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Ep #18 | WTF, Alcohol is a $70B Business in India? | Nikhil Kamath explores Gaps & Opportunities

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the intent is to find young people out

there and tell them how they can get a

job in owning a bar starting a liquor

company working in a liquor company

doing advertising for liquor companies

because you guys are experts in this [Music]

welcome each and every one of you uh

thank you for coming the very first

thing we do when we begin this off is introduce

introduce

ourselves uh I know abishek very well

already but I haven't spend time with

the other three of you so maybe you

start by giving us five minutes about

yourself starting

with okay we start yeah go minaki

amazing so um okay okay we start from

the beginning you're a bar owner so

you're already a very cool person yeah I

know that like I said I will pull your

leg feel free to I'll do the I'll do the

same trust me we need some alcohol and

then we'll start no so yeah so I I

started um my journey into this industry

uh right from hotel management days so I

did my hotel management from iimp Pusa

New Delhi um and from there on uh uh in

the second year of College just like

most of us we needed pocket money for

the pizza and beers and so we where did

you do college IHM Pusa New Delhi so uh

and finished my schooling in college

from Delhi and since then I've been in

Delhi okay so you went to college then

uh yeah so uh I started bartending in

the second year of college as a as a

almost like a you there's something

called odc's which are outdo do you have

pictures from back there yeah yeah yeah

now we should put that up okay

then okay so that was my first

experience behind the bar um I I also

think that was also a very big turning

point for me I was really lucky to have

experienced really good uh you know

space of work for the first time when

you go um it was it was not a it was

just a part-time job uh and you know you

were just doing it for fun mostly for

money and uh when I went behind the bar

I started really enjoying it and I I

felt like I don't know if there's a word

for this I I really felt like this is my

calling and I got what element of

bartending actual bartending so I loved

making drinks I loved serving drinks I

love the part of hosting and talking to

new people getting was the social

element more or was it the mixing

absolutely absolutely so bartending is a

mix of many things of course the

technical art of it of making drinks is

is is primary but after that it's layer

on layer on your personality and how

sociable you are and how open you are to

knowing new people talking to strangers

and how you know what your personality

is and I think bartending can bring that

personality out in you it's very it's a

very good comfortable space because you

are also already in a space of enjoyment

you're mostly there to relax so you also

come with your guards down a little bit

so I think from a consumer point of view

it works really well and I had a great

uh time in that second and third year of

college bartenders tend to be particularly

particularly

good-look um no I don't think so I I

don't that I think that's not a good

looking and good grooming are two

different things and I would say that

that's because when you're in a hotel

background or hotel industry you're

expected to be turned out well your hair

is in place your nails are in place

that's part of grooming and I feel

that's also part of hygiene and because

you're serving food you're serving

drinks I don't want a Shabby looking

person you know preparing my food for

example it's the same way I don't want a

Shabby looking person making drinks for

me so I think grooming is where the

center point is and after that of course

you can be groomed well you can wear a

beautiful designer shirt and look really

good okay so Bart ending second year of

college then and um after that uh when I

was in third year U as expected most of

the hotel management students back then

it's I'm also referring to now 20 years

ago back then um it was expected that

now you'll become a hotel manager you'll

become you'll get into Management

training program and then then you get a

suit and you're sorted right so it's

it's the blue colar white colar part of

it and my parents weren't very happy

when I told them that I don't want to do

hotel I don't want to be a manager in a hotel

hotel

I'd rather be bartending and that was a

difficult phase for us as a family as

well but somewhere I took the decision

to continue Bart ending I did a Bart

ending course and I think that is when I

realized the real yeah in India uh my

business partner current business

partner Yang du blama had just started

his bartending school so we I was

actually one of the first initial

batches of kids who came out this was

that that uh back then was this is 20034

and it four or five actually and this

time uh funnily it was a 6-month course

and you were supposed to after doing

your classes also bartend so it was

literally like 14h hour days 16h hour

days and for some odd reason I I still

enjoyed it a lot and I kept doing it I

was at it uh and I think where the

biggest U turning point I mean there was

this whole moment where I was like okay

I'm going to be a bartender I'm going to

work in this this place and that place I

was dreaming all these big dreams and

then I realized that women are not

allowed to bartend in IND India uh it's

actually illegal today to certain states

in India uh women are not legally

allowed to serve also like even

waitressing wise or so be actually

making drinks so that was quite a stop

for me um I didn't have the option to

actually move outside of India I was

barely managing it in Delhi um that's

when I kind of looked around and what to

do and that time Yang do actually

introduced me to somebody who had just

started off uh this website called

lio.com it used to be working for beage

marketing companies trainings a lot of

spa the space was the same uh just not B

ending and actually was their first

employee and I started with data entry

and a lot of that but I actually still

really wanted to be there so I continue

doing it with the little money and yeah

so those those years were a struggle but

I also think that I actually look back

very very fondly at that time because

those were my I feel I was very lucky to

find the space to still continue in the

industry without actually have the

option to do uh while working in tell I

got to travel a lot I travel all over

India they were doing projects with

bakadi with smof uh I was working

extensively with these Brands these were

the brands that were actually entering

in these are Global Brands U

Multinational Global Brands and they

were actually entering India for the

first time and so they needed bartender

training programs customer activation a

lot of a lot of lot of below the line

Activation so I was part of all these

multiple project so I would actually

take a flight every weekend to a

different city so it was a Delhi Bombay

Bangalore Hyderabad Kata Punjab Jaipur

rur multiple cities uh I think that was

like a intense crazy two years of my

time and I loved every bit of it uh

learned a lot interacted a lot with a

lot of people I learned about what the

corporate means how businesses work how

all the other things work right what how

does how is the spirit made I took

courses to actually learn how a Jin is

made or how a watka is made things like

that um and continue to actually grow in

the in that space and and and then I got

my break in a company called diio which

was actually it is still actually

globally number one in the world and uh

I started working with a brand called

Captain Morgan uh very short stint that

time it was a rum that launched and uh

so they launched in Bombay so their

office was here and then U head office

was in Bombay and then in uh Delhi they

launched so we kind of handled Captain

Morgan and then I moved to poror Rica

which is another liquor giant there I

stayed for about three and a half years

but during this whole time in 2 I can I

have to tell you in

2006 I made my first Excel sheet of

having my own bar you know and I still

have that Excel sheet of all the cost in

the world and at that time I called amid

bman you know the founder of darber and

at that time used to run a bar in uh in

Delhi called forum and I took one hour

of his time asking him how much does the

class cost how much does the kitchen

cost how much is how much do you pay a

manager I had no idea how to build this

sheet right so I built it and very

nicely actually gave all the details

heard me out and uh and then yeah the

dream was alive and yang dup and I kept

talking we were he was a trainer very

well established you know bartender

mixologist uh he's an author he's many

many things and uh so we kept talking

about doing something together

starting our own bar and at that time I

think the dream was to have a bar for

people like us that was always the

conversation we were like where are the

bars where you go quietly sit chat have

a good drink why are all the bars so

loud why do they expect us to dance

right now or you know dress up all the

time you know where are the bars which

when you go to London you go to New York

you go to I mean West was our mostly

that's our Direction you know uh that

that's how you get inspiration globally

in the space of spirits and bars um

and we used to always talk about it

between us that where are the cool bars

man like where are the there are pubs

there are beer places there were like of

course we've always had institutions

which are which are amazing even at that

time but good cocktail bars with cool

bartenders talking to you and serving

you and owners being being there for you

does not happen here there are all you

know owners who are who walk into you

know the sap table and Friends and the

managers are like it's it's a very

different culture right in India when it

comes to bars and so uh yeah so we kind

of went through it and we went through

looking for investors we had our

conversations and finally we realized

that nobody's going to give us money to

start our bar and we really wanted to be

in South Delhi that was our Dream but

you know that what they say that God

gives you the opposite of what you want

and then we finally found a place in

guro in a basement in guro it's still

like kind of in the middle of nowhere is

how a lot of people refer to it people

who know this place it's called

cocktails and dreams PE easy that's our

first bar uh we started it in the

basement uh young dup was the bartender

I was the waiter that's how we like to

put it and we had two more people to

help us and we had about four people in

the kitchen do you have live music in

this SP yes I think I've been here

amazing and you a regular customer who

was there at least four times in a yeah

like I told you Su was one of our first

first uh how often does he come uh now

you know he's married and he has a kid

so should be there four times a week

with four different is there a

correlation being between being single

and going out to a bar I think that time

I think it just happened naturally

because that was one of the cooler bars

uh I mean that was the only bar which

was close to home why did you go there

shush uh because um I wanted to drink

cocktails and every there were not too

many places in the city at that point in

time which would serve cocktails how

many people walk into a bar for the

taste of a cocktail and how many walk

into a bar for for the people in the bar

so majority of the people will come for

the entire experience it's never one

thing um yes cocktails are of course

cocktails and food both are very much

you know your Center that's your point

of sale you have to sell cocktails and

food otherwise you're not selling the

lights and the table and the chair right

so I have to make money from that so I

have to get that right but other than

that music lighting people servers all

of it even the comfort of your chair

like the number of times we have we have

made our own Furniture ourselves even

now today we are making our own bar and

we're still making the furniture

ourselves so it's like it's part of who

you are right it's the craft of it and

also you go to your bar and be like okay

talk to talk to the bartender and be

like okay I do not like this make me

something else which was which was

amazing and not too many bars would be

doing that back back in the day yeah y

dup was all about that he used to make

drinks as for people so he I still know

the drink that sucher used to have and

to date he used to have this popcorn shop

shop

crazy person after every amazing it's

amazingly it's a no-brainer okay so yeah

so bars so bars are a lot about comfort

and you know knowing people many many

things so if I I can't just put like my

finger to it but yes of course food

drinks music Ambience if you just to

make pillars there are four five big

pillars service these are like you have

to have them sorted and then everything

else hopefully aligns so you started uh

cocktail and dreams in 2012 yeah and

then how did sidecar happen side car is

Asia's world yeah we were part of

world's list we are part of Asia list we

part of we are number one in India for

the last consecutive three years number

one bar in India India which is so much

more stressful than the international

Awards I'm telling you really cuz it's

pure man you know what I mean right

Indians voting for Indians and being

number one actually not because every

time there's a competition in the

country I know the top three who are the

top it always be

stop it that's not but you know

it one by B I think will happen arit

bars you know yeah but

yeah forward is just yeah among the top

forward forward bar indust is very small

we all know each other from but how much

would be your Revenue because side car

is known for the best cocktails so

between cocktails and spirit what would

be the I'm I'm sitting in a very good

85% cocktails and the

fantastic so I think moving on so you

know when I heard about you first rias

called me one day and he's like you have

to invest in Goa Brewing Company I'm

connecting you to him that's so sweet of

ryaz what is the story of Goa Brewing

Company and why are so many

people vouching for you in a world

riddled with many different Indian

independent beer

brands I think vouch ing is all their

kindness I'm really grateful to who

everyone but I think from a story um we

I grew up in panim small town of Goa

parents were worked as government

employees mother father both went to

work so we were literally you know had

the whole town to ourselves it was very

navigatable as kids great life um you

know went to Hotel school because

couldn't get into any engineering

College I I could go to to some rural

College of Engineering but that didn't

seem exciting I took a year to school in

go yes I went to school everything in

Goa until uh I graduated your dad was

posted there no no my dad was working in

the he he joined as a land surveyor

parents were first generation moving

from Village to the city educated so

their entire Focus was to educate us as

kids a younger brother who also again

lives in California and um

while we were growing up I think U uh

there was varied experiences also you

know Goa is quite Charming that way in

terms of um it had its own micro culture

so you saw a lot of people Travelers

tourist you know people visiting and you

were also exposed to a completely

different life which was very different

from what you were living in your small

town and uh then I joined Hotel school I

went went to IHM Goa graduated but it

really didn't feel like working in the

hotels so I was just looking for a job

and uh king fisher the beer company was

hiring and I just went for an interview

I had no experience they just I don't

know offered me the job because I was

extremely like you know en2 what year

was this this was in the year

2006 so that was the first understanding

of how you know the liquor industry

works you know because beer operates

almost like fmcg and when you are

working for a for a large Beer Company

you are the operational length and

breadth of it is unlike any other

alcohol category I think beer has to

reach the last you wouldn't travel like

for a wine you may go a little further

but for beer you'll want it very close

to your home it's it's very different so

it operates very fast you order so if in

a liquor company you order Cycles maybe

once in a month in beer you get like

every 3 4 days so ation Al very very

exciting got got a sense of that then I

got a job to work with pero Rica which

is this French company great time to

join them because it was it was entirely

actually built by Indian Executives Paro

and these he in Goa now that was SE then were

were

you no I was in perno by then but perno

had acquired it's very interesting that

when uh the seams family which owned uh

which was the world's biggest liquor

company the the founder wanted to just

sell out and there was nobody who could

buy it so it was split between many

people and nobody wanted to take the

India business and perno got it and

perno turned it around and today I think

made it massively profitable yeah like

25,000 CR in Revenue it's I think the

most profitable liquor company but

entire so the DNA was very interesting

while I was working at perno you had

great Executives who were very

supportive of talent so got to work

within perno so from Goa to chandigar

which was again like a complete 360°

shock for me and I looked after

marketing for Northwest India so got a

very different sense of how India is

then moved to the brand Team uh where I

was given one of the biggest brands to

manage for a short time I was looking

after Royal stag which is I think I

don't know if it's still the biggest but

it was quite big so when did that

campaign come no artificial flavors was

it by you no no this was before me yeah

no artific yeah that really that really

this whole green whiskey story when I

was there Royal stag became the number

one in the world it was number one

highest yeah

biggest it's still number one right yeah

I mean it I I don't know today like also

that category is very it's it's it's

number one is is it in revenue or in

volume not Revenue yeah volume volum

volum but there's a royal Challenge and

these guys are sort of neck and neck

most no no Royal challenges come down so

now Royal stag is there yeah they say UB

has 25% Market market share today is

that approximately right UB with diio or

you talking about the United is the beer

compan with di with diio yeah it must be

I think they

will okay 300 million case indust so now

like uh uh the diio has given off the uh

less expensive Brands to uh

inw earlier their market share would

have been about uh close to about 35

yeah so now they'll be same about 2025

right interesting they didn't want to

get very deep into the smaller cities

and stuff they want to focus more on the

those were the economy segments which

makes no profit yeah so what was the

opportunity you saw in Goa Brewing what

sets you apart from the rest so while I

was working I the only thing I used

whatever income that I got was to travel

so I initially with the small salaries I

could travel in Southeast Asia just

backpacked and when I finally got to go

to the US I think this was somewhere around

around

20134 I was on a flight uh from London

to New York and like a United Airways

like the cheapest ticket right at the

back you know so you know that's like

that's and you happy about it that's

luxury and I'm sitting there and I'm

waiting for the trolley with like you

know the with the drinks coming and I'm

just very observant of people so I

always I was just looking and there were

all these kids who looked very hipster

hipsterism was in and all the you know

uh what do you call the turtle shell uh

frames and everybody was picking up this

green can and I was just super curious

and this is taking so long it's a

transatlantic flight so 20 30 minutes

down and I'm just waiting and then it

reached me and I said do you know what

that green can is and she this woman

just looked the and she said oh that's

the last one it's your lucky day and

that was an IPA that I never had an IPA

i' worked in liquor for 10 years may not

10 years I must have worked in liquor

for seven years IPA is Indian P Indian p

and I cracked open the bottle can and I

poured it had the first sip the burst of

hop Aromas and like what authentic craft

beer is and I was just like like

you know I mean what am I what are we

making can you elaborate a bit what is

Indian P so it's a very interesting uh

story so Indian Pale Ale um was made

when the British couldn't ship fresh old

beers to India because they would get

spoiled on the journey it was on the sea

so some Brewers in in uh London decided

to increase the alcohol percentage and

also add a lot of hops so hops are you

know they're antibacterial but the E

loves it so from a microbiological

standpoint it what hops hops are a uh

like it's a bird of a creeper it's very

um botanical yeah it's a Botanical plant

it's the bitterness and the aroma of

beer essentially came from beer soer

bitter so the main problem was when you

you didn't have temperature control back

in the Medieval ages and you still brew beer

beer

you often found the beer turn sour and

then the Brewers would just experiment

with like the French Brewers would put

something and and then somehow someone

realize that okay if you put a lot of

hops it controls the bacterial uh growth

because you didn't have the sanitation

of today and you didn't understand

microbiology that well so in fact beer

was given to you know Farm Workers as a

ration because it was healthier than

water because water be beer goes through

the whole process of getting heated and

cooked and so um so the the when this

beer started coming to India it was made

for India and when Indian breweries got

set up I think the first ones in Solen

and everywhere this shipping was not

needed anymore so the the the style died

for almost 140 150 years nobody really

even heard of India P I think the Indian

pallet uh did not it's not in at all

even in the west it died because also

it's it's way more bitter than uh green

can you had on the aine Indian company

or India Pale alses were never made in

India until maybe 2015 for cat it's a

category like how you have a

stout so most of

the because it was being shipped to

India britishers called it IPA and then

in the way like fortified Vines happen

same way like they added High proof also

it had a higher amount of alcohol in it

yeah yeah little but still if you look

at the market like IPA like when you

want to a Beer Drinker try a new beer

they don't usually end up liking an IPA

they'll still go for a lger or a hiis

because it's more bitter qu what would

be the difference between Andy Coffee

like we start with milky coffee and move

too you know it's the same I think the

palette Grows Right like it's the blue

cheese and am yeah yeah it's all

Evolution and you you know the the

category really took off because there

were like this very passionate you know

absolutely you know authentic Brewers

home Brewers in the west coast who

decided to start um you know challenging

the status quo of these big corporations

so the big beer back in the day in

America was all mild loggers and

everything so these Brewers started

making small batches I think and then

the style that became very popular was

IPA and it was invented by the

Brewers like Stone Brewing Lagunitas the

first generation craft Brewers and they

also came with that great culture where

they were really trying to they were

also contemporaries of like you know the

tech companies and you know very open

work culture happening in the west at

that time so this was like on the beer

Direction so that's how IPA uh became

popular so how did that relate with you

starting go Brewing Company so I had a

plan to go and visit like you know

friends and travel in the US and see

whatnot you know what were you doing

back then professionally working I was

working at in that that those days I was

working in chandigar I think yeah for

for perno okay so whatever money I saved

I just would use it to so you saw this

green can you were like IPA is great

kikas then so I read the can I was like

this is insane like how can we not make

product like this and I was always like

thinking within the companies What can

you do to create new product I was very

like trying to shake the those uh within

that organization I just was I think

waited I remember like pacing in the

flight wanting for the doors to open

when I landed I just went to the brewery

that made it then I just kept traveling

with going from one Brewery to other

then I I I must have on that trip of 3

weeks I must have gone to maybe two or

three breweries a day I didn't even meet

my cousins I said like I was totally

obsessed by the idea and it was like

everyone was very open Friendly the

whole culture part of it was very

different from how like how Indian

liquor companies were very secretive

there was very what the M was called

copy left like you big thing in alcohol

the recipe not so much so Western

Brewers just publish their recipes we

also are very happy to you know like

tell people what what style it is we

describe it very in detail I think the

Legacy Brands hold it tght it's the like

like in

ingredient is very very

critical like only the chief Master

blender it's called as a black book so

like we don't share with anyone like

only I have it and my blender would like

you you are a legacy brand so started

you know what I

mean yeah okay so if I go to a wine

store why do I pick Gua Brewing Company

over another beer which is on the

counter the first basic differentiator

is it you know it is phenomenally

different from any commercial beer like

say for example I take a king fisher

strong I take a Goa brewing beer I mean

you could just taste it you will you

will immediately realize and how the

beer affects you quality is a factor of

what in be so we are what we do I can

speak you know because the word craft is

also very Broad and liberally used but I

mean I personally take it with a lot of

seriousness and so we are absolutely uh

like natural or nothing business where

we don't even use any kind of extract or

even fruit which has like processed by

any Industrial company we would rather

go straight and use as much as whole

produce as possible so we'll Source our

grains we'll work very closely so every

part of your um the the beer that you're

drinking if you read our label all the

ingredients you will be able to know

they they all which you would find in

your kitchen it's nothing which is

industrial or something so that's

because we are not really aiming to

produce you know One lakh

cases from one like you know you're not

scaling you're not so the bigger

breweries probably would from one badge

they would produce 20,000 cases and we

would probably produce maybe 6 700 cases

from one B so we work on slightly

trimmed down equipment we've customized

what scale is good enough where the

quality doesn't uh get affected and work

to make sure that you are so you know

you're delivering a product that's that

has a very good differentiation at the

same time it also you know has that

value we are Indians at the end of the

if I'm going to pay 20 rupees more I

want to taste it I want to feel it you

know if I have five bottles of people's

ler people say that I it doesn't blo

them it's clean the next day is fresh

because it's clean in terms of what

ingredients go in making it and that's

how much does it cost versus King Fisher

so our beers would be um so king fisher

let's say is about 50 rup for a 330 ml

just to give you a markup we will be at

more than that is the pra prices is the

cheapest in the country so we would and

a Biser would be a 65 and you know so

that's it very cheap yeah that's for the

for the 330 and we would be at 90 which

would be a 20 25% upgrade over the

premium category and then we have beers

in every category and what margins does

a beer company typically work on so you

know with extremely high level levels of

efficiency if you are producing Mass

macro loggers you probably get into the

range of between

55% and because they also recycle a lot

of bottles come back it's it's very

efficient in terms of cost structure and

it can be stretched all the way to 60

but not consistently because you also

operate on commodity prices also coming

malt prices go up glass prices go up

year taxes and all don't taxes is out of

your uh cost beond the taxes go up the

prices also yeah that's what I'm saying

taxes only affect this entire industry

from state to state which you realize

the Revenue taxes go to the the

government I think what cleverly you

have done is you have differentiated

your product by pricing it higher I

think that is the main thing but I think

we also a little bit like Carpenters you

know to be honest we make it at a

certain cost we have a simple very clear

idea that this is our margin structure

we're not going to touch it we don't

want it to be out priced we're not

aiming for we want to create great

quality product so philosophy of Goa

Brewing is is simply you want to create

beer which is in the home refrigerator

we don't look at any other touch point

we don't sponsor bars we bars keep our

product for the product quality but we

don't pay for entry into any bar like

Mini's bar owner run bars would are

great support system for us who

appreciate quality you know right how

big is Goa Brewing Company now in terms

of uh sales sales I think we last year

we finished with 27 lag bottles in the

financial year and the money number for

that so in terms of gross sales we would

have crossed 20 CR in terms of sale yeah

and you've gotten funded also no by DSG

so one of the First Investments that you

know so that was another long journey

into figuring it out so so competition

is Bea mainly be is actually a very

different uh Play Because be's um be

also gets majority of its volumes from

the same category as haward's 5000 and

Kingfisher strong where it's it's it's

the base category where and certain

States they really get a lot of volume I

think we do not have any kind of

a competition as such because I think we

fall in the category of Brands which you

know consumers really you know take make

that effort to even go one stop a to get

that product and they will buy a case

and they will make sure that because

that's the uh the

mo interesting enjoy it huh enjoy it

thank you do I say Shar

or okay so we already know about Shar

that his

youth was focused around going to

cocktails uh before though but uh's bar

four times a week with four different

people yes when did the journey eye

witness to a small part of it okay so

when did you like get your act together

and become a family man the most family

is question in the most traditional

sense Family Man happened what about 5

years back actually met my wife at a at

one of my own events but I've always

done events so since I was in school I

was I was not the best student but I was

always involved in organizing stuff for

school with friends so I was I've always

been an organizer uh so it was a very

natural transition for me to be in the

industry of

entertainment um along the way I started

post College I started getting artists

down to the country um I Flo in my first

company when I was about 17 18 years old

where I would get a company called

spotted club.com where I would send

photographers across bars in Delhi

Bombay Bangalore they would take

pictures and upload it within 24 hours

onto this website

and um but I would always create

experiences and I realized that the only

way I could monetize this was via

alcohol Brands so when I was 18 years

old I got this artist into the country

called Edward Maya for the first time

and I was an 18y old had no idea about

sponsorships I walked into the bakar's

office randomly I stayed in gar I walked

into bakar's office I got a meeting

through the was really popular in Delhi

uh subjective right now let's what do

you call popular you want to put him

above this right let's discuss that no

he was massively connected extremely

social like I said that's that that's my

mode I just knew how to get people

together yeah and I knew how to have the

best parties and um but I did not have

experience right so I was throwing these

amazing parties I was making money of it

but at a point of time I had a downfall

so I remember these events how old are

you know uh I'm 35 yeah I'm 35 there's

something about this I have a couple of

friends in Bombay and Bangalore who are

really cool organizing great events at a

certain point in their life they all

have a change of heart where what was

once really appealing and validating for

them stops being validating at around

the age of 35 3540 why is that uh

actually for me um I take great offense

to this because when I watch some of

these guys who are making making money

having a good time being very

social in many ways doing what they love

why do they stop it and then try to do

something completely different at a

later half of the life I don't think

I've stopped it at all at least from

personal experience uh I realized very

early whatever I do in life I'll have to

build my business around it and I could

not do a 9 to5 job I was very clear

about that I had to be doing something

in which I have fun so I had this this

one party which did not go very well uh

which was a very big talk of town it

called it was called o it was a New Year

party where we ran out of alcohol

organization was not the best in one

month's time I decided uh I'm going I

was a small partner in a nightclub I

sold that off what went wrong um the

partnership that I was in at that point

time who I partnered with to have this

party that did not work out for me and

my responsibility was was perfect what

what I executed as part of my responsibility

responsibility

was was on point but I'm thinking Delhi

someone shot somebody that's the same

God this is a TR no but that's fine that

that did happen that

F no of course not that's have we don't

have uh within one month time haven't ared

ared

