This podcast episode features a debate on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, specifically focusing on the events of October 7th and the subsequent Israeli response, exploring differing perspectives on justifications, historical context, and the nature of the conflict itself.
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hello and welcome to the Bitcoin
standard podcast Our Guest today is
Constantine kissen Constantine is a
comedian podcaster commentator and
allaround internet Muk raker who hosts
the triggernometry podcast a few years
ago he hosted me on his podcast to
discuss my work on bitcoin a few weeks
ago him and I got into a cordial
conversation on Twitter on the Israeli
Palestinian conflict believe it or not
such a thing is possible and I asked him
to host him to discuss this in more
detail on my podcast and he graciously
agreed so Constantine thanks so much for
joining my pleasure good to be with you
all right so um in general I wanted to
discuss U the tweet that you mentioned
but in general I think there is an
interesting conversation to be had about
the discourse around the Palestinian
Israeli conflict and I think um you
offer a a good perspective of how a lot
of people in the west look at this conf
and how they view it and I thought it
might be good to um give you the
perspective of somebody who's actually
from there I grew up in ramal I GRE up I
grew up under Israeli occupation and so
um I have slightly different perspective
from the one that you're probably more
familiar with so I'd say let me just
begin with a general question um from
looking at your tweets and your
discussions of this topic it's pretty
clear that you are a Zionist you would
identify as a zionists so I guess my
first question would be why are you a
Zionist well I I don't know how you
reached that conclusion I suppose it
depends on what you mean by
Zionist yeah well for me asist is
somebody who believes that there should
be a state a Jewish state in Palestine
okay so uh I I don't know if you maybe
want to bring our audience up to speed
in terms of the conversation we had on
Twitter I think one of the things I was
I've always been very keen to emphasize
is that um anything I think or say about
it and I really haven't said very much
about this issue in public at all uh is
coming from a place of uh not really
being an expert and not really knowing
about the history of it that's not to
say I don't know about the history of it
uh but when I speak about it in public
I'm really talking from a trying to
think through from first principles what
people are saying about it now right so
um in terms of me being or not being a
Zionist I actually don't know that that
is my position uh this gets me into hot
water with a lot of people I don't know
that I believe there should be a Jewish
state in Palestine um should is an
interesting word I mean I think the uh
even uh people I have yet to hear an
argument about the creation of the state
of Israel that makes me 100% convinced
that he was all clean and white and pure
in every way and there was no there's
nothing nothing wrong there right so I
then again there will be people who
don't like me saying that but that is
the perspectives I've been exposed to so
it's messy however there is a state of
Israel now it it is home to about 10
million people and so unless we are
prepared to see those people be deported
or killed then currently I believe that
that state should continue to exist
because just like in any other situation
anywhere else in the world we don't go
back 70 80 years and go actually let's
redraw this map When Vladimir Putin
tries to do it we're all against it
right uh even though he has and but it
was what ad Hitler was doing too so the
claim that we should go back 70 years
and redo the borders of a country
because the way it was created wasn't
quite right uh I don't find particularly
persuasive but in terms of the
conversation you and I were having uh it
was much more about I think it was about
October 7th and what who should have
done what and how people should have
responded and that's really uh where for
me at least the focus is so no I have
never described myself as a zist and I
don't know that I would fit your
definition of what a scientist is either
okay well let me just say that um I
think this is this is a good um this is
a good uh place to um uh point out one
important misunderstanding which is that
if you say that you're not a Zionist or
that you oppose Zionist it doesn't mean
that you want the Jews who are in
Palestine to leave or to die there are
yes there are 10 million citizens of the
state of Israel but there are about 15
million people who live in uh historic
Palestine between the river and the Sea
and on that land about 7 and a half
million are Jewish and seven and a half
are not so they're all under Israeli
sovereignty they're all under Israeli
control whether it's in Gaza or the West
Bank or Israeli uh citizens and So
within Israel's citizens there's 2 and a
half million that are not Jewish and so
the 7 and a half million who are Jewish
and 7 and half who are not so it's half
the population that is that is Jewish
and so um it's I think far more accurate
to say that being a Zionist means you
want to kill and Deport the seven and a
half million people who are not Jewish
then it is to say that being an
anti-zionist means that you want to
deport and kill the Jews who live okay
well by that definition I'm sorry to
interrupt I I would really quibble even
much more than I already have with your
description of me as a Zionist I
certainly don't want to deport or kill
uh people who are not Jews in that area
why would you say that about me no I'm
not saying that about you but I would
say this is what the Zionist project has
been and this has been the case from the
1920s it was very clear to Zionist
leaders that um you know initially the
understanding in Europe for people who
had never been to Palestine was that
this is a land for land with no people
which we should take because we are a
people with no land and then once people
started moving then they realized well
that's not accurate and famously one um
one one um one member I think it was of
the Zionist organization traveled to
Palestine and he wrote back saying the
bride is already married there are
people already here that our plan
doesn't make sense and then by the 1920s
it became very clear to a lot of these
leaders that there needs to be something
done about these people and either we're
going to have to fight them or we're
going to have to kick them out or we're
going to have to convince their
neighbors to take them and that's been
essentially the driver of the conflict
from day one the driver of the conflict
is the fact that when the Zionist
project really got off the ground and
that's thanks to you British people 1917
lord balfor gave the um balfor
declaration to Lord Rothchild because
Britain was broke in World War I and
they needed money and they wanted the
Americans to come in and so they wanted
to uh in order to entice the Americans
to come in they thought they could
entice the zionists in America by
offering Palestine and so at that point
about three to 5% of the population of
Palestine was actually Jewish and you
know that there had always been a a
Jewish population in Palestine since the
Muslim conquest of Palestine in 19 in
637 so when the Romans took over they
expelled the Jews when the Muslims
kicked out the Roman leadership they did
not kick out the native population this
is a common misconception it's not like
Arabs came from Arabia and kicked out
the people who were in Palestine they
the people who were in Palestine stayed
there they were mostly Christian at that
time the Muslims let the Jews come back
and they were able to live in Palestine
from 637 up until
1947 and 1948 and during that time they
could own property and they could live
there so there was never an issue of we
need to get rid of the Jews or we need
to get rid of other people there was
always understood that Muslims
Christians and Jews had lived in that
land and they all had their property
rights and under the Turkish system
there was something called the Millet
system where every um every group had
its own civil law determined by its own
religion and its own religious
authorities so you can see why that
would be a problem why people like me
might not be too excited about the idea
that a 5% minority in your country which
is I guess probably around the same I
I'm not sure about the numbers but I
guess this is about the percentage of
Muslims in Britain at this point maybe
5% of Britain is Muslim so imagine how
would feel like if somebody said yeah
let's make Britain into a national
Homeland for Muslims and now we're going
to start encouraging Muslim migration
into Britain and also we're going to
take over land from people who are not
Muslim and build institutions of the
state that are um geared toward making
all this land owned by Muslims and then
we're going to get rid of all the rest
of the population so what I'm saying is
that uh the problem with the support for
Israel as the default position and that
this will get us into your Tweet and our
discussion is that it just ignores all
of that stuff and ignores the role that
the Western Powers have had in enforcing
this and in making this reality come
about and then likes to pretend that
history starts always at the point when
any Palestinian and fights back and then
that's portrayed as just a completely
crazy insane violent uh
unjustified monstrous barbaric act that
uh justifies any kind of response and I
think this is really what it comes down
to so if you look at your Tweet which
started this discussion you're saying
the thing very few people will openly
say is that once you become a parent if
someone kidnaps your child and home for
months on end in captivity and give you
give exactly zero FS about how exactly
they're returned and the more of her
captors are killed the happier you'd be that
that
is a pretty brave defense of Hamas I
would say on October 7th no that's a
funny Point except that's not what Hamas
did uh and this is I think the crucial
distinction that never gets picked up uh
in any of these conversations so first
of all uh the history I come back to my
point originally which is uh you are
undoubtedly more knowledgeable about the
history of of that region um and I not
really interested in in going over that
because as I say right up front it's not
something that I know about so I'm
talking about conversations from first
principles now if we're talking from
first principles I I still want to come
back to this idea that you you
introduced me as someone from whose
public discussions it is clear that I'm
a Zionist and then you define Zionism as
being willing to deport and murder
people which I'm I'm not offended but I
don't think that's an accurate
representation of my beliefs um
so I think that's an important thing for
me to maybe just point out but in terms
of your quip that it's a great defense
of Hamas uh I actually have said
repeatedly that I thought that if
October 7th was a Hamas attack on
Israeli military installations and
border patrols and an attempt to uh
attack the Israeli the IDF for example I
don't think the world would have
responded the way that the world and I
don't think the Israelis would have
responded the way they have and I
certainly wouldn't see what happened on
October 7th uh as what it was which is a
horrific terrorist attack I would see it
as you described perhaps as an act of
resistance but slaughtering a thousand
civilians at least uh raping women uh
and um if you compare I mean I I don't
know how many how many thousand people
died on 911 I think it was about 2,000 right
right
what happened to Israel uh and we should
probably look it up to get the exact um
per capita comparison right but it was
it was like having a 911 happen in a
large number of American cities all at
once um right innocent people being
targeted and murdered by terrorists uh I
think it's perfectly understandable that
and taken hostages by the way I think
it's perfectly understandable that
people who are the victims of that kind
of atrocity targeted specifically
civilians as we saw in the United States
case which reacted in ways that I didn't
necessarily approve of on some occasions
like the war in Iraq nonetheless you
would expect a country that was attacked
in it way in this way you would expect
people uh who are civilians who were
attacked in this way uh to respond in
ways that are going to be very harsh and
that I think is why what's happening is
happening uh I didn't see the uh the
attacks on October 7th as an attempt to
get back pal Palestinian hostages from
Israeli jails that didn't seem to me to
be what was happening and so uh I don't
think the comparison
works well um so a few problems first of
all just in general and and and this is
