50% of people under the age of 30s still
live with their parents. 70% of people
in their 20s are going through something
called a quarter life crisis.
>> He's a Harvard trained psychiatrist
>> who specializes in modern mental health.
Meet Dr. K, the man behind Healthy Gamer
>> and the voice helping millions navigate
the digital world.
>> What does someone do with the feeling of
feeling being left behind?
>> People who feel like they're not enough.
That feeling comes from trying to make
other people happy and failing. Humans
need to grow. We need to pursue
something. We need to move in a certain
direction to stay alive. True or false?
>> Chasing growth is not the same as growing.
growing.
>> A lot of people get focused on doing,
but they don't pay attention to what's happening.
happening.
>> What does it even mean to be a man right now?
now?
>> A lot of masculinity right now is men
trying to become as manly as possible in
the alpha sense. And that doesn't
translate over into happiness. And that
doesn't work. When you look at people
who are growing up right now, people in
their 20s and 30s, why is it that
they're confused, lonely, hurt, when
externally everything seems to look okay,
okay,
>> the number one health and wellness podcast,
podcast,
>> J Shetty.
>> J Shetty,
>> the one, the only J Shetty.
When you look at people who are growing
up right now, when you look at people in
their 20s and 30s, why is it that
they're secretly
confused, lonely, hurt when externally
everything seems to look okay? So, a lot
of the people that I work with, I think
externally things don't look okay. I
think I think that was more true a few
years ago. I think now we're starting to
become more and more aware that things
are even externally not okay. But I'm
totally with you. I think um you know I
was just uh reading a paper about um
this guy named Eric Ericson who sort of
talks about the stages that we go
through in life. He was a psychologist
or psychiatrist and and so he said that
a lot of people are going through
something called a noiseless crisis. So
>> explain that to me. Yeah.
>> A lot of people that you look at are
going through a crisis that you will
never see. So we're sort of familiar
with this idea of a midlife crisis. This
is when men like me and you um you know,
we maybe hit our 40s, maybe hit our 50s,
we're we're maybe paying a mortgage, we
we don't get to do what we want, we'll
maybe dye our hair, buy a convertible,
and start driving really fast.
>> But what I think is is happening way
more, and there was an interesting study
on LinkedIn that found that 70% of
people um in their 20s are going through
something called a quarter life crisis.
So this is a time when you're sort of
like you sort of took all the right
steps, you did what you should do, but
you wake up one day and you realize this
is not the life that I want. So I think
we're seeing a ton of that. And I think
that one of the main reasons for that is
that the answers that the generation
before before gave us used to work. So
like when I was growing up, you know, my
parents were like super like look, you
have to be a doctor and and then this
sort of idea of going to college,
getting educated, you'll get a good job
and then you'll be able to buy a house
and happily ever after kind of stuff.
But I think that formula doesn't work
anymore. I think our institutions have
started to fail us. Not in a negative
way, but I think if you look at the way
that psychiatry develops, you know,
we'll do research for 20 or 30 years
before we figure something out. And
there's still studies being published on
Facebook today. And I don't mean meta, I
mean Facebook. So this was a trial that
started like eight years ago that
they're like publishing the results now.
So the rate of change in the world is
rapidly increasing and we don't really
know how to deal with it and young
people are getting absolutely crushed.
>> And is that affecting are you saying
it's affecting our identity? Like you
said before there was almost a path that
was laid out. Y
>> and so you had these milestones
effectively. I go to college, I
graduate, I'll get married at a certain
age, I'll buy a house at a certain age,
I'll retire at a certain age. There were
these milestones that were laid out for
you and now whether you go to college or
not, there's basically no milestones
because the goals have changed, the
targets have changed.
>> Yeah. So, so I don't even know if I
think the targets have changed, but I
think the bigger problem is the targets
aren't meetable anymore. So, just as a
simple example, when I went to college,
it cost about $5,000 a semester, $6,000,
I think. So, you know, college cost, I
mean, it took me 5 and a half years to
graduate. Um, so, so it cost me
somewhere around $30,000 to get an
undergraduate degree. I mean, that's the
cost of one year now, right? So, costs
are increasing a lot. If you look at
this idea of like, you know, getting
married by a certain age, and I have so
many patients who really struggle with
this because they feel like they're
late. They're like 50% of people under
the age of 30 still live with their
parents. So if you sort of think about
how does that cascade
>> say that again
>> 50% of people under the age of 30 who
are adults still live with their parents.
parents.
>> Wow. I didn't know that.
>> Right. So people in the United States in
the US
>> that feels like India
but and it's an economic thing because
it used to be that you can like I mean
think about you know we're here in New
York like rents are crazy. Like you can
pay like $3,000 for like a closet you
know. So, so now it's just not people
are finishing college, they have a ton
of debt, there's inflation, people are
not able to get jobs. And then if you
think about the cascading effect, if I
want a date, right, and I'm like a
27year-old dude and then like if the
date goes well, it's like, do you want
to come back to my place? And then we go
back to my place and like my ba is
there, you know, and then it's kind of
like you can't really, you know, do that.
that.
>> So, we're seeing sort of this epidemic
of loneliness. We're seeing this like
dating and mating crisis amongst like
men and and women and a lot of young men
are struggling. A lot of young women are
struggling too. And so like I think the
world that we lived in has changed and
we need new answers. We need new paths
to navigate this world.
>> Yeah. I love what you said about how the
targets are just unmeable. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Because that's why people feel behind.
It's why they feel late. It's why they
feel they'll never get there. I now
we're all using chat GPT but a couple of
years ago when I was writing my second
book I started it off by talking about
how if you type in on Google the first
thing when you type in will I ever which
is obviously a question about your
future and possibility the first thing
that comes up is will I ever find love? >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> And the second thing that comes up is
will I ever be enough? >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> Like those are the top two questions.
>> Wow. And when you look at that and you
think, wow, like love and self-worth,
like they are right up there as the top
two most Googled things at that time.
Now on chat GPT, I'm sure we'll get so
much more data. But I love what you said
about unmet needs. What does someone do
with the feeling of feeling late, of
feeling behind, of feeling being left
behind. So this is why I was excited to
come here today because you didn't ask
me why. you asked, "What does someone
do?" Right? And I think that's what sort
of exemplifies what I appreciate about
you is that you're always focused on
what to do, not necessarily why things
happen. So I I think um you know, if you
have that feeling, there are a couple of
important things to do. The first is
that that feeling has to do with your
sense of identity. So where do you get
these expectations? Who do you think you
are? Um and I don't mean that sounds so
bad, but like really who do you think
you are? How do you understand who you
are? And this is what we see in people
who have a quarter life crisis is that
they are too busy with identification
that they don't understand identity.
Now, I know that's kind of confusing,
but if we think about identification,
what does that mean? That means that I'm
going to look outside of me and I'm
going to find a group of people and I'm
going to say my identity is like I'm one
of these people now,
>> right? Like I I'm a I'm a goth kid or
I'm super into football or I'm a gamer,
right? or I'm I'm an incel. Like there
are all kinds of ways that we can
identify. We can identify with a
political party, but identification and
identity are two different things. And I
think that when people feel like they
are behind, they have this expectation.
They're looking outside and they're
saying this is what I should be, but
their information about who they are
comes from what they see outside of them.
them.
>> And the most important thing that you
can do, I know it sounds kind of
generic, is to look within. And I mean
really think about, you know, how do I
feel about myself? What do I want in
life? I often times find that people who
feel like they're not enough, that
feeling comes from trying to make other
people happy and failing, right? So if
my parents want me to be a doctor and I
don't go to medical school, which is
what happened in my case, you know, then
you've let them down. And we get so much
our our core sense of identity, the way
we're socialized usually comes from
people outside of us. So there there's a
lot of research on things like
attachment theory where a child knows
what they feel based on reflection from
people around them. And my favorite
example of this is like, you know, when
I remember when I had a 2-year-old
daughter and she was like running around
and then she would fall
>> and then in a moment what she would do
is look around and if everyone else is
like, "Oh my god, are you okay?" she'd
start crying. But if everyone is
laughing, she'd get up and start
laughing too. So we learn so much about
ourselves from the people around us. I
think the problem is that the
expectations that everyone places on us
are no longer meetable in the same way.
>> So what you really need to do is ask
yourself, you know, who am I living for?
What do I want? What are the
expectations that I've internalized that
that form my value?
>> And then I I also tend to use a lot of
meditation practices. So I really like
for people who have identity problems,
people have narcissism or low
self-esteem, I'll do a certain kind of
meditation practice called shunya which
is shunya means void or nothingness. And
so they sort of you cultivate this
experience of like complete emptiness.
And when you cultivate that experience
of emptiness, there's a part of your
brain called the default mode network.
And this is the part of your brain that
thinks about you. So like you know your
brain thinks about all kinds of things.
I'm paying attention to you. But there
sometimes when we reflect on ourselves,
what do I think of myself? The really
interesting thing is that the default
mode network, the self-reflective
capability is hyperactive. When you're
very depressed, so when people are super
depressed, what are they thinking about?
A lot of people think that they're
thinking about how the world is falling
apart. They're really thinking about
themselves. I'm a loser. I'm pathetic. I
I've had patients who will come in and
say, you know, my family would be better
off without me. Like, I'm hurting my
kids by existing, so I'm going to kill
myself. like you you know they think so
negatively and you can't get them to
stop and so the interesting thing is as
we treat depression the default mode
network deactivates as you do
meditations and I think shunya is a
specific meditation that I suspect
activates this pretty quickly you stop
thinking about yourself and when you
stop sort of hyperfocusing
then it's this is I know it's kind of
paradoxical but when we think about
ourselves what we're really doing is
we're internalizing expectations Then
you start getting data from within.
That's not the same as thinking about
yourself. It is actually paying
attention to yourself. And then you
start to get these internal signals and
you get some amount of quietness, some
amount of stillness, some amount of
groundedness. And then people start to
move in the right direction. You start
to feel better.
>> Talk to me about that difference between
paying attention to yourself and
thinking about yourself. What are the
different thoughts and emotions and
feelings that are connected to each?
>> Ah, beautiful. So thoughts, emotions,
and feelings are all thinking about yourself.
yourself. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> When I think about myself, I'm literally
having thoughts. All look is good. All
look is bad, all look is beautiful, all
look is ugly. That's all thinking about yourself.
yourself.
Getting information from within is not
thinking about right. So if I think
about something, I am over here and the
thing is over there. So the object of
what I am thinking about happens to be
me, but the thinking is happening over
here. I am using my mind to think about
myself. So it's kind of like if you look
at your reflection in a mirror, you
don't see yourself. You are seeing a
reflection of yourself. What you're
really seeing is a mirror, right?
>> So what I think people and people get
stuck in this, right? Because they're
thinking about themselves a lot.
Instead, what they need to do is pay
attention to themselves. Now, paying
attention means observing, not thinking,
>> just watch.
>> And something really interesting
happens. So I I work with some patients
who have schizophrenia and they become psychotic
psychotic
>> and and it's really interesting. So when
I was back at Harvard, I was trying to
develop meditation protocols for
particular mental illnesses. So if you
suffer from depression um you know what
do you what kind of meditation do you do
and anxiety and stuff and I I turn that
all into a guide. Um but when I have
patients with psychosis
what I would try to so these are people
who are having hallucinations and
delusions and what I would really focus
on with them is they would get so caught
up in it right and in psychiatry we try
to make the hallucinations go away
that's a good treatment you know that
can be very good treatment but the other
thing that I would add to medications
and things like that is let's learn how
to just watch it without getting pulled
into it if they're there like so what
right can you just continue to focus on
this. Can you shift your attention away
from it? So, simply observing gives us
distance. So, there are other patients
that I have that will get so caught up
in something and and maybe you know your
listeners have situations where like
someone gets dumped and then your friend
comes to you and they're like, "Oh my
god, like my life is over, my life is
over." No, like take a step back like
get some perspective. So, as we observe
things, the bite comes out of it. We
start to gain a little bit of distance
from it. And you so you can just witness
okay I'm feeling anxious today right so
this is very different if I say my life
is falling apart versus saying there's a
part of me that feels like my life is
falling apart that doesn't make it true
thoughts aren't facts
>> so that observation is a little bit
different a skill uses a different part
of the brain and as people start doing
that they get some distance they get
some perspective and the really
interesting thing is when that part of
the brain activates it's like your
anterior singulate cortex, the part of
your brain that experiences emotion,
like your amygdala, this is like your
threat center, your survival center,
that actually starts to calm down. So
people will literally as you turn this
part of the brain on, this other part of
the brain will naturally turn off. Wow.
Yeah. It's almost like thinking has an
element of you attaching your story and
prediction and projection onto yourself
and observing is just watching the
story. It's almost like there's not even
a story actually. You're just watching.
You're just seeing.
>> It's it's a it's a beautiful way to put it.
it. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So, so you're right that your
mind attaches a lot of stuff, right? And
and this is why I'm I'm curious about
your background, but you know, in in in
Sanskrit and
>> in the Eastern spiritual traditions, we
have this concept of detachment or
>> vagya. Mhm.
>> And what what we sort of notice is if
you really think about what the source
of your suffering is, it's there can be
pain, but usually what really messes
people up are the implications of what happens.
happens.
>> Right? Oh, if like if this person says
they're if this person doesn't return my
text within the hour,
>> what does that mean? That means they
don't like me, that means they think
they're better than me, that means
they're more important people. We attach
all kinds of things and it happens
really rapidly. It happens
subconsciously. That's really where our
suffering comes from.
>> Yeah. Well said. Yeah. The Buddha called
it the second arrow. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Like the first arrow it hurts. It's
things. And then the second arrow is the
meaning, the story, the implication that
you have not even checked, you've not
fact checked, you've not observed, and
there it is.
>> Yeah. So it's I'm I'm glad you brought
up that example because I was reading
that text recently. I didn't realize I
think so we we talk about the second
arrow a lot in psychiatry which is this
concept that you know life sends you the
first arrow you can't control whether
you get dumped or not but it is the
implication that you attach right so if
I get dumped that's a fact that's
there's some amount of pain some amount
of grief but then you start to tell
yourself I'm a loser
>> I'm not good enough
>> I'm not good enough I'll I'll always be
alone those kinds of thoughts are what
you add to the equation
>> the really fascinating thing about how
to stop doing that so this is I blown
away. I I I recently read I realized I'd
never like actually looked at the
teachings of the Buddha.
>> What I had done is everyone talks about
the teachings of the Buddha, right? But
it's like other people talking about the Buddha
Buddha
>> commentaries. Yeah.
>> So what I didn't realize is the Buddha
actually says the second arrow. So we in
psychiatry we talk about this is how you
avoid pain and negative emotions. The
Buddha says that the problem with the
second arrow is also your positive emotions.
emotions.
>> He says you should stop attaching that
to your positive emotions as well.
>> Yes. So when something good happens to
your life, we get excited about it. He
says, "Don't do that."
>> So if you get a promotion, that means
I'm going to do this and that means I'm
going to do this and that means I'm
going to do this. Stop doing all that.
Promotion is that's all it is. It has no implications.
implications.
>> And the really fascinating thing is this
is why it's so hard for people. Everyone
wants the associations of the good stuff,
stuff,
>> but nobody wants to give up the
associations of the bad stuff. That's
not how the brain works. If you want to
decouple those two things, take
something in your life that is good and
look at why you're excited about it and
then let go of that excitement.
>> It's it it happened. That's it. Observe
it. It's in the past. It doesn't mean
anything about your future. And if you
train yourself on both sides of those
coins, that coin, then your mastery will
increase way more quickly.
>> Yeah, absolutely. It's as as you know as
well it's the uh definition of
equinimity in the Gita of that idea that
one's not disturbed by happiness or
distress and that's really interesting
use of words. It's like how could you
ever be disturbed by happiness? But
that's how you are because you created
so much additional meaning which now
when it didn't happen the promotion
didn't even make you happy anymore
because you believe the promotion was
your right towards
>> some bigger greater thing and now you
can't even experience the joy of that moment.
moment.
>> Absolutely. And that's what I see. Yeah,
you know, I I have kind of like a couple
different buckets of patients. And the
interesting thing is I have people who
are like 29 years old living at home,
you know, in their mom's basement
playing video games and watching
pornography all day. And then I also
have like executives and CEOs and and
startup founders and and they do exactly
that. They attach a lot of things to
their happiness. So they end up moving
the goalposts. One promotion isn't
enough. Now I need another one. Now I
need another one. Now I need another
one. And it's beautiful the you know the
quote from the Gita that you said
because I think what does it mean to be
disturbed by happiness? Literally the
way that I I try to work with these
people is a disturbance is anything that
creates a change in your mind.
>> So your natural state is to be still.
Think about when you watch a sunset you
know or you're just like completely
peaceful like you're just there with
yourself. And even when you get a
promotion, that creates a disturbance.
And the moment that you create a
disturbance, you're no longer still.
You're no longer at peace. And you may
be signing yourself up for future
disappointment. Research shows that most
women still want to date a man who makes
more money than they do. But 60 plus% of
people who go to college are now women.
So what's happened is men are in this
really tough spot where the expectations
from men have not changed
but society has changed so we can't meet
those expectations anymore. So this is
what a lot of people don't realize. They
think that pornography addiction is
about sexuality. They think it's about
being horny. They think it's about lust.
It's not lust. One of the top variables for
for
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is there. What I'm really intrigued by
is how do you kind of factor that
thought in with growth? Because it's
almost like humans need to grow. We need
to pursue something. We need to move in
a certain direction to stay alive. True
or false?
>> I think that's the most common way, >> right?
>> right?
>> So, what's what's a healthier way or
what would be the better way?
>> Uh healthier or better is is a tricky language.
language.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, what's
>> So, um I I think that So, this is really
confus. Glad you asked this because
>> I I I think
>> chasing growth is not the same as growing.
growing. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> A lot of people get focused on doing
>> but they don't pay attention to what's
happening. So, I see this all the time
in patients with addiction where like,
you know, you're they're doing something
like a substance or pornography or
something like that, but they're not
really paying attention to how does
pornography or the substance rewire my brain
brain
>> if I crush up opiates and snort them
right now? What am I signing myself up
for tomorrow? What what is the human I
am creating? What is the life I will
inherit if I take this action today?
And the interesting thing there is once
you start paying attention to that, it's
not really about growing. It's not about
getting anywhere. It's just what do I
want to inherit tomorrow? That's a great
way to I I think to think about it,
right? Think like actually super short
term. So I think wanting growth,
ambition, goals,
these are wonderful motivators,
but they won't bring you happiness,
>> right? So you can get satisfaction of
the ego through achievement. But then
you've done something really sneaky,
which is that you've made the lever of
satisfaction in your life gratification
of the ego. So I want to chase this. I
want to get promoted. But that's really
tricky. Like sure, you can get promoted
and you can feel really good, but now
you are training your brain
to feel good when you get something.
>> Mhm. And so this is something that no
amount of promotions will ever be enough.
enough.
>> It's less about what's happening and who
you're becoming and what you're
inheriting and more about what you're
doing. And that's why we get addicted to doing.
doing.