yet oh God so so within one month's time

um I quit whatever I was doing and I

joined who's also mentor to me I I

joined a company at a very low I was

making lots of money but I realized that

if I want to do what I want to do for

the rest of my life around what I want

to do which is entertaining people I

have to understand how companies work so

I joined rashan Abbas he was running a

company called Encompass at that point

in time I joined as an assistant manager

at a very low salary but the three years

I spent there all I did was understand

invoicing taxation purchase order

um how to vendor management give me the

secret recipe to throw a killer party

that everybody wants to show up to one

line so what I do now is experience so

what I learned from that and what I do

now is the same thing I'm doing for

100,000 people across three cities with

one IP that I run called gen Explorers

Club it's just cotised right that time

financing was I had to sell tickets to

finance I to go behind sponsors to

finance now financing thanks to these

ticketing Partners has become much easier

easier

alcohol brands are spending more money

on getting experiences people are

getting people became more music

sensitive they would come for certain

acts so basically what I do now it's

exactly what I doing back then but I'm

more organized and I've built a

successful business only focusing on the

Alcohol industry so watch brands come to

me luxury Brands come to me I say no to

everyone what I know very well is

alcohol I know how to I'm the I'm their

friends right so I work with multiple of

his brands I built out one of his gin

Brands an important guy if he comes to

the bar and says this is a cool bar then

you his what he created this gin

Explorer Club is one of the most

fantastic properties yeah and uh it it's

like a carnival music food the alcohol

and it's like to a different level like

for our Jin also Jessel which is now the

largest luxury gin we had a launch in

his GC and immediately it became popular

so what he has created is so at that

time also uh people were not okay Brands

were not okay with partnering an event

where other brands were involved so we

were fortunate enough to get all the Gin

Brands together back then the first GC

at Olive at Olive that was so beautiful

myv actually uh GC started when Anand at

anand's bar so that's where the idea of

GC started when there's a there's a gin

boom which was going on because cocktail

we were actually all the same founder

of I know but that being said now gin

Explorers Club will not only be gin

Explorers Club we we'll be dropping gin

and we'll be entering more categories

under the same Festival tequila is

something which I'm very passionate

about tequila is it really blowing up

like we think or is it only in the

affluent circles globally it's blowing

up India will always be uh in the

affluent but as per the aswr report now

it's it's actually growing three times

which is a very but on a very small base

so it's like saying one glasses have now

to but it's growing faster than

everything else right but the volume

base is very small and it's only the top

level Tequilas which are growing because

if you see the lower level Tequilas

they're not selling at all so we're

still a whiskey market like we we will

be a whiskey market for a really long

time so so you run food talk India which

is the largest food community in India

that's how we started off but right now

I'm focused on Anthem which is a

marketing agency agency which focuses on

the ALCO industry under that we have an

IP called gen explorers club and I've

service perno diio all these brands that

do their marketing strategies

activations events MH and along the way

I built a beverage brand called Jade

Forest because I wanted to be in the in

the space so I was like I I can't create

my own alcohol so I created a mixer

brand why can't you create your own

Alcon it's

expensive um at that point of time I

actually sat with Lama also uh at a

point in time to create my own alcohol I

was just scared uh red tapism every

state has their own excise duties uh um

and even while I run an alcohol agency

people look at you very differently even

when I go and apply for a license for a cocktail

Festival but they look at you in a very

different different way you're the

shadiest of the lot yeah always but now it's

it's

changed where are you hanging out

of who changed we're talking about

larger sense of the word

still very taboo I mean India always

been taboo we've it's still a dark

Market what that means is that you can

still not advertise our it's all

surrogate so we are under surrogate

that's what I realized that that's what

I want to do because it's a dark market

right I want the marketing in fact one

of the biggest amazingly genius move on

his they can't spend anywhere else right

yeah and amazingly we'll come to this as

a topic because see at the end of this

episode we want to tell young people how

to have a job in alcohol alcohol how to

build a business around alcohol how to create

create

cool alcohol

Brands ancillary cocktail mixes wherever

the opportunity is last but not the

least abishek I have to preface abhishek's

abhishek's

introduction uh so we are a very small

miniature partner to abishek in his

business as a equity partner it's a

investment that has done very well for

us uh we never spoken about it publicly

but we have spoken like privately many

times about it I think it's 1.6 1.7%

1.7%

pre no no from the open market I think

close to 500 crores you're holding I

think 400 crores 400 near 400 crores of

abishek stock radico which is a great

investment for me so uh nice don't blame

that's how this is working like you have

vegetarian you have cavar I can't see the

the

caviar but tell us abishek you have

Legacy in this industry I read I didn't

know but 70 years really no actually um

see our company was formed by the Goen

Brothers in

1943 and then um 1973 my dad uh bought

it over from Mr Sanjay

Dalia and uh so from from 1973 our

family is into the alcohol business and

u i studied in modern

school and I always say I'm in the

business of making people happy in

Bangalore you were in boarding school

right no modern school was in Delhi and

then College in Bangalore then College

in Bangalore H so from for me from the

beginning of my school days I always

wanted to create a brand I love alcohol

M that's why I'm happy because I

practice what I preach so I love each

kind of alcohol and um by Nature I

wanted to become a CA But as God had it

in store for me is my mom didn't wanted

me to do four years of CA and then uh

two years uh 3 years of college then

four years of CA then 2 years of MBA so

I landed up in

Bangalore uh for my

engineering and uh I think the kind of

homework I did there by visiting all the

pubs everything paid me very well I

think Bangalore has been my biggest

inspiration of what radico is today

because Bangalore is always known as the

PB City and every street had its own Pub

and uh the liquor consumption that time

was like that time liquor consumption

was not like an fmcg it was more like

you know it was the take system where

you push your material it was not a

consumer's choice but Bangalore was the

only city where you could see the liquor

as an fmcg so I did my engineering there

and uh then in 1996 I finished my

engineering and everything which could

go wrong happened to me I was that time

I think 22 so we had a separation in our

family my father were four brothers and

we got rampur disty

that time I think the turnover of the

company would be about 70 crores and I

had a liability of 50 crores and the

profit would be kind of zero and what

year was this this was in

'96 that's the time I joined business

also we had a bottling contract with one

of the uh leading players in India which

got over so my entire Revenue system was

over company was kind of in losses with

50 crores liabilities so that time I

went to one of the his

bottlers with that and uh he made us

wait for 5 6 hours and wanted us take in

the company so that's the time I went to

dad now our back is against the wall and

I really want to create a brand and let

me try and do it so that's the time as a

company we decided to get into

Brands and um the one of the biggest

task for me was to change the name of

the company so the company was called

rampur Distillery and chemical company

and uh this I was 22 we had 11 uh

foreign companies in India that is the

time that there was a myth the amount of

scotch consumed in India is more than

what is bottled in Scotland and here a

22y old guy coming no Mone nothing

totally like it was a it was a different

scene so first of all it took

me three four presentations to my the

senior team and the age was all high I

was 22 they were all 40 50 years old so

I changed the name of the company from

rampur diser and chemical company to

radical ra of rampur di of distiller and

C of company so that's how radico came

into uh

existence and uh but by the way I love

this part of the story wherein I find

this in many Industries I'm going into invest

invest

uh we have this Western baggage in India

where innately Indians believe that if

the product is foreign it's better like

I was telling you earlier AB we still

sell Indian clothing which is probably

better quality with foreign models on

the face of it so when I saw this

company which was making alcohol called

ramper and jasel mayir in some cases

which was not even aged as much as the

SC spsh counterpart selling for more

than that and people would call me and

be like when we spoke about alcohol they

would be you will only get it in the

dutyfree and only sometimes otherwise

rampur whiskey will be sold out so I was

enamored from the very beginning in

terms of how has a Indian brand been

able to pull that off I feel that way

for all Industries not just

alol sometimes I'm sure your bigger

Market in in your earlier years of

products like rampur would be International

International

right and not no I uh I'll come to

rampur a little later but um so that's

the time like what we did is because

monies were limited so and you had to be

pan India else your marketing Buck would

go waste so I hired a team of 100 people

the average age of my team would be 24

but what I thought if I get experienced

guys they'll ask me a lot of salaries

second they would not agree to what I am

saying so my average age was very less

so my uh payout was less then literally

I went to 10 people begging them that

please bottle for me but I didn't I

could not put up capex so it's

Outsourcing C- packing what you're

saying so I said uh I'm 22 I'm 22 and a

half I want to create a brand blah blah

blah I'm not going to run away so please

bottle so I got 10 people to bottle for

me and then in 98 8th August 98 we

launched our first brand 800 p.m whiskey

and and luckily like I know the ad was

very famous it was the best one of the

best ad of the century the India

Pakistan ad the this thing it was

nominated as one of the best ads what

was the ad remind me it was a border ad

it was two

generals and uh then at the clock strike

the cannon goes up the clock strikes and

then they pass the whiskey it's called

as time for friends it's very popular ad

so so that's how we started then from 98

to 20 6 we mapped out that which are the

lowly sectors the economy segment or the

popular segment the mass market and we

became from 0 to 10 million cases what

is that in money

cases that would be what a turnover of

about 600 700 800 crores

crores

800 so that is what we did and uh that was

was

fascinating then the most important

which was the turnaround in our this

thing is uh I was in Vegas and for me

all the good ideas either come after

8:00 p.m. or at bars because I think

that is my biggest learning that's my

that's that's where I can see the

consumers what they want yeah you you

interact at the either at the bars or at

the shop have you guys been to his home in

Delhi not not his home invited us

I've got seven bars he lives like Batman

what so I went we had an idea of

starting a tequila brand with a certain

famous person I took a bunch of friends

to his house recently for

dinner outside of all the alcohol that

might have been in his house so I went

in the hotel taxi right and we were

going back so when we were leaving

abishek sent a Rolls-Royce a Bentley and

one or two other cars like that and we

went in like a posy of cars and I was

like what is going on and my Inova which

was from the hotel was following me from the

the

Delhi Bangalore also have lot of people

much more

than that is also

different so that I would get it so

anyway so I was in Vegas so there what I

saw that people were ordering watka on

the table greos and the whole Trend was

changing because earlier you never used

to show your bottle off so you know the

the bottle has to be a piece of art what

I realized and the concept came that you

know there was a ice bucket the bottle

was there and people were proud to put

the bottle on the table so I said we

need to create a watka and we want to go and

and

prize so that's the time

I came back I wanted a decorated bottle

but we didn't have money to get the

machine so so I think no one knows this

so I went I met up with kabadi walas so

the first bottle of magic which was

produced was dipped in asset with a

paper label and it looked like a frosted

bottle and everything so magic was born

in 2006 then it kept on innovating and

uh today we are proud because I always

believe that 20 5% of the global market

is vka in India at that time it was only

2% now it's changed to four the watka

consumers are basically the younger

generation that is youngsters and women

which if you see our demographics year

on year every year like 15 million

people are going to come into the

drinking age so I thought that is the

right thing to do so that's how magic

came and today we are proud that magic

is the seventh largest vodka in the

world and India out out of all the vkas

starting from a regular to a Grey Goose

or a Koffman 60% of any vka sold is

Magic wow fantastic so that has been one

of the turning points for us and then

what happened is we we had morphus which

is the largest premium Brandy so even if

you see the packaging what I believe if

the packaging what someone was saying

like packaging is the first thing which

attracts uh to a consumer second is the

most important the blend has to be good

and when you actually make a brand is

when people are proud to have that

sitting together they're not shy away

even if they like the product they like

2014 is um UK and India always have this

uh tussle that uh Indian whiskey cannot

be called as a whiskey because it's not

aged and that's the time if you see all

the new age malts whether yamazaki Etc

were gaining ground earlier like

yamazaki never used to get sold today if

you go go to buy a 15 or a 18 21y old

yamazaki won't get it in the market each

bottle is more than a lak of rupees for

a 25 would be I think about 2 and a half

three lakh rupes and then they also

removed the they have an allocation they

they called me in the please buy us a

bottle amak 18 a bottle but also in fact

I was in Hedonism a bottle of yamazaki

55 guess how much was it retailing for

no idea any guess 50 lakhs must be 6 and

a half CR wow and people actually buy

yeah absolutely it's crazy I'm telling

you I chines like art yeah it's like art

the Chinese no price but art you don't

drink no but nowadays if you see wine

and mold it appreciates it appreciates

and people are reselling there a

reselling situation bars actually get

invited to these closed rooms sessions

invested in barels like few of the these

auction houses I

think auction houses so that's the time

we created in 2016 our rampur single

malt and uh today we have seven

Expressions the cheapest is $100 a

bottle and in fact lately uh uh we had

400 bottles of chairman Reserve first

bottle was uh in London it was sold for

1 lakh which got re auctioned for 2

lakhs so we had saved some bottles which

is now uh in Hyderabad dutyfree and

retailing at 5 lakhs a bottle and it

sold out yeah there's now I think only two

two

left 400 bottles yeah so that's 20 CR of

sales no no I start I started with one

right but in the end there were three

four bottles left which we sold which is

now detailing at 5 lakhs there's a good

Insight on the market like when we are

priced ing products across category

where like if 400 Indians are willing to

pay 5 lakh rupees a bottle they can pay

20,000 for for a

shirt absolutely indian-made

watches as far as we can push this

needle of Indian craftsmanship and the

ability of the Indian Artisan in every

Department I feel like you know like

enough of white stuff here why not our

stuff sell there culturally we're more

creative anything n what I'm saying with

especially our prime minister yeah the

Indians the kind of respect the kind of

Aura Indians have you know earlier they

used to doubt the quality of Indian

product but today India commands one of

the biggest uh premiums that is why like

a single malt is on allocation and uh we

also launch like taking from your Jin it

can be always debated whether Jin was

invented in England or Holland but Jin

and tonic was the invention of India in

1910 you'll be surprised when there was

a malaria outbreak so the britishers

what they did they uh they had to have

uh this quinine so they mixed quinine

with lime water and andin in the end and

yeah soda then they added Jin so Jin and

tonic is the creation of India that's

why every tonic water is Indian tonic

water and how big is radico

now see radico now is uh like our turnov

last year was about 4,200 crores and uh

market cap is close to about 22 23,000

CR I I read in the news somewhere that

abishek had become a billionaire on

Forbes how did that feel what changed

see being a billionaire Etc is all

numbers it's all Market but in the end

what is more important that the Indian

products going abroad create that name

like our Jin Jessel rampur because

numbers will keep changing so that does

not give me a kick once the products

become Global and respected I think

that's the main kick about that value

that value change okay so now that the

introductions are over we'll get into

the meat of what we were here to discuss

the intent is to find young people out

there want to be entrepreneurs

and tell them how they can get a job in

owning a bar starting a liquor company

working in a liquor company doing

advertising for liquor

companies uh this seems to be such a

large ecosystem with so many

opportunities but nobody I looked up

online I searched a

lot no one has articulated the A to Z

Journey when somebody gets interested

and starts working earning a buck from

this industry

in a very tangible comprehendable manner

so we'll try and attempt to do that so

before we talk about opportunities in

this industry maybe a good place to

start is by establishing how big the

industry is which part of it is growing

faster than other parts and uh then try

to narrow in on what somebody looking to

begin here should do would you say the

hard liquor Market in India is about $40 billion

billion

no no much more you think liquor hard

liquor 40 million billion 40 billion 50 billion is total Market size and beer is

billion is total Market size and beer is about 12 billion yeah about 1230

about 12 billion yeah about 1230 something like that so the interesting

something like that so the interesting thing is in India is the only country in

thing is in India is the only country in the tropical Zone where you do roughly

the tropical Zone where you do roughly around 350 million cases of heart liquor

around 350 million cases of heart liquor considering you also country regular

considering you also country regular Spirits also and about the same quantity

Spirits also and about the same quantity of beer but if you compare it to Vietnam

of beer but if you compare it to Vietnam which is on the same heat temperature

which is on the same heat temperature distance Vietnam does 300 million cases

distance Vietnam does 300 million cases of beer but only 30 million cases of

of beer but only 30 million cases of hard liquor so we are extremely over

hard liquor so we are extremely over indexed on hard liquor why I think one

indexed on hard liquor why I think one of the key reasons is I think if you

of the key reasons is I think if you look at the psychology we have to look

look at the psychology we have to look at India Urban India is very unlivable

at India Urban India is very unlivable and one of the big you know the the

and one of the big you know the the consumption U you know categories that

consumption U you know categories that these uh the imfl category gets its

these uh the imfl category gets its volumes from is the post work going home

volumes from is the post work going home period which in the traditional liquor

period which in the traditional liquor Palin you call it charar moment like

Palin you call it charar moment like four people working in different jobs

four people working in different jobs would come together sit at a small take

would come together sit at a small take enjoy have that one break and then go

enjoy have that one break and then go home to the and and you know look at the

home to the and and you know look at the transit times within City so you have

transit times within City so you have really short of time so this moment of

really short of time so this moment of like maybe taking a little break from

like maybe taking a little break from your routine is very short hence the

your routine is very short hence the consumption style and pattern has also

consumption style and pattern has also been developed around this so what

been developed around this so what happens is we are extremely over indexed

happens is we are extremely over indexed on the 180 ML nip so what is n so in

on the 180 ML nip so what is n so in terms of pack sizes I think 80% of the

terms of pack sizes I think 80% of the it is like is a full bottle which is and

it is like is a full bottle which is and the 375 and 180 ml is a nip so they call

the 375 and 180 ml is a nip so they call it PA so what happens usually in the say

it PA so what happens usually in the say up to a level of a semi- premium segment

up to a level of a semi- premium segment that is up till say a royal stag yeah so

that is up till say a royal stag yeah so you'll see guys will meet at a place a

you'll see guys will meet at a place a it's called

it's called they'll buy a nip AATA

they'll buy a nip AATA a per per room so there they'll take a

a per per room so there they'll take a nip and they'll finish it and then go

nip and they'll finish it and then go home for work but so go home for uh

home for work but so go home for uh meeting their wives or anyone so that so

meeting their wives or anyone so that so it's basically summarized as bang for

it's basically summarized as bang for your buck A lot of times this happens so

your buck A lot of times this happens so it's you have 1 hour if you drink two

it's you have 1 hour if you drink two beers the high that you get the high

beers the high that you get the high that you get versus you drink

prium lior it is different but for the is the biggest because they like to get

is the biggest because they like to get high which is surprising which is

high which is surprising which is surprising like it nowhere in the world

surprising like it nowhere in the world 80% would be strong nowhere nowhere what

80% would be strong nowhere nowhere what do people drink for is it to

do people drink for is it to escape is it to escape the monotony of

escape is it to escape the monotony of life is it to get a

life is it to get a high is it cultural in the sense that

high is it cultural in the sense that it's a activity that you like doing

it's a activity that you like doing along with your friends and family

along with your friends and family why why does India drink it's also D

why why does India drink it's also D broken up into segments the Country

broken up into segments the Country Liquor drinking class they for them it's

Liquor drinking class they for them it's price point and they want to get high at

price point and they want to get high at the lowest cost um what do you think no

the lowest cost um what do you think no I'll change there like I studied in

I'll change there like I studied in Bangalore so say the he's talking about

Bangalore so say the he's talking about the Country Liquor or the lowest segment

the Country Liquor or the lowest segment so you'll be surprised these guys go to

so you'll be surprised these guys go to work at 8 a.m. you know they do physical

work at 8 a.m. you know they do physical labor I've seen them because I used to

labor I've seen them because I used to have in my DMS College the industrial

have in my DMS College the industrial engineering start to break the hammer

engineering start to break the hammer and everything like that you know so

and everything like that you know so 6:00 you'll see that guy in a liquor

6:00 you'll see that guy in a liquor shop and how they drink it is amazing

shop and how they drink it is amazing they'll take a nip is called a spwa in

they'll take a nip is called a spwa in Hindi so they'll take it boom and then

Hindi so they'll take it boom and then they'll go for work it's so physical

they'll go for work it's so physical after their work they'll again come back

after their work they'll again come back have one more and then go home and sleep

have one more and then go home and sleep and no need of a mixer no need of a

and no need of a mixer no need of a mixer if they pick it up for 50 rupes

mixer if they pick it up for 50 rupes now or 40 rupees that that's a typical

now or 40 rupees that that's a typical percentage alcohol is this uh 28% no

percentage alcohol is this uh 28% no this is

this is 42% no no it depends like you have 26 36

42% no no it depends like you have 26 36 and 4 so recently I've done a Content

and 4 so recently I've done a Content series on Country Liquor and i' which is

series on Country Liquor and i' which is doing very well for me so I've actually

doing very well for me so I've actually picked up Country Liquor from all over

picked up Country Liquor from all over the country and I've been uh tasting

the country and I've been uh tasting them and they don't taste as bad because

them and they don't taste as bad because of the low ABV although they have

of the low ABV although they have synthetic flavors in it what is ABV

synthetic flavors in it what is ABV alcohol by Vol alcohol by volume uh

alcohol by Vol alcohol by volume uh which is not strong so a typical whiskey

which is not strong so a typical whiskey which would be a 40% uh ATA which is

which would be a 40% uh ATA which is your country made liquor is 28% so you

your country made liquor is 28% so you can drink it directly versus whiskey but

can drink it directly versus whiskey but that you need a

that you need a mixer and they have all those local

flavors all that it's very different it's the local local Flavors of India

it's the local local Flavors of India names like whatever like fun I think

names like whatever like fun I think these are fun names I think that'll be a

these are fun names I think that'll be a fun content piece if and I had one which

fun content piece if and I had one which tasted just like sambuka like you put it

tasted just like sambuka like you put it you put sambuka and you put this other

you put sambuka and you put this other country made liquor will not be able to

country made liquor will not be able to tell the difference this doesn't sound

tell the difference this doesn't sound necessarily like a good thing right

necessarily like a good thing right somebody gulping 180 ML it's not it's

somebody gulping 180 ML it's not it's not it is not it it is irresponsible

not it is not it it is irresponsible drinking but they don't have any other

drinking but they don't have any other option right uh Mass level drinking it's

option right uh Mass level drinking it's it's to get high to answer your question

it's to get high to answer your question it's mostly to get high quickly for the

it's mostly to get high quickly for the money that You' spend what is the

money that You' spend what is the psychology behind wanting to get high

psychology behind wanting to get high why is this laborer who is making let's

why is this laborer who is making let's say 800 rupees a day to go and lift

say 800 rupees a day to go and lift something for 8 hours or 10 hours or 12

something for 8 hours or 10 hours or 12 why does he want to get high at the

why does he want to get high at the beginning of his day it's the same

beginning of his day it's the same psychology that a corporate CEO probably

psychology that a corporate CEO probably comes home and has a whiskey at home

comes home and has a whiskey at home before they get sit down on the dinner

before they get sit down on the dinner table it's the same psychology you are

table it's the same psychology you are tired you want to get away you want to

tired you want to get away you want to spend your day not thinking about maybe

spend your day not thinking about maybe work and socializing or talking to your

work and socializing or talking to your friends or your work friends whoever you

friends or your work friends whoever you talk to but from that point of view it

talk to but from that point of view it is that break they they want to they

is that break they they want to they don't want to like because their life is

don't want to like because their life is so tough they don't want to just yeah

so tough they don't want to just yeah it's physical labor it's taxing I mean

it's physical labor it's taxing I mean they have enough issues I feel like I

they have enough issues I feel like I think it's it's a lot of that I mean as

think it's it's a lot of that I mean as part of diio we did a lot of rounds in

part of diio we did a lot of rounds in many many liquor stores permit rooms and

many many liquor stores permit rooms and one of the biggest learnings was that

one of the biggest learnings was that why are they sitting here and drinking

why are they sitting here and drinking is because they all need to get home in

is because they all need to get home in half an hour and then start that whole

half an hour and then start that whole day again this is one break you got in

day again this is one break you got in the whole day where you could get away

the whole day where you could get away with your friends or whoever you drink

with your friends or whoever you drink with I mean that's irrespective you can

with I mean that's irrespective you can drink alone and still find you know that

drink alone and still find you know that so I think it's that right because we

so I think it's that right because we can't go around this question do you

can't go around this question do you think alcohol net net for society is

think alcohol net net for society is good or bad and explain why make a case

good or bad and explain why make a case on this side and on the

on this side and on the other I mean you are

other I mean you are talking I'll give you see anywhere where

talking I'll give you see anywhere where alcohol is banned whether it was us Etc

alcohol is banned whether it was us Etc it has L the economy into shambles

it has L the economy into shambles yeah what she's rightly saying drinking

yeah what she's rightly saying drinking alcohol in moderation is very good

alcohol in moderation is very good you're talking Kennedy time boot

you're talking Kennedy time boot leggings even the doctor say a glass of

leggings even the doctor say a glass of wi or 60 ml a day is very good for the

wi or 60 ml a day is very good for the heart so I think anything in moderation

heart so I think anything in moderation is good so what you're saying is

is good so what you're saying is culturally alcohol has been a part of

culturally alcohol has been a part of our life centuries and if you ban it

our life centuries and if you ban it what happened in US prohibition the

what happened in US prohibition the money from alcohol will not go to you

money from alcohol will not go to you guys but it'll go to the dark elements

guys but it'll go to the dark elements but that being said if um I don't I'm

but that being said if um I don't I'm not very good with the numbers of

not very good with the numbers of America but the younger generation that

America but the younger generation that I tend to engage with once in a while

I tend to engage with once in a while they're not drinking as much as we were

they're not drinking as much as we were drinking when we were younger at least

drinking when we were younger at least they were not drink they're not drinking

they were not drink they're not drinking as much as I would drink when I the

as much as I would drink when I the Young Generation in India also maybe

Young Generation in India also maybe they don't have

they don't have foures they're doing other things to get

foures they're doing other things to get high but they're still getting high but

high but they're still getting high but they caring about calories they're

they caring about calories they're caring about hangovers compared to what

caring about hangovers compared to what we would we didn't have those

we would we didn't have those alternatives interesting point do you

alternatives interesting point do you guys individually believe that you

guys individually believe that you become a different person a slightly

become a different person a slightly different version of yourself absolutely

different version of yourself absolutely AB how do you Che it's a chemical

AB how do you Che it's a chemical reaction in your body I mean this is

reaction in your body I mean this is finally it's not just a product in the

finally it's not just a product in the air right I'm not consuming fashion

air right I'm not consuming fashion through my eyes I'm actually consuming

through my eyes I'm actually consuming it in my body so it is actually changing

it in my body so it is actually changing there's a molecular change that you go

there's a molecular change that you go through when you have alcohol so how

through when you have alcohol so how does minaki change I I mean I get more I

does minaki change I I mean I get more I I love to dance and I love great music I