something that many Palestinians and
Israelis do which is the the the
suffering per capita ratio which I think
is I find it abhorent because I think uh
you don't become less of a human being
because you're American and there's 300
million Americans whereas if you're
Palestinian and there's only 10 million
Palestinians then one dead Palestinian
is worth 30 Dead uh yeah but it's a it's
a pretty reasonable point that I'm
making I mean if you think about let's
say you have a um let's say I don't know
if you have kids I have one son right if
my son was to die in a tragic accident
that that at at the level of my family
that is a disaster and a horrific thing
to happen uh at the level of Britain no
one gives a [ __ ] right so the the
comparative point is is not that one
person's life doesn't matter matter or
matters more or whatever the comparative
point is if you want to understand the
psychological impact of a terrorist
atrocity you have to understand the
scale of that atrocity relative to the
population of the country if a 100
people were killed in a terrorist attack
in London as has happened that is not
the same as 100 people being killed in
my town right at the level of my town
that analysis would be it would be a
huge overwhelming event whereas if it
happened in London it would be awful
very sad but it's not nearly the same
thing so I I think I think that's a fair
point sa yeah well I mean I'm saying
that because uh not because I'm trying
to minimize any kind of targeting of
civilians I think they're all tragedies
and any civilian death is um something
that I do not accept and I do not think
is legitimate however I'll say the um I
think the
uh the well I don't think this is a fact
the first thing that Hamas did after um
the October 7 is say that we are
offering those hostages in exchange for
releasing Palestinian prisoners and in
fact one of their um one one of their
military squadrons had actually
attempted to get into ashalon to free
prisoners from a prison but they
couldn't get there so this was exactly
about freeing uh prisoners no no no no
sorry again I'm sorry to interrupt but
this is again a false equivalence right
if you kidnap my wife and you hold her
in your house and I come and rescue her
from your house and I happen to to kill
you in the process I've got no problem
with that right if if you K if if you
kidnap my wife in order to get something
from me that that's completely that's a
completely different situation right so
uh the the idea that they took
completely innocent people hostage
having murdered a thousand people and
raped people on the way in order to free
free the Palestinian prisoners is is not
an appropriate equivalence at all uh
October 7th was a terrorist attack whose
purpose first and foremost was to
Massacre civilians and to terrorize the
Israelis it wasn't about rescuing people
and even if it was it was done in a way
that I considered to be completely
illegitimate yeah well this is um so
first of all let me just clarify I
obviously disagree with any targeting of
civilians but I think uh this this is
one of those things where uh the the the
the initial hysteria and this is very
similar to co you know when Co first
happened people just completely freaked
out and then people have just been
conditioned by that fear that um media
puts into you when you know you see
people falling in China and then
everybody got freaked out for years from
covid because they saw that video of
that guy falling in China and they saw
that uh World Health Organization Muppet
saying that the r zero is seven or
whatever at that point and so then that
fear gets in and then the rational brain
shuts off and then the animal brain is
just thinking about flight or fight so
in what in in terms of what I've said
where would you identify my rational
brain shutting off first of all there's
uh all the evidence that has been
presented for the idea that there has
been any kind of rape has all been shown
to be presented by people who are
complete Liars like the UN yes the UN
has so the UN are complete liars about
the rape no the UN published a report in
which they looked at a bunch of people
and a bunch of sources and these sources
and the people who were behind it
they've gone behind them and they've
seen that it's all garbage every single
person who's behind this so there's this
organization called zakat which is uh
first which is a bunch of First
Responders they're responsible for a lot
of the horror stories and all of these
horror stories turned out to be false
and the people behind them turned out to
be complete liars and it was all about
exaggerating this so first of all just
for clarity how many how many PE how
many people do you think were raped on
October 7th approximately zero
approximately nobody was raped pretty
much yeah there was that would be pretty
much the first time ever in the history
of war that thousands of men invaded a
different territory slaughtering
civilians taking female hostages and
none of them that that's literally never
happened in human history but these
Hamas Fighters that were so moral and
pure they didn't touch any women well
two Reon two things to keep in mind
first of all you'd have any kind of
evidence of it did you have some kind of
substantive evidence for it be other
than all of these proven Liars who just
repeating stories that are clearly lying
there the story about somebody cutting
off a tit and throwing it and playing
with the titt that isn't what I said I
didn't say anything about hang on hang
on hang on you've been interrupting me
let me finish it's because we're getting
stuck on points where I think it's
important to zoom in we're getting stuck
because you won't let me finish and get
to the point that you're making so
you're moving on to another one so first
of all the key thing to keep in mind is
that the point for Hamas and the win
there was not to go in rape and murder
the point was to get as many hostages as
they could possibly get and yes I agree
with you that it's not okay to take
civilians as hostages however I don't
you objecting to the 9,000 Palestinian
civilians that are in Israeli jines and
I don't see I object to anyone who is
innocent of crimes which many of those
people you're talking about are not many
of them stabbed people killed people Etc
and yet thousand of them haven't been
put on trial they're not administrative
detention I I sorry this time I wasn't
finished however I am in favor of the
rule of law in due process and those
people should be given uh due process
and to the extent that they're innocent
of any crimes they of course should be
immediately Rel Le so uh you don't hear
me object to it because you haven't
asked me if I object to it I object to
people uh being deprived of the civil
liberties yes but I've seen your Twitter
and you obviously never get outraged
about anything Israel does you only get
outraged about the things that you're
told the Palestinians are doing now to
get back to hang hang on let me finish
so there was the whole uh 40 burned
babies which is another one of these is
that something I've tweeted about um I
don't know you've tweeted about a lot it
isn't so let's not let's not talk about
that cuz it's not something point is
there was a whole bunch of atrocity
propaganda that was being given out to
media that formed this crazy reaction
where people's minds Hamas is just this
incredible Indescribable evil in
just hold on a second hold on a second
if you brought me on your podcast to
debunk the things that you believe the
mainstream media have got wrong about
this conflict you don't need me here for
that right you can just do that yourself
but if you want to talk to me let's talk
only about the things that you and I
have said I've never said anything about
burned babies I disagree with you about
the idea that there was Zero rapes on
October 7th um and I also disagree with
the insinuation that you appear to be
making that Hamas are not evil and
barbaric they clearly are they are
murdering terrorists who slaughtered th
a thousand people plus who wounded up to
about 7,000 people who deliberately
targeted civilians deliberately took
civilians hostage so let's talk about if
you want to talk with me I'm delighted
that we're having this conversation but
let's talk about the things that I'm
saying and the things that you saying
instead of the things that other people
have said okay yes and I'm letting you
finish every single time you're
interrupting me but I'd like to be able
to finish once that's well the reason is
I keep addressing your point and you
keep bringing things in from the outside
that I haven't said that's the
difference no the point is again going
back to your Slaughter and rape the
other thing other than the rape is the
idea that uh they went around murdering
civilians but the vast majority of these
civilians that were murdered they were
burned now if a bunch of Fighters who
are carrying a bunch of guns don't and
are trying to get as many hostages as
they can and get back don't have the
time to sit and tie people up and burn
them down it's not easy to burn people
in a house if you've got a gun on you
you tie people up you start burning them
they find them as soon as the fire comes
near them they can break free and they
can get out why were all those people at
the festival a lot of the Dead civilians
were dead because they were targeted by
the Israeli Army because the Israeli
Army has the Hannibal directive which is
that we'd rather kill our own people
than let our enemies take them as
hostages because we don't want to be put
in a position where we need to negotiate
with terrorists and that's what drove
this so then you could say that you
could see very clearly all the people
that were dead were well maybe not all
but a lot of the civilians that were
dead were dead because they were burned
because they were attacked by weapons
that clearly Hamas doesn't have so you
have that picture from the Nova Festival
where you had all these cars that were
burned there was no way that Hamas can
go around burning cars in there and
again the point that I'm trying to get
to is I'm not defending Hamas I think it
was completely completely inexcusable
what they did and I don't believe in the
targeting of
civilians but I think the key point that
I'm trying to get to is that whatever
atrocity propaganda you've swallowed
about what Hamas did on that day is
still not 1% of what the IDF does
regularly to Palestinians what settlers
do to Palestinians in the West Bank and
that's the thing that you ignore that's
the thing that's been going on for 80
years and of course when I bring up the
past when we talk about what the
Israelis did in 1947 in 1948 you'll say
well this is too old and this is too it
was too far away but it's something that
goes on until today it's something that
continues to go on and yet we see this
over and over and over again with the
kind of modal Zionist NPC which is that
these things don't register or if they
do register if confronted with it you'll
just say well I condemn that and then
that's as if you know that makes them
completely irrelevant to the real world
so you just condemn it and then you move
on and then you just completely missed
the idea of how this thing actually
affects the real
world okay uh what would you like me to
address in terms of that well why is it
that then you what go back to your
original tweet
you said that you think that it is
justifiable for people to do whatever it
takes in order to free their hostages or
free no that isn't what I said no no
that's not what I said what is it that
you said let's bring up the I didn't
said it's justifiable for for people to
do whatever it takes that's not what I
said I give zero [ __ ] about how exactly they're
they're
returned yes and that only applies if
it's the Israeli hostages it doesn't
apply if it's Hamas host no that no
that's not what I said now for a quick
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more confidently and now back to the
Bitcoin standard podcast I just said you
in the course of this conversation
safety and this is a problem we had
exactly the same conversation with
Bassam Yousef who actually like with you
I actually really like right we had a
great conversation when you were in
trigonometry uh I'm happy to have this
discussion with you but like you he was
arguing with things that I'd never said
uh because he spent his entire time
reacting to things on the internet that
other people were saying I said to you
several things in the course of this
conversation which I think preclude me
from being described as design stand PC
or whatever it is that you just
suggested number one I said to you that
my reading of the history of this
conflict is that the creation of the
state of Israel wasn't exactly purer
than pure right so at no point have I
suggested that uh there isn't a problem
there and that this conflict is entirely