>> Yeah. Absolutely. So we get addicted to
doing because we want our internal state
to change. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So if I'm like
>> if I'm not happy, if I do something
about it,
>> then my circumstances will change. If I
get her flowers one more time, she'll
say yes when I ask her out on a date.
>> But what we're really doing is we're
putting the control of our life. We're
putting our internal
happiness or contentment based on how
the world responds to me. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So I'm not saying that you shouldn't
act, which a lot of people will say like
should you not act, which actually if
you do this right will be where you end
up. And that's what happened to the
Buddha, right? So he said like I'm going
to walk this spiritual path. walked away
from his wife, walked away from his son.
And so I think that there is a certain
part of this path that is not
conducive to life. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> That you will start to change so much.
You will stop start to stop caring so
much about the things that everyone
around you cares that that it can become
really difficult.
>> Yeah. And that's what I was going to say
that even if we go back to the simple
idea at the beginning where you said if
you know who you are, you can start to
choose your own values almost your own
metrics, your own milestones that aren't
based on your parents, society, the
things around you. But the challenge
with that is you're fighting against
decades and decades of wiring
>> that is encouraging you to move at these
milestones, to move at this pace, to be
married by this age, to have kids by
this age. And so it's such a struggle
sometimes it can feel because you're
like wait a minute I'm trying to follow
my whatever it is. But over here there's
this chart that feels like it's ranking
me constantly that doesn't just
disappear. How do we hold on to our values
values
and a new vision in a world that has a
very clear script you should follow?
>> So it's a great question. Um, I guess
this is where like I'd like to just
share my experience, which is really weird.
weird.
So, I think that I got to where I am by
making a series of terrible decisions
and I strongly encourage everybody else
to consider doing the same. So, I spent
7 years studying to become a monk and
then decided to walk away from that.
Right? So, this is like abandoning this
path that I spent so much time putting
into. decided that I fell in love and
the whole met my wife and was not super
interested in brahmacharia
um celibacy and and so you know did that
and then ended up going to medical
school towards the end of medical school
I was going to do holistic oncology and
and do like evidence-based complimentary
alternative medicine for cancer
treatment my dad was a cancer doctor so
I was like I learned all this stuff in
India and I was like let's cure cancer
with like herbs and yoga and meditation
and chemotherapy and then towards the
end of it I fell in love with psychiatry
And even my family was like actually
super against it. They're like, "This is
crazy." Like my mom who's a doctor was
like, "You're going to go crazy if you
spend time with crazy people all the
time." Right? Why don't you like be a
real doctor? Like do cardiology. I look,
you know, do my wife was watching Grey's
Anatomy. She wanted me to be a
neurosurgeon. I was like, "Same organ,
but maybe in a different way." And so I
sort of walked away. I done a bunch of
research and and things like that. And
so I sort of walked away from that path
and like at the 11th hour sort of tried
to apply for psychiatry, ended up
getting lucky. And then I I wound up at
Harvard and I was like faculty at
Harvard Medical School and was like, you
know, working on these meditation
protocols and stuff like that. And then
I kind of started streaming one day
talking to like broke gamers on the
internet cuz I realized like no one's
really helping them. And so like walked
away from like that academic career. And
then the weird thing is like that sort
of picked up in a weird way. So I I
think that what a lot of people don't
realize is that so here I am you're kind
of saying okay so how do I the world
wants me to be this this is what I want
to be and there's a fundamental mismatch
even if I'm going to do this I'm going
to piss off the world and what I've seen
not only in myself but also my patients
who I encourage this path for. I was
really worried because I realized that
about 40% of my patients within 18
months of coming to see me will make a
career change. >> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> And I was like worried that I'm biasing
them in some way. Like am I like shaping
them? But I think once you start to
realize, okay, this is the direction
that I want to move. Once you cast some
of those things off and you start moving
in your direction, you get so much
positive internal feedback. Like, yeah,
people around you are upset, but you are grounded.
grounded.
>> And if you really think about when you
feel the most out of control in life,
it's because you let the opinions of
other people disturb this. But as long
as you were secure in what you're doing,
if you really lean into that and there's
so much positive feedback, like it the
first time I started streaming on Twitch
and you know, like there were five
people there, it felt so good to talk to
them. It just felt right. It felt right
in here. And the biggest thing getting
in the way of that in today's society is
we use technology to dull what's going
on in here.
>> I'm feeling anxious. Like I'm on the
subway. I'm bored. I don't like feeling
bored. Let me pull out my phone. I'm
feeling anxious. Let me pull out my
phone. Oh my god, my boss just told me
like, uh, let me pull out my phone. So,
we do so many things with technology
that dull our sense of self. We don't
like to be with ourselves anymore. I saw
a super scary study. People are spending
so much time on the toilet with their
phone, it's increasing the risk of
hemorrhoids by about 65%.
>> Oh gosh.
>> And they're not even pushing. They're
just sitting there. And if you stay in
that position in your body, it puts
pressure on the blood vessels. And like
like sitting on the toilet with your
phone is giving people hemorrhoids.
>> Oh my god.
>> It's super scary. And it does something
similar to your mind, too. I don't know
what. But
>> that's Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's as I'm
listening to you, I'm just thinking like
that's really the core of all of it. And
you talked about the ego self at the
beginning. It's almost like the reason
why we're so obsessed with what everyone
thinks about us is because of the ego.
It's right there.
>> So if I was to ask you, what does
someone do to truly stop caring what
people think?
Because there's usefulness in caring
what people think. It's what helps the
world stay sane to some degree. But at
the same time, there's a part of you
which what you're saying which I love is
this idea of I loved I love the
explanation you gave between hey when I
was live on Twitch for five people it
felt right here and then the opposite to
that which is I don't feel good right
here so I'm going to numb myself with
technology or you said dull yourself.
How do we even get to that clarity that
I like doing this right now? Because I
think we've all become so clouded and
I'm sure you see this with the people
you help and serve and the millions of
people online all the time that even
when you encourage someone to move in a
direction of noticing what's true to
them, it becomes a really difficult
concept for people because they're like
I don't know what's true for me. I'm
kind of I like these all these things
and I like this but then but now I'm
distracted by video games. I'm now
distracted by porn. I'm now distra like
there those pulls are so strong that
even if you're close to knowing I really
like this five people on Twitch the
distraction of oh I wish I had a million
subscribers is so strong that you get
pulled away from that sense how does
someone truly know something that feels
right for them to pursue in a world
where they're either clouded so they
don't know themselves well enough or
they get distracted
>> I think the answer is sort of in the
question and I think this Why it's fun
to talk to you because you ask questions
with certain concepts in mind. So I
think you know I don't know what I feel
so let's understand that first right so
if you want to understand what you
really want because you are getting
distracted like and it happens to me too
I'll see you know now that I'm in like
whatever room I'm in I make comparisons
right oh this doctor is doing this this
influencer is doing this um so the first
thing to understand is that where you
spend your attention is going to be
where you get information so literally
like if I numb your tongue like if I'm
doing dental surgery like you you know
you can't talk you can't chew. So one of
the key concepts is awareness precedes
control. And you kind of pointed this
out that if we look at what's happening
in our world, where is our perception
going? Where is our attention going?
It's always going outside of us. You
know, I when I was in med school, I
started med school at the age of 28,
which was behind. And so I was like, "Oh
my god, like I have to be efficient. I
have to be efficient." Everyone is so
concerned with productivity and
efficiency. I think it's one of the most
damaging things in the world because now
I'm listening to a podcast on the way to
the train. I'm reading on the train,
listening to a lecture on the way to the
lecture hall, paying attention in the
lecture hall. Like every moment I can be
productive, I can be efficient. But my
attention is outside of me.
So I get bad. I I basically another
thing to understand about the mind is
the mind never wears out. It rusts. The
faculties that you do not use, you will
lose. This is why we forget languages
that we don't practice. Right? So, we're
our attention is going outside of us,
getting pulled away by things like
technology. And then once we start to if
I spend all of my time thinking about
what everybody else is doing, I will not
have a good sense of myself. So, the
first thing we need to do is internalize
our awareness.
The second thing to understand is that
internalizing our awareness, why don't
we do that? Because it's usually painful.
painful.
So I don't know why the world is
designed this way, but when a patient
comes to me and sits in therapy,
they don't have a breakthrough first and
then cry a lot at the end. They cry a
lot. They face their trauma. They face
their negative emotions and then the
good stuff is at the end. So the reason
people don't like to look within
themselves, we actually try really hard
to never look within ourselves
because there's usually a lot of pain in
there. Like I remember when I was at the
height of my video game addiction, I was
like 18 years old and I I for 18 for a
whole year, I never went to sleep. I
always passed out. If I got into bed and
what would happen if I was idle,
thoughts would start to flow like you're
screwing up your life. You know, there a
month has gone by. You haven't gone to a
single class in a month. You're screwing
everything up. I could see that I was
destroying my life and I was powerless
to stop it. So shame and guilt would
flood my mind and I hated that. So I
would play until 5:30 in the morning,
6:00 in the morning. So I was so
exhausted that I would just pass out
immediately because if I was awake for
even 5 minutes, my mind would turn on
and I would be awake for hours in
absolute torture.
>> So we don't like to look within
ourselves because looking within
ourselves is painful.
This is where there has to be this ugly
part. And from a neuroscience
perspective, what's going on is we are
doing so much emotional suppression
through technological devices. That's
what they do, right? So if you're
feeling anxious and you pull out your
phone and you like laugh at cats, then
like suddenly you feel better. So it
shuts that stuff off. So as we shut off
these circuits of the brain, we have to
reawaken them. And this is probably from
an evolutionary perspective. I don't
know if this kind of makes sense, but
negative emotions keep us alive more
than positive emotions. So our brain has
a bias to experience the negative over
the positive. So the first thing we have
to do is move our attention away from
the outside world. Spend some time with
yourself. No music, no headphones, no
podcast, nothing like that. I mean, I
love podcast. Love this podcast. But
spend some time, you know, after you
listen to this episode, sit in silence.
Let yourself absorb. Second thing is, if
you sit with yourself, what's going to
come up is a lot of negativity.
But that negativity
has to come out before it disappears.
>> Mhm. So when I'm sitting with a patient
who has a history of trauma, the trauma
is like stuck inside them and they use
so many defense mechanisms to bury it.
We want to bring that stuff up. We want
to have you crying and stuff like that
and then let it go. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> And then underneath all the negativity,
you will find that voice, that internal
sense of really what you want. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> Right. when you have a good cry at the
end of that like you'll have a sense of
peace and you'll be like okay like this
sucks now that I've sat with it what am
I going to do about it and it's amazing
how it happens you don't have to do it
all you have to do is create the right
circumstances and in the same way that
your body the moment that you swallow a
piece of food your body takes care of
the rest if you give your mind the right
environment it is designed to heal just
like a cut on my arm it will get rid of
those negative emotions, you just need
to stop getting in the way.
>> That's such a that is a really brilliant
explanation. Never heard it put that way
so well. It's I love the idea that your
mind is already designed to repair and
heal itself and if it's given the right
parameters and the right setup and the
right environment, it will naturally
find its way.
>> Absolutely. But but the key part that
you put there is the pain and the
discomfort is the prerequisite for a
breakthrough and our ability to sit in
that is the part that makes it
contingent as to whether we'll actually
rise above from it.
>> Yeah. So I I think just one other example.
example.
>> So I want you all to think about when
you get food poisoning, what does your
body do?
It's feels nauseous. I'm going to vomit.
the nausea and vomiting is doesn't feel
good, but it is healthy.
>> And so sometimes what I'll also do like
when my kids get food poisoning is I
I'll wait I won't give them anti-nausea
meds unless they're in risk of
dehydration. So there's times where you
have to stop what the the mind naturally
does. But generally speaking, we want
the mind like think about it for a
second. Every time you stop, if anxiety
arises, your mind is trying to like get
rid of it. It's trying to vomit it out.
Why does your mind keep doing that? Why
does it keep going there? Because that's
the problem it's trying to solve.
>> Yeah. Let's go back to the ego now. Sure.
Sure.
>> Because you don't want to I didn't want
you to miss out on that part. The ego I
raised because I was saying that
we were saying that a part of us has to
stop caring what people think in order
to even pursue this path. I'm assuming
when you were studying to become a monk
for seven years,
where was that intentional desire coming
for you?
Where was the intention of to be a monk
coming? It was coming from the ego,
>> right? Talk to me about that because
that doesn't make sense to the outside.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I mean here's
what happened in my life. So went to
college. So growing up I was like kind
of gifted. Um so never really like
learned how to study. And then my
parents, you know, were like, "Oh, you
have to be Dr. Aluk." And then I
remember when I was 15 years old, I was
at a a party one day and some some adult
asked me like, "What do you want to be
when you grow And I said, "I want to be
a doctor." And they were like, "Wow,
like you're going to be a doctor. Like
that's so amazing, right?" And so my ego
loved that. I was like, "Oh my god, I
just say I'm going to be a doctor and
people are going to be like, "Wow, you
have so much potential." I loved hearing
that. And then, but my heart really
wasn't in it. It was like ego. So then
when like I got to college, I was like,
"Ah, like whatever." And so then what
started to happen, something weird
happened is I started to fail. Fell into
video game addiction. I started to feel
a lot of shame. And then all of my
friends like left me behind. I I
remember I went to a Christmas party
where there was a friend of mine from
high school and I hadn't seen her in a
few years and I was like, "What are you
doing?" And she's like, "Oh, you know, I
just finished med school. Like I'm going
to start opthalmology residency in like
a month." She's like, "What are you up
to?" And I'm like, "I'm applying to
medical school for the third year in a
row. I've been rejected 80 times." What
ended up happening is my ego was so low
or like it was so bruised that I pulled
a really interesting trick that happens
in in spirituality where I said I'm
going to be not material anymore. All of
these materialistic people are chasing
these material. You want to be a doctor
for money and fame and pride and all of
this. I'm going to be better. I'm going
to let go of materialism. I'm going to
rise above you. I'm going to be swami.
I'm going to be yogi. I'm going to be
great. But it was really ego. So that's
the original. So I fell in love with it
in a genuine way, but also what kept me
there was like this is the way that I
win. This is the way that I catch up.
This is the way that I impress people.
>> So it took a lot of
>> both of them were that way cuz even Dr.
Lane was
>> absolutely right. So that's what's
sneaky about the ego. It'll twist and turn.
turn. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> that sort of happened for a while.
Thankfully, I had some really excellent
teachers. I did a lot of meditation
practice and I kind of discovered that
years later that oh this is actually
like my ego. So that was my journey and
then then I actually like let go of the
ego quite a bit. I stopped caring about
my grades and we'll get to that in a
second. So I like ended up getting into
medical school and and I I tried to take
my vows. So when I was 21 years old I
went to my my guru and I said you know I
want to become a monk like can I take my
vows? And his response was really
interesting. He said, "Becoming a monk
is about giving up your life, but you
don't have a life worth giving up. Your
life is empty. Like, you haven't done
anything. What are you giving up?
Nothing. It's an escape." So, he said,
"Go back to the US, get a doctoral
degree, and if you still want to do it
when you're 30, we'll take you. You can
come back every summer. We'll continue
teaching you practices. You can continue
learning. You can walk that path, but
we're not going to let you take vows."
So, I said, "Okay, fine. Deal." So, I
went back, focused on getting a doctoral
degree. So, decided to go to medical
school. Um, that's a little bit silly
because my wife wanted to be married to
a doctor. I was like dating her and so I
was like, "All right, might as well."
Um, which is like so funny because, you
know, everyone thinks like, oh, like you
have some deep No, I was just like, I
got to get a doctoral degree and like
this chick that I like wants me to be a
doctor, so like let me do that cuz she's
going to think that's hot. Um, so I mean
it was so like simple, right? So as I
start really focusing on the work and
then I think I I sort of let go of my
ego and so you kind of talked about you
know how do you stop caring. So and like
you said you should care. So I care a
lot about what people think but I don't
let it determine my identity.
So people say negative things to me all
the time. I got reprimanded by the
medical board of Massachusetts. I think
that's a good thing. I think that's a
healthy thing. I think that sometimes in
life I make mistakes and I think
sometimes in life I behave in a
non-perfect way and so I value what
people think but I also accept that I'm
not perfect, right? So of course I'm
going to make mistakes. I I I try not to
let it affect my sense of me and that's
the key differentiator because what a
lot of people do, this is the biggest
mistake I think you can make is if
you're this is what happens, right?
People are like, "I care so much what
people think. So, how do I fix that? I
stop caring what people think." And then
you turn yourself into an
And then that causes lots of problems.
And so, the problem is either end of the
pendulum is a bad idea. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So, receive what people think. Also add
some context to it. Don't just take it
at face value. Where is this person's
criticism coming from? 90% of the uh
criticism I get is projection, right?
they see in me something that they don't
like, but that's not really who I am.
So, accept the criticism and then also
recognize that just because someone says
something about you, even if it's true,
that's not who you are. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. It's an attribute of you. But at
your core, you're just a regular human
being trying to navigate this world
doing the best that you can. And the
moment that you accept yourself as that,
nothing great but also nothing terrible,
things become way easier.
>> Yeah, it it seems like for most people
following whether they call it ego or
whether they call it something that gets
them the result they want, i.e. I get to
marry the girl I want or the guy I want
or it gets me a promotion, gets me some
more money, helps me move to this city.
It almost feels like that's a base level
motivator that pretty much all of us
function on.
>> Yeah. Yeah,
>> it's almost like the general operating
system of the world which is I need to
get this to get this
>> and it either serves you because you get
there and you get the girl or it doesn't
serve you because you don't get it and
then that's where people turn towards
depression and and other things as well.
Like that's it's almost like when your
ego is not fulfilled
for what it may think, it may end up
moving towards being disheartened,
depressed and lonely. Absolutely. So I I
think ego opens the door to those things
and there is a ton of evidence for that
and and I love your observation that
this is the default way. I think that's
what that's how far physical evolution
got us. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So if you look at like how human beings
evol evolved like you know we evolved to
care what people around us think right
so exodus from the tribe ostracization
from the tribe meant death when we were
like growing up and couldn't take care
of ourselves and things like that. So we
lived in these very tribal communities.
I think society has changed so much
because in those tribal communities
we cared a lot about the judgment of
other people but we also had a lot of
baseline connection.
You know, I I remember I had a friend
who was like one of the earliest
streamers and I I asked him why he quit
and he said, "Well, because people on
the internet are and he's like,
you know, when I used to play games in
arcades, like if you're mean to
everybody, no one's ever going to play
with you. But on the internet, you can
be mean to anyone. There's no consequence."
consequence."
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, we used to have this this our brain
evolved for some amount of like caring
what people think, but some amount of
default connection. People just don't
give up on you.
>> Yeah. In today's world, people are so replaceable.
replaceable.
So those things worked when they when
they were both there. Now we have an
imbalance where people are so
replaceable. Everybody ghosts everybody.
Online dating is like I can keep on I I
don't have to choose between 10 people,
100 people, a thousand people. The
number of options, Jay, is infinite.
>> I can keep scrolling, keep scrolling,
keep scrolling until I find what I want.