I love to dance and I love great music I like to put I mean some of us have seen

like to put I mean some of us have seen us very drunk but we've had some great

us very drunk but we've had some great nights and you also also at at any point

nights and you also also at at any point in time whenever you are drinking you

in time whenever you are drinking you are your guards are down like I said

are your guards are down like I said right so you are more open to knowing

right so you are more open to knowing people and talking to people when you

people and talking to people when you are say having a drink versus not having

are say having a drink versus not having a drink I think I become funnier uh I

a drink I think I become funnier uh I become more social and I become more

become more social and I become more chatty abishek I've seen love

chatty abishek I've seen love yeah see I always say I'm the business

yeah see I always say I'm the business of making people happy so I become

of making people happy so I become happy same I think you know largely to a

happy same I think you know largely to a to a great extent but more of also

to a great extent but more of also sometime you also want to consume

sometime you also want to consume something on your own personal space as

something on your own personal space as well like just you know in the unwind

well like just you know in the unwind moment that's also something which is

moment that's also something which is very interesting but very specific then

very interesting but very specific then you know okay so we established that the

you know okay so we established that the hard liquor Market is 40 billion beer is

hard liquor Market is 40 billion beer is 12

12 billion so we have some data that says

billion so we have some data that says that correct me when I'm wrong UB has

that correct me when I'm wrong UB has 25% market share followed by spirit and

25% market share followed by spirit and beer together Country Liquor has 20% no

beer together Country Liquor has 20% no actually if you see 400 million in terms

actually if you see 400 million in terms of value term I'll tell you the thing

of value term I'll tell you the thing value terms yes not volume 400 million

value terms yes not volume 400 million is the hard liquor M so 400 million

is the hard liquor M so 400 million cases Country Liquor would be again a

cases Country Liquor would be again a 300 million cases mark

300 million cases mark but maybe not uh in numbers 51% isue so

but maybe not uh in numbers 51% isue so value would be very less revenue revenue

value would be very less revenue revenue would 51% won't it be Country Liquor no

would 51% won't it be Country Liquor no no much much less 20% your state data is

no much much less 20% your state data is correct much less because the the value

correct much less because the the value is very less Val low yeah okay follow

is very less Val low yeah okay follow maybe followed by diio at 17 aner Bush B

maybe followed by diio at 17 aner Bush B record radical ketan 3% no we we of the

record radical ketan 3% no we we of the market size we're about 10%

right so what did these brands do correctly which somebody

correctly which somebody can use to emulate somebody can build

can use to emulate somebody can build around if you had to talk about

around if you had to talk about underlying Trends in the Brewing space

underlying Trends in the Brewing space uh what is changing today that I should

uh what is changing today that I should focus on imagine I am a 25 year old who

focus on imagine I am a 25 year old who has managed to raise 10 CR rupees and I

has managed to raise 10 CR rupees and I want to start a liquor brand

want to start a liquor brand should I do tequila should I try and

should I do tequila should I try and figure out what UB is doing correctly I

figure out what UB is doing correctly I had an interesting conversation with an

had an interesting conversation with an ex executive at UB who

ex executive at UB who said that off late they've been trying

said that off late they've been trying to push hinin instead of KF and it's a

to push hinin instead of KF and it's a strategy that has not worked yes and

strategy that has not worked yes and they're falling back on selling KF again

they're falling back on selling KF again exactly something on those lines yeah

exactly something on those lines yeah silver King henen silver was their MO

silver King henen silver was their MO right same thing which happened like if

right same thing which happened like if you see the Wars which happened with

you see the Wars which happened with thumbs up and Coke yeah so what do I do

thumbs up and Coke yeah so what do I do I have 10 CR rupees that I have raised a

I have 10 CR rupees that I have raised a venture capital fund has given me the

venture capital fund has given me the money I want to start a liquor liquor

money I want to start a liquor liquor brand what should I

brand what should I start so I deal with these young people

start so I deal with these young people on a daily basis who want to start a

on a daily basis who want to start a liquor brand when you talk about numbers

liquor brand when you talk about numbers and market share most of these kids do

and market share most of these kids do not know their numbers and they don't

not know their numbers and they don't want to go into building a tequila or

want to go into building a tequila or building a gin because they want to

building a gin because they want to capture market share they they want to

capture market share they they want to create a product they want the first

create a product they want the first thing that they want to create is they

thing that they want to create is they want to create a differentiated product

want to create a differentiated product which is the first thing that they come

which is the first thing that they come up with saying that oh My Gin has hem

up with saying that oh My Gin has hem seeds in it that's why I'm different or

seeds in it that's why I'm different or my tequila has this certain type of

my tequila has this certain type of agave that I'm importing in that's why

agave that I'm importing in that's why I'm Different they don't go in with the

I'm Different they don't go in with the mentality saying that oh I want to

mentality saying that oh I want to capture 50% market share of the Gin

capture 50% market share of the Gin category in the country number one

category in the country number one number two they feel that the Indian

number two they feel that the Indian brands or the international Brands which

brands or the international Brands which are there they can do a better job in

are there they can do a better job in packaging positioning marketing compared

packaging positioning marketing compared to these bigger players thirdly they

to these bigger players thirdly they feel is become much easier compared to

feel is become much easier compared to what it was before that okay I know a

what it was before that okay I know a friend who knows a co-packer all I have

friend who knows a co-packer all I have to go and do is create a recipe I don't

to go and do is create a recipe I don't want to be a manufacturer I want to be a

want to be a manufacturer I want to be a brand owner and I want to be a

brand owner and I want to be a distributor versus going into the entire

distributor versus going into the entire capex model can you manufacturer bro on

capex model can you manufacturer bro on your own with 10 CR rupe Capital that

your own with 10 CR rupe Capital that I've raised you

I've raised you set you can set up a

set you can set up a distill with but most your money will go

distill with but most your money will go into you

into you cannot too

cannot too less I think you can I raised my first

less I think you can I raised my first round was eight cror and we spent almost

round was eight cror and we spent almost six in kex because we really wanted the

six in kex because we really wanted the best equipment to brew but that was the

best equipment to brew but that was the whole journey that came to the point

whole journey that came to the point that you know we' done all everything

that you know we' done all everything that we could and then you only needed

that we could and then you only needed the money so with six CR rupees in

the money so with six CR rupees in equipment you can start a independent

equipment you can start a independent beer company in India but the the

beer company in India but the the journey to the six CR is not see the

journey to the six CR is not see the money is the least important thing in

money is the least important thing in this whole Matrix I think one of the

this whole Matrix I think one of the most important things is you once you

most important things is you once you the what you are trying to do has to

the what you are trying to do has to fully resonate with you like how

fully resonate with you like how minakshi has been running her bar for

minakshi has been running her bar for day in day out for years and you keep

day in day out for years and you keep getting better at what you do by being

getting better at what you do by being at it what if I I don't know what

at it what if I I don't know what resonates with me I want to find from

resonates with me I want to find from the lens of capitalism the lwh hanging

the lens of capitalism the lwh hanging fruit of today so one of the I'm okay

fruit of today so one of the I'm okay with going to a co-packer I don't have

with going to a co-packer I don't have to manufacture I don't have to spend

to manufacture I don't have to spend money on

money on that what brand and what price point

that what brand and what price point what category category the question is

what category category the question is category and I would say the highest

category and I would say the highest category is whiskey and I would say that

category is whiskey and I would say that and stuff like that would be your most

and stuff like that would be your most profitable category and by far is the

profitable category and by far is the one that actually has test the test of

one that actually has test the test of stood the test of time as well like I've

stood the test of time as well like I've seen people set up with 30 to 50 lakh

seen people set up with 30 to 50 lakh rupees how their money is spent U maybe

rupees how their money is spent U maybe 10% is spent on creating the brand the

10% is spent on creating the brand the balance goes into actually paying uh

balance goes into actually paying uh listing fees uh in every state so they

listing fees uh in every state so they usually start off people from Goa they

usually start off people from Goa they started from Goa then they go to either

started from Goa then they go to either Delhi or gura and I'm talking about Jin

Delhi or gura and I'm talking about Jin as a category because that's a space I

as a category because that's a space I know um in Delhi you have to pay per

know um in Delhi you have to pay per brand which will be about 12 lakh rupees

brand which will be about 12 lakh rupees for vodka and Jin that's where most of

for vodka and Jin that's where most of the money is going initially go to

the money is going initially go to market 30 to 50 lakh rupees people can

market 30 to 50 lakh rupees people can start off their brand initially through

start off their brand initially through a cacer if you want to start the journey

a cacer if you want to start the journey is really long the answer your

is really long the answer your question you have to have sixc every

question you have to have sixc every year so we are not talking

year so we are not talking about one no no but then I'm just saying

about one no no but then I'm just saying you set up about no no what about like

you set up about no no what about like I'll tell you like in our industry if

I'll tell you like in our industry if you want to go all India you have to

you want to go all India you have to have 35 bottling units right then it's a

have 35 bottling units right then it's a dark environment so it depends on the

dark environment so it depends on the category so with such a small amount you

category so with such a small amount you can only make a mark If you go into a

can only make a mark If you go into a niche category which I'm fine doing yeah

niche category which I'm fine doing yeah which only you get into a niche category

which only you get into a niche category right there also you have to the most

right there also you have to the most important is you have to have the

important is you have to have the patience because what I feel to get the

patience because what I feel to get the first 10,000 consumer is the toughest

first 10,000 consumer is the toughest that is the biggest Journey which we

that is the biggest Journey which we I've seen in all my Brands because once

I've seen in all my Brands because once that 10,000 are loyalist consumers will

that 10,000 are loyalist consumers will talk to they'll make 50,000 consumer

talk to they'll make 50,000 consumer then Millions comes that's happened with

then Millions comes that's happened with each of my Brands it goes slow but then

each of my Brands it goes slow but then it just takes off so the minute you push

it just takes off so the minute you push your brand and the most important

your brand and the most important industry is the payment the minute you

industry is the payment the minute you push your primaries and you don't look

push your primaries and you don't look at your secondaries and tertiaries the

at your secondaries and tertiaries the brand is finished what is primary

brand is finished what is primary secondary tertiary primary is suppose if

secondary tertiary primary is suppose if I give to a distributor then secondary

I give to a distributor then secondary is when it goes to the retail the most

is when it goes to the retail the most important is the tery is the retail oft

important is the tery is the retail oft any retailer will take your material but

any retailer will take your material but till the time it does not go out he

till the time it does not go out he won't not making any money till the end

won't not making any money till the end the biggest problem don't pay in our

the biggest problem don't pay in our industry what makaki is rightly saying I

industry what makaki is rightly saying I Echo her what she's saying with a six CR

Echo her what she's saying with a six CR fun you it's it's like if you click it

fun you it's it's like if you click it you're a God but you should have that

you're a God but you should have that capital of at least 50 crores Etc but he

capital of at least 50 crores Etc but he did it with 10

did it with 10 Fant so I have

Fant so I have one about alcohol beer is a different

one about alcohol beer is a different category I'm I'm open to

category I'm I'm open to beila Jan anything so I've looked at

beila Jan anything so I've looked at even Alan story and these other gin

even Alan story and these other gin Brands they didn't start off they first

Brands they didn't start off they first they were going to co-packers and no no

they were going to co-packers and no no C- Packer wanted to bottle their product

C- Packer wanted to bottle their product right they were if you go to copac and

right they were if you go to copac and tell them if I come to you and tell you

tell them if I come to you and tell you I want to build 750 cases in a year no

I want to build 750 cases in a year no they'll say that's too less for me right

they'll say that's too less for me right so that's the main thing that you have

so that's the main thing that you have to start small which co- Packer should I

to start small which co- Packer should I go to any names recommendations people

go to any names recommendations people who have repute so I think co- Packers

who have repute so I think co- Packers there are many you should probably

there are many you should probably choose a market where the resistance the

choose a market where the resistance the friction to get your product to the

friction to get your product to the consumer is the least so don't go to

consumer is the least so don't go to markets where there is very high

markets where there is very high regulation Goa we were you know an

regulation Goa we were you know an entire ecosystem I think please come to

entire ecosystem I think please come to Goa I think Goa has great co-packers Goa

Goa I think Goa has great co-packers Goa has great C- Packers also extremely um

has great C- Packers also extremely um so the there are two three types of

so the there are two three types of markets that happen in India Goa is

markets that happen in India Goa is considered an open market like

considered an open market like Maharashtra where you have a distributor

Maharashtra where you have a distributor it it almost operates very similar to

it it almost operates very similar to say any other business like you have you

say any other business like you have you have the freedom to do if you are in

have the freedom to do if you are in Karnataka you have to sell to the

Karnataka you have to sell to the government so you have much higher

government so you have much higher control so as a I don't want to get into

control so as a I don't want to get into the complexity of different states cuz I

the complexity of different states cuz I think there are too many rules but are

think there are too many rules but are you talking about liquor or you're

you talking about liquor or you're talking about beer either anything I

talking about beer either anything I think both are different uh in Goa

think both are different uh in Goa getting a co-packer is easier getting a

getting a co-packer is easier getting a name a C- Packer somebody somebody of

name a C- Packer somebody somebody of repute U greater than and you know there

repute U greater than and you know there are a bunch like there are 30 greater

are a bunch like there are 30 greater than is a C- Packer it is being made at

than is a C- Packer it is being made at one of the factories also model they

one of the factories also model they started from there also model is that

started from there also model is that you go to coopaca and if you if the

you go to coopaca and if you if the coopaca doesn't have the still that you

coopaca doesn't have the still that you want to use in order to make your

want to use in order to make your product since the coopaca has all the

product since the coopaca has all the licenses which is actually the majority

licenses which is actually the majority of the C the cost Bigg work the biggest

of the C the cost Bigg work the biggest work the biggest headache of your fire

work the biggest headache of your fire your chemical you have multiple licenses

your chemical you have multiple licenses where initially if you want to raise

where initially if you want to raise money to build your own distillery

money to build your own distillery that's where your money will go is when

that's where your money will go is when you import a Ste put it give it to your

you import a Ste put it give it to your coper and tell him to use this still to

coper and tell him to use this still to make your product yeah and then get a

make your product yeah and then get a good distiller yeah so when you say

good distiller yeah so when you say bottler do you mean caca yeah yeah same

bottler do you mean caca yeah yeah same thing can I find a C- Packer for whiskey

thing can I find a C- Packer for whiskey yeah yeah you can So for anybody for any

yeah yeah you can So for anybody for any Spirit any Spirit yeah so then I don't

Spirit any Spirit yeah so then I don't need that much money right if I'm using

need that much money right if I'm using a co-packer and making whiskey this

a co-packer and making whiskey this recipe how do I go about getting it what

recipe how do I go about getting it what what is it I remember Kiran Kiran had

what is it I remember Kiran Kiran had this license in beer brewing whatever

this license in beer brewing whatever she studied

she studied microbiology she spoke about

microbiology she spoke about how the recipe is such an important

how the recipe is such an important ingredient absolutely I don't know

ingredient absolutely I don't know anything about liquor I have raised 10

anything about liquor I have raised 10 crores from a venture capital fund I

crores from a venture capital fund I have a broad plan in mind I go to a

have a broad plan in mind I go to a coopaca blue ocean somebody equally

coopaca blue ocean somebody equally relevant we'll put out names at the end

relevant we'll put out names at the end of this podcast with some research we'll

of this podcast with some research we'll take it from you yeah who are good co

take it from you yeah who are good co backers Second Step recipe how do I find

backers Second Step recipe how do I find a recipe you will get a consultant most

a recipe you will get a consultant most people get a consultant on board you

people get a consultant on board you either get a distiller for example I I

either get a distiller for example I I mean just giving you an example again

mean just giving you an example again because we know these guys greater than

because we know these guys greater than an husha was made by by somebody who was

an husha was made by by somebody who was making Jin in in uh they came back from

making Jin in in uh they came back from bomb safire right so the legacy is Big

bomb safire right so the legacy is Big what's their name I don't I wouldn't

what's their name I don't I wouldn't know their name but I I know the lady I

know their name but I I know the lady I met her so we'll put we'll put the stuff

met her so we'll put we'll put the stuff you go two ways either you get a

you go two ways either you get a consultant on board who will take you

consultant on board who will take you through this entire process or you get a

through this entire process or you get a master how do you find a consultant who

master how do you find a consultant who will take you through the process

will take you through the process difficult to find in India no it's not

difficult to find in India no it's not difficult to find a consultant

difficult to find a consultant Consultants you'll get but the

Consultants you'll get but the consultant will also help you get a

consultant will also help you get a master distill from another example they

master distill from another example they went to proof and go proof and Co is a

went to proof and go proof and Co is a globally International well-known

globally International well-known company that consults Brands to create

company that consults Brands to create brands also uses proof and Co yeah so

brands also uses proof and Co yeah so proof and Co was had used it and when

proof and Co was had used it and when they came to India they were already

they came to India they were already existing as a as a bottling unit mostly

existing as a as a bottling unit mostly out of manisa right and then they

out of manisa right and then they actually created thein with proof and Co

actually created thein with proof and Co proper um you know guidance through like

proper um you know guidance through like the entire recipe creating the entire

the entire recipe creating the entire story everything was out there so how do

story everything was out there so how do I meet these people how do I have this

I meet these people how do I have this dialogue see we we want a particular

dialogue see we we want a particular outcome at the end of this conversation

outcome at the end of this conversation we want a road map wherein so many young

we want a road map wherein so many young people at least like a couple of them

people at least like a couple of them raise 10 crores build liquor companies

raise 10 crores build liquor companies hope hopefully one day become as

hope hopefully one day become as successful as radico and Indian alcohol

successful as radico and Indian alcohol Finds Its place in the global ecosystem

Finds Its place in the global ecosystem because young people coming in will

because young people coming in will experiment do different things it will

experiment do different things it will improve the alcohol of the the quality

improve the alcohol of the the quality of alcohol best way like even when I was

of alcohol best way like even when I was building my non-alcoholic beverage band

building my non-alcoholic beverage band you have to pick up the phone call up

you have to pick up the phone call up people from the industry show there are

people from the industry show there are many trade shows I would say like

many trade shows I would say like there's Berlin bar convention in India

there's Berlin bar convention in India there's bruis and spirits that happens

there's bruis and spirits that happens in uh in Bangalore multiple places have

in uh in Bangalore multiple places have now this is this is the thing right

now this is this is the thing right India has very few trade only

India has very few trade only conventions when it comes to liquor like

conventions when it comes to liquor like AAR is a huge thing but mostly focused

AAR is a huge thing but mostly focused on food and fmcg food right but alcohol

on food and fmcg food right but alcohol has very few of these um where you

has very few of these um where you actually meet people who are creating

actually meet people who are creating stuff like the the bottler is standing

stuff like the the bottler is standing there trying to sell and say that come

there trying to sell and say that come to me and make the brand with me I will

to me and make the brand with me I will give you the best price so you have to

give you the best price so you have to put yourself out there definitely travel

put yourself out there definitely travel there are many many trade shows that

there are many many trade shows that happen and we can give give you again

happen and we can give give you again names for that and of course the biggest

names for that and of course the biggest of the shows are the BCBS and the London

of the shows are the BCBS and the London cocktail weeks of the world which which

cocktail weeks of the world which which bring a lot of people together and you

bring a lot of people together and you will have distillers bottlers creators

will have distillers bottlers creators blenders and investors in one room but

blenders and investors in one room but that again is not India Centric I think

that again is not India Centric I think India Centric is only India is very few

India Centric is only India is very few I think I I mean I don't know how many

I think I I mean I don't know how many you I think see let's let's break it

you I think see let's let's break it into two three parts number one to

into two three parts number one to create an alcohol brand what does it

create an alcohol brand what does it take it takes a great blend which is the

take it takes a great blend which is the most important

most important it takes packaging Innovation and

it takes packaging Innovation and thirdly the space you want to be so any

thirdly the space you want to be so any guy who's starting has to be passionate

guy who's starting has to be passionate like her thing if she started sidecar

like her thing if she started sidecar she was passionate else to win the top

she was passionate else to win the top Asia bar and World bar is not a joke and

Asia bar and World bar is not a joke and make assumption they are passionate

make assumption they are passionate people so then they should know which

people so then they should know which segment where is the global industry

segment where is the global industry does it work for the Indian pet or not

does it work for the Indian pet or not so even if these shows are happening

so even if these shows are happening abroad somebody from here can go there

abroad somebody from here can go there attend buy

attend buy tickets

tickets they with HR you can get lot of blenders

they with HR you can get lot of blenders who have worked for blenders with HR

who have worked for blenders with HR like HR firms who have passed Dio P

like HR firms who have passed Dio P porno P XYZ there lot of consultant

porno P XYZ there lot of consultant consultant retired people have created

consultant retired people have created successful PL so you can get people

successful PL so you can get people there second is to identify the right

there second is to identify the right product I think that is where the where

product I think that is where the where the art of the youngsters will come in

the art of the youngsters will come in like sers has been started by younger

like sers has been started by younger generation this is my next question so

generation this is my next question so now that you figure out a bottler who is

now that you figure out a bottler who is also a co-packer you figure out the

also a co-packer you figure out the formula I I'll leave yeah the recipe

formula I I'll leave yeah the recipe yeah recipe the re call formula so I

yeah recipe the re call formula so I think you

think you simply if you want to start for the for

simply if you want to start for the for somebody who's just starting now I think

somebody who's just starting now I think one of the simplest things one should do

one of the simplest things one should do is first go to the Super spend a lot of

is first go to the Super spend a lot of time in Supermarket just keep observing

time in Supermarket just keep observing the Shelf do nothing the trend just let

the Shelf do nothing the trend just let people come shop at the supermarket see

people come shop at the supermarket see what's moving on the counter observe

what's moving on the counter observe talk to Consumers just be in that zone

talk to Consumers just be in that zone old school go to go to the bar sit at

old school go to go to the bar sit at the bar keep seeing what's happening

the bar keep seeing what's happening give it time then you will come with the

give it time then you will come with the inspiration which is you know that it is

inspiration which is you know that it is differentiated it's not coming from some

differentiated it's not coming from some knowledge of somebody else Western

knowledge of somebody else Western knowledge never works in India we like

knowledge never works in India we like every pin code in India I say we have a

every pin code in India I say we have a culture code it changes it's it's

culture code it changes it's it's phenomenally bizarre so you have to be

phenomenally bizarre so you have to be very sure about what you are inspired by

very sure about what you are inspired by and you have understood a sense of the

and you have understood a sense of the market by being there looking and

market by being there looking and feeling it yourself that's the first

feeling it yourself that's the first step then you are inspired than all the

step then you are inspired than all the other things so if you are a brewer it's

other things so if you are a brewer it's you know you simply it's the most

you know you simply it's the most collaborative open we have so many home

collaborative open we have so many home Brewers who come to us conventions that

Brewers who come to us conventions that happen anyone who wants to make can join

happen anyone who wants to make can join these conven we have an East Library we

these conven we have an East Library we always offer East trains to people we

always offer East trains to people we give small mold batches to people who

give small mold batches to people who want to go and try you don't need more

want to go and try you don't need more than 5,000 Rupees to create a small home

than 5,000 Rupees to create a small home brewing kit at home experiment be on the

brewing kit at home experiment be on the kitchen s give it that time once you

kitchen s give it that time once you know the product whatever you're trying

know the product whatever you're trying to make there's so much learning

to make there's so much learning available online also then you know

available online also then you know which one which consultant to go to or

which one which consultant to go to or then when you go to these fairs you are

then when you go to these fairs you are a lot more better prepared so I think do

a lot more better prepared so I think do that homework this industry requires you

that homework this industry requires you to put your head down and work hard it's

to put your head down and work hard it's a slow moving industry it's the nature

a slow moving industry it's the nature of the business where you have to put

of the business where you have to put that time to figure out the product

that time to figure out the product first don't keep it for later because

first don't keep it for later because that's something that you will have to

that's something that you will have to you will put all your energy behind so

you will put all your energy behind so because you guys are experts in this

because you guys are experts in this where do you think I'll come to each one

where do you think I'll come to each one of you individually where is the

of you individually where is the opportunity today I'll ask you in terms

opportunity today I'll ask you in terms of surj can tell me this kind of beer

of surj can tell me this kind of beer made with this kind of ingredient at X

made with this kind of ingredient at X price point with maybe why story maybe

price point with maybe why story maybe you can tell me

you can tell me tequila made from whatever Agave extrao

tequila made from whatever Agave extrao being sold at 5,000 rupees how to make

being sold at 5,000 rupees how to make that happen you can tell me based on

that happen you can tell me based on what you're seeing in your bar as

what you're seeing in your bar as something where the demand is growing

something where the demand is growing exponentially and abish can tell me who

exponentially and abish can tell me who can build a competitive product to what

can build a competitive product to what is selling best at radico in the least

is selling best at radico in the least tumultuous way as possible but is the

tumultuous way as possible but is the goal of this question to become a

goal of this question to become a billion doll business or is it to build

billion doll business or is it to build something that you're passionate about

something that you're passionate about something that it's profitable in nature

something that it's profitable in nature yeah okay it doesn't have to have the

yeah okay it doesn't have to have the scale of a billion

scale of a billion dollars uh anyways okay got it so we

dollars uh anyways okay got it so we start with take a second to think about

start with take a second to think about it who would like to go first

it who would like to go first idea price point product category so I

idea price point product category so I think one of the best opportunities

think one of the best opportunities right now is if you think about large

right now is if you think about large multinationals the value which is

multinationals the value which is available in the Indian Beer Market I'll

available in the Indian Beer Market I'll only speak about beer right now lies in

only speak about beer right now lies in the category where the Indian consumer

the category where the Indian consumer slowly upgraded from the King Fishers of

slowly upgraded from the King Fishers of the world now to a Budweiser or Hut

the world now to a Budweiser or Hut they've already come to a 20 25% this is

they've already come to a 20 25% this is currently roughly around a 55 to 60

currently roughly around a 55 to 60 million Cas industry that's the price

million Cas industry that's the price point where you actually make money

point where you actually make money proportionate to the investment and

proportionate to the investment and everything so it's it's it delivers

everything so it's it's it delivers better margin if you now can take this

better margin if you now can take this consumers who already here so the

consumers who already here so the consumer iology is that that that

consumer iology is that that that consumer wants something better take it

consumer wants something better take it to a destination product there may be

to a destination product there may be multiple destinations so you can upgrade

multiple destinations so you can upgrade a consumer who's seeking quality is

a consumer who's seeking quality is always a great starting point I think

always a great starting point I think look at price elasticity don't go to

look at price elasticity don't go to 100% markup on a existing large category

100% markup on a existing large category category building is absolutely not

category building is absolutely not possible in so what you're saying is

possible in so what you're saying is take the premiumize consumer who has

take the premiumize consumer who has moved from KF to hinin who is willing to

moved from KF to hinin who is willing to pay couple of hundred bucks for and that

pay couple of hundred bucks for and that consumer is going to be far more willing

consumer is going to be far more willing because he's seeking or she's seeking

because he's seeking or she's seeking this product quality as a driver and and

this product quality as a driver and and they will be more than willing to come

they will be more than willing to come and upgrade so there is a constant uh

and upgrade so there is a constant uh Journey that's that's accumulated to a

Journey that's that's accumulated to a large enough pool now

large enough pool now minaki I know what I'm going to say it's

minaki I know what I'm going to say it's has to be bourbon whiskey uh coming from

has to be bourbon whiskey uh coming from two three things um that I really

two three things um that I really believe in uh India I mean and again

believe in uh India I mean and again coming from the fact that we are talking

coming from the fact that we are talking cocktail consuming cocktail the way

cocktail consuming cocktail the way consumption is growing it is one of the

consumption is growing it is one of the biggest drivers of the way consumption

biggest drivers of the way consumption is happening in India uh

is happening in India uh again Urban centers more so than rural

again Urban centers more so than rural but then again tier 2 as well there are

but then again tier 2 as well there are many many cases and great restaurants

many many cases and great restaurants and bars opening in tier 2 as well and

and bars opening in tier 2 as well and you can see that the major driver of

you can see that the major driver of consumption is through cocktails um why

consumption is through cocktails um why bourbon whiskey specifically for

bourbon whiskey specifically for cocktails I'm coming to that is because

cocktails I'm coming to that is because cocktails were actually created in

cocktails were actually created in America they were their American

America they were their American invention and then and hence because

invention and then and hence because bourbon whiskey is a whiskey that was

bourbon whiskey is a whiskey that was created in America um has not been

created in America um has not been tapped into to as such as a base spirit

tapped into to as such as a base spirit in India as much as it can we have Jim

in India as much as it can we have Jim Beam which is now being made in India

Beam which is now being made in India which is completely sweeping through the

which is completely sweeping through the cocktail Market every bar that you go to

