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1 Progressive vs 20 Far-Right Conservatives (ft. Mehdi Hasan)

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My family lineage is settlers from the 1500s.

1500s. Colonialists.

Colonialists.

Yeah, colonialist.

You don't look very Native American to me.

me.

Native I am Native American. Whites are

Native Americans. What are you talking about?

about?

What are you talking about?

You're a little bit more than a farright Republican.

Republican.

Hey, what can I say?

I think you can say I'm a fascist.

Yeah, I am.

Listen to me. I am an immigrant. I'm

speaking from personal experience. I

don't even like

I should get the hell out. Why?

I don't want you here.

I'm Mandy Hassan. I'm a journalist. I'm

the editor of Zateo. And today I'm

My first claim is Donald Trump is pro-

Welcome.

Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you. I'm Eddie. Uh, I would

just like to ask, um, what makes someone

pro crime versus, you know, anti-rime?

I think when you're soft on criminals,

when you let criminals out of prison,

when you pardon people who assaulted

police officers, you're pro- criminal.

Donald Trump pardoned almost 1,600

people who were involved in January the

6th. I think 600 of them had been

charged with assaulting a police officer

or obstructing a police officer. 170 had

plead guilty to assaulting a police

officer. 70 had plead guilty to assault

with a deadly weapon. JD Vance said,

"We're not going to pardon the violent

criminals from January 6th." Donald

Trump pardoned all of them. Are you okay

with that?

Uh, I would say January 6th is a very

special case. I would say it's a very

it's almost a a climax point in history,

I would just phrase the question this

way. Right now in the LA protest, if

they were to

just for example, they were to rush the

capital of LA, I mean, they'd have to

move over all the homeless people living

in tents on the steps of the capital.

But if they were managed to get into the

capitol and they were just protesting,

you know, peacefully, let's say police

officers were rushing them in. They were

letting them in and saying, "Hey, you

guys can go in." Like we have many

testimonies that say,

"What about the violent ones, though?"

Okay, violent ones like

like a man named David Dempsey, a judge,

a Reagan appointed judge sentenced him

to 20 years in prison. He stomped on

police officers heads. The judge said

his conduct was exceptionally egregious.

He attacked police officers with flag

poles and pepper spray. Donald Trump

pardoned him. There's a man named Daniel

Rodriguez. He got 12 years in prison for

taking a stun gun and tasing a police

officer in the neck and giving him a

heart attack. The judge said he was a

one-man army of hate. Donald Trump

pardoned him. Does that not make Trump procriminal?

procriminal?

He's letting violent criminals out of prison.

prison.

I would say no. It doesn't make him

procriminal. One You're okay with that?

I did not say that. I said that one

pardon against somebody.

It was 1,600 pardons. 600 those were charged.

charged.

One example that you just gave me.

I can give you more. I keep going. Fine.

Fine. And I'll say the exact same thing

every single time. your argument will

fall apart because it's not just one

example if I keep going.

Go for it then.

Okay. Shane Jenkins got seven years in

prison for nine criminal offenses,

attacking police with a deadly weapon,

destroying government property pardons

that probably shouldn't have happened

turn into proime.

So you've agreed that they shouldn't

have been pardoned.

Sure. But that wasn't your claim was

January 6. Your claim was Trump is pro crime.

crime.

Yeah. Because he pardons criminals.

Okay. I would pardon Let's talk about

non- January 6 people. He's pardoned

people like Paul Walsh recently who took

millions of dollars from his own

employees, was sentenced to tax crimes,

had to pay back $4 million. Trump

pardoned him. He bought himself a $2

million yacht. Why is he pardoning

criminals like that?

Uh, well, I don't know. I don't think

you should I don't think really

presidential pardon should be a thing at

all. But I don't think I don't think

that means something.

You've been voted out by the majority.

Please return to your seat. Thanks.

How's it going? Hey, how's it going? Medi,

Medi,

what is it? Medi,

Medi,

you're from Northern UK, I guess.

I'm from London, North London.

Okay, fair enough. What's your ethnic

background if you don't mind asking?

My parents are from India.

Okay, perfect. Just getting premise

here. First of all, I want to say

the premise of Donald Trump being pro crime.

crime.

No, no, no. I want to concern myself

with why you care about what's happening

in the US first and foremost. Secondly,

I want to say this with the argument like

should people who live in the US or

let's not interrupt each other because

I'm I have this thing like people know I

have this thing I have to stay calm.

Okay. So, okay.

okay.

Here's the thing. I am happy that he

released J6. In fact, so much so that I

was prepared to protest if he didn't.

Okay. So, when you say are you okay that

he's pro- crime? Sure. Because you know

what? We're changing the definition of

what crime is first and foremost.

You don't think stomping on police

officers heads is a crime? I don't think

it's it's it's no longer a relevant

conversation anymore. You're arguing.

No, it's not because you know what?

Okay. Have you seen the US in the last

four or five years, BLM protests? Have

you seen Okay. I myself have been

involved in these protests. I've seen

egregious things, things that you

couldn't even imagine

to conservatives. It's not about that.

It's about tribal warfare. That's where

we're at in the US. I don't know where

you're at in the UK. You're from India,

so I don't really

I'm not from India.

Oh, sorry. Your parents are from India.

So, you have your own stakes.

I'm an American. You know,

you're an American citizen. Okay, fair

enough. I don't know how you got that,

but fair enough. Here's the thing.

Are you an American citizen? Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But here's the thing.

Not sure how you got that. Okay.

Born here. Okay.

Okay.

Born here. And my my family lineage is

settlers from the 1500s. So, I have some

stake in in the claim here. Okay. A

little different.

But you're a descendant of immigrants. Settlers.

Settlers. Colonialists.

Colonialists.

Yeah. Colonial.

You don't look very Native American to me.

me.

Native. I am Native American. Whites are

Native Americans. What are you talking about?

about?

What are you talking about?

Whites are Native Americans.

Really? I I think

what was happening before the 1500s I

think you're getting confused with

I don't mind going on a tangent what was

happening before the 1500s calm down I

think you're getting what was happening

before the 1500s

uh there was indigenous people here that

came here from

you know what indigenous means

listen before

indigenous people come from somewhere

else why do you ask a question if you're

going to interrupt

I'm not sure if you know what the

meaning of indigenous means

I do know what it means means they came

here first right they came here from

Asia by way of landbridgeidge have an

argument with Neil deGrasse Tyson or

anybody else about that I don't care I

genuinely don't care yes he is okay.

My my point is my point is okay

nothing to do with crime. So far you've

agreed with me that these people

you're derailing dude. I'm like I'm

trying to

literally sat down and ask me where I'm

from. I think you derailed this

conversation from the get by that. But I'm

I'm

not offended. I'm just wondering what it

has to do with crime. Always curious.

We're going to talk about immigration.

Don't worry. Later on you can come back.

I hope so.

Right now you're doing a very bad job of

making the case that he's not pro crime.

Got a round of applause. I probably get

another one actually if I ask for it. So

So I I don't think you get rounds of

applause. You sit in a room with 20

people who agree with you. Wow. Amazing.

Amazing. That must be

this comes out. You know what? I'm

actually 20 people who agree with you.

Personally outraged right now. This is

this is great. Do I have to say anything

at this point or you just going to keep going?

going?

Please make make your claim.

Well, my claim is that I don't care if

it's pro crime. You want to go back to

the topic of conversation?

That's fine. We agree then crime.

I have a question for you though. Do you

care on the opposite side of the

spectrum? Yes.

Do you care about law being administered

to the opposite side of the spectrum? I

think anyone who assaults a police

officer shouldn't be pardoned. I think

that Donald Trump shouldn't have

pardoned nine Republican members of

Congress who were convicted of crimes.

And I don't think Joe Biden should

commit I don't think Democrats should

pardon Democrats.

Fair, but I don't think you understand

where we are in the US. That

I think I do.

No, because you're arguing from the

position of like an a US that doesn't

exist anymore. We're headed towards

So nihilism, no laws, nothing matters. Everyone's

Everyone's

program. It's not about that. It's that

conservatives for Listen, conservatives

for too long have been playing it safe.

They've been playing by the law. They've

been playing by the law. Yes, they have.

Maybe you missed the Bush presidency.

Did you live here during the Bush years?

Conservative conservatives are play by

the law. George W. Bush, nor did Ronald Reagan.

Reagan.

Let's be Let's be respectful to you.

Let's let me

I'm not sure you've been that

respectful, but Okay.

I'm trying to bring it back. So, let's

both bring it back. Okay.

I'm conservative. Okay. Really?

Really?

Let me tell you this. We do play it too

safe. We've been playing it by the book

for too long. At this point, gloves are

off, right? The left has made their

point. They're willing to

The police force in Washington. The left.

left.

Are you kidding me? The left. Are you

are you in police officers?

Look Okay, look at LA right here. You

think those standown uh those standown

You think the LAPD are a bunch of

liberal Marxists?

No, but I think they listen to liberal

Marxists who tell them what to do.

I I think they listen to who signs their

paychecks at the end of the day. You're

doing lots of little diversions. We both

agree Donald Trump's prom. You're just

fine with it. That's what you said so far.

far.

I don't agree with your I don't agree

with your definition.

What's your definition of crime?

Stomping on a police officer's head is

not a crime. That's your definition of

crime as the Native American.

I am Native American if you say so.

So, going back to the topic at hand, we

have different definitions of crime

because you're talking about

there's a criminal code in this country.

It's called the US criminal code.

You know what? Let's focus on what we

agree on. I'm sure you and I actually

agree on a lot.

Do we agree that people shouldn't stomp

on police officers heads? Can we agree

on that? If you don't agree on that,

then I really think this conversation is

kind of

No, because first of all, you're saying

what? That the police have the authority

that they're given the authority. I

don't accept the authority that's been

given by liberals conservative position.

The conservative a pro police

then you don't know what a real Hey,

listen. You're juggernauts right now.

I'm telling you right now, you are going

to be blown open. If you think that

we're going to struggle with the English

language for the next couple hours, then

what you're up against right now, okay?

Yeah. News flash, the conservatives are

liberal to me. Okay. Neocons,

libertarians, all those mainstream

people, there might as well be leftists

to me. Okay, that's how far to the right

I am. Do you understand my position? So

when you say I kind of guessed it when

you said that when you say uh you know

about obeying police, why would I give

the authority to police? Do you know do

you know you're an American do you think

Donald Trump should be pardoning nine

members of Congress who committed

financial crimes? Are you are you pro

financial crime? You pro financial crime

Timbo is pause.

I think the people who clapped you have

voted you out.

All right, head back to your seat.

You've been voted out by the majority.

Hi there.

Hi sir, how are you?

Hey, so I'm going to be as respectful

about this as possible, but the truth is

your claim is completely bad faith. You

do not care about being anti-rime. You

yourself are pro crime. Your side is pro

crime because you're a progressive.

How am I proimer?

So I'll give you an example, right? So

your side, not Donald Trump, has passed

a series of laws in California. Let's go

with California. It's where we are right

now. It's where I'm from. I don't Are

you from California or Okay. So in

California, for example, the state

legislature, completely progressive,

just passed a law that limits sex

offender registration to 10 years. It

was life before. That's proime. The

legislature in California, which is

progressives again, has passed a law

that says the voter induced three strike

law is no longer absolute. If someone

attempt murders someone, stabs someone

on three separate occasions, a judge now

does not have to give them life. That's

a progressive law. That is not that is

proime. You support that, don't you? I

actually don't support uh sex offenders

coming off a list. I think they should

be on for life.

Okay. So, you disagree with you and so

so hold on. You and I both agree that

sex offending is a bad thing, especially

child sex offending. Right.

It seems like you and I agree on that.

California doesn't.

So, I'm not here to debate the

legislative California. I'm here to

debate Donald Trump being pro crime. And

I'm saying I'm saying that Donald Trump

was friends with Gileain Maxwell when

Gileain Maxwell who's the worst child

sex trafficker of our lifetime. She's

serving over 20. Do you know Gain Maxwell?

Maxwell?

Yeah. She's actually not. Jeffrey

Epste's the worst sex.

He's dead. I'm talking about people are

alive right now.

It's interesting though you didn't use

his name, right? Wouldn't he be the one

who did this?

Oh, great. Hey, I'm glad you brought up

Jeffrey Epste. Jeffrey Epste before he

died did an interview with Michael Wolf.

He's on tape. I don't know if you've

heard the tape. He says, "My closest

friend was Donald Trump. I was his

closest friend." Uh Elon Musk, I'm not

sure if you've heard of him. He tweeted

recently that Donald Trump's name is in

the Epstein files. And Gileain Maxwell,

who was the right-hand woman of Jeffrey

Epstein, when she was on trial for child

sex offending, which you and I are

opposed to. Donald Trump stood up and

said, "Good luck to her. I wish her

well." So, yeah, that makes him pro

crime and procriminal if he's being soft

on child sex traffickers. Like Epste

was friends. He was friends with Epste.

You haven't seen the videos. They dance

together, party together. He knows he's

not supported the pedophilia part. The

only people true. Trump gave a speech

about 20 years ago where he said

Epstein's a great guy. He loves young

women. A lot of them are very young.

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, laugh, laugh.

So yeah, I think he's pro crime and pro

criminals. I think Do you have any

friends who are criminals?

Not that I know of. Certainly not child

sex offenders. No. Do you?

If it came No, of course not.

Okay. So, we're both in agreement again. If

it came out tomorrow that one If it came

out tomorrow that one of your friends

was a child sex traff, you'd stop being

friends with them. But I wouldn't say

and then I'd go on TV and I would say,

"Oh, look, Mr. Hassan was friends with

this guy 10 years ago. Therefore, he's

trial." Mr. Hassan said, "I wish them

well when they're on trial." Wouldn't

you ever have a go at me for that?

You wish your well you wish your friend

well on trial.

Yeah. Child sex trafficker. Would you

mean that?

I wouldn't wish someone well, but that's

your that's your gotcha.

It's a pretty big wish.

Pretty big gotcha. He praised what

you're really trying to do right now. Is

your Donald Trump

says his name? What's his policy?

You want to talk policies? So when he

left office in 2020, he left behind the

highest murder rate for over 100 years.

He left behind the highest murder. That

is the most bad faith claim you could

possibly make.

It's a fact from the CDC.

You know what? Here's why it's bad

faith. I'm Can I finish the sentence?

And then you come back in.

You're just lying to people. Donald

Trump lying. Can I finish the sentence?

Donald Trump does not cause the murder

rate. Murder is a state level. That's

hilarious. Gavin Newsome is more

responsible for the murder rate than

Donald Trump is. That's hilarious. So

Donald Trump's not responsible murder

rate, but other politicians who are

Democrats because it's a state law.

That's like saying no. That's No, I'll

say Republicans are too. State governors

who are soft on crime are the ones that

Who's doing the murdering?

The murderers.

So, aren't they responsible for

Why did it go up on his watch? What?

What?

Why did it go up on his watch? He's very

bad. That's fighting crime.

That's a real hard one to figure out,

right? We shut down the whole economy

during COVID. We told everyone they

couldn't go out unless it was to

violently protest. We told people that

if a cop tries to arrest you, that cop's

probably going to get charged with murder.

murder.

No, I think the pandemic had a lot to do

with it. The pandemic didn't finish in

2020. What?

The pandemic didn't finish in 2020.

Why the murder rate? If we're going to

play the one, you guys blame Joe Biden

for crime for years.

What? Joe Biden actively induces

policies that are pro crime. I'm asking

Donald Trump. Name the policy that's

crime. I'll blame I've asked you for

like 10 minutes. I'll name one right

now. No, you haven't. You talked about

California legislatores. Um he pardoned

violent criminals. He then went on to

commit other crimes. You don't think

releasing violent crimes into

pardon is a one time thing. What's his

policy he has pushed? Name a law he has.

No. A pardon is a one time thing is a

policy is not one time thing.

That's like Jimmy Carter pardon the draft.

draft.

They want to dodge January 6 the pardon.

I'm not judging that. Did you write a

Jimmy Carter pardon? Does that mean his

policy was support? Do you support Do

you support the pardoning of people who

went on to be prosecuted for sexually

abusing a seven-year-old child, illegal

gun possession, reckless homicide?

There's more. See, there's more. He

didn't pardon someone for sexually

abusing a child someone for rebelling

against the government that they believe

had rigged elections. That's what he

pardoned them for. He didn't pardon them

for sexual child abuse.

But they were criminals who committed

those crimes. He let them out. So that

means the crime rate goes up.

Here's a You say they're criminals

because they did the crime, right? Would

you extend that to illegal immigrants

that they're all criminals because they

committed a crime? I have a feeling your

position the Supreme Court Supreme Court

we're going to talk about immigration

someone who's illegally entered the

United States not a criminal but someone

capital is not according to Supreme

Court of the United States

the Supreme Court has said that anyone

who enters the United States illegally

and we can we can jump to Can I get the

case? Can I get the case?

Jump to You want to get the case

the case the case site please for you

said the Supreme Court

the citation of the case.

Yes. That entering the United States

illegally is not a crime.

It's called Arizona versus United States

2012. Go look it up.

Pause. You've been voted out by the

Hey, how's it going?

How you doing, sir?

Nice to meet you, M. Nice to meet you.

Thank you for coming. I appreciate you.

I really just more want to get an

understanding. When you say procriminal,

what do you mean?

I mean that when confronted with people

who've committed criminal acts, Donald

Trump has been either soft on them,

friendly with them, pardon them, and of

course, let's not forget, I mean, we've

got five minutes left. I'm surprised it

hasn't come up earlier. He's a convicted

criminal himself sitting in the White

House. Okay. I want to make sure I

understand you correctly because I don't

want to straw man you. You're saying

I appreciate that.

Every time that he's been confronted,

not every time. Don't say the words

every time.

Most times. A lot of the time.

A lot of the times.

He's leaned towards criminal activity.

I didn't say criminal activity. He I

mean he has committed crimes. He's been

indicted for 88 different criminal

offenses in four different jurisdictions

by five different grand juries. He was

convicted himself on 34 different

criminal offenses by a jury of his

peers. But let's part that for a moment.

separate to his own crimes. When

confronted with the crimes of others or

the alleged crimes of others, for

example, a Chinese crypto billionaire

called Justin Sun who was being

investigated for market manipulation,

Trump dropped the case, invited him to

the golf course, invited him to the

White House

$70 million in Trump's crypto. What I

want to ask you, proime in my view,

is it possible because remember the

burden of proof's on you, right? You

have to prove. Is it possible that all

these these things that he's done that

supposedly make him pro crime is there's

another reason for the for the doing?

