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Flying Through Limits: A Story of Grit, Growth, and Guts

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Hello friends, welcome to another

episode of Date with Destiny with

Captain Benham. I have an exciting guest

today. She's a female pilot and uh captain

captain [Music]

[Music] [Applause]

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] [Applause]

Um, she has flown a a boring 737, Boeing

757, 767, and 77 for United Airlines.

She also flew the Boeing 747 as a flight

engineer. And she uh ended up captaining

uh Airbus. We're going to talk about

that. Airbus, the good old Fifi flying

machine. Um, Lora graduated from uh uh

Purdue University and uh she started

flying in 1982. So, she's been around

for a long time. And on today's podcast,

I wanted to get her perspective of being

a female pilot and making it to the

ranks of captain with United Airlines.

So, having said that, I'd like to

welcome Captain Laura

Savino. Nice to have you. Thank you.

Thanks for inviting me. So, it's good.

It's going to be fun. Yeah, I've heard a

lot about you. We haven't met yet, but

you know, we connected on LinkedIn and

uh I then I saw that uh you have written

a book, Jet Boss. We're going to talk

about that in a few minutes and also

that you go around and do speeches which

is uh that's something that is really

really I'm passionate about. And of course

course

um I want to introduce you to the

community aviation community in a

different way that you have been in

introduced or exposed and uh because in

in this show I want to get your um get

the lessons you've learned in life and

the challenges you've had in life to

overcome to make it as a female pilot

and hopefully that would be very very

inspiring to all young women around the

world who are planning or wanting to

become a pilot but somehow they never

had the opportunity. So from the teenage

years you had a dream to fly the queen

of the sky which was a 747 just like

myself. Your journey is really really really

really

inspiring. When did you first started

and what did you ever imagine that your

career would take you so far uh to this

point? Oh gosh. Um, I I really didn't

have a dream to go, you know, to to go

to the airlines at all when I was

growing up because there were no female

pilots and um I really I had never seen

an airplane. I'd never met a pilot. I

never met anyone who ever met a pilot.

So, it wasn't anything that was on my

purview at all. And this was back in the

day before the internet, you know, was

invented. So, you only knew what was

actually in your life, right? maybe what

your father, you know, did or your mom

if you were lucky enough to have a mom

that worked outside of the home and

maybe what a teacher told you. So, yeah,

it was it was just something that I I

happened to kind of discover as a

teenager out exploring in my mom's old

station wagon. I found a GA airport. Had

never seen an airplane in my life, like

up close and I was just I was fascinated

by it. So, that's um that's how I got

started. And then, you know, again, I I

didn't fly because I wanted a career in

flying because I didn't think that was

something possible. It wasn't anything

that I even thought about. I just wanted

to get in an airplane and, you know, get

in an airplane again and, you know, one

thing leads to the next and you just

keep moving forward and moving forward

and then you end up someplace in your

life, you're like, "Wow, I don't know

how to get here." So, so a little girl

from New Jersey, you know, a middle

child and but a family who was like

average income family. What was the

turning point do you believe that made

all of this possible?

The turning point? Gosh. Um, oh, I don't

know if there was like any specific

turning point. I think I think what

happened was I I started I I I went up

for 20 bucks for a Discovery Flight and

I was I mean I was it was hypnotic for

me. This was like 1982 or earlier than

that 1982. Yeah, actually right the very

beginning of of 82 and in the winter and

um I just wanted to go up again and I

ended up getting a job at the airport at

a flight school and I just basically

worked for free and worked my way

through lessons and all I like my end

all be all goal was to earn enough money

to like get to go up one more time and

then work long enough to get to go up

one more time. And I probably the

turning point was when I I got into

Purdue and I I was actually an art major

and I ended up transferring in kind of

behind my parents back. Love you mom and

dad. Into the flight program. And once I

got in there and I realized I I could do

this and I was surrounded by other

people in aviation, I think that's when

it became a little bit more of a reality

that this really is my community and and

I can I can be a part of this. And I I

just don't think I really realized it

even even then when I graduated from

college come to think of it I still was

thinking like corporate pilot or

something like that because I don't

think I understood yet that women could

be actual airline pilots but I I knew I

could do something professionally at

least I thought I could. So that was

probably I think the deregulation

happened like 7879

the dere like deregs. Yeah. And then you

know then the women started kind of

entering u maybe it was a couple of

years earlier I can't remember but and

the women started kind of coming into it

was a totally a man's world. Yeah. And

here you are trying to break that

barrier you know and uh enter

that how where did people the naysayers

say no you're not good enough you can't

do it or something like that. Yeah, I

mean I I felt that way and and you know

even though there women did start, you

know, start to metriculate into aviation

a little bit. Um probably like the late

70s. Uh but again there was no internet

so I didn't know that. Nobody that I

knew knew that. Um nobody had ever seen

or heard of a female pilot. So it wasn't

anything that I was aware of. It wasn't.

In fact, um I had tried going into the

military uh and when I was in college

and all the recruiters were like, "Well,

women can't fly in the military, so you

could do a support role, but you can't

go in there and be a pilot." That turns

out wasn't exactly true. But as far as

the, you know, news had not gotten out

to the recruiters that I spoke to that

women actually were starting to do all

these things. I think the opportunity

was very small still. So, um, yeah. So,

although things were starting to change

until I literally was that change

myself, I was unaware of it. I I didn't

like the pack. You didn't even know it.

I didn't know. Yeah. I didn't like I I I

like those doors were just starting to

open as I reached the age where I could,

you know, and the qualifications where I

could walk through them. But I didn't

know that there were other women ahead

of me that had walked through them. It

was just all all new and shiny, you

know. So, uh, I don't know. I was I was

pretty clueless really as I think about

it in hindsight, but that probably

probably helped me because I wasn't

jaded at all, you know. I was just like,

"Okay, this is great." Whatever. So,

you're getting an art degree at Purdue,

you finished college. Did you have your

private license by then or then you

started going after it? Um, no. So, I I

got my private license in high school.

Okay. Okay. And then I went to Purdue

and I transferred to the flight program

second semester freshman year and then

every semester we accomplished

something. So I when I graduated I had

my um CFI and then right after

graduation I think I then got my my

double eye and then I got to work you

know but I had already been working I

think for two years as a flight

instructor. I started flight instructing

my sophomore year in college. What kind

of airplane? Um well initially I was

flight instructing just single engine

like anybody you know Cessna Piper. We

had a a oh gosh, we had a

a I can't even remember. We We had a

couple unusual airplanes. We had like a

Mooney and we had uh Bonanza and you

know a Trinidad and a Tobago which was

like all the rage for a short period of

time. You know all that. I I never got

my multi uh multi. So just basically

whatever whatever single engine prop

there was out there, I was like I got

it. I can do this. Yeah. Well, very

cool. Very cool. Well, you've flown with

some legendary airlines such as Eastern

Airlines, Panama, and obviously United.

Um, and now your uniform is a

Smithsonia. I mean, how cool is that

looking back? What does that mean to

you? Two uniforms. Isn't that funny? Two

of my uniforms. That guy kind of cracks

me up actually. Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, uh, yeah. Actually, you want you

want to hear a funny story about the

Smithsonian? I uh how did that come

about? How did that come? Well, it it it

came about actually through the book.

So, I wrote the book and then that um

you know that brought some recognition

and then um uh actually a curator from

the Smithsonian had contacted me and

he's like you know you flew for I flew

for the regionals Eastern and Panama the

regionals although Panam was fully owned

by Pan-American Rural Airway so I was on

their seniority list. Yeah. Um but uh

just you know just word got out that uh

I had these uniforms and the curator

asked me any chance you still have them?

And I'm like as a matter of fact I think

I have all that stuff hanging in a

closet somewhere and and I did and they

actually asked me for a lot more stuff.

They wanted I have all like the Eastern

Airlines strike, you know, all the

teletypes. I I have like a whole bunch

of stuff from history and I I gave up

some of it. But I did give them my

uniforms, but a lot of it I still have

in boxes upstairs. And that was your

maternity, right? No, that's something

different actually. So my maternity

uniform has been acquired by um the

uh the Atlanta

Historical Aviation Museum, I think is

their title. Okay. But they they

actually are in a contract with Atlanta

Heartsfield and they are building a new

exhibit called um let's see uh Blue

Skies Breaking Barriers and uh they I

actually did a podcast with an Eastern

Airlines and somebody saw me in the

podcast and then someone from the museum

contacted me. I'm telling you this is

like one thing just leads to the next

and they're like any chance you have a

maternity uniform um you know because it

would be like one of the original ones

and I'm like as a matter of fact let me

check my closet and I did all my

maternity stuff. So, they acquired that.

They sessioned that for me. And now my

This is actually kind of funny. Um they

they they had me to go down there to

measure me cuz they're building a

mannequin of apparently I haven't seen

it yet. Building a mannequin of pregnant

me to go on permanent the one do you see

in the wax museum?

You know, I don't know. Maybe. I'm not

sure. Made out of. But they they did a

whole They took all my measurements and

did all that. And um they said it's

going to go on permanent display at

Atlanta Hartzfield. And I'm like, what's

your definition of permanent display?

They're like, well, it's a base of 25

years, but it's going to be more than 25

years, but that's the minimum. I'll be

dead in 25 years, so that's I'm like,

that's a that's lifetime for me. So So

that's it. They're they're going to have

a big unveiling of it apparently soon.

Uh, they haven't yet, but I'm a little

bit hesitant

to to see how pregnant they made me in

this, but I guess I guess we'll find

out, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, how far

to your pregnancy were you still

actively sitting in the cockpit and

flying? Actually, pretty far through my

through my pregnancies. Pretty far. Um,

you know, right up until I didn't have

full travel. No. Um, let me think how

far along. I mean, I was in my last, you

know, my last trimester. So, I I can't

remember how many weeks I was, but um I,

you know, I I didn't have we didn't have

maternity leave. So, you you worked if

you um you got paid if you worked, so I

I had to work. Oh, yeah. There was no

maternity leave then, right? No. No,

there wasn't. No. So, well, this should

be really inspiring to ladies that, you

know, not only they can see you as a

female pilot and captain flying a major

airline around the world. Uh on top of

that, hey, don't let your you getting

married or having kids get in the way

because now you can go work in the

cockpit, you know, still fly, still take

off and land and when the time comes

that you make a decision that you want

to go home and stay and have your baby,

you can do that and get maternity leave,

too, right? Yeah. Yeah. And and it's

it's really true. You know, I get I get

asked probably the number one question I

get asked by like young young girls and

young women is, well, how can you be a

pilot and then be a mother? Like, won't

that be, you know, um won't that be a

challenge? Or, you know, won't you be

compromising, you know, uh being a mom

if you're if you're still like working?

And the answer is um yeah, of course,

it's a compromise. And yes, of course,

it's a challenge. But if you give up all

your dreams and your aspirations and

everything you worked for to stay home

full-time, you know, that's obviously a

big compromise and and a big challenge

itself. So, you know, you you don't have

to give up everything that you've worked

for to still be a really good mom and to

have fantastic kids and to do

everything, you know, in your personal

life that you've always wanted to do

just because you became a parent. You

don't have to give all of that up. And

um you know that's that's something that

uh I think it's hard to understand but

you your kids need you for about 12 or

13 years then they're like see you later

and you live your life you know another

hopefully 80 years outside of that. So

live your life and it it all works out.

