The "Big Five" barbell exercises (squat, bench press, deadlift, overhead press, bent-over row) are often promoted as the best for muscle growth, but this content argues they are not universally optimal for hypertrophy due to limiting factors beyond the target muscle and potential for injury.
F the big five.
>> F the big five. You've wanted to talk
about this for quite some time.
>> I've started the video at least twice
and gave up on. >> Cool.
>> Cool.
>> Because I got bored. So, it's about time.
time. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, first let's define some terms. What
do we
What are the big five?
>> Well, the big five come out of the big three,
three,
which are squat, bench, deadlift,
generally speaking.
Sure, someone someone might replace the
deadlift with one of the other two.
Those are the big three movements.
>> Yeah, they're the power lifts,
>> right? The big five >> powerlifting.
>> powerlifting.
>> The big five would include the overhead
press and the bent over row. Those are
usually considered the big five barbell movements
movements
that you will see in most 5x5 systems,
starting strength, strong lifts, any
number of them.
You can go Google right now
best exercises for mass gangs and more
articles than not will have those
listed. The big barbell movements are
best for mass gangs. You'll see it repeatedly.
repeatedly.
>> You'll often see dips and chin-ups or
pull-ups thrown in.
>> Yeah. I mean there there is slight
variation. Um you know years ago Pavle
wrote an article I think it was overhead
pre or book overhead press and deadlift
were the big two but it like it tends to
revol yes there others will be included
but almost without exception. Those will
be part of it or the more general if you
don't do these lefts you're pansy.
That's not the actual P word that's
typically used, but I'll try to make
this easier for you to not get
demonetized or have to be have to bleep
out less of my language. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> Thank you. Very considerate.
>> I try. I know. I I know I've missed a
couple times, but I'm doing my best. So,
these movements have been around
forever. They are they are held up as
the beall endall. You must squat. You
must bench. You must deadlift.
Now, yes, that's true if you're a powerlifter.
powerlifter.
They are part of your competition package
package
except unless you do push pull because
you don't want to squat or bench only
because you don't want to squat or
deadlift or deadlift only because you
don't want to squat or bench.
There's a fed here that does squat only
and I can't imagine why anyone's want to
do that. That's nuts. But they are part
of the competition package. You're a
powerlifter, you must do this movement.
Olympic lifters generally must at least
front squat.
Whether or not they deadlift, that's a
lot more variable. Most, I would dare
say, do not. It's not part of most
systems. Very few bench press.
Even strongman,
you would be surprised at what patterns.
I met a strongman competitor power a
bunch of years ago, and he's like,
"Yeah, I had to learn how to squat for
this. He decided to come to a power
meet." is like we don't squat for strong
men because it's not generally a
movement pattern that they do. Now
they'll do deadlift, they'll do push
press or strict press like the log, but
they don't do bench other than general
general preparatory.
They deadlift because they usually do
deadlift for reps of some sort. Yeah,
he's like, "Yeah, I had to I had to
learn how to squat or relearn how to
squat, which I thought was interesting."
But talk about performance. What about hypertrophy?
hypertrophy?
Are these the best movements for
hypertrophy? Now, let me qualify this
because everybody always mishares me
whether usually deliberately because
they are incapable of listening to my
work. Okay? I am not anti-quat. I am not
anti-bench. I am not anti-de.
I did them all when I was younger. I was
pretty good. I was decent at squat and
deadlift. I was terrible at bench.
I've trained powerlifters
to high levels. I'm not against these
movements in as much anymore than I'm
against most things. Matter of context,
matter of situation
anymore than I am for or against
training to failure. It depends. I
realize this is a hard concept to under
because soon as people hear this go
sucks at squats. No, I'm pretty sure I
probably squatted more than you and
better than you. I squatted high bar,
rock bottom. I've done a power I've
competed in powerlifting at a mediocre
level. I've trained powerlifters. Trust me,
me,
>> some pissed off power.
>> I know more about squats than everybody.
Trust me, I've done more squats than you
have. I miss
>> You're being prestigious, right? That's
an appeal to authority.
>> I'm just making a point. People go like,
"Oh, Loyal just doesn't like squats
because he's bad." No, I used to love squatting.
squatting. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I missed it for years. Now I can't do it
because my hips messed up and I don't
bend that way anymore. I'm not against
squats. I'm not or venture dead. I'm
against the global
recommendation of those movements for
optimal hypertrophy.
Let me rephrase that. I am against the global
global
elevation of the big five
as the best movements for skeletal
muscle hypertrophy for all individuals.
Is that enough qualifications? Because
now we're going to walk through them.
Let's do that. Let's build a model of
what stimulates hypertrophy. And I'll
try to keep this quick.
I think we talked about this in the
previous thing, but for background.
And look, if these other people can use
appeals to authority, so can I.
>> The appeal to the bandwagon.
>> Yeah. Whatever. Appeal to
whoever I want to appeal to. Okay.
Unless you're one of a couple of
individuals in this industry, we know
that to cause a muscle fiber to grow, it
must be recruited.
There a couple people that don't think
that's true. I'm not getting into that
discussion. I think there will. Yes,
fine. Whatever. Because they'll see.
Yes, I get it. There is lateral tension
through the integrans and the connective
tissue matrix. Guys, I know more about
it than you do. Trust me. Anyway, we're
going to go from that context. Now we
know that muscle fibers can be recruited
in one of two ways. Well, they generate
force in one of two ways. Recruitment
and rate coding. Rate coding just means
how fast the signals come from the
brain. Recruitment means the fibers
actually being recruited. Now muscle
fibers are recruited in order from
smallest to largest, from slow to fast
twitch according to something called
Henman size principle. Basically the
more force you need to generate, the
more high threshold fast twitch muscle
fibers are recruited. Right? So if
you're walking, slow twitch fibers, low
force requirements. Move into a jog,
maybe some type two, run to full sprint,
high threshold.
Now in the weight room, you can recruit
and you can recruit fibers through two
different approaches.
One, you can use very heavy weights
above roughly 80 to 85% of maximum,
about 5 to eight reps. You'll get full
fiber recruitment from about repetition
one, maybe repetition two.
So you can use heavy weights for low repetitions
repetitions
or you can use high repetitions
to failure.
That's why hence the new idea there is
no hypertrophy range. Any repetition
range will work if you go to failure and
there is contextual truth to that.
So if you do a set of eight,
you will probably get full recruitment
from about rep two. Let's say you do an
allout set of eight, just for example.
Not recommending failure, making a
point. You'll get five repetitions under
full recruitment. What we're now calling
effective repetitions.
But let's say you do a set of 15 to failure.
failure.
You won't get full recruitment till that
rep 10.
You'll get about as you get tired, as
bar speed slows,
the body will have to call in higher
threshold muscle fibers. Fight type two.
The last three to five repetitions of an
allout set of 15 is neurologically physiologically
physiologically
identical to the final five sets of a
set of eight. You just set of 25 to
failure. Same thing. The final five
repetitions will look the same. They'll
physiologically they're essentially the
same. I don't want to get into all.
That's why it all generates the same hypertrophy
because you're seeing full recruitment.
You're getting the same five effect. The
difference is just in how many reps you
had to do to get there.
Heavy set of eight. What I say you do
heavy set of five 100 kilos by five by
five. You'll get full recruitment from
rep one.
You got five effective reps. Five reps
under full recruitment. >> Sure.
>> Sure. >> Did
>> Did
kilos by 15.
>> Well, even you did a set of five at an
ARM, you'll still get a number of
repetitions at full recruitment. That's
why you do not have to go to failure
with heavy weights, but you do have to
go to failure with light weights. And
the data to it anyway, right?
>> Go with low load training. If it's not
to failure, you don't get much growth.
>> How low are we talking?
They usually use 30% for 25 reps.
>> Yeah. So that's very light.
>> Yeah. The low stuff. Now BFR is
different. The blood flow restriction.
You do get recruitment. You don't have
to go to failure because the
accumulation of metabolites increases
fiber recruitment sooner.