So that sort of thing has has really
changed and so now what we have to do is
learn a new way to relate to people to
form our identity and then arguably you
can talk about like this is the limit of
physical evolution and there's a whole
weird spiritual perspective on on
spiritual evolution. Um but I do think
that like this is a skill and this is
why we're seeing an explosion of mindfulness,
mindfulness,
>> right? Right. I mean, it's it was
transformative for you, transformative
for me that these concepts are what you
need to survive and thrive in today's world.
world.
>> Yeah. It's almost scary when you put it
like that though, where you're like and
and I love that example of Yeah. If you
were playing a video game at an arcade,
generally if you were decent, people
would crowd around you and watch and
cheer you on.
>> If you were bad at something, maybe one
person would walk past and laugh or make
fun of you.
>> And and now, of course, that's
escalated. And that's what leads to
loneliness because people are like,
"Well, I don't want to put myself out
there. I don't want to go on that dating
app. I don't want to make a video. I
don't want to chase my passion because
actually if I do that, there's going to
be hundreds of thousands of people or
forget that, there's going to be just
the 10 people around me, my own family,
that disagrees with what I'm doing." And
so if someone's in that state right now
where they're like, "I'm scared about
putting myself out there from a let's
let's choose dating because you brought
up dating. I'm scared of putting myself
out there from a dating perspective
because I think I'm replaceable. I'm
actually scared of even believing that
real connection exists. I don't even
know if there's someone out there for me.
me.
How do I even begin
to work against the math and the
algorithm which is feels like it's set
up against me.
This is the first time I'm going to say
I don't know. So, I think dating is the
one thing I've been focused a lot on
over the last year. But in terms of what
I understand and what I know, I got
lucky. So like I found my hopefully life
partner before things got really really hard.
hard. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think if you're not someone so
this is the one area where I kind of
feel like I don't know. So some of the
things that I'll do and and this is why
like I kind of make the content that I
do is you know I I made this guide to
meditation and what the best answer I
have is start to use some of these
concepts start to internalize some of
these skills. If we look at the way in
which dating in today's world scars you
that involves hits to your ego that
involves these things like some scars
and there's a we have a trauma guide too
where we kind of go into that but if we
kind of think about like why is dating
so hard this is the akrit concept of
something called a sumscar so this is
kind of like a trauma so if you kind of
think about every person that you date
you're not just dating that person
you're carrying the emotional baggage of
all of your experiences And this is why
online dating is such a mess. Because if
you go to date someone online, they're
not judging you based on you. They're
judging you based on all of their past experiences
experiences
>> and yours
>> and yours, right? So, so when someone
doesn't text you back, your mind
attaches associations to that, right?
Like, oh, this means they're ghosting
me. Well, why do you interpret that as
ghosting? Because I've been ghosted
before and it hurts so much. So as we go
through life, we start accumulating
baggage. And then what happens is we're
not dealing with a person. We're
interpreting that person. And I'm sure
there are people in the audience who
have felt this where people don't judge
you for you. They look at some tiny
fraction of you and they inject all of
their negative experiences with people
like that. All men are dangerous. All
women, you can't trust women, right? So
where do these generalizations come
from? And we see this so much get this
kind of indoctrination
using social media. But the the root uh
the psychological injury is there.
And so the best thing that I know how to
do is teach people
let's give you a course in yourself. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> This is how you work. And that's really
what I learned in India when I was here
in the United States. They'll teach me
about physics. They'll teach me about
chemistry. No one could explain to me,
"I want to wake up at 8:00 a.m., but I
never do. I want to stop playing video
games, but I can't control myself." And
so, as we teach people,
like, it's interesting cuz we have a lot
of incels that have been coming into our
community for the last few years, and
like they're starting to get better. As
you teach people, this is how I work.
This is where my ego comes from. I want
a relationship so bad that I'm going to
tolerate abuse because I'm scared of
loneliness. I would rather be abused
than alone. So once you start to
understand these things about yourself,
once you start to dissolve your ego a
little bit, once you start to realize
what your sum scars are, what is the
emotional baggage that you carry around
that sabotages all of your interactions?
And the way that you know this happens
is because the same crap keeps happening
to you over and over again. This person
takes advantage of you. This person
takes advantage of you. This person
takes advantage of you. That's because
you are sending out a signal that they
are picking up on
because they test boundaries. They'll
they'll treat you a little bit
inappropriately and you'll take it or
they detect that you're a people pleaser
and that you don't you can't tolerate
someone being upset. This is one of the
huge one of the biggest things that I
think people we've trained people to do
is tolerate people have now become intolerant
intolerant
of the dissatisfaction of others. If
somebody doesn't like me, I can't handle
that anymore. And so as you start to
realize some of these patterns, then I
think you're you form yourself into a
better human being. And then fingers
crossed it's up to karma or God or the
universe or whatever or the algorithm.
But I think the best thing that I know
how to tell people is turn yourself into
the healthiest human you can and then
the rest of it is kind of out of your control.
control.
>> Yeah, I actually I actually find that
approach quite refreshing and and I
think it's true. You just get a better
radar. You get a better ability to spot frequency.
frequency.
And I don't mean on a spiritual level. I
just mean on a on a general human level.
>> You like you just said, you set up your
boundaries better. You have better
barriers. You have better filters early
on. You don't allow someone with bad
behavior to last longer than they should.
should. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> And all of those things save you from
wasting time and energy.
>> And I think one of the biggest things is
you don't allow your old
old
kind of Hollywood
romance Disney version that was
programmed into you to rerun the program
every time it feels that way. So I think
so much of this goes back to that same
thing. It's like how do you not let that
old circuitry take over again even if
you've learned all these new principles
and you're meditating and you're mindful
and all this stuff but it can just flip back
back
>> because it's so hardwired and and that
ultimately sometimes you see people are
doing all the right work but they meet
someone that they found attractive
traditionally and then everything's gone
out the window.
>> Yeah. So I think it's really
uncomfortable. It's it's a beautiful
example because you kind of do
everything that you're supposed to do
but you never do the one thing you need
to do. Yeah,
>> I see this all the time in my patients.
And and you offered, I think, the best
example, which is you find someone that
you're attracted to. And what a lot of
people need to do is start looking at
people they're not attracted to. Don't
just accept that attraction because when
you follow that kind of attraction, it
gets you back into the cycle. I'm going
to meditate and I'm going to do this and
I'm going to do this, but then this kind
of person shows up and I'm going to make
the same damn mistake again. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Yeah.
>> So, so and it feels so counterintuitive.
I think another thing like so sometimes
my patients will come in, we'll talk
about, you know, dating and
relationships and they'll be like, you
know, but but it sounds like Dr. K,
you're saying I shouldn't be myself. And
I'm like, yeah, you shouldn't. I think
being yourself, I know this sounds kind
of weird, but let me explain. Being
yourself is one of the worst things that
you can do. Like, what created this
version of you? A lot of unconscious
programming, a lot of social
conditioning, a lot of trauma, right?
All of these things have turned you into
the current version of you. So I think
the real you is way more formless and
egoless and all that kind of stuff. We
actually need to dismantle. Don't just
be this set of patterns. That's what
they often times mean. They say like,
you know, if you can't handle me at my
worst, you don't deserve me at my best.
So I'm going to continue acting at my
worst. This is what we tell people
nowadays. I think that's a terrible
idea. And we wonder why there's such a
dating and mating crisis when everyone's
like, I'm just going to be me. If you
don't like me, you can move on. I'm
going to move on, too. Everyone is
replaceable. I don't need to change.
>> Right? So, I think we need to take a
step back from that and try to really
turn yourself into the best human being
that you know how to be. And then I
think things will turn around, which is
what I see pretty consistently.
>> Yeah. Yeah. At least you have the tools. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Like you said, they may not it may not
solve all your problems, but at least
you have the tools to know what to do
with it. What do you what do you think
it means? You talk so much about
masculinity, which I really appreciate
because I think it's an area that
>> the country as a whole that we both live
in is dealing with right now. Yeah. The
world's dealing with it for sure. What
does it even mean to be a man right now?
>> I I don't know. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I mean I I don't
>> Yeah. What's confusing people, I guess,
is the question.
>> Yeah. So, I I I I mean, I don't
prescribe. So masculinity, my
understanding of like the the scientific
or literature definition is like it's
like the set of, you know, behaviors and
expectations that we put on men. That's
not that's not the lens that I work. So
if you ask me about masculinity, I'd say
like go ask someone else. I mean, I'm
going to talk about it, but like just to
be clear, you know, I'm a clinician. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So my my I'm zoomed into one person at a
time. Mhm.
>> So, what I I think is going on right
now, um, you know, I I had a a really
interesting video come out recently that
got a lot of controversy about why women
prefer beta males. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm.
>> So, this is like a big thing where
everyone's like, I'm going to be alpha
and there's so much weird science that
people don't understand.
So, as one simple example of like a lot
of what masculinity like everyone wants
to be ripped, so there's a great study
that looked at something called drive
for muscularity.
>> Mhm. So this is not how muscular you
are, but how much you want to be
muscular. So the higher your drive for
muscularity is, the lower your
likelihood of entering a long-term
relationship. You can enter short-term
relationships. Um higher likelihood of
divorce. And I think there's there's a
lot of like cross talk where like a lot
of women are saying what we want is like
safety, not some dude who's like super
cut. And so there's a lot of confusion
about what it means to be a man. I think
one of the reasons why there's confusion
is because of sort of the way that men
and women operate. So
there's a part of
men that focuses on intrammale
competition. So I'm going to talk a
little bit about animals and I don't
think that translates over 100%. So big
caveat there. But if you look at sort of
like, you know, a a a lion pride, right?
The males will fight amongst themselves
and then one male will rise to the top
and then he becomes the male of the
pride. So there's this idea that like
men will fight amongst each other.
They'll create a hierarchy and then
that'll make them attractive to women.
And I certainly know that it was really
weird once I got married and started
wearing a wedding ring. I got way more
female attention. So, I think there's
some element of that that that that's
true. But I think that having spent a
lot of time working with female
patients, everyone's an individual.
We're not just like products of our
biology. And I think this is what really
confuses men is that we can fight
amongst ourselves, but that's not
actually what women want. That's not
what they actually make their their
selections based off of. So, I think a
lot of masculinity right now is men
trying to become as manly as possible
>> in the alpha sense.
>> In the alpha sense. And I think that
people get super confused because like
that doesn't translate over into
happiness. And if it doesn't translate
over into happiness, you know, the these
dudes like I've worked with so many men
who like are super into transactional
relationships because they really think
that human females that these general
principles of how lions select mates
will translate over to an individual
person who has unique genetics, unique
history, and that doesn't work. So they
approach this relationship
transactionally. They'll think like, oh,
all women want is like money. So if I approach
approach
a relationship from a transactional
perspective, if I see a woman as just a
biological uterus,
the women who want a partnership will
run away. The women who have enough
confidence will be like, "This guy is an
They'll they'll leave." And so
all you'll be left with is women who
also view relationships in a
transactional way. And then that will
sort of feed into giving you this idea
of like, okay, this is all women want
because all the women who don't want
that will never date you in the first
place. So I think we're seeing a lot of
these like mechanisms at play. I think a
lot of this masculinity is because um we
expect a lot from men, but as men are
failing those expectations because I
think they're unreasonable, we're not
really giving them an alternative. Mhm.
>> So I think you know research shows that
most women still want to date a man who
makes more money than they do. But 60
plus% of people who go to college are
now women. So what's happened is men are
in this really tough spot where the
expectations from men have not changed.
But society has changed. So we can't
meet those expectations anymore. And so
that there's this really interesting
gap. When people feel crushed, when they feel rejected, the ego activates. We
feel rejected, the ego activates. We fall into all of these like unhealthy
fall into all of these like unhealthy behaviors like pornography and drugs and
behaviors like pornography and drugs and video games and stuff like that to soo
video games and stuff like that to soo our internal environment. We don't teach
our internal environment. We don't teach boys or men emotional regulation skills.
boys or men emotional regulation skills. And so I think there's like just a
And so I think there's like just a confluence of a thousand things going on
confluence of a thousand things going on and men are getting like crushed and
and men are getting like crushed and squeezed.
squeezed. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean that I mean and and I
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean that I mean and and I appreciate I know you're a clinician. I
appreciate I know you're a clinician. I just find your perspective on some of
just find your perspective on some of these more societal
these more societal >> challenges to be to be, you know, great
>> challenges to be to be, you know, great observations and and I and I feel
observations and and I and I feel similarly it's almost like it's what we
similarly it's almost like it's what we talked about. We talked about there were
talked about. We talked about there were targets
targets somehow some of those targets have
somehow some of those targets have remained but they feel unmeable.
remained but they feel unmeable. >> Yep.
>> Yep. >> And then there are moving targets which
>> And then there are moving targets which you keep trying to place i.e. I need to
you keep trying to place i.e. I need to get more buff, I need to get more
get more buff, I need to get more ripped, I need to get more money,
ripped, I need to get more money, whatever it may be. And they become
whatever it may be. And they become arbitrary, abstract targets. What's
arbitrary, abstract targets. What's happening for women on the other side?
happening for women on the other side? Because society's also changed and and
Because society's also changed and and their desires.
their desires. >> Yeah. I think they're getting equally
>> Yeah. I think they're getting equally screwed.
screwed. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So, so I I think the you know of the
>> So, so I I think the you know of the first thing to understand and I don't
first thing to understand and I don't think it's like a competition. I think
think it's like a competition. I think as society is changing, women are facing
as society is changing, women are facing particular challenges, men are facing
particular challenges, men are facing particular challenges. And one of the
particular challenges. And one of the beautiful things we've seen in our
beautiful things we've seen in our community is the more that we understand
community is the more that we understand that I think the better off things get.
that I think the better off things get. >> That's the conversation that needs to be
>> That's the conversation that needs to be had.
had. >> Yeah. So, and it's beautiful. I I
>> Yeah. So, and it's beautiful. I I remember a post that someone once made.
remember a post that someone once made. So, there there was a a a woman who's
So, there there was a a a woman who's very attractive who said, you know, I'm
very attractive who said, you know, I'm an incredibly attractive physical
an incredibly attractive physical physically attractive woman. I feel so
physically attractive woman. I feel so incredibly alone. Every time I meet
incredibly alone. Every time I meet someone, they don't see me. They don't
someone, they don't see me. They don't care about me. They just care about the
care about me. They just care about the way that I look and things like that. So
way that I look and things like that. So there are people always around me, but
there are people always around me, but they're like using me constantly. And
they're like using me constantly. And then the really funny thing is like
then the really funny thing is like there was an incel in her subreddit who
there was an incel in her subreddit who was like, "Wow, like the way you're
was like, "Wow, like the way you're describing loneliness, that's exactly
describing loneliness, that's exactly how I feel. I never imagined that like a
how I feel. I never imagined that like a 10 out of 10 attractive woman could feel
10 out of 10 attractive woman could feel the way that I feel." And it was like a
the way that I feel." And it was like a really beautiful moment like of weird
really beautiful moment like of weird connection over the internet. I think
connection over the internet. I think one of the key things that women are
one of the key things that women are struggling with right now is first of
struggling with right now is first of all safety. So, I think that uh men are
all safety. So, I think that uh men are getting very aggressive. Men are getting
getting very aggressive. Men are getting very angry and there's some reasons for
very angry and there's some reasons for that. I think that's not some that's a
that. I think that's not some that's a problem, but I think it's the only card
problem, but I think it's the only card men have to play in today's society. So,
men have to play in today's society. So, I think they're they're safety is kind
I think they're they're safety is kind of the number one priority um or like
of the number one priority um or like the number one danger that a lot of like
the number one danger that a lot of like women face. And I and I think it's
women face. And I and I think it's something that a lot of men like can't
something that a lot of men like can't understand. So I remember getting
understand. So I remember getting frustrated because I was like walking
frustrated because I was like walking behind a woman and we were walking. So I
behind a woman and we were walking. So I was walking down in New York City
was walking down in New York City actually and she like turned ahead of me
actually and she like turned ahead of me and it was night time but I'm like
and it was night time but I'm like walking behind her. We're walking at the
walking behind her. We're walking at the same pace and then you know later on
same pace and then you know later on someone kind of tells me like oh you
someone kind of tells me like oh you shouldn't do that because it seems like
shouldn't do that because it seems like you're following her. And so then
you're following her. And so then they're like what you should do is like
they're like what you should do is like pass her. So then I started walking
pass her. So then I started walking really fast and someone else tells me
really fast and someone else tells me like you should never do that because
like you should never do that because now you're like it seems like you're
now you're like it seems like you're walking fast. You're you're get you know
walking fast. You're you're get you know you're getting closer to her. So then
you're getting closer to her. So then it's like what am I supposed to do? And
it's like what am I supposed to do? And they're like you should cross the street
they're like you should cross the street and then I cross the street but then
and then I cross the street but then like
like >> then you got run over. It's like
>> then you got run over. It's like >> I didn't get run over but then there's
>> I didn't get run over but then there's another woman on the other side of the
another woman on the other side of the street. It's like cuz it turns out
street. It's like cuz it turns out >> so I'm just like like zigzag is zagging
>> so I'm just like like zigzag is zagging back and forth. So So but I I think the
back and forth. So So but I I think the reason that they feel this way is
reason that they feel this way is because they they things are unsafe.
because they they things are unsafe. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And a lot of men feel like they women
>> And a lot of men feel like they women don't give them a chance. And it's kind
don't give them a chance. And it's kind of like imagine that a third of the
of like imagine that a third of the people that walk into your store are
people that walk into your store are going to steal from you.
going to steal from you. How would you relate to that? I think a
How would you relate to that? I think a lot of men just don't understand the
lot of men just don't understand the statistics
statistics >> around how easy it is to become a victim
>> around how easy it is to become a victim if you're a woman in this world. You can
if you're a woman in this world. You can become a victim as a man too. I I don't
become a victim as a man too. I I don't think we take um you know cases of of
think we take um you know cases of of male sexual assault victims even by
male sexual assault victims even by women and teachers and things like that.
women and teachers and things like that. We don't take that seriously. um which
We don't take that seriously. um which is a real problem. But I think that's
is a real problem. But I think that's one thing that they're really struggling
one thing that they're really struggling with.
with. >> I think another thing that they're
>> I think another thing that they're really struggling with is that there is
really struggling with is that there is a lack of good men that women are
a lack of good men that women are looking for partnership. They're looking
looking for partnership. They're looking for companionship and a lot of men have
for companionship and a lot of men have become angry. And this is where like you
become angry. And this is where like you know people will say like we blame them.
know people will say like we blame them. I think that's the big mistake that we
I think that's the big mistake that we make. I think the reason that so many
make. I think the reason that so many men are struggling right now is because
men are struggling right now is because they're the one demographic that we as a
they're the one demographic that we as a society don't help. So the one thing
society don't help. So the one thing that hasn't changed, this is maybe the
that hasn't changed, this is maybe the most damaging thing is we expect men to
most damaging thing is we expect men to solve their own problems. So 60% of
solve their own problems. So 60% of people who go to college are women.