It all works out. Talking about goals

and aspirations you know I I have made a

decision that I want to live to be 102

years old. Only 102. That's it. 102.

Don't ask me why. I wrote it down

somewhere, you know, 30 years ago. I

want to be 102 years old. And, you know,

I just always visualize myself sitting

on this rocking chair by a log home, you

know, going back and forth and looking

back at my life say, "Yep, did this.

Yep, I did that. Yep, I did this." I

just I mean, I keep setting new goals

and I keep looking, you know, what is

life? Unless you kind of stick your head

around the corner and see what's out

there. Yes. Yes. You know, if you don't

have dreams of aspirations, some people

say, "Well, I don't have it." But I

said, "Can you visualize it?" No, I

can't visualize. I said, "Look, look at

me. You see my necklace? You see my

shirt? You see the necklace?" Yes. Yeah.

Close your eyes and see if you can see

the necklace and the color of the shirt.

Yes, I can. Well, you can visualize. You

can visualize. You just have to train

that muscle. Visualize and uh have this

u man, you know, manifest, have goals,

have intentions, whatever you want to

call it. Yeah. something that excites

you. Put it out in front of you and keep

going after it. Yeah. Because there's

nothing more enjoyable. Yeah. Yeah. And

and and that's that's such a good point.

And and every day, too, you know, I I

think, you know, a lot of people think

they have to have this like long-term

end all beall goal. And which is great.

You know, I mean, I wouldn't discourage

that, but you have to have a reason

every single day just to say like today

I'm getting out of bed because I'm going

to I'm going to do this. And then at the

end of the day, just feel, you know,

like celebrate whatever whatever that

was. That's how you really move forward.

That's how you make progress. It's

living every single day and feeling good

about something, even if it's just

something small that you did that day.

Yeah. And not only celebrate, Laura. And

not only celebrate, but reward yourself

for whatever it is, whether it's a good

meal or a vacation or buy a toy or

whatever. Make sure that you reward

yourself. That's right. soak in, you

know, right now like I think a big uh

it's very, you know, in vogue or

whatever. Um to like celebrate your

failures. I if you're a pilot, do you

really want to celebrate your failures?

I don't know. I I think that it's good

to definitely recognize things you've

done wrong so you can learn from them,

but you need to celebrate like really

soak in and just sit in everything you

did right. You know, at the end of the

day, say, "Oh, I I got that right." and

really give yourself credit for the

things that you got right and for what

you know the positive things that you've

brought into your life and let that

become a part of you know more so than

the things that maybe you know you wish

you could do differently. Yeah. So well

you've flown small uh airplanes you've

flown charter and you've flown massive

Boeing 747 and captain the Airbus

A320. What was the most challenging

transition? You know, if if you were

coaching somebody, going through

training and stuff like that, what was

your most challenging transition in your

career? The most challenging? Well, I

could get into going from Boeing to

Airbus. We we get right into that. You

know, I can't believe you did that. Go

from a real airplane to 50 flying

machines. Come on.

All right. Like that one, huh? So, I'm

not gonna play into

that. I'm not gonna bite. I'm not gonna

bite. Um, well, you know what we say,

right? You know what we say? If I

bowing, I'm not going. So, until you go

to Airbus and you're like, that's that

one is so bad. Um, I bet you love that

tray, right? That train.

You just you just want to go there. See,

not everyone can say they flowing and Airbus.

Airbus.

That's true. But let me let me just let

me scroll back just to when the probably

the biggest decision I had to make as

far as like training and picking

aircraft. When I was hired at United, I

was already um had an unrestricted, you

know, uh flight engineer certificate in

the 727 and I I knew that 27 like the

back of my hand. I got hired by United

and everybody was going flight engineer.

This is back when all new hires went to

the FEC, right? Oh yeah, I remember.

Yeah, me myself too. I just got hired as

a captain on a shorts uh commuter

airliner and when I came to United I was

sitting in backseat as flight engineer

for two years. Yeah. And we we all were

right. Yeah. And so when I went to

United they had almost all 727 FE seats

and I was like well that would be okay

cuz you your first year you're on

probation and you know all that stuff.

And then they had an opening for a 747

flight engineer seat at a JFK. And I'm

like, "Huh, I couldn't I've never seen a

747. I've never seen one up close. I've

never even ridden as a passenger a 747."

And this was they call they didn't call

it the queen then. They called it the

whale. And yes. And that was a rope

start, right? Tell people what the rope

start is.

The rope start. Um, back then everything

was uh before computers were invented

and before there was anything uh you

know um any magenta lines everything was

around dial and a gauge and a swinging

needle. And at United we had at the time

that I was hired 100s 200s and SPS which

was the special performance and the

flight engineer is a person who just ran

all the systems. We just memorized, oh

my gosh, like hundreds and hundreds of

numbers, all the parameters, you know,

minimums, maximums, you know, all the

red lines, yellow lines, I mean,

everything. We were the auto throttles,

you know, on takeoff, we, you know, set

the uh set the thrust and, uh, the

entire flight, we adjusted it, um,

balanced the fuel, we did everything.

The flight engineer, a lot of companies

had PFS, professional flight engineers

that were just, you know, technicians,

and they weren't pilots. They just knew

the systems and took care of the

systems. But yeah, like the TWWA and

Panam initially just had PS, right? And

that was their profession. At United

though, they made it into a seniority

thing where the junior guy would sit

sideways. So you had to learn that whole

skill. So any case, bring valuable

valuable seat though because you sat

back there and you observed the captain

and the co-pilot. I mean, I learned so

much. Just like you, I flew the 727 as a

FE and then a 747

uh as a FE. Yeah. Which again, I just

say to everybody that my dream became

full circle because even though I wasn't

flying the right seat initially on a

747400, but as soon as I got in the

cockpit of a 747, the rope start. Yeah.

With the round gauges and I'm like, I

have arrived. I wear United Pilot

uniform. I'm sitting in the cockpit of

this jet flying from San Francisco to

Honolulu and back. Life was good. But

back then they they'd let the flight

engineers sit up front like like you

can't get away with anything like that

now, but like even as an FE, you know, I

I I not that I ever actually got to fly.

I didn't hear that. What? What's that?

Never mind. No, but it was it was really

cool. You know, they we could do

anything we wanted back then. At least

the these guys did. But any case, so

probably the biggest the biggest upgrade

decision or challenge was should I go to

the 47 on probation in New York? And not

only not only was it just an airplane I

didn't know and I already knew the 27,

but the pilots I was flying with were

very very senior, very old school. Um

they had never flown with a female pilot

in their lives. And um there was a lot

of challenges where the 27 was the very

junior, you know, captains, very junior

first officers and it would have been

just a much friendlier environment and a

lot easier and I knew the airplane, but

I'm like, nah, you know what? I I might

never get a chance to do this again. I

don't know how long this window is going

to be open. I just kind of felt like

like I was handed this like the 747, you

know, was in my new hire class, so I'm

like, I'm going to take it. And

everybody thought I was crazy. They're

like, why would you do that? You're on

probation. and they're going to eat you

alive. And I'm like, "No, remember those

days, first year of probation, keep your

nose clean and don't do anything wrong."

Oh, yeah. I don't say anything. You

don't want to get fired and this your

hands and up. Yeah. Yeah. Were you

commuting to JFK at that time? What's

that? Were you commuting to JFK or was

it just a short drive for you? No, I

actually uh lived in Queens. So I I and

I so I I lived in Queens because I was

flying for I was flying at a JFK with

Panama when I when I got hired by

United. So which is actually kind of

funny because So was your home was in

Queens or was it that commuter path? No,

I actually had a house in Queens.

I lived I lived off of uh off of

uh I lived in Queens too.

What? Man, met Metropolitan Metropolitan

Avenue. Yeah, that would be Forest

Hills. Yeah, Forest Hills. Yeah, Forest

Hills area. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I you

know, when uh after 911 when United

closed Miami

uh I had ended up commuting to uh JFK

and uh before they closed JFK and so I

had an apartment in in Queens. I love

that area. That's neat. Yeah. So, you

actually lived there and that's Oh, that

was a short short commute for you. Yeah,

I lived in I lived in Forest Hills and

then I moved and I lived in Richmond

Hill. Uh and then and I was flying out

of JFK, but I was also flying out of New

York. So, uh in the 47 technically I was

also based in LaGuardia, but obviously

we didn't service LaGuardia and the 47.

But, uh Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it was great.

Started. Well, it seems like you also

did re repossess aircraft or you were

with the company that repossessed

aircraft. Sounds like something coming

out of a movie. going back to my time

building my time building days. But um

yes, I was an aircraft repossessor, but

I will let you in on a secret. It's not

nearly as exciting as it sounds. Oh,

really? Okay. It's not So, it's first of

all, you're not stealing anything

because the bank is taking repossession

of the aircraft that they now own. And

um with that comes the keys to the

aircraft. So, I basically worked for a

company and they had contracts with the

banks and they would um just, you know,

give my my boss who would give me like

the, you know, the envelope of the

information, the aircraft where it was

located, the tail number, and you'd get

the keys and I would just somebody would

usually fly me there and drop me off.

Sometimes I would fly somebody there and

drop them off. Somebody would take turns

would take the airplane and then fly it

wherever the the bank wanted you to

deliver it to. But, it wasn't it wasn't

that exciting. Was there any wild stuff

that was it crazy wild stuff you had to

do or the aircraft order or somebody

would chase you guys? It wasn't really

like that. It was kind of, you know, not

that it was boring. It was just fairing.

Basically, you're fairing airplanes and

um nobody chased me. I mean, people that

default on airplanes are usually like

doctors or, you know, people that are

somehow had enough money for an airplane

but didn't have enough money to keep the

airplane. There was nobody, no truckers

that were like chasing me or anything

like that. Okay. And and and And nobody.

It's interesting too because you know I

would go into these air airports and I

was quite young at the time. And how old

were you then? I was oh gosh, let me

think. 19 20 21, you know, that that

that arrange there. And um

yeah, you know, I' I'd go in and people

would chat me up and nobody thought

twice. I just look like a teenager or

something and I had the perfect

disguise, you know, like no one

suspected me of anything. So, nobody

ever bothered me. They they

little girl, you know, they'd be like

all nice and everything. I'd get

something out of the candy machine and

I'd walk out to the ramp and just

casually walk around looking at tail

numbers trying to find the airplane I'm

looking for and then oh, here we go. I'd

do a really thorough pre-flight and

check and you're they're supposed to

leave because they know their plane's

being repossessed. It's not a secret.

They were supposed to leave the logs

and, you know, all the records in the

airplane. So, I would check and see if

the paperwork was there or not.

Sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't.

And then, you know, I would just fly it

fly it back wherever I was supposed to

bring it. It was kind of anticlimatic.

Sorry, not that exciting. Okay. Okay.