spirous because uh the evil barbaric
Palestinians are just by virtue of their
evilness and barbarism are doing this
right I also said to you that had the
October 7th attack been an attack by
Hamas troops on Israeli troops or on
Israeli military installations or on
Israeli prisons in order to free their
people from there while some people of
course many people in Israel would
nonetheless treat this as an attack on
their country quite understandably I
think both the world and Israel and I
would have reacted very differently
right so the issue is that you say of
course targeting civilians is wrong but
and that's something we of course agree
on and the the problem is that October
7th was not in any way an attempt to
redress the wrongs committed by the IDF
it it doesn't it doesn't compensate for
them it doesn't fix them it doesn't
solve them it's simply an act of Terror
designed to brutalize and murder and
enslave the civilian population of those
areas so if you are asking me about that
you have to start by acknowledging that
that is a terrorist attack now how would
any country this is what I'm asking you
respond to a terrorist attack in exactly
the way that Israel has done so uh you
can tell me about the plight of the
Palestinian people and I can agree with
you I can say to you look um for the
sake of argument uh the you know the
Palestinians are under occupation and
Israel and the IDF are terrible and they
go in there and mow the lawn and all of
these other things that I've heard from
many many people and I can agree with on
all of that that does not justify a
terrorist attack on his civilians and it
never will and that's the difficulty
that we're having because people who are
arguing from your position including you
in this conversation are trying to
present October 7th as some attempt to
offset the evils done by the idef as you
perceive them and I'm saying to you
there is no connection between the two
no amount of Israeli brutality justifies
the massacre of civilians if Jews during
World War II had risen up in the wars so
ghetto just went around raping German
women women and slaughtering German
civilians that would have been wrong too
when the Soviets the people who who were
my ancestors raped their way through uh
Eastern Germany on the way to Berlin
that was wrong I am one of the people
who's actually been quite prominent in
raising Soviet War atrocities even
though I think that war needed to be won
right so and that isn't by the way the
same as uh you know the AAL bombardment
of Germany or dropping the bombs on on
on Japan which was absolutely right and
necessary for reasons right so this
difference between targeting civilians
uh gratuitously for violence uh
gratuitously for violence and Military
necessity and this is where I think
we're getting
stuck yeah we're getting stuck because
you're unable to see the very
transparent hypocrisy in your position
that explain it to me I I I'll try to
understand explain it to me your that
tweet said I give exactly zero FS about
how they returned now that was in the
context of the fact when they freed I
think three or four hostages uh this was
June 9 they freed four hostages and in
order to free those four hostages about
300 Palestinian civilians were killed
200 to 300 Palestinian civilians were
killed aerial bombardment and special
Union military forces came in and they
knew that they were going to have to
Massacre a lot of civilians in order to
get out and they did it how is that in
any way different from what Hamas did on
October 7 just because you refused to
accept let me finish hang on just
because you refus to accept the
distinction that no no no Hamas can't
possibly be justified I'm trying to tell
you this is just the atrocity propaganda
kicking in because in your mind it's
just oh it's rape it's murder it's
unjustifiable nothing that Israel does
could possibly justify this well no
Hamas also wanted to free thousands of
Palestinian prisoners Israel wanted to
free hundreds of Israeli prisoners and
Israel killed hundreds of civilians
Hamas killed hundreds of civilians
probably most of them were killed by
Israel but even assuming accepting the
idea that they killed civilians why is
it that in your mind this murder of
civilians is just because you're freeing
hostages but that murder of civilians is
not justified for for the reason that
I've already explained to you repeatedly
which is if you take my wife hostage and
I come to your house and you try to
prevent me from rescuing her I'm going
to shoot you in the head and I'm going
to feel great about it if you come to my
house and kill my family because of
something I've done that's a completely
different thing do you understand the
difference no it's exactly the same
thing you don't so you feel there's no
difference between Constantine said
something rude to me or did something
bad to me I'm going to come to his house
and I'm going to murder his family no no
no you are missing the point that it's
the same thing they've taken hostages
it's not the same thing yes they both
taken hostages it's absolutely not the
same thing why are the Palestinian
prisoners not worthy of being rescued
punishing people who are not involved in
the thing the civilians who were
murdered by Hamas on October 7th had
nothing to do with the atrocities that
you say are being committed against
Palestinians right and the civilians
murder by Israel had nothing to do
with ex except they were killed in an
attempt to rescue hostages how is that
difference the same thing that Hamas
says I'm not trying to defend Hamas let
me be clear here because Hamas killed
civilians in order to kill civilians the
Israeli troops killed civilians in order
to rescue hostages no the difference
Hamas took civilians hostages and most
likely the Israelis killed their own
civilians but even accepting the fact
that Hamas killed civilians Israel
Israel killed at least 50,000 civilians
over the last nine months they killed at
least let's clarify that one point how
many civilians do you think Hamas killed
on October 7th cuz you keep saying
you're against targeting civilians but
it also sounds like you don't think they
killed any civilian I don't I haven't
seen convincing evidence that they have
I think the majority of the civilian
deaths were from fire from friendly fire
it was the hand the directive so how
many how many would you say that I would
love to see an official investigation
into this but it's very telling that
Israel won't have an investigation into
this because how many would you say that
they've killed it's a simple question I
I don't know I haven't done an
investigation to it but I'd like to see
one and I think it's very telling that
they won't do one no no no but that's
not answering my question right that
girl whose dead body we saw being driven
off in the back of a truck was she
killed by Israeli
forces no no no she was a hostage they
taken hostage so that's one that's one
that we can say was definitely killed by
Hamas okay how many more do you think
were probably killed by Hamas I'm
telling you I don't know I I could make
up a number is it 10 is it 100 is it a
thousand how many I don't know I'd like
to see an investigation into this but
you know what I do know like you're
absolutely certain about Hamas figures
about how many Palestinians have been
killed right yeah Absol I'm not certain
about their figures I know what is going
on in Gaza and I know that there is no
way that you could destroy an entire
city of two million people and not kill
at least tens of thousands of people
been tens of thousands of death and I
know you know I know because I know
people in Gaza I know people who know
people in Gaza and I know just how many
of the people they know have been dead I
think what's been reported is I'm not
disputing the lots of people have been
killed also but I am disputing that
Hamas didn't kill civilians Hamas killed
a lot of civilians but Israel has killed
a lot more civilians and this is what
you no but that the comparative game
there is irrelevant to me we killed a
lot more German civilians than German
killed our civilians in World War II I
think that's perfectly Justified this is
this is what I mean when I say Zionist
NPC we can kill as many of them as we
can as we want because that's Justified
because we are reacting because we are
just because we are trying to get our
hostages back nothing they do is
Justified it's not it only works in your
you have no hold on safe are you even
listening to what I'm saying you keep
saying the phrase nothing they do is
Justified I just said to you three times
now three times if Hamas had attacked
Israeli military installations and IDF
troops and killed IDF troops and Israeli
military installations were destroyed
that to me would be a completely
different thing so it's not that nothing
they do Justified any crime by Hamas
justifies any kind of reaction by Israel
and nothing that Israel does can be a
problem which is why you never see any
kind of criticism coming from people
like you towards anything that Israel
does SA you have you have to actually
listen to what I'm saying otherwise it's
impossible to have listening I'm just
pointing out the hypocrisy of saying
that it's okay for Israel to kill ,000
people to rescue their hostages it's not
okay for Hamas to kill anybody I'm
trying to tell you it's wrong for both
I'm trying to tell you it's wrong for
both no no but but you see you keep
missing deliberately I think at this
point because you're a smart guy you
keep missing the point that I'm making
which is that there's a big difference
between attempting to rescue hostages or
attempting to kill
terrorists and simply targeting
civilians for the purpose of targeting
civilians right there's a big difference
between those two principles one of
those things is called War the other of
those things is called terrorism and
there's a big difference between the two
strapping a bomb to your chest and
getting on a bus is very different to
going to war and attempting to rescue
hostages in the process of which
civilians get killed they're different
activities entirely there's a different
moral calculus and it works entirely
differently that's the difference I see
so you're not a fan of terrorism and you
think terrorism is not justifiable
right you don't think targeting
civilians is justifiable correct and
does that include Palestinian
civilians it includes any civilians
anywhere including by the way I for
example right I'm Russian my wife is
Ukrainian I have lots of family in both
countries uh I have been very
outspokenly Pro Ukrainian throughout the
entire conflict I do not support killing
Russian civilians in retaliation to what
Russia is doing in Ukraine nor do I
support obviously Russia killing
Ukrainian civilians right so it's not
difficult to support people being able
to wage war in situations where they
have to wage war without also then
condemning the massacring of civilians
that is deliberate and purposeful
targeting for the sake of killing
civilians that is not the same as
collateral damage and conflict they're
different things no but here's the thing
the problem is that you think any kind
of death Meed out by Israel is
collateral damage because your mind
anything I don't I don't think that yes
which is why you don't see when when
when when Israel goes and murders
Palestinians when an Israeli terrorist
goes into a Palestinian Village and
shoots people as happens every day these
days in the West Bank every single day
pograms of settlers surrounded by
soldiers protecting them going into
Palestinian Villages burning people's
homes burning their cars shooting people
this happens every day you don't say
anything about it you don't condemn it
you don't think it's a problem you don't
if you want me to condemn it I will
happily look
I you got to let me respond you got to
let me respond go right you made the
point you got to let me respond so as I
said to you I don't talk about this
issue publicly because it's not an era
of expertise of mine if anyone asks me
about the West Bank I can tell you what
my understanding of the West Bank is I
don't like a lot of the things that are
being done in the West Bank I don't like
a lot of the things that the settlers
are doing and I do not support burning
people's homes and massacring people and
killing people and pushing them out of
where wherever they live so when you say
you don't condemn it if you ask my
opinion I will give it to you I don't
support some of the things that are
being done there yes this is this is a
great answer for me because it's exactly
my uh problem with this entire idiotic
fetish that pro-israel people have about
condemn condemn condemn which I find
idiotic because it's meaningless because
I'm not asking you to condemn things and
I'm not asking and and I hate it when
people ask me to condemn things because
I don't condemn anybody I don't condemn
