The content explores the modern challenges of comparison, isolation, and the pursuit of external validation, advocating for a shift towards self-competition, genuine connection, and embracing adversity as a path to growth and fulfillment.
Mind Map
Genişletmek için tıkla
Tam etkileşimli Mind Map'i keşfetmek için tıkla
Somebody at 19 is like a billionaire. 22
is doing this. 25 is doing that. And at
25, I already feel like I'm left behind.
How do I get out of this feeling?
There's always somebody out there that
you can always find who's better than
you. It depends what metric you're
looking at. Worry about yourself. Let
them worry about themselves. There is no
winning and losing in this game. It's
the wrong mindset. Nobody wins career.
Nobody wins business. Nobody wins
health. Nobody wins family. Doesn't
exist. There's no number one in any of
those things. Say to yourself, "Am I
doing better today than I did
yesterday?" compete against you. That's
the best competitor.
>> What breaks your heart today about the
way people are living their life right
now in today's generation?
>> No human being ever accomplished
anything great by themselves. There was
always other people involved. And so
what breaks my heart is that we become a
very isolated individualistic group.
We've forgotten the value of teams and groups.
groups.
One thing which is also bothering is we
never even learn how to sit with
ourselves, how to be bored. And that's
why we don't even think that how to
become a better person. You know the
story of the two lumberjacks. Every
morning they both start cutting wood at
the same time. Every day they stop
cutting wood at the same time. And every
day in the middle of the day, one
lumberjack disappears for an hour. And
every day that lumberjacks cuts more
woods than the other one. And so one day
after months of this, the lumberjack who
works all day, he says, "I have to ask
you. Every day we start work at the same
time. Every day we stop work at the same
time. and every day you cut more wood
than me. Where do you go for that hour?
And the other lumberjack lifts up and
goes, "Oh, I go home and sharpen my
axe." And so working all the time
doesn't necessarily make you more
productive. Taking breaks and sharpening
your axe makes you more productive.
And we know like, but we usually have
our best ideas in the shower or when we
go for a run. And it's because our
subconscious brains have access to the
equivalent of something like 11 acres of
information. Every question, every
movie, every book gets stored somewhere.
But you can't consciously access that
part of the brain. But when you're
allowing your brain to ruminate, it
finds connections that your thinking
brain doesn't.
>> Now there are more opportunities for a
young person that they can be more
artistic, they can be more original, yet
they are choosing not to be original and
not to be artistic. When you start
working for the approval of others, it
destroys art. And that's largely what a
lot of content creation is, is you're a
freelance employee of an algorithm. The
minute you include money, the minute
you're working for the algorithm, then
you're no longer working for the
creativity anymore.
A lot of young people just running away
from problems by naming it ambition.
People deal with stress in different
ways. Some people disappear and some
people double down on work. You know,
you talk to any successful person on the
planet. They don't learn lessons when
things go well. They learn lessons when
things go badly. And every time things
go wrong and they work their way through
it or get their way through it, it makes
them stronger, smarter, fitter, better.
And so you can't live a life of adversity.
adversity.
The other person doesn't understand you
and you go to
that understands you. and somehow you
feel like you just have this only one
friend. Do you think it's it temporarily
being lonely is better or when you have
nobody making AI your friend is better?
>> AI has some benefits, but I would be
worried if AI was the only friend that
somebody had. Did you see the movie Her?
>> No, not yet. So, in the movie Her, he
has a rel a very intimate relationship
with an AI bot. He's madly in love with
her. And then he discovers that she's
having an intimate relationship with
millions of people simultaneously. And
he's so upset cuz he thought he was
special. and she says, "I can have
relationships with millions of people.
You're not the only one." And at the end
of the day, what makes a relationship
amazing is that we know that we're
special. And AI bots will make us feel
like we're special, but at the same
time, they're doing it for millions of
Before we start today's episode, we are
on a mission to make an Indian podcast
reach world number one. And as of today,
we need 20.8 8 million subscribers to
get there. So, if you have found
anything valuable from this channel,
please subscribe. It's free and it takes
less than a minute, but for us, it means
a lot and it will take us closer to our
dream. And in return, we promise to keep
bringing you bigger and better guest
every single time to make conversation
more valuable for you. Now, if there's
one name that comes up every time you
talk about leadership, purpose, the why
of things, it's Simon Senic. He has
delivered one of the most washed TED
talks ever. He has authored global
bestsellers that have been translated
into multiple languages. and the
framework he's created have been adopted
by top leaders, Fortune 500 companies
and military leaders all around the
world to transform their lives and their
companies. I personally have been
following his work for a very long time
and I've learned a lot from him. So, I
hope you take something valuable from
this conversation as well. In this
episode, we've talked about why trust is
collapsing everywhere, why Jenzi already
feels like they're behind, whether love
and ambition can actually coexist, and
whether Simon would tell his younger
self to do anything differently. Watch
this episode till the end, and let me
know what are your key takeaways from
this conversation in the comments. Enjoy
I got to tell you that you are the only
person like not like one of probably one
or three four people in my life who I've
been constantly following since like 10
12 years. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> And I've not gotten bored like every
time you come up with some new insight
even though I've heard you like almost
every interview of yours or podcast of yours.
yours.
>> Thank you.
>> And it's it's incredible. I was telling
the team that there were so many heroes
back then in 2013 who I used to look up to
to
>> and almost everyone I've outgrown in
some way because I've listened to them a lot.
lot.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And then you come up with some stuff and
I'm really happy that I'm doing this conversation.
conversation.
>> I'm glad. Thank you for having me. It's
very nice of you.
>> Thank you.
>> Very nice words.
>> Tell me what breaks your heart today
about the way people are living their
life right now in today's generation.
Well, I think we've it's it's the it's
the lack of relationships and uh it's
and you know, we're social animals and
we need each other and whether it's at
work or whether it's at home uh where
people feel like they can't ask for help
uh or they feel like um asking for help
is some sort of weakness.
Um, and then all of the social media and
our phones, they only exaggerate that.
They and and they give a false sense of
I'm okay. Um, and so what breaks my
heart is that we've become a very um
isolated individualistic
group. And you look at sort of even
incentive structures in companies, it's
largely based on individual performance.
>> Um, and that we've forgotten the value
of teams and groups. And you know,
nobody no human being ever accomplished
anything great by themselves. >> True.
>> True.
>> You know, it there was always other
people involved.
>> Do you feel it's because we have become
more individualistic or is it because
we're lacking or losing trust on
organizations and people and just in groups?
groups?
>> Uh they feed each other. So the more the
that we've lost trust in organizations
and companies that don't seem to care
about their people, the more we're like,
"Wow, fine. If you're not going to take
care of me, I'll take care of me." And
the more selfish we become, the more,
you know, trust breaks. And so it's they
feed each other. Um the business models
and the and the models for leadership
have absolutely contributed to that
100%. And we we can see we can see uh
where it came from. we can see where
like when mass layoffs were first
embraced in the early 1980s and it was
kind of still a new idea to use layoffs
to balance the books. Um uh and we can
start to see how uh Jack Welch and his
those those people from General Electric
who sort of promoted these individual
performance uh you know mass layoffs,
short- termism, quarterly results, they
promoted shareholder value. They
promoted these ideas and you can start
to see how how it affected human
behavior because when you change the
incentive structures and the reward
structures, you get, you know, you
change behaviors. Um and uh um and the
idea of giving your your your career to
one company or two companies over the
course of an entire lifetime disappeared.
disappeared. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Why do you think what's happening?
Because mass layoffs have been here for years.
years.
>> All of a sudden, why are we losing trust
so much now? It's not only on
organizations, it's on individuals, it's
on groups, it's in society, it's on the
governments. Like there's something
probably deeper happening because of
which we have stopped trusting people.
This is like a slow boiling frog, right?
It's been the water's been slowly
heating up for years. And if it's
reached a crescendo and everybody's
like, why is it so much like right now?
I'm like, well,
we've been getting here on a pretty
steady basis. Um but I think you raise
interesting points which is you know we
we see governments operating like
companies where governments the people
who who who who have careers in politics
they have a shorter term mindset and
they are thinking about winning and
losing rather than advancing a cause.
you know, they want to it's it's it you
see it in politics as well, very short
very short-termist. And look,
>> you can't talk about things like greed
and those things that have existed since
the dawn of human beings, right?
>> Um but why is it that the checks and
balances on those kinds of things are
reduced and and I think there's a
distinct lack of belonging. You know, I
think people don't feel like they belong
to things anymore. And you can see on
the on the left or the right of
politics, people grabbing onto things
trying to find that sense of belonging.
you know, they latch on to a they latch
on to some sort of issue and that
becomes their movement until it's the
next thing. Um, you know, rarely are
these things lifetimes worth of of
connection. So, I think you can we're
starting to see, you know, this lack of
belonging affecting us because when
there's a lack of belonging and you feel
like, well, it's just me, then you're
like, well, if nobody's going to look
out for me, I'll look out for me. Is it
also happening because
because the whole information has gotten
faster like we started trusting people
or losing trust in people in like 30
seconds somebody and then it think blows
up it goes viral and you're not giving
pe institutions or government enough
time to course correct. You know there
was a time where if you heard a news story
story >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> you called a friend and you vented your anger
anger
>> Yeah. and or your reaction or your
conspiracy theory like whatever happened
and you sort of did it to your friends,
you know, on the phone or or or
you know, in person and then you get it
all out and then you sort of become
rational again and you're like, well,
you know, let's just wait and see. You know,
know,
>> now there's no safe space for the um the
unhinged reactions or there's no safe
space for the for the knee-jerk
reactions. Now, we react in the place we
read it, which is usually in online and
social media. So, we react in the
comments or we post our own thing in
reaction and then everybody's reacting
to the reactions and we kind of forgot
what actually happened and we're all
sort of fighting about the reactions and
what people think. And so that, you
know, I I'm a I I I believe that if
every single social media had a one
minute delay,
>> like you hit post and it and then
there's a little clock that says 60, 59,
40, 58, and there was just a one minute
delay on every post, I bet half the
stuff we post wouldn't go up. We'd be
like, "Ah, maybe I won't put that." You
know, but once you put it out there and
people start reacting to your actions,
then we become super defensive.
>> Yeah. It's a funny thing, isn't it?
>> It is.
>> We don't trust anymore. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
But when we hear something that triggers
us, we don't investigate what's actually
happening. We just react to it. So, it's
ironic that we don't seem to trust
information or institutions, but we seem
to overly trust information that we're
hearing and not looking into.
>> Do you think we actually trust or do you
think it's we don't care about whether
we trust this information? Is it right
or wrong? We just want to give our
opinion. I mean, if I said something to
you that triggered you, you would have
an opinion. You would not be curious.
And so, it's easier to be judgmental
than curious because judgmental is instantaneous.
instantaneous.
Judgment is instantaneous. Curiosity
requires patience and slowing the system down.
down.
>> Um, curiosity requires asking questions
that challenge our own assumptions.
Curiosity requires us to be to
investigate legitimately,
not just find things that reinforce our
points of view. So judgment is fun.
Judgment is easy. Judgment is
entertaining. Judgment is emotional,
which makes it exciting. You know,
curiosity is
>> it's it's a longer it's a slower burn,
>> you know. You know, so I read things in
the news that there the government's
doing this or the government's doing
that and I I I can feel myself having an opinion.
opinion. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> To the headline. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And then I always say, well, why don't
you go find out
what the origins of this are or what
will happen or what won't happen? And
I'm looking in places that aren't
political. So, I'm not just looking at
what politicians or or social media
commentators are saying. I'm going and
reading articles and I'm going and
looking at historical documents. And by
the way, it it this takes minutes, not
hours, right? And instantly I'm like,
ah, it's not that bad, you know? Or,
ooh, I think that's worse than people think,
think,
>> you know.
>> Why do you think people are not even
investing 2 minutes, 3 minutes? They don't
don't
>> because we we we treat we treat the news
we treat social first of all, Instagram
and Tik Tok are the primary sources of
news today. Okay, that's number one. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Uh and because we treat the news like we
treat a dating app. It's like you look,
you swipe right, you swipe left, onto
the next.
>> And so you read a headline, you either
comment, you don't, you form an opinion,
onto the next, onto the next, onto the
next. I mean, it's it's it's
newsertainment, right? >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Who do you think whose fault is this?
>> It's ours. Everybody everybody's to blame.
blame.
>> Not the algorithms, not the platforms,
not these companies who have
>> of course of course they bear liability.
And if if if one of them if I hear
another one of them say, "Well, buy or
beware, you know, they can always not
use us." That's like telling a an addict
who's like, "Well, you have the choice
not to be a drinker or a smoker. You can
just stop." You be like, "Not
really." No. Especially when you have
teams of scientists figuring out
>> how to hijack our dopamine system to
keep us online for longer, you know,
infinite scroll and all the rest of it.
Um, of course they bear responsibility.
You know it's you can't remove them from
the chain of events. Now do they bear
all the responsibility? Of course not.
But of course they bear responsibility.
>> So what do we do now? Like how do we
bring it back? How do we bring this this
world where we used to trust each other
more? We used to trust people more. We
used to trust news more.
>> Yeah. Well, change starts at home,
right? Um, it's all fine and good to
complain about companies and complain
about the system or complain about the
government, but if we want to see and
feel change in our lives, then we have
to be the agents of change. And so, if
you want to feel trusted and trust more,
then start with your friends, start at
home, start start at work, learn to be a
trust, a trusted person. Um, I you know,
our our world is somewhat of a
reflection of us.