There's other justification for example

for let me let me give an example and

then you can about it

the J6 is it possible that he could have

done this to unite the country to move

past to go to a new chapter if it's even

possible I think you would have to admit

that there's another possibility

therefore he's not pro crime

at least possibility

so let me agree and disagree with

so I agree with you that the intent

could be different I don't think Donald

Trump was sitting there saying how can I

increase the level of murders let me

release some murderers I'm not saying he

did that on January 6

I don't think he was trying to unite the

country. That's where we disagree.

That's [ __ ] In fact, he divided the

country further. But intent doesn't

really matter to my claim. If he's

releasing violent criminals,

wait in doesn't matter.

No, he's pro- crime and pro criminal.

No, but that's a big indictment to say

pro crime. That means crime.

I'm fronted. If Well, he is because for

I gave him No, no, no. It could be

possible. Sorry. Forgive me.

Your friend earlier, your ally said, uh,

where has he done stuff that's increased

the crime? I'm telling you, people have

been pardoned who have been convicted on

multiple other crimes. These people who

he pardoned had previous criminal

records. They were not just some folks

chilling around go, we're against the

take over our country. We're opposed to

rebellion. They were a lot of these

people were already hardened criminals,

militia members. He looked at those

people and said, you know what, they've

been convicted in many cases by

Republican judges,

but I'm going to let them out. Yeah,

that makes

Is it possible? And if Joe Biden had

done it, you'd be attacking him.

Sure. Is it possible that their

conviction was part of a plea? It's

like, "Oh [ __ ] I can't get out of this,

so I got to take a plea deal."

Some of them maybe, others, others we

saw with our own lying eyes on tape,

battering police officers. I mean, did

you watch Did you watch live on January

6th? What happened?

To be completely honest, I'm pretty

novice on this. I'm more trying to

target. You're saying he's pro crime in

my head just thinking this live. Let me

finish back for one second. If thinking

this, there's a possibility that he

might have had other reasons. For

example, unifying the country next

chapter, right? That that could be the

reason. Therefore, it's not pro- crime.

There was other reasons. I'm just saying

that's a possibility. And if that's

I'm saying it's a possibility, but I'm

saying it's irrelevant because if you

are releasing knowingly releasing

violent criminals out into the

community, pardoning, not just

releasing, then yes, you are being

procriminal. And I've interviewed police

officers. I don't know about that. I've

interviewed police officers who have

been assaulted, beaten, had to retire

from the police office, broken bones.

Let me say that. I'll finish very

quickly. I've interviewed these police

officers. They've been beaten by people

who they've then seen walk off the

streets and then carry on threatening

them. Yes. When Donald Trump is

responsible for that, you're definitely

pro crime.

Okay. I I I doubt a lot of the sources, but

but

you doubt police officers who testified

to being assaulted.

You've been voted out by the majority.

Please return to your seat. Thanks.

Hey, how's it going?

Good. How are you?

Nice to meet you, Maddie. Um, so you

claim that your main claim is that Trump

pardoned some people from January 6. By

the way, I was there. Um, I saw it all

firsthand. Uh, about a football field

away. There's smoke in my eyes, a

bloodied. It was It was a crazy day.

Were you convicted of any crimes?

No, of course not, cuz I didn't enter

the building. Um, you know, stayed very peaceful.

peaceful.

Um, but your entire claim is that he

pardons your bets basically. You keep

bringing it up. All you do is bring it

up. I'll mention Let me say this. I'm

okay with his pardoning of Paul Walch

who from his employees. You keep talking

about nine former members of Congress.

That's why he keeps pardoning criminals.

That makes him

You know who else pardoned? A big criminal.

criminal.

Go on.

Hunter Biden was pardoned by his father.

He did crack cocaine and he had hookers

there, too.

I'm with you all. I'm with you all.

But then why don't you claim that Biden

Why don't you claim that

I think Joe Biden in that instant was

programmed. He shouldn't have done it.

Well, he was overall pro just because he

did that.

No, but Joe Biden didn't just So Joe So

if it was just a pardon, then you'd be

fine. But I already mentioned there's

also the fact that Joe Biden wasn't

actually convicted criminal in office.

Trump has committed crimes. Trump hangs

around with criminals. He spent much of

the 80s hanging around with the New York

mob. He hung around with Jeffrey Epste

and Gileain Maxwell.

Well, that whole that I can keep going.

Jeffrey Epstein lived in West Palm Beach

to the area and that's the closest golf

course he go to. Do you think he's very

paid? Do you think Donald Trump is as

soon as Trump found out? Do you think

Donald Trump is in the Epstein?

No, I do not. And you're on. Let me

explain. Let me explain this. Okay.

He lived in the area in Mara Lago near

Mara Lago. So he bought obviously uh

ticket to go in there. As soon as Trump

found out that Epstein had done all

those bad things, immediate ban from

immediate ban from Yes, it is. Yes, it

is. In fact, Gile recruited some of the

girls that were abused from Maraago.

So um so listen to this.

From Mara. That's pretty outrageous, right?

right?

Elon Musk tweeted that out in fit of

rage. Okay. Do you really tell the truth

when they're angry? The truth comes out

when people are angry sometimes. So

Cashel Cash Patel literally said that

Elon Musk had no access to the Epstein

files. So

Cash Patel said that Epstein killed

himself. Do you agree with that?

Whatever he says goes then. Yeah, I

don't I don't care. He knows more

information than I do. A

lot of magic.

He knows more information than I do. But

but here's here's the actual claim.

Suddenly people are trying to vote you

out because you said you agree with Cash

Patel on Epstein.

I he knows more information than I do.

Pause. That's time. Please return to

your seat.

Good to meet you.

Yeah. Take care.

Surrounded is now a podcast available

wherever you listen. Search Surrounded,

plug in and stay part of the

My next claim is that Donald Trump is

Nice to meet you.

Pleasure to meet you, sir.

May lovely to meet you. So, I would say

that with Trump being anti-constitution,

I don't really care to be quite frankly

because in regards

in regards to the Constitution, the

Constitution is a document that should

seek to serve us. And when it fails to

seek to serve us, that can be amended.

Laws can be changed. And quite frankly,

the fact is we're defending things in

this country that shouldn't be defended.

The First Amendment should not defend

pornography and making children and

women be victimized.

making women and children be victimized

as a result of that. I think things like

blasphemy shouldn't be allowed per the

first amendment. I think that quite

frankly there are a lot of legal

processes that are enabling criminals

and bad people to fully enact their will

in this country in the name of the

constitution or following the

constitution. So quite frankly, if Trump

is anti-constitution, good. And I think

he should go further.

So this is this is wonderfully revealing

of the modern conservative mindset. So I

appreciate you spelling it out so

openly. Um, just checking. Do you

support the Second Amendment?

I do.

Okay. Surprise. I was shocked to hear

that. Um, I'm saying that Donald Trump

is defying the First Amendment, the

Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment,

the 14th Amendment. He's thinking of

defying the 12th and 22nd amendments.

You're saying you don't care about the

Constitution, but actually you do

because you quite like the Second

Amendment. You just don't like the bits

that you disagree with. Can I just be

clear on that?

Yeah, absolutely. I'm more than willing

to I'm more than willing to amend it and and

and

whenever it's in your favor.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, can Democrats do the same when

they're in office?

No, absolutely not. Because Democracy?

No, I don't. Absolutely not.

What do you believe in? Autocracy.

Autocracy.

By who?

Honestly, quite frankly, anyone who is

in line with Catholic teaching.

Donald Trump is not Catholic.

Of course, he's not. I completely agree.

That's the problem.

You don't support Trump.

No, I don't. I didn't even vote for him.

I wrote in like John Pork or someone. I

can't even remember.

Why did you vote if you don't believe in

democracy and you want autocracy?

Well, cuz quite frankly, I voted. I kind

of voted just to

I came with this argument, but I'm bored

of my own argument. I'm much more

interested in this. So, absolutely.

How do we get to an autocracy?

I think quite frankly that if we are

able to enact local leaders,

we by the way,

I think quite frankly these farright

conservatives sitting right around

white people.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, I have quite some of the people in

this room don't make the cut from what I

can see visually.

Actually, hold on for a moment. I do

think that there are people who happen

to not be white who do actually have

history in this country and have roots

in this country. For instance, from the

Mexican-American War, we subsumed a lot

of territory of people who have far

stakes in this country who happen to be

Hispanic or what have you. I'm for

defending the traditional demographics

of this country, which is majority

white. I should stay that way.

How does the United States

I mean, we've gone so off topic, but how

does the United States look like under

your Sorry, what's your name?

Um, uh, my name is, uh, well, my name's

Connor. It's a pleasure to meet you.

Took a little bit of a doubt there.

I I I use a pseudonym online. Fair enough.

enough.

How would Connor<unk>'s America look?

What would it look like?

Well, quite frankly, I think we would

deport people who shouldn't be here.

I didn't ask deporting. What does the

government look like?

What's the government look like? I would

say quite frankly, it's under a sort of

benevolent leader such as, you know,

h it could be a kind of aristocratic

class. Could be someone

who picks the autocrat.

Frankly, the people. I mean, we could

hold a vote on it. Kings.

Isn't that democracy?

Well, sure. You can have a vote to get

to that state

and then no more votes afterwards. Absolutely.

Absolutely. 100%.

100%.

Wow. And if that autocrat kills you and

your family, you're fine with that.

Well, I'm not I'm not going to be a part

of the group that he kills because

that's a whole thing. Autocrats tend to

kill everyone makes this point very well

in his work. It's the friend enemy

distinction, right? You call the Nazi theoretician.

theoretician.

Absolutely. I don't care.

Are you a fan of the Nazis?

I don't I frankly don't care being

called the Nazi.

I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I

said, "Are you a fan of the Nazis?"

Well, they persecuted the church a

little bit. I'm not a fan of that. But

what about the persecution of the Jews?

Well, I mean, I I certainly don't

support anyone's human dignity being

assaulted. I'm a Catholic,

but you don't condemn Nazi persecution

of the Jews.

I I think that there was a little bit of

persecution rename this show because

you're a little bit more than a farright Republican.

Republican.

Hey, what can I say?

I think you can say I'm a fascist.

Two.

Absolutely. I'm just checking who's

clapping just to get my set of where

everyone is on this because you know

that millions of people are going to be

watching you on YouTube and checking out

who the fascists and the Nazis are.

I'm I'm not ashamed of that whatsoever.

During the pre during the pre-war

period, prior to World War II, it was

only those parties that properly enacted

the people's will. That's why they won.

The conservatives were fat cats in Are

you in favor of killing people who

aren't like you?

Quite frankly, I'm not

You mentioned Franco earlier. Franco

killed a lot of innocent people.

Oh, well, he killed communists. He

killed people who raped nuns and killed priests.

priests.

What about children who he killed and

women who he killed?

What are you talking about? He never

killed any women or children. He was captive.

captive.

He only killed combatants. Is that what

you're claim?

Yeah, he only killed combatants killed

any white the white terror was only

punishing those people who did acts of

terrorism. And again, are you supporting

like raping innocent women? Nuns, dude,

killing priests. I mean, priests don't

brandish guns and killed.

You just refuse to condemn the Nazi

Holocaust, my friend. I don't think

you're in a position to ask anyone any questions.

questions.

I I quite frankly don't care what you

think about me. If if I'm a Nazi and

being a Nazi is mutual and being a Nazi

means upholding human dignity because I

even believe in your dignity. I don't in

a state that I was running I wouldn't

want I wouldn't want to hurt you or

anything like that. But quite frankly,

I don't debate fascists.

Okay. So, do you do you concede then? I

mean, why

do I concede you're a fascist who won't

condemn the Nazis? Yes, I concede that.

Okay, great. So, I I I mean, what are we

doing here? Cuz I mean, you just seem

you just seem offended to be quite

frankly like

I'm offended by people who can't condemn

the Nazis. Yes, I am.

Okay. Well, I I condemn the evils that

they did, but I don't really care about

being Yeah, sure. I don't care though

about being called a Nazi is the whole

thing. I never called you a Nazi, a

fascist, and a General Franco.

Yeah, I am a General Franco supporter.

He was awesome. He was so super cool

quite frankly because the whole thing

And you don't believe in democracy.

I don't believe in democracy.

What are you doing here at a televised debate?

debate?

This is democracy. I want a debate.

It is the means to support an end. The

reason we have free speech now is

because we want to be openly talking

about our opinions so we can get the

state that we want. But it doesn't mean

free speech after we win. Again, I

mentioned the only good thing about this

fascist moment. The whole reason is that

you guys are so open about it. The whole reason

reason

the whole reason I mentioned Carl

Schmidt earlier and you kind of blew

past him is the friend enemy distinction.

distinction.

because even liberals when they take

power, they want to enact policies and

they want to act enact protections for

their people and their ideas and they're

willing to punish their enemy. And so

I'm the same way. I'm like, "Hey, if

you're going to punish me, I'm going to

get in power and I'm going to frankly

punish you when you try to leverage

I'm not sure what you would have said.

Hey, it is what it is.

All right, pause. You've been voted out

by the majority. Please return to your seats.

seats.

It's a pleasure to meet you, sir. I

Good to meet you, Mandy.

Good to meet you, sir. All right. So, I

kind of want to start at the basics or

the foundation. I want to see

Can I just check? Are you a fascist? No.

No.

Okay. I I don't I describe myself as I

think just a Christian. I'm a fair I'm a

devout Christian.

Good to hear. So,

So,

um I want to start like what is your

connection to the Constitution and why

why do you love it so much? Like what

what makes it so important that Trump

would defy something like the

Constitution to you personally?

Great questions. Uh my first connection

is I'm an American citizen. I

naturalized American citizen. Took a

pledge uh to this country to the

Constitution. Uh, as a previous uh,

speaker has said, constitution is not

perfect. A lot of things I don't like

about it. I don't like the second

amendment. Um, there's various

amendments. I don't like the way the

Senate is set up. I'm sure there's

things you don't like about the

Constitution. The difference is, I don't

think you can just illegally defy the

Constitution. I don't think each and

every one of us can make up whatever we

want. Certainly presidents who are

elected with an oath, right? Donald

Trump took an oath to preserve, protect,

defend the Constitution. And now when

he's asked on television, "Isn't it your

job to uphold the Constitution?" He said

on NBC, "I don't know." which goes

against his oath. And I'm identifying

specific amendments where he is

violated. He's only six months into his

presidency, defying the first amendment,

the fourth amendment, the fifth

amendment, the 14th amendment. He wants

to defy the 22nd amendment and be

president for a third term. Um, this is

the problem we have right now. Free

speech is under assault. The free press

is under assault. Due process is under

assault. Uh, the right to be in your

home and not be invaded by federal

agents, the Fourth Amendment is under

assault. So, that for me is a problem.

Okay. Well, I'd like to start to say I

really don't find the Constitution that

important. I find it to be like a

300-year-old document. And it was

created to defy the country that

subjugated your ancestors in India. And

then your parents probably moved from

India to Britain. And then you moved

here to tell us that we should listen to

a piece of paper that you were never

even connected to to begin with. So, I

want to say like if I don't care about

it, why do you care about it so much?

How do you run a country without any

kind of laws or due process? And by the

way, you do care about it because

without the First Amendment, you

wouldn't be sitting here.

Well, I agree with the First Amendment

and I think

So, do you agree with Donald Trump's

crackdown on the First Amendment? He's

he's imprisoning people for their

speech. He's crack he's he's threatening

free speech media organizations. He's

threatening peaceable assembly. These

are all rights under the First

Amendment. Why aren't you bothered by

that as a conservative who claims to

love the First Amendment?

So, I actually I don't like the First

Amendment. And I like free speech.

Okay. The first amendment is what

guarantees free speech. I'm from the UK,

by the way. I'm from the UK, which is a

democracy. We don't have the first

amendment. No, that's one of the things

I do like about the constitution. I wish

the UK did have a first amendment. I'm a journalist.

journalist.

People arrested for praying outside

abortion clinics and stuff like that, right?

right?

So So you're you're opposed to people

being arrested for speech crimes. I

It depends what it is. If it's like the people

people

So you're like one of the previous

speakers. You don't As long as it's

someone who agrees with you, you don't

mind the support.

Either we consistently support

principles or

free speech 100%. I don't think anyone.

So, do you think Donald Trump is defying

the Constitution by cracking down on the

First Amendment?

Um, so I think he's cracking down on

free speech like the deportation of

Mahmood Khalil, who's uh

who was just released from prison by a

judge saying his first amendment rights

were violating.

And I and I agree with the judge and I

disagree with Trump deporting them. But

I think that's more a matter of free

speech and not the constitution.

I think that's pedentary at this moment.

I think you've conceded that he is

cracking down on free speech which is

the first amendment. So he is defying

the constitution. So it's pleasure to be

in agreement with you, sir.

All right. Pause. You've been voted out

by the majority. Please return to the

How you sir?

I'm Medi.

Medie. Great to meet you. My name is Kai.

Kai.

Do you believe that the Constitution is

important and good

overall? Yes.

Do you believe that that constitution

can be eroded through democratic processes?

processes?

What do you mean by erode? the original

intention of the Constitution being

destroyed through a purely, you know,

democratic or legal process.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Okay.

Okay.

I think if you're democratically

amending the Constitution per the rules

of the Constitution, that's fine. If we

could find a constitutional way to get

rid of the Second Amendment, I'd be pro that.

that.

So, let's let's pose a hypothetical

where in the entire population of the

United States has drastically changed.

Yes. And the population now um has

completely different intentions about

what to do with the country. Let's say

it wants to give it all back to Mexico,

dismantling the United States of

America. If that's the case, then what's

the use of the Constitution? It hasn't

defended the country. In fact, it's

allowed for its destruction. I don't

understand the premise. How did the

whole country change?

Demographic replacement, mass migration.

I mean, we're we're seeing a change in

demographics. And there there's

What is the

I do want to talk about immigration

today. We talk about everyone's itching

in this group to get immigration. I've

saved it. I've saved it for you all. But

given we're on the sense of the

Constitution and you asked a question,

what is the proportion of immigrants in

this country? um what proportion of the

population is is foreignb born.

It's it's very difficult to measure

because the actual projections of the

number have been changing more rapidly.

What is currently

the best estimate?