But, you know. Yeah. Well, we briefly

briefly talked about your maternity

uniform being Atlanta on display. Um,

you know, a lot of women that want to

get into aviation when I start talking

to them said, "Well, but I really want

to be a mom. I really want to be a, you

know, wife." And how did you manage

that? How did you manage a career

airline business and a motherhood?

You know, I will say it is really hard.

It's not it's not an easy walk. It's a

big decision to make. Um, ideally you

marry the dream guy who wants to share

the responsibility with you and you know

you take turns and and you can go to

work with you know peace of heart and

peace of mind and you know all wishy you

know unicorns and puppy dog tales and

everything that everything's wonderful.

Um but you know the truth is it's it's

hard. It's really hard because you don't

want to be separated from your children

and not everybody is blessed with, you

know, the perfect spouse. Even if it's a

great guy, maybe they're not good at

staying home and taking care of babies.

You know, they could be the best husband

in the world, but maybe that's not their

skill set. So, um, but but I'm not

sounding very positive, am I? But the

bottom line is you absolutely can make

it work and don't be discouraged because

it's not going to be easy. But I ended

up finding I had a number of nannies

like over, you know, over different

years. And um kind of settled in. We had

an older woman, not that old in

hindsight. I'm probably like the age

that I am now, but she had three grown

daughters and um she was wonderful. She

was like a grand grandma to my kids and

she loved them. Like she just ate them

up like they were her her grandb babies.

And you know, I we were she was really

comfortable in my home. And so I I

figured out that you have to find

somebody who loves your kids. You cannot

leave your children with someone that's

just like paid help because you just

will be tormented the whole time you're

gone. You have to feel like when I'm

gone, somebody is loving my children.

And if you can find that, and you can um

I I literally found this nanny through

an ad in the newspaper that I ran in the

newspaper. Um, when you find that, you

know, you can then continue to live your

life. And uh Oh, my battery. Hold on.

I'm so sorry. My battery. Let me just

plug this in. Oh, it's all right. It's

all right. It happens. Yeah. Well, I

fully charged it right before we

started, so I don't know why that is.

All right. Okay. Is that better? Oh,

perfect. Um, was your husband in

aviation or what? Did he have a

different kind of career? Yes and no.

and I make it a policy I do not talk

about my ex-husband. That's like just my

private business and I just don't ever

go there. Okay. Sorry. No, that that

sounds good. That sounds good. Yeah.

He's he's not he's not been in my life

for decades and um it's just it's my

past and I you know it's just not not

part of my picture anymore. So Okay.

Okay. Um you're very passionate about uh

mentoring young pilots. Mhm. And what do

you think is the biggest obstacle for

women in aviation today? What what what

do you think it what is it? Gosh, the

biggest obstacle I think

um well I mean obviously the current

political climate is very emotionally

charging and you know as a pilot you

should just concentrate on being a pilot

and learning those skills. Um I I think

probably the biggest challenge outside

of that is

just seeing themselves as pilots, you

know, the whole like see it to be it. Um

it's I think even aside from being a

female, I think if you are not born into

some sort of a heritage like an aviation

heritage, it's very hard to picture

yourself in the cockpit, you know, of a,

you know, a 767, a trip 7 if you've

never seen um one before. if you've

never met a pilot, if you don't have

that as like like a norm in your life,

it's very hard to see yourself in that

position, no matter who you are. So, I

think that um probably the biggest

challenge to aviation, the biggest

challenge is getting people into

aviation who otherwise didn't grow up

picturing themselves in aviation, you

know, and as far as like women go, I

mean, half the talent in this country is

female, right? So, but only about 5% of

pilots are female. So, we're somehow

missing the boat here. You know, we need

to open up the um the hiring pool and

access and opportunity. And uh you know,

that's I think the greatest increase in

safety to aviation is opening up the

doors to everybody who has the ability

to do it. And uh the only way you're

going to do that is to to get out there

and just educate and let people see that

this is an actual real occupation that

you can do. And and not just being a

pilot, which of course is the best part

of aviation, but being a mechanic, being

a dispatcher, being a controller, um you

know, there's a lot of really amazing

careers in aviation. And if you don't

have some sort of personal background

where you grew up or you've got a parent

or someone who has exposed you to it,

generally speaking, you don't know about

it. So um you know I think I think have

you um coached or talked to few people

that women in general that have actually

taken your advice now they are pilots.

Yes. A lot. I know you're really big in

women in aviation and yeah, it's a great

organization. All these organizations

did not exist when I was when I was

younger and I feel so um just privileged

and just still like excited that I can

now be in the other side. You know, I I

I never had the chance to be like a a

mentee because they didn't, you know,

that term didn't exist that I know of

back then. But now I get to, you know,

help the next generation. And honestly,

there's just like nothing cooler than

that. Um, nothing more exciting than me.

And I've had uh many young women come up

to me like I I uh like I speak at Purdue

University, my alma mater. I do

different speaking engagements. And I

mean, I have um probably every time I've

spoken, I've had one, two, or even more

young girls come up to me and say, "I

never had any idea I could be a pilot."

and then I saw your book or I saw you on

YouTube or I saw something about you and

it's like it's like they just didn't

know and you know and it's like I think

word has gotten out that girls can do

anything. I don't think that's a secret.

I don't think the younger generation,

you know, doubts themselves in that way,

but I think that they just don't see

themselves as pilots because they just

have never seen that. It hasn't hasn't

crossed their, you know, hasn't crossed

their their their um plate yet for them

to uh to to, you know, look into it and

see if it's something for them or not.

you know, as you know, I come from a

different country and, you know, just

being a natural US citizen, um, and

making it to be a pilot, it means a lot

to a lot of men around the world because

they want to do that, but the countries

they live in doesn't have the

opportunities. And you know, here we

live in the land of opportunity in the

beautiful good old United States of

America. And uh there are so many people

out there in different countries that

would never ever have an opportunity

like you had or I had to even make it as

an airline pilot. Doesn't matter if

you're male or female, right? So I

always tell the kids here, our younger

generation that, you know, be very very

appreciative where you live, you know,

the fact that you can go buy yourself an

iPhone or get your own apartment or go

buy, you know, get a job and get a car.

I mean, I know PhDs in other countries,

doctorates that they live

even lower than the lowest income class

in this country. Yes. Simply because the

opportunities are not there. But here we

have all the opportunities.

You know, and some people do not take

advantage of it. Um a question um just

popped in my head. Um do you think it's

challenging for women like become a

professional airline pilots? They're

flying this massive uh jumbo jets around

the world. Isn't you think it's

challenge for them to date because the

guys might get intimidated the guys

might get intimidated by by women to

like I was not I did not see that

question coming. Um is it is it

challenging for them to date? You know

it's challenging for anybody. No like

let's say you go on a date or you're in

in a group and they look at you and hey

what do you do for a living? you know,

the guy trying to show off talking about

his big truck or, you know, uh something

and or where he works and then they ask

you, "What do you do for a living?" And

you say, "Well, I'll play trip 7." Yeah.

I I actually never told anybody. So, I

when if somebody went out, no, I never

came up. And if someone said, "Oh, what

do you do for a living?" Which is a

common question. I would just I work for

airlines and they would just assume I

was a flood attendant and I would just

let them assume I was a flood attendant

and I just having nothing to do with

dating. I just never I just never

brought it up. Um, and I, you know, I

don't even really know. But at some

point it comes up what you do for a

living, right? Yes. But you'd be

surprised how many people don't believe

you or

why is that? They just I mean, they just

think you're like you're they just don't

believe it. Or if they believe that you

are a pilot, they think, right, but like

you're not actually the the pilot. Like

you're like the assistant to the pilot.

I mean, that's just the that's just the

presumption. It's always been the

presumption. And I kind of just like

went with it. But um Oh, that's funny.

Yeah. You know, I I don't think I mean,

even like even like my own dad, I love

my dad. Love you, Dad. Um like I mean he

asked me years ago, but like well well

into my career I'm like a captain. He's

like, "Have you ever touched anything,

honey, in the airplane?" And I'm like,

"Uh yeah, Dad, I fly the airplane." He's

like, "Right, but the pilot is the one

that's really flying the airplane,

right, dear?" I'm like I'm like well dad

I know I actually fly the airplane and I

I don't I don't think people take it

that seriously honestly maybe they do

now but when I was younger and I looked

very young um I don't think anybody took

it that seriously honestly that wasn't my

experience interesting

you know um just rationalize around

flying the seven when I was flying the

747 you know you I'm younger about 28 29

years old. I go to a party and something

like that. People gravitate towards

someone, you know, the doctor. Everybody

in the man men's world. All the p

doctors or the lawyers or the

businessmen that I've always met when

they find out you're a pilot, you know,

forget Captain Benam saving 381 lives.

It's different story now. But what?

Yeah. I said, well, just forget that

that little detail. I'm listening to you.

you.

So they when you they find out you you

you you're a pilot or you know you fly

jets or jumbo jets to get the gravitate

towards you. They want to learn more. So

initially I used to tell people that um

I drive an 18-wheeler because on the 747

I had 18 wheels. Right. Yeah. They look

at me they kind of size me up a little

bit. You don't look like a truck driver.

You know you actually just made a really

good point. You do look the part though

of a pilot. So you could say, "I'm a

pilot. I fly 47s." And people were like,

"Oh my god, really? Tell me all about

it." Right? I could say the exact same

thing and they'd be like, "Uhuh. Okay,

sweetie." And like that's pretty much

the response that I would get to like

argue with someone like, "No, I swear to

God, really? I'm a captain on Airbus."

Nobody really took it seriously. Oh,

funny. So,

so great. You look the part, they're

going, "Oh my god, this is the guy I

want to I want to talk to him." And

plus, I'm a lot taller than you are.

Disappointed. What's that? I said,

"Plus, I'm a lot taller than you are."

You told me you're like 5'4. I'm I'm

5'3. Thank you very much. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. You're only I I as you know

he knows I actually am sitting on Should

I tell I'm sitting on a booster seat in

my own dining room because I was too

short for my own laptop. So I have Yeah,

you're these are these are the these are

the pre camera pre-c camera

arrangements. I'm like wait a second I'm

too. This is so people should know, you

know, you just have to have the drive at

wanting to be a pilot. You know, like a

lot of countries, you know, the height,

the weight, the race, even the religion

gets in the way and that you cannot

qualify. And I remember when I was a

young kid and applied to the Air Force,

they asked me if I had a filling in my

tooth. I said, "Yeah, as a matter of

fact, you know, I had the filling." They

said, "You disqualify for just having a

filling in your tooth." I'm like, uh,

this is something wrong with this

picture. Yeah. I was just at any So,

yeah. Yeah. So, talking about date with

destiny, my date with Destiny, my uh um

uh moment came, you know, at 36,000 ft

flying, you know, from San Francisco to

Honolulu when we had the catastrophic

failure on the right engine and

miraculously we were able to save 381

lives and the airplane. Um, you know, I

always say that to people that whatever

you do in life, go the extra mile.

Always sharpen your saw. Always do more

than is asked of you to do because you

never know when you are going to be

asked to perform at your best. You know,

Churchill says that, you know, a tap on

the shoulder when you are really put in

a place that you really need to perform.