cocktail Market every bar that you go to right now is actually pouring Jim Beam

right now is actually pouring Jim Beam in their old fashioned whiskey stars all

in their old fashioned whiskey stars all of the M Min julips of the world right

of the M Min julips of the world right and what it's doing is that it doesn't

and what it's doing is that it doesn't have an Indian alternative so even if I

have an Indian alternative so even if I want to use the best of Indian whiskies

want to use the best of Indian whiskies most of them actually emulate Scotch

most of them actually emulate Scotch because that is our way of kind of

because that is our way of kind of taking the Scotch whiskey product ction

taking the Scotch whiskey product ction process forward right what the

process forward right what the difference between bourbon and Scotch so

difference between bourbon and Scotch so Scotch biggest is the difference is of

Scotch biggest is the difference is of course Scottish and American but other

course Scottish and American but other than that there's a big production

than that there's a big production difference in fact taste wise also

difference in fact taste wise also there's difference so there it's sweeter

there's difference so there it's sweeter so bourbon whiskey is much sweeter than

so bourbon whiskey is much sweeter than Scotch whiskey primarily because 51% of

Scotch whiskey primarily because 51% of corn is used to make a bourbon whiskey

corn is used to make a bourbon whiskey so hence it's sweeter in taste when you

so hence it's sweeter in taste when you actually do a comparative also the way

actually do a comparative also the way it's finished it's actually finished and

it's finished it's actually finished and there is a little bit of a Char of the

there is a little bit of a Char of the bourbon the CK in which it's made it's

bourbon the CK in which it's made it's actually made in New s so the CK itself

actually made in New s so the CK itself has a little bit of that Woody churny

has a little bit of that Woody churny Burnie flavor which works really well

Burnie flavor which works really well for Indian palette and we feel very very

for Indian palette and we feel very very strongly that so far many have tried

strongly that so far many have tried actually beam Global has launched a

actually beam Global has launched a whiskey which they're seeing is very

whiskey which they're seeing is very much like a bban whiskey it's not to say

much like a bban whiskey it's not to say that the big guys are already not in it

that the big guys are already not in it but I feel an Indian true Indian person

but I feel an Indian true Indian person like Indian brand has not really

like Indian brand has not really ventured there because a whiskey is

ventured there because a whiskey is intimidating a that you don't money

intimidating a that you don't money issues like we if we say that we don't

issues like we if we say that we don't have a capex issue and we don't have an

have a capex issue and we don't have an aging issue I mean I'm I'm assuming all

aging issue I mean I'm I'm assuming all of these things are in place the

of these things are in place the investment is in place does it have to

investment is in place does it have to be aged is Jim Beam aged yes minimum two

be aged is Jim Beam aged yes minimum two years that's what bourbon's claim is you

years that's what bourbon's claim is you in India given that you minimum three

in India given that you minimum three years but but also being a hotter

years but but also being a hotter climate it's as hot as as as the bourbon

climate it's as hot as as as the bourbon but bourbon does it have the GI tag like

but bourbon does it have the GI tag like scotch has a GI te we don't have to call

scotch has a GI te we don't have to call it bourbon whiskey we have to call it an

it bourbon whiskey we have to call it an Indian it's we don't want to call an

Indian it's we don't want to call an Indian whiskey bourbon whiskey that

Indian whiskey bourbon whiskey that defeats the purpose of it you're talking

defeats the purpose of it you're talking that it will be a change in the blend

that it will be a change in the blend it's a flavor like a bourbon rampur we

it's a flavor like a bourbon rampur we are using bourbon CK we using three so

are using bourbon CK we using three so if you do yeah so X bourbon GK will be

if you do yeah so X bourbon GK will be much more refined version of making the

much more refined version of making the same thing we talking about sweeter corn

same thing we talking about sweeter corn we talking about getting into we're

we talking about getting into we're getting into the entire production of it

getting into the entire production of it we're not just finishing the whiskey

we're not just finishing the whiskey with it so and I feel of course pricing

with it so and I feel of course pricing has to be pouring which basically means

has to be pouring which basically means it has to be valuable to me as a bar

it has to be valuable to me as a bar owner what is the number so anything

owner what is the number so anything between 1200 to, 1400 not above that and

between 1200 to, 1400 not above that and approachable to Young interesting people

approachable to Young interesting people are getting into the category you know

are getting into the category you know Fresh So what is happening to the

Fresh So what is happening to the younger ones are that back in the day I

younger ones are that back in the day I think we all got into alcohol with old

think we all got into alcohol with old monk I hate saying the back in the day

monk I hate saying the back in the day world actually but most of us have

world actually but most of us have actually started 40 so but what happens

actually started 40 so but what happens you look it thank you my skin Delhi skin

you look it thank you my skin Delhi skin Delhi skin I bang both are glowing as

Delhi skin I bang both are glowing as well what's going on we will tell you

well what's going on we will tell you later coming back to the price point

later coming back to the price point yeah so anything between 12 and 1400 an

yeah so anything between 12 and 1400 an entry level yeah so I would fully say

entry level yeah so I would fully say there there has to be entry level um a

there there has to be entry level um a lot of the younger immediate after LDA

lot of the younger immediate after LDA legal drinking age actually gets into

legal drinking age actually gets into this category so they either drinking

this category so they either drinking Jin which is at a greater than price

Jin which is at a greater than price slash badi price I mean in that I'm

slash badi price I mean in that I'm trying to think about a rum which is in

trying to think about a rum which is in that that category so you know Makai I

that that category so you know Makai I mean the the coring category that we

mean the the coring category that we talking about so whiskey in that

talking about so whiskey in that category still is owned and run by the

category still is owned and run by the the mnc's that space is because also

the mnc's that space is because also it's very intimidating it's hugely

it's very intimidating it's hugely expensive you know the whole deal it's D

expensive you know the whole deal it's D we just launched our kohu Reserve Ram at

we just launched our kohu Reserve Ram at that price point you know what in

that price point you know what in same so we need to use the whiskey to

same so we need to use the whiskey to make cocktails to get we not talking

make cocktails to get we not talking whiskey consumer I'm not going to it to

whiskey consumer I'm not going to it to Consumer brand called bangalow bangaluru

Consumer brand called bangalow bangaluru and I make a bourbon tasting whiskey at

and I make a bourbon tasting whiskey at 13400 bucks and come to minakshi and say

13400 bucks and come to minakshi and say try this try beam yeah if mine tastes

try this try beam yeah if mine tastes okay or better you'll take it of course

okay or better you'll take it of course I will it will be there's if you get the

I will it will be there's if you get the packaging see it's a great you have to

packaging see it's a great you have to find The Sweet Spot in that mix so it's

find The Sweet Spot in that mix so it's good story good blend you cannot

good story good blend you cannot absolutely not um you know just discount

absolutely not um you know just discount the recipe the process the whole art of

the recipe the process the whole art of it as well because you cannot say I just

it as well because you cannot say I just packaging is such a big part today it it

packaging is such a big part today it it is huge it's huge like how you sell it

is huge it's huge like how you sell it like what are you going to say about it

like what are you going to say about it if you say it's a bourbon like whiskey I

if you say it's a bourbon like whiskey I I'll be like okay like so basically you

I'll be like okay like so basically you emulated a whiskey which is made in us

emulated a whiskey which is made in us but you have to have your own original

but you have to have your own original story somewhere bangaluru sounds like a

story somewhere bangaluru sounds like a nice bring it out of the

nice bring it out of the Hat you get a good because because Mai

Hat you get a good because because Mai from that space right for a product like

from that space right for a product like this you'll need the advocacy coming

this you'll need the advocacy coming from the bartender to replace it in an

from the bartender to replace it in an old fashion right I need to be like

old fashion right I need to be like fully it has to be very and also usually

fully it has to be very and also usually a lot of us which is a lot of us fully

a lot of us which is a lot of us fully back Indian good Indian Brands right so

back Indian good Indian Brands right so if you are making a good Indian brand

if you are making a good Indian brand which is maybe selling or not selling I

which is maybe selling or not selling I will fully list it give it that chance

will fully list it give it that chance after that it sells or does not sell or

after that it sells or does not sell or people that is like the secondary

people that is like the secondary tertiary sale conversation which can

tertiary sale conversation which can happen later but at least the entry

happen later but at least the entry point you will you will have it better

point you will you will have it better if you are an entry also again as a

if you are an entry also again as a Founder right as a co-founder founder

Founder right as a co-founder founder you if you're going out to them and

you if you're going out to them and talking to people you have to sound like

talking to people you have to sound like 100% convinced and behind the brand like

100% convinced and behind the brand like that's important right that's the that's

that's important right that's the that's the meat of it so if you are not like

the meat of it so if you are not like you're like oh I just need to make money

you're like oh I just need to make money I'll be like okay like no no I I will

I'll be like okay like no no I I will feend passion very quickly when my

feend passion very quickly when my bangaluru wh keys out okay if you call

bangaluru wh keys out okay if you call it bangaluru I don't know

how hyper local is essentially what you can say that you we we so or how about

can say that you we we so or how about we call it like a area instead of even

we call it like a area instead of even not I mean I'll tell you what we call it

not I mean I'll tell you what we call it J like we' done it you see if you see

J like we' done it you see if you see rampur we've taken all the Indian names

rampur we've taken all the Indian names to the world and India like rur

to the world and India like rur fantastic your Jessel may now we

fantastic your Jessel may now we launched the first time any Indian

launched the first time any Indian company at a Scotch price Royal Ram B

company at a Scotch price Royal Ram B the brand has really taken off it's one

the brand has really taken off it's one of the largest going to be one of the

of the largest going to be one of the largest it's all IND names I I mean we

largest it's all IND names I I mean we have a menu called dear Deli which was

have a menu called dear Deli which was actually made and which actually got us

actually made and which actually got us to this massive I think Global

to this massive I think Global recognition is because of that menu

recognition is because of that menu because the menu was made out of all the

because the menu was made out of all the places and local spots that us as Delhi

places and local spots that us as Delhi people know and it's not to say

people know and it's not to say everything was named after the tombs and

everything was named after the tombs and the historical places there was a drink

the historical places there was a drink called du special so people who actually

called du special so people who actually know du special are the only people who

know du special are the only people who know like who know du right because

know like who know du right because that's the bus that actually goes around

that's the bus that actually goes around and it's called special and what's a

and it's called special and what's a good way to get Word of Mouth out I

good way to get Word of Mouth out I start a whiskey called bangaluru 14 Buck

start a whiskey called bangaluru 14 Buck meet BB yeah meet your stakeholders so

meet BB yeah meet your stakeholders so retailers your bar owners your partners

retailers your bar owners your partners you have to get your partners the the

you have to get your partners the the the bar Community for this product is a

the bar Community for this product is a very big push so there's a very

very big push so there's a very interesting story the founder of perno R

interesting story the founder of perno R his name was Paul Raa and he used to say

his name was Paul Raa and he used to say he started in the southern town of Mars

he started in the southern town of Mars where he made a product which was called

where he made a product which was called rard in his name so he had a philosophy

rard in his name so he had a philosophy it said make a friend a day so he would

it said make a friend a day so he would take his case of RA go to one bar in Mas

take his case of RA go to one bar in Mas every day and offer a little sampler to

every day and offer a little sampler to every person who was sitting there and

every person who was sitting there and they would sip by the end of the year he

they would sip by the end of the year he was in 360 bars and every person was

was in 360 bars and every person was drinking pastis or the was saying Paul

drinking pastis or the was saying Paul is my friend he makes this product I'm

is my friend he makes this product I'm drinking it and he took over that

drinking it and he took over that business started as simply as that this

business started as simply as that this is possible Indian equivalent Indian

is possible Indian equivalent Indian equivalent to something similar indan

equivalent to something similar indan equivalent to that sort of indian spirit

equivalent to that sort of indian spirit made by an Indian founder and

made by an Indian founder and to Bar definitely is greater than you

to Bar definitely is greater than you guys like you have done the see you

guys like you have done the see you cannot

cannot discount put into Reta and expect it to

discount put into Reta and expect it to fly right

fly right interesting shuch would you like to go

next PR us usually usually what ends up happening is that a Brands come to me

happening is that a Brands come to me and they like okay we have this product

and they like okay we have this product we don't know what to do with it please

we don't know what to do with it please help us out is what I end up usually

help us out is what I end up usually writing strategies for a lot of brands

writing strategies for a lot of brands uh but personally um I think

uh but personally um I think two one is rum I I believe strongly Ram

two one is rum I I believe strongly Ram is a category I think India has has

is a category I think India has has grown up on old Monk and post old monk

grown up on old Monk and post old monk there's not been too much disruption uh

there's not been too much disruption uh in the rum Market globally uh you have

in the rum Market globally uh you have zakapa and such Brands which are doing

zakapa and such Brands which are doing extremely well and all bartenders

extremely well and all bartenders globally are working with rum what was

globally are working with rum what was Jin a few years back is now RAM and

Jin a few years back is now RAM and Tequila so I believe um a great flavored

Tequila so I believe um a great flavored rum at a premium price at a semi premium

rum at a premium price at a semi premium price point will what is semi- premium

price point will what is semi- premium 1,200 same pricing onwards not an old

1,200 same pricing onwards not an old mon agree with you 12200 onwards uh I

mon agree with you 12200 onwards uh I believe in that as a flavored drum

believe in that as a flavored drum flavored as in you can have different

flavored as in you can have different expressions of it you can have a spice

expressions of it you can have a spice rum I'm actually I love I love

rum I'm actually I love I love Captain so good zakapa is one of my

Captain so good zakapa is one of my favorite uh rums but there not too many

favorite uh rums but there not too many options here recently there have been

options here recently there have been some Brands coming out of maai is there

some Brands coming out of maai is there satara is there and now you're launching

satara is there and now you're launching Kami kamikara I not tried kamikara but

Kami kamikara I not tried kamikara but I'm saying Ram as a so there's

I'm saying Ram as a so there's interesting thing on you know rum as a

interesting thing on you know rum as a category the consumer so there is two

category the consumer so there is two things whiskey has laddering in terms of

things whiskey has laddering in terms of price so whiskey consumer starts at say

price so whiskey consumer starts at say the Imperial blue level and then goes to

the Imperial blue level and then goes to Royal stack blender sprad 100 Pipers

Royal stack blender sprad 100 Pipers Shivers as the person grows in life so

Shivers as the person grows in life so whole storytelling is about like you see

whole storytelling is about like you see all the campaigns are all it's your life

all the campaigns are all it's your life make it large

make it large OB I don't know what but

OB I don't know what but it's it's all about God you didn't

it's it's all about God you didn't take I of course so but in rum rum sells

take I of course so but in rum rum sells a lot in the East West Bengal um you

a lot in the East West Bengal um you know orisas the so rum has a is is is a

know orisas the so rum has a is is is a product where the consumer doesn't even

product where the consumer doesn't even relate to this image so that it's not

relate to this image so that it's not for status Seekers so it's a very

for status Seekers so it's a very different psychological product categ

different psychological product categ you know you would find a great musician

you know you would find a great musician drink Ram in Goa in India it's almost

drink Ram in Goa in India it's almost equivalent to how Jack Daniels has a

equivalent to how Jack Daniels has a subcultural kind of a Vibe throughout

subcultural kind of a Vibe throughout America does that commun it's very

America does that commun it's very Community strong strong personality not

Community strong strong personality not too social but believes so you can

too social but believes so you can upgrade rum but you need to do it with a

upgrade rum but you need to do it with a great product story I think you need to

great product story I think you need to upgrade the consumer who's very

upgrade the consumer who's very different from a whiskey consumer the

different from a whiskey consumer the whiskey guys what is old Monk Is it's

whiskey guys what is old Monk Is it's rum it's R yeah I read some research

rum it's R yeah I read some research around whoever attempted rum in India

around whoever attempted rum in India could not beat old monk is that true I

could not beat old monk is that true I think celebration rum which is of di Jo

think celebration rum which is of di Jo now out sells old monong quite a bit

now out sells old monong quite a bit bakadi dropped their price so much to

bakadi dropped their price so much to compete with old no but bakadi B is gold

compete with old no but bakadi B is gold and

and white is like you have to get up the

white is like you have to get up the price ladder like say we had launched a

price ladder like say we had launched a 1965 rum so like Army defense is one of

1965 rum so like Army defense is one of the largest market we are the highest

the largest market we are the highest pric rum we're selling higher than old

pric rum we're selling higher than old Mo the numbers we the largest selling

Mo the numbers we the largest selling rum so it depends on the pricing and

rum so it depends on the pricing and product and premiumization because there

product and premiumization because there most important a huge population of in

most important a huge population of in the country that drinks rum whose

the country that drinks rum whose disposable income is going to keep

disposable income is going to keep increasing I also feel that that's not a

increasing I also feel that that's not a category play like rum I don't think

category play like rum I don't think anybody's drinking rum for it being rum

anybody's drinking rum for it being rum yeah I just think they're just drinking

yeah I just think they're just drinking it because it's a spirit which is super

it because it's a spirit which is super easily available and it's it's like

easily available and it's it's like there is no it's never had it's never

there is no it's never had it's never had like a Jin has had a moment like

had like a Jin has had a moment like like I'll tell you I believe you know

like I'll tell you I believe you know Brandy is 18 to 19% of the market it's

Brandy is 18 to 19% of the market it's is only 11% Brandy is 19% yeah why is

is only 11% Brandy is 19% yeah why is that see I think Brandy

that see I think Brandy 98% of the Brandy sells in South so IED

98% of the Brandy sells in South so IED you have to give us one yeah you know I

you have to give us one yeah you know I researched it because we have a morphus

researched it because we have a morphus so that is the super premium Brandy and

so that is the super premium Brandy and we have 58% market share there is uh

we have 58% market share there is uh Brandy what I realized is South in South

Brandy what I realized is South in South people are very

people are very religious so if you see pondi and Kerala

religious so if you see pondi and Kerala are two states plus Tamil Nadu so one is

are two states plus Tamil Nadu so one is pondy at the

pondy at the French uh connection and French are into

French uh connection and French are into Brandy second if you uh see all the

Brandy second if you uh see all the shops liquor shops in the South earlier

shops liquor shops in the South earlier like Kerala was called doctors uh this

like Kerala was called doctors uh this um each shop like the Brandy was called

um each shop like the Brandy was called doctor's Brandy right so people used to

doctor's Brandy right so people used to think think that they'll drink because

think think that they'll drink because of Health purpose religious purpose

of Health purpose religious purpose doctor K like in North India if you see

doctor K like in North India if you see when when we were kids when it was very

when when we were kids when it was very cold our mothers used to like you know

cold our mothers used to like you know rub Brandy on our hand so I think it's

rub Brandy on our hand so I think it's just some kind of that else South India

just some kind of that else South India it's like hot Etc but the Brandy Market

it's like hot Etc but the Brandy Market there is huge

there is huge okay Tamil Nadu 85% of the market is

okay Tamil Nadu 85% of the market is Brandy yeah so the numbers Tamil Nadu

Brandy yeah so the numbers Tamil Nadu you have to you have to distill in the

you have to you have to distill in the state in order to sell that's that's and

state in order to sell that's that's and you can't have you imported Stu or you

you can't have you imported Stu or you have to you have to distill in the state

have to you have to distill in the state sell over there hard Market the numbers

sell over there hard Market the numbers we had was the market is 63% whiskey 22%

we had was the market is 63% whiskey 22% Brandy 12% drum

Brandy 12% drum 8% vka no four 4% is 4 4% vodka Jin

8% vka no four 4% is 4 4% vodka Jin it'll be all of all of together 96%

it'll be all of all of together 96% Brown yeah oh my God is there a switch

Brown yeah oh my God is there a switch happening between brown Spirit to White

happening between brown Spirit to White in India yes vka has been the largest

in India yes vka has been the largest growing category in The Last 5 Years

growing category in The Last 5 Years about 2% or whatever vka vka and Jin

about 2% or whatever vka vka and Jin would be about 4% so vodka now would be

would be about 4% so vodka now would be about three three and a half still it's

about three three and a half still it's a it's smaller compar from but imagine

a it's smaller compar from but imagine globally 25% is vodka yeah but vodka and

globally 25% is vodka yeah but vodka and the white are getting it's coming I I

the white are getting it's coming I I feel it's a matter of it it it'll grow

feel it's a matter of it it it'll grow it'll eat it'll eat into the whiskey

it'll eat it'll eat into the whiskey market like I'm I'm banking on that smof

market like I'm I'm banking on that smof 100 years ago was marketed as white

100 years ago was marketed as white whiskey and that's how they the campaign

whiskey and that's how they the campaign was that lead you

was that lead you be drink and drive with because

be drink and drive with because it in vka 80% of the market now has

it in vka 80% of the market now has become flavored watka yeah and that's I

become flavored watka yeah and that's I think so where we've got like launched

think so where we've got like launched about Apple vka is very tasty no body is

about Apple vka is very tasty no body is taken off like crazy when we did

taken off like crazy when we did research everybody kept reiterating

research everybody kept reiterating Flavor Flavor Flavor in beer in vodka in

Flavor Flavor Flavor in beer in vodka in Jin in rum and brand everything why is

Jin in rum and brand everything why is that switch to flavor happening would

that switch to flavor happening would you want to have like a flavored whiskey

you want to have like a flavored whiskey Tom I'll tell you say let's take the

Tom I'll tell you say let's take the white Spirits mostly it's prevalent in

white Spirits mostly it's prevalent in white Spirits not in the whiskey whiskey

white Spirits not in the whiskey whiskey you only have fire and honey and all

you only have fire and honey and all those but that is too small in vodka if

those but that is too small in vodka if you see who are your consumers is the

you see who are your consumers is the younger generation and women now when

younger generation and women now when you see when a youngster is getting into

you see when a youngster is getting into the drinking age

the drinking age bracket alcohol by choice is bitter a

bracket alcohol by choice is bitter a Pepsi or a Coke would taste much uh

Pepsi or a Coke would taste much uh better so they need a sweetish

better so they need a sweetish flavor so they they tend to get for the

flavor so they they tend to get for the flavored uh this thing and then it's

flavored uh this thing and then it's easier to drink like the flavor Just Add

easier to drink like the flavor Just Add Water yeah I think there's there's also

Water yeah I think there's there's also another it does not smell it does not

another it does not smell it does not smell which is yeah so what happen it's

smell which is yeah so what happen it's like day drinking the exactly the Indian

like day drinking the exactly the Indian consumer one of the craziest you would

consumer one of the craziest you would assume that smof when they came to India

assume that smof when they came to India in 2007 and they were just doing parties

in 2007 and they were just doing parties and they realized it's not taking off

and they realized it's not taking off but vodka in in terms of percentage of

but vodka in in terms of percentage of you know market share to other Spirits

you know market share to other Spirits probably highest in the most

probably highest in the most conservative State like Kashmir rajastan

conservative State like Kashmir rajastan and then you look at it you realize the

and then you look at it you realize the Nuance where it's being drunk a lot by

Nuance where it's being drunk a lot by shopkeepers people who are working

shopkeepers people who are working during the day who have a Tabo to mask

during the day who have a Tabo to mask their smell so you know you would find

their smell so you know you would find that uh it's it's like some Fanta bottle

that uh it's it's like some Fanta bottle dying in that SAR shop and somebody's

dying in that SAR shop and somebody's sipping on it through the day he

sipping on it through the day he probably drinking

probably drinking some flavored flavored product so the

some flavored flavored product so the cool kids moved to Jin because there was

cool kids moved to Jin because there was a

a Botanical and the mes movical play what

Botanical and the mes movical play what does that mean see that is the herbs

does that mean see that is the herbs like you the infusions like how like I

like you the infusions like how like I said Jin is nothing but a vodka with

said Jin is nothing but a vodka with flavor but the flavors were stuff like

flavor but the flavors were stuff like you have to have Juniper then you would

you have to have Juniper then you would have cinnamon J is the prime herb for

have cinnamon J is the prime herb for any gin call it but then you have addons

any gin call it but then you have addons like you can have a gin of 11 Botanicals

like you can have a gin of 11 Botanicals 18

18 Botanical have green apple gin right you

Botanical have green apple gin right you won't have a green apple gin but you

won't have a green apple gin but you have a green apple vodka which has a

have a green apple vodka which has a bigger Market size why fruit vodka

bigger Market size why fruit vodka flower

flower Jin why why why is the flavor that you

Jin why why why is the flavor that you choose to add to vodka a fruit whereas

choose to add to vodka a fruit whereas it can be anything cinnamon it can be

it can be anything cinnamon it can be coffee also but the most popular like we

coffee also but the most popular like we started the flavor uh uh Trend in India

started the flavor uh uh Trend in India so green apple is the most famous then

so green apple is the most famous then is orange and then is cranber but it has

is orange and then is cranber but it has to be a Masia flavor yeah green apple is

to be a Masia flavor yeah green apple is the you can't you can't have a

the you can't you can't have a nutmeg uh you can't have a nutmeg vodka

nutmeg uh you can't have a nutmeg vodka but you'll have a nutmeg infused gin

but you'll have a nutmeg infused gin like he's talking about matcha beer yeah

like he's talking about matcha beer yeah that's as nuanced as nuanced gets right

that's as nuanced as nuanced gets right but but that'll be part of his 25% share

but but that'll be part of his 25% share it's a so it's it's it's a part of like

it's a so it's it's it's a part of like a portfolio where you also have a small

a portfolio where you also have a small consumer so there's this whole consumer

consumer so there's this whole consumer who also relates to almost like

who also relates to almost like everything that's very high quality and

everything that's very high quality and that consumer is see is on a completely

that consumer is see is on a completely different Journey you can have a cafe R

different Journey you can have a cafe R yeah which will be very this thing but

yeah which will be very this thing but for me for his brand these drops build

for me for his brand these drops build loyalty to the brand to the core

loyalty to the brand to the core consumer now I like oh this guy's

consumer now I like oh this guy's actually played around with matcha I

actually played around with matcha I must drink his other products I might

must drink his other products I might not be a regular consumer of the matcha

not be a regular consumer of the matcha product but now in my head his

product but now in my head his positioning my positioning has become so

positioning my positioning has become so we have zero marketing cost because we

we have zero marketing cost because we keep doing products and every product

keep doing products and every product creates a little bit of its own buzz and

creates a little bit of its own buzz and market and then it's like your product

market and then it's like your product mix you want to have like your base

mix you want to have like your base playing you're playing at that level and

playing you're playing at that level and then you put one Coho diamond in the

then you put one Coho diamond in the middle and the COO Diamond gets you the

middle and the COO Diamond gets you the eyeballs and that and your actual base

eyeballs and that and your actual base level will actually benefit from it

level will actually benefit from it because the main brand might or might

because the main brand might or might not s might not are becoming smaller

not s might not are becoming smaller Juniper bombs Cricket they aged a gin

Juniper bombs Cricket they aged a gin with used cricket bats which they Source

with used cricket bats which they Source from all over the country yeah yeah okay

from all over the country yeah yeah okay so you said go after the premiumize

so you said go after the premiumize audience which has upgraded from KF to a

audience which has upgraded from KF to a Heineken and hit them at that price

Heineken and hit them at that price point you said build something which is

point you said build something which is India's bourbon

India's bourbon at answer to Bourbon yeah at 1200 to,

at answer to Bourbon yeah at 1200 to, 1400 rupees a bottle I said

1400 rupees a bottle I said Bangalore you said the story The Design

Bangalore you said the story The Design the packaging will have a big part to

the packaging will have a big part to play and a good go-to Market strategy is

play and a good go-to Market strategy is physically stepping out meeting bar

physically stepping out meeting bar owners consumers converting them

owners consumers converting them oneon-one and hoping for Word of Mouth

oneon-one and hoping for Word of Mouth you said Brandy I said ram ram ram and

you said Brandy I said ram ram ram and tunix and rtds radi to drink beverages

tunix and rtds radi to drink beverages at that's about five to seven years from

at that's about five to seven years from now but I I see that picking up why

now but I I see that picking up why don't I think space is going to be a

don't I think space is going to be a constraint people will not have too many

constraint people will not have too many bars they won't have space in their

bars they won't have space in their houses and they will not have space to

houses and they will not have space to build a bar they would not have the

build a bar they would not have the energy to buy a mixer have ice order

energy to buy a mixer have ice order they would want the way they have a beer

they would want the way they have a beer they'll be ready to drink beverages

they'll be ready to drink beverages which will be there in the fridge

which will be there in the fridge they'll just come back from work they'll

they'll just come back from work they'll either have an option of a great beer or

