YouTube Transcript:
Blerim Skoro - CIA & FBI Asset / Al-Qaeda Infiltrator | SRS #198

We're going to come to the points how I
was offered from ISIS to become leader
of ISIS. So September 11, I'm in a cell
with one of the terrorists. The first
flight hit, he jumps on the bottom band
and happy. This is from my leader. Now
I'm thinking if I kill this guy in a
prison or not. I see two guys coming
down and they pull the gun, shot me four
time, not once. They taught you how to
make bombs. Absolutely. kind of
Blair Skoro, welcome to the show. Thank
you very much. Honor to be in your show.
Honor to have you. Thank you, man.
You've got a hell of a life story
growing up in Kosovo, coming in, being
recruited by the CIA as an asset,
infiltrating al-Qaeda, an assassination
attempt. I mean, this is going to be a
really good interview. Really good
interview. Yes, it is going to be good.
And your story is so interesting.
They're doing a documentary about you.
Yes. When's that coming out? Hopefully,
we're planning soon. I don't have too
much control over that. It's people
involved. So, but it's going to come
soon. Do you know where it's going to
go?
Uh, we are guest in uh May 21st to May
26 in California for 6 days and after
that I will find out what's going to be
the next step. But I am in California in
Hollywood uh from May 21st to May 26th.
Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank
you. Thank you. Well, everybody starts
off with a introduction here.
So, here we go. Blurham Skoro, Kosovan,
Albanian immigrant and former Yugoslav
army soldier who deserted to escape
ethnic persecution during the Kosovo
War. turned to crime to save her family
from genocide, smuggling drugs to fund
their escape from Kosovo, only to face
an 8-year prison sentence in 2000. Then
became a CIA asset who infiltrated
al-Qaeda after 9/11, all for a chance to
reunite with your American-born wife and
daughters. You survived an assassination
attempt in 2010 while serving as a CIA
informant, a husband, and a father who
won a landmark immigration case in 2022.
And now you drive a cab in New York
City. Your story is the subject of a new
documentary called The Accidental Spy,
which hopefully comes out in May. So,
couple things to uh knock out here real
quick. We have a I have a Patreon
account. Yes. and we've grown quite the
community there. We actually we just we
just took all their names. We're we're
building a new studio. It's about three
and a half times the size of this. We
took all 28,000 people who have ever
been a Patreon member and supported us
and uh we just put that on the wall
inside and the whole studio will be
built around it. But one of the things I
do is I offer them uh the opportunity to
ask each and every guest a question. A
question, excuse me. So this is from Tin
Dog. Do you consider yourself a patriot
of the US or a subversive because of the
betrayal? Where is your head at today? I
am 100% American patriot.
I thought you would say that. Thought
you would say that. And I'm proud to be
that. Good. Good. Well, we're proud to
have you. We're proud to have you. So,
quick answer, but
um and then
lastly, you watch the show, so you know,
everybody gets a gift. Thank you very
much. I appreciate it. Vigilance Elite
Gummy Bears. Yes. Legal in all 50
states. There you go. But, um this is
going to be a heavy interview and uh I
hope I hope we go down some rabbit
holes. I mean, just just since you've
been here, you brought up the fact that
uh something about Uranian coming out of
Russia. I definitely want to dive into
that and um and some of your outlook on
Syria that we just discussed off camera.
So, but let's start with life in Kosovo.
So, you're born in 1971 in Kosovo during
a time of ethnic tension under Yugoslav
rule.
I
was obligatory service in Yugoslav
army. What's was the worst war ever
existed in Balkans? I know you've been
seeing a lot and a lot of the viewers
and a lot of the guest but I saw also
very bad and a lot I was in a group with
one of the most dangerous
criminal Rajnatovich known aka Archon.
Wow. And I see I witnesses with my own
eyes behaving killing rape you name it
all of it. And I survived. How how young
were you when you started witnessing
those things? I tell you my 20 years
birthday was in the military.
So I started 19 years old.
So you started seeing beheadings, rapes,
all these kind of things as a 19y old
kid. As a as a 20-year-old kid. What was
the first time you saw a beheading? I
didn't believe it. First I thought it's
like uh like something you watch in the
movie. I saw woman getting raped from
the those uh paramilitary groups of
archon and there was a creations. I was
in the Yugoslav army and uh to me was I
didn't believe because when we uh called
for duty we called for duty to serve the
country against enemy outside not inside
of the own people. So Croats that time
when I was serving it was still
Yugoslavia which I start in I was uh I
started my service in March 20 1991 and
I was you know serving be even that time
Albanians from Kosovo we had no rights
we was considered like secondass
citizens because history of ourself it's
Alb Kosovo used to be always part of the
Albania because the communism dictator
it broke up and the Yugos
took over my country. But the history
it's always there. It's a black and
white. We cannot change it. Some people
may like, some people don't like, but
Koso was part of the Albania. So, we
start this uh uprise, you know, to be
separated from Yugoslavia, but we
couldn't do it. We always had a lot of
issues and stuff and uh we couldn't do
it. Then I was called in March
20 1991 and I start I finished 3 months
of uh training uh which is in the
beginning uh it was 8 weeks if I don't
make mistake and they start war in
Slovenia. I was in a training camp in
one of the cities of uh Yugoslavia city
called Shabbat. It's very close to the
Croatian border. That's what was uh I
was I start my uh uh military training
for war. That's a little different than
regular training. That's how I came out
to uh see the one of the worst criminal
Rajnatovich Arkan and there was
volunteers. I was regular military and
we start those training and stuff and uh
one
time I never talked in my life. CIA knew
at this part but uh my family of course
knows when we was in the training you
have some pictures we can demonstrate if
you want later in the camp it's a
pictures in the camp I was order it was
uh stolen uh weapons in that camp from
the uh uh those volunteers and when we
say volunteers it's a two different
groups I was in regular military and
there was those chatnik volunteers those
they're butchering people, woman, raping
those with a group of Rajnetto varan.
And uh since the military officers saw
me like I was little kind of skilled
soldier, they put me to be security not
to allowed nobody to move in a base and
group of six or seven of them they tried
to sneak in and I tell them you cannot
go in stop and they didn't want to stop.
And then I second time because that's
how was uh our rules. You ask them one
time to stop. If they don't stop then
second time you pull the gun, you put
the bullet in the chamber and you're
ready to shoot. And they don't want to
stop. That's first time in my life I
shoot in a people. That was kidding. Uh
June June or July of uh
1991 and I was age 20. I never talked in
the no media this part of the story.
First time in my life. But when I said I
didn't talk, CIA knew what everything.
So when you come to I did a polygraph
test to the CIA, but we're not going to
change the subject where it's beginning
and uh so you you shot in a group of six
or seven uh volunteers of the Chattnik,
the worst chat. You have the picture. I
did send it to you guys the picture. I
shot in them with a AK-47 like nothing
like first time in my life shooting to
the people was that in age 20. Did you
kill them? Uh I cannot say if I killed
but they don't want to say it but I know
everybody was laying down in the ground.
Nobody was moving but I pulled the
trigger and I know I'm a sharp shooter.
I don't I don't miss easy. I can I'm
very good in a shooting. So maybe one of
them went down but definitely I did shot
in a group of them and then that's how I
become like a very honor to the military
Yugoslav military like uh you know they
I create a trust. Mhm. And uh then we
still continue in a training camp in a
city Shabbat exact I will uh you didn't
go to make sure they were dead or
anything? No, I cannot. You're not
allowed because the officers come and
escort me right away and they took them
out and we're not allowed. You know,
it's a strict rules. If you shoot, then
they have to escort you uh keep you in a
safe place for a couple of days. And I
was given a pistol extra from the my one
of the uh officers uh in case he said if
you get problem with one gun, you have a
extra spare gun. So he kind of liked me
and he gave me his personal gun and I
kept for couple of weeks or a month.
Wow. Did that bother you at age 20 to to
potentially kill? Honestly, I felt very
great because I knew what I was shooting
in Serbians and we consider them enemy
of my country, enemy of my people. And
in my for example, I didn't talk too
much uh from all these 35 years about
this. I left because you know sometimes
legacy it's good to leave in the end of
the story of your life but my family
knows very well the story my kids know
very well and it's a 100% true and I
communicate after 35 years with officers
who helped me 35 years ago I
communicated just recently couple of
months ago no kidding they still
remember they are retired uh in a
Yugoslav former Yugoslav military and
they said We was proud you what you did
that time. And what did you call them?
Did you call them captains? Uh, no. It's
a It was a Yugoslav officer, Captain
First Class. It was a regular officers
in Yugoslav military. So that that
that's Serbians Cetnik. Cetnik. So when
I shot, I shot in the Cetnik. So this is
was Yugoslav regular Yugoslav military.
So it's little too different. My officer
didn't like them because he knew they
are criminals. So he liked us. So he
liked the regular military, but he
didn't like the volunteers. Wow. Because
volunteers is the one who commit the
genocide. Wow. Yeah. And what about the
beheadings and the rapes? Who who who
did you witness? I witnessed the those
reser those volunteers chatnik did to
the cros. So I witnessed a woman got I
know a one part for example it was a
woman didn't have a 12 years child kids
she had a baby it was a 9 month or 10
month old they killed the baby in front
of me and the rest of the soldiers and
they raped the lady and then they killed
the lady too. So I witnessed that. It
was somewhere in August of 1991. I was
present myself. And then there was
another story. A a former Yugoslav
military guy finished his service and he
came to visit his family in city
Vukawar. I was one of the most dangerous
wars in the city Vukawir. So he came in
that uh to visit his family because he
finished his service. When they found
out he came over there, they killed his
father and they killed the former
soldier who served in Yugoslav military
and they uh shot him from the behind.
They execute him. They kill his father
first and then execute him. I witnessed
that too. And then another part this
Chetnik uh you have the pictures. They
throw hand grenades. They put a woman
and kids in one of the basement. And I
remember family last name Chutura. I
helped them. They throw hand grenades in
the basement and me and uh one of my
officers is originally from Bosnia,
Bosnia, but it was regular military. He
said it was around 200 a.m. He said,
"Let's go. We hear the noise. They held
asking for help." We went in a basement.
what we saw in that basement all murder
killed woman and kids and I I went in
and it was a little slippery and I said
to the officer you have any match or
anything because it's slippery and my
foot was inside of the baby's body right
inside at age 20
and there was a old lady over there
calling for help in a Croatian uh pomog
pomogi and I went and took the lady. She
was all butchered from hang grenades and
I took her out less than 10 15 minutes
she passed away in my hand. I tried to
help her and then after
like start seeing all this then you get
used to it's a war you know. Of course
you young in a age but when you see all
this thing then it becomes like it's a
normal you know you in a war war you
have to do you have to defend yourself
protect yourself you not to get killed
and we did the best for me for example
we never
uh shoot innocent civilians even I was
more prot I was more able dreaming to
help crotz because we are more close
with Kra than Serbs. Serbs is Cthnik who
are ally with Russia and we consider
always enemy. So the Ser the Serbs and
the Cetnik are the are the same the same
are the same. Yes. Chetnik are the the
base of them the more fanatics like we
have Islamic radical al-Qaeda and stuff.
So Chetnik are in Serbians like that.
Okay. So if we compare with al-Qaeda so
Chetnik are like al-Qaeda and they were
doing this to your people not not to my
people to cross then in after a little
while when they start war in Kosovo they
was doing to my people but first this is
was 1991 and in to my people was 96 97
98 99 so in '91 I was in a Yugoslav
military. Jeez how common was this?
Look, it was not unusual like from my
generation
like even when I give a interview before
in like short interview in English one
of the newspaper I see people who I grew
up they don't know me much because we
was young 15 16 years and I don't talk
about stories like that it's not normal
for me to talk you know because like one
time I had nightmares I couldn't sleep
for a little while because when I are
talking about past what I saw you had
the you have a trouble sleeping you know
and I never want my kids to know this
kind of stories because I wanted my kids
to grow up to love people not to hate
because if you tell your child what
you've been through then they're going
to uh have a bad feeling thinking look
the my father what he went through you
know I want to hate those people too so
I don't want to give uh my kids uh idea
to hate anybody. I wanted my kids they
are born and raised in US. I want to be
free not to be having hate in their mind
because when you start having hate you
have no space to love people. So I
wanted to be educated extremely free and
good not to have ideas of the wars and
murders and death. So I want to be very
calm and educated and civilized. Wow.
There's not a lot of people that think
like that. No, that's pretty big of you.
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How did you get into the military? Was
it voluntary or did they was it somewhat
of a draft? No, it was obligatory
military that time when I was in
Yugoslavia. You must serve. It was no
choice because I couldn't have no
passport. I couldn't leave the country.
So was a complete dictator. You know you
must between age 18 and 20 at age 18 you
have to go in recruiting center for four
or five days. So if you uh capable to
serve. So I was in recruiting center I
was 18 years old and then uh at age 19
they sent me the letter I have to serve
the country and I took that responsibly
then I went and served the country. I
thought you know I'm serving a normal
Yugoslavian country. It's not like uh
I'm going to be part of the uh
committing genocide. It was a clear
genocide. Nothing uh it's no secrets.
It's I passed that uh situation. It's I
was there until October 13 when uh
complete Croatian city Vauovar
collapsed. And I say it I repeat it
again like I grew up with the people
they didn't even believe when they hear
a little bit the story they said no it's
not that but trust me I passed very
ruthless war look I've been in
Afghanistan I've been in a conscious
Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Jordan
and all these countries I I saw the wars
I saw what al-Qaeda did but uh this war
was also dangerous too. Wow. Wow. And
how long were you involved in that?
Until October 13, 1991. From March 1991
until October 13. [ __ ] So around almost
8 9 months. And who was committing the
genocide? Serves Chetnik. Were you guys
committing? My me personally not. No.
But group in my side. Yes. Yes.
Absolutely. How was the woman being
raped? How did that happen? It's very
bad. I saw I had to tell you this. I
remember one picture I saw like today. I
never forget that young maybe 35 years
old one that took that
child I couldn't do much you know
because look I thought many time if I
turn my gun to everybody and kill all
this but the problem was family because
if he was doing that to Serbs and Cetnik
they was going to execute my family
because that's how they used to do to
Albanians if Albanian guy shot the
Serbian or Cetnik then they was going to
kill the family. So then I was woring my
family. It's not the me to uh get
killed. I always thought I was like
since I grew up I grew up no fear like
uh I know one day I'm going to die. I
mean weren't they trying to kill you
anyways?
They try. They try. It was a time they
said look we're going to crucify him.
When I shot those group, there was
rumors, oh, we're gonna butcher him.
We're gonna uh make a cross in his body.
Those uh four S's, you know, Chattnik,
they have a four S's, cross and four
S's. Because they knew it. I was Muslim
born. So, they was you are sending me
threats through the soldiers and stuff.
But look, Sean, I'll be very honest. I
was ready to die when I started that
military. I said regardless if I die
today or after 50 years one day I'm
gonna die. So I had no kids I was not
married I was young. So the age is you
know the most dangerous age is you don't
fear nothing you know not everybody I'm
telling you not you have a kids like I
can tell you example I have a a boy 12
years old if you see him he's a big
giant boy but he will not kill kakaroas.
He's so like polite and nice. He was
said, "Daddy, no, don't kill that." You
know, but us was different because we
had that hate between us and Serbians.
So, we grew up, my grandfather was
executed in a communist country. My
mother's father, he was executed in
1940. So, and we grew up, you know,
having that hate. So, if I knew it how
my grandfather were executed. So now
automatically my parents educate me you
know look we we live here but those are
our enemy you know my grandfather was
killed so now we cannot trust them so I
was very educated and uh uh trained to
not to trust them so to be always
prepared you know if you have a uh ever
to come cross you have to defend
yourself or you're going to get killed
or you have to kill so this was also a
religious war. It's not a religious war
because I like us it was a more like we
grew up in communist. Albanian was not a
religious the way it's in a Middle East.
You know, Albanian we marry among
Christians. We don't have no issue.
Albanian is like uh one of the best
example you can live in the uh whole
world because we have no issue
Christians or Muslims. We are friends.
We uh celebrate all Christmas, Ramadan
all together. So we have no issues
between us. Of course, lately we have
very dangerous fanatics. Mhm. We crazy
fanatics because Albanians came out to
uh go in a Syrian war over 4 number one
country from the population give more
jihadist to the ISIS and al-Qaeda than
any different countries. So but uh uh us
we was not religious like that. So we
was modernize uh educate drink I was
parting I was drinking I was uh doing
life no different from you and rest of
the world. So we was no issue with
religion but certain they used to look
us like that. The other side always used
to look as oh they are dangerous because
they are Muslims you know they can
threat us they can kill us but we was
not like that and they were supposedly
Christian Christians yes orthodox
Christians from no different from
Russians.
Holy [ __ ] But Croatians are Catholics
with Croats we have very good uh
relation. We never had issues with them
only with the Serbians cetnik which they
are you know like Slavic. Mhm. No
different from Russians. Mhm.
Wow. What happened? What what happened
with your parents? Do you have any
brothers and sisters? I one brother
passed away here in 8 n years ago. One
of them oldest one is in Switzerland. I
had I bring my parents and the rest and
my parents passed away few years ago in
United States. They all US citizens. So
I bring everybody. I'm the one I sponsor
bring in all my family. Only my wife and
kids are born and raised here. My
parents become nationalized citizen from
me here. And did they fight too? No, my
parents not. My father served in
Yugoslav military two years but he
served 1960.
Your brothers? And my brother uh did
service but he didn't caught up in a
war. The youngest one he came young here
in US so he didn't uh went in a war. How
did it end? Uh uh the end was
uh it's good. My uh older brother he
served in the US love military. He did
in 1988. So that time was no war and my
father did in 1940. It was no war that
time and the rest of family didn't
serve. How did the war end? Oh very
brutal. Still it's uh it's a threat.
Croatia separated. Yugosavia is now
seven countries. It should start Serbia,
Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia and
Kosovo Montenegro. So it's seven
different country from Yugoslavia. But
uh still we have little issues. We have
a US military in Kosovo which is our
number one protector. To us it's
Albanians we believe God is in the sky.
America it's in the ground. It's a for
Albanians is Albania and Koso it's like
a 53rd state of US. You know we are more
pro but we have also issue with the
terrorist with fanatics definitely we
have a problem. So it's not like uh we
are clean. We're not uh uh because it
was Albanian from Kosovo who came out in
Frankfurt, Germany a few years ago. If I
don't make mistake, six, seven years
ago, he executed two US Marines in
Frankfurt, Germany. He k he shot two or
three. Wow.
Yeah. and uh uh not to pass the in uh
1991, October 9, 1991, I tried to escape
from the military, from the war zone on
November 9, October 9, I'm sorry. And uh
I got caught in uh uh entering the Belg
airport and my father was in a bus and
my brother-in-law they was trying to
help me to escape the war and I got
arrested from military police and that
was one of the worst ever days I passed
in my entire life. I was tortured so
badly when I had to use the bathroom. I
was
uh leaking blood. That's how they
torture me. Yugoslav military. How did
they torture you? They handcuffed me
from the right hand with the left and
they was hitting me those black sticks
they used to use in the military. I was
bleeding badly. They was letting me stay
in that and they was doing in the right
foot just to have me to admit I'm a
leaving. I'm a deserter from military.
And Sean for me was uh uh or me to die
or my family. So I decide to sacrifice
myself, not to sacrifice my family. So
what I did that I took the pain. They
torture me so badly and I never admit
it. I said I'm going to die that day in
military prison. I'm not going to admit
it. I'm leaving the military. They
tortured me so badly after four days
because in
Yugoslavia I was a communist have a
little uh skills because 1981 my father
was a police for 4 years in Yugoslav
police that I'm a regular police so I
learned how they when they torture
people if you take a pain for 72 hours
they will let you go. So if you don't
take the pain and you give up, you said,
"Yes, I did that." Then of course you're
going to get tortured and you're going
to get the prison. So now it was two
things or me to die or my family. So I
never admitted and they took me from a
military prison that sent me right away
in a war zone. And you have a piece of
paper uh proof. I send it to you guys
and you can see it clear. In October 13,
one of the officers, Captain Kabino,
he's the one who helped me sign that uh
uh permit. I'm going to uh be for 2 days
uh visiting my family but actually I was
not going to visit the family but I he
was helping me to leave the war because
I was going to go in military court
minimum 25 years just to enter the
military court because I did that uh uh
uh uh shot against chetnik. So I was
between uh 25 years or death sentence.
