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Examples of Christophanies: How to find Jesus in the Old Testament pt 5 | Mike Winger | YouTubeToText
YouTube Transcript: Examples of Christophanies: How to find Jesus in the Old Testament pt 5
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Summary
Core Theme
This content explores the concept of "Christophanies" or pre-incarnate appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament, arguing that Jesus is not only foreshadowed through types and prophecies but also directly present in certain Old Testament narratives.
in our ongoing series looking at how to
find Jesus in the Old Testament we're
usually looking at pictures and types of
Christ but today it's it's a little bit
different today's a little different
we'll get back onto pictures next time
but today we're gonna look at Jesus in
the Old Testament in a more literal way
like Jesus in the Old Testament so we're
talking about like a Christ Stephanie or
a theophany that all I will say I'm
gonna suggest this I have reasons to
think is Christ in the Old Testament a
pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus and if
you have questions about how that could
be that would be last week's video or
last last times message and I'll put a
link in the video description on that
for anybody who needs it some of these
passages are more clear than others and
I'm gonna kind of showcase that tonight
as we go through different passages I'll
be like this one seems pretty clearly
this is a theophany God definitely
appears here I'm not sure we have some
clues but could go either way so I I
just want us to learn the ability to
evaluate the text and not overstate our
position and kind of have like sort of a
conservative approach to how we get our
theology and we don't have to agree on
this and if you guys disagree with me on
these things and hopefully you've
learned this by now Sunday night it's
like I not only am not bothered if you
disagree with me I'm actually interested
in hearing why and hearing what your
opinion is this is a healthy thing that
we have core issues we hold to and we do
we do agree on these and then we have a
lot of other things we can discuss and
go hmmm I wonder about that and disagree
and it's a healthy good thing for us so
John 12 is what we're gonna begin this
is the first well you're like John 12 is
Jesus in the Old Testament yes but hold
on we'll get there John is gonna give us
Jesus in the Old Testament so we have
here the best case for Jesus in the Old
Testament because it's New Testament
divinely inspired commentary on the Old
Testament so we know this is what God
intends for us to get out of the text so
in John 12 37 it says though he had done
so many signs before them Jesus had done
all these signs they still did not
believe in him so that the word spoken
by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled
Lord here's the quote from Isaiah Lord
who has believed what he heard from us
and to whom
has the arm of the Lord been revealed
therefore they could not believe for
again Isaiah said he has blinded their
eyes and hardened their heart lest they
see with their eyes and understand with
her heart in turn and I would heal them
Isaiah said these things because he saw
his glory and spoke of him okay there's
there's a lot going on here and and
because of that we normally would spend
our time going they couldn't understand
he blinded them what do we mean by that
we'll have a whole teaching on how and
why God hardens hearts so we're gonna
focus instead on this question whose
glory did Isaiah see based on the
commentary of John like who did Isaiah
see did Isaiah see Jesus because that's
what's implied with John it's Jesus does
these miracles and then the word of
Isaiah is fulfilled who's believed the
report right because Isaiah saw his
glory and spoke of him this is this it
seems clear in John 12 the person Isaiah
saw is Jesus so let's look at the
passages of Isaiah that are actually
quoted the first ones Isaiah 53 verse 1
and that's all just read it to you who
has believed what he's heard from us and
whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed
revealed
that's isaiah 53:1 that's really
interesting because that is probably the
messianic heart of Isaiah right there
this is the Isaiah passage that deals
with the suffering Messiah who will
suffer in our place for our sins I mean
this is like a heavy the amazing thing
about Isaiah 53 is it's like a heavy
theological statement about the meaning
and the messenger not only what he would
do but why he would do it like for our
sins you know by His stripes we are
healed all we like sheep have gone
astray and the Lord has laid upon him
our iniquities so this is a really deep
theological statement this is like deep
New Testament you know teaching about
how we're saved by Jesus yet here it is
in Isaiah 53 so that's the first one
that's quoted but the next one that's
what we're gonna focus on is isaiah 6:10
because john quoted two times from
isaiah once from isaiah 53 and once from
isaiah 6:10 so here's the isaiah 6:10
quote make the heart of this people dull
and their ears heavy and blind their
eyes lest they see with their eyes and
with their ears and understand with
their hearts and turn and be healed
that's isaiah 6:10 okay so here's the
pieces of the puzzle we're so far trying
to figure out isaiah supposedly saw the
glory of jesus according to john john
quotes two passages that we could look
at to go did isaiah see jesus in one of
these passages well there's the
suffering Messiah Isaiah 53 passage but
we don't we don't have anything about
Isaiah seeing glory or seeing God in
this passage then there's the Isaiah six
passage and that's all about Isaiah
seeing God so when did Isaiah have a
vision of glory
well that's Isaiah 6 so we're now gonna
read Isaiah 6 with this in mind who did
Isaiah see
okay Isaiah 6 verse 1 in the year that
King Uzziah died I saw the Lord
that would be Yahweh this is he saw
Yahweh this is God sitting upon a throne
high and lifted up and the Train of his
robe filled the temple above him stood
Seraphim each had six wings with two he
covered his face and with two he covered
his feet and with two he flew and one
called to another and said holy holy
holy is the Lord of hosts the whole
earth is full of his glory so we have we
