The core theme is the transformative power of "Lean" methodology, emphasizing a gradual, consistent, and people-centric approach to improvement, moving from chaos to efficiency and purpose-driven growth.
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so our father always said if you want to
create change and even to translate that
into what we're talking about if you
want if you want to create change in an
organization be a sheep dog instead of a
bulldog go about your goals steadily
consistently one small step at a time
kind of hide in the grass and you'll get
your desired outcome that's a mic drop
right there that is so so powerful I
certainly have been guilty of being that
bulldog in the past it's taken me almost
five decades to to waken up to becoming
more certainly my intention is to become
more of that sheep dog on today's show I
am delighted to welcome the wonderful
Ryan Tierney Ryan is the co-founder of
seaing matters a specialist in
therapeutic seating they're supporting
patients across the world Ryan is the
co-founder of seating matters where with
his brothers Jonathan and
Martin it was a late night encounter
with an American Business leader that
led Ryan down the rabbit hole of all things
things
lean trauma I think triggered his change
and we're going to dig into that deeply
today h Ryan has been on this incredible
transformation not only is he Living
Lean learning lean teaching lean but I
have to say Mr Ryan Tierney you're
looking lean as well you're walking the
talk Ryan you're very very welcome to
skilax Insider thank you Brandon thanks
for having me absolutely delighted this
has been a long time coming uh so first
of all huge congratulations on your
wonderful book lean Med simple delighted
that you've finally put pen to paper and
and released this so it's really really
well done uh thank you I want
to uh open up as I always do you know
very well
our vision is to inspire connect and
enable millions of ambitious leaders of
small and medium-sized Enterprises to
scale with purpose so Ryan what does
scaling with purpose mean to you yeah I
was thinking about this last night
because I knew you were going to ask me
this um you ask all your guests you
start with the same question at the
start of all your episodes and I was
thinking I actually wrot it down a bit
of paper Skilling with purpose and then
I thought because I like writing and
come I come up with ideas when I write
so skill with purpose and then I thought
scaling with passion and then I thought
scale your passion and then I wrot
down scale your passion don't scale your
business scale your passion and I think
that's really what we should be doing is
scaling our
passion most people focus too much on
trying to scale the business but really
if you're passionate about something you
have an obligation to bring that message
to the world so it's I think it's more
about scaling your passion than scaling
the business and you might even find or
some people might find that they're not
even in the right business they're not
in the business that they're passionate
about so once you find your passion as I
have which I'm really thankful that I
have once you find your passion it's so
easy to scale that so I
almost it's maybe a quote for your
marketing for simple scaling don't scale
your business
skill your
passion yeah I love that because I often
say that your business is just a fuller
expression of you mhm and we see that in
evidence right across your wonderful
business here uh we have the privilege
of being actually in seing matters today
and as with everything you do you do it
to a worldclass standard including your
wonderful podcast Studio
here I do assert that if you've got a a
wonderful product or service then you've
an obligation to bring that to the world
and certainly you are bringing this to
the world not only the product but the
way the product is actually uh
manufactured the culture that you're
creating here so let's just go back to
that night I alluded to it in the
opening and I do believe that people
often wait on trauma to trigger change I
mean everything that you're doing now
you're appealing people to not wait on
the trauma before they trigger the
change but can you bring us back to that
that night when you're sitting alone
your kitchen table in kind of
desperation yeah what were you feeling
what was going on with the in the
business at that stage and just share a
little bit of that story yeah so we
started the business in 2008 and the
first seven or eight years of business
was pretty chaotic we didn't know what
we were doing myself and my three
brothers we were 17 18 and 19 uh we
didn't go to universary no business
degrees we were kind of making this up
as we went along to be really honest and
we started on a really small Workshop
behind our family home um we made the
first product the first chair we sold it
locally we made another own we kind of
it started from absolutely nothing only
only an idea that our mother had for
better seating better chairs
and so the first seven or eight years
was kind of stabbing in the dark and
just going for it and trying about this
and about of that but I'm on the the
operations and Manufacturing side of the
business and for
me life was just chaos our business
operationally was a mess our Factory was
a mess we sent defects to our customers
on a daily basis with a really high
staff turnover
uh the place was dirty the place was
dark the place was it really wasn't a
nice environment for working in and I
was stressed out I wasn't eating I wasn't
wasn't sleeping
sleeping
um I really wasn't in a good place and
you know if if any of the listeners
think of the worst company they' ever
heard of or seen we were that company we
we were the worst company I've ever seen
AB absolute chaos and I went home one
night and I was sitting at my kitchen
table with an iPad and I just said there
has to be there has to be a better way
I'm almost getting emotional even
thinking back to that time now because
it was a really tough time and I said
there has to be a better Waiter on this
business and I started typing in how to
manage a factory how to manage
production really generic terms into
YouTube and I came across thing called
Lyn I'd never heard of it before didn't
know what it was but something just
clicked in my brain and this big light
bulb went off and I was like why why did
nobody tell me this before this is crazy
it was a guy Paul eers that I came
across originally and Paul was doing
this tour he was going around his
Factory on a scooter and I thought this
guy is
crazy um talking about this thing called
Lan where everybody in the company makes
small improvements every day to make
their life and their work better and
part of me thought is this all kind of
made up for YouTube is this all edited
who is this random American crazy person
and so me being me I reached out to Paul
Acres that day like straight away I took
action and I got on a plane and went to see
see
him and what what happened over the next
few weeks and months was just transform
formative um when I went to see Paul's
Factory I spent a couple of days there
when I went to see his Factory it wasn't
like it was in YouTube it was 10 times
better and I I I was so excited to start
implementing Lan into our business and
thankfully I stuck at it thankfully I
did because the results and the
transformation that we've had has just
been incredible well I can testify to
those results
it's a
real privilege and we are blessed to
have you guys in Northern Ireland 60 mes
away from our home we now host our
process workshops in your in your
company we get the honor of actually you
sharing the story with the participants
in our program everything you describe
I'm really struggling uh to comprehend because
because
it's the
opposite in terms of what I know you to
be the company that you're running what
I what I witness on your factory floor
very very challenging for me to to
Really comprehend that yeah the Paul
we've we've both met uh you know Paul
very very well
well
ironically Paul I connected with Paul
not in a dissimilar way actually
and he introduced me to you I said who's
an exampler of of this lean that you're
talking about and he says oh you must
know the seing matters guys I I I
struggled to hear what he was actually
saying and I was what seing matters no I
I haven't heard of those guys the Tey
guys they're smashing it and um so
apologies for the American accent there
but uh he's he's intensely focused on
all things lean I come from a Manufacturing
Manufacturing
uh background in terms of I I've led a
manufacturing business my understanding
of lean when whenever I first came
across it was this you know fiveyear
degree and you had to go through these
belts and you're going to be a yellow
belt and a green belt and a black belt
and uh you you had to be incredibly
clever to really understand this and to
apply this in a manufacturing
environment so it wasn't very relatable
to me even though I was leading Manu
ufacturing company so you're a really
practical guy for those
listening what actually is Lan yeah and
one of the things I that I get so
excited about is breaking down complex
things into the simple ideas I just I
just love doing it because I I do think
simple I speak simple I don't use fancy
words um and I think that's why the
message is really relatable because a
lot of people like the Simplicity of the
message but basically in one sentence
lean is a accumulation of small ideas from
from
everyone that that's really all it is
another way of saying it is lean is a
system to get more out of life so I'll
just go back to the first one Lan is a
is the accumulation of small ideas from
everyone 10 years ago our company was a
mess an absolute mess and I started
myself and maybe one or two others to go
around and physically organize the
factory organize production set of
processes but all the processes fell
flat on their
face and then I would get excited and do
another blast of improvement and I would
kind of taper off and it would fall flat
in its face again and I realized that
there was all these pics and troughs
because there was no culture in place to
sustain the change so the key and this
is the absolute key to efficiency the
key to productivity the key
to the key to Lane is to engage every
single person in the company to make
small improvements one or two people
can't do this and that's why uh
apologies to any Lan Consultants
listening that's why LAN consultancy
doesn't really work because they go into
a company for a three or four week blast
and come out again but they don't embed
the culture yeah so lanee is a
accumulation of small ideas from
everyone not the lane team not the
people in operations everyone because
the biggest waste of all there there's
eight wastes which we can get into later
if you like but the biggest waste just
to get straight to the point is the
waste of untapped
potential and every company
has a bank or a reserve of talent and a
and knowledge and they never tap into it
and it's the biggest waste and that's
all leans do is bringing those ideas out
there's a number of strands to
this firstly Einstein has characterized
five hierarchies
of intelligence you know it starts with
smart uh intelligent brilliant
genius and transcending all of that is
simple so why you're saying I'm just a
simple guy I like you know taking
complex things and breaking them down
you're quite exceptional and there's a
couple of things just to share with the
listeners you mentioned right at the
outset you went and visited Paul aers uh
you guys uh yourself Martin
Jonathan always go to the source yeah
and when I think of the source in terms
of what you're saying here I think of
another guy who you you guys have
visited Warren buff and uh his deceased
his wonderful who's now deceased
business partner Charlie monger and
Charlie Monger talked about the eighth
wonder of the world was compound
interest and when you share with me the
definition of lean I think analogous to
compound interest is actually compound
Improvement M so in essence the kind of
the Eighth Wonder here is the the power
the impact the efficacy of compound improvements
improvements
yeah so let's just start it's the
question that everyone asks whenever you
factory where where do we start you mean
you've you've lay it out and I encourage
everybody to go and grab a copy of your
book 12 proven steps for creating a a
vibrant lean culture so let's get into