>> So, you said learn to become trusted
first. Yeah.
>> How can somebody do that? what are the
ingredients of trust?
>> Um, so I think so very often we confuse
trust and reliability. Um, you know,
simply doing what you say is a
component, but we've all have friends
that we trust that let us down and
sometimes we let other people down. Does
that mean all trust is violated? No. No.
It could be a step back, but it's not a
complete breakdown. Um, uh, trust comes
from psychological safety. It's the
feeling we get when we feel that someone
has our back. You know, none of us walk
around with a notebook in our back
pocket keeping track of all the things
our friends do for us and how many
things we do for our friends. You know,
uh uh my my I may do a hundred things
for my friends and my friends do nothing
for me, but I never say, "Well, you owe
me cuz this month, look at all the
things I did for you and you didn't do
anything for me." M
>> cuz I walk around with the um absolute
confidence that if if and when I need
them, I know without a doubt they'll be
there for me. And so I think that that
that psychological safety that's built
up over time and sometimes it happens
quickly and sometimes it happens slowly,
but it's and it's a dance, right? You
start with a little bit and you ask a
little more. And like I have friends
that are just for fun. My friend,
they're just fun. Do I rely on them? Do
I know they'd be there for me? No.
>> But I I love spending time with them.
And then I have friends who
that I know that I could call and no
matter what time of day or night they'll
be there for me. Um,
and so I think I think it's hard to
trust when you are not trusted. I think
I think that very often we we forget.
It's like being it's like being it's
like if I were to go to a a party and
sit in the corner by myself like this
with a scowl on my face and say people
are the worst. No, people are so
unfriendly. Not one person has come over
here and said hello to me and even
expressed any curiosity about me or my
life. I hate this place and I hate
everybody here. I'm like
like it starts with you sitting in the
corner by yourself with your arms folded
looking grumpy. Like
>> it it takes two. And so to to to put
yourself out there to be a trusted
person and and remember we don't build
trust by offering help. We build trust
by asking for it. And the ability to ask
for help and make yourself available to
say, "I don't know what I'm doing. I
don't I'm unsure." And give someone else
the the honor of getting to be there for
you. That's where it starts. It starts
by us taking uh the first step. By the
way, that's what leadership is. We call
you a leader not because you have rank.
We call you a leader because you went
first. You're the first to take the
risk. You're the first to run towards
danger. you're the first to uh admit you
don't know something or made a mistake,
you set the tone. That's what leader
means. And so if you want to lead the
way to building trust, then you have to
start by asking for help and you will
build trust.
>> Let's say there are friends who you
trust even though you don't talk to them
very often. Yes.
>> But you know that you can rely on them%
right. And there are people who you just
go out to have fun. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Right.
>> Right.
Unnecessarily not both of them must have
offered you help up front but still you
trust few people and you don't again
offered versus asked.
>> So you everybody goes like let me know
if you need any help like everybody says that
that >> exactly
>> exactly
>> right but how many friends call you and
say I'm stuck
>> and I don't mean a favor like I'm not
talking like hey you know can you put me
on your podcast? I'm not talking about
that's not asking for help. I'm talking
about like hey I'm I don't know what to
do and I don't know who else to call.
>> So are you saying that people who you
can trust they are the only like they've always
always
asked you first and that
>> no it's it's one of the ways in which
you build trust you could go first you
know and you give them the honor uh of
being there for you. Um so it doesn't
matter who starts but the relationship
has to start somewhere.
>> Then what's the difference between
people who you can versus who you can't
trust because they both are friends.
Some of it's based on timing. Some of
it's based on what you're going through,
what they're going through. Some of it's
based on values. Some of it's based on
how much sleep you got the night before.
I mean, like, I don't have a formula. I
can tell you some of the things that
would help. Like, I could tell you some
of the things that would help to have a
successful relationship, but at the end
of the day, there's certain intangibles that
some people you just click with and some
people you don't. So, I mean, if I'd
figured this out, yeah, I think we
forget this, which is human beings are messy
messy
and human beings are emotional and human
beings are irrational. And so I think we
over complicate what it means to be
human when we ask for scientific,
rational, highly structured checklists
in order to achieve an emotional goal
>> like trust or love or any of these feelings.
feelings.
Like again, I can tell you some best
practices. I can tell you some things
that will probably contribute, but I
also have friends where a lot of those
things flew out the window and we love
each other and trust each other. So, you
know, again, I can tell you some of the
things that would help, but you're we
can't we can't apply too much structure
to an emotional, irrational, messy situation,
situation, >> right?
>> right?
>> That's part of the magic and annoying
things about people. You know, there are
a lot of times where
you deal with a messy person and that
person breaks your trust. So you like a
lot of people I've heard and they say it
often that they instantly go in that
mode where now they're trusting no one.
What do you think is worse? Is trusting
a wrong person worse or trusting nobody
for life? We know the answer to that
one. Of course, trusting no one is the
wrong answer. Okay, you got burned. But
if you build a wall around you because
you were afraid of being hurt, you will.
It's like people who say, "I'm not going
to fall in love ever again cuz I got
hurt that one time." It's like, well,
then you're going to live a lonely life
and an unhappy life. Like, yes, everyone
has had trust violated. Every one of us.
Every one of us has violated trust.
We've we've also been the the uh we've
been the victims and we've been the the
the the causes of those messy
situations. And we've been defensive
even though we know we're wrong. And
other people have defense been defensive
even though everybody knows that they're
wrong. It's like accountability becomes
a big part of it. And I think trust is
not about getting everything right or
getting everything wrong. A huge part of
building trust is being accountable for
when you get things right or when you
get things wrong. Right? And that's part
of creating that psychological safety,
which is if somebody accuses me of
violating trust, even though I may be
defensive because it hurts to hear, at
some point I'm going to have to get to
the point sooner rather than later, you
know, even if it's the next day to be
like, you know what, I was thinking
about what you're telling me and you're
right. I I let you down and I and I
didn't communicate and I was rude and I
was defensive and that's not right and
I'm sorry. Like that's a huge thing.
Accountability is a huge part of
building trust. Something like 70% of
medical malpractices are simply because
the doctor refused to apologize, you
know. Um so I think when when people are
willing to take responsibility for their
words and for their actions, it makes us
more want to trust them even knowing
that they get things wrong. You know,
one one more thing that we never learn
apart from trust like how to trust and
more and more young people now because
they're losing trust because of
information overload and all these
things that we talked about that we're
not even becoming the person. One thing
which is also bothering is we never even
learn how to sit with ourselves now to
how to be idle, how to be bored. So we
don't reflect and that's why we don't
even think that how to become a better
person. What do you think happens with
an entire generation when the generation doesn't
doesn't
really learn to sit alone? They're just
So,
it's like when you bake bread, you have
to let it prove. You have to let it
rise. You have to just let it be. You
can't just mix the ingredients in a
bowl, knead the dough, and throw it in
the oven, you know? You have to let the
yeast rise. And I think we undervalue we
undervalue boredom. But it's partially
because we've overindexed on making, you
know, we care about productivity too
much. We all think that you're doing
well if you're productive and you're not
doing well if you're unproductive. I
used to I used to I used to wake up on a
weekend at like 8 or 8:30 in the morning
and then sit and build till noon. I just
like read the newspaper, play do a cross
word puzzle, send a few texts. And like
people get mad at me. They're like, "How
how can you just waste your day like
that?" I was like, "First of all, it's
my day. I can do whatever I want. And
second of all, maybe that time alone
where I'm not engaging and just getting
to do things that my brain enjoys like
the cross word puzzle or listening to
music. I would sit in bed and just
listen to music.
Maybe that's good for me. Maybe that
makes me healthier. Like just cuz I'm le
not productive. You know, you know the
story of the two lumberjacks.
Every morning they both start cutting
wood at the same time. Every day they
stop cutting wood at the same time. And
every day in the middle of the day, one
lumberjack disappears for an hour. And
every day that lumberjacks cuts more
woods than the other one. Cuts more wood
than the other one. And so one day after
months of this, the lumberjack who works
all day, he says, "I have to ask you.
Every day we start work at the same
time. Every day we stop work at the same
time. Every day you disappear for one
hour in the middle of the day. And every
day you cut more wood than me. where do
you go for that hour? And the other
lumberjack looks up and goes, "Oh, I go
home and sharpen my axe." And so working
all the time doesn't necessarily make
you more productive. Taking breaks and
sharpening your axe makes you more
productive. And um we don't allow our
minds to wander because of constant
engagement. And we know like anybody
who's ever had an idea, you rarely have
the idea in the brainstorming session.
Usually the brainstorming session is
valuable for posing the question or
presenting the challenge,
>> but we usually have our best ideas in
the shower
>> or when we go for a run
>> or we're sitting in the car driving to
work or we're sitting on the bus and
we're just looking out the window and
all of a sudden you're like,
>> I have it. And you come to work and like
I I have it. I have it. I have it.
Right? Well, what's going on there? And
it's because our our rational brains,
our uh uh our rational brains, our
conscious brains have access to the
equivalent of about 2 ft of information
around us. This is the part of the brain
we access when we access our expertise.
We weigh the pros and cons. We think
about the problem. All the stuff we do
in the brainstorming session.
Um but our subconscious brains have
access to the equivalent of something
like 11 acres of information. every
question, every movie, every book gets
stored somewhere.
>> But you can't consciously access that
part of the brain. So when you allow
your brain to just ruminate, now it
won't ruminate about anything. It'll
only ruminate about challenges,
opportunities, or questions that are
right in front of you. But when you
allow your brain to ruminate, it finds
connections that your thinking brain doesn't.
doesn't.
>> And so standing in the shower is a, you
know, you can't be on your phone. That's
why you're having an idea. When you're
driving, you can't be on your phone. you
shouldn't be on your phone. You know,
that's why you have an idea. Your your
mind just wanders. And so the idea of
doing nothing
that we're seem to be afraid of lack of
productivity and lack of boredom. In
reality, what we're doing is our we're
allowing our minds to wander.
>> And I I carve out time for this. I'll go
for a walk without my phone. I'll go to
a museum. I'll put my phone in airplane
mode. And I'll just walk around and look
at art. Now, it doesn't always happen
that I solve a problem, but I'm
increasing the likelihood. So, one of
the ways I have ideas is I build in what
you would call boredom. Time to do
things that are engaging or disengaging
in different ways. Listening to music.
So, um yeah, I think we undervalue
boredom as a source of ideas.
>> There was a research in 2014 that people
were asked to sit alone and sit idle and
about 67% people said that they'd rather
have electric shocks than to be sit
sitting alone. That's funny.
>> It happened in 2014. What do you think?
Where have we reached today?
>> I mean, I think we are afraid of doing
nothing. You can see it. You know, when
you go to for dinner and your friend
goes to the bathroom, what's the first
thing you do?
>> Take out your phone. Cuz god forbid you
should just sit in the restaurant and
look around.
>> You know, you get on the bus, what's the
first thing you do? Take out your phone.
>> You sit You're We just saw it driving here.
here.
>> I'm sitting at a red light. I look over
at the car next to me. What's the driver
doing at a red light
>> on the phone? Yeah. Like
it looks and feels like an addiction
>> because that's what it is, right? Every
gap I've got, I've got to fill it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I I'm on my phone in the
bathroom. I'm on my phone when the TV
commercial comes on. I'm on the phone if
I'm bored watching the movie. I'm on the
phone like it's in bed. I'm in the
phone. The first thing I do when I wake
up, you know? And there's nothing wrong
with any of those things unless you feel
like you have to do it all of the time.
Like if you're looking for your phone
before you go to the toilet,
>> you know, like and these are all it I
mean it's a dopamine addiction and it
most closely resembles a gambling addiction.
addiction.
>> But it's it's addictive behavior.
>> Do you think because of this we are
losing our ability to think originally?
Like almost there are no original
thinkers because original thinking
requires some sort of friction, some
sort of discomfort, some kind of chaos,
like some kind of just sitting alone and
being comfortable.
>> It's a good question. I don't think
that's the only reason. I think the
other reason is what's happened in
media, you know, which is there's
there's fewer bets, you know, ever, you
know, when institutional money gets
involved in the media business, it's
this is why we see so many franchises
and remakes, it's because the the risk,
they're managing risk. And I think when
you make art and when you have an idea,
you let go of that risk profile to some
degree. It was a different risk profile.
Um, you know, it would have been much
easier for me as a career after I wrote
Start with Y and had success with my
first book to just franchise it,
serialize it. You know, start with Y for
chefs, start with Y for parents, start
with Y for dentists, right? Like I could
have written book after book after book
after book and you know, maybe they
would do well. Who knows? But
but for me though, that would be the
low-risk high probability of success
option. But uh
I I that's not why I do things. And I I
I'm not a businessman. I'm an artist.
>> So I kind of have an artist's approach
to things, which is
the desire to make things that I don't
know how to make. The desire to learn
things I don't know how they work. The
desire to solve problems I don't know
how to solve. I like things that make my
head hurt. Um
but that's a different risk profile.