But it doesn't matter. Here's the point.
To stimulate a muscle to grow, you must
recruit it and you must expose it to
some amount of mechanical work.
My point is that you can get to
recruitment in multiple ways. Heavy
weights for low repetitions, light
weights essentially to failure for
higher. Just a matter of how many you
had to do beforehand, right? Even people
are like, "Oh, well 25 reps gives you
the same growth as eight." I like, "Yay,
but you had to dick around for 20 to get there,
there,
right? It's the same, but you have to do
three times as much work. It hurts 10
times as much and you'll probably throw
up. Doesn't improve bone mineral
density. It doesn't improve maximum
strength. So, yes, it's interesting in a
physiological sense. But in a practical
sense, I still think there is a
practical hypertrophy range somewhere
between six and 12.
Low reps tend to take too long and wear
out your joints. High reps are boring
and make people want to throw up. And
BFR made me looks cool and edgy on
Instagram. And I think that fad I think
that fad has gone.
It's great if you're injured to reduce
joint loading, but that's separate.
Okay, let's continue building this
model. We know that you do need to take
a muscle
to within a certain proximity to failure
to get growth.
Generally, I think most would agree
somewhere between zero to three. zero
zero reps in reserve which would be you
could not complete another repetition
three reps in reserve you could get
three more that's usually bar speed will
generally have slowed at that point
which is a generally a good indication
that you have gotten full recruitment
you are nearing limits
yes I know there was one really dumb
metaanalysis that looked at this that
anybody that took seriously I I question
it suggested that you could get growth
at 21 reps in reserve so if you did four
reps within RM unload you'd grow. Sure.
Cool. I believe you. Absolutely >> amazing.
>> amazing.
>> Amazing stuff. Maybe if you're untrained
at 80 because it but even then it showed
that as you got closer to zero reps in
reserve you did get more growth. Zero to
three maybe zero to four. That's
>> all right. So So where is this going?
How does all this relate to the big
five? I think I can see.
>> Sure you can. But I'm getting there.
Okay. So
>> you'll get that. We must recruit a fiber
in the target muscle. We must expose it
to a certain number of effective
repetitions. And we can argue about how
many might be optimal in a given
workout. That's a separate discussion.
And we know that we must take the muscle
the muscle to a certain
proximity to failure, which we're going
to say is between zero and three reps in
a result because that's where people get
it wrong.
Generally in these studies or in the
real world they talk about taking an
exercise to a certain repetition and
result and this is a problem.
So let's say our goal is to train the quads.
quads.
People go squats. Squats are best for
quads. Well squats is a complicated
movement. Requires a good deal of
coordination. It involves a lot of
muscle groups. quads, glutes, little bit
of hamstring, low back, upper back.
There's a lot going on.
Now, let's say I take a random
individual to two reps in reserve on the
squats, which I dare say most people
listening to this have never done. And
if you have, send me the video. I'd love
to be proven wrong. And yet somehow
people never sent me the video because
if it didn't slow down a lot, you didn't
get and I dare say none of you have ever
gone to zero. I've done it. I've seen it
done. I wouldn't recommend it. Let's say
you take an individual to provably two
reps in reserve. Okay.
Okay.
What caused that individual to stop and sell?
sell?
Was it their quads? Was it their glutes?
Was it their low back giving out? Was it
their upper back giving out?
We don't know. Now, if someone is built
well for squats, by which I mean they're
typically, if they're not shorter, they
have short femurss. They can squat very
upright, very high bar, a lot of knee flexion,
flexion,
>> not a lot of load on their low back or
upper back.
It's more likely that their quads
are what limited the set.
Now, let's take someone who's very tall,
has very long femurs.
who has a weak upper back, who has a
weak lower back when they hit two reps
in reserve.
Can we say that their quads
are what hit two reps in reserve? Well,
we don't know. I don't know. And you
don't know. And they might, they might
not have. Realistically, they probably didn't.
didn't.
Now, let's say I put that same person on
a hack squat
who has got long legs and I take them in
two reps in reserve.
I can say with pretty decent certainty
that their quads are probably what
limited them. Yeah, it could be glutes.
It like it could be other variables.
But now let's say I take put them on a
leg extension machine and I take them to
two reps reserve.
I know what failed. I know what I know
what muscle
received an effective stimula.
It was the quads. It had to be because
there's nothing else. There's nothing
else it could be. Think about the bench
press, right? Again, we've got the
balance, compound movement, the
complexity, triceps, front delts, serrus
anterior. If someone is built to bench,
usually they typically have a barrel
chest, very short arms.
But take someone who's got big long ass
arms like me. Mine.
>> I've got a long way to move a bench
press. And likely my triceps are going
to give out long before my chest. If I
take a bench press to two reps in
reserve, was it my pecs that got to two
reps in reserve or was it my triceps?
If I do a pec deck to two reps in
reserve, I guarantee it was my pecs.
So, the reason that I say f the big five
as a global recommendation
is well, let me back up.
If we're talking about exercises for
skeletal muscle hypertrophy, not
strength, not getting better at the squat,
squat,
hypertrophy. Hypertrophy is local. It
means exposing the target muscle to a
given tension and amount of mechanical
work to a certain proximity to failure.
Any exercise that has a limiting factor
that is not the target muscle will not
be an effective exercise or hypertrophy
for that muscle. So if you are benching
for chest and either don't know how to
use your pecs during the bench which is common
common
or your triceps are failing very early
that means that the pecs are not being
exposed to a proper stimulant. Let's
look at the deadlift. Okay,
Solomon, what does the deadlift train?
>> Hamstrings, glutes, spinal erectors,
traps, grip. If you're not using straps
or if you have a really weak grip,
>> right? People will say the deadlift
trains everything. There is no
everything muscle, >> right?
>> right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Growth is local in training everything.
The deadlift essentially trains nothing
except the deadlift. Because if you are deadlifting
deadlifting
realistically what is going to be
limiting well grip
>> probably the low back
>> perhaps generally low back is what will
give out generally speaking unless you
are built perfectly
everything is balanced
well if you're trying to train your low
back maybe that's fine but there are way
more time efficient and energy efficient
ways of training your low back that will
not exhaust you
>> could do like Jefferson curls
>> whatever do back extensions I don't give
a [ __ ] Like it doesn't. Sorry. I don't
give a damn. Like whatever to do to use
deadlifts. I once had someone tell me,
"Oh, I I think of squats as a core
exercise. If you're using squats to
train core, you are doing it wrong." Why
would you use an exercise so physically exhausting
exhausting
to train your core for God's sake?
Deadlifts are physically and emotionally
exhausting. If you got to get a better
deadlift, you got to do it. Make no
mistake. But what are they training in
term? What target muscle is being
exposed to the proper stimulus? Nothing.
Nothing.
Bent over row, it's usually low back
that gets out
long before upper back. Now,
am I saying that these movements are
inherently bad? No. And that's where
people get confused.
I noticed years ago that this is how
most people will approach exercise
selection and recommendations. If
someone says this exercise is best for hypertrophy,
hypertrophy,
it means they're built for it. Period.
It fits them. They are able to use it to
effectively train the target muscle to a
sufficient proximity to failure. If they
say this exercise is bad for hyper
croaking, either they're not built for
it or they never learned how to do it
properly. But it's usually the first
one. And here's a really interesting
example of this. Someone I know knows
Tom Plattz personally.
Tom Plattz was built to squat and he
learned high bar Olympic squatting from
a very early age.
>> I think I know who this someone is. >> Uh
>> Uh
>> won't shut up about Tom Platz.
>> I don't even I'm not sure I remember
>> the experiences he's had with him. >> But
>> But >> anyway,
>> anyway,
>> Tom Plattz would say, "Oh, you got to
squat for big legs." >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Because he was built for it. But in the
same breath, he would go because there
was another body world that said, "Oh
yeah, bench press is best for pecs." And
Tom Platz would go, "No, I don't think
bench is very good for chest." Because
he wasn't built for it. But he couldn't
he couldn't make he couldn't see that.
