0:07 Hello.
0:08 >> How you doing? >> Good.
0:08 >> Good.
0:10 >> Exciting stuff going on.
0:14 >> Joining us very exciting stuff today. Um
0:16 we announced today that allo tokenized
0:17 stocks and ETFs >> huge
0:18 >> huge
0:21 >> are live in MetaMask. Um what do you
0:24 think that means for you and for the you
0:26 know millions of people across markets
0:28 that can now finally access these
0:30 instruments alongside crypto?
0:35 >> Uh it's a game changer. It's uh um
0:39 self-custodied access to uh instruments
0:41 that most people around the world um
0:44 haven't normally had access to. Um so
0:48 what you've been doing is um tokenizing
0:51 real world assets and uh um tokenized
0:54 real world assets are now added to the
0:57 natively tokenized assets and all
1:02 accessible uh through MetaMask and uh um
1:05 uh the kinds of assets uh or the way
1:08 that you've been doing it is uh is
1:11 essentially a harbinger of how global
1:13 finance is going to be moving. uh you've
1:16 done some some great things uh you know
1:20 normally uh accessing equities involves
1:24 T+1 T+2 settlement um you've done
1:27 realtime settlement um that's a gamecher
1:30 for the velocity of an economy uh and
1:34 for um the ability of an individual to
1:36 um create some value in some sort of
1:39 trade uh with their asset and uh and
1:42 then have it instantly available um to
1:45 do something else uh that's of value
1:48 rather than losing access essentially to
1:52 uh to your asset for a day or two. Um uh enabling
1:53 enabling
1:58 access to trade um 245
2:03 uh for the full work week. Um enable uh
2:05 permissionless access to to move the
2:09 tokens around uh anywhere 247 365.
2:12 Again, a gamecher uh represents real
2:15 real freedom and agency, financial
2:18 agency for people. Uh ability to to use
2:21 these tokens as collateral uh to borrow
2:23 against or in other kinds of situations
2:27 to provide liquidity uh into dexes in
2:29 different situations to to participate
2:33 in in vaults or or other sorts of uh
2:37 portfolio constructions. uh participate
2:41 uh uh with full composability um in
2:44 DeFi. Um so congratulations to you and
2:47 uh uh and we are uh absolutely delighted
2:50 to be able to offer this to uh um to
2:51 people around the world through MetaMask.
2:52 MetaMask.
2:53 >> Yeah. No, it's been a it's been a
2:54 pleasure working with you guys as well
2:56 and we share the excitement of really
2:58 enabling these assets in a fully
3:00 self-custodial manner to have these
3:02 assets also work in DeFi. I think a lot
3:06 of uh platforms out there are actually
3:08 not ready for what that really means in
3:10 terms of access and how financial
3:12 services would work down the line. But
3:14 tell me a little bit what does that mean
3:17 for MetaMask specifically to have all
3:20 these a assets live on the same rails?
3:23 >> Um so it's it's part of the direction
3:25 that we've been going in uh for quite a
3:28 while. Um uh again it's about uh
3:31 empowering users and communities to have
3:34 permissionless access to and control
3:37 over their own assets. Uh I don't know
3:39 about you, but I've walked into a bank
3:42 and I've been denied access to my money
3:44 at times when I asked for maybe more
3:47 than $3,000. It was a few years ago.
3:48 Maybe they've gotten a little better and
3:51 $3,000 isn't isn't what it used to be.
3:52 Um [snorts]
3:58 uh but uh um MetaMask has been um
4:02 releasing um features and capabilities
4:06 um at a rapid pace recently. Uh so we've
4:09 uh we provided uh access to to
4:12 hyperlquid perpetual futures to equity
4:16 per uh to polyarket prediction markets.
4:20 Um uh all of these instruments are um
4:22 accessible uh within the safe confines
4:24 of your MetaMask. You don't need to to
4:27 move tokens to a centralized exchange or
4:30 or explicitly bridge uh to to some
4:33 network to access uh um those exciting
4:36 instruments. Um we've been rolling out
4:39 uh our MetaMask debit card uh globally.