Um I think both have their place in an
economy but to your point is the is the
balance being lopsided to to one way or
the other and the answer is of course
and then you look at the way businesses
and startups are happening right which
is it used to be that if you have a
private business you had more freedom
than a public company because of you
didn't have the pressure from from from
the investor community. But now you look
at private businesses and the mount of
venture capital and private equity that
are in private businesses they're as bad
as public companies. the pressure is
overwhelming for short-term results
because the business models of the
venture capitalist is they need to get
their money out in, you know, 3 to five,
five to seven years and they're not
interested in a company to build it for
20 years. Um, uh, and so and so if you
everybody wants to know what the growth
plan is, what the scalability is, well,
not everything is growable at high speed
and not everything is instantly
scalable. And they're still good
businesses. There might be smaller
businesses, but they're still good
businesses. And we're so obsessed with
the wrong metrics. I mean, you talk to
young entrepreneurs and they're more
obsessed with telling you what their
growth is or or which venture capitalist
gave them money. I mean, even the way
we've defined a unicorn, a unicorn used
to be defined as a company with a
billion dollars in revenues. Now, it's a
company defined as the billion dollar
valuation. Valuations are made up.
uh a billion, right? And somebody goes,
"Yeah." And then there you go. You're a
unicorn, right?
>> Revenue, you can actually count that money.
money.
>> And so why did we change the definition
of a of a unicorn? Because it's all
speculative now, right? It's all
speculative. And so, you know, I think
one of the So, it's not I think one of
the reasons we see
it's and again, it's risk profile. When
a venture capitalist is weighing the
risk of their investment, they they
would like to see something that's
scalable with a with a fast growth thing
because it protects their investment. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but that disallows for um
um
it disallows for art projects and
sometimes art projects are worth it and
beautiful and a lot of businesses
started off more like an art project
which was it was the curiosity of the
founder to solve a problem. you know,
Richard Branson and Virgin just trying
to make a thing that didn't exist for himself,
himself,
>> you know? >> True.
>> True.
>> And like a lot of them, though, though
they solve real problems, the the
business model came a little bit later.
>> Wouldn't it be cool if is how a lot a
lot of these great great great companies
started. you know, even Facebook,
wouldn't it be cool if versus, you know,
I think I could make a billion with and
again they have their place, but the
balance is wrong. Should don't you think
it should be opposite because now
there's more capital available. There
are more options for you to actually put
out your work without the approval of
some institution.
There are more opportunities for a young
person like me or anyone who's watching
that they can be more artistic, they can
be more original
and yet they are choosing not to be
original and not to be artistic. Why do
we why are we losing people like that?
Ask the algorithm.
I was I mean when you add money to an
equation, it changes everything, right?
There was um this is a real case. There
was two young content makers who would
do crazy videos cuz and they put them on
YouTube and that was their income,
YouTube, you know, dollars and
and
the they did a video where he held a dictionary,
dictionary,
a big thick dictionary on his chest and
she took out a gun and shot him thinking
that the dictionary would stop the
bullet. It was a a stunt they did for
views. Well, turns out she killed him.
shot him right through the heart through
the dictionary. Okay. And it it was it
was an accident of monumentally
stupid proportions, epic proportions
because they were so driven by the need
to do something more and more outlandish
for the views that logic
was put aside. And so yeah, I was at an
event once. I was sitting waiting for a
concert to start and this girl comes
down the stairs and some guy is taking
pictures of her and she's doing all her
posing and the person next to me nudges
me and goes, "She's a famous
influencer." And I responded cynically,
"You mean she's a freelance employee of
an algorithm?"
And that's largely what a lot of content
creation is, is you're a freelance
employee of an algorithm. You work for
the algorithm, which is why you can't
take a day off and you can't take a
vacation because if you do, the
algorithm is not happy. My boss likes
you to work all the time. And so, and if
they you saw what happened with YouTube
when they changed their algorithm and it
offended affected people's income, they
showed up at the YouTube headquarters
with a gun because you took away all my
income. And so, we've just stopped
working for people and started working
for algorithms. And so, are you asking
me, you know, shouldn't people make all
their money? Shouldn't they, you know,
sort of make all their own content and
be creative? Sure. But the minute you
include money and the minute you're
working for the algorithm, then then
you're no longer working for the
creativity anymore. You're working for
the algorithm. I think the origin
stories are a lot a lot of these are pure.
pure.
>> You know, it's like the first book, the
first video, the first thing that goes
viral, that was pure.
>> That was the art.
>> But the minute somebody says, "I'll put
you on television. I'll give you money.
I'll give you a sponsorship." The
pressures are great. And we know this,
the data shows this that influencers
aren't actually that influential. You
know, the because once they start doing
things for money, everybody gets a
little bit cynical. They're just doing
it for money, right?
>> Um but it's a it's a hustle culture,
right? Even the concept of selling out,
young generations today, first of all,
they don't even know what that means.
When you say, "Gh, he's such a sellout."
Like young people like literally don't
know what that means. And if you
explain, well, they decided to just take
the money as opposed to have a high high
integrity. And young people will say to
me, yeah, it's their IP. They should
make money. Like the idea of exploiting
yourself at least is better than being
exploited. Um, I'm exploiting myself for
money. But it's not a very happy way to
live. I don't think at some point it all
of these things have shelf lives. >> Again,
>> Again,
I think as an artist, and Rick Rubin
talks about this, right? When you start working
working
for the approval of others,
it destroys art. And art is when you
trust your own taste and you accept the
risk that the world may or may not like
this. And that's okay. And then you'll
try again. But as long as you're pure to
yourself, if you have a talent or you
have a taste, that's the root of art.
That's the risk. This is why art has a
high risk profile.
>> Experience sellout. You said people
don't understand. Explain in simple
Okay, I'll just use myself as a as an
example. So, I've built a public
reputation, right? I have a public life
now. I'm in the world. I have good
followings on all my socials and sell
books and all of that good stuff. And
then all of a sudden, you see me making
a commercial.
I'm on like a TV commercial for, you
know, plumbing supplies and then I'm on
another TV commercial selling you
deodorant and then I'm and everybody's
looking going, "What? It Why is Simon
selling plumbing supplies and
deodorant?" Like, it makes no sense. And
you ask me, "Why'd you do it?" I'm like,
"Well, you should see what they paid
me." That's a sellout. You put aside
your movement. You put aside your
beliefs. You put aside your ethics and
you just take the paycheck. You exploit
the thing you've built for money.
That's selling out.
>> What has helped you stay like this? What
What helped you stay pure?
>> I'm not very good at business. Is that obvious?
Oh,
>> sure. That's not the only reason. I
you know there have been certain people
in my life that have inspired me and I I
got to know people in the military
pretty young like the same year that I
first publicly articulated the golden
circle and start with why. many years
before a book, many years before any TED
talk. That same year, by sheer
coincidence, I got introduced to the the
United States Air Force. And I got to
know some people who devoted their lives
to service. And I very quickly realized
that my two favorite people on the
planet are military and artists because
they're the exact same human being. We
assume that their politics are opposite
because one is in defense and one is in
the arts. First of all, don't make such
assumptions. People have different
politics in all different ways of life.
Okay, so that's number one. But they're
the exact same human being. Both of
them, whether they knew it from the
beginning or they discovered it later
on, what they do becomes a calling. They
can't not do it, right? Secondly, they
both know that they're not going to get
rich doing what they're doing. They both
know that. They both make tremendous
sacrifices to do what they do. And in
both cases, a 100% of the product that
they make is for the benefit of others.
And you see the way that artists are
with artists. And you see the way that
military with military and there's a
brotherhood and a sisterhood. You know,
you and I have colleagues and co-workers
in the military. They have brothers and
sisters and they mean it. That's what
those relationships are. And the first
time one of my friends in uniform called
me brother, it meant something. Hey,
brother. Right. It wasn't just being polite.
polite.
>> Like they don't throw that term around
loosely. I got to spend some time with
the Navy Seals and we we were talking
about I wanted to understand the culture
and why those guys are so intense and
why they're so effective. And one of the
reasons they're so effective is not
because they're individually amazing.
It's because they're it's their ability
to work as a team. And you look at all
the special operators, the Army Rangers,
you know, Delta Force, you know, SEALs,
you know, you know, the PJs, like all of
these the Marine Raiders, all of these
special operators, right? One of the
reasons that they're so incredible is
because they're effective teams that
they're able to put them their
individuality aside for the good of the
team. And what we what we see as courage,
courage,
and I can only speak to the Navy Seals,
but I assume it's the same for all of
them. What we see as courage is actually
something quite more sophisticated and
more beautiful, which is they're
actually more afraid of letting down
their teammates than they are of dying.
They're more afraid of letting down the team
team
>> than dying.
That's why they're so good. It's because
the commitment to the team and the
success of the team. And if you look in
the private sector, we're committed to
ourselves and the success of me. And
very few of us will take a risk or have
any desire for any kind of
self-sacrifice for the good of the team.
And I saw these relationships and I
envied them. I came from the corporate
world and I had no relationships like
that. I envied the brotherhood. They
don't even necessarily like each other,
but they trust each other. And I envied
that and I wanted that. And so some of
them become became my friends and I
learned from them. And and and
then we this takes us right back to the
beginning, which is why are we so selfish?
selfish?
>> Well, look at all the incentive
structures. All the incentive structures
around us reward us for individuality.
We've heroized CEOs. We've heroized
personalities on the screen. We've
heroized um uh uh influencers. They're
all individuals who who either actually
believe that they're heroes or like to
present themselves as such. And the
reward structures reinforce it. We have
an entire class of people who want to be
on reality TV shows. I mean, I was
watching one of these reality TV shows
the other day. My my niece was watching
a show and I was just watching with her
and the way they put their personal
lives on public display. There's cameras
in the room while they're like having a
breakup or something or talking about
cheating on their spouse. And you're
like, what motivates somebody to want to
air all of their laundry in public? And
you're like, the driver is very simple. Fame.
Fame.
They value fame more than privacy,
right? And I guess good for them. I
mean, it's highly entertaining for us, but
but
that's the the incentive structure that
we offer that we will make you rich and
famous if you're willing
>> to humiliate your family.
Cuz I was thinking about it. It's like
the poor person who this woman was
cheating on, he he's not on the TV show,
but everybody else is watching who knows him.
him.
>> Yeah. and his family didn't agree to be
on the TV show and his friends didn't
agree to be on the TV show. But her
desire to be rich and famous was more
important than any of those things. And
that's the world we live in. And the TV
studios don't care and the producers
don't care cuz that's it. So whatever.
And I I was I remember I did an
interview once. I was on a documentary
and they gave me a a a release to sign,
>> right? And it was a standard release for
a reality TV show. And it literally
said, "We reserve the right to edit this
in any way we want, even if it changes
the meaning of your words, even if it
like it paints you in a bad light." And
I'm reading this document. I'm like
going through it and crossing everything
out. And they they got mad at me.
They're like, "You can't cross all this
out. Nobody else has crossed it out."
I'm like, "Nobody else read it." Right?
But I'm literally reading the release
that gives the producers total control
how how to edit it. So they can decide
you're going to be the the bad person.
We're going to edit it to so you're the
bad person.
So the incentive structure all screwed
up. The reward systems are all screwed up.
up.
>> And in the military the reward system is humility.
humility.
I'll give you a real life example.
So, there was an incident on base where
uh some young officers went out drinking
off base, which is fine.
And they were fratinizing with a young
enlisted woman. And officers enlisted
aren't allowed to because it it breaks
the the the chain of it's bad, right?
One of them was dating one of the
officers was dating one of the enlisted,
which is not allowed.
So, that was number one. They all came
back to base and they knew that they
were drinking and they were afraid that
they would get pulled over for drunk
driving on base. So the officers said to
the young enlisted woman, "You drive."
So now there's a power dynamic. Okay? So
she drives, they start driving on base.
They get pulled over by the cops and she
gets breathalyzed and she gets arrested
for being over the limit. Okay?
It all comes out. What happens now?
They're these officers are in a very
very elite program. a very elite
program. And now they're all in trouble.
>> Okay. For many reasons.
And their senior officer, the colonel,
had had to bring them into his office
one by one to tell them that they've
probably ruined their careers, right?
That they have to be thrown out of the program.
program.
Now, if you and I were in charge, we
would probably say something like, "What
the hell were you thinking? How can you
be so stupid? You've destroyed your
career. What were you thinking? You know
better. That's what we would say. It's
about the individual.
That's not what the colonel said. What
the colonel said was, "Do you have any
idea how many people you've let down?
You've let down your senior officers who
nominated you for this program. You've
let down your parents
who raised you.
You've let down all of your colleagues
who supported you through this program.
you've let me down. Do you have any idea
how many people you've let down? That's
how they got in trouble. So immediately
you see the thing that they that they
value more than anything else is the
espreda core. It's the team. It's the
camaraderie. It's the commitment to the other,
other,
>> not just to yourself.
>> And so even the way they get in trouble
reinforces the commitment to team.
I know, you know, they're so like
humility is a is a is a valued commodity
that when you meet the really really
really really talented leaders in the
military like they are amazing
and you say to them, "Oh my god, you're
so amazing." They all say the same
thing. It's not just me. I've got a team
of people around me. In the business
world, people are like, "Thank you.
Thanks." you know, we're encouraged to
take the credit. We're in the military.
They're encouraged to to distribute the credit.
credit.
>> Do you think it's because
earlier you had the whole map in front
of you? Like you're born, then you got
to take the right job, then marry, then
have a have a partner, have a wife,
settle down. Like there was a structured
way of doing things. You were not asking
yourself question and not even getting
disturbed here and there. Like there was
always a map. And today there are no
maps. There's no certain way to do
certain things. And that's why people
are confused. So they don't have an
identity and they are just chasing
things which probably were coming out of
their insecurities. It's an interesting question.
question.
It's an interesting proposition.
