Why do people not know that vitamin D
deficiency can increase dementia risk by
80%. Why do people not know that having
a lack of this mineral is affecting
their long-term risk of cancer? Why do
people not know that having a low
omega-3 index is as bad for you in terms
of mortality as smoking? And as a
scientist, I've seen firsthand that 70%
of the way you're aging is actually due
to your lifestyle. And all these things
are so easy to do. So for example, as we
age, certain areas of the brain which is
involved in learning and memory starts
to shrink by about 1 to 2% per year. The
good news is studies show that people
being part of an exercise protocol, not
only did they not have their hippocampus
shrink, it actually grew by 1 to 2%. And
there's more. There are other things
that don't even require as much effort
as exercise, like supplements. And it's
been shown study after study that if you
take someone and you sleep deprive them
for 21 hours and give them 25 to 30
grams of creatine, not only does it
negate the cognitive deficits of sleep
deprivation, it makes people function
better than if they were well rested.
And then there's magnesium. There have
been studies showing that people with
the highest magnesium levels have a 40%
lower all-c cause mortality. And over
300 different enzymes in your body need
it to help with short-term survival. And
yet 50% of the population in the United
States does not have adequate levels of
magnesium. And there's still more.
There's saunas, red light therapy,
ketogenic diets, blueberries,
electrolytes. We can talk about all of them.
them. Please.
Please.
Okay. So, I found when you go into this
sauna, something happens. That's
incredible. So,
I see messages all the time in the
comments section that some of you didn't
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could do me a favor and double check if
you're a subscriber to this channel,
that would be tremendously appreciated.
It's the simple, it's the free thing
that anybody that watches this show
frequently can do to help us here to
keep everything going in this show in
the trajectory it's on. So, please do
double check if you've subscribed and uh
thank you so much because in a strange
way you are you're part of our history
and you're on this journey with us and I
appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you.
Dr. Ronda Patrick, you strike me as a
fairly obsessed person.
What is it you're obsessed about and why
are you obsessed about it? Because I can
see from speaking to you previously how
passionate you are about the subjects
we're going to talk to about today. And
so I was I was um I was wondering what
it is about these subjects that is
driving you and what what you're trying
to accomplish.
I've learned through my experience. So I
have a PhD in biomedical science. I've
done research on aging, on cancer, on
metabolism, nutrition, neuroscience, a
lot of different fields, very cross-disciplinary.
cross-disciplinary.
And I've realized over, you know, the
decades of doing research that there are
many different small changes that can be
made that have a really big impact on
our health, what's called our health
span. So, this is essentially being
disease-free uh throughout our life,
being healthy, feeling good. And I'm
sort of obsessed with trying to optimize
that and find a protocol to optimize it
and then share that information with the
world. And it's funny because, you know,
we live in a time now where we've got
access to so much information,
overwhelming amount of information. But
the reality is is that simple important
tools that people can do in their life
right now to drastically improve the way
they age are still not known to the
general population. And so my mission is
to get that knowledge to people so that
they can make these simple changes and
live healthier and feel better.
And what will be the impact on their
lives if they understand that
information and start to implement their
that information on a real sort of
specific practical
in a real specific practical sense.
Well, there are things that people are
deficient in, for example, that they
could simply take a supplement. Vitamin
D is a is a good example that could
affect their disease risk, their
dementia risk. I mean, so you're talking
about quality of life improvement
right now and also later. So, it affects
mood, it affects depression, and it
affects your neurodeenerative disease
risk risk like dementia and Alzheimer's
disease. So there are lowhanging fruits,
things that are simple that you can just
basically fill these gaps. I mean there
are things that are also a little more
effortful and this is where exercise
comes in where you put in this effort
and it just if you could pill up what
exercise does in a pill, I mean it would
be be the biggest blockbuster miracle
drug out there. I mean it blow ozic out
of the water. It'd be I mean just no
comparison. So, um I think I think that
you know again that it's it's these
little things that you can do that is
going to help with depression, help with
mood right now, make you feel better
right now, give you more energy, help
you be more focused, help you be more
motivated, but also affect your
long-term disease risk so that you know
when you're older in life, you're not
demented. And that affects you, it
affects your family. So I think I think
it's it's just an important it's so
important because there are easy things
that can be done that people just don't
know about.
Is there a psychological element to this
where we kind of see aging as an
inevitability so we don't fight it
because we only seem to interfere with
and fight and are motivated by things in
life there where we feel like we've got
an element of control and we see we see
everybody get old and we see everybody
start to you know lean over a little bit
and struggle to walk and get a little
bit more frail. So I think because we've
observed that so much over the last
couple of decades. I'm 30 years just
over 30 years old. I assume that will
happen to me. So I've seen my dad, you
know, get older, get a little bit more
large, lose his lean muscle. So I think,
well, I'm like my dad. I've got the some
of the same genetics. That's inevitable
for me.
So genetics does play a role in the way
you age, but it's a small role. In fact,
70% or more of the way you're aging is
actually due to your lifestyle. Let's
just imagine two 70ish year old men,
okay? John and Rob. And John, you know,
he's razor sharp. He can carry groceries
to his car. He doesn't get out of
breath. You know, I mean, he's he's
feeling healthy. He's be able to he can
walk efficiently, right? And then
there's Rob. And Rob is
forgetting his words. You know, he's not
cognitively sharp. He's out of breath
just from walking to his car. He has a
really hard time carrying groceries.
Genetics only plays a small role in in
those two different outcomes for those
two men. The biggest, I would say, thing
that's dictating the way these two men
age is their lifestyle, with a huge part
of that actually being exercise. Mhm.
And you know, I know we've all heard it
from our mother or grandmother,
great-grandmother. You know, exercise is
is good for you. If you eat healthy and
you exercise, you're going to you're
going to be healthier. And that's like a
general statement, but the reality is it
is so true that exercise affects
everything, you know, down to the
molecular level in terms of like the way
you're aging. So, um, no, it's not just
dictated by genetics and it's not
inevitable and there are things that you
can do to dramatically age better.
So, let's play a little a little game
here. So, imagine that I listened to
your advice and the things that you know
about health, longevity, aging, um, and
I followed all of them, which is very
hard to do because, you know,
implementation is is not the same thing
as knowledge. So, imagine that's person
A, that's Steve A, and then there's
Steve B. I do the exact opposite. Based
on what you know about the science and
about outcomes and expected outcomes,
how would Steve A that followed your advice
advice
live his uh live his life as he ages?
And how would Steve's B, how would his
outcomes be as he ages? Like what would
you if you had to obviously this is like
super you're forecasting here and it's
hypothetical, but what do you think the
variance in these two people's lives
would be? Well, if you're talking about
the extreme ends, like if Steve B was
like eating sugar and smoking and
drinking and just obese and sedentary,
everything that you don't want to,
which is like a lot of the population.
I mean, then you're talking like a
14-year difference in life expectancy,
which is pretty big. But not just life expectancy,
expectancy,
the way your your independence, right,
your your mind, so you'd be forgetful. I
mean, it would just be it would it would
be a terrible quality of life, right?
So, it's not only are you going to die
earlier, you're not you're just not
going to live a good quality of life.
So, so Steve A might be into his 90s and
out surfing, you know, because you're
you've exercised, you've you've given
your body like the right nutrients that
it needs, you've gotten good sleep,
you're not overweight, you're not eating
a lot of refined sugar, all these things
that sort of accelerate the aging
process. And we can talk about different
components of this and how they do
affect the way we age and our disease
risk, but I mean there's there's studies
that show even like a 14-year difference
in life expectancy for like someone
who's morbidly obese versus lean.
So Steve A could be out surfing at 90
and Steve B would be potentially dying
at 75, but also his quality of life
would his health span would diminish
probably in his 40s and 50s, right?
right?
So it's really it's a 14year reduction
in lifespan but potentially a 30 40 year
reduction in health span
in quality of life and health span being
able to be functionally independent
being able to be cognitively sharp feel
good right and your mood I mean all
these things are affected
you must be sitting on some some crazy
ideas because as a biomedical science
you can kind of see as a biomedical
scientist you can see some of the
research and technology that's coming
down the pipe so I'm wondering Before we
get into the the conversation, are there
any big ideas about the future of aging
and longevity that are in your mind that
you think about that are actually really
important to know because as Brian
Johnson has often said to me,
you want to live to to see these breakthroughs.
breakthroughs.
Yes. Yes. I am excited about some gene
therapies and being able to sort of
reprogram our our cells to be more
youthful. So, you know, this is this is
something that was pioneered back in
2006 by Shinya Yamanaka from Japan and
he actually won the Nobel Prize. Why his
research was so important for the field
of aging wasn't really known at that
time. What he had shown is that you
could take a cell that's old and it
could be a any cell. It could be from an
85year-old person with Parkinson's
disease, for example, and you get it.
You know, we're constantly getting skin
cells and sloing them off every day. You
can take one of those cells and add four
different proteins to them. They're
called transcription factors.
Essentially, all that means is they're
kind of like master orchestrators of
many different genes in your body and
how genes are activated and turned on
and doing what they're supposed to or
they're turned off and quiet for the
time that they're supposed to be quiet.
And it's you you add those four proteins
and you can take that 85year-old cell
skin cell from a person with Parkinson
disease and you can make it into what's
called an embryionic stem cell. And it
does that by sort of wiping out the
what's called epiggenome. So people are
familiar with their DNA, right? Well,
the epiggenome is something that sort of
sits on top of your DNA and it
regulates, you know, how your genes are
being expressed or turned on and off,
right? And it sort of brings it back,
reprograms it to this youthful state
where it becomes an embryionic stem
cell. And then that embryionic stem cell
can then form any type of cell in the
body. you can form a heart cell or a
liver cell or a brain cell or a cell
from your eye and so this is called
induced pur potent stem cells and this
was a breakthrough at the time because
it's it was so import it's important for
cell regenerative therapies okay let's
say someone does have Parkinson's
disease and you want you know
Parkinson's disease people are losing
dopamineergic neurons and their
substantia so these are dopamine
producing neurons and dopamine is
important for motivation and it plays a
role in our, you know, cognitive
function, but it's also important for
movement, right? So, um, people with
Parkinson's disease are losing those at
a rapid rate and they lose control of
their motor capabilities. And so, you
want to be able to take an old skin cell
from someone, reprogram it to become a
dopamine neuron and then inject it into
that person, right? It's their own cell,
so they're not going to reject it,
right? So, that was like the big thought
at the time. Fast forward, you know, a
decade or so and a a whole handful of
brilliant aging scientists have
discovered that instead of taking these
old cells and putting these four
proteins on it to become this sort of
stem cell, they can pulse it. Just a
quick little pulse.
What is a pulse? Like an electronic shock?
shock?
No, what I mean is it's just not
incubated for as long of a time period.
So, it's a shorter time interval that
you're putting these four different
transcription factors on top of the cell
that reprogram it, right? And the reason
for the shorter time is that you don't
want it to lose its cellular identity.
So, let's say it was a skin cell. You
want it to stay a skin cell, not become
an embryionic stem cell, but you want it
to be a skin cell from a one-year-old,
not an 85y old.
So, the way to do that is what's called
partial reprogramming. And so they
basically researchers have found that
you can just sort of what I call pulse.
It's partial reprogramming. You're kind
of putting it on for like a shorter
period of time and then that cell keeps
its identity but it's youthful. It wipes
out all the damage, everything that's
accumulated over those those 85 years.
And this has been shown in animal
studies in rodents that if you if you
add these four different transcription
factors and you give them to mice, you
can rejuvenate many of the different
organs. So essentially turning back the
aging clock in different organs in these
mice. Now this obviously has to be
translated to humans, but I think it's
super exciting and I do think it's the
future in terms of solving aging and
rejuvenation, rejuvenating our organs.
And so it's something that I'm pretty
excited about and following closely.
And are they then living longer?
Some of these studies were done in
animals that are what's called
accelerated aging. So yes, they were
living longer in that background of
accelerated aging. Um the question is,
you know, can they live longer if it's
just a normal mouse that's not like an
accelerated aging model? And and these
are things that are all being done right
now. These sorts of studies are in progress.
progress.
Where do you think is the most important
place for us to start this conversation
based on everything you know and maybe
some of the presumably there's some like
foundational stuff, right?
I do. I think the important place to
start would be we're talking about we
were talking about aging as a disease
and I think being sedentary is a disease
and I think that's a good place to
start. What I mean by being sedentary is
not physically active. someone who
doesn't engage in any type of physical activity.
activity.
And what is the spectrum there of, you
know, someone who doesn't move at all
for, you know, 24 hours a day versus
you've got obviously someone that's
constantly running marathons and doing
crazy stuff, but where is where are most
of us on that scale? And are we moving enough?
enough?
Most of us are not moving on that
enough. And most of us are, if you're
talking about globally, we're on that
sedentary scale where we're just not
physically active. we sit at our
computer or our desk or our cubicle, you
know, all day and we're not we're not
actually moving around a lot. Um, and I
say I say sedentaryism
is a disease because it's actually been
shown to
increase the risk of early mortality
even more than diseases that we know of
like type two diabetes, cardiovascular
disease, or even terrible habits like
smoking. So being sedentary actually
could predict early mortality even more
than those diseases. But it it it's
let's take a step back. It's even bigger
than that. There there's this amazing
study. It's called the Dallas bed rest
study. And the study started back in the
1960s. And this is done by probably the
world's most talented cardiovascular
exercise physiologists.
And so Ben Saltine, uh, Jerry Mitchell
were involved in this early study in the
1960s. And what they did was they took
five men, they were college students and
they put them on bed rest. And this is
like 3 weeks of legitimate bed rest.
We're talking they couldn't get up to go
to the bathroom, so they had catheter in
them. They did not move for three week.
The researchers wanted to find out what
happens to your cardiovascular system if
you are not moving around for three
weeks. And now if you think about it,
you know, there's a lot of people that
are undergoing surgery or they have some
sort of bad illness, influenza or
something that keeps them bedridden for
it's not unusual to be 3 weeks to be
honest. So it's not completely irrelevant.
irrelevant.
And what was found is after that 3
weeks, you know, their cardiovascular
system was just tanked. And one of the
major they they were probably the some
of the most wellstied men at the time.
And um one of the biggest factors that
was measured was their cardiorespiratory
fitness. This is often called V2 max.
And essentially it's the maximum amount
of oxygen that you can breathe in and
your lungs then breathe that oxygen to
your muscles. And it's measured during
maximal exercise. You're putting in a
maximum effort and that's called your
cardiorespiratory fitness. And we can
talk a little bit more about that. But
their cardiorespir respiratory fitness
tank. And now I mentioned this was in
the 1960s. About 30 years later, and
this is where uh Ben Lavine came into
the study. He's at the UT Southwestern
in Dallas. He's also very one of the
most famous, you know, cardiovascular
exercise physiologists out there right
now. They found these five men from 30
years earlier and they measured their
cardiorespiratory fitness and a variety
of other parameters that they had
measured at the time. And what they
found was that three weeks of bed rest
was worse on their cardiorespiratory
fitness than 30 years of aging. So
essentially their cardiorespiratory
fitness was no worse 30 years later than
it was after their 3 weeks of bed rest
which is kind of amazing because you
would think that the 30 years of aging
would be worse on your cardiorespiratory
fitness than the three weeks of bed
rest. And it's the same the same individuals,
individuals,
the same individuals, the same five men.
Um, now after the three weeks of bed
rest, you know, back back in the 1960s,
they were able to get their
cardiorespiratory fitness back up again
once they started exercising and moving
around and it took a while. But when you
look at their baseline levels, their
baseline cardiorespiratory fitness and
you compare it to their
cardiorespiratory fitness baseline 30
years later, it wasn't worse than what
happened when they they compared it to
the 3 weeks of bed rest. And you might
go, well,
why is that so significant? The
cardiorespiratory fitness dropping. We
know that cardiorespiratory fitness is
one of the best predictors of longevity.
So there are studies that have shown
that people with a high
cardiorespiratory fitness
live five years longer than people with
a low cardiorespiratory fitness. That's,
you know, pretty big difference. They're
they're basically 80% less likely to die
of many different causes of of death. So
cardiovascular disease, cancer,
respiratory disease, things like that
than people with a low cardiorespiratory
fitness. So you're really getting, you
know, a five-year increased life
expectancy. You're sort of pushing and
delaying those age related diseases like
cardiovascular disease, you know, like
cancer, for example, you're pushing them
down later in life. So you're not you're
not dying from them sooner. And we do
know that really
just going getting anywhere out of that
low cardiorespiratory fitness. So people
with the low cardiorespiratory fitness
are people that are sedentary. And if
you just move anywhere above that, even
if you're going low from low bad to like
low normal, you're gaining about two
years increase in life expectancy. And
that's not really that hard to do. But
if you think about cardiorespiratory
fitness, like right here, just having
this conversation, actually even just
sitting quietly, it takes about three
milliliters of oxygen per minute per
kilogram body weight to do that. to
carry groceries to your car, it takes
about 11 milliliters of oxygen per
minute per body weight, per kilogram
body weight.
And so as you're aging, you're kind of
heading towards this cliff, right?
Because your cardiorespiratory fitness
goes down with age. It does. That's what
happens naturally. If you're at the
point where you don't work on your
cardiorespiratory fitness, if you're not
being physically active, and there are
certain exercises that are better at
improving cardiorespiratory fitness than
other others, if you're not trying to
improve it, you're going to be heading
towards that cliff faster. And then
everything becomes a maximal effort.
You're out of breath just talking.
You're out of breath carrying groceries
to your car. Everything is a maximal
effort. And you don't want to be there.
You don't that that quality of life is
not good. It's not good. Right. And then
on top of that, you're also going to die
sooner. So you're talking about two
things here. You're talking about
decreased health span and decreased lifespan.
lifespan.
So yeah, we should be moving more,
right? And the question is, well, how do
you improve your cardior fitness? Right.
Yeah. I mean,
do you lift weights? Do you go for runs?
Do you bike? What is it that is really
good at improving cardior fitness? And
that's the question that a lot of
exercise physiologists have answered
over the last couple of decades. You
want to do and engage in what's called
vigorous intensity exercise. So this is
the kind of exercise where you're not
able to have a conversation when you're
engaged in it. Right? So so your heart
rate is going up to about 80% your max
heart rate. You're not able to really
talk. And it's I would say you know it's
something that can be done in intervals.
So you can do highintensity interval
training. So you have these intervals
where you're getting your heart rate up,
you're doing vigorous exercise, and then
you have recovery periods where you're
kind of resting. You're you're lowering
your heart rate. You're not doing that
max that maximal sort of exercise. And I
say this because
there have been studies, multiple
studies that have shown people that
engage in moderate intensity exercise.
So this is the kind of exercise when you
can you're breathy, but you can still
kind of have somewhat of a conversation
while you're doing it.
Like the stair master. like the
stairmaster. Yeah, exactly. Um, even
people that are engaging in that type of
exercise for two and a half hours a
week, so this is following the physical
activity guidelines, 40% of those people
can't improve their cardiorespiratory fitness.
fitness.
And it's like, well, I don't know about
you, but like I don't want it to be a
coin toss in terms of like if I'm doing
that kind of exercise, well, if I have a
50% chance of not improving my
cardiorespiratory fitness if I'm doing
this. I want the sure thing. And the
short thing is you take those people and
then you have them engage in
highintensity interval training and
they're able to improve their
cardiorespiratory fitness. And that's because
because
you you're putting a stronger stress on
your cardiovascular system. And so the
adaptations are greater. And part of the
adaptations are you're able to bring in
more oxygen, carry it to your muscles,
carry it to your your you know other
other tissues better. And so that's your
cardiorespiratory fitness. Uh and so and
so that's that's really I would say um
the bottom line here is engaging in even
just once or twice a week. And I would I
would say the the most wellressearched
protocol for that would be something
called the Norwegian 4x4.
And that is where you're doing a longer
interval. It's a 4-minute interval and
it's best done on either a stationary
bike or maybe a rowing machine. And
you're going as hard as you can and
maintain that intensity for four
minutes. And then you're going to go
down to light exercise and recover for
four minutes and let your heart rate go
down. And you do that four times. So
it's a four by four. And that is
probably one of the most robust ways to
improve cardiorespiratory fitness. But
there are other ways even doing you know
one minute on one minute off. So you do
one minute as hard as you can go again
for that entire minute. not going all
out, but as hard as you can and maintain
that for the entire minute. And then you
rest a minute and you do that, you know,
10 times. So, it's a 20-minute workout.
So, for the several million people that
are listening right now, if you had to
prescribe them all something to do and
it was the minimum they had to do.
Tell me what exactly the workout would
look like and how frequent it would be
on a weekly basis.
I would say the minimum effective dose
would be once a week. Okay.
And it would probably be
the one minute on, one minute off. If
you want like the upper end robust
effects of improving cardiorespiratory
fitness, you can still improve it with
something like a Tabata.
What's a Tabata?
Where you're doing a 20 second interval
and you're going more all out because
it's shorter time and then you're
recovering for 10 seconds.
So, it's a 20 second on, 10 second off.
You do that eight times. And um if you
repeat that twice, so it's essentially a
10-minute workout, that's also something
that can improve cardiorespiratory
fitness. But I would say, and I'll tell
you I'll tell you why. There's the
minimum, right? So the one minute on,
one minute off. But I would say the
Norwegian 4x4 is the gold standard. And
that's because it's not only improving
cardiorespiratory fitness.
This is probably one of the most exciting
exciting
pieces of evidence I've seen with
respect to, you know, exercise and
aging. And that is that being part of an
exercise protocol was shown to reverse
the structural changes that occur with
age in the heart by 20 years.
So what do I mean by that? I mean,
people that were 50 years old that were
sedentary, so they weren't really going
to the gym, they weren't engaging in any
sort of physical activity, but they
weren't, you know, they didn't have
diseases. They didn't have type two
diabetes, they didn't have
cardiovascular disease. I would argue
sedentary, being sedentary is a disease,
but putting that aside, they didn't have
any diseases, right? And they're 50, so
they're midlife.
And um this was again this was done by
Ben Lavine out of UT uh Southwest at in
Dallas. He took these you know
50-year-olds and put them on a pretty
intense exercise routine for two years
or a stretching routine. This was like
the the control.
And this type of exercise routine was
progressive. So they started out lighter
and sort of worked their way up, right?
Like you don't want to just start with a
Norwegian 4x4 people that never never
exercise. I mean that's going to be
tough. So it was a progressive sort of
building up to that. But um towards the
ends of about the first six months,
these people were exercising about 5 to
six hours a week and that included one
to two sessions of the Norwegian 4x4.
And it also included a lot of, you know,
they're they're doing moderate to
vigorous intensity cycling or running
and some some strength training as well.
And they did this for two years.
their hearts were looked at and so as we
age our hearts shrink and they get
stiffer and that plays a role in causing
cardiovascular disease. I mean that's
the number one killer in the United
States. It also affects
cardiorespiratory fitness right why does
the the heart you know stiffen with time
has a lot to do with actually being
exposed to a lot of glucose when you're
eating a lot of refined sugar and
refined carbohydrates you're having a
lot of glucose around in your system.
This causes a chemical reaction called
glycation. So you get these advanced
glycation end products that sort of
react with your collagen that's lining
your heart and your mocardium and it
causes it to stiffen and so now the
heart can't really respond to stress
well. It's stiff and that plays a role
in like heart attacks for example. So
exercise is one of the best things you
can do to
move glucose out of your vascular system
and get it to your muscles. And so
that's that's one of the things that it
does and helps with not causing that
stiffening of the heart. And so
essentially these 50-year-olds had
their their heart the structure so it
was bigger and less stiff after two
years of this you know exercise
protocol. It essentially made their
hearts look like 30 year olds. And I
mentioned they were 50 year olds. I
mean, that's amazing. That's incredible
that you can take someone midlife, put
them on a two-year training protocol,
and reverse the aging of their heart by
20 years.
So, on this Norwegian 4x4,
you've convinced me to give it a shot.
But specifically, how I how I do that.
So, it's it's I do my warmup and then I
do four minutes of hard exercise. I take
a break and the exercise I'm doing in
those four minutes can be any number of
things but I just have to get up to 85
80% of my exertion levels 80% difficulty.
difficulty.
So the way it works is as they mentioned
it's it's best if you're doing a
cardiovascular type of exercise. So like
the assault bike
you could do assault bike. Yep. Assault
bike. You can do a rowing machine. You
could do uh stationary cycling machine
as well.
Could I run?
You can, but that is is it's definitely
um it's I think it's better on on doing
like maybe a bike or a salt bike or
something. Um but you can run like what
whatever it is that you like to do and
you are going as hard as you can for
that four minutes and maintain within
that four minutes. So it's not an allout
or it's far from all out, right? But
you're not really having a conversation
while you're doing it. And then the four
minutes of recovery, you're if you're
running, you kind of go down to walking.
If you're on the rowing machine or the
assault bike, you're just going very
slow. You're just really going slow and
you're letting your heart rate come
down. You're letting your muscles kind
of recover, your cardiorespiratory
fitness, you know, kind your your
cardiorespiratory fitness system recover
somewhat. And then after that 4-minute
recovery, you go back to the four
minutes of like intense again. And
you're doing that four times. It's not
easy, but you know, people can start
out, they don't I mean, even if you
start out with not going super super
hard in those four minutes where you
just maybe you can have a conversation,
but you're still going hard harder than
you're used to pushing yourself. And I
think for people that haven't really
engaged in any type of high-intensity
training before, that's a good idea
where you kind of you got you can't just
start doing it
right out the gate. You want to kind of
work your way up that. So doing the four
minutes do just try to put in as much
effort as you can right during those
four minutes and then you do your
recovery and you repeat that four times
but then work your way up as you as you
do it one week, two weeks, you know, a
month later, two months later and really
try then to get to that point where
during those four minutes you're
getting, you know, you're pushing
yourself hard where you're not really
able to have that conversation
and physiologically what is going on in
my body when I get to that 85 90% effort
range and I and I stay there for a
couple of minutes. That doesn't occur
when I'm doing my stair master.
I mean, so many things are are
happening. I mean, there's a lot of
different, I would say, physiological
responses that are
You've got a big smile on your face when
I ask.
Yes, I do because it's, you know, one of
my favorite things to talk about and it
has to do with when you're when you're
pushing yourself really hard, you need
you need to make energy, right? And the
way that most of our cells make energy,
like our muscles, is by using our
mitochondria, these are tiny organels
inside of our cells that produce energy,
but they need oxygen to do it. So that's
where the oxygen comes into play. When
you start to push yourself really hard,
you can't get the oxygen to your muscles
quick enough, but you need to make the
energy. And so your body decides to make
energy in the form of ATP without the
mitochondria, and it uses glucose to do that.
that.
and you're not making as many of those
ATP energy molecules, but you're still
making them and you're making them
quick. And that's what your your body
wants to do. And and so it's using
glucose to do that without the mitochondria,
mitochondria,
but as a byproduct, it's making
something called lactate. And this is
what gets me so excited because, you
know, for the longest time, lactate was
thought to be this just metabolic
byproduct of glucose metabolism. you
know where you're when you're pushing
yourself really hard anorobic it's
called anorobic by the way you're not
you're not only anorobic you're just
some somewhat anorobic you're still use
producing energy with your mitochondria
it's just you're also producing without
the mitochondria it's not like a a sort
of black black and white sort of thing
right it's a little bit gray
but the reality is you're producing
something called lactate and for the
longest time it was thought this lactate
oh it's just it's bad because you know
it can form lactic acid and that burns
forms that burn in your muscles. And you
know, this was, you know, decades ago.
And we now know from the work of George
Brooks out of UC Berkeley that lactate
itself isn't causing the burn. And not
only is it not causing the burn, it's
like a miracle molecule that's being
made. This metabolite lactate gets into
your circulation and it gets consumed by
your heart, by your brain, by your
liver, and it's used for energy. It's
very it's it's very much similar to beta
hydroxybutyrate that ketone body that
you always hear about people talk about
when they're fasting or doing a
ketogenic diet. It's actually very
similar to that. It gets used it gets
transported through the same transporter
and it's used like energy. Very similar
to that. Um but what's more exciting is
that lactate is a way for your muscles
to communicate with other organs like
the brain. And it's called a signaling
molecule. So, it's your muscles are
going, I'm working really hard. This is
really hard. We have to respond to this
work. We have to adapt. And so, your
body goes, okay, I got to like turn on
all this awesome stuff that I have
because I'm working so hard. I need to
respond to that so that like I'm I'm
good, right? And so, what happens is the
lactate, this has been shown, it gets
consumed a lot by the brain. And in the
brain, it it activates something called
brain drive neurotrphic factor, BDNF.
