0:02 hey everyone welcome back to traz Tech
0:05 talk this Friday the 13th we're going to
0:07 get into a topic that has some strong
0:09 opinions on both sides as hinted at
0:10 we're going to be talking about the
0:14 great debate ECC versus non-cc for your
0:16 tras system you might have noticed if
0:18 you checked out the advanced poll we had
0:20 you have both sides of the opinions
0:23 right here in the conversation so
0:24 looking forward to this spirited
0:27 discussion Chris a vigorous discussion
0:28 this is going to be fun really looking
0:30 forward to it and joining from my home
0:32 office today for those who are wondering
0:34 got sick kids in the house so I'm not
0:36 bringing that into work but it's fine
0:38 it's good we're still going to make this
0:40 happen sorry to hear that Chris um so I
0:42 think we got a couple little bits of
0:44 news just uh quickly before we dive into
0:45 things do you want to run us through
0:48 some of the uh highlights sure so I
0:49 guess the probably the biggest thing to
0:51 talk about is the upcoming uh update to
0:53 electric eel this will be the first
0:55 official dot One release that's been
0:57 delayed it was originally sled for this
0:59 week on Thursday but it's been pushed to
1:01 Tuesday the 17th so in a few days from
1:04 now um we had some additional testing
1:06 and fixes we needed to get in related to
1:08 Nvidia driver setups for those who are
1:11 using GPU on their traz so for those who
1:13 are curious on the technical details in
1:15 the background we had a a significant
1:18 number of people with issues in the zero
1:19 with the Nvidia driver deployment it was
1:22 very Dynamic it would pull the driver
1:24 install it which meant there was failure
1:25 scenarios with if your network
1:27 connection goes down or the driver
1:29 doesn't install properly we wanted to
1:32 elim at all that so the one we have a
1:34 pretty neat system we're using system D
1:37 CIS extensions if you haven't looked
1:39 that up go Google it it's worth a Google
1:41 but the the short version of it is it
1:43 allows you to load an optional kind of
1:45 uh data set or firmware on top of a
1:48 readon rud FS image which is what tras
1:50 is by default so kind of a perfect use
1:52 case for this where it's a driver that
1:54 doesn't need to be deployed on
1:55 everyone's system by default and we
1:56 don't want it to be you know if you're
1:58 running Intel or you have no gpus and
2:01 you're doing P NZ work loads why do you
2:03 need the Nvidia driver I don't blame you
2:04 but if you check the box and want it we
2:06 have the ability to go and basically
2:09 overlay it on top of the default rud FS
2:11 image and provide that functionality for
2:13 you perfect use case for this it's a
2:15 pretty neat little technology and I
2:16 expect you'll see more use of that in
2:18 the future we'll talk about that in a
2:21 future episode yeah I think that uh we
2:22 we did have some bumps in the road
2:25 certainly with Nvidia and you know maybe
2:26 those who were running the Intel art
2:28 gpus were kind of sitting back and going
2:30 well this is why you should run that we
2:31 do have to think about sort of the uh
2:34 the larger majority and the the the use
2:36 case for everyone um there's a lot of
2:38 Nvidia users there's a lot of Intel
2:40 users definitely I think Nvidia has the
2:42 lion chair we don't have some metrics on
2:43 that maybe that's another poll we're
2:45 going to run we'll say you know do you
2:47 have a GPU in there and if so what brand
2:49 do you have yeah that would be
2:50 interesting I say always good to get
2:52 some more feedback a lot more people
2:54 using the Intel gpus now is what what
2:56 I'm seeing that's what I'm personally
2:58 running here I had an onboard GPU and
3:00 now a dedicated Arc and just kind of
3:02 works quite nice yeah the the onboard
3:04 Intel gpus have gotten really good
3:06 lately especially in the the scheme of
3:08 video decode I I wouldn't necessarily
3:09 use them for gaming but uh maybe we'll
3:11 go into that later in the conversation
3:13 if we have time I am drooling over those
3:15 new battle mage cards already sold out
