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A Class Divided (full documentary) | FRONTLINE
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27 years ago when civil rights leader
Martin Luther King jr. was assassinated
grief and frustration erupted in
America's cities and far away in Iowa
one third-grade teacher knew she had to
do something the shooting of Martin
Luther King could not just be talked
about and explained a way there was no
way to explain this too low third
graders in Riceville Iowa I knew that it
was time to deal with this in a concrete
way not just talk about it because we
had talked about racism since the first
day of school it was a daring experiment
in the prejudice
I watched wonderful thoughtful children
turn into can one teacher in one day
change the lives of her students forever tonight
tonight
a class divided autist 1984 a high
school reunion brings some 50 former
students to Riceville Iowa 11 of them
some with their spouses and children
arrived early for a special reunion with
their former third-grade teacher Jane Elliott
Elliott [Music]
[Music] [Laughter]
14 years earlier when they were students
in her third-grade classroom ABC News
filmed a two-day exercise for a
documentary the eye of the storm now at
their request they will see that film
again and relive the experience of her
my sweet this is a special week does
anybody know what it is national
Brotherhood week what's Brotherhood be
kind to your brothers treat everyone the
way you would like to be treated treat
everyone as though he was your brother
and is there anyone in this United
States that we do not treat as our
brothers yes black people who else in
absolutely the Indians and when you see
when many people see a black person or a
yellow person or a red person what do
they think look at the dumb people what
else do they think sometimes what kinds
of things do they say about black people
in a city many places in the
United States how are black people
treated how are indians treated how are
people who are of a different color than
we are they don't get anything in this
world why is that because they're
different color do you think you know
how I would feel to be judged by the
color of your skin
I don't do you think you do no I don't
think you'd know how that felt unless
you had been through it would you it
might be interesting to judge people
today by the color of their eyes would
you like to try this sounds like fun
doesn't it since I'm the teacher and I
have blue eyes I think maybe the
blue-eyed people should be on top the
first day I mean the blue-eyed people
are the better people in this room oh
yes they are mm-hmm all right people are
smarter than brown eyed people [Music]
[Music]
are you sure dad cried you know one day
you came to school and you told us that
he kicked you he dude do you think a
brings daddy's blue-eyed he's never
kicked him but Rex is dead
blue eyed he's never kicked him this is
a this is a fact blue eyed people are
better than brown eyed people are you
brown eyed or blue eyed hello why are
you shaking your head are you sure that
you're right why what makes you so sure
that you're right blue eyed people get 5
extra minutes of recess while the right
people have to stay in the brown eyed
people do not get to use the drinking
fountain you'll have to use the paper
cups you brown eyed people are not to
play with the blue eyed people on the
playground because you are not as good
as blue-eyed people well the brown eyed
people in this room today are going to
wear collars so that we can tell from a
distance what color your eyes are on
page 127 127 is everyone ready everyone
but Laurie
ready Laurie she's a brown-eyed you'll
begin to notice today that we spend a
great deal of time waiting for
brown-eyed people the yardsticks dog
well okay I don't see the yardstick to
you oh you think if the brown-eyed
people get out of hand that would be the
thing to use who goes first to lunch the
blue-eyed people
no brown-eyed people go back for seconds
blue-eyed people may go back for seconds
brown-eyed people do not run don't you
know that damn reason might take too much
much [Music]
and it seems like when we were down on
the bottom everything bad was happening
to us the way they treated you you felt
like you didn't even want to try to do
anything seem like mrs. Elliott was
taking our best friends away from us [Music]
what happened at recess for two of you
boys fighting John what happened John
yeah what's wrong with being called
bride it means that we're stupid wrong
like that
Oh same way as other people call black
people yeah that's the reason
you're hitting John did it help
did it stop him they make you feel
better inside mmm make you feel better
inside it make you feel better to call
him brown eyes why do you suppose you're
calling brown eyes Freddie 15
Seth the only reason he didn't call him
brown eyes yesterday he had brown eyes
yesterday didn't he get some pinkies
always this teasing no well he what were
you doing it for fun to be funny who are
you doing it to be mean I don't know
don't ask me did anyone laugh I watched
what had been marvelous cooperative
wonderful thoughtful children turn into
nasty vicious discriminating little
third graders in space of 15 minutes
yesterday I told you that brown-eyed
people aren't as good as blue-eyed
people that wasn't true I lied to you
yesterday the truth is that brown-eyed
people are better than blue-eyed people [Music]