have two keys here
Isaiah sees God and sees God's glory
keep that in mind and in verse 4 and the
foundations of the thresholds shook at
the voice of him who called and the
house was filled with smoke and I said
woe is me for I am lost for I am a man
of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst
of a people of unclean lips for quote my
eyes have seen the king the Lord of
Hosts Yahweh of hosts he's seen God then
one of the Seraphim flew to me having in
his hand in his hand a burning coal that
he had taken with tongs from the altar
and he touched my mouth and so an altar
is where sacrifices take place and so
the the burning coals in my view would
be this is where the drippings of the
sacrifice come down onto the coals and
the coals are burning the sacrifice so
they're connected to the sacrifice and
then he's touched and you're gonna be
okay because this coal has touched your
lips what's interesting is
he's having a vision of God in heaven
but the sacrifices took place on earth
right there's only one sacrifice said to
have been offered in heaven and that was
Jesus and the New Testament tells us he
went into the Holy of Holies and offered
himself once for all just kind of a cool
little thing that we see in the text
there when you tie all the scriptures together
together
so he's touch with the coals with the
coal and he's gonna be okay and verse 7
and he touched my mouth and said Behold
this has touched your lips your guilt is
taken away and your sin atoned for and I
heard the voice of the Lord saying whom
shall I send and who will go for us then
I said Here I am sin me and he said go
and say to this people keep on hearing
but do not understand keep on seeing but
do not perceive and here's the quote in
John make the heart of this people dull
and their ears heavy and blind their
eyes lest they see with their eyes and
hear with their ears and understand with
their hearts and turn and be healed so
there's no other place in the Book of
Isaiah that's like this there's no other
time in the 66 chapters of Isaiah where
as Isaiah sees visually sees God sees
Yahweh and he sees his glory the crazy
thing is in the if you were asked this
question who did Isaiah see you'd be
like Yahweh right he saw god but john
interprets this passage and says Isaiah
saw Jesus I'm saying that Isaiah 6 is
Jesus in the Old Testament because if
you as a Christian think well if it's
Yahweh it's not Jesus then you don't
understand theology Jesus is Yahweh
that's that's the biblical teaching on
this and this is what we're getting out
of John so who did I J Isaiah see he saw
Jesus he saw Yahweh so this I think
could be called a Christ Stephanie and
he comes in glory and this is not some
humble manifestation I mean that was the
cross that was this was in his
incarnation Christ came humbly here he's
just revealing God's revealing himself
to us it's not coming in a bodily form
in a actual human body that's like a
real birth steaming body that will die
that's got all of the connection to Adam
and genealogy and stuff no no it's it's
something else sometimes I think we
might make it hard to identify Jesus in
the Old Testament because we kind of
artificially separate Jesus from Yahweh
and our heads and because we're just
struggling to under
in the Trinity which is I understand
that I understand the struggle to
understand the concepts in the doctrine
of the Trinity but there's no reason to
separate Jesus from Yahweh in fact the
Bible does quite the opposite
quite the opposite so let's look now at
Genesis chapter 3 here's a different one
we're gonna survey several of these
today these theophany type passages
Genesis chapter 3 in Genesis 3 with
what's already happened is Adam and Eve
have been created there in the Garden
Eve and Adam Eve in particular was
tempted deceived Adam tempted as well
but chose willingly the ate of the fruit
and now in Genesis 3 verse 8 we pick up
the story and it says and they heard the
sound of the Lord God walking in the
garden in the cool of the day and the
man and his wife hid themselves from the
presence of the Lord God among the trees
of the garden but the Lord God called to
the man and said to him where are you
and he said I heard the sound of you in
the garden and I was afraid because of
it because I was naked and I hid myself
and then they continued to have a
conversation you know how did you know
did you eat up the fruit and all this
and the curse happens and everything
there's three things that to me in this
passage indicate this is more than just
an anthropomorphism anthropomorphism is
like saying God's hand is outstretched
to you like I'm not literally thinking
there's this hand that's stretched out
to me there's a scripture that says that
heaven is his foot or earth is his
footstool heavens is throne I don't
actually think I was resting his feet
upon the earth this is picturesque
language there's there's the one the
heat the universe is the span is he
spans the universe with his hands spans
the heaven with his hands like are we
saying that his hand is exactly you know
how billions this many billions of
light-years across like is that what
we're saying no we're not if this is
obviously picturesque language
anthropomorphism were we're using human
terms to discuss God that's that's right
but but this story in Genesis 3 has
characteristics that tells us it really
can't be that it can't be just
picturesque language let me give you
three reasons one it says that God was
walking in the garden in the cool of the
day right they heard the sound of the
Lord God walking in the garden in the
cool of the day this is just too
descriptive to merely be they heard this
that they you know
the Lord God came to them that would be
could be anything right but but this is
he's walking that's the first reason the
description is too detailed he's said to
be walking in the garden in the cool of
the day the second thing is this Adam
heard it that's what we get right in
verse 8 and again in verse 10 they heard
the sound and then Adam says I heard the
sound of you in the garden so we're
saying that that the thing that God was
doing traveling in the garden somehow it
was making an audible noise that they
heard so he had a localized presence of
some kind he was doing an activity that
was similar to walking he was heard this
this is more and then Adam what does he
