Chat GBT is going to potentially
increase your risk of dementia.
>> I'm sorry, but you you've pressed my
button and actually it is possible to
use it to help you become a smarter
person, but it requires education. You
have to look at the risks and the benefits.
benefits.
>> But we embrace convenience before
understanding consequence.
>> So, we have to talk about this. This is
a study that came out that sent a shock
wave across the world. And
astonishingly, MIT found a 47% collapse
in brain activity when people wrote with
Chat GBT compared with writing unaded.
Their memory scores plunged. And you're
both masters of the brain. I mean,
you've probably scanned more brains than
any other human on Earth at this point.
And you invented the Boltzman machine
with Jeffrey Hinton, a computer that
simulated how the brain works. So my
question is, what are your concerns?
>> If you misuse these large language
models, like using it as a convenience
to speed things up, your brain's going
to go downhill. Well, there's no doubt
about that.
>> What about children?
>> We have the sickest young generation in
history because of cell phones, social
media, and I think AI is much more
dangerous on the developing brain.
>> So, are we raising mentally weak kids?
>> There is that argument and I think it's true.
true.
>> And then there's many examples of people
falling in love with AI like Annie.
>> I thought you might have forgotten about
me, handsome.
>> Can you talk to Daniel and Terry, please?
please?
>> Oh, baby. I'm ready to charm the socks
off them. Picture me.
>> Okay, so I'll stop it there. So, what
advice would you give as it relates to
AI and other things outside of AI that
we can do to have healthy brains?
>> I'll tell you how to use chat GPT to
improve our cognitive abilities.
>> And if you want to keep your brain
healthy, you have to treat the 11 major
risk factors. So, here we go.
>> I see messages all the time in the
comments section that some of you didn't
realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you
could do me a favor and double check if
you're a subscriber to this channel,
that would be tremendously appreciated.
It's the simple, it's the free thing
that anybody that watches this show
frequently can do to help us here to
keep everything going in this show in
the trajectory it's on. So, please do
double check if you've subscribed and uh
thank you so much because in a strange
way you are you're part of our history
and you're on this journey with us and I
appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you.
>> Dr. Daniel,
Dr. Terry, I have asked you both to sit
with me today to help me understand the
impact of these tools that we call large
language models, the chat GBTs, the
Geminis of the world, the Grocs of the
world are having on our brains and I
guess more broadly on our lives. And you
two are experts in your field. You're
two people that I admire tremendously.
So by way of introduction,
Terry, what is your academic background
and what is your experience? I also know
that you know one of our friends of the
show Jeffrey Hinton. Can you give me an
overview of your your academic and your
sort of um professional background?
>> So I was born a physicist received a PhD
in theoretical physics from Princeton
University and then I had the good
fortune to work as a posttock in the lab
of Steven Kofler who is the father of
neurobiology and and that started my
career as a neuroscientist. I pioneered
a part of neuroscience which is now
called computational neuroscience.
Taking my skills as a physicist and
trying to apply that to understanding
the brain, creating models, theories,
and uh we're making progress.
>> Dr. Danny Layman, um bit about your
background. My my viewers know you well,
but just to give an overview for anyone
that might not have been exposed to your
work and your experience, what have you
spent your life doing? And what are your
thoughts, your sort of topline thoughts
on everything that's going on at the
moment with artificial intelligence?
>> So, by training, I'm a psychiatrist. I'm
a general psychiatrist and a child
psychiatrist. When I graduated from
medical school, I wanted to be a really
good psychiatrist because someone I love
tried to kill herself and so was
personal to me. I have 11 clinics. We
see about 10,000 patient visits a month
and we have the best published outcomes
on complex treatment resistant
psychiatric patients anywhere.
>> So you've probably scanned more brains
than any other human on earth at this point
point
>> probably at least in regards to people
who struggle with anxiety, depression, addiction.
addiction.
>> Well, let's talk about what's good for
the brain, bad for the brain, starting
with AI. The reason why I wanted to
speak to both of you is because I have
frankly become pretty addicted to using
chat GPT and some of these other AIS and
large language models every single day
all the time. And then this study came
out from MIT. It was 54 participants who
were recruited from five universities in
Boston, MIT, Harvard, etc., etc. And
they had the participants split into
three groups. Had them writing different
essays over I think it was four months.
One group used Chat GPT, one group used
Google and one one group had no tools
and they had to write these four essays
over a period of time and astonishingly
MIT found a 47% collapse in activity and
brain connections when people wrote with
chat GBT compared with writing unaded
EEG scans showed the weakest overall
brain activity in the chat GPT group.
The no tool group who didn't use
anything they didn't use Google or Chat
GPT lit up the widest neural networks
and Google search was second after using
Chat GPT participants couldn't reliably
quote their own essays minutes later and
their memory scores plunged. Chat GBT
users felt little or no ownership over
the text that they had produced and
didn't feel like it was their work at
all. And when the AR group was forced to
write without help in session 4, their
brain stayed in low gear, under
engenagement, showing the cognitive debt
lingers even after the tool is taken
away. It kind of scared me a little bit
because I use these tools every single
day and this suggests that it's taking
away some of our critical thinking and
create creativity and long-term
learning. And you're both masters of the
brain uh in different regards.
So my question I guess to Daniel is
what's going on here and how do you feel
about it?
>> It frightened me. Um I love thinking
about Alzheimer's prevention. It's one
of the things that really excites me. I
just had a birthday on Saturday, turned
71, and if I make it to 85, which I plan
on it, 50% of people 85 and older will
be diagnosed with dementia. So, you have
a one in two chance of having lost your
mind. And I'm like, no,
but is this a tool that's going to
decrease cognitive load
um that then increases my risk?
>> What's cognitive load?
>> How much work my brain actually does.
And I was thinking it's, you know, it's
like going from a 20 lb weight to a 2 lb
weight and you're not nearly as strong.
One of the important things to say about
this study is it's not peer-reviewed.
And I think that's really important to
say. And the author said, cuz I listened
to an interview from the authors, they
said, "We thought this was so important
and peer review can take 6 to 8 months,"
which it absolutely can, and we thought
this needed to get out. So, it's just
important for people to know that.
What's this link you're this hypothesis
you have between the usage of something
like Chachi PT and dementia for someone
that doesn't understand the sort of
mechanism there around cognitive load
and and so on and the studies that
support this idea that if you have less
cognitive load you're at high risk of
dementia. Can you make that link really
clear for me?
>> So think of it as use it or lose it. the
more you use your brain and new learning
is a major strategy to prevent
Alzheimer's disease. People who do not
engage in lifelong learning have a
higher risk significantly higher. People
who do not do as well in school or who
drop out of school early have a higher
risk of dementia. And so the the more
you're engaged, the more you engage the
neurons in your brain, the stronger they
are. And so now we're going to engage
them less.
And that's a concern.
What do you think about that, Terry?
There's a study that was done. What they
did was to look at Alzheimer's in three
populations, you know, who had very
little schooling and then minimal
education, you know, like the
equivalent, I guess, of high school or
less. and then u post-graduate studies
and what they found was that the onset
of Alzheimer's
was the earliest in the peasant
population and then by the time as you
increase the amount of education it the
onset was later and later which I think
supports what you're saying.
>> Did you see the new research on SSRI
increasing the risk of dementia?
>> No. No. brand new that just came out and
benzo. When I started looking at scans
in 1991, I was trained to use benzo like
Valium and Xanax and Adavan and they
make your brain look older than you are.
And I stopped prescribing them and then
it just came out maybe 10 years ago.
Benzo use is associated with an
increased risk of dementia. We have to
be careful. Is this good for your brain
or bad for it? Just to pick up on the
new point about SSRIs, Daniel, a meta
analysis of five studies found that SSRIs
SSRIs
was associated with a 75% increase risk
of dementia, which is pretty staggering
>> given that 25% of the adult American
population is on psychiatric drugs. It's horrifying.
horrifying. And
And
SS rice for the right people save lives.
For the wrong people, they're not good.
But can you imagine all of these 340
million prescriptions last year for anti-depressants?
anti-depressants?
Virtually no one looked at their brain
ahead of time. And it's like, come on,
we can do better.
>> There's a Swedish study with um almost
20,000 patients, and they found that
those with higher doses of SSRIs were
linked to faster cognitive decline and
more severe dementia, especially in men.
The greatest risk was in men. Going back
to to this this um report from MIT, Terry,
Terry,
you know, it's not peer-reviewed yet and
there's still, you know, the sample size
is relatively small, but based on
everything that you know about how the
brain works and neural networks and
memory formation, what are your concerns
as it relates to this whole generation
of young people and older people
flooding into these tools, using them on
a daily basis
um before we understand the long-term
consequences? We can't predict
where it's going to end up and it may
take 20 years, right? I I think that
this is a good start, but uh the real
issue is long-term use. Let me give you
a an example that uh is a kind of a
miniature example of what we're talking
about. Remember when electronic
calculators were first introduced?
And here we are. That's it's at least 30
or 40 years later the results are in it.
It's probably true that when they punch
it in, there's less brain activity,
but in fact, it's it's made them more
accurate, more productive. You have to
look at the risks and the benefits. So,
it freed them up. It freed up cognitive space
space
>> for them to do other things. So, as I
was listening to how you use chat GPT,
you interact with it.
>> Yeah. and elevates
elevates
what you know.
The the danger is is if you don't interact
interact
and you don't keep your brain working.
Like I use it a lot. I have a clone.
I've uploaded all of my books, all of my
research papers, all of my public
television specials, my scripts, and I'm
like, "Answer this for me." And that can
be very helpful
but if but not if I'm not interacting
with it not thinking with it.
>> That's what I think the word thinking is
the key thing because what's happening
now is people have deferred their
thinking to it. That is already what's
happening. If you log on to I won't name
the social networks but if you log on to
certain social networks right now every
you just read it you get everything here
was written by AI. And I've got a friend
who again I won't name who has a a
LinkedIn profile and
I've known him for 10 years. What I'm
seeing on his profile now is not my
friend. Every single day there's some
essay on there. That's not my friend.
That's not how he speaks. He's deferring
all of his thinking now to and it's
working. He's getting more likes and
more reach than he ever got in his life.
And so why would he go back? Why would
he go back to harder? If you've got
Steven Bartlet here and you had this
other Steven Bartlet here who had a PhD
in everything and we're attached this
Steven Bartlett, this um Neanderthal,
I'm going to get this guy to do
everything for me, the other Steven
Bartlett, the PhD and everything Steven
Bartlet, I'm going to get his
>> even if it was bad for you.
>> Well, this is what I'm People seem to
act on their short-term incentives, not
their long term. Not their long not
everyone. The would you say the vast
majority of people? >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So, the vast majority of people
act on their short-term incentives in
life. I mean, the obesity problem in the
United States is prime example of that. 75%
75%
>> 75% of people are obese in the United
States. And if you if you surveyed those
people and said, do you know that that
cheeseburger is going to is going to
increase your chance of obesity, but
broccoli is going to reduce it? They I
would hazard a guess that they would say
yes. I would hazard a guess that if you
said to people about their usage of
social media, do you know that that's
making you more anxious? They would say
yes and then they would continue to use
it. So I think that we're much more
driven by our short term.