And this is kind of like a miracle grow
for your brain. So essentially, it's
able to increase the growth of new
neurons, which is amazing. It's called
neurogenesis. It increases the
connections between neurons. So it
improves memory, cognition, and then um
it's involved in what's called
neuroplasticity. So the ability of your
brain to adapt to a changing
environment. This is all from lactate.
Um, and it also increases
neurotransmitters like norepinephrine,
so focus and attention, serotonin, your
your mood, you're feeling better,
you're, you know, motivated. All these
things are happening because of lactate.
And there's been studies in humans
showing that people that are compared
working hard, working out hard, vigorous
exercise versus sort of moderate to
light exercise, they make more lactate.
And that lactate, you know, it's been
shown that high levels of lactate are
correlated with improved cognition
scores, uh, improved impulse control. So
serotonin plays a role in impulse
control. So you're able to not just go
on your impulse, right? You're you're
able to kind of like, which is great if
you want more focus and attention,
right? So this is this is all really
exciting stuff because it all comes down
to just it's it's like your muscles are
these little chemical pharmaceutical
factories and the way to make them make
these pharmaceuticals is to work them to
challenge them and that can be done with
an easy highintensity interval training
protocol. A variety of them Norwegian
4x4 can increase brain drive neurotrphic
factor that's been shown. The one minute
on one minute off protocol also has been
shown to increase that again through the
lactate. So that's one of the big sort
of I would say differences between
vigorous intensity exercise and more of
that moderate intensity or like low
intensity exercise. And I honestly
think, you know, I think the guidelines,
you know, everyone's sort of obsessed
with steps. I need to get my 10,000
steps in, my 10,000 steps. And they have
wear wearable devices, and I think
that's great, but I think we need to
change the 10,000 steps to at least 10
minutes of vigorous intensity exercise.
like you could do 10 minutes of, you
know, any type of exercise that's really
going to get your heart rate up and it's
going to be so much better. So, this is
a really dumb question, but it's the
question that I had in my mind, which is
if lactate is such a miracle drug,
drug,
why can't I just drink it? Why can't I
just get get a shot of lactate versus
having to go through vigorous interval
training? It's a great question,
Stephen, because um there have been
studies that have been done looking at,
for example, traumatic brain injury
patients. So, people that have undergone
some sort of head trauma and they've
infused sodium lactate through like an IV
IV
into their, you know, system and the
lactate immediately gets consumed by the
brain and it's been shown to improve
their recovery. So, it's called the
Glasgow score. You may have heard of it,
but it's kind of essentially this
battery of tests that's done to sort of
assess how someone's recovering from
traumatic brain injury. And the sodium
lactate does improve that. So there are
you can find out there, you know,
different types of lactate that you can consume.
consume.
And theoretically, it should help, but
what happens is when you consume the lactate,
lactate,
lactate actually gets used by the gut.
So a lot of it's going into the gut
cells before it gets into your
circulation. There's always a trade-off
with these bloody things whenever you
try and trick the system or shortcut the
system by like drinking something. I
feel like there's a trade-off which
people don't talk about a lot.
Well, the thing is is that I it is good
for the gut. In fact, a former colleague
of mine, Mark Chanaga, has shown that
lactate is really beneficial for for uh
the gut epithelial cells. In fact, if
you think about it, all these sort of
beneficial probiotic bacteria like
bifido bacterium for example, they're
producing lactic acid and that lactic
acid does get converted into lactate.
It's sort of like this physiological
homeostasis where you have uh the
difference of just a hydrogen atom. So
you're having lactic acid and lactate
sort of in this equilibrium so to speak.
But um those those bacteria in your gut
are making lactate essentially. And the
reason it's so good is because it is an
very e easily utilizable source of
energy for the gut cells. So, not to
like go off on a tangent here, yes,
there is always a tradeoff, especially
for doing something orally, but when it
comes to exercise,
there's so like I mentioned when we
first started talking about exercise, if
you could pill up what exercise does,
I mean, it's so many things, right? It's
not just the lactate. Yeah.
Yeah.
So many different things, so many
different adaptations that occur. I mean
it would be a miracle drug. So there's
you're not just getting the lactate,
you're getting the, you know, the
improvement in cardiorespiratory
fitness. You're getting the muscular
response, right? The adaptations to your
muscle. Um you're you're increasing
stress response genes like heat shock
proteins that are important for
preventing neurodeenerative disease.
You're making antioxidants because the
inflammation that you're generating
while you're exercising. There's
hundreds and hundreds of things that are
happening all in concert from exercise
and you just can't you can't pill it up.
I have another really silly question
which is if lactate and these other
things even like creatine and you know
all these other things are so good for
me why doesn't my body just make more of it?
it?
I mean your body does make it. The the
problem is is that you know as we're
aging everything becomes less efficient.
everything doesn't do what it used to do
as well as it did when it was younger.
Um, and it and also in the in the case
of creatine, which we can talk about,
you know, later if you're interested,
then um, you know, your body only makes
so much of it. And
why doesn't it make more?
I don't, you know,
maybe I'm not giving it the the minerals
or the environment it needs naturally to
make more.
I don't know.
You you get it from your food, too.
Creatine is found in meat, in poultry,
and fish. So, probably that's why your
body doesn't make more of it because it
knows you're going to be getting it from
your diet as well.
And so, that is another way to get creatine.
creatine. Okay.
Okay.
Of course, the vegans and the
vegetarians, that's a whole other
ballgame because they aren't eating meat
and so they're really essentially only
relying on what their body can make.
We'll definitely talk about that later.
Um on this point of the brain then if if
I I don't want to be an older person who
can't remember things and stutters over
my words and falls into cognitive
decline. And I'm I'm 32 now. So I'm I
feel like I'm at a moment in time where
I can really make decisions now that
have a really big impact on my
90-year-old brain and my ability to
think straight and clearly and remember
things. Are there things that I can be
doing now that will have a profound
impact on my cognitive performance at 90?
90?
Yes. And what are those things?
Absolutely. Well, first of all, just to
kind of wrap up the exercise story
because I think this study is so
profound and in fact it wasn't done in
32 year olds. It was done in older
adults. So, we're talking 60 year olds
or a little bit older. And these
individuals were put on a aerobic
exercise training program for one year
that was more of like a 70 to 75% max
heart rate. It wasn't so vigorous, but
it was pretty pretty vigorous for them,
right? And um the the basis of this
study was to look at brain aging. As we
age, I mentioned our heart aging, right?
It gets stiffer and shrinks with age.
Our brain also shrinks with age. It's
called atrophy. And as we age,
especially starting in midlife, so
around the age of 50, your your brain
and certain areas of the brain like the
hippocampus, which is involved in
learning and memory, starts to shrink by
about 1 to 2% per year.
I don't want that to happen.
Same. Same. The good news is um in this
study, after a year of this sort of
aerobic exercise training program, they
were doing three times a week about 30
minutes a day. Really not even that
intense. these individuals and then
there was a control group that was kind
of the stretching they like to use the
stretching as the control group. So that
let's talk about the the control group,
the stretching group. They did lose
about 1 to 2% in terms of the size of
their hippocampus, it shrunk one to 2%
after that year, which is what you would
expect normally. However, the group that
was training, not only did they not have
their hippocampus shrink by 1 to 2%, it
actually grew by 1 to 2%. which comes
down to that neurogenesis, that growth
of new neurons, the brain drive
neurotrphic factor that's able to do
that. You're actually able to grow new
neurons even when you're in the age of
50, which is amazing. It's incredible.
So, that study I love because a couple
of reasons. one, it shows that it's
possible to not only stave off, you
know, some of the components of brain
aging, but to reverse it and increase
it, right, through exercise. And number
two, I love it because it's never too
late. Like, you can start this, you
know, in your 60s and still have a
benefit, right? you're you're talking
about being in your 30s, but you know,
some people watching this show,
listening to the show, may already be in
their 50s or 60s, right? So, it's never
too late.
Um, likewise, you know, we're talking
about being cognitively sharp and not
getting dementia. There's also studies
showing that people like women that were
brought into the lab, they had their
cardiorespiratory fitness measured,
those women with the highest
cardiorespiratory fitness were 80% less
likely to come down with dementia over
the follow-up period of time. So it
again, I think exercise is one of the
big ones when it comes to brain aging.
But you asked an important question. and
you say, "What can I be doing now that's
going to affect the way my brain ages,
you know, for the subsequent decades of
my life?" And there are other things
that can also be done that don't even
require as much effort as exercise.
Exercise is the gold standard because I
mean, being able to not only, you know,
stave off atrophy of the of the brain,
but to like regrow some of it is
incredible, right? I mean, that's just
mind-blowing. Have they ever taken
people with dementia, Alzheimer's, and
put them on an exercise program and
monitored the decline of their cognitive
abilities on an exercise program?
Yes. I mean, it's it's much harder when
you already have someone who
is in that pathological state because
things just really snowball and
accelerate. And there are some benefits.
I mean,
but it's not it's not prevention is
always the best. Prevention is always
the best. And so, you know, I I think
that if there's any sort of take-home
here, it's that like let's let's try to
do what we can now so that we don't get
to that point
before we get into the the the easier
Do do we know what causes dementia and
Alzheimer's yet? Do do we have any
ideas? Because we can when they do the
brain imaging, they can kind of see
these plaques on the brain, they say. that
that
I mean there's a lot of different it's
multiffactorial which means there's a
lot of different causes of dementia and
Alzheimer's disease so I would say you
mentioned plaques amaloid beta plaques
what happens is you know that's the
aggregation of a protein in our brain
called amalloid that typically is
cleared from our brain and um what
happens is this abnormal
you know thing happens where you're not
clearing the amaloid and so it starts to
kind of form these clumps and aggregates
with the amaloid proteins that are not
being cleared. And that essentially is
happening outside of your neurons, but
it's happening where the synapses are
formed between neurons. And so what
happens is it kind of disrupts the
synaptic connection between neurons,
which is essentially forming a memory.
And so when you start to disrupt that
connection, you lose not only the the
memories start to go away, but the whole
purpose of the neuron is to kind of I
mean one of the purposes is to to form a
memory. And so you start to like neurons
start to die, right? When they start to
lose their purpose. Amaloid aggregation
is linked to a lot of things. So, for
example, I mentioned it being cleared
when we sleep, particularly when we're
in our deep sleep stage, slowwave sleep.
That is um something happens that's kind
of incredible. It's called activation of
the glimpmphatic system. So, you've
heard of the lymphatic system. Well, the
glimpmphatic system is essentially this
series of like networks and like almost
like these like highways and essentially
roads and stuff all like throughout the
brain where you're squirting this
cerebral spinal fluid throughout the
brain and it's clearing away all the
garbage things like proteins that didn't
get cleared and it's sort of squirting
them out and clearing them out through
this lymphatic system. that lymphatic
system is activated during sleep and
it's one of the reasons why people that
don't get good sleep over the course of
decades have a higher risk of
Alzheimer's disease is because they're
getting these amaloid plaques built up
in their brains but there's other causes
as well so for example glucose
metabolism is disrupted in the brains of
Alzheimer's disease you need glucose
your neurons need glucose and so you
know the essentially um your your brain
isn't able to make energy correctly
without the glucose getting into your
brain. And so that's another sort of
metabolic underlying cause of
Alzheimer's disease where you're
essentially I mean it's thought to be
where you're eating a lot of refined
carbohydrates, refined sugars and you're
not exercising and essentially you're
you're disrupting the glucose metabolism
in the brain as well as the whole body.
Right? So the brain and body are
connected but um there's also genetic
causes as well and you know some people
have genes that can increase the risk of
Alzheimer's disease because they're not
able to clear amaloid as well because
they're not able to repair damage as
well. So the the bloodb brain barrier
which is really important for filtering
out toxic things from getting into the brain
brain
it starts to break down and that's one
of the I would say early early signs of
Alzheimer's disease is that breakdown of
the bloodb brain barrier and that
happens in people that have a genetic
risk factor called APOE4. You may have
heard of this but this is probably one
of the biggest
genetic risk factors for Alzheimer's
disease. About 25% of the population has
one copy of this gene. That increases
the risk of Alzheimer's disease by
twofold. If you have two copies of it,
it increases the risk of Alzheimer's
disease by tenfold.
So twofold being 200%.
Twofold being twice twice as much. Yeah.
200%. And 10fold being a,000%. Right.
You're you're you're basically I mean
it's it's pretty bad. And it's not like a
a
it's not your destiny to get the
Alzheimer's disease if you have those
genes. You can do things in your
lifestyle that can sort of turn the
table. So you're not you're not
necessarily going to be getting that
that Alzheimer's disease and a lot of
different lifestyle factors like getting
good sleep, like exercising, avoiding
alcohol, avoiding smoking, not being
overweight and obese. Like those affect
your Alzheimer's disease risk.
More importantly, if you have one of
those genes, then you really have to be
cognizant of those things because if you
have one of those, you know, ApoE4
genes, then then essentially your
lifestyle matters even more than people
that don't.
And you can do a test to figure out if
you have those genes.
Yes. Yes. There's a a variety of genetic
testing services that can be done.
pretty much all the ones that are out
there on on the market, you know,
ancestry DNA. I mean, depending on where
you live and what there's so many out
there right now that that will test for that.
that.
Mortified if I found out I had two of
those genes.
Two of them is less common. When I
mentioned the 25% of the population
having it, it's usually one alil.
Alcohol essentially can really increase
the risk of Alzheimer's disease if you
have one of those genes. And I think
that there's really no safe amount of
alcohol that can be consumed for people
that have APOE4. if you're concerned
about dementia and Alzheimer's disease.
The other thing is contact sports and
traumatic brain injury. people that have
any of the, you know, any one or two of
the APOE4 genes, if they have that, then
if they get a TBI, like if they're
playing American football or they're
playing soccer or MMA or boxing, whatever,
whatever,
then you talk about like going up to a
10-fold risk for Alzheimer's disease
when you get like an injury because
people with those genes don't repair
damage as well.
So, it affects their their brain's
ability to repair damage. And so that's
also really important to consider.
So moving back then to this the simple
things that we can do to improve our
cognitive performance as we age, the
things that are simpler than doing the
vigorous hit training.
There's actually quite a few. And first
and foremost, the one I love the most is
a simple multivitamin.
And the reason I love this is because
I don't know it was about 10 years ago
there was a a huge study that was
published and it was published in the
Annals of Internal Medicine and it was
called Enough is Enough. Multivitamins
are not only useless, they're harmful
and it was essentially looking at a
variety of studies and arguing that
multivitamins are expensive urine.
You're just not really doing anything.
And in fact, if you take a multivitamin,
you might even be increasing the risk of disease.
disease.
That study was terrible. And I 10 years
ago went and just broke it down and, you
know, pulled it apart piece by piece.
But here we are 10 years later. Three
large clinical trials have been done.
And these are randomized control trials
where older adults were given either a
multivitamin and this was just your
standard run-of-the-mill multivitamin
Centrum silver or they were given a
placebo and they were given this for a
couple of years.
And what three different studies showed
was that a multivitamin improved
cognition, improved processing speed, it
improved what's called episodic memory.
So the kind of memory where you're
remembering experiences and you can
recall events, things like that. And not
only did it improve it, it improved it
so much that it was equivalent to
reducing the aging of the episodic
memory by 5 years. So a simple
multivitamin and why is that important?
Because you know multivitamins have a
variety of these vitamins and minerals
that we're not getting from our diet
that are important for everything. for
metabolism, for the way our
neurotransmitters are firing, for
reducing damage that's causing, you
know, oxidative stress, right? So, a
simple multivitamin, how much easier can
it be than taking a simple multivitamin?
And the fact of the matter is that we're
talking about a randomized control
trial. This is showing cause, right?
This isn't just an association. This is
showing that you took a multivitamin for
a couple of years and improved your
cognition more than a placebo. So, I
think that's pretty incredible and it's
one of the examples that I like.
But, um, diving deeper into some of the
the nutrients, this is this is an area,
you know, I started out as a scientist.
I started out as a chemist actually. But
when I first got into biology,
I was working in an aging lab and
studying aging. It was very interesting
to me because I essentially with my own
experiments with my own two hands could
could manipulate these like tiny little
worms. They're called sea elegance and
their whole genome was sequenced at the
time and this was like in the early
2000s and um they have a lot of genes
that are similar to humans. It's called
homology and one of the genes is the
insulin signaling pathway and the IGF-1
pathway. So insulin signaling would be
something that's activated with glucose.
You're eating a lot of sugar, right? And
I could take these worms and I could
genetically decrease their insulin
signaling. So it kind of, if you think
about a parallel to that, that would be,
okay, we're not going to be eating as
much sugar, right? We're not going to be
activating that pathway so much. Mhm.
And I could do that in this worm that
has a life expectancy of about 15 days
and I could extend its life expectancy
to 30 days, right? So you're increasing
its life expectancy by pretty much, you
know, 100%. Right? Well, not only did
they, you know, live longer, they were
healthier and youthful, and you could
see that visually, they're moving around
and they were just youthful worms. And
so I was very excited about this, you
know, in my 20s because I was like,
"Wow, this is very relevant. We have
this gene and we know lifestyle factors
that affect it, right? Sugar." So the
takehome for me was
lifestyle matters, you know? Yeah,
genetics, maybe that'll be something one
day where we're decreasing the insulin
signal. But I was looking for the now,
not the future technology. And so the
now to me was wow, like I don't want to
be constantly activating my, you know,
insulin signaling pathway. like look
what happens to these worms if you
reduce it. I mean it's amazing. They're
youthful and they live longer. And so I
started to kind of get into diet and
lifestyle sort of just out of curiosity
and sort of reading in the literature
and I came across some studies from my
mentor Dr. Bruce Ames where he was
showing that not getting enough
nutrients like for example folate.
Folate is found in dark leafy greens
like kale. You know, folate if you if
you if you decrease folate and make
someone deficient in it, it essentially
causes doublestranded breaks in your DNA
that essentially is like being under
ionizing radiation. And that experiment
was done like you could take a mouse
make it like put low folate in the in
you know the mouse's food and then take
another mouse and put it under an
ionizing radiation machine and the
amount of double stranded breaks in
their DNA which cause cancer which
accelerate aging which affect every
every you know how how your your cells
are functioning it was the same. So, it
was like, wow.
Not having a certain nutrient in your
diet was like standing under a radiating
machine, ionizing radiation. No one's
going to want to stand under an ionizing
radiation machine, but no one's thinking
about how your diet can do the same
thing. Um, and that was kind of I got
into a lot of Bruce's Bruce's research
at the time. So, Bruce,
he anyone in the in the science field
knows Dr. Bruce Ames. actually came up
with the Ames carcinogen test and that
essentially was a way of cheaply looking
at and identifying whether something's a
carcinogen and he got into sort of
nutrition as he started to figure things
like folate basically being lack of
folate being a carcinogen essentially
right like ionizing radiation is a carcinogen
carcinogen
and then he started to go on to other
nutrients as well like magnesium and B
vitamins but I think for me the aha
moment was
micronutrients and these vitamins and
minerals are affecting the way we age,
are affecting our health on a similar
level as these toxic things that we're
worried about like ionizing radiation.
And nobody's thinking about it like that.
that.
So, I'll give you an example. Vitamin D,
you talked about dementia, what's going
to help prevent dementia. Vitamin D is,
it's actually more than a vitamin.
Vitamin D gets converted into a steroid
hormone. So, a steroid hormone
essentially what it does is it goes into
the nucleus of a cell where all your DNA is and it it's activating genes and
is and it it's activating genes and deactivating them. It's affecting your
deactivating them. It's affecting your genome and it's actually over 5% of your
genome and it's actually over 5% of your your your genome is being affected by
your your genome is being affected by vitamin D. Why is that important?
vitamin D. Why is that important? Because
Because 70% of the US population has
70% of the US population has insufficient levels of vitamin D. The
insufficient levels of vitamin D. The reason for that is because vitamin D3 is
reason for that is because vitamin D3 is actually made in the skin from UVB
actually made in the skin from UVB radiation from the sun. And so if you're
radiation from the sun. And so if you're not outside, then you're not really
not outside, then you're not really making a lot of vitamin D3 in your skin.
making a lot of vitamin D3 in your skin. And vitamin D3 then gets converted into
And vitamin D3 then gets converted into this steroid hormone that regulates
this steroid hormone that regulates everything, right? And so um you know
everything, right? And so um you know modern day society, you know, we're
modern day society, you know, we're inside all the time. We're working.
inside all the time. We're working. We're not outside. And even if you were
We're not outside. And even if you were outside, there's so many other factors
outside, there's so many other factors that affect it. So, anything that blocks
that affect it. So, anything that blocks out UVB radiation blocks out the
out UVB radiation blocks out the availability of your body to make
availability of your body to make vitamin D3. So, sunscreen, right? That's
vitamin D3. So, sunscreen, right? That's a big one. Melanin, the the darker
a big one. Melanin, the the darker pigmentation that acts as a natural
pigmentation that acts as a natural sunscreen. And then latitude, depending
sunscreen. And then latitude, depending on where you live, also. So, you know, a
on where you live, also. So, you know, a good number of months out of the year,
good number of months out of the year, if you're in a more northern latitude
if you're in a more northern latitude like England, like Wales, like Chicago
like England, like Wales, like Chicago or Sweden, you're not UVB radiation is
or Sweden, you're not UVB radiation is not even hitting the atmosphere, you
not even hitting the atmosphere, you know, for several months out of the
know, for several months out of the year. Combine that with sunscreen or
year. Combine that with sunscreen or melanin, and you got like this disaster,
melanin, and you got like this disaster, right? In fact, there was a study out of
right? In fact, there was a study out of the University of Chicago that looked at
the University of Chicago that looked at African-Americans and Caucasians
African-Americans and Caucasians and their ability white people.
and their ability white people. Yeah, exactly. Their ability to make
Yeah, exactly. Their ability to make vitamin D3 from UVB radiation
vitamin D3 from UVB radiation from the sun. Yeah.
from the sun. Yeah. And as I mentioned, you know, melanin is
And as I mentioned, you know, melanin is a natural sunscreen. And you know,
a natural sunscreen. And you know, people that are, you know, either, you
people that are, you know, either, you know, from African origin or South
know, from African origin or South American or Southeast Asian, right?
American or Southeast Asian, right? People that are closer to the equator
People that are closer to the equator usually have more melanin. It's an it's
usually have more melanin. It's an it's an adaptation to prevent you from
an adaptation to prevent you from burning from the UV rays of the sun.
burning from the UV rays of the sun. Well, um, this University of Chicago
Well, um, this University of Chicago study found that, um, you know, people
study found that, um, you know, people that are African-American had to stay in
that are African-American had to stay in the sun six to 10 times longer than
the sun six to 10 times longer than people with fair skin, the Caucasians,
people with fair skin, the Caucasians, to make the same amount of vitamin D3.
to make the same amount of vitamin D3. And so, as a consequence, if you take
And so, as a consequence, if you take someone who like yourself, well, you're
someone who like yourself, well, you're you're you got a little bit more mel
you're you got a little bit more mel melanin mixed
melanin mixed a little bit. Yeah, you've got a little
a little bit. Yeah, you've got a little bit more melanin. But let's say you take
bit more melanin. But let's say you take someone who, you know, has a
someone who, you know, has a like my mom, she's Nigerian.
like my mom, she's Nigerian. Okay. Your mom from Yeah. Nigerian. And
Okay. Your mom from Yeah. Nigerian. And let's say your mom moves to Chicago,
let's say your mom moves to Chicago, right?
right? Well, she's moved to bloody England.
Well, she's moved to bloody England. Or she moved to England, right? Exactly.
Or she moved to England, right? Exactly. Then you're talking about a recipe for
Then you're talking about a recipe for disaster in terms of vitamin D because
disaster in terms of vitamin D because you're not only not making it several
you're not only not making it several months out of the year, I forgot how
months out of the year, I forgot how many months out of the year, maybe four
many months out of the year, maybe four or five or something like that where the
or five or something like that where the UVB radiation is not even hitting the
UVB radiation is not even hitting the atmosphere, but you have this natural
atmosphere, but you have this natural sunscreen. What's the consequences of
sunscreen. What's the consequences of that in terms of symptoms?
that in terms of symptoms? Well, it's it's kind it's not like an
Well, it's it's kind it's not like an acute thing where you kind of just look
acute thing where you kind of just look in the mirror and you're like,
in the mirror and you're like, what is the causation then in terms of
what is the causation then in terms of Right. Right. Yeah. So, the reason I say
Right. Right. Yeah. So, the reason I say this is because people always think of
this is because people always think of like, well, I'm not getting enough
like, well, I'm not getting enough vitamin C and I have scurvy and you can
vitamin C and I have scurvy and you can look in the mirror and your gums are
look in the mirror and your gums are falling apart. Right. It's easy to
falling apart. Right. It's easy to identify this. Vitamin D deficiency or
identify this. Vitamin D deficiency or insufficiency is more insidious. It's
insufficiency is more insidious. It's kind of this damage that accumulates
kind of this damage that accumulates over time. it's something that isn't,
over time. it's something that isn't, you know, quite noticeable or maybe
you know, quite noticeable or maybe maybe you're feeling, you know, m maybe
maybe you're feeling, you know, m maybe you're feeling like lethargic or you
you're feeling like lethargic or you don't have enough energy, things like
don't have enough energy, things like that, but you don't really really know
that, but you don't really really know quite why. So, vitamin D insufficiency
quite why. So, vitamin D insufficiency and deficiency, there are acute effects
and deficiency, there are acute effects where like if it's severe, it can cause
where like if it's severe, it can cause ricketetts and like bone mal forations
ricketetts and like bone mal forations and stuff, especially if it's happening
and stuff, especially if it's happening early in life. But um what we now know
early in life. But um what we now know is that being
is that being deficient or insufficient in vitamin D
deficient or insufficient in vitamin D can increase dementia risk by 80%. And
can increase dementia risk by 80%. And that's been shown in multiple studies.
that's been shown in multiple studies. The converse is also true. So people
The converse is also true. So people that supplement with vitamin D3, and
that supplement with vitamin D3, and this is where a simple solution comes
this is where a simple solution comes in, right? So you're not making it from
in, right? So you're not making it from your skin, but you can take a
your skin, but you can take a supplement. People that supplement with
supplement. People that supplement with vitamin D3 have a 40% reduced risk of
vitamin D3 have a 40% reduced risk of dementia. So in other words, they're
dementia. So in other words, they're avoiding deficiency, which is very
avoiding deficiency, which is very common, and avoiding that deficiency
common, and avoiding that deficiency then is reducing their dementia risk.
then is reducing their dementia risk. And there's actually even been studies
And there's actually even been studies in people with dementia, in people with
in people with dementia, in people with Alzheimer's disease that were giving a
Alzheimer's disease that were giving a vitamin D supplement or a placebo
vitamin D supplement or a placebo control. And those individuals given the
control. And those individuals given the vitamin D supplement had improved
vitamin D supplement had improved cognition. They had um lower markers of
cognition. They had um lower markers of amaloid plaques. So those were this will
amaloid plaques. So those were this will those were also measured as well. So
those were also measured as well. So vitamin D is doing a lot of things. It's
vitamin D is doing a lot of things. It's it's regulating 5% of your protein
it's regulating 5% of your protein encoding human genome.
encoding human genome. If I want to increase my probability of
If I want to increase my probability of getting dementia, then I've got to stay
getting dementia, then I've got to stay out of the sun. I've got to avoid um
out of the sun. I've got to avoid um vitamin D. I've got to drink alcohol,
vitamin D. I've got to drink alcohol, smoke, be sedentary, and I've got to
smoke, be sedentary, and I've got to sleep really badly.
sleep really badly. Yes. And eat a lot of refined sugar.
Yes. And eat a lot of refined sugar. Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Okay.