do he hides he hides ok so this means
that God again it was a there was some
sort of localized presence of God and he
came in a form that was walking made
noise Adam hides to avoid him this is
obviously more than anthropomorphism
something more is going on here at least
that's my opinion my conclusion is this
God was somehow present in something
like a physical human type of form or
something that could walk I would say
this is a theophany
we can we can probably agree this is a
theophany here now I would be inclined
to say it's a cry Stephanie for reasons
I actually shared last time but
basically Jesus says this no one's ever
seen the father but but I've been
revealing him and the phrases it's John
1:18 but the phrasing of it is really
interesting because it's it could easily
be applied to Jesus on the earth but it
could also be applied to past tense that
this is how God's being has been
revealed and this explains the issue of
how could no one see God yet these
people who say oh I've seen God I'm
gonna die well Jesus is the answer I
think to that question so let's look at
another one so I can't answer all the
questions on these but I think are
interesting and I think that a non
theophany definite you know
interpretation doesn't exactly work with
the text
alright so Genesis 18 this has a really
interesting theophany lot more details
in this one so a lot more details and it
starts to get I remember the first time
I studied this on my own I was like oh
wait oh it was like I felt like Sherlock
Holmes you know that except like the
Bible version
is train or you're like putting the
pieces together and going this is this
is really really interesting and neat at
some point in your Christian life you
found maybe maybe right away but you
found that the Bible is as good as
you're allowed as you're gonna allow it
to be like as much as you'll put into it
and study it and dig into it it'll all
be there so Genesis 18 verse 1 it says
and the Lord appeared to him
this is Yahweh right Yahweh appears and
the him is Abraham that's the context
the Lord appeared to him remember this
because I'll mention this later who is
it that appeared to Abraham yeah Yahweh
right God appears to Abraham but look at
how it describes the appearance so he
appears to Abraham and he even know
we're by the Oaks of Mamre as he sat at
the door of his tent in the heat of the
day he lifted up his eyes and looked and
behold three men were standing in front
of him already it's very interesting
right Yahweh appears Abraham looks at
what does he see does it say Yahweh no
he's three men are standing in front of
him now I'm gonna say this one of these
men is Yahweh and the other two are
angels and they're not Yahweh I don't
think this is the Trinity this isn't
father son spirit that would fit really
well with Mormon theology because they
see all of them as having physical
bodies but that's not what today's about
so that that's not what's happening here
two of these are angels one is Yahweh
and all and that will become clear as we
keep reading the passage but let me just
say this the word man you might be
stumbled by that well how can you use
the word man to describe God or even
angels for that matter but that's
exactly what the scripture does you ever
read the verse that says that God is a
man of war it doesn't mean he's his
nature is human in that sense no it it's
man is used of humans it's used of
angels it's used of the angel of the
Lord which we've went in to last time so
it's a very flexible term it doesn't
just mean not God a humanoid type person
now notice the numbers as we keep
reading here picking up partway through
verse 2 notice the numbers you know
whether he says them or him
they plural or him singular so it says
when he saw them that's a
right so you saw three three men he ran
from the tent door to meet them plural
and bowed himself to the earth and said
O Lord singular if I have found favor in
your sight singular your sight that's
that word check the Hebrew that's
singular do not pass by your servant
your singular servant so there's three
men here but he runs to them any
addresses one of them as his Lord and
says that he's that person's servant so
we see that one of them is highlighted
amongst the three as being special verse
four little little water be brought and
wash your feet that's plural and rest
yourselves plural under the tree while I
bring a morsel of bread that you may
refresh yourselves plural and after that
you may pass on since you've come to
your servant so we've got this singular
being isolated out of the three but he's
gonna do something for that all three of
them bringing them stuff ones addressed
his Lord and that's the real focus of
Abraham so to recap Abraham sees Yahweh
he looks up and sees three men he runs
over to the three but he addresses one
of them as Lord implication one of these
is Yahweh that's so far that's just what
the text would imply it seems as though
they're all in some kind of human-like
form for one thing they're visible and
for another he offers them food and
water to wash their feet that obviously
is not an anthropomorphism here it was
like he's like I'll give you a food and
water to wash your feet
so they seemed to be in human form or at
least human looking form and we have
good reason to think that they're more
than human not only in this chapter but
in the following chapters so we're not
saying they're reduced to humanity but
they're coming in that in that
appearance so it's unlike the
Incarnation because he actually came and
was a human this is in a different sense
so let's keep reading because now we see
them talk and I think it's very insightful
insightful
so they said plural they they speak as a
group here
do as you have said verse 6 and Abraham
went quickly into the tent to Sara and
said quick three seas of fine flour
knead it and make cakes I remember
reading this so I was studying for this
and Allison was was near by and I looked
at her and I said I think this is really
funny baby cuz
Abraham's like stay here and I'll make
you food and he runs to his wife he's
like quick mixing food and I that's yeah
that's pretty much that's how it is for
lots of families I think that was funny
but he's not done because he's gonna
have someone else make food too so verse
seven and Abraham ran to the herd and
took a calf tender and good and gave it