Couldn't see that the reason he felt
that squads were best for quads. They
might have been best for him and that's
fine. So what happens is you get people
that happen to be built for certain well
for certain movements or just have a
macho attachment more more than anything
that think oh well this is best for me
because I'm built for it works great for me.
me.
>> Yeah. And then you get somebody who's
tall who's built like you or Sunni for
whom squats are a low back movement and
they never get anything out of their
quads ever or they get
>> I I believe I have gotten a decent
amount out of squats but it's it's been
you know a lot of effort like getting
the movement right for me. I train at
home for the unaware listeners. I just
have a barbell power rack and I make do
you know
>> right and there I mean and there look
there are ways to make things better in
terms of you know you can get heeled
shoes you can you know put your heels up
to get you a little bit
>> back of a wedge you know and I can squat
reasonably upright
>> but the wedge and that but that makes a
really big difference because it is
changing the biomechanics someone that
can't do that
>> doesn't have that option you know and
again and and some of this like you will
and this is where you'll see differences
between women and
Right now there are no women specific
and men's specific exercises. That was
the thing back in the there were, you
know, mass gaining exercises and toning
exercises and men did one and women did
the other and all this other ridiculous
[ __ ] But there is some truth to that.
Many women, well the majority of women
have more muscle mass in the lower body
than their upper body. Men tend to be a
little more even. So women's legs can
frequently move a lot more in the squat
than their shoulder caner than they can
comfortably shoulder.
So, if they're back squatting for quads
or glutes and their upper back is what's
giving out, they have picked an exercise
that has a limiting factor that is not
the target muscle. That's why hip
thrusts were a very valuable movement.
It took the upper body out of it. It
took all that other stuff and allowed
the glutes to be isolated.
So, when I say f the big five, I'm not
saying it in a global sense. I'm saying that
that
>> saying that those are the best movements
for hypertrophy for all people is
myopic. It's really a bunch of macho BS
because weight training is the only
place I can think of that in 2025 people
are still married to 100y old
technology. There is nowhere else in the
world where people like well this is how
guys got big in the did it in the 20s.
We should go back to uh slide rules like
calculators, cell phones. Let's go back
to the telegraph. The reason guys did
squat bench deadlift in the early 20th
century is that's all there was to do.
They did that because that's what was avail
that that was all and even then they
were trying to find more efficient ways
to train the muscle. early leg press variations.
variations.
They just crazy stuff. And I think
there's a reason that if you look at a
lot of top bodybuilders,
especially the ones that stay injuryfree,
injuryfree,
they do a lot more machines than free
weights in the modern era because a
well-built machine will let you isolate
and focus the target muscle in a way
that the big barbell movements
frequently do.
If you're not built to deadlift, if you
got bad levers, you're not only going to
get nothing out of that movement, you're
going to get hurt.
>> Now, now one counter argument might go,
yes, your low back might be the first
thing to fail on a properly executed
deadlift. But if you take your deadlift
from 200 lb to 500 lb, then no matter
how poorly you're built for it, all the
muscles involved in the deadlift will
have hypertrophied in the process. Yes,
obviously low back, but also hamstrings,
traps, glutes.
>> You think that's a stretch?
>> No, I I don't disagree with that except
for the fact that if someone's not built
for a deadlift, it's never going to
happen in a million years that they're
>> 200 to 500.
>> Hell no. How many 500 pound deadlifts
have you ever seen, dude?
>> I mean,
>> I've been in gyms for 30 years. That
300, 400, 500. Tell me how many you've
ever seen any go into any commercial gym.
gym.
>> It's actually true. I can pull 500, but
>> yeah, I haven't really seen it.
>> It's It's not a common. You don't see
that. So, yes, that argument is there,
but when you talk to people that are not
built for these movements, they train
men for years and make no results. They
get no gains. So, yeah, that's a great
theory. That's like the the argument.
Well, what would be bigger shoulders? A
300lb overhead press or 30 pound lateral
raise. A that shows total ignorance of
lever arms, but I've never seen a 300lb
overhead press. And someone not built to
overhead press is never going to get
from 95 pounds to 300 ever.
>> So, you don't disagree in, you know,
theory, but just in practice, it
probably won't happen.
>> No, it's not a matter of probably won't.
It's a matter of it never like it just doesn't.
doesn't.
>> Yeah. If you're really fully Yeah.
>> It just doesn't happen.
>> Especially not for reps. Maybe you can pull
pull
>> 500 by eight in a Hell no. Absolutely
not. I mean, look, here's an like here's
an appeal to authority, but it just
happens to make my point. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> The Chinese Olympic lifters who have
made being jacked a national pastime,
right? Olympic lifters have gone through
phases of being relatively more or less muscular.
muscular.
Those guys make put bodybuilders to
shame and here's how they train. They
actually train the way I've trained
people my entire career. He said not at
all smugly. They practice the Olympic
lifts relentlessly.
Heavy reps, low rep. Heavy weights, low
reps. They fix weak points, very
specific exercises. They squat twice a
week and then they do bodybuilding work.
usually isolation stuff
because all the coaches care about is
stimulating the muscle for hypertrophy
because a larger muscle is a potentially
stronger muscle. They do just
bodybuilding stuff,
various lateral raises, leg extensions.
I mean, I'm sure some of but a lot of
them they're tend to be very short. They
don't squat for they squat for squat for size,
size,
right? Dorian
used mostly machines by the end of his
career. One of his big learnings, he
said, you know, he was back squatting
and got hurt
and he switched to the Smith machine and
he realized, wow, this is actually a
much better quad stimulus on top of
being safer because when you get that
strong, trying to squat for high reps is
a good way to get wrecked if something
goes wrong. I think there's a reason
that he stayed relatively injury-free
his entire career.
Eventually, the heavy barbell stuff
catches up with you. And there are
often, again, I'm not saying they're bad
for everybody. There are cases where
they must be used, like if that's all
the equipment you've got and you have to
work within the potential that you've
got. But if you're not built for that
movement, if that exercise has any
limiting factor, that is not the target
muscle. That's really the most
generalized statement I can make.
And I know we did talk about this at one
point. forget if it was it was like you
know what are like the four big
components of making that make an
effective hypertrophy exercise which is
that it must fit the person allow them
to train the target muscle to a
sufficient intensity be safe and
progressible and for people with poor
biomechanics poor is the wrong word for
people with certain biomechanics
the big five are a losing battle period
period
And there will be other and I maintain
one of these days I'll get a guinea pig.
But I've said this and nobody has yet to
give me a reason why this wouldn't work.
I maintain that you could take someone
from untrained to their genetic
potential with nothing but isolation exercises
exercises
because there will be that will allow
you to train the target muscle as
effectively as directly as efficiently
as humanly possible. And I've had people
go, "That won't work." And I say, "Why?"
And they go,
"Because you're stupid, lol." No one
I've not I've yet to hear a
physiological. Now, yes, there are
practical issues. I'm not talking about practicalities,
practicalities,
right? Obviously, compound movements can
be efficient. They train multiple
muscles. I'm not saying that you can run
into problems with incrementing
isolation movements. There are practical
issues that would cause problems with
this. You're trying to train upper body
and you're doing eight sets of isolation
movements with no crossover. That's a
lot of volume, right? Like
>> that's a separate issue though from a
purely physiological standpoint in terms
of stimulating the target muscle or
muscle group. And that's a separate complexity
complexity
that just has to do with exercise
choice. I see no fundamental reason why.
And and if you don't agree with that,
well then a answer me the question, why
can you get big biceps with nothing but
isolation barbell curls? Why wouldn't
that work for quads? Why wouldn't that
work for hamstrings? Why wouldn't that
work for pecs? If it'll work for biceps
and triceps or delves,
why wouldn't it work for the bigger?
Because you got to squatter European
>> because of Israel's mythical raw
stimulus magnitude.
>> Cool story, bro.