3:17 when I checked this morning yeah
3:18 couldn't couldn't even get a pre-order
3:20 in on one so we uh we might have to wait
3:22 for some testing but hey we hope that
3:24 they'll be uh ready in time for fang
3:26 tooth and we'll be having full support
3:29 in there absolutely so I guess we should
3:31 dive into the big topic that everyone
3:34 wants to see the slugfest of ECC versus non-cc
3:35 non-cc
3:37 absolutely we should mention you did
3:40 mention we ran a poll we had over 170
3:42 votes I think it was 171 right before
3:44 the show when I had checked yeah we'll
3:46 put the stats up on screen how it broke
3:48 out but I mean as of recording time we
3:51 actually had a 70% for saying that for
3:54 their own traz they will only use ECC
3:55 memory so it was a 7030 split we
3:57 definitely have some uh very
4:00 enthusiastic folks about their
4:02 protection absolutely so that's going to
4:04 put me in the uh the minority here and I
4:06 got to work extra hard not that I'm
4:08 trying to convince you not to use ECC
4:10 but I'm just trying to defend those of
4:12 us who don't need to use ECC or don't
4:14 feel it necessary for our particular
4:17 workload so exactly I guess first up
4:18 I'll go through some of my thoughts feel
4:20 free to counter punch Chris we'll go
4:21 through yours you can blow me out of the
4:24 water that's great all in good spirit
4:25 but uh I wanted to start by just
4:28 dispelling the myth out of box you know
4:29 for a long time we've heard this myth
4:32 that somehow ZFS by its nature requires
4:34 ECC somehow more so than other file
4:37 systems that's just Flatout false so
4:40 let's just kind of put that aside first
4:42 ZFS with or without ECC by its nature is
4:44 safer for your data regardless and I
4:47 think we have a quote from MN about that
4:49 a little bit and we'll we'll go over
4:51 that from the man himself it so ZFS of
4:53 course does a lot of work to always try
4:55 and ensure you have data Integrity first
4:57 and foremost again ECC or not it's still
5:00 doing that work behind the scenes so why
5:03 do I not use ECC well bunch of reasons
5:05 you know predominantly it wasn't easy to
5:07 get over the years when I first started
5:10 running ZFS even back in the pcbsd days
5:13 and it's also for my workload my traz
5:16 workloads um almost entirely read once
5:18 write many all right I'm not doing a lot
5:20 of things in Ram once the files hit the
5:22 dis that's kind of where they sit
5:24 Forever Until I replicate them or back
5:26 them up to the cloud good I think you
5:27 might have had that backwards I think
5:29 you said read once write many oh sorry
5:30 did I say that think you I think you
5:33 mean the other way around I Lexia is
5:36 biting me today although although a
5:39 backup a backup workload is typically
5:40 you know write many and read once for
5:42 your verify so if you were doing just
5:44 you know time machine backups or system
5:46 level backups of all of your programs or
5:48 your desktops in your house it could
5:50 very well be that read once right many
5:51 but I think you mean the other way
5:54 around I the other way around it's it's
5:56 mostly just backing up data so SMB
5:58 shares you know we have family data
6:01 photos Etc I write it and then it sits
6:04 on the disc forever very rarely read
6:06 even I mean yeah of course we'll go into
6:08 the photo app and go look for that album
6:10 or do some work here and there but the
6:13 data changing once it hits the pool is
6:15 almost never that's that's so that that
6:17 is unique for me I'm a little different
6:20 than maybe most folks that way I'm not
6:22 running a lot of VMS I'm not running
6:25 databases I run a couple apps but
6:27 they're the kind of apps where if
6:29 something does go wrong I can recreate
6:30 or live without out or restore from a
6:32 backup not the end of the world for me
6:34 personally another thing I'll mention is
6:37 none of my clients are ECC either and it
6:38 tends to be that the components I buy
6:41 and and use to build my own chazes are
6:43 higher quality than definitely the
6:45 workstations I have hanging around the