I think it was about 15% just under 15%

which is by the way which is more

actually than the original estimate was. So

15% of the people are going to change

the country, change the constitution.

How's that going? It's actually a

nightmare. As someone who wants to amend

the constitution and get rid of things

like the the ridiculous way the senate

is set up or the second amendment on

guns or various other things, it's

really hard to change the constitution.

They made it imposs almost impossible.

You know, the last time we had a

constitutional amendment like 20 30

years ago, it was I think members of

Congress pays.

Where are you getting this scenario

where 350 odd million people all become

foreignb born migrants or the children

of migrants immediate migrants even

though America is a nation of migrants

and then abandon the constitution and

give the country back to Mexico outside

of your imagination where is that

happening let's well let's bring it back

to the actual discussion what you did is

you you entertain my hypothetical but

then instead of sticking to the point of

the constitution you said well how would

you bring about your hypothetical and

then when I

because you missed out the part where

the constitution is quite hard to change

hold on I understand that I gave you I

also wanted to a sense of where you are

and you're a great replacement guy. So

that's fine.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. And you're a real good

journalist because you don't talk to

people who identify as like a political

ideology. I mean that's that's a liberal

I don't debate fascists. I'll talk to them.

them.

Frankly Frankly that's upsetting. I

think there's a big problem when you

know we value freedom of speech so much

but any you know real journalist is not

going to talk to somebody because they

identify with the politically incorrect ideology.

ideology.

Just talk to the guy in front of you.

What are you talking about?

You literally stop talking to him and

then debating versus talking is very different.

different.

It's pointless. He doesn't He doesn't

believe in free speech. He doesn't

believe in democracy.

He was freely speaking with you. You're

the one. No, he said very clearly. He

said, "I support free speech so that I

can get one election. After one

election, my guy comes in and after my

guy comes in, nobody gets to speak or

vote again. Listen to your debate that

we listen to your conversation. Let's

remind you what it was said because you

just back to the Constitution."

Please do. First, fourth, fifth, 14th

amendments. Those are the ones I'm

saying Trump is defying. Do you support

that or do you dy them? I believe that

the constitution is valuable because it

represents particular interests of the

founding stock of Americans who made

this country great.

Do you think due process is important?

Some would say that's at the very core

of American constitution amendment. And

what I think makes the constitution uh

function what allows it to save this

country and to actually make it work are

the people who are

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

this.

Hold on. Hold on. I'll show you the

constitution. That's my claim. You can

have these weird

hypothetical. We're taking it into a

different meta which is what's the

function of the constitution. I'd rather

not have your

You already did. You already did it just

5 minutes ago when you took it to

immigration. Okay, let's bring it back.

I want to bring it back to the first,

the fourth, the fifth, and the 14th

amendments and the 22nd amendments.

Either you say Hold on. You got you got

two very good positions here. One is to

say I don't think he's defying them and

I'll say why you're wrong. Or you say I

don't care that he's defying them as one

of your colleagues said in which case

I don't know where this conversation

goes because you don't believe in democracy.

democracy.

That's fair. Do you think it's wrong to

dismantle the Constitution?

So there are two options ahead of you.

Do you agree? This is important. Do you

agree? So, is Donald Trump okay? Let me

ask a question back since you're asking

me questions. You're not answering the

basic point. Do you think Donald Trump

is dismantling the constitution? Can we

agree that Donald Trump is dismantled?

Because I'll agree with you on that. I

think he is dismantling the

constitution. I think he's illegally

unconstitutionally interpreting it in

ways that are that are more judges do

not agree with him on.

Okay, which the Supreme Court has not

agreed with them on

and and the judges don't agree with the

people who wrote the Constitution.

How do you know that?

Okay, let's take your example of the

Second Amendment. Let's say that a bunch of

I didn't give the Second Amendment. No,

first fourth. You don't want to talk

about the ones I've given.

You're interrupting them. You're

interrupting me. You're ignoring me.

First, fourth, fifth, 14th, 22nd

amendments. Those are my amendments that

I came with today. If you don't want to

debate them, just say so.

I'm trying to understand your ideology.

You believe that dismantling the

constitution is when it's about parts of

the constitution that you would be fine

getting rid of the second amendment even

though that would be a dismantling of

the constitution.

No, because it would be done via

constitutional means. I'm not the one

sitting here like your pal. You have

agreed. You have agreed the

constitution. saying you just get rid of

them willy-nilly. I don't ramping up.

I don't agree that Joe Biden

should come in and say by executive

order, if Joe Biden put out executive

order saying amendment no longer

applies, I can round up everyone's guns.

I don't agree with that.

Your result is exactly

I don't agree with them. No, but I don't

agree with the method of doing it. It's

unconstitutional. He would have been

defying the Constitution and I would

have said so, but you can't bring

yourself to say so. We've been sitting

here for several minutes. All of your

friends have seen me ask you several

times, do you agree that Donald Trump is

defining the first, fourth, fifth, 14th,

and possibly 22nd amendments? You're

you're admitted.

I understand you came in here.

What you are attempting to do is simply

frame this conversation like you did

with the first claim about Donald Trump.

But then when anybody asks you any kind

of question that presses you to the

least degree,

I answered I said I would dispense

constitution, but I would do it

constitutionally, not by executive

order. So, what I'm trying to get to is

to prove to everybody who's watching

that what you care about is not the

Constitution in what it represents or

creates. You care about the Constitution

only in so far as it allows you to

achieve your political worldview. We

agree on that. I care about the

Constitution because I don't think

presidents should be fascist dictators

and violate the Constitution. That's

what I'm saying. And he is I don't think

the president should have the power to

lock you and me up if we write an op-ed

that he doesn't like. I don't think the

president should be able to crack down

on us if you and I decide to go protest

outside his parade. I don't think the

president should be able to deprive you

and I of due process or come into our

homes without a worry. Well,

let's an agreement then.

All right, pause. You've been voted out

agreement. It's good to meet you.

Hey, how are you? I'm Eddie.

Hi, I'm Jessica.

Nice to meet you.

How are you? So Trump is defying the

first, fourth,

fifth, and 14th and maybe the 22nd soon.

Okay. So I want to focus on the first. Okay.

Okay.

And the fifth. Okay.

Okay.

So you say that Trump is defying the

first amendment. Can you give me an example?

example?

Uh for example, he banned the Associated

Press from attending White House events.

A Trump appointed judge said that was

against the First Amendment. He's been

cracking down on media organizations he

doesn't like over their speech. If they

say stuff he doesn't like, he for example,

example,

cracking down how? So for example, he

banned the Associated Press from

attending White House events because

they said it's the Gulf of Mexico.

That's not how it works. They were

already at the White House. He deprived

them for access. So he punished them for

their speech, which is why the press,

which is why a judge he appointed,

Trevor McFaden, said this was contrary

to the first amendment, a Trump

appointed judge. Uh he's called MSNBC

and CNN illegal. Media organizations are

not ipso, but that's free speech. He can

call them whatever they want.

Attacking the media

by the president as the executive.

Yeah, he can say whatever he wants.

That's that's literally the first

amendment. He can say whatever he wants. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But the media can't say what they want.

They they do.

But he's going after them. He's suing

them. He's using lawsuits to crack down

on the press. President have not done

that before.

They used to give him 34 felonies that

Hillary Clinton did.

No media gave him a lawsuit.

No, but people on the Democratic side.

We're not talking about the Democrats.

Okay. So, he can call them whatever he

wants because that's the freedom of

speech. He can even

He's threatened to imprison reporters.

He absolutely.

He wants to imprison. He said reporters

should go to prison for reporting. He

threatened some of them with prison

rape. Right. That is against the first

amendment. Um, he Okay. How is that

against the First Amendment?

You don't think sending reporters to

prison for reporting that he doesn't

lie? Did he do that?

He wanted to. He said so. I would like

them to.

I would really like to.

So people other people stopped him

doesn't mean he's not defying the

Constitution. He also said if you turn up,

up,

excuse me, he can want to do something.

That doesn't mean he will or he can. And

I think he's very

Well, I've already given an example of

something he did do to the Associated

Press, but Okay.

Yeah. Okay. So, the Associated Press and

allowed in the Oval Office, which is his

office, that's his executive space.

Okay. And they are allowed in the press

room just like CNN, just like the Guardian,

Guardian,

which he thinks are illegal media organizations.

organizations.

He can think he calls the media the

enemies of the people.

You called him a fascist. Yeah,

Yeah,

you can say whatever you want.

But the president is I'm not the I'm not

the president of United States with the

executive power to crack down on the media.

media.

Only applies to the citizens, but not

the president.

I never said that. In fact, Donald Trump

runs his mouth more than anyone.

Absolutely he does.

And he doesn't just say stuff. As I

said, he actually does stuff. He

actually does crack down. For example,

you fifth amendment. Yes.

Due process. Yes.

Yes.

Judges have actually said you have

violated due process.

Yes. Except for except for people kind

of forget the Clinton the 1996

um immigration reform act where you can

you can get limited due process when you

have expedited

American citizens. No.

No.

What about American citizens?

Who's getting deported? That's American.

Two American children have been deported

multiple this year. Have you not?

Oh, no. No, no. Their parents have been

deported and their parents say the

father was my baby. No. Was mom legal?

We don't know because they didn't they

didn't go to court. And the judge I have

to go to court. That's not a part of the

due process.

Are you a lawyer?

I'm very aware of it. Are you a lawyer?

Do I have to be? Oh. Oh. We're making an

argument from We're making

It's a simple question. Are you a lawyer?

lawyer?

Okay. We're making an argument.

I'll take that as a no. A Trumpappointed judge

judge

in the case, not some Marxist lefty

judge as you people like to call them. A

Trumpapp appointed conservative judge

said you cannot, it is illegal and

unconstitutional to expel or deport an

American citizen without meaningful

process. He said that in April.

So that was an act that Trump did. It

wasn't speech. He got rid of an American citizen

citizen

from the country without process. That's

the fifth amendment violation.

Since I'm not up to date on that

specific, I'm sure you can. So

well, you weren't aware that American

citizens are being deported. It's a

pretty big story. Maybe if you read the

fake news, you might know.

What? If you read the fake news, you

might know what's going on. A lot of

American citizens.

How would I know what's going on if I

read fake news? I don't watch CNN or

Rachel Matto. Sorry.

That's why you don't know that your

fellow citizens have been deported this year.

year.

My fellow citizens.

Are they not American citizens have been deported?

deported?

Okay. When a child goes with their

All right, guys. That's time. Please

return to your seat. Nice to meet you.

Hey, before we go any further, we want

to take a moment to say thanks so much

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us on this episode. Now, let's get into

it. My next claim is that immigrants

Oh no, you beat me.

Hi, how are you?

Hello, nice to meet you.

Um, so in regards to your claim, I just

want to start by asking this. Do you

care more about helping Americans or

immigrants in this in this claim?

Immigrants are Americans. I'm an

immigrant and an American.

Well, immigrants are not Americans.

Americans are the people that were born here.

here.

That's not true. Where' you get what's

the basis of your claim for that? Are

you talking about people that get

naturalized in the process of becoming American?

American?

14th amendment. Have you read it?

Okay. Yes, I have.

Citizenship clause. It says any persons

born or naturalized in the United States

are citizens of the United States.

I'm aware of that.

There's about 40 to 50 million

naturalized Americans in this country.

Yes. But

you didn't seem aware of it because you

said Americans versus immigrants.

So, but are you understanding that the

process of um getting all these

immigrants that come in here for we've

been also the millions of immigrants.

It's up to the millions. is the last 20

years now and it has dramatically

affected Americans here in the country which

which

positively I would argue

people like me and everyone around here

we cannot find homes or even get jobs

within our own fields that we go to

college for that we get into debt for um

and because um more bluecollar work

especially in construction um

agriculture and so forth and the

hospitality industry we cannot get jobs

in those fields so it requires

are you looking for a job in construction

construction

no I went to college many people here

are in college or went to college or we

can't even find jobs in our fields also

because of the H1B visa program as well.

But in regards of just your claim about

immigrants specifically, we cannot even

get jobs to pay for housing.

Unemployment is at a record low right

now, even under Donald Trump, and I'm

not a Donald Trump fan, but I would say

unemployment under both Biden and Trump

has been at record low levels.

Okay. Is this in regards for American citizens?

citizens? Yes.

Yes.

Okay. Okay. Um well, I'm unaware of that

statistic, but from what I see, u from

I'm an immigrant and an American, and I

employ many American citizens, both

naturalized and the ones born here. I

employ my parents. No, my parents came

Americans as defined by you.

My parents came as immigrants to become

naturalized. So I'm not necessarily

opposed to immigrants.

So you're the child of immigrants.

Correct. I'm a child of immigrants. I

was born.

But you don't accept that immigrants are Americans.

Americans.

Not at this moment. So your parents are

not Americans.

Not at this moment. Hold on. Your

parents are citizens. They became naturalized.

naturalized.

You just said you can't be citizens by

being naturalized.

No, I was born here. And I'm not opposed

to naturalization. I'm against

naturalization. Are

your Are you against naturalization?

No, I never said I was against naturalization.

naturalization.

You began You're very Everyone was here.

They can they can play it back on

YouTube. You said im Americans or

immigrants. Are your parents Americans

or immigrants?

No, my parents are are United States citizens.

citizens.

But they are immigrants. You said

no. They came here as immigrants.

However, behind the claim that we came I

came here as an immigrant. I'm an

immigrant at this point. When they came

the happy with the way this is going for you.

you.

The United States economy was not at um

it's better now. The American economy is

is better than it's been for many years.

I can say that as someone who doesn't

like Donald Trump. What statistics are

you saying?

Billions of dollars of minority of

minorities as well as um

the reason the economy is doing badly

now because Donald Trump's tariff policy

has nothing to do with migrants. In

fact, the congressional start businesses

I'm an immigrant. I started a business.

In fact, I understand because the

government is giving people billions. I

didn't take any loans. I didn't take any

loans. I'm not saying you did, but I'm

saying statistically speaking, they're

giving billions of loans.

So, should we do statistics? According

to statistics, immigrants are 80% more

likely to be entrepreneurs than native

born Americans are more likely to start

businesses. and hire Americans, right?

Immigrants are more likely to pay in

taxes than take out in benefits. They're

more likely to add to innovation and

jobs and wages. This is what the

statistics show. The Congressional

Budget Office, let me just finish my

point and let you come back in. The

Congressional Budget Office, which is

bipartisan, Republicans and Democrats

both use it.

They have said that the immigration

surge that you mentioned

will lead to an extra $9 trillion of GDP

over the next 10 years. That amounts to

$65,000 per American household. That's

$65,000 for each and every one of you

holding up a red flag.

Okay, I understand.

All right, pause. You've been voted out

by the majority. Please return to your seat.

seat.

Nice to meet you.

Hey, how's it going? I'm Eddie.

What's going on, man? Nice to meet you.

All right, so first before I start, I

need to know what you mean by good. I

can talk about the economy. I can talk

about culture. I can talk about all

those things. I need to know what you mean.

mean.

All of them. I'm I'm saying immigrants

are good for the economy. They're good

for wages are the econom society.

Where's the lower wages?

What do you mean where's the lower wages?

wages?

Where are the low wages? What's the

basis for saying there are lower wages?

Sure. So, you can look at like the STEM

industry. It's been in like a complete

and total recession. Uh there's been

tons of studies like from the Economic

Policy Institute that shows that like uh

companies like Tesla, uh companies from

like Silicon Valley. They engaged in

mass firing of workers around 35,000,

but then they hired around 12,000 H1B

visas. And it's kind of just like just

standard economic thinking. If you

It's not standard economic thinking. The

vast majority of economists and economic

studies suggest that there is a

negligible if if no impact on wages over

time from immigrants. In fact, your

colleague mentioned earlier construction

there is actually evidence in

construction. Yes. But in some

industries, in some areas there is an

impact, but overall no. In fact, an a

study from the National Bureau of

Economic Research found that migrants

since 1965 have raised wages and raised

innovation. National Bureau of Economic Research.

Research.

No, that No, hold on. That's where you

publish studies. I'm actually

I didn't memorize the names of the

authors. I know you did. Right.

You give me the authors. You've got

Yeah, hold on. The study you're talking

about is from Giovanni Perry and what he

did is he didn't account for aggregation

issues nor did he

the vast majority of studies

let me speak please yeah thank you right

so listen he didn't account for

aggregation issues right and when you

look at like the spatial approach was

what all these economists use you're not

accounting for the fact that when

immigrants come into an area natives

leave if you look at an occupational

approach where you look at look at the

specific firms that immigration's going

into like Kim ETA 2013 did you find a

net negative impact when there's a 10%

increase of immigration you find around

a.5% decline in wages when it comes to

specific occupations they're going to.

So all your studies are

so so 5% weigh that up against what I

just mentioned from the Congressional

Budget Office which is a massive boost

in GDP per head which you're not

counting for massive increase in tax

revenue. Immigrants actually funding

funding the deficits and debts by paying

way more in taxes proportionately

including undocumented. And what's

interesting about wages is I'm in a room

full of I don't know what to call you

anymore. Conservatives, Republicans,

fascists, I don't know. Uh one of you is

proudly said that correct. One of us

proudly Oh yeah, correct. I'm in a room

full of correct people, but do any of

you actually care about wages? Because

for example, do you support raising the

minimum wage?

Absolutely. And you can't do that when

you're bringing all these people coming in.

in.

That's not the reason the Republican

party blocks the better wage. You think

Republican politicians don't vote for an

increase in minimum wage because they're

worried about immigration Republicans?

Did I say vote Republicans?

Well, I'm going to show that was called

25 farright Republicans. Doesn't mean

I'm going to support every single

Republican candidate.

So, you and I good. So, you and I, you

and I, let's agree. We both support

raising the minimum wage. % $725 since

2009. It's lost 30% of its value. If you

care about wages, we should be raising

the minimum wage in this country. Not

scapegoating migrants who aren't the

cause of low wage in the country. You

know who's causing low wages?

Billionaires, millionaires, people who

won't pay fair wages to their wages

regardless of whether you are an

immigrant or a nation.

Get the monologue right now. Let me respond.

respond.

You had one. You had one study that had

a.5% impact. Go.

Yeah. And your study like sucked that

you didn't even know who wrote it,

right? So, like let's get back to the

point because I don't need it again. Yeah.

Yeah.

The majority of studies say that wages

are not impacted by

the majority of your studies are flawed.

That's what I'm telling you.