to a young man who prepared it quickly
then he took curds and milk and the calf
that he had prepared and set it before
them and he stood by them under the tree
while they ate so then they all get the
food and they're all eating or at least
the word they is there so I'm assuming
they're all eating they said to him
where is Sara your wife and he said
she's in the tent so this could be I
mean just interesting right this could
be that they're speaking like plural
they're all sort of talking together it
was one old Hollywood movie where they
they actually took this scene and they
had three men and each of the three men
they were all hooded and one would start
a sentence and the other one would
finish it and they had the same actors
face on the different guys I don't think
that's probably a fair representation of
it because it seems as though one of
them stands out as different than the
rest based on what he what we already
read so again not that not the Trinity
Father Son Spirit here but there's
definitely a theophany
all right verse 10 now it changes now
Yahweh speaks it's not they anymore it's
just Yahweh the Lord said I will surely
return to you about this time next year
and Sarah your wife shall have a son so
now Yahweh speaks to him first it was
they now it's just just Yahweh what was
interesting is they go they say where's
your wife and then Yahweh says I will
surely return to you
Sarah's listening at the tent or behind
him now something you should know the
word Lord the word Yahweh you probably
says that in your translation I'm not
sure which translation you're using that
is added by the translators it doesn't
say Yahweh in that verse in the actual
Hebrew in verse 10 it was added what it
says in the Hebrew is the one or one so
one said to him or the one said to him
that's what it says but it was added for
good reason because as we keep reading
we'll finally we get to verse 14 that
the one who says this is obviously
Yahweh so just keep that in mind I just
want to give you all the all the
information so you can study the Bible
verse 11 now Abraham and Sarah were old
advanced in years the way of women had
ceased to be with Sarah so she couldn't
have a child she already passed that
stage of life so Sarah laughed to
herself saying after I'm worn out and my
lord is old shall I have pleasure like
if she can have a child which would be
that would be the pleasure to her the
Lord said to Abraham now now in verse 13
this is Yahweh Yahweh is actually now
definitely clearly speaking says to
Abraham why did Sarah laugh and say
shall I indeed bear a child now that I'm
old is anything too hard for Yahweh the
Lord and it's interesting when God
speaks of himself with that kind of
distance that's there at the appointed
time I will return to you about this
time next year and Sarah shall have a son
son
and it's that phrase that tells us that
verse 10 is also Yahweh speaking because
he said I'll return to you and then he
goes and he affirms it now the AH way
speaks I will return to you so that's
why we think verse 10 is seems like it's
definitely speaking of Yahweh here
Yahweh speaks about himself in the third
person and in the first I will and
Yahweh is anything too hard for Yahweh
and then he was surely I will return to
you it's just interesting it's
interesting I wouldn't I wouldn't build
a giant castle out of that idea I just
think it's really neat you know I like
observing these things alright let's
keep reading but Sarah denied it saying
I did not laugh for she was afraid he
said no but you did laugh if anybody
thinks the three men were there but
Yahweh was speaking to Abraham
internally like there was like an
internal voice kind of thing well that
couldn't be true because what Sarah
overheard it and laughed okay so this is
there's an audible communication going
on there he's are all hearing it
together verse 16 then the men set out
from there and they looked down towards
Sodom and you guys know what's happening
next they're gonna go down to Sodom and
the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is
gonna happen and Abraham went with them
to see them on there to set them on
their way and the Lord said Yahweh said
shall I hide from Abraham what I'm about
to do
seeing that Abraham shall surely become
a great a mighty nation and all the
nations of the earth shall be blessed in
him for I've chosen him that he may
command his children and his household
after him to keep the way of the Lord
Yahweh to keep the way of the Lord by
doing righteousness and justice so that
the Lord Yahweh may bring to Abraham
what he had promised him I look forward
to one day when we'll just have
translations that actually just
translate the Hebrew instead of putting
the word Lord they're like why not I
can't think of a good reason except that
it's harder to sell them because people
are like freaked out like what's that
and they they just need to be educated
on then they probably would love it but
it helps us to see that and recognize
what's happening there so who's speaking
Yahweh and then at the end he suddenly
speaks in the third person that to keep
the way of Yahweh by doing righteousness
and justice so that Yahweh may bring to
Abraham what he has promised him it's
just it's just interesting I just don't
find it very interesting verse 20 then
the Lord said because the outcry against
Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their
sin is very grave I will go down to see
whether they have done altogether
according to the outcry that has come to
me and if not I will know so the men
turned from there and went towards Sodom
but Abraham stood still before Yahweh
okay this is this is interesting this is
where something interesting happens
because when you read on you go to 19
just two of them go down to see lot just
two of them Abraham now stands before
Yahweh and two of them go down so Yahweh
was definitely one of the three this is
confirmation one of these three in so
this is definitely theophany there seems
to be no reasonable way to doubt that
verse 23 then abraham drew near and said
will you indeed sweep away the righteous
with the wicked and then they they have
this whole like conversation where he's
like what if there was fifty righteous
or ten righteous and they kind of kind
of Barger's it down and he's interceding
for Sodom and then at the end of the