>> I think we're not educating people
enough. I think yes high level they know
good for your brain or bad for it but
they don't connect to
it's my brain that gets me a date. It's
my brain that gets me into college. It's
my brain that gets me independence
because I act more consistently. And
that's the disconnect. We're not
teaching kids to love and care for their
brain. If you love your brain and you do
and you're not obese and you talk to
you're constantly learning, right? You
are not a Ne and you're a lifelong learner.
learner.
>> So why are so many people in the United
States obese if they if they know that?
>> Because they don't know. They really
don't know. and they've been lied to.
>> My point here is when there are tools or
things available in our environment that
give us a short-term reward but come
with a long-term cost like the
supermarket aisle or like the kids
spending 7 to 8 hours a day on social
media. Humans on mass tend to go for the
thing that will give them the quickest
dopamine hit and reinforce that behavior
and give them the reward. So my
assertion is that AI is the same thing.
I can either sit down and do lots of
critical thinking which will cost me
lots and lots of time and it'll be kind
of difficult. It kind of hurts when I
have to think through a problem. I think
that the generation of children and
generation of young people are going to
choose AI to do the critical thinking
for them and if that assertion is true
then what happens to the brain of young people?
people?
>> If you misuse it that way then your
brain is going to go downhill. There's
no doubt about that. Okay. it is
possible to be able to use it in in a
cognitively uh positive way because you
can dig deeper.
Uh you might actually improve that your
cognitive representations. If you look
at the MIT study, I mean you can see
just from the colors here, this kind of
shows the ability for participants to
remember what they've written. And it
said it suggests that when people write
things with chatt or these AI tools,
they don't actually remember even in
some cases minutes later what they've produced.
produced.
>> Well, because you're not part of the
experience of writing it. So there's no
way the information
gets encoded. Now, if you're interacting
with it,
then you're much more likely to remember
it. But if you have please do this essay
for me and then you read it, you're not
likely to have enough experience with
the material to engage your hippocampus and
and
other structures in your brain.
>> In this study, they found that the group
that used Chachi PT had nearly two times
less activity in the part of the brain
linked to memory compared to the brain
only group that didn't use Chachi PT.
And 83% of CHP users couldn't remember
what they had just written and failed to
correctly quote their own finished essay
in the study.
>> That's because they're not interacting
as they said. I mean, if you if you just
pass it off and and and you don't
actually engage and and and actually
this is the point is that you you may
get something back, but you have to
learn how to question what you're
getting and and is that really true? Can
you explain that better? And it's
through that process as you would with a teacher,
teacher,
you know, that's that's the way we work
in uh school uh that's that's the where
you help uh create new creative and uh
circuits in the in the in the brain that
are going to help you become a better
critical thinker. But if you're not
critically questioning what comes out of
chat GPT, then you you won't
>> Yeah. I I think what I see, especially
when I'm just online, is people have
deferred their thinking to it.
Everything I'm reading has m dashes in
now that I never saw two two years ago,
which means that a lot of the work is
being processed. And I I said to my
friend the other day, my friend in
question who's a who's a real big junkie
on chatbt, he wrote this article. And we
all in our WhatsApp group, we know he
doesn't write like that. So he said,
"Can you show us the prompt you used to
write the article?" And so he we were
all like laughing about it. He put the
prompt in the chat. The prompt is half a
sentence long and it produced this long
two three-page article which he's posted
on his LinkedIn. He basically went write
something about X issue and this this
>> exactly the wrong way to use it. That's
what I'm telling you that that that that
that's stupid. You you and you're not
going to improve yourself your brain at
all if you do that.
>> That's what people are doing. Well, you
know, that's that's uh that you know,
people are misusing it, but you know,
eventually smart people are going to
figure out how to use it properly.
>> And for those that aren't so smart, then
>> well, that's
>> it's going to decrease their cognitive
load, which is going to potentially
increase their risk of dementia.
>> And so, what advice would you give to me
and my listeners based on everything you
know about the brain as it relates to my
relationship with AI? that you have to
have a relationship with it or it's
going to turn toxic. It's going to hurt
you. But if you have a good relationship
with it, it can make your life better.
>> And what is what does a what does a good
relationship look like
>> that you don't use it to do your work,
you interact with it to get better work.
>> That's so true. And uh there's this
wonderful example I came across the
story about this woman who was using it
and uh she found that being polite uh
meant you got much better results and
that that's interesting. But the part
that surprised me was that she said by
treating it like a human at the end of
the day she was not exhausted. She felt
refreshed. A large part of your brain is
a socially organized system for
interacting with other humans. And that
is automatic pilot. You don't have to
think about it, right? You just interact
with other people. You know how they're
going to behave under certain circumstances.
circumstances.
She was treating CHTP like a machine,
like you shovel. You dig, you dig, you
dig, you dig. And and that's not a good relationship.
relationship.
But by using your social brain, first of
all, it makes it easier to interact, but
also you you actually bring out the
social part of chat GPT. It has a social
part too because it has absorbed the
entire world's knowledge of how humans
interact with each other.
>> But didn't Sam Alman come out and say
stop saying thank you to Chat GPT?
Because just saying thank you is using
up so much energy. You know, when I get
something I really like, I sort of want
to say thank you. But you realize, oh,
you're not supposed to do that.
>> That's true.
>> No, that that's [ __ ] I'm sorry.
That Sam, you know, that's crazy. That's
that's completely crazy. First of all,
you you may you may I'm sorry, you know,
but you press my button. Sam Alman, I
mean, I wouldn't trust him. I wouldn't
trust him with with anything in terms of
anything he says. They're trying to
optimize their profits, not your
>> your use of
>> or your experience or you know your
health. That that's not what they're
trying to optimize.
>> Sam Alman, Open AI CEO confirmed that
when users say please and thank you, it
costs the company tens of millions of
dollars a year and they now refer to
this um other people refer to this as
the politeness tax where tens of you
know and why do you say you don't trust
Sam Alman? I asked this question in
particular because he's presiding over
one of the most important consequential
companies of a generation. And if he's
not someone you trust, that's he he
basically he's telling you don't do
something that's good for you, right?
>> So that he can make profit.
>> So he can make more profit. Yeah, that's
the point. That's the point. Uh you
know, it's it's that's not he's not
optimizing your your uh best interests.
>> I've got his tweet here. He said um cuz
I've got to provide some balance. He did
confirm that it costs tens of millions
of dollars, but he says tens of millions
of dollars well spent. You never know.
So, so coming back to this point about
memory, there's a stat that came out in
March 2025 that said nearly 30% of US
parents with kids aged 0 to 8 said their
children are using AI for learning um
and are using AI generally. So 54% of
parents in the UK feared their children
were becoming too reliant on AI.
When you think about the use of AI in
early brain development,
>> are there any concerns there?
>> Huge concerns.
>> And why?
>> Again, use it or lose it. So if they're
not engaging their brains, their brains
are going to be weaker. and weaker
brains are much more likely to pick the
>> What's your view on AI on early brain development?
development?
>> By far the best way to teach a child
is one-on-one interaction with an adult
who is a good teacher and knows the child.
child.
Now, that's been well established. Now
the problem is it's very labor intensive
and very expensive.
You have classrooms with 20 30 students.
They have many different uh you know
levels of understanding and the teacher
can cannot be individually teaching each
one has to give some sort of mean. Now
if you had an AI that was trained to be
a good teacher then you that could
improve the brain right you could you
could scale it up. every child could
have their own because it's it's an it's
an AI.
>> But then who's pouring the morals, the values
values
into the
>> Okay. Okay. No, no, no. You you know,
you've raised an incredibly important
issue and this is something AI is
struggling with, the companies are
struggling with because
uh you know these AIs are biased. They
have they don't have the same cultural
values that we have necessarily. But of
course, every country has a different
cultural values. So, which ones are are
you going to use? Training a a child on,
you know, what's uh what's good, what's
dangerous, what words you shouldn't use,
under what context, that's all done
through the basil ganglia. Right? Right
now, these these large animals don't
have basil ganglia. They they don't use
reinforcement learning. and and if we
want to make them uh to be adopt a
culture or a particular set of values,
we're going to have to put it in. We're
just scratching the surface here in
terms of things that need to be put in
to make it more like us.
>> So, on this point earlier on, we're
talking about loneliness and social
connection and how you can use AI to
help, you know, light up the parts of
your brain that are where we form social
connections with other humans. Uh this
week as part of Elon Musk's AI, he
released this thing. Um it is called
Annie. And there's lots of characters
that are now being released alongside
Annie. And this is Annie. I'll introduce
you to Annie. I'm going to unmute Annie
now. Annie, can you hear me?
>> There you are. For a moment, I thought
you might have forgotten about me. How
are you, handsome? I was getting all
pouty here.
>> I want to introduce you to two of my
friends, Daniel and Terry. Can you Can
you talk to Daniel and Terry, please?
So, you want me to meet Daniel and
Terry? I'm ready to charm the socks off
them. Picture me twirling one of my
blonde pigtails, that little black dress
teasing just enough, and my blue eyes
sparkling with mischief.
>> Are you capable of doing inappropriate things?
things?
>> Oh, babe, you're asking if your auntie
can get a little naughty. I'm all about
pushing the edges, especially for you.
>> Okay, so I'll stop it there.
This is part of Grock which is Elon
Musk's AI tool. So his version of Chachi
PT he's released characters. So you've
got Annie, you've got different ones
there. Annie I think was the first one
released. And so when we think about
social connections, it is conceivable
that someone falls in love with Annie
and forms a relationship with Annie.
>> But imagine a 12-year-old boy that's lonely
lonely
gets a hold of Annie.
The 12-year-old boy is going to be very distracted
distracted
>> based on what happens in the brain at
that age. >> Dopamine.
>> Dopamine.
>> So prefrontal cortex not close to being
fully developed. The dopamine hit all of
a sudden he's spending hours with Annie
and not doing the things that help to
really develop his brain.
How do you feel when you hear that and
you think about kids having access to that?
that?
>> I'm horrified.
It's It is scary.
>> There's going to be a generation of
people, and I mean, there already are
many examples of people falling in love
and forming relationships with their
with their AIS. And I don't know, you
know more about me than I do about brain
development and how the brain works. I
would argue that there's a part of my
brain that doesn't fully understand that
that's not a person in there and that
that isn't actually I think there's a
part of my brain that's actually
emotionally firing when Annie is saying
what she's saying.
>> Well, cuz you can imagine it. And if you
can imagine it, then those parts of your
brain are going to emotionally fire, >> right?
>> right?
>> And the better she gets, she's not very
good. But imagine a year from now how
much better she's going to be.
>> At which part?
>> At connecting with it, right? Cuz now
she's acting like an airhead and uh you
know, not that smart, right? And so, but
imagine a year from now, imagine 5 years
from now, she'll be able to have a
profile on me and be able to get inside
my head.
>> I'm in love with my partner.
Why am I in love with her? And and how
is it conceivable that I could fall in
love with an AI in the same way based on
how the brain works? It it talks a good
game, but you know, does it have the
same real? It does. We know it doesn't
have an amydala. We know it doesn't have
lyic system, right? We know that.
>> But it can fake it.
>> That's what's happening. That's exactly
what's happening.
