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Passive Income Expert: How To Make $10k Per Month In 90 Days!

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This content explores the accessibility and practicalities of starting side hustles and businesses with limited capital, emphasizing a profit-driven mindset, strategic validation, and leveraging modern tools, rather than solely relying on passion.

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A lot of people are looking for passive

income from side hustles. Yeah, it's the

financial ompic and it's more accessible

than ever. Like 90% of the ideas I talk

about can be launched with $500 or less.

And there's enough time in the day to do

these on the nights and weekends. So in

these three suitcases in front of me, I

have three different amounts of money.

And during this conversation, I'm going

to pass you a box at random. And your

job is to tell me what kind of business

you would start with that amount of

money. Sounds good. Let's do this. Known

as the king of side hustles, Chris

Kerner has launched over 80 businesses,

earning millions in the process. And

now, the serial entrepreneur is going to

teach us how to adopt a business mindset

>> and launch simple, overlooked, but

profitable ventures with little money.

>> Many of us struggle financially and they

see a side hustle as a solution to that.

Like for me, growing up kind of poor,

business allowed me to take hold of my

life and make it what I wanted it to be.

And it started when I was 9 years old

and wanting a Red Schwin bicycle. My

friends had a bicycle. My neighbors had

a bicycle and my parents didn't have

money for it. But I lived across the

street from a golf course and these golf

balls would fly in my yard and I would

go to my neighbor's yard and go across

the street, dig through the ditches and

I'd pull out all these golf balls and I

started selling them. That was my first

business. That taught me that business

is approachable and we all have ideas,

but we usually don't do anything about

it. Why? I think number one, they're

afraid of what people think. Number two

is they don't have the tools or they're

not connecting the tools with the ideas.

If we can get over those, the world is

our oyster at that point. I have $1,000.

What side hustle would you start?

>> The first thing that comes to mind is my

favorite business idea of all right now.

This is a zero employee business. It's

highly profitable and that would be so

how important is it for you to love the

thing to be successful at it? Ignore

passion. Follow the profit until you can

afford to follow your passion. Do they

need a business partner? No. If you look

at the stats on business failure rates

with companies that have co-founders,

it's significantly higher than companies

that have solo founders. And how does

someone validate a business idea? If I

had to pick one tool, it's one that one

in four humans use every day.

I see messages all the time in the

comments section that some of you didn't

realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

could do me a favor and double check if

you're a subscriber to this channel,

that would be tremendously appreciated.

It's the simple, it's the free thing

that anybody that watches this show

frequently can do to help us here to

keep everything going in this show in

the trajectory it's on. So, please do

double check if you've subscribed and uh

thank you so much because in a strange

way you are you're part of our history

and you're on this journey with us and I

appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you.

Chris,

>> who are you and what is the mission that

you're on?

>> I am a father. I am a husband and I'm a

serial entrepreneur and I love talking

about business and starting businesses

and inspiring other people to do the same.

same.

>> Why business has given me everything.

Um, growing up kind of poor, it was my

outlet. It was my way of just kind of

taking hold of my life and making it

what I wanted it to be. And I have

immense gratitude for that. Um, and I

love I just love talking about it. I

it's the only thing I know you I can't

talk to you about history or nutrition

or anything, but when it comes to

business, I just love it and I want

other people to love it as well. How

have you made your name in the world of

business? Because I've heard your name a

lot recently. People call you the king

of side hustles.

Where has this come from? I think I just

published my life on the internet now.

Um, I I'm always testing and launching

and starting businesses, but only over

the last couple years have I started

publishing that. And

I didn't try to be like the king of side

hustles. That's not something that I've

ever like intentionally tried to brand

myself as, but I think people see what I

do as a side hustle and they call it

that. But I think that anything is

scalable. Any side hustle could could be

a multi-million dollar business. Um, I

mean, we we live on a planet with eight

billion people and we're all connected

and anything can be scaled.

>> And you make a lot of content now, so

you've probably had a bit of a feedback

loop in terms of understanding what it

is that you say and do and create that's

resonant with people and also why it's

resonant like what is the crux of what

people like my audiences are are looking

for. As humans, we all want a silver

bullet. We want a solution to our

problems and many of us struggle

financially um and they see a side

hustle as as an outlet to that or as a

solution to that. I think everyone has

ideas. um most people are very hesitant

to execute on those ideas. And so when

they see someone like me freely

executing on all the ideas, it hopefully

it opens their mind and helps them look

at their ideas in a different way or a

more approachable way and maybe gives

them confidence to do the same. In the

boxes in front of me here, I have three

different amounts of money. $500, I

think I have $1,000, and $5,000. And

during this conversation, I'm going to

pass you a box at random. And your job

is to tell me what kind of business you

would start with that amount of money

because I know my audience, you know,

they're many of them are interested in

starting their own business one day. And

I use specifically sort of low amounts

of money just to make it as accessible

to them as possible. So, we will do that

at some point. I'll pass you the boxes.

You give me three business ideas. You'll

start with $500, $1,000, and $5,000. Um,

but I want to get a view on on you and

the businesses that you've started and

the sort of the variety of success

you've had. So, can you give me an overview?

overview?

>> Yeah. So, I was 9 years old living in

Utah and I lived across the street from

a golf course and these golf balls would

fly in my yard and I don't know what

gave me the idea, but I started selling

them. Um, I just wanted money for a

bike. I wanted this Schwin bicycle and

it was red and my friends had a bicycle,

my neighbors had a bicycle and my

parents didn't have money for it. And so

for whatever reason, I connected that

white golf ball in my grass with money.

And I would go to my neighbor's yards,

I'd go across the street, I'd dig

through the ditches, and I'd pull out

all these golf balls. I'd wash them. And

then I put up this huge piece of plywood

in front of my house that said golf

balls three for a dollar. And that was

my first business. And at the time, it

was just normal. It was natural. Uh I

didn't know any different. And now I

have a 9-year-old, and I was nine when I

did that. And we live on a busy road

today. I lived on a busy road then. And

the thought of him like negotiating,

haggling with grown-ups wearing polo

shirts on our doorstep is unfathomable.

But that's what I was doing. And that

planted the seed that kind of taught me

that business is approachable. Um,

preferably it's approachable.

Approachable and scalable can be the

same thing. They don't have to be at

odds with one another. So, and how many

businesses have you started since then?

>> I lose count. I have a spreadsheet. Um,

but it's at least 80.

And what's the what have the outcomes

been? How much money have you made? What

kind of how has that changed your life?

What freedom has that given you?

>> Yeah. So, cumulatively uh all of the

businesses have generated low hundreds

of millions of revenue. Um low tens of

millions of profit. Um but on a real

number basis,

the majority of them have been abandoned

or fizzled out or failed or there was

too much opportunity cost so I pivoted

to something else. Um, it's just a

numbers game.

>> And how has that changed your life? What

does your lifestyle look like?

>> My life is awesome. Um, we built our

dream house in our 20s. Uh, we had all

four of our kids in our 20s. We travel a

lot. Uh, we're I've been married for 17

years. We're a very close family. We

take a lot of trips. Um, we live in a

good school district, but my kids go to

public school and, um, we have

everything we need and more, and we're

very grateful for that.

What is the overt sort of underpinning

mentality that's required for someone to

be successful at starting businesses in

the way that you started them? Starting

these side hustles at volume and seeing

success. Is there like a foundational

mentality or personality or character

trait required before we get into the

tactics? Yeah, the

I should say that the the pain of your

problem needs to be greater than how

much you care about what people think

about you. It needs to get to that point

because by far that is the biggest

roadblock to success is people caring

too much about what people think about

them. And so they don't want to do the

thing or they don't want to talk about

doing the thing because some random

person from high school follows them on

Facebook and might comment something,

right? Which is really silly, but I I've

been there. I get it. Right? If we can

get over that, if we can just flip the

switch in our brain that says people are

thinking about me, people are caring

about me and just switch that to off.

Right? Because the world is our oyster

at that point. And in terms of where we

sit at this moment of time with

technology, with AI, with in fast

internet, with mobile phones, do you

think this is the best time for people

to start something to to start a side

hustle or to try? Every day that goes

by, the timing gets better for people,

right? Things are getting more

competitive, but there are more tools

than ever. Um, 10 years ago, if I wanted

to start a business, and this is like

the internet's in full swing, social

media is in full swing, I probably had

to spend a lot of money or move to San

Francisco or raise venture capital.

That's like I I would love for you to

try to convince me. Try to give me an

idea where you have to raise money or

where you have to go allin or where you

you have to quit your job. It doesn't

exist. With all these AI tools, software

tools, you can make a website with one

prompt. You can make an app with one

prompt. You could post to Facebook

Marketplace and have hundreds of

inquiries within an hour. You could post

Facebook ads. You could go to

Craigslist. Like, you could put a sign

up in front of your house. You could go

launch a survey to people. Like, there

are so many tools for testing and

validating and experimenting with these

concepts that it is more accessible than

ever. Why don't people?

I think number one is they're afraid of

what people think. Number two is they

don't have the tools or at least they're

not connecting the tools with the ideas,

right? They'll use Facebook Marketplace

to sell a sectional, but then they won't

think to use it when validating their

woodworking idea, right? They're just

not connecting the dots. There's too

many tools in a sense, so we don't know

how to tie them all together. Um,

they also probably don't know

like how much the law of abundance is a

real thing, right? People think business

is a zero sum game. What does that mean?

>> Well, they think that things are

oversaturated. They'll have an idea for

a product or a service and then they'll

get really excited and then they'll go

Google it and then we'll see it exists

and they'll move on. And when I do that

and I see it exists, I'm like, "Yes,

this is it. Someone someone went to the

front lines of the battlefield and

validated this for me." And then I'll go

to the web archive. I'll go to who is

and I'll go look at what their website

has looked like over the last decade.

See where they started. Maybe their

product was $99. Now it's like 49 every

2 months. Interesting. Okay. I'll look

at the the copy of their headline. I'll

look at like how many tabs they have on

their website. Do they post their

Instagram feed on? I'll look at all

these things and see how it's evolved

over time and think awesome. I'm going

to start where he's at today. like this

guy already proved it out for me. He

took all the risk. This is amazing. This

exists. I don't need to like do it

better. I don't need to do it

differently. I just need to do the same

thing. Um and the market is big enough,

the world is big enough to where I can

win as well.

>> You said um web archive. What role does

web archive play? What is that for

anyone that isn't familiar? And how do

you use that?

>> Yeah, it's just a tool that shows

snapshots uh over time of what a website

looks like, right? So, it's a great way

of kind of reverse engineering what

businesses have done to be successful.

And then there's another tool called

Similar Web where you can see what their

traffic has been over time. And you can

kind of overlay the two and you can say,

"Oh, interesting. When they when they

redesigned their website to be more

mobile friendly, their traffic went from

3,000 a month to 4500 a month.

Interesting. I'm just going to make it

mobile friendly from day one." Right? So

we are at a great advantage when we

start where our competitors or our

future competitors already are instead

of starting where we think we need to be

starting like trying to be different or

innovative or unique. In my experience,

that's more of like a signal of our

pride or our ego. We feel kind of like

weird or odd or even dirty or unethical

if we're just like copying and pasting a

business. Even if we had the original

idea ourselves when really there's

nothing to be ashamed of. We don't want

to steal their intellectual property or

their logo or anything, but copy what's

already working.

>> People think, you know, people don't

think that that's a thing because they

think if I copy a business that's

already working, then I'm not going to

get any customers because that this

existing business has all the customers.

>> But it's interesting. I had someone on

the show where they talked about how

some of the greatest entrepreneurs in

the world basically just copy 95% of the

blueprint. I think it was Walmart. I

think he was talking about Walmart, but

yeah, they copied other like regional

grocery chains. Mhm. Copying as a strategy.

strategy. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

Have you done that?

>> Oh, absolutely.

>> Give me an example.

>> Okay. Well, I I had a phone repair

business in when I was in college, 2010,

and I got a call one day from someone

that said, "Hey, Chris, I want to buy

all of your broken iPhone screens." Do

you have any broken iPhone screens?

Sure. We don't throw them away cuz we

think it's bad for the environment. We

just have a box of them. How much will

you pay me? three bucks a piece. Why?

Why? Why will you pay me $3? It's just

broken glass. And they said, "Well,

there's actually a way of

remanufacturing these. We can send them

to China. We can remove the broken

glass, put new glass on them, and then

we can resell them as a remanufactured

unit." And that was just like a light

bulb, right? So, most people, I think,

at this point, would say, "Yeah, like,

yeah, where do I ship these?" You know,

but I was like, "Oh, I need to be in

that business. I want to copy that guy

who called me." right now. I don't know

what his website was. I don't know. I

don't know what the name of his business

was. There was no web archive at the

time to look at. I just wanted to copy

the business model cuz I thought this is

going to be a thing. I'm in the

industry. I know the industry. I'm going

to do this as well. We did 2 million the

first year, then five, and then nine,

and then we exited a few years after that.

that.

>> It's interesting, but you know, you

often don't think that

everyone's in search of a new idea. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> And it's tough to find new ideas. Yeah,

like I think was it Einstein that said

there's no such thing as a new idea?

Sounds right. But you have an

orientation just to look at existing

models and to replicate them. Do you put

a spin on it at all? I'll develop my own

spins over time. Right. Because we're

all a product of our environment. And so

in in the case of this business, I

started copying. Exactly. Right. Um I

went and found people in China. I just

went to Alibaba. I messaged a ton of

people that sold iPhone screens and I

said, "Do you recycle? Do you recycle?

did you recycle? And like five or 10% of

them said yes. So then I shipped them

samples and then they shipped me some

back and and then over time I started

like taking some marketing principles

principles from previous businesses like

Facebook ads, cold calling and I started

applying them just cuz I didn't know how

this other competitor was finding

success. I knew he was cold calling and

that was working. That's all I knew.

Remember I didn't even know the name of

his business. And so over time, you

start using your previous experiences to

apply these tweaks to the business and

to make it your own. But if you do that

right at the outset, right? Like if I

got a call and he said, "I want to buy

your broken iPhone screens." And I said,

"Okay, I'm going to do that, but I don't

want to just sell iPhone screens. That's

lame. I'm going to do Samsung." Right?

Pretty good chance there's not even a

market for that or there's not even a

method for that. And because of my my

ego, my pride, my unwillingness to just

copy what's already working, I wouldn't

that I wouldn't have that successful

business in my back pocket. Right?

>> So, if you do twists in the beginning,

it's kind of like your um I'm kind of

thinking of an analogy like if you're on

a long road trip and you start taking

detours early on or if a flight is on a

flight path and he starts like getting

off track just a little bit at the

beginning, he's going to end off he's

going to end up hundreds of miles away

from his destination. But if he starts

making tweaks along the way, then he'll

be much closer to where he would have

been anyway.

>> Mhm. And you might reach a better

destination with some of those

>> tweaks because you're blending it with

your your experience, what you know

better than the person that you're copying.

copying.

>> And so it's important to to copy the

model exactly at the beginning because

you're also going to learn what it is

about that existing model that works. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> And therefore what you can iterate on,

change, expand. If you if you didn't,

then you might miss something. Exactly.

Cuz so often I made the mistake of

looking at another business and saying,

"Oh man, why are they doing that? Why

are they charging like that? Why? Like

they're charging all these different

things. That's so confusing." I made

this mistake. I had a an e-commerce

fulfillment business where brands would

send us all their products. We had this

big warehouse and we would ship all all

of their stuff out, right? And I was

like, "Why do they have storage fees,

pick pack, and ship fees? They they

charge fees for tracking their

expiration dates. They charge extra fees

if there's five items in a box versus

four. Like there's so much friction

there. That's so messy. Like we're going

to make this simple. We're going to just

one flat fee, no storage fee, and that's

going to be our differentiator, right?

And then over time, over the course of

months and years, we learned, oh,

storage fees. It's because sometimes

your customers go out of business and

then you're left holding the bill and

like your storage costs are actually

very high but there's nothing to pass

on. Oh, pick back and ship fees because

you learn all these things and you're

like, "Okay, I wasn't like this genius

that had an MBA. I was just like trying

to put my own spin on it cuz I thought I

was smarter than that business owner."

Turns out someone that's been doing this

for 15 years versus 15 days knows a lot

more about the industry than me. And I'm

much better off just copying his

pricing, copying the layout of his

website, copying the size of the

warehouse he has, copying the same niche

that he's going after, cuz that's

clearly working for him. So, I don't

make that mistake anymore. I don't I

don't assume that other competitors are

idiots, right? Yeah.

>> I've been proven wrong too many times. I

assume that they're doing that because

they've learned the hard way. Yeah.

>> And if I copy them, then I won't have to

learn the hard way.

>> I had um several of our executives over

at my house over the last couple of days

and we were looking at different models

of so basically we're looking at other

companies that do similar things to us

that have been around for a long time.

And the question that I ended up asking

at one moment when I was had the exact

same epiphany. I was like why do they do

it that way? Isn't that shitty?

>> And there was a second where I think we

were tempted to try and reinvent the

wheel. But the question I ask myself now

with the wisdom of like many years of

business is like why did it end up that way?

way?

>> Which is why did our competitor who's

been doing this for 50 years end up there?

there?

>> Because that as you said there's clearly

a set of things that have happened that

have made them conclude whether it's at

scale or some other factor that's made

them conclude that this is the best way

of doing it. And just like you I've been

wrong so many times where I've thought

they're just idiots. That's why they

they they can't see this obvious thing.

But actually their model is stress

tested in the market much more than mine

is. So maybe I should

>> I should put my ego aside and at least

start how they start as you said which I

think is really important advice.

>> Yeah. Well, there are times when a

company just keeps doing something

because it works. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And so they don't take the time to test

something that works better, >> right?

>> right?

>> But it's almost impossible to guess what

that is, right? Like if a if a clothing

brand is growing their business entirely

through Facebook ads um and they've just

never tried Google ads, maybe Google ads

could convert twice as better. Twice

twice better, right? But I don't want to

guess that. I just want to start with

Facebook ads and then I'll still take 5%

of my budget and start testing other

concepts. But nine times out of 10, I

ended up just coming right back to

Facebook ads. It got me thinking about

how in business basically everything,

again speaking broadly here, can be put

into one of two categories. either like

old problems where thousands of people

have come before you and the same

solutions and same thinking is still

relevant and then new problems you know

things like AI have created a set of new

problems new opportunities as well and

what I tend to find is that like 95% of

the things in business are like old

problems like hiring cash flow how

finance is done legal all those kinds of things

things

>> and the and when when you're dealing

with a new an old problem expertise is

usually the answer which is like find

someone who knows hire someone or mentor

or whatever and then you have these new

problems where

>> there is no blueprint in our industry.

It's a new new challenge. So

experimentation is the answer. Does that

like broadly hold in your in your mind?

>> Oh 100%. Yeah. I I like to say test

everything except drugs.

>> Like we're always testing. Um it's the

basis to everything we do.

>> But do you test when it's an old problem?

problem?

>> Can you give me an example? So

like things like cash flow management um

>> hiring principles around like probation

and uh notice periods

um a lot of legal structuring and deals

things with like a wellestablished president

president

>> well established presidents where like

nothing has fundamentally changed in the

world that makes that invalid. Yeah, I

think if it's an old problem, I look to

an example of someone within the last

decade that's solved it in an

interesting way and I'm more likely to

copy that. Like in hiring, traditionally

companies will they'll spend hours and

weeks or days hiring, going from round

to round to round, person. And if you

look at Y Combinator, arguably the

greatest, you know, startup incubator in

the world, they have seven-minute

interviews. Um, and they said they would

make it five minutes, but it just felt

rude, right? and in their interviews,

they really know in the first three

minutes if it's a fit or not, and then

the interview's done. Like, they're

either in or they're not. I I approach

hiring the same way. Um, I would much

rather um take a like a a law of large

numbers approach to it and give five

people 30 days to show what their skills

are as opposed to spending 30 days going

all in on one person. Because in my

experience, that one person that I spent

30 days on is not any more likely to

succeed than those those other five

people that I might be testing. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

And your example of that storage company

you started. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> It sounds like you hit an old problem.

>> Yes, very much so.

>> And you tried to innovate and

experiment, but this was an old problem

where the laws of human beings and how

they behave and businesses going bust

was still pertinent.

>> Yeah. And at the end of our our 2-year

experiment, like we look just like all

of our competitors, right? So, if we

would have started there, we could have

saved two years.

>> And this is what I find is founders

waste years trying to experiment where

old problems are still um strong and

still hold. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> And this is what I the mistake several

of the mistakes I made in my company was

I should have spent all of my time

experimenting on the new problems.

>> Uhhuh. and should have hired people to

tell me um how to navigate the old problems.

problems. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> What what was your um I think one of the

videos that made you go pretty viral was

your story of

>> BIES. We don't know what BIES is around

the world. I think it's a US brand. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> But this shows I think how you've always

had an orientation to think slightly

differently or in innovatively. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> What happened with BIES?