either have an option of a great beer or something which is premixed open it

something which is premixed open it drink it and go and chuch you also said

drink it and go and chuch you also said price point same as

price point same as that the premium to an old monk the

that the premium to an old monk the first Stepping Stone from an old monk at

first Stepping Stone from an old monk at that price point your

that price point your turn they all suggested what should be

turn they all suggested what should be built which category price point what

built which category price point what kind of alcohol for somebody new

kind of alcohol for somebody new starting to build so if it is a matter

starting to build so if it is a matter of selling you should create something

of selling you should create something Innovative mhm there are lot of

Innovative mhm there are lot of opportunities which I'll just I won't go

opportunities which I'll just I won't go on specific because we are going to get

on specific because we are going to get into that what are you getting into next

into that what are you getting into next answer I'll tell you but question in a

answer I'll tell you but question in a different right now A friend told about

different right now A friend told about ra what is it it is French origin yeah

ra what is it it is French origin yeah there is a lot of Heritage there is a

there is a lot of Heritage there is a lot of strength on the indianess we have

lot of strength on the indianess we have to see what India 100 years back offered

to see what India 100 years back offered we have to get into the roots of India

we have to get into the roots of India yeah we have to see you told me this

yeah we have to see you told me this already at your house we so I've been

already at your house we so I've been working for four years on that we have

working for four years on that we have to get something which no one has seen

to get something which no one has seen absolutely like if you see all my brand

absolutely like if you see all my brand history starting from a rampur royal

history starting from a rampur royal ranor Jess May everything is Indian so

ranor Jess May everything is Indian so here also the Indian ethnic things there

here also the Indian ethnic things there is so much of scope even for India and

is so much of scope even for India and that you can price it higher so the

that you can price it higher so the minute you price it higher your margins

minute you price it higher your margins are there for any

are there for any newcomer uh you have to your uh gross

newcomer uh you have to your uh gross profit has to be high it has to be 70 to

profit has to be high it has to be 70 to 80% else you'll fail if you try to

80% else you'll fail if you try to compete with the masses big boys will

compete with the masses big boys will take you over yeah so

take you over yeah so the you cannot compete with them on

the you cannot compete with them on their muscle P I've competed I competed

their muscle P I've competed I competed but that was a different story but for a

but that was a different story but for a young entrepreneur your Innovation and

young entrepreneur your Innovation and price point and the margins has to be

price point and the margins has to be attracted second would be don't don't

attracted second would be don't don't dump just look at the taries so one is I

dump just look at the taries so one is I will say ethnic flavors Ram I agree with

will say ethnic flavors Ram I agree with her which we are also venturing we are

her which we are also venturing we are venturing into a $50 Ram coinu Reserve

venturing into a $50 Ram coinu Reserve first time it is a small small batch

first time it is a small small batch distillation the it's made out of can

distillation the it's made out of can juice from North India only in the

juice from North India only in the winter season then matured in American

winter season then matured in American bourbon cast then uh kyak EXO cast then

bourbon cast then uh kyak EXO cast then vermo so it took us four years to create

vermo so it took us four years to create that so it's a different Innovation so I

that so it's a different Innovation so I think Ram there iscope plus I think uh

think Ram there iscope plus I think uh the

the ethnic the Indian story that too many Li

ethnic the Indian story that too many Li which was here which can take the right

which was here which can take the right take the world and India but the price

take the world and India but the price point should be high so the margins are

point should be high so the margins are there makes sense so the Heritage lure

there makes sense so the Heritage lure part has another Nuance to it which if

part has another Nuance to it which if you can even look at say um mahua being

you can even look at say um mahua being done by certain tribal communities you

done by certain tribal communities you travel to the Northeast you have a lot

travel to the Northeast you have a lot of wild rice ferment still being done in

of wild rice ferment still being done in Manipur with indigenous varieties very

Manipur with indigenous varieties very similar to what the Koreans do with

similar to what the Koreans do with maguli and with the some like similar to

maguli and with the some like similar to the nigori S too so there's so much to

the nigori S too so there's so much to do but you have to be little bit of like

do but you have to be little bit of like you know research and find a lot of

you know research and find a lot of there is also lot of ingredients which

there is also lot of ingredients which are very unique to India and that's your

are very unique to India and that's your very strong mode if you can find the

very strong mode if you can find the indigenous varieties and then go local

indigenous varieties and then go local local local local think Global act local

local local local think Global act local like what he earlier said like for me 28

like what he earlier said like for me 28 states are 28 different countries if you

states are 28 different countries if you go to a Kerala your marketing strategy

go to a Kerala your marketing strategy has to be different Karnataka it has to

has to be different Karnataka it has to be different Punjab it has to be

be different Punjab it has to be different

different you have to go on the regional festivals

you have to go on the regional festivals and don't make a plan for 30 countries

and don't make a plan for 30 countries conquer one at a time just one work and

conquer one at a time just one work and work with smaller like even if you're

work with smaller like even if you're working with the bar Community work with

working with the bar Community work with lesser amount of bars work with the best

lesser amount of bars work with the best bars but work with them very closely

bars but work with them very closely versus just going and distributing to

versus just going and distributing to all the bars in the country it depends

all the bars in the country it depends on point would be that the Manpower has

on point would be that the Manpower has to talk

to talk about who know

about who know lior think think we are like PS apart

lior think think we are like PS apart the way we think but I think in her

the way we think but I think in her industry bar I think is one of the most

industry bar I think is one of the most virgin opportunities in India we have

virgin opportunities in India we have not started yeah if someone can click it

not started yeah if someone can click it click it like if you see

click it like if you see namos what their revenue and Etc is it's

namos what their revenue and Etc is it's up it's unreal they would make it 250es

up it's unreal they would make it 250es 400 they sold profit only in wow namos

400 they sold profit only in wow namos the zumas I think India has just started

the zumas I think India has just started if someone can create a name where you

if someone can create a name where you can go I think there's a huge

can go I think there's a huge opportunity that people are ready to pay

opportunity that people are ready to pay money

one thing after we have decided what to

thing after we have decided what to build the next logical question is

build the next logical question is distribution uh she spoke about going to

distribution uh she spoke about going to bars and selling by giving them taste of

bars and selling by giving them taste of talking to them

talking to them individually what are the ideas for a

individually what are the ideas for a young person starting off in

young person starting off in distribution how does one get

it did I go yeah see like I'll I'll talk from the global context and then I'll

from the global context and then I'll come to the Indian context like globally

come to the Indian context like globally I wanted to make like what we have done

I wanted to make like what we have done in rampur

in rampur Jessel so we export to 100 countries now

Jessel so we export to 100 countries now it's always better to see and never

it's always better to see and never reinvent the wheel so we've been country

reinvent the wheel so we've been country partners with enj Gallow they have been

partners with enj Gallow they have been the largest uh wineries in California

the largest uh wineries in California and the world them uh and uh what I saw

and the world them uh and uh what I saw about the distribution model that they

about the distribution model that they have the best Distributors around the

have the best Distributors around the globe even if they have to pay extra but

globe even if they have to pay extra but they have the distribution guys who are

they have the distribution guys who are passionate so globally we also followed

passionate so globally we also followed the same philosophy where we had

the same philosophy where we had Distributors so we didn't have to invest

Distributors so we didn't have to invest in Manpower in a country and get to the

in Manpower in a country and get to the nuances maybe you pay extra but you have

nuances maybe you pay extra but you have the right guy who can sell for you so

the right guy who can sell for you so that was a good and an easier model but

that was a good and an easier model but can you do that only at scale or even if

can you do that only at scale or even if you're really small when small I started

you're really small when small I started with zero like in rampur but like the

with zero like in rampur but like the guy suppose my us distributor he left a

guy suppose my us distributor he left a job with one of the largest uh uh

job with one of the largest uh uh companies in America Distribution

companies in America Distribution Company and wanted to take India to the

Company and wanted to take India to the world so started with negligible volume

world so started with negligible volume now he's like minting money M and uh in

now he's like minting money M and uh in last seven years what he's done is

last seven years what he's done is fantastic same thing in Ghana same thing

fantastic same thing in Ghana same thing in Nigeria so a lot of places we have

in Nigeria so a lot of places we have done that Singapore a lot of places so

done that Singapore a lot of places so India I feel distribution is the most

India I feel distribution is the most expensive so depending on the state if

expensive so depending on the state if you get the right distribution partner

you get the right distribution partner you get the right social and you address

you get the right social and you address the in a in a state suppose if you are

the in a in a state suppose if you are there you address the 10 indest bar so

there you address the 10 indest bar so the minute you are there other bars will

the minute you are there other bars will copy you they'll say that if you give

copy you they'll say that if you give like if you have an entry to one on

like if you have an entry to one on promise like say a side car in Delhi if

promise like say a side car in Delhi if anyone knows that okay if in site car

anyone knows that okay if in site car your brand is there it is accepted

your brand is there it is accepted automatically so I think you have to

automatically so I think you have to catch the overall there do liquor Brands

catch the overall there do liquor Brands give you free bees to display the

give you free bees to display the alcohol yeah absolutely I mean they give

alcohol yeah absolutely I mean they give you not just for display they give you

you not just for display they give you for Activation they give you for for

for Activation they give you for for they they actually very very important

they they actually very very important partners for you so like we are part of

partners for you so like we are part of the same ecosystem right if I don't buy

the same ecosystem right if I don't buy the Rand and sell it further then we are

the Rand and sell it further then we are nobody's benefiting from it so I have to

nobody's benefiting from it so I have to work together like almost like a

work together like almost like a partnership uh they do end up taking uh

partnership uh they do end up taking uh shelf space share of throat which

shelf space share of throat which basically means that how much are you

basically means that how much are you pouring which are the which are say for

pouring which are the which are say for example I have a menu of 20 cocktails

example I have a menu of 20 cocktails out of which if I'm getting a majority

out of which if I'm getting a majority of say a tie up money it's called a tie

of say a tie up money it's called a tie up money which basically means if I'm

up money which basically means if I'm working with a diu or a perno or a

working with a diu or a perno or a bakari or even a radico I will be then

bakari or even a radico I will be then prioritizing their brand over other

prioritizing their brand over other brands to actually make cocktails with

brands to actually make cocktails with which basically immediately turns into

which basically immediately turns into volumes for them but it also gives them

volumes for them but it also gives them visibility it also gives them activation

visibility it also gives them activation points touch points consumer feedback a

points touch points consumer feedback a lot of things happen so it's a tool so

lot of things happen so it's a tool so menu is a tool for you so if I start my

menu is a tool for you so if I start my Bengaluru uh bourbon company and sell it

Bengaluru uh bourbon company and sell it for 1,400 bucks and come to you would

for 1,400 bucks and come to you would you put me on your shelf because already

you put me on your shelf because already have a deal with your partners I will

have a deal with your partners I will put you on the Shelf I will not

put you on the Shelf I will not immediately start pouring your your

immediately start pouring your your brand pouring and and putting it on

brand pouring and and putting it on shelf are two different things I have

shelf are two different things I have almost to the tune of 350 listed uh

almost to the tune of 350 listed uh available visible brands in the menu so

available visible brands in the menu so let's say for example you're selling a

let's say for example you're selling a Dio brand what do they give you exactly

Dio brand what do they give you exactly so they give me multiple see they they

so they give me multiple see they they support me for New Year and say

support me for New Year and say Christmas activation they support me for

Christmas activation they support me for so next month we are supporting an

so next month we are supporting an entire month of pride month at the bar

entire month of pride month at the bar so we celebrate it every year uh for

so we celebrate it every year uh for that I need to make a special menu with

that I need to make a special menu with that menu I need to make special drinks

that menu I need to make special drinks which are you know uh which are actually

which are you know uh which are actually talking to the audience that I want

talking to the audience that I want right at the bar I'm also doing like

right at the bar I'm also doing like some an event which is a talking

some an event which is a talking conversation sort of sit down which we

conversation sort of sit down which we do every year then we end it with a big

do every year then we end it with a big party with a big band I need money for

party with a big band I need money for all of these things if I bring like a

all of these things if I bring like a band band takes money if I bring a

band band takes money if I bring a photographer photographer will take

photographer photographer will take money so I'm taking money for this a

money so I'm taking money for this a brand I'm not mentioning whichever brand

brand I'm not mentioning whichever brand it is then I take money from them and

it is then I take money from them and then for full month I'm actually giving

then for full month I'm actually giving them the menu exclusivity for that

them the menu exclusivity for that special month so you kind of it works

special month so you kind of it works really well for your beverage cost point

really well for your beverage cost point of view so you actually can make money

of view so you actually can make money by selling the brands and then the

by selling the brands and then the brands are also happy because they're

brands are also happy because they're getting multiple visibility points are

getting multiple visibility points are you demographically seeing any changes

you demographically seeing any changes in liquor consumption traditionally men

in liquor consumption traditionally men have been the one to buy and consume

have been the one to buy and consume liquor I don't know about consumption

liquor I don't know about consumption because buying number is there are you

because buying number is there are you seeing more women consume alcohol is the

seeing more women consume alcohol is the age at which somebody first consumes

age at which somebody first consumes changing uh there is research to show

changing uh there is research to show that genz in America is consuming lesser

that genz in America is consuming lesser alcohol than

alcohol than Millennials uh this problem is so Stark

Millennials uh this problem is so Stark in countries like Japan where young

in countries like Japan where young people are not

people are not drinking that the Japanese government is

drinking that the Japanese government is starting sake

starting sake festivals different ways to encourage

festivals different ways to encourage young people to drink same problem in

young people to drink same problem in India not at all I think women are

India not at all I think women are definitely drinking more there is no

definitely drinking more there is no doubt about that like that is a big plus

doubt about that like that is a big plus for us for the growth also so because U

for us for the growth also so because U the fact that there are many many women

the fact that there are many many women joining into the drinking occasions

joining into the drinking occasions multiple Market is going because of the

multiple Market is going because of the women also also so women and also LDA

women also also so women and also LDA plus so we talking always whenever we

plus so we talking always whenever we talk about legal drinking agent plus

talk about legal drinking agent plus they are also drinking better places

they are also drinking better places better quality premiumization all of

better quality premiumization all of those things right so that is definitely

those things right so that is definitely happening uh and they are actually

happening uh and they are actually adding a huge huge value to to the

adding a huge huge value to to the entire night also I think the the the

entire night also I think the the the shopping experience overall especially

shopping experience overall especially in Delhi retail Bombay

in Delhi retail Bombay retail that is one of the what he said

retail that is one of the what he said is one of the most important we've been

is one of the most important we've been advocating as radico and as the liquor

advocating as radico and as the liquor industry that earlier if you would have

industry that earlier if you would have gone into any shop in a Arana Mumbai

gone into any shop in a Arana Mumbai women can't go and Shop they'll be

women can't go and Shop they'll be looked down you know they'll not feel

looked down you know they'll not feel safe but today if you see the shopping

safe but today if you see the shopping experience whether it's Bangalore

experience whether it's Bangalore whether it is G you have 20,000 ft it's

whether it is G you have 20,000 ft it's become very nice so women are

become very nice so women are comfortable to go and pick up their

comfortable to go and pick up their bottle second even when you go for a

bottle second even when you go for a party earlier like you know they used to

party earlier like you know they used to hide their glass but today it's like

hide their glass but today it's like normal for the new generation in fact a

normal for the new generation in fact a women not drinking what it will feel

women not drinking what it will feel that why is she not

that why is she not having

having premiumization before before we get into

premiumization before before we get into that subject properly because it seems

that subject properly because it seems to be working across the category any

to be working across the category any other distribution hacks I think one I

other distribution hacks I think one I wanted to mention which um I think if

wanted to mention which um I think if you are a absolute zero to one person

you are a absolute zero to one person starting out I would say once you

starting out I would say once you identified what product you are doing

identified what product you are doing just take a few bottles and in there are

just take a few bottles and in there are three layers to distribution what you

three layers to distribution what you manufacture is called as the primary

manufacture is called as the primary then you what your distributor supplies

then you what your distributor supplies to the market to say Mini's bar is

to the market to say Mini's bar is called secondary and what minakshi sells

called secondary and what minakshi sells from her bar is called tertiary I would

from her bar is called tertiary I would suggest first thing that you do once you

suggest first thing that you do once you have the product go Ulta don't go the

have the product go Ulta don't go the route that the big companies do where

route that the big companies do where you go do primary you have established

you go do primary you have established Distributors you go to 100 bars go to 25

Distributors you go to 100 bars go to 25 30 wine shops take your product sample

30 wine shops take your product sample talk to the owner you already built

talk to the owner you already built enough Awareness on your brand on and

enough Awareness on your brand on and people know that you are doing so that

people know that you are doing so that when you go to a distributor you know

when you go to a distributor you know that if you sell 100 200 cases it's

that if you sell 100 200 cases it's going to go to those mini bars the

going to go to those mini bars the Distributors is going to be far more

Distributors is going to be far more comfortable taking on your product if

comfortable taking on your product if you've already done that little leg work

you've already done that little leg work so I think that's one of the simplest

so I think that's one of the simplest things that I think anyone like you said

things that I think anyone like you said going from zero to one the hardest thing

going from zero to one the hardest thing for a new be is to find a distributor

for a new be is to find a distributor it's not as easy as you think it is a

it's not as easy as you think it is a lot of people don't want to take your

lot of people don't want to take your brand yeah you have to show them show

brand yeah you have to show them show them basum they will be

like minaki vouches for a brand listing in a bar you know any a

listing in a bar you know any a depletion is the biggest problem you'll

depletion is the biggest problem you'll get listing at Mini's bar but the bottle

get listing at Mini's bar but the bottle will be lying how do you deplete

will be lying how do you deplete it so it has to be combination of and

it so it has to be combination of and secondly how do you get it listed on the

secondly how do you get it listed on the menu it's at the bar but when I open the

menu it's at the bar but when I open the menu it's not there I have to convince

menu it's not there I have to convince minaki that I will spend money I will

minaki that I will spend money I will give you a band I'll give you a DJ but

give you a band I'll give you a DJ but please get my put my alcohol inside one

please get my put my alcohol inside one of your

of your cocktails what if you give minaki the

cocktails what if you give minaki the alcohol and say pay me after yourself

alcohol and say pay me after yourself that doesn't matter that would't work in

that doesn't matter that would't work in in the end tery has to happen as it is

in the end tery has to happen as it is as it is the credit period is high so

as it is the credit period is high so for a newcomer consumer has to pick it

for a newcomer consumer has to pick it up like if consumer is not picking it up

up like if consumer is not picking it up then there is or she puts inside a

then there is or she puts inside a cocktail which I Market which gets sold

cocktail which I Market which gets sold further my alcohol is getting depleted

further my alcohol is getting depleted so a bartender a route very popular on

so a bartender a route very popular on bartenders and counter salesman we call

bartenders and counter salesman we call them

them CSM so there is a guy who's a manager at

CSM so there is a guy who's a manager at a say a madula in Bangalore and that guy

a say a madula in Bangalore and that guy knows everything about what brand sells

knows everything about what brand sells he any customer who is a regular who

he any customer who is a regular who will go to that wine shop or to a duers

will go to that wine shop or to a duers or whatever will ask the person and

or whatever will ask the person and he'll say this is new and it's doing

he'll say this is new and it's doing well I have tried it so create that

well I have tried it so create that recommendation from people who are

recommendation from people who are already in the business and people trust

already in the business and people trust you don't have trust but the person who

you don't have trust but the person who standing there day in day out for years

standing there day in day out for years has a far more trust and he will

has a far more trust and he will recommend your product only if that

recommend your product only if that person likes

person likes so make that effort first so bartenders

so make that effort first so bartenders are bartenders everyone bartenders every

are bartenders everyone bartenders every brand wants them Plus for example in the

brand wants them Plus for example in the in the beer industry when I was running

in the beer industry when I was running Jade uh I remember this so clearly uh

Jade uh I remember this so clearly uh people would pay the bartender outside

people would pay the bartender outside of their job you return caps to me I'll

of their job you return caps to me I'll give I'll give you 20 rupees a cap for

give I'll give you 20 rupees a cap for depletion to make my distributor happy

depletion to make my distributor happy so he sells my product so I'm burning

so he sells my product so I'm burning money so that the bartenders are pushing

money so that the bartenders are pushing my beer in the restaurant to customers

my beer in the restaurant to customers so they have to have you have to have

so they have to have you have to have these innovative ways of marketing how

these innovative ways of marketing how to deplete your product in a restaurant

to deplete your product in a restaurant so I think at every level your

so I think at every level your intervention will change yeah so when

intervention will change yeah so when the founder is talking then you should

the founder is talking then you should talk to the founders of the bar and then

talk to the founders of the bar and then sometimes if your sales team is talking

sometimes if your sales team is talking the sales team can talk to the

the sales team can talk to the bartenders vice versa I mean now it's

bartenders vice versa I mean now it's obviously the the lines are blurring as

obviously the the lines are blurring as well so when you are talking to the

well so when you are talking to the bartender of course I mean you are

bartender of course I mean you are selling the same product but at the end

selling the same product but at the end of it they you have to see what is the

of it they you have to see what is the bartender benefiting where is the you

bartender benefiting where is the you can't just say it's the best whiskey in

can't just say it's the best whiskey in the world and I have made a BBA which

the world and I have made a BBA which can you can you should just do it he's

can you can you should just do it he's not the decision maker right they are

not the decision maker right they are never the decision makers they are the

never the decision makers they are the ones who are actually going to be the

ones who are actually going to be the ones who can be Advocates of the brand

ones who can be Advocates of the brand they can talk about the brand you give

they can talk about the brand you give them the brand experience you give them

them the brand experience you give them if you have a Distillery call them which

if you have a Distillery call them which is now happening in India a lot a lot of

is now happening in India a lot a lot of the Indian makers are calling bartenders

the Indian makers are calling bartenders bar owners to to their Source right and

bar owners to to their Source right and actually explaining them the whole

actually explaining them the whole process of say Brewing the brand

process of say Brewing the brand creating the brand and then they become

creating the brand and then they become part of the story then it's the same

part of the story then it's the same thing right you experiencing the brand

thing right you experiencing the brand from day one and then you actually have

from day one and then you actually have a personal connect with that brand there

a personal connect with that brand there multiple touch points and every touch

multiple touch points and every touch point if you're a new brand you have to

point if you're a new brand you have to disrupt and physically you have to go

disrupt and physically you have to go talk to

talk to or and every person who's your

or and every person who's your stakeholder is the hero of his own

stakeholder is the hero of his own Journey so you think that if a counter

Journey so you think that if a counter salesman's journey is very different

salesman's journey is very different from a retail shop owners to a

from a retail shop owners to a bartenders to everything relate to that

bartenders to everything relate to that understand how your product can make

understand how your product can make their lives better whatever way it may

their lives better whatever way it may be and that's the only only connect that

be and that's the only only connect that you have nothing else Works money is if

you have nothing else Works money is if you are going to compete with money then

you are going to compete with money then you are already out of the game because

you are already out of the game because you're competing with people who have

you're competing with people who have like12 200 billion dollar you know you

like12 200 billion dollar you know you have to do something all the biggest

have to do something all the biggest Indian industry is run by multinationals

Indian industry is run by multinationals do you think sponsoring events works you

do you think sponsoring events works you can take this yeah so yeah it does I

can take this yeah so yeah it does I think these are all opportunities for

think these are all opportunities for Brands to Showcase their brand out of

Brands to Showcase their brand out of the bottle so for example in a g

the bottle so for example in a g Explorers Club uh there are two parts of

Explorers Club uh there are two parts of it uh legally uh event alcohol brands in

it uh legally uh event alcohol brands in India they cannot do their own events

India they cannot do their own events they can do their own events but they

they can do their own events but they cannot Market the content legally online

cannot Market the content legally online post doing an event so when these IPS of

post doing an event so when these IPS of cocktail festivals come up that's where

cocktail festivals come up that's where all these Brands come participate

all these Brands come participate content is created uh you get uh at a

content is created uh you get uh at a very low cost you get high footfall uh

very low cost you get high footfall uh you get people intrigued into your brand

you get people intrigued into your brand because of how you've decked up your bar

because of how you've decked up your bar and the and the engagements that you

and the and the engagements that you have on your bar and post that you've

have on your bar and post that you've not technically done your own event you

not technically done your own event you come create content there which you can

come create content there which you can further amplify online that's where you

further amplify online that's where you can call your influencers you can have

can call your influencers you can have also it works better sponsorships also

also it works better sponsorships also work far better is because you are

work far better is because you are actually experiencing the brand versus

actually experiencing the brand versus just seeing it on TV for example you

just seeing it on TV for example you were to see an ad on TV of XY Z whiskey

were to see an ad on TV of XY Z whiskey and Jin you'll see it you know Shah ruk

and Jin you'll see it you know Shah ruk Khan is selling it as the best amazing

Khan is selling it as the best amazing brand that's it that's the end of it

brand that's it that's the end of it right you sample it too

right you sample it too Ian I mean with the surrogate you see it

Ian I mean with the surrogate you see it but at the end of it now today it's the

but at the end of it now today it's the where that is where I feel the quality

where that is where I feel the quality of conversation has shifted where you'll

of conversation has shifted where you'll be like if I see grow brewing companies

be like if I see grow brewing companies say you know I whatever whichever

say you know I whatever whichever people's beer I see an ad versus if I

people's beer I see an ad versus if I actually get an experience of a I go to

actually get an experience of a I go to a music festival I get to try the beer I

a music festival I get to try the beer I get to speak to the maybe the founder

get to speak to the maybe the founder not the founder whoever con the whole

not the founder whoever con the whole experience is the product right so I

experience is the product right so I feel it's such a sensorial experience

feel it's such a sensorial experience just like food no no matter how many

just like food no no matter how many advertisements you can put on TV or

advertisements you can put on TV or newspapers and magazines this I would

newspapers and magazines this I would like to say like what uh shuch read he's

like to say like what uh shuch read he's created a niche like the GC created was

created a niche like the GC created was Jinn Jinn was exploding in India so what

Jinn Jinn was exploding in India so what happened like say my Jessel we start we

happened like say my Jessel we start we did it there the launch we're waiting

did it there the launch we're waiting for a GC actually delet the launch to

for a GC actually delet the launch to participate so what happened GC all the

participate so what happened GC all the Gin lovers were as I said to make the

Gin lovers were as I said to make the first 10 th000 consumer is the toughest

first 10 th000 consumer is the toughest loyalist then you become 50 then you

loyalist then you become 50 then you become Millions so in GC it was just an

become Millions so in GC it was just an evolution but all the Gin lovers because

evolution but all the Gin lovers because he had only gin were coming there which

he had only gin were coming there which he coupled like a carnival that is your

he coupled like a carnival that is your music and everything one is a function

music and everything one is a function it that alcohol is

it that alcohol is there he branded that so for that a

there he branded that so for that a brand to come there and actually the Gin

brand to come there and actually the Gin lovers coming there it makes a lot of

lovers coming there it makes a lot of difference and also splits the cost of

difference and also splits the cost of multiple Brands like if total cost is to

multiple Brands like if total cost is to do to do this event is four crores is

do to do this event is four crores is getting split between 15 Brands versus

getting split between 15 Brands versus then them creating their IP of their own

then them creating their IP of their own but I think there is a there's a so a

but I think there is a there's a so a brand is like a person and you have to

brand is like a person and you have to be really understand what's the brand

be really understand what's the brand personality before you think about

personality before you think about events I think when you one of the

events I think when you one of the easiest things is what you are not going

easiest things is what you are not going to do if you're clear about your brand

to do if you're clear about your brand then venturing into events the great SP

then venturing into events the great SP so like we were very clear that we are

so like we were very clear that we are not going to do any collectivist activ

not going to do any collectivist activ we are not going to do football

we are not going to do football screenings or anything that's General

screenings or anything that's General Trope in Bria because we as a brand are

Trope in Bria because we as a brand are focused on you know sustainability you

focused on you know sustainability you know making sure that you know we are

know making sure that you know we are probably like focusing on cre so we only

probably like focusing on cre so we only focus on sponsoring events which are

focus on sponsoring events which are like marathons which are like cycling

like marathons which are like cycling events which are Outdoors so you know

events which are Outdoors so you know what happens is you also then when you

what happens is you also then when you own one category and you're focusing

own one category and you're focusing entirely on it you become far more your

entirely on it you become far more your your entire you know digital spread is

your entire you know digital spread is only going to be messaging that is very

only going to be messaging that is very at sublinear level which is going to

at sublinear level which is going to come they're saying that okay this beer

come they're saying that okay this beer is only drunk or seen around these kind

is only drunk or seen around these kind of people identify that you know there

of people identify that you know there are thousands of events you don't have

are thousands of events you don't have that much dry powder you have to choose

that much dry powder you have to choose where you're going to go so you're

where you're going to go so you're saying don't go too broad pick what is

saying don't go too broad pick what is your brand value stry you have to have a

your brand value stry you have to have a plan I mean you second year third and if