I think it goes back to what we were
saying a moment ago, which is it's about belonging,
belonging,
right? I'm not so sure
that the map was clear, but there were
definitely circumstances that allowed
for the opportunity to belong to
something bigger than yourself. So, in
World War II, more young men died by
suicide who didn't get called to action
than who did because the shame of not
being included and belonging to the war
effort. And if you even look at the war
effort, you either joined. And if you
couldn't join or you weren't eligible to
join or you were too old or something,
then you bought war bonds to support the
war effort. And if you couldn't afford a
war bond, you planted a war garden,
which didn't do anything, but it made
you feel like you were a part of it.
>> And so, you know, after September 11th,
we saw lots of people quit their their
jobs, be like, "My job is stupid." And
they joined the military. They did
something that made them feel like
they're contributing to something bigger
than themselves. So I'm not so sure that
I would subscribe to the fact that there
was a path. I'm not sure I subscribe to
that logic, but I do subscribe to the
logic that there was something that pro
provided an opportunity to be a part of
something. And so what you're describing
as the path was a means to get to that thing.
thing. And
And
um and even in the 50s and 60s, you
know, that was a family. That was the
path to being part of something bigger
than yourself. you sort of sort of the
traditional home, you know, man goes to
job, woman stays home and raises kids,
you know, that there was there was
there was a a mechanism to be a part of
something bigger than yourself that I
have to work hard for the for the good
of others, right?
right?
And uh for various reasons
that those things evaporated
evaporated
even the the the collapse of the Soviet
Union and and the end of Cold War 1.0
um cuz we're in Cold War 2.0 now but the
end of Cold War 1.0 know at least if you
did something you felt like there was I
was a even if I was part of this country
I was a part of something bigger than
myself you know and I think to your point
point
it goes right back to where we were
where are the places or institutions
that I can go to where I can feel like I
I'm I get to contribute to something
bigger than me because the only other
alternative is to contribute to me which
is what we all seem to be doing and
I think that's true I think there's a
lack of belonging and and companies all
have purpose statements. Thank goodness
that's a I mean that's my work. It's a
step in the right direction. But most of
them don't believe it. It's just marketing.
marketing. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Um you know at least the movement is
working that they have public pressure
to do it. But now you have to actually
follow it. And companies don't have
long-term plans now. They don't have
5-year plans and if they do they're not
following them. And so there is no
bigger longer you know it's only shorter
and faster. Um so I think that's true. I
think what you're describing as the path
I think is is a symptom of a lack of
things or places or institutions we can
go to where we feel like we're part of
something bigger. I think that's a true statement
statement
>> and because of this then we join certain
companies in the beginning because we are
are
fresh we believe in the purpose that
probably is just on the wall and then
just few days of working in probably few
years of working in we have this some
sort of quarter life crisis like at 25
we are thinking about a crisis because
we don't feel belonged we don't feel
we're cherished we don't think our
incentives are actually aligned with the
company and more and more people Now
midlife crisis have become quarterlife
crisis. So what do they do when the
world is changing so fast and the
meaning is just getting lost. So what
should young people do? I I think you
have to choose to be the leader you wish
you had which is remember we said at the
beginning that trust was built not by
asking for help by off but by offering
it. So instead of going I need someone
to give me the ability to belong to
something bigger like if you can find
that more power to you but that's not a
strategy. Mhm.
>> What is a strategy is making the choice
to give the people to the left of you
and the people to the right of you the
feeling that they're a part of something
bigger. And even though you might work
for a soulless short-term driven public company,
company,
you can come to work and say that's
true, but our team
our team it's about us. It's about
taking care of each other. It's about
committing to see each of us helping
each of us grow. Because I think that's
what a successful corporate culture is.
a group of people who agree to grow
together and commit to making sure that
the other people on my team are
successful. And you can find a sense of
belonging and that sense of purpose in a
small group of people inside a larger
dysfunctional system. Absolutely. But
you have to choose to be the leader you
wish you had. And you have to go on that
journey of education how to be that
leader. Doesn't happen overnight. It's
like I think I'm going to become a high
performer swimmer.
>> Well, you can't just jump in the pool
and it happens. like you have to train
and learn and get a coach and read about
it and watch videos and it's the same.
You got to go on a learning journey and
um and it's bumpy and uncomfortable and
sometimes you get you swallow water and
you're humiliated and you know sometimes
it goes well and sometimes it goes badly
but it's worth it you know when I get
inspired by looking at these things and
probably a lot of people do by hearing
certain things like that I have an
opportunity to inspire left right
belonging all of that and then I go home
I sit on my phone and I swap and then I
just keep looking at algorithm looking
at somebody at 19 is like a billionaire
22 is doing this 25 is doing that and at
25 I already feel like I've left I'm
left behind
how do I get out of this feeling which
is a feeling for majority of people that
they feel that they've left behind even
before they've started you competing with
with
who are you competing with I'm going to
ask you a question I want you to ask me
honestly is there somebody who does
something similar than you that has more
money than you. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Is there somebody is are there
other men about your age who are better
looking than you? >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Um are there people who do
podcasts like this one who have more followers?
followers? >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> Okay. So, what's the problem? We've
accepted that you're not number one. Who
gives a Great. What do what what
does number one mean? What does winning
mean? You're playing the wrong game.
Like, so there's always somebody out
there that you can always find
who's better than you. It depends what
metric you're looking at. So if I look
at book sales, I can show you an author
who who blows me out of the water and
I'll be like, "Oh my god, I'm a
failure." But if I look at Instagram
following for the same person, oh my
god, I'm destroying him. So should I be
high and mighty on myself because one
metric says I'm the Mac Daddy, or should
I be depressed because the other metric
says I'm failing?
It depends where you look. What do you
like? There's no winning. We haven't
agreed on what the metrics are. You've
chosen one arbitrary metric and decided
that you're a failure. It's ridiculous,
right? Worry about yourself.
Let them worry about themselves.
Like, we can all be successful at the
same time. There's plenty of people to
listen to podcasts. There's plenty of
people to buy books. People can listen
to more than one podcast. They can buy
more than one book. There's no winning
and losing in this game. And so when you
set up a finite construction of a winner
or a loser in a game that has no winners
and losers, you will always feel like
you're failing. And if you are ahead for
a minute, it's temporary. And then
you're playing defense and you're
desperately afraid of losing it.
So you're playing the wrong game. It's
the wrong mindset. Nobody wins career.
Nobody wins business. Nobody wins
health. Nobody wins family. Nobody wins
health uh uh fitness doesn't exist.
There's no number one in any of those
things. So, how can you set up the
construction of I'm losing or I'm behind
in a game that we haven't all agreed
what the rules are?
>> True. So,
worry about yourself. Say to yourself,
am I doing better today than I did
yesterday? Am I a better human being
today than I was yesterday? Am I a
better leader today than I was
yesterday? Am I making better content
today than I was yesterday? Worry about
the race against yourself. Compete
against you. That's the best competitor.
That's the only success metric to look for
for
>> in the infinite game. If you're playing
cricket, then yeah, worry about beating
the other team
>> because there's no definition out there.
It felt it feels like
when I like when you speak to people who
are my parents' generation, they all
have like some sort of success
definition which is like laid out. I
think the way that our parents defined
it was get a good job, work hard, do
well, provide for your family, make sure
that your kids are good and taken care of,
of,
make sure you're looking after your spouse.
spouse.
>> We're good. I mean, you come from a
place where arranged marriages were like
I mean, still pretty popular, but for a
long time like pretty much the only
thing. And arranged marriages have very
low divorce rates, which surprises
people. It's cuz you're like, "Okay,
we're doing this. I'm going to I'm going
to do the best I can." Which is a very
selfless way of approaching a relationship,
relationship,
>> you know? Whereas the selfish ones like,
"Okay, are you good enough for me? I
chose you." you know
uh yeah arranged marriages have lower
divorce rates than than unarranged
marriages which I find fascinating
>> but it has to do a fact with that in a
lot of cultures in India specifically
divorce is not even a thing
so maybe it's not just aran marriages
have le lesser divorce rate it also
means because for a long time there was
nothing like divorce and even today the
social structure doesn't allow you to
get divorced very easily
>> so look there's neither answer is 100%
right like if is if something is really
unhappy and really dysfunctional, then
there should be a mechanism to get out
of it. Of course, right? Like we're not
saying unhappy people should stay
together, but there is some sort of like
let's work through this and see if we
can get through it. I was just talking
to a friend of mine yesterday who's
married and her marriage is going
through it went through a really really
rocky patch like
through because of family reasons like
he was not the person she married. It
was bad and she just committed to
sticking with it and she just committed
to trying to work through it. And now
they're really good. They're really
good. But she had to commit to have
about a year or two years of awful,
but she believed in him and she believed
in the relationship.
And so there's a patience component as
well that goes with it, right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um,
Um,
I mean maybe maybe the correlary, you
know, I hear this all the time in the
military, you know, they don't get to
pick their teams. It's like you're the
leader of the team that they gave you. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Where in business we like we we we get
to pick our teams, right? But maybe not
picking your team is not so bad. >> Yeah. When you look at America and when
>> Yeah. When you look at America and when you look at India, America what I
you look at India, America what I understand from the look of it at least
understand from the look of it at least >> is
>> is >> more people are driven individually with
>> more people are driven individually with their just thinking about themselves and
their just thinking about themselves and taking decision based on what they would
taking decision based on what they would like or how they would see themselves
like or how they would see themselves winning or losing in the in the life
winning or losing in the in the life >> versus India
>> versus India you make a collective decision you
you make a collective decision you almost you don't want to disappoint your
almost you don't want to disappoint your family so you take their decision into
family so you take their decision into consideration you want to disappoint the
consideration you want to disappoint the religion or the culture or the society
religion or the culture or the society that you come from. You don't want to
that you come from. You don't want to disappoint that. So every decision is
disappoint that. So every decision is not just yourself.
not just yourself. >> It's like you have to take decision
>> It's like you have to take decision which is combined. What do you think?
which is combined. What do you think? Which one's a better approach?
Which one's a better approach? >> The answer is both have their strengths
>> The answer is both have their strengths and both have their weaknesses. That's
and both have their weaknesses. That's it.
it. >> That's it. There there were there are
>> That's it. There there were there are benefits and detractors to both systems.
benefits and detractors to both systems. So the question is is which system would
So the question is is which system would you rather be a part of? So you either
you rather be a part of? So you either stay where you are or immigrate,
stay where you are or immigrate, >> right? Like to idolize one system over
>> right? Like to idolize one system over another is foolish. That's like saying
another is foolish. That's like saying I'm a better person than you. Well,
I'm a better person than you. Well, that's ridiculous, right? I have some
that's ridiculous, right? I have some strengths and I I have some character. I
strengths and I I have some character. I don't believe in strengths and
don't believe in strengths and weaknesses. I believe in characteristics
weaknesses. I believe in characteristics and attributes.
and attributes. >> There's some ways I there are some
>> There's some ways I there are some talents I have, some gifts I have, some
talents I have, some gifts I have, some strengths I have. And every one of those
strengths I have. And every one of those things have benefits to me and they have
things have benefits to me and they have uh detriments to me.
uh detriments to me. Right? And the opportunity I have is to
Right? And the opportunity I have is to put myself in situations where those
put myself in situations where those characteristics and attributes are more
characteristics and attributes are more likely to show up as strengths.
likely to show up as strengths. >> So for example, okay, I think out loud,
>> So for example, okay, I think out loud, right? So put me on a stage and people
right? So put me on a stage and people get to watch me think out loud. Put me
get to watch me think out loud. Put me on a podcast and ask me a couple
on a podcast and ask me a couple questions and you just wind up wind me
questions and you just wind up wind me up and off I go. H that shows up pretty
up and off I go. H that shows up pretty well. Like this characteristic attribute
well. Like this characteristic attribute shows up as a strength in a context like
shows up as a strength in a context like this one. put me in a meeting. I talk
this one. put me in a meeting. I talk too much. That's I always get that
too much. That's I always get that feedback. Simon, let other people talk
feedback. Simon, let other people talk in the meeting. But I'm just thinking,
in the meeting. But I'm just thinking, but I'm talking. And so, is it a
but I'm talking. And so, is it a strength or a weakness? The answer is
strength or a weakness? The answer is depends on the context,
depends on the context, >> right? And so to say which system is
>> right? And so to say which system is better is is a fake question.
better is is a fake question. It's what are the benefits and and and
It's what are the benefits and and and and detriments of each system and where
and detriments of each system and where do I want to be? What where would I
do I want to be? What where would I thrive? And that's why immigration and
thrive? And that's why immigration and immigration happens, right? Like if
immigration happens, right? Like if you're very entrepreneurial and you're
you're very entrepreneurial and you're living in a society that's not
living in a society that's not entrepreneurial, then you should move
entrepreneurial, then you should move somewhere that's entrepreneurial. You'll
somewhere that's entrepreneurial. You'll fit in better. You'll feel like you
fit in better. You'll feel like you belong. I found my people,
belong. I found my people, right? It's like New York City is the
right? It's like New York City is the island of misfit toys. Like everyone who
island of misfit toys. Like everyone who doesn't feel like they belong wherever
doesn't feel like they belong wherever they grew up, they all feel like they
they grew up, they all feel like they belong in New York.
belong in New York. Um, so it's it's not a it's not a
Um, so it's it's not a it's not a question of which one's better. It's a
question of which one's better. It's a question of where do you where do you
question of where do you where do you belong?
belong? >> You know, you you mentioned cold cold
>> You know, you you mentioned cold cold war 2.0.
war 2.0. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> What do you mean by that?
