah.
>> Because people think that doing the work
that we do in schools or with families
is about talking about feelings all day long.
long.
>> Like none of us want to talk about our feelings.
feelings.
>> It's not even appropriate. >> No.
>> No.
>> You know, there's a point where it's
like, "No, we're at school. We're doing
work. Yes, I want it. You can check in
in the morning to see how you're
feeling. Do you need a strategy to help
you get through the morning?" And then
maybe at the end of the day, a couple
times, just like you as a parent, you
wake up, you're going to meet with me to
do this podcast, and you're going to
check in like, am I in a good mood? Am I
in a bad mood? Like, what's, you know,
am I in the right place for this
interview? If not, what's my strategy
for getting to the right place? >> Yep.
>> Yep.
>> But do you see how like that takes 20 seconds?
seconds? >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> It's not this like prolonged,
>> you know, bathing in your feelings. I
just want people to clear that up.
>> We have to clear it up
>> that this is about
self-awareness as a pathway to creating
the life that you need and want. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And um and it's not about indulgence.
>> So a couple things for further defense
of Mark Bracket. You know, I'm a big
Mark Bracket fan. Um okay. So I think
there are extremes and what often
happens when we have one extreme and we
reject it is people immediately go to
the other extremes. They're rarely the
right answer, right? The right answer is
usually something more nuanced in the
middle and it is becoming increasingly
hard to hold multiplicity and nuance,
right? Which probably relates to this
kind of claim.
>> You know, self-awareness is
self-indulgence. I think we used to have
a world of kind of kids feelings. Who
cares? Who cares?
>> Yeah. get your act together, move on.
Kids feelings don't matter. And I do
think not your work, there's been a
misunderstanding and an overcorrection
to the other extreme. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Where one extreme is kids feelings don't
matter. The other extreme is kids
feelings dictate reality or dictate what
the whole family does. So now we've gone
from feelings not matter to feelings
overpowering everything else. They're
both unhelpful extremes. Exactly.
>> And I think what you're saying, which is
my perspective, too, teaching kids how
to manage their feelings is in the
service of making them more capable.
>> Correct. I mean, you can't get over, you
can't always get what you want. And >> exactly
>> exactly
>> when you're a kid or when you're an
adult and frustration tolerance is
important. Delayed gratification is
important. All these things are
important. But the uh but self-awareness
is really important.
>> Yes. Because if you don't know how
you're feeling as a kid, especially like
I was a kid who was I didn't have
language. Nobody taught me the words. I
was trapped with my feelings and I
didn't feel safe and comfortable talking
about them. And as we know, especially
for kids, they shouldn't worry alone. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You should not worry alone. >> No.
>> No.
>> And this is the enemy.
>> Exactly. And so by sharing what you're
feeling and being clear about it because
another big thing just going back to
this whole thing is that people
misunderstand behavior for emotion. So I
come in I hate you and I don't want to
go to school tomorrow and all of a
sudden the parents triggered and they
say things like you know who do you
think you are talking to me that way?
you know, stop being so angry.
When in my case, it was that the kid
spit on me on the bus and I'm feeling
such deep shame and fear that I don't
want to go to school tomorrow. But I've
only learned because daddy's a tough guy
to yell, scream, and say, "I hate school
and I hate you." But then I get sent to
my room because I'm engaging in bad
behavior that, you know, in that and
since my mother was not really skilled
at co-regulating.
>> Yeah. And so the best thing to do is
trigger get out of my face. And there I
was, you know, ruminating in my room
about my fear of going to school
tomorrow when no one knew how I felt.
And if they really knew how I felt, they
probably would have had a better intervention.
intervention.
>> Well, no, I'm so sorry that happened to
you. I mean that. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, thank you for I'm glad I
subleated it into a career of teaching
this stuff.
>> Me, too, for everyone's sake. And sorry
that happened in the first place.
Um, and maybe actually I think it would
be helpful to take that example because
it's so common, right? Which let's just
start with the word. Some version of I
hate you or even just I'm not going to
school today, right? Okay.
>> I think it might be helpful to outline.
We could play around together.
>> A version of my kids feelings don't matter.
matter.
>> A version of my kids feelings dictate
reality and what the whole family or
what they do. And then kind of
>> where do kids feelings matter and where
can we help our kids access their capability?
capability?
>> Yeah. Which which extreme do you want to
take first?
>> Well, first I have to say the feelings
always matter.
>> Yes, feelings always matter.