plan I mean you second year third and if you can pick one category and go to it

you can pick one category and go to it till the end and become like someone

till the end and become like someone which is becomes a brand for cyclist or

which is becomes a brand for cyclist or a brand

Ford whatever it is then you are like example if you go to IPL you won't be

example if you go to IPL you won't be visible like you spend because we don't

visible like you spend because we don't have VC funders and the startup fund

have VC funders and the startup fund like not startup but like you know the

like not startup but like you know the big boys so you'll be lost it's all the

big boys so you'll be lost it's all the dots Etc who are sponsoring there so IPL

dots Etc who are sponsoring there so IPL if you sponsor you have to have a budget

if you sponsor you have to have a budget of 100 CR so in our language when

of 100 CR so in our language when someone comes to me and tells me we want

someone comes to me and tells me we want to launch a brand or we want to activate

to launch a brand or we want to activate the brand we create something called a

the brand we create something called a 1990 right one is your big launch where

1990 right one is your big launch where you'll spend maybe 50% or maybe 25% of

you'll spend maybe 50% or maybe 25% of your budget which will be a Delhi or a

your budget which will be a Delhi or a Bombay then in the nine where 50% of

Bombay then in the nine where 50% of your budget will go would be in your

your budget will go would be in your major metros which will be Delhi Bombay

major metros which will be Delhi Bombay Bangalore where you'll Target about 50

Bangalore where you'll Target about 50 bars each where rest budget will go then

bars each where rest budget will go then you'll create a 90 90 will be a small

you'll create a 90 90 will be a small activation which could be a drink serve

activation which could be a drink serve or a glass wear or a a tower which will

or a glass wear or a a tower which will go across majority Outlets across every

go across majority Outlets across every city in in whichever cities that you

city in in whichever cities that you want to activate so that's how you have

want to activate so that's how you have to split your marketing budget you

to split your marketing budget you cannot only uh do one launch and uh

cannot only uh do one launch and uh extinguish your marketing budget that

extinguish your marketing budget that happens we've seen many many you have to

happens we've seen many many you have to go consistent you have to go your

go consistent you have to go your marketing re Mumbai is the most Mumbai

marketing re Mumbai is the most Mumbai is the costliest to convert any City

is the costliest to convert any City like if he wants to launch his from

like if he wants to launch his from Mumbai as a startup it's very tough the

Mumbai as a startup it's very tough the kind of money it burns like you know it

kind of money it burns like you know it like I I I address Mumbai the last you

like I I I address Mumbai the last you always it's the most expensive Market am

always it's the most expensive Market am I right yeah absolutely because High

I right yeah absolutely because High entry barrier cost of K form which is

entry barrier cost of K form which is the government taxes you almost even

the government taxes you almost even cost of Entry the Rost of Entry the

cost of Entry the Rost of Entry the retail you know you need to Discount and

retail you know you need to Discount and sponsor a certain set percentage when

sponsor a certain set percentage when you want to space is limited so the

you want to space is limited so the retail stores are smaller so where would

retail stores are smaller so where would I start my liquor brand Goa Goa which

I start my liquor brand Goa Goa which brand you will first list in Goa by pay

brand you will first list in Goa by pay 50,000 Rupees BB you'll pay 50,000

50,000 Rupees BB you'll pay 50,000 Rupees as your listing fees to legally

Rupees as your listing fees to legally sell your in Goa see bourbon as it is

sell your in Goa see bourbon as it is suppose if you start you have to take

suppose if you start you have to take three years time then you come to good

three years time then you come to good and basically it's a 5e process from now

and basically it's a 5e process from now what if I buy old age no you can do you

what if I buy old age no you can do you can do the other model we don't we are

can do the other model we don't we are not distilling so we are also talking

not distilling so we are also talking about changing the model a little bit

about changing the model a little bit right so we we can buy spirit and blend

right so we we can buy spirit and blend it and age it and age it you have to AG

it and age it and age it you have to AG it find yeah we have to find a I feel

it find yeah we have to find a I feel goai will be easier than any other

goai will be easier than any other Market would be not yeah agent there

Market would be not yeah agent there itself um pay 50,000 Rupees to the

itself um pay 50,000 Rupees to the government get listed there for one

government get listed there for one product very

product very cheap get licenses first 120 180 would

cheap get licenses first 120 180 would be 12 lakh rupees oh whiskey is 25 lakh

be 12 lakh rupees oh whiskey is 25 lakh rupees per SKU in Delhi

rupees per SKU in Delhi to get your product listed that's just

to get your product listed that's just yeah that's just

yeah that's just listing who knows listing is for a for a

listing who knows listing is for a for a one to from a z to one why is the most

one to from a z to one why is the most expensive in retail like say rampur here

expensive in retail like say rampur here is

is 125,000 in harana it is uh 7,000 Delhi

125,000 in harana it is uh 7,000 Delhi it is 8,000 MB is highest tax so 44

it is 8,000 MB is highest tax so 44 would be G 49 would be this is after

would be G 49 would be this is after reduction for the last two

reduction for the last two years reduction Mumbai is the highest

years reduction Mumbai is the highest but this is after reduction rates so we

but this is after reduction rates so we got this interesting stat

got this interesting stat what percentage of a state's Revenue

what percentage of a state's Revenue comes from

comes from alcohol the highest happens to be utar

alcohol the highest happens to be utar Pradesh 22% and I we contribute 26% of

Pradesh 22% and I we contribute 26% of the states levenue wow that's crazy

the states levenue wow that's crazy Karnataka 20% 12,000 crores because

Karnataka 20% 12,000 crores because karnataka's taxation is mad it's like

karnataka's taxation is mad it's like 80% tax is what you pay in in between

80% tax is what you pay in in between second is Tamil Nadu second is Karnataka

second is Tamil Nadu second is Karnataka third Tamil Nadu Bengal

third Tamil Nadu Bengal B 20.2% percent percentage wise actually

B 20.2% percent percentage wise actually sorry pondicherry is 40% that's

sorry pondicherry is 40% that's Distribution Hub it's not actually a

Distribution Hub it's not actually a place where people then comes Punjab

place where people then comes Punjab utarak

utarak Himachal uh

MP they're all 17 to 20% up is the largest but this is crazy a state is

largest but this is crazy a state is earning 20% of its Revenue not one but

earning 20% of its Revenue not one but so many and they make

so many and they make why because because excise is the only

why because because excise is the only thing under State subject we've been

thing under State subject we've been lobbing that why don't we come under

lobbing that why don't we come under GST so for I don't get any input credit

GST so for I don't get any input credit don't we are the privileged ones the

don't we are the privileged ones the minute if I come under GST my whole game

minute if I come under GST my whole game our balance sheet would look so

our balance sheet would look so beautiful yeah can you make the case

beautiful yeah can you make the case like articulate because we'll make this

like articulate because we'll make this a real and put it out for whoever is

a real and put it out for whoever is listening why should you move from state

listening why should you move from state to

to GST see first of all any like suppose if

GST see first of all any like suppose if I'm transporting my material from Delhi

I'm transporting my material from Delhi uh up to any other state I have

uh up to any other state I have Interstate

Interstate duties then I do not have any input

duties then I do not have any input credit on my raw material excise Duties

credit on my raw material excise Duties are different so if GST comes I'll be

are different so if GST comes I'll be like normal there'll be you

like normal there'll be you Manufacturing in up are the duties lower

Manufacturing in up are the duties lower than Goa no no I have to manufacture

than Goa no no I have to manufacture every that's why I have 41 units that's

every that's why I have 41 units that's the biggest entry to barrier it's a big

the biggest entry to barrier it's a big cost uh cost uh not Logistics Duty yeah

cost uh cost uh not Logistics Duty yeah also so it's it's it's it's absolutely

also so it's it's it's it's absolutely like I'm telling you it's like to

like I'm telling you it's like to getting into liquor is so complicated

getting into liquor is so complicated because of that so I have a question for

because of that so I have a question for you a long now this is then I I so let's

you a long now this is then I I so let's you know think about it that you know

you know think about it that you know you Al Alco is slower because let's say

you Al Alco is slower because let's say if you were India's the biggest whiskey

if you were India's the biggest whiskey Market but we have apart from like the

Market but we have apart from like the biggest guys like rad ketan or you know

biggest guys like rad ketan or you know peros or di of the world nobody's making

peros or di of the world nobody's making malt Spirit here one of the reasons is

malt Spirit here one of the reasons is if you start malt you have to mature it

if you start malt you have to mature it for 8 years 12 years now I went the

for 8 years 12 years now I went the whole route of with zero money starting

whole route of with zero money starting going to investors in

going to investors in 20178 just with an ice box even the

20178 just with an ice box even the laptop was owned by pora so literally

laptop was owned by pora so literally most of the investors back in the day

most of the investors back in the day were all Tech investors and they had

were all Tech investors and they had they were very new to Consumer and any

they were very new to Consumer and any kind of open market money that's

kind of open market money that's available in India looks at that same

available in India looks at that same 11e return that everyone has to give to

11e return that everyone has to give to their LPS seven years s year yeah or

their LPS seven years s year yeah or even shorter your term sheets are 5

even shorter your term sheets are 5 years plus 5 plus two but you probably

years plus 5 plus two but you probably give the money so how would you now

give the money so how would you now create this kind of if you were to you

create this kind of if you were to you you see this is a $300 million uh 300

you see this is a $300 million uh 300 million cases industry largely run by

million cases industry largely run by whiskey with zero upgrade happening on

whiskey with zero upgrade happening on product essentially because there's no

product essentially because there's no Capital that can finance a business that

Capital that can finance a business that can have those many legs or the L of it

can have those many legs or the L of it as a person who is from Finance what

as a person who is from Finance what would be the product that you would

would be the product that you would probably create for this this category

probably create for this this category in terms of funding if somebody would

in terms of funding if somebody would come to you and say I would want to

come to you and say I would want to build a mall disher and you know the

build a mall disher and you know the returns would come after 12 years how

returns would come after 12 years how would you look at it what would be that

would you look at it what would be that good

good question as a startup yeah as a startup

question as a startup yeah as a startup phenomenal product made in a small

phenomenal product made in a small lab I think we are a little bit of an

lab I think we are a little bit of an exception to that rle rule because we

exception to that rle rule because we are a Perpetual fund of sorts cuz we

are a Perpetual fund of sorts cuz we don't allocate third party money and

don't allocate third party money and it's mostly prop money we have really

it's mostly prop money we have really long tenur the current thesis I have uh

long tenur the current thesis I have uh thesis passion Fascination is to watch

thesis passion Fascination is to watch Indian Brands kill it abroad uh so be it

Indian Brands kill it abroad uh so be it with radico be it with subco be it with

with radico be it with subco be it with Blu Stone be it ather

Blu Stone be it ather motorcycles these are all uh or 1111 The

motorcycles these are all uh or 1111 The Shirt Company uh these are all

Shirt Company uh these are all Investments which are far from maturity

Investments which are far from maturity uh the question if they will ever mature

uh the question if they will ever mature and turn profitable is also unknown but

and turn profitable is also unknown but my thesis today is to find the hero

my thesis today is to find the hero product find places where the product is

product find places where the product is solved for the rest of it will figure

solved for the rest of it will figure out along the way I'm there right now

out along the way I'm there right now and I'm happy to take these bets uh

and I'm happy to take these bets uh passionately take these bets and I have

passionately take these bets and I have a lot of fun with them nice yeah if I

a lot of fun with them nice yeah if I like a product in a certain category the

like a product in a certain category the marketing the sales The Narrative the

marketing the sales The Narrative the financials all of that come second if I

financials all of that come second if I can find a product that can compete

can find a product that can compete internationally I'll do it absolutely

internationally I'll do it absolutely but what if a product is born after 5

but what if a product is born after 5 years his question is that yeah

years his question is that yeah so already a person is there but one is

so already a person is there but one is that a person comes I can taste the

that a person comes I can taste the product in 5 years you mean you get you

product in 5 years you mean you get you get the glimpse of it maybe of the no no

get the glimpse of it maybe of the no no you'll only get the glimpse of the

you'll only get the glimpse of the packaging or whatever but or

packaging or whatever but or directionally to maltt and everything

directionally to maltt and everything it'll take 5 six

it'll take 5 six years your first money your Revenue

years your first money your Revenue exactly your Revenue after funding is 7

exactly your Revenue after funding is 7 years let's say six years I I'll tell

years let's say six years I I'll tell you my biggest worry and I'm being

you my biggest worry and I'm being really honest here with

really honest here with liquor I have to put it in a different

liquor I have to put it in a different box as many of these other Investments

box as many of these other Investments which might be an energy transition or

which might be an energy transition or whatever cuz there I'm betting sector

whatever cuz there I'm betting sector thesis if I'm betting on a electric

thesis if I'm betting on a electric vehicle which I will see in 5 years

vehicle which I will see in 5 years broadly I'm sold to the idea that we'll

broadly I'm sold to the idea that we'll switch from fossil to renewable and we

switch from fossil to renewable and we will need the end point to be electric

will need the end point to be electric to have efficiency in the value chain

to have efficiency in the value chain right so if I find a good guy there it's

right so if I find a good guy there it's enough with liquor it's a little bit

enough with liquor it's a little bit more convoluted because I the data I'm

more convoluted because I the data I'm accessing today

accessing today is we we typically tend to mimic the

is we we typically tend to mimic the West in terms of consumption patterns in

West in terms of consumption patterns in India and the fact that the genzi are

India and the fact that the genzi are drinking lesser than Millennials is

drinking lesser than Millennials is something which is of a worry to me so I

something which is of a worry to me so I would need to buy into the sector truly

would need to buy into the sector truly radico is an exception to me because

radico is an exception to me because they have a

they have a differentiated Indian first product

differentiated Indian first product which is almost patriotic in nature and

which is almost patriotic in nature and I love the fact that people are fighting

I love the fact that people are fighting over radical bottles in a beautyfree

over radical bottles in a beautyfree versus a glen fidic or another brand

versus a glen fidic or another brand like that I love the idea of that I like

like that I love the idea of that I like the names I like the taste uh these are

the names I like the taste uh these are elements that appeal to me today but

elements that appeal to me today but otherwise liquor as a category I would

otherwise liquor as a category I would have to be sold and somebody probably

have to be sold and somebody probably will come along the way and sell it I'm

will come along the way and sell it I'm I'm not taking the

I'm not taking the moralistic debate

moralistic debate here uh something is legal it's legal

here uh something is legal it's legal people should do it in moderation I'm a

people should do it in moderation I'm a capitalistic investor and I will not

capitalistic investor and I will not fiend morality and altruism in a manner

fiend morality and altruism in a manner that I don't have to and I don't believe

that I don't have to and I don't believe in doing it either uh if somebody smart

in doing it either uh if somebody smart comes to me and says here is this new

comes to me and says here is this new alcohol it was it's not a imfl it's more

alcohol it was it's not a imfl it's more like made from I don't know like from

like made from I don't know like from some lemong grass or some plant in India

some lemong grass or some plant in India and this has history and culture 500

and this has history and culture 500 years we will package it this way sell

years we will package it this way sell it that way we will take it to Market

it that way we will take it to Market this way in 5 years from now I would

this way in 5 years from now I would probably bite if he is convincing enough

probably bite if he is convincing enough but also 0 to one what I see in the

but also 0 to one what I see in the market is very few investors want to

market is very few investors want to back people in the alcohol space I had

back people in the alcohol space I had to P to 80 people and they say alcohol

to P to 80 people and they say alcohol meat that's a first answer I'll tell you

meat that's a first answer I'll tell you we're starting this new fund it's not

we're starting this new fund it's not actually a fund it is a grant it is

actually a fund it is a grant it is three times as big as Shark Tank we

three times as big as Shark Tank we don't in terms of the amount we give out

don't in terms of the amount we give out out we don't take any equity in the

out we don't take any equity in the businesses that we give these grants to

businesses that we give these grants to we just looking at young people nice

we just looking at young people nice under the age of 25 great ideas no money

under the age of 25 great ideas no money to execute and we are giving them money

to execute and we are giving them money through a segregation process not large

through a segregation process not large checks 20 lakhs 40 laks but to a lot of

checks 20 lakhs 40 laks but to a lot of people the end result is if it

people the end result is if it inculcates entrepreneurship in the

inculcates entrepreneurship in the country it's something that we're all

country it's something that we're all very passionate about and we're all

very passionate about and we're all we're all in this ecosystem where we've

we're all in this ecosystem where we've been so lucky by virtue of circumstance

been so lucky by virtue of circumstance over the last I don't know 15 20 years

over the last I don't know 15 20 years uh it has more appeal to me than giving

uh it has more appeal to me than giving that money to a charity what about

that money to a charity what about celebrity Le brands do you think it

celebrity Le brands do you think it works I know in fashion I'll give you an

works I know in fashion I'll give you an example uh when I've looked at Fashion

example uh when I've looked at Fashion cosmetic uh Brands led by

cosmetic uh Brands led by celebrities in India have not worked

celebrities in India have not worked globally have

globally have worked there's some dichotomy there I

worked there's some dichotomy there I don't know why it is not working in

don't know why it is not working in India what do you think will be the use

India what do you think will be the use case for

alcohol so globally uh the people who were building uh the people who were

were building uh the people who were building um alcohol Brands um in America

building um alcohol Brands um in America were celebrities and the following was

were celebrities and the following was of a certain uh strata and of a certain

of a certain uh strata and of a certain disposable income that would follow them

disposable income that would follow them right so tomorrow if RVE Singh starts an

right so tomorrow if RVE Singh starts an alcohol brand of a premium segment the

alcohol brand of a premium segment the people will see through that right so

people will see through that right so I'm not going to start drinking a

I'm not going to start drinking a certain type of product because AR Singh

certain type of product because AR Singh drinks

drinks it who should start what which actor

it who should start what which actor should start what I think um Aran Khan

should start what I think um Aran Khan what he's doing I think he's doing a

what he's doing I think he's doing a good job the Dial Dial he's got a he's

good job the Dial Dial he's got a he's got a vodka he's got a m now and he's

got a vodka he's got a m now and he's got a fashion brand I think zenan should

got a fashion brand I think zenan should do a wine

do a wine if at all you know I think it's very

if at all you know I think it's very interesting very interesting yeah you

interesting very interesting yeah you know because see you know's built

know because see you know's built Aviation how many of the people would

Aviation how many of the people would know her now no no regardless I'm saying

know her now no no regardless I'm saying like you know if you

see celebrity endorsement or celebrity doing a brand brand old brand does

doing a brand brand old brand does endorsement work because I it's

endorsement work because I it's basically putting talking about

basically putting talking about celebrity definitely yes how about

celebrity definitely yes how about celebrity marketed brand I'm sure you

celebrity marketed brand I'm sure you use cele see I've got a lot of

use cele see I've got a lot of experience with lot of we had a lot of

experience with lot of we had a lot of brand ambassadors did it work see what

brand ambassadors did it work see what happens now as a startup because I

happens now as a startup because I started with kind of zero

started with kind of zero money when I got engaged I didn't have

money when I got engaged I didn't have money to open a bottle of champagne that

money to open a bottle of champagne that time for my wife I was in

time for my wife I was in Kolkata so that kind we were like

Kolkata so that kind we were like stretched totally

stretched totally stretched

stretched so what I realized you take a

so what I realized you take a celebrity you buy buy a Mercedes you buy

celebrity you buy buy a Mercedes you buy a roll sty but you don't have petrol to

a roll sty but you don't have petrol to put in it so one is the celebrity the

put in it so one is the celebrity the film cost but the main thing is airing

film cost but the main thing is airing and doing justice so one is you do

and doing justice so one is you do justice with it so you have if you take

justice with it so you have if you take a celebrity you have to do proper

a celebrity you have to do proper Justice you have to spend enough money

Justice you have to spend enough money nowadays celebrity also if you see a

nowadays celebrity also if you see a movie to in especially now I'm talking

movie to in especially now I'm talking today's context a celebrity cost is huge

today's context a celebrity cost is huge film making is huge then to air it so

film making is huge then to air it so you have to have a substantial budget

you have to have a substantial budget but it works with the budget what it

but it works with the budget what it does it gets you immediate recall

does it gets you immediate recall depending on how you use the celebrity

depending on how you use the celebrity but not sales no it'll help you for like

but not sales no it'll help you for like you the eyeball eyeballs it's like

you the eyeball eyeballs it's like getting a cricket so like what he said

getting a cricket so like what he said with that the salesman has to be

with that the salesman has to be motivated the bar guys have to be

motivated the bar guys have to be motivated the pr should write about it

motivated the pr should write about it it has to be event should be there so it

it has to be event should be there so it has to be a 360° term so if you have a x

has to be a 360° term so if you have a x budget then you see where you have to

budget then you see where you have to spend it because alcohol it's a dark

spend it because alcohol it's a dark environment if

environment if celebrity marketed brand we have all

celebrity marketed brand we have all agreed does not lead to sales but maybe

agreed does not lead to sales but maybe gives you visibility in brand recall

gives you visibility in brand recall does product placement work how does

does product placement work how does that work the bigger question I have

that work the bigger question I have which I want to ask you like we've seen

which I want to ask you like we've seen in all the Ecom sites where they have

in all the Ecom sites where they have become like you know unicorns and

become like you know unicorns and everything see

everything see alcohol suppose money is for the private

alcohol suppose money is for the private equities no problem problem there's

equities no problem problem there's enough Capital which is available now

enough Capital which is available now suppose if you have a budget of 300 cres

suppose if you have a budget of 300 cres and you say I want to start a brand and

and you say I want to start a brand and in two years I go boom boom boom boom on

in two years I go boom boom boom boom on the TV media whatever dark environment I

the TV media whatever dark environment I have do you think will it

have do you think will it succeed in a Ecom it might succeed

succeed in a Ecom it might succeed because you buy customers you have were

because you buy customers you have were called to action but

called to action but alcohol I think it's very tough yeah has

alcohol I think it's very tough yeah has to build through taste it has to build

to build through taste it has to build through generations it has to build

through generations it has to build slowly what I believe in alcohol you

slowly what I believe in alcohol you cannot push sales right you have to win

cannot push sales right you have to win sales yeah yeah like as I said first

sales yeah yeah like as I said first 10,000 is important so even sometimes I

10,000 is important so even sometimes I brew with that idea whether is it the

brew with that idea whether is it the right strategy but in my last 20 to two

right strategy but in my last 20 to two decades of my experience I feel it's

decades of my experience I feel it's it's not worked but what ends up

it's not worked but what ends up happening is 0 to 100 happens when you

happening is 0 to 100 happens when you go into someone else's distribution

go into someone else's distribution chain right but the minute you put in

chain right but the minute you put in 300 crores you want that your sales

300 crores you want that your sales should happen then you dump the material

should happen then you dump the material the or a or diio or a perno to get into

the or a or diio or a perno to get into that distribution what ends up happening

that distribution what ends up happening is okay you want to take uh one uh case

is okay you want to take uh one uh case of Johnny Walker you have to take six

of Johnny Walker you have to take six bottles of this new brand which I've

bottles of this new brand which I've launched so it's actually literally

launched so it's actually literally pushed onto um

pushed onto um on so you say you buy this but I have

on so you say you buy this but I have this brand which is not selling still

this brand which is not selling still like Bott so then you'll be like I mean

like Bott so then you'll be like I mean this is this is fine let's take example

this is this is fine let's take example suppose if a guy comes a new guy I want

suppose if a guy comes a new guy I want to take your bar shelf I want visibility

to take your bar shelf I want visibility I'll pay you X lakhs okay you keep this

I'll pay you X lakhs okay you keep this much bottle she'll keep it once but if

much bottle she'll keep it once but if it does not go and it's a new brand

it does not go and it's a new brand first of all why will anyone come and

first of all why will anyone come and take a new brand it has to be built

take a new brand it has to be built gradually am I right yeah it's very

gradually am I right yeah it's very difficult in alcohol it's very difficult

difficult in alcohol it's very difficult where you can just pump in monies and

where you can just pump in monies and consumers will come it's a very slow

consumers will come it's a very slow process and also another very

process and also another very interesting thing about India is before

interesting thing about India is before you realize how your products doing you

you realize how your products doing you can so what happens a lot of times when

can so what happens a lot of times when you are you can grow by you start off

you are you can grow by you start off with say South Bombay and South Delhi

with say South Bombay and South Delhi and Bangalore and in one year there is

and Bangalore and in one year there is always in India there is always a rush

always in India there is always a rush to try a new product we are a large

to try a new product we are a large country people want to try new things

country people want to try new things because new things don't happen that

because new things don't happen that often so the consumer is drinking your

often so the consumer is drinking your product in say the early City so you see

product in say the early City so you see straction coming in but then you say

straction coming in but then you say okay you know I'm going to get money

okay you know I'm going to get money raise a large amount of money and I'm

raise a large amount of money and I'm going to go into newer markets so by the

going to go into newer markets so by the time you go to tana and you going to the

time you go to tana and you going to the suburbs and everything you're still

suburbs and everything you're still growing because you're doing primary

growing because you're doing primary sales but your original core consumers

sales but your original core consumers doesn't come back to you repeat this you

doesn't come back to you repeat this you start going from Tana now to nask from

start going from Tana now to nask from nask to ratlam it takes you five years

nask to ratlam it takes you five years and you can still grow year on year but

and you can still grow year on year but you if you don't measure your sale at

you if you don't measure your sale at Outlet level where you started your core

Outlet level where you started your core consumer stickiness and repeat then you

consumer stickiness and repeat then you may show a growth story on the numbers

may show a growth story on the numbers on the balance sheet but in reality you

on the balance sheet but in reality you are actually just recruiting new

are actually just recruiting new consumers through novelty and losing

consumers through novelty and losing them as fast as you are doing it and

them as fast as you are doing it and paying a huge amount of money to do it

paying a huge amount of money to do it and that's very very wasteful you're

and that's very very wasteful you're saying there's no mo people switch

saying there's no mo people switch there's no

there's no brand what I'm saying is you will go

brand what I'm saying is you will go from one geography to another and India

from one geography to another and India is a country you can show growth to

is a country you can show growth to anyone any investor yeah but eventually

anyone any investor yeah but eventually it is a repeat which counts yeah fair so

it is a repeat which counts yeah fair so if actors don't necessarily work for

if actors don't necessarily work for India what about social media

India what about social media influencers are they a good medium to

influencers are they a good medium to sell alcohol yes yeah but sell alcohol

sell alcohol yes yeah but sell alcohol means for a brand or what for

means for a brand or what for advertisement 100% they do uh you have

advertisement 100% they do uh you have to be careful on who you're investing on

to be careful on who you're investing on and uh do your research I feel there now