Yes. Yes. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Now, you might go, "Well, how
Exactly. Now, you might go, "Well, how much vitamin D?" Right? I'm talking
much vitamin D?" Right? I'm talking about deficiency and insufficiency and
about deficiency and insufficiency and you really want to get a blood test to
you really want to get a blood test to know what your levels are. There have
know what your levels are. There have been I don't know 30 plus studies that
been I don't know 30 plus studies that have looked at vitamin D levels and all
have looked at vitamin D levels and all cause mortality. So that would be again
cause mortality. So that would be again you know how you know dying from a
you know how you know dying from a variety of different diseases
variety of different diseases cardiovascular disease respiratory
cardiovascular disease respiratory disease cancer and people that have
disease cancer and people that have blood levels of vitamin D between 40 60
blood levels of vitamin D between 40 60 maybe 80 nanogs per milliliter have the
maybe 80 nanogs per milliliter have the lowest all-c cause mortality so these
lowest all-c cause mortality so these people are not deficient not
people are not deficient not insufficient insufficiency happens at
insufficient insufficiency happens at about 30 nanogs per milliliter below
about 30 nanogs per milliliter below that deficiency is 20 nanogs per mill
that deficiency is 20 nanogs per mill milliliter and below and so um there
milliliter and below and so um there have been a variety of studies that have
have been a variety of studies that have looked at for example the brain and the
looked at for example the brain and the aging brain and vitamin D levels and
aging brain and vitamin D levels and it's been shown that for every you know
it's been shown that for every you know 10 nanimal per liter decrease in vitamin
10 nanimal per liter decrease in vitamin D blood levels there's an increase in
D blood levels there's an increase in brain damage it's called white matter
brain damage it's called white matter hyperintensities it's basically damage
hyperintensities it's basically damage to the white matter in your brain and
to the white matter in your brain and the white matter in your brain is myelin
the white matter in your brain is myelin that's how your brain's communicating
that's how your brain's communicating and and like how you know it electrical
and and like how you know it electrical impulses are being you know moved so
impulses are being you know moved so that you can think and talk and all
that you can think and talk and all that. Exactly.
that. Exactly. Yeah. I hadn't had one today, so I feel
Yeah. I hadn't had one today, so I feel like you you've persuaded me.
like you you've persuaded me. Most people that are deficient can
Most people that are deficient can increase their blood levels to a normal
increase their blood levels to a normal sufficient level by about 4,000 IUs of
sufficient level by about 4,000 IUs of vitamin D per day. So, not and that's
vitamin D per day. So, not and that's been done that's been shown in multiple
been done that's been shown in multiple studies. Not it's not it's not that hard
studies. Not it's not it's not that hard to take. In fact, vitamin D supplements
to take. In fact, vitamin D supplements are probably the cheapest supplement out
are probably the cheapest supplement out there. It's like 10 cents per pill. When
there. It's like 10 cents per pill. When you talked about these,
you talked about these, I was really surprised to hear that they
I was really surprised to hear that they have cancer preventing chemicals in
have cancer preventing chemicals in them. And then um I was looking at some
them. And then um I was looking at some of the research and it does say exactly
of the research and it does say exactly as you said, things like kale, broccoli,
as you said, things like kale, broccoli, Brussels sprouts linked to a reduction
Brussels sprouts linked to a reduction in breast cancerous prostate, lung, and
in breast cancerous prostate, lung, and colarctyl cancers. According to the
colarctyl cancers. According to the World Cancer Research Fund and PubMed,
World Cancer Research Fund and PubMed, most of us don't eat enough of this
most of us don't eat enough of this stuff cuz it's not the tastiest stuff.
stuff cuz it's not the tastiest stuff. And you talked about sugar as well. It
And you talked about sugar as well. It it makes me think about the diet that
it makes me think about the diet that I'm currently on, which is the ketogenic
I'm currently on, which is the ketogenic diet, and whether that is an optimal
diet, and whether that is an optimal diet in terms of all of the things we've
diet in terms of all of the things we've discussed earlier, dementia, longevity,
discussed earlier, dementia, longevity, aging. What is your views on the
aging. What is your views on the ketogenic diet? I think there's there's
ketogenic diet? I think there's there's the extreme ketogenic diet, like the
the extreme ketogenic diet, like the classical ketogenic diet, and then
classical ketogenic diet, and then there's modified sort of low carb
there's modified sort of low carb ketogenic diets that do allow for I
ketogenic diets that do allow for I mean, there's yes, these are leafy
mean, there's yes, these are leafy greens that are carbohydrate, but
greens that are carbohydrate, but they're high in fiber and they're low
they're high in fiber and they're low glycemic index. And so, you can actually
glycemic index. And so, you can actually eat leafy greens on a ketogenic diet and
eat leafy greens on a ketogenic diet and still be in ketosis. So I the ketogenic
still be in ketosis. So I the ketogenic diet is very I'm very interested in it
diet is very I'm very interested in it because I do think that beta
because I do think that beta hydroxybutyrate which is the ke major
hydroxybutyrate which is the ke major circulating ketone body that's produced
circulating ketone body that's produced when you're in ketosis is highly
when you're in ketosis is highly beneficial much like lactate it can
beneficial much like lactate it can actually do a lot of what lactate can
actually do a lot of what lactate can do. It gets into the brain and it's an e
do. It gets into the brain and it's an e easily utilizable source of energy by
easily utilizable source of energy by neurons. These are ketones, which is
neurons. These are ketones, which is what your body makes when you
what your body makes when you abstain from carbohydrates and sugars.
abstain from carbohydrates and sugars. Yes. It eventually shifts into ketosis
Yes. It eventually shifts into ketosis where you're running on keto.
where you're running on keto. You're in ketosis and you're running on
You're in ketosis and you're running on ketones.
ketones. Yes. It's what you're measuring when
Yes. It's what you're measuring when you're doing your when you're measuring
you're doing your when you're measuring your finger prick that it's beta
your finger prick that it's beta hydroxybutyrate. That's the major
hydroxybutyrate. That's the major circulating one
circulating one that you're measuring. And that's
that you're measuring. And that's actually a signaling molecule. It's
actually a signaling molecule. It's activating brain drive neurotrphic
activating brain drive neurotrphic factor in the brain. And so it's very
factor in the brain. And so it's very interesting because it's it's almost
interesting because it's it's almost like having lactate in your body but
like having lactate in your body but having it constantly. So I'm super
having it constantly. So I'm super interested in a ketogenic diet
interested in a ketogenic diet particularly for people that respond
particularly for people that respond well. I mean some people their
well. I mean some people their triglycerides go really high, their
triglycerides go really high, their cholesterol goes really high and there's
cholesterol goes really high and there's sort of an I would say individual
sort of an I would say individual variation in terms of how you respond.
variation in terms of how you respond. And so it's good to always measure
And so it's good to always measure everything right to make sure that
everything right to make sure that you're responding well to ketogenic diet
you're responding well to ketogenic diet or to maybe cycle it. I've been very
or to maybe cycle it. I've been very interested in cycling it for brain
interested in cycling it for brain benefits as well because of the beta
benefits as well because of the beta hydroxybutyrate where it's it's just so
hydroxybutyrate where it's it's just so beneficial for the brain. You know, it's
beneficial for the brain. You know, it's been shown that you know beta
been shown that you know beta hydroxybutyrate. So what happens is when
hydroxybutyrate. So what happens is when you have this ketone like beta
you have this ketone like beta hydroxybutyrate get into the brain, it's
hydroxybutyrate get into the brain, it's able to be used as energy instead of
able to be used as energy instead of glucose. I feel like we should take a
glucose. I feel like we should take a step back and explain what keto is for
step back and explain what keto is for for the for the listener who maybe has
for the for the listener who maybe has never really heard or understood it
never really heard or understood it before. And I know that there's a large
before. And I know that there's a large proportion of people that don't know
proportion of people that don't know what it what it is because I spend a lot
what it what it is because I spend a lot of time at dinner parties trying to talk
of time at dinner parties trying to talk about it. And it's super surprising to
about it. And it's super surprising to me that the average person actually
me that the average person actually doesn't really know what what keto or
doesn't really know what what keto or ketosis is.
ketosis is. So, I think that's great. Yeah, we can
So, I think that's great. Yeah, we can talk about ketosis. Um, essentially if
talk about ketosis. Um, essentially if we if we kind of take a a thousand mile
we if we kind of take a a thousand mile high view of it without getting so
high view of it without getting so technical,
technical, yeah,
yeah, I would say the best way to think about
I would say the best way to think about being in ketosis is your body is using
being in ketosis is your body is using fatty acids as energy and not much
fatty acids as energy and not much glucose. You'll still use a little bit
glucose. You'll still use a little bit of glucose. You need to use glucose
of glucose. You need to use glucose because your red blood cells, for
because your red blood cells, for example, don't have any mitochondria.
example, don't have any mitochondria. They need glucose, but you're mostly
They need glucose, but you're mostly using fatty acids as energy that are
using fatty acids as energy that are being produced from they're being
being produced from they're being released from fat stored in atapost
released from fat stored in atapost tissue,
tissue, which is like my belly,
which is like my belly, which is like your belly, visceral fat,
which is like your belly, visceral fat, um, subcutaneous fat.
um, subcutaneous fat. So, this sounds great. My body's going
So, this sounds great. My body's going to use burn the fat instead of burn, you
to use burn the fat instead of burn, you know, burning glucose, which I've got
know, burning glucose, which I've got from eating bread or something. So, I'm
from eating bread or something. So, I'm going to get skinny.
going to get skinny. People do lose weight on a ketogenic
People do lose weight on a ketogenic diet.
diet. My dad has lost so much weight, it's
My dad has lost so much weight, it's ridiculous. It's like shocking. on a
ridiculous. It's like shocking. on a ketogenic diet.
ketogenic diet. Yeah, it's crazy. He was quite a big man
Yeah, it's crazy. He was quite a big man if I say so myself. Very big belly. And
if I say so myself. Very big belly. And he sent me this screenshot the other day
he sent me this screenshot the other day after a couple of months on the
after a couple of months on the ketogenic diet.
ketogenic diet. And he's like 13. He's just for the
And he's like 13. He's just for the first time ever been 13 stone since
first time ever been 13 stone since since he was in his teens. He's now 13
since he was in his teens. He's now 13 stone. So he's lost what the equivalent
stone. So he's lost what the equivalent of about four four or five stone in
of about four four or five stone in weight in a couple of months. And he
weight in a couple of months. And he just looks completely different. Now,
just looks completely different. Now, I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily
I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily saying to stay on that diet forever, but
saying to stay on that diet forever, but the the speed in which one can lose
the the speed in which one can lose weight on a ketogenic diet is
weight on a ketogenic diet is remarkable,
remarkable, right? And so, you're you're basically
right? And so, you're you're basically the food that you're eating is
the food that you're eating is predominantly
predominantly fat, right? So, you're you're basically
fat, right? So, you're you're basically not only using the fat that your body
not only using the fat that your body already has stored, but you're also
already has stored, but you're also fueling yourself. You're feeding
fueling yourself. You're feeding yourself more fat, right? So, you're
yourself more fat, right? So, you're basically using the fat as energy and
basically using the fat as energy and through a whole bunch of biochemical
through a whole bunch of biochemical reactions, you produce ketone bodies as
reactions, you produce ketone bodies as a byproduct of of that. It doesn't
a byproduct of of that. It doesn't necessarily have to be just ketogenic
necessarily have to be just ketogenic diet. Like, you can when you're fasting,
diet. Like, you can when you're fasting, you go into ketosis, right? Because if
you go into ketosis, right? Because if you think about it, you're you're not
you think about it, you're you're not giving yourself food. Instead, you're
giving yourself food. Instead, you're relying on what your body already has as
relying on what your body already has as a source of energy. And you only have so
a source of energy. And you only have so much glucose stored as glycogen right in
much glucose stored as glycogen right in your liver. And that I would say after
your liver. And that I would say after there's individual variation, but after
there's individual variation, but after about 12 hours of not giving your body
about 12 hours of not giving your body food, you sort of deplete all your
food, you sort of deplete all your glycogen stores and then so you start to
glycogen stores and then so you start to shift to lipolysis, which means the
shift to lipolysis, which means the breakdown of fat. So fasting is another
breakdown of fat. So fasting is another way to go to get into ketosis. Another
way to go to get into ketosis. Another way would be intense exercise. So, like,
way would be intense exercise. So, like, you know, these endurance athletes that
you know, these endurance athletes that are doing long duration types of
are doing long duration types of exercise also can go into ketosis,
exercise also can go into ketosis, right? Because they're depleting their
right? Because they're depleting their glycogen stores much quicker and they're
glycogen stores much quicker and they're also using all this energy that they've
also using all this energy that they've they've fueled themselves with because
they've fueled themselves with because it's it's so intense, right? Long
it's it's so intense, right? Long duration type of exercise. And so, and
duration type of exercise. And so, and you can combine these things as well,
you can combine these things as well, right? You can do endurance exercise
right? You can do endurance exercise with the ketogenic diet and you really
with the ketogenic diet and you really kind of can get into ketosis quicker. Is
kind of can get into ketosis quicker. Is it like a switch?
it like a switch? So there is something called metabolic
So there is something called metabolic flexibility which essentially means that
flexibility which essentially means that your body is able to
your body is able to switch between burning glucose and using
switch between burning glucose and using glucose as energy but also using fatty
glucose as energy but also using fatty acids as making you know as energy and
acids as making you know as energy and then producing ketones as well. And the
then producing ketones as well. And the more I would say the more um if you've
more I would say the more um if you've done ketosis or if you exercise a lot
done ketosis or if you exercise a lot like frequently or you do any form of
like frequently or you do any form of fasting or what's called timerestricted
fasting or what's called timerestricted eating. So let's say you eat all your
eating. So let's say you eat all your food within an eight hour window and
food within an eight hour window and then for 16 hours you're not eating
then for 16 hours you're not eating food. Your body is used to switching to
food. Your body is used to switching to fatty acid metabolism to to using fatty
fatty acid metabolism to to using fatty acids as energy. So you're really
acids as energy. So you're really metabolically flexible. And um not
metabolically flexible. And um not everyone's able to do that because most
everyone's able to do that because most people actually they think they eat
people actually they think they eat within a 12-h hour period, but they
within a 12-h hour period, but they there's been studies that have been done
there's been studies that have been done that have shown that actually they eat
that have shown that actually they eat more like within a 15 to 16 hour period,
more like within a 15 to 16 hour period, not not even a 12-h hour period.
not not even a 12-h hour period. Certainly not a 10 or eight hour period.
Certainly not a 10 or eight hour period. So there's, as I mentioned, it takes
So there's, as I mentioned, it takes about 12 hours on average to deplete all
about 12 hours on average to deplete all your glycogen levels. Now, you can
your glycogen levels. Now, you can accelerate that, if you're doing a lot
accelerate that, if you're doing a lot of physical activity, but once you
of physical activity, but once you deplete that liver glycogen, that is
deplete that liver glycogen, that is when you shift into burning fatty acids
when you shift into burning fatty acids and then eventually ketosis, right?
and then eventually ketosis, right? In terms of longevity, have they ever
In terms of longevity, have they ever done any studies where they've put
done any studies where they've put someone on the ketogenic diet or like a
someone on the ketogenic diet or like a mouse or a rat on a ketogenic diet
mouse or a rat on a ketogenic diet versus the the average diet and then
versus the the average diet and then monitored how long they live?
monitored how long they live? There have been studies by uh Dr. Eric
There have been studies by uh Dr. Eric Verden out of the uh Buck Institute for
Verden out of the uh Buck Institute for Aging in Novado, California. And I mean
Aging in Novado, California. And I mean this was several years ago. He's done
this was several years ago. He's done these studies probably almost 10 years
these studies probably almost 10 years ago, maybe about 2018 or 2017 these
ago, maybe about 2018 or 2017 these studies were published. But um he he did
studies were published. But um he he did do some of these studies with a
do some of these studies with a ketogenic diet in rodents and it did
ketogenic diet in rodents and it did seem to extend life expectancy but more
seem to extend life expectancy but more importantly the health span. So
importantly the health span. So particularly in the brain. So it's like
particularly in the brain. So it's like their brain had aged much much better.
their brain had aged much much better. they had less of the all of the
they had less of the all of the pathological features of Alzheimer's
pathological features of Alzheimer's disease. And again, I do think like I
disease. And again, I do think like I mentioned, I I'm I'm super interested in
mentioned, I I'm I'm super interested in beta hydroxybutyrate
beta hydroxybutyrate in particular. I mean, there's it's
in particular. I mean, there's it's multiffactorial because on the one hand,
multiffactorial because on the one hand, you're not eating as much glucose,
you're not eating as much glucose, right? And that in in and of itself is
right? And that in in and of itself is important because glucose can be so
important because glucose can be so damaging particularly if you're not
damaging particularly if you're not physically active because it's not if
physically active because it's not if you if you're physically active and
you if you're physically active and you're eating some amount of glucose
you're eating some amount of glucose that's going into your muscle.
that's going into your muscle. It's not damaging the vascular system.
It's not damaging the vascular system. The vas the cardio the vascular system
The vas the cardio the vascular system is very much related to the brain,
is very much related to the brain, right? So when you start to stiffen your
right? So when you start to stiffen your blood vessels and stiffen everything, I
blood vessels and stiffen everything, I mean that's that's affecting blood flow
mean that's that's affecting blood flow to the brain. It's you know it's causing
to the brain. It's you know it's causing hypertension. That all affects brain
hypertension. That all affects brain aging as well. So, I think just, you
aging as well. So, I think just, you know, and then the the the damage that
know, and then the the the damage that the glucose does in and of itself, like
the glucose does in and of itself, like I mean there's studies, it's really
I mean there's studies, it's really interesting. There's studies showing
interesting. There's studies showing that people even on the high end of
that people even on the high end of normal in terms of their blood glucose
normal in terms of their blood glucose levels. So, they're normal, but they're
levels. So, they're normal, but they're kind of on the high end of normal. They
kind of on the high end of normal. They had more brain atrophy than people on
had more brain atrophy than people on the low end of normal.
the low end of normal. By brain atrophy, you mean their brain
By brain atrophy, you mean their brain was
was shrinking.
shrinking. Shrinking.
Shrinking. Shrinking. And it was the hippocampus,
Shrinking. And it was the hippocampus, by the way. again that
by the way. again that that part of the brain that's involved
that part of the brain that's involved in learning and memory. So the glucose
in learning and memory. So the glucose itself has this effect on you causing
itself has this effect on you causing damage and accelerating the aging
damage and accelerating the aging process. But then there's this other
process. But then there's this other very interesting effect of these
very interesting effect of these chemicals that are made as a byproduct
chemicals that are made as a byproduct of being in ketosis and that is the beta
of being in ketosis and that is the beta hydroxybutyrate that ketone body gets
hydroxybutyrate that ketone body gets into the brain. It's transported across
into the brain. It's transported across the brain through an MCT transporter.
the brain through an MCT transporter. And when it gets into the brain, it can
And when it gets into the brain, it can be used as energy. And you your neurons
be used as energy. And you your neurons don't need to use glucose. And it can do
don't need to use glucose. And it can do that. So your your neurons can use
that. So your your neurons can use glucose as energy, but it takes energy
glucose as energy, but it takes energy to use that glucose to make energy. When
to use that glucose to make energy. When you use the ketone, the beta
you use the ketone, the beta hydroxybutyrate, it takes less energy to
hydroxybutyrate, it takes less energy to you to make that energy. So it's
you to make that energy. So it's energetically favorable to actually use
energetically favorable to actually use that ketone, that beta hydroxybutyrate.
that ketone, that beta hydroxybutyrate. On top of that, this is what's so
On top of that, this is what's so interesting, it frees up glucose. So,
interesting, it frees up glucose. So, the neurons aren't using the glucose.
the neurons aren't using the glucose. Where does the glucose go? Right?
Where does the glucose go? Right? Because it's there. It's it it sort of
Because it's there. It's it it sort of shunts it into this other pathway that's
shunts it into this other pathway that's called the pentos phosphate pathway. I
called the pentos phosphate pathway. I don't want to, you know, burden people
don't want to, you know, burden people with all the technical details, but
with all the technical details, but let's get to the important part of that
let's get to the important part of that is that it shunts glucose into this
is that it shunts glucose into this pathway that makes essentially its
pathway that makes essentially its precursors that make what's called
precursors that make what's called glutathione, the major antioxidant in
glutathione, the major antioxidant in the brain. And so you're making more
the brain. And so you're making more glutathione day after day after day.
glutathione day after day after day. That is huge because oxidation in the
That is huge because oxidation in the brain, inflammation, this is a huge
brain, inflammation, this is a huge cause of brain aging and Alzheimer's
cause of brain aging and Alzheimer's disease, dementia. We now know
disease, dementia. We now know neuroinflammation is one of the major
neuroinflammation is one of the major causes of it. And so if you have more
causes of it. And so if you have more glutathione in your brain, you are going
glutathione in your brain, you are going to basically sequester that damage
to basically sequester that damage that's causing, you know, that's that's
that's causing, you know, that's that's aging the brain essentially. And so the
aging the brain essentially. And so the glucose now is not being used for
glucose now is not being used for energy. It's being used to make an
energy. It's being used to make an antioxidant in the brain. Okay, that's
antioxidant in the brain. Okay, that's also
also really cool. And there's more. There's
really cool. And there's more. There's more. Okay, so then the beta
more. Okay, so then the beta hydroxybutyrate itself is a signaling
hydroxybutyrate itself is a signaling molecule like lactate.
molecule like lactate. The ketone,
The ketone, the ketone itself is a signaling
the ketone itself is a signaling molecule where it's basically, you know,
molecule where it's basically, you know, it's a little bit of a stressed state,
it's a little bit of a stressed state, right? So when you're in ketosis, it's
right? So when you're in ketosis, it's you're stressing the body. It's either
you're stressing the body. It's either exercise or you're fasting or you're on
exercise or you're fasting or you're on this ketogenic diet. And so your body
this ketogenic diet. And so your body again is responding to that stress by
again is responding to that stress by making like a bunch of awesome resilient
making like a bunch of awesome resilient stress response things that are
stress response things that are basically gonna improve the way you age.
basically gonna improve the way you age. And so the ketone beta hydroxybutyrate
And so the ketone beta hydroxybutyrate then activates brain drive neurotrphic
then activates brain drive neurotrphic factor. This miracle growth for your
factor. This miracle growth for your brain, right? It's involved in growing
brain, right? It's involved in growing new neurons. It's involved in increasing
new neurons. It's involved in increasing the connection between neurons. It's
the connection between neurons. It's involved in neuroplasticity. All those
involved in neuroplasticity. All those things. And so you get this multi-level
things. And so you get this multi-level benefit not getting not having the glue
benefit not getting not having the glue glucose causing the damage. You have um
glucose causing the damage. You have um basically the glucose now being used.
basically the glucose now being used. Not only is it not going causing damage,
Not only is it not going causing damage, it's being used to make an antioxidant.
it's being used to make an antioxidant. And then you have the whole ketone, you
And then you have the whole ketone, you know, aspect where you're you're
know, aspect where you're you're essentially um making and activating all
essentially um making and activating all these beneficial pathways in the brain
these beneficial pathways in the brain that reduces aging. And what's going on
that reduces aging. And what's going on when we take
when we take exogenous ketones, external ketones via
exogenous ketones, external ketones via a drink or something like that?
a drink or something like that? Yeah. So, what's happening is you're
Yeah. So, what's happening is you're essentially giving your body the beta
essentially giving your body the beta hydroxybutyrate ketone that it would
hydroxybutyrate ketone that it would make normally if you were undergoing
make normally if you were undergoing ketosis and using fatty acids only as
ketosis and using fatty acids only as energy. You're giving your body a big
energy. You're giving your body a big boost of it. So, you're kind of
boost of it. So, you're kind of bypassing the the way that your body
bypassing the the way that your body would make it itself and giving it to
would make it itself and giving it to your body. And it's great for people
your body. And it's great for people that
that have a hard time with doing a ketogenic
have a hard time with doing a ketogenic diet, for example. Maybe they just can't
diet, for example. Maybe they just can't stick with it or maybe they don't
stick with it or maybe they don't respond very well to it in terms of
respond very well to it in terms of other biomarkers. They're going to get a
other biomarkers. They're going to get a lot of the benefit, but it's only going
lot of the benefit, but it's only going to last, you know, one to three hours,
to last, you know, one to three hours, right?
right? Yeah. Until it flushes out, right?
Yeah. Until it flushes out, right? Until until you use it up. Yeah. And so
Until until you use it up. Yeah. And so it's in addition to just people that
it's in addition to just people that want to get that focus and attention,
want to get that focus and attention, which is what both you and I have
which is what both you and I have experienced when we've taken these, you
experienced when we've taken these, you know, supplements, this exogenous
know, supplements, this exogenous ketone.
ketone. There's also some potential therapeutic
There's also some potential therapeutic effects. So people that have mild
effects. So people that have mild cognitive decline, maybe like the first
cognitive decline, maybe like the first stages of dementia or Alzheimer's
stages of dementia or Alzheimer's disease can kind of perk up and um
disease can kind of perk up and um perform better when they have when
perform better when they have when they're given an exogenous ketone, this
they're given an exogenous ketone, this supplemental ketone beta
supplemental ketone beta hydroxybutyrate. There's not a lot of
hydroxybutyrate. There's not a lot of studies on it, but there's like a few
studies on it, but there's like a few case studies where
case studies where case studies being like a single person
case studies being like a single person is given it and they're followed and
is given it and they're followed and looked at, you know,
looked at, you know, and it's very interesting.
and it's very interesting. I actually know that they're doing
I actually know that they're doing studies on exactly that at the moment.
studies on exactly that at the moment. Um because I've spoken to a few of these
Um because I've spoken to a few of these companies and a few scientists that are
companies and a few scientists that are in this field over the last couple of
in this field over the last couple of over the last couple of weeks in fact
over the last couple of weeks in fact and they were saying that we're
and they were saying that we're currently in the process of doing
currently in the process of doing studies to see that if exogenous ketones
studies to see that if exogenous ketones which are these ketone drinks or ketone
which are these ketone drinks or ketone shots can repair your cognitive faculty
shots can repair your cognitive faculty faculties and is that via the process
faculties and is that via the process that you describe where glucose is
that you describe where glucose is pushed into this other pathway?
pushed into this other pathway? Yes. So, um, I think I'm aware of the
Yes. So, um, I think I'm aware of the same study because I've I've looked it
same study because I've I've looked it up in the clinical trial and what's
up in the clinical trial and what's what's being looked at after giving this
what's being looked at after giving this exogenous beta hydroxybutyrate, this
exogenous beta hydroxybutyrate, this supplemental ketone in people with
supplemental ketone in people with Alzheimer's disease, you can repair
Alzheimer's disease, you can repair damage because again you are activating
damage because again you are activating brain drive neurotrphic factor which can
brain drive neurotrphic factor which can it can repair damage. It can grow new
it can repair damage. It can grow new neurons. It can help with brain atrophy.
neurons. It can help with brain atrophy. it can strengthen connection between
it can strengthen connection between neurons and then the glucose now is
neurons and then the glucose now is being shunted into that repair pathway
being shunted into that repair pathway that glutathione is being activated and
that glutathione is being activated and and that's able to you know repair
and that's able to you know repair damage as well. So I I'm excited to see
damage as well. So I I'm excited to see the public like that that study
the public like that that study published.
published. I would hypothesize that there's going
I would hypothesize that there's going to be beneficial effects and it's going
to be beneficial effects and it's going to be pretty exciting particularly
to be pretty exciting particularly because it is hard for older adults some
because it is hard for older adults some older adults to do a ketogenic diet.
older adults to do a ketogenic diet. It's not the easiest thing to follow. I
It's not the easiest thing to follow. I mean, you do have to be pretty
mean, you do have to be pretty disciplined.
disciplined. So, this alternative to being able to
So, this alternative to being able to supplement with something that can sort
supplement with something that can sort of at least for the course of a couple
of at least for the course of a couple of hours do what being on a ketogenic
of hours do what being on a ketogenic diet can do is very exciting. Right.
diet can do is very exciting. Right. When you took the keto shot that you had
When you took the keto shot that you had at home, what did you experience? You
at home, what did you experience? You said it was potent. It was powerful.