My studies, neither of us are

economists. It's the economist.

Don't assume who I am.

Are you economist?

I could be.

But are you?

I could be.

Are you?

I'm not going to tell you.

Are you?

Uh, I'm going to major in economics, right?

right?

Are you an economist?

Uh, no. Not right now.

Okay. So, when I said neither is

economist, I was correct to use your

favorite word.

See here, dude. This is nothing of

substance. Look at the red flags.

They're coming up. Let me get to the

point. So when you talk about the when

you talk about the CBO, one thing you're

not accounting for here is that they're

assuming an equilibrium, right? Do you

know what that means? You shouldn't make

these type of assumptions. You said

earlier that unemployment

I know what it means. I thought we were

not doing assumptions.

Okay, hold on. You mentioned we were

like at like 4.2 percentage

unemployment. Yeah, that's counting

people who have part-time jobs. That's

counting poverty wages. Yeah,

I'm against poverty wages. We agree again.

again.

Yes. If you look if you go to like the

Lwood Institute, they calculated a way

where it's like functional unemployment.

Okay. If you account for things like

just people who make around $25,000 a

year, people who have fallen out of the

labor market, people who only work

part-time, if you put if you count all

of those people together and then add on

the unemployment, that's around 25% of

the population. So when you go, we don't

have jobs. We don't have people to do

this, this, and that, and the other. No.

Yes, we do. Okay? We don't have a labor

shortage. We have a good job shortage.

And when you keep bringing these people

in and they're taking those jobs, the

good job shortage is the fault of big

firms, employees. I'm an employee. I can

say that.

Who hires the immigrants?

Who hires the immigrants? Yeah. Employers.

Employers.

Exactly. So when you bring up these big

firms, let me ask you question, right?

So let me ask you a question. If you got

rid of all immigrants coming in

tomorrow, moratorium, you think that you

think that Republicans and uh employers

of big firms would suddenly raise all

the wages. What I said, you know, it was

a complete pit of your ankles. You

pivoted the hell conversation. Is that

what you do? You believe that wages I'm

just wondering how naive you are.

believe that the 1% will raise wages and

the federal wage stop immigration. They

will be forced to when you increase

labor's relationship to capital. Okay.

And you give labor more bargaining power

because you're tightening understanding

of economics because you're explain I'm wrong.

wrong.

I'm tell you how you're wrong because

you're ignoring the fact that when

immigrants come into an area they spend

money. They create jobs

of their monthly income leaves.

They spend they that's a good thing also

because you don't like US aid foreign

aid. So this is the point. They create

jobs into this country. So far, every

one of my assumptions about you has been

correct. But listen to me. I am an

immigrant. I'm speaking from personal

experience. I don't even like

I should get the hell out. Why?

I don't want you here. Why? Cuz you come

here and say all this [ __ ] about how

Americans are lazy. You push your left.

I never said Americans are lazy.

I don't know why you say this.

I never said Americans are lazy.

You come to this country so they can do

jobs that we don't want to do. When did

I say when did I say it? YouTube. Guys

watching on YouTube, rewind to the time

where I said immigrants are doing jobs

we don't want to do. When did I say

those words? Words never came out of my mouth.

mouth.

Why do we have to bring in immigrants?

Why do we have to bring in immigrants to

the country if we have people who are

going to do the jobs?

Pause. Pause. You've been voted out.

It's nice talking to you.

Nice talking to you.

You're going to have to go.

Nice talking to you.

You're going to have to go, bro. Is what

he said as I left to an American

citizen. Good. Good to know where you

stand on immigration. It's not about

immigration, is it? That's what it's not about.

Hey, how you doing?

Nice to meet you.

Good to see you. How are you?

Not bad. So what type of immigrants are

we talking about?

What do you mean?

Like any immigrants or are that's why I

said immigrants

illegal immigrants.

Undocumented immigrants also contribute

greatly to the US. I I say undocumented.

I don't think people are illegal.

So let's put it this way. I mean I'm an

immigrant too from Iran. Okay.

Okay.

There isn't even a US.

How do you feel about the fact that

people here want you out?

Are you okay with that?

I'm here to debate you, not debate them.

I mean you're all on the same side.

You're part of one group. No,

you've been clapping each other. No, I

mean there are conservatives here. There

are far right people here. There are

Republicans here.

How do you feel about that guy wanting

me and you to leave?

But you know, let's I'm just wondering

this is the topic of immigration.

It's not about my feelings towards them.

It's about staying on this topic.

Immigrants are good for America. Yeah.

You and me, we're good for America

and the guy over there wants us to

leave. So I'm just wondering how you

feel about that.

So I believe that there has to be strict

immigration laws. We have to make sure

that the people are coming here have the

good intent of the United States in

mind. That's not my claim, but okay. So,

my claim is about immigrants are net positive.

positive.

If you just open our borders to every

single person that wants to be here, you

know, that that claims that they have

economical hardship in their country.

Who's calling for open borders? No,

I'm I'm just saying, you know,

I mean, it's a straw man. So, you're

just saying a straw man.

No, I'm I'm saying

you're wasting time with the straw man.

No one's calling for open borders. I

didn't call for you. I said immigrants. Who

Who

you wasted time trying to cause division

between me and my

division? He wants you to leave the

country. That's a pretty big deal.

I mean, you can ignore it, but that's

your side, my Like I said, you were the

one that tried to derail this argument.

But by bringing that

it's to my argument. I'm saying

immigrants are good to America. People

on your side are saying we should leave.

Not me. And I asked you what type of

immigrants are we talking about? Are we talking

talking

immigrants overall?

Overall overall. So

I mean you want to get into you want me

to get into like particular communities.

I'm not I'm not playing that game.

So you believe that people that come

here without help society without any

respect to our laws

and our border,

you know, are going to be good for this country?

country?

No, of course not. So you can't say that

all immigrants overall.

I never said all immigrants. I said

immigrants overall. Immigrants overall

doesn't mean all immigrants. Sorry to

break that to you.

All right. So So we have to make sure

that the people are coming here

have the good intent of this country in

mind. Agreed. I agreed.

Yes. Irrelevant to my claim.

But when you have undocumented

immigration going on, you can't vet

that. You can't make sure about that.

Let me real quick, you know, talk about,

you know, my background. There is no

Iran American embassy in Iran. So to in

order to come here, you have to stay in

line for four years and you have to go

through some some serious vetting

procedure to get here. But I made it and

that that process has to be in place

because I mean you don't want terrorists.

terrorists.

I made it too. I'm an American citizen.

I went through lots of vetting. I took

my test

and that's how there wants us to leave.

But but

but he wants us to leave. So people

don't really care about vetting, do

they? It's not really about vetting, is

it, my friends?

People should not have the right people

should not have the right to ignore our

borders and our laws. What about those

of who don't ignore the borders? Should

we get to stay?

Of course. I mean,

and he says we shouldn't.

Well, I'm not debating him.

You We kind of You kind of are because

you're all together on this.

No, I'm debating you.

Okay. And I'm pointing out to you that

your argument is in bad faith cuz these

guys are actually speaking the truth and

you're in denial about who's on your

side. He wants you gone.

I I I never claim that I'm on their side

or they're on my side. I'm here to

debate you.

All right. Pause. You've been voted out

by the majority. Please return to Nice

Hey, how you doing? I'm Eddie. Edward,

nice. Nice to meet you.

The question is, immigration is good for

America, right?

Overall, if you look at the net

positives to things like our society,

our culture, our food, our economy, our

general diversity. I know the dword is a

bad word. In places like this, I think

immigrants have been a net positive. I

think if you look at your everyday

lives, we all benefit from immigration.

And what kind of conservatives disagree

with that?

some of the some of the guys who told me

to leave this place and go back to, you

know, not I'm not a citizen.

Do you think all conservatives? No.

No. Oh,

Oh,

no. In fact, Ronald Reagan, who is a

president I wasn't a big fan of until

Donald Trump came along. Now, people

like Reagan look good in comparison.

Reagan said in 1986, "Our country is a

nation of immigrants. Our immigrant

heritage is our strength." He gave an

amnesty to 3 million undocumented

migrants. He understood the value of

immigration. So, I'm with Reagan.

Although, this guy is putting his thumb

down there. So, Reagan's not popular in

right-wing crowds these days.

Yeah. Well, he's popular with me. good too.

too.

Uh I'm a deferred action of childhood

arrivals. I'm actually I was an illegal

immigrant myself. I came here when I was

10. I'm what you would call a legal

Elliot now. I didn't have any any say on

my parents, you know, choices. Yes.

Yes.

Do I think that they were well-meaning

by wanting to bring me over for a better

future? Absolutely. I believe that. Yeah.

Yeah.

Did they break the law? Yes. Do I agree

with people breaking the law?

Not necessarily.

Do I think that there's ever a situation

where you can break the law for the

better or the greater good? You know, it

immigration is a it's an interesting

issue because I do agree with you that

good to hear.

Can you tell me a little bit more about your journey?

your journey? I've been here 10 years. I'm a proud

I've been here 10 years. I'm a proud American citizen. I'm a dual national.

American citizen. I'm a dual national. I'm British. I'm American. And I I am an

I'm British. I'm American. And I I am an immigrant who's contributing to this

immigrant who's contributing to this country. So yes, uh I'm very much proud

country. So yes, uh I'm very much proud of America's immigrant heritage. I'm

of America's immigrant heritage. I'm part of it. And despite what uh one of

part of it. And despite what uh one of the other people said on this show

the other people said on this show earlier, yeah, everyone here, unless

earlier, yeah, everyone here, unless you're Native American, representative

you're Native American, representative of immigrants.

of immigrants. Sorry, you've been voted out. Please

Sorry, you've been voted out. Please return to your seat.

return to your seat. Thank you, man. Nice to meet you.

How's it going? Hey, how's it going?

Hey, how's it going? Actually a fan. I see you a lot on

Actually a fan. I see you a lot on Pierce Morgan.

Pierce Morgan. Okay. Thank you for watching.

Okay. Thank you for watching. Yeah. So, um my argument so is that uh

Yeah. So, um my argument so is that uh Americans are what like what is a

Americans are what like what is a nation? A nation is a geographical

nation? A nation is a geographical location full of people who have some

location full of people who have some things in common. So, I think some of

things in common. So, I think some of the things typically in history are

the things typically in history are going to be like race, religion,

going to be like race, religion, ethnicity, um language. These are some

ethnicity, um language. These are some of the things that we have to have um in

of the things that we have to have um in common in order to actually have a

common in order to actually have a functioning civilization, especially in

functioning civilization, especially in self-government. I'm not necessarily a

self-government. I'm not necessarily a giant fan of self-government. I'm a

giant fan of self-government. I'm a Catholic nationalist. I'm not a fascist.

Catholic nationalist. I'm not a fascist. You have to have at least some things in

You have to have at least some things in common in order to actually have a

common in order to actually have a civilization. And the immigrants,

civilization. And the immigrants, especially illegal immigrants that come

especially illegal immigrants that come into this country now, uh, disrespect

into this country now, uh, disrespect us. They hate everything that we

us. They hate everything that we believe. They don't even speak our

believe. They don't even speak our language. I watched, after Trump got

language. I watched, after Trump got elected, I watched an interview of an

elected, I watched an interview of an illegal alien woman crying and about

illegal alien woman crying and about getting deported. And the entire

getting deported. And the entire interview was in Spanish. That is a spit

interview was in Spanish. That is a spit in the face. It's disrespect. They don't

in the face. It's disrespect. They don't care about us. They abuse our system.

care about us. They abuse our system. And teological argument into just a

And teological argument into just a bunch of series of wild unsubstantiated

bunch of series of wild unsubstantiated claims asking you what is

claims asking you what is I don't accept any of those claims that

I don't accept any of those claims that they hate everything we stand for and I

they hate everything we stand for and I don't accept well I'm not going to deal

don't accept well I'm not going to deal with your tell I'm going to deal with

with your tell I'm going to deal with the false claims that you made there's

the false claims that you made there's no b what's your basis for saying that

no b what's your basis for saying that all immigrants or all undocumented

all immigrants or all undocumented immigrants hate everything we stand for

immigrants hate everything we stand for it's funny that you said you're a

it's funny that you said you're a Catholic national how did most Catholics

Catholic national how did most Catholics get to America Irish Catholics Italian

get to America Irish Catholics Italian Catholics immigration much of the people

Catholics immigration much of the people coming across the southern border are

coming across the southern border are Catholics are Catholics so it's really

Catholics are Catholics so it's really funny that you say you're a Catholic

funny that you say you're a Catholic But Catholics came to America via

But Catholics came to America via immigration.

immigration. Yeah. So,

Yeah. So, so immigration is good for America. You

so immigration is good for America. You and I can agree. Otherwise, people of

and I can agree. Otherwise, people of your faith wouldn't be here.

your faith wouldn't be here. No. Well, we we were here on this side

No. Well, we we were here on this side of the on this side of the world in this

of the on this side of the world in this continent from conquest. We came over

continent from conquest. We came over here and

here and but the big surges of numbers as you

but the big surges of numbers as you well know cuz you're a smart guy.

well know cuz you're a smart guy. Italian Irish immigration waves,

Italian Irish immigration waves, Catholic immigration waves.

Catholic immigration waves. Okay. Yeah. And I'm not even against

Okay. Yeah. And I'm not even against those. I'm not even Were you against

those. I'm not even Were you against those if you were alive?

those if you were alive? I'm not even claiming that a lot of

I'm not even claiming that a lot of people were against those.

people were against those. I'm not claiming immigration is bad in

I'm not claiming immigration is bad in all cases at all times. What is your

all cases at all times. What is your claim?

claim? My claim is that immigration especially

My claim is that immigration especially now and especially for foreign people

now and especially for foreign people that have nothing in common with us.

that have nothing in common with us. It's funny you say it's especially now

It's funny you say it's especially now I've forgotten your name. My apologies.

I've forgotten your name. My apologies. Brian in every in every era there has

Brian in every in every era there has been a Brian who says I'm not against

been a Brian who says I'm not against immigration. Now this is what people

immigration. Now this is what people said about Italians. This is what people

said about Italians. This is what people said about Irish folks said about

said about Irish folks said about Russians Poles and now we're saying

Russians Poles and now we're saying about people coming across the southern

about people coming across the southern border because you're not being uh

border because you're not being uh you're being a little disingenuous

you're being a little disingenuous saying I'm only against immigrants. Now,

saying I'm only against immigrants. Now, this is a trope disingenuous because

this is a trope disingenuous because it's a trope that's been used by nivists

it's a trope that's been used by nivists throughout American history. And every

throughout American history. And every wave of immigrants has come in and faced

wave of immigrants has come in and faced the same hate and animus and bigotry and

the same hate and animus and bigotry and lazy tro. And every wave of immigration

lazy tro. And every wave of immigration is ultimately assimilated, integrated,

is ultimately assimilated, integrated, benefited the country. In fact,

benefited the country. In fact, assimilation right now, according to

assimilation right now, according to Jacob Victor from the University of

Jacob Victor from the University of Washington, assimilation rates based on

Washington, assimilation rates based on language and citizenship and

language and citizenship and naturalization are higher now than 100

naturalization are higher now than 100 years ago.

years ago. Okay, let me make a statement first. I

Okay, let me make a statement first. I think that you and your own ignored my

think that you and your own ignored my statement you and your you and your own

statement you and your you and your own person are a complete perfect example of

person are a complete perfect example of why immigration is negative and why we

why immigration is negative and why we shouldn't allow people who don't have

shouldn't allow people who don't have anything in common with us. You're pro

anything in common with us. You're pro abortion. You're pro you euthanasia.

abortion. You're pro you euthanasia. You're pro

You're pro I'm pro euthania.

I'm pro euthania. Yeah. You went I've I've seen your

Yeah. You went I've I've seen your stuff. You you you've defended euthania.

stuff. You you you've defended euthania. Pro euthanasia.

Pro euthanasia. Yeah. On Pierce Morgan.

Yeah. On Pierce Morgan. No, I've never discussed euthanasia with

No, I've never discussed euthanasia with Pierce.

Pierce. Okay. So my point is that you don't

Okay. So my point is that you don't agree with the guy in this country. If

agree with the guy in this country. If anyone watching at home, I'm the only

anyone watching at home, I'm the only guy here who actually supports American

guy here who actually supports American values, democracy, free speech, the

values, democracy, free speech, the Constitution. I've got folks here

Constitution. I've got folks here telling me they don't believe in

telling me they don't believe in democracy, but they're nationalist.

democracy, but they're nationalist. Wait, why should we why should we care

Wait, why should we why should we care about that, by the way?

about that, by the way? Isn't that what America stands for? What

Isn't that what America stands for? What does America stand for? So, you hate

does America stand for? So, you hate what America stands for? Not me. And in

what America stands for? Not me. And in fact, all the studies show that im

fact, all the studies show that im immigrants actually are more patriotic.

immigrants actually are more patriotic. The only reason Americans the only

The only reason Americans the only reason the only reason why Yeah, that's

reason the only reason why Yeah, that's the the Mexicans in LA right now burning

the the Mexicans in LA right now burning it down. Waving Mexican flags being

it down. Waving Mexican flags being burned down. Please don't send us back

burned down. Please don't send us back to the country that we're waving flag.

to the country that we're waving flag. I've been in LA for a few days. I didn't

I've been in LA for a few days. I didn't see anything burned down.

see anything burned down. Yeah, I know. The the riots have ended.

Yeah, I know. The the riots have ended. That's cuz Trump sent

That's cuz Trump sent But if it's burned down, where's it all

But if it's burned down, where's it all burned down? I haven't seen it. I've

burned down? I haven't seen it. I've traveled around all of LA. You said LA

traveled around all of LA. You said LA was burned down. LA is 500 square miles.

was burned down. LA is 500 square miles. It's not a fre. It's another false

It's not a fre. It's another false burning. No, no, they're burn.

burning. No, no, they're burn. I support youth in Asia. LA's burned to

I support youth in Asia. LA's burned to the ground. Immigrants hate what we

the ground. Immigrants hate what we stand for. Okay. So, I'm super prot.

stand for. Okay. So, I'm super prot. So, you're pro you're probing my

So, you're pro you're probing my position. Immigrants are good for you.

position. Immigrants are good for you. You're pro abortion. You're an

You're pro abortion. You're an immigrant.

immigrant. I'm pro Roie Wade. Personally, I'm not

I'm pro Roie Wade. Personally, I'm not pro abortion if you knew anything about

pro abortion if you knew anything about me.

me. Uh Roie Wade is

Uh Roie Wade is all right. Pause. You've been voted out.

all right. Pause. You've been voted out. I was going to say nice to meet you,

I was going to say nice to meet you, Brian, but I guess not.