this what I'd love to do as a little
mini Master Class yeah what's number one
where we start yep so the reason I I
wrote the book lean Made Simple is that
we do tours all the time like there's
actually a tour happening right now as
we speak uh we have two or three tours
um a week through our company and people
fly literally and it's if somebody would
have told me this 10 years ago people
fly from all over the world to see our
company like last week was Brazil
America Argentina uh this Denmark Norway
England literally they they book a
flight and they come just for the tour
yeah the irony on to this now is you
have the Japanese coming in to visit
yeah which is wonderful yeah the
Japanese have been here as
well so people are coming they love what
they say it's a four or five out here
it's an overload to the census you know
they can see what's happening the color
coding the visuals the organization the
product flowing through the factory the people
people
engagement but then they say I love it I
get it but where do we start what do we
actually do what's the first step and
that's why I wrote the book because
everything in life is a process how we
brush our teeth how we uh make our
breakfast how we send an email how we
run a meeting so why should building a
culture be any different and I seen this
massive Gap that there was no literature
no books out there for having a process
for how to build a lean
culture so if we think if we go back a
step and think about what is culture the
simplest version I can think of to
explain culture is that it's grip habit
culture is grip habit it's how a group
of people act think or behave so in our
company we have a culture where
everybody just without thinking
everybody just improves stuff we just
make stuff better all the time we have
60 people making small improvements all
the time so it makes sense if you want
to find out how to be more efficient how
to increase productivity you build a
culture well then how do you build a
culture well there's 12 steps to
building the culture and that's where
the book came from and the first step in
the book and it's number one for a
reason is that the leader must be fully
engaged in the process chapter number
leaders yeah something that strikes me
when you say this and this is again
analogous to
something that we always say which
scaling starts from the inside out now
that sounds a little philosophical but
actually as we said at the outset the
business is only an expression of you mhm
mhm
yeah and it's clear that you have this
passion for
lean for those maybe not of an
operational mindset who are not
necessarily someone who loves to jump on
a JB loading shovel or spend hours down
on a factory floor yeah when you say
that you know it starts with the
leader what does that introspection look
like what what process must we go
through as as a leader to actually
arrive at the point where and I've
witnessed this Beverly the sewing
machinist is host a morning meeting and
we'll get to that in a moment yeah and
sharing gratitudes sharing improvements
inviting discussion from others and
Beverly could be my mother you know and
I could never envisage my mother
standing up there sharing this stuff
hosting very confidently you know the
your people didn't Rock in one day and
start to think about improvements So
when you say I I don't want this to be
abstract when you say it starts with the
leader mhm what does that start look
like yeah that's that's a brilliant
question um I always say you don't
Implement lane or you don't Embrace Lane
you create a culture that Embraces Lane
and you can't create a culture until the
decision makers the owners the Senior
Management say yes we're doing this so
if you're listening to this thinking I'm
not really as excited about lay is Ryan
and I might everybody that's okay as
long as you give the goahead for it as
long as it's one of the key pillars of
the business as long as it's an
important part of uh decision making as long
long
as uh Senior Management have the
authority and the go ahead to go and
implement this because I've seen so many
companies that start Lan in one
department and it goes for a while 3 or
four months 6 months maybe maybe even a
year but then it falls that again
because Senior Management or owners of
the company aren't really that into it
and if they're not that into it and not
supporting it it'll run for a while but
then it'll it'll fade away so that's why
I I put it as number one the number one
step is that the leaders must fully
embrace the change if they're not as
excited as me or Paul lres that's okay
but you have to give the go ahead they
have to give the authority to go ahead
and and put their support behind it yeah
and typically seen as the domain of
factory managers yeah you know lean is
is
synonymous with manufacturing
environments and there's no accident in
that it you know its Origins are in the
Toyota production system yeah but
actually what I've witnessed in your
business is lean just in every corner
you walk into the accounts office and
it's just screaming lean it's phenom
phenomenal and I think a big part of
this is as a result of the the some of
the Practical steps that that you guys
have implemented in order to embed lean
right across the business yeah which
moves us on to the second step the
morning meeting tell us about the
morning meeting because it seems to be a
critical part of implementing Lan it
absolutely is and and that's I put it as
one of the steps and one of the chapters
of the book because we tried to do lean
without the morning
meeting and it sounds like a simple
thing but it is I just want everybody to
internalize how big of a thing this is
we tried to re without a morning meeting
so I'll just go back a step and explain
the morning meeting so at our company we
have 60 people all 60 people Gather in
our morning meeting area every morning
uh we have a 15 to 20 minute meeting uh
we start off with the Gratitude what are
we grateful grateful for today and three
or four people are picked it around them
then we do stretches which seems very
weird and out there for a lot of
companies and it was for us as well if
you see where our Factory is located
we're in the middle of the mountains in
liar you know we're not this Hightech
yeah this isn't Silicon Valley no it's
not so this type of thinking was so
foreign for us so so if we can do it
anybody can do it so we start with
gratitude then we do stretches then we
talk about our favorite improvements
from yesterday so we'll just play Quick
videos we put them up on a big TV and we
show a a video from somebody from the
accounts office or somebody from the
sewing department or somebody from the
welding area the next thing we do is we
rotate the meeting so a different person
hosts the meeting every day because I
found when we implemented Lan at the
start it was me holding the meetings
every day and people were kind of like
there's Ryan going on with L again you
know when's ever going to give over but
when I stepped back and allowed every
other person in the company to take
their turn to host a meeting it it's it
uh there was this peer-to-peer learning
that took place because manager to
employee or company owner to employee
there's a different energy there but
when there's peer-to-peer learning
people can actually pick it up quicker
and we found that was the one of the
most powerful ways to engage and teach
Lane was for everybody to teach each
other so so when you started this you know
know
Ryan excited by the YouTube videos by
what Paul eers was doing and he's going
around his scooter in his Factory and
then you're trying to bring this in here
here
completely different cultures huge
contrast and cultures between fast cap
then and and seaing matters
then share with me a little bit of the
challenges the discomfort around this
morning meeting you standing up there
what reception did you get when you were
summonsing people for the first time to
to come together around as a group and
you know was it engagement straight away
was it rolling eyes was it you know this
is a waste of time we've just taken 25
minutes out of a production if I count
that by 60 people like we've wasted ours
here when we should be actually you know
sewing seats yeah what what was you know
share with me some of the some of the
the challenges and what was going on in
your head in your mind as you were
facing those challenges yeah well this
is actually really interesting and I
don't think I've shared this before on a
podcast or video but the reason that we
didn't hold morning meetings at the
start was that me as one of the company
owners had never stood up in front of
all our people before I'd never done it
and I was my confidence was at an
alltime low I like speak public speaking
was one of my worst nightmares even my
wedding speace I'm I'm married 10 years
now in a couple of weeks time but I
still remember my wedding space I
I I stressed out about that for about
six months coming up to the
wedding and that's the reason we didn't
do Lan because all the stuff that I
learned about Lane was saying you know
you have to re meeting to engage your
people to Tes and waste and I was like I
love Lane I love all the stuff but I am
not the M I am not standing up in front
of all of our people talking about
anything never mind Lane I I can't do it
I hadn't the confidence to stand up in
front of everybody and that's why we
didn't have a morning
meeting and I had to get over
myself and I had to fill myself up with
as much energy and knowledge and passion
about Lane as I could so that I could
overcome that and that was one of the
biggest challenges for me and once I got
over that and I think that's now why
people can relate to lanade symbol and
relate to what we're doing because
there's loads of company owners out
there that aren't the most confident
person in the room you know people
there's this misconception that if
you're a company owner you're you're
brilliant at all this stuff and that
wasn't me at all you know out of the
three of us the Three Brothers Jonathan
and Martin they're the sales guys
they're they're out talking to customers
they they're doing presentations I was
the one running the factory I was in the
background and I had never done anything
like this before so been I've never
shared this before so this is a this is
a first but
that's the biggest challenge for me was
putting myself out there yeah and I know
the three of you guys well at this stage
and it's fair to say you are the quieter
more introverted of the of the Trinity
of the Tierney
Trinity something that Rob dial shared
with me on the podcast last
season he hosts a podcast ask a couple
of million subscribers on YouTube he
goes by the moniker the mindset mentor
and I poked at this
this this discernment
discernment
of fear because it's a genuine fear and
actually you should move away from it
and fear because it's
discomfort but actually engaging with
that discomfort is going to lead to
growth growth of self growth of your
team growth of of of the
organization and a question that he
invited me and the listeners to
pose is that one that is this discomfort
I'm about to face now that I I'm
contemplating leaning into going to
bring me closer to my goals or aare from
my goals now I have I'm able to share
that language now I'm sure that will
wasn't uh the language as you were
journaling on the morning where you were
about to present yeah how did you arrive
at a point where you in your words got
over yourself and put yourself in that
in that situation of absolute
discomfort for something greater what
what decision did you come up with or
was it such that you were experiencing
so much trauma on the the operation side
of the business that was a case of well
if it's not this what is it yeah well I
I think a reason that most people don't
take Massive Action is that they're not
feeling enough hurt or enough trauma or
it's not bad enough to do anything about
and the situation was so bad I had to do
something and it was either go this way
or Remain the way it is and I didn't
want it I didn't want the business or my
life to say the I was so I had to move
on but this is interesting the way I
done that was that I applied Lane
principles so Lan is the accumulation of
small ideas and we all understand that
small ideas add up but I have inter
internalized the point that small ideas
add up if you make one Improvement per
day it's it's not a graph like this it's
an exponential graph over the next 10