said it was potent. It was powerful. Yeah. It was like a neutropic effect
Yeah. It was like a neutropic effect where when I mean neutropic effect, it's
where when I mean neutropic effect, it's it's the kind of effect where you you
it's the kind of effect where you you feel
feel focused, your attention, your alertness
focused, your attention, your alertness is enhanced, you're sort of filtering
is enhanced, you're sort of filtering out all the background noise in your
out all the background noise in your brain that sort of those little thoughts
brain that sort of those little thoughts that pop in and distract you. And so,
that pop in and distract you. And so, uh, you're more productive. And, um,
uh, you're more productive. And, um, that was very noticeable. In fact, there
that was very noticeable. In fact, there was a time when I was like before any
was a time when I was like before any podcast, I would take a shot of it. I
podcast, I would take a shot of it. I would do it and um it's kind kind of
would do it and um it's kind kind of expensive, but it is I there's a lot of
expensive, but it is I there's a lot of people that are that are using it now.
people that are that are using it now. And I think it's I think it's a better
And I think it's I think it's a better alternative to some other neutropics
alternative to some other neutropics that are common right now, like
that are common right now, like nicotine, for example, which can really
nicotine, for example, which can really have a negative trade-off, but can do
have a negative trade-off, but can do something similar. Whereas this is like
something similar. Whereas this is like not only gives you that sort of
not only gives you that sort of cognitive enhancement, that brain pump,
cognitive enhancement, that brain pump, it also has like benefits for brain
it also has like benefits for brain aging. Right.
aging. Right. What are your superfoods? There must be
What are your superfoods? There must be foods of yours. Um olive oil has become
foods of yours. Um olive oil has become one of my superfoods. Just a food that I
one of my superfoods. Just a food that I love to just put on as many things as I
love to just put on as many things as I can because everybody tells me about
can because everybody tells me about these polyphenols which are apparently
these polyphenols which are apparently amazing for you. But what are some of
amazing for you. But what are some of the your sort of favorite superfoods
the your sort of favorite superfoods that you try and consume that most
that you try and consume that most people might not think of? So we talked
people might not think of? So we talked about leafy greens. I guess that's one
about leafy greens. I guess that's one of them.
of them. It is leafy greens. Um they have they're
It is leafy greens. Um they have they're high in magnesium and you know magnesium
high in magnesium and you know magnesium is at the center of a chlorophyll
is at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their
molecule. Chlorophyll give plants their green color. Magnesium is very important
green color. Magnesium is very important for preventing damage to DNA DNA and
for preventing damage to DNA DNA and cancer. And you know half half the US
cancer. And you know half half the US population doesn't get enough of it.
population doesn't get enough of it. They're high in a lot of different
They're high in a lot of different compounds. I mean they're folate,
compounds. I mean they're folate, vitamin K one. So you're getting a lot
vitamin K one. So you're getting a lot of these micronutrients that are
of these micronutrients that are important. So I do like re dark leafy
important. So I do like re dark leafy greens. I particularly like kale and
greens. I particularly like kale and broccoli because of something called
broccoli because of something called sulfurophane
sulfurophane which is sulurophane itself is not in
which is sulurophane itself is not in them but a precursor when you break the
them but a precursor when you break the plant or you chew it um it makes
plant or you chew it um it makes sulfurophane. So there's an enzyme that
sulfurophane. So there's an enzyme that gets activated that converts a precursor
gets activated that converts a precursor in these plants called glucaraphin into
in these plants called glucaraphin into sulurophane. Sulfurophane is also
sulurophane. Sulfurophane is also increases glutathione in the brain. It
increases glutathione in the brain. It helps detoxify pollutants like benzene,
helps detoxify pollutants like benzene, um, bisphenol A, BPA as well. So, I do
um, bisphenol A, BPA as well. So, I do like dark leafy greens of the
like dark leafy greens of the cruciferous family of vegetables. Again,
cruciferous family of vegetables. Again, that would be kale, broccoli. Um, those
that would be kale, broccoli. Um, those are those are the cruciferous family.
are those are the cruciferous family. I also like blueberries. Blueberries are
I also like blueberries. Blueberries are a source of polyphenols. You mentioned
a source of polyphenols. You mentioned olive oil as a polyphenol. If you're on
olive oil as a polyphenol. If you're on a ketogenic diet, olive oil is like the
a ketogenic diet, olive oil is like the great, right? Because you need fat. And
great, right? Because you need fat. And olive oil is so great because it also
olive oil is so great because it also has those polyphenols that are
has those polyphenols that are beneficial. has been shown even in
beneficial. has been shown even in studies to improve cognition and memory
studies to improve cognition and memory and uh lower even marker markers of um
and uh lower even marker markers of um bad cardiovascular disease like Apo B
bad cardiovascular disease like Apo B for example lower that. So blueberries I
for example lower that. So blueberries I like because blueberries have also been
like because blueberries have also been shown even a cup of blueberries a day
shown even a cup of blueberries a day has been shown to improve cognition. So
has been shown to improve cognition. So I like the polyphenols. It increases
I like the polyphenols. It increases blood flow to the brain. I also like
blood flow to the brain. I also like salmon and I think that would be
salmon and I think that would be something that most people would think
something that most people would think is healthy. I like it because it's high
is healthy. I like it because it's high in the omega-3 fatty acids which I'm
in the omega-3 fatty acids which I'm very very it's I think it's very very
very very it's I think it's very very important to get enough omega-3 fatty
important to get enough omega-3 fatty acids. I also supplement with them
acids. I also supplement with them because there's a lot of research out
because there's a lot of research out there and if you want to get into that
there and if you want to get into that we can but um the superfood would be the
we can but um the superfood would be the the salmon because it is a fatty source
the salmon because it is a fatty source of fish that is high in omega-3 fatty
of fish that is high in omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA which are found in
acids EPA and DHA which are found in marine sources not plant sources of
marine sources not plant sources of omega-3.
omega-3. I found it really interesting when I was
I found it really interesting when I was looking at omega-3 that it has an impact
looking at omega-3 that it has an impact on mental health and depression and
on mental health and depression and things like that.
things like that. Yeah, it does. It's it's it resolves
Yeah, it does. It's it's it resolves inflammation. It's sort of an
inflammation. It's sort of an anti-inflammatory
anti-inflammatory and inflammation plays a role in
and inflammation plays a role in depression. A big role. In fact, we we
depression. A big role. In fact, we we know that um people that are injected
know that um people that are injected with inflammatory molecules like
with inflammatory molecules like something that's made in our gut from
something that's made in our gut from the bacteria in our gut called
the bacteria in our gut called lipopolysaccharide.
lipopolysaccharide. If you inject them with that it or a
If you inject them with that it or a placebo control, which is saline, it
placebo control, which is saline, it causes depression. But if you give them
causes depression. But if you give them an omega-3 fatty acid supplement, EPA,
an omega-3 fatty acid supplement, EPA, it blunts the depressive symptoms. So,
it blunts the depressive symptoms. So, in other words, if you're causing the
in other words, if you're causing the inflammation by injecting something that
inflammation by injecting something that causes inflammation in people, it causes
causes inflammation in people, it causes depression. But if you give those same
depression. But if you give those same people something that blunts that
people something that blunts that inflammation, omega-3 fatty acids, it
inflammation, omega-3 fatty acids, it doesn't cause the depression, which is
doesn't cause the depression, which is kind of amazing. And there's a ton of
kind of amazing. And there's a ton of other evidence out there. But, um,
other evidence out there. But, um, omega-3 fatty acids are
omega-3 fatty acids are they're so important. And what's
they're so important. And what's interesting was there's a study out of
interesting was there's a study out of Harvard that identified the marine
Harvard that identified the marine source. So, I talked about salmon, EPA,
source. So, I talked about salmon, EPA, DHA, and then there's the plant source,
DHA, and then there's the plant source, ALA. And I say marine source because
ALA. And I say marine source because it's really those are the important ones
it's really those are the important ones that you really want
that you really want from the ocean,
from the ocean, from fish, seafood. So, this Harvard
from fish, seafood. So, this Harvard study identified not eating enough
study identified not eating enough seafood as one of the top six
seafood as one of the top six preventable causes of death up there
preventable causes of death up there with not having hypertension, not
with not having hypertension, not smoking. So essentially not getting
smoking. So essentially not getting enough omega-3 from seafood was so
enough omega-3 from seafood was so important for preventing early death
important for preventing early death that it was comparable to people having
that it was comparable to people having high blood pressure, having
high blood pressure, having cardiovascular disease, for example. And
cardiovascular disease, for example. And again, it's one of those things where
again, it's one of those things where people just don't think about what
people just don't think about what they're not eating, what they're not
they're not eating, what they're not getting. And um you there's so much
getting. And um you there's so much research that have been done even since
research that have been done even since that that study that was published in
that that study that was published in like 2009 looking at omega-3 fatty acid
like 2009 looking at omega-3 fatty acid levels in our blood cells, red blood
levels in our blood cells, red blood cells. This is called the omega-3 index.
cells. This is called the omega-3 index. O it's really an important marker of our
O it's really an important marker of our long-term omega-3 because our our red
long-term omega-3 because our our red blood cells stay around in our system
blood cells stay around in our system for like 120 days. So it's a long-term
for like 120 days. So it's a long-term marker of your omega-3 intake. And
marker of your omega-3 intake. And there's been a variety of studies um
there's been a variety of studies um done from Dr. Bill Harris out of the
done from Dr. Bill Harris out of the fatty acid research institute. So I'm an
fatty acid research institute. So I'm an associate a scientist there showing that
associate a scientist there showing that people with what's called a high omega-3
people with what's called a high omega-3 index
index which is a lot of omega-3
which is a lot of omega-3 a lot of omega-3 their omega-3 index
a lot of omega-3 their omega-3 index would be 8% or higher that's considered
would be 8% or higher that's considered high compared to a low omega-3 index.
high compared to a low omega-3 index. That would be 4% or lower. The average
That would be 4% or lower. The average omega-3 index in the United States is
omega-3 index in the United States is about 5%. So, it's on the low low range.
about 5%. So, it's on the low low range. People that had the high omega-3 index,
People that had the high omega-3 index, in other words, they were either eating
in other words, they were either eating a lot of fish like salmon and or
a lot of fish like salmon and or supplementing with fish oil or
supplementing with fish oil or microalgae oil, which is another a
microalgae oil, which is another a marine source of these omega-3 fatty
marine source of these omega-3 fatty acids. They had a five-year increased
acids. They had a five-year increased life expectancy compared to people with
life expectancy compared to people with a low omega-3 index. Pretty big
a low omega-3 index. Pretty big difference there. All all you have to do
difference there. All all you have to do is essentially either eat enough seafood
is essentially either eat enough seafood and or supplement with a fish oil
and or supplement with a fish oil supplement. But what was so fascinating
supplement. But what was so fascinating about this study was that Bill and his
about this study was that Bill and his colleagues not only looked at the
colleagues not only looked at the omega-3 index, they looked at people
omega-3 index, they looked at people that also smoked and they said, "Okay,
that also smoked and they said, "Okay, we know smoking is terrible for your
we know smoking is terrible for your heart. We know it's causes early
heart. We know it's causes early mortality, cancer, and all that, right?
mortality, cancer, and all that, right? What about people that smoke and their
What about people that smoke and their omega-3 index? So, there was four groups
omega-3 index? So, there was four groups that were looked at. Smokers that have
that were looked at. Smokers that have either a high omega-3 index, so these
either a high omega-3 index, so these smokers were either supplementing or
smokers were either supplementing or they were eating a lot of seafood. And
they were eating a lot of seafood. And then there were smokers with a low
then there were smokers with a low omega-3 index. And they compared them to
omega-3 index. And they compared them to non-smokers with a high omega-3 index
non-smokers with a high omega-3 index versus a low omega-3 index. And what was
versus a low omega-3 index. And what was so fascinating about this study was that
so fascinating about this study was that smoking was like as bad for you in terms
smoking was like as bad for you in terms of mortality as having a low omega-3
of mortality as having a low omega-3 index. So the smokers with a high
index. So the smokers with a high omega-3 index had the same mortality
omega-3 index had the same mortality risk as non-smokers with a low omega-3
risk as non-smokers with a low omega-3 index, which is fascinating because
index, which is fascinating because everybody knows to avoid smoking.
everybody knows to avoid smoking. Smoking, if you want to take years off
Smoking, if you want to take years off your life, if you want to decrease the
your life, if you want to decrease the quality of your life, start smoking
quality of your life, start smoking right now.
right now. But the same mortality risk was found in
But the same mortality risk was found in non-smokers who did not have a high
non-smokers who did not have a high omega-3 index. Right now, I say this,
omega-3 index. Right now, I say this, I'll talk about this and smokers will
I'll talk about this and smokers will say, "Oh, great. Now all I have to do is
say, "Oh, great. Now all I have to do is take fish oil and I'll have the same
take fish oil and I'll have the same life expectancy as a non-smoker with,
life expectancy as a non-smoker with, you know, a low omega-3 index." But of
you know, a low omega-3 index." But of course, the the take-home here is that
course, the the take-home here is that for those of us that are not smoking,
for those of us that are not smoking, but we're not getting enough omega-3
but we're not getting enough omega-3 from our diet, that's like smoking in
from our diet, that's like smoking in terms of mortality risk. So, super
terms of mortality risk. So, super important, and I like talking about this
important, and I like talking about this because it really makes it again really
because it really makes it again really clear that not getting these essential
clear that not getting these essential nutrients can be very detrimental to our
nutrients can be very detrimental to our health. And it's easy to fix. You can
health. And it's easy to fix. You can take a fish oil supplement. You can
take a fish oil supplement. You can increase the amount of salmon that
increase the amount of salmon that you're eating. And there have been
you're eating. And there have been studies from Bill's group that have
studies from Bill's group that have shown people that supplement with
shown people that supplement with between 1 to two grams of fish oil per
between 1 to two grams of fish oil per day can go from a low omega-3 index to a
day can go from a low omega-3 index to a high omega-3 index, which is not hard to
high omega-3 index, which is not hard to do.
do. So, I guess two questions, which is, is
So, I guess two questions, which is, is having these little omega capsules the
having these little omega capsules the same as eating the salmon in terms of
same as eating the salmon in terms of the omega3 that I'm getting? And how
the omega3 that I'm getting? And how long do I have to take these little
long do I have to take these little omega capsules for to move from having a
omega capsules for to move from having a low index to a high omega-3 index?
low index to a high omega-3 index? Well, these are great questions,
Well, these are great questions, Stephen. So, essentially, this little
Stephen. So, essentially, this little capsule here is not the same as eating
capsule here is not the same as eating salmon. And there's a few reasons why.
salmon. And there's a few reasons why. So, for one, when you're eating a fish
So, for one, when you're eating a fish that's high in omega-3, like salmon,
that's high in omega-3, like salmon, you have this omega-3 in what's called
you have this omega-3 in what's called triglyceride form. So the omega-3 is is
triglyceride form. So the omega-3 is is is bound to a glycerol backbone and
is bound to a glycerol backbone and that's really important for the way you
that's really important for the way you absorb it. Some fish oil supplements
absorb it. Some fish oil supplements don't have that. They're they're aster
don't have that. They're they're aster they're basically they're molecular
they're basically they're molecular distilled and then they're put they have
distilled and then they're put they have an ethanol back backbone. So it's not
an ethanol back backbone. So it's not quite as bioavailable. But I think more
quite as bioavailable. But I think more importantly is that these fish oil
importantly is that these fish oil supplements are
supplements are purified. So you're not getting mercury
purified. So you're not getting mercury or microplastics or things that are also
or microplastics or things that are also found in the whole fish.
found in the whole fish. So these are better.
So these are better. Unfortunately, I think so. I do. Um, as
Unfortunately, I think so. I do. Um, as much as I think it's it's better, you
much as I think it's it's better, you know, for the longest time I always I
know, for the longest time I always I was always a whole foods first approach.
was always a whole foods first approach. Um, but we do have this environmental
Um, but we do have this environmental pollution problem and fish have been
pollution problem and fish have been contaminated with heavy metals. They've
contaminated with heavy metals. They've been contaminated with microplastics.
been contaminated with microplastics. I would say that salmon is one of the
I would say that salmon is one of the lowest fish that has the lowest amount
lowest fish that has the lowest amount of mercury compared to other fish. So it
of mercury compared to other fish. So it on a on a per gram basis, you're getting
on a on a per gram basis, you're getting less mercury per gram with salmon than
less mercury per gram with salmon than you would be with, you know, something
you would be with, you know, something like swordfish, for example. But but you
like swordfish, for example. But but you also have microplastics unfortunately
also have microplastics unfortunately that are now in fish. And it is
that are now in fish. And it is something that enters our body when we
something that enters our body when we eat the fish. And so I do think the fish
eat the fish. And so I do think the fish oil supplements are a good alternative
oil supplements are a good alternative because you're getting those omega-3
because you're getting those omega-3 fatty acids and you're not you're you're
fatty acids and you're not you're you're not getting some of the other bad things
not getting some of the other bad things that are in the fish.
that are in the fish. That's fascinating. I didn't really I
That's fascinating. I didn't really I didn't really think of omega-3 as being
didn't really think of omega-3 as being that important, especially as it relates
that important, especially as it relates to longevity. I always thought about it
to longevity. I always thought about it as being something that would help my
as being something that would help my brain work better today. You know,
brain work better today. You know, cognitive performance now.
cognitive performance now. Well, it does that and it also helps
Well, it does that and it also helps prevent the cognitive decline later. And
prevent the cognitive decline later. And also cardiovascular disease, that's a
also cardiovascular disease, that's a big one. So there have been some really
big one. So there have been some really large randomized control trials that
large randomized control trials that have actually given people with
have actually given people with cardiovascular disease that are on, you
cardiovascular disease that are on, you know, some sort of standard of care
know, some sort of standard of care treatment like a statin and they've
treatment like a statin and they've given them four grams a day of a
given them four grams a day of a purified form of omega-3 called EPA
purified form of omega-3 called EPA versus a placebo. And the people given
versus a placebo. And the people given the omega-3
the omega-3 had 25% less cardiovascular related
had 25% less cardiovascular related death or events like heart attacks and
death or events like heart attacks and strokes. So, it's not only like
strokes. So, it's not only like preventing, you know, we talked about
preventing, you know, we talked about all cause mortality and this association
all cause mortality and this association where you live longer. It's also helping
where you live longer. It's also helping people that already have cardiovascular
people that already have cardiovascular disease and reducing their risk of dying
disease and reducing their risk of dying from it.
from it. Right guys, going to go get Steve. The
Right guys, going to go get Steve. The guest is here. Ready?
guest is here. Ready? Come in.
Come in. Oh my god. Steve,
Oh my god. Steve, what are you doing?
what are you doing? This is uh the Bontage face mask. It's
This is uh the Bontage face mask. It's good for blemishes, wrinkles, uh clears
good for blemishes, wrinkles, uh clears up the skin. It's red light. Have you
up the skin. It's red light. Have you not used it before?
not used it before? No. I tried this before. It's um it's
No. I tried this before. It's um it's really really good. It's shines red
really really good. It's shines red light on your face which helps increase
light on your face which helps increase and boost collagen production. Actually
and boost collagen production. Actually found it out cuz the misses seen her
found it out cuz the misses seen her wearing it. She terrified me a couple of
wearing it. She terrified me a couple of nights in a row. Um I thought it was to
nights in a row. Um I thought it was to scare people with but actually it's
scare people with but actually it's really really good for your skin. So
really really good for your skin. So they are a sponsor of the podcast and uh
they are a sponsor of the podcast and uh I've been using it every day for about a
I've been using it every day for about a year and a half now.
year and a half now. Wow.
Wow. Well, Steve is great.
Well, Steve is great. Yes. And Bon Charge ships worldwide with
Yes. And Bon Charge ships worldwide with easy returns and a year-long warranty on
easy returns and a year-long warranty on all of their products. So, visit
all of their products. So, visit bondcharge.com/diary
bondcharge.com/diary for 25% off on any product sitewide. But
for 25% off on any product sitewide. But you have to order through that link.
you have to order through that link. That's boncharge.com/diary
That's boncharge.com/diary with code diary.
with code diary. When I asked you before this
When I asked you before this conversation started rolling, what
conversation started rolling, what you're really excited about at the
you're really excited about at the moment, your response to me was there
moment, your response to me was there was a few things, but one of them which
was a few things, but one of them which lit up your face was creatine.
lit up your face was creatine. Yes. And it's funny because
Yes. And it's funny because it lit up your face again.
it lit up your face again. Yeah. It's it's funny because creatine
Yeah. It's it's funny because creatine has been around for I mean ever for
has been around for I mean ever for decades and it's always been in my mind
decades and it's always been in my mind it was like one of those Jim bro things.
it was like one of those Jim bro things. I'm like I don't need to be swole.
I'm like I don't need to be swole. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't need creatine get get swole. And
I don't need creatine get get swole. And you know this is this was the thought
you know this is this was the thought for for many many years. And then over
for for many many years. And then over the last five years or so
the last five years or so the effects of creatine on the brain
the effects of creatine on the brain started to really get my interest.
started to really get my interest. anything that affects the brain I really
anything that affects the brain I really become interested in. And so that's kind
become interested in. And so that's kind of what did get me the most excited
of what did get me the most excited about about creatine, but also I started
about about creatine, but also I started doing a lot of resistance training. And
doing a lot of resistance training. And so I was like, "Okay, here I am now. I'm
so I was like, "Okay, here I am now. I'm like one of those gym guys. I'm doing
like one of those gym guys. I'm doing I'm doing the barbells. I'm doing the,
I'm doing the barbells. I'm doing the, you know, the squats and the deadlifts
you know, the squats and the deadlifts and all that." And so so why not give
and all that." And so so why not give myself some of the creatine? Well, what
myself some of the creatine? Well, what is creatine, right? Why is it important?
is creatine, right? Why is it important? You talked about earlier, you know, why
You talked about earlier, you know, why doesn't our body just make more of these
doesn't our body just make more of these things that are so beneficial? We do
things that are so beneficial? We do make creatine. We make about, I don't
make creatine. We make about, I don't know, our liver makes about 1 to three
know, our liver makes about 1 to three grams a day of creatine and our brain
grams a day of creatine and our brain also makes creatine and those are the
also makes creatine and those are the two organs that make it. Creatine gets
two organs that make it. Creatine gets consumed by other tissues like the
consumed by other tissues like the muscle is probably the one that's the
muscle is probably the one that's the greediest because creatine is stored as
greediest because creatine is stored as phosphocreatine but it's used to make
phosphocreatine but it's used to make energy essentially. So it can increase
energy essentially. So it can increase muscle mass, it can increase muscle
muscle mass, it can increase muscle strength in combination with resistance
strength in combination with resistance training because you're able to
training because you're able to regenerate and make energy faster. So,
regenerate and make energy faster. So, for example, I became interested in it
for example, I became interested in it after reading studies where people that
after reading studies where people that supplemented with creatine that were
supplemented with creatine that were engaged in resistance training were able
engaged in resistance training were able to gain more lean body mass. They were
to gain more lean body mass. They were able to gain more strength. It was
able to gain more strength. It was increasing their training volume. So,
increasing their training volume. So, you can do one to two more reps, right,
you can do one to two more reps, right, of of whatever exercise you're doing.
of of whatever exercise you're doing. And it seems to decrease the recovery
And it seems to decrease the recovery time between those those sets as well.
time between those those sets as well. So, you're able to increase your
So, you're able to increase your training volume. Well, anything that's
training volume. Well, anything that's going to in increase your training
going to in increase your training volume is going to then have the
volume is going to then have the downstream effect of, you know,
downstream effect of, you know, increasing the adaptations like
increasing the adaptations like increased muscle mass or increased
increased muscle mass or increased muscle strength. I started supplementing
muscle strength. I started supplementing with creatine about a year ago and I
with creatine about a year ago and I started supplementing with it for that
started supplementing with it for that reason, for the my training and I was
reason, for the my training and I was doing about five grams a day because
doing about five grams a day because that was really what was shown to to be
that was really what was shown to to be beneficial for muscle health in
beneficial for muscle health in combination with resistance training.
combination with resistance training. And it's important for people to realize
And it's important for people to realize that supplementing with creatine by
that supplementing with creatine by itself, without any type of resistance
itself, without any type of resistance training, isn't going to grow your
training, isn't going to grow your muscle. It's not going to make you
muscle. It's not going to make you stronger. You have to put in the effort
stronger. You have to put in the effort because what creatine is doing, it's
because what creatine is doing, it's helping you make the energy quicker,
helping you make the energy quicker, right? And that and then being able to
right? And that and then being able to make that energy quicker means that
make that energy quicker means that you're able to then do that exercise
you're able to then do that exercise better, um, harder, more of it, right?
better, um, harder, more of it, right? So, um, it's sort of sup supercharging
So, um, it's sort of sup supercharging your exercise routine.
your exercise routine. and five grams a day was like, "Okay,
and five grams a day was like, "Okay, perfect. That's what I'm doing. I'm
perfect. That's what I'm doing. I'm doing five grams a day." And definitely
doing five grams a day." And definitely noticed an effect on my training volume
noticed an effect on my training volume where I was, you know, doing more more
where I was, you know, doing more more reps. So that was like, okay, a year
reps. So that was like, okay, a year ago, I had already been aware of the
ago, I had already been aware of the effects on the brain. I thought maybe
effects on the brain. I thought maybe the five grams a day would do that. So
the five grams a day would do that. So what are the effects on the brain? Well,
what are the effects on the brain? Well, your brain also consumes a lot of
your brain also consumes a lot of energy, you know, needs a lot of energy.
energy, you know, needs a lot of energy. So it does make its own creatine. But it
So it does make its own creatine. But it turns out if you can if you can give
turns out if you can if you can give your brain more of that creatine
your brain more of that creatine particularly under a period of anything
particularly under a period of anything that's causing stress. So let's say lack
that's causing stress. So let's say lack of sleep or let's say emotional
of sleep or let's say emotional psychological stress or in my case high
psychological stress or in my case high cognitive load where you're just every
cognitive load where you're just every day learning concepts, complex things.
day learning concepts, complex things. you're trying to remember them. You're
you're trying to remember them. You're putting ideas together and coming up
putting ideas together and coming up with new hypotheses and you know, you're
with new hypotheses and you know, you're just you're just you're studying a lot
just you're just you're studying a lot and it's very cognitively demanding and
and it's very cognitively demanding and it's it's a type of stress on your
it's it's a type of stress on your brain. That's like my life, right? Um
brain. That's like my life, right? Um under this condition of stress,
under this condition of stress, depression is another one. That's a
depression is another one. That's a stress on your brain or neurodeenerative
stress on your brain or neurodeenerative disease. That's a stress on your brain.
disease. That's a stress on your brain. So any kind of stressful condition,
So any kind of stressful condition, that's where creatine shines in the
that's where creatine shines in the brain. I would argue that I mean all of
brain. I would argue that I mean all of us who who has the perfect amount of
us who who has the perfect amount of sleep never has stress nobody right
sleep never has stress nobody right there's always some sort of stress in
there's always some sort of stress in the background. So um that's when I was
the background. So um that's when I was like okay so if you're the perfect
like okay so if you're the perfect person you have no stress you get the
person you have no stress you get the perfect amount of sleep every night your
perfect amount of sleep every night your brain makes enough creatine to kind of
brain makes enough creatine to kind of do what it needs to do. I know that I'm
do what it needs to do. I know that I'm constantly under stress. So um I'm like
constantly under stress. So um I'm like okay well I think I need a boost. And
okay well I think I need a boost. And this is where a lot of very interesting
this is where a lot of very interesting studies have come out of many different
studies have come out of many different labs. Um, some out of Germany that
labs. Um, some out of Germany that looked at the dose of creatine and how
looked at the dose of creatine and how it increases creatine levels in the
it increases creatine levels in the brain. And this is why I now supplement
brain. And this is why I now supplement with 10 grams a day. So the study out of
with 10 grams a day. So the study out of Germany
Germany found that five grams a day of creatine,
found that five grams a day of creatine, if you're supplementing with five grams
if you're supplementing with five grams a day, your muscles are greedily
a day, your muscles are greedily consuming it. Particularly if you're
consuming it. Particularly if you're working out, they want it. They want it.
working out, they want it. They want it. after about five grams a day, especially
after about five grams a day, especially over a few months, like you're you're
over a few months, like you're you're saturating your muscle and that's
saturating your muscle and that's enough, right? Anything above that kind
enough, right? Anything above that kind of spills over to the brain. And so they
of spills over to the brain. And so they what this German study found was that 10
what this German study found was that 10 grams of creatine increased creatine
grams of creatine increased creatine levels in several different regions of
levels in several different regions of the brain. And that was probably the
the brain. And that was probably the most exciting, you know, I would say
most exciting, you know, I would say evidence that supplementing higher than
evidence that supplementing higher than five grams a day was actually doing
five grams a day was actually doing something in terms of getting creatine
something in terms of getting creatine into the brain.