and uh do your research I feel there now apps and there are ways to actually find

apps and there are ways to actually find out if that influence is bought or of

out if that influence is bought or of who that person is talking to what the

who that person is talking to what the male to female Rao

male to female Rao is city which city they are operating in

is city which city they are operating in so

so you go through a agency cheaper way to

you go through a agency cheaper way to acquire consumers than than actors but

acquire consumers than than actors but also having said that uh what

also having said that uh what influencers also do for you is that they

influencers also do for you is that they are also physically present which

are also physically present which actually changes the game a little bit

actually changes the game a little bit it is kind of like the digital way of

it is kind of like the digital way of experiencing the brand you know in the

experiencing the brand you know in the sense that they will taste say a whiskey

sense that they will taste say a whiskey and be like I find it like

and be like I find it like Smokey also depends on the category if

Smokey also depends on the category if the higher you go suppose you go 8

the higher you go suppose you go 8 10,000 you don't need any marketing if

10,000 you don't need any marketing if you Market you won't be able to

you Market you won't be able to sell the only thing should be word of

sell the only thing should be word of mouth and PR press and the

mouth and PR press and the competitions if you go highest up there

competitions if you go highest up there there are spirits competi what worked

there are spirits competi what worked for your 5 lakh rupee bottle cuz I saw

for your 5 lakh rupee bottle cuz I saw rur Jessel everything even rampur J have

rur Jessel everything even rampur J have done that I saw it in the Press was that

done that I saw it in the Press was that organic press yeah yeah organic cuz of

organic press yeah yeah organic cuz of the novelty of a bottle cost absolutely

the novelty of a bottle cost absolutely it's it's the most

it's it's the most expensive that up

expensive that up right there was a huge article that 50%

right there was a huge article that 50% the luxury so I think the higher you go

the luxury so I think the higher you go it should be the press and you don't

it should be the press and you don't need to mark it because it looks like if

need to mark it because it looks like if you see the Bernard lvmh group I think

you see the Bernard lvmh group I think he's the biggest brand Creator Louis VTO

he's the biggest brand Creator Louis VTO your Mo tennessy Bel all the luxury but

your Mo tennessy Bel all the luxury but you don't see them Beyond a point you

you don't see them Beyond a point you don't see them advertising or Beyond

don't see them advertising or Beyond then that's a category play so if you're

then that's a category play so if you're in a luxury segment you will play

in a luxury segment you will play regular ET social influencers if you're

regular ET social influencers if you're looking at a lower like you know we

looking at a lower like you know we talking about 12 to, 1400

talking about 12 to, 1400 Lev I influencers are a great thing

Lev I influencers are a great thing organically people like your product

organically people like your product they post yeah I mean it's also you

they post yeah I mean it's also you don't have

don't have to now the new generation loves it they

to now the new generation loves it they are spending half the time on mobile

are spending half the time on mobile yeah yeah half the time they're on the

yeah yeah half the time they're on the mobile there is a catch it has to be

mobile there is a catch it has to be spoken about yeah right

spoken about yeah right there is a flip side to this where if

there is a flip side to this where if you come across as a brand that is

you come across as a brand that is paying for influence then people see

paying for influence then people see through it very very quickly also so let

through it very very quickly also so let it be organic you like Which is far

it be organic you like Which is far better because good people will your

better because good people will your relevant consumers will drink your

relevant consumers will drink your product and they will post about it

product and they will post about it because today's time also to's time

because today's time also to's time industry is a big influence so for

industry is a big influence so for example like I would send him to like if

example like I would send him to like if I have a bar in I will tell him or if

I have a bar in I will tell him or if he's in Delhi I'll be like hey come to

he's in Delhi I'll be like hey come to my bar and let's have drinks because

my bar and let's have drinks because this is mutual appreciation good for me

this is mutual appreciation good for me is good and I always post about it it's

is good and I always post about it it's a thing right

a thing right like we are all talking to the same

like we are all talking to the same people in the universe but there are all

people in the universe but there are all of us have pockets of people who follow

of us have pockets of people who follow you because you they think you know best

you because you they think you know best for the taste you know we'll go to

for the taste you know we'll go to Mini's bar next timei next time you have

Mini's bar next timei next time you have to make us the best cocktail and being

to make us the best cocktail and being from the alcohol industy have at least

from the alcohol industy have at least three cocktails so three of your best

three cocktails so three of your best right you should do this if you do this

right you should do this if you do this this would be

this would be insane far louder it'll be crowded

insane far louder it'll be crowded she'll be like wait in line no no we can

she'll be like wait in line no no we can we can use our influence we know minaki

we can use our influence we know minaki so she'll have a small uh but we like

so she'll have a small uh but we like crowds I send you to the CH it's very H

crowds I send you to the CH it's very H in so

in so premiumization is this a easier path for

premiumization is this a easier path for someone starting off to hit instead of

someone starting off to hit instead of trying to create a 1,500 rupee bottle of

trying to create a 1,500 rupee bottle of whiskey should I try to create a 10,000

whiskey should I try to create a 10,000 rupee bottle called Bangalore

I mean who's whose question is this it's like so we all talking yeah so I'm I'm

like so we all talking yeah so I'm I'm so we are I would say creating a 10,000

so we are I would say creating a 10,000 rupees a bottle also takes that much

rupees a bottle also takes that much more out of you in terms of the money

more out of you in terms of the money the resources the whole everything you

the resources the whole everything you you are raising the bar in every form

you are raising the bar in every form right it's like me saying I can have a

right it's like me saying I can have a bar here and then I can have a bar in

bar here and then I can have a bar in say Dubai or London what if I buy

say Dubai or London what if I buy radical's good whiskey at 5,000 rupees

radical's good whiskey at 5,000 rupees okay repackage it and call it something

okay repackage it and call it something else build a story and sell it for

else build a story and sell it for 10,000 and is a product this is It's a

10,000 and is a product this is It's a good slightly different yeah good

good slightly different yeah good product it depends what your goto Market

product it depends what your goto Market strategy is if your goal is to actually

strategy is if your goal is to actually launch the 1200 product but your go my

launch the 1200 product but your go my story will be 25-year-old boy in

story will be 25-year-old boy in Bangalore starts a liquor company

Bangalore starts a liquor company whiskey selling at 10,000 20,000 rupees

whiskey selling at 10,000 20,000 rupees XYZ sold but you have to have something

XYZ sold but you have to have something around the whiskey why why this 10,000

I don't feel price pick a like say there are red ants zal there are actual Reds

are red ants zal there are actual Reds in actual red ANS in the whiskey no

in actual red ANS in the whiskey no those are gimmicks those are gimmicks

those are gimmicks those are gimmicks gimmicks won't take you long

gimmicks won't take you long you whisky is 10,000 rupees so in these

you whisky is 10,000 rupees so in these categories where you are creating a

categories where you are creating a niche you have a great product to start

niche you have a great product to start with but you have a influencer someone

with but you have a influencer someone who has authenticity and who says this

who has authenticity and who says this is nichels Bangalore then it'll sell but

is nichels Bangalore then it'll sell but then they're buying into you right

then they're buying into you right they're not NE you the ini but your

they're not NE you the ini but your product in in the long term your product

product in in the long term your product will have to be great in order to get

will have to be great in order to get your second can you my real question

your second can you my real question here is can you discern between 5,000

here is can you discern between 5,000 and 8,000 rupe

and 8,000 rupe whiskey to a lay man I'm not talking as

whiskey to a lay man I'm not talking as an expert as one of you guys I'm blind

an expert as one of you guys I'm blind tasting a whiskey which cost 10,000

tasting a whiskey which cost 10,000 another which cost four can I

another which cost four can I distinguish that's objective is very

distinguish that's objective is very subjective that's subjective but

subjective that's subjective but 800 10,000 you 4,000 10,000 buying

800 10,000 you 4,000 10,000 buying something for 4,000 adding one El I

something for 4,000 adding one El I think you can make out if you're a

think you can make out if you're a whiskey person like if I am buying an

whiskey person like if I am buying an 8,000 uh you know rupees bottle I will

8,000 uh you know rupees bottle I will sort of have an idea what I'm looking

sort of have an idea what I'm looking for you know I might or might not uh

for you know I might or might not uh with full conviction no but I will know

with full conviction no but I will know a little bit of what I am looking for

a little bit of what I am looking for and also again see the price price is

and also again see the price price is never the ladder that is just the ladder

never the ladder that is just the ladder so you're also talking about what type

so you're also talking about what type right so there's Japanese r that are

right so there's Japanese r that are playing in lower angle I'm playing is

playing in lower angle I'm playing is because I'm selling it for more people

because I'm selling it for more people will make a natural assumption that it

will make a natural assumption that it is not so there is this fuzziness where

is not so there is this fuzziness where you see I I'll tell you now let us

you see I I'll tell you now let us divide whiskey in two categories either

divide whiskey in two categories either it'll be a scotch or Indian whiskey now

it'll be a scotch or Indian whiskey now a scotch is differentiated by

a scotch is differentiated by age and location location so 18y old

age and location location so 18y old generally it sells for about about close

generally it sells for about about close to about J

to about J huh a blue label is say

huh a blue label is say 18,000 now a Indian whiskey or anything

18,000 now a Indian whiskey or anything if you say that you're supplying at

if you say that you're supplying at 10,000 what is your

10,000 what is your USP the USP will become a worry then you

USP the USP will become a worry then you come onto a single malt single malt is

come onto a single malt single malt is region specific it's a world malt it is

region specific it's a world malt it is different where everything like the

different where everything like the wines earlier it was the French wines

wines earlier it was the French wines which were ruling the market today you

which were ruling the market today you have all the new age wines new

have all the new age wines new earlier it was only French same thing

earlier it was only French same thing like The Malt it was only Scottish malt

like The Malt it was only Scottish malt then you had the Irish whiskey the

then you had the Irish whiskey the bourban whiskey then the single malts

bourban whiskey then the single malts from Japan the Asian the cavins the now

from Japan the Asian the cavins the now the Indian Ms so there you can create

the Indian Ms so there you can create that differentiation with your blend

that differentiation with your blend with your CK so it is like an artistic

with your CK so it is like an artistic no I'm talking about premiumization from

no I'm talking about premiumization from the you can't

do but price is an indicator of quality and that is

and that is a Indian whiskey he can charge say

a Indian whiskey he can charge say 10,000 no no you can charge anything you

10,000 no no you can charge anything you want I think you know the basic idea you

want I think you know the basic idea you have to

have to just I know a lot of people who go to a

just I know a lot of people who go to a bar and want to order the most expensive

bar and want to order the most expensive thing yeah that's true that's true but

thing yeah that's true that's true but if you have a story if you have a story

if you have a story if you have a story there is an an 8,000 rupee scotch and a

there is an an 8,000 rupee scotch and a 10,000 rupee Indian whiskey that rich

10,000 rupee Indian whiskey that rich person will go for 8,000 rupee Scotch I

person will go for 8,000 rupee Scotch I don't know about that no baba but they

don't know about that no baba but they will also move they will also jump into

will also move they will also jump into the next

the next 10,000 they'll be like okay leaving

10,000 they'll be like okay leaving nichs brand now you have to have a in

nichs brand now you have to have a in your you have you have to have like

your you have you have to have like we've attempted where we've really got

we've attempted where we've really got successful where the first Indian

successful where the first Indian whiskey is at the bio Scotch level 100

whiskey is at the bio Scotch level 100 rupees higher our Royal RoR is 100

rupees higher our Royal RoR is 100 rupees higher than all the competing

rupees higher than all the competing Brands it's selling like hot cake but

Brands it's selling like hot cake but the quality the packaging the story is

the quality the packaging the story is better is very good do you think

better is very good do you think patriotism as a narrative is selling in

patriotism as a narrative is selling in India today if I were to create a brand

India today if I were to create a brand around alcohol 100% I think Indian being

around alcohol 100% I think Indian being a proud like always have advocated being

a proud like always have advocated being a proud company Indian company is the

a proud company Indian company is the way forward people are looking for

way forward people are looking for indianess people are proud to be Indian

indianess people are proud to be Indian like even if you see all my products

like even if you see all my products it's all indan indianness is euphemism

it's all indan indianness is euphemism for like rur that 5 lakh rupe bottle has

for like rur that 5 lakh rupe bottle has written in Sanskrit on this that

written in Sanskrit on this that happiness lies within so but what is the

happiness lies within so but what is the underlying emotion that you're appealing

underlying emotion that you're appealing to when you write in Sanskrit and call

to when you write in Sanskrit and call it ramp

it ramp I think like if you see the Indian

I think like if you see the Indian culture like if you go to New York

culture like if you go to New York Indians we are underestimating our

Indians we are underestimating our power with what has happened in the last

power with what has happened in the last decade and what is going to happen in

decade and what is going to happen in the next decade India from being a third

the next decade India from being a third world country we are becoming a superpow

world country we are becoming a superpow it's a translation we have to have that

it's a translation we have to have that uh belief in ourself yoga I was in New

uh belief in ourself yoga I was in New York there was a yoga week or Time

York there was a yoga week or Time Square with I'm agreeing with you so

Square with I'm agreeing with you so 100% indianess will say if you try to be

100% indianess will say if you try to be a foreigner try to be like the Western

a foreigner try to be like the Western Community you not different they are

Community you not different they are better than us but Indians are better

better than us but Indians are better than them I'm agreeing with you to the

than them I'm agreeing with you to the extent that I will give you an example

extent that I will give you an example of how the Chinese prefer Chinese

of how the Chinese prefer Chinese versions of different things that is the

versions of different things that is the most 0 89% is Thea margins they're the

most 0 89% is Thea margins they're the most valuable listed company in the

most valuable listed company in the world so I'm aligned with you the world

world so I'm aligned with you the world might be Del globalizing in a manner

might be Del globalizing in a manner where patriotism is sold to consumers

where patriotism is sold to consumers across the world in different

across the world in different Pockets my question is rooted from to

Pockets my question is rooted from to our audience to the entrepreneur who

our audience to the entrepreneur who starting a liquor brand whatever liquor

starting a liquor brand whatever liquor should he make that an inherent part of

should he make that an inherent part of his story no no look for authentic

his story no no look for authentic stories it can't be a gimmick it can't

stories it can't be a gimmick it can't be because see you you mentioned you are

be because see you you mentioned you are from a certain you have to have a

from a certain you have to have a passion if she started a bar it is a

passion if she started a bar it is a passion which is speaking so there is

passion which is speaking so there is some something like

some something like such the GC have been there it's

such the GC have been there it's fantastic or his beard so my point that

fantastic or his beard so my point that passion has to speak the story won't S

passion has to speak the story won't S patriotism isn't about being you have to

patriotism isn't about being you have to it has to link to the brand and and to

it has to link to the brand and and to The Branding to the crowd that we are

The Branding to the crowd that we are talking to should we

talking to should we recommend opening their company in

recommend opening their company in alcohol and Tequila mcal I know me and

alcohol and Tequila mcal I know me and abishek had long conversations about

abishek had long conversations about this where you can only call it tequila

this where you can only call it tequila if you get this GI tag I believe

if you get this GI tag I believe strongly In Agave based Spirit uh only

strongly In Agave based Spirit uh only because of price point what happened to

because of price point what happened to Jin uh in India because of the import

Jin uh in India because of the import duty if we educate if a big uh conate

duty if we educate if a big uh conate comes up and pushes The Narrative a lot

comes up and pushes The Narrative a lot of an AGA based perod because tiil La

of an AGA based perod because tiil La gets very expensive to serve at a party

gets very expensive to serve at a party right if you being serving a basic Don

right if you being serving a basic Don Julio uh Blanco in a place like Delhi

Julio uh Blanco in a place like Delhi you'll be spending about 6,000 rupees a

you'll be spending about 6,000 rupees a bottle you're entertaining at home now

bottle you're entertaining at home now people are drinking tequila the way they

people are drinking tequila the way they drinking vodka so minimum consumption

drinking vodka so minimum consumption for 30 people party you're doing you

for 30 people party you're doing you you're going to eight bottles right

you're going to eight bottles right there that's where what's D's brand

there that's where what's D's brand called pistola pistola pistola has come

called pistola pistola pistola has come in at a very good price point from go

in at a very good price point from go that's from Goa uh that's from Goa

that's from Goa uh that's from Goa they've come at a very good price point

they've come at a very good price point and I believe there is space for AA

and I believe there is space for AA based spirit in India if there is enough

based spirit in India if there is enough money to educate people that okay yes

money to educate people that okay yes tequila is has to be blue Weber GA from

tequila is has to be blue Weber GA from the region tequila from the region of

the region tequila from the region of five six states uh but there is a space

five six states uh but there is a space for aav Spirit coming out of India this

for aav Spirit coming out of India this folklore that tequila gives you the

folklore that tequila gives you the least hangover no not at all it is all

least hangover no not at all it is all all marketing all marketing so is

all marketing all marketing so is Hangover equally proportional to alcohol

Hangover equally proportional to alcohol percentage no it's also

percentage no it's also ining when you have whiskey see every

ining when you have whiskey see every alcohol is 42.8 basically until let you

alcohol is 42.8 basically until let you go for a cast strength now a whiskey has

go for a cast strength now a whiskey has malt so it has let's take say a vodka it

malt so it has let's take say a vodka it is the cleanest Spirit it is triple

is the cleanest Spirit it is triple distilled it is six time distilled Etc

distilled it is six time distilled Etc filtered so the cleanest Spirit same

filtered so the cleanest Spirit same thing tequila is a clean Spirit even a

thing tequila is a clean Spirit even a Jin is a clean spirit with some herbs

Jin is a clean spirit with some herbs and so is a rum okay explain to me what

and so is a rum okay explain to me what is Hangover why do you feel a certain

is Hangover why do you feel a certain way after a night of

way after a night of so when you drink wine wine for example

so when you drink wine wine for example if you drink a wine or a dark Spirit

if you drink a wine or a dark Spirit their their talins their impurities

their their talins their impurities coners it's called congeners so which

coners it's called congeners so which are called impurities in a spirit you

are called impurities in a spirit you dis yeah that's again chemical little

dis yeah that's again chemical little bit of ferment you also create higher

bit of ferment you also create higher alcohols not just ethy alcohol you also

alcohols not just ethy alcohol you also create more heavier alcohols which

create more heavier alcohols which normally in a pot or a still distill you

normally in a pot or a still distill you distill out at a lower like a height

distill out at a lower like a height because it's also alcohol but evaporates

because it's also alcohol but evaporates so you you have something which is

so you you have something which is called as a distiller cut so you try to

called as a distiller cut so you try to eliminate as much as high alcohol as

eliminate as much as high alcohol as possible but in beer what we do that's

possible but in beer what we do that's why beer is the hardest because you have

why beer is the hardest because you have no room to hide you're just giving pure

no room to hide you're just giving pure fermentation so it's the hardest thing

fermentation so it's the hardest thing to do because you make a mistake anybody

to do because you make a mistake anybody will catch yeah you can make something

will catch yeah you can make something is wrong with the beer quickly you have

is wrong with the beer quickly you have to be extremely more careful in terms of

to be extremely more careful in terms of how clean you ferment these things cause

how clean you ferment these things cause you hangover yeah so the more uh

you hangover yeah so the more uh fermentation is not balanced if your

fermentation is not balanced if your distiller is not really like skilled or

distiller is not really like skilled or how you are cutting it you will actually

how you are cutting it you will actually pass on a lot more higher alcohols and

pass on a lot more higher alcohols and you know all these oil basically there's

you know all these oil basically there's a term which is called fusal

a term which is called fusal oil heav is that the same for vodka teil

oil heav is that the same for vodka teil wh whiskey is different because whiskey

wh whiskey is different because whiskey you add malt you add BMS so it is more

you add malt you add BMS so it is more like if you have a whiskey that's why if

like if you have a whiskey that's why if you say when you're young basically

you say when you're young basically start from a vodka or a gin it's easier

start from a vodka or a gin it's easier on your pellet and aftertaste whiskey

on your pellet and aftertaste whiskey you have to acquire that taste so it's

you have to acquire that taste so it's heavy so there if like the VMS the

heavy so there if like the VMS the wetted mold Spirit mold Spirit if that

wetted mold Spirit mold Spirit if that is of low maturity then it adds that

is of low maturity then it adds that hangover to you and also with the vka

hangover to you and also with the vka andin it is more clean and Tequila so

andin it is more clean and Tequila so which is the alcohol if I have the same

which is the alcohol if I have the same quantity will I get the least hangover

quantity will I get the least hangover anything which is white vka I think Beka

anything which is white vka I think Beka definitely no beer hard liquor or what

definitely no beer hard liquor or what well made beer of course yeah yeah or

well made beer of course yeah yeah or beer

beer between vodka tequila rum all three of

between vodka tequila rum all three of you I think all the white AG Spirits

you I think all the white AG Spirits versus non-age so you can say AG Spirits

versus non-age so you can say AG Spirits are difficult because of course lot of

are difficult because of course lot of things are adding on I'm going to

things are adding on I'm going to digress and ask a question one I'll come

digress and ask a question one I'll come to each of you for a second one

to each of you for a second one underrated liquor at any price point not

underrated liquor at any price point not from your own brands that one should

from your own brands that one should drink absolutely

drink absolutely brand brand like they have their own

brand brand like they have their own Brands she can't say oh he can't say

Brands she can't say oh he can't say okay he will not name any brand start

okay he will not name any brand start with start with minaki one underrated

with start with minaki one underrated category or one underrated bottle of

category or one underrated bottle of alcohol underrated I feel like M M's Ry

alcohol underrated I feel like M M's Ry is a great

is a great superbly great Ry whiskey which I feel

superbly great Ry whiskey which I feel it's it's very difficult to get your

it's it's very difficult to get your hands on and many people don't know

hands on and many people don't know about it and I feel that that's a again

about it and I feel that that's a again that's a category uh that and that

that's a category uh that and that that's a space that everybody talks

that's a space that everybody talks about Scotch whiskey and now there's

about Scotch whiskey and now there's many other whiskies of the world I feel

many other whiskies of the world I feel that is is there space for for I to do

that is is there space for for I to do more interesting for me uh one of my

more interesting for me uh one of my favorite things to drink is uh a Kari

favorite things to drink is uh a Kari soda what Kari soda like BS is 28%

soda what Kari soda like BS is 28% alcohol compari as a spirit a lot of

alcohol compari as a spirit a lot of people just have it in a Negroni uh but

people just have it in a Negroni uh but as a as a drink I think Kari is one of

as a as a drink I think Kari is one of my favorite things to drink how is it

my favorite things to drink how is it underrated though it is underrated

underrated though it is underrated because most people on a regular basis

because most people on a regular basis whether it is underrated or not like

whether it is underrated or not like um maybe the availability is less or

um maybe the availability is less or what I love a glen Goen what is that

what I love a glen Goen what is that Glen Goen it's a maltt yeah Glen Coy

Glen Goen it's a maltt yeah Glen Coy yeah Glen Coy gleny is 21 I love it well

yeah Glen Coy gleny is 21 I love it well awarded very well pleased but you don't

awarded very well pleased but you don't get it much India has availability

get it much India has availability issue I think recently I tasted maybe

issue I think recently I tasted maybe like an aged rum called mesma Indian rum

like an aged rum called mesma Indian rum aged interesting effort you know in

aged interesting effort you know in terms of like so because there's nothing

terms of like so because there's nothing happening on rum Indian Ram yeah and at

happening on rum Indian Ram yeah and at a premium price point I sipped at it at

a premium price point I sipped at it at bar and it was quite interesting in

bar and it was quite interesting in terms of product I think that's yeah

terms of product I think that's yeah because there's so much more happening

because there's so much more happening in whiskey where there's big money and

in whiskey where there's big money and there big multinational like perno Dio

there big multinational like perno Dio all launching their Indian malls now

all launching their Indian malls now it's not just Amud Paul John and um

it's not just Amud Paul John and um radico it's open up quite a lot so I

radico it's open up quite a lot so I think whiskies all Indian whiskies tend

think whiskies all Indian whiskies tend to follow a certain pattern but I found

to follow a certain pattern but I found one Paul John's Christmas bold Edition

one Paul John's Christmas bold Edition was actually a very nice Sherry oroso

was actually a very nice Sherry oroso cast finish this year's

cast finish this year's phenomenal how big are prepackaged

phenomenal how big are prepackaged cocktails ready to

cocktails ready to drink non-alcoholic cocktail

drink non-alcoholic cocktail mixers as an industry do you see scope

mixers as an industry do you see scope there for somebody to build in I I think

there for somebody to build in I I think I have a very contrary opinion on Czar

I have a very contrary opinion on Czar in general because I think what is a

in general because I think what is a czer so you know the whole idea that us

czer so you know the whole idea that us really took off with czers now the last

really took off with czers now the last three years it's Czar claw and czers

three years it's Czar claw and czers were basically Brewers who were putting

were basically Brewers who were putting simple Ena which is extra neutral

simple Ena which is extra neutral alcohol with some sparkling water and

alcohol with some sparkling water and you know just like low calorie but if

you know just like low calorie but if you look at every Indian if you go to

you look at every Indian if you go to any AATA the way every Indian is

any AATA the way every Indian is drinking he's drinking a czar on his own

drinking he's drinking a czar on his own the Americans were mixing their with

the Americans were mixing their with whis with Coke but we in India are

whis with Coke but we in India are anywhere mixing with soda and water so

anywhere mixing with soda and water so if you going to create a cza everybody's

if you going to create a cza everybody's making their own Czar here so how are

making their own Czar here so how are you even it's it's so it's it's to make

you even it's it's so it's it's to make something like that from a cultural

something like that from a cultural context might be relevant to us but it

context might be relevant to us but it will be very different in terms of

will be very different in terms of stickiness to India it's still still a

stickiness to India it's still still a very Urban basically sells as a vodka

very Urban basically sells as a vodka soda yeah I mean technically it's a

soda yeah I mean technically it's a vodka soda it's anything which is but

vodka soda it's anything which is but India we drink everything on soda but go

India we drink everything on soda but go started that right sod

started that right sod so

so anything food it could be what say you

anything food it could be what say you whatever so it could be any flavor so

whatever so it could be any flavor so what about like pre- ready cocktail mix

what about like pre- ready cocktail mix oldfashioned mix thing is the the

oldfashioned mix thing is the the distribution is still the same as as an

distribution is still the same as as an alcohol no you still have to get the

alcohol no you still have to get the same license you still have to get the

same license you still have to get the same uh distribution you have to still

same uh distribution you have to still have the same retailer and at that price

have the same retailer and at that price point if I'm picking up a pre-made at50

point if I'm picking up a pre-made at50 rupees which not come into my house on a

rupees which not come into my house on a blinket or swiy I have to go to a take

blinket or swiy I have to go to a take to pick that I rather pick up a bottle

to pick that I rather pick up a bottle of alcohol and mix it at home what's the

of alcohol and mix it at home what's the deal with wine stores across the country