6:46 house and if I was going to worry about
6:48 a bit flip it would be on the the
6:50 desktops around the house which are
6:52 definitely a little bit more suspect and
6:55 maybe of a lower quality overall yeah
6:57 it's it's still rare to have that happen
6:58 and there there are some of us who are
7:01 crazy enough to actually run you know
7:04 workstations as their primary PC I admit
7:05 I'm not doing it right now but there was
7:07 a time in the past where my primary
7:11 machine did in fact have ECC yeah it's
7:13 just available to me and I said yeah why
7:15 not I'm gonna do this can't say I ever
7:17 did the only time I really had ECC in my
7:19 sweaty little hands was when I was doing
7:22 the build farms for pcbsd and I did have
7:24 a bunch of servers with ECC and those
7:25 guys of course were doing memory
7:27 workloads all day it was compiling it
7:29 was just beating up the RAM and sure
7:32 occasionally I'd see a stick go bad and
7:34 toss it I can't say I've ever seen that
7:36 on any of my trases though I've
7:37 definitely had sticks of ram fail on
7:39 some of the workstations and usually
7:42 that manifests as you know crashing hard
7:43 locks all that good stuff and it was
7:46 very easy to sus out additionally I've
7:47 never had it happen personally again
7:49 antidotal but I've never had it happen
7:51 on a system because of age it's always
7:54 been a lemon right out of box you know
7:56 very caught early you know it's that
7:57 it's that bathtub curve that we talk
7:59 about with system burning you sometimes
8:00 see that in the community they talk
8:03 about you either have the very early
8:05 failures or the late overtime failures
8:06 generally if you make it through those
8:08 first couple of months your first couple
8:11 big intense rights to the drive and uh
8:13 you know hours weeks days up time on the
8:15 system you're probably going to be okay
8:17 you know we all did that back in the day
8:18 when we built our gaming PC it slammed
8:20 it with prime 95 or whatever other
8:23 workload generator for 24 48 hours and
8:26 you said yeah it's good I'll go Ahad
8:27 it's stable everything's happy and that
8:29 that is where I did tend to shake out
8:31 the issues so again because of my
8:34 workload it's 99% worm got it right that
8:36 time if it wasn't though my math might
8:39 change a bit you see what I did [Laughter]
8:41 [Laughter]
8:45 there that's that's bad hey that's fair
8:47 but in summary for me so my stance on it
8:50 is ECC sure why not if you have it or
8:52 it's available or you don't mind
8:54 spending a little extra build the nicest
8:56 system you can afford or feel you need
8:58 of course why not I would never
9:00 discourage anybody from doing that but
9:03 the question was is it forbidden or
9:05 should we not encourage people to run
9:08 ZFS or traz on non ECC systems
9:10 absolutely not running on what you got
9:13 if that's what you have access to again
9:14 I I'll throw a little thought exercise
9:16 out here and you guys can ponder on it
9:18 I'd love to hear feedback in the forums
9:20 as well you know would you trust ZFS
9:23 without ECC more than a non- check
9:25 summing file system with
9:28 ECC I'd say yes ZFS for the winds hand
9:30 down it's about the risk profile
9:31 honestly the things that are going to
9:33 screw you over are going to be your
9:34 discs or other components nine times out
9:37 of 10 or 99 times out of 100 even
9:39 statistically that's what we see that's
9:41 what the math shows so again if you have
9:42 it you can afford it if you're on an
9:44 Enterprise workload if I'm buying
9:46 Enterprise gear I kind of expect it
9:48 that's just you know kind of par for the
9:50 course right but when you don't have
9:52 access to it you're building from
9:53 components you have available or for
9:55 whatever reason can't afford the extra
9:57 cost I'd still go ahead and throw trow
10:00 on it and say that's perfectly fine and
10:02 again but put what into it you want out
10:04 of it and in my case it just doesn't
10:06 appear to be something that I were I
10:07 don't lose any sleep over let's put it
10:09 that way yeah yeah that's that's a fair