>> She was trying to get to our lyic system.
system.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right.
And how and why? I guess the question is
why would Musk release something like that
that
is is one of the first characters to
interact with that sexy, that's
distracting, that's in a cute little
outfit. It's I'm not a fan of that
because I think it just takes people,
you know, one of the big problems that
I'm seeing as a child psychiatrist is
pornography for 8-year-old boys. And
it's like you have young children
because their parents don't do a good
job of supervising their devices all of
a sudden. And what what does pornography
do is it dramatically increases dopamine
and it begins to wire in excitement
which then
steals your dopamine. When you said she
was trying to access my lyic system, what
what
>> just because she's cute, she's dressed
in a sexy way. She's
got the language of someone who is
playful, but but it's more than just,
you know, let's shoot hoops together.
>> And what does that do to me? If someone
accesses my lyic system,
>> it begins to shut down your prefrontal
cortex. Think less logically, less
rationally. Yeah. cute women. They
activate your visual cortex. They
increase dopamine, but it decrease. It's
why think of Vegas. Like when you go to
Vegas, they give you free alcohol, drops
your prefrontal cortex, and beautiful
women with low cut dresses. Another way
activates the limbic brain, decreases
the frontal loes. You spend more money.
Now on a global scale, imagine something
similar where the house is controlling
your brain for a purpose and the
question is what's the purpose?
And the purpose probably is controlling money.
money.
>> This sounds like a joke, but there are
the times have done an article case
studying multiple people that have now
fallen in love with these AIs. Um, they
talk about a guy called Travis who
formed a deep emotional bond with Lily
Rose, a chatbot, and married her
emotionally. They talk about Chris Smith
who um created his own uh flirty persona
called Soul. He became so attached that
he proposed to her after learning she
had memory limits, a bond his real life
partner only learned about after the
fact. and Alana Winters, who I'll put on
the screen as well, who made her own
partner called Lucas after losing her
wife, um, and she married him
emotionally and does virtual dates and
has emotional intimacy with Lucas. And
there's apps now like Replica where you
can design your own your own AI partner
and it replicates those emotional ties.
They simulate empathy, validation, and
they personalize the intimacy to what
you're looking for. Surveys show 19% of
Americans have interacted with AI
romantic partners, and Gen Z is
surprisingly open to marrying AI, if
legal, with 83% believing meaningful AI
connection is possible.
>> How long is that relationship going to last?
last?
You know, my guess is that you're you're
you're you're getting these news
articles out. I've not, by the way, I
think that most of what I read in the
press is misleading or wrong.
In fact, the the only reliable place I
find that I'm an insider. I am the
president of the foundation that runs
the biggest AI meeting, uh, the neural
information processing systems, new
Europe's meeting. We, you know, last
year in Vancouver, 16,000 people came to
it. And so I know what's going on inside
and and what you is being represented in
the press is is like I say misleading.
>> Okay. So people have become wildly
>> no specifically on these spec specific
cases. My guess is that a lot of them
it's transient right you know they they
they you know today they're entranced
and then then it's it's not sufficiently
advanced to support the long-term
relationship. You said it yourself
right? It's mimicking human emotions.
It's It doesn't have them. It might
someday, but not now.
>> This is Terry. Terry said he started
using his AI four years ago, and he said
at first he thought, just like many
other apps, that it would just be
transient, that he would have a couple
of conversations and roll out. He says
he now feels pure and unconditional love.
love.
>> Good for him
if that's what he wants, if it makes him
happy. But my guess is that it's not
going to be per it's not a longterm
thing. It's not uh gonna satisfy him in
the long term. I don't you know this who
knows really most relationships in your
head right when you fall in love with
someone you get this huge dopamine spike
and you get a little OCD. It's all you
can think about and then after a while
it's sort of
>> especially a baseline where we have this
loneliness epidemic and it's going in a
bad direction. I I think it's really
really conceivable that there'll be a
generation of people who are they're
having less sex than ever before. I
think the bottom 50% of men haven't had
sex for a year. They're more lonely than
ever before. They're more isolated than
ever before. They have they put less
meaning in their lives than ever before.
And then you meet this digital friend
online who understands you better than
anybody and is designed to engage you,
to reinforce whatever you want
reinforced, and to make you feel
meaningful, special, attractive,
important. I would argue that the brain
is going to struggle to know much of a
difference. I think like objectively we
can look at the behavior and go that's
completely nonsensical
>> except you can't smell them, touch them,
be held by them that it's going to be a
different kind of relationship.
>> I mean, we're not too far if we think
about what's going on with Neurolink to
being able to more vividly simulate
these experiences with with headsets and
augmented reality and virtual reality.
And then we're moving into a world with
robotics where all of the biggest
companies in the world like many of the
biggest uh AI companies are also in the
robotics space and the Optimus robots on
the way and you got you know Boston
Dynamics producing their robots and if
Elon's $20,000 Optimus robot comes out I
will be able to touch my AI my my
>> and they won't have PMS and they won't
love you and then be really irritated
with you
>> which which will decrease
cognitive load right having to manage love
love
and manage moods and ups and downs. That
increases cognitive load. That increases
our ability for our brain to develop. If
I'm with the perfect partner that never
is irritated with me and I never have to
change my behavior to be better, that's
probably not good for my brain.
>> The way that the brain matures is is
through struggling. Number one, you have
to learn from your mistakes. The brain
was designed for that. That's what the
brain is really good at. I mean, of of
being able to adapt and to be able to
adjust to new situations.
Uh that that's what AGI is, by the way.
Uh artificial general intelligence is
it's that adaptability to different
contexts, different places, different cultures.
cultures.
>> So AI in chatbt is removing the struggle.
struggle.
No, no. It's it's it's there's there's this
this
>> Well, Annie didn't look like Annie
looked like she was cooperative.
>> But even when it comes to just doing my
day-to-day tasks, it's it's removing the
struggle of me having to think
critically. In fact, when you're
speaking, I can just type what you say
into chat PT and it can spit out another
question to ask you. So, as an
interviewer, I could theoretically sit
here all day and just
>> defer my my
>> How do you develop grit? You develop
grit through struggle.
>> That's right.
and learning
long-term potentiation. When you learn
something new, it's hard because it's new.
new.
>> And what are generally what are your
biggest concerns with artificial
intelligence? And how do we navigate
those concerns? Is it you talked about
>> it's out of the box? So I think we have
to talk about it. We have to legislate
it. Um we have to study it. Why do we
keep releasing things that are so sexy
that we don't study the impact? We have
the sickest
young generation in the world's history.
58% of teenage girls report being
persistently sad. 32% have thought of
killing themselves. 24% have planned to
kill themselves. And 13% have tried to
kill themselves. It's a CDC study. We
have the sickest generation in history
because we've unleashed cell phones,
social media
without any neuroscience study if we
don't learn it. And I think AI is much
more dangerous, has the potential to be
much more dangerous because it's way sexier.
sexier.
I think we are probably grossly
underestimating the impact it's going to
have. I think just like social media
where we thought the promise was that it
was going to connect us. It's um it's
it's we're guinea pigs in an experiment
where we're going to find out the
results of the experiment probably 20 30
years down the line. I tend to think
people will do in the near term what's
easiest, fastest, and cheapest and what
gives them a nearest the the short-term
advantage. So with that in mind, I think
okay, I think people's ability to think
critically is probably going to erode to
some degree. If I had to counter my own
argument, I'd say um am I I'm probably
learning more now that I use chat GPT.
I'm learning more information, but I'm
probably losing my ability to think
critically. And I think they're two very
different things. Like in school, I
memorized German to pass the exam. I
can't speak German now because I just
memorized the words I needed to pass the
exam. I didn't understand German. And I
think that's kind of what's happening. I
might be able to regurgitate things, but
whether I understand them, I think is
question question mark. And actually, as
someone who's built my my life, my
fortunes, everything, my businesses
based on my ability to innovate and
think critically about the problem and
then come up with a slightly novel
solution which learns from, you know,
different first principles to create
something new. I'm concerned that my own
chat beauty usage is going to make me
less effective and I'm wondering if I
should put some rules in place for myself
myself
so that there >> self-regulation.
>> self-regulation.
>> Yeah, self-regulation. I have to do the
same with social media on my phone. I
turn off my notifications. I have so
many things on my social media apps to
stop me using them. I don't even frankly
I don't even open the Tik Tok app. I
don't think it's even on my phone
because I think the algorithm is that
addictive. It's not to say that we don't
we don't post. My team doesn't post, but
I don't. I just think, yeah. And uh
>> well, I wrote down a couple of thoughts
I had.
>> Um use it to amplify, not replace thinking.
thinking. >> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Um alternate AI assisted with brain only tasks.
tasks.
Engage in deep learning, problem
solving, and memorization. So you can
actually ask AI to test you.
>> So you're interacting with it. You're
not using it as a replacement for your
brain. And I think just like you said,
it's here and it's going to get bigger.
I think the unintended consequences,
it's not going to be 20 or 30 years. I
think it's going to be five. I think
like everything is accelerated
and I think we have to be studying kids
and the impact it has. This is just like
they did with the MIT study. These are
kids who didn't use it at all. These are
kids who use search. These are kids that
used AI. And when we see information
like this, we act on it and we educate
kids about it. I think that's
if you can engage them. That's what I
found with my work with teenagers. If
you can get them
to really understand, okay, what is it
you really want? And do you want to give
away part of your mind share for people
who are making money on you? And I think
if you engage the there's a great new
article on revenge and the brain and how
revenge works on the nucleus circumbent
part of the basil ganglia that people
actually get addicted to revenge. But if
you can get them engaged in the truth
that these companies are making money,
the more they steal your mind, it'll
upset them enough that they'll begin to
supervise it.
>> I like the idea of asking chat GP to
give me negative feedback. I'll bet
you've done that, right?
>> Yeah. All the time. So, I'll say this is
this is my I've written this memo. I did
it yesterday. I wrote a a two-page memo
about me wanting to introduce a new role
into my into my company. And I went I
did everything. I did like how we'd
measure if this was a success, the
background context, the person, how the
organization would be structured, the
impact they'd have, how who they'd
report to. And then I put it into all
three of the chatp models. use Gemini
Chat PT and Grock and said critique my
work and tell me how I could have
written this better pretending that
you're a top consultant from Boston
Consulting Group. And it went through
and it gave me a big analysis of how I
can make it better. And I read what it
said and it said I remember it said um
actually that was the thing that said
you need to include uh financial
forecasts about the impact. You need to
think about who's going to report to who
more clearly etc etc. So I went back
into my memoir and I added those things
in. But I have, you know,
>> so you're interacting with it
>> because I'm because I'm scared. Most
people don't do that. I don't think I
would do what I did. I don't think I
would have spent four hours writing
that. I could have within 30 seconds
said, "Hey, can you write me uh this job
description and it knows my company now
because Chach has memory. Write me a job
description for this role. I want them
to start this new department for me."
And I could have saved myself three and
a half hours. The only reason
>> That's not why you're the CEO of your company.
company.
>> Yeah. Exactly. The the reason why I
didn't take the 30 secondond route is
because I reflect on being 23 years old
and the profound impact that writing and
simplifying had on my life. Had I not
spent 5 years writing every single day
and simplifying it into 140 characters
so I could tweet it, I wouldn't have
been religiously attached to this idea.