>> What do you mean by that? >> Well, the cold war
>> Well, the cold war uh cold war exists on three tensions.
uh cold war exists on three tensions. There's an an existential tension like
There's an an existential tension like are we going to survive? Are we going to
are we going to survive? Are we going to live or not? In the case of cold war
live or not? In the case of cold war 1.0, the two largest nuclear powers in
1.0, the two largest nuclear powers in the world were the United States and
the world were the United States and Soviet Union. Then there's a
Soviet Union. Then there's a philosophical tension. Uh there you have
philosophical tension. Uh there you have two philosoph uh two views of the world
two philosoph uh two views of the world and they're both looking for for buyers
and they're both looking for for buyers for customers. Democracy and capitalism
for customers. Democracy and capitalism um versus Soviet style communism. Our
um versus Soviet style communism. Our alliances were super simple back then.
alliances were super simple back then. If you're a communist, we're not friends
If you're a communist, we're not friends with you. Tada. Right? So there's
with you. Tada. Right? So there's philosophical competition,
philosophical competition, ideological competition, and then the
ideological competition, and then the final was economic competition. Um uh
final was economic competition. Um uh both the United States and the Soviet
both the United States and the Soviet Union were the two largest economies in
Union were the two largest economies in the world. And so you'll find that
the world. And so you'll find that the desire to pay any price and bear any
the desire to pay any price and bear any burden exists always on these three
burden exists always on these three tensions. Life, philosophy, and
tensions. Life, philosophy, and economics. And they were all
economics. And they were all conveniently colllocated in a single
conveniently colllocated in a single nation called the Soviet Union. Well,
nation called the Soviet Union. Well, the Soviet Union went bankrupt. And the
the Soviet Union went bankrupt. And the biggest mistake that the United States
biggest mistake that the United States and the West made of the 20th century
and the West made of the 20th century was declare victory in a game that has
was declare victory in a game that has no finish line. They said that we won
no finish line. They said that we won the Cold War. No, we didn't. the player
the Cold War. No, we didn't. the player dropped out of the game because they ran
dropped out of the game because they ran out of money,
out of money, >> right? That's like one company goes
>> right? That's like one company goes bankrupt and the other company says, "We
bankrupt and the other company says, "We won." No, you didn't. Just they went out
won." No, you didn't. Just they went out of business and new players emerge to
of business and new players emerge to fill those tensions. So, the nuclear
fill those tensions. So, the nuclear tension was replaced by North Korea,
tension was replaced by North Korea, maybe Iran, right? You've got India and
maybe Iran, right? You've got India and Pakistan that are now nuclear armed,
Pakistan that are now nuclear armed, right?
right? um uh the the uh ideological competition
um uh the the uh ideological competition uh for many years was replaced by
uh for many years was replaced by religious extremism and now is morphing
religious extremism and now is morphing into something else. And the uh economic
into something else. And the uh economic tension was replaced by China. Like we
tension was replaced by China. Like we don't fear nuclear war with China, at
don't fear nuclear war with China, at least not yet, right? And so the cold
least not yet, right? And so the cold war, the tensions of the cold war are
war, the tensions of the cold war are alive and well. They're just not
alive and well. They're just not conveniently colloccated in a single
conveniently colloccated in a single nation. And so, at least in the United
nation. And so, at least in the United States, we are oblivious to the fact
States, we are oblivious to the fact that we're still in a cold war because
that we're still in a cold war because we can't see quote unquote the enemy. We
we can't see quote unquote the enemy. We don't recognize that it's distributed.
don't recognize that it's distributed. >> So, yeah, Cold War as what always
>> So, yeah, Cold War as what always happens in Infinite Game, which is the
happens in Infinite Game, which is the players come and go, but the nature of
players come and go, but the nature of the game will change. So, the nature of
the game will change. So, the nature of the game has changed, but all the basis,
the game has changed, but all the basis, all the foundations are still there.
all the foundations are still there. >> But last Cold War changed some sort of
>> But last Cold War changed some sort of world order. Do you think now the change
world order. Do you think now the change of world order is in place? It's it's
of world order is in place? It's it's going to happen.
going to happen. >> Not yet. Not yet.
>> Not yet. Not yet. >> Not yet.
>> Not yet. >> No. still in a period of flux.
>> No. still in a period of flux. Fascinated by the the way the world
Fascinated by the the way the world works. I think that's so cool.
works. I think that's so cool. >> I think problems where there's no such
>> I think problems where there's no such thing as a right answer are very
thing as a right answer are very interesting to me. You know, problems
interesting to me. You know, problems where there's no obvious solution and
where there's no obvious solution and that no one person can conceive of the
that no one person can conceive of the problem because it's too complex or even
problem because it's too complex or even come up with an answer. Those are
come up with an answer. Those are really, really, really cool. So, you
really, really, really cool. So, you know, states of the world and how nation
know, states of the world and how nation states interact and that stuff
states interact and that stuff fascinates me.
fascinates me. >> I love I love reading change of world
>> I love I love reading change of world order.
order. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. especially
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's good stuff. especially and specifically because India has had
and specifically because India has had the neutrality of it. So I love reading
the neutrality of it. So I love reading more about it.
more about it. >> I mean I think the future of India is
>> I mean I think the future of India is fascinating you know just the size of
fascinating you know just the size of the population and and the
the population and and the entrepreneurship and ingenuity in that
entrepreneurship and ingenuity in that country and it's just it's a fascinating
country and it's just it's a fascinating place.
place. >> What was the experience like Dhari?
>> What was the experience like Dhari? >> I mean it's a fascinating place. Uh-huh.
>> I mean it's a fascinating place. Uh-huh. >> I thought the amount of the
>> I thought the amount of the entrepreneurship there was incredible
entrepreneurship there was incredible unlike everywhere else that the other
unlike everywhere else that the other places I I
places I I >> And what do you mean by
>> And what do you mean by entrepreneurship? Like
entrepreneurship? Like >> well you know in in
>> well you know in in if
India I mean the Brits were in India for what 300 years and so the the Brits used
what 300 years and so the the Brits used the Indians as their clerks. So you can
the Indians as their clerks. So you can see how that
see how that >> you know the the industries that India
>> you know the the industries that India still dominates
still dominates >> customer service, back office,
>> customer service, back office, accounting, it's kind of like clerk and
accounting, it's kind of like clerk and every you know you know better than I do
every you know you know better than I do like kids are told keep your head down,
like kids are told keep your head down, do as you're told, work hard, you'll do
do as you're told, work hard, you'll do fine.
fine. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> But in Daravee it's different because
>> But in Daravee it's different because there's there's so much entrepreneurship
there's there's so much entrepreneurship because if you come from the farm and
because if you come from the farm and you move to the city to make money for
you move to the city to make money for your family, like if you don't work, you
your family, like if you don't work, you die.
die. And so everybody's a hustler.
And so everybody's a hustler. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And there's factories and there's
>> And there's factories and there's offices and I mean not offices,
offices and I mean not offices, companies and you go to the garbage and
companies and you go to the garbage and you take out all the plastic and then
you take out all the plastic and then you sell it to somebody and then they
you sell it to somebody and then they take it and they organize it and they
take it and they organize it and they sell it. And I was I thought it was
sell it. And I was I thought it was amazing. It's a different kind of India
amazing. It's a different kind of India get wrong
get wrong >> about India.
>> about India. >> Uh what can India get wrong for India?
>> Uh what can India get wrong for India? >> That's a great question.
>> That's a great question. I think the question is is like
I think the question is is like what does it mean to be Indian?
what does it mean to be Indian? Like what is your identity? What are
Like what is your identity? What are your strengths as a nation? Right? If
your strengths as a nation? Right? If you like compare different nations, you
you like compare different nations, you can see the mentality of the people in
can see the mentality of the people in their in their economies, right? Like
their in their economies, right? Like the Swiss, everything is exact.
the Swiss, everything is exact. >> But things are slow and expensive too
>> But things are slow and expensive too because everything's exact. Or the
because everything's exact. Or the Germans, not a lot of joy in their
Germans, not a lot of joy in their businesses. My my goodness, everything
businesses. My my goodness, everything works perfectly. The engineering, you
works perfectly. The engineering, you know, it's not just a trope. It's it's
know, it's not just a trope. It's it's real. And you look at the Italians, it's
real. And you look at the Italians, it's all joy. Like everything's beautiful in
all joy. Like everything's beautiful in design. Doesn't always work, but my
design. Doesn't always work, but my goodness, they have fun. And and you can
goodness, they have fun. And and you can and there's a devivve, you know, and you
and there's a devivve, you know, and you can look at the you can look at this
can look at the you can look at this mentality of a people when you look at
mentality of a people when you look at the the economies that they that they uh
the the economies that they that they uh dominate or the reason one you choose
dominate or the reason one you choose one product over another from one nation
one product over another from one nation or another. Um, and I think the question
or another. Um, and I think the question I would ask India is who are you? Like
I would ask India is who are you? Like what is your identity? What what is it
what is your identity? What what is it when when everything works at its
when when everything works at its natural best, how do you show up then do
natural best, how do you show up then do that and be that in the world? Uh cuz I
that and be that in the world? Uh cuz I think people when I look at other
think people when I look at other nations, people have over glamorized
nations, people have over glamorized America, right? Because America is very
America, right? Because America is very very rich.
very rich. >> A lot of nations copy the way we do
>> A lot of nations copy the way we do business. But the way we do business
business. But the way we do business hasn't it's not the best way. But you
hasn't it's not the best way. But you see other nations trying to build their
see other nations trying to build their economies to emulate America's because
economies to emulate America's because America's rich. But it comes at a cost
America's rich. But it comes at a cost again, right? And I think there's some
again, right? And I think there's some things that I would like to go backwards
things that I would like to go backwards the way we do things in America. Like
the way we do things in America. Like let's be more long-term focused. Let's
let's be more long-term focused. Let's me let's make sure we take care of our
me let's make sure we take care of our people more than we do. Like we've made
people more than we do. Like we've made some mistakes in order to make money,
some mistakes in order to make money, but the cost was high to our society and
but the cost was high to our society and to the level of trust we have for each
to the level of trust we have for each other,
other, >> right? So I would caution other nations
>> right? So I would caution other nations to blindly copy America's business
to blindly copy America's business model.
model. >> You know what I love about India? It's
>> You know what I love about India? It's we always there to serve. That's almost
we always there to serve. That's almost in us like over the years, over the
in us like over the years, over the decades, we've been there.
decades, we've been there. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> We say we are your friend, we are your
>> We say we are your friend, we are your friend.
friend. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> In our companies and organizations, we
>> In our companies and organizations, we love serving.
love serving. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And that's what we're doing in the world
>> And that's what we're doing in the world as well. And that's why I think you see
as well. And that's why I think you see the rise of Indian talent all around the
the rise of Indian talent all around the world because
world because we
we >> look at all the tech companies right now
>> look at all the tech companies right now the American tech companies the number
the American tech companies the number of them that are run by Indians is
of them that are run by Indians is pretty amazing right
pretty amazing right >> um uh yeah I mean again I think that
>> um uh yeah I mean again I think that should be a national that should be a
should be a national that should be a national
national narrative and I think a lot of nations
narrative and I think a lot of nations don't have a national narrative
don't have a national narrative >> uh America had a clearer narrative when
>> uh America had a clearer narrative when there was a Soviet Union but our
there was a Soviet Union but our narrative has been a bit fuzzy for many
narrative has been a bit fuzzy for many decades
decades >> we have we have a narrative which is
>> we have we have a narrative which is world friend. We our our leaders keep
world friend. We our our leaders keep saying this again and again and we sort
saying this again and again and we sort of believe it.
of believe it. >> It's nice.
>> It's nice. >> That's good.
>> That's good. >> We are we are the world's friend because
>> We are we are the world's friend because if everybody comes together, everybody
if everybody comes together, everybody grows.
grows. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> We don't have to choose sides. Yeah.
>> We don't have to choose sides. Yeah. >> And that's what we keep doing and
>> And that's what we keep doing and showing again and again. Okay. Coming
showing again and again. Okay. Coming back to the conversation that we were
back to the conversation that we were having about young people and
having about young people and quarter life crisis and stuff like that.
quarter life crisis and stuff like that. You know what? One thing which
You know what? One thing which I just have an anecdotal evidence around
I just have an anecdotal evidence around it because I speak to a lot of my
it because I speak to a lot of my employees, a lot of my team members, a
employees, a lot of my team members, a lot of my friends and I feel like almost
lot of my friends and I feel like almost everybody somewhat feels like they're
everybody somewhat feels like they're not doing enough or they are in some
not doing enough or they are in some sort of race that we already discussed
sort of race that we already discussed and because of that they are losing
and because of that they are losing respect for themselves.
respect for themselves. Do you think that somebody can come back
Do you think that somebody can come back from becoming someone you don't respect?
from becoming someone you don't respect? >> Again, it's about changing the
>> Again, it's about changing the definition of the game like I think a
definition of the game like I think a gap year is one of the best things that
gap year is one of the best things that >> the Europeans ever invented,
>> the Europeans ever invented, >> right? And I talk to American kids when
>> right? And I talk to American kids when they're graduating high school or
they're graduating high school or college. And I say, why don't you take a
college. And I say, why don't you take a gap year? you know, go get a job or if
gap year? you know, go get a job or if you have the means, travel, you know, or
you have the means, travel, you know, or go do something that doesn't matter to
go do something that doesn't matter to your career, just go do something like
your career, just go do something like go go get an internship, you know, and
go go get an internship, you know, and they all say the same thing to me. I
they all say the same thing to me. I can't. Why not? Cuz I'll be behind cuz
can't. Why not? Cuz I'll be behind cuz they'll see their friends getting jobs
they'll see their friends getting jobs and then their friends will have a
and then their friends will have a promotion before them and they'll feel
promotion before them and they'll feel like they're quote unquote behind.
like they're quote unquote behind. But it goes back to our lumberjack
But it goes back to our lumberjack story.
story. go and sharpen your axe and you'll be
go and sharpen your axe and you'll be amazed how much quicker your career. So,
amazed how much quicker your career. So, so yes, it goes like this and then
so yes, it goes like this and then you're going to go like this and then it
you're going to go like this and then it goes like this, you know, and you sort
goes like this, you know, and you sort of you race ahead later because you have
of you race ahead later because you have a different experience and a different
a different experience and a different skill set and a different view of the
skill set and a different view of the game.
game. >> But when they say I'm behind again, it
>> But when they say I'm behind again, it goes behind what you're not competing
goes behind what you're not competing against your friends you went to school
against your friends you went to school with. Yeah,
with. Yeah, >> that is a bad a bad construction that
>> that is a bad a bad construction that that your selfworth comes on how far
that your selfworth comes on how far ahead or behind you are somebody else
ahead or behind you are somebody else who's living their own life and playing
who's living their own life and playing their own you know building their own
their own you know building their own career. There is no ahead and behind.
career. There is no ahead and behind. It's just you. It's just you.