10:11 argument and uh even though I'm coming
10:14 down on the pro ECC side of things again
10:16 as as you said Chris there's no hard
10:20 requirement to use ECC um or do several
10:22 other things that you know I might say I
10:23 wouldn't do this personally but if
10:26 somebody chooses to do it I've I've had
10:27 people say they're running their VM
10:30 loads async because they can't uh they
10:31 don't want to worry about all the
10:34 challenges of Slug and I said you know
10:35 if you're accepting the risk that you
10:37 may to may need to roll back to a
10:39 snapshot it they said hey I'm taking
10:42 hourly snapshots of my VMS I'm okay with
10:44 rolling back to the last hour said you
10:46 know what you've made that risk decision
10:49 consciously go for it for me on the ECC
10:51 side I say you know I I don't want to
10:54 take that risk I'm running ZFS for a
10:56 reason I want that file system that has
10:58 those strong check sums really solid
11:00 file integrity so I said I want to
11:02 support this as best as possible for me
11:04 using ECC is mostly about eliminating
11:06 just that one additional potential point
11:09 of failure sure my discs could go bad
11:11 but I look at it almost as if ECC is
11:14 going to save me time I'm not going to
11:16 ask hey do I do I have faulty memory in
11:17 this system is there something that's
11:19 weird going on that I'm getting
11:21 unexpected results or um unstable
11:24 performance I just go well no I I know
11:26 whether or not I have bad memory because
11:28 my event log is going to tell me right
11:31 there oh machine check error CPU zero
11:33 Bank two it's not only going to tell me
11:34 there's a bad stick it's going to
11:36 identify exactly which one it is so I
11:39 can shut down pull that piece of memory
11:41 replace it with another one if I've got
11:43 it and I'm back up and running and I'm
11:45 very confident that everything is going
11:48 to work fine and another another
11:50 personal choice of mine is I'm not
11:52 always using the the fastest latest tech
11:54 for the TR systems I talked a little bit
11:56 about this on a previous podcast I like
11:58 to St a little bit behind the curve I
11:59 stay off the bleed Leading Edge of
12:01 Hardware when I'm building these so when
12:04 I'm looking for it I say ECC memory can
12:06 actually be surprisingly affordable in
12:09 that space I tend to purchase you know
12:11 off leas decommissioned server Hardware
12:12 some of you might notice there's a rack
12:14 of there's a bunch of rack mounts behind
12:16 me um it may or may not be an option
12:18 depending on how much power costs where
12:20 you are or your level of noise that
12:22 you're willing to deal with but if
12:24 you're buying into a platform that might
12:26 be older and can support the registered
12:29 ECC dims they can be comparable cost and
12:31 sometimes even lower on a per gigabyte
12:35 basis ver just a newer non-cc dim if I'm
12:38 just looking to buy sticks of like ddr4
12:41 2400 Ram some people might say oh that's
12:43 way too slow sure it's too slow for my
12:47 gaming PC but for my trz system that's
12:50 connected over 10 gig um that Ram is way
12:52 more fast way faster than my network
12:54 speeds are ever going to be able to
12:56 handle the way I to me I just think of
12:58 it as you know I'm kind of invested in
13:02 ZF fast invested in that Integrity um I
13:04 love my data I have it backed up offsite
13:06 but you know even until until recently I
13:08 didn't have the internet speeds to try
13:09 and restore a terabyte in any kind of
13:12 reasonable reasonable time period so
13:14 maybe I'm stuck in my ways maybe it's
13:16 just kind of how I am and I'm saying you
13:18 know it's I I I'm going to have the seat
13:20 belt I'm going to have the airbags I
13:22 want all those kind of collision Warning
13:25 Systems on my data because all it takes
13:26 for me is I would say it's just if it
13:28 happens once once is too many times to
13:31 have a corrupted file of a photo I can't
13:34 take again or a document that I can't
13:36 rewrite then that's fair and again if