>> Remember that whole thing?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Like, oh, these movements are inherently
more hypertrophic of logic and actual
science. If you can get the biggest
biceps possible with nothing but an
isolation exercise,
why fundamentally would it not work? We
know that in a lean lean back, here's
one that'll piss everybody off. I was
gonna pick one quad exercise for someone
>> like I don't like the you could only do
one exercise per muscle group question
because I think it's dumb. But there's a situation
situation >> extensions.
>> extensions.
>> Yes. And here's why. We know that
compared to a leg press or a squat or a
hack squat, leg extensions hit the
rectus traorus and the others don't. If
you wanted to hit all four heads of the
quadriceps, VMO, VL, RF, and vasis
intermediates that no one cares about
because it's it's deep, the leg
extension would get it and a leg press
or squat or hack squat wouldn't. You can
pick one exercise would be leg
extension. If you had to pick one for
hamstrings or RDL's, aha.
>> Yeah. They don't hit the biceps for short.
short.
>> What about biceps for short head, which
is only a hip flexor?
>> They just hit the semmitenosis,
semimebinosis, and biceps for long head.
Yeah. Only leg curl will hit all four in
one exercise. Ha. >> Yeah,
>> Yeah,
>> I can tra. So there you go.
>> Still still you could build some pretty
massive hamstrings with RDL's and
squats. Sorry. Yeah. Massive quads and
hamstrings with squats and RDL's alone.
You could. It's been done many times.
>> If you're Yes. And many people have
toiled at squats for years and gotten
nothing. Like this was probably propaganda.
propaganda.
>> Sure. Like Fred Hatfield, Arthur Jones
claimed that Fred Hatfield had the
weakest quads of anyone he'd ever
trained tested, which is probably
propaganda BS, but if you
>> That sounds that sounds unlikely.
>> Look, even Well, the thing is, but if
you look at the way Hatfield squats, it
was all low back, glutes, and
hamstrings. He was not a quad.
Powerlifting squats done frequently are
not quad dominant. Even Louie said that
he focused on the posterior chain for
squats because the way they squatted was
way more hitter.
You can find plenty of powerlifters that
do not have great quads until they start
doing bodybuilding stuff and then their
quads explode because they're actually
training the quads for the first time.
>> Yeah. The the way I squat is narrow
stance, plenty of heel elevation, high
bar, pause at the bottom, control on the
way down.
>> Absolutely. Yes. But the thing is that
without specific equipment or specific
>> for many people that can't be done and
once femurss are beyond a certain point
there ain't nothing you can do to get
people up upright beyond a certain
point. I we spent years with with Sunni
>> not even in stiletto heels.
>> Well maybe yeah maybe we I mean we had
her in a one and a quarter inch heel. We
worked she toiled. She had great ankle
mobility. Still only going to be was
only ever going to be so good. It was a
terrible quad. And
>> I built what little quad she had with
isolation, leg extensions and hack
squats because squats were going to be a
losing battle for her. There was always
going to be a set limiter that was
nothing to do with her quads.
>> So again, to sum up, I am not against
the big five Bards.
>> I am against the global recommendation
of them being best for hypertrophy for
all people.
And sure, I still would argue that for a
majority of people, if your goal is hypertrophy,
hypertrophy,
>> that's the big five up, period. Unless
that's all you've got. You've got access
to well-built machines that let you
train the target muscle more
effectively, more efficiently, with less
overall stress and exhaustion, you'll
get more gains,
>> right? So, I guess follow-up question
could be, what would be your go-to
replacements for each of the big five?
So, yeah. If squats are held to be a
great lower body movement, what might
you replace it with?
>> Hack squat, pendulum squat.
>> Yeah. Just for the stability back.
>> Anything to simply to remove the
stability component, the low back issue,
the upper back issue, and the fact that
if something goes wrong on a back squat,
you get wrecked,
right? you tip over, you get out of
position, something happens. Back squat,
you get wrecked. That does not happen on
those other exercises. Bench press, I
would put in any chest press.
>> Yeah. And people really shouldn't take
that lightly. Like, yeah, it's dangerous
and people forget that
>> squatting with a barbell on your back. >> Like,
>> Like,
>> yes. If something goes wrong,
>> died doing it
>> multiple times. Yes, people get severely
injured. And trust me, if you ever had a
low back injury, you never want one
again. to their life. Like they could be
career enders, right? And and as you get
stronger, progressive tension, like
again, there's a limit. There's a limit.
Squatting squatting heavy weights for
reps is a
>> I'm not trying to fear monger. I'm sure
you're not either.
>> No, I'm absolutely not.
>> I think it is it is important.
>> Yeah. Just to know. Yeah. Like things
can go seriously wrong whenever you're
in the weight room. And some exercises
lend themselves to injuries more than others.
others. >> Well,
>> Well, >> factually,
>> factually,
>> yes. Not to mention that,
>> I'll come back to this. People will
often, it's it's always interesting to
me, the exercises that people will
choose to promote and choose to deny
based on injury risk. Let me come back
to that in a second because frequently
they'll be like, "Oh, this small
isolation exercise potentially
injurious, but I recommend squats, power
cleans, and deadlifts to everyone."
>> Anything can cause an injury if
something goes wrong, but the magnitude,
scope, and type of injury can very be
very different. >> Yes,
>> Yes,
>> I I've had a shoulder impingement and
they're no fun. I'll take that over the
disc injury I had, the spinal injury I
had any day of the week.
>> Injury is not one thing. And some
injuries are career endures. Or if not,
they'll make the rest of your life super miserable.
miserable.
And trying to go heavy on the big
barbell movements constantly over time
will take its toll. Sorry, can take its
toll. Hell, even if you look at plats,
he was not doing high rep squatting
every workout. He talked about that. He
only that only
>> he squatted once every two weeks, right?
>> Yeah. Exactly. And that's not how people
are thinking like, oh, you know,
especially the squat high frequency BS.
But it's like, yeah, if you actually
look at what he was doing. Yeah, he was
doing the big squat work. We're not
>> should tell you about Ivon Juricha.
>> Anyway, what just
>> So, so yeah, for most people
at squat, pendulum squat, quad dominant
leg press, you'll be able to actually
hit the target muscle with less overall
fatigue and with less potential risk.
Like, yeah, can you can you get hurt on
a leg press? Yeah, if you round your low
back and do something, absolutely. I'm
not saying that machines are injury
risk-f free, but I've had stuff go wrong
on a back squat. I've seen stuff go
wrong on a back squat. When it goes
wrong, it goes bad very quickly and
very, very badly.
Okay. Bench press, any chest press,
machine chest press, good hammer chest
press, anything that takes away the
stability and the fear. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right now, the bench press is probably
one of the few places where people have
truly gone to zero reps reserve.
Although it's usually crappy high school
bouncing bench press BS, but you're
training by yourself. Talk about people
dying. Bench press is a great way to do
it. You get a bar dropped on you or you
get it caught in your throat, you die.
I've seen some ugly thing. Again, I'm
not fear-mongering. I'm saying it
happens a lot. But if you go to zero,
let's say, let's say, let's say you're
going to zero reps reserve. Again, not
recommending failure. Let's say that
that's how you train. You get a true
failure on a bench press. You don't get
that last rep and you don't have a
spotter or you are in trouble. Or you
get out of
>> Yeah, I have safeties so I can go to
zero or I do it often more than I should
I think. But
>> yeah, I've done it in a safety rack or
with always with SP. Always with safeties.
safeties. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> If you're on a chest press and you get
stuck, you just go doink and you're
And you will be and if you learn to
bench check bench with your pecs article
on my website called benching with the
packs because most people are very bad
at it. You will actually get a better
chest. You've taken away the balance
component right now. Triceps may still
be limiting on a chest press. So maybe
you pre-exhaust, maybe you do a couple
sets of pec deck first
>> and then go to chest press.
>> There's actually I want to say it was
Lee Labrada. I saw some dumb reel on
Facebook, but there I know there have
been bodybuilders that even when they
back squatted, they did it last in their
leg workout.
And his logic
>> must have been Lee Priest.
>> Yes, I think you're right.