Was there a moment in aviation that

really really tested all your skills and training?

training?

Oh gosh, like every moment tests all

your skills, don't they? Um, well, I

mean, we are living in an environment

that, you know, you got to make zero

mistakes, you know, there is no, you

can't just push the pause button, you

know. Yeah.

Stop up there. So, everything is just

very dynamic. Yeah, it's it's exactly

right. you can't pull over to the side

of the road and say, "Let's think about

this." Um, you know, it it's an

interesting question. I mean, certainly

there's been lots of challenges and

times where you have to step up to the

plate. I think the first time that

really hit me, um, going way back when I

was a flight instructor, um, I was with

a student who was kind of a big bulky

guy and he had an attitude and we had an

engine failure, which is not that big a

deal, right? Put the nose down. Go

through your Did it failure on a single

engine or 172 single engine 72 miles of

power? And um you know I I know what to

do. You know, you have your training.

It's like okay, I've got this. But what

I didn't count on was that that student

panicked. He froze on the controls and

he yanked back just as like an instinct.

He just yanked back. And the fact that

my size is what it is became suddenly

became an issue or had not been an issue

in my mind up until that point I hadn't

really really um ever focused on you

know being small right and he

overpowered me and even though I knew

what to do and I could fly the airplane

I knew all the procedures and I wasn't

you know I was like I've got this we're

good I found a nice spot to land I

couldn't physically overcome him

physically overcoming me. And that was

um that was probably my first like come

to you know come to Jesus moment was

holy crap all the training in the world

I can't overcome this and I ended up um

pulling the I end up pulling the gust

lock out of the seat uh the seat pocket

and beating him with it until he finally

snapped out of it and let go of the

controls and then I got the nose down

but we came very very very close to

stalling and and spinning very close and

um you know that all the training in the

world couldn't have prepared me for that

moment because I had no idea that he was

going to respond like that and that I

would be put in the position having

nothing to do with aviation or my skills

or my knowledge but just you know a

total oh my god what do I do now you

know so

you know um I had a similar situation

you know I do martial arts and uh I'm a

third degree black belt and Japanese

style. There is a maneuver that you do

with your elbow is called empty. You

know, it could be this way to the chin

or it could be sideways to the ribs. So,

I'm just like you. I'm a flight

instructor. Remember the old uh I'm

flying a right 172. We're doing

maneuvers. We're doing stalls and we do

spins. And so, remember the old days we

actually would practice spins in the

airplanes. Hey, when I was in high

school, I would go up and just I would

do barrel rolls. I did a loop once or

twice. I would do spins like as a

student pilot, you know, as a teenager

just that anymore. No, you can't. But I

I I didn't think twice about it, right?

Because we were just like, you know,

nobody We had no tail numbers on the

airplane back then either. Like they

were like microscopically small. So,

yeah. Nobody could take a picture. Here

we are. Yeah. In a practice area like

4,500 feet. And I told the guys, we're

going to do a spin to the left, like two

spins. You know, he's he's a pilot now.

I mean, he's got his instrument rating,

go towards his commercial. And I asked

him if you had spin endorsement. I mean,

those days that you really needed to get

an endorsement to do spins. And for

those of you guys who might not know

what a spin is, you get the aircraft

into a nose high attitude. You increase

the angle of attack to a point that the

airplane starts buffing and shaking and

falls out of the sky. We call it stall

and you have to lower the nose like

Laura was saying to gain air speed. Now

if you don't have coordination

uh by your feet keep the ball in the

center the low wing could drop as you

saw and the aircraft would go come

tumble down uh or we call it the spin.

And again to come out of the

spin you just push the opposite right

there. Keep the nose down. Now you're

going from spinning like this to a nose

dive. And gently you bring the nose up.

Otherwise, if you pull up too hard, you

could rip the wings off. And we've seen

that on YouTube that some guys have done

that in air shows. Uh so just like your

scenario, Laura. Mhm. We get into spin.

So I go, okay, one turn, two

turn, come out of it. He's scared, you

know, because to do the spin, you're

putting the nose back already. Right.

And in a stall, you just got to release

the back pressure. So the nose drops.

But because the airplane start tumbling,

the guy is scared and he's holding it

back. So we go to three t three turns in

a spin. Then the fourth and the fifth.

I'm keep telling him let go. Even if you

just let go, the airplane would go back

into a nose drive attitude.

And he's not. And just like you, I'm

trying to put my hand on the yolk, try

go the other way. He's not. So I

literally elbowed him right in his wrist

so hard that knocked the wind out of

him. Yeah. Knocked the wind out. I think

we recovered about 1500 ft. You know in

your case I mean you had lost the

engine. Jesus. I mean Yeah. It was it

was scary because like I said I can put

it down but I can't I put it can't put

it down in a spin. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You

know I always focus on safety. I always

focus on safety no matter what. You

know, I always would show up at the

simulator on time and you know, a lot of

times the guys soon as they're done with

the check rides or the three bounces, if

they're, you know, lapsing, takeoff and

landings, they just want to get out of

the cockpit. You know, I've been saying

this a lot on my speeches, too. I always

stayed behind and always went the extra

mile. I would always ask the instructor

to let me do two things. You know, like

when you're done with the training, they

say, "Well, is anything else you want to

see?" You know, like you're done with

the check ride. you know, you're good to

go for another 9 months. I always say,

you know, put me about 10,000 ft

um 5,000 ft about 10 miles out of San

Fran. Mhm. Shut everything down, whether

it was a 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, triple 7.

Shut everything down at night and I'm

just going to glide and land this

airplane with no

power. And I've never missed the runway.

I always counted on my stick and rudder

feel and that came really really handy

when we lost the engine over the

Pacific. Yeah. Because you know from

36,000 ft all the way to touchdown was

manually flown really gingerly really

smoothly so you wouldn't overstress the

aircraft. And uh and I've never missed

San Fran. Even a few times I had to slip

a 747 or a trip 7 to slip it to get it

down but never overshot the runway and

always landed. The second thing I would

always ask him to do was put me about

20,000 ft and 320 knots auto off uh

pilot off flight directors off and I

would do a barrel roll to the right and

a barrel roll to the left again. 7273747.

7273747.

Yep. And people say, "Bullshit." You

know, we don't believe you say that. I

said, "I I I've done it." So, guess what

I did on my last check ride at United?

Yes. I had it filmed.

Did you? I have it filmed. I I'll I'll

send it to you. So, I'm coming over to

Colorado range, right? I do a barrel

roll on the trip 7 to the right and to

the left. And since I don't work for

United anymore, I might put it on social

media sooner or later. One of these

days, but uh you know, it's just

amazing. At 320 knots, you bring the

nose up to 20° and the right elev

uh rudder and just do sweet one jeep

barrel roll. You know, I always tell

people if you're sitting back there with

a glass of wine, you won't even spill

the darn thing. You wouldn't even know

that we just did this. Yeah. Um anyways,

it was a lot of fun. You know there's

been uh you you and I witnessed you know

decades and decades of changes in

aviation. Yeah. Decades of changes.

Where do you think the aviation safety

stands right now? where uh you know what

are the some of the blind spots as you

and I you know getting going leaving the

major airline and I can talk about this

more freely than when I did when I was

working for United but I am somewhat

concerned and

you know that the changes are happening

is is nobody's fault it's just a reality

of the thing you know people like myself

with 30,000 hours of flight time

and doing something remarkable in

history of aviation by saving 381 lives.

You know they say that that would have

been the worst aviation disaster in

United States involving one aircraft.

Yeah. I mean there have been cases that

more people have died or perished. First

of all to be honest with you I'm getting

a lot of compliments now

because we saved that many people

unfortunately as you know. Yeah, the

last few months alone, whether it was

the South Korean jetliner crash or what

happened in DC and other places,

hundreds and hundreds of people perished

for because of human error or whatever

the case is, the fact that we saved this

many lives, people are beginning to

appreciate it. So, where do you think

the aviation safety stands? What are the

some of the blind spots as far as you're

concerned we should uh watch for? Oh

gosh, I could get myself in trouble with

this one.

Um, first of all, I would like to note

how safe flying is. I think uh the

latest statistic I saw was

12.3 million people fly around the world

every single day safely. That's 365 days

a year. Billions. It's very safe. Yeah.

Millions of hours of of safe flying. Um

we we we've definitely increased safety

in a lot of respects over the years,

right? looking back towards like

Tenneref all the um modernization of

aircraft and technology um that has

developed over the years has certainly

increased safety in a lot of respects. I

think um the biggest increase to safety

just in my opinion is the um not so much

the modernization of uh equipment but

just the tremendous advancements we've

made in communication. And as as silly

as that seems, uh we get ourselves in

trouble with miscommunication and not

understanding. You have any trouble with

what? With miscommunication.

Miscommunication. Like you think about

all these runway encouragements, you

think about all the different things,

all the close uh calls that we've had.

Uh a huge part of that is just somebody

misunderstood something, right? Even

like these latest crashes like the one

that just happened in DCA. Clearly there

was a breakdown in communication here

that caused well that caused that that

um that tragedy. Um you know as far as

like what we're missing loopholes I mean h

yeah you know we've had a lot of

developments over the years that have

given us more information right we now

have very comprehensive cockpit voice

recorders. We can now go behind the

scenes when there's an accident or just

a mishap or an incident or something

that you know uh you know didn't lead to

a tragedy but could have and we can

really dissect it and figure out what

led to um this you know this incident.

And most of the time it's some sort of

human factors issue, right? And that

human factors could be any number of

different things from a workload to

procedures to communication. And I think

the cockpit voice recorder, as invasive

as it may be, has given us a lot of

really good information um to get to the

bottom of what needs to be changed. Um I

think a a loophole is that that part of

the investigation doesn't extend outside

of the cockpit. Um, and like for

example, we have area mics in the

cockpit. So, we know other than what is

being communicated over the radio, what

other things are going on that may have

contributed to the mistakes that were

made. But we don't have the exact same

equivalent in say an air traffic control

facility where you have five or six

people say in a small area and or just

one controller managing too many

different things. Well, We don't know.

That's the assumption, but we don't know

because we don't know. And that's that's

No, no, I'm not talking about the DCA

crash, but in in most cases, I've been

to airports that the clearance, ground,

tower, all one same person because

everybody else is gone and because we

have become complacent and because we

think that well this is a SOP every

night, nothing's going to change. But

that's where it gets you. You know nine

out of ten in cases nine out of ten

nothing happens and when it happens one

time is a

coordinated stuff that happens is

accident just not an accident like I was

talking to Peter a mentor pilot he said

you got to go back on the ground before

this whole thing started you know in the

flight planning phase to see how

everything led for this two trends to

meet and create that accident, right?

And that's exactly exactly the point you

you made it beautifully that that I'm

making is that um there are so many, you

know, holes in the Swiss cheese that

lead up to whatever the ultimate

incident is, right? And and but we just

don't know. We don't know that piece of

the puzzle is what I'm trying to say.

