0:18 on 24th of July 2008 I attended a talk
0:24 by Barack Obama and that talk has
0:26 changed my life
0:29 not because of what he said actually but
0:32 because of what happened during a talk
0:35 at the time I was a young doctoral
0:38 student trying to better understand how
0:41 charismatic leadership works I asked
0:43 myself questions such as why do
0:45 charismatic leaders have such great sway
0:48 over how people think and behave why is
0:51 it so many of us for for charismatic
0:56 leaders and follow them now of course I
0:57 had done my research right I mean I had
0:59 looked into the book so I had read
1:01 journal papers and so on and I had come
1:04 across one explanation again and again
1:06 and that explanation was that
1:08 charismatic leaders tend to fill us with
1:12 positive emotions now and because we all
1:14 like to have positive emotions we tend
1:16 to stick around these leaders and we
1:18 tend to stick up for these leaders the
1:20 logic here is pretty simple right
1:23 charismatic leaders bind us because they
1:27 make us feel good but when I was at that
1:31 talk by Barack Obama I came to realize
1:34 that this is only half of the story
1:38 and that there was another half that
1:43 still needed to be told so the speech by
1:45 Barack Obama took place in Berlin it was
1:47 part of his election campaign in 2008
1:52 and here you can see a picture of the
1:54 moment when Barack Obama stepped onto
1:58 the podium and because I had arrived
2:00 three hours earlier I actually managed
2:03 to get myself a spot in the first row so
2:07 here you can see me behind my mobile
2:08 phone of course is everyone these days
2:10 you know I took a picture of this member
2:12 of a moment as he stepped onto the stage
2:13 to give his speech
2:15 and over the course of the afternoon
2:19 over 200,000 people actually gathered to
2:23 listen to Barack Obama next to me you
2:26 can see Sarah who was there with her two
2:30 young boys because we both arrived three
2:32 hours early we had a little bit of time
2:35 to chat so I learned from Sarah that she
2:38 was American and that her husband was in
2:40 the military and that as a family they
2:42 were stationed in Germany which is why
2:45 she came to this speech and she told me
2:48 of the painful uncertainty of her family
2:50 that because her husband was flying
2:52 missions to Iraq each time they said
2:54 goodbye to him they never knew whether
3:00 he would actually return so Barack Obama
3:04 stepped onto the stage and everybody was
3:05 cheering and applauding as you can see
3:09 in this picture but then he raised his
3:14 voice thanked everyone and the speech
3:19 began I come to Berlin as so many of my
3:22 countrymen have come before although
3:24 tonight I speak to you not as a
3:27 candidate for president but as a citizen
3:32 a proud citizen of the United States and
3:37 a fellow citizen of the world and so the
3:40 speech slowly began to unfold it's magic
3:43 and two hundred thousand people felt
3:46 quiet and I myself you know I felt
3:48 myself getting drawn into this speech
3:51 feeling moved and mesmerized about sort
3:53 of how he told his own story and
3:55 connected it with the story of Berlin
3:58 and our common yearning for freedom and
4:00 he get that that warm feeling of Hope
4:02 somewhere somewhere here you know and
4:05 it's it's you feel like you're part of
4:06 something bigger and you get almost
4:10 carried away by this emotion and at that
4:12 point I remind myself that I was
4:14 actually at this speech that was the
4:16 reason I was there for scholarly
4:18 purposes you know I started charismatic
4:19 leadership so I had a rifle at a speech
4:22 I wanted to analyze this speech look
4:25 around and see what's happening so as
4:26 hard as it was
4:28 myself out of the magic try to sort of
4:30 distance myself from these wonderful
4:31 feelings that was stirred by this
4:36 charismatic superhero and looked around
4:39 so I began to look over you know Sarah
4:41 was on my left side so I looked to Sarah
4:42 and I thought you know what I'll be
4:44 seeing what I was expecting would be
4:46 lots of positive emotions right that's
4:47 what essentially I'd learn from the
4:51 books but the reality was the rare no
4:55 positive emotions in fact Sarah was