years so we've been doing Lane for 10
years every single day and the results
are exponential so I applied that same
thinking to the first morning meeting
right what's the one simple thing I can
do I don't have to be a Ted do a TED
Talk it doesn't have to be this massive
presentation what's the one simple thing
I can do so I started with a five minute
morning meeting then I prepared five
questions then we got a TV then we got a
pre an iPad to help with a presentation
then we so small small incremental
improvements so the first meeting was an
a for laminated page with five questions
on it and I was hiding behind the page
then the next day I was able to drop the
page and kind of relax a bit the next
day I would move my hands the next day I
would ask somebody a question so small
incremental improvements and that's what
lean is is small incremental
improvements so if you want to transform
your business transform your body
transform your life what's what what's
one thing you can do today yeah I again
there's so much in this I and what we're
appealing to people to do is take that
minimum viable action which is just
bringing them a little bit closer to their
their
goal we talk about leading self first
before you lead others before you lead
an organization for those who haven't
been to seing matters of course I
encourage you if you can drive here
drive here jump on a plane to get here
do whatever it takes to get here to
witness what you're speaking about
because the ripple effect of you making
that one decision to stand up there with
the the laminated card for a couple of
minutes in extreme
discomfort has now roll on 10 years
later led to you becoming a global
Exemplar of all things lean people as
you sure visiting from right across the
world and if you hadn't made that
decision kind of there's a sliding doors
moment there where What would life have
been like if you hadn't made that
decision to embrace discomfort and I
suspect that it would just continued to
lead to frustration with yourself which
would have been expressed in frustration
with your team the organization and what
we typically do is then use all sorts of
excuses to say well you know our seats
aren't good enough the economy is
difficult interest rates are high all of
those things uh that we use as external
excuses why we won't
change just before we move on from the
morning meeting and I'm I'm conscious
we've we've 12 to go through but the the
the first two are really really critical
I feel and people are always curious
about the morning medeia and we'll sign
post people to to your wonderful YouTube
channel in terms of the getting into the
detail of the morning meeting
but the the
practicalities does it have to be every
morning if I'm starting can it be you
know once a week if I'm running a a
remote organization if I'm you know in a
knowledge based uh industry and not in a factory
factory
environment does all of this apply how
how can we kind of practically implement
it for remote workers for knowledge
based workers uh can you share a little
bit about that yeah the first thing is
that lane works everywhere doesn't
matter what industry you're in what
business you're in in fact I even
encourage people to not call it lean you
know Call It Whatever such your company
call it getting better every day call it
continuous Improvement call it kand
put whatever name you want on it and and
find a name or a terminology that fits
your business we call it Lan we just
that's we started calling Lan and we
continued but there's there's loads of
companies that come here and her and
they say Lan has this um you know it
almost has a a negative connotation to
it sometimes because oh we tried that
lean thing in the past and it didn't
work or people see Len as this thing to
get more done with less people and all
this there's these misconceptions around
Lane so I would encourage people to not
even call it Lan Call It Whatever sits
your business so once we've got that uh
that uh out of the way the next stage is
how do you implement this and how do you
implement the morning meeting the exact
same is the way we done we just done one
a week then we built it up to two a week
then three a week then four a week then
we do a morning meeting every day now
but for somebody to start from zero that
has never heard of Lane possibly coming
across Cross Lane for the first time on
this podcast I would encourage you to
start with one morning meeting a week
even one every two weeks just it's it's
small improvements small gradual
improvements that's how we do everything
it's the Japanese talk about stable
change and this is something that I've
internalized is this idea of stable
change the worst thing thing we can do
is or the worst thing somebody listening
to this can do is go back to their
company and say I've heard this podcast
it's a single Lane we're going to rip
the whole place apart it just doesn't
work like that you're better going slow
and steady and creating stable change
small improvements extraordinary results
are gained by ordinary things over a
long period of time that that's all it
is yeah and it's that consistency of
implementation and go back to something
something
that I read years ago and was really
stuck with me is it's the start that
stops most people
yes and we're just appaling to people to
make that start just that's begin uh
embrace your discomfort and the
understanding that there's a bigger
prize there's a bigger prize for you
there's a bigger prize for your team
there's a bigger prize for your
organization and can you imagine the
number of patients who wouldn't have
access to your incredible seats your
incredible product if you hadn't of
taken that
step and I love the fact that you're
calling out the kind of the the lane
label don't call it Lane uh sir da of BR
braford who is famous for socializing
this concept of marginal gains it's
exactly the same thing the 1%
improvements every time he embedded it
in the sky cycling team you know looked
at kind of bringing their the
athletes um mattresses and pillows to
help with their sleep if they could just
get uh 1% more on their sleep score and
he looked at that right across the
entire organization and of course the
Olympic cycling team went on to smash
all previous records as a result of his
involvement of socializing this idea of
compound improvements just in the marginal
marginal
improvements label so I love the fact
drop the lean label create a lean
leaders group step number three uh you
talked about the importance of kind of
this peer-to-peer learning so lean
leaders group you know presumably you're
looking down those first few meetings uh
seeing whose eyes are lighting up how do
we how do we go about creating this lean
leaders group yep it's a key component
to building the vibrant lean culture
because this is hard work it's not an
easy thing to do and I'm very open about
that if it was easy everybody would
every company would be doing Lane so one
of the ways to make it easier is to have
a group of people that are behind the
idea and driving the change and this is
something that I didn't do and that's
why I've put it in the book we didn't do
it early enough so I was there was me
and maybe one or two others really
trying to drive this change drive the
change drive the change and then when I
stepped back and said okay what if I
could just focus on eight
people we had maybe 40 people back at
that time if I could focus on eight
people and get them so excited spend all
my time with those eight people you know
have learning clubs have book clubs
let's watch videos together let's
discuss the videos let's go and see
companies let's tour other factories and
bring that knowledge back and that was
the best thing I ever done because it
took the weight off me and it wasn't
Ryan's Lane program anymore it was no
there's now eight people that are really
excited about this and then those eight
were able to motivate and Inspire the
next group so if there's one takeaway from
from
this podcast or this book is get a lean
leaders script get a group of people and
focus all your energy into them and get
them excited to deliver it to the next
yeah level I love I love that and again
that's the start
of creating this ripple effect initially
you're the stone that drops into the
pond and as the Ripple goes out a little
bit further it's that kind of
concentration of your focus on four five
six people who really grasp this and are
excited about this you're going to shirt
with four five six others and all of a
sudden kind of the Ripple goes it it
goes out wider and wider and something you
you
sure I get challenged all the time with
simple scaling you know scaling isn't
simple I well you're actually confusing
the word simple with easy simple means
uncomplicated but don't confuse that
with not requiring effort this requires
huge effort this requires you to as
we've shed Embrace a level of discomfort
you're going to have to become a better
Communicator a more passionate
Communicator a more able
communicator but the prize is
significant at the other end of this um
once this this initial group get this
yeah creating an example area step
four something that really struck me
about Paul acker's teach chains is this
notion of show don't tell can you share
with us a little bit about this Yep this
was a massive thing that we done at the
start of our lean Journey um I had to
make lean visual for people I wanted to
show people what lean looked like
because it's okay talking about all the
stuff and showing videos and reading
books but I wanted an area of our
Factory an area of our company where I
could bring people and say come on monor
and see exactly what I mean by Lan so we
set up one area it was the frame
assembly area we dialed that place and
we painted the floors new lights new
tools they're all shadowed the place was
like a tiny tiny piece of Japan right
there in the corner of our Factory love
it and then we were able to bring the
accounts team out the marketing team the
sewing team and say this is what we're
trying to do and if you like the idea of
that imagine your work area like this so
it started with a physical because I
think people need a
physical example physical representation
to kind of instill that that thinking so
that physical example in our Factory was
the best thing we ever done and I
encourage people now that are starting
on their Lane journey is to focus on one
small area like them like all the
everything we're talking about focus on
one area actually one workstation one
desk one anything one Department and
make that the absolute Exemplar of Lane
like go all in and then show the before
and after photographs or videos to this
is how it was and this is how it looks
now something you've hit on there
because to sell this to people I mean
they're not going to buy into the fact
that if we do leane and we're going to
become more profitable as a
company this company is going to become
more valuable wonderful for the sure
holders But
ultimately and I interviewed Joe
polish oh many seasons ago he wrote a
book called what's in it for them
yeah so what's in it for them what's in
it for your people showing them this
example of what could be yeah how do you
sell to them that the effort that you
should apply now is worth it to get to
there what's in it for them yeah I I
talk about something called the Lan
Deale and this is something that I
learned from a guy in Germany Michael
Alto I went to visit his company and he
really uh encouraged me to understand
this this was early on our Lan journey
and basically the lean deal is the
understanding that there's three parties
involved here there's the company
there's the customer and there's the
employees and Lan must work for all
three parties in order for it to work so
if I went to um C in the welding area C
is one of our welders if I went to C and
said c we're starting this thing called
Lane and you have to do all these
improvements reduce the the workload
improve late time so that we can serve
the customer
better Cody would say well I don't know
the customer I never see the customer I
work in production there's no connection
there there isn't enough motivation yeah
I'm just well in Fram every one frame
same as the next frame is the same as
the next framea yeah that all sounds
wonderful Ryan and I hear you and all
but old I'm just welting frames here so
there isn't enough motivation for Kore
to act similarly if I went to Kore and
said c if you make all these