>> Very least talked about this. I know you got
got
>> because that way he could back squat
your back. He'd already done leg
extensions, hacks, whatever. His quads
retired. It allowed him to use much
lighter weight
>> on that movement and still and I think
he was also in the Smith machine and
actually get a better quad stimulus
without all the other issues that are
inherent to putting four or five wheels aside.
aside. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> On a squat ball. So that that would be
what you know and I actually with a lot
of people that I could consult um also
available consultations on my website.
Mike has no tan coupon will apply if you
want me to battle
the description because I got more
shackles that way.
>> For people for people that have certain biomechanics,
biomechanics,
I frequently will have them start with
an isolation movement, right? Like for
chest, I'll have them do a pec deck
first for a couple sets to pre- fatigue
the pecs and then they'll do a chest
press movement as a secondary chest
movement. So now the triceps rather than
limiting their chest stimulus allow them
to get a better chest stimulus because
now they're helping rather than pull
them back. So yeah, a chest press uh
deadlifts there is no nothing really
replaces the deadlift. Just don't do it.
Just pick something better that actually
trains a target muscle rather than
everything. There is no everything
muscle. Bend over rows. Any chest
supported row. literally any chess support.
support.
>> I guess one other count I think I've
I've asked this before, but you know,
wouldn't the logical response to the
claim that if something if a movement
trains everything, it trains nothing be
well? No. Doesn't that just mean it
trains everything? If it trains
everything, it trains everything.
>> But it can't but it can't in involving
so many muscles, there is no guarantee
of what which one or any multiple of
those muscles will actually get a
stimulus. That's my point is that
>> Good. Good.
>> We are talking about we have to take a
target muscle to a given level of
proximity to failure to get the
recruitment mechanical work effective
reps blah blah blah blah blah. We don't
know in in an exercise involving that
many muscle groups when you hit two reps
in reserve. We don't know what muscle
was at two. We don't know what any of
the other muscles were at. Maybe they
were at a place that got a stimulus.
Maybe they weren't. We don't know.
Whereas in relatively more stable
movements that are relatively more
isolation, right? Compound isolation is
a continuum. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And here's something that I find
interesting among the physique intelligencia.
intelligencia.
They will make this big deal about how
all the unstable exercises, all the dumb
bosu ball stuff and functional nonsense
and all that just kind of gone away but
was a big thing in the 2000s. Oh, those
exercises are bad for hypertrophy
because the instability
limits the stimulus to the target muscle.
muscle.
Okay, why does that not hold to a degree
for squats? But what they do is they go,
okay, here's the continuum. Leg
extensions, leg press, hack squat,
pendum squat, back squat, split squat or
lunge, one-legged squat on the Bosu
ball. Here's the continuum, right? And
they go, "Well, this is dumb." They draw
their line exactly on the side of what
they like. They go, "Well, squats are
stableish enough." And yes, they are
more stable. I'm not saying they're not,
but they're still less stable than a
pendulum squat. They're less stable than
a hack squat.
Where is the line? The line is whatever
makes them right.
And I'm just saying that you need to
consider the continuum
that in many cases except in the
statement of hypertrophy.
Probably the best argument I ever saw
this was on my website years ago. I
wrote a piece called leg pressing for
big legs. And I made basically this
argument. For the majority of people, a
leg press took the low back upper back
stability would be a better exercise for
quad growth than the back squat.
some true rocket surgeon
brain scientist put in the comments,
"It's clear Lion McDonald knows nothing
about training because the lack of
stabilizer involvement in the leg press
means there will be a lower growth
hormone response." And folks, you cannot
make that up because clearly involving
the hip external rotators, the glutius
minimus, the opterator extern is crucial
to the overall growth response of
squats. Seriously, dumb as dumb as
sheep. Okay,
>> I put that continuum argument to you
last time we talked about exercise
selection in our
>> highintensity training podcast and you like
like
>> press the overhead press. Honestly,
properly done lateral raise, properly
done upright row, your medial delts will
explode. I guarantee it because I've had
people do this for a decade. who have
finally abandoned the overhead press,
done a lateral raise and or upright row
or both in the way that I teach them and
their medial delts exploded. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> The only regrets if anything is a front
delt exercise because the those medial
delts are on the back of the shoulder
when you do that movement anyway. It's
got all this technical stuffing around
the face, serrus anterior fails. Yeah,
there's some guys that are always built
really well for that movement. that get
a lot out of the overhead press, but
they're always built a certain way.
Somebody with long arms who's having to
just get they're never going to get more
than 40 kilos on the bar. They go to a
lateral raise and take that exercise to
two. I know what got trained. They do a
proper upright row. I know what got
trained. Which leads me to my got in an
argument with someone years ago. They
were like, this is back when upright
rows were the horror exercise. No one
should ever do upright rows.
>> Jeff Cavalier. Yeah, this is long before
him. This is back in NFW days.
>> He at least spread it to probably more
>> than around since long before that. I
used to think that too till I got
better. And yes, because internally rotated
rotated
uh for God's sakes, this position can
cause an impingement. No doubt. That's
been around for decades. And if you do
an upright row right row that way, yes,
you you can get an impingement and
that's fine. And they were like, 'Well,
here's why the upright row is dangerous.
I said, 'Okay, hit me.' They go, 'Well,
most people do it wrong. I go, that's
non-discriminatory for the upright row.
People do every exercise wrong. I've
seen people screw up wrist curls, right?
Saying people do it wrong is not an argument,
argument,
right? And there were a couple others. I
said, "Okay, so let me get this
straight. You're telling me that you
think the upright row is a problematic
movement, but you recommend squat,
bench, and deadlift to everyone because
those movements are never done
incorrectly in the weight room and have
no risk of Are you kidding me? Are you I
had someone in my group do that
recently. They tried to make the
argument that because of that slight
internal rotation, there was a slight
risk of impingement and then they were
like something came up and they were
like, "Oh yeah, rugy's a great sport."
I'm like, "So, let me get this straight.
loud is rugby is fine.
>> Cool. Cool story, bro. Let's just draw
this the dumbest line in the sand I've ever
ever
>> I guess uh just to steal man that
argument, you could say there may be
nothing inherently wrong with a properly
executed squat, bench, or deadlift.
Whereas there is something inherently wrong
wrong
>> mechanically with the up. Well, yeah,
but uh that that would be this because
of the impingement risk because of the
internal rotation. There's not if you do
it properly. That's my point. Do it
properly, there is no impingement risk.
>> There's also Do you want to like stand
up and demonstrate a properly executed
upright, Ro?
>> Yeah, but I got a peep first. I also
pointed out this guy in the rehab world,
>> It's called the empty can exercise. They
literally do a lateral raise in internal
rotation. Well, guess what? That's all
an upright row is. So, I just told the
guy to get that. I go, "You know what?
Clearly done in a controlled proper way.
This is fine.
>> It's a matter of when it's done
incorrectly." All right. The upright.
>> Let's go and get this out of the way. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So, the way people used to do upright
rows way back in the day,
>> don't know. All right. Take a bar,
narrow grip,
and then you do that. >> Right.
>> Right.
>> Right. Elbows high all the way up far of
the chin. Now that is absolutely an
impingement waiting to happen.
Internally rotated in horizontal abduction.
abduction.
I don't disagree.
Well, that's not how I teach an upright rope.
There couple well there are few but
there are a few components to this and I
do the same thing with lateral raises
which I'll demonstrate next. Number
one, right? So you're not pulling this
way. Number one, your upper arm, the
humorris, your other funny bone
should stay in what's called this the
midscapular plane, right? It shouldn't
it's not directly the side. It's not
it's not
>> not here.
>> This is the midscap plane. Not
>> like a 40 Yeah. 30 degree angle.
>> Somewhere that right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> So the other arms are moving to here.
Yeah. So, your hands are slightly out in
front of you. You're not like dragging
them out in front of your body. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And
>> And
>> you're not dragging against your body,
>> right? The reason for that is twofold.