So I had no choice to do that and I
successfully left Yugoslav army. My
family thought I was dead. I went in my
city Kosovo that night. It was a 4:00
a.m. midnight in the morning and I
jumped from the wall. All my family
thought I was dead. When I uh knocked
the window of complete family was
waiting for my dead body to send it from
military. When they saw me live in my
city, everybody thought I was dead. I
got killed because I was arrested from
the military police and then finally I
received help from the some family
members and I left Yugoslavia in uh
October 14, 1991. I I went in
Switzerland. Took me 10 days journey to
enter Switzerland from Yugoslavia. How
did you get to Switzerland from
Yugoslavia? I it was a long journey.
I'll be very honest. Not easy young guy
to do like that. It's I guess my nature
is little bit uh uh like brave uh uh
they help me uh to give me a fake
passport. Not fake passport fake uh uh
my picture but different name. Mhm. I
never travel like that but I guess God
give me some kind of skills my nature.
That's how even I came out to CIA
because I was capable you know I'm a uh
street smart even I was not who knows
what kind of education in a school but I
was a natural street smart and I came
out to use that passport my name was uh
uh Yakubra Mushi when I used that
passport I did use at least all in my
life maybe 10 or 13 different names by
now So uh I took that passport. I
traveled from Macedonia to Bulgaria.
From Bulgaria I flew to Italy and in
Italy I get arrested. They was not
letting me uh go through from Bulgaria
to Italy. I had a little cash with me
and they they keep me one night in a
prison in Italy and they sent me back to
Bulgaria. But now uh if I don't come out
my with my ideas to enter Switzerland,
if I go in Yugoslavia, I was going to be
in a military uh prison and uh life or
death. So when you have this kind of
situation then now you got to uh do
whatever it takes to survive you know
it's not like uh you have experience but
experience you guys do it's a different
because you have a strong support when
you have a US military or US government
you feel more strong you know it's a
different feeling but me I don't have
that uh uh support I have a my support
is is only me how I'm going to survive.
So I uh was returning uh from Italy to
Bulgaria and I called from my one of
couple of best friend and a family
member to come and help me. So they
smuggled me from Bulgaria to Romania
illegal. And then from Romania I did all
my trips uh uh Romania, Hungaria,
Germany, Germany uh Belgium, Belgium,
France, France, Switzerland. I entered
Switzerland in October 26, 1991. And all
that all that was I mean how did you
fund that? With money. I had money take
it. It took uh that time I believe uh it
was not over $2,300 marks that time. So
basically like
$2,300 because I was always using buses,
local buses and stuff. So to pay a
little cheap and stuff, not to be
expensive. I never pay smuggler. So
everything in my life I did I never pay
smuggler. All I did myself. I used to
use You did this all yourself? All
myself just using my connection friends
you know like that and knowing me how I
was uh brave and tough. So always I used
to receive support. I mean that's a lot
of friends in a lot of countries. Yes.
Yes I do. Even today,
Germany, Belgium, France, Sweden, I mean
France, Belgium. Yes. Holy [ __ ] So you
knew people in every one of these. Every
one of the countries. Yes. How who were
they? Were they family members?
Albanians. Albanians. Everywhere.
Albanians. It's all connection. Even
today I'm speaking to you. Uh I can
easily say it. If you pick a globe and
turn and put the finger, I'm sure I have
a friend somewhere somehow. It's kind of
I'm very friendly with people and uh I'm
a loyal to my friends. It's not the job
I did. My friends are never bad guys. I
never have a friend bad guys. When I
said friend bad guys meaning hating
United State, all my friends are good
with us, good with a life. Mhm.
Regardless what they do with the
personal life, when it's come to choose
a US or terrorist, I don't have no
friends who side with terrorist. All I
have friends who side 100% with us. Wow.
And so what what happens when you get to
Switzerland? I came out in a Switzerland
in uh then I have a uh 10 or 15 first
cousins in Switzerland included my older
brother. He was working that time in
Switzerland. I stay in Switzerland for a
couple of months from October to
December. In December 23rd, I start
working after one week in Switzerland, I
start working construction in
Switzerland, illegal, staying illegal.
And uh I get arrested in 2 days before
Christmas. I'm sleeping in apartment in
Switzerland and my brother and my first
cousins, 10 of them, they was in a club.
We were they was all young and they come
in with two cars, I think 11 or 12 guys.
And the police obviously know only
Albanians can be uh six, seven guys in
one small car. So they get arrested. So
they come now they when they arrest they
come close to the building I used to
live. But nobody knew it what floor I
was living because one of my cousins uh
give me free apartment for a few months
because I came from military. Everybody
knew it what I been through in the
Yugoslav military. So they was kind of
respecting me from my past where I did
it. So they kind of like treated me a
little special than the rest of the
friends and cousins. I was like a uh
like a brave man to them and a special
treatment. So they arrested me now and
uh it was uh December 23rd the police
come 3:00 a.m. in the apartment where I
used to live in Geneva and uh me and one
of my cousins was sleeping. The bell was
ringing that night and uh he said it's a
bell. I said okay wake up and just open
the door. And he said but I see people
with a white shirt. I said it's okay you
can open the door. They just want in 10
15 cups. the Swiss uh police with the
guns and everything and they're telling
us uh don't move, don't move and they in
a French and I was very little that time
in a French now I I know because I used
to live in a Geneva side and Quebec side
so I I'm good in five six different
languages and now they're asking me for
passport they turn the light on and the
passport was next to TV and that night I
see
very bad dreams in a war and he said uh
your name and I said is Samoa Yakra
Mushi in a French and he looked that oh
[ __ ] now what I'm going to do you know
and he the other one get arrested my
brother get arrested and 10 other 15 uh
10 or 12 first cousins all of them get
arrested together they send us in a
prison in Geneva I stay for four or five
days in Geneva Huh? Now it's my plan to
survive because everybody going to get
deported in Yugoslavia and nobody's from
military only me from the all of us. So
what I'm going to do I need to plan
something myself. They taking us from
Geneva to Zurich and from Zurich uh Tika
to Yugoslavia. And now everybody walking
in airplane. It was uh uh two days after
Christmas for between Christmas and New
Year 1991. I'm planning my plan B using
my skills. Everybody moving in a flight.
I'm the last uh uh to enter the airplane
and I'm telling the police I'm saying to
him miss to me don't the passport which
is can you give me the passport? He said
yes I want to show it to you something
and he give me the passport with a
boarding ticket.
I took the passport, a complete passport
in front of him and I I throw in a floor
and I pushed the police and then they
punched me. That's where I was looking.
I was looking to get hit so to seek the
asylum and I was in a floor. Everybody
walked in the flight. They closed the
flight right away the door. Now they
jump all the police in me. What I did? I
said muas aa desertter of military the
Yugoslavi and they got stuck when you
mentioned desertter meaning deserter it
was from Yugoslav military because that
time a lot of albinis was deserting the
Yugoslav military and they believe it
they sent me back to Geneva they give me
a translator and I told the translator
look at I can bring my military IDs I'm
from former military I came from war
zone from
Vukovar and they bring the translator
and they give me asylum in Switzerland
temporarily. That was December 1991. I
stayed in in Switzerland from 1991 to
October
1994 in Switzerland. October 1994 I came
to United States. How did you get to the
United States? It's very good question
and it's excellent answer. In uh 1994 I
have my uncle came here in 1960. He
immigrated from Albania. He was a US
citizen. So I dreamed all the time. I
have my aunt and a lot of first cousin
they came that time. So I always dreamed
United State you know because they used
to come from US to Koso to visit us and
you know we see like always good you
know to be in United States you know my
first cousins they always uh talking
nice some of them they born in US that
time we talking 35 years ago because I
have family members they came 50 years
ago 60 years ago and uh I was dreaming
to come here and Switzerland was not
giving us asylum for good like in United
States they was giving us just temporary
all the former military was receiving
status only temporary in Switzerland. So
I asked my uncle I said can you send me
invitation I want to come in United
States. He said I would send it to you
but it's not easy you to get that uh
visa. I said look it you send it to me
I'm going to get the visa and uh he sent
me the visa and with his invitation that
denied. So what I did it now I use again
my skills. I got I got the passport from
somebody friend of mine and I went in a
US embassy in Switzerland and got the
visa myself. I got a visa with a
different name not my name blur skoro
again my skills to get the visa in the
US embassy and I went in Zurich and I
got visa they gave me multiply one year
visa for us I got the visa I came in JFK
I flew in uh October 1994 and u I my
uncle was waiting for me in JFK and it
was funny because like I'm using my uh
uh skills
not to trust still even my uncle but not
to tell him what I'm coming with name.
So he's he's coming in information in
JFK calling for blur but uh my name was
a different name Fei Husseini so totally
different name now so he's avoiding the
night report I took cab from JFK I mean
Atoria coins to his house and then I see
my wife my uncle's wife she's American
uh not Albanian American born and uh uh
Patricia she said welcome is she's
asking me I did a letter a few words
where it's your uncle. I said I don't
see my uncle. Then uh he she paged her
him that time it was no cell phones and
uh then my uncle respond
said where are you? I said I'm in your
apartment. How come you was not waiting?
I said because I took a different
passport different name you know. And
then he come and I start live in US
1994.
Wow, that's quite the journey. Yes,
that's quite the journey. Had you ever
met your uncle before that was here in
the US? Yes, I did. You did? Yes, I did.
Yes. And how long had he been here
before you arrived? Oh, he came here in
1960. Oh, 19 When did you meet him? Oh,
he used to come always from here in in
my country. Okay. He used to he was he
become US citizen and he had no problem
to come to visit us. And you didn't
trust him? I don't trust him because I
was uh fearing if I get arrested then I
will put him in trouble. Gotcha. So I
was trying to save him. Gotcha. You know
how it's a loss. If he knows I'm coming
with a fake passport, different name, he
can get trouble. Mhm. Mhm.
Holy [ __ ] Yeah, that's quite the
journey. And how old how old were you
when you got to the US, father? I was uh
20 uh 23 24. All that for in in 3 to
four years? Yes. Yes. After the military
3 4 years. So I start military 19. I
finished 20 and uh after 20 it's until
2000 1994. So basically 23
24 at young age with the strong
skills. Let's take a quick break. When
we come back we'll pick up with your
life in the US. No problem.
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All right, Blair, we're back from the
break. You're coming to the US. I know
you worked a lot of odd jobs and then
you got picked up and started working
with the Albanian mafia, but and we'll
get to that, but so arriving in the US,
you're living at your uncle's house with
his family. What's what do you start
doing in uh uh after a few months? I
stay if I don't make a mistake two or
three month until my uh I got my own
apartment. My own apartment I got
somewhere in February
1995 and I apply for asylum 95.
I start in December 94 and then uh we
send the papers to immigration 1995 and
my asylum was right away approved and
granted in May 1995. I got granted
political asylum in US which is it was
my dream come true you know I was always
dreaming that and I become a like very
quick very easy a lot of people was
struggling and suffering not being able
to become a US resident I did in less
than 3 4 months and uh after I got
granted 95 I start working uh did a lot
of different jobs and uh restaurant uh
construction uh I was dorman I was in a
cleaning company and uh supporting my
family I was always full-time worker
never no job and uh somewhere
95 96 it start breaking the war in
Yugoslavia between my country Kosovo and
Yugoslavia because those years it was
Slovenia and Croatia very got separated
so it was left over uh Kosovo,
Montenegro and Macedonia. And it was not
easy. I'll be very honest. I was working
hard and uh single person with one check
paying the bills and supporting family
was not easy. And it was good you to
make a living for yourself but that time
my family was not working in Yugoslavia.
So I had over my back maybe 10 15 family
members no job in Kosovo. So there was
all dependent from me. So all my family
was waiting for me. So no pension, no
income, no nothing. Just blur him to
send it to them. And I was young hanging
out with uh becoming friend with lot of
Albanians. And one day it was uh
1996. I'm in a bar with all Albanians,
you know, drinking party. Again I'm a uh
through the religion Muslim but you know
enjoying life nothing shre no uh wahhabi
no uh strict Islam and uh I'm telling my
friends look uh I'm having a little
hardship you know supporting my family
and stuff but I always used to live by
myself no roommate no nobody just my own
apartment and enjoying the life and one
day they approached me they said look we
can help you you know and I said, "Help,
you know, how is the help possible?"
They said, "You know, we can send we can
you can send drugs to
Albania." I said, "Drops to Albania?"
No, I never did that. You know, first
time, you know, having this
conversation. I was in a military
service, war and stuff like that, but
not but in a community. I was highly
respected in New York. So by knowing my
past, how I got arrested in the military
because it was uh not easy somebody to
uh survive that torture. It's uh it's
crazy, you know. So now everybody knows
that torture I did and you know how I
served in the Croatian war, you know,
was one of the most dangerous war in
Balkan. So kind of not kind of but even
in a mafia community my name start
becoming among the uh five six families
uh Gambino crime family Genovese Bonano
Luces all these Italian mafia included
Albanians and uh I was respected we was
hanging out in one of the Gambino crime
club in Bensonos used to be well-known
uh neighborhood of it mobsters in New
York. I used to live in that
neighborhood, you know, living all in
the middle of the mobster, so all
surrounded with mafia and I kind of
blend in good with good skills and now
it's quick spread the rumors, oh, he
came from the war, you know, uh, knowing
through the media he comes from the war
zone, they give you highly respect, you
know, they treat you more than the rest
of the people, you know, because, you
know, surviving in that Croatian war
it's kind of big things I start the trip
first trip if I don't make mistake
somewhere end of 96 first drug deal and
sending drugs to Albania so hold on what
what's going through your head when the
Albanian mafia says we can help we just
need you to push drugs to Albania
those moments for example I didn't much
ask because I know the nature of the
mafia is not to ask too much questions
Because if you ask questions then you
raising question maybe you work for
government you know because my asylum
was granted right away so a lot of them
was still illegal because that time in
US nobody was asking you for documents
you know you can live here you know like
rest the illegal immigrants nobody will
ask you if you have any paper you know
so it was like a like normal everybody
else and since I start hanging out with
them I said not to ask questions all I
need to follow the whatever they tell me
to follow, you know, nothing, no
questions. And they said, they teach me
how to do all these things. And I said,
okay, we start, you know, hanging out,
being more close to them, more, you
know, but they had a good reputation. I
tell you this, Albanians, Italian mafia
was very dangerous, but Italian mafia
would not play with Albanian mafia
because they was taking them too
serious. Albanians was killing them with
no problems. You know, it was more kind
of serious Albanians than Italians. you
know, they used to see them. Then when I
came out to the prison, then I found out
Albanians was really more strong than
Italians. So the Italian mafia was they
were scared of the Albanians.
Absolutely. 100%.
Absolutely. Even me for example when I
was in that club in the look the the
time mafia how they was functioning you
know when it's a club they all know each
other even it's not social club but they
all know each other. So now they know it
is guy who came from the war and it's me
and I was used to be known like Benny.
My nickname was Benny. Everybody used to
know me Benny. So now oh Benny came from
the war. So when I walk into that club
they always respect me. So but I never
worked with Italian mafia. Never had no
any we I had a friends you know we
communicated hang out but never any
business like being a Italian mob mob.
So it was friendly friendly but never
been in in in mob cross the business
line. No, never. Just with Albanian. Did
you know these guys were in the mob
before they approached you? No, I never
knew it until I start I think I believe
second or third trip. Then I start
becoming friendly, seeing them
gambling, uh using drugs, drinking,
party, you know, all these things and
controlling gambling. You know, they
used to control a lot of gambling stuff
in New York City. Albanians, they used
to control a lot of of the Italian
mobsters. You know, it's not like
Albanians was not like uh big group, but
small group, very strong, very loyal to
each other. Interesting.
Interesting. What else? What else was
the mafia into in New York? Gambling.
Gambling. Drugs was always drugs in
them. Uh prostitution always with them.
Rkitarian, extortion, all this whatever
is in a all the bad [ __ ] all illegal
things, they used to be under the
control of mafia.
And so let's let's talk about how you
got into drug running. What kind of
drugs was it? It's it's cocaine, sending
cocaine from United States. First I
start in Albania for few trips and then
from Albania I start doing to Italy.
Then I start dealing with the mobsters
of Albania, mobsters in Italy. Okay. So
you went So let me get let me just get
this straight. So they sent you to
Albania. Yeah. I flew from JFK to Italy.
Uh used to change flight in Switzerland
or Germany. Always it was a transit
Germany Frankfurt or Italy and then from
Italy to Albania. But mostly of the time
Germany and Albania or Switzerland,
Albania. So did you live there or would
you come back to New York? I will come
always back to New York. I just send the
drugs, bring the money. Send the drugs,
bring the money. So we used to take two
pieces, one piece, one keys of cocaine,
send it or two. Sometimes we used to be
two, three of us, sent uh six, seven
kilos and come back uh with money.
Did you have any fear about going back
back? Fear back to go where? Albania.
No, I didn't have no fear. None. None.
How would you smuggle the drugs in the
body? We used to uh we used to sold a
little bit those uh like a swimming suit
tight and make a piece of pieces in a
body. That time was uh it's a very I can
explain a little bit. Uh uh uh checks in
airport used to be very different, very
easy. You couldn't smuggle, you couldn't
walk. Like I used to have a nice three
piece of
suit, nice clothes and drugs inside and
tie it up good in a body and you you
pass it through before you do the trip.
Same clothes we wear and we go do test
one day before if it's going through
alarm detector. If it goes those closed
alarm detector, then you change it. you
do something close, no belt. So either
uh ring the alarm. So the next day I
used to uh uh smuggle the drugs, take
the drugs from New York, send it to
Albania or Italy and then Italy in a uh
sell it in the street. But I never dealt
in the street life, meaning selling in
the streets. Always I used to deal with
big guys like uh bosses street
transport. Yeah. Just uh you know not
smuggling and selling in the street.
ever dealt in a street cell. So, how
would they how would the cocaine be
packaged? Well, the way it comes from
Colombia, it would be in a Yeah. In a
piece break. Yes. Always break and you
wouldn't break it up. Never break
because if you break then uh they don't
want to buy it. So, always hard breaks.
I used to uh take uh it was time three
killers in the body. So, one in the
front and two sides. A three pieces
suit. Very nice
suit tie like businessman with a
suitcase with you. Pass it. No problem.
Wow. How many times did you do this?
I did easy I can say minimum 10 times. 8
to 10 times. Yes.
And what would the process be like when
you got to Almania? Oh, hanging out over
there three four days uh giving to the
people. We used to always have waiting
people with money just you stay 3 days
to one week not to be suspicious when
you come back in US so not to raise
suspicious how you come right away next
day so you stay hang out enjoy Albania
Albania cost one week and come back
bring the money no problem how much do
you get smuggling a key cocaine into
Albania it was uh kilo that time was uh
$55,000 a kilo $55,000 kilo so you're
smuggling about 3 kilos of Crap. Yes.
150. It was a time one shot I bring it
the highest amount of money.
$560,000 cash. Holy [ __ ] And that's all
for you to keep with the group. With the
group. Yeah. With a group. Yeah. Sharon.
We was always partners and sharing. So
that was that was your money. You didn't
need to transport the money and give it
to the Albanian mob back in New York.
That was 5,000. There was three full of
us all the time. Sharon, how much would
you be able to keep? It was a time
80,000 90,000 per kilo. I'm saying Oh,
per kilo was maybe uh per kilo I can
say$8 to $9,000. Eight to So you would
get paid roughly a little under $10,000
per kilo. Yes. Yes.
It's a lot bigger than uh working at a a
cleaners. Absolutely. Yeah. Big
different. It's especially like uh this
is a trick you know you think it's a big
money sweet money but that's the worst
thing today I would freely said I would
never even dream even advise anybody to
do any work like that because that's
short time what do you think would have
happened if you would have said no I
don't want to smuggle drugs in the
beginning nothing nothing nothing
absolutely I need the money. So, they
didn't care. They they have a
man. It's not everybody was uh
uh brave the way I used to with the
military experience, but there still was
people to do and still continue doing.