>> The first example I think is sort of
like the dismissing like I um and what I
found in my research by the way which is
relevant to your community is that the
number one reason why parents don't ask
their kids about their feelings is fear.
And it's fear from multiple
perspectives, but the primary one is
that they are afraid of not knowing what
to do. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And so what do you do when you don't
know what to do? You go to automatic
habitual former ways that you learn
things, which is my mother's way of
like, I'm going to my room and you're
going to your room and we're not
talking. That's the extreme, right?
That's like, suck it up. You know,
you're on your own, kiddo. >> Yep.
>> Yep.
>> Doesn't usually help,
>> right? And I think that's what a lot of
kind of parents tell me like, "Well,
that's how my parents would have handled
it, you know, growing up. You're going
to school. Stop being ridiculous. You're
being dramatic. You're going to make me
late for my job. I'm going to get fired.
I'm going to have no money." I don't
know. Just like some litany.
>> I mean, there's no relationship there.
>> That's like,
>> "That's right. There's no relationship."
And in some ways, in that moment, you
also have no curiosity. Your your
curiosity is shut down. I have no
curiosity about what's underneath. Maybe
the problem isn't my kids saying they're
not going to school. Maybe that's just
represented representative of some
bigger problem they're actually struggling.
struggling.
>> The behavior, you know, there's there's
a symptom.
>> Yes. So, that's one extreme.
>> What's the other extreme that you also
want to make sure you're like, "This is
not what I'm talking about.
>> Oh my god, honey. What went wrong? Oh my
god, I can't handle this. Oh my
goodness. Let's we have to, you know,
let my god, let's go. Let's you know,
like that kind of over dramatic reaction."
reaction."
>> Yes. And I think another version of that
is, okay, let's sit on the couch. Going
to cancel our plans. You're not going to
school today. We're going to talk about
how you feel for the next 8 hours
instead. Right. And
>> actually, you're reminded me of
something. I wrote I I wrote this op-ed
and they decided not to submit it
>> after the last election when a school
here in New York City wrote a note
saying that if the kids were not up to
it, they didn't have to come to school
>> after the election. Yeah.
>> Yeah. And I was like, that is not
emotional intelligence.
Like you have to go to school period. I
mean, you have to learn how to life does
not go always in the direction that you
want it to go.
>> And I think what collapses in that
example and in my example is there's
emotions mattering with the collapse of
capability. Correct.
>> And I think as a parent, I always say
like so much of dealing with kids
distress and anxiety is holding two
things at once. As a parent, I believe
you and I believe in you.
>> Yes. And it and if we lose the I believe
in you part >> 100%.
>> 100%.
>> It's it's it's really it's also really
overwhelming and feels dangerous for a
kid because they're like well I'm
overwhelmed by this.
>> My parent is overwhelmed by this. Like
where do I start and you end?
>> But what you're doing there is you're
instilling a growth mindset in in terms
of and around emotion regulation in
particular. So if your kid is like doing
a climbing thing and they're oh I think
I'm going to fall. You're like honey I'm
watching you and I understand that
you're feeling afraid. I would be
afraid, too. It's a little scary the
first time, but I know you can do this.
>> And so, I'm gonna stand there. I'm gonna
watch you. I'm even gonna coach you a
little bit.
>> But I just know that you're gonna be
able to do this. I got I got you.
>> That second part, the and I know I often
visualize, you know, I need to see a
more capable version of my kid, then
they can access themselves in that
moment. Because if I can't see that for
them, like they they're not going to get
that from me. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> And so, okay, so what's in the middle?
So, we have a kid. I'm not going to
school today. Right? So, let's say we're
like, "Okay, not doing the two extremes in
in
>> the middle." It's like, "Honey, tell me
what happened. What's going on?"
>> And it's not this 4-hour conversation.
It's really getting to know the
experience. You know, honey, I did
notice that your facial expression was
different today. So, my hunch is that
maybe something happened at school yesterday.
yesterday.
>> Can we chat about it?
>> And then you you're in learning mode.
>> Mhm. But the learning mode is not to
then say, well, like you should, you
know, suck it up or like, oh my god. The
learning mode is to help engage in
problem solving mode.
>> I have something that a new research
finding that you're going to love.
>> So, in my research when I've interviewed
now, I'm going to say 15,000 people
>> about their childhoods
about the people who created the
conditions for them to kind of thrive.
There are three characteristics.
The verse is non-judgmental.