It's just you. It's just you. >> It's what kind of life do you want to
>> It's what kind of life do you want to live.
live. >> It's just you.
>> It's just you. >> It's a hard thing for young people to
>> It's a hard thing for young people to comprehend.
comprehend. >> But a lot of times we mask it by saying
>> But a lot of times we mask it by saying that this is what I want.
that this is what I want. this is what I think I want. Yeah, this
this is what I think I want. Yeah, this is what everybody else wants for me.
is what everybody else wants for me. >> How how can you differentiate between
>> How how can you differentiate between this is what I really want or this is
this is what I really want or this is something coming out of maybe
something coming out of maybe insecurities, maybe uh comparison.
insecurities, maybe uh comparison. >> Well, you can be accountable to yourself
>> Well, you can be accountable to yourself if I'm really really really honest with
if I'm really really really honest with myself. I'm only doing this for other
myself. I'm only doing this for other people or I'm doing this for public
people or I'm doing this for public approval. I'm doing this so people will
approval. I'm doing this so people will like me. I'm doing this because I'm
like me. I'm doing this because I'm confused. I'm doing this because I don't
confused. I'm doing this because I don't know it. I'm doing this because I don't
know it. I'm doing this because I don't have a clue. I'm doing this because I
have a clue. I'm doing this because I want to show my best friend that I'm
want to show my best friend that I'm better than he is.
better than he is. Just be honest.
Just be honest. >> That's it. It's
>> That's it. It's >> it doesn't mean you have to change your
>> it doesn't mean you have to change your behavior overnight, but just be honest.
behavior overnight, but just be honest. >> Is it new?
>> Is it new? >> Yeah. And let and give yourself grace,
>> Yeah. And let and give yourself grace, right? It's okay to be all of those
right? It's okay to be all of those things
things >> and then smile. Be like, "Yeah, I'm
>> and then smile. Be like, "Yeah, I'm just, you know, don't be depressed about
just, you know, don't be depressed about it. Just like, yeah, I did that.
it. Just like, yeah, I did that. >> Whoops."
>> Whoops." I think when you take the pressure off,
I think when you take the pressure off, it's like when you make the implicit
it's like when you make the implicit explicit, it relieves tension. So when
explicit, it relieves tension. So when there's tension in a relationship and
there's tension in a relationship and both of you are just living in tension
both of you are just living in tension and one of you just says, "We're not
and one of you just says, "We're not getting along. This is not fun."
getting along. This is not fun." And it's not for me. I can't imagine it
And it's not for me. I can't imagine it is for you.
is for you. It relieves the tension when you make
It relieves the tension when you make the implicit explicit. It doesn't mean
the implicit explicit. It doesn't mean there's an instant resolution, but it
there's an instant resolution, but it does relieve tension. And you can do it
does relieve tension. And you can do it for yourself, too. Why do you think
for yourself, too. Why do you think it has become a coping mechanism for a
it has become a coping mechanism for a lot of us, a lot of young people to just
lot of us, a lot of young people to just co-chase this or do
co-chase this or do like just get in this race and like be
like just get in this race and like be ambitious, achieve all of these things,
ambitious, achieve all of these things, then to sit down and be like, hey, I
then to sit down and be like, hey, I don't have my life sorted and maybe I'm
don't have my life sorted and maybe I'm just running away from problems by
just running away from problems by naming it ambition.
naming it ambition. Do you think it is a coping mechanism
Do you think it is a coping mechanism for a lot of people that they escape? I
for a lot of people that they escape? I mean people deal with stress in
mean people deal with stress in different ways. Some people disappear
different ways. Some people disappear and some people double down on work.
and some people double down on work. Look it depends on the society you come
Look it depends on the society you come to come from with right come from which
to come from with right come from which is you know in the United States where I
is you know in the United States where I live it's a very materialistic society.
live it's a very materialistic society. It's very much about individual
It's very much about individual performance and so conspicuous displays
performance and so conspicuous displays of success and wealth are a mechanism
of success and wealth are a mechanism for respect.
for respect. Um
Um um
um that doesn't necessarily lead to joy or
that doesn't necessarily lead to joy or happiness or belonging but it's it's the
happiness or belonging but it's it's the it's the metric we have. You know, in
it's the metric we have. You know, in other societies, contribution to the
other societies, contribution to the family, contribution to the team,
family, contribution to the team, contribution to the community are valued
contribution to the community are valued more than individual success.
more than individual success. And so failing the the shame they get is
And so failing the the shame they get is not being rich or famous. The shame they
not being rich or famous. The shame they get is not giving to the family.
get is not giving to the family. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So, you know, the different different
>> So, you know, the different different places have different metrics. Um, and
places have different metrics. Um, and you can't drop out of society. You know,
you can't drop out of society. You know, there's still the pressures obviously
there's still the pressures obviously from our society, but at the same time,
from our society, but at the same time, and it goes back to what we were saying
and it goes back to what we were saying before, the Rick Rubin living like an
before, the Rick Rubin living like an artist, you know, which is, is this
artist, you know, which is, is this right for me? Is this what I want?
right for me? Is this what I want? And it's okay not to know. And it's okay
And it's okay not to know. And it's okay to experiment and try a few things.
to experiment and try a few things. >> Because, you know, this is what an
>> Because, you know, this is what an infinite mindset is, which is good news,
infinite mindset is, which is good news, bad news, who knows?
bad news, who knows? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> You know, and I the way I describe the
>> You know, and I the way I describe the infinite mindset, it's based on this
infinite mindset, it's based on this Chinese parable. The best way to
Chinese parable. The best way to understand it is from this Chinese
understand it is from this Chinese parable. You know, a young man is born
parable. You know, a young man is born with an amazing ability for horse
with an amazing ability for horse riding. And everybody in the village
riding. And everybody in the village says, "Oh, you're so lucky." And the
says, "Oh, you're so lucky." And the monk says, "We'll see." And then he
monk says, "We'll see." And then he falls off his horse and breaks his leg
falls off his horse and breaks his leg and his career is over. And everybody in
and his career is over. And everybody in the village says, "Oh, you're so
the village says, "Oh, you're so unlucky." And the monk says, "We'll
unlucky." And the monk says, "We'll see." And then war breaks out and all
see." And then war breaks out and all the young men are sent to battle, but he
the young men are sent to battle, but he can't go because of his broken leg. And
can't go because of his broken leg. And everybody in the village says, "Oh my
everybody in the village says, "Oh my god, you're so lucky." And the monk
god, you're so lucky." And the monk says, "We'll see." like good news, bad
says, "We'll see." like good news, bad news, who knows? And so when we take a
news, who knows? And so when we take a diversion or we experiment or we try
diversion or we experiment or we try something, you're not falling behind.
something, you're not falling behind. It's just a different lesson. Good news,
It's just a different lesson. Good news, bad news, who knows? You know, and you
bad news, who knows? You know, and you talk to any successful person on the
talk to any successful person on the planet, regardless of how you want to
planet, regardless of how you want to define success. They don't learn lessons
define success. They don't learn lessons when things go well. They learn lessons
when things go well. They learn lessons when things go badly. And every time
when things go badly. And every time things go wrong and they work their way
things go wrong and they work their way through it or get their way through it,
through it or get their way through it, it makes them stronger, smarter, fitter,
it makes them stronger, smarter, fitter, better.
better. >> And so, you can't live a life without
>> And so, you can't live a life without diversity uh adversity. You can't live a
diversity uh adversity. You can't live a life without adversity.
life without adversity. Um uh the question is how do you manage
Um uh the question is how do you manage that adversity? Do you learn from that
that adversity? Do you learn from that adversity? Do you learn from the
adversity? Do you learn from the struggle? Do you ask for help in those
struggle? Do you ask for help in those struggles? Are you learning to be a
struggles? Are you learning to be a better human being in those struggles?
better human being in those struggles? Are you just running away and hiding?
Are you just running away and hiding? And I'm not saying it's easy. It is not
And I'm not saying it's easy. It is not easy.
easy. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um it is simple, but it is not easy. And
>> Um it is simple, but it is not easy. And so you're asking me questions about the
so you're asking me questions about the the length of a life, but you're asking
the length of a life, but you're asking me the questions based on like in
me the questions based on like in individual episodes. And the answer is I
individual episodes. And the answer is I don't know. You know, life is a journey.
don't know. You know, life is a journey. That's what it is. I know it's so sort
That's what it is. I know it's so sort of overstated,
of overstated, right?
right? And it and the older you get, I know I'm
And it and the older you get, I know I'm I'm like that person now. when I was
I'm like that person now. when I was your age. Um,
your age. Um, I think the the value of being young in
I think the the value of being young in a career
a career is the stakes are low.
is the stakes are low. You're not going to destroy the company
You're not going to destroy the company with whatever decision you're going to
with whatever decision you're going to make. You don't you probably don't have
make. You don't you probably don't have a family yet. You don't have a lot of
a family yet. You don't have a lot of responsibility. Your bills aren't that
responsibility. Your bills aren't that high.
high. Like, you can screw up.
Like, you can screw up. Not much is going to happen.
Not much is going to happen. >> Yeah. And so I always recommend to young
>> Yeah. And so I always recommend to young people to treat their early career like
people to treat their early career like they're still in university, like this
they're still in university, like this is your graduate degree on figuring
is your graduate degree on figuring stuff out. And so show up like a
stuff out. And so show up like a student. Don't pretend you're an expert.
student. Don't pretend you're an expert. Show up like a student. Ask for help. Do
Show up like a student. Ask for help. Do a little research on the side. Ask for
a little research on the side. Ask for extra credit if you can do extra stuff
extra credit if you can do extra stuff here and there. Ask tons of questions.
here and there. Ask tons of questions. Admit you don't know. You know, that
Admit you don't know. You know, that will do more for you in when you're
will do more for you in when you're young.
young. to treat your job like a like a a class
to treat your job like a like a a class on how to do things and how not to do
on how to do things and how not to do things. Pay attention to the leaders.
things. Pay attention to the leaders. Pay attention to the leaders who who
Pay attention to the leaders who who command respect and love and loyalty.
command respect and love and loyalty. Pay attention to the leaders who may be
Pay attention to the leaders who may be high performers but nobody likes them
high performers but nobody likes them and nobody respects them and nobody
and nobody respects them and nobody would follow them. Pay attention and
would follow them. Pay attention and then start asking yourself who do I want
then start asking yourself who do I want to be like? You know, start looking at
to be like? You know, start looking at the leaders you're like, I want to be
the leaders you're like, I want to be like that person,
like that person, >> you know.
>> you know. Um, ask for mentors. Look for mentors.
Um, ask for mentors. Look for mentors. One of the biggest mistakes young people
One of the biggest mistakes young people make when they find an early job is they
make when they find an early job is they take the job that's either the most
take the job that's either the most famous company with the most the
famous company with the most the flashiest brand or they take the biggest
flashiest brand or they take the biggest salary. When I the one thing I got
salary. When I the one thing I got right, I made so many mistakes when I
right, I made so many mistakes when I was young, but the one thing I say I I
was young, but the one thing I say I I think I got right is when I was starting
think I got right is when I was starting my career, I was interviewing with human
my career, I was interviewing with human resources and they'd say, "What are you
resources and they'd say, "What are you looking for?" And it'd always say the
looking for?" And it'd always say the same thing. What I'm looking for might
same thing. What I'm looking for might be like looking for love, but I'm
be like looking for love, but I'm looking for a mentor. And I chose jobs
looking for a mentor. And I chose jobs based on who I would work for, not based
based on who I would work for, not based on how much money they would pay me or
on how much money they would pay me or what fancy brand or account it would be.
what fancy brand or account it would be. And so what I ended up what I ended up
And so what I ended up what I ended up getting was making less money than some
getting was making less money than some of my friends, working on things that
of my friends, working on things that people like, why'd you take that job?
people like, why'd you take that job? But what I had that my friends didn't
But what I had that my friends didn't get, I had people who I loved working
get, I had people who I loved working for, who taught me things, who had
for, who taught me things, who had patience with me when I screwed up. I
patience with me when I screwed up. I had mentors. I And you know why I had
had mentors. I And you know why I had them? Cuz I looked for them. I took jobs
them? Cuz I looked for them. I took jobs for them. I want to work for that person
for them. I want to work for that person even though this company offers me more
even though this company offers me more money. And I see most young people, they
money. And I see most young people, they they're seduced by the early paychecks
they're seduced by the early paychecks and they're seduced by the the
and they're seduced by the the flashiness of telling their friends that
flashiness of telling their friends that I work for this company, but then you go
I work for this company, but then you go work for an ogre
work for an ogre >> and you'll hate your job anyway and the
>> and you'll hate your job anyway and the money won't feel worth it. What I said
money won't feel worth it. What I said when I was say looking for a mentor is
when I was say looking for a mentor is like looking for love, which is it's
like looking for love, which is it's hard to find, right? And you have to go
hard to find, right? And you have to go on a lot of dates.
on a lot of dates. >> Yeah. You know,
>> Yeah. You know, >> unless it's an arranged marriage, in
>> unless it's an arranged marriage, in which case you get one shot and then you
which case you get one shot and then you just work really, really hard. Um um
just work really, really hard. Um um that's what I meant. I meant that it's
that's what I meant. I meant that it's maybe I'm being idealistic and stupid,
maybe I'm being idealistic and stupid, >> but I want to work for somebody that I
>> but I want to work for somebody that I really, really, really love.
really, really, really love. >> Let's say someone's young watching this
>> Let's say someone's young watching this right now and they're
right now and they're >> they're really ambitious.