One is that it keeps the medial delt on
actually on top of the shoulder. But if
you're doing here, the medial delts want
to go back, but also the rotator cuff
is better able to stabilize the shoulder
joint in the midscap plane.
But importantly,
you don't pull any higher than that
part of the sternum. Once your once your
upper arm is here, going higher is not
more del. It's just more impending.
>> Yeah. So where your humorous is
basically parallel with the floor.
>> Yeah. And I teach lateral raise exactly
the same, right? Most people do well
people do lateral raises all kinds of
terrible ways but the typical way is
what it's that medial delta is on the
back of the shoulder right now
whereas a and also you lean forward slightly
the medial delta is directly on top of
my shoulder
>> pole is exactly with the weight same
thing here lean forward at like 15
degrees that's a lateral raise midscap
plane medial delt
Now, if you look at this part of my arm,
right, upright row, sorry, lateral
raise, upright row, it's doing the same thing.
thing.
>> It's just a matter because you're
Now, with the upright row, the only
thing I'd add for anybody that wants to
try it this way, the big issue is that
with like a bar, the wrists get a little
bit kinkedked,
right? You can see that they're a little
bit twisted here. couple ways around
that. Um, one, you can use dumbbells
which let you, you know, spread your
hands apart. I suppose you could use a
wide I don't know. I've never done it
that way, but you could use like a wider
grip. Usually what works best is to use
a tricep rope on a low cable because it
lets you let your hands come apart when
that. >> Nice.
>> Nice.
>> The number of people I have known
>> a quasi lateral raise. I mean,
>> that's how to think of it in general.
>> It's just like I said, well, I mean,
look, most of his movements I put I
mentioned that in my group and someone
was like, you know, what is what does an
upright row do that a lateral raise,
isn't it? He's like, isn't just a
lateral raise with an arm bend? I go,
well, isn't a bench press just a pec
deck with an arm bend? Isn't a cable
shrug back with an arm bend?
>> I mean, it is like, okay, for anybody
listening to this, let me go ahead and
teach you how to bench with your pecs. I
can do it in 10 seconds.
Anybody watching this, I want you to go
to to go through this with me. All
right. What do the pecs do? The pecs are
here. Predominantly, they aduck the humorus.
humorus. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. They pull the they pull the upper
arm across the body. Right. Peck table crossover.
crossover.
Now watch the upper part of my arm. Pe deck
deck
bench press. It's doing the same thing.
The difference being that my elbow is bending.
bending.
So what happens is a lot of people
because they bench like I don't feel my
chest because they think of the bench
press as a push push
push >> triceps
for hypertrophy. Think of the bench
press or any chest press as a pull. You
are using the pecs to pull the upper arm
across the body.
That make sense? Pec deck, you're
pulling the upper arm across the body.
Chest press, pulling your arm will
straighten. I promise you, if you are
doing a barbell bench press or a
dumbbell bench press or a machine cast
chest press, if you think about pulling
your upper arm across the body, your
elbows will straighten and you will
actually use your palms. Solomon, I can
teach it to you. Roll your camera down a
little bit so people can see what you're
doing. Okay,
>> hang on. How about now? Yep. Take one
hand, put it on the opposite pec. Okay.
Raise your arm to the side. Now do a pe
do like a cable crossover pec deck
movement. Right. And you should feel
your pec kind of expand into your into
your hand, right? You can feel it kind
of pump up, right? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Do that a few times.
Okay. Now, bend the elbow
and bench press. And think about pulling
the pecs. Pull the upper arm across.
That's how you bench with the pecs. And
I think that's why a lot of people find
that they're like, "Oh, yeah. I don't
feel flat bench in my chest, but I feel
dumbbells better." Because dumbbells,
the nature of it allows you to do what?
To bring them in at the top. A lot of
those stupid functional chest machines
do the same thing. They started putting
it on angled handles. So they started
wide and they kind of forced you to
think about pushing
in instead of straight away. But I just
teach it with technique. You do that on
a chest press, you'll get way more out
of your ps than you ever did. Cool.
>> So So yeah. So like I said, the number
of people I know who toiled with the
overhead press for nothing as soon as
they switched
to uh they're not even even done
properly. Some people's shoulders do not
like lateral raises and that's fine.
Just do or sorry that do not like
upright rows for whatever reason. Some
people just don't have the the scapular
control the rotator cuff control and
that's fine. Properly done lateral raise
I guarantee you
with your slight forward lean upper arm
and the midscap plane. If you go look I
guarantee you Jeff Nippford has a video
where he demonstrates exactly what I
just showed. The difference being that
I've been teaching it that way for 20 years.
years. >> Cool.
>> Cool.
>> So that's what I would pick instead of
the big five.
>> Any lower body movement that takes the
low back, the upper back, and the knee.
Like look, even a Smith machine squat
>> where you can set your biomechanics,
right? Because if you have a long, if
you have long femurss, the problem is
that to maintain the bar over your
center of gravity, you have to be very
bent over. Now, you can do it because
you've got, you know, a wedge and you
can get yourself to a or upright
position. Not everyone has that on a
Smith machine because you don't have you
can you can start here and kind of
you're almost leaning back into the bar.
put your feet on your your heels on
plates or board or whatever. And you can
actually do because you're not going to
tip ass over teacettle like you you
can't do that with a barbell, right?
Like you can't you can't stand to that
position with a barbell because you tip
over. Even a Smith machine back squat
for people with bad levers, you'll get
more out of your quad because you can
set it up so that quads are going to be
what limits you to two reps in reserve
or hack squat or pendulum squat or quad
dominant leg press, which if it has a
problem, it's usually the range of
motion is very limited. You don't get as
much knee flexion or leg extensions. And
so that's that's lower body. Um, the
chest press, we already talked about
rows. Any chest supported row just to
take the low back out of it
will be a better choice. Whether it's a
hammer machine, a T- bar row, cable rows
are fine. They tend to they can be low
back limiting. Um, I would generally
prefer a chest supportive row if it's
available, but cable row. But again,
it's because you're also and you're not
standing up and you've got and like I
said, we already talked about shoulders.
So, like anybody listening to this, just
try it. try for the next six weeks,
report back. I love being told that I'm
right. So, there you go. That's the big
five. Like I said, I I generally, if I
was gonna try like train someone for
bodybuilding explicitly and we had
access to the equipment, I don't think
at this point in my career, I wouldn't
even teach them to do barbell movements.
I'd just start them on machines.
>> Yeah. And not even I mean why what what
I mean younger me probably wouldn't have
taken that like at this point in my
career like why what
>> I guess a lot of people actually just
like him keeps them coming back to the gym
gym
>> and that's right and that's fine and
look I'll pander as much as anyone else
if I have to and like also again this
goes to like the fact that I don't hate
the squat I don't it's people aren't
built for it a lot of people I cons
consult with they're like look I still
enjoy back squatting for whatever reason
or even deadlifting and that's great. I
tell them to keep it in as a movement
rather than as a lift if that makes any
sense. though
simply because if they don't have good
levers for it and also trust me folks as
you get older and I am old trust me
it will wear you out
as a official member of the old fart
club in my gym the grand majority of
guys they always want to talk about the
good old days which I don't care about I
don't care how much they benched in high
school I don't I just want to train and
leave every single one of them almost
without fail like yeah when I quit
trying to back squat heavy that's when I
got my back because I don't hurt all the
time. There is a with with with
>> with doage comes not only decrepitude
but sometimes wisdom or at least you
learn not you or at least you learn not
to do so much stupid crap. But with
people that I've consulted with that
want to maintain those movements, but
usually they have hypertrophy or
whatever as a goal, I'm like, look,
fine. Use that as a movement. Meaning,
do a couple warm-ups. Do two sets of
five to the first bar speed slowing.
Maybe that's an ARM.
Stop. That's it. I would also ask,
again, this is for folks as they get,
how big of a squat do you effing need?
Right? If you're 40 and you're not a
competitive powerlter and you think you
need to have a 200 kilo squat, I would
ask you for what,
assuming you can do it. How strong do
you need to be as a non-competitive lifter
lifter
in a movement that can absolutely wreck
the rest of your life as something?