improvements we can actually make the
company more profitable what do you
think of that we can you know increase
the return of investment for the
shareholders straight away C's there's
no motivation there for C act but in the
Lan deal we say Okay C if you can make
your job easier just make your job
easier focus on fixing things that annoy
you R just the struggle you're going to
enjoy work more you're going to love
coming to work you're going to feel like
you're working somewhere where your
ideas matter if you do that guess what
happens our late time reges quality gets
better customer service gets better if
we can make all those things better
guess what we're going to sell more
product and if we sell more product the
business is going to grow and we're
going to have more time to invest in new
technologies and more time to invest in
new a new workstation and a new canteen
and a new facility and new whatever so
there's this cycle where all three
parties benefit and this is the bit that
it took us five years to figure out Lan
will not work until everybody
understands that Lan is as beneficial
for them
as as it is for the company and the
customer I love that the lean deal yeah
Cody's thumbs up Ryan I'm in I I want my
job to be easier I'd love to get away
here at 5:00 in the evening spend time
with my friends my family um I'm excited
about this we get into step five then
you've got to you've got to teach Cody
to have wte goggles to to be able to see
waste and this isn't something that is
going to be or maybe it is is it is it
intuitive or what does that
teaching look like in practice for Cody
go yeah everything you're describing to
me Ryan that makes complete sense of
course I want my job to be easier yeah
you know there's nothing about what
you've just shared with me I don't like
waste I think the first thing there is
is that something we talk a lot about is
value and nonv
value and every time or every time I go
to Japan every time I watch another
video every time I read another book
online my understanding of value
changes so value is anything the
customer is willing to pay for or any
time that the product is
changing okay so those two things so if
we go with the second one anytime the
product is changing we'll go back to C
again if Cy is in the welding
Department the second that those two
bits of metal are being welded together as
as
value and anything else whether we like
it or not is waste or nonv value so
walking to get the metal asking somebody
a question looking for your tools all
these things are nonv value so all we're
trying to do in the spirit of continuous
Improvement in the spirit of Lan is to
just nonv value how do we re just nonv
value you just make small improvements
so today we would have made 30 or 40 or
50 improvements to our Factory like
right here this morning somebody would
have label their tool somebody would
have made a place for their uh the torch
for their welding gun somebody would
have made a place for the bobbin for
their sewing machine somebody might have
brought a trolley closer to them so they
don't have to walk those five steps
every day so we're making these small
incremental improvements all the time
and the accumulation of these
improvements R just all the nonv value
and that's all we're trying to do is
really just nonv value but the key back
to the the the step five the key is not
for me just to see the nonv value it's
for everybody to see the nonv value
because then you have a Powerhouse you
have a mastermind of every single person
in your company coming together to just
waste yeah we say like we're at war with
waste I love that I love that so people
culture of the collective coming in
every day literally kind of putting
their metaphorical waste goggles on
looking for areas within their own
domain where they're actually creating
nonv value or doing nonv value
activities and they're focused on
activities integral to that is Step
number six which is something that you
introduce into the business which is a
focus on Improvement time yeah so what
does that look like practically so
practically what that looks like is that
before Lane our working hours were 8:00
a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and our thinking and
most companies thinking is that we come
to work at 8:00 and we start
working what we do and this was a a very
foreign idea what we do is we we have a
morning meeting for 15 minutes and then
we have 30 minutes of Improvement time
so we're actually not starting
production until
8:45 and at the start I was like I was
getting my calculator out and saying 45
minutes times 50 people no way we can't
do it and we struggled to do it but it
wasn't until we implemented Improvement
time that productivity and efficiency
went through the Riff because we don't
get better if we don't take time to get
better so really what we're doing with
we've built Improvement into our daily
Kata we talk about Kata which is our
daily routine morning meeting then we
improve then we
work I I love that intentionality
there's a there's a deliberate intention
there to be better there's a deliberate
intention there to remove nonv Valu aded
activities and I think we're all guilty
of being subject to the traditional
working paradigm we all March into
factories you know uh at clock in at
8:00 get straight onto the tools and
March out again and for many of us can't
wait to March out again at 5:00 and
start living
again the intentionality by which you
are focused on removing nonv value is is
quite incredible and I've witnessed this
firsthand you introduced the first of
the Japanese terms Kata uh for those who
practice martial arts you'll be familiar
with Kata as a pattern or routine or
ritual a way of doing
things step seven is another Japanese
term Yoko 10 you know
the uh the step of introducing yokan
into the business what is yoken yeah
yokan is a Japanese word for sharing
ideas laterally across an organization
so very simply if I lift my phone now
I've got my phone on my hand and I'm
going to to go to a WhatsApp group that
we have so this is our yokan WhatsApp
group and this is all the improvements
we've made today just today like for
those listening uh what Ryan is
sharing is uh quite a number of videos
now we're recording this it's uh midday
and already there are scores of
videos on his WhatsApp Channel what's
the the WhatsApp channel is called uh SM
lean improvements so a dedicated
WhatsApp channel for people to share
their improvements and is that open to
everyone within the company Ryan is it
just for you know Cody and the welding
area you know what what's the
practicalities of that WhatsApp channel
so everybody in our company is on the
WhatsApp Channel and everybody has to
upload their improvements so the purpose
of this is to show contrast because
contrast is one of the most powerful
ways to learn or to to to teach so we
put up and it's really quick we put up a
before video this is before I had to
walk three steps to go and get my drill
hello it's Kylie here I'm back here this
is my after I've moved my drill right
beside me so I'm now Regis 600 steps per
year that's all the video is it's just
Tak on your phone upload it onto the
WhatsApp group and then we play those
those videos at the morning meeting the
next day so it's you can't help but be
here and not improved because everybody
around you is improving it's on the
morning meeting it's in the WhatsApp
group every time you talk to somebody
they're working on an improvement it
just create the yokan WhatsApp group
just creates
this this Rhythm it just keeps the
rhythm going of of of improvement yeah
and again like you've shed that in in 60
seconds but intrinsic in that is so so
much back to the culture again the fact
that you know Beverly Cody Beverly in
the the sewing machine
room uh Cody the welder like they are
taking time to Sure improvements to
actually video These to put them on a
public WhatsApp you know if we think of
how people typically operate it's walk
into the company keep your head down
hopefully I'm not
and I'll be out of here by 5:00 again uh
uh
you can't contemplate actually putting
yourself on a public WhatsApp channel uh
for fear of judgment for fear of being
ridiculed for fear that actually for
fear of
comparison so implied in that kind of
simple back to that word again that
simple step of creating a WhatsApp
Channel which is reflective of this
Japanese term yukatan which is sharing
ideas laterally is the fact that the
culture yeah um supports all of this no
one people are people are dying to sure
their improvements they don't think
about the the fear of rejection the fear
of judgment uh the fear of ridicule all
of those fears that that we develop over
time which brings me to that wonderful
James Clear quote that environment is
the Invisible Hand Which shapes all
human behavior and something else that
he said which I love in your step eight
is the importance of making Improvement
easy so make improving easy just share
with us a little bit about that how we
can practically make uh
this this concept of daily Improvement
very easy for people yeah so
if we're asking everybody and
encouraging everybody to make
improvements well then the first thing
is how how how do I do this how do I
make improvements so it's really really
important and it's a key step in
creating a a culture a lan culture is
that we need to make the process of
making improvements improvements easy we
need to improve the process of making
improvements so to make a label to make
a to get a new stream deck device for
your computer to save clicks to
uh create an sop a standard work it
should be so easy to do that because if
the barrier for entry is so low then the
chances are more people are going to do
it and everybody's going to do it so we
went through this for about two years
where it was just so hard and so much
red tape and you had to this person had
to sign it off and somebody had else had
to sign off the Improvement and then it
got allocated
for had to come off the budget and all
this nonsense was happening for us to be
able to make an improvement or make a
change and we see this a lot with
companies who come to visit their hands
are tied behind their back they're not
allowed to improve so the whole idea of
making improve and easy is getting rid
of all the red tape not not not in a way
that it sacrifices safy or anything but
getting rid of of as many barriers as
possible to make making improvements
easy so that more people are encouraged
to do it awareness is key there what are
some of the barriers that are really
obvious to you
now but are not necessarily obvious to
many others who haven't embarked in this
journey I I would say the biggest
barrier is people saying we've always
done it that way and it's okay just
leave it alone because in a lean culture
with a lean mindset you're always saying
there has to be a better way there has
to be a better way and we have 60 people
coming to work every day saying there
has has to be a better way so it's funny
you see it when people start here on
their first or second
week they just it's such a foreign idea
to to you know the fact that you're
encouraged to do something different
you're encouraged to challenge the norm
you're encouraged to improve the process
they're almost saying are you sure I'm
allowed to do this because in my
previous job my my previous career this
would have been such a foreign idea so
the fact that we're allowing and giving
people the autonomy and the freedom to
go ahead and make something better
without all this red tape it's just
phenomenal yeah back to culture again
it's that invitation that's just
pervasive within the culture for people
to step up and to share an improvement
where it's characteristic in most most
companies just to get on with the job
not to be perceived as challenging where
you're Act L goting people into to
challenge what you're doing on a daily
basis uh which I love um moving to kind
of we move through steps 9 10 and 11
before we uh wrap up with with step 12
uh so solving your inventory problem
step nine creating standard operating
procedures step 10 and implementing
total ownership we're getting kind of uh
more specific there but do you want to share
share
some of the
practicalities that are aligned to steps
9 to 11 yeah would go straight to the
the create sop ones because that's a
massive thing and this is only in the
last year and a half where we've really
internalized I talk about this idea