And it's it's such really good

information to have like in the cockpit

you have two trained professionals in a

sterile environment and still we get

really good information um in that small

little bubble we get very good

information from like an area mic

wouldn't we also get good information if

it was in like a Treycon where there's

15 16 people um maybe there's tours

going on uh maybe you have one person

who has a high workload mode and you've

got two people that are also there but

they're you know not contributing or

maybe the procedures need to change or

maybe communication between I'm just

saying I'm just saying we don't know

that's all I'm saying a piece of the

puzzle that is always and forever a

mystery and going all the way back to

Tenneref where there were three

controllers um and you know three pilots

in each of the aircraft and we got

tremendous information from the cockpit

divorce reporters. We learned a lot

about procedures and communication, but

we didn't get any information from that

third piece in the puzzle. And I just

think that

um everybody really really cares about

safety and really cares about keeping

everybody alive. And I think it's a huge

teamwork and CRM has contributed to

safety tremendously and CRM started off

just being the two uh two pilots. Then

they included the flight attendants.

Obviously, we need to hear from them,

too. Then they included dispatchers and

mechanics and even passengers.

Everybody's in that loop of whatever

information we can garner, let's use it.

But shouldn't controllers also be in

that CRM loop? Shouldn't that also that

information also it would just be

helpful? Yeah, that CRM is important,

man. Not only for in aviation, for in

air traffic controller, you gota have it

with the mechanics. So, you know,

there's checks and balances. So you're

always passing on the baton to the other

guy especially in hospital with doctors

and I mean how many death could be

prevented in hospital because of that.

You also talk a lot about

self-confidence and taking risk. How do

you build that type of confidence and

what's needed to make those split uh

decision or split-second decisions? What

when you refer to those things? Oh gosh.

I mean you could answer that better than

me I'm sure. Um, you know, honestly,

it's it's experience and uh it's it's

like kind of like back backing up to

what we were talking about before. Um,

it's every single time you get something

right, like register that, soak it in,

replay the things you did right in your

mind, and that continues to build

confidence, that continues to change

your image of yourself, you know, in

your own mind. And I always kind of live

by a philosophy in my life to um always

try to be just a little bit in over your

head because when you're in just a

little bit over your head, you are

growing and you're learning and you're

going to the next step. And then the

next day, you're going to be above water

at that level, but now you're going to

be at the next level. And honestly, I

think that's the greatest way to build

self-confidence is to just always

challenge yourself. do a little bit more

than you thought you could do, be a

little bit unsure of yourself, and you,

you know, you'll surprise yourself every

single time. You'll pull it off, and

then you just keep moving forward and

just keep climbing up that ladder. I

think that's Yeah. I always tell people,

life's going to life is going to throw

you a lot of curve balls. Don't complain

about the curveball. Just get become a

better batter. Just get better at

batting it back because that's how you

build the confidence going forward.

Yeah. Uh, your book Jet Boss is featured

in Smithsonian. Good for you, man. I'm

so proud of you. You inspired What

inspired you to write it? And uh, what

has been the most rewarding feedback you

have received when people read that book

and get back to you? What inspired me to

write? You know, that's that's a good

question. I um didn't set out to write a

book. Um, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't

like a goal of one of these things. It

wasn't a goal of mine and then, you

know, nothing just happens. you have to

work hard towards anything but suddenly

that became something I I decided to

start working towards. Uh I think what

happened with me was

uh 911 happened. I was in flight

training. I was actually in captain uh

captain upgrade school at that time and

it was um it was just it was just a a horrible horrible time you know at the

horrible horrible time you know at the airlines and uh we were in the flight

airlines and uh we were in the flight training center and we couldn't go

training center and we couldn't go anywhere because everything was

anywhere because everything was grounded. We couldn't continue training

grounded. We couldn't continue training because it was just it was just

because it was just it was just everybody was just too um just too

everybody was just too um just too traumatized to to really concentrate and

traumatized to to really concentrate and to and to and to do that. And it was so

to and to and to do that. And it was so surreal. I remember I started just

surreal. I remember I started just writing down in my hotel stationary like

writing down in my hotel stationary like what was happening. Like somebody

what was happening. Like somebody thought to use our airplanes as guided

thought to use our airplanes as guided missiles. Yeah. Like it was just so

missiles. Yeah. Like it was just so unbelievable and um such an emotional

unbelievable and um such an emotional time. I just started writing down what

time. I just started writing down what was happening and what I was feeling and

was happening and what I was feeling and what was going on. And that really is

what was going on. And that really is what led to me writing. That's what I

what led to me writing. That's what I discovered. Um, you know, I I I I'm

discovered. Um, you know, I I I I'm going to I'm going to keep writing about

going to I'm going to keep writing about things that are happening. And then

things that are happening. And then after that, I was a brand new hire, a

after that, I was a brand new hire, a brand new captain. Um, and I was based

brand new captain. Um, and I was based out of DCA. I was based out of

out of DCA. I was based out of Washington right in the immediate

Washington right in the immediate aftermath of 911. and you know if the

aftermath of 911. and you know if the air marshals and I mean it was just it

air marshals and I mean it was just it was a christening by fire and again I

was a christening by fire and again I was like I just almost as a I don't know

was like I just almost as a I don't know it was like therapeutic I was just

it was like therapeutic I was just writing down what was happening and I

writing down what was happening and I think it occurred to me a little later

think it occurred to me a little later that a lot of that was just history you

that a lot of that was just history you know that was this was a quite a time in

know that was this was a quite a time in American history um and then just it was

American history um and then just it was very interesting being the captain that

very interesting being the captain that looked like they called me the teenage

looked like they called me the teenage captain because I looked very young back

captain because I looked very young back then and captain the the mechanics in

then and captain the the mechanics in Washington started saying calling me the

Washington started saying calling me the teenage captain and it stuck and that

teenage captain and it stuck and that became kind of like my little moniker

became kind of like my little moniker and um nobody took me seriously you know

and um nobody took me seriously you know so it was it was really kind of comical

so it was it was really kind of comical but then I was I started writing about

but then I was I started writing about that you know like from my perspective

that you know like from my perspective doing this you know in Washington and

doing this you know in Washington and and I don't know it just one again one

and I don't know it just one again one thing led to the next that led to the

thing led to the next that led to the next and and even then I had written all

next and and even then I had written all these different you know everything that

these different you know everything that was happening and it was kind of funny

was happening and it was kind of funny and kind of serious and I didn't think

and kind of serious and I didn't think much of it until um I think a little

much of it until um I think a little later I started to realize like the

later I started to realize like the light bulb went off that I had become

light bulb went off that I had become the person that I wish I knew when I was

the person that I wish I knew when I was a young girl just getting into aviation

a young girl just getting into aviation and I didn't know anything. I had no one

and I didn't know anything. I had no one to ask any advice. You know, I got

to ask any advice. You know, I got pregnant. I didn't know what to do. I

pregnant. I didn't know what to do. I mean, there's just so much confusion and

mean, there's just so much confusion and like there's no owner's manual for, you

like there's no owner's manual for, you know, for being, you know, for being a

know, for being, you know, for being a girl, you know, in this industry. And I

girl, you know, in this industry. And I think that was probably the catalyst

think that was probably the catalyst that made me get serious about, you know

that made me get serious about, you know what, I I'm going to I'm going to get

what, I I'm going to I'm going to get this printed. I'm gonna I'm gonna um I'm

this printed. I'm gonna I'm gonna um I'm going to write this and get serious

going to write this and get serious about this. And I want It's not easy, is

about this. And I want It's not easy, is it? You know, no, it's a lot of work.

it? You know, no, it's a lot of work. No, a lot of people think it's like a

No, a lot of people think it's like a whole industry. It's like a cutthroat

whole industry. It's like a cutthroat industry publishing. It really is. It

industry publishing. It really is. It was It was crazy. But that's it. That's,

was It was crazy. But that's it. That's, you know, I just decided I I I need to

you know, I just decided I I I need to get this out there, you know. Um and

get this out there, you know. Um and it's, you know, now I'm in the

it's, you know, now I'm in the Smithsonian. So, like, oh my gosh, you

Smithsonian. So, like, oh my gosh, you know, uh I it it has done well, a lot

know, uh I it it has done well, a lot better obviously than I ever thought it

better obviously than I ever thought it was going to do. So, yeah. No, it's it

was going to do. So, yeah. No, it's it is not easy, man. I'll tell you. But,

is not easy, man. I'll tell you. But, you know, I was um thinking about it. I

you know, I was um thinking about it. I have couple of more ideas that uh

have couple of more ideas that uh especially in success principle areas,

especially in success principle areas, motivational leadership that I have so

motivational leadership that I have so much information up here. I just have to

much information up here. I just have to find the time to sit down and write

find the time to sit down and write those into my great stories. Hey, your

those into my great stories. Hey, your stories in um are in the chicken soup

stories in um are in the chicken soup for souls and published by Simon

for souls and published by Simon Schuster. Do you have favorite aviation

Schuster. Do you have favorite aviation story you like to share with us? Do I

story you like to share with us? Do I have a favorite aviation story? Um yeah,

have a favorite aviation story? Um yeah, I'm in three. the Chicken Soup for the

I'm in three. the Chicken Soup for the Soul books. And um I just like just one

Soul books. And um I just like just one cute one that's actually at the

cute one that's actually at the beginning of my book here. Um just a

beginning of my book here. Um just a very light-hearted one. When um when

very light-hearted one. When um when when my my son was in Oh my gosh, he

when my my son was in Oh my gosh, he just still cracks me. When my son was in

just still cracks me. When my son was in preschool when he was four years old and

preschool when he was four years old and he was very very shy. As you can see,

he was very very shy. As you can see, the apple does not well the apple can

the apple does not well the apple can fall very far from the tree. One one of

fall very far from the tree. One one of my sons is outgoing. One of them is very

my sons is outgoing. One of them is very shy. And um he was in preschool and the

shy. And um he was in preschool and the teacher was going around the room, you

teacher was going around the room, you know, criss-cross applesauce. Everyone

know, criss-cross applesauce. Everyone had to answer the same question. What do

had to answer the same question. What do you want to be when you grow up? And

you want to be when you grow up? And when she got to my son, he wouldn't

when she got to my son, he wouldn't answer her cuz he was just all, you

answer her cuz he was just all, you know, nervous and didn't want to answer.

know, nervous and didn't want to answer. And so being very helpful and very sweet

And so being very helpful and very sweet in the most sugary preschool teacher

in the most sugary preschool teacher voice, she goes, "Oh, well, do you want

voice, she goes, "Oh, well, do you want to be a pilot?" And boy, that woke him

to be a pilot?" And boy, that woke him up. He just got this look of disgust on

up. He just got this look of disgust on his face. He goes, "A a pilot?" He goes,

his face. He goes, "A a pilot?" He goes, "That that's a that's a girl's job." And

"That that's a that's a girl's job." And he was like,

he was like, he was so she would like infer that he

he was so she would like infer that he should grow up to be a girl. And he was

should grow up to be a girl. And he was absolutely indignant at that suggestion.

absolutely indignant at that suggestion. And I'm I was I was a classroom

And I'm I was I was a classroom volunteer. So I was like in the back of

volunteer. So I was like in the back of the room going,

the room going, you know, so I it just cracked me up. It

you know, so I it just cracked me up. It But you know, that's funny. Out of the

But you know, that's funny. Out of the mouth of babes, he he was it was the

mouth of babes, he he was it was the most innocent. It just shows you

most innocent. It just shows you perspective. Perspective really is

perspective. Perspective really is everything, isn't it? It's uh it's all

everything, isn't it? It's uh it's all it's all what you know growing up. What

it's all what you know growing up. What is normal for you is how you're going to

is normal for you is how you're going to see yourself in this world. And um you

see yourself in this world. And um you know, that was that was the way he saw

know, that was that was the way he saw the world. And you know, it was very

the world. And you know, it was very different than how I how I saw the

different than how I how I saw the world. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a job

world. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a job for girls. Yep. Well, you build an

for girls. Yep. Well, you build an incredible legacy in aviation in my

incredible legacy in aviation in my opinion at least. You know, riding,

opinion at least. You know, riding, mentoring. What's next on the horizon

mentoring. What's next on the horizon for you? Oh, you want to team up, huh?

for you? Oh, you want to team up, huh? You know, we might cross paths

You know, we might cross paths somewhere.

somewhere. I love being on the stage. I I don't

I love being on the stage. I I don't know if I told you or not, but last

know if I told you or not, but last April, I think I was in front of General

April, I think I was in front of General Electric, 20,000 people. I mean, I get

Electric, 20,000 people. I mean, I get really, really, really energized. Yes.

really, really, really energized. Yes. And u I couldn't picture that. Yeah.