5:03 looking just like this so I looked at
5:06 the other direction and it turns out he
5:11 now most people were like no positive
5:12 emotion really it was just it was like
5:17 frozen in a way now that's not to say
5:19 that they didn't feel positive emotions
5:21 right I'm sure everybody was just like I
5:24 mean it's a go deeply moved and touched
5:29 by the story but it wasn't showing up on
5:31 the face or in the posture anywhere it
5:33 just was deep inside it was not
5:38 expressed that also doesn't mean that it
5:41 was never expressed I mean occasionally
5:45 Barack Obama gave us permission to chair
5:51 and chant and so people woke up cheer
5:53 and shot and yes we can and all that
5:57 stuff at the time okay but only to fall
6:00 back into this zero expression moment
6:04 shortly after right now this was against
6:07 everything that I had read in the books
6:09 what I was seeing a witnessing here was
6:12 definitely a different story and my
6:14 began my brain began to race and I
6:16 thought you know maybe there's something
6:18 in there in here that offers a genuine
6:20 discovery of the workings of charismatic
6:24 leadership now the speech eventually
6:25 came to an end
6:29 and Barack Obama stepped from the podium
6:33 but rather than walking away he actually
6:36 walked towards us Sarah and me it was
6:38 like oh gosh this is my prime
6:39 opportunity to have a real life
6:41 a real charismatic leader that I could
6:44 put even into my dissertation maybe but
6:47 guys all I got was a handshake and all
6:51 he moved but Sarah maybe because she was
6:54 American had a vote in the election got
6:55 considerably more attention so Barack
6:58 Obama actually caringly listened to her
7:01 story and and gave her a hug and because
7:04 I was a touched by his moment I actually
7:07 took a picture of the two in that moment
7:09 sir it's just able to hold up that old
7:12 mobile phone took a picture and as he
7:15 can see once barack obama was providing
7:17 her with the individual attention her
7:19 emotions were actually pouring out her
7:23 mug from where showing but this moment
7:25 as all great moments eventually passed
7:28 and so Sarah and I found ourselves
7:33 amidst a dissipating crowd and before
7:35 our ways parted I just asked Sarah so
7:38 Sarah how did you like the speech I was
7:39 just wanting to check whether she
7:41 actually had felt it and she was saying
7:45 like it was awesome okay must been
7:48 terrific then it was just great but he
7:50 know the scholar that I am I tried to
7:52 specify that a little bit so I asked so
7:54 what were the three things that you
7:55 liked the most
7:57 she was like oh I don't know it was
8:00 everything was it was just amazing I was
8:03 so touched it was great I said it's do
8:06 anything that specifically nothing
8:08 wonderful all wonderful
8:11 so we said goodbye and I haven't seen
8:14 Sarah ever since but I've learned
8:16 something from her that afternoon that
8:18 has fundamentally changed my
8:19 understanding of charismatic leadership
8:22 and that has sparked decade nearly of
8:26 research on charismatic leadership it is
8:28 true that charismatic leaders instilled
8:30 positive emotions in us they make us
8:32 feel great excitement enthusiasm
8:37 passionate energy all that is true but
8:43 they also put us in awe and because we
8:47 admire them so much we tend to hold back
8:50 our emotions in an almost instinctive
8:53 effort to show our deference to them to
8:54 acknowledge their soup
8:58 status it reminded me of a quote I had
9:00 read from the early social psychologist
9:04 mcdougal here's the quote in the case of
9:06 a person who we intensely admire we
9:08 become shy like a child in the presence
9:11 of an adult stranger with the impulse to
9:14 shrink together to be still and to avoid
9:17 attracting his attention now I think
9:19 this is exactly what happens in the
9:22 context of charismatic leadership we
9:25 have amazed yet a bit intimidated with
9:28 full of admiration and yet a little bit
9:31 too shy to express it right in one word
9:36 if you like we are awestruck right
9:40 awestruck full of emotion yet unable to
9:43 express them now it turns out it wasn't
9:45 just sarah's and the others that
9:46 afternoon that suffer from this
9:48 particular phenomenon in fact in