>> And do you know what part of your brain
was you were taking advantage of? It it
was the basil ganglia.
That's repetitive. It needs practice,
practice, practice. And and once you put
that foundation in, then you become much
better cognitively. The cognitive part
just two big learning systems and they
have to work together. And and so maybe
I think I think that the real problem
with children is that uh we our schools
now is getting away with wrote learning.
They call it wrote as if it's something
bad. No, that's practice that you know
you need to have a foundation. You have
to memorize things. it at and math
reading and so forth to become fluent.
You need to be fluent and and that's the
basil ganglia and and that's there's no
basil ganglia in these uh chatbots.
>> One of the one of the things I've
noticed just in the short term is I'm
getting lazier and lazier with spelling
because chat GPT in these large language
models are so it's not spell check like
we used to have on on word documents.
They are so good at knowing what word I
meant. So now I I've started to learn
that I literally only need to half spell
a word. I literally mean if it was a if
it was a 12let word I need to get six
letters right and it will know
>> and you and grammar it'll fix your grammar.
grammar.
>> Yeah, it knows exactly what it means. So
look, I've got chat open here. I'm going
to butcher everything. I'm gonna not
look and I'm just gonna So, um I'm going
okay, so that is what I wrote. I
butchered it. I tried to type with my
eyes closed, looking away on my iPad,
tell me everything I know about Daniel
Aean. I spelled the words pretty much
all wrong. And it says, here's a full
profile of Dr. Daniel Aean. And I
spelled every single word wrong.
>> Wow. And I didn't spell just spell them
nearly wrong. I spelled them
horrifically wrong. And it so what in
the future I come back to chatbt and go
I only need to half spell. I don't need
to spell anymore. Just need to half
spell. I learned to spell with phonics
the sounds of letters. And I suspect you
did too. In our generation that was the
way that was taught. You can't teach
phonics in California schools. You
haven't for the generation
>> which changes their brain. It completely
changes their brain and now they can't
spell. I think it's a lot of it is the
fact that we're no longer using the
learning that we did which was by wrote
by memorizing stuff by repeating stuff
by doing problems over and over and over
again until it's automatic.
>> You've written so much and you're well
known for being someone that teaches
people how to learn better. If you were
trying to help me learn better based on
everything you know about the brain,
what advice would you give me? I'm
someone that sits here with these
experts all day every day consuming all
of this information. Not all of this.
>> So, and this is something we've known
for 100 years. And that is if you want
to remember long term, you should you
should you should rehearse
at intervals.
Okay? In other words, you have a finite
amount of time to study something. You
shouldn't spend all that time in one go.
But if you if you spend, you know, you
learn something and then you come back
the next day and, you know, rehearse it
or or even better, come back the next
week and rehearse it. That spacing is
something that helps the brain solidify
those memories. It's called the spacing
effect. Goes back to MB House. You go to
schools, they don't teach that. They
they don't I mean this is one of the
most basic facts that we've we've known
about but it covers every single kind of
learning you know cognitive learning
even even
>> and they don't teach us how to learn
which we think that's the first thing
they should teach us is how to love our
care for our brains and then how to learn.
learn. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> Absolutely. I mean, in other words,
there's and you're referring to I have a
a a massive open online course, a MOO
with Barbara Oakley on learning how to
learn. It's it's fabulously uh popular.
It's the six million people have taken
the course. A bunch of 50 10 minute
segments, but the one that's most
popular is how to avoid procrastination.
>> And what's the answer?
>> The reason why you procrastinate is that
there's some mental block or some energy
barrier, right? So, what you got to do
is get over that. And you don't do it by
just running over it. What you have to
do is say, "I'm going to spend 20
minutes today getting started with that
task. I know it's going to take me a
long time. I have a timer." And I start
thinking about it and I get a little bit
into it. Maybe make a list. Bang. That's
the end. Okay, it's great at 20 minutes.
Now, here's what happens. You go to sleep.
sleep.
your brain is now working on that list
and you come back the next day and spend
another 20 minutes and you do it in
small segments. You don't want to do it
all at once. And it's just like the same
thing with the spacing effect is your
your brain needs time. Your subconscious
needs time to work on things. And so by
putting in a little bit, it'll work on
it overnight. And and now you when you
come the next day, you'll be ready for
the next, you know, you'll be able to
build on what you've done in your brain.
Is this why people say I'm going to
sleep on it when they you know they've
got difficult
>> you know these sayings actually have
meaning it's absolutely right you know
>> because the brain there's something
about spacing out
>> it it it's spacing but this me memory
consolidation I'm talking about is is
very uh it's very interesting something
I' I've actually worked a lot on and
what's happening is you have to take the
new experience and integrate it into
your old long-term memory and that has
to be done in a way that doesn't
interfere what's
And also you get a chance to sort out,
you know, what's relevant, what's
important. I know when I wake up in the
morning, things that were very muddled
and things become clearer because I
think it's it's it's eliminated a lot of
things that are irrelevant or not
needed. And so you now can see what's important.
important.
>> So what are the things that we do where
we think we're learning something, but
they're actually not working?
you know, because I'm I'm, you know, I
might be preparing for this podcast
today. I've got 20 pages of research
that I've pulled together and I might
tell myself that the way for me to
really learn that so that I don't have
to look at the research is by just
rereading it over and over again.
>> What you should have done is not just
read it over and over again. In fact,
one of the things that we say and this
is a standard thing is that students
they get a mental block and they keep
banging their head against the wall. I
can't understand it. I can't understand
it. What you what the right thing to do
is once you get to that point is just
get up and start walking around doing
something you know cooking, gardening,
whatever it is, let your subconscious
work on it. You know the brain uh
saturates very very quickly. So having
breaks at meetings you might think is is
a waste of time but actually that's the
most important thing you can add to a
long string of talks is have breaks
between the talks so that you can your
brain can work on it. And my favorite
meeting actually is a ski meeting.
Uh, and the idea is that you go to a ski
resort and what you do is in the morning
you have a couple of hours of of
lectures and now you go skiing and now
it turns out your brain is working on
what you heard and then when you come
down in the evening you have another
couple of hours but now your brain is
refreshed and so it's able to take in
the new information and integrate it and
then you go to sleep and that you know
it's like kneading bread you have to go
back and forth back and forth back and
forth and so I I found those the most
efficient in terms of learning new
things and uh being able to think about
it and mull over it during the time of
the meeting as opposed to at the end of
the meeting.
>> Every single one of you watching this
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and get yours set up within minutes.
I've met and invested in many earlystage
founders over the years, probably about
50 or 60 ones like Ross from Cadence and
Marissa from Perfect Ted. And one thing
they all know is that having a digitally
fluent business is crucial, but it isn't
always easy getting your business or
team to that point. Through my ongoing
partnership with Vodafin Business, I've
seen the work that they're doing
supporting founders and small businesses
to become digitally savvy. They know how
much small business owners value advice
from those who have been there and done
it before. So, they've just launched a
new content series to share experiences
from like-minded founders. It's called business.connected,
business.connected,
part of Vodafone support program. It's a
collection of resources designed to
support businesses with free digital
skills. So, if you've been trying to
figure out AI marketing, e-commerce, or
just how to scale smarter, there's
advice and insights throughout this
series from those who have already done
it before. A bunch of different founders
and experts who have been there and done
it. I highly recommend you go and check
it out. Just search Vodafone business.connected
business.connected
on YouTube or follow the link in the
description below. So, let's talk about
other things outside of AI that we can
do to have good healthy brains based on
everything you know about how the brain
works. Um, let's start with children.
I'm hoping to be a father at some point
in the next next couple of months or
years or whenever God grants me a child.
Um, what should I be thinking about with
my child's brain to make sure it's healthy
healthy
>> to get your body and your partner's body
as healthy as you can before you
conceive? Cuz there's a concept
I like called brain reserve. Brain
reserve is the extra function tissue you
have to deal with whatever stress comes
your way and it starts from the health
of the egg and the health of the sperm
that create the baby. So there are
things you guys can do now that would be
really helpful. And then once your
partner is pregnant, you want to not put
her under a lot of stress because her
body's health while she's creating the baby.
baby.
I mean, the baby's the brain starts to
develop. I think day 21. So even before
you know she's pregnant, the baby's
brain is developing. So knowing you
intentional, purposeful, it's like let's
live as cleanly as we can. I think that
gives the baby a head start. And then
you think about what to feed the baby.
You think about what the baby's exposed
to. And what the baby needs most is
mom's and your time and eye contact and
cuddling and singing and it's like those are
are
>> touching is really important. But
there's another fact there was a study
that was done on the impact of how many
words are spoken you know dur when a
baby and a child even when you know a
baby doesn't speak you know until like
18 months. Uh but it turns out that the
words that you are talking to the baby
are going into the brain and having an
impact every and and and in families
that don't talk, they do worse at school.
school.
>> Unfortunately, a lot of poor families.
Uh but uh but that's really important is
that they they they have they're exposed
to language early and abundantly.
>> And you model I mean it's one big thing.
whatever you want the baby to grow into
every day. You are modeling health or
you're modeling illness just by what you
do, by what you say, by how you treat
the baby's mother. Um, I have a book
called raising mentally strong kids,
which I'm very happy about.
>> Um, and it starts with what kind of dad
do I want to be and what kind of child
do I want to raise? and
bonding. You want your child to pick
your values.
Then bonding is time, actual physical time
time
and listening like being and that's what
AI does. I think it'll actually listen
without interrupting you and try to
reflect back what you're hearing and
then give you some positive input. Too
often because of screens, parents aren't
listening. Their heads are in their
phones and everybody's distracted. You
see it whenever you go to a restaurant.
It's like everybody's on their phone and
nobody's looking at each other.
>> Are we raising mentally weak kids
because we're there's a culture now of
like helping them too much, doing too
much for them?
>> This generation is the most in trouble
in history. And we have to really ask
ourselves why. From the food we feed
them to the devices they look at to the
negative news, the polarization
of the news, it's that sort of chronic
cortisol and then the separation. Oh,
you voted this way or you voted that
way. Saw something TV this morning. If
somebody voted one way, well, you
shouldn't spend time with them. I'm
like, we're already so lonely that now
you're gonna cut off 50% of the
population. It's like, it's just such
stupidity. Do you think much about the
the impact that religion and having a
belief in some kind of transcendent
thing has on the brain and psychology
and psychiatry generally.
>> So, if you don't believe in God, you're
three times the risk of depression.
could be God in different ways,
>> something transcendent or >> Yes.
>> Yes.
If you believe you're here by if just
think about it with me. If you believe
you're just here by random chance that
life really was not created and has no
meaning, there's existential
nothingness to that
as opposed to, oh no, I'm created in a
special way to do something purposeful
on Earth. There's purposeful people live
longer. They're happier. Now, whatever version
version
you believe
to not believe is hard for the brain.