>> So this was during the time when I was

running that business shipping products

for other companies. Right. Bies is a

gas station brand uh with only 50

locations. And from those 50 locations,

they do billions of dollars of revenue.

I say gas station, they're between

40,000 and 80,000 square feet. Wow.

>> They're massive. They have an amazing

brand, an amazing logo, and they just

have a lot of trust from their

customers. But these gas stations are

like they're on the way out to these

road trip destinations. They're out in

the middle of nowhere. And so if you're

if you live in Dallas and you're driving

down to the beach, you're going to stop

by Bies on the way there and on the way

back, and you're probably going to spend

hundreds of dollars, right? You're going

to fill up the tank, then you're going

to buy shirts and snacks and all that

stuff. So, at the time we were running

this e-commerce fulfillment business, we

went to Buckies. I brought my cousin, my

business partner, um, just to kind of

show him the experience. And we were

just having a conversation. I remember

exactly where I was. I was like under

this underpass, this huge under pass in

DFW. We were driving home and I said,

"Man, these guys must kill it online.

They must sell so much stuff." Um, >> why?

>> why?

>> Because I knew that Disney sells like

billions of dollars of t-shirts on their

website, right? I read a stat recently.

So, I kind of just took that data point,

connected it to Bies, and said, "All

right, Bies is a fraction of the size of

Disney, but they have the same amount of

brand loyalty. People love their shirts.

You'll see their shirts all over the

world, even though they only have 50

locations like in the Southeast, right?"

And so we went to their website and

there was no shop button. There was no

place to buy their stuff and I was just

like like all the light bulbs were going

off at once, right? It was like, "Oh my

gosh, okay, we need to reach out to

them. Like we need to bring them

online." I just had all these ideas and

my cousin is is much more balanced than

I am. He's like the the operator and I'm

like the ADHD crazy guy, right? So his

role is to like calm me down and he's

very good at that. But I just couldn't

be calmed down from this. I'm like, "No,

no, no. We got to do something here.

We're going to buy one of everything.

We're going to hire a photographer to

take pictures of it. We're going to

launch our own BIES online store, and

we're going to try to go viral." Like,

it's viral or bust, right? If we don't

go viral, then I'll just be eating these

unhealthy snacks for the next 3 years of

my life. And so, we did. We bought one

of everything. Uh, it cost thousands of

dollars. I brought all four of my kids.

And, uh, we brought it back to our

warehouse. We took pictures of it. We

launched a website. Um, and I emailed

all the reporters I could find. Uh, and

one of them just loved the idea. He ran

with it. And so he reached out to BIES

for comment cuz they wouldn't respond to

my cold emails. I wanted to launch this

like with them in tandem, but who am I?

They didn't care about me. And I don't

blame them. And so he wrote this big

article about me. Millions of people

read it. All these other news outlets uh

wrote about it. And we did hundreds of

thousands of of dollars in our first 30

days organically from that.

How did Bies feel about that?

>> They wanted us to make some key changes

to the website. They wanted us to like

basically put disclaimers everywhere

that said we are not Bies. We're not

affiliated with Bies. They wanted us to

change the name. It had the word beaver

in the name. That's their mascot. They

just they didn't want it to be confusing

at all. So, we made all those changes

and then we got like the unofficial

thumbs up from them. They said, "We're

not going to sign anything, but like you

have our blessing. Um, have fun." And

did that website make you a lot of money?

money?

>> Yeah, it still is. It's been 5 years. We

still own it, 100% of it, and it's going great.

great.

>> And it's made you millions. >> Uh-huh.

>> Uh-huh.

>> What can someone listening take from

that in terms of applying that to their

own life, finding opportunities like

that out in the world, or is that just a

oneandone? Is there only one opportunity

like that? Okay. So, specific, I get

asked that question a lot. How could

someone do that with another brand?

I don't know. If if there was another

brand out there like that, I would be

doing it, right? Trader Joe's is

similar, but they're very ligious. Um I

think that was kind of lightning in a

bottle for that particular experiment as

in launching an online brand for an

in-person business. Okay. But people

should not be disheartened hearing that

because on a macro level like people

should take their curious ideas very

seriously. They need to shorten the

amount of time spent between having the

idea and doing something about that idea

>> because that will strengthen their bias

for action muscle, right? We all have

ideas, some of them good, some of them

bad on a regular basis. We usually don't

do anything about it. It's just a

passing thought, right? Whether it's a

business idea or a hard conversation I

need to have with something, any idea,

right? But the the the more we shrink

the amount of time between doing

something about that idea and having the

idea that that idea, the more often

we'll do that. And it becomes this

self-perpetuating snowball that just

compounds. And then before we know it,

we'll get more ideas. We'll do more

about those ideas. We'll be testing

things. We'll be learning tools. We'll

be experimenting. And we'll have a whole

portfolio of businesses. Is there

something in your mentality or

perspective though where you walk into a

Buckies and you even think about how you

could do something whereas most people

walk into a Bies and buy their stuff and

leave? Like is there something

foundational in the way that you're

looking at the world? Yeah. But I don't

think I'm any different. I think um I

think a lot of people have ideas like

that. Like you walk into a BIES and you

see something about something that could

be improved and people have these

passing thoughts and they move on. I

think that you become an expert at doing

something about those ideas. When you do

something about those ideas, you just

you get better at at what you do, at

what you test,

>> cuz you've built up some kind of muscle,

which means that you don't really care

about it seems failure as much as the

average person. And also in that

particular case,

>> the average person might think, well,

I've got no experience in doing that.

>> Mhm. No, no one has any experience in

anything until they do it, right? Like

every every expert started out as a

beginner, right?

Sometimes though, people try this and

they learn h doesn't give them energy.

It's not for them. That's okay. Now,

when they have ideas, they can know, all

right, box checked. That's not really

for me. That entrepreneurship thinks

someone else needs to do that. And

great, good. All the power to them. I

just want people to answer that question

for themselves. I hate seeing regret in

people's faces. Like I have friends that

want to start a business. They've always

talked about it and I know they would be

good at it and I know it just eats them

up and they have really really good

ideas objectively and I I just hate

seeing them have that question for the

rest of their lives. I just want them to

to taste entrepreneurship.

Is it for everybody though? You know,

you can think think of all your friends. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> You can probably put them in groups of

this person should, this person

shouldn't. Mhm. And what defines who

goes in which group?

>> To me, it's how far they go in doing

something about that idea because I will

have friends that will text me ideas or

talk to me about ideas and then I never

hear from them again about that thing. I

don't worry about them. Right? I I feel

like there's a selection bias at play.

Like if they really wanted to do

something about it, they would get a

little further down the line. They'd

follow up with me. that's, hey, I did

this thing. Cuz I'll always give them

tips and feedback. You should do this.

You should try this. And they'll follow

up. And then, you know, at some point

along the line, it'll die, right? But if

they don't get any further than just

telling me their idea, then

I don't I don't lose sleep over them.

>> So, it's kind of surviv. It's kind of

sort of self- selecting itself anyway.

>> It is entrepreneurship.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. But then I have other

friends that are like they'll follow up,

they'll follow up, they'll follow up,

and then and then it dies, which is

okay. A lot of my ideas die, too. And to

me, that's a signal that it was supposed

to die, right? I'll just move on to the

next thing. Um, so it's those people

that maybe I'm just biased and they look

more like me, you know? Um, maybe that's

not an accurate signal or not, but if

they look more like me, then that's a

signal that they they should get further

down the line and actually launch

something that gets to revenue. Yeah.

>> In your head, think of one person you

know that should never start a business. >> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Why did you think of that person without

telling me who they are? because they

make a lot of money at their job and

they like their job well enough. They're

not miserable. Um, and they're in their

late 40s and they probably feel like it

would be too big of a risk to start something.

something.

>> And do you objectively agree that it

would be too big of a risk for them?

>> I do.

>> So, you're looking at that on a

risk-reward basis thinking the reward

doesn't out outweigh the risk here for you?

you?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz people come to me like

hoping that I'll encourage them to quit

their job, right? Like begging me to do

that without actually begging me. And I

don't want to do that. Like I I've never

had to quit a job. Like I I started with

entrepreneurship, right? So the thought

of being 48 with four kids and quitting

my $400,000 a year job to test

something. It just sounds crazy to me.

>> On the other hand, think of one person

you know that isn't an entrepreneur, but

definitely should be, but you always

think, "Why don't they do it?"

>> Yeah. Why did you think of that person?

>> Because it's a person that comes to me

the most often with ideas and they're

really, really good ideas. He's an

engineer. Um, and so he sees the world

in that way. Engineers make great

entrepreneurs. Um,

and he has a great work ethic and he's

like mid-career but not not so far

along. And I know objectively that he's not

not

he's actually quite miserable in his

job. And I hate that for him because I

see the talent that's there. And I want

him like I think he would excel and I

want to see that dream come true for him.

him.

>> Why isn't he doing it?

>> I think it it's insecurity. >> Fear.

>> Fear.

probably fear of just letting go of

something certain that's provided his

family a nice lifestyle and not getting

that back again ever. Um

I think that insecurities are at the

root of our best and our worst selves

and it can drive us to be our best or

worst selves um depending on how

self-aware we are about those insecurities.

insecurities.

Is there a little bit of a flaw in his

thinking in your perspective? Like why

is it you you still even though what

he's saying there about you know what

you think he believes there about the

security for his family is true you

still think he should

>> which suggests that there's some kind of

flaw you see in the way he's thinking

about it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

Because he doesn't have to quit his job.

um there's enough time in the day to do

this on the nights and weekends to to do

enough of it to really prove itself out.

whatever our side hustle is, uh it has a

very low ceiling if we're only working

on it um after hours, right? Let's say

we're spending 20 hours a week on a side

hustle and it makes us $50,000 a year,

but our job pays us $200,000 a year and

we spend 40 hours a week on that. One

thing that I've noticed, which is kind

of contradictory to how I feel about

quitting something, um, is when we go

from 20 hours a week on our the $50,000

a year side hustle to 40 hours a week

and we quit the full-time thing, that

$50,000 a year goes to 500,000, right?

We double the amount of hours, but we 10

times the amount of money that comes

from it because of the fact that we burn

the boats that it has to work. I just I

don't want people to burn the boats too

soon, right? Like there has to be a

pathway. Like let's say our Facebook ads

are converting really well. We've tested

scaling it and they're profitable and we

know what that would look like. But if

we scale it, then we're going to have

more customer service complaints. We're

going to have to do more architecture of

the website. But we like we see a path

to scaling and it's already profitable

and we know that like probably my boss

will take me back like we have kind of

these uh safety nets. That's like the

perfect time to really burn the boats.

Not when like we have an idea or we've

tested it a little bit but not

thoroughly. Um that's too soon in my opinion.

opinion.

>> And but by burn the boats you mean the

analogy of I guess some of the the

wartime leaders who would pull up on an

island that they were invading and burn

the boat so that they had no plan B.

>> Mhm. Exactly. Yeah. to quit.

>> Do you think that really matters? The

whole idea of a plan B. Do you think

people should have a plan B when they

embark on entrepreneurship?

Can I contradict myself 100%. All right.

So, the rational Chris, the Chris with

four kids says absolutely like you got

to be a dad, you got to be a husband,

you got to provide for your family,

right? Um, and again, there's so many

tools out there for testing, for

scaling, for outsourcing. We could find

a business partner to help pick up the

slack. We could use our kids, we could

use our spouse, whatever. There's so

many ways to really vet something out

before quitting that we don't have to quit.

quit. But

But

the other side of my mouth, there's been

um two times in my entrepreneurial

career when someone burned the boats for

me, right? I pull up to an island and

it's I've got my plan B. I'm testing

this business. This business is

profitable. It's paying the bills. And

then someone else in the middle of the

night, they snuck out. They burn my

boats and I wake up and I'm like, whoa,

where's my plan B? I wasn't ready to

burn those boats yet. Um, and plan A

just freaking thrives, right? And it's

not so much because of the fact that I

don't have a safety net anymore, but

it's because that event put a chip on my

shoulder that makes me want to to prove

those bad guys wrong. Right. To

oversimplify, those guys that burn my boat.

boat.

>> Toxic motivation.

>> Exactly. That's a that's a good way to

put it to show them I didn't need those

boats. I'm not going back, right? This

island is better than where I came from.

>> I remember reading about a study on Plan

B's where they got a group of students,

two groups, and then they told them to

do a puzzle to win a treat. And then in

one of the groups, they told them that

they could get this treat at a vending

machine down the hallway if they if they

wanted it after. And the group that

didn't understand they could get the

same reward from a plan B

>> worked significantly harder to complete

that puzzle.

>> So there's something in the human psyche

of know when you know that you could

>> get the reward in another way. When you

have a plan B, we work less hard at the

plan A.

>> Logically, maybe we should, you know,

practical and >> unresponsible

>> unresponsible

remove the plan B from our mind. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I just like I I can't think

of any stories from people in my sphere

of influence that have tested something,

quit the plan A, and then plan B just

failed and like they just lost

everything. Like surely that's happened,

right? That does happen when people like

prematurely quit, but in my experience,

it just it doesn't happen. Like it it

has the opposite effect. It becomes this

huge motivating factor. And when they

quit, I ask them like, "How do you feel?

Are you freaking out?" And it's always

always, "I'm so excited right now. Like,

I'm going to go all in on this. Like,

this has to work." And it does. It just does.

does.

>> A lot of people are looking for passive

income from side hustles. And I wondered

what your your op opinion was on passive

income because it's a word that comes up

so often in the comment section of this

channel, but when we're doing sort of

sentiment analysis and what people are

what they're interested in. Passive

income seems to be a bit of a buzz word.

>> Yeah, it's the silver bullet, right?

It's like it's the uh it's the financial

oic you could say.

>> What is passive income? How would how

would one define that? I would define it

as income that you receive um that you

don't have to continually put effort

towards like uh buying treasuries,

earning 4% on on your money and you

don't do anything and you just get paid.

And it's it's very hard to find

especially early on. Like we have to be

willing to create active income, sweaty

income, ugly income, like by whatever

means necessary. And the more we do

that, the longer we do that, the more um

realistic true passive income actually is.

is.

Sweaty, ugly income.

>> Yeah. Give me an example of some sweaty,

ugly income that anyone listening right

now could could create. What are your

favorite examples of non-obvious

businesses that people have started that

have resulted in passive, sweaty, ugly income?

income? >> Yeah,

>> Yeah,

I mean, most things that I've started

have been just that. I had a uh a

concierge car buying business. Um

>> a concierge car buying business.

>> Yeah. What's that?

>> So, picture a traditional car

dealership, a used car dealership. You

got to get your dealer's permit. That uh

enables you legally to go to the

auctions and buy cars at wholesale, put

them on your lot, and sell them. So, I

did all the regulatory stuff. I got my

my dealer's permit, but then I would go

to individuals and they would say, "I

want a 2024 Seoia. I want it to be blue,

under 30,000 mi." and I would just go to

the auction and buy it for them for like

$700 fee. So, they get wholesale, they

save money, I make money, I don't have

to bear the inventory risk and I can buy

exactly what they want. Um, that sounds

great, right? On paper. People do that

business successfully. I didn't invent

it. I copied it, right? I hated it. Uh,

I was breaking down on the side of the

road driving these things back from the

auction. I'm not a car guy. I don't care

about cars. I don't work on cars. It's

not my passion. That was ugly. It was

hot in Texas. I was standing out on the

black top. I was making money. It was

profitable. And I got to the point where

I just like quit it. I just shut it

down. Moved on to something else. Um

that was very active. It was not

scalable on the surface. It was ugly. I

hated it. And so I pivoted because I had

a plan B. I didn't have to do that,

right? Um that's one example. Uh if

someone likes cars, it's it's a actually

a great business. Like I know a

gentleman in Alabama that makes a lot of

money doing that, right? For me it was

it was not great.

>> So how important then is passion in this

equation? Like how important it is for

for you to love the thing to be

successful at it in your view? I think

you need to fall in love with business

with commerce and if you can love

entrepreneurship turning $1 into two and

that like if you could focus on that

being your passion then anything that

falls underneath that you should win at,

right? But I I like to say

follow the profit. pro fit T. Um, until

you can afford to follow your passion,

right? Because if we're trying to follow

our passion from day one, we're probably

not ever going to get there because the

statistical likelihood that what we love

and what makes us money overlaps in the

beginning is almost zero. So, ignore

passion for a time. Try to build your

passion around commerce. Um, and then

start anything. And then once you're

able to have more passive income, then

start things that you're passionate

about like in the in the actual industry

that you're passionate about. >> Persistence.

>> Persistence.

Persistence is obviously going to create

repetitions to like understand the

problem to learn more to, you know, so I

wonder as it relates to passion and

persistence, they seem

>> sort of inextricably linked. Something

I'm more passionate about, I'm more

likely to continue at even when the

rewards don't show up. Yeah, like my car

my car business, right? I had no passion

for cars and I had another business that

was doing great. So, so I abandoned

that. Um, but people think that like

people sometimes look at themselves as

lazy or they're not a hard worker. And

so they're just they're not confident

that they could do this. But there's

like everyone is a hard worker. Everyone

on this planet has the same DNA that

enables them to work hard. But the

problem is what they're working on

probably gives them no energy, right?

They're probably not passionate about

it. So, what am I passionate about?

Well, we got to we got to test

everything. We have to try new things.

We have to take that curious question

and turn it into a business. Maybe

that's fun. Maybe it's not. Right? We

need more surface area for finding what

our passions actually are. Cuz we might

think that like like I love woodworking,

right? I don't have to build a business

around that cuz I love business, right?

So, I can build a business around

anything. But if I got super hung up on

like I cannot make a profit from this

woodworking business um then I would

fail at entrepreneurship if I started

there, right? Whereas if I approached

this from um the angle of all right, I

like woodworking. What else do I like?

Maybe I like running, maybe I like

cooking, maybe I like short form videos,

and I just start trying all those new

things. Then eventually I'm going to

have enough surface area for testing

that I'm going to find things where um

you've heard of the eeky guy principle. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> Right. So what you love, what you're

good at, what the world needs, and what

you can charge for, right? The overlap

of that is the sweet spot. That's what's

scalable. That's what you can do until

you die. But if you get super hung up on

that on day one, like I'm just not

passionate about that, like you're never

going to find it. Like you're going to

be in that job forever. My career

follows the same same arc which is I

tried tons of things and then I built

this marketing business and then that

became more of a product business and

grew and I didn't love it. Like it

wasn't my passion to do um to help like

Coca-Cola sell more cans of Coke or like

you know Uber sell more Ubers

necessarily. That wasn't like my passion

in life. However, it taught me a bunch

of skills

>> which then in when I quit that business

and I spent some time in psychedelics,

DJing, building software, web 3, you

name it. Um I came out on the other side

and could ask myself that guy question

which is of all the things that I have

tried what is the thing that I would do

like really irrespective of money. Now I

had that luxury to do that and actually

in 2020 the answer was this. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> Like this was the answer. This answer

was I I literally moved to London from

New York and found a place without

viewing it properly that looked like

this because I thought this would be a

good podcast set and moved into that

place called Jack and then we started

about five five years ago um doing doing

this weekly

>> and it's become a business off the back

of it.

>> But I didn't have that luxury at the

start. If I tried that from day one, I

wouldn't have had a the skills to know

how to scale an audience. Mhm.

>> I wouldn't have had the flexibility to

buy all these cameras which cost like 50

grand or whatever at the start. Um so

and I do think some people sometimes get

that inverted.

>> Yeah. And you you're not distracted

anymore, right? You're not looking for

the next DJ thing or like you found it.

You're here right now. You're focused on

scaling. It's like people get so hung up

on focus or lack thereof and they just

beat themselves up over it. But in my

experience, like a lack of focus is a

signal that there's something else out

there, right? right? Then maybe we

shouldn't be focusing on that thing cuz

you've probably worked on things that

had perfect product market fit and were

just crushing and you weren't thinking

about starting a DJing business at that point,

point,

>> right? You were all in on this one thing.

thing.

>> But in the times when you were working

on something, you're like, "Maybe I'll

try this. Maybe I'll try this." And you

beat yourself up. You're like, "Oh, and

focus, focus, focus." Like, "Let's

actually pay attention to those signals.

Why am I distracted from this thing?" So

that's I don't know if that's just me

coping with my own ADHD or if that's

actually a true principle, but I I try

to lend some credence to those signals

of distraction that I get on a regular basis.

basis.

>> Yeah, I have a a Sunday shelf,

>> which is just a digital board on my

Monday board where when I have ideas

that like captivate me at 11:00 p.m. at

night one night, instead of trying to

act on them immediately, cuz I think I'm

in some respects like you, I put it on

the Sunday shelf.

>> Mhm. And um I wait and see. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I wait and see how much it pulls at me

to come off the shelf.