Because trust me,
>> I mean, even in a competitive lifter,
you can ask the same question at your
sort of age. Why?
>> Well, I mean, fine, look, some people
are are still highly competitive at that
age. And that's fine. But if you're just
like Genpop Wreck lifter, how big of a
squat do you need for your daily functional activities? Like even before
functional activities? Like even before my before my hip crapped out and I was
my before my hip crapped out and I was still squatting, I'm like whatever. I
still squatting, I'm like whatever. I was doing I don't know 185 for two sets
was doing I don't know 185 for two sets of eight like I'm pretty broke between
of eight like I'm pretty broke between the broken the leg I broke a bunch of
the broken the leg I broke a bunch of years ago. My ankle doesn't move the way
years ago. My ankle doesn't move the way it used to and now I've got arthritis in
it used to and now I've got arthritis in my hip. I don't bend that way anymore. I
my hip. I don't bend that way anymore. I basically train to stay in mostly one
basically train to stay in mostly one piece. But even when I was, I'm like, h
piece. But even when I was, I'm like, h how like, yeah, there's that part of me
how like, yeah, there's that part of me because I'm a dumb dude. It's like,
because I'm a dumb dude. It's like, dude, you used to squat so much more
dude, you used to squat so much more than this. Just add five pounds. Just
than this. Just add five pounds. Just just get back to 225. And I would add
just get back to 225. And I would add weight and everything would hurt again.
weight and everything would hurt again. I'm like, yeah, don't.
I'm like, yeah, don't. >> By the way, when I asked why earlier, I
>> By the way, when I asked why earlier, I didn't mean that condescendingly. I just
didn't mean that condescendingly. I just meant it is a question we should
meant it is a question we should be asking. But it is a question.
be asking. But it is a question. >> Why do we want to lift these really
>> Why do we want to lift these really really heavy weights,
really heavy weights, >> right? Unless you are competing in
>> right? Unless you are competing in something like you genuinely need to ask
something like you genuinely need to ask >> and even then I think it's a good
>> and even then I think it's a good question to ask.
question to ask. >> Well, but I mean look, if you're a
>> Well, but I mean look, if you're a competitive powerlter, sure, you got to
competitive powerlter, sure, you got to keep doing it. And guess what? Most of
keep doing it. And guess what? Most of those guys are busted when they get
those guys are busted when they get older. I trust me, especially squats
older. I trust me, especially squats more so than anything. I I've been I
more so than anything. I I've been I took Sumi to a master's knee early in
took Sumi to a master's knee early in her career and man the old man knees it
her career and man the old man knees it takes takes you an hour to just be able
takes takes you an hour to just be able to hit that to warm that stuff up when
to hit that to warm that stuff up when your knees start to a lot of those guys
your knees start to a lot of those guys go to push pull but yeah it's just like
go to push pull but yeah it's just like even like I said competition is
even like I said competition is different it's not meant to be healthy
different it's not meant to be healthy but if you're like looking at longevity
but if you're like looking at longevity trust me eventually it will catch up
trust me eventually it will catch up with unless you're just built perfectly
with unless you're just built perfectly for it and I get really lucky um and
for it and I get really lucky um and which can probably lead into you've got
which can probably lead into you've got a we've got a question you want to But
a we've got a question you want to But you're like, "How to avoid injury in,
you're like, "How to avoid injury in, you know, in the in the weight room."
you know, in the in the weight room." But sort of to sum all this up, it's
But sort of to sum all this up, it's like, yeah, he really must squat. If
like, yeah, he really must squat. If you're just like, I
you're just like, I don't feel right if I don't back. And
don't feel right if I don't back. And again, I get it. I do. If I weren't
again, I get it. I do. If I weren't injured, I would probably do back
injured, I would probably do back squats. But I was built for them. And I
squats. But I was built for them. And I I did I was
I did I was >> You enjoy them, too.
>> You enjoy them, too. >> I did enjoy them. I did. And trust me, I
>> I did enjoy them. I did. And trust me, I did. And listen, I mean, I've done 20
did. And listen, I mean, I've done 20 rep squats. I've done sets of 50 in the
rep squats. I've done sets of 50 in the back squat. I trust me, if it can be
back squat. I trust me, if it can be done, I've done it. But I was good as
done, I've done it. But I was good as built for it.
built for it. >> Gross.
>> Gross. >> Um yeah, that was a that was a gross
>> Um yeah, that was a that was a gross workout. I wouldn't recommend that. Um
workout. I wouldn't recommend that. Um but yeah, I've done it. So, um
but yeah, I've done it. So, um >> but I would just do it as a lift. I
>> but I would just do it as a lift. I would do it work up a couple moderate
would do it work up a couple moderate sets, keep my brain happy, keep my
sets, keep my brain happy, keep my macho, you know, and then I would go do
macho, you know, and then I would go do the real work on machines
the real work on machines where I can actually just train the
where I can actually just train the target muscle and not have to worry
target muscle and not have to worry about any of any of the stuff that goes
about any of any of the stuff that goes along with that.
along with that. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um because again, it's like so there was
>> Um because again, it's like so there was a there was a I mean, I've been saying
a there was a I mean, I've been saying this for years and of course I was like,
this for years and of course I was like, "Oh, you're stupid. You suck. Lol." And
"Oh, you're stupid. You suck. Lol." And I'm like, but there was like three or
I'm like, but there was like three or four years ago, I think the winner of
four years ago, I think the winner of the world's strongest man came out and
the world's strongest man came out and said the average person has no business
said the average person has no business deadlifting because the risk to reward
deadlifting because the risk to reward >> that was
>> that was ost.
ost. >> Yeah, I'm Joe Rogan.
>> Yeah, I'm Joe Rogan. >> Right. It's easy for me for my dumbass
>> Right. It's easy for me for my dumbass to come out and say it, but this guy's a
to come out and say it, but this guy's a strong and he's like, "Yes, the average
strong and he's like, "Yes, the average person has no business doing a
person has no business doing a conventional double because the
conventional double because the riskto-reward is so poor or so high. The
riskto-reward is so poor or so high. The benefits now trap bar deadlift, that's a
benefits now trap bar deadlift, that's a very different animal, right? That's a
very different animal, right? That's a completely different thing. That is a
completely different thing. That is a desperately underrated movement that
desperately underrated movement that >> I I don't know if I would agree. I think
>> I I don't know if I would agree. I think arguing it's a net cost is a step too
arguing it's a net cost is a step too far. Like if you take an average
far. Like if you take an average sedentary person and teach them how to
sedentary person and teach them how to deadlift properly, you know, with
deadlift properly, you know, with instructions
instructions so that they're not rounding at the low
so that they're not rounding at the low back, I think it would probably do more
back, I think it would probably do more good than harm just to strengthen their
good than harm just to strengthen their low back. Like if you got some person
low back. Like if you got some person with back pain, you know,
with back pain, you know, >> okay, two things. One, there are better
>> okay, two things. One, there are better ways to strengthen the low back. And
ways to strengthen the low back. And this is going to sound really
this is going to sound really condescending and it it kind of is, but
condescending and it it kind of is, but it's not meant to be. You say that as
it's not meant to be. You say that as someone who has never coached someone in
someone who has never coached someone in the weight room.
the weight room. >> That's not true. But
>> That's not true. But >> well, but if you but unless you're
>> well, but if you but unless you're coaching someone hands-on day after day
coaching someone hands-on day after day after day,
after day, >> they will f up the deadlift. They will f
>> they will f up the deadlift. They will f up the squat. They will.
up the squat. They will. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And you can go into any It's Look, and
>> And you can go into any It's Look, and this is where this is something where
this is where this is something where people really do forget. The way I coach
people really do forget. The way I coach someone in person is completely
someone in person is completely different than what I do if I'm writing
different than what I do if I'm writing a program up. I can do things if I'm
a program up. I can do things if I'm watching them every day. Whit forgets
watching them every day. Whit forgets this. It's one thing for him to be
this. It's one thing for him to be teaching these movements under the
teaching these movements under the watchful eye of an instructor every
watchful eye of an instructor every single day. You can get away with stuff.
single day. You can get away with stuff. If I have three sessions with someone,
If I have three sessions with someone, which is common when you're a general
which is common when you're a general personal trainer, you ain't teaching
personal trainer, you ain't teaching someone a proper deadlift in that amount
someone a proper deadlift in that amount of time that can be done safely. Period.
of time that can be done safely. Period. You can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm not
You can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm not because I've I've tried. It cannot be
because I've I've tried. It cannot be done.
done. >> And that's and that's the problem.