And as we know, people I think most of
us felt judged from the moment we came
out of our mother's womb just to be
blunt, you know, like you're not smart
enough, you're not you're too dark,
you're too light, you're too tall,
you're too short, your nose is too big,
your nose, whatever it is, it's like
it's just endlessly judged. And people
are saying, I just want to be around
someone who doesn't judge me. Please
don't judge me. The second is the
listening piece. Can you just listen?
Please don't jump in all the time. Just listen.
listen.
And the third is compassion.
Now, importantly, what I want to say
about this is that in the thousands of
people that I've studied, no one ever
says that the person who created the
best conditions for them when they were
young was smart or a problem solver.
I find that incredible because I don't
think people are looking for other
people to fix them. I think people are
looking for people to create the
conditions for them to thrive and to ask
them good questions so they can develop
the critical thinking skills to then
problem solve for themselves. And I
don't think that we create the
conditions for that as much as we
should. And by the way, only um onethird
of 15,000 people that I studied said
they had someone like that when they're
growing up.
>> I I've I don't know if I'm I'm unable to
snap. We could talk about that later,
but I've never wanted to snap when you
were I really felt the urge to snap for you.
you. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> I was showing off, but okay. Um,
>> you can cope.
>> Yeah, I can cope. I can I can do hard
things. Um, you know, no one's saying
the adult that really helped the most
was smart or a problem solver and how,
you know, we don't really want to be
fixed. The other part of that that I
think so powerful for parents to
remember is when you see your kid as
being able to be capable, as being able
to be resilient,
>> you set up conditions for them to access
that in them. >> Correct?
>> Correct?
>> Every time we say to our kids like, "Let
me do that for you or I'll fix this."
Whether it's literally opening the
Play-Doh jar or it's, "You weren't
invited to that birthday party. I'm just
going to create a slumber party for you
on that same date and we're going to
invite more people and it's going to be
more fun. We're actually saying to our
kids, I don't think you are capable of
coping with this, which is the mirror of
they take in.
>> And so you're bringing up another piece
of the research which I just remembered
which is the second factor is time
>> that nobody has the patience to like
that let their kids figure it out. They
just want to get it done for them.
>> I know.
>> It's like you know what honey just do
that. Let let you know move on. Like
just just go say go say you're sorry. Go
apologize. And it's, you know, saying
you're sorry doesn't really mean
anything as we know. And so just like we
we just want it to be done so we can go
back to our phones
>> or, you know, or do something else. And
people don't have the patience to be present.
present.
>> You know, I've been talking about this a
lot and it's resonating because I think
it goes to what you're saying that the
most underutilized parenting strategy in
a hard moment is doing nothing. >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Right. And I tell people, you should
think about doing nothing with a capital
D and a capital N because then you won't
think, I'm just doing nothing. No, no,
you are choosing doing nothing. It's
like a very hard strategy to use in 2025.
2025.
>> You wait and you trust. And the apology
is such an interesting one because I
have a kid who if in the moment
>> you say like, are you going to say
sorry? I mean, shut down completely. But
if you wait and trust and do nothing,
the authentic apology that comes from
him is the best apology I've ever heard
from a kid.
>> But you have to you actually have to
trust yourself and your kid more than
you trust that exact moment,
>> which is hard.
>> It is. And I find another piece of this
is the role modeling.
>> Yeah. is, you know, I joke about this,
but my mom had a phrase, this is a 1970s
phrase, probably where whenever things
would go wrong, she' I'm going to have a
breakdown. And I caught myself a couple
years ago on a flight and I was like
overwhelmed and somebody said, "You
doing like I'm having a breakdown." And
it's, you know, I picked that up.
>> And so we're picking up the strategies
obviously that our parents are, everyone
is showing us.
>> Yeah. And so you know if you're not and
this is the I think this is where the
explicit versus the implicit learning
happens whereas if we're modeling healthy
healthy
>> selft talk
>> if we're modeling healthy reaching out
for support you know I give an example a
lot with cuz you know in my research by
the way and I my hunch is that you got a
lot of moms who listen we got to get
more dads on this my my goal you know
for this new journey with my book
dealing with feeling is to get more dads
involved because I have found that um
only 3% of people think of their father
as the person who gave them permission
to feel. 3%.