And u I couldn't picture that. Yeah. Well, you know, just like some of the

Well, you know, just like some of the people that asked me to go become a

people that asked me to go become a keynote speaker just for my energy

keynote speaker just for my energy because, you know, I can't be animated.

because, you know, I can't be animated. I'm not shy. I I know my stuff. I've

I'm not shy. I I know my stuff. I've proven it. You know, I have the

proven it. You know, I have the self-confidence and a quiet confidence.

self-confidence and a quiet confidence. I don't have to go show it off. But I

I don't have to go show it off. But I love absolutely love sharing. And I

love absolutely love sharing. And I think if you, me and maybe Merryill

think if you, me and maybe Merryill somewhere, you know, we cross path or we

somewhere, you know, we cross path or we same conference would be awesome. about

same conference would be awesome. about to do book signs with Merrill out in um

to do book signs with Merrill out in um the Wii conference is coming up. So Oh

the Wii conference is coming up. So Oh yeah. When is that? The It's in Denver.

yeah. When is that? The It's in Denver. The women aviation conference.

The women aviation conference. Okay. Got a question for you on that.

Okay. Got a question for you on that. You don't allow men in there to come out

You don't allow men in there to come out and speak, right? Um have you has there

and speak, right? Um have you has there been men? there. Well, there's there's

been men? there. Well, there's there's like 50% of the attendees are men

like 50% of the attendees are men because they do a lot of interviewing

because they do a lot of interviewing and stuff and so um the the men are 100%

and stuff and so um the the men are 100% as far as the speakers because I would

as far as the speakers because I would love to be there to share my aviation

love to be there to share my aviation story of what happened up there. Okay.

story of what happened up there. Okay. Hey, hint hint hint. You know, it's

Hey, hint hint hint. You know, it's like, you know, and uh if if any

like, you know, and uh if if any somebody watch this or you have a friend

somebody watch this or you have a friend and they want me come talk about United

and they want me come talk about United 1175 because that has made pilots safer.

1175 because that has made pilots safer. As a matter of fact,

As a matter of fact, as a matter of

as a matter of c fact, Captain Stevenson, who flew out

c fact, Captain Stevenson, who flew out of Denver when the engine blew up, I

of Denver when the engine blew up, I happened to run into him at the flight

happened to run into him at the flight ops in San Fran. Mhm. And you know, I

ops in San Fran. Mhm. And you know, I have a video on it about it that I put

have a video on it about it that I put it on on the u my

it on on the u my Instagram. So, you know, I obviously I

Instagram. So, you know, I obviously I knew who he was. He knew who I was. And

knew who he was. He knew who I was. And he said, "You know what? Um I watched

he said, "You know what? Um I watched your videos. I watched that animation

your videos. I watched that animation you made about 75. I've seen it." Yeah.

you made about 75. I've seen it." Yeah. Yeah. And and Laura, the the reason for

Yeah. And and Laura, the the reason for that animation was that when they fed

that animation was that when they fed the information from a cockpit, not a

the information from a cockpit, not a flight data recorder into the computers

flight data recorder into the computers and put it in the sims, the vibration

and put it in the sims, the vibration was so severe it was ripping the jacks

was so severe it was ripping the jacks off the concrete on the sim. Yeah. I

off the concrete on the sim. Yeah. I said, "Captain, we can't teach this.

said, "Captain, we can't teach this. This is not like Yeah. the windshare

This is not like Yeah. the windshare thing that Delta had in Dallas that, you

thing that Delta had in Dallas that, you know, we all practice and learn from."

know, we all practice and learn from." They said, "We can't practice this." I

They said, "We can't practice this." I said, "Well, dial it down to 50%." Even

said, "Well, dial it down to 50%." Even at that point, it was too severe. It

at that point, it was too severe. It would damage the simulator. And as you

would damage the simulator. And as you know, those simulators get used 247 and

know, those simulators get used 247 and they couldn't do it. Yeah. So, I thought

they couldn't do it. Yeah. So, I thought I want to share with the rest of the

I want to share with the rest of the world what really happened up there. And

world what really happened up there. And Juan Brand Blanco did a phenomenal job

Juan Brand Blanco did a phenomenal job and putting that up. And, you know, lot

and putting that up. And, you know, lot of lot of pilots from many different

of lot of pilots from many different airlines have seen. You probably did one

airlines have seen. You probably did one too, right? on your incident.

too, right? on your incident. Yeah. Well, he Yeah, he did the part of

Yeah. Well, he Yeah, he did the part of it. He put that, but I mean, he did a

it. He put that, but I mean, he did a great job. I mean, his uh Peter did

great job. I mean, his uh Peter did amazing job, too. And uh so, Captain

amazing job, too. And uh so, Captain Steven says said that I had watched your

Steven says said that I had watched your video. Therefore, you know, the lessons

video. Therefore, you know, the lessons that I learned through you helped me

that I learned through you helped me with my decision making to land that

with my decision making to land that airplane safely on the ground. So, which

airplane safely on the ground. So, which is a really really good Yeah. um thing

is a really really good Yeah. um thing to remember you know as

to remember you know as your outcome was successful right yeah

your outcome was successful right yeah and so many lessons come out of

and so many lessons come out of successful outcomes and we don't I think

successful outcomes and we don't I think we don't focus enough on that we focus a

we don't focus enough on that we focus a lot on when something really bad happens

lot on when something really bad happens what could what should we have done

what could what should we have done differently but when something really

differently but when something really bad almost happens and we we pull out of

bad almost happens and we we pull out of it let's figure out what was done right

it let's figure out what was done right so we can make sure that wasn't a fluke

so we can make sure that wasn't a fluke that everyone gets gets that message

that everyone gets gets that message gets that training that information.

gets that training that information. Yeah, exactly. You know what? We got

Yeah, exactly. You know what? We got interviewed by FAA, NTSB and the company

interviewed by FAA, NTSB and the company after the incident. I never forget the

after the incident. I never forget the NTP gentleman said, you know, captain,

NTP gentleman said, you know, captain, you have no idea what a pleasure it is

you have no idea what a pleasure it is to talk to a live captain. Yes. And

to talk to a live captain. Yes. And hearing what happened, right? Yeah. Then

hearing what happened, right? Yeah. Then rather than picking up the pieces from

rather than picking up the pieces from the bottom of the ocean, try to put them

the bottom of the ocean, try to put them together and figure out what happened.

together and figure out what happened. You know, I think that was really really

You know, I think that was really really important. Um Yeah. Yeah. Your story

important. Um Yeah. Yeah. Your story isn't just about aviation. It's about

isn't just about aviation. It's about breaking barriers and uh chasing big

breaking barriers and uh chasing big dreams. Uh you say maybe it didn't start

dreams. Uh you say maybe it didn't start with a dream but at some point you know

with a dream but at some point you know flying and becoming a captain writing a

flying and becoming a captain writing a big book became a dream. What's the

big book became a dream. What's the secret to pushing past the fear and

secret to pushing past the fear and doubt and go after what of what what you

doubt and go after what of what what you want in your mind? What's the secret to

want in your mind? What's the secret to that?

that? Um, gosh, put into something that just

Um, gosh, put into something that just happens, you know? I mean, it's

happens, you know? I mean, it's it's, you know, honestly, it's kind of

it's, you know, honestly, it's kind of like what we were saying before. It's

like what we were saying before. It's just taking every day and and whatever

just taking every day and and whatever you get right, focus on that and learn

you get right, focus on that and learn from that and try to repeat that. It's

from that and try to repeat that. It's kind of like, you know, whatever

kind of like, you know, whatever whatever hand you're dealt, right? We're

whatever hand you're dealt, right? We're all we're all dealt a different hand,

all we're all dealt a different hand, you know, and playing your cards to the

you know, and playing your cards to the absolute best of your ability. You know

absolute best of your ability. You know what I I found that what has gotten me

what I I found that what has gotten me really far in life is um whenever I'm

really far in life is um whenever I'm given an opportunity, I just take it and

given an opportunity, I just take it and I and I run. You know, I run with it.

I and I run. You know, I run with it. And whenever I have a chance to to

And whenever I have a chance to to succeed at something, you know, I I do

succeed at something, you know, I I do everything I can possibly do to make it

everything I can possibly do to make it work. And then when I've done everything

work. And then when I've done everything I can possibly think of, I do a little

I can possibly think of, I do a little bit more. And if you just always going

bit more. And if you just always going the extra mile, like I call it, always

the extra mile, like I call it, always going the extra mile. You just have to

going the extra mile. You just have to because you're never gonna really get

because you're never gonna really get any place, you know, really far if you

any place, you know, really far if you settle for, you know, I I I achieved

settle for, you know, I I I achieved what I thought I was going to achieve or

what I thought I was going to achieve or I I set this goal and I met this goal.

I I set this goal and I met this goal. You can't be happy. You have to keep

You can't be happy. You have to keep moving the goalpost. I mean, and the

moving the goalpost. I mean, and the more you move it, uh, the more you

more you move it, uh, the more you realize that what you can do. And I mean

realize that what you can do. And I mean kind of like that's been the secret with

kind of like that's been the secret with me is I've never been um satisfied with

me is I've never been um satisfied with you know like I I get on with you know

you know like I I get on with you know United well now I want to move up to

United well now I want to move up to this airplane. I'm Boeing. I'm like I

this airplane. I'm Boeing. I'm like I want to try Airbus. Right. You have to

want to try Airbus. Right. You have to just keep moving the goalpost to bigger

just keep moving the goalpost to bigger and better things. Keep moving it

and better things. Keep moving it forward. Exactly. Exactly. And um I

forward. Exactly. Exactly. And um I think that's kind of the the the key to

think that's kind of the the the key to really getting anywhere far in life. I

really getting anywhere far in life. I mean, I started writing notes about 911

mean, I started writing notes about 911 on hotel stationary and longhand and I

on hotel stationary and longhand and I end up, you know, getting a book in the

end up, you know, getting a book in the uh in the Smithsonian. So, you just keep

uh in the Smithsonian. So, you just keep moving that goalpost and keep yourself

moving that goalpost and keep yourself just a little bit underwater and you

just a little bit underwater and you know, you know, like I wanted to be a

know, you know, like I wanted to be a 747 pilot since I was 9 years old.