They don't do the way they did it. They
change all those things, but they're
still doing. Drugs would never stop.
It's a business. And so, what would the
meetup look like? How would you know who
you're meeting over there in Europe?
Yes, always through the friends, you
know, always to the names, always to the
mediator. So I go, for example, to one
of the family members from here in
Albania, not to my family, to the uh
members of the group and then they
waited for me in the airport. They
taking me home. I stay in the apartments
in Albania and next day they coming to
take the drugs, giving the money. Always
drugs, money, exchanging, never loan. So
always paid in the spot in the hand
given the drugs, taking the money. Did
your family know you were doing this?
No. Your uncle? No. Nobody. You don't
think they You don't think they picked
up? I never show to them money. My
family knew what I over there. It was
easy to believe because I was telling
them I'm doing two job. So I was never
telling my uncle how much I'm sending
over there because then he would know
what I'm doing. So I try to keep very
strict because I learned one thing in
the crimes if a person knows he can be
charged with the crime. So I learned
that part to keep the secret. But after
like few years uh my uncle found out I
did it. And then we're going to come to
the point. It's a funny part how my wife
caught me doing the drug dealing. Found
out it's very I didn't even believe.
Let's go.
I'm in a phone using different
language Serbian talking to somebody in
a Serbian because my wife is born and
raised in
US. Then I was never sure she she
understands Serbian. I never thought she
was uh five or six years old. They left
us to live in the uh valet called
Prussia which is in the Serbian side.
Her parents took her for a couple of
years to live there when she was young
and she went in Serbian school. I never
told my wife she was no Serbian. So I'm
talking in the phone home having a nice
conversation. I got
married. I hang up the phone. My wife,
she think I'm working restaurant. And I
took her to work with me. And then she
came out. She said, "You're a drug
dealer." I said, "How you know?" That's
what she said. How do you know? Yeah. I
said, "Baby, she's telling me you just
had a conversation about drugs. You're
talking to Serbian." And then she tell
me whatever I said. I said, "Gez, what
happened with me now?" That's how I call
up my wife to know what was the
conversation. I was uh we was making
meeting how we going to take the drugs
but I was home. So for my wife not to
know I told them look uh we're going to
talk in this language because my wife
she doesn't know she's American born you
know. I never thought American can learn
Slavic you know it was like common
sense. How did she respond to that? Oh,
she didn't like
that. She didn't like that. She freaked
out. If my family knows I marry a drug
dealer, that would be hate
me. Her family It's It's interesting
because before I got married, we met
each other. We dated. We met each other.
It's a It's a in a document. It's like
some part is like a love story. in uh I
met her in uh 1996 97 I'm sorry in
Albanian party and that time I was you
know my name was the best in Albanian
community I was everybody used to know
it's Albanian mob Albanian gangster uh
very good reputation driving Mercedes
uh few years in United States you know
not a lot of immigrants can do that
bulletproof car you know all these
things I'm uh I start dating her for a
few months and I'm picking the phone
calling her parents you know to get
engaged and the first thing her father
asked me what do you do for a living I
said I work in restaurant how long you
been here I said I've been here 3 4
years he said I cannot give you my
daughter you know you just want to marry
her because you want to become US
citizen but I was very granted asylum
you know I didn't need to get married
with my wife to become US citizen I said
look sir I don't need uh to get married.
I have my papers. I'm traveling to my
country. I don't have no problem with
the papers. No. He said and he hang up
the phone. I said, "Okay, if you hang up
the phone, then then we start I we
engaged and she took a vacation with
their parents. We planned everything and
uh so in June 967 they're going back to
Kosovo and they are in vacation and
after a couple of weeks I'm going in
vacation too. But I decide with my wife
to get married and I told where my
family I'm going to come in Kosovo and
make a wedding party and get married and
I'm going the parents in Kosovo they
don't want to give it to uh to get
married. They told her no and I said
look are you going to get married? She
tell her parents in front of me you know
what I love my hus
uh my boyfriend we was engaged and I'm
going to go with
him. She had a you know choice. It's was
20 years old 19 uh between 19 and 20. So
she left the family and come and got
married with me in Kosovo. And then we
come in US uh in uh 97 98 my first
daughter was born April 98 and the
second daughter was born in uh September
1997
1999. But those years then I start drug
dealing working always. I always used to
have a job so to be good to the
government side paying taxes and
everything but doing drug dealing.
And your wife she found out before you
got married or after? After she found
out after we got married and you kept
doing it. I kept doing that. Yes. Then
money was sweet.
Money was sweet and it's Did she come to
terms with it? Uh then I used to take
her a couple of times. uh few times I
used to take her with me when I used to
go then I start changing working myself
uh working with Italy only not no more
with Albania now I build a relation
friendship with Italians and I used to
work myself in Italy then I used to take
her with me just to look good in I
reports like a couple traveling just you
know like the customs not to be uh
suspicious in what we're doing so I used
to take her
just fly to uh from JFK to Italy. Always
using transit. Even going to Italy, I
used to always use Germany. Interesting.
So, what did the Albanian mafia think
when you started working for the
Italian? Uh they never thought I was
working for Italian. I was working for
myself, but I have a good relation
friendship with mobsters. So, nothing
like I'm under them. I'm also in my own
but not under mafia. So there was no no
no not suspicious anything. I never I
always keep my loyalty to Albanian
mobsters.
How did the conversation serve with the
Italians? Uh I learned language
they conversation start reputation
building up. I built my name from
Bensoners Brooklyn New York. So when you
build in New York you hanging out with
mobsters. uh you know always become
friends drinking together every night in
a bars and that's how you know build the
friendship with them how did they
approach
you how they see how they respecting uh
my people how they was respecting me
they used to know I came from the
military they used to know I came from
the war zone we used to have a
conversation when we in a club we always
talk you know I was there you know we
did this we did that you know then now
you become strong you because I barely
saw anybody uh being in a uh past like
me, you know. I was uh I didn't see
anybody coming from the war like the way
I came. So it was like only me in the
group beat. Of course, there was guys uh
in a street life way they did crazy
things uh beating, breaking legs,
breaking arms. There was a guys like
that. But to them was still they can do
that. But if a Benny
get crazy, he can shoot us. So Benny is
respected. It's a among oursel. We can
play and joke, but still we got to
respect him for his past. So you saw him
breaking people's legs. And it's not I
witnesses, but I knew it when they came
from the situation. I I I knew it. They
broke somebody's legs or, you know, I
hear the they shot somebody in a trunk.
They told me we shot somebody and left
him in a car in a trunk. They would just
tell you this. Yeah. Yeah. There's no
problem. And I know who was the person
who got shot. Who? Give me one example.
It's uh one of uh it's
Albanian. It's
considered like a traitor to them. And
uh I can I think his name because it's a
long
time. And uh they told me we shot so and
so. And then I found out uh he got shot
and they left him in his car in the
trunk. And then I know people got beat
up breaking legs, breaking jars and
stabbing knife and stuff like that. Uh I
used to know I went far. I used to know
son-in-law of the Jungari Carm. We was
in the same room in a prison. I met John
Jr. from Gambino crime family. I met uh
uh boss of Columbbo family. I met uh uh
Genovese boss with one of them Anthony
Spiro who passed away in prison. He was
my cell partner is he was a head of the
Genovese. Anthony Spiro was life
sentence. He was my cell partner. So I
spent time with uh uh head co-founder of
the bloods in New York, Pistol Pete and
his son is in a Florence, Colorado. I
was very close with him. He was my self
partner. Three years we went alone.
Excellent. Wow. Did you know who these
guys were at the time? Not the time. No.
No. In the beginning some of the mobs I
used to know like from the Gambino for
example, one of the two brothers Saul
and Tommy I knew there was a wise guys.
There was uh you know uh very strong in
a rank in a Gambino crime family.
How did you eventually get picked up?
It's again it's my past I mean in
prison. In a
prison I tell you this is the best part
of the story of the
life. That trip Sean I did not do that
trip. I was set up. I was not in
involved in that trip. When I get
arrested, it's a mistake of the US
government. When I say mistake of US
government, how informers was using
government? So informer, one of the
informers, there was two of them. He
came out from the prison and few where
he did I start lending him money. We
used to do lawn shark in a little bit
and he sent somebody in Pakistan for
drugs. He's he's dead today. He's
deceased in a prison. They said he got
killed or something but it's not my
problem. I don't care. He deserve he got
what he deserved. And uh this guy he who
set me
up he said one day we coming from the
Bronx to Queens. He said we used to call
each other son. He said be careful maybe
government one day arrest you. They can
tell you I'm in former but I'm not.
Sean, when you don't have no uh when
you're not in a system, federal prison,
look, you have a very strong good
experience. I uh see you part of the
life story. You've been in a se, you've
been in a intelligent agency and it's
excellent experience you have. But it's
a different my experience. You can know
the laws little bit. I don't know the
laws. Only time you learn the laws.
Today speaking with you, I'm like a
parallegal. I know the law very well. I
can tell you about the US laws. You will
never believe it. Mhm. So I'm coming in
for telling me, "Hey, be careful. If
they arrest you, they can tell you, you
know, I'm working for the FBI." I didn't
believe. One of my first cousin told me
one day, "Look, cousin, don't trust Nick
because Nick is uh FBI informer." I
said, "Come on, Nick cannot be in former
because he knows me. I come from the
war. I will shoot him. You know, he's
fearing me." But I learned all these two
years when I was friend with that
informer when he talked to his family,
he always mentioned my name because his
phone was tapped. So if something
happened, he get killed. So he they know
his family who he was with, you know. So
every time he's with me, he talked to
his wife or somebody of family and tell
them, "Oh, I'm with Benny. Benny, Benny,
Benny, Ben." And then one day he got me
paranoia and I told him, "Son, how come
you always tell mention my name in the
Oh, no, no, just because I love you."
Okay. One day we playing pool and
somebody called him from Greek. He was
deported. He was arrested and deported.
He stay in a federal prison. But this
guy went in a bathroom. So the phone
ring and ringing and
uh Cleonth the guy who got killed was
VTO. Albanian guy in a trunk from the
past story we was talking. It came in my
mind head. His name is VTO. Albanian
name. So he got killed from one of the
Albanian mobsters. He was shot in the
head in a trunk. So now Cleanth is the
guy Albanian who calling from the
Greece. This guy is in the bathroom, the
informer, but he's my friend, my
ex-friend. And I answered the phone, his
phone. And this guy cursing me, saying,
"Hey, you mother f, why you not
answering the phone? You effing snitch
this, that." I said, "Yo, who you
talking to? You know, I'm not Nick. I'm
Benny. Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, where is Nick?
He's not answering my phone." I said,
"He's in the bathroom." He said, "You
know, he's an informer." I said,
"Really?"
She had a lot of signs that says this
guy was an involved. But Sean, it was
too late for me. This is it coming in
1991. It's very
I'm government is very investigating me.
They watching me. So I'm very followed
from the US government, from the FBI and
DA. So it was no more only choice was me
to stop. But they still was building
case against me. So what he did, he
asked me to do a favor to send him
$21,000 in Pakistan. I did wire from the
Western Union. I make that mistake in my
name. But I was young and it's not like
uh I thought I used always myself to
say, "Hey, he is going to be scared to
uh snitch me because he knows my past."
But he did it. He snitched me and
uh I don't want to use that. It was
informal. You know, we're trying to be
more polited in the language so the
viewers not to think now I'm going rough
in the people and uh I sent $21,000 to
somebody who was in Pakistan and he was
connected to one of the most wanted. You
have a picture with Bin Laden. So he was
supporter of bin Laden. I saw picture
with him and Bin Laden after I went to
Pakistan. So now I wire $21,000 and this
guy comes back in uh somewhere November
1999 and he get arrested in New York but
he doesn't tell nobody. He gets arrested
in six or seven Albanian group of the
mafia. Everybody goes in jail only this
one get uh bail. So uh now everybody
rumors how come this guy get bail? Long
story short, he doesn't call me. He
doesn't uh come to see me. He owes me
$21,000. So, in former Nick, he tells
me, "You have to go yourself in Pakistan
me to pay you the money." But he was
setting me up. Now, it's not I'm not I'm
100% clean. I'm according to the US laws
and I'm witnessing today in this uh
interview, I was 100% clean. I was never
dealing with heroine, never dealing with
Afghanistan or Pakistan. All I was
dealing with cocaine with Italy, never
with terrorist. So I was always used to
think if I give them money so that money
is going to support terrorist. So I was
keeping myself because US was to me my
dream place. Mhm. So regardless what I
do with Italy and gangs and mafia, long
as I keep myself clean with terror
group. So I don't mind dealing with
mafia. I mind dealing with terror group.
So this guy sent me to Pakistan. I'm
taking a first trip in uh February of
2000 in Pakistan. That's my first trip
in my life in
Pakistan. I'm going over there not
knowing nothing country never visit in
my life. landing over there. I took my
wife with
me which is strictly over there bad but
I never took my wife when I was meeting
and now this informer has a good strong
relation friendship with one of the
Pakistani wanted he's still wanted today
he's in still a FBI wanted list and I'm
going his name I can say it it's not I
don't mind to say it his name his real
name is Mir Kazim Sha lives in a tribal
area in uh Peshar Mardan it's a city
peshar near the Afghanistan border so
he's still wanted from early '90s he's
still in FBI uh he's indicted twice in
eastern district court first trip
landing in Karachi Pakistan from Karachi
Pakistan I'm going to Islamabad Pakistan
in Islamabad I'm waiting for this guy
but this guy he knew what he's
wanted he was very part and he doesn't
come in my time. He called in hotel and
hotel tell me you have phone call from
guest and he said it's you. I said yeah
it's me. I'm going to come and see. I
waited one week 10 days he doesn't want
to come and see me. And I'm calling the
informer. I said that time he was my
friend. I said he said this is how it
works. You got to wait only in his time.
Then one time he he show up nighttime.
He doesn't want to get caught up in the
cameras and stuff. He walks in. He's
known
Amir aka Amir but his real name Mir
Kazim Sha. He said, "Hi, how are you?"
Good English speaking. You know at that
time he was easy. I was maybe 26 27 27
he was for sure 40
45. Said look you want to do this? I
said yeah I bring some money. I give him
a if I don't make mistake another
$20,000 cash to him. So for the trip so
he preparing five kilos of heroine to
bring it
back. So I took after one week 5 kilos
of heroine. How he did it? Sean it's a
good
part. When we was sitting I start
hanging out a few times. I want to visit
him. I want he took me to Afghanistan to
see how they grow in the opinion. They
have maybe at least five six thousand
security those Afghanistans with AKs and
stuff like that. But I was clean shave.
It's different than working for CIA. So
I was like clean western guy. No beard,
no nothing. So it's a little big
different than when I work for the
CIA. He took me over there. He said,
"Look, we're going to plan this trip.
But I want to tell you one thing. I know
I'm wanted in the US government." He
tell me straight up the first time when
I went in his house. He told me I'm
wanted from the US government. If I want
to be bad guy, I can send a bomb the way
I'm going to send you drugs and you can
leave it in JFK and blow the JFK. That's
what he told me in the first trip in
2000. We talking when there was not too
much uh al-Qaeda skin, you know the
al-Qaeda because you have experience but
not the rest of the world, you know. So
at the age 27 I meet him first time is
somebody who hates the uh US and then I
see picture with not just him with bin
Laden in a crew black and white picture
and he's in one of the corner bin Laden
in the middle he was a former Mujiadin
he was shot in Afghan war so he fought
with Mujiadines Russian war so he's a
former Mujiadin against Soviets so he's
not young and We talking nice
conversation. He taking me in
Afghanistan coming back and I stay I
think uh around 3 weeks for Where did
you go in Afghanistan? Do you know? Uh
near the tribal area. We passed through
the uh Mardan we went to from
Beluchistan site and uh we went I went
far as uh Kandahar. We went to Kandahar.
I was in Kandahar. I was uh uh one time
I think uh we visited uh for few hours
Maz Sharif. Mhm. So we spend those
tribal area where it's always control
from that time was complete control from
Taliban. It's not Taliban after
collapse. So time when I was there was
control of the Taliban and
uh nice. I came and bring the drugs. It
was excellent. What was the point of you
going to Afghanistan? He just wanted to
show you the fields and how is the song
he wants to uh bring me in. He wants me
to uh kind of recruit me in in debut. My
my interest was just to take that drugs
and bring it and get my money. My
interest was nothing uh uh be
al-Qaeda, not supporting terrorist. My
interest was to bring the drugs so I can
get my money and finish this. So I bring
the
drugs in a they bring the drugs, they
pass the customs in Pakistan. They bring
it in a bathroom after you do the all
the checkpoints because in Pakistan they
patch you down when you enter the
airport. They patch you down. But the
police of Pakistani police, this guy has
a old connection. Police brings the
drugs in a bathroom. So one day before I
meet the police outside and I know that
police going to bring the drugs. So he
bring west with a wearing himself. So
now when you pass the customs Pakistani
customs they open the luggage and they
put the tag that luggage is searched so
they don't have to go through and they
patch you down. You go the alarm
detector and everything and you clean
you pass the security before you board.
It's a bathrooms. So he goes, the police
goes first. He comes and watch me and I
follow him. So he goes in one bathroom.
He takes his west in the bathroom. He
comes out. I enter the bathroom. I wear
the west in the bathroom. So I'm a clear
in the customs. Now 5 kilo of heroine
west. It's in my body. So now I'm just
waiting to board. When you board in
airplane, they check the ticket. It's a
uh it was screened the bag at the carry
on and they know they not they don't
have to touch it because it was went to
checkpoint but drugs is in my body. So
I'm coming now from uh Karach to Shannon
and then from Shannon to JFK when I come
to
JFK I passed one time but first trip I
came from Karach to Canada Toronto.
I never came back. What I did, John, uh
Sean, we planned the trip for me to
avoid uh suspicious because when you
come in customs here, they ask you where
you coming from. And if you tell them
you're coming from Pakistan, they will
right away suspicious. But when you tell
them you coming from Canada, it's no
problem, you know. But in Canada when I
I come look uh Sean it's I want to just
uh to understand something very clear
you plan uh this uh kind of uh life in a
intelligent way you to avoid detection
you we planned this before how they the
government function was can avoid
tracing you. So when you come in from
Pakistan to Canada and in Canadian
customs I said I couldn't get a straight
flight for a JFK I have one day to stay
in Canada. So you just, you know, uh,
one word, you're lying to them,
protecting yourself because Canadians,
they think, okay, you're going to go
back to, uh, New York tomorrow, so they
don't need to ask you if you're bringing
anything, you know, you clean, just
transit one day. You understand? So then
when you come in in Toronto, the next
day when the customs in, you come
straight because in that time in Canada,
you pass the customs only Canada. When
you come in Laguardia, you go straight
in the street. They don't search you.
They don't ask no questions. You pass in
the customs in uh uh Canada. So I'm
clear. I bring the drugs 5 kilo. That's
the first trip. We want to make How many
passports did you have? All my life I
did maybe 12 or 13. 12 or 13 passports.
Uh yes. Where would you get the
passports? It's very easy. Everywhere.
Uh all like four or five times I had a
passport from CIA. Four times list. Not
those ones. Yes. Mine mine it's maybe at
least six seven times buying from the
people. They would just make them for
you. No problem. Any passports you name
it I couldn't get it. So you would fly
to Canada from Pakistan on a different
passport than you would and come with my
passport original travel document, US
travel document. I used to use my name
so I can be clear. I will not show the
passport. I had a visa for Pakistan
because you know to go in Pakistan you
have to have a visa regardless if you're
a citizen or anybody. Everybody who
would travel to Pakistan you have to
have a Pakistani visa. You you have the
visas in passport. So I used to use two
different passports all the time.
So would you go from the US to Canada to
Pakistan? Yes. Okay. So it just looked
like you were in can and then you would
keep that passport separate so it just
looked like you were in and out of using
two different passports.