internalizing a lot yeah it's a word you
use a lot actually and I found myself
using it now as well I I get that you
know in terms of really not just reading
something but really living what you're
reading uh true understanding and
implementation as opposed to just yeah
you I've heard that before yeah so about
a year and a half ago we had the
pleasure of welcoming Mr amazawa and Mr
Amura Mr amazawa is a former vice
president of Lexus Mr omura is the is
the president of a tier 2 supplier to
Toyota so both these Japanese guys
came to visit our Factory
and they absolutely ripped us apart this
is only a year and a half ago my God
because I've known this place for quite
a number of years now I can't imagine
what was left to rip
apart so we're about 8 years into our
journey thinking we're going well we're
getting her head around this Lane thing
and they came in and said the main thing
they said was that you're you've no you
haven't got enough Sops or standard
operating procedures in your business so
for people are hearing that for the
first time again this is a word or an
acronym that's typically synonymous with Lane and and I can kind of conscious of
Lane and and I can kind of conscious of people rolling the rise now what is a
people rolling the rise now what is a standard operating procedure yeah well I
standard operating procedure yeah well I rolled my eyes as well for eight years
rolled my eyes as well for eight years until I really got this because a
until I really got this because a standard operating procedure is
standard operating procedure is basically instructions for how to do
basically instructions for how to do something it's letting someone else know
something it's letting someone else know how to do something if you're off that's
how to do something if you're off that's that's how we look at it so how to set
that's how we look at it so how to set up this podcast room has an sop so so if
up this podcast room has an sop so so if Mark can't be here for some reason
Mark can't be here for some reason someone else can step in follow the SOP
someone else can step in follow the SOP and set up the podcast our morning
and set up the podcast our morning meeting has a 12-step process for how to
meeting has a 12-step process for how to set up the morning meeting the we turn
set up the morning meeting the we turn on the TV then we use we set up the
on the TV then we use we set up the PowerPoint then we turn on the lights
PowerPoint then we turn on the lights and we make sure the heatness this
and we make sure the heatness this temperature there's a 12-step process to
temperature there's a 12-step process to setting up the meeting because the goal
setting up the meeting because the goal of every organization not even a lean
of every organization not even a lean organization the goal of every
organization the goal of every organization is to deliver consistency
organization is to deliver consistency and how can you deliver consistency to
and how can you deliver consistency to the customer if you don't have a
the customer if you don't have a procedure in place and most procedures
procedure in place and most procedures are in people's head they're somewhere
are in people's head they're somewhere that isn't visible so you might as well
that isn't visible so you might as well not even have them so we are going all
not even have them so we are going all in and we have went all in in the last
in and we have went all in in the last 12 months on this sop like blast we have
12 months on this sop like blast we have Sops for everything for absolutely
Sops for everything for absolutely everything and the result of it is that
everything and the result of it is that work is Cal work flows value flows to
work is Cal work flows value flows to the customer without any blockages
the customer without any blockages because when that person is away in
because when that person is away in Spain on their holidays somebody else
Spain on their holidays somebody else can step in and send the invoice or do
can step in and send the invoice or do the daily production report or send the
the daily production report or send the marketing report because there's an
marketing report because there's an sop so this if we're going back to
sop so this if we're going back to scaling you know how can you scale a
scaling you know how can you scale a business of all the knowledge is in
business of all the knowledge is in everybody's head the goal for us is to
everybody's head the goal for us is to improve the system improve the process
improve the system improve the process which free people up so so really we
which free people up so so really we want a self-managing business that's
want a self-managing business that's really what we want yeah and there's a
really what we want yeah and there's a number of things in this and I have
number of things in this and I have shared this lots of different occasions
shared this lots of different occasions but first of all it's that Mantra that
but first of all it's that Mantra that systems will set you free it should be
systems will set you free it should be the goal of every leader to make
the goal of every leader to make themselves redundant and because
themselves redundant and because ultimately the more
ultimately the more value that you provide to the business
value that you provide to the business the less valuable the business actually
the less valuable the business actually is yeah
is yeah so what we mean by that is the more
so what we mean by that is the more dependent the business actually is on
dependent the business actually is on you the
you the less the more vulnerable it is to
less the more vulnerable it is to inconsistency when you're not around uh
inconsistency when you're not around uh and this goes for anybody within the
and this goes for anybody within the business and ultimately it's much much
business and ultimately it's much much less attractive to potential investors
less attractive to potential investors if you have you know private equity in
if you have you know private equity in mind if you have a trade sale in mind
mind if you have a trade sale in mind ultimately you want to be able to sell
ultimately you want to be able to sell this repeatable predictable
this repeatable predictable system something that is delivering
system something that is delivering significant results for you but is not
significant results for you but is not dependent on you being there to deliver
dependent on you being there to deliver those results and that's hugely
those results and that's hugely attractive to potential investors down
attractive to potential investors down the line something just to pick up there
the line something just to pick up there is the the innate fear that we have that
is the the innate fear that we have that of we share this knowledge if we write
of we share this knowledge if we write down what we do because you know I'm
down what we do because you know I'm special I you know this only I can do
special I you know this only I can do this job and if in some way I disclose
this job and if in some way I disclose that well I'm not quite that special and
that well I'm not quite that special and actually I go through this process in my
actually I go through this process in my head and it's 10 steps really and maybe
head and it's 10 steps really and maybe some of those steps are unconscious now
some of those steps are unconscious now cuz I'm doing them that often um how do
cuz I'm doing them that often um how do you encourage people to share what they
you encourage people to share what they do with
do with others in the understanding that if I
others in the understanding that if I make
make myself um
myself um dispensable in some way by sharing with
dispensable in some way by sharing with others well then I'm much more
others well then I'm much more vulnerable here to potentially not
vulnerable here to potentially not having a job in a couple of weeks time
having a job in a couple of weeks time if everyone can do it yeah how do you
if everyone can do it yeah how do you overcome that fear is that something you
overcome that fear is that something you encounter it's not something we
encounter it's not something we encounter now but I I absolutely
encounter now but I I absolutely understand it and the reason we don't
understand it and the reason we don't have that fear is that our culture is
have that fear is that our culture is our culture is designed in such a way
our culture is designed in such a way that doesn't allow for those
that doesn't allow for those fairs and every single person at our
fairs and every single person at our company understands that the goal of
company understands that the goal of this company is to serve the customer
this company is to serve the customer it's not about you it's not about me
it's not about you it's not about me it's not about me having all the
it's not about me having all the knowledge and I'm the only one that can
knowledge and I'm the only one that can send the accounts
send the accounts report it's not about you it's about the
report it's not about you it's about the customer so one of the concepts to
customer so one of the concepts to simplify that to break that down into a
simplify that to break that down into a simple form we talk about thinking of
simple form we talk about thinking of the next
the next person so if I'm thinking of the next
person so if I'm thinking of the next person I'm going to leave the standard
person I'm going to leave the standard work document so that when I'm on
work document so that when I'm on holidays in America somebody else can
holidays in America somebody else can follow that if I'm thinking of the next
follow that if I'm thinking of the next person I'm going to put a label on to
person I'm going to put a label on to say where to restock the batteries for
say where to restock the batteries for the remote control for the TV if I'm
the remote control for the TV if I'm thinking of the next person I'm going to
thinking of the next person I'm going to leave my job better than I found it so
leave my job better than I found it so even if I'm moving on to a different
even if I'm moving on to a different company or if I'm moving jobs I'm going
company or if I'm moving jobs I'm going to document my processes and leave it
to document my processes and leave it better for the next person so this
better for the next person so this concept is something that we talk about
concept is something that we talk about thinking of the next person and that
thinking of the next person and that thinking is instilled in everybody's uh
thinking is instilled in everybody's uh thinking here and that's why it's not a
thinking here and that's why it's not a problem for us yeah I love that you've
problem for us yeah I love that you've mentioned something there that
mentioned something there that is
is characterized or certainly the the All
characterized or certainly the the All Blacks the New Zealand All Blacks
Blacks the New Zealand All Blacks characterize their
characterize their culture with something that talk about
culture with something that talk about leaving the jersey better than you found
leaving the jersey better than you found it that don't own the Jersey nor should
it that don't own the Jersey nor should they be arrogant enough to think that um
they be arrogant enough to think that um well this is mine now and kind of I I
well this is mine now and kind of I I own it they're simply borrowing it and
own it they're simply borrowing it and the aim is to make this better uh for
the aim is to make this better uh for the next person I love that and this
the next person I love that and this concept of really a servant mentality
concept of really a servant mentality it's a growth mindset you know using
it's a growth mindset you know using that term that Carl dwac has socialized
that term that Carl dwac has socialized now in her book mindset it's an AB
now in her book mindset it's an AB mindset even you sharing these 12 steps
mindset even you sharing these 12 steps in a book and giving hundreds if not
in a book and giving hundreds if not thousands of copies of this book
away the typical scarcity mindset is I've got the magic sauce why would I
I've got the magic sauce why would I sure this yeah
sure this yeah but what I've noticed and what
but what I've noticed and what exemplifies the