people who go to college are women. Where are the male scholarships? We
Where are the male scholarships? We don't want we don't need those because
don't want we don't need those because men have privilege. And I think this is
men have privilege. And I think this is what's really scary is, you know, I see
what's really scary is, you know, I see this a lot because I'll have CEOs come
this a lot because I'll have CEOs come into my office and then like I'll go and
into my office and then like I'll go and work in a jail and right most of the
work in a jail and right most of the people in jail are men. And so when we
people in jail are men. And so when we talk about male privilege, which is
talk about male privilege, which is real, the key thing is like it affects
real, the key thing is like it affects men, some men a lot, but it doesn't
men, some men a lot, but it doesn't affect others. So the majority of
affect others. So the majority of workplace injuries,
workplace injuries, um, you know, things like that, like
um, you know, things like that, like those are all men. And so I I think that
those are all men. And so I I think that we need to sort of stop thinking about
we need to sort of stop thinking about yes, male privilege exists, but it may
yes, male privilege exists, but it may be insufficient to compensate. And this
be insufficient to compensate. And this is how people think. They think that if
is how people think. They think that if there's privilege, that means that there
there's privilege, that means that there isn't hurt, right? But like it though
isn't hurt, right? But like it though things don't even out.
things don't even out. >> One thing I appreciate about medicine is
>> One thing I appreciate about medicine is things are very multiffactorial. So
things are very multiffactorial. So there's a lot of variables here. And
there's a lot of variables here. And just because you're rich doesn't mean
just because you're rich doesn't mean that like that has great advantages, but
that like that has great advantages, but if you get cancer, you still have
if you get cancer, you still have cancer. It's not like being rich cancels
cancer. It's not like being rich cancels out cancer. It may help in a very
out cancer. It may help in a very significant way, which unfortunately
significant way, which unfortunately I've seen. There's some degree of like
I've seen. There's some degree of like connection there, but one doesn't
connection there, but one doesn't replace the other.
replace the other. >> Mhm. Yeah. No. And it and and I think
>> Mhm. Yeah. No. And it and and I think you took it to the higher ground there
you took it to the higher ground there which I really appreciate which is
which I really appreciate which is that's the convers and that's why I
that's the convers and that's why I asked about both the conversation that
asked about both the conversation that needs to be had is how do we just
needs to be had is how do we just understand each other better because
understand each other better because generally what we find and it's easier
generally what we find and it's easier because it's clickbait gets more views
because it's clickbait gets more views gets more attentions is the small echo
gets more attentions is the small echo chambers of one or the other. Like we
chambers of one or the other. Like we could be sitting here as a conversation
could be sitting here as a conversation as men having a conversation about how
as men having a conversation about how women have let us down or we could be
women have let us down or we could be having a conversation about how men are
having a conversation about how men are terrible because then that makes us look
terrible because then that makes us look like better men and both are not helpful
like better men and both are not helpful for society because
for society because >> we're just going to sit on the opposite
>> we're just going to sit on the opposite sides of the bridge and just point
sides of the bridge and just point fingers.
fingers. >> Yeah, I'm with you. So I I think that
>> Yeah, I'm with you. So I I think that you know that's what happens is like
you know that's what happens is like that's literally what we see is like
that's literally what we see is like then you know male only spaces will
then you know male only spaces will highlight how women are saying that men
highlight how women are saying that men are all trash and then
are all trash and then >> and many to make seven figures or
>> and many to make seven figures or whatever it is.
whatever it is. >> Yeah. Right. So so and everyone's just
>> Yeah. Right. So so and everyone's just pointing the finger at each other and I
pointing the finger at each other and I think I think you're spot on that what
think I think you're spot on that what we really try to do is just understand
we really try to do is just understand >> sort of recognize that every human being
>> sort of recognize that every human being doesn't matter if you're a man it
doesn't matter if you're a man it doesn't matter if you're a woman you
doesn't matter if you're a woman you have a unique set of advantages. You
have a unique set of advantages. You have a unique set of challenges. Let's
have a unique set of challenges. Let's understand who you are. Let's give you
understand who you are. Let's give you this basic set of skills of like
this basic set of skills of like self-standing,
self-standing, dissolving your ego, emotional
dissolving your ego, emotional regulation. And if you like work on this
regulation. And if you like work on this stuff, I think that's the best way is
stuff, I think that's the best way is you become a healthy human, an
you become a healthy human, an independent human. I think that sets you
independent human. I think that sets you up for the best kind of relationship.
up for the best kind of relationship. >> I think that speaks to a big issue right
>> I think that speaks to a big issue right now. I'd love to know how you work with
now. I'd love to know how you work with people on this because it's a big part
people on this because it's a big part of self-standing is there's such a
of self-standing is there's such a challenge we have with raising the mind
challenge we have with raising the mind from judgment to understanding.
from judgment to understanding. It's so much easier to judge, blame,
It's so much easier to judge, blame, point fingers, shift responsibility
point fingers, shift responsibility to make sense of someone through very
to make sense of someone through very little amounts of information to have a
little amounts of information to have a projection on them. How do we encourage?
projection on them. How do we encourage? How do you encourage your clients? How
How do you encourage your clients? How do you encourage your patients and
do you encourage your patients and people you meet to rise from judgment to
people you meet to rise from judgment to understanding in a world where we don't
understanding in a world where we don't have time? We don't have energy for
have time? We don't have energy for that. It requires so much more effort.
that. It requires so much more effort. So, I don't know about time, but it does
So, I don't know about time, but it does require more energy and it does require
require more energy and it does require more effort until you learn how to do
more effort until you learn how to do it. So, I I once had a patient who um I
it. So, I I once had a patient who um I was in training at the time. They were
was in training at the time. They were an adolescent and they had all kinds of
an adolescent and they had all kinds of behavioral problems. So, this was a kid
behavioral problems. So, this was a kid who would start fights, um, would smear
who would start fights, um, would smear feces all over the bathroom at school
feces all over the bathroom at school and like what everyone does, this is so
and like what everyone does, this is so sad, but what everyone when someone does
sad, but what everyone when someone does something really crappy, what we want to
something really crappy, what we want to do is punish them. But if you want to
do is punish them. But if you want to stop that behavior, what you really need
stop that behavior, what you really need is compassion.
is compassion. >> So, if you sort of think about judgment,
>> So, if you sort of think about judgment, judgment is like a narrowing, right? So,
judgment is like a narrowing, right? So, I'm saying like you are bad. So there
I'm saying like you are bad. So there are a couple of things that create
are a couple of things that create judgment in the brain. The first is
judgment in the brain. The first is activation of negative emotion.
activation of negative emotion. If my adrenaline is high or if I feel
If my adrenaline is high or if I feel angry or afraid or anxious, this does
angry or afraid or anxious, this does something really interesting. It narrows
something really interesting. It narrows our peripheral vision from 180° to 30°.
our peripheral vision from 180° to 30°. >> Wow. So literally when if I were angry
>> Wow. So literally when if I were angry with you right now, I would be zoomed in
with you right now, I would be zoomed in on you because you were the threat. You
on you because you were the threat. You were the danger. The really interesting
were the danger. The really interesting thing is that it does that
thing is that it does that psychologically too.
psychologically too. >> We stopped seeing context when this
>> We stopped seeing context when this person dumped me.
person dumped me. >> Oh, that's so good.
>> Oh, that's so good. >> I didn't think about what's going on in
>> I didn't think about what's going on in their not even dumped when this person
their not even dumped when this person said no, I don't want to go on a date. I
said no, I don't want to go on a date. I didn't think about what's going on in
didn't think about what's going on in their life. I didn't think about the way
their life. I didn't think about the way I smell. I didn't think about any of
I smell. I didn't think about any of those things. All I see is that hurt and
those things. All I see is that hurt and it causes me to see red.
it causes me to see red. >> Wow.
>> Wow. >> And then I will snap into judgment. And
>> And then I will snap into judgment. And this is evolutionary, by the way.
this is evolutionary, by the way. >> So when a tiger when I'm like working
>> So when a tiger when I'm like working the fields and a tiger shows up, I don't
the fields and a tiger shows up, I don't want to be like, hm, I wonder what how
want to be like, hm, I wonder what how that tiger's feeling today. Like is the
that tiger's feeling today. Like is the tiger hungry? Is they not hungry? So
tiger hungry? Is they not hungry? So this is evolutionary. Fear and anger
this is evolutionary. Fear and anger cause us to zoom in, see black and
cause us to zoom in, see black and white, and act before we think, which is
white, and act before we think, which is the only way that we survive.
the only way that we survive. So what we really need to do to stop
So what we really need to do to stop judgment is to lower those emotions.
judgment is to lower those emotions. >> And we see this so much with Israel,
>> And we see this so much with Israel, Palestine, Democrats, Republicans,
Palestine, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, men, women,
liberals, conservatives, men, women, right? Everyone is angry. Everyone is
right? Everyone is angry. Everyone is fighting for survival. And when you
fighting for survival. And when you fight for survival, there's no room for
fight for survival, there's no room for compassion. There's no room for empathy.
compassion. There's no room for empathy. There's no room for understanding.
There's no room for understanding. So what we need to do is two things. One
So what we need to do is two things. One is if someone is coming at you really
is if someone is coming at you really hard, try to be compassionate.
hard, try to be compassionate. And this is what's really interesting.
And this is what's really interesting. You know, it's like weird like being
You know, it's like weird like being trained as a psychiatrist, like we get
trained as a psychiatrist, like we get trained in this stuff formally. It's
trained in this stuff formally. It's really hard to do. But when a patient
really hard to do. But when a patient comes into my office, you know, like and
comes into my office, you know, like and like like you're terrible and
like like you're terrible and psychiatrists are all terrible and like,
psychiatrists are all terrible and like, you know, like I hate being here and I
you know, like I hate being here and I don't need to be here and all y'all
don't need to be here and all y'all you're just trying to scam me. Like big
you're just trying to scam me. Like big pharma is paying you to fill people up
pharma is paying you to fill people up with meds. The natural reaction is like,
with meds. The natural reaction is like, "No, they're not. No, I'm not." You
"No, they're not. No, I'm not." You know, no, no, no, no, no. But I'll be
know, no, no, no, no, no. But I'll be like, "Okay, hold on a second. I can see
like, "Okay, hold on a second. I can see you're really upset, but tell me like
you're really upset, but tell me like why you hate psychiatrists so much. Like
why you hate psychiatrists so much. Like what have been your experiences? I'd
what have been your experiences? I'd really like to understand." And when
really like to understand." And when someone comes at you with hard emotional
someone comes at you with hard emotional energy, if you sort of make yourself
energy, if you sort of make yourself like water, if you kind of give them
like water, if you kind of give them that space, they kind of deflate,
that space, they kind of deflate, >> right? So, if I come at you, like I, you
>> right? So, if I come at you, like I, you know, I argue with my wife all the time,
know, I argue with my wife all the time, and if I come at her hard, like she's
and if I come at her hard, like she's done an awesome job recently of like
done an awesome job recently of like really handling my anger where I I would
really handling my anger where I I would come at her hard and she would fight
come at her hard and she would fight back, right? And if she comes at me
back, right? And if she comes at me hard, like I'll fight back. We've done a
hard, like I'll fight back. We've done a really good job of like giving each
really good job of like giving each other space. Like I get you, you're
other space. Like I get you, you're pissed. Like tell me more. Let me
pissed. Like tell me more. Let me understand. Help me understand. So don't
understand. Help me understand. So don't respond to that negative energy with
respond to that negative energy with like a negative emotional energy. It'll
like a negative emotional energy. It'll narrow your view. And for those that you
narrow your view. And for those that you judge.
judge. So So if someone is coming at you, I
So So if someone is coming at you, I think you got to cool off a little bit,
think you got to cool off a little bit, right? So and then if someone is coming
right? So and then if someone is coming at you, try to be compassionate towards
at you, try to be compassionate towards them. Now this is where a lot of people
them. Now this is where a lot of people get tripped up because they think
get tripped up because they think compassion means giving them what they
compassion means giving them what they want.
want. So sometimes people will come in will be
So sometimes people will come in will be like I need rtoolin. I need aderall. I
like I need rtoolin. I need aderall. I need it. I need it. I need it. Don't you
need it. I need it. I need it. Don't you understand doc? If you don't give me
understand doc? If you don't give me this, everything's going to fall apart
this, everything's going to fall apart and things like that. And I'm like,
and things like that. And I'm like, okay, look, I already prescribed you
okay, look, I already prescribed you once. I told you that if you lose your
once. I told you that if you lose your medication, I'm not going to prescribe
medication, I'm not going to prescribe it to you again. I totally feel that
it to you again. I totally feel that these consequences are there. I'm not
these consequences are there. I'm not going to give you more meds.
going to give you more meds. Right? But I recognize that doing that
Right? But I recognize that doing that is going to put you in a really tough
is going to put you in a really tough spot. I'm going to hold my boundary, but
spot. I'm going to hold my boundary, but with compassion.
with compassion. >> What else can I do? Do you want a
>> What else can I do? Do you want a non-stimulant medication? Do you want to
non-stimulant medication? Do you want to do some other things? Do you want me to
do some other things? Do you want me to write a letter to your professor telling
write a letter to your professor telling you that, you know, your ADHD is
you that, you know, your ADHD is particularly bad right now? I don't have
particularly bad right now? I don't have to include details of your clinical
to include details of your clinical history, but say, "Can you please give
history, but say, "Can you please give him an extension for medical reasons?
him an extension for medical reasons? I'm happy to work with you. I'm I'm
I'm happy to work with you. I'm I'm going to hold my boundary, but I'm going
going to hold my boundary, but I'm going to be as compassionate as possible."
to be as compassionate as possible." >> And what a lot of people think is that
>> And what a lot of people think is that compassion means letting people run all
compassion means letting people run all over you. That's not what it means. So
over you. That's not what it means. So you want to be compassionate but you
you want to be compassionate but you want to be stable. Now if you if you are
want to be stable. Now if you if you are feeling judgmental I think take a step
feeling judgmental I think take a step back take a breath. Also pay attention
back take a breath. Also pay attention to the way that you are indoctrinating
to the way that you are indoctrinating your mind. Right? So if we're spending a
your mind. Right? So if we're spending a lot of time on social media if we're
lot of time on social media if we're like watching like spending time in echo
like watching like spending time in echo chambers your judgment is going to be
chambers your judgment is going to be through the roof. And oftentimes if you
through the roof. And oftentimes if you are judging someone else, sit down and
are judging someone else, sit down and let them add their human context to your
let them add their human context to your projection. You think this person is
projection. You think this person is doing this and they're doing this and
doing this and they're doing this and they're like this and they're like this
they're like this and they're like this and all women are like this, all men are
and all women are like this, all men are like this. No, that I don't know about
like this. No, that I don't know about all men or all women, but this human
all men or all women, but this human being is not all of those things.
being is not all of those things. >> They're a unique human being. And as you
>> They're a unique human being. And as you train yourself, and it ain't easy. This
train yourself, and it ain't easy. This is where doing some emotional regulation
is where doing some emotional regulation practices and things like that like
practices and things like that like nadish pranayam and activating your
nadish pranayam and activating your parasympathetic nervous system and
parasympathetic nervous system and stuff. We have a guide to meditation
stuff. We have a guide to meditation that's all about that kind of stuff but
that's all about that kind of stuff but I'm sure you're familiar with you know
I'm sure you're familiar with you know alternate nostal breathing and things.
alternate nostal breathing and things. Um so as you do those kinds of things
Um so as you do those kinds of things and you like emotionally regulate as you
and you like emotionally regulate as you calm down then you'll be able to do that
calm down then you'll be able to do that but that requires a lot of energy and
but that requires a lot of energy and effort like you're spot on. Reacting is
effort like you're spot on. Reacting is really easy. one of the most
really easy. one of the most draining things. So, if you look at
draining things. So, if you look at willpower as a battery, one of the top
willpower as a battery, one of the top drainers of willpower is regulating your
drainers of willpower is regulating your emotions. It is the most emotionally
emotions. It is the most emotionally taxing thing you can do. So, it's hard,
taxing thing you can do. So, it's hard, >> but then you'll get better at it.
>> but then you'll get better at it. >> That's a brilliant answer. The idea that
>> That's a brilliant answer. The idea that anxiety, anger, and fear narrow your
anxiety, anger, and fear narrow your viewpoint and therefore don't give you
viewpoint and therefore don't give you the ability to see everything else in
the ability to see everything else in the context around it is such a such a
the context around it is such a such a useful lesson to know why that's
useful lesson to know why that's happening and how to regulate it. And
happening and how to regulate it. And I'm thinking about talking about your
I'm thinking about talking about your wife. I was thinking about something
wife. I was thinking about something with my wife. She sent me an idea
with my wife. She sent me an idea recently for a new venture that she
recently for a new venture that she wanted to start.
wanted to start. And in my head, all the fear and anxiety
And in my head, all the fear and anxiety went off. And I messaged back and I was
went off. And I messaged back and I was like, "Yeah, no, but I don't think it's
like, "Yeah, no, but I don't think it's going to work." Like, you know, she just
going to work." Like, you know, she just shared an idea. She' I'm really excited
shared an idea. She' I'm really excited about this. And my response was like,
about this. And my response was like, "Yeah, I don't think that's going to
"Yeah, I don't think that's going to work. And here are all the reasons why
work. And here are all the reasons why it's not going to work. And maybe we can
it's not going to work. And maybe we can do it in like 5 years." Like all this
do it in like 5 years." Like all this stuff. And then again, my yeah, my
stuff. And then again, my yeah, my wife's amazing at this. And she just
wife's amazing at this. And she just called me out in the most compassionate,
called me out in the most compassionate, loving way. And she was just like, "Hey,
loving way. And she was just like, "Hey, I was just sharing something I was
I was just sharing something I was excited about. I wasn't saying we have
excited about. I wasn't saying we have to do it. I wasn't saying we need to do
to do it. I wasn't saying we need to do it. And I I would have just loved for
it. And I I would have just loved for you to just at least hear my idea out."
you to just at least hear my idea out." Yeah,
Yeah, >> right.
>> right. Tell me what you're excited about. And
Tell me what you're excited about. And it's so interesting because I would
it's so interesting because I would generally do that in that moment. My
generally do that in that moment. My anxiet the reason why I didn't I'm now
anxiet the reason why I didn't I'm now reflecting back
reflecting back >> was my anxiety, my fear, my uh there
>> was my anxiety, my fear, my uh there wasn't any anger, but my anxiety and
wasn't any anger, but my anxiety and fear were high.
fear were high. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And therefore, my response was not
>> And therefore, my response was not helpful. And therefore, if my wife had
helpful. And therefore, if my wife had not been as involved as she is, then we
not been as involved as she is, then we would have just had a full-blown
would have just had a full-blown argument about nothing. Yeah. The one
argument about nothing. Yeah. The one thing that really shocks me is how much
thing that really shocks me is how much yogic training and psychiatry training
yogic training and psychiatry training don't prepare me to be a good husband.
don't prepare me to be a good husband. >> That's a great
>> That's a great >> like being a good husband and a father
>> like being a good husband and a father actually. So like
actually. So like >> But it does prepare you. It's just we're
>> But it does prepare you. It's just we're not I mean so that's that's the crazy
not I mean so that's that's the crazy thing man. And I think like I I thought
thing man. And I think like I I thought I was like, "Oh, I got this stuff on on
I was like, "Oh, I got this stuff on on lockdown, you know, like I'm yogi and
lockdown, you know, like I'm yogi and I'm doctor. Like great, it's going to be
I'm doctor. Like great, it's going to be No, it's like it's really hard.