You made it. Great to see you. My name is Cyrus.

Great to see you. My name is Cyrus. Nice to meet you, Cy.

Nice to meet you, Cy. I am also son of two immigrants. Came in

I am also son of two immigrants. Came in legally. I'm also Persian descent.

legally. I'm also Persian descent. Fantastic.

Fantastic. Born in LA.

Born in LA. Fantastic. Teranelis.

Fantastic. Teranelis. Yes. Yes. Well, I am mainly upset not at

Yes. Yes. Well, I am mainly upset not at the immigrants, legal or not. I'm mainly

the immigrants, legal or not. I'm mainly upset at Wall Street. I'm mainly upset

upset at Wall Street. I'm mainly upset at the elites, the special interests.

at the elites, the special interests. They are the main reason why we've been

They are the main reason why we've been having this issue since 1965.

having this issue since 1965. And I most want to do well. There are a

And I most want to do well. There are a few bad apples. We can agree, but we

few bad apples. We can agree, but we want to go after the elites. They are

want to go after the elites. They are the main cause of the problem. And just

the main cause of the problem. And just like healthcare, trade, everything.

like healthcare, trade, everything. Did you know, Cyrus, that the top 1% pay

Did you know, Cyrus, that the top 1% pay dodge $163 billion in taxes every year,

dodge $163 billion in taxes every year, while undocumented people pay hundred

while undocumented people pay hundred billion in tax? So, I know where my

billion in tax? So, I know where my anger is against.

anger is against. There there are issues with our tax

There there are issues with our tax system on the rich. But in a state like

system on the rich. But in a state like California, some taxes are too high. I

California, some taxes are too high. I used to live here now in Las Vegas.

used to live here now in Las Vegas. Different debate. I'm saying immigration

Different debate. I'm saying immigration is good for America. People like you and

is good for America. People like you and me overall are good for America is what

me overall are good for America is what I'm saying.

I'm saying. Okay. But it depends on how it's done.

Okay. But it depends on how it's done. Yes.

Yes. It depends on how it's done. how it's

It depends on how it's done. how it's being done to the US.

being done to the US. I'm not blaming the housing crisis on

I'm not blaming the housing crisis on immigrants, not on wages. But in a state

immigrants, not on wages. But in a state like California that doesn't build

like California that doesn't build enough homes and they're bringing

enough homes and they're bringing immigrants in, you have to increase

immigrants in, you have to increase supply of housing. Okay? But this is

supply of housing. Okay? But this is where our anger is at is at the

where our anger is at is at the political class. The Democrat party used

political class. The Democrat party used to have a different stance on

to have a different stance on immigration 15 years ago. Bernie

immigration 15 years ago. Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton.

Sanders, Hillary Clinton. I'm not a fan of I'm not here to defend

I'm not a fan of I'm not here to defend different Democrats. What I will say is

different Democrats. What I will say is our angle.

our angle. What I will say is that everyone here

What I will say is that everyone here actually does think immigration is good

actually does think immigration is good for America. Everyone here uses an

for America. Everyone here uses an iPhone designed by an immigrant is on

iPhone designed by an immigrant is on Gmail designed by an immigrant is uh

Gmail designed by an immigrant is uh watch is on a YouTube show. We all came

watch is on a YouTube show. We all came to a YouTube show founded by an

to a YouTube show founded by an immigrant. You wouldn't but that's a

immigrant. You wouldn't but that's a tiny minority.

tiny minority. So you all love immigrants whether you

So you all love immigrants whether you like it or not.

like it or not. Okay. But it's a taboo subject. Should

Okay. But it's a taboo subject. Should we be concerned about the demographic?

we be concerned about the demographic? So no

So no Anglo-Saxon European-American 0% of

Anglo-Saxon European-American 0% of America. It doesn't matter. Are they 0%

America. It doesn't matter. Are they 0% of America?

of America? Well, let's say if it becomes 0%. It

Well, let's say if it becomes 0%. It should not work.

should not work. They're not going. Why are you bringing

They're not going. Why are you bringing weird hypotheticals?

weird hypotheticals? Well, but there has But I mean, they're

Well, but there has But I mean, they're still part of our country. There's

still part of our country. There's culture. There's I mean, even Britain

culture. There's I mean, even Britain like concerns, but it concerns me when

like concerns, but it concerns me when Britain is changing and it's, you know,

Britain is changing and it's, you know, it's like they're losing their culture,

it's like they're losing their culture, but it's losing their culture. Are they?

but it's losing their culture. Are they? Are they going to try to

Are they going to try to UK? I'm telling you, no one's losing

UK? I'm telling you, no one's losing their culture.

their culture. London is going to be very little

London is going to be very little British in one day.

British in one day. What's the plan? That's what we want to

What's the plan? That's what we want to know. What's the plan?

know. What's the plan? You just made that up. Have you been to

You just made that up. Have you been to London? How do we know?

London? How do we know? Cyrus, have you been to London?

Cyrus, have you been to London? So then maybe you shouldn't come on

So then maybe you shouldn't come on places you don't know anything about.

places you don't know anything about. But what's the plan?

But what's the plan? I grew up in London. London is a very

I grew up in London. London is a very British city. I was in London a few

British city. I was in London a few weeks ago. It's a very British city.

weeks ago. It's a very British city. I hope not. I understand that there are

I hope not. I understand that there are people in this audience that don't like

people in this audience that don't like me or you in this country and I respect

me or you in this country and I respect that. There's some that don't even want

that. There's some that don't even want me to date a blonde woman. They want to

me to date a blonde woman. They want to keep to their own or ginger or whatever.

keep to their own or ginger or whatever. I respect that. But there has to be a

I respect that. But there has to be a deal made. There's Idaho. There's

deal made. There's Idaho. There's Montana. they can go live in a

Montana. they can go live in a homogeneous society. I don't believe in

homogeneous society. I don't believe in force. Okay? And I believe that there

force. Okay? And I believe that there has to be a deal made and I think

has to be a deal made and I think there's upsides and downsides to

there's upsides and downsides to diversity.

diversity. There's a deal made. People have

There's a deal made. People have elections. They vote for elections. And

elections. They vote for elections. And right now there's Donald Trump in the

right now there's Donald Trump in the White House. Not someone I support, but

White House. Not someone I support, but people voted for him.

people voted for him. Well, why did he get in? Mainly because

Well, why did he get in? Mainly because I'm not sure we have time. 2016.

I'm not sure we have time. 2016. Okay.

Okay. Part of the reason he got in is that

Part of the reason he got in is that people in this room want people like me

people in this room want people like me and you to leave and they voted for him

and you to leave and they voted for him to try and make that happen.

to try and make that happen. I'm not surprised. One of the

I'm not surprised. One of the Charlottesville marchers doesn't like me

Charlottesville marchers doesn't like me and I've met those people and I respect

and I've met those people and I respect their views.

their views. You really shouldn't.

You really shouldn't. Well, their wants.

Well, their wants. Don't respect racists and fascists is my

Don't respect racists and fascists is my advice to you.

advice to you. Well, they have their preferences. You

Well, they have their preferences. You know, that's just we can't change that.

know, that's just we can't change that. Actually, we can. Why I tried to come in

Actually, we can. Why I tried to come in today, but anyways.

today, but anyways. All right, that's time. Please return to

All right, that's time. Please return to your seat.

your seat. Thank you. Nice to meet you.

Thank you. Nice to meet you. Pleasure. Good.

Pleasure. Good. My final claim is that Donald Trump's

My final claim is that Donald Trump's plan for Gaza is ethnic cleansing.

Hey Sarah, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you. You too. So why why do you say this is

You too. So why why do you say this is Donald Trump's plan? Why do you think

Donald Trump's plan? Why do you think that?

that? I mean, he says it's his plan.

I mean, he says it's his plan. Have you seen his plan?

Have you seen his plan? When did he say it?

When did he say it? He said it standing next to Benjamin

He said it standing next to Benjamin Netanyahu in January, February. He said

Netanyahu in January, February. He said it on Fox News in an interview uh on

it on Fox News in an interview uh on Fox. He said it on Air Force One when he

Fox. He said it on Air Force One when he was chatting to reporters.

was chatting to reporters. Word like word for word. What's an

Word like word for word. What's an example of what he said?

example of what he said? Uh word for word, he said, for example,

Uh word for word, he said, for example, we're going to clean out the Gaza Strip.

we're going to clean out the Gaza Strip. He said they're going to leave. We're

He said they're going to leave. We're going to take control of it. He says,

going to take control of it. He says, uh, we'll own it. I would own it. He

uh, we'll own it. I would own it. He says, I'm not sure under international

says, I'm not sure under international law how he can own a foreign piece of

law how he can own a foreign piece of land. And when he was asked on Fox News,

land. And when he was asked on Fox News, uh, the people, the Palestinians who are

uh, the people, the Palestinians who are being forced to leave, would they be

being forced to leave, would they be able to come back? He said, no, they

able to come back? He said, no, they wouldn't. That is the literal definition

wouldn't. That is the literal definition of ethnic cleansing according to a UN

of ethnic cleansing according to a UN definition.

definition. Do you think that Trump is saying this?

Do you think that Trump is saying this? Do you think that he has some personal

Do you think that he has some personal interest in cleansing Gazar? Do you

interest in cleansing Gazar? Do you think there might be some special

think there might be some special interest group or perhaps religious or

interest group or perhaps religious or ethnic group that's you know that maybe

ethnic group that's you know that maybe he received money from them and that's

he received money from them and that's the whole reason why uh he wants to

the whole reason why uh he wants to cleanse Gazer. Why do you think that is?

cleanse Gazer. Why do you think that is? I don't do Donald Trump's motivations. I

I don't do Donald Trump's motivations. I really don't care. My claim is that what

really don't care. My claim is that what he's doing is ethnic cleansing. Do you

he's doing is ethnic cleansing. Do you agree with that?

agree with that? I would actually yeah probably agree.

I would actually yeah probably agree. But I'm just

But I'm just You agree that it's ethnic cleansing.

You agree that it's ethnic cleansing. You agree with doing ethnic cleansing?

You agree with doing ethnic cleansing? No, I don't agree with it. But I agree

No, I don't agree with it. But I agree that's probably his plan. But I'm trying

that's probably his plan. But I'm trying to figure out like why do you think that

to figure out like why do you think that is? Because Donald Trump's a white man.

is? Because Donald Trump's a white man. He identifies as Christian. I'm not sure

He identifies as Christian. I'm not sure if he really is. But what interest does

if he really is. But what interest does he have in preserving a Jewish

he have in preserving a Jewish ethnostate? Like why would he have that?

ethnostate? Like why would he have that? It's a good question. You'd have to ask

It's a good question. You'd have to ask Donald Trump that question. I've got

Donald Trump that question. I've got multiple views. I'm sure you have many

multiple views. I'm sure you have many views. I'm I'm not sure I like where

views. I'm I'm not sure I like where you're going with your views, but um I

you're going with your views, but um I think Donald Trump is definitely someone

think Donald Trump is definitely someone who's got financial interests in ethnic

who's got financial interests in ethnic cleansing. He's got political interests.

cleansing. He's got political interests. He loves the evangelical vote. He get a

He loves the evangelical vote. He get a lot of Christian evangelicals like to

lot of Christian evangelicals like to support Israel because they think Jesus

support Israel because they think Jesus will come back if all the Jews are

will come back if all the Jews are gathered in one place with no

gathered in one place with no Palestinians. Uh I think he's going to

Palestinians. Uh I think he's going to make money he thinks from beachfront

make money he thinks from beachfront property with Jared Kushner. Uh he said

property with Jared Kushner. Uh he said something similar in the past.

something similar in the past. You think that's the real reason?

You think that's the real reason? I think there's multiple reasons. Yeah.

I think there's multiple reasons. Yeah. I think financial, geopolitical,

I think financial, geopolitical, ideological, evangelical. I don't really

ideological, evangelical. I don't really care. My claim is that what he's doing

care. My claim is that what he's doing is ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is

is ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is a war crime according to the fourth

a war crime according to the fourth Geneva Convention. It's against

Geneva Convention. It's against international law under the Rome

international law under the Rome Statute. So we shouldn't be part of

Statute. So we shouldn't be part of that. The United States should not be

that. The United States should not be supporting Donald Trump's plan for

supporting Donald Trump's plan for ethnic cleansing. I agree. Uh what do

ethnic cleansing. I agree. Uh what do you think what do you think should be

you think what do you think should be done instead uh to with the Israel Gaza

done instead uh to with the Israel Gaza situation? I'm not sure what your

situation? I'm not sure what your state would like to see a ceasefire in

state would like to see a ceasefire in Gaza. I would like to see I don't really

Gaza. I would like to see I don't really get into debates about what solutions. I

get into debates about what solutions. I would like to see an end to the killing.

would like to see an end to the killing. I would like to see Gazans have freedom.

I would like to see Gazans have freedom. I would like to see the Palestinians in

I would like to see the Palestinians in Gaza somehow get their land back. 80% of

Gaza somehow get their land back. 80% of Gaza right now is under Israeli military

Gaza right now is under Israeli military control or displacement. I would like to

control or displacement. I would like to see freedom for the Palestinian people.

see freedom for the Palestinian people. I'm an American. To go back to the core

I'm an American. To go back to the core of this show, I spot American values.

of this show, I spot American values. One person, one person free speech. It

One person, one person free speech. It really is a religious and ethnic battle.

really is a religious and ethnic battle. A religious battle.

A religious battle. Well, yes. That is what it's obviously

Well, yes. That is what it's obviously between Jews and Muslims want control of

between Jews and Muslims want control of the holy land.

the holy land. No, it's not.

No, it's not. Yes, it is. What else? What other

Yes, it is. What else? What other actually the founders of Israel were

actually the founders of Israel were secular. They were not religious

secular. They were not religious actually. And I think some religious

actually. And I think some religious Jews like Bazalot who's minister. It

Jews like Bazalot who's minister. It doesn't really matter. Is a religious

doesn't really matter. Is a religious fanatic. But no, the core of the

fanatic. But no, the core of the conflict is over land. It's colonial.

conflict is over land. It's colonial. It's historic. It is not about religion.

It's historic. It is not about religion. Colonialism is for a reason. steal the

Colonialism is for a reason. steal the land, want everyone to believe it's

land, want everyone to believe it's religious.

religious. My point is, why are we sitting here?

My point is, why are we sitting here? Why are we sitting here? It's like a a

Why are we sitting here? It's like a a false dichotomy where we have to argue

false dichotomy where we have to argue like, do Jews get Israel? Do Muslims get

like, do Jews get Israel? Do Muslims get Israel? Why are like we never brought up

Israel? Why are like we never brought up anyone's religion? How many of us bring

anyone's religion? How many of us bring up anyone's religion? How many of us

up anyone's religion? How many of us here are Christians? I didn't bring up

here are Christians? I didn't bring up anyone's relig trying to pick sides

anyone's relig trying to pick sides between Jews and Muslims taking over

between Jews and Muslims taking over Israel. Like, don't you think that

Israel. Like, don't you think that Hold Hold up. First of all, I didn't

Hold Hold up. First of all, I didn't bring up religion. Second of all, you

bring up religion. Second of all, you know that a lot of Palestinians are

know that a lot of Palestinians are Christian, right?

Christian, right? Some of them.

Some of them. You're just reducing it to Muslim versus

You're just reducing it to Muslim versus it's majority Muslim. Yeah, it's very

it's majority Muslim. Yeah, it's very But there are many prominent parties. I

But there are many prominent parties. I agree. Yeah, but there's not that many.

agree. Yeah, but there's not that many. It's not worth everything.

It's not worth everything. Well, it is the reason. Why do you think

Well, it is the reason. Why do you think Iran is backing proxies that want to

Iran is backing proxies that want to take over Gaza, you know, back the

take over Gaza, you know, back the terrorism Gaza? It's obviously because

terrorism Gaza? It's obviously because they want to Muslim control of the land.

they want to Muslim control of the land. You don't think that's why?

You don't think that's why? No, I don't think it's about religion.

No, I don't think it's about religion. Is it?

Is it? I' I've been following this conflict for

I' I've been following this conflict for decades. It's not about religion. People

decades. It's not about religion. People who say it's about religion, it's a

who say it's about religion, it's a distraction.

distraction. Well, it's a big part of it. I think

Well, it's a big part of it. I think I think it's become a big part of it.

I think it's become a big part of it. It's been weaponized by bad faith

It's been weaponized by bad faith actors. Sure, but I don't think that's

actors. Sure, but I don't think that's the core. The core is that one people,

the core. The core is that one people, one group of people are dominating

one group of people are dominating another group of people.

another group of people. What group of people is it? But what

What group of people is it? But what group of people is dominating another

group of people is dominating another group of people?

group of people? One ethnic group is dominating another

One ethnic group is dominating another ethnic group. What ethnic group?

ethnic group. What ethnic group? Jewish people.

Jewish people. Yes. Dominating

Yes. Dominating Arabs.

Arabs. Yes.

Yes. But I didn't say anything about

But I didn't say anything about Christian, Muslim, Jew in a religious

Christian, Muslim, Jew in a religious sense.

sense. Jews define as religion and ethnic. Do

Jews define as religion and ethnic. Do you know that? Right.

you know that? Right. Well, why why do you think that Muslims

Well, why why do you think that Muslims want control of the Holy Muslims? I

want control of the Holy Muslims? I didn't bring up Muslims.

didn't bring up Muslims. Well, they're Muslim states. Like what

Well, they're Muslim states. Like what do you think like Iran wants to do with

do you think like Iran wants to do with Bran? But but that's part of the

Bran? But but that's part of the conversation. What do you mean?

conversation. What do you mean? No, it's not. The conversation is Donald

No, it's not. The conversation is Donald Trump is doing ethnic cleansing and you

Trump is doing ethnic cleansing and you agree with me. So I'm not sure why

agree with me. So I'm not sure why you're still here.

you're still here. It's part of the larger contest.