chapter verse 32 the last part of verse
32 he says for the sake of ten I will
not destroy it and the Lord went his way
when he had finished speaking to Abraham
and Abraham returned to his place and
again in Genesis 19 we'll read the first
couple verses there just to give us the
context the two angels came to Sodom in
the evening so these men were angels but
the third of them
yah way that that's what seems to be
very very clear then in Genesis 1924
adding another interesting thing into
the text it has this think of the
grammar of this right he says then
Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah
sulfur and fire from Yahweh out of
heaven that's interesting isn't it
Yahweh rained down sulfur and fire from
Yahweh out of heaven and we read in the
earlier chapter Yahweh had come down and
was there I mean maybe that that he
stayed in that theophany state during
the whole events of what was going on
with Sodom and gomorrah's the two angels
went perhaps he was staying there and
then when he when they left and the fire
he may be that that that is a
possibility so I think that is a very
interesting very interesting passage and
there's one more I'll add to to this mix
and that's Amos chapter 4 verse 11 this
is specifically about the events we just
read so turn there if you would Amos
4:11 if you like to I'll just read it to
you so we have we have is we have
definitely a theophany type thing but
here's why I think cry Stephanie because
this Yahweh who's speaking to Abraham he
speaks also of Yahweh in the third
person and then when the events finally
take place of the fire and brimstone
Yahweh rains down fire brimstone from
Yahweh out of heaven almost as though
we've got two different persons going on
in the story Amos 4:11 Amos 4:11 says I
overthrew some of you as when God
overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah as you were
and you were as a brand plucked out of
the burning yet you did not return to me
declares the Lord Yahweh here's another
statement about the sodom and gomorrah
event where god again he always seems to
distance himself from himself you know
as far as phraseology i'll read it again
i god speaking i over through some of
you as when God overthrew Sodom and
Gomorrah and you were as a brand plucked
out of the burning yet you did not
return to me declares Yahweh very interesting
interesting
how multiple different passages kind of
preserve the same thing it's isn't in
other words it doesn't seem coincidental
it seems intentional when you have it
happening multiple times even in a
different book of the Bible okay so turn
to Genesis 32 and we're gonna look at
Jacob Jacob the night before meeting
Esau this is the passage where Jacob's
wrestling with the man and there's this
difficult stuff going on so Genesis 32
verse 24 Jacob just to bring you up to
speed he he's gonna send all of his his
Goods and his cattle and his servants
and even his family are gonna go ahead
of him and he's offering them to Esau
you can have all this stuff he's just
trying to build a bridge because the
last time he saw Esau try saying that
five times fast
he saw Esau the last time that happened
Esau was gonna try to kill him and so he
thinks this is still gonna happen so
Genesis 32 24 it says and Jacob was left
alone and a man wrestled with him until
the breaking of the day when the man saw
that he did not prevail against Jacob he
touched his hip socket and Jacobs hip
was put out of joint as he wrestled with
him then he said let me go for the day
is broken but Jacob said I will not let
you go unless you bless me and he said
to him what is your name and he said
Jacob then he said your name shall no
longer be called Jacob but Israel for
you have striven with God and with men
and have prevailed then Jacob asked him
please tell me your name but he said why
is it that you ask my name and there he
blessed him so Jacob called the name of
the place Peniel which which means to
see God and so he says for I have seen
God face to face yet my life has been
delivered so who did Jacob think he saw
God he thought he saw God yet he
wrestled with this man and when the
person he's wrestling with describes the
event he says you've wrestled with man
and with God and if you're thinking well
wrestled with man so he that was a man
and so symbolically he was wrestling
with God but the
man wasn't really somehow a theophany i
think i think that's mistaken because
the man Jacob wrestled with is at the
beginning of Jacob's life anybody know
who that was that was Esau remember that
they're in the womb and he grabs him
he's named he'll catcher because of
grabbing him that was the first one he
wrestled with and then he defeated he
saw he he got the birthright and he got
the blessing and he goes and now you've
wrestled with God he wrestled with man
and you wrestled with God and prevailed
the thing with God is he couldn't
actually beat God he just wouldn't let
go and I think that's really interesting
I can't defeat God but I know let go I
think that's a nice attitude to have so
the two points I would draw from this
passage are one he says I've seen God
face to face yet my life is delivered
and this is interesting again because
the problem is if you see God you die
that seems to be the consistent teaching
you see God you die yet how are people
seeing God not dying well yet we see
Jesus he becomes the safe way for us to
see God he's always been the solution
and then number two the second point is
he striven with God and men and of
course the the man was he saw that and
God was of course this event so Hosea 12
verses 3 and 4 supports this let me read
it to you it says in the womb he took
his brother by the heel and in his
manhood he strove with God you see when
he was a baby he struggled with his
brother when he was an adult he strove
he's struggled with God he strove with
the angel and prevailed he wept and
sought his favour he met God at Bethel
and there God spoke with us
that's Hosea 12 verses 3 and 4 it seems
to really reinforce the idea that this
is he's wrestling with God now if you
were a Jewish person who rejected the
Messiah or as it projects Jesus I think
you'd have a struggle your own struggle
with God trying to explain this passage
but I think that when you realize that
Jesus is the image of the invisible God
that he is you know he's going forth our
from everlasting that he is he is being