No, it's like it's really hard. >> Yeah. Like my my wife brings out like
>> Yeah. Like my my wife brings out like some of my worst tendencies and I really
some of my worst tendencies and I really have to work on it."
have to work on it." >> And she's awesome. It's like I turn into
>> And she's awesome. It's like I turn into a different person around her in like
a different person around her in like not a good way.
not a good way. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> You know,
>> You know, >> and and so I think that's also healthy
>> and and so I think that's also healthy in a sense because she's not a patient
in a sense because she's not a patient of mine. She's not like a client or
of mine. She's not like a client or someone in a meditation class or
someone in a meditation class or whatever. And when I go into
whatever. And when I go into psychiatrist mode, it pisses her off a
psychiatrist mode, it pisses her off a lot of course. Like, oh, tell me how you
lot of course. Like, oh, tell me how you feel. It's like,
feel. It's like, >> yeah, don't tell me it doesn't work on
>> yeah, don't tell me it doesn't work on me.
me. >> Yeah. So, I think it's it's it's hard
>> Yeah. So, I think it's it's it's hard for everyone, myself included, and it's
for everyone, myself included, and it's been shocking like how much you really
been shocking like how much you really have to train like I have to train
have to train like I have to train myself like every single day to try to
myself like every single day to try to be a better husband.
be a better husband. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think because that's
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think because that's I I think it's so common that the person
I I think it's so common that the person that you love the most in the world
that you love the most in the world sadly gets to see the worst of you.
sadly gets to see the worst of you. Absolutely, man. the totality of you,
Absolutely, man. the totality of you, the the 360deree view of you. And and
the the 360deree view of you. And and there's a beauty to that, too, because
there's a beauty to that, too, because you feel you can show it to them. You
you feel you can show it to them. You you can't show that to anyone else. And
you can't show that to anyone else. And obviously, we don't want, again, I'm not
obviously, we don't want, again, I'm not encouraging or condoning physical,
encouraging or condoning physical, verbal abuse in any way, and that's not
verbal abuse in any way, and that's not what I mean. But there's a beauty in
what I mean. But there's a beauty in being able to show your full self to
being able to show your full self to someone with the vulnerability of it, as
someone with the vulnerability of it, as long as it's not harming them.
long as it's not harming them. >> Yeah. and for them to help you with it
>> Yeah. and for them to help you with it and for you to help them back. That's
and for you to help them back. That's why I think that is that one
why I think that is that one relationship. I don't I don't think
relationship. I don't I don't think anyone knows me better than my wife.
anyone knows me better than my wife. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> It's the only person who knows what
>> It's the only person who knows what you're doing at 6:00 a.m. and what
you're doing at 6:00 a.m. and what you're doing at midnight and you know
you're doing at midnight and you know everything else in between. And so it's
everything else in between. And so it's beautiful. But I wanted to touch on
beautiful. But I wanted to touch on something with you that I wanted to talk
something with you that I wanted to talk to you about actually because I've I've
to you about actually because I've I've watched so many of interviews and I've
watched so many of interviews and I've been today's my my intention and my
been today's my my intention and my focus has been to really mind that
focus has been to really mind that spiritual clinician side in you and to
spiritual clinician side in you and to and to find some of that maybe more
and to find some of that maybe more ethereal stuff which which you're such a
ethereal stuff which which you're such a deep expert in as well because I think
deep expert in as well because I think the two complement each other so
the two complement each other so wonderfully in your expertise. What is
wonderfully in your expertise. What is that spiritual evolution that's being
that spiritual evolution that's being demanded of humanity right now? When you
demanded of humanity right now? When you mentioned it earlier, you like we've
mentioned it earlier, you like we've kind of reached the peak of our material
kind of reached the peak of our material evolution based on ego development. What
evolution based on ego development. What is the spiritual evolution that's that
is the spiritual evolution that's that we're being invited to?
we're being invited to? >> Yeah. So, I I think um this is where
>> Yeah. So, I I think um this is where like I got to start with a big
like I got to start with a big disclaimer. So, I think this is where
disclaimer. So, I think this is where like we're talking about spiritual
like we're talking about spiritual evolution which is not clear whether
evolution which is not clear whether this stuff even exists from a scientific
this stuff even exists from a scientific perspective. So I may touch on studies
perspective. So I may touch on studies and things like that on neuroscience and
and things like that on neuroscience and meditation and brain changes. So there's
meditation and brain changes. So there's some evidence of this stuff, but there's
some evidence of this stuff, but there's a lot of stuff in the spiritual
a lot of stuff in the spiritual traditions
traditions which there's no scientific evidence
which there's no scientific evidence for. So before I even started med
for. So before I even started med school, I was in a
school, I was in a >> Yeah. Yet
>> Yeah. Yet >> I was in a Taichi lab, a neuroscience
>> I was in a Taichi lab, a neuroscience taichi lab at at Harvard. And so we were
taichi lab at at Harvard. And so we were trying to understand this like concept
trying to understand this like concept ofqi or brana or life energy. And so the
ofqi or brana or life energy. And so the really interesting thing about this kind
really interesting thing about this kind of stuff is that there's no scientific
of stuff is that there's no scientific evidence that it exists.
evidence that it exists. But when you do a practice
But when you do a practice that supposedly activates this stuff, it
that supposedly activates this stuff, it outperforms physical exercise like yoga
outperforms physical exercise like yoga for example, right? Or taichi. So we
for example, right? Or taichi. So we were studying Taichi. And so there seems
were studying Taichi. And so there seems to be like something where like the
to be like something where like the health benefit is greater than physical
health benefit is greater than physical exercise, but we can't really detect.
exercise, but we can't really detect. What are you measuring to know that it's
What are you measuring to know that it's greater than physical exercise?
greater than physical exercise? >> I mean, it depends. So, uh you know, one
>> I mean, it depends. So, uh you know, one of my early mentors was um uh Dr. Wong
of my early mentors was um uh Dr. Wong would has a great paper in the New
would has a great paper in the New England Journal of Medicine on Taichi
England Journal of Medicine on Taichi and arthritis. So, she's just measuring
and arthritis. So, she's just measuring the improvement of arthritis if I give
the improvement of arthritis if I give Taichi, if I do exercise, and Taichi is
Taichi, if I do exercise, and Taichi is superior. So, I was trying to study the
superior. So, I was trying to study the mechanism of that and the mechanism is
mechanism of that and the mechanism is is super interesting. So, I was in a
is super interesting. So, I was in a chronic pain lab. And the really
chronic pain lab. And the really interesting thing about chronic pain is
interesting thing about chronic pain is that it locks your brain into like one
that it locks your brain into like one part of your body. So, someone who has
part of your body. So, someone who has chronic pain, they're always thinking
chronic pain, they're always thinking about what hurts.
about what hurts. >> Yeah, that's so true. And and then what
>> Yeah, that's so true. And and then what happens when we do yoga or ta chi is
happens when we do yoga or ta chi is that we're putting our body in different
that we're putting our body in different places to where if I'm like if I'm
places to where if I'm like if I'm standing on one leg and twisting myself
standing on one leg and twisting myself into a pretzel, my brain is focusing on
into a pretzel, my brain is focusing on other parts of my body. And that trains
other parts of my body. And that trains my brain to move away from
my brain to move away from the hurting part. And then once I move
the hurting part. And then once I move away from the hurting part, then I feel
away from the hurting part, then I feel it less. And so the pain actually feels
it less. And so the pain actually feels better.
better. >> And this is also what we do mentally
>> And this is also what we do mentally with yoga and stuff. It's like, let me
with yoga and stuff. It's like, let me move away from this ruminative thinking.
move away from this ruminative thinking. Let me return my attention to the
Let me return my attention to the breath. So, you're literally training
breath. So, you're literally training your brain to do what you tell it to.
your brain to do what you tell it to. >> Well, it's it's just what you said right
>> Well, it's it's just what you said right at the beginning, which was thinking
at the beginning, which was thinking about yourself versus paying attention.
about yourself versus paying attention. >> Absolutely. Right. So, it the beautiful
>> Absolutely. Right. So, it the beautiful thing about yoga and taichi is that they
thing about yoga and taichi is that they force you to observe yourself.
force you to observe yourself. >> Cuz once you stand on one leg, so you
>> Cuz once you stand on one leg, so you can do a simple like So, I'll challenge
can do a simple like So, I'll challenge everybody in your audience to just raise
everybody in your audience to just raise their arm. That's it. I just want them
their arm. That's it. I just want them to raise their arm and we're just going
to raise their arm and we're just going to continue talking. Okay? We're just
to continue talking. Okay? We're just going to have a conversation and over
going to have a conversation and over time what's going to happen. You don't
time what's going to happen. You don't have to do it
have to do it >> because I want to converse with you. You
>> because I want to converse with you. You won't be able to converse, right? So
won't be able to converse, right? So people are going to pay attention if
people are going to pay attention if they're still doing it and then the
they're still doing it and then the longer we go they're not going to be
longer we go they're not going to be able to hear anything we're saying. We
able to hear anything we're saying. We are forcing our attention over here.
are forcing our attention over here. >> So the change of our attention becomes
>> So the change of our attention becomes really really important.
really really important. >> Anyway, I was talking about Tai Chi and
>> Anyway, I was talking about Tai Chi and chronic pain but you asked a question
chronic pain but you asked a question about phys physical and spiritual
about phys physical and spiritual evolution. So the first thing to
evolution. So the first thing to understand is why have we stopped phys
understand is why have we stopped phys physically evolving? because we started
physically evolving? because we started shaping our environment.
shaping our environment. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> So evolution happens in order for us to
>> So evolution happens in order for us to adapt to our environment. But once I
adapt to our environment. But once I start building cars, creating air
start building cars, creating air conditioning, having cell phones, what
conditioning, having cell phones, what we are doing is we are shaping our
we are doing is we are shaping our environment to let whatever I am now
environment to let whatever I am now continue to exist this way. I don't need
continue to exist this way. I don't need to grow. Right? If I shape my
to grow. Right? If I shape my environment around me, if I'm a
environment around me, if I'm a narcissist and I surround myself by
narcissist and I surround myself by people who will say, "Yes, you're great.
people who will say, "Yes, you're great. You're great. You're great." I will
You're great. You're great." I will never need to conquer that narcissism.
never need to conquer that narcissism. So I think there's a couple of things
So I think there's a couple of things going on in terms of spiritual evolution
going on in terms of spiritual evolution and those things are
and those things are somewhat reliable to completely crazy.
somewhat reliable to completely crazy. So like take this with a grain of salt.
So like take this with a grain of salt. So I think the first thing is that first
So I think the first thing is that first stage of spiritual evolution is that
stage of spiritual evolution is that since we're shaping our environment in
since we're shaping our environment in this way, our environment is making lots
this way, our environment is making lots of changes to our brain and lots of
of changes to our brain and lots of changes to our mind. So this is why we
changes to our mind. So this is why we have a mental health crisis. Like it's
have a mental health crisis. Like it's so weird, right? Science is progressing.
so weird, right? Science is progressing. We have more neuroscience papers than
We have more neuroscience papers than ever before. We have so many fMRI labs
ever before. We have so many fMRI labs and things like that. Our understanding
and things like that. Our understanding of the brain and the mind is increasing,
of the brain and the mind is increasing, but people are getting worse. So the
but people are getting worse. So the next stage of evolution that we need in
next stage of evolution that we need in your own life, I use the word loosely,
your own life, I use the word loosely, but maybe not so much, but is actually
but maybe not so much, but is actually like evolving your mind, right? And I
like evolving your mind, right? And I know that sounds kind of weird. evolving
know that sounds kind of weird. evolving your brain like like learning how to
your brain like like learning how to change yourself which is what evolution
change yourself which is what evolution is to survive and thrive in this level
is to survive and thrive in this level of the world around us. So this is
of the world around us. So this is starts with stuff like ego like we
starts with stuff like ego like we talked about emotional regulation not
talked about emotional regulation not letting these some scars or emotional
letting these some scars or emotional baggage pile up. You have to do a ton of
baggage pile up. You have to do a ton of mental training to survive in today's
mental training to survive in today's world. Then there's like other weird
world. Then there's like other weird things going on. So like the other weird
things going on. So like the other weird stuff is like when you start talk more
stuff is like when you start talk more about these spiritual traditions. So,
about these spiritual traditions. So, weird stuff.
weird stuff. There's a study that was done on DMT
There's a study that was done on DMT that 92%
that 92% of DMT users will encounter other
of DMT users will encounter other worldly beings.
worldly beings. >> Now, we have no scientific evidence of
>> Now, we have no scientific evidence of this except I think this is kind of
this except I think this is kind of could be argued as scientific evidence.
could be argued as scientific evidence. I'm not saying it's it's it's complete
I'm not saying it's it's it's complete evidence, but now what we have is we
evidence, but now what we have is we have something like a telescope where if
have something like a telescope where if I if I like look through a te or a
I if I like look through a te or a microscope, if I look through a
microscope, if I look through a microscope and I see a lot a lot of
microscope and I see a lot a lot of bacteria, you can't see that with the
bacteria, you can't see that with the naked eye. But if I use this technology,
naked eye. But if I use this technology, I can see something that my normal
I can see something that my normal perception cannot allow me to see.
perception cannot allow me to see. So I think what we're starting to do
So I think what we're starting to do with meditation is this is a this is a
with meditation is this is a this is a spiritual technology and there are some
spiritual technology and there are some meditation techniques that will give you
meditation techniques that will give you insight into your past lives that has
insight into your past lives that has been very helpful for some of my
been very helpful for some of my patients with trauma that they have this
patients with trauma that they have this trauma that doesn't come from this life.
trauma that doesn't come from this life. It actually like seems like it sort of
It actually like seems like it sort of comes from a past life. I can go into
comes from a past life. I can go into detail. I know it's unbelievable. But
detail. I know it's unbelievable. But there's a great uh researcher out of the
there's a great uh researcher out of the University of Virginia who's been
University of Virginia who's been looking at like past life research.
looking at like past life research. Occasionally some crazy scientists will
Occasionally some crazy scientists will get into the stuff. So I I think that we
get into the stuff. So I I think that we we are sort of being able to detect
we are sort of being able to detect things that are kind of beyond it. And I
things that are kind of beyond it. And I think this is where things get kind of
think this is where things get kind of weird, but like it's so strange, but if
weird, but like it's so strange, but if I was talking to a bunch of my friends
I was talking to a bunch of my friends who are neuroscientists or neurologists
who are neuroscientists or neurologists and I was asking them, what proof do we
and I was asking them, what proof do we have that thoughts exist from a
have that thoughts exist from a scientific perspective? We have none. We
scientific perspective? We have none. We can't detect thoughts, right? We can
can't detect thoughts, right? We can What does an fMRI or an EEG detect? EEG
What does an fMRI or an EEG detect? EEG detects electrical activity in the
detects electrical activity in the brain. fMRI detects blood flow. Neither
brain. fMRI detects blood flow. Neither of those things are thoughts. So, it's
of those things are thoughts. So, it's kind of weird, but we have no proof of
kind of weird, but we have no proof of the existence of thought. So, I was
the existence of thought. So, I was trying to figure out, okay, what's going
trying to figure out, okay, what's going on then scientifically? Some people
on then scientifically? Some people think it's like imagination.
think it's like imagination. >> I think what's going on is that there's
>> I think what's going on is that there's a certain realm of human experience
a certain realm of human experience which we can't detect with an instrument
which we can't detect with an instrument yet.
yet. >> So, this is subjective experience. It's
>> So, this is subjective experience. It's consciousness. It's thinking. And so I
consciousness. It's thinking. And so I think that we don't have a measurement
think that we don't have a measurement of consciousness, but that doesn't mean
of consciousness, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. This is where a lot of
it doesn't exist. This is where a lot of people I think disagree with me. So some
people I think disagree with me. So some people will say since we can't detect it
people will say since we can't detect it scientifically, that means it doesn't
scientifically, that means it doesn't exist. I think that human beings can
exist. I think that human beings can observe it. It's a conserved human
observe it. It's a conserved human experience. We everyone can observe
experience. We everyone can observe their own thinking. I think it exists.
their own thinking. I think it exists. We just haven't developed the ruler for
We just haven't developed the ruler for consciousness yet. Mhm.
consciousness yet. Mhm. >> So the other area of spiritual evolution
>> So the other area of spiritual evolution is to evolve your consciousness. So to
is to evolve your consciousness. So to take your conscious experience, use some
take your conscious experience, use some of these more esoteric meditation
of these more esoteric meditation techniques which is usually how this is
techniques which is usually how this is done like condundalini sadena and stuff
done like condundalini sadena and stuff like that. So as you do these weird kind
like that. So as you do these weird kind of like chakra sadas and stuff like that
of like chakra sadas and stuff like that you will start to have it's hard to
you will start to have it's hard to describe a change in your subjective
describe a change in your subjective experience of the world.
experience of the world. >> Mh. So, as I move through the world,
>> Mh. So, as I move through the world, right, I I try, but I also like start to
right, I I try, but I also like start to see, okay, bad stuff happens to me. I'm
see, okay, bad stuff happens to me. I'm not so worried about it anymore. This is
not so worried about it anymore. This is a negative karma. That's sort of the
a negative karma. That's sort of the logical way to explain it, but that's
logical way to explain it, but that's not how it feels on the inside.
not how it feels on the inside. >> So, I recognize that there are periods
>> So, I recognize that there are periods of my my life where like negative
of my my life where like negative karmmas are manifesting. So, I'm like,
karmmas are manifesting. So, I'm like, let them come. Let them come. Let them
let them come. Let them come. Let them come. Like, I'm going to work through
come. Like, I'm going to work through it. I have to work through this stuff.
it. I have to work through this stuff. There's some kind of bad energy out
There's some kind of bad energy out there. And I realize how indefensible
there. And I realize how indefensible that is. But I really think that's
that is. But I really think that's what's going on. And so a lot of people
what's going on. And so a lot of people are are needing to evolve. They're
are are needing to evolve. They're hungry for this evolution. They're
hungry for this evolution. They're hungry for like this world around me.
hungry for like this world around me. Even if we talk about growth and goals
Even if we talk about growth and goals and ambitions, this is not satisfying.
and ambitions, this is not satisfying. They need to grow in a different
They need to grow in a different dimension. And I don't mean that like oh
dimension. And I don't mean that like oh there's like alternate I mean like there
there's like alternate I mean like there is material growth there is professional
is material growth there is professional growth there is academic growth and
growth there is academic growth and there is growth just within you to be
there is growth just within you to be able to experience different kinds of
able to experience different kinds of things to be able to understand like how
things to be able to understand like how you connect to other people that's a
you connect to other people that's a level of spiritual evolution
level of spiritual evolution >> and when I work with my patients what I
>> and when I work with my patients what I oftentimes you know will start with is
oftentimes you know will start with is like meditations to help them treat
like meditations to help them treat depression but eventually it's like okay
depression but eventually it's like okay if you're depressed because you know you
if you're depressed because you know you think you're a loser. Let's see if we
think you're a loser. Let's see if we can cultivate an experience of
can cultivate an experience of cosmic connectedness. And if you have
cosmic connectedness. And if you have that experience, and this is also what
that experience, and this is also what we know from psychedelics,
we know from psychedelics, you can use a psychedelic that's not
you can use a psychedelic that's not healing. Specifically, you can ask
healing. Specifically, you can ask someone what happened to you when you
someone what happened to you when you were using a psychedelic. If they had an
were using a psychedelic. If they had an ego death experience, that correlates
ego death experience, that correlates with treatment improvement in treatment
with treatment improvement in treatment refractory depression. that improvement
refractory depression. that improvement uh that correlates with improvement in
uh that correlates with improvement in trauma. But if all you see is colors and
trauma. But if all you see is colors and synesthesia and stuff like that,
synesthesia and stuff like that, clinical symptoms don't appear to get
clinical symptoms don't appear to get better.
better. >> And this is what we know from our
>> And this is what we know from our traditions, right? Is like as you have
traditions, right? Is like as you have these higher senses of consciousness,
these higher senses of consciousness, the aamara, the ego starts to dissolve.
the aamara, the ego starts to dissolve. Your atman blends with the cosmic soul.