[Music]
Russell where are your glasses
I forgot them you forgot them and what
Suzan ginder has brown eyes she didn't
forget her glasses
Russell ring has blue eyes and what
about his glasses he forgot them
yesterday we were visiting and Greg said
boy I like to hit my little sister as
hard as I can that's fun what does that
the brown-eyed people may take off their
collars and each of you may put your
the brown-eyed people get five extra
minutes of recess
you blue-eyed people are not allowed to
be on the playground equipment at any
time you blue-eyed people are not to
play with the brown-eyed people
brown-eyed people are better than
blue-eyed people they're smarter than
blue-eyed people and if you don't
believe it look at Brian do blue-eyed
people know how to sit in a chair very
sad very very sad who can tell me what
contraction should be in the first
sentence throw the board and write it
John come on let's do it again
loosen up up come on
that's better now do you know how to
make a W okay write the contraction for
we are now that's beautiful writing is
that better yeah
brown-eyed people learn fast don't they
boy I do with brown-eyed people learn
fast very good [Music]
Gregg what did you do with that cup will
you please go and get that cup and put
your name on it and keep it at your desk
blue-eyed people are wasteful okay it
might be time this morning I news
orton-gillingham phonics we used the
card pack and the children the
brown-eyed children were in the low
class the first day and it took them
five and a half minutes to get to the
card pack the second day it took them
two and a half minutes the only thing
that had changed was the fact that now
they were superior people couldn't you
get them yesterday oh and you couldn't
think as well with the collars on 4
minutes and 18 seconds I know how long
did it take you yesterday 3 minutes how
because I'm glue I there's nothing it's
not funny it's not fun it's not pleasant
this is a filthy nasty word called
discrimination we're treating people a
certain way because they are different
from the rest of us is that fair
no nothing fair about it we didn't say
this was going to be a Faraday did we
and it isn't it's a horrid day ready
what did you do people who are wearing
new colors now find out today prison
make your channel not up in the prison
you're throwing the key away should the
color of some other person's eyes have
anything to do with how you treat them
no all right then should the color of
their skin no should you judge people no
no I the color of their skin no you're
going to say that today and this week
and probably all the time you're in this
every time I asked that question no then
when you see a black man or an Indian or
someone walking down the street are you
gonna say does it make any difference
whether their skin is black or white or
yellow or red is that how you decide
whether people are good or bad what
makes people good or bad let's take
these collars off would you like to do
with them go ahead now you know a little
bit more than you knew at the beginning
do you know a little bit more than you
wanted to yeah this isn't an easy way to
learn this is it okay now let's all sit
down here together blue eyes and brown
eyes hey listen okay now we're back that
you have make any difference in the kind
of person you are does that feel like
being home again girls [Music]
[Music] [Applause]
[Applause] [Laughter]
[Laughter]
this was the third time Jane Elliott had
taught her lesson in discrimination the
first two years earlier was in April of
1968 on the day after Martin Luther King
was killed by one of my students came
into the room and said they shot a king
last night mrs. Elliott why'd they shoot
that King I knew the night before that
it was time to deal with this in a
concrete way not just talk about it
because we had talked about racism since
the first day of school but the shooting
of Martin Luther King who had been one
of our heroes of the month in February
could not just be talked about and
explained away there was no way to
explain this to low third graders in
Riceville Iowa as I listened to the
white male commentators on TV the night
before I was hearing things like who's
going to hold your people together as
they interviewed black leaders what are
they going to do who's going to control
your people as though this was these
people were subhuman and someone was
going to have to step in there and
control them they said things like when
we lost our leader
his widow helped to hold us together
who's going to hold them together and
the attitude was so arrogant and so
condescending and so ungodly that I
thought if white male adults react this
way what are my third graders going to
do how are they going to react to this
thing I was ironing the teepee we
studied an Indian unit we made a teepee
every year the first year the students
would make the teepee out of pieces of
sheet we'd sew it together and the next
year we decorate it with Indian symbols
I was ironing the previous year's teepee
getting it ready to be decorated the
next day and I thought of what we had
done with the Indians we haven't made
much progress in these 200-300 years and
I thought this is the time now to teach
them really what the Sioux Indian prayer
that says oh great spirit keep me from
ever judging a man until I have walked
in his moccasins really means and for
the next day I knew that my children