9:50 carefully crafted experiments and
9:52 studies that we conducted ever since
9:55 we've shown again and again and we need
9:57 confront people with caring medic
10:00 leaders their emotional expert Civet e
10:05 becomes subdued and so we've come to
10:07 call this the awestruck effect of
10:10 charismatic leaders they make is full of
10:12 emotion and yet unable to express them
10:15 now you may wonder okay so but what do
10:16 we actually even care about the
10:18 emotional exclusivity of followers right
10:20 why does it matter why is the awestruck
10:22 effect important well it turns out that
10:24 psychologists have shown for many years
10:27 that when people suppress the expression
10:29 of their emotion as they do in their
10:33 awestruck the intensity of the emotion
10:36 increases inside of them but they also
10:38 suffer from a cognitive decrement and
10:40 that means that they're less able to
10:42 understand memorize and scrutinize
10:45 messages now this is exactly what
10:47 happened to Sarah that afternoon right
10:50 she felt great about the speech and yet
10:53 when asked what she remembered couldn't
10:55 recall anything right even when asked
10:58 again nothing there right
11:02 Obama had stirred her heart and her head
11:05 had been busy processing these emotions
11:08 but not the message
11:11 now to illustrate that point a little
11:12 bit further let me tell you quickly
11:16 about a study that we conducted at our
11:17 Business School we invited a speaker and
11:19 asked that speaker to give two talks
11:22 both talks should have the same content
11:24 but one should be delivered in a very
11:27 charismatic way making people awestruck
11:29 and the other one should just be
11:33 delivered as a normal talk and then
11:36 after both talks we asked the members in
11:38 the audience so how much do you think
11:41 you remember and we recorded our answer
11:44 but next and they didn't know that would
11:46 come up we gave them an actual memory
11:47 test checking how much they actually
11:51 remember of the speech and so we scored
11:54 that and then we made an astonishing
12:01 discovery the people who had heard the
12:05 charismatic talk they thought they would
12:08 remember a lot they were very confident
12:10 yes I remember it was great I remember I
12:12 take a lot away from this talk but truth
12:15 be told on the actual memory test they
12:17 didn't do all that well in fact they did
12:21 relatively poorly as he can see here now
12:22 contrast that to the people who had
12:25 attended the normal talk they actually
12:26 thought they didn't take much away from
12:28 the talk longer talk you know no
12:29 excitement and so on
12:32 they didn't thought you think that they
12:34 would take a lot away but in fact they
12:37 did they remembered significantly more
12:38 than the ones who had attended the
12:41 charismatic talk now what this shows us
12:44 is that when we attend a charismatic
12:47 speech we think we understand memorize
12:49 you know sort of fully comprehend what
12:51 the charismatic leader is telling us but
12:56 in fact we don't okay now you may wonder
12:59 does that have any implications for
13:03 followership you know now in that study
13:05 that I just showed you we gave people an
13:09 opportunity after the talk to literally
13:11 follow the speaker to the coffee lounge
13:13 you know have a cup of coffee tea
13:15 together have a bit of a chat and so on
13:17 that turns out that those who thought
13:19 that they had taken a little away from
13:21 the talk thus the peep
13:24 mostly in the charismatic condition were
13:26 most likely to follow the speaker to the
13:29 coffee lounge but that was completely
13:31 independent of whether they had actually
13:33 taken anything away so when they
13:34 understood this stuff doesn't matter
13:37 once they felt great about it once they
13:38 felt confident they had something taken
13:40 away they follow and that means we
13:42 follow her as many leaders in part
13:46 because of the awestruck effect now when
13:48 I present this stuff then usually you
13:49 know at some point a hand goes up and so
13:52 on us so okay get the second part of the
13:53 story now the first part with the
13:55 positive emotions is that actually right