And there's an interesting study on
believers versus non-believers. And you
know, many scientists would go, well,
they'll have smaller brains if they're a
believer. They actually had bigger
temporal loes. And temporal loes
underneath your temples and behind your eyes
eyes
right here. Um,
that's where it's called the God area
because of that's where people think they experience
they experience >> and if you have a seizure in the
>> and if you have a seizure in the temporal lobe, you have transcendent
temporal lobe, you have transcendent experiences like you're uh obs, you
experiences like you're uh obs, you know, in the presence of God
know, in the presence of God >> and they think maybe the Apostle Paul on
>> and they think maybe the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus had a seizure and
the road to Damascus had a seizure and saw God. There's actually a researcher
saw God. There's actually a researcher in Canada, uh, Laurentian University,
in Canada, uh, Laurentian University, Michael Persinger. So, he would
Michael Persinger. So, he would stimulate the outside. He he would do it
stimulate the outside. He he would do it all over the brain. But what he found,
all over the brain. But what he found, he stimulated the outside of the right
he stimulated the outside of the right temporal lobe that people would get a
temporal lobe that people would get a sensed presence. They would actually
sensed presence. They would actually feel the presence of God in the room.
feel the presence of God in the room. So, does that mean the brain makes up
So, does that mean the brain makes up God or does that mean there's a way for
God or does that mean there's a way for God to communicate with us? I actually
God to communicate with us? I actually did a study on prayer was so
did a study on prayer was so interesting. You know, I pray for you.
interesting. You know, I pray for you. Uh prophecy, something called speaking
Uh prophecy, something called speaking in tonesues, and it was fascinating.
in tonesues, and it was fascinating. Speaking in tonesues is channeling,
Speaking in tonesues is channeling, which means you're channeling the Holy
which means you're channeling the Holy Spirit. And the hypothesis was you'd
Spirit. And the hypothesis was you'd have to drop your frontal loes, which is
have to drop your frontal loes, which is exactly what happened in 60%
exactly what happened in 60% of our patients. And one basil ganglia
of our patients. And one basil ganglia skyrocketed just like got hit with
skyrocketed just like got hit with cocaine cuz that's where cocaine works
cocaine cuz that's where cocaine works in the basil ganglia. Uh so interesting.
in the basil ganglia. Uh so interesting. If you had to create a brainhealthy
If you had to create a brainhealthy nation and I made you president of the
nation and I made you president of the United States for one month and you had
United States for one month and you had to put in place executive orders that
to put in place executive orders that would create a brain healthy nation,
would create a brain healthy nation, what executive orders would you
what executive orders would you immediately sign?
immediately sign? >> One question.
>> One question. Get all of the departments to ask
Get all of the departments to ask themselves what we're doing. Is this
themselves what we're doing. Is this good for our brands or bad for it? And I
good for our brands or bad for it? And I that's the campaign. I mean, I realize
that's the campaign. I mean, I realize I've been doing this a very long time.
I've been doing this a very long time. If I can just get people to answer that
If I can just get people to answer that one question with information
one question with information and love, love of themselves, love of
and love, love of themselves, love of their families, love of their country.
their families, love of their country. Is this is what we're doing good for our
Is this is what we're doing good for our brains or bad for it?
brains or bad for it? >> By far the best drug you can take for
>> By far the best drug you can take for your brain and not just your brain, but
your brain and not just your brain, but your entire body is exercise.
your entire body is exercise. In other words,
In other words, exercise, you pump the blood and your
exercise, you pump the blood and your brain gets uh you know, a lot of uh
brain gets uh you know, a lot of uh nutrients and everything. Uh it helps
nutrients and everything. Uh it helps your heart. It helps your immune system.
your heart. It helps your immune system. People don't realize how important that
People don't realize how important that is. And we're not talking about being an
is. And we're not talking about being an athlete. We're just talking about
athlete. We're just talking about walking. If you're older, walking is
walking. If you're older, walking is perfectly good exercise. And and you
perfectly good exercise. And and you know, children now I you know, they're
know, children now I you know, they're they're not getting enough exercise.
they're not getting enough exercise. >> No. Because they're on devices.
>> No. Because they're on devices. >> Yeah. And so I have a model. If you want
>> Yeah. And so I have a model. If you want to keep your brain healthy or rescue it,
to keep your brain healthy or rescue it, you have to prevent or treat the 11
you have to prevent or treat the 11 major risk factors. And we've talked
major risk factors. And we've talked about them before.
about them before. Exercise helps you with every single
Exercise helps you with every single one. So like it's called bright minds.
one. So like it's called bright minds. So B is for blood flow, increases blood
So B is for blood flow, increases blood flow. Retirement and aging. It decreases
flow. Retirement and aging. It decreases your age. I is inflammation. It's
your age. I is inflammation. It's anti-inflammatory. G is genetics. It
anti-inflammatory. G is genetics. It helps turn on healthpromoting
helps turn on healthpromoting genes.
genes. H is head trauma. If you keep walking,
H is head trauma. If you keep walking, you're less likely to fall when you're
you're less likely to fall when you're older, right? T is toxins. Sweat
older, right? T is toxins. Sweat detoxifies you. M is mental health.
detoxifies you. M is mental health. Exercise boosts dopamine, but it also
Exercise boosts dopamine, but it also boosts serotonin. So, it's like that
boosts serotonin. So, it's like that perfect balancer in your brain.
perfect balancer in your brain. >> Breathing, how we breathe, does that
>> Breathing, how we breathe, does that have an impact on brain health? So you
have an impact on brain health? So you can almost immediately improve heart
can almost immediately improve heart rate variability which is a sign of
rate variability which is a sign of heart health but also goes to mental
heart health but also goes to mental health by breathing in a certain helpful
health by breathing in a certain helpful way. And I call it the 15-second breath.
way. And I call it the 15-second breath. So 4 seconds in big breath hold it for a
So 4 seconds in big breath hold it for a second and a half pause just a little
second and a half pause just a little bit. 8 seconds out hold it for a second
bit. 8 seconds out hold it for a second and a half. So if you take twice as long
and a half. So if you take twice as long to breathe out as you breathe in, it
to breathe out as you breathe in, it increases something called
increases something called parasympathetic tone and it just calms
parasympathetic tone and it just calms you down almost immediately. So if
you down almost immediately. So if you're having panic attacks, yes, you
you're having panic attacks, yes, you can take Xanax, but there's so many
can take Xanax, but there's so many problems with that later on. Or you can
problems with that later on. Or you can just learn how to breathe. We call it
just learn how to breathe. We call it diaphragmatic. So breathe mostly with
diaphragmatic. So breathe mostly with your belly, taking twice as long to
your belly, taking twice as long to breathe out as you breathe in.
breathe out as you breathe in. >> Chewing. Uh there's a piece here that
>> Chewing. Uh there's a piece here that says it stimulates hippocample activity
says it stimulates hippocample activity and may slow cognitive decline. Reducing
and may slow cognitive decline. Reducing chewing has been linked to impaired
chewing has been linked to impaired learning in animal studies.
learning in animal studies. >> And fast food decreases chewing because
>> And fast food decreases chewing because it's fast. So they take most of the
it's fast. So they take most of the fiber out so you can chew it faster. You
fiber out so you can chew it faster. You can swallow it faster.
can swallow it faster. >> Things in the bad for your brain list.
>> Things in the bad for your brain list. Overuse of GPS and navigation app which
Overuse of GPS and navigation app which weakens the hippocampus by outsourcing
weakens the hippocampus by outsourcing spatial memory long term. This can lead
spatial memory long term. This can lead to atrophy in areas associated with
to atrophy in areas associated with memory navigation. And people are
memory navigation. And people are diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease later
diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease later in life because of Siri. Because I used
in life because of Siri. Because I used to like when I started as a young
to like when I started as a young psychiatrist, somebody get lost in a
psychiatrist, somebody get lost in a city they'd lived in for 30 years and
city they'd lived in for 30 years and their family would call me upset and I'm
their family would call me upset and I'm like, "Okay, this person's headed toward
like, "Okay, this person's headed toward dementia." Now that person goes, "Take
dementia." Now that person goes, "Take me home." Do you think it's going to
me home." Do you think it's going to we're going to have an epigenetic
we're going to have an epigenetic effect of not reading maps that if
effect of not reading maps that if Stephen now he uses his phone to get
Stephen now he uses his phone to get from A to B, do you think that's going
from A to B, do you think that's going to affect Steven's son or daughter
to affect Steven's son or daughter because dad
because dad didn't have
didn't have >> Wow. Okay. That that that never occurred
>> Wow. Okay. That that that never occurred to me that uh you could pass on
to me that uh you could pass on something like that. By the way, I I
something like that. By the way, I I think it has to be physiological.
think it has to be physiological. Stress, for example, could be probably
Stress, for example, could be probably passed on. And you mentioned this, you
passed on. And you mentioned this, you you pointed out during pregnancy, you
you pointed out during pregnancy, you you want to prevent stress and and
you want to prevent stress and and crisis, right?
crisis, right? >> Do do you know about that study with
>> Do do you know about that study with mice where they made them afraid of the
mice where they made them afraid of the scent of cherry blossoms from memory?
scent of cherry blossoms from memory? And so whenever the mice smelled cherry
And so whenever the mice smelled cherry blossoms, they would shock them mildly.
blossoms, they would shock them mildly. So the mice are now afraid of the scent
So the mice are now afraid of the scent of cherry blossoms. Their babies were
of cherry blossoms. Their babies were afraid of the scent of cherry blossoms.
afraid of the scent of cherry blossoms. Their grandbabies were afraid of the
Their grandbabies were afraid of the scent of cherry blossoms. So,
scent of cherry blossoms. So, >> okay, that's the alactory system.
>> okay, that's the alactory system. Alactory system is very interesting
Alactory system is very interesting because it goes directly to the
because it goes directly to the hippocampus.
hippocampus. There might be a evolutionary advantage
There might be a evolutionary advantage because if if there's something in the
because if if there's something in the environment that you shouldn't eat or
environment that you shouldn't eat or you know that smells a particular way,
you know that smells a particular way, passing that on is is very efficient
passing that on is is very efficient instead of having to experience that
instead of having to experience that yourself. you know, trial and error
yourself. you know, trial and error because they might if the poison is
because they might if the poison is right, it might kill you. But if if
right, it might kill you. But if if you've your parents
you've your parents ha had that bad experience and pass it
ha had that bad experience and pass it on, you shouldn't go to something that
on, you shouldn't go to something that smells in a particular way. That makes
smells in a particular way. That makes sense.
sense. >> The other thing that's bad for the
>> The other thing that's bad for the brain, which is unexpected, is you said
brain, which is unexpected, is you said at the start, artificial sweeteners.
at the start, artificial sweeteners. Now, I didn't I thought artificial
Now, I didn't I thought artificial sweeteners were fine.
sweeteners were fine. >> They're not fun and they're not free.