into the brain. There have now been a variety of studies
There have now been a variety of studies that have looked at different outcomes,
that have looked at different outcomes, right? So, if you supplement with 10
right? So, if you supplement with 10 grams of creatine or even go higher than
grams of creatine or even go higher than that, like 20 grams of creatine, how
that, like 20 grams of creatine, how does that affect cognitive function,
does that affect cognitive function, right? And so, um some of these studies
right? And so, um some of these studies have been been done by uh Dr. Darren
have been been done by uh Dr. Darren Kandow. He's um at the University of
Kandow. He's um at the University of Regina in Canada and it's looked they've
Regina in Canada and it's looked they've looked at things like sleep deprivation
looked at things like sleep deprivation and it's been found that if you take
and it's been found that if you take someone and you sleep deprive them for
someone and you sleep deprive them for 21 hours and give them about 25 to 30
21 hours and give them about 25 to 30 grams of creatine, it completely negates
grams of creatine, it completely negates the cognitive deficits of sleep
the cognitive deficits of sleep deprivation. Actually, not only does it
deprivation. Actually, not only does it negate the cognitive deficits of sleep
negate the cognitive deficits of sleep deprivation, it makes people function
deprivation, it makes people function better than if they were well-rested.
better than if they were well-rested. That's where I was like, wait a minute,
That's where I was like, wait a minute, there's many times when I'm traveling,
there's many times when I'm traveling, I'm jet-lagged. Uh lots of times when
I'm jet-lagged. Uh lots of times when I'm sleep deprived and I have to be
I'm sleep deprived and I have to be doing a podcast or a presentation,
doing a podcast or a presentation, whatever. And in those situations, I go
whatever. And in those situations, I go up from my 10 grams to more like 20
up from my 10 grams to more like 20 grams. Like today for example, I wasn't
grams. Like today for example, I wasn't really sleepdeprived, but you know,
really sleepdeprived, but you know, there was a lot of high cognitive
there was a lot of high cognitive demand. This is a long podcast. There's
demand. This is a long podcast. There's all that stuff. And so I went up to 20
all that stuff. And so I went up to 20 grams today on my creatine. And I Well,
grams today on my creatine. And I Well, I will say even at the 10 grams for me,
I will say even at the 10 grams for me, we were talking about this with respect
we were talking about this with respect to being in ketosis.
to being in ketosis. I don't feel that mid-afternoon crash
I don't feel that mid-afternoon crash when I have the creatine. Not being on a
when I have the creatine. Not being on a ketogenic diet, not being in ketosis.
ketogenic diet, not being in ketosis. It's very clear for me and I've done
It's very clear for me and I've done this where sometimes I only do five
this where sometimes I only do five grams and then if I do that I'll notice
grams and then if I do that I'll notice I'm like why am I tired right now? So
I'm like why am I tired right now? So there's something interesting and maybe
there's something interesting and maybe it's placebo. I'm going to throw that
it's placebo. I'm going to throw that out there. Very possible. But I don't
out there. Very possible. But I don't know maybe the creatine is again it's
know maybe the creatine is again it's able to regenerate that energy quicker
able to regenerate that energy quicker and so that's also beneficial for the
and so that's also beneficial for the brain. And now I I would say all these
brain. And now I I would say all these creatine researchers a lot of them are
creatine researchers a lot of them are shifting to the brain. And it used to be
shifting to the brain. And it used to be all muscle focused and now people are
all muscle focused and now people are super interested in what creatine is
super interested in what creatine is doing to the brain, especially if you're
doing to the brain, especially if you're supplementing with more of it. And you
supplementing with more of it. And you know, this is important for people that
know, this is important for people that are under a stressful situation, but
are under a stressful situation, but also for vegans because creatine is
also for vegans because creatine is found in food, mostly in animal products
found in food, mostly in animal products like meat and poultry and fish, dairy. A
like meat and poultry and fish, dairy. A lot of vegans don't eat that. And I've
lot of vegans don't eat that. And I've had so many of my vegan friends,
had so many of my vegan friends, I've got them on the creatine, and it's
I've got them on the creatine, and it's changed their lives. I mean, they're
changed their lives. I mean, they're like, "This is like incredible." You
like, "This is like incredible." You know, can you imagine someone who's not
know, can you imagine someone who's not getting any creatine from their diet
getting any creatine from their diet because they eat no meat and all of a
because they eat no meat and all of a sudden they start supplementing with 5,
sudden they start supplementing with 5, 10 grams of creatine and it's like they
10 grams of creatine and it's like they have energy. Some people say they they
have energy. Some people say they they require less sleep, which is kind of
require less sleep, which is kind of interesting. That's kind of a comment
interesting. That's kind of a comment I've heard many, many times from people
I've heard many, many times from people is that it's like their brain doesn't
is that it's like their brain doesn't need as much sleep. They have more
need as much sleep. They have more energy. So, um, I've been a big fan of
energy. So, um, I've been a big fan of the creatine, um, not only for the
the creatine, um, not only for the muscle, especially because, you know,
muscle, especially because, you know, working out is something that's very
working out is something that's very important, but for the brain as well.
important, but for the brain as well. I always thought of creatine as
I always thought of creatine as something that you you took and you kind
something that you you took and you kind of had to load up on, and then over a
of had to load up on, and then over a couple of weeks or months, the effects
couple of weeks or months, the effects would kick in. But you're telling me
would kick in. But you're telling me that if I had creatine in the morning,
that if I had creatine in the morning, that same day, I would experience
that same day, I would experience potentially improved cognition if I have
potentially improved cognition if I have a big enough dose.
a big enough dose. Yes. So, um, great question. A lot of
Yes. So, um, great question. A lot of studies that have been done that you're
studies that have been done that you're referring to have been done in the
referring to have been done in the context of exercise and muscular
context of exercise and muscular performance. And the reason why people
performance. And the reason why people have to load up on like they do a
have to load up on like they do a loading phase, let's say 20 grams and
loading phase, let's say 20 grams and then they go down to this sort of
then they go down to this sort of maintenance phase of five grams is
maintenance phase of five grams is because it takes I don't know I think
because it takes I don't know I think it's about a month or so before you can
it's about a month or so before you can saturate your muscular stores of
saturate your muscular stores of creatine. And then
creatine. And then what does that mean? It means that um
what does that mean? It means that um the creatine which is actually stored in
the creatine which is actually stored in your muscle as phosphocreatine is there
your muscle as phosphocreatine is there and ready to be used to make energy. So
and ready to be used to make energy. So so it takes again it takes about a month
so it takes again it takes about a month or so to do that unless you are really
or so to do that unless you are really giving your muscles a high dose right.
giving your muscles a high dose right. So the five grams a day it only it can
So the five grams a day it only it can only do it for so many days and then
only do it for so many days and then finally you get saturated. When you do
finally you get saturated. When you do this loading phase you kind of just
this loading phase you kind of just accelerate that whole process. And so
accelerate that whole process. And so that's why when people are doing these
that's why when people are doing these experiments where they want to test the
experiments where they want to test the effects of creatine, they want they want
effects of creatine, they want they want the participants to have really high
the participants to have really high levels of creatine in their muscles
levels of creatine in their muscles quick because they don't want to do a
quick because they don't want to do a month-long experiment, right? They want
month-long experiment, right? They want the experiment to be like a couple of
the experiment to be like a couple of weeks or a week. So that was kind of the
weeks or a week. So that was kind of the whole concept behind this loading phase.
whole concept behind this loading phase. If you're not someone who's going to
If you're not someone who's going to some kind of competition, you know, like
some kind of competition, you know, like your CrossFit games or something, you
your CrossFit games or something, you don't really need to do that loading
don't really need to do that loading phase if you've already been
phase if you've already been supplementing with five grams a day for
supplementing with five grams a day for like a month. When it comes to the
like a month. When it comes to the brain, what's happening if you get above
brain, what's happening if you get above that five grams, that's pretty much all
that five grams, that's pretty much all consumed by the muscle. You're having
consumed by the muscle. You're having some leftover in circulation and the
some leftover in circulation and the brain takes it up and it takes it up,
brain takes it up and it takes it up, right? When it re what it really shines
right? When it re what it really shines is under that stressful condition, which
is under that stressful condition, which again for me, I feel like every day is
again for me, I feel like every day is this is is like cognitively demanding
this is is like cognitively demanding for me because I'm constantly, you know,
for me because I'm constantly, you know, learning new material or learning new
learning new material or learning new information or working on things, right?
information or working on things, right? And so there's a lot of cognitive stress
And so there's a lot of cognitive stress on my brain. And so I feel like I'm
on my brain. And so I feel like I'm constantly under that stress. And that's
constantly under that stress. And that's where getting the creatine in your brain
where getting the creatine in your brain helps you make that energy quicker. And
helps you make that energy quicker. And so that's why like I've done I've had,
so that's why like I've done I've had, you know, been jetlagged and have have
you know, been jetlagged and have have to give a talk at you, you know, like
to give a talk at you, you know, like 5:00 a.m. in the morning, my my
5:00 a.m. in the morning, my my biological time after not getting sleep.
biological time after not getting sleep. And I've done like 25 grams of creatine.
And I've done like 25 grams of creatine. And it it's insane how much it helps me.
And it it's insane how much it helps me. Again, it could be placebo because I'm
Again, it could be placebo because I'm anticipating that effect, which is fine.
anticipating that effect, which is fine. Placebo is a real thing. It's great. I'm
Placebo is a real thing. It's great. I'm all about it. But there's some evidence
all about it. But there's some evidence also that this works, right? That the
also that this works, right? That the creatine is helping with under that
creatine is helping with under that sleep deprivation and that stressful
sleep deprivation and that stressful condition.
condition. I was reading about a study in 2025
I was reading about a study in 2025 where they
where they gave creatine to people that had
gave creatine to people that had depressive symptoms alongside CBT
depressive symptoms alongside CBT training. And the people that had
training. And the people that had creatine and the cognitive behavioral
creatine and the cognitive behavioral therapy training experienced a greater
therapy training experienced a greater improvement in their depression symptoms
improvement in their depression symptoms than those who just received the
than those who just received the cognitive behavioral therapy, which is
cognitive behavioral therapy, which is which is incredible.
which is incredible. It's fascinating. I mean, depression is
It's fascinating. I mean, depression is a type of brain stress, right? I mean,
a type of brain stress, right? I mean, we know inflammation plays a role in in
we know inflammation plays a role in in depression. We know oxidative stress
depression. We know oxidative stress plays a role in depression. And there
plays a role in depression. And there have now been some animal studies that
have now been some animal studies that have shown creatine is somehow having an
have shown creatine is somehow having an anti-inflammatory effect. I that hasn't
anti-inflammatory effect. I that hasn't all been worked out. So I don't know if
all been worked out. So I don't know if it's all just the energy component of
it's all just the energy component of it. It could also be this other sort of
it. It could also be this other sort of newly identified role that creatine's
newly identified role that creatine's playing in sort of having an
playing in sort of having an anti-inflammatory effect. And I don't
anti-inflammatory effect. And I don't know much enough about that. I don't
know much enough about that. I don't know that there's enough even known
know that there's enough even known about that, but I do know that it
about that, but I do know that it exists. And it's fascinating because
exists. And it's fascinating because again I think where creatine really
again I think where creatine really shines in the brain and it's been shown
shines in the brain and it's been shown study after study is under some kind of
study after study is under some kind of stressful condition depression or sleep
stressful condition depression or sleep deprivation or there's a new study that
deprivation or there's a new study that came out it was published I don't know a
came out it was published I don't know a month ago or so showing that it was a
month ago or so showing that it was a very small pilot study and I want to
very small pilot study and I want to caveat this there was no placebo control
caveat this there was no placebo control but it did show that giving people with
but it did show that giving people with Alzheimer's disease creatine I believe
Alzheimer's disease creatine I believe it was 20 grams a day did improve their
it was 20 grams a day did improve their cognition. And so again, this is a whole
cognition. And so again, this is a whole new field where now we're looking at
new field where now we're looking at creatine in the brain, not just the gym
creatine in the brain, not just the gym bros and not just the muscular effects,
bros and not just the muscular effects, but in the brain and how it's affecting
but in the brain and how it's affecting the brain and being beneficial for
the brain and being beneficial for cognition, for brain aging, for
cognition, for brain aging, for depression.
depression. Is there a link or an association with
Is there a link or an association with cancer outcomes in creatine? Wondering
cancer outcomes in creatine? Wondering because I was there was there was a
because I was there was there was a study that I was looking at earlier.
study that I was looking at earlier. Yeah, this one it says a a 2025 study of
Yeah, this one it says a a 2025 study of 25,000 people each found that for each
25,000 people each found that for each additional 0.09 grams of creatine over a
additional 0.09 grams of creatine over a two-day average was linked to a 14%
two-day average was linked to a 14% reduction in cancer risk.
reduction in cancer risk. Right.
Right. Which was in the Frontiers Journal and
Which was in the Frontiers Journal and reported by the BBC.
reported by the BBC. Yeah. That it's it's like a new
Yeah. That it's it's like a new unexplored, you know, association here
unexplored, you know, association here where it's like I I don't know why
where it's like I I don't know why creatine is doing it. Is it the
creatine is doing it. Is it the anti-inflammatory effect? Is it who
anti-inflammatory effect? Is it who knows? But again, I mean that I I was
knows? But again, I mean that I I was aware of that study and it's like a
aware of that study and it's like a whole new area that needs to be explored
whole new area that needs to be explored where you know some people were worried
where you know some people were worried about creatine actually causing cancer.
about creatine actually causing cancer. I've actually had people ask me that
I've actually had people ask me that question and it's actually the opposite
question and it's actually the opposite where it seems to be reducing cancer
where it seems to be reducing cancer risk.
risk. The some of the other sort of
The some of the other sort of misconceptions around creatine are that
misconceptions around creatine are that it's going to I mean there was this
it's going to I mean there was this stereotype that people take it they get
stereotype that people take it they get massive muscles and they become bloated.
massive muscles and they become bloated. So I think that put a lot of women off
So I think that put a lot of women off in particular according to some research
in particular according to some research that we actually did just to understand
that we actually did just to understand perceptions of creatine in my investment
perceptions of creatine in my investment fund. But the other one was hair loss.
fund. But the other one was hair loss. People think there's some sort of
People think there's some sort of association with hair loss. I.e. if you
association with hair loss. I.e. if you take creatine you're more likely to lose
take creatine you're more likely to lose your hair.
your hair. Right. So there was this one study that
Right. So there was this one study that was published I don't even know how many
was published I don't even know how many decades ago. Maybe you can pull it up
decades ago. Maybe you can pull it up but it was in rugby players I believe
but it was in rugby players I believe and these rugby players that were given
and these rugby players that were given I I believe it was a high dose. Maybe it
I I believe it was a high dose. Maybe it was 20 grams. I can't remember the exact
was 20 grams. I can't remember the exact dose but um they had increased levels of
dose but um they had increased levels of dihydrotestosterone
dihydrotestosterone DHT which is something that is linked to
DHT which is something that is linked to androgenic alipcia. So this would be you
androgenic alipcia. So this would be you know basically your the the DHT can
know basically your the the DHT can affect the hair follicle and keep it in
affect the hair follicle and keep it in this like stunted phase where it's not
this like stunted phase where it's not growing and so that can cause hair loss.
growing and so that can cause hair loss. And that one study didn't measure hair
And that one study didn't measure hair loss. It just again looked at the the
loss. It just again looked at the the DHT, the dihydrotestosterone levels.
DHT, the dihydrotestosterone levels. It's never been replicated. There's
It's never been replicated. There's after so many decades, it's never had
after so many decades, it's never had any animal evidence showing that this
any animal evidence showing that this actually causes hair loss. Nothing has
actually causes hair loss. Nothing has really come up showing that this is
really come up showing that this is something to be concerned about. So, I
something to be concerned about. So, I take it as, okay, it's like a one-off
take it as, okay, it's like a one-off thing. Who knows what was going on here?
thing. Who knows what was going on here? But like, you would think if it was
But like, you would think if it was real, it would be replicated after when
real, it would be replicated after when was it published? 2009
was it published? 2009 2009.
2009. Yeah. So, it was a group of rugby
Yeah. So, it was a group of rugby players. They were given 25 grams a day
players. They were given 25 grams a day of of creatine. Um, but there was
of of creatine. Um, but there was actually a study, a randomized control
actually a study, a randomized control trial done in 2025, this year with 45
trial done in 2025, this year with 45 resistant trained men all given five
resistant trained men all given five grams a day of creatine over 12 weeks.
grams a day of creatine over 12 weeks. And there was no significant difference
And there was no significant difference found in their hair outcomes or DHT
found in their hair outcomes or DHT versus placebo.
versus placebo. There we go. When was that published?
There we go. When was that published? 2025.
2025. Oh, this year. randomized control
Oh, this year. randomized control of
of med. Well, I mean to get to get also to
med. Well, I mean to get to get also to your your other point about the water
your your other point about the water weight gain. I know this is a real thing
weight gain. I know this is a real thing because also several of my my
because also several of my my girlfriends were concerned about this as
girlfriends were concerned about this as well. And it's funny, you know, creatine
well. And it's funny, you know, creatine does bring water into the cell and but
does bring water into the cell and but that's actually a it's not a bad thing,
that's actually a it's not a bad thing, right? And it you're really not going to
right? And it you're really not going to get a big gain in weight. I mean, I
get a big gain in weight. I mean, I can't imagine. There's nothing more than
can't imagine. There's nothing more than like two pounds,
like two pounds, you know, if if if anything at all. So,
you know, if if if anything at all. So, I do think that is sort of uh something
I do think that is sort of uh something that's I don't it's a it's a it's a fear
that's I don't it's a it's a it's a fear that's not justified in my opinion. I
that's not justified in my opinion. I mean, you lose you you gain, you know,
mean, you lose you you gain, you know, four pounds of water weight when you're
four pounds of water weight when you're on your menstrual cycle.
on your menstrual cycle. Yeah. You mentioned fasting.
Yeah. You mentioned fasting. Yeah. There's been lots of conversation
Yeah. There's been lots of conversation around fasting, around whether it's
around fasting, around whether it's good, bad, how long to fast, or whether
good, bad, how long to fast, or whether just restricting your calories is the
just restricting your calories is the same as fasting. A lot of people talk
same as fasting. A lot of people talk about autophagy. My girlfriend talks
about autophagy. My girlfriend talks about water fasting. What is your
about water fasting. What is your perspective on the role of fasting, how
perspective on the role of fasting, how we should do it, if we should do it,
we should do it, if we should do it, when we should do it, who should do it?
when we should do it, who should do it? I think it depends on what your goal is.
I think it depends on what your goal is. So you mentioned people talk about
So you mentioned people talk about calorie restriction and really you know
calorie restriction and really you know is the fasting just about the calorie
is the fasting just about the calorie restriction and I think when it comes to
restriction and I think when it comes to weight loss losing losing weight
weight loss losing losing weight predominantly hopefully fat not muscle
predominantly hopefully fat not muscle then calorie restriction is the main
then calorie restriction is the main thing to do here and intermittent
thing to do here and intermittent fasting is sort of a tool to get you
fasting is sort of a tool to get you there. In other words, people that are
there. In other words, people that are doing intermittent fasting tend to eat
doing intermittent fasting tend to eat fewer calories. And that's been shown in
fewer calories. And that's been shown in several studies, even if they aren't
several studies, even if they aren't counting their calories because they are
counting their calories because they are limited in the amount of time they're
limited in the amount of time they're eating and then they're fasting for a
eating and then they're fasting for a longer period of time. They end up just
longer period of time. They end up just consuming naturally fewer calories.
consuming naturally fewer calories. Being in a calorie deficit, is that
Being in a calorie deficit, is that going to put you into the ketogenic
going to put you into the ketogenic state that you get from not fasting?
state that you get from not fasting? No. Not if not necessarily. No, it's
No. Not if not necessarily. No, it's not. So you can be in a calorie deficit,
not. So you can be in a calorie deficit, but it it depends, right? So when you're
but it it depends, right? So when you're when you're in the fasted state, what's
when you're in the fasted state, what's important here is you're activating a
important here is you're activating a bunch of pathways that don't become
bunch of pathways that don't become active when you're in a fed state. And
active when you're in a fed state. And there's a lot of biochemical reactions
there's a lot of biochemical reactions that sort of dictate all that. But you
that sort of dictate all that. But you mentioned autophagy, right? And and
mentioned autophagy, right? And and that's the big one, and that's happening
that's the big one, and that's happening only when you're really in a fasted
only when you're really in a fasted state.
state. What is it?
What is it? There's different types of it. So
There's different types of it. So generally speaking, it's the clearing
generally speaking, it's the clearing out of damaged stuff within your cell.
out of damaged stuff within your cell. So what is damaged stuff? It can be
So what is damaged stuff? It can be protein aggregates. For example, if we
protein aggregates. For example, if we think about in neurons, amaloid beta
think about in neurons, amaloid beta protein aggregates. So autophagy could
protein aggregates. So autophagy could play a role in clearing that out.
play a role in clearing that out. The plaques and stuff you get in your
The plaques and stuff you get in your brain.
brain. Exactly. But you also get plaques in
Exactly. But you also get plaques in your cardiovascular system. So autophagy
your cardiovascular system. So autophagy can play a role in clearing that out. Um
can play a role in clearing that out. Um but it also can be fragments of DNA. It
but it also can be fragments of DNA. It can be, you know, all all sorts of gunk
can be, you know, all all sorts of gunk and stuff that just can accumulate
and stuff that just can accumulate inside of your cell. And so you're kind
inside of your cell. And so you're kind of getting rid of that. Also, it can be
of getting rid of that. Also, it can be even on the level of, let's say,
even on the level of, let's say, it's the organal level. So you can
it's the organal level. So you can actually have your mitochondria. We
actually have your mitochondria. We talked about mitochondria being the
talked about mitochondria being the major source of energy inside of our
major source of energy inside of our cells. Mitochondria are very important
cells. Mitochondria are very important for the health of all of our cells, our
for the health of all of our cells, our neurons, our muscle, because they
neurons, our muscle, because they produce energy. But mitochondria also
produce energy. But mitochondria also accumulate a lot of damage quite easily
accumulate a lot of damage quite easily because they produce energy and they use
because they produce energy and they use oxygen to do that. They make a lot of
oxygen to do that. They make a lot of what's called reactive oxygen species.
what's called reactive oxygen species. So these are things that can really
So these are things that can really react with our DNA with proteins inside
react with our DNA with proteins inside of our our cells with with um lipids. So
of our our cells with with um lipids. So the cell membranes. So your mitochondria
the cell membranes. So your mitochondria don't really have a repair system like
don't really have a repair system like our DNA does. So we have DNA repair
our DNA does. So we have DNA repair enzymes that can repair damage to our
enzymes that can repair damage to our DNA, right? That's where magnesium comes
DNA, right? That's where magnesium comes in. magnesium is required for these
in. magnesium is required for these enzymes to be activated to repair damage
enzymes to be activated to repair damage to our DNA to prevent cancer. Our
to our DNA to prevent cancer. Our mitochondria don't have that kind of
mitochondria don't have that kind of repair system. They have another repair
repair system. They have another repair system and one of it is what's called
system and one of it is what's called mphagy which is kind of a subp part of
mphagy which is kind of a subp part of autophagy and it's where the
autophagy and it's where the mitochondria they accumulate damage. you
mitochondria they accumulate damage. you can essentially
can essentially take that mitochondria and get rid of
take that mitochondria and get rid of it, right? Or a piece of that
it, right? Or a piece of that mitochondria that damage and get rid of
mitochondria that damage and get rid of it through this sort of autoagy type of
it through this sort of autoagy type of thing, but it's called mopagy. And that
thing, but it's called mopagy. And that happens with other types of what are
happens with other types of what are called organels within our cells. So
called organels within our cells. So this autophagy process, this autophagy
this autophagy process, this autophagy is sort of a general term, but it's
is sort of a general term, but it's essentially the cleaning out of damage.
essentially the cleaning out of damage. It's the repair process for damage. And
It's the repair process for damage. And it's something that happens most the
it's something that happens most the time when we're in a fasted state, which
time when we're in a fasted state, which typically happens when we're sleeping.
typically happens when we're sleeping. How long do do I have to be in a fasted
How long do do I have to be in a fasted state for?
state for? I mean, it depends. I would say
I mean, it depends. I would say that we haven't really worked that out
that we haven't really worked that out great in humans because people aren't
great in humans because people aren't measure measuring biomarkers of
measure measuring biomarkers of autophagy in humans. There have been
autophagy in humans. There have been some studies that have looked at being
some studies that have looked at being in a fasted state for like 16 hours. And
in a fasted state for like 16 hours. And essentially once you get once you break
essentially once you get once you break through that part of depleting all your
through that part of depleting all your liver glycogen that's an important you
liver glycogen that's an important you know precursor for activating autophagy.
know precursor for activating autophagy. So I mentioned earlier that happens
So I mentioned earlier that happens after about 12 hours right so as you get
after about 12 hours right so as you get to 12 13 14 15 16 hours then you're
to 12 13 14 15 16 hours then you're probably getting to that state of
probably getting to that state of autophagy. Um however there's such
autophagy. Um however there's such limited evidence evidence on that in
limited evidence evidence on that in humans. A lot of it comes from animal
humans. A lot of it comes from animal studies. With that caveat, I will say
studies. With that caveat, I will say that you can get a lot of benefits. So,
that you can get a lot of benefits. So, some of the metabolic benefits from
some of the metabolic benefits from fasting include improved glucose levels,
fasting include improved glucose levels, improved um blood pressure regulation,
improved um blood pressure regulation, metabolic effects, improved for example,
metabolic effects, improved for example, weight loss. Right? Now, can you get all
weight loss. Right? Now, can you get all of that from just doing caloric
of that from just doing caloric restriction versus doing t like this
restriction versus doing t like this intermittent fasting? Right? You can get
intermittent fasting? Right? You can get a lot of it, but there have been studies
a lot of it, but there have been studies showing that doing doing this sort of
showing that doing doing this sort of intermittent fasting is beneficial uh
intermittent fasting is beneficial uh for some of these metabolic parameters
for some of these metabolic parameters outside of the caloric being in a
outside of the caloric being in a caloric deficit.
caloric deficit. What does that mean? Metabolic
What does that mean? Metabolic parameters
parameters again glucose regulation, blood
again glucose regulation, blood pressure, your blood pressure control as
pressure, your blood pressure control as well. So these things have been shown in
well. So these things have been shown in in people that are doing timerestricted
in people that are doing timerestricted eating. So they're basically doing a
eating. So they're basically doing a type of intermittent fasting where
type of intermittent fasting where especially if they're doing a really
especially if they're doing a really compressed window. So they're eating all
compressed window. So they're eating all their food within six hours and then
their food within six hours and then fasting for like 18 hours.
fasting for like 18 hours. That's really beneficial, right? Because
That's really beneficial, right? Because and even if they have the same amount of
and even if they have the same amount of calories as people that are calorically
calories as people that are calorically restricted, they've compared those
restricted, they've compared those head-to-head. people that are doing the
head-to-head. people that are doing the fasting have better improvements in
fasting have better improvements in their glucose regulation, better
their glucose regulation, better improvements in in um their blood
improvements in in um their blood pressure than people that are even still
pressure than people that are even still eating fewer calories but not doing the
eating fewer calories but not doing the fasting component.
fasting component. So, what would you recommend for the
So, what would you recommend for the average person? I asked you earlier on
average person? I asked you earlier on to give me a a sort of a perfect uh
to give me a a sort of a perfect uh a perfect prescription of what I should
a perfect prescription of what I should do in terms of fasting
do in terms of fasting on a daily basis. Do you think I should
on a daily basis. Do you think I should have eating uh sort of fasted windows
have eating uh sort of fasted windows of, you know, 12 to 20 hours?
of, you know, 12 to 20 hours? You know, I think it really depends on
You know, I think it really depends on what you're looking for. And personally,
what you're looking for. And personally, if you are wanting to have this more
if you are wanting to have this more autophagy kind of potentially autophagy
autophagy kind of potentially autophagy activation where you're you're clearing
activation where you're you're clearing away stuff within your cells. Again, we
away stuff within your cells. Again, we don't really know the hard number yet,
don't really know the hard number yet, but I would say yeah, you probably want
but I would say yeah, you probably want to be around a 16
to be around a 16 hour window of not eating.
hour window of not eating. What do you do?