13:56 weren't there leaders that sort of
13:59 steered anger hate and aggression and
14:01 we're in these sometimes charismatic
14:05 leaders - yeah I think not every
14:07 charismatic leader has an all positive
14:10 emotion as Obama had but it turns out
14:12 that all charismatic leaders try to
14:13 instill their followers with positive
14:18 emotions but some still stir anger hate
14:21 fear all of that stuff but they do so to
14:23 target it to an out-group some other
14:26 people that are to blame for you know
14:28 our bad feelings here and so they push
14:30 the emotion away from them that's
14:31 relieving their own folks their own
14:33 in-group their own followers from these
14:34 negative emotions creating a positive
14:38 emotion instead it's us the great versus
14:42 them despicable and inevitably the next
14:44 hand goes up and some on us so can this
14:46 actually play explain why sometimes
14:48 people follow charismatic leaders even
14:49 if they lead them over to lick lick over
14:54 the edge of the cliff is sure I mean you
14:56 know if you're all struck you don't even
14:57 notice that you're wandering towards the
14:59 edge of the cliff right you're happy on
15:01 a sinking ship you're all like it's all
15:03 great and you don't get what's happening
15:07 in the world in fact 52 follow-up
15:10 studies showing people at Icarus medic
15:12 leaders or normal leaders and then
15:14 checked whether they would cheat but
15:16 taking away a little bit more money than
15:17 they were supposed to in the end or
15:20 whether they would lie to us turns out
15:22 people in the charismatic who had been
15:24 exposed to charismatic leadership were
15:26 significantly more likely to treat and
15:28 lie after having been exposed to that
15:30 type of leadership contrasted to the
15:34 people who've seen normal leadership now
15:36 does that mean charismatic leadership is
15:39 all bad I've struggled with that
15:42 question for a long time and I think
15:45 it's neither good or bad what
15:47 charismatic leadership is is a powerful
15:50 way to influence us charismatic leaders
15:52 want to change the world they want to
15:54 convince us of a bold vision they want
15:56 to take us along on a moon on a new
15:58 journey they want to set new moral
16:02 standards and to do so they must to some
16:07 degree mood our skepticism and criticism
16:12 make our hat draw a blank and forget our
16:16 differences right and instead unite on
16:18 the common course and that's what the
16:20 awestruck effect can do it can ply this
16:21 to call the arguments and it can make us
16:23 break with prevailing norms and go for
16:26 new ones that can bring about major
16:29 societal change it can be and it often
16:35 has been a force for good but it can
16:38 also be a force for evil the awestruck
16:40 effect can make us vulnerable to bind to
16:43 the wrong vision to be dazzled by
16:45 seemingly simple yet deeply flawed
16:48 solutions and to ignore the moral
16:50 deficiencies of charismatic leaders who
16:54 appeal to our heart and so I think I
16:57 want to conclude this talk on a piece of
17:00 advice and that advice is simply that
17:03 you need to be aware of this awestruck
17:06 effect know it and tell it to others
17:08 but beware it doesn't mean to avoid it altogether
17:09 altogether
17:12 beware means that you carefully choose
17:16 the leaders that you follow that you
17:18 carefully choose your charismatic
17:20 leaders check their message in cold
17:23 daylight try to see them as the person
17:26 they are not as the superhero that they
17:28 pitch themselves when Barack Obama
17:30 stepped down from the podium and gave
17:33 Sara individual attention she saw him as
17:36 the person he was and she opened up her
17:38 emotions were pouring out and if you
17:41 like the person if you like their
17:45 message then give in to the awestruck
17:47 effect it can fill you with amazing emotions
17:48 emotions
17:51 enthusiasm anger excitement not anger
17:55 excitement passion energy all the
17:56 positive stuff that these leaders tend
18:00 to fill us with and these emotions can
18:03 carry you forward they can allow this
18:06 the charismatic leader to make a change
18:10 in your life and does give you the
18:14 chance to take your part to play your