Israel I don't condemn any Authority
because I'm who am I I'm in no position
I'm not their mom to condemn them I'm
not their benefactor and so it's
meaningless to say what is who who's
condemning things what I'm talking about
you just said you just said to me you
don't condemn it and that's what I
responded to but I do condemn it if I'm
asked to yes exactly but what I'm trying
to illustrate is that if you look at
your tweets if you look at your position
on this and whenever it's brought up you
bring up the death of Israeli civilians
and then use it as justification for
anything Israel does so you look at all
of your discussion no I don't I don't
use it justification how they return so
Israel can do whatever it wants and then
you don't care about all the targeting
of Palestinian civilians that takes
place and you never bring up the fact
that anything that the Palestinians do
in return is justifiable notice I'm not
saying that it is let me be clear here
I'm I'm perfectly consistent let me be
clear I'm perfectly consistent I think
everybody's wrong to Target civilians
and I think targeting civilians does not
justify any kind of reaction so I'm not
okay to go and Target Israeli civilians
because they targeted Palestinian
civilians you are the one who's
swallowed the a Zionist NPC propaganda
Hook Line and Sinker and don't even see
the distinction here wherein no matter
what Israel does it doesn't matter
you're not going out there posting
videos of the horrific things that Tak
that are taking place in the West Bank
of the horrific things that Israel's
been doing to Palestinians for eight
years of the land theft of the mass
murder of the terrorist attacks the
enormous number of terrorist attacks I
mean menahan the Israeli Prime Minister
boasted about the fact that he invented
modern terrorism because the first
civilian bomb the first bomb to Target
civilians the first people to think
about the idea of let's put bombs in
civilians was by the zionists in
Palestine against Palestinian civilians
so you in your mind you don't see
anything wrong with that ever and that's
why for me it's not about asking you to
condemn it it's about looking at where your
your
energy goes and your energy is
constantly going Hamas are evil they're
targeting civilians and therefore
everything that Israel does is Justified
and therefore anybody who's critical of
Israel is an awful person and we're
going to go after them and we're going
to criticize them wow on the other hand
whereas if Israel is I've been up to a
lot of stuff I wasn't even aware I was
doing safe in you've really quite
painted quite a picture there going
after people posting videos I've never
posted any videos from the Israeli
Palestinian conflict ever so why why you
criticizing me for not about the
Israelis do to Target civilians you only
talk about what the Palestinians do to
Target to I really don't comment on this
issue very much at all I'm sorry I don't
comment on this issue very much at all
I've never gone after people as you
suggest for their opinions I've always
said you what's that lady's name you
call her Dei Barbie yeah I called her
Dei Barbie for accusing me of things
that I took very personally which is
accusing me of being unfair and and non-
impartial when I was fair and impartial
as anyone who watches that debate can
see I don't give a [ __ ] about her
opinion about Israel and Palestine uh
there was another guy on that panel with
whom I had absolutely no issue who was
arguing for the same thing I know lots
and lots of people who have your
particular view on this issue I respect
them and get on with them just as I do
with people who are pro Israel I have
never targeted anybody for having a
different opinion to me on this issue
and I never would because I see it's
very complicated and I think people are
right to think whatever they think about
it if that's what they think so uh again
I think you're arguing with M these sort
of miraculous ghosts in your head and
not with me um can we talk about what I
believe or what you believe or what
you'd like to discuss with me because I
think that would be a lot more
productive yeah well I mean just to wrap
this up I think the point that I'm
making okay so we can't fair enough no
no we can we're going to we're going to
move into that it's just again the point
is it's very clear your en is always
going there and I think the point that
I'm trying to get how is that clear
because I've looked at your tweets for
months and I've seen your discussions
what have I other than that particular
one what have I said about the conflict
that you're that you feel justifies your
position denouncing the criminality of
Hamas and justifying the actions of
Israel and denouncing people who are uh
critical of Israel for not understanding
the fact that Israel needs to who whom
specifically have I denounced for their
position on is never pointing out that
Palestinians have a right to defend
themselves you make quite a lot of
points there so let's just pause whom
specifically have I denounced for their
position on
Israel I don't remember at this point
but you okay so no evidence for that
claim what about your other claims what
is your evidence for the other claims
well there I just shared with you one
tweet the one that we were discussing
you were saying that it's okay for
Israel to do whatever it wants that
tweet applies to Israel it applies to
Palestine applies to everywhere I am
sure the people of Gaza if their sons
are in an Israeli prison
agree with what I said right the problem
that I explain to you is what happened
on October 7th was not an attempt to get
their children back it was an attempt to
kill civilians as we've discussed now we
seem to we seem to disagree you seem to
think uh Hamas didn't kill any civilians
except that one woman we saw obviously
and they treated everyone with kindness
and respect I'm sure um you you keep
throwing out lots of claims about me
that aren't factually based and so it
seems to me that you've brought me on to
argue with people in your head and with
me right no I've brought you on because
you specifically said that anything that
Israel does to try and get there hasag
just is something that you don't care
about when you've never showed that and
I'd like to and the reason and the other
most expensive issue that we that we
need to move on to is the idea that if
you think about targeting civilians it's
very clear I think for anybody who's
been paying attention over the last nine
months Israel's goal is not to get Hamas
or even to get the hostages Israel's
goal is to make Gaza unin habitable and
this is something that is completely
unable to register in the mind of the
Zionist NPC because you have the Israeli
Finance Minister not some nobody the
Israeli Finance Minister who's saying if
we're talking about the war plans for
post-war Gaza we need to talk about a
Gaza we need to plan for a Gaza that has
100 to 200,000 people this is a place
that has 2.3 million people what does it
mean to say we need to bring the
population down to 0.1 or2 million
that's 10% or 5% so he's saying we need
to get rid of 90 to 95% of the people
this is the Finance Minister he's the
most influential politician in Israel at
this point him and smich and Ben V might
be the most important because they hold
the Netanyahu Coalition together they're
out there saying doesn't matter what
happens with the hostages and it doesn't
matter what happens with Hamas what
matters is we need to get rid of the
Palestinian people from Gaza okay so you
have to understand this is what they're
saying and it doesn't register because
Western media doesn't like to emphasize
this and of course you are conditioned
to just turn a blind eye to it and just
say well I it safy what do you think of
that we literally just released on
trigonometry a week ago an interview
with PS Morgan in which he made the
exact point that you just
made so when you say you don't cover
this or you don't know about this or
whatever that's garbage right so again
you're talking to people in your head no
I'm talking to you I know who I'm
talking to and I and I am saying to you
that on my show which has a million
subscribers on YouTube we just broadcast
an interview in which the point that you
just made was made by a prominent guest
on our show not
you we brought him on to make the
[ __ ] point yeah so the point is
you're out there it doesn't register in
your analysis
as listen your mind there's nothing that
Israel does that is unjustified as many
civilians as they kill as many terrorist
what is your evidence for that statement
what's your evidence for the
statement what what's your evidence for
the idea that I think anything Israel
does is Justified I just pointed out I
just told you I don't support many of
the things that are happening in the
West Bank that would be one example
you're constantly you're you're able to
see that the actions of Hamas justify
the any reactions of Israel said I I
haven't said that they justify any
reactions of Israel that's what you said in
in
that okay let me explain to you the twe
you look I know it's difficult for you
to just break out of this kind of
conditioning where you don't see the
asymmetry here the asymmetry here is
that we have a government that has
trillions of billions of dollars being
handed to it by the US by all over the
world by weapons from all over the world
and it is actively out there saying we
want to get rid of these millions of
Palestinians we have sm's plan says he
he's been very clear about this he
released this plan 2017 he says we need
to have one state from The River To The
Sea a Jewish State and everybody who's
not Jewish needs to understand they have
three options they can either fight and
they can either die or they can leave or
they can accept that they will need to
live under Israeli subjugated to
Israelis this is what he says this is
very clearly what he says now you are
completely incapable of internalizing
what this means for the human beings who
live there and that's why what's your
evidence for the idea that I am
incapable of internalizing that because
you keep talking about the travesties of
October 7 as if they are just this in in
in incomparable evil that ex that that
has never existed before when
Palestinians expen incomparable evil
that's never existed before when did I
say that you didn't say that but you
only talk about that because you you
know you you don't talk about anything
else going on in the West Bank you don't
go on and saying well you know what you
that I barely ever talk about this
conflict yes yeah so you only talk about
it when the Zionist NPCs are activated
to go out and spread the talking points
of hey it's okay for us to kill half a
million gazin in the next few months
because they targeted a bunch of our
civilians so there is nothing that we
can do that is not okay said that
either you did say it you said that
anything that can be done to justify to
get the hostages back is Justified but
you don't apply
I think the key point is can I just
repeat to you you seem to have some
trouble with both listening and reading
comprehension let me repeat to you what
my tweet said my tweet said when you
become a
parent you think like this right my
point was that it's very difficult to
expect people whose children have been
kidnapped to think about this issue in
anything other than the way that I
described I did not say that killing as
as many people in Gaza as possible
should be Israeli State policy nor do I
think that why don't you actually ask me
my opinions about things instead of
putting words in my mouth or arguing
with people you imagine in your head
because this is what Israel is doing
which you are defending under the
pretext of they are doing this to Res
not defending it yes you are you're not
out Israel is committing a genocide they
want to get rid of I don't believe
Israel is committing a genocide that's
for sure
exactly Min because I have a brain and I
know what words mean no it's because you
don't have a brain it's because you're
an NPC you have the actual Finance
Minister saying we're going to get rid
of two million people say we want to get
rid of two million people of the
population and you don't think that is a
genocide what's the definition of
genocide you don't know you I know I'm
asking you what is the definition of
genocide the extermination of a people
or a group of it and or their
elimination from a piece of land this is
exactly what moving people from a piece
of land is
genocide murdering them and kicking them
out of their land and murdering kicking
them out of separate things cuz once
you've murdered them there's not much
Point kicking them out so what's your
definition you murder someone you kick
out the rest and then you've left with a
piece of land that doesn't have the
original population that's how it works
the definition of of genocide is the
deliberate targeting of an ethnic group