What do you do? I mean, it depends on the day, you know,
I mean, it depends on the day, you know, on an optimal day.
on an optimal day. Most of the time, I'm I'm probably
Most of the time, I'm I'm probably eating all of my food within a 10-hour
eating all of my food within a 10-hour window. And so, I'm fasted for 14 hours,
window. And so, I'm fasted for 14 hours, but optimally, like it all depends on my
but optimally, like it all depends on my family and like eating dinner with my
family and like eating dinner with my family and what's going on.
family and what's going on. Do you ever do longer fasts? I don't do
Do you ever do longer fasts? I don't do I mean I would say a a day is like the
I mean I would say a a day is like the longest that I do but I do a lot of
longest that I do but I do a lot of exercise on top of that and so you can
exercise on top of that and so you can kind of kick yourself into that
kind of kick yourself into that autophagy state a little bit more
autophagy state a little bit more because it's kind of like we talked
because it's kind of like we talked about this it's a way of sort of
about this it's a way of sort of supercharging your ketosis and so if
supercharging your ketosis and so if you're exercising and fasting um that
you're exercising and fasting um that kind of supercharges that whole
kind of supercharges that whole autophagy system as well but um it I do
autophagy system as well but um it I do think it's a kind of an interesting idea
think it's a kind of an interesting idea uh to do some longer fasts maybe once a
uh to do some longer fasts maybe once a year, once a quarter depending
year, once a quarter depending why
why because you are activating that repair
because you are activating that repair process. Now you have to do resistance
process. Now you have to do resistance training because you don't want to lose
training because you don't want to lose muscle mass. Protein is important. It's
muscle mass. Protein is important. It's one of the signals for you know muscle
one of the signals for you know muscle protein synthesis which is essential for
protein synthesis which is essential for you know gaining muscle mass and
you know gaining muscle mass and maintaining muscle mass. Right.
maintaining muscle mass. Right. So after a fast you want to break the
So after a fast you want to break the fast with something protein richch.
fast with something protein richch. Absolutely. Definitely protein rich for
Absolutely. Definitely protein rich for sure. Um, but I think also during a fast
sure. Um, but I think also during a fast if you can do some kind of you want to
if you can do some kind of you want to you want to stimulate your muscles with
you want to stimulate your muscles with mechanical force because that's the
mechanical force because that's the other signal to stimulate muscle protein
other signal to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. And so I I think one of the
synthesis. And so I I think one of the biggest concerns people had with fasting
biggest concerns people had with fasting and this was over the last 5 years or so
and this was over the last 5 years or so is that studies have shown people that
is that studies have shown people that undergo intermittent fasting tend to
undergo intermittent fasting tend to lose muscle mass because they're eating
lose muscle mass because they're eating fewer meals. they're not getting as much
fewer meals. they're not getting as much protein and perhaps they're not doing
protein and perhaps they're not doing resistance training. Now, there have
resistance training. Now, there have been other studies that have looked at
been other studies that have looked at people doing intermittent fasting and
people doing intermittent fasting and resistance training and they don't lose
resistance training and they don't lose muscle mass because they are doing
muscle mass because they are doing they're getting that mechanical
they're getting that mechanical stimulation of their of their muscles
stimulation of their of their muscles which is preventing the loss of muscle
which is preventing the loss of muscle mass. And so, I think the take-home here
mass. And so, I think the take-home here is if you are doing intermittent
is if you are doing intermittent fasting, you want to make sure you're
fasting, you want to make sure you're getting all your protein, 1.6 1.2 to 1.6
getting all your protein, 1.6 1.2 to 1.6 six grams of protein per kilogram body
six grams of protein per kilogram body weight per day depending on how much
weight per day depending on how much you're resistance training. And you also
you're resistance training. And you also you want to make sure you're getting
you want to make sure you're getting your protein in that small window that
your protein in that small window that you're eating. And you want to make sure
you're eating. And you want to make sure that you're doing resistance training as
that you're doing resistance training as well. Those are two really important
well. Those are two really important things if you are going to do
things if you are going to do intermittent fasting.
intermittent fasting. There was a study I read which is linked
There was a study I read which is linked to that which said linked to that but
to that which said linked to that but sort of adjacent that says uh in in nine
sort of adjacent that says uh in in nine human trials they found that 23% of
human trials they found that 23% of people enjoyed better sleep after
people enjoyed better sleep after intermittent fasting. which I thought
intermittent fasting. which I thought was interesting.
was interesting. Yeah, cause causation is obviously hard
Yeah, cause causation is obviously hard to establish there, but
to establish there, but Right. I I think and that brings us to
Right. I I think and that brings us to this other sort of aspect of
this other sort of aspect of intermittent fasting, which is
intermittent fasting, which is timerestricted eating. Essentially, what
timerestricted eating. Essentially, what what's the best thing to do is really
what's the best thing to do is really you want to you want to eat within an
you want to you want to eat within an earlier time window. And there's a lot
earlier time window. And there's a lot of reasons for that. One of them is that
of reasons for that. One of them is that when you eat later in the day, let's say
when you eat later in the day, let's say 8 o'clock at night, nine o'clock at
8 o'clock at night, nine o'clock at night, your body is starting starting to
night, your body is starting starting to naturally make melatonin.
naturally make melatonin. That's a hormone that's involved in
That's a hormone that's involved in helping you get sleepy. Well, melatonin
helping you get sleepy. Well, melatonin also inhibits the production of insulin.
also inhibits the production of insulin. And so you basically
And so you basically will have elevated blood glucose levels
will have elevated blood glucose levels when you're eating later in the day
when you're eating later in the day because you're you're less you're you're
because you're you're less you're you're basically less gluc your your glucose
basically less gluc your your glucose regulation is impaired somewhat, right?
regulation is impaired somewhat, right? So it's better to try to eat your food
So it's better to try to eat your food earlier in the day, but then there's
earlier in the day, but then there's also this this area of you want to
also this this area of you want to probably stop eating like 3 hours before
probably stop eating like 3 hours before your natural bedtime. And that does
your natural bedtime. And that does affect sleep. So, if you think about it,
affect sleep. So, if you think about it, when you're sleeping, you don't want to
when you're sleeping, you don't want to be digesting. Like, there's all these
be digesting. Like, there's all these things that are activated during
things that are activated during digestion, and that's going to affect
digestion, and that's going to affect the way you sleep. And so, there are
the way you sleep. And so, there are some interesting studies that have found
some interesting studies that have found that people sleep better if they stop
that people sleep better if they stop eating at least three hours before bed.
eating at least three hours before bed. That is something that I do try to do
That is something that I do try to do almost daily. And um it's also something
almost daily. And um it's also something that was very interesting. I think a
that was very interesting. I think a friend of mine, Dr. Dr. Sachin Panda at
friend of mine, Dr. Dr. Sachin Panda at the Sulkq Institute was one of the first
the Sulkq Institute was one of the first people to observe that. He's got this
people to observe that. He's got this this app that he um has called my
this app that he um has called my circadian clock and he used he's used
circadian clock and he used he's used this app over the years for clinical
this app over the years for clinical trials where people will take a picture
trials where people will take a picture of their food and it timestamps the
of their food and it timestamps the foods that he knows what time they're
foods that he knows what time they're eating and when they stop eating.
eating and when they stop eating. And and people that are part of this
And and people that are part of this trial started to send him comments
trial started to send him comments going, "Oh, I stopped eating earlier and
going, "Oh, I stopped eating earlier and all of a sudden my sleep is better." And
all of a sudden my sleep is better." And after you start to get about 10, 20, 30
after you start to get about 10, 20, 30 people making the same comment, you
people making the same comment, you start to go, wait a minute, there's
start to go, wait a minute, there's something here, right? And so I think he
something here, right? And so I think he was one of the first people to actually
was one of the first people to actually um observe that that correlation between
um observe that that correlation between stop eating earlier and sleeping better.
stop eating earlier and sleeping better. Well, you talked about protein earlier
Well, you talked about protein earlier when we're talking about resistance
when we're talking about resistance training and fasting.
training and fasting. When should I Someone told me that
When should I Someone told me that you're supposed to take protein straight
you're supposed to take protein straight after you did the a resistance training
after you did the a resistance training workout. Straight after you lift the
workout. Straight after you lift the weights like 30 minutes after. Does it
weights like 30 minutes after. Does it matter?
matter? Well, we that's what was thought I think
Well, we that's what was thought I think previously for I don't know how many
previously for I don't know how many years it was thought this was there was
years it was thought this was there was an anabolic window, right? Where you
an anabolic window, right? Where you want to take in this protein within 30
want to take in this protein within 30 minutes to an hour of doing your
minutes to an hour of doing your resistance training. And that way the
resistance training. And that way the amino acids that are anabolic like
amino acids that are anabolic like leucine are going into the muscle and
leucine are going into the muscle and building muscle essentially, right? We
building muscle essentially, right? We now know that it's not really an
now know that it's not really an anabolic window. It's about your daily
anabolic window. It's about your daily protein intake because what exercise is
protein intake because what exercise is doing, what the resistance training is
doing, what the resistance training is doing is it's sensitizing all your
doing is it's sensitizing all your transporters and your muscle to amino
transporters and your muscle to amino acids. And that's that's happening over
acids. And that's that's happening over the course of 24 hours. So you can take
the course of 24 hours. So you can take that protein in within that day and it
that protein in within that day and it it really still do the same thing. So I
it really still do the same thing. So I don't think you have to slam your
don't think you have to slam your protein shake within 30 minutes to an
protein shake within 30 minutes to an hour. Maybe maybe if you're like a
hour. Maybe maybe if you're like a bodybuilder and you're really trying to
bodybuilder and you're really trying to get that little tiny tiny tiny
get that little tiny tiny tiny percentage, maybe you'll have a little
percentage, maybe you'll have a little bit of a benefit. But generally
bit of a benefit. But generally speaking, most people what you want to
speaking, most people what you want to look at is your daily protein intake
look at is your daily protein intake because that's essentially um the most
because that's essentially um the most important thing. And the exercise itself
important thing. And the exercise itself is sensitizing all these, you know,
is sensitizing all these, you know, transporters on your muscle that are
transporters on your muscle that are allowing the amino acids to come in and
allowing the amino acids to come in and build protein, increase muscle protein
build protein, increase muscle protein synthesis.
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And I'm so honored that once again, a company I own can sponsor my podcast.
company I own can sponsor my podcast. There's a term that you've used a few
There's a term that you've used a few times which I'm I'm not super well
times which I'm I'm not super well educated on, which is insulin
educated on, which is insulin resistance.
resistance. What is insulin resistance? Is that
What is insulin resistance? Is that something associated with diabetes? And
something associated with diabetes? And therefore, does someone like me need to
therefore, does someone like me need to care? I don't have diabetes.
care? I don't have diabetes. Okay, let's take a step back. when you
Okay, let's take a step back. when you are eating something that is going to
are eating something that is going to raise your blood glucose levels, right?
raise your blood glucose levels, right? You
You so like a piece of bread or some sugar
so like a piece of bread or some sugar or whatever,
or whatever, right? So essentially, if you're
right? So essentially, if you're increasing that glucose spike in your in
increasing that glucose spike in your in your bloodstream, you want to have that
your bloodstream, you want to have that glucose go somewhere. You want it to go
glucose go somewhere. You want it to go to your muscle and or sometimes it goes
to your muscle and or sometimes it goes to your atapost tissue. But in order to
to your atapost tissue. But in order to do that, you have to activate insulin.
do that, you have to activate insulin. And insulin then causes these
And insulin then causes these transporters that usually aren't active
transporters that usually aren't active to kind of come up and take in the
to kind of come up and take in the glucose. So insulin resistance is when
glucose. So insulin resistance is when you're basically constantly constantly
you're basically constantly constantly activating that pathway um such that
activating that pathway um such that your cells don't respond to the insulin
your cells don't respond to the insulin like they used to. And so the insulin
like they used to. And so the insulin isn't doing its job as well. And so
isn't doing its job as well. And so essentially your blood glucose levels
essentially your blood glucose levels stay elevated and that causes all sorts
stay elevated and that causes all sorts of damage the glycation and things like
of damage the glycation and things like that we've talked about.
that we've talked about. So it's really insulin failure.
So it's really insulin failure. Insulin's failing to do its job.
Insulin's failing to do its job. Well, it depends because you're still
Well, it depends because you're still making the insulin but it's essentially
making the insulin but it's essentially not the insulin receptor isn't
not the insulin receptor isn't responding to that insulin and so it's
responding to that insulin and so it's it's not doing its job. Yes, it's not
it's not doing its job. Yes, it's not doing its job. But it's different from
doing its job. But it's different from type 1 diabetes in in the sense where
type 1 diabetes in in the sense where you're type 1 diabetes, you're actually
you're type 1 diabetes, you're actually not even making the insulin, right? So
not even making the insulin, right? So that's very different. So yeah, insulin
that's very different. So yeah, insulin is not able to do its job. But insulin
is not able to do its job. But insulin resistance and I mean there's there's so
resistance and I mean there's there's so many different diseases that it's been
many different diseases that it's been linked to. But everything I think
linked to. But everything I think everything is so complicated. So I don't
everything is so complicated. So I don't know that everything's due to insulin
know that everything's due to insulin resistance, but it's like one component
resistance, but it's like one component of, you know, something that's
of, you know, something that's accelerating the way you age. I had a a
accelerating the way you age. I had a a light doctor in here the other day, a
light doctor in here the other day, a sunlight doctor the other day and we
sunlight doctor the other day and we spent a lot of time talking to talking
spent a lot of time talking to talking about light and sunlight and one of the
about light and sunlight and one of the things that I've been really fascinated
things that I've been really fascinated by is red light therapy over the last
by is red light therapy over the last couple of months. Do you do have a sort
couple of months. Do you do have a sort of red light therapy routine?
of red light therapy routine? It's interesting that you ask. So red
It's interesting that you ask. So red light therapy in the scientific
light therapy in the scientific literature called photobiomodulation.
literature called photobiomodulation. Um, I know that's a complicated word,
Um, I know that's a complicated word, but you know, there's essentially a
but you know, there's essentially a variety of different wavelengths that
variety of different wavelengths that can be used to stimulate physiological
can be used to stimulate physiological processes like mitochondria inside of
processes like mitochondria inside of your your cells to to do stuff, right? I
your your cells to to do stuff, right? I now am convinced that red light therapy
now am convinced that red light therapy plays a role in helping with skin aging.
plays a role in helping with skin aging. So, I do have a mask. It helps with with
So, I do have a mask. It helps with with skin aging and wrinkles. There have been
skin aging and wrinkles. There have been enough studies now that is pretty
enough studies now that is pretty convincing that it does seem to improve
convincing that it does seem to improve the way skin ages. I do think the
the way skin ages. I do think the important thing here is the parameters
important thing here is the parameters that are done. It's not just wavelength,
that are done. It's not just wavelength, but it's also like the energy, so
but it's also like the energy, so irradiance. And so you have to kind of
irradiance. And so you have to kind of look at all those parameters and make
look at all those parameters and make sure you can replicate that with
sure you can replicate that with whatever product that you're using.
whatever product that you're using. What about infrared saunas?
What about infrared saunas? Infrared saunas or traditional saunas?
Infrared saunas or traditional saunas? The infrared ones.
The infrared ones. Infrared. So infrared saunas are a type
Infrared. So infrared saunas are a type of sauna that is using
of sauna that is using it's using you know essentially infrared
it's using you know essentially infrared radiation right infr infrared
radiation right infr infrared wavelengths to heat up the body. And so
wavelengths to heat up the body. And so they're not very hot. So if you look at
they're not very hot. So if you look at like the ambient temperature in an
like the ambient temperature in an infrared sauna it goes up to like 140
infrared sauna it goes up to like 140 degrees Fahrenheit
degrees Fahrenheit which is very different from a
which is very different from a traditional sauna. So, infrared saunas
traditional sauna. So, infrared saunas don't have all the same benefits as a
don't have all the same benefits as a traditional hot sauna, something that
traditional hot sauna, something that maybe goes up to 175, 180 degrees
maybe goes up to 175, 180 degrees Fahrenheit,
Fahrenheit, unless you are staying in that infrared
unless you are staying in that infrared sauna for like a very long time, perhaps
sauna for like a very long time, perhaps even twice as long as you would or more
even twice as long as you would or more in a traditional sauna. The interesting
in a traditional sauna. The interesting thing about infrared saunas, I would
thing about infrared saunas, I would say, um, so a colleague of mine, a
say, um, so a colleague of mine, a collaborator of mine, Dr. Ashley Mason,
collaborator of mine, Dr. Ashley Mason, she's at UCSF and she's been doing
she's at UCSF and she's been doing what's called the heat bed study and
what's called the heat bed study and it's an infrared sauna that is
it's an infrared sauna that is essentially a head out heat bed. So your
essentially a head out heat bed. So your whole body is in this infrared sort of
whole body is in this infrared sort of bed, but your head is out of it. So your
bed, but your head is out of it. So your head's not in it. And people um she's
head's not in it. And people um she's done she's now done a couple of studies
done she's now done a couple of studies and the most recent study has been done
and the most recent study has been done in people with major depressive
in people with major depressive disorder. So they have depression and
disorder. So they have depression and these people are are doing an infrared
these people are are doing an infrared sauna to a pretty extreme degree. So
sauna to a pretty extreme degree. So she's elevating their core body
she's elevating their core body temperature by around 2°. So they're
temperature by around 2°. So they're essentially getting in a somewhat
essentially getting in a somewhat feverish state. And in order to do that,
feverish state. And in order to do that, I mean, these people are in this
I mean, these people are in this infrared sauna for well over an hour. So
infrared sauna for well over an hour. So not like most people that are doing
not like most people that are doing infrared saunas. You're probably staying
infrared saunas. You're probably staying there for like 20, 30 minutes, right? So
there for like 20, 30 minutes, right? So people are getting very very hot to the
people are getting very very hot to the po to the point where their core body
po to the point where their core body temperature is going up to you know
temperature is going up to you know increasing to um like one one and a half
increasing to um like one one and a half to two degrees right and she's looking
to two degrees right and she's looking at the effects on depression and so what
at the effects on depression and so what she has found is kind of amazing is that
she has found is kind of amazing is that people that are doing this infrared
people that are doing this infrared sauna this heatbed
sauna this heatbed and doing cognitive behavioral therapy
and doing cognitive behavioral therapy CBT
CBT they are experiencing massive
they are experiencing massive anti-depressant effect. So, there's
anti-depressant effect. So, there's something called the Hamilton scale,
something called the Hamilton scale, which is like a battery of tests that
which is like a battery of tests that are done to assess depression.
are done to assess depression. And just to give you like um some some
And just to give you like um some some sort of basis of like if you if there's
sort of basis of like if you if there's something considered clinically
something considered clinically significant, then you have like a
significant, then you have like a three-point change on that scale. Well,
three-point change on that scale. Well, essentially this infrared sauna plus the
essentially this infrared sauna plus the cognitive behavioral therapy improved
cognitive behavioral therapy improved the Hamilton scale, you know, assessment
the Hamilton scale, you know, assessment by 16 points. And these are people that
by 16 points. And these are people that did four or eight rounds of it. So it
did four or eight rounds of it. So it was over the course of either one month
was over the course of either one month or two months. Some people just couldn't
or two months. Some people just couldn't finish it because it is pretty intense.
finish it because it is pretty intense. Like you're you're heating your body up
Like you're you're heating your body up quite a lot and you're sitting in this,
quite a lot and you're sitting in this, you know, infrared sauna for over an
you know, infrared sauna for over an hour and it's it's a it's a pretty
hour and it's it's a it's a pretty intense. But the magnitude of effect on
intense. But the magnitude of effect on the antid-depressant effect was it's
the antid-depressant effect was it's it's stunning. And this kind of all
it's stunning. And this kind of all stems back from her mentor Dr. Dr.
stems back from her mentor Dr. Dr. Charles Raison his research that um was
Charles Raison his research that um was essentially like an infrared sauna. So
essentially like an infrared sauna. So he did something this was you know back
he did something this was you know back in 2016 he did this study where he put
in 2016 he did this study where he put people in this sort of infrared sauna
people in this sort of infrared sauna like thing and it it elevated their core
like thing and it it elevated their core body temperature again by about two two
body temperature again by about two two degrees. There are people with major
degrees. There are people with major depressive disorder or he gave them a
depressive disorder or he gave them a sham control. So it was kind of hot and
sham control. So it was kind of hot and people were thinking they were getting
people were thinking they were getting the treatment but it was actually a
the treatment but it was actually a placebo. Okay. It was enough for them to
placebo. Okay. It was enough for them to think they were getting the treatment,
think they were getting the treatment, but it wasn't ele elevating their core
but it wasn't ele elevating their core body temperature enough. And they did
body temperature enough. And they did one treatment of this, okay? And he
one treatment of this, okay? And he showed that the people that did one
showed that the people that did one treatment of this had an anti-depressant
treatment of this had an anti-depressant effect that lasted six weeks later after
effect that lasted six weeks later after one treatment. Sham control didn't get
one treatment. Sham control didn't get this beautiful study. Um, you know,
this beautiful study. Um, you know, Ashley kind of followed on that study
Ashley kind of followed on that study and showed multiple sessions of it
and showed multiple sessions of it really had an even more robust effect.
really had an even more robust effect. But I say this because I don't want to
But I say this because I don't want to like I don't want to like say infrared
like I don't want to like say infrared saunas aren't great. However, there's a
saunas aren't great. However, there's a lot of benefits that have been related
lot of benefits that have been related to more hot traditional types of saunas,
to more hot traditional types of saunas, finished saunas, for example,
finished saunas, for example, traditional saunas that are that are
traditional saunas that are that are hotter, right? And so you're staying in
hotter, right? And so you're staying in these 175 180°ree sauna for like 20
these 175 180°ree sauna for like 20 minutes. And it's associated with, you
minutes. And it's associated with, you know, lower cardiovascular rated
know, lower cardiovascular rated mortality. So if you you're doing it
mortality. So if you you're doing it four to seven times a week um that's
four to seven times a week um that's associated with a 60 sorry 50% lower
associated with a 60 sorry 50% lower cardiovascular related mortality versus
cardiovascular related mortality versus doing it one time a week or all cause
doing it one time a week or all cause mortality it's associated with 40% lower
mortality it's associated with 40% lower all cause mortality versus doing it one
all cause mortality versus doing it one time a week. So
time a week. So what's going on there?
what's going on there? Right. Exactly what's going on there?
Right. Exactly what's going on there? And so the the the really fascinating
And so the the the really fascinating thing to me about this deliberate heat
thing to me about this deliberate heat exposure from a sauna is that it is sort
exposure from a sauna is that it is sort of mimicking moderate intensity aerobic
of mimicking moderate intensity aerobic exercise. And this has actually been
exercise. And this has actually been shown, it's been compared head-to-head
shown, it's been compared head-to-head to moderate intensity like cycling on a
to moderate intensity like cycling on a stationary bike. A lot of the
stationary bike. A lot of the physiological responses, so your core
physiological responses, so your core body temperature goes up, your heart
body temperature goes up, your heart rate goes up, right? When you're
rate goes up, right? When you're exercising, your heart rate goes up.
exercising, your heart rate goes up. Same thing happens when you're in a hot
Same thing happens when you're in a hot sauna. your heart rate goes up, your
sauna. your heart rate goes up, your cardiac output is increased, right? Your
cardiac output is increased, right? Your blood flow is increasing. All these
blood flow is increasing. All these things are happening and they're very
things are happening and they're very similar. Exercise, heat stress, you're
similar. Exercise, heat stress, you're sweating, right? To cool down your your
sweating, right? To cool down your your body. So, it's a way of sort of
body. So, it's a way of sort of mimicking this moderate intensity
mimicking this moderate intensity exercise that doesn't really happen in
exercise that doesn't really happen in an infrared sauna if you do the same
an infrared sauna if you do the same amount of time as you're doing in a hot
amount of time as you're doing in a hot sauna. Now perhaps if you increase that
sauna. Now perhaps if you increase that time it would happen but there's all
time it would happen but there's all these benefits that are happening with
these benefits that are happening with just doing a deliberate heat exposure
just doing a deliberate heat exposure from a sauna that
from a sauna that seem to not only sort of mimic
seem to not only sort of mimic cardiovascular exercise but they add on
cardiovascular exercise but they add on to it. So, we were talking about
to it. So, we were talking about cardiorespiratory fitness and how
cardiorespiratory fitness and how important that is for longevity, right?
important that is for longevity, right? Where there have been studies that have
Where there have been studies that have looked at people that exercise on a
looked at people that exercise on a stationary bike or they exercise on a
stationary bike or they exercise on a stationary bike and then follow that up
stationary bike and then follow that up with a 15-minute sauna. And it's been
with a 15-minute sauna. And it's been shown that those people that do the
shown that those people that do the 15-minute sauna on top of the exercise
15-minute sauna on top of the exercise have a more a higher improvement in
have a more a higher improvement in their cardiorespiratory fitness. They
their cardiorespiratory fitness. They have more improved um levels of their
have more improved um levels of their their cholesterol and lipids. their
their cholesterol and lipids. their blood pressure improvements were
blood pressure improvements were greater. So there's this additive effect
greater. So there's this additive effect of adding on the deliberate heat
of adding on the deliberate heat exposure with the exercise that isn't
exposure with the exercise that isn't happening with exercise alone. So again,
happening with exercise alone. So again, that's sort of just more evidence of
that's sort of just more evidence of why, you know, doing a deliberate heat
why, you know, doing a deliberate heat exposure like a sauna. In fact, hot
exposure like a sauna. In fact, hot tubs, that's something that's also been
tubs, that's something that's also been shown to improve blood pressure. In
shown to improve blood pressure. In fact, a study just came out a couple of
fact, a study just came out a couple of weeks ago showing that a hot tub is very
weeks ago showing that a hot tub is very beneficial for improving blood pressure,
beneficial for improving blood pressure, for doing all the same things that a
for doing all the same things that a sauna does, which is kind of exciting
sauna does, which is kind of exciting because not everyone has a sauna.
because not everyone has a sauna. I heard that you sometimes rehearse
I heard that you sometimes rehearse important talks and studies in saunas.
important talks and studies in saunas. Yeah. I mean, this started back when I
Yeah. I mean, this started back when I was in graduate school. Um, I used to go
was in graduate school. Um, I used to go to this I lived across the street from a
to this I lived across the street from a YMCA and I used to go to this sauna and
YMCA and I used to go to this sauna and use the sauna before I would go into my
use the sauna before I would go into my lab and do experiments.
lab and do experiments. And there's a couple things I noticed.
And there's a couple things I noticed. One, I was able to handle stress better.