Okay. Okay. And so how did you get how
did you get arrested? How did they catch
you? Oh, I'm I'm coming in uh May 2000.
Coming getting arrest when I went in May
2000. I'm going to make a short this
because we have a lot of story and he's
setting me up now. It's a clear I'm not
dealing. I'm going second trip because
those first drugs I bring he said it's
no good. informer telling me but
informer saying to the FBI and DA I'm
dealing with Ben different Ben not with
Nick all the drugs he's telling the
government I'm not dealing with informer
I'm dealing with totally different uh
source but he's a double agent he's
profiting himself he's using DEA and FBI
he's giving information but he never
telling the DA and FBI he's dealing with
drugs I'm dealing with somebody so he's
only informer former. So he's profiting
from himself in a drug dealing and he's
profiting from the government
paycheck. It's a double agent. Mhm. So
then uh he's telling me we have to go
you have to go back bring another five
kilos. I said come on man. I go I had a
bad accident over there in Pakistan with
horse. I'm not bringing drugs. two
different people bringing drugs from
Pakistan to uh Germany. In Germany,
somebody else supposed to come. What
informer does him and his wife sets my
sets up my
sister-in-law and my wife. So my
sister-in-law to come and bring the
drugs because his wife used to know my
sister-in-law, but I'm with those two
different uh carriers in Pakistan. So we
bring in the drugs. Then in Germany, I
see uh my sister-in-law and my wife was
in Germany and I got mad but there was a
last minute change plan. So he planned
so my sister-in-law get arrested and I
take the blame. So now we coming from
Germany to JFK they're letting me go
through informer give information about
my sister-in-law. So now I pass the uh
customs then I see my sister-in-law get
stopped and uh my wife and that time it
was on my daughter with them. Baby, this
is one of the worst mistake in my life.
I never forgive
myself. This is the worst
part. And then I walked
in. I walked
in and I said to the customs, I'm with
them. I said to myself, I have no
choice. But the agents, the custom
agents played me very dirty in my life.
Very unfair. In United State, you have
to have a Miranda
rights. The agent custom agent I I
remember his name to the day I died.
Jamal, he left the door cracked a little
bit and my baby, my daughter, year and a
half was walking around and he's in the
office with me, me and him. He said,
"Sir, we have two, you have a two
choices or you to take this blame or us
to take your daughter to put in a
shelter to somebody
else." and I didn't know my
rights. And I said to myself, you know
what? It was a very hard feeling
moments. I said, "Okay, let my daughter
go home. I take full
responsibility. I take all the blame." I
didn't do that trip. I said, "I'm a man.
I will take the
blame." And they let my daughter go home
and let my wife and my sister-in-law. I
took that. But I was happy if I was
given right. No. But I was happy I saw
my child going home because I make a
mistake. Every father would do that for
the
child. And I get
arrested, put in a
prison, sending me to
Metropol detention center.
This is not first time in a prison but
regretting my mistakes. How far I can
let that you know I was meant to die. I
was meant to be killed. I was meant to
be shot. But you know not to take a
blame for your
child. Every normal human being we do
that. And this is the part when I get
arrested and I said to myself, you know
what? It's okay. I'm gonna pay
this. I did
that. But we How old was your daughter?
Year and a half. Only a year and a half.
She's just was walking. The oldest
one before in the drug dealing time I
was involved with KLA. We missed one of
the good part in 98 99. I went from here
to fight to help my people in Kosovo
war. One US bombing was in 78 days
Yugoslavia. I was
inside fighting for my people. I was uh
also another war join Kosa Liberation
Army. I volunteered from US from New
York City. I didn't stay long 4 months
until the war finished. And then when I
came from the war I was very like
extremely good reputation like they used
to look me like I'm a killer. They used
to look me like
I'm two different wars men you know. One
in Croatian, one in Kosol liberation.
I'm very brave human. So now getting
arrested and not taking a blame, you
know it's I get charged with conspiracy
to import 1 kilogram. Were you a killer
of the second time? I was warrior.
What did you do in a
war? Fighting against Serbs with bottom
of my heart with not even thinking
second thought if I have to kill I will
kill. Did you kill? It was shoot. It was
shot. You never go to see victims. We
You never You always distance, but you
always shoot it. It's not It's a war. So
if I have the gun with me, I'm in a war
zone. I'm defending my country,
defending my people proudly. Proudly. If
I have to do with two countries, I will
fight. Even today, I have no problem to
fight for US. I have no problem to fight
for my country. If they call me today,
I'm volunteering anywhere, any zone. I
have no
problem. I get arrested. I've been put
now in a prison among the middle of
terrorist. All kind of groups. You name
it. Hisbah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad,
Al-Qaeda,
uh
a want to share one of the pictures
because it's very good pictures with I
have one of the pictures in a prison
maybe. uh one, two, four or five
different members of terror groups with
me in prison. I become very quick muisin
in a prison. You become what? Mazin. The
leader of Muslims calling for
prayer and become prisons are run from
the Muslims. Every federal prison runs
from the Muslims. So I become a strong
uh uh leader in a Muslim community.
I start dealing with the FBI and
DEA cooperating taking my
blame. When I took my blame, I was
promised to be released in a short
period of
time. I got two years hold pre-trial
prison. So in
911 I got caught up being in a cell with
one of them of four or five guys they
bring the bombing from uh Canada to LA
2,000 million bombing one of the
terrorist was my cell partner I can
mention the name it's not a problem it's
a public information it's you know Mktar
Huri Algerian born with uh U Canadian
and Algerian passport, Rasam and Mskini.
There was three or four of them. The
smiling bomb from Canada to Los Angeles
that time in 2000. So one of them was
myself partner and uh dealing with FBI
and DA but you know now 911
become so September 11 I'm in a cell
with one of the terrorist but he was not
uh convicted yet he was only arrested so
it's a 2000 and 2001 so he got arrested
in Los Angeles bombing and bringing a
prison so he become self partner with
First flight hit the twin tower. I'm in
the seventh floor. My room cell is
toward the Freedom Tower. You can see
both buildings, Hudson River, Manhattan,
and Brooklyn. I'm in Brooklyn jail. So
this now the first flight hit. It's a
morning 8:45 if I don't make mistake,
Tuesday. And this guy called me in a
prison. I used to be known Amir. Same
way it's nickname of the the wanted guy
Shamir. I choose that name because Amir
is kind of in Arabic. It's a leader.
So, so leader of believers. So now I'm
in a prison known prison name Amir. He
jumps on the bing band and happy God is
a great Allahbar. Allah Akbar. This is
from my leader. He's happy now. And I'm
looking, I'm a former KLA member. I'm a
very patriotic to United State. United I
was 78 days bombing US Yugoslavia. Now
I'm thinking if I kill this guy in a
prison or not, it's my mixed feeling.
How can be this human happy when I'm die
hard? I'm a Muslim, but I'm also die
hard patriotic. I love the country US.
So what I do and I tell him habibi come
on he said this is from my leader and
he's continued dancing we watch in the
first uh plan hit now it's coming the
second
flight in the second tower I witness
that because when I give some interview
I see the questions all this conspiracy
look it's BS I don't care how people
think I saw with my own eyes the second
flight I don't care what people think I
care what I see you can tell me Oh no,
it's not true. It's true. I saw the
flight. What's behind is not my problem.
What's behind but I know terror attack
was I saw the second flight. So now I'm
staying with him in a cell. Next day it
coming from FBI and CIA counterterrorism
unit. Complete institution is shut down.
I'm watching people jumping from the
tower. The both towers collapse. I'm
seeing all day. It's uh not the way you
see in the movie. I'm witnessing with my
own eyes. Regardless if I'm in prison,
but I'm still my heart now. Now what I'm
going to do, how I can pay back. They
start bringing lot of terrorist. The
first day in my life I met the
counterterrorism unit from FBI and CIA.
They came to speak to me. It was
September 12th, 2001. They came to speak
to you September 12th and the very next
day. So next day. Mhm. So this is how I
start myself to pay back to the US. I
said, you know what? If I get in prison
killed by helping government, I don't
care because I know I'm doing good. I
don't care how they're going to say, oh,
somebody was uh killed because it was
informal. No, no. Me, I was looking my
side. My side was I'm I want to be clean
to the Americans. I don't care how about
terrorists and Muslims look me. It's my
point was American side. They came and
sit down with me first day. This is how
my journey started with the CIA. From
that first day and then the first name
of the CIA ever spoke Sean Lind after
second day meeting with the FBI rings.
I'm walking they open the common area in
seventh floor. I'm walking with one of
the Taliban
member in a prison and uh they call in
my number
54820053 and I'm looking to corrections
officer over there quiet in a prison but
the still debris and burning of the twin
towers is there because my cell I was in
J71 J71 is pointed straight my window to
the twin tower only Hudson River
separates it's very close view you can
see it
And I'm going to the correction officer.
He's saying uh uh somebody wants to talk
to you. I said, "Okay." I go in the
council's office like a legal phone
call. He said, "Your attorney because
you have right to talk to the attorney."
And this is how I introduced. My name is
Sean Lind. I'm calling you from a CIA.
This is the clear conversation. We need
your help. Are you willing to help us? I
said, "Anything I can do from today, I
will do it." Right off the bat, he
revealed no question. nothing regardless
what how I felt that moment when my
child was with me. I forgot everything.
I said you know what I am going to help
the US intelligence agency. No problem.
And I tell them anytime from today you
can count on me and I start dealing.
They start bringing a lot of terrorists
from the streets. They're picking up all
kind of people from the street bringing
in prison. You know it was a that time
CIA was not prepared. The US agency was
not prepared for the 9/11. It's not
regardless how much they say. Look,
Sean, I read in a prison. I will mention
the name. Maybe you even met the guy.
The best ever two books I read was
Imperial and Anonymous. Two of these
book he was uh Mike Shyer. He was in Bin
Laden's unit 25 years investigating bin
Laden for 25 years CI agent. I read both
of his book the best books in a prison.
I read all kind of book. I read the book
of the George Tenant and that's the time
when I start it was George Tenanton
chief of the CIA and the chief of
operation was James Pavit running the
agency head of the CIA was George
Tenanton James Pavit was uh uh running
in the uh
field agency. So this is what my first
step with the CIA in September 12, 2001.
What did he tell you after after he
revealed that he was CIA that he wanted
you to work with them? What did he say?
He said, "We need your help. I know you
Albanian. I know you've been through
with federal prison with prosecutors. We
not like them. We're different than
them. When we say things, we do what?"
And uh now we're gonna bring a lot of
people. We're going to need to find out
who's who. Yeah. Because Sean in a
prison when you're in the beginning, you
speak right away because you need help
and you like you're in the middle of
ocean and you drowning and you see shark
and you think shark going to help you
because you're drowning. So in a prison
when you get arrested, you don't know
the uh laws. You trust people and you
tell them what's going on. So that's how
I got to come out through the lot of
al-Qaeda members, lot of people that was
fin supporting al-Qaeda given the money.
You know, the most dangerous was with
the terror group. Financial is number
one. It's it's not hard to find a foot
soldiers. How much is hard to find
finance? So for the intelligent agency
was important to find out who's
financing them to find out the who's a
foot soldier of al-Qaeda. So foot
soldier is not hard. They brainwash 18,
19 years old, 20 years old, 21, 22. Some
people they have a bad past in the life.
That's how they brainwash them. But
finance they get from higher level
Muslims like business people who wants
to donate charity. So they want to know
that. I start dealing with the CIA for
year and a half. I was in contact always
with agent Sean Lens. So I hope when he
see uh this uh interview he will
remember me. I dealt with him from uh
September uh 2012 to uh 2022 until I was
uh uh transferred designated to p uh
Pennsylvania federal prison. So roughly
2 years I uh dealt with the CIA in that
time.
What was what what what was in it for
you? Did they pay you? No, they was pro
they was promising me they're going to
sh uh cut my sentence and recruit me to
work agent in a uh street after. What
kind of stuff were you revealing to them
while inside prison?
I revealed a lot of the guys. For
example, there was al-Qaeda supporters
al-Qaeda financer. I met with a guy who
met bin bin laden after 911. So I met
with a group of Lakawana 6. They met
with bin Laden after 9/11. So I was with
them. I was with Yemeni group. I was
with uh one of the his member who was
kidnapped from the in the Ajati coast
early 80s. I don't know if you remember
when the TWW uh uh pilot was shot in a
hijacking his member, he was with me. So
it was a missing uh body of the uh
Israeli soldier and they was trying to
uh get the information but it was
something very interesting Sean uh CIA
uh was interesting to get information
from informers even people admitted in
things I'm going to give you a little
small detail in a short points you know
in Islam for example if you get
arrested, you can even say you're not no
more Muslim. They train them and uh it's
that's only one thing I don't like in
religion. If you get arrested, you give
up all the information and then you say
to the agency, okay, I can be with you,
you know, and then you lie. Then you go
in a street you become again terrorist
group in a terror members you know you
never get burned with terrorist group
even today I give you example myself
we're going to come to the points how I
was offered from ISIS to become leader
of ISIS not a foot soldier a leader of
ISIS even being somebody suspicious if I
was a CIA spy they called me I spoke
with very high ranking ISIS leader. Wow.
We'll get to that. We'll get to that.
It's a more to the story. Yeah. There's
a lot more to the story. And so when
they would bring these guys into prison,
how would you know who to target? Oh, I
was a mazim. They coming, we talking, we
eating, we praying together, we're
reading Quran together. So now I'm
picking. They would tell me, for
example, I would say one name now just
his last name, Sarah. He was a uh a
Hamas lead member. So he he told me,
"I'm not al-Qaeda member, brother. I'm
Hamas
member." So he never admitted to the
government anything. But he was telling
me because we want to know who's member
of al-Qaeda in a group in a prison who
member of Hamas or his Shia who's a who
follow who's the first three generation
of Prophet Muhammad peace be in him. So
I found out I tried to find all this
information through communication with
them and that's how I was sharing the
information with the CIA. What other
kind of information were they interested
in? So they would bring everybody in and
then you would figure out which
terrorist group they were associated
with if it's a threat or if it's
innocent. If if he did something or not.
If somebody was really innocent I would
say look my opinion this guy has nothing
to do. He was just uh pick up like a
wrong time wrong place. he has nothing
to do with this and I saw people got
released not just because my opinion but
you know at least they want to you know
how they acting in a prison and if
they're saying something and then the
biggest part when I met with uh uh all
these uh terror groups members I built
my reputation the CIA advised me so it's
they insurance was so I can build my
came among the group Sean these people
they talk if I'm in a prison with them
and they said oh we have a brother Amir
it's very strict Salafi he's willing to
fight against us if he come out from the
prison he going to be number one
mujahadin you believe or
not 98 to 99% of the correction officers
in a prison they all used to think I'm
going to be future leader of al-qaeda
from the prison when I come out but they
didn't know I was a in the CIA side in
the government side my bear was up to
here I learn Quran I read Arabic right I
learn for at least four months Arabic I
become imam in prison among terror group
me why Caucasian to lead terror groups
you have to be step off head to know the
Islam more than them especially
one day know I to the people who was
interest to the CIA I used to tell them
look they are they kidnapped my daughter
I took this blame I was not uh doing
this crime I was not involved you know a
lot of the fanatics when you tell them
you got arrested coming from Pakistan
they don't think you was coming because
you was involved from drugs they think
you was involved with al-Qaeda so right
away the trust came out for me to become
very powerful in a prison. I was strong
in a prison community and that's how CIA
advised me build your reputation in
prison so when you come out you can be
straight inside of al-Qaeda high ranking
uh position. So there was a long play
right from the get-go. Yes sir. It
wasn't just sort through these guys
figure out who they are associated with.
It was building your reputation almost
eight years almost
decade and uh learning Islam a lot like
I can freely sit uh and debate with any
Islamic scholar I'm good knowledgeable
any Islamic scholar I can talk about
religion no different from al-qaeda
members not foot soldiers we talking
high ranking al-qaeda that's how they
accept me by testing me how much I what
kind of knowledge I have in
religion. Then it came out very easy
using my family how they hold my trial
uh like a kidnapping.
How long were you working for the CIA
inside of prison?
from 200 September 12, 2001 to uh the
day I was released December and 2007 11
December 2007. All these
years I work with the CIA. I want to be
very clear. I work with the FBI
counterterrorism unit. All the agency
used to come and talk every time.
Anything Sean it was a lot of different
terrorist. It's a lot of different
members. I had
a from the Virginia group. I had the the
Iraqi war there, Ali Timi, Ali Shandia.
All these they are in Florence,
Colorado. All these group they was
getting arrested after the war in Iraq.
So it's not like just little bit Mickey
Mouse. It was a lot of groups of people,
lot of dangerous people. So I was always
uh among the most dangerous groups of
the uh terrorist. It's not like uh
something small, not like a foot soldier
like Lacawana 6 or uh the the I'm going
to come back to the story in 2016 when I
met the leader of uh al-Qaeda in a group
of five in the New York they got
arrested but we don't want to change the
uh subject from this part to the end of
the subject you know the story because
we're going to come out I as the leader
you will never believe what he told me
how he he wants to go become a leader of
ISIS was the reason why he wants to
become leader and why he wants to become
ISIS member. I I was in shock what he
tell me. I was in shock. We we talking
in a prison where he told me why he
wants to become ISIS member. Why? He
wants to have a woman. He never had
woman in his life. He wants to go go get
those slaves over there, those uh Yazidi
and uh take hostage of woman in Syria.
This is the only reason he become a uh
jihadist. That's it. Crazy. It's not for
religion. It's against religion.
Absolutely. And I can show it to you.
He's is now in prison in in a federal
prison. I said, "Brother, are you crazy?
You telling me you want to say fight
sake of God because you never had a
woman. I can date woman anytime you
want. You in America. He's a born
American. It's not a convert. He's born
US and he wants to become a ISIS member.
He's a ring leader of one of the five of
the group. He said because he wants to
have a girlfriend. He wants to have a
slave. He wants to have three, four
wife, five wives over
there. I know the guy who uh shot
another
jihadist just to take his wife. That's
not Islam. We're going to come to the
points you will never believe it. People
are not going to they're going to say
this is crazy. This is like you want a
prostitute. You don't want to fight sake
of God. This is how they brainwashed
them.
Wow. Did you ever feel like you were
compromised in prison? Like anybody was
on to you working for the CIA? Oh, look
at I will tell you this. I'm sitting in
a yard. I have a lot of tattoos in arms
and stuff. I have AK-47. And I have a I
have a tattoo rided from his Bulam
member is handwriting and I'm sitting in
a yard with a tank top and one of the
informers Albanian. He asked me what do
you have here? I have a AK-47 and it
says God is a great and I said that's
Bin Lad's name but he doesn't know
Arabic. In 24 hours son FBI come in my
uh in a federal prison. Remember not all
the agency used to know I have I'm a
connected to the CIA you know it's very
strict control they don't share the
information it's not like a lot of times
I was uh uh informs used to uh give
information about me think uh giving
information to the government uh I'm a
terrorist I'm a very fanatic but I was
linked to CIA you know I was never
fanatic but people. I was interviewed
from FBI in prison. I was interviewed
from DA in prison few times from the FBI
and this guy in the morning they calling
me
go RBNB meaning you're going to visit
the room and I didn't have no visit and
when I walk in to a VI
agents I'm sitting down my name is so
and so we want to know uh what kind of
tattoos you have in your body. They put
me in a strip room naked. They look my
tattoo. They're taking picture of my
tattoo. Can you tell me what you have? I
said this is God is great. This another
one I bear witness there is no god but
Allah. And another part here I have a
Islamist religion of peace in Arabic
sign of peace. All this thing they
taking picture and I laugh I started
laughing with FBI. I said I'm sorry sir
we keeping between us informer Antoine
give you yesterday information I was in
the yard working out he asked me about
this don't dependent with this informer
and I told him straight up I work for
CIA straight in a prison I told him the
FBI if you don't believe call so and
so and then they never came back they
said I'm sorry if you are like that we
apologize
They walk away. They took him forward
from the prison right away because they
thought if I go back in the prison I
will stab him or something because I'm a
leader to Muslim community in a prison.