exemplifies the lean uh community and we come to step 12
lean uh community and we come to step 12 connect with other lean
connect with other lean enthusiasts is
enthusiasts is this uh trait of just wanting to share
this uh trait of just wanting to share you I'm part of a number of lean
you I'm part of a number of lean WhatsApp groups that you've invited me
WhatsApp groups that you've invited me into and I actually can't keep up with
into and I actually can't keep up with the number of whatsapps that are in
the number of whatsapps that are in there CU people are so desirous of
there CU people are so desirous of wanting to share their improvements as
wanting to share their improvements as opposed to the typical let's say fixed
opposed to the typical let's say fixed mindset of ah ah I've got the magic
mindset of ah ah I've got the magic sauce I'm keeping it to myself so step
sauce I'm keeping it to myself so step 12 share with me the importance of kind
12 share with me the importance of kind of sharing the magic sauce with others
of sharing the magic sauce with others uh the others being lean Enthusiast
uh the others being lean Enthusiast being involved in this community yeah
being involved in this community yeah well I'm going to give you the credit
well I'm going to give you the credit for step 12 actually I don't know if I
for step 12 actually I don't know if I told you this before you
told you this before you haven't I remember on one of the uh on
haven't I remember on one of the uh on the skill X accelerator program at one
the skill X accelerator program at one of the events you said if you want to be
of the events you said if you want to be a runner join a running club if you want
a runner join a running club if you want to be a swimmer join a swimming club if
to be a swimmer join a swimming club if you want to get better at tennis join a
you want to get better at tennis join a tennis club and I actually said that in
tennis club and I actually said that in the book I don't know if you noticed
the book I don't know if you noticed that but um if you want to be really
that but um if you want to be really good at
good at lean connect with other lean enthusiasts
lean connect with other lean enthusiasts be around lean people and that's what
be around lean people and that's what I've done I've surrounded myself with
I've done I've surrounded myself with people from all over the world that are
people from all over the world that are really into this stuff they just want to
really into this stuff they just want to talk about Lan all the
talk about Lan all the time and that that's the people I want
time and that that's the people I want to be around that's the community I want
to be around that's the community I want to be around and the Community is
to be around and the Community is absolutely grown by the week like I'm
absolutely grown by the week like I'm not exaggerating in the last 6 months
not exaggerating in the last 6 months even the amount of companies that are
even the amount of companies that are coming here and tours the am of
coming here and tours the am of companies that have bought the book The
companies that have bought the book The am of companies that are visiting each
am of companies that are visiting each other that have been here the Lan is
other that have been here the Lan is becoming the next big thing and if
becoming the next big thing and if you're not doing lean you're being left
you're not doing lean you're being left behind that that's really candid and
behind that that's really candid and really direct but it's true people are
really direct but it's true people are are waking up to to the potential of
are waking up to to the potential of lean they're waking up to the results
lean they're waking up to the results that can be gotten and the
that can be gotten and the real fast track to get in there is to
real fast track to get in there is to connect with other people that are
connect with other people that are trying to do the same thing yeah most of
trying to do the same thing yeah most of our ideas most of our improvements come
our ideas most of our improvements come from videos we've played at our morning
from videos we've played at our morning meeting and then we Implement them here
meeting and then we Implement them here so we're all helping each other and
so we're all helping each other and that's the power of a community as as
that's the power of a community as as you all know yeah I love that and and
you all know yeah I love that and and who doesn't want to be around the the
who doesn't want to be around the the community that is that is lean you've
community that is that is lean you've kindly kind
kindly kind of uh suggested that that kind of you
of uh suggested that that kind of you borrowed this this certainly the the
borrowed this this certainly the the initiative for step 12 uh the
initiative for step 12 uh the inspiration for step 12 has been
inspiration for step 12 has been something that we have shed with with
something that we have shed with with you it's why I love doing what we do
you it's why I love doing what we do Ryan in in simple scaling because it's
Ryan in in simple scaling because it's loads of Ryan tiies and who doesn't want
loads of Ryan tiies and who doesn't want to be around lots of Ryan tiies people
to be around lots of Ryan tiies people who only see Solutions people who
who only see Solutions people who have um aspiration to bring more value
have um aspiration to bring more value to their teams to their customers people
to their teams to their customers people who have this growth mindset who are
who have this growth mindset who are abundant in their sharing who doesn't
abundant in their sharing who doesn't want to be around that um thank you for
want to be around that um thank you for that and and and I think you're being
that and and and I think you're being overly generous there with your credit
overly generous there with your credit but I'm a firm believer of that in in in
but I'm a firm believer of that in in in getting yourself into the right rooms H
getting yourself into the right rooms H being part of the right communities yeah
being part of the right communities yeah you've been part of the the simple
you've been part of the the simple scaling Community you were a graduate of
scaling Community you were a graduate of our scalea accelerator program now a
our scalea accelerator program now a member of our scale ax Club who or the
member of our scale ax Club who or the alumni of of those who have participated
alumni of of those who have participated in our year-long program what inspired
in our year-long program what inspired you to to come on board into our Scala
you to to come on board into our Scala accelerator program initially yeah it's
accelerator program initially yeah it's a interesting story actually um your
a interesting story actually um your yourself and Claire came on a tour
yourself and Claire came on a tour actually you came on a tour a lan tour
actually you came on a tour a lan tour and we got talking after the tour and I
and we got talking after the tour and I thought this is there's something about
thought this is there's something about this there's something special going on
this there's something special going on here because we had always been into
here because we had always been into this type of you know myself my two
this type of you know myself my two brothers studied a lot of the Bob
brothers studied a lot of the Bob Proctor material back years ago uh we
Proctor material back years ago uh we always would have been into uh
always would have been into uh motivational type uh thinking and been
motivational type uh thinking and been to loads of seminars and I remember
to loads of seminars and I remember talking to to to Jonathan and Martin
talking to to to Jonathan and Martin after we met after the tour and I said
after we met after the tour and I said you have to meet Brandon he's like a
you have to meet Brandon he's like a northern arish Bo Proctor
we we just really connected at the start and you told me about the program and at
and you told me about the program and at that
that point we've we have big plans to really
point we've we have big plans to really scale our business we're all very
scale our business we're all very motivated uh but it wasn't more
motivated uh but it wasn't more motivation we
motivation we needed and I think a lot of information
needed and I think a lot of information out there is motivational but what we
out there is motivational but what we liked about the the simple scaling
liked about the the simple scaling process was that it's a plan it's a
process was that it's a plan it's a process like what I've developed here
process like what I've developed here with with lean made simple and we love
with with lean made simple and we love the fact that you can start a one you
the fact that you can start a one you know we can and you can go to 10 and
know we can and you can go to 10 and there's 10 principles and you take them
there's 10 principles and you take them and they're all PS which is nice as well
and they're all PS which is nice as well you take them one by one and you go
you take them one by one and you go through the program and it's really slow
through the program and it's really slow and steady and consistent because it's
and steady and consistent because it's about a month isn't it for per per per
about a month isn't it for per per per uh per process per system but we
uh per process per system but we seen
seen um we seen a fre workk that we wanted to
um we seen a fre workk that we wanted to be part of and we seen uh something in
be part of and we seen uh something in yourself that we would like we like that
yourself that we would like we like that motivational positive mentality and
motivational positive mentality and somebody with an or Iris accent talking
somebody with an or Iris accent talking about it and uh we decided to get on
about it and uh we decided to get on board yeah I'm so delighted you did if
board yeah I'm so delighted you did if I'm the the Irish Bob Proctor clar then
I'm the the Irish Bob Proctor clar then that makes clear the the Irish Sandy
that makes clear the the Irish Sandy together so I'll share that with her
together so I'll share that with her what would you say Ryan
what would you say Ryan have been some of the the the greatest
have been some of the the the greatest benefits for you as a result of uh
benefits for you as a result of uh participating in the program well I
participating in the program well I would say a very clear one is that when
would say a very clear one is that when we joined the program we had one company
we joined the program we had one company Satan matters um now sitting here two or
Satan matters um now sitting here two or three years on we have acquired three
three years on we have acquired three companies and bolted them onto the side
companies and bolted them onto the side of our company so I have four companies
of our company so I have four companies um we wouldn't have done that if it
um we wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for the program we wouldn't have
wasn't for the program we wouldn't have been thinking like that um we always we
been thinking like that um we always we we had big plans and Big Dreams but the
we had big plans and Big Dreams but the framework was what what was what really
framework was what what was what really helped us and now we're four companies
helped us and now we're four companies in we're looking at two more uh Martin
in we're looking at two more uh Martin is almost full-time and acquisition mode
is almost full-time and acquisition mode that's that's his nce and something he's
that's that's his nce and something he's really good at myself and Jonathan are
really good at myself and Jonathan are supporting that in the background
supporting that in the background and I can probably say that we wouldn't
and I can probably say that we wouldn't be thinking like this if wasn't for the
be thinking like this if wasn't for the program that's I mean it's it's
program that's I mean it's it's wonderful to hear because you such an
wonderful to hear because you such an incredible product that back to what we
incredible product that back to what we said at the outset you know if you've
said at the outset you know if you've got a wonderful product or service which