revealed throughout the scriptures it
just makes total sense
it just makes total sense Jesus has
always been the answer to so many of the
hanging questions of the Old Testament
so that's what I love about getting
these going to the Old Testament finding
these these difficult places and hard
passages because so often it's pointing
right to Christ alright let's let's do
another Joshua chapter 5 this is when
they're entering the promised land some
of you guys were asking about this last
time they're entering the promised land
they're just crossing over the the River
Jordan and the first city they come to
is what Jericho yes they come to Jericho
so we're there in John and Joshua five
entering the promised land and remember
when God had said we went over this last
time as well I will send my angel before
you you better do what he says and it
was the angel of the Lord that would go
before them well let's read on Joshua
5:13 when Joshua is by Jericho he lifted
up his eyes and looked and behold a man
was standing before him with his sword
with his drawn sword in his hand and
Joshua went to him and said are you for
us or for our adversaries now this is
understandable right because Joshua is
coming with not only the people of
Israel but he's now coming with the army
of Israel and why are they in the
Promised Land they've come to drive
people out and to take over the land
this is this is it and so we see someone
come with a sword and he's like alright
this might be the first encounter you
know this might be like are you for us
or against us and I love the answer in
verse 14 and he said no I love it I love
it you know so many people they put
crosses on their shields or they've been
the name of God they have I'll tell you
right now if there's a war in the world
there's a chaplain blessing each side
right different chaplains coming up and
blessing the troops of each side as if
everyone's causes just as if God's on
everybody's side and I like this answer
here he just says no no this doesn't
mean that every war is unjust either it
just means no God has his own agendas
and he doesn't necessarily come in line
with yours you need to come in line with
his unit you need to follow him so he
says no but I am the commander of the
army of the Lord now I have come as
though he was expected I'm here now I've
come and Joshua
fell on his face that was
hurt no obviously this is this is a
picture language he boughs down he gets
on his face and worshiped and worshiped
and said to him what does my Lord say to
his servant so he just completely yields
and how does he know so quickly to yield
because he says I'm the commander of the
army of the Lord he's Yahweh's army
commander I'm in a bow before you and he
worships and then what is what does he
say the commander of the lord's army
said to Josh would take off your sandals
from your feet for the place where
you're standing is a holy does that
sound familiar to you under the last
time that happened yeah it was it was at
the burning bush with this interesting
right in the burning bush that was the
angel of the Lord in the bush but Yahweh
spoke from the bush and Moses comes near
and he's told to take his sandals off
and now we have now not Moses Joshua the
new generation he meets the angel of the
Lord he baozi worships and he's told
take your sandals off this is holy
ground the commander of the lord's army
it says the commander of the lord's army
the lord's army here would would
potentially be the Israelites or it
could also be speaking of angels the
Israelites are actually called the army
of God in other places in Scripture so
it could be talking about them he's like
Joshua you think you're in charge I'm in
charge that may have been the point but
here's a couple points one Joshua
worshipped this guy a lot of people will
try to get away from seeing if the often
here or a Christ often a year and
they'll say it's it's okay to worship
God's messengers because the messenger
represents God but that's not true is it
because in Scripture this is
specifically refuted multiple times we
have human messengers that are that
people try to worship right Peter says
get up we're just men like you stop that
right don't worship us stop that so then
we also have in revelation 19:10 an
angelic messenger and john falls to
worship this angelic messenger and he
doesn't go it's okay because I represent
Yahweh no it says then I felt revelation
19:10 then I fell down at his feet to
worship Him but he said to me you must
not do that I'm a fellow servant with
you and your brothers who hold the
testimony of Jesus worship God for the
testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy
prophecy
so he's told don't
this you can't do this so I think it's
it's um wrong to say that the worship is
insignificant here this being Comes
represents not only the Lord he's
commanded Lord says but he's receiving
worship and he says similar to what was
said to Moses take off your your shoes
because in fact that's the response he
goes to worship and they ain't this this
individual this the the commander of the
armies of the Lord of Hosts he says to
him instead of get up stop worshiping he
goes yeah while you're at it take your
shoes off because this is holy ground I
mean he just he in other words
incentivizes him even more to do it
question why is the ground holy how come
when angels come in the Bible we don't
have them telling people to take their
shoes off the only example I have is
when God shows up because God's holy
interesting Exodus 3 5 last time this
happened it says do not come near here
take your sandals off your feet for the
place on which you are standing is holy
ground why because God's presence was
there now as you continue reading in
Joshua chapter 5 if there's I think an
unnecessary chapter break if you read on
to chapter 6 it there's a chapter break
there and so you feel like it's ending
the story but remember what just
happened was like an introduction it
wasn't the whole story right I see this
guy I bowed on our worship he says take
your sandals off and he introduced
himself as who the commander of the army
of the Lord and guess what he has
commands so that's what we read in
Joshua 6 chapter 1 now Jericho was shut
up inside and outside because of the
people of Israel none went out and none
came in and the Lord said to Joshua now