That's a it's a very
I mean to me it's an alarming statistic
>> that no one sees their father as the
person who gave them that permission to
feel. And so the um the point of me
telling you this is people think this is
like such hard work to be a good role
model. But imagine this. I'm daddy and I
had a really rough day at work. Like
just a rough day at work. Like I got
into a fight with a colleague and I'm
irritable and I come home and you're
there as my daughter and you're like,
"Daddy, I want to play. Daddy, I want to
play." And daddy is like not in the mood
to play. And so what my father would
have done would be like, you know,
honey, get out of my face, you know, or
go to your room or go watch television
or, you know, go get a snack. But what
if it looked a little different? What if
it was, honey, I recognize you want to
play and I just want to let you know,
Daddy had a really rough day at work.
Actually, what happened is I said
something that was not kind to one of my
friends at work, and I feel terrible
about it. And I need a little bit of
time to just think about what I'm going
to say to him tomorrow. And if it's okay
with you, I want to be with you, but
now's not the best time. I just need a
few minutes to just kind of settle and
think about it, and then when I come
back, uh, we'll go take that walk or
we're going to play that game. So, what
did I do there? A, um, daddy has strong
feelings. B, daddy's okay sharing those
feelings. C, daddy's reflective.
D, daddy problem solves and thinks about
like solutions. Um, E, daddy sometimes
needs a little space to, you know,
reflect and think through things. All
that happened in a matter of a minute. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> But people don't think that that's the
right thing to do for some reason. Or
they don't think that
>> actually saying it out loud to their kid
is actually teaching them.
>> You know, I think there's also
confusion. I'm not supposed to cry in
front of my kids. I'm not supposed to
put my emotions onto my kids. Yeah.
Putting your emotions onto your kids,
ironically, probably comes from not
managing or verbalizing your emotions.
So they do kind of almost come out of
your head and they come out onto other
people and you're really talking about
regulating out loud.
>> Exactly. Actually, you reminded me of a
I've you know I do so much public
speaking that I get these people come up
to me and so a lot of dads come up to me
afterwards like dude you're vulnerable
and I'm like yeah and but it took me you
know I was 49 by the time I was like
public with my whole life story. So, you
know, it takes time for people, don't
worry. But, you know, and I share a lot
about the terrible bullying that I had.
And this one dad came up to me and he
said, "You know, Mark, I could never share
share
what you shared with us if it were me to
my kid."
>> And I said, "Well, tell me why." And he
said, "Well, my kid would think I was weak."
weak."
And I said, "Can we just pause for a
minute and just chat?" And I said, 'Well,
'Well,
what if your kid was being bullied right
now? How do you think that approach, you
know, would help or not help your kid?
And then the guy started crying with me.
And he's like, "Yeah, you know, it just
I just never really learned, you know,
this vulnerability thing, this sharing,
you know, my what happened to me as a
kid. I just never learned it. And I've
been stuck with not expressing it for 40
years or 30 years. And I just don't I
don't have the skill." And it goes back
to again the skill. the skill. And the
truth is, anytime we do something new
and anytime we do something new that's
completely different than all the
generations before us, it's going to
actually feel scary because our body is
doing something for the very first time.
It's unknown. It's going to be awkward.
And so I I think that's such an
important piece of it. Okay, I'm going
to talk about the rough day I had and
just name that and say, I need space cuz
I'm feeling frustrated and I need a
little time. When your body starts, I
don't know, having a racing heart at the
thought of doing that. I feel like our
brain tries to make sense of that by
saying, "I shouldn't do that." But
actually, your brain can make sense of
it differently.
>> I've never done this before. Of course,
my heart is racing. That's not a sign
I'm doing something wrong. It's a sign
I'm doing something new.
>> Yeah. And actually, now you're reminding
me of another area of research of mine,
which is kind of studying this concept
of becoming the best version of yourself.
yourself.
And so it's an exercise that I think
it's very helpful for parents to do,
which is just to take a moment and
imagine how you want to be seen and
talked about and experienced.
>> So if I were to ask you then, Dr. Becky
>> as a mom,
think about the attributes of the mom
that you want your kids to see, that you
want your kids to experience.
Present, connected, curious.
curious. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Same team.
>> Nice. So, present, curious, connected,
same team. And so, in the moment when
your kid is like getting under your
skin, it's hard to show up as present,
connected, etc. But what if tonight
before you walk into your apartment, you
take a deep breath and you say, "I've
set a goal. I'm a mom who wants to be
seen as connected, you know, as present,
etc. And then kind of just visualize
that as you walk through the door. Do
you think that would
>> Yeah, I think you're talking about the
essence of reggrounding ourselves in our values.
values.
>> Exactly. Mhm.