747 pilot since I was 9 years old. Coming from a different country, there

Coming from a different country, there was no opportunities. They were not even

was no opportunities. They were not even 7 I mean there were a couple of 747 ISBs

7 I mean there were a couple of 747 ISBs for Iran era at the time but obviously

for Iran era at the time but obviously that I wasn't going to become part of

that I wasn't going to become part of that and when I came to the states and

that and when I came to the states and became a pilot and did fly the 47 after

became a pilot and did fly the 47 after a couple of years I'm like is that all

a couple of years I'm like is that all there is is all this thing that I

there is is all this thing that I dreamed about and that's what you're

dreamed about and that's what you're talking about you know the key to my

talking about you know the key to my happiness is I had no expectations you

happiness is I had no expectations you know going up from the back seat to the

know going up from the back seat to the right seat from the right seat to the

right seat from the right seat to the left seat and then working your way up I

left seat and then working your way up I Apart from that, becoming an

Apart from that, becoming an entrepreneur, pushing yourself in that

entrepreneur, pushing yourself in that department, building a life, having

department, building a life, having getting married, having kids, and you

getting married, having kids, and you know some of the toys that you wanted to

know some of the toys that you wanted to have in life. I don't have these toys

have in life. I don't have these toys because I want to show off. These are

because I want to show off. These are the things I wrote them when I was like

the things I wrote them when I was like 17, 18, 20 years old. Yeah. Now, you

17, 18, 20 years old. Yeah. Now, you know, 40 years later, I have that and

know, 40 years later, I have that and it's is mine is is something that I

it's is mine is is something that I worked hard at it. I worked honest. I

worked hard at it. I worked honest. I did an honest job. Worked hard to get

did an honest job. Worked hard to get there. And right now, you know, people

there. And right now, you know, people ask me, well, what what do you do? I,

ask me, well, what what do you do? I, you know, a lot of people say, well, I'm

you know, a lot of people say, well, I'm retired. You're not a pilot. I don't say

retired. You're not a pilot. I don't say that. I'm a keynote speaker. I'm a

that. I'm a keynote speaker. I'm a motivational speaker. That's what is my

motivational speaker. That's what is my passion. That's what juices up. Right.

passion. That's what juices up. Right. You achieved your goal. I said, you

You achieved your goal. I said, you moved your own goal. You achieved your

moved your own goal. You achieved your goal and now you're doing something that

goal and now you're doing something that you did not expect to do 20 years ago.

you did not expect to do 20 years ago. You have to keep finding new things. And

You have to keep finding new things. And you know, there's kind of like a fine

you know, there's kind of like a fine line between like squirrel and being

line between like squirrel and being distracted versus just being open-minded

distracted versus just being open-minded and saying, "Ah, I never thought about

and saying, "Ah, I never thought about that. You know what? I'm a pilot, but I

that. You know what? I'm a pilot, but I can do this also." And you know, you

can do this also." And you know, you just have to always be open to seeing

just have to always be open to seeing new opportunities, seeing new things,

new opportunities, seeing new things, seeing new new sides to yourself. I

seeing new new sides to yourself. I never I just I'm a dumb pilot. I'm not a

never I just I'm a dumb pilot. I'm not a author right now. I'm like in Barnes &

author right now. I'm like in Barnes & Noble. So, you're Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Noble. So, you're Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Now you're writer. Now your books are

Now you're writer. Now your books are out and I I do speeches and you know one

out and I I do speeches and you know one thing's going to led to another another

thing's going to led to another another door open another avenue in front of

door open another avenue in front of you. Yeah, it's exciting. Yeah, it's

you. Yeah, it's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting. Yeah, actually it is kind of

exciting. Yeah, actually it is kind of exciting, isn't it? So it's it's really

exciting, isn't it? So it's it's really it's really fun. I I I think, you know,

it's really fun. I I I think, you know, just backpedaling a little, I think a

just backpedaling a little, I think a big key to um success is to have fun

big key to um success is to have fun because I think anything that you enjoy

because I think anything that you enjoy doing, you're going to be good at it and

doing, you're going to be good at it and you're going to put the work into it

you're going to put the work into it because you like being there. You like

because you like being there. You like doing what you're doing. So, it would be

doing what you're doing. So, it would be really hard, I think, to be successful

really hard, I think, to be successful at something that you don't want to do

at something that you don't want to do or you don't enjoy doing. So, find the

or you don't enjoy doing. So, find the fun in it. And and that's a big part of

fun in it. And and that's a big part of getting like say like girls into STEM is

getting like say like girls into STEM is you know take take away the whiteboard

you know take take away the whiteboard and you know the math you know theorems

and you know the math you know theorems and all that stuff and give them a

and all that stuff and give them a rocket to build. Um you know anybody any

rocket to build. Um you know anybody any kid you make it fun make it something

kid you make it fun make it something that they want to do. Make it something

that they want to do. Make it something practical and um something that's in the

practical and um something that's in the world that they can enjoy doing and

world that they can enjoy doing and actually you know get uh get a feeling

actually you know get uh get a feeling of accomplishment from. And it's amazing

of accomplishment from. And it's amazing what a kid can learn when it's presented

what a kid can learn when it's presented like that. Exactly.

like that. Exactly. Yeah. Uh you and I were talking there

Yeah. Uh you and I were talking there was something major happened in your

was something major happened in your life, you know, about your neck. Do you

life, you know, about your neck. Do you feel comfortable? You want to talk about

feel comfortable? You want to talk about Oh, yeah. You Yeah. My Yeah, that to me

Oh, yeah. You Yeah. My Yeah, that to me that is an incredible story and the

that is an incredible story and the comeback and what you have did with it.

comeback and what you have did with it. If you feel comfortable, you know, talk

If you feel comfortable, you know, talk about it for a few minutes, that'd be

about it for a few minutes, that'd be awesome. People need to hear that. The

awesome. People need to hear that. The comeback kit here. Come back kid. Um,

comeback kit here. Come back kid. Um, yeah. So, I think what I think what

yeah. So, I think what I think what you're alluding to is that I uh years

you're alluding to is that I uh years back I broke my neck. Broke your neck.

back I broke my neck. Broke your neck. Yes. Um, yes. And it was

Yes. Um, yes. And it was uh it was an incredibly significant, you

uh it was an incredibly significant, you know, wrench in the tire for me in my

know, wrench in the tire for me in my life. I was at United. Thank God they

life. I was at United. Thank God they would never have hired me if I had that

would never have hired me if I had that medical history to start with. I was at

medical history to start with. I was at United. I I broke my neck. I was in the

United. I I broke my neck. I was in the hospital for quite a long time. I had

hospital for quite a long time. I had multiple neurosurgeries. I had

multiple neurosurgeries. I had completely severed my um my atlas to my

completely severed my um my atlas to my axis cervical one to cervical 2. Uh

axis cervical one to cervical 2. Uh completely severed it. And the damage

completely severed it. And the damage was How did it happen? How did it

was How did it happen? How did it happen? Yeah. You know, honestly, it's

happen? Yeah. You know, honestly, it's it's I I'm not 100% sure. It was I I

it's I I'm not 100% sure. It was I I mentioned this briefly in my book. I was

mentioned this briefly in my book. I was a captain actually noticed there was

a captain actually noticed there was something sticking out of the back of my

something sticking out of the back of my neck and back then I was women were

neck and back then I was women were required to wear their hair up so you

required to wear their hair up so you could see the back of my neck and um

could see the back of my neck and um gosh it's it's a really long story but I

gosh it's it's a really long story but I was having different medical issues that

was having different medical issues that I was kind of covering up you know

I was kind of covering up you know because I was like a pilot and

because I was like a pilot and everything no nothing that was a big

everything no nothing that was a big deal but you know you don't complain

deal but you know you don't complain about anything back then and uh I end up

about anything back then and uh I end up going to a chiropractor who took x-rays

going to a chiropractor who took x-rays who then turned white and got very

who then turned white and got very nervous and immediately sent me to the

nervous and immediately sent me to the hospital cuz when he took X-rays, my

hospital cuz when he took X-rays, my skull wasn't attached to my vertebrae. I

skull wasn't attached to my vertebrae. I had an intern in terminal decapitation.

had an intern in terminal decapitation. It's a it's it's a very I could like

It's a it's it's a very I could like honestly write an entire book about it.

honestly write an entire book about it. But the bottom line is um suddenly my

But the bottom line is um suddenly my life came to a a total and complete

life came to a a total and complete stop. Um you know I discovered that um

stop. Um you know I discovered that um you can have all the problems in the

you can have all the problems in the world until you have a health problem

world until you have a health problem then you only have one problem in the

then you only have one problem in the world. Yeah that is the only problem you

world. Yeah that is the only problem you have and um it became my entire world.

have and um it became my entire world. If you don't have your health you don't

If you don't have your health you don't have anything you don't you know it's

have anything you don't you know it's interesting too you should say that it's

interesting too you should say that it's a very common expression and I used to

a very common expression and I used to think I knew what that meant. I used to

think I knew what that meant. I used to think that what good are all the riches

think that what good are all the riches in the world all the successes if you

in the world all the successes if you don't have your health right to enjoy it

don't have your health right to enjoy it but it's not actually what it means.

but it's not actually what it means. What it means, and I have experienced

What it means, and I have experienced this to to realize this, what it means

this to to realize this, what it means is that without your health, you have

is that without your health, you have nothing. Literally, you don't have a

nothing. Literally, you don't have a job. You don't have a boyfriend. You

job. You don't have a boyfriend. You don't have everybody disappears. You

don't have everybody disappears. You don't Every single thing you've worked

don't Every single thing you've worked your life for is gone. You can't even go

your life for is gone. You can't even go to your cousin's wedding. You can't go

to your cousin's wedding. You can't go to the family reunion. You have nothing

to the family reunion. You have nothing because you're in a hospital bed and you

because you're in a hospital bed and you have nothing. I couldn't brush my teeth.