One, I was able to handle stress better. My stress of,
My stress of, you know, failed experiments, mentors
you know, failed experiments, mentors putting all this pressure on me, all
putting all this pressure on me, all that stuff, right? If I went to the
that stuff, right? If I went to the sauna beforehand, I was very much, it's
sauna beforehand, I was very much, it's like I was more resilient to the stress.
like I was more resilient to the stress. And that was when I started to look into
And that was when I started to look into the effects on the brain. And that's
the effects on the brain. And that's where I also am very interested in
where I also am very interested in depression research as well, right?
depression research as well, right? Because you're you're causing like brain
Because you're you're causing like brain resilience. But um once I started to
resilience. But um once I started to realize like this is affecting my mood,
realize like this is affecting my mood, this is affecting my ability to handle
this is affecting my ability to handle stress. I was using the sauna like every
stress. I was using the sauna like every day. I mean I was like religious about
day. I mean I was like religious about it. It was crazy. I mean it was like six
it. It was crazy. I mean it was like six to seven days a week I was going in that
to seven days a week I was going in that sauna.
sauna. And because it was like using it every
And because it was like using it every day, you have to multitask. you only
day, you have to multitask. you only have so much time in the day, right? And
have so much time in the day, right? And so I'd start rehearsing my
so I'd start rehearsing my presentations, like going through them
presentations, like going through them in my mind while I'm sitting in the
in my mind while I'm sitting in the sauna with these other people from the
sauna with these other people from the YMCA who probably think I'm crazy
YMCA who probably think I'm crazy because I'm sitting here like saying
because I'm sitting here like saying things, but I noticed that I was able to
things, but I noticed that I was able to remember things better if I had gone
remember things better if I had gone through them in my head with the heat.
through them in my head with the heat. And it wasn't until many, many years
And it wasn't until many, many years later, I mean, I kept doing that. Like
later, I mean, I kept doing that. Like even sometimes when I travel and I'm
even sometimes when I travel and I'm giving a presentation or a talk, I'll
giving a presentation or a talk, I'll get in the hot bath in my hotel room and
get in the hot bath in my hotel room and I'll just lay in the hot bath and I just
I'll just lay in the hot bath and I just go through my talk in my head or I'll
go through my talk in my head or I'll like look at my notes and like if I
like look at my notes and like if I forget something I'll go through it in
forget something I'll go through it in my head. And it wasn't until several
my head. And it wasn't until several years later that I started looking into
years later that I started looking into the science behind that. Like there's
the science behind that. Like there's something going on here. What is going
something going on here. What is going on? And I found that actually when you
on? And I found that actually when you go into the sauna, so there's a lot of
go into the sauna, so there's a lot of physiological changes that happen.
physiological changes that happen. Growth hormone goes up. Um, in fact, it
Growth hormone goes up. Um, in fact, it depending on the the temperature and
depending on the the temperature and duration, growth hormone can go up
duration, growth hormone can go up anywhere between two-fold to like
anywhere between two-fold to like 16fold, like insane levels of of growth
16fold, like insane levels of of growth hormone. But there's something else that
hormone. But there's something else that goes up called IGF-2,
goes up called IGF-2, and that is associated with improving
and that is associated with improving memory and learning. And so, there have
memory and learning. And so, there have been animal studies that have done this.
been animal studies that have done this. And so, I've kind of connected the dots
And so, I've kind of connected the dots here and go, maybe that's why. I don't
here and go, maybe that's why. I don't really know why. I mean, sometimes just
really know why. I mean, sometimes just like a very strong emotional response
like a very strong emotional response can sort of help you remember something
can sort of help you remember something and you are at the end of the day
and you are at the end of the day causing a very strong stress response
causing a very strong stress response when you're getting in the heat.
when you're getting in the heat. So, I like to use the sauna for a lot of
So, I like to use the sauna for a lot of things. I do I do it depends on the day.
things. I do I do it depends on the day. Sometimes I do it I like to do it before
Sometimes I do it I like to do it before bed. So, I'll do like the hot tub or the
bed. So, I'll do like the hot tub or the sauna. It improves sleep. It improves my
sauna. It improves sleep. It improves my sleep. And that has to do with the
sleep. And that has to do with the growth hormone. It has to do with what
growth hormone. It has to do with what are called somnogenic cytoines. These
are called somnogenic cytoines. These are inflam inflammatory molecules that
are inflam inflammatory molecules that are made that are that cause sleepiness.
are made that are that cause sleepiness. So if you think about when you're when
So if you think about when you're when you're sick and you have, you know,
you're sick and you have, you know, inflammation going on when you're when
inflammation going on when you're when you have an illness, you're very tired,
you have an illness, you're very tired, you're sleepy, you're producing a lot of
you're sleepy, you're producing a lot of what are called somnogenic cytoines.
what are called somnogenic cytoines. These are cytoines that are invol
These are cytoines that are invol inflammation molecules that are involved
inflammation molecules that are involved in making you sleepy. Those are also
in making you sleepy. Those are also produced when you are undergoing
produced when you are undergoing deliberate heat exposure like a hot tub
deliberate heat exposure like a hot tub or and that's been shown uh as well as a
or and that's been shown uh as well as a sauna. So sometimes I like to do the
sauna. So sometimes I like to do the sauna at night like to relax and help
sauna at night like to relax and help help my sleep. Sometimes I like to do it
help my sleep. Sometimes I like to do it after a workout um to extend my, you
after a workout um to extend my, you know, my workout like the study I talked
know, my workout like the study I talked about where you're improving your
about where you're improving your cardiory fitness as well.
cardiory fitness as well. Would you like some tea? My team can
Would you like some tea? My team can make you some tea if you'd like some
make you some tea if you'd like some tea.
tea. I would love some loose leaf tea in a
I would love some loose leaf tea in a metal cup.
metal cup. Why Why don't you want this this tea?
Why Why don't you want this this tea? what you're doing here is is tapping
what you're doing here is is tapping into my sometimes my friends don't want
into my sometimes my friends don't want to talk to me because I'm like the
to talk to me because I'm like the bearer of bad news, you know, where it's
bearer of bad news, you know, where it's like what am I what is Rhonda going to
like what am I what is Rhonda going to tell me now that I shouldn't be doing
tell me now that I shouldn't be doing that I love doing, right? Another
that I love doing, right? Another obsession of mine of late has been
obsession of mine of late has been microlastic exposure. And I know you've
microlastic exposure. And I know you've talked about this on the podcast before
talked about this on the podcast before and it's it's in it's in the news now. A
and it's it's in it's in the news now. A lot of people are sort of familiar with
lot of people are sort of familiar with microplastics, right? breakdown of
microplastics, right? breakdown of plastic particles that are tiny uh
plastic particles that are tiny uh depending on the size and getting into
depending on the size and getting into our circulation. Right.
our circulation. Right. And when you think of microplastics, you
And when you think of microplastics, you think of plastic. When you think of
think of plastic. When you think of plastic, you think, "Oh, that plastic
plastic, you think, "Oh, that plastic water bottle." Yeah. Well, I'll just
water bottle." Yeah. Well, I'll just avoid that plastic water bottle, right?
avoid that plastic water bottle, right? What you don't realize is that
What you don't realize is that everything everything has plastic. So,
everything everything has plastic. So, you have here this to-go coffee cup,
you have here this to-go coffee cup, which I don't know how many coffees I
which I don't know how many coffees I and teas I've had in a to-go coffee cup,
and teas I've had in a to-go coffee cup, but it's hundreds. Hundreds and
but it's hundreds. Hundreds and hundreds. And the thing that's so
hundreds. And the thing that's so disturbing is I learned that, you know,
disturbing is I learned that, you know, these many most all of these plastic I
these many most all of these plastic I mean, sorry, these um paper looking
mean, sorry, these um paper looking coffee cups are actually lined with
coffee cups are actually lined with plastic. They're lined with a plastic
plastic. They're lined with a plastic liner to prevent like the liquid to, you
liner to prevent like the liquid to, you know, leeching into the paper, right?
know, leeching into the paper, right? And that plastic lining when you add
And that plastic lining when you add heat to it, i.e. boiling water for tea
heat to it, i.e. boiling water for tea or hot coffee, it accelerates the
or hot coffee, it accelerates the breakdown of the plastic lining. So,
breakdown of the plastic lining. So, you're drinking microlastic beverages
you're drinking microlastic beverages and also the chemicals associated with
and also the chemicals associated with them. So there was this plastic study
them. So there was this plastic study that was done that showed heating up
that was done that showed heating up plastic essentially causes these these
plastic essentially causes these these toxic you know plastic associated
toxic you know plastic associated chemicals like BPA bisphenol A which is
chemicals like BPA bisphenol A which is an endocrine disruptor. It disrupts
an endocrine disruptor. It disrupts hormones. It sort of mimic mimics
hormones. It sort of mimic mimics estrogen. So you know it's it's
estrogen. So you know it's it's sometimes like called an estrogen
sometimes like called an estrogen mimemetic. It causes that to leech into
mimemetic. It causes that to leech into your beverage 55 times more.
your beverage 55 times more. 55 times
55 times 55fold. Yes.
55fold. Yes. Which is 5,500%.
Which is 5,500%. A whole lot. Yes. And so you're talking
A whole lot. Yes. And so you're talking about drinking, you know, plastic
about drinking, you know, plastic chemicals and microplastics.
chemicals and microplastics. So that was like, okay, well, fine. I'm
So that was like, okay, well, fine. I'm going to bring my mug in anytime I'm
going to bring my mug in anytime I'm traveling and ask them to put my coffee
traveling and ask them to put my coffee in that. So I I see so many people with
in that. So I I see so many people with these to- go, you know, paper cups and
these to- go, you know, paper cups and and and they're drinking coffee in it.
and and they're drinking coffee in it. And it's like it's so hard for me
And it's like it's so hard for me because I realize it's like this plastic
because I realize it's like this plastic soup that you're drinking. Now you have
soup that you're drinking. Now you have a tea bag on top of that and that is
a tea bag on top of that and that is something that there have been over the
something that there have been over the course of the last seven or eight years
course of the last seven or eight years there have been studies that have come
there have been studies that have come out that these these tea bags are
out that these these tea bags are composed of made of you know there's
composed of made of you know there's plastic polymers in them and so there's
plastic polymers in them and so there's thousands of microplastics that are
thousands of microplastics that are released in every milliliter of tea from
released in every milliliter of tea from these tea bags and there's a variety of
these tea bags and there's a variety of different tea bags essentially all of
different tea bags essentially all of them release microplastics the ones
them release microplastics the ones that's that that look like they won't
that's that that look like they won't release them. So now, while I used to
release them. So now, while I used to drink a lot of tea when I'm on the go, I
drink a lot of tea when I'm on the go, I I bring my own with me. I bring my own
I bring my own with me. I bring my own looseleaf tea with a little, you know,
looseleaf tea with a little, you know, one of those little steepers that can
one of those little steepers that can steep the tea. And I use that because
steep the tea. And I use that because mostly because the heat, you know, it's
mostly because the heat, you know, it's just it's accelerating that breakdown.
just it's accelerating that breakdown. Yes, I'll drink plast I mean, I'll drink
Yes, I'll drink plast I mean, I'll drink water out of a plastic bottle sometimes
water out of a plastic bottle sometimes when I'm traveling because there's no
when I'm traveling because there's no other options. And actually, there was a
other options. And actually, there was a study that just came out. I'm sure you
study that just came out. I'm sure you saw it. Did you see the study that
saw it. Did you see the study that showed glass had higher levels? So,
showed glass had higher levels? So, water that was in glass had higher
water that was in glass had higher levels of microlastic than water that
levels of microlastic than water that was in plastic containers. This was a
was in plastic containers. This was a study that came out of France.
study that came out of France. Oh, come on.
Oh, come on. You didn't see this study?
You didn't see this study? No.
No. Oh my gosh. This is like everywhere.
Oh my gosh. This is like everywhere. Everywhere. I mean, it came out, I don't
Everywhere. I mean, it came out, I don't know, in the last two weeks or so. Um,
know, in the last two weeks or so. Um, the study came out of France and it was
the study came out of France and it was essentially showing that glass bottles
essentially showing that glass bottles had more microplastics in the liquid
had more microplastics in the liquid that they contained than plastic bottles
that they contained than plastic bottles which contain liquid. And you might go,
which contain liquid. And you might go, "What? That makes no sense, right? I
"What? That makes no sense, right? I mean, why would the glass have plastic
mean, why would the glass have plastic particles at a higher level than a
particles at a higher level than a plastic bottle?"
plastic bottle?" Well, it turns out that the paint on top
Well, it turns out that the paint on top of the lid of the glass bottle
of the lid of the glass bottle has is it has plastic polymers in it.
has is it has plastic polymers in it. And so the paint is flaking off and
And so the paint is flaking off and getting into the water that is contained
getting into the water that is contained in the glass bottle. There is I think a
in the glass bottle. There is I think a silver lining here and that is well okay
silver lining here and that is well okay there might be more microplastics in the
there might be more microplastics in the beverages that are in the glass bottle
beverages that are in the glass bottle compared to the plastic bottle but the
compared to the plastic bottle but the size matters. So it was shown that the
size matters. So it was shown that the size is larger in the glass bottles
size is larger in the glass bottles compared to the plastic bottles and
compared to the plastic bottles and the size of the plastic
the size of the plastic the the size of the microplastic. And
the the size of the microplastic. And there's a reason why this is important
there's a reason why this is important because microlastics and nanoplastics as
because microlastics and nanoplastics as you get smaller in size they get
you get smaller in size they get smaller. They're called nanoplastics.
smaller. They're called nanoplastics. Those are the most dangerous because it
Those are the most dangerous because it can be more easily absorbed in the gut
can be more easily absorbed in the gut and get into the circulation. If it gets
and get into the circulation. If it gets into circulation, it can more easily
into circulation, it can more easily bypass the bloodb brain barrier and get
bypass the bloodb brain barrier and get into the brain. Size matters and so the
into the brain. Size matters and so the larger size flaking off from the paint
larger size flaking off from the paint is less likely to be absorbed by the gut
is less likely to be absorbed by the gut and to get into circulation. Now, this
and to get into circulation. Now, this has to be shown. I'm sure that's going
has to be shown. I'm sure that's going to this study is going to be done next.
to this study is going to be done next. Like, this is going to be the next
Like, this is going to be the next study. It hasn't been shown yet.
study. It hasn't been shown yet. I've heard you talk about fiber as well
I've heard you talk about fiber as well playing a role in getting microplastics
playing a role in getting microplastics out of our body.
out of our body. Okay. So, yes. So, fiber is interesting.
Okay. So, yes. So, fiber is interesting. This all comes from animal studies. And
This all comes from animal studies. And fiber seems to play a role in the
fiber seems to play a role in the absorption of microplastics and
absorption of microplastics and nanoplastics in your gut cells. And
nanoplastics in your gut cells. And that's really important because if you
that's really important because if you don't absorb them, it's excreted through
don't absorb them, it's excreted through feces, right? And it's been shown we
feces, right? And it's been shown we only absorb about 1 to 2% of these
only absorb about 1 to 2% of these microplastics that we're ingesting.
microplastics that we're ingesting. Fiber, what it does is two things. One,
Fiber, what it does is two things. One, it moves the microplastics through the
it moves the microplastics through the intestines quicker, right? Which is what
intestines quicker, right? Which is what fiber does. But I think the more
fiber does. But I think the more important thing is the type of fiber. So
important thing is the type of fiber. So you want this fermentable type of fiber,
you want this fermentable type of fiber, soluble fiber. That's the kind of fiber
soluble fiber. That's the kind of fiber that's really good for your gut
that's really good for your gut microbiome. And what that does is it's
microbiome. And what that does is it's essentially creating this viscous
essentially creating this viscous gel-like sort of gel-like, you know,
gel-like sort of gel-like, you know, mucousy stuff inside of your gut that
mucousy stuff inside of your gut that encapsulates the microplastic so that it
encapsulates the microplastic so that it can't be absorbed by the gut, you know,
can't be absorbed by the gut, you know, what are called the gut epithelial
what are called the gut epithelial cells. And so if you're essentially not
cells. And so if you're essentially not able to absorb those microplastics, then
able to absorb those microplastics, then they're not getting into circulation.
they're not getting into circulation. And that's like the biggest thing that
And that's like the biggest thing that you can do, right? Is is not get them
you can do, right? Is is not get them into circulation. Now, this is all based
into circulation. Now, this is all based on animal evidence. I did speak with
on animal evidence. I did speak with with a microplastics researcher at a
with a microplastics researcher at a Harvard, Dr. um Carrie Nadal, and she
Harvard, Dr. um Carrie Nadal, and she wasn't even aware of this, and now she's
wasn't even aware of this, and now she's like on it. So, I'm hoping that there'll
like on it. So, I'm hoping that there'll be some human human evidence coming soon
be some human human evidence coming soon looking at whether or not microplastics,
looking at whether or not microplastics, if you're eating fiber, if that can
if you're eating fiber, if that can basically blunt the absorption of the
basically blunt the absorption of the microplastics into the system. I think
microplastics into the system. I think people that are eating more fiber in
people that are eating more fiber in their diet probably are getting less of
their diet probably are getting less of that microplastics into their into their
that microplastics into their into their system, but that hasn't been shown in
system, but that hasn't been shown in humans. It's only been shown in animals.
humans. It's only been shown in animals. I'm guessing you don't eat canned soup
I'm guessing you don't eat canned soup either.
either. Yes. Yeah. So the canned soup is
Yes. Yeah. So the canned soup is interesting. You know, again,
interesting. You know, again, aluminum cans are lined with this
aluminum cans are lined with this plastic, you know, lining and that
plastic, you know, lining and that prevents the the sort of breakdown of
prevents the the sort of breakdown of the of the the aluminum, right, the
the of the the aluminum, right, the metal.
metal. Uh unfortunately it also causes these
Uh unfortunately it also causes these chemicals like BPA that are in the
chemicals like BPA that are in the plastic lining to leech into the in this
plastic lining to leech into the in this case the soup or the beverage or the
case the soup or the beverage or the liquid that they're contained in. Right?
liquid that they're contained in. Right? There was this study that showed I think
There was this study that showed I think it was was it a th00and% increase of BPA
it was was it a th00and% increase of BPA after drinking a soup out of a can
after drinking a soup out of a can versus a soup out of a glass. A
versus a soup out of a glass. A thousand% increase in bisphenol A
thousand% increase in bisphenol A levels. I mean that is
levels. I mean that is bisphenol A levels being
bisphenol A levels being BPA
BPA which is the bad thing in microplastics.
which is the bad thing in microplastics. It's the it's one of the bad chemicals
It's the it's one of the bad chemicals in plastics that is an endocrine
in plastics that is an endocrine disruptor. So it's disrupting hormones
disruptor. So it's disrupting hormones and you know that can play a role in a
and you know that can play a role in a lot of different things um depending on
lot of different things um depending on what we're looking at. So it's hugely
what we're looking at. So it's hugely important for obviously like
important for obviously like neurodedevelopment in children. So like
neurodedevelopment in children. So like pregnant women but even like you know
pregnant women but even like you know disrupting disrupting hormones in
disrupting disrupting hormones in general like mimicking estrogen I mean
general like mimicking estrogen I mean that's not something that guys want to
that's not something that guys want to do either right so it does it is
do either right so it does it is something to be aware of but the thing
something to be aware of but the thing is is that you know BPA it was this
is is that you know BPA it was this beautiful marketing strategy that came
beautiful marketing strategy that came out I don't know how many years ago but
out I don't know how many years ago but all this BPA was replaced with something
all this BPA was replaced with something else that wasn't BPA it was BPS and so
else that wasn't BPA it was BPS and so now everything is marketed as BPA free
now everything is marketed as BPA free And people think that is like, oh, oh,
And people think that is like, oh, oh, it's not dangerous. It's BPA free.
it's not dangerous. It's BPA free. However, what it's replaced with is
However, what it's replaced with is doing the same thing as BPA, if not
doing the same thing as BPA, if not worse. And that's been now shown in
worse. And that's been now shown in multiple studies. So, it's also an
multiple studies. So, it's also an endocrine disruptor. It's doing the same
endocrine disruptor. It's doing the same thing. And yet, people think, you know,
thing. And yet, people think, you know, that it's it's safe because it's BPA
that it's it's safe because it's BPA free.
free. Did you hear about this study of people
Did you hear about this study of people that live close to a golf course?
that live close to a golf course? Yes.
Yes. Yeah. There's a study that came out, I
Yeah. There's a study that came out, I don't know how, it was very recent,
don't know how, it was very recent, maybe a month
maybe a month 2025.
2025. Yeah. So maybe I think it was a couple
Yeah. So maybe I think it was a couple months ago, and the study showed that
months ago, and the study showed that people that lived near within a mile or
people that lived near within a mile or so of golf courses had a much higher
so of golf courses had a much higher incidence of Parkinson's disease. Right.
incidence of Parkinson's disease. Right. It says 126% higher risk,
It says 126% higher risk, right? Okay. So then why is that? Right.
right? Okay. So then why is that? Right. Okay. And this is where I want to get
Okay. And this is where I want to get into the the pesticides issue because
into the the pesticides issue because it's it's known like any scientist
it's it's known like any scientist that's done research in neurogenerative
that's done research in neurogenerative disease. It's one of the ways that you
disease. It's one of the ways that you induce Parkinson's disease in animals is
induce Parkinson's disease in animals is you give them insect. You give them
you give them insect. You give them essentially a pesticide. So rotinone
essentially a pesticide. So rotinone being one, paraquat. And what that does
being one, paraquat. And what that does is a mitochondrial toxin. So it's it's
is a mitochondrial toxin. So it's it's basically causing the mitochondria to
basically causing the mitochondria to die and then essentially when the
die and then essentially when the mitochondrias are are dying or
mitochondrias are are dying or apoptosing you know the cell under goes
apoptosing you know the cell under goes apoptosis and dying. So you're
apoptosis and dying. So you're essentially you can induce Parkinson's
essentially you can induce Parkinson's disease in mice by giving them these
disease in mice by giving them these types of essentially you know these
types of essentially you know these types of insecttoides and herbicides. So
types of insecttoides and herbicides. So it's well known that that can cause you
it's well known that that can cause you know Parkinson's disease. It's important
know Parkinson's disease. It's important to know that it's mostly the ingestion
to know that it's mostly the ingestion of it and not the inhalation of it. And
of it and not the inhalation of it. And that was a big concern because it gets
that was a big concern because it gets into the water source and that's what's
into the water source and that's what's thought to be the underlying cause.
thought to be the underlying cause. People that are living close to a golf
People that are living close to a golf course, it's getting into it's
course, it's getting into it's contaminating the water source
contaminating the water source essentially. And so people are are
essentially. And so people are are drinking these these you know this
drinking these these you know this basically these pesticides, insecticides
basically these pesticides, insecticides and herbicides, right? So, um, a water
and herbicides, right? So, um, a water filter like a reverse osmosis, you know,
filter like a reverse osmosis, you know, water filter, something like that that
water filter, something like that that can filter out some of these molecules,
can filter out some of these molecules, hugely important. And I think that's the
hugely important. And I think that's the solution to people that are living near
solution to people that are living near a golf course or people that are living
a golf course or people that are living near any to sort of agricultural place
near any to sort of agricultural place where they're using a high volume of
where they're using a high volume of these types of, you know, herbicides.
these types of, you know, herbicides. What is the most important thing we
What is the most important thing we haven't talked about that we should have
haven't talked about that we should have talked about? run.
talked about? run. I think we talked a little bit about
I think we talked a little bit about magnesium, but I don't know that we
magnesium, but I don't know that we talked enough about magnesium and it is
talked enough about magnesium and it is important because it's something that is
important because it's something that is required for
required for gosh over 300 different enzymes in your
gosh over 300 different enzymes in your body need it to function properly. So,
body need it to function properly. So, it's what's called a co-actor and I
it's what's called a co-actor and I mentioned DNA repair enzymes. So,
mentioned DNA repair enzymes. So, there's it's also used to make energy.
there's it's also used to make energy. So, you need magnesium to make energy
So, you need magnesium to make energy and to use energy. You need magnesium to
and to use energy. You need magnesium to repair damage that's happening all the
repair damage that's happening all the time. And close to 50% of the population
time. And close to 50% of the population in the United States does not have
in the United States does not have adequate levels of magnesium because
adequate levels of magnesium because they're not eating the foods that they
they're not eating the foods that they need to to get the magnesium. Dark leafy
need to to get the magnesium. Dark leafy greens. I mentioned it's at the center
greens. I mentioned it's at the center of a chlorophyll molecule. There have
of a chlorophyll molecule. There have been studies that have shown that for
been studies that have shown that for every 100 millgram decrease in magnesium
every 100 millgram decrease in magnesium intake, there's a 24% increase in
intake, there's a 24% increase in pancreatic cancer incidents and that's
pancreatic cancer incidents and that's in a dose dependent manner. So you keep
in a dose dependent manner. So you keep going up and up. I think that people
going up and up. I think that people don't realize that they're not getting
don't realize that they're not getting enough magnesium. Magnesium is required
enough magnesium. Magnesium is required to make to turn vitamin D3 into the
to make to turn vitamin D3 into the steroid hormone. So some people have a
steroid hormone. So some people have a magnesium, you know, insufficient amount
magnesium, you know, insufficient amount of magnesium they're taking in and
of magnesium they're taking in and they're actually not able to make enough
they're actually not able to make enough vitamin D into that steroid hormone.
vitamin D into that steroid hormone. Again, magnesium is controlling 300
Again, magnesium is controlling 300 enzymes. Some of those enzymes are
enzymes. Some of those enzymes are actually the ones that are converting
actually the ones that are converting vitamin D3 into the steroid hormone. So
vitamin D3 into the steroid hormone. So magnesium is hugely important. It's
magnesium is hugely important. It's something that can be easily corrected.
something that can be easily corrected. The deficiency can be easily corrected
The deficiency can be easily corrected by taking a supplement but also eating
by taking a supplement but also eating more leafy greens which is the best
more leafy greens which is the best source of magnesium. The question is
source of magnesium. The question is what do supplements do? What kind of
what do supplements do? What kind of supplement do you take? How much should
supplement do you take? How much should you take? All these things are I think
you take? All these things are I think questions that people are interested in.
questions that people are interested in. So I've got some magnesium here. Is um
So I've got some magnesium here. Is um is taking magnesium going to have a
is taking magnesium going to have a positive role then on my my speed of
positive role then on my my speed of aging?
aging? I do think so. I think so. Yes. We
I do think so. I think so. Yes. We talked about cancer incidents, right?
talked about cancer incidents, right? Magnesium. So, I think magnesium is one
Magnesium. So, I think magnesium is one of those sort of minerals that is c when
of those sort of minerals that is c when you when you don't have enough of it,
you when you don't have enough of it, it's causing that insidious damage over
it's causing that insidious damage over time that accumulates and then rears its
time that accumulates and then rears its ugly head, you know, in the fifth,
ugly head, you know, in the fifth, sixth, seventh decade of life. And that
sixth, seventh decade of life. And that ugly head happens to be cancer. So I do
ugly head happens to be cancer. So I do think that if you are able to avoid
think that if you are able to avoid magnesium deficiency and insufficiency,
magnesium deficiency and insufficiency, then you are going to be able to
then you are going to be able to basically make sure there's enough
basically make sure there's enough magnesium around for everything in your
magnesium around for everything in your body to use it with with what it needs
body to use it with with what it needs it for. So um
it for. So um and I've heard you say that 50% of
and I've heard you say that 50% of people are deficient in the United
people are deficient in the United States in magnesium,
States in magnesium, right? Close to 50%. And not to mention,
right? Close to 50%. And not to mention, you just talked about, you know,
you just talked about, you know, electrolytes. athletes, they actually
electrolytes. athletes, they actually require between 10 to 20% more magnesium
require between 10 to 20% more magnesium than the general population because of
than the general population because of their magnes their magnesium losses are
their magnes their magnesium losses are so great and so they can be even more
so great and so they can be even more deficient. Magnesium is needed for red
deficient. Magnesium is needed for red blood cells and so you know people can
blood cells and so you know people can have lower energy as well. So,
have lower energy as well. So, magnesium, magnesium is so important for
magnesium, magnesium is so important for so many different things. And you know,
so many different things. And you know, like I said, I think there I do think
like I said, I think there I do think there's a trade-off here where whatever
there's a trade-off here where whatever magnesium you are getting from your
magnesium you are getting from your diet, if you're not getting enough of
diet, if you're not getting enough of it, it's probably going to make energy
it, it's probably going to make energy instead of being used to repair damage
instead of being used to repair damage because you need to make energy every
because you need to make energy every day, right? That's the most important
day, right? That's the most important thing. If you don't make energy, you
thing. If you don't make energy, you die. Like, you can't survive. So
die. Like, you can't survive. So whatever magnesium your body is getting,
whatever magnesium your body is getting, it's not going to that process of
it's not going to that process of repairing DNA, which doesn't really
repairing DNA, which doesn't really matter until you're in your, you know,
matter until you're in your, you know, fifth, sixth, seventh decade of life and
fifth, sixth, seventh decade of life and cancer, you know, risk increases, right?
cancer, you know, risk increases, right? And so there's this idea, this put out
And so there's this idea, this put out by my mentor Dr. Bruce Ames, called
by my mentor Dr. Bruce Ames, called triage theory. And he's shown some
triage theory. And he's shown some evidence of it. Magnesium is one of them
evidence of it. Magnesium is one of them where magnesium seems to be triaged to
where magnesium seems to be triaged to energy production at the expense of
energy production at the expense of repairing your DNA.
repairing your DNA. What does that mean? It means that if
What does that mean? It means that if you're not getting enough magnesium
you're not getting enough magnesium through your dietary intake and you're
through your dietary intake and you're not supplementing with it, whatever
not supplementing with it, whatever magnesium that you're getting, there's
magnesium that you're getting, there's 300 different enzymes that need it to do
300 different enzymes that need it to do their function that your body is finding
their function that your body is finding a way to triage it to the most essential
a way to triage it to the most essential functions that are going to basically
functions that are going to basically help with short-term survival.
help with short-term survival. Triage means it's basically allocating
Triage means it's basically allocating Yes. It's allocating it to the the
Yes. It's allocating it to the the processes inside your body that are
processes inside your body that are essential for short-term survival right
essential for short-term survival right now.
now. Long-term health, diseases of aging,
Long-term health, diseases of aging, like cancer, that doesn't matter as
like cancer, that doesn't matter as much, right?
much, right? If you're deficient,
If you're deficient, yeah, your body your body basically
yeah, your body your body basically says, "No, I don't I'm not going to give
says, "No, I don't I'm not going to give whatever precious magnesium I have right
whatever precious magnesium I have right now to prevent cancer because I need to
now to prevent cancer because I need to live long enough to reproduce and pass
live long enough to reproduce and pass on my genes." And cancer doesn't happen
on my genes." And cancer doesn't happen until I'm well well past that. Right? So
until I'm well well past that. Right? So this idea, it's called the triage theory
this idea, it's called the triage theory and he's he it's been shown for um
and he's he it's been shown for um several different micronutrients.
several different micronutrients. Another one is vitamin K. So vitamin K
Another one is vitamin K. So vitamin K is really high in dark leafy greens.
is really high in dark leafy greens. Well, what Bruce Bruce um has shown is
Well, what Bruce Bruce um has shown is that vitamin K is important for a couple
that vitamin K is important for a couple of things. One, it's important for blood
of things. One, it's important for blood coagulation, blood clotting, and that
coagulation, blood clotting, and that all happens in the liver. You activate
all happens in the liver. You activate proteins in the liver for blood
proteins in the liver for blood clotting. If you don't have vitamin K,
clotting. If you don't have vitamin K, you can't do that, right? It's it's one
you can't do that, right? It's it's one of the reasons why when a baby's first
of the reasons why when a baby's first born, they give it a vitamin K shot so
born, they give it a vitamin K shot so that they have blood coagulation.
that they have blood coagulation. On your YouTube channel, you made a
On your YouTube channel, you made a video about magnesium, which I recommend
video about magnesium, which I recommend everybody goes and watches if you are
everybody goes and watches if you are interested in going deeper on this
interested in going deeper on this subject. And um on your YouTube, I found
subject. And um on your YouTube, I found a stat that said for every 100 milligram
a stat that said for every 100 milligram drop in magnesium intake is linked to a
drop in magnesium intake is linked to a 24% higher risk of pancreatic cancer.