got a wonderful product or service which you guys clearly do then you have an
you guys clearly do then you have an obligation to bring that to the world so
obligation to bring that to the world so it's suppos this music to my ears to
it's suppos this music to my ears to hear the fact that actually you're doing
hear the fact that actually you're doing that and you're doing that not only
that and you're doing that not only organically but through acquisition
organically but through acquisition entrepreneurship and uh I'm I'm
entrepreneurship and uh I'm I'm obviously delighted to hear that's part
obviously delighted to hear that's part of the reason you're doing that has been
of the reason you're doing that has been sparked as a result of your
sparked as a result of your participation in the program can you
participation in the program can you share with maybe with our listeners
share with maybe with our listeners because it was three brothers a family
because it was three brothers a family business um maybe how would you
business um maybe how would you characterize your relationship before
characterize your relationship before you went in the program versus your
you went in the program versus your relationship now maybe going to tell me
relationship now maybe going to tell me it's worse but uh can you share a little
it's worse but uh can you share a little bit of insight there in terms of the
bit of insight there in terms of the challenges maybe before versus what you
challenges maybe before versus what you experience now I think with any family
experience now I think with any family business there's always there's
business there's always there's challenges and terms terms of
challenges and terms terms of communication is probably the biggest
communication is probably the biggest one a lot of the meetings are around the
one a lot of the meetings are around the kitchen table and if somebody isn't
kitchen table and if somebody isn't around the kitchen table that day they
around the kitchen table that day they they they miss all the news uh there was
they they miss all the news uh there was less formality before the program there
less formality before the program there absolutely was It was kind of we we
absolutely was It was kind of we we would have had meetings whenever we were
would have had meetings whenever we were all together and if we weren't together
all together and if we weren't together we didn't go out of our way to to to
we didn't go out of our way to to to organize anything more formal so after
organize anything more formal so after going through the the program we have
going through the the program we have weekly meetings we have have uh monthly
weekly meetings we have have uh monthly management meetings there's definitely
management meetings there's definitely more structure uh we have more uh
more structure uh we have more uh defined roles which is important as well
defined roles which is important as well and we had all the ingredients of we
and we had all the ingredients of we kind of knew how we wanted to scale but
kind of knew how we wanted to scale but the program kind of brought it
the program kind of brought it all into one direction for us and really
all into one direction for us and really helped yeah um thank you uh and it's and
helped yeah um thank you uh and it's and it's BR again it's brilliant to hear
it's BR again it's brilliant to hear that some thing that you've alluded to
that some thing that you've alluded to is the the vision for seing matters and
is the the vision for seing matters and I know through the program you crafted
I know through the program you crafted your own incredibly inspiring Vivid
your own incredibly inspiring Vivid Vision you've got your 10year moonshot
Vision you've got your 10year moonshot you've got your your three-year Vivid
you've got your your three-year Vivid Vision part of that you know you you
Vision part of that you know you you communicated publicly the desire to to
communicated publicly the desire to to scale um through acquisition to reach
scale um through acquisition to reach more people to to have a greater impact
more people to to have a greater impact to widen your reach
can you share with me a little bit more about your passion for Lane and
bit more about your passion for Lane and your vision for Lane yeah it's something
your vision for Lane yeah it's something that also came from the program uh the
that also came from the program uh the simple scill and program is that Satan
simple scill and program is that Satan matters is obviously here it is the main
matters is obviously here it is the main business and kind of like the spin-off
business and kind of like the spin-off to the side is lean made simple and
to the side is lean made simple and without even wanting to lean Made Simple
without even wanting to lean Made Simple is growing and growing and growing it's
is growing and growing and growing it's getting it's it's it's getting bigger by
getting it's it's it's getting bigger by the week and what I talked about at the
the week and what I talked about at the very start is that you know scaling your
very start is that you know scaling your passion and Lan is absolutely my passion
passion and Lan is absolutely my passion and I think that's why it's scaling
and I think that's why it's scaling because I'm so passionate about it and I
because I'm so passionate about it and I have we have our Vivid vision for the
have we have our Vivid vision for the company but I also have a personal Vivid
company but I also have a personal Vivid vision and I shared this uh recently at
vision and I shared this uh recently at a talk I done in Northern Ireland and as
a talk I done in Northern Ireland and as a few people might know I've been to
a few people might know I've been to Japan five times every time I go to
Japan five times every time I go to Japan I learn uh Lane at a deeper level
Japan I learn uh Lane at a deeper level um I'm fortunate enough to be connected
um I'm fortunate enough to be connected with uh really high level people in
with uh really high level people in Japan who eat sleep and breathe the
Japan who eat sleep and breathe the stuff and every time I'm there I
stuff and every time I'm there I understand that at a deeper level and
understand that at a deeper level and the last time I was coming back just
the last time I was coming back just about two months ago I was on the plane
about two months ago I was on the plane on the way back and I was sitting
on the way back and I was sitting writing notes I like to write and I
writing notes I like to write and I wrote like 13 pages of notes on the way
wrote like 13 pages of notes on the way back on the plane and I came up with a
back on the plane and I came up with a title for a potential new book and I
title for a potential new book and I started playing about with the words and
started playing about with the words and I come up with this and as soon as I
I come up with this and as soon as I wrote it on a bit of paper I I I I felt
wrote it on a bit of paper I I I I felt that I felt like this emotional shock
that I felt like this emotional shock just hitting my body and the title of
just hitting my body and the title of the book that I wrote down was make
the book that I wrote down was make Ireland the next
Japan and as soon as I said that I thought that's it that's my
thought that's it that's my purpose because Japan is the ultimate
purpose because Japan is the ultimate Exemplar of efficiency of productivity
Exemplar of efficiency of productivity it's where this whole thing started with
it's where this whole thing started with Toyota um and the the Toyota production
Toyota um and the the Toyota production system and we were kind of the first in
system and we were kind of the first in the UK really to really Embrace this
the UK really to really Embrace this sing at a high level and since we
sing at a high level and since we started lean since I came across Lan on
started lean since I came across Lan on YouTube 10 years ago there is hundreds
YouTube 10 years ago there is hundreds of companies now doing Lan in the UK in
of companies now doing Lan in the UK in Ireland and
Ireland and I this this idea of making Ireland the
I this this idea of making Ireland the next Japan really resonated with me and
next Japan really resonated with me and I've shared this just two weeks ago and
I've shared this just two weeks ago and the amount of messages uh that I'm
the amount of messages uh that I'm getting in LinkedIn the amount of
getting in LinkedIn the amount of messages I'm getting you know on YouTube
messages I'm getting you know on YouTube about people really wanting to get
about people really wanting to get behind this and support me with it and
behind this and support me with it and you know reaching out to say how can I
you know reaching out to say how can I be part of this I love this vision and
be part of this I love this vision and it it's something that you have always
it it's something that you have always talked about you know you've always
talked about you know you've always taught us to put the vision out there
taught us to put the vision out there then you attract the people the
then you attract the people the resources you attract everything you
resources you attract everything you need uh to fulfill the vision and that's
need uh to fulfill the vision and that's absolutely happening there's people
absolutely happening there's people asking me to speak there's people
asking me to speak there's people wanting to do collaborations on YouTube
wanting to do collaborations on YouTube all these things are starting to happen
all these things are starting to happen now because I've put the vision out
now because I've put the vision out there to make Ireland the next Japan I
there to make Ireland the next Japan I absolutely love that I mean the hers are
absolutely love that I mean the hers are standing in the back of my neck as you
standing in the back of my neck as you say that we're absolutely aligned and
say that we're absolutely aligned and I'm 100% supportive of of that Vision I
I'm 100% supportive of of that Vision I mean our own Vision very similar is to
mean our own Vision very similar is to inspire connect and enable millions of
inspire connect and enable millions of ambitious leaders of smmes to scale with
ambitious leaders of smmes to scale with purpose embedded within that is a desire
purpose embedded within that is a desire to make this island what Silicon Valley
to make this island what Silicon Valley is to technology startups I would love
is to technology startups I would love this island to be synonymous with scal
this island to be synonymous with scal ups and you guys are absolute examplars
ups and you guys are absolute examplars of what this island can do and
of what this island can do and in in every corner of this business
in in every corner of this business right up to the the leadership and the
right up to the the leadership and the way you you guys
way you you guys lead
lead Ryan this has just been value packed
Ryan this has just been value packed there's
there's um there's so much that we can we can we
um there's so much that we can we can we can cut and repurpose from from from
can cut and repurpose from from from from the last St um there's so many
from the last St um there's so many takeaways but you know
takeaways but you know something we do as as a routine a ritual
something we do as as a routine a ritual of the podcast is invite Our Guest to
of the podcast is invite Our Guest to share with our audience three Timeless
share with our audience three Timeless takeaways yeah okay three Timeless
takeaways yeah okay three Timeless takeaways I think the first
takeaways I think the first one is really it's a big one and it's an
one is really it's a big one and it's an important one and it's something that
important one and it's something that everybody has heard before but I'm going
everybody has heard before but I'm going to go a bit deeper on it so my timel let
to go a bit deeper on it so my timel let take away is life is short reist the
take away is life is short reist the nonv
nonv value so we think of nonv value as in
value so we think of nonv value as in walking too many steps to go and get
walking too many steps to go and get something or having to Fumble to look
something or having to Fumble to look for your car keys in the morning that's