4:44 Um, and that's a that's a gamecher also
4:46 in the sense that in instead of um
4:49 taking your paycheck uh and moving it
4:51 into your bank account so that you can
4:54 make use of your your debit card um to
4:55 pay for things in your life, you can
4:59 actually move your capital uh into an
5:03 account uh on Lineia and then you can
5:05 move all your capital into DeFi. Um, and
5:08 if you're going out and paying for
5:10 dinner uh on a Tuesday uh on that
5:13 particular Tuesday, right at that time,
5:15 uh you're paying um on the global
5:17 Mastercard network and and some of your
5:21 capital moves out of DeFi um to
5:23 essentially pay uh and so instead of the
5:26 the bank earning yield on your back, uh
5:27 you're you're earning yield on your
5:32 money. Um, and so, uh, MetaMask, uh, uh,
5:35 USD, our stable coin is is also rolling
5:36 out globally. We're we're very excited
5:38 about that. We've got a rewards program
5:41 which, uh, has just kicked off to, to
5:45 bring people, uh, into our world, um, in
5:49 more diverse ways. So, um, MetaMask is
5:51 firing on all cylinders and now it's
5:54 firing on the ono global markets.
5:55 >> I love that. No, you guys have
5:56 definitely shipped a lot and I think
5:58 MetaMask is one of those prime examples
6:00 that is turning more and more into an
6:01 everything app. There's been a lot of
6:03 talk about the everything app. A big
6:05 push even in the US to enable some of
6:07 that. But you know, MetaMask right now I
6:08 think is living proof that those things
6:11 are becoming increasingly possible on
6:13 chain. You mentioned um that these
6:15 things are also available in a
6:18 self-custodial matter, right? And you
6:20 know some other tokenized products are
6:23 not exactly like that. Why in your
6:25 opinion does the whole concept of
6:27 self-custody and being able to
6:29 self-custody these tokenized stocks and
6:31 ETFs matter in the first place?
6:33 >> Yeah, so MetaMaski is is moving towards
6:36 being a uh a fullervice
6:40 um essentially a neo bankank um in your
6:43 pocket or on on your mobile or or on
6:47 your laptop. Um it uh it's a different
6:49 kind of neo bank. It's Neo Bank that
6:52 enables you to to be um fully in control
6:54 of your assets. And why is it important
6:58 to um have self-custody of your assets
7:01 uh in a a country like this? Um you
7:04 don't really need that uh except when
7:07 the hits the fan. Uh and uh um some
7:11 sort of crisis happens. Um maybe that
7:12 doesn't happen in the United States.
7:13 Let's hope it doesn't happen in the
7:15 United States or or major Western
7:17 countries. But uh a few years ago in
7:20 Greece uh for instance uh there there
7:22 was a bit of a financial crisis there
7:25 and uh austerity uh was implemented and
7:27 uh essentially a lot of people had their
7:30 their bank accounts haircut uh by a very
7:32 significant percent. So you're you wake
7:35 up one morning and you have a lot less
7:37 money uh than you thought you did and
7:40 and that's it's a very civilized country
7:42 [snorts] and uh uh it can happen
7:45 anywhere in the world. Uh and so um
7:50 having full control of uh your assets uh
7:52 in a way that you know you don't have to
7:54 ask for permission uh in a way that a
7:59 government can't uh simply um by fiat uh
8:03 just uh um destroy value or extract
8:05 value from you. That is incredibly
8:07 important. Um there are a lot more
8:09 challenged nations in the world. Um
8:12 there's a lot of crazy stuff going on uh
8:16 currently. Um there are situations where
8:18 where women's rights aren't well
8:21 protected and uh a woman can uh earn
8:23 money and take it home and uh that money
8:25 isn't necessarily safe from family
8:28 members or community members. Um it is
8:32 safe um if that money is uh stored in a
8:35 meta mask and uh and the family members
8:37 don't don't have access uh to that meta
8:42 mask. um in nations uh run by tyrants uh
8:45 who financially exploit um their
8:48 citizens and financially repress their
8:52 citizens when um when the debt gets too
8:55 large and inflation gets very high. um
8:58 having access to
9:01 um stable coins uh or even better having
9:04 access to financial instruments uh
9:07 available to Americans or or to citizens
9:10 in Western nations that don't just hold
9:12 their store hold their value as a good
9:14 store of value but represent the
9:18 potential to to grow over time um uh as
9:19 the American economy grows. That's
9:22 that's a total game changer. So um you
9:25 can be protected uh from your tyrant.
9:27 Your tyrant can be weakened because the
9:30 tyrant isn't able to exploit you anymore
9:34 and you can potentially um access sort
9:36 of aspects of the American dream. You
9:40 can buy some Apple stock or some Google
9:42 stock and uh ideally that grows and
9:45 ideally that gives you the ability to to
9:48 do something more empowering with your life.
9:48 life.