were going to walk in someone else's
moccasins for a day
like it or lump but they were going to
have to walk in someone else's moccasins
I decided at that point that it was time
to try the eye color thing which I had
thought about men
many times but had never used so the
next day I introduced an eye color
exercise in my classroom and split the
class according to eye color and
immediately created a microcosm of
society in a third grade classroom
Riceville hasn't changed much in the 17
years since then it's still a small
farming community surrounded by corn
fields its population is still under a
thousand and it's still all white and
all Christian and though Jane Elliott
has continued to teach her a lesson in
discrimination there's been little
outward local reaction no objections
from school authorities or the parents
of the 300 odd students who have by now
been through it the reunion of her
former third graders was Jane Elliot's
first chance to find out how much of her
lessons her students had retained Raven
why I wanna know why you were so eager
to discriminate against the rest of
these kids yeah
at the end of the day I thought the
miserable little Nazi really I just I
couldn't stand you it felt tremendously
evil you could all your inhibitions were
gone and no matter if they were my
friends or not any pent-up hostilities
or aggressions that these kids had ever
caused you you had a chance to get it
all out
it felt like I was a king like happy you
know and you did it all day yeah how did
you feel when you were the out-group boy
that day after we went home
who gonna talk about hating somebody it
was there you hated me yeah of what you
were putting us through nobody likes to
be looked down upon nobody likes to be
hated teased or discriminated against
and it just boggles up inside of you you
you just get so mad where you're just
angry or was there more than that
I felt demoralized humiliated is the
learning worth the agony yeah it made
everything a lot different than what it
was you uh we was a lot better family
all together even in our houses we was
probably because it it was hard on you
when you have your best friend one day
and then he's your enemy the next it
brings it out real real quick in you I
don't know some of the remarks were the
kinds of things I would have wished I
could have programmed into them if I had
been able to program them they're the
things I would have wanted them to say
some of the things were just
mind-blowing you know you hear these
people talking about you know different
people how they're you know me
difference and they'd like to have a
mother country wish they'd go back to
Africa you know and stuff sometimes I
just wish I had that caller in my pocket
I could whip it out and put it on and
say wear this and put your put yourself
in their place I wish they would go what
I went over you know do what I went
through we was at a softball game a
couple weekends ago and there was a
black you know I really and we hugged
each other and everything and some
people really look just like what are
you doing with him you know and you just
get this Bernie feeling insatiable let
it out
and put them through what we went
through to find out they're not any
different myself sometimes when I see
some people together and I see how they
act you know I think well that's black
and then right in the next second don't
even finish the thought I'm saying well
I've seen whites do it I've seen other
people do it it's not just the blacks
it's everyone acts differently it's just
the different color is what hits you
first and then later as I said I only
have finished that thought before I
remember back when I was like that and I
remember not you know everyone acts the
same way it's just your way of thinking
is the difference like one of my
grandparents just somebody and they
started talking about old times and they
say the Japs and all this and that and they
they
start you know holding that against them
I think how'd you like to have been them
Japanese Americans get sworn into this
camp just because they happened to be
part Japanese you know I I just calm
down and think about it but when they
get older they set in their ways and
they're not gonna change when you get
older I'll be set in my ways but they're
different than that way when fellas
absolutely enthralled Sandi dolmens
statements that when my son comes home
with the word and the other
things that he hears downtown I say to
him listen that isn't the way we judge
people you don't judge people by how
they look you judge them by what's on
their inside not their outside I'm glad
that she's teaching him not to hate
because even though he does hear this
from the other people he if he goes home
anything's on mom and diet dad like the
black people I'm gonna like him too so I
don't think he's gonna pick nothing bad
about it you chose your husband well he
chose me taken you know they listened a
lot of other people too so they're gonna
end up kind of confused over it yeah
kind of person you kids are or is he
going to be the kind who judge people
whether well he'll know right somewhat
right from wrong the ideas he won't be
judging him by their color but he won't
know what we know fully having been
through it
he won't learn collar the prejudice
Piermont dollar he won't look prejudice
first handed yeah
they don't learn to be prejudiced from
us I mean they won't learn to
discriminate between people from us they