>> And when we're, you know, with the
world, when we're on social media, when
we're running on the subways and we're
coming home and we're hectic and we're
thinking, "Oh my gosh, I have this work
to do yet and I got to make dinner and
then I got to put the kids to bed and I
got to do this problem solving for
tomorrow, blah blah blah blah blah." And
then we get activated those values and
that version of oursel gets dismissed.
And so it's a practice.
>> Yes, it is.
>> Just like yoga. >> Exactly.
>> Exactly.
>> Never ends. Right.
>> And I have, you know, I do a lot of work
here in the city as you do. I have a a
friend who's a principal of a school
downtown and he takes the bus in from
Brooklyn and he drives by the um Empire
the um Statue of Liberty and he he uses
that as his method
>> and he looks at the Statue of Liberty
and he reminds himself of the principle
he wants to be,
>> you know, and then on the way home as
the parent he wants to be. Isn't that beautiful?
beautiful?
>> Nothing like Lady Liberty to hold you accountable.
accountable.
>> Love it.
>> Never thought about Lady Liberty as my
accountability buddy, but I might have
to change my commute. I love that.
If parents listening,
you know, want to take what you're
talking about and make a couple small
shifts or something that feels actionable,
actionable,
like what are your what are your top go-tos?
go-tos?
>> The top go-to is to just have a mindset
that there's no such thing as a bad emotion.
emotion.
>> That you know what, the feeling is a
feeling. You could make it want to go
away, but it's there for a reason
because emotions come unbidden.
I think the second is,
and this is a big one for me because I
grew up and I still have, my automatic
go-to is self-criticism.
And I can only remember
um being criticized. It's terrible. And
I'm convinced that most of us have been
gaslighted by people in our development,
in our childhoods,
>> and we just start believing it. It
becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>> No one ever taught us to sift through
the way other people were talking about
us and then it metastasizes and it
becomes your identity. And so I just
want to encourage people to move from self-criticism
self-criticism
or other criticism to self-compassion
and other compassion. And that alone I
think could make you know a huge difference.
difference. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I'll give you one more. >> Great.
>> Great.
>> Um I got hundreds but I'll give you my
top three for today.
>> Top threes.
>> My third one is um it might be
surprising. It's to have an other
orientation. I think that we have become
such a me culture. I'm I'm feeling this
way and it's my thing and I had this
with you know during the pandemic my
mother-in-law got stuck with us for a
variety of reasons because of um you
know the pandemic. She's from Panama and
she couldn't go back and it's like it
ruined my routine you know like I like
to have coffee alone in the morning. I
don't want to have coffee with my
mother-in-law staring at me. And all I
realized was after six months for me to
realize is like I'm a narcissist
basically. It's like you're in my house
and I'm feeling this way and I want
>> yourself critical voice Mark.
>> Yeah, you're right. So, thank you for
the awareness.
And then, you know, I came down one
morning and I realized I had no
curiosity about my mother-in-law. Here
was an 81-year-old woman who doesn't
speak any English, who is stuck in
America during a pandemic, whose like
dog is like we're trying to figure out
how to take care of her dog in Panama.
And as soon as I stopped thinking about
my feelings
>> and I thought about her feelings,
everything changed. Actually, our
relationship changed dramatically. And
so even when we're feeling unpleasant
emotions as parents or as even children
can do this,
>> if we take a minute and think about like
who who is suffering right now that I
know, go into your phone and look for
pictures of people. Oh my gosh, she just
lost her husband or you know, whatever
it might be. This person's dog died. And
just reach out to that person and show
your love and support for them.
>> What happens magically is that
>> by you helping them, you feel better yourself.
yourself.
>> Tell everyone where they can find more
from you. I know everyone will want that.
that.
>> Well, my book is called Dealing with
Feeling, which I'm very excited about.
It's all evidence-based strategies to
help everybody regulate their emotions
more effectively. And the best place to
learn more about me is just my website,
>> Well, thank you. This hopefully is not
the last time I have you right here.
>> Thank you.
>> Um, and I love talking to you and thank
you for your very, very important work.
>> Thank you. I hope you enjoyed that
conversation. I know I really did.
Things that are top of mind for me are
that there's no bad feelings. This idea
of positive and negative emotions. Let's
throw that out and embrace what Dr.
Bracket says. Emotions are data and all
data is information and we want to get
information. As always, if you enjoyed
this episode, please take a moment to
rate and review it. or if you're
listening on Spotify or watching on
YouTube, drop a comment. I read every
single one. Let's end the way we always
do. Place your feet on the ground and
place a hand on your heart. And let's
remind ourselves
even as we struggle on the outside, we
remain good inside.
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