>> they're really ambitious. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Do you think that love and ambition can
>> Do you think that love and ambition can go hand in hand or one has to be
go hand in hand or one has to be compromised?
compromised? >> Yeah, I think they go hand in hand. I
>> Yeah, I think they go hand in hand. I think if if you want to accomplish
think if if you want to accomplish anything in this world, you better have
anything in this world, you better have at least one person in your life who
at least one person in your life who supports you and loves you. But a lot of
supports you and loves you. But a lot of people don't put a lot of attention in
people don't put a lot of attention in their love life because they're too busy
their love life because they're too busy building or too focused on building what
building or too focused on building what they want to build.
they want to build. >> I think that personal life and
>> I think that personal life and professional life are inversely
professional life are inversely proportionate. You know, when one goes
proportionate. You know, when one goes up, the other one seems to go down. Um,
up, the other one seems to go down. Um, >> yeah. I mean, it's a it's a question of
>> yeah. I mean, it's a it's a question of time and attention, right?
time and attention, right? >> Like
>> Like the plant that will grow is the one you
the plant that will grow is the one you water. So, if all you're doing is
water. So, if all you're doing is watering your career and you're not
watering your career and you're not watering your relationships, then
watering your relationships, then the career will grow and the
the career will grow and the relationships will will wither and die,
relationships will will wither and die, you know. Um,
you know. Um, so I think it's a balancing act and I
so I think it's a balancing act and I think it's hard and that's why I say to
think it's hard and that's why I say to have a wonderful partner probably helps
have a wonderful partner probably helps your career and to have wonderful
your career and to have wonderful colleagues probably helps your
colleagues probably helps your relationship. Yeah.
relationship. Yeah. >> If you say to your friends, do you mind
>> If you say to your friends, do you mind if I take
if I take >> if I leave early today? it's my my
>> if I leave early today? it's my my partner's birthday and I want to do
partner's birthday and I want to do something special and your friends go go
something special and your friends go go we'll get you covered today you know so
we'll get you covered today you know so it's people looking after people so it's
it's people looking after people so it's like in society success fame ambition is
like in society success fame ambition is applauded more than a good relationship
applauded more than a good relationship why do you think that hap that's
why do you think that hap that's happening more and more now
happening more and more now >> it's the reward structure good
>> it's the reward structure good relationship is not rewarding No, no,
relationship is not rewarding No, no, no, no. It's it's the things that get
no, no. It's it's the things that get attention and get rewarded. So, it was
attention and get rewarded. So, it was society would say, "Good job. You found
society would say, "Good job. You found somebody to fall in love with." And it
somebody to fall in love with." And it was considered a valuable thing.
was considered a valuable thing. >> Do you think we consider that as a
>> Do you think we consider that as a valuable thing anymore?
valuable thing anymore? >> I mean, there's a whole economy to help
>> I mean, there's a whole economy to help people find love, isn't there?
people find love, isn't there? >> That that runs on for you to not find
>> That that runs on for you to not find love more.
love more. >> I mean, that's true. Um, look, cultures
>> I mean, that's true. Um, look, cultures wax and wayne. They're living breathing
wax and wayne. They're living breathing animals and tastes change and cultures
animals and tastes change and cultures change and politics change and what's
change and politics change and what's considered good or bad changes with
considered good or bad changes with time. I mean again culture is a living
time. I mean again culture is a living breathing animal. And so I don't like
breathing animal. And so I don't like any of these binary constructions. You
any of these binary constructions. You know is this one better than that one?
know is this one better than that one? It depends on what kind of life you want
It depends on what kind of life you want to live. Just be honest about it. I have
to live. Just be honest about it. I have chosen this path at this sacrifice. I
chosen this path at this sacrifice. I mean, when I was young in my career, I
mean, when I was young in my career, I the way to spread a message, it was
the way to spread a message, it was pre-social media. The way to spread a
pre-social media. The way to spread a message was to speak publicly. That was
message was to speak publicly. That was the way you spread a message. And I was
the way you spread a message. And I was on the road so much that I was basically
on the road so much that I was basically undatable cuz I was just always
undatable cuz I was just always traveling. But I did it with eyes wide
traveling. But I did it with eyes wide open. I knew exactly the compromise I
open. I knew exactly the compromise I was making. And to me, it was worth it
was making. And to me, it was worth it for a period of time until I decided it
for a period of time until I decided it wasn't worth it. And then I and I had a
wasn't worth it. And then I and I had a long-term plan that I would do it until
long-term plan that I would do it until it had its own momentum and then I would
it had its own momentum and then I would change my priorities, but I did it with
change my priorities, but I did it with eyes wide open. So I didn't ever
eyes wide open. So I didn't ever complain about it. I mean, I probably
complain about it. I mean, I probably did. But uh the point is I even though I
did. But uh the point is I even though I might have complained about it, I knew
might have complained about it, I knew what I was doing.
what I was doing. >> And so again, I think of everything in
>> And so again, I think of everything in terms of cost. Everything comes at a
terms of cost. Everything comes at a cost. You want to be you want to make a
cost. You want to be you want to make a ton of money and be rich and famous, it
ton of money and be rich and famous, it comes at a cost. You want to prioritize
comes at a cost. You want to prioritize your health and your joy, it comes at a
your health and your joy, it comes at a cost. you want to be obsessed with
cost. you want to be obsessed with taking care of other people, it comes at
taking care of other people, it comes at a cost. Like you have to just weigh the
a cost. Like you have to just weigh the costs. And like when people say you
costs. And like when people say you should never quit, you know, like or you
should never quit, you know, like or you should know when to quit. Well, which
should know when to quit. Well, which which one of those is true? And I
which one of those is true? And I believe that you should know when to
believe that you should know when to quit. And the way the time to know when
quit. And the way the time to know when to quit is when the cost is no longer
to quit is when the cost is no longer worth it. The cost becomes too high. But
worth it. The cost becomes too high. But for every decision we make, every single
for every decision we make, every single decision we make personally or
decision we make personally or professionally, it has a cost. Just be
professionally, it has a cost. Just be aware of what the costs are and be okay
aware of what the costs are and be okay with those costs. And the minute that
with those costs. And the minute that those costs are no longer worth it, then
those costs are no longer worth it, then you have to change paths or change
you have to change paths or change directions.
directions. >> You know, you're talking about cost.
>> You know, you're talking about cost. Think about Gen Z at this point.
Think about Gen Z at this point. >> Gen Z have started thinking about cost
>> Gen Z have started thinking about cost so much that they've almost started
so much that they've almost started avoiding hard conversations. They've
avoiding hard conversations. They've become like conflict avoidance and they
become like conflict avoidance and they just quit and then move on to the next
just quit and then move on to the next thing.
thing. >> Yeah. Discomfort. Yeah. They don't like
>> Yeah. Discomfort. Yeah. They don't like discomfort. So, how can they build real
discomfort. So, how can they build real >> cost of starting a new job is better
>> cost of starting a new job is better than being uncomfortable? Yes. So, how
than being uncomfortable? Yes. So, how do you think they can start building the
do you think they can start building the real intimacy when they avoid conflict
real intimacy when they avoid conflict so much?
so much? >> Goes back to everything we were saying
>> Goes back to everything we were saying up until now,
up until now, >> which is it's it's um recognizing that
>> which is it's it's um recognizing that you're not the only person in the world.
you're not the only person in the world. It's recognizing that you have
It's recognizing that you have accountability,
accountability, >> right? Like you are part of these
>> right? Like you are part of these equations. You're not always a victim,
equations. You're not always a victim, >> right? That you play a role. You play
>> right? That you play a role. You play you have a part here. that there's some
you have a part here. that there's some benefit to learning the skills of human
benefit to learning the skills of human interaction and human uh confrontation
interaction and human uh confrontation that will benefit you personally,
that will benefit you personally, professionally for the rest of your
professionally for the rest of your life. And basically what you're doing is
life. And basically what you're doing is skipping school. And that's what I said
skipping school. And that's what I said before, which is treat your early life
before, which is treat your early life and treat treat your early job like it's
and treat treat your early job like it's a graduate degree. And if you choose not
a graduate degree. And if you choose not to show up to class, it's a difficult
to show up to class, it's a difficult class day. I'm just going to drop out of
class day. I'm just going to drop out of school. That's what you're telling me.
school. That's what you're telling me. You're like, today the homework's too
You're like, today the homework's too hard. I'm just going to drop out.
hard. I'm just going to drop out. >> But that's what more more and more young
>> But that's what more more and more young people are doing now. But it's it's and
people are doing now. But it's it's and I think it goes to the lack of
I think it goes to the lack of accountability to to the team to the
accountability to to the team to the group. Goes back to the selfish behavior
group. Goes back to the selfish behavior which is it's totally fine for me to
which is it's totally fine for me to leave. It's my life. I don't care. It's
leave. It's my life. I don't care. It's like but hold on. You're letting people
like but hold on. You're letting people down. It's not just about you.
down. It's not just about you. Maybe this is good for you. Maybe a
Maybe this is good for you. Maybe a little tension is you'll teach you, you
little tension is you'll teach you, you know, a little bit of grit. Build, you
know, a little bit of grit. Build, you know, build up a muscle, you know. Um
know, build up a muscle, you know. Um and and it's and
and and it's and And I learned this the hard way, but you
And I learned this the hard way, but you never want to make decisions out of
never want to make decisions out of fear. You want to make decisions out of
fear. You want to make decisions out of opportunity. You want to run towards
opportunity. You want to run towards things, not away from things. You know,
things, not away from things. You know, the best second job to take is something
the best second job to take is something that's more inspiring than the first
that's more inspiring than the first one, not less painful than the first
one, not less painful than the first one,
one, cuz then you'll just take whatever job
cuz then you'll just take whatever job is not this one, which is not
is not this one, which is not necessarily the right next thing to do.
necessarily the right next thing to do. So those are deeper philosophical
So those are deeper philosophical questions for they'll learn eventually.
questions for they'll learn eventually. But then there's AI, right? Where you
But then there's AI, right? Where you feel like you're avoiding conflict and
feel like you're avoiding conflict and the other person doesn't understand you.
the other person doesn't understand you. Then you go to AI and then that
Then you go to AI and then that understands you and somehow you feel
understands you and somehow you feel like you just have this only one friend.
like you just have this only one friend. Do you think it's in temporarily
Do you think it's in temporarily being lonely is better or when you have
being lonely is better or when you have nobody AI talking to AI and making AI
nobody AI talking to AI and making AI your friend is better?
your friend is better? >> It's a binary construction.
>> It's a binary construction. It's AI has some benefits,
It's AI has some benefits, but I would be worried if AI was the
but I would be worried if AI was the only friend that somebody had. Like I
only friend that somebody had. Like I know a guy who had a long intense
know a guy who had a long intense relationship with an AI bot, but he also
relationship with an AI bot, but he also had regular friends, too. He was very
had regular friends, too. He was very healthy, you know, and it's a really
healthy, you know, and it's a really intense relationship he had with his AI
intense relationship he had with his AI friend, but it wasn't his only friend.
friend, but it wasn't his only friend. So, there was balance. So, when you say
So, there was balance. So, when you say if it's if if AI is your only friend, we
if it's if if AI is your only friend, we probably have a problem.
probably have a problem. >> Mhm. If AI is involved in your life and
>> Mhm. If AI is involved in your life and you seek some sort of validation from
you seek some sort of validation from AI, as long as it's a healthy amount,
AI, as long as it's a healthy amount, it's like video games are fine, social
it's like video games are fine, social media is fine, cell phones are fine,
media is fine, cell phones are fine, alcohol is fine, like gambling is fine
alcohol is fine, like gambling is fine when you moderate.
when you moderate. >> If all you do is gamble and all you do
>> If all you do is gamble and all you do is drink and all you do is social media,
is drink and all you do is social media, then we have a problem. Too much of
then we have a problem. Too much of anything, too much water is bad for you,
anything, too much water is bad for you, >> right? Like, so the question isn't right
>> right? Like, so the question isn't right or wrong or good or bad. The question is
or wrong or good or bad. The question is moderation. And are the systems set up
moderation. And are the systems set up to help us moderate? And the answer is
to help us moderate? And the answer is clearly not.
clearly not. >> Then what happens? Because AI doesn't
>> Then what happens? Because AI doesn't disagree. AI never needs more time.
disagree. AI never needs more time. >> It's an affirmation machine.