>> And then sometimes it comes off the

shelf. I get a little bit of the way

down. I discover that actually there's

something I didn't realize. And then I

quit. But then there's this, you know,

when you think about the like the

excitement arc of a new idea. You have

the like initial surge of excitement

like this is the best thing ever. I'm

going to become a billionaire. Why has

no one ever thought of this before? And

then you kind of get into it and you get

into that sort of valley of oh this

is a terrible idea. I'm an idiot. Yep.

>> If I can come out of that valley, if if

something pulls me up out of that

valley, then I think it's worth pursuing.

pursuing.

>> Yeah, that's a good way of looking at

it. The the valley of despair or

something that's what they call it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you follow a similar sort of path

with idea your ideas? It's funny cuz I

my kind of framework is

if I have an idea, am I thinking about

it still two weeks later? For whatever

reason, that's just my timeline. Two

weeks. I had an idea yesterday and I was

at the airport. I was excited about it

and I was doing research. I like forgot

about it, right? Who cares, you know?

But I have ideas where I just cannot get

it out of my head and I'll see something

out there in the world that adds to the

idea and I tell my friend about it and I

I send these manic voicemails or these

manic voice notes to my friends about it

and I'm still thinking about it 2 weeks

later. That's my signal that there's

actually something here. Um,

>> you used the word validating earlier on

when you're talking about these ideas

and I I think this is something that

could really really help a lot of people

who have a lot of ideas is this idea of

trying to validate your ideas as fast as possible.

possible. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm.

>> How might one validate an idea and can

you give me an example of an idea that

you have validated? What does validation mean?

mean?

>> Mhm. Yeah. So, I like to see people get

joy from my product or service, right?

Not just like, well, it's good. Like

let's say I'm selling a food product. It

tastes good. It's good. Okay, people

might buy this, but I'm not going to

have product market fit. I'm going to be

pushing a boulder up the hill, right?

But if people are like, "Oh my gosh,

this is the best thing I've ever had.

Where did you make this? How did you

make this?" It lights up in their face.

That's an example of a validation in my

case, right? Same industry, food

product, completely different reactions,

right? So, one specific example is um my

wife has a cookie bar business, right?

Square cookies, and they're amazing. And

we're not trying to scale it. We don't

want to scale it. It's a way to teach

our kids entrepreneurship, and we love

it. But the best way to validate this

was going to our local farmers market

and just posting up and just giving

people samples and just watching them,

right? What do they say versus how do

they react? And is it the same?

>> What do you mean by that?

>> Well, sometimes we try to use the

internet in places where it's it's not

needful, right? She sold these online,

right? She shipped them to friends and

family across the country. Like, they're

great. We love them. Okay. I didn't see

you eat it. I don't know how you

actually love it. Are you saying that

because you're my mom, right? Or you're

my friend. But when you solicit feedback

on your product or service in person,

even if it's like an internet tool or an

app, in person makes all the difference.

You want to take note of what they say

and take note of their body language and

how they react when they experience your

product or service, right? And if all

three of those things overlap, then

either they're a psychopath and they're

just lying for no good reason or you

have something really special on your

hands. Uh, and so that's what we did

with her cookie bar business. And um,

and they loved it. And you can do that

with any business. It doesn't have to be food.

food.

>> And what does validation mean? is it's

checking if the market gives a

about the thing you're making as fast as

you can. Yeah. Yeah. Um I like to kind

of picture a you know a boulder up a

hill, right? And most people in their

businesses, even businesses that are

working, there are two steps forward,

one step back. Two steps forward, one

step back. And that's okay. Like that's

not a bad thing. But in my experience,

5% of the time I'll have a business

where the boulder is chasing me. Like

I'm trying to not die because this

boulder's chasing me down a hill. And

that boulder in this case represents

customers demand, right? Like I can't

sleep because I'm fulfilling orders. I'm

answering emails like I'm not getting

distracted by the next shiny object.

That is validation. That's product

market fit in my experience. You don't

have to have that to launch. I don't

want people to misunderstand. Um but if

you have that, like you have something

very special and you need to go all in

on that thing. There was a book

published uh several years ago called

the lean startup which talks about this

idea of just like testing an MVP as

quick quick quickly as you possibly can.

>> Can you explain that to the audience who

probably have ideas but in their head

are thinking I've got to quit my job.

I'm going to have to raise money. I'm

going to have to spend two to three

years building something to figure out

if this is a good idea or not. What is

the alternative approach that you adopt

when you're trying to stress test an

idea quickly?

>> Yeah. So, if I had to pick one tool, I

mean, it's one that one in four humans

use every day, and it's Facebook, right?

You've got Facebook groups, you got

WhatsApp, um, Instagram, Facebook

Marketplace, Facebook pages, uh,

Facebook ads, right? Let's just say

there's six different meta products,

Facebook products. That's everything you

need right there, right? Why why don't

you give me an example of just a random

business and I'll I'll tell you or the

the audience how they could validate

that with a Facebook product.

>> Okay. Um

I'm thinking of starting a

creatine brand for women that has makes

creatine taste good. Okay. All right.

Are we talking powder gummy? What form factor?

factor?

>> I don't know.

>> Okay. Well, let's let's try both. Okay.

So, I'm going to do something that seems

very non-obvious and probably won't

work, but it's the lowest amount of

friction. I'm going to take a

description for that and I'm going to

use Nano Banana, Chad GBT, any of the AI

image generators to come up with what

the product could look like, right? In

both a gummy form and a powder form.

Okay. Then I'm going to go to Facebook

Marketplace. You You're just going to

post a photo.

>> Yeah. I'm just going to say like women's

creatine brand actually tastes good.

tastes good, right? Like, did you know

that creatine and improves cognitive

function or whatever? Just your standard

pitch. I could even use AI to generate

it. It doesn't really matter at this

point and I'm gonna post it to Facebook

marketplace simply because that's the

lowest amount of friction to get some

level of validation or not, right?

Because in my experience, focus is

overrated and momentum is underrated,

right? And so you could have told me any

idea and my first step that I tell you

to do is going to be something very very

low friction because I want you to get

something back from the world, right?

Cuz the most likely way to sell that

product is with meta ads, right? But

there's a lot of friction there. Like

it's it's hard to use. So you're going

to be like, "Okay, you're going to go

choose met ads and you're going to burn

out and you're going to have be on to

something else by tomorrow." But that

might be an amazing idea, right? So, I'm

going to tell you to go to Facebook

Marketplace, even though people don't

sell creatine on Facebook Marketplace.

And then we're going to see, you know,

Facebook gives us like three stats when

you post something to Facebook

Marketplace clicks and then how many

people that reach out and then how many

views. Okay, so I'm going to post one

Facebook Marketplace ad for the gummies.

Different picture. It'll look like

gummies. Um, basically same headline,

same benefit, same description. post to

Facebook in the same local market with

the same radius. Don't want to change

any variables. And then I'm going to

open a Google sheet and I'm going to say

how many views, how many clicks, how

many messages for that ad. Then I'm

going to do the same thing. Take the

same features, the same benefits,

different picture cuz this one's powder.

Post it in the same market with the same

radius to Facebook Marketplace and have

a new column um views, reachouts, and um

clicks, right? And then I'm going to

watch and I'm going to see what's

getting more clicks and I'm going to

know within two hours where there's more

demand. Now, does that little sample

size indicate like what form factor I

should go all in on? Not necessarily,

but it's something. It's a relevant data

point, right? There's not very likely to

be a large amount of people searching

for creatine gummies on Facebook

Marketplace, but it doesn't matter

because there's two billion people using

it, right? So, we're just trying to

capture some of that traffic. So, I'm

going to do that with two ads. And then

after a day or two, I'm going to boost

those two ads, put $10 behind each of

them to see how my results differ. Does

it make any difference? Do I get a lot

more clicks, a lot more views, or is it

just wasted? And then I'm going to um

I'm going to probably post like 10 more

ads of like different photos, different

headings, different descriptions,

different price points, and then put all

those in a Google sheet and track it.

All right. Now, I have a lot of data.

Now, concurrently, so while I'm doing

all these things, I'm going to go to

Facebook groups and I'm going to join

Facebook groups like moms who work out,

moms who love creatine, moms who love

rucking, ultrarunner moms, like healthy

moms, whatever. I'm going to join all

these groups and just start doing

searches for creatine, gummies, powders,

price points, vendors, websites, and

just start like pulling pieces of data

out of out of the atmosphere, right? and

I'm gonna put that in my spreadsheet and

I want to wait till the Facebook

marketplace tests are done. I want to do

that at the same time. Then I'm going to

start learning Facebook ads because

everything I've told you to do so far

takes like 2 hours. Let's say we have an

afternoon to dedicate to this, right?

Then I'm going to learn Facebook ads and

I'm going to watch a YouTube video

about, you know, how to get Facebook ads

up in 10 minutes. How important is it to

understand Facebook ads and how long

would it take me to get a sufficient

understanding of Facebook ads? you could

be proficient in a couple days if if you

had like one thing to sell and you just

wanted to go all in on that thing. Um,

and you actually learned by launching

ads and not just learning, not just

endlessly watching YouTube videos, you

could be fairly proficient uh within a

couple days easily. Do you think that's

the skill everybody should have?

>> Absolutely. I mean, Facebook ads are

like the infinite money glitch. It's

just like a a magic money machine. It's

the reason they're a trillion dollar

company. Um, it's like a cheat code.

Yeah. It's a We should know Facebook ads

like we know how to write emails. Like

we should know Facebook ads like we know

how to build websites or to do anything.

It should be foundational. H

I wonder how many people actually have

that skill. Very few. That's why there

are so many ad agencies charging a lot

of money.

>> And then so you've got the data back

into your spreadsheet on this creatine

situation. How do you then make a

decision whether this is something worth pursuing?

pursuing?

>> Yeah. Then I would go find like a a

c-acker that could

>> it's a company that will take my idea

and put it into a physical form, right?

Um I'd find like a supplement company

that could actually make this and I

would tell it roughly like what I'm

thinking and then ask for samples and

then I would use those samples to go get

feedback from people in person, right?

But I wouldn't get those samples until I

got feedback from all these Facebook

tests telling me what form factor, what

price point, what color, what flavor,

um, etc. And then I would go to a

farmers market and actually have people

try it. I've had so many founders speak

to me and say, "Why didn't this

particular ad that I ran on this

platform work for me?" Maybe the copy

wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong,

but usually the problem is they're not

having the right conversation because

that ad never reached the right person.

And if you're in B2B marketing, that is

much of the game. And this is where

LinkedIn ads solves that problem for

you. Their targeting is ridiculously

specific. You can target by job title,

seniority, company size, industry, and

even someone's skill set. And their

network includes over a billion

professionals, about 130 million of them

are decision makers. So when you use

LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand

in front of the right people. And

LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B

return on ad spend across all ad

networks in my experience. If you want

to give them a try, head over to linkedin.com/diary.

linkedin.com/diary.

And when you spend $250 on your first

LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an

extra $250 credit from me for the next

one. That's linkedin.com/diary.

Terms and conditions apply.

>> I've heard you say that there's various

types of entrepreneurs. There's the sort

of zero to one entrepreneur who's good

at starting things. There's the maintainer. And then there's the

maintainer. And then there's the finisher.

finisher. >> Which one are you?

>> Which one are you? >> I'm a starter. Yeah. Through and

>> I'm a starter. Yeah. Through and through. I

through. I if I stay in a business too long, it all

if I stay in a business too long, it all falls apart, right? Just objectively.

falls apart, right? Just objectively. So, I need to hand off the reigns at a

So, I need to hand off the reigns at a very specific point or I need to have a

very specific point or I need to have a partner from the outset that knows me,

partner from the outset that knows me, my strengths and my weaknesses um that

my strengths and my weaknesses um that just takes over at a certain point. So,

just takes over at a certain point. So, I like to say there are starters,

I like to say there are starters, maintainers, and finishers. A starter

maintainers, and finishers. A starter could be called like a visionary and not

could be called like a visionary and not as like a backhanded compliment way, but

as like a backhanded compliment way, but someone an idea guy, right? Not just a

someone an idea guy, right? Not just a business idea guy, but like a marketing

business idea guy, but like a marketing idea guy. Uh, let's change the subject

idea guy. Uh, let's change the subject line to this idea guy. Like a an idea

line to this idea guy. Like a an idea machine, right? That's a visionary. And

machine, right? That's a visionary. And then you have the maintainer, which

then you have the maintainer, which would be an operator. That's a guy that

would be an operator. That's a guy that just wakes up every day and loves

just wakes up every day and loves tweaking little things, making small

tweaking little things, making small improvements. uh process oriented,

improvements. uh process oriented, someone that loves growing something and

someone that loves growing something and just fixing little problems all day,

just fixing little problems all day, right? And then you have a finisher,

right? And then you have a finisher, which is like a deal guy, right? That's

which is like a deal guy, right? That's the guy that's a super connector. Uh he

the guy that's a super connector. Uh he likes to, oh, you need to talk to Barry.

likes to, oh, you need to talk to Barry. And then he calls him, he connects them,

And then he calls him, he connects them, and like he just gets a lot of energy

and like he just gets a lot of energy from connecting deals, coming up with

from connecting deals, coming up with creative deals for an exit, for a sale,

creative deals for an exit, for a sale, putting people together, hiring the

putting people together, hiring the right people, um seeing something to its

right people, um seeing something to its completion. Um, but I'm definitely in

completion. Um, but I'm definitely in the first camp.

the first camp. >> Is it possible to be all three?

>> Is it possible to be all three? >> Yeah. When you're all three, you're Mark

>> Yeah. When you're all three, you're Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, truly, like you

Zuckerberg. I mean, truly, like you start something from scratch and you see

start something from scratch and you see it to a trillion dollars. Um, there's

it to a trillion dollars. Um, there's been like I think there have been three

been like I think there have been three people on the planet that have brought

people on the planet that have brought something from zero to a trillion.

something from zero to a trillion. Jensen Wang, Nvidia, um, Elon Musk, and

Jensen Wang, Nvidia, um, Elon Musk, and Mark Zuckerberg. I think like even Bill

Mark Zuckerberg. I think like even Bill Gates, even Steve Jobs, I might be

Gates, even Steve Jobs, I might be wrong. Yeah. But even Steve Jobs got out

wrong. Yeah. But even Steve Jobs got out long before they hit a trillion market

long before they hit a trillion market cap.

cap. >> But a billion, a lot of people get zero

>> But a billion, a lot of people get zero to a billion.

to a billion. >> That's not nothing. Also very

>> That's not nothing. Also very impressive. But when you get all three,

impressive. But when you get all three, that's what you get.

that's what you get. >> One of the things that I find really

>> One of the things that I find really interesting about your story is you

interesting about your story is you you've started what is it 75 80

you've started what is it 75 80 businesses.

businesses. >> Mhm. When I speak to people like Kevin

>> Mhm. When I speak to people like Kevin Olirri who have worked with some of the

Olirri who have worked with some of the greatest entrepreneurs to ever live like

greatest entrepreneurs to ever live like Steve Jobs and he's very familiar with

Steve Jobs and he's very familiar with Elon Musk, they talk to me about focus.

Elon Musk, they talk to me about focus. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> And he says to me that the great thing

>> And he says to me that the great thing about Steve Jobs is he was 80% signal

about Steve Jobs is he was 80% signal and 20% noise. I.e. 80% of his time he

and 20% noise. I.e. 80% of his time he was focused on the most important thing

was focused on the most important thing and he was brutal about not entertaining

and he was brutal about not entertaining anything else. M

anything else. M >> Johnny Ives has famously said that the

>> Johnny Ives has famously said that the one thing Steve Jobs was most known for

one thing Steve Jobs was most known for is his remarkable ability to focus. He

is his remarkable ability to focus. He would literally ask you what have you

would literally ask you what have you said no to in order to focus on the most

said no to in order to focus on the most important thing.

important thing. >> Uh I think about Mark Zuckerberg and his

>> Uh I think about Mark Zuckerberg and his unbelievable ability to focus. I

unbelievable ability to focus. I remember uh several people at Meta but

remember uh several people at Meta but also I think it's a public story telling

also I think it's a public story telling me that when he realized he was late to

me that when he realized he was late to mobile he refused to take any meetings

mobile he refused to take any meetings about anything other than mobile like

about anything other than mobile like extreme levels of focus.

extreme levels of focus. >> And then Kevin Olirri from Shark Tank

>> And then Kevin Olirri from Shark Tank said the same to me about Elon Musk. He

said the same to me about Elon Musk. He says Elon Musk is the only person that I

says Elon Musk is the only person that I think operates close to 100% signal

think operates close to 100% signal which is he and I interviewed Walter

which is he and I interviewed Walter Isaac and his biographer and he said

Isaac and his biographer and he said Elon will sit in a meeting and if people

Elon will sit in a meeting and if people aren't talking about something that is

aren't talking about something that is the most important thing he'll

the most important thing he'll completely zone out and then the minute

completely zone out and then the minute he hears something that he considers to

he hears something that he considers to be the most important thing it's like he

be the most important thing it's like he snaps into reality and he takes control

snaps into reality and he takes control and he's deep into the detail and I it

and he's deep into the detail and I it sits in contradiction to a lot of the

sits in contradiction to a lot of the the narrative of like lots of side

the narrative of like lots of side hustles, lots of businesses, do as many

hustles, lots of businesses, do as many things as you can. How do you but you've

things as you can. How do you but you've both kind of you know you've managed to

both kind of you know you've managed to create a life for yourself where you're

create a life for yourself where you're you're a millionaire and you're free in

you're a millionaire and you're free in that regard

that regard >> but when I look at the biggest companies

>> but when I look at the biggest companies in the world there's this like there

in the world there's this like there appears to be obsessive focus.

appears to be obsessive focus. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I love that question. I I think that all

>> I love that question. I I think that all else equal the guy who focuses more is

else equal the guy who focuses more is more likely to be a billionaire. But

more likely to be a billionaire. But back to momentum, right? The person that

back to momentum, right? The person that keeps and has and mo maintains momentum

keeps and has and mo maintains momentum and has gets energy from what they do,

and has gets energy from what they do, they're more likely to be a millionaire

they're more likely to be a millionaire by the average than the average person,

by the average than the average person, right? I I genuinely have no desire to

right? I I genuinely have no desire to be a billionaire. Genuinely, if I get

be a billionaire. Genuinely, if I get there, cool. But I don't want to leave

there, cool. But I don't want to leave my kids tens of millions of dollars

my kids tens of millions of dollars anyway. I know where I get most of my

anyway. I know where I get most of my energy from. I have a lot of surface

energy from. I have a lot of surface area for this. I've tried the focus.

area for this. I've tried the focus. I've tried having a board. I don't want

I've tried having a board. I don't want any of that. Genuinely, I don't. Right.

any of that. Genuinely, I don't. Right. So, if my life with hyperfocused Chris

So, if my life with hyperfocused Chris looks like billion-dollar exits, uh,

looks like billion-dollar exits, uh, reporting to a board, uh, being chairman

reporting to a board, uh, being chairman of the board, being CEO, um, sitting in

of the board, being CEO, um, sitting in meetings all day, that's miserable

meetings all day, that's miserable Chris, right? And if I'm not going to,

Chris, right? And if I'm not going to, if I don't want to leave a ton of money

if I don't want to leave a ton of money to my kids anyway, then why am I making

to my kids anyway, then why am I making Chris miserable so my fourth great

Chris miserable so my fourth great grandkids can be rich instead of just my

grandkids can be rich instead of just my second great grandkids? Like that's

second great grandkids? Like that's that's genuinely how I look at it. I'm

that's genuinely how I look at it. I'm one of my superpowers is my my long-term

one of my superpowers is my my long-term perspective, right? I think of things on

perspective, right? I think of things on an eternal scale. And if I have to have

an eternal scale. And if I have to have a miserable life so my kids in year 2300

a miserable life so my kids in year 2300 can still be wealthy, forget that. Like

can still be wealthy, forget that. Like I don't I don't I don't want them to

I don't I don't I don't want them to have all that money anyway, you know? So

have all that money anyway, you know? So I want to live an awesome life where I'm

I want to live an awesome life where I'm a good and present father. And to me

a good and present father. And to me that looks like focusing less, not more.

that looks like focusing less, not more. What if you focused for the next 10

What if you focused for the next 10 years? You made it to a billion dollars

years? You made it to a billion dollars on one thing

on one thing >> and then because you've done that you

>> and then because you've done that you can take even more sort of experimental

can take even more sort of experimental bets

bets >> with higher risk and more enjoyment and

>> with higher risk and more enjoyment and more sort of pleasure ccentric bets over

more sort of pleasure ccentric bets over the next 40 50 60 years of the rest of

the next 40 50 60 years of the rest of your life.