It's part of the larger contest. It's a weird debate when you actually

It's a weird debate when you actually agree with me.

agree with me. What I was trying to say is we kind of

What I was trying to say is we kind of have this false dichotomy here where

have this false dichotomy here where we're trying to take the you know the

we're trying to take the you know the side of the gauins which mostly it's a

side of the gauins which mostly it's a Muslim majority or the side of human

Muslim majority or the side of human beings who are suffering human beings.

beings who are suffering human beings. You should try who gets control over

You should try who gets control over Israel.

Israel. I say about control. America is a

I say about control. America is a majority Christian country. Should we be

majority Christian country. Should we be deciding Christians should have control

deciding Christians should have control of

of I agree. Donald Trump should not nothing

I agree. Donald Trump should not nothing to do with religion. Donald Trump should

to do with religion. Donald Trump should not be deciding what happens to Gaza.

not be deciding what happens to Gaza. That's my claim. If you agree with me,

That's my claim. If you agree with me, great. Let's shake hands. Give the seat

great. Let's shake hands. Give the seat to someone who disag. Do you think that

to someone who disag. Do you think that America should just cut ties with Israel

America should just cut ties with Israel altogether?

altogether? What's your definition of cut ties?

What's your definition of cut ties? Like stop funding them, stop being a

Like stop funding them, stop being a military arm.

military arm. Yes, I'm on record saying that was an

Yes, I'm on record saying that was an easier debate.

Whoa. Welcome back, Richie. you really want to be here.

want to be here. Um, first of all, I I really thought

Um, first of all, I I really thought that obviously where we started, where

that obviously where we started, where it ended up, there's a lot of

it ended up, there's a lot of aggression. I can see in your eyes

aggression. I can see in your eyes there's a level of exhaustion from being

there's a level of exhaustion from being here. This is where my empathy comes in.

here. This is where my empathy comes in. Where it doesn't is, you know, when you

Where it doesn't is, you know, when you have a room full of people that do agree

have a room full of people that do agree with you, we have this opportunity to

with you, we have this opportunity to come together and you're kind of mocking

come together and you're kind of mocking people when they do. So, you mock Sarah

people when they do. So, you mock Sarah a little bit when you guys clearly had a

a little bit when you guys clearly had a common interest and goal to reach. So, I

common interest and goal to reach. So, I can tell you're agitated. I want to

can tell you're agitated. I want to bring that all down. Please,

bring that all down. Please, I'm I'm guessing you're not going to,

I'm I'm guessing you're not going to, but let's see.

but let's see. No, no, I'm going to. I do want to point

No, no, I'm going to. I do want to point out some contradictions. First and

out some contradictions. First and foremost, I don't believe you're

foremost, I don't believe you're pro-American in the value system that

pro-American in the value system that you claim to uphold, especially with

you claim to uphold, especially with free speech if you're not willing to

free speech if you're not willing to debate people that don't share your

debate people that don't share your values. That's very un Trump's plan for

values. That's very un Trump's plan for Gaza is ethnic cleansing.

Gaza is ethnic cleansing. I I don't believe it's ethnic cleansing,

I I don't believe it's ethnic cleansing, but I but I cuz it's not his plan.

but I but I cuz it's not his plan. It is his plan. He said it's my plan.

It is his plan. He said it's my plan. No, he's not call his plan.

No, he's not call his plan. He is obeying someone else's plan.

He is obeying someone else's plan. Okay.

Okay. Who is he obeying? Uh he is obeying

Who is he obeying? Uh he is obeying Israel's plan. Okay. Uh for the greater

Israel's plan. Okay. Uh for the greater Israel project of which this is one of

Israel project of which this is one of those things that we can agree on. We're

those things that we can agree on. We're not Why is he doing that? I don't I

not Why is he doing that? I don't I don't know. Maybe they have something on

don't know. Maybe they have something on him. Maybe they have something on all of

him. Maybe they have something on all of you think it's a bad thing what he's

you think it's a bad thing what he's doing.

doing. Absolutely. Okay.

Absolutely. Okay. But see, you're I don't want to shut

But see, you're I don't want to shut down agree with you. Okay, perfect. You

down agree with you. Okay, perfect. You know, but I I I want to take this

know, but I I I want to take this opportunity because I don't know if I'm

opportunity because I don't know if I'm going to get the opportunity again to

going to get the opportunity again to say you're not American first and

say you're not American first and foremost. You're not

foremost. You're not Remember what I said? The agitation from

Remember what I said? The agitation from you is not going to be there. But what

you is not going to be there. But what I'm saying,

I'm saying, you came to lower the temperature and

you came to lower the temperature and then make racist remarks. You know

then make racist remarks. You know that's a racist remark.

that's a racist remark. It's not racist.

It's not racist. You tell an American citizen.

You tell an American citizen. But okay, perfect. Perfect. You just

But okay, perfect. Perfect. You just proved your own point. You just said

proved your own point. You just said that was a racist position. Earlier you

that was a racist position. Earlier you you argue this contention that America

you argue this contention that America has no race. It's a bunch of immigrants

has no race. It's a bunch of immigrants that culminate together.

that culminate together. America has no race.

America has no race. You you inferred it. You absolutely did.

You you inferred it. You absolutely did. So now you're saying it's racist for me

So now you're saying it's racist for me to take American nationalist approach.

to take American nationalist approach. You're kind of

You're kind of American national approach. Is that a

American national approach. Is that a white approach? I I think it's a a white

white approach? I I think it's a a white nivist approach of of course only

nivist approach of of course only Americans are white people. Why did your

Americans are white people. Why did your parents immigrate only white people?

parents immigrate only white people? Why did your parents immigrate from

Why did your parents immigrate from India to the UK?

India to the UK? Because the UK colonized and conquered

Because the UK colonized and conquered India.

India. Okay. Why did you immigrate to America?

Okay. Why did you immigrate to America? Because many reasons.

Because many reasons. Okay. All opportunity. There's

Okay. All opportunity. There's opportunity.

opportunity. You don't know

You don't know the accent. Your accent is a is an

the accent. Your accent is a is an afflect of of white Anglo-Saxon.

afflect of of white Anglo-Saxon. You know there are 50 million Americans

You know there are 50 million Americans in this country.

in this country. I understand. But you're

I understand. But you're none of them are Americans in your view.

none of them are Americans in your view. what I'm trying to get you to do to

what I'm trying to get you to do to reach a common ground here.

reach a common ground here. We're not gonna reach a common ground

We're not gonna reach a common ground because you said I'm not American.

because you said I'm not American. Please try.

Please try. I don't think you're American.

I don't think you're American. I'm saying I'm saying you're not

I'm saying I'm saying you're not American. I'm not I'm saying you're not

American. I'm not I'm saying you're not American due to values.

American due to values. I don't think you're not American on

I don't think you're not American on values either. I think you're a little

values either. I think you're a little fascisty, a little racist.

fascisty, a little racist. See, you're using these words. Okay.

See, you're using these words. Okay. First of all, I want to say this. I'm

First of all, I want to say this. I'm not just throwing you sit down. I said

not just throwing you sit down. I said every conservative that has ever been

every conservative that has ever been shut down by leftists like you. For

shut down by leftists like you. For every conservative, for every

every conservative, for every conservative, you've already said, for

conservative, you've already said, for every rightwing, for every Stefan Mu Mu,

every rightwing, for every Stefan Mu Mu, Thomas, Nick Fuentes, all of those

Thomas, Nick Fuentes, all of those people American.

people American. He's Australian. But but but that's the

He's Australian. But but but that's the point. I'm saying people that are on our

point. I'm saying people that are on our side of the aisle that get shut down by

side of the aisle that get shut down by people like you because you're

people like you because you're leveraging this position of emotion.

leveraging this position of emotion. You're joking, right? No, I'm not.

You're joking, right? No, I'm not. You're leveraging

You're leveraging my side of the aisle is trying to deport

my side of the aisle is trying to deport you.

you. The only shut down they're actually

The only shut down they're actually trying my entire race. So, what are you

trying my entire race. So, what are you talking about?

talking about? What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? You're a white genocide guy.

You're a white genocide guy. Are you kidding me? You know the fact

Are you kidding me? You know the fact you're

you're I'm amazed that Jubilee find some of you

I'm amazed that Jubilee find some of you guys. How do they find you?

guys. How do they find you? Do you email you?

Do you email you? Do you have

Do you have Why are you trying to ou me?

Why are you trying to ou me? Do you go to Nordstrom? All immigrants.

Do you go to Nordstrom? All immigrants. Have you ever been on eBay? Immigrants.

Have you ever been on eBay? Immigrants. You love immigrants.

You love immigrants. You love immigrants when they're helping

You love immigrants when they're helping you. You just don't like the color of my

you. You just don't like the color of my skin.

skin. We're having a different genocide.

We're having a different genocide. All right. You've been voted out. Please

All right. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat. Okay. I really wish

return to your seat. Okay. I really wish we could have got

we could have got I mean, you believe in white genocide,

I mean, you believe in white genocide, so it's very hard to

Hello. Hey, how's it going?

Hey, how's it going? Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you. Hello. So, um, I'll switch over to the

Hello. So, um, I'll switch over to the Gaza thing in a second, but first off, I

Gaza thing in a second, but first off, I just wanted to touch on that. You said

just wanted to touch on that. You said that you support free speech, of course,

that you support free speech, of course, right?

right? So, what I'm confused about is you've

So, what I'm confused about is you've refused to debate people that I've

refused to debate people that I've disagreed with you because you said that

disagreed with you because you said that they're racist or they're fascist,

they're racist or they're fascist, right?

right? No, no, no, If we're going to do facts,

No, no, no, If we're going to do facts, they said they were racist and fascist.

they said they were racist and fascist. Get your facts right before you start

Get your facts right before you start arguing.

arguing. So, isn't the whole entire point of a

So, isn't the whole entire point of a debate to debate people that you don't

debate to debate people that you don't agree with? I don't debate people who

agree with? I don't debate people who don't see me a as equal. No point. Or b

don't see me a as equal. No point. Or b support democracy because that would

support democracy because that would undermine the whole idea of the debate.

undermine the whole idea of the debate. If you don't support democracy as our

If you don't support democracy as our friend here doesn't, and support General

friend here doesn't, and support General Franco, then what is the point of a

Franco, then what is the point of a debate? The first amendment doesn't mean

debate? The first amendment doesn't mean you have to debate everyone. Somebody

you have to debate everyone. Somebody comes up to you in the street and starts

comes up to you in the street and starts talking to you, you don't you don't have

talking to you, you don't you don't have an obligation to carry on talking to

an obligation to carry on talking to them. I'm sure you go about your

them. I'm sure you go about your business. somebody comes up to you in

business. somebody comes up to you in the subway and sits next to you and

the subway and sits next to you and starts ranting in your face, you're not

starts ranting in your face, you're not going to start debating. Everyone here

going to start debating. Everyone here has hygiene standards as do you. There

has hygiene standards as do you. There are people you wouldn't debate, I'm

are people you wouldn't debate, I'm sure, as well.

sure, as well. Okay. So, can you please uh describe why

Okay. So, can you please uh describe why you think Trump is uh supporting ethnic

you think Trump is uh supporting ethnic cleansing of GSA just because he wants

cleansing of GSA just because he wants to take over the land there? How does

to take over the land there? How does that kill?

that kill? Not just take over the land,

Not just take over the land, kick out all the people. That is the

kick out all the people. That is the definition of ethnic cleansing.

definition of ethnic cleansing. So, isn't ethnic cleansing killing

So, isn't ethnic cleansing killing people? Because it seems like you're

people? Because it seems like you're No, you can ethnic cleanse people

No, you can ethnic cleanse people without killing them. And by the way,

without killing them. And by the way, they have been killed. More than 50,000

they have been killed. More than 50,000 people in Gaza have been killed by the

people in Gaza have been killed by the Israelis, by people like Bazalmotrich

Israelis, by people like Bazalmotrich who said recently the finance minister

who said recently the finance minister of Israel, "We are going to Gaza to

of Israel, "We are going to Gaza to conquer, cleanse, and remain. We are

conquer, cleanse, and remain. We are going to annihilate the place. We're

going to annihilate the place. We're going to disassemble Gaza." He said,

going to disassemble Gaza." He said, "We're going to leave it behind as piles

"We're going to leave it behind as piles of rubble. That's the guy Trump's

of rubble. That's the guy Trump's funding, supporting, that's the guy

funding, supporting, that's the guy praising Trump." So yes, Trump and

praising Trump." So yes, Trump and Smootrich are ethnically cleansing.

Smootrich are ethnically cleansing. I can I cannot deny I cannot deny that

I can I cannot deny I cannot deny that thousands of people are dying in Gaza.

thousands of people are dying in Gaza. But you need to realize why are they

But you need to realize why are they dying? Is it possibly that they're

dying? Is it possibly that they're attacking another country because people

attacking another country because people are dying attacking another country?

are dying attacking another country? Just because Israel is killing more

Just because Israel is killing more Gazins than Gazins are killing Israel

Gazins than Gazins are killing Israel doesn't mean Gaza is righteous and

doesn't mean Gaza is righteous and Israel is evil.

Israel is evil. I never said anything about evil or

I never said anything about evil or right. I said ethnic cleansing. You said

right. I said ethnic cleansing. You said don't they have to be killed? I said

don't they have to be killed? I said they are being killed and the criteria

they are being killed and the criteria for what's happening to them. If Donald

for what's happening to them. If Donald Trump says these people have to leave

Trump says these people have to leave and never come back, is that not ethnic

and never come back, is that not ethnic cleansing? What is your definition of

cleansing? What is your definition of ethnic cleansing?

ethnic cleansing? I would think ethnic cleansing is when

I would think ethnic cleansing is when you're killing off a uh large part of an

you're killing off a uh large part of an ethnic group.

ethnic group. That's genocide. You're confusing your

That's genocide. You're confusing your terms. Ethnic cleansing is removing one

terms. Ethnic cleansing is removing one ethnic group

ethnic group using a deliberate policy by violence or

using a deliberate policy by violence or terror inspiring means to remove another

terror inspiring means to remove another population, another ethnic group from a

population, another ethnic group from a certain geographic area. That's the UN

certain geographic area. That's the UN definition of ethnic cleansing. That is

definition of ethnic cleansing. That is what he's doing. When he was asked

what he's doing. When he was asked Donald Trump, can they come back? He

Donald Trump, can they come back? He said no, they cannot. That is I think

said no, they cannot. That is I think I've heard all these fact people talk

I've heard all these fact people talk about white genocide today. You guys are

about white genocide today. You guys are nationalists. How would you feel if

nationalists. How would you feel if somebody came the president of France

somebody came the president of France came and told you to leave your land and

came and told you to leave your land and not come back? Would you not feel you'd

not come back? Would you not feel you'd been ethnically cleansed from your home?

been ethnically cleansed from your home? From America?

From America? Yeah. Well, because I'm a I'm my my

Yeah. Well, because I'm a I'm my my ancestors were settlers here, not

ancestors were settlers here, not immigrants. They actually

immigrants. They actually Palestinians are not immigrants in Gaza.

Palestinians are not immigrants in Gaza. They are indigenous people to the land.

They are indigenous people to the land. Didn't Israel just give Gaza the land

Didn't Israel just give Gaza the land like a few decades ago?

like a few decades ago? No.

No. I'm pretty sure Israel used to have that

I'm pretty sure Israel used to have that land.

land. I'm pretty sure you're wrong. They

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. They withdrew from 2005 from the land, but

withdrew from 2005 from the land, but control the air

control the air them in 2005.

them in 2005. No, they don't give it to them. They

No, they don't give it to them. They control the air, the sea space, the

control the air, the sea space, the borders, the population registry. They

borders, the population registry. They controlled what went in and out. It was

controlled what went in and out. It was a prison, an open air prison. That's not

a prison, an open air prison. That's not giving them.

giving them. Don't they have a border with Egypt and

Don't they have a border with Egypt and then the Mediterranean

then the Mediterranean and Israelis and Egyptians work together

and Israelis and Egyptians work together because Donald Trump and Joe Biden and

because Donald Trump and Joe Biden and Barack Obama?

Barack Obama? Yes, they're funded by the United

Yes, they're funded by the United States. Did you know that Muslim

States. Did you know that Muslim countries do bad things, too?

countries do bad things, too? No, I know that do they do bad things.

No, I know that do they do bad things. Okay, then we're in agreement.

Okay, then we're in agreement. All right, pause. You've been voted out.

All right, pause. You've been voted out. Please return to your seat. Nice

Please return to your seat. Nice to meet you.

No one. Great. Hello, sir. Welcome back.

Hello, sir. Welcome back. See you again, Miy. All right. So, I

See you again, Miy. All right. So, I agree that Trump wants to do a

agree that Trump wants to do a cleansing,

cleansing, but not an ethnic one because that area

but not an ethnic one because that area requires a lot of cleansing because when

requires a lot of cleansing because when you have a population that was taught

you have a population that was taught from early childhood age to hate Jews,

from early childhood age to hate Jews, Christians, and pagans, you need some

Christians, and pagans, you need some serious re-education.

serious re-education. Number one, that's not true. And number

Number one, that's not true. And number two, that's not what he's proposing.

two, that's not what he's proposing. Well, I mean, mo most Palestinians by

Well, I mean, mo most Palestinians by polling number do support Hamas.

polling number do support Hamas. They support resisting Israel. Well, I

They support resisting Israel. Well, I mean the thing is, you know, what did

mean the thing is, you know, what did they do in the first place that they are

they do in the first place that they are in this uh what you call open air

in this uh what you call open air prison?

prison? Great question. What did they do to

Great question. What did they do to deserve being occupied?

deserve being occupied? Well, here's the thing. Because the

Well, here's the thing. Because the Islamic Republic in Iran is using them

Islamic Republic in Iran is using them as a tool.

as a tool. What does this as a tool for their

What does this as a tool for their Islamic expansion?

Islamic expansion? When did the Islamic Hold on. When did

When did the Islamic Hold on. When did the Islamic Republic of Iran You're

the Islamic Republic of Iran You're Iranian American, I believe?

Iranian American, I believe? Yes, I am.

Yes, I am. When was the Islamic Republic of Iran

When was the Islamic Republic of Iran founded?

founded? 1979.