13:37 that if that's how you look at it and
13:40 the risk and the reward I absolutely
13:41 understand why people make those
13:43 decisions so again not disparaging
13:46 anybody who runs ECC I just want to not
13:47 in discourage people from not running
13:49 traz because for whatever reason they
13:53 don't have ECC or opt not to get it um
13:54 somebody may ask me has Chris ever lost
13:57 data this Chris I have one time so I can
13:59 tell you the story on that and it was
14:01 new brand new system I built and was
14:03 migrating data to it and uh did see
14:05 corruption on the pool and the pool was
14:07 toast um during the replication it was a
14:10 bad HBA in this case it and of course I
14:11 wasn't paying close enough attention to
14:13 catch it right in the ACT but found out
14:15 after the fact replace the
14:18 HBA yeah yeah smooth sailing ever since
14:20 I don't think I've lost data from a ZFS
14:22 file system since it was merged into
14:25 FreeBSD and I started using it way back
14:28 in the eons gone past with like pcbsd
14:31 and stuff so my track record goes good
14:32 ask me again in a year I could have some
14:34 disaster story and now I'm going to be
14:37 like all pro ECC like oh my God I
14:38 haven't seen that yet though I'm not
14:40 expecting it and again my workload is if
14:42 I have to restore it from the cloud I
14:45 have the capability of doing that I have
14:46 I mean my personal story is I've been
14:50 using uh ZFS for almost 15 years at this
14:53 point um the only data loss stories I
14:56 have are preceding that date ever since
14:59 jumping onto the ZFS train I said I
15:00 still have all my bits from way back
15:03 then I have the you know those old Doom
15:05 wads I restored from a floppy drive and
15:07 I went hey I made these when I was a kid
15:08 I'm putting them on there I I want to be
15:10 able to look back at those and and
15:12 cringe in another 20 years when I
15:14 replayed Doom for the first time that's
15:16 awesome yeah I say ZFS really was a game
15:17 changer I think sometimes we take it for
15:19 granted because that's what we do all
15:21 day here Chris you know got to think
15:23 back and go oh I remember those ufs days
15:26 is and I remember the early days of EXT
15:27 and others
15:29 and all those different we're a little
15:31 spoiled today because ZFS works so darn
15:34 hard to try and keep your data intact
15:36 absolutely it's it's just one of those
15:38 things it's you you take it for granted
15:39 and it's I I don't even really think
15:41 about it anymore I say when I put
15:43 something on here I know it's going to
15:45 be safe but hey let's let's maybe you
15:47 know let's look at that quote from you
15:49 know Matt erens one of the the founders
15:51 and developers of the file system where
15:54 he says directly quoting there's nothing
15:57 special about ZFS that requires SL
15:59 encourages the use of ECC Ram more still
16:02 than any other file system if you use
16:07 ufs EXT NTFS butter FS Etc without ECC
16:10 Ram you are just as much at risk as if
16:13 you used ZFS without ECC Ram actually
16:15 ZFS can mitigate this risk to some
16:18 degree if you enable the unsupported ZFS
16:21 debug modify flag this check sums the
16:22 data while it rest in memory and
16:25 verifies it before writing it to disk
16:26 thus reducing the window of
16:28 vulnerability from a memory error I
16:30 would simp simply say if you love your
16:34 data use ECC Ram additionally use a file
16:36 system that checksums your data such as
16:39 ZFS well and that kind of that kind of
16:41 sums up the the discussion right there
16:44 there's nothing that requires it any
16:46 more than any other file
16:49 system it's it's another bit of safety
16:51 on top of it if you want the the
16:54 ultimate and safety you're using ECC
16:56 memory everywhere you're using file
16:58 systems that check some of your data
16:59 Maybe you want continue going down that
17:01 rabbit hole and you say hey now my
17:04 clients are all ECC go even further you
17:06 can say are the are the temporary
17:08 Network buffers on the network cards
17:12 I've used to build my system are those