Your atman blends with the cosmic soul. And like we can sort of duplicate that
And like we can sort of duplicate that in a lab now at least the subjective
in a lab now at least the subjective experience of it. Then that gets to the
experience of it. Then that gets to the question of is that subjective
question of is that subjective experience real or not? I think it's
experience real or not? I think it's absolutely functionally useful. We can
absolutely functionally useful. We can detect the change. We can detect the
detect the change. We can detect the health benefit in it. So I think that
health benefit in it. So I think that spiritual evolution that we're seeing is
spiritual evolution that we're seeing is like at the level of consciousness. And
like at the level of consciousness. And hopefully I've tried to explain that in
hopefully I've tried to explain that in a somewhat mechanistic or technical way.
a somewhat mechanistic or technical way. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fascinating.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's fascinating. >> I also think this is where I get really
>> I also think this is where I get really weird. I think it's weird, but if you
weird. I think it's weird, but if you look at the world, we're all moving in
look at the world, we're all moving in this direction.
this direction. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> Like meditation is exploding, right? we
>> Like meditation is exploding, right? we have like you know champions of it like
have like you know champions of it like you and you've spread a lot of knowledge
you and you've spread a lot of knowledge about it like something weird is going
about it like something weird is going on where from a scientific perspective
on where from a scientific perspective it makes sense that we have all these
it makes sense that we have all these like technology things and we need some
like technology things and we need some kind of antidote to that from a
kind of antidote to that from a neurochemical perspective I think that
neurochemical perspective I think that makes sense but I do feel like we're all
makes sense but I do feel like we're all being called to meditate more
being called to meditate more >> yeah but then going back to that mental
>> yeah but then going back to that mental training point that we all have
training point that we all have it goes back to that same point that you
it goes back to that same point that you brought up earlier we're all being
brought up earlier we're all being called to do this but then we struggle
called to do this but then we struggle to do
to do and we can't. We try once, we let go. We
and we can't. We try once, we let go. We know we need to work out. Everyone knows
know we need to work out. Everyone knows they need 10,000 steps a day. We don't
they need 10,000 steps a day. We don't get 10,000 steps a day. Everyone knows
get 10,000 steps a day. Everyone knows they need to eat better, but we're
they need to eat better, but we're still, you know, making all the fast
still, you know, making all the fast food companies rich and wealthier.
food companies rich and wealthier. What's the disconnect there?
What's the disconnect there? So, I think the biggest disconnect is
So, I think the biggest disconnect is information doesn't change behavior.
information doesn't change behavior. So like you know I had a patient once
So like you know I had a patient once this was bad but I had a patient once
this was bad but I had a patient once who was I was a medical student and so
who was I was a medical student and so they come in and and they smoke and I
they come in and and they smoke and I try to tell him hey so like smoking will
try to tell him hey so like smoking will give you lung cancer smoking will give
give you lung cancer smoking will give you heart disease and he's like yeah doc
you heart disease and he's like yeah doc I know and I was like I'm a medical
I know and I was like I'm a medical student. He's like yeah I know but
student. He's like yeah I know but you're a doc basically. He's like yeah
you're a doc basically. He's like yeah doc I know. He's like I'll stop. I'll
doc I know. He's like I'll stop. I'll quit. I promise. Comes in a month later.
quit. I promise. Comes in a month later. How's your smoking? Oh yeah I know I'm
How's your smoking? Oh yeah I know I'm supposed to. It's not working. And I was
supposed to. It's not working. And I was like okay maybe you want some medication
like okay maybe you want some medication for that. And he's like, "Sure, doc.
for that. And he's like, "Sure, doc. Give you the medication." Comes in a
Give you the medication." Comes in a month later. Are you taking the
month later. Are you taking the medication? Not really. Okay, let's give
medication? Not really. Okay, let's give you like let's try nicotine gum. Like,
you like let's try nicotine gum. Like, let's try this. He's not doing it. Not
let's try this. He's not doing it. Not doing it. Not doing it. So, I was, you
doing it. Not doing it. So, I was, you know, working with my preceptor and I
know, working with my preceptor and I read some about addiction and and things
read some about addiction and and things like that and I realized like you have
like that and I realized like you have to, you know, have to motivate him. And
to, you know, have to motivate him. And so, the next time he comes in, I take a
so, the next time he comes in, I take a different approach. I'm like, "So, tell
different approach. I'm like, "So, tell me about yourself. Tell me about you
me about yourself. Tell me about you know, what you're excited about." And
know, what you're excited about." And he's like, "You know, I love being a
he's like, "You know, I love being a father. I have three daughters and you
father. I have three daughters and you know I'll die happy the moment that the
know I'll die happy the moment that the last one is married because I I know
last one is married because I I know they're being taken care of and it's
they're being taken care of and it's going to be such a great day day. Like
going to be such a great day day. Like my oldest daughter is married. It was
my oldest daughter is married. It was awesome. Like walking her down the aisle
awesome. Like walking her down the aisle was one of the best experiences I've
was one of the best experiences I've ever had. And I ask him, "Oh, great.
ever had. And I ask him, "Oh, great. When your when your second daughter gets
When your when your second daughter gets married, do you want to be wheeling an
married, do you want to be wheeling an oxygen tank behind you? And do you want
oxygen tank behind you? And do you want to be pushed in a wheelchair when your
to be pushed in a wheelchair when your third daughter gets married?" And he was
third daughter gets married?" And he was like, "No." Right? Like I said something
like, "No." Right? Like I said something that was so mean and I was like that's
that was so mean and I was like that's what's going to happen if you don't stop
what's going to happen if you don't stop smoking. And so that was brutal. I
smoking. And so that was brutal. I wouldn't recommend it. I was still
wouldn't recommend it. I was still learning. I was still a medical student.
learning. I was still a medical student. But I think a lot of behavioral change
But I think a lot of behavioral change comes from
comes from like motivation within. You have to have
like motivation within. You have to have a good reason to do it. Not in in like
a good reason to do it. Not in in like an intellectual like oh this is like I'm
an intellectual like oh this is like I'm not going to get cancer 40 years from
not going to get cancer 40 years from now. Your brain doesn't understand. So
now. Your brain doesn't understand. So this is what people don't get. When I
this is what people don't get. When I tell you like do this or you'll get
tell you like do this or you'll get cancer. How does your brain
cancer. How does your brain know what cancer feels like? So if you
know what cancer feels like? So if you touch a hot pan,
touch a hot pan, your brain knows. They're like, "Okay."
your brain knows. They're like, "Okay." And then it's hard to touch a hot pan.
And then it's hard to touch a hot pan. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> But how does your brain know this like
>> But how does your brain know this like hypothetical thing? It doesn't. So
hypothetical thing? It doesn't. So information goes into this one part of
information goes into this one part of our brain that really doesn't shape our
our brain that really doesn't shape our behavior. What shapes our behavior is
behavior. What shapes our behavior is emotions. So if you think about when you
emotions. So if you think about when you get angry, then everyone's telling you
get angry, then everyone's telling you not to act.
not to act. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> Stop. Slow down. Don't act. the but when
>> Stop. Slow down. Don't act. the but when you get angry you feel like acting. M
you get angry you feel like acting. M >> so the first thing is that we need to
>> so the first thing is that we need to focus more on finding like our right
focus more on finding like our right like the right emotional reason like
like the right emotional reason like what is the reason for your change what
what is the reason for your change what really drives you to change the more you
really drives you to change the more you connect with that then the information
connect with that then the information will become useful there's another
will become useful there's another really interesting
really interesting >> such a great answer man that's awesome
>> such a great answer man that's awesome >> so great
>> so great >> one other thing that I would say is a
>> one other thing that I would say is a lot of people don't realize I don't know
lot of people don't realize I don't know if this makes sense but there's
if this makes sense but there's something called ambivalence which is
something called ambivalence which is when we're internally conflicted and
when we're internally conflicted and anytime somebody wants to change.
anytime somebody wants to change. There's a part of us that wants to
There's a part of us that wants to change, but there's a part of us that
change, but there's a part of us that doesn't want to change.
doesn't want to change. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So, when we want to change, I tend to
>> So, when we want to change, I tend to think about the benefit. So, in this
think about the benefit. So, in this moment, my brain is telling me like, oh,
moment, my brain is telling me like, oh, like we want to get, let's get healthy,
like we want to get, let's get healthy, but but so you're thinking about the
but but so you're thinking about the benefit when you start, but as you
benefit when you start, but as you start, you see the cost. So, when I go
start, you see the cost. So, when I go to the gym, all it is is suffering. And
to the gym, all it is is suffering. And so, then what happens is like the cost
so, then what happens is like the cost gets really big in my mind because I'm
gets really big in my mind because I'm reaping the cost now. I'm feeling the
reaping the cost now. I'm feeling the cost. this is really hard and the
cost. this is really hard and the benefit is far away. So when I get
benefit is far away. So when I get started, I think about the goal. I think
started, I think about the goal. I think about the benefit, but I'm not really
about the benefit, but I'm not really appreciating the cost. When I actually
appreciating the cost. When I actually do it, I feel the cost, but don't think
do it, I feel the cost, but don't think about the benefit.
about the benefit. >> So one of the biggest mistakes that you
>> So one of the biggest mistakes that you can make is thinking about the benefit
can make is thinking about the benefit when you want to do something
when you want to do something >> interesting.
>> interesting. >> So instead, what you should do is
>> So instead, what you should do is actually focus on the cost. Tell
actually focus on the cost. Tell yourself, okay, this is going to be
yourself, okay, this is going to be hard.
hard. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Right. like it's going to suck going to
>> Right. like it's going to suck going to the gym and accept the cost upfront. Do
the gym and accept the cost upfront. Do I want this thing? Yes. But you need to
I want this thing? Yes. But you need to balance it. So when we have high
balance it. So when we have high expectations, we're going to have low
expectations, we're going to have low follow through.
follow through. >> And when we have low expectations, if
>> And when we have low expectations, if you say to yourself, look, this is going
you say to yourself, look, this is going to suck. I'm going to do it anyway.
to suck. I'm going to do it anyway. That's the approach you should take.
That's the approach you should take. Now, a lot of people will say like, but
Now, a lot of people will say like, but I don't do it anyway. And that's where
I don't do it anyway. And that's where you need to really dig for a reason.
you need to really dig for a reason. >> Yeah. That reason being
>> Yeah. That reason being that idea that emotion shifts behavior.
that idea that emotion shifts behavior. Mhm.
Mhm. >> And figuring out what that emotion is is
>> And figuring out what that emotion is is so critical. Like I'm thinking about
so critical. Like I'm thinking about most of my spiritual aspirations come
most of my spiritual aspirations come from a deep sense of gratitude. Like
from a deep sense of gratitude. Like that's the emotion. It's like a
that's the emotion. It's like a gratitude to my teachers. The people
gratitude to my teachers. The people that have invested so much time into my
that have invested so much time into my life when I didn't deserve it. people
life when I didn't deserve it. people that are far more enlightened and far
that are far more enlightened and far more well read and people have actually
more well read and people have actually dedicated their life who found it useful
dedicated their life who found it useful to that I found so useful and were so
to that I found so useful and were so kind to give me time and energy
kind to give me time and energy >> that's kind of what it carries from
>> that's kind of what it carries from because I'm like yeah and then there are
because I'm like yeah and then there are certain other things which coming back
certain other things which coming back to health yeah knowing that hey all my
to health yeah knowing that hey all my friends are getting cancer at 40 or 50
friends are getting cancer at 40 or 50 years old or
years old or >> oh my god is that actually happening
>> oh my god is that actually happening >> a lot of them are sadly Oh my god. Yeah.
>> a lot of them are sadly Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Really sad truth
Yeah. Really sad truth >> to recognize. Oh yeah. I I would like to
>> to recognize. Oh yeah. I I would like to if I can avoid that. What's that going
if I can avoid that. What's that going to take? What does that mean? What do I
to take? What does that mean? What do I need to shift? What do I need to you
need to shift? What do I need to you know? And and so then there's there's
know? And and so then there's there's certain motivators like gratitude that
certain motivators like gratitude that are like these beautiful wonderful
are like these beautiful wonderful feelings. And then like you said with
feelings. And then like you said with the oxygen tank example in the
the oxygen tank example in the wheelchair, there's certain emotions
wheelchair, there's certain emotions that are much more fear-based.
that are much more fear-based. >> Yeah. and and worry worry-filled. Uh and
>> Yeah. and and worry worry-filled. Uh and both are useful for different things.
both are useful for different things. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I wouldn't rely on fear.
>> Yeah. I I wouldn't rely on fear. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a good one to get
>> Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a good one to get going.
going. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Good one to get going.
>> Good one to get going. >> But yeah, I mean I I I I think it's it's
>> But yeah, I mean I I I I think it's it's it's so interesting. I I wonder if like
it's so interesting. I I wonder if like so this is you know when I work with
so this is you know when I work with people I I find first of all that that's
people I I find first of all that that's really common that there's some things
really common that there's some things some emotional veillances that they can
some emotional veillances that they can really connect to that get them moving.
really connect to that get them moving. And so usually what we try to do is
And so usually what we try to do is connect that, right? So is there some
connect that, right? So is there some way to tap into gratitude about you've
way to tap into gratitude about you've been given this body and you know like
been given this body and you know like you know like what do you owe with this
you know like what do you owe with this body or something like that? So I think
body or something like that? So I think if you sort of think about the emotions
if you sort of think about the emotions that really get you going and for a lot
that really get you going and for a lot of men like for example it's anger which
of men like for example it's anger which can actually be good right channeling
can actually be good right channeling that anger often times that will help
that anger often times that will help people bridge the gap of if there's one
people bridge the gap of if there's one thing that does get you going can you
thing that does get you going can you tie that to a thing that you want to do?
tie that to a thing that you want to do? >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've always broken
>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I've always broken it down as the um in the Bhagat Gita the
it down as the um in the Bhagat Gita the modes of material nature are there and
modes of material nature are there and so you have mode of ignorance, mode of
so you have mode of ignorance, mode of passion, mode of goodness and pure
passion, mode of goodness and pure goodness. So Thomas, Rajas and SBA and
goodness. So Thomas, Rajas and SBA and I've always seen that anger is like a
I've always seen that anger is like a Thomas motivator.
Thomas motivator. >> It's like it's it's not ideal but it
>> It's like it's it's not ideal but it gets you going.
gets you going. >> Yeah, absolutely.
>> Yeah, absolutely. >> And then rajas is more of a mode of
>> And then rajas is more of a mode of passion is kind of like having a goal,
passion is kind of like having a goal, having a desire, having an ambition like
having a desire, having an ambition like I want to get a six-pack, I want to be a
I want to get a six-pack, I want to be a millionaire, whatever. And but then
millionaire, whatever. And but then above that is goodness and pure goodness
above that is goodness and pure goodness which is more like love, gratitude, all
which is more like love, gratitude, all these emotions that are overall have a
these emotions that are overall have a much more healthier impact and have more
much more healthier impact and have more longevity to them.
longevity to them. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> They don't die when you get there.
>> They don't die when you get there. >> The really interesting thing is that I
>> The really interesting thing is that I think if you use satvic emotions, your
think if you use satvic emotions, your material success could be way lower.
material success could be way lower. >> Yeah. For sure.
>> Yeah. For sure. >> Right. So, so as you start operating
>> Right. So, so as you start operating from love and as you become a little bit
from love and as you become a little bit more detached, you may not achieve as
more detached, you may not achieve as much but you'll be happier.
much but you'll be happier. >> Yeah. Yeah. Whereas if you have a lot of
>> Yeah. Yeah. Whereas if you have a lot of mode of passion in your life, Yeah.
mode of passion in your life, Yeah. you'll be much more successful. But
you'll be much more successful. But >> you'll also have ulcers.
>> you'll also have ulcers. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. For sure. For sure. Uh I I really
>> Yeah. For sure. For sure. Uh I I really like the idea about just going back to
like the idea about just going back to that mental training piece around Yeah.
that mental training piece around Yeah. the emotion. What's at the root of our
the emotion. What's at the root of our addiction to pornography right now? Like
addiction to pornography right now? Like what's at the root of that from a
what's at the root of that from a >> from a core point of view?
>> from a core point of view? >> At the root is meaninglessness. So this
>> At the root is meaninglessness. So this is what a lot of people don't realize.
is what a lot of people don't realize. They think that pornography addiction is
They think that pornography addiction is about sexuality. They think it's about
about sexuality. They think it's about being horny. They think it's about lust.
being horny. They think it's about lust. It's not lust. So,
It's not lust. So, you know, one of the top variables,
you know, one of the top variables, there's two, one of the top variables
there's two, one of the top variables for
for addiction to pornography is lack of
addiction to pornography is lack of purpose, lack of meaning. So, when I was
purpose, lack of meaning. So, when I was designing our coaching program, I was
designing our coaching program, I was seeing that there's a lot of new
seeing that there's a lot of new problems, but they have these roots that
problems, but they have these roots that are a little bit different. So, in
are a little bit different. So, in psychiatry, they don't teach us how to
psychiatry, they don't teach us how to find purpose, but our initial pilot
find purpose, but our initial pilot study of 1,453
study of 1,453 people found a 68% increase in purpose
people found a 68% increase in purpose and direction in life at 20 weeks. So,
and direction in life at 20 weeks. So, that's also where you got to stick with
that's also where you got to stick with it for a while. It doesn't happen
it for a while. It doesn't happen overnight. So, I think what's going on
overnight. So, I think what's going on is to be like blunt about it, when you
is to be like blunt about it, when you are addicted to porn, you got to have a
are addicted to porn, you got to have a reason to not watch. So what happens
reason to not watch. So what happens with pornography addiction? A lot of
with pornography addiction? A lot of people don't realize what this looks
people don't realize what this looks like. They think it's like automatically
like. They think it's like automatically associated with lust and masturbation.
associated with lust and masturbation. Often times it's on the second screen.