if that had been apart from the story of
the commander then I would not I would
have just assumed God which is somehow
speaking to him but because it happens
right as Joshua is meeting this guy
bowing down and then getting he's gonna
get instructions that's the idea I've
come to tell you what to do and the Lord
Yahweh said to Joshua see I've given
Jericho into your hand with its king and
mighty men of valor you shall march
around the city all the metaphor going
around the city once
thus you shall do for six days and he
continues to give them all the
instructions in the context I think
Yahweh is the same as the commander of
the army of Yahweh and here's why
because in verse 13 it's introduced by
Joshua was by Jericho he's on his way to
Jericho he's almost there
and in chapter 6 verse 1 where is he
he's still there right in front of
Jericho getting instructions on what to
do he's about to command that means that
he's there to command them and then in
chapter 6 that's where the commands come
so who's speaking here it seems to me
that it's Yahweh who's speaking in
Yahweh who was standing before and
Joshua submits and he asks the commander
for instructions what does my Lord say
to his servant remember he said that at
the end of chapter 5 what does my Lord
say to his servant and the next person
to speak in the story is and Yahweh said
to Joshua go do this so I think we have
a good reason to think that that's the
case and let's not forget again Exodus
23 where God says to his people behold I
send an angel before you to guard you on
the way and to bring you to the place
that I have prepared that's the promised
land that's what they're doing right now
pay careful attention to him and obey
his voice do not rebel against him for
he will not pardon your transgression
for my name is in him so these are it to
me these are lots of threads all coming
together and the thing that makes the
so you might go Mike okay finder the
same but why is this stuff so
complicated and because sometimes it is
some of this stuff is complicated or
weaving multiple threads from different
books of the Bible altogether and I
think that there's something that we
want we should learn called explanatory
scope I guess raise your head feel for
that term explanatory scope so there's a
explanatory power that's how well an
explanation solves a problem explanatory
scope is basically how many problems it
solves like how many problems it solves
that's that's the explanatory scope so
like if you came in this room is a total
mess and it's got all these weird
decorations up as it does now because we
have our Vacation Bible School come in
and what if I was to give you an
explanation for for this right here I
and the explanation was well Kirk was
here earlier and he really likes seashells
seashells
and and and ocean themes and so I think
he decorated this area and then I go and
there's a shark hanging from the ceiling
over there and that's because Ric really
likes you know sea creatures and he
likes scuba diving and he likes sharks
so he put the shark and I start giving
you different explanations for every
piece of artwork that's up in the room
after a while you'd be like maybe all
those explanations work they have
explanatory power but they don't have
explanatory scope then I give you the
one that has scope and I go VBS right we
have Vacation Bible School one
explanation that explains all of these
issues all at the same time that's
explanatory scope so you see how that's
really important when you have a bunch
of issues then you have one solution
that fixes all those problems you go
okay there's a lot of truth to that then
Jesus has explanatory scope
he explains so many of the problems that
we see and issues we see throughout the
Old Testament it's as though the Old
Testament asks the questions and Jesus
provides the answer it's it's laying the
trail and we're here like CSI gathering
the data getting it all together and
going yes okay this is Jesus this is
what we're seeing its Christ its Christ
they do this with the with the planets
and the movements of the stars and they
try to come up with all these different
theories for how the why is the
retrograde motion of planets in the sky
and star is moving the way they do and
then finally when they thought well
maybe it's just gravity like and they
had one explanation that kind of dealt
with all of it that was well accepted
right and it's the same thing here Jesus
answers so much alright let's look at
let me see how much how much do I have
here okay not too much more a little bit
more we're look at another example this
is about Shadrach Meshach and Abednego
and here's a story where I'm gonna tell
you I don't know for sure but I think
it's interesting and I think it's worth
looking at as we look at this
so Daniel chapter 3 we know the story
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego they
they're told that they cannot worship
you know and they have to worship and
bow down to Nebuchadnezzar statue they
can't worship God and so they refused
and now they're gonna get the death
penalty so we pick up in verse 19 of
Daniel 3 then Nebuchadnezzar was filled
with fury and the expression of his face
was changed and against Shadrach Meshach
and Abednego
ordered the furnace heated seven times
more than it was usually heated I think
this is funny because this is sometimes
what what like big heady leaders do like
you cuz you know the people who actually
run the furnace are like you can't
technically heat it seven times but
that's what the order goes out he's like
just make it happen
seven times whatever you say boss so
they just throw a bunch of fuel in there
I doubt they actually heated it seven
times but whose truth anyway I think
it's funny some leaders are like that
I'm so verse 20 and he ordered some of
the mighty men of his army to bind
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego and to
cast them into the burning fiery furnace
then these men were bound in their
cloaks their tunics their hats and their
other garments and they were thrown into
the burning fiery furnace because the
Kings order was urgent and the furnace
was overheated the flame of the fire
killed those men who took up Shadrach
Meshach and Abednego
I mean how horrific this event must have
been and these three men Shadrach
Meshach and Abednego fell bound into the