17:13 ECC protected and hey some of the
17:16 Enterprise ones are guarantee you won't
17:18 find it on a uh a consumer level one but
17:21 you buy an Enterprise level network card
17:23 it's actually going to ECC protect those
17:25 Network buffers yeah go as far as you
17:27 feel you need to to protect your data
17:29 and as your budget will allow if you
17:30 can't go further hey at least you did
17:32 something right with choosing trunz and
17:34 ZFS in the first place that's the first
17:36 step I think abut starting off on the
17:38 right foot and again whatever Hardware
17:40 you can get more power to you like I
17:41 said I want to I want to see people
17:44 using ZFS and trow at the end of the day
17:45 I think that's the first step towards
17:47 proper data safety and again we should
17:50 not go without mentioning please do
17:53 backups raid Z is not a backup is not a
17:57 backup have backups off site follow best
17:59 practices absolutely you could you don't
18:01 have to go as far as 321 if you don't
18:05 want to but backups are backups are
18:07 backups and raidy is about redundancy
18:11 and up time yep 100% yeah okay well I
18:13 think we have a little bit of time here
18:14 that wasn't so bad see we could still be
18:17 friends at the end of it eccp people can
18:20 mix it's okay yeah it's all right we can
18:22 we can still get along you knowy but but
18:24 if I'm if I'm not on the podcast next
18:27 week guys you know why H we need to talk
18:31 after the show oh man no no this is good
18:33 this is good and this was a long overdue
18:35 conversation it's a Hot Topic and again
18:37 if you have other hot topics like this
18:39 that we should address or talk about
18:40 send it in I'd love to hear that was
18:42 actually a lot of fun I purposely tried
18:44 not to comment on the poll and all the
18:45 back and forth on there because I was
18:47 just more curious to see what people
18:48 were going to say and which
18:50 personalities would come out pro and con
18:52 all that so it was entertaining thank
18:54 you all I appreciate the dialogue back
18:57 and forth it's been fun to watch
18:58 absolutely well hey we got a little bit
19:00 of time here I mean if we were wanting
19:03 to talk about uh stability and uh
19:05 avoiding weird crashes and odd behavior
19:07 I mean Chris I know you made a bit of a
19:09 switch in your main operating system to
19:11 uh to dump Microsoft so why don't you
19:12 tell us a little bit about the
19:14 background there I mean I know you're a
19:16 gamer so we've heard a lot of things
19:19 about you know oh Linux can't game um
19:21 the ex well the existence of the steam
19:23 deck and its popularity seems to uh act
19:25 contrary to that so watch tell a little
19:27 thisit tell us a bit about what happened
19:28 a little bit of a personal story here so
19:30 indulge me for a moment it's not
19:32 directly true now related but it is Tech
19:33 and interesting and a lot of us on this
19:36 show who listen are Gamers and enjoy
19:38 these kind of things anyway so first of
19:40 all for my work laptops and all that I
19:42 run new bun to that's all Linux life is
19:43 good there I use that on all the other
19:45 workstations around their house but like
19:48 many gamers I suspect here listening
19:49 most of us had a Windows system
19:51 somewhere that we use as kind of our
19:53 primary gaming rig right y guilty is
19:56 charged you still do okay guil is Char I
19:58 did too like that was just still the
20:00 thing to you had your windows box and
20:01 that's where you put your fancy GPU and
20:03 your high-end Monitor and played your
20:06 games well little funny story here a
20:08 couple weeks ago over the Thanksgiving
20:09 weekend I had some time off and of
20:11 course you know if I have a little extra
20:13 time I'll go play a game or two so I got
20:14 hooked on playing a little bit of
20:17 valve's new MOA shooter deadlock which
20:18 by the way if you haven't played that
20:20 it's a ton of fun if you like DOTA
20:22 League of Legends or if you remember
20:24 playing Team Fortress 2 it's like this
20:26 weird like they got drunk one night