your life. >> Yeah, I just don't think that that juice

>> Yeah, I just don't think that that juice would be worth the squeeze. I think that

would be worth the squeeze. I think that those bigger bets that I take will just

those bigger bets that I take will just amount to more meetings and more travel

amount to more meetings and more travel and more time away from my kids. And I

and more time away from my kids. And I don't like it might sound controversial

don't like it might sound controversial like I'm I'm not trying to change the

like I'm I'm not trying to change the world. Like I want to help people start

world. Like I want to help people start businesses and I can do that with my

businesses and I can do that with my iPhone. Uh and that will change the

iPhone. Uh and that will change the world, right? But I'm not trying to

world, right? But I'm not trying to solve world hunger. I think that's

solve world hunger. I think that's someone else's problem to solve. And so

someone else's problem to solve. And so I I just want to be a good dad and work

I I just want to be a good dad and work on really cool things. And it's been a

on really cool things. And it's been a it's been a grind to get here, right?

it's been a grind to get here, right? Like I've had more years with zero

Like I've had more years with zero income than I've had up years, right?

income than I've had up years, right? But my up years have more than

But my up years have more than compensated for my down years. So what

compensated for my down years. So what you're looking at today is the end

you're looking at today is the end result of 17 years of a lot of testing.

result of 17 years of a lot of testing. Like a very patient wife that was

Like a very patient wife that was unquestioning and unwavering and

unquestioning and unwavering and extremely loyal, which I could not have

extremely loyal, which I could not have done it without. Um, and so there were a

done it without. Um, and so there were a lot of periods in my life where I beat

lot of periods in my life where I beat myself up over that lack of focus. I

myself up over that lack of focus. I went and got my MBA because of my lack

went and got my MBA because of my lack of focus. I finished my undergrad

of focus. I finished my undergrad because of my lack of focus. Like how

because of my lack of focus. Like how getting a full-time job has never really

getting a full-time job has never really been off the table until the last five

been off the table until the last five or so years. So I've I've never been

or so years. So I've I've never been unwilling to get a job or to focus. U

unwilling to get a job or to focus. U and I probably did it the hard way,

and I probably did it the hard way, honestly. Um, but I'm to the point now

honestly. Um, but I'm to the point now where I don't feel the need to focus all

where I don't feel the need to focus all on one thing. Did you ever feel guilty

on one thing. Did you ever feel guilty because of the situation you put your

because of the situation you put your family or your partner in?

family or your partner in? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. More than once. Yeah. More than many

More than once. Yeah. More than many times.

times. Give me an example. I spent

Give me an example. I spent I spent 18 months working on a project

I spent 18 months working on a project um

um that had no cash flow along the way with

that had no cash flow along the way with the hope of a big payout. Um, and we

the hope of a big payout. Um, and we were making no income, right? And I was

were making no income, right? And I was focused on this one thing. And that is

focused on this one thing. And that is kind of the downside of focus is if you

kind of the downside of focus is if you focus on the wrong thing, it can really

focus on the wrong thing, it can really come back to bite you, right? But to me,

come back to bite you, right? But to me, this was objectively the right thing. It

this was objectively the right thing. It was showing all the signals it was

was showing all the signals it was growing. Um, we we had like a few rental

growing. Um, we we had like a few rental homes, we had some assets, and I was

homes, we had some assets, and I was selling those things so my family could

selling those things so my family could maintain their quality of life, right?

maintain their quality of life, right? So I felt guilty but I was also

So I felt guilty but I was also insulating them from feeling the the

insulating them from feeling the the pinch that I was feeling in the office,

pinch that I was feeling in the office, right? And then at the end of that

right? And then at the end of that experiment it all went to zero. I was

experiment it all went to zero. I was out money, I was out time, I was out

out money, I was out time, I was out everything. And I felt I felt very

everything. And I felt I felt very guilty. That was one one example. Um

guilty. That was one one example. Um but thankfully like we we didn't have to

but thankfully like we we didn't have to sell our house. We didn't have to do

sell our house. We didn't have to do anything drastic. And what that looked

anything drastic. And what that looked like at home was dad was quiet more

like at home was dad was quiet more often than not. Dad was grumpy more

often than not. Dad was grumpy more often than not, but dad wasn't really

often than not, but dad wasn't really talking freely and openly about the

talking freely and openly about the things he was going through because he

things he was going through because he was trying to, you know, put on a brave

was trying to, you know, put on a brave face and insulate um the family from

face and insulate um the family from that. Even when my wife was begging to

that. Even when my wife was begging to know more to get more out of me, I just

know more to get more out of me, I just if I talk about stressors, then it

if I talk about stressors, then it becomes more stressful to me often

becomes more stressful to me often times. So, I just keep it in.

times. So, I just keep it in. >> I find the same. I think my partner

>> I find the same. I think my partner understands this of me and I tried to

understands this of me and I tried to explain to her that I don't like talking

explain to her that I don't like talking about the stress because

about the stress because >> in this environment you're it's actually

>> in this environment you're it's actually d-stressing me from not having to

d-stressing me from not having to explain and conversate about it.

explain and conversate about it. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> So, which is a bit of a paradox because

>> So, which is a bit of a paradox because then they don't really understand.

then they don't really understand. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And if they don't understand, they might

>> And if they don't understand, they might misunderstand. Misunderstandments might

misunderstand. Misunderstandments might lead to arguments and the arguments

lead to arguments and the arguments create stress and then you're going to

create stress and then you're going to have to tell them in some sort of like

have to tell them in some sort of like argument what's going on.

argument what's going on. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've lived that for sure. I

>> Yeah. Yeah. I've lived that for sure. I don't know how to navigate that, but but

don't know how to navigate that, but but it's definitely true that me going

it's definitely true that me going through something in work and then

through something in work and then having to come home and like go through

having to come home and like go through it for another hour to someone else and

it for another hour to someone else and stress them out potentially.

stress them out potentially. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Doesn't feel like the right approach.

>> Doesn't feel like the right approach. >> No, but I don't know what the right

>> No, but I don't know what the right approach is because they they have a

approach is because they they have a right to know about it as well, right?

right to know about it as well, right? >> I think we just need an outlet whether

>> I think we just need an outlet whether it's a friend that kind of understands

it's a friend that kind of understands or someone else that,

or someone else that, >> you know, is in our space that we can

>> you know, is in our space that we can just talk to about the situation. I

just talk to about the situation. I think having no outlet is also bad.

think having no outlet is also bad. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm guilty of that. I I

>> Yeah. And I'm I'm guilty of that. I I find a lot of joy in my work and so I I

find a lot of joy in my work and so I I don't look at it as work often, but it's

don't look at it as work often, but it's still work, right? Like it's still

still work, right? Like it's still taxing. Um so I need to be better about

taxing. Um so I need to be better about having an outlet.

having an outlet. >> Have you developed a new relationship

>> Have you developed a new relationship with rejection and failure because, you

with rejection and failure because, you know, starting 80 odd businesses, you

know, starting 80 odd businesses, you must have dealt with a lot of failure.

must have dealt with a lot of failure. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> And and how does that feed into

>> And and how does that feed into everything we're talking about today?

everything we're talking about today? Oh man, I would I don't know where I'd

Oh man, I would I don't know where I'd be without rejection and failure. Um I'm

be without rejection and failure. Um I'm not good at sales. So if anyone's

not good at sales. So if anyone's watching this and like I can't start a

watching this and like I can't start a business, business is all sales. Like

business, business is all sales. Like you don't have to be good at sales. I'm

you don't have to be good at sales. I'm not good at sales. I I can't think of a

not good at sales. I I can't think of a business that where I had to rely on

business that where I had to rely on like early customers coming from friends

like early customers coming from friends and family cuz I cared a lot about what

and family cuz I cared a lot about what people thought. I didn't want to post my

people thought. I didn't want to post my side hustle number 37 to Facebook cuz I

side hustle number 37 to Facebook cuz I just thought my friends would roll their

just thought my friends would roll their eyes. So I created this stupid

eyes. So I created this stupid constraint for me where like I had to

constraint for me where like I had to launch things without the help of my

launch things without the help of my ever willing friends and family because

ever willing friends and family because I was too prideful, right? So I I advise

I was too prideful, right? So I I advise against that first of all. Second of

against that first of all. Second of all, um I served a mission for my

all, um I served a mission for my church. I went to Eastern Europe for two

church. I went to Eastern Europe for two years and I knocked doors in Hungarian

years and I knocked doors in Hungarian for two years straight. I approached

for two years straight. I approached people on the street in freezing weather

people on the street in freezing weather wearing a big Russian hat. Like I got

wearing a big Russian hat. Like I got rejected tens of thousands of times over

rejected tens of thousands of times over the course of two years being an

the course of two years being an introvert, staying an introvert, still

introvert, staying an introvert, still an introvert, still bad at sales, still

an introvert, still bad at sales, still hating sales today at age 38, right? But

hating sales today at age 38, right? But that like changed me as a man, as a

that like changed me as a man, as a person, right? That rewired my brain to

person, right? That rewired my brain to just realize that every no is closer to

just realize that every no is closer to a yes. If my conversion rate is 0.1%, I

a yes. If my conversion rate is 0.1%, I got to talk to a thousand people and I

got to talk to a thousand people and I will surely get a conversion. If I talk

will surely get a conversion. If I talk to a thousand and I don't get a

to a thousand and I don't get a conversion, then I'm going to get two

conversion, then I'm going to get two conversions by the time I get to 2,000,

conversions by the time I get to 2,000, statistically speaking. So, I just need

statistically speaking. So, I just need to keep getting rejected. Um, and that

to keep getting rejected. Um, and that changed everything for me. I think it's

changed everything for me. I think it's super underrated to give kids a job in

super underrated to give kids a job in like cold sales.

like cold sales. >> Mhm. It's what I did when I was 16 till

>> Mhm. It's what I did when I was 16 till 19. Sounds like it's what you did

19. Sounds like it's what you did >> as a young man. Are your kids going to

>> as a young man. Are your kids going to do that? Yeah, hopefully. And two of my

do that? Yeah, hopefully. And two of my kids are introverts, two are

kids are introverts, two are extroverted, but uh they will they are

extroverted, but uh they will they are selling like they already have

selling like they already have businesses, little side hustles here and

businesses, little side hustles here and there. Um but I am encouraging them to

there. Um but I am encouraging them to go on missions and to do selling because

go on missions and to do selling because it's it's the fastest way to learn. Like

it's it's the fastest way to learn. Like it's the fastest way to test. If I talk

it's the fastest way to test. If I talk to a thousand people, then I can have a

to a thousand people, then I can have a thousand different approaches and if my

thousand different approaches and if my conversion rate is 0.1%. Um, I'm going

conversion rate is 0.1%. Um, I'm going to get that to 5% over time because I'm

to get that to 5% over time because I'm able to test and iterate and and pivot

able to test and iterate and and pivot based on all that feedback I get.

based on all that feedback I get. >> What have you learned about team

>> What have you learned about team building and business partners through

building and business partners through this process? What advice would you give

this process? What advice would you give to someone who's sat there alone

to someone who's sat there alone listening to this right now? Do they

listening to this right now? Do they need a business partner? If they do,

need a business partner? If they do, who, how, what? Oh man. Um,

who, how, what? Oh man. Um, usually people don't need a business

usually people don't need a business partner. Um, if you look at the stats on

partner. Um, if you look at the stats on like business failure rates with

like business failure rates with companies that have co-founders, it's

companies that have co-founders, it's significantly higher than companies that

significantly higher than companies that have solo founders. We see the

have solo founders. We see the survivorship bias examples, right? The

survivorship bias examples, right? The the Apples and the a lot of companies we

the Apples and the a lot of companies we can look at that had two co-founders

can look at that had two co-founders that that won, but nobody talks about or

that that won, but nobody talks about or writes about the 90 60 80% of companies

writes about the 90 60 80% of companies that fail with co-founders. Think about

that fail with co-founders. Think about it this way. When we get married, we'll

it this way. When we get married, we'll spend years talking about our potential

spend years talking about our potential plans, like big goals, like where do we

plans, like big goals, like where do we want to live? How many kids do we have?

want to live? How many kids do we have? My wife and I wanted seven kids when we

My wife and I wanted seven kids when we got married. We settled on four, right?

got married. We settled on four, right? It changed over time. It took years to

It changed over time. It took years to change. We realized kids are actually

change. We realized kids are actually freaking hard, right? And we So then

freaking hard, right? And we So then we're like, where do we live? What kind

we're like, where do we live? What kind of a house do we want? We spend all this

of a house do we want? We spend all this time, maybe while we're engaged, maybe

time, maybe while we're engaged, maybe while we're dating, maybe after we're

while we're dating, maybe after we're married. But those are big decisions,

married. But those are big decisions, right? But when we choose a business

right? But when we choose a business partner, we go get avocado toast

partner, we go get avocado toast together and we're like, "50-50, cool,

together and we're like, "50-50, cool, sounds good. Let's do this." You know,

sounds good. Let's do this." You know, I'll get the doc signed. It's like, who

I'll get the doc signed. It's like, who is that guy? You might have even known

is that guy? You might have even known him your whole life, but who is he as a

him your whole life, but who is he as a business partner or as a business

business partner or as a business person? I just I feel like business

person? I just I feel like business partnerships are significantly harder

partnerships are significantly harder than marriages even. But we put 99% less

than marriages even. But we put 99% less thought into like the structure of

thought into like the structure of things. And that's a giant failure that

things. And that's a giant failure that I've made over and over again. What do

I've made over and over again. What do you wish someone had said to you in the

you wish someone had said to you in the situations where it didn't work out with

situations where it didn't work out with business partners or really like across

business partners or really like across the board? Because I I read that you'd

the board? Because I I read that you'd had what, seven business partners? It

had what, seven business partners? It says that I've had like 15.

says that I've had like 15. >> Okay. So, in those 15 occasions, what is

>> Okay. So, in those 15 occasions, what is the advice you wish someone had given

the advice you wish someone had given you before you engaged in those business

you before you engaged in those business relationships? Yeah. Well, what do they

relationships? Yeah. Well, what do they say about dating? It's like be a be a

say about dating? It's like be a be a good like the best way to find a good

good like the best way to find a good spouse is to be a good spouse. Best way

spouse is to be a good spouse. Best way to find a good girlfriend. You know what

to find a good girlfriend. You know what I'm saying? You've got to learn more

I'm saying? You've got to learn more about yourself before you partner with

about yourself before you partner with someone else. Most people have no idea

someone else. Most people have no idea like who they are as a business person

like who they are as a business person or as an entrepreneur when they partner.

or as an entrepreneur when they partner. They don't know what their strengths are

They don't know what their strengths are or their weaknesses are. They sure don't

or their weaknesses are. They sure don't know what the other guys strengths or

know what the other guys strengths or weaknesses are. So, I suggest people

weaknesses are. So, I suggest people solo found things to start to learn more

solo found things to start to learn more about themselves. Are they a visionary?

about themselves. Are they a visionary? Are they an integrator, starter,

Are they an integrator, starter, maintainer, finisher? Who are they? And

maintainer, finisher? Who are they? And then when they want to jump into another

then when they want to jump into another thing, because inevitably if we launch

thing, because inevitably if we launch one thing, we're going to launch more.

one thing, we're going to launch more. they know more about what to look for in

they know more about what to look for in a partner. Um, and they can optimize for

a partner. Um, and they can optimize for that. What about equity?

that. What about equity? Yeah. I mean, 50/50 is the old standby,

Yeah. I mean, 50/50 is the old standby, right? Um, could you imagine if you like

right? Um, could you imagine if you like you go on a first date and it's like,

you go on a first date and it's like, how many kids do you want? Four. Okay,

how many kids do you want? Four. Okay, we'll have four. We'll get married and

we'll have four. We'll get married and that's how many we will have. Uh, no

that's how many we will have. Uh, no matter what. That's a 50/50 partnership,

matter what. That's a 50/50 partnership, right? It's making an incredibly

right? It's making an incredibly important decision based on they both

important decision based on they both equal 100. Numbers sound clean to me,

equal 100. Numbers sound clean to me, but like what is the statistical chance?

but like what is the statistical chance? This is what needs to be true for a

This is what needs to be true for a 50/50 partnership to work. Okay, they

50/50 partnership to work. Okay, they both have to be allin. They both have to

both have to be allin. They both have to always be allin for the whole lifespan

always be allin for the whole lifespan of the business. Maybe years, maybe

of the business. Maybe years, maybe decades. They have to put in the same

decades. They have to put in the same amount of money, same amount of effort,

amount of money, same amount of effort, same amount of connections, value,

same amount of connections, value, history, background. Also, both of them

history, background. Also, both of them should be completely selfless, right?

should be completely selfless, right? And not care if the other one's not

And not care if the other one's not pulling his weight. I'm taking a

pulling his weight. I'm taking a month-long vacation. Cool. You'll make

month-long vacation. Cool. You'll make up for it later. They have to be like

up for it later. They have to be like that chill of a human being. And of

that chill of a human being. And of course, like they have to be the same as

course, like they have to be the same as the other person. If all those things

the other person. If all those things are true, 50/50 works great.

are true, 50/50 works great. >> And they need to develop going forward

>> And they need to develop going forward in the same way because for the next 10

in the same way because for the next 10 future,

future, >> they need to grow at the same rate.

>> they need to grow at the same rate. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which will never never ever be the

>> Yeah. Which will never never ever be the case. So, I like to say like you don't

case. So, I like to say like you don't want to uh DTR, define the relationship

want to uh DTR, define the relationship too early or too late. If you sit down

too early or too late. If you sit down at brunch and you're like, "Let's do

at brunch and you're like, "Let's do 50/50. Cool." Big mistake. If you you're

50/50. Cool." Big mistake. If you you're 2 years down the line and you've got all

2 years down the line and you've got all this revenue and customers and you're

this revenue and customers and you're like, "All right, we should probably

like, "All right, we should probably formalize this." Too late. Cuz like that

formalize this." Too late. Cuz like that only works if the business just stays at

only works if the business just stays at like a steady state forever, which it

like a steady state forever, which it won't. It's going to go up or it's going

won't. It's going to go up or it's going to go down, right? And like things get

to go down, right? And like things get really ugly when either one of those two

really ugly when either one of those two scenarios happen. So the sweet spot in

scenarios happen. So the sweet spot in my experience is listen, this is how

my experience is listen, this is how this conversation would would work.

this conversation would would work. We're going to partner together. Hey, um

We're going to partner together. Hey, um I think you're going to be great for

I think you're going to be great for this business because you have a sales

this business because you have a sales background. You're great at sales. You

background. You're great at sales. You have a lot of contacts in the industry.

have a lot of contacts in the industry. I don't have any of that. I don't even

I don't have any of that. I don't even like sales. I don't know anything about

like sales. I don't know anything about sales. But I'm an amazing engineer. Like

sales. But I'm an amazing engineer. Like I know I can build this thing. You've

I know I can build this thing. You've seen me build other websites, other apps

seen me build other websites, other apps in the past. I already have like a

in the past. I already have like a wireframe in mind. Like, we're going to

wireframe in mind. Like, we're going to be great for this, right? So, let's just

be great for this, right? So, let's just do this. I don't know how this is going

do this. I don't know how this is going to go. I don't know how much time you

to go. I don't know how much time you have. We both have full-time jobs. Um,

have. We both have full-time jobs. Um, why don't we just get to $10,000 in

why don't we just get to $10,000 in revenue? Um, let's get product market

revenue? Um, let's get product market fit. Let's get some good traction. Maybe

fit. Let's get some good traction. Maybe we'll get like you really have to set a

we'll get like you really have to set a a defined metric around it. Not like

a defined metric around it. Not like let's see how this goes in 30 days, but

let's see how this goes in 30 days, but something like a revenue number, number

something like a revenue number, number of customers, or something. at that

of customers, or something. at that point, let's sit down. Let's just like

point, let's sit down. Let's just like put it in the calendar today and let's

put it in the calendar today and let's have a conversation about what our

have a conversation about what our equity looks like. Uh because almost

equity looks like. Uh because almost every time they're going to be remote

every time they're going to be remote just based on the world we live in or

just based on the world we live in or one person will put in more money or one

one person will put in more money or one person has more experience. Um and all

person has more experience. Um and all those things are are relevant, but

those things are are relevant, but >> you're going to get resentment

>> you're going to get resentment >> 100%. And you're probably not going to

>> 100%. And you're probably not going to talk about that resentment and it's only

talk about that resentment and it's only going to get worse. um it'll only get

going to get worse. um it'll only get worse if you know things either go up or

worse if you know things either go up or down. So they they will always get

down. So they they will always get worse. Um but it's it's hard to define

worse. Um but it's it's hard to define because one person might have 30 years

because one person might have 30 years of industry experience and contacts and

of industry experience and contacts and expertise and he can make one phone call

expertise and he can make one phone call that changes everything and the other

that changes everything and the other person might be 18 years old and just a

person might be 18 years old and just a hustler and willing to put in 80 hours a

hustler and willing to put in 80 hours a week. So is the level of value the same

week. So is the level of value the same if the level of hours put into the

if the level of hours put into the business not the same?

business not the same? It's hard. Like it's it's really hard to

It's hard. Like it's it's really hard to say, "Hey, my one phone call made us 10

say, "Hey, my one phone call made us 10 millions of dollars, tens of millions of

millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars, but you've done all the work.

dollars, but you've done all the work. You're the operator, so we should be

You're the operator, so we should be 50/50." They're both going to take issue

50/50." They're both going to take issue with that. The only instance I was

with that. The only instance I was thinking about all the business

thinking about all the business partnerships that I'm aware of. So

partnerships that I'm aware of. So companies I've invested in. There's

companies I've invested in. There's about 60 or 70 companies I've invested

about 60 or 70 companies I've invested in and then businesses I've started

in and then businesses I've started myself. And the one time I've seen it

myself. And the one time I've seen it work to split equally, the two people

work to split equally, the two people had known each other for a long long

had known each other for a long long time and they were both late in their

time and they were both late in their career. M

career. M >> so they're like you know when we think

>> so they're like you know when we think about rate of development and potential

about rate of development and potential not only did they have a strong

not only did they have a strong relationship they'd known each other a

relationship they'd known each other a long time they'd worked together for

long time they'd worked together for more than 5 years together and they're

more than 5 years together and they're sort of later in a more mature phase of

sort of later in a more mature phase of their career

their career >> where you know like the kids situation's

>> where you know like the kids situation's figured itself out are they going to

figured itself out are they going to have kids or not and there hasn't been

have kids or not and there hasn't been some of the big life disruptors that

some of the big life disruptors that sometimes can come along and change

sometimes can come along and change things and then I can think of another

things and then I can think of another example where um two people knew each

example where um two people knew each other. They were very, very young.

other. They were very, very young. They'd worked together before. The

They'd worked together before. The contract went in 50/50, although it was

contract went in 50/50, although it was never really equal. And then their rate

never really equal. And then their rate of growth changed wildly where one

of growth changed wildly where one person

person >> really just like became a superstar. And

>> really just like became a superstar. And they look back at the contract and it

they look back at the contract and it was 50/50. And I remember being privy to

was 50/50. And I remember being privy to the conversation where that person

the conversation where that person turned around to their business partner

turned around to their business partner was like, "This is not fair."

was like, "This is not fair." >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> This company without me goes to zero.