on its ethnic basis and murdering them
in order to destroy that ethnic group
and nationhood I don't believe that's
what's happen happening in Gaza that's
my opinion if that was what was
happening in Gaza in my opinion I
wouldn't defend it and I wouldn't
support it why is it not you have the
actual Finance Minister saying we want
to get rid of the if we want to get rid
of two million people out of this if we
in the war if we can kill and expel two
million people then we will have the
Gaza that we want after this how looking
at what so I'm aware that some of the
people in the cabinet are saying things
of that nature some of their language
has been genocidal it's not the same as
Israel committing genocide cu the way
not these are the people that are in
power they have the money and the way
you would the way you would assess
whether something was happening would be
by looking on the ground at what's
happening not what people are saying and
when we look at what's happening on the
ground Israel has available to it as you
well know Weaponry of a much greater
scale that could commit genocide in Gaza
and it's not using it precisely because
they're attempting to limit civilian
casualties as much as you as they can
not least because sa not because
necessarily they love Palestinians and
care about their Liv so much but because
of course every Palestinian casualty is
being used in the international media
against Israel and the one thing we've
yet to talk about and I think this
behooves you to bring up to your
audience that perhaps they are not aware
of thanks to your analysis is why so
many people are being killed in
Gaza why is that because in Ukraine
where my family are hiding from Russian
bombs you know where they do it they
hide in tunnels and Metro stations and
undergrounds and tubes it's not
happening in Gaza for some reason
despite the fact that they have the most
sophisticated tunnel infrastructure in
the world interesting and what's also
interesting is unlike in Ukraine where
president zalinsky was offered an
opportunity to escape the moment the war
started and decided to stay and Lead his
people the people who caused this
conflict or this flare up of the
conflict on October 7th the people who
are in charge of uh of Hamas seem to be
living in five-star hotels in Qatar
fascinating is it possible uh because if
you Google is Hamas using human Shields
you can immediately find it to channel
four fact Che it'll be one of the first
search results you'll find in which one
of the leaders of Hamas says in 2014
that this is a brave tactic that we use
to stop Israeli missiles with our
chests the reason so many people are
dying in Gaza is that it benefits Hamas
to see them be killed and that's why
they're putting them Harm's Way
deliberately and that is something
perhaps we should add to this
conversation now for a quick word from our
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Bitcoin St a podcast uh let me say of
course I I I I think that's completely
indefensible uh what Hamas does and I'm
no way going to defend it okay so then
stop using ham stop using Palestinian
casualty numbers as if it's the fault of
Israel it's the fault of the people who
put them In Harm's Way no no no no no no
no no it's the fault of the people who
have been ethnically cleansing them for
80 years which is again something that
your brain cannot process because your
condition not to think about this look
this is something that Israelis have
been doing since the 1940s and they've
done it in the 60s and they've done it
recently and this is something that has
become mainstream you and you said well
Israel could have more bombs no actually
they can't you know the reality of the
matter is Israel has nuclear weapons
yeah they can't use nuclear weapons on
Gaza why not they can't it would kill
Israelis it would kill a lot of Israelis
they just cannot do that use small
tactical nuclear weapons if they wanted
to they could carpet bomb the entire
place which they haven't done no they
have that's exactly what they've been
doing they have carpet bombed the entire
Place they've
bombs on it than anything else but I
think the key thing to keep in mind here
is this within a couple of weeks of the
beginning of the war Israeli generals
generals were very clear about the fact
that look if the US stops giving us
weapons we are done we can't shoot
anymore the amount of artillery and the
amount of uh air power that has been
deployed by Israel over this uh conflict
is just beyond what a country of 10
million people can sustain it's it's an
enormous amount of weapons I mean
they're dropping millions of dollars
worth of bombs on houses that are just
shanties basically this is and and
they're out there to try and get and
Destroy every single Shanty every single
building not only that but the and so
the reason they do this the reason they
can't just use more power is because if
they do use more power if they do use
any kind of chemical weapons or
something like that that just results in
Mass casualties at once it's not going
to play well with foreign people who
want to believe the idea that no Israel
is out there trying to minimize
casualties so the real limitation here
is how can it's not a question of how do
we get Hamas without killing as many
civilians the question is how do we kill
as many civilians as possible while
making it look like we're not out there
to kill civilians this is the mentality
that drives the Israeli leadership which
of course you choose to ignore this is
what they're saying this is not that I
choose to ignore it I disagree you
choose to ignore it no no no they're
clearly saying don't CH to ignore it I
disagree of isra said there are no
Innocents in Gaza nothing not even a
baby is innocent I disagree with that
yeah of course you disagree but you
still support everything that he does
and that's the point you're an NC I
don't support everything that he does I
don't think I'm given you any evidence
to suggest that I support everything
Israel is doing all I said is I don't
believe that what is happening in Gaza
meets the definition of genocide that's
all I've said of course because again
that's the propaganda line that
everybody told it's because it's not in
my view B what I believe to be happen in
Gaza because in my view what's happening
in Gaza does not match that definition
it's if I said there are no Israel no
there are no Innocents in Israel do you
think that that would be genocidal
language it would be I I I just said to
you a few seconds ago that some Israeli
ministers have used language that I
would consider genocidal so I agree
these are not people on the street they
are the people in charge of the weapon
people that are loing are the coalition
government I know yeah and they are the
ones that are out there who are in power
to act on thisand what I'm saying to you
is I judge whether a genocide is
happening not on what some people have
said but on what's actually happening
and my view based on the things I read
and the things that I know is that
what's happening in Gaza is not genocide
that's not the same as ignoring things
that you keep claiming I'm ignoring I
just happen to disagree with you do you
understand the difference between those
two things no I think you don't
understand the difference between the
fact that the when a person is in a
position of authority and is actually
acting out a genocide in the Finance
Minister is not in charge of the
military you know that right the Finance
Minister is part of the wartime cabinet
yes but he's not in charge of the
military you know that right yes but the
people in charge the Finance Minister
said something doesn't mean that that's
what is happening yeah but the defense
minister and all the military people
have also said equally horrible things
they've all said similar things no they
hav animal unless you have a specific
quote that I'm not aware of please
produce it well go read the icj report
which collects all of these reports what is the the president of Israel said
is the the president of Israel said there are no innocent civilians the
there are no innocent civilians the Minister of Defense said we are fighting
Minister of Defense said we are fighting Human animals we're not going to give
Human animals we're not going to give them water we're not going I think Hamas
them water we're not going I think Hamas are human animals yeah no but he he was
are human animals yeah no but he he was referring to the civilians that are not
referring to the civilians that are not going to get water they're not going to
going to get water they're not going to get food they're not going to get
get food they're not going to get medicine they're not going to get
medicine they're not going to get anything that was what he did he didn't
anything that was what he did he didn't cut off the electricity from from he cut
cut off the electricity from from he cut it off from everybody the point is this
it off from everybody the point is this cut it off from Hamas that doesn't make
cut it off from Hamas that doesn't make sense this is what every Army does what
sense this is what every Army does what do you think the Americans did in fua
do you think the Americans did in fua you think they just let the terrorists
you think they just let the terrorists have light and food and water as they
have light and food and water as they attack them what do you think how do you
attack them what do you think how do you think war is waged
think war is waged safe this is what every military in the
safe this is what every military in the world does when they go into a city to
world does when they go into a city to try and take out the threat said we need
try and take out the threat said we need to we need to reduce the population of
to we need to reduce the population of fua by
fua by 90% no that only happens in Israel it's
90% no that only happens in Israel it's the only openly genocidal regime in the
the only openly genocidal regime in the world are other genocides but there are
world are other genocides but there are no other genocides in which people can
no other genocides in which people can brazenly say that we're being genocidal
brazenly say that we're being genocidal and then have Zionist NPCs like you all
and then have Zionist NPCs like you all over the world do PR for them to help
over the world do PR for them to help continue and I think the point you're
continue and I think the point you're missing is that it is Americans who keep
missing is that it is Americans who keep this thing going because it is their
this thing going because it is their funding that keeps this going and in
funding that keeps this going and in order for that funding to continue
order for that funding to continue people like you are essential for
people like you are essential for continuing to whitewash all of this
continuing to whitewash all of this stuff I don't live in America I'm not an
stuff I don't live in America I'm not an American citizen so I'm incredibly not
American citizen so I'm incredibly not British are also providing weapons and
British are also providing weapons and they're also providing
they're also providing all we've had a good hour I'm glad we
all we've had a good hour I'm glad we had this conversation I'm getting a
had this conversation I'm getting a little bit tired of you calling me a
little bit tired of you calling me a Zionist NPC with no evidence whatsoever
Zionist NPC with no evidence whatsoever so why don't we wrap up here I provide a
so why don't we wrap up here I provide a lot of provide a lot of evidence okay
lot of provide a lot of evidence okay okay well yeah I mean I think I I've uh
okay well yeah I mean I think I I've uh the point that I'm trying to make the
the point that I'm trying to make the point I was trying to get to the
point I was trying to get to the conclusion of this is that if you really
conclusion of this is that if you really try to look at this objectively which I
try to look at this objectively which I know you're incapable of But ultimately
know you're incapable of But ultimately you why you bring me on I'm curious why
you why you bring me on I'm curious why did you bring me on your show if you
did you bring me on your show if you think I'm incapable of looking you made
think I'm incapable of looking you made your name because you've made your name
your name because you've made your name talking about the absurdity of identity
talking about the absurdity of identity politics and the absurdity of people
politics and the absurdity of people that are just going on about racism and
that are just going on about racism and accusing people of all of those things
accusing people of all of those things and what I'm trying to tell you is that
and what I'm trying to tell you is that if you look at when it comes to Israel
if you look at when it comes to Israel You're just another social justice