20:28 things went too far and then the a baby
20:30 resulted and Deadlock came out it was
20:32 it's strange it's hard to describe try
20:34 it so anyway plug for deadlock aside and
20:36 though valve's not sponsoring the show
20:39 but all that to say one of the mornings
20:41 over that holiday break I went and
20:42 booted up the windows on the system and
20:44 I just you hit the power button ran to
20:45 grab a drink so I could settle in and
20:48 play a game well when I got pack I
20:49 noticed my browser was open with all my
20:51 usual tabs and all that and I'm sitting
20:52 there thinking that's funny the kids
20:54 aren't up like nobody's touched I don't
20:56 remember clicking a button why did the
20:58 browser open I didn't set that up what's
21:01 going on I started looking closer and I
21:03 realized I didn't catch it at first it
21:06 was Edge that opened up and helpfully
21:08 imported all of my Chrome profiles my
21:10 open tabs including my sessions I was
21:12 logged into my gmail everything was just
21:14 there and even looked kind of like
21:16 Chrome like until I noticed the logo in
21:17 the corner I was like what who launched
21:20 Chrome I didn't click a button well
21:22 needless to say this happened without my
21:24 approval I didn't get any dialogue there
21:25 was nothing do you want to try Edge
21:28 click here to import nothing so I don't
21:30 know if this is intentional I got hit by
21:32 a bug I don't know if others have seen
21:33 this but for whatever reason I was just
21:36 like Ah hell no no not happening like
21:38 that was that was it like you know I've
21:40 had my grapes of Microsoft over the
21:42 years and it's the reason I don't use it
21:44 on anything else apart from the gaming
21:46 rig but you know that was one of those
21:48 righteous Fury moments where I'm like no
21:51 not not without asking I don't care what
21:53 kind of marketing thing this is like no
21:55 way so all that to say I went and
21:57 grabbed one of my iunu USB sticks and
21:59 was like nope I know deadlock works on
22:01 Ubuntu I had already seen somewhere else
22:02 that that works that's all I really want
22:04 to play right now anyway I'll just
22:07 install Ubuntu and give this a shot and
22:08 if some games don't work so be it like
22:10 I'm just I'm not putting up with that
22:13 again so I installed a buntu I was up
22:15 and playing deadlock in probably under
22:17 an hour just got it loaded got steam
22:19 loaded you know downloaded the game
22:22 again all that not only did it work
22:23 flawlessly I got better frame rates out
22:26 of it oh well yeah it was like an extra
22:28 10 20 frames a second I was like this is
22:30 nice that's a nice system it's a 4070
22:33 Nvidia you know nice 1440 monitor all
22:36 that so anyway it I was pleasantly
22:38 surprised it's been a few years since
22:39 I've gone and done any real gaming
22:41 through line which is what we used to
22:44 use back in the pcbsd days this is all
22:47 proton now yeah but what was interesting
22:48 was I started looking a little deeper
22:50 after that I was like huh I wonder which
22:52 of my games will run on Linux and how
22:54 how good is the support and I started
22:57 looking it was like 99% of my library
22:59 works there was only one two like Legacy
23:02 things that were not supported but just
23:03 using proton and steam and I mean no
23:06 fussing I not H the command line messing
23:07 around with wine configs and anything
23:09 it's like just click a box yes run it
23:13 under proton stuff just works I was
23:16 really shocked actually to be honest
23:18 that's really impressive I I know I've
23:20 kind of looked through some of mine and
23:22 I kind of used the uh you know supported
23:24 on Steam deck as my guide but maybe
23:26 there's some additional things that are
23:28 you know overhead in there I I should
23:30 check M out and see if it'll work I
23:32 admit though I'm I'm probably not going
23:33 to jump straight into it I might be one
23:35 of those dual booting guys for a while
23:37 check it out see what does what doesn't
23:40 work um I know I've still been waiting
23:41 for years I don't know if anybody's