>> This company without me goes to zero. Without you, it keeps growing.

Without you, it keeps growing. >> Yeah. And there was an adjustment made

>> Yeah. And there was an adjustment made to the equity at that point, which is

to the equity at that point, which is hard to do because of tax reasons and

hard to do because of tax reasons and stuff. But

stuff. But >> yeah, the one thing I will say about a

>> yeah, the one thing I will say about a 50/50 and going in with someone that

50/50 and going in with someone that you've known for a long time, or going

you've known for a long time, or going in with your best friend, that can be

in with your best friend, that can be really freaking fun. Like, it can just

really freaking fun. Like, it can just be the most enjoyable life ever. So,

be the most enjoyable life ever. So, it's just very high risk and very high

it's just very high risk and very high reward. And if you can make it work,

reward. And if you can make it work, like often times the biggest and the

like often times the biggest and the best and the most well-ran companies you

best and the most well-ran companies you see were 50/50 partners that knew each

see were 50/50 partners that knew each other for a long time for that reason.

other for a long time for that reason. Um, but the rate of failure is higher

Um, but the rate of failure is higher than average. So, in these uh three

than average. So, in these uh three suitcases in front of me, I have

suitcases in front of me, I have different amounts of money.

different amounts of money. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> And all I want you to do is to let me

>> And all I want you to do is to let me know if I was giving you this amount of

know if I was giving you this amount of money, what business you would start.

Okay, so the first one has

has $500 here.

$500 here. Awesome. So, most people would look at

Awesome. So, most people would look at this and think, "What am I going to do

this and think, "What am I going to do with $500?" That's a lot of money,

with $500?" That's a lot of money, right? In in the age of today with

right? In in the age of today with 30-day free trials and uh a lot of

30-day free trials and uh a lot of Silicon Valley funded companies willing

Silicon Valley funded companies willing to give you a lot of money to test your

to give you a lot of money to test your product, this goes a long way. So the

product, this goes a long way. So the first thing to come to mind that comes

first thing to come to mind that comes to mind is probably my favorite business

to mind is probably my favorite business idea of all right now and thankfully you

idea of all right now and thankfully you can start it with even less than this

can start it with even less than this and that would be a business that helps

and that would be a business that helps implement AI into small businesses small

implement AI into small businesses small to mediumsiz businesses. So some facts

to mediumsiz businesses. So some facts for you there's 400 million small

for you there's 400 million small businesses on the planet. They've

businesses on the planet. They've surveyed some of these business owners

surveyed some of these business owners um and 77% of them have admitted that

um and 77% of them have admitted that like AI would be transformational to

like AI would be transformational to their business. They need AI. It's not a

their business. They need AI. It's not a fad. It's not going away. 5% of them

fad. It's not going away. 5% of them have claimed they're using AI in a

have claimed they're using AI in a meaningful way, right? And define that

meaningful way, right? And define that as you will. So, basically, we have this

as you will. So, basically, we have this knowledge gap, right? We know it's like

knowledge gap, right? We know it's like a it's like a business cognitive

a it's like a business cognitive dissonance, if you will. We know we need

dissonance, if you will. We know we need to do something and we're not doing it.

to do something and we're not doing it. Doesn't matter how easy the tools are.

Doesn't matter how easy the tools are. Doesn't matter how much you can create a

Doesn't matter how much you can create a new website or an app with one prompt.

new website or an app with one prompt. Um, they need someone to do it, right? I

Um, they need someone to do it, right? I know how to vacuum my floor. I know how

know how to vacuum my floor. I know how to clean my house. I still would rather

to clean my house. I still would rather just pay someone to do it. Okay. And so

just pay someone to do it. Okay. And so with a fifth of the money, call it a

with a fifth of the money, call it a $100, I would start learning some vibe

$100, I would start learning some vibe coding tools. Um, Replet, Lindy, there's

coding tools. Um, Replet, Lindy, there's a ton of them out there.

a ton of them out there. >> What is vibe coding for anyone that

>> What is vibe coding for anyone that doesn't?

doesn't? >> Vibe coding is the non-technical person,

>> Vibe coding is the non-technical person, the non-coder such as myself using their

the non-coder such as myself using their natural language to just say, "Hey,

natural language to just say, "Hey, build me an app that manages customers

build me an app that manages customers for dog trainers." You'll have an app,

for dog trainers." You'll have an app, right? Is it fully functional? Is

right? Is it fully functional? Is workable yet? Not quite, but 10 to 20

workable yet? Not quite, but 10 to 20 more prompts and you're good to go.

more prompts and you're good to go. >> And for anyone that doesn't know, I I

>> And for anyone that doesn't know, I I would suggest I'm an investor in both

would suggest I'm an investor in both Lovable and Replet. So, disclaimer, but

Lovable and Replet. So, disclaimer, but I would recommend going on Replet or

I would recommend going on Replet or Lovable and um typing in any website ID

Lovable and um typing in any website ID you have just to have that sort of

you have just to have that sort of eureka moment of watching it be made in

eureka moment of watching it be made in front of you. I think that Eureka moment

front of you. I think that Eureka moment is the moment your mind expands to the

is the moment your mind expands to the possibilities that are currently right

possibilities that are currently right in front of all of us.

in front of all of us. >> Yes. You know, we think of building

>> Yes. You know, we think of building websites or apps as exclusive to those

websites or apps as exclusive to those that have spent 5 years learning to

that have spent 5 years learning to code. That has now changed.

code. That has now changed. >> Yeah, we can all do it. Yeah. And

>> Yeah, we can all do it. Yeah. And everyone should, like you said, one

everyone should, like you said, one prompt, develop an app. Oh, what do I

prompt, develop an app. Oh, what do I prompt? What do I build? Ask Chad GBT

prompt? What do I build? Ask Chad GBT what to build. Copy paste one of those.

what to build. Copy paste one of those. Ask Chad to prompt it. Take it over to

Ask Chad to prompt it. Take it over to repletter lovable, paste it, and see

repletter lovable, paste it, and see what it builds. So, I would use this as

what it builds. So, I would use this as my education and also to build a

my education and also to build a website, right? Chris's automations.com,

website, right? Chris's automations.com, whatever, anything. And then I would

whatever, anything. And then I would take the rest of the money and I would

take the rest of the money and I would put it into ads, right? Um, preferably

put it into ads, right? Um, preferably meta ads, Facebook ads, and I would

meta ads, Facebook ads, and I would target local businesses. Even though

target local businesses. Even though this is a global thing, if I live in

this is a global thing, if I live in Omaha, Nebraska, I could sell this to

Omaha, Nebraska, I could sell this to people in Tokyo. Doesn't matter. I'm

people in Tokyo. Doesn't matter. I'm going to put a radius around Omaha and

going to put a radius around Omaha and my ads are going to say, "I'm Chris and

my ads are going to say, "I'm Chris and I can help put AI into your business."

I can help put AI into your business." I'm going to use fifth grade words. I'm

I'm going to use fifth grade words. I'm not going to use LLM. I'm not even going

not going to use LLM. I'm not even going to say Chad GPT. I'm just going to say,

to say Chad GPT. I'm just going to say, I will make your business more money or

I will make your business more money or save your business money with AI, just a

save your business money with AI, just a service business. And then I'll get on

service business. And then I'll get on discovery calls with these business

discovery calls with these business owners and I'll just start peppering

owners and I'll just start peppering them with questions about their

them with questions about their business. And over time, I'm going to

business. And over time, I'm going to learn based on their answers what their

learn based on their answers what their problems are, what they're struggling

problems are, what they're struggling with. Is it hiring? Is it payroll? Is it

with. Is it hiring? Is it payroll? Is it sales? Usually, it's going to be sales,

sales? Usually, it's going to be sales, right? And then I'm going to take this

right? And then I'm going to take this money over here, this $100, and go back

money over here, this $100, and go back to those apps and start building

to those apps and start building solutions for them for free. just to

solutions for them for free. just to kind of implement myself as an expert.

kind of implement myself as an expert. >> And what are you going to charge them?

>> And what are you going to charge them? >> I'm going to charge them between $500

>> I'm going to charge them between $500 and $5,000 upfront one time to implement

and $5,000 upfront one time to implement it. And then I'm going to charge them

it. And then I'm going to charge them 20% of that amount in an ongoing basis

20% of that amount in an ongoing basis to maintain it and fix it as it breaks.

to maintain it and fix it as it breaks. Let's say there's a gutter cleaning

Let's say there's a gutter cleaning business in Omaha, Nebraska that doesn't

business in Omaha, Nebraska that doesn't want to take calls after hours. He's

want to take calls after hours. He's with his wife watching Netflix and he

with his wife watching Netflix and he knows that's a $3,000 job. he doesn't

knows that's a $3,000 job. he doesn't want to take it. So, it's going to

want to take it. So, it's going to voicemail and they're calling someone

voicemail and they're calling someone else that is taking it, right? So, I'm

else that is taking it, right? So, I'm going to build an AI voice agent for

going to build an AI voice agent for him, which sounds really intimidating.

him, which sounds really intimidating. It feels like we have to have all these

It feels like we have to have all these skills. You don't. You just need to

skills. You don't. You just need to prompt a couple tools a couple times.

prompt a couple tools a couple times. I'm going to build a voice agent for him

I'm going to build a voice agent for him and then I'm going to tell him to call

and then I'm going to tell him to call that agent as if he were a customer and

that agent as if he were a customer and say, "Hey, pretend you're a customer

say, "Hey, pretend you're a customer that needs uh gutter cleaning. You're

that needs uh gutter cleaning. You're calling at 9:30 p.m. and just see how it

calling at 9:30 p.m. and just see how it reacts." He's expecting there to be a

reacts." He's expecting there to be a delay. There's really not. He's

delay. There's really not. He's expecting it to be dumb. It's not. He's

expecting it to be dumb. It's not. He's expecting it to need to know all about

expecting it to need to know all about his business. It doesn't, right? The AI

his business. It doesn't, right? The AI knows about gutter cleaning businesses.

knows about gutter cleaning businesses. Then he's sold, right? Charge him $3,000

Then he's sold, right? Charge him $3,000 for that. You build it and then you

for that. You build it and then you charge them, call it 500 or 600 a month

charge them, call it 500 or 600 a month to maintain it over time. And then the

to maintain it over time. And then the beautiful thing is you can go to every

beautiful thing is you can go to every other gutter cleaning business in Omaha

other gutter cleaning business in Omaha or anywhere and copy and paste that same

or anywhere and copy and paste that same app and sell it to them.

app and sell it to them. >> Gotcha. So selling AI to small business

>> Gotcha. So selling AI to small business owners who are in huge demand but don't

owners who are in huge demand but don't have the time or think they need some

have the time or think they need some sort of incredible

sort of incredible expensive time and resource expensive

expensive time and resource expensive competence to understand AI when

competence to understand AI when actually AI is really really simple.

actually AI is really really simple. >> Yes.

>> Yes. >> And we see this play out over history

>> And we see this play out over history where there's an initial arbitrage when

where there's an initial arbitrage when a new technology comes into play. Mhm.

a new technology comes into play. Mhm. >> In fact, one of the call center jobs

>> In fact, one of the call center jobs that I had when I was very very broke

that I had when I was very very broke many many years ago when I was like 18

many many years ago when I was like 18 um or 19 was calling businesses from the

um or 19 was calling businesses from the yellow pages and selling them Facebook

yellow pages and selling them Facebook ads.

ads. >> I would call a builder on a building

>> I would call a builder on a building site. I'd speak to Dave who's the owner

site. I'd speak to Dave who's the owner of the building company and I'd explain

of the building company and I'd explain Facebook ads to him over the phone and

Facebook ads to him over the phone and then I'd set them up for him and manage

then I'd set them up for him and manage them for him on an ongoing basis and

them for him on an ongoing basis and just send him the leads

just send him the leads >> because he didn't understand Facebook

>> because he didn't understand Facebook ads. And these opportunities seem to

ads. And these opportunities seem to exist

exist >> for years when there's a new technology

>> for years when there's a new technology as as we're seeing with AI.

as as we're seeing with AI. >> But the thing is with that idea and with

>> But the thing is with that idea and with most ideas in my experience, we think

most ideas in my experience, we think there's a very limited time span. But if

there's a very limited time span. But if I were to start that business today and

I were to start that business today and just start calling, it would work.

just start calling, it would work. >> Yeah, you could still do it. Yeah, I

>> Yeah, you could still do it. Yeah, I might have more competitors, but like it

might have more competitors, but like it it doesn't matter. It would still work.

it doesn't matter. It would still work. Interestingly, the the issue back then

Interestingly, the the issue back then was people didn't even know what

was people didn't even know what Facebook ads were. So maybe it works to

Facebook ads were. So maybe it works to some degree better now. People have

some degree better now. People have heard the word.

heard the word. >> Yeah. You were pretty early. Yeah, it

>> Yeah. You were pretty early. Yeah, it was 2015 or something.

was 2015 or something. >> So, it was it was quite rough, but it

>> So, it was it was quite rough, but it was a business nonetheless. Yeah.

was a business nonetheless. Yeah. >> And there was 40 other people in the

>> And there was 40 other people in the room with me in that call center doing

room with me in that call center doing it.

it. >> Wow.

>> Wow. >> So, that's the first idea you have.

>> So, that's the first idea you have. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> What else? $500. What else could you do?

>> What else? $500. What else could you do? >> Okay. Do you want a uh you want a

>> Okay. Do you want a uh you want a physical business or an online business?

physical business or an online business? Or does it not matter?

Or does it not matter? >> What about a physical one?

>> What about a physical one? >> All right. For a physical one, I would

>> All right. For a physical one, I would um have you heard of dropervicing?

um have you heard of dropervicing? >> No. So the phrase drop shipping has kind

>> No. So the phrase drop shipping has kind of has a bad rap and some of it for good

of has a bad rap and some of it for good reason which is basically buying a

reason which is basically buying a product in China uh having a website for

product in China uh having a website for it and basically having the Chinese

it and basically having the Chinese manufacturer or the supplier ship it

manufacturer or the supplier ship it directly to your customer so you don't

directly to your customer so you don't have to take possession of the inventory

have to take possession of the inventory right drop servicing is doing something

right drop servicing is doing something similar with a service call it a let's

similar with a service call it a let's call it a home service business right so

call it a home service business right so in this case it would look like um a

in this case it would look like um a garage repair company that has a website

garage repair company that has a website that looks like they have a physical

that looks like they have a physical presence in a market, but is really just

presence in a market, but is really just a lead genen factory, right? And so what

a lead genen factory, right? And so what you're doing is you're using Facebook or

you're doing is you're using Facebook or Google ads to generate leads, kind of

Google ads to generate leads, kind of like what you were doing on Facebook um

like what you were doing on Facebook um for a local business, and then you're

for a local business, and then you're you're instead of just selling the leads

you're instead of just selling the leads for $20, you're actually doing more of

for $20, you're actually doing more of the work. You're you're subcontracting

the work. You're you're subcontracting out the work to a local business that

out the work to a local business that actually repairs garage doors. They're

actually repairs garage doors. They're the fulfillment arm of the business.

the fulfillment arm of the business. You're the marketing arm of the

You're the marketing arm of the business. So, in essence, you have a

business. So, in essence, you have a garage repair um business without

garage repair um business without actually having one. Like, you don't

actually having one. Like, you don't know anything about garage doors. You've

know anything about garage doors. You've never been on site. You're just drop

never been on site. You're just drop servicing. You're you're sending all the

servicing. You're you're sending all the work to a local company to do it.

work to a local company to do it. >> So, I a car repair company. I I put up a

>> So, I a car repair company. I I put up a car repair website. I use Facebook ads

car repair website. I use Facebook ads to drive people towards it. When they

to drive people towards it. When they click to buy my my car repair, I call a

click to buy my my car repair, I call a local car repair person and say, "Hey,

local car repair person and say, "Hey, I've got a customer here for you. Um can

I've got a customer here for you. Um can you take them?" I book the customer in.

you take them?" I book the customer in. >> They handle the car repair. I take the

>> They handle the car repair. I take the payment and pay the garage. Yep. Great

payment and pay the garage. Yep. Great question. So, let's just say in your

question. So, let's just say in your example, um, an oil change at at some at

example, um, an oil change at at some at Bob's car repair that doesn't have a

Bob's car repair that doesn't have a website is 40 bucks, which is a great

website is 40 bucks, which is a great price. Your website is clean, it's nice,

price. Your website is clean, it's nice, they can pay with a few clicks and it's

they can pay with a few clicks and it's 80 bucks, right? So, you call Bob one

80 bucks, right? So, you call Bob one day and say, "Hey, congratulations. I

day and say, "Hey, congratulations. I have a lead. I don't have a lead. I have

have a lead. I don't have a lead. I have a customer. I want to send you $40. Her

a customer. I want to send you $40. Her name is Mary. She's going to be coming

name is Mary. She's going to be coming in. She has a sequoia. She needs an oil

in. She has a sequoia. She needs an oil change, right? And so Mary just

change, right? And so Mary just interacts with you. She's trusting you

interacts with you. She's trusting you with the money. You don't have to trust

with the money. You don't have to trust Bob with the money. Uh you just send Bob

Bob with the money. Uh you just send Bob the money. You make even more margin

the money. You make even more margin than Bob makes. Right? It's a higher

than Bob makes. Right? It's a higher price service, but what you're charging

price service, but what you're charging for is the better UI, the better user

for is the better UI, the better user experience, and having a a cleaner

experience, and having a a cleaner checkout method. And is there particular

checkout method. And is there particular types of businesses you would target

types of businesses you would target with that approach? Are you targeting

with that approach? Are you targeting ones that have a shitty customer

ones that have a shitty customer experience, bad website, etc. in the

experience, bad website, etc. in the home services, like take your pick. Um,

home services, like take your pick. Um, they pretty much all do, right? Um,

they pretty much all do, right? Um, there are some more established

there are some more established industries like roofing that don't have

industries like roofing that don't have those issues, uh, because they have

those issues, uh, because they have higher margins, so they can afford

higher margins, so they can afford better websites, but um, they pretty

better websites, but um, they pretty much all have a bad experience.

much all have a bad experience. >> Any others at that $500 level that stand

>> Any others at that $500 level that stand out to you?

out to you? >> Yeah, I love um, directory websites.

>> Yeah, I love um, directory websites. What's that?