burning fiery furnace then King
Nebuchadnezzar was astonished and rose
up in haste and he declared to his
counselors did not we did we not cast
three men bound into the fire they
answered and said to the king true O
king because you don't want to say any
more words than you have to when he's
this angry yep Billy whatever you say
boss and he answered and said but I see
four men four unbound walking in the
midst of the fire and they are not hurt
and the appearance of the fourth is like
a son of the gods and I'll pause for a
second here because if you have new king
James you're like no it says like the
son of God the more accurate translation
is a son of the gods I'll explain it in
a minute but that's just the reality of
it they the translators felt that this
was like Christ and so they I think bent
the translation in at least in the New
King James Version a little bit without
justification but verse 26 then
Nebuchadnezzar came near to the door of
the burning fiery furnace he declared
Shadrach Meshach and Abednego servants
of the Most High God come out and come
here then Shadrach Meshach and Abednego
came out from the fire so let's look at
that phrase because
what we really want to highlight we're
not looking at the whole story we just
there's four men instead of three and
one of them has a different appearance
than normal people he looks like a quote
son of the gods like a son of the gods
now Nebuchadnezzar was he a Christian no
was he a Jew no right he's a pagan king
who literally just built a big statue
and told everyone yep dad to worship Him
right this is not he's not a godly man
he has all sorts of weird beliefs in his
head what what when he describes like a
son of the gods it doesn't mean it was
like this is like Hercules right it's
like Hercules yeah you made it no that's
not what we're saying
what we're saying is he sees a being
that looks like a Divine Being looks
like a supernatural something more than
human that's what he sees in the fire
that's all we really get out of his
statement like a son of the gods that's
all we really get out of that so that's
why he says like I don't know what that
thing is but in my head and my with my
pagan worldview this looks like a son of
the gods so who could this be like whoa
in the text what information do we have
like it it could be an angel it's more
than a man I think that's clear it could
be an angel or it could be an actual
theophany could be could be a Christ
often II and I don't actually have a
clear way of telling I don't even have a
strong push towards one way or the other
in my opinion it could really easily be
either one so I'm inclined to lean
towards it being a Christ often II
personally but that is because of this
see if I start with the Old Testament I
just look at this passage I would not
see a Christ often either but if I take
the whole Council of God's Word and I
see Jesus and I see Jesus coming in
other forms Isaiah saw his glory and I
see all this kind of stuff then I feel
like I have good reason to kind of lean
automatically towards the Christ often
II because that's just the way God seems
to be doing things and this is this is
where I wanna bring out an important
point when we're doing this Jesus in the
Old Testament study this is a study in
theology right this is there's a lot of
threads there's actually evidence for
the Bible there's internal consistency
and things like that there's the idea
that there's a meta-narrative a big a
big story that's written in the text of
Scripture that the authors themselves
couldn't have designed right God
designed this there's all that
but we do this as Christians with the
knowledge of Christ we're now looking at
the Old Testament to rediscover what God
has already placed in it that's the idea
does that make sense and this because
I'm doing this with the theology of
Christ already secured in my mind I'm
able to allow the New Testament to guide
me in my understanding of the old to
allow the fullness of the scriptures to
guide me and how I interpret it so I
think this is absolutely fine this is
not evidence for the Bible from
fulfilled prophecy that's a very
different kind of thing this is rather
just evidence for inspiration but it
really is um an exercise you can only do
with Christ already established
theologically in your head like you
already have to know who Jesus is to be
able to do this thing and that's one of
the one of the principles we'll get it
when you're going to Jesus in the Old
Testament I think it's totally safe to
allow the scriptures to inform us of the
way in which God communicates about
Jesus he's the overarching theme of the
Bible in the Bible itself seems to
reveal that Jesus is in here a lot more
than what was obvious to the original
readers so I have biblical reasons for
okay there's there's there's other
passages I'd like to cover but I think
we're done as far as time goes and what
I want to do is announce what we're
doing next weeks or next week we're
gonna get into Melchizedek and
Melchizedek is very controversial and
difficult figured a lot of people think
he's a Christ often II personally I
don't think so
and I'm gonna explain why and if you
think he is that's fine I'm love to hear
your thoughts on that as well but I
think Melchizedek gives us I hope people
can grab what I'm trying to teach here
gives us ways of approaching the Old
Testament so that what we learn from
milk is that we can apply to other
passages you see because we're not just
learning here's Jesus here here's Jesus
here we're actually learning here's how
to find Jesus in other places as well
we're getting a set of tools that we can
use to uncover evidence for Christ
throughout the Old Testament right let's
pray father God
we pray for wisdom as we approach your
word for humility we don't want to be
using our imaginations to find stuff but
yet in all sorts of ways with with not
only prophecy and stories and lives and
names and also with sort of just this
style of how you've written Christ into
the Scriptures we just pray for insight
understanding that we might appreciate
the fullness of the Word of God we want
to be like those those guys on the road
to emmaus having our hearts burn within
us as you open the scriptures to us to
teach us the things about yourself that
we find in these pages in Jesus name [Music]
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