24% higher risk of pancreatic cancer. Yes.
Yes. Which is shocking. It is. And again, it
Which is shocking. It is. And again, it comes down to the DNA repair enzymes
comes down to the DNA repair enzymes that are that require magnesium to be
that are that require magnesium to be activated. And if over a lifetime,
activated. And if over a lifetime, you're part of that 50% of the
you're part of that 50% of the population in the United States that
population in the United States that doesn't get enough magnesium, then
doesn't get enough magnesium, then you're talking about not being able to
you're talking about not being able to repair damage to your DNA over decades.
repair damage to your DNA over decades. And essentially what that means is, you
And essentially what that means is, you know, at some point damage happens to
know, at some point damage happens to your DNA in the right part of a gene
your DNA in the right part of a gene that is what's called encogenic. it's
that is what's called encogenic. it's cancer-causing and so eventually it's
cancer-causing and so eventually it's going to cause cancer if you're not able
going to cause cancer if you're not able to repair that damage, right? And so
to repair that damage, right? And so getting enough magnesium is important to
getting enough magnesium is important to make sure you're repairing that damage.
make sure you're repairing that damage. And um it's not only important for
And um it's not only important for cancer, but also all cause mortality. So
cancer, but also all cause mortality. So there's also studies showing that people
there's also studies showing that people with the highest magnesium levels have a
with the highest magnesium levels have a 40% lower all-c cause mortality than
40% lower all-c cause mortality than people with the lowest magnesium levels.
people with the lowest magnesium levels. and they have a 50% lower cancer related
and they have a 50% lower cancer related mortality compared to people with the
mortality compared to people with the lowest levels. So again, cancer is still
lowest levels. So again, cancer is still in there and we're seeing that magnesium
in there and we're seeing that magnesium intake is very important with respect to
intake is very important with respect to cancer. And that is something that, you
cancer. And that is something that, you know, people don't realize when they're
know, people don't realize when they're not getting enough of magnesium in their
not getting enough of magnesium in their diet, they're not eating their leafy
diet, they're not eating their leafy greens or they're not taking a
greens or they're not taking a supplement that they're sort of
supplement that they're sort of affecting their long-term risk of
affecting their long-term risk of cancer. So people with high magnesium
cancer. So people with high magnesium levels have a 50% lower risk of cancer
levels have a 50% lower risk of cancer death than those with low levels,
death than those with low levels, right?
right? H and is that you you obviously can't do
H and is that you you obviously can't do like a double blind placebo control test
like a double blind placebo control test on that. So they're they're really
on that. So they're they're really establishing causation. So it could be
establishing causation. So it could be other things like it could be the other
other things like it could be the other dietary factors that go into go into
dietary factors that go into go into that. Maybe if we think about causation,
that. Maybe if we think about causation, people that eat a lot of hamburgers
people that eat a lot of hamburgers don't have a lot of like leafy greens.
don't have a lot of like leafy greens. Exactly. You nailed it. Um, essentially,
Exactly. You nailed it. Um, essentially, magnesium is packaged in these foods
magnesium is packaged in these foods that are beneficial like dark leafy
that are beneficial like dark leafy greens. And there's so many other
greens. And there's so many other benefits along with them that you can't
benefits along with them that you can't establish causation and say, "Aha, it's
establish causation and say, "Aha, it's just the magnesium." I would argue it's
just the magnesium." I would argue it's probably not just the magnesium, but
probably not just the magnesium, but magnesium does play an important role.
magnesium does play an important role. It's just you can't of course pinpoint
It's just you can't of course pinpoint it to just magnesium because you're
it to just magnesium because you're right there are many other important
right there are many other important healthy things in these micronutri in
healthy things in these micronutri in these plants that are beneficial for
these plants that are beneficial for health as well.
health as well. There was a really random thing that I
There was a really random thing that I think parents might appreciate us
think parents might appreciate us talking about which was when I was
talking about which was when I was looking at your work you mentioned this
looking at your work you mentioned this chemical that if parents take while
chemical that if parents take while their baby is inside them mothers take
their baby is inside them mothers take the baby is smarter.
the baby is smarter. Yes. Choline.
Yes. Choline. Choline.
Choline. Choline. Yeah, choline is an essential
Choline. Yeah, choline is an essential nutrient that is it's really
nutrient that is it's really concentrated in egg yolk. That's a
concentrated in egg yolk. That's a really good source of choline, but it's
really good source of choline, but it's important for
important for it's a precursor for the
it's a precursor for the neurotransmitter acetylcholine.
neurotransmitter acetylcholine. It's also important for producing all
It's also important for producing all these epigenetic changes called
these epigenetic changes called methylation that regulates the way our
methylation that regulates the way our genes are expressed. And it's also um
genes are expressed. And it's also um very important for our cells like the
very important for our cells like the membranes of our cells and it it makes
membranes of our cells and it it makes something called phosphotidyl choline.
something called phosphotidyl choline. It's doing so many things is the point
It's doing so many things is the point I'm getting to. I don't want to get into
I'm getting to. I don't want to get into all this nitty-gritty because people can
all this nitty-gritty because people can get lost in that. But the point is that
get lost in that. But the point is that peg women that were given like the RDA
peg women that were given like the RDA close to the RDA it was like 500.
close to the RDA it was like 500. What's the RDA? the recommended daily
What's the RDA? the recommended daily allowance. Actually, I think in this
allowance. Actually, I think in this case it was the DRRI, the the dietary
case it was the DRRI, the the dietary recommended intake. So, pregnant women
recommended intake. So, pregnant women were were given close to what is the
were were given close to what is the dietary recommended intake. So, they
dietary recommended intake. So, they were given 480 milligrams a day of
were given 480 milligrams a day of choline or they were given almost double
choline or they were given almost double that. So, they were given 930
that. So, they were given 930 milligrams a day. And I don't remember
milligrams a day. And I don't remember what trimester uh they started in but
what trimester uh they started in but they were given this you know throughout
they were given this you know throughout a certain time frame and during
a certain time frame and during pregnancy and then a variety of
pregnancy and then a variety of cognitive tests were done after the
cognitive tests were done after the child was born. And the children that
child was born. And the children that were given the mothers that had children
were given the mothers that had children that were given the really high choline
that were given the really high choline intake the 930 milligrams scored better
intake the 930 milligrams scored better on all these IQ tests. And so
on all these IQ tests. And so essentially their children were smarter
essentially their children were smarter if they if they if their mother had
if they if they if their mother had taken choline throughout pregnancy. And
taken choline throughout pregnancy. And I think this is really interesting
I think this is really interesting because it's the one easy thing that
because it's the one easy thing that people can do. They can supplement with
people can do. They can supplement with choline andor they can eat a lot of eggs
choline andor they can eat a lot of eggs with egg yolk which is something I I did
with egg yolk which is something I I did both during pregnancy. I was eating
both during pregnancy. I was eating probably like six eggs a day and
probably like six eggs a day and supplementing with choline. So I was
supplementing with choline. So I was doing both. And um every mo every mother
doing both. And um every mo every mother wants to think or every parent wants to
wants to think or every parent wants to think that their child is smart. But
think that their child is smart. But I bet your child is smart.
I bet your child is smart. He's a smart cookie. Yeah.
He's a smart cookie. Yeah. How old is he now? Almost 10.
How old is he now? Almost 10. Seven.
Seven. Seven. Okay. We have a closing tradition
Seven. Okay. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest
on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not
leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for. And
knowing who they're leaving it for. And the question left for you.
the question left for you. Interesting.
Interesting. If you could go back and change one
If you could go back and change one thing about your life, what would it be?
thing about your life, what would it be? And you cannot say nothing. That's what
And you cannot say nothing. That's what it says.
it says. I would say the one thing that I would
I would say the one thing that I would change, I'm 47 years old, just turned 47
change, I'm 47 years old, just turned 47 last month. I have one child.
last month. I have one child. And I think if I could go back in time,
And I think if I could go back in time, I would change my decision to only have
I would change my decision to only have one child and I would have another
one child and I would have another child.
Because I love being a mother. I love the joy
I love being a mother. I love the joy that children bring
that children bring to your life is it's unexplainable until
to your life is it's unexplainable until you experience it. Everything about it,
you experience it. Everything about it, helping shape them, learning with them,
helping shape them, learning with them, going through hard times and
going through hard times and experiences, but also experiencing the
experiences, but also experiencing the joys.
joys. I regret sort of you know I had children
I regret sort of you know I had children later in life because I was really
later in life because I was really pursuing my career and
pursuing my career and it is definitely challenging being an
it is definitely challenging being an entrepreneur that's a mother. I made a
entrepreneur that's a mother. I made a decision that I was going to have one
decision that I was going to have one child because I wouldn't be able to do
child because I wouldn't be able to do as much of what I love doing outside of
as much of what I love doing outside of being a mother if I had more than one
being a mother if I had more than one child. And now I realize that say that
child. And now I realize that say that when I'm older and closer to dying,
when I'm older and closer to dying, I know now that
I know now that I'm not going to think about doing one
I'm not going to think about doing one more podcast when I'm on my deathbed.
more podcast when I'm on my deathbed. I'm going to think about all the
I'm going to think about all the experiences I've had with my family. And
experiences I've had with my family. And I do I do have a pretty balanced I would
I do I do have a pretty balanced I would say balanced personal life and family
say balanced personal life and family life with my career.
life with my career. I don't know that it was the easiest
I don't know that it was the easiest decision to make where I had to sort of
decision to make where I had to sort of give up some of my intellectual pursuit,
give up some of my intellectual pursuit, some of my entrepreneurial my
some of my entrepreneurial my productivity essentially.
productivity essentially. I had to give some of that up to to to
I had to give some of that up to to to be the best mother that I wanted to be
be the best mother that I wanted to be to be present with my husband and my my
to be present with my husband and my my son and enjoy everything that I enjoy
son and enjoy everything that I enjoy because that takes time. and that time
because that takes time. and that time that I'm with them, I am not doing my
that I'm with them, I am not doing my podcasting or my research or any of
podcasting or my research or any of that, right? And I'm happy with that
that, right? And I'm happy with that decision. And in fact, I would even give
decision. And in fact, I would even give up more of it for another child. Um, and
up more of it for another child. Um, and that's a very personal thing that I'm
that's a very personal thing that I'm discussing. So hopefully
discussing. So hopefully I'll be okay with it.
I'll be okay with it. It's not the first time I've heard this.
It's not the first time I've heard this. Really?
Really? Yeah. No. Yeah, it's not the first time.
Yeah. No. Yeah, it's not the first time. I I hear this a lot which is fascinating
I I hear this a lot which is fascinating to me from from high performance women.
to me from from high performance women. It is it's you know
It is it's you know I say that it's very hard to be a very
I say that it's very hard to be a very high performing female and mother at the
high performing female and mother at the same time. Uh you either have to
same time. Uh you either have to sacrifice being present with your family
sacrifice being present with your family or your health because you don't sleep
or your health because you don't sleep as much. uate, you know, you're you're
as much. uate, you know, you're you're basically
basically not going to be getting as much sleep
not going to be getting as much sleep because you're going to be working
because you're going to be working rather than sleeping during some of the
rather than sleeping during some of the those hours, right? So, I do I do think
those hours, right? So, I do I do think that it is very challenging and I'm not
that it is very challenging and I'm not saying that um there aren't really high
saying that um there aren't really high performing mothers out there, but it is
performing mothers out there, but it is it is a very difficult thing to do.
it is a very difficult thing to do. When you say you you made the choice to
When you say you you made the choice to have one, was that an intentional
have one, was that an intentional choice? I you and your partner did
choice? I you and your partner did family planning and said we want one or
family planning and said we want one or was it because you said your child is
was it because you said your child is seven you said you're 47 so at 40
seven you said you're 47 so at 40 obviously it's it's becomes a little bit
obviously it's it's becomes a little bit more tricky than it than it does when
more tricky than it than it does when your 30s to conceive
your 30s to conceive right so I think what in in my case um I
right so I think what in in my case um I I got pregnant when I was 38 for the
I got pregnant when I was 38 for the first time and I gave birth when I was
first time and I gave birth when I was 39
39 so I was pretty late already
so I was pretty late already and at that point
and at that point I didn't you know as I It was I was so
I didn't you know as I It was I was so overwhelmed and my productivity had gone
overwhelmed and my productivity had gone down so much just from that event
down so much just from that event that I was worried that I wouldn't be
that I was worried that I wouldn't be able to keep it up if I did another one
able to keep it up if I did another one right away, which I had to do because I
right away, which I had to do because I had waited so long. Now, why did I wait
had waited so long. Now, why did I wait so long? I was pursuing my career, you
so long? I was pursuing my career, you know? I mean, and I would argue now that
know? I mean, and I would argue now that I could have had a kid in graduate
I could have had a kid in graduate school. I could have had a child as a
school. I could have had a child as a post-doal fellow, but again, it's one of
post-doal fellow, but again, it's one of those things where you just you keep you
those things where you just you keep you want to like get through this milestone
want to like get through this milestone and then this milestone and then you
and then this milestone and then you want everything to be perfect and you
want everything to be perfect and you start to like this perfectionism can
start to like this perfectionism can sometimes be a double-edged sword,
sometimes be a double-edged sword, right? Yeah.
right? Yeah. Where your perfectionism then is like,
Where your perfectionism then is like, okay, well, you're you're going to have
okay, well, you're you're going to have a trade-off here. Yeah.
a trade-off here. Yeah. And that trade-off for me was my
And that trade-off for me was my reproductive lifespan. You know, I'm I
reproductive lifespan. You know, I'm I was older when I started having
was older when I started having children. know there's a lot of
children. know there's a lot of technologies out there now that can help
technologies out there now that can help with that but at you know 47 it's I
with that but at you know 47 it's I would say not looking good.
would say not looking good. Uh I think I ask about this and I'm
Uh I think I ask about this and I'm curious about this because me and my
curious about this because me and my partner I'm 32. She's turned 33 last
partner I'm 32. She's turned 33 last week. We don't have any kids. We've been
week. We don't have any kids. We've been together for almost seven years now I
together for almost seven years now I think. And so you can imagine in my life
think. And so you can imagine in my life how easy it would be to make excuses
how easy it would be to make excuses that I need to get through this year
that I need to get through this year because this big thing's happening or
because this big thing's happening or I'm moving to LA so now's not the right
I'm moving to LA so now's not the right time. And then she's got her business
time. And then she's got her business going on so now is not the right time
going on so now is not the right time for her and she's traveling and doing
for her and she's traveling and doing these retreats around the world so
these retreats around the world so that's not perfect timing. And then
that's not perfect timing. And then because of this podcast, I've played the
because of this podcast, I've played the scenario forward because I get to meet
scenario forward because I get to meet people who are a little bit further down
people who are a little bit further down the line than me. And I get to ask them
the line than me. And I get to ask them about their regrets and the decisions
about their regrets and the decisions they wish they'd made and were they
they wish they'd made and were they intentional about fat family planning,
intentional about fat family planning, did they wish they'd done it earlier?
did they wish they'd done it earlier? And the thing it's changed in me is it's
And the thing it's changed in me is it's made me realize that to start the
made me realize that to start the process, if it's something I want to do
process, if it's something I want to do well before I'm ready because there is a
well before I'm ready because there is a there whether we like it or not, there
there whether we like it or not, there is a biological clock. And the thing
is a biological clock. And the thing that I've observed in the guests,
that I've observed in the guests, specifically high performance women,
specifically high performance women, whether you Ronda Rousey, the UFC
whether you Ronda Rousey, the UFC champion, who I sat and interviewed and
champion, who I sat and interviewed and who was in tears talking about her
who was in tears talking about her failed IVF for the I don't know the
failed IVF for the I don't know the fifth, sixth, seventh time, or other
fifth, sixth, seventh time, or other women that have sat here and interviewed
women that have sat here and interviewed and looked in their faces is the regret
and looked in their faces is the regret of having that decision taken taken away
of having that decision taken taken away from you is going to be much much worse
from you is going to be much much worse than
than the inconvenience
the inconvenience of the choosing an imperfect time to
of the choosing an imperfect time to have the kid. So, funnily enough, I w I
have the kid. So, funnily enough, I w I don't people don't really know this cuz
don't people don't really know this cuz I don't talk about this, but I walked
I don't talk about this, but I walked away from this podcast a couple just
away from this podcast a couple just after hearing this story over and over
after hearing this story over and over again and I went to the women in my
again and I went to the women in my lives and I was like, it's like super
lives and I was like, it's like super annoying being that guy cuz especially
annoying being that guy cuz especially as a guy saying it, I'm like, by the
as a guy saying it, I'm like, by the way, family planning as early as
way, family planning as early as possible is probably a good idea. and
possible is probably a good idea. and whether that means freezing your eggs or
whether that means freezing your eggs or freezing your embryos or just giving
freezing your embryos or just giving yourself the option in the future um is
yourself the option in the future um is probably a good idea. And it was so
probably a good idea. And it was so interesting to actually see the reaction
interesting to actually see the reaction to me saying that to some of the women
to me saying that to some of the women in my life that I care about like my,
in my life that I care about like my, you know, my siblings or my partner
you know, my siblings or my partner because upon saying it, it wasn't
because upon saying it, it wasn't incredibly wellreceived because
incredibly wellreceived because I think it's a confronting thing to say
I think it's a confronting thing to say to somebody
to somebody because there's a bit of a stigma
because there's a bit of a stigma associated with like freezing your eggs
associated with like freezing your eggs and IVF and freezing your MBOS's. And
and IVF and freezing your MBOS's. And even with my partner, the first time I
even with my partner, the first time I said it to her, it was it was almost as
said it to her, it was it was almost as if I was like insulting a little bit,
if I was like insulting a little bit, insulting her. That's almost the the how
insulting her. That's almost the the how I thought she took it for the first
I thought she took it for the first three or four minutes. But then when I
three or four minutes. But then when I explained what I was saying by like give
explained what I was saying by like give let's give ourselves the option when
let's give ourselves the option when we're older, you know, if you know,
we're older, you know, if you know, let's just give ourselves the option.
let's just give ourselves the option. And also, if you go through these
And also, if you go through these procedures when you're younger, you have
procedures when you're younger, you have higher quality yield from the eggs you
higher quality yield from the eggs you freeze or the embryos you freeze. Let's
freeze or the embryos you freeze. Let's just give ourselves the option. And then
just give ourselves the option. And then she kind of turned 5 minutes into the
she kind of turned 5 minutes into the conversation and then she got super
conversation and then she got super excited about it like 15 minutes in and
excited about it like 15 minutes in and now we're like super excited. So like
now we're like super excited. So like we're we're trying to conceive but also
we're we're trying to conceive but also we're going to be freezing our eggs and
we're going to be freezing our eggs and freezing embryos in this year in
freezing embryos in this year in September because and I've just tried to
September because and I've just tried to be a really big influence to the women
be a really big influence to the women in my life to like give yourself the
in my life to like give yourself the option. And I say this because I've seen
option. And I say this because I've seen the regret on this podcast and that's
the regret on this podcast and that's what I'm saying. And I think all I think
what I'm saying. And I think all I think all people that can and I know it's
all people that can and I know it's expensive as early as you can should
expensive as early as you can should consider the fact that we live in a
consider the fact that we live in a world that is driving productivity that
world that is driving productivity that is making us work later and later in
is making us work later and later in life that is making us more obsessed
life that is making us more obsessed with our careers and without us really
with our careers and without us really knowing it there is a clock and it's
knowing it there is a clock and it's robbing us of the option to make family
robbing us of the option to make family planning decisions.
planning decisions. 100% agree. I I can't I can't agree
100% agree. I I can't I can't agree more. Exclamation exclamation everything
more. Exclamation exclamation everything you just said. I mean, if I had frozen
you just said. I mean, if I had frozen my eggs or we had done, you know, IVF
my eggs or we had done, you know, IVF and frozen embryos that were viable and
and frozen embryos that were viable and healthy, then we'd have the option,
healthy, then we'd have the option, right? I mean, it's it's it's it's so
right? I mean, it's it's it's it's so true. And I don't know. I think I think
true. And I don't know. I think I think I was just really blinded by and
I was just really blinded by and overwhelmed by, you know, how much work
overwhelmed by, you know, how much work I have to do and thinking, "Oh, there's
I have to do and thinking, "Oh, there's no way I could do more than one."
no way I could do more than one." Because, again, I when I'm a mother, I
Because, again, I when I'm a mother, I go all in.
go all in. Yeah.
Yeah. When I'm a podcaster, I go all in.
When I'm a podcaster, I go all in. That's exactly,
That's exactly, you know, it's not just, you know, when
you know, it's not just, you know, when I have a guest on, like I really like I
I have a guest on, like I really like I need to like be really interested in
need to like be really interested in them and, you know, so there's it's all
them and, you know, so there's it's all in, but not giving myself that option is
in, but not giving myself that option is a big regret, you know, where at least
a big regret, you know, where at least if I had frozen my eggs down, then I
if I had frozen my eggs down, then I would be at a point now this if I had
would be at a point now this if I had done this, you know, when I was 39 or 40
done this, you know, when I was 39 or 40 or even if I had done it the first time,
or even if I had done it the first time, you know, when I was earlier in my 30s,
you know, when I was earlier in my 30s, I should have done that, you know, but
I should have done that, you know, but um I just didn't have the foresight
um I just didn't have the foresight enough to to do that and I and I do
enough to to do that and I and I do regret it. So, it's great. It's great
regret it. So, it's great. It's great that you talk about it to the the women
that you talk about it to the the women you that are in your life and even on
you that are in your life and even on the podcast.
the podcast. We're really bad at forecasting the fact
We're really bad at forecasting the fact that we will change
that we will change this. And I think this is like really at
this. And I think this is like really at the heart of it. Like we're really bad
the heart of it. Like we're really bad at forecasting the fact that our current
at forecasting the fact that our current state of mind might not be our future
state of mind might not be our future state of mind. But you've only got to
state of mind. But you've only got to look backwards in your life and realize
look backwards in your life and realize how different you are and how you think
how different you are and how you think and what your priorities were. I was in
and what your priorities were. I was in nightclubs at 18 and 19. I there's
nightclubs at 18 and 19. I there's nothing for me going to a nightclub now
nothing for me going to a nightclub now be like a form of like it'd be like
be like a form of like it'd be like waterboarding me. It'd be like torture.
waterboarding me. It'd be like torture. I changed and so at like 35 at 40 45
I changed and so at like 35 at 40 45 there's a high probability that I'm
there's a high probability that I'm going to have a different perspective
going to have a different perspective than the one I have now. So give myself
than the one I have now. So give myself the option at 45 to like you
the option at 45 to like you know so that's kind of how I think about
know so that's kind of how I think about it and I say this out publicly because I
it and I say this out publicly because I just think I don't like I don't like
just think I don't like I don't like seeing that regret in people.
seeing that regret in people. It's hard. Yeah, it it's definitely
It's hard. Yeah, it it's definitely hard. Thankfully, I do have this joy in
hard. Thankfully, I do have this joy in my life and I'm so glad I have that.
my life and I'm so glad I have that. But,
But, and I have to acknowledge the fact that
and I have to acknowledge the fact that many people even if they did want the
many people even if they did want the option for fertility reasons can't have
option for fertility reasons can't have children. So, um it's not still not an
children. So, um it's not still not an option for everybody because there are,
option for everybody because there are, you know, people have certain health
you know, people have certain health complications and um other issues which
complications and um other issues which prevent them from having kids even if
prevent them from having kids even if they wanted to and even if they're young
they wanted to and even if they're young and I've got friends in my life that
and I've got friends in my life that unfortunately are in that situation. But
unfortunately are in that situation. But yeah, thank you so much for the work
yeah, thank you so much for the work that you do. It's um it's really really
that you do. It's um it's really really important work in part because you're so
important work in part because you're so unbelievably engaging, but you're so
unbelievably engaging, but you're so because of your obsession, you're so
because of your obsession, you're so unbelievably rigorous and in the detail
unbelievably rigorous and in the detail of the things you talk about. And as you
of the things you talk about. And as you said, there's so many people around the
said, there's so many people around the world, and I know because we we meet
world, and I know because we we meet them wherever we go in the world that
them wherever we go in the world that don't have access to this information
don't have access to this information like they're not going to be on PubMed
like they're not going to be on PubMed reading through the journals and trying
reading through the journals and trying to distill these big words. And I think
to distill these big words. And I think you do a brilliant job of educating many
you do a brilliant job of educating many many millions of people in every corner
many millions of people in every corner of the world through your YouTube
of the world through your YouTube channel and your Instagram etc. and um
channel and your Instagram etc. and um making these like complicated things
making these like complicated things accessible and if if if you're
accessible and if if if you're successful in that which you very much
successful in that which you very much are you're you're tilting the trajectory
are you're you're tilting the trajectory of their life but also therefore their
of their life but also therefore their future and their kids' lives and their
future and their kids' lives and their kids' kids' lives and um and that's a
kids' kids' lives and um and that's a really wonderful thing and we need more
really wonderful thing and we need more public educators like you that have the
public educators like you that have the talent of articulation and engagement
talent of articulation and engagement that you do. There's they're very very
that you do. There's they're very very rare and hard to come by. I do a podcast
rare and hard to come by. I do a podcast where I look at all these people and
where I look at all these people and you're like the very very best at it and
you're like the very very best at it and you've done it for so unbelievably long
you've done it for so unbelievably long and that's why. So, thank you so much
and that's why. So, thank you so much for educating us and allowing us to live
for educating us and allowing us to live the future that uh that'll be most
the future that uh that'll be most conducive with our health and happiness.
conducive with our health and happiness. Well, thank you so much Stephen for the
Well, thank you so much Stephen for the really engaging conversation and for
really engaging conversation and for asking the hard questions.
asking the hard questions. Thank you.
Thank you. This has always blown my mind a little
This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to the show
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