What's that? >> So, Travel Velocity is a directory

>> So, Travel Velocity is a directory website. Yelp is a directory website.

website. Yelp is a directory website. It's a website with a list of things

It's a website with a list of things that helps people find answers to their

that helps people find answers to their questions more easily. So, another

questions more easily. So, another example of a website could be like

example of a website could be like Wisconsin um ice suppliers.com. I don't

Wisconsin um ice suppliers.com. I don't know if that's a website, right? Where

know if that's a website, right? Where if I need to go buy ice for my party,

if I need to go buy ice for my party, I'm going to Google ice near me. Um some

I'm going to Google ice near me. Um some categories are so niche or so unevenly

categories are so niche or so unevenly distributed that Google Maps is not a

distributed that Google Maps is not a good solution for it. Right? So, you're

good solution for it. Right? So, you're directed to these random directory

directed to these random directory websites that are just lists of other

websites that are just lists of other businesses. Um, and what people are

businesses. Um, and what people are doing is they're proactively creating

doing is they're proactively creating their own directories by scraping uh

their own directories by scraping uh let's say every dog park in Seattle,

let's say every dog park in Seattle, Washington, and putting them on a

Washington, and putting them on a website and then they don't they don't

website and then they don't they don't even drive traffic to it. There's no

even drive traffic to it. There's no paid ads. They just wait for Google and

paid ads. They just wait for Google and for SEO to do its trick. And it's very

for SEO to do its trick. And it's very much an 8020 rule. you could kind of

much an 8020 rule. you could kind of build the architecture for a directory

build the architecture for a directory website with replet or lovable and then

website with replet or lovable and then you just copy and paste it right in

you just copy and paste it right in different markets. Uh so the play here

different markets. Uh so the play here is to have dozens of directory websites

is to have dozens of directory websites and some of them make $0 a month, some

and some of them make $0 a month, some make a few hundred, some make a few

make a few hundred, some make a few thousand, but it's very passive. It's

thousand, but it's very passive. It's like one of those rare things that's

like one of those rare things that's passive yet also doesn't need a ton of

passive yet also doesn't need a ton of money to get to get started.

money to get to get started. >> Where's the money coming from? Where's

>> Where's the money coming from? Where's the revenue?

the revenue? >> Great question. You can either do like

>> Great question. You can either do like display ads.

display ads. >> What's a display ad? just a banner ad on

>> What's a display ad? just a banner ad on a website.

a website. >> And are you having to go and sell that

>> And are you having to go and sell that ad to someone that wants to buy it?

ad to someone that wants to buy it? >> You would just take Google's like ad

>> You would just take Google's like ad network and just put it on your website.

network and just put it on your website. So you don't have to do anything.

So you don't have to do anything. >> So you can just click a button and it'll

>> So you can just click a button and it'll add adverts to your website which you'll

add adverts to your website which you'll you'll then paid for.

you'll then paid for. >> Yep. Or you could um you could just

>> Yep. Or you could um you could just aggregate those leads. Like if we had

aggregate those leads. Like if we had dog parks in Seattle and you know we see

dog parks in Seattle and you know we see on our Google Analytics that we're

on our Google Analytics that we're driving traffic to this one dog park,

driving traffic to this one dog park, then we reach out to them proactively

then we reach out to them proactively and say, "Hey, you notice all these

and say, "Hey, you notice all these customers you've been getting?" That's

customers you've been getting?" That's because I put you on my website. Would

because I put you on my website. Would you like to pay $300 a year or a month

you like to pay $300 a year or a month or whatever for priority placement?

or whatever for priority placement? Right? So, I like to call this

Right? So, I like to call this permissionless marketing. Um, you're

permissionless marketing. Um, you're just proactively adding these businesses

just proactively adding these businesses to a website. They have nothing to lose.

to a website. They have nothing to lose. You have nothing to lose. And then once

You have nothing to lose. And then once you see traffic, then you reach out to

you see traffic, then you reach out to them and say, "Hey, I've been bringing

them and say, "Hey, I've been bringing you more business. Would you like to

you more business. Would you like to start paying for that?"

start paying for that?" >> Interesting.

>> Interesting. And how much money can someone hope to

And how much money can someone hope to make if they execute that strategy well

make if they execute that strategy well in your view? What's realistic

in your view? What's realistic >> with a directory website? It could be

>> with a directory website? It could be tens of dollars a month and it could be

tens of dollars a month and it could be tens of thousands of dollars a month,

tens of thousands of dollars a month, but we're not talking about building

but we're not talking about building another Yelp or Travel Velocity. This is

another Yelp or Travel Velocity. This is a zero employee business with that cost

a zero employee business with that cost almost nothing, less than $100 to start.

almost nothing, less than $100 to start. Um, but it's just a numbers game. You're

Um, but it's just a numbers game. You're not really going to know what directory

not really going to know what directory really hits until months have passed and

really hits until months have passed and until you have a lot of surface area for

until you have a lot of surface area for these experiments.

these experiments. I hear a lot of people talking about

I hear a lot of people talking about vending machines online and I've always

vending machines online and I've always been really curious about that. People

been really curious about that. People say you can make money from vending

say you can make money from vending machines.

machines. >> Yeah. Could you do that with $500?

>> Yeah. Could you do that with $500? >> Absolutely. So, if we were doing another

>> Absolutely. So, if we were doing another physical business, um I would go to

physical business, um I would go to Facebook Marketplace and I would find an

Facebook Marketplace and I would find an existing vending machine uh for $3 to

existing vending machine uh for $3 to $400, right? That could be a snack or a

$400, right? That could be a snack or a drink vending machine. Um often times

drink vending machine. Um often times the expensive part of a vending machine

the expensive part of a vending machine is the credit card reader. It can often

is the credit card reader. It can often cost more or as much as the whole

cost more or as much as the whole machine itself. And then I would use a

machine itself. And then I would use a $100 to stock the machine um with

$100 to stock the machine um with Costco. Costco Sam's Club is where all

Costco. Costco Sam's Club is where all of these operators buy their snacks,

of these operators buy their snacks, believe it or not. And then I just need

believe it or not. And then I just need one business owner to give me a chance

one business owner to give me a chance um to allow me to put the vending

um to allow me to put the vending machine in his lobby. Let's say it's a

machine in his lobby. Let's say it's a car repair business. I can say, "Hey,

car repair business. I can say, "Hey, I'll pay you 100 bucks a month or hey,

I'll pay you 100 bucks a month or hey, I'll split the revenue with you. I'll

I'll split the revenue with you. I'll give you 30% of the revenue." And then

give you 30% of the revenue." And then once I have one, that's the hardest

once I have one, that's the hardest part. Now you have a track record. Now,

part. Now you have a track record. Now, you can say, "Hey, Bob's Auto Repair

you can say, "Hey, Bob's Auto Repair makes $700 a month passively cuz he let

makes $700 a month passively cuz he let me put uh this vending machine there."

me put uh this vending machine there." This is a business that can be passive

This is a business that can be passive if you have an employee to restock it.

if you have an employee to restock it. That is the active part of the business

That is the active part of the business is the restocking and the selling of new

is the restocking and the selling of new locations. Um, but if you have an ATM,

locations. Um, but if you have an ATM, then that becomes even easier because

then that becomes even easier because you can outsource all of the restocking

you can outsource all of the restocking to a cash management company.

to a cash management company. >> How much money could one person hope to

>> How much money could one person hope to make from a vending machine business?

make from a vending machine business? And have you ever run this business

And have you ever run this business yourself?

yourself? >> I have. I've actually been in a

>> I have. I've actually been in a different part of the vertical. I've

different part of the vertical. I've sold vending machines. I posted a a

sold vending machines. I posted a a video to Instagram that got tens of

video to Instagram that got tens of millions of views and we started just

millions of views and we started just importing those vending machines that I

importing those vending machines that I was talking about in the video uh and

was talking about in the video uh and then selling them to entrepreneurs. But

then selling them to entrepreneurs. But the level of revenue is I mean it's as

the level of revenue is I mean it's as much as you want to scale it. I have a

much as you want to scale it. I have a friend in San Diego that makes seven

friend in San Diego that makes seven figures a year uh on vending machines,

figures a year uh on vending machines, just snacks and drinks. Is there an art

just snacks and drinks. Is there an art to good vending machine placement or the

to good vending machine placement or the right things to sell in the vending

right things to sell in the vending machine or anything else?

machine or anything else? >> Yeah, it's funny that you asked that

>> Yeah, it's funny that you asked that because he said, you know, I'm in San

because he said, you know, I'm in San Diego, people are health consscious here

Diego, people are health consscious here and he tested all these healthy concepts

and he tested all these healthy concepts and they all failed. Like people want

and they all failed. Like people want Doritos and Coke and Diet Coke, right?

Doritos and Coke and Diet Coke, right? So that's all they have now. That's

So that's all they have now. That's where the demand is. But the biggest

where the demand is. But the biggest needle mover on this is the location.

needle mover on this is the location. And it's a matter of testing. Back to

And it's a matter of testing. Back to testing, right? Testing what types of

testing, right? Testing what types of locations he landed on. um apartment

locations he landed on. um apartment complexes, like apartment lobbies. He

complexes, like apartment lobbies. He tried auto repair shops and they just

tried auto repair shops and they just weren't high volume. But it's the type

weren't high volume. But it's the type of business kind of like directories

of business kind of like directories where if you have a 100 vending

where if you have a 100 vending machines, um you're going to have 20 of

machines, um you're going to have 20 of them that make $3,000 a month each and

them that make $3,000 a month each and then you're going to have 80 of them

then you're going to have 80 of them that make $400 a month each. But once

that make $400 a month each. But once you find out what types of locations are

you find out what types of locations are the most profitable, then you just start

the most profitable, then you just start directly reaching out to those types of

directly reaching out to those types of locations.

locations. >> I've just finished writing my third

>> I've just finished writing my third book. I haven't firmed up the title yet,

book. I haven't firmed up the title yet, but I have started mocking up some

but I have started mocking up some different designs. And I've been doing

different designs. And I've been doing this with Adobe Express, which is one of

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The typography, the font, the color, the text placement, the stuff that might

text placement, the stuff that might sound petty to most people, but actually

sound petty to most people, but actually compounds to create something that

compounds to create something that stands out, something that's one better

stands out, something that's one better than the rest. And designing my cover

than the rest. And designing my cover art has reminded me of how many creative

art has reminded me of how many creative things I've learned over the year. But

things I've learned over the year. But it's also reminded me that there are so

it's also reminded me that there are so many creative minds around me that are

many creative minds around me that are also sitting on their own secrets. So

also sitting on their own secrets. So I've created the one better guide in

I've created the one better guide in Adobe Express to bring those tips to

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you. And in it, you'll find principles from the very, very best in their

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States where your first shot is completely free of charge. Um, so I have

completely free of charge. Um, so I have another box here. This box

another box here. This box has slightly more money in double. Okay.

has slightly more money in double. Okay. $1,000. What would you do with $1,000?

$1,000. What would you do with $1,000? All right. So,

All right. So, for whatever reason, when I see $1,000,

for whatever reason, when I see $1,000, I think um about the wedding rental

I think um about the wedding rental business. Do you know anything about

business. Do you know anything about that?

that? >> No.

>> No. >> So,

>> So, believe it or not, um weddings are

believe it or not, um weddings are increasing in popularity. People are

increasing in popularity. People are getting out uh getting married outside

getting out uh getting married outside more than ever. I think like 75% of

more than ever. I think like 75% of weddings are outside now, which is

weddings are outside now, which is increasing every year. Um and that

increasing every year. Um and that increases the market for these random

increases the market for these random one-off rentals, right? I read an

one-off rentals, right? I read an article on Reddit about a guy that built

article on Reddit about a guy that built a wedding arch from his garage with some

a wedding arch from his garage with some 2x4s, some lumber. I think he spent like

2x4s, some lumber. I think he spent like 200 or $300 to build it. And he rents it

200 or $300 to build it. And he rents it out to weddings for like $1,000 per

out to weddings for like $1,000 per wedding. And it's just a a piece of wood

wedding. And it's just a a piece of wood for the couples to stand under as they

for the couples to stand under as they say, "I do." Right. And so he works with

say, "I do." Right. And so he works with event organizers or wedding organizers

event organizers or wedding organizers to continually rent it to the wedding

to continually rent it to the wedding organizer.

organizer. >> Exactly. He doesn't go through the

>> Exactly. He doesn't go through the brides. He goes through the wedding

brides. He goes through the wedding planners because surface area they have

planners because surface area they have they're touching all kinds of weddings

they're touching all kinds of weddings on a regular basis. To find these

on a regular basis. To find these wedding planners, you go to the knot,

wedding planners, you go to the knot, you go to zola, wedding wire, you scrape

you go to zola, wedding wire, you scrape them and all of their phone numbers and

them and all of their phone numbers and emails and names and businesses are on

emails and names and businesses are on the website for everyone to see and you

the website for everyone to see and you just start reaching out. And one contact

just start reaching out. And one contact could be one wedding a week. So that

could be one wedding a week. So that could be started that could be in the

could be started that could be in the $500 box, right?

$500 box, right? >> You could spend $300 on supplies. You

>> You could spend $300 on supplies. You could spend $100 on scraping all the

could spend $100 on scraping all the emails quite cheaply. Um, and then you

emails quite cheaply. Um, and then you could spend $100 on gas and then or

could spend $100 on gas and then or let's say another $100 on renting a

let's say another $100 on renting a truck and trailer from Home Depot. Say

truck and trailer from Home Depot. Say you have a car. Say you don't have a

you have a car. Say you don't have a car, right? You've got $400 left over to

car, right? You've got $400 left over to go to a nice meal or to uh or for

go to a nice meal or to uh or for Facebook ads.

Facebook ads. So, photo walls are very popular.

So, photo walls are very popular. shakuerie carts where wedding uh patrons

shakuerie carts where wedding uh patrons can make their own shakuderie board. Um

can make their own shakuderie board. Um you can do like custom pizzas at

you can do like custom pizzas at weddings. You could do wedding arches.

weddings. You could do wedding arches. Um there's a lot of different

Um there's a lot of different opportunities there.

opportunities there. >> Weddings and funerals.

>> Weddings and funerals. >> Yeah, cuz everything you said there

>> Yeah, cuz everything you said there could also apply to funerals.

could also apply to funerals. >> That's true.

>> That's true. >> They don't seem to be stopping either.

>> They don't seem to be stopping either. >> Guess funerals are going to get more

>> Guess funerals are going to get more popular with the population.

popular with the population. >> Yep.

>> Yep. >> Continuing to increase.

>> Continuing to increase. What else? So, wedding rentals is the

What else? So, wedding rentals is the first one you do with $1,000. Anything

first one you do with $1,000. Anything else?

else? >> Yeah. Should we do a an online one?

>> Yeah. Should we do a an online one? >> Sure.

>> Sure. >> So, there's a lot of people nowadays

>> So, there's a lot of people nowadays making money with local email

making money with local email newsletters.

newsletters. >> Are you very familiar with that?

>> Are you very familiar with that? >> No.

>> No. >> So, basically what you do, we keep

>> So, basically what you do, we keep coming back to this is like a big ad for

coming back to this is like a big ad for Facebook, right? I swear it's not.

Facebook, right? I swear it's not. >> But, um, people are using local Facebook

>> But, um, people are using local Facebook ads. Um, let's say you live in Boise,

ads. Um, let's say you live in Boise, Idaho. There's 200,000 people there. You

Idaho. There's 200,000 people there. You post a Facebook ad that says, "Hey, find

post a Facebook ad that says, "Hey, find out what's happening in Boise, Idaho.

out what's happening in Boise, Idaho. One email per week in your inbox. You

One email per week in your inbox. You can acquire a subscriber for about 50

can acquire a subscriber for about 50 cents from Facebook or Instagram." Okay,

cents from Facebook or Instagram." Okay, let's call it a dollar to be to be more

let's call it a dollar to be to be more conservative. Acquire a subscriber for a

conservative. Acquire a subscriber for a dollar. If you sell ads inside that

dollar. If you sell ads inside that email newsletter, you can charge about

email newsletter, you can charge about 50 cents per month um per subscriber.

50 cents per month um per subscriber. So, if we had $1,000,

So, if we had $1,000, I would use a free trial for an email

I would use a free trial for an email newsletter software like Beehive or

newsletter software like Beehive or ConvertKit or any of those. And so, I've

ConvertKit or any of those. And so, I've already spent $0. And I would give all

already spent $0. And I would give all $1,000 to Meta. I would set a defined

$1,000 to Meta. I would set a defined radius in a local area. Preferably, it's

radius in a local area. Preferably, it's where you live, but it doesn't have to

where you live, but it doesn't have to be. It could be on the other side of the

be. It could be on the other side of the world. I've launched this. I tested this

world. I've launched this. I tested this in New Mexico, and it worked. I'd spend

in New Mexico, and it worked. I'd spend $1,000 to acquire a,000 subscribers. Um,

$1,000 to acquire a,000 subscribers. Um, and then I would start sending them

and then I would start sending them weekly newsletters. What's happening in

weekly newsletters. What's happening in Boise, Idaho? Um, discounts in Boise,

Boise, Idaho? Um, discounts in Boise, Idaho. News in Boise, Idaho. I would not

Idaho. News in Boise, Idaho. I would not use Chad GPT to write it. I would write

use Chad GPT to write it. I would write it myself in my own natural language,

it myself in my own natural language, whether I'm a good writer or not.

whether I'm a good writer or not. >> Why?

>> Why? >> Cuz it needs to feel personal. It needs

>> Cuz it needs to feel personal. It needs to feel like a local is writing it. Not

to feel like a local is writing it. Not like an author, not like Chad GBT. Um,

like an author, not like Chad GBT. Um, and then I would use those same

and then I would use those same subscribers to source sponsors.

subscribers to source sponsors. So Bob's car repair owner is potentially

So Bob's car repair owner is potentially in your list. There are 10% of all

in your list. There are 10% of all adults are business owners, right? So if

adults are business owners, right? So if I have a thousand email subscribers, 100

I have a thousand email subscribers, 100 of them are going to be business owners

of them are going to be business owners are going to be potential sponsors to my

are going to be potential sponsors to my newsletter. So after a month or so, I'm

newsletter. So after a month or so, I'm going to put send out an email that

going to put send out an email that says, "Hey, your ad here. I'd love to

says, "Hey, your ad here. I'd love to sponsor your business. It's a very

sponsor your business. It's a very relevant market. It costs $500 uh per

relevant market. It costs $500 uh per send to send your email." Um, so then if

send to send your email." Um, so then if I spend $1,000 to acquire these

I spend $1,000 to acquire these customers, I will get that money back

customers, I will get that money back within two months because I'm I'm making

within two months because I'm I'm making $500 a month. 50 cents per subscriber

$500 a month. 50 cents per subscriber from a,000 newsletter subscribers. And

from a,000 newsletter subscribers. And that can scale um as much as you want.

that can scale um as much as you want. If Boise, Idaho is only so big, you copy

If Boise, Idaho is only so big, you copy and paste the template in another city

and paste the template in another city or a bigger city. Okay, let's move up

or a bigger city. Okay, let's move up then. This

then. This This briefcase has a lot more money in

This briefcase has a lot more money in it.

it. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. $5,000. What side hustle do you start if

$5,000. What side hustle do you start if you've got $5,000?

you've got $5,000? Okay. So, if we've got a sliding scale

Okay. So, if we've got a sliding scale of active to passive income, the closer

of active to passive income, the closer you get to this to $5,000, the more

you get to this to $5,000, the more realistic the passive income becomes.

realistic the passive income becomes. Okay. So, I'm going to go closer to

Okay. So, I'm going to go closer to that. Um,

that. Um, I love RV parks.

I love RV parks. >> What's an RV park?

>> What's an RV park? >> An RV park is one of two things. It's a

>> An RV park is one of two things. It's a place for someone to live in full-time

place for someone to live in full-time for months or years at a time where they

for months or years at a time where they live in an recreational vehicle in an

live in an recreational vehicle in an RV.

RV. >> A camper van.