You're just another social justice Warrior identity politics how so Warrior
Warrior identity politics how so Warrior because here we are when Israel does
because here we are when Israel does anything it's well they're trying to
anything it's well they're trying to rescue their hostages even if the
rescue their hostages even if the government how that anything to do are
government how that anything to do are you saying that I believe that because I
you saying that I believe that because I I my grandfather was Jewish is that what
I my grandfather was Jewish is that what you're trying to say I'm saying that
you're trying to say I'm saying that it's a matter of you're saying I'm just
it's a matter of you're saying I'm just how is this identity politics assessing
how is this identity politics assessing a conflict in the Middle East Bas on the
a conflict in the Middle East Bas on the evidence because one group can get away
evidence because one group can get away with murder in your book and the other
with murder in your book and the other group cannot because in your B so if I
group cannot because in your B so if I support
support ukrainians if I support ukrainians in
ukrainians if I support ukrainians in their fight against the Russians that's
their fight against the Russians that's identity
identity politics no okay so why is this conflict
politics no okay so why is this conflict different
different what is your evidence that this has
what is your evidence that this has anything to do with identity for me and
anything to do with identity for me and not to do with the facts as I perceive
not to do with the facts as I perceive them I may be wrong about the facts
them I may be wrong about the facts that's very possible but what is your
that's very possible but what is your evidence that it's based on identity and
evidence that it's based on identity and not my incorrect opinions based on the
not my incorrect opinions based on the things that I'm reading because a what
things that I'm reading because a what we're seeing in Palestine is not a war
we're seeing in Palestine is not a war like in Russia and in Ukraine it's a
like in Russia and in Ukraine it's a genocide where a military is trying to
genocide where a military is trying to get rid of the it was a terrorist group
get rid of the it was a terrorist group that attacked Israel and Israel is
that attacked Israel and Israel is retaliating and attempting to
retaliating and attempting to government been trying to get rid of a
government been trying to get rid of a population for 80 years and now they fin
population for 80 years and now they fin what does this have to do with identity
what does this have to do with identity politics and me it has to do with it
politics and me it has to do with it because you look at you the way that you
because you look at you the way that you discussed this and it's very clear it's
discussed this and it's very clear it's just one group one group can get away
just one group one group can get away with what they want they can kill to
with what they want they can kill to rescue their hostages they can kill
rescue their hostages they can kill hundreds of civilians to rescue their
hundreds of civilians to rescue their hostages and they can kill tens of
hostages and they can kill tens of thousands of civilians on their attempt
thousands of civilians on their attempt to but how is that identity politics
to but how is that identity politics because one identity can do it and one
because one identity can do it and one ident cannot that's why so if I support
ident cannot that's why so if I support ukrainians in a way that I don't support
ukrainians in a way that I don't support Russians that's also identity politics
Russians that's also identity politics no because that's a war that's not a
no because that's a war that's not a genocide it's not the bunch of I see
genocide it's not the bunch of I see this as a war too
this as a war too population exactly because you want to
population exactly because you want to keep seeing it as a war because it's all
keep seeing it as a war because it's all about continuing with your bias which is
about continuing with your bias which is that everything Israel does is defense
that everything Israel does is defense everything Israel does is understandable
everything Israel does is understandable everything palestin even if that was so
everything palestin even if that was so that doesn't explain the identity point
that doesn't explain the identity point of view I'm very curious about this
of view I'm very curious about this safety and this is very interesting tell
safety and this is very interesting tell me more about how this is identity
me more about how this is identity politics well I'm glad you're curious
politics well I'm glad you're curious about it because think about it it is
about it because think about it it is going to make a lot more sense when you
going to make a lot more sense when you start thinking about it okay so how is
start thinking about it okay so how is this identity politics it's identity
this identity politics it's identity politics I would just explain to you why
politics I would just explain to you why explain is carrying out a genocide where
explain is carrying out a genocide where they're killing out tens of thousands of
they're killing out tens of thousands of civilians and you think everything that
civilians and you think everything that they do is Justified I don't and and
they do is Justified I don't and and nothing that the other group does is I
nothing that the other group does is I don't think that either I just told you
don't think that either I just told you repeatedly four times now if Hamas had
repeatedly four times now if Hamas had attacked Israeli military installations
attacked Israeli military installations I would have a lot less of a problem
I would have a lot less of a problem with it I just said that so it's not
with it I just said that so it's not that I think one side is always right
that I think one side is always right and the other side is always wrong it's
and the other side is always wrong it's that my assessment of what I see based
that my assessment of what I see based on first principle thinking is that one
on first principle thinking is that one side is doing one thing and the other
side is doing one thing and the other side is doing something completely
side is doing something completely different I don't I'm not happy about
different I don't I'm not happy about the fact that there's a conflict but I
the fact that there's a conflict but I don't think this is anything to do in my
don't think this is anything to do in my thinking for me anything to do with
thinking for me anything to do with identity and yet you bring that up and
identity and yet you bring that up and that's what makes me very curious uh and
that's what makes me very curious uh and I I'm really still not entirely sure
I I'm really still not entirely sure what you meant by that I'd like you to
what you meant by that I'd like you to clarify it that would be great yeah i'
clarify it that would be great yeah i' i' tell you think about what we talked
i' tell you think about what we talked about today think about the fact that
about today think about the fact that think about the fact that Israel's
think about the fact that Israel's destroyed every single piece of critical
destroyed every single piece of critical infrastructure in Gaza every single
infrastructure in Gaza every single water uh pump every single uh
water uh pump every single uh electricity plant every single
electricity plant every single University every school every hospital
University every school every hospital and most of these buildings they didn't
and most of these buildings they didn't destroy them uh well not most but a lot
destroy them uh well not most but a lot of these buildings they didn't destroy
of these buildings they didn't destroy them with aerial bombardment they had
them with aerial bombardment they had already occupied the territory they'd go
already occupied the territory they'd go in they'd put in bombs and they'd bring
in they'd put in bombs and they'd bring the and they destroy them because
the and they destroy them because because most buildings are booby trapped
because most buildings are booby trapped by Hamas yeah no after they'd go into
by Hamas yeah no after they'd go into the building and they'd conquer it and
the building and they'd conquer it and there's no Hamas there then they booby
there's no Hamas there then they booby tra they're boob you know what booby
tra they're boob you know what booby traps
traps are this is what Russia does in Ukraine
are this is what Russia does in Ukraine they go into hospitals and blow them up
they go into hospitals and blow them up because ukrainians leave booby trap
because ukrainians leave booby trap sometimes this is what happens in war no
sometimes this is what happens in war no how is this anything to do with identity
how is this anything to do with identity I'm trying to get to it the point is
I'm trying to get to it the point is this to go back to the point of genocide
this to go back to the point of genocide we've we we we we have a systematic
we've we we we we have a systematic attempt to destroy every single thing
attempt to destroy every single thing that makes Gaza livable they've
that makes Gaza livable they've destroyed the sewage they've destroyed
destroyed the sewage they've destroyed all of the infrastructure they've
all of the infrastructure they've destroyed all the hospitals all the
destroyed all the hospitals all the water desc all the water treatment
water desc all the water treatment plants all the power plants and they
plants all the power plants and they didn't destroy them okay where some of
didn't destroy them okay where some of them they claimed well we destroyed this
them they claimed well we destroyed this because there were Hamas there but for
because there were Hamas there but for the majority of them it was Destruction
the majority of them it was Destruction for the sake of Destruction why because
for the sake of Destruction why because they want to make Gaza unlivable they've
they want to make Gaza unlivable they've salted the Earth they've destroyed the
salted the Earth they've destroyed the farming capability Gaza is not going to
farming capability Gaza is not going to be inhabitable for another God knows how
be inhabitable for another God knows how many years and that is a plan that is
many years and that is a plan that is something that has been actively done
something that has been actively done accept that everything you said is true
accept that everything you said is true exactly how is me assessing what's
exactly how is me assessing what's happening in this particular conflict
happening in this particular conflict based on the facts and information and
based on the facts and information and my beliefs and my understanding of
my beliefs and my understanding of History Etc how is that anything to do
History Etc how is that anything to do with identity unless you're suggesting
with identity unless you're suggesting that my identity means that I have a
that my identity means that I have a particular view of this conflict yeah
particular view of this conflict yeah your identity gives you a bias towards
your identity gives you a bias towards this conflict and that makes what what
this conflict and that makes what what is the identity element that gives me a
is the identity element that gives me a bias I don't know what your identity is
bias I don't know what your identity is I don't even know
I don't even know you really this is fascinating other
you really this is fascinating other people which aspect of my identity gives
people which aspect of my identity gives me a bias about this conflict please
me a bias about this conflict please tell me doesn't matter the point is
tell me doesn't matter the point is you're bias it doesn't matter you are
you're bias it doesn't matter you are suggesting you said yourself that
suggesting you said yourself that because I have made a name for
because I have made a name for challenging the stupidity of identity
challenging the stupidity of identity politics that's where I'm a hypocrite on
politics that's where I'm a hypocrite on this issue and I'm saying to you can you
this issue and I'm saying to you can you please explain to me as you've said my
please explain to me as you've said my identity makes me biased which aspect of
identity makes me biased which aspect of my identity makes me biased on this
my identity makes me biased on this issue the aspect that makes you look at
issue the aspect that makes you look at the destruction of homes and lives so
the destruction of homes and lives so what aspect is that which part of my