Often times it's on the second screen. So we're seeing a big explosion of it
So we're seeing a big explosion of it with like work from home. People will
with like work from home. People will really use it to regulate their
really use it to regulate their emotions. That's really the number one
emotions. That's really the number one reason. So if we think about sex and
reason. So if we think about sex and what it does to our brain, if I'm
what it does to our brain, if I'm feeling anxious, if I'm a man,
feeling anxious, if I'm a man, biological male, and if my testosterone
biological male, and if my testosterone is is intact and stuff like that, you
is is intact and stuff like that, you know, we will often times if we get
know, we will often times if we get sexually activated, all of our negative
sexually activated, all of our negative emotions go away. And it's such a
emotions go away. And it's such a powerful activator. It's like the most
powerful activator. It's like the most powerful biological way to shut off your
powerful biological way to shut off your negative emotional circuitry.
negative emotional circuitry. Happens immediately like once you get
Happens immediately like once you get horny, right? And a lot of guys and
horny, right? And a lot of guys and sorry if this is a bit vulgar but you
sorry if this is a bit vulgar but you know will experience this postnut
know will experience this postnut clarity. And literally what happens in
clarity. And literally what happens in in your brain is when these sexual
in your brain is when these sexual circuits activate they suppress
circuits activate they suppress everything else including our risk
everything else including our risk assessment circuitry which is why we
assessment circuitry which is why we make really bad decisions. They shut off
make really bad decisions. They shut off everything else. They shut off your
everything else. They shut off your reasoning. They shut off your logic.
reasoning. They shut off your logic. They shut off your risk assessment. They
They shut off your risk assessment. They shut off your anxiety. They shut off
shut off your anxiety. They shut off your fear. So what we're seeing is that
your fear. So what we're seeing is that as people become more directionless and
as people become more directionless and as their capacity to handle negative
as their capacity to handle negative emotions decreases, they get addicted to
emotions decreases, they get addicted to pornography
pornography >> because it's the most accessible
>> because it's the most accessible biological tool that you can use and it
biological tool that you can use and it doesn't involve, you know, opiates and
doesn't involve, you know, opiates and spending money and things like that
spending money and things like that usually.
usually. >> Yeah. And what are the negative effects
>> Yeah. And what are the negative effects of pornography anyway that we're seeing?
of pornography anyway that we're seeing? Because if someone's watching this and
Because if someone's watching this and going, "Well, it's not that bad anyway.
going, "Well, it's not that bad anyway. It switches off. helps me
It switches off. helps me emotionally regulate.
emotionally regulate. >> Yes. So I think the scariest one for me
>> Yes. So I think the scariest one for me is um the rise of erectile dysfunction
is um the rise of erectile dysfunction under the age of 30.
under the age of 30. >> So erectile
>> So erectile >> how do the two correlate?
>> how do the two correlate? >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So so erectile dysfunction under the age
>> So so erectile dysfunction under the age of 30 used to be 5%. Right. So as men
of 30 used to be 5%. Right. So as men where in society we tend to think like
where in society we tend to think like as you get older right like once you
as you get older right like once you have kids once you have grandkids like
have kids once you have grandkids like then it doesn't work the way it used to
then it doesn't work the way it used to right. But actually what we're starting
right. But actually what we're starting to see is the rate uh some studies
to see is the rate uh some studies suggest a rate of 20% of people under
suggest a rate of 20% of people under the age of 30 boys men um will have
the age of 30 boys men um will have erectile dysfunction. And the reason
erectile dysfunction. And the reason that happens it's kind of also a little
that happens it's kind of also a little bit of vulgar but it's medical. So the
bit of vulgar but it's medical. So the hand grip strength
hand grip strength uh the PSI the pounds per square inch of
uh the PSI the pounds per square inch of your hand can be like 120 130. The
your hand can be like 120 130. The vagina has a PSI of like 15 to 30. So
vagina has a PSI of like 15 to 30. So literally what the way you define
literally what the way you define erectile dysfunction is it is the
erectile dysfunction is it is the inability to maintain erection until the
inability to maintain erection until the completion of the sexual act. So what
completion of the sexual act. So what we're seeing is that when boys start
we're seeing is that when boys start using pornography and masturbating at a
using pornography and masturbating at a very young age without lubrication and
very young age without lubrication and stuff like that, their body gets trained
stuff like that, their body gets trained for a certain kind of stimulus in order
for a certain kind of stimulus in order to complete the sexual act. And when
to complete the sexual act. And when they engage in a sexual relationship,
they engage in a sexual relationship, their
their penis doesn't know how to handle like it
penis doesn't know how to handle like it is just just not enough. And then
is just just not enough. And then eventually they'll go at it, they'll go
eventually they'll go at it, they'll go at it, they'll go at it, they'll lose
at it, they'll go at it, they'll lose the erection, which is physiologic. And
the erection, which is physiologic. And then what happens is we have all kinds
then what happens is we have all kinds of like shame associated with it, you
of like shame associated with it, you know, and then like once the shame kicks
know, and then like once the shame kicks in, that shame can be so powerful that
in, that shame can be so powerful that the sexual drive cannot shut that down.
the sexual drive cannot shut that down. And then you have anxiety around sex and
And then you have anxiety around sex and things like that. and it can really mess
things like that. and it can really mess up people's relationships.
up people's relationships. >> What's the mental training for someone
>> What's the mental training for someone who's saying, "Okay, well, I I want to
who's saying, "Okay, well, I I want to disconnect from porn. I want to detach,
disconnect from porn. I want to detach, but I'm not going to find purpose
but I'm not going to find purpose tomorrow. So, what's the stop gap?"
tomorrow. So, what's the stop gap?" There is no stop gap, and you have to
There is no stop gap, and you have to stop thinking about things happening
stop thinking about things happening tomorrow. Honestly, that's where you
tomorrow. Honestly, that's where you start. So, you know, our approach to
start. So, you know, our approach to pornography has three major pillars, and
pornography has three major pillars, and I think you have to tackle all three. So
I think you have to tackle all three. So the first is like a very standard
the first is like a very standard addictionoriented
addictionoriented structure where like if you're trying to
structure where like if you're trying to quit alcohol, you got to stop going to
quit alcohol, you got to stop going to bars. So from a structural standpoint,
bars. So from a structural standpoint, what I recommend everyone is that they
what I recommend everyone is that they um you know log out of all their
um you know log out of all their devices, use only one device for
devices, use only one device for pornography and restrict your
pornography and restrict your pornography use to like one or two hours
pornography use to like one or two hours of the day. So it has to like stop
of the day. So it has to like stop infecting every part of your life.
infecting every part of your life. That's the first part. We're going to
That's the first part. We're going to kind of restrict it. Um, the second
kind of restrict it. Um, the second thing is emotional regulation. So, as
thing is emotional regulation. So, as long as your brain requires pornography
long as your brain requires pornography to manage your emotional your emotions,
to manage your emotional your emotions, it's you're never going to be able to
it's you're never going to be able to quit. So, you need to develop alternate
quit. So, you need to develop alternate skills to manage your emotions. These
skills to manage your emotions. These can be things like meditation practices,
can be things like meditation practices, even going for a walk, stuff like that.
even going for a walk, stuff like that. Um, one thing that I also really
Um, one thing that I also really recommend to people is that they give
recommend to people is that they give themselves time to think before they
themselves time to think before they before they go to sleep. So, spend an
before they go to sleep. So, spend an hour of idle time. I love pacing. We
hour of idle time. I love pacing. We need a lot of time to process emotions.
need a lot of time to process emotions. You can also do things like dream
You can also do things like dream journals. So dreams are one of the main
journals. So dreams are one of the main ways that our brain processes emotions.
ways that our brain processes emotions. So that emotional regulation is number
So that emotional regulation is number two. And the third thing is finding
two. And the third thing is finding meaning or purpose. So watch more
meaning or purpose. So watch more episodes of on purpose with J Shetty. So
episodes of on purpose with J Shetty. So as you develop that purpose, you're
as you develop that purpose, you're right, it's not going to happen
right, it's not going to happen overnight. We see that it takes about 20
overnight. We see that it takes about 20 weeks. That's when people
weeks. That's when people >> 20 weeks is amazing.
>> 20 weeks is amazing. >> Yeah. So it's focused, right? So what we
>> Yeah. So it's focused, right? So what we did is we took some of these like
did is we took some of these like clinical things that used to be used to
clinical things that used to be used to treat depression and we shift those
treat depression and we shift those those same conversational techniques,
those same conversational techniques, exploratory techniques to finding
exploratory techniques to finding something like purpose and that works
something like purpose and that works incredibly well and then we can go into
incredibly well and then we can go into the details of of you know what that
the details of of you know what that involves.
involves. >> I was going to ask you that that was my
>> I was going to ask you that that was my next question. How do how do you define
next question. How do how do you define purpose? What are you looking at in the
purpose? What are you looking at in the 20 weeks? What are you trying to get
20 weeks? What are you trying to get people?
people? >> Yeah. So so the funny thing about
>> Yeah. So so the funny thing about purpose is like it's not what everyone
purpose is like it's not what everyone thinks it is. So the way you find
thinks it is. So the way you find purpose is like really kind of
purpose is like really kind of counterintuitive. So it actually
counterintuitive. So it actually involves
involves I don't know what purpose is. Maybe we
I don't know what purpose is. Maybe we can ask you but what we know is what are
can ask you but what we know is what are the scientific mechanisms. So if I take
the scientific mechanisms. So if I take someone who has no purpose in life and I
someone who has no purpose in life and I take someone who has purpose in life,
take someone who has purpose in life, what do they do differently? That's what
what do they do differently? That's what we try to change.
we try to change. >> Great question. Yeah.
>> Great question. Yeah. >> So the first thing is self-direction.
>> So the first thing is self-direction. So people as long as you as long as life
So people as long as you as long as life is happening to you and you are not
is happening to you and you are not making choices if you are forced to make
making choices if you are forced to make choices you will feel out of direction.
choices you will feel out of direction. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> So this is kind of counterintuitive but
>> So this is kind of counterintuitive but the first thing I tell people to do is
the first thing I tell people to do is start making choices.
start making choices. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> And then the first question that they
>> And then the first question that they ask me is how do I know what's right or
ask me is how do I know what's right or wrong? That's not actually doesn't
wrong? That's not actually doesn't matter. The what matters in your brain
matter. The what matters in your brain is that you choose. And the whole point
is that you choose. And the whole point this is really insidious. If you think
this is really insidious. If you think about right or wrong, if you figure out
about right or wrong, if you figure out right or wrong, you're not make you're
right or wrong, you're not make you're not making the choice.
not making the choice. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> The world tells you this is right and
>> The world tells you this is right and this is wrong. That's the world making
this is wrong. That's the world making the choice for you. This is right and
the choice for you. This is right and this is wrong. So forget about right or
this is wrong. So forget about right or wrong and just make a choice. I don't
wrong and just make a choice. I don't care what it is. Choose matcha instead
care what it is. Choose matcha instead of coffee. Put your left shoe on first
of coffee. Put your left shoe on first instead of your right shoe. Start
instead of your right shoe. Start brushing with your left te your left
brushing with your left te your left hand. So you need to start making
hand. So you need to start making choices. There's a beautiful element
choices. There's a beautiful element about anxiety that we can talk about
about anxiety that we can talk about there. It'll also like drastically help
there. It'll also like drastically help your anxiety.
your anxiety. Second thing that you need to do is
Second thing that you need to do is stretch your capacity.
stretch your capacity. So we feel like we have purpose in life
So we feel like we have purpose in life because it's not purpose but this is
because it's not purpose but this is like literally what the scientific
like literally what the scientific makeup of purpose is stretching your
makeup of purpose is stretching your capacity. So we always feel overwhelmed.
capacity. So we always feel overwhelmed. I don't want to do it. I want to do the
I don't want to do it. I want to do the bare minimum. We're a society of people
bare minimum. We're a society of people who do the bare minimum. We're a society
who do the bare minimum. We're a society of people who companies use chatgpt and
of people who companies use chatgpt and AI to review applications. Now everyone
AI to review applications. Now everyone is using AI to apply for jobs. It's just
is using AI to apply for jobs. It's just AI talking to AI. We're trying to do as
AI talking to AI. We're trying to do as little as possible. And we're seeing an
little as possible. And we're seeing an epidemic of purposelessness. We're
epidemic of purposelessness. We're seeing an epidemic of pornography use.
seeing an epidemic of pornography use. But that's because in your brain, these
But that's because in your brain, these two things are connected. The moment you
two things are connected. The moment you stretch your capacities, once again, it
stretch your capacities, once again, it doesn't matter what you're doing. If you
doesn't matter what you're doing. If you swim 10 10 laps, swim 11. If you are
swim 10 10 laps, swim 11. If you are wake up at 7 uh 7 7:00 every day, wake
wake up at 7 uh 7 7:00 every day, wake up at 6:59.
up at 6:59. This is the beautiful thing. The content
This is the beautiful thing. The content of what you do is completely irrelev not
of what you do is completely irrelev not completely. That's not wrong. That's
completely. That's not wrong. That's that's wrong. But the key thing is that
that's wrong. But the key thing is that you stretch your capacities. I didn't
you stretch your capacities. I didn't think I was capable of this. You don't
think I was capable of this. You don't even have to succeed. You just have to
even have to succeed. You just have to stretch it. I didn't think I could do
stretch it. I didn't think I could do this. Turns out I was wrong. At least I
this. Turns out I was wrong. At least I tried. When you start thinking in this
tried. When you start thinking in this way,
way, >> right? When I ask someone, you know, if
>> right? When I ask someone, you know, if I like a quick thought experiment,
I like a quick thought experiment, we're always afraid of giving it all our
we're always afraid of giving it all our all and failing. But when you give it
all and failing. But when you give it your all, how do you usually feel? You
your all, how do you usually feel? You can usually sleep at night. As long as
can usually sleep at night. As long as some of the stuff like ego and stuff
some of the stuff like ego and stuff doesn't get in the way, right? At least
doesn't get in the way, right? At least I tried my best. That can give you a a
I tried my best. That can give you a a good sense. That's a hard lesson I
good sense. That's a hard lesson I learned in med school because or in
learned in med school because or in residency is like, you know, what helps
residency is like, you know, what helps me sleep at night is not whether the
me sleep at night is not whether the patient lives or dies.
patient lives or dies. Did I give it my all? Did I do
Did I give it my all? Did I do everything within my power to try to
everything within my power to try to help this person? And if I did, the rest
help this person? And if I did, the rest is out of my hands.
is out of my hands. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Right. So, you have to stretch your
>> Right. So, you have to stretch your capacities.
capacities. >> The third thing, and this is the hardest
>> The third thing, and this is the hardest one,
one, >> relatedness.
>> relatedness. So, people have to be able to see you.
So, people have to be able to see you. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> And respond to the real you. It doesn't
>> And respond to the real you. It doesn't necessarily have to be positive. Certain
necessarily have to be positive. Certain amount of acceptedness, accepting that
amount of acceptedness, accepting that person is good. But other people has to
person is good. But other people has to be able to see who you are. And that's
be able to see who you are. And that's really hard because people don't have
really hard because people don't have the attention for that. Everyone's on
the attention for that. Everyone's on their cell phones. So I think if you do,
their cell phones. So I think if you do, if you cultivate these three things,
if you cultivate these three things, your sense of purpose will increase in
your sense of purpose will increase in life.
life. >> That's fresh. I like that. That's I like
>> That's fresh. I like that. That's I like that you've used what you'd see as the
that you've used what you'd see as the difference between a purposeful person
difference between a purposeful person and someone who doesn't have purpose to
and someone who doesn't have purpose to find what to what path to travel.
find what to what path to travel. >> Yeah. So I think the really confusing
>> Yeah. So I think the really confusing thing is when people think about
thing is when people think about purpose, like if I were to ask you Jay,
purpose, like if I were to ask you Jay, what is your purpose? How would you
what is your purpose? How would you answer that? If I if you ask me what is
answer that? If I if you ask me what is my purpose? Yeah. So my purpose would be
my purpose? Yeah. So my purpose would be to make ancient wisdom accessible,
to make ancient wisdom accessible, relevant and practical for the modern
relevant and practical for the modern person.
person. >> Perfect. Right. So that's what most
>> Perfect. Right. So that's what most people think it is. They think it's like
people think it is. They think it's like this. Yeah. For sure.
this. Yeah. For sure. >> Right. But this is what I want people to
>> Right. But this is what I want people to understand. If you really think about
understand. If you really think about it, how do you know that you have
it, how do you know that you have purpose or you don't have purpose?
purpose or you don't have purpose? Totally. Yeah. It's not that.
Totally. Yeah. It's not that. >> It's an internal feeling. Like I wake up
>> It's an internal feeling. Like I wake up every day like my guess is you wake up
every day like my guess is you wake up and you're like, I have purpose.
and you're like, I have purpose. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> It's an internal feeling. Mhm.