>> A camper van. >> A camper van. It could be a fixed income

>> A camper van. It could be a fixed income uh retired person. It could be a

uh retired person. It could be a bluecollar worker. It could be a a

bluecollar worker. It could be a a digital nomad. Right? That's kind of the

digital nomad. Right? That's kind of the three categories. Um, the other type of

three categories. Um, the other type of RV park is a a recreational, like a more

RV park is a a recreational, like a more short-term RV park that might be right

short-term RV park that might be right outside of the Grand Canyon or, you

outside of the Grand Canyon or, you know, a popular tourist destination

know, a popular tourist destination where people are staying one to four

where people are staying one to four nights at a time, right? This is a

nights at a time, right? This is a business I've been in for about 7 years

business I've been in for about 7 years now. They have very small RV parks out

now. They have very small RV parks out there that are 3 to 10 pad sites that

there that are 3 to 10 pad sites that are about 3 to 10 times more profitable

are about 3 to 10 times more profitable than buying a single family home as a

than buying a single family home as a rental. Okay. So, I genuinely I don't

rental. Okay. So, I genuinely I don't understand why people buy single family

understand why people buy single family homes because like buying a small RV

homes because like buying a small RV park costs the same but is significantly

park costs the same but is significantly more profitable and more flexible

more profitable and more flexible because you have your your risk is more

because you have your your risk is more distributed amongst five to 10 tenants

distributed amongst five to 10 tenants as opposed to one tenant that could go

as opposed to one tenant that could go bankrupt or disappear in the middle of

bankrupt or disappear in the middle of the night. So, with this $5,000,

the night. So, with this $5,000, um, I would call every small RV park in

um, I would call every small RV park in my area, preferably within a three-hour

my area, preferably within a three-hour drive. I would just find them on Google

drive. I would just find them on Google Maps. This would take a little more time

Maps. This would take a little more time because we can't allocate any of this

because we can't allocate any of this budget to the finding of the park. We've

budget to the finding of the park. We've got to do that very manually with the

got to do that very manually with the our iPhone and our internet connection.

our iPhone and our internet connection. Okay. I'm going to find, in my

Okay. I'm going to find, in my experience, for every 100 parks I find,

experience, for every 100 parks I find, about two or three of them can be a

about two or three of them can be a really good deal. Okay. So, if I get a

really good deal. Okay. So, if I get a 100 people on the phone, I I know I can

100 people on the phone, I I know I can find one good deal from that with seller

find one good deal from that with seller financing because we can't use any of

financing because we can't use any of this to buy the park either. Got a lot

this to buy the park either. Got a lot of constraints. I'm going to use uh

of constraints. I'm going to use uh let's say

let's say 2,000 of these dollars um for my due

2,000 of these dollars um for my due diligence. I've got to get inspections

diligence. I've got to get inspections on the park. I've got to get a title

on the park. I've got to get a title policy on the park to make sure it's not

policy on the park to make sure it's not a scam to make sure that the owner who

a scam to make sure that the owner who says they own it actually owns it. Um,

says they own it actually owns it. Um, and then with the remainder of the

and then with the remainder of the money, I need some operating capital. I

money, I need some operating capital. I need to be able to pay the power bill to

need to be able to pay the power bill to maybe trim some trees to get the park

maybe trim some trees to get the park looking nice on day one. And then to

looking nice on day one. And then to actually buy the park, I need to set up

actually buy the park, I need to set up creative financing with the seller. And

creative financing with the seller. And the best way you can do that is by

the best way you can do that is by building a relationship with the seller,

building a relationship with the seller, building some trust with them, um,

building some trust with them, um, showing them that you're going to take

showing them that you're going to take good care of the park. Now, the unit

good care of the park. Now, the unit economics on this, let's say you buy a

economics on this, let's say you buy a park for $200,000.

park for $200,000. In the real estate world, they're valued

In the real estate world, they're valued on a cap rate basis, which is the profit

on a cap rate basis, which is the profit of the park divided by the asking price

of the park divided by the asking price of the park. So, if I buy a park for a

of the park. So, if I buy a park for a 10% cap rate, that means it's going to

10% cap rate, that means it's going to make $20,000 a year of profit and it's

make $20,000 a year of profit and it's going to cost me $200,000. Okay? So,

going to cost me $200,000. Okay? So, that park probably has no website. It

that park probably has no website. It probably has way undermarket rents. It

probably has way undermarket rents. It probably has occupancy issues because

probably has occupancy issues because they're it has no website. They're not

they're it has no website. They're not doing anything. So, I'm going to get the

doing anything. So, I'm going to get the park to perform by literally posting ads

park to perform by literally posting ads on Facebook Marketplace, free ads,

on Facebook Marketplace, free ads, making a free website with a vibe coding

making a free website with a vibe coding app and um and increasing the occupancy.

app and um and increasing the occupancy. And that $20,000 a year goes to $30,000

And that $20,000 a year goes to $30,000 a year and the park is worth an 8% cap

a year and the park is worth an 8% cap rate. You bought it undervalued at 10%.

rate. You bought it undervalued at 10%. So it's now at $3, I don't know, $60,000

So it's now at $3, I don't know, $60,000 park that you paid $200,000 for. So you

park that you paid $200,000 for. So you can either sell it or you can just

can either sell it or you can just manage it um and enjoy the profits.

manage it um and enjoy the profits. >> When you said seller financing, what

>> When you said seller financing, what what does that mean?

what does that mean? >> That means the seller is holding the

>> That means the seller is holding the note. They are bearing the risk of you

note. They are bearing the risk of you buying the park, but what's in it for

buying the park, but what's in it for them is a they can get the park back if

them is a they can get the park back if you default.

you default. >> Okay. So, they're not actually giving

>> Okay. So, they're not actually giving you the park up front. They're letting

you the park up front. They're letting you have it today on the basis that

you have it today on the basis that you'll pay them in the future with

you'll pay them in the future with profits you make.

profits you make. >> Exactly. So, you're making monthly

>> Exactly. So, you're making monthly payments to them. Um because often times

payments to them. Um because often times they're going to take that money that

they're going to take that money that you give them and they're going to have

you give them and they're going to have to invest it in something else,

to invest it in something else, something they don't understand. So,

something they don't understand. So, your pitch to them is, "Hey, you know

your pitch to them is, "Hey, you know this park better than anyone, right? you

this park better than anyone, right? you know what I can do to fix it. You know

know what I can do to fix it. You know what the deficiencies are. If for some

what the deficiencies are. If for some reason I'm not who I say I am, you just

reason I'm not who I say I am, you just get it back. You take it back and you

get it back. You take it back and you where you started and you keep all the

where you started and you keep all the money that I've paid you some so far.

money that I've paid you some so far. >> How much money have you made from doing

>> How much money have you made from doing this?

this? >> I've made net profit

>> I've made net profit probably 4 to $600,000

probably 4 to $600,000 >> revenue.

>> revenue. >> I would say between 3 and 4 million a

>> I would say between 3 and 4 million a year

year >> with these RV parks

>> with these RV parks >> and mobile home parks as well. Yeah. How

>> and mobile home parks as well. Yeah. How many of them?

many of them? >> I've been involved with 35 or so over

>> I've been involved with 35 or so over the last seven years.

the last seven years. >> What a bad business.

>> What a bad business. >> No, I mean, you're capitalizing on baby

>> No, I mean, you're capitalizing on baby boomers retiring and on millennials

boomers retiring and on millennials traveling and on Yeah, it's just it's a

traveling and on Yeah, it's just it's a growing market. People are getting

growing market. People are getting outside more.

outside more. >> Yeah. What What are the macro things you

>> Yeah. What What are the macro things you you think about at the moment when

you think about at the moment when you're trying to decide on a new side

you're trying to decide on a new side hustle or a new business to start? Are

hustle or a new business to start? Are there like obvious macro things that

there like obvious macro things that happening that we should all be thinking

happening that we should all be thinking about? you just can't ignore AI. Like

about? you just can't ignore AI. Like whatever you're doing, AI has to be part

whatever you're doing, AI has to be part of it. So I like the the framework of

of it. So I like the the framework of implementing new AI tools into old

implementing new AI tools into old businesses. And I like the framework

businesses. And I like the framework that 10,000 um baby boomers are retiring

that 10,000 um baby boomers are retiring every single day and that will be the

every single day and that will be the case for the next 5 to 10 years. What's

case for the next 5 to 10 years. What's the opportunity there

the opportunity there >> to either buy the businesses or to

>> to either buy the businesses or to implement AI into the businesses? Um

implement AI into the businesses? Um those are the two biggest opportunities

those are the two biggest opportunities I see. That's true.

I see. That's true. >> Get them to give you the business. So,

>> Get them to give you the business. So, and you run it better in a more digital

and you run it better in a more digital way.

way. >> Yeah. And you pay them off for that

>> Yeah. And you pay them off for that business when you've made profit from

business when you've made profit from it. If you don't make the profit, they

it. If you don't make the profit, they get their business back.

get their business back. >> Yes. Now, I will say finding seller

>> Yes. Now, I will say finding seller financing on a business is harder than

financing on a business is harder than on a piece of real estate. Um, but it is

on a piece of real estate. Um, but it is possible.

possible. >> Of all the businesses you you've

>> Of all the businesses you you've started, which one has been most

started, which one has been most profitable?

profitable? >> And was the easiest?

>> And was the easiest? >> Oh, man. So, like what is the winner?

>> Oh, man. So, like what is the winner? >> I would say either um my RV parks

>> I would say either um my RV parks business or my my Texas snacks business,

business or my my Texas snacks business, my e-commerce business. Um and they

my e-commerce business. Um and they weren't easy because they're easy

weren't easy because they're easy businesses or industry industries.

businesses or industry industries. They're easy because I had matured

They're easy because I had matured enough to a point to find

enough to a point to find good operators to run those businesses

good operators to run those businesses where I had little to no involvement in

where I had little to no involvement in them. Does that make sense?

them. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. You found people to run them for

>> Yeah. You found people to run them for you so that as a starter they didn't die

you so that as a starter they didn't die the minute you got bored.

the minute you got bored. >> Exactly. Whereas

>> Exactly. Whereas >> they carried on growing and evolving.

>> they carried on growing and evolving. >> Right. Whereas those are both quite hard

>> Right. Whereas those are both quite hard industries. E-commerce is quite hard and

industries. E-commerce is quite hard and uh and real estate is as well. But I had

uh and real estate is as well. But I had good operators.

good operators. >> What have you learned about finding good

>> What have you learned about finding good operators?

operators? H.

H. Oh man,

Oh man, it all comes down to

it all comes down to trust. How much trust am I able to put

trust. How much trust am I able to put in them? How much trust do I have them?

in them? How much trust do I have them? I've found a um a direct correlation

I've found a um a direct correlation between people I know really well um and

between people I know really well um and people that have made really good

people that have made really good operators.

operators. >> How do you incentivize them?

>> How do you incentivize them? >> Directly from the profits of the

>> Directly from the profits of the business

business >> so that they feel more like a

>> so that they feel more like a entrepreneur. they've got more of a of a

entrepreneur. they've got more of a of a piece of the pie.

piece of the pie. >> Yeah, I made the mistake in my 20s of

>> Yeah, I made the mistake in my 20s of dangling a carrot of equity too often.

dangling a carrot of equity too often. Genuinely meaning it like but it most

Genuinely meaning it like but it most equity goes to zero period. Um I put a

equity goes to zero period. Um I put a lot more emphasis on cash flow now in my

lot more emphasis on cash flow now in my 30s than I do on equity. I think equity

30s than I do on equity. I think equity is overrated. And so nowadays, I'm less

is overrated. And so nowadays, I'm less likely to give an operating partner

likely to give an operating partner equity, not because I don't think they

equity, not because I don't think they deserve it, but because it's more likely

deserve it, but because it's more likely to go to zero, and I'm more likely to

to go to zero, and I'm more likely to cut them in on the profits so they can

cut them in on the profits so they can get paid ongoing

get paid ongoing >> on an annual basis or quarterly basis,

>> on an annual basis or quarterly basis, etc.

etc. >> Quarterly. Yeah.

>> Quarterly. Yeah. >> Interesting. H is there any side hustles

>> Interesting. H is there any side hustles that you've heard about that you wish

that you've heard about that you wish you'd started?

you'd started? >> It's funny because a lot of the ones

>> It's funny because a lot of the ones that I wish I started, I started. Like a

that I wish I started, I started. Like a lot of the 80 that I've done, I just

lot of the 80 that I've done, I just it's something that I thought about for

it's something that I thought about for 2 weeks. I can't get it out of my head.

2 weeks. I can't get it out of my head. And I just I have to get it out of my

And I just I have to get it out of my head. And so if I start something and it

head. And so if I start something and it fails,

fails, I don't really care because I don't

I don't really care because I don't invest a lot of money into it. And I

invest a lot of money into it. And I answered the question. I don't have to

answered the question. I don't have to like stay up at night wondering if that

like stay up at night wondering if that thing would have worked anymore.

thing would have worked anymore. Sometimes I'll like run these tests on

Sometimes I'll like run these tests on Facebook that show me such amazing

Facebook that show me such amazing results that just kind of unlock an

results that just kind of unlock an opportunity for me. Can I give you an

opportunity for me. Can I give you an analogy?

analogy? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Have you ever been deep sea fishing? Uh,

>> Have you ever been deep sea fishing? Uh, not deep sea fishing. No.

not deep sea fishing. No. >> Okay, so here's a real story. I was out

>> Okay, so here's a real story. I was out deep deep sea fishing and we were just

deep deep sea fishing and we were just throwing lures and we weren't getting

throwing lures and we weren't getting any any uh bites and the captain reaches

any any uh bites and the captain reaches in under the seat and he pulls out

in under the seat and he pulls out straws from McDonald's, McDonald's

straws from McDonald's, McDonald's straws specifically because they have

straws specifically because they have red and yellow stripes along the side of

red and yellow stripes along the side of them and he pulled out scissors and he

them and he pulled out scissors and he started cutting them into fourths. And

started cutting them into fourths. And then he he took the hook off the line

then he he took the hook off the line and he he put the string through the

and he he put the string through the straw and then he tied the hook back on.

straw and then he tied the hook back on. He's like, "I know, seems crazy. Just

He's like, "I know, seems crazy. Just stick with me." And we casted it out and

stick with me." And we casted it out and we started getting bites. And I'm like,

we started getting bites. And I'm like, "What is it was the same place with the

"What is it was the same place with the same lure, same hook with just a straw."

same lure, same hook with just a straw." And I'm like, "What? Why does this

And I'm like, "What? Why does this work?" And he's like, "It's the colors.

work?" And he's like, "It's the colors. It's like the white and the red and and

It's like the white and the red and and it just spins as you reel it in and it

it just spins as you reel it in and it it mimics a fish." And I was like, "How

it mimics a fish." And I was like, "How did you learn this? Like what made you

did you learn this? Like what made you think to try this?" He's like, "I don't

think to try this?" He's like, "I don't know. Uh maybe alcohol was involved. I

know. Uh maybe alcohol was involved. I don't know." But like that worked and we

don't know." But like that worked and we started catching fish the rest of the

started catching fish the rest of the day. So it just got me thinking like

day. So it just got me thinking like entrepreneurship is this massive ocean

entrepreneurship is this massive ocean with millions of varieties of fish,

with millions of varieties of fish, billions of fish, some sharks, some

billions of fish, some sharks, some minnows. And so many of us go out there

minnows. And so many of us go out there and we cast a few times and we just go

and we cast a few times and we just go back home. We're like, "Entreneurship

back home. We're like, "Entreneurship doesn't work. It's not for me. Back to

doesn't work. It's not for me. Back to the 9 to5." But we're not testing enough

the 9 to5." But we're not testing enough stuff. There's different depths. There's

stuff. There's different depths. There's different baits. We could spray

different baits. We could spray something on it to make it smell

something on it to make it smell different. We could put a McDonald's

different. We could put a McDonald's straw on it. And occasionally we'll find

straw on it. And occasionally we'll find something. We'll get a bite. And maybe

something. We'll get a bite. And maybe we won't get another bite for another

we won't get another bite for another hour, but the bite is a signal. And it's

hour, but the bite is a signal. And it's like, oh, there's something there. Okay,

like, oh, there's something there. Okay, let's try that again, but try this. Or

let's try that again, but try this. Or maybe let's just cast a 100 more times.

maybe let's just cast a 100 more times. And then you get a fish. And then you

And then you get a fish. And then you get a bigger fish. And like the more

get a bigger fish. And like the more you're out there, not just focusing on

you're out there, not just focusing on one type of fishing, but increasing your

one type of fishing, but increasing your surface area and trying all kinds of

surface area and trying all kinds of different things, the more you learn.

different things, the more you learn. Like the more you you test and like now

Like the more you you test and like now you have a bunch of sharks in the boat

you have a bunch of sharks in the boat and you have this and you have this and

and you have this and you have this and you have all these options at your

you have all these options at your disposal. We're eating shark tonight.

disposal. We're eating shark tonight. We're eating grouper. We're eating

We're eating grouper. We're eating snapper. You have this amazing life

snapper. You have this amazing life that's dynamic and full of color and all

that's dynamic and full of color and all these other awesome things are coming

these other awesome things are coming into play because you stayed out there

into play because you stayed out there and you didn't just do one thing, you

and you didn't just do one thing, you tried all these other things. So that's

tried all these other things. So that's how I look at business. Like I'm out

how I look at business. Like I'm out there on the ocean testing other things

there on the ocean testing other things and even if I don't catch anything, it's

and even if I don't catch anything, it's fun. And uh I think other people should

fun. And uh I think other people should try that too.

try that too. A lot of people want sexy stuff, don't

A lot of people want sexy stuff, don't they? They want to build the next

they? They want to build the next Facebook or they want to do the a chat

Facebook or they want to do the a chat GPT or the AI app that does this, that,

GPT or the AI app that does this, that, and the other. Do you think that's in

and the other. Do you think that's in part a trap for for the average person

part a trap for for the average person to be aiming at sexy? Yeah. Because the

to be aiming at sexy? Yeah. Because the fact that everyone wants sexy means the

fact that everyone wants sexy means the fact that the sexy things are the most

fact that the sexy things are the most competitive. It's the exact reason why

competitive. It's the exact reason why we should go as unsexy as possible

we should go as unsexy as possible because no one's looking at it.

And looking forward, Chris, what is um is there anything that you're mulling

is there anything that you're mulling over now in terms of new business ideas

over now in terms of new business ideas that you could give me?

that you could give me? >> Man, I lately it's been about like stuff

>> Man, I lately it's been about like stuff I can launch with my content. Um I like

I can launch with my content. Um I like I love the phrase unfair advantage,

I love the phrase unfair advantage, right? I will only start businesses

right? I will only start businesses today where I have an unfair advantage.

today where I have an unfair advantage. Everyone has an unfair advantage in

Everyone has an unfair advantage in something, right? Even a a 13-year-old

something, right? Even a a 13-year-old has an unfair advantage. they might know

has an unfair advantage. they might know roadblocks better than anyone, right? So

roadblocks better than anyone, right? So unfair advantage is not, you know, only

unfair advantage is not, you know, only for the rich or the wealthy or the elite

for the rich or the wealthy or the elite or the most experienced or the PhDs,

or the most experienced or the PhDs, right? So I try to start businesses

right? So I try to start businesses where I have an unfair advantage and

where I have an unfair advantage and that might be because I can grow it with

that might be because I can grow it with my content. It might be because I have a

my content. It might be because I have a bunch of friends in that space or I have

bunch of friends in that space or I have a unique knowledge or insight into that

a unique knowledge or insight into that space. So if I have a zillion ideas and

space. So if I have a zillion ideas and a spreadsheet a mile long with a bunch

a spreadsheet a mile long with a bunch of business ideas, the ones I'm most

of business ideas, the ones I'm most likely to start are the ones where I

likely to start are the ones where I have an unfair advantage. a right to

have an unfair advantage. a right to win.

win. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I have this phrase called mirage

>> I have this phrase called mirage opportunity

opportunity >> which um which I use when I look at an

>> which um which I use when I look at an industry that never seems to work for

industry that never seems to work for anybody but seems so obvious.

anybody but seems so obvious. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> Do you know what I'm saying?

>> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I do. I'm thinking of something.

>> Yeah, I do. I'm thinking of something. Yeah. And I this has been a bit of a a

Yeah. And I this has been a bit of a a way for me to know what not to work on

way for me to know what not to work on is if I see everybody trying to solve

is if I see everybody trying to solve this particular problem and nobody's

this particular problem and nobody's been successful yet more and more people

been successful yet more and more people are plowing in and yet it seems obvious

are plowing in and yet it seems obvious to me I just stay away from it

to me I just stay away from it >> because there's something in my

>> because there's something in my understanding of consumer behavior or

understanding of consumer behavior or current alternatives that I'm like

current alternatives that I'm like misunderstanding.

misunderstanding. >> Mhm. An example I'll give you.