Sean when I was a leader of Muslims I
used to have a bodyguards I used to have
Muslims. It was 150 Muslims. If I was
given order something to do in prison I
couldn't put the prison shut down
completely. They was going to do my uh
whatever I was telling to do. Mhm. It
was a time I had to prove myself I'm a
good Muslim. I had to beat somebody a
few times, not once. Two times I used to
beat a Muslim. One Pakistani Muslim, one
Libanese Muslim because they had the
problem with a gang group. Now gangs,
not to stab them. I was ordered to prove
myself. I'm a good jihadist. I had to go
beat them in a bathroom. I had to beat
them. One was bleeding. So I can prove
myself. I'm a fanatic. I'm a
sympathizer. I'm a jihadist. So, I had
to do that. And the CIA knew it. FBI
knew it. I did that. SIS the best ever
in federal prison. I tell you this, he
he has a your past 100% because he was
with the Navy and
Marines, Lieutenant Lion, Lions, the
best ever man of American deal in my
life. Lieutenant Lion, I hope you hear
that. He was the best man. He knew it.
Everything what I was doing with CIA.
Every connection, every conversation I
needed, I was going through him. Every
special things I was needing to do,
special visit with my family, he was
just telling me, "Blood him, when you
need to do that, next week I do it for
you." That was the best ever uh from
American agency who treat me good.
That's the lieutenant
lion in FCI Alenwood penitentiary.
Let's take a quick break. When we come
back, we'll talk about what what
happened after prison.
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helixleep.com/srs. All right, Blair,
we're back from the break and we're did
we're you're getting out of prison now.
We're getting ready to go and I feel
like we did the whole feel like that was
a whole interview in itself now. Now we
get into the real meat. But uh I am
curious. I mean, what was what does the
agency think that now that you're out
talking about this stuff with a
documentary and have you had any contact
with them?
I had one time
uh after I got
my granted refugee I mean the status
from the
immigration phone call for 2 minutes
private saying like you don't have to
worry too much now about documentaries
and stuff just enjoy your life you know
keep yourself low
profile and and here you are
look at uh Sean on I'll be very honest
if I had to go from beginning I swear to
God I would do it from beginning it just
the mistake of the
agency they promise you they promise you
the biggest problem I want to highlight
this the biggest problem at the US
government when you have a source like
me for example Mhm.
give a chance to have somebody if I have
a question because if I deal with the
agent I dealt for a year and a half if
he make a mistake I have no where to
complain or to ask questions everything
has to go through one Mhm.
the best intelligent. You have to have
another second source, you know, to see
what's going on. If the agents make a
mistake, because I know agent, I was not
perfect, John. I mean, I'm sorry, Sean.
I was not perfect, but I was the
best. When you said why, and people
wants to know why the best. Look, I was
not Afghani. I was not Iraqi. I was not
Syrian. I was not Jordanian. I was not
none of this. But I came out to operate
all of these
places. I went I believe strongly if CIA
was still going on to support me and
work. I believe strongly I will go meet
the bin Laden. Not that I want it. He
will ask to meet with
me because I came out to meet very high
ranking leaders and you know in
terrorism this is how they go. The way
they got my record from the people in
the prison families my name that's how
they go oh you know what the Amir let's
let me see what he is if we want to make
him a leader in Balkan to recruit uh
al-Qaeda members or how we can use
that's how terrorist work they desperate
to have somebody like me in a group it's
a white Caucasian somebody who have a
skills to pass any airport. Sean,
believe it or not, if you tell me today,
can you go in this country? I promise
you, in one week, I can go in any
country you point. Today, the way I'm
exposed, if you tell me if you can
travel to any country, you said one
week, 10 days, I will be in the country
you say. I have no problem. I'm not
young, but I still my head works. Mhm. I
can do still
things.
And the government agencies sometimes
they have a issue among theelves sharing
the
information. We're going to come to the
point there was a issue with them.
They're trying to recruit me again after
I came in US in
2015. But they said a lot of agency has
to be in a loop. You know I was not
exposed yet. The biggest problem, the
biggest mistake they make with New York
Times. When president say this lot of
fake news, trust me, it's a lot of fake
news. Why? Because New York Times put me
in the first page. I was arrested for
jumping something. I was never ever Sean
arrested in that. When they arrest me, I
don't want to come to the story if this
is like to the ends of the story. When
they arrest me in
2016, it was over 50 agents arresting
me. Bin Laden didn't have that kind of
agents. Helicopter with the sniper was
in top of my car wash arresting me. And
when they arrest me, I'm reading the
names of the agents. They all from New
Jersey, not from New York. But in
meantime, Sean, I'm meeting with head of
the intelligent of New York, John
Miller. I was meeting with him like with
you, with him and five of his workers in
my lawyer's office. Why would you burn
somebody who's meeting with John Miller?
Mhm.
Well, I mean, I think they keep that
tight to the vest because the more
people that know, the the higher the
chance that it leaks.
No, I think it's more than that. Yeah.
Really? What do you think it is? It's,
you know, agents agents they have one
problem. They like to cover each other.
Even if you're wrong, they want to
cover. Because when I give information,
Sean, I want to be very clear. It's I
didn't talk about
this when the al-Qaeda told me not to be
in a blue area in Pakistan. I updated to
CIA. Sean, I can tell you I was
communicating
worldnews.com. I had my code and
everything. And when I update CIA, I
said, "Look, please tell them if because
it was in blue area a lot of Americans.
I see because I was there. I watched you
know them. They don't know who I am, but
I know them. I can tell when it's
supposed to if it's a American agent or
not. Like you for example, I can tell
why you in that hotel. When I tell them
please share this information because
it's in a blue area. They're trying to
send suicide bomber. Believe it or not,
less than I think 24 hours there was a
suicide bomber and killed all of them.
And he failed to update that. when I
came uh to uh provide the information
from the field one back in the Balkans
from the Pakistan he said [ __ ] I [ __ ]
her up I said why Chris I failed here he
couldn't update it that's why all those
people got
killed I was not spying in a in an agent
but if he make a mistake he should say
you know what I'm sorry I was late I
couldn't update provide update to the
CIA this information. I did update it
from over there right away. I said,
"Look at it's going to be tomorrow after
tomorrow suicide bomb in this area and
there was suicide bomb and I think four
or five Americans got
killed. So I don't want a
credit. I don't want nothing. I didn't
work this job because I can make money.
I make money in normal life." Mhm. He
just respect me. Say, you know what?
Let's help him. Why he got to go through
the process of immigration when he was
working for us? I didn't want it to be
hero. I don't want to have a medal
honor. But at least you know I did that.
I have my family here. Who wants to do
this dangerous job? It's very hard
especially when they start hearing this
story. Look, while I talk to you, I know
who works for the CIA today from my
country. I I found out in my way it's
nothing. It's piece of garbage. He
doesn't even know nothing. So you cannot
have somebody in charge like that person
for example they take him to train him
they train me too I receive training too
I was trained from CIA I don't hide that
you know I'm capable to do anything you
tell me you want to do bomb I can do the
bomb is no problem and do you think
al-Qaeda don't want a member like me
even I'm exposed today they will take me
tomorrow even if I'm exposed until this
moment they will still take me they want
a man like me but why you want to avoid
to have to CIA somebody who can help me.
I couldn't translate thing. I couldn't
even decode the phone conversation. I
know how they communicate the uh uh
terrorist. So why you want to like make
and look it's it's a crazy we we talking
like it's very interesting part. I have
I had the sources I was receiving
information from inside of the job of
the CIA just
recently. Look at who I am. I received a
lot of crazy stuff from the CIA in
Virginia. We talking from the base. How
what CIA thought told people about me?
CIA tried to spread a rumor very bad
about me. It's not to be trusted. How
can I not be trusted? You burn
me. And then they said, "Oh, we cannot."
One of them said, "We we not denying,
but we not uh accepting." You know, hey,
I'm coming. I I show you the picture
with the Stinger missile. You think in
US soil you show that picture and you
don't get indicted from the federal
prosecutor in heartbeat, but I was a CIA
spy. I And I don't regret that. Never.
To the day I die, I'm proud what I did.
And I told my kids if I had to do again,
I would do it again. But please treat
me, man. It's I deserve to be treated,
you know. Tell him, "Look, judge, this
man doesn't need to be in immigration
court. It's our man. It's not easy to it
cost money to train somebody like me. It
cost Hey, agent came from the from here
to train me overseas. I was in a
training camp from the agent from US,
you know. So you spending all this money
and losing the source like that. Come
on. It's not normal. We'll get to go
ahead. We'll get to it. But I mean, were
they paying you? Yeah, they was paying
me. They were paying you? Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. So it was a business
transaction that you expected the
maximum the the highest amount I did
receive one time over 40 grand one shot
40 grand cash
and so I guess what I'm saying is you
are expecting more from them than just
the payment just the business
arrangement no not the payment I was
never accepting no more money just to
tell to tell the immigration judge look
he deserve to be with his family here he
did for his family he has a wife born
and raised here. Every country in the
world, Sean, they give a chance to
somebody. I did mistakes in the past.
I'm not clean. I'm not saying. But I
deserve to have a second chance to be
with my family. I don't need to be
arrested in a 2016 and expose myself.
Mhm. They couldn't be low profile, give
him his papers back and let him enjoy
his life here. He deserve, he worked for
us. He put his life in a dangers to
protect us, to save our country. So why
we don't go and just give a just
signature paper. I didn't ask for
anything. Just a paper tell to the judge
he deserve to be here. Let him be out
with his family. I was $50,000 bomb. 50
grand here for 5 years. And they
investigate. Sean I they recruit a woman
who clean my room my house I'm sorry
overseas and give her paper today. They
brought her from overseas. She was
cleaning my uh house in in the city I
used to I was born. I was alone. I was
paying her. I feel bad. Family member
just what she tell them. I have a
weapons. CIA knew it. I love weapons. I
had the trucks. This is this room. It's
nothing. It was four times five times
bigger than this. Full of ton of
weapons. But we pulled with the CIA from
bad guys from al-Qaeda members. Mhm. It
was not my weapons. Was the initial
arrange Well, let's we'll get into this.
Let's let's get into the interview
because I think maybe some clarity will
come to me on on that. But so, how did
you get out of prison?
First time or second time? First time. I
got I finished my time. You finished
your time? Completed my time. 8 years.
And so 8 years and 4 months. Just to
backtrack the I thought that they had
initi they had contacted you again to
infiltrate the terrorist networks but
that was that was the long game. They
wanted to they wanted to start with you
in prison for a longer so I can be in
this. Yes. Okay. So you get out of
prison. What happens then? I'm going to
the US embassy in uh
2008 walking
in asking because before I got out of
prison I want to just so you can be
clear two times I was interviewed from
DoD Department of Defense 2 months
before I got from the prison they tell
me when you get back home you want to
work for us because maybe you're going
to look good if they deport you I said
yeah no problem and what's going to be
exchange we'll bring you back When we
promise you, we do it. We're not
federal. This is always their word. When
we promise you, we're not a federal
prosecutor. CIA, keep the words. This is
what they tell me. They promise me
they're going to be bring me back. Help
me. They said you are going to be safe
for rest of your
life. You're just going to keep your
mouth shut. Not to expose anything. I
couldn't keep my mouth shut if I'm if
you left me in the middle of
nowhere. I get interview. I'm going back
to US embassy in Macedonia, walking in
meeting Mr. Devon, the best ever CIA
agent I met. If he was in uh still
working with me, I will be maybe more
happy. And I hope you hear that. Mr.
Devon, he's the one who I started
working with them. I did polygraph test.
I signed the contract agreement,
everything at the embassy. And they tell
me from today you work for
CIA. You have a paycheck. You have all
expensive paid all the travels whatever
you're going to need it we are here to
support you all you need we need it now
you to collect information to see if you
cannot come up to al-Qaeda we are
interested to know if is bin Laden alive
or dead and if you work yourself in a
circle of al-Qaeda we'll be very happy
and we're going to help you and I said I
have no problem they helped me they was
giving me money no question they paid my
vacation for my wife and kids in Turkey
and all these things. It's no problem.
And even today, even today, I am very
grateful to the immigration. They
allowed me to stay. Today, I'm clean
with the laws. I have no issues with the
laws. Absolutely. I'm like normal like
it just the problem. I cannot travel
overseas. They don't give me no document
to travel overseas. I can be here enjoy
my life. I'm working, paying taxes,
everything. But it's still not enough.
It couldn't be you know right path my
wife is born in race I have right to do
adjustment of status so I can become US
citizen my wife is born here every
country who has a wife citizen they
still can give a chance they don't
deport them my three kids are American
born my family is all American mother
father sisters brother all of them there
was even they passed away they was
American citizen so why you abusing me
why you And I would never go in a media
or documentary, even this documentary,
if they was not going to arrest me in
2016. But they arrest me. I look like a
piece of garbage. You train me. You know
how much skills I have. What do you
want? And I believe I also believe Sean
sometimes maybe you know some different
informers they want to get the credit.
They think maybe oh he going to become
terrorist. Never I commit suicide
myself. I hang myself. I will never go
against the country my kids born. Never
ever. It's
impossible. So maybe informs spread this
rumors to the sources or maybe blame me
can be al-Qaeda member or ISIS member.
Never. Sean again repeat it. I would
never I will hang myself. Never be
al-Qaeda member. No terror group. I have
a beautiful kids born American. Mhm. I
don't go against my family.
So, you get out of prison, you get
deported.
Yes. How? And then you go through
immigration at the Macedonian embassy
where you meet your No, I have nothing
to do with immigration. I'm going to the
Macedonian embassy and meeting with the
CI agents. Okay. In embassy, meeting
with the CIA agents. How did they
contact you? When I go over there, they
put me in one room, small room. I give
my ID. He came down. He said, "Give me a
half hour." He go in office. He said,
"Welcome back. We know who you are." All
the details. He said, "We're going to
have to meet the next week." How did
they initially contact you? Was it a
phone call? No, I went to the myself.
You went there yourself? I went to the
US embassy in Macedonia myself. Mhm. So
to see my rights to come to United
States. Yep. And then they told me, "We
know who you are. Come here." Then they
make a meeting next week with me. We
spent six, seven hours. They said,
"Look, we know what happened with you.
We know what you did in the past. We
know what the prosecutors did, but this
is the best time for you. Everybody
knows here now. You got deported, how
they got arrested, your family, holding
them, this and that is the best time you
to be covered, to work for us, and we
can bring you back." This is my first
step. How I started with the CIA in 2008
field agent. Was there any discussion of
pay at that initial meeting? Payment
payment I had in beginning was uh first
week I started with €400, €700,
€1,200, then uh €2,500 a month and the
whole expenses. And they said we're
going to help you to be with your
family. Nothing more than that. No extra
payment over this. But they said always
we're going to keep you safe. And so
when did you take the polygraph? I think
after a month or two if I don't make a
mistake. My first trip in Pakistan when
I came back just to see if I'm double
agent or just for the CIA. How long did
that take? It's it took a couple hours,
3 hours. I think 2 hours. One polygraph.
One one time. Yes. You passed the first
time? Yes. First time I passed. Right
on. Not a lot of people pass it. I
passed first time and they told me and
they
told look Sean we're going to come to
the stories you would never believe what
I did it and even people they're going
to say what are you lying I don't Sean
in United States if you make a story you
commit perjury you get charged it's a
federal crime I cannot come and say hey
this is who I am or this is what I did I
cannot come and say I was trained to
build a bomb so this way I can show to
terrorist I can build a bomb so if If
the federal prosecutors know that in 2
minutes they will arrest me. I said that
a few times.
Mhm.
So you get recruited, you have the
meeting the next week. What is the next
week that meeting? The next week meeting
uh we signed the contract. It was three
agents, two male and one female. I
remember like today we spend like five
six hours or that day in the embassy and
then they instruct me first they said
build a uh enterprise in your city among
the community and then next trip start
using the phone contacts you had in a
prison. I had her from Yemen, from Saudi
Arabia. I visited I went I was guest to
number one the strongest grand muy of
Saudi. I I was invited. He never knew
what I was spy. I was his guest. I used
the sources from family prisoners from
being in terror charges. That's how I
came out to build my name so good. Like
I didn't even believe there was a time I
didn't even believe they trust me so
much. I said to
myself if I'm a sick or liar or
something how come they they invite me
so much? But I found out from the
people. I used to use sources you know
just to build my reputation they can
bring me in. And so what did the
training involved?
Training. You said you received training
with the CIA. Yes. for first I was uh
how to communicate with people language
skills and um they advise me how uh to
do uh weapons uh deal in case so this
way if the al-Qaeda try test you or if
you need to pull some weapons they teach
me how to do this to like we pulled lot
of bombs and explosives from bad pe guys
hands in the Kosovo in Albania too so I
took with the trucks, all the uh
explosive TNT, C4, you name it. Rocket
launchers, Stingers, all of them. And
all with my hands. When the CIA took
them, they took like in a package like
all they when they bring me trucks, CIA
brought me trucks. They trucks, I loaded
the truck myself with my people, you
know, you have to take the detectors and
all this, you know, so not to explode.
So I took one by one all the detectors,
all the explosive we have mines,
landmines, all this stuff, put it in a
truck and the CA took it and the
destroyer. And so how long was the
training?
It was a
like like I can tell you easy like three
four months you can put always training
when I meet with them like every uh
first week second week 8 hours 9 hours 8
hours it was a time three days we didn't
never come out from the place with the
CIA 3 days. Mhm. sleep day and
night how to deal, how to communicate,
how to use the weapons. Three days never
come out from the place with the CIA
with three agents and me. Where was it?
Where? In Macedonia. In Macedonia. Yes.
They used to have a safe houses
everywhere. Then they used the bone
steel in the military base in Kosovo.
And so you get recruited in Macedonia, I
guess.
You go through the training, they tell
you, they want you to infiltrate
al-Qaeda specifically. Yes. And they
tell you to do it through your previous
contacts in prison and just to grow your
network even wider. Yes, sir. So, who's
the first person that you reached out
to? The first person I was uh uh
sentenced 25 years or 30 years in a
federal prison for supporting al-Qaeda.
His name is Salim. He was in prison. He
introduced me in his family in Pakistan.
And what did you ask him? Oh, I told him
when I come out from the prison, I'm
going to join brothers. The everybody
knew it. When I come out from the
prison, all the fanatic, all the
terrorist knew it. The first day they're
going to deport me. I'm going to go be
joined jihadist. The all of
them. And who did he connect you with?
with uh first he took me his brother to
somebody and that's how he started with
Beta Massud the ring leader of al-Qaeda
in Pakistan. So right off the bat it's a
second time. Second time. Yes. And what
would these meetings be like? For when I
went when I meet him when I give all to
them they took all my clothes off. They
took me those with those motorcycles.
They changed the car. They played. Look,
I want to say this. or people can know
they I know sometimes they don't trust
easy but they they use word oh we we're
going to put you in a trunk because if
the checkpoint is police we are from
here local so if they see you foreigner
we're going to give them more excuse to
question us and to check us the
Pakistani agency so I said okay they put
me in the trunk of the car for a few
hours I was riding inside of the trunk I
didn't see nothing roughly roads and
whatever you know then when they put me
inside I met Abu Muhammad al- Masri the
he's still wanted he's still in his life
because I was reading one of the books
recently for Abu Ali Sufyan he did it he
was a former CIA for 10 15 years after
911 he wrote the book and I see his
picture the one I was meeting with him
he put in a book he still wanted so he
was there it was another jihadist from
Bos uh Egyptian but born in 14 in a
Bosnia. He speak Bosnian. So when he
speaks I speak Bosnian too. So when he
talk and then he tell me brother you
still want to be with brothers. I said
alhamdulillah that's why I'm here for
and then he hugged me and he said to
introduce me he never introduced my name
to nobody only Amir or Abu
Medina in so not to be known where I'm
coming from. So Amir or Abu Medina is
our new mujahadin with us. Wow. Were you
nervous at all? I mean did not at all
because I had the strong support only
nervous. I was just afraid not to be
leaked. So then I get killed. And how
would you communicate back to the CIA?
Worldnewro.com. I tell you here is I
give you the detail. CIA never knew it
when I was in the field.