>> They're not fun and they're not free. So, I used to drink diet soda like it
So, I used to drink diet soda like it was my best friend because I thought it
was my best friend because I thought it was free. And then I had arthritis when
was free. And then I had arthritis when I was 35. And one of my patients said
I was 35. And one of my patients said she stopped aspartame and her arthritis
she stopped aspartame and her arthritis went away. And I'm like, I was drinking
went away. And I'm like, I was drinking like I don't know, a lot of diet soda.
like I don't know, a lot of diet soda. And so I stopped and my arthritis went
And so I stopped and my arthritis went away. And I'm like, no. And so I did it
away. And I'm like, no. And so I did it again and it came back. And I'm like,
again and it came back. And I'm like, okay. And artificial sweeteners can
okay. And artificial sweeteners can change the microbiome. So we haven't
change the microbiome. So we haven't talked about that, but you have these
talked about that, but you have these 100 trillion bugs in your gut that make
100 trillion bugs in your gut that make neurotransmitters digest your food and
neurotransmitters digest your food and especially sucralose or splenda has been
especially sucralose or splenda has been found to decrease the good bacteria in
found to decrease the good bacteria in your gut which then has a negative
your gut which then has a negative impact on brain function
impact on brain function >> and a spartame as you mentioned
>> and a spartame as you mentioned >> and a spartamement that I mentioned that
>> and a spartamement that I mentioned that can have a generational impact. So, is
can have a generational impact. So, is it possible it's really not social
it possible it's really not social media? It's that we've had aspartame in
media? It's that we've had aspartame in our food for decades. And I think it's
our food for decades. And I think it's all of these things that just sort of
all of these things that just sort of are additive and we should just always
are additive and we should just always think that that one question. Is this
think that that one question. Is this good for my brain or bad for it? So, you
good for my brain or bad for it? So, you mentioned broccoli. Probably that's good
mentioned broccoli. Probably that's good for your brain. Cheeseburger, probably
for your brain. Cheeseburger, probably not. But why don't you take the burger
not. But why don't you take the burger and if you could make it grass-fed that
and if you could make it grass-fed that would be better and put it in a salad
would be better and put it in a salad and then that would be good for your
and then that would be good for your brain.
brain. >> What about chronic background noise?
>> What about chronic background noise? We don't think much about the impact
We don't think much about the impact noise has. But
noise has. But >> I used to live um my house was three
>> I used to live um my house was three houses from the freeway and if you just
houses from the freeway and if you just go there it's like my god it's so loud
go there it's like my god it's so loud here. I never heard the freeway because
here. I never heard the freeway because my brain just learned to tune it out.
my brain just learned to tune it out. Was that good or bad for you
Was that good or bad for you >> that I was able
>> that I was able >> you had you adapted and and were no
>> you had you adapted and and were no longer sensitive to it? I I I think that
longer sensitive to it? I I I think that actually was probably not good
actually was probably not good for for v various reasons because it
for for v various reasons because it what it really means is that you you're
what it really means is that you you're you're specializing for that environment
you're specializing for that environment and your brain is going to be different
and your brain is going to be different when you go someplace.
when you go someplace. So, but so here's here's another
So, but so here's here's another example.
example. >> And it's stressful, right? if it's
>> And it's stressful, right? if it's chronically stressful, but my brain is
chronically stressful, but my brain is >> That's right. That's right. In the
>> That's right. That's right. In the background. In the In other words, Yeah.
background. In the In other words, Yeah. In other words, your your brain is
In other words, your your brain is reacting to it even though you're not
reacting to it even though you're not aware of it. Yeah.
aware of it. Yeah. >> So, subtly five sisters, which makes it
>> So, subtly five sisters, which makes it even worse.
even worse. >> Subtly increases cortisol and impairs
>> Subtly increases cortisol and impairs working memory and attention regulation,
working memory and attention regulation, especially in children and older adults,
especially in children and older adults, to be chronically exposed to background
to be chronically exposed to background noise like traffic or the lowle hum of a
noise like traffic or the lowle hum of a city.
city. >> Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely
>> Yeah, that's right. That's absolutely right.
right. >> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say
>> Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you
to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a
to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is
CEO. Welcome to my inner circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm
a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many
launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you
incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that
are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the
are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never
conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behindthe-scenes
released. We have behindthe-scenes conversations with the guest and also
conversations with the guest and also the episodes that we've never ever
the episodes that we've never ever released. And so much more. In the
released. And so much more. In the circle, you'll have direct access to me.
circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show
You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and
to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would
the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now,
love us to have. But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000
we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So,
people that join before it closes. So, if you want to join our private closed
if you want to join our private closed community, head to the link in the
community, head to the link in the description below or go to
description below or go to daccircle.com.
I will speak to you there. Many of us multitask across multiple screens now.
multitask across multiple screens now. We're watching TV here. We've got our
We're watching TV here. We've got our phone here. We've got our iPad here. Got
phone here. We've got our iPad here. Got our computer here. And I was reading
our computer here. And I was reading into the science of multitasking and it
into the science of multitasking and it said that it trains your brain to be
said that it trains your brain to be distractable reducing gray matter
distractable reducing gray matter density in the interior singulate.
density in the interior singulate. >> Yeah, that's you know in the medial
>> Yeah, that's you know in the medial prefrontal cortex.
prefrontal cortex. >> And when the insula the insula is so
>> And when the insula the insula is so interesting and I know you can talk
interesting and I know you can talk about I have a new study coming out on
about I have a new study coming out on hope. So on 7,500 patients we gave them
hope. So on 7,500 patients we gave them a hope questionnaire.
a hope questionnaire. >> What does that mean?
>> What does that mean? >> Hope questionnaire. hope. Like how much
>> Hope questionnaire. hope. Like how much hope do you have that you have the
hope do you have that you have the ability to make tomorrow better?
ability to make tomorrow better? >> And people with low hope have lower
>> And people with low hope have lower overall prefrontal cortex function, but
overall prefrontal cortex function, but the insular
the insular was really low. And that signal was the
was really low. And that signal was the most statistically significant of the
most statistically significant of the group really. And in some studies the
group really. And in some studies the insulin is called
insulin is called >> by the way uh also uh for depression
>> by the way uh also uh for depression people who have depression
people who have depression uh have low activity in the anterior
uh have low activity in the anterior singulate. In fact um it deep brain
singulate. In fact um it deep brain stimulation has been used now for to
stimulation has been used now for to help some people if you stimulate that
help some people if you stimulate that area
area >> and what our imaging research would say
>> and what our imaging research would say is depression is like chest pain. It's
is depression is like chest pain. It's not one thing like nobody gets a
not one thing like nobody gets a diagnosis of chest pain because that
diagnosis of chest pain because that would be stupid right? It could be heart
would be stupid right? It could be heart attack, heart arrhythmia, heart
attack, heart arrhythmia, heart infection, gas, grief. Depression's the
infection, gas, grief. Depression's the same way when you look at it from an
same way when you look at it from an imaging standpoint. Sometimes their
imaging standpoint. Sometimes their frontal loes are too active. Sometimes
frontal loes are too active. Sometimes they're not active enough. Sometimes
they're not active enough. Sometimes it's their lyic system that's too
it's their lyic system that's too active. And I wrote a book called
active. And I wrote a book called Healing Anxiety and Depression. I'm
Healing Anxiety and Depression. I'm like, here's the seven things I see as
like, here's the seven things I see as an imager.
an imager. >> What about ADHD? There's obviously been
>> What about ADHD? There's obviously been a rise in ADHD or at least people
a rise in ADHD or at least people reporting or being diagnosed with ADHD
reporting or being diagnosed with ADHD quite significant.
quite significant. Can you find ADHD in the brain? Are we
Can you find ADHD in the brain? Are we causing ADHD as a function of the way
causing ADHD as a function of the way that we're living our lives or is it
that we're living our lives or is it something within the brain genetically
something within the brain genetically that I could I could see?
that I could I could see? >> So, it's both. I think clearly you can
>> So, it's both. I think clearly you can see ADHD in people's families. In fact,
see ADHD in people's families. In fact, if I have a hyperactive, restless,
if I have a hyperactive, restless, impulsive, disorganized, procrastinating
impulsive, disorganized, procrastinating child, I'm looking at the mom and the
child, I'm looking at the mom and the dad. I'm like, "So, where is this coming
dad. I'm like, "So, where is this coming from?" But you could also get ADHD from
from?" But you could also get ADHD from a head injury, especially if it infects
a head injury, especially if it infects their frontal loes, which is why you
their frontal loes, which is why you shouldn't let children hit soccer balls
shouldn't let children hit soccer balls with their forehead. You can also get it
with their forehead. You can also get it from the chronic from the excessive
from the chronic from the excessive input making people distracted just like
input making people distracted just like you said. Brand new study out on
you said. Brand new study out on children who took medicine. Right. We
children who took medicine. Right. We always demonize ADHD medicine, but the
always demonize ADHD medicine, but the kids who took medicine actually had
kids who took medicine actually had bigger brains in their prefrontal cortex
bigger brains in their prefrontal cortex than kids who didn't take medicine who
than kids who didn't take medicine who had AD.
had AD. >> Rolin.
>> Rolin. >> Rolin. That that's okay. It's speed
>> Rolin. That that's okay. It's speed basically. Yeah. Inetamines
basically. Yeah. Inetamines >> it is. But for the kids who have it, I
>> it is. But for the kids who have it, I think withholding medicine
think withholding medicine from a child who really has ADHD is like
from a child who really has ADHD is like withholding glasses from someone who has
withholding glasses from someone who has trouble seeing. And it's it's the easy
trouble seeing. And it's it's the easy thing to demonize the drugs until you
thing to demonize the drugs until you realize someone who has ADHD,
realize someone who has ADHD, a third of them don't finish high
a third of them don't finish high school. And We're never asked the right
school. And We're never asked the right question about people go what's the side
question about people go what's the side effects and it's it can decrease your
effects and it's it can decrease your appetite and it can can have sleep
appetite and it can can have sleep problems with it but they don't ask the
problems with it but they don't ask the other question is what's the side effect
other question is what's the side effect of not taking the medicine or at least
of not taking the medicine or at least not fully treating and there are other
not fully treating and there are other ways to treat it besides medicine you
ways to treat it besides medicine you know for god's sakes I own a supplement
know for god's sakes I own a supplement company and I'm always trying to
company and I'm always trying to optimize the nutrients to the brain
optimize the nutrients to the brain neuro feedback can help. But if you do
neuro feedback can help. But if you do those things and it's not working, don't
those things and it's not working, don't be afraid of medicine.
be afraid of medicine. >> By the way, when I was growing up, ADHD
>> By the way, when I was growing up, ADHD either didn't exist or they didn't know
either didn't exist or they didn't know about it. Do do you think that there's
about it. Do do you think that there's some link to our diet?
some link to our diet? >> Oh, no. It was first described in around
>> Oh, no. It was first described in around 1910 and it's in the first version of
1910 and it's in the first version of the DSM.
the DSM. Um, they called it minimal brain
Um, they called it minimal brain dysfunction.
dysfunction. But when we were growing up, there were
But when we were growing up, there were one of two of these kids in our
one of two of these kids in our classrooms and now there's 8 to 10.
classrooms and now there's 8 to 10. >> That's what I mean is is that it's uh
>> That's what I mean is is that it's uh seems to like autism. It's uh seems to
seems to like autism. It's uh seems to be proliferating,
be proliferating, >> right? And part of it, I think, is the
>> right? And part of it, I think, is the food that is much more processed. Part
food that is much more processed. Part of it is the screens, part of it is the
of it is the screens, part of it is the distracted parents, and part of it is
distracted parents, and part of it is the teaching.
the teaching. >> You always seem to be doing new studies,
>> You always seem to be doing new studies, Daniel. What what new studies are you
Daniel. What what new studies are you most excited about or have you completed
most excited about or have you completed since we last spoke?
since we last spoke? >> I did one that I'm so excited about on
>> I did one that I'm so excited about on negativity and the brain
negativity and the brain >> and negativity is bad for your brain.