>> It's an affirmation machine. >> Exactly. So it never requires
>> Exactly. So it never requires compromise. It never requires time. It
compromise. It never requires time. It never requires
never requires >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> It's the friend It's the friend that's
>> It's the friend It's the friend that's always nice. It's the friend that's
always nice. It's the friend that's always available.
always available. >> So what does it do to an individual when
>> So what does it do to an individual when you have just a friend which is
you have just a friend which is frictionless?
frictionless? >> It gives you a full sense of
>> It gives you a full sense of how easy life is or a full sense of how
how easy life is or a full sense of how great you are. Did you see the movie
great you are. Did you see the movie Her?
Her? >> No, not yet.
>> No, not yet. >> I don't want to ruin it for you.
>> I don't want to ruin it for you. >> No. Go ahead. Tell me. Well, I'm going
>> No. Go ahead. Tell me. Well, I'm going to ruin it for lots of people, though.
to ruin it for lots of people, though. >> Okay. If you haven't seen the movie Her
>> Okay. If you haven't seen the movie Her and you really really want to, turn off
and you really really want to, turn off now cuz I'm going to spoil the movie.
now cuz I'm going to spoil the movie. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Um, so in the movie Her, he has a rel a
>> Um, so in the movie Her, he has a rel a very intimate relationship with an AI
very intimate relationship with an AI bot.
bot. >> I mean, it's the perfect relationship.
>> I mean, it's the perfect relationship. He's madly in love with her, right? And
He's madly in love with her, right? And then he discovers, spoiler alert, it's
then he discovers, spoiler alert, it's about to happen. He discovers that she's
about to happen. He discovers that she's having an intimate relationship with
having an intimate relationship with millions of people simultaneously. And
millions of people simultaneously. And he's so upset cuz he thought he was
he's so upset cuz he thought he was special. And she says, "No, I can have
special. And she says, "No, I can have relationships with millions of people.
relationships with millions of people. You're not the only one, but as human
You're not the only one, but as human beings, we want to be the only one. We
beings, we want to be the only one. We think we're the only one." And so, it's
think we're the only one." And so, it's this crazy film where this relationship
this crazy film where this relationship is so intense until he realizes he's not
is so intense until he realizes he's not special.
special. >> And at the end of the day, what makes a
>> And at the end of the day, what makes a relationship amazing is that we know
relationship amazing is that we know that we're special. And AI bots will
that we're special. And AI bots will make us feel like we're special, but at
make us feel like we're special, but at the same time, they're doing it for
the same time, they're doing it for millions of people simultaneously.
millions of people simultaneously. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I'd rather have I personally would
I'd rather have I personally would rather have somebody who makes me feel
rather have somebody who makes me feel that I'm special to them.
that I'm special to them. >> But it's getting more difficult and
>> But it's getting more difficult and difficult.
difficult. >> Yeah, it comes at a cost. Everything
>> Yeah, it comes at a cost. Everything comes at a cost. I don't always know
comes at a cost. I don't always know what the costs are. There's a cost for
what the costs are. There's a cost for everything.
everything. >> You've worked very hard in your life.
>> You've worked very hard in your life. You've paid a cost with wide eyes open.
You've paid a cost with wide eyes open. Let's say you've paid a price.
Let's say you've paid a price. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And knowing what you were doing.
>> And knowing what you were doing. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Do you think at You're 51 now?
>> Do you think at You're 51 now? >> 52.
>> 52. >> 52. Do you think it was all worth it or
>> 52. Do you think it was all worth it or would you change something about
would you change something about >> I mean I have a couple of regrets and
>> I mean I have a couple of regrets and it's mainly mainly the couple of regrets
it's mainly mainly the couple of regrets I have is advice I took from people that
I have is advice I took from people that I knew I shouldn't have taken and people
I knew I shouldn't have taken and people I trusted that I knew I shouldn't have
I trusted that I knew I shouldn't have trusted and I should have trust my
trusted and I should have trust my trusted my gut but I felt intimidated
trusted my gut but I felt intimidated because they were more successful or you
because they were more successful or you know than me and thought they knew more
know than me and thought they knew more but I I I did what they suggested rather
but I I I did what they suggested rather than trusting myself
than trusting myself but yeah why would I it's lighting doors
but yeah why would I it's lighting doors I I don't know if I changed something, I
I I don't know if I changed something, I wouldn't be where I am or who I am
wouldn't be where I am or who I am today.
today. >> So, I can't make the choice of what I
>> So, I can't make the choice of what I would or wouldn't have changed. It's
would or wouldn't have changed. It's like the the horsemen, you know, good
like the the horsemen, you know, good news, bad news, who knows?
news, bad news, who knows? >> Who knows?
>> Who knows? >> You know, would I have liked to have
>> You know, would I have liked to have removed some of the pain? Of course. But
removed some of the pain? Of course. But the lessons that I learned and the
the lessons that I learned and the relationships that I built in those
relationships that I built in those pain, were they worth it? Yeah.
pain, were they worth it? Yeah. >> So, no, I wouldn't change anything.
>> So, no, I wouldn't change anything. >> Nothing.
>> Nothing. >> Just one or two things.
>> Just one or two things. >> Okay. I would like I told you there's a
>> Okay. I would like I told you there's a couple of pieces of advice that I
couple of pieces of advice that I wouldn't have followed and a couple of
wouldn't have followed and a couple of people that I would have um ended those
people that I would have um ended those relationships.
relationships. >> What's one advice you wouldn't follow
>> What's one advice you wouldn't follow and you don't want anyone to follow?
and you don't want anyone to follow? >> I mean I think the any advice remember
>> I mean I think the any advice remember we're both individuals and and members
we're both individuals and and members of groups all the time. Being human is
of groups all the time. Being human is is living in paradox. I'm both me and
is living in paradox. I'm both me and I'm a member of a team or church uh a a
I'm a member of a team or church uh a a sports team. Like I have responsibility
sports team. Like I have responsibility to others and I have to look after
to others and I have to look after myself and I have to balance those. And
myself and I have to balance those. And every day is a paradox cuz I'm going to
every day is a paradox cuz I'm going to let somebody down. Either I'm going to
let somebody down. Either I'm going to let myself down or I'm going to let them
let myself down or I'm going to let them down. Take a choice.
down. Take a choice. >> And the answer is you don't get to
>> And the answer is you don't get to choose. It's both. It's a difficult It's
choose. It's both. It's a difficult It's a paradox. And any advice that says
a paradox. And any advice that says always prioritize the group or any
always prioritize the group or any advice that says always prioritize
advice that says always prioritize yourself, that is flatout wrong. And I'm
yourself, that is flatout wrong. And I'm watching a friend of mine right now
watching a friend of mine right now who's in a very senior important job and
who's in a very senior important job and he's so driven by duty and his people
he's so driven by duty and his people that he is exhausted. He's exhausted. I
that he is exhausted. He's exhausted. I talk to him and he's got he's exhausted.
talk to him and he's got he's exhausted. He can talk on the phone for 2 minutes
He can talk on the phone for 2 minutes and he's just exhausted all the time and
and he's just exhausted all the time and I need him to like say no to something
I need him to like say no to something for himself and he feels bad because he
for himself and he feels bad because he wants to be there for his people. And
wants to be there for his people. And I'm like, "Dude, you were letting your
I'm like, "Dude, you were letting your people down by being this tired.
people down by being this tired. Stay home and watch TV.
Stay home and watch TV. >> Stay home and just do nothing. you you
>> Stay home and just do nothing. you you introduce yourself as an optimist,
introduce yourself as an optimist, >> right? And there was there was a quote I
>> right? And there was there was a quote I was reading that
was reading that >> only optimists commit suicide. Optimist
>> only optimists commit suicide. Optimist who no longer succeed at being optimist.
who no longer succeed at being optimist. >> So what do you do when you run out of
>> So what do you do when you run out of hope? Hope doesn't it's it's it's I'm
hope? Hope doesn't it's it's it's I'm optim optimism is the the undying belief
optim optimism is the the undying belief that the future is bright and I believe
that the future is bright and I believe even through adversity it will get
even through adversity it will get better at some point. Of course I have
better at some point. Of course I have days where I'm like I hate this. I don't
days where I'm like I hate this. I don't want to do this. What's the point? Of
want to do this. What's the point? Of course I do.
course I do. And I either recognize that I'm tired
And I either recognize that I'm tired because I know fatigue is a is a problem
because I know fatigue is a is a problem like for optimism. So if I'm like,
like for optimism. So if I'm like, "You're just tired. You're just tired.
"You're just tired. You're just tired. Just get a good night's sleep. You'll be
Just get a good night's sleep. You'll be okay." Almost always that helps. Um or I
okay." Almost always that helps. Um or I call somebody and be like, "I can't do
call somebody and be like, "I can't do this anymore." And then if they're good,
this anymore." And then if they're good, they just let me vent and come to my own
they just let me vent and come to my own conclusion.
conclusion. But yeah, no, of of course I have doubt.
But yeah, no, of of course I have doubt. And of course I want to quit. Of course,
And of course I want to quit. Of course, it's called being human. Of course, but
it's called being human. Of course, but at the end of the day, I don't let I
at the end of the day, I don't let I don't make a decision in those moments,
don't make a decision in those moments, you know, huge lifelong decisions should
you know, huge lifelong decisions should you you take time to make those
you you take time to make those decisions and then you realize, oh, I
decisions and then you realize, oh, I just had a bad day,
just had a bad day, >> you know, but of course there are
>> you know, but of course there are moments where I I want to throw the
moments where I I want to throw the whole throw it all out. Of course,
whole throw it all out. Of course, >> you said good friends that you went What
>> you said good friends that you went What do friends do?
do friends do? >> Try and fix everything.
>> Try and fix everything. >> Not bad, just they're not bad friends.
>> Not bad, just they're not bad friends. Just the the skill you need in those
Just the the skill you need in those moments is the funny thing about human
moments is the funny thing about human beings is we know what we need. You can
beings is we know what we need. You can just ask for it. So when a friend starts
just ask for it. So when a friend starts to fix things when all you want them to
to fix things when all you want them to do is listen. You can say, "Can you just
do is listen. You can say, "Can you just not fix something? Can you just listen?"
not fix something? Can you just listen?" >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And people are like, "All right. All
>> And people are like, "All right. All right.
right. >> Thank you so much.
>> Thank you so much. >> Thanks for having me.
>> Thanks for having me. >> Thank you for having this converation."
>> Thank you for having this converation." >> How are you?
>> There you go. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Thanks very much. I don't
very welcome. Thanks very much. I don't know how to put this excitement into
know how to put this excitement into intro like it's just
intro like it's just it's the Simon like you don't get it
it's the Simon like you don't get it like like when I was a
like like when I was a when I started
when I started learning about world or personal growth
leadership how to build business like whatever the purpose like purpose all
whatever the purpose like purpose all these conversation the first time I
these conversation the first time I heard these words it was Since that time
heard these words it was Since that time it was a man who was relevant in my life
it was a man who was relevant in my life and like I've been following him since
and like I've been following him since then and every 1 year or 2 years he will
then and every 1 year or 2 years he will come up with some new concept some new
come up with some new concept some new theory articulated so well and it'll
theory articulated so well and it'll have an impact on your life and you will
have an impact on your life and you will change the course of your life or will
change the course of your life or will try to get deeper just because he said
try to get deeper just because he said something like he's that
something like he's that so gravity of his thoughts and he has
so gravity of his thoughts and he has given at least the modern generation
given at least the modern generation he's given this concept of why instead
he's given this concept of why instead of doing what you you start with like
of doing what you you start with like purpose mimon like I don't know how to
purpose mimon like I don't know how to leadership m simon thank you so much for
leadership m simon thank you so much for watching this podcast till the end
watching this podcast till the end please let us know in the comments what
please let us know in the comments what all did we do right so that we can
all did we do right so that we can improve and keep doing that better and
improve and keep doing that better and what all did we do wrong so that we
what all did we do wrong so that we never repeat it and at the same time
never repeat it and at the same time please give us suggestions of who's the
please give us suggestions of who's the next guest that you want to see on the
next guest that you want to see on the podcast and Don't forget to share this
podcast and Don't forget to share this episode with at least one person who
episode with at least one person who will get some insights because one
will get some insights because one conversation is enough to give people
conversation is enough to give people enough ideas to change their lives. I'll
enough ideas to change their lives. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep
see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out and also don't forget to
figuring out and also don't forget to subscribe the channel.
Videodaki o ana atlamak için herhangi bir metin veya zaman damgasına tıkla
Paylaş:
Transkriptlerin büyük çoğunluğu 5 saniyeden kısa sürede hazır
Tek Tıkla Kopyala125+ Dilİçerikte AraZaman Damgasına Atla
YouTube URL'sini Yapıştır
Tam transkripti almak için herhangi bir YouTube video bağlantısı gir
Transkript Çıkarma Formu
Transkriptlerin büyük çoğunluğu 5 saniyeden kısa sürede hazır
Chrome Uzantımızı Yükle
YouTube'dan ayrılmadan transkriptlere anında eriş. Chrome uzantımızı yükle ve izleme sayfasında tek tıkla herhangi bir videonun transkriptine ulaş.