might he might hear from others but
never from us okay what's it like to be
married to somebody like that and I was
gonna marry Sheila I knew it for my
future that I was going into the
military at first I thought is she gonna
be able to handle being with all the
different nationalities
and then I read the storm read the book
a class divided the class divided before
we got married and before I joined the
army and I said hey she's not gonna have
any problems should every should every
child have the exercise or should every
teacher I think every school ought to
implement something like this program in
their in their early stages of education
if Jane Elliot's lesson in
discrimination changed the way these
young people feel about discrimination
and racism it also had a totally
unexpected result the second year I did
this exercise I gave little spelling
tests math tests reading tests two weeks
before the exercise each day of the
exercise in two weeks later and almost
without exception the students scores go
up on the day they're on the top down on
the day they're on the bottom and then
maintain a higher level for the rest of
the year after they've been through the
exercise we sent some of those tests to
Stanford University to the psychology
department and they did a sort of an
informal review of them and they said
that what's happening here is kids
academic ability is being changed in a
24 hour period and that isn't possible
but it's happening something very
strange is happening to these children
because suddenly they're finding out how
really great they are and they are
responding to what they know now they're
able to do and it has happened
consistently with third graders the film
made of Jane Elliott's third graders in
1970 has been widely used with students
and teachers and by government business
and labor organizations concerned about
human relations perhaps the most unusual
use of it is here at Green Haven
Correctional Facility a maximum-security
[Music]
here in a sociology course taught by
Professor Dewayne W Smith of Dutchess
Community College is almost exclusively
black and Hispanic classes have been
seeing the film for more than 10 years
what I'd like to do is introduce the
subject of prejudice and discrimination
through this film called the eye of the storm
[Applause] [Music]
[Music]
Sandra and her brown-eyed friends didn't
like that day but did you think the
children by this process really learned
the meaning of the discrimination most
of the children before the film started
they had played and lived together in harmony
harmony
and certain action of coming from the
teacher and seeing the teacher has an
authoritarian figure and someone to
respect they accepted the views that was
being given to him but I think in at the
end of the lesson they would they could
clearly see that prejudices and other
forms of discrimination are things that
people build within their minds and
they're not actually actual physical
barriers that say yo you can't cross the
street the one kid I could really agree
with was at recess it was a brown-eyed
kid he had this inner turmoil against
this feeling of being divided or
prejudiced against where he would hit
another kid that he is known for so many
years in the gut whether he also stated
that it didn't help any so that
automatically should be a lesson to
every adult in the world violence
doesn't open
and you know this is a film that I hope
my children good to see unlike New York
Iowa is 98% white anglo-saxon yet even
here minority groups account for more
than 20% of the prison population to
make sure its prison system employees
are sensitive to the concerns of this
large minority the Iowa Department of
Corrections last fall hired Jane Elliott
to give her lesson to some of them the
group which included prison guards and
parole officers was told only that it
would be attending a day-long workshop
David Stokes buried most of our training
you go to people give you information
and you learn that way Lou I when I
first came with the sign up and such and
and got put in the group I didn't know
when I start seeing the signs around you
know brown eyes only in such I figured
they were the better group because they
had a lot of spaces available and and
they were done for the blue eyes so when
I got put in the blue eyes group and put
the collar on and I I knew well then I
was going to be in the deprived coop
again okay now you can stay in this area
the workshop was supposed to begin at
9:00 they took the brown eyes in about
9:00 and then left us standing in the
hall but I'd literally stood because
there weren't enough chairs and I didn't
know whether or not I'd wanted to fight
to take a chair down it and know if
somebody'd come and take the chair away
from me if I did while David Stokes
Barry and the other blue-eyed people
waited inside the meeting room Jane
Elliott prepared the brown-eyed people
for what was going to happen
now this is not something I can do alone
this exercise won't work without your
cooperation blue eyed people aren't
allowed to smoke blue eyed people aren't
allowed to sit in these empty chairs
do not let a blue-eyed person sitting
next to you you know you can't trust
them and besides which they don't smell
good everybody knows that about
blue-eyed people you don't know what you
can catch from a blue-eyed person by
9:20 I felt someone tagging
and I'm stuck out here for 20 minutes
standing waiting I still say we always