deal with wine stores across the country do they make 10% my answer on this would

do they make 10% my answer on this would be different I think it's a slow burner

be different I think it's a slow burner the old fashioned one right no there's

the old fashioned one right no there's not enough players who have jumped into

not enough players who have jumped into this field you think there potential

this field you think there potential here it's only bakadi who's there is

here it's only bakadi who's there is Breezers yeah okay that's the only comp

Breezers yeah okay that's the only comp biggest Global player right

biggest Global player right now we are talking about alcoholic or

now we are talking about alcoholic or non Al

non Al has entered the game has

has entered the game has entered India H

indiaia so I think the minute competition comes in this category can

competition comes in this category can explode because the main issue here is

explode because the main issue here is the

the refrigeration what happens people want

refrigeration what happens people want it cold the liquor shops are very the

it cold the liquor shops are very the size is very small so you give them a

size is very small so you give them a fridge basically space like why beer is

fridge basically space like why beer is not

not growing

because let's let's be clear beer drinking the premium Spirits drinking

drinking the premium Spirits drinking happens at home if we go to a side car

happens at home if we go to a side car if you have expensive whiskey and cost

if you have expensive whiskey and cost 4,000 rupes for a 60 ml people think

4,000 rupes for a 60 ml people think twice but the home they'll order

twice but the home they'll order especially Co has changed that beer they

especially Co has changed that beer they want to drink on the spot and that's why

want to drink on the spot and that's why refrigeration system in our liquor

refrigeration system in our liquor stores is very less so I think the

stores is very less so I think the minute that increases I think this is a

minute that increases I think this is a category which can explode but there

category which can explode but there needs to be competition you need to

needs to be competition you need to bring in flavors you need to bring in

bring in flavors you need to bring in the business of wine stores good

the business of wine stores good business if somebody wants to start off

business if somebody wants to start off I don't have too much information on

I don't have too much information on that though like Old School win

that though like Old School win store how does it work does does it work

store how does it work does does it work on 10% margin AC has system so you would

on 10% margin AC has system so you would know better on the tender system that

know better on the tender system that happens at least in see see what happens

happens at least in see see what happens like nowadays the uh like what you seen

like nowadays the uh like what you seen in Maharashtra with the liquid gold and

in Maharashtra with the liquid gold and everything they have institutionalized

everything they have institutionalized the entire livid living liquid is uh

the entire livid living liquid is uh they have U instiz the entire uh the

they have U instiz the entire uh the experience

experience but I don't know how it operates it's

but I don't know how it operates it's not that easy but I think it's

not that easy but I think it's profitable it's very profitable and uh

profitable it's very profitable and uh if you get your maths right you should

if you get your maths right you should not get into a place where you go for

not get into a place where you go for auctions but if you have a license

auctions but if you have a license system 100% you can do a great job right

system 100% you can do a great job right but now now but usually in G it works on

but now now but usually in G it works on some bidding system and then actually

some bidding system and then actually the store doesn't pay for for

the store doesn't pay for for construction they go to a Dio they go to

construction they go to a Dio they go to perno and they say this is my space turn

perno and they say this is my space turn it around in 30 days and then it's a

it around in 30 days and then it's a full branded store of of a certain brand

full branded store of of a certain brand but I think the opportunity also is in

but I think the opportunity also is in very Niche products now in the wine

very Niche products now in the wine category because you know you can have

category because you know you can have just craft and wine bars or like you

just craft and wine bars or like you know Outlets which are very specific the

know Outlets which are very specific the license is different right it could be

license is different right it could be the same license also give an example

the same license also give an example like say for radico if we get an

like say for radico if we get an opportunity where we can enter into a

opportunity where we can enter into a liquor store business where it is coriz

liquor store business where it is coriz like you know corporates can get into it

like you know corporates can get into it licensing is not an

licensing is not an issue like the Dy every state is

issue like the Dy every state is different so you cannot generalize the

different so you cannot generalize the entire country how much is duty free

entire country how much is duty free cheaper than I know every state is

cheaper than I know every state is different but let's say Maharashtra for

different but let's say Maharashtra for example or Karnataka or Delhi what is

example or Karnataka or Delhi what is the price of dutyfree alcohol versus

the price of dutyfree alcohol versus price on ground so it depends like in in

price on ground so it depends like in in Delhi especially in a place like GGO

Delhi especially in a place like GGO alcohol is not very expensive because

alcohol is not very expensive because your taxes are lower dutyfree also takes

your taxes are lower dutyfree also takes a percentage of your sales which

a percentage of your sales which actually now from G to dutyfree there's

actually now from G to dutyfree there's not too much difference at least from

not too much difference at least from gooda to a Delhi dutyfree no you're

gooda to a Delhi dutyfree no you're talking about a dutyfree say a Mumbai

talking about a dutyfree say a Mumbai and a Mumbai dutyfree airport or what

and a Mumbai dutyfree airport or what are you no no I'm talking about Mumbai

are you no no I'm talking about Mumbai airport dutyfree versus Mumbai retail

airport dutyfree versus Mumbai retail shop yeah that so let's give an example

shop yeah that so let's give an example say rampur in the Mumbai duty free would

say rampur in the Mumbai duty free would be

be 8,500 and in the retail

8,500 and in the retail 12,000 but delh to uh Delhi Duty fee to

12,000 but delh to uh Delhi Duty fee to Gan would not be that different comp

Gan would not be that different comp talking about the state versus the

talking about the state versus the dutyfree airport uh Bombay to a Bombay

dutyfree airport uh Bombay to a Bombay Airport would be uh higher difference

Airport would be uh higher difference versus a Delhi to a

versus a Delhi to a good and online delivery of alcohol make

good and online delivery of alcohol make it happen e-commerce what is the issue

it happen e-commerce what is the issue with it are some people doing it some

with it are some people doing it some people not doing it so West got a

people not doing it so West got a license it's a State subject so uh say

license it's a State subject so uh say West Bengal has agreed to it and is

West Bengal has agreed to it and is making money off it which is intelligent

making money off it which is intelligent of them but then some online would be

of them but then some online would be what only 5% or hardly yeah but the fact

what only 5% or hardly yeah but the fact that they've made it easy for for for

that they've made it easy for for for all of us but

all of us but I have living liquids in Bombay also

I have living liquids in Bombay also does something uh with online delivery W

does something uh with online delivery W it move power away from you guys to the

it move power away from you guys to the large e-commerce aggregators like it

large e-commerce aggregators like it like it does for other products like

like it does for other products like fashion okay I I'll change that what

fashion okay I I'll change that what happens like say the women they can't go

happens like say the women they can't go to a store so the consumers it'll

to a store so the consumers it'll expand what margins we are giving to the

expand what margins we are giving to the retail or for anything is the same thing

retail or for anything is the same thing but the distribution becomes very easy

but the distribution becomes very easy but what is to be said that Amazon

but what is to be said that Amazon tomorrow will not start a khur instead

tomorrow will not start a khur instead of rampur and push that higher up in

of rampur and push that higher up in their algorithm see if you see glob if

their algorithm see if you see glob if you see globally H online retail when it

you see globally H online retail when it was covid London everywhere it was on

was covid London everywhere it was on except India 45 days we were dry that's

except India 45 days we were dry that's why the media if you see they made a

why the media if you see they made a huckus about it but anything which is

huckus about it but anything which is say food there would be so much of Q so

say food there would be so much of Q so online delivery was there is prevalent

online delivery was there is prevalent in us everywhere but as a kpur or a

in us everywhere but as a kpur or a nagpur or a

nagpur or a rampur Amazon has not been able to

rampur Amazon has not been able to deliver that because alcohol production

deliver that because alcohol production is very different from a commodity a

is very different from a commodity a brand is different it's a luxury it's

brand is different it's a luxury it's experience you're saying if it goes

experience you're saying if it goes online will you go to an aggregator or

online will you go to an aggregator or will you want to do the delivery

will you want to do the delivery yourself no if I become a delivery guy

yourself no if I become a delivery guy like say

like say Amazon but then it's a different kettle

Amazon but then it's a different kettle of the logistic can happen through an

of the logistic can happen through an e-commerce player but brand Ming will

e-commerce player but brand Ming will still happen offline of course you'll go

still happen offline of course you'll go to an aggregator why won't you I mean

to an aggregator why won't you I mean you want to open it up you would want to

you want to open it up you would want to open up to everybody else and why would

open up to everybody else and why would you not see as long as the aggregator is

you not see as long as the aggregator is making a let's say agreeable sum which

making a let's say agreeable sum which is always a point of contention with

is always a point of contention with aggregators right so if they take a

aggregators right so if they take a decent sum out of your business and give

decent sum out of your business and give you the increase your width of

you the increase your width of distribution recy happens faster and

distribution recy happens faster and easier this is cash right this is retail

easier this is cash right this is retail so this is a cash and carry situation I

so this is a cash and carry situation I mean I why would you not I think it be

mean I why would you not I think it be fining Finance your inventory it's a

fining Finance your inventory it's a great see big biggest problem here is

great see big biggest problem here is legales it's like saying that anybody

legales it's like saying that anybody above legal drinking age below legal

above legal drinking age below legal drinking age cannot be and then you'll

drinking age cannot be and then you'll have these kids who are ordering alcohol

have these kids who are ordering alcohol all of that like who was regulating

versus the logistics like a a kid can today order a burger but a kid cannot

today order a burger but a kid cannot order a gin there is a whole lot of you

order a gin there is a whole lot of you know there would be a margin problem in

know there would be a margin problem in my opinion because if you give too much

my opinion because if you give too much power to the aggregator let's say the

power to the aggregator let's say the Blended margin for a successful brand in

Blended margin for a successful brand in the retail is somewhere around 12 to 15%

the retail is somewhere around 12 to 15% including your trade scheme nobody goes

including your trade scheme nobody goes beyond that unless you are a very early

beyond that unless you are a very early brand and it's a push sale that's a

brand and it's a push sale that's a completely different equation so any

completely different equation so any Aggregate and the cost of selling liquor

Aggregate and the cost of selling liquor at a te or a liquor outlet is very

at a te or a liquor outlet is very frugal the employment structure the

frugal the employment structure the salaries everything the cost of volume

salaries everything the cost of volume versus the money invested to do that

versus the money invested to do that transaction is less and it's also so

transaction is less and it's also so when you do the delivery model and you

when you do the delivery model and you start adding that extra cost I think

start adding that extra cost I think somewhere around you you're already

somewhere around you you're already having your back towards the wall when

having your back towards the wall when it comes to margins for liquor companies

it comes to margins for liquor companies if it stretches to what zomato swiggy do

if it stretches to what zomato swiggy do or 25% then it becomes very very

or 25% then it becomes very very unviable and that's almost like how us

unviable and that's almost like how us large big you know box retailers operate

large big you know box retailers operate where they have far more leverage they

where they have far more leverage they make distribution easy for you but then

make distribution easy for you but then it's also kind of like pregamed here you

it's also kind of like pregamed here you still have a great opportunity if you

still have a great opportunity if you understand the Nuance of the market you

understand the Nuance of the market you go granular you hack you play one one

go granular you hack you play one one one market where it's easy there's still

one market where it's easy there's still so many low-lying fruits I think what

so many low-lying fruits I think what happens if import Duty on foreign liquor

happens if import Duty on foreign liquor I read somewhere that the percentage is

I read somewhere that the percentage is going down 150 to 30 yeah can Indian

going down 150 to 30 yeah can Indian alcohol compete with International

alcohol compete with International alcohol s any kind of

alcohol s any kind of Duty if it comes down to 30 it'll be

Duty if it comes down to 30 it'll be tough competition they've said no it'll

tough competition they've said no it'll be phased to 30% over 3 years no no

be phased to 30% over 3 years no no right now it is 150 50% it'll come down

right now it is 150 50% it'll come down to 100 in one year one year next year no

to 100 in one year one year next year no that's what I don't know they're

that's what I don't know they're planning or whatever it is and then in 5

planning or whatever it is and then in 5 Seven Years it'll come down to

Seven Years it'll come down to 50% so today also if you see Indian

50% so today also if you see Indian production are priced higher like say

production are priced higher like say our malt is priced higher than any of

our malt is priced higher than any of the uh the well-known malts also it's

the uh the well-known malts also it's very so price perception has become

very so price perception has become different also what happens like lot of

different also what happens like lot of Indian companies are importing lot of

Indian companies are importing lot of scotch from outside yeah so that value

scotch from outside yeah so that value comes down straight away the profit goes

comes down straight away the profit goes up so I think it is like it's it's good

up so I think it is like it's it's good for the economy it has to be a balanced

for the economy it has to be a balanced and it'll be healthy yeah like for for

and it'll be healthy yeah like for for example for bars it's it's worse for me

example for bars it's it's worse for me to buy Indian Brands versus buying

to buy Indian Brands versus buying International Brands can you imagine

International Brands can you imagine like this is this is so funny so I have

like this is this is so funny so I have to buy a case minimum case is case could

to buy a case minimum case is case could be six or 12 whatever that you know your

be six or 12 whatever that you know your your packaging is and you have to pay

your packaging is and you have to pay more taxes to buy Indian Brands which

more taxes to buy Indian Brands which are Made in India versus I if I buy a

are Made in India versus I if I buy a scotch and a gin some somewhere else I

scotch and a gin some somewhere else I actually why is that but because I'm

actually why is that but because I'm actually buying far more quantity like

actually buying far more quantity like my quantity in up we are done so you can

my quantity in up we are done so you can buy a bottle in Delhi you have to buy 12

buy a bottle in Delhi you have to buy 12 bottles so buy single bottle I can't buy

bottles so buy single bottle I can't buy single bottle of ramp if I buy I have to

single bottle of ramp if I buy I have to buy 12 which basically means look at my

buy 12 which basically means look at my inventory so I'm sitting on 12 bottles

inventory so I'm sitting on 12 bottles and I have to sell it for whenever time

and I have to sell it for whenever time whichever time it takes me to sell for a

whichever time it takes me to sell for a Brands especially for super premium and

Brands especially for super premium and premium brand is very tough like they

premium brand is very tough like they come and say okay buy two and the rest

come and say okay buy two and the rest are free which is terrible for them like

are free which is terrible for them like as as as as makers of the brand right I

as as as as makers of the brand right I mean they don't want to give it for free

mean they don't want to give it for free and I don't want to buy it for free I

and I don't want to buy it for free I can sell it right so it's terrible it's

can sell it right so it's terrible it's terrible overall for the Indian Brands I

terrible overall for the Indian Brands I feel to sell in uh sell in on

feel to sell in uh sell in on trade

trade interesting I think we've covered

interesting I think we've covered everything like can you guys think of

everything like can you guys think of something a young person starting off

something a young person starting off will need that we haven't spoken about

will need that we haven't spoken about yet I think if you can just touch upon

yet I think if you can just touch upon like how does one go and get a um get

like how does one go and get a um get registered to sell in a state like I

registered to sell in a state like I would want to know that

would want to know that myself like I've got the product made

myself like I've got the product made I've got my co-packer now it's done Goa

I've got my co-packer now it's done Goa product ready next May how do I go to

product ready next May how do I go to Delhi and who do I go to which

Delhi and who do I go to which department how do I go about that

department how do I go about that process to get my brand registered and

process to get my brand registered and who do I go and

who do I go and pay no no you don't have to pay anyone

pay no no you don't have to pay anyone it's all official but what happens

it's all official but what happens official only how do who which

official only how do who which department excise excise Department you

department excise excise Department you have to get your label registered like

have to get your label registered like every state has a different

every state has a different and for every state by the way like like

and for every state by the way like like say every state is as I said 28 states

say every state is as I said 28 states are like 28 different countries

are like 28 different countries Karnataka you go when you register

Karnataka you go when you register excise will put your label for 40 days

excise will put your label for 40 days someone if someone objects they will say

someone if someone objects they will say no there is a criteria once you get then

no there is a criteria once you get then you get registered then you supply your

you get registered then you supply your material Goa it is easier yeah go it is

material Goa it is easier yeah go it is the easiest up then in certain states

the easiest up then in certain states you have to once a year the label you

you have to once a year the label you can apply if you take the pricing you

can apply if you take the pricing you cannot increase the pricing if the

cannot increase the pricing if the government does not allow you to so

government does not allow you to so every state has a different uh uh uh

every state has a different uh uh uh system so label has to be different for

system so label has to be different for every state No Label has to be same but

every state No Label has to be same but suppose if you have a different pricing

suppose if you have a different pricing then the descriptor Etc has has

then the descriptor Etc has has different pricing the

different pricing the EDP the EDP means X distill

EDP the EDP means X distill price okay so that has to be like

price okay so that has to be like certain states have that you have to

certain states have that you have to have the lowest price the lowest EDP

have the lowest price the lowest EDP it's another math wants the lowest has

it's another math wants the lowest has always wanted the lowd wants the lowest

always wanted the lowd wants the lowest so they ask for it they say are we the

so they ask for it they say are we the cheapest in India only then you can

cheapest in India only then you can register so you have to claim it like

and you have to actually say no I'm the cheapest with you so it's like you going

cheapest with you so it's like you going to 10 markets and then saying I'm the

to 10 markets and then saying I'm the cheapest with you but so then you have

cheapest with you but so then you have to follow through right you can't also

to follow through right you can't also cheat on how can you be the cheapest

cheat on how can you be the cheapest with 10 no like you or ex distiller

with 10 no like you or ex distiller price let's say is 11100 for Goa but you

price let's say is 11100 for Goa but you only have 250 R in taxation which is the

only have 250 R in taxation which is the lowest then your price becomes 14450

lowest then your price becomes 14450 1350 but let's say you are in Delhi and

1350 but let's say you are in Delhi and you have to pay another 1,000 rupees

you have to pay another 1,000 rupees then you go 2100 so your MRP on the

then you go 2100 so your MRP on the consumer end will be different but you

consumer end will be different but you could be cheapest in both the states at

could be cheapest in both the states at the same time but because of the tax

the same time but because of the tax because of the also the excise policies

because of the also the excise policies in certain states determine that you

in certain states determine that you cannot have differential pricing in

cannot have differential pricing in different states they want to regulate

different states they want to regulate it to that so like for example do you

it to that so like for example do you have a person in your company who does

have a person in your company who does this for you or who policies you no I

this for you or who policies you no I think eventually everybody learns I mean

but the state you have all the state head it's like a it's a I'm talking

head it's like a it's a I'm talking about people from Z to one like if I

about people from Z to one like if I want to start something I would not know

want to start something I would not know where to go to um and understand this

where to go to um and understand this taxation I think you know my personal

taxation I think you know my personal experience has been like so when I was

experience has been like so when I was just to ask a question

just to ask a question is to Spirits you have to be initially

is to Spirits you have to be initially is easier yeah okay and is it easier in

is easier yeah okay and is it easier in low ABV to Spirits huh no no it's the

low ABV to Spirits huh no no it's the same for everyone but I think you know

same for everyone but I think you know when you it's a government department so

when you it's a government department so you know you probably so I'll tell you

you know you probably so I'll tell you one experience of mine so when I was

one experience of mine so when I was just starting out and we didn't have a

just starting out and we didn't have a policy or a license to allow you to

policy or a license to allow you to bottle so literally go and like you know

bottle so literally go and like you know work with every little desk in the

work with every little desk in the excise Department from one step to the

excise Department from one step to the other so I spent literally 6 months in

other so I spent literally 6 months in the Goa excise Department Department I

the Goa excise Department Department I would go every morning after quitting my

would go every morning after quitting my job 9:00 to 6:00 and one day there was a

job 9:00 to 6:00 and one day there was a fire that broke out in that excise

fire that broke out in that excise office so the commissioner came out and

office so the commissioner came out and he did a roll call because of the

he did a roll call because of the employees and he said

Brewing I've gone through all this you know so so it is that level of you know

know so so it is that level of you know to you understand once you know then you

to you understand once you know then you got a favorable policy which allowed you

got a favorable policy which allowed you to do it but you had to literally go and

to do it but you had to literally go and convince people that you know you want

convince people that you know you want to do this and that's how government

to do this and that's how government departments the same thing like what

departments the same thing like what what they face in building uh products I

what they face in building uh products I face that in doing events absolutely

face that in doing events absolutely yeah so in a place like Delhi Delhi is

yeah so in a place like Delhi Delhi is great to do events good Gau for example

great to do events good Gau for example if I do a sale of two cres of alcohol

if I do a sale of two cres of alcohol from an event right I have to pay 18%

from an event right I have to pay 18% vat upfront of total salable amount

vat upfront of total salable amount beforehand to the government even though

beforehand to the government even though I'm giving free stock secondly in a

I'm giving free stock secondly in a place like Bangalore they cannot give me

place like Bangalore they cannot give me free stock I have to physically go as a

free stock I have to physically go as a event owner go and buy stock which will

event owner go and buy stock which will be block of about 50 to 60 lakh rupees

be block of about 50 to 60 lakh rupees of mine before the event so they and

of mine before the event so they and they look they look at you like you're

they look they look at you like you're doing something wrong why you picking up

doing something wrong why you picking up 600 cases of alcohol for an event what

600 cases of alcohol for an event what type of event are you doing not for him

type of event are you doing not for him he's they look at you very differently

he's they look at you very differently so whenever I go to the offices Because

so whenever I go to the offices Because by the end of a license have get taken

by the end of a license have get taken on my name you know when you come on

on my name you know when you come on manufacturing you have hologram you have

manufacturing you have hologram you have track and Trace you have so many things

track and Trace you have so many things and it keeps changing it's it's like a

and it keeps changing it's it's like a is duplication a big problem for you see

is duplication a big problem for you see duplication now what has happened

duplication now what has happened is each state as you rightly said the

is each state as you rightly said the figure 22% of Up's Revenue everyone is

figure 22% of Up's Revenue everyone is so dependent on the excise revenue and

so dependent on the excise revenue and if any state has to succeed they don't

if any state has to succeed they don't allow duplicacy so this was a problem 15

allow duplicacy so this was a problem 15 20 years back when I started work now

20 years back when I started work now it's gone minimal but you can see some

it's gone minimal but you can see some Progressive changes like absolutely

Progressive changes like absolutely we've seen like even in Delhi everything

we've seen like even in Delhi everything now that since I mean we've been

now that since I mean we've been operating in Dei and it had it went

operating in Dei and it had it went online it was great it was barcoded

online it was great it was barcoded everything which is like it was so much

everything which is like it was so much easier for us to pick up stuff from

easier for us to pick up stuff from retail pay size and then deal with the

retail pay size and then deal with the retailers like our life became so much

retailers like our life became so much simpler detailer at a point time yeah

simpler detailer at a point time yeah yeah exactly so what I'm saying is there

yeah exactly so what I'm saying is there are really like you know small changes

are really like you know small changes which keep happening and we've seen that

which keep happening and we've seen that over a period of time basically we

over a period of time basically we should be like the software industry

should be like the software industry like Bangalore Karnataka where the

like Bangalore Karnataka where the government didn't interfere Beyond a

government didn't interfere Beyond a point and the industry flourished so the

point and the industry flourished so the minute if we pay Revenue have the excise

minute if we pay Revenue have the excise check at the point of the factory at the

check at the point of the factory at the revenue and let it live open it up yeah

revenue and let it live open it up yeah same thing open a bar man like 30

same thing open a bar man like 30 license sorry 30 licenses it's a lot of

license sorry 30 licenses it's a lot of licenses so I mean we know how much it

licenses so I mean we know how much it takes to

takes to even packing you still good when you're

even packing you still good when you're building your own dis the licenses are

building your own dis the licenses are like chemical and fire to understand one

like chemical and fire to understand one a like on the other side like you

a like on the other side like you invting to sell food liquor can make too

invting to sell food liquor can make too much money or is it like like

much money or is it like like a how do I say it's like

a how do I say it's like a it's like a like like the liquor

a it's like a like like the liquor industry like people have a feeling that

industry like people have a feeling that you know it makes too much money or it's

you know it makes too much money or it's very easy to make money yeah what do you

very easy to make money yeah what do you feel I don't think so the number of

feel I don't think so the number of brands that have shut down during covid

brands that have shut down during covid is Testament to how difficult it is to

is Testament to how difficult it is to make money in the liquor industry also

make money in the liquor industry also in the bar industry I feel very few

in the bar industry I feel very few people make money yeah uh but the ones

people make money yeah uh but the ones who make money and succeed for a

who make money and succeed for a prolonged period will continue will

prolonged period will continue will probably make a lot more money which is

probably make a lot more money which is fair it's

fair it's capitalism right gradual distribution

capitalism right gradual distribution exactly

exactly I think survival of the fittest yeah

I think survival of the fittest yeah eventually yeah yeah no but isn't that

eventually yeah yeah no but isn't that true for every every indry is that true

true for every every indry is that true for every industry like you have to be

for every industry like you have to be resilient okay last part of today is at

resilient okay last part of today is at the end of every podcast every show we

the end of every podcast every show we have something that we do to the young

have something that we do to the young Community we've been speaking to

Community we've been speaking to throughout so we all allocate a certain

throughout so we all allocate a certain amount of money it can be anything it

amount of money it can be anything it can be 100 rupees it can be x amount and

can be 100 rupees it can be x amount and then we will all get together and

then we will all get together and together decide which young startup in

together decide which young startup in Liquor Bar fantastic events to invest in

Liquor Bar fantastic events to invest in so I'm just going to go around ask you

so I'm just going to go around ask you guys to commit some amount of money we

guys to commit some amount of money we can start with surage I'll commit like

can start with surage I'll commit like five lakhs you can make it anything you

five lakhs you can make it anything you can make huh 20 yeah yeah I'll match

can make huh 20 yeah yeah I'll match five lakhs okay yeah okay five what are

five lakhs okay yeah okay five what are we doing though is it a we making little

we doing though is it a we making little 40 55 like really tiny no but it's seed

40 55 like really tiny no but it's seed investment can get you a it can get you

investment can get you a it can get you started off with a co- packing because

started off with a co- packing because not setting up a disy unfortunately just

not setting up a disy unfortunately just find a bright kid like a really bright

find a bright kid like a really bright kid who has potential to build something

kid who has potential to build something give him this money and say go explore

give him this money and say go explore that would and we'll figure out who the

that would and we'll figure out who the kid is together probably come from you

kid is together probably come from you guys cuz you know more people here than

guys cuz you know more people here than I do nice okay thank you everyone for

I do nice okay thank you everyone for coming I hope you all had fun and last

coming I hope you all had fun and last thank you so much for having us yeah

thank you so much for having us yeah thank you so much we work together look

thank you so much we work together look forward to working with all of you for

forward to working with all of you for both of us in one day

both of us in one day or have to do a Delhi un and then a un

or have to do a Delhi un and then a un no at least I made three friends yeah

no at least I made three friends yeah absolutely done thanks guys thank you

absolutely done thanks guys thank you you lovely

you lovely [Music]

[Music] super is in yeah this state too St go

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YouTube Transcript:Ep #18 | WTF, Alcohol is a $70B Business in India? | Nikhil Kamath explores Gaps & Opportunities

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Ep #18 | WTF, Alcohol is a $70B Business in India? | Nikhil Kamath explores Gaps & Opportunities