Sean, if I had to update quick
something, I used to call my wife and
talk to her in Albanian and she was
updating. But this is what I broke. This
is where I make a mistake because I was
told nobody can know this. But my wife
knew it. I told my wife, Sean, I told I
told my wife because I thought if I get
killed, they're going to think I got
killed in a drug dealing or something,
you know, at least somebody to know I'm
working for the government, you know, so
they can be one day proud. Look, my
husband got killed working for CIA, not
being drug dealer. So, this is the
reason I told my wife. So, my kids grow
up, they don't want to uh hear, oh, my
dad got killed in a drug dealing
somewhere in Pakistan or overseas. But
to be proud, my dad was killed because
he was working for our agency to protect
us to keep us safe. So this is why I
told my wife and then when I need to
update it, I give a quote to her world
newswr.com and I have all those numbers
to click it and then she was writing
whatever I tell her in Albanian because
over there was more easy somebody to spy
on me if it's a different language in
Albanian. It was not Albanian. Nobody
was Albanian over there. in al-Qaeda at
that time I was now yes but that time
was nobody Albanian only me so I was
feeling safe and I was telling my wife
okay tell them this tell them that and
then she was going computer and updated
CIA never knew it my wife is updating
from New York City they always knew it
I'm updating from
somewhere those internet cafes and stuff
like that but I did it also in internet
cafes I did update the CIA and I used to
look around where it's poor
neighborhoods I used to go like I'm
looking some Quranic stuff and then I'm
going to my website then I'm deleting
complete and I'm coming out but I was
always careful because you know when
when I first time I give oath I stay I
think 3 4 days if I don't make mistake
in al-qaeda camp then after 4 days we I
went back and stay in a guest house so I
had a chance to
update there was like there was not
al-qaeda sean al-qaeda rec recruit me
the way I saw They thought I was going
to be leader to recruit foreigners in
Balkans. Mhm. This is was the goal, you
know, not me to be like a foot soldier
the way you saw in a Iraq throwing a RPG
and stuff like that. They was not
looking me like that. They was looking
me like to be high ranking al-Qaeda.
Mhm. So there was this the interest of
al-Qaeda in me and this is was the best
opportunity for CIA, you know, to have
me like that.
And so what was it inside? How would
world newsws.com work? I will show it to
you uh if you want to later from my
phone. It was very like you go and you
click in world news comes news then you
have in a site log in you don't think if
you don't know the website and then you
have a log in when you go log in it it
comes a little small place you put your
code your numbers 50 my I had a numbers
I don't want to mention that I don't
want to you know something exposed is
not good and I was clicking that again
was giving me another code and then It
was open me and those communication you
see writing typing and then logging out
and dis uh disappear everything another
option I had I used to have some white
papers somewhere when I travel and if I
need to write it I will be write it if
they stop me I couldn't put that white
paper in a wall and melts everything and
you don't see nothing no more you just
put the uh white paper yeah everything
it would they be able to give send you
traffic through worldnose.com. Yes. And
they used I used to have also GPS some
places when I used to be in a weapons or
if I was in danger or if I was tracing
something or I want to buy something, I
used to uh you know click it and they
used to know when I what button I click
it and they know where I am the
location. So it's connected. It was a
small piece like that. A beacon. Yeah.
What did it look like? It's like a
yellow and black. It's you don't talk.
You just It's a tracing device. Yeah.
And uh has those buttons. If you if I
was in a dangerous, I will put click it
three times and they will try to help me
if I'm in a dangerous situation. So if
it's something for location, I used to
just click one. If it's for weapons,
it's two times only three times. I it
was a piece to click it. If I was in a
danger, so I needed help. I It never
happened. So I never needed I was never
in a situation dangerous. Wow. That's
that's surprising. That's surprising.
And so you Okay, so let's go let's go
back again. So you get the training, you
meet with the head of al-Qaeda in al in
Pakistan or one of the top guys in
al-Qaeda in Pakistan. And the whole
premise of all of this was they wanted
you to set up a new cell of al-Qaeda
where you're from. Become a leader. And
become a leader. Yes, sir. Become a
leader of al-Qaeda for Balkan. What did
they want that cell of al-Qaeda to do in
the Balkans? So to see if it's going to
be threat, if it's a threat to US
troops. If it's threat to somewhere, if
it's threat, because it was planned.
We're going to come. It was a plan. They
thought I'm coming here to
attack with few guys. For example, I
have a
today's now we saying they are our
friends uh like a new leader but I know
somebody was in a group you have in a
picture he was in prison with me got
deported. He would never ever be pro-
US. Never. And I'm I was close to him
like my brother and I know him like if
he if he can nuke our us he will nuke
today but maybe today they think is a uh
now become a good friend is a freedom
fighter of Syria. is not he's a leader
of uh uh freedom fighters in Syria now
but he was al-Qaeda member he become
ISIS member and I I used to we're going
to come to the point I used to
communicate live from New York City FBI
was telling me to communicate with them
in 2015 16 17 no not 17 I'm sorry 2014
15 16 I was communicating live I spoke
to leader of ISIS from New York City Abu
Omar al- Shashani live like the way with
you but through the uh uh uh signal I
was talking he begged me and I told the
FBI look tonight 10:00 I'm going to talk
to them and I give the number and uh
they they hear that they see it they
have we talk in 2015 he said please
brother come to us we'll give you
anything you want we need you here this
is
ISIS
wow They taught you how to make bombs.
Absolutely. What kind of bombings? With
TNTC4, all kind of explosive. I can do
uh uh with pressure cooking things, all
those, you know, homemade stuff. Mhm. So
everything I can do anything you you
name it, I can do it. I'm a good in the
guns. I'm a good with the weapons. I'm
very good. I I can tell you I I use I
shot with you name it all the US
military weapons. You name it, I shot
with every one of them. Snipers, RPG,
it's a piece of cake. You know, those
kind of weapons is nothing to me. You
know, I'm like that. And I love the
guns. So, it's compromise in both
things. Training that me and in my
nature, I love them. I cannot leave no
guns. And so your training was building
networks, surveillance, counter
surveillance, how to make deals, how to
make bombs, weapons training,
communications training. Do you want me
to give you one specific one time when
we was training in when we was with
agents in the field with the CIA, they
throw me somewhere in the middle of
crowded community and they want to maybe
three four cars of CIA to follow me with
their sources if they're going to catch
me. You never believe. Whole day they
watch me, they couldn't catch me. Whole
day they following me. You want me to
tell you what I did? Second quick
uh plan of me. I went in a mosque. Now
they know me. That day I was with
tactical clothes with a 511 black. So
now CIA agents they following me. They
see me. When I came from the uh truck uh
pickup truck, they know me. Uh blaring
was with tactical and I'm walking in a
mosque. Now they're waiting for me where
I'm going to go. What I did is Sean I
went you know in a mosque sometimes you
have those gabas you can wear so you can
be pray and clean and the scarf and
everything. And now all the agents this
is how they smart 10 or 15 of them. I
don't want to you know insult them. So
now they all waiting how I'm going to
come out you know with the black
clothes. I wear all the white clothes. I
took a scarf, you know, everything and I
walked out and all day I walk away from
them. They couldn't find me. In the
evening when we was a place to meet,
they all watching me. What? They're
going to catch me. They couldn't find me
nowhere. I'm just knocking to the window
and they got stuck.
Oh man. This is this is the trainer they
had. And then when I told them now when
I knock the window I'm knocking them
with a black claws. They said please
tell us right away how you come out from
that location. And I put the you know
those clothes they become like that. And
I pull from out inside of my shirt scarf
and everything. I said this sir [ __ ]
told me how you thought you going to
wear this so quick because I thought you
guys going to watch me with a black
claws. Did you was uh our training was
you know if you're going to catch me.
Yes. So this is my skills. So I need to
do whatever it's good for you not to
catch me. This is what I did.
Maybe you should be training them. I
think so. I tell you too. I think so. I
should train them. Who would have
thought? They would have never thought
of a change of clothes.
When we're going to pull the weapons,
I'm going to come to the point when we
pull the weapons. Mhm. They was drunk.
You can't believe we pulling like this
room weapons. Two or three CIA agents.
They're all drunk. They couldn't even
talk. Imagine you make a small mistake.
Whole the city goes in the air. Yeah.
And I did all myself with them in my
city with American
agents and then you don't want to come
to the immigration said let me sign for
him. Come on man. Mhm. Mhm. And so,
okay, let's let's back to al-Qaeda. So,
you meet with al-Qaeda. That's the plan.
They want you to set up a terrorist cell
in the Balkans. They want you to lead
it, be a highranking al-Qaeda official.
And so, where do you go from there? I go
back to Balkans, update all the uh CIA,
whatever I went through. And then
al-Qaeda thing, I'm recruiting. And I
did go I bring a lot of people. A lot of
people was interesting to be al-Qaeda
members but I give information to the
CHA. How would you recruit? Oh, they
very easy. Europeans, Balkans, soon as
they find out you come from Pakistan,
soon as they see one stand, you've been
in Pakistan month and a half, they know
right away why you've been
there. They see money. Uh the
recruiters, they thought al-Qaeda
financing me, but I had the CIA money.
The al-Qaeda thought they helping me in
Balkans people like from the charity
because it's no paper. Mhm. You know
al-Qaeda cannot trace me while I'm
getting the money in Balkans. They
cannot trace me but CIA knew it. I had
all the money from CIA. All the new
bills whatever I needed they was
offering me anything. Here the money
sign here get the money. And so what was
your pitch to recruit to see who who
wants to be al-Qaeda members? And how
would you broach that? How would you
start that conversation? Brother, I I
was uh uh I was meeting our Mujahadin's
brothers over there. Alhamdulillah, you
know, they're doing good. They're
interesting to recruit brothers, you
know, so we can fight this infidels.
They're very easy in that. And
especially in the young generation, it's
like nothing. like really no look at uh
Sean today my country is becoming
breeding ground even like 90% it's uh
pro- US country but two weeks ago group
of seven I know I know the leader we're
going to come up to talk about the
leader his leader was uh killed from the
drone in Assyria and uh just seven
members they went and killed the best
cop in city who was investigating them
in front of the house they should
execute him just two weeks ago in my
country all al-Qaeda
members if if I tell you what kind of
threats I receive in my first interview
before crazy and I come out to even
investigate myself who threat me I
cannot even believe some people that
threat me if I was next to them they
couldn't even look in my face how they
would scare of me but they send me
threat crazy they're going to be hate
me. They're going to chop my head.
They're going to chop my pieces in a in
a uh messages. I don't fear them.
Believe me, I don't fear them. I don't
have Look, I don't have no problem to
die. I'm not going to live 500 years. I
have a little bit to go. At least my
kids know what I'm I'm proud. I have no
problem. I will be hero to my family if
I get killed because I was working for
US government. Because I was protecting
my
family. America is not in a war with
Islam. One, it's a lie. two is with
Albanians. America is like God for
Albanians. So I'm proud to die for
America. I have no problem. I will be my
people in in Koso. They will consider me
hero. I don't care for fanatics and
radicals. Group of people. I don't care
for them. They're minority. For me it's
important majority. Majority is my
people. How many people did you recruit?
Well, I can easily say it maybe 30 40.
30 40 people in what time span? Easy.
Like nothing. like nothing like a year,
two years in in two years. But we're
talking uh very fanatics like
sympathizers coming to try to support me
maybe two 300. And what would you tell
them the mission is? My mission is to
open the cell so we can fight America
here. I'm a uh I was uh appointed from
al-Qaeda leader. I'm
here to recruit you guys. And who would
you specifically target
those? You can see how they talk in uh
places when they was gathering when we
was in a Muslim communities and I picked
the one the more fanatics when they say
openly we got to kill Americans, we got
to do this, we got to do that. Those
people I will pick all the time. So you
would go you would essentially be friend
go to parties. You you would you would
invite them for party political
conversations
show the guns all the time. I used to
show the guns all the time. Look at what
I have. I'm ready to fight. They used to
see or sometimes I used to record myself
with all kind of weapons and I said,
"Brother, you you want to see something
black and white?" Yeah. Here it is. Look
at the video. Oh [ __ ] brother. You got
all this? Yeah, I got everything you
want. But those are all
destroyed. But I used to buy from
different
fanatics. There's a lot of guns over
there. A lot of all kind of stuff. How
would you communicate back to al-Qaeda
from Albania? When I go over there back
always when I go back. Always in person.
They never use phones. I hear the uh
somebody from here said, "How this guy
communicated with the phone?" Sean, it's
a stupid question, man. There's no such
thing. You can sit down and make a love
story in a uh terror camp and it's no
phones. They change my clothes. They
give me own clothes. So you have no
rights. You cannot you cannot even smell
to have a some uh phones with you. But I
hear the questions they writing. Oh, how
this guy communicated? How he used the
phone? They would never use the phone. I
did not use the phone. I did not use the
phone. I used communicate face to face.
I was in the camp. How often would you
go to the camp and go back?
Like every let's say if I stay one month
in Pakistan or one month in Syria, I go
back stay two three months in Balkans
and then I come
back. I remember I was in al-Qaeda camp
in capital of ISIS where they declare
capital ISIS Raqqa. I was there. You
have a video life and you know how I
come to record it. I said look we need
this video. I need to record for
propaganda to act like I'm a visitor but
also to recruit people and they let me
rec record
that in a camp not outside in a camp.
But this is why I'm saying no this is
where I use the language what the CIA
train me where I need to learn and how
can I use things. So you can tell them
look we need some video to show people
to recruit who I am. If I go tell them
this is who I am and I don't show
nothing, how are they going to believe
you? So you got to show them. So this is
what I used to use skills of the
language so to recruit them and to have
evidence where I am. Okay. And so how
did where did you go from Pakistan? I
used to go back to Balkan, Turkey, fly
Pakistan, Turkey, Turkeyina,
stay couple of months, come back, go to
Syria, go to Jordan, go to Lebanon,
Egypt, Saudi Arabia. Why would you go to
all these places? Oh, everywhere
fanatics, everywhere CIA point somebody.
They used to tell me we want to know so
and so what he think. They used to tell
me who they was interested. They used to
show me pictures on them. And how would
you get yourself in there? How would you
get yourself through the reputation
through the through the imams in my
city? IS know now I did 8 years and 8
years and four months in prison. I was
deported. I was separated from family. I
cannot see no more my family only if
they come back. So now they think this
guy is going to revenge them. He has a a
long history of in military two
different wars. This guy is not going to
play. He's going to go revenge
Americans. So this is the dream for me
to do these things. And so what would
the point of view I guess what I'm
asking is what is the point of you going
from Pakistan to Syria to Saudi Arabia
to
Iraq to did you go to Yemen? because I
had the sources everywhere. Yemen was my
last trip that day. I was going to meet
Alawaki. Mhm. Before we get there, just
ask it. So, you went from Pakistan in
the Balkans to Syria was your next stop.
Yes. Because I used to have a fanatics
in prison and through them, for example,
I had a Syrian guy I go meet. Okay. In
Syria. So, these were this wasn't a
connection from the Pakistan cell to the
Syrian cell. This was all back from the
contacts that you had made in federal
prison. So you were you were working all
of your contacts from prison to get into
all these 100%. And now did the Pakist
did the
Pakistani al-Qaeda cell know that you
were in Syria? Yes, they did. Yes. What
did you tell them you were doing in
Syria? Meeting the brothers I used to be
in prison. They have a family members to
al-Qaeda
and they had no inclination. No, because
remember only in al-Qaeda can know
somebody who controlled al-Qaeda. Couple
of men, one, two, three people where
they are the cells and stuff. Not all
the al-Qaeda members know everybody.
It's impossible. Never, never happened
that. So let's say Bin Ladino who was uh
running al-Qaeda after him, he used to
know for example who's who where, but
not everybody else. like we have a
Khalik Shake Muhammad bin
Alib Abu Zubed all of them they didn't
know all the members but somebody who
had the control it can be one or two not
all al-Qaeda how did it go in Syria
al-Qaeda yeah when you met him me how I
go I go met the man who used to be it's
in a picture he was like my best brother
I when I saw him with 14 years old 13
years old slave last time in 2015 15 or
14. I got shocked. He show me the slave
from Yazidi lady woman girl. I have a
kids that age. I said come on brother.
This is sad. Our religion allowed us.
You are 45 years old. What do you need
that 13 years old? I hated that. Come
on. I have two
daughters. You're going to take 30. He
show me I I was talking to him life. He
show me the girl 13 years old.
Imagine I go back tell my child my
friend is 45 years old he's having sex
with 13 years old. Come on. This is a
religion. Absolutely not. Absolutely
not. If I can kill I will kill
everybody. I have no
problem.
Religion tells you not to bother them.
Religion teach you you take hostage. You
try to trade or do something, treat them
very good and with dignity, not to rape
them. I know the religion very
well. So they're going off the
religion. It's nothing in Islam what
al-Qaeda does. They're doing nothing. I
tell you, I give you another example.
Jordanian pilot got burned
life. Quran Sharat I very good. Two
years I spend only start the Sharia
law forbids to burn human body forbids
regardless your enemy what he does to
you. If you believe in God you have to
pray make a do a make a prayer to God to
change that thing but not you go
burn. So if you imitate the way they say
you doing the way your enemy do to you
then you becoming just like them. So
you're not following the Islam, Quran
and Sunnah. You going against complete
Islam. So this is what they're doing.
You were inside al-Qaeda training camps
three or four times. What what kind of
training are they doing? What was that?
It's experience like small weapons. Like
for example, one time I remember we went
in one of the places like 3 4 hours
driving from Karach there. It was like
very old uh those old houses, ugly
garbage. We were sleeping 15 20 of us in
the same place like like a sardine
stinking garbage you know and they was
shooting with RPG AKs you know running
showing some skills target all these
things.
What were the conversations like? How to
kill Americans. How to fight
infidel. Every word to fight infidel.
How to kill the infidel. What would you
report back to the CIA? The way I was
seeing that everything the way they're
telling me that's how I the CIA knew I'm
a CIA. So I was telling they want to
kill infidel.
What what specific information did they
want out of the camps?
uh specific for example when uh uh when
I meet uh when I met one this leader uh
who was wanted they asked me I was going
to meet with him they told me you're not
going to meet because maybe suspicious
you are a spy Sean he was wanted and I
went and meet him and I want in a court
against him in court US federal court in
case if he get arrested I can be witness
is against him. I went and meet with
him. He couldn't believe when he saw me
like that with a beard. He hugged me.
Now he tell me you're my brother. Now
you can fight with us. CIA didn't
believe. Another
thing I want to say it. I think you have
this passport or different one. Sean, I
was in Saudi
Arabia. You know when you in Saudi
Arabia, you cannot get visa to go to
Pakistan. Mhm. You have to be resident
of Saudi Arabia or citizen. When I say
to CIA they invite they calling me from
Pakistan to go to to go to Pakistan from
Saudi Arabia. CIA said they trying to
scam me. Maybe you're dealing with the
lowlevel al-Qaeda or sympathizers. It's
impossible you to get the visa in Saudi
Arabia to go Pakistan. Sean I got the
proof. I got the visa in a Pakistani
embassy in Jedha. CIA would never
believe when I update them. I sent
screenshot. They thought it's a fake. I
took a flight from Saudi Arabia straight
to Pakistan. They didn't believe it. I
said, "Sir, I'm in a Pakistan. This is
my passport." When I came back, I went
straight back to back Saudi and
Pakistan. Then from Pakistan, when I go
went back to Balkans, when I saw
documents, they freaked out. How this
Pakistani intelligence felt? two days in
a row I was interrogated
from ISI from Pakistan intelligence in
the embassy two days whole day they
thought or I'm spy or maybe I'm al-Qaeda
member I said look I'm here for business
I'm I'm trying to open a leather factory
business I want to bring leather from
Pakistan to Balkans it's a
BS and I got the visa and I went in
al-Qaeda see I didn't believe even when
I show said how it's possible I said sir
We got to uh communicate diplomatical
way with them. How they give visa like
that? And I got it and I can prove it to
you. I went in Saudi Arabia. I met with
uh Abuif. He was 9 years in prison with
for al-Qaeda in Saudi prison. He was
fighting with Bin Laden. He was die hard
mentor of bin Laden. I met with him in
his house.