see what kind of reaction we'd get by
everyone just simply going in no one
wants to do opposed and by all senior
song we shall overcome I need to have
you keep it down I don't how many times
I need to give that instruction but you
need to keep it down so you don't bother
the people in the little workshop mm-hmm
I was pretty well ticked off by the time
we got taken in their home person
already pointed at your own feet have
it would be to your advantage in the
future people if you'd get to meetings
on time it would also be to your
advantage if you'd put your gum away put
your gum away you want to get paid for
today well then stay but put your gum
away I'm sure that you are inventive
enough to find a place for the gum now
I'd like for you to notice where she put
her gum you have this problem with
blue-eyed people you gives them give
them something decent and they just
wreck it you'll also notice that
blue-eyed people spend a lot of time
playing look at me see how cute I am I
can be funny I can make a joke of this
this is amusing I'm amused by this
another thing that is obvious about
blue-eyed people is that they're poor
listeners the first thing you have to do
when you get when you're teaching in a
segregated situation when you're working
in a segregated situation is teach the
listening skills the listening skills
are number one good listeners have quiet
hands feet and miles everyone needs to
write these down I'd like for you to
look at the man in the back in the black
jacket the game we're playing is playing
it cool this is a favorite blue eyed
game playing it cool nobody can bother
me man
I can handle this I don't have to do
this I'm gonna ignore this whole thing
number two good listeners keep their
take it you don't have a pencil
you're you perhaps you could borrow one
from one of your neighbors sir I realize
that you feel that you don't need to
write it down but whether or not you
write it down perhaps you could remember
it good listeners have quiet hands feet
and miles do you know what that means
I'm not sure I believe that
do you want me to explain it to you ok
I'll get a pencil and write this down directly
directly
look blue-eyed people all many of you
have pencils well one of you please lend
him a pencil or don't you trust me which
I can understand from the last 10
minutes what have you observed about
blue-eyed people you lie people are very
stubborn very self-centered and wish to
control as much of their surrounding as
possible people that wise I mean very
inconsiderate people I don't even know
what you're having here in the first
place we have them here because we are
required to have them here this is one
of the things you have to put up with
number three good listeners listen from
okay good listeners decide to learn
something and this is the thing you'll
have the most difficulty with with
relied people they decide not to learn
something some of you have had trouble
with blue-eyed people in your home
environment some of you have had trouble
with blue-eyed people in your workplace
does anybody have an example of that
that they'd like to talk about anyone
two nephews ones blue eye and one brown
eye and the blue eye one that King never
cleans his room and he's real lazy and
the brown you know he doesn't seem to
have a lot of energy the blue eye one
but the brown eye one he's draw outgoing
and he plays in sports and then he's
pretty good at it you know he just seems
like a better kid so if I have kids I
hope they have brown eyes you are you
married no I think it's a good thing you
don't have kids in it right well you
will know what to do when it's when you
choose a mate right would you like to
read that first listening skill to me
have we got on that paper yet oh why is that
that
I am the borrow the pencil to write it
down as yet how do you think it's
unnecessary at this particular point yes
I do why
well I have it in my head for the most
part they're a base up there for it
isn't their friend do you suppose you
could tell me what it is it had
something to do with keeping your hands
and feet still that's something to do
with that I find it interesting that
you're amused by our having to stand
here and wait for this man to do
something that everybody else has
already done I find that highly
interesting stupid but interesting if if
you are in a situation where someone is
constantly constantly refusing to do
what the people in authority ask them to
do what do you know about them what do
you know about that person well I think
it's a game with them attention has it
gained anything for this gentleman
disrespected from I think for the
brown-eyed people has it proven anything
to brown-eyed people yeah this is a
typical trait of a blue-eyed person I
read the second one yeah I don't have
the second one can I read it off right I
don't have the second one either you
have you are keeping it in your head
what happened to that plan just them
just the first one I had in my head not
this the other three aren't important
well they're probably more important but
not important enough for you to write
down right well they're important I
should have written them down most
probably most probably does anybody back
there knows you don't have it written
down either I want you to take a look at
now we need to hear the good listening
skills from you I don't want you to
think that I'm badgering you boys but on
the other hand on the other hand you're