23:43 still waiting for valve to do their own
23:46 VR headset again the second generation
23:49 I'm I'm a VR gamer and uh you know some
23:50 of the stuff I use still doesn't run
23:53 properly on uh Linux so I but I could
23:56 probably go in there and dual boot and be
23:57 be
23:59 surprised you really might be surprised
24:01 you should try it yeah if I can if I can
24:03 minimize it down to say hey I'm only in
24:05 uh windows for specific games I mean
24:06 it's a step in the right direction I
24:09 suppose absolutely so one nice thing I
24:12 found was a proton DB website I think
24:13 it's run by the community I'd have to
24:15 look a little closer but they have this
24:16 really cool feature where you can
24:18 basically link your steam profile and
24:20 it'll analyze everything in your library
24:21 and give you the map like what's
24:23 supported what's not what's platinum
24:25 gold silver all that good stuff and that
24:26 was where I went and looked and I was
24:28 like well dang everything I have here
24:30 runs what shocked me was Marvel Rivals
24:32 just came out and I guess that's like an
24:34 OverWatch clone I played just the
24:36 tutorial in one game the other day it
24:38 worked out of box on Linux even though
24:39 it's not Linux native it is a Windows
24:42 game running at proton it just freaking
24:44 worked and it worked well like that's
24:46 the that's the shocking part I'm used to
24:48 like a certain amount of okay there's
24:50 going to be bugs it's going to be slow
24:53 glitches and it just worked and ran like
24:55 I didn't even mess the fact I wasn't on
24:56 Windows if I had sat my kids down they
24:59 wouldn't have noticed yeah so anyway fun
25:01 little story aside that was my adventure
25:04 with uh taking the plan think for
25:05 everybody to try on the weekend I mean
25:07 hey we got you know another things see
25:08 we could find out say who's who's
25:11 running Linux already are you know are
25:13 we've got the the GPU poll we can have
25:15 the the gaming operating system pole
25:17 absolutely yeah well I think again if
25:18 you haven't done it in a while or if
25:20 you're like me and you did run it years
25:21 ago it's probably been a good eight nine
25:24 years since I ran wine it is nowhere
25:27 like it was back then so anyway props to
25:29 steam and valve and all the guys who
25:31 work on wine and proton and all that
25:33 it's come a long way to the point where
25:36 again running deadlock it was better
25:38 experience on the Linux side than it was
25:40 on Windows which again blew me away did
25:43 not expect that oh from a valve game I
25:45 could I could see that they're they're
25:46 pretty uh they're pretty Pro open source
25:49 in their own way well steam de CU Linux
25:50 Bas all that so they kind of got to be I
25:53 get it but still nice to see and I'm
25:55 happy to go and at least throw one more
25:57 system in their pool of reporting Linux
26:00 system so they see traction there 2025
26:02 will be the year of the Linux desktop
26:04 we're for real this time for real Linux
26:06 desktop's here for me now the desktop
26:08 part just works like I've had no problem
26:09 with that for some time it's the gaming
26:11 side that's always been that tough not
26:13 to crack but hey maybe maybe we're right
26:16 on the verge yeah maybe we'll get there
26:17 all right well as I don't think we have
26:19 anything else for today as always if you
26:21 have any questions or comments for us
26:23 feel free to drop down into the comment
26:25 section below uh give us some feedback
26:27 give us some information ask us a
26:28 question you know start a little
26:30 spirited discussion but remember to play
26:33 nice just like we did here uh you can
26:36 also email us at T3 tr.com you can join
26:39 us on the traz forums at forums. tr.com
26:42 don't forget to like this video
26:43 subscribe so you get the notification
26:45 for the next one we will be back next
26:46 week but then we're going to take a
26:48 little bit of a break for the holidays
26:50 probably but we'll try to bring a uh a
26:52 little bit of uh extra gifts for you
26:53 maybe on this coming