what aspect is that which part of my identities makes me
identities makes me I don't care I look at the output I care
I don't care I look at the output I care no no no you said it you said it and I'm
no no no you said it you said it and I'm going to make sure I get out of you what
going to make sure I get out of you what you meant so which aspect of my identity
you meant so which aspect of my identity makes me biased about this issue the
makes me biased about this issue the aspect that makes you look at
aspect that makes you look at Palestinians suffering which aspect is
Palestinians suffering which aspect is that aspect is that come on it matter I
that aspect is that come on it matter I just I hope you just say it because
just I hope you just say it because it'll be a lot easier because I'm going
it'll be a lot easier because I'm going to keep asking you yeah what is it which
to keep asking you yeah what is it which aspect of my is is it is it the fact
aspect of my is is it is it the fact that I'm Russian
that I'm Russian I don't know I don't even know is it the
I don't know I don't even know is it the fact that I was raised in Britain
fact that I was raised in Britain probably is the fact that that my my dad
probably is the fact that that my my dad was half Greek is that what it which
was half Greek is that what it which aspect of my identity safety the fact
aspect of my identity safety the fact that looks at Israel as being the good
that looks at Israel as being the good guy where is that related to my identity
guy where is that related to my identity how how do you draw a line from my wrong
how how do you draw a line from my wrong opinions about this conflict and my
opinions about this conflict and my identity I'll tell you why here's why I
identity I'll tell you why here's why I am Palestinian so I definitely have an
am Palestinian so I definitely have an identity issue with this politics oh
identity issue with this politics oh with this conflict but am able to having
with this conflict but am able to having seen the absurdity of identity politics
seen the absurdity of identity politics for many years and having seen this
for many years and having seen this incredibly destructive idea that my team
incredibly destructive idea that my team is always right because we are good and
is always right because we are good and other team is always bad because they
other team is always bad because they are bad I'm able to step back and say
are bad I'm able to step back and say it's wrong for anybody to Target a
it's wrong for anybody to Target a civilian and it's wrong when these guys
civilian and it's wrong when these guys do it and it's wrong when the other team
do it and it's wrong when the other team well you don't think Hamas targeted
well you don't think Hamas targeted civilian so that's a separation but car
civilian so that's a separation but car on no I did say they did Target
on no I did say they did Target civilians they took them hostages and I
civilians they took them hostages and I don't think that is acceptable I said
don't think that is acceptable I said that the beginning you did say that yeah
that the beginning you did say that yeah yeah you on the other hand are unable to
yeah you on the other hand are unable to see this equivalency and the reason for
see this equivalency and the reason for that is just identity bias it's just
that is just identity bias it's just this is what which identity the West
this is what which identity the West which identity I don't know and I don't
which identity I don't know and I don't care it's just no no no you can't say
care it's just no no no you can't say it's identity bias and then say I don't
it's identity bias and then say I don't know you tell me what is it about you
know you tell me what is it about you that makes you think that killing 2 and
that makes you think that killing 2 and a half million people King them out of
a half million people King them out of their homes and the Finance Minister
their homes and the Finance Minister saying we need to kick those people out
saying we need to kick those people out and we need to destroy them in your mind
and we need to destroy them in your mind is not an issue but hamas's attack never
is not an issue but hamas's attack never said it's not an issue I never said it's
said it's not an issue I never said it's not why is it that hamas's attack on
not why is it that hamas's attack on October 7 justifies the Israeli response
October 7 justifies the Israeli response and which you think is not genocidal
and which you think is not genocidal because any country in the world would
because any country in the world would want to kill the
want to kill the people pal whereas Israel's attacks on
people pal whereas Israel's attacks on Palestinians are never justification for
Palestinians are never justification for Palestinians targeting so what I can
Palestinians targeting so what I can tell you since you asked difference here
tell you since you asked difference here so I can tell you since to us that
so I can tell you since to us that clearly I think it's fair to say you and
clearly I think it's fair to say you and I disagree about this conflict and we
I disagree about this conflict and we see it differently uh and I've attempted
see it differently uh and I've attempted over the course of the last hour and 8
over the course of the last hour and 8 minutes to explain to you why I view it
minutes to explain to you why I view it as I view it why I believe what I
as I view it why I believe what I believe none of that has anything to do
believe none of that has anything to do with my identity in my opinion I am not
with my identity in my opinion I am not predisposed towards Israel or Palestine
predisposed towards Israel or Palestine because of my identity I am looking at
because of my identity I am looking at this issue as much as any human being
this issue as much as any human being can from a perspective of first
can from a perspective of first principles my understanding of History
principles my understanding of History the reading I've done about the subject
the reading I've done about the subject the people I've spoken to about this Etc
the people I've spoken to about this Etc both Pro Palestinian and pro-israel we
both Pro Palestinian and pro-israel we have had Norman felstein on our show
have had Norman felstein on our show we've had Bassam YF on our show I'm very
we've had Bassam YF on our show I'm very happy to have had this conversation with
happy to have had this conversation with you although it start to started to get
you although it start to started to get a little bit boring towards the end
a little bit boring towards the end however none of this has anything to do
however none of this has anything to do with identity politics and yet you seem
with identity politics and yet you seem adamant that this somehow is something
adamant that this somehow is something to do with my identity and that's the
to do with my identity and that's the bit that makes me very curious I'm not
bit that makes me very curious I'm not saying it's necessarily about your
saying it's necessarily about your identity you did say that you that you
identity you did say that you that you did you can go back and watch it youty
did you can go back and watch it youty but the point is it's something about
but the point is it's something about the identities of the people that are in
the identities of the people that are in the conflict that some people I don't
the conflict that some people I don't give a [ __ ] about the identities of the
give a [ __ ] about the identities of the people in the conflict I think you do I
people in the conflict I think you do I think it's very obvious that you do some
think it's very obvious that you do some people can are justified in killing
people can are justified in killing civilians to free their hostages and
civilians to free their hostages and other people are not justified in
other people are not justified in killing civilians to free their hostages
killing civilians to free their hostages some people can say hey we want to kill
some people can say hey we want to kill two million people to kick them out of
two million people to kick them out of their homes and you'll say Well that's
their homes and you'll say Well that's genocidal but Hamas is genocidal they
genocidal but Hamas is genocidal they want to get rid of this because 30 years
want to get rid of this because 30 years ago I'm I'm glad you raised that point
ago I'm I'm glad you raised that point at the end because now everybody can see
at the end because now everybody can see why this conversation has gone the way
why this conversation has gone the way it's gone from from from the beginning
it's gone from from from the beginning because you seem to think that some
because you seem to think that some aspect of my ident identity means that I
aspect of my ident identity means that I think the way I think um and that's a
think the way I think um and that's a very uh prejudicial way of looking at it
very uh prejudicial way of looking at it it's sad that you think this uh but it
it's sad that you think this uh but it is what it is uh from my perspective uh
is what it is uh from my perspective uh I am someone who's against identity
I am someone who's against identity politics I try to judge all the issues
politics I try to judge all the issues on the merits as much as I can now I'm
on the merits as much as I can now I'm of course not perfect and I sometimes uh
of course not perfect and I sometimes uh am not able to see things objectively
am not able to see things objectively none of us are uh but I really do my
none of us are uh but I really do my very best not to allow my identity uh to
very best not to allow my identity uh to influence things uh you clearly don't
influence things uh you clearly don't agree with me and don't believe me
agree with me and don't believe me that's absolutely fine but I think
that's absolutely fine but I think that's a very uh ignorant and
that's a very uh ignorant and prejudicial way of looking at it and and
prejudicial way of looking at it and and it's a it's a Pity that that's how you
it's a it's a Pity that that's how you think about it well I just leave you to
think about it well I just leave you to think more about it than think about the
think more about it than think about the things that I said about what Israel is
things that I said about what Israel is doing to the population of Palestine and
doing to the population of Palestine and think about has nothing to do with my
think about has nothing to do with my identity no no no it does it does it
identity no no no it does it does it does maybe not necessarily your identity
does maybe not necessarily your identity but the identity of the people involved
but the identity of the people involved in the conflict so I'd urge you to think
in the conflict so I'd urge you to think about what would you be saying if it if
about what would you be saying if it if the shoe was on the other foot if it was
the shoe was on the other foot if it was Hamas out there saying we need to get
Hamas out there saying we need to get rid of the population of Israel and kill
rid of the population of Israel and kill as many of them as possible I'm sure
as many of them as possible I'm sure Hamas are dead against killing the
Hamas are dead against killing the population of Israel they're big peace
population of Israel they're big peace lovers hamash mhm so then why don't you
lovers hamash mhm so then why don't you treat the Israelis when they say those
treat the Israelis when they say those things seriously whereas with Hamas
things seriously whereas with Hamas because their Charter that they had 30
because their Charter that they had 30 years ago which they've gotten rid of
years ago which they've gotten rid of that used to say those things and you're
that used to say those things and you're still holding on to it but if you
still holding on to it but if you actually listen to what say how I
actually listen to what say how I holding have I raed have I said anything
holding have I raed have I said anything about their Charter safet you just said
about their Charter safet you just said they want to be murdering they want to
they want to be murdering they want to be I know I said that they're very
be I know I said that they're very peaceful people who who want nothing but
peaceful people who who want nothing but to live obviously meul peacefully in uh
to live obviously meul peacefully in uh in in uh hand in hand with the Israelis
in in uh hand in hand with the Israelis as we all know um all right well listen
as we all know um all right well listen it's been uh it's been interesting uh
it's been uh it's been interesting uh let's wrap up here cuz I've got stuff to