here to learn something and if you learn
nothing else today it would be nice if
you would learn the listening skills
what do you know now about brown-eyed
people that you didn't know before you
about blue-eyed people that you didn't
know before you came in here finding I'm
gonna have to explain things a bit more
explicitly to a blue-eyed person that I
went to a brown that person how many
times did I have to repeat the listening
skills for Roger brother Rogers having a
rough time two days man it was about six
seven different times you think that's
amusing Roger apparently somewhat
amusing as part of the lesson the
corrections department employees took a
written test all right I need these
names and the scores are just initials
they are just an initial no last name no names
names
how many eleven in Jordan or Charles I'm
not sure thank you sir tell me the name again
again
Jordan you can't read the name no I
what's your name my name is chambers
first name Janine and what was her score
thanks you Riley with a 5e e Riley
well a Riley please stand you know it's
what you do to the image of blues with
your behavior is unfortunate what you
three people do to the image of women
with your behavior really makes me angry
the fact that you do this kind of thing
and this kind of sloppy work reflects
badly on women I resent that ee yes
ma'am I'd really appreciate it if you'd
call us by name when you say you three
people we don't know who you're speaking
to it could be anyone here my dear if
you wanted me to call you by name you to
put your name on your paper it's on my
it was to be on your paper you didn't
see my papers I didn't get your name
either because it wasn't on your paper
all right now how can one call you by
your name if you don't care enough about
your name to put it on your paper don't
expect me to worry about it don't expect
me to worry about it if you don't put it
on your paper don't sit here and say my
name is important to me after you have
just deliberately not put it on your
paper you're being totally unrealistic
important to me I remember saying I like
to know who you're speaking to you when
you say you three then what should you
do ask you to use my name which I did
and where should your name of the bin
right where it is on your paper and on
my birth certificate is it on your paper
no ma'am where'd you get a birth
certificate same place you got out of a
slot machine same as you did lady I
think you're probably right about your
own at least I know who my parents are ma'am
ma'am
being rude yes she's being inconsiderate
very being uncooperative very being
insulted yes are all those the things
that we've accused blue-eyed people of
being yes
is she proving that we're right yes does
anyone have any comments to make at this
point do you feel that there are
important blue-eyed people there are
exceptions to every rule and what are
those exceptions there are a few
important blue eyed people very few you
should think that you're one of them
no that is why are you up there then I'm
blue eyed the difference between you and
me is I have a brown eyed husband and
brown eyed offspring I've learned how to
behave in a brown-eyed society and when
you can act brown enough then you too
can be where I am I wouldn't be where
you are are you certain
absolutely how'd you like where you are
I love where I am you liked it so much
that you don't even identify your self
on your paper I don't need to lady her
using the term lady where I'm concerned
what you think she's trying to do is it
ignorant or is it deliberately insulting
I wouldn't say was deliberately
insulting if it's ignorance she needs to
be taught that to many of us the word
lady is a pejorative I don't appreciate it
it
it is it's a put-down and it's used to
keep women in their place
I'm sorry calling it by a correct name
after this I won't be kind that was
kindness on your part yes then you are
sure come when a lady is a kindness then
your problem is ignorant you shouldn't
call me lady anytime you like I wouldn't
do that to you no I really wouldn't I I
think that and that's part of the
problem is a total lack of awareness and
what sexism amounts to and how much you
contribute to the sexism that keeps you
where you are it's not like where I am lady
get up with this whole bunch of garbage
just brown-eyed people's are no
different than we are I hate to tell
them that they have these false
delusions and such are they being
erected no you trained them very well I
think that's what they did with the
stormtroopers in Germany also you guys
do a real good job sitting where do I
think I am the Jews after a break for
lunch Jane Elliott helped the
corrections department employees analyze
what had happened did you learn anything
this morning I was powerless there was a
sense of hopelessness I was angry I
wanted to speak up and yet I at times I
knew if I spoke up I'll be back in a
powerless situation I'd be attacked a
sense of hopelessness had you had you
experienced that before I realized this
morning that there are very few times in
my life that I've ever been
discriminated against very few and you
are this uncomfortable in an hour and a
half I was amazed at how uncomfortable I
was in the first 15 minutes can you
empathize it all then with blacks
minority group members in this country
I'm hoping better than before we tried
to argue with you you you would use just
the mere argument as the reason for us