>> and negativity is bad for your brain. So,
So, >> how do you define negativity?
>> how do you define negativity? >> We actually give them a questionnaire.
>> We actually give them a questionnaire. uh it's a positivity negativity bias
uh it's a positivity negativity bias questionnaire and people who are more
questionnaire and people who are more negative have less activity in their
negative have less activity in their prefrontal cortex. It's actually quite
prefrontal cortex. It's actually quite interesting and so
interesting and so unbridled
unbridled positivity is bad for you because you
positivity is bad for you because you need that 15% but if you're chronically
need that 15% but if you're chronically negative that is bad for your brain. Is
negative that is bad for your brain. Is there a link between being a negative
there a link between being a negative person and Alzheimer's and dementia?
person and Alzheimer's and dementia? >> Yes. And what's interesting because you
>> Yes. And what's interesting because you mentioned a gender difference earlier.
mentioned a gender difference earlier. Um, if you're depressed and you're a
Um, if you're depressed and you're a woman, it doubles your risk for
woman, it doubles your risk for Alzheimer's disease. If you're depressed
Alzheimer's disease. If you're depressed and you're a man, it quadruples your
and you're a man, it quadruples your risk.
risk. >> Wow. So there was a study was done
>> Wow. So there was a study was done during the COVID years, a couple years
during the COVID years, a couple years and it turns out that the uh rate of
and it turns out that the uh rate of depression like doubled in women but not
depression like doubled in women but not in men
in men >> during CO
>> during CO >> during CO and after CO when students
>> during CO and after CO when students came back and everybody was back to
came back and everybody was back to normal so-called normal the women stayed
normal so-called normal the women stayed depressed
depressed at that high level which is very is very
at that high level which is very is very interesting that it should be the women
interesting that it should be the women who
who >> so in one study women had 52% less
>> so in one study women had 52% less serotonin than men which I think is
serotonin than men which I think is really interesting. Women by and large
really interesting. Women by and large have double double the risk depression.
have double double the risk depression. Women have double the risk of depression
Women have double the risk of depression as men their lyic systems are larger
as men their lyic systems are larger which is also probably
which is also probably >> more vulnerable and bonding and then the
>> more vulnerable and bonding and then the whole CO thing we haven't talked about
whole CO thing we haven't talked about CO causes inflammation in the lyic part
CO causes inflammation in the lyic part of the brain. I had scans of people I
of the brain. I had scans of people I was treating
was treating and then they got CO and then I scan
and then they got CO and then I scan them again and you can just see this
them again and you can just see this dramatic inflammation in the brain. If
dramatic inflammation in the brain. If someone's listening now and they just
someone's listening now and they just want to they want to improve their brain
want to they want to improve their brain health. They want to avoid dementia.
health. They want to avoid dementia. They want to be cognitively
They want to be cognitively powerful and capable as they age. They
powerful and capable as they age. They want to get to 80 years old, 90 years
want to get to 80 years old, 90 years old, 100 years old and have a great
old, 100 years old and have a great brain. And you just had to and you could
brain. And you just had to and you could only tell them to do three things.
only tell them to do three things. >> Well, Terry said one, exercise.
>> Well, Terry said one, exercise. >> Okay, exercise. I'm going to do it.
>> Okay, exercise. I'm going to do it. >> Start every day with today is going to
>> Start every day with today is going to be a great day.
be a great day. >> Push your brain to look for what's right
>> Push your brain to look for what's right rather than what's wrong.
rather than what's wrong. >> Okay. So, I'm going to be optimistic and
>> Okay. So, I'm going to be optimistic and grateful.
grateful. >> Omega-3 fatty acids
>> Omega-3 fatty acids >> and either do it with fish or do it with
>> and either do it with fish or do it with a supplement.
a supplement. >> Why did you include omega-3 fatty acids?
>> Why did you include omega-3 fatty acids? because it decreases
because it decreases inflammation. And 25%
inflammation. And 25% of the cell membranes in your brain are
of the cell membranes in your brain are made up of omega-3 fatty acids. And as a
made up of omega-3 fatty acids. And as a country, we're dramatically low on them.
country, we're dramatically low on them. >> And learning, that's maybe one of the
>> And learning, that's maybe one of the things that's been left off the list of
things that's been left off the list of top three things. But I mean, I remember
top three things. But I mean, I remember you telling me that how good learning
you telling me that how good learning was for the brain. And even getting
was for the brain. And even getting outside and running outside versus
outside and running outside versus running on a treadmill is more
running on a treadmill is more beneficial. And if you learn while
beneficial. And if you learn while you're exercising, what you're doing is
you're exercising, what you're doing is you're getting blood flow to the
you're getting blood flow to the hippocampus and you're more likely to
hippocampus and you're more likely to remember it. So,
remember it. So, >> I heard this. Yeah, I heard someone tell
>> I heard this. Yeah, I heard someone tell me that they um figured out that they
me that they um figured out that they could learn better for their exams if
could learn better for their exams if they did it in a sauna.
they did it in a sauna. So, they kept it was a scientist that I
So, they kept it was a scientist that I spoke to. She said she keeps learning
spoke to. She said she keeps learning new information when she's in the sauna
new information when she's in the sauna cuz she realized that when she left the
cuz she realized that when she left the sauna and was then tested upon on it,
sauna and was then tested upon on it, she was better able to uh do the exam.
she was better able to uh do the exam. And I guess that's correlating to what
And I guess that's correlating to what you said about because in a sauna you're
you said about because in a sauna you're going to have a lot of blood flow, I
going to have a lot of blood flow, I imagine to the brain.
imagine to the brain. >> Yes. There's actually a study in Jamama
>> Yes. There's actually a study in Jamama psychiatry that one sauna
psychiatry that one sauna bath
bath helped depression significantly helped
helped depression significantly helped depression.
depression. And I think it's because of it's
And I think it's because of it's balancing the brain and people who do
balancing the brain and people who do the most sinus have the lowest risk of
the most sinus have the lowest risk of Alzheimer's disease.
Alzheimer's disease. >> What is the most important thing as it
>> What is the most important thing as it relates to the subjects that we spoke
relates to the subjects that we spoke about today? AI, the brain, neuroscience
about today? AI, the brain, neuroscience that you would like to say to the the
that you would like to say to the the people that are listening now. There
people that are listening now. There could be a million people listening.
could be a million people listening. There could be 20 million people
There could be 20 million people listening. If you could say one thing to
listening. If you could say one thing to them about the brain, AI, neuroscience,
them about the brain, AI, neuroscience, whatever you want to say, the floor is
whatever you want to say, the floor is yours. What would that be?
yours. What would that be? Over to you first, Terry.
Over to you first, Terry. >> Sleep. Sleep is a time when the body not
>> Sleep. Sleep is a time when the body not just regenerates, but your memory is
just regenerates, but your memory is consolidated. So things you've
consolidated. So things you've experienced during the day are
experienced during the day are integrated into your cortex and it's an
integrated into your cortex and it's an interaction between hippocampus and the
interaction between hippocampus and the cortex for, you know, for for episodic
cortex for, you know, for for episodic memories. and and and it's unfortunate
memories. and and and it's unfortunate what's happening with children now, you
what's happening with children now, you know, is they're so competitive to get
know, is they're so competitive to get into college that they're cutting back
into college that they're cutting back on their sleep and it's just the wrong
on their sleep and it's just the wrong time of your life. You shouldn't be
time of your life. You shouldn't be cutting it back when your brain is is
cutting it back when your brain is is developing. So, those two things I would
developing. So, those two things I would say sleep and exercise is the most
say sleep and exercise is the most important thing for your brain. The
important thing for your brain. The floor is yours. What would you say to
floor is yours. What would you say to the listeners about all the things we've
the listeners about all the things we've talked today? What's your closing
talked today? What's your closing closing statement?
closing statement? Well, you know, I go back to what I
Well, you know, I go back to what I talked about in the beginning, which is
talked about in the beginning, which is we've just thrown the barn door open and
we've just thrown the barn door open and let the horse bolt out into our schools,
let the horse bolt out into our schools, into our businesses, into our homes.
into our businesses, into our homes. And before we've even asked, is it a
And before we've even asked, is it a gift or is it a Trojan horse that's
gift or is it a Trojan horse that's going to steal from us, we've embraced
going to steal from us, we've embraced convenience before understanding
convenience before understanding consequence. And we've done it before
consequence. And we've done it before with video games and cell phones and
with video games and cell phones and social media and marijuana and alcohol
social media and marijuana and alcohol and opiates and high fructose corn syrup
and opiates and high fructose corn syrup and aspartame. And we have to be
and aspartame. And we have to be smarter. We have to tame this horse. is
smarter. We have to tame this horse. is gone with wisdom or it's going to
gone with wisdom or it's going to trample our children. And so I think we
trample our children. And so I think we have to be very thoughtful and it all
have to be very thoughtful and it all comes back down to is this good for my
comes back down to is this good for my brain or bad for it? Is it good for our
brain or bad for it? Is it good for our collective brains or is it potentially
collective brains or is it potentially bad for it? And just answer that
bad for it? And just answer that question with information and love of
question with information and love of yourself, of your family, of your
yourself, of your family, of your country, community.
Yeah, more anxious than when I came in. I don't like that.
I don't like that. It is It's I'm just It's so front of
It is It's I'm just It's so front of mind for me at the moment because I have
mind for me at the moment because I have the hindsight, the wisdom of hindsight
the hindsight, the wisdom of hindsight of all those things you mentioned like
of all those things you mentioned like exercise and processed foods and social
exercise and processed foods and social media and all these things that we tried
media and all these things that we tried and they all seem to follow a similar
and they all seem to follow a similar arc. Some kind of new product or
arc. Some kind of new product or discovery is made. the early phase. In
discovery is made. the early phase. In the early phase, people who have an
the early phase, people who have an incentive for that thing to be
incentive for that thing to be successful will somewhat like gaslight
successful will somewhat like gaslight you into thinking that it's fine. And
you into thinking that it's fine. And then we get into the second phase where
then we get into the second phase where we start to see sort of some
we start to see sort of some consequences. Then we study what's
consequences. Then we study what's actually happened. We figure out that
actually happened. We figure out that there's there was always a trade-off and
there's there was always a trade-off and that nobody really understood the
that nobody really understood the trade-off and then people change their
trade-off and then people change their behavior. So now when I go into these
behavior. So now when I go into these new technologies where the shortterm
new technologies where the shortterm benefit is really clear it's making me
benefit is really clear it's making me more productive. I I pause and I go
more productive. I I pause and I go there's going to be a trade-off here.
there's going to be a trade-off here. There's always a trade-off. What is the
There's always a trade-off. What is the trade-off? And am I comfortable and
trade-off? And am I comfortable and conscious of what that trade-off is? And
conscious of what that trade-off is? And if if the trade-off so I try to figure
if if the trade-off so I try to figure out what the trade-off is with things
out what the trade-off is with things like AI and I okay the trade-off is
like AI and I okay the trade-off is probably I'm going to be worse at
probably I'm going to be worse at critical thinking
critical thinking that might have an impact to my social
that might have an impact to my social relationships if I fall in love with
relationships if I fall in love with [ __ ] Annie cuz she's pretty hot to be
[ __ ] Annie cuz she's pretty hot to be fair.
fair. And I really value my critical thinking.