for your car keys in the morning that's that's nonv value or we've run out of a
that's nonv value or we've run out of a certain part and we can't manufacture
certain part and we can't manufacture the product all those things are nonv
the product all those things are nonv value but really if we take that up a
value but really if we take that up a level nonv value is anything that
level nonv value is anything that doesn't support your
doesn't support your goals so there might be somebody
goals so there might be somebody listening to this program listening to
listening to this program listening to this podcast that is working in a
this podcast that is working in a company that they're just not feeling it
company that they're just not feeling it they're not in the right place there
they're not in the right place there might be somebody that's in a
might be somebody that's in a relationship that isn't supporting them
relationship that isn't supporting them there might be somebody that has big
there might be somebody that has big goals and they're scared to take that
goals and they're scared to take that next
next step so life is short reist the nonv
step so life is short reist the nonv value is my first timel let take away
value is my first timel let take away reist the things out of your life that
reist the things out of your life that aren't supporting
aren't supporting you that might be a person that might be
you that might be a person that might be the position you're in at your company
the position you're in at your company that might be the information that
that might be the information that you're listening to maybe you're
you're listening to maybe you're listening to the news and listen to all
listening to the news and listen to all this negative stuff that isn't
this negative stuff that isn't supporting your goals try listening to a
supporting your goals try listening to a good podcast or you know change your
good podcast or you know change your your your what you look up in YouTube
your your what you look up in YouTube every time you go on to it so life is
every time you go on to it so life is short reist and on value is my first one
short reist and on value is my first one so profound
um second one is a quote that's in my book it's the last page of the last
book it's the last page of the last chapter in the book and the quote is the
chapter in the book and the quote is the biggest Gap in the world is the gap
biggest Gap in the world is the gap between knowing and
between knowing and doing and I've definitely said this on
doing and I've definitely said this on podcasts and videos before because I
podcasts and videos before because I love this quote So for anybody who's
love this quote So for anybody who's made it to the end of this podcast
made it to the end of this podcast you've spent the last or listening to
you've spent the last or listening to all this information it took us 10 years
all this information it took us 10 years to get this information and we're
to get this information and we're delivering it to you in one
delivering it to you in one hour but the biggest Gap in the world is
hour but the biggest Gap in the world is knowing this and doing something about
knowing this and doing something about it so I would encourage
it so I would encourage everybody to act more action less
everybody to act more action less talking Ryan I couldn't agree more with
talking Ryan I couldn't agree more with that a good friend of mine always shes
that a good friend of mine always shes that knowledge isn't power applied
that knowledge isn't power applied knowledge is power if it came down to
knowledge is power if it came down to knowledge alone we'd all be millionaires
knowledge alone we'd all be millionaires with six packs because all the
with six packs because all the information to become a millionaire and
information to become a millionaire and develop a six-pack is out there and
develop a six-pack is out there and you've just shared with me some photos
you've just shared with me some photos that suggest you just developed your
that suggest you just developed your six-pack because of applying knowledge
six-pack because of applying knowledge over the last 12 months so I love that
over the last 12 months so I love that the biggest Gap in the world is that gap
the biggest Gap in the world is that gap between knowing and doing and again the
between knowing and doing and again the appeal to listeners here is to take one
appeal to listeners here is to take one small action from this podcast don't
small action from this podcast don't just listen to it begin
just listen to it begin to um con consider ways of how you apply
to um con consider ways of how you apply it number three third Timeless takeaway
it number three third Timeless takeaway third Timeless
third Timeless takeaway okay so this one is be a sheep
takeaway okay so this one is be a sheep dog not a
dog not a bulldog right so I'm going to tell a
bulldog right so I'm going to tell a story just at the end with the story our
story just at the end with the story our grandfather was a sheep
grandfather was a sheep farmer so quite a small farm and in
farmer so quite a small farm and in rural Northern Ireland and Lov but our
rural Northern Ireland and Lov but our father always said if you want to create
father always said if you want to create change any kind of change if you want to
change any kind of change if you want to create change be a sheep dog not a
create change be a sheep dog not a bulldog so when our grandfather was
bulldog so when our grandfather was trying to round up the
trying to round up the Sheep the sheep dog would go into the
Sheep the sheep dog would go into the field gr really slowly kind of hid in
field gr really slowly kind of hid in the grass the Sheep didn't really know
the grass the Sheep didn't really know it was there but and slowly but surely
it was there but and slowly but surely all the Sheep were in the
all the Sheep were in the pan it was calm it was slow it was
pan it was calm it was slow it was steady and there was no disruptions no
steady and there was no disruptions no kles and the sheep dog got its desired
kles and the sheep dog got its desired outcome whereas if a bulldog went in the
outcome whereas if a bulldog went in the Sheep would be everywhere all over the
Sheep would be everywhere all over the field you couldn't get them rounded up
field you couldn't get them rounded up you would spend twice as long 10 times
you would spend twice as long 10 times as long trying to get the desired
as long trying to get the desired outcome so our father always
outcome so our father always said if you want to create change and
said if you want to create change and even to translate that into what we're
even to translate that into what we're talking about if you want if you want to
talking about if you want if you want to create change in an
create change in an organization be a sheep dog instead of a
organization be a sheep dog instead of a bulldog
bulldog go about your
go about your goals steadily consistently one small
goals steadily consistently one small step at a time kind of hide in the grass
step at a time kind of hide in the grass and you'll get your desired
and you'll get your desired outcome that's a mic drop right there
outcome that's a mic drop right there that is so so powerful I certainly have
that is so so powerful I certainly have been guilty of being that bulldog in the
been guilty of being that bulldog in the past um it's taken me almost five
past um it's taken me almost five decades to to waken up
decades to to waken up to becoming more uh certainly my int
to becoming more uh certainly my int ention is to become more of that cheap
ention is to become more of that cheap dog that's so so powerful
dog that's so so powerful Ryan you've shared your big Vision uh
Ryan you've shared your big Vision uh what what's next for you then you know
what what's next for you then you know in terms of realizing that
in terms of realizing that Vision yep so I've massive plans to
Vision yep so I've massive plans to spread the word of lean to more people
spread the word of lean to more people uh one of the things that I'm absolutely
uh one of the things that I'm absolutely focused on is being the example area
focused on is being the example area making our company the example of how
making our company the example of how that's of how that that's possible and
that's of how that that's possible and what's
what's achievable
achievable um one of the things we're doing to get
um one of the things we're doing to get the the the vision out there is YouTube
the the the vision out there is YouTube I'm going all in on YouTube at the
I'm going all in on YouTube at the minute I've spent the last year um so we
minute I've spent the last year um so we don't have all these platforms where we
don't have all these platforms where we put out information I'm just going deep
put out information I'm just going deep on YouTube so with have thousands of sub
on YouTube so with have thousands of sub of subscribers in YouTube it's growing
of subscribers in YouTube it's growing by the day uh the book is now available
by the day uh the book is now available as well which is spreading the message
as well which is spreading the message so I'll probably write another book of
so I'll probably write another book of another in mind that I'll start working
another in mind that I'll start working on over the next year and I'll continue
on over the next year and I'll continue to do the lean Made Simple podcast and
to do the lean Made Simple podcast and the YouTube videos and uh put all the
the YouTube videos and uh put all the information out there to help and
information out there to help and Inspire more people a it's amazing yeah
Inspire more people a it's amazing yeah Ryan you've mentioned your YouTube
Ryan you've mentioned your YouTube channel uh we've talked about your book
channel uh we've talked about your book today please go out and get a copy of
today please go out and get a copy of Ryan's book uh how best to connect with
Ryan's book uh how best to connect with you if people want to learn more more
you if people want to learn more more beyond the book and the YouTube channel
beyond the book and the YouTube channel is there anywhere else you would send
is there anywhere else you would send them to yep just YouTube and Linkedin
them to yep just YouTube and Linkedin just to keep it really simple those
just to keep it really simple those those two places but it's lovely to end
those two places but it's lovely to end on that simple message again Ryan I want
on that simple message again Ryan I want to sincerely thank you my life is Holy
to sincerely thank you my life is Holy better and has been enriched I don't say
better and has been enriched I don't say that lightly because I can now call
that lightly because I can now call myself a friend of of yourself uh
myself a friend of of yourself uh Jonathan Martin your mother Martina we
Jonathan Martin your mother Martina we haven't mentioned today just an
haven't mentioned today just an incredible lady I know you you speak
incredible lady I know you you speak fondly of your late father uh who has
fondly of your late father uh who has hugely influenced you guys and that's
hugely influenced you guys and that's another podcast in its own right in
another podcast in its own right in terms of the the environment that he
terms of the the environment that he created I want to thank you today for
created I want to thank you today for sharing um your your incredible wisdom
sharing um your your incredible wisdom your experience and practical tactics
your experience and practical tactics and and insights in terms of beginning
and and insights in terms of beginning this lean Journey um it's been an
this lean Journey um it's been an absolute pleasure and privilege to host
absolute pleasure and privilege to host you skac and S been waiting for this for
you skac and S been waiting for this for a long time to we got this book written
a long time to we got this book written so I'm delighted I wish you
so I'm delighted I wish you every success I'm 100% behind you in
every success I'm 100% behind you in terms of your your vision um take care
terms of your your vision um take care thank you very
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