9:50 >> No, I I fully agree. One of the key
9:52 themes that we keep on hitting on atondo
9:54 at least is this concept of access
9:57 access to use any financial product
10:00 whenever you wanted wherever you wanted
10:02 and being able to have these assets in a
10:04 self-custodial fashion in a
10:05 permissionless fashion and being the
10:07 hold them in a self-custodial wallet I
10:09 would argue is quite frankly the only
10:11 real way to guarantee that level of
10:12 access that we aspire to get.
10:14 >> It's the the ultimate game changer.
10:16 We're we're either moving into a bit of
10:20 a prison planet kind of situation or via
10:24 decentralization, real um economic,
10:28 social, political, financial agency for
10:30 people um on these decentralized rails
10:33 plus AI um so that you're going to level
10:35 yourself up on anything in real time and
10:38 and have essentially cognitive
10:40 superpowers uh available to you. I I
10:44 think uh I think we're going to take um
10:46 the positive road. Uh I'm an optimist
10:49 and and I think uh uh I think we're
10:51 laying the foundations for a pretty
10:52 exciting future.
10:54 >> Awesome. You you hit on something that I
10:56 thought was also quite interesting where
10:58 you know people globally now for the
10:59 first time can access all of these
11:01 assets traditional financial instruments
11:04 and having them alongside the crypto.
11:06 there's really a convergence happening,
11:08 not really a competition, but a
11:10 convergence more of the traditional
11:12 financial world with the crypto world.
11:14 You could almost argue that the crypto
11:16 ETFs in a way were the start of that
11:18 where crypto was introduced into Tradfi
11:20 just with a different rapper and now all
11:22 of these traditional financial
11:24 instruments are coming on chain. How do
11:27 you think that with all of these assets
11:29 increasingly on one platform, how does
11:32 that change how people think about
11:34 portfolios and that does that blur the
11:35 lines between crypto investors and
11:37 traditional investors?
11:39 >> Absolutely. Let's hope so. Um, so so
11:42 we're coming out of a an era uh under
11:45 the Biden administration and uh uh Chair
11:49 Gensler's gaslighting and uh and
11:51 attempting to thwart our industry uh at
11:54 every turn. uh where where it was pretty
11:58 dire uh for our ecosystem. Uh so America
12:01 was trying to kill us. Um and we made it
12:03 through. Um we had a change of
12:07 administration. Uh we had uh stable
12:09 coins uh already starting to to look
12:12 really promising. We we had the ETF
12:14 approval. I'm not sure who made the
12:17 phone call to Chair Gensler to to make
12:19 that happen, but thank you. Uh who
12:20 whoever that was.
12:21 >> Maybe the person's in this room. Who
12:25 knows? It could be. Um uh then we had uh
12:30 uh the Genius Act uh making stables um
12:33 legal uh and and exciting. Um and that
12:36 uh that essentially caused um a bit of
12:38 an earthquake uh in the financial
12:41 industry. So banks started to panic. Uh
12:45 they started to be concerned uh uh that
12:48 maybe they'll lose uh their deposit
12:50 base. I I don't think that's true. Nick
12:55 Carter uh on his podcast uh uh shared
12:58 some data that uh um bank deposits uh
13:01 really rise and fall in correlation to
13:05 the liquidity in the uh in the US or or
13:07 the global economy. Uh it's probably
13:09 much less likely to be affected by
13:11 stables. My guess is that uh stables
13:14 will be a certain form of money. Bank
13:16 deposit tokens will be a different form
13:18 of money. There'll be other forms of
13:20 money. um and they'll probably rise and
13:23 fall uh with global liquidity. Um and so
13:27 we've um we've been in this era uh where
13:32 um Tradfi um has found itself uh now
13:36 onboarding uh to DeFi. Um [snorts] uh
13:39 the digital asset treasury companies uh
13:42 were an interesting part of that. Uh I'm
13:44 I'm very optimistic about certain
13:45 digital asset treasury companies. I
13:47 think many others were way too
13:49 premature. Uh and so but they're they're
13:51 going to be an important construct uh
13:55 going forward. Um as many banks around
14:01 the world uh were panicking um uh Cyos
14:03 uh picked up on that or sorry Swift
14:08 picked up on that. Um and we um uh ended
14:13 up uh entering into discussions uh about
14:17 uh uh how Swift can uh offer something
14:21 that uh uh that can be sort of next
14:25 generation embracing of of blockchain um
14:30 and and make things um easier for
14:31 financial institutions for banks around
14:33 the world uh to adopt the the technology.
14:34 technology.