have nothing. I couldn't brush my teeth. I couldn't scratch my nose. I couldn't

I couldn't scratch my nose. I couldn't do anything. I had nothing. And that's

do anything. I had nothing. And that's what it came down to. And

what it came down to. And um I didn't know if I would ever come

um I didn't know if I would ever come back from that. Um I opted voluntarily

back from that. Um I opted voluntarily to go through some extremely extremely

to go through some extremely extremely high-risisk neurosurgeries, brain

high-risisk neurosurgeries, brain surgery. And um I remember my one

surgery. And um I remember my one neurosurgeon did not recommend that I

neurosurgeon did not recommend that I proceed. And he was like, you know, he

proceed. And he was like, you know, he goes, we can do something less evasive

goes, we can do something less evasive and you will walk again and you will

and you will walk again and you will live your life. And he said, 'Why don't

live your life. And he said, 'Why don't you just like get married and have kids,

you just like get married and have kids, but I would not have it would not have

but I would not have it would not have been sufficient for me to get a first

been sufficient for me to get a first class medical back. That was a much much

class medical back. That was a much much bigger risk, a riskier surgery. Um, and

bigger risk, a riskier surgery. Um, and I just remember I said to him, you know,

I just remember I said to him, you know, doctor, I

doctor, I said, how long have you worked to become

said, how long have you worked to become a neurosurgeon? like how many years of

a neurosurgeon? like how many years of your life have you put into getting to

your life have you put into getting to where you are now? And obviously very

where you are now? And obviously very many years. And I said, well, I said,

many years. And I said, well, I said, I'm at United Airlines. I said, I have a

I'm at United Airlines. I said, I have a whole lifetime at that company ahead of

whole lifetime at that company ahead of me and I'm just starting out. I said,

me and I'm just starting out. I said, would you just say, oh, I hurt my hand.

would you just say, oh, I hurt my hand. I'm going to just just cover the bases

I'm going to just just cover the bases to make sure that my hand is not

to make sure that my hand is not amputated, but you're going to walk away

amputated, but you're going to walk away from your career. I said, "Or would you

from your career. I said, "Or would you go for it and take that risk to get your

go for it and take that risk to get your whole hand back so that you can continue

whole hand back so that you can continue being a neurosurgeon?" And he was like,

being a neurosurgeon?" And he was like, "Okay, point taken." And um the first

"Okay, point taken." And um the first two surgeries failed and I had a very

two surgeries failed and I had a very very long time of uh not knowing, you

very long time of uh not knowing, you know, if I was even going to have my

know, if I was even going to have my life back. But any case, the point of

life back. But any case, the point of the story is that in the end, I didn't

the story is that in the end, I didn't quit and I didn't give up and I was very

quit and I didn't give up and I was very very fortunate that I was able to

very fortunate that I was able to recover to the level that I was able to

recover to the level that I was able to recover and I was in the hospital for a

recover and I was in the hospital for a very long time with many other people

very long time with many other people who um were not able to recover. You

who um were not able to recover. You know, attitude is part of it and part of

know, attitude is part of it and part of it is just the cards that you're dealt.

it is just the cards that you're dealt. I remember the um remember my wonder

I remember the um remember my wonder surgeon said to me he said well he said

surgeon said to me he said well he said um he goes you should be dead he goes or

um he goes you should be dead he goes or worse than that you should be a

worse than that you should be a quadripollegic

quadripollegic and I thought worse than death would to

and I thought worse than death would to be paralyzed from the from the neck down

be paralyzed from the from the neck down and um that was almost me that was me

and um that was almost me that was me for a while and that was many people

for a while and that was many people that I became friends with you know

that I became friends with you know these things happen to totally

these things happen to totally completely normal people like me that

completely normal people like me that are injured you I very few people are

are injured you I very few people are born with something horrific like that

born with something horrific like that and they're just regular people that

and they're just regular people that were dealt a really difficult hand. So I

were dealt a really difficult hand. So I live every single day of my life

live every single day of my life incredibly grateful. incredibly grateful

incredibly grateful. incredibly grateful because I know I know, you know, I I

because I know I know, you know, I I shouldn't be here. And um it's hard to

shouldn't be here. And um it's hard to get me down

get me down because there's very little that can

because there's very little that can happen to you that is worse than what

happen to you that is worse than what was supposed to happen to me. And I I

was supposed to happen to me. And I I enjoy every minute of my life. Wow. I

enjoy every minute of my life. Wow. I love your attitude. I love your

love your attitude. I love your attitude. Resilience, not giving up. I'm

attitude. Resilience, not giving up. I'm lucky. I'm just I'm the luck I'm the

lucky. I'm just I'm the luck I'm the luckiest person I know. I really am. You

luckiest person I know. I really am. You know, people like, "Oh my god, like that

know, people like, "Oh my god, like that was horrible what happened to you." I'm

was horrible what happened to you." I'm like, "Are you kidding me?" Like, I am

like, "Are you kidding me?" Like, I am the luckiest person. How many people,

the luckiest person. How many people, you know, sever their skull from their

you know, sever their skull from their vertebrae and then like go on to have

vertebrae and then like go on to have the life that I ended up going on to

the life that I ended up going on to have. So, yeah, I'm very very lucky. I'm

have. So, yeah, I'm very very lucky. I'm not going to miss a minute of it. That's

not going to miss a minute of it. That's that's incredible. That's incredible

that's incredible. That's incredible story. I mean, that is so powerful. I

story. I mean, that is so powerful. I hope uh I'll make sure that at the

hope uh I'll make sure that at the beginning now of this podcast when I do

beginning now of this podcast when I do the intro I said you got to wait till

the intro I said you got to wait till the last couple of minutes of this video

the last couple of minutes of this video because the story you just told me told

because the story you just told me told me and told the rest of the world it

me and told the rest of the world it should be really really really

should be really really really inspiring. Uh tell us um you know you

inspiring. Uh tell us um you know you got a lot of followers everywhere and uh

got a lot of followers everywhere and uh it's been a wonderful journey that

it's been a wonderful journey that you've been on. You written a book and

you've been on. You written a book and uh you do speeches. Where can people

uh you do speeches. Where can people find you if they want to learn more

find you if they want to learn more about it? Do a little advertising for

about it? Do a little advertising for yourself. Advertising. Um well, here's

yourself. Advertising. Um well, here's my here's my book. You can Oh, yes.

my here's my book. You can Oh, yes. Well, I got it. When I if not if, but

Well, I got it. When I if not if, but when we meet up, I'll make sure uh you

when we meet up, I'll make sure uh you get it signed for me. I would love to

get it signed for me. I would love to have it your Well, ditto, my friend.

have it your Well, ditto, my friend. Sign a copy. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah, I uh

Sign a copy. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah, I uh you can obviously you can read my book.

you can obviously you can read my book. It's a you know, buy it on Amazon. It's

It's a you know, buy it on Amazon. It's available everywhere. I do book signings

available everywhere. I do book signings and weekends at the Smithsonian. I do

and weekends at the Smithsonian. I do them downtown National Mall and at

them downtown National Mall and at Uberhazi, which is the one on the other

Uberhazi, which is the one on the other side of the river here in Virginia. Um,

side of the river here in Virginia. Um, I'm gonna be speaking at Oshkosh and WAI

I'm gonna be speaking at Oshkosh and WAI and um, I've got a speaking thing coming

and um, I've got a speaking thing coming up at Purdue and um, I go I've been

up at Purdue and um, I go I've been traveling now recently to different EAA

traveling now recently to different EAA chapters and speaking. I don't know. I

chapters and speaking. I don't know. I just I love getting the word out, you

just I love getting the word out, you know, just you can do whatever you want

know, just you can do whatever you want to do and it really has nothing to do

to do and it really has nothing to do with being female. It's just as a person

with being female. It's just as a person like whatever you want to do like just

like whatever you want to do like just do it. You know what I mean? If you if

do it. You know what I mean? If you if you can, you can. If if you can do

you can, you can. If if you can do anything, you know, short of being in a

anything, you know, short of being in a hospital bed, honestly,

hospital bed, honestly, um if you're blessed enough that you can

um if you're blessed enough that you can go for something, then just go for it.

go for something, then just go for it. Cuz life, you know, at some point we're

Cuz life, you know, at some point we're all going to be dead. And um and life,

all going to be dead. And um and life, you know, they say life is short. Life

you know, they say life is short. Life is not short. Life is long. Life is

is not short. Life is long. Life is really, really long. I mean, life is

really, really long. I mean, life is make it to be. There's so many things

make it to be. There's so many things you can do in one lifetime. Like there

you can do in one lifetime. Like there are so many things you can do. Just keep

are so many things you can do. Just keep going for something new. just keep going

going for something new. just keep going and just keep going. And um Oh, I have a

and just keep going. And um Oh, I have a website. Uh yeah, actually if anyone's

website. Uh yeah, actually if anyone's looking for aviation training on my

looking for aviation training on my website, it's just laura

website, it's just laura savina747

savina747 uh.com. And if you go to that website, I

uh.com. And if you go to that website, I have on the last tab that you can fly,

have on the last tab that you can fly, I've got I think it's up to like $10

I've got I think it's up to like $10 million in aviation scholarships. I put

million in aviation scholarships. I put together I I I put together a bunch of

together I I I put together a bunch of links that have like all the connections

links that have like all the connections to like aviation scholarships. a lot of

to like aviation scholarships. a lot of really good information about flight

really good information about flight training, colleges that have aviation

training, colleges that have aviation majors, um, airlines, just it's kind of

majors, um, airlines, just it's kind of like I put everything all together on

like I put everything all together on one on one tab. So, if you have a kid or

one on one tab. So, if you have a kid or if you yourself, you know, are

if you yourself, you know, are interested in aviation or training or

interested in aviation or training or about young eagles or anything like

about young eagles or anything like that, go to that last tab,

that, go to that last tab, lauravino747.com, and the information's

lauravino747.com, and the information's that I'll put together for you there.

that I'll put together for you there. So, um, good some good stuff on there.

So, um, good some good stuff on there. Yeah, that's awesome. yourself out.

Yeah, that's awesome. yourself out. Well, Captain Savina, it was a pleasure

Well, Captain Savina, it was a pleasure to have you on board. It was a very

to have you on board. It was a very inspiring story. I loved every minute of

inspiring story. I loved every minute of it. I'm sure a lot of people around the

it. I'm sure a lot of people around the world gonna love it. And I'm sure there

world gonna love it. And I'm sure there going to be more stories and hopefully

going to be more stories and hopefully our path will cross one of these days in

our path will cross one of these days in one of these conferences and I get to

one of these conferences and I get to shake your hand.

shake your hand. Yes. I I'm sure that's going to happen.

Yes. I I'm sure that's going to happen. I'm sure that's going to happen. One of

I'm sure that's going to happen. One of these days I'll I'll sneak I'll be that

these days I'll I'll sneak I'll be that little person that sneaks up underneath

little person that sneaks up underneath you and like hello up there. Yeah.

you and like hello up there. Yeah. Oh, you're way too funny. Well, enjoy

Oh, you're way too funny. Well, enjoy the rest of the day. Thank you for

the rest of the day. Thank you for giving me a couple of hours of your

giving me a couple of hours of your time. It's really been a pleasure. Thank

time. It's really been a pleasure. Thank you so much. It has been. Thank you. And

you so much. It has been. Thank you. And thank you for inviting me on. I feel

thank you for inviting me on. I feel very honored. Absolutely. Absolutely. My

very honored. Absolutely. Absolutely. My pleasure. Take

care. Heat. [Music]

[Music] [Applause]

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] [Applause]

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Flying Through Limits: A Story of Grit, Growth, and Guts