1979. When was Gaza occupied by Israel?

When was Gaza occupied by Israel? uh 19 well the very first 67 yeah so can

uh 19 well the very first 67 yeah so can we do the maths together 12 years before

we do the maths together 12 years before the Islamic Republic of Iran existed

the Islamic Republic of Iran existed Israel was oppressing occupying

Israel was oppressing occupying dispossessing the people of Gaza so your

dispossessing the people of Gaza so your argument makes no sense

argument makes no sense were there any terrorist organizations

were there any terrorist organizations at the time

at the time the PLO was considered a terrorist

the PLO was considered a terrorist organization by the entire western world

organization by the entire western world all right so was Hamas there

all right so was Hamas there Hamas did not exist till the 1980s

Hamas did not exist till the 1980s exactly my point is after the Islamic

exactly my point is after the Islamic Republic came it became chaotic because

Republic came it became chaotic because the Islamic Republic started to lose the

the Islamic Republic started to lose the what the so-called innocent Palestinians

what the so-called innocent Palestinians for their own

for their own so-called innocent Palestinian. You

so-called innocent Palestinian. You don't think Palestinians are innocent?

don't think Palestinians are innocent? Not all of them because

Not all of them because what about the 17,000 children who were

what about the 17,000 children who were killed?

killed? They're doing the same.

They're doing the same. 17,000 children were killed. Were they

17,000 children were killed. Were they not innocent?

not innocent? Who uh were they not innocent?

Who uh were they not innocent? Who's responsible for that?

Who's responsible for that? Israel dropped the bomb.

Israel dropped the bomb. Hamas is responsible. Hamas is

Hamas is responsible. Hamas is responsible for hiding in hospitals and

responsible for hiding in hospitals and and banking tunnels underneath.

and banking tunnels underneath. So when children are shot in the head by

So when children are shot in the head by Israeli snipers, Israeli snipers aren't

Israeli snipers, Israeli snipers aren't responsible for that.

responsible for that. Look, it's a simple question. Here's the

Look, it's a simple question. Here's the problem. When Israeli snipers shoot

problem. When Israeli snipers shoot Palestinian children in Gaza in the

Palestinian children in Gaza in the head, as eyewitness testimony and

head, as eyewitness testimony and doctor's testimony proves, that's not

doctor's testimony proves, that's not the fault of the Israeli snipers.

the fault of the Israeli snipers. This is this is the problem because then

This is this is the problem because then you have a problem.

you have a problem. The problem is you won't answer the

The problem is you won't answer the question. I'll ask you a third time.

question. I'll ask you a third time. When Israeli snipers shoot Palestinian

When Israeli snipers shoot Palestinian children in the head, is that not the

children in the head, is that not the fault of Israeli snipers?

fault of Israeli snipers? Well, you got to let me finish.

Well, you got to let me finish. No, you got to answer the question

No, you got to answer the question fourth time. When Israeli snipers

fourth time. When Israeli snipers Palestinian children in the head, we're

Palestinian children in the head, we're running out of time. I need to know what

running out of time. I need to know what you think about innocent children cuz

you think about innocent children cuz what you said was pretty outrageous. You

what you said was pretty outrageous. You said so. innocent Palestinians for the

said so. innocent Palestinians for the fifth time when Palestinian children are

fifth time when Palestinian children are shot in the head by Israeli snipers. Is

shot in the head by Israeli snipers. Is that not the fault of Israel?

that not the fault of Israel? What did those children do?

What did those children do? What did you tell me? Did the children

What did you tell me? Did the children deserve to be shot in the head? Because

deserve to be shot in the head? Because the problem is millions of people are

the problem is millions of people are watching you say

watching you say children. They start brainwashing

children. They start brainwashing children at a at a very long young age.

children at a at a very long young age. So you support sniping children in Gaza?

So you support sniping children in Gaza? Do other people here support sniping

Do other people here support sniping children in Gaza? Is that a conservative

children in Gaza? Is that a conservative position now?

position now? What if they're wearing a suicide vest?

What if they're wearing a suicide vest? They weren't. But what if they are?

They weren't. But what if they are? They're not though. Dozens of children.

They're not though. Dozens of children. I have friends who went there. Doctors

I have friends who went there. Doctors went to American doctors. They came back

went to American doctors. They came back and we have multiple children.

and we have multiple children. What if they're hellbent on killing you

What if they're hellbent on killing you and your family?

and your family? A 10-year-old child, an 8-year-old

A 10-year-old child, an 8-year-old child, a six-y old child.

child, a six-y old child. Because because you sitting on

Because because you sitting on television where millions of people are

television where millions of people are going to see, your neighbors, your

going to see, your neighbors, your friends, you support the killing of

friends, you support the killing of children. Millions of people don't know

children. Millions of people don't know what's going on.

what's going on. Even your fellow rightwingers are

Even your fellow rightwingers are saying, "Don't go this far.

saying, "Don't go this far. genocide. Sure. But don't

genocide. Sure. But don't millions of people don't understand the

millions of people don't understand the brainwashing that is going on in Isra

brainwashing that is going on in Isra Islamic Republic and in Palestine to

Islamic Republic and in Palestine to create this obsessed with Iran so much

create this obsessed with Iran so much that you're supporting the killing of

that you're supporting the killing of Palestinian children who never harmed

Palestinian children who never harmed you or any other Israeli. That's insane.

you or any other Israeli. That's insane. Look,

Look, and the fact that you support Trump's

and the fact that you support Trump's ethnic cleansing now doesn't surprise

ethnic cleansing now doesn't surprise me.

me. I didn't say ethnic cleansing. I said

I didn't say ethnic cleansing. I said cleansing of the land because you need

cleansing of the land because you need to cleanse the land from

to cleanse the land from said you've been voted out. Please

said you've been voted out. Please return to your seat.

How you doing? Good to see you again. I'm good. I'm good seeing you, too, man.

I'm good. I'm good seeing you, too, man. Uh, first thing I'm going to say is, uh,

Uh, first thing I'm going to say is, uh, I'm not dying for Israel. Okay, that's

I'm not dying for Israel. Okay, that's the first thing I'm going to say. And,

the first thing I'm going to say. And, uh, I don't like when you come up here

uh, I don't like when you come up here and you use the type of rhetoric that

and you use the type of rhetoric that you do. You talk like all these like

you do. You talk like all these like leftwing positions and then you go to

leftwing positions and then you go to the last part, which is I don't support

the last part, which is I don't support ethnic cleansing in Palestine. I think

ethnic cleansing in Palestine. I think you're doing a huge disservice to pro

you're doing a huge disservice to pro Palestinians when you start allowing

Palestinians when you start allowing aligning yourself with all these

aligning yourself with all these progressives. Um I I don't think it

progressives. Um I I don't think it looks good because you have all these

looks good because you have all these conservatives in here who oppose war.

conservatives in here who oppose war. They oppose intervention in the same

They oppose intervention in the same tradition of Pat Buchanan and all the

tradition of Pat Buchanan and all the greats that came

greats that came about Donald Trump though sadly.

about Donald Trump though sadly. Yeah, it is sad. It is sad. I do agree.

Yeah, it is sad. It is sad. I do agree. I mean he ran on an anti-war ticket. He

I mean he ran on an anti-war ticket. He said he was gonna I didn't

said he was gonna I didn't because he lies, right?

because he lies, right? You gonna let me talk or you just want

You gonna let me talk or you just want to Yeah, true. So I mean yeah you keep

to Yeah, true. So I mean yeah you keep you know you keep going back to Trump. I

you know you keep going back to Trump. I don't think this is part of his plan. I

don't think this is part of his plan. I think this is a plan of lobbyists and

think this is a plan of lobbyists and this is not just unique to Trump. It's

this is not just unique to Trump. It's been a thing since the Democrats. It's

been a thing since the Democrats. It's been a thing since the Republicans

been a thing since the Republicans before him. It's it's been like this

before him. It's it's been like this since Truman. I don't know if you read

since Truman. I don't know if you read like John Mirshimer's the Israel lobby

like John Mirshimer's the Israel lobby or anything like that. Would you agree

or anything like that. Would you agree or disagree with anything like that?

or disagree with anything like that? Oh, I agree with Steven John Mesh. Yeah,

Oh, I agree with Steven John Mesh. Yeah, for sure.

for sure. Okay, great. So, I'm just wondering when

Okay, great. So, I'm just wondering when you ally yourself with all these

you ally yourself with all these leftists and you come up here and you

leftists and you come up here and you argue for immigration, you argue up here

argue for immigration, you argue up here that, you know, Trump's this bad

that, you know, Trump's this bad criminal and this and that and then you

criminal and this and that and then you think Trump's bad too. a bad I think

think Trump's bad too. a bad I think he's good on some questions and bad on

he's good on some questions and bad on other things. But let me get to my point

other things. But let me get to my point here is you allow yourselves with guys

here is you allow yourselves with guys like uh you know Jewish Voices for Peace

like uh you know Jewish Voices for Peace and all those guys.

and all those guys. Great people.

Great people. Yeah. Not really though. Why?

Yeah. Not really though. Why? Cuz they're self-interested in it. It

Cuz they're self-interested in it. It says by definition it says it says it on

says by definition it says it says it on their home page.

their home page. By definition they're not

By definition they're not self-interested, right? They're going

self-interested, right? They're going against their own.

against their own. Are you going to let me talk? On their

Are you going to let me talk? On their homepage it literally says that we are

homepage it literally says that we are here to segregate Judaism from Zionism.

here to segregate Judaism from Zionism. It's very clear they're doing this in

It's very clear they're doing this in their own interest. That's why it

their own interest. That's why it literally says Jewish voices for peace.

literally says Jewish voices for peace. They're going to be the good Jews who

They're going to be the good Jews who say that we don't support Palestine. And

say that we don't support Palestine. And then what happens is you take all these

then what happens is you take all these progressives, you go out there and LAR

progressives, you go out there and LAR in the street. Then everyone here who's

in the street. Then everyone here who's conservative, they're going to broke for

conservative, they're going to broke for the pro-war candidate because they don't

the pro-war candidate because they don't want to be associated with all the

want to be associated with all the liberals.

liberals. You're forced to vote for pro-war

You're forced to vote for pro-war people. Poor people.

people. Poor people. It's either that or get replaced in my

It's either that or get replaced in my country. What do you want me to do?

country. What do you want me to do? Oh, you and your replacement [ __ ]

Oh, you and your replacement [ __ ] Yeah. Okay, buddy.

Yeah. Okay, buddy. [Applause]

[Applause] Oh wow, there's three people so far.

Oh wow, there's three people so far. Let's keep counting. We should be nicer

Let's keep counting. We should be nicer to you, otherwise you'll deport us. What

to you, otherwise you'll deport us. What a great argument. This is the free

a great argument. This is the free speech debate.

speech debate. It's not your country, my friend. It's

It's not your country, my friend. It's our country whether you like it or not.

I I thought Kai was he smiled. He laughed. He disagreed. He did it. I felt

laughed. He disagreed. He did it. I felt like it was good faith. Let's see.

like it was good faith. Let's see. I appreciate it, Eddie.

I appreciate it, Eddie. He seemed to be in good faith. He seems

He seemed to be in good faith. He seems kind of smart and uh you know he's one

kind of smart and uh you know he's one of the few people who doesn't want to

of the few people who doesn't want to deport me or or maybe not. We're going

deport me or or maybe not. We're going to find out.

to find out. My claim is we should get rid of

My claim is we should get rid of birthright citizenship.

birthright citizenship. Why do you want to get rid of birthright

Why do you want to get rid of birthright citizenship and how by the way? Because

citizenship and how by the way? Because you know it's in the constitution. I'm

you know it's in the constitution. I'm so glad you brought this up. Yes.

so glad you brought this up. Yes. Because it was one of my

Because it was one of my the 14th

the 14th 14th I mentioned it to a bunch of your

14th I mentioned it to a bunch of your friends and nobody wanted to engage in

friends and nobody wanted to engage in the 14th. Let's talk about the 14th

the 14th. Let's talk about the 14th amendment citizenship clause which says

amendment citizenship clause which says that if you're born here you're a

that if you're born here you're a citizen of the United States.

citizen of the United States. Yes. I well I and I chose this because

Yes. I well I and I chose this because it's an it's an extension of the

it's an it's an extension of the original debate and the immigration

original debate and the immigration debate.

debate. Okay.

Okay. I think birthright citizenship first of

I think birthright citizenship first of all when it was originally argued um you

all when it was originally argued um you know among the the people who were who

know among the the people who were who are actually voting on the clause right

are actually voting on the clause right it was argued that the birthright

it was argued that the birthright citizenship was not automatically

citizenship was not automatically extended to everybody who was just born

extended to everybody who was just born here. And we have a long history of that

here. And we have a long history of that as well for example with the Native

as well for example with the Native Americans who had particular laws that

Americans who had particular laws that applied solely to them. What I think

applied solely to them. What I think we're seeing in this country is not

we're seeing in this country is not everybody is so similarly under the

everybody is so similarly under the jurisdiction thereof of the United

jurisdiction thereof of the United States, right? And by allowing for

States, right? And by allowing for birthright citizenship and not

birthright citizenship and not interpreting the Constitution as we're

interpreting the Constitution as we're legally allowed to and restrict, you

legally allowed to and restrict, you know, the automatic citizenship of

know, the automatic citizenship of anybody who's born here, we actually

anybody who's born here, we actually remove the issue, for example, of family

remove the issue, for example, of family separation because there is no incentive

separation because there is no incentive of a family to come over to this country

of a family to come over to this country illegally and then have a child, which

illegally and then have a child, which is contributing to the awful situation

is contributing to the awful situation we have in America of breaking up

we have in America of breaking up families. This is not something that I

families. This is not something that I imagine you or I agree with.

imagine you or I agree with. No,

No, the issue is birthright citizenship

the issue is birthright citizenship hasn't incentivized that.

hasn't incentivized that. So even if I were to concede that in

So even if I were to concede that in some cases birthright citizenship has

some cases birthright citizenship has incentivized that that you know I don't

incentivized that that you know I don't like the phrase anchor babies, but I'm

like the phrase anchor babies, but I'm not naive enough to pretend that there

not naive enough to pretend that there are not immigrants who come here and

are not immigrants who come here and time the pregnancy in order to get

time the pregnancy in order to get of you can you and I can agree on that.

of you can you and I can agree on that. Yeah.

Yeah. But that doesn't mean you then rip up a

But that doesn't mean you then rip up a constitutional principle that goes back

constitutional principle that goes back centuries. Goes back before the 14th

centuries. Goes back before the 14th amendment. 14th amendment came about I

amendment. 14th amendment came about I think in 1868 if memory serves me

think in 1868 if memory serves me correctly

correctly but the principle underlying it is

but the principle underlying it is actually from my other country the UK

actually from my other country the UK ancient English common law right so this

ancient English common law right so this was always the case the 14th amendment

was always the case the 14th amendment as you know because you seem well read

as you know because you seem well read came along and codified what was already

came along and codified what was already a principle in American and English law

a principle in American and English law that if you're born in the country you

that if you're born in the country you are a citizen now you mentioned the

are a citizen now you mentioned the point about jurisdiction there is that

point about jurisdiction there is that little bit in there in where it says

little bit in there in where it says subject to the jurisdiction thereof that

subject to the jurisdiction thereof that in the debate if you go back and read

in the debate if you go back and read the debate that the senators had at the

the debate that the senators had at the time they were very explicit that that

time they were very explicit that that was to do with foreign ministers and

was to do with foreign ministers and foreign ambassadors, diplomats living in

foreign ambassadors, diplomats living in embassies decades shouldn't be citizens.

embassies decades shouldn't be citizens. Obviously, they're here on their own.

Obviously, they're here on their own. You know, the the Argentine embassy in

You know, the the Argentine embassy in DC, it's Argentine soil, you know. So,

DC, it's Argentine soil, you know. So, we accept all that. Absolutely. But when

we accept all that. Absolutely. But when they were asked but when they were asked

they were asked but when they were asked about Chinese immigrants, Senator

about Chinese immigrants, Senator Trumbull, who was uh I think the chair

Trumbull, who was uh I think the chair of the judiciary committee back in the

of the judiciary committee back in the 1860s during this debate,

1860s during this debate, he said at the time, Chinese immigrants

he said at the time, Chinese immigrants children, they are citizens. In fact,

children, they are citizens. In fact, 1898, as you well know, we get Wong Kim

1898, as you well know, we get Wong Kim Arc, Supreme Court case, Wongqim Arc

Arc, Supreme Court case, Wongqim Arc versus the United States, and the

versus the United States, and the Supreme Court says yes, even the child

Supreme Court says yes, even the child of undocumented Chinese immigrants is an

of undocumented Chinese immigrants is an American citizen. So, this is a

American citizen. So, this is a principle going back centuries. So,

principle going back centuries. So, while I can agree with you that there

while I can agree with you that there are cases that abuse the 14th amendment,

are cases that abuse the 14th amendment, that there are issues of family

that there are issues of family separation, I'm not going to rip up a

separation, I'm not going to rip up a constitutional principle that goes back

constitutional principle that goes back centuries and is backed by what 27y old

centuries and is backed by what 27y old Supreme Court president because Donald

Supreme Court president because Donald Trump is looking for ways to cut the

Trump is looking for ways to cut the number of brown and black people in the

number of brown and black people in the United States.

United States. If if you don't mind me interrupting,

If if you don't mind me interrupting, this is this is where I think it's

this is this is where I think it's important as well to go back to what we

important as well to go back to what we talked about with the Constitution. When

talked about with the Constitution. When we're analyzing, and I admittedly, I'm

we're analyzing, and I admittedly, I'm not as interested in the legal argument.

not as interested in the legal argument. There's obviously many ways to interpret

There's obviously many ways to interpret the constitution. Y, but I don't think,

the constitution. Y, but I don't think, especially among conservatives, that it

especially among conservatives, that it is positive to use the constitution to

is positive to use the constitution to dismantle it. When we analyze the

dismantle it. When we analyze the original context, like you were saying

original context, like you were saying in in the late 19th century, our

in in the late 19th century, our immigration law was absolutely

immigration law was absolutely different. Including, you know, in

different. Including, you know, in respect with the Irish and Chinese

respect with the Irish and Chinese immigrants that were coming over, it was

immigrants that were coming over, it was absolutely different. Chang,

absolutely different. Chang, we had open borders, my friend. Some

we had open borders, my friend. Some people in this room would hate it. We

people in this room would hate it. We had open borders for half of American

had open borders for half of American history.

history. Well, that I don't think that's very

Well, that I don't think that's very that's very that's very true. It's 100%

that's very that's very true. It's 100% true.

true. Well, hold on. If you're comparing the

Well, hold on. If you're comparing the open borders, which I don't concede to,

open borders, which I don't concede to, but if you're comparing the open borders

but if you're comparing the open borders prior to like 1910 and prior to the

prior to like 1910 and prior to the heart seller act and you look at the

heart seller act and you look at the amount of immigration and who was coming

amount of immigration and who was coming over,

over, nice deflection amount is irrelevant. We

nice deflection amount is irrelevant. We did have an open absolutely relevant

did have an open absolutely relevant because the constitution like the

because the constitution like the founding father your argument is we had

founding father your argument is we had open borders fewer immigrants.

open borders fewer immigrants. I was about to answer.