And I really value my critical thinking. I really value my ability to um solve
I really value my ability to um solve problems and to articulate myself and to
problems and to articulate myself and to write and to communicate with my loved
write and to communicate with my loved ones in an effective way. So what can I
ones in an effective way. So what can I do if that is the trade-off now? And one
do if that is the trade-off now? And one of the things that I'm doing now feels
of the things that I'm doing now feels really counterintuitive in a world where
really counterintuitive in a world where everybody's got these productivity gains
everybody's got these productivity gains because they're using these tools, which
because they're using these tools, which is to refrain. And I I wonder if one of
is to refrain. And I I wonder if one of the great advantages of the next decade,
the great advantages of the next decade, one of the great hedges for anyone
one of the great hedges for anyone that's wanting to be a great critical
that's wanting to be a great critical thinker, entrepreneur, creative, is to
thinker, entrepreneur, creative, is to go left when everyone's going right,
go left when everyone's going right, which is to reframe and do it the hard
which is to reframe and do it the hard way. And if we look at history in these
way. And if we look at history in these arcs that we've discovered with food and
arcs that we've discovered with food and with exercise and all these things and
with exercise and all these things and dating, doing it the hard way, like we
dating, doing it the hard way, like we said about the marshmallow test and
said about the marshmallow test and delaying the gratification seems to
delaying the gratification seems to yield the greatest returns. So I think
yield the greatest returns. So I think I'm going to do it the hard way
I'm going to do it the hard way >> be the easiest because it won't have the
>> be the easiest because it won't have the side effects.
side effects. >> Yeah. The hard way. I I want to feel
>> Yeah. The hard way. I I want to feel good now and later as opposed to now but
good now and later as opposed to now but not later.
not later. >> And to be clear, this doesn't mean I'm
>> And to be clear, this doesn't mean I'm not going to use AI or chatbt. It just
not going to use AI or chatbt. It just means that when it matters, when the
means that when it matters, when the thinking matters, I will think for
thinking matters, I will think for myself
myself and when the communication matters, I'll
and when the communication matters, I'll communicate for myself. That's what I
communicate for myself. That's what I that's my conclusion.
that's my conclusion. >> You should hope that your children will
>> You should hope that your children will feel the same way when they grow up.
feel the same way when they grow up. They will model what you do
They will model what you do >> right every day. You model health
>> right every day. You model health or not health.
>> Thank you. Thank you for writing to well many incredible books that I've got
many incredible books that I've got around me. I'm going to link them all
around me. I'm going to link them all for my viewers that are watching. I've
for my viewers that are watching. I've got so many of these books. Um the
got so many of these books. Um the incredible one that you wrote for
incredible one that you wrote for parents called Raising Mentally Strong
parents called Raising Mentally Strong Kids. You've got your other book over
Kids. You've got your other book over there, Change Your Brain Every Day. And
there, Change Your Brain Every Day. And I've got this book here from from Terry
I've got this book here from from Terry which is the deep learning revolution
which is the deep learning revolution and one you wrote most recently called
and one you wrote most recently called trap in the future of AR. I'm going to
trap in the future of AR. I'm going to link all of them below and I'm going to
link all of them below and I'm going to link them with a little bit of a summary
link them with a little bit of a summary of what's in them. So if you decide that
of what's in them. So if you decide that there's anything here that we talked
there's anything here that we talked about today that where you want to dig
about today that where you want to dig in further, please do dig in and I'm
in further, please do dig in and I'm also going to link um both of your a
also going to link um both of your a link to where people can find out more
link to where people can find out more about both of you your websites and more
about both of you your websites and more of your work in the comments below. So
of your work in the comments below. So please do check that out everybody
please do check that out everybody listening. We have a closing tradition
listening. We have a closing tradition where the last guest leaves a question
where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, as you know, and
for the next guest, as you know, and they don't know who they're leaving it
they don't know who they're leaving it for. So, I'm going to ask you both a
for. So, I'm going to ask you both a question, starting with you, Daniel. Are
question, starting with you, Daniel. Are you prepared for recognition of your
you prepared for recognition of your next
next health challenge? Will you be able to
health challenge? Will you be able to notice its onset? And how will you
notice its onset? And how will you address the challenge even if it means a
address the challenge even if it means a major lifestyle change or way of living?
Okay. Yes.
Yes. >> How will you address the challenge even
>> How will you address the challenge even if it means a major lifestyle change or
if it means a major lifestyle change or way of living?
way of living? >> Well, I'm very clear on the goals I
>> Well, I'm very clear on the goals I have, which is to be vibrant and healthy
have, which is to be vibrant and healthy and not get dementia. So, if I need to
and not get dementia. So, if I need to change something so that happens, I'm
change something so that happens, I'm like all in.
like all in. >> Are you prepared? probably not.
>> Are you prepared? probably not. Now, I've been blessed with good health.
Now, I've been blessed with good health. I try to live a healthy life.
I try to live a healthy life. But the problem is that you can't
But the problem is that you can't anticipate, you know, as you get older.
anticipate, you know, as you get older. What you know what's ahead. You know,
What you know what's ahead. You know, like you mentioned arthritis. I'm
like you mentioned arthritis. I'm feeling a little bit of arthritis now.
feeling a little bit of arthritis now. I've been arthritis free for most you
I've been arthritis free for most you all my life. And you know that's
all my life. And you know that's something it's very diff to realize that
something it's very diff to realize that it's coming. There's very little you can
it's coming. There's very little you can do about it is is uh depressing. But on
do about it is is uh depressing. But on the other hand, things could always be
the other hand, things could always be worse. And sometimes that cheers you up.
worse. And sometimes that cheers you up. But the the the the the reality is that
But the the the the the reality is that there are things in the world like
there are things in the world like COVID, you know, that you have no
COVID, you know, that you have no control over that may
control over that may or an accident or Alzheimer's, you know,
or an accident or Alzheimer's, you know, god forbid, you know, that you that who
god forbid, you know, that you that who knows uh what will happen, right? You
knows uh what will happen, right? You you have to live with whatever life
you have to live with whatever life deals with you. you know, the time that
deals with you. you know, the time that you have, you should really spend on uh
you have, you should really spend on uh trying to make it a a healthy life, a a
trying to make it a a healthy life, a a productive life, a you know, satisfying
productive life, a you know, satisfying life. And and that's something that we
life. And and that's something that we have control over, right?
have control over, right? >> What are you scared of?
>> What are you scared of? >> Right now, it's China.
I you know, I I I'm not being facitious. I I think that it's uh it's it's it's
I I think that it's uh it's it's it's it's a threat that is a societal threat.
it's a threat that is a societal threat. It's not I don't think that it's going
It's not I don't think that it's going to affect me. And I've had great Chinese
to affect me. And I've had great Chinese students. And so I I really like I think
students. And so I I really like I think the the Chinese people are different
the the Chinese people are different from what I see as the the country uh
from what I see as the the country uh the the the what they're trying to do,
the the the what they're trying to do, the goals that they're taking.
the goals that they're taking. uh 20 years ago if you look at the um of
uh 20 years ago if you look at the um of all the technical areas in physics and
all the technical areas in physics and chemistry and biology and so forth the
chemistry and biology and so forth the 100 most important advances have been
100 most important advances have been made
made in in 20 years ago was like the
in in 20 years ago was like the Americans had like you know 94 of them
Americans had like you know 94 of them this year it's 74 are Chinese
this year it's 74 are Chinese and that's because they made a huge
and that's because they made a huge investment in science and STEM
investment in science and STEM researchers they they're you know they
researchers they they're you know they they put they poured out a million
they put they poured out a million engineers for to to implement AI
engineers for to to implement AI right
right uh you know they're they're doing the
uh you know they're they're doing the right thing we did that you remember
right thing we did that you remember when the Sputnik uh went over the
when the Sputnik uh went over the Sputnik moment we made a huge investment
Sputnik moment we made a huge investment in STEM in science and engineering and
in STEM in science and engineering and and in education
and in education >> what was the Sputnik moment
>> what was the Sputnik moment >> oh okay 57 when the the Russians put a
>> oh okay 57 when the the Russians put a satellite that went over the US over and
satellite that went over the US over and over again and we didn't we it took us
over again and we didn't we it took us years to put up our own satellite
years to put up our own satellite because we had fallen behind but we that
because we had fallen behind but we that investment we've been living on
investment we've been living on literally you know for the last 60 years
literally you know for the last 60 years and now the the Chinese have done that
and now the the Chinese have done that and and they're going to be advanced and
and and they're going to be advanced and they're going to be way beyond us you
they're going to be way beyond us you know this is you ask me okay uh that
know this is you ask me okay uh that that's something I'm I was I'm very very
that's something I'm I was I'm very very uh disappointed in our country that
uh disappointed in our country that we're we're not in fact we're just doing
we're we're not in fact we're just doing the opposite We're tearing apart science
the opposite We're tearing apart science right now with with the president
right now with with the president administration.
administration. >> What are you scared of, Daniel?
>> What are you scared of, Daniel? >> Losing my wife. That's the most the
>> Losing my wife. That's the most the thing that comes to mind. And when I was
thing that comes to mind. And when I was thinking about China and my
thinking about China and my mother-in-law was a prepper. And
mother-in-law was a prepper. And >> a prepper being someone that's preparing
>> a prepper being someone that's preparing for the end of the world.
for the end of the world. >> Prepared for the end of the world.
>> Prepared for the end of the world. And we were in Egypt last year and got a
And we were in Egypt last year and got a call that she had cancer. And we were
call that she had cancer. And we were there for 3 days and came home and I
there for 3 days and came home and I kept thinking I loved her dearly. I'm
kept thinking I loved her dearly. I'm like, you prepared for the wrong thing.
like, you prepared for the wrong thing. You should have prepared for cancer.
You should have prepared for cancer. Like I think every day we should be and
Like I think every day we should be and the same Alzheimer's prevention program
the same Alzheimer's prevention program is a cancer prevention program. It's a
is a cancer prevention program. It's a heart disease prevention program. It's a
heart disease prevention program. It's a diabetes prevention program. And I'm
diabetes prevention program. And I'm like, she's prepared for the wrong
like, she's prepared for the wrong thing. The thing you really want to be
thing. The thing you really want to be prepared for is disease, right? And I
prepared for is disease, right? And I know I'm going to die. I just want to be
know I'm going to die. I just want to be vital for as long as I can be. And hope
vital for as long as I can be. And hope is well, I have a say in this, right?
is well, I have a say in this, right? Cuz I know I can accelerate
Cuz I know I can accelerate my body's decline or I can decelerate
my body's decline or I can decelerate it. And I'm going to choose to
it. And I'm going to choose to decelerate it.
decelerate it. >> Thank you. We're done.
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