>> It's an internal feeling. Mhm. >> So, how do we cultivate that internal
>> So, how do we cultivate that internal feeling with these three things?
feeling with these three things? >> Yeah, I love that. I think it's
>> Yeah, I love that. I think it's beautiful. I really really like those
beautiful. I really really like those three things and they they come closely
three things and they they come closely to some of the things I've thought about
to some of the things I've thought about before as well. And I think there's a
before as well. And I think there's a need and your people get it because
need and your people get it because they're part of your community, but I
they're part of your community, but I think belonging is such a first step in
think belonging is such a first step in purpose. Like even, you know, recently I
purpose. Like even, you know, recently I took up pickle ball and I feel like I'm
took up pickle ball and I feel like I'm part of the LA pickle ball scene and
part of the LA pickle ball scene and I'll just walk up to a court
I'll just walk up to a court >> and I can just go play with anyone. I
>> and I can just go play with anyone. I don't have to know each other's names. I
don't have to know each other's names. I don't know what job they have. They
don't know what job they have. They don't know what I do. And you're playing
don't know what I do. And you're playing pickle ball together. And there's a
pickle ball together. And there's a sense of belonging which makes me feel
sense of belonging which makes me feel automatically linked to something bigger
automatically linked to something bigger than me. So belonging isn't a sense of I
than me. So belonging isn't a sense of I have friends. Belonging is I feel
have friends. Belonging is I feel connected to something that is beyond me
connected to something that is beyond me and beyond this person. And I think
and beyond this person. And I think that's such a part of purpose. The
that's such a part of purpose. The second one which is aligns with what
second one which is aligns with what you're saying to me is learning. But
you're saying to me is learning. But really, it's what you're saying. It's
really, it's what you're saying. It's that challenge to stretch my capability
that challenge to stretch my capability to to try something new every day. That
to to try something new every day. That idea of curiosity uh is so key to it as
idea of curiosity uh is so key to it as well as a habit. The third, this one's
well as a habit. The third, this one's really important for me. It's people who
really important for me. It's people who feel independently useful. So now you're
feel independently useful. So now you're part of this bigger thing, but you know
part of this bigger thing, but you know what you do. So I'm the guy who brings
what you do. So I'm the guy who brings the pickle balls. I'm the guy who like
the pickle balls. I'm the guy who like puts the net out, right? Like I have a
puts the net out, right? Like I have a per I have a use that is unique to me.
per I have a use that is unique to me. >> Yeah. So, you know what's really
>> Yeah. So, you know what's really fascinating
fascinating >> is
>> is I love and I'm amazed that my guess is
I love and I'm amazed that my guess is that you did not like read a bunch of
that you did not like read a bunch of scientific literature to come up with
scientific literature to come up with these things.
these things. >> I've I've read enough but I didn't use
>> I've I've read enough but I didn't use it to but I have I'm I'm defin I'm
it to but I have I'm I'm defin I'm always reading I I know you're you're
always reading I I know you're you're quite well read and stuff but I enjoy
quite well read and stuff but I enjoy reading. Yeah.
reading. Yeah. >> You know, so so I'm not a scientist but
>> You know, so so I'm not a scientist but but it's not like you're like let me
but it's not like you're like let me read a thousand papers. That's how I
read a thousand papers. That's how I came up with my answer,
came up with my answer, >> right? And so what I think is really
>> right? And so what I think is really beautiful is your things can be mapped
beautiful is your things can be mapped onto my things and what the data shows.
onto my things and what the data shows. Your independent exploration. Sure,
Your independent exploration. Sure, you're reading a lot. You are you keep
you're reading a lot. You are you keep up with science and stuff like that. But
up with science and stuff like that. But you're looking at your experience and
you're looking at your experience and you have belongingness which is
you have belongingness which is correlated with relatedness.
correlated with relatedness. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Right. You have this curiosity which
>> Right. You have this curiosity which causes you to stretch.
causes you to stretch. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> You have this independent usefulness
>> You have this independent usefulness which is autonomy which is making
which is autonomy which is making choices. I'm going to go ahead. no one
choices. I'm going to go ahead. no one needs to ask me and you find a utility
needs to ask me and you find a utility like you know and so I I think it's
like you know and so I I think it's really beautiful like I like I love
really beautiful like I like I love hearing that because that shows me that
hearing that because that shows me that if people pay attention
if people pay attention >> right if they do what you did which not
>> right if they do what you did which not to devalue what you did but I think is
to devalue what you did but I think is easier than what I did you don't have to
easier than what I did you don't have to read a thousand papers on purpose to
read a thousand papers on purpose to understand what what it is right you can
understand what what it is right you can pay attention to yourself you can do
pay attention to yourself you can do some amount of reading you can listen to
some amount of reading you can listen to a few podcasts and that is enough for
a few podcasts and that is enough for you to find the right answers.
you to find the right answers. >> And it's crazy cuz you hit all three.
>> And it's crazy cuz you hit all three. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> You didn't come up with four, you didn't
>> You didn't come up with four, you didn't come up with two. You came up with
come up with two. You came up with three. And it's all the same buckets.
three. And it's all the same buckets. >> Really amazing.
>> Really amazing. >> I have two more.
>> I have two more. >> Oh, really? Okay.
>> Oh, really? Okay. >> So So that's actually really cool, too.
>> So So that's actually really cool, too. >> Cuz if you've got two more, I wonder if
>> Cuz if you've got two more, I wonder if we're missing something.
we're missing something. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not And I don't I'm
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not And I don't I'm not saying you are. This is just my own
not saying you are. This is just my own reflection.
reflection. >> No, no, no. But I mean, I would bet
>> No, no, no. But I mean, I would bet money we are. So tell me what
money we are. So tell me what >> the fourth one is service.
>> the fourth one is service. >> Okay. So having a sense of give back,
>> Okay. So having a sense of give back, having a sense of
having a sense of >> being involved in other people's
>> being involved in other people's well-being, which goes back to you've
well-being, which goes back to you've it's really beautiful because I've heard
it's really beautiful because I've heard that idea before, but not as strongly
that idea before, but not as strongly and concretely. This idea of you
and concretely. This idea of you explaining what it means to not think
explaining what it means to not think about yourself today has just like
about yourself today has just like really cut through for me which is so
really cut through for me which is so powerful because it's been explained in
powerful because it's been explained in a clinical way I think and that's what
a clinical way I think and that's what that service element is. It's like all
that service element is. It's like all those first things were still about in
those first things were still about in one sense belonging was beyond you. It's
one sense belonging was beyond you. It's think about something bigger than you.
think about something bigger than you. But this one's a key part. It's like how
But this one's a key part. It's like how are you doing things for things which
are you doing things for things which are not about you. I'm not thinking
are not about you. I'm not thinking about how I'm useful. I'm not thinking
about how I'm useful. I'm not thinking about this. I'm trying to think about
about this. I'm trying to think about someone else. So service and then the
someone else. So service and then the fifth one comes back to our point
fifth one comes back to our point earlier on detachment which is
earlier on detachment which is surrender. I use the word surrender
surrender. I use the word surrender because it falls into my five acronym
because it falls into my five acronym that I have. But the the last is
that I have. But the the last is surrender because there's such a need
surrender because there's such a need for ultimately that detachment from I
for ultimately that detachment from I what you just so beautifully said that
what you just so beautifully said that at the end of the day I can't decide
at the end of the day I can't decide whether I'm going to save someone's life
whether I'm going to save someone's life or not. The only thing I can be
or not. The only thing I can be satisfied is I gave it my all. And that
satisfied is I gave it my all. And that to me is what surrender really is is the
to me is what surrender really is is the ability to say I did everything and now
ability to say I did everything and now I'm holding my hands up and I'm living
I'm holding my hands up and I'm living with the the the results because I can't
with the the the results because I can't control what's going on. So
control what's going on. So >> go to mafarta also from
>> go to mafarta also from >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. >> And I I think you're there's plenty of
>> And I I think you're there's plenty of science for your last two. I think the
science for your last two. I think the interesting thing is the scientific
interesting thing is the scientific literature doesn't
literature doesn't >> thus far has not tied that to the
>> thus far has not tied that to the concept of purpose.
concept of purpose. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> But I I think especially like you know
>> But I I think especially like you know service is really interesting.
service is really interesting. There's a a study that found multiple
There's a a study that found multiple studies that found that people who
studies that found that people who suffer from major depressive disorder
suffer from major depressive disorder and are depressed one of the best things
and are depressed one of the best things they can do to improve their depression
they can do to improve their depression is help other people.
is help other people. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Right. So there's something really
>> Right. So there's something really special about being a part of a
special about being a part of a community, giving back in some way has
community, giving back in some way has profound positive uh effects on our
profound positive uh effects on our brain
brain >> and it's so great for self-esteem. It it
>> and it's so great for self-esteem. It it affects all the I think we used to argue
affects all the I think we used to argue this stupid debate over can something
this stupid debate over can something ever truly be selfless service because
ever truly be selfless service because you're doing it for yourself. And I'm
you're doing it for yourself. And I'm actually not interested in that
actually not interested in that question. It's it's more interesting to
question. It's it's more interesting to me the fact that if you were useful,
me the fact that if you were useful, you'd feel more useful where you'd be
you'd feel more useful where you'd be more useful and you do more for others.
more useful and you do more for others. And that is a positive cycle for people
And that is a positive cycle for people who have depression or are struggling
who have depression or are struggling with feelings of not being worthy enough
with feelings of not being worthy enough or not mattering. That idea when you
or not mattering. That idea when you look at it through suicide, it's like I
look at it through suicide, it's like I didn't matter anymore. I didn't feel
didn't matter anymore. I didn't feel like I was needed anymore.
like I was needed anymore. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely. >> You know, it's like you don't want
>> You know, it's like you don't want people to go through those feelings and
people to go through those feelings and emotions.
emotions. >> There's a I I love what you said and let
>> There's a I I love what you said and let me know if we're like
me know if we're like >> No, I love it. Pickle ball is going back
>> No, I love it. Pickle ball is going back and forth too much, but you know, I I I
and forth too much, but you know, I I I love this concept of service because I
love this concept of service because I think many of the questions you asked
think many of the questions you asked me, I think this is the answer.
me, I think this is the answer. So when you engage in service that
So when you engage in service that dissolves your ego.
dissolves your ego. >> So if people are wondering how can I
>> So if people are wondering how can I stop caring about other people give
stop caring about other people give yourself in service right? Don't do what
yourself in service right? Don't do what they want. That's not really service.
they want. That's not really service. Service is is not giving someone what
Service is is not giving someone what they want. It is doing what you feel
they want. It is doing what you feel like for the benefit of others. It comes
like for the benefit of others. It comes from you.
from you. >> And you're saying like this isn't for
>> And you're saying like this isn't for me. This is for other people. And if you
me. This is for other people. And if you kind of think about how do I stop caring
kind of think about how do I stop caring about what other people think? That is a
about what other people think? That is a selfish selflessness,
selfish selflessness, >> right? I'm trying to make other people
>> right? I'm trying to make other people happy so that they'll leave me alone.
happy so that they'll leave me alone. They'll treat me with respect. They'll
They'll treat me with respect. They'll tell me I'm great. That's actually
tell me I'm great. That's actually selfish.
selfish. >> But service is giving without
>> But service is giving without expectation. Yeah.
expectation. Yeah. >> Giving. And that's the whole point.
>> Giving. And that's the whole point. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> Right. And so I I think service is a
>> Right. And so I I think service is a beautiful way to decrease the agar
beautiful way to decrease the agar because it's not about me anymore. And
because it's not about me anymore. And there's a really interesting
there's a really interesting neuroscience to this which is literally
neuroscience to this which is literally when you are engaged in service the
when you are engaged in service the minutes that your brain are not thinking
minutes that your brain are not thinking about you increases
about you increases and for so much of our life social media
and for so much of our life social media and all of this kind of stuff we are
and all of this kind of stuff we are constantly thinking about ourselves.
constantly thinking about ourselves. >> Yeah. So literally to spend time to give
>> Yeah. So literally to spend time to give your break your brain a break from
your break your brain a break from thinking about you, worrying about you,
thinking about you, worrying about you, just focusing on somebody else.
just focusing on somebody else. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Is profoundly helpful for your default
>> Is profoundly helpful for your default mode network and your ego.
mode network and your ego. >> Yeah. Dr. K, I could talk to you for
>> Yeah. Dr. K, I could talk to you for hours and I'm going to need to book you
hours and I'm going to need to book you in again because cuz this is like this
in again because cuz this is like this is so much fun and we didn't even
is so much fun and we didn't even there's so many things we could talk
there's so many things we could talk about. Uh but we end every on purpose
about. Uh but we end every on purpose interview with a final five. These
interview with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one
questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
word to one sentence maximum. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Uh so Dr. K, these are your final five.
>> Uh so Dr. K, these are your final five. >> Okay, let's do it.
>> Okay, let's do it. >> Question number one is, what is the best
>> Question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received
>> or given? >> Best advice I've ever heard or received
>> Best advice I've ever heard or received or given.
or given. >> Um
>> Um can we go to the second one while I
can we go to the second one while I think about that?
think about that? >> The second one's harder usually. What is
>> The second one's harder usually. What is the worst advice you ever heard,
the worst advice you ever heard, received, or given? The thing that is
received, or given? The thing that is top of mind for me right now is be
top of mind for me right now is be yourself.
yourself. >> Yeah, that's I agree. It's fully bad
>> Yeah, that's I agree. It's fully bad advice. I'm so glad you said that
advice. I'm so glad you said that because I was on tour earlier this year
because I was on tour earlier this year and I literally said that on stage. I
and I literally said that on stage. I was like, if anyone ever tells you to be
was like, if anyone ever tells you to be yourself, it is the worst advice ever.
yourself, it is the worst advice ever. That makes me happy. Uh, question number
That makes me happy. Uh, question number three. What's something that you used to
three. What's something that you used to believe to be true that you don't
believe to be true that you don't anymore?
>> It's a good answer. Yeah, that's a great answer.
answer. >> I'm really not.
>> I'm really not. >> That's a I I can relate to. I put my
>> That's a I I can relate to. I put my hand up for that. That's a great answer.
hand up for that. That's a great answer. Uh, question number four. What's
Uh, question number four. What's something that other people don't agree
something that other people don't agree with you on, but you'd fight for till
with you on, but you'd fight for till the end? I don't know that I would fight
the end? I don't know that I would fight for this, but I think the biggest thing
for this, but I think the biggest thing is like some of my like I think that
is like some of my like I think that this consciousness stuff is real. I
this consciousness stuff is real. I think there's a whole dimension of like
think there's a whole dimension of like human existence that science cannot I
human existence that science cannot I get one answer one word but um but I I I
get one answer one word but um but I I I think that there is a whole I think that
think that there is a whole I think that I believe there's a layer of reality
I believe there's a layer of reality >> that can only be experienced
>> that can only be experienced subjectively.
subjectively. >> Great answer. Uh fifth and final
>> Great answer. Uh fifth and final question. If you could create we ask
question. If you could create we ask this to every guest who's ever been on
this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law
the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to
that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
follow, what would it be? >> I would never do that.
>> I would never do that. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> I I really wouldn't.
>> I I really wouldn't. >> I'll edit it for you. If you could
>> I'll edit it for you. If you could create one habit that you wish everyone
create one habit that you wish everyone in the world would follow, what would it
in the world would follow, what would it be?
>> I understand you're trying to help me out here,
out here, >> but you're not going to answer.
>> but you're not going to answer. >> I am I am so averse to doing one thing
>> I am I am so averse to doing one thing for everyone.
for everyone. >> Everyone interesting,
>> Everyone interesting, >> right? Like I just don't think like
>> right? Like I just don't think like >> don't believe in it. Yeah. Yeah.
>> don't believe in it. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
Interesting. >> But I think I really think like I mean
>> But I think I really think like I mean I've learned this the hard way. The
I've learned this the hard way. The moment I assume that anyone who walks in
moment I assume that anyone who walks in my office
my office >> is even a little bit overlapping with
>> is even a little bit overlapping with someone else is the moment that
someone else is the moment that >> It's a great answer. Yeah. I love that.
>> It's a great answer. Yeah. I love that. Do you want to give the best advice
Do you want to give the best advice again? Oh.
again? Oh. >> Yeah. So best advice I would give is um
>> Yeah. So best advice I would give is um focus more on what is happening and less
focus more on what is happening and less on what you're doing. Focus more on what
on what you're doing. Focus more on what is happening and less on what you're
is happening and less on what you're doing.
doing. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah, >> I like that. Observe. Observe. Focus on
>> I like that. Observe. Observe. Focus on the observation.
the observation. >> Focus on the experience.
>> Focus on the experience. >> Yeah. So, just to explain a little bit,
>> Yeah. So, just to explain a little bit, right? I know we touched on it.
right? I know we touched on it. >> So, so I I think a lot of people don't
>> So, so I I think a lot of people don't realize what the consequences of their
realize what the consequences of their actions are.
actions are. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> So, just to give you a really simple
>> So, just to give you a really simple example, we have a bunch of, you know,
example, we have a bunch of, you know, kids that are on iPads right now. And so
kids that are on iPads right now. And so a lot of times what parents don't
a lot of times what parents don't realize is like
realize is like um you know when your kid throws a
um you know when your kid throws a temper tantrum and you give them the
temper tantrum and you give them the iPad to calm them down, you're just
iPad to calm them down, you're just training them to throw a temper tantrum.
training them to throw a temper tantrum. For kids that are slightly older, a lot
For kids that are slightly older, a lot of parents will be like, "Hey, come down
of parents will be like, "Hey, come down for dinner. Come down for dinner. Come
for dinner. Come down for dinner. Come down for dinner." Kid doesn't show up
down for dinner." Kid doesn't show up for dinner. They're 15 minutes late. You
for dinner. They're 15 minutes late. You go up there, you un unplug the
go up there, you un unplug the PlayStation, and you're like, "No
PlayStation, and you're like, "No PlayStation for a month."
PlayStation for a month." So what you're actually training your
So what you're actually training your child to do is ignore your words
child to do is ignore your words and until you unplug the PlayStation.
and until you unplug the PlayStation. Does that kind of make sense?
Does that kind of make sense? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> So like the first six times you say
>> So like the first six times you say something, you're not reinforcing that
something, you're not reinforcing that at all. Right. So you're actually
at all. Right. So you're actually training them to ignore what you say,
training them to ignore what you say, which is why you have to con and then
which is why you have to con and then you have to take a drastic action to get
you have to take a drastic action to get them to listen. And parents feel insane
them to listen. And parents feel insane because now I'm having to go up and yell
because now I'm having to go up and yell at you all the time in order to get you
at you all the time in order to get you to do anything. That's because when you
to do anything. That's because when you speak gently, there is no consequence.
speak gently, there is no consequence. >> Mhm.
>> Mhm. >> So tie the consequence to the gentle,
>> So tie the consequence to the gentle, not the consequence to the yelling.
not the consequence to the yelling. Because if you tie the consequence to
Because if you tie the consequence to the yelling, you'll have to yell again.
the yelling, you'll have to yell again. That's how the way they'll they'll get
That's how the way they'll they'll get trained.
trained. >> So pay attention to what is happening.
>> So pay attention to what is happening. >> Not what you're doing.
>> Not what you're doing. >> That's a great explanation. I love that.
>> That's a great explanation. I love that. Uh the book is called How to Raise a
Uh the book is called How to Raise a Healthy Gamer: End Power Struggles,
Healthy Gamer: End Power Struggles, Break Bad Screen Habits, and Transform
Break Bad Screen Habits, and Transform Your Relationship with Your Kids. Uh Dr.
Your Relationship with Your Kids. Uh Dr. K. subscribe on YouTube as well if you
K. subscribe on YouTube as well if you don't subscribe uh to Dr. K's channel
don't subscribe uh to Dr. K's channel already. Dr. K, you're going to have to
already. Dr. K, you're going to have to come back
come back >> and do a bunch more episodes cuz we
>> and do a bunch more episodes cuz we didn't even talk about kids today.
didn't even talk about kids today. >> Yeah, we didn't talk about kids and I
>> Yeah, we didn't talk about kids and I still want to hear so much. I mean, like
still want to hear so much. I mean, like it's it's amazing. Um you know, your
it's it's amazing. Um you know, your background with the Gita and and stuff
background with the Gita and and stuff like that. So, I'm super curious because
like that. So, I'm super curious because you seem super grounded
you seem super grounded >> in that and and I haven't even read the
>> in that and and I haven't even read the whole thing. So, I I want to learn about
whole thing. So, I I want to learn about that.
that. >> More than happy to. Now we're now we
>> More than happy to. Now we're now we know each other. So, we should connect
know each other. So, we should connect offline as well. Absolutely, dude.
offline as well. Absolutely, dude. >> Yeah, such a pleasure, man. You're
>> Yeah, such a pleasure, man. You're amazing.
amazing. >> If you love this episode, you'll love my
>> If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabbor Mate on
interview with Dr. Gabbor Mate on understanding your trauma and how to
understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on
heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
from the past. >> Everything in nature grows only where
>> Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So, a tree doesn't grow
it's vulnerable. So, a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it? It
where it's hard and thick, does it? It goes with soft and green and vulnerable.
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