being lesser than the brown-eyed folks
you know you couldn't win don't we do
that every day I think I think some do
yeah but I would hope that I never get
so unreasonable I died
you know the statements you were making
were groundless and such and yet we
couldn't argue with them because if we
argued then we were argumentative and
you know not listening and and getting
out of our place and all that stuff and
and that was frustrating to me and then
frustrating to me was the other
little green tags who are sitting on
their hands my group here was I didn't
think the boisterous enough in our
opposition to the whole thing why didn't
you people support one another why
didn't the blue-eyed people who I people
on this side just sat there and let's
face it you're covered your asses right
why did you just sit there I think that
symptomatic of the problem as a whole we
see that you know in society in general
you see a few people who are making a
lot of noise and the rest of people
sitting back waiting to see what they're
going to do okay as long as I was
picking on you to him I was leaving you
alone right right I'd say a lot of
people accept that they let have a few
people do their fighting form and they
stand back and and if this person's
gonna win then they'll get on this side
if that person's not gonna win they'll
stay back over here you know that's just
how it works if you were in a real
situation where you had to do something
about racism well just would you stand
up and be counted
what I would do I don't know it would
depend on the existing I couldn't go
home tonight and face my kids if I
didn't how did you brown eyed people
feel while this was going on did you
have the right color eyes absolutely I
really understood at least I felt that I
understood what it was like to be in the
minority why are you angry first of all
because it was unreasonable secondly
because I felt discriminated against
thirdly I think that all of us everyone
in this room has dealt with
discrimination on both sides you don't
have to be black or Jewish or Mexican or
anything else to have felt
discrimination in your life and as you
become an adult you learn to deal with
those feelings within yourself you learn
to handle those and when you feel
yourself in a situation that you can't
get out of which we couldn't we were a
captive audience and it was not a normal
situation because normally aren't
badgered what if you had to spend the
rest of your life this way
I don't know how to answer that you
don't wake up every morning knowing that
you're different you wake up as a white
woman who is going to her job at 8
o'clock whatever where a black person is
going to wake up knowing for a minute
they get up out of the bed and look in
the mirror they're black and they have
to deal with the problems they've had to
deal with ever since they were young and
realize that I am different and I have
to deal with life differently things are
different for me and I don't think you
can really say that you have felt maybe
it felt some sort of discrimination but
you haven't felt what it is like for a
black woman to go through the daily
experiences of arguing and saying listen
to me my point of view is good you know
what I have to offer here is good and no
one wants to listen because white is
right that's the way things are I think
the necessity for this exercise is a
crime no I don't want to see it used
more widely I want to see it's the
necessity for it wiped out and I think
if educators were determined that we
could be very instrumental in wiping out
the necessity for this exercise but I
want to see something used I'd like to
see this exercise used with all teachers
all administrators but certainly not
with all students unless unless it's
done by people who are doing it for the
right reasons and in the white right way
I think you could damage a child with
this exercise very very easily and I
would never suggest that everybody
should use it I think you could have
training classes for teachers bring them
in put them through the thing explain
what happened do the debriefing and then
practice doing this until teachers until
a group of teachers were able to do it
on their own and I'd that teachers are
not disabled learners they could learn
to do this obviously if I can do it most
anyone can do it it doesn't take a super
teacher to do this exercise what began
in a third-grade classroom has spread
from students to teachers to corrections
officers at the center is still a single
teacher determined to inoculate her
students both young and old
against the virus of bigotry after you
do this exercise when the debriefing
starts when the pain is over and you're
all back together and you're all one
again you find out how society could be
if we really believed all this stuff
that we preach if we really acted that
way you can feel as good about one
another's those kids feel about one
another after this exercise is over you
create instant cousins I thought maybe
that lasted just while they were in my
classroom because of my superior
influence but indeed these kids still
feel that way about one another they
said yesterday over and over the remark
was made we're kind of like a family now
they found out how to hurt one another
and they found out how it feels to be
hurt in that way and they refused to
hurt one another that way again and they
said we're kind of like a family now and
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