CI said how you got the source sir I'm
here with Abu
Safe I'm mentioning his name he was
eight years in Saudi
prison CI don't believe I was his
guest when did you start smuggling
weapons
in from 2000 right away after uh I was
deported and so how would how would that
work so you're build cuz you you didn't
mention that until I thought maybe it
came later and you were smuggling
weapons from all these different
terrorist organizations and getting them
into CIA's hands to destroy them.
Correct. Yes, sir. And so was that was
that part of the initial recruitment or
was the initial recruitment just to
No. After I got recruit, they see how
much
I I'm having skills. I'm capable to do
everything.
like there was uh look when we did one
mission I don't know if I give it to you
we was uh there was a seven agents CI
agents and me when we did one uh uh we
took the weapons and I asked I said
please I want to not to make me feel
good I want to tell me how I did this
job with this
weapon one of the CI agent said I would
trust my mother to be with you the way
you did the
I will never be able to do I don't have
that kind of heart because I will be
scared if I make a mistake I will kill
myself and I did that. That's how they
uh spread me everywhere. They want me
now everywhere to be. And like I said I
mentioned I thought like I'm better than
James Bond. I was doing so good. I
didn't even believe myself. But you know
what is the good
part Sean? When you know you have a
support from a powerful agency, you have
more will to do things because you don't
think you can get caught and put in
prison. You're free to do things like
you can read the instruction. I'm free
to do anything just not to kill uh
Americans or diplomatic or anybody. If I
have to shoot, shoot in the air. Don't
aim to the if you get caught up with US
troops, you surrender yourself. Pretend
you're sick or something, but don't
shoot.
This is how I was my I was instructed
and this is I did it. Whatever they told
me, I did it the way they told me. What
do you think helped you the most in your
mindset doing this?
Mr. Deon. Mr. Devon. Yeah. The best
agent star. I can I can tell you he can
be running the CIA with no
problem. I guess the worst one. Chris.
Chris. Why was he the worst?
The day one I got
shot, I swear to God if he was aiming to
Chris, I would jump in a gun. Me to get
killed, not the CIA agent. That's how I
was loyal. I swear to God. Never forgive
that. He left me like a dog. He was
there. Yeah. He left Iran. When they
come and rescue me, I don't see him.
Never no more. And he he and he tell the
other agents tell him you a new own from
today. Bullet wound everywhere. I
couldn't even drive the car. Let's talk
about that
experience when you got assassinated.
What was going on that day? I'm going to
get a or when they attempted to
assassinate you. Let me let me correct.
Before that uh before March, it was a
February. We supposed to have a meeting.
We was planning to go in Yemen. In
November of 2009, I received death
threat in my phone. November of 2009.
And I sended the phone to Chris. I said,
"I received this message." He said,
"Don't worry. Sometimes somebody try to
bluff and threat, but it's nothing
serial." I said, "Okay." I was preparing
my territory to go to meet with Alawaki.
February. He said uh Abu communication
never mentioned my name always Abu Oal
Abu can we uh change meeting of February
for March 31st uh 2010 2:00 I said no
problem please bring your GPS
coordination the passport I had one
extra passport from them and
uh something I I track somewhere from
the weapons I said okay no problem and
bring a two picture uh passport for
picture size of yourself. I said,
"Okay." I go like a rude usual. I'm
parking my car under the garage. Where
is the CIA safe house? Like super super
careful like very good not to chase me.
I left the house 6:30 7:00 a.m. Changing
two different cities. Sitting there,
sitting here so to see if ever somebody
follow me. Nobody. I go to the garage
two floors under so if it's any tracing
device so not to track that. So I park
my car deep to ground down. I go I'm
entering the safe house. I see old man
car in the grass and I greet him. He has
the white kofi. I say that you knowam
alaykum salam. No problem. It's caring
the flowers. Big building in the
penthouse. It was a CIA safe house. The
way you see me stretching in a stretcher
taken out. I see two guys coming down.
Very calm me. I'm between. I open the
door, enter. And now I see they got
separated. But I never thought I thought
maybe the
Macedonians entering and they pulled a
gun, shot me four time, not once.
The first bullet went through my leg and
I collapsed pretending like because
there was not professional shooters.
They're not somebody who is trained, you
know. I can see, you know, not having
skills in that. And he pulled the gun
right to my head. Jam the gun. I hear
click once, twice, three times.
All he
said they couldn't kill
me and I'm not moving
because when I see the way I saw them I
thought they are like not the guys they
have experience like myself for example
I can control myself in a shooting and
stuff like that I'm very calm not you
know I didn't move I saw blood
everywhere I said let them go
out. I was
thinking let me go in a basement because
I don't want to bring blood maybe they
coming back and if I go in a basement
they will come behind me. If I go in
fourth floor maybe they come they trace
me and they kill him and me. It's a
moment I said to myself you know what
I'm going to
die. I'm not going to betray them. I
don't want to think CIA oh he was a
double agent. He killed our agent. I
stay for a moment. Blood was not
stopping. I pulled myself quick. I
couldn't move much. I start bleeding a
lot. Like I thought I got the van here.
But I couldn't even look my leg because
bullet went through. So I didn't know
where I got shot. I see bleeding here,
bleeding in the back. Like it's a quick
moment. And I went to fourth
floor. We used to have a court. If you
see newspaper in a floor in a Macedonian
writing, so that's mean Chris is inside.
So I don't have to put the key so
neighbors to hear I'm opening the door
and I see Chris inside. And he said,
"What happened?" I said, "I got shot."
He said, "Who did it?" I said, "I don't
know. Two
people. I'm going there." He pulled his
belt. He pulled my belt. He tied it up.
He's, you know, I stop bleeding and I
see he's calling for backup for, you
know, to help us and he's talking
continue. Our man is down. Our man is
down. I need help. Our man is down. And
I I can hear that he had this different
phone using with them saying we are in a
way. We are in a way. We're going to
rescue. Just, you know, careful control
situation bleeding and I start losing
the control. Then the I guess neighbor
saw the blood. The local police came
over there and the secret police came.
They almost clashed with each other.
Local police and secret police. Secret
police supposed to be our friends from
Macedonia. So now Chris is talking to
them. It's our man is down. But he's not
opening the
door. And all I see when they open the
door, I see AK-47 right in my
head. Now I said they're going to kill
me because they see me with a bear. Now
he's a he's a white clean American. I'm
with a bear. Now they're going to think
maybe I'm trying to kill him. You know
the it's a 10 15 people different two
different groups of agency. It's
like and I lose the control. Chris gone.
They took me with a stretcher. They sent
me one day or two days in one hospital.
And that moment when they came after two
days they give me stash of money. I
don't need the money. They said from
today you in your own from hospital.
That was it. Yeah. That's the worst
part.
How did you get burned?
It's a good question. A million dollar
question.
Sorry. I've been through everything in
my
life. I've repeated many time today. I
don't have no problem to die. But to be
betrayed like that, come on. Central
Intelligent Agency, the strongest agency
in the
world. You rush into judgment. You
didn't investigate
anything. Cameras
everywhere. Sean, I went after one week.
Sorry.
You want to take a break? Yeah, a few
minutes. Let's take a break.
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I know everybody out there has to
be just as frustrated as I am when it
comes to the BS and the rhetoric that
the mainstream media continuously tries
to force feed us. And I also know how
frustrating it can be to try to find
some type of a reliable news source.
It's getting really hard to find the
truth and what's going on in the country
and in the world. And so one thing we've
done here at Shan Ryan Show is we are
developing our
newsletter. And the first contributor to
the newsletter that we have is a woman,
former CIA targeter. Some of you may
know her as Sarah Adams, call sign
superb bad. She's made two different
appearances here on the Shawn Ryan show.
and some of the stuff that she has
uncovered
and broke on this show is just
absolutely
mind-blowing. And so I've asked her if
she would contribute to the newsletter
and give us a weekly intelligence brief.
So it's going to be all things
terrorists, how terrorists are coming up
through the southern border, how they're
entering the country, how they're
traveling, what these different
terrorist organizations throughout the
world are up to. And here's the best
part. The newsletter is actually free.
We're not going to spam you. It's about
one newsletter a week, maybe two if we
release two shows. The only other thing
that's going to be in there besides the
intel brief is if we have a new product
or something like that.
But like I said, it's a free CIA
intelligence brief. Sign up. Links in
the description or in the comments.
We'll see you in the newsletter.
All right,
Blair. We're at the safe house. You get
shot. I can tell you're very
disappointed at how the agency treated
you after that and abandoned
you. We asked, "How do you think you got
compromised?" I mean, I'll bet that's
gone through your head day after day
after day. How do you think you got
compromised?
The way I looked
at one day they did a passport for
me and the passport they did it it was
real my name but I was not from that
country. The people who did the
passport they stopped me one time in a
border for four or five hours
investigating me. Me I was with three or
four fanatics. One of them was arrested
for terrorism in the
border. Same people who came out to help
us that day when I got shot. Same one
was there. Sean, you know how Balkans
function. Regardless how friend can be
over there with you, they still have
like a family like me. I have a some
trusted person. I tell look at I know
this. So I strongly believe agent make a
mistake leaked me my
name and they uh leaked the information
to the
fanatics. This is what happened. So now
for him not to be
blamed I don't know what he put in my
jacket behind to the CIA. He can say
anything I don't know and CIA they never
asked me.
So he could have said
anything but they never give me give a
chance to hear my voice like today. Mhm.
I did nothing wrong if I have to start
again I would die for this country. If I
was that day the guy was trying to shoot
Chris. I swear to God I will put myself
in front and get killed. Never
betrayed. Doesn't matter. This job is
dangerous job.
I'm very proud what I did. I did for my
kids and I did for
us. And I say that early. All my family
are
Americans. Albanians has nothing to do
with terrorism.
At what point did Chris leave that day?
Did he leave when the police showed up?
Yeah. As soon as they took him. Yes. The
Chris left that moment when the police
two groups of police came. one's
supposed to be our friends because we
used to have a quote if it's friend of
Chris that's mean know they are our
friends so when they walk in that day it
was our friends supposed to be and after
all this I investigate I did research
myself somebody who was trying to help
me March 31st he got killed May 9 after
month and a half him and three four
friends. Maybe he become victim because
of me. He was trying to help me. He got
assassinated. If you see the van, you
would never believe how they kill him.
Because he was trying to help me to find
out who tried to kill me. How did they
kill him? In a in a minivan, they
execute him. All four guys, not one. All
four of them. All four. My
friends in Macedonia.
If you see the van, you would think
there was fire 10,000 bullets in that
van. He was trying to help me to find
out who tried to kill
me. Somebody's covering up
somewhere. Sean, I went after 6 days,
April 7, my birthday. It's April 8, one
day before my birthday at US embassy in
where I was recruited. I was with a can.
I couldn't even walk. And I parked the
car right in front of the embassy so
they can see
it. I entered the embassy. Somebody to
came out to uh talk to me. They told me
in embassy you cannot drive no more that
car from the agency from the CIA. Don't
drive no more. Don't come here no more.
Don't come to Macedonia. You are in your
alone. And I tell them simple. How come
it's a cameras in front of the safe
house everywhere? How come you guys
didn't find out who did that? I don't
know, sir. I'm just passing a message.
When I came from the embassy, Sean, in a
Macedonian border, I was threatened from
Macedonians.
Agents, cursed me badly. Don't have an
effort coming in our country. This that
I'm a friend of Chris is telling me at
the border. And I tell him straight up,
f you and him. If you want to kill me,
kill
me. So something is behind covered. So
what is something for I will advise in
this
interview intelligence agency, US
intelligence agency is the best but they
need to investigate the source
sometimes. It's nobody perfect. I'm not
perfect. I did make mistakes. I was not
perfect spy. But trust me, I was
diamond.
I operated everywhere. I was never
exposed. Never was nobody suspicious in
me. I did very good. But I was not
perfect. But agent maybe make a mistake.
Why you don't question him? Why you want
to lose the source? Sean, I can say to
you this is I want you people to hear
that. Believe me, I'm better than 100
CIA agents. I was better than 100 CI
agents. I
was CIA agents. They can do job. Don't
take me wrong, they are intelligent.
They have a money, they have a sources,
everything. But I was inside. CI agent
couldn't go where I went. Mhm. CIA agent
couldn't sleep in between al-Qaeda
members. I slept with them with 15 of
them. I was in a rocka sleeping with 15
20 of them. Imagine one of them just
smell I'm a spy. They will burn me life.
But I did that. But see Asian would not
do that. So this kind of hard I had. So
if you have a man like that, why you
want to lose
him? I hope they listen and they correct
the mistakes. They always have a source.
If they have a spy, let's see what he
said. Maybe the agents make a mistake.
We don't need to rush to judgment and
just ban him. Let's help him so to find
the truth. What's behind who's
behind? I mean, unfortunately, that's
just kind of how it works, you know? I
mean, they they recruit an asset to do
the dirty work. I mean, it's in the
outline, throwaway spy. Yes.
And that's just how it that's just how
it works. But the best will be to make a
changes.
You want me to advise you one thing what
US complete US agency government did
with my help one thing
good and I know I don't care they don't
want to honor that Sean here used to be
very easy to make a US
passport I instruct them how it's
easy and I'm not saying 100% just my
help but believe me US passport rules
was changed because of me I teach them
how to change because there was piece of
cake to make a US passport. A piece of
cake two days you could make it. It's
not you and you can get US passport.
United States changed that because my
help I used to I told them who doing
that from inside job how they doing a
lot of people got the passport even
terrorists going get that and me I blur
him. I teach in that but they never say
that. They always that moment said you
did very good job but after who
cares I did a lot of things good
but they don't care that's you say it
that's how agency works if they have
that they ban you this is how they never
come to admit or accept I I was in touch
with George tenanton two times from
federal prison remember I'm mentioning
that from j with George tenants twice in
2003 and for two times with the head of
CIA from federal prison. So if I was
like that
person changing your agency, I don't
need to know that. But have somebody to
investigate that, you know, make agency
stronger. We need sources. It probably
has more to do with blowing their own
cover than absolutely assets because
once your cover is blown, they don't
want the rest of their their
their staff, their employees burned so
they can continue on doing work. But so
in the hospital, you said they came to
you in the
hospital with a stack of money. Yes. And
what was that conversation like? The
conversation was we're going to escort
you to one of the borders night time.
They asked me to escort me to Albanian
border. I said no. They escort me to
Kosovo border. They give me the money.
They said you have to be in your own.
Don't ask to speak for with nobody from
US agency. You have to be safe. Then
when I went after 6 days or 7, April 7,
they told me to uh get away that car, I
found two tracking device in my car at
the mechanic shop under the car. Two
tracking device in that car CIA
purchased for me.
And that's the car that they said don't
drive anymore. Yes.
What point did they tell you have a nice
life? Don't go high-profile
in after my immigration case uh finished
in 2022. So they were in contact with
you again after the
private no
name friend of Chris.
That's what they said. This is a friend
of Chris. Yeah. Bashan, you see how I'm
sitting with you? Believe it or not, I
used to get the information from inside
CIA in this few years from the source
who's very close to the CIA.
American American not Albanian American
who's very close to
CIA
and the source told me what they even
saying about me.
What were they saying? It's crazy. I
don't want to even I feel bad to say it.
Why? Because like they use you. They use
you and you nothing. Like I don't want
people to be scared to work for the
agency after this. I don't want to use
those things. They they want to make you
look so bad. And the source telling me
source is very close to CIA every day
with
them. Source who run Iraq situation
war. So they don't think I came out to
get to somebody who I can get
things person who
was planning in Iraq side in Iraq war 3
4
years and this is what they're saying
about
you. I said why Sean if somebody wants
me to be bad person maybe I believe
strong that
too they want to to have a business more
work so maybe this guy go crazy no
Sean I'm proud to be
American maybe somebody
has crazy ideas what were they saying
about you it's I don't if I say it it's
no good people to hear
Did they paint you to be a double asset?
No.
Never. Never double asset. Like who can
do that job or it's it's it's bad to say
it in the air. I don't want to, you
know, because people going to think
then, hey, I would never do this job. If
they say that about him like
that, they're going to say that about
me. Same thing.
So they completely washed their hands of
you. Yeah. And then in one way or
another painted you out to be bad. Yeah.
And then came back after after 2012, 13,
14. They still want to communicate with
me. They call my lawyer in New York
City. He's in US soil. I don't know how
to uh we can take him from US soil. And
I told them, I told my lawyer, tell them
you don't have to take me. You tell me
where you want me to meet, I can come
and meet. I don't need your help. You
never help me to take me somewhere. I
came my
way. We talking after I got burned,
after I got shot. Why did they Why did
they contact your lawyer? What did they
want? Because I think they was scared
something when there was a Belgium
bombing. They thought I knew what some
of those
guys and Syria I praised the ISIS. They
knew it. I was in Syria. I knew it in
from 20089. They was bringing weapons
from Iraq. Sean, I was there. I was
witnessing trucks full of the weapons.
This is what's going to be. But I never
knew the name ISIS because still was
al-Qaeda. Then they changed to Jabat
Nusra, Da Islamia. Then they changed to
ISIS. But it's same people. It's not
they didn't go away. It's the same
people. Al-Qaeda changed the name. It's
the same fanatics. It's never different.
I had very strong source inside of the
Syria. I spent three four months in
Syria and they found out maybe it's a
plan in US soil. I was communicating
with them. Believe it or not, somebody
got killed with a drone just because my
health from New
York. They tell me to talk to him and I
talk and they never say because of me
they kill him. But after two days I
found out he's killed. But he was
talking to me in a phone in New York
from
Syria. But they never we talking 2015.
If I was bad like that, why are you
talking to me then?
So, it's what's interesting is earlier
you were saying all the communication
goes through corers, personto person,
face to face. That's it. Yes. And now
we're talking about you're on a phone
call with one of the top guys in Syria
who gets killed in a drone strike. Yes.
And so when did that switch? When did
they switch from one ISIS uprise? One
that they was using telegram system.
They thought they cannot trace nothing.
It's Russian control. So they was
talking very free. just know one ISIS
came out okay in telegram it's that app
telegram from Russia so they was using
that and signal two of them and signal
too so we was communicating with them
through those two
things it was a time I told them what
time I'm uh going to talk to them from
here from New
York and they
was listening the conversation Sean uh
viewers going to want to know if is it
true or Not Sean. If I communicate with
the terrorist overseas from US soil, you
end up in uh US penitentiary. You get
arrested in 2 minutes. So this is me. I
was communicating from US soil with
terrorist. If I was not CIA source, I
couldn't get why I didn't get arrested.
If I'm lying, you know, because people
look, you have a sick people everywhere.
They come like one in Denmark. He worked
for CIA a little bit for a couple of
months and lunatic. He now I hear these
drinking and stuff. He was not Muslim.
He was converted in Islam in a prison.
But I was not like
that. I was strongly skilled person.
Are they
aware? Do you think that you're coming
on the show? I don't think so. Are they
aware? No. Maybe. Maybe this two three
days they listen my conversation. But if
they're going to like it, I'm 100%
they're going to hate it. I'm 100%
they're going to blame you. Why this guy
bring this uh uh source here now? Uh who
knows people how they going to think for
us? How it's going to be our image?
Are they aware of the documentary? Oh,
yes. That's what they told me. Yes, they
told me, you know, go stay calm with
your life. You know, you don't need to
uh expose yourself in that two-minute
conversation. That's what they told me.
But I said, I don't need advice. I don't
have no problem to die. I wanted people
to know what I did. I'm not dirt person.
I'm not garbage the way you think. I'm a
normal human being. I'm father of three
beautiful kids. I go on live with normal
life. What did they say about the
documentary? They didn't say nothing. I
didn't steal here after nothing. Did you
tell them you're doing it? Oh, yes. Yes.
And they didn't say anything. No, they
didn't say
anything. I told them I'm going to put
the book and it's going to be six
episode movie also after the
documentary. I'm planning to put the six
episode movie.
And I do still have a contact there. I
don't contact them. They contact me.
I don't contact them. You know, we
missed uh Sean, when I got shot, it was
one more mistake in my side. You see, I
say it. I have no problem to admit my
mistake. I had a secret number. If I'm
in danger situation, I have to call that
number at the CIA, which is Washington.