>> Mhm. An example I'll give you. Everyone at the moment is trying to

Everyone at the moment is trying to start a So this is the first the sort of

start a So this is the first the sort of first principles they're reasoning up

first principles they're reasoning up from. They're saying people are more

from. They're saying people are more lonely than ever before. They're saying

lonely than ever before. They're saying there's no clear place to organize a

there's no clear place to organize a group of people. WhatsApp has its um has

group of people. WhatsApp has its um has its limitations, its restrictions,

its limitations, its restrictions, doesn't have the feature set one would

doesn't have the feature set one would like. Facebook groups aren't working for

like. Facebook groups aren't working for a certain generation of people anymore

a certain generation of people anymore for for sort of Gen Z's and younger

for for sort of Gen Z's and younger generations, millennials. So, what I'm

generations, millennials. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to make an app

going to do is I'm going to make an app for groups. Mhm. Your run club, your

for groups. Mhm. Your run club, your friends, your piano recital group, your

friends, your piano recital group, your your entrepreneurs. We're going to build

your entrepreneurs. We're going to build all the group features into this app and

all the group features into this app and it's going to be dedicated to that. I've

it's going to be dedicated to that. I've heard this pitch over and over again.

heard this pitch over and over again. I've seen all of them. None of them seem

I've seen all of them. None of them seem to have any traction or work.

to have any traction or work. >> It's a mirage. Something fundamental

>> It's a mirage. Something fundamental about your assumptions is off.

about your assumptions is off. >> Yeah. When I said mirage opportunities,

>> Yeah. When I said mirage opportunities, did you think of anything in particular?

did you think of anything in particular? >> I stay away Yeah. Just I stay away from

>> I stay away Yeah. Just I stay away from businesses where where I I don't know

businesses where where I I don't know why it's not working, but clearly it's

why it's not working, but clearly it's not working.

not working. >> Yeah. I think of banking or healthcare,

>> Yeah. I think of banking or healthcare, right? Like banking is terrible. Like

right? Like banking is terrible. Like look at the UI at Bank of America. It's

look at the UI at Bank of America. It's why is it it's like h it's probably like

why is it it's like h it's probably like that for a reason, right? Or like

that for a reason, right? Or like Amazon's UI is terrible. It's like what

Amazon's UI is terrible. It's like what is it? It's like they probably know why

is it? It's like they probably know why it looks like that, right? I assume

it looks like that, right? I assume they're smarter than I am. One idea that

they're smarter than I am. One idea that I thought of is like everyone hates

I thought of is like everyone hates typing in their password a zillion times

typing in their password a zillion times a day. So you have like these password

a day. So you have like these password managers, but I've seen a dozen

managers, but I've seen a dozen companies that are like going to fix the

companies that are like going to fix the password, right? Some like replacement

password, right? Some like replacement to a password and they've all failed and

to a password and they've all failed and it's probably because it's it's a really

it's probably because it's it's a really hard problem to solve and I don't want

hard problem to solve and I don't want to try to invest in a person that's

to try to invest in a person that's trying to solve it cuz statistics are

trying to solve it cuz statistics are not on their side. Another one that

not on their side. Another one that comes to mind for me is at university

comes to mind for me is at university every entrepreneurial college kid

every entrepreneurial college kid decides that they're going to build a

decides that they're going to build a onampus what's going on app to let

onampus what's going on app to let everybody know what's going on on

everybody know what's going on on campus.

campus. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And they never seem to work.

>> And they never seem to work. >> Yeah. And I think the reason why they

>> Yeah. And I think the reason why they don't work is because both you're losing

don't work is because both you're losing 33% of your potential customers every

33% of your potential customers every year and gaining 33% new customers every

year and gaining 33% new customers every year. So you have a bit of an

year. So you have a bit of an acquisition problem, but then also

acquisition problem, but then also people don't decide what they're going

people don't decide what they're going to do based on some notice board. They

to do based on some notice board. They decide based on their dorm room friends

decide based on their dorm room friends and where they're going and where the

and where they're going and where the girl they like is going.

girl they like is going. >> And you and so it's not really about

>> And you and so it's not really about what's going on. It's like what does my

what's going on. It's like what does my group of people want to do. I think

group of people want to do. I think that's I think that's the mirage in

that's I think that's the mirage in that. Well, I thought of another example

that. Well, I thought of another example that's like building apps around

that's like building apps around podcasting.

podcasting. >> Oh my god. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Oh my god. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. >> I have a friend that he had a podcast.

>> I have a friend that he had a podcast. >> It's a great one.

>> It's a great one. >> That helped podcasters, right? And it

>> That helped podcasters, right? And it was great. Like really I listen to it

was great. Like really I listen to it and he he realized over time like I'm

and he he realized over time like I'm selling to a market that quits, right?

selling to a market that quits, right? I'm asking for customers to pay for my

I'm asking for customers to pay for my thing that are statistically like 95% of

thing that are statistically like 95% of them are going to quit within 6 months.

them are going to quit within 6 months. So it's just a broken market to sell to.

So it's just a broken market to sell to. And then the 5% that are successful,

And then the 5% that are successful, what percentage of them are actually

what percentage of them are actually profitable? What percentage of them can

profitable? What percentage of them can afford to pay for an expensive agency or

afford to pay for an expensive agency or software? Very few

mirage opportunities. I like that. I I would Yeah, it's a it's been a really

would Yeah, it's a it's been a really useful framework because it's the

useful framework because it's the obvious ones that no one's doing, but

obvious ones that no one's doing, but there's clearly a huge opportunity that

there's clearly a huge opportunity that I think pulls people in the most. But

I think pulls people in the most. But for me now with the with the amount of

for me now with the with the amount of time I've spent starting businesses,

time I've spent starting businesses, those are the ones that push me away the

those are the ones that push me away the most.

most. >> Yeah. Well, it all comes back to the

>> Yeah. Well, it all comes back to the value of just copying what's already

value of just copying what's already working.

working. >> Amen. Is there anything we haven't

>> Amen. Is there anything we haven't talked about that we should have talked

talked about that we should have talked about, Chris? For young and old people

about, Chris? For young and old people that are considering starting their own

that are considering starting their own business, their own side hustle,

business, their own side hustle, building passive income.

building passive income. Many of the people that think they want

Many of the people that think they want to be an entrepreneur, they just like

to be an entrepreneur, they just like the idea of it and they think there's

the idea of it and they think there's freedom in entrepreneurship when

freedom in entrepreneurship when oftentimes it's even more of a prison

oftentimes it's even more of a prison than their 9 to5.

than their 9 to5. >> It can be at least in the first years,

>> It can be at least in the first years, not months, not years, sometimes

not months, not years, sometimes decades, right? And so I want people to

decades, right? And so I want people to answer the question for themselves. Is

answer the question for themselves. Is this for me? So they don't regret.

this for me? So they don't regret. They need to find out if they love the

They need to find out if they love the idea of it or they like the actual

idea of it or they like the actual day-to-day grind of it. um because they

day-to-day grind of it. um because they they probably won't, but I want them to

they probably won't, but I want them to find out.

find out. >> Such an important point because the

>> Such an important point because the narrative online at the moment is, you

narrative online at the moment is, you know, be your own boss, etc., etc. And I

know, be your own boss, etc., etc. And I I just I don't think people I'm speaking

I just I don't think people I'm speaking for myself here. I don't want to speak

for myself here. I don't want to speak for you, but I don't think people

for you, but I don't think people realize how many people I have to answer

realize how many people I have to answer to.

to. >> Oh, yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. >> I have all of my team members, which is

>> I have all of my team members, which is hundreds of people. Then I have my

hundreds of people. Then I have my investors. I have my suppliers, my

investors. I have my suppliers, my clients. So, it's not like I'm living as

clients. So, it's not like I'm living as a free man.

a free man. >> Yeah. I'm less free now than I was

>> Yeah. I'm less free now than I was before.

before. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> When I started all this stuff,

>> When I started all this stuff, >> isn't it nice when someone just also

>> isn't it nice when someone just also just tells you what to do and exactly

just tells you what to do and exactly what path to take?

what path to take? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Like my wife does that. She's like,

>> Like my wife does that. She's like, "Hey, I need you to do this." It's like,

"Hey, I need you to do this." It's like, "Oh, it's so nice. I don't have to like

"Oh, it's so nice. I don't have to like think like thank you." You know, so I

think like thank you." You know, so I have bosses in other areas of my life

have bosses in other areas of my life and it's really nice. Like there's

and it's really nice. Like there's something to be said for a 9 to5. And

something to be said for a 9 to5. And some people have no desire to even test

some people have no desire to even test an entrepreneurship. Great. All power to

an entrepreneurship. Great. All power to you, but I want people to test it. And I

you, but I want people to test it. And I think, you know, people would look at

think, you know, people would look at someone like me or you and think, oh,

someone like me or you and think, oh, you know, they've got total freedom. But

you know, they've got total freedom. But this is just not the case. Even for me

this is just not the case. Even for me as a podcaster, you know, I'm now kind

as a podcaster, you know, I'm now kind of somewhat

of somewhat constrained by the fact that I need to

constrained by the fact that I need to publish on a Monday and I need to

publish on a Monday and I need to publish on a Thursday and that means

publish on a Thursday and that means lots of other work takes place

lots of other work takes place throughout the week and

throughout the week and >> um I can't just go to Hawaii and chill

>> um I can't just go to Hawaii and chill out and spend a month off and then I've

out and spend a month off and then I've got all my clients now and the team

got all my clients now and the team members, etc. So, I'm I'm I think I'm

members, etc. So, I'm I'm I think I'm starting a bit of a war against this

starting a bit of a war against this idea that

idea that >> independence and total freedom.

>> independence and total freedom. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Is both something to aim for but also

>> Is both something to aim for but also like realistic

like realistic >> when you're pursuing something you love.

>> when you're pursuing something you love. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> I think a generation have been sold this

>> I think a generation have been sold this idea of independence. And I don't think

idea of independence. And I don't think it's gotten us anywhere. Yeah.

it's gotten us anywhere. Yeah. >> Like that. That's the goal. Freedom,

>> Like that. That's the goal. Freedom, independence. Don't depend on anybody.

independence. Don't depend on anybody. >> Right. But when I look on your your

>> Right. But when I look on your your life, you've got four kids, you've got

life, you've got four kids, you've got lots of responsibility, you've got

lots of responsibility, you've got employees, you've got businesses, you've

employees, you've got businesses, you've got so much dependency

got so much dependency and that's probably the source of much

and that's probably the source of much of your happiness.

of your happiness. >> Yeah, exactly. My quote of this year is

>> Yeah, exactly. My quote of this year is there are no solutions, only trade-offs.

there are no solutions, only trade-offs. >> Entrepreneurship is not a solution.

>> Entrepreneurship is not a solution. You're trading something for it. The

You're trading something for it. The question is, is that trade-off worth it

question is, is that trade-off worth it or not? And we won't know until we try

or not? And we won't know until we try it.

it. >> And what's the trade-off you're making?

>> And what's the trade-off you're making? stability, um, lack of volatility. Um,

stability, um, lack of volatility. Um, yeah, predictability. My life has been

yeah, predictability. My life has been volatile and unpredictable. Um, but the

volatile and unpredictable. Um, but the more I do it, the more predictable it

more I do it, the more predictable it becomes in a good way. Uh, but that's

becomes in a good way. Uh, but that's been the trade-off is the mental load of

been the trade-off is the mental load of not knowing where my paycheck's coming

not knowing where my paycheck's coming from or if it's coming at all.

from or if it's coming at all. >> It's not for the faint-hearted.

>> It's not for the faint-hearted. >> No.

>> No. Chris, we have a closing tradition where

Chris, we have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the

the last guest leaves a question for the next not knowing who they're leaving it

next not knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you, I

for. And the question left for you, I love this question for obvious reasons,

love this question for obvious reasons, is during your interview with Steven

is during your interview with Steven today, what is one thing he did that you

today, what is one thing he did that you genuinely appreciated.

I appreciate that the questions you asked me got me to look at the things

asked me got me to look at the things I've been looking at in one way

I've been looking at in one way completely differently. I came into this

completely differently. I came into this conversation,

conversation, you know, looking at things in a

you know, looking at things in a specific way in in ways that I always

specific way in in ways that I always have, but your questions got me to

have, but your questions got me to approach it from a different angle. um

approach it from a different angle. um that made me learn something more about

that made me learn something more about my own story, if you will.

my own story, if you will. >> And what was that in particular? Was

>> And what was that in particular? Was there a specific thing you're you're

there a specific thing you're you're thinking about?

thinking about? >> Maybe just the overall framework that

just that it's it's not for everyone. It's not for everyone. Um, and that we

It's not for everyone. Um, and that we just need to learn if the trade-offs are

just need to learn if the trade-offs are worth it.

worth it. >> There's an element of your personal

>> There's an element of your personal trauma, experiences, upbringing,

trauma, experiences, upbringing, insecurities, toxic fuel that makes the

insecurities, toxic fuel that makes the trade-offs worth it makes you in some

trade-offs worth it makes you in some respect unreasonable,

respect unreasonable, >> unrealistic, willing to take the risk.

>> unrealistic, willing to take the risk. And we don't talk about that enough

And we don't talk about that enough because we're not able to go into

because we're not able to go into people's trauma and the nuance of their

people's trauma and the nuance of their life and childhood and what their dad

life and childhood and what their dad said to them and what the how they were

said to them and what the how they were bullied

bullied >> to be able to like

>> to be able to like trans transmit into their mind to make

trans transmit into their mind to make that to figure that out for themselves.

that to figure that out for themselves. But I think probably is in both your

But I think probably is in both your life and my life. I mean you we both I

life and my life. I mean you we both I think have ADHD to some degree and we

think have ADHD to some degree and we have a brainwire in a certain way. So

have a brainwire in a certain way. So it's not it can seem like we're making a

it's not it can seem like we're making a choice but I it often doesn't feel like

choice but I it often doesn't feel like that for me.

that for me. >> Doesn't feel like I'm making a choice.

>> Doesn't feel like I'm making a choice. It feels like there is no other choice.

It feels like there is no other choice. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> In the same way that one might make a

>> In the same way that one might make a choice to get a 9 toive job.

choice to get a 9 toive job. >> I have I I I think for me that would be

>> I have I I I think for me that would be a terrible thing.

a terrible thing. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> And vice versa probably.

>> And vice versa probably. >> Yeah. Well, what you just said just

>> Yeah. Well, what you just said just brought up a memory. I don't know if

brought up a memory. I don't know if it's relevant to this or not, but you

it's relevant to this or not, but you said ADHD. When I was in undergrad, I

said ADHD. When I was in undergrad, I got tested for ADHD. And the

got tested for ADHD. And the psychiatrist said, um, it was a big

psychiatrist said, um, it was a big report. I'm summarizing it to the only

report. I'm summarizing it to the only sentence that I remember, but she said

sentence that I remember, but she said that I just had delusions of grandeur,

that I just had delusions of grandeur, right? Uh, it wasn't like an official

right? Uh, it wasn't like an official diagnosis. It was one line in like an

diagnosis. It was one line in like an eight-page document, but I saw that just

eight-page document, but I saw that just like bounce off the page and I was like,

like bounce off the page and I was like, how do you know that's a delusion?

how do you know that's a delusion? Right? Like it's only a delusion if

Right? Like it's only a delusion if enough time has passed so we could look

enough time has passed so we could look back and say, "Yeah, he was wrong. He

back and say, "Yeah, he was wrong. He was way off base."

was way off base." >> By delusions of grandeur, what does she

>> By delusions of grandeur, what does she mean?

mean? >> She means like I had unrealist

>> She means like I had unrealist unrealistic expectations about how my

unrealistic expectations about how my life would turn out. Um, and that that

life would turn out. Um, and that that was causing strife in my personal

was causing strife in my personal relationships.

relationships. And I thought it was wrong. I still

And I thought it was wrong. I still think it was wrong. But it it put a chip

think it was wrong. But it it put a chip on my shoulder. It planted a seed that I

on my shoulder. It planted a seed that I never forgot. I have that printed. It's

never forgot. I have that printed. It's in my my drawer at work. Um,

in my my drawer at work. Um, >> what does he say?

>> what does he say? >> Just I just have like literally the

>> Just I just have like literally the report that she gave me back in 2009.

report that she gave me back in 2009. Uh, it's like highlighted and drawn up

Uh, it's like highlighted and drawn up in in my in my drawer at work and I just

in in my in my drawer at work and I just look at it sometimes for motivation

look at it sometimes for motivation because what what is a delusion of

because what what is a delusion of grandeur? Like I have plans of grandeur.

grandeur? Like I have plans of grandeur. This is a plan. Um, and so I think about

This is a plan. Um, and so I think about her sometimes. She probably has no idea

her sometimes. She probably has no idea who I am. She probably forgot all about

who I am. She probably forgot all about me. Uh

me. Uh >> if people want to learn more, where's

>> if people want to learn more, where's the best place they should go to to

the best place they should go to to check your work out? You've got your

check your work out? You've got your podcast on YouTube.

podcast on YouTube. >> Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> Um it's not necessarily a podcast in the

>> Um it's not necessarily a podcast in the same way that this is a podcast. It's

same way that this is a podcast. It's much more sort of practical and specific

much more sort of practical and specific around specific subject matter. So I

around specific subject matter. So I highly recommend people go check that

highly recommend people go check that out. I'm going to link it below and put

out. I'm going to link it below and put it on the screen. But where else?

it on the screen. But where else? Where's a good place to get in touch

Where's a good place to get in touch with you or to consume your work?

with you or to consume your work? >> Probably tkopod.com

>> Probably tkopod.com as in

as in >> tkopod.com. The kerner office. It's just

>> tkopod.com. The kerner office. It's just like my main website.

like my main website. >> And people can sign up here for your

>> And people can sign up here for your newsletter.

newsletter. >> A newsletter. Yep.

>> A newsletter. Yep. >> One email per week.

>> One email per week. >> What do you send out?

>> What do you send out? >> Like a very tactical guide on how to

>> Like a very tactical guide on how to start X, Y, or Z business. And I ask my

start X, Y, or Z business. And I ask my audience like what they want to learn

audience like what they want to learn about. So they tell me and then I dive

about. So they tell me and then I dive deep and then break it all down for

deep and then break it all down for them. I'll link that as well below for

them. I'll link that as well below for anyone that's interested. What is the

anyone that's interested. What is the most popular, most frequent request you

most popular, most frequent request you get through that website

get through that website >> on business ideas to talk about? Yeah,

>> on business ideas to talk about? Yeah, >> probably the AI agency, the AI

>> probably the AI agency, the AI implementation agency idea that I talked

implementation agency idea that I talked about.

about. >> And what is the most viral video you've

>> And what is the most viral video you've ever made?

ever made? >> Oh man, that was about a um just this

>> Oh man, that was about a um just this Chinese street vendor that sold ice

Chinese street vendor that sold ice cream. She had this little uh

cream. She had this little uh contraption. It was like a frozen

contraption. It was like a frozen cylinder that she poured cream over and

cylinder that she poured cream over and it would scrape off ice cream in this

it would scrape off ice cream in this really visually appealing way. And so I

really visually appealing way. And so I I basically broke down in 30 seconds

I basically broke down in 30 seconds like you could pay $200 for this, you

like you could pay $200 for this, you could post it at any given street corner

could post it at any given street corner and you could make $1,000 by the end of

and you could make $1,000 by the end of the day. So it's like A B C here's how

the day. So it's like A B C here's how to get to this revenue. Um and like 30

to get to this revenue. Um and like 30 or 40 million people saw it.

or 40 million people saw it. >> I'll put the uh the video on the screen

>> I'll put the uh the video on the screen for anyone that's interested in that as

for anyone that's interested in that as well, just so you know what this ice

well, just so you know what this ice cream contraption is.

cream contraption is. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Chris, thank you so much.

>> Chris, thank you so much. >> Thank you so much for for being yourself

>> Thank you so much for for being yourself in every respect. You teach me that

in every respect. You teach me that there's many ways to skin a cat. As the

there's many ways to skin a cat. As the saying goes, there's many ways to become

saying goes, there's many ways to become successful, to be happy, to be motivated

successful, to be happy, to be motivated in your life. There's many ways to

in your life. There's many ways to become a millionaire. Some of it bucks

become a millionaire. Some of it bucks sort of conventional wisdom of how to

sort of conventional wisdom of how to grow a business. I think that is

grow a business. I think that is actually liberating to know that your

actually liberating to know that your own unique wiring and your own unique

own unique wiring and your own unique perspective and a guy can drive you to

perspective and a guy can drive you to the same outcome of financial freedom if

the same outcome of financial freedom if you do have the self-awareness, if

you do have the self-awareness, if you're willing to work hard and if you

you're willing to work hard and if you can cope with the opinions of others.

can cope with the opinions of others. Um, and also if you're willing to

Um, and also if you're willing to sacrifice tremendously, because you have

sacrifice tremendously, because you have sacrificed tremendously, and especially

sacrificed tremendously, and especially as someone as a man that has a young man

as someone as a man that has a young man that has four kids, you've taken on your

that has four kids, you've taken on your shoulders a huge amount of risk. And I

shoulders a huge amount of risk. And I applaud you for both simplifying and

applaud you for both simplifying and demystifying the pursuit of side hustles

demystifying the pursuit of side hustles and business and entrepreneurship for so

and business and entrepreneurship for so many people because I think um, in the

many people because I think um, in the world we live in, it's probably going to

world we live in, it's probably going to become more and more important that

become more and more important that people have more options. Agreed. um in

people have more options. Agreed. um in a world of AI and if Elon Musk is to be

a world of AI and if Elon Musk is to be successful in creating the age of

successful in creating the age of abundance that he's describing, then uh

abundance that he's describing, then uh maybe we're all going to end up as

maybe we're all going to end up as entrepreneurs. Who knows? Who knows?

entrepreneurs. Who knows? Who knows? Thanks. Thank you. Thank you as well.

>> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you

to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the D of a CEO.

to come even deeper into the D of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a

Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm

brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many

launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you

incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that

are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the

are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never

conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes

released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guest and also

conversations with the guest and also the episodes that we've never ever

the episodes that we've never ever released. And so much more. In the

released. And so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me.

circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show

You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and

to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would

the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now,

love us to have. But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000

we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So,

people that join before it closes. So, if you want to join our private closed

if you want to join our private closed community, head to the link in the

community, head to the link in the description below or go to

description below or go to daccircle.com.

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YouTube Transcript:Passive Income Expert: How To Make $10k Per Month In 90 Days!

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Passive Income Expert: How To Make $10k Per Month In 90 Days!