>> And that's and that's the problem. Even it you cannot get them to even
Even it you cannot get them to even basic technical competency
basic technical competency on that complicated of a movement and
on that complicated of a movement and have them be able to do it safely and
have them be able to do it safely and progressively ever. Whereas I can teach
progressively ever. Whereas I can teach someone something simpler in 10 minutes.
someone something simpler in 10 minutes. And there are better ways to strengthen
And there are better ways to strengthen the low back because I've seen that
the low back because I've seen that argument. Oh yeah, when I, you know, I
argument. Oh yeah, when I, you know, I had someone training me every day and
had someone training me every day and taught me a conventional deadlift. My
taught me a conventional deadlift. My low back feels better. Yeah, great.
low back feels better. Yeah, great. Because you had a hands-on trainer every
Because you had a hands-on trainer every day. That's not That's the problem. And
day. That's not That's the problem. And I did an entire video about this on my
I did an entire video about this on my channel. There's a different which I
channel. There's a different which I will never update again just so people
will never update again just so people realize and I talked about it was
realize and I talked about it was coached versus uncoached training
coached versus uncoached training because you can do totally different
because you can do totally different things.
things. >> Yeah, that was a good idea.
>> Yeah, that was a good idea. >> The stuff that I got away with Sunumi, I
>> The stuff that I got away with Sunumi, I could never do writing of a program for
could never do writing of a program for someone.
someone. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Because
>> Because >> I can't be there. I can't see it. I
>> I can't be there. I can't see it. I cannot give them the heristics that I
cannot give them the heristics that I would use on a day-to-day basis. So
would use on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, I would agree with you if you can
yeah, I would agree with you if you can try if you can coach them day every day
try if you can coach them day every day in the gym
in the gym >> or even just to the point where they can
>> or even just to the point where they can do it properly. So
do it properly. So >> right, but how many Right. But how many
>> right, but how many Right. But how many sessions is that going to take? The
sessions is that going to take? The average person isn't going to doesn't
average person isn't going to doesn't have it.
have it. >> I guess you know for the listeners of
>> I guess you know for the listeners of our podcast, there would be numerous
our podcast, there would be numerous folks willing to put in that kind of
folks willing to put in that kind of effort, but we tend to attract a more
effort, but we tend to attract a more serious audience.
serious audience. >> This is not Yeah. Look, I spent a decade
>> This is not Yeah. Look, I spent a decade studying every aspect because I wanted
studying every aspect because I wanted to know for my own lifting even before I
to know for my own lifting even before I got into this in any sort of
got into this in any sort of professional way because that was my
professional way because that was my obsession. We're talking about Genpop,
obsession. We're talking about Genpop, dude. Everyone likes to whine about
dude. Everyone likes to whine about Planet Fitness doesn't let people squat
Planet Fitness doesn't let people squat and deadlift. I'm like, have you ever
and deadlift. I'm like, have you ever watched the average person squat and
watched the average person squat and deadlift in a commercial gym? It's an
deadlift in a commercial gym? It's an absolute tragedy.
absolute tragedy. So yes, as a global statement, maybe
So yes, as a global statement, maybe he's not correct. But in the aggregate,
he's not correct. But in the aggregate, for the general population who can
for the general population who can barely focus on a machine bicep curl
barely focus on a machine bicep curl because they're too busy on their phone,
because they're too busy on their phone, they have no business deadlifting.
they have no business deadlifting. >> They have no business back squatting.
>> They have no business back squatting. They have no business doing any of those
They have no business doing any of those movements. Honestly, considering that
movements. Honestly, considering that they spend 90% of their training time on
they spend 90% of their training time on their phone, they should just go for a
their phone, they should just go for a nice walk because they're not
nice walk because they're not accomplishing anything in the weight
accomplishing anything in the weight room except annoying me by sitting on
room except annoying me by sitting on equipment that I want to use for 10
equipment that I want to use for 10 minutes while they look at their phone
minutes while they look at their phone during the set.
during the set. >> They do not. Sorry, general population.
>> They do not. Sorry, general population. >> You are spot on. I If I go into a
>> You are spot on. I If I go into a commercial gym, the average person
commercial gym, the average person performing a barbell movement has no
performing a barbell movement has no clue
clue >> and no business doing it.
>> and no business doing it. >> Yeah. Um, it was really it was really
>> Yeah. Um, it was really it was really funny. This is someone I coached many
funny. This is someone I coached many many years ago and their technique on
many years ago and their technique on everything
everything everything except the RDL was atrocious
everything except the RDL was atrocious because they were modeling they'd
because they were modeling they'd learned the RDL watching someone online
learned the RDL watching someone online doing it properly and they'd learned
doing it properly and they'd learned every other movement by watching people
every other movement by watching people at their gym do it. It's better now.
at their gym do it. It's better now. Back in the day, if I was in a
Back in the day, if I was in a commercial gym and saw someone
commercial gym and saw someone squatting, well,
squatting, well, it was such a rare occurrence. I would
it was such a rare occurrence. I would always go ask them. I go,
always go ask them. I go, >> "You used to Olympic 99 times out of
>> "You used to Olympic 99 times out of 100, they were Olympic lifters." You can
100, they were Olympic lifters." You can tell. I can tell an Olympic lifter
tell. I can tell an Olympic lifter like that.
like that. >> It's actually really funny. I've
>> It's actually really funny. I've squatted in commercial gyms in the past
squatted in commercial gyms in the past and been asked the same question.
and been asked the same question. >> You an Olympic lifter?
>> You an Olympic lifter? >> You're an exception. Right now it's a
>> You're an exception. Right now it's a little bit better because as as bad as
little bit better because as as bad as so as much as social media has made
so as much as social media has made things worse at least there is good
things worse at least there is good people I have noticed that people I'm
people I have noticed that people I'm seeing proportionally by which I mean
seeing proportionally by which I mean two out of every 10 instead of one out
two out of every 10 instead of one out of every 50 squat that might actually be
of every 50 squat that might actually be decent
decent maybe but it's still not the norm.
maybe but it's still not the norm. Usually you see the same crapastic half
Usually you see the same crapastic half squat, knees in, up on the toes BS that
squat, knees in, up on the toes BS that I've seen for 30 years. Most people have
I've seen for 30 years. Most people have no business doing these movements. And
no business doing these movements. And the deadlift is even potentially worse
the deadlift is even potentially worse because if you do something wrong on the
because if you do something wrong on the deadlift, which is very, very easy,
deadlift, which is very, very easy, things go bad. At least the bar doesn't
things go bad. At least the bar doesn't fall on you. But if you get a low back
fall on you. But if you get a low back injury, you're done.
injury, you're done. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And and that that
>> Yeah. Absolutely. And and that that holds even for trained lifters because
holds even for trained lifters because the temptation to add weight to the bar,
the temptation to add weight to the bar, even if you know how to perform the
even if you know how to perform the deadlift properly, can lead you to
deadlift properly, can lead you to perform it improperly by chasing PRs,
perform it improperly by chasing PRs, >> you know.
>> you know. >> Um, yes. Yes, absolutely. Um, which is
>> Um, yes. Yes, absolutely. Um, which is also potentially true, I suppose. But
also potentially true, I suppose. But again, something goes all right on a
again, something goes all right on a machine chest press. It doesn't go that.
machine chest press. It doesn't go that. >> Yeah. Nothing's happening. Yeah.