It's free. I can call from everywhere
only if it's a dangerous situation in my
life like if it threat something I can
call that number so she can help me when
I didn't call my wife because I told her
if I don't call 48 to 72 hours you need
to call this
number and she called them they answer
what is the message related this is uh
uh message from Abu and what is the
message I can take. She said my husband
disappeared and the phone after that is
disconnect and she tried to call again.
No more ringing that phone. That's the
mistake I make in
this all these two years or 10 years
working with the US intelligence agency
and one time with the
weapons I uh the way they told me to do
the weapons I guess I guess they thought
I was not capable to do in professional
way not to be dangerous. I did it good
and we changed the spot where we going
to get the weapon slash. It was a crazy
bombs, landmines and everything. And uh
Chris was with a crew with two three
cars with the CIA and I changed the
spot. He came in my city. I told him not
in my city because everybody knows in my
city know me. God forbid one human see
me with this beard and six seven people
Americans with clean shave I will be uh
suspicious right away. So I did changes
myself. I switched the place. I told him
not in that place but through the
communication not the in a plan like
last minute and he got angry in that. I
said I got to save my I got to be safe.
I don't want to expose me and you're
going to tell me f yourself and you in
your own yourself alone. I changed that
spot. I did the job. Excellent. All I
did that mistake to change the job and
my wife call in the CIA. Two mistakes I
did with CIA. The rest never anything. I
was perfectly clear in time. Whatever I
was instructed to do, I went 100%
according to the instruction from CIA.
Where would you procure the weapons?
I used to have Were these Were these
coming from Syria, Pakistan, Saudi? Were
they coming? The weapons in Balkans.
They were all coming in Balkans. In
Balkans. All in Balkans. But the
uranium, it was coming from for Russia
through the Germany. We did
investigate and it was a possible. They
want to build the dirt bomb fanatics.
They want to sell it to me knowing is
going in al-Qaeda's hand. There was a
lot of money involved and we was
investigating that one of the source one
of those two brothers got shot. We not
mention the name because still they
investigating still it's under you know
I don't know what go what's going on
with government but they still are
there. One of them got shot I guess
because this issue and but he's life
they tried to assassinate him one of
those two
brothers. This is the issue I was
involved directly with them. We was
trying to put hands in that because they
thought it's a coming it was a missing
nuclear head from the former from that
time Ukraine one they give up to the
Russians. So that he's still saying it's
a
missing. So they thought maybe that's
the part it's coming and it's coming in
al-Qaeda's hand. So the Russians were
selling al-Qaeda uranium. Yes. What year
was this? It was in 2009 8 or 9. You can
look in the communication. It's clearly
over there.
And you were involved in that? I was
100% involved.
How did that How did you get connected
to the Russians? Through the fanatics.
They're the They bring Yeah. They bring
through from Germany to Italy to from
Italy to Albania.
And so why were the
Russians involved at all? I have no
idea. It's a good question. If I know, I
will say it.
How easy is it to get uranium Russia?
It's very hard because you need a lot of
skills. You have to be real professional
in that part to deal with that.
Seems like it would have to be somebody
inside the government. Yes, 100%. Did
they get it to him? I have no idea more.
I know he was there because we was going
to
purchase. CIA was telling me, "Hold on.
We're going to have expert to do this.
You cannot deal
yourself. So if we get
that, you're going to be disappear.
You're not going to be able no more to
work. So we have to have our man to deal
with that. You just have to keep them
whole. You buying
that. How much
uranium? They was saying it can easy
kill half a million.
How many bombs would this go in? Three
or
four? And they would have al-Qaeda
smuggle it into the US. Yeah. Do you
think that happened?
Look, if is that plan, why didn't it
happen until now? And again, terrorists
need to get lucky one
time, not all the time. Once They have a
patient. Sean, those people are no joke.
Not
everyone, but the brains are really
smart. That's why they want me
in. After I got shot 2010, they begged
me 2014 to go back to be leader after I
got shot. And the the best source I had,
he knew it. I got shot, but he never
thought I got shot because I was
pie. He thought maybe our secret agents
they want to assassinate me so I'm not a
fanatic. So I cannot attack us. So maybe
it's inside job from the government of
my
country or
neighbors Serbia or Macedonia.
So they try to assassinate me so I don't
do something bad.
When's the last time you had contact
with them with us? With the
agency 2022.
That's the last time. 3 years ago.
January
2022. 6 or 7 January. 2 minutes. Cuz
I'll tell you what's going through my
mind. What if they got in contact with
you to tell me that in this show? Ah,
no. Never. To drive a narrative.
Never. Never. Ever. I never planned to
come in your
show. I was watching your show. The best
show. Seeing you past, reading your
CV. They asked me to give. Look, I
mentioned New York Times. It's a crazy
interview. Headline New York Times
number one
newspaper. But to come
here, I don't believe it. But if going
to if they're going to like it, I don't
think
so. Well, there's a lot of higherups
that want us at war.
We both know that. I know very well and
you know very well.
Sean, if it's like
that, you saw the story. You seen me. I
can I don't hide what I can do. I'm tell
I don't tell uh people in the street. I
don't tell family members. But this is
who I am.
So why you
don't work with him to keep him quiet?
It's very easy. You're the strongest
agency in the world. You don't need to
come and bow down and say, "I'm sorry."
No, absolutely. Just blur him. Stay calm
with your family. Here is
your green card, US passport. Stay calm.
Enjoy you. They give in former Sean.
They give a lady who was cleaning my
room. Look at this. I want you to see
this. Listen. They give a lady with four
kids. They bring her from over there
here for nothing and you not giving me
she's a piece of garbage. Mhm. Loser
lady. She was deported from European
countries involved in the crimes and
they bring her because she was cleaning
my room. She told them, "Oh, he has a
lot of slash weapons and you want me to
funny thing joke." When the immigration
pro uh prosecutor asked me do you know
do anybody has your papers ever? Guess
what? I left envelope with some papers.
This lady to touch it she did it and she
give to the immigration that
information. Just me and you we know
this borrow correct right now. Mhm. If
somebody else ask us from outside you or
me told them. So that lady told the
immigration. That lady told the CIA,
"Oh, Blair has a
weapons. That lady was cleaning the room
my house. She tell me how you got shot."
I said, "I got shot accidentally because
I don't want to. It's a family. I don't
want to to be scared kids because
gossip." No, I said I was playing with a
gun. I got shot
here. She told CIA that lie. He got shot
himself. I never got shot him myself
because CIA helped me. Why CIA didn't go
back and say, "Hey, why you lying?
Somebody tried to kill him. You telling
us he told you he got shot
himself?" Do you understand? It makes
sense to you. Mhm. She tell them, "Oh,
he he told me he got shot himself
accidentally with his gun. He likes gun.
He he shot accidentally himself. I don't
shoot with left. I shoot I'm a rider.
I'm not left. I had no gun. You know,
another thing we missed when I was in
hospital, they came uh local police to
see if I have a gun power in my hands.
They did that wrapping things with
aluminum thing. They do it if I was
engaged with shooting. I was not engaged
in shooting. I had no guns. I never
crossed. I crossed the border one time
trying to show samples with
uranium to the CIA and they tell me,
"Please don't ever do that.
It's very
dangerous. And then one time there was
something issue with some kind of size
of ammunition we found and I I took it.
I took it because I'm brave. I'm not
scared. It's not like people can say is
a sick. No, it's not sick. I have no
problem to deal with the weapons. It's
like somebody do draw the flag. I'm I'm
good with the weapons. If you good
drawer with a flag, I'm a good with the
weapons.
So this is how I am. And you taking a BS
from somebody from nowhere from source
who you had decade working for you.
Decade. I spent from 91 to uh 2010. 9
years plus after that
communicating. Sean, you can you're
super intelligent. Look at who's John
Müller. John Müller requested to meet
with me. I met with a John Müller, head
of counterterrorism unit, not the Asian
head of counter who met Bin Laden. John
Müller met Bin Laden 25 years ago. I met
with him. He requested to meet and I
went and see him. And I was after I came
from Canada after I got shot in 2015 and
two three different time I met with CIA
and FBI in my lawyer's office. Not once.
So if I'm bad like that, so why you want
to meet with me? If I'm no good, so why
you want to meet with
me? And I will not come in your show. I
will not go in immigration or nowhere to
uh put my name in the dangers and family
name in the dangers. If they was come
and said, you know what, we're not
saying if we make a mistake or not,
we're going to call the judge and say,
the judge, you enjoy your life. Get your
papers and that's it. They never did
that. They're supposed to do it. They
they told me we're not like a federal
prosecutors. Many time not once DoD,
Department of Defense twice in your
county, Pennsylvania said, "Mr. Skoro,
we not like a federal prosecutors. We
are the Department of Defense. If we say
something, we we keep
that." None of
them. I I have to keep my loyalty to you
and agency, but you don't keep nothing
to me. We got to work something
together. I'm not interesting to make
money of uh my movie and book and
document. Trust me, I work. I can make
little money. My wife works. My two kids
works. We work. Four of
us. It's not really money. It's no money
to the CIA working. Trust me. Mhm. You
get some money, but for me it's nothing.
It can be for Afghani gokeeper. You know
those poor guys you give $500 or $1,000.
I'm not
Afghani. You know, I can earn money in
proper way.
You bring in 200,000 Afghanistan and you
saying they help us. No, those 200,000
Afghanistan, they didn't help us. It's a
is stupid to think like that. It's
embarrassment. We help them. They give
up not to fight. They cowed. I'm using
this word. I'm sorry to use that. How
come they didn't find Taliban? Why they
left all those weapon over there? Why
they give up so quick? They didn't even
fire a bullet. They run away. We spent
20 years over there. We spend all that
money. We invest all that money and now
you bringing 200,000
Afghanist everywhere.
What did they plan on using the all the
weapons that you procured?
How did they I mean you talked about
landmines and all of that kind of they
destroy all of them. They took and
destroyed. They took it and destroyed
everything. Whatever I got it all the
CIA took it. with the with the network
that you set up in in
in [ __ ]
Slovakia, the network that you set up,
would they ever ask where the weapons
were?
They was thinking I'm uh uh getting for
al-Qaeda. But did they ever want to see
them? No, never. Because it's a strict
rules. Al-Qaeda doesn't show nothing to
you guys. Mhm. I cannot that's a two
secret may if they ask me I would say oh
you a spy you working for
somebody maybe you're working for
Americans or foreigner
agency you see the bathroom you have
downstairs I can say three or four times
bigger than that place I took C4 from
the terror group just
C4 two or three time least like that
bathroom you have full Mhm. Not just a
little bit full. Yeah, this with my
hands and all give to the
CIA. I did never problem. I never caused
no damage. No, no CIA was ever hurt or
something. Everybody was safe and good.
I did everything myself.
How did you get back into the US? How I
came back? It's very easy for me. It's
no problem to come to US. It's no, it's
no problem for me today after 10 days to
be in Afghanistan. It's very easy. It's
all open
border, Sean. I always keep my sources.
I always have a friends. My good
friends, they know I would never betray
them. I would die never betray them. I'm
very loyal, but I'm not loyal to
terrorist. But I can be your friend. I
never betrayed you. Mhm. But not to
terrorist. I'm not loyal to terrorist.
But to friends, I'm a lawyer. I can pick
a phone. If I want to assassinate
somebody, I can do that. I have a
friend. Are you saying that you you came
back into the country illegally in US?
Yeah. Somebody drove me from
Canada. There's no problem. You have a
open border a lot of places.
And so what's your status now? Oh, now
I'm to stay. My status is uh granted
from immigration
judge. I have no problem now. I'm
legally uh permitted in US. I have no
issue no more. I have no courts or
nothing. I'm free. It's just I cannot
fly overseas.
And what do you do now? I I'm a cab
driver. It's a hell of a hell of a cab
to get into. Yeah. But I never talk to
the customers. You don't? No.
I don't think they would believe you
anyways. Oh, it's not that. And I I I
meet all kind of people. Sometimes it's
interesting. Some people they want to
show off or tell you story and I don't
buy easy. I have more skills than them.
I was a car wash owner for 10 years. I
had a car wash business. I lost car wash
business because my bad friends CIA 2016
they sending me team 50 people to arrest
me in Brooklyn with helicopter with
sniper. They arresting like arresting me
like arresting al-Qaeda leader. I
couldn't believe it. What did they
arrest you for? For nothing complaint.
And they released me. Complaint. What
was the complaint? They said the
prosecutor here I can give you small
details. The prosecutor who arrest a
terror guy who was
convicted in US soil
overseas when they came in Canada they
thought I was going to testify something
against and the prosecutor convict him
with my source information and he give
credit to informers all my information
what CIA provide to him and then he went
against me saying he's a liar the
prosecutor and then I go in a court in
front of federal judge. I said, "Your
honor, I want to because I know now I'm
not a mouse not to know my rights." And
I told the lawyer who was defending me,
excellent lawyer. I have the best
lawyers in United States this time.
Before I didn't have that now, I have
the best lawyers in United States and
they're willing always to defend me for
free. I don't have to pay them. They're
so good lawyers. They're willing to
defend me for
free because they know I'm honest. They
know I put my life in a dangers to
protect Americans. They come the judge
said to to prosecutors are you going to
indict him? Prosecutor had no no
indictment. Sean if you re-entry to us
if you have all these pictures the
prosecutor will send you for life in
prison. So they didn't do anything. They
didn't do anything. And the same
prosecutor after one you know the worst
part in the justice department are
federal prosecutors.
Because they work one year, two years.
They don't work to stop a criminal. They
just work to build a little bit
reputation to create experience so they
can be private lawyers to make money
because prosecutors don't make no money.
So a lot of people become victim for
that the way I become victim. But thank
God judge make a right decision. I
really appreciate. I have nothing to say
that judge is going to be. I have a uh
uh I have all the recording like you see
the way I I I was talking to you today.
The judge didn't know I record all the
decision. I'm not supposed to do that.
But I was so happy when they make that
decision like I'm a born for second time
because my kids was there. They seen
they know what I've been through. They
was all the time present with me. They
went in a pain the way I went. They
suffer with me my wife and kids. So the
judge said I cannot deport this guy.
This guy gonna stay in my country. He
she make decision. She was a lady. She
grant me
stay and I'm here. I'm happy with the
judge but I'm not happy with agency
because agency couldn't do that me not
to be here.
Sean agency I couldn't I still couldn't
help the agency a lot of
things even after my assassination
attempt I couldn't help them a lot I was
more brain than them not for from all of
them not like uh Devon and Scott those
Deon and Scott I dealt in the beginning
they was brilliant agents super good CIA
agents and the one in the federal prison
Lieutenant Lions he was former Marine
means it was excellent. I
will welcome to work again with them.
But the last
one crazy. Would you do it all over
again? Absolutely. Even knowing how they
treated you.
Yes.
With no
mistake, no second thought, just I will
put one condition. I want everything
black and white in a paper writing.
the way agents work inside of the
agency, I want like that too. If you're
not going to have me to have that paper
because I sign on contract with them, if
I cannot keep that paper, my kids cannot
have that, then I will not. But if I if
you offer me that, I would do it from
beginning. And you don't believe how
much this country in the dangers
today, you're not going to see that
today. You're going to remember my
interview with you after 10 years. How
much or where I see it in a country? How
it's fanatics growing in US? How are
they growing? Badly.
I mean, I see it. I know they're
recruiting out of the a little bit. You
see, when I It's me different because
when I see what they how what they're
reading, I can tell if they're going to
be bad to the country. You know when
imam tells
you hey you don't need to ask me all the
time fight for your rights do what you
have to do for your
rights that's mean he's instigating you
he's preaching you he's brainwashing you
you to do something that's
bad and the US agency failing badly
another thing they have no control of
finance how much money they give us
government have a zero control and those
goes the finance goes in a bad people's
hand. You know why it's quiet today?
Because they want to grow in this in a
fanatics uh ideology is this. I can easy
tell you that the ideology is a sick
ideology because they can they wanted to
get strong with finance. So when it's
time to fight you, they can fight you.
They're not making peace with you.
They're just quiet. They're telling you,
"Yeah, like a situation in Syria, but
when it's time, they will fight you
back." We help al-Qaeda and bin Laden in
Afghanistan. You know what the
uh the CIA agent, I read his book, uh I
don't want to mention his name now to
advertise him. He said we offer him over
half a billion dollar to bin Laden in
his book. You can read that just to come
in a TV and said I'm giving up jihad.
I'm not fighting against crusaders. I'm
going to live in Saudi Arabia. He said
no. I read in his book he was 25 years
CI agent in his bin Laden unit
investigated. That's what he
said. So same thing happened today. A
lot of breeding of fanatics is there but
the agency is failing. You know it's a
joke. the biggest uh breathing come from
the prison from
institution. Crazy. You don't believe
it? I believe it. I tell you the way I
see it, it's crazy. And we're going to
feel the pains after 10, 15
years. But it's going to be too late.
Sean, it's here. You ask me, it's easy
to get weapons. I can get weapons much
as you want in United States. Give me
the money. I can buy you anything you
want. Anything you name it, I can get
you. So if I can get that, you think one
day terror is not going to get that? Of
course. Oh, I know they're getting it.
We talk about it a lot on this show. I
see it. So look at me. I see that.
What's going on? And I tell you that and
you don't want to source like that. Come
on. I can make a living anywhere you
want. If you know you I you want to
understand my mind what I think. If you
throw me in the middle of Atlantic
Ocean, no
clothes, no money, I come out from
Atlantic Ocean with clothes and money.
This is how I trust
myself. This is who I am. I don't see
movies, but I'm the person you dealing
now. I can do
things. I don't need attention. I don't
need my name to be there.
I couldn't be very low profile like
before and do things which benefit you
and the country.
I I didn't got no
benefit. Did you see me how I was
emotion? It's 54 years old. It's it's
very heartbroken, you know, to come to
that
point. You betrayed
me.
Why? You have a man. I can die for you.
Why you don't just give me the hand say
let me pull
you. You don't need to drown. I can help
you. I'm a normal human. I love my kids.
I love my family. I did everything for
my kids and
family. Somebody who love the kids and
family, he would not hurt you.
Never. Because when I saw that they
jumping from 911 80 third floor people
jumping I saw I don't care what they
saying with conspiracy. I was thinking
to kill that guy in my cell because he
was happy seeing that. I swear it was
moment. I swear to God. I'm telling you,
believe it or not, I was thinking to
kill that guy, that terrorist guy in
cell. I believe it. Come on. I want to
be happy. People jumping, people who
feed my kids, people who help me all the
time, I'm going to be happy. Never
religion. I will ban my
religion. If they push me like that, I
will ban. I want to live normal human
being.
I rather be with my kids normal than be
judged like that. Oh, look at what he
did. Killed innocent people. I don't
have to be in a problem in a war. War
it's a
war. War it's a
war. But not the way they do it. Kill
taking hijacking a plane or blowing
yourself in
supermarket. That's not a war. Yeah.
Come on.
Well, we're wrapping up the interview.
Do you have anything in particular you
want to say? I hope right people listen
this. I don't want
attention. For me, it's quality of the
people to hear this. I'm not against to
nobody. I'm against
terrorist. I was never double, never one
side. If I was double, I couldn't do a
lot of things until today. A lot.
But I'm proud who I am. I proudly serve
this country. I deserve to be treated
just a little bit like human. Not too
much, just a little bit.
Well, I would agree. I hope every
everybody enjoys
that. Not taking wrong my interview.
Well, they're going to enjoy it.
Thank you for what you've done for the
country. Thank you for being here. and
um can't wait to see that documentary
hit. Thank you very much. I'm honored to
be in your place. It's an honor to have
an honor. I'd be very honest with you.
When I saw you shows, I said this is my
dream place to be. The way I never
mention every code in the banks and
stuff one day you have to put something
passport. I put my dream job
CIA. So this is who I was. I'm a Muslim.
But my dream job was CIA. You might want
to change those passwords now. From now
I have
to Sean Ryan.
All right. Thank you very much. I I
really appreciate, man. I really
appreciate.
[Music]
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