let's wrap up here cuz I've got stuff to do we budgeted an hour all right cheers
do we budgeted an hour all right cheers take care the point I tried to make in
take care the point I tried to make in this debate which got derailed several
this debate which got derailed several times because he interrupted me many
times because he interrupted me many times is this the same stupid logic he
times is this the same stupid logic he uses to justify Israel's genocide in
uses to justify Israel's genocide in Gaza would also justify October 7 he
Gaza would also justify October 7 he justifies Israel's genocide in Gaza
justifies Israel's genocide in Gaza because one it is a response to October
because one it is a response to October 7 and two it is an attempt to rescue
7 and two it is an attempt to rescue hostages but on one anything Hamas did
hostages but on one anything Hamas did on October 7 Israel has done far worse
on October 7 Israel has done far worse for 80 years and on two Israel holds
for 80 years and on two Israel holds Palestinian hostages and Hamas like
Palestinian hostages and Hamas like Israel was trying to free them Israel
Israel was trying to free them Israel has been deliberately killing civilians
has been deliberately killing civilians for more than 80 years Israelis have
for more than 80 years Israelis have carried out thousands of pograms against
carried out thousands of pograms against Palestinian civilians since before
Palestinian civilians since before Israel was created Israeli militias have
Israel was created Israeli militias have ethnically cleansed hundreds of entire
ethnically cleansed hundreds of entire Palestinian Villages of their
Palestinian Villages of their inhabitants in unprovoked premeditated
inhabitants in unprovoked premeditated murder and expulsion meticulously
murder and expulsion meticulously documented by Palestinian and Israeli
documented by Palestinian and Israeli historians this was expulsion purely for
historians this was expulsion purely for eth no religious reasons these people
eth no religious reasons these people had to be killed or expelled because
had to be killed or expelled because they were from the wrong religion Israel
they were from the wrong religion Israel invented modern terrorism as mahim ban
invented modern terrorism as mahim ban bragged the Israeli state has stolen
bragged the Israeli state has stolen most of the land of Palestine from its
most of the land of Palestine from its Palestinian owners over the past 80
Palestinian owners over the past 80 years Israel has demolished more than
years Israel has demolished more than 140,000 houses under the flimsiest of
140,000 houses under the flimsiest of pretexts how can October 7 justify
pretexts how can October 7 justify Israel's current genocide in Gaza if
Israel's current genocide in Gaza if these 80 years of October 7s don't
these 80 years of October 7s don't justify October 7 of course the only
justify October 7 of course the only consistent position is that neither
consistent position is that neither justifies either Israel holds around
justifies either Israel holds around 10,000 Palestinian prisoners 3,500 of
10,000 Palestinian prisoners 3,500 of whom are on administrative detention
whom are on administrative detention with no trial they can stay in
with no trial they can stay in administrative detention for years and
administrative detention for years and they are being subjected to the most
they are being subjected to the most horrific acts of torture and even rape
horrific acts of torture and even rape which is now confirmed as footage has
which is now confirmed as footage has been released and one of the
been released and one of the perpetrators has spoken about it openly
perpetrators has spoken about it openly and unapologetically on TV the Israeli
and unapologetically on TV the Israeli government did a sham investigation and
government did a sham investigation and in a recent cabinet meeting they made it
in a recent cabinet meeting they made it clear that they are doing this sham
clear that they are doing this sham investigation purely for the
investigation purely for the international criminal court
international criminal court investigation into Israel many Israeli
investigation into Israel many Israeli politicians broke into the Detention
politicians broke into the Detention Center to release the soldiers detained
Center to release the soldiers detained because they were filmed raping a
because they were filmed raping a detainee the fact of rape is not only
detainee the fact of rape is not only accepted but there is a Witch Hunt
accepted but there is a Witch Hunt against the media that published it and
against the media that published it and the politicians pretending to be trying
the politicians pretending to be trying to investigate it this is not just
to investigate it this is not just something that happened after October 7
something that happened after October 7 this kind of brutal torture has been
this kind of brutal torture has been going on for decades and it is extremely
going on for decades and it is extremely well documented from Palestinian and
well documented from Palestinian and Israelis and is up there with the worst
Israelis and is up there with the worst gags in history Hamas explicitly asked
gags in history Hamas explicitly asked for the release of prisoners from the
for the release of prisoners from the time they first abducted Israeli
time they first abducted Israeli hostages if Israel can destroy the lives
hostages if Israel can destroy the lives of 2.3 million people to rescue hostages
of 2.3 million people to rescue hostages why doesn't the same apply to
why doesn't the same apply to Palestinians why is it okay for Israel
Palestinians why is it okay for Israel to murder tens of thousands of civilians
to murder tens of thousands of civilians to rescue the hostages but not okay for
to rescue the hostages but not okay for Palestinians to abduct Israeli civilians
Palestinians to abduct Israeli civilians to release their hostages of course the
to release their hostages of course the only coherent position is that neither
only coherent position is that neither is
is Justified I thought this episode was a
Justified I thought this episode was a great win on how the modern NPC mind has
great win on how the modern NPC mind has been programmed to cheer for genocide
been programmed to cheer for genocide nothing Israel does justifies targeting
nothing Israel does justifies targeting any Israeli civilians but anything any
any Israeli civilians but anything any Palestinian does justifies murdering all
Palestinian does justifies murdering all Palestinians if the Israeli government
Palestinians if the Israeli government murders civilians it's legitimate
murders civilians it's legitimate self-defense because it is a retaliation
self-defense because it is a retaliation if any Palestinian murders civilians it
if any Palestinian murders civilians it is Terrorism for the sake of terrorism
is Terrorism for the sake of terrorism and nothing Israel did could ever
and nothing Israel did could ever justify it the NPC cannot compute
justify it the NPC cannot compute anything that happened before October 7
anything that happened before October 7 because the NPCs have not had
because the NPCs have not had pre-october 7 data as part of their
pre-october 7 data as part of their programming the NPC is also programmed
programming the NPC is also programmed to believe every single claim the
to believe every single claim the Israeli government makes except when
Israeli government makes except when they deliberately and openly say they
they deliberately and openly say they are committing genocide and that is how
are committing genocide and that is how you can make an NPC cheer for a genocide
you can make an NPC cheer for a genocide on Gaza as a response to acts Israel
on Gaza as a response to acts Israel itself has done many more times to
itself has done many more times to Palestinians if you have a shred of
Palestinians if you have a shred of honesty and intelligence there's no way
honesty and intelligence there's no way you could look at what Hamas did on
you could look at what Hamas did on October 7 and say this justifies what
October 7 and say this justifies what Israel has been doing since then without
Israel has been doing since then without also looking at the past 80 years of
also looking at the past 80 years of Zionism and saying they justify what
Zionism and saying they justify what Hamas has done I believe neither is
Hamas has done I believe neither is Justified because the basis of human
Justified because the basis of human civilization and the only reason we as
civilization and the only reason we as humans can have civilization is the
humans can have civilization is the rejection of the initiation of violence
rejection of the initiation of violence this is one of the key ideas in my book
this is one of the key ideas in my book principles of economics all of human
principles of economics all of human civilization and the idea of society is
civilization and the idea of society is only possible with the acceptance of the
only possible with the acceptance of the illegitimacy of the initiation of
illegitimacy of the initiation of aggression and the acceptance of the
aggression and the acceptance of the legitimacy of property rights we will
legitimacy of property rights we will either accept that violence against
either accept that violence against civilians is wrong and get to have human
civilians is wrong and get to have human civilization or we will keep initiating
civilization or we will keep initiating violence against each other and each
violence against each other and each other's property until we can no longer
other's property until we can no longer have civilized society and we return to
have civilized society and we return to being Apes in nature slinging our feces
being Apes in nature slinging our feces at each other if you've been brainwashed
at each other if you've been brainwashed into thinking that Israel's deliberate
into thinking that Israel's deliberate destruction of the lives of 2.3 million
destruction of the lives of 2.3 million people where their politicians are
people where their politicians are actively calling for the depopulation of
actively calling for the depopulation of Gaza and the Conquering of the land
Gaza and the Conquering of the land where their military spokesman is
where their military spokesman is literally saying the focus is on
literally saying the focus is on destruction and not accuracy where they
destruction and not accuracy where they have destroyed every single piece of
have destroyed every single piece of critical infrastructure deliberately to
critical infrastructure deliberately to make the place uninhabitable as their
make the place uninhabitable as their soldiers and commanders have repeatedly
soldiers and commanders have repeatedly said if this is Justified in your mind
said if this is Justified in your mind you're an unthinking NPC regurgitating
you're an unthinking NPC regurgitating propaganda incapable of thinking for
propaganda incapable of thinking for yourself ready to be weaponized to
yourself ready to be weaponized to support and fund mass murder at a
support and fund mass murder at a moment's notice you are every mass
moment's notice you are every mass murderer and totalitarian dream you are
murderer and totalitarian dream you are being directed through propaganda to
being directed through propaganda to move from one outrage to another to
move from one outrage to another to weaponize you and your fellow NPCs to
weaponize you and your fellow NPCs to support government doing horrific things
support government doing horrific things with fake Fiat money and it's always
with fake Fiat money and it's always fake Fiat money that needs you to be
fake Fiat money that needs you to be manipulated and outraged like an idiot
manipulated and outraged like an idiot every idiot has been propagandized into
every idiot has been propagandized into believing that governments should create
believing that governments should create money in times of Crisis and that's why
money in times of Crisis and that's why every idiot is constantly being made
every idiot is constantly being made bloodthirsty and hysterical over a
bloodthirsty and hysterical over a crisis this entire genocide in Gaza
crisis this entire genocide in Gaza would not be possible without the
would not be possible without the hundreds of billions of dollars of fake
hundreds of billions of dollars of fake Fiat money the US government and other
Fiat money the US government and other governments provide Israel and for that
governments provide Israel and for that to continue hysterical NPCs need to
to continue hysterical NPCs need to continue to be propagandized
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