I was about to answer. It's important to analyze the context

It's important to analyze the context wherein these laws and parts of the

wherein these laws and parts of the constitution arise. The original

constitution arise. The original founding fathers said the constitution

founding fathers said the constitution was made only for immoral and religious

was made only for immoral and religious people and is wholly inadequate to the

people and is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Which means the

government of any other. Which means the people that wrote this document

people that wrote this document understood that it would not be able to

understood that it would not be able to properly

properly super secular people. Let's just be

super secular people. Let's just be clear on that.

clear on that. Well, no, that's not true. They were

Well, no, that's not true. They were deist.

deist. No, the majority were deists.

No, the majority were deists. But they were secular. Secular doesn't

But they were secular. Secular doesn't mean atheist. You know what I mean?

mean atheist. You know what I mean? I understand that. But theist doesn't

I understand that. But theist doesn't mean secular or atheist. It means they

mean secular or atheist. It means they believe in a god but not a god. That's

believe in a god but not a god. That's about

about whether they're theist or theist. I said

whether they're theist or theist. I said they're secular. But secular means you

they're secular. But secular means you separate church and state.

separate church and state. Okay. Well, let's talk. We could even

Okay. Well, let's talk. We could even talk about that. That's a perfect

talk about that. That's a perfect example.

example. You're going to run out of your own time

You're going to run out of your own time making your argument which I haven't

making your argument which I haven't made so far.

made so far. I understand. But the separation of

I understand. But the separation of church and state is now completely

church and state is now completely differently understood than originally

differently understood than originally proposed. Thomas Jefferson who talks

proposed. Thomas Jefferson who talks about the wall of separation which

about the wall of separation which doesn't even exist in the constitution

doesn't even exist in the constitution understood it as a Supreme Court

understood it as a Supreme Court president as you well know.

president as you well know. Yeah. Sure. But the president of the

Yeah. Sure. But the president of the last 100 years where in the country has

last 100 years where in the country has been completely different from its

been completely different from its founding should not overrule the

founding should not overrule the original intent of the people who wrote

original intent of the people who wrote the document that you and I are both

the document that you and I are both citing. Okay.

citing. Okay. Which means

Which means but I don't but I'm not I'm not locked

but I don't but I'm not I'm not locked into what the people who write. We've

into what the people who write. We've had amendments to the constitution. You

had amendments to the constitution. You know that right?

know that right? I understand that. And this is our

I understand that. And this is our fundamental disagreement is that I I

fundamental disagreement is that I I don't believe

don't believe you think you can read the minds of

you think you can read the minds of people in the 1770s. That's not true.

people in the 1770s. That's not true. And and I'm stuck.

And and I'm stuck. I just I just believe this country ought

I just I just believe this country ought to be more like the country we

to be more like the country we originally had. And I don't think

originally had. And I don't think that's your opinion. You're entitled to

that's your opinion. You're entitled to I understand that.

I understand that. But they're a factual basis.

But they're a factual basis. Well, let me let me try to see what you

Well, let me let me try to see what you believe.

believe. Okay.

Okay. If we are voting on these constitutional

If we are voting on these constitutional amendments, if we are interpreting them

amendments, if we are interpreting them and our interpretation becomes

and our interpretation becomes absolutely let's say a 180 from what the

absolutely let's say a 180 from what the original intent of the authors of that

original intent of the authors of that document is,

document is, are you in favor of that?

are you in favor of that? I guess depends on the issue.

I guess depends on the issue. Okay. I would say no matter what.

Okay. I would say no matter what. So for example, take the second

So for example, take the second amendment which we kind of danced

amendment which we kind of danced around. It's not been but come up here

around. It's not been but come up here and there. You know the debate about the

and there. You know the debate about the second amendment is the fundamental

second amendment is the fundamental debate is one side says it's it's

debate is one side says it's it's limited and the other side said no no

limited and the other side said no no what they meant was the militias. They

what they meant was the militias. They didn't and they and they had musketss.

didn't and they and they had musketss. They didn't mean AR-15s, right? So we

They didn't mean AR-15s, right? So we could have that endless debate which I

could have that endless debate which I really don't care for about that. But to

really don't care for about that. But to come back to your point about the

come back to your point about the constitutional principles, the 14th

constitutional principles, the 14th amendment comes along in the 1860s. It's

amendment comes along in the 1860s. It's pretty old. It's not as old as America,

pretty old. It's not as old as America, but it comes along and it's been around

but it comes along and it's been around for 150 years. So if you want to get

for 150 years. So if you want to get away, it was around before 150 million

away, it was around before 150 million Americans.

Americans. And I'm saying it was around before the

And I'm saying it was around before the United States was even created. It's

United States was even created. It's part of ancient English common law. If

part of ancient English common law. If you're born in a place, you're a citizen

you're born in a place, you're a citizen of that place, unless you're a child of

of that place, unless you're a child of a foreign diplomat or on a Native

a foreign diplomat or on a Native American reservation.

American reservation. English English common law did not exist

English English common law did not exist simultaneously as millions of people

simultaneously as millions of people coming across the border in a year.

coming across the border in a year. Just to get to principles, your argument

Just to get to principles, your argument is numbers change everything because

is numbers change everything because we've got so many more people. Not

we've got so many more people. Not solely, but absolutely. Okay.

solely, but absolutely. Okay. The demog the demographics of your

The demog the demographics of your immigration.

immigration. Can I ask you a question? If you got rid

Can I ask you a question? If you got rid of if you got rid of the 14th amendment,

of if you got rid of the 14th amendment, what would be in its place?

what would be in its place? I think a citizenship test would be

I think a citizenship test would be fantastic. I wish um I think we could

fantastic. I wish um I think we could administer it in high school

administer it in high school to everyone or just the immigrants.

to everyone or just the immigrants. No, everybody.

No, everybody. And then if you fail it, you do you

And then if you fail it, you do you denaturalize white American people?

denaturalize white American people? Maybe you can't get a government job.

Maybe you can't get a government job. That dude,

That dude, I I think there's plenty of benefits

I I think there's plenty of benefits that the government offers people that

that the government offers people that you should not be uh able to to receive.

you should not be uh able to to receive. I'll tell you this, right? I I this is

I'll tell you this, right? I I this is this might sound bad and I think

this might sound bad and I think I don't think you people care for me

I don't think you people care for me anyway. So let me say something you

anyway. So let me say something you might not like.

might not like. Nobody would pass it.

Nobody would pass it. If you have a high school immigration

If you have a high school immigration citizenship test for everyone

citizenship test for everyone I think people will take citizenship

I think people will take citizenship more serious.

more serious. The immigrant kids are going to

The immigrant kids are going to outperform the white kids and you might

outperform the white kids and you might actually end up denaturalizing some of

actually end up denaturalizing some of the white kids and then people here will

the white kids and then people here will be really upset

be really upset and well hold on and and I like to be

and well hold on and and I like to be consistent about this. That's possible.

consistent about this. That's possible. But what I think it would do is it would

But what I think it would do is it would give everybody a larger sense of the

give everybody a larger sense of the importance of citizenship.

importance of citizenship. So you would say no one born in this

So you would say no one born in this country is a citizen. No one would

country is a citizen. No one would automatically no. Automatically no. I

automatically no. Automatically no. I think I think we could extend that. You

think I think we could extend that. You know, people who have a heritage in the

know, people who have a heritage in the country.

country. Where are they until they pass the test?

Where are they until they pass the test? Undocumented,

Undocumented, I suppose. Yeah. They they are not able

I suppose. Yeah. They they are not able to receive government benefits. They're

to receive government benefits. They're not able to receive government benefits.

not able to receive government benefits. They're not able to apply for these jobs

They're not able to apply for these jobs that

that are citizens.

are citizens. Okay. Well, hold on. This we're talking

Okay. Well, hold on. This we're talking here about the way that we would

here about the way that we would implement it. I'm

implement it. I'm pretty important. If you're trying to

pretty important. If you're trying to get rid of the 14th amendment, I'm going

get rid of the 14th amendment, I'm going to ask about the practicalities of it

to ask about the practicalities of it and Trump's doing it right.

and Trump's doing it right. Hold on. And I'm not going to be able to

Hold on. And I'm not going to be able to explain it to you in 10 minutes. But

explain it to you in 10 minutes. But what I can explain to you is that right

what I can explain to you is that right now in this country, we have a crisis of

now in this country, we have a crisis of people not Hold on. We're not

people not Hold on. We're not understanding what citizenship is. The

understanding what citizenship is. The way that you've referred to citizenship

way that you've referred to citizenship makes everybody who hasn't come to the

makes everybody who hasn't come to the United States an undocumented American

United States an undocumented American citizen until the time they come over

citizen until the time they come over here.

here. That's how a lot of countries are,

That's how a lot of countries are, right? You know that you know that

right? You know that you know that birthight citizenship is operated by

birthight citizenship is operated by multiple n democracies around the world.

multiple n democracies around the world. I know Trump lies and says we're the

I know Trump lies and says we're the only country that does it. He lies.

only country that does it. He lies. That's not true. Multiple countries.

That's not true. Multiple countries. You think it ought to be that way? Do

You think it ought to be that way? Do you think everybody in the world is an

you think everybody in the world is an undocumented American?

undocumented American? Hold on. Well, or undocumented Canadian

Hold on. Well, or undocumented Canadian or undocumented Brit, right? Or

or undocumented Brit, right? Or undocumented.

undocumented. Sure. Well, I'm an American, so I say

Sure. Well, I'm an American, so I say America. But yeah,

America. But yeah, but I'm saying, right, the principle is

but I'm saying, right, the principle is you immigrate. We have free movement

you immigrate. We have free movement people. I support free movement of

people. I support free movement of people around the world.

people around the world. But do you believe they're all

But do you believe they're all Are you Kim Jong-un? You think people

Are you Kim Jong-un? You think people should only stay in one country and

should only stay in one country and never leave and be blocked from leaving

never leave and be blocked from leaving their country? That's a very illiberal

their country? That's a very illiberal and conservative position.

and conservative position. I think there's a big libertarian big

I think there's a big libertarian big there's big room to move between being

there's big room to move between being Kim Jong-un and saying that

Kim Jong-un and saying that in practical terms if you I gave one

in practical terms if you I gave one side. I want to give the other. There's

side. I want to give the other. There's a big room to move between being Kim

a big room to move between being Kim Jong-un and saying that everybody in the

Jong-un and saying that everybody in the world is an American. They're just not

world is an American. They're just not on our soil yet. I think being an

on our soil yet. I think being an American that's a ridiculous statement,

American that's a ridiculous statement, right? Because everyone in the world is

right? Because everyone in the world is not heading to the United States of

not heading to the United States of America. Yeah. In fact, right now

America. Yeah. In fact, right now numbers of people coming in and

numbers of people coming in and dropping.

dropping. But the idea that you are supporting is

But the idea that you are supporting is that the moment you come to this soil

that the moment you come to this soil and that you're born here, you become an

and that you're born here, you become an American. And I

American. And I So I'm not saying the moment you come to

So I'm not saying the moment you come to this soil, you become an American. I

this soil, you become an American. I didn't. I had to do the test, right? I

didn't. I had to do the test, right? I had to do the naturalization process

had to do the naturalization process which is guaranteed by the 14th

which is guaranteed by the 14th amendment. But the 14th amendment also

amendment. But the 14th amendment also says if you're born here then you

says if you're born here then you automatically get it. And I'm not saying

automatically get it. And I'm not saying I think the problem is a hill I'm gonna

I think the problem is a hill I'm gonna die on.

die on. The problem we have

The problem we have instead we don't appreciate citizenship.

instead we don't appreciate citizenship. The problem is that when you talk about

The problem is that when you talk about immigration like we did before when we

immigration like we did before when we talked about everything before what were

talked about everything before what were we talking about? We were talking about

we talking about? We were talking about products. We weren't talking about

products. We weren't talking about practices or perceptions which is really

practices or perceptions which is really what immigration is about.

what immigration is about. Can I agree with you? We don't in this

Can I agree with you? We don't in this country value citizenship enough. I

country value citizenship enough. I think we should encourage people to have

think we should encourage people to have more civics lessons in schools,

more civics lessons in schools, understand American history and

understand American history and constitution much more. Here's what's

constitution much more. Here's what's the irony is I'm sitting in a room today

the irony is I'm sitting in a room today where I've met a bunch of people

where I've met a bunch of people claiming to be Native Americans who hate

claiming to be Native Americans who hate everything America stood for for

everything America stood for for centuries.

centuries. I think they stand much closer to the

I think they stand much closer to the America that we originally had. And I

America that we originally had. And I think that's a big disagree if there had

think that's a big disagree if there had any clue what that was like. And you

any clue what that was like. And you know things about that America,

know things about that America, but you've agreed to dismantling that

but you've agreed to dismantling that America as long as it's legal.

America as long as it's legal. You have. You're the person who came

You have. You're the person who came here and made your argument

here and made your argument taking away an amendment of the

taking away an amendment of the Constitution. I didn't. I said keep the

Constitution. I didn't. I said keep the Second Amendment.

Second Amendment. I'm an originalist. I think we should

I'm an originalist. I think we should interpret it the way it was probably

interpret it the way it was probably originally interpreted.

originally interpreted. All right, guys. That's time.

All right, guys. That's time. with your coach. Thank you very much,

with your coach. Thank you very much, man. Appreciate it.

man. Appreciate it. I thought it would be an interesting

I thought it would be an interesting exercise in trying to understand what

exercise in trying to understand what genuine farright conservative folks

genuine farright conservative folks think. And it was kind of disturbing to

think. And it was kind of disturbing to see that they think what I thought they

see that they think what I thought they think and they were happy to say it out

think and they were happy to say it out loud. I am disappointed that I had to

loud. I am disappointed that I had to sit across from people who believe in

sit across from people who believe in white genocide, who believe I'm not a

white genocide, who believe I'm not a citizen. Multiple people here said I

citizen. Multiple people here said I should be deported. One of them was even

should be deported. One of them was even the child of immigrants, which I found

the child of immigrants, which I found bizarre. Obviously, we were way

bizarre. Obviously, we were way outclassed. Like we're not uh

outclassed. Like we're not uh professional debaters. I don't think

professional debaters. I don't think anyone in this room was. Maybe one or

anyone in this room was. Maybe one or two people. And clearly Manny, he does

two people. And clearly Manny, he does this for a living, right? He's a

this for a living, right? He's a journalist. So he's really good at what

journalist. So he's really good at what he does.

he does. Hassan was pretty good at, you know,

Hassan was pretty good at, you know, taking cheap shots, trying to like, you

taking cheap shots, trying to like, you know, derail people from their from

know, derail people from their from their arguments, you know, trying to

their arguments, you know, trying to like pit me against, you know, some of

like pit me against, you know, some of the people that wouldn't like people of

the people that wouldn't like people of my color to be in the United States,

my color to be in the United States, which is irrelevant.

which is irrelevant. I think one person said as he walked

I think one person said as he walked off, you'll be the first to go. Uh which

off, you'll be the first to go. Uh which is ominous and racist. I think that was

is ominous and racist. I think that was a disheartening and particularly

a disheartening and particularly discouraging because it just felt like

discouraging because it just felt like it was fitting into a stereotype that

it was fitting into a stereotype that we're trying to fight against, which is

we're trying to fight against, which is like we actually have arguments. We can

like we actually have arguments. We can provide good reason and that rhetoric

provide good reason and that rhetoric just pushes that far away.

just pushes that far away. I am, I guess, a far-right Republican,

I am, I guess, a far-right Republican, but as I learned today, not as far right

but as I learned today, not as far right as I thought I was. You know, someone

as I thought I was. You know, someone gets up and they're just like, "Yeah, I

gets up and they're just like, "Yeah, I mean, I guess I just want to have like

mean, I guess I just want to have like autocracy forever and Christian

autocracy forever and Christian nationalism or just being like, yeah,

nationalism or just being like, yeah, I'm racist." And to me, that's very

I'm racist." And to me, that's very foreign of a concept. While I didn't,

foreign of a concept. While I didn't, you know, disagree with most of the

you know, disagree with most of the people in the circle, it did bother me

people in the circle, it did bother me at times, you know, to see them um say

at times, you know, to see them um say mean things, there's not really a reason

mean things, there's not really a reason to do that. But it also upset me when

to do that. But it also upset me when Medie said, you know, I'm not willing to

Medie said, you know, I'm not willing to debate with those people. Free speech

debate with those people. Free speech doesn't mean you need to give

doesn't mean you need to give credibility or oxygen or a platform to

credibility or oxygen or a platform to people who don't agree in human

people who don't agree in human equality.

equality. I I hear Medy's point about not giving

I I hear Medy's point about not giving them a platform, but the thing is, if

them a platform, but the thing is, if you stop giving them a platform, they

you stop giving them a platform, they don't just go away and change their

don't just go away and change their mind. And then you tell the rest of

mind. And then you tell the rest of society, no one exists who thinks like

society, no one exists who thinks like that. And that's not true.

that. And that's not true. I do like to debate people, even people

I do like to debate people, even people I disagree with. I try and avoid bad

I disagree with. I try and avoid bad faith folks. I think some of the folks

faith folks. I think some of the folks today were bad faith. You know, I'm

today were bad faith. You know, I'm anti-conservative, right? I don't

anti-conservative, right? I don't support conservative views on taxation.

support conservative views on taxation. I don't support conservative views on

I don't support conservative views on immigration. But the people here today

immigration. But the people here today were way beyond conservatives. This is

were way beyond conservatives. This is open authoritarianism. And this is what

open authoritarianism. And this is what is being normalized and mainstreamed in

is being normalized and mainstreamed in our country by people in power, by the

our country by people in power, by the media, by people who don't know any

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YouTube Transcript:1 Progressive vs 20 Far-Right Conservatives (ft. Mehdi Hasan)

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YouTube Transcript:
1 Progressive vs 20 Far-Right Conservatives (ft. Mehdi Hasan)