14:36 it's probably not the case that banks
14:40 will need to custody the assets of their
14:43 customers uh in order to to survive and
14:46 thrive. Um and so um there there lots of
14:50 good ideas around that. But uh um at
14:54 Cyos in Frankfurt um uh Javier um Paris
14:58 Taso the CEO of Swift announced that uh
15:01 the consensus would be helping Swift to
15:05 build Swift Ledger. Um it is a prototype
15:07 uh that that we've been building. It's
15:11 the first phase of a of a multi-phase
15:15 project. Um and that was um received
15:18 really well. It was received as as a bit
15:22 of a revelation uh where uh previously
15:27 um it was verboten uh for tradi and defi
15:29 uh to talk to one another. Of course it
15:31 happened in many different ways but uh
15:35 uh many people frowned on it. Um and um
15:38 the sentiment at cyos shifted. Uh I
15:40 think uh there's a collective sigh of
15:43 relief and excitement uh that now we
15:47 have all been given permission uh to to
15:48 speak with one another to collaborate
15:52 with one another to take the 200 years
15:56 [snorts] of innovation in trad
16:00 the 10 years of innovation in in
16:03 [snorts] our space uh and uh some pretty
16:05 profound stuff in our space I I believe
16:07 uh and and make that available
16:12 Um so decentralized trust is uh is uh a
16:14 main characteristic of what we're all
16:18 doing in our ecosystem and uh um Satoshi
16:20 invented decentralized trust. Uh
16:22 Ethereum perhaps perfected it and and
16:27 brought it uh um to um benefit every
16:29 kind of application not just narrow
16:32 applications of money. Um and if we can
16:37 uh bring decentralized trust to tradi um
16:40 in a world uh that is losing trust in
16:43 centralized institutions uh we can make
16:46 tradi and defi just finance together and
16:48 uh and it'll make for much sounder
16:50 foundations for the economy
16:51 >> and a faster growing economy.
16:53 >> No, I love that a lot. I think a lot of
16:54 people actually don't realize but
16:57 consensus has been active in the trafi
16:58 space and trying to get them on chain
17:00 for a very long time. longer than
17:03 Ethereum has been up which is which is
17:05 long more than 10 10 and a half years.
17:08 >> Yeah, that's incredible. Um all right,
17:09 very good. I know that we are coming up
17:11 on time but I think last question for
17:14 you looking ahead as tokenization scales
17:16 more as more use cases come online as
17:18 you're working with the tradies what
17:22 does success for MetaMask look like over
17:24 the next call it 12 to 24 months and how
17:26 does something like fit into that? Yeah.
17:30 So, uh, MetaMask started life as, uh, as
17:32 a digital authority tool, uh, enabling
17:34 you to assign transactions and messages
17:38 so that you can, um, participate, um, on
17:41 web 3 on decentralized protocols. Um, it
17:44 has evolved to be a fully featured
17:48 wallet. Um, um, adding portfolio
17:49 management tooling, uh, all the
17:51 different, uh, kinds of capabilities
17:54 that that I described before. Um, we're
17:56 incredibly excited about our reward
17:58 system uh because it's still going to
18:01 take uh time. It's still going to take
18:04 years for um for this technology to go
18:07 really mainstream. And so um we can
18:09 reward people for doing things that uh
18:12 they already like to do on MetaMask and
18:14 we can show people what to do uh by
18:16 incentivizing different kinds of
18:18 behaviors. We represent the largest
18:21 distribution uh in the space and so many
18:25 protocols uh come to us to um to soon
18:28 use our reward system so that we can uh
18:31 uh incentivize our users uh reward our
18:34 users uh to to do new uh valuable
18:38 things. And so um we're moving uh to be
18:40 a neo bank, a new kind of neo bank that
18:43 uh you fully own or and are in control
18:47 of. And uh there there's a a claudebot
18:50 Mortbbot moment right now um which is I
18:53 think part of the evolution of this idea
18:55 of the development of a personal
18:58 operating system. So MetaMask is rapidly
19:02 evolving uh to become your personal
19:05 money operating system. Um and um
19:09 MetaMask represents uh the future of
19:12 finance essentially. Um it's going to be
19:14 open. Uh, it's going to be largely
19:16 permissionless. Uh, it's going to be
19:18 global. Uh, and it's going to accelerate
19:20 in 2026.
19:22 >> Very cool. And I'm very happy. You timed
19:23 it perfect. I know. I know. You've timed
19:25 it perfectly. I'm very happy that part
19:26 of the vision though does include
19:28 self-custodial stocks and ETFs. So,
19:30 absolutely. I'm very excited for that.
19:31 Joe, thank